October 24, 2023 • 31 mins
Actress and comedian Sarah Silverman bonds with Brooke over their own parents' "sick" sense of humor, and discusses how her struggle with bedwetting as a kid made her less afraid of bombing onstage. Sarah also talks about the comedy boy’s club of the '90s, the evolution of her own material, and how aging forced her to embrace "the other parts" of herself.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
What do you do when life doesn't go according to
plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told
by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down
with a guest to talk about the times they were
knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
(00:27):
Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all
are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and
every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice
answers one question, Now, what when you started in comedy?
(00:51):
It really and it less so now I think, I mean,
you tell me, but was really a boys club?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yea?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
What personage did you put on to be level with
the boys?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
When I first started stand up, the guys all told
me you have to talk about stuff that guys are interested,
and you can't talk about like the female experience, which
I don't think they put that in those words even,
and they explained they had a very good reason. They said,
because women are there on dates and they will only
(01:24):
laugh if their date lasts, so you have to make
the men laugh. That it has to be your priority,
and I bought into it. I mean, because they were
grown ups.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
In my mind, my guest today is a comedy icon.
She's also an actor, a best selling author, a podcaster,
and so much more. Sarah Silverman has been on the
scene for thirty years, and I suspect many of you
(01:58):
have an opinion about her work and her sense of humor.
Mine is this. I think she is brilliant and I
have watched in admiration as she's done it all. Award
winning stand up specials, her own shows on Comedy Central
and Hulu, dramatic turns in films like I Smile Back,
(02:18):
and Yes, even in musical about Wedding the Bed. Sarah
is insanely talented. She's kind, engaging and generous with her time.
I feel so fortunate that we got to spend some
time together chatting, just one on one, and I'm so
excited for you to hear that conversation. So without further ado,
here is the one and only Sarah Silverman. Thank you
(02:43):
for giving me of your time. Of course, I always
get excited when I know I'm going to get a
chance to see you. Oh my god, even hang out
a little bit I just wanted to ask how you're doing.
I know you have family in Israel.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, they're all alive, and but it's so scary, you know.
I mean, my youngest niece is in the army. I
mean you have to do the army, you know, so
she's still in it and right girding a bass.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's just like, oh my gosh, terrifying. They all have
friends that were murdered. You know. I'm usually pretty good
at compartmentalizing.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, you have, I mean you have to, you have
to anyway. I just I'm my heart and soul is
I just feel I'm putting my version of prayer.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, whatever however that looks to everybody, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
My heart's with you. That's all. The other thing I
also want to start off with, Yeah, you are spectacular
in my strung.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh my gosh, you really.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I mean I'm not surprised. It's like I always get, oh,
I thought you were going to stuck. But you're good.
That's not what I that's not what. I'm not so
prized at your talent. I'm just I was so glad
that you were cast in that part, and it's such
a standout part. I'm so personally attached to that character,
just because I did Wonderful Town on Broadway and I
(04:14):
got to meet I got to meet her actually wow,
when she was still alive, and oh, she just said
Adolph would be so happy.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
But that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think she would have just loved just from the
teeny teeny that I knew her, I think she would
have just loved what you did with the character.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It's a very rare time where Adolph would be so happy.
Is actually a lovely thing to say.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
It's a good thing. Yeah, no, true, But anyway, I
just congratulations on that. And you have a new stand
up special which is on HBO. It's called Sarah Silverman
someone you Love. Yah. But what's weird is I don't
think that was the case with the other ones, but
with this one, I thought it was really interesting that
(05:03):
you you had to create this one on a deadline.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
For h oh. Yeah, I've never done it like that.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
And that's not how it normally works.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
A lot of comics do that. I've never done that.
I've always first of all, for some reason, specials never
occur to me. I never think about the future. I mean,
of course I have the I have anxiety where I
tkle what if, what if? But I never I rarely
have dreams or goals. I just do stand up, you know.
(05:35):
I just never think about it. Like I have friends
that are on their like fourteenth special. Like this last
special was my fourth special. I've been doing stand ups
since I was, you know, seventeen, professionally nineteen. I'm fifty two,
thirty whatever, thirty three years. So this time I had
done a pilot for HBO before, right before the pandemic,
(05:59):
and part of that was a special. The pilot didn't go,
but I still had them a special. But then the
COVID came and then that passed and I just started,
I'm like starting over, like just figuring out what I have,
and they were like, we won our special, you know,
Oh my god. So I like did everything I had
(06:21):
at Largo, and I had thirty six minutes, and of
course not all of it is like stuff I want
to necessarily do, like, you know, So I just booked
the road and rode it on the road and it
was really fun.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, I don't know if this is a source
of constant pressure, but to constantly come up with new
material has got to be both thrilling and a pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, I mean, listen, you know I've been going on
stage saying, listen, my special just came out. I'm starting over,
and I have to be willing to disappoint you. So
basically I'm 'dibly brave right now, you know, Like, but yeah,
you have to, like I mean, and I really I
always like, I always mentioned Chris Rock because he's such
(07:10):
a great example of someone who does a special, murders
it whatever, and then gets back, you know, takes some
time off, gets back out there, walks into the comedy celler.
Everyone goes crazy standing ovation for like four minutes, and
then he starts and he's just trying stuff, and you know,
sometimes it's the audience is just like, oh, you know,
(07:33):
like and he knows that he's going to disappoint them,
and he's not going to do bits that they want
him to do that they know he's just gonna and
if he finds one thing that's like a kernel of something,
it was a success, you know, And you have to
be willing to do that. It's really hard for comics
who are people lasers.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Especially when you get a laugh. The tendency used to
want to get that laugh for us.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You go, I know I have material that can kill,
but I've already done it. I can't go back on
the road, and because people will just supplement what you
don't have that's new with old stuff. You know works,
and that's so smart. But one I don't like my
brain won't remember it. And two my fear is that
I'll figure I'll figure out that joke. Like I did
(08:18):
some shows after I recorded the special, I had still
more dates on the road, and it was so frustrating
because of course, now there's a part of me that's
so loose and so you know, so free with the
material that I figure out the perfect tag or and
that's maddening.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
But there is something that happens when I mean, I've
done shows for six months at a time on Broadway,
and what is quite unbelievable to me is when you
find something that you never knew what's there, even on
the last performance after eight a week for six months,
and to me, that just signifies, oh, it's a live
it's a live, tangible thing. Yeah, just to start a
(08:58):
little bit back in the early days, I think all
parents are extremely formative, but your dad just seems to
be in particular to someone who just was such a
support of yours and really supported you as a comedian.
And I was curious what his sense of humor was like,
and did that shape you at all?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
One hund, I mean, it's I'm such a combination of
him and my mom. You know, it's he's he was
so funny. I mean, I don't know if I told you this,
Like on his deathbed, he Jeff Ross came to visit
because there you know, a lot of people came to
visit him, came to visit him, you know, Oh, it
was pretty amazing. And Jeff Ross, well, first he came
(09:44):
and he said, Schleppie. Everyone calls me Dad, Schleppe Schleppie.
I've got bad news. I don't think you can be
my emergency contact anymore. Theoddy. And then so then he
Jeff introduced my parents to this guy, Bernie Shine, and
they became very good friends with him. That he's a
magician that Jeff is friends with. Of course an older guy,
(10:07):
and so he put him on FaceTime to say like
goodbye to my dad, and my stepmother had just died
a week before, and he said, and her name was Janie,
and he holds the camera and my dad goes, Bernie,
your show was so bad. It killed Janice, And I'm
(10:27):
not feeling so hot either. He was killing on his deathbed.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
My mother used to do this thing where she'd, you know,
she'd see a dog like tied up to a post
or something outside a store or a restaurant or something, and
she'd get down to the dog and she'd say, they're
never coming back. She's so sick. My mother. My mother's
humor was so like it was hysterical. Were there any
(10:56):
other people growing up or comics that really and your comedy?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I mean, my dad was a big one, you know,
because he was very big and funny, and my mother
was kind of covertly funny. And to me, I was
my number one was Steve Martin, you know, I just
worshiped him. As a matter of the house I grew
up in with my mom, I lived, I had a
(11:23):
room in the attic and on the ceiling and pencil
I wrote, I Love Steve Martin and it's still there
all these years later, and they, you know, after my
mom died, my sister sold the house and then I
did a show in Boston like a year later, and
the realtor who sold the house came and he brought
this picture that they had like painted the whole house,
(11:46):
but they kept that one thing on the ceiling where
I lived, where my room was.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You talk about this in your books, and especially in
bed Weather, the brilliant book, you talk about the struggle
that you had with wedding the bed. Now I wet
the bed, but for very different reasons. Now I went
the bed because I'm a fifty eight year old woman
five sneeze in my sleepers. But what do you think
(12:23):
that was? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I don't know. I mean, I went the bed like
deep into my teens, and you know, I think it
was probably emotional. I think also it was physical. Like
I was very small for my age. I looked like
a little kid when I was like a teenager, and
then I turned like seventeen, and all of a sudden,
(12:45):
I had like boobs. But I didn't get my period
until I was almost eighteen. So it's just like I
was little for my age, and then I went, yeah,
like exploded out. You know. It's always funny to me
when I've like dated men who don't know how to
do laundry, because I had to learn at a very
young age, had to wash my sheets and stuff, you know.
But uh, yeah, it was torture. I thought I was
(13:08):
positive it would be the biggest shame of my life.
And of course you know it's not.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
You know, but there were but it didn't happen in
the day, no, like at school or anything. So it's
just just in bed. Well, I I mean, listen, I've
gotten hammered before and and and and pe you know,
woke up and thought I was in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And was funny because the year after I got fired
from Saturday Night Live, I was twenty three and I
went the bed three times that year. Wow. Yeah, And
I want like, I don't know if it was some
kind of like regression or something, but I was in
the I was in a bed. I was in bed
with a man all three times. And there were three
(13:50):
different men.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well, you know, they'll get to know you and then
and then those who stick around, you know, says a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, And actually one of the men was not like
a lover. It was my friend day of Wrath, who
I was just staying with him. And if you didn't
hook up with the girl that night, I would sleep
next to him in bed. Otherwise I'd sleep on the couch.
And this was a long time ago, and so I
but I slept next to him. We went to a
party and you know, and I uh pete and I
(14:22):
woke up and I remember like thinking, oh my god,
I have to tell him. Like if I don't tell
him now, I'm going to be too embarrassed. And I
was just like, Dave, I peed in your bed. He's
you know, such a men. She was like, I just
put a towel down, and I was like, oh, not
that embarrassing for all. I guess.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
How do you how do you think that shaped you
as a kid, having to sort of live with that.
I read a quote where you mentioned that that experience
helped you be less afraid of sort of sucking on
stage exactly. You know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I mean it's like when you suffered that kind of humiliation,
you know, you sleep over this or that, you know,
and you're and you wet your bed wetterre you know,
and you're way too old to be and you're at
that age where kids like break your heart, you know,
(15:19):
like if you're weird. And yeah, like when I started
doing stand up, but you know, the first time I
did a stand up. I was seventeen in those early years,
I sucked, but it didn't deter me because it was
just it could it nothing compares to the humiliation of
being a bedwetting kid, you know, an older kid especially,
(15:42):
so I think it was easy to to persevere for
me like through.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That, and it probably breeds a certain type of resilience
to any type of criticism once you've felt it on
that vis oral level.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, and also just between that and being like this
very hairy Jewish kid in a sea of strawberry blonde
you know, Christians. This is unique to me but completely
ununique to all comedians, which is I think developing skills
at an early age to survive childhood, and those skills
(16:20):
were being funny. I knew how to be funny. I
knew how to get my friend's parents to like me
and not fear me. I mean, it's funny because you know,
you're from New York City, so it's like Jews are
like whatever. I mean, you probably went to so many
bar mitzvahs. I went to zero. I didn't even know
what a bar mitzvah was, you know, Like I was
(16:42):
raised by atheists. The only way we knew we were
Jewish was because we were different from everyone else. Like
my sister, who's now a rabbi, would always say, like,
I thought being Jewish meant being a democrat, because that's
how we were different where we live. And so you learn,
like I have a friend Brian Moses, who's black and
grew up around a lot of white people, and we
both have that thing that was just innate in us
(17:05):
that we didn't realize what it was until looking back
as adults, which is just we knew how to make
our friends' parents not worry about us, not worry about
having their kids with us, to make them realize without
a doubt that we are safe to be around and kind,
and you know, like it was, you know, it was
(17:27):
just kind of a thing that you I knew innately,
but I didn't know intellectually, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I mean I can identify with that only as I
always had to make myself relatable and that was through
hures and making fun of myself and then then I
was not a threat, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I mean you're the example of that, because you were
this baby star and in order to make friends you
must have had to be like, no, I'm just goofy.
I'm just not you know, you know, to or even
to diminish.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yourself completely completely. And I know that you're workshopping currently
the musical version of your memoir.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
And we had a runoff Broadway last spring, and we've
done a workshop since, and then the plan is we're
gonna do an out of town run and then to Broadway.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Are you in it or just no?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
In it?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It is so we don't get to hear your voice
eight times.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
A week, well not your voice, not literally. But I
co wrote it, and I co wrote the book and
the lyrics with brilliant writers. But it's it's it's called
The Bedwetter. And I think some people who went without
knowing what it was just thought it was like the
whole book, or you know, the book covers like into
(18:45):
comedy and you know, from from birth to like you know,
by being a young comic. This is just the year
I'm ten. So there's this this tiny me and a
tiny one sister. I only have one sister in it.
I was like, I had to tell my other sisters,
I'm sorry, you don't exist.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
In this amalgamation of service three sisters. Yeah, I know.
No Chekhov already did that. Have you gotten no offer?
You must have gotten offers to do Broadway shows or
come into shows.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I have and I'd love to, but it just hasn't
been the right Oh.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And it's grueling.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I mean it is, but I've not really loved that.
I mean, you know, I mean I my mom was
a theater director, and you know I love that. I mean,
not on Broadway in New Hampshire, but still.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's funny. My daughter is, my younger one is looking
at colleges and she was looking at n y U.
And it was funny because I said, you know, I
was kind of not lobbying really, but just sort of
you know, the mom thing where one's already gone and
I'm like, how can I keep the other one close by?
Because I'm ameshed. But I was interested around that time
(20:11):
because you dropped out after a year. Yeah, did you
hate it?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I loved it, but I was I was working every
day from four pm to two am, passing out flyers
on the corner of McDougal and West Third, and I
was sleeping through my classes and it was torture. I
was like pinching myself awake. It reminded me of like
sleepovers as a kid, pinging myself awake to try to
(20:36):
so I wentn't went to bed, but I was just like,
I felt horrible and teachers going like, Sarah, are you
you know? Like I couldn't keep my eyes open. It
was horrible. And I was a drama major, which made
me feel so guilty because it's such an expensive school
to be a drama major, Like that's luxurious, you know.
So you know, I was passing out flyers for a
(20:58):
comedy club to get to be able to get time
on stage. So I pat I worked there and I
got paid ten dollars an hour, which was a lot.
So I was making one hundred bucks a day and
then getting on stage. But I was sleeping through school
and so I took a year off to focus on
stand up. My plan to go back was to change
(21:21):
from drama to arts and sciences because I wanted to
get knowledge, you know. So I signed up and then
like three weeks before I started my sophomore year, my
dad called and said, listen, if you drop out and
just focus on you know, what you want to do,
(21:42):
because I you know, I'll pay your rent for the
next three years as if it's your sophomore, junior, senior year.
And so I said, deal, he paid my rent and utilities.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
But what was his end of the deal. Was it like,
but you got to hit it hard and really commit
to this.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Well that was I was. I mean, I know, I
went out with friends. I never every night, I was
at clubs trying to get on every single time. I mean,
it's all I wanted to do. Was that was like
not a commitment. He needed to press me on. I
was all in.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So you did that. What was the first what do
you view as the first sort of real achievement that
you made professionally?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Well, they're allways little ones, like passing at the comic
strip when I was nineteen, you know, and then I got,
you know, to sign up for I got to have
do paid spots. You know, there were ten dollars a spot,
you know. But and then I you know, I got
I became a writer at you know, by the time
I would have been a senior in college where the money,
you know, my dad stopped paying for my rent. I
(22:43):
actually got hired to write for Saturday Night Live, so
I supported myself since I was twenty two. And that
lasted a year, and then I got fired, and I
was shocked. You know, it never occurred to me. I'm
you know, I'm it never occurs to me. I'm going
to get fired. I've been fired many times. Never occurs
(23:05):
to me. It never occurs to me, like a boyfriend
would cheat on me. Never, And that's happened, you know
what I mean. But I kind of prefer living this way,
you know. But it's always a shock. It was always
a shock. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, I call this show now What because it's about
those moments. They're not always bad. I mean sometimes they're
a good now what moment? But those are now what moments?
And how do you How did you internalize that and
continue for it?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Was like I'm I guess I'm not in show business anymore.
I'm just just like I was stunned. I remember just
thinking like, who am I without this? Which is interesting
because that kind of happened in the Double Strike too.
I think with a lot of people recently just like
who am I without this? And that's a scary question
(23:52):
and probably an important question, you know, because I still
feel like, I mean, if so. But what I realized
then was like, well, I'm a stand up, you know.
I just kept my head downe and did stand up,
which is you know something I'm very lucky can be
a constant in my life.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Were you surprised at how shocked people were by your comedy?
At first?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I was because in the household I grew up in,
the comedy was very dark and like hard, you know,
And so when people were shocked by me, there was
a little bit of like what who mey? But there
was some genuine what whomy about it? Like because I
(24:37):
just that really was my experience in my home.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Is there one thing that when you look back at
your comedy and also now that you're especially proud of.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Well, I think I'm proud of like, you know, I'm
proud of all of it. I'm cringey at a lot
of it, you know, I mean, you know, it's comedy
is not evergreens. I haven't seen my first special Jesus
is Magic, but I know that it's problematic on several
levels levels now. But I think I'm proud of the
(25:14):
changing and being brave enough to lose fans, you know,
to get new fans, to just be true to like
whatever I'm into in this moment, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I mean, I think that that's the most important thing
is to be able to pivot. And I also think
that it's so interesting because most, I believe great comics
have to sort of be polarizing. I don't know if
I mean, if you're too vanilla down the center, it's
sort of I don't know. It doesn't comics.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Who are very you could say, like very clean or
very vanilla, that are brilliant because it's authentically them, you know,
I mean Seinfelder, Jim Gaffigan, or people who are like
very clean but brilliantly funny. I mean, there are a
lot of dirty comics that suck, you know, I mean
it's all you know. But but yeah, I mean there's
there's clear.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
About what they're point. Yes, But I mean I think
that that's so those two things I think are always
very close. But I want to ask you the now
walk question again because I am so interested in those like,
oh fuck, now what do I do? And in our
personal lives and why some people go in one direction
(26:32):
and why other people you know, get stagnant or can't.
But it's and I understand the professional ones. Are there
any personal now what moments that stick out for you?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
You know? I will say getting older as a woman,
and also as someone who like in my younger years,
I was like the kid and I was like, you know,
I used my sexual prowess as a you know, it
was a power. It was the power I had, and
(27:05):
you know that goes away when you're not like young
and dumb, and I had to learn all the other
parts of myself, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, Well also it's I mean I used to see
you predominantly just at Gary's basketball games, and I remember
saying to Gary channeling our loved mutual friend who I
met through my husband, who has passed away. But I
remember saying to Gary. When Gary invited me, I said, like,
(27:42):
women don't go, and it was it was funny because
you were the only girl playing with them. And when
you when you started in comedy, it really and it
less so now I think, I mean, you tell me,
but was really a boys club?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It was?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It was boy How did you what personae did you
put on to be level with the boys? You know,
you were like alone.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
When I first started stand up, the guys all told
me you have to talk about stuff that guys are
interested and you can't talk about like the female experience,
which I don't think they put that in that word,
those words even, and they explained they had a very
good reason. They said, because women are there on dates
(28:31):
and they will only laugh if their date laughs, So
you have to make the men laugh that it has
to be your priority. And I bought into it, I mean,
because they were grown ups in my mind, you know.
But at the time it was it was really all men.
It was very rare to see other women. Of course,
there were women who came before me, so many, but
on the ground it was very male. And but you know,
(28:56):
the thing I love about stand up, especially now, is
that it's it's so diverse. I mean it's it's so
diverse every kind of person. There's comics, and we're just
like this island of misfit toys. I always think of
it because it's like when you meet a comic, even
if you've never met them before, you're already like mishbooka.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You know, well, you always seem like you're someone who's
really open to growing and changing and being changed and
open to people and material and life. And if you
were to look back at your life, what would you
say Your through line.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Is give me an example, what do you mean? Okay,
the content totem.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, I mean mine is perseverance. So mine is like
every time I get knocked down, I get up again,
like that song, but it's like I'm I'm like that.
Ye just come of.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
People tobble, but they don't fall down exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So that for me would be my through line professionally beautiful.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I don't know. I think just evolving and being okay,
not knowing stuff, being okay with the stuff that is
just too big to comprehend.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That was Sarah Silverman. If you want to hear more
from her, go check out her latest special, Sarah Silverman
Someone You Love, streaming now on Max, or go listen
to the Sarah Silverman podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
You get your shows.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Now. What with Burke Shields is a production of iHeartRadio.
Our lead producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional
research and editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our
executive producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by
Baheid Fraser.
What do you do when life doesn't go according to
plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told
by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down
with a guest to talk about the times they were
knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
(00:27):
Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all
are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and
every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice
answers one question, Now, what when you started in comedy?
(00:51):
It really and it less so now I think, I mean,
you tell me, but was really a boys club?
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Yea?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
What personage did you put on to be level with
the boys?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
When I first started stand up, the guys all told
me you have to talk about stuff that guys are interested,
and you can't talk about like the female experience, which
I don't think they put that in those words even,
and they explained they had a very good reason. They said,
because women are there on dates and they will only
(01:24):
laugh if their date lasts, so you have to make
the men laugh. That it has to be your priority,
and I bought into it. I mean, because they were
grown ups.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
In my mind, my guest today is a comedy icon.
She's also an actor, a best selling author, a podcaster,
and so much more. Sarah Silverman has been on the
scene for thirty years, and I suspect many of you
(01:58):
have an opinion about her work and her sense of humor.
Mine is this. I think she is brilliant and I
have watched in admiration as she's done it all. Award
winning stand up specials, her own shows on Comedy Central
and Hulu, dramatic turns in films like I Smile Back,
(02:18):
and Yes, even in musical about Wedding the Bed. Sarah
is insanely talented. She's kind, engaging and generous with her time.
I feel so fortunate that we got to spend some
time together chatting, just one on one, and I'm so
excited for you to hear that conversation. So without further ado,
here is the one and only Sarah Silverman. Thank you
(02:43):
for giving me of your time. Of course, I always
get excited when I know I'm going to get a
chance to see you. Oh my god, even hang out
a little bit I just wanted to ask how you're doing.
I know you have family in Israel.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, they're all alive, and but it's so scary, you know.
I mean, my youngest niece is in the army. I
mean you have to do the army, you know, so
she's still in it and right girding a bass.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
You know.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
It's just like, oh my gosh, terrifying. They all have
friends that were murdered. You know. I'm usually pretty good
at compartmentalizing.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Well, you have, I mean you have to, you have
to anyway. I just I'm my heart and soul is
I just feel I'm putting my version of prayer.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yeah, whatever however that looks to everybody, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
My heart's with you. That's all. The other thing I
also want to start off with, Yeah, you are spectacular
in my strung.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
Oh my gosh, you really.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I mean I'm not surprised. It's like I always get, oh,
I thought you were going to stuck. But you're good.
That's not what I that's not what. I'm not so
prized at your talent. I'm just I was so glad
that you were cast in that part, and it's such
a standout part. I'm so personally attached to that character,
just because I did Wonderful Town on Broadway and I
(04:14):
got to meet I got to meet her actually wow,
when she was still alive, and oh, she just said
Adolph would be so happy.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
But that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
I think she would have just loved just from the
teeny teeny that I knew her, I think she would
have just loved what you did with the character.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
It's a very rare time where Adolph would be so happy.
Is actually a lovely thing to say.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
It's a good thing. Yeah, no, true, But anyway, I
just congratulations on that. And you have a new stand
up special which is on HBO. It's called Sarah Silverman
someone you Love. Yah. But what's weird is I don't
think that was the case with the other ones, but
with this one, I thought it was really interesting that
(05:03):
you you had to create this one on a deadline.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
For h oh. Yeah, I've never done it like that.
Speaker 1 (05:10):
And that's not how it normally works.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
A lot of comics do that. I've never done that.
I've always first of all, for some reason, specials never
occur to me. I never think about the future. I mean,
of course I have the I have anxiety where I
tkle what if, what if? But I never I rarely
have dreams or goals. I just do stand up, you know.
(05:35):
I just never think about it. Like I have friends
that are on their like fourteenth special. Like this last
special was my fourth special. I've been doing stand ups
since I was, you know, seventeen, professionally nineteen. I'm fifty two,
thirty whatever, thirty three years. So this time I had
done a pilot for HBO before, right before the pandemic,
(05:59):
and part of that was a special. The pilot didn't go,
but I still had them a special. But then the
COVID came and then that passed and I just started,
I'm like starting over, like just figuring out what I have,
and they were like, we won our special, you know,
Oh my god. So I like did everything I had
(06:21):
at Largo, and I had thirty six minutes, and of
course not all of it is like stuff I want
to necessarily do, like, you know, So I just booked
the road and rode it on the road and it
was really fun.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I mean, I don't know if this is a source
of constant pressure, but to constantly come up with new
material has got to be both thrilling and a pressure cooker.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yeah, I mean, listen, you know I've been going on
stage saying, listen, my special just came out. I'm starting over,
and I have to be willing to disappoint you. So
basically I'm 'dibly brave right now, you know, Like, but yeah,
you have to, like I mean, and I really I
always like, I always mentioned Chris Rock because he's such
(07:10):
a great example of someone who does a special, murders
it whatever, and then gets back, you know, takes some
time off, gets back out there, walks into the comedy celler.
Everyone goes crazy standing ovation for like four minutes, and
then he starts and he's just trying stuff, and you know,
sometimes it's the audience is just like, oh, you know,
(07:33):
like and he knows that he's going to disappoint them,
and he's not going to do bits that they want
him to do that they know he's just gonna and
if he finds one thing that's like a kernel of something,
it was a success, you know, And you have to
be willing to do that. It's really hard for comics
who are people lasers.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Especially when you get a laugh. The tendency used to
want to get that laugh for us.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
You go, I know I have material that can kill,
but I've already done it. I can't go back on
the road, and because people will just supplement what you
don't have that's new with old stuff. You know works,
and that's so smart. But one I don't like my
brain won't remember it. And two my fear is that
I'll figure I'll figure out that joke. Like I did
(08:18):
some shows after I recorded the special, I had still
more dates on the road, and it was so frustrating
because of course, now there's a part of me that's
so loose and so you know, so free with the
material that I figure out the perfect tag or and
that's maddening.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
But there is something that happens when I mean, I've
done shows for six months at a time on Broadway,
and what is quite unbelievable to me is when you
find something that you never knew what's there, even on
the last performance after eight a week for six months,
and to me, that just signifies, oh, it's a live
it's a live, tangible thing. Yeah, just to start a
(08:58):
little bit back in the early days, I think all
parents are extremely formative, but your dad just seems to
be in particular to someone who just was such a
support of yours and really supported you as a comedian.
And I was curious what his sense of humor was like,
and did that shape you at all?
Speaker 2 (09:19):
One hund, I mean, it's I'm such a combination of
him and my mom. You know, it's he's he was
so funny. I mean, I don't know if I told you this,
Like on his deathbed, he Jeff Ross came to visit
because there you know, a lot of people came to
visit him, came to visit him, you know, Oh, it
was pretty amazing. And Jeff Ross, well, first he came
(09:44):
and he said, Schleppie. Everyone calls me Dad, Schleppe Schleppie.
I've got bad news. I don't think you can be
my emergency contact anymore. Theoddy. And then so then he
Jeff introduced my parents to this guy, Bernie Shine, and
they became very good friends with him. That he's a
magician that Jeff is friends with. Of course an older guy,
(10:07):
and so he put him on FaceTime to say like
goodbye to my dad, and my stepmother had just died
a week before, and he said, and her name was Janie,
and he holds the camera and my dad goes, Bernie,
your show was so bad. It killed Janice, And I'm
(10:27):
not feeling so hot either. He was killing on his deathbed.
It was amazing.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
My mother used to do this thing where she'd, you know,
she'd see a dog like tied up to a post
or something outside a store or a restaurant or something, and
she'd get down to the dog and she'd say, they're
never coming back. She's so sick. My mother. My mother's
humor was so like it was hysterical. Were there any
(10:56):
other people growing up or comics that really and your comedy?
Speaker 2 (11:02):
I mean, my dad was a big one, you know,
because he was very big and funny, and my mother
was kind of covertly funny. And to me, I was
my number one was Steve Martin, you know, I just
worshiped him. As a matter of the house I grew
up in with my mom, I lived, I had a
(11:23):
room in the attic and on the ceiling and pencil
I wrote, I Love Steve Martin and it's still there
all these years later, and they, you know, after my
mom died, my sister sold the house and then I
did a show in Boston like a year later, and
the realtor who sold the house came and he brought
this picture that they had like painted the whole house,
(11:46):
but they kept that one thing on the ceiling where
I lived, where my room was.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
You talk about this in your books, and especially in
bed Weather, the brilliant book, you talk about the struggle
that you had with wedding the bed. Now I wet
the bed, but for very different reasons. Now I went
the bed because I'm a fifty eight year old woman
five sneeze in my sleepers. But what do you think
(12:23):
that was? I don't know.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
I don't know. I mean, I went the bed like
deep into my teens, and you know, I think it
was probably emotional. I think also it was physical. Like
I was very small for my age. I looked like
a little kid when I was like a teenager, and
then I turned like seventeen, and all of a sudden,
(12:45):
I had like boobs. But I didn't get my period
until I was almost eighteen. So it's just like I
was little for my age, and then I went, yeah,
like exploded out. You know. It's always funny to me
when I've like dated men who don't know how to
do laundry, because I had to learn at a very
young age, had to wash my sheets and stuff, you know.
But uh, yeah, it was torture. I thought I was
(13:08):
positive it would be the biggest shame of my life.
And of course you know it's not.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
You know, but there were but it didn't happen in
the day, no, like at school or anything. So it's
just just in bed. Well, I I mean, listen, I've
gotten hammered before and and and and pe you know,
woke up and thought I was in the bathroom.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
And was funny because the year after I got fired
from Saturday Night Live, I was twenty three and I
went the bed three times that year. Wow. Yeah, And
I want like, I don't know if it was some
kind of like regression or something, but I was in
the I was in a bed. I was in bed
with a man all three times. And there were three
(13:50):
different men.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Well, you know, they'll get to know you and then
and then those who stick around, you know, says a lot.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yeah, And actually one of the men was not like
a lover. It was my friend day of Wrath, who
I was just staying with him. And if you didn't
hook up with the girl that night, I would sleep
next to him in bed. Otherwise I'd sleep on the couch.
And this was a long time ago, and so I
but I slept next to him. We went to a
party and you know, and I uh pete and I
(14:22):
woke up and I remember like thinking, oh my god,
I have to tell him. Like if I don't tell
him now, I'm going to be too embarrassed. And I
was just like, Dave, I peed in your bed. He's
you know, such a men. She was like, I just
put a towel down, and I was like, oh, not
that embarrassing for all. I guess.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
How do you how do you think that shaped you
as a kid, having to sort of live with that.
I read a quote where you mentioned that that experience
helped you be less afraid of sort of sucking on
stage exactly. You know.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
I mean it's like when you suffered that kind of humiliation,
you know, you sleep over this or that, you know,
and you're and you wet your bed wetterre you know,
and you're way too old to be and you're at
that age where kids like break your heart, you know,
(15:19):
like if you're weird. And yeah, like when I started
doing stand up, but you know, the first time I
did a stand up. I was seventeen in those early years,
I sucked, but it didn't deter me because it was
just it could it nothing compares to the humiliation of
being a bedwetting kid, you know, an older kid especially,
(15:42):
so I think it was easy to to persevere for
me like through.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
That, and it probably breeds a certain type of resilience
to any type of criticism once you've felt it on
that vis oral level.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, and also just between that and being like this
very hairy Jewish kid in a sea of strawberry blonde
you know, Christians. This is unique to me but completely
ununique to all comedians, which is I think developing skills
at an early age to survive childhood, and those skills
(16:20):
were being funny. I knew how to be funny. I
knew how to get my friend's parents to like me
and not fear me. I mean, it's funny because you know,
you're from New York City, so it's like Jews are
like whatever. I mean, you probably went to so many
bar mitzvahs. I went to zero. I didn't even know
what a bar mitzvah was, you know, Like I was
(16:42):
raised by atheists. The only way we knew we were
Jewish was because we were different from everyone else. Like
my sister, who's now a rabbi, would always say, like,
I thought being Jewish meant being a democrat, because that's
how we were different where we live. And so you learn,
like I have a friend Brian Moses, who's black and
grew up around a lot of white people, and we
both have that thing that was just innate in us
(17:05):
that we didn't realize what it was until looking back
as adults, which is just we knew how to make
our friends' parents not worry about us, not worry about
having their kids with us, to make them realize without
a doubt that we are safe to be around and kind,
and you know, like it was, you know, it was
(17:27):
just kind of a thing that you I knew innately,
but I didn't know intellectually, you know.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
I mean I can identify with that only as I
always had to make myself relatable and that was through
hures and making fun of myself and then then I
was not a threat, you know.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
I mean you're the example of that, because you were
this baby star and in order to make friends you
must have had to be like, no, I'm just goofy.
I'm just not you know, you know, to or even
to diminish.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yourself completely completely. And I know that you're workshopping currently
the musical version of your memoir.
Speaker 2 (18:05):
And we had a runoff Broadway last spring, and we've
done a workshop since, and then the plan is we're
gonna do an out of town run and then to Broadway.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Are you in it or just no?
Speaker 2 (18:20):
In it?
Speaker 1 (18:21):
It is so we don't get to hear your voice
eight times.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
A week, well not your voice, not literally. But I
co wrote it, and I co wrote the book and
the lyrics with brilliant writers. But it's it's it's called
The Bedwetter. And I think some people who went without
knowing what it was just thought it was like the
whole book, or you know, the book covers like into
(18:45):
comedy and you know, from from birth to like you know,
by being a young comic. This is just the year
I'm ten. So there's this this tiny me and a
tiny one sister. I only have one sister in it.
I was like, I had to tell my other sisters,
I'm sorry, you don't exist.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
In this amalgamation of service three sisters. Yeah, I know.
No Chekhov already did that. Have you gotten no offer?
You must have gotten offers to do Broadway shows or
come into shows.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
I have and I'd love to, but it just hasn't
been the right Oh.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
And it's grueling.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
I mean it is, but I've not really loved that.
I mean, you know, I mean I my mom was
a theater director, and you know I love that. I mean,
not on Broadway in New Hampshire, but still.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It's funny. My daughter is, my younger one is looking
at colleges and she was looking at n y U.
And it was funny because I said, you know, I
was kind of not lobbying really, but just sort of
you know, the mom thing where one's already gone and
I'm like, how can I keep the other one close by?
Because I'm ameshed. But I was interested around that time
(20:11):
because you dropped out after a year. Yeah, did you
hate it?
Speaker 2 (20:14):
I loved it, but I was I was working every
day from four pm to two am, passing out flyers
on the corner of McDougal and West Third, and I
was sleeping through my classes and it was torture. I
was like pinching myself awake. It reminded me of like
sleepovers as a kid, pinging myself awake to try to
(20:36):
so I wentn't went to bed, but I was just like,
I felt horrible and teachers going like, Sarah, are you
you know? Like I couldn't keep my eyes open. It
was horrible. And I was a drama major, which made
me feel so guilty because it's such an expensive school
to be a drama major, Like that's luxurious, you know.
So you know, I was passing out flyers for a
(20:58):
comedy club to get to be able to get time
on stage. So I pat I worked there and I
got paid ten dollars an hour, which was a lot.
So I was making one hundred bucks a day and
then getting on stage. But I was sleeping through school
and so I took a year off to focus on
stand up. My plan to go back was to change
(21:21):
from drama to arts and sciences because I wanted to
get knowledge, you know. So I signed up and then
like three weeks before I started my sophomore year, my
dad called and said, listen, if you drop out and
just focus on you know, what you want to do,
(21:42):
because I you know, I'll pay your rent for the
next three years as if it's your sophomore, junior, senior year.
And so I said, deal, he paid my rent and utilities.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
But what was his end of the deal. Was it like,
but you got to hit it hard and really commit
to this.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Well that was I was. I mean, I know, I
went out with friends. I never every night, I was
at clubs trying to get on every single time. I mean,
it's all I wanted to do. Was that was like
not a commitment. He needed to press me on. I
was all in.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So you did that. What was the first what do
you view as the first sort of real achievement that
you made professionally?
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Well, they're allways little ones, like passing at the comic
strip when I was nineteen, you know, and then I got,
you know, to sign up for I got to have
do paid spots. You know, there were ten dollars a spot,
you know. But and then I you know, I got
I became a writer at you know, by the time
I would have been a senior in college where the money,
you know, my dad stopped paying for my rent. I
(22:43):
actually got hired to write for Saturday Night Live, so
I supported myself since I was twenty two. And that
lasted a year, and then I got fired, and I
was shocked. You know, it never occurred to me. I'm
you know, I'm it never occurs to me. I'm going
to get fired. I've been fired many times. Never occurs
(23:05):
to me. It never occurs to me, like a boyfriend
would cheat on me. Never, And that's happened, you know
what I mean. But I kind of prefer living this way,
you know. But it's always a shock. It was always
a shock. You know.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Well, I call this show now What because it's about
those moments. They're not always bad. I mean sometimes they're
a good now what moment? But those are now what moments?
And how do you How did you internalize that and
continue for it?
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Was like I'm I guess I'm not in show business anymore.
I'm just just like I was stunned. I remember just
thinking like, who am I without this? Which is interesting
because that kind of happened in the Double Strike too.
I think with a lot of people recently just like
who am I without this? And that's a scary question
(23:52):
and probably an important question, you know, because I still
feel like, I mean, if so. But what I realized
then was like, well, I'm a stand up, you know.
I just kept my head downe and did stand up,
which is you know something I'm very lucky can be
a constant in my life.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Were you surprised at how shocked people were by your comedy?
At first?
Speaker 2 (24:15):
I was because in the household I grew up in,
the comedy was very dark and like hard, you know,
And so when people were shocked by me, there was
a little bit of like what who mey? But there
was some genuine what whomy about it? Like because I
(24:37):
just that really was my experience in my home.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Is there one thing that when you look back at
your comedy and also now that you're especially proud of.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
Well, I think I'm proud of like, you know, I'm
proud of all of it. I'm cringey at a lot
of it, you know, I mean, you know, it's comedy
is not evergreens. I haven't seen my first special Jesus
is Magic, but I know that it's problematic on several
levels levels now. But I think I'm proud of the
(25:14):
changing and being brave enough to lose fans, you know,
to get new fans, to just be true to like
whatever I'm into in this moment, you know.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
I mean, I think that that's the most important thing
is to be able to pivot. And I also think
that it's so interesting because most, I believe great comics
have to sort of be polarizing. I don't know if
I mean, if you're too vanilla down the center, it's
sort of I don't know. It doesn't comics.
Speaker 2 (25:48):
Who are very you could say, like very clean or
very vanilla, that are brilliant because it's authentically them, you know,
I mean Seinfelder, Jim Gaffigan, or people who are like
very clean but brilliantly funny. I mean, there are a
lot of dirty comics that suck, you know, I mean
it's all you know. But but yeah, I mean there's
there's clear.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
About what they're point. Yes, But I mean I think
that that's so those two things I think are always
very close. But I want to ask you the now
walk question again because I am so interested in those like,
oh fuck, now what do I do? And in our
personal lives and why some people go in one direction
(26:32):
and why other people you know, get stagnant or can't.
But it's and I understand the professional ones. Are there
any personal now what moments that stick out for you?
Speaker 2 (26:43):
You know? I will say getting older as a woman,
and also as someone who like in my younger years,
I was like the kid and I was like, you know,
I used my sexual prowess as a you know, it
was a power. It was the power I had, and
(27:05):
you know that goes away when you're not like young
and dumb, and I had to learn all the other
parts of myself, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yeah, Well also it's I mean I used to see
you predominantly just at Gary's basketball games, and I remember
saying to Gary channeling our loved mutual friend who I
met through my husband, who has passed away. But I
remember saying to Gary. When Gary invited me, I said, like,
(27:42):
women don't go, and it was it was funny because
you were the only girl playing with them. And when
you when you started in comedy, it really and it
less so now I think, I mean, you tell me,
but was really a boys club?
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It was?
Speaker 1 (27:59):
It was boy How did you what personae did you
put on to be level with the boys? You know,
you were like alone.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
When I first started stand up, the guys all told
me you have to talk about stuff that guys are
interested and you can't talk about like the female experience,
which I don't think they put that in that word,
those words even, and they explained they had a very
good reason. They said, because women are there on dates
(28:31):
and they will only laugh if their date laughs, So
you have to make the men laugh that it has
to be your priority. And I bought into it, I mean,
because they were grown ups in my mind, you know.
But at the time it was it was really all men.
It was very rare to see other women. Of course,
there were women who came before me, so many, but
on the ground it was very male. And but you know,
(28:56):
the thing I love about stand up, especially now, is
that it's it's so diverse. I mean it's it's so
diverse every kind of person. There's comics, and we're just
like this island of misfit toys. I always think of
it because it's like when you meet a comic, even
if you've never met them before, you're already like mishbooka.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
You know, well, you always seem like you're someone who's
really open to growing and changing and being changed and
open to people and material and life. And if you
were to look back at your life, what would you
say Your through line.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Is give me an example, what do you mean? Okay,
the content totem.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, I mean mine is perseverance. So mine is like
every time I get knocked down, I get up again,
like that song, but it's like I'm I'm like that.
Ye just come of.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
People tobble, but they don't fall down exactly.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
So that for me would be my through line professionally beautiful.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
I don't know. I think just evolving and being okay,
not knowing stuff, being okay with the stuff that is
just too big to comprehend.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
That was Sarah Silverman. If you want to hear more
from her, go check out her latest special, Sarah Silverman
Someone You Love, streaming now on Max, or go listen
to the Sarah Silverman podcast on the iHeartRadio app or wherever.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
You get your shows.
Speaker 1 (30:41):
Now. What with Burke Shields is a production of iHeartRadio.
Our lead producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional
research and editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our
executive producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by
Baheid Fraser.
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