August 8, 2023 • 32 mins
Today co-anchor (and literal ray of sunshine!) Savannah Guthrie chats with Brooke about their mutual love of Arizona, Savannah’s high school “slacker” days, and how her father’s sudden death pushed her toward the career she has today. The broadcast journalist and children’s book author also gets candid about her past struggles with infertility and why she hopes to start singing (and songwriting) in the years to come.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
What do you do when life doesn't go according to
plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told
by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down
with a guest to talk about the times they were
knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
(00:27):
Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all
are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and
every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice
answers one question, now what.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared
for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who
were like, hey, the SATs in May, are we studying.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Parents at that?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I mean no, they knew that when the essayt was
and I mean didn't even know to drive me to it.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
You know it was. I did it all on my own,
and you did too, Yeah I did.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I mean I did it all in my I mean
my mom didn't even know deadlines to apply for college.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
They weren't asking me about my essay. They weren't, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No, none of it. That's what makes me laugh. Like
I asked my mom recently, I'm like, hey, Mom, you
know I got like, you know, pretty average on my
essayt you know, like, did you ever were you ever
thinking like maybe we should set up in one of
these prep courses or whatever, or did I And she said, no.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Honey, was your test on my test?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm like, boom, that's Nancy Guthrie in a nutshell.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
My guest today is Savannah gut Thrie. Savannah is an
award winning journalist, a TV personality, an author, a former attorney,
a loving wife and mother, and so much more. She's
been with NBC for more than a decade, during what
she's moderated debates, covered some of the biggest news stories
(02:04):
of the decade, and has interviewed world leaders, celebrities, and
newsmakers alike. Savannah is razor sharp, empathetic, and incredibly down
to earth. We've met a number of times over the years,
and she's always a breath of fresh air. I hope
you enjoyed this interview as much as I do. Here
(02:26):
is Savannah Guthrie.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I know how busy you are.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I cannot even imagine, and next time when we get
a chance to talk, I want to do it in person.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Whether we're podcasting or not. I want to see you.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Absolutely, and I would like to have let's see what's
your cocktail of choice these days, because mine's still pretty
much tequila, but oh.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
My god, me too, vodka soda with like squeezed half
a lime and lots of ice.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
I call it a savinita.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Savanita. I like that, Hey, you're onto something, Thank you
so much. And I know that you're schedule is so
different than most people's, Like I don't think people I'm
friends with people who are also like in your industry
and they go to bed.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
At eight Loserville.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well no, but.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Also it's actually kind of the times that I've done it,
there's something really kind of quiet and beautiful about the
time on both ends. Yeah, you were quoted once as
saying your perfect dinner time is four.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, you know, there's all these articles now that say
that in New York City, like six is the new
eight or five is the new seven, And I'm like, no,
I don't want anyone to find out this wonderful secret
that eating at five or four is really awesome.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I always love hearing people talk about their early years.
My early years were all documented, so it's never a
surprise to anybody. What were you like as a little girl.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You were from Tucson, you said, yeah, Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
My godmother was from Tucson. So I spent so many summers.
You did Tucson, yep. And then we spent time in Prescott,
and we would like when we were being sort of fancy,
we'd go to Phoenix and we would go to the
Biltmore Wow, and I'd get to swim in that pool.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
It was sun Tea.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Was the first time I ever knew about sun Tea
was was in Tucson.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
How have we never talked about this? I mean, this
is it's so unique. Most people have barely even heard
of Tucson, and here you were there in the summer,
so you know what it's like to be a kid
outside and how hot it is. By the way, you
also said Prescott, right, it's not Prescott's.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, it's not Prescott. It's Prescott.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
You're honorary arizonas I am.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Actually, it's kind of crazy. So when you were the
youngest of three, yes, so you're the baby.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
What were you like? What was little Savannah.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Like you know, I think in some ways probably very
similar to how I am now. I was sensitive, really sensitive.
I was a pleaser, you know. I think I was
mostly a pretty good girl, not too too rebellious. I
wasn't very athletic, that remains true. I'm super clumsy, I
(05:04):
was chubby, I had curly hair.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
You know, I was.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I would very often be the last person picked on
those like the sports teams.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
It's not because people didn't like me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I just wasn't good at sports, so I would be
there like you know, or I was like the slowest.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Sometimes I feel like that's.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Why I kind of had to develop a personality, because
because I wasn't going to be making it on my
looks and athleticism, let's just put it that way.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I was always picked last for dodgeball I and it
was because I was bigger than everybody, so I was
an easier tarketed.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I don't know if they still do that, but I
can't stand that practice of everyone lines up and they
have two team captains. It's excruciating, Like we pick so so,
and even your best friend, we'll pick someone else because
you know they want to win, and you don't blame them,
you know, you're like, but it's just so painful.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
And we've been doing it ever since then.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But I had a good childhood. I mean I was
like a pretty happy kid. I would say, but yeah,
look maybe a little awkward inside.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Think, I mean, we're all a little awkward inside, but true.
So what dreams did you have for yourself as a
little girl.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
No, I didn't have really big career dreams, I don't think,
but I did. I have always had something of a
vision of myself. I knew i'd be standing up somewhere,
pointing to things and explaining things. So for a while
I was like, maybe I'll be a teacher, you know.
And I always kind of had that I will call
it a vision like that's I could see myself standing
(06:31):
up and being an explainer and a communicator, even though
I didn't have words for it then. So first I
thought teacher, Then I thought you know. Then I went
to school and I started getting into journalism and all that.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
And so it kind of jelled with that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And later when I went to law school, I was like,
maybe ILL meant to stand up in court make an argument.
So it all kind of it's all of a piece,
you know, kind of what I ended up doing matched
up with that.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I mean, this is interesting because you were clearly not
a slacker as a little kid. And I read in
your Georgetown Law commencement speech, which in and of itself
is a beautiful thing to have in your roster. You
said something that I loved so much. You said, slackers
(07:17):
can turn it around.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yes, I am living proof of that. I think as
a little girl, I was a pretty good student. I was,
you know, like I said, I think I was a
pretty good girl.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
When I got into.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
High school, I just was really checked out. You know,
I just wasn't very interested in school. I went to
a very big public high school. It was easy to
blend in, and I cut class a lot, Like, I
missed whole swaths of classes. I'd missed a test, So
(07:49):
I had very average grades, Like I mean, I barely
squeaked by.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Was it just not important to you or did you
just were like, what's this going to do for me?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think I just was like teenager who was more
interested in hanging out with my friends and smoking cigarettes.
And you know, I think in my family it was
my family it was a difficult time in my family.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
They were distracted.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
They there were a lot of hardships that the family
was going through. My grandparents had moved in with us.
My grandfather passed away. My father had a heart attack.
He ended up he passed away when I was sixteen,
actually junior in high school. They were very of course
I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared
for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who
were like, hey, the SATs in May are we studying.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
I mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Even think my parents knew the SAT was coming up.
I mean, I actually think I forgot. That's why I
did so terribly on it. They just it's not that
they didn't care. Of course, they cared, And actually I
always felt that they really believed in me and felt
that I had a lot of talent and intelligence.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
And I think they felt that way about all of us.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But it was a different era.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
It was a different era. They were not hovering parents.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So if I wasn't going to keep up with my responsibilities,
they just were too overwhelmed by real issues in life
to try to like crack.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Down on that.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I mean, I'd get grounded or they say, why do
you get a d in geometry? But it just you know,
that's how it was, so I always laugh about it. Yes,
I was a pretty average to terrible student in high school.
I graduated, I went to college in my hometown. You know.
It wasn't until midway through college that things started to
click for me and I started getting interested and I
found journalism and I found writing, and I loved all that.
(09:30):
And I say I was a slacker, but I always
had a job at a job since I was fourteen
years old, So I wasn't like sitting around watching the
soapseding bond bonds.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I worked really hard. I just wasn't much of a scholar.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
But in a way, I mean it laid the groundwork.
It's like you've been, I mean, in the healthiest way,
ambitious and focused and driven since then, because you had
to learn that at such an early age. But you
also had to deal with grief at such an early age. Yeah,
your father died suddenly. Yeah, and you were sixteen.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yes, he had a heart attack. So when I was thirteen,
he had a heart attack. I think I was a
freshman in high school, and I don't think the kids.
I don't think we understood how serious that was. And
then three years later he had another heart attack and
that one was fatal, and he I mean, it was
so unexpected.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
How does that kind of loss, How does a loss
of that magnitude change you in the years that followed.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I think it changes everything, you know. I always think
of it as like, you know, on our calendars we
have like BC and AD, there's like a before and after.
It's just like this stark dividing line. You know. It's
like there's before my dad died and there's after. And
it's profound.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
It takes.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I mean, grief is a lifelong process. I really believe that.
You know, there's a cute grief. There's different moments of grief.
But I remember thinking, even then, when I was a
late teenager, I always thought, I have a cup of
grief now, like it's like a cup of water, and
I'm going to spend the rest of my life emptying
this cup. And sometimes it's coming out in buckets, and
(11:10):
sometimes it's a little sprinkle, and sometimes I can just
hold it and nothing comes out. But every last drop
of this cup will not be empty until I leave
this world.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I will always carry this grief.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It doesn't mean that I'm not happy, that I'm not joyous,
that I don't I mean, of course, but it's part
of me. This cup of grief is part of me,
and I think it made me more serious internally.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
When you lose a parent like that, so suddenly.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It's so shocking. At sixteen, you just have some knowledge,
You just know something about the world that hopefully others
don't have to know.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Did it change your view of parenting, or taking risks
or health.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
It's hard to know.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I know it changed me and probably changed the whole
trajectory of my life. I mean, I often think that
I would have been totally different if my father had lived.
I just don't know that I would have chosen this career.
I don't know if I would have left home, I
might have stayed in my hometown. I don't know what
I would have done. Yeah, but I know fundamentally it
(12:14):
changed everything, and some things it changed for the better,
in the sense of I know that my heart is
more tender because of it, you know, I know, I
think you know. I wasn't afraid to talk to people
who are sad or in grief because I know what
it's like to be in grief, and I know that
(12:36):
pretty much there's nothing you can say that's going to
make them feel any worse. And that actually not everyone,
but when you lose someone, often the person wants to
talk about that. Like if somebody comes up to me
and has something to tell me about my dad, which
occasionally will happen on the process, someone will say, you know,
my uncle was cousins or my uncle was you know,
went to high school with your father and he always
(12:57):
said and I'm like, I can't hear enough of it.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
You've been open about infertility struggles and your IVF journey
with your husband. Yeah, I went through IVF seven times,
so I have complete empathy for you.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
When did you first start wanting to have children?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Gosh, I think I always wanted to be a mom
and always hoped that I would be a mom, and
always kind of assumed that I would be a mom,
would get married and have kids, and I really wanted
to and in fact, that may have been the thing
I wanted more than anything else, more than any career.
I wanted to just go live happily a rafter and
be married and have kids.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Like I think that's really was my biggest goal in life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And as luck would have it, I just was not
particularly successful in my personal life, like pretty much through
my twenties and thirties, you know, I mean, you know,
i'd like have a boyfriend for a couple of years
or did not really work out.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
I just couldn't, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And then all my friends were getting married and oh
my gosh, then they started having babies, and I was
heartbroken about that. I mean, that was like, to me,
just my great trial and great tragedy. I so wanted
to be them. I so wanted to be married and
have kids, and I just couldn't find somebody who wanted
to marry me basically.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
And also, though you were working, I mean you were.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I was. I was, and it is true. But I
think sometimes people are like, oh, you're probably too busy,
you know. You're like, I'm like, oh no, you have
to understand this about me. I'm not proud of this.
But I would have gotten off the work crazy train
in a heartbeat if I could have just fallen in
love and had kids.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I definitely wanted the fairy tale, so it was always
with me. Then in my thirties, I briefly I met someone,
we got married. It was short lived and it was just,
you know, just didn't work out. It was a sad situation.
And then I was really really crushed and sure that
I would never that it would never.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Happen for me.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So you know, I'm a person of faith, and I
will never stop more at my incredible blessing that somehow
I could be divorced at thirty five or thirty six,
that I could not get married for another five or
six years after that, and somehow, by the grace of God,
get to have my little girl, and then also by
(15:15):
the grace of God and IVF, get to have my
little boy.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
And I'll never be over that miracle.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I mean, I was divorced at thirty eight, and by
the time I started having wanting to have kids, it
was just like, oh, this is not going to be
easy for you. And had it not been for IVF,
you know, I would not have any babies. I wouldn't
have any I wouldn't have my girls. And I've been
thinking about sort of that ownership of not just fertility
(15:45):
but sexuality and reclaiming and understanding my value and worth,
and it's so mind blowing to me the degree of
the treatment that was acceptable back then I've recently been
really looking back at my life, and in both of
our fields in news entertainment, were conditions for women, The
(16:08):
way women were viewed, the way we were all sexualized,
you know, the way we're spoken, to the way we're
dealt with. And I'm interested in your perspective on that,
because looking back, especially just as a young reporter, is
there a moment that stands out for you that was
indicative of that struggle?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You know? It's interesting because I look at the women
who came before me, like Andrew Mitchell or Leslie Stahl
or Diane Sawyer, and I guess I keep it all
on perspective when I think about what they carried on
their shoulders and the way they cleared a path, And
sometimes I feel like they cleared that path and then
(16:52):
I sailed right through it.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Barbara Walters was on the Today Show that she was
called a Today girl. She thought to have a seat
at the table, had there was when she first started
the co anchor, she wasn't allowed to even ask a
question until the co anchor had asked three her male
co anchor, and I just feel like I've gotten to
stand on her shoulders and Andrea's shoulders. I mean, Andrew
(17:16):
was like one of the leslie They were the only
women at the White House, you know, and I think
all women, I think a lot of people, but women
in particularly you feel and you just know that you
better be on your game. You know, you can't be
shallow and flighty. You have to be substantive. So I knew,
especially when I came to the White House to start
covering the White House, that was to this day the
(17:39):
most challenging assignment I've ever had. Why because it's so
it's just multi layered. The stakes are high, the spotlight
is bright. It yes, it's all of that. So you're like,
if you're at the White House or the network, like
you're at the top of what your network is expecting
from you. People are watching, they're scrutinizing. But also more importantly,
(18:02):
the issues that you're covering at the White House are
incredibly complex, and if you want to be any good
at it, you have to be pretty deep on policy.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I know that we cover a lot of politics, and
there's a lot of horse race and who's up and
who's down, But when you actually cover the White House
every day, you have to be an expert on our
nuclear policy, our education policy.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Tax policy. I mean, you got to know this stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And if you want to be a good reporter and
you want to challenge some of those in power, you
got to be real deep on it. And I felt
so much anxiety. Well, I felt I could never know enough.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Did you read constantly and study constantly?
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I tried to, but then sometimes I couldn't because I
was tired or I just wanted to go to bed,
and so then I would feel afraid, you know. And
I mean Andrea to this day, I don't know, maybe
not to this day, but when I worked with her
very closely, it's like Andrew would be like reading the
newspaper at two o'clock in the morning. I mean, she's
so incredible and so intense and so focused. And I
(19:03):
know that that there's an aspect of that that has
to do with my femaleness, knowing that I can't I
have to be prepared.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
I got to be on my game. I can't be
caught napping.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
But also part of the armor is the knowledge and
self advocating. How did you know and when did you
start learning really how to self advocate for yourself in
all of these situations.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Well, you know, it's so interesting and I would never
hold up my psyche as a model for any young
woman to follow, But it's worked for me. And you know,
I think that for most of my career and my
and my legal education, all of it, what propelled me
was fear. What propelled me was fear of failure.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It was ambitious in a certain way, but I wasn't
ambitious to win. I was ambitious not to fail. And
I don't I don't wish that perspective on my little daughter,
you know, I want her to come at it from a.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Different How do you do that?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But how do you like that?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And also by the way it works, like I not,
a little fear is not bad. No, it's not a
lot of fear is bad. Debilitating fear is bad. But
you know, in the first graduation speech I ever gave
was at my alma mater, the University of Arizona, and
I said to the students, fear of failure is good
for you.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
A little fear of failure is good.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you know, like athletes will tell you this, if
I go out there and I'm not a little scared
to lose, then I've lost my edge. You have to
have a little nervous or actors you know this. I
mean you still get a little flutter when you're out
there on stage or for me, that means you're still
in the game, you still care.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
So you mentioned law school. You've been years in broadcasting
and you then decided to go to law school time
that does you know that?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
It was like one of those moments I had, you know,
worked really hard to get into local news. I was
doing it. I was in it about five and a
half six years. I had been covering a lot of
trials and legal issues. It was at that moment when
court TV was really big and the OJ trial and
all those and I was really like into watching that stuff.
So I got very interested in the law. And it
kind of goes back to our fear of failure discussion,
(21:23):
because it was really two things. One, I was interested
in the law, and secondly, I knew it was getting
to be time for me to try to move on
to a bigger market. You know, in television news, especially
back then, the trajectories started in a tiny little town,
small market media market.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Big market. Well, I was in a medium market.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It was time to try to reach that big market,
and honestly, I felt like I don't know if I'm
good enough. And I was so dreading that process and
having to send out your tapes. I could never do
your job, like what you guys have to do to
audition and like the way you feel like you're on
the ballot every day. Just the thought of having this
sent out those tapes in all the rejection. So I
(22:02):
was like, you know what I'm going to do. It
wasn't even time to do that. I was like, I'm
going to take the l SAT, the law school entrance exam,
and I'll see how I do, and I'll have it
in my back pocket. So if I can't get a
job in a bigger market, I can apply to law school.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
I know.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I was like it was my plan B in a way,
like if I.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
That's crazy, your plan B is, man, I'm going to
get a law degree.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
That'll be my plan B. When you nuts, well.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Here's what's the crazy. This is like such a wild story,
So I'll let all the deadlines pass. I took the
L side. It was like December nineteen ninety eight. Everything passed.
There was no way I was going to law school.
I got a letter out of the blue in the mail.
Let's say it was February nineteen ninety nine from Georgetown
Law saying, the deadlines for applications have expired, but we
(22:48):
will extend it for you if you apply by March fifteenth.
And I was like, what is this letter and why
am I getting it? But I looked at it as like, oh,
you know, an invitation. So I sent off that application,
got in two weeks later, and just decided to go.
You know, I just felt like, this is a door,
It's my job to walk through it. I'm terrified. I
(23:10):
don't even know if I'm done with TV. I'm excited
to go to law school. I'm excited to move across
the country, go to Georgetown.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
What a dream? And so I went for it.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
And then you pivot back to journalism after huge success
in Georgetown Law.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
What's wrong with me? Why do I keep blowing up
perfectly good careers?
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Listen, you could pivot tomorrow and decide you want to
change careers.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So I went, you know the long story short. As
I went to law school, I got a job at
a law firm. I had this clerkship with a federal judge.
All lined up, and those in law school. That's a
big deal. To go work for a federal judge is
like your path has said, that's your pedigree. Now you're
like you're on your way. And I was about to
come work for the judge. It was going to be
(23:54):
in September, and I had I just I couldn't shake
the feeling that wasn't really what I wanted. Like this
whole legal path was there and I liked it, but
I had this secret dream of wanting to be a
legal correspondent. I wanted to be on the national news.
I wanted to make it in the network, you know.
And that was a very far fetched idea where I
(24:16):
was sitting in Washington, d C. At a law firm.
But I decided that if I'm going to do it,
I can't go. I got to do it now. So
I called the judge, which this never happens, like you
don't quit a clerkship before you begin, but I did.
And he said come in and see me, and I said,
I tried to explain it to him. Look, I have
(24:37):
this dream. This is what I meant to do. And
he said, well, do you have a job offer? And
I said no, sir, And then he said, well do
you have any leads or prospects. I mean, why now?
And I said, no, I have nothing, and he's like, well,
I get it. You know it's your dream.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Come why do you come, clerk.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
It's just a year and then you can go do
I get it, Go chase your dream. Then only going
to be enhanced by this experience.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
You'll make contacts. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And I said, Judge, I know that you're right, this
makes perfect sense, but I know myself and if I
don't do it now, I'm never going to have the
courage again. And so he just kind of said, Okay.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I'm glad he didn't go down the ego route of
telling you you've made a huge mistake and blah blah
blah he did with me. And what I mean like that,
that's that's a fair and equitable, a good human.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And by the way, let's be clear, I kind of
let him left him in the lurch because now he's
got a job to fill. These jobs had been filled
years prior. So he was, he is and was a
wonderful person.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
You have been with NBC since two thousand and seven.
That's a long long time.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Not many people can can say that Yeah, what is
the most challenging moment for you that you've ever had
to handle on air?
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Gosh?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, I mean, you know, unfortunately, we've had a few.
I mean, there have been challenging moments in the news.
I mean challenge in terms of covering really hard stories,
really complicated stories, especially in the beginning, you know, when
I was just starting out. I mean in twenty thirteen,
I was pretty darn new in the job, and the
(26:13):
Boston Marathon bombing happened, and four days after that, there
was you may recall, you know, all through the night
they found those suspects and they shut down the city
of Boston, and it was during our era, and I
just happened to be alone on set that day and
we anchored for seven hours straight. And that's a moment
(26:34):
where you have an American city sheltering in place out
of fear of a terrorist attack and it's you. You know,
that is a challenging moment on air, like I cannot
mess this up. We have to have our facts unassailable,
we have to have the tone be correct. So those
there are a lot of moments like that, and then,
(26:55):
of course, you know, I think there have been moments
ups and downs the network and at the show, and
those have been hard to you know, those are moments
that break your heart. And I think what has gotten
me through is just trying to put my head down
and do the job and recognize how lucky I am
(27:17):
to do it. The Today Show is full of beautiful, brilliant, hilarious,
top of the game people, and it's so much more
than anyone you see on TV.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I don't know if you knew this, but there was
a moment when I was going to literally come in
and it was it was such an exciting time because
it was on the Today Show. Yeah, the Today Show.
So I was co hosting with Willie Geist and we
were doing the whole whole week and so and it
was it was just it was in that hour, not
in the in the earlier hour, but it was in
(27:49):
the nine o'clock hour, and we had the best time,
and people were like, oh, this is this is going
to be great. And then the people in charge called
my agents. We sat down and they asked if I
was interested, and I did all the homework and I
was already and then all of a sudden, someone else
got someone else was put in that place.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You would have been great at it. I didn't know
all that, but you would have been great. And I
know we love Willie. He's like, I know, he's a
of yours too.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
God.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yeah, it was uh, it was right down to the
I mean we were in totally go like the whole thing,
and then all of a sudden they they gave it
to somebody else and and then that ended up eventually
not working out. But but it was it was kind
of crushing, but it was also for me, it was
like it was I called the show now What? And
(28:36):
for me that was a now what moment because I thought, Okay, Brook,
I don't fight being a personality. And I've had many
now what moments in my life and that that was
sort of one of them. When it was when I
was approached to do this and I'm just interested always,
and then the unexpected things and that just sort of
pop into our lives, whether they're spiritual or professional or personal.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And looking back, for you, is there a pivot now
what moment for you?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I mean yeah, I mean probably my biggest now whats
were personal? You know, like I told you when I
wasn't you know, I found myself divorced at thirty five
or thirty six, and you know, just like now what
do I do?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
You know, what about what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
You know, I poured myself into work, and I'm so
grateful and lucky that it wasn't the end, you know,
and that there was this wonderful future waiting for me,
my kids and my family and my husband. Like that's
the most important thing to me. That is my life's work.
It's what I care most about. And I always think
you kind of alluded to this earlier. It's like, yes,
(29:40):
I probably wished that I could have had kids earlier,
if I could have written my own script or written
my own life. But I wouldn't want any other kids
but Vail and Charlie. I want those babies, and I
would have waited forever just for them.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
There's always more.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
I mean, I have on an entire platform that I've
been again, and it's about being in your fifties and
or forties and up and I'm fifty eight, but like
being in this era of our lives and realizing there
is more. Oh, it's the best manifesting it for yourself,
Like what are you manifesting for yourself? Like what are
you excited about? And manifesting for yourself in this current future.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
You know what, I daydream all the time about my future,
and I think of it less in work ways. I
think of it as I was just thinking about this
this morning. You know, I used to love to sing
and play the guitar. I cannot sing a note anymore.
My voice has gotten even scratchier than ever. But I thought,
you know what, maybe one day I'll pick up that
guitar again, and I'll find my voice and I'll sing.
(30:41):
Let's be clear, I'm not releasing any albums just for me.
Maybe I'll just sing at my house for me and
love to write songs. I used to write songs. Maybe
I love writing. I want to do some writing, you know,
I just you have to. I like daydreaming about a
future that has a lot. I want to learn language.
(31:01):
I want to learn Spanish. I know a little bit
because I grew up in Tucson, Arizona, you know, forty
five minutes from the border, so I know a little
bit of Spanish and took Spanish.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
But that's something I really want to do.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
So that's where what I'm manifesting are things that are
less about work and more about completing Me and the
Things I dream of.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
That was Savannah Guthrie, and if you want to hear
more from her, go watch Today, which airs weekday mornings
on NBC.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
Now.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
What with Burkeshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead
producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and
editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer
is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahied Fraser.
What do you do when life doesn't go according to
plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one,
or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this
is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told
by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down
with a guest to talk about the times they were
knocked off course and what they did to move forward.
(00:27):
Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all
are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and
every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice
answers one question, now what.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared
for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who
were like, hey, the SATs in May, are we studying.
Speaker 3 (00:58):
Parents at that?
Speaker 4 (00:59):
I mean no, they knew that when the essayt was
and I mean didn't even know to drive me to it.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
You know it was. I did it all on my own,
and you did too, Yeah I did.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
I mean I did it all in my I mean
my mom didn't even know deadlines to apply for college.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
They weren't asking me about my essay. They weren't, you know.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
No, none of it. That's what makes me laugh. Like
I asked my mom recently, I'm like, hey, Mom, you
know I got like, you know, pretty average on my
essayt you know, like, did you ever were you ever
thinking like maybe we should set up in one of
these prep courses or whatever, or did I And she said, no.
Speaker 5 (01:32):
Honey, was your test on my test?
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (01:35):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
I'm like, boom, that's Nancy Guthrie in a nutshell.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
My guest today is Savannah gut Thrie. Savannah is an
award winning journalist, a TV personality, an author, a former attorney,
a loving wife and mother, and so much more. She's
been with NBC for more than a decade, during what
she's moderated debates, covered some of the biggest news stories
(02:04):
of the decade, and has interviewed world leaders, celebrities, and
newsmakers alike. Savannah is razor sharp, empathetic, and incredibly down
to earth. We've met a number of times over the years,
and she's always a breath of fresh air. I hope
you enjoyed this interview as much as I do. Here
(02:26):
is Savannah Guthrie.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
I know how busy you are.
Speaker 4 (02:33):
I cannot even imagine, and next time when we get
a chance to talk, I want to do it in person.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Whether we're podcasting or not. I want to see you.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Absolutely, and I would like to have let's see what's
your cocktail of choice these days, because mine's still pretty
much tequila, but oh.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
My god, me too, vodka soda with like squeezed half
a lime and lots of ice.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
I call it a savinita.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Savanita. I like that, Hey, you're onto something, Thank you
so much. And I know that you're schedule is so
different than most people's, Like I don't think people I'm
friends with people who are also like in your industry
and they go to bed.
Speaker 5 (03:08):
At eight Loserville.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
Well no, but.
Speaker 4 (03:11):
Also it's actually kind of the times that I've done it,
there's something really kind of quiet and beautiful about the
time on both ends. Yeah, you were quoted once as
saying your perfect dinner time is four.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, you know, there's all these articles now that say
that in New York City, like six is the new
eight or five is the new seven, And I'm like, no,
I don't want anyone to find out this wonderful secret
that eating at five or four is really awesome.
Speaker 4 (03:38):
I always love hearing people talk about their early years.
My early years were all documented, so it's never a
surprise to anybody. What were you like as a little girl.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
You were from Tucson, you said, yeah, Tucson, Arizona.
Speaker 4 (03:53):
My godmother was from Tucson. So I spent so many summers.
You did Tucson, yep. And then we spent time in Prescott,
and we would like when we were being sort of fancy,
we'd go to Phoenix and we would go to the
Biltmore Wow, and I'd get to swim in that pool.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
It was sun Tea.
Speaker 4 (04:10):
Was the first time I ever knew about sun Tea
was was in Tucson.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
How have we never talked about this? I mean, this
is it's so unique. Most people have barely even heard
of Tucson, and here you were there in the summer,
so you know what it's like to be a kid
outside and how hot it is. By the way, you
also said Prescott, right, it's not Prescott's.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
No, it's not Prescott. It's Prescott.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
You're honorary arizonas I am.
Speaker 4 (04:34):
Actually, it's kind of crazy. So when you were the
youngest of three, yes, so you're the baby.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
What were you like? What was little Savannah.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Like you know, I think in some ways probably very
similar to how I am now. I was sensitive, really sensitive.
I was a pleaser, you know. I think I was
mostly a pretty good girl, not too too rebellious. I
wasn't very athletic, that remains true. I'm super clumsy, I
(05:04):
was chubby, I had curly hair.
Speaker 5 (05:06):
You know, I was.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I would very often be the last person picked on
those like the sports teams.
Speaker 5 (05:11):
It's not because people didn't like me.
Speaker 2 (05:13):
I just wasn't good at sports, so I would be
there like you know, or I was like the slowest.
Speaker 5 (05:18):
Sometimes I feel like that's.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Why I kind of had to develop a personality, because
because I wasn't going to be making it on my
looks and athleticism, let's just put it that way.
Speaker 3 (05:27):
Well, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
I was always picked last for dodgeball I and it
was because I was bigger than everybody, so I was
an easier tarketed.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I don't know if they still do that, but I
can't stand that practice of everyone lines up and they
have two team captains. It's excruciating, Like we pick so so,
and even your best friend, we'll pick someone else because
you know they want to win, and you don't blame them,
you know, you're like, but it's just so painful.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
And we've been doing it ever since then.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
I know.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
But I had a good childhood. I mean I was
like a pretty happy kid. I would say, but yeah,
look maybe a little awkward inside.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
Think, I mean, we're all a little awkward inside, but true.
So what dreams did you have for yourself as a
little girl.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
No, I didn't have really big career dreams, I don't think,
but I did. I have always had something of a
vision of myself. I knew i'd be standing up somewhere,
pointing to things and explaining things. So for a while
I was like, maybe I'll be a teacher, you know.
And I always kind of had that I will call
it a vision like that's I could see myself standing
(06:31):
up and being an explainer and a communicator, even though
I didn't have words for it then. So first I
thought teacher, Then I thought you know. Then I went
to school and I started getting into journalism and all that.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
And so it kind of jelled with that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And later when I went to law school, I was like,
maybe ILL meant to stand up in court make an argument.
So it all kind of it's all of a piece,
you know, kind of what I ended up doing matched
up with that.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
I mean, this is interesting because you were clearly not
a slacker as a little kid. And I read in
your Georgetown Law commencement speech, which in and of itself
is a beautiful thing to have in your roster. You
said something that I loved so much. You said, slackers
(07:17):
can turn it around.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Yes, I am living proof of that. I think as
a little girl, I was a pretty good student. I was,
you know, like I said, I think I was a
pretty good girl.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
When I got into.
Speaker 2 (07:28):
High school, I just was really checked out. You know,
I just wasn't very interested in school. I went to
a very big public high school. It was easy to
blend in, and I cut class a lot, Like, I
missed whole swaths of classes. I'd missed a test, So
(07:49):
I had very average grades, Like I mean, I barely
squeaked by.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Was it just not important to you or did you
just were like, what's this going to do for me?
Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think I just was like teenager who was more
interested in hanging out with my friends and smoking cigarettes.
And you know, I think in my family it was
my family it was a difficult time in my family.
Speaker 5 (08:09):
They were distracted.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
They there were a lot of hardships that the family
was going through. My grandparents had moved in with us.
My grandfather passed away. My father had a heart attack.
He ended up he passed away when I was sixteen,
actually junior in high school. They were very of course
I had wonderful parents, and they loved us and cared
for us. But they weren't the kind of parents who
were like, hey, the SATs in May are we studying.
Speaker 5 (08:33):
I mean, I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Even think my parents knew the SAT was coming up.
I mean, I actually think I forgot. That's why I
did so terribly on it. They just it's not that
they didn't care. Of course, they cared, And actually I
always felt that they really believed in me and felt
that I had a lot of talent and intelligence.
Speaker 5 (08:51):
And I think they felt that way about all of us.
Speaker 3 (08:54):
But it was a different era.
Speaker 5 (08:55):
It was a different era. They were not hovering parents.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
So if I wasn't going to keep up with my responsibilities,
they just were too overwhelmed by real issues in life
to try to like crack.
Speaker 5 (09:07):
Down on that.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
I mean, I'd get grounded or they say, why do
you get a d in geometry? But it just you know,
that's how it was, so I always laugh about it. Yes,
I was a pretty average to terrible student in high school.
I graduated, I went to college in my hometown. You know.
It wasn't until midway through college that things started to
click for me and I started getting interested and I
found journalism and I found writing, and I loved all that.
(09:30):
And I say I was a slacker, but I always
had a job at a job since I was fourteen
years old, So I wasn't like sitting around watching the
soapseding bond bonds.
Speaker 5 (09:38):
I worked really hard. I just wasn't much of a scholar.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
But in a way, I mean it laid the groundwork.
It's like you've been, I mean, in the healthiest way,
ambitious and focused and driven since then, because you had
to learn that at such an early age. But you
also had to deal with grief at such an early age. Yeah,
your father died suddenly. Yeah, and you were sixteen.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Yes, he had a heart attack. So when I was thirteen,
he had a heart attack. I think I was a
freshman in high school, and I don't think the kids.
I don't think we understood how serious that was. And
then three years later he had another heart attack and
that one was fatal, and he I mean, it was
so unexpected.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
How does that kind of loss, How does a loss
of that magnitude change you in the years that followed.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
I think it changes everything, you know. I always think
of it as like, you know, on our calendars we
have like BC and AD, there's like a before and after.
It's just like this stark dividing line. You know. It's
like there's before my dad died and there's after. And
it's profound.
Speaker 5 (10:47):
It takes.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I mean, grief is a lifelong process. I really believe that.
You know, there's a cute grief. There's different moments of grief.
But I remember thinking, even then, when I was a
late teenager, I always thought, I have a cup of
grief now, like it's like a cup of water, and
I'm going to spend the rest of my life emptying
this cup. And sometimes it's coming out in buckets, and
(11:10):
sometimes it's a little sprinkle, and sometimes I can just
hold it and nothing comes out. But every last drop
of this cup will not be empty until I leave
this world.
Speaker 5 (11:18):
I will always carry this grief.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It doesn't mean that I'm not happy, that I'm not joyous,
that I don't I mean, of course, but it's part
of me. This cup of grief is part of me,
and I think it made me more serious internally.
Speaker 5 (11:32):
When you lose a parent like that, so suddenly.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
It's so shocking. At sixteen, you just have some knowledge,
You just know something about the world that hopefully others
don't have to know.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Did it change your view of parenting, or taking risks
or health.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
It's hard to know.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I know it changed me and probably changed the whole
trajectory of my life. I mean, I often think that
I would have been totally different if my father had lived.
I just don't know that I would have chosen this career.
I don't know if I would have left home, I
might have stayed in my hometown. I don't know what
I would have done. Yeah, but I know fundamentally it
(12:14):
changed everything, and some things it changed for the better,
in the sense of I know that my heart is
more tender because of it, you know, I know, I
think you know. I wasn't afraid to talk to people
who are sad or in grief because I know what
it's like to be in grief, and I know that
(12:36):
pretty much there's nothing you can say that's going to
make them feel any worse. And that actually not everyone,
but when you lose someone, often the person wants to
talk about that. Like if somebody comes up to me
and has something to tell me about my dad, which
occasionally will happen on the process, someone will say, you know,
my uncle was cousins or my uncle was you know,
went to high school with your father and he always
(12:57):
said and I'm like, I can't hear enough of it.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
You've been open about infertility struggles and your IVF journey
with your husband. Yeah, I went through IVF seven times,
so I have complete empathy for you.
Speaker 3 (13:16):
When did you first start wanting to have children?
Speaker 2 (13:19):
Gosh, I think I always wanted to be a mom
and always hoped that I would be a mom, and
always kind of assumed that I would be a mom,
would get married and have kids, and I really wanted
to and in fact, that may have been the thing
I wanted more than anything else, more than any career.
I wanted to just go live happily a rafter and
be married and have kids.
Speaker 5 (13:38):
Like I think that's really was my biggest goal in life.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
And as luck would have it, I just was not
particularly successful in my personal life, like pretty much through
my twenties and thirties, you know, I mean, you know,
i'd like have a boyfriend for a couple of years
or did not really work out.
Speaker 5 (13:54):
I just couldn't, you know.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And then all my friends were getting married and oh
my gosh, then they started having babies, and I was
heartbroken about that. I mean, that was like, to me,
just my great trial and great tragedy. I so wanted
to be them. I so wanted to be married and
have kids, and I just couldn't find somebody who wanted
to marry me basically.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
And also, though you were working, I mean you were.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
I was. I was, and it is true. But I
think sometimes people are like, oh, you're probably too busy,
you know. You're like, I'm like, oh no, you have
to understand this about me. I'm not proud of this.
But I would have gotten off the work crazy train
in a heartbeat if I could have just fallen in
love and had kids.
Speaker 5 (14:36):
You know.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
I definitely wanted the fairy tale, so it was always
with me. Then in my thirties, I briefly I met someone,
we got married. It was short lived and it was just,
you know, just didn't work out. It was a sad situation.
And then I was really really crushed and sure that
I would never that it would never.
Speaker 5 (14:53):
Happen for me.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
So you know, I'm a person of faith, and I
will never stop more at my incredible blessing that somehow
I could be divorced at thirty five or thirty six,
that I could not get married for another five or
six years after that, and somehow, by the grace of God,
get to have my little girl, and then also by
(15:15):
the grace of God and IVF, get to have my
little boy.
Speaker 5 (15:18):
And I'll never be over that miracle.
Speaker 4 (15:21):
I mean, I was divorced at thirty eight, and by
the time I started having wanting to have kids, it
was just like, oh, this is not going to be
easy for you. And had it not been for IVF,
you know, I would not have any babies. I wouldn't
have any I wouldn't have my girls. And I've been
thinking about sort of that ownership of not just fertility
(15:45):
but sexuality and reclaiming and understanding my value and worth,
and it's so mind blowing to me the degree of
the treatment that was acceptable back then I've recently been
really looking back at my life, and in both of
our fields in news entertainment, were conditions for women, The
(16:08):
way women were viewed, the way we were all sexualized,
you know, the way we're spoken, to the way we're
dealt with. And I'm interested in your perspective on that,
because looking back, especially just as a young reporter, is
there a moment that stands out for you that was
indicative of that struggle?
Speaker 2 (16:30):
You know? It's interesting because I look at the women
who came before me, like Andrew Mitchell or Leslie Stahl
or Diane Sawyer, and I guess I keep it all
on perspective when I think about what they carried on
their shoulders and the way they cleared a path, And
sometimes I feel like they cleared that path and then
(16:52):
I sailed right through it.
Speaker 5 (16:53):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Barbara Walters was on the Today Show that she was
called a Today girl. She thought to have a seat
at the table, had there was when she first started
the co anchor, she wasn't allowed to even ask a
question until the co anchor had asked three her male
co anchor, and I just feel like I've gotten to
stand on her shoulders and Andrea's shoulders. I mean, Andrew
(17:16):
was like one of the leslie They were the only
women at the White House, you know, and I think
all women, I think a lot of people, but women
in particularly you feel and you just know that you
better be on your game. You know, you can't be
shallow and flighty. You have to be substantive. So I knew,
especially when I came to the White House to start
covering the White House, that was to this day the
(17:39):
most challenging assignment I've ever had. Why because it's so
it's just multi layered. The stakes are high, the spotlight
is bright. It yes, it's all of that. So you're like,
if you're at the White House or the network, like
you're at the top of what your network is expecting
from you. People are watching, they're scrutinizing. But also more importantly,
(18:02):
the issues that you're covering at the White House are
incredibly complex, and if you want to be any good
at it, you have to be pretty deep on policy.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
You know.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
I know that we cover a lot of politics, and
there's a lot of horse race and who's up and
who's down, But when you actually cover the White House
every day, you have to be an expert on our
nuclear policy, our education policy.
Speaker 5 (18:24):
Tax policy. I mean, you got to know this stuff.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
And if you want to be a good reporter and
you want to challenge some of those in power, you
got to be real deep on it. And I felt
so much anxiety. Well, I felt I could never know enough.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
Did you read constantly and study constantly?
Speaker 5 (18:41):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I tried to, but then sometimes I couldn't because I
was tired or I just wanted to go to bed,
and so then I would feel afraid, you know. And
I mean Andrea to this day, I don't know, maybe
not to this day, but when I worked with her
very closely, it's like Andrew would be like reading the
newspaper at two o'clock in the morning. I mean, she's
so incredible and so intense and so focused. And I
(19:03):
know that that there's an aspect of that that has
to do with my femaleness, knowing that I can't I
have to be prepared.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
I got to be on my game. I can't be
caught napping.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
But also part of the armor is the knowledge and
self advocating. How did you know and when did you
start learning really how to self advocate for yourself in
all of these situations.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Well, you know, it's so interesting and I would never
hold up my psyche as a model for any young
woman to follow, But it's worked for me. And you know,
I think that for most of my career and my
and my legal education, all of it, what propelled me
was fear. What propelled me was fear of failure.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It was ambitious in a certain way, but I wasn't
ambitious to win. I was ambitious not to fail. And
I don't I don't wish that perspective on my little daughter,
you know, I want her to come at it from a.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Different How do you do that?
Speaker 3 (20:08):
But how do you like that?
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And also by the way it works, like I not,
a little fear is not bad. No, it's not a
lot of fear is bad. Debilitating fear is bad. But
you know, in the first graduation speech I ever gave
was at my alma mater, the University of Arizona, and
I said to the students, fear of failure is good
for you.
Speaker 5 (20:27):
A little fear of failure is good.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And you know, like athletes will tell you this, if
I go out there and I'm not a little scared
to lose, then I've lost my edge. You have to
have a little nervous or actors you know this. I
mean you still get a little flutter when you're out
there on stage or for me, that means you're still
in the game, you still care.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
So you mentioned law school. You've been years in broadcasting
and you then decided to go to law school time
that does you know that?
Speaker 2 (21:01):
It was like one of those moments I had, you know,
worked really hard to get into local news. I was
doing it. I was in it about five and a
half six years. I had been covering a lot of
trials and legal issues. It was at that moment when
court TV was really big and the OJ trial and
all those and I was really like into watching that stuff.
So I got very interested in the law. And it
kind of goes back to our fear of failure discussion,
(21:23):
because it was really two things. One, I was interested
in the law, and secondly, I knew it was getting
to be time for me to try to move on
to a bigger market. You know, in television news, especially
back then, the trajectories started in a tiny little town,
small market media market.
Speaker 5 (21:39):
Big market. Well, I was in a medium market.
Speaker 2 (21:41):
It was time to try to reach that big market,
and honestly, I felt like I don't know if I'm
good enough. And I was so dreading that process and
having to send out your tapes. I could never do
your job, like what you guys have to do to
audition and like the way you feel like you're on
the ballot every day. Just the thought of having this
sent out those tapes in all the rejection. So I
(22:02):
was like, you know what I'm going to do. It
wasn't even time to do that. I was like, I'm
going to take the l SAT, the law school entrance exam,
and I'll see how I do, and I'll have it
in my back pocket. So if I can't get a
job in a bigger market, I can apply to law school.
Speaker 5 (22:17):
I know.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
I was like it was my plan B in a way,
like if I.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
That's crazy, your plan B is, man, I'm going to
get a law degree.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
That'll be my plan B. When you nuts, well.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Here's what's the crazy. This is like such a wild story,
So I'll let all the deadlines pass. I took the
L side. It was like December nineteen ninety eight. Everything passed.
There was no way I was going to law school.
I got a letter out of the blue in the mail.
Let's say it was February nineteen ninety nine from Georgetown
Law saying, the deadlines for applications have expired, but we
(22:48):
will extend it for you if you apply by March fifteenth.
And I was like, what is this letter and why
am I getting it? But I looked at it as like, oh,
you know, an invitation. So I sent off that application,
got in two weeks later, and just decided to go.
You know, I just felt like, this is a door,
It's my job to walk through it. I'm terrified. I
(23:10):
don't even know if I'm done with TV. I'm excited
to go to law school. I'm excited to move across
the country, go to Georgetown.
Speaker 5 (23:15):
What a dream? And so I went for it.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
And then you pivot back to journalism after huge success
in Georgetown Law.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
What's wrong with me? Why do I keep blowing up
perfectly good careers?
Speaker 4 (23:29):
Listen, you could pivot tomorrow and decide you want to
change careers.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So I went, you know the long story short. As
I went to law school, I got a job at
a law firm. I had this clerkship with a federal judge.
All lined up, and those in law school. That's a
big deal. To go work for a federal judge is
like your path has said, that's your pedigree. Now you're
like you're on your way. And I was about to
come work for the judge. It was going to be
(23:54):
in September, and I had I just I couldn't shake
the feeling that wasn't really what I wanted. Like this
whole legal path was there and I liked it, but
I had this secret dream of wanting to be a
legal correspondent. I wanted to be on the national news.
I wanted to make it in the network, you know.
And that was a very far fetched idea where I
(24:16):
was sitting in Washington, d C. At a law firm.
But I decided that if I'm going to do it,
I can't go. I got to do it now. So
I called the judge, which this never happens, like you
don't quit a clerkship before you begin, but I did.
And he said come in and see me, and I said,
I tried to explain it to him. Look, I have
(24:37):
this dream. This is what I meant to do. And
he said, well, do you have a job offer? And
I said no, sir, And then he said, well do
you have any leads or prospects. I mean, why now?
And I said, no, I have nothing, and he's like, well,
I get it. You know it's your dream.
Speaker 5 (24:55):
Come why do you come, clerk.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
It's just a year and then you can go do
I get it, Go chase your dream. Then only going
to be enhanced by this experience.
Speaker 5 (25:01):
You'll make contacts. Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
And I said, Judge, I know that you're right, this
makes perfect sense, but I know myself and if I
don't do it now, I'm never going to have the
courage again. And so he just kind of said, Okay.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
I'm glad he didn't go down the ego route of
telling you you've made a huge mistake and blah blah
blah he did with me. And what I mean like that,
that's that's a fair and equitable, a good human.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
And by the way, let's be clear, I kind of
let him left him in the lurch because now he's
got a job to fill. These jobs had been filled
years prior. So he was, he is and was a
wonderful person.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
You have been with NBC since two thousand and seven.
That's a long long time.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Not many people can can say that Yeah, what is
the most challenging moment for you that you've ever had
to handle on air?
Speaker 5 (25:51):
Gosh?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
Well, I mean, you know, unfortunately, we've had a few.
I mean, there have been challenging moments in the news.
I mean challenge in terms of covering really hard stories,
really complicated stories, especially in the beginning, you know, when
I was just starting out. I mean in twenty thirteen,
I was pretty darn new in the job, and the
(26:13):
Boston Marathon bombing happened, and four days after that, there
was you may recall, you know, all through the night
they found those suspects and they shut down the city
of Boston, and it was during our era, and I
just happened to be alone on set that day and
we anchored for seven hours straight. And that's a moment
(26:34):
where you have an American city sheltering in place out
of fear of a terrorist attack and it's you. You know,
that is a challenging moment on air, like I cannot
mess this up. We have to have our facts unassailable,
we have to have the tone be correct. So those
there are a lot of moments like that, and then,
(26:55):
of course, you know, I think there have been moments
ups and downs the network and at the show, and
those have been hard to you know, those are moments
that break your heart. And I think what has gotten
me through is just trying to put my head down
and do the job and recognize how lucky I am
(27:17):
to do it. The Today Show is full of beautiful, brilliant, hilarious,
top of the game people, and it's so much more
than anyone you see on TV.
Speaker 4 (27:27):
I don't know if you knew this, but there was
a moment when I was going to literally come in
and it was it was such an exciting time because
it was on the Today Show. Yeah, the Today Show.
So I was co hosting with Willie Geist and we
were doing the whole whole week and so and it
was it was just it was in that hour, not
in the in the earlier hour, but it was in
(27:49):
the nine o'clock hour, and we had the best time,
and people were like, oh, this is this is going
to be great. And then the people in charge called
my agents. We sat down and they asked if I
was interested, and I did all the homework and I
was already and then all of a sudden, someone else
got someone else was put in that place.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
You would have been great at it. I didn't know
all that, but you would have been great. And I
know we love Willie. He's like, I know, he's a
of yours too.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
God.
Speaker 4 (28:15):
Yeah, it was uh, it was right down to the
I mean we were in totally go like the whole thing,
and then all of a sudden they they gave it
to somebody else and and then that ended up eventually
not working out. But but it was it was kind
of crushing, but it was also for me, it was
like it was I called the show now What? And
(28:36):
for me that was a now what moment because I thought, Okay, Brook,
I don't fight being a personality. And I've had many
now what moments in my life and that that was
sort of one of them. When it was when I
was approached to do this and I'm just interested always,
and then the unexpected things and that just sort of
pop into our lives, whether they're spiritual or professional or personal.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
And looking back, for you, is there a pivot now
what moment for you?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
I mean yeah, I mean probably my biggest now whats
were personal? You know, like I told you when I
wasn't you know, I found myself divorced at thirty five
or thirty six, and you know, just like now what
do I do?
Speaker 5 (29:15):
You know, what about what's going to happen?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
You know, I poured myself into work, and I'm so
grateful and lucky that it wasn't the end, you know,
and that there was this wonderful future waiting for me,
my kids and my family and my husband. Like that's
the most important thing to me. That is my life's work.
It's what I care most about. And I always think
you kind of alluded to this earlier. It's like, yes,
(29:40):
I probably wished that I could have had kids earlier,
if I could have written my own script or written
my own life. But I wouldn't want any other kids
but Vail and Charlie. I want those babies, and I
would have waited forever just for them.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
There's always more.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
I mean, I have on an entire platform that I've
been again, and it's about being in your fifties and
or forties and up and I'm fifty eight, but like
being in this era of our lives and realizing there
is more. Oh, it's the best manifesting it for yourself,
Like what are you manifesting for yourself? Like what are
you excited about? And manifesting for yourself in this current future.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
You know what, I daydream all the time about my future,
and I think of it less in work ways. I
think of it as I was just thinking about this
this morning. You know, I used to love to sing
and play the guitar. I cannot sing a note anymore.
My voice has gotten even scratchier than ever. But I thought,
you know what, maybe one day I'll pick up that
guitar again, and I'll find my voice and I'll sing.
(30:41):
Let's be clear, I'm not releasing any albums just for me.
Maybe I'll just sing at my house for me and
love to write songs. I used to write songs. Maybe
I love writing. I want to do some writing, you know,
I just you have to. I like daydreaming about a
future that has a lot. I want to learn language.
(31:01):
I want to learn Spanish. I know a little bit
because I grew up in Tucson, Arizona, you know, forty
five minutes from the border, so I know a little
bit of Spanish and took Spanish.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
But that's something I really want to do.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
So that's where what I'm manifesting are things that are
less about work and more about completing Me and the
Things I dream of.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
That was Savannah Guthrie, and if you want to hear
more from her, go watch Today, which airs weekday mornings
on NBC.
Speaker 5 (31:36):
Now.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
What with Burkeshields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our lead
producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research and
editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive producer
is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Bahied Fraser.
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