John Wood Interview: The keys to a good caddie-player relationship, the caddie difference for the world’s top 10 golfers and how new broadcast voices are improving the game

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:09):
It's episode fifty four of Off Course with Claude Harmon.
You know the drill. We come to you every Wednesday.
This week's guest John Wood. Sure a lot of you
who watch golf are seeing John Wood on the Golf Channel,
NBC broadcast. Former caddy of almost twenty years, Hunter Mayhan,
Matt Kutcher and now is doing a unbelievable job as
a on course commentator. So um, one of the coolest

(00:33):
guys I've met on the PGA Tour. Great story and um,
I'm really excited for everyone to listen to what he
has to say. Before we get to that, let's take
a moment to thank one of our partners, a rap Sodo.
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(00:56):
are the same things that players on the PGA Tour
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There's a new data visualization as well, which will give
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(01:16):
course listeners an additional one hundred dollars off to try
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one dollars off a rap soto dot com backslash off course.

(01:37):
And now let's get to the interview with John Wood.
I guess is a twenty year veteran of cattying on
the PGA Tour. Now you'll know him from Golf Channel NBC.
John Would Would. We've been trying to do this for
a while. I'm glad we finally we finally got to

(01:58):
do it. I appreciate it. Thanks for me on, I've
been looking forward to this. Um. How did you do it?
I mean, how did you make that? When did you
know um that it was time to stop carrying the bag,
stop caddying. Um? I know that must have been a huge,
huge decision, UM, one that you didn't take lightly and
probably thought about why and how did you come about it? Yeah,

(02:21):
it was it was a deep thought kind of in
my head what to do. Um, I knew this opportunity
was there, Tommy Roy had bones and I do it
a few years ago in in uh Sea Island. I
really enjoyed it, had a great time doing it. Um
was surprised at how much I took to it, and
then um so I always had it in the back
of my head. Um, towards the end of working for Coach, Um,

(02:43):
I was just getting a little drained out there, a
little burned out. It wasn't that I wasn't enjoying, you know,
Thursday through Sunday and getting in contention and all that stuff.
It was kind of the leading lead up to it
where I was kind of getting a little burned out
on things, and Um, I didn't. I still had the
passion for it when you were there Aaron and the
hunt and playing, but WAS was losing a little bit
I think in the preparation. Not that I was slacking off,

(03:06):
but I wasn't enjoying it as much as I used to.
Um So, I couch and I finished the PGA at
Harding Park. I decided I was gonna work for Cameron
Champ that fall and decide, you know, let's see if
this is something new is what I need? Um, and
if that. I had a good time working for Cameron,
we had a little bit of success, but it really
told me that I was ready to do something else.

(03:27):
And um, you know, I talked to Tommy Roy and said, hey,
I think I'm ready if you've got anything for me,
and um, you know that that's how it happened. He said,
we'd love to have it, and uh started right away.
You know, my dad came back to Augusta for the
first time since nineteen is you know he doesn't he
doesn't travel on tour anymore. And I said to him,
I said, when did you kind of make the decision
or know that it was time to maybe cut back

(03:49):
on the traveling. And it was interesting he said, you know,
to do what we do and you and I caddies
and coaches, we have kind of the same job. The
players are the stars. Absolutely, we are employees of theirs.
And and my dad said, you know, I knew it
was time for me to quit traveling and quit you know,
doing as much on on the road and t when

(04:09):
I wasn't living and dying by every shot, you know
I was, He said, you know I'd be at home
and I'd watch a guy and make a double bogeye
and and he said, you know, it didn't affect me
the way that it used to. Um, how did you
get intogether? One of the things in doing prep for
this would I had no idea that you played college
golf at cal Berkeley. Yeah, that was before before the

(04:31):
days of Maxihoma and Colin Morrikla. We weren't quite the
powerhouse that they've become then. But I did. I did. Uh.
I might have graduated from there, but I did play
college golf there. How many years did you play? Just
a year? Just just my freshman year, and then I
kind of got a little sidetracked in life in general,
and uh, you know, got away from it from there.

(04:54):
What kind of player were you and what made you
I want to be a golfer as a young her?
You know, I didn't start playing seriously until basically my
sophomore year in high school. I was always a baseball player. Loved,
lived and died by baseball is all I wanted to do. UM,
And then in between my freshmen and sophomore years in
in high school, I got really into golf. UM had

(05:14):
some talent and got pretty decent, pretty quickly and started
playing golf my sophomore year. Basically in high school. UM
had a lot of talent. It was great on the range.
I couldn't couldn't bring it to the course as often
as as I should have. Um, Um, so I can
hit it a long ways back in the days of
Ladas and and uh Per Simmon. But uh, I was

(05:37):
always a kind of guy who kind of I liked
the range a lot more than I liked the course.
So the talent was there. I could hit the shots,
but maybe we couldn't always take it to the course.
Do you think it helps um being a caddy having
come from somewhat of a competitive playing background, Because there
are players Um that have caddies that that played college golf.
You know, UM Xander and and his boy Austin. I

(06:00):
mean they were college teammates, JJ, your caddy's for UM
Calin Moore Cow was a hell of a player. And
then you have other guys that you know weren't necessarily
great players. Sure, I think it can go both ways,
but I do think it helps in just that you
have that competitive mentality of how hard this really is
out there. It may seem like a simple shot when

(06:21):
you're home watching on TV or or you know, but
when you're under the gun and you feel that pressure
and you know what it felt like when you played,
you know, be at baseball or golf or whatever, Um,
you realize how hard it really is. And I think
you really have to to keep that in your mind
as you're talking to your player and trying to get
him to do certain things, or you know, trying to

(06:41):
figure out psychologically where he is. And and it helps
having that background of of competitive of competition to kind
of lead him one way or the other, just to
know how that feels like under the skin. So how
did you get involved in Candy? I mean, I think
everybody always said, you know you hear people. Now, I mean,
obviously you can if you get the right player, you

(07:01):
can make a lucrative living. Um. You know. Uh, Austin
Johnson has made a pretty AJ has made a pretty
good living be Me and Candy for the for the
Human a t M Machine, his brother DJ. But I
keep asking, I keep asking bones Win is gonna he's
just top fifty money lest exemption and play for a year.
Exactly how did you get into it? Um? I was

(07:23):
I knew Kevin Sutherland very well from the Sacramento golf scene.
His teacher Don Backham, Kevin was on tour for a year.
He had five or six different caddies, didn't really settle
on any of them. Um, And we were out, you know,
it was the it was the off season between his
first and second years on tour. We were out just
hitting balls one day and he and his coach Don
Bachham asked me if I'd be interested in coming out
and trying it. And you know, you think you know golf. Um,

(07:47):
you played junior golf, and you played college golf, high
school golf, and you think, you know, have a good
grasp of what it is. And I didn't realize what
went into it on tour until my first couple of
weeks out here with Kevin Sutherland. So you know, Kevin
had asked me, and I came out and and uh
and that first year and I honestly figured I do
it for a year or two and then get back
to the real world and get a real job and

(08:07):
and move on. But gosh, I fell in love with it.
That everything about at the job itself, to travel, um,
the people, everything about it just suited me so well.
And uh, you know, that was seven years ago. So yeah,
my math is I didn't go to Berkeley. So my
math is that, yeah, I caddied for twenty three twenty

(08:30):
four years, and now this is my second year of commentating.
So that's how I got into it. So your first
year out Kevin Sutherland and then you move on from
Kevin to where Chris Riley very briefly, um that his
Ryder Cup year I worked for in the last three
quarters of that year. Um, and then that offseason we
split up. You know, he he had hired He basically

(08:51):
wanted his brother in law to come out, which was great.
And then I worked for Calcabeckia for a year and
then Hunter Mayhan right after that. So Chris Friley caddy
form in the Wryder Cup at Oakland Hills. I did. Yeah.
So you guys get paired with Tiger and the Wryter Cup. Yeah. Yeah.
It's probably the loosest I've ever seen Tiger Woods in
my life on a golf course because Riley just it
was a perfect partner because he just cracked him up,

(09:13):
you know, and that's Tiger having a good time is
a dangerous man on the golf course, as you know, yeah,
and then obviously a tremendous amount of success with Hunter Mayhan.
When you get those opportunities, I'm always interested in, you know,
is it Did you know Hunter? Did he seek you out?
Was Shawn Folly involved? How does that process happen? It's interesting. Um,

(09:36):
I was working for Calcubecki, yet we got paired with
Hunter in Milwaukee. This was Hunter's second year on tour
um and he ended up losing his card his second year,
which is crazy for the amount of talent he had.
But after we got paired with the Milwaukee I went
to Matt Rawlins, the ping rep, and I said, hey,
you know, if Hunter's ever available, you know, please let
me know because I think the world of his game.
And we got along grade um and I guess a

(09:58):
couple of weeks later, Hunter said this same thing to
Matt Rollins, said, Hey, if what he ever becomes available,
please please let me know. Um. So Hunter ends up
losing his card that year. Um. I left Calcavecki kind
of towards the end of that year, went to tour
school with Hunter, got his card back and and uh,
you know that was that was how he and I
got together. So it's kind of a strange set of circumstances.

(10:18):
But boy, we we had a great run together. Had
I had so much fun, so much success with Hunter again,
you know the parallels between the coach and the caddy. Um,
when you're looking at a player that you're going to
go on the bag for, is there a criteria that
you look for? I mean, obviously, when you've at the
later stages of your career, when you're when you've caddy

(10:39):
for Hunter and Matt Coucher, you can kind of pick
and choose who you want a candy for or who
you don't. But when you're looking as a caddy at
a player and not just yourself. But I'm sure there's
some similarities between all caddies on on what you're looking
But what are you looking for in a player? What
I like is um not necessarily like, but what I

(11:02):
look for is physical talent that you look at and go,
why isn't this guy shooting better scores? Because that's when
I think a caddy can really help. UM. You know,
a caddy's a jockey. Basically, you can be the greatest
jockey in the world, and if you're on a donkey,
you're not gonna do a thing. That's just the bottom line.
So when you see a player like Hunter, you know
who who's an unbelievable ball striker, um, and you saw

(11:25):
him not having the finishes you think he should have.
And that's what kind of piqued my interest that maybe
I I have something that I could add to his
game that that would really help him out. Um. You know,
like you said, towards the end of your career, if if,
if great opportunities happen, they just happen. But um, you know,
early on looking for players, I think you look for
that physical gift or that that you know that they're

(11:49):
not getting anything out of their game. Um. If you
look at a guy and you think, boy, that guys
I can't do anything for him. He's getting every stroke
out of every round. Um. But but a guy like
Hunter who hit it so great and it just wasn't
putting up the finishes he should that That's how kind
of piqued my interest. As well as the personality. I
think we really fit. You know, I think that's a
huge thing that people overlook alive. You can have you

(12:11):
can have the numbers, you can have the the right advice,
the great green reading. But if you don't have that
personality mix which A J and DJ have obviously being brothers.
It's not gonna work because you're together six seven hours
a day, force four to six days a week, and
if you don't have other stuff to talk about other
than golf, you're not gonna last. It's just not gonna last.

(12:32):
So you've got to have a I think, a good
strong personality match. I always say to people that the
caddies spend more time with the players than anybody. Caddies
spend more time with PGA Tour players than their wife,
their children, and their agents, certainly anybody in their life. Um,
that personality mix. I mean we see it, we see

(12:55):
it click, and then it's almost like it works until
it doesn't. It. It's just like the coach relationship. I mean,
I've gone through situations to where one day I get
a phone call and I'm I'm like, wait a minute,
I'm getting fired today out of nowhere. Right, we've had
success with players, Um, they've done very very well, and

(13:15):
out of nowhere you get fired. I know what happens
in your world as well. In the caddy ranks. It's
like all of a sudden great success and then one
end as the as a coach, and I know you've
gone through. You can feel when it's coming, right, you
know when you're going to get fired. It's uncanny that
you know when you're getting the bullet. Absolutely you said

(13:37):
that exactly right. Um, you can feel it coming. And
and you know, I'll give you example with Calcavecchia and
even with Hunter, the same thing. Um, as it was
coming to an end, you feel that, Um, there's kind
of some all of a sudden, some awkward silences and
you're going, this is not the same. And then as
a caddy, the things that you used to say to

(13:59):
him always worked, whether it was a swing tip or
they stopped working. And us you're you're searching your brain
at night in the hotel room and during a practice
rounds what do I need to do? What? What? What's
what's going on? And you can feel it happening. And
when you can't come up with an answer that's gonna
help that guy, that's when it's it's time to have
that talk. You know, whether you you um, you started

(14:19):
or he starts it, it's time to have that talk
because am I doing what you need right now? And
a lot of you know, with Calk. It was Calk
is such a good, good, good guy, and we're still
great friends to this day. You know, when I talked
in was after Hartford. I remember like it was yesterday.
But I knew he wasn't gonna fire me because he
liked me too much as a friend, as a as

(14:40):
a person, and he did not want to have to
make that move. So I kind of said, look, Calc,
I think we both know it's not working out there
right now. Let's let's let's let's you know, I want
to get you playing good golf again. And if even
if I don't do it, I want you playing good
golf again. So let's, you know, let's let's have a
split here if we want to get back together at
some point. Same thing I said to Hunter. You know,
let's let's do it, But I think we need to.

(15:01):
I think you need to look at somebody else right now,
and whether that means get a buddy out there, and
you do all the thinking yourself, you do, all the reading,
you do, all the decision making yourself great, whether you
have somebody else in mind, that's great too, But a
lot of times, you know, they just need to look
at somebody else. And and right or wrong, that's just
the nature of the beast. I always think that caddies

(15:23):
and coaches get fired for the exact same reason in
the end that they got hired. You. You you, you,
you put a lot of time, you put a lot
of effort, you care, You're talkative in the end. I've
had situation where like, you're you, you call me too much,
You're always talking to me, You're saying too much, You're
doing this, and they're like, you know, you know, it's

(15:43):
just too much. And I'm like, dude, that's the reason
you hired me. You hired me because you said that's
what you wanted. Do you think sometimes because it's a
and and? Do you think sometimes because it's not a
team sport? Right, even though the caddy player relationship there
is a team element to it and the coach player caddy.

(16:04):
You know when you've worked with players, I mean when
you were working with with with Hunter Mayhan, it was
you was shown Foley there was a team. Right, when
you worked with Um coach it was you and Chris
there was a team there. Um. But the player can't
fire himself, right, so he has to fire somebody because

(16:25):
he's the player. Absolutely. Uh. You know there's that old
joke if he if if the player hits it offline,
it's the coach's fault. If he hits it long or short,
it's the caddy's fault. But there there's some truth to it,
you know. It's it's um like like we said, it's
sometimes just something clicks the wrong way and it's just
not working anymore. And you know it, he knows it,

(16:48):
and and you can't take it personally. And the bottom
end of the day, it's all business. And whether the
player thinks that, hey, this is my business, this is
my living, this is my job to do something else
right now, you've got to take that and say it's
nothing personal. I didn't do anything wrong. I don't think
it's just it isn't what he needs right now. And
same thing when a caddy leaves a player, Um, you know,

(17:10):
it's just it's a business. And if you think that,
you know there's there's another opportunity for me here or
I'm not this relationship isn't what I wanted to be anymore. Um.
You know, the player can't take it personally either. It's
it is business at the end of the day. So
let's take a quick break to talk about our friends
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(17:31):
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(17:51):
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Go to Cobra golf dot com to learn more. Now
let's get back to the interview. So the obvious question,
because I get asked this all the time. People say, listen,
I'd love to be a PGA Tour caddy. How do
you get into it? Um? What do you think I mean?
Because the joke is show up, keep up and shut up.

(18:15):
Right to be to be a caddy? Right? The modern
PGA Tour caddy in T two is evolved so much
more than what people think. And there is this kind
of thing and again to mirror the caddy coach thing.
Every you have. This this this part of the golfing public,
the writers, the fans and say, listen, anybody could carry

(18:37):
the bag, right, I mean, it's an easy job. They'd
be great regardless of who is caddying for them. I
don't necessarily agree, but to be a great caddy. In two,
what do you think are the skill sets that you
need to have to have a good career. You've got
to be incredibly organized. Um. You've got to basically organized,

(18:58):
not only yourself and your own life, but you've got
to have a mind of what your players because you're
you know players they are. They're thinking about their golf swing,
they're thinking about how to hit this shot. They don't
always have good time management. They don't always have Um,
you know, what should we practice today? Or how much
I'm working. I don't realize I'm playing five in a row.

(19:19):
Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we should take a day off here,
two days off. Um. So you've got to have incredible
organizational skills. You've got to know your players personality. I'm
not saying his game. You've got to know his personality
so well that you know what he wants before he
knows it. Every time I'm walking up to if I'm
caddy and I'm walking up to a shot, I'm getting

(19:40):
the basics. Obviously, I'm gonna get a number and what
I what the wind is doing. But I'm also thinking,
what are the five questions he may ask me about
this shot? Because when he asks me, I don't want
to have to take out my yards book and fumble
around and him and hall because that is breeding you know,
no confidence whatsoever in your player. If he asks you
a question and immediately you've got the answer. Yes. No,

(20:01):
here's why. Um, it just breeds confidence in those guys.
And if they are confident over a shot, you know this,
they're gonna hit a good shot. That's just how good
they are. If they're indifferent or confused about a shot,
that's when the mistakes come. So you really, I always say,
you know a good Catty, Paul's a story, um of
bones at Joe Lacava, Michael Greller. Uh, they have the question,

(20:24):
they have the answers to ten questions that never get
asked on every single shot. They're ready for it. Um.
Because you know, a player oftentimes doesn't delve that deep
into a shot. UM, it's pretty basic to him or
or the way you've explained that it becomes basic. But
you've always got to be way ahead and think what
is he gonna want? Not only shot wise, but hey,
he hasn't taken a drink of water in six holes,
and I'm sure he hasn't thought about it here drink

(20:45):
the water. Hey, Usually you need to eat something right now,
because I know you're intense and it's the fourteen toll
and but you know you've got an hour golf left.
You haven't eaten anything at all all day, so just
put a little something in you. So you've got to think.
And golf is unique in that and other than tennis,
it's the only sport where coach nobody else can talk
to the player except for us. So I think, uh,

(21:06):
it's incredibly important to listen to what you guys are
working on with the players. I can't stress enough working
with Sean Foley and Hunter, how often Sean and I
spoke about what they're trying to do. What should I
look for? If if it's working, well, obviously it's gonna
be obvious. But if it's not, what should I be
looking for out there? Sean and he'd be very specific

(21:27):
about it. So you just gotta you know, not only that,
but you know, you you talk to the wives, you
say Hey, how's everything going. You're not asking them about
their marriage, but hey's how how's Maddie doing? What did
you guys do these last couple of days, Just to
have the idea of what's going Talk to the agents
as well, Hey, I'm coming up. What do we have
going this week? What? How much time do we have
to practice? Yep? Absolutely, you know, talk to if you

(21:49):
if you're around their kids, talk to their kids. Find
out about their literal league games and their golf tournament
they just played in, so you have something to talk
to and relieve the stress out there. Um, to do
a good job in dern day, Caddy, it's an it's
an all encompassing job. You really gotta have a little
bit of everything, um, you know, right down to the trainer.
His his shoulder hurts, his legs hurting here, Um, he doesn't.

(22:10):
He's he's hurting here. Like you know, when a guy
is hurting, you know he's not gonna be thinking as
well because he's he's struggling with some sort of injury.
So sometimes you take over on on on stuff that
you normally wouldn't just to take away a little decision
making away from him, just so he can relax a
little bit. So it's just you gotta listen to everybody
on the team, everybody in the camp, and know what's

(22:31):
going on in their lives and just be incredibly organized,
you know what, in your experience. And I think people
listening will be surprised at I think what your answer
is going to be, how many good numbers do you? Guys?
Do it? Does a player in a caddy get around?
How many good numbers were you just are able to go, Hey, coach,

(22:52):
it's it's a nine. It's just a stock nine, four
or five. Maybe it's crazy. Is that about what you say? Yeah,
I'd say it's about about that. It's always something a
little different. Hey, you've got to you've gotta cut this thing,
and you gotta make sure you flight it. You gotta
make sure you turn it over to get the extra
yardage or the release. There's always a little something extra there, because, um,

(23:14):
it's one thing to be able to hit one stock
shot and hit it, you know, thirty feet all day
A lot of you know, there's a lot of great
players in the world who can do that. But to
get to that next step, um, it's just little tiny
things like that. Um. So yeah, I'd say four or
five times when it's an absolute no brainer driving rain
shot as as a as a caddy. And I'm sure

(23:34):
everybody is different. But the numbers in your head when
you're getting a number for a player walking up, you've
got the yardage book, you're walking up to the sprinkler head,
you're walking back, and give it to the numbers that
you think are important to give your player or what
numbers because I'm sure everybody it's player depending. Because some

(23:55):
players want a lot of information, and then players don't
want a lot of information. Yeah, that's exactly. It varies
a lot um. You listen to the conversations and Bones
and Phil used to have and Phil wanted everything. Phil
felt like, hey, I want everything. I can dissect it
and figure out what I what's the number, last number
that I need. Other guys they don't want any of that,
you know. I think Hunter honestly played his best and

(24:16):
and a hunter Hunter jokes about it, and I do
Hunter played his best. When Sean told him how to swing,
I told him where to hit it, and he just
did it. There was no decision making, no thought process.
He he was just a physical freak. Uh in that way,
so um, getting back to your question, I think, um,
uh what I lost my train of thought there for

(24:36):
a minute. The number so number onie, I mean, so
we hear a lot now, and I think that's the
great thing about you know what we see now is
I think the announcers and you're part of this as well.
Now that you're in TV, the announcers, I think, and
and the producers are doing a better job that when
there is an interaction between the player and the caddy.
The announcers used to talk over that, and now there

(25:00):
being quiet, so we as as fans and as people
watch sports can hear that interaction. So let's say it's
a it's a part three. You know, a great example
we just we just finished at Augusta National. You county
there the twelve pole. Take me through the thought process
in that from a number standpoint, okay, uh, from a

(25:21):
number standpoint, you basically are trying to hit in the
exact same spot for every pin. Um. I don't mind
hitting at the left pins, but anything center or right,
you want to hit it in the dead center of
that green, which is you know, is what eight nine
yards deep? Um, it's um, it's a situation on that
a hole like that where I always wanted my player
hitting a full shot, taking something off there. I don't know,

(25:43):
I just don't like it that that and or seventeen
at at Sagrass, same thing I wanted them to be
able to because there's adrenaline. You're already getting two or
three extra yards out of every shot you're hitting, but
you know, with adrenaline you might you might get an
extra five. So in terms of numbers there um caddies
would start working on that the second the second shot
was hit into eleven, um figuring out, okay, the wind

(26:06):
should be doing this now when you're walking down eleven fairway,
as you know, you can watch the group in front
of you. So if the first two or all three
guys on on twelve hit it over the green all
of a sudden, you know, okay, that shots playing very short.
Whatever they think the wind's doing, it's not um same thing.
If you see a couple of guys come up short,
you think, boy, there must be some hurt there you
don't know about. So you're basically getting a number. You're

(26:28):
giving them the numbers because they like to hear at
a front number, a total number. But then you're giving
him the important numbers. Where do we want this ball
to land where we wanted to pitch, and that's typically
one or two yards over that that middle bunker, So
you kind of get that in your head. Okay, let's
say we've got one thirty eight front one forty seven
to cover that bunker. That's the number we want, one seven.

(26:49):
We don't need one thirty eight that front left, and
we don't need one fifty two the total. We don't
need those numbers. We want this one number. So once
you boil it down to that, you start talking about, Okay,
what does that mean? The wind should be right to
left helping here. Um, you're a little pumped up. I
think it's a wedge all day long. Um Now, what's

(27:10):
the unique about that hole? Is the wind? As you know,
it's just it does this like one time, um, our
boy Coop said to Lucas said, what's that wind doing
on this hole? On twelve? And Coop said clockwise, which
is that's what it feels like on that hole sometimes.
So you've really gotta you've gotta get it in your
guy's head that here's the number, here's what the wind

(27:32):
should be doing, and tell him. We're gonna feel different
gusts on this te box. You're gonna look over on
that that flag on eleven, and it's gonna look like
not doing that. At that point, you need to make
sure that he waits out the wind. I hate it
when guys go back and forth club club, put it
back in, take another one out, put it back in.
It's just breeding doubt exactly. You hear a lot of

(27:55):
guys pauls the story. Does this a lot, Michael does
this a lot? Bones does it a lot? Um, Hey,
you've got the right one. Just wake this out. The
wind switches, all right, just give it a second here,
give me, give me a fifteen second weight twenty seconds.
It'll turn back around and we'll go. Because inevitably, if
you take that other club out, the wind's gonna turn
around and all of a sudden, you don't have enough.
So um that that's kind of the number on that

(28:17):
whole specifically, but a lot of them. You want the
landing part um, depending on the shot you've discussed. If
it's a wedge, obviously you're most likely some sort of
wedge you're landing it close to the whole, But anything
else you're trying to decide do I want to land
this long and use that backstop. Do I want to
land it left and use that that slope? Do I
need to just carry the bunker and then let it

(28:38):
release from there? So when it comes down to it,
you're boiling down to that where do we want this
to land? Whether numbers one fifty two and we want
to land at That's when you you throw out all
the other numbers because they're useless, and get that one
number that you want in your head and in your
player's head. Am I right, John? And in in my
mind one of the the arts of being a great

(29:00):
caddy's the balance between how much is too much and
how much is not enough information? And that constant battle,
regardless of whether what type of player you've got, how
do you as the caddy? Because I know you've done it,
and we see all the great caddies do it, at
some point you've got to pull the bag over and

(29:23):
go listen, this is not the club to hit. This
is what what I think you should do. I mean,
Tiger's talked about that early on his career. I know
there was a situation at the p GA at Medina
where Stevie early on in that relationship, Stevie called him
over and said, no, no, no, it does this right,
This put does that. And Tiger told my dad that

(29:45):
and he was like, he called him off something, said
no, no no, no, no, you gotta play more. Break. That
can make or break a relationship between a player and
a caddy. Absolutely, And the key there is having fact
to back up your You can't go in there and
go gez, dj I, I think it's a seven iron

(30:05):
and leave it at that, because it's like, well why
I mean that that does mean nothing. But if you
go in there and say, dj, I know you want
to hit this six right now, but we hit the
exact same direction three holes ago, meaning northwest, you'd say,
so the wind is gonna be exactly the same. You
carried that seven iron two holes ago. One you know,
seventy eight easily, no problem at all. This is the

(30:28):
exact same direction. You only need to carry this one
one seven. Um. So if you can get in there
with facts right away, they go okay, yeah, that makes
total sense. Takes all the pressure off them and they're
not doubting it anymore. Um. There there are times, and
it happens to everybody out there, when a caddy comes
up with a club that just sounds insane. But when
you start working it backwards, you know, and think, Okay,

(30:50):
that hole is one eight one, it's downhill six yards.
That turns it into one. It's down wind probably eight
to help. All of a sudden, we're down to one
sixty seven. He's pumped up. Uh, we're down to one
sixty two, you know. And that's how it works out there.
You work backwards, you get the total, and then you

(31:10):
start working backwards and it happens very quickly. But that's
how it works. So you need to have the reasons why. Um,
here's a B, C, D N E. Now if you
if he still wants to hit his club, that's up
to him. That's his decision. You've said your piece and
you you've gave him the reasons. But at the end
of the day, it's his. It's his decision. Um. And
the other thing I used to do is and this

(31:33):
is if we were right in between, I mean, just
an awful number can't figure out what to do. I
used to think, in my mind, I'm not never say
this to the player. I would say that in my mind, Okay,
both these clubs are wrong. They're both wrong. Which one
are we gonna be able to get up and down from?
Which one you want to? That's that's a really good
way to figure out it. Yeah, that's when we were

(31:54):
just stuck, when there was just no consensus. Um, I
would say, all right, they're both wrong. We can get
up on that bunkers nothing. You probably make it more
times than you wouldn't get it up and down, whereas
over the screen is dead. You know. So that's what
I used to do when we were just dead, stuck
in between something is just telling myself both are wrong.
Where are we gonna get it up and down from?
I know that every caddy is different, um, and you

(32:16):
know they're like players. You you mentioned that you think
organization is a huge part of becoming and being a
great caddy. What did John? What did your book look like?
What information were you writing in your book that wasn't
necessarily for you to show hunter or or coach? What
information did you want to be able to look at

(32:36):
when you walk through your book? Because the other thing
I don't think the average fan realizes is how much
homework you're doing away from the golf course. But how
much I mean, there's loads of times where you know,
as as as a coach, you know, we're done practicing,
and the caddy was like, hey, we're gonna go and
walk because we've got to get this lay up. We've
got to get these sitelines. So when your book, when

(32:59):
you were caddying, what did you want? What information did
you want to have that you could right in there
that you could look at, basically contingency plans um for
wind direction. That was my big thing off the tease
is you know you'll play a course and for four
days and you won't see the same win twice. So
I really wanted to know first of all, what club

(33:19):
and I would write this down. If the wind is
helping right to left, I like this club off the
tea because this. If it's hurting, I like this club
off the tea because this. So I had those reasons
right away ready. So you know, if we got there
and we hit three with off the tea Thursday and
Friday and Saturday, the Sunday is different and he's got
in his head that it's just another three with us

(33:40):
we've been hitting all week. Well, no, it's not today.
And here's why. So all those contingency plans for wind
off tease. That's what I wanted first of all. And
the second thing I wanted was up the best place
to get a ball up and down from to every
pin on the course? Um, And that was because you're
not gonna hit it perfectly. I mean, there's you hit
a have a great week, You're gonna have to get

(34:01):
up and down seven, eight, nine times. That's just that's
the fact. That's the fact. So I wanted to know
if we got in trouble on certain holes, where did
we want to leave this next shot where you're thinking ahead,
going we can't get this ball on the green, or
if we can, it's one out of thirty. You know,
it's a it's a miracle shot if you get it
on the green. Well, let's where can we have get that.

(34:21):
I didn't want to have to think over it when
he's getting ready to hit the shot. I wanted that
information ready to go to say, look, you know this this,
like we said a minute ago, that front bunker is easy.
If you can get this ball into that front bunker,
and if it skirts it and squeaks up on the green, fantastic.
But let's figure out where we can get a ball
up and down from I think a lot of times, um,
players are so good that they think they can do anything,

(34:44):
and that's great, that's what makes them so great. But
it also what I think causes a lot of mistakes
out there is they're thinking they can hit any shot,
you know, in the world. Um. So I think those
were my My two big things in a book was
leaves two pins and what we hit off the tees
for different wins. So let's go through the top. I mean,

(35:06):
it'd be easy to go through the top ten players
in the world, but let's go through the top ten
players in the world and their caddies. And I wants
you to kind of give me what you think makes
them such a great caddy. I mean, obviously Scotty Shuffler
on a Tiger Woods S type heater right now. But
I think a huge, huge part of that has been
the addition to Teddy Scott, the long time caddy for

(35:28):
Bubba Watson. What do you think makes Teddy Scott such
a great caddy? You know, he checks every box there is,
He's technically sound, he gets the right numbers, um, he
does his homework. He's got a ton of information, but
he knows when to share that information and when to
shut up his players on a heater, and and you

(35:48):
know a lot of times it's like, here's the number,
let me get as far away from you as I can,
and you go ahead and hit this shot. So Ted's
Ted's not a guy who wants to get overly involved.
He will when his player wants it or needs it.
But Ted has all the information, but he knows when
to keep it to himself and go this guy's hot,
let him go. The other thing about Ted that I
think is probably very underrated is his sense of humor.

(36:09):
Ted is a very very very funny guy and a
great storyteller. And I can't I can't stress how important
that is for some players to have that relief in
between shots or waiting on a t You know, you
get under stress in these tournaments. And and if you
try and talk golf for four and a half hours
and shots, you've got no chance. You've got to have
stuff to talk about in between on the walks, standing

(36:31):
on the weight, on the tees, you gotta wait on,
you know, funny stuff. And Ted's got great stories, and
he's he's a He's got a great sense of humor.
Adam Hayes who caddies for John Rom. Adam had you know,
a lot of success with um Oh Russell Henley. Yeah, yeah,
I mean I mean to Caddy forgot. First of all,

(36:52):
everyone thinks Caddy and for John Rom is the easiest
job on the planet Earth. Right, It's not easy, Caddy.
And for someone that I think Adam is incredibly confident
and players can sense that. They know when I like
we talked about him and Han over a device or
being right there immediately with it. Adam Hayes is always
immediately confident with a shot. And here's why he's always

(37:15):
got reasons and the other thing and you touched on
it here was I think when John came out, I
think even he would admit didn't didn't always take responsibility
for his mistakes. Um. He like to shift blame or
you know, blame other things, whether it be a bad
lie or a win or something. UM. Adam has really
I think mature help him mature out here. Adams, you know, older,

(37:37):
not older, not old, but older than John has been
out here a long time, been under any sort of
stress you can think about here, and I think he's
really helped John mature out here. You don't hear that
out of ram anymore. You know you heard it a
lot early on, where uh did you see that? Or
what a bad break? Or this or that? Almost a
little bit of petulance. But now it's he doesn't do
it at all. He takes total responsibility for it. As

(37:58):
a caddie. That's something you love and and John's become
incredible at that. And I think Adam's got a huge
had a huge part to do with that. J J.
I can't pronounce his last name, caddy's first calling more kala,
I'm coming with Jakovac. But every time it wrong, I'm
hoping I usually just say j J. Another guy, extremely

(38:18):
well prepared, um, tons of homework, UM well, very well spoken, UM.
I think, very very clear and very concise and in
what Colin wants. He understands what Colin wants. And he
doesn't go on and on and on. He just says,
here's what it is, here's what I think it is,
here's a shot, go get him. And I think it
also helps when a player gets a caddy that's been

(38:40):
under you know, been in Ryder Cup, has been down
the stretch at Major's. I think it kind of okay.
This guy knows what he's talking about. I just I
just think I'm gonna listen to him because he knows
what he's talking about. He's been there before. So Um,
you know, JJ is incredibly um prepared. Just That's what
I'd say about j J as much as any thing.
Cam Smith, Um, I only know him as Pinner, Um,

(39:04):
Sam Pinner? Yeah, exactly, Uh Pinner? I mean And when
I I've asked this question the caddy's before and Joe Scarvern,
who has been you know, Ricky Fowler's caddy forever. This
is to three years ago, he used to say that listen,
Pinner is an underrated caddy. He just doesn't get the
credit because Cam Smith is in a superstore. Now Cam
Smith looks like and he's playing like a superstar. Um,

(39:27):
what's Pinner good at and what do you think he
brings to that camp? I think their relationship is something special,
I really do. And I like we stayed with Pinner
and Joe at British Open a few years back, and
I didn't know Pinner very well, but um, their relationship
and their friendship seems incredibly important to their success. Um.

(39:48):
I don't know Pinner, you know well in terms of
the XS and ohs, I do know that. UM, to
have somebody that you have that relationship with and you
know cares just as much about the shot as you do,
or your wife does probably more. UM. I think that
that says a lot to to the to your player,
knowing that we have this relationship where this means as

(40:09):
much to him as it does to me. UM. I
think that's probably Sam Sam and Uh. Cameron's biggest plus
is their relationship together. Matt Minister County's for Patrick Canni
the Revy Revvy Reavy unflappable, Absolutely everybody's hair can be
on fire, They're gonna be every legs could be broken,

(40:30):
and Revy's is gonna go probably gonna go a little
shorter now that your leg's broken. Unflappable, just so solid.
Another guy was a really good player, um just I
think he's perfect for Patrick as Patrick's kind of a
low key guy as his Reavy, their personalities fit really well.
Um Revvy another guy who who is extremely well prepared

(40:53):
but but mostly just unflappable. Just nothing gets to him.
Shae Night, Your County is for Vic to hovelin. Another
guy who I always thought was extremely underrated. Um and
there's quite a few guys out there, you think, God,
this guy he just needs a bag because you know
he's got his stuff together. And UM, I always looked
at Shay like that, and she had some good guys

(41:13):
out there, but nothing to this level yet. Um. And
and now that that he's got Victor, I think he's
showing everybody that what a what a really well prepared, smart,
sharp caddy he is. He's very sharp. UM, always there
with with the right bit of advice, like we talked
about immediately. He's never wanted to grab the yardage book
and go back and forth on something. He's very opinionated

(41:35):
in the right way. Harry Diamond, who caddies for Rory
McRoy I think Harry gets more shipped for no reason.
He's an easy target. Everybody goes, oh, I mean anybody
could caddy for Rory mcilroyd. The I mean, I thought,
what the call you talked We talked about this or
the call at Wells Fargo last year where Rory's in

(41:57):
the lead snap hooks it off the tea and the
call that Harry Diamond made was an unbelievable call to
get him to think about a different shot in a
situation to where not a lot of people are going
to tell Rory McElroy what to do on a second
shot in the middle of the eighteenth Fairy with the
chance to win the golf tournament. Yeah. Absolutely, I couldn't
agree with you more. The thing with Harry, I think

(42:19):
it's very similar, Um, is that their relationship is great.
They had a deep relationship before he started caddying for him. Um.
I'll be totally honest with you. Initially, when Harry came out,
I thought it was gonna be kind of a stop gap.
I really thought that Roy was gonna bring out a
friend for the rest of that year after he let
JP go, Um and and you know, bring out a
buddy just so he didn't get hounded every week. Hey,
can I work for you next year? Can I work?

(42:40):
It would have been awful for him, But I think,
you know, Harry's really grown into the role and he's
become a huge boon to to to. Rory's situation is
exactly like you talked about. Um. He he reminds me
a little bit of when I came out that I
didn't know what I was doing. I mean, point blank,
I'll tell you I thought I knew golf but I

(43:01):
did not. I didn't know what I was doing. Kevin
was incredibly, you know, incredibly helpful in helping me learn
on the job. And I think Rory has been the
same way for Harry. Whereas Harry's turned himself in now
to a very good caddy. I think he knew golf
before and he knew Rory before, but I think now
he's the whole package. He knows how to caddy out
there as well. Bones, who caddies for Justin Thomas. I

(43:22):
know you and Bones are as tight as he's like
a brother to you. What can you say, I mean,
arguably the greatest caddy of all time. I mean obviously
he's had he's had great players, no question about that.
But it's one thing to have a great player, and
it's another thing too to really work hard. A lot
of times you you rest on your laurels. You've got
somebody easy go, I'm I'm gonna make much money no

(43:44):
matter what. This guy's a stud. Bones does not do that.
Tons of homework all the time, extremely prepared. Um. He's
also the first guy I saw Wes Anderson a movie
with We went and saw Rushmore together in San Diego.
That was my first experience, so we'll always share that. UM.
I just I think the world of Bones. I think
he's you know, it's hard to argue against him. A

(44:07):
funny story about, you know, having a great player. You
remember Chris Smith, who Reavy initially started with. Um, he
came up to Bones and I won one day at
a tournament this is a long time ago, and said, hey,
what do you I got a question about Bones, and
Bones are standing right there. I go, this is this
is strange. I said, yeah, go ahead. He said, UM,
you know, we all know Bones is a great guy.
We love him, and he's awesome and a great friend
and all that. But I just I don't I don't

(44:29):
buy into that he's such a great caddy. And I
kind of got taken aback and I go, I don't know,
explain yourself, Chris, And he said, well, you know, when
you work for a guy where all you've got to
do is get it within forty yards of a green
and it's birdie or par every single time, is that
really that tough? I mean, have him worked for me
one week where he's got to get me three feet
every hole to have a chance, then I'll be impressed.

(44:52):
But no Bones. Bones is what what can you say?
I mean, incredibly intelligent, prepared, checked every box there is.
I don't think there's a um many Pete, not many
players on tour. If they said, you know, Bones available,
not many would say I want him. I wouldn't say
I don't want him. Everybody would would love to have
Bones working for him. Michael Greller, who caddies for Jordan's.

(45:13):
You know it's funny, uh, I said a while ago.
I feel like every cat he has the answers to
ten questions that never get asked. Michael gets all asked,
all of them, and he's always ready for him. Um, Michael,
I think is another guy similar to Revvy that he's
he's very unflappable. I think Jordan would be the first
to admit he's an emotional player. He's an emotional guy

(45:35):
and that's how he plays his best. UM, and Michael
is just flat line, you know, he's very even keeled.
He doesn't overreact when Jordan's maybe you know, be getting
a little antsy or maybe overreacts to a shot. He's
just even keel and go all right, let's go find
it and we'll hit it again. Um, here's what we
got now. I think, Um, that's that's Michael's incredible gift

(45:56):
is that he's just incredibly flat line. When when Jordan
can be a little um, you know, can get a
little anxious out there, I think he's Michael is a
rock for him. And then lastly in the top ten,
Austin Johnson A J. Caddy's for his brother DJ. Again
another person. I think when a J came out, everybody
thought that that was going to be kind of just

(46:18):
a little bit of a stop gap, and then DJ
was going to go on and get a better caddy.
But um, I think, I mean, I'm biased, but I've
watched this kid turn into one hell of a caddy.
I'll tell you what, c H. I could not agree more.
When he first came out, Um, and I've told this
right to his face. I always thought, you know, A J.

(46:39):
I thought you were a little too cool for school
when he came out here, you know, never having caddied
and and and you know, he just had that air
about him. But that's just it's he It's not that
at all. He's almost unassuming and self depreciating. And I
think exactly the same thing I did, not Um, I
I didn't think a ton of his caddying early on.

(47:00):
I think he's one of the best in the world.
Now I think he's I think he is one of
the best screens reader out there. I think he's incredible.
Aim point now incredible. Oh he has. He's dedicated himself
to it and he I think what's impressed me most
about him is, you know, it would be very easy
to have this incredibly talented player who is also your brother,

(47:22):
just coast through it. Show up. Yeah, he works his
butt off and aim point is a is a very
good example that that he went on his own learned
that system. And and I don't I don't ever see
DJ ever hit a put without having a j do
an aim point, or as DJ called it to me.
At the the Minnesota Ryder Cup, that foot thing he had.

(47:45):
He had coach come in to read a putt, and
coach read it and said, would come take a quick look.
And I went over and DJ was putting the ball
down and looked like he was ready to go. I said, y'all, set, DJ,
he goes, no, no, do that foot thing for me,
And he poured it right in the middle. So maybe
made me feel good. And I always say that a
J has been become one of the best at that
foot thing. Tell the um tell the President's Cup Korea

(48:07):
story with a J. This is the best, you guys,
this is so good. We get out on the first
hole and DJ and I have known each other forever,
and I mean we got a great listenship, as do
a J and I have. So he and Couch are
playing together and first hole, Uh, we're kind of on
opposite sides of the fairway and um DJ is getting
ready hit and he literally calls across the fairway to

(48:28):
me says, Woody, what do you got that wind doing?
And a J who could have just taken that so
personally and been so angry, which I probably would have.
He starts laughing. I mean he's cracking up about it. So,
you know, we get through the day and and for
the rest of the night and the rest of the week,
he's going, Woody, this is awesome. You bring your book
all carry both bags. You just do that. I'll double up.

(48:51):
I don't have to say a word all day long.
This is great. So, uh, you know the fact that
a J took that the right way as fantastic because, uh,
you know, when I when a player asked another caddy something.
It's kind of like infringing on some some personal territory there.
But a J cracked up at it, and you know,
we still laugh about it to this day. You guys
also made him as a rookie caddy, never being there.

(49:13):
You told him that he had to refer to himself
in the third person every time DJ asked him a question.
We said, as a rookie, you've got to refer yourself
in the third person. So he starts doing it on
the team bust. You know, a J's AJ is gonna
have this for dinner tonight, or a J had a
great workout this morning. So there we're playing a practice
round and he says the DJ. He says, Austin thinks

(49:36):
it's a seven iron. And DJ says, you're not doing
that anymore out here, I don't want to hear that.
And a J says, Okay, a J is not gonna
do that anymore. He still does it too. It's the best.
It's the best. I've got to get your opinion on
on three caddies that that that that I want to
get your opinion on. Um, I'm biased because I was

(49:56):
part of that team for eight years. I think Ricky
Eliot's one of the catty's on the planet, no question.
I love that guy personality wise, smart, sharp, but also loose.
Doesn't get overly. You know, as caddies, we get nervous,
we get anxiety, we want that that's a good thing.
But but Ricky never shows that. He's always you know,

(50:19):
ready for a laugh, ready to take, not overly make
something too big to a player. UM. I have always
thought since the day I met him, I thought, this
guy's really got his stuff together. Um And and I
don't think, um, I don't think there's a player who
respects and likes his caddy more than Brooks likes Ricky.
I think that's there's probably some out there there same.
But um, boy Brooks Brooks values Ricky so much and

(50:41):
rightly so he's just he's just a fun guy to
be around. Yeah, to me, that was a great example.
I was working for Brooks and Brooks had a caddy
when he was playing in Europe. He was gonna come
over to the US for the first time. I've known
Ricky through um being at like no, no, you know,
when I used to work with Trevor Immelman and Ricky
you know, worked for Martin la Favor. He had some
obsessed with with Ben Curtis, best friends with Graham McDowell.

(51:03):
And Graham said, hey, Ricky looking for back, I said,
I think he'd be perfect for Brooks. The first time
they caddy, they they worked together, was the p G
A two at o'kill. So my dad comes out and
he never really met Ricky Ricky before, and he walks
around and he you know, and he says, hey, after
the round, he goes, I know, Ricky's a really great guy,
but you gotta get your guy a really good caddy.

(51:24):
I said, he does have a really good caddy. Yeah,
he says, he's got Ricky eell. He goes, no, no, no,
You've got to get him a veteran, you know, because
there was that thing back in the day that you
had to feel like you've got a player a veteran caddy.
And I said, and my dad said, Okay, why do
you think he's a good fit. I said, because their
personalities are more important than any of the other stuff

(51:45):
in the numbers. And as you said, you've got to
spend so much time with these guys. Yeah, I think
you can hit the nail on the head. And I
always thought that there was two ways to do it. Um.
No the courses be a veteran, no every blade of
grass on every tour, core and try and get to
know your player or know your player and learn how
to caddy. Um. I think it's gone way more to

(52:06):
the ladder these days, where you know the player, the
personalities fit, and you learn how to caddy and what
your guy needs out there. And that sounds exactly what
happened with Rickey and Brooks. And then obviously we couldn't
we talked about all of the America. We couldn't talk
about caddies without talking about two of the euro legends,
Billy Foster and Gareth Lord. Um. I mean they've they've
had unbelievable cruise. I mean Billy Foster is as much

(52:28):
a fabric of professional golf from all of the players
that he worked with. But the age at which he
was able to get on Sevy Bias sterros Bag when
he was I still think he was in his late teens.
I think you're right, it's insane the history that he's
had as a caddy. Um, not only the number of
different great players he's worked for, but um, just his

(52:51):
his everything he's done and for as long as he's
been able to do it blows me away. Um, it
surprises me that that Sky Sports hasn't apped him up
as an on course commentator, because I think he'd be
incredible at it. Um the stories he has to tell
and the insights he can share of over every course
he's ever caddied on obviously, And and I don't think

(53:11):
there's been a Wryter Cup since nineteen three. He hasn't
jumped in the water after you're one. He always somehow
he finds a lake to jump into. When when you're
a Bryan wins a Ryder Cup, it's it's uncanny. And
then Gareth Lord LORDI everybody's favorite. I mean well, I mean,
I mean Karret Lord. He lives in Monaco, He's got

(53:31):
a Ferrari. I mean, is there a guy that lives
a better life than Garrett Lord. He's like Austin Powers,
you know, he's just it's like this international man of
mystery kind of. He's just a great guy, fun to
be around. Um, another guy who doesn't make situations too big.
You know, when when you hear him talking over something
with Henrick and they're they're back and forth. They're back

(53:53):
and forth. Henrickum. He has a way of stepping back
and saying, look, we've talked about all that, here's basically
what it is, and here's why. He has a way
of narrowing in that focus down to you know, six
from six decisions to one obvious one and and it
becomes obvious to the player the way he puts it.
You mentioned that caddies get nervous. Um, it's hard not obviously.

(54:16):
The last thing you want to do is show the
player that what's the most nervous you've been on the
bag on the golf course in your career? Uh? Well,
Ryder Cup in two thousand ten with Hunter when when
it was basically every single person on every player, we
were the last match out and it was deciding everything. Um,

(54:36):
it was a great nervous I wouldn't you know it
was obviously I changed the outcome if I could. I
wouldn't change the experience for a million dollars. To be
in that kind of situation where you know, the whole
golf world is looking at you and everything comes down
to your match. It was. It was an incredible experience,
definitely the most nervous I've been, but it was it was,

(54:57):
like I said, it was a great nervous. It was, Um,
I really I felt like it was a chance to really,
you know, really come up and and show what I
could do out there and really try and keep him
as calm and do as good a job as as
it possible. Obviously the outcome wasn't what we wanted, but um,
just that was probably the most nervous I've ever been,
just because it's not just Hunter who's depending on me,

(55:19):
but it felt like, you know, an entire country, all
your players, all your caddy buddies, um, everybody's kind of
depending on what you're doing out there. So definitely the
most nervous, But like I said, it was, it was
a fantastic nervous. Before we get to your second career
in broadcasting, what's it like walking up the eighteenth hole
knowing that you can to put and you've got the victory,
I've got to think. I mean, I I've experienced that

(55:42):
from outside the ropes and know what that feelings like.
When you know that your player is not gonna three
putt from ten ft fifteen feet, they've hit a good shot.
What's that like? For you as the player and the
caddy when you walk, when you're walking up and you
know that you're gonna win the golf tournament. Well, I
think this is probably pretty common amongst caddies, and it's

(56:02):
not just me. We never ever feel that way, you
know what. You know, I talked about contingency plans. Okay,
we can four put from here, but what if he
hits it here? What do I need to tell them
to settle down? I don't think any caddy ever rests
on it until that last hole, is that last ball
is in the hole and the scorecard is signed, because

(56:23):
you're constantly thinking what could happen? I mean when I
would went to tour school with Hunter, I'll never forget
this arm in the last hole, par five, no penalty
areas anywhere I think you needed to make eight. And
I think I literally thought on that t I go, okay,
let's just play this hole for six. If we make
seven or eight, fine, you know, I'm literally going, how

(56:45):
can we screw this up so bad that he's gonna
make a nine? And so I think it's pretty common
amongst caddies because he just you can't count that no
matter what. Uh five felt lead obviously is one thing,
but two three it's you just can't count it yet
unless you're Austin Johnson. When d J comes out of
the bunker on eighteen at at at when he won
in and and DJ, he he didn't look at any

(57:06):
boards and he said that. A J goes, bro, where
are we in the tournament? And a J looked at me,
he said what, And he goes, where are we leading? Stuff?
And he goes, bro, you got a five shot lead.
Even I can't mess this up. A J s tell
me that the story. I love it every time. So
now you've made the move to Brocktest, do you feel
like it should have always been the natural thing for

(57:28):
Tommy roy Lance Barrow. Um, you know the great CBS,
NBC producers, Um to get a caddy as an on
course come here. We've had coaches and Peter Costas, we've
had great players, but we never had a caddy before. Um,
Tommy gave bones a chance and now you've got a chance. Yeah. Um.

(57:51):
I think the respect for the caddy profession has gone
through the roof in the last fifteen years, and I
think that's been incredibly instrumental in in having caddies on
or before it was kind of like and they carry
the bag, but there there. You know, they probably haven't
paid their taxes in eight years and the FBI may
be looking for them. So I think there was always
that back in the back of people's heads. I think

(58:12):
now that um, it's become very lucrative to be a caddy, um,
and you've got to be much more um, much more together.
I think it's it's become more respectable. And I think
now it's a natural. I think now every scratches ahead
and goes, boy, why hasn't this ever happened before? But
I think I think Tommy Roy took an incredible risk
in bringing Bones and Eye out that that first week

(58:33):
to try it out and see how it would go.
It was who nobody knew. I mean, shoot me, Bones
and I didn't know. We go, God, are you what
are you gonna say? I mean, we were just trying
to figure it all out ourselves. So the fact that
it went well that first week, um, you know, we
could have we could have set it back thirty years.
Had we had, we've been terrible, But I think we were.
We were pretty decent the first week out. Um. So

(58:54):
now Yeah, it does seem like a natural now, But
before I just don't think the respect was there for
the profession that we would have those kind of ideas
and insights into the Gulf. Are you seeing anything now
that you're inside the ropes but you're not part of
the decision making process when you're watching players? Um, but
you're still right there. Do you what? What are the

(59:15):
observations that you've seen that have surprised you that you
see weekend week out? Body language? It's crazy, but how
much I noticed body language now when I was caddying.
You know, you're so into what you're doing in your
book and your player and the shot, and you're not
really even your player. You watch them swing, but you're
not necessarily watching him walk and and do stuff like that.

(59:36):
But we're not out there now. I watch body language,
and I can tell when a guy is about to
do something dumb or about to hit a bad shot. Um.
And you can tell when there's that tension between a
player and the caddy where they're always fifteen yards apart
until they get to the ball. They're not talking vice versa.
You can see that when when somebody's you know, their
heads up and they're prancing down the fairway and they're

(59:57):
talking to their caddy the whole way and they're having
a great time and island and you can tell that
that they're gonna have a good day. So, uh, it's
incredible how much. But I know, I can't believe I
never noticed it before, but boy, body language is a
huge thing for me. Now. What has been the difficulty
Because I've done TV? I did some TV for Sky Sports,
I did interviewing. Um, you know, I've been in the

(01:00:19):
booth which I'm horrendous at. They put me on course
which you know I wasn't very good. What is the
hard part of your job now that the fans don't
know or don't realize. I think that the hardest part
for me is is knowing, not knowing how much time
you're gonna have to get your thoughts across right. Yeah,

(01:00:40):
when they're coming to you, you'll hear it in your
your head, your your earphones. And Tommy says we're going
to thirteen and John's there. Well, then it goes to
the thirteenth phole announcer, whether that's Steve Sands or Gary Cooke, whoever.
It might be. No kind of set up the shot
and they'll throw it to you. Sometimes they've got something
very important to say, and you think, I've got this
great insight into this shot. It's gonna take me probably

(01:01:01):
twenty five seconds to get it all in there, and
by the time it gets to you, you've got seven seconds.
So you gotta make that decision. Do I try and
force this all in there um and maybe talk too much,
or to just lay out here and maybe save it
for another time, maybe so that that not knowing how
much time you're gonna have has been the toughest thing
for me. What have you learned from the other guys?

(01:01:23):
You know, the great ones, right, I mean you know
at NBC. I mean Roger malpi Is. I mean he's
a like legend, right, I mean, he's he's on the
Mount rushmore of on course commentary. Have the other guys
that have come before you and that are still doing it,
have they helped you, taken you under their wing and
and and and given you advice? What's what's been the

(01:01:45):
greatest advice and almost universal from Roger from Gary Coke
from NOA, was to be yourself. You know, it'd be
easy to go out there with an idea of what
announcer should sound like and try and copy somebody else,
or here's the cliches you've heard over the year years,
But every one of them has said, you know, Tommy
hired you to be yourself out here, tell him what
you're thinking as a caddy. Don't tell him what you

(01:02:07):
think the public wants to hear, or you know, what
are you thinking as a caddy. So they they've all
been incredible with that. Is is saying, you know, be yourself,
do not be somebody else. And the other thing I've
learned a lot from Roger Um is to when to
shut the heck up. Roger, I think doesn't overdo it,
and I know sometimes I try and get too much in.

(01:02:28):
That's something I'm working on. But there are times when
nothing needs to be said and you just just let
it go. You know you can, you might. It just
builds that tension. I think in that. But when the
players reading a put to not be talking over him,
to see him walking around, watch his eyes dart back
and forth. Here the crowd noise, and I think, sometimes um,

(01:02:49):
if if I'm talking over that, I can kind of
I can kind of um adversely affect the broadcast. Whereas
if you let that go, let it play out, let
the crowd react, and not say a word that that's
That's what I need to figure out more of is
one to shut the heck up. But I mean, obviously
the broadcasters, both at CBS and NBC UM they are

(01:03:12):
huge the the on air commentary, whether they're on course,
where they're in the booth, where they're doing interviews, they
are huge fabric of the experience of professional golf. From
a fan standpoint, do you feel like you're part of
a newer generation that is maybe going in a different
direction than the kind of what we've had in the past.

(01:03:33):
I mean, I look at what you're doing. I look
at what coult Nost is doing. I think Trevor Immelman
does a fantastic job. There are new voices, right did
they didn't have this background of of journalism and stuff.
But it for me as a fan, what I like
is it seems like we have more people on TV

(01:03:54):
talking like you and I would be talking if we
were sitting in the caddy room watching what was happening,
or in the players lounge or whatever. It's the conversation
that you'd be having watching golf as opposed to that
I'm an announcer and I have to talk like this.
I couldn't agree more. I hope you're right. I hope
that's the new trend and that's the way golf is

(01:04:15):
going because I think it's UM. I think it's more entertaining.
I think it's definitely more informational. You're gonna get a
lot more information from a cult nost um, you know,
or like you said, um about getting deeper into these shots.
It's very easy. Anybody could really get out there and say,
you know, one fifty two nine iron, it's not difficult.
But to really delve deeper into the shots. Here's what

(01:04:38):
they're deciding here, and here's why, here's how you know
it will if it works out, this is what's gonna happen.
If it doesn't, this is going to happen. But to
kind of delve deeper into that conversation that they're having
out there, into the shot they're trying to decide on, Um,
there's a lot more that goes into it than people think. UM.
And you know, with a shot you on sixteen one

(01:05:00):
day might be the complete opposite thing you're trying to
do on Sunday that it is on Thursday and to
explain why those those different shots are so different, um,
where they are in the tournament, things like that. But yeah,
I think I think that is the trend that I
really enjoy that that younger voice and um, not that
I'm young by any means, but um, just a deeper,

(01:05:21):
deeper understanding about what the real nuts and bolts about
what's what's going on out there you and I, as
we all do on the traveling circus of the PGA tour.
I've watched you check in for loads of flights. You've
always got your guitar with you. Um, this is a podcast,
so not everybody can see this. You're sitting in a room.
I see a drum kit. How many guitars I got?
I got? I'm the equivalent of you know that handicapito

(01:05:44):
who by the most expensive and best driving in the the world,
think is gonna help him out. That's kind of me
with guitars. I mean, I love them. I can play,
and I can write, and I can sing a little bit,
but um my, my guitars are way too good from
my my skill level. But it's something I really enjoy.
What is your guitar, handicap What are you what are
you five? No, I would probably say eight or ten.

(01:06:08):
I mean I can play I can play chords, and
I can play full songs and stuff. But like in
terms of ripping off a solo here or something that's
that's not what I can do. I think it's important
and and and you've always struck me as somebody in
and it's hard with the jobs that all of us,
with regards to players, caddies, um, coaches, trainers, physios, were

(01:06:30):
on the road so much. I mean we're on the
road basically half our lives, right, And You've always seemed
to me, what is somebody that has a very kind
of fulfilled and rich life away from your job music?
Film art? Is that something that's been a big part
of your life always? Yeah. When I when I started caddying,

(01:06:52):
I was actually managing a bookstore when I started working
for Kevin Sutherland. So yeah, it's it's um, you know,
I think it's important to get away from it. You know,
when I when I come home, I'll watch the Majors
if we're not covering it, stuff like that. But I
kind of I liked I've always as a caddie, I've
always liked to get away from it, you know, go
to Yellowstone, go to Joshua Tree, you know, write songs, uh,
you know, see films and go to concerts. Um. It's

(01:07:15):
so intense when we're doing it, as you know, Um,
you're sitting there on the driving range working with DJ
before major. He's got a chance to win at that's
incredibly intense, and you don't realize it until you're you've
left and you think, God, I'm tired. What happened? I
wasn't tired, you know, six hours ago. I'm exhausted now.
So I think it's it's really important to have other things,
you know, to go to outside of golf, Uh, just

(01:07:37):
to get away from it for a while. Last question.
You and are big fans of Wes Anderson films. Give
me your give me, give me your favorite, give me
the best one. Come on, I gotta go Royal Tenant Bombs.
And it's it's almost lost a little bit for me
because I've watched it so many times that I need
to almost get away from it and come back to it.

(01:07:58):
But uh, boy, Royal Tenant Bombs has always just slaved
me as the perfect film. But he hasn't done anything
I didn't like. You know right down who was an
American Express commercial I thought was brilliant, so uh, you know,
I adore the guy. And uh I was thinking today
as we were going to do this, I will I
wonder if if he would ever do like a country
club golf movie. Can you imagine how cool it would be?

(01:08:20):
S H three and I would have to be advisors.
We do it for free, absolutely for free, but we
would have to be on set advisors. I had Ron
Howard on my podcast, Um I heard about a month ago,
and we were talking about golf movies, and I mean
the perfect country club. Oh my god, seventies eighties like
early nineties would be a Wes Anderson golf movie. I

(01:08:45):
I can see Richie tannenbomb in his head band right now.
It's just and how and how good would the carts look?
How good would the clubs and the clothes be? Oh
my god, I would want that. I would want the clothes.
I would take the clothes with me afterwards, for sure,
no question about it. Yeah, that would be. It would
be brilliant. I don't know if he's got any interest
in that or not, but uh, we you and I

(01:09:05):
have to be advisors if he ever does, well, I'm
I'm going if I'm going my number one. I go
back and forth between Grand Budapest and Darjeeling. I mean
it's just like, yeah, absolutely brilliant and it's funny there.
There's certain ones that I didn't love the first time,
and then you know, two or three watches later, I go,

(01:09:26):
how did I not absolutely love this movie? And you know,
the most recent one, the French Dispatch, was like that
for me. I've watched the first time, I kind of
went on, I didn't love it, and then I've watched
it since and I absolutely love it. So just so
everybody listening knows what total like Wes Anderson nerds we are.
We're in Houston in November of last year and I
said to you we were on the range and say, hey,

(01:09:47):
did you know that Um Rushmore was filmed here in
river Oaks around the corner of the school. And You're like, no, way,
I'm going I did. I did? Absolutely what if? I
hope hopefully my wife can't hear me telling this story,
because she's just gonna shake her head and say, God,
you're a loser. Um listen, man, I I think you're

(01:10:09):
doing an unbelievable job. And I just don't say this
because you know, you and I spend a lot of
time together. I think you are part of this kind
of next generation of people that will be a fabric
of of of golf for the viewers and for all
the fans. And um, I can't I can't think of

(01:10:29):
a better person to do the job because of all
the stuff that you did. And hey, hats off to
Tommy Roy. I don't think Tommy Roy gets enough credit
for taking a chance on you and bones to throw
you guys into the situation. UM, I think we're all
lucky to have that opportunity. UM, I'm gonna look forward
to uh seeing you and uh we you gotta teach

(01:10:49):
me how to play guitar anytime. C h. Thanks for
saying that. And I think that I think the world
of you as well. I just I think, uh, you
have an understated quality to you as a teacher. There's
a lot of egos out there. I think that that's
pretty special out there. And um, I just I think
the world. I love hanging out with you and I'm
so glad we finally got to do this. This will uh,

(01:11:12):
this will be a good one for all the Wes
Anderson fans. I love it. I'm gonna tag Wes Anderson
when when we post this. Nice there we go. Great
to talk to you you two c H Thanks buddy.
So that was john Wood and one of, like I said,
one of the coolest guys that I've met out here
on the PGA Tour has got a great story. He's

(01:11:32):
doing a fantastic job at NBC Golf Channel and UM,
some really really good insights into what it takes to
carry the bag on the PGA Tour. So rather to
do questions this week, I wanted to talk about a
really cool experience I had last week. Um, I'm a
big Formula one fan. Had the F one race in
Miami last week and uh, Dustin Johnson and I got

(01:11:55):
to spend some time with two of the driver's Lando Norris,
who drives for McLaren and Carlos Signs, who drives for Ferrari.
And I mean you couldn't meet two bigger golf junkies
than these two guys. Um, it was so cool too.
I'm a huge fan of F one, UM have been
following it for years. I think everybody now is is
getting to see, um, what a cool sport it is

(01:12:17):
through the Netflix documentary. But to get an opportunity to
spend time with these guys, UM, having watched what they
do for a living. You know, they're driving cars at
over two hundred miles an hour. But at the end
of the day, UM, they're golfers. They love golf, they
love playing golf. Um DJ is brother Lando Norris, UM
Caigo the DJ. We all went out to the grove

(01:12:38):
Michael Jordan's course and played. And you know, Lando has
only been playing golf about two years, and he got
into playing golf through his relationship, UM, both professional and
his friendship with Carlos Science, who drives for Ferrari. So
he's only been playing for about two years. I posted
UM a video on my Instagram story really really a
good golf swing, but just so unbelievably hard on himself.

(01:13:03):
I mean, if he hit a bad shot, you could
just see Lando is just beating himself up. And you know,
one of the things that I tried to talk to
is listen, get the ball in playoff, the team, the
big thing. Like a lot of players and like a
lot of you that are listening. Even though these guys
can drive, you know, race cars over two hundred miles
an hour. They still struggle with the same things that

(01:13:24):
everybody struggles with. I think with both of them, both
Lando and Carlos, the driver is an issue right there.
Iron game was pretty good. Um. One of the reasons
why I think they struggle a little bit with the drivers.
The driver swing tends to get a little bit long,
a little bit loose, and then the quality of the
strike gets compromised. Um. Lando can hit it. You know,
he can hit some really really good drives, and then

(01:13:46):
he can hit some drives that you know aren't so good. Um.
I was impressed with his iron game. Um. His putting
stroke looked really really good. Carlos Sciences is much more. Uh,
he's got much longer time in sport. I think he's
been playing, you know, going on ten years now. Um.
He he hits the golf ball really really well. Um.

(01:14:07):
But both of them, I think struggle with a lot
of the same things that that those of you that
are listening struggle with. Contact. You hear me talk about
it all the time, and that's kind of what I
talked to them about, was Listen, these were some of
the things that you can do to clean up the
quality of the strike to clean up that contact. And
if you can control what's happening when you hit the
golf ball, you can hit the golf ball a lot

(01:14:28):
more solid. But it was a really cool day. It
was fun to watch, um. You know, their reaction to
watching Dustin Johnson hit a hit a drive or or
hit a long iron. I mean, they were just blown away.
Lando told me that when they're racing in Europe, UM
he stays up, believe it or not, to watch the
golf UM that's being televised. He said, sometimes he's staying

(01:14:49):
up till two three in the morning, but he said
he just absolutely wouldn't miss it at all. And I
know Carlos Science, massive, massive fan of golf, constantly watching golf. UM,
they knew was much about golfers as you know that
thus those of us that are fans of S one
know about the drivers. So it was kind of cool
to watch both of them kind of you know, we're
trying to pick their brain about F one and they're

(01:15:11):
trying to pick our brain about golf. But it was
a really, really, really cool experience. UM, to get an
opportunity to to spend time with, you know, two guys
that you know what do you do for living? I drive, UM,
I drive from McClaren in Formula one, and Carlos I
drive for Ferrari in Formula one. I mean to me,
that's got to be one of the coolest jobs on
the planet Earth to say that you were a Formula

(01:15:32):
one race car driver. So UM. But it was really
really fun to to just have a day to where
you could just try and help them with their golf
swing and UM. During the course of the day some
of the stuff that you know, both DJ and I
were trying to get both of them to do. UM.
When they did it, you know, that was that Eureka
moment that that keeps everybody coming back. And Carlos said that, UM,

(01:15:53):
you know, he hit a couple of really good shots,
and he was like, you know, that's what I love
about this game. Doesn't matter how bad I play, I
hit a couple of really the good shots and it
keeps me coming back. We played eighteen holes, like I said,
with with Lando at the Grove and he and Cargo
were no joke. It's it's four o'clock. DJ set it
up for them to go to the Bears Club, which
is another course that he's a member at and they
went straight from playing eighteen holes to going and and

(01:16:16):
trying and I think they played until dark. So golf
junkies easy to root for. If you haven't you know,
if you're not watching f one, watch it. If you
haven't seen the Netflix UM Drive to Survive, definitely watch that.
They're doing the same thing out here right now on
the PGA Tour, so you all will will be kind
of able to see kind of the ins and out
of what goes on out here on the PGA Tour.

(01:16:36):
But really really cool for me, I'm a fan, and
it was a really cool week to get an opportunity
to spend time with those guys. UM. Thanks everyone for listening. Uh,
we're gonna have some really good guests coming up of
course with Claude Harmon comes to you every Wednesday. We
will see you next week. Two

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Josh Martin

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