January 18, 2022 • 44 mins
They say two Brians are better than one… Brian [Baumgartner] sits down with The Office boom operator Brian [Wittle] to talk about the soothing sounds of the show, the uncomfortable positions it took to get those sounds, and Brian Wittle’s namesake character with a bad rap for meddling in true love.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
My name is Brian Whittle, and I was the boom
operator and sometimes sound mixer and one time actor on
the Office. Well, hello everybody, and thank you for joining
us once again here at the Office Deep Dive. As always,
(00:27):
I am your host, Brian Baumgartner, this week's guest. This
is this is cool, okay one. He's the greatest alright.
In fact, he is so great that the writers on
the Office actually named a character after him. Do you
remember the boom operator in season nine, that guy, the
one who almost broke up Jim and Pam. Yep, that's
(00:49):
our guy. Well, that's our guy's name. Today's guest is
Brian Whittle. Now. To be fair, although the real Brian
was also the boom operator for the Office, he did
anything but cause any workplace drama. No, Brian is a gem,
and he's known as one of the best in the business.
He did an impossible thing for many. He mastered the
(01:12):
art of mockumentary sound, dealing with the long takes on
the office, dodging crazy camera angles, and he participated in
the many sound on sound off debates on set. Now,
boom operators are known for their ability to soak up
all of the stories remember they're hearing everything you guys,
(01:37):
Brian is not one to disappoint today he is here
to talk about the art of leaning into imperfection, Steve
Carrell's Silent Airport goodbye, and well, of course, his notorious
namesake on the show, Bryan Whittle. This really is a
special one. I won't keep you waiting as our residents
(02:00):
sound guy. Brian has done enough of that over the years,
so please give a warm welcome to the incredible Brian Whittle.
Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeak on
Bubble and Squeaker cookie at every month left over from
(02:23):
the nabb before. Hello, check, check check. How do I sound?
Five four, three to one. You sound great and exactly
(02:47):
the same as always, Brian. How are you good? Good?
How are you doing? Brian? Oh my gosh, it's so
good to see you. We spent a lot of time
in Type quarters together. We really really did. How's everybody
you're surviving? You're good? Healthy? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing really well.
(03:08):
My kids they're right down the hall. They promised to
be quiet. They understand the importance of sound. Yeah, definitely.
So things are going well, things really well. I'm so
happy to talk to you. There's well, I mean, there
was eventually a very important character on the Office named
(03:29):
after you. We'll talk about that. How did you get
into sound? What was your journey for for getting into sound?
My journey for getting into sound was basically, well, I
moved here with the idea that I think that a
lot of people think that they're gonna be Steven Spielberg.
But I was a little too irresponsible to follow that path,
(03:50):
so I, uh so I ended up doing sound, which
was actually still really awesome. And basically I came here.
I had a friend named Jeff Haley, who was now
a very famous steady cam operator who was doing sound,
the person that I actually grew up with back in Pennsylvania,
and he was doing sound, so he helped me get
into it. I got on this movie called Ed with
(04:12):
Matt le Blanc from Friends and back in the mid nineties,
and that movie was a non union movie that then
struck and turned union, and so I got very lucky.
I got in the union right away. Uh And then
shortly after that I met Ben Patrick, who was Jeff's friend.
He was just starting out to doing sound, but he
was already a mixer and he uh, we did. We
(04:35):
did a bunch of really low budget, really horrible, awful,
hundred dollar a day, you know, crap movies for a
couple of years. But I was already in the Union,
and I just didn't know anybody. Uh in the age
back then there was still a lot of non union
movies you could do. Nowadays, that isn't the case anymore.
But you know, I just made phone calls and met
(04:57):
more people, and uh, eventually at a guy named Forest
Williams who was doing a lot of spelling projects, and
so I got on those and I basically did spelling
shows Melrose Place nine O two and oh oh, not
spelling bees. I didn't. Oh, just that guy, Yeah, yeah,
(05:18):
just him, And I did a bunch of his shows
until about until basically up until I got on The Office,
you know. And then from then on, I was like, Okay,
half hour comedy, it's the way to go. Did Ben
Patrick bring you onto the Office? He did, he did,
and uh not until the very beginning of the third season.
He tried to during the second season. But during the
(05:40):
second season, and you probably remember this, they didn't have
a full order for the whole show. They would say
like we're gonna do two episodes. Oh, we got three more, Oh,
we got two more. And he kept kept calling me.
He's like, come over, come over, come over, because they
kept the boom operators kept quitting on the Office. This
was so hard, you know, because you would do like
already in fifty minute takes, that's that's a long time
(06:03):
to put your arms up you or to be crammed
in a corner, or to be you know, hiding under
something or you know, contorting your body in these weird positions.
But they just didn't have a fore order. But then
when the third season came around, they had a foe order.
They gave me a great offer, and The Office at
the time was my favorite show. So to get a
call to go work on your favorite show for a
(06:25):
full season for a really good rate, I was like, hell, yeah,
I'm all my way. So you were a fan of
the show, watched the first I watched it before I
worked on it. Yeah, So him calling you were like,
let's go. So what was it like showing up there?
Then for the first time on a show that you're
a fan of it. It sounds like you have done
mostly dramas stuff before. You don't want to call spelling drama. Yeah,
(06:48):
so nighttime so guys, which we're pouring as hell. Yeah
yeah yeah. That was my main bread and butter up
until then, which was still fun, but this I knew
it was gonna be ay more fun. And also it
was with Ben, who was one of my closest friends, right,
so yeah, I remember, right, I was very excited, and
uh it was gay. Witch Hunt was the first episode
(07:10):
of season three, which to this day is probably my
favorite episode. And it was incredible, you know, because you
get to see It's like when you watch a show
and you're a fan of it and then you go
visit the set and you see the set and you
see that that line, you know, between your experience of
just being a fan and now suddenly you're like, you know,
behind the curtain and seeing how it all gets put together.
(07:32):
So it was great and uh, I was ecstatic to
be there. So you you were hired at the beginning
of season three, did you note anything right away about
the set and how your job might be a little
more challenging on this show than something before. No, I mean,
the only thing I thought would be more challenging is
just the way it was shot. You know, two handheld
(07:55):
cameras and just with constant resetting of each scene that
we're doing. We run through it, reset, run through it, reset.
And if you remember, we shot on tape, you know,
we had these Sony nine hundreds where you actually put
like a videotape inside the thing, and I believe they
were fifty four minutes long. So that was probably the
scariest thing to me. I was like, oh my god,
(08:17):
we might roll for fifty four minutes. You know. It
was like no longer on the sixth boom operator in
two seasons. So I was like, hope, I can do
this now, do you did you have to do anything
like work out? Kind of? Yeah? I started like, do
made me do it more with push ups and going
to the gym, which I already did, but I just
(08:38):
you know, kind of did it more. And I never
thought of like my job as being something I had
to keep in shape for it until I got to
the office, you know. But the thing was, it was
so much fun that you just didn't feel the pain
until afterwards, you know. Right, So to tell people your
job as the boom operator, talk people through what that
(09:02):
would mean, Like we're in the conference room physically what
described what what that would be like. The conference room
is a unique situation which I'm sure everyone you've talked
to so far has attested to. But basically Nick would
be there too, Nick Carbone, who was the other boom
operator and the person who put everybody's mics on, so
(09:24):
he would generally get whoever is seated, you know, So
we'd both be back on the right side wall and
I would usually be and I'd be in the middle
of the room along one of the windows, and I'd
be reaching out for Steve usually or whoever was addressing
the crowd, and I'd usually get him, and then whoever
sat towards the front, which was usually Dwight, he sat
over by the door kind of right, and whoever else
(09:46):
would come in out of the door. So I would
be reaching out and getting all those people, and then
Nick would be back at the other other side. But
I have to cram against the wall. Yeah, So he's
showing me. So he's got both hands above his head.
He is holding this mike, which is is not particularly heavy.
It's made to try to be as light as possible.
(10:07):
But most shows, you how about I don't know, forty
five minutes of lighting set up and then you shoot
for about ten minutes. And we always joked that our
show was the reverse, right, They would set up for
ten minutes, try not to make the lighting all that beautiful,
(10:27):
and then we would shoot for forty five minutes. So you,
over the course of the day are I don't know,
twelve to fourteen times doing thirty five minute runs with
both of your hands above your head. Yeah, it was
really challenging, to say the least. Um, what a lot
(10:47):
of people have talked about is how confined the space
is much more confined than a normal show. Obviously, on
a lot of shows, their walls that you can move
from our initial pilot show, which was a room that
could not be moved because it was actually production officers.
It was a real room. When we moved to the
(11:10):
sound stage, it was completely reconstructed exactly the same way,
except I think Greg allowed like eighteen inches in the
conference room. It was like eighteen inches for someone to
stand off to the side camera or Yeah, but we
were all in there in a very small space, especially
(11:31):
when we had fourteen, sixteen cast members or whatever in
the room. The two of you, two cameras, I mean,
very very confined space. Especially in that room, or if
we had, say a lot of people in Steve's office
for example, you know that would be even more confined.
(11:52):
Or back in like a corner of the annex, or
in the break room where sometimes I would have to
lay up on top of those vending machines that are
in it. Oh that's right there, scenes where I would
lay up there and boom from up there from just
laying on my side on like a ferny pad or something.
Or I would at least be tucked in the corner
standing on an apple box with that and it's full
(12:14):
extension and I can't have no weight behind me to
leverage or anything. So it's really you know, it's like
tipping you over. Yeah. The other thing that it's become
kind of my go to joke on set, the camera
takes forever to get set the lighting, and anytime there's
a lighting adjustment or like a camera adjustment, it's totally okay,
(12:37):
it's totally appropriate. Everybody stops respectfully and they do their work.
When something happens with sound to the end of the world,
it's like immediately everyone gets so angry. Yeah, right, Like
if you, oh, look, we need to make an adjustment
(12:58):
on Steve's top atrocity. Every Ones like, oh, yeah, I know.
I don't know where that came from or why it
is that way, but it is that way. It's universal
every set. It's universal across all shows of all time.
How does that make you feel? Is it aggravating? Oh yeah,
(13:19):
it used to make me mad, you know, and used
to make me, i don't know, hurt my feelings or whatever.
And I'm like, hey, this is just as important as ever.
We can't shoot unless we do this, so it's it's
it's important. But nowadays it's just it's just funny, you know.
And you know I've been doing this a long time,
and so you just tell them, hey, look we gotta
fix it. Do you want do you want the sound
or not? You know? Well that, as you know, that
(13:43):
has become my joke. Now it's set, which I just
try to exaggerate it because it makes me laugh. I'll
just go waiting on sound, waiting on sound. Everybody. Remember
when we used to say, uh, you're getting carboned because
of Nick, because you would have to come in and
fix the people's mis and we'd be like, oh, we're
(14:05):
getting car boned. Yes, we're getting carboned, and yeah, it
always made him very nervous. He did not like that
particular aspect of the job. I mean, in terms of
(14:34):
the working environment. Being a fan of the show coming on,
did you have any other impressions of I don't know,
other people that you were working with, Greg or know
the cast specifically. Oh yeah, Well, I mean there's a
lot of things that were awesome about working on that show.
And I mean it's hard to honestly talk about that
show without getting emotional because it was such a incredible,
(14:56):
just amazing experience. And I think one real big thing
is that everybody who worked there was a fan of
the show. Everybody who was there love to the show
and cheered and rooted for the show and wanted it
to be successful. And we all looked forward to Thursday,
you know, at eight o'clock that's when it was on, right,
eight o'clock back then when you watch TV when it
(15:17):
was on, you know, everybody looked forward to it being on.
And I can remember that website office tally right. Yeah,
So on Thursday nights at like five o'clock, it's eight
o'clock back east, but we were all on set and
we would all start checking our phones and going on
because all those computers in the bullpen were real and
you could go online, go to office tally and start
(15:37):
seeing the comments from all the fans from all over
the country. That was exciting, you know, to be part
of something that that many people loved and and cheered for,
you know, so that I'd never experienced anything like that
on a show before, you know, where everybody there loved it,
because usually half the crew hates it and half the
crew is like, I'm gonna be here, it sucks. How
(15:58):
long are we going to be here? I never felt
like that on the office ever, no matter how long
the day was, no matter if even if we were
Remember towards the end, we were working on like Saturdays,
and I think we worked on a Sunday, and I
didn't care. It was so much fun that it just,
you know, I didn't It didn't bother me at all. Yeah,
I think that is. I don't think you can overstate
(16:21):
enough how special and also unique that was, because you know,
I say the same thing and people always sort of
laugh when I say I'm a fan of the show
like it regardless of me or my role or any
of that. I shoot plenty of stuff that I don't
ever watch. And it's not because it's bad or because
(16:43):
I don't support it, or it's just I always feels
like weird to go back and watch because there's nothing
I can do. The Office was different because just I
was a fan of the show. It was like, you know,
even though I was there from the beginning, I just
I just love the show. And having the crew also
(17:04):
believe so strongly in what we were doing, Um, I
think made a huge difference. Yeah, no, totally, it does.
It makes a huge difference. And I think a lot
of that came from Greg, because you know, Greg really
embraced the crew and really appreciated them and saw them
as a humongous part. I mean he let people go
(17:24):
to the table read. You know, I can remember going
to the table reads and then be packed. And prior
to that, the table read was like a secret meeting
that no one was allowed to know about and and
or talk about. It was like treated like it was
this big secret. But on the Office everybody went. You know,
if you could fit in the room, you could go.
He would even let whoever is there you read this part,
(17:47):
and you read this little part, you'd be that like
the little day player parts that hadn't been assigned yet
to anybody. And I understand why he wanted an audience
for the have the script read an audience outside of
just the writers that wrote it and the actors. You
want to gauge like how many laughs you get, And
that's really smart in terms of getting feedback for the
initial script. It also makes the crew feel like a
(18:10):
bigger part of the show's got to watch the evolution
of an episode from the table read to watching it
on TV. And I never had that experience before. Yeah,
no one has brought that up, but I think that's
a really good point. I think that there's a there's
a preciousness that we did not have on that show.
(18:32):
So what I mean by that is I think that
show runners bosses are trying to protect writers and if
if something doesn't quite work, they want to let them
work that out almost in private or in as you know,
as close to private as possible with people reading it.
And in that aspect it becomes way more presentational in
(18:54):
a way, even even the delivery of an episode becomes
much more presentational as a moose to collaborative. And I
feel like what you're saying is really true. No one's
talked about that, but yeah, the table reads were totally open.
It was completely open to it. As you said, there's
many people who could actually just fit into Yeah, and
(19:15):
at first or like thinking they're gonna kick me out
of here? Am I allowed to be in here? And
like because I would really love to watch this if
I can, you know? So, yes, it helps. It helps
the camaraderie on the on the set, I don't know,
it just makes it makes the experience a lot more fulfilling. Yeah.
The other thing that it does is it begins to
get your creative energy or your thought sooner as well. Right,
(19:39):
I mean, you know, sound was used quite a bit
as a as a tangible object on our show because
because of the way we shot it and this documentary
slash mockumentary style. How did that affect your job that
aspect of how the show was shot? Well, I mean
we we wired everybody for the most part, mostly as backup.
(20:02):
Or if let's say we were in the bullpen and
we're going to zoom over to accounting, which is generally
the farthest away corner, you know, I can't swing over
there and and boom. Obviously basically Yeah. Honestly, it started
the trend of having to wire every actor on set
all the time, because every show that I've worked on
since The Office, that's what they do. And prior to
(20:25):
the Office, we basically never wired anyone unless it was
a really wide shot or like a walk and talk
down some narrow hallway, or you know, there was some
physical reason why we couldn't boom it. But because of
the Office, it became the norm. In fact, we had
to buy a whole new recording system called a Diva
sixteen that would have sixteen tracks on it so that
we could put all the actors on their own tracks.
(20:48):
It really it started this big thing. And then when
they started up Parks and Wreck, the guys from there
came over to see what we were doing so they
could set it up on that show. Similar with Modern
Family and like all the other shows that were kind
of inspired by our show, you know, they needed to
do this sound the same way. And so from then on,
(21:08):
I can say every single show I've done, I have
to have a multi track recorder with a NIX on
one track and every individual actor on their own track.
After that, and it was never like that prior to
the Office, so that's one thing we did to accommodate
the documentary thing that ended up being a trend. Right.
It's so funny you bring that up. I think, as
(21:30):
you say, it was a progression, and I think that
there were sometimes I thought about this in years. There
were sometimes when you thought, oh, they're not going over
to accounting. They're not going to swing over to accounting
on this thing, And sure enough the bomb garter would
open his trap. Oh yeah. But I would keep my
(21:51):
eye on you, see, I I would want you. I
could tell after a while like Okay, I know what's
going to happen here, Like because after a while I
didn't even memory rise of the scenes anymore. Like I
just would read them once in the morning and be like, okay,
I got it. And I just watch people's faces, or
i'd watch Matt, you know, interact with you. Or I
could just tell from the dialogue like Okay, Kevin's definitely
(22:12):
gonna react to this, you know. And so I would
tell Ben in the mic, would be like, hey, Ben,
Kevin's aba gonna do something after this, you know, or
John is going to do something or whatever, and uh,
you know, after a while we had it down and
we could just kind of predict and it was fun.
What was going to happen? Yeah? No, but I it
reminded me of just sometimes maybe we would do, you know,
(22:34):
a final rehearsal or do the first take, and then
here here would Carbone would come in and we wiring
me up when it was not not an expected moment. Yeah,
I would tell I would like, get in there and
wire and something's going to happen. Yeah. So one thing
I wanted to talk to you about significant sound moments
(22:57):
on the show and what I mean by that we affection,
we call it sound or no sound, and a couple
of moments that that stick out. One is the proposal.
I remember Jim and Pam. Now were you a part
of that discussion. I don't think it was a big
part of it, but I do remember Greg asking me
my opinion. First of all, I've heard the original story
(23:18):
from Dave Rogers, who I think just on a fluke.
He just showed him a version of it. He's like, oh,
we could do it like this, and then he played
it for him with no sound, and then it turned
into this like huge week long or two week long thing,
this big debate we're going to do this sound or not.
But my opinion was whether or not you use this
(23:38):
sound should be determined by how why the shot was.
I was like, look, if you're gonna play the proposal
in a big, giant, wide shot, then it won't be
such a big deal to not hear the sound, because
from a documentary point of view, the audience will think, well,
they're too far away, they didn't have their wires on
or whatever, and you kind of see the traffic right
front of the thing, and you can hear that and
you can tell what's going on. But if you're going
(24:00):
to be tight in and you don't have the sound,
it's gonna look like a mistake. So that was my feeling.
I was like, so, if you're showing their tight shots
or whatever or from the chest up, then you've got
to use this sound because otherwise it's just going to
be distracting and look weird. But I know ultimately they
went with the sound, and I know it was like
the decision was made at the last minute. And if
(24:21):
you talked to Eric Culjyn, he's there was the post
supervisor on that, and I still work with him all
the time, and I know he has the story where
he has both tapes, one in each hand, and they're
like standing in front, like in front of Gregg's house
or in front of the studio or somewhere. They're like,
all right, dude, which one is it going to be?
We got to decide right now. I'm glad he decided
(24:42):
on the sound though. I think that was more satisfying
for the fans. Yeah. So, I've had a lot of
people talk to me about mistakes being okay, really leaning
into the realism of the characters that existed in this
real time and space and dunder myth one and not
wanting to have hair and makeup people sort of constantly
(25:04):
coming in and adjusting, you know, small pieces of hair
or whatever. Was there anything in terms of sound that
was different on this show, Yeah, yeah, I mean especially
early on. I think that they were more on board
with that idea earlier on in the show, and then
as the years went on, we maybe tried to perfect
(25:24):
it a little more. But certainly a boom could be
in the shot, and I think there are some moments
in the second and third season when you see the
boom in the shot and people didn't necessarily have to
be right on Mike, you know, or be perfectly miked.
It could sound off, or it could sound far away,
especially if the person was far away, you know, because
on a scripted show, well this was a scripted show,
(25:46):
but on a real scripted show, your job is to
get everything perfectly and clean and then let post decide
do we want this to sound far away? You know,
and then they change it and alter it to make
it sound however they wanted creatively. But we were able
to kind of just do that in real time if okay,
well we didn't have 't have time to mike him,
and he's running in from this, so we'll just I'll
(26:07):
just queue the boom over that way, and whatever it
sounds like is what it sounds like. So you definitely
have more freedom in that sense, right. Obviously, one of
the huge moments on the show Steve's final goodbye and
him taking off the mic to go into the airport.
Can you talk to me a little bit about that,
(26:28):
how that was achieved and and and your role in that. Sure, well,
we we had, so Greg came over and we talked
about a couple of different ways to do it, and
we even discussed the possibility of Steve handing me the
pack and then I like show it to the camera
and turn it off, and we watched the light flicker
off like sort of like a dramatic kind of thing.
We didn't do that, but we talked about it, and
(26:50):
then in a couple of takes, I know, Matt tiled
it down and you could see my hand come in
and him hand the mike to me when he takes
it off. But that was It was a sad day.
You know. That whole period was just a blubber fest
like for for everybody, you know, and then we had
to go through it again when the show ended, you know,
(27:14):
two years later we all had to cry every day
for a whole week. Yeah, but yeah, that was that
was a big day. You know. It was sad emotionally
and and just to be there and I'm heat when
you see him reach off camera he hands it to me,
so which is kind of a neat moment. I'm like,
he's handing that to me, I'm standing right there, and
he's gone, and he's gone. He walks out, and you
(27:35):
can still kind of hear like muffled you know, airport noises,
which I presumably I guess here for the boom in
a real world, you would still hear the boom, and
and you would hear them a little bit too, although
they were kind of far away. But I still like
what they did, you know, to make it just more dramatic,
I guess. Yeah, the way that our show was shot,
(28:14):
and I think part of it was the spontaneous way
at times the camera moved around, which that obviously made
you have to move around. I mean, I don't think
gymnastics is an exaggeration. I mean we talked already about
you laying on top of the vending machines to be
able to get down, but when the camera was gonna swing,
you had to swing out of the way so you
(28:36):
wouldn't be in the shot. No, I mean we we
would call it like a dance basically, and for the
most part it was just the three of us, just
me and Matt and Randall, and we're just like, Okay,
you're gonna stand here, then I'm gonna stand here, and
then he'll say this, and you walk over here, and
then he does this and I walk over there, and
then we would just work out this dance and memorize
it basically, and do it three or four times. Then everybody,
(28:58):
the real people come in and then we do it
like fifteen times and then we move on to the
next one. You know. It was super fun and sometimes
I could be there. They're whipping through me. You can't
tell I'm there, you know. So there's probably lots of
spots on lots of episodes where I'm in the whip,
or the other camera is in the whip, or Ken
Kappas is in the whip, sitting in the corner at
(29:19):
a little monitor with Veda, you know. But I mean
a lot of times it was just the three of
us on that set, the only crew people there. You know.
Did that give you a closer or different relationship with
the actors then you've had on other shows? Yeah, yeah, definitely.
(29:39):
And I mean just the mere situation of all of
us being in that room all day for you know,
eight months or whatever it is. I mean, you spent
more time with each other than with our families and
our spouses, you know, and that that situation alone makes
you closer. Yeah, But also the intimacy of the nature
(30:02):
of how we shoot and the communication. You know, that's like, Okay,
so you're gonna you're gonna be here, and you want
to walk here, and we gotta you know, we just
gotta stay out of each other's way and let each
other do our job so the scene can happen. It
isn't necessary to communicate that much on a On a
regular working set, you can kind of the hands off
and just do your job. But that wasn't necessarily true
(30:24):
on the office. You know, we kind of had to
really talk to each other. It's occurring to me now
maybe stronger sitting here talking with you again. I don't
recall any other job that I've had where without talking
to a director or a writer or a producer that
I would have conversations with sound you or camera Matt
(30:49):
or Randall and say, hey, I'm gonna do this, make
sure you have made right. That doesn't happen now with
you not saying like let me on that by the
director or no, we just we just just did it
because we were gonna do it a million times. Anyway.
It's to me right now how strange that is, I know,
deciding our own rules as it goes along. Yeah, And
(31:13):
the energy of that is really kind of intoxicating and fun.
It just made it so much fun to be there. Like,
I love watching that opening. I think it's is the
fourth season where Ed is in the elevator and they're
doing that song that no no no, no, no no no,
the opening the fourth season. That day was so much
(31:34):
fun and all we did was that scene. We didn't
do anything else that day. I think we wrapped at
two o'clock. This that was like, just to watch that
is just God. That was just a super, super fun
day and I get that feeling a lot when I
watched the show. Yeah, and my kids watch it now too,
which is great. Oh they do. Yeah, and my son's
really into it. He's thirteen. That sounds right, Yeah, and
(31:57):
he's uh, he's definitely into it. Yeah, watch that in
the Simpsons. Those are two good choices. Give that both
stamped with Greg Daniels. Right. That's so. You appeared on
the show as many of our crew members did Customer Loyalty.
You were a dad, angry dad, I think are annoyed
(32:18):
sitting next to uh to Pam there at CC's recital.
How was that being on camera for you? Are you
glad you did it? Oh? Yeah, that was super fun.
And that stemmed from, you know, the whole introducing the
boom operator as a character and bringing in Chris Diamond
Topolis and me auditioning to play myself and which I
(32:39):
got to do. So I I had an audition in
front of Greg and Alison Jones and read with Jenni
Fisher and you know, I'm not an actor, but Greg
really wanted me to do it, and I was like, well,
I'll try it, you know, we'll see how it goes.
And uh, and they ultimately decided to hire an actual
actor is probably why. But sort of as a as
(33:02):
a joke I think to the fans and as a
thank you to me for like going along with everything,
they gave me a little part in that same episode,
the episode where they introduced him, and oh it was great.
You know that's awesome. Yeah. So you're Brian Whittle character
on the show, real life person, the boom operator, as
(33:24):
you said, played by Chris Do you know how that
idea came about where you involved in discussions so you
were asked an audition for it. But when did you
become aware that that was going to be kind of
a signature moment in the last season. The writers have
been talking about it for at least a few weeks
before that, maybe even a month. They I think for
a long time had wanted someone from the crew to
(33:46):
step through and be part of the show. Why they
chose the boom operator, I don't know. I'm imagining because
if it had been a camera person, then they have
to have a moment where they put down the camera
or hand the camera to someone and they walked over,
so they'd be like that sort of inner option in
the screen. But I think they thought, well, the boom
I could just walk on and it wouldn't be wouldn't
disrupt anything, you know, So maybe that's why they picked him.
(34:08):
But yeah, they were talking for a long time about
what the story was going to be, how he was
going to be, what he was going to be about,
and they would mention it to me on the set,
you know, all we're upstairs talking about you and what
what's gonna happen with your thing and so. And then
eventually they figured it out and they wrote out some
scripts and Greg asked me onto a to audition for it.
You told me after the office you you worked with
(34:30):
Chris Damnontopolis on Silicon Valley. Did you teach him how
to hold the boom or were their aspects of of
you know, of him creating that character that you talked
to him in that moment or now. Yeah, I mean
I just told him he actually had like a different
rig on. He had what's called an E n G setup,
which a documentary person would have, you know, the thing
(34:52):
we wear on your shoulder that you see news people
have or sports people. And uh, I just you know,
just showed him how to wear and how to how
to hold it, so it looked like he knew what
he was doing. I don't think there were too many
shots of him actually working as a sound man. He
just stuff and came in, so it wasn't super important.
But but yeah, he was cool. How do you feel
(35:13):
about the fact that it was you, your name, that
you know, tried to ruin one of the greatest love
stories in television history. I mean, how does that make
you feel today? Uh? It makes me feel great because
I got to be I have a character named after
me on the show. He could have been the most
evil person there. It's still cool. That's awesome. Um. Yeah.
(35:36):
Since The Office, You've done a lot of work with
Mindy Kaling, right, have you worked on the Mendy Project,
Sex Lies of College Girls. You have another little show
called Champions that lasted for one season. We did that
one also, right, you enjoy working with her? Yeah, it's
been great. We did I think six five or six
seasons of the Mindy Project and that's where I got
(35:58):
to move up to sound mixer. So that was great
because I don't have to hold the boom over my
head anymore. And then we went right into her Championship
after that, and then I did Yeah, I did Sex
Lives last year, the pilot. But I've done some of
Jenna's shows too, and or just I did Splitting Up
together with Jenna. I love when our crew. There's nothing
(36:18):
like it showing up somewhere and there's the guys. Um. Anyway,
do you have any any favorite moments from the set
of the Office that you remember? Favorite moments, Um, Yeah,
I have a bunch. I mean, the hardest I ever
laughed and I broke all the time on probably the
(36:40):
same for many is the Christmas episode where you're sitting
on Steve lap Yeah, I mean He's like, just say
some toys, Just say some toys. I mean that, and
plus I have the boom over my head, so I'm
like this and I'm in a really uncomfortable physical position
and it's way out, really long and have the boom
over the two of you and and everybody, everybody is
(37:04):
breaking all over the whole bullpen, and oh god, it
was so funny. It is and I'm like shaking and
trying to hold this thing not drop it. Well, I
realized that you were probably the only other person that
could hear, because you had the mics on and you
were there booming it. But I've said to people afterward,
(37:25):
everyone who was laughing, they don't even know the half
of it. Because there was a sound that he made,
very small that the mics obviously could pick up. But
at the moment I sat down, he made this sound
and it slayed me every time. Now, were you were
(37:47):
you really like sitting on his lap putting all your
weight on him, or were you kind of like but
by the way, and I just did this for some
other dumb bit too. He looked at me after and
he's like, it's not even heavy. It's not when you
see on someone's life. It is not that I promised
next time I see you, I'm gonna sit on your
(38:07):
lap and we're gonna we're gonna try it out. But
he was like, no, it's not that, but oh no,
he he made it seem like it was Oh he
sure did. Well, yeah, who wouldn't. I mean, that's that
you got to do that he did. I mean he
nailed it. It was it was perfect. He nailed most everything. Yeah,
he really did. He was amazing. You mentioned it before
(38:29):
the tears of the finale, when you found out that
the show was ending. How was that for you? Well,
we all, I think we suspected it was coming, and uh,
you might have been there when that time. Gregg came
onto the bus. Remember we were shooting on that bus
and he stepped on and he said, Hey, I just
want to tell you guys, it's going to be announced
(38:50):
on deadline in like ten minutes. He's like, just so
you hear it from me, this is gonna be our
last season. And then he made a comment because there
were still several episodes left, and he made a comment.
He's like, so he says, now that we know this
early on, we can really savor it, right, which was
a really great way to look at it, because it
was sad, but it was like, Okay, at least we
(39:11):
know now it's not gonna be abrupt and we're just gonna,
you know, like some some shows you're like, oh, we're done,
go home, you know. And but but on this show,
it's like we knew, okay, we've got five six whatever
was left episodes and we can really just come into
work every day and really and just love it, you know,
until it's over. Yeah, but yeah, it was sad. It
(39:31):
was sad. I mean you were there, you remember. It
was like every time we're on the set's like, oh
my god, this is the last time we're gonna shoot
in the annex with this person's ending here and this,
and then we din. Then every setup was like this
is the last time we're doing this scenario and this
is the last time we're doing this right, and it
just it was just went on and on and every
scene someone would break, just like fourteen days. Also like
(39:56):
shooting the finale, and that finale, we actually went to
a ton of weird locations. There was the farm, and
there was Kevin's Bar, and there was like the Q
and a thing and you know, all these weird locations
which we never did. And so it was like we
were away for like seven eight days and then we
(40:19):
went back and kind of did you know, the very
end um to finish it off, which I think was
always a great idea. It was. It was right up
till the end, right up to the end. Ye like
to the wrap party like it was like it was.
We went to the rap party right after we wrapped
on Saturday. We were like two hours late. We relate
(40:40):
to our own. That sounds like us. It sounds like us. Um, listen,
I love so much of what you have talked to
me about today and the unique collaboration that we had
between the cast and the crew and the writers and
the producers, and is really a key ingredient I think
(41:02):
to why the show is endured and how it's thrived
now seven eight years later. Um, I'll ask you what
I've asked everyone. Why do you think the show now
is bigger than it was when we were working on it?
What do you think the secret? Sauces Um? Well, the
main reason is is that it's funny. But the sort
(41:23):
of unifying reason is I think it's just because it's
it's just very real while at the same time being outlandish.
You know, everybody has these weird people they work with,
and you know, these people that can be blown up
into caricatures, and that's what this show does. It just
blows up these people you already know into the weird
(41:44):
people that you sort of make fun of them for already,
whether they're that extreme or not. And I think everybody
connects with that. Also, there's just nothing else like it
right now probably and there never will be again. TV
is totally different now. We don't have twenty six episodes
and it's not on the same time, and we don't
all watch it together as a country, and it's just,
(42:04):
you know, it's just a very different thing. And that
was like maybe the last really great, great television show
of that era. And uh, I think that's my people
love it. Brian, Thank you so much. It's so good
to see you. Great to see you too, Thanks for
coming and talking to me. And uh, and you will
live forever Brian Whittle, the man who tried to break
(42:25):
up Jim and Pam. Ladies and gentlemen. Thanks buddy, Sure,
thank you. It's a great time. Brian, Thank you so
(42:46):
much now and I truly meant what I said. You
will live forever both as Brian Whittle the character, but
also you the real Brian Whittle, office lump own genius
and the boom operator who didn't break up one couple,
(43:07):
not even one you broke up Nobody my friend, So
thank you for coming on and of course this isn't
the end. I will be back next week for another
episode of the Office Deep Dive, this one well with
another love interest of Pam actually David Denman a k A.
Roy Get excited and of course uh coming soon my
(43:31):
new podcast, Off the Beat, more stories, more memories, more everything.
I'm going to miss you this week, all right, I
hope you'll miss me, but know that I will see
you soon. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive
(43:52):
produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley.
Our producers are Emily Carr and Diego Tapia, and our
intern is Hannah Harris. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode
was mixed by seth Olandsky
My name is Brian Whittle, and I was the boom
operator and sometimes sound mixer and one time actor on
the Office. Well, hello everybody, and thank you for joining
us once again here at the Office Deep Dive. As always,
(00:27):
I am your host, Brian Baumgartner, this week's guest. This
is this is cool, okay one. He's the greatest alright.
In fact, he is so great that the writers on
the Office actually named a character after him. Do you
remember the boom operator in season nine, that guy, the
one who almost broke up Jim and Pam. Yep, that's
(00:49):
our guy. Well, that's our guy's name. Today's guest is
Brian Whittle. Now. To be fair, although the real Brian
was also the boom operator for the Office, he did
anything but cause any workplace drama. No, Brian is a gem,
and he's known as one of the best in the business.
He did an impossible thing for many. He mastered the
(01:12):
art of mockumentary sound, dealing with the long takes on
the office, dodging crazy camera angles, and he participated in
the many sound on sound off debates on set. Now,
boom operators are known for their ability to soak up
all of the stories remember they're hearing everything you guys,
(01:37):
Brian is not one to disappoint today he is here
to talk about the art of leaning into imperfection, Steve
Carrell's Silent Airport goodbye, and well, of course, his notorious
namesake on the show, Bryan Whittle. This really is a
special one. I won't keep you waiting as our residents
(02:00):
sound guy. Brian has done enough of that over the years,
so please give a warm welcome to the incredible Brian Whittle.
Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeak on
Bubble and Squeaker cookie at every month left over from
(02:23):
the nabb before. Hello, check, check check. How do I sound?
Five four, three to one. You sound great and exactly
(02:47):
the same as always, Brian. How are you good? Good?
How are you doing? Brian? Oh my gosh, it's so
good to see you. We spent a lot of time
in Type quarters together. We really really did. How's everybody
you're surviving? You're good? Healthy? Yeah, yeah, I'm doing really well.
(03:08):
My kids they're right down the hall. They promised to
be quiet. They understand the importance of sound. Yeah, definitely.
So things are going well, things really well. I'm so
happy to talk to you. There's well, I mean, there
was eventually a very important character on the Office named
(03:29):
after you. We'll talk about that. How did you get
into sound? What was your journey for for getting into sound?
My journey for getting into sound was basically, well, I
moved here with the idea that I think that a
lot of people think that they're gonna be Steven Spielberg.
But I was a little too irresponsible to follow that path,
(03:50):
so I, uh so I ended up doing sound, which
was actually still really awesome. And basically I came here.
I had a friend named Jeff Haley, who was now
a very famous steady cam operator who was doing sound,
the person that I actually grew up with back in Pennsylvania,
and he was doing sound, so he helped me get
into it. I got on this movie called Ed with
(04:12):
Matt le Blanc from Friends and back in the mid nineties,
and that movie was a non union movie that then
struck and turned union, and so I got very lucky.
I got in the union right away. Uh And then
shortly after that I met Ben Patrick, who was Jeff's friend.
He was just starting out to doing sound, but he
was already a mixer and he uh, we did. We
(04:35):
did a bunch of really low budget, really horrible, awful,
hundred dollar a day, you know, crap movies for a
couple of years. But I was already in the Union,
and I just didn't know anybody. Uh in the age
back then there was still a lot of non union
movies you could do. Nowadays, that isn't the case anymore.
But you know, I just made phone calls and met
(04:57):
more people, and uh, eventually at a guy named Forest
Williams who was doing a lot of spelling projects, and
so I got on those and I basically did spelling
shows Melrose Place nine O two and oh oh, not
spelling bees. I didn't. Oh, just that guy, Yeah, yeah,
(05:18):
just him, And I did a bunch of his shows
until about until basically up until I got on The Office,
you know. And then from then on, I was like, Okay,
half hour comedy, it's the way to go. Did Ben
Patrick bring you onto the Office? He did, he did,
and uh not until the very beginning of the third season.
He tried to during the second season. But during the
(05:40):
second season, and you probably remember this, they didn't have
a full order for the whole show. They would say
like we're gonna do two episodes. Oh, we got three more, Oh,
we got two more. And he kept kept calling me.
He's like, come over, come over, come over, because they
kept the boom operators kept quitting on the Office. This
was so hard, you know, because you would do like
already in fifty minute takes, that's that's a long time
(06:03):
to put your arms up you or to be crammed
in a corner, or to be you know, hiding under
something or you know, contorting your body in these weird positions.
But they just didn't have a fore order. But then
when the third season came around, they had a foe order.
They gave me a great offer, and The Office at
the time was my favorite show. So to get a
call to go work on your favorite show for a
(06:25):
full season for a really good rate, I was like, hell, yeah,
I'm all my way. So you were a fan of
the show, watched the first I watched it before I
worked on it. Yeah, So him calling you were like,
let's go. So what was it like showing up there?
Then for the first time on a show that you're
a fan of it. It sounds like you have done
mostly dramas stuff before. You don't want to call spelling drama. Yeah,
(06:48):
so nighttime so guys, which we're pouring as hell. Yeah
yeah yeah. That was my main bread and butter up
until then, which was still fun, but this I knew
it was gonna be ay more fun. And also it
was with Ben, who was one of my closest friends, right,
so yeah, I remember, right, I was very excited, and
uh it was gay. Witch Hunt was the first episode
(07:10):
of season three, which to this day is probably my
favorite episode. And it was incredible, you know, because you
get to see It's like when you watch a show
and you're a fan of it and then you go
visit the set and you see the set and you
see that that line, you know, between your experience of
just being a fan and now suddenly you're like, you know,
behind the curtain and seeing how it all gets put together.
(07:32):
So it was great and uh, I was ecstatic to
be there. So you you were hired at the beginning
of season three, did you note anything right away about
the set and how your job might be a little
more challenging on this show than something before. No, I mean,
the only thing I thought would be more challenging is
just the way it was shot. You know, two handheld
(07:55):
cameras and just with constant resetting of each scene that
we're doing. We run through it, reset, run through it, reset.
And if you remember, we shot on tape, you know,
we had these Sony nine hundreds where you actually put
like a videotape inside the thing, and I believe they
were fifty four minutes long. So that was probably the
scariest thing to me. I was like, oh my god,
(08:17):
we might roll for fifty four minutes. You know. It
was like no longer on the sixth boom operator in
two seasons. So I was like, hope, I can do
this now, do you did you have to do anything
like work out? Kind of? Yeah? I started like, do
made me do it more with push ups and going
to the gym, which I already did, but I just
(08:38):
you know, kind of did it more. And I never
thought of like my job as being something I had
to keep in shape for it until I got to
the office, you know. But the thing was, it was
so much fun that you just didn't feel the pain
until afterwards, you know. Right, So to tell people your
job as the boom operator, talk people through what that
(09:02):
would mean, Like we're in the conference room physically what
described what what that would be like. The conference room
is a unique situation which I'm sure everyone you've talked
to so far has attested to. But basically Nick would
be there too, Nick Carbone, who was the other boom
operator and the person who put everybody's mics on, so
(09:24):
he would generally get whoever is seated, you know, So
we'd both be back on the right side wall and
I would usually be and I'd be in the middle
of the room along one of the windows, and I'd
be reaching out for Steve usually or whoever was addressing
the crowd, and I'd usually get him, and then whoever
sat towards the front, which was usually Dwight, he sat
over by the door kind of right, and whoever else
(09:46):
would come in out of the door. So I would
be reaching out and getting all those people, and then
Nick would be back at the other other side. But
I have to cram against the wall. Yeah, So he's
showing me. So he's got both hands above his head.
He is holding this mike, which is is not particularly heavy.
It's made to try to be as light as possible.
(10:07):
But most shows, you how about I don't know, forty
five minutes of lighting set up and then you shoot
for about ten minutes. And we always joked that our
show was the reverse, right, They would set up for
ten minutes, try not to make the lighting all that beautiful,
(10:27):
and then we would shoot for forty five minutes. So you,
over the course of the day are I don't know,
twelve to fourteen times doing thirty five minute runs with
both of your hands above your head. Yeah, it was
really challenging, to say the least. Um, what a lot
(10:47):
of people have talked about is how confined the space
is much more confined than a normal show. Obviously, on
a lot of shows, their walls that you can move
from our initial pilot show, which was a room that
could not be moved because it was actually production officers.
It was a real room. When we moved to the
(11:10):
sound stage, it was completely reconstructed exactly the same way,
except I think Greg allowed like eighteen inches in the
conference room. It was like eighteen inches for someone to
stand off to the side camera or Yeah, but we
were all in there in a very small space, especially
(11:31):
when we had fourteen, sixteen cast members or whatever in
the room. The two of you, two cameras, I mean,
very very confined space. Especially in that room, or if
we had, say a lot of people in Steve's office
for example, you know that would be even more confined.
(11:52):
Or back in like a corner of the annex, or
in the break room where sometimes I would have to
lay up on top of those vending machines that are
in it. Oh that's right there, scenes where I would
lay up there and boom from up there from just
laying on my side on like a ferny pad or something.
Or I would at least be tucked in the corner
standing on an apple box with that and it's full
(12:14):
extension and I can't have no weight behind me to
leverage or anything. So it's really you know, it's like
tipping you over. Yeah. The other thing that it's become
kind of my go to joke on set, the camera
takes forever to get set the lighting, and anytime there's
a lighting adjustment or like a camera adjustment, it's totally okay,
(12:37):
it's totally appropriate. Everybody stops respectfully and they do their work.
When something happens with sound to the end of the world,
it's like immediately everyone gets so angry. Yeah, right, Like
if you, oh, look, we need to make an adjustment
(12:58):
on Steve's top atrocity. Every Ones like, oh, yeah, I know.
I don't know where that came from or why it
is that way, but it is that way. It's universal
every set. It's universal across all shows of all time.
How does that make you feel? Is it aggravating? Oh yeah,
(13:19):
it used to make me mad, you know, and used
to make me, i don't know, hurt my feelings or whatever.
And I'm like, hey, this is just as important as ever.
We can't shoot unless we do this, so it's it's
it's important. But nowadays it's just it's just funny, you know.
And you know I've been doing this a long time,
and so you just tell them, hey, look we gotta
fix it. Do you want do you want the sound
or not? You know? Well that, as you know, that
(13:43):
has become my joke. Now it's set, which I just
try to exaggerate it because it makes me laugh. I'll
just go waiting on sound, waiting on sound. Everybody. Remember
when we used to say, uh, you're getting carboned because
of Nick, because you would have to come in and
fix the people's mis and we'd be like, oh, we're
(14:05):
getting car boned. Yes, we're getting carboned, and yeah, it
always made him very nervous. He did not like that
particular aspect of the job. I mean, in terms of
(14:34):
the working environment. Being a fan of the show coming on,
did you have any other impressions of I don't know,
other people that you were working with, Greg or know
the cast specifically. Oh yeah, Well, I mean there's a
lot of things that were awesome about working on that show.
And I mean it's hard to honestly talk about that
show without getting emotional because it was such a incredible,
(14:56):
just amazing experience. And I think one real big thing
is that everybody who worked there was a fan of
the show. Everybody who was there love to the show
and cheered and rooted for the show and wanted it
to be successful. And we all looked forward to Thursday,
you know, at eight o'clock that's when it was on, right,
eight o'clock back then when you watch TV when it
(15:17):
was on, you know, everybody looked forward to it being on.
And I can remember that website office tally right. Yeah,
So on Thursday nights at like five o'clock, it's eight
o'clock back east, but we were all on set and
we would all start checking our phones and going on
because all those computers in the bullpen were real and
you could go online, go to office tally and start
(15:37):
seeing the comments from all the fans from all over
the country. That was exciting, you know, to be part
of something that that many people loved and and cheered for,
you know, so that I'd never experienced anything like that
on a show before, you know, where everybody there loved it,
because usually half the crew hates it and half the
crew is like, I'm gonna be here, it sucks. How
(15:58):
long are we going to be here? I never felt
like that on the office ever, no matter how long
the day was, no matter if even if we were
Remember towards the end, we were working on like Saturdays,
and I think we worked on a Sunday, and I
didn't care. It was so much fun that it just,
you know, I didn't It didn't bother me at all. Yeah,
I think that is. I don't think you can overstate
(16:21):
enough how special and also unique that was, because you know,
I say the same thing and people always sort of
laugh when I say I'm a fan of the show
like it regardless of me or my role or any
of that. I shoot plenty of stuff that I don't
ever watch. And it's not because it's bad or because
(16:43):
I don't support it, or it's just I always feels
like weird to go back and watch because there's nothing
I can do. The Office was different because just I
was a fan of the show. It was like, you know,
even though I was there from the beginning, I just
I just love the show. And having the crew also
(17:04):
believe so strongly in what we were doing, Um, I
think made a huge difference. Yeah, no, totally, it does.
It makes a huge difference. And I think a lot
of that came from Greg, because you know, Greg really
embraced the crew and really appreciated them and saw them
as a humongous part. I mean he let people go
(17:24):
to the table read. You know, I can remember going
to the table reads and then be packed. And prior
to that, the table read was like a secret meeting
that no one was allowed to know about and and
or talk about. It was like treated like it was
this big secret. But on the Office everybody went. You know,
if you could fit in the room, you could go.
He would even let whoever is there you read this part,
(17:47):
and you read this little part, you'd be that like
the little day player parts that hadn't been assigned yet
to anybody. And I understand why he wanted an audience
for the have the script read an audience outside of
just the writers that wrote it and the actors. You
want to gauge like how many laughs you get, And
that's really smart in terms of getting feedback for the
initial script. It also makes the crew feel like a
(18:10):
bigger part of the show's got to watch the evolution
of an episode from the table read to watching it
on TV. And I never had that experience before. Yeah,
no one has brought that up, but I think that's
a really good point. I think that there's a there's
a preciousness that we did not have on that show.
(18:32):
So what I mean by that is I think that
show runners bosses are trying to protect writers and if
if something doesn't quite work, they want to let them
work that out almost in private or in as you know,
as close to private as possible with people reading it.
And in that aspect it becomes way more presentational in
(18:54):
a way, even even the delivery of an episode becomes
much more presentational as a moose to collaborative. And I
feel like what you're saying is really true. No one's
talked about that, but yeah, the table reads were totally open.
It was completely open to it. As you said, there's
many people who could actually just fit into Yeah, and
(19:15):
at first or like thinking they're gonna kick me out
of here? Am I allowed to be in here? And
like because I would really love to watch this if
I can, you know? So, yes, it helps. It helps
the camaraderie on the on the set, I don't know,
it just makes it makes the experience a lot more fulfilling. Yeah.
The other thing that it does is it begins to
get your creative energy or your thought sooner as well. Right,
(19:39):
I mean, you know, sound was used quite a bit
as a as a tangible object on our show because
because of the way we shot it and this documentary
slash mockumentary style. How did that affect your job that
aspect of how the show was shot? Well, I mean
we we wired everybody for the most part, mostly as backup.
(20:02):
Or if let's say we were in the bullpen and
we're going to zoom over to accounting, which is generally
the farthest away corner, you know, I can't swing over
there and and boom. Obviously basically Yeah. Honestly, it started
the trend of having to wire every actor on set
all the time, because every show that I've worked on
since The Office, that's what they do. And prior to
(20:25):
the Office, we basically never wired anyone unless it was
a really wide shot or like a walk and talk
down some narrow hallway, or you know, there was some
physical reason why we couldn't boom it. But because of
the Office, it became the norm. In fact, we had
to buy a whole new recording system called a Diva
sixteen that would have sixteen tracks on it so that
we could put all the actors on their own tracks.
(20:48):
It really it started this big thing. And then when
they started up Parks and Wreck, the guys from there
came over to see what we were doing so they
could set it up on that show. Similar with Modern
Family and like all the other shows that were kind
of inspired by our show, you know, they needed to
do this sound the same way. And so from then on,
(21:08):
I can say every single show I've done, I have
to have a multi track recorder with a NIX on
one track and every individual actor on their own track.
After that, and it was never like that prior to
the Office, so that's one thing we did to accommodate
the documentary thing that ended up being a trend. Right.
It's so funny you bring that up. I think, as
(21:30):
you say, it was a progression, and I think that
there were sometimes I thought about this in years. There
were sometimes when you thought, oh, they're not going over
to accounting. They're not going to swing over to accounting
on this thing, And sure enough the bomb garter would
open his trap. Oh yeah. But I would keep my
(21:51):
eye on you, see, I I would want you. I
could tell after a while like Okay, I know what's
going to happen here, Like because after a while I
didn't even memory rise of the scenes anymore. Like I
just would read them once in the morning and be like, okay,
I got it. And I just watch people's faces, or
i'd watch Matt, you know, interact with you. Or I
could just tell from the dialogue like Okay, Kevin's definitely
(22:12):
gonna react to this, you know. And so I would
tell Ben in the mic, would be like, hey, Ben,
Kevin's aba gonna do something after this, you know, or
John is going to do something or whatever, and uh,
you know, after a while we had it down and
we could just kind of predict and it was fun.
What was going to happen? Yeah? No, but I it
reminded me of just sometimes maybe we would do, you know,
(22:34):
a final rehearsal or do the first take, and then
here here would Carbone would come in and we wiring
me up when it was not not an expected moment. Yeah,
I would tell I would like, get in there and
wire and something's going to happen. Yeah. So one thing
I wanted to talk to you about significant sound moments
(22:57):
on the show and what I mean by that we affection,
we call it sound or no sound, and a couple
of moments that that stick out. One is the proposal.
I remember Jim and Pam. Now were you a part
of that discussion. I don't think it was a big
part of it, but I do remember Greg asking me
my opinion. First of all, I've heard the original story
(23:18):
from Dave Rogers, who I think just on a fluke.
He just showed him a version of it. He's like, oh,
we could do it like this, and then he played
it for him with no sound, and then it turned
into this like huge week long or two week long thing,
this big debate we're going to do this sound or not.
But my opinion was whether or not you use this
(23:38):
sound should be determined by how why the shot was.
I was like, look, if you're gonna play the proposal
in a big, giant, wide shot, then it won't be
such a big deal to not hear the sound, because
from a documentary point of view, the audience will think, well,
they're too far away, they didn't have their wires on
or whatever, and you kind of see the traffic right
front of the thing, and you can hear that and
you can tell what's going on. But if you're going
(24:00):
to be tight in and you don't have the sound,
it's gonna look like a mistake. So that was my feeling.
I was like, so, if you're showing their tight shots
or whatever or from the chest up, then you've got
to use this sound because otherwise it's just going to
be distracting and look weird. But I know ultimately they
went with the sound, and I know it was like
the decision was made at the last minute. And if
(24:21):
you talked to Eric Culjyn, he's there was the post
supervisor on that, and I still work with him all
the time, and I know he has the story where
he has both tapes, one in each hand, and they're
like standing in front, like in front of Gregg's house
or in front of the studio or somewhere. They're like,
all right, dude, which one is it going to be?
We got to decide right now. I'm glad he decided
(24:42):
on the sound though. I think that was more satisfying
for the fans. Yeah. So, I've had a lot of
people talk to me about mistakes being okay, really leaning
into the realism of the characters that existed in this
real time and space and dunder myth one and not
wanting to have hair and makeup people sort of constantly
(25:04):
coming in and adjusting, you know, small pieces of hair
or whatever. Was there anything in terms of sound that
was different on this show, Yeah, yeah, I mean especially
early on. I think that they were more on board
with that idea earlier on in the show, and then
as the years went on, we maybe tried to perfect
(25:24):
it a little more. But certainly a boom could be
in the shot, and I think there are some moments
in the second and third season when you see the
boom in the shot and people didn't necessarily have to
be right on Mike, you know, or be perfectly miked.
It could sound off, or it could sound far away,
especially if the person was far away, you know, because
on a scripted show, well this was a scripted show,
(25:46):
but on a real scripted show, your job is to
get everything perfectly and clean and then let post decide
do we want this to sound far away? You know,
and then they change it and alter it to make
it sound however they wanted creatively. But we were able
to kind of just do that in real time if okay,
well we didn't have 't have time to mike him,
and he's running in from this, so we'll just I'll
(26:07):
just queue the boom over that way, and whatever it
sounds like is what it sounds like. So you definitely
have more freedom in that sense, right. Obviously, one of
the huge moments on the show Steve's final goodbye and
him taking off the mic to go into the airport.
Can you talk to me a little bit about that,
(26:28):
how that was achieved and and and your role in that. Sure, well,
we we had, so Greg came over and we talked
about a couple of different ways to do it, and
we even discussed the possibility of Steve handing me the
pack and then I like show it to the camera
and turn it off, and we watched the light flicker
off like sort of like a dramatic kind of thing.
We didn't do that, but we talked about it, and
(26:50):
then in a couple of takes, I know, Matt tiled
it down and you could see my hand come in
and him hand the mike to me when he takes
it off. But that was It was a sad day.
You know. That whole period was just a blubber fest
like for for everybody, you know, and then we had
to go through it again when the show ended, you know,
(27:14):
two years later we all had to cry every day
for a whole week. Yeah, but yeah, that was that
was a big day. You know. It was sad emotionally
and and just to be there and I'm heat when
you see him reach off camera he hands it to me,
so which is kind of a neat moment. I'm like,
he's handing that to me, I'm standing right there, and
he's gone, and he's gone. He walks out, and you
(27:35):
can still kind of hear like muffled you know, airport noises,
which I presumably I guess here for the boom in
a real world, you would still hear the boom, and
and you would hear them a little bit too, although
they were kind of far away. But I still like
what they did, you know, to make it just more dramatic,
I guess. Yeah, the way that our show was shot,
(28:14):
and I think part of it was the spontaneous way
at times the camera moved around, which that obviously made
you have to move around. I mean, I don't think
gymnastics is an exaggeration. I mean we talked already about
you laying on top of the vending machines to be
able to get down, but when the camera was gonna swing,
you had to swing out of the way so you
(28:36):
wouldn't be in the shot. No, I mean we we
would call it like a dance basically, and for the
most part it was just the three of us, just
me and Matt and Randall, and we're just like, Okay,
you're gonna stand here, then I'm gonna stand here, and
then he'll say this, and you walk over here, and
then he does this and I walk over there, and
then we would just work out this dance and memorize
it basically, and do it three or four times. Then everybody,
(28:58):
the real people come in and then we do it
like fifteen times and then we move on to the
next one. You know. It was super fun and sometimes
I could be there. They're whipping through me. You can't
tell I'm there, you know. So there's probably lots of
spots on lots of episodes where I'm in the whip,
or the other camera is in the whip, or Ken
Kappas is in the whip, sitting in the corner at
(29:19):
a little monitor with Veda, you know. But I mean
a lot of times it was just the three of
us on that set, the only crew people there. You know.
Did that give you a closer or different relationship with
the actors then you've had on other shows? Yeah, yeah, definitely.
(29:39):
And I mean just the mere situation of all of
us being in that room all day for you know,
eight months or whatever it is. I mean, you spent
more time with each other than with our families and
our spouses, you know, and that that situation alone makes
you closer. Yeah, But also the intimacy of the nature
(30:02):
of how we shoot and the communication. You know, that's like, Okay,
so you're gonna you're gonna be here, and you want
to walk here, and we gotta you know, we just
gotta stay out of each other's way and let each
other do our job so the scene can happen. It
isn't necessary to communicate that much on a On a
regular working set, you can kind of the hands off
and just do your job. But that wasn't necessarily true
(30:24):
on the office. You know, we kind of had to
really talk to each other. It's occurring to me now
maybe stronger sitting here talking with you again. I don't
recall any other job that I've had where without talking
to a director or a writer or a producer that
I would have conversations with sound you or camera Matt
(30:49):
or Randall and say, hey, I'm gonna do this, make
sure you have made right. That doesn't happen now with
you not saying like let me on that by the
director or no, we just we just just did it
because we were gonna do it a million times. Anyway.
It's to me right now how strange that is, I know,
deciding our own rules as it goes along. Yeah, And
(31:13):
the energy of that is really kind of intoxicating and fun.
It just made it so much fun to be there. Like,
I love watching that opening. I think it's is the
fourth season where Ed is in the elevator and they're
doing that song that no no no, no, no no no,
the opening the fourth season. That day was so much
(31:34):
fun and all we did was that scene. We didn't
do anything else that day. I think we wrapped at
two o'clock. This that was like, just to watch that
is just God. That was just a super, super fun
day and I get that feeling a lot when I
watched the show. Yeah, and my kids watch it now too,
which is great. Oh they do. Yeah, and my son's
really into it. He's thirteen. That sounds right, Yeah, and
(31:57):
he's uh, he's definitely into it. Yeah, watch that in
the Simpsons. Those are two good choices. Give that both
stamped with Greg Daniels. Right. That's so. You appeared on
the show as many of our crew members did Customer Loyalty.
You were a dad, angry dad, I think are annoyed
(32:18):
sitting next to uh to Pam there at CC's recital.
How was that being on camera for you? Are you
glad you did it? Oh? Yeah, that was super fun.
And that stemmed from, you know, the whole introducing the
boom operator as a character and bringing in Chris Diamond
Topolis and me auditioning to play myself and which I
(32:39):
got to do. So I I had an audition in
front of Greg and Alison Jones and read with Jenni
Fisher and you know, I'm not an actor, but Greg
really wanted me to do it, and I was like, well,
I'll try it, you know, we'll see how it goes.
And uh, and they ultimately decided to hire an actual
actor is probably why. But sort of as a as
(33:02):
a joke I think to the fans and as a
thank you to me for like going along with everything,
they gave me a little part in that same episode,
the episode where they introduced him, and oh it was great.
You know that's awesome. Yeah. So you're Brian Whittle character
on the show, real life person, the boom operator, as
(33:24):
you said, played by Chris Do you know how that
idea came about where you involved in discussions so you
were asked an audition for it. But when did you
become aware that that was going to be kind of
a signature moment in the last season. The writers have
been talking about it for at least a few weeks
before that, maybe even a month. They I think for
a long time had wanted someone from the crew to
(33:46):
step through and be part of the show. Why they
chose the boom operator, I don't know. I'm imagining because
if it had been a camera person, then they have
to have a moment where they put down the camera
or hand the camera to someone and they walked over,
so they'd be like that sort of inner option in
the screen. But I think they thought, well, the boom
I could just walk on and it wouldn't be wouldn't
disrupt anything, you know, So maybe that's why they picked him.
(34:08):
But yeah, they were talking for a long time about
what the story was going to be, how he was
going to be, what he was going to be about,
and they would mention it to me on the set,
you know, all we're upstairs talking about you and what
what's gonna happen with your thing and so. And then
eventually they figured it out and they wrote out some
scripts and Greg asked me onto a to audition for it.
You told me after the office you you worked with
(34:30):
Chris Damnontopolis on Silicon Valley. Did you teach him how
to hold the boom or were their aspects of of
you know, of him creating that character that you talked
to him in that moment or now. Yeah, I mean
I just told him he actually had like a different
rig on. He had what's called an E n G setup,
which a documentary person would have, you know, the thing
(34:52):
we wear on your shoulder that you see news people
have or sports people. And uh, I just you know,
just showed him how to wear and how to how
to hold it, so it looked like he knew what
he was doing. I don't think there were too many
shots of him actually working as a sound man. He
just stuff and came in, so it wasn't super important.
But but yeah, he was cool. How do you feel
(35:13):
about the fact that it was you, your name, that
you know, tried to ruin one of the greatest love
stories in television history. I mean, how does that make
you feel today? Uh? It makes me feel great because
I got to be I have a character named after
me on the show. He could have been the most
evil person there. It's still cool. That's awesome. Um. Yeah.
(35:36):
Since The Office, You've done a lot of work with
Mindy Kaling, right, have you worked on the Mendy Project,
Sex Lies of College Girls. You have another little show
called Champions that lasted for one season. We did that
one also, right, you enjoy working with her? Yeah, it's
been great. We did I think six five or six
seasons of the Mindy Project and that's where I got
(35:58):
to move up to sound mixer. So that was great
because I don't have to hold the boom over my
head anymore. And then we went right into her Championship
after that, and then I did Yeah, I did Sex
Lives last year, the pilot. But I've done some of
Jenna's shows too, and or just I did Splitting Up
together with Jenna. I love when our crew. There's nothing
(36:18):
like it showing up somewhere and there's the guys. Um. Anyway,
do you have any any favorite moments from the set
of the Office that you remember? Favorite moments, Um, Yeah,
I have a bunch. I mean, the hardest I ever
laughed and I broke all the time on probably the
(36:40):
same for many is the Christmas episode where you're sitting
on Steve lap Yeah, I mean He's like, just say
some toys, Just say some toys. I mean that, and
plus I have the boom over my head, so I'm
like this and I'm in a really uncomfortable physical position
and it's way out, really long and have the boom
over the two of you and and everybody, everybody is
(37:04):
breaking all over the whole bullpen, and oh god, it
was so funny. It is and I'm like shaking and
trying to hold this thing not drop it. Well, I
realized that you were probably the only other person that
could hear, because you had the mics on and you
were there booming it. But I've said to people afterward,
(37:25):
everyone who was laughing, they don't even know the half
of it. Because there was a sound that he made,
very small that the mics obviously could pick up. But
at the moment I sat down, he made this sound
and it slayed me every time. Now, were you were
(37:47):
you really like sitting on his lap putting all your
weight on him, or were you kind of like but
by the way, and I just did this for some
other dumb bit too. He looked at me after and
he's like, it's not even heavy. It's not when you
see on someone's life. It is not that I promised
next time I see you, I'm gonna sit on your
(38:07):
lap and we're gonna we're gonna try it out. But
he was like, no, it's not that, but oh no,
he he made it seem like it was Oh he
sure did. Well, yeah, who wouldn't. I mean, that's that
you got to do that he did. I mean he
nailed it. It was it was perfect. He nailed most everything. Yeah,
he really did. He was amazing. You mentioned it before
(38:29):
the tears of the finale, when you found out that
the show was ending. How was that for you? Well,
we all, I think we suspected it was coming, and uh,
you might have been there when that time. Gregg came
onto the bus. Remember we were shooting on that bus
and he stepped on and he said, Hey, I just
want to tell you guys, it's going to be announced
(38:50):
on deadline in like ten minutes. He's like, just so
you hear it from me, this is gonna be our
last season. And then he made a comment because there
were still several episodes left, and he made a comment.
He's like, so he says, now that we know this
early on, we can really savor it, right, which was
a really great way to look at it, because it
was sad, but it was like, Okay, at least we
(39:11):
know now it's not gonna be abrupt and we're just gonna,
you know, like some some shows you're like, oh, we're done,
go home, you know. And but but on this show,
it's like we knew, okay, we've got five six whatever
was left episodes and we can really just come into
work every day and really and just love it, you know,
until it's over. Yeah, but yeah, it was sad. It
(39:31):
was sad. I mean you were there, you remember. It
was like every time we're on the set's like, oh
my god, this is the last time we're gonna shoot
in the annex with this person's ending here and this,
and then we din. Then every setup was like this
is the last time we're doing this scenario and this
is the last time we're doing this right, and it
just it was just went on and on and every
scene someone would break, just like fourteen days. Also like
(39:56):
shooting the finale, and that finale, we actually went to
a ton of weird locations. There was the farm, and
there was Kevin's Bar, and there was like the Q
and a thing and you know, all these weird locations
which we never did. And so it was like we
were away for like seven eight days and then we
(40:19):
went back and kind of did you know, the very
end um to finish it off, which I think was
always a great idea. It was. It was right up
till the end, right up to the end. Ye like
to the wrap party like it was like it was.
We went to the rap party right after we wrapped
on Saturday. We were like two hours late. We relate
(40:40):
to our own. That sounds like us. It sounds like us. Um, listen,
I love so much of what you have talked to
me about today and the unique collaboration that we had
between the cast and the crew and the writers and
the producers, and is really a key ingredient I think
(41:02):
to why the show is endured and how it's thrived
now seven eight years later. Um, I'll ask you what
I've asked everyone. Why do you think the show now
is bigger than it was when we were working on it?
What do you think the secret? Sauces Um? Well, the
main reason is is that it's funny. But the sort
(41:23):
of unifying reason is I think it's just because it's
it's just very real while at the same time being outlandish.
You know, everybody has these weird people they work with,
and you know, these people that can be blown up
into caricatures, and that's what this show does. It just
blows up these people you already know into the weird
(41:44):
people that you sort of make fun of them for already,
whether they're that extreme or not. And I think everybody
connects with that. Also, there's just nothing else like it
right now probably and there never will be again. TV
is totally different now. We don't have twenty six episodes
and it's not on the same time, and we don't
all watch it together as a country, and it's just,
(42:04):
you know, it's just a very different thing. And that
was like maybe the last really great, great television show
of that era. And uh, I think that's my people
love it. Brian, Thank you so much. It's so good
to see you. Great to see you too, Thanks for
coming and talking to me. And uh, and you will
live forever Brian Whittle, the man who tried to break
(42:25):
up Jim and Pam. Ladies and gentlemen. Thanks buddy, Sure,
thank you. It's a great time. Brian, Thank you so
(42:46):
much now and I truly meant what I said. You
will live forever both as Brian Whittle the character, but
also you the real Brian Whittle, office lump own genius
and the boom operator who didn't break up one couple,
(43:07):
not even one you broke up Nobody my friend, So
thank you for coming on and of course this isn't
the end. I will be back next week for another
episode of the Office Deep Dive, this one well with
another love interest of Pam actually David Denman a k A.
Roy Get excited and of course uh coming soon my
(43:31):
new podcast, Off the Beat, more stories, more memories, more everything.
I'm going to miss you this week, all right, I
hope you'll miss me, but know that I will see
you soon. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive
(43:52):
produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley.
Our producers are Emily Carr and Diego Tapia, and our
intern is Hannah Harris. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode
was mixed by seth Olandsky
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com