Dave Phillips Interview: Jon Rahm — his game, ascension to World No. 1, relationship with Phil and what amateurs can learn from his swing

The last time the TPI co-founder was on the podcast was to discuss all things Phil Mickelson. Now, Dave is back to dive into another client — Jon Rahm. The World No. 1 broke through last year with his U.S. Open win at Torrey Pines. Find out how he managed to switch nearly-all his equipment so effortlessly in 2021, his mental fortitude, what amateurs can learn from his swing and what he's learned from Phil Mickelson. Plus, Dave and Claude analyze the 2022 major schedule and what courses suit Rahm's game for another successful season.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's episode thirty seven of Off Course with Claude Horner
always comes to you every Wednesday, and this week's guest
is an old friend to the podcast. He was on
the bonus edition the first week we lost launched the
podcast back in June. Dave Phillips, the co founder of
the Titlist Performance Institute, but more importantly the coach to
the world number one John Ram and H Listen. I'm

(00:32):
a huge fan of Dave Phillips and the work that
he does. UM. He's a friend, he's a mentor, and
I think he's one of the smartest people in golf instruction.
Any kind of thing that comes out in golf instruction,
if it's a new if it's a new launch monitor,
if it's a new video camera, if it's a new
kind of swing rage, if it's a new swing theory, equipment, distance, anything, UM,

(00:57):
if I want to know anything about it, Dave's first
person I called because he's at the forefront. UM. He's
as much of a research kind of guy as he
is a golf instructor, and I think the work that
he's done with John Um and we talked about in
the podcast, it really is kind of UM. What the
Titlist Performance Institute was all about when they founded their

(01:19):
UM movement screening and and got into golf, fitness and listen,
John ram Is, he's a hell of a player. And
right now as we go into the beginning of the
season in two UM, I think he's miles and miles
ahead of everybody in the game right now, UM, with
the way that he has played, And it will be
very interesting in two UM to see if he can

(01:41):
continue that. And and Dave has a front row seat,
he's part of his team. And UM, I think it's
a really really what I wanted to do was, uh,
do a really deep dive into um, John rom what
it's like working with him, what he does, what makes
him such a great player, and and Dave, what's the
guy to talk to you? So UM, it's a fascinating

(02:02):
listen and it is really really a unique insight into
one of the game's best players. So sit back and
enjoy listening to Dave Phillips. My guest is Dave Phillips,
the co founder of The Proudest Performances to Dave. You
are on the podcast right when we started talking about

(02:25):
Phil Nicholson and all the crazy stuff he did at
the PJA Championship. But I figured, seeing as you coach
the number one ranked player in the world right now,
John Rom, I want to kind of take a look
and a deep dive into his game because it's just
it's fascinating to me how successful he's been able to be.
And you guys saw him when he was I believe

(02:46):
an amateur. Um he came out to t p I
and how did that come about? And that first meeting,
what did't you see because John kind of is, wouldn't
you say, he's kind of the living embodiment of kind
of the t p I etho to where you guys
took a look at what his body did, what his
body couldn't do, and then basically let him do what

(03:08):
he did. And he's become the best player in the
game right now, Dave, he's the best player in the
game and it's not even close. Well you know that's listen.
I mean John, is that there's there's a lot that
goes into John Rom, right, and and to to kind
of wind back to the first point of your question.
You know I used to do some work for the
Spanish Golf Federation. I still do, so you know, Greg

(03:30):
and I have been in Spain many times doing t
p I seminars and the Spanish Golf Federation is great
and they actually helped their young players a lot over there.
And they said to us, you go, you know, we
got a couple of players that are at college in
the US. Would you take a look at those for us,
you know, every quarter, if we could send them to you.
And I was like, of course, I'd love to do that.
And one of these guys was John rom So. John

(03:53):
had just come over to the University of Arizona and
Tim Michelson was actually coaching John, and the Spanish Golf
Federation and called and said, Hey, they're gonna be in
San Diego for an event. Would you take a look
at John for us? And I'm like absolutely. So John
comes out. You know, he's got a mishmash of golf
clubs and I put him on the range, and you know,
he's this big kid, and and you look at him

(04:15):
and you're like, okay, and he's just excited. He's wide
eyed to be there at our facility, and you know,
it's like a lot of young kids are when they
come out. And I just started watching him hit balls
and and and instantly like the first strike, I remember
him hitting just a couple of irons. I was like, well,
that's different, you know, the sound was different. And then
you already had this short golf swing, you know. His

(04:38):
his early coach kind of coached him that as a
big guy, he could be a lot more efficient with
a shorter back swing. And then I started to notice
the little differences, you know, the bowed wrist and some
of the things that he was doing, and the way
he was moving through the golf ball, and I said,
you know, let's let's physically screening, which is what we do.
Let's see how you moved. So we took him in
the gym, screened him and at the time, he actually

(05:00):
failed quite a few tests. One of them was what
we call an overhead deep squat, and that's when we
discovered the ankle door seflection issue. And he told us
about when he was a kid, he had a club
foot and he you know, had to have his foot reset.
His ankle literally doesn't move his right his right ankle
doesn't move, doesn't really move. Now, so explain that Greg
a little bit better for people that don't know what

(05:20):
door seflection means, because obviously you and I live in
this world with the terminology. But for for people that
don't know about the body and kind of how it works,
what does his body? What does his ankle not do?
So basically, you know, if you were to try and
squat all the way down and keep your feet pointed
straight ahead of you, not allow them to fan out.

(05:42):
You know somebody that can do a complete squat. You
see babies do this perfectly all the time. They just
go straight down their ankle conflex with their legs so
that they can sit all the way down. John's can't
do that. It's locked in place, so he doesn't have
the flection in his ankle. And that's important for loading
into the trail foot and moving and using your legs

(06:03):
effectively in the golf swing, because you need to load
into that right leg and be able to push off
of that right leg. And if that ankle was kind
of locked in, it really limits a little bit of
what or a lot of what you can do from
an athletic standpoint. It does so so right away, you know,
most people that have a dors reflection issue with the

(06:23):
ankle or a locked ankle are gonna have some movement
towards the golf ball on the down swing, because as
you said, it's difficult to continue their rotation. So immediately
I was like, okay, well that's not moving, So how
does he go about changing this? So we started look above.
So whenever you have a joint that's not functioning, like
the ankle, now I got to go to the knee

(06:45):
and the hip and make sure those are really good. Right,
So we started to move through his body and identify
the different things that weren't great. His balance on one
side more than the other. And when you have a
dors reflection ankle issue on the trail leg his right
leg for him, then is he moving into his left side?
And what's going on with the left side is that

(07:06):
overworking to compensate. So the body is full of compensations.
You know, a lot of great athletes have compensations, and
some of those compensations are what make them so good,
you know, So a lot of times you've got to
be careful to change. It's not a matter of fixing.
It's a manner in figuring out what the jigsaw puzzle
or the Rubik's cube is and then figuring out how

(07:27):
to put it back together. For that person, and everybody
can learn from that. So all of your listeners can
learn from understanding that. You know, you need to build
your best golf swing and it should be based on
what you can physically do. And if there's a physical restriction,
we might be able to fix it. But in John's case,
we couldn't. Right. It wasn't like something I can go

(07:48):
to the gym and work on this. His ankle was
set this way when he was a child, and I
can't do much to do that. So now I've got
to look at all the other pieces of the puzzle
to make sure that it's functioning eckly. And then what
we did is we built an amazing team around John.
We have, you know, two medical guys, one that travels
on tour and one at home, Jimmy you want how

(08:09):
he sayessay? And then we have Spencer Tatum, his fitness professional,
and together we've built a great team. No different than
how you go to Formula one and the pit crew
car comes into the and all the guys have got
their job. We've all got out job, and how job
is to clear the clutter, make that body keep functioning,
to allow him to do what he already knows how

(08:30):
to do and one of the tp I seminars, I
remember you guys were talking about it and Gray Cook,
who you know. Gray is one of the elite kind
of guys that understands how the body moves. And I
think it was somebody that asked, hey, does anybody kind
of no can kind of come up with an idea
of how the body works? How could you describe the
way the body works? And I remember you telling me that,
Gray was like, that's super easy. The body is made

(08:52):
up of an alternating pattern of stable and mobile joints.
Right to your foot, he's a stable joint. What moves
your foot is the ankle, Your knee is stable, your
hips are mobile, and on up the chain. So what
you were saying earlier, anytime we we look at or
you guys look at something that is supposed to be
stable and it's mobile, or something that's supposed to be

(09:17):
moving and be able to move and stable, like you said,
you have to look above or below that chain. And
I remember years and years ago, I think I met
you and Greg in two thousand and four. You guys
watched me hits and golf balls. I'm the poster child
for lack of internal hip rotation. My hips are supposed
to be really, really mobile. They don't. So the only

(09:38):
way I can hit golf balls is to kind of
fire my chest and then my lower back. My spine
at the base of my mind, which should never be mobile,
it should be stable, was moving and and your partner
Greg Growth Dr Greg Roth said to me, Listen, it's
not a question of if you're going to have to
have back surgery based off of what your body does.
Eventually you're probably going to have to have some sort

(10:02):
of corrective surgery because your lower spine is moving a lot.
Because your hips don't move and your lower spine isn't
supposed to be moving. That's right, you're you know, and
this is what you're you know. The listeners can really
benefit from, right, So this is when you're in pain.
A lot of times, it's not where the problem is.

(10:22):
The problem is above or below it. So if I've
got back pain, you need to look at your hips,
and you need to look at your thoracic spine because
if those aren't moving, all the stress goes to the area.
So unless you get hit by somebody in your lower back,
most of the time you go down with lower back
pain from overuse, because the hips a dysfunctioning, especially as
we get over So you know, as you get into

(10:43):
your fifties and sixties and seventies and you want to
continue playing golf. I see lots of people. I'm out
here in Palm Springs for the tournament, and there's lots
of events, and I see lots of golfers because it's
a program that we all know, and a lot of
these guys will come up and go, oh, yeah, my backs.
You know, I've got sciatica and I've got this, and
my god, that does not need to happen, right, And

(11:03):
a lot of it is happening because we're in this
sedentary lifestyle where we sit a lot, and when you sit,
the hip flix and gets short, the glutes get turned off,
the hips get tight. So you've got to get up
in life, you've got to move right, and you've got
to get up and take your walks and take your
breaks and get a stand up desk, and you've got
to move. And if we stop moving, the blood stuff circulating,

(11:27):
and things aren't good. And we don't want to stop
moving in life, right. And I remember you and and
Greg saying once in a seminar that golfers, a lot
of golfers, a lot of people that are listing they're
in pain. And I remember you guys both said, listen,
golfers aren't football players. They're not getting hurt. There's not
They're not running into people, and people aren't running into them.

(11:48):
They're standing and swinging a golf club. You shouldn't be
in pain. You expect other athletes and other sports that
are contact sports, hockey players, basketball players, football players that
are that are having that kind of movement to where
they're hitting each other. Those type of athletes are in
constant pain because of the impact and the trauma. Golfers,

(12:09):
we shouldn't be in pain. And and to your point,
I mean, if if we look at phil and you know,
Philip fifty one years old. I screened him a couple
of weeks ago. I mean, he moves incredibly well for
fifty one year old. I mean, he has very mobile hips.
He's never really been injured, you know. I mean think
of the career he's had, in the longevity he has

(12:30):
and he's still playing, you know, at a very very
high level. And you see, I mean he's taking care
of his body. And yet sometimes we may not look
as good, and we might overeat, and we might do
these things, but it doesn't mean that it should affect
your ability to move. Yeah, And the one thing going
back to John Romp, when Phil started spending a lot

(12:52):
of time with John rom he came out on tour
and he was taking thousand dollar bets that John rom
was going to be the number one rank player in
the world from the time he turned pro. And I
think it was Phil it was either two or three
years and he was It was at Memphis and Brooks
and DJ came back and told me that that Phil
was saying, I'll take any bet that this kid is

(13:14):
going to be the number one ranked player in the world.
And I was sitting there, Dave Rack and my brain going,
do you have any idea how many tournaments, how many majors,
how many top tens, how many top fives you would
have to have to go from no status on the
PGA Tour to being the number one ranked player in
three And he's done it. I mean, it's it has

(13:36):
been unbelievable. So for phill to see that. You mentioned
that when you watched him hit golf balls for the
first time, the sound was different. And you live in
the same world that I am. You've watched Tiger Woods
hit golf balls. You've watched Rory McElroy hit golf balls,
You've watched Adam Scott, You've watched all of the great
players underneath the titlist umbrella, and then all of the
great players on tour. So when you watched him hit balls,

(14:01):
what did you kind of come up with that You thought, Okay,
this is how we could help. This is because most
people would look at what was happening with his body
and say, Okay, we've got to make changes. We've got
to fundamentally change the way he swings the golf club.
And if you look at the way people are looking
at John Rom's golf screen right now, I mean when

(14:22):
you watch him at golf balls, it just doesn't look
like he could ever hit the golf ball off line.
And to be honest with you, he doesn't hit the
golf ball off line. I like the mistakes I watched
him make. They're very I mean, probably one of the
worst shots I've ever seen John hit in competition was
at the US Open this year at Tory Pines. On

(14:43):
the back nine. He had a quick low hook. I
think it was on maybe eight or nine, one of
the par fives. You've got a great break, ended up
making birdie. But that's probably the worst shot I've ever
seen the guy hit. When I look at John, it's
the face is incredibly square of the past, from hiphip

(15:03):
to hiphipe, right. And that's a lot to do with
the boat rist. I mean, Dustin has a boat risk,
Brooks has a boat risk. Everybody actually does this, but
some of them do it on the back swing, and
the guys that are cup do it on the downswing. Right.
Are we saying that everybody should have a boat with
Absolutely not. It fits those guys mechanics perfectly to do that.

(15:24):
When I first saw John, the strike was amazing. In
other words, you look at the divot and the strike
and the face was square literally from hiphipe through impact.
It was looking at the golf ball and immediately knew
that this guy could could be really good. What John
didn't know is he didn't know how to use his
golf swing. When I first saw him, he actually hit

(15:45):
a drawer, right, He didn't hit a fade. Everybody's like, well,
he just never hit anything, but this he actually draws
the golf ball exceptionally well, and I'm actually right now
trying encourage him to bring that into the game a
little bit more when he needs it. A lot of
it was he didn't understand like we do today with
radar and face the path, how to shape shots with

(16:07):
what he had, and we really taught him how to
do that. So that was more of Okay, move the
ball here, do this set up this way, and it
was very basic. And you know, I learned a lot
of this from your dad, And watching your dad teach
is one of the greatest things in the world because
he's got this knowledge base of looking at so many
golf swings that he'll say one thing that encurposes everything,

(16:31):
and to a rookie teacher, they'll be like, oh, that
guy doesn't know that much. He just said this one thing,
just kind of yeah. And and to me, that is
the art of coaching. And I and you know, I've
worked my whole life to get to that level. And
you know, I'm fifty four years old now and I'm like,
I'm kind of there. I'm not quite there yet, but

(16:52):
I look at all this technology and all this stuff
that's out there, and I'm just using it for me
to keep the message simple. And you know, there's so
much incredible coaching today, and there's so much great technology
available to us, but it's for us the coach, right
and and the good coaches take that information and they
say the right thing at the right time. And your

(17:14):
dad is a genius at that right and you are too.
You've become that and I've seen that in you as
a coach, and and it is an art of coaching.
And and some people will say, well, they don't know
that much because they only say this, and I'm like,
come on, man, I mean you think we don't do
our job. I mean this is what we do. We
study everything at t p I. We've got every piece

(17:34):
of technology. You've seen it. If it's new, I'm the
guy that finds it. I study it, but I don't
take it to my player. It's for me to go.
If I can find a little bit of an easier
way to say the simple thing, then that's all I'm
looking for. So in John's case, you mentioned a lot
about in a lot of ways. I see John, whereas

(17:55):
a lot of people now are looking at what he does,
is if it's kind of something knew because they've never
you know, the short backswing, the way the golf ball
the club works on the down swing. But really, Ben Hogan,
Lee Trevino, some of the greatest players of all time
did what John does. So when I look at John's

(18:15):
golf swing, it's a little bit of honestly, it's kind
of a throwback as much as anything, the way that
he kind of squares and it's a very very simple
way to effectively hit the golf ball straight. Why do
you think he's been able to then take what you
guys have done, because, I mean a lot of people

(18:37):
you can say, Okay, this is but he's taken it.
Just I mean, I think he's going to go down
as one of the best ball strikers and one of
the blessed players of all time. I think John's got
a legit chance to get to double digit majors. A
lot of guys said that, Brooks has said that you
look at players and you say, oh, yeah, this player
could win a lot of major championships. But when you

(19:00):
look at what John Rome does and you look at
how he does it, and you look at the body
that he has, I just I just don't see a
reason how he doesn't get to ten, eleven, twelve majors. Well,
you know a lot of it, you know, honestly, But
I think it's it's maturity. And I'm seeing that in

(19:21):
John now. I mean he's twenty six years old and uh,
you know, he's got a baby and and his family
life is amazing. He loves this game. He absolutely has
a love for this game. I mean, you know, we
were out Monday at the Madison Club that you know,
and he shuts sixty and missed two puffs for eagle
and it was like a layup, you know, and and

(19:42):
then at the end he's like, let's go to the range.
You remember that shot around the green. I didn't quite
get that. Let's go work on that. So he just
loves it. I mean, he's been out there all day.
He signs autographs, he does this, he does that, and
some days he'll come off the golf course and he'll
be like, yeah, I'm good, I'm gonna just I'm leaving.
I'm done for the day. And I love that about

(20:02):
him and that he's he's come. He's got it in
his head. He understands that it's work at the right time.
It's not work all the time, and and sometimes recovery
and stepping back gives you a little bit better perspective.
And I see guys grinding on the range. And you know,
we've heard the adage that all these guys work hard,
all these guys are focused. You don't. You don't wake

(20:25):
up and go, geez, I'm not focused today, and everybody
is focused. But it's it's really what what John's becoming now.
And he understands what his game can do, and it's
just becoming mature and letting it come, don't force it.
And I think in some cases, I mean last year,
we had an incredible year. Obviously had his first major championship,

(20:47):
but if you think about it, I mean we had
I think we had like twelve or thirteen top ten
ten finishes, you know, so it might have even been more.
But when you when you look at how many times
he's giving himself a chance to be there, that's what
you have to do. Just keep giving yourself a chance.
And there's gonna be those weeks when you're you're the
guy that nobody can catch. There are great players out

(21:10):
here right now, and you know, the level has risen
to a whole another partly driven by Tiger, partly driven
by great coaching. But now every week, you know in
the field, I mean, we've got Patrick Candle, We've got
Mark how We've got Justin Thomas, We've got Brooks, We've
got Dustin, We've got there's there's a solid group that
if they're on that week, they're probably gonna win or

(21:32):
they're gonna have a chance with nine holes to go.
And John's one of those guys, right Yeah. And the
other thing that in talking to his caddy, Adam hayes Or,
I think Adam has done a fantastic job and working
with But Adam was saying to us that John likes
to do a ton of his work prep wise for
tournaments at home, so that when he comes to the
tournament he doesn't have to stand on the driving range

(21:55):
and hit thousands of golf balls. He doesn't have to
grind at the tournament. He can come to the tournament
with the focus of listen, I'm coming here to be
as fresh as I possibly can, to have my mind decluttered,
and so that he Adam was saying, their focus is
hyper hyper about where's the tech, where's the where's the pins,

(22:16):
what's the strategy? And he isn't in panic or search
mode while he's at a tournament. Never never that way
with John, And honestly, I only come to events to
watch him play. I don't even go on the range
most of the time. I mean, if if he asked
me something, We've done our prep work prior to coming.
We've got a plan for every event, and I like

(22:38):
to just come and see if the plan is working
so that I can modify it when we go home.
It's not a matter of trying to fix it out here.
It's it's you know that, it's just if they're thinking
technical swing, it's very difficult. These guys are too good.
You need to let it happen. If you, you know,
any great athlete will say this. Michael Jordan will say it,

(22:59):
Michael Phelps will say Kobe Bryant would say it. All
of these great athletes would say. I work hard at
home in practice so that I can just go play.
And and that's that's the game at this level. If
you're working on it like crazy at the event, you're
probably not there. What are some of the things that
John does in his golf swing that people because obviously

(23:20):
everybody looks at players on TV, other players look at
the great players and say, Okay, I'm going to try
and emulate that. I think it's a dangerous one to
really think that you could go super super short, laid
off with that left wrist really really bowed. Because if
you haven't seen John up close in person, he's a
big person. He's a large unit. He's a big guy, right,

(23:42):
So his ability to move and the way he moved,
But what are some of the things that he can
that that he does that people can say, Okay, maybe
I could take some of that and apply it to
my game and it could help me play better. It's
a great question. So I would say that people are
fixated too much with the plane and the path of

(24:03):
a golf club and moving the golf club right, and
they should be way more focused on their lower body
and how their lower body works. And if you look
at John, he's got one of the greatest lower bodies
I think in the game today. He's strong, he's stable,
it moves. Look at how he loads into his trail leg,
Look how he shifts and moves into his lead side.

(24:25):
And if you want to generate speed or power in
your golf swing, you have to have a lower body
power we know comes from the ground. If you lift
your feet off the ground and try and swing a
golf club, you wouldn't be able to do it. You
have to have the ground interaction to do that. And
we know that from looking at force and pressure and
so on and so forth. But you know, loading correctly,

(24:47):
not being static. There's a lot of players that are, hey,
I'm going to stabilize my lower body and I'm gonna
rotate my upper body and create this X factor and
all that stuff. To me, for the average guy, that's
the worst thing in the world. You know. I think
that the lower body should be active, and and just
think back to other sports that you're trying to, you know,

(25:07):
move something with speed, if you were going to throw something,
if you're going to swing a baseball bat. Look at
those athletes and what they do. They don't anchor their
lower body down and not move it. It moves. Look
at any great bull strikes lower body, and look at
John's if you want to learn something about him, I
would emulate what his lower body does. Yeah, and then

(25:28):
because his lower body works so efficiently, as you said,
and it's something that you and I talked to players
a lot about when that lower body gets unstable in
the golf swing, going back to what we were talking
about earlier with Gray Cook, in the stable mobile pattern
through impact. Ideally the club face and the hands in
the arms. For a lot of the best players in

(25:49):
the world are very very passive and very very stable
because the lower body is able to rotate and move
in the right pattern and is that lower body is
very very functional and moving and stable. They can square
the face and not have to do a lot with
their hands, where the average golfer, that lower body gets
kind of all over the place. That lower body weight

(26:12):
goes to the toes, the hips don't rotate, then the
chest can't rotate, and then the club based has to
go and be super super active because the body isn't
moving exactly exactly. So, you know, I think when when
people look at you know, the things that we work

(26:32):
on now with John are you know, I look at
his feet. We've changed his shoes. You'll see him wearing
different shoes this year than he did. And that was
you and I talked about that. We had breakfast a
couple of weeks ago. Talk to me about the shoe thing.
Because he switched manufacturers. He went from Audi doss to
callaway and the shoe was a big, big change. You
wouldn't think that would be important, but you knowing kind

(26:54):
of what his body can and can't do, that was
kind of a red flag for you when you were
looking at what his shoes are doing. Well, Yeah, and
I wanted to take a deeper dive there, because you know,
when you look at somebody as good at bull striker
as John. There's a couple of golf courses out there,
one which has our first made to the Monster's coming up,
that have a lot of downhill, uphill, side hill lies.

(27:15):
There's a lot of undulation there and I look at
a player like him that how solid his foundation is.
And I saw last year and even the year before
there was a couple of holes there that caused him
some grief. And that that is the eighth hole standing
on the second shot where you're uphill trying to hit

(27:36):
a drawer for a bry that fades it and he
doesn't like that shot. And then there's a couple of
downhill shots on the back nine that that you know,
if if it's a little bit wet or there's some
dew on the ground in the morning and I've seen
him slip. I've seen him slip and hit. Most of
John's bad shots come from slip. He used the ground
so effectively that if the if, the if, the ground

(27:59):
interaction that there he could slide. And I was just
looking at the shoe and I'm like, I think the
shoes a little bit too unstable that you're wearing, and
I think we need to address this. So this offseason
we addressed that with his shoe manufacturer. We looked at
a couple of things with that ankle to make sure
it supports it, and then we really went into a

(28:19):
deep dive on what what could we put him in
that gave him just a little bit more support in
those situations where he's got uphill, downhill, side hill and
so on and so forth. And so that's just a
little one of those little tiny things. It's like putting
a Formula one drive and knows that the right tire
is going down a little bit and he's losing some

(28:41):
you know, pressure in the corners. I look at the
same way with elite level golfer. So we we looked
hard at the shoe and change the shoe. He's one
of those unique players, Dave where it just doesn't seem
like there's a golf course or a tournament that doesn't
set up well for him based off of what his
skill set is and what his ability to do. I mean,

(29:03):
he's an incredible driver of the golf ball. He hits
the golf ball, you know, as far as he needs to.
He's in he's in the upper I'd say five of
what's going on with distance. He's an elite iron player.
I think his short game is very very underrated, and
he's an unbelievable pressure putter. So you put all of

(29:26):
that together and it makes it very very difficult. I
think for the other guys on tour. If John's in
the on the leaderboard, which he is basically every week,
you know that you're probably going to have to do
something special. And we have seen so few of the
great athletes in golf who were like that. Jack was

(29:48):
like that, Ben Hogan was like that, Lee Trevino was
like in the modern game Tiger. DJ has had runs
where he's like that Rory, and he's now put himself
in that cat a glory of players that everybody else
on tour is looking and if he's in the rear
view mirror, you're going to expect him at some point
to have an opportunity to pass you. Yeah, I mean,

(30:11):
I I agree. I mean, right now it's about as
good as I've seen it um in a long time.
It's really good right now, And and he feels really comfortable,
and he's just starting to make the right decisions. And
you know, if he's hitting a bad shot, it's really
you know, at his level right now, with the strike
he's got, it's probably more it's a hole that doesn't
quite set up, or he's not quite committed to the shot,

(30:33):
because he just doesn't hit it that bad. He doesn't
hit anything that bad. And you know, if if we
do have anything that's a little bit sometimes he'll catch
it a little bit in the heel, and that's usually
because he's trying to force a cut instead of just
release it and hit his natural cut. So other than that,
there's really not much wrong. So and and but as
as you know, the cliche and golf is they always

(30:56):
said that a shank is right next door to a
re the really good shot. And if I look at
the ball strikers, and I've been lucky enough to be
around the majority of the great ball strikers. I mean,
I look at you know, the guys that I've worked with,
you know, Brooks currently DJ. If they're gonna miss it,
they'd much rather miss it more in the heel then

(31:17):
they would want to miss it on the toe, where
the average golfer tends to have that wear mark out
on the toe. I think if if if you're listening
and you go and look at your irons, you're going
to kind of put him in the sun. You're gonna
see that little discoloration out on the toe where where
good players tend to miss it more in the heel. Yes,

(31:37):
you're absolutely right, and that's that's partly Ducau's path. So
good players tend to, if anything, they get it to shallow.
They very rarely get steep, you know. And when you know,
John will sometimes complain of being a little bit steep,
and that's usually because he's shallow early and steepens it
too late. Right, So, but better players tend to do that.

(31:58):
They tend to I'd rather have a player shallow it
early and steep and it late, then be steep and
then try and shallow it, which is what yeah, for sure,
And I think that's that's a huge huge part of
what makes him great. Talk to me Dave about his
mental frame of mind because he just came out. We
continue to talk about this. We shouldn't at this point

(32:20):
in be surprised that someone is coming from college and
comes out on tour and wins early, and comes out
on tour and then has the the ability and the
opportunities to win majors and contended majors, because we're seeing
that on a regular basis. The mental side of things,
because when he came out, he I think he rubbed

(32:43):
some people maybe the wrong way because he was incredibly cocky.
But what you've seen is you know the old Landi Watkins,
You know you LANDI used to say, Hey, it's not
bragging if you can back it up. You know, it's
not being cocky if you can back it up. There
are a lot of people that have a lot of
swag and you look at them and you're like, yeah,
you've got a pretty pretty inflated opinion of yourself having

(33:04):
never won a golf tour. But John came out and
you could tell that he had this kind of mental strength.
He looked like he was confident, He looked like he
felt like he belonged. And you and I have talked
about this, but I think we're seeing a massive, massive
uptake of the US college golf system. John went to
Arizona State. He dominated, He was a great player, and

(33:27):
his mental frame of mind, I think, to me is
as good as anyone in the game right now. Yeah,
it is. And to your point, I mean, I think
some of the top you know, college golf teams and
and the kids coming out of college today, let's face it.
I mean, the facilities are amazing, the coaching is amazing,
and if they're fortunate to be a school that has

(33:48):
a biomechanics lab or a mental you know, like Arizona
State does with Dr Debbie Cruz, there's some incredible research.
If if their coaches are open to the rest of
the school, there are a lot of very smart people
that have time to look at things that a lot
of us in daily life don't look at. So there
really is incredible opportunity at the top golf schools for

(34:10):
those players that make those teams to come out and
compete right away. In John's case, it's really just putting
all the pieces together right. So the more you're elevated
becoming number one in the world. Winning a major, the
more expectation there is of you, and the bigger the
targeter is on your back, because you know, you've seen

(34:31):
this with DJ. Everybody's trying to come get you, and
and that galvanizes you. And you can go two ways,
like you you can actually get you know, let that
bother you, or you can take it and relax and
realize that I'm already there. And I think, you know,
John maybe felt that a little bit right after the
US Open and kind of felt like there was a

(34:55):
lot of expectation on him. And I think it's been
a great off season where we just shut it down.
I mean it literally did not touch a golf club
for six weeks going into Hawaii, nothing, and and and
if you think about how well he still played at
Hawaii and and really didn't touch a golf club, it
shows his mental strength of going. You know, I just
needed to let this relax and know that I'm already

(35:18):
in a place. I don't have to do anything else.
I'm already here. Everybody else has got to get to
my level, and if they do, I'll move it to
another level. And that's the danger when you do something
good is you're always trying to do that little extra.
I gotta work harder to stay here. I gotta work harder,
But sometimes you don't. You know, sometimes you do, but
sometimes you don't. I think the great golfers and the

(35:40):
great athletes all have a great understanding as to what
their potential they're, how good they are, and their greatness.
And I think that is one of the things you
and I have talked about this many times that a
lot of people that are trying maybe to get ontour
or trying to get to that next level as junior,

(36:00):
they have that kind of fear that if they play bad,
they're going They've lost it. It's gone again. And I
think one of the strengths in the in the time
that i've you know, the decade that I've been around
Dustin Johnson, I think we're just now people are starting.
You and I, people around the game knew it, but
it always kind of looked like DJ was maybe a
little bit aloof that, maybe he didn't care that, maybe

(36:22):
it didn't matter that much to him because of the
attitude that he has. And when he went on that
run in and won the Masters and won the FedEx,
people started thinking that ability to not fear that it's
going to be lost, that I'm that I've lost it again.
Oh my gosh, I'm not going to play well again.
I think all the great golfers know that they're good,

(36:43):
and I think that is part and parcel to becoming
a great golfer and becoming your great champion is you
need to think that you're the best player in the game.
Um And you know John certainly does. When DJ is
playing his best, he believes that he is the best
player in the game. Rory McElroy when he's at at
the height of his powers. And you know, I spent

(37:04):
almost a decade with Tiger Woods. Tiger always believed that
if he played his best, he expected to win. When
he came out on tour that famous Curtis Strange interview,
how you know you'll learn I can win with my
B game. I didn't have my great But now looking
back on that, you realized that that is such a massive,
massive strength. And I don't think it comes from a

(37:25):
sense dab of being egotistical or overconfident. I think it
comes from an understanding. I remember asking Tiger when he
went on that Tiger Slam. We went out and played
in Vegas, and like November when there was an off
season and he'd won everything that he'd won, and everybody
was saying it was the greatest golf anybody had ever seen.
It was just the two of us. Hey, let's go
play nine holes. We went out and played nine holes.

(37:47):
It was late in November in Vegas. The son's going
down and I said to him, surely you must realize
you're the best player on the planet and you're better
than everybody else. And I'll never forget he said to me.
He said, you know, I never think like that, but
I do think that there isn't anybody that is going
to outwork me. There isn't anybody that isn't going to

(38:08):
be able to handle pressure that better than me. And
I don't think there's anybody that wants it more than me.
So that mindset can come across as being arrogant and
huge ego, but it is a huge asset to have
that kind of self confidence. And you and I have
seen not only the athletes, but everybody that we've been
lucky enough to meet from a business standpoint, it's not

(38:29):
like they think they're going to fail. No, And and
you know, you're so right there, because I mean, I
actually remember having a conversation not too long ago with
Michael Phelps and talking to him about swimming, because I
love talking to other athletes about what they do to prepare.
And you know, he talked about the fact that he
worked so hard in practice and was so well prepared

(38:50):
that by the time he showed up, he knew that
he was gonna win, and everybody else knew, right, And
and that's kind of the feeling, you know, when Tiger
walks on the range. The guys that are really at
the height of what they do, when they walk out there,
you can see the other players looking at them, right,
I mean, we all start it with Tiger. Everybody was
kind of looking down the range. What is he working on?

(39:11):
Maybe I should try that thrill? And you know, all
of a sudden, you see him with the two teas
on the putting green. Now everybody's got the two teas
on the putting green, right, and and and they all
do that, and and I'm starting as a coach that
kind of sits back, and you know, we have a
great team. It's not just me. And so that I
hate taking credit for John because it's not me. It's

(39:31):
it's it's what we've got around him. I'm just I
just played my role and I look at it and
I like to look from that perspective, and I see
the other guys now watching John like I see them
watching him in short game and when he's driving the
golf ball, stopping what they're doing and watching. And that's
what used to happen with Tiger. So he's kind of

(39:53):
at that level right now where guys are going, what's
he doing over there? You know? Yeah, And I think
we've seen eyes on tour. When Rory's hitting golf balls,
you notice other players, especially when Rory starts drivers, you
notice other players starting to watch him. DJ is one
of those players. Brooks has been one of those players
right now. I think Colin morrikwer from an iron standpoint,

(40:15):
if Colin Morrikow are a guy like Tommy Fleetwood or
hitting irons. I mean, I remember last year in Saudi,
I was walking, you know, on the range. I was
there early on on a Tuesday or Wednesday, and Tommy
Fleetwood was hitting golf balls. I sat and watched him
hit golf balls for twenty five minutes, but wasn't talking
to him, just talk sitting and watching, And I find
myself doing that when John's hitting golf balls, and and

(40:37):
if he's hitting golf balls, a couple of stalls over
you know that sometimes it's hard not to kind of
while you're watching someone hit balls, you're kind of looking
over the shoulder because he is that type of player.
Do you think that his golf swing and some of
the things that he's doing, do you think it's something
that we're going to see players try and emulate in

(41:02):
their game. Uh? And what are the pitfalls and what
are the downside of trying to do that? Yeah? I
mean I think listen, every everybody has an idol and
everybody sees these great players and tries to take pieces
from them. And I think that that's fine, and think
it's fine to do that, but you have to understand

(41:23):
how it fits into your puzzle. Every every player is
just a different puzzle to me, and it's just figuring
out what button to press. And when I watch guys
that are on the corn Ferry Tour that have been
there and they don't make it to the PGA Tour,
to me, there's some conflict. They even don't either don't
believe they're good enough to be out there or they're
they're still trying too hard to figure out all the pieces.

(41:44):
And in many cases those guys probably need somebody to
go in and just shred it all and go just
do this, stop messing around, Just do this right. Because
when I look out here on tour, I mean I'm
in Palm Springs this week. Listen, this this is this
is like such an open golf course. There's three golf
course is. The weather is absolutely perfect, the conditions are perfect,
and there's tons of guys that could win this week.

(42:06):
It doesn't actually really showcase somebody like John but um,
it doesn't actually showcase his you know, because everybody can
do it this week. You gotta get him on a
Collies are perfect, the greens are perfect. And that's the
one thing I don't think that a lot of people
that watch golf realize there are certain golf courses that

(42:30):
if you are one of the elite players in the world,
you want the golf course, you want the test to
be the hardest test. That was the thing that I
think that made when Brooks was on that run where
he won four out of six majors, he wanted the
golf courses he loved it when it was tough. He
wanted the golf courses to be difficult. He wanted that

(42:51):
pressure to be amped up. He wanted he wanted to
be in the semifinals to get to the finals, right,
he wanted to be in the in the NFC Championship game.
That's what he wants. He wants it tough. And John
is one of those players that's in that headspace to where, yes,
can he win when you have to shoot absolutely, but

(43:15):
he can win when it takes eight to ten under
and three over is going to make the cup. But
but that that's why Brooks and him is so similar, right,
is because they've got a game that can travel anywhere
at any time, and they know that it just lets
more guys into the field. If a guy gets hot
with the putter conditions like does anybody could really win
the thing, right Whereas when you look at golf courses

(43:38):
like Tory Pines, like the US Open type golf courses.
I mean last year the British Open at Sandwich, we
were praying for the wind to blow, you know, we
were like, it's just come on blow, because that's where
a John Rahm can take advantage. He strikes it beautifully.
The wind's not going to affect the flight of that
golf ball as much as it is other guys. And
he knows how to control it when when it dies

(43:59):
down and it is what it is. It lets just
so many more guys come into the field. Now that
that's fine too, but they they really relish it when
the conditions are tough. And and that's when you know
you've got a player that really owns his game. And
there's probably ten of them on tour that can really
do that, that can take their game every week to

(44:19):
every golf course. And I like my guy's chances because
of how many top tens he keeps putting in, how
many chances he keeps giving himself. And he listen, he
had and what I would consider an average round yesterday
still shot six on the par But in these conditions,
that was about what I expected him to shoot yesterday,
you know, for an average round. You know, Phil Nicholson,

(44:41):
We've talked about him. We talked about him when he
when he won the p g A and you and
I talked about him on the podcast back um last summer.
The influence and the the impact that Phil has had
on John's game. They both went to Arizona State. Phil
has spent in an enormous around amount of time around John.

(45:02):
John is spent an enormous amount of time on Phil.
You're one of Phil's best friends. You guys all spend
time together. What impact and influence do you think Phil
has had on John as a player but also as
a person. You know, that's a great question. I mean,
you know, Phil has done so much, not only for
this game, and you know, listen, if he I personally

(45:26):
think the guy can still win, like I mean, he
just proved, I mean, and if he never does, He's
fifty one years only won the PJA Championship. You really,
I mean, that's so hard to do, especially against the
guy like Brooks that was playing with him, right and
and you know, he's at that point in his life
where he's done so much, but I still believe there's

(45:47):
more to do for him and that he could still
compete for as long as he really wants to. I
think in John's case, with Phil, Phil challenges John, it
gives John a target in turn ms of you know,
Tiger is at that level that listen, maybe once in
a lifetime, and when we saw Jack Nicholas ben Hogan.

(46:08):
I would put Tiger in that category. Phil's probably just
below that. I mean forty something wins. We may never
see a player that has forty something wins. I mean
Tiger out of the equation at eighty something, but forty
something wins with the quality of golf that's out there today,
that is gonna be really hard to do. I mean,
your exempt on the PGA Tour, if you have twenty wins,

(46:29):
I'll be shocked at how many people can get twenty
wins anymore. You know, there will be a small handful,
and there is a small handful mouthlet have had twenty wins.
But I think Phil has been a great sounding board
for John. It's helped him deal with the world around golf.
You know that from the media request what most people
don't see. You know, it's not just showing up and

(46:52):
playing golf and signing a few autographs. There's so much
that these guys are asked to do, and it's managing
that and the betting you get, the more you're asked
to manage it, and you have to you have to
realize that's going to take time away from your practice,
and and that's hard for some guys, and Phil has
done an exceptional job at that and continues to do so. Um,

(47:14):
so John's learned from that. I think John's learned. I mean,
there's nobody better with the fans and Phil, I mean,
you know, you'll watch him play golf. He didn't play
well yesterday and after the round he stood there signing
autographs for almost forty minutes, right, I mean, who does that.
I don't know any other player that does that, and
he does them right, and and then I think I

(47:38):
think in many ways their relationship it's it's kind of
fun to watch because Phil will throw something and then
John fights back. You know, it's like I'm gonna show you,
and and it's kind of like this this fight. When
I see them together, there's this little bit of a
rub with each other. And uh, I think they both
have tremendous respect for you. I think on phil side,

(47:59):
he looks of John's was like a little brother. That man,
this kid is so good, and I think he's almost
excited to watch him play. But on the other side,
when he teas it up, he wants to beat you
on and he wants to show that this old guy
can still can still play the game, and and to me,
that's the secret for Phil, as Phil has nothing to
prove to anybody. I love to see him go play

(48:22):
and get back into creating shots and hitting shots, and
I think I think he can find it at any time.
And to me, he should go out every day and
try and shoot fifty eight and if he shoot seventy
five or six, who cares. When we look at UM
this coming year, I mean obviously, when you're John Ram,
you're the number one player in the world, you won
your first major last year. I mean he's going to

(48:42):
be one of the five guys every single major this
year that everybody's going to expect to win. When you
look at Augusta, when you look at US Open, is
at it opens that m the country Club, claim the
country Club, the Open Championship St. Andrew's and then p

(49:03):
g A at Southern Hills. How do those golf course?
I mean, obviously every golf course sets up well for
John because of his skill set in the toolbox he has.
But specifically around Augusta around up an old school kind
of US Open course like the country Club, the home
of golf. St. Andrew's with all of the wind, and

(49:23):
then UM Southern Hills. I mean, that's a great, great
old school golf course as well. How did the let's
just take the Masters to start with. What do you
like about his game at Augusta and what do you
think he can do well there? I think John's iron
game is getting really good. We're really working hard on
distance control, and that's the key at Augusta, right, So

(49:44):
you know he's drives that. You don't have to drive
it exceptionally accurately at Augusta because there's really no rough
to speak of most of the times, but you have
to put yourself in a position off the tea, which
there's no problem for him. He can do that. It's
really the quality of the iron. He strikes the aliens
really well. We just need to get a little bit
better at hitting our spots and then just let it

(50:06):
happen and not try any harder. He knows how to
play that golf course. He's he's being close. I mean
he hasn't played it much. I mean he's only twenty six,
so it's not like he's been out there as long
as some of these guys are. So it's a learning
process every time you go out. They tweaked it a
little bit this time around. I know they've made some
changes on eleven and some changes on fifteen, but um,

(50:27):
but again, I think that it sets up beautifully for John.
That's a golf course that has so much. There's so
much there. I think every every player that teas it
up would just love to win Augusta. And he definitely would,
and I think he can do it. I really do.
And then p g A. We go to Southern Hills,
you know, long golf course. Yeah, long golf course, So
Southern Hills. You know, it all depends Now, now we

(50:49):
get into weather time, right, so weather time at every
major weather can be a factor. But if it's dry
and warm, Southern Hills can get boiling hot. The last
time I was there, it was more of a June.
This time it'll be a little bit earlier, so maybe
it won't be quite as hot. But that's a big
golf course that, again I think sets up beautifully for John.
Brook Lines probably another one that you know I would

(51:11):
look at John and Brooks. It's a it's another big
golf course. I expect the rough to be thick, lush,
you gotta you gotta golf your golf ball there and
those two guys can do that, and then St Andrew's
is you know, that's probably the one that everybody would
want to win at St Andrew's, right, I mean, who wouldn't.
It's a hundred and fifty British open at St Andrew's.

(51:33):
But you know again, we go there and we're praying
for weather Man. We were just like, come on, give
me something. I don't want this to be a beautiful, clear,
you know, cloudless day at St Andrew's because you want
it to show its teeth for everybody. The danger there,
as you know, is British opens. You can miss the
wrong side of the drawer. I remember those years ago

(51:53):
at Merefield when it was blowing. I think Tiger was
out there was blowing thirty and raining sideways in the
morning and all of a sudden the afternoon it was
perfect and then it flapped the next day. It was
so you could get on the bad side of the
drawer and be messed up there. But I remember at
Merefield Um that year where Tiger went out. I was
working with Trevor Immelman. He played in the morning that

(52:14):
day and just as he got done was when Tiger
was going to the range Trevor was going to the range.
You could see the bad weather coming in. I mean
you could just see it. I mean everybody knew. It
looked like Armageddon was going to happen. And I said
to Trevor when we were going off the driving range,
I said, let's go back to your apartment and and
he rented an apartment in North Berwick. I said, we'll
sit and watch. I said, you're gonna go up thirty

(52:36):
or forty spots by just sitting on the couch because
the weather is going to be horrendous. Tiger shot up
a million that day. Um, and and you can get
caught out by that. When John looks at golf courses
like that, like the Open Championship where there's a lot
of wind um historically, what is he like about that challenge?
Is it the ability to kind of flight it? And

(52:58):
he is. I find him to be more creative than
people think. Oh yeah, And I think that's just you know,
he is a student of the game. I mean, if
you if you want to ask John Rahm any question
about any tournament at any time, he can tell you
who want it. He's got like a photographic memory when
it comes to tournaments. He knows who won, what golf

(53:18):
course it was, on what they did coming down the stretch.
It's amazing. So and I think that's another a big
plus for him that he does that and he understands
the history of golf and he looks back at old
tournaments to watch what happened and how they played those holes,
and I think he he can't wait to showcase his game.
And I think a lot of that creativity comes from

(53:39):
growing up in Spain, you know, with Sevy as your idol,
as every kid's idol, and then the next one you've
got Jose Marine and then you've got Sergio. If you
think of those three players alone and their ability to
move and their short game ability and there they're different
golf swings and what they the attributes they have. John's
just falling in a line of those great players as

(54:01):
far as I see, And I mean, he can hit
beautiful low sting of two irons. He can hit a
drive a ten feet off the ground that goes forever.
So you just don't see it here in America because
it's not really required. So I just think those are
the kinds of things why we were praying for things
like that because We're like, we can showcase a whole
nother range of what John rom can do. Yeah, And

(54:23):
the other part about this, if you look at the
other major championships that we talked at, specifically Augusta and
the U s Open. The other thing that John has
the ability to do, which is so so rare, is
he can hit that four iron that just basically goes
to the moon and comes straight down, very similar to
what Tiger could do. Tiger could hit his flight, his
long irons not only low the stinger. Everybody focuses on

(54:47):
Tiger stinger. But the one thing that my dad always
talks about that Tiger, you know, it was just, you know,
the thing that everybody gets fascinated with the Tiger is
the stinger. But he can take a three iron and
hit it as high as some people can hit a wedge.
And I think John is in that category as well
as one of those players that four or five three irons.
He can hit towering iron shots into these back whole

(55:09):
locations to where he needs to have the golf ball
land and not spin and just basically come down and stop.
So he has all of those tools. What do you
think two looks like for for John, I mean, what
are what are his goals and and what are kind
of the targets that he's got. Yeah, I mean, we
sit down and we want to improve upon last year.

(55:30):
And you know, so we look at last year ago.
It was an amazing year. You won your first major,
and you know, the goal always is to win a major. Um.
I think in his mind he would like to convert
some of those top tens and two wins. I mean,
we had a lot of chances and some of them
didn't go. And you know, we were in an interesting world.
I mean, and unless and nobody knows what would have happened.

(55:52):
At Memorial he was leading by six he gets COVID,
but that was a week when his ball striking was
at a whole other level again and I I just
can't see him squandering a six shot lead. So you know,
that's one of those that I'm like, okay, but it
is what it is, and and it showed his maturity
and the way he handled that. I was so proud
of him. And people think that was written and scripted.

(56:14):
How he did that, that was all John wrong. Nobody
told him what to say, Nobody scripted. Here's what you've
got to say that all came out of him, right
and and I think that just gave him this KMMA
from the public that you know, you could feel how
people can lift you. And when we got the Tory
Pines all along, I mean even coming down the stretch

(56:34):
as good as those other guys were playing, and there
were three or four that were right there, I just
I just knew. I just knew that if he just
kept giving himself chances. You know, I was walking with
his wife, Kelly, who was very nervous, and I'm like,
he's gonna win, He's gonna win. But I just kept
telling he's gonna win. And and there's just so much
good karma there for him. And and listen, we're going

(56:56):
to Tory next week. So it's always different than the
out up, but it brings back such good memories for him,
and whether he wins or not, it's it's a it's
a great golf course for him. So it sets up
nice to start the year with what we've got coming
right now. And to me, one of the other things
that identifies John Rome as one of the best players
in the game, it's lost that he changed fourteen clubs

(57:19):
in the ball last year. He changed his entire equipment
from Taylor made and yes irons, irons are irons, but
to be able to change the putter and then the
driver ball combination, and he did that, Dave seamlessly. There
was never any look that there was an issue, and

(57:39):
it just goes to show you that the best players
can basically play with anything. They really can. And you know,
I think that the minute he changed, he was like,
I'm going to figure this out. And there was a
few tweets and a few of this and a few
of that, and there still are today. There's one or
two clubs that we're just trying to figure out. And
it's really more for horses, right because you start looking

(58:01):
at do we carry the five wood today or do
we put the two iron in? Um, I'd like the
three wood to do a little bit of this little
so they're out of pages tweaked, but the driver, the ions,
the wedges have been amazing. The potter change was a
huge change, and you know, most people don't realize that
he used a thirty seven inch long potter, which you

(58:21):
can't just go buy one of those in the store,
and it's really long compared with if you look at
Patrick Campley that's putting amazing. Is down at like a
thirty four inch putter. And again, you know, for for
your users out there, you want to get what's comfortable
for you. And and I I remember the day when
we went to that length putter because he was actually
in college and he came to t p I and

(58:43):
he was struggling with putting and he goes, I just
don't feel comfortable. I feel like with this length putter.
He was using a thirty five inch putter. I'm two
over the ball and I'm I'm not comfortable. And I go, well,
where do you feel most comfortable? And I had this
adjustable potter because back then they had the valley pudders, right,
I said, take this putta and tell me just keep
extending it until you feel comfortable. And he gets it

(59:06):
and he got right there, and we get his eyeline
and gets right there and I measure it's thirty seven inches.
I'm like, let's get you a thirty seven inch potter
so we can call up Tim Nicholson and I go,
he needs a thirty seven inch potter. They get him
a thirty seven inch potter and he's been in the
same length ever since, yeah, I did not know that,
but that actually makes sense now because if you look
at the way he puts, it always looks like his

(59:28):
chest he's way more up and his head angle is
way more up than a lot of the players that
look like they're way more bent over. And that's going
to naturally. I would imagine the thirty seven inch putter
for him helped the putter naturally swing a little bit
more on an arc as opposed to him having to
try and do it and manipulate it himself with his hands.

(59:49):
It did. And and you know, listen that John's a
big guy, so six ft three, and you know a
lot of people don't think the more bent over if
if there was any struggle, it was that the product
might get a little bit outside and and kind of
hang on and hold and uh, you know, so I
was just trying to get a little bit more flow
to the putter and and uh, it's he's just getting

(01:00:11):
better and better, and I'm so excited for him, and
and and and again, like I said to you, it's
it's a team effort. If you see what spenceritate him,
his fitness professional in Arizona does with him in the
off weeks and gets that lower body strong and moving.
And Jimmy you on the fitness medical professional that works
his hips and make sure that he understands the stretches
he needs to go before he plays. And we even

(01:00:34):
do foot mobility work and ankle mobility work when we're
on the road, and it's just these little tiny things.
And and that team is constantly talking. And that's that's
one thing I think that's kind of missed as we
all have these teams, and there's a lot of people
today on some of these teams, and these guys are
playing for a lot of money and and to have

(01:00:54):
a team around the player that has a great nucleus
and talks together and laughs to gether and and it's
not about us, It's about building the sphere of this
bubble around John to allow him to go do what
he needs to do. Right to me, that's the goal.
It's it's that's the goal. And and whoever you are,

(01:01:15):
you know, if you're an amateur or an aspiring young
player that wants to be great, I get it. You're
not gonna have this team around you. But your team
maybe your brother, your dad, your mom. There's lots of
people on a team. But but get that nucleus around
you what really helps you figure it out because you
need help. There's there's too much information out there, and

(01:01:36):
today especially with social media and all the stuff that's
being posted. What I'm trying to avoid is all of
this bombardment that these guys get. And if you think
they don't get it, they do. I mean they've got
a lot of the long time. Yeah, and John Cease thinks.
I mean he loves watching YouTube videos and sees things
that other players and and he'll he'll ask me though,
He'll know to go, should I be doing this? You know,

(01:01:58):
I'm like no. Lastly, Um, the titles performance. You and
Dr Greg Rose founded that. Um, you know I met
you guys early on in two thousand three, two four
changed my life. You guys have probably had his biggest
influence on me and my career, as as as my
father has. How many t p I certified Um people

(01:02:20):
do you guys have now? And where is t p
I in two Well, that's you know, that's really uh
nice of you to say. I mean, you know, it's
it's become an amazing organization. I mean t p I
is now. You know, we have over twenty seven thousand
t p I certified experts in sixty two countries around
the world. We educated ten different languages and and to

(01:02:42):
see the growth. And you know, when I walk out
here and guys come up to me and say, hey,
I'm t p I, it's been great. And I love
what people are doing with the information. I love that
they're taking it and making their own and building business
out and helping any golfer in every golfer understand this process.
And and you know, my message to your you know
the people that are listening is if you're struggling with golf,

(01:03:05):
this is a real easy thing. Find go online my
TPI dot com, put in your zip code, find a
tp I certified expert in your area, and go ask
them to give you a physical assessment screen. Find out
what's going on in your body. Because it unlocks the keys.
It tells you why you're struggling, and it gives you direction.
And you know, there's a lot of great coaches out

(01:03:26):
there that are doing this now and I'm just trying
to bread that message. So for t p I, we're
gonna kind of expand what we do. We've got some
great apps coming out and We're really gonna try and
push and get We've we've been kind of a B
two B where we trained golf professionals, medical professionals and
Finnish professionals. But we're gonna start to kind of go

(01:03:47):
more to the consumer, but drive them to experts that
they can find to help their game. And I think
it's so important today you know, and and listen. Movement
is key, right. Movement should be a vital sign when
you go to the doctor. You know if there's something
with your heart or your pulse rate. But if you
can't get out of bed in the morning, or every
time you swing a golf club you're in pain. That's movement.

(01:04:07):
So move better to play better, and that that's the
key man. And it's not normal to be in pain
while you're hitting golf ball. No, you should not be
in pain while you're hitting golf ball, exactly. I said.
The last thing. I can't let you go without talking
about the coffee I had coffee that I had it
this morning. I drink when I'm home. I drink it

(01:04:29):
every single day. One of your other business ventures with
Bill Nicholson Coffee for Wellness Um. Seriously, it's part of
my daily rituals my life. I'm gonna take someone to
start doing what you do and take it on the
road with me. How's that doing for you, guys? It's
staring great. I'm actually uh yeah, I'm so excited about that.
It was just kind of a little kind of hobby

(01:04:50):
of mine that became a business and now people are
loving it. And we actually have some bites coming out
snacks for wellness that are all glute and free elect
and free, really good for you that that help you focus.
That little snack when you're a little bit hungry or
you don't want something that fills you up, but you
need something so you know, mid morning mid afternoon is
a great little snack. And I think people really love those.

(01:05:11):
And the coffee and the additive and the stuff that
we're putting in it, the good stuff is is doing great.
So I appreciate you using it and if if you
need any let me know. And if people are interested
in our coffee, go to Coffee for Wellness or for
Wellness dot com and check it out. Well, I'm proud
of all the work you're doing. It was nice to
see UM a major championship, you know, be part of

(01:05:33):
of of what you're doing. And um, I certainly wouldn't
be where I am in my career without you and
and and Greg and uh, you know, I'm lucky to
call you guys mentors, but also lucky to call you
guys friends. So thanks for taking the time and I'll
catch up with you next week. We've got about So

(01:05:54):
that was Dave Phillips talking about all things John rom
and uh, unique insight to you know, the number one
player in the world. If you haven't listened, Dave was
part of he was episode number two back in June
where he was talking about Phil Nicholson winning the p
g A and you know he talked about in the
pod there, uh John's relationship with Phil. So um, if

(01:06:15):
you haven't listened to that one, that's a good one
to go check it out. Uh questions this week, I
thought I would take an scene as we're talking about
gen Ron this week. I don't know if you can
find it on social media. John was caught on a
hot mic on Sunday at the American Express out and
the Odam Palm Springs not a fan of the set
up last week And if you haven't haven't heard it

(01:06:39):
or seen it, check it out listen. I love it
when players get caught on hot mics. I mean, they
all do it, and it shows you that they're human.
It shows you that they're not robots. But I get
a lot of questions from players saying, listen, our golf
course is set up for specific players. Why do players
play well on specific golf courses and stuff? And I
think you dave about that. Where Palm Springs, you've got

(01:07:02):
the number one player in the world, it's a shootout.
You've got to shoot super super low. And you would
think the best player in the world currently John Rome,
that would suit his game. But a really, for lack
of a better term, an easy golf course with perfect
conditions and perfect greens doesn't always suit the best players.
And there are a lot of players that I've worked

(01:07:22):
with in the past when we're looking at their schedule,
they will be looking at different golf courses and saying, yes,
I've played really really good there. I haven't played really
good there. I like the golf course, I don't like
the golf course. About four or five years ago, when
I was working with Trevor Immelman, who's been on the
podcast as well, UM, we were trying to plan his schedule,

(01:07:43):
and he was looking at going out and he started
out in the Desert and he played horrendous in the Desert.
Um he played horrendous in Palm Springs, and I was
talking to him on the phone and he was like,
nothing we're working on is working. It's you know, I'm
playing terrible. I'm going to go to Tory Pines next
week and I'm going to shoot ninety. And I said, Trevor,
you will go to Tory Pines next week and play really,

(01:08:05):
really well because it's a really, really hard golf course.
It's a ball striker's golf course. You can't fake your
way around there. And I said, you've always been an
elite ball striker. That's your strength. Palm Springs, maybe Phoenix,
easy golf courses, I told him, I said, that doesn't
suit your game. Your game is suited to where you
know eight to twelve under is going to win, not

(01:08:28):
when under thunder is going to win. And so he
was like, oh, that's bullshit. You know, you know I'm
not hitting it good. So I went through and looked,
and I looked at the places that he normally played
well on Tory, played great at Memorial, played decent at
Colonial and and that week I think he ended up
finishing top inside maybe the top ten that week, and

(01:08:48):
having played horrendous on an easy golf course, he thought
he was going to go to Tory Pines and it
was one of his best results of the year because
the golf course was was more difficult. And then you
have players that aren't great accuracy, that aren't great with
short game, and and and a set up like Tory Pines,
a US Open setup doesn't necessarily suit their game. So
when players are looking at courses, yes there's going to

(01:09:12):
be courses that they like if they've won there before,
there's a comfort level, but they're looking at kind of
what they're that what suits their game. And uh, I
remember having a conversation with Brooks one time and we
were talking about amending his schedule because he wanted the
golf courses to be the hardest. And if you look
at kind of what he did and the calling card

(01:09:33):
of of his career, the dominance he has shown in
major championships, it's because he liked that test it suited
his game. So that's a question that I get all
the time. Our golf course is suited to certain players
and why the golf courses. Um, why do players go
to certain golf course? Why do players have success on
on certain golf courses? UM? Really really excited to have

(01:09:55):
Dave talked about John Rahm on the podcast. It's hopefully
something that I can continue to do to try and
get the coaches of these great players and give you
guys kind of a unique insight into what they're doing,
how they do it, and why they do it and
what makes them such great players. UM, thanks to everybody
for listening. It's UM, it's crazy to think that this

(01:10:15):
is episode thirty seven, but Dave Phillips was on episode
two and daniel King having just one on the Lady Store,
she won their Tournament of Champions on the LPGA Tour.
She was on a couple of weeks with my dad.
So if you haven't had a chance to take a
listen to that one, it's a good one because Danielle
is going to continue to win golf tournaments. And again, UM,
the goal of this is to try and get players

(01:10:37):
and their coaches and and and talk about what makes
them great players. And I thought the one that Danielle
did with my dad, butch Harmon was a fantastic listen
so um. If you haven't had a chance to check
that one out, check it out. Mane, thanks everyone for
listening and we will see you next week.