September 20, 2022 • 58 mins
Fellow actor, podcast host, and human person Busy Philipps joins Brian to talk about the golden age of teen television, wishing she were with her boyfriend instead of on the set of Dawson’s Creek, and creating her talk show with the help of Merv Griffin’s ghost. Listen to Brian’s episode on Busy Philipps is Doing Her Best here.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And then she called me back and she was like,
you know, Judd is really insistent that they want to
make this character a series regular if the show gets
picked up. I think you should just do it. I
think it's brilliant. Had you read the script? Yeah, I
did not understand it at all. I'M NOT gonna lie.
I'M NOT gonna lie. Totally, Brian, totally. I was like,
don't get it, I don't get what the tone of
(00:21):
this is. I was so confused by it. Hi, my
name is busy Phillips and I'm a human person in
this world. I don't know what I am. Yeah. Well,
(00:48):
hello there everybody, and welcome friends to another episode of
off the beat. It's me, as always, your host, Brian Baumgartner, and,
as you just heard in that sneak peek, I have
my conversation today with a woman who makes me laugh,
busy Phillips, a woman who has been, well, busy get it,
(01:13):
winning hearts on screen since well, since she first appeared
as Kim on cult favorite freaks and Geeks, a show
whose legacy it only lasted one season, but some could
say it is the precursor, it is the the grand
parent to the office. Since then, she's been on everything,
(01:35):
Dawson's Creek, Cougar town, white chicks, and last year she
became an esteemed member of the incredible girls five. Ever,
she also had a late night television show, busy tonight,
that we talked about, and her podcast I was just on.
Busy Phillips is doing her best. She is one of
(01:58):
my favorites. We're going to deep dive into the brain
today of busy Phillips. Bubble and squeak. I love bubble
and SQUIG, bubble and squeaker cookie every moon looked over
(02:19):
from the nut people. What's up, busy? Hi Brian, how
are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm good.
It was my kid's first day of school today. Oh today,
(02:40):
I know, New York is weird. Wow, okay, a random Wednesday. Well,
yesterday it was like an open house kind of day
for the kids, so maybe it was sort of technically yesterday,
but not really, like they just went and saw their
classrooms and then today was like the real start. Well,
(03:01):
that's nice, I guess. Did you get emotional? No, I have.
My kids are old. Okay, what are they doing? Tours
of the room. Then my older one doesn't do like
my older one is in middle school but my little
one is in fourth grade and they still do it
in fourth grade so that they can like see their classroom,
know where they're going on the first day. Like New
(03:23):
York is just so different than Los Angeles. It's crazy
and obviously, obviously, but like I didn't realize that both
kids like get themselves, like they get themselves to school. Oh,
they walk or they well, my older kids walks and
then the little one takes a bus. Wow, I know,
(03:43):
big kids, big kids, big kids. I know, I know,
it's nuts. It's nuts. Um, well, we call this in
the business tip for TAT. I came on your podcast,
which was a delight. Thank you for doing that. No,
I heard I is the best, the best. That's what
people are saying. Yeah, the best guest ever on busy
(04:06):
Phillips is doing her best. Uh, and now I am
so excited to talk to you, but I want to
start back earlier than that. When did you when did
you start becoming involved in the arts or thinking you
might want to perform or be an actor? Well, I mean,
I think, like many of us, it was a thing
(04:31):
that I always had since I was a very, very
small person. You know, I've been a parent now for
a long time, but you know, it really is a
parent a parent, a parent as a parent. It's a
parent to a parent, a parent as a parent. Um that. Yeah,
some kids just gravitate towards being the center of attention,
(04:51):
wanting to perform, wanting to dress up, wanting to do
shows and things, and I was very much that kid.
I also had, uh, pretty intense lisp when I was little,
like little, little kid, and by the time I was
(05:11):
in second and third grade it was still hanging on
and that's when like speech therapists get involved and I
think my mom felt like it was a really good
opportunity to sort of combine a thing that she saw
that I had an interest in with, you know, making
(05:34):
sure that I could say my s is and my
th h s and my rs correctly. So, you know.
So so I got sort of you know, she put
me in some you know, little kid theater programs and
extracurricular stuff. I was never a kid that was very
sporty about you well, as I've gotten older I've become
(05:56):
way more athletic, but I was like not I didn't
want to move. I was like very happy to be
in a cold theater. I also grew up in Arizona.
Brand you don't want to play softball in a hunter
antent decree heat, and they do. I know, the golf
(06:17):
they're like yeah, let's go out, we'll tee, we'll tee
it off at six thirty and it's already a hundred
and two. No, I mean I like I played softball
for two years in elementary school and it was so
hot and I like all the pictures of me are
just like in the outfield laying down like trying to
not pass out from heat exhaustion. So I was very
(06:40):
happy to be in a cold, air conditioned black box
theater and I was really lucky because we found, through
my best friend emily bb, this very cool children's theater,
small children's theater school or whatever in in Scottsdale called
actors lab of Arizona, and they had their like kid
(07:01):
and teen program and the woman that ran it was
really cool, like she just didn't do the usual kid plays,
you know, like she had us write monologues about our
feelings and stuff. Like she really was like into it
and I just knew that I wanted to do it.
I like was very adamant from, I mean, I want
(07:22):
to say, like fourth or fifth grade, that I was
going to move to L A and be an actor
and be in movies and beyond TV shows. Fourth or
fifth grade, you were already there. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
I mean it's interesting that your mom had that insight,
that idea of like Oh, okay, so this is an
(07:44):
issue you're having. Well, let's dive into the pool, like
let's do this and and challenge you in that way,
knowing that you may have feelings about performing or whatever,
but that's very cool. Yeah, I mean my mom also
was a former. My mom wanted to be an actress
when she was young and was the star of all
(08:04):
the school plays. My older sister is four years older
than me and she also did like school plays in
theater and when she was in college was, you know,
in a bunch of shows in college. Um, so it
was like it's definitely like a thing in our in us,
in our family, you know. And just to be clear, though,
(08:27):
for your listeners who don't know me, maybe I'm not
related to anyone famous, but like sometimes a lot of
times people think that I'm part of like the famous
Phillips is from the Mamas and the Papas, like those Philips,
that Phillips Family. I'm not. My Mom's a realtor. She
ended up not being an actor. My Dad's an engineer,
(08:50):
but you know what I mean, like we were just
people who like to perform. Yeah, so she was. She
was always very encouraging and I think she felt like
her parents kind of put the Kai Bash on her
dreams of becoming an actor, and so she did not
want to do that to me or my sister and
(09:10):
she was always super encouraging and supportive, and both my parents.
But like really my mother was like, you know, my
friend Jenny jokes that my mom was like the ultimate
stage mom, and I would say, like that is true
in some respects, but honestly, like when my sister decided
to stop doing it, it wasn't a thing, like it
(09:32):
was just like okay, that you're doing something else now.
She really just wanted to support us in whatever was
making us happy. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know,
I've never talked about it or even thought about this before,
but there's going to be a call to my mom later.
I think my mom might be the same as your mom.
(09:54):
I mean she was a singer, and I think it
may have been her parents that discouraged her as well,
because I've never talked about this. My grandparents, who were
still alive at the time that I moved to Los Angeles,
told my mom that I shouldn't move to Los Angeles
because everyone does drugs out there. Sure. Well. Well, to
(10:16):
be fair, Brian, how how many parties have we been
at where we're just doing the drugs, you and me,
just in the corner? Um I. How did you get
the name busy? You have different answers. I want the
real answer here. The real answer is that it was
it was just like a very natural nickname from Elizabeth
because I was a very busy little baby and my
(10:41):
sister is like four years older than me. I have
a babysitter. I had a babysitter in Chicago, where I
was born and lived the first five years of my life,
who was always calling me busy bath. So then it
just became and it was like immediate. It was by
the time I was a year old old. In my
baby books, everywhere it just calls me busy. At first
(11:03):
it's like, well, busy Beth is learning how to crawl,
like busy Beth and then by the time or busy, busy, bath,
not busy, Lizzy, busy, Liz, busy Beth, and then by
the time I'm a year old, it's just busy, and
then it was busy ever since. So yeah, there you go.
You heard it here. That's the real story, that's the truth.
So you were doing theater very, very early on. What
(11:26):
what led you to L M U, Loyola Mary Mount,
Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, California? Well, a couple
of things. Number One, you know, all teenagers think they
know everything, which is the best and worst part of
being and having a teenager. Let me tell you, Um,
(11:46):
but I knew, but what I knew about being a
professional actor was that if you wanted to do TV
and film, you went to L A, and if you
wanted to do theater or musical theater, you went to
New York. L A was also very close to where
I grew up and went to hi Scottsdale. Yeah, so
(12:06):
I auditioned and got into CAL arts to their Conservatory
Theater Program. But I had a few friends from high
school who had graduated a couple of years earlier than
me who were in the Undergrad Film Department at Loyal
and Marymount University and at the time I graduated from
(12:26):
my school in at the time, elm you was like
quite small. It's not. Now it's like this huge school.
It's so crazy to me and my mom because my
family is like, historically speaking, Catholic. My mother like loves
the JESUITS FOR THE EDUCATION. So I was I was
(12:48):
auditioning for Cal Arts, which is where I thought I
was going to go. I had applied to a s
U as like a backup, and my mom was like
you really should just look at l m you. You
already have friends there. It's in L A. It's not
Kell Erts is like in Valencia. You're not gonna this
isn't what you want. My Mom's not wrong, by the way.
So I went from my audition. I flew out by myself.
(13:10):
My friend Eric, he picked me up, he drove me
to my audition and then we went back to L
M U and I turned in my application there and
like looked around the campus and spent the day there
and I met Gloria Calderon Kellett that day. I met
just a bunch of people and I I don't know
if I met Linda Cardellini that day. But I but
(13:31):
I met her as soon as I got there because
she was already a legend at that school. She was
already a legend. Yeah, for sure. Well, she was like
working like professionally, working before freaks, before even freaks and Geeks.
And so Linda's four years older than me, Um, but
she had taken a gap year to work, but she
(13:53):
was still like living with her college roommates off, like
right off campus, and everybody was in ALD in the
theater department. And so before I even met Linda, I
knew who Linda was because it was like, oh, well,
Linda Cardalini's working. She was on boy meets world. So
she was she was like sort of a legend already
by the time I got there. And then really she's
(14:15):
why I you know, she's why I did freaks and Geeks,
which is like a whole other crazy I'll tell you
that in two seconds. So, but but I just spent
the day there at l m U and then flew
back and I was like I really liked it. I
really liked it, and part of the deal with calerts
was that you sign up to be in this conservatory
acting program and you're not supposed to audition or work
(14:36):
for the four years that you're in that program, and
I just felt like I'd been waiting since fourth grade
to be an actor. I was like I can't do that,
like I need to be able to do it if
I'm gonna do it. And I'm so grateful that I
like thought that way and and I'm you know, and
my mom, I think, was happy that I was getting
(14:57):
that Jesuit Education. I don't for two years anyway. But yeah,
so then I got you know, so then I was
I was at l m U, and then I was
very focused on getting representation, figuring out how to do that.
So you were going to school, but you were also
in the business to like, yeah, you were trying to
find an agent and you were trying to work even
(15:18):
as you started school. Yeah, there were a few of
us in the theater department that were kind of like
savvy in that way, you know. And I felt like
it was already too late. I felt like I had
already like at eighteen and I was like I've already
missed the book, you know what I mean, like I'm
already it's already too I've already missed it. But you
(15:39):
know Colin Hanks? Yeah, I was gonna ask. Were you
friends with him as well or you guys was my boyfriend,
he was your boyfriend. Yeah, you didn't know that for years. Yeah,
we met my first semester, freshman. I don't read US weekly,
don't listen, but Brian, it also like so predates like
celebrity gossip. Yeah, it does kind of, because also we
(15:59):
weren't famous. We were just like two random lmu students
who like got on teen shows at the same time.
No one cared. There's nothing and we're really good friends
now as adults, which is the greatest twist of life
and faith. So that's fantastic. But yeah, we met freshman year,
(16:20):
like my first semester, and started going out. We were
really like we did noises off together. He was the director,
I was Vicky and I had done some like like
had tried to get an agent in Arizona, which was
you know, anytime you're like in one of those smaller
(16:40):
towns and markets, it's not that there's not stuff to
be done or work to be done, it's just it's
a little it's not comparable to what you do. Well, right,
any most of the most of the interesting stuff. They
end up casting out of L A or New York anyway.
So you have an agent that you can't get you
access to anything. That's that's I mean typically, typically, not always.
(17:04):
I had done this like industrial type job for Mattel
toy company, playing a live Barbie doll. Oh my God,
I want the footage. No, because it was like it's
the toy fair and you weren't allowed to film anything,
and also before cameras and phones and camera phones. But
(17:26):
I actually wasn't Barbie. I was they made a doll
from the TV show and movie clueless. They made a
share horrowitz doll. Yes, and so then they dressed me
up like that and then they would bring in the
toy buyers and I would do a whole fifteen pages
of like sales projections and stuff, but in character as
(17:49):
share horro wins, and I killed I was like I
was I really killed it. And I went to New
York twice to do the toy fair for Mattel and Um,
there were tons of Broadway actors because it was like
nine to four. The job was like nine to four
(18:10):
and you got paid. I mean I worked at California
Pizza Kitchen and those two weeks of being a Barbie
for Mattel, I think I made four thousand dollars. Like
as an seventeen year old, I was like that's nothing
to sneeze at. It was a lot of money. But
(18:30):
because of that I had become sort of friends with
this actress named Lisa Guerrero and then ended up being
like a sports like a football commentator. Yeah, okay, I
feel like you know who she is. I know who
that is. Yes, I was inside edition now or something. Okay,
(18:50):
I don't know. Again, I told you I don't read
US weekly, alright, and I literally don't think any of
these things would be in US weekly. I think that.
I don't think there is a publication that would come
to this. This is just for your podcast. Anyway, she
was very sweet and she took me out to lunch
and she was like, well, you'll need representation. She was
(19:12):
the one that told me what the steps were and
then she very sweetly introduced me to her manager at
the time, and this woman was like sure, well, let's see,
let's try, and from there, you know, I auditioned for
an agency and thankfully I had that Calart's audition in
(19:35):
my back pocket. Just went in and did my calarts
audition anyway and they've ended up signing me. And it's
like at every point when I was you know, I
was eighteen and then nineteen when I got freaks and Geeks,
but at every point it was very much like I
could tell the people around me were like well, let's see,
(19:55):
let's okay, sure, let's just see, and the whole time
I was like you'll see, oh, you're gonna see. How
(20:25):
did you meet the folks on Freaks and Geeks? Was
that through your agency? Did they do their job? Oh
my God. Well, what I'm failing to bring up to
you is that the pilot season of was like the
year after Dawson's Creek, was the hugest hit of all time,
and literally every network had seven teen shows that they
(20:52):
were trying to make. So the timing for someone my
age who could play sixteen, who didn't have been better.
I had ninety, something like nine five auditions and callbacks
in the span of three months. Unbelie unbelievable. And also, Brian,
(21:12):
this is before email and I had to drive from
L M U on the four or five to sunset
plaza to pick up my scripts and sides from my
agent's office. They would leave them downstairs in a giant
box for all of their actors and you would go
and you would flip through and find your name and
find your package. It was like I was nonstop living
(21:34):
in my car. I lived in my car. And so
I had auditioned for Alison Jones and had gotten pretty
far but hadn't tested, but had gotten like done a
good job for Roswell, which was the show that Colin
ended up getting, and she brought me in for freaks
and Geeks and I read right for the producers for that.
(21:55):
And so I went in and it was like Jake,
Paul Judd and Alison obviously, and I read the Lindsay
Audition sides. Kim Kelly wasn't a character. Yeah, then, right
before I was about to leave, Paul was like Hey, busy, uh,
you know, we have this other part. Would you mind
taking a look at this and just coming back in
(22:17):
and reading it for us? Uh, it might be interesting.
You know when they do that to you, and on audition,
I'm sure, and you're like a little bummed because you
read for the lead and they're like here's this other
part that we don't even know what it is, but
why don't you look at that? And they're like another
thing I'm not getting. And all I could think of,
(22:39):
because the audition was in the Palisades, was that I
was going to have to drive back on the four,
oh five to L M U, and I was and
it was getting like later and later, and at a
certain point I was like, Oh, fuck it, I'm ready.
I just want to go, like I need to go,
I gotta get out of here, and so it's like
essentially it was essentially a very cold read and that
(23:02):
was it. That was it. Amazing. Did wait. Well, you know, normally,
like when it's a series regular, you test at the network, right,
but they Kim Kelly was just a guest star for
the pilot. They didn't, they hadn't made it a series
regular part. And my agents were like, we don't want
you to do this because you're getting so much attention,
(23:26):
like and so much you're getting so close on things
that we want you to wait for a series regular role.
We think you could like land some really good series
regular role and you don't want to take yourself out
of the rest of pilot season because you're working on
a show, right. But then I went to Pick Up,
I think Colin at the airport and Linda was also there,
picking up her roommate actually, and she had just gotten
(23:50):
the part and she knew that they had they wanted
me for Kim Kelly, and she was like, Dude, can
you believe it? I'm I got freaks and GEEKS. I'm
gonna do it. You gotta be Kim Kelly, and I
was like, I know, I was just talking. I just
it's so exciting, like I just my agents were feeling like,
I don't know, and she's like no, no, no, do
this show. You gotta do this with me. It'll be
(24:12):
so much fun. We'll have so much fun. And I honestly,
in that moment I was like yeah, of course I'm
sucking doing it. Like why would I not do I
already know this girl who's Rad and like I want
to be best friends with anyway. Why would I not
do this? And so I called my manager, Lorraine, and
I was like I really want to do this, and
(24:33):
she's like, I'm gonna Call Judge, I'm gonna find out
what the deal is, and then she called me back
and she was like, you know, Judd is really insistent
that they want to make this character a series regular.
If the show gets picked up, I think you should
just do it. I think it's brilliant. And so, because
of like Lorraine, my manager at the time, and Linda Cardalini,
I was like, I had no idea what I was doing.
(24:54):
Who knows what anything is, you know, they're like Judd
apataw from sick in the head. I'm like, I don't
know what the funk that is like. Had you read
the script? Yeah, I did not understand it at all.
I'M NOT gonna lie. I'M NOT gonna lie. Totally, Brian, totally.
(25:14):
I was like don't get it, I don't get what
the tone of this is. I was so confused by it.
And then I remember they cut together. We had a
pretty long shoot for the pilot. I mean it's a
period piece and it's involved and those were the those
were the olden days of Hollywood where they really spent
a ton of money and like they were shooting on film,
(25:38):
you know. And after we wrapped the pilot that evening,
in the cafeteria of the school we were shooting at,
they rolled out like a little a v Cart and
they had cut together. The editors had just put together
like a tiny little mishmash of the show for all
of us to see what we've been working on, which, honestly,
(26:01):
also in retrospect, is so special because so yeah, I
mean if your show doesn't get picked up, the crew
literally never sees the show. I mean, I don't know
about you, I've done pilots that I still haven't seen, right, right,
I mean I've done shows that I've never seen, but
that's a different issue. That is a different issue, I
(26:21):
would say. But anyway, it was so special and I
remember watching this thing that they put together and they
had the come sale away song, you know, like Crescendo, Ng,
and I got full chills and I was like this
is what we've been doing. Oh my God, this is real.
Like my mind, I'M gonna start crying, but like my
(26:44):
little brain was blown like this is what I've wanted
to do since I was a baby, and there I
am and I don't even look like me and I
don't sound like me and it's real. Yeah, that was
that wow. Were you away are at that moment that
the show was special or doing something new, or did
(27:04):
your little brain not comprehend that at the at the time?
I mean that whole experience is so has had so
many different incarnations of what it was and what it
is and what it continues to be. So it's funny,
you know, like we had such an amazing time while
we were doing it and the freedom that Judd and
(27:27):
Paul and Leslie Gladder, like all of our directors, they
gave us such a gift that we were all way
too inexperienced and young to understand at the in the moment,
I think. But we all enjoyed it very much. I
mean I don't remember, aside from like my personality conflict
(27:49):
with Franco, like I don't remember ever having like a
complaint about anything having to do with it. Late nights
were Super Fun. Early Mornings were Super Fun. We would
hang out, we would go to swingers and get food
at midnight. After we wrapped like together, we would go
to birds on Franklin where segull convinced me that the
(28:15):
scientology building had a tower of terror ride inside of it,
and I believed him for like ten minutes. I really
thought it was true, and south was like come on,
it's not true and I was like, I don't know,
it looks like it has one of those rides in it,
you know, like a drum. I was like what, we
(28:36):
don't know anyway. Um, so it's really fun, you know.
And I think and when the show was over and
it became clear like that it was going to be over, over,
I wasn't ready for it to be and I wanted
it to continue. I was really, really sad and really
disheartened and and and I did feel in a moment
(29:00):
already like, but we made something so good. Why is
this hat why is this fair? I mean, and again
that's the best lesson you can learn as an actor.
It's like, actually doesn't matter, Babe. Right, Paul said it
was ahead of its time a little bit. I mean
in terms of the cringe comedy. I mean, you know,
(29:22):
Judd's now made a career out of very similar toned things.
It launched so many careers and and really pioneered a
new way of doing television. That is uh, you know,
I think a lot of shows, including the office. Oh,
a great debt of gratitude too. Um. Yeah, I remember
(29:47):
feeling that it was ahead of its time, like I said,
like I read it and didn't understand it. You know,
I didn't understand tonally what it was supposed to be.
It wasn't until I actually saw it that I was like,
Oh shit, this is awesome and I think it's really
a testament to how the people in charge treated us
(30:11):
with so much respect. And we were kids and maybe
at moments didn't deserve it, but they really treated us
like experts in our field and real collaborators in making
this thing, and it changes everything when you get to
(30:36):
work with people who respect you. Yeah, I've been on
both sides of that like line, where I've worked for
people who just definitely don't respect me and I'm there
to like service what they want to be done or
how they want it said. And I have no joke
heard actors like that I was working with being referenced
(30:59):
as talking props. Yeah, that's a Bummer, you know, that
really takes the fun out of it. But like for
me to go from doing really fun creative theater programs
and then getting to be a part of a show,
a network television show, were these adults in charge. And,
(31:21):
by the way, that is the funniest thing to me,
which is that I thought that Judd and Leslie were
literally fifty years old. Leslie is like three years older
than me. Were like essentially the same age, but she
(31:41):
was like they were like married, they had a baby,
they were like old people and and then like cut
to five years later, we're like hanging out with each
other in Hawaii and I'm like wait, what's happening? We're
they say, Oh my God, you were like my dad
and mom and no, but isn't that so weird? Like
(32:02):
when you're a kid, when you're a teenager, people who
are twenty five seem like grown up, and then when
you were eight you're like hanging out with fifty year
olds and you're like, we're all the same age, just fine, anyway.
I just it was just but the fact that they
trusted us and took us seriously and took our ideas
seriously and never made us feel less than for being
(32:28):
actors or teenagers an incredible gift and a thing that
honestly shaped the way that we all have turned out. Like,
I think for most of us that was our first
experience professionally, like even in the case of like Linda
Jason and Franco, who had worked a little bit before that,
(32:52):
this was like their biggest thing that they had done,
you know what I mean? And I think just having
that environment really shifted the way that we approached the
rest of our careers and what we wanted for ourselves
and like what we were how we were going to
do it. That's awesome. That's so great to hear and
(33:12):
makes so much sense that having that nurturing and creative
environment early on doesn't make you in a way Um
over it. Yeah, I mean, well, I think I look,
like I said, that year was where were you were?
You already in L A in shortly after. I did
(33:33):
theater for a long time, so I was I didn't
get here until two thous so, like there were a
lot of people my age that we all started out
at the same time, and I do think that what
happens after, you know, is a reflection of how you
were treated when you first enter this business. It's hard
(33:55):
for me when especially young actors deserves so much better
than the treatment that they receive. Even if you don't
end up, like pursuing for the rest of your life
this thing, I think it really shapes you fundamentally and
I think there's just been, there just has been so
much mistreatment of kids and teen and young adult performers,
(34:21):
you know, but I got lucky, boy, did I get lucky.
You did and you know, we got to talk about
immediately transitioning off of this show. You have a great
experience and and very shortly you get on like the
biggest show of all time for kids, Dawson's Creek. How
was that experience? It was different. It's different. It was
(34:46):
different and I you know, like again directly after freaks
and GEEKS was tough. I didn't work a ton and
I was out there like puffing it, you know, and
that pilot sea, the next pilot season, was one of
those years. I tested and didn't get, I think, like
(35:09):
Nine Network TV shows and I was like, well, I
guess this ship is over, like and then, and you know,
and then you're looking. I'm looking at my friends from
freaks and GEEKS and it's like Franco is, James Dean, seagulls,
like the lead of some fucking thing. Linda's Da Da,
Dada Da, like it just was like I felt like
(35:30):
a failure. I felt like such a failure. And John Kasten,
Jake Kasden's younger brother, who was a writer on freaks
and Geeks, he went to Dawson's creek and it was
that transitional time for a teen show where they're going
to college, and so he was like I have the
best idea. I think you need to be on Dawson's Creek,
(35:53):
and I was like that's a little bit like when
your mom calls you and tells you like I think
you should be on seven rents, and I'm like, Oh,
you do. Yeah, that's a great idea, mom. Maybe I
should be on severance. Okay, you know what I mean.
Like it's like your parents like, or like your friends
from back home like pick like the biggest show ever
(36:15):
and they're like it's so, why aren't you on hacks?
I'm like, I don't I actually don't know. I don't
know why I'm not on hacks. I'm sorry to tell you,
just not not on hacks. Um. So I was like okay,
John Whatever. And sure enough, like a month later or something,
I got a call and they're like they want you
(36:35):
to be Katie Holmes, whom May I was like, Kasden,
you've really fucking done it, and I went and I
went to the WB, the former W B, and I
tested for it and then I went to Wilmington's, North Carolina.
I Love Wilmington's, by the way, I shot something there.
Did like it? No, but but I was at a
(36:59):
different point. I it now, I would probably love it.
Are you kidding? It was at a different point in
my life. I just started dating this guy that I
was like really into in L A. I was twenty one.
I didn't want to leave. No, I wanted to be
with my friends. I was like this sucks, like I
didn't know anyone in Wilmington's the cast. Like I got
(37:20):
to the show and like they all seemed so over it.
Oh did they? Yeah, I was gonna ask. Did you
watch the show? No, that's the other thing. I had
never seen it and it probably was difficult to stream
it at that point in time. You know it was.
You couldn't. I think somebody sent me literal VHS tapes
(37:43):
to watch. Did you watch them or no, I didn't.
I didn't. And you know what is crazy, Brian, I
haven't even watched the ones I'm in. I didn't watch
any of it. Really. Here's the thing. Michelle and I
became very, very good friends on that show. That's where
we fell in love with each other. But the cast
was like on that show they were definitely they had
been through the whole roller coaster ride. Of being on
(38:07):
the cover of rolling stone and, you know, getting huge, paid,
paid days for giant movies and then coming back to
their twenty three episode seasons and being like exhausted. They
were exhausted, I think, and I come in like all
full of like so fucking happy a bit here let
(38:30):
and everybody was like, all right, we're gonna need you
to slow it down, a little bit, you know, and
then I was like these guys suck, but they didn't.
They were just I get it now, you know, I
don't know. I have that thing like I wish I
had spent less time, sad I wasn't with my boyfriend,
you know, like I wish I had enjoyed the experience
more a little bit. But whatever. stylistically, do you consider
(39:12):
yourself a comedian? Um, I don't know, I don't I
don't know. I don't know if I consider myself anything
at this point. Brand okay, all right, I feel like
I get the reason I asked is I feel like
I get people refer to me as that sometimes. I
don't know. You're a man. Is that right at least? So, yeah,
(39:35):
I think so. I don't know. I think there is
something about that that men get referred funny men. I
mean with all humility. I say funny men, get referred
to as a comedian. Is that a compliment? I think so,
is it? It makes it like a job, like it's
like you're like, you're good, you know, it's like your profession.
(39:57):
You're good at it, your comedian interest thing. Okay, all right,
you just taught me something. I don't know. Kind of
take offense really well, like I'm like, well, but I'm
an actor and I can be funny, but I can
also be not. So you're going to win an Oscar. Remember?
We told you that? No, I know, I'm waiting. I'm
waiting for the call. Listen, we're gonna do it's I'M
(40:19):
gonna slow burn you. I think we go. I think
how it happens is it's an independent spirit award into
an Oscar nom I like it. I'M NOT gonna I'm
not gonna argue. It's you. It's your trajectory Um. After
Dawson's Creek, you do a bunch of movies, mostly comedies,
(40:42):
which was where that beautiful transition that went nowhere. White chicks. Yeah,
very funny, maid of honor. He's just not that into
you and many many more, uh, film versus television. I
FOR FOR TV. Yeah, me too. Actually. Yeah, I prefer
(41:03):
TV because I mean from a from an acting standpoint,
in character development, like the payoffs are better and you're
able to have bigger ARCS. I mean your chilly moment
doesn't land in the movie version. You know, like if
you're living with characters for an extended period of time,
(41:27):
I mean hours and hour. Even if a show is
only one season, it's still hours and hours and hours
that you're spending with these people, you're able to just
pull out different sides of the humanity and so I
find I don't feel stuck playing types because I really
feel like I get to dig into the people. And
(41:49):
then in films you are sort of relegated to like
what it is, you know. Yeah, you're like the funny
best friend who like says three funny things in every
scene and it's like then gives her the idea to
do the thing and that's it. You know, like it's
just it's not, as an actor, for me, not as fulfilling.
(42:12):
I do love TV. Yeah, it's interesting and I got
kind of like bombed when the movie stars realized that
TV was where I was at I got a little
bit like it was about the same time when I
was when I decided and like publicly declared that I
quit acting, which was, of course, bullshit, but I just
(42:35):
was like, I mean, I can't fucking I'm now I'm
up against reese witherspoon, ate Hudson. It was like, honestly,
it was like there were a couple shows in like pilots,
where I was like super interested in the pilot. This
was right around when Cougar town was ending, and they're like, well,
they're going to offer it to Kate Hudson and and
(42:55):
I was like, okay, well, that's now we're out. I'm
sucking out. I can't do this game because I you know,
I can't compete on that level. Yeah, but listen, good
news is there's lots of TV to go around. There's
a lot of TV to go around. Uh, Cougar town
critics choice television award winner. I won an award. I
(43:20):
know you did. I'm just I know, but I'm still
shocked by it. How was your experience on Cougar town?
Do you have a good time? You loved it. I
loved it. I loved it. I loved it. It was
the perfect job at the perfect moment in my life.
I had had my first kid. I really wanted to
(43:43):
do something where I was going to be funny but
where I wasn't carrying anything, because I had an infant
right and I was a new mom and like twenty
nine and felt literally insane. But I needed money and
I wanted to work, and that was the thing too.
(44:03):
Like I think there was a part of me that
fought into that weird narrative that I think people have
kind of stopped with, which was, like I had heard
a lot from people, like once I became a mother,
like it all just fell away. I didn't care about it.
Went on my first audition one week after giving birth.
I was like immediately wanted what I wanted before. I
(44:28):
was like, where are my jobs? That's so funny. I
have never, I have never told this story, but you
just brought it up and it's the perfect transition. I
now I didn't give birth, and let me say I
understand it's not the same. Sleeping on a cot at
Cedar Sign I, however, is no joke for a large man. Okay,
(44:50):
let's just be very clear about that. I am not
comparing the two experiences. I'm simply saying that is laying
on a cot sleep, attempting to sleep on a cot,
and I left the hospital and I think I had
an animated show recording at nine in the morning that
(45:14):
next day. So, yes, I get what you're saying. Doesn't
it doesn't stop, it doesn't stop. Oh, Mark, my kid's Dad, mark,
left me at the hospital to go have a meeting
with Vince Vaughan about some movie that he and abby
were writing for him. Like had no choice. was like
(45:36):
you guys, good, you got it, I'M gonna I'll be
back in like an hour and a half. Okay, sure, sure, no, no, no,
do you think? Do you thing? Dude? Um. But so
cougartown came around just in a perfect moment and it
was the perfect show for me and I can't yeah,
and I can't say enough nice things about Courtney Cox
(45:57):
and also Bill Lawrence and Krista mill and Josh Hopkins
and Um Ian Gomez and Dan Bird, I mean like
Brian Van Holt, like everyone was incredible and we really
had such an amazing time, but especially Courtney Cox is
just the greatest. Exactly what you want as the star
(46:20):
of a show, because you know we've all experienced other things,
and she doesn't have to be as magnanimous and generous
and lovely and hard working and nonstop as she is.
She could just go live on her friends money. You know,
I mean truly. You know, I thought you were going
(46:42):
to say island or something more subtle. You were like, no,
live on her friends money. No, the friends money, but
I'm just you know, but she could be any version
of anything and but she's literally the great she was
the greatest boss, the best sort of mentor in terms
of what that kind of leadership should look like, and
(47:06):
I learned a lot just by like watching her and
how she treated everyone around her with such respect all
the time. That's awesome. That's that's so great to hear. Actually,
I don't know her. I've met her, but I don't
know her at all. So that's she also, it doesn't
she doesn't pull any punches, like if it's you know,
if there's an issue, like she is like, we need
(47:26):
to discuss this and figure out how to solve it,
like she's very much she's a boss. She's a boss,
she's a great boss. She's a great boss. That's awesome.
I mean, we could talk forever about all of your projects.
I do want to get too busy tonight. What was
your idea behind that? Wanting to adjust your career path
(47:49):
a bit? and well, it's it was a huge change
for you. What what was the impetus for that? Well,
a bit it was burnout with the industry, part of
the industry, and you know, I had done this pilot
for Tina fey and it was so great. It was
like me and Casey Wilson and Bradley Whitford Played Our
(48:10):
dad and Luke Deltredici was the writer and was going
to show run it, and Tina and Robert Carlack we're
producing it, and the show was so funny and I
was like this is it, like I this is it,
like I'm so happy that I got the thing finally,
like this is my thing, like I'm so grateful for this.
And then it didn't get picked up in the most
(48:32):
like unceremonious, weird fizzle of like they never it wasn't
like one of those things where they were like it's
not getting picked up, it's just they just kept holding
onto it's so weird and heartbreaking, you know, and I
was so heartbroken and I have been so heartbroken Brian
(48:57):
for so many years over so many different projects, and
I just was like why am I doing this to myself?
This is like torture. And around that time, or a
little bit earlier, I had started doing instagram stories and
that had become this whole thing, like people were like
(49:17):
all of a sudden, taking all this interest in me
and there were articles. The New Yorker wanted to write
an article about me and you know, there was all
of this attention on that. And Eric Gurian, who produced
this with Tina fe, called me and asked if I
wanted to have lunch when they were like the Emmy's weekend.
After that, pilot didn't get picked up. So a couple
(49:39):
of months later and he was like we want to
do something with you, like what do you want to do?
What kind of show do you want to do? Like
we want to figure something out, and I was like, Eric,
I'm not doing it. I can't be an actor anymore.
It's too much heartbreak. And he's like, well, you're obviously
entertaining and you're super watchable. How many People Watch your
stories every day? And I was like at the time,
I mean this is fucking crazy. At the time it
(50:02):
was like two and fifty thousand people a day. We're
watching my fucking stories, which is nuts. Now it's like,
I want to say it's like sixty five or something
like that. You know so, but like no one was
doing them and I just whatever. I got in on it.
You pioneered it, pioneered it. I pioneered the way that
everybody does it. I know it's so exciting that I
(50:22):
did that. Um, thank you, thank you, and I'm sorry,
but I was like, I don't know, but I'll let
you know. Like I don't know what I'm doing, I
don't know what the funk is that going to happen,
but I'll let you know. And then I went to
my manager at the time's birthday party. That was at
the MERV Griffin estate in Palm Springs, and I got
(50:45):
stoned and was like sitting out looking up at the stars,
like and I turned to mark and I was like
I have to have a late night talk show. That's
what it is. I have to have a late night
talk show, and he was like uh, okay, and I'm
like no, it's like the perfect confluence of things. I
(51:05):
love talking. I love having conversations with people about things.
I have so many friends. There aren't enough women that
have these shows. Like this is just stupid and it's
you know. So from that perspective, from a feminist perspective,
I was like, let's even the playing field. Since Chelsea left,
like no one has a nightly show. So I called
(51:28):
Gurian and I told him that's what I wanted to
do and he's like, well, I don't I don't know
if Tina and I are going to be I don't
know if we're the fit for that. We've never done that.
I don't know if that's what we want to do
right now. And I was like, okay, we'll just bring
it up to her. Let her know. He's like okay.
Then I went and took a meeting at my agents
at the time and they brought in like the brows
that do the talk show part of the agency. I
(51:49):
don't even know what that's called, hosting and hosting probably,
and they were very, I don't know, non committal, I
would say, like Christian. They were disinterested. They were like like,
they were like, I mean, we could try to set
you up with like maybe like a season showrunner that
does this, and then we could like come up with
(52:11):
a concept and then we could go pitch it. I
don't I don't know when. I was like you guys
really are not listening to me. I'm going to do
a late night talk show because the ghost of Merv
Griffin told me when I was stoned that that's what
I'm doing. And they were like okay, and no joke.
Four days later the phone rang and it was Eric
(52:34):
Gurrey and and he's like, well, I've got some news
and I was like what and he's like, I think
Tina and Dave miner just sold your late night talk
show to e over the phone. Amazing and literally, like
that's how it fucking happened like that. Tina had some
because her general, you know, her overall deal, is at universal,
(52:55):
and she had some call with e and they said, well,
we really want to get back into like a late
night talk show space and Tina was like, well, have
I got the show for you? and that was it, ma'am.
Within I would say like a month and a half,
like the deal was done and then within four months
we started like developing it and then we were greenlit
(53:19):
in August, I think, and then it premiered in October,
like almost exactly one year after the merv Griffin thing.
Crazy good experience. Oh, I loved doing the show. Yeah,
we had the best time. It was fantastic. We had
a real casey stange, and I, who we do our
podcast together and she was my showrunner for the show and,
(53:42):
you know, we really had a vision for what we
wanted it to be and we wanted it to be
different and for different a different audience than what other
late night shows have been. I didn't want to like
parent anyone else's style and I wanted to make it
for I literally wanted to make a show for me,
(54:06):
like something I would enjoy watching, you know. And I
felt really strongly about doing it multiple nights a week
because I think that it was like a little bit
of a challenge and a trial by fire and but
I think we got the show up and going really
so much faster than we would have if we were
(54:27):
doing it like once a week, you know. Um, and
I was, I'm really proud of it. I really am
proud of it. I love like loved it and I
loved our guests and everybody who came on the show
would leave and say something incredible like, honestly, this is
the best experience I've had on a talk show ever.
You know, like it was just Super Fun and we
(54:48):
were really sad. I was really, again, really sad, really
heartbroken when it was over, because I thought that by
taking control of it and being creatively in control and
an executive producer and like I was very involved with
every aspect of it, for some reason I thought I
(55:08):
would be better prepared for like, yeah, I was not. No. Yeah, well,
I'm so happy for you that you had the experience. Yeah,
and maybe again. Is that done? I mean, sure, I didn't.
(55:29):
I'm at this point now where I'm like, I'll do it,
I don't know, whatever what may, I'll do anything. Who knows? Again,
like you said, am I a comedian? Like, I don't
know what I am, Dude. I'm just like, I'm here,
I'm here. You're well, you're I don't know if you're
a comedian or not. Like I said, I don't even
I struggle with like those types of labels. But do
(55:52):
you do stand up? No, that's the thing to meet
comedian means stand up. I agree. Yeah, now you're changing story. Okay, fine,
I am changing my story. I know you are. That's
what I just I just called you out on it, busy,
God bless it. I uh so enjoy talking to you.
(56:16):
You really make me laugh. So, comedian or not, that's
that's that's really all I'm looking for. Good luck figuring
out what you want to do next. I know it
will be incredible and I appreciate so much you're coming
to talk to me. I'm so happy too. I love
talking to you, I love seeing you. Thank you. Thanks,
Brian Busy. That was incredible. Yeah, I'm still laughing. Thank
(56:52):
you for stopping by. To those of you out there listening,
it has been a pleasure hanging with you this beautiful Tuesday,
or or whatever day it is that you're listening. I'M
gonna be back next week, on Tuesday, same time, same place,
with another amazing guest, a guest who, by the way,
stars in one of my recent favorite television shows. Can
(57:17):
you guess what it is? I'll give you a hint.
He is a bad, bad man. We'll see you next week.
Off The beat is hosted an executive produced by me,
Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are
(57:41):
Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris and Emily Carr our
talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is
Sammy Katz. Our theme song bubble and squeak, performed by
my great friend Creed Bratton Mumm
And then she called me back and she was like,
you know, Judd is really insistent that they want to
make this character a series regular if the show gets
picked up. I think you should just do it. I
think it's brilliant. Had you read the script? Yeah, I
did not understand it at all. I'M NOT gonna lie.
I'M NOT gonna lie. Totally, Brian, totally. I was like,
don't get it, I don't get what the tone of
(00:21):
this is. I was so confused by it. Hi, my
name is busy Phillips and I'm a human person in
this world. I don't know what I am. Yeah. Well,
(00:48):
hello there everybody, and welcome friends to another episode of
off the beat. It's me, as always, your host, Brian Baumgartner, and,
as you just heard in that sneak peek, I have
my conversation today with a woman who makes me laugh,
busy Phillips, a woman who has been, well, busy get it,
(01:13):
winning hearts on screen since well, since she first appeared
as Kim on cult favorite freaks and Geeks, a show
whose legacy it only lasted one season, but some could
say it is the precursor, it is the the grand
parent to the office. Since then, she's been on everything,
(01:35):
Dawson's Creek, Cougar town, white chicks, and last year she
became an esteemed member of the incredible girls five. Ever,
she also had a late night television show, busy tonight,
that we talked about, and her podcast I was just on.
Busy Phillips is doing her best. She is one of
(01:58):
my favorites. We're going to deep dive into the brain
today of busy Phillips. Bubble and squeak. I love bubble
and SQUIG, bubble and squeaker cookie every moon looked over
(02:19):
from the nut people. What's up, busy? Hi Brian, how
are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm good.
It was my kid's first day of school today. Oh today,
(02:40):
I know, New York is weird. Wow, okay, a random Wednesday. Well,
yesterday it was like an open house kind of day
for the kids, so maybe it was sort of technically yesterday,
but not really, like they just went and saw their
classrooms and then today was like the real start. Well,
(03:01):
that's nice, I guess. Did you get emotional? No, I have.
My kids are old. Okay, what are they doing? Tours
of the room. Then my older one doesn't do like
my older one is in middle school but my little
one is in fourth grade and they still do it
in fourth grade so that they can like see their classroom,
know where they're going on the first day. Like New
(03:23):
York is just so different than Los Angeles. It's crazy
and obviously, obviously, but like I didn't realize that both
kids like get themselves, like they get themselves to school. Oh,
they walk or they well, my older kids walks and
then the little one takes a bus. Wow, I know,
(03:43):
big kids, big kids, big kids. I know, I know,
it's nuts. It's nuts. Um, well, we call this in
the business tip for TAT. I came on your podcast,
which was a delight. Thank you for doing that. No,
I heard I is the best, the best. That's what
people are saying. Yeah, the best guest ever on busy
(04:06):
Phillips is doing her best. Uh, and now I am
so excited to talk to you, but I want to
start back earlier than that. When did you when did
you start becoming involved in the arts or thinking you
might want to perform or be an actor? Well, I mean,
I think, like many of us, it was a thing
(04:31):
that I always had since I was a very, very
small person. You know, I've been a parent now for
a long time, but you know, it really is a
parent a parent, a parent as a parent. It's a
parent to a parent, a parent as a parent. Um that. Yeah,
some kids just gravitate towards being the center of attention,
(04:51):
wanting to perform, wanting to dress up, wanting to do
shows and things, and I was very much that kid.
I also had, uh, pretty intense lisp when I was little,
like little, little kid, and by the time I was
(05:11):
in second and third grade it was still hanging on
and that's when like speech therapists get involved and I
think my mom felt like it was a really good
opportunity to sort of combine a thing that she saw
that I had an interest in with, you know, making
(05:34):
sure that I could say my s is and my
th h s and my rs correctly. So, you know.
So so I got sort of you know, she put
me in some you know, little kid theater programs and
extracurricular stuff. I was never a kid that was very
sporty about you well, as I've gotten older I've become
(05:56):
way more athletic, but I was like not I didn't
want to move. I was like very happy to be
in a cold theater. I also grew up in Arizona.
Brand you don't want to play softball in a hunter
antent decree heat, and they do. I know, the golf
(06:17):
they're like yeah, let's go out, we'll tee, we'll tee
it off at six thirty and it's already a hundred
and two. No, I mean I like I played softball
for two years in elementary school and it was so
hot and I like all the pictures of me are
just like in the outfield laying down like trying to
not pass out from heat exhaustion. So I was very
(06:40):
happy to be in a cold, air conditioned black box
theater and I was really lucky because we found, through
my best friend emily bb, this very cool children's theater,
small children's theater school or whatever in in Scottsdale called
actors lab of Arizona, and they had their like kid
(07:01):
and teen program and the woman that ran it was
really cool, like she just didn't do the usual kid plays,
you know, like she had us write monologues about our
feelings and stuff. Like she really was like into it
and I just knew that I wanted to do it.
I like was very adamant from, I mean, I want
(07:22):
to say, like fourth or fifth grade, that I was
going to move to L A and be an actor
and be in movies and beyond TV shows. Fourth or
fifth grade, you were already there. Yes, yeah, yeah, that's cool.
I mean it's interesting that your mom had that insight,
that idea of like Oh, okay, so this is an
(07:44):
issue you're having. Well, let's dive into the pool, like
let's do this and and challenge you in that way,
knowing that you may have feelings about performing or whatever,
but that's very cool. Yeah, I mean my mom also
was a former. My mom wanted to be an actress
when she was young and was the star of all
(08:04):
the school plays. My older sister is four years older
than me and she also did like school plays in
theater and when she was in college was, you know,
in a bunch of shows in college. Um, so it
was like it's definitely like a thing in our in us,
in our family, you know. And just to be clear, though,
(08:27):
for your listeners who don't know me, maybe I'm not
related to anyone famous, but like sometimes a lot of
times people think that I'm part of like the famous
Phillips is from the Mamas and the Papas, like those Philips,
that Phillips Family. I'm not. My Mom's a realtor. She
ended up not being an actor. My Dad's an engineer,
(08:50):
but you know what I mean, like we were just
people who like to perform. Yeah, so she was. She
was always very encouraging and I think she felt like
her parents kind of put the Kai Bash on her
dreams of becoming an actor, and so she did not
want to do that to me or my sister and
(09:10):
she was always super encouraging and supportive, and both my parents.
But like really my mother was like, you know, my
friend Jenny jokes that my mom was like the ultimate
stage mom, and I would say, like that is true
in some respects, but honestly, like when my sister decided
to stop doing it, it wasn't a thing, like it
(09:32):
was just like okay, that you're doing something else now.
She really just wanted to support us in whatever was
making us happy. You know what I mean? Yeah, you know,
I've never talked about it or even thought about this before,
but there's going to be a call to my mom later.
I think my mom might be the same as your mom.
(09:54):
I mean she was a singer, and I think it
may have been her parents that discouraged her as well,
because I've never talked about this. My grandparents, who were
still alive at the time that I moved to Los Angeles,
told my mom that I shouldn't move to Los Angeles
because everyone does drugs out there. Sure. Well. Well, to
(10:16):
be fair, Brian, how how many parties have we been
at where we're just doing the drugs, you and me,
just in the corner? Um I. How did you get
the name busy? You have different answers. I want the
real answer here. The real answer is that it was
it was just like a very natural nickname from Elizabeth
because I was a very busy little baby and my
(10:41):
sister is like four years older than me. I have
a babysitter. I had a babysitter in Chicago, where I
was born and lived the first five years of my life,
who was always calling me busy bath. So then it
just became and it was like immediate. It was by
the time I was a year old old. In my
baby books, everywhere it just calls me busy. At first
(11:03):
it's like, well, busy Beth is learning how to crawl,
like busy Beth and then by the time or busy, busy, bath,
not busy, Lizzy, busy, Liz, busy Beth, and then by
the time I'm a year old, it's just busy, and
then it was busy ever since. So yeah, there you go.
You heard it here. That's the real story, that's the truth.
So you were doing theater very, very early on. What
(11:26):
what led you to L M U, Loyola Mary Mount,
Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles, California? Well, a couple
of things. Number One, you know, all teenagers think they
know everything, which is the best and worst part of
being and having a teenager. Let me tell you, Um,
(11:46):
but I knew, but what I knew about being a
professional actor was that if you wanted to do TV
and film, you went to L A, and if you
wanted to do theater or musical theater, you went to
New York. L A was also very close to where
I grew up and went to hi Scottsdale. Yeah, so
(12:06):
I auditioned and got into CAL arts to their Conservatory
Theater Program. But I had a few friends from high
school who had graduated a couple of years earlier than
me who were in the Undergrad Film Department at Loyal
and Marymount University and at the time I graduated from
(12:26):
my school in at the time, elm you was like
quite small. It's not. Now it's like this huge school.
It's so crazy to me and my mom because my
family is like, historically speaking, Catholic. My mother like loves
the JESUITS FOR THE EDUCATION. So I was I was
(12:48):
auditioning for Cal Arts, which is where I thought I
was going to go. I had applied to a s
U as like a backup, and my mom was like
you really should just look at l m you. You
already have friends there. It's in L A. It's not
Kell Erts is like in Valencia. You're not gonna this
isn't what you want. My Mom's not wrong, by the way.
So I went from my audition. I flew out by myself.
(13:10):
My friend Eric, he picked me up, he drove me
to my audition and then we went back to L
M U and I turned in my application there and
like looked around the campus and spent the day there
and I met Gloria Calderon Kellett that day. I met
just a bunch of people and I I don't know
if I met Linda Cardellini that day. But I but
(13:31):
I met her as soon as I got there because
she was already a legend at that school. She was
already a legend. Yeah, for sure. Well, she was like
working like professionally, working before freaks, before even freaks and Geeks.
And so Linda's four years older than me, Um, but
she had taken a gap year to work, but she
(13:53):
was still like living with her college roommates off, like
right off campus, and everybody was in ALD in the
theater department. And so before I even met Linda, I
knew who Linda was because it was like, oh, well,
Linda Cardalini's working. She was on boy meets world. So
she was she was like sort of a legend already
by the time I got there. And then really she's
(14:15):
why I you know, she's why I did freaks and Geeks,
which is like a whole other crazy I'll tell you
that in two seconds. So, but but I just spent
the day there at l m U and then flew
back and I was like I really liked it. I
really liked it, and part of the deal with calerts
was that you sign up to be in this conservatory
acting program and you're not supposed to audition or work
(14:36):
for the four years that you're in that program, and
I just felt like I'd been waiting since fourth grade
to be an actor. I was like I can't do that,
like I need to be able to do it if
I'm gonna do it. And I'm so grateful that I
like thought that way and and I'm you know, and
my mom, I think, was happy that I was getting
(14:57):
that Jesuit Education. I don't for two years anyway. But yeah,
so then I got you know, so then I was
I was at l m U, and then I was
very focused on getting representation, figuring out how to do that.
So you were going to school, but you were also
in the business to like, yeah, you were trying to
find an agent and you were trying to work even
(15:18):
as you started school. Yeah, there were a few of
us in the theater department that were kind of like
savvy in that way, you know. And I felt like
it was already too late. I felt like I had
already like at eighteen and I was like I've already
missed the book, you know what I mean, like I'm
already it's already too I've already missed it. But you
(15:39):
know Colin Hanks? Yeah, I was gonna ask. Were you
friends with him as well or you guys was my boyfriend,
he was your boyfriend. Yeah, you didn't know that for years. Yeah,
we met my first semester, freshman. I don't read US weekly,
don't listen, but Brian, it also like so predates like
celebrity gossip. Yeah, it does kind of, because also we
(15:59):
weren't famous. We were just like two random lmu students
who like got on teen shows at the same time.
No one cared. There's nothing and we're really good friends
now as adults, which is the greatest twist of life
and faith. So that's fantastic. But yeah, we met freshman year,
(16:20):
like my first semester, and started going out. We were
really like we did noises off together. He was the director,
I was Vicky and I had done some like like
had tried to get an agent in Arizona, which was
you know, anytime you're like in one of those smaller
(16:40):
towns and markets, it's not that there's not stuff to
be done or work to be done, it's just it's
a little it's not comparable to what you do. Well, right,
any most of the most of the interesting stuff. They
end up casting out of L A or New York anyway.
So you have an agent that you can't get you
access to anything. That's that's I mean typically, typically, not always.
(17:04):
I had done this like industrial type job for Mattel
toy company, playing a live Barbie doll. Oh my God,
I want the footage. No, because it was like it's
the toy fair and you weren't allowed to film anything,
and also before cameras and phones and camera phones. But
(17:26):
I actually wasn't Barbie. I was they made a doll
from the TV show and movie clueless. They made a
share horrowitz doll. Yes, and so then they dressed me
up like that and then they would bring in the
toy buyers and I would do a whole fifteen pages
of like sales projections and stuff, but in character as
(17:49):
share horro wins, and I killed I was like I
was I really killed it. And I went to New
York twice to do the toy fair for Mattel and Um,
there were tons of Broadway actors because it was like
nine to four. The job was like nine to four
(18:10):
and you got paid. I mean I worked at California
Pizza Kitchen and those two weeks of being a Barbie
for Mattel, I think I made four thousand dollars. Like
as an seventeen year old, I was like that's nothing
to sneeze at. It was a lot of money. But
(18:30):
because of that I had become sort of friends with
this actress named Lisa Guerrero and then ended up being
like a sports like a football commentator. Yeah, okay, I
feel like you know who she is. I know who
that is. Yes, I was inside edition now or something. Okay,
(18:50):
I don't know. Again, I told you I don't read
US weekly, alright, and I literally don't think any of
these things would be in US weekly. I think that.
I don't think there is a publication that would come
to this. This is just for your podcast. Anyway, she
was very sweet and she took me out to lunch
and she was like, well, you'll need representation. She was
(19:12):
the one that told me what the steps were and
then she very sweetly introduced me to her manager at
the time, and this woman was like sure, well, let's see,
let's try, and from there, you know, I auditioned for
an agency and thankfully I had that Calart's audition in
(19:35):
my back pocket. Just went in and did my calarts
audition anyway and they've ended up signing me. And it's
like at every point when I was you know, I
was eighteen and then nineteen when I got freaks and Geeks,
but at every point it was very much like I
could tell the people around me were like well, let's see,
(19:55):
let's okay, sure, let's just see, and the whole time
I was like you'll see, oh, you're gonna see. How
(20:25):
did you meet the folks on Freaks and Geeks? Was
that through your agency? Did they do their job? Oh
my God. Well, what I'm failing to bring up to
you is that the pilot season of was like the
year after Dawson's Creek, was the hugest hit of all time,
and literally every network had seven teen shows that they
(20:52):
were trying to make. So the timing for someone my
age who could play sixteen, who didn't have been better.
I had ninety, something like nine five auditions and callbacks
in the span of three months. Unbelie unbelievable. And also, Brian,
(21:12):
this is before email and I had to drive from
L M U on the four or five to sunset
plaza to pick up my scripts and sides from my
agent's office. They would leave them downstairs in a giant
box for all of their actors and you would go
and you would flip through and find your name and
find your package. It was like I was nonstop living
(21:34):
in my car. I lived in my car. And so
I had auditioned for Alison Jones and had gotten pretty
far but hadn't tested, but had gotten like done a
good job for Roswell, which was the show that Colin
ended up getting, and she brought me in for freaks
and Geeks and I read right for the producers for that.
(21:55):
And so I went in and it was like Jake,
Paul Judd and Alison obviously, and I read the Lindsay
Audition sides. Kim Kelly wasn't a character. Yeah, then, right
before I was about to leave, Paul was like Hey, busy, uh,
you know, we have this other part. Would you mind
taking a look at this and just coming back in
(22:17):
and reading it for us? Uh, it might be interesting.
You know when they do that to you, and on audition,
I'm sure, and you're like a little bummed because you
read for the lead and they're like here's this other
part that we don't even know what it is, but
why don't you look at that? And they're like another
thing I'm not getting. And all I could think of,
(22:39):
because the audition was in the Palisades, was that I
was going to have to drive back on the four,
oh five to L M U, and I was and
it was getting like later and later, and at a
certain point I was like, Oh, fuck it, I'm ready.
I just want to go, like I need to go,
I gotta get out of here, and so it's like
essentially it was essentially a very cold read and that
(23:02):
was it. That was it. Amazing. Did wait. Well, you know, normally,
like when it's a series regular, you test at the network, right,
but they Kim Kelly was just a guest star for
the pilot. They didn't, they hadn't made it a series
regular part. And my agents were like, we don't want
you to do this because you're getting so much attention,
(23:26):
like and so much you're getting so close on things
that we want you to wait for a series regular role.
We think you could like land some really good series
regular role and you don't want to take yourself out
of the rest of pilot season because you're working on
a show, right. But then I went to Pick Up,
I think Colin at the airport and Linda was also there,
picking up her roommate actually, and she had just gotten
(23:50):
the part and she knew that they had they wanted
me for Kim Kelly, and she was like, Dude, can
you believe it? I'm I got freaks and GEEKS. I'm
gonna do it. You gotta be Kim Kelly, and I
was like, I know, I was just talking. I just
it's so exciting, like I just my agents were feeling like,
I don't know, and she's like no, no, no, do
this show. You gotta do this with me. It'll be
(24:12):
so much fun. We'll have so much fun. And I honestly,
in that moment I was like yeah, of course I'm
sucking doing it. Like why would I not do I
already know this girl who's Rad and like I want
to be best friends with anyway. Why would I not
do this? And so I called my manager, Lorraine, and
I was like I really want to do this, and
(24:33):
she's like, I'm gonna Call Judge, I'm gonna find out
what the deal is, and then she called me back
and she was like, you know, Judd is really insistent
that they want to make this character a series regular.
If the show gets picked up, I think you should
just do it. I think it's brilliant. And so, because
of like Lorraine, my manager at the time, and Linda Cardalini,
I was like, I had no idea what I was doing.
(24:54):
Who knows what anything is, you know, they're like Judd
apataw from sick in the head. I'm like, I don't
know what the funk that is like. Had you read
the script? Yeah, I did not understand it at all.
I'M NOT gonna lie. I'M NOT gonna lie. Totally, Brian, totally.
(25:14):
I was like don't get it, I don't get what
the tone of this is. I was so confused by it.
And then I remember they cut together. We had a
pretty long shoot for the pilot. I mean it's a
period piece and it's involved and those were the those
were the olden days of Hollywood where they really spent
a ton of money and like they were shooting on film,
(25:38):
you know. And after we wrapped the pilot that evening,
in the cafeteria of the school we were shooting at,
they rolled out like a little a v Cart and
they had cut together. The editors had just put together
like a tiny little mishmash of the show for all
of us to see what we've been working on, which, honestly,
(26:01):
also in retrospect, is so special because so yeah, I
mean if your show doesn't get picked up, the crew
literally never sees the show. I mean, I don't know
about you, I've done pilots that I still haven't seen, right, right,
I mean I've done shows that I've never seen, but
that's a different issue. That is a different issue, I
(26:21):
would say. But anyway, it was so special and I
remember watching this thing that they put together and they
had the come sale away song, you know, like Crescendo, Ng,
and I got full chills and I was like this
is what we've been doing. Oh my God, this is real.
Like my mind, I'M gonna start crying, but like my
(26:44):
little brain was blown like this is what I've wanted
to do since I was a baby, and there I
am and I don't even look like me and I
don't sound like me and it's real. Yeah, that was
that wow. Were you away are at that moment that
the show was special or doing something new, or did
(27:04):
your little brain not comprehend that at the at the time?
I mean that whole experience is so has had so
many different incarnations of what it was and what it
is and what it continues to be. So it's funny,
you know, like we had such an amazing time while
we were doing it and the freedom that Judd and
(27:27):
Paul and Leslie Gladder, like all of our directors, they
gave us such a gift that we were all way
too inexperienced and young to understand at the in the moment,
I think. But we all enjoyed it very much. I
mean I don't remember, aside from like my personality conflict
(27:49):
with Franco, like I don't remember ever having like a
complaint about anything having to do with it. Late nights
were Super Fun. Early Mornings were Super Fun. We would
hang out, we would go to swingers and get food
at midnight. After we wrapped like together, we would go
to birds on Franklin where segull convinced me that the
(28:15):
scientology building had a tower of terror ride inside of it,
and I believed him for like ten minutes. I really
thought it was true, and south was like come on,
it's not true and I was like, I don't know,
it looks like it has one of those rides in it,
you know, like a drum. I was like what, we
(28:36):
don't know anyway. Um, so it's really fun, you know.
And I think and when the show was over and
it became clear like that it was going to be over, over,
I wasn't ready for it to be and I wanted
it to continue. I was really, really sad and really
disheartened and and and I did feel in a moment
(29:00):
already like, but we made something so good. Why is
this hat why is this fair? I mean, and again
that's the best lesson you can learn as an actor.
It's like, actually doesn't matter, Babe. Right, Paul said it
was ahead of its time a little bit. I mean
in terms of the cringe comedy. I mean, you know,
(29:22):
Judd's now made a career out of very similar toned things.
It launched so many careers and and really pioneered a
new way of doing television. That is uh, you know,
I think a lot of shows, including the office. Oh,
a great debt of gratitude too. Um. Yeah, I remember
(29:47):
feeling that it was ahead of its time, like I said,
like I read it and didn't understand it. You know,
I didn't understand tonally what it was supposed to be.
It wasn't until I actually saw it that I was like,
Oh shit, this is awesome and I think it's really
a testament to how the people in charge treated us
(30:11):
with so much respect. And we were kids and maybe
at moments didn't deserve it, but they really treated us
like experts in our field and real collaborators in making
this thing, and it changes everything when you get to
(30:36):
work with people who respect you. Yeah, I've been on
both sides of that like line, where I've worked for
people who just definitely don't respect me and I'm there
to like service what they want to be done or
how they want it said. And I have no joke
heard actors like that I was working with being referenced
(30:59):
as talking props. Yeah, that's a Bummer, you know, that
really takes the fun out of it. But like for
me to go from doing really fun creative theater programs
and then getting to be a part of a show,
a network television show, were these adults in charge. And,
(31:21):
by the way, that is the funniest thing to me,
which is that I thought that Judd and Leslie were
literally fifty years old. Leslie is like three years older
than me. Were like essentially the same age, but she
(31:41):
was like they were like married, they had a baby,
they were like old people and and then like cut
to five years later, we're like hanging out with each
other in Hawaii and I'm like wait, what's happening? We're
they say, Oh my God, you were like my dad
and mom and no, but isn't that so weird? Like
(32:02):
when you're a kid, when you're a teenager, people who
are twenty five seem like grown up, and then when
you were eight you're like hanging out with fifty year
olds and you're like, we're all the same age, just fine, anyway.
I just it was just but the fact that they
trusted us and took us seriously and took our ideas
seriously and never made us feel less than for being
(32:28):
actors or teenagers an incredible gift and a thing that
honestly shaped the way that we all have turned out. Like,
I think for most of us that was our first
experience professionally, like even in the case of like Linda
Jason and Franco, who had worked a little bit before that,
(32:52):
this was like their biggest thing that they had done,
you know what I mean? And I think just having
that environment really shifted the way that we approached the
rest of our careers and what we wanted for ourselves
and like what we were how we were going to
do it. That's awesome. That's so great to hear and
(33:12):
makes so much sense that having that nurturing and creative
environment early on doesn't make you in a way Um
over it. Yeah, I mean, well, I think I look,
like I said, that year was where were you were?
You already in L A in shortly after. I did
(33:33):
theater for a long time, so I was I didn't
get here until two thous so, like there were a
lot of people my age that we all started out
at the same time, and I do think that what
happens after, you know, is a reflection of how you
were treated when you first enter this business. It's hard
(33:55):
for me when especially young actors deserves so much better
than the treatment that they receive. Even if you don't
end up, like pursuing for the rest of your life
this thing, I think it really shapes you fundamentally and
I think there's just been, there just has been so
much mistreatment of kids and teen and young adult performers,
(34:21):
you know, but I got lucky, boy, did I get lucky.
You did and you know, we got to talk about
immediately transitioning off of this show. You have a great
experience and and very shortly you get on like the
biggest show of all time for kids, Dawson's Creek. How
was that experience? It was different. It's different. It was
(34:46):
different and I you know, like again directly after freaks
and GEEKS was tough. I didn't work a ton and
I was out there like puffing it, you know, and
that pilot sea, the next pilot season, was one of
those years. I tested and didn't get, I think, like
(35:09):
Nine Network TV shows and I was like, well, I
guess this ship is over, like and then, and you know,
and then you're looking. I'm looking at my friends from
freaks and GEEKS and it's like Franco is, James Dean, seagulls,
like the lead of some fucking thing. Linda's Da Da,
Dada Da, like it just was like I felt like
(35:30):
a failure. I felt like such a failure. And John Kasten,
Jake Kasden's younger brother, who was a writer on freaks
and Geeks, he went to Dawson's creek and it was
that transitional time for a teen show where they're going
to college, and so he was like I have the
best idea. I think you need to be on Dawson's Creek,
(35:53):
and I was like that's a little bit like when
your mom calls you and tells you like I think
you should be on seven rents, and I'm like, Oh,
you do. Yeah, that's a great idea, mom. Maybe I
should be on severance. Okay, you know what I mean.
Like it's like your parents like, or like your friends
from back home like pick like the biggest show ever
(36:15):
and they're like it's so, why aren't you on hacks?
I'm like, I don't I actually don't know. I don't
know why I'm not on hacks. I'm sorry to tell you,
just not not on hacks. Um. So I was like okay,
John Whatever. And sure enough, like a month later or something,
I got a call and they're like they want you
(36:35):
to be Katie Holmes, whom May I was like, Kasden,
you've really fucking done it, and I went and I
went to the WB, the former W B, and I
tested for it and then I went to Wilmington's, North Carolina.
I Love Wilmington's, by the way, I shot something there.
Did like it? No, but but I was at a
(36:59):
different point. I it now, I would probably love it.
Are you kidding? It was at a different point in
my life. I just started dating this guy that I
was like really into in L A. I was twenty one.
I didn't want to leave. No, I wanted to be
with my friends. I was like this sucks, like I
didn't know anyone in Wilmington's the cast. Like I got
(37:20):
to the show and like they all seemed so over it.
Oh did they? Yeah, I was gonna ask. Did you
watch the show? No, that's the other thing. I had
never seen it and it probably was difficult to stream
it at that point in time. You know it was.
You couldn't. I think somebody sent me literal VHS tapes
(37:43):
to watch. Did you watch them or no, I didn't.
I didn't. And you know what is crazy, Brian, I
haven't even watched the ones I'm in. I didn't watch
any of it. Really. Here's the thing. Michelle and I
became very, very good friends on that show. That's where
we fell in love with each other. But the cast
was like on that show they were definitely they had
been through the whole roller coaster ride. Of being on
(38:07):
the cover of rolling stone and, you know, getting huge, paid,
paid days for giant movies and then coming back to
their twenty three episode seasons and being like exhausted. They
were exhausted, I think, and I come in like all
full of like so fucking happy a bit here let
(38:30):
and everybody was like, all right, we're gonna need you
to slow it down, a little bit, you know, and
then I was like these guys suck, but they didn't.
They were just I get it now, you know, I
don't know. I have that thing like I wish I
had spent less time, sad I wasn't with my boyfriend,
you know, like I wish I had enjoyed the experience
more a little bit. But whatever. stylistically, do you consider
(39:12):
yourself a comedian? Um, I don't know, I don't I
don't know. I don't know if I consider myself anything
at this point. Brand okay, all right, I feel like
I get the reason I asked is I feel like
I get people refer to me as that sometimes. I
don't know. You're a man. Is that right at least? So, yeah,
(39:35):
I think so. I don't know. I think there is
something about that that men get referred funny men. I
mean with all humility. I say funny men, get referred
to as a comedian. Is that a compliment? I think so,
is it? It makes it like a job, like it's
like you're like, you're good, you know, it's like your profession.
(39:57):
You're good at it, your comedian interest thing. Okay, all right,
you just taught me something. I don't know. Kind of
take offense really well, like I'm like, well, but I'm
an actor and I can be funny, but I can
also be not. So you're going to win an Oscar. Remember?
We told you that? No, I know, I'm waiting. I'm
waiting for the call. Listen, we're gonna do it's I'M
(40:19):
gonna slow burn you. I think we go. I think
how it happens is it's an independent spirit award into
an Oscar nom I like it. I'M NOT gonna I'm
not gonna argue. It's you. It's your trajectory Um. After
Dawson's Creek, you do a bunch of movies, mostly comedies,
(40:42):
which was where that beautiful transition that went nowhere. White chicks. Yeah,
very funny, maid of honor. He's just not that into
you and many many more, uh, film versus television. I
FOR FOR TV. Yeah, me too. Actually. Yeah, I prefer
(41:03):
TV because I mean from a from an acting standpoint,
in character development, like the payoffs are better and you're
able to have bigger ARCS. I mean your chilly moment
doesn't land in the movie version. You know, like if
you're living with characters for an extended period of time,
(41:27):
I mean hours and hour. Even if a show is
only one season, it's still hours and hours and hours
that you're spending with these people, you're able to just
pull out different sides of the humanity and so I
find I don't feel stuck playing types because I really
feel like I get to dig into the people. And
(41:49):
then in films you are sort of relegated to like
what it is, you know. Yeah, you're like the funny
best friend who like says three funny things in every
scene and it's like then gives her the idea to
do the thing and that's it. You know, like it's
just it's not, as an actor, for me, not as fulfilling.
(42:12):
I do love TV. Yeah, it's interesting and I got
kind of like bombed when the movie stars realized that
TV was where I was at I got a little
bit like it was about the same time when I
was when I decided and like publicly declared that I
quit acting, which was, of course, bullshit, but I just
(42:35):
was like, I mean, I can't fucking I'm now I'm
up against reese witherspoon, ate Hudson. It was like, honestly,
it was like there were a couple shows in like pilots,
where I was like super interested in the pilot. This
was right around when Cougar town was ending, and they're like, well,
they're going to offer it to Kate Hudson and and
(42:55):
I was like, okay, well, that's now we're out. I'm
sucking out. I can't do this game because I you know,
I can't compete on that level. Yeah, but listen, good
news is there's lots of TV to go around. There's
a lot of TV to go around. Uh, Cougar town
critics choice television award winner. I won an award. I
(43:20):
know you did. I'm just I know, but I'm still
shocked by it. How was your experience on Cougar town?
Do you have a good time? You loved it. I
loved it. I loved it. I loved it. It was
the perfect job at the perfect moment in my life.
I had had my first kid. I really wanted to
(43:43):
do something where I was going to be funny but
where I wasn't carrying anything, because I had an infant
right and I was a new mom and like twenty
nine and felt literally insane. But I needed money and
I wanted to work, and that was the thing too.
(44:03):
Like I think there was a part of me that
fought into that weird narrative that I think people have
kind of stopped with, which was, like I had heard
a lot from people, like once I became a mother,
like it all just fell away. I didn't care about it.
Went on my first audition one week after giving birth.
I was like immediately wanted what I wanted before. I
(44:28):
was like, where are my jobs? That's so funny. I
have never, I have never told this story, but you
just brought it up and it's the perfect transition. I
now I didn't give birth, and let me say I
understand it's not the same. Sleeping on a cot at
Cedar Sign I, however, is no joke for a large man. Okay,
(44:50):
let's just be very clear about that. I am not
comparing the two experiences. I'm simply saying that is laying
on a cot sleep, attempting to sleep on a cot,
and I left the hospital and I think I had
an animated show recording at nine in the morning that
(45:14):
next day. So, yes, I get what you're saying. Doesn't
it doesn't stop, it doesn't stop. Oh, Mark, my kid's Dad, mark,
left me at the hospital to go have a meeting
with Vince Vaughan about some movie that he and abby
were writing for him. Like had no choice. was like
(45:36):
you guys, good, you got it, I'M gonna I'll be
back in like an hour and a half. Okay, sure, sure, no, no, no,
do you think? Do you thing? Dude? Um. But so
cougartown came around just in a perfect moment and it
was the perfect show for me and I can't yeah,
and I can't say enough nice things about Courtney Cox
(45:57):
and also Bill Lawrence and Krista mill and Josh Hopkins
and Um Ian Gomez and Dan Bird, I mean like
Brian Van Holt, like everyone was incredible and we really
had such an amazing time, but especially Courtney Cox is
just the greatest. Exactly what you want as the star
(46:20):
of a show, because you know we've all experienced other things,
and she doesn't have to be as magnanimous and generous
and lovely and hard working and nonstop as she is.
She could just go live on her friends money. You know,
I mean truly. You know, I thought you were going
(46:42):
to say island or something more subtle. You were like, no,
live on her friends money. No, the friends money, but
I'm just you know, but she could be any version
of anything and but she's literally the great she was
the greatest boss, the best sort of mentor in terms
of what that kind of leadership should look like, and
(47:06):
I learned a lot just by like watching her and
how she treated everyone around her with such respect all
the time. That's awesome. That's that's so great to hear. Actually,
I don't know her. I've met her, but I don't
know her at all. So that's she also, it doesn't
she doesn't pull any punches, like if it's you know,
if there's an issue, like she is like, we need
(47:26):
to discuss this and figure out how to solve it,
like she's very much she's a boss. She's a boss,
she's a great boss. She's a great boss. That's awesome.
I mean, we could talk forever about all of your projects.
I do want to get too busy tonight. What was
your idea behind that? Wanting to adjust your career path
(47:49):
a bit? and well, it's it was a huge change
for you. What what was the impetus for that? Well,
a bit it was burnout with the industry, part of
the industry, and you know, I had done this pilot
for Tina fey and it was so great. It was
like me and Casey Wilson and Bradley Whitford Played Our
(48:10):
dad and Luke Deltredici was the writer and was going
to show run it, and Tina and Robert Carlack we're
producing it, and the show was so funny and I
was like this is it, like I this is it,
like I'm so happy that I got the thing finally,
like this is my thing, like I'm so grateful for this.
And then it didn't get picked up in the most
(48:32):
like unceremonious, weird fizzle of like they never it wasn't
like one of those things where they were like it's
not getting picked up, it's just they just kept holding
onto it's so weird and heartbreaking, you know, and I
was so heartbroken and I have been so heartbroken Brian
(48:57):
for so many years over so many different projects, and
I just was like why am I doing this to myself?
This is like torture. And around that time, or a
little bit earlier, I had started doing instagram stories and
that had become this whole thing, like people were like
(49:17):
all of a sudden, taking all this interest in me
and there were articles. The New Yorker wanted to write
an article about me and you know, there was all
of this attention on that. And Eric Gurian, who produced
this with Tina fe, called me and asked if I
wanted to have lunch when they were like the Emmy's weekend.
After that, pilot didn't get picked up. So a couple
(49:39):
of months later and he was like we want to
do something with you, like what do you want to do?
What kind of show do you want to do? Like
we want to figure something out, and I was like, Eric,
I'm not doing it. I can't be an actor anymore.
It's too much heartbreak. And he's like, well, you're obviously
entertaining and you're super watchable. How many People Watch your
stories every day? And I was like at the time,
I mean this is fucking crazy. At the time it
(50:02):
was like two and fifty thousand people a day. We're
watching my fucking stories, which is nuts. Now it's like,
I want to say it's like sixty five or something
like that. You know so, but like no one was
doing them and I just whatever. I got in on it.
You pioneered it, pioneered it. I pioneered the way that
everybody does it. I know it's so exciting that I
(50:22):
did that. Um, thank you, thank you, and I'm sorry,
but I was like, I don't know, but I'll let
you know. Like I don't know what I'm doing, I
don't know what the funk is that going to happen,
but I'll let you know. And then I went to
my manager at the time's birthday party. That was at
the MERV Griffin estate in Palm Springs, and I got
(50:45):
stoned and was like sitting out looking up at the stars,
like and I turned to mark and I was like
I have to have a late night talk show. That's
what it is. I have to have a late night
talk show, and he was like uh, okay, and I'm
like no, it's like the perfect confluence of things. I
(51:05):
love talking. I love having conversations with people about things.
I have so many friends. There aren't enough women that
have these shows. Like this is just stupid and it's
you know. So from that perspective, from a feminist perspective,
I was like, let's even the playing field. Since Chelsea left,
like no one has a nightly show. So I called
(51:28):
Gurian and I told him that's what I wanted to
do and he's like, well, I don't I don't know
if Tina and I are going to be I don't
know if we're the fit for that. We've never done that.
I don't know if that's what we want to do
right now. And I was like, okay, we'll just bring
it up to her. Let her know. He's like okay.
Then I went and took a meeting at my agents
at the time and they brought in like the brows
that do the talk show part of the agency. I
(51:49):
don't even know what that's called, hosting and hosting probably,
and they were very, I don't know, non committal, I
would say, like Christian. They were disinterested. They were like like,
they were like, I mean, we could try to set
you up with like maybe like a season showrunner that
does this, and then we could like come up with
(52:11):
a concept and then we could go pitch it. I
don't I don't know when. I was like you guys
really are not listening to me. I'm going to do
a late night talk show because the ghost of Merv
Griffin told me when I was stoned that that's what
I'm doing. And they were like okay, and no joke.
Four days later the phone rang and it was Eric
(52:34):
Gurrey and and he's like, well, I've got some news
and I was like what and he's like, I think
Tina and Dave miner just sold your late night talk
show to e over the phone. Amazing and literally, like
that's how it fucking happened like that. Tina had some
because her general, you know, her overall deal, is at universal,
(52:55):
and she had some call with e and they said, well,
we really want to get back into like a late
night talk show space and Tina was like, well, have
I got the show for you? and that was it, ma'am.
Within I would say like a month and a half,
like the deal was done and then within four months
we started like developing it and then we were greenlit
(53:19):
in August, I think, and then it premiered in October,
like almost exactly one year after the merv Griffin thing.
Crazy good experience. Oh, I loved doing the show. Yeah,
we had the best time. It was fantastic. We had
a real casey stange, and I, who we do our
podcast together and she was my showrunner for the show and,
(53:42):
you know, we really had a vision for what we
wanted it to be and we wanted it to be
different and for different a different audience than what other
late night shows have been. I didn't want to like
parent anyone else's style and I wanted to make it
for I literally wanted to make a show for me,
(54:06):
like something I would enjoy watching, you know. And I
felt really strongly about doing it multiple nights a week
because I think that it was like a little bit
of a challenge and a trial by fire and but
I think we got the show up and going really
so much faster than we would have if we were
(54:27):
doing it like once a week, you know. Um, and
I was, I'm really proud of it. I really am
proud of it. I love like loved it and I
loved our guests and everybody who came on the show
would leave and say something incredible like, honestly, this is
the best experience I've had on a talk show ever.
You know, like it was just Super Fun and we
(54:48):
were really sad. I was really, again, really sad, really
heartbroken when it was over, because I thought that by
taking control of it and being creatively in control and
an executive producer and like I was very involved with
every aspect of it, for some reason I thought I
(55:08):
would be better prepared for like, yeah, I was not. No. Yeah, well,
I'm so happy for you that you had the experience. Yeah,
and maybe again. Is that done? I mean, sure, I didn't.
(55:29):
I'm at this point now where I'm like, I'll do it,
I don't know, whatever what may, I'll do anything. Who knows? Again,
like you said, am I a comedian? Like, I don't
know what I am, Dude. I'm just like, I'm here,
I'm here. You're well, you're I don't know if you're
a comedian or not. Like I said, I don't even
I struggle with like those types of labels. But do
(55:52):
you do stand up? No, that's the thing to meet
comedian means stand up. I agree. Yeah, now you're changing story. Okay, fine,
I am changing my story. I know you are. That's
what I just I just called you out on it, busy,
God bless it. I uh so enjoy talking to you.
(56:16):
You really make me laugh. So, comedian or not, that's
that's that's really all I'm looking for. Good luck figuring
out what you want to do next. I know it
will be incredible and I appreciate so much you're coming
to talk to me. I'm so happy too. I love
talking to you, I love seeing you. Thank you. Thanks,
Brian Busy. That was incredible. Yeah, I'm still laughing. Thank
(56:52):
you for stopping by. To those of you out there listening,
it has been a pleasure hanging with you this beautiful Tuesday,
or or whatever day it is that you're listening. I'M
gonna be back next week, on Tuesday, same time, same place,
with another amazing guest, a guest who, by the way,
stars in one of my recent favorite television shows. Can
(57:17):
you guess what it is? I'll give you a hint.
He is a bad, bad man. We'll see you next week.
Off The beat is hosted an executive produced by me,
Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer Langley. Our producers are
(57:41):
Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris and Emily Carr our
talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is
Sammy Katz. Our theme song bubble and squeak, performed by
my great friend Creed Bratton Mumm
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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