Marina Alex Interview: The importance of her second LPGA Tour win, how big events help grow the women’s game and the core differences between the PGA and LPGA Tours

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hmm. This episode of of Course with Claude Harmon comes
to every Wednesday. It's the one year anniversary of the
podcast launch. Last year we launched with Mel Read and

(00:21):
this week, as it's Women's US Open Week, we're going
to have Marina Alex, recent winner on the LPGA Tour.
I just want to take a quick second and thank everybody,
UM for listening to the podcast. I mean, it's been crazy, UM.
I gotta be honest. I never thought that UM I'd
be doing a podcast. I never thought people would listen. UM.
But I just can't thank everybody enough for supporting and listening.

(00:45):
It's been really one of the cool things UM that's
happened to me in my UM golf career. And to
have the opportunity to UM interview all the people that
we've interviewed over the last year. If you haven't gone back,
if you're new, we've got so many great interviews, so
ease go back and listen. But this week Marina Alex,
I work with her. She's really really a cool kid,
UM big big win having won in four years, got

(01:08):
her second win on the LPGA Tour UM not long ago,
and she's got a really really interesting story and gets
into a lot of cool stuff. So I think everybody's
going to enjoy the interview. But before we get to that,
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(02:13):
that's code off course for one dollars off at rap
sodo dot com backslash off course. So now let's get
straight to the interview with Marina Alex. All Right, my
guest is a two time winner on the LPGA. You
just won your second LPGA event in four years. Marina,

(02:37):
how did you get it done? What was it like
getting back into the winner circle after you know, a
four year drought? Um? Well, I mean you know you've
even watching the past year. Um, how did we get
it done with together? You and I? Uh no, seriously, Um,
it was a weird four years. I mean I think
I said this a few times. COVID was weird for

(02:57):
everyone kind of just put the brakes on golf. And
then once I got started, I got hurt and how
to put the brakes on golf again for pretty much
a full year, and so at that point I was
out of it competitively. Um, my swing was a little
bit of a mess, My back was a bit of
a mess. So how to basically figure out how to
get back to where I was? And it took a

(03:19):
lot of little trial and error figuring it out. But
then I met you, and here we are. You mentioned
your swing, and you know a whole a whole new me.
You mentioned COVID kind of knocking you backwards. I think
everybody has experiences that put you actually were trying to
do things during COVID to help yourself get better. You
were trying to work out more. You're trying to do

(03:41):
a bunch of stuff, and it's stuff that you normally
don't do, and it's stuff that your body really didn't
like you doing. I mean, well, when you're not really
golfing every day and you're just like, okay, working out whatever,
you don't really realize the toll that it may or
may not be taking on your golf shape, which is
a whole other thing that I think people don't quite
get what that is. I mean you laugh at like

(04:03):
John Daily, right, or some people that play that they
don't seem like they're in shape, but they're in shape
for golf. Like the muscles that they need to use
to play golf are strong and they work, and when
you don't work those out and you do other stuff,
it kind of makes you out of golf shape. And
I was very quickly and then I jumped right back
into it traveling playing and I just completely jacked on

(04:24):
my back. That's crazy, though, because you're trying to do
things to get in better life and physical shape really good,
You're getting got the beach body like it would have
been like I could take, you know, a selfie in
a bikini and post didn't feel good about it. I
mean it didn't, but I could have. And then I
was like, but my golf shape was awful, and I

(04:48):
mean that's the most important thing at the end of
the day. It's interesting. I mean we are in an
age to where everybody's you know, working out as fashionable,
you know, trying to get in shape. You see, your
golfers are athletes, you know, certainly the PGA Tour, you know,
it seems like everybody's got a trainer, everybody's traveling with one.
But you still have guys, like you said, like John Day,
guys like Shane Lowry who don't necessarily fit the athletic

(05:14):
model of what it is, but they're doing things on
a regular basis that help them and their body. When
you say there's a difference between physical shape and what
you're trying to do in the gym to get better
at you know, getting stronger and then golf shape, to you,
what's the difference. I think the difference is the combination

(05:37):
of strength and then mobility and flexibility. So like for
me in COVID, let's say I'm working out. You know,
I'm running, I'm doing I don't know, I was doing yoga,
I was doing all sorts of like peloton, strength lifting.
All that could have made me either hyper mobile in
some ways where I'm over flexible, which is not great
for golf if you have too much too much flexibility,

(05:59):
or I was not flexible enough. I don't really know.
And like all of those rotational moves that you know
you do day in and day out, I wasn't really
doing because and I also wasn't really going to the
range that much. You know, when you're like, okay, your
next tournament is going to be in four months, are
you are you going out to grind? Like no, You're like, okay,
I'm going to take this as a mental break, which
it was. It was great, But then I just like

(06:19):
completely lost track of just the simple, you know, correct
exercises like activations, stretching my hammy, stretching my hip flex ers,
you know, working on my lower back muscles, like all
those things that I would do normally every day when
I'm on the road or at home. And I just
was like, ya, can't be bothered. So basically you became

(06:41):
like a regular recreational golfer. Right, you're going to the
range and hit hitting thirty balls to play, working out
for life and for fitness, doing things like I was like, oh,
we're carrying our clubs and walking eighteen holes and like
having a nice time. Like April, no one's doing anything,

(07:02):
but like I would never carry my back. You never
do that. And it's interesting that because I think people
there are a lot of times and I think you know,
the guys um you know, certainly guys on the PGA tour, um,
the girls on the LPGA tour, everybody is more conscious
of the body swing connection. Right, you know what, you
know the limitations you have in your body. But it's

(07:25):
interesting the lockdown, you were doing things that a fifteen
twenty handicapper that watches you on TV doing, They don't
necessarily they're not doing anything golf specific, right, they don't
know what their limitations are. They don't know what their
body can and can't do. Right, you obviously know what
your body can do, but you're just basically doing yoga.

(07:47):
You're doing all of this stuff that's gonna help you,
but none of the stuff that you were doing good
for golf. No, not really, and a little bit was like,
I think ignorance of that because you know, okay, I've
been playing off my whole life. Most of us have.
You would never think that tuning it off for whatever
a month, two months could make that much of a
difference or an impact. But it definitely did. And that

(08:09):
was kind of like my mistake of not really recognizing
that element of like how quickly your body can forget
doing things or needs to retrain to do things, and
then it takes time to build up that you know,
muscle memory, like the neurological connection between like how to
fire certain muscles and do all that that you need
to do for golf. It's like such a very you know,

(08:32):
back of your body sport. You know, you need your scaps,
you need your glutes, you need your hamstrings, you need
all of that, and a lot of what we do
on a day to day life is very front dominated.
You know, quads hip flexors like and all those things
don't help your golf because you get pushed forward and
you really want to be working to like feel like
you're using the backside of your body. So when you

(08:53):
don't work on it all the time. It's you're my
body wants to forget how to do it completely, and
that was a pretty costly mistake. And then also over
the last you know, two or three years, you've been
plagued with some some pretty serious back issues and that contributed.
I think you know what what happened to hurt your
back initially? Was it? Was it something something off the golf,

(09:17):
really silly, I was picking. I've always had a kind
of like I would say, like a fickle time with
my back where I'd go through bouts of not feeling great,
but everything would be a few days, you know, three
or four days, and then I would feel like back
to normal. And a lot of it's related to like
my pelvis stability. I get off in certain areas and
then like my like I get rotated and twisted, and

(09:38):
then that applies like too much pressure to my lower back,
and like if you play on that for extended periods,
then you run into problems. But I had come back
from I think it was the British Open. We were
playing at Truon. I believe I wasn't feeling good that
week and I came home. I was in Nashville, I
went to Whole Foods and I picked up a girl

(10:00):
three bag off the floor and I couldn't couldn't walk,
couldn't walk for like four or five days, sat on
the couch, um did whatever drugs the tour doctor prescribed
me to do, and then I flew out to A
and A and I played UM the next week because
it was a major and I didn't want to miss it.
And then I was I was done after that UM,

(10:20):
and that was a bad year. Problems, yeah, and I um,
you know, I thought, oh, it'll be a week or two,
like I'll be back, you know, at most, and then
it was like getting longer and longer. And the tough
part is, you know, I was looking at US. Okay,

(10:43):
good thing is US opening was rescheduled to December of
that year and we're still a tour championship. And I'm
like at that point, it was September and I'm like,
I can be ready for that, no problem, I'll get ready,
Like I'll be fine, I'll slow down, I'll take my time.
And I tried to get ready and I just went
backward again, and then that ultimately forced me to sit
out you know, Diamond Resorts Tournament Champions which was a bummer.

(11:06):
Like there were things that like if I had just
been a little bit more patient, um, and not that
I didn't listen to the people around me. I did.
I just was like, in my head, there's no way
it's going to take this long. There's just no way.
I didn't want to believe that at all. And I mean,
I kind of learned a little bit the hard way,
but I'm but I feel like it was a good

(11:27):
learning lesson and like my lifestyle habits have changed completely.
When Bryson had his um hand surgery recently, I saw
that he had hand surgery and I sent him a
message and we were just talking back and forth and
he was like, you know, I'm frustrated. You know, I
want to get going again. And I sent a message
I said, just remember there's no athlete in history that's

(11:47):
come back from an injury too long. Everyone comes back
from an injury. And when you wore injury, you said that.
I mean, you've got people around you, they're trying to
tell you what to do and everything, but the fleet
mentality is, Okay, you know, I've got these tournaments to play.
This is my job. When we you know, is it

(12:08):
hard as an athlete when you're trying to do this
as a profession to think of the long term as
opposed to this. And and I also have a like
and I think it's a mentality of myself where I
don't like using it as an excuse for something that
you can or cannot do, like just go out and
you know, work around it like practice, like you know.
And I've always kind of been a little bit that way.

(12:30):
Probably not a good thing in the long term because
I I flirt with that line of like maybe playing
through something that if I had just taken a few
days off, it would have like really reduced my problem.
But I don't. I just don't like saying like I'm like,
I don't feel good, I don't want to do it.
So um, that was a struggle for me, like to

(12:52):
sit there and like use it as a reason that
I shouldn't be doing something, you know. But with it back,
it's tough. You really just need to rest because everything
we do on a day to day is very spine related.
Even stupid things like doing my laundry is like a
horrible posture. And like, you know, my pts were like
just you know, I have like one of those um grabbers,

(13:15):
I'm still in my house, like to grab stuff off
the floor instead. Yeah, like doing the dishes, unloading a dishwasher.
Even brushing your teeth is like a bad angle to
be because you're like down here like this. And so
there were a lot of things that I was like, whatever,
it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. But when you just
don't listen to your body, um, it pays back in

(13:38):
a negative way. Usually. You mentioned in the press conference
after you Want a couple of weeks ago that there
was you were thinking it maybe about you know, you're
in your early thirties, how much longer do I want
to keep playing? How much longer can I keep playing?
And you mentioned that you thought about you have had
faults about maybe doing something else other than playing professional golf. Yeah,

(14:00):
and I and I do I think injury um, like
you you put that aside. I do think and I
think this last couple of months though, is maybe put
um what I would have thought as the next phase
of my life maybe a little bit further down the
road now. Um. But no, there are a lot of
other things that I'm interested in, and I don't think
that like I don't want to call it like a

(14:21):
one trick pony. But I don't feel like golf is
like the only thing that I'm I want to do
and I want to be successful at. So yeah, there
are other things I'm going to do after this, but
I think it's just going to be a little bit
longer now. I Mean, the obvious question is what are
the what are the things? What are the things that
you would like to do when your golf career. I mean,
I love, um, I love golf. I don't want to

(14:43):
be out of golf. But I think that I'm pretty
passionate about where our tour and women's golf is at
and where it could be. And that's the avenue that
I'm going to go next. UM. I don't know exactly
what it's going to be as far as what the
next step would be, but I want to see your

(15:04):
game grow. I would love to see something like a
President's Cup become a team event with a guy and
a girl, UM, and that that like, and I need
to figure out the plan for how do I get
you know, how do I get that to happen? What
what in between phases? It's it's not different than golf, really, right,
Let's say you have you know, short term goals and

(15:25):
then like a long term goal of where you want
your career to be. What, um, you're right struggling down
the wrong We don't need hold your course, you do
hurt makes me play? But yeah, so every you plan

(15:47):
out a little like you know, in between steps to
make something happen. And I don't think it's any different
in in a career that's not you know, that's not
sports or it's not result related. You know, you have
to say, okay with my my tenure goal is this,
Like let's say I would love to run a mixed
team President's Cup, Like that would be amazing, but you
don't just start that tomorrow. So it's like what are

(16:08):
the little in between phases that can get that to
become a reality. And that's the planning that I kind
of have to do and networking and taking you know,
maybe just working on a project, you know, just for
fun even while I'm playing, like you know, observe how
something like a Solheim Cup is run, or observe how

(16:29):
um people run tournaments like stuff like the match Like
there are different things that you know you can learn
along the way, and then it's just getting in touch
with the right people and actually making that leap. But
that would be something I would really love to do.
You mentioned kind of a joint President's Cup team with
the men's and when you and I joke all the time,
and when I'm on the European I mean, I'm on
the PGA Tour a lot, and we joke all the

(16:50):
time about the massive differences between the PGA Tour and
the LPG. I really want them to do like a
day in the life segment and just take like one
of the guys, take one of the top ten players,
guys that you know. I mean, hey, they make a
ton of money, They fly private, they rent houses, they
have chefs, they have all of these things. Yeah, I

(17:13):
just want to throw them in like one of our
events that are not necessarily like a major or doesn't
have all the glitz and glands. Give me an event.
I don't want to. I don't want to throw our
events under the bus, but um, there are a couple
events that probably need a little sprucing up, and um,
I would love to throw them out there for a
week and to see how what do you think a

(17:34):
top ten player in the world's gonna do? From the
PGA Tour when he comes to a tournament, just for instance,
and you know, we played at will Share a couple
of weeks ago. Great place. Great, of course, it's tiny.
There was no club trailer because they couldn't park it anywhere,
and no fitness trailer. So I would love to see
someone show up for a week. Can't get your clubs,

(17:55):
re grip, can't get any new equipment, can't go work
out unless you want to like squeeze into the Wilshire
Club fitness trailer with everyone else in the physios. Yeah,
that would be fun. I would love to see how
that would work out. Honestly. There will be people listening
to this first world probably, but what they don't realize is,
I mean if we look at you know, during the lockdown, um,

(18:18):
someone posted the workout facilities for the Was it the
women's N double N double a versus what the men?
It was like a couple of free weights. It's like
a bad hotel jam it was. It wasn't human. It's
like a days in It wasn't. And then they had
like I think like forty five pieces of Olympic equipment
and for the men's and the women's ad. Because I mean,

(18:39):
you know, in the age of social media, there have
been players, you know that have come out from the
LPGA Tour that have talked about, you know, the difficulties,
you know, the massive gulf between the amount of money
that is being you know earned and thrown at you know,
the PGA Tour and we look at the LPGA Tour
and we look at shoot. I mean it's huge, it's

(19:01):
h huge. I mean the majors, I have to say
this year, especially last year, it's started, but um that
gap is starting to get bridged, which is great and
it should. I mean, you look at tennis is a
perfect example. And I know that they play at the
same venues and so the TV blocks are the same time,
but they compete for the same money. And I don't

(19:22):
think that that is the case in the week to
week events, but for the Grand Slams they do. And
I think that it's a great It's it shows great
progress that that our majors are starting to the persones
are the US Open right, we're I think we're just
under ten million. UM first place prize is close to two.

(19:43):
If it's not too I think it might be UM
Our Tour Championship were playing for the winner winning check
is I think this year to five and the rest
and then it's like a fifty player field. For the
rest of that is like a five million dollar purse,
which is huge. Um. The British went up, Um, Evian's
gone up kpmg Um. They kind of started. They set

(20:04):
the bar PG of America did with better venues. Um.
Just putting on like a world class golf tournament. I mean,
it is a major, you know, and it's a trickle
down effect like the other events are going to have to,
you know, follow suit. I feel like and we and
we are, We're seeing it. It It just it doesn't happen overnight,
but it's definitely getting better what you want how much

(20:24):
for winning in Palas forties a couple of weeks ago,
And I can't complain about that because there was that
at all on the PGA Tour. You play in a
w g C and finished twenty you're probably making Yeah,
I know. I think I read somewhere something somewhere. There
was one year a guy played like one hole in

(20:46):
with Drew to get last place money and it was
like eighty five thousand dollars and I was like, oh
my gosh, so that could be a month in the
road of good golf, and I'm making eighty five thousand dollars. Maybe.
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for HR talent time, benefits, payroll and people. And now
let's get back to the interview, so there will be
people listening to this that say, listen, the reason why
the money isn't there in the women's game is because
people aren't watching. The numbers aren't the same as the

(21:52):
revenue that the guys bring in. So as a sport,
as you know somebody involved in it, what are some
idea is that you think that can bring more eyeballs
to the LPG, Because I think that's something that we hear,
We hear that year after year after how do we
get more people's quauseiating conversation if I'm being honest, because

(22:12):
it's like the same thing over and over again. UM,
I think there are a couple of things, you know,
we need to look at a how we're presenting our
product on whether it's Golf Channel or NBC or CBS.
We we desperately need more investment in that. We need
more cameras. You know, you look at what, um the
production crew and the cameras and everything that goes into

(22:35):
a regular PGA tour event. Is it easily double to
triple the investment level of an LPG event. So you know,
if you only have five or six cameras, how much
golf can you actually capture? Filling in a lot of
idle time. And it's no one's fault other than the
fact that we're just there's just not enough money being
put into that side of it to create a more

(22:56):
exciting product to watch, because I mean want to watch
the leaders, but there are so many other things happening
on the course. You know, it's fun to flash to
a guy holding out for an eagle or chipping in
here or hitting a crazy shot out of the water.
I don't know. Maybe you're trying to watch someone make
the cut on Friday, Like there's some excitement there where

(23:18):
you watch a guy hold a put to save par
or Birdie to sneak in the cut line. Like people
want to like gravitate to seeing things that matter. Yeah,
and when you just don't have enough opportunity to show
the story, then you know there's there's not a lot
to give anyone, Um, and you end up seeing a
lot of repetition. You see a lot of the same
players over and over again, and I just feel like

(23:40):
then no one's story is being told. Um, you know, people,
let's say you throw someone I'm gonna just I don't
want to name any names, but let's say you just
get you know players middle of the Range LPGA and
you know she's about to make the cut and it's meaningful.
Let's say you know her making the cut gives are
an opportunity to qualify for a major championship next week.

(24:04):
Like that's something that people would for thirty seconds, they
would like to hear that. You know the fact that
we can't even provide that is not It's not great.
It just doesn't give a lot of depth. And that's
where we need to do a better job just showing
more players more stories like make and that's where we
are on tour. I feel like you need to do
a better job of like profiling some of our players

(24:24):
and like putting some content out there that is not
just um, yeah, everyone has a story, doesn't need to
necessarily be something insane, right, But I think that if
you are just telling other players stories to the fan base,
like they can maybe find something that they can relate to,
and then they'll root for you and then they'll tune in.

(24:45):
Like it's just little stuff. It all kind of falls
together when we um when the Honda was in Town
and and and West Palm Beach. You came out and
we walked around, you know, eighteen holes And do you
know when you go to a PGA Tour event, even
as a spectator and walking around, does it does it
feel like it's a completely different planet than what you guys?

(25:06):
And the Honda is a different planet in general, because
you know the way they set up the bear trap
and I mean, we weren't there for bear trapping, but
I've been there for bear trapping. You're not a rookie.
When it comes to off course bear trapping, I've had
some fun there. But and but that's like an environment
that's just it's insane because yes, it's golf, but it's

(25:27):
also sheer entertainment. And that's at the end of the day,
like we're playing a sport, but we're also supposed to
entertain the masses of people. Like that's where the revenue
comes from. And we just need to be a little
bit more creative in our in our ways of entertaining.
Like I would love like to have seen this week
they're playing the match play in Vegas. I thought it

(25:48):
would have been cool, you know, put everyone on a cart,
throw a GoPro on there, get some live feed like
stream that on the LPG dot com. You don't even
need to like pay much for that. That's relatives. Do
you think there would be players that in an effort
to try and get the op G a more eyeballs?
Do you think there would be players and players that

(26:08):
the public knows that want to watch, that would be
willing to get miked up, that would be willing to
We've tried it. Um, we did do some miking up
a couple of years ago. Before COVID. You know, players
would ask it's it's tough, I know, because you're like
in the moment and you're competing. Um. So I see
the catch twenty two and then some girls don't mind it.

(26:30):
Some girls mind it very much. Like for me, that
would be a liability. I feel like a fine that
would be a fine waiting to happen, because like I
would slip up and say something on the mic that's
like that would be like here, here's a check for
five thousand dollars, or right as a check for five
thousand dollars, you just drop like four F bombs and
you can do they find on the if you're caught, yeah,
if they can hear you, yeah, or if someone turns

(26:53):
you in for turning. Sometimes people complain for vulgar language
or bad contact. I don't know, but but it's it's happened.
People have been fine for inappropriate unprofessionalism, and however you
want to say, it's usually dis cursing um, which I
don't mind because I feel like it adds character and

(27:15):
like people can relate to that. Because when your average
Joe goes out to play golf, he's not happy with
his game. Almost the entire day, so you know, is
a club toss and an F bomb or whatever. I
am notorious for breaking things like instantly if I lash out,

(27:36):
like it happens like once every five years, and it
always results in something being broken. I haven't quite figured
out a method until like I just stopped it. Like college,
I broke a couple of clubs um and it would
you know, I actually broke my cell phone in Singapore
this year. Hit the bag, didn't realize where I put
the phone, shattered it. I didn't even hit it very hard.

(27:58):
I was just pissed veal chip and then I got
off the course. I'm like, this is this is going
to cost me a thousand bucks. I'm in Singapore, my
phone is broken. I'm playing bad and my check this
one's gonna be like four grand at a quarter of
it is going to a new iPhone, Like I'm in
the hole. We've heard again going back to this, We've

(28:20):
I mean, there have been a lot of you know,
because social media now people can tell their stories, there
have been a lot of you know articles written. I mean,
Danielle talked about this. You know, daniel Kane who I've
had on the podcast. She's one of the best players
in the world. Danielle doesn't have to worry about money,
but she was she she she mentioned, listen, you can
go to tournaments and lose money. Oh yeah, that's that's common.

(28:43):
And I think that, um, you know, my train of
thought on it is going back to the TV. You know,
if the product was um allowed girls to have like
a higher stock value in them for themselves, like if
they were on television more. Um, I think that it
makes endorsements more. It makes more sense for companies to

(29:07):
want to endorse girls and put logos on them if
they are getting something for that, which is add time,
television time, you know. Um so, and that I feel
like is where it really is a struggle in the
LPGA because some girls just don't have sponsors. They don't
have any starting money to help them, no support, no support,

(29:29):
you know, put the purses aside. Um. If you don't
have some cushion to get going for that year, it
is really tough to play, Like your your backs against
the wall from the beginning. If you were to play
a full say you're fully exempt on the LPG tour,
you're that would mean you're probably going to play how
many times let's say, um, are you including majors, are

(29:51):
not including majors, not including major We'll say you get
your LPGA Tour card and you've got full status. Is
enough events now that I feel like, um, you you're
plan about two events to twenty two events and so
there you're saying, there are girls on the LPGA tour
that are going out that have basically they're they're self
funding pretty bare minimum. Yeah, they might have some stuff,

(30:12):
but I mean, I don't know people's individual situations with
their sponsors, but I mean, you know, it's not uncommon
to talk about, hey, this is worth fifteen grand, or
this is this logo position is worth twenty dollars and
if you only have to let's say you have thirty
grand to start the year. I mean, expenses are k

(30:34):
caddy every week, flights every week, flights every week, Um,
you know, hotels if you're if you're really good, like
you stay in a lot of housing, which I did
when I first started my first few years, Like I
tried to maybe do a third of the year um
with people who would offer to have players stay with them,
because it seems like one of the things it's way

(30:55):
more prevalent on the LPGA tour than the PGA tour
is UM families that you know that are at the event,
and we have some amazing communities, like the community gets
behind the siss and come welcome you into our Like
the first one that comes to my mind is Arkansas
when we play well, it's northwest Arkansas was formerly Walmart. UM,
that community is amazing. I mean I would say at

(31:17):
least half of the girls and caddies, UM, we'll stay
with people in the community because the course is right there.
You know, everyone's got a golf cart and you know,
the barbecues. It's it's super communal and they love having
us there and we we have some like Dallas is
another one. UM. The place we play, the Colony another
very similar vibe. Lots of girls stay with families right

(31:40):
around the golf course. They love us being there. So
that helps UM. But no, in reality, I think that
if girls had more to start with UM and and
it felt like it was a value for companies to
be branded with these women, I think that you know,
it allows girls to compete and play and then you know,

(32:02):
the purse is the purse and the paychecks are the paychecks.
But at least you don't feel like every week that
you're not playing, you're absolutely just dying inside financially, because
that's not a good feeling. And also, I mean, i've
I've talked to girls that have played on the LPG
it when before COVID, when there is the Asia Swing,
you talked to girls and say, listen, I'd love to

(32:24):
go go play those three events in Asia. I just
can't afford to go spend the money to go travel
to go play Singapore. So we and and those tournaments
are great as a player, you know, your air face
covered and your hotels covered, but then don't forget you
gotta get your caddy there um. And in the COVID years,
you know, players had to help supplement those guys hotels

(32:46):
because we would all have to be in the hotel
because we weren't allowed to stay anywhere other than whatever
their official hotel was, and we couldn't room share because
of COVID and COVID testing. So you know, you're telling
a caddy this hotel, rooms a d and twenty bucks
a night, and that's probably even discounted, but you're there
seven nights, taxes whatever. That's almost his whole salary for

(33:07):
the week just in a hotel. Then if you're not
playing great, you know, and you're not and you have
taxes from that country and all of your other you know,
food expenses like whatever that case may be. You know, yeah,
you may look at it and be like, um, if
I don't finish at least top half of the field
every single week, I don't is it worth it? You know,
it's a long trip, um, And that's it's a shame

(33:30):
because they're great tournaments. But that's where again, you know,
purses in some of these instances really need to go up.
Well yeah, I mean when after Scotty Scheffler won the Masters,
they posted um of something on social media on his
caddy Teddy Scott and Jennifer Cupto was just one an
a and just want to make me chevron and yeah,

(33:52):
I was leading our money list. And projection is based
off of what caddies you know, probably what the percentage
Scott Caddy Firs, Scotty Shufflers making more than number one
on LPG money list as of um yeah, April five,
April thirteen. Whenever the massive ended Listen, we're laughing about this,
but there's always the joke that there are there are

(34:13):
PGA Tour caddies, where the joke is the caddy made
it to Eastlake. Patty would have been one of the
players that would have qualified money wise to play at
the Tour Championship in Atlanta at Eastlake, the Austin Austin
Johnson being one of them. Whoever is winning tour championship
with the men that caddy is winning the LPG money

(34:35):
list for sure absolutely, Um, but no, and there's some
great you know, like I said before, us Open first
places up Sey for years, they've been our leading um
as far as purse goes the solo first place prize,
they've been They've been a front runner for years. Um,
Terry Duffie and see Amy, they did it. They've done

(34:56):
a great job. You know. Million it was started as
million million five too, and I do think this year
it's to five, which is crazy, that's like unheard of
for us. So obviously it's easy to talk about, you know,
the things in the women's game that could change and
you know could use you know, investment development. But in two,

(35:16):
what do you what do you love about the LPGA Tour?
What do you what do you love about playing on
the LPGA Tour. I as a golf paris in me.
I absolutely love our major venues, Like I love that
the direction that that is going, that we're no longer
getting like good courses that are maybe like A minus
or B plus list golf courses, like we're now getting

(35:38):
the A and the A plus. You know, we're playing
um Congressional Pine Needles is next week. We're going to
Merefield this year, which is incredible. Next year we're playing
Baltic Stroll and Pebble Beach. I'm not positive where the
Women's British is next year, but I mean that Champions
I mean in Houston, you know, see I think is
that where we're going first? That was a couple of years. Yeah,

(36:00):
but it was moving Chevron somewhere to Houston and it's
either going to be Champions Club or there's some talks
of some other places. But it's just good to see
that we are getting the same courses that the guys
are getting because I also think that helps build our
brand as well. You know, when you people love watching majors, right,
they love they have memories of shots that good or bad,

(36:21):
you know, of like even something like we play Carnewski
last year. Is that Jean Vanderbilt. Yeah, like you, that
will never be forgotten. And when you know, girls go
play they can. It's comparable to the men in the
sense that, hey, they're just as good playing the same courses.
I mean, granted were playing our relative tease, but scores

(36:42):
are better. You know. Olympic Um, you guy, I think
shot a bit of a better score than web Simpson
did to win. And you know, it's it's that's important
for us. I think also a lot of you know,
when we look at the men's tour, if we look
at the major championships, there's always big talk about, as
you mentioned, where they're being held, and then when they
go back to so let's let's say, when you go

(37:03):
back to Shinnecock, right, there have been so many open people.
Remember they talk about retief Goosen. I believe that's what
the US Open this year and then Brooks you know,
they go back to like the previous champions Men's US
Open going back to Brookline this year. There's been a
tremendous amount of history there, Wryter Cups and things of

(37:23):
that nature. And I think you are right. I mean,
when when we look at the major championships, certainly on
the men's standpoint, and I don't think I would agree
with you. I don't think this is the case on
the women's there are the story during the course of
the week becomes as much about what's going on with
the players playing the golf course as it does the

(37:45):
golf course. The golf course is always you know, the
golf course is always here, so you know, justin Thomas,
just one at Southern Hills. But as the the tournament
kept going, as the rounds, you know, Thursday, right by
the time you get to the weekend, you're able to
kind of know which holes on the golf course, which

(38:06):
does which part of the design element of that golf
course is going to test the player. And I've never
thought about that, but a lot of the LPGA stuff,
you know, the majors that I have watched, there isn't
that history other than what they did out in Palm
Springs to where they kept it different and beyond it's
the same course every year Palm Springs, and it's it's
sad relieving. I mean, there's a lot of factors to that,

(38:28):
but that is comparable when you're you know, you're watching Augusta, right,
because you're seeing it every year. There's that connection of
the history. And but when you have these rotation of
major venues, you know for um US Opens and British
Opens and PGA Championships, um, it's it is cool to
have like something to go back to, like reference points

(38:50):
um in time. And I think that's what makes golf
like We're eventually going to play Marion, which the men
may have outgrown that golf course, but we definitely haven't.
There are a lot of venues I feel like that
will come back into the rotation for us because the
length is not totally the problem, and men's game has
gotten so so long that some of the courses they

(39:11):
just can't get them long enough anymore. And that is
like perfect for us because you know, we're still looking
at playing things between sixty six and sixty eight hundred yards,
which is great. Like that there that opens up a
ballpark of venues Riviera, I mean one of them were
playing a US Open there down the road. You know,
it's just cool, um. And I'm glad to see that

(39:33):
they're taking some just some initiative to like put us
on a better platform. I mean, one of the things
that a lot of people say about the LPG. They
love It's it's the it's very hard for the average
golfer who is a fifteen you know, at twenty handicap
to relate really to what you know, Rory mcaway does,

(39:56):
like Justin Thompson. But the game of the distant, the
way the golf courses are set up, and the golf
courses on the PGA Tour, specifically in majors. You know,
on the men's side, are are are brutal to play right,
they are. They are ridiculously you know, they stretch them out,
they narrow the fairways, you know, get the greens firm

(40:17):
and everything. But when you watch the women's game, I
think it is relatable because these swing speeds are similar
to a lot of people that play the sport and
play programs with guys and a lot of times we're all,
you know, approximately within ten to fifteen yards of each other,
and it's like that's the that's the game that most

(40:38):
people play. Um, you know, unless you're a former athlete
or you're extremely strong, like most recreational golfers are not
driving the ball three yards in the air. They think
they are, and if they are they're driving it off
the freaking planet, and otherwise they'd be on tour like
or have a chance to be on tour, but they're not.
So that's the one thing that I do people I

(41:01):
think people do enjoy that you could sit and watch
Jin Young Ko, who to me is probably one of
the most impressive female golfers, and Nelly is amazing and impressive.
But you put them side by side from a sweet
a swing speed standpoint, and you know how far they
hit it. Nellie does hit it pretty good way. I

(41:21):
mean she's effortless but powerful. Jin Young is just the
most efficient golfer I think I've ever seen. I mean,
doesn't make mistakes, amazing putter, hits every fairway in every green,
and you know, she's swinging it probably like she's she's
not out there moving the ball three yards. Yeah, when
we talk about distance, when we walked around the Honda

(41:44):
UM that day, and you know, really really difficult. One
of the things that I've talked to so I've said
this to so many players on the PGA tour, that
one of the comments that you made. You know, I
never would have thought about this. We were watching Um
the kid I teach garat Kego hits in a long
way and it was he was on the back nine,
So it was ten eleven, the twelfth hole at um

(42:04):
at PJ National bunkers onto the right, and so he
hit it in the bunker and he had a fairway
bunker shops kind of up against the lip. And I think,
if I remember correctly, he hit an eight iron, got
it on the green, had a chance for Bertie. And
you said that is one of the biggest differences between
the men's game and the women's game. And I looked
at you, I was like, what are you talking about,

(42:25):
like fairway bunkers. If I'm so, you know, the majority
of the girls on the LPGA tour were somewhat close
to the lip. There isn't we don't have enough speed
and power to get the ball to the green. And
and also you know, combined with the setup, like let's
say you're in that fairway bunker and your next shot
is a hundred and seventy yards in. That's a five

(42:47):
iron for me, right, um, that maybe a nine iron
for Garrett. So they get it over iron for him,
get it over the lip. I'm not launching the five
iron over the lip like I have to hit a
wedge out and then I have to wedge on the
green and try and save part. It's just that distance
and that, like you said, the launch factors, the span,
all that stuff, Like that's a huge gap and it's fascinating.

(43:09):
Like I'll sit and watch golf on TV and I'll like, um,
a couple of my friends are you know, like kind
of little golf nerds will be watching the mostly majors
and texting about it and we're like, I can't believe
that shot he just hit. And we would joke and
be like we'd be chipping outside ways like what over
the trees? Like I never look over the trees. I'm
looking under the trees every time, like what's my gap

(43:30):
to fit to the green? Over? No chance? I mean,
that is so funny because there are so many tournaments
that we go to on the PGA Tour and listen,
I've been lucky enough in my career to work with,
you know, some of the best players in the world
and players that have, you know, tremendous speed and tremendous power,
and there are holes to where you look at the
way the holes designed and you know, in the eight
years I worked with Brooks and you know, still work

(43:52):
with DJ. They'll just go, yeah, we just take it
over all that. We just fly it over all the
trees on the left and just and that's what makes
golf course set difficult, I feel like on the men's
game because there's just so much they can eliminate. Now,
Like I remember at Bell Reeve when Brooks won um
the pgat Bell Reeve, the eighteen pole was, you know,
it's a dog leg from right to left. You've got

(44:13):
to hit it down there and go that way. And
so we get to that hole and you know Brooks
at that, you know, he fades everything. And we were
looking at all of that and his caddy was like,
you know, you could hit a two iron, you could
hit your driving iron down there, and maybe you can
try and hook the three iron everything. And we were
in the practice around and Brooks said, all right, well,
let me just see if I can take it over
all the trees on the left, which you just you

(44:34):
know there's any five guys in the world that can
do that. But on the first one he hit it
down there and hit bombed it past all the bunkers
and fair We got down there and he had a
wedge when we got down into the fairway, and and
Ricky as caddy, said, Yeah, I mean because you try
and draw the three, would you could hit it in
one of these bunkers and then you missed the two
the driving iron. Now you've got a long shot in. Yeah,

(44:55):
just take it over all the trees. How many times
of course, Marino are you saying to your caddy? Yeah,
we just take it over all the trees. The trees,
all of them, totally three yards back into the fairway. Now,
women women have mastered the precision game of golf, and
men have mastered some combination of power and precision because

(45:15):
at the end of the day, okay, like Brooks can
do all that, but he still needs to be good
inside that hundred yard you know, if you're going to
capitalize and make the birdie, you still need to be
able to hit these delicate, like kind of very precise
shots from one hundred and fifty yards and in because
you are going to leave yourself maybe on like awkward
angles when you do stuff like that, it's not always

(45:36):
going to just be straight in the middle of the fairway.
So these guys have figured out how to hit all
these shots from the rough, um, get spin and then
make the pots. So it's it's different in a lot
of ways, but there are cool elements to like both
sides of the game. Is the power game in in
women's golf a massive, massive topic right now because certainly

(46:00):
on the men's game, you know, if you've got speed,
if you've got power, you are going to have chances
to win golf tops. As you said, the LPGA Tour
has historically and every time I go to an LPGA
Tour event, I am as you As you mentioned, I
am blown away at how precise and how straight the

(46:21):
majority of the women that I'm watching hit the golf ball. Yeah,
I mean fairy percentages are very high on our tour
um and and now it's become you know, girls hair
hitting it further and there's not really sacrificing much accuracy.
So we've lengthened our courses over the last Like I
was started on tour in and we're in two the

(46:45):
courses are longer that I know for sure. Um, some
of that's equipment related, some of that's just you know,
the fitness element. Girls are in better shape. They we
all are understanding so much more about golf. BN mechanics
that people just hit the ball further. Um. Yeah, it's
becoming a little bit more of a topic of conversation
of you know, at what point do we lengthen the

(47:06):
course so much that it's too much? Or is this
is this our new normal? Um? Because on the PGA Tour,
when when I'm out there, you know, I would say,
now there were more players that are bombing it, then
there are players that aren't correct, right, So it's it's normal.

(47:28):
You have like less Jim Furiic style golfers. So you
you play, you know, you you put a group together
on the PGA Tour and you throw you know, Rory
dj and John Roman the same group. They're all going
to hit the driver in the same spot but kind
of the same. Or there are there are there's certain

(47:49):
players on the LPGA Tour now distance wise that you
play or see the younger players that you see play
and see and just say, man, I'm just getting crushed here. Yeah, Lexi,
Nelly Maria Fosse just absolutely, I mean, she murders the
golf ball. There's I haven't played with her in a
group and maybe practice like once or twice, but I've

(48:13):
seen her in positions on the golf course and I'll
be like, that is just that could be seven yards
away from where I'm going to be in iron and
you're like, I've that thing on the green. Um, But yeah,
I know that there is something that's creeping in for sure.
I mean Brooke Henderson, you know, hits it quite a
long ways. Um. And I think as these girls get young,

(48:35):
and I was actually watching the n C Double A
last night the swings on these girls. I was like,
oh my gosh, if you took my college swing compared
to my swing now, it's laughable how different and horrible
my swing was in college relative to like what I've
been like to this point in my career. And I
see these girls and it's like perfect plane, tiny little

(48:58):
high draws, like the shot tracer is just unbelievable. And
I'm like, they're going to come on tour and just
you know, they'll be ready to go. So you're noticing
the same thing that we're noticing on the PGA tour
now in the in the women's game. You've been out
on tour now for a number of years. Um, you're
in your early thirties, so you're seeing, you know, a
new crop of players are you seeing. You know, coming
out of college transition is not being worried about courses,

(49:22):
no apprenticeship, not have to get used to winning the
whole like um rookie struggles of you know, just those
first few years of figuring it out and you know
maybe your game is not quite there, you need to
work on this, that and the other thing. I don't
I see much less of it. I see girls come
from college, they come from the j LPGA or the
klp G, A through Q school and they're just ready

(49:45):
to rock. They're like firing on all cylinders, you know,
they're like that girl win this year, and they usually
do What do you put that down to? Because I'm
trying to figure out, really I'm trying to intellectualize resources
and access on on the PGA tour. Seeing that you
know Matt Wolfe, Victor hovelnd, Colin Morric. Yeah, they were
amazing college players, right. I'll just but that jump from

(50:08):
being a great college player you played college golf at Vanderbilt.
The jump between being a good college player having success
in college and then immediately having that translate on the
professional game. We used to see some kind of gap.
But why do you think both on the men's and
women's side. Now the players are just turning pro, they're

(50:30):
coming out, is it. I see a lot more players
having opportunities to play in PGA Tour and LPGA Tour events. Um,
you know, it used to just be um for us.
It was Chevron that was like the highlight it was
at amateur. You know, there would be like five or
six girls, some of the top college amateur players. They
would get a spot in and they would play like
once a year in a major. Now I see it

(50:51):
a lot more where girls are getting you know, sponsor
invites a few of them throughout the year they're playing,
whether it's Semetric or LPG. They're getting a lot more
experience without the the i'm a professional golfer yet experience,
which is a big difference. Um. You know, I didn't
play in my first professional golf tournament until I was

(51:12):
a professional golfer. And you know, and you're playing that's
your now your livelihood, So that that I think has changed.
I mean, access to everything has changed. You know, we
didn't grow up playing golf with track man and and
the correct training like I wasn't until my last year
of college that we actually knew what tp I Certified
even really was, and we were we stopped doing like

(51:34):
barbel bench press and like dead, you know, squatting with
the bar on your back, realizing like we're all like
a hundred and ten pounds and like this is not
really conducive for golf. But you know, it's just like
the re education of like what is success? Right, And
you see all these people with these formulas. Yeah, they vary,

(51:55):
but a lot of them overlap a lot of the
same things, whether it's instruction in fitness, nutrition, you know,
all of that. And when you have access to that
at an early age, you're just going to get good fast.
And when you're good, you know, you have confidence. It's
really hard to stop someone from succeeding if they have
that confidence in that game. And I think these kids

(52:17):
come out feeling pretty confident. So we're talking about winning
golf tournaments. Let's I'm always fascinated when I talked to
players about the week that they win. Do you notice
now that you won twice and recently, you know, a
couple of weeks, is there anything that was different that
week mentally, physically, emotionally. I'm always trying to figure out

(52:41):
because it's that elusive thing that you're trying to get
into that state on a regular bay. But I have
always said that, you know, the majors that I've been
lucky enough to be a part of, I've been a
part of seven major championships on the PGA to every
single one of those that and I can't every single
one of those seven weeks. The player was different that week,

(53:05):
and I still you observe it and I can't. I
can't touch and feel what it is. Do you feel
that as a player totally? I don't. I couldn't give
you a real concrete answer as to what that intangible is.
But like a couple of weeks ago, um, it was.
The week was comfortable for me. Like I was staying

(53:26):
with a friend who I had known from childhood. Her
and I played golf together growing up in New Jersey.
Her husband was the head pro um at the course
down the street. I stayed with her. Um, you know,
it was really easy, cooked dinner, hang out like very
like there's like no stress to that week. So the
off course part of it was really really killed. That

(53:47):
matters a lot. I think when your off course gets
a little too chaotic, I mean, some people thrive on chaos,
and like I have noticed sometimes if I'm super stressed,
like I still find a way to play well because
it's like an outlet. But I think it exhausts you
to the point where maybe there's not enough left in
the tank at the end of the week because you're

(54:08):
dealing with too much crap, like externally. Um, So when
you can kind of manage that energy and you feel
like you're not putting too much into the prep and
too much into like, you know, even something as silly
as like how far is your drive? You know? I mean,
I stayed home for the Boca tournament, um, because it's
like it was like thirty nine forty minutes from my house,

(54:30):
and I just couldn't grasp my head around going down
there and staying in a hotel. But by the end
of the week, I was exhausted because I'm like on
the turnpike, you know, battling with people to drive back
and forth, and the days became long, and by the
weekend and I got off to a hot start and
I was there, but I had no gas left in
the tank. That's like the kind of stuff where if
you can manage, you know, the whole week of just

(54:51):
being very I think for me even field, like you know,
your input in your output are like the same, and
you kind of don't really get too fired up or
worked up about anything. Um that I noticed what has
been consistent with both times. I mean, and it's and
even weeks that I play well Like I noticed that
that's like a general theme. Um, comfortability is a big deal,

(55:14):
I think. And it's weird because the prior weeks to
both wins were like so opposite. You know, I come
off will share having a great weekend like snuck in.
I was like, oh, my game's feeling good, like I'm
going you know, I feel I feel excited going into
p V. I didn't know what the course is going
to be, like you know, new course. Um it was.

(55:36):
It's a cool course, very old old school course. Um.
And then you know, I think about Portland's week before
I missed the cut by like a mile in Canada,
putted horrendously left. I couldn't get out of there fast enough,
like flew to Portland's. Had myself a nice weekend like
eight you know, got coffees at my favorite shops, like
just reset myself, like and spent a lot of time

(55:58):
working on my putting and then boom, that was it.
First round, I shot like sixty two. But I think
it's funny that I don't think that a lot of
people realize that so much of what goes into performing
on the golf course, he's about what's going on off
the golf course, right, Yeah, they matter, you know, they matter.

(56:18):
You know, so when you wanted, you know, two thousand eighteen,
you you don't play good, but you go out to
Portland where you won the tournament. But you live a
little bit of kind of like a normal life. You
decompressed that you hang out and chill out, and it
puts you in a good frame of mind. It's a
reset button. And I love and I love the city
of Portland, like I mean, there's great places to eat,

(56:39):
you know, Like I had always loved that golf course.
Um so I think there was a lot of like
I was looking forward to being there. I I'm a
horrible at being at a place that I don't like
to be and playing well, Like it goes hand in
hand for me. Like if I'm like, I just don't
like this on this whole vibe is like not my jam.
It does like it's definitely subconscious, but it does affect

(57:01):
my performance, I think because I'm just not like excited
to be where I am. It's funny, I mean, we
see this all the time on the PGA tour. You'll
see guys missed the cut. You'll see him, you know,
taking themself. It's not even my game. I'm not even
worried about. You'll see them taking their stuff out of
the locker room and they'll be saying to their Canada
and they're like, I hate this place. I hate the

(57:21):
golf course. I don't I don't know why I come
back here. And then you have guys that historically Tiger
being one of them, the minute they even walk on
the grounds. You know, DJs like that at at Riviera,
he loves that place right, he's one there before. He
just absolutely loves it. And then you know there's certain

(57:43):
courses where guys are just like, I don't know why
I play here. I never played good here, I'm not
coming back here next year. And then they're there, and
then they're there. That's me. That's been me at Aviar
and I finally like have made the cut the last
two years, but prior to that, I missed I think
seven in straight cuts. But it's the week before. It
was always the week before um And and Chevron, so

(58:04):
it's like California. I'm like what, Like why can't I
just convince myself to skip this tournament? Like why? But
I can't. And I'm there and I'm miserable, and I'm
probably gonna miss the cut, probably gonna go in a
brewery tour on Saturday and Sunday and then I'll drive
over to pomp Springs. Like I got to the point
where I resided this, like the fact that I was
probably going to miss the cut, and then as soon

(58:24):
as I did that, I started making the cut. But
like the pressure just dropped and I was like so
tired of proving to myself that I had to tackle
this golf course. And I was like whatever, it's here,
like I'm checking it off the box, like it's it's
a start for the year, but like it's probably not
gonna be that great. And then I started flying better.
You shot sixty six in um In at Palace for

(58:48):
a days to win the tournament. Jin Young cos the
number one player in the world. She's right there on
the back. Nind Lydia co one of the huge stars
of the LPGA tour, um what was working that day
and how do you as a player or what are
the takeaways that you can take away from that to
try and get you into that state more often? I

(59:09):
think a little bit maturity, you know. When I would
be in those positions as a younger player, because they
were kind of a little few and far between. To me,
I felt like do or die, Like I either need
to step up here and like play good and like
show myself and show everyone else that like I can
do this on a Sunday kind of a deal and
it would backfire, you know. Um. But the more that

(59:31):
you get in those positions, like you kind of calm
down and it's it's gonna happen when it's not going
to happen, and some of it's in your control. Some
of it's not in your control at all. You know.
Other people's performances are absolutely not in your control. And
I then I started getting results where I would play
really good on Sundays and Okay, I'd come up short,

(59:52):
maybe I finished like second or third, but I the
confidence for me was like, hey, if fired three under
today or if fired four under today, Okay, it wasn't
good enough to win, but it makes me feel like
I can do that. Um. So when you have that element,
you kind of I just I feel like I'm a
little bit more relaxed going into that day. Doesn't feel

(01:00:12):
like it's not going to be the end of the
world if you don't win. Um. And you know, I
actually got off to a kind of a crappy start.
I bogie like one of my first three holes and um,
and it was a short, easy hole. Don't trust me.
I was watching. I was watching, and you bogie bogie early,
and I'm like, remember when you do texted me and said,
if you didn't have two doubles? Yeah, this is this

(01:00:34):
is this is what, this is what a great high
level coach does. I sent I sent you the message
after l A. I'm like, you know, you take away
the two double bogies and you play, which I think
is helping you, and I know in your head you're gone. Yeah,
thanks for that. That's great, great insight. I didn't realize
that the two double bogies I made today killed my score. Chef.
Thanks for that. Um. You said on someday that you

(01:00:56):
didn't watch leaderboards when playing good. When playing good, talk
me through that, because yeah, why is that? I am
a very um. I feel like I'm a more reactive
person than I will give like then I will want
to admit to myself. So like, let's say I glance
up at the leaderboard and I see like, oh, you're
in the lead or you're one back. Like then I
start getting like anxious. It's like, okay, let's make more

(01:01:18):
birdies or let's I get way to ahead of the game.
I've totally like abandoned playing one shot at a time,
and I'm like what are my next five holes? And
like what are my birdie opportunities? And like where are
maybe the toughest hole is going to be? You know,
I'm just now I'm lost. I'm like totally down the
road where I don't need to be. So when I
don't look um, it forces me to just be present

(01:01:42):
to what I have to do right then and there
and again. I can't control what Jinonko is doing. I
can't control what Liddy is doing. I can't control what
anyone is doing. So to look at that and think
that it's going to really change my game plan, I
think the only way would backfire is if I would
maybe take on unnecessary risk unbeknownst to myself, like on

(01:02:05):
the last hole or two, thinking I need to do
something that I don't but I feel like I haven't
been in a position that's just not even like me
as a player, right, Um, I'm not a huge Like
let me go for crazy pins if I know that
I can't do it, or if I know that I
haven't ever executed that shot, like, I would never just
try it in the moment. I would play to whatever

(01:02:25):
my strength is and then if that results in me
making a t for pretty great. If it doesn't, it doesn't.
But it's like I'm not going to make a bogey
or a mistake because I'm trying something I've never tried
before in a tournament at like the highest point of
the tournament, you know. So I gotta say I'm smart
enough to know that that's not something I would try

(01:02:45):
and do. Like I would never go for a part
five and two force carry when I'm stretching the limit
of my three would, like I just I won't. I
know I'm good enough from a hundred yards in that
I'll make I can make a Burtie another way. So
I think just allowing me to not like change my
game plan or my decision making is sometimes like leaderboard

(01:03:08):
watching will make me do something that I wouldn't normally do.
Do you do you feel I'm always interested in this
as well because as someone that has never played golf
at a high level, never had a chance when golf
tournament back nine on Sunday in that tournament in California,
do you feel and know you're in the mix? You
feel like, what does that feel like? Physically and mentally

(01:03:31):
like heightened? You're just like everything's kind of just like
a touch more like sensory overload. I feel like you're
very like aware of like every little thing that you're doing,
and um, you're just kind of like a touch zoned out,
like you're there, but you're not there. I noticed, like
I and you know, when I played in Portland, um

(01:03:54):
Stacy's caddy, Travis um was cattying for me. He was
feeling because she had either just had cha me or
was about to give birth. And he helped me for
the three weeks and that was our last week together.
And him and I chat on the court all the time,
like he's funny. You know, we have a similar sense
of humor. But man, it got to like that last
nine holes in Portland, and I was like in the zone, Like,

(01:04:15):
I don't think we spoke other than the golf shot
from like ten through when I was on eighteen and
he was like, I need you to chip outsideways and
I'm like, but why because I wanted to make a
more aggressive and he was like, no, no, no, just
trust me. Just hit it straight over here and then
we'll hit you know, an eight or seven iron on

(01:04:36):
the green. And so I did that and we're walking
up and I'm like, what's going on, you know, like
turn score wise, and he's like, well, you have a
three shot lead, and so he didn't want me to
do something dumb. So it ended up just making a
bogie and I won by two or whatever. Um, But yeah,
we didn't speak. We didn't talk, like the jokes stopped,
like all the stuff that we have been kind of

(01:04:56):
doing because I just was like in my groove and
I don't think you need to disrupt that. And I
think a really good caddy knows when and when not
to disrupt, Like I think if they can sense that
their player is maybe anxious or freaked, it's a good
time for a caddy to kind of maybe, you know,
break the tension. But I think caddies can tell and

(01:05:16):
that that's a good that like, that's a good zone
that they're in to not mess with it now that
you've one again. And it was probably something that it was.
It was a touch unexpected, if I'm being honest, Like
it wasn't. It wasn't. And my dad has been joking
about it, and he's like, yeah, you're gonna You're gonna
win this year, you know, But it's my dad, you know,

(01:05:37):
my parents. You know, they're the most ultimate optimists in
the sense, you know, they believe in everything that I do,
you know, at a thousand percent. And and I like
everything that you and I have been working on my swing.
I was like, my game feels so much better than
it has in a long time. So it wasn't an
unplausible thing for me to think. But I just felt
like it had been so long and I hadn't been

(01:05:59):
playing good and so along that I was going to
take more time up there for me to you know,
get back there, you know, more times in contention, because
I really like I haven't been in a while. But
it just kind of happened quick and I was like, oh,
when I sent you that text message on Saturday night
before you played, and I said to you, you know,
for all the dumb shit I say, like, you know,

(01:06:20):
don't make any double bogies and you'll play better. I mean,
the one thing I said to you on the Saturday
night was I think you're ready to win again. But
you fundamentally have to believe that. Right your parents, you're
caddying everybody around you. But you know, I think that
course set up super well for me, much like Portland.
Did you know no one was overpowering the par five's,
which is a good thing for me because I don't

(01:06:42):
overpower them. So you know, when you've got four par
fives and most girls can hit them into, you know, statistically,
they're gonna probably be lower on the score on the
par fives than than me. Um, it's part I think
there are only three par fives in general. Like I
my show like par threes and fours. I'm like actually

(01:07:03):
lower scoring average in part fives. So when courses don't
have as many part fives, I tend to perform better
because I just do better on threes and fours. I
think some of it's a distance thing. Um, you know,
and I feel like when my irons are on, they're accurate,
so I have good birdie looks. Um. Yeah, the course
the courses that I've won on have set up well

(01:07:25):
for my game. You appreciate the win. I don't notice
it in the moment, but when I look back on it,
I'm like, yeah, that does make more sense. You think
you appreciate it more now having one having gone through
all the things and the struggles that you've gone through.
I mean, and everyone has these like ups and downs
of their careers, you know, whether it's and I don't
want to make like the injury or COVID out to
be anything like crazy big, you know, because everyone has

(01:07:49):
their moments. It's rare that I feel like an athlete
in any sport goes through their career without injuries setback
like it's and if you haven't, God bless you, because
that is unbelievable. I mean, it's so rare to not
see people, whether they're playing through the injury or not,
like it is definitely affecting, you know, how they are performing,

(01:08:12):
um and where they are mentally. So I think I
appreciate it now because up until that point, the career
had been like on a nice little baby upward trajectory,
you know, cap off let's say Solheim Cup, and then
things kind of went the opposite direction. Um, So it's
nice after you know, let's say two and a half
years to see things like swinging back the other way.

(01:08:34):
But everyone has trajectories and there's a lot of ebb
and flow. So I'm just I'm a way more thankful
now than I was. Probably lastly you mentioned that there
was faults about walking away from the game and doing
something different. Now one again, it gives you, you know,

(01:08:54):
two year exemption and stuff. What are the goals moving
forward and what has the win in your head allowed
you to have the opportunity to do. I think, um,
the one thing that is still something that I need
to tackle and I would and I and I will
UM is majors. Like I feel like I haven't put

(01:09:15):
myself in a position in a major that I've put
myself in a position in a fair amount of regular tournaments,
and I want to see more of that for myself, um,
regardless of THEE in the mix, I want to get
in the mix and and see what that really feels
like on an even bigger plat back nine on Sunday,
and you know, on the courses that I love, Like
I get out there, I'm like, man, these places are great.
I love them. But I think I like put a

(01:09:36):
lot more pressure on myself at that point, and so
I need to I need to figure out how to
just pump the brakes and just it's not any different
than I mean, it is different, but the game plan
doesn't need to be different. And sometimes for me, I
just get a little worked up. So to mention anxiety
too much anxiety, don't break your phone again. That's that's

(01:09:58):
a great story. I'm really excited about the fact that
you know, you you've got this kind of I think
it's the next phase of your career. And in the
three phase, I'm like older, and I just feel like
when you're young, you feel you have so much to prove,
so much to establish, you know, like, oh, are you
you know a good player? Do other players respect you?

(01:10:20):
Know your game and your and who you are as
a player. I think I've battled with a little bit
of that, Like in my first couple of years, I
just wanted I wanted other people to not think that
I was just like not you know, like a couple
of year tour player. But then you know, and I think,
now almost ten years into this, like I don't I
don't feel like I have to prove anything to anyone

(01:10:43):
about myself or my game. And that kind of relieves
a lot of pressure. I feel like, and you can
just go out and play and like the rest is
really gravy. Yeah. And I always think that when people
have never won on the PGA Tour, the LPGA Tour,
the first time you get your first win, it's teams, like,
you know, it's it's like the most important thing that's
ever happened to you. But I always till you're trying

(01:11:05):
to achieve the second way, But I always think that
when a player gets their second win on tour, it's
it's so much more. It's validation. It's validation, and it's
almost more important than the first. People would be lying
if they didn't say that it's not validation because everyone
can say to themselves like, oh, are you just like

(01:11:26):
are you just a one hit wonder? You know, did
you win that one time? But but are you really
capable of winning? And that's a very like not to
get too deep into it, but I'm I got to
imagine myself included, especially like players probably think that about
themselves in their game, like there's some self doubt when yeah,
you've won, but are you going to do it again
and again? You know, I mean no one's Tiger Woods,

(01:11:49):
but you have a lot of multiple tour winners that
are like very incredibly mentally strong, like good players, and
then you know there's the people in between, and I
think there's always that struggle of like, you know, am
I that good? Am I not that good? You know?
I think there's a lot of like there's doubt in there.
So the second one I feel like puts a lot

(01:12:10):
of people's personal doubt and kind of pushes it aside.
Does it and has it helped you? Definitely? Yeah? It has. Um. Yeah,
I mean there's you just can't like there's no there's
no substitute for another win. There isn't there really isn't. Well,
I'm excited to see what you do in the major

(01:12:30):
stys um the rest of the year, and we got
the US Open coming up, and um, I'm expecting big things. Boy,
Thanks for talking to me. So that was Marina Alex
And yeah, I'm so so proud of her to come back.
She was thinking about it. She said she was thinking

(01:12:52):
about not playing golf. Um, maybe ending her career and
to get a win at the stage of her life. UM,
it's it's a really really cool story and you know,
I'm really really lucky to be a part of it. Uh.
So we're at the Women's US Open Pine Needles. Um
Anica Swornstand kind of broke through in one here. I
saw Anica today and I was joking with her that,

(01:13:13):
you know, there's pictures of Anka hoisting the trophy and
and to see kind of you know, where Anka has
gone in that journey. Um, I think she is just
one of the most amazing players in the game of golf,
in the history of the game of golf. So always
good to see her. Talked to her today about getting
her on the podcast, that she hates doing podcasts, but

(01:13:34):
she said, I'll do it for you. So keep keep
on the lookout from maybe an Anka Sworrenstand podcast. So
walked around Pine Needles today, very much an old school
golf course, really really good looking m visually. UM, pretty
generous fairways here. Um. I think it's the weather here
this week is supposed to be Um, it's supposed to

(01:13:56):
just stay warm, not a lot of rain. So we
were talking today, UM Corey Webb, who's really good friends, UM,
kind of a mentor to Marina. She played here and
said that, UM, if she had it to do over again,
she changed how she went about the practice round. So
we were kind of talking about the day. She was
saying that the golf course changed so much when she

(01:14:17):
played here from Monday to kind of the weekend, when
the golf course really started to get firm, fast and
baked out. So she was saying that a lot of
the short shots that she was hitting early in the
week short game and stuff around the greens, by the
time the weekend um happened, she didn't even use any
of the shots that she practiced. So Marina and I

(01:14:38):
were talking about that today, UM saying, listen, obviously, right now,
you could take a lofted club, lob wedge, sand wedge
and try and carry something all the way there. But
as the golf course gets firmer, faster, and the approach
areas and the greens get kind of baked out, you're
going to be hitting, You're going to be putting a lot,

(01:14:58):
You're going to be using a lot of maybe be
bumping runs and stuff like that, So we we kind
of varied our practice around the greens, hitting a combination
of lofted wedges from just off of the greens and
then trying to figure out because one of the signatures
of a Donald Raw Sculf course is the greens are
flat in the middle and then everything runs off, So

(01:15:19):
you can hit a shot in the middle of the green,
has a little bit of speed to it from you know,
whatever distance, and it will roll off. So there are
a lot of areas to where you know, we were
down in these kind of low areas to where they're
they're kind of low runoff areas and if you're short
sided in that situation. We were going down into those

(01:15:39):
spots with Marina and having her hit not not only
wedge shots but putting as well, and a lot of
times her worst put from just off the green having
to go up slope and get it to a short
sided pin, her worst put was better than the best
wedge shot she was able to hit. Because the grass
and the greens they're very very firm, and the approach

(01:16:01):
areas around these these runoff areas around the meanings are
really really really tight, their firm and one of the
things I find really interesting about the runoff areas here
at Pine is you've got the putting surface, and then
the greens will slope off, you know sometimes maybe you know,
three or four ft down, go to a flat area,
a little bit of a flat area, and then start

(01:16:22):
to raise up again, so you could miss the green
and be on a down slope, really really tight lie
trying to then figure out if you're gonna bounce something
into the false front, whether you're going to carry it. Um.
We experimented with putting. We experimented with some you know
putting with three wood, a hybrid, something like that, and

(01:16:45):
it's funny, it's it's interesting what what certain players um
like and what they don't like. Marina just doesn't feel
comfortable at all using anything off the green, like a
three wood or a hybrid to hit you know, kind
of a long pot. She feels more comfortable putting. And
so one of the things that we were trying to
gauge is trying to gauge the upslope. You know, you're
putting from off the green, you've got to go up

(01:17:07):
a pretty steep bank and then down. And I said
to her, listen, you want to feel like, when you're
in these situations, the tendency, And she said this a
couple of times. She said, listen, I don't want to
I don't want to hit this put too far past.
But I said to her and said, listen, if you
don't try and hit it past the whole, you're gonna
end up not having enough speed. You're gonna get it
up the slope and then it's going to roll down

(01:17:28):
back to your feet and you're gonna have to do
it again. So when you're in those situations and you're
using a putter from just off of the greens, don't
be afraid to make sure that you run it past.
And and I think out of the eighteen holes we
played today, there were only a very very few instances
where she hit too hard of a put and it

(01:17:49):
went five six ft past. A lot of times she
was like, oh, that's gotta stop, that's gonna stop. And
I said, that's gonna be perfect, and it was. It was.
It was, you know, two two feet away from the flag.
So I like what they the runoff airs. I like
the creativity that this golf course will give the ladies
this week. Um, there's plenty of room to drive it
off the tea. I mean, there is a lot of rooms.

(01:18:11):
So um, I really believe that it will be the
iron game this week that will separate. Um the people
have a chance to win on Sunday versus the people
that don't. Because there were a lot of holes here
that we were walking around to where we were looking
at where they were going to put the pins. If
they're gonna put two pins in the back, back, left,
back right, and then put two pins front left, front right.

(01:18:32):
There were a lot of greens where we would stand
on there with with Marina and our caddy and we
would look at if you hit every single shot for
four days right in the middle of this green, you're
really not going to not be able to get to
any of the pin position. So um, I get loads
of questions every single week about what players are doing
in the practice round and and fresh off of just
getting back to the hotel from the golf course. Um,

(01:18:55):
that was a lot of what we were doing, like
I said, and some golf courses. I was just at
Southern Hills for the p g A and it was
very very much about what players were going to hit
off of the tees. Um, where they're gonna try and
hit driver where they're gonna try and hit a two iron,
where they're gonna try and hit a hybrid, where they're
trying to hit three wood. We saw that um down

(01:19:15):
the stretch, um JT. We saw you know, Mito Pereira, Um,
you know, choose to hit driver. Everybody's like, oh, I
could have hit three wood, he could have hit a
different club. I think this golf course, in this major
Championship test will all be about the second shot because
there was a lot of room off the tees to
hit um driver. Um. There aren't a lot of really

(01:19:36):
really tight um driving holes to where the fairways are
very very narrow. So it's not a typical kind of
men's set up US Open. UM. Uh. What I think
we're going to see when we get to Brookline for
the Men's US Open in a couple of weeks, that
is going to be old school US Open. A lot
of really really tight um t shots, not a lot

(01:19:56):
of landing areas, and then a lot of rough here
it's the opposite. There's plenty of room off the team.
But then I think what you're gonna have to do
as a player this week is try and figure out
how aggressive you're going to need to be. And I
think what's going to catch a lot of players out
is they're going to be going for pins where if
they just dumped it into the middle of the green,
maybe had a twenty ft or maybe you know, depending

(01:20:17):
on where the pin was, maybe you have a closer shot.
But we talked a lot, Marina. I talked a lot
today going around the practice round and saying, listen, this
is a whole dump it right here in the center
you could get to. You have good pots for, you
have decent chances for Bertie, for all of these. If
you shortside yourself, you're really going to start a long
I think if you are going to watch the Women's
US Open this week, um, you're going to see players

(01:20:40):
shortside themselves and then what kind of creativity and what
kind of ability they have to control the flight, the
spin and those things. I'm really excited. Um, this is
the first Women's US Open I've been to, believe it
or not, since nineteen ninety one, and it was at
Colonial where the men played last week. Um for Charles Schwab.
But it's really cool to be here. There are so

(01:21:02):
many good golf swings. When you walk up and down.
I was walking up and down the range today. Because
I don't spend an enormous amount of time on the
LPGA tour. There are a lot of players who's whose
swings and games that I really really admire and I like,
and I never really get to see them in person.
I've only really able to get to see them on TV. UM.

(01:21:23):
Later on this afternoon, I was on the driving range and, UM,
Jessica Corda and Nellie Corda we're hitting golf balls. To
be honest with you, I've never really seen Nellie hit
the golf ball in person, and I mean, what an
amazing golf swing. Um, the positions Nelly's able to put
the golf club. Her sister Jessica another really really really

(01:21:45):
good golf swing. And I was just sitting back as
a fan, just standing around and just watching a lot
of of the ladies hit shots. UM. I'm excited to
be here. I think it's gonna be a really really
fun test UM and it's going to be really interesting
to see what type of creativity UM the players have
to have the ability to try and win this great championship.

(01:22:08):
So I'm really excited to be here and we'll see
what happens, and we'll see who wins the women's u
S Open of course with Claude Horman comes to you
every Wednesday and again SORR one year anniversary. UM. I
couldn't do this UM without everybody listening, so thank everybody
so much. We're going to continue to get guests and

(01:22:31):
hopefully the next twelve months he is as good as
the last twelve months. Thanks everyone for listening and we
will see you next week

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Host

Josh Martin

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