December 3, 2025 • 34 mins
In this episode, Knowa sits down with Fulton County Sheriff Pat Labat of Atlanta, Georgia — the man behind some of the most viral moments in modern criminal justice, from former President Trump’s mugshot to the celebrity cases cycling through Fulton County Jail. Building on Knowa’s growing curiosity about criminal justice reform, the conversation revisits last episode’s look at the Young Thug case and expands on how high-profile arrests shape — and often distort — the public’s understanding of the system.
Sheriff Labat then pulls back the curtain on what the headlines miss: chronic underfunding from the Fulton County Commission, overcrowding, staffing shortages, and bottlenecks created when judges, public defenders, and district attorneys don’t have the resources they need. He explains why the spectacle gets all the attention, but the systemic imbalance causes the real harm.
The conversation also dives into the impact of no-cash bail, the importance of strong legal representation, and the human cost of long pretrial waits — told through Sheriff Labat’s experience and Knowa’s evolving lens on justice, culture, and civic responsibility.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now you know and no deve Brosso is a production
of iHeartMedia and partnership with Recent Choice Media. All right,
today we're going to hear from Fulton County Sheriff Patrick Leabat.
Patrick Lebot represents Riy Street. So for those across the
country wondering what is Rice Street, Rice Street is not
just Atlanta jail. Whenever your favorite entertainer comes Atlanta and
(00:22):
might get in some trouble, they're getting be booked at
Rice Street. And a lot of the complaints we hear
across the country at Rice Street has bad jail conditions.
When you think of Pat Leabat, you think of the
day where he bravely said, Donald Trump, you're gonna have
to take a mug shot like everyone else. Everyone has
who has came through these doors has taken a mug shot,
and you're not coming in the right way. So you're
(00:43):
going to take a mug shot just like everybody else.
That was the sheriff that we're going to speak to today. Okay, well,
how are you, Sheriff?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I am outstanding, Well.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Sheriff, I'm just I'm so excited to have you here
on the Criminal Justice and it was it was truly
a first priority to make sure you were here as
soon as possible.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I appreciate it, you know. I love the way you move,
I love the way you network. I wish many of
our youth were able to be in that same vein
and same space. And so I'm excited for you, right,
I mean, it's our heart podcast, right, this is where
people wish they could be, and for you to be
here at such a young age, really it's promising for.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I really appreciate it. And you always would prefer to
see him in the classroom over the courtroom. Absolutely, that's
your thing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Absolutely, we want to interrupt that cycle. Yeah, we want
that prison pipeline, that supply line. We want to want
to interrupt that cycle and really be thoughtful about how
we do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So we're going to have a very fun episode today
and I'm really looking forward to So, Sheriff, we spoke
a little about youth and what we'd like to see
him doing. Tell me about the classroom courtroom pipeline that
we were just speaking about.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So one thing that we're doing to help disturb that pipeline,
if you will. As you know, we have done or
created an environment where every other Friday, we do carpool
Fridays with elementary schools and really so that that first
introduction to law enforcement is not a negative one. There
you go, so that we can focus on being positive
(02:18):
role models, making sure there was a time when everybody,
especially it was before you, right, kids and alike, would
be Okay, I want to be a firefighter, I want
to be a police officer, those kinds of things. And
the model has changed, and so whether it be what's
presented in front of them, the access that you all
(02:38):
have on phones now and so it's more of an
instant gratification piece, and we want to interrupt that model,
remind people that hard work will get you where you
want to be, but ultimately giving back to our community.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
That's right. And I think I think your main thing,
like we said, was classroom, not in the courtroom. And
so a lot of the people I said, yeah, I
know the sheriff Fulling County is a great place. They're
well taken care of us. You know the sheriff in
a good way or I'm going, of course, don't do
don't play dumb. So I think the first introduction should
always be to get to know your sheriff in a
positive way, right.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I appreciate that, and because you know right as well
as y'all as a young folks saying when you know
you know right? So to that point, you've written around
with me on election day.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And asolutely I shared at the stage.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Am Now.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
The first time we did one of these interviews was
not in the studio. We recorded it while we were
eating and so I was like, I want to get
an opportunity to have a formal conversation, and now we
get to have it, don't we.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Get to have it? And I could not be more proud.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So what I want to get into today in our
Criminal Justice series is today I wanted to talk to
you about the shady you've You've really messed up my
image of what I used to see in the Fulton
County Commission. And now every time someone tells me they're
a candidate for fulls and County commissioner or they're a
fullsc County commissioner, I say, look what I get right
to it how they're treating the shriff. So tell me
about the situation with the Fulton County Commission not wanting
(03:59):
to fund their jail.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So where we lie now is still having conversations. So
regardless to what side of the hol you sit on,
as long as we're able to communicate, we're able to
potentially make progress. And so here recently the board, instead
of the recommended five thy five hundred beds we need
based on the jail feasibility study, there has been a
(04:23):
realization that we need at least eighteen hundred beds. But again,
that is a long term project, and that's still one
point two billion dollars. And so when we're able to
have that conversation, it brings people around a little more
realistically to be able to say this is still an
eight year project. And so when the newspapers reached out
(04:43):
and said, well, Sheriff, how do you feel? I feel
as though at least four of the seven commissioners have
finally come around to what I said we needed in
twenty twenty one. I've been very transparent about that. But ultimately,
any long term projects that does not provide immediate relief
for the Sheriff's office continues to keep us in this
(05:06):
hamster wheel, right, keep us turning our gears and not
making a whole lot of carrying a lot of momentum
into this. And so what I I equate it to
when I asked, is I appreciate the attempt because something's
better than nothing? But it is like saying, we're in
a burning building and we're going to build a fire
station next door in five years, so we need immediate
(05:29):
action and go for it. No, I was just going
and the people that we serve need immediate relief, and
so we just have to do a better job. And
you've heard me say this of reading tomorrow's newspaper today
so that we can share our vision and be on
one accord.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, And so really, what I want to get into
today's Criminal Justice episode is that it's so important to
a lot of people jail conditions, but they do not
quite realize what it takes to get there. So they
look at the first face they see, they google who's
in charge of this jail, they'll see someone and then
put the blame on it. So what is your message
to those that may say, hey, how is this the
(06:06):
Fulton County Commissions fault? And what do you call on
the Fulton County Commission to do right now?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So really good questions, and so let's unpack that. First
thing we have to keep in mind is that we
don't own the jail. The Fulding County Commission that owns
the jail, or the county as a whole, they own
the facility. Now, as you unpack that to your very
good point, let's for your listeners, let's take this journey
down this road.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's a criminal justice failure.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Shriff, don't play you so silly.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's a criminal justice failure, right, and that means that
the public defenders don't have enough resources, the judges don't
have enough resources, a DA don't have enough resources, and
so when we have individuals who've been inconcerated for five
to ten years, that's a problem for a jail. We
need to fix the system overall the system and understand
that people are human and we need to move them
(06:53):
through the system making sure they have the right representation
so that we can lessen the number of people in
any facility. Doesn't matter how old the facility is is,
if it's overburdened by the criminal justice system not really
moving fast enough, people are going to suffer.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So would you say, if to a criminal justice advocate,
which is featured in this episode, what would be your
call to action to them?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, the first thing I would say, and that's a
really good question. The first thing I would say is,
if you take the time to listen to what I
have said since I took office one p one twenty one,
many times I sound more like a union leader fighting
for our women and men who I'm so proud of
that go and work.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And they love you. By the way. Everyone else has
their petty criticisms on Twitter that aren't even in Fulton County.
But your officers love you.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I love and it's mutual. Right. We're asking young people
to go into a very dangerous situation night after night,
day after day, and they are standing up for our
community and making it happen. Those criminal justice advocates you
talk about, while on the surface they look for somebody
to blame, but if they really peel back that you
know what I've been saying for five years, they'll say,
(08:03):
we're fighting for the same thing. We're fighting to treat
people in a more humane fashion. We're fighting to get
the number of people that we had a jail feasibility
study that shows how many beds we need, but not
just beds, how many medical beds and mental health beds
we need. Right now, we have thirty four. We need
five hundred. We have to position ourselves to treat people
(08:23):
in our community better. If people take the time to listen,
we're really singing from the same hymnal. And it's just
how it goes across.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, what does your dream right Street look like?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, it's a reimagined right Street. It is like reimagining
the training facility that the Atlanta Police Department just put together.
They put together one of the best in class facilities
that there is. So when you talk about dream, you
talk about not just a dream, but the possibilities that
come with better technology, better medical care, better mental health care,
(08:59):
all of those things. And this is what I remind people.
They're almost fifty acres up there on at nine to
one Rice Street, So no one can say we want
a facility in our backyard, when in fact, we already
have a facility in your backyard. And so to that extent,
it should be a place where women and men are
proud to go to work in. It's like having an
(09:20):
opportunity to get it right as opposed to continue to
kick the can down the road. And so ultimately a
lot of hard work and a lot of recruitment that
is required to get people to stay that we don't
have a recruitment problem. We have a retention problem, and
so we recruit people, train people, then they go to
the other metro areas because it's a little easier. But
(09:43):
at the same time, in many instance they have better benefits.
So we're not going to be able to eliminate crime altogether,
but we can go after those bad actors and make
sure that they're hell responsible, but we have to do
it in a humane fashion.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
That's right and moving away from conditions. And now you know,
we know dey brosso, We'll be right back. I think
Rice Street is also an entertainment thing, and I'm so
so tired of hearing people hear their favorite R and
B singer, whoever may be, get locked up and Rice Street.
You're like, eh, so, what is your message to those
(10:19):
fans of those people that might get locked up on
one day and they're mad at you?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, first, in the DA first of all, don't be
mad at me because you got caught, right, that's the
first thing. Secondly, and this is interesting when we talk
about the generations that glorify Rice Street, right, did my
time at reich Street. You look at and I say
this to one of my favorite artists, making no bones
about it. I say this to Ti every time I
(10:46):
seen him. Right, his one of his first hit songs
was made while he was locked up in Rece Street, right,
and so yeah, he got the street cred for it
for it and I was not the share, but I
tell I remind him all the time he needs to
go pay the then share whatever royalties there were that
came from from him being locked up and creating his
hit songs. So for us, it's about an opportunity. You
(11:07):
look at the Jeffrey Williams, the young Thug trial, what
took two years to get through. Well again, people are
still people, and it's an opportunity for us to even
leverage that relationship. And so yes, we had had a
pop up concert on the courthouse step.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I wanted to ask you about that. What is his
what is his community service looking like right now?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
This community his community service is off the charts, right,
But more importantly is the commitment. And this is what
I was proud of. Some people will say, Okay, we
want to have a pop up concert, but he's not
only stood by that, he continues to really promote anti
gangs anti violence and share and that's one of the commitments, right,
(11:52):
That's one of the things is how do we how
do we engage in our community? Take this as a
lessons learned and then we get better for it. And
he's been very.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Like his music Share do you like Young Thug's music?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So I do have to sit back and absorb it, right,
But the amazing thing to me was to watch the
number one rapper in the world have so many people
show up. I share, you can pull up anytime you
want to. Now you a little different.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
You made your bones right, You've earned that, and you
know you got my personal number. You know you come.
You can pull up anytime you want.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Ultimately, his intentionality about giving back to the community because
it's not just me. You'll find him talking to young
kids and schools. I cooked him into the Big Brothers
and Big Sisters. So they're going to have a charity
concert around that and really helping our community more than
what people actually believe.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
How long is he on that? How long is this
shareff you get some time with Doug? How long do
you get your time with Doug Share?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, it's become a relationship that has benefited our community
more than anything. So I look at myself as a vessel, right,
how do we continue to send a message? In one
of the first things he said before he gave that
concert was I want to see young people come through
the front of the courthouse as lawyers, as the DA
as people that can help our community, and not the
(13:11):
way he spent two years. That's a strong message. That's
a message that a person has actually learned from where
they come from, where they came from. And so as
long as there's a community engagement focused there. Again, him
and Dominique Jones, you know him, his little baby, right,
they are what who we're talking about. Right, But again,
(13:35):
when it's time to show up for our community, whether
it be toys, right, come to shop with a sheriff.
On December thirteenth, my team will confirmed.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
My website was the website.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's still the Sheriff's website.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Want to make sure everyone's there who can be there.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Absolutely make sure and even if you don't register, we
will make sure we're taking care of kids. And again,
just left a senior center where we just gave away
seventy five one hundred tuckers and food. Right, this is
a holiday season, and so both of them as well
as our sheriff's office, just the sheriff's offices alone, we've
created almost one hundred giving baskets. What we donate back
(14:11):
to the community and really just try and lean in
and the time of service.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, what's the dot org website from.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The registry, you know, FCSOGA, dot org, dot org.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
There you go. And I think the really, I think
you're really doing something really important with the You usually
expect the sheriff's office to maybe evict, arrests, et cetera.
And so when I see your sheriff's office in the
district attorney's office doing these things for the community, it's
really it's really powerful. So on the Criminal Justice series,
I kind of wanted to break down the myths about
(14:42):
jail conditions and everything like that. So if you could
challenge any misinformation, what would it be.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
First of all, we're getting better, right, We've been very
intentional about what that looks like. But again, and I
say this all the time, if you got ready to
go home and there was a red tag on your
your condo, your home, your apartner, and it said that
eighty percent of the building was out of life cycle
and you had to move. We call it a clue.
And so while we have been very intentional working with
(15:09):
the federal monitors, working with the county of trying to
get trying to improve conditions, we're not going to give
that fight up. And it goes back to what you say,
if I were to sit if we were sitting here
with some activists, we're literally saying some of the same things.
It's just a matter of how we deal with that
in a unified manner, so that we are constantly looking
(15:31):
through the fine lines of the paperwork that's being pushed.
And so where you have some commissions would like to
push a message of raising taxes, well that wasn't the
only proposal. There were opportunities to build a replacement facility
using bonds or using public private partnerships. And the notion
(15:54):
that we have never done this before is the only
reason we're not doing it is something we need to
look at as a societal problem. Is because we're so
used to doing things a certain way that if we
continue to do things a certain way, you wouldn't have
your own podcast, right, somebody would tell you you too
young to move into this space. Well, you've bucked that
(16:16):
system and people have given you a chance, and we
need to give some of these new things a chance.
I tell people all the time when they start talking
about well, this is how it used to be, this
is how it used to be. Well it used to
be is don't make honey. You know, we're in a
space you can steal that one next week.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right, I'm still that one.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So we're in a space where we have to read
tomorrow's newspaper today and be visionary about how we help people.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, and so I think I think I wanted to
dive into that tax thing. I saw a proposal I
believe it was a new jail and raise tax a
little bit. What would the sales tax rate have turned into?
This is more of a local things to aside from entertainment.
What is the what would the sales tax have been
in Atlanta compared to what it is now? There I've
been in New Jail. What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So ultimately, what I have seen, again, this is the counting.
It's the adjustment of the military. And so when you're
talking about fifty to sixty dollars on a person's house,
that is less than four hundred thousand dollars and then
a certainly adjustment above that. It is not very steep,
but for some people depends on where you are.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
That's an extremely was it a sales SiZ property tax?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
So it's property tax, and so again an opportunity to
your very point, right, do we take a sales tax
and do we split a penny and increase it? Now,
Fulding County has a pretty high sales tax?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Oh yeah, sheriff, Oh yeah, y'all, Wow with that one.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Really, y'all, y'all, I got to give you so sure,
I got it. So to that extent, it's just a
matter of how you finance it.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, when I think of Folds and County, I think
you share.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, that's a blessing.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It's a blessing, that's right. And so I wanted to
speak a little bit about So we've talked about young
thug and all of that.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Have you had a lot of fun selling him, being
able to say, hey, I want you to speak to
these kids, I want you to do this. What is
it been? His community service been fun?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So it's been fun from the perspective that he actually
calls or his attorney will call me and say this
is what he wants to do, right, and to see
the excitement that goes along with that, and to be
a little part of that momentum that allows us to
give back to the community as a whole. I mean,
who knew, right, it's number one rap in the world. Right.
(18:28):
We've been very intentional about how we not overuse that,
but using in a space that is very positive. And
he's been very receptive to all of that as.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
We're not abusing it, we're doing the right There you go,
there we go. Now, a lot of the sheriff hate
comes from a very powerful decision, which was to make
Trump get the mudshot like everyone else. Are you still
loving that decision.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
As one of my friends would say, yes and right,
and so it was the right thing to do. And
let's be very clear, I've thought about it, and we've
talked about this off offline. I took some time to
think about it. The understanding because you had the FBI
Secret Service to marshals everybody call in and say, Okay,
here's the number one person in the world in terms
(19:12):
of the most recognizable person in the world. Well, y'all
have me have a problem with me taking young thugs picture,
all right, he's number one rapp in the world. Or
we process eighteen to twenty thousand young men and women
that look like us every year. You don't have problem
with me taking their monk shot. And so now the
(19:33):
only mistake I made was I didn't copyright or trademark, right,
And so from my understanding, the president made thirty five
million dollars. You can't be mad at that, right, But
if I had a percentage of that, I probably wouldn't
even be here. No, I'd probably be on a beach somewhere,
you know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Would they have let you copyright it?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, we could have, and in the county would have
been a beneficiary, right because essentially I worked for the voters.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yo, would have broke bread though, right, Yeah, we find
a way.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
He too, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Looking you.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's not a president you hadn't met, not a vice
president you hadn't met, And so I expect before the
end of this term the same thing will hold true.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I appreciate it. And then another thing with that, before
I let you go and clean the streets and make
us safe, is that I really want to dive deep
into this theory that he had to get a muck shot.
No one else did, and so it's so silly that
everyone has been to Ristreet has gotten a muck shot.
So what at that day would Secret Service there look like?
(20:35):
FBI all that really good question because you're a security
don't play I'm more scared of your security. FBI.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
No, don't even try it. So we said we did.
They do a really good job that we talked about
it for a couple of weeks on end. And I
feel like this is so productive and perceptive because you've
been there, you understand it, you can imagine it. But
until they told me he was wheels down, I hadn't
(21:01):
made a decision till he was halfway through the streets
of Atlanta and coming through buying the city, and hadn't
made a decision. And I'm walking back and forth just
I'm like, okay, who does this right? And so break
well not just break it to him. And I have
said this both publicly and privately. When he came in
(21:21):
and he was probably he was presidential stoic, right, and
so you have there's a fine line between looking at
what you see on TV and understanding what's in front
of you. And it's a moment in history. It is
one that will forever be etched in history, and we
(21:43):
as a sheriff's office and me as a sheriff, are
a moment in that history. And so I could not
be I could not afford anyone to be treated differently.
And so again I've had people comment on both sides
of the hour, but it was one that we worked
really closely with our team to accomplish. So the notion
(22:03):
that he was tortured and all the rest, it didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
He was in and out, and he did it as
a sheriff, not as a Democrat.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Correct. I don't have the luxury of answering people's calls
and or responding to people if you're Republican, a Democrat,
or independent or blue green, purple, black, red, it doesn't
matter to me. We have a responsibility to uphold the
morals and the pieces of the office that make shares different.
(22:30):
And so to that extent, again, he was very stoic
when he came in. We had obviously enough security. He
spent more time. I did.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And again when I say I was very intentional about
want to meet him, because I did not want any
mischaracterizations of how he was treated. So he came in,
we shook hands, he took his now infamous picture right,
made his money from that. He spent a total of
seven or eight and it's on the inside, and then
(23:02):
went back to his lawyers, limousino to the motor case.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I noticed that there wasn't a picture of YouTube, just
a mug shot. Yeah, if you really wanted it, because
you have gotten a flip, you know, you and you
and you and Trump.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, I probably could have, but probably wasn't worth it. Right,
It'll been. It's been a lot more turmoil to go
with it. And so I'm proud of our team how
they handle that in and out, and so regardless of
any rhetoric that's put out afterwards, keep in mind that
mug shot in the head of the New York Times.
It's sitting outside the Oval office. So I'll send you a.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Clip of that, Yes, send that a copywriter.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Share.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
We got to find a way.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
We might have missed that boat, but we did miss
the history that comes along.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I don't want everyone wants to know the sheriff security
is more scary than that. No.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, we do a good job.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
We do a great job. We do a good job,
and you run a tight ship at that Sheriff's office.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I gotta see that job. I'll come and see it.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Come on and then we'll we'll we'll get you in
and out of that trump.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Right, well, hey, look as much as you want to see,
you know, we're in an open book, and then really
sit down at some point and talk about some of
the renderings of drawings for what they knew special purpose
building might look like. So you'll get a hit of
the current.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I want to see it. I want to see we
got to hit a quick break, So don't go anywhere
you're listening to now, you know, in the same episode
that we're filming today, we'll have someone from the Wrongful
Convictions podcast and what is your message to the court
system that are facing wrongful convictions and wrongfully convicting those
(24:37):
that all you have to do is book them and
make sure they're safe, and that's that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Well, we're in the middle of that, right, you're absolutely right.
So yes, we book people, but we also create an
inmate advocacy unit. And what that unit is is they
go through day after day, charge after charge and resident
after resident to focus on what can we do better?
And if they are getting the proper rep presentation. And
(25:01):
so you can ask the public defender. There are a
number of times a week or a month, I'll call
him because somebody told me, well, we hadn't seen our
public defender in two months. Most of that's hyperbole. They
hadn't they been seen. They just maybe didn't understand and
what was going on? And so how do we work
with the DA? The public defenders listed to General Keith
(25:21):
Gamage and his team too.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Like the clerk sh Alexander comes in there too, right,
she does.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
She comes in clerk, not Auntie Clerk. I alight show
you heard that? So you need to come only get
on his podcast. But she is a vital part of
this community that allows us to get records on time,
make sure that they are accurate, and then process people
to the next phase and what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, and so in this episode we have wrongful convictions
hosts and what we spoke what we spoke about was
cash bell or no cash bell. Where are you on
that if you if you care to speak on that
as a share.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
So I believe there's a space for judges to make
those decisions. We elect them for a reason. And so
whether judge says someone gets a cash bill, we put
that in there in their wheelhouse to deal with. I
have watched some of the new laws dealing with no
cash bell really have our daily population rise. We had
(26:19):
gotten our daily population down to twenty three hundred, down
from thirty six hundred, and so now it is slowly
corupt back up to nearly three.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thousand people as a result of no cash bell right.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
As a result right, and so that they are where
there are opportunities for us to meet in the middle
and get better at it. I think we have to see.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I appreciate that shirt because the activists don't know that
statistics that's so powered. I was sitting here like, oh,
we got to get no cash bell, no cash bail.
I didn't make an official position, but I just learned
something there that's powerful.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And the piece that where our legislators have gotten together,
and for instance, we would have senators and the like
House of representatives come on Father's Day, on Mother's Day
say I want to bail out one hundred people. When
they do that, well it can anymore. So they change
the stable. And so if you bail out three people
(27:09):
in a year's time. That fourth person, now you can
be charged with the mister, meaning and.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Wait what happened against.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
So let's say you can get all your sponsors all right,
and you come down there and know it bails out
three people. When you get that fourth person to get
ready to be bailed out, you then can be charged
with the crime.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I know, I keep saying, y'all, y'all, don't play.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
It's not us, it's not us. Keep it right. So
even the bail bond project was very it has been
very instrumental over the years of saying these people meet
certain standards, certain requirements, and they're safe to be back
on the street. Well, and even now judges don't sign
signature bonds. They have a judicial unsecured judicial release that
(27:51):
tracks who is being released and holds them a little
more accountable, but ultimately made it tougher for people to
get out of the facilities.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, what's your message to Xoneries.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, again, that's that's good representation. I truly have seen
day after day, week after week, month after month where
people have been incarcerated without good attorneys. And so when
you look at it, with ninety three percent of the
people we have in concrated on Rice Street or the
Fulton County facilities. They're represented by public defenders. Most of
(28:26):
those public defenders are new out of law school and
or in a space where they've not really gone through
the system. There you go, but again, those things happen, right,
and so I'm a firm believer and really good representation.
You go back to Jeffrey Williams.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
You're calling young thug, you thug sharing.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
But when you can afford Brian Steele, right, that's a
whole different conversation. I love Brian Still and make no
bones about it, right, and again, he is a real
life harvespector. I know you you never watched what was that? Suits?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I don't know what Harve respector?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Okay, so go watch Brian Still though, Right, he's the
real life Harve respector, So go watch suits.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Do you have a spider shirt spider hoodie?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I do not. I'll get us one to match.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
There we go. We gonna do it. We're gonna do it.
And I think entertainment Rice Street is so interlinked. So
have you ever just seen like an R and B
singer who is known for these stilly, these these songs
that are sweet and nice and then they go to
Rice Street.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I see it all, see it all. So, whether it
be it the Atlanta Housewives, the Potomac Housewives, keep in
mind Thornton on, hold on now, So you got to
keep in mind what ends up happening is if it
happens or you're accused of doing something bad in Fulton County,
the largest county in the state of Georgia, then you're
(29:50):
gonna come to Right Street.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
You know, I have someone We're gonna keep him anonymous,
a family member. I was at a family event and
I was like, moodiful the county. They take good care
of people. It's lower, lower property taxes in some places. No,
I don't want to go to Right Street.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
If something happens, it's not it's not a training ground
it is. It is not where you want to train people.
So on the job training, No, on the job training.
And keep in mind though, so I was in law
enforcement long before Rice Street ran the city jail. And
so if it happens in Atlanta's Hollywood is the South,
and so there's a long list of superstars, both white
(30:26):
and black, that have ventured in between the two doors. Right,
whether it be two fifty four p Street Street and
a C D C or nine on one right Street.
If it happens bad in Fulding County, we'll see we'll
lead a light on for you. Y What is like?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
How are y'all treating me? At? How a mea doing?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Hey? Look again, we treat everybody saying so again, she
has ability to get some good attorneys, so I expect
how to have I didn't say that, say that, I say.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That, Okay, what is getting? Marine? Still look like a.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Lot more in both of you and our man's hilarious. Yeah,
he is the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
He's gonna get you right though.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Well again, he's wanted all over the world too. So
you gotta be in a position where you can, you
can afford good represent work hard for it, har for it.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
And so I think the center of the Criminal Justice
series and in this episode, by the way, just really
educate people. I heard from an activist who hosts wrongful Convictions.
I'm here for someone who deals with this every day.
It is such an honor to have you on and
I'm so thankful you could share your perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
No, thank you, thank you for having us, thank you
for always supporting the right thing. I look forward to
bigger and better things from you, right, and so just
let me know when we're cranking up your first campaign. Sut.
A young man from Clark and Land.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
University saw that you love Clarkshare.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Absolutely absolutely, but he just won. Is it mayor Stop County? Yeah? Yeah,
So I'm looking for similar things from you, and you
can be the youngest of all, so I'm excited about it.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Speaking of Henry County, whenever we leave Folkton County, we
be like, Okay, Sheriff's on done for we and somebody
else's hurt.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I need to get you a cowboy hat.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I've never worn one. I gotta wear one.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Okay, I need to get you one.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You think of a boost on the ground cowboy hat?
And sure if you arrest people like.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Physically, I don't physically my team though, are you allowed to?
I could if I needed to?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Really, have you ever done it? I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I don't have to do that. I got a really
great team, right. You Keep in mind we have TPO
temporary protection orders that judge is signed we have to
go get bad actors. We have warrants that are signed
daily that we have to go get bad actors. So
we have a crime suppression team. It's gonna come see
about you.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
There you go, and we have the entertainment media hearing
and I know the DA and the sheriff has the
same message. I don't care who your father is. With
song you made, you're in right straight and we're gonna
keep the lights on for it.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
And we're gonna keep the lights on for you. But
you gotta do yes if you're doing wrong right. So,
we want to make sure people know we're not going
after people if they're singing too loud in a choir.
We're going after bad actors.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Everybody gets a phone call.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Everybody gets an opportunity. And I say it's gonna be
a phone call off the rip, but ultimately everybody gets
an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It might not be Brian Still either.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Well, again, you're fortunate enough to have Brian Steele. You
probably won't make it all the way through booking. You'll
be booked out before you get booked in.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I got to hear about this Brian Still guy.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
We need to get you and get him in here
and you can ask him.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Make that a part of community service.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Thank you so much, Derek, you appreciate you and folks.
These episodes are great, but I want to remind you
do not be a stranger. You can reach me. Well,
I'm not gonna say you reach me directly like I'm
gonna reply a sap, but I'm gonna say you can
find me on TikTok at k n O w A
d e b A r A s oh no dey
(33:51):
bross on TikTok, Twitter, and Instagram. You can find me
on all social media platforms include threads and Blue Skott.
I have a lot of love on Blue Scott and
I really appreciate you all, and we can just chat sometimes.
You can follow me, you can show love and we
can interact. I may see it and I might follow
you and we can engage. So I'd really really appreciate you.
Show love to the socials. Thank you now you know
(34:14):
and No Da Barroso is a production of iHeartMedia and
partnership with Recent Choice Media.
Now you know and no deve Brosso is a production
of iHeartMedia and partnership with Recent Choice Media. All right,
today we're going to hear from Fulton County Sheriff Patrick Leabat.
Patrick Lebot represents Riy Street. So for those across the
country wondering what is Rice Street, Rice Street is not
just Atlanta jail. Whenever your favorite entertainer comes Atlanta and
(00:22):
might get in some trouble, they're getting be booked at
Rice Street. And a lot of the complaints we hear
across the country at Rice Street has bad jail conditions.
When you think of Pat Leabat, you think of the
day where he bravely said, Donald Trump, you're gonna have
to take a mug shot like everyone else. Everyone has
who has came through these doors has taken a mug shot,
and you're not coming in the right way. So you're
(00:43):
going to take a mug shot just like everybody else.
That was the sheriff that we're going to speak to today. Okay, well,
how are you, Sheriff?
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I am outstanding, Well.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Sheriff, I'm just I'm so excited to have you here
on the Criminal Justice and it was it was truly
a first priority to make sure you were here as
soon as possible.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
I appreciate it, you know. I love the way you move,
I love the way you network. I wish many of
our youth were able to be in that same vein
and same space. And so I'm excited for you, right,
I mean, it's our heart podcast, right, this is where
people wish they could be, and for you to be
here at such a young age, really it's promising for.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
I really appreciate it. And you always would prefer to
see him in the classroom over the courtroom. Absolutely, that's
your thing.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
Absolutely, we want to interrupt that cycle. Yeah, we want
that prison pipeline, that supply line. We want to want
to interrupt that cycle and really be thoughtful about how
we do it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
So we're going to have a very fun episode today
and I'm really looking forward to So, Sheriff, we spoke
a little about youth and what we'd like to see
him doing. Tell me about the classroom courtroom pipeline that
we were just speaking about.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
So one thing that we're doing to help disturb that pipeline,
if you will. As you know, we have done or
created an environment where every other Friday, we do carpool
Fridays with elementary schools and really so that that first
introduction to law enforcement is not a negative one. There
you go, so that we can focus on being positive
(02:18):
role models, making sure there was a time when everybody,
especially it was before you, right, kids and alike, would
be Okay, I want to be a firefighter, I want
to be a police officer, those kinds of things. And
the model has changed, and so whether it be what's
presented in front of them, the access that you all
(02:38):
have on phones now and so it's more of an
instant gratification piece, and we want to interrupt that model,
remind people that hard work will get you where you
want to be, but ultimately giving back to our community.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
That's right. And I think I think your main thing,
like we said, was classroom, not in the courtroom. And
so a lot of the people I said, yeah, I
know the sheriff Fulling County is a great place. They're
well taken care of us. You know the sheriff in
a good way or I'm going, of course, don't do
don't play dumb. So I think the first introduction should
always be to get to know your sheriff in a
positive way, right.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I appreciate that, and because you know right as well
as y'all as a young folks saying when you know
you know right? So to that point, you've written around
with me on election day.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
And asolutely I shared at the stage.
Speaker 2 (03:20):
Am Now.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
The first time we did one of these interviews was
not in the studio. We recorded it while we were
eating and so I was like, I want to get
an opportunity to have a formal conversation, and now we
get to have it, don't we.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Get to have it? And I could not be more proud.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So what I want to get into today in our
Criminal Justice series is today I wanted to talk to
you about the shady you've You've really messed up my
image of what I used to see in the Fulton
County Commission. And now every time someone tells me they're
a candidate for fulls and County commissioner or they're a
fullsc County commissioner, I say, look what I get right
to it how they're treating the shriff. So tell me
about the situation with the Fulton County Commission not wanting
(03:59):
to fund their jail.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
So where we lie now is still having conversations. So
regardless to what side of the hol you sit on,
as long as we're able to communicate, we're able to
potentially make progress. And so here recently the board, instead
of the recommended five thy five hundred beds we need
based on the jail feasibility study, there has been a
(04:23):
realization that we need at least eighteen hundred beds. But again,
that is a long term project, and that's still one
point two billion dollars. And so when we're able to
have that conversation, it brings people around a little more
realistically to be able to say this is still an
eight year project. And so when the newspapers reached out
(04:43):
and said, well, Sheriff, how do you feel? I feel
as though at least four of the seven commissioners have
finally come around to what I said we needed in
twenty twenty one. I've been very transparent about that. But ultimately,
any long term projects that does not provide immediate relief
for the Sheriff's office continues to keep us in this
(05:06):
hamster wheel, right, keep us turning our gears and not
making a whole lot of carrying a lot of momentum
into this. And so what I I equate it to
when I asked, is I appreciate the attempt because something's
better than nothing? But it is like saying, we're in
a burning building and we're going to build a fire
station next door in five years, so we need immediate
(05:29):
action and go for it. No, I was just going
and the people that we serve need immediate relief, and
so we just have to do a better job. And
you've heard me say this of reading tomorrow's newspaper today
so that we can share our vision and be on
one accord.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah, And so really, what I want to get into
today's Criminal Justice episode is that it's so important to
a lot of people jail conditions, but they do not
quite realize what it takes to get there. So they
look at the first face they see, they google who's
in charge of this jail, they'll see someone and then
put the blame on it. So what is your message
to those that may say, hey, how is this the
(06:06):
Fulton County Commissions fault? And what do you call on
the Fulton County Commission to do right now?
Speaker 2 (06:09):
So really good questions, and so let's unpack that. First
thing we have to keep in mind is that we
don't own the jail. The Fulding County Commission that owns
the jail, or the county as a whole, they own
the facility. Now, as you unpack that to your very
good point, let's for your listeners, let's take this journey
down this road.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Let's do it.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
It's a criminal justice failure.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
Shriff, don't play you so silly.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
It's a criminal justice failure, right, and that means that
the public defenders don't have enough resources, the judges don't
have enough resources, a DA don't have enough resources, and
so when we have individuals who've been inconcerated for five
to ten years, that's a problem for a jail. We
need to fix the system overall the system and understand
that people are human and we need to move them
(06:53):
through the system making sure they have the right representation
so that we can lessen the number of people in
any facility. Doesn't matter how old the facility is is,
if it's overburdened by the criminal justice system not really
moving fast enough, people are going to suffer.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
So would you say, if to a criminal justice advocate,
which is featured in this episode, what would be your
call to action to them?
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Well, the first thing I would say, and that's a
really good question. The first thing I would say is,
if you take the time to listen to what I
have said since I took office one p one twenty one,
many times I sound more like a union leader fighting
for our women and men who I'm so proud of
that go and work.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
And they love you. By the way. Everyone else has
their petty criticisms on Twitter that aren't even in Fulton County.
But your officers love you.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I love and it's mutual. Right. We're asking young people
to go into a very dangerous situation night after night,
day after day, and they are standing up for our
community and making it happen. Those criminal justice advocates you
talk about, while on the surface they look for somebody
to blame, but if they really peel back that you
know what I've been saying for five years, they'll say,
(08:03):
we're fighting for the same thing. We're fighting to treat
people in a more humane fashion. We're fighting to get
the number of people that we had a jail feasibility
study that shows how many beds we need, but not
just beds, how many medical beds and mental health beds
we need. Right now, we have thirty four. We need
five hundred. We have to position ourselves to treat people
(08:23):
in our community better. If people take the time to listen,
we're really singing from the same hymnal. And it's just
how it goes across.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, what does your dream right Street look like?
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Well, it's a reimagined right Street. It is like reimagining
the training facility that the Atlanta Police Department just put together.
They put together one of the best in class facilities
that there is. So when you talk about dream, you
talk about not just a dream, but the possibilities that
come with better technology, better medical care, better mental health care,
(08:59):
all of those things. And this is what I remind people.
They're almost fifty acres up there on at nine to
one Rice Street, So no one can say we want
a facility in our backyard, when in fact, we already
have a facility in your backyard. And so to that extent,
it should be a place where women and men are
proud to go to work in. It's like having an
(09:20):
opportunity to get it right as opposed to continue to
kick the can down the road. And so ultimately a
lot of hard work and a lot of recruitment that
is required to get people to stay that we don't
have a recruitment problem. We have a retention problem, and
so we recruit people, train people, then they go to
the other metro areas because it's a little easier. But
(09:43):
at the same time, in many instance they have better benefits.
So we're not going to be able to eliminate crime altogether,
but we can go after those bad actors and make
sure that they're hell responsible, but we have to do
it in a humane fashion.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
That's right and moving away from conditions. And now you know,
we know dey brosso, We'll be right back. I think
Rice Street is also an entertainment thing, and I'm so
so tired of hearing people hear their favorite R and
B singer, whoever may be, get locked up and Rice Street.
You're like, eh, so, what is your message to those
(10:19):
fans of those people that might get locked up on
one day and they're mad at you?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Well, first, in the DA first of all, don't be
mad at me because you got caught, right, that's the
first thing. Secondly, and this is interesting when we talk
about the generations that glorify Rice Street, right, did my
time at reich Street. You look at and I say
this to one of my favorite artists, making no bones
about it. I say this to Ti every time I
(10:46):
seen him. Right, his one of his first hit songs
was made while he was locked up in Rece Street, right,
and so yeah, he got the street cred for it
for it and I was not the share, but I
tell I remind him all the time he needs to
go pay the then share whatever royalties there were that
came from from him being locked up and creating his
hit songs. So for us, it's about an opportunity. You
(11:07):
look at the Jeffrey Williams, the young Thug trial, what
took two years to get through. Well again, people are
still people, and it's an opportunity for us to even
leverage that relationship. And so yes, we had had a
pop up concert on the courthouse step.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
I wanted to ask you about that. What is his
what is his community service looking like right now?
Speaker 2 (11:30):
This community his community service is off the charts, right,
But more importantly is the commitment. And this is what
I was proud of. Some people will say, Okay, we
want to have a pop up concert, but he's not
only stood by that, he continues to really promote anti
gangs anti violence and share and that's one of the commitments, right,
(11:52):
That's one of the things is how do we how
do we engage in our community? Take this as a
lessons learned and then we get better for it. And
he's been very.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Like his music Share do you like Young Thug's music?
Speaker 2 (12:02):
So I do have to sit back and absorb it, right,
But the amazing thing to me was to watch the
number one rapper in the world have so many people
show up. I share, you can pull up anytime you
want to. Now you a little different.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
You made your bones right, You've earned that, and you
know you got my personal number. You know you come.
You can pull up anytime you want.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Ultimately, his intentionality about giving back to the community because
it's not just me. You'll find him talking to young
kids and schools. I cooked him into the Big Brothers
and Big Sisters. So they're going to have a charity
concert around that and really helping our community more than
what people actually believe.
Speaker 1 (12:44):
How long is he on that? How long is this
shareff you get some time with Doug? How long do
you get your time with Doug Share?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Well, it's become a relationship that has benefited our community
more than anything. So I look at myself as a vessel, right,
how do we continue to send a message? In one
of the first things he said before he gave that
concert was I want to see young people come through
the front of the courthouse as lawyers, as the DA
as people that can help our community, and not the
(13:11):
way he spent two years. That's a strong message. That's
a message that a person has actually learned from where
they come from, where they came from. And so as
long as there's a community engagement focused there. Again, him
and Dominique Jones, you know him, his little baby, right,
they are what who we're talking about. Right, But again,
(13:35):
when it's time to show up for our community, whether
it be toys, right, come to shop with a sheriff.
On December thirteenth, my team will confirmed.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
My website was the website.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's still the Sheriff's website.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
Want to make sure everyone's there who can be there.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Absolutely make sure and even if you don't register, we
will make sure we're taking care of kids. And again,
just left a senior center where we just gave away
seventy five one hundred tuckers and food. Right, this is
a holiday season, and so both of them as well
as our sheriff's office, just the sheriff's offices alone, we've
created almost one hundred giving baskets. What we donate back
(14:11):
to the community and really just try and lean in
and the time of service.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Yeah, what's the dot org website from.
Speaker 2 (14:16):
The registry, you know, FCSOGA, dot org, dot org.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
There you go. And I think the really, I think
you're really doing something really important with the You usually
expect the sheriff's office to maybe evict, arrests, et cetera.
And so when I see your sheriff's office in the
district attorney's office doing these things for the community, it's
really it's really powerful. So on the Criminal Justice series,
I kind of wanted to break down the myths about
(14:42):
jail conditions and everything like that. So if you could
challenge any misinformation, what would it be.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
First of all, we're getting better, right, We've been very
intentional about what that looks like. But again, and I
say this all the time, if you got ready to
go home and there was a red tag on your
your condo, your home, your apartner, and it said that
eighty percent of the building was out of life cycle
and you had to move. We call it a clue.
And so while we have been very intentional working with
(15:09):
the federal monitors, working with the county of trying to
get trying to improve conditions, we're not going to give
that fight up. And it goes back to what you say,
if I were to sit if we were sitting here
with some activists, we're literally saying some of the same things.
It's just a matter of how we deal with that
in a unified manner, so that we are constantly looking
(15:31):
through the fine lines of the paperwork that's being pushed.
And so where you have some commissions would like to
push a message of raising taxes, well that wasn't the
only proposal. There were opportunities to build a replacement facility
using bonds or using public private partnerships. And the notion
(15:54):
that we have never done this before is the only
reason we're not doing it is something we need to
look at as a societal problem. Is because we're so
used to doing things a certain way that if we
continue to do things a certain way, you wouldn't have
your own podcast, right, somebody would tell you you too
young to move into this space. Well, you've bucked that
(16:16):
system and people have given you a chance, and we
need to give some of these new things a chance.
I tell people all the time when they start talking
about well, this is how it used to be, this
is how it used to be. Well it used to
be is don't make honey. You know, we're in a
space you can steal that one next week.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right, I'm still that one.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
So we're in a space where we have to read
tomorrow's newspaper today and be visionary about how we help people.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Yeah, and so I think I think I wanted to
dive into that tax thing. I saw a proposal I
believe it was a new jail and raise tax a
little bit. What would the sales tax rate have turned into?
This is more of a local things to aside from entertainment.
What is the what would the sales tax have been
in Atlanta compared to what it is now? There I've
been in New Jail. What would that look like?
Speaker 2 (17:01):
So ultimately, what I have seen, again, this is the counting.
It's the adjustment of the military. And so when you're
talking about fifty to sixty dollars on a person's house,
that is less than four hundred thousand dollars and then
a certainly adjustment above that. It is not very steep,
but for some people depends on where you are.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
That's an extremely was it a sales SiZ property tax?
Speaker 2 (17:25):
So it's property tax, and so again an opportunity to
your very point, right, do we take a sales tax
and do we split a penny and increase it? Now,
Fulding County has a pretty high sales tax?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
Oh yeah, sheriff, Oh yeah, y'all, Wow with that one.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Really, y'all, y'all, I got to give you so sure,
I got it. So to that extent, it's just a
matter of how you finance it.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, when I think of Folds and County, I think
you share.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Well, that's a blessing.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
It's a blessing, that's right. And so I wanted to
speak a little bit about So we've talked about young
thug and all of that.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Is it.
Speaker 1 (17:59):
Have you had a lot of fun selling him, being
able to say, hey, I want you to speak to
these kids, I want you to do this. What is
it been? His community service been fun?
Speaker 2 (18:07):
So it's been fun from the perspective that he actually
calls or his attorney will call me and say this
is what he wants to do, right, and to see
the excitement that goes along with that, and to be
a little part of that momentum that allows us to
give back to the community as a whole. I mean,
who knew, right, it's number one rap in the world. Right.
(18:28):
We've been very intentional about how we not overuse that,
but using in a space that is very positive. And
he's been very receptive to all of that as.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
We're not abusing it, we're doing the right There you go,
there we go. Now, a lot of the sheriff hate
comes from a very powerful decision, which was to make
Trump get the mudshot like everyone else. Are you still
loving that decision.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
As one of my friends would say, yes and right,
and so it was the right thing to do. And
let's be very clear, I've thought about it, and we've
talked about this off offline. I took some time to
think about it. The understanding because you had the FBI
Secret Service to marshals everybody call in and say, Okay,
here's the number one person in the world in terms
(19:12):
of the most recognizable person in the world. Well, y'all
have me have a problem with me taking young thugs picture,
all right, he's number one rapp in the world. Or
we process eighteen to twenty thousand young men and women
that look like us every year. You don't have problem
with me taking their monk shot. And so now the
(19:33):
only mistake I made was I didn't copyright or trademark, right,
And so from my understanding, the president made thirty five
million dollars. You can't be mad at that, right, But
if I had a percentage of that, I probably wouldn't
even be here. No, I'd probably be on a beach somewhere,
you know.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
Would they have let you copyright it?
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Well, we could have, and in the county would have
been a beneficiary, right because essentially I worked for the voters.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Yo, would have broke bread though, right, Yeah, we find
a way.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
He too, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Looking you.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
It's not a president you hadn't met, not a vice
president you hadn't met, And so I expect before the
end of this term the same thing will hold true.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I appreciate it. And then another thing with that, before
I let you go and clean the streets and make
us safe, is that I really want to dive deep
into this theory that he had to get a muck shot.
No one else did, and so it's so silly that
everyone has been to Ristreet has gotten a muck shot.
So what at that day would Secret Service there look like?
(20:35):
FBI all that really good question because you're a security
don't play I'm more scared of your security. FBI.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
No, don't even try it. So we said we did.
They do a really good job that we talked about
it for a couple of weeks on end. And I
feel like this is so productive and perceptive because you've
been there, you understand it, you can imagine it. But
until they told me he was wheels down, I hadn't
(21:01):
made a decision till he was halfway through the streets
of Atlanta and coming through buying the city, and hadn't
made a decision. And I'm walking back and forth just
I'm like, okay, who does this right? And so break
well not just break it to him. And I have
said this both publicly and privately. When he came in
(21:21):
and he was probably he was presidential stoic, right, and
so you have there's a fine line between looking at
what you see on TV and understanding what's in front
of you. And it's a moment in history. It is
one that will forever be etched in history, and we
(21:43):
as a sheriff's office and me as a sheriff, are
a moment in that history. And so I could not
be I could not afford anyone to be treated differently.
And so again I've had people comment on both sides
of the hour, but it was one that we worked
really closely with our team to accomplish. So the notion
(22:03):
that he was tortured and all the rest, it didn't happen.
Speaker 1 (22:06):
He was in and out, and he did it as
a sheriff, not as a Democrat.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
Correct. I don't have the luxury of answering people's calls
and or responding to people if you're Republican, a Democrat,
or independent or blue green, purple, black, red, it doesn't
matter to me. We have a responsibility to uphold the
morals and the pieces of the office that make shares different.
(22:30):
And so to that extent, again, he was very stoic
when he came in. We had obviously enough security. He
spent more time. I did.
Speaker 1 (22:41):
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (22:42):
And again when I say I was very intentional about
want to meet him, because I did not want any
mischaracterizations of how he was treated. So he came in,
we shook hands, he took his now infamous picture right,
made his money from that. He spent a total of
seven or eight and it's on the inside, and then
(23:02):
went back to his lawyers, limousino to the motor case.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
I noticed that there wasn't a picture of YouTube, just
a mug shot. Yeah, if you really wanted it, because
you have gotten a flip, you know, you and you
and you and Trump.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
Yeah, I probably could have, but probably wasn't worth it. Right,
It'll been. It's been a lot more turmoil to go
with it. And so I'm proud of our team how
they handle that in and out, and so regardless of
any rhetoric that's put out afterwards, keep in mind that
mug shot in the head of the New York Times.
It's sitting outside the Oval office. So I'll send you a.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Clip of that, Yes, send that a copywriter.
Speaker 2 (23:37):
Share.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
We got to find a way.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
We might have missed that boat, but we did miss
the history that comes along.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I don't want everyone wants to know the sheriff security
is more scary than that. No.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, we do a good job.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
We do a great job. We do a good job,
and you run a tight ship at that Sheriff's office.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I gotta see that job. I'll come and see it.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Come on and then we'll we'll we'll get you in
and out of that trump.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Right, well, hey, look as much as you want to see,
you know, we're in an open book, and then really
sit down at some point and talk about some of
the renderings of drawings for what they knew special purpose
building might look like. So you'll get a hit of
the current.
Speaker 1 (24:14):
I want to see it. I want to see we
got to hit a quick break, So don't go anywhere
you're listening to now, you know, in the same episode
that we're filming today, we'll have someone from the Wrongful
Convictions podcast and what is your message to the court
system that are facing wrongful convictions and wrongfully convicting those
(24:37):
that all you have to do is book them and
make sure they're safe, and that's that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Well, we're in the middle of that, right, you're absolutely right.
So yes, we book people, but we also create an
inmate advocacy unit. And what that unit is is they
go through day after day, charge after charge and resident
after resident to focus on what can we do better?
And if they are getting the proper rep presentation. And
(25:01):
so you can ask the public defender. There are a
number of times a week or a month, I'll call
him because somebody told me, well, we hadn't seen our
public defender in two months. Most of that's hyperbole. They
hadn't they been seen. They just maybe didn't understand and
what was going on? And so how do we work
with the DA? The public defenders listed to General Keith
(25:21):
Gamage and his team too.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Like the clerk sh Alexander comes in there too, right,
she does.
Speaker 2 (25:27):
She comes in clerk, not Auntie Clerk. I alight show
you heard that? So you need to come only get
on his podcast. But she is a vital part of
this community that allows us to get records on time,
make sure that they are accurate, and then process people
to the next phase and what that looks like.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, and so in this episode we have wrongful convictions
hosts and what we spoke what we spoke about was
cash bell or no cash bell. Where are you on
that if you if you care to speak on that
as a share.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
So I believe there's a space for judges to make
those decisions. We elect them for a reason. And so
whether judge says someone gets a cash bill, we put
that in there in their wheelhouse to deal with. I
have watched some of the new laws dealing with no
cash bell really have our daily population rise. We had
(26:19):
gotten our daily population down to twenty three hundred, down
from thirty six hundred, and so now it is slowly
corupt back up to nearly three.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Thousand people as a result of no cash bell right.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
As a result right, and so that they are where
there are opportunities for us to meet in the middle
and get better at it. I think we have to see.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
I appreciate that shirt because the activists don't know that
statistics that's so powered. I was sitting here like, oh,
we got to get no cash bell, no cash bail.
I didn't make an official position, but I just learned
something there that's powerful.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
And the piece that where our legislators have gotten together,
and for instance, we would have senators and the like
House of representatives come on Father's Day, on Mother's Day
say I want to bail out one hundred people. When
they do that, well it can anymore. So they change
the stable. And so if you bail out three people
(27:09):
in a year's time. That fourth person, now you can
be charged with the mister, meaning and.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Wait what happened against.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
So let's say you can get all your sponsors all right,
and you come down there and know it bails out
three people. When you get that fourth person to get
ready to be bailed out, you then can be charged
with the crime.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
I know, I keep saying, y'all, y'all, don't play.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
It's not us, it's not us. Keep it right. So
even the bail bond project was very it has been
very instrumental over the years of saying these people meet
certain standards, certain requirements, and they're safe to be back
on the street. Well, and even now judges don't sign
signature bonds. They have a judicial unsecured judicial release that
(27:51):
tracks who is being released and holds them a little
more accountable, but ultimately made it tougher for people to
get out of the facilities.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Yeah, what's your message to Xoneries.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
Well, again, that's that's good representation. I truly have seen
day after day, week after week, month after month where
people have been incarcerated without good attorneys. And so when
you look at it, with ninety three percent of the
people we have in concrated on Rice Street or the
Fulton County facilities. They're represented by public defenders. Most of
(28:26):
those public defenders are new out of law school and
or in a space where they've not really gone through
the system. There you go, but again, those things happen, right,
and so I'm a firm believer and really good representation.
You go back to Jeffrey Williams.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
You're calling young thug, you thug sharing.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
But when you can afford Brian Steele, right, that's a
whole different conversation. I love Brian Still and make no
bones about it, right, and again, he is a real
life harvespector. I know you you never watched what was that? Suits?
Speaker 1 (29:02):
I don't know what Harve respector?
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Okay, so go watch Brian Still though, Right, he's the
real life Harve respector, So go watch suits.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Do you have a spider shirt spider hoodie?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
I do not. I'll get us one to match.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
There we go. We gonna do it. We're gonna do it.
And I think entertainment Rice Street is so interlinked. So
have you ever just seen like an R and B
singer who is known for these stilly, these these songs
that are sweet and nice and then they go to
Rice Street.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I see it all, see it all. So, whether it
be it the Atlanta Housewives, the Potomac Housewives, keep in
mind Thornton on, hold on now, So you got to
keep in mind what ends up happening is if it
happens or you're accused of doing something bad in Fulton County,
the largest county in the state of Georgia, then you're
(29:50):
gonna come to Right Street.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
You know, I have someone We're gonna keep him anonymous,
a family member. I was at a family event and
I was like, moodiful the county. They take good care
of people. It's lower, lower property taxes in some places. No,
I don't want to go to Right Street.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
If something happens, it's not it's not a training ground
it is. It is not where you want to train people.
So on the job training, No, on the job training.
And keep in mind though, so I was in law
enforcement long before Rice Street ran the city jail. And
so if it happens in Atlanta's Hollywood is the South,
and so there's a long list of superstars, both white
(30:26):
and black, that have ventured in between the two doors. Right,
whether it be two fifty four p Street Street and
a C D C or nine on one right Street.
If it happens bad in Fulding County, we'll see we'll
lead a light on for you. Y What is like?
Speaker 1 (30:40):
How are y'all treating me? At? How a mea doing?
Speaker 2 (30:43):
Hey? Look again, we treat everybody saying so again, she
has ability to get some good attorneys, so I expect
how to have I didn't say that, say that, I say.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
That, Okay, what is getting? Marine? Still look like a.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Lot more in both of you and our man's hilarious. Yeah,
he is the truth.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
He's gonna get you right though.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
Well again, he's wanted all over the world too. So
you gotta be in a position where you can, you
can afford good represent work hard for it, har for it.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
And so I think the center of the Criminal Justice
series and in this episode, by the way, just really
educate people. I heard from an activist who hosts wrongful Convictions.
I'm here for someone who deals with this every day.
It is such an honor to have you on and
I'm so thankful you could share your perspective.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
No, thank you, thank you for having us, thank you
for always supporting the right thing. I look forward to
bigger and better things from you, right, and so just
let me know when we're cranking up your first campaign. Sut.
A young man from Clark and Land.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
University saw that you love Clarkshare.
Speaker 2 (31:48):
Absolutely absolutely, but he just won. Is it mayor Stop County? Yeah? Yeah,
So I'm looking for similar things from you, and you
can be the youngest of all, so I'm excited about it.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Speaking of Henry County, whenever we leave Folkton County, we
be like, Okay, Sheriff's on done for we and somebody
else's hurt.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
I need to get you a cowboy hat.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I've never worn one. I gotta wear one.
Speaker 2 (32:13):
Okay, I need to get you one.
Speaker 1 (32:14):
You think of a boost on the ground cowboy hat?
And sure if you arrest people like.
Speaker 2 (32:18):
Physically, I don't physically my team though, are you allowed to?
I could if I needed to?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Really, have you ever done it? I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:25):
I don't have to do that. I got a really
great team, right. You Keep in mind we have TPO
temporary protection orders that judge is signed we have to
go get bad actors. We have warrants that are signed
daily that we have to go get bad actors. So
we have a crime suppression team. It's gonna come see
about you.
Speaker 1 (32:43):
There you go, and we have the entertainment media hearing
and I know the DA and the sheriff has the
same message. I don't care who your father is. With
song you made, you're in right straight and we're gonna
keep the lights on for it.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
And we're gonna keep the lights on for you. But
you gotta do yes if you're doing wrong right. So,
we want to make sure people know we're not going
after people if they're singing too loud in a choir.
We're going after bad actors.
Speaker 1 (33:05):
Everybody gets a phone call.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
Everybody gets an opportunity. And I say it's gonna be
a phone call off the rip, but ultimately everybody gets
an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
It might not be Brian Still either.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Well, again, you're fortunate enough to have Brian Steele. You
probably won't make it all the way through booking. You'll
be booked out before you get booked in.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I got to hear about this Brian Still guy.
Speaker 2 (33:25):
We need to get you and get him in here
and you can ask him.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Make that a part of community service.
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Let's do it.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Thank you so much, Derek, you appreciate you and folks.
These episodes are great, but I want to remind you
do not be a stranger. You can reach me. Well,
I'm not gonna say you reach me directly like I'm
gonna reply a sap, but I'm gonna say you can
find me on TikTok at k n O w A
d e b A r A s oh no dey
(33:51):
bross on TikTok, Twitter, and Instagram. You can find me
on all social media platforms include threads and Blue Skott.
I have a lot of love on Blue Scott and
I really appreciate you all, and we can just chat sometimes.
You can follow me, you can show love and we
can interact. I may see it and I might follow
you and we can engage. So I'd really really appreciate you.
Show love to the socials. Thank you now you know
(34:14):
and No Da Barroso is a production of iHeartMedia and
partnership with Recent Choice Media.
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