After breaking into the industry as Opie at six-years-old, Ron Howard has gone on a remarkable run as one of the top actors, producers and directors in Hollywood. He shares highlights from his momentous career and how golf has served as an outlet - first with his brother and later with his son. Ron also breaks down the weight of winning an Oscar, the difficulty of creating a successful golf movie and why he never has a bad day on the golf course.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
It's episode forty six of Off Course with Claude Harmon
always comes to you every Wednesday, seeing as it's Oscar's week.
Who better than Ron Howard, Actor, director, producer, two time
Academy Award winner and his movies his television shows were huge,
huge part of my childhood growing up, and um, he's
(00:32):
just an amazing director. His his films, his television programs
are a huge, huge part of popular culture. But before
we get to Ron, let's start with Cobra Golf. You've
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(00:53):
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(01:15):
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ltd x to learn more about the driver. Now let's
get to the interview with Ron Howard. So when I
(01:42):
started the podcast from the idea was to get people
that were obviously in the golf space and then get
people that weren't in the golf space that we're golfers.
And when I heard that you were a golfer, that
your son was trying to play. Um. So much of
my childhood was based around sitting and watching Happy Days
on a whatever night it was. I'm fifty two, so
(02:03):
I still remember sitting in watching Happy Days and it
was it was such a huge part of of my childhood.
And the characters and all the things that you you
guys did on that show. We're just a huge part
of my life growing up. Well, uh, well, thank you.
It was too. When the first air it was it
was Tuesday nights at eight on ABC. Uh and um,
(02:24):
and of course it's it's never gone off the air,
just like the Andy Griffith Show has never been off
the air since nineteen sixty. So, uh, what a remarkable, bizarre,
you know, circumstance to have these uh these shows. Uh
kind of my affiliation with them for for all of
these years. Uh, but they're they're part of like American
(02:47):
kind of pop culture now the characters that you I mean,
is that strange for you to realize that you you
created you know, things that you know have lasted for
so long and all of these things that people still
talk about today. Well, Claude, I feel grateful because I
didn't create them. I was. I was a team. I
was on the team, and I had I had I
(03:09):
had important roles to play and I did him in
the beginning, really with the help of of my dad,
in particular my father. Um, I'll get in a plug here.
We you know, my brother Clinton and I both were
child actors. And we have a book out right now
with HarperCollins called The Boys, a Memoir of of Hollywood
and Family. It's been outside October. It's been doing really well.
(03:32):
We also do the audio book. But it was interesting
to freely focus on these questions, which is really what
the book is about. It's only really about our childhood
in the business and navigating all of it, you know,
into and including um, you know, my time on on
happy days even know that took me into my twenties.
(03:53):
But uh, so the the thing that is really remarkable
about them was not only the just the gift the
blessing of having been associated with these shows that just
happened to endure in this remarkable way. Uh. I was
also surrounded by these these show runners and uh and
(04:13):
uh and actors who made this possible. You know, So
I was I was picking up on a very specific
set of fundamentals. Now there's some critics out there that
would say that I'm still my work as a director,
while a lot more sophisticated and far reaching, UH still
reflects uh some of those qualities. And I think for
(04:37):
a lot of audience members that's a good thing. I
think in some critical critical circles, Uh, they they feel
that somehow I'm a product of a certain kind of
storytelling sensibility, and they think they find it in the
various movies. I think those are personally, I think they're
universal qualities. Uh. And that I've been able that I
learned almost by osmosis and then have just developed over
(05:01):
the years. So that to me, the whole thing is
a is A is a huge blessing and um and
I'm and you know, and something that. I'm just really
proud to have been a part of. The book touches
on the fact. I mean, you came from a family
of actors, people that were in the business, and then
you and your brother. The other thing I love about
your your brother shows up in all of these films
(05:23):
and you always know he's going to show up and Um.
But having grown up in a family of people that
were in the business, so to speak, did you feel
pressured to do that? Because I'm in the same boat.
My dad, my grandfather, all of these people in my family,
they were all golfers. Um. I kind of shunned away
(05:43):
from golf as as a youngster because my entire family was,
you know, it was all golf. I didn't play a
lot of golf growing up. I tried to do other
things and then kind of got into golf late after
I graduated from college. Did you feel you were not
forced into it but it was something that was always
a part of your if you just decided to know, well, no,
I mean, it's it's it's it's different than that. And
(06:06):
I won't go into any detail because again, a lot
of that stuff happens to be in the book. But
but they were outliers because they were not established in
this business. They were from the Midwest, from Oklahoma and Kansas,
and you know, they characterized themselves as sort of Ultimately
once they've been in living in New York and Los
(06:27):
Angeles for a couple of decades, they started to characterize
themselves as sophisticated Hicks. But they were always Hicks, and
they knew it and they owned it. Um. They didn't
play into it. They didn't try to behave that way
like you know, like some people sort of trying to
own their region and make it, uh you know, so
part of their their persona. Now, they didn't do that.
It's just in the sensibility, the work ethic, and the mindset.
(06:50):
But they were the dreamers. They changed the course of
the family history and the path and um, Clinton, I
are the benefit is saries of that because on top
of everything else, not only did they have the guts
to take a shot at chasing this thing, and not
only were they durable enough and just good enough to
actually make it living at it while never reaching stardom. Um,
(07:15):
they you know, they just passed along such great a
great understanding of what was what was exciting about the business,
what was gratifying about the business, about that work, um,
the thrill of creativity, the thrill of participating in a
creative group, you know, endeavor um. And I had a
(07:36):
real aptitude for it, so to Clint, but I really
really loved it. So when I was you know, it
kind of fell into it through my through my dad
very early at age four. I remember I always liked it,
claud I thought it was I thought it was a blast. Uh.
You know, it was never in the way it was
it never was interfering with anything that I'd rather be doing.
(07:59):
I always thought it is just fantastic. And I was
getting a tremendous amount of great feedback um from these adults.
And here's one thing I want to say about a
parallel between sort of what I experienced as a child
and what I saw my son read experience as a junior,
really highly competitive junior golfer college and you know and
(08:20):
young pro um. He was also on the chess circuit
as a kid. He was pretty high ranged as a
junior chess player. Yeah, so he was always competitive and
but not a great not a very academic guy, not
naturally a bright, great curiosity, but not very academic. But
high achieving in these other levels other things. And I'm
(08:40):
telling you, there is something about a young person recognizing
what it takes to excel, what it takes to be
a cut above the rest of the of the gang,
that is incredibly useful. And um, you know, while he
can hinues to pursue avenues of the golf industry, including
(09:03):
playing and it's still very, very competitive, he's also a businessman.
And I see it, and he's winning because he knows
how to win. And uh, and he knows and he knows,
he understands the fundamentals. And one of the first things
that I I loved I played golf. I was an athlete,
hype basketball and baseball player, but I fell into golf.
If anybody knows, they're gonna laugh at the Debelle Golf
(09:24):
Course in Burbank, California, this tiny, little, short, twisty, mountainous
course that is hell hell to play. But but there's
this devoted group of the bellum mainstays. My brothers is
among those um. And so you know, in high school
I started playing out there never any good, never with
(09:45):
any lessons, but enjoyed it. Played quite a bit. What
I would steal away from the from the set if
I had thought I had a few hours and go
over and play nine, and I really liked it, you know.
And I'm just good enough as a natural athlete to
you know, not be hunting from my ball all the time.
But the but, but the um what I saw with
(10:11):
Red and golf as he shifted from hockey and baseball
and all that stuff at around age twelve eleven twelve
into sort of real, real, full focus on golf, um uh,
spurred largely by his love of the movie Happy Gilmour.
So uh but uh, um. You know, the etiquette of
(10:34):
the game and the expectation on even a young player.
If you're out there in a forsom with some other
people who are trying to get a good round in,
and as soon as you get good enough that you're
you're not just the cute little guy playing along. You're
actually a part of a foursome with a rhythm and
a flow and and the rules matter and all that.
(10:55):
That etiquette is spectacular. And then you add on top
of that, it's pretty easy early on to differentiate who's
doing better and getting better and why. And it pretty
much all boils down to work and also knowing who
to listen to, um, you know who to get the
good guidance from. So it's a long winded answer. I
was having that kind of experience as an actor and
(11:17):
as a young man. I was even being told, Hey,
I bet you'd be a director when you grow up.
But I was around at etiquette, a sensibility, a process
that I witnessed and learned to appreciate and enjoy. And
in his own way, um, you know, uh, I felt
that about read and golf in his relationship with the
game and those who play it, and and it's been
(11:39):
very constructive for him, as it was for me. You know,
one of the things I always say to parents. Your
parents will bring their son or their daughter in and
they'll say, listen, you know, you're never going to meet
someone that's going to work harder than my son or
my daughter. And I always say, that's kind of a prerequisite.
I kind of assumed that if they're going to develop
and get better and get to that next level, we
(11:59):
shouldn't have to teach them to work hard. And you know,
you mentioned that your dad and your parents instilled so
much of that, and you know, the critics look at
some of your work and it but it does have
this kind of old school sensibility. Do you think a
lot of that was based off of where your parents
grew up, That kind of old school kind of mentality
(12:20):
that you've been able to bring to to so many
of your films. I think it's their personality. It's also
that sort of uh, you know, earthy Midwestern kind of
common sense, um, you know, approach um. And when I
was learning to act, even on The Andy Griffin Show,
which was a you know, a comedy full on comedy
(12:42):
and and and and even with with with happy Days,
but with other things, one of the things that differentiated
my character Opie on The Andy Griffin Show was that
I was playing that kid for real. I was being
taught to understand what was going on emotionally psychologically with
(13:02):
that kid in a very real way. It wasn't about
a result of getting a comedy rhythm to get a laugh.
It was about the humor uh and the heart um
uh and sometimes the pain of the real situation. And
I have tried. That's I think, and I think Andy
subscribed to that as well. Um. He used to really
(13:25):
dislike shows that we're sort of broad and zany and
and satirical about the South like he you know, frankly,
he didn't love Hill Build, Beverly Hillbuilding. He wasn't crazy
about Petticoat Junction because he felt like those were farces
using the sensibilities of the South. And I remember him
saying many times, we don't have to be that broad.
(13:48):
We don't have to we don't have to be that jokey.
The South is plenty funny on its own if you
just play it for real. Uh. And and but that's
the way that's that's that can be said of of
of uh, you know, of humanity. So my work is
pretty grounded in reality. So there's a kind of a
straightforwardness and a kind of an honesty, even an earnestness
(14:10):
to what I'm doing. And what I'm trying to do
is recreate, through the story and the characterizations, something that
that most characters, that most people in the audience can
relate to. And I I would character I would carry
that over to you know, a kid's fantasy like The
Grange or or Splash or uh, just as much as
(14:33):
I would a drama like Apollo thirteen or Frost Nixon
or Rush or I'm doing I'm just finishing a movie
called Thirteen Lives Um, which is about the rescue and
Thailand of the of the soccer team. I mean, that
was such an unbelievable story, amazing story, and you know again,
I really, I really want audiences to feel like they're
(14:55):
they're alongside it, they understand it. They're not being told
something at arms length. They're getting to experience, you know,
what it was like to be there, what it might
have felt like. And so I, um, you know, I
approached things in a fairly straightforward way, trying to create
that connection between audience and the characters who are living through,
(15:15):
you know, whatever experience of living through, whatever tone the
story might be. We're gonna take a quick break to
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(16:00):
you to think wisely, drink wisely. Another iconic movie, certainly
of my childhood, and I think of Americana, American Graffiti.
You know, George Lucas, I mean, you know, you're you're
you're part of this ensemble cast, all of which is
so many of those actors at that young stage of
(16:22):
their career, Harrison Ford, Richard Drive, they went on to
do such amazing things when you have a sense when
you're a part of something like that wrong, that yeah,
this is this is going to be special. I've always
wondered that the movie making thing, can you tell that
it's going to be good, that you guys are onto something?
(16:43):
Can you tell that I'm not going in the right direction.
I thought it was good. My dad didn't like that
script at all. Uh, he didn't get it. I did,
um and some of the actors thought it was just
an okay job. It was a little budget, very little budget.
We weren't you know, we're paid just basically a union scale. Uh.
The there was a cinematographer who was helping out a
(17:05):
famous Oscar winning cinematographer and director who passed away a
couple of years ago. Haskell Wexler just really one of
the one of the all time greats. He was helping
George Lucas, really believed in George new Francis Coppela very well.
Francis Ford cople of the Godfather and Apocalypse. Now wasn't
the executive producer and sort of shepherding this movie although
it was George Lucas's vision, you know, all the way. Um,
(17:30):
but uh, you know, I said to Haskell one time
after shooting. We shot all just at night, you know,
so it was these grueling nights and then and then
you'd be riding back to the holiday inn in the
in the in the you know, six six o'clock in
the morning, bleary eyed, and I said, well, what do
you think of this? Uh, Haskell, what do you think
(17:51):
it's gonna be? Says well, he said, it's I think
you George is trying a lot of interesting things, and
I think the cast is good. But you know, it's
two weeks at a theater or drive in and out.
It's it's a you know, it's it's a kid's movie,
it's a team movie. So he never thought it was
gonna be this sort of elevated cinematic achievement, which it was.
(18:11):
It was nominated for a number of Oscars uh and
uh um, you know and as and it really remains,
you know, in people's minds as a real as a
real turning point. And it was because it was so
inventive for what it was, the use of music, the
style of photography, the naturalism of the acting. All of
these were are George. They were all George. And that's
(18:34):
what for me. You never know the outcome. And I
was enough of a veteran even at that point in
my life to recognize that that you just never you
never really know. But I knew I was learning something,
and I knew I was picking up on a sensibility
that was different than what I had experienced as an
actor growing up in Hollywood. It was San Francisco. Everybody there,
(18:57):
you know. Not only were they kind of hippies with
long hair. Not only were there more women on the
crew than I've ever ever seen before, but um, but
they were all film school graduates. They were documentary filmmakers
as well as being you know, working on a crew
of a scripted movie. Um, they're they're almost everyone involved
with the project considered you know, themselves to be filmmakers,
(19:22):
not professional technicians, uh, not lifelong UM Studio employees. And
it was a very different sensibility and it was it
was charged with creativity, and it was exciting and uh,
you know, and I could bridge, I could sort of
bridge both both worlds in a way that's held true
(19:42):
for my career, you know, ever since. I mean, I've
as you know, worked with John Wayne and Henry Fonda
and Early Jones and you know, and Lauren Bacall and
people like that. Um. But I but I've you know,
I've I've also you know, in there with Vigo Mortensen
and uh Russell Crowd, you know, and Rena's Lager and
Nicole Kidman and the you know, the the uh contemporary
(20:08):
group of superstars. You mentioned the music in American Graffiti.
Music is such a huge part of movies now, but
it seemed like up until that point, the kind of
soundtrack and when I remember watching America, you you remember
as much about the scenes and the music and that
combination that's just normal now. I mean, people see movies
now and their soundtracks and people are trying to get
(20:30):
their music. But to be able to kind of see
that the music could help tell that story and put
you a lot of the music in American Graffiti, I thought,
kind of put you felt like the sound of it
put you in that space where you're very perceptive. Because
he wrote the screenplay with those songs in mine and
when it when I went in on the first audition
(20:52):
for it, it was characterized to me as a musical
and and I said, well, I'm not. I don't sing
very well. I know I was in the music man,
but I think they thought it was cute that I
that I was off key, you know, and and uh
but uh they but he said no, no, nobody has
to sing. And I said, but it's a musical. He
said yeah. And he didn't explain anything more about it,
(21:12):
because George was, you know, has always been rather cryptic,
and it was even more so than uh. But um,
that's the way these lateral thinkers, super thinkers tend to
express themselves. Sometimes they can't quite explain it. Um. They
but he wrote the scenes with songs in mind, and
(21:32):
in not every instance, could he actually get the rights
to the song he dreamed of, But he knew that
that it was. And that's look, he said, rock and
Roll was is our American graffiti. And you know, after
World War Two, there was graffiti all over Europe and
it was sort of people expressing themselves, young people expressing themselves.
And so that's why he thought that rock and Roll
(21:54):
was American graffiti. And uh so uh pretty you know,
um uh sort of an intellectual title for a pop movie,
but there you go, and and audiences rose to meet that.
And that's been the other thing that I've really learned
over the years that um, you know, audiences are getting
(22:15):
smarter by the minute, and now that there are so
many options, so many ways to see films and TV
shows from all over the world. Um, you know, audiences
are are are learning to appreciate such a range of
of of storytelling sensibilities and types and it's really cool
(22:36):
and and you know, and but bless them somehow, there's
still love millions of people who want to watch reruns
of the Andy Griffin Show. It's or or Happy Days.
It's kind of it's kind of incredible. But there, you know,
for those who don't. They're not stuck with it. There's
you know, there's there's they're there's great shows from all
over the world Spain, Africa, India, Um, France, Korea. It's unbelievable.
(23:04):
Happy Days was such an iconic part of your early career.
How much of you was in Richie Cunningham the character?
I mean, how much of that kind of mirrored was it?
I know you said you were in your twenties and
Ritchie was supposed to be in high school and stuff,
But was there was there part of you in that character? Well?
I started at at the first pilot was when I
(23:25):
was seventeen and a senior in high school. It didn't sell,
then it sold a couple of years later, so I
was nineteen and uh um, yeah, I was good casting,
Let's put it that way. I was good path I write.
I related to that character. And as they began to
write for that character, they were they were writing in rhythms, cadences,
and even a sensibility that I certainly connected with, um,
(23:47):
you know, and related to. And early on I felt
like my job on Happy Days was similar to what
Andy's had been on the Andy Griffith Show. Andy had
had Barney and aunt b and IVENOPI. Well, you know,
for me, I was sort of a straight man in
the show. And there was Fonsie and there was Potsi
and Ralph and and and and and so I felt
like that was my that was my job. I understood
(24:09):
my role. It was one I was very comfortable with.
But I was already interested in directing, So that was
by then, it was already it was my day job.
It was a great one, um, but it was my
day job because I was already putting myself through a
process of preparing for that opportunity, that breakthrough to become
a director. So I was finding ways two to sort
(24:33):
of lead people. When I was fourteen, and I write
about this in the book a lot too. I we
created a team. My dad was the sort of the
manager because he didn't know much about sports, and I
coached kids baseball and basketball for six years and partly
was fun because I, I you know, enjoyed and it
was all team kind of the bad News bearers. It
was a team made up just of Clinton his buddies, really,
(24:55):
but we did We did pretty well, and I enjoyed coaching.
But even then at four team, when I first started
that I thought, you know, this is gonna be good
for me, because I think if I can control a
bunch of eight or nine year old boys, uh and
work with them, I bet that will help me on
a set someday when I'm trying to deal with, you know,
a difficult actor. Uh. Did you spend a lot of
(25:17):
time when you were acting? Did you spend a lot
of time with all of the other people trying to
kind of learn and with the directors and trying to
hang out there, because I would imagine a lot of
times you're acting and then you're not acting back in
the school because I was, you know in in uh
(25:37):
Andy Griffin show always shot while during the school year,
and so my obligation each day was to go to
the on being the scene and then I had to
get three hours of of of schooling in in twenty
minute chunks during the course of the day. So I've
been a good multitasker ever since, because I learned how
to shift gears, you know, really quickly, and my my
(25:59):
studio teacher demanded that kind of focus, um, and I'm
grateful for it. But when I wasn't doing either of
those things, I definitely was looking through the lens and
learning about you know, the light, the lighting of the
set and the photography, and it didn't end. And observing
the writers and the actors were often allowed to be
(26:19):
a part of a kind of a you know, a
pitch session, a note session where they would discuss story
concerns and lines of dialogue that could be better and
pitch various ideas. And I was included in that even
and and couldn't even participate, which which was really gracious
of them and showed a lot of patients. But I, um,
(26:40):
you know, I was soaking all of that up and um,
and when I did finally direct, um, my first film
at started shooting the day after my twenty three birthday.
It was very comfortable, very comfortable transition because I had
I made a lot of short films by then as well.
But on top of that, I I just understood then
(27:03):
and I still understand the rhythm of a set, the
creative problem, solving the process around it, who does what,
and how to how to get to a solution when
there's a snag. It's an imperfect process. Um, But because
it involves all kinds of factors including you know, weather,
time constraints, money, constraints, personalities, illness, you know, creative limitations
(27:27):
that all of us as artists have to cope with
at times. Um, but it's a it's a you know,
it's it's a it's a blast. And I just love
that process of trying to create environment where really talented
people can soar, can really excel. One of my favorite
movies growing up, Night Shift Henry Winkler, he goes from
(27:50):
Fonzi and then Michael Keaton, Bill Place, Jowski, Love Broke.
I mean I thought that that movie was I mean,
I if that movie is on, I still sit and
watch Joe kidding. Well, that's thank you. That's high praise.
And because it's pretty old movie now, but but it's
well liked among actors and and comedy writers uh And
(28:11):
and Ganza Mandel who are still at it. There the
Satural page of comedy writers. They were supposed to have been,
you know, um put uh send out to the Pasture
a couple of decades ago, and yet they're they're played
is still full and they're still making the scripts. They
work on Funnier and Sharper, Little Gans and Bob Blue
Mandel and they also did Splash and Parenthood and League
(28:33):
of their own and uh oh, they're doing Mr. Saturday
Night right now for Broadway. So they're with Billy Crystal
in New York preparing to go to Broadway, which happens.
I think this spring to take Henry Winkler from the
character of Arthur Phones, really the Phones and then put
him in a regular role. Was was that something that
(28:54):
you had to try and talk him into doing or
was that something that he wanted to do, because that
care to of being Fonzie on Happy Days was so iconic,
the jacket, the way his character was so specific, and
then it could have been easy for him to just
get totally tight cast to keep doing that, you know,
to go on Laverne and Shirley and Joony loves chat
To and keep that kind of persona. To go into
(29:17):
a completely different role must have been really interesting. Our
friendship has been like one of the foundations of my
adult life, really, and he was always such a believer
in me as a director. Um he's you know, some
years older and and um and definitely took on a
kind of a big brother relationship with me. Highly intelligent,
extremely well educated Yale graduate, um, and yet struck lightning
(29:41):
with this amazing creation of his Arthur Fonzarelli, which was
incredible the when I I had left the show, when
my contract was over and I was directing television movies
and now finally this was to be my first big
studio feature. Brian Grazer, my partner today to this day,
I'd imagine entertain amen. It was going to be his
(30:01):
first feature to produce, and it was his idea and
um um. In fact, in Danza Mendel had been writers
on Happy Days and they had written the script. So,
I mean you could see how much that show kind
of meant to me as a sort of um in
the relationships from the show as a launching pad. But um,
(30:22):
we were having a hard time getting it going, and
a lot of the A listers of the time, they
just kind of turned their nose up on it. In me,
Bill Murray and Chevy Chase, um, you know, Belushi and Akrooid.
We were chasing all of those people, um and and
they just didn't want to go for it um and
(30:43):
probably didn't trust me at that point. I was very
green um and uh. But the but the studio came
to Brian and I and said, if you can get
Henry Winkler. We can get a pre buy from CBS
that will pay for about the movie. So if you
could land Henry um, you know, it's a green light.
(31:09):
So I didn't tell Henry all of that because I
didn't want to put that pressure on him or the conversation.
But I told him we'd love him to be in
the movie. And I said, and it can be either role.
We talked about it, and he would have been great
in the blaze Jowski role, but that would have been
more expected. Um but he was much more like a
Chuck Lumley, much more, much braver, much more courageous than
(31:30):
that by nature. But an intellect, an intellectual, you know,
and and a city guy and and and uh you know,
and just a nice Jewish boy from the Upper West Side,
you know. And and and he read it and he said,
I know I could kill the blaze Jowsky part. And
that's what everybody would probably like me to do, probably
(31:50):
including you. But if you're really giving me a choice,
I'd rather be Chuck. And and of course Michael Keaton
Slade as Bill Good tremendous um and and the show
ere part, you know. And Henry knew that he knew
it was the show your part, but as just as
an actor himself, you know, he wanted to demonstrate that
(32:12):
that range and look, you know he just wanted Emmy
a couple of years ago for Barry. Look at the
look at the career he's had, set happy days aside,
and how many great TV shows has he been like
the you know, the Unexpected Secret Weapon of Apollo thirteen
obviously a huge, huge movie to work with Tom Hanks.
(32:32):
You've worked with Tom on a number of your film
splash Um the Da Vinci Code that the Robert Langdon books.
When you work with actors and you continue to work
with them, is are you thinking about, Okay, I've got
this script. I've worked with this actor before. I think
it would be a great part. Is it because you're
familiar with them, and because you're so familiar with them,
(32:55):
you read these these words on the page and say,
I think this would be great Yeah for him, Yes, absolutely.
And of course you're also thinking about other actors because
I've I've offered things to Tom that he's turned down,
and he sent scripts to me that I didn't think
we're right for me. So you know, there's always a
bit of a back and forth there, and it's never
a foregone conclusion. These decisions are are too big and
(33:19):
they and they you know, they require such a commitment
of time that you know, each and every decision like
that is is a career decision. Um and uh uh.
But when I can work with somebody who I've worked
with before, Um, you know, Paul Bettany is an actor
who I've worked with now three times, three totally different
(33:41):
kinds of characters. Uh, beautiful mind, Vivinci, code and solo
and you know, so I know what his range is.
So if so that's I guess what I would say,
Claude is it's kind of a tiebreaker for me. So
if there are two people, I think they could both
be good and I have chemistry, great creative chemistry with
another individual, you know, I'm very inclined to want to
(34:04):
build on that. And because that's uh to me, Um,
the X factor. Um. You know, I've worked with Russell
Crowe a couple of times. I know what he can deliver.
I haven't worked with him in a while. But if
I had the opportunity to, you know, and I felt
like he was right for it and somebody else was,
you know, I'd lean toward Russell because I I understand
(34:26):
his process and respect it and uh and you know,
and and uh, I feel that way now about Colin Farrell,
uh and Vigo Mortenson and also Joel Edgerton, three guys
who were in Thirteen Lives who I just you know,
it was a very difficult shoot and um, you know,
and they brought great nuance to it. Also a couple
(34:47):
of the Tie actors. Uh, you know, it's more specific
kinds of roles, but I would I would look for
opportunities to cast them, whether the character was supposed to
be Tie or not, because I've just seen within m
Arrange a talent and a charisma that I, you know,
I'd love to benefit from. Again, you know, you mentioned
(35:08):
a beautiful mind. Academy Awards Best Director, Best Picture. Is
that for you? The I mean sports athletes, you know
the Super Bowl, you know, an NBA championship, golfers, the
majors and stuff. Is it does it mean something to
win one? Or do you just are you an artist?
(35:30):
And you're like hell, yes, hell, yes, it means a lot.
Thank you for saying that. Is I would hope that
you want to win, even though it's not as clear
cut as winning a tournament or winning the Super Bowl.
I mean that's a binary thing. You're you're you're facing
an opponent or a field of opponents, and in you
(35:51):
your team you prevail. Well, I mean, you know, the
Oscar nominations came out this year. It's always a contentious,
controversial thing because how can you really compare error. Um,
you know, Belfast and Doomed, you know, both great movies,
but but it is one better than the I mean,
come on, I mean the goals are different in you know,
saying goes for the year that we that we want
(36:13):
for beautiful mind uh and the year we we lost
on Apollo thirteen even though we were nominated. But but
so uh. But nonetheless it's in the record books. It's
a part of our tradition and certainly you know it
means it means a lot um More meaningful. Still more
(36:35):
meaningful is the time you invest in every project because
it's a big chunk of a life and um, and
I choose projects with to some extent, with kind of
what I think the life experience might be around it.
The creative challenge, how much can I grow from this?
Where are we gonna where? How much? How much can
(36:57):
I grow as a person? Where are we going to film?
What's it about? How does how do the thematics of
that story? Um? How can addressing that in some way
inform my future? Um? All of these things factor into
a decision to you know, to to to to work
on a project, and you have to I have to
(37:18):
believe that there's something in it for the audience that
I can. I can bring something of myself to this story.
I can lead a group of actors. I can shape
their performances. I can likewise shape the approach to the
to the cinema of it with the production design and
the music and and and where we shoot and how
(37:38):
we stage and how we should that somehow all I
can can serve the audience in some interesting memorable way. Um.
And so you know that factors in. And once in
a while the economics come into play too. I won't
lie about that. You know, some things you kind of
smell or this is commercial or you know, Um, the
(38:00):
the economics are going to be richer going in, you know,
in terms of guarantees. Sometimes that's a very good thing
for my company along Brian Imagine entertainment. Uh. So you
know it's like any business decision that's a that that
involves like months and years. You know, there are there
are a lot of things that factor into it, but
(38:21):
the one that you really can't get caught chasing is
I bet this could win an award because that is
such a tiny, fragile, little bull's eye that you're that's
a fool's errand to bet on a thing and make
a commitment, um, you know, primarily because of that, that
would be that that wouldn't that that would just lead
(38:42):
to just years of heartbreak. One of the things I
always try and talk to the golfers that I work with,
professionals or amateurs, is this idea of process versts outcome
to where I think sometimes you can get so focused
and and you know, you hyper focus on on an
outcome and you forget that if you stick to the process,
sometimes the outcome can sometimes take care of itself. Is
(39:06):
filmmaking the same to where there is a process to
making it and like you said, if you're thinking, okay,
we could make an Academy Award winning picture, here, can
sometimes that focus make the picture and the process be
you know, not what it could be. I think I
think it could uh um frustrate the process because I
(39:27):
think if you, um, if you apply that as a
kind of a litmus test two decisions you make, you
you might be too conservative. You might you might you
might not be following the sort of the store that
you know. The story speaks to you know, all of
us key creatives in various ways. You I think you
(39:50):
want to be listening to that and thinking about it
as a communication. When I say I think about the audience,
I don't necessarily think about box office numbers. I think
about if somebody takes their time to engage with this,
what are they going to get out of it? What
are they going to understand about this? What's interesting to share?
(40:12):
I always say it's a little bit like, you know,
when you the first time you tell people at a
you know, dinner party or somewhere, uh chatting around, uh,
the coffee machine at work. Uh, you know, like what
your summer was, what the experience you had. It's kind
of awkward. It's you know, there there might be you know,
(40:34):
you might make them smile or think or appreciate something,
but it's a little bit long winded and and a
secuity is getting it as you start to tell that story,
because you want to be good. You know, if they're
going to bother to listen, you want to tell it
well you get better. And I always feel that way
about every scene, that it's a sort of it's a
communication and you want it to be as sharp and
(40:55):
engaging as it can as it can possibly be. But
I think that know it process is key, and I think, um,
I think that over the course of a career, and
I'd say the thing that I'm proud of of is
that that is the sort of the the length of
my career and the and the and the sort of
(41:17):
level of work I've been able to do with you know,
to to qualify, to be able to work with a
list talent, to to get the budgets to allow me
to make you know, sort of high profile projects, and
whether it's movies or television, to be engaged in that way,
that's something I'm incredibly, um incredibly proud of. And I
think it's it's my process that has earned that more
(41:41):
than any one or two really sparkly projects that managed
to click. I I don't think I'm that guy. I
think I'm I'm a sort of a little more of
a grinder. You mentioned movies and television. There used to
be a divide. You were either on TV or you
were in movies. And people that were on TV we're
trying to get on movies. People that were doing movies,
(42:03):
if they had to go back to TV, that was
it seemed like a death sentence. A good friend of
mine's an agent at CIA, and he said, you know,
the great thing about now is the work goes everywhere.
There's great there's great stuff on TV, there's great stuff
in films with Netflix and Hulu. Do you feel as
as as a as an artist and someone that can create,
(42:25):
It's an amazing time because your work can be seen
in any any place and it's it's not going to
be pigeonholed to being TVs or movies. Amazing. I couldn't
agree more. Um. It's also a great time to have
a production company because suddenly, Imagine entertainment finds itself in
the in the kids and family space, and the documentary space,
(42:47):
and and you know, and and all kinds of tones
of TV shows and movies. It's really, um, you know,
it's really thrilling, and uh um, sure there's still some differences,
but certain, you know, it's basically the story can guide
you now, like does it need a movie budget? Can
it be told well in two hours? Is it better
(43:10):
in short form, single setting create the suspense or is
this the kind of character study or mystery that needs
to unfold over hours and hours? Well, now you have
the latitude to do that. You know. Um, there was
a there was a time when you wouldn't think about
should should this be a mini series or or a movie?
(43:31):
If you could make it a movie, you'd compromise the
hell out of it, the integrity of that book just
to make sure you did it on the big screen.
Not the case anymore. If you might, you tell me
you might take a book and say, who knows, today
we might we might take Da Vinci Code and say,
let's make this a season of let's you know, let's
not let's not leave out that we had to leave out.
(43:51):
Let's let's uh, let's let's let's do everything Dan Brown
cooked up and and and make it six hours. Um
and uh, I'm not saying we would have, you know,
I'm not sure, but it would have been a consideration
and uh, and creatively a very different way to approach
that subject matter. Also, I can't I can't overestimate or
(44:15):
overstate the value of all of these different voices from
around the world who are suddenly gaining profile, you know,
through largely through Netflix, UM, but also the other streamers.
And of course there are always been you know, foreign films,
movies with subtitles coming in and yes, an audience that
(44:38):
would appreciate them, but they didn't have that broad distribution
or that kind of marketing. Now UM shows come in, UH,
French shows, Korean shows, whether it squid Game becomes the
most watched, spend the world money, highest, brilliant, cool, you know,
and and these sensibility, believe me, are informing Hollywood and
(45:04):
main mainstream English speaking filmmakers and producers are are turned
on by these shows and challenged creatively by them, and
UM and those directors are getting more and more opportunities
and you know, and to do other kinds of other
kinds of movies and TV shows. So it's a I
(45:26):
keep saying, it's a great time for audiences, it's a
great time for creatives. It's a really confusing time to
be you know, a a a UM an investor or
trying to lead a a a platform or a media corporation,
(45:48):
because really tricky to know you know where to where
to place your bets right now and um, and it's uh,
you know it's it's it's starting to make become a
little more predictable. Um in a funny ways. I think funny,
not funny, unfunny ways, um, interesting ways. The the pandemic
(46:11):
has accelerated. I think trends that UM, popular culture, we're
already following. I watched a lot of art movies when
I was growing up, foreign films, UM. I would always
watch them in subtitles. You you, you didn't have the
the choice to change to get it in English and
have it dubbed over, whereas now Netflix you can get
(46:32):
it pretty much in any language. I found that, you know,
I can't watch if it's Spanish, I have to watch
it in Spanish. If it's French, I have to watch
it in de create the movie to me and the
work plays differently if you're not hearing it in the
original language. I agree, Well, I agree with you, and
that's the way I prefer it. And I think audiences
(46:52):
are learning that. I think that they're providing dubbed versions
all around the world, but I think audiences are suddenly
realizing that Oh no, I can keep up with the
subtitles and I'll pick up actually more nuances glancing at
the subtitles and watching the image. And I can do that.
Whereas you know, if you're not, if you're not accustomed
to it, it it feels like a hell of a chore.
But once you kind of get the hang of it, Yeah,
(47:14):
I'm with you. I think it's uh. I think it's
you know, much better. And it forces everybody to get
off their phone and actually watch the actual actually on
the screen, because if you're watching it in subtitles, you
have to pay attention. Another thing I like about golf
is I don't think you can really do it one handed.
I think I think I don't think you're gonna do
(47:34):
very well out there that way. I think you have
to put it away. Let's talk about golf obviously. I've
got to ask you Caddy Shock, Happy Gil Board, maybe Timcup.
Why are there no great golf movies? Because to me,
the rest of them are just they're awful. Do you
think that Candy Shock was so iconic that the bar
(47:55):
was either so high or so low. Handy Chuck didn't
depend on golf. You didn't have to believe in the
golf Happy Gilmore, you didn't have to believe in the
golf Tin Cup. You did. But Ron Shelton also made
us believe. You know, Bull Durham, and he's a from
an ex professional uh, you know, athlete, and he's been
(48:16):
able to sort of make audiences actually understand and cast
people who look good look good enough you know, playing uh,
to be convincing. It's yeah, it's it's uh. It's a
tough one. You know, these are not usually Like I
made a boxing movie Cinderella Man with Russell Crowe. Well,
(48:40):
for boxing is very difficult because you can't double the people.
They have to really do the fighting, but there's a
lot of illusion involved. They don't have to make the
hard contact. They have to make contact and people get
hurt a little bit doing this sometimes. But uh, but
you know through the training we had Angelo Dundee doing
the training on that film amazing, uh and so forth.
(49:02):
You can you can deal with the drama, but you
have this head to head gladiatorial confrontation and and you
know golf is that you know, it's so much of
it is. You know which which of the great said
it's the six inches the toughest six inches is between
your ears. Yeah, uh, you know, and and that's it's poetic,
(49:25):
it's kind of it's it's a little more zen like.
It's you know, it's it's uh, it's not quite as cinematic. So,
you know, unless you the sport, it's if you can
make the story be about what's going on around the
game and let the characters carry it, whether it's comedy
or drama, then I think you have a chance with
that sport. But it's you know, it's just it's not
(49:47):
Formula one where you know, you've got an engines and
a car hurtling down the track. Yeah, which is already sexy. Yes, yeah,
Um what drew you to golf? And what do you
like about golf as a game and as a sport. Well,
I never I've never gotten good at golf. I got
a little better, you know, playing with read over the years,
(50:09):
and I and I and I have some some swing
thoughts that kind of you know, without really practicing very much. Again,
I'm still that guy that doesn't have to hunt for
his balls so much. But I mean I'm happy to
anytime I break a hundred, I'm pretty happy. Uh. And
so that's kind of where I am and and uh
and most times I don't. But but it doesn't get
much worse than that. Uh. The what I like about
(50:32):
it is it does clear your mind. And whether it's
grabbed my little bag and go out there and and
play six holes and late in the day in the summer,
or meet up with some people and and and and
have a full round. I've never had a bad day
out there. I've never I've always found it. Um Again,
I don't take it too seriously, so you know, if
(50:54):
I if I'm not playing, well it's that's not ruining
my day. But I'm just good enough to be pretty
happy when I make a bar and thrilled when I
make a birdie. So you know, there is a there there,
There is a you know a sense of satisfaction in
the sport. And I like sports. Um. But it's also
again as I said, it's the conversation, it's the it's
(51:17):
the people you meet. I uh um, you know, I
don't always play with people. I know, I show up
and get plugged into a forsome it's fun. You know.
I've never had a bad experience with that in my
you know, in my life. And uh so I just
U I appreciate the kind of zen of it. Uh.
And it's just athletic enough too, you know, and you're
(51:40):
keeping score that you know, it's it pulls you along,
and there's there's there's drama, and like they always say,
is that good shot on the eighteenth keeps you coming back? Absolutely?
Do you and your son read Do you guys get
out as father and son and still go out and
play golf? We still do. Uh and uh And it's
(52:00):
you know, it's it's it's a blast. It was a great,
great thing going through his adolescence. And I was tipped
off to join a country club, which I which I
did by a guy who said, uh, oh, you live
in such and such an area, and uh, you know, uh,
there's there's some pretty good clubs you could join there.
(52:21):
And I said, you know, my wife and I were
just honestly, we traveled so much. Not really a joiner.
He said, yeah, I wasn't either. He said, but golf,
he said, I this is on a red eye instead
of going to sleep. You know. Two fathers started talking
about what it was. And he was a little ahead
of me, and he said, when my kids were going
boys were going through adolescens, there was nothing, no better
place to have a conversation than out on the golf course.
(52:44):
And if it's your membership, they need you to go play.
And uh so I did join a club, and I've
never used it for much of anything else, but my gosh,
it was it was, it's been. It's been a great
thing for the family. And and wherever was that read
and I would go to play. And I played a
(53:04):
lot of rounds with my brother Clint too, and uh
you know, I really cherish a lot of those memories.
Just even as I'm talking to you, I'm thinking of
a lot of summers as the sun's going down, you know,
and we're trying to get that last hole in, and
I'm just really grateful to to be there having that experience. Well,
I can't thank you so much for talking to me. Um,
(53:26):
it's been great. If you find a great golf script,
make a great golf movie, I'll give it a go.
One of these days. Maybe I'll give it a go.
I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Fun talking to you.
Take care of fun. So that was the great Ron Howard,
and listen. When I decided I wanted to do the podcast,
(53:48):
it was to be have the opportunity two interview someone
like him who obviously he's had an amazing career, but
I love what he talked about golf. His son's a golfer,
and UM, yeah, that's the cool thing about having people
talk about what they do and their passion but also
talking about their love for the game of golf. So
(54:08):
I want to thank Ron for coming on. Really really
was something really really cool for me to have the
opportunity to do. Um wanted to talk a little bit
about last week Tampa, the valspar Davis Riley, two time
winner on the corn Ferry, trying to win his first
PGA Tour event. Um, Sam Burns ended up winning back
to back for Sam Burns, but you guys hear me
(54:29):
talk about this all the time, went to a playoff. Um,
they both had a chance to birdie the last hole,
but Davis Riley trouble bogeys par five and loses in
a playoff. And you guys hear me talk about it
every single week. Triples, doubles, big numbers are just so
so destructive. Um, he played a hell of a back
(54:52):
nine to even get a chance to get into a playoff.
But part five that you would be thinking about picking
up strokes, and he just has a train wreck and
it kind of derailed him for a few holes, end
up making a birdie not long after that, but then
had to fight back and try and find a way
to get back into the golf tournament. And it was
(55:13):
really really interesting. I thought afterwards what he said. He said,
and this is a direct quote, he said, just knowing
that I don't have to be perfect to win a
golf tournament was one of the biggest takeaways for me. So, yeah,
you don't have to be perfect. You are going to
make mistakes. But we see it weekend week out. Bogies
you can make doubles, triples, they're really really hard to
(55:33):
come back. And I mean you can do the math.
If he makes a double instead of a triple, he
wins the tournament. He makes a bogey instead of a
double or a triple, he wins the tournament. And so
you can hear me keep talking about it. Double and
triple bogies, the big numbers. It's the easiest way for
you to lower your scores, regardless of your handicapped level.
(55:55):
Um This week the w g C match play in Austin,
and again a king with that same thing we're going
to see hear players. I mean, the last thing you
want to do in match play is get out of
the hole, hit it in the water, hit it out
of bounds, um, and just give holes away to your opponent. Pars,
(56:16):
make your make your opponent make a pot. You make
a bogey, which means your opponent, unless he's knocked it
in their stiff, he's got to find a way to
two pot. He's got to find a way to get
up and down. So again, keeping with the theme of
trying to keep big numbers off the car, in match play,
you definitely want to try and eliminate the big mistakes
to where you're just giving your opponent the whole where
he doesn't even have to do anything. You've hit a
(56:38):
ball out of bounds, you've hit a ball in the water. Um,
you've left two balls and a bunker, and he's got
a forty four and he doesn't even have to do
anything because you're gonna make X and and he's got
a two pot for for par so Um. I like
match play. I think it's fun. I mean, we see
it in the writer cop, see in the President's Cup.
This is the only time we see it on the
(56:59):
PGA Tour. Um, some superstars are gonna get it beat early,
some superstars are gonna stay late. But seemingly every year
we end up with a player who you didn't think
was going to get to the semifinals or the finals,
and it happened in the past, and it's a life changer.
It's it's a chance for someone to win w g
(57:19):
C and you can get hot and we've seen players
just ride really really good form throughout the whole week.
It's course, um that lends itself to match play one
that I'm really excited about. Um. It's a fun week.
It's always fun to be in Austin and I look
forward to seeing what happens at the match played this week.
Big guest next week, we're gonna ahead to tease it.
Got a chance to sit down and talk to Max Homa,
(57:42):
one of the coolest guys on the PGA Tour. I
think everybody is a huge fan of Max. It's a
great pod. It was really cool to get down get
an opportunity to sit down and talk to him. And
one I think you guys are really really going to like.
Of course, m claude Harmon comes to you every Wednesday.
Look forward to seeing you next week. BAT could batatat
It's episode forty six of Off Course with Claude Harmon
always comes to you every Wednesday, seeing as it's Oscar's week.
Who better than Ron Howard, Actor, director, producer, two time
Academy Award winner and his movies his television shows were huge,
huge part of my childhood growing up, and um, he's
(00:32):
just an amazing director. His his films, his television programs
are a huge, huge part of popular culture. But before
we get to Ron, let's start with Cobra Golf. You've
heard me talk about their new lt d X driver
over the last few weeks, but what we haven't talked
about is their limited edition lt d X Black driver
(00:53):
that they dropped on last Friday. It's got the same
technology which blends the best oath world speed distance, low
spin for faster ball speeds, and extreme forgiveness for distance,
but now it's in an all black design which looks
really really sick. To thank all of you for listening
to the pod, we've teamed up with Cobra to give
(01:15):
one of them away this week, and check out my
instagram for more details on how to enter big Thanks
to the Cobra team for making this happen and don't
forget to go to Cobra golf dot com back Slash
ltd x to learn more about the driver. Now let's
get to the interview with Ron Howard. So when I
(01:42):
started the podcast from the idea was to get people
that were obviously in the golf space and then get
people that weren't in the golf space that we're golfers.
And when I heard that you were a golfer, that
your son was trying to play. Um. So much of
my childhood was based around sitting and watching Happy Days
on a whatever night it was. I'm fifty two, so
(02:03):
I still remember sitting in watching Happy Days and it
was it was such a huge part of of my childhood.
And the characters and all the things that you you
guys did on that show. We're just a huge part
of my life growing up. Well, uh, well, thank you.
It was too. When the first air it was it
was Tuesday nights at eight on ABC. Uh and um,
(02:24):
and of course it's it's never gone off the air,
just like the Andy Griffith Show has never been off
the air since nineteen sixty. So, uh, what a remarkable, bizarre,
you know, circumstance to have these uh these shows. Uh
kind of my affiliation with them for for all of
these years. Uh, but they're they're part of like American
(02:47):
kind of pop culture now the characters that you I mean,
is that strange for you to realize that you you
created you know, things that you know have lasted for
so long and all of these things that people still
talk about today. Well, Claude, I feel grateful because I
didn't create them. I was. I was a team. I
was on the team, and I had I had I
(03:09):
had important roles to play and I did him in
the beginning, really with the help of of my dad,
in particular my father. Um, I'll get in a plug here.
We you know, my brother Clinton and I both were
child actors. And we have a book out right now
with HarperCollins called The Boys, a Memoir of of Hollywood
and Family. It's been outside October. It's been doing really well.
(03:32):
We also do the audio book. But it was interesting
to freely focus on these questions, which is really what
the book is about. It's only really about our childhood
in the business and navigating all of it, you know,
into and including um, you know, my time on on
happy days even know that took me into my twenties.
(03:53):
But uh, so the the thing that is really remarkable
about them was not only the just the gift the
blessing of having been associated with these shows that just
happened to endure in this remarkable way. Uh. I was
also surrounded by these these show runners and uh and
(04:13):
uh and actors who made this possible. You know, So
I was I was picking up on a very specific
set of fundamentals. Now there's some critics out there that
would say that I'm still my work as a director,
while a lot more sophisticated and far reaching, UH still
reflects uh some of those qualities. And I think for
(04:37):
a lot of audience members that's a good thing. I
think in some critical critical circles, Uh, they they feel
that somehow I'm a product of a certain kind of
storytelling sensibility, and they think they find it in the
various movies. I think those are personally, I think they're
universal qualities. Uh. And that I've been able that I
learned almost by osmosis and then have just developed over
(05:01):
the years. So that to me, the whole thing is
a is A is a huge blessing and um and
I'm and you know, and something that. I'm just really
proud to have been a part of. The book touches
on the fact. I mean, you came from a family
of actors, people that were in the business, and then
you and your brother. The other thing I love about
your your brother shows up in all of these films
(05:23):
and you always know he's going to show up and Um.
But having grown up in a family of people that
were in the business, so to speak, did you feel
pressured to do that? Because I'm in the same boat.
My dad, my grandfather, all of these people in my family,
they were all golfers. Um. I kind of shunned away
(05:43):
from golf as as a youngster because my entire family was,
you know, it was all golf. I didn't play a
lot of golf growing up. I tried to do other
things and then kind of got into golf late after
I graduated from college. Did you feel you were not
forced into it but it was something that was always
a part of your if you just decided to know, well, no,
I mean, it's it's it's it's different than that. And
(06:06):
I won't go into any detail because again, a lot
of that stuff happens to be in the book. But
but they were outliers because they were not established in
this business. They were from the Midwest, from Oklahoma and Kansas,
and you know, they characterized themselves as sort of Ultimately
once they've been in living in New York and Los
(06:27):
Angeles for a couple of decades, they started to characterize
themselves as sophisticated Hicks. But they were always Hicks, and
they knew it and they owned it. Um. They didn't
play into it. They didn't try to behave that way
like you know, like some people sort of trying to
own their region and make it, uh you know, so
part of their their persona. Now, they didn't do that.
It's just in the sensibility, the work ethic, and the mindset.
(06:50):
But they were the dreamers. They changed the course of
the family history and the path and um, Clinton, I
are the benefit is saries of that because on top
of everything else, not only did they have the guts
to take a shot at chasing this thing, and not
only were they durable enough and just good enough to
actually make it living at it while never reaching stardom. Um,
(07:15):
they you know, they just passed along such great a
great understanding of what was what was exciting about the business,
what was gratifying about the business, about that work, um,
the thrill of creativity, the thrill of participating in a
creative group, you know, endeavor um. And I had a
(07:36):
real aptitude for it, so to Clint, but I really
really loved it. So when I was you know, it
kind of fell into it through my through my dad
very early at age four. I remember I always liked it,
claud I thought it was I thought it was a blast. Uh.
You know, it was never in the way it was
it never was interfering with anything that I'd rather be doing.
(07:59):
I always thought it is just fantastic. And I was
getting a tremendous amount of great feedback um from these adults.
And here's one thing I want to say about a
parallel between sort of what I experienced as a child
and what I saw my son read experience as a junior,
really highly competitive junior golfer college and you know and
(08:20):
young pro um. He was also on the chess circuit
as a kid. He was pretty high ranged as a
junior chess player. Yeah, so he was always competitive and
but not a great not a very academic guy, not
naturally a bright, great curiosity, but not very academic. But
high achieving in these other levels other things. And I'm
(08:40):
telling you, there is something about a young person recognizing
what it takes to excel, what it takes to be
a cut above the rest of the of the gang,
that is incredibly useful. And um, you know, while he
can hinues to pursue avenues of the golf industry, including
(09:03):
playing and it's still very, very competitive, he's also a businessman.
And I see it, and he's winning because he knows
how to win. And uh, and he knows and he knows,
he understands the fundamentals. And one of the first things
that I I loved I played golf. I was an athlete,
hype basketball and baseball player, but I fell into golf.
If anybody knows, they're gonna laugh at the Debelle Golf
(09:24):
Course in Burbank, California, this tiny, little, short, twisty, mountainous
course that is hell hell to play. But but there's
this devoted group of the bellum mainstays. My brothers is
among those um. And so you know, in high school
I started playing out there never any good, never with
(09:45):
any lessons, but enjoyed it. Played quite a bit. What
I would steal away from the from the set if
I had thought I had a few hours and go
over and play nine, and I really liked it, you know.
And I'm just good enough as a natural athlete to
you know, not be hunting from my ball all the time.
But the but, but the um what I saw with
(10:11):
Red and golf as he shifted from hockey and baseball
and all that stuff at around age twelve eleven twelve
into sort of real, real, full focus on golf, um uh,
spurred largely by his love of the movie Happy Gilmour.
So uh but uh, um. You know, the etiquette of
(10:34):
the game and the expectation on even a young player.
If you're out there in a forsom with some other
people who are trying to get a good round in,
and as soon as you get good enough that you're
you're not just the cute little guy playing along. You're
actually a part of a foursome with a rhythm and
a flow and and the rules matter and all that.
(10:55):
That etiquette is spectacular. And then you add on top
of that, it's pretty easy early on to differentiate who's
doing better and getting better and why. And it pretty
much all boils down to work and also knowing who
to listen to, um, you know who to get the
good guidance from. So it's a long winded answer. I
was having that kind of experience as an actor and
(11:17):
as a young man. I was even being told, Hey,
I bet you'd be a director when you grow up.
But I was around at etiquette, a sensibility, a process
that I witnessed and learned to appreciate and enjoy. And
in his own way, um, you know, uh, I felt
that about read and golf in his relationship with the
game and those who play it, and and it's been
(11:39):
very constructive for him, as it was for me. You know,
one of the things I always say to parents. Your
parents will bring their son or their daughter in and
they'll say, listen, you know, you're never going to meet
someone that's going to work harder than my son or
my daughter. And I always say, that's kind of a prerequisite.
I kind of assumed that if they're going to develop
and get better and get to that next level, we
(11:59):
shouldn't have to teach them to work hard. And you know,
you mentioned that your dad and your parents instilled so
much of that, and you know, the critics look at
some of your work and it but it does have
this kind of old school sensibility. Do you think a
lot of that was based off of where your parents
grew up, That kind of old school kind of mentality
(12:20):
that you've been able to bring to to so many
of your films. I think it's their personality. It's also
that sort of uh, you know, earthy Midwestern kind of
common sense, um, you know, approach um. And when I
was learning to act, even on The Andy Griffin Show,
which was a you know, a comedy full on comedy
(12:42):
and and and and even with with with happy Days,
but with other things, one of the things that differentiated
my character Opie on The Andy Griffin Show was that
I was playing that kid for real. I was being
taught to understand what was going on emotionally psychologically with
(13:02):
that kid in a very real way. It wasn't about
a result of getting a comedy rhythm to get a laugh.
It was about the humor uh and the heart um
uh and sometimes the pain of the real situation. And
I have tried. That's I think, and I think Andy
subscribed to that as well. Um. He used to really
(13:25):
dislike shows that we're sort of broad and zany and
and satirical about the South like he you know, frankly,
he didn't love Hill Build, Beverly Hillbuilding. He wasn't crazy
about Petticoat Junction because he felt like those were farces
using the sensibilities of the South. And I remember him
saying many times, we don't have to be that broad.
(13:48):
We don't have to we don't have to be that jokey.
The South is plenty funny on its own if you
just play it for real. Uh. And and but that's
the way that's that's that can be said of of
of uh, you know, of humanity. So my work is
pretty grounded in reality. So there's a kind of a
straightforwardness and a kind of an honesty, even an earnestness
(14:10):
to what I'm doing. And what I'm trying to do
is recreate, through the story and the characterizations, something that
that most characters, that most people in the audience can
relate to. And I I would character I would carry
that over to you know, a kid's fantasy like The
Grange or or Splash or uh, just as much as
(14:33):
I would a drama like Apollo thirteen or Frost Nixon
or Rush or I'm doing I'm just finishing a movie
called Thirteen Lives Um, which is about the rescue and
Thailand of the of the soccer team. I mean, that
was such an unbelievable story, amazing story, and you know again,
I really, I really want audiences to feel like they're
(14:55):
they're alongside it, they understand it. They're not being told
something at arms length. They're getting to experience, you know,
what it was like to be there, what it might
have felt like. And so I, um, you know, I
approached things in a fairly straightforward way, trying to create
that connection between audience and the characters who are living through,
(15:15):
you know, whatever experience of living through, whatever tone the
story might be. We're gonna take a quick break to
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(15:38):
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(16:00):
you to think wisely, drink wisely. Another iconic movie, certainly
of my childhood, and I think of Americana, American Graffiti.
You know, George Lucas, I mean, you know, you're you're
you're part of this ensemble cast, all of which is
so many of those actors at that young stage of
(16:22):
their career, Harrison Ford, Richard Drive, they went on to
do such amazing things when you have a sense when
you're a part of something like that wrong, that yeah,
this is this is going to be special. I've always
wondered that the movie making thing, can you tell that
it's going to be good, that you guys are onto something?
(16:43):
Can you tell that I'm not going in the right direction.
I thought it was good. My dad didn't like that
script at all. Uh, he didn't get it. I did,
um and some of the actors thought it was just
an okay job. It was a little budget, very little budget.
We weren't you know, we're paid just basically a union scale. Uh.
The there was a cinematographer who was helping out a
(17:05):
famous Oscar winning cinematographer and director who passed away a
couple of years ago. Haskell Wexler just really one of
the one of the all time greats. He was helping
George Lucas, really believed in George new Francis Coppela very well.
Francis Ford cople of the Godfather and Apocalypse. Now wasn't
the executive producer and sort of shepherding this movie although
it was George Lucas's vision, you know, all the way. Um,
(17:30):
but uh, you know, I said to Haskell one time
after shooting. We shot all just at night, you know,
so it was these grueling nights and then and then
you'd be riding back to the holiday inn in the
in the in the you know, six six o'clock in
the morning, bleary eyed, and I said, well, what do
you think of this? Uh, Haskell, what do you think
(17:51):
it's gonna be? Says well, he said, it's I think
you George is trying a lot of interesting things, and
I think the cast is good. But you know, it's
two weeks at a theater or drive in and out.
It's it's a you know, it's it's a kid's movie,
it's a team movie. So he never thought it was
gonna be this sort of elevated cinematic achievement, which it was.
(18:11):
It was nominated for a number of Oscars uh and
uh um, you know and as and it really remains,
you know, in people's minds as a real as a
real turning point. And it was because it was so
inventive for what it was, the use of music, the
style of photography, the naturalism of the acting. All of
these were are George. They were all George. And that's
(18:34):
what for me. You never know the outcome. And I
was enough of a veteran even at that point in
my life to recognize that that you just never you
never really know. But I knew I was learning something,
and I knew I was picking up on a sensibility
that was different than what I had experienced as an
actor growing up in Hollywood. It was San Francisco. Everybody there,
(18:57):
you know. Not only were they kind of hippies with
long hair. Not only were there more women on the
crew than I've ever ever seen before, but um, but
they were all film school graduates. They were documentary filmmakers
as well as being you know, working on a crew
of a scripted movie. Um, they're they're almost everyone involved
with the project considered you know, themselves to be filmmakers,
(19:22):
not professional technicians, uh, not lifelong UM Studio employees. And
it was a very different sensibility and it was it
was charged with creativity, and it was exciting and uh,
you know, and I could bridge, I could sort of
bridge both both worlds in a way that's held true
(19:42):
for my career, you know, ever since. I mean, I've
as you know, worked with John Wayne and Henry Fonda
and Early Jones and you know, and Lauren Bacall and
people like that. Um. But I but I've you know,
I've I've also you know, in there with Vigo Mortensen
and uh Russell Crowd, you know, and Rena's Lager and
Nicole Kidman and the you know, the the uh contemporary
(20:08):
group of superstars. You mentioned the music in American Graffiti.
Music is such a huge part of movies now, but
it seemed like up until that point, the kind of
soundtrack and when I remember watching America, you you remember
as much about the scenes and the music and that
combination that's just normal now. I mean, people see movies
now and their soundtracks and people are trying to get
(20:30):
their music. But to be able to kind of see
that the music could help tell that story and put
you a lot of the music in American Graffiti, I thought,
kind of put you felt like the sound of it
put you in that space where you're very perceptive. Because
he wrote the screenplay with those songs in mine and
when it when I went in on the first audition
(20:52):
for it, it was characterized to me as a musical
and and I said, well, I'm not. I don't sing
very well. I know I was in the music man,
but I think they thought it was cute that I
that I was off key, you know, and and uh
but uh they but he said no, no, nobody has
to sing. And I said, but it's a musical. He
said yeah. And he didn't explain anything more about it,
(21:12):
because George was, you know, has always been rather cryptic,
and it was even more so than uh. But um,
that's the way these lateral thinkers, super thinkers tend to
express themselves. Sometimes they can't quite explain it. Um. They
but he wrote the scenes with songs in mind, and
(21:32):
in not every instance, could he actually get the rights
to the song he dreamed of, But he knew that
that it was. And that's look, he said, rock and
Roll was is our American graffiti. And you know, after
World War Two, there was graffiti all over Europe and
it was sort of people expressing themselves, young people expressing themselves.
And so that's why he thought that rock and Roll
(21:54):
was American graffiti. And uh so uh pretty you know,
um uh sort of an intellectual title for a pop movie,
but there you go, and and audiences rose to meet that.
And that's been the other thing that I've really learned
over the years that um, you know, audiences are getting
(22:15):
smarter by the minute, and now that there are so
many options, so many ways to see films and TV
shows from all over the world. Um, you know, audiences
are are are learning to appreciate such a range of
of of storytelling sensibilities and types and it's really cool
(22:36):
and and you know, and but bless them somehow, there's
still love millions of people who want to watch reruns
of the Andy Griffin Show. It's or or Happy Days.
It's kind of it's kind of incredible. But there, you know,
for those who don't. They're not stuck with it. There's
you know, there's there's they're there's great shows from all
over the world Spain, Africa, India, Um, France, Korea. It's unbelievable.
(23:04):
Happy Days was such an iconic part of your early career.
How much of you was in Richie Cunningham the character?
I mean, how much of that kind of mirrored was it?
I know you said you were in your twenties and
Ritchie was supposed to be in high school and stuff,
But was there was there part of you in that character? Well?
I started at at the first pilot was when I
(23:25):
was seventeen and a senior in high school. It didn't sell,
then it sold a couple of years later, so I
was nineteen and uh um, yeah, I was good casting,
Let's put it that way. I was good path I write.
I related to that character. And as they began to
write for that character, they were they were writing in rhythms, cadences,
and even a sensibility that I certainly connected with, um,
(23:47):
you know, and related to. And early on I felt
like my job on Happy Days was similar to what
Andy's had been on the Andy Griffith Show. Andy had
had Barney and aunt b and IVENOPI. Well, you know,
for me, I was sort of a straight man in
the show. And there was Fonsie and there was Potsi
and Ralph and and and and and so I felt
like that was my that was my job. I understood
(24:09):
my role. It was one I was very comfortable with.
But I was already interested in directing, So that was
by then, it was already it was my day job.
It was a great one, um, but it was my
day job because I was already putting myself through a
process of preparing for that opportunity, that breakthrough to become
a director. So I was finding ways two to sort
(24:33):
of lead people. When I was fourteen, and I write
about this in the book a lot too. I we
created a team. My dad was the sort of the
manager because he didn't know much about sports, and I
coached kids baseball and basketball for six years and partly
was fun because I, I you know, enjoyed and it
was all team kind of the bad News bearers. It
was a team made up just of Clinton his buddies, really,
(24:55):
but we did We did pretty well, and I enjoyed coaching.
But even then at four team, when I first started
that I thought, you know, this is gonna be good
for me, because I think if I can control a
bunch of eight or nine year old boys, uh and
work with them, I bet that will help me on
a set someday when I'm trying to deal with, you know,
a difficult actor. Uh. Did you spend a lot of
(25:17):
time when you were acting? Did you spend a lot
of time with all of the other people trying to
kind of learn and with the directors and trying to
hang out there, because I would imagine a lot of
times you're acting and then you're not acting back in
the school because I was, you know in in uh
(25:37):
Andy Griffin show always shot while during the school year,
and so my obligation each day was to go to
the on being the scene and then I had to
get three hours of of of schooling in in twenty
minute chunks during the course of the day. So I've
been a good multitasker ever since, because I learned how
to shift gears, you know, really quickly, and my my
(25:59):
studio teacher demanded that kind of focus, um, and I'm
grateful for it. But when I wasn't doing either of
those things, I definitely was looking through the lens and
learning about you know, the light, the lighting of the
set and the photography, and it didn't end. And observing
the writers and the actors were often allowed to be
(26:19):
a part of a kind of a you know, a
pitch session, a note session where they would discuss story
concerns and lines of dialogue that could be better and
pitch various ideas. And I was included in that even
and and couldn't even participate, which which was really gracious
of them and showed a lot of patients. But I, um,
(26:40):
you know, I was soaking all of that up and um,
and when I did finally direct, um, my first film
at started shooting the day after my twenty three birthday.
It was very comfortable, very comfortable transition because I had
I made a lot of short films by then as well.
But on top of that, I I just understood then
(27:03):
and I still understand the rhythm of a set, the
creative problem, solving the process around it, who does what,
and how to how to get to a solution when
there's a snag. It's an imperfect process. Um, But because
it involves all kinds of factors including you know, weather,
time constraints, money, constraints, personalities, illness, you know, creative limitations
(27:27):
that all of us as artists have to cope with
at times. Um, but it's a it's a you know,
it's it's a it's a blast. And I just love
that process of trying to create environment where really talented
people can soar, can really excel. One of my favorite
movies growing up, Night Shift Henry Winkler, he goes from
(27:50):
Fonzi and then Michael Keaton, Bill Place, Jowski, Love Broke.
I mean I thought that that movie was I mean,
I if that movie is on, I still sit and
watch Joe kidding. Well, that's thank you. That's high praise.
And because it's pretty old movie now, but but it's
well liked among actors and and comedy writers uh And
(28:11):
and Ganza Mandel who are still at it. There the
Satural page of comedy writers. They were supposed to have been,
you know, um put uh send out to the Pasture
a couple of decades ago, and yet they're they're played
is still full and they're still making the scripts. They
work on Funnier and Sharper, Little Gans and Bob Blue
Mandel and they also did Splash and Parenthood and League
(28:33):
of their own and uh oh, they're doing Mr. Saturday
Night right now for Broadway. So they're with Billy Crystal
in New York preparing to go to Broadway, which happens.
I think this spring to take Henry Winkler from the
character of Arthur Phones, really the Phones and then put
him in a regular role. Was was that something that
(28:54):
you had to try and talk him into doing or
was that something that he wanted to do, because that
care to of being Fonzie on Happy Days was so iconic,
the jacket, the way his character was so specific, and
then it could have been easy for him to just
get totally tight cast to keep doing that, you know,
to go on Laverne and Shirley and Joony loves chat
To and keep that kind of persona. To go into
(29:17):
a completely different role must have been really interesting. Our
friendship has been like one of the foundations of my
adult life, really, and he was always such a believer
in me as a director. Um he's you know, some
years older and and um and definitely took on a
kind of a big brother relationship with me. Highly intelligent,
extremely well educated Yale graduate, um, and yet struck lightning
(29:41):
with this amazing creation of his Arthur Fonzarelli, which was
incredible the when I I had left the show, when
my contract was over and I was directing television movies
and now finally this was to be my first big
studio feature. Brian Grazer, my partner today to this day,
I'd imagine entertain amen. It was going to be his
(30:01):
first feature to produce, and it was his idea and
um um. In fact, in Danza Mendel had been writers
on Happy Days and they had written the script. So,
I mean you could see how much that show kind
of meant to me as a sort of um in
the relationships from the show as a launching pad. But um,
(30:22):
we were having a hard time getting it going, and
a lot of the A listers of the time, they
just kind of turned their nose up on it. In me,
Bill Murray and Chevy Chase, um, you know, Belushi and Akrooid.
We were chasing all of those people, um and and
they just didn't want to go for it um and
(30:43):
probably didn't trust me at that point. I was very
green um and uh. But the but the studio came
to Brian and I and said, if you can get
Henry Winkler. We can get a pre buy from CBS
that will pay for about the movie. So if you
could land Henry um, you know, it's a green light.
(31:09):
So I didn't tell Henry all of that because I
didn't want to put that pressure on him or the conversation.
But I told him we'd love him to be in
the movie. And I said, and it can be either role.
We talked about it, and he would have been great
in the blaze Jowski role, but that would have been
more expected. Um but he was much more like a
Chuck Lumley, much more, much braver, much more courageous than
(31:30):
that by nature. But an intellect, an intellectual, you know,
and and a city guy and and and uh you know,
and just a nice Jewish boy from the Upper West Side,
you know. And and and he read it and he said,
I know I could kill the blaze Jowsky part. And
that's what everybody would probably like me to do, probably
(31:50):
including you. But if you're really giving me a choice,
I'd rather be Chuck. And and of course Michael Keaton
Slade as Bill Good tremendous um and and the show
ere part, you know. And Henry knew that he knew
it was the show your part, but as just as
an actor himself, you know, he wanted to demonstrate that
(32:12):
that range and look, you know he just wanted Emmy
a couple of years ago for Barry. Look at the
look at the career he's had, set happy days aside,
and how many great TV shows has he been like
the you know, the Unexpected Secret Weapon of Apollo thirteen
obviously a huge, huge movie to work with Tom Hanks.
(32:32):
You've worked with Tom on a number of your film
splash Um the Da Vinci Code that the Robert Langdon books.
When you work with actors and you continue to work
with them, is are you thinking about, Okay, I've got
this script. I've worked with this actor before. I think
it would be a great part. Is it because you're
familiar with them, and because you're so familiar with them,
(32:55):
you read these these words on the page and say,
I think this would be great Yeah for him, Yes, absolutely.
And of course you're also thinking about other actors because
I've I've offered things to Tom that he's turned down,
and he sent scripts to me that I didn't think
we're right for me. So you know, there's always a
bit of a back and forth there, and it's never
a foregone conclusion. These decisions are are too big and
(33:19):
they and they you know, they require such a commitment
of time that you know, each and every decision like
that is is a career decision. Um and uh uh.
But when I can work with somebody who I've worked
with before, Um, you know, Paul Bettany is an actor
who I've worked with now three times, three totally different
(33:41):
kinds of characters. Uh, beautiful mind, Vivinci, code and solo
and you know, so I know what his range is.
So if so that's I guess what I would say,
Claude is it's kind of a tiebreaker for me. So
if there are two people, I think they could both
be good and I have chemistry, great creative chemistry with
another individual, you know, I'm very inclined to want to
(34:04):
build on that. And because that's uh to me, Um,
the X factor. Um. You know, I've worked with Russell
Crowe a couple of times. I know what he can deliver.
I haven't worked with him in a while. But if
I had the opportunity to, you know, and I felt
like he was right for it and somebody else was,
you know, I'd lean toward Russell because I I understand
(34:26):
his process and respect it and uh and you know,
and and uh, I feel that way now about Colin Farrell,
uh and Vigo Mortenson and also Joel Edgerton, three guys
who were in Thirteen Lives who I just you know,
it was a very difficult shoot and um, you know,
and they brought great nuance to it. Also a couple
(34:47):
of the Tie actors. Uh, you know, it's more specific
kinds of roles, but I would I would look for
opportunities to cast them, whether the character was supposed to
be Tie or not, because I've just seen within m
Arrange a talent and a charisma that I, you know,
I'd love to benefit from. Again, you know, you mentioned
(35:08):
a beautiful mind. Academy Awards Best Director, Best Picture. Is
that for you? The I mean sports athletes, you know
the Super Bowl, you know, an NBA championship, golfers, the
majors and stuff. Is it does it mean something to
win one? Or do you just are you an artist?
(35:30):
And you're like hell, yes, hell, yes, it means a lot.
Thank you for saying that. Is I would hope that
you want to win, even though it's not as clear
cut as winning a tournament or winning the Super Bowl.
I mean that's a binary thing. You're you're you're facing
an opponent or a field of opponents, and in you
(35:51):
your team you prevail. Well, I mean, you know, the
Oscar nominations came out this year. It's always a contentious,
controversial thing because how can you really compare error. Um,
you know, Belfast and Doomed, you know, both great movies,
but but it is one better than the I mean,
come on, I mean the goals are different in you know,
saying goes for the year that we that we want
(36:13):
for beautiful mind uh and the year we we lost
on Apollo thirteen even though we were nominated. But but
so uh. But nonetheless it's in the record books. It's
a part of our tradition and certainly you know it
means it means a lot um More meaningful. Still more
(36:35):
meaningful is the time you invest in every project because
it's a big chunk of a life and um, and
I choose projects with to some extent, with kind of
what I think the life experience might be around it.
The creative challenge, how much can I grow from this?
Where are we gonna where? How much? How much can
(36:57):
I grow as a person? Where are we going to film?
What's it about? How does how do the thematics of
that story? Um? How can addressing that in some way
inform my future? Um? All of these things factor into
a decision to you know, to to to to work
on a project, and you have to I have to
(37:18):
believe that there's something in it for the audience that
I can. I can bring something of myself to this story.
I can lead a group of actors. I can shape
their performances. I can likewise shape the approach to the
to the cinema of it with the production design and
the music and and and where we shoot and how
(37:38):
we stage and how we should that somehow all I
can can serve the audience in some interesting memorable way. Um.
And so you know that factors in. And once in
a while the economics come into play too. I won't
lie about that. You know, some things you kind of
smell or this is commercial or you know, Um, the
(38:00):
the economics are going to be richer going in, you know,
in terms of guarantees. Sometimes that's a very good thing
for my company along Brian Imagine entertainment. Uh. So you
know it's like any business decision that's a that that
involves like months and years. You know, there are there
are a lot of things that factor into it, but
(38:21):
the one that you really can't get caught chasing is
I bet this could win an award because that is
such a tiny, fragile, little bull's eye that you're that's
a fool's errand to bet on a thing and make
a commitment, um, you know, primarily because of that, that
would be that that wouldn't that that would just lead
(38:42):
to just years of heartbreak. One of the things I
always try and talk to the golfers that I work with,
professionals or amateurs, is this idea of process versts outcome
to where I think sometimes you can get so focused
and and you know, you hyper focus on on an
outcome and you forget that if you stick to the process,
sometimes the outcome can sometimes take care of itself. Is
(39:06):
filmmaking the same to where there is a process to
making it and like you said, if you're thinking, okay,
we could make an Academy Award winning picture, here, can
sometimes that focus make the picture and the process be
you know, not what it could be. I think I
think it could uh um frustrate the process because I
(39:27):
think if you, um, if you apply that as a
kind of a litmus test two decisions you make, you
you might be too conservative. You might you might you
might not be following the sort of the store that
you know. The story speaks to you know, all of
us key creatives in various ways. You I think you
(39:50):
want to be listening to that and thinking about it
as a communication. When I say I think about the audience,
I don't necessarily think about box office numbers. I think
about if somebody takes their time to engage with this,
what are they going to get out of it? What
are they going to understand about this? What's interesting to share?
(40:12):
I always say it's a little bit like, you know,
when you the first time you tell people at a
you know, dinner party or somewhere, uh chatting around, uh,
the coffee machine at work. Uh, you know, like what
your summer was, what the experience you had. It's kind
of awkward. It's you know, there there might be you know,
(40:34):
you might make them smile or think or appreciate something,
but it's a little bit long winded and and a
secuity is getting it as you start to tell that story,
because you want to be good. You know, if they're
going to bother to listen, you want to tell it
well you get better. And I always feel that way
about every scene, that it's a sort of it's a
communication and you want it to be as sharp and
(40:55):
engaging as it can as it can possibly be. But
I think that know it process is key, and I think, um,
I think that over the course of a career, and
I'd say the thing that I'm proud of of is
that that is the sort of the the length of
my career and the and the and the sort of
(41:17):
level of work I've been able to do with you know,
to to qualify, to be able to work with a
list talent, to to get the budgets to allow me
to make you know, sort of high profile projects, and
whether it's movies or television, to be engaged in that way,
that's something I'm incredibly, um incredibly proud of. And I
think it's it's my process that has earned that more
(41:41):
than any one or two really sparkly projects that managed
to click. I I don't think I'm that guy. I
think I'm I'm a sort of a little more of
a grinder. You mentioned movies and television. There used to
be a divide. You were either on TV or you
were in movies. And people that were on TV we're
trying to get on movies. People that were doing movies,
(42:03):
if they had to go back to TV, that was
it seemed like a death sentence. A good friend of
mine's an agent at CIA, and he said, you know,
the great thing about now is the work goes everywhere.
There's great there's great stuff on TV, there's great stuff
in films with Netflix and Hulu. Do you feel as
as as a as an artist and someone that can create,
(42:25):
It's an amazing time because your work can be seen
in any any place and it's it's not going to
be pigeonholed to being TVs or movies. Amazing. I couldn't
agree more. Um. It's also a great time to have
a production company because suddenly, Imagine entertainment finds itself in
the in the kids and family space, and the documentary space,
(42:47):
and and you know, and and all kinds of tones
of TV shows and movies. It's really, um, you know,
it's really thrilling, and uh um, sure there's still some differences,
but certain, you know, it's basically the story can guide
you now, like does it need a movie budget? Can
it be told well in two hours? Is it better
(43:10):
in short form, single setting create the suspense or is
this the kind of character study or mystery that needs
to unfold over hours and hours? Well, now you have
the latitude to do that. You know. Um, there was
a there was a time when you wouldn't think about
should should this be a mini series or or a movie?
(43:31):
If you could make it a movie, you'd compromise the
hell out of it, the integrity of that book just
to make sure you did it on the big screen.
Not the case anymore. If you might, you tell me
you might take a book and say, who knows, today
we might we might take Da Vinci Code and say,
let's make this a season of let's you know, let's
not let's not leave out that we had to leave out.
(43:51):
Let's let's uh, let's let's let's do everything Dan Brown
cooked up and and and make it six hours. Um
and uh, I'm not saying we would have, you know,
I'm not sure, but it would have been a consideration
and uh, and creatively a very different way to approach
that subject matter. Also, I can't I can't overestimate or
(44:15):
overstate the value of all of these different voices from
around the world who are suddenly gaining profile, you know,
through largely through Netflix, UM, but also the other streamers.
And of course there are always been you know, foreign films,
movies with subtitles coming in and yes, an audience that
(44:38):
would appreciate them, but they didn't have that broad distribution
or that kind of marketing. Now UM shows come in, UH,
French shows, Korean shows, whether it squid Game becomes the
most watched, spend the world money, highest, brilliant, cool, you know,
and and these sensibility, believe me, are informing Hollywood and
(45:04):
main mainstream English speaking filmmakers and producers are are turned
on by these shows and challenged creatively by them, and
UM and those directors are getting more and more opportunities
and you know, and to do other kinds of other
kinds of movies and TV shows. So it's a I
(45:26):
keep saying, it's a great time for audiences, it's a
great time for creatives. It's a really confusing time to
be you know, a a a UM an investor or
trying to lead a a a platform or a media corporation,
(45:48):
because really tricky to know you know where to where
to place your bets right now and um, and it's uh,
you know it's it's it's starting to make become a
little more predictable. Um in a funny ways. I think funny,
not funny, unfunny ways, um, interesting ways. The the pandemic
(46:11):
has accelerated. I think trends that UM, popular culture, we're
already following. I watched a lot of art movies when
I was growing up, foreign films, UM. I would always
watch them in subtitles. You you, you didn't have the
the choice to change to get it in English and
have it dubbed over, whereas now Netflix you can get
(46:32):
it pretty much in any language. I found that, you know,
I can't watch if it's Spanish, I have to watch
it in Spanish. If it's French, I have to watch
it in de create the movie to me and the
work plays differently if you're not hearing it in the
original language. I agree, Well, I agree with you, and
that's the way I prefer it. And I think audiences
(46:52):
are learning that. I think that they're providing dubbed versions
all around the world, but I think audiences are suddenly
realizing that Oh no, I can keep up with the
subtitles and I'll pick up actually more nuances glancing at
the subtitles and watching the image. And I can do that.
Whereas you know, if you're not, if you're not accustomed
to it, it it feels like a hell of a chore.
But once you kind of get the hang of it, Yeah,
(47:14):
I'm with you. I think it's uh. I think it's
you know, much better. And it forces everybody to get
off their phone and actually watch the actual actually on
the screen, because if you're watching it in subtitles, you
have to pay attention. Another thing I like about golf
is I don't think you can really do it one handed.
I think I think I don't think you're gonna do
(47:34):
very well out there that way. I think you have
to put it away. Let's talk about golf obviously. I've
got to ask you Caddy Shock, Happy Gil Board, maybe Timcup.
Why are there no great golf movies? Because to me,
the rest of them are just they're awful. Do you
think that Candy Shock was so iconic that the bar
(47:55):
was either so high or so low. Handy Chuck didn't
depend on golf. You didn't have to believe in the
golf Happy Gilmore, you didn't have to believe in the
golf Tin Cup. You did. But Ron Shelton also made
us believe. You know, Bull Durham, and he's a from
an ex professional uh, you know, athlete, and he's been
(48:16):
able to sort of make audiences actually understand and cast
people who look good look good enough you know, playing uh,
to be convincing. It's yeah, it's it's uh. It's a
tough one. You know, these are not usually Like I
made a boxing movie Cinderella Man with Russell Crowe. Well,
(48:40):
for boxing is very difficult because you can't double the people.
They have to really do the fighting, but there's a
lot of illusion involved. They don't have to make the
hard contact. They have to make contact and people get
hurt a little bit doing this sometimes. But uh, but
you know through the training we had Angelo Dundee doing
the training on that film amazing, uh and so forth.
(49:02):
You can you can deal with the drama, but you
have this head to head gladiatorial confrontation and and you
know golf is that you know, it's so much of
it is. You know which which of the great said
it's the six inches the toughest six inches is between
your ears. Yeah, uh, you know, and and that's it's poetic,
(49:25):
it's kind of it's it's a little more zen like.
It's you know, it's it's uh, it's not quite as cinematic. So,
you know, unless you the sport, it's if you can
make the story be about what's going on around the
game and let the characters carry it, whether it's comedy
or drama, then I think you have a chance with
that sport. But it's you know, it's just it's not
(49:47):
Formula one where you know, you've got an engines and
a car hurtling down the track. Yeah, which is already sexy. Yes, yeah,
Um what drew you to golf? And what do you
like about golf as a game and as a sport. Well,
I never I've never gotten good at golf. I got
a little better, you know, playing with read over the years,
(50:09):
and I and I and I have some some swing
thoughts that kind of you know, without really practicing very much. Again,
I'm still that guy that doesn't have to hunt for
his balls so much. But I mean I'm happy to
anytime I break a hundred, I'm pretty happy. Uh. And
so that's kind of where I am and and uh
and most times I don't. But but it doesn't get
much worse than that. Uh. The what I like about
(50:32):
it is it does clear your mind. And whether it's
grabbed my little bag and go out there and and
play six holes and late in the day in the summer,
or meet up with some people and and and and
have a full round. I've never had a bad day
out there. I've never I've always found it. Um Again,
I don't take it too seriously, so you know, if
(50:54):
I if I'm not playing, well it's that's not ruining
my day. But I'm just good enough to be pretty
happy when I make a bar and thrilled when I
make a birdie. So you know, there is a there there,
There is a you know a sense of satisfaction in
the sport. And I like sports. Um. But it's also
again as I said, it's the conversation, it's the it's
(51:17):
the people you meet. I uh um, you know, I
don't always play with people. I know, I show up
and get plugged into a forsome it's fun. You know.
I've never had a bad experience with that in my
you know, in my life. And uh so I just
U I appreciate the kind of zen of it. Uh.
And it's just athletic enough too, you know, and you're
(51:40):
keeping score that you know, it's it pulls you along,
and there's there's there's drama, and like they always say,
is that good shot on the eighteenth keeps you coming back? Absolutely?
Do you and your son read Do you guys get
out as father and son and still go out and
play golf? We still do. Uh and uh And it's
(52:00):
you know, it's it's it's a blast. It was a great,
great thing going through his adolescence. And I was tipped
off to join a country club, which I which I
did by a guy who said, uh, oh, you live
in such and such an area, and uh, you know, uh,
there's there's some pretty good clubs you could join there.
(52:21):
And I said, you know, my wife and I were
just honestly, we traveled so much. Not really a joiner.
He said, yeah, I wasn't either. He said, but golf,
he said, I this is on a red eye instead
of going to sleep. You know. Two fathers started talking
about what it was. And he was a little ahead
of me, and he said, when my kids were going
boys were going through adolescens, there was nothing, no better
place to have a conversation than out on the golf course.
(52:44):
And if it's your membership, they need you to go play.
And uh so I did join a club, and I've
never used it for much of anything else, but my gosh,
it was it was, it's been. It's been a great
thing for the family. And and wherever was that read
and I would go to play. And I played a
(53:04):
lot of rounds with my brother Clint too, and uh
you know, I really cherish a lot of those memories.
Just even as I'm talking to you, I'm thinking of
a lot of summers as the sun's going down, you know,
and we're trying to get that last hole in, and
I'm just really grateful to to be there having that experience. Well,
I can't thank you so much for talking to me. Um,
(53:26):
it's been great. If you find a great golf script,
make a great golf movie, I'll give it a go.
One of these days. Maybe I'll give it a go.
I appreciate it. Thank you so much. Fun talking to you.
Take care of fun. So that was the great Ron Howard,
and listen. When I decided I wanted to do the podcast,
(53:48):
it was to be have the opportunity two interview someone
like him who obviously he's had an amazing career, but
I love what he talked about golf. His son's a golfer,
and UM, yeah, that's the cool thing about having people
talk about what they do and their passion but also
talking about their love for the game of golf. So
(54:08):
I want to thank Ron for coming on. Really really
was something really really cool for me to have the
opportunity to do. Um wanted to talk a little bit
about last week Tampa, the valspar Davis Riley, two time
winner on the corn Ferry, trying to win his first
PGA Tour event. Um, Sam Burns ended up winning back
to back for Sam Burns, but you guys hear me
(54:29):
talk about this all the time, went to a playoff. Um,
they both had a chance to birdie the last hole,
but Davis Riley trouble bogeys par five and loses in
a playoff. And you guys hear me talk about it
every single week. Triples, doubles, big numbers are just so
so destructive. Um, he played a hell of a back
(54:52):
nine to even get a chance to get into a playoff.
But part five that you would be thinking about picking
up strokes, and he just has a train wreck and
it kind of derailed him for a few holes, end
up making a birdie not long after that, but then
had to fight back and try and find a way
to get back into the golf tournament. And it was
(55:13):
really really interesting. I thought afterwards what he said. He said,
and this is a direct quote, he said, just knowing
that I don't have to be perfect to win a
golf tournament was one of the biggest takeaways for me. So, yeah,
you don't have to be perfect. You are going to
make mistakes. But we see it weekend week out. Bogies
you can make doubles, triples, they're really really hard to
(55:33):
come back. And I mean you can do the math.
If he makes a double instead of a triple, he
wins the tournament. He makes a bogey instead of a
double or a triple, he wins the tournament. And so
you can hear me keep talking about it. Double and
triple bogies, the big numbers. It's the easiest way for
you to lower your scores, regardless of your handicapped level.
(55:55):
Um This week the w g C match play in Austin,
and again a king with that same thing we're going
to see hear players. I mean, the last thing you
want to do in match play is get out of
the hole, hit it in the water, hit it out
of bounds, um, and just give holes away to your opponent. Pars,
(56:16):
make your make your opponent make a pot. You make
a bogey, which means your opponent, unless he's knocked it
in their stiff, he's got to find a way to
two pot. He's got to find a way to get
up and down. So again, keeping with the theme of
trying to keep big numbers off the car, in match play,
you definitely want to try and eliminate the big mistakes
to where you're just giving your opponent the whole where
he doesn't even have to do anything. You've hit a
(56:38):
ball out of bounds, you've hit a ball in the water. Um,
you've left two balls and a bunker, and he's got
a forty four and he doesn't even have to do
anything because you're gonna make X and and he's got
a two pot for for par so Um. I like
match play. I think it's fun. I mean, we see
it in the writer cop, see in the President's Cup.
This is the only time we see it on the
(56:59):
PGA Tour. Um, some superstars are gonna get it beat early,
some superstars are gonna stay late. But seemingly every year
we end up with a player who you didn't think
was going to get to the semifinals or the finals,
and it happened in the past, and it's a life changer.
It's it's a chance for someone to win w g
(57:19):
C and you can get hot and we've seen players
just ride really really good form throughout the whole week.
It's course, um that lends itself to match play one
that I'm really excited about. Um. It's a fun week.
It's always fun to be in Austin and I look
forward to seeing what happens at the match played this week.
Big guest next week, we're gonna ahead to tease it.
Got a chance to sit down and talk to Max Homa,
(57:42):
one of the coolest guys on the PGA Tour. I
think everybody is a huge fan of Max. It's a
great pod. It was really cool to get down get
an opportunity to sit down and talk to him. And
one I think you guys are really really going to like.
Of course, m claude Harmon comes to you every Wednesday.
Look forward to seeing you next week. BAT could batatat
Host
Josh Martin
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