Jay Haas Interview: Making the cut at the Zurich Classic alongside his son Bill, his success at Augusta National and why the younger generation is succeeding so quickly on the PGA Tour

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's episode fifty three of Off Course with Claude Harmon,
comes to you every Wednesday. This week's guest Jay Hass,
the all time cuts leader on the PGA Tour five
hundred and ninety two cuts. He just made the cut
in Zurich as a sixty eight year old with his
son Bill Hass, and UM, I thought it would be
a great opportunity to get his take. Listen. I've known

(00:32):
Jay the majority of my really my life, and um,
he's like a member of the Harmon family and such
an amazing player, such an amazing record, and um, it's
a really really good listen into um one of the
old school guys on the PGA Tour. Now you know
he had a ton of success on the Champions Tour,

(00:53):
but to get his take on on making a cut
at age sixty eight really cool stuff, and just to
kind of get his take on golf, because the guy
has been one of the most consistent players the PGA
Tour has ever had. So before we get to the interview,
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golf dot com. Now let's get to the inner you
with Jay hass I guess this week is Jay hass
J You've done so many amazing things in the game
of golf. You've you've you've won on the PGA Tour,
you've won on the Champions Tour, you've won majors on

(02:17):
the Champions Tour. Out of all the things that you've
gotten to do, making the cut at Zurich with your son,
I mean, what was that experience like for you? Uh?
Hard to put into words, really I didn't think I'd
ever play another PJ Tour event. Six or seven weeks ago.
Bill asked me if I wanted to play, and I
tried to talk him out of it. I said, you

(02:38):
need a better partner than me. Don't waste a week
on me and all that. But I'm so glad I
did it. And you know, as any parent can attest,
there's just nothing like watching your kids do something well
that they love to do. And so just to be
a part of that, part of that event, part of
the team with Bill, we don't get to be partners often,
but it was a week that I'll never forget. Um

(03:00):
making the cut was icing on the cake. Just to
be out there with him, watching all those great players.
Pretty incredible. You said that, Um, it's watching him. He
had the two putt, He had a four ft or
two for you guys to make the cut, you said,
one of the most nervous experiences of your career, and
you've had a lot of those. Yeah, I didn't hit

(03:21):
a very good third shot in there as the alternate
shot on Friday, which is a tough format any time.
And now he's got a partner who hits it about
forty or fifty yards shorter than everyone else, and so
I put a lot of pressure on him in that regard.
But we got to eighteen and I didn't hit a
very good drive and the bunker. He got it out
there pretty good. And I'm trying to hit this eight
iron water to the right, wind blowing. I wanted to

(03:45):
get it in there. I was hoping for twenty ft
or less, just so he didn't have to struggle too much.
And I hit this fat coal over to the left
I think he had or so. And as I'm watching
him putt, I'm just hoping that I'm gonna go up
there with one foot and just tap it in, you know,
from six inches away. But when the balls rolling, I said,
and I don't think that's getting there. And it came

(04:06):
up probably just under five ft maybe uh four and
a half feet or so, and I kind of thought
that's what it was gonna come down to. You know.
I was gonna have to step up, I guess. And
I just told myself just hit it solid, just make
sure you keep your head steady. And my hands were shaking.
I've seen a video of it from Luckily it was

(04:28):
from my backside, so I couldn't see my hand shaking,
but somehow the whole reached out and caught it. And
it was a pretty pretty cool thing for us to
make to the weekend. I saw you the week before it,
Hilton had You know, you're sixty eight years old, You're
still you know, you still play occasionally. But to be
back on the PGA tour, I mean, it's one thing
to stand on the driving range and and watch these

(04:49):
guys hit balls and then go outside the ropes and
watch you know, your son Bill play, But when you're
actually inside the ropes doing the exact same thing, what
do you notice about the modern game today and twenty
I mean, who did you guys get paired with? What
were the players that you guys got to play alongside?
And a great pairing our our first two rounds with
Charlie Hoffman and Nick Wattney. And Nick Watney is kind

(05:11):
of like our third son. It seems like he and
Bill have competed against each other all through college and we, uh,
we've had him over to dinner a bunch. And I
didn't know Charlie quite as well, but you certainly know him.
He's one of the older players. I guess you'd say
on the PGA Tour. But the three of them hit

(05:32):
it about the same distance, and you know, thirty forty
buy me on every hole. But that was fortunate to
to get to play with guys that I that we knew.
I guess at least it was. And the thing I
noticed is certainly the distance the length that these guys

(05:52):
can hit it. There's no hole really that plays too
long for him, maybe too narrow, maybe the pins are
certain places or whatever. But that being said, I think
the modern game now is fired at the flags. There's
no doesn't see many guys play safe anymore. They shoot
it every single flag, um, no matter what whatever club

(06:14):
they have in their hands, they're going for it and
feel like if they're on, they're gonna shoot sixties six
and if they're not, you know, maybe seventy one, two
or three, but eventually they're gonna get it. So I
think that's a little bit of difference that I see
from say, thirty forty years ago, players who were much
more conservative, I think, and just didn't have a mindset
that they needed to shoot sixty four and fives every day.

(06:38):
Would you say that the difference, I mean, you grew
up in an era to where accuracy was everything. Your
game was built around hitting a lot of fairways, hitting
a lot of greens. And you know, even maybe twenty
years ago, you know a guy like Nick Faldo who
was as big and as tall as you know, maybe

(06:58):
even bigger than a guy like Dustin Johnson Foaldo. It
was all about accuracy hitting. The great players of your generation, Jay,
were ball strikers. They were elite ball strikers. Yes, you
had some guys to get hit the golf ball a
long way, but I look at that. You know that
famous eight three Ryder Cup team that you were on

(07:18):
at Palm Beach Gardens. You've got Jack Nicholas Is the captain,
Lanny Watkins, Ray Floyd, Tom Kite, Fuzzy Zeller, Ben Crenshaw, Curtis,
Tom Watson, Calvin Pete. They were some of, if not
the best, elite ball strikers. They were known for that.
And as you said, the modern game now is they

(07:39):
basically hit driver everywhere right and there aren't any flags
that they feel like they can't go out. How do
you think, do you think the technology the ball or
do you just think that the game is evolved to
where if you're not doing that you're behind the eight
ball because everybody else is. They are all great points.
I think right at the two thousand, two thousand one,

(08:01):
when the probi one came out and that type of
ball was in vogue, I think the the numbers jumped
quite a bit. Uh. Technology certainly has played a big
role in the players that you mentioned in that eight
three Ryder Cup. I think that's just the way we
had to play, is nobody could crash it out there

(08:21):
very far. I think to seventy was a huge benchmark
that back in the eighties or so that that was
not many guys hit it to seventy, and so if
you were two fifty in the middle of the pack,
you really weren't giving up that much. Now, if you're
too ninety, your middle of the pack and guys are hitting,
and so it's a big, big difference. As far as

(08:45):
the way the guys play, I'm not sure when that
kind of change, whether it was I would say definitely
in the last twenty years, maybe even the last fifteen
or ten. Where the guys have played I say with
their hair on fire, you know, they just shoot at
everything and hitting it in the rough is not as
penal maybe as it once was. We just had to

(09:07):
drive it in a fair way, you know what a
four and fifty yard of old If you hit it
to fifty, you still had two hundred left. And if
you were playing out of the rough, that was not
a good formula for low scoring. So I do think
that I kind of equate golf in tennis a little bit.
You see the old videos during the wooden racket days
of how elegant the players played. You know, I just

(09:30):
kind of glided across the court and hit these beautiful
back hands and you know, just I won't say dinked it,
but had a lot of cuts, a lot of spin
shots and everything, great net play, and now it's just serving,
you know, win a point. And golfs a little bit
like that. I think the swings of you know, thirty
forty years ago were much more elegant and again kind

(09:53):
of just a product of the times of what the
equipment dictated. And now, you know, the guys take a swing,
it might be their last swing, you know, at least
it would if if I swung that hard, I'd be
on the ground and they'd be it for me. How
much do you think agronomy has changed in the way
they set golf courses up from when you know, you
came on tour in the in the mid seventies, you

(10:14):
won your first tournament out in San Diego. In My
dad talks a lot about how the golf course is
unless it was a major. The green speeds, you know,
at a regular PGA Tour event now and the way
that they tuck pin positions on Thursdays now or the
way maybe they used to on Sundays. Right, Yeah, that's

(10:37):
a great point. A lot of people don't think about
the agronomy part of it and the condition of the
golf course. Used to be a hundred percent of us
lord steal spikes and now there's very few guys on
the p g A Tour or Champions Tour for that matter,
play with the feel spikes so not and it doesn't
matter because you can knock down spike marks. But you

(10:59):
think about a hundred and fifty guys walking over a green.
Now you've got a green that looks like a battlefield
sort of, and three and four footers are difficult. Now
that you mentioned the speed of the greens, I think
the advent of these great motors that they have now
and how to grow grass, and they can get it
just as clean and as sharp as humanly possible, and

(11:22):
so the ball rolls terrific. And and again, you know
you're talking about the pins that are tucked. I don't
think the guys think about a tucked pin anymore. They again,
they just shoot right at it. And certainly they're hitting
less clubs. You know. Again, last week I was hitting hybrids,
four or five six irons into holes. And these guys
are you know, like I said, forty and fifty buy

(11:44):
me off the tea, and they're plus they're an iron
or two longer than me. So now I'm hitting the five,
they're hitting the nine iron, you know, or a wedge.
So it's the hit. The pins are hardly hidden unless
the pin is just on an edge where it's you know,
water to the side or something. Mostly guys just fire
right at it. Five hundred and ninety two cuts. I mean,

(12:08):
I remember we were I think we were in Ireland
at Mount Juliet and it was when your son Bill
was you know, he was wake for us. He was,
you know, an all American, you know, tons of buzz
and I asked you, you know, you must be really proud,
and he's an amazing player. And he said, you know,
he is an amazing player, but he comes home from
college with a bunch of these guys that do the

(12:29):
same thing that you're saying that they did last week.
They hit it miles past you. But you said, you
know what, they don't really beat me that often. And
this was in two thousand three or two thousand four,
and I said to you, why do you think that is?
And you can we're hitting some balls on the range there.
I think Tiger won that year and he said, you know,
I don't know, But you said, when I was young,

(12:51):
I just developed a lifetime hatred of making Bogey's. And
you said, I just think I hate making bogis more
than they do. Where does that? Because my only called Billy,
who county for you forever, Billy said that. He said
Bogey's would would literally eat you a lot, not doubles

(13:12):
and triple bogus. He said, you would get so mad
at making double bogus. Where do you think that came from?
I'm not too sure where that came from. I just
think it's my competitive nature. I want to succeed. I
feel like I can when I get over a shot,
I feel like I'm going to get a good shot.
And you know, you you talked about some of the

(13:33):
younger guys there in college guys, and I think there's
a difference between uh, you know, hitting golf shots and
playing golf. And it's like the picture that can throw
at ninety eight but can't pitch, you know, it doesn't
know how to control a game or something like that.
I do think that they're there are a ton of
guys who on the range you watch him hit, and

(13:54):
you know, how does that guy not win every other week?
But there is something to to scoring and shooting a
decent score when you don't have it. You know, don't
not turning a seventy two into a seventy six, turning
a seventy four into a seventy that's what you that's
when you learn how to play. I guess and you know,

(14:15):
from my early days when we first got our cards
back in the seventies, it was top sixty and you
were a Monday qualifier if you were on the tour,
and so you had to learn number one, how to
Monday qualify, how to get in the term, and then
number two and all important was making the cut. And
so that meant you didn't have to qualify the following Monday.
You were in the next week. So that was kind

(14:36):
of my mindset to make this cut. And I knew
that bogie's uh many bogies was not a formula for
making the cut. So I don't know. I just uh,
I missed a shot, just messing around the backyard shooting
free throws my grandson and I get pissed. So uh,
I don't think you can teach that. It's just me. Um.

(14:57):
The year you turned you won your first PGA tourvent seventy.
I went back and looked total purse for the PGA
Tour that year was ten million dollars. In two it's
it's four hundred eighty one million dollars. Do you think
that the money that they play for now, you can
get going bad on Friday, you know you're gonna miss

(15:18):
the cut, and you can just say, you know what,
screw it, I'll play next week. I've got another chance
next week. I can get hot next week because there's
so much money available now that maybe that drive to
grind every single week, I mean the one my dad.
It drives my dad crazy. Guys that win a golf
tournament and then they're gonna take three weeks off. It

(15:40):
drives him not obviously, when you back in the day
when you were winning, the last thing you would have
ever thought of was taken time off. I do think
that when you're playing well, when you do win a tournament,
that's the best time to win another one because everything
is going your way. You're full of confidence obviously playing well,
so why not go out there. But I was always

(16:01):
one to go play. I'd love to play. I love
to compete. The guys don't play as much as most
of us played back in the sixties, seventies, eighties. Even there,
the money I think has changed to the attitudes a
little bit. But at the same time, there were guys
in my era early on who you could see kind
of throwing the challenges out the heck with it, I'll

(16:22):
get it next week. There were just, uh, you know,
the best players. I think I would fight to the finish,
you know, and some of my best hitting, my best
tea green golf came missing a cut and learning something
in the last few holes for the following week, you know.
So I just think you have to run through the

(16:43):
tape there at the finish line. You can't ever say
oh the heck with it, And I won't say I was,
you know, A committed every single week when I was finishing,
but it was again in just a different mindset. The
guys had to play a lot of money. You had
to play a lot of terms because the money wasn't
that great, and you know, I can think of many
times finishing and winning twelve, you know, and that doesn't

(17:07):
add up very quickly. And I do think that, you know,
when you the money that you just talked about, was
that fifty times more money than what we played for,
So that's a that's a big, big jump. The cost
of living has not gone up that much. So it's
hard for the guys, I think too, to stay motivated.
Maybe I do hear a lot of guys saying, no,
I'm gonna play til I'm forty and then that's it.

(17:29):
I'm done, And I'm thinking, well, what are you gonna
do after that? After your forty birthday? You know, I mean,
it's why most of the guys play, and the money's terrific,
but the competition. They just love to compete, and that's uh,
that's me. I think. One of the things I think
we're seeing in this in the current game JA now

(17:49):
is there's no paying your dues, apprenticeship, going out on
tour and figuring out how to win. You know, you
got to spend to three years learning the golf course.
We see these young kids, Jay, come out year on
year and just win early. There's they go from college
to winning. You had an unbelievable college career at wake

(18:10):
Forest National Championship team in seventy you won the individual.
You and Curtis were part of a team back then
that they said was part of the greatest team, you know,
in history. But we see these kids come out now, Jay,
and there's just zero fear when you look at that.
How do you look back at the time that you

(18:30):
went out and what you were feeling when you got
out on tour coming out of college versus the way
these kids come out now, and it's just like, yeah,
I was good in college and I'll be good in
the pros. I couldn't agree more. I think that I
certainly wasn't ready when I came out and watched the
best players in the world. I was far from their
talent and their experience. Obviously, I think today's players are

(18:53):
just more seasoned, whether they play more tournaments when their juniors,
whether the college game is that much better. You know,
when we played, they were probably six or eight schools
that really promoted golf. There was only a couple maybe
in the A, C. C. And now almost across the
board you've got fifty or sixty schools that really put

(19:14):
some funding behind the golf program. So the guys learned
to compete maybe at a higher level sooner than than
we did. Junior golf. Shoot that I didn't play three
or four tournaments a year, and and they were just
local tournaments. I grew up near the St. Louis area,
and so you know, we play inner club matches, play

(19:35):
the district singlist, district tournament. I maybe traveled to Chicago
for an event one time, and then if I qualified
for the National Junior that was kind of it. And
now with the A, J, G, A and a lot
of other junior events, these kids are playing twenty and
thirty tournaments every single year when they're twelve and thirteen
years old. So perhaps their timetable is moving up a

(19:55):
little bit. And you know, they they certainly looked more ready.
You know, you look at Jordan's three majors already and
I guess he's in his late twenties now, but it
seems like he's still only about fifteen. And so many
of the top players in the world now are are
in their twenties, and that is flipped quite a bit,

(20:16):
probably a ten year difference, I would say, from say
the seventies or eighties until now. Uh, if you took
the average age of the top twenty players in the world,
I bet there's a good tenure difference. And I just
think they're more prepared. And then the young guys see
the other young guys playing well and they said, well,
I beat that guy when I was playing in you know,

(20:38):
Oklahoma or wherever I played. Uh. It just gives them
more encouragement that they can do it as well. So
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com Backslash off Course. And now let's get back to
the interview with Jay. Awesome this run that's Scotty Scheffler's

(22:05):
on right now. I mean it is, and I mean
for someone that played, you know how difficult it is.
You know how difficult it is to keep the momentum going.
What do you make of this? I mean, this is
we just haven't I don't think we've seen this since
it's a tiger esque type run, throwing in not only
winning tournaments, then winning a big w g C. But

(22:29):
then to throw in a major and throw in winning
at Augusta. It's it's unbelievable what he's doing. One of
the best runs in recent memories, Like you said, Tigers.
And the thing I like about Scottie is that he
doesn't have a say, a cookie cutter swing. I mean,
it's kind of his own. Obviously, he's got an instructor,
and he's worked hard, and from what I hear, he

(22:51):
won I don't know, seventy junior tournaments or something. So
here's a guy who's I don't care what level you
play at. If you can fin is the deal. If
you can close the deal, then there's something to you inside.
You know, you know how to win, how to close it.
So he's certainly proven that. And I actually caddied for
Bill and Jackson Mississippi a couple of years ago, and

(23:13):
he played with Scotty the last day and he was
very impressive. But you know, you wouldn't say, well, this
kid is gonna be number one in the world in
ten minutes, you know. I mean, he's just all of
a sudden has just uh, each time he's had a chance,
he's closed the deal, which is very impressive. He hasn't
spent the bit at all coming down the stretch. And

(23:35):
you know, there was a to my point about Cookie
Cutter swing that I think that the sound wasn't on.
But I was watching the Masters and they showed his
footwork maybe, and he's got kind of old school of footwork.
You know, his right foot kind of slips in there,
and uh, you know his base, his foundation doesn't seem
a textbook. But if you just didn't see the swinging,

(23:57):
you just looked at the golf shot each time you
go why this guy is good? When you're on this
a run like he's on and and you as a player,
you've gotten on it every We always talk about it's
a cliche. You can't put a price tag on confidence, right,
The confidence that builds from tournament ton when you are
in runs like that and you've had them in your career,

(24:19):
both on on the PGA Tour and on the PGA
Tour champions What what is that feeling of confidence that
that takes you from week to week, from shot to shot,
that gives you that extra gear that maybe you didn't
have three or four or five weeks a year earlier,
I think it all depends for me hitting a good

(24:41):
shot under pressure and then hitting the next good shot
under pressure in that situation. Now, I will say that
there's pressure on every single shot you hit, but some
more than others. In the sense of a creek right
up next to the green, the pin kind of tuck there,
and you hit a heck of a shot from with
a five iron for five yards for me and hit

(25:02):
it in their ten feet, you know, all of a downhill, lie, say,
are just some shot that you're not usually pulling off,
and you do. And now the next time you have
a difficult drive, say a tight hole out of bounds left,
water to the right, and you just hit your best
drive of the day. That starts to build momentum. I
believe in my case, I feel like when I can

(25:23):
hit the good shot under pressure time and again, then
I feel like I can do it at any time.
And that's when usually I get on a little bit
of a run. So uh, you know, you look at
the shots that Scotty has hit here recently, and I
think his short game was a little bit overlooked, perhaps
some of the up and downs that he made. Of course,

(25:45):
the unbelievable shot at the third hole on Sunday for Bertie,
looks like he's gonna make five or six, and he
makes three. That that's kind of an outlier there, but
a ton of other ones. On the very next goal,
he hit a chip from over the green back left.
He chipped it down a foot, you know, tap in uh,
time and time again. When it looked like he had
a chance to crack, he didn't. And so those all

(26:07):
go into maybe he's not all a five iron shot
from the fairway. It could be a bunker shot. It
could be a little seventy five yard wedge shot from
the fairway over over a bumper. So just hitting good
shots under pressure is the whole key. Your son, Bill,
I mean, he's he's had some tough times, do you
do you feel like he's kind of moving in the

(26:28):
right direction that his game he's and we are going
to see kind of Bill get back to when he
won the FedEx Cup in two thousand eleven. I mean
he was on your President's Cup team. He you know,
he always had a beautiful natural you know, just a
swing that you know, my uncle Billy always said, looked
like it was unencumbered by thought. You know, he just

(26:48):
put the golf club in a good position turned through. Um,
can you when you watch him play, can you give
him any advice? Do you look at some of the
things that he used to do and and think maybe
he could get back to that. Where do you think
his game is? Yeah, I do think that he's he's
turned somewhat of a corner. He's uh, he's shooting some
better scores. He's shooting a good many scores in the sixties.

(27:11):
I think he's made seven straight cuts now, but he
hasn't finished the weeks off. You know, he's kind of
backed up a little bit on the weekend, which is
a little bit unusual because you know a lot of
times in my case, like I said, making the cut
was so important it kind of gave me confidence going
to the weekend. But I do think that builds a
lot like me in the sense of hitting good shots

(27:33):
under pressure. Is that fuels him? And he might say
that's kind of simplifying everything, But it might be a
shot that just doesn't look that hard, but to us,
to a certain person's eye, it is. And so when
you can start pulling those off time and again is
when you start shooting better scores. Now, he Uh, you

(27:56):
know one thing, I can't really put my finger on.
His swing looks pretty much the same. You can break
it down. You can look at into a video from
fifteen years ago, from twelve years ago, and yet it
looks a little bit different. But it doesn't. I wouldn't say,
oh my god, he's got to stop doing that or
try doing this. And and at the same time, Bill
is kind of an artistic player. He's just now I

(28:21):
wanna say, grip it and rip it. But you tell him,
hit a high one here, Bill, and he hits it high.
He's he hit a low one, hit a cut, hit
a draw, and he does that. But I just don't
think he's confident in what he's doing right now. And
that just comes again with with hitting good shots when
you need it most. That balance, Jay, that you were
talking about, Um, I see it so much in all

(28:43):
of the players that I'm lucky enough to work with
that are trying to play junior golf, amateur golf, college,
you know, trying to get on a tour somewhere, that
balance between technique and execution. Um. Do you think that
sometimes players can maybe overpractice and overdo their technique because

(29:06):
you know, you grew up in an era to where
it was far more I mean the swings of the
great players of your generation. You know, like we talked
about Lanny Raymond, Tom Kite, Crenshaw, Curtis. Every one of
those golf swings were different, right. They had different grips,
they had different setups, they had different everything. And you

(29:26):
did mention the cookie cutter. There are a lot of
you know, a lot of the golf swings on the
PGA Tour now look similar. Right. How do you how
is a player and for the people listening, for the
people that are trying to play competitive how do you
balance the technical part of things with still having to
be able to play? Because I I was working with

(29:49):
it a junior two days ago and I said, you know,
when's your next tournament? He says, well, I'm not really
playing that good right now, so I'm not playing in
any tournaments and still until I start playing good. And
I was like, how the hell is that gonna work
for you? He said, how do you know you're if
you're playing good or not if you're not playing in
a tournament? Uh? And that's It's a great point you

(30:09):
bring up that I think too many of the younger
players and certainly a juniors, they spend too much time
on the practice team. And I didn't have a great
rain growing up, and I just like to play. I'd
like to shoot a better score than I shot the
day before. What was my low score? What was my
best score that I needed to beat that day? And
that was what I wanted to try to do. And

(30:30):
I don't think there's anything quite like aiming a ball
at a at a hole, you know, aiming at from
the fairway off of a downhill lie aside hill lie,
hitting a shot right then. It's not easy on the
practice tea, but you've got a perfect lie, perfect uh,
you know, technique and all this stuff, and there's no

(30:52):
uh consequence for hitting a bad one on the practice tea.
You know, you just rake another one over. Now there's
a consequence to hitting a bad one the fifth hole
with the water to the left. So I think that, yes,
certain people, I do believe can, as the old saying,
go paralysis from analysis. But everybody's a little different as well.

(31:12):
I think some people can digest more information and be
more technical. And you mentioned Nick Faldo a while ago,
you know, he kind of changed his swing Curtis kind
of changed his swing from college. He went to Jimmy
Ballard and he was one of the longest hitters. He
became one of the straightest, best ball strikers. So you
can change and get technical, but I just don't think

(31:37):
you can. You need You can't lose what artistry or
what creativity, creativity that you have in your swing. You
can't throw that out the window and just think mechanics
because down the stretch and you when you have to
get a great shot. And I always say, people ask
what's a what's a good swing? What makes up a
good swing? And I said, well, well, you're on the

(31:59):
eighteenth hold Pebble Beach and you need to make a par,
and you make a part that's a good swing. Number one,
you got it too. The team cole one shot lead,
and then you know, can you drive in the fairway?
Can you get the second shot out there? Can you
put the third on the green? And can you too
put from par? That's a that's a good player. In
my eyes. I don't care how he does it, and
I think too many people do get wrapped up in
the into swing positions and things like that. If it helps, great,

(32:22):
But I think again, when when the time comes when
you're trying to shoot a score, you can't think in
those terms. And I do think though, going a little
bit farther, I think some of the new modern swings
are not as cookie cutter. You know, maybe there was
a uh An era in there where every swing seemed
to look the same. But you look at Jordan's now,

(32:44):
he's kind of looks like he's trying something in his
back swing, and you wouldn't say he's textbook in his swing.
Certainly Scotty is not John rom very short closed, uh,
Dustin Johnson. You know a lot of different swings in there.
So I think maybe it's going back a little bit too.
How how do we get it done the best way?

(33:06):
And it is my way you grew up. One of
the things I think that's different about the year that
you grew up playing on the on the PGA tour
versus now is there were kind of gun slinger type characters. Uh,
kind of the mean guys Landy, Curtis Raymond, you know guys,
they were kind of almost like hockey enforcers on the

(33:28):
PGA tour, right you knew that they were. They weren't
going to give anything. Do you think that we don't
see a lot of that now. I mean, I look back,
you know, at those type of players, and it used
to be like they were the ones that you thought
could win the US Open just because of their kind
of character makeup. Right now, it seems like anybody can

(33:50):
win the US Up. And I mean, it doesn't really
matter what type of player you are. But you grew
up in are to where there were certain players that
they said could win the Masters. There were only a
certain APO player that could win the US Open and
then the Open championship. You had to have that. Do
you agree with that? Yes, somewhat. I do think that,
you know, the players that you mentioned all great players,

(34:12):
But at the same time, there were probably some guys
that had that same type attitude but just weren't as
good as players. You know, and they just weren't They
only lasted a short time. But I do think any
of the guys that are winning now, they probably have
that attitude of I'm better than you and I'm gonna
show it to you. And you know, certainly the best
players have that confidence that when they step on the

(34:34):
te that they are capable of winning. Now, a guy
like Raymond had a certain walk that in the in
the in the look they said, you know, his eyes
got big and he just basically, you stay out of
my way. I'm coming through and I'm gonna beat you.
And Landy h you know, probably one of the most confident, cocky,
you would say, players of any era, but he could

(34:58):
back it up. And you know, I didn't play as
much golf with Landy early on aunt Lanty's four or
five years older than me, but what I saw when
I did play with him, he was pretty damn good.
Didn't miss a shot hardly, wasn't afraid to try a
shot either, And I think that's maybe what separates a

(35:18):
lot of those guys is not not being afraid to
take a shot, take a chance on the seventeen fold
on the seventy first hole of a major tournament, and
prude at the time that they were the best. The
Greg Normant documentary was just on um um. I watched it.
You know, the six Masters at Jack Nicholas one. You know,

(35:41):
Greg was hugely involved in that. You were right in
the hunts on the back nine on Sunday and eight six.
You were one of the guys. You Tom Kite Sevy.
I mean, everybody remembers, obviously Jack winning and obviously all
the things that Greg Norman did to get a chance
to win on eight teams to lose. But what do
you remember, because that's one of the iconic major championships

(36:04):
in golf history, that battle on Sunday, you were right
in the mix of that. What do you remember about
that that day? I do remember a little bit on
the weekend. I played with Jack on Saturday and we
were both playing nicely. I think he shot sixty nine,
maybe I sat seventy seventy one or something in the
third round, but both of us were kind of we're

(36:24):
having good tournaments, but nothing. We weren't right there. But
that proved to me that, you know, Jack had a
knack of playing every shot the same, whether it was
to win the tournament, or whether it was the first
hole of the tournament, uh, seven iron from the middle
of the fairway on the thirty six goal, whatever it was.

(36:45):
He had a knack for playing each shot as it came.
And you know that's I learned a lot from him
just by observing. But that that weekend I remember playing
very well, having having a great chance. I remember I
he've hit a five iron into the water on the
on the fifteen pole, maybe trying to go for the green.

(37:06):
You say five iron. I thought you were a short hitter.
It was playing very fast, which was beneficial to me.
But I just remember being in that mix a little bit,
and there's nothing like it down there at Augusta. To
hear the roars. Uh. You know, Jack was behind me slightly,
but I was maybe four or three or four holes

(37:28):
ahead of him. But the roars that Augusta, you can tell, Oh,
that was a birdie on two, and then it had
to be Jack. That was a hole out on four. Uh,
that was so and so you know, so it Uh,
there's nothing like that event, nothing like the crowds at
that event. It's the first major of the year, and
just to be in the hunt. I do remember. I

(37:48):
can't remember so many specific shot other than one I
hit the water, but it uh, it's just fun to
be in the mix at that time of the year
at that event. You you made nineteen of twenty two
cuts at Augusta. Um, what was it about that golf
course from a major championship standpoint that suited your game

(38:10):
so well? That's a great question. As well. I think
that after they changed the grass on the greens, it
used to be Bermuda overseated and so the greens were
very firm, but they weren't that fast. And then when
they changed him to Bent, the scores went higher and

(38:30):
the par was a good score, and I was and
I was a plot or sort of, I make par
par par par part. It was the way I played,
and I was decent in the US Open, decent in
the p G a harder golf courses. So once they
changed over, I want to say eighty three four somewhere
and there they changed to Bend, four, five and six,

(38:52):
I finished in the top six. I think those three
years in a row right when the greens got changed over.
So it just gave me a confidence that I could
compete there. And if the course ever played somewhat fast,
it helped me because it's shortened the course for me
a little bit. If it was long, it was it
was brutal and did not suit me at all. And

(39:13):
you look at the guys who generally do well, they're
they're they're pretty long hitters. Although you think about Jordan's
it seems like he plays well every every year there,
but Jack went in six, Tiger winning five, Phil win
in three. Uh. You know, the longer hitter definitely has
an advantage there. But I always just felt, you know,
after that little run in the middle mid eighties, I

(39:35):
just felt like the course suited me and it just
inspired me every time I was there, every time I
was on that practice tea, there was just, you know,
nothing like it. And then of course your family's history there,
and then my uncle Bob being a champion there. It's
just it meant it meant a lot to me, and
I tried my best to get into that champions locker
room with my own name on the locker, but I

(39:57):
couldn't quite pull it off. You mentioned your uncle Bob Goldbye,
who recently passed away, and everybody calls him uncle Bob.
I mean, what an amazing human being and an amazing
character and life that he led. Yeah, he was. He
was quite a guy. I mean, I owe so much
to him about my golf. Started me in the game,

(40:20):
taught me the game physically, but also mentally told me
to watch the best players in the world. I think,
rather than you know, he was a guy that dug
it out of the dirt, as they say, there was
not much video. You could film your swing, but you
really didn't couldn't really study it and really break it
down back in the fifties and sixties. And so he
would just say, you know, watch Hailer, when watch Tom

(40:43):
watch and watch Jack, watch Johnny Miller, watch all these
great players and pick things out of their games that
you like and want to make it your own. And
and watch their attitude though, watch how they compete. And
so I think that was the you know, golf wise,
what I really learned it from Bob. But I tell you,
he had some great stories, just like your grandfather. I

(41:04):
tell you it was there's so much fun to hear
all those old stories, and those guys would tell him
again and again and again, and they were funny and
engaging every single time I heard all those stories. And
I'm certainly gonna miss Bob. You know, there's so many times,
just in the last month and a half or so,
when there's been a question about an old player or

(41:26):
something I wanted to get on the phone and ask
Bob about that guy, and I can't do it anymore.
So just missing being around Mrs Mrs Boyce and his
his encouragement and he uh, you know, he's lived and
died now with Bill to watching the internet. He knows,
he knew how to get on the internet and watched
PGA Tour dot com and and watch all the shots

(41:47):
and go on, the hell do you hit at forty
feet with a wedge? You know? And so it was
we we discussed that and just just sad to said
he's gone. But what a great life, what a what
a wonderful guy. He had one of my favorite um
Uncle Bob stories and one of my favorite Master's story.
You could tell it better than I can. When your
your brother in law, Dillard pruett Um played for the

(42:10):
first time at Augusta. He goes out with Bob as
a past champion and and I'll let you take it
from there. Well, you know he uh, he always loved
playing with some of the younger guys, and obviously Dillard was,
you know, part of the family. And I think Dillard
end up playing three or four times at Augusta and
that was that was very cool. But you know, he

(42:33):
would he would go through holes and don't go there,
and don't go there. And we you know, Billy and
I we we would imitate Uncle Bob about how not
to play the course. You know, just don't hit it
in that bunker on the first hole. Can go ahead
and hook it in the trees to the left because
you can make a five from over there. You're gonna
make a six or seven. If he had the bunker,

(42:54):
then don't hook it on two down in the creek
because he did dealt the ticket counters death there and
on and on and on, and of course we embellished
the story slightly as as it went forward, but it uh,
you know, Dillard's head was spinning by the end of
the day, I think. But it's just it's fun to
to learn to listen to some of the old guys
and how to play that. And you know, they remember

(43:16):
that you just can't make a par on number one
if you go to the left. That's just depth over there.
So you learn the hard way a lot of times,
and a lot of the old guys they just want
to try to help you avoid pitfalls out down there. Jay,
How for for players and junior golfers and people that
are listening, there's there's an art to playing golf, right,

(43:40):
and then there is practicing golf, and then there is
playing golf. How do you think is the best way
to become better at playing the game. I mean, you
were inside the top twenty in the Official World Golf
rankings when you're when you're in your fifties. I mean
that type of longevity to have the career that you've
had to win nine times on the PJ Tour, eighteen

(44:01):
times on the Champions Tour. You're part of a winning
Walker Cup, Ryder Cup President. That playing of the game.
How how can people get better at learning and playing
golf as opposed to practicing golf? Yeah, I do think
that standing on the practice tea can be fulfilling at times.

(44:23):
You know, you get get a rhythm with your driver
and you hit it, hitting it great and everything, but
it's a little bit shadow boxing. You know, you gotta
get out there and you've got to put a scorecard
in your back pocket, as they say, and what did
you shoot? You know, don't tell me how far you
hit to drive, don't tell me how many greens you hit?
What did you shoot? And I do think that going
out as a junior player, sometimes the hardest thing to

(44:45):
do is to find some of your peers to play with.
You know, you you if you're fifteen years old, now
you're in high school and you're starting to play high
school golf, and so that you're your pool to pick
from your buddies. It's it's growing a little bit. But
before that usually playing with your parents and they're kadalia
a little bit. And so I do think that you know,

(45:06):
going to play golf, you know, going out to shoot
a score and learning that you might not have it
every day. You're probably not going to have it every day.
Very few times you're gonna be just totally on and
you've got to learn how to get up and down,
you know, from a tight lie, hitting an over a green,
hitting the wrong club. Just again, learn how to score.

(45:27):
And that's kind of an art in itself. I won't
say it's a lost art. But the best players, I
do think, even from a young age, they learn how
to score, how to how to play golf as opposed
to play golf swing. And certainly you want to learn
if you need to learn to not lay it off
or you know you're changing your grip, you move off
the ball too much, you dip, whatever you're trying to

(45:50):
not do in your golf swing, then yeah, maybe work
things out and practice tea. But you've got to see
if you can do it on the golf course in
a situation. And you know, pressure situations aren't necessarily on
the eighteen coal when you got a four footer, they
might be just just playing a casual round on the
third hole, or you uh again, you got a tight

(46:11):
drive and you put it down the fairway and you go, Okay,
I'm working on the right thing. I can do this
and it's gonna help me as I go forward to
shoot a score. When you were playing competitively and you
got into those pressure situations, what did you rely on
to try and help you focus? Was it mechanics, was
it visual? Was it situational? How did you manage the

(46:35):
pressure that that competitive golf, whether you're at the junior
golf level, the amateur college or the professor. How do
you maagine? What? What were the keys that helped you
manage pressure? I think any and all the above that
you mentioned I tried. But I do think that believe
you have to believe in yourself. You have to believe

(46:56):
that you can pull this shot off, and you can't
be afraid of the situation. I think as I got
older and I won more tournaments on the champions tour,
and if you can believe that I got more confident
as I turned fifty. I almost did because I kind
of had the attitude of try to hit a good
shot as opposed to trying not to hit a bad

(47:16):
shot and embrace the situation of being nervous. And I
tell Bill Jay whoever all the time that I would
much rather be in the arena being nervous, can't spit,
can't swallow, and can't feel the hands, all this different
stuff than sitting on my couch and watching it. I'd
rather be doing it than watching it. So if you

(47:40):
if you'd rather be watching it, then you know it's
probably not for you and you're probably not going to
succeed when it comes time to hit a good shot
when you need it most. So I just think you
have to talk yourself into it mental gymnastics. I've done
this a thousand times before, I can hit this shot,
And you have to believe in yourself. Now you might not,
but you still you have to believe that you can

(48:02):
do it. Then you probably can't. If you're in those
pressure situations, you you're a decent player and it means
something to you. I think that's number one. If it
means something to you, You're probably gonna be nervous about it.
If it doesn't mean anything, then then it doesn't mean enough,
and it's and it's you're not gonna feel a pressure
you You had a very very unique golf swing, you know,

(48:23):
it was always kind of your unique golf swing. You
kind of picked the club up a little bit open.
Do you think that if you would have grown up
in this era that maybe another instructor, somebody would have
tried to change that, because when I look at the
older swings, we're starting to see more of it now.
You mentioned Scotty Scheffler. I think Victor Hoblin is a

(48:45):
little bit of a throwback. Matt Wolf is a little
bit of a throwback. But do you think the role
of technology in golf instruction maybe would have changed some
of the great golf swings. Yeah, it could have certainly
could have. I think that again, we grew up in
an era where we didn't really see our swings, and

(49:05):
my swing kind of evolved from one summer Bob came
home and he said, boy, it looks like to me
you're breaking the club. But your your cocking your wrist
too quick, and your club's too close to your back
in your back swing, he said, I want you to
go back kind of dead wristed, you know, not break
your wrist until the last moment in your back swing,

(49:27):
get your hands higher. And so to me, not breaking
my wrist meant kind of going kind of straight back
and so not having any kind of rotation or not
maybe being on plane as much. And when I first
did it, he said, oh, that's beautiful. And so now
he's gone for six weeks, and by the time he
came back, I kind of gotten where it was going

(49:47):
outside just a little bit. But I tell you, I
played some of my best golf of my young career
at that stage, and hitting it it was hitting it longer,
had had more of an art, you know, hands higher
and all that, and that's kind of where that swing,
my my back swing came into play for me. And

(50:07):
so I interpreted his you know, go back a little
more dead risk, the late risk cock. I equated it
to kind of going up you know, higher and uh
and more upright, saying the back swing. And I've you know,
tried to change it to become more aesthetic or to
become more textbook and everything, and it just went every

(50:28):
which way. So I just said, you know, it's a
funny story that Billy tells. He was cattying for me
at the bout Folk Tournament and we were at uh
Laquinta and we're on the driving range in Lackington. I
was kind of struggling a little bit. Bob was doing
TV at the time, and he's watching me hit a few,
and I'm hitting him kind of depths all over the place.

(50:51):
And so some spectator, hey, Bob, Bob, come back here,
and he goes, I can tell you what you're your
nephews doing wrong. He said, he's taking it too far outside.
And so of course that got Bob's you know, hair
on the back of his neck stood up, and he
you know, Papa Bear. He came to my defense and
he says, well, you would have changed Palmer shut at

(51:12):
the top and the curly Q finish and Miller Barber
Sky right at the top of his swinging in Jack's
flying right elbow, and Johnny Miller reversed to you to
change all that. Trevino aimed fifty yards to the left
and hit a cut, and Sam wing thirty yards of
the right. He went through all these great players and
this poor guy, he didn't know what to say after
all this and stuff. That was the end of that

(51:33):
conversation about changing my swinging. But it just again, it
just what evolved. It is hard to say what would
have happened had I had the technology that they have today.
I'm man, I look at my swing. I think most
players on the PGA Tour. And somebody said this to
me a couple of weeks ago when I was out
watching Bill at Hilton Head. He said, you know, none
of these guys like their own swings. They like everyone

(51:55):
else's swings. And that's true. It might have been you, uh,
we were talking, but it's just funny how all the
swings have a little bit different quirk, uh, and most
of them do all kinds of great things and maybe
one thing that they wish they didn't, But it's it's
what your mind's eye sees. And you've done it for
so many years and hitting so many balls that it's

(52:17):
this hard to change it when it's under pressure. You know,
you made a close to combine forty million dollars on
the PJ Tour and the champions I think one of
the underrated parts about your game that I always loved
to watch Jay was the putting stroke that you had.
It always had this beautiful rhythm. How much for you
of putting is technique and how much of it is

(52:39):
is art? Well, that's a that's a tough call there.
I think that my putting stroke kind of emulated my
long swing for so many years, and I went back
kind of handle first and and then kind of dropped
it in the slot, say, and it had a pause
at the top of my swing to kind of put
it into that slot to give it time. And my

(53:00):
my putty stroke is very similar. You know Tom Watson landing.
Watson is very quick, you know, direct to you know,
boom boom, very very quick stroke and I try to
do that, but that's so foreign to my inner tempo
that that makes sense to me. And I always say
that when I'm under pressure, my my stroke gets slower

(53:21):
then faster, and I don't like that because, you know,
the best cutters just seemed like they're very confident, they
have a uh, just a positive hit on their ball,
and mine sometimes I kind of I won't say decelerate,
but it's just kind of no life on my stroke.
And so, uh, probably two thousand one is when I
ran in to Stand ugly, and I had known Stand

(53:44):
for quite a few years. Not real great, but he
kind of just made some sense to me in putting,
and so it changed. I changed my technique to kind
of more, uh what looks open to close, But in
my mind's eye, it was just kind of keeping heir
to the arc of my my stroke. I think I
was more closed to open as a younger player, and

(54:06):
I think I was an okay putter, but never great.
And I think when I changed, I I won't say great,
but I became good a lot of the time. And
that kind of that was really the reason that in
my late forties and early fifties that I played someone
best Goll eighteen wins on the Champions Tour, three majors

(54:27):
um that eight three Ryder Cup team on the European side.
Tony Jacqueline was the captain. Nick Faldo Sevy Bernhard langer
Ian wisdom. How can you put into words what Bernhard
Langer is currently doing in not only the Champions Tour,
but in the game of competitive golf. You've played with

(54:49):
him for ever. It's unbelievable what he's been able to accomplish.
It really is he seemingly as the same person he
was fifteen year years ago. Physically the way he plays, Uh,
you kind of go up and give him a pat
on the shoulder in or in the gut or something
in the mens rock hard, you know. He he says

(55:12):
he doesn't play and practice much when he's home. I
don't know about that, but he always seems to be ready.
Uh he puts great, you know, with the big oar there.
He just never seems to miss a meaningful putt. And
that's saying something because here's a guy who I didn't
really know that well. He played mostly his early career
on the European Tour, and they said he had the

(55:34):
yips three or four different times. And that's pretty incredible.
That he arm locked a cross handed left hand low
whatever you to say. He's tried it all, and so
to to have beaten that and become, you know, one
of the best putters that we've seen on our PGA
Tour champions is pretty darn incredible. But he's been playing golf.

(55:56):
I don't know. I think he turned professionally. He's about seventeen,
so he's probably played more professional golf than I have.
But he doesn't appear to be slowing down at all.
A great Bernhard story. When he was first learning the game.
I think he had a three iron. He told me
he had about eight or ten balls, and he had
a field that was about, I want to say, he said,

(56:17):
eight hundred yards long or something. And he would hit
these eight or ten three irons, and he would go
find him and he'd hit him in the same direction,
and he said he could hit it about three times,
and then he would turn around and he would hit
him three times back the other end. And that was
you know, he said, they would go everywhere and he'd
have to look for him the you know, it was high,

(56:39):
high grass in this field and all that. But that's
pretty cool that a guy starts that way. He didn't
start on the first heat of beautifully manicured country club.
He started in a field with one club with ten
balls that were probably not very good, and became one
of the greatest players ever played the game. That's kind
of the opposite of the world I live in, because

(56:59):
I have twelve year old kids coming and tell me
their truck truck Man combined scores that they didn't bern
Hard needed a combine to to to mow the grass
down on the field, right. Uh. Great stuff. You know
you mentioned Ian woos him on that three team. Uh,
I saw a great thing. I don't even know who
carried it, but it was maybe the the Fabulous five

(57:23):
or the something. Have you seen that where it has Savy,
Sandy lysle Bernhard Um, Nick and I can't remember who
the other guy, but they go through there. They were
all born the same year, uh in it and it
shows kind of their childhood and all that. And and
Loozy kind of the same thing. He lived on a

(57:45):
farm and he said, I hit balls in the field
and it was kind of high grass. He said, That's
why I'm comfortable in the rough. So uh. But it's
pretty cool to see how these guys have have risen
to be all time greats and Hall of famers from
different backgrounds and just shows it that you know, kind
of really what's inside and it matters most and technique

(58:05):
is one thing, but can you get it done when
you need to. Lastly, you mentioned Nick Watney kind of
being an adopted member of your family. I can't think
of anybody. I'm fifty two years old. I'll be fifty
three over the weekend. I've known you basically my entire life.
I think, out of everybody that has been in the
orbit of of the Harmon family, to me, you were

(58:26):
always as much a part of our family as as anyone.
How much has that influenced your life in your career?
I mean, obviously the relationship you have with my uncle Billy.
Your son Bill is named after him. My uncle Billy's
got a son named ja. Um, you knew all the brothers,
you've known my dad, you knew my grandfather. Um, what

(58:47):
what was that like for you? Well? I do think
that golf, in the professional golf world is kind of
one big family in itself, but one person knows the
next person as well, And I don't know, it's just
there's a lot of togetherness, I suppose. But at the
same time, you know, we we had a lot of

(59:09):
the same background with your grandfather winning the Masters, my
uncle winning the Masters. Uh. You know, you got four
three uncles that their club pros. Uh. You know, grew
up with the game, and it's just, you know, very
very similar. That golf is kind of all I've known,

(59:30):
and you know, the harm And family is synonymous with
the game of golf, and you're starting with your grandfather
at Wingfoot Thunderbird, uh and and tour golf as well
and Great Tour Golf. So it's just in that regard,
I think that I've been so blessed to have been
around all these great people that have led the way.

(59:52):
And I always say that we all need somebody to
put their arm around us, to say this is the
way you do it, son, uh, and don't deviate from that.
And I was lucky to have my uncle Bob, and
you're lucky to have your dad and your uncle's and
your grandfather and all that. So it's just it's meant
the world to me to be involved with was certainly

(01:00:14):
Uncle Bob, but certainly the harm and family as well.
Miss Dick. Every day I tell you, you know, we're
here in Houston this week, and it's just can can
think of many times going to dinner with him down
here and just what a guy he was. So it's
just again, but your dad has always said, you know,
always felt like that I was the fifth brother and

(01:00:36):
all that, and kind of on the same funny bone
wavelength is as your uncle Billy. And we we talked
probably every other day and text at least, and uh,
we've we have a different relationship than you know, teacher,
pro whatever, and more of a he says, I'm not

(01:00:57):
as student and he's not the teacher. We're spar partners.
He cost me. I always doubt and I always questioned
what he's telling me, and uh, but it's been a
wonderful relationship for sure. We were in Houston at a restaurant.
I mean it's got to be in the last ten
fifteen years, and we were having lunch and a bunch
of people there and I can't remember if it was you,

(01:01:19):
you got Billy going on something. You kept firing the
same word, and Billy started laughing and he couldn't stop laughing.
And every time he'd start laughing, you'd give him the
line again, and he it was it was like he
was going to fall over. He was laughing so hard.
A couple of little kids, and you know, one of
us gets the funny bone of the other one. And
we never stopped. And I remember one time when Dick

(01:01:40):
was alive and we were doing a pro am there
and we went to some barbecue place and we were
all really hungry, and Billy kept coughing but saying brisket
at the same time, and and that was a funny situation,
and uh, what what makes us laugh? You know, dumb
stuff or like a couple of kids. Well, I think
it was really really something special, not only for you

(01:02:04):
and and Bill to get an opportunity to do what
you did, but I think for those of us that
got to watch you guys play and get to the
Zurich and make to make the cut. Um, I didn't
even know you were playing. And we were walking on
the range and Hilton head and he said, I said,
what are you up to when you play again? You said,
I'm playing played next week with Bill and Hilton, And
I mean in Zurich, said you're playing with Bill and Zurich.

(01:02:25):
You think, I mean? It was It was a hell
of a feat, super exciting, And every time I go
to the Masters, I always remember that. In nine seven
you took me over to the Part three course during
the tournament and you we went fishing, and it is

(01:02:47):
the only time I've ever been fishing. And like you said,
he said, it's not really fishing here, it's catching because
if you throw the throw the bait in, you're going
to catch. But every time I go to Augusta j
and they talk about the Part three. The first thing
that pops into my head is I was I think
I was a senior in high school and you taking
me over to the Part three course during the tournament.

(01:03:07):
We went down, we went fishing and I caught a
fish and held it up. So I want to thank
you for that. I appreciate you, um taking the time
to talk to me. Like I said, you're as as
much a part of our family as as anyone. And um,
you know, congrats on on everything that you've been able
to do because obviously doing this research and going through

(01:03:27):
all of the stuff, Um, you're a pretty good player.
Well again, I feel way ahead of the game here
on what golf has given me. It's been a great
ride and I don't want it to end. It's what
would I do? You know again, I just love the competition.
I loved last week. I love trying to get better,

(01:03:48):
trying to hit a good shot, and that's, uh, that's
what fuels us all. I think, you know, just the
one on one can you do it at a time.
But uh, congrats to you, Claud on all your successes
as well. It's been fun watching you grow up when
you said you're gonna be fifty two. Oh my god,
No fifty three, fifty three. That dates us all there,

(01:04:09):
loyal and you know, and in typical harm and fashion,
my dad always tells me that I'm the worst teacher
in the family, so I know I must be doing
a good job well, you know, but Billy will always
say that, how do how does Butch get to be
number one in the world when he's the fourth best
teacher in the family. So it's good, good natured vy.
We all love to give every good all of this

(01:04:29):
a little grief every now and then, but that just
means we love you all right. Great to talk to you, Jay,
I appreciate it, right, Claude, talk you soon. So that
was a really cool interview with Jay Hass And you know,
like I said, he's like a member of the family,
so really really cool to get to talk to him.

(01:04:51):
And I just love kind of listening to the old
school guys. I mean, I'm I'm around some of the
greatest players in the world that are currently playing, but
to anytime you can get an opportunity to talk to
someone them like Jay who has had such an amazing career, Um,
it's a it's a really cool opportunity and I think
there was a lot of really really cool stuff. Um
let's get two questions. How quick are you to change

(01:05:13):
a player's grip or is that a last resort? That's
an interesting one. I mean, I certainly think with um,
regular average golfers, UM, you can make some big changes
in the in their grip. You know, a lot of players,
you know, especially you know, if you're a right handed golfer,
you've got that weak left hand and then that really

(01:05:33):
really strong right hand, so the grip kind of rides
very much down in the palm of the hands. And
I'm not a huge fan of that because it's when
players get their hands in the opposite directions. Personally, I
think it's easier to play from a stronger grip because
it can get the club face and a better position,
you know, going back at the top, and then get

(01:05:55):
the club in a really good position at impact. I
would say that, Um, you know, rarely do we see
a lot of players now, um, certainly at the elite
tour level with weak grips. I think that is one
of the changes. My dad talks about that all the time,
that the modern players have a lot stronger grips, and
you know, as the grips. As grips have gotten stronger,

(01:06:16):
players are able to kind of rotate the body through impact. UM.
I'm not a huge fan of a weak left hand,
So if the grip, if I see a player that's
got a really really weak left hand, I'm definitely gonna
try and get that into a little bit stronger position.
And UM, if you are going to make any sort
of grip change, UH, some advice that I can give,

(01:06:37):
do it first and foremost with short clubs. So if
you're gonna try and strengthen your grip, it's going to
be hard to do that with seven iron, It's going
to be hard to do that with a driver. But
if you can do that with UM, let's say a
sand wedge or a lob wedge or a pitching wedge
and just make some little, small, little half swings, that's
a really really good UM way to change your grip

(01:07:00):
up and get your grip in a good position. UM.
How to hone a distance with fifty sixty degree wedges?
UM want to turn into eight feet? I think if
you've got access to a launch monitor, dialing in and
figuring out how far you hit your distances, UM, that's

(01:07:22):
to me. One of the biggest values UM of launch
monitors is to get them and use them to figure
out how far you not only hit all of your clubs,
but to dial in your wedge distances. You know, man,
I think some baseline wedge distances are, you know, figure
out fifty seventy five yards. I think those are really

(01:07:44):
really good baselines because you're gonna have a lot of
wedge distances from there. If you don't have a launch monitor,
you can get a range finder and you can take
a an alignment rod on the driving range and go out,
put it in the ground at and try and carry
it that distance, and put it in the ground at
fifty try and carry it that distance, and then put
it in the ground it's seventy and try and carry

(01:08:06):
it that distance. But having an idea of how you
hit your wedges, I think a lot of players just
don't practice distance control. So UM. One of the great
things about UM launch monitor technology is UM you can
use it to really really hone in your wedge distances.
So if you're trying to hit the golf ball fifty yards,
you can figure out if you're tending to be too far,
or if you're tending not to to be far enough

(01:08:28):
so if you're coming up short. So I think it's
a really easy way to get dialed in on your wedges.
And if you can do that, that's the way that
you're going to try and figure out. You put towels
on the ground, you can put hula hoops on the ground,
and then just figure out what the yardage is that
you're trying to hit and really really hone it um
into that position. And um, I think it's a great

(01:08:49):
way to do it. Recommendations for a coach starting out,
that's a broad one. I mean, you've heard me talking
about it before. I think one of the things that
you want to do if you're an instructor and if
you're trying to get into you know, instruction, if you're
trying to get into coaching, is to read, listen, watch
as many different instructors as you can, and try and

(01:09:11):
get an idea of the things that you believe in
the golf swing. UM. I think it's really important that
as an instructor you have an idea of what you
think is important and what helps players get better, not
just what you would hear someone like myself say, or
someone like Sean FOLI said, yes you can. You can
grab and borrow and use some things you hear other
people say. But at the end of the day, I

(01:09:32):
think it's important that you as an instructor, you as
a coach, have a really clear understanding as to what
you feel as important in the golf swing, so that
when your your students ask you and they're coming to
see you, they can get a really really good idea
of what it is that you teach and what it
is that you want to work on. So getting a
really good idea of the things that you believe help

(01:09:53):
players get better or is hugely, hugely important. And then
you've just got to stay and and give a lot
of golf lessons. Um. You know I've done that. I've
been teaching now for over twenty years, and you know
I made a huge amount of mistakes earlier on in
my career. So having a really good idea of what
you want to try and get across, UM, work on
your communication skills and and try and listen, you know,

(01:10:17):
listen to podcasts like this one, listen to other people's
podcast listen. You can go on YouTube and watch people
give seminars stuff. But getting a really good broad base
of knowledge and then saying, Okay, what do I want
to try and work on with this player? What do
I think can help this player get better? And I
think it's an easy way, and I think it's a
vital way to get better as an instructor. I want

(01:10:38):
to thank everybody for listening. Um, you know, downloads have
been really, really great. We're going to continue to have
some great guests of course, with Claude Horman comes to
you every Wednesday. We will see you next week.

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