Chris Long

Brian goes "long" this week with former NFL defensive end Chris Long! In a spirited and open discussion the two-time Super Bowl champ details his early life as the son of NFL Hall of Famer Howie Long, dealing with the pressures and high expectations from the football world as well as from around his dinner table, and later successes on his own terms with the Eagles. Listeners can catch Chris in his second career as host of the Green Light Podcast and regular panelist on the weekly highlight show, Inside the NFL now on CW. Listen to new episodes of Chris' podcast, Green Light.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
But I can remember being at halftime, being down twenty
eight three to that team and thinking I made the
wrong choice.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Like every other turn in my life, I screwed it up.
You know. Hi. My name is Chris Long, and I
have a football podcast. I used to play football for
a living.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Happy New Year. Everybody New Year knew me?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
No, not really.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
It's still off the beat and I'm still your same
old boring host Ryan Bomgartner. My guest today, Well is
true NFL royalty Chris Long. He is, of course, former
professional defensive end with eleven years in the NFL on

(00:56):
the Rams, the Patriots, and the Eagles. He has two
Super Bowl rings and the prestigious Man of the Year
Award to show for it. But when I say royalty,
I mean football. Well it runs in his blood. He
comes from a long line of NFL greats Long get

(01:17):
it nailed it. His dad, Howie Long, also has a
super Bowl ring with the former La Raiders. His brother
Kyle Long, Chicago Bear longtime offensive lineman, and his other brother,
Howie Long Junior, works for the current Raiders organization in
Las Vegas. The NFL is full of Longs. Well, guess

(01:40):
what Chris He's the first and only Long to ever
be on this podcast, so that is very special for him.

Speaker 4 (01:48):
I know.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
He also hosts his own podcast, green Light, where he
talks about sports and culture and all kinds of fun
stuff with really great guests. Not me yet. But in addition,
he's currently a host on the long running Inside the NFL.
But first, he's going to be my really fun guest
on my podcast. I know he is honored here. He

(02:14):
is the hard hitting and very funny Chris Long.

Speaker 4 (02:22):
Bubble and Squeak. I love it Bubble and Squeak. I know,
Bubble and Squeak. I cook it every mole over from
the ninety before.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
What's up, Chris Brian? How you doing?

Speaker 3 (02:47):
I'm great? How are you?

Speaker 2 (02:49):
I'm great. It's good to meet you. I'm a big fan.
I've enjoyed watching Talk Football too.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
So oh really do I hold up? Okay?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
Yeah, dude, you know what you're talking about. You're in
your team, and I know you know Rich a little bit.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
So yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
I go on his show every Monday. It's been He's
treated me really well in this space.

Speaker 3 (03:08):
So great guy, You've made it work for you, that's
for sure. Yeah. I think he's a great guy Dan
Patrick as well, and he's awesome, you know. I'll tell
you this. They've had me on to host some on
the the Good Morning Football there on the NFL network. Yeah,
and I'm serious. If it wasn't for that lifestyle change,

(03:32):
Like I love where I live now here in southern California,
If it wasn't for the New York and the like
four thirty am wake up calls on the East Coast time,
I would love to do. I have so much fun
doing that. Yeah, I don't know if I know what
I'm talking about, but I have a great time. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
But you know, I don't know if I know what
I'm talking about week to week, and I'm watching a
million games, so it's like the great equalizer you're watching football.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
It's hard to figure out. And I'm with you, dude.

Speaker 1 (04:00):
That's the reason I do my operation out of my
hometown so I don't have to be on one of
these shows that my alarm clock goes off at five
in the morning.

Speaker 2 (04:08):
Not for me. Yeah, Like I couldn't live in New York.
It'd be hard.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's where So where are you I'm in I'm in Virginia.
I'm right outside Charlottesville. I don't know if you've ever
been to UVA. I have, Yeah, it's it's I've grew
up here mostly so.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Well, I know that we're going to talk about that,
but I will tell you I'm just slightly older than you.
My best friend from high school went to uh UVA
and I saw Dave Matthews there.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Did you really? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, well he's still I saw Dave Matthews two weeks
ago running through the friggin' park like he just like,
he's like actually one of my producers. His sister works
with Red Light, their management company. Okay, and you know
he's like, he's still around. He kind of does regular
guys shit, which I love, and they show their shows.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
Their live shows are great.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah, he's he's awesome. Well, look, I want to talk
about your new found job and success, but I do
want to start back a little bit to your beginning
there where you still are Charlottesville, Virginia. Now, when you
were growing up, your dad spoiler alert, that's how we

(05:18):
long was playing in the NFL for the Raiders. Were
you traveling a lot with him or not so much so?

Speaker 1 (05:26):
Really, we moved to Virginia as soon as he retired,
and I spent the first seven almost eight years of
my life living in southern California. I lived, we lived
in Redondo, and then we moved up in the world
as dad got bigger paychecks and we moved to PV
and we moved out of that haunted house in Redondo
legit haunted house.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Haunted house. Yeah, it was crazy.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
I had like an imaginary friend that my mom claims
is actually a ghost. Name of the ghost was Nicy.
So Dad couldn't wait to get out of that house.
We had the paycheck got bigger, we moved to PV
and then he retired and we moved across the country.
Because my dad's from South Boston, Like you've seen the town,
and that's kind of like what he grew up in Charlestown.

(06:08):
So he didn't have like a super easy upbringing. He
didn't have a place to like just go back to.
So we looked at a couple places, and I guess
he played golf in Virginia and kind of fell in
love with it, and yeah, that's where we moved. So,
but when he was in Oakland, because he was like
the last Oakland Raider right in that first installment of
the Raiders in Oakland. You know, like it was interesting

(06:28):
growing up going to those games because you had to
be careful taking your little kid to a Raiders game,
even if he had like Raiders' clothes on, it was
just is a rough scene. And so, you know, just
growing up in that was really cool. But also getting
to meet some of the people that my dad played with.
Like my parents never made it like a big deal.
My dad just kind of tried to make it seem like, hey,

(06:49):
I'm normal, I have this job.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Here are my co workers. Yeah, they're my co workers.
Bo Jackson is in the kitchen. It's just Bo Jackson.
And like he never really overemphasized it.

Speaker 1 (06:59):
So I had a lot of cool experiences while my
dad played that. Not only it was cool as a kid,
but it shaped the way I thought about having kids
during my career and when I wanted to do that,
you know, seeing him come home beat up, stressed. And
now I'm sitting there in my eighth year in the league,
and I'm saying I'm glad I waited, because it is hard.

(07:22):
We waited to have our first first son, Whale, until
I was like thirty one years old, right, And I
think part of that would shape that as being a
kid whose dad plays in the NFL. It's great, but
he'd be the first to tell you, man, hey, sorry,
it was it was hard. It was hard to do
both jobs, be a dad and be present as a dad,
and when I get home kind of put work on

(07:44):
the back burner. So yeah, I spent eight years as
an NFL kid, and then we moved to Virginia.

Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well, I mean I have to ask the obvious question,
did you ever try to introduce Nicey to bo Jackson?
I mean, did you ever did you try? Did you
try to, you know, introduce nicy around or No? I
just want a private thing. This is a private thing.
It was made.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
It's spent a lot of time in the house with me,
my mom, you know, Mama's boy that my mom was
practicing corporate law until the third kid came along. And
you know, back in the day, it was me mom
and dad was at work twelve hours a day plus.
And you know, I think I think I needed a friend,
and I found one in this house. Now I know
where the house is, I kind of feel like going
back with one of these.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I want to ghost you, I know.

Speaker 3 (08:30):
I want to go with you and find.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
Out she swears it was a ghost. Dude.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
She was like, it wasn't an imaginary friend. Man, I
was pointing to people in the room. It's bad.

Speaker 3 (08:39):
Do you think it was a ghost?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
Yeah? Absolutely, I believed in that stuff. Do you believe
in that stuff?

Speaker 3 (08:44):
I don't know. I suppose so why not? I don't know. Yeah,
A lot of people certainly believe it, so they're likely
not wrong. I mean, look, no one who has seen
it doesn't believe it exactly, imactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
And that's the thing. You need a friend that you
trust to see it to believe it, you know, Like
I'll hear some celebrity that's like I got pinned down
in my bed. I'm like, yeah, well, do you have
book tour coming up or what's going on? Like, if
it's a friend, I'm more apt to believe that friend.
And I think my parents to be honest, we moved
to Virginia. We moved to this house. It was from

(09:21):
the eighteen sixties. You know, there's a lot of these
old brick houses that one's haunted too. Man, I don't
know what it is. I don't think my dad has
the antenna for this, but I do so.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
Here's the thing. I'm gonna say so, and I'm not
going to mention any show names because I don't want
to get in trouble. God am I going to get
in trouble? I needed the nicy story. So I got asked,
I have never told this, this is probably not good
tell it. I was asked to be one on one
of those shows, like a haunted experience show. That's all

(09:55):
I'll say. And I was like, has anything weird ever happened?
So I told a story that it wasn't. There was
no definitiveness for me, like, am I sure what this
was or whatever? I told this story. It's long and boring, apparently,
and I was told by the producers, you know, can

(10:16):
we make it a little more, a little more.

Speaker 2 (10:21):
Ghost Can we make a little bit Can there be
a ghost pussy?

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Yeah? Can we make a little more Yeah, a little
more ghosty or a little more hauntedy. And I'm like,
you know what, just like I'm out. I wasn't sure
I wanted to do this to begin with, but I'm
I can't.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
I know, I feel like you're exposing an entire industry.
Well that's why I'm vacation here.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
I know, That's that's why I'm dreading very lightly because
I don't want to get in trouble or get on
someone's naughty list this time of year. But that did happen.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
Well, Honestly, we're talking about doing some content around here
where I take like some of my old teammates places
and we do some crazy stuff. And you know, like
one of the ideas we were kicking around was like
spending a night in various of the most haunted places
in the United States and seeing if these big tough
guys we turn the lights off at night, who's gonna
leave the house first. So if we if we do

(11:15):
one of those, you know, this is a no frills,
no bs ghost show.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
We'll have you on you if you ever want to
take me.

Speaker 3 (11:22):
All right, I'm in. I will say this the New
Orleans thing. You can feel it, you can yeah. And
you hear the stories and you're like, whether they were embellished,
whether they're embellished or not, whether there was a producer
many many years ago that told them to beef it

(11:42):
up a little bit. But when you you're like, well,
if twenty five percent of this is true, like there
are things walking.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
If ten percent is true, all it takes is one
ghost for me to believe. So if it's one percent,
I thick I've got there.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
I wonder about that now too, you know with kids,
like you know, at what point you know, you're young
at this point, but like you're talking about like, oh,
there's Bo Jackson in the kitchen and it's like, let's
go visit dad on set and there's Robin Williams or whatever,
and you're like, yeah, you know how that shapes a person,

(12:19):
shapes you for you and you know, we'll talk about
your career. But like, is it early on that you're like,
I'm going to do what dad does.

Speaker 1 (12:29):
It's it's an interesting question because I think it does
shape who you are. I think in a lot of ways,
especially if you go into this vocation like I have,
because immediately, whether you know it or not, you're being
served humble pie. I mean, yeah, your dad, My dad's
got a gold jacket. You know, Like I go to league.
You know, I have a really good career, one that
I'm proud of. But you're never gonna you know, the

(12:51):
chances of you doing that are pretty low. So in
my house, you know, I come home for Christmas break
or for you know, whatever it is, and come back
to my hometown. I'm at the dinner table with Hall
of Famer, you know, Pro Bowl guard Kyle, my brother
for the Bears. You probably watched him play once or twice. Yeah,
we're on the right side of those games. And then

(13:11):
it's me and you know, like the point is, we
all had good runs in our own right. But I
never walk around like my shit doesn't stink, because I
have evidence everywhere that it doesn't. And you know, like
from a very early age, like it's just reinforced how
normal it is. So the NFL was thrilling to me.
I wasn't motivated by the experience. I was motivated by

(13:34):
trying to succeed at something like the lifestyle. You know,
some of the highs they never got to me, maybe
like they could for somebody else. And I think it
keeps you humble, but it also keeps you from enjoying
some of the big moments at times because you're like,
you know, a lot of the guys I play with,
you go back to your hometown, you're like the one
of one of one, right, and everything you do in

(13:55):
your career is framed in the context of your dad's
a Hall of Famer.

Speaker 2 (13:59):
Are you going to live up to that? Are you
going to be that? Are you gonna you know?

Speaker 1 (14:02):
And then being drafted high it's the same thing. And
so I think it's always been a challenge. But for
some kid that grew up with no resources and didn't
get looks coming out or whatever, like, I'm sure he's not.
I'm sure although they could empathize with my plight, they
have their own plight which is way different. And so
I think no matter how you get to the NFL,

(14:23):
it's kind of a miracle. I mean, there's so many
kids with that dream. It was never a dream for
me early on because I was just into other stuff
and my parents didn't steer me that way. And I
think my dad did a really good job of you know, hey,
you can be whatever you want to be. But his
whole thing was like, you better bust your ass. So
if you're going to be an engineer, like I better

(14:43):
see you building some bridges, buddy, and like, you know,
like whatever it is. And so I think it shaped
me for the better. It also took some of the
enjoyment maybe out of my career. Being honest, I loved
every minute of it. But in a twisted kind of way,
like I love the challenge, you know, I like to
know what I'm made of, and and I got more
out of that in the NFL than I did probably

(15:05):
just be like, man, I'm living the dream because I've
seen what that's like.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
I grew up in it, and it's more normalized for me.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Well, it's interesting. You know you have three brothers and Kyles, yeah,
two brothers or two brothers, three of yeah, yeah, three total.
And you know Kyle playing on the offensive line guard
for so long, you are playing essentially the same position
that your dad played, who's a Hall of Famer. But

(15:34):
there's something else interesting about your dad, which I mean,
maybe this is obvious, Maybe this is so dumb, maybe
it's obvious. Well, it doesn't take anything away from his
playing career. So let me be very clear. I don't
want to piss off any lungs.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
But no, he's not the one that's gonna get pissed out.

Speaker 1 (15:52):
He's pretty secure, and I mean, you get that mustard
jacket your no.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
But what I'm saying is is that he now is
elevated because he's also still every Sunday on television.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
And because he looks like he's thirty one, Well what's
going on with that?

Speaker 3 (16:15):
But you see him, you see him every week, and
you're like, yeah, he could still play. Yeah, it's weird
in that. I mean, he's an amazing player, he's got
the mustard coat, Hall of Famer. But also he's just
still in our consciousness. And it's like, even though you know,
I was very young when he was playing and I

(16:35):
don't have specific memories of his dominance, I also grew
up with him. Yes, and even kids who are twelve
today or whatever, like they still is aware of him
and his you know, the shadow which you're having to
live in, you know, to this day.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
It's funny, funny story, like the order I got in
the league.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
When I got in, it's like, yeah, you're how He
Longs And when you know, when I played high school football,
is how He long Son. If I had an accolade
that I accomplished, it was, Hey, it's because you're how
He long Son, or you had a scholarship, It's because
you're how He long Son or whatever it is. When
I got in the league, I could feel that pressure
and it followed me intrinsically, like that's just who I
am I feel pressure. I tried to convert it into output.

(17:21):
You know, that's just the way I operate. It's not
the healthiest way to operate, you know. I said to
my dad last week because we were in the hallway.
First he congratulated me because he saw my podcast was
the number one podcast in the country. It's not true.
He just saw somebody Spotify rapped, so he didn't really
understand the Spotify rap thing, and he was like, yeah,
you beat out Joe Rogan, good job, like and I'm like, nah, Dad,

(17:43):
you know, but the whole thing is, you know, I've realized,
and part of it is just being his son. And
you know, nothing you ever accomplished is good enough for
other people, so eventually it's not good enough for you.
I kind of came to gross with the fact that
I'm I'm not a miserable but I'll never be satisfied
that and I think that's been a tool that's helped me.

(18:04):
It hasn't helped my quality of life, but it's helped
me and the guys in here laughing because they're my
producers and they know I'm never satisfied and that's a
gift and a curse and you get it from that
that situation. But my dad did such a good job
transitioning into the next act. And for a guy from
South Boston who had, you know, an accent, grew up

(18:25):
in a messed up situation, really brilliant cat, but not
like as he went to Oxford to sit in that
chair for now twenty five years and maybe it's longer
that group for him to be the constant through Ronnie
Lott and you know like James Brown and a bunch
of guy Chris Collinsworth. You see where he's he's been

(18:45):
and Dad's just been steady and that's the kind of
guy he is. That's why I respect him so much
because you know what you're gonna get. He is who
he is and he's not going to be trying to
try to be something he's not. And I think in
football he he helped me a lot because he's the
same way as me. I'm thinking about the Super Bowl
I played in a couple of years ago that we

(19:05):
won with the Eagles, and instead of it being one
hundred percent joy in my head, there's a big twenty
five percent of me that wanted to get the ball
off Tom Brady. You know that and I can't get
over that twenty five percent and it's a real thing.

Speaker 3 (19:18):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
And you know, that's the way my dad was.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
He's looking over his shoulder at somebody trying to take
his job or you know, he was that poor kid
from South Boston and I didn't.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Grow up that way. But he passed.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
He passed that.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
He passed that paranoi on to me and I'm the
oldest son and that sort of thing. So he's helped
me a lot after football too, because he's stuck the
landing on that thing, which is hard. And I think
retirement's hard for athletes in general. I mean we've seen
evidence of that at every turn. But for him to
make that transition and get in on it before the
space was too crowded, and he's a fixture, and as

(19:51):
these guys age, I mean, at some point there'll be
other guys at that desk and same thing with CBS
or whatever. But when I watch him the rare times
I turn on the TV on Sunday to watch the
pregame show because Kyle's on TV too. I don't want
to pick a favorite like Dad does not. He doesn't
fall off. I mean he because he never overextends himself

(20:12):
or tries to be something he's not, And I think
people appreciate that about him. When I'd walk out of
a game in the tunnel, he knew exactly what I
was thinking. Everybody else patting you on the back, but
he knows that one play, or on a day where
maybe you had a great game but you didn't get
a sack or whatever, he knows you played.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Well.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
We might get yelled at on Monday, but that guy
knows everything about how I'm evaluating my situation and give
me that one piece of advice, encouragement, or that hey
swift kick in the ass. So like, dude, you need
to be better set in the edge this week. I
know people are patting your on the back about this,
but I see it, and so I appreciated that at

(20:48):
every turn, that's where it really helps. Where it hurts,
is going to make you feel the pressure, and for
some people it crushes him right, you know, And it
almost did it a couple points in my career, in
my life. But I'm better for it.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
He obviously was, as you just mentioned, giving you some
specific advice. Yeah, talk to me a little bit though,
you know you mentioned the diverse activities that you were doing.
I mean baseball, basketball, lacrosse, obviously football. Talk to me
a little bit about the influence and impact your high
school coach, John Blake, Oh yeah, had on you.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
He's the man. I just texted him the other day
and I said something similar. I mean, like, you know,
I got an honor for something here and he was congratulating,
and I was like, well, helps, I had a pretty
good high school coach. And you know, in typical John
Blake fashion, he's like, well, when you have good players,
you know, He's just not the type you know, when
you think about like the prototypical, you know, the dramatized

(21:42):
version of a high school coaches. He's the legend in
his own mind. It's like Bud Kilmer from Varsity Blues.
But this guy is totally different, soft spoken, somebody that
for me, and it's not just John Blake, it's also
Al grow at Virginia and for a young person, even
with a lot of positive male role models in my
life like my dad or his friends or you know,

(22:02):
some other folks, these coaches are so important. And John,
for me, he used to read us a poem called
Man in the Glass and I can almost recite the
whole thing. I mean I can, and I used to.
I don't know if you ever heard it, but it's
about looking in the mirror and satisfying that person in
the mirror. And of course I've still haven't found a
way to do that, but if you get pretty close,
you'll be okay. And if a high school coach leaves

(22:25):
you with one thing that you take with you throughout
your life, I think that person did their job. And
I just have the utmost respect for that vocation and teachers, right,
you know, because young men especially, we need the extra help.
And I was one of those guys that I wasn't
a great student. I knew I was smart, I guess,
but you know, I struggled to make the grade. I

(22:47):
struggled to stay focused. I've had ADHD my whole life.
I've talked about it on my podcast recently, finally doing
something about it, taking some medication for that. But like
that was really hard for me growing up, and so
for a person like John who just was like the
ADHD whisper. And I always say in D line rooms
in the NFL, it's like a daycare center. The biggest,

(23:09):
baddest dudes. But we're all children, you know, It's just
it's a zoo in there. You have to have a
certain kind of teacher that can manage young men.

Speaker 2 (23:17):
And you know, John.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Was amazing and I'm still friends with him and Mary
and his kids, and it's pretty awesome. I mean, having
guys like that in your corner.

Speaker 3 (23:26):
Well, he was obviously doing a lot right. This, of course,
was at Saint Anne's Bellfield School there in Charlottesville, two
thousand and three. Your senior year squad goes undefeated, you
play your last high school game in the state championship,
you win the state championship. You walk off the field.
No better feeling as a young athlete than that, Yeah,

(23:50):
no better feeling.

Speaker 1 (23:51):
And Brian like I I've always been somebody that tries
to overappreciate the moment because I just see it kind
of slipping. I just do it like I'm times precious
and being where you are is precious, and no matter
how much you try to slow it down, it's not stopping.
And I think that's where you just stop and smell
the roses. But I remember sitting on the stairs and being.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Like, this is really it.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
I can remember a couple of those those things throughout
my football career where you're like, I cannot believe whether
it's walking out of the Superdome a couple of years ago,
and I hadn't decided that I was going to retire yet,
but I had a feeling when I took my helmet off,
this could be the last time I put on a helmet.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
I haven't had a football.

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Helmet on, something I did every day my whole life
since I was fourteen, like most kids.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
But then I get to play.

Speaker 1 (24:33):
To thirty three, thirty four years old, right, like that's
your life, and you know, every chapter, as the page turns,
you got to stop and think, you know, and I
think for me, all I remember was the bittersweet feeling of, man,
this was like stuck the landing on this thing, and
I'm committed to Virginia. I get to go down the
street to school and all this stuff, and man, what

(24:54):
a cool run it was. But there was a guy
with Shaan Jennings. He played ten years in the league.
He was a two hundred fifty pound running back. I
swear he's like a AJ Dillon kind of guy. You know,
he was playing running back in high school and he
hit me harder than I've been hit my entire career.
On the sideline there in the state championship game, the
first time I ever stayed down in my entire career.

(25:14):
I stayed down probably ten to fifteen seconds. And again
I'm walking out of the stadium and we're state champions
and all I can think about was getting knocked on
my ass in front of two hundred people or every
may were at the game right right, so you know
at every turn, whether it was like Saint Louis the
last game that was weird, man, you know, like we
were kind of I'm sure we'll get to it, but
we were kind of we were moving, we were moving.

(25:36):
I knew I was getting cut and playing on like
a broken leg, like trying to come back. Look terrible.
We're playing the Bucks. It's a color rush game, so
it looks like Ketchup and mustard. It's disgusting. It's the
last game at the ever Jones Thome.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
You know.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Now they're doing Monster Truck rallies there, and I just
remember thinking like this is it, you know, And sometimes
it's ceremonious, like your high school state championship, and sometimes
it's like unceremoniy in a big way, and you don't
know how to feel about it. And I just think
as a football player, you have a bunch of those
moments and you just try to soak in the moment,
be present.

Speaker 3 (26:26):
Why did you go to Charlottesville? I mean, look, you
end up playing in the US Army All American bull
out of high school. You're you know, kicking ass, your
team is great. You likely, whether you'd say it or not,
you could have gone anywhere you wanted to go. Not
only do you decide to go to Virginia and be
called a wahoo, which is still.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Yeah, I can try to.

Speaker 3 (26:50):
Explain, but yeah, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (26:53):
Supposedly a fish that can drink its weight and water
some multiple like three three tons waiting water or something.
We took a lot of pride in being huge drunks.
I guess, so I don't know.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
So not only do you go there, but you decide
your junior year was it just a hometown thing?

Speaker 1 (27:13):
Honestly, this is cathartic because it kind of feels like
there's a theme here. But it was because of my
lack of confidence. I just thought I took my first offer.
I went down to Virginia and al grow had a
big Super Bowl trophy on his desk from when I
was with the Giants. And you know, this is this
guy that my dad speaks highly of, and my high
school coach speaks highly of. He's a pro coach. And

(27:34):
I didn't know what I wanted at that point. I
don't know if I want to play pro ball. I
just wanted to do the thing. I wanted to do,
the thing in front of me, Like I just I
wanted to do the best I could at whatever I
was doing. I wanted to play baseball for a while,
but I couldn't hit the curveball, so that's.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
Going to be a problem. And uh, I think that.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
I think the weights ended up being a problem there,
and so I ended up I ended up just committing
to Virginia.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
It was the first offer I got.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
I remember watching Florida State play at night and thinking like, oh,
that'd be cool. This is back when they had so
many great players and they do again now. But I thought, honestly,
I don't know if I could play there. And when
you have a dad who's so honest with you, I'll
never forget this story and he and he always says,
I never said that, or you're misrepresenting it. So sorry, dad.

(28:19):
But when I was a junior, I got a letter
from like all these schools, and I got a couple
IVY League letters, and he was like, hey, now we're talking.
He goes, I don't know that you're athletic enough to
play and at the D one A level, like I
think you could be a killer guard. And that strategy
eventually worked on my brother. But I just, uh, I

(28:41):
think I think the humility of the whole thing and
the doubters and people, you know, I listened to it
when I was younger. I was like, all right, well,
I don't want to take this chance and go far
away from home to some program where I might not
be good good enough, and and I think al and laundry,
home cook meals, like the security of it.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I'm a safe back guy.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
Uh yeah, in case you see Nicey again.

Speaker 1 (29:04):
Yeah, no, no, nice he's in Cali. That's why I
didn't go to USC.

Speaker 3 (29:07):
Well, no, rules the case mom's there, she'll she'll help
you out. Yeah. I saw an interview with you when
you're in college. You mentioned going up against not just
a man, the man the brickshaw Ferguson there in practice
he make you better.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Yeah, but sometimes you go against somebody that good, you
can't work your stuff like you got to just you
got to survive, right, Like his arms were so long
you reach out and touch me from five feet away,
and you know, we ran like a three four, which means,
you know, I'm an inside shade of the tackle, as
you know, and in a four eye and I'm trying
to get a pass rush from that position. It was
just like having a dance partner for six seconds of

(29:50):
play and he wasn't letting me go. It was like,
and not just him, but Eugene Monroe and Brandon Albert,
like that entire group because al was so pro style like,
so we recruited big guys. We had big front seven,
big linemen. We weren't as good on the back end.
The parallel would be Lane Johnson in Philly. I really
do think Lane and Trent Williams gets a lot of

(30:12):
credit if you like Trent or Lane, Like, I'm not
gonna argue either way, but as a pass blocking tackle
over the last ten years, I'm not putting anybody above
Lane Johnson. And when I got there at thirty two,
thirty three years old, and I had to practice against
him every day. It felt like du Brickishaw again, where
you're like, this is great, but I can't actually try stuff.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
You need to rep different movies to practice. Yeah, I
get practice. You're too good. So yeah, it was tough sometimes.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
I mean you bring that up. Defensive linement get a lot,
they get a lot of money, they get a lot
of talk. Secondary guys corners the same. Obviously you got quarterback,
wide receiver. But you look at you know what happened
in San Francisco when Trenton was down. Yeah, and when

(31:00):
Lane is maybe not quite healthy or whatever, like the
impact that those guys have.

Speaker 2 (31:08):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (31:09):
Obviously Bactiari for a long time at Green Bay player,
same deal. And as much as they talk about them,
people like your dad on on television, it's still no
one thinks about. No one goes there. And you're right,
and you're right with the Jets this year or two
and it's like, well they're not scoring because of this
or that, but also like they got to.

Speaker 2 (31:29):
Protect no question. You know, like when San Francisco had
that dip, people were looking at, Hey, Debo's not out here.
You know, you're missing I forget who else that we're missing.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
But the most important thing I think, I think ayuk ayuk,
But the most important thing in that whole offense, because
of the way that offense runs, is the tackle that
can allow you to do so many things in the
run game.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
Not just he can cave a three technique on a
double team.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
He can get out in space and you can watch
a ten minute highlight tape of him running a DBS
like cones in a parking lot, like like just it,
bounce it, I mean, and then these guys can't even
cut these guys anymore. And so it's like, how do
you want me to play Trent Williams In's base, I'm
giving up one hundred and fifty pounds. And it's we
make a big deal about the pass pro right, because

(32:16):
when a guy's missing, you can see, hey, the Eagles
don't feel as good Jalen Immediately in that.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Bills game, Lane's down with a groin.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
Immediately, I'm seeing Jalen check that side a lot, which
is taking his eyes off his progression. You know, like
you might not be getting pressure, but it is affecting
the ebb and flow of that quarterback's process, right. And
I think the same way in the run game. On
a team like San Francisco, they're so dynamic because they
stress every level of defense.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
You have to respect every key.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
Not only that, but they have personnel groupings that all
look the same, you know, like you can run little
guy sets with big guys, and you can run big
guy sets with little guys because you have interchangeable pieces.
And the whole thing really, when you think about it's
from that hard run action to the perimeter and the
way that they live there is because they got that
big sob out there who might be the best at

(33:08):
his position of our generation in every phase. Now, having
said that, I think Lane should be in that conversation too, sure,
but when these guys are missing, it's not just the
simple oh he got sacked a lot, or they couldn't
run the ball. It's the entire offense, which is predicated
on both things working. And I think San Francisco, you
bring up a great point, is a perfect example.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Yeah, at what point when you're at Virginia do you go,
I'm going to the next level? When do you know?

Speaker 1 (33:35):
Honestly, I think it was a spring game. Maybe my
second year, like my first year, I struggled, you know,
being so far away from home ten minutes. That was
hard for me.

Speaker 2 (33:44):
And then on top of that, I think it was
just the scheme.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
I was in a three to four, you know, like
when I was eighteen, I wasn't thinking about that stuff.
You know, I think kids now are so much more
educated because of these camps and because of the process.
I just kind of took things as they came, and
you know, the scheme wasn't perfect for me, but and
coach grow was tough, like it was like a shock,
but I liked him, and I came close to transferring

(34:10):
my freshman year. I looked at cal and Ohio State
and I got right to the cusp of like doing it,
and I just was like, now I'm not a quitter.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
I'm going to stick it out.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
And you know, I don't want to be that guy
now in today's day and age, maybe out of bounce
because it's just so much more normalized. But I stuck around.
And then my second spring game, we come out there
and I think I had like three sacks and I
just felt like things were coming together for me and
I said I might be able to play. And then
my junior year, I had a really nice year. I
can remember distinctly huddling around the kitchen table with my

(34:44):
dad and his like business advisor who was kind of
going to help me a little bit. And that's where
this stuff really helps. To have a dad, you know
that been through it, the business acumen, the contracts, the process,
and we're sitting there discussing it. In the NFL, if
you're a junior and you send in your draft grade,
I don't know how much has changed, but we looked
at the draft grade, which was the bottom of the

(35:05):
first draft grade. So I was if they said, if
I came out as a junior, I probably get picked
thirtieth or you know, twenty eighth.

Speaker 2 (35:12):
My dad was like, take the money, man.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
You know.

Speaker 1 (35:15):
I had Anthony Poindexter on my staff, who was one
of the greatest football players I had ever seen and
would have been like Ed Reid had he not torn
his knee to pieces. And he's actually the DC at
Penn State now doing a great job. But he was
one of the best football players in Virginia history. He
came back his senior year and I can remember being
a little kid on the hill, which is the hill

(35:36):
up there where you get kind of GA tickets, and
I remember going not a little kid, because I was
sneaking across the street to drink like vodka out of
a Deer Park bottle. But when I got back in
the stadium, I was like, where's Anthony Poindexter. He was
like a god and they carted him off because he
was back. And I think they played NC State and
he took a chance and it backfired and he lost

(36:00):
generational wealth because of that. He was like, you know,
look what happened to Dex. You know, like, hey, buddy,
you can't take chances here. And the same thing went
for his buddy Steve, who said the same thing. And
I said, guys, like, I got a bet on myself here.
I think I can do more this senior year. And
I just remember coming out that senior year as a
team and as an individual and being like this is

(36:21):
an all or nothing year. And I put it together,
had like a really good year, led the country and
some stuff and went to some award banquets and it
was like a dream. And our team we won like
five seven close games. They called us like the cardiac Cavs.
So whether it was Yukon or Middle Tennessee State, surviving
on like a block field but we almost got stranded

(36:41):
in Murphysboro after that game. If we had lost that
game to be terrible, we're sitting on the tarmac for
two hours. It was just a magical year. And I'm
so glad I did it. I'm so glad I take
the chance. But I also had the safety net to
do it. And anytime I've talked to younger people about
like big decisions, like hey, when I go talk to
my kids private school, you guys have huge safety nets,

(37:02):
So take chances and do them. Balls out. That's a
really good point. You know, it's not it's not it's
not the same. I wouldn't walk into an inner city
school where kids are first generation college kids, or walk
into a school where a kid kind of grew up
that way and say, hey, you got to go. You
got to stay here and be loyal to your family.
So it's easy for me to say, hey, loyalty, loyalty, loyalty,
take a risk. That was just what worked for me,

(37:24):
and it paid off, and it paid off a lot
because I got picked in top five and made a
lot of money.

Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, I mean that's a really mature and astute observation there.
You know, it's tough. You have to look at the
at the totality of the situation, and if you don't
have a safety net and you're in exactly the same position,
you're like, I could be drafted thirtieth, Like that's incredible,
Like that's incredible.

Speaker 2 (37:49):
Better team too, could have been a packer or something.

Speaker 3 (37:52):
Yeah, well, yeah, I know.

Speaker 2 (37:55):
Eight years in Saint Louis.

Speaker 3 (37:57):
I would have liked that. It worked out well for you.
Dudley Award winner Near to the top NCAA football player
in the Commonwealth of Virginia two thousand and seven, ACC
Defensive Player in the Year won the Hendricks Award, which
is the top award given to a DEE and the
nation unanimous All American. You received a first place vote.

(38:22):
Here's a question your for the Heisman. Does your dad
have a hes vote?

Speaker 1 (38:27):
Now, there's a couple of things he doesn't have. Now
he might have he doesn't have that. He might have
a gold jacket. He might be getting royalties for Firestorm
in three thousand Miles to Graceland. Or he might have
been in a movie with Tom Hanks, which I forget
the name of that one, but it's pretty funny. Actually,
in one of the deleted scenes. He's supposed to be
Tom Hanks's boyfriend. And that's a possible movie. What's it
that thing you do? It's a movie?

Speaker 2 (38:49):
Exactly what movie is this? No, he might have he
might have all these things, but he doesn't have a
first place Heisman vote.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Yeah, have you been told who voted for you first? No?

Speaker 2 (39:00):
But I like to drug test that person.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
I really would you like to go back and see
how much drugs that writer was on because I appreciate it.
But yeah, no, And it was cool because we had
a lot of story dudes that I went to all
those banquets with Glenn Dorsey and Matt Ryan and and
you know Vernon Goldston if you remember him, Like, there
were some some really good players.

Speaker 3 (39:22):
You get drafted second overall, and weirdly, the second long
to be drafted, you go to Saint Louis. Do you
think you're gonna be in Saint Louis forever? Like? Is
that your mindset? Just like Charlotte's filt? Like are you
like here I am, I'm a lifer. I'm gonna Derek
Jeter this or whatever?

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Like I think I think I really did take things.

Speaker 1 (39:45):
And it sounds cliche, but when you're a kid and
you get dropped into a situation like that with all
that pressure, and you know, if you get picked that high,
your team's gonna suck.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
You just know that.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
I mean like, yeah, I remember, yeah, you know, yeah.
I just thought of things as like what everybody's like,
what an accomplishment? And I just knew as soon as
I walked onto that podium, like I got my work
cut out for me, because for you to justify being
picked out high as hard, and then to do it
on a team where things aren't good, it's even harder,
Like it's just not going to be an easy road.
And I remember getting on the elevator in New York

(40:17):
after the draft, like during the draft, and I got
on with these two big dudes, and they obviously were
like rams.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
I think one was like Leroy Glover.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
And these guys ended up being my best buddies because
they were like my big brothers. But at the time,
they just glared at me and they were like, get
ready to get to work, and you know, like I'll
never forget that elevator ride because I already knew I
had to get to work, but seeing the grown men
that I was going to be either cutting into their
snaps rightfully or wrongfully, or being depended upon. Like it

(40:49):
became a whole nother level of accountability. And I learned
a lot because in the old NFL, the CBA was different,
so we actually had two a days, we had training
camp properly.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Guys today I hate selling an old guy. They don't
deal with that.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
And then on top of that, there were a lot
of older guys in the league because now in today's game,
they're too expensive, you know. And I thought this was
just the way it was always going to be. But
I learned so much even through the one in fifteen,
two and fourteen seasons, and I saw so many people
come and go. So I don't know if it was
the fact that, like at times, it felt like I
was there one hundred years because nobody else was there

(41:25):
as long as me. I can remember my equipment manager,
Jimmy Lake, joking like five years in Like I think
a coach yelled at me once, like in front of
the team, and Jimmy was my guy, and he's like,
you'd be here longer than all these motherfuckers, And I
was like, I don't know if it's a good thing, but.

Speaker 2 (41:41):
It turned out to be true, because you know, like
we were so bad and we cycled through so many people,
and then Jeff Fisher came and we were close. But
by my eighth year in Saint Louis, my seventh year
I had the closest parking spot to the building, which
means that like I'm the oldest guy. I'm twenty nine,
twenty eight, thirty years old. And so the NFL changed

(42:02):
a lot, and I did love Saint Louis. In fact,
my wife coach did John Burrows, where Jenna Fisher from
the office went. Yeah, so I met her and I
met John Ham because he went there too. It's like
the who's who Ezekiel Elliott went there to the school.
Yeah yeah, my wife coached there, so we really made
a lot of inroads.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
Man, do you know John Ham taught there too, I.

Speaker 2 (42:27):
Guess, so, I guess I found out afterwards.

Speaker 1 (42:29):
But I've seen him at Bonnorou and then like in
Vegas just randomly at the wind like checking in, and
every time he's super cool and he remembers me, and
he's a great guy. It's unfair for be that good
looking and be a nice guy. Why can't you be
an asshole. Yeah, but like we really made roots there,
Like I love the Blues, Like we went to the

(42:50):
sporting events.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
I had my favorite bars. I'd go to the same places.

Speaker 1 (42:54):
I'd kill to go back to to one of these
places in University City or a bar in the Loop.
Like I love Brad Hall. I used to drink with
him at the cigar bar at the Ritz. Have you
hung out with him?

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Oh yeah, he's a good punny of mine. He's awesome.
He's a good penny of mine. He's awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Mean it was great. I loved everything about it, but
we just couldn't win.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
And I hated it for those fans because I lived
in a hotel.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
My eighth year, I knew, I you know, yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (43:24):
Was captain of the team my sixth, you know year,
my seventh year, I think, and you know, like I
was one of the guys, like I was. I was
playing really well, and my career was doing this and
and I got hurt two years in a row, and
you know, tried to play hurt and that never ends well.
And and my eighth year, by the time I came
back from the second injury, we checked into a hotel
because I knew I'm getting cut or the team's moving,

(43:47):
and it was a super weird year. And that was
the year of Tampa Bay game that last came at
the Edward Jones Dome.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
It was eerie.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
You know, It's like I did feel like I'd been
there for a lifetime, and it feels like a lifetime
ago now.

Speaker 3 (43:59):
It's interesting. There's a show I don't know if you
ever went and watched it, All or Nothing, where they
do this series, and there was an all or Nothing
about the Rams their first year in Los Angeles, and
Fisher ends up getting fired and things are not going
well there at all, and I ended up working on it.

(44:22):
That's a long story for another day. But you know,
one of the things that was very clear was how
difficult it was just the move, just operationally, and everything
is temporary. Here's a temporary practice facility and a temporary stadium,
and where am I going to live? And where are
my kids going to school? And what's the traffic pattern

(44:45):
when we have to go to practice and all of
those things. They were just really difficult.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
It was tough, and I think part of the reason
conspiracy theorists will tell you that part of the reason
Jeff was hired was to orchestrate a move because he
had gone through that with Houston, Tennessee and Saint Louis
fans to tell you that that team was kind of
stolen from out from under them, And I would agree,
like I would agree in a lot of ways, but
I don't think Jeff was necessarily complicit. I think Jeff

(45:13):
was just doing his job as a coach, and Stan wanted,
you know, he wanted the Olympics in LA. He wanted
like and sometimes that's just you got to realize what
these guys, they're not thinking like us. They're business people.
The more money they can make, no questions asked, that's
what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
You know. It's a chart that tells you decision A
or B.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
It's like follow the money for these guys, and so
Saint Louis never really had a shot and now they
actually have Super Bowl parties in Saint Louis without the
game on, which I think is that's how spiteful they are.
And I totally appreciate that. And it's also put me
in a weird spot, Brian, because I played two years
in Philly.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I loved everything about it.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
I really clicked in that city and we won, and
so of course I'm passionate about the Eagles. My kids
love the Eagles like it's a family thing. My wife's
from South Jersey. My parents went to Villanova. But when
I don't give that same love to the la Rams,
people get kind of.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
Butt hurt about it.

Speaker 1 (46:07):
Yeah, and it has nothing to do with anything other
than the fact that, like, hey, I played for eight
years in Saint Louis, it is a fundamentally different thing.
As much as I'd love to follow the team, and
I still have some friends. I talked to Aaron Donald
this morning. Actually, I love some of those people, the Trainers,
the less Snead, the guy cut me. I had him
over for dinner. Less Sneed the next summer. I have

(46:27):
no ill Will. But it is a different thing. You know,
when the franchise moves, it doesn't feel like the same franchise.
And so that was tough actually on that show. I
don't know if you remember the guy that loves Mermaids,
William Hayes. He doesn't believe in dinosaurs. He's like my
best friend. He was just he visited me like two
months ago.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
He talks to Nicey.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
He definitely talks to Nicy, but still he still figure
out of it. He's still talking to us.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
Yeah, before we talk about Philly.

Speaker 3 (47:13):
You go to the Patriots for one year. Shocker, you
win the whole thing after years of losing. Now it's
got to be fun to be on the other side
of it. Not only that you went in overtime, the
biggest comeback in the game's history. By the way, I'm
from Atlanta.

Speaker 2 (47:35):
Yeah, I saw that. Do you care? Are you like
a Falcons fan? I thought you're a Packers fan. Well,
I complicated.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Here's the thing, it's got to be kind of like
for you too, maybe in a way, not exactly. I'm
not comparing myself to you. I do root for my friends,
so I mean, I start as a kid, I was
a Falcons fan, of course, and I have gotten to
know oh, you know Matt Ryan quite a bit. Great
guy and great guy, I really And it's weird because

(48:08):
I think for like, I wasn't going to every Packers
you know, I would go once or twice a year
and hopefully the playoffs or whatever. But it was weird,
like there was a stretch there when Atlanta was also good. Yeah,
that two years in a row, and I always liked
going to Lambeau when it's cold, like I like, I
like that, And two years in a row they're playing

(48:30):
the Falcons just like, however the schedule like kind of
and so I would be there, you know, before the
game or whatever on the field saying and there would
be Matt always so nice coming over and saying hi,
or as I'm wearing like the green beanie, and I
was like, god, like it was a difficult thing for me.
But yeah, no, I was not rooting for you in

(48:51):
that Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
No, And that's okay.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I mean, like I was not you won, So course
I totally understand because like I wouldn't have been rooting
for me my like I can remember being a I've
been a big Patriots defender at times because I think,
like their franchise is amazing.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
I think Tom's amazing.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
But I also used to hate him because in college
coach grow he's like from the Belichick tree. He used
to make us where the stupid striped socks and we
had all the same sayings on the wall and shit.
So I remember being at the bar like boo, like
when David Tyree caught that ball and then it's yes, boo,
and then and then we get to the super Bowl,

(49:27):
and it came down to for me in free agency,
and I almost retired before I went up there, but
I gave it some time.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
I was like, okay, I want to keep playing.

Speaker 1 (49:35):
I've never gotten to win, you know, I've never been
to the playoffs, never sniffed it. I got to feel
like cash in on some of his individual's success, enjoy
what it's like to.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Be on a team. And it came down to Atlanta
in New England, and my dad used to say, well,
I steered him away from Atlanta, but it was a
traffic in Atlanta. Honestly for me, it's terrible traffic in
that city. I mean Flowery Branch to Atlanta's like it's
it's a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Before I got to the meeting with Dan Quinn, I
was like, dude, I can't sit in the car like this.
But and he wanted to play me inside, So I
was like, I don't know if I want to play inside.
Because he wanted me to be as Michael Bennett from Seattle,
like he wanted me to be the inside, outside guy.
And ironically, when I got up to New England, that's
what I ended up doing. In New England is playing
out like not in where I wanted to play anything

(50:23):
like that, rushing on the right side, rushing inside. But
it was an individually trying year because I was trying
to find my way in that scheme, but also the
best year of football I can remember, because the guys
on that team, as much as you hate the Patriots
people in general, Devin mcforty, Jules Dany Amadola and Ninko
Tom would treat everybody with respect in that building, and

(50:47):
I just love the guys man and I love Bill.
Like when it came down to the you know, the
end of it, and we finished our parade and I'm
walking back in the building, all shit faced off the
duck boats and I'm like, I'm going in, I'm saying,
and there's no hard feelings, but like I know, I
can't keep playing here because of the scheme.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
People were like, yo, you're crazy, Like why would you
leave New England? You were a loser your whole career
and now you want to be a loser again.

Speaker 1 (51:11):
I just wanted to finish my career playing in a
scheme that was more suited for what I do. And
I can remember being in the prepping for the Super Bowl,
watching tape late at night in the hotel, and I
vividly remember this. I'm watching Atlanta because we watched that
team and everybody was played, and watching Atlanta play Philly
in a game at Philly earlier in the season, and

(51:33):
I looked at that d line and I was like, man,
that looks like what I used to do. And at
that point I wasn't even thinking about anything. But when
it came time for free agency. I had a buddy,
Ian Yates Cunningham, who's actually the assistant guy in Chicago
behind Poles, and I played with him in college and
he was in Philly with Joe Douglass and I just
called him. I was like, because nobody was calling me.

(51:54):
I was like, yo, do you think you use like
somebody like me? And they like, let me run up
the flagpole and it just all worked out. And so
like most people when they leave New England under their
own power, people are like, there's something wrong, but there
was nothing wrong.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
I love that place. I love the guys.

Speaker 1 (52:11):
I wasn't crazy about the sun going down at four
o'clock in the afternoon, but you know, as a southern
Cali guy, now you know what I'm saying, but I do.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
But I just needed to make the move.

Speaker 1 (52:20):
But I can remember being at halftime, being down twenty
eight three to that team and thinking I made the
wrong choice.

Speaker 2 (52:29):
Like every other turn in my life, I screwed it up.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
You know, why did you come back?

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Come back to where?

Speaker 3 (52:37):
Why did you win that game?

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Oh? Why do we come back? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (52:40):
Oh just tell me, just give me the right ants,
Just tell me.

Speaker 1 (52:44):
No, I'll tell you why, because I think that sometimes
when teams get up on a team and they know
the other teams better, and you start like that protection
mess up they had with Davante. I can't remember the
running backs Freeman, but Freeman, nice Devonte Freeman, and he

(53:05):
let high run free. When they made mistakes like that,
they gave us an inch. And when you play a
team like Tom Brady and the Patriots in that era,
if you give that team an inch, they're going to
take a mile and then the game changes to where
the pressure is all on you. And I thought the
pressure was too much for that team, that Atlanta team.

(53:26):
I think sometimes you can feel on a team that
has a history or a franchise that has a history
of like this thing happening, or this thing happening. You
can feel those things happening as they're happening, and I
think it's just snowball. And then finally, and I think
Shanahan should be talked about what we were talking about
this this week as one of the greatest coaches of
our generation, Kyle Shanahan, because look what he's done with

(53:48):
different quarterbacks. You know, you see Andy struggling a little
bit right now schematically with the problem they have in
Kansas City.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Bill, you know, could be just a guy. I don't
think so, but without Tom Brady and Shanahan as great
as a coach as he is, not running the football
up eight in that football game and kicking a field goal.
We knocked him out of field goal range twice with
a sack and a holding call. That's the game, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
And so I think it's a combination of not doing
the right things in the right situations, but also just
the feeling like once that game turned, you could tell
they knew and we knew. When we won the toss
in overtime, me Dante high Tower, Alan Branch and Rob Nikovich,
I said, we taking our helmets off, and they're like, yep,
take them off. Let's go sit and watch the show

(54:35):
because we're not going back on the field.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
And we knew it. And that's how it ended with
James White in the end zone.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
Incredible, It was wild.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
I didn't believe it, but I'm not gonna act like
I believe we were gonna win. Brian, Right, I'm in
the fucking locker room at the half, and why did
I make this call? I'm first off, I'm in Rob
Ninko because Nikovitch before the game, he is like my
best buddy there. He's like, just trust me, bro, you
were not going to want to lose a Super Bowl.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
You're gonna wish you went one in fifteen. You're gonna
wish you were in Saint Louis.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
We lose this game, and it was just echoing in
my head and we go in to the locker room
and guys are yelling, and I remember Julian being like, we're.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Gonna win this game, and I'm like, can we get
a stop? Like what do you know that? I don't know?

Speaker 1 (55:15):
And maybe it's the loser mentality of being in St.
Louis for eight years, but those guys knew. You talked
about it already. You go to Philly, you win back
to back with two different teams. That hasn't happened a lot,
and now you beat.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
The team that you just won with. I mean, it's
all weird, right, weird, Yeah, it's weird.

Speaker 1 (55:35):
It was like, I don't believe in karma in the
NFL because I've seen too many guys that I loved
and respected that didn't get the you know, the happy
ending at the end of their career, Like where James Laronidis,
he was right there with me on that turf, wasting
his prime. He ends up in New Orleans, his legs
fall out from under him, you know, in camp he
just never was the same. And for me to be

(55:56):
able to catch those two rides, it felt like a
movie and I was like, I don't know what I
did deserve this, but hopefully it's just my life, my
career kind of balancing out and Philly was so magic
because in New England you were part of a machine
and I got to feel what that felt like, and
that is a powerful thing. It's like walking into a
bulls locker room in the nineties, you know, like this

(56:19):
is sports history, Like these guys do this and it's
a different kind of feeling and the leaders man Dante
hiew are one of the best leaders period I've ever
been around, and like guys like that who are the
only way you have people like that is having done it.
And so that was a great experience. But going down
to Philly getting picked in the bottom third of league
total afterthought, I thought we could be good, but I

(56:41):
had no idea and losing your starting quarterback, it was
like a movie, man, and for us, for the Vets,
the way it like we kind of converged on Philly.
It was like Legarrett Blunt I signed, I start bothering him.
I'm like, because he was a guy liked in New England,
I'm like, let's go, dude. And Tory Smith, the guy
that played in the ACC with me, I knew to
a little bit him calling me, you know, Joe's bringing

(57:03):
me to Philly. We should all link up. And then
Patrick Robinson and it was the perfect emergence of veterans
and young players and leaders and guys that had been
there and guys that had won and guys that hadn't,
and we just had some special in that building. I mean,
for that year, it was like nobody could stop us.
There were better teams. But it's like that day we

(57:23):
beat the Vikings at the Link in the NFC Championship. Yeah,
I said at some point anybody could have gotten it
that night, and Philly people love hearing that, but I
really mean it.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
There are better teams than us.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
But I don't know on that night who was beating
us because we just had this this thing, and you
can't manufacture a thing. It either exists or it doesn't.
And it was the perfect storm. So you're an Eagle
yeah in my mind, Yeah, or a Saint Louis Ram.
You know, they don't exist. They don't exist.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
So how often do you say to Kyle three and zero?

Speaker 2 (57:59):
I like to rhy him a little bit.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
We just broke down the double Joint game the other
day on the pod, which he's become increasingly more level
headed about. Okay, but you know, for a guy that
I had to pull out of a fight with my
best friend William, like he was beating my friend up.
The only time he came to Saint Louis, he almost
got ejected after that game. I kind of didn't want

(58:20):
to see him in the tunnel because I thought he'd
be just dejected.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
I felt for him but three and oh, do you
just walk up to him and say three and oh?
That's what me and my buddy like. I I you know,
it's just played golf with a friend of mine. I
mean if I I just pounded him. We were playing
this little tournament and I pounded him six and five.
I beat him six and five, which means I beat

(58:44):
him up six with five holes left. I said to
him the rest of the day, probably eight hundred and
seventy three times six and five.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Ye you know it's funny because I would rib him,
but I'll so no. He's a little sensitive. He doesn't
like that shit.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
And he's also six six, three hundred pounds and he
could crush me. So Like sometimes we're sitting here doing
the podcast and I touch a little button, I'm like,
let me, let me take my hand off the button.
But I also know which buttons to push. And when
we were on the field, I was trying to drive
him crazy. He was talking about this the other day, like,
I'm a really nice guy, but when I get on

(59:23):
the field, I'm going to try to drive you nuts.
And especially if I think you're you're a little bit
you know, like you don't have it wound too tight,
which Kyle when he played, I feel like he was
a loose cannon.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
So we just we target him.

Speaker 1 (59:35):
We just I chirp him and chirp him, and then
he beat up my friend and almost get ejected or
but then when you get into tunnel, you're like, hey,
there's no referees here to stop him from mauling me.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
From killing somebody. I gotta relax. Yeah, I know, I
don't have much more time. I gotta mention. You're just
I mean, one, you really make me laugh, but two,
you're a generous as hell guy. You win and what
many on the inside consider the most prestigious award that
you can win in the NFL, including MVP, the Walter

(01:00:11):
Payton Man of the Year Award, you win it following
the twenty eighteen season. In the twenty seventeen season, you
played for free.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
I wasn't making that much now, Brian, But yeah, oh
I never thought about that. Yeah, think about it. You know,
at this point in my career, they're not paying me
as much. But yeah, I played for free. You know,
honestly it started for me. I remember being so on
the fence about playing, like every year as you get
older the more bs, especially if you win a Super Bowl,

(01:00:42):
You're like, you ask yourself because I got kids and
I'm at that point in my life, like why am
I here? Why do I continue to beat myself up?
Twenty eighteen, I was in line. This is before we
started four and six off the Super Bowl, and maybe
I wish I'd gotten out of line, but I remember
getting in line for physicals and I was like, just
fucking walk out. You don't want to be here, be

(01:01:04):
a man about it and walk out, you know, like,
don't do this thing that you're half in on. But
once I'm in, I'm in. And so I got to
the end of the line and I kept playing, and
I'm glad I did. But in twenty seventeen, I was
kind of like every year was like ah maybe, and
I thought, you know, I want to do something special.
I want to do something that's a lot bigger than
me and something to ensure that I'm dead serious about

(01:01:26):
coming to work every day because I didn't know where
my head was at. You know, when you're answering for
yourself at a certain point in life, you're just going
through the motions.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
You know, you're on a treadmill. That never ends.

Speaker 1 (01:01:37):
And it's the same thing with being a father or
you know, heading an organization or being responsible for the
people that work here at Greenlight, like you should do
something that's bigger than you. And for me, at that point,
I wanted to make the world a better place and
I still do. But I had a really big platform,
and I thought really hard about just not saying anything
about it and just give the money, because there's plenty

(01:01:58):
of people that had given that amount of money before
and didn't get a damn parade about it. But for me,
I just looked at it like my pride's going to
get in the way of maybe doubling this investment in
what I care about. I need to come out and
see if these fans will meet me halfway.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
And they did.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
They they doubled my investment in at equity and in
the scholarships we were doing, and it was like a
springboard for everything we've continued to do. So I mean,
like those two years, we raised a lot of money,
the whole thing. We gave a lot of effort in
that city and I fell in love with the city.
But getting the Man of the Year, I was almost
I'm not even lying to you, and these guys keep

(01:02:33):
referencing them, but they tell you it's not my most
proud thing, because I really don't think that's why you
do it. You know, Like I said this to Lane
Johnson the other day, who's like a little brother to me,
and I love the guy. He's just he's awesome, and
he got nominated for a Man of the Year, which
means he is one of the guys that's gonna be
up on that stage.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
You already won. You know, you did the work. You know,
the work is why you do it, and then you're.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Getting attention for the charity that you're trying to help
us well, which is is that's the reason that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:07):
If it's pragmatically going to help us awesome. You try
to do things for altruistic reasons, you know, you're not
trying to do it to get And that was the
one thing that made me kind of uncomfortable was, you know,
people looking at it and then also stand up on
stage with a bunch of guys who aren't gonna win.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Why am I better than Kyle Rudolph, Why am I
better in this guy? Why?

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
So the way I look at it, everybody that gets nominated.
Every year wins, you know, you do win because people
care about your stuff more. But the reason I really
won was getting a relationship that started with the Walter
Payton family. Like super cool to me to get to
know his family and his family's evidence of his greatness,
everything they've done to continue his legacy. And Jarrett, like

(01:03:47):
his son, been through the same things I've been through
with having great expectations. And he played in the league
for a while and we've got a cool friendship.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
This summer, he came to visit me in Montana because
I spend summer in Montana, up there near Clay and
he was like, we got to get together. I'm doing
this thing for Walter Payton Man of the Year. We'll
do some footage. What do you like to do outside.
I'm like, well, I like to hike, So we're going
to go on a hike. I forgot to tell him
how the altitude was there, but he made it halfway
up the mountain, but he came all the way up

(01:04:17):
to see me. And it's just I got a lifelong friend,
and I think I won for that, like having, you know,
having been on that stage with those guys.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
No matter if you want or loss. You're a winner,
and so for Lane, for any of these guys, it's
just great to be discussed. One, You're an incredible guy
and I really admire you. I've always admired you as
a football player.

Speaker 3 (01:04:38):
Now I can add making me laugh to the list,
which is I don't know, and you know to me
that it doesn't get much better than that as well.
And you're a good dude. You're crushing it in the
media that you're doing now, the iconic television show Inside
the NFL, you're now a part of that. You've got

(01:04:59):
the green Light podcast. Is it hard for you to
talk about you know, you're you're not you haven't been
gone that long, so you still have friends that are
in the league. Is hard? Is it hard for you
to talk about them or coaches?

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Yeah? Totally.

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Every time I get on the mic, I imagine I'm
pissing somebody off, and that's the reality of it. And
I've gotten better at just be you know, okay with it.
You know, I care what people think. So does anybody
that has one of these, right Like, it's so easy
to be like, I don't care what anybody thinks, right Like,
that's the pursuit, but like you have to have some
you know, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. Otherwise I

(01:05:35):
wouldn't be trying to do the best I very can
at it. For me, I just a responsibility that I
take seriously to get people the right information, you know.
And so whether it's today watching film for four hours
and sitting here getting ready for the previews, or Sunday
night I'm up till two in the morning, make sure
I've seen every game like I could mail it in. Yeah,
but I really do care what these people think. And

(01:05:57):
if somebody, by the off hand chance, here's what I
say about them, I better be right or fair or
frame it correctly. And I think my dad helped me
with that because growing up, his thing was like, I
don't I want to be fair. I don't question people's injuries.
I'm careful about questioning people's efforts. You don't attack people personally.
I'm sure I've fallen short at times because of the

(01:06:18):
casual nature of what we do. It's supposed to be
like guys just bullshitting on a couch, and I can
fall into that, but I try to be respectful because
I have been in that seat and there are guys
that made me feel a certain way when I heard
what they had to say about me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:32):
You know, Yeah, you're doing a fantastic job.

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
Thanks truly.

Speaker 3 (01:06:38):
On the podcast integrating sports and culture and entertainment, it's
a lot of fun to listen to, Truly, I wish
you all the best in that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:46):
Thanks Brian.

Speaker 3 (01:06:47):
And on inside the NFL. And I know you've got
yate House Media that you've started new production company and studio.
I can't wait to see what's coming out for you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
See, we've got some stuff cooking. But we'll see. Man.
I was trying to just trying to trying to make
sure the show's fun and I'm enjoying it.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
So yeah, well listen, what I hope is our paths
crossed here very soon. You'll be in Vegas here in February.

Speaker 2 (01:07:14):
You're gonna go to the game.

Speaker 3 (01:07:15):
I will be there. All right, let's get together, Yeah,
let's do. Maybe the Packers are in it. We'll find
a time. You think you think the way they look
the other night, but look that's all they did look really,
especially with the injuries they've had. Look, I know, I
we could do, we could talk forever.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
You gotta come up I'm gonna get you online one
of these days. I'll give you plenty of notice.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
Well, now that you talked about how I know what
I'm talking about, that's exactly that's gonna be on my
bio from here on out. Thanks Chris, Chris, thank you

(01:08:00):
so much for being here. I will see you in
Las Vegas in just a few weeks for the Super Bowl.
Great to have you on here. Guess what He'll always
be my first long listeners check out green Light on
the podcast app of your choice. Also, be sure to

(01:08:21):
watch Inside the NFL on the CW. I'm going to
be back next time with a wish, a real wish
that you have a great week off. The Beat is
hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our

(01:08:42):
executive producer Linglee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our
producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our
talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern is
Ali Amir Sahed. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak perform
by the one and Only creep Bread