Harry Higgs Interview: Doing things his own way on Tour, what it was like playing with Bryson in college and the invaluable lessons he learned from Dustin Johnson at The Masters

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's episode fifty two of Off Course with Claude Harmon.
You know the drill will come to you every Wednesday.
This week's guests Harry Higgs. Um, he's listen. I think
he's one of my favorite people on the PGA tour
and um, he's a huge, huge fan favorite. And UM,
I think this is um about as authentic uh an

(00:33):
interview as you're gonna get. You're gonna get a great
insight into kind of his personality, his character and what
makes him tick. Um. And like I said, uh, I'm
a huge, huge fan and I've gotten to spend some
time with Harry at tournaments and um it's a hell
of a lot of fun. So before we get to
the interview with Harry, a quick reminder that the new

(00:53):
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(01:15):
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You've seen a bunch of guys on tour using these,
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twenty nine at Cobra golf dot com. So now let's

(01:39):
get to the interview with a big Rig Higgs. Alright,
my guest this week is big Rig Higgs. Harry, Where
the hell did that nickname come from? I mean, it's
a great nickname, obviously, it fits everything that I know
that you are about. But where the hell did you

(02:01):
get that nickname? Man? It's I and it's weird even
I guess I would call him a friend. Now, Scott
van Pell comes up to me and my brother on
the range last year at Kiowa, I want to say,
Tuesday afternoon, and he's just like, hey, man, me and
me and my boy Steve Stanford, Steve, you know, shout out, um,

(02:22):
We're we're big fans like you. Think I could take
a picture with you and I'll send it to my
boy Steve. And I'm just like, dude, I am. I
can guarantee you, Scott, I'm a way bigger fan of
yours than you are mine. Um, and he just he
kept going on a big rig and then I, you know,
I wind up doing some as I kind of always do,
or every other week doing some crazy ship holding some

(02:43):
crazy shots. Uh so get up, get on TV and
and he's letting big rig rip um on on TV,
you know, that whole week because he's doing the coverage.
So it's unfortunately, you know, it's all organic. I didn't
come up with any of these nicknames. And the Colt
has a big beautiful as well. And as you guys,
I'm sure could imagine, I've been calling much worse in

(03:05):
my in my days, So either one of these is
totally totally cool with me. Had you met Scott ben
Pelt before, No, I had never met him before. We
I think I had gotten some some messages back and
forth on Instagram with Stanford Steve Um, but never met Scott.
And they're just you know the man. We're big, big fans, Scott.

(03:25):
I'm a way bigger fan of yours than you are mine.
You are a way in the grand scheme of things,
You're a way bigger deal than I. How about how
tall Scott ben Pelta is. He's like an enormous giant
human being enormous. And we saw him again at Augusta
a couple of weeks ago. My and my brother and
my coach, Corey Londberg were there and we walked back
to the back of the Chipping Green. We were just

(03:47):
like enjoying it again. I think it was again a
Tuesday afternoon, enjoying just like the serenity that if you
can find places alone yourself at Augusta with with you know,
basically two of mine, but one is actually my brother
and I would call Corey my coach, you know, my
our older brother. And Scott comes walking out of the
little studio and he was he He didn't walk all

(04:08):
the way down like past us, so that you know,
he's like pitched up and he's taller up the hill
and so even he looked like a nine ft giant.
I mean, the man is a he's a very tall,
very tall, good looking man. But that was we were
all just kind of looking straight up and Scott having
a conversation with him. Um, yeah, enormous dude, but great
people we had. We had a couple of run ins
throughout the week. Just a couple of weeks ago at

(04:30):
the Masters, he met my mom and dad and they're
you know, loving all that he was. He's just good people, man.
I mean, you for someone that you know. I can
still remember when you were playing in the balstpar Collegiate
Invitational at the Floridians. You are on a heater or
of a run with regards to the fans of golf

(04:51):
embracing you. I mean, all right, when did you kind
of become aware of the fact because I remember I
was watching you on the corn Ferry Tour and I
was working with UM Chris Ventura, who went to Columba State,
and so you were on and you had been playing
good and I was watching on TV. Didn't you know.
Ryan Chrysler, who works for me, went to s m U.

(05:11):
So he was like, Harry Higgs is a man and
everything like that. And I'm watching you with the shirt
undone and these glasses. And I said to Um, I
said to to KB, I said, Chris, is this Harry
kids a good guy? Because is this like an act
or is it like is it real? And and and
Chris went no, and he said, he's like the best guy.

(05:31):
And so what people don't realize is the PGA Tour.
Once you get there, it's like high school. Right, it's
like being in high school. You've got the cool kids,
You've got the really it's like an eight it's like
a bad eighties high school movie movie. Right, You've got
like the really cool kids, like Rory is like Roy's
driving the Ferrari and he's got the cool things and
all the d j's and everything, and then you've got

(05:54):
all these different clicks and you've come on the scene.
And I've never really spent a lot of time around
you know, we talked, but the practice rounds we you
played with DJ at the Masters. Honestly, every day a
J is saying to me, dude, we gotta play practice
rounds with this guy every single week. It was so
much fun. When have you had that kind of ah

(06:17):
ha moment where you're like, I don't know how I've
connected with the golfing public, but you have. I mean
you you you've got this, but don't know it's to me.
I look at your your persona and it's like you're
the living embodiment in two of what like Caddy Shack
would have they had a baby. Right, so it came out.

(06:40):
You've got the shirt, you've got the glasses. You know,
you're you're not, you know, I mean, you don't look
like Colin Morricala or DJ right, And it seems to
me like you don't give a ship that you don't
look like that now. I mean, there's been a lot
of a lot of hard work to look like this,
you know, for I guess I just turned thirty. Um yeah,
and like it's a lot so much of it is

(07:02):
just dumb luck. I mean, I'm a big guy. I've
got big round shoulders, and I've always warned my shirts
like this because if I button it up any further,
it feels like I'm like getting choked and I can't,
like I won't be able to move how I want
to move. And then the glasses right, like I can't
probably I can't really see distances that well, So you know,
we're kind of prescription sunglasses and like I love I

(07:25):
feel that the way, and I have a hard time
with blues and greens. So you know, hit a shot
into the sky and it starts going down to the
words of ground and I can't see the damn thing
land because just the change of color. Um, So, I
mean it helps me some there, I still can hardly
see my ball land anymore. Um So, it's just it's
totally dumb luck. Like I say, I need the shirt

(07:46):
to be unbuttoned. Um so I feel like I can
move and I feel like I'm not getting you know, claustrophobic.
And then the sunglasses are just I like to like
tint my world. And I mean, I wear these things.
I remember wearing them off Saturday, AUGUSTA, and its like
when we made the turn ten eleven, twelve thirteen, kind
of down there left of thirteen, it was so oddly

(08:08):
dark for like two thirty in the afternoon. I was
thinking I was and I have moments where I panicked, like,
oh sh it, do I have to take my sunglasses off?
And it takes like a hole or two to get
to get readjusted Like I I'm I'm kind of just
trying to you know, it's just a different shade, right,
um And I've done it before, like first off or

(08:29):
even my rookie year, when you get thrown into the
you know, last group or two, you know, late in
an afternoon and I gotta play a hole or two
in the dark. And then I remember vividly being my
first tournament and it was Friday afternoon, ting off late
at Greenbrier years ago, what now three and a half
years ago, and just being like you know what, I naw,
I'm not taking these things off and just hold I

(08:51):
just kind of like hit and hoped one from like
thirty five ft on eighteen and hooped it. I couldn't
see a thing. Just when I found the whole, grabbed
my ball, you know, off to the hotel and to
come to do it again the next morning. Um. There
are there are definitely times where it's weird when I
get these early tea times the sun isn't even up yet,
Like I'm I'm hitting puts without my sunglasses on. I'm

(09:12):
hitting shots about my sunlasses on, and I kind of
get to the first tea and I look out and
I look out and I'll kind of pull them out
of my pocket and put them on and be like, Noah,
I think I need to play a whole or two
without them on. Or most of the time I just
ask for it. I'll just leave them on even though
it's dark. Um, but now, man, it's it's dumb luck
and I'm I'm also, I would say one of the
fortunate ones that I am just being myself and for

(09:34):
some reason people take a liking to that, and it's
still baffling to me that people want to come watch
me play golf. Um. And there are certainly times, much
like any one of us, that you would rather just
kind of be left alone, right. You would like it
to be as quiet as possible. If things aren't going well,
you're trying to focus, grind down around on a difficult day.

(09:56):
You don't want to hear all this stupid ship people
yell at you, and like you, it's impossible not to
hear it anymore. Um, So you just you do your
best to block that out. But I'm going to I'm
going to get that maybe more than anyone else because
I look more like those that would yell stupid shit
at the golf course. I look like them, but I'm
just inside the roads getting to play. Um. I remember

(10:19):
playing with Louise Cat Louie in the in the playoff
event in Baltimore last year, Hottest Ship Me awful walk,
awful walk. And I remember him coming up to me
on like fifteen on Sunday and we were in like
THIRTI so it didn't really matter. But I was having
a nice day and he just comes up to me.
It's like, you know, I just never would even really

(10:41):
put two and two together that, like, you're really good
at this too, you know, you just look the way
you look, act the way you act, like you'd figured
that this is just, you know, all a joke. We're
we'd love to be out here. Oh great, this is
oh awesome. I get to mix it up with you know,
my heroes. It's like no, no, no, I'm yeah it
was Butchee at the time. Time. Um, and I just
know him as but yet really I don't. I don't

(11:03):
even know that I got his first name, and I
just it's like, yeah, I really really enjoy beating people,
like I am good at I know I'm good at this.
At times, there's times where I need to remind myself that, yeah,
I am good at this. I'm obviously here for a reason.
I've had success over a handful of years for a reason. Um.
But I'm also fortunate in the same regard that I

(11:24):
just gonna be my kind of silly self and I
don't really even do it that often. I mean, I
obviously take this very seriously and want to. I have
things that I have not achieved. Plenty more that I
haven't achieved versus things that I have achieved. Um so
I got plenty more things that I want to check off.
And in doing that, it it takes a lot of work.
It takes a lot of focus and a lot of
man hours. Um but I'm I'm lucky, man, I'm lucky.

(11:46):
I get to be myself and people for some reason
taking liking to it. Let's go back to the beginning.
What were you like as a junior golfer? So when
you're playing, did you do the whole junior things to
do the whole a j g A thing. Did you
travel around the country or were you more of like
a regional guy where you kind of stayed in one
area and played there. And yeah, yeah, for the most part,
I we we moved from the Philadelphi area to Kansas

(12:08):
City when I was in fourth grade, and we moved
right don't to a golf course, So that pretty much
I had. I had already had a set of clubs,
but didn't play a toime. That kind of kick started everything.
I was okay, I could just finish up school, ride
my bike with my clubs on my back, um, down
to the golf course, play there all day long. Um. Yeah,
we stayed I stayed local regional for for a good while,

(12:32):
and I mean I was good. I was head taller
than everybody else and probably thirty forty pounds heavier than
everybody else, so it was easy for me. And you
hit like I mean, I remember playing like, you know,
the Red Teas nine hole, you know, twelve thirteen year
old events, and I'm I'm hitting wedges into part five's
and driving part four is like thinking, this is the

(12:52):
easiest thing in the world. Um, And then everybody else
got a little bigger, they all got better, and the
golf courses just got longer and or just progressively, right,
I wouldn't you know, you wouldn't classify any of the
golf courses now. It's hard if you went back and played,
but you know, people caught up. So then I just
had to find other ways to you know, continue to
get better. And I had a great um. They were

(13:14):
probably five six kids around my age. They were very competitive,
and they were all a few years older than me
that I grew up with, so it was great just
getting in the mix with them. And then some of
them were, you know, most of them were better than
me for a long time, even throughout like high school golf, um.
And then you know, it was just always just trying
to kind of learn in my ways from them and

(13:36):
also just playing compete with them, play with people you're
better there or that are better than you. And then
you know, late late high school, I did some A
J A G A stuff and and you know it
was I think I was fortunate to kind of always
have success, always play in smaller tournaments around you know, Kansas,
Missouri regional stuff, have success almost always. I felt like

(13:58):
I had a chance to win. Um. So then when
I got into these national events, like I didn't really
know when these kids were anyway, and I figured, well,
I'm I show up to golf tournaments and I usually
have a chance to win, um, so that's no different here.
You almost just like playing dumb um. And yeah, I
had some success kind of nationally, uh, leading into high

(14:18):
school and through high school and then um, you know,
off to college and then you kind of get your
teeth kicked in, right. You're kind of around guys that
are really really a lot better than you. And I
learned a lot, for sure, And I didn't really feel
like I knew I was always going to give professional
golf go that's what I've what what I wanted to

(14:41):
do from the time I started swinging and playing in
golf tournaments is like, this is what I want to do.
That's the I want to play the BJ Tour, right,
that's the that's what we all want to do. UM,
And you know it was it was easier for me.
I I truly believe it was easier for me, especially
in college getting your teeth kicked in a couple of years,
playing with even teammates that are way better than you

(15:02):
and they're gonna run off and you know, play the
PGA Tour or play you know, high level professional golf. UM.
I was never an All American. It wasn't even close
to the Only thing I had to do was just
get better versus those other guys that played for a
year or two and they're all Americans and they go
out and they get these you know, seven stars, so
they get into the X event whatever it may be.
You know, I joke, there's more guys that are All

(15:24):
Americans that come out and fizzle out quickly than there are,
Like I am almost more of the norm on the
PGA Tour, right, Like guys that took three or four
years of kind of sweating it out on many tours
and and trying to get Monday qualifiers all that stuff.
All we have to do is just keep getting better.
We just have to give ourselves an opportunity and take

(15:45):
advantage of the opportunity versus those you get. You get
an All American that gets you know, seven starts on
the PGA Tour and he misses his first four or
five cuts, like he's gonna think he sucks. He's gonna
forget that he was an All American very quickly. And
it's very you know, at this level is very difficul
No one gives a damn if you're an All American
or this big flashy you know, new new toy this.
You know, Oh, this kid is supposed to be a stud. Like, okay, well,

(16:07):
let's if he gets off to a good start, maybe
he will be. But if he doesn't, you know, have
him fail at these you know, seven stars trying to
earn a card and then have him go play Q school, right,
go to some of those first, second, third, you know
stages where you gotta shoot four days and just to
earn the right to play golf turner, just to earn
the right to have a tea time. Um, you know,
have him show up to some of these places that

(16:29):
we do Monday qualifiers at and you gotta shoot eight
nine under and you know, most of them are relatively easy,
but of course condition wise usually aren't great. Like you're
gonna have a few things that they pop up and
make it hard to get to six seven, eight nine under. UM.
So yeah, I mean it was it was easy early
on for me. Um, and then everybody kind of caught up,
and then I just was in the screw it, I'm

(16:51):
just gonna get better and I'll get there. You know.
Everybody everybody thought. I heard Tyson Alexander just one on
the corn Ferry Tour. He's a he's a buddy of mine.
We played together some in Latin America, and he just said,
everybody kind of runs their own race in this in
the pro golf world. And you can get there quick,
you can get there you know late, but it really
doesn't matter what Once you get there, if if you

(17:12):
feel that you are ready, then you'll be you know,
you be off and running. And yeah, had I gotten
to the PJ Tour probably twenty three or four out
of out of college, I was nowhere near good enough.
But had some miracle happened and I had gotten there,
I don't think I would be having the success that
I have now. I I got here at seven, and
I put in five years going all over the world.

(17:34):
I felt like I was ready. It was not. You know,
you some some moments you have to manage. You know
the size of the moment and who you're with, and
oh wow, I got a chance to win a PJA
Tour event what that means, But that's that stuff is
a little easier to manage when you feel like your
game is ready and you've you've kind of put in
the work and put in the time. As a high schooler,
What were you like in high school? First of all,

(17:56):
what was the car I got? I mean, I know
the car was legit. The car was not just a
normal car. I know there's a story behind the car,
and I'm guessing the car had actually yeah, I'll give
you now. I never I never named any cars. I
was not that I feel that I draw the line there.
But I had a well I guess it was kind

(18:17):
of gold gold or khaki ish uh f F four door,
which is not shocking. But the one thing and I
keep forgetting about this. The one thing I don't I
remember I got. I got the car maybe three weeks
or so before my sixteenth birthday. In Kansas, you can
as a fifteen year old where I grew up, you

(18:37):
can you can have like a permit and drive to
work or school at the age of fifteen. So I
got it a few weeks before and I'm driving to
school of fifteen, and I remember, I remember walking out
of the garage the like the three weeks that I
had it before I turned sixteen, and I saw this
like fake crow in the garage, which I figure I

(19:00):
did have no idea what it was doing there. I
would figure it was a Halloween decoration. I turned my
birthdays in December, so it was probably in there after
Halloween whatever. And it's scared the ship out of me
every time, as I don't know why, I know I
noticed it basically right as soon as I got the car.
For some reason, my dumb almost sixteen year old self

(19:23):
was like, you know, the four f one fifty and
the the front end of the car inside the car
has just this big, vast open space, and like, I'll
just put the bird in the front of my car,
right like on top of the dashboard, this whole deal,
and that thing was in there for probably five six years.

(19:46):
I drove it down to Dallas, you know, went to
college with it, um and it was the weird It
was the damnest. It was so like me to like
in a way draw attention to myself, but also just
in like this most the weirdest, dumbest way. And I
I mean for three or four years in Kansas City.
At multiple times I would have people like pull up

(20:10):
next to me and it's not a not a big
you know, not a big town I grew up in anything,
and they would like you would see they would point
at the bird or and then after a while people
were like pointing me roll down the window, roll out.
And then you know, I had like a month where
six seven days I'd be out driving around and people
want me to roll down the window, like dude, we've
seen this car and this bird. What is going on?

(20:30):
And it's like, I don't know, man. I thought it
was a good idea. And then it just kind of
left it here. And after a while the bird started
to you know, get some sun, and it's the black
feathers would kind of wither away. I forget about the
bird in the car. Um that and then we I
went down there. I went down to Dallas. My freshman year,

(20:51):
I had that. I still had the f and fifty
and then we you know, live in the dorms, so
plenty of room to park all this stuff. My second year,
my roommate and I we moved into like a smaller
little apartment and it had a really really uh small
kind of parking spots and then it's like little kind
of U turny almost you shaped um kind of front

(21:14):
driveway basically, and I would park in the middle of
You could park on one end and you could park
on the other end, and then in the middle was
this turn but I could just take up almost all
of it in the truck and still leave room if
people needed to use the kind of you. And that
lasted for like three weeks, you know. Move into that
place early August, early September. I'm getting notes on my car,

(21:36):
but like, hey, man, do you mind putting the truck
in the back. It's it's too big, So the truck
almost and then I came home and my dad was like, yeah,
well we'll just get you another one. I mean, God
loved the man we So I still drive around in
the car, the accurate SUV m d x uelve. I
still haven't gotten myself a new car and none of
that ship. But so the truck ends up back in

(21:58):
Kansas City, right, and I didn't it's tmes into the
neighborhood truck. Well we're at um. I think I was
just out of school. My parents were in Vegas watching
my brother, and they get a call from our neighbor.
It's like, hey, you know, Mike and Denise, did you guys,
you guys took a car, you know, uber or whatever
to the airport. Yeah, and it's like seven in the
morning in Kansas City, so it's you know, five five

(22:21):
o'clock in Vegas. My parents were just you know, miserable
of having to get answer the phone and thinking of
our neighbors just messing with us. Well he's like, okay,
well somebody clearly went through your house last night and
all three garages are open and all three cars are gone.
So they went through the house, took the cars or
flipping over mattresses. They really didn't get much other than
the cars, and that was the end. We got the

(22:44):
f one fifty back. But imagine they took the bird,
so they lasted for like ten years, um, and then
that we still have the f one fifty, but there's
no more bird. I forget about the damn. I put
a bird in the on a dash of my car
this and it looks it looks so real. It was
so scary. Yeah, I would drive around here in the city. So, yeah,

(23:08):
that was the high school, my high school, first car.
Were you popular in high school? I would say so.
I would say it was. It's kind of similar to um,
kind of how the PGA tour is, right, Like I
just kind of got along with everybody, and it was
just I didn't really understand why, you know, those people
over there were hanging out with those people and they

(23:29):
I would say, so that I think I said it.
I don't remember where I said it, and I've had
forgotten about it. But my senior year, you know, they
do the like superlatives, and it's like everybody's honored to
be like voted most likely to succeed or this or that,
or I was voted most likely to brighten your day,
which I think is I think it's pretty fitting and
and I take a lot of a lot of pride

(23:51):
and pleasure and in doing that if I can, and
I'm not gonna do it all the time. Sometimes I
need somebody to come brighten my day. Um. But yeah,
I mean I got along with with everybody high school.
I mean it's it was like four great years. Man,
I really enjoyed it. I don't know, I don't think
i'd be cut out for whatever the hell high school
is like nowadays. Um. I remember getting the phone a

(24:12):
foot phone my freshman year and like in a freshman
year of high school and still not even knowing, like
what the hell what do I need this for? I
couldn't imagine what it's like to be a high school,
you know, high school freshman nowadays. But now I loved it.
I loved high school. I loved college. Yeah, I mean
I got along with I felt everybody. I don't I
would hope that they all agree that that that Harry

(24:35):
got in an asshole. Um. But yeah, I think I
think at least some, if not most, would would give
me glaring reviews about kind of who I was in
high school. And I don't think. I don't think I've
changed really much at all anyway. I mean, I feel
like I've done a decent job of being kind of
the same person, which has just led to you know me,

(24:56):
me having probably you know, good success out here. I
think you don't change anything when you get your when
you have start having success. You know, I'm terrible with
my phone anyway, but I can usually get back to people.
You know, Hey, you know, thank you. I hope you're
doing well, hope to see you soon. Um. I've got
a great, great group of probably thirty guys that I'm
still friends with in high school, and we no, none

(25:16):
of us ever talked to each other until we we
all meet up, and then it's like, you know, no
time had passed since we last seen each other. We
can go five years without seeing one another and we're
right back drinking beer and carrying on and doing stupid shit. Um.
So now I I love them. I loved high school.
So let's take a quick break to talk about Elijah
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(25:39):
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(26:00):
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(26:22):
Elijah Craig, Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey, Bardstown, Kentucky. Alcohol by volume.
Elijah Craig reminds you to think wisely, drink wisely. How
did you make it to SMU? What was the process?
How did you choose to go to me? I mean,
obviously huge, huge pedigree. A lot of people look at Texas,

(26:47):
a lot of people look at Georgia, a lot of
people look at Bama O s U. But I mean
the amount of us M champions to come out of SMU,
the amount of tour players they've produced. How did you
end up there, and what was the process? It had
very It had a very Harry process to it. UM.

(27:08):
You know, but your senior year and everybody's sending the
emails and notes and letters like you make they all
made as they recruit you. They make you think like
you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. And I loved
every minute of that, all the attention, all this um.
And so we at some point we had to whittle
it down right, and I was playing good golf, and everybody,

(27:28):
you know, Harry did Harry that. I'm I still listening. Honestly,
I still was really no good. And I can say
that now because I know what good is. UM. I
I whittled it down to UM S, m U Auburn
or Washington, State of Washington, and I visited Washington and

(27:48):
I loved it. I mean it was I knew it
was gonna kind of be like a little chilly. I
wanted to go somewhere warm, and then the only other one,
and I was more the initiator of it. I'm the
only place I ever wanted to go was University of Texas.
I loved Austin. We had spent some time with family
friends down there, right before our high school season was
in the spring, so you know, kind of late February.

(28:11):
I need to go, like play and get a club
in my hand somewhere warm because it wasn't warm enough
in Kansas City to do that. So we would go
down to Austin, say with some family friends, play a
bunch of courses around there, and I just loved it.
I thought it would be a great place to go
to school. And I was hounding those guys like yeah,
please please, I'd love to come, love to come. I
went and did I don't remember something something junior at

(28:32):
UT club and I had a good I had a
good week there, Like I tried to show this guy
and I'd love to come. Left and I'd love to come.
And uh so SMU that the pick was too prong.
I Washington was great, I loved the coach a little cold.
Auburn was I did. I didn't even make a visit.
I had a visit schedule. I had to call the
coaches and be like no, because I had already decided

(28:53):
on SMU. But I was still like Texas, Texas, Texas,
please like U t UT And I remember getting a
phone call said, you know, we've got we don't we
have a spot on the team. We don't have any
you know, we might have some scholarship, but we would
love to have it. And then like a week later,
I got a call and they're like, you know, no,
we well we won't have you. Basically it's there's no

(29:13):
scholarship and we don't really want you around. UM. So right,
I gotta got to know from from ut. And then
SMU had always been in the mix, always been in
the mix, always been in the mix. And I made
a visit down to SMU right before I was going
to visit Auburn. And I made a visit down SMU
and its homecoming week and I go to the boulevard

(29:35):
football and beautiful women and that is always I'm going here,
probably more so because it's close to Texas and I'm
sure we'll see them and I want to beat the
ship out of those guys now and to the women
are beautiful. So yeah, it had a very hairy process, right,
Like I visited one school, I kind of failed on
another visit all while I was trying to outgo somewhere else. Um,

(29:59):
and we did. We had we had good success, We
had a we probably had a pretty good record against
UT until that speech guy showed up and the rest
is kind of history. Um, but now I loved and
I took every pleasure. And I'm a big I think
coach Field is still there. I'm a big fan of
his m one. We've talked a little bit here and there. Right,

(30:20):
I mean it's as an eighteen year old, you gotta
you gotta have somebody, you know, somebody that you got.
I'm gonna beat those guys. I wnna beat those guys,
but I love those guys now. So yeah, it was.
It was a part vengeance, part like guy that women
are too too good looking here to to not go here.
So and it's and Highland Park is very much kind
of my scene. Um, how many years did you did

(30:44):
you play with Bryson? Two years? Two years? So I
was two years older than Bryson. He showed up. Were
my freshman year at s MU, we had Kelly Craft
who won the m right before or right after my
freshman year. Um, and then uh coaching change to Josh Gregory.
By sophomore year. We had some we called it, we

(31:04):
called everybody. Everybody called one another kind of the layovers,
right they were. Josh was waiting to get his guys,
his recruits there, Bryson being one of them. Um, Boston
smitherm in another California kid, my teammate here this week
at Zurich. Um. Yeah, so we had a we had
a year of kind of throwaways, but we were man
that team that year, my my sophomore years, Josh's first

(31:27):
year before. We were waiting on the big recruits to
come up. We were so good. We missed we missed
Regionals by maybe a shotter or missed NCAS by maybe
a shot or to finished sixth at regionals. But we
were just a scrappy bunch and it was kind of
that like, we are probably better than we're giving ourselves
credit for, but screw it. All we have to do

(31:47):
is just keep getting better all year long and we'll
beat people at the end of the year. And we did.
We would We would have been a scary team if
we had gotten in there and made it into match play,
because no one, no one gave a ship who any
of these guys were. We were just we were just
focused on getting ourselves better and trying to beat everybody. Um.
But yeah, no. Then then Bryson and Austin and Ryan
burgess Um some of the and David Lee was like

(32:09):
number one in Texas. He showed up. Then everybody was.
I remember vividly being at the first tournament of the
year and watching kind of hitting some balls, warming up,
and then I was you know you you know, you split,
you split like two spots with five guys. So then
I'm wanting, you know, watching hit I hit side, my
step back. Let a team out of mind hits up.
And I could see like all the other coaches kind

(32:32):
of looking around at Bryson and looking around at Austin
some of these guys hitting balls, and it's like, oh, yeah,
now we're now we're really really good. We got some
real talent um. So yeah, I mean, we we enjoyed that.
That was that was a lot of fun, but we
still always kept that that chip on our shoulder, like
you know, we're gonna as everybody does, and you know,
we're we're kind of the forgotten guys were I mean,

(32:53):
and Bryson kind of was. He was somebody everybody wanted,
but he obviously does things in Bryson's way, which is
very different, and everybody was kind of like trying to
poke holes and the stuff that he was doing, and
we were just like, man, this kid is so good.
You keep doing your crazy ship Bryson, and we'll just
basically for me, it was like, you keep doing your

(33:13):
weird ship and shooting good scores, and all I'm gonna
do is try to beat you, because if I beat you,
I'm gonna do well. How weird was Bryson then? And
is he weirder and stranger now? I think Bryson has
stayed the same level of weird um. And I say
that with all due respect, right, like the caveat is,

(33:33):
every professional golfer is a weird and probably way weirder
than you think if you spend you know, an hour
or two with him, Like, wow, that guy is really weird,
myself included. But like I didn't understand any of the
stuff that he was doing, the single length buyer and
all this stuff. I was like, And I mean, he
spent so much time on his equipment and the golf ball, right,

(33:55):
he would do the soaked the golf ball and EPs
and salts and find like the center and and I
remember like him would he would bitch at the tailor
made guys that like, you know, nine of the dozen
you sent me your off you know, off center. They're
lop sided in one way or another, and they're like
tailor mad guys are like, oh yeah, I mean I

(34:15):
guess it kind of right. I mean, no one's ever
and it's you know, it's by like fractions of a millimeter, right,
like it really probably wouldn't matter, but he wasn't wrong,
and they, you know, sent him more and he would
test them and use the ones that were like all
that to me was wild and just grab your seven
iron man and hit a golf shot, like it's just
not can't be you don't need to go through all this.

(34:36):
But the results spoke for themselves, dude, And you know,
part of the reason why he is who he is
and he has had hit the success that he's had,
he didn't give a ship and he knows he's weird
and he just gonna make his weird stuff work. Like
so it was it was twofold, right, I mean, wow,
you're really weird, what are you doing? And then for
him it was I believe in it and I'm gonna

(34:58):
make it work. I remember we got him to use
a normal length lobwedge because I'm kind of in on
the single length irons, Like, now, now it makes sense. Yeah,
my seven iron looks better than my flock, um, but
it doesn't make to me. It doesn't make any sense
with the wedges. And Bryson, to his credit, just makes
it work. Uh what we did get him for like

(35:18):
a month to use a normal length lobwedge and then
again again to his credit, he was like, no, I'm
gonna go back to the you know, kind of six
seven iron length lobledge and I'm just gonna make it work.
And the kids spent a month chipping just trying to
figure out ways to make it work, just all by
himself and figuring it out. And that's what makes him great, right,
I mean, he believes in his weirdness, and it is weird.

(35:41):
Are there any great Harry Higgs and Bryson d Shamba
walk into a bar? Stories? No, No, now there aren't. Um.
Ryson was always around and he was I don't think
I could be wrong. I don't think Bryson had ever
had a sip of alcohol until he turned twenty one. Um,
so obviously he and I would would differ a lot.

(36:03):
Bryson are Our spot down in Dallas, right across street
from campus was bandidos. And it was not that I'm
gonna throw them under the bus, but it was a
place where maybe if you weren't twenty one, you know,
you could have a couple of beers. So that was
the spot we would always go hang out and Bryce
would always be there. Um, Bryson would legitimately order chocolate
milk when I'm ordering, you know, frozen Margarita's, Bryson's order

(36:26):
and chocolate milk. Um. But that, I mean, that's just him,
and I like, I love him for that reason. He
just don't He didn't care what anybody thought or what
anybody said about him, Like it's what he wanted to drink,
he would just drink it. Um. So no, we Bryson
and I didn't. If if I went, and I really
my freshman year, I will say I spent plenty of
time in every bar in Dallas. And then after that,

(36:49):
I was like, yeah, this isn't really sustainable. I don't
I'd like to be good at this golf thing. And
I became much more of a home buddy, Like, you know,
I have a couple of drinks to just do it
at home. I don't care to go out and do
this whole thing where we're out till three am, and
it was it got to be too much. I enjoyed
it my freshman year, for sure, but if if we
ever went out to a bar or you know, tied

(37:10):
one on ryceon Rison was never around. You mentioned that.
You know, I think a lot of people look at
where you are right now and your tour career, and
they think, Okay, you're kind of an overnight success. But
one of the amazing things that that I don't think
the fans realize is how you get from point A
to point B to point c um. I obviously everybody

(37:33):
thinks I have the answers. They come to me for lessons,
they come to me they want to play, And I
always say, listen, you've got to find status somewhere. You've
got to go get full status somewhere. You know, go
to Latin America and you get the guys. I'm sure
you've seen them. Yeah, man, bro I went down to
Latin America. The ranges are bad, you know, the balls
are bad. You can't get good down there. You win

(37:54):
down there. What did playing on that tour teach you?
Because I think you either embrace that and you go
and you do it. You don't use it as an excuse,
and you don't bitch and complain that they don't have
pro v ones and the range isn't you know, perfect,
or because I'm sure a lot of the ranges, would
you agree that a lot of the ranges you played

(38:15):
in college were a hell of a lot better than
what you're gonna see in Latin America? Oh yeah, I
mean all the ranges. If you take all the ranges
on the whole in college versus the PGA Tour, the
ranges are better in college. I mean, no disrespected. Some
of the places we know the golf courses are better
in college than than the PGA Tour maybe on the whole,

(38:36):
excluding majors and and some of the ones that we
all love. Um yeah, man, you gotta you gotta embrace
it in anybody that says like I can't get better
down there because of the conditions or you know, the ranges.
I mean, I there were of the seventeen events that
I played in twenty I think it was eighteen was

(38:57):
the year my last year in Latin America that I
I want the money list. I think of the seventeen events,
about ten of them I on the driving range, it
would be sand or uneven or dirt. I just teat
up every shot I hit, so like, I mean, you
can find a way to do it. It's not. You
can get better down there. And then a lot of
the ranges, the golf balls you want to go golf ball,

(39:19):
sure you. I mean, I just wouldn't even hit my
driver free went because it was they'd be so bad,
so firm, that I'd be worried about, like I've never
cracked the driver because I hit it hard, But the
golf ball so ship that I'm gonna take two swings
within it, might you know, crack my driver face and
then I'm screwed, right, Like you can't. You can get
better at golf down there, for sure. But the one

(39:40):
thing that you can get really really good at is
the ins and outs about how to prepare and get
ready when every day you wake up something will go wrong,
so you just start expecting it and and in a way,
the expecting of it also helps you just embrace it.
There's you're gonna you're gonna miss a flight, or you're

(40:01):
gonna you know, your clubs aren't gonna get there, and
it's international travel, so they're gonna get there two days later,
Like all right, man, hey, you gotta go out there
and try to find a way to prepare for the
golf tournament. Your clubs will get here on Thursday and
you can go. I had that happen in Argentina, and
it's just like you just you kind of just don't.
The guys that have success there go down there and

(40:21):
we you might betch and moan for a week or two,
but then after that you just stopped because you realize,
all right, well, everybody else is gonna bitch and moans.
So if I just stopped doing and I'll have success
down there because everybody else is gonna play their way
off this tour and out of it. I'm gonna go
to PGA Tour Canada, which is a great option. But
I I played probably three events up there, and maybe
fifteen or sixteen in the summer, and it wasn't my speed. Man.

(40:44):
It was too everything was too nice. It was like, no,
I want to go somewhere, no offense, but I want
to go somewhere shittier. I want to go somewhere where
guys are gonna gripe and moan and oh my god,
we gotta stay here. We gotta do this, Like, yeah,
I'll go. I'll go sit in an uber with my
clubs laid across my you know, the front of me
in the back seat of some little tiny car in

(41:05):
Argentina to drive in two hours out of the way
to the golf course. That's fine, that's that's good by me.
Like I'll show up, I'll find a way to get
ready and I will beat all of you guys. Um,
you know, And that was my mindset pretty much that
whole year. And I of the seventeen events, I think
I still missed seven cuts. So you know, I had
ten events counting for money and still wind up winning

(41:27):
the money list. Like I just didn't if I didn't
play good and I missed a cut, I I just
didn't sweat it. It was just like, you know what,
I'm I've got status here, I can I know I
can play next week. I'm just gonna roll with it
and we're gonna go. Um. So yeah you can. Yes,
you might be hampered on where they don't have a
chipping green here this week, or the range is all same,

(41:48):
but you can find a way to to get better.
But most importantly, you can learn how to prepare and
deal with adversity like just sun up to sundown adversity.
I mean, there were a lot of times we wouldn't
know where to go to eat, and you would just
I would pack an extra bag full of snacks and
I'd be eaten like r X bars and Lar bars

(42:08):
for dinner, just because it was late and I didn't
know where to go. And you know, I was just
I'll snack on this and drink some water and get
some sleep. And that just wound up being a great
thing for me, just dealing with ship. And at times
I wish that was what it was like out here.
It's not. It's the exact opposite. Everything is catered specifically
for us. We get a free car every week, clean

(42:30):
and two meals a day, I mean dry, dry, clean everything,
and it's just too nice, you know, it's it's too nice,
and then you wind up complaining about the littlest things
and it can set off your whole week. Whereas you know,
five years ago, I was dealing with ship that most
people don't ever have to deal with, and I didn't care. Um,
so I I tried to do my best to you know,
think back and reflect on my time there and then

(42:52):
use that to kind of fuel me here. Um but man,
it made me ready, it it really did. I got
out on the corn Ferry Tour and that was like
the eatest thing ever. And that it was. It was easy, right, Like,
I mean, ship, They're gonna give me probi ones every
week to practice, and you know, I'm in and now
I can pick my own tailor made golf ball and
hit balls with like when or I'm you know, every

(43:15):
now and again you go over to the range on
the PGA Tour and they don't have any tailor made
balls picked up or you know, package to us yet,
and the guys like, well you can, Well we'll happen
to you in a couple of miss guys. I don't
give a ship, I'll hit any one of these. I'm
just gonna go get better. I don't care if it's
a stricks on or this or that. It doesn't matter
to me. Um. So yeah, I mean you can. You

(43:35):
can get better down there. I can. I appreciate the
grip and the wining and the bitching and moaning because
it's not easy, but you can go learn how to
be a professional golfer down there. So what would you
say is the difference between a tour like PGA Latin
America and then you make the jump and you get
on the Corn Ferry Tour. You have a lot of

(43:57):
success there, But what would you see from a game standpoint?
Because again, everybody, I get so many people that listen
to the podcasts that that are trying to come see me.
They're all trying to get to where you are today.
And you've gone from junior golf to a Division one
college program where you've you've you had a guy that

(44:19):
won the u s AM, uh Kelly one the us AM.
Then Bryson wins the us AM. Bryson's now one a major.
But you're trying to get from the corner you go
from Latin America to Corn For game wise, what is
the difference between a satellite tour like Latin American Canada
and then the Corn Ferry. I don't so from the

(44:46):
from the guys that like have success on those tours,
game wise, I don't see a ton of difference. Now,
you know, top guys in Latin America versus top guys
on the PGA Tour, the guy the guys on the
PGA or are Yeah, maybe not a ton more skilled,
but more skilled, but also just just way more consistent, right,

(45:06):
they just the consistency of everything, like game wise, I
didn't see a big difference. It just felt like in
Latin America, I had to be thirty guys, Like thirty
guys were like really good and competing to get off
this tour. I'd say the corn Ferry Tour, there was
probably sixty seventy guys that were like really good and
competing to get off this tour. And then now on

(45:27):
the PGA Tour. I mean, if you're here playing a
PGA Tour man, there's you know, every week it's hunting
for whatever the field size is. Every one of those
guys is capable of winning that golf tournament. Um. Yeah,
But in terms of like skills required, I don't I
don't see much different. Uh you know, I mean there

(45:48):
are guys that just do it consistently better throughout a
year versus you know, it's very rare that, you know,
a guy on the PGA Tour is going to have
success year in and year out with like three to
four to five you know, really hot, great weeks where
they exceed their you know, statistical projection, all this stuff

(46:08):
like guys are just really good all year long, um
and even when they're bad, they're still really good. Right.
They have figured out ways too, as you know, the
cliche of it, all of it gain like make your
bad golf still be good, make your bad golf be
around par, be under par. Um. So yeah, game wise,
skill wise not a ton um, just the consistency of it,

(46:33):
the the ability to to make your your really bad
golf be still good. And throughout a four day tournament,
I mean sending two holds a lot of golf holls.
So you know, you have eighteen twenty seven, maybe thirty
six of them will be shitty, but then you have
thirty six that are good, and you're kind of on go.
You're those guys you know you give I'm sure you

(46:54):
give dust the Johnathan thirty six holes where he's on go.
The man is gonna probably have a pot to win
or you know, gonna win by four. Like it's just
always you're not gonna play seventy two hol is a
perfect golf um never. And then one of the biggest
differences that I saw it was maybe not skill or
game wise, but just the shots progressively just got more

(47:16):
intimidating and more more consequential. Um, so you just find
a way to you know, the PGA Tour, you can
hit it to on every hole and be just five.
Sometimes it's hard to hit it um. You know, the
corn Ferry Tour. Some of the courses are just usually easier. Right,
so if you hit it to seventy two times, you're

(47:37):
you're gonna do fine, but you're probably gonna get boat
raced because somebody's gonna get hot that week and hit it,
hit it close, make a bunch of PUDs. Like that's
just not as much consequence around, you know, into the
greens or off the tea. UM. Latin America was was
a weird one because a lot of the golf courses
were hard, but they were just hard because either the
conditions weren't definitely not up to PGA Tour level, and

(48:00):
then like they you know, might all be designed in
a weird way. That's just inside of the mountain. Yeah,
oh plenty of the side of a volcano. And Guatemala
were you know, Keytoe, Ecuador is a ten thousand feet
but it's the grainiest kakooa ever. So you do you
didn't want to break your wrist by digging into it
so you hit it thin and then the thin one
at ten thousand feet doesn't go as far as you're

(48:22):
thinking it will. And I mean, just just like the
oddities made it hard in Latin America. But no, man,
I don't I don't see a ton game wise that
it really is that much different. I've played with guys
that are still playing the PGA Tour Latin America or
you know, are still playing the Corn Ferry Tour the
years I was there, And when I played with him,

(48:44):
I was like, man, this guy, you get him out,
You get him a year or two out on the
PGA Tour if he can earn his way there, like
he's gonna be a top fIF he player in the world,
Like this ship is impressive. And those guys just don't.
They're probably still gonna stay on PGA Tour Latin America
or a Corn Ferry And so I think the biggest
difference is, you know, the kind of the belief in yourself.
And also I think it's a good thing that I

(49:07):
don't see a ton of difference game wise, Like I didn't.
I feel like I got to the PGA Tour and
I had to be like, oh, my god, I got
I have to do with this this what this guy does,
Like we all do things well, and a lot of
guys do things like not that well. I mean it's you.
I have been unimpressed by a lot of people on

(49:27):
the PGA tour that I thought I would be impressed
with in terms of their game. Like, now, what's impressive
about what a lot of those guys do is you're
playing with them and you're keeping their score and you're
they're hitting all over the lot and you're like, nothing
sounds good, nothing looks good, and then you sign this
card at the end of the shop for under Part.
Like that's the impressive things about the guys out here, right,

(49:50):
that's the difference when it's not perfect, when it's not
going well, they still find a way to shoot under
Part firsts. A lot of guys in Latin America corn
Ferry like they're just waiting for that perfection to come,
and when that perfect comes, they shoot. But when that
perfect isn't, they're they're shooting two, three over and just
getting laughed. Um so yeah, no, I mean game wise,

(50:12):
I hadn't seen a whole lot of difference skill game
and skill wise. Now consistency wise, and just like there's
a lot of there's a lot of part of my friends,
but there's a lot of motherfucker's on the PGA tour
that like, Yeah, they're just there to beat you, man,
Like they don't really they don't care how they do it.
I mean, they're gonna give them twenty five starts throughout
a year. They're gonna just find ways to beat you. Um.

(50:35):
And I like to think of myself as kind of
one of those guys that you just I don't care
what it looks like, how bad it is, how bad
it looks, how bad it sounds, and I'm just here
to beat you. That's it. I remember Tiger Tiger told
out of Scott like in the early two thousands, because
Scotty was working with my dad. They played a lot
of practice rounds together, and he said, you've got to
learn how to do two things. One you're gonna learn

(50:58):
how to hang around more. And he that you know,
because you there was a time when Scotty was playing
in Europe and he was lightening it up Thursday Friday,
you know, sixty six, sixty seven, He's in one of
the last two groups and he blows it out and
even or one over, and then on Sunday he's got
to try and fire it every pin and shoot zero
and and he said too. And he said to Scotty,

(51:19):
you've gotta find a way to hang around more. And
he said, and you've always got to remember the weeks
that you play four good rounds, you're probably going to
have a chance to win, or you're going to win,
But most weeks you're gonna probably play good. If you
make the cut and you have a chance to win,
you're gonna play good three of the four days. And
you've got to find a day where you don't have

(51:41):
it to find a way to make that not be
over par and maybe shoot one under, which kind of
keeps you in the mix. I think so many players, Harry,
that are trying to get to where you are today.
I think that they're going to do it through technique talent.

(52:02):
But I think what you're saying is there's a massive
difference between technique and execution. And like you said, the
guys on the PGA Tour, they know, the guys that
make it get to the playoffs every year, that keep
their card, they know how to execute. How do you
feel like if like you if you were going to

(52:23):
give a bunch of kids in college right now, or
a bunch of kids that aren't on a tour somewhere,
and he said, listen, man, I've been where you are.
I've gone through all these steps to get here. I
could give you one piece of advice on the execution
side of things. What would it be? Yeah, I thought
I heard rom I can't remember. It was pretty recent,

(52:49):
maybe a couple of months ago, and he was doing
a pre tournament or after round press conference. He's just like, yeah,
I mean, I just I just don't hit shots. I'm
not comfortable with I just I just don't do it now.
Out in that John Ram is probably a lot more
comfortable than than a lot of us at hitting you know,
some of the more consequential golf shots. But he just

(53:09):
you just don't do it. And and that's kind of it, man,
Like you doesn't have to be perfect. If you're standing
in the fairway and you have a hundred and sixty
yards and it's into the wind and it's a front
flag and a bunker short is terrible, Like, don't take
the nine iron and try to like with the chance

(53:29):
that if it puffs up into the wind or or
you don't catch it, just flush. It's gonna come up
in that bunker and you're gonna make a bogie. Just
hit the eight iron and just hit an eight ard
like hit as many and because you're still gonna have
in a seventy and you're still gonna have plenty, if
not half, be like uncomfortable numbers, uncomfortable shots like, don't

(53:52):
just you don't have to be perfect on those shots.
Just move the ball where it's supposed to go, or
where you think it's supposed to go, Like if the
front bunker is dead, don't hit it in the front bunker.
Just hit it long, like do not do not hit
it off shot that ever has a chance to come
up in the front bunker or the right bunker, whatever

(54:14):
it may be, right Like, I see that too often.
I did it in college, I did it my first
few years as a pro, and it looks like, wait
a second. I mean, skill wise, I am better than,
if not way better than everybody that I've played with.
Yet they're running circles around me, and you just kind
of like clewe into what's going on, and you you

(54:38):
be more open to basically not being perfect. I think
the guys that do not make it to the PGA
Tour and they might be super skilled and like, wow,
this kid will look out for this kid like he's
gonna be great, and maybe they never get here, or
that you know somebody that's almost been there, almost been there.
I would say that those guys are more likely. The
guys on tour are more likely to be more open

(55:02):
to solving things throughout a day when you do not
have your best. Then those that do not get to
this level, they and I don't want to say like
quid or mail it in, but they just like they're
still hung up on I need to hit this shot
this way, be be perfect in this way. It needs
to draw into this left flag and I can get

(55:23):
it close like no man if I I mean, and
I did. I just I made a rule to myself
that I just will not hit a shot without successful imagery.
And that was pretty much it. Like whether the success
is hitting it to a foot or the success is
this flag is on the left side of the green
with water left, and a successful golf shot for me

(55:45):
in this scenario is anything that doesn't go in the water.
I'm going to take a club, hit a shot you know,
have a rehearsal and and make a golf swing that
will never ever let this ball go into the water
left right, like that's it. And that's if I stand
there and do that. And then the other hundred thirty
five hundred forty three guys whatever it is, stand on

(56:06):
that tea and half of them are like, I need
to be perfect. I need to be perfect, And forty
of them hidden in that water, I have gained, you know,
eight tenths of a shot or a shot on all
those guys. Boom, I'm done. I'm ahead of them already.
And then the same thing on the next one. Eight
are eight and nine? Ire do I need to be perfect?
And there are times where yeah, ship, I feel good,
I'm gonna be perfect on this shot. And that was fun.

(56:28):
And I hit the shot and I would almost more
than likely, you know, pull it off. But even if
I didn't have the result that I wanted, and you know,
I got something wrong or the wind gusted up and
it came up into that short bunker, it was like,
you know what, I hit the shot I wanted to
hit him, gonna go up there and kind of solved
for this. Now I'm gonna and maybe the best I
can do is make bogie. I'm just gonna make bogie.
I'm not gonna make double. I'm not gonna keep messing up.

(56:51):
And I just found over four days, you know, seventeen
twenty five events, like if I do that over and
over and over, that sh it's starts to add up.
Well it does. It's like and now you know it
adds up in in in money and FedEx cup points
and all this jazz. Like, yeah, there are still times
where I'm not great at it. And as I'm saying,

(57:12):
this is therapeutic for me more so because I've been
great at it. Really, I've been great at it maybe
a couple of weeks in the last six months. And
one of those was the Masters, and it was just like,
I know, I'm not gonna be perfect around here. I
don't love some of these shots, but I'm just gonna
solve for it. And right like and I had that

(57:34):
was the best finished I've had since like October of
last year. Um, and people, ah, you know, wow, how
did you do that? There? And I was like, well,
I got back to just like being myself man like ship,
I don't love this shot, Okay, Well you can hit
it over there and that left bunker and you got
a chance. All right, I'm gonna hit it over then
that left bunker, and then I got it up and

(57:55):
down and and we always say like I want to
build around, right, I've start on the first hole. I
want to build around. I want to in building that round.
You know, pick it off here and there when you
get comfortable when you love the shot, and also spiral upwards, right,
I mean, keep keep spiraling upwards and spiraling upwards. Could
also it doesn't mean being perfect and continue to hit

(58:17):
perfect shots. It means when the fourth hold there's water
left Harbor Town. Last week, the fourth hold there's water left, Like, yeah,
you hit in that water, you're gonna make five. So
don't hit into the water. Go get it up and
down for three and then like you you just that
was successful. You were successful there. So man, at fifty
you're like, all right, I'm who boy, I'm spiraling upwards

(58:38):
and spiraling upwards. Um, yeah, it's the advice would be,
I mean, all the all the cliches would work, but
like you just don't have to be perfect in a
fifty seventy two whole event. Like yeah, I mean Tiger.
Obviously Tiger's Tiger, but he's spot on. You just need
to be there, You just need to hang around, You
don't need to. Yeah, Tiger hit a lot of really

(58:58):
really great shots, but I bet if you go back
and watch any tournament from start to finish, there's clearly
times where he's like playing away from trouble or playing away. Now,
his playing away, his his kind of his gaps were tight, right.
His playing away is you know, maybe twenty ft right
of the left flag with water left, but he just,

(59:21):
you know, whatever he would do, he just wasn't gonna
hit in that water. And there would be guys that
get up there after him or before him and do it.
And he was already ahead of those guys, right, I mean,
it's it's not rocket science. And and you do not
if you're not comfortable with the shot, find a way
just don't hit it. Don't if you don't if you
know you're not gonna catch your five iron good enough,
and you know you got to catch it all to

(59:42):
get it there. Hit the fore iron like you're gonna
be athletic and figure out a way to hit the
fore iron where the five iron is gonna go anyway,
just get comfortable and be a damn athlete. It's not
that hard. I'm saying this is it's like therapy to
myself as well. The other thing, I remember Tiger saying
that Scotty and you know, Scotty had won one tournament

(01:00:02):
and he was trying to win and and he said,
you know, you haven't really want a big tournament yet.
And he said, I know your mindset is you think
that you need to go out on Sunday and shoot
sixty four sixty five kind of all guns blazing, and
and it was so cool. Is this is like two
thousand and one and East and he and I'll never
forget this. And it was the look in Tiger's face
when he said this to Adam. He said, you know,

(01:00:24):
I gotta be honest with you. The really fun ones
for me now, or was when I go out on
Sunday with the lead and I shoot one or two under,
and he looked right at Scotty, he said, and I
let everybody else fuck it up. Yeah, he said, I'm
just gonna go shoot two under. I'm gonna take care
of the par fives. Might make a bogey here, but
I'm not gonna do anything crazy, and he said he
and he was. He was aware that at that stage

(01:00:45):
of his career, everybody trying to beat him was going
to try and beat him. Right, they were gonna fire
and every pin they had to get on here perfect
all of that. If Tiger had somebody and no one
ever has the same mental capacity that I think that
man has. But if he had somebody playing with him,
they're like, oh wait, if I'm within one or two

(01:01:07):
of you, yeah, I mean, if you look at it
like tigers never really like I mean, he ran away
with plenty, but he had run away with plenty on
like Friday afternoon. He didn't run away with him on Sunday.
He would just be so far ahead of everybody, Like
Friday afternoon or midday Saturday, no one had a chance
Sunday a lot of Tigers wins were tight, and he did.
He was just I'm just gonna put my golf ball

(01:01:28):
where I know it's nice and safe, and everybody else
you can try and get it these flags that I
know you can't. And that's that it's not rocket science.
I mean, obviously, listen to you talk. You have a
tremendous amount of confidence. You you have this really large, big,
authentic personality. Um. I mentioned that August you played a

(01:01:48):
couple of practice rounds with DJ and your coach, UM,
Corey Lindberg, one of my favorite people. I love the kid.
He's just he's I'm so proud of him. He's doing
such a great job. But he said to me, I
think Perry playing with DJ and seeing DJ's attitude not
only just in general but in a practice round to

(01:02:08):
hitting a bad shot, he's important because he said, You've
been an absolute nightmare on the golf course. He said,
for like the last almost half a year playing with DJ,
show you anything or make you kind of go huh uh. Yeah.
I was gonna work this in at some point. Um,

(01:02:30):
I didn't know that you guys, I mean I didn't
know you guys can coaches talk. Yeah, I know, coaches talk. Um,
I mean we play. I played with him Saturday or sorry, Sunday,
Sunday and Mondays with DJ and a J Sunday, which
was a treat um, and then uh and then Monday
for nine holes with Harolds. So I mean that's also

(01:02:52):
just the greatest threesome that's ever been assembled. And yeah, man,
DJ is unbothered by damn near everything. Like it looks
like he he goes into a shot with like the
thought of you know, success, success, success, and then when
he doesn't pull it off, which like, look, I mean,
he's one of the best players in the world. He's,

(01:03:15):
in my opinion, one of the best that's done it
in the last twenty years. Whatever it may be, he is.
He he doesn't even react. And we went he can
hit the golf ball and practice rounds like everybody can't.
He can hit it a long way offline, yeah, and
like we all can. And I get unboyed. I get
I've been getting too bothered by it and wanting to

(01:03:36):
solve it right then and there. And like we we
we went back to the house, we were all staying
together Monday night, and we kind of started to unearth,
like can we and we we missed you. We missed
you guys just barely Tuesday and then rain and all
this ship. But I'm just like, I'm playing as many
practice rounds with Dustin Johnson as I possibly can. And

(01:03:57):
that was music to Corey's ears, um, because like he
just he's unbothered. Man. He hits, he hits, he mean
DJ no offense. He hit some of the worst shots
that I've ever seen a PGA Tour player hit all,
you know, even Sunday and Monday, and he was unbothered.
He was he was gonna work on it when I
was appropriate to work on it, and he was just
going to continue to envision success before he hit a

(01:04:20):
shot and do his best to do that. And if
he didn't, he either in my mind, would make up
like a little excuse as to what happened, kind of
very softly to himself to keep that confidence high. And
then that was it. He just kept walking and kept walking,
and we we coined it as like it wasn't it
that he wasn't reacting. He was just literally like underreacting

(01:04:41):
to anything that happened anything. Yeah, I mean, and I
know a lot of people are like, you know DJ this,
DJ that, Like, No, I mean, the man is a
savant at what he does, Like it is so wildly impressive. Yes,
he has been given and honed and worked like the

(01:05:02):
probably the top three five like greatest physical attributes and
skills that anybody has ever had in this game. But
he has also honed like the world and I've heard
Rory talk about this and like the greatest way to
approach high level competitive golf. Dustin Johnson owns that, like

(01:05:23):
he absolutely owns that he underreacts to everything he thinks.
He you know, he always thinks it's going to be successful.
Even after like the most horrific shot that he you know,
you've ever seen a pro yet he just either grabs
another one and tries something else, or he just walks
to the ball like he and that's it. He's unbothered
by all the people around everything, like he could care less.

(01:05:44):
So we our goal the whole week at the Master's
was like I'm I'm usually a very optimistic person, so
that's a that's a great trade to have a fucking
high level, you know, competitive golf. So we were gonna
be optimistic, we were gonna be patient, which is you know,
very required, and we were we were gonna underreact like DJ.

(01:06:06):
So we had set our mind to that We're going
through the pins, you know, Thursday morning, as you know,
we get to golf course earlier, going through the pins
kind of game plan for the day. And then my brother,
you know that I didn't have a pincheat in front
of me, but I'm going through it. You know, when
this this maybe this club. And we get to the
first hole and I some way, somehow strike it right

(01:06:28):
down the middle of the hole. And I pulled my
pin sheet out to like look at the pin and
see kind of what and all along the outer edges
of the pin sheet is just written by Corey, you know,
be like DJ, and I think he even had one,
like DJ Higgs and like optimism patients be like DJ.
Underreact like DJ and I really that Thursday, I would

(01:06:51):
say I did it. I did a great job of it.
Thursday Friday becomes a little bit more stressful. Um, you know,
I was in tenth, but you know, you get I
didn't get off to a great start. It was hard.
It was hard to underreact to what was going on.
It was a hard day on the golf course. It
was windy. You know, you didn't have that many looks
for Bertie. Saturday was Saturday's usually a little easier. Everybody

(01:07:13):
kind of breathe and try to get themselves into contention,
either staying contention, you know, grab the lead, or work
your way back into contention. Saturday was a little easier,
and then Sunday was a bit up and down. I
had some some overreactions and some some good underreacting as well,
and like yeah, that that that underreacting underreacting paired with

(01:07:36):
that optimism that it's like, yeah, man, I'm just I'll
figure it out. I'm gonna and weird crazy, whole weird
shots right hold long putts, Like there's gonna be some
magic that happens out there that's gonna obviously help my
score in my position and just my overall well being.
But if I just don't overreact to things that don't
go my way or shots that I don't pull off,

(01:07:57):
I will be able to, you know, I'll be able
to quite frankly, just shoot better scores. Um I really did.
I would have probably given myself like a B plus
that week of of being like dj UM. And then honestly,
last week, for Thursday it was good, I didn't get
off to a great start and I played well, and
then Friday, I would it was probably, honestly last week

(01:08:20):
probably the worst I've ever been in terms of overreacting
that just things that happened. I got a I had
a couple of really good shots that didn't end up
in good spots, and which is gonna happen? I mean
it just happens, and I overreacted and compounded some errors
and then I'm you know, playing the back nine, having
to make a birdie or two and a lot of
win to to get inside the cut line. And you know,

(01:08:42):
it's I'm six back of the lead, I'm outside the
cut line, and I'm piste off and pissing and moaning
at my brother and all this like I did a
horrible job and that was probably a good thing. Um.
You know, a team event this week will make it
a little easier to kind of just be back to
your mellow self. But like, no, that's gonna be something
that we continually talk of and think on, like find

(01:09:03):
ways to underreact fine ways too, because I'm my best
performing self. Is is is a you know, just a
happier version of me. Not happy because I'm performing well,
but it's just I'm kind of yeah, I spend some time,
take the moment, and I smile some maybe interact with
fans here and there, laugh at bad shots that I hit,
you know, kind of oh, you know, do that that

(01:09:24):
deal when I have the good ones. Um, that will
be something that we take with us forever. And you know,
I enjoy your company. I enjoy DJs company. I enjoy
A J's company. I would love to be part of
as many future practice rounds as possible, just to pick
just to just to see how he does it. I mean,
he hit I think it was Monday. We played the
back nine. He hit one of the worst tea shots

(01:09:45):
I've ever seen a professional golfer hit on the seventeen
toll like low and left seeking people's heads into a
bush and like he just kind of said, like I
towed it, like that was it? Like it was, yes,
the toe probably had something to do with it, but
you also just like didn't make a good swing, and
he was so unbothered by it. It was. It was

(01:10:08):
truly eye opening. So that's kind of you know, if
I get better at that, then I can see myself
and then also continue to hone my skills as as
well as DJ has. But you know, kind of that
little mental approach, the the ability to be easy on yourself,
not beat yourself up, and all that, all those little
things that no one wants to think of or work

(01:10:29):
on or put into practice. Um, if I can do
those and continue to continue to have b p B
plus weeks and not like the f week that I
had last week. Um, you know I can, I can
have the success that DJ has had. Um, it was
it was eye opening. I can't even really put to
words like how how how much that meant to us

(01:10:52):
to play with him and experience that right, like just
and I know that's what I mean. I've watched the
guy played off before. I was on the PGA tour
of what you love to watch DJ play golf and
they show a lot of golf shots he hits on TV,
and I don't think I've ever seen him react like
every now and again, you just get like that, the
little fist bump. I mean, he doesn't even like there's

(01:11:13):
no it's just like, yeah, I was going to do.
I think you've got a chance to get in those
practice rounds. Uh last week. Your brother you've mentioned him
a number of times, just like DJ and a J.
Your brother's on the bag, Um older, younger, younger. He's younger,
three years young, three years younger. Um, how cool. I mean,

(01:11:35):
that's got to be a really unique cool I'm lucky
to see it with A J. What's it like for you?
It's awesome? Um, you know, And again the main reason
why I asked him to do it was because I
knew that he would turn himself, take it very seriously
and turn himself into a world class caddy in two

(01:11:58):
three four months and he has. You know a lot
of a lot of guys out here can can take
some of the credit, but Al has put in the work.
And you know, ask anybody and everybody for their opinion
on things, how best to communicate with your player, how
best to anything um and a lot of the caddies
out here have been you know, I met him with

(01:12:19):
open arms and more willing to share anything with him.
So he has turned himself into world class caddy. That
would be you know a one why I wanted him
to do it, and then two was because I knew
it would help me lighten up, you know, enjoy these
moments with my brother. I mean we're walking around playing

(01:12:39):
the Masters with my brother, Like I mean, in that
Saturday and Sunday we played with d J. A J's
playing right, Like you get to do that as a
past champ. Like I don't know that either one of
them could really put it into words what that's like.
I don't know that I would be able to either,
but like it's just the coolest I mean, there's nothing
cooler than that sunday we shared or the moment that

(01:13:00):
you get to share with with your brother out here
competing on the PGA tour, this whole thing, we've had
a few chances to win, like those are I mean,
those are so cool. Um, But you know the same thing.
I've fallen victim too. He's a familiar face. He's easy
to blame, he's easy to bitch at, right, like I
need to it's not his fault, Like I need to

(01:13:22):
hold myself accountable for I need to think back again.
This is therapy for me, damn near I need to
probably thank you for letting me come on. But like
I know, the reason one was I knew it would
be great at it, and I knew he would work hard.
Reason two was I knew it would help me be
my best performing self, be be that happy guy, be

(01:13:42):
the guy that's you know you're not you know, Oh wow,
I'm just so happy to be here. But like I'm here,
this is awesome. I'm gonna enjoy this and I'm gonna
beat the ship out of people like this is cool
and I'm gonna do it all in from of my brother.
That is so cool, like we're going to we're gonna
take this world by storman and I've just fallen and
I've just let my self fall into like I'm not perfect.

(01:14:02):
I don't like the way this feels or this or
this or this, and then you know, yeah, we're gonna
get some clubs wrong and some wins wrong here and there,
and I'm taking it out with my brother too much. Um,
you know, I'm I did not a good We had
a we had a nice talking to. Well, he gave
me a nice talking to midway through the round on Friday.
Uh he, I think audibly said aloud, if you keep

(01:14:24):
backing like this when we make the turn, I will
leave the bag and you will have to find somebody
else too. And like, yeah, he wasn't wrong. I mean
I was acting like an ass. And it's sometimes it's
easy to do when it's you know, when it's a
family member. You know, you know they're always gonna be there,
they're always gonna care for you. I can't I can't
have that, Like, it can't happen, it's not gonna It

(01:14:44):
doesn't serve either one of us any purpose. Um yeah,
I mean that's something that he and I both could
learn from a J and DJ man, they'd like, I'm
sure they bigger back and forth every now and again,
but like they don't let it affect kind of their
over all mental approach and their mindset. And and I've
let it. I've let it become a hindrance too often

(01:15:10):
to me. It's not it's not him, He's not a
hindrance to me, but just the familiarity and the like,
I know he's gonna love me anyway. I'm just gonna
light into him about this, right, Like, you can't do that.
It's not helping me at all. And it's not helping
you know, he and I grow as a team. It's
just not just stop doing it. Um So again, yeah,
this is this is more therapy for me than I

(01:15:33):
think anything else. But you just I can't have that.
It's I gotta get back to, you know, my best
performing self and also you know our best performing self,
the two of us together. But yeah, man, there's there's
times where we just look at each other it's like,
holy sh it, this is really cool, Like we get
to do this. And the masters was we had moments
each and every day that was like, God, this is

(01:15:55):
so awesome. Um, you know, we and we have moments anywhere.
It's like I always tell Al, probably two or three
times a year. I was like, oh, I just had
one of those moments. He's like one of the like, Wow,
I'm you know, on the PGA Tour. This is so cool.
I get to do this. The last time I told
it to him, I think it was earlier in the
year on the West Coast, maybe Riviera, and he kind

(01:16:16):
of looked at me goes, yeah, man, but you've been
You've been out here for a while now, Like I said, yeah,
I have, But I don't want to lose that like
that that luster right that that Wow, this is so cool.
I'm on the PGA Tour. I get to do this,
compete against you know, all the the whole all the things,
compete against the best players in the world. When the biggest,
baddest championships. Um, I need to be a little easier.

(01:16:40):
I need to be a little easier on myself. I'm
demanding of Al, he's demanding of me. Um, but I
need I need to let him and he and you know,
we've we've now coined it just there like hey man,
I'm you know, I know you've gotten a couple of
wind guss So you've got a couple of bad breaks here,
but like, let's let's have nine really good holes of
being like DJ. But we've that's literally been set out

(01:17:01):
loud um and that's been super helpful. I need to
be more open to those like constructive criticisms or kind
of motivation pep talks, because on the other end, it's
easy to be like, ah, you don't you know what
you're talking about. You know, you just here's my brother
and no, you're he's my brother. That is a world
class caddy that I should listen to way more often

(01:17:22):
and heed his advice because he has a very interesting
you know, he has a much different perspective. He just
he's involved, but he just also stands there and watch
watches and stands there and sometimes watches me act like
an asshole and you know, not put myself in the
best frame of mind to hit the next golf shot
or have some success um. But yes, when all that

(01:17:44):
you know, therapy and just don't you know, unloading on you.
It is so cool to have him here, and like
when we stay together and we just we sit around
at night bs and place a wager on there's a
couple of wagers on basketball games. Here tonight, there's barbecue
down I started waiting for me, Like, it's so cool.
It's cool to share that with your brother. And it's

(01:18:05):
cool also that he has put in so much time
and effort to to be world class of what he does.
And then I need to continue to be motivated and
put the effort and mindset best forward to be world
class of what I do. Man, this has been I
mean I could sit here and talk to you forever,
but thanks, thanks for doing this. I'm a huge, huge fan,

(01:18:26):
and um, I can't wait to see you winning on
the PGA Tour because I don't think it's far off.
And uh, go easy. I appreciate. Go go easier on
your brother. I will. I need to go easier on
myself and then that just makes it easier on him,
but also just easy on him in general. Is is good.
He's he works hard. I need to. I need to

(01:18:47):
do a better job of being a nicer person I do.
I do this podcast thing every week, So if you're
having a bad week or bad run, just come on
and we'll let you get all this out and that'll
be It'll be podcast unload all the like I need
to do this and this now we've got it on
tape that I need to be held more accountable. And
no slamming clubs, no pitching and moaning. We gotta be

(01:19:08):
like DJ man. We gotta underreact and be optimistic, be
like DJ. Great to talk to you, Matt. I appreciate it. Cheers, Claude,
thank you very much. I appreciate the time. So that
was Harry Higgs and like I said, huge fan, and UM,
I think he is a bright shining light on the

(01:19:29):
PGA tour and hopefully we're gonna see him get into
the Winter Circle soon because that celebration is a party
I want to be invited to. All right, let's get
to questions for the week. Had a lot of questions. Um,
but DJ's wedding. Um was lucky to go to DJ
Pauline's wedding over the weekend. Um. It was a lot

(01:19:51):
of fun. And we will leave it at that. UM
not drinking for a while after the wedding. So yeah,
it was great. UM so proud of DJ and UM,
you know, starting that next phase of his life. And UM,
it was a hell of an event as you can imagine.
Let's see a lot of questions about Um phil Um

(01:20:15):
the new Live Golf. I mean, I think we're starting
to see some players start to ask for releases to
play in the first of the Saudi tournaments, which is
in going to be in London. UM. Listen, with the
money the Saudis are offering, players are going to go
play in these tournaments. UM. I get all of the

(01:20:36):
arguments on why players shouldn't play. I understand all of that,
and I appreciate all the different angles where everybody's coming from.
But at the end of the day, in competitive professional
sports is a sport, but it is a business. And

(01:20:57):
if players are offering money and being offered money to
go play in tournaments, they're going to play. And if
you look at the eight tournaments that the Saudi's have
have come up with, if you look at the prize fund,
and if all of that pans out, and you're a
player that goes and plays and eight of these events,
I think we could see a couple of players that

(01:21:19):
aren't necessarily superstars household names make as much money on
that tour as some of the best players in the
world are making on the PGA Tour. I don't really
have a dog in the fight. I just know for
the amount of money they're offering money talks, and UM,

(01:21:40):
it's gonna be interesting to see who's gonna play. I mean,
it looks like Phil is gonna try and play. UM.
A lot of people asking about is Phil going to
come back the PJA. Evidently that's where he's gonna come back.
UM I think that. I mean, you have, I have
no idea what's gonna happen with that? Um, with Phil
coming back? So UM, I think it's gonna be a
really really interesting summer. I think we've got a lot

(01:22:03):
of really interesting storylines with not only what's happening with
just the unbelievable golf that Scotti Scheffler's playing. Um, does
he win another major? Does he win a couple of majors? Um?
Does he keep winning golf tournaments at the rate that
he's winning? Um? And then you know, going into major season,
who's going to step up in the majors? Are we

(01:22:24):
going to see the usual cast of characters or are
we going to have a new crop of players win
major championships? So? UM loving all of those questions. UM,
let's see what's the most important thing in the swing? UM,
that's a pretty broad question. But to me, um, when

(01:22:48):
I look at golf swings, uh specifically for the average
everyday golfer, non competitive elite, you know, super talented, the
single most important thing is the quality of the strike,
like how the club contacts the ball, how the club
interacts with the ground, and are you able to have

(01:23:09):
a consistent strike of the golf ball all the time.
I think so many golfers that I see are obsessed
with the direction and the curvature of the golf ball
and they're not focused on the quality of strike. If
you p I get asked all the time, what's the
biggest difference between tour players and non tour players, non

(01:23:31):
you know, just regular golfers. It's the quality of the strike.
It's the ability to control where the club hits the
ball and that interaction. I think so many golfers spend
um really their entire career and they just don't hit
the golf ball solid. So I think if you can
learn how to hit the golf ball solid with your wedges,

(01:23:52):
learn how to hit the golf ball solid with little
three quarter half swings, it's going to make a huge different.
As the golf clubs get longer, and if you're struggling
with contact, going back and forth between little short, little
half swings and going back to regular full swings. I
think the other thing that's really important in the golf
swing is I think a lot of players need to

(01:24:15):
really have a better understanding as to what makes the
golf ball go into the air. When the balls on
a te with your driver, you're trying to hit up
on the ball. When the balls on the ground and
it's on the grass, you're trying to hit down on
the ball. And I see so many players with their
drivers hitting down on the ball, with their drivers taking
a divot, hitting that skull off the top where you've

(01:24:35):
got that mark where the ball hits the top of
the face. And then a lot of golfers that that
I work with, UM, that are just everyday regular golfers
don't really take divots with their irons because they're trying
to get the golf ball into the air. So UM
fundamentally contact for me, the quality of the strike with
and also if you can hit the golf ball in

(01:24:56):
the center of the face, UM huge as well. What
are the skill sets most important for a win? UM?
At the PGA Tour level. Uh, I think you have
to to win on the PGA tour level. I think
you have to keep putting yourself in that position so
you can figure out, um, you know, how your body works,

(01:25:18):
how your brain works, um, and how you're able to
control shots. I mean a great example is the run
that Shane Lowry has been on recently. Shane had a
legit chance standing on the eighteenth hole at the Honda,
the rains come, he he doesn't Burntie the last doesn't
win that tournament. Sepstracted us. SHANEO had a great chance,
played really really well at the Masters, and then had

(01:25:40):
a legit chance standing in the middle of the eighteenth
fairway um to win at Harvard Town. So the last
the three out of the last four to five tournaments
he's played in, he's had a legit chance. One. You
keep knocking on the door, you keep putting yourself in
position on tour. That's basically all you can do each
week because sometimes it's going to be your week. Sometimes

(01:26:02):
you're gonna play great and you might not win. Sometimes
you don't really necessarily have to play that great, and
um you can get you know, opportunities to win. So
I think one of the most important things to win
on the PGA Tour is to be one of those
players that consistently put yourself on Sunday afternoons in one
of the last three or four groups to have an
opportunity to win. Um. Other than no double bogies, where

(01:26:25):
are some of the game plans for amateurs new to competition? UM? Yeah,
I mean you hear me all the time talk about
no double bogies. UM, how it ruins your scorecard if
you're trying to play in competition. I think you've got
to look at the areas of your game when you
are playing that are the weaknesses. UM. Tracking your rounds.

(01:26:47):
There's so many different club There are so many different
companies out there that allowed you to track what you're
doing on the golf course. So if you're new to competition,
there are loads of them that you can find, UM
that will actually track what you're doing on the golf course.
And then when you look at what you're doing when
you're playing, whether you're playing in competition or whether you're

(01:27:07):
just playing golf, it will give you a good idea
of the areas that you need to UM focus on.
You know, is your short game where you're losing strokes.
Is you're putting where you're losing strokes? Is your iron play,
your your your driver, your course management? Um? You know,
what is your tendency, Whether you're missing a lot of

(01:27:27):
balls to the right, whether you're missing a lot of
balls to the left. There is technology out there, UM
that allows you to track what you're doing, and I
think that is vitally, vitally different UM than just going
to the driving range and really having no idea what
you're doing. UM. Shot shape nine windows like Tiger, or

(01:27:49):
just one shape. I mean, hey, Caney, you know, was
famous for saying that Tiger, you know, had all the shots.
He had all nine shots, All different ball flights can
move it a lot of different directions. Is that important? Absolutely?
But I see more players trying to get good at everything,
and as a result, they're kind of average to mediocre
at everything. Nothing really really stands out. And I think

(01:28:13):
to be a great player, both at the average golf level,
the amateur level, or the professional level, you have to
be good at something. You can't just be average to
mediocre or pour at everything. You have to be able
to find a strength and build a strength. So and
I think it's important as a player to look at

(01:28:34):
your game and say, Okay, what elements of my game?
What are the best parts of my game? Am I
a great driver of the golf ball? Is my iron
game good? Am I a great bunker player, a great
short game, great putter, great decision maker, great playing in
the wins. Find something that you're great at and try
and ride that strength. Because I think so many players,

(01:28:56):
and then I'm a big believer for most, for the
majority of golfers, if you can have one repeatable shape,
whether it's a fade, whether it's a draw, I don't
really care which one it is. But if you can
hit one shape all the time and have that shot
on command, and have that as your bread and butter,
your go to, it's going to make scoring and playing

(01:29:19):
a hell of a lot easier than it is trying
to get good at everything. And I see so many
players trying to play at the competitive level who have
that mantra. They're trying to get good at everything. They
think they need to have all the shots, they don't
really have a go to shot, and as a result
they struggle. So um, I think for most golfers, having

(01:29:40):
one shape hitting it all the time. I think it's
hugely important and I think it's an easy way to
improve your scores. So thanks everybody for listening. Um, that
was a really fun interview with Harry. I really enjoyed it,
and I hope everybody did too. Of course, with Claude
Harman comes to you every Wednesday. We will see you
next week.

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