November 16, 2021 • 37 mins
Tune in this week for part two of Brian’s conversation with the Nard Dog himself, Ed Helms. Ed tells Brian all about his real-life acapella experience, his weeks that started in Scranton and ended in Vegas - and then things get emotional as they start to reflect back on their time on The Office. Oh, and make sure to stick around for Brian’s huge announcement at the end of the episode.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Ed Helms and I played Andy Bernard on
the Office. All right, hello everybody, and welcome back. This
is the Office Deep Dive, and as always I'm your host,
Brian Baumgartner. And guess what that was my mouth? Today
(00:33):
is the day? Actually, today is actually the day for
a few things. But first up, I, oh my gosh,
I'm so excited to tell you that my new book
that I know I've been talking about for weeks now
is finally out. And how about that just in time
for the holidays. Who could have guessed that? So head
(00:57):
on over to Amazon or Barnes and Noble or Books
a Million, wherever it is that you get your books
and grab your very own copy of Welcome to dunder Mifflin.
And while you're at it, grab a copy for your mother,
your sister, all your friends, anyone in your contacts list.
(01:17):
You will not regret it all right now, I also
have another big announcement to tell you about at the
end of this episode, so make sure you stay tuned
after the interview and and find out what in the
world that could be. Trust me, it is good. And lastly,
what you all came here for, my very special guest,
(01:39):
that is returning for part two of our conversation the
Nord Dog himself, Ed Helms. Now, if you haven't already,
make sure you go and listen to part one, but
then come right back here, because I've been saving the
best for last. Yes, that's right, the last. I'm starting
(02:00):
to wrap up the interviews, which I know is very
bitter sweet. But the good news is, over the next
few weeks you're going to hear a few of my
very favorite episodes with some of my favorite guests, and
you also may hear some of yourself. But that being said,
today's interview truly is it is. It's one of my
(02:23):
favorites because you get to see Ed in a different way.
Right Ed is known for playing these kind of loud, bumbling,
I mean hilarious but maybe slightly obnoxious characters. Right but
Ed himself, he's just he is so not that. I mean,
(02:47):
he is hilarious and and he's a comedy nerd. We
talk about that. But today what you're going to get
to see is a very sweet, thoughtful side of Ed
because that's who he is, and I'm not gonna lie.
Things get a little emotional. So here he is the
(03:09):
incomparable Mr Ed helms Bubble and Squeak. I love it
Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie, every moment
left over from the NAB before you said you were
(03:39):
a comedy nerd. What what was it about the Office
when you started initially watching it that you felt like
you were seeing something different? What? What? What? What was that? Well?
I don't know why I didn't. I didn't even I
wasn't able to sort of understand what I liked about it.
But what I do think is kind of hilarious is
(04:01):
that all of the awkwardness and the tension that we
think is so funny our parents generation, especially as Southern parents,
like you know, repression is a very powerful force in
Southern families, and and that the awkwardness is is so intolerable.
And even on the Daily Show, especially with the field pieces,
(04:25):
the correspondent field pieces, it was all about finding extremely
tense moments, and you know, you read we would revel
in the awkwardness and try to foster awkwardness with people,
um because that tension is funny. Uh. And that that's
sort of my post mortem analysis. Like I didn't quite,
(04:47):
I didn't. I never understood that at the time and
I couldn't understand why, why why our parents generation didn't
think The Office was funny, Like, well, how do you
not get this? But I understand now that that um
because I think I've seen more extreme versions of it
that make me uncomfortable at times, and I can see like, oh,
it's just it's like calibrating, like what's right here. Well,
(05:10):
there's a number of fans who come up to me,
huge fan, I'm the biggest fan of the show. I
can't watch Scott's Taughts like Scott's Taughts somehow puts it
over the line. Dinner party is sort of like the
straddling the straddling of the line, but Scott's Taughts two
people are like no. And so I started to analyze, like, well,
(05:30):
why is that? And I think it's kind of what
you were talking about about the Daily Show, which was
most of the cringeing moments were happening to us, right
the office workers, ourselves, whereas Scott's Taughts suddenly was about
these kids and that that's rough. That's rough. Yeah, it's
(05:52):
fun to see, like if your heroes are low status,
the heroes of the show are lost datas, it's fun
to see them squirm. But when you see like regular
people squirm, and and that's on the Daily Show, you know,
we would try to make the bad guy squirm, right,
whoever the villain of a piece of a field piece was.
(06:14):
But I don't know why is that funny? Why is
squirming so funny? I mean, the most extreme versions were
all of Sasha Cohen's stuff, right, the borat and the
alg It's it's a powerful it's it's it's an incredible
mechanism for satire, but it is it can be polarizing
for sure. Um when well, let me ask you this,
(06:39):
had you done much physical comedy before the office? Did
you feel like that was something that you did? Well?
I did. I've done a lot of improv, which is
obviously a lot of um, you know, very broad physical
stuff on stage. And I you know, I started by
doing stand up in New York City, and I actually
knew John Krasinski from that. He started by going to
(07:03):
New York and kind of dipping his toe in the
stand up world. But we we were acquaintances back back then.
But that's just a funny side note. What was I
saying before? Oh, physical comedy? So in my stand up
I kind of fancied myself like I don't know, like
(07:24):
a sort of sand Luri or Brian Reagan, like a
perform like someone who acted out his my bits. And
so there was a lot of physicality there. And then
the Daily Show. I think part of what was fun
about that was being a very stuffy reporter but breaking
that mold and ridiculous ways sometimes physical And so I
(07:47):
don't write, oh, did you really sing Acapello at Oberlin? Um?
I did. There was a group called the Oberlin Overtones.
That there is, I should say a group called the
Oberlin Overtones, and I was in that group for or
one semester my freshman year. I don't know, maybe it
was my it was spring of my freshman year and
fall of my sophomore year and then and then I
(08:09):
didn't do it anymore. Was that a joke that you
pitched them on, Andy, or that was just going that? Yeah?
That was that? I think was something that you know,
there was a little bit of Harvard writers like using
Cornell as a punching bag, right, That's that's a little
bit of what was going on with Andy greg being
Harvard and Mike Shure and and a couple of others,
(08:32):
But I had no baggage with Cornell, but I still
just loved the I don't know, it seemed like a
fun thing to make fun of, and so the acapella
character trait was that just was he was endowed with
that in the writing process. And but it is something
that I understood implicitly and I got Acapella is it
(08:55):
is such an interesting art form because it is so
fun to do, but it is kind of excruciating to
watch or listen to. And I mean no disrespect to
acapella aficionados out there, I just because my own relationship
with it is complex. I have a love hate thing,
(09:17):
and I think especially in college acapella groups, there's a
strong association with kind of a a very clicky, smug
arrogant vibe. Right. It's almost like a like certain preppy
fraternities or something. And even though the Oberlin overtones were
actually not like that at all. There's really no part
of Oberlin that's preppy. And um, it's something that made
(09:40):
sense and it really informed Andy in lots of ways.
That the creation of Andy's profile was one of the
most thrilling creative endeavors of my life, because you know,
if it was the acapella thing. I would just start
singing on set at wrong times, and then the writers
would see that and be like, Oh, that's fun, and
(10:00):
then they'd write in more singing. And that's just one example.
There were so many little details that started to kind
of slot in, like a Tetris game about who Andy was,
and it was this feedback loop, and Mike Scher in
particular had a real shine for Andy, and we just
had so much fun. Like I would go to the
(10:21):
writer's room and just joke around with Mike about who
Andy is and what made us laugh about him. And
that was another thing that I think made the office
so special is that the collaboration between the writers and
the cast was next level, right. I Mean, there were
cast members that were writers to begin with, but then
I always felt like the writer's room was an open
(10:42):
door and that when the writers were on set, it
was always a conversation like what, like, how do we
have more fun with this character? Or what what can
we come up with? And everyone was open minded and
that it's that kind of best idea wins mentality that
leads to great stuff. Yeah, I agree with you a
(11:05):
thousand and Greg told me that He wanted that opened
up as a workshop for the writers, actually, because he
believed that the comedy in the show was so much
about behavior, and you can't write behavior and so well
(11:26):
in the beginning. You can't until you get to know
a character, right, But yeah, you're so right. There's a
famous episode of Friends in which they start making fun
of the way that Chandler talks, like the cadence of
his speech, and it's one. It's a favorite episode. It's
extremely funny, but it is it. It's something that could
(11:47):
not have been written in season one. It's something that
everyone started to understand implicitly, and it took a writer
being like, that's funny, Like that's a really specific annything
about Chandler, and if the other characters clock it, we
can write to it. But that's really cool to hear.
(12:07):
I didn't know that, But you're you're so right. I mean,
for Greg to be ahead of that. Writing always gets
better on a TV show as the writers learned the
behavior of characters. But to start with that ethos of
like we are behavior forward, that's awesome. Yeah, Greg's awesome,
that's awesome. Changing gears a little bit. Mike Sure talked
(12:48):
specifically about you during the writer's strike and coming out
to the picket line that was happening, and what a
different and that made for them as they were having
a difficult emotional time picketing their own show. Do you
recall anything about that? Yeah? Absolutely, Um, I just remember
(13:15):
everyone felt a lot of tension, like am I a
part of this fight or am I? You know, obviously
I support the writers, but I'm there's some it's scary
a little bit like it just felt so baffling, and
I think in hindsight, I've I really appreciate what how
courageous that was. And yeah, there were a bunch of
(13:38):
There were a bunch of picket lines. I remember going
to the first day was on our little lot up
in Van Nuys, right, it was just our writing staff
and um, they said they were confused about what where
they should go, and there were things about going to
Paramount or going to Universal. They thought, well, that's not
where we work. This is where we work, so they
(14:00):
went on their own there, right, And then over the
next Over the subsequent weeks, there were lots of demonstrations
at the studios, Like I remember going to Universal Studios.
There was a big one on the Avenue of the Stars,
like they took over the whole that whole block in
Century State, in Century City, the Giant March. But that
was a crazy, crazy time. Yeah, I remember. It was
(14:26):
all very confusing because ultimately the actors supported what the
writers were doing, and the writers were in a way
they were fighting the fight for all artists. Absolutely, But
at the same time, I remember talking to my representation
and going like, what you know, and they said, well,
(14:46):
you know, you have to show up, like you can't
not show up. And you know some of the writers
have talked about it was Steve not showing up and
apparent only he got calls from the network executives and lawyers,
and I was told, you have to show up, show
(15:08):
up to work, to work, not to the picking. Yeah,
to show up to work. And he just said, no,
you're gonna do How long the strike was three hundred days,
three months, a little over three months. Yeah, I it's
you know, since then, I've been in so many different
(15:32):
parts of this industry now on different sides of things,
and and you know, unions are complicated, but they are
so necessary. They're just the ultimate bulwark against exploitation. And
not to get political here, but it just like being
on the front lines of that, and and that there
(15:53):
were a handful of show runners that really led the
charge and took strong positions, and Greg was super inspirational
through all that. Greg's a soft spoken guy, but he
is tough, you know, like he's he's tough. He fights
(16:15):
for and stands by what he believes. And in the
case of the writer strike, that was about principle and
what was right or wrong. And yeah, it's good to
be on Greg's side. It's always good to be on
correct side. Um, do you remember your impression when you
(16:39):
heard Steve was leaving? I guess maybe more were you
afraid that the show couldn't survive or were you confident
that it could go forward? I think I felt pretty
confident that the show could morph into a different thing.
And I just had so much confidence and Greg and
(17:00):
in the writing staff, and there had been that there
were so many experiments that we all kind of went
through it narratively on the show that sometimes they worked
and sometimes it didn't, and if they didn't, you just
would kind of it would veer away from that thing.
And it seemed like there would be like if anybody
can do it, it's the Office writing staff, right, you know.
(17:24):
I mean that's not to diminish the unimaginably massive blow
that his departure is was, but I I think that
the show felt bigger than any one person at that point,
if that's if that makes sense, Yeah, it is, though
(17:45):
a credit to you. I mean, much like Steve with
forty year old Virgin. Part of the way into your
time on the Office, you became a giant movie star too,
what the hangover, And I think you deserve a lot
of credit for that, for not only staying around, but
(18:06):
being energized and continue to work on your character and
on the show with great integrity. Thanks. That's very very
kind of you. Um, I just love The Office. I
and I kind of never wanted it to end, and
I loved I think loving The Office really is about
(18:28):
just loving the people and loving that cast and crew,
and it's really feeling like a family and just wanting
to step up and deliver for everybody's sake all the time.
You know, shooting those movies was often exhausting because it
(18:51):
was concurrent with the Office. I don't think a lot
of people know or understand quite how crazy some of
that was. But I was shooting cross or of episodes,
meaning like I would do two days on the Office.
I was shooting the Office Monday and Tuesday, and then
the hangover Wednesday through Sunday. It's insane. I mean that
(19:11):
was crazy. And then a lot of that hangover stuff
was nighttime. So I just was like a zombie. Um.
But it was so fun and no one ever, I
never felt kind of judged or or slighted by anyone.
I felt fully supported, and I just I knew that
(19:31):
if I slipped or or didn't wasn't there for everybody else,
then I had no right to be doing going off
and doing these movies. I had to show up for
the Office and still be fully present. And and it
helped that that I that it's so fun. I mean,
(19:54):
I keep going back to that. It was just the
only way I could do that was because the hangover
was fun. But the Office was fun, and the Office
was the thing that I knew and I loved and
I knew I wanted to do right by the Office always. Yeah,
did you feel like it was the right time to
(20:19):
end after season nine? I think so? Um. I mean
at that point, I think my my disposition had shifted
a little bit. I was starting to look a bit
the bigger picture of my life and career and and
(20:40):
my personal goals, and I think, you know, candidly, there
were some ways that Andy There's just some storylines there
towards the end that that confused me a little bit,
and I wasn't as I just didn't feel like this
is the same thing I loved as much, if that
(21:01):
makes sense, Not the show, but just sort of what
in particular kind of some of what Andy was was
doing or going through, and um, I just there was
sort of a shift happening, I think in my life
and then my my emotional state at the time, and
so I felt it actually felt like a a reasonable
(21:22):
place to wrap up. I think in it it's hard
to remember how exactly how I felt, but it's been
a long time. I am trying to unpack, like why
(21:52):
is The Office the most watched show on television now
five years later? Like what what are the reasons? And
I think that there's a chance. I recently went back
and watched it the whole the whole series, and it
doesn't feel dated. And I started thinking like why, and
(22:13):
I the only answer that I can come up with
is a documentary can never feel dated because it's taking
a snapshot of what was actually happening. You don't look
at a documentary about the seventies and go, well, that's dated, right,
You're just looking at that time. And that also the
(22:34):
subject matter being an office that is not at the
forefront of fashion or technology, all those things. You know,
like a movie like Devilwaar's Product, which is so stylish
and it's an amazing movie, but it will you'll feel
when it was made because of all those cues. But
(22:56):
you take a world like under Mifflin and those people
and those props and those sets like there, those are
things that would not change in that space for twenty years,
right right, Like it would look the same over a
long period of time. Why do you think the show
(23:17):
We kind of talked about this, but why young people
have responded so much to the show given that it
has to do with basically middle aged office workers. Well,
you know, we can ask this question all the time
any talk show, whatever, it's the most common and or
dinner party wherever I am. I feel like people ask
(23:39):
me this all the time, and I'm like, I don't know,
ask the kids. They're the ones who love it, um so,
but it were left to just speculate and UM and
I have lots of theories, I'm sure like you do. UM.
I think the simplest version is the same reason that
I loved Saturday Night Live when I was a kid
(24:04):
and I wanted to be on it. That that was
like the thing that drove my entire life, was wanting
to be on Saturday Night Live as a as a
young person. And the reason I loved it so much
from such a young age. I started watching it when
I was eight. And what was so intoxicating to me?
Even though I didn't even get the jokes half the time,
(24:26):
they clearly we're having so much fun. There was something
you could tell Eddie Murphy was in the zone right,
And I just loved that and I that was something
that I sought my whole career and still do and
and I and I think the Office is one of
(24:47):
those rare places where a lot of the time that
whole cast is in the zone right. There's even even
when the scenes are small and there's and the performance
are small and the dialogue is intimate or whatever, it
felt it felt so fun and special to be there
(25:10):
and be a part of it. And at some level
that comes across right. There's some way that I think
audiences just clock that in the same way that I
did as a little kid watching Saturday Night Live, and
I I think that's a huge part of it. I
also think that there are some contextual things like it's
(25:30):
a fish bowl, it's a it's a bullpen. It's mundane,
it's gettable, it's understandable. It's like and the people in
that office go through so many things, but you never
question whether or not they're going to be there the
next day. You know, a question whether or not they
kind of love each other still. You know there's something,
(25:51):
there's something I think that makes people want to be
a part of that dunder Mifflin family when they watch it,
because it's it's just comfortable. As awkward as the dialogue
is and as as much tension as there was at
different times in the stories, there there's a sense of
belonging that everyone in that space had, and everyone had
(26:16):
a role, and it was predictable, and character's behavior was
predictable and understandable, and I just I think that's um.
It takes a long time for a show to get there,
and thank god the office had that breathing room to
find that. But when a show does, like Cheers or Taxi,
(26:36):
you just love to hang out with it and be
in that space. Yeah, what are you most thankful for?
Oh man, Um, it's yeah, it's so abstract, but it's like,
(26:58):
um m m um, the whole thing. Yeah, um yeah,
(27:27):
Uh that my last line that I said on the show. Um,
it really resonates, you know, it's like those were those
were good old days for sure. Yeah, it's crazy. I Um,
(27:51):
I don't remember how long ago it was now, but
I saw you post a photo of me and you
and John and Rain I think at a Golden Globes
we're all like in our Texas and you put that
quote and it's hard to describe or put yourself back there,
(28:17):
but it was just like it's just one of those
instantly like hits you in the chest in a way. Yeah.
They're just so few times in life when when you
just feel un burdened by a lot, and when there
(28:38):
are so many times during the office that I just
remember driving to work at five in the morning with
a cup of coffee so psyched, right, and that that
feeling of just being psyched to go to work, being
psyched to go to events with my cast mates, to
(29:02):
go hang out, get drinks with some writers, whatever. I
just was psyched a lot during that whole time. And
and that's an elusive thing in life. You know, life's complicated,
and there are ups and downs, and most of the
(29:22):
time we're kind of in the middle somewhere, and there's
things were psyched about, but there's things were we're burdened
by or scared of that are going on all the time.
And at that time, I just remember being psyched a lot,
you know, like a lot of the time, and hanging
out at base camp and our trailers, just playing tunes
(29:47):
with Creed or or just like hanging out with you
just whatever gossip was going on, whatever it was. It's
rare to feel like you're part of something special. And
but boys are awesome when you do have that feeling.
And that's I think what defined that whole time for me.
(30:11):
I just felt special. Yeah, well Ed, thank you so much,
Oh my god again and talking And I just appreciate
so much. Obviously, you and I have the longest history
anybody um on the show, and I you know, I
love you, and I just I so appreciate you coming
(30:32):
in and talking about it for a little bit. Oh man,
it's awesome. You yanked some heart strings here that I
wasn't expecting. But I I'm grateful for it. I love it,
and I love you too, and that's it. That is Ed.
(31:01):
And although on the day I didn't say to Ed
that he yanked my heart strings, uh, he did and
he always does. I remember when I called Ed about
sitting down with me, and Ed was working on another
project at the time. He was incredibly busy, and he didn't.
(31:22):
He not only said yes, when would you like me
to come in? But he said yes, when would you
like me to come in? And then we started talking stories.
At one point I had to say, no, Ed, stop, no, wait,
I want to I don't have this. I'm not recording
this right now, and I want to hear this spontaneously
as you're remembering it. So let's I love talking to you,
but I'm going to stop talking to you now because
(31:44):
I want to talk to you when I have a
camera or when I have a microphone in front of you. Um.
But his generosity, his heart, his spirit. Um. Well I
hope you saw it because it's true. So thank you
d for joining me and thank all of you for
(32:04):
listening to me, to me, to me, and ed uh,
thank you. And now for the second big announcement. All right. So,
as you know, I have been interviewing the cast and
crew of the Office, my Office family for the last
couple of years now, and let me tell you, I
(32:26):
never thought that I would be doing it this long, right.
My original intention was to do the oral history and
write the book and that's it. But sharing these interviews
with you has been truly the greatest joy of my life.
(32:47):
Letting you get to know these actors and writers and
makeup artists and stand ins and directors that that have
so much to give and so much to tell. Introducing
you to the people who have inspired me. That for
me is what it's all about. All right. So I
(33:09):
keep getting questions like, Brian, when can you bring this
guest on? Brian, when are you going to do this
for other shows? Well, guess what, baby, We're coming back
in two and it is going to be bigger and
and better than ever. We're gonna start at the top
(33:33):
of two with guest stars from the Office, people who
are on just a few episodes like the Will Ferrell's
and the Kathy Bates is Is and and then we're
going to expand and we're gonna start talking about some
of your other favorite shows. Think Modern Family, Think Cheers,
(33:53):
Think Fresh Prince of bel Air, because those shows, well,
they need love to So stay with me here, same time,
same place, same host, same feed, just more guests, and
I promise you this, you're gonna have a fantastic time,
because when I have a good time, you have a
(34:16):
good time. Now. As for the name, it's going to
be called Off the Beat. And here's the story behind that.
I had a a French director that I worked with
for many years, Dominique Surrand shout out and and he
taught me something that that comedy happens off the beat.
(34:40):
And that's exactly the kind of conversation that I'm going
to strive to have one that happens off of the beat,
about what happens off camera in the moments between the stories,
because that's the kind of stuff that I want to
know about. So starting next year, you're gonna hear a
(35:02):
new iteration of this podcast. Let's call it version two
point oh, because that's what everybody names things two point oh.
It'll be everything you loved about the Office Deep Dive
and so much more. But before the new year, I
want to hear from all of you. All right, I'm
gonna be doing a couple of very special call in
(35:22):
episodes where you get to guide the conversation. That's right,
I want to hear your stories. How has the Office
changed your life? Is there anything that you have been
dying to let me know? Do you have any spectacular
or spectacularly funny stories tied in with the show, or
(35:43):
run ins with the cast or anything. Really, sky's the limit.
I just want to hear what you have to say.
You know, when I'm out in public, I often have
people come up to me and tell me very, very
hilarious or moving stories about their experience with the show.
(36:04):
This is your opportunity to share those stories, not just
with me, but well with everyone. So the best way
to be featured on one of our call in episodes
is to use use the voice Memo app on your phone,
record your question or comment, and then email it to
us at the Office deep Dive at gmail dot com.
(36:28):
That is the Office deep Dive at gmail dot com.
Make sure to include your name, where you're from, and
then your question or comment, and don't forget to leave
your number two, because yes, I am going to call
a few of you back and have you on this show.
All right, that's it. I've announced just about everything there
(36:52):
is to announce. So with that, I will say goodbye,
thank you so much again for listening, and have a
great one everyone. The Office. Deep Dive is hosted and
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer
(37:17):
Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers
are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. My main man in
the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
performed by my great friend Cree Bratton, and the episode
was mixed by Seth Olandski
This is Ed Helms and I played Andy Bernard on
the Office. All right, hello everybody, and welcome back. This
is the Office Deep Dive, and as always I'm your host,
Brian Baumgartner. And guess what that was my mouth? Today
(00:33):
is the day? Actually, today is actually the day for
a few things. But first up, I, oh my gosh,
I'm so excited to tell you that my new book
that I know I've been talking about for weeks now
is finally out. And how about that just in time
for the holidays. Who could have guessed that? So head
(00:57):
on over to Amazon or Barnes and Noble or Books
a Million, wherever it is that you get your books
and grab your very own copy of Welcome to dunder Mifflin.
And while you're at it, grab a copy for your mother,
your sister, all your friends, anyone in your contacts list.
(01:17):
You will not regret it all right now, I also
have another big announcement to tell you about at the
end of this episode, so make sure you stay tuned
after the interview and and find out what in the
world that could be. Trust me, it is good. And lastly,
what you all came here for, my very special guest,
(01:39):
that is returning for part two of our conversation the
Nord Dog himself, Ed Helms. Now, if you haven't already,
make sure you go and listen to part one, but
then come right back here, because I've been saving the
best for last. Yes, that's right, the last. I'm starting
(02:00):
to wrap up the interviews, which I know is very
bitter sweet. But the good news is, over the next
few weeks you're going to hear a few of my
very favorite episodes with some of my favorite guests, and
you also may hear some of yourself. But that being said,
today's interview truly is it is. It's one of my
(02:23):
favorites because you get to see Ed in a different way.
Right Ed is known for playing these kind of loud, bumbling,
I mean hilarious but maybe slightly obnoxious characters. Right but
Ed himself, he's just he is so not that. I mean,
(02:47):
he is hilarious and and he's a comedy nerd. We
talk about that. But today what you're going to get
to see is a very sweet, thoughtful side of Ed
because that's who he is, and I'm not gonna lie.
Things get a little emotional. So here he is the
(03:09):
incomparable Mr Ed helms Bubble and Squeak. I love it
Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie, every moment
left over from the NAB before you said you were
(03:39):
a comedy nerd. What what was it about the Office
when you started initially watching it that you felt like
you were seeing something different? What? What? What? What was that? Well?
I don't know why I didn't. I didn't even I
wasn't able to sort of understand what I liked about it.
But what I do think is kind of hilarious is
(04:01):
that all of the awkwardness and the tension that we
think is so funny our parents generation, especially as Southern parents,
like you know, repression is a very powerful force in
Southern families, and and that the awkwardness is is so intolerable.
And even on the Daily Show, especially with the field pieces,
(04:25):
the correspondent field pieces, it was all about finding extremely
tense moments, and you know, you read we would revel
in the awkwardness and try to foster awkwardness with people,
um because that tension is funny. Uh. And that that's
sort of my post mortem analysis. Like I didn't quite,
(04:47):
I didn't. I never understood that at the time and
I couldn't understand why, why why our parents generation didn't
think The Office was funny, Like, well, how do you
not get this? But I understand now that that um
because I think I've seen more extreme versions of it
that make me uncomfortable at times, and I can see like, oh,
it's just it's like calibrating, like what's right here. Well,
(05:10):
there's a number of fans who come up to me,
huge fan, I'm the biggest fan of the show. I
can't watch Scott's Taughts like Scott's Taughts somehow puts it
over the line. Dinner party is sort of like the
straddling the straddling of the line, but Scott's Taughts two
people are like no. And so I started to analyze, like, well,
(05:30):
why is that? And I think it's kind of what
you were talking about about the Daily Show, which was
most of the cringeing moments were happening to us, right
the office workers, ourselves, whereas Scott's Taughts suddenly was about
these kids and that that's rough. That's rough. Yeah, it's
(05:52):
fun to see, like if your heroes are low status,
the heroes of the show are lost datas, it's fun
to see them squirm. But when you see like regular
people squirm, and and that's on the Daily Show, you know,
we would try to make the bad guy squirm, right,
whoever the villain of a piece of a field piece was.
(06:14):
But I don't know why is that funny? Why is
squirming so funny? I mean, the most extreme versions were
all of Sasha Cohen's stuff, right, the borat and the
alg It's it's a powerful it's it's it's an incredible
mechanism for satire, but it is it can be polarizing
for sure. Um when well, let me ask you this,
(06:39):
had you done much physical comedy before the office? Did
you feel like that was something that you did? Well?
I did. I've done a lot of improv, which is
obviously a lot of um, you know, very broad physical
stuff on stage. And I you know, I started by
doing stand up in New York City, and I actually
knew John Krasinski from that. He started by going to
(07:03):
New York and kind of dipping his toe in the
stand up world. But we we were acquaintances back back then.
But that's just a funny side note. What was I
saying before? Oh, physical comedy? So in my stand up
I kind of fancied myself like I don't know, like
(07:24):
a sort of sand Luri or Brian Reagan, like a
perform like someone who acted out his my bits. And
so there was a lot of physicality there. And then
the Daily Show. I think part of what was fun
about that was being a very stuffy reporter but breaking
that mold and ridiculous ways sometimes physical And so I
(07:47):
don't write, oh, did you really sing Acapello at Oberlin? Um?
I did. There was a group called the Oberlin Overtones.
That there is, I should say a group called the
Oberlin Overtones, and I was in that group for or
one semester my freshman year. I don't know, maybe it
was my it was spring of my freshman year and
fall of my sophomore year and then and then I
(08:09):
didn't do it anymore. Was that a joke that you
pitched them on, Andy, or that was just going that? Yeah?
That was that? I think was something that you know,
there was a little bit of Harvard writers like using
Cornell as a punching bag, right, That's that's a little
bit of what was going on with Andy greg being
Harvard and Mike Shure and and a couple of others,
(08:32):
But I had no baggage with Cornell, but I still
just loved the I don't know, it seemed like a
fun thing to make fun of, and so the acapella
character trait was that just was he was endowed with
that in the writing process. And but it is something
that I understood implicitly and I got Acapella is it
(08:55):
is such an interesting art form because it is so
fun to do, but it is kind of excruciating to
watch or listen to. And I mean no disrespect to
acapella aficionados out there, I just because my own relationship
with it is complex. I have a love hate thing,
(09:17):
and I think especially in college acapella groups, there's a
strong association with kind of a a very clicky, smug
arrogant vibe. Right. It's almost like a like certain preppy
fraternities or something. And even though the Oberlin overtones were
actually not like that at all. There's really no part
of Oberlin that's preppy. And um, it's something that made
(09:40):
sense and it really informed Andy in lots of ways.
That the creation of Andy's profile was one of the
most thrilling creative endeavors of my life, because you know,
if it was the acapella thing. I would just start
singing on set at wrong times, and then the writers
would see that and be like, Oh, that's fun, and
(10:00):
then they'd write in more singing. And that's just one example.
There were so many little details that started to kind
of slot in, like a Tetris game about who Andy was,
and it was this feedback loop, and Mike Scher in
particular had a real shine for Andy, and we just
had so much fun. Like I would go to the
(10:21):
writer's room and just joke around with Mike about who
Andy is and what made us laugh about him. And
that was another thing that I think made the office
so special is that the collaboration between the writers and
the cast was next level, right. I Mean, there were
cast members that were writers to begin with, but then
I always felt like the writer's room was an open
(10:42):
door and that when the writers were on set, it
was always a conversation like what, like, how do we
have more fun with this character? Or what what can
we come up with? And everyone was open minded and
that it's that kind of best idea wins mentality that
leads to great stuff. Yeah, I agree with you a
(11:05):
thousand and Greg told me that He wanted that opened
up as a workshop for the writers, actually, because he
believed that the comedy in the show was so much
about behavior, and you can't write behavior and so well
(11:26):
in the beginning. You can't until you get to know
a character, right, But yeah, you're so right. There's a
famous episode of Friends in which they start making fun
of the way that Chandler talks, like the cadence of
his speech, and it's one. It's a favorite episode. It's
extremely funny, but it is it. It's something that could
(11:47):
not have been written in season one. It's something that
everyone started to understand implicitly, and it took a writer
being like, that's funny, Like that's a really specific annything
about Chandler, and if the other characters clock it, we
can write to it. But that's really cool to hear.
(12:07):
I didn't know that, But you're you're so right. I mean,
for Greg to be ahead of that. Writing always gets
better on a TV show as the writers learned the
behavior of characters. But to start with that ethos of
like we are behavior forward, that's awesome. Yeah, Greg's awesome,
that's awesome. Changing gears a little bit. Mike Sure talked
(12:48):
specifically about you during the writer's strike and coming out
to the picket line that was happening, and what a
different and that made for them as they were having
a difficult emotional time picketing their own show. Do you
recall anything about that? Yeah? Absolutely, Um, I just remember
(13:15):
everyone felt a lot of tension, like am I a
part of this fight or am I? You know, obviously
I support the writers, but I'm there's some it's scary
a little bit like it just felt so baffling, and
I think in hindsight, I've I really appreciate what how
courageous that was. And yeah, there were a bunch of
(13:38):
There were a bunch of picket lines. I remember going
to the first day was on our little lot up
in Van Nuys, right, it was just our writing staff
and um, they said they were confused about what where
they should go, and there were things about going to
Paramount or going to Universal. They thought, well, that's not
where we work. This is where we work, so they
(14:00):
went on their own there, right, And then over the
next Over the subsequent weeks, there were lots of demonstrations
at the studios, Like I remember going to Universal Studios.
There was a big one on the Avenue of the Stars,
like they took over the whole that whole block in
Century State, in Century City, the Giant March. But that
was a crazy, crazy time. Yeah, I remember. It was
(14:26):
all very confusing because ultimately the actors supported what the
writers were doing, and the writers were in a way
they were fighting the fight for all artists. Absolutely, But
at the same time, I remember talking to my representation
and going like, what you know, and they said, well,
(14:46):
you know, you have to show up, like you can't
not show up. And you know some of the writers
have talked about it was Steve not showing up and
apparent only he got calls from the network executives and lawyers,
and I was told, you have to show up, show
(15:08):
up to work, to work, not to the picking. Yeah,
to show up to work. And he just said, no,
you're gonna do How long the strike was three hundred days,
three months, a little over three months. Yeah, I it's
you know, since then, I've been in so many different
(15:32):
parts of this industry now on different sides of things,
and and you know, unions are complicated, but they are
so necessary. They're just the ultimate bulwark against exploitation. And
not to get political here, but it just like being
on the front lines of that, and and that there
(15:53):
were a handful of show runners that really led the
charge and took strong positions, and Greg was super inspirational
through all that. Greg's a soft spoken guy, but he
is tough, you know, like he's he's tough. He fights
(16:15):
for and stands by what he believes. And in the
case of the writer strike, that was about principle and
what was right or wrong. And yeah, it's good to
be on Greg's side. It's always good to be on
correct side. Um, do you remember your impression when you
(16:39):
heard Steve was leaving? I guess maybe more were you
afraid that the show couldn't survive or were you confident
that it could go forward? I think I felt pretty
confident that the show could morph into a different thing.
And I just had so much confidence and Greg and
(17:00):
in the writing staff, and there had been that there
were so many experiments that we all kind of went
through it narratively on the show that sometimes they worked
and sometimes it didn't, and if they didn't, you just
would kind of it would veer away from that thing.
And it seemed like there would be like if anybody
can do it, it's the Office writing staff, right, you know.
(17:24):
I mean that's not to diminish the unimaginably massive blow
that his departure is was, but I I think that
the show felt bigger than any one person at that point,
if that's if that makes sense, Yeah, it is, though
(17:45):
a credit to you. I mean, much like Steve with
forty year old Virgin. Part of the way into your
time on the Office, you became a giant movie star too,
what the hangover, And I think you deserve a lot
of credit for that, for not only staying around, but
(18:06):
being energized and continue to work on your character and
on the show with great integrity. Thanks. That's very very
kind of you. Um, I just love The Office. I
and I kind of never wanted it to end, and
I loved I think loving The Office really is about
(18:28):
just loving the people and loving that cast and crew,
and it's really feeling like a family and just wanting
to step up and deliver for everybody's sake all the time.
You know, shooting those movies was often exhausting because it
(18:51):
was concurrent with the Office. I don't think a lot
of people know or understand quite how crazy some of
that was. But I was shooting cross or of episodes,
meaning like I would do two days on the Office.
I was shooting the Office Monday and Tuesday, and then
the hangover Wednesday through Sunday. It's insane. I mean that
(19:11):
was crazy. And then a lot of that hangover stuff
was nighttime. So I just was like a zombie. Um.
But it was so fun and no one ever, I
never felt kind of judged or or slighted by anyone.
I felt fully supported, and I just I knew that
(19:31):
if I slipped or or didn't wasn't there for everybody else,
then I had no right to be doing going off
and doing these movies. I had to show up for
the Office and still be fully present. And and it
helped that that I that it's so fun. I mean,
(19:54):
I keep going back to that. It was just the
only way I could do that was because the hangover
was fun. But the Office was fun, and the Office
was the thing that I knew and I loved and
I knew I wanted to do right by the Office always. Yeah,
did you feel like it was the right time to
(20:19):
end after season nine? I think so? Um. I mean
at that point, I think my my disposition had shifted
a little bit. I was starting to look a bit
the bigger picture of my life and career and and
(20:40):
my personal goals, and I think, you know, candidly, there
were some ways that Andy There's just some storylines there
towards the end that that confused me a little bit,
and I wasn't as I just didn't feel like this
is the same thing I loved as much, if that
(21:01):
makes sense, Not the show, but just sort of what
in particular kind of some of what Andy was was
doing or going through, and um, I just there was
sort of a shift happening, I think in my life
and then my my emotional state at the time, and
so I felt it actually felt like a a reasonable
(21:22):
place to wrap up. I think in it it's hard
to remember how exactly how I felt, but it's been
a long time. I am trying to unpack, like why
(21:52):
is The Office the most watched show on television now
five years later? Like what what are the reasons? And
I think that there's a chance. I recently went back
and watched it the whole the whole series, and it
doesn't feel dated. And I started thinking like why, and
(22:13):
I the only answer that I can come up with
is a documentary can never feel dated because it's taking
a snapshot of what was actually happening. You don't look
at a documentary about the seventies and go, well, that's dated, right,
You're just looking at that time. And that also the
(22:34):
subject matter being an office that is not at the
forefront of fashion or technology, all those things. You know,
like a movie like Devilwaar's Product, which is so stylish
and it's an amazing movie, but it will you'll feel
when it was made because of all those cues. But
(22:56):
you take a world like under Mifflin and those people
and those props and those sets like there, those are
things that would not change in that space for twenty years,
right right, Like it would look the same over a
long period of time. Why do you think the show
(23:17):
We kind of talked about this, but why young people
have responded so much to the show given that it
has to do with basically middle aged office workers. Well,
you know, we can ask this question all the time
any talk show, whatever, it's the most common and or
dinner party wherever I am. I feel like people ask
(23:39):
me this all the time, and I'm like, I don't know,
ask the kids. They're the ones who love it, um so,
but it were left to just speculate and UM and
I have lots of theories, I'm sure like you do. UM.
I think the simplest version is the same reason that
I loved Saturday Night Live when I was a kid
(24:04):
and I wanted to be on it. That that was
like the thing that drove my entire life, was wanting
to be on Saturday Night Live as a as a
young person. And the reason I loved it so much
from such a young age. I started watching it when
I was eight. And what was so intoxicating to me?
Even though I didn't even get the jokes half the time,
(24:26):
they clearly we're having so much fun. There was something
you could tell Eddie Murphy was in the zone right,
And I just loved that and I that was something
that I sought my whole career and still do and
and I and I think the Office is one of
(24:47):
those rare places where a lot of the time that
whole cast is in the zone right. There's even even
when the scenes are small and there's and the performance
are small and the dialogue is intimate or whatever, it
felt it felt so fun and special to be there
(25:10):
and be a part of it. And at some level
that comes across right. There's some way that I think
audiences just clock that in the same way that I
did as a little kid watching Saturday Night Live, and
I I think that's a huge part of it. I
also think that there are some contextual things like it's
(25:30):
a fish bowl, it's a it's a bullpen. It's mundane,
it's gettable, it's understandable. It's like and the people in
that office go through so many things, but you never
question whether or not they're going to be there the
next day. You know, a question whether or not they
kind of love each other still. You know there's something,
(25:51):
there's something I think that makes people want to be
a part of that dunder Mifflin family when they watch it,
because it's it's just comfortable. As awkward as the dialogue
is and as as much tension as there was at
different times in the stories, there there's a sense of
belonging that everyone in that space had, and everyone had
(26:16):
a role, and it was predictable, and character's behavior was
predictable and understandable, and I just I think that's um.
It takes a long time for a show to get there,
and thank god the office had that breathing room to
find that. But when a show does, like Cheers or Taxi,
(26:36):
you just love to hang out with it and be
in that space. Yeah, what are you most thankful for?
Oh man, Um, it's yeah, it's so abstract, but it's like,
(26:58):
um m m um, the whole thing. Yeah, um yeah,
(27:27):
Uh that my last line that I said on the show. Um,
it really resonates, you know, it's like those were those
were good old days for sure. Yeah, it's crazy. I Um,
(27:51):
I don't remember how long ago it was now, but
I saw you post a photo of me and you
and John and Rain I think at a Golden Globes
we're all like in our Texas and you put that
quote and it's hard to describe or put yourself back there,
(28:17):
but it was just like it's just one of those
instantly like hits you in the chest in a way. Yeah.
They're just so few times in life when when you
just feel un burdened by a lot, and when there
(28:38):
are so many times during the office that I just
remember driving to work at five in the morning with
a cup of coffee so psyched, right, and that that
feeling of just being psyched to go to work, being
psyched to go to events with my cast mates, to
(29:02):
go hang out, get drinks with some writers, whatever. I
just was psyched a lot during that whole time. And
and that's an elusive thing in life. You know, life's complicated,
and there are ups and downs, and most of the
(29:22):
time we're kind of in the middle somewhere, and there's
things were psyched about, but there's things were we're burdened
by or scared of that are going on all the time.
And at that time, I just remember being psyched a lot,
you know, like a lot of the time, and hanging
out at base camp and our trailers, just playing tunes
(29:47):
with Creed or or just like hanging out with you
just whatever gossip was going on, whatever it was. It's
rare to feel like you're part of something special. And
but boys are awesome when you do have that feeling.
And that's I think what defined that whole time for me.
(30:11):
I just felt special. Yeah, well Ed, thank you so much,
Oh my god again and talking And I just appreciate
so much. Obviously, you and I have the longest history
anybody um on the show, and I you know, I
love you, and I just I so appreciate you coming
(30:32):
in and talking about it for a little bit. Oh man,
it's awesome. You yanked some heart strings here that I
wasn't expecting. But I I'm grateful for it. I love it,
and I love you too, and that's it. That is Ed.
(31:01):
And although on the day I didn't say to Ed
that he yanked my heart strings, uh, he did and
he always does. I remember when I called Ed about
sitting down with me, and Ed was working on another
project at the time. He was incredibly busy, and he didn't.
(31:22):
He not only said yes, when would you like me
to come in? But he said yes, when would you
like me to come in? And then we started talking stories.
At one point I had to say, no, Ed, stop, no, wait,
I want to I don't have this. I'm not recording
this right now, and I want to hear this spontaneously
as you're remembering it. So let's I love talking to you,
but I'm going to stop talking to you now because
(31:44):
I want to talk to you when I have a
camera or when I have a microphone in front of you. Um.
But his generosity, his heart, his spirit. Um. Well I
hope you saw it because it's true. So thank you
d for joining me and thank all of you for
(32:04):
listening to me, to me, to me, and ed uh,
thank you. And now for the second big announcement. All right. So,
as you know, I have been interviewing the cast and
crew of the Office, my Office family for the last
couple of years now, and let me tell you, I
(32:26):
never thought that I would be doing it this long, right.
My original intention was to do the oral history and
write the book and that's it. But sharing these interviews
with you has been truly the greatest joy of my life.
(32:47):
Letting you get to know these actors and writers and
makeup artists and stand ins and directors that that have
so much to give and so much to tell. Introducing
you to the people who have inspired me. That for
me is what it's all about. All right. So I
(33:09):
keep getting questions like, Brian, when can you bring this
guest on? Brian, when are you going to do this
for other shows? Well, guess what, baby, We're coming back
in two and it is going to be bigger and
and better than ever. We're gonna start at the top
(33:33):
of two with guest stars from the Office, people who
are on just a few episodes like the Will Ferrell's
and the Kathy Bates is Is and and then we're
going to expand and we're gonna start talking about some
of your other favorite shows. Think Modern Family, Think Cheers,
(33:53):
Think Fresh Prince of bel Air, because those shows, well,
they need love to So stay with me here, same time,
same place, same host, same feed, just more guests, and
I promise you this, you're gonna have a fantastic time,
because when I have a good time, you have a
(34:16):
good time. Now. As for the name, it's going to
be called Off the Beat. And here's the story behind that.
I had a a French director that I worked with
for many years, Dominique Surrand shout out and and he
taught me something that that comedy happens off the beat.
(34:40):
And that's exactly the kind of conversation that I'm going
to strive to have one that happens off of the beat,
about what happens off camera in the moments between the stories,
because that's the kind of stuff that I want to
know about. So starting next year, you're gonna hear a
(35:02):
new iteration of this podcast. Let's call it version two
point oh, because that's what everybody names things two point oh.
It'll be everything you loved about the Office Deep Dive
and so much more. But before the new year, I
want to hear from all of you. All right, I'm
gonna be doing a couple of very special call in
(35:22):
episodes where you get to guide the conversation. That's right,
I want to hear your stories. How has the Office
changed your life? Is there anything that you have been
dying to let me know? Do you have any spectacular
or spectacularly funny stories tied in with the show, or
(35:43):
run ins with the cast or anything. Really, sky's the limit.
I just want to hear what you have to say.
You know, when I'm out in public, I often have
people come up to me and tell me very, very
hilarious or moving stories about their experience with the show.
(36:04):
This is your opportunity to share those stories, not just
with me, but well with everyone. So the best way
to be featured on one of our call in episodes
is to use use the voice Memo app on your phone,
record your question or comment, and then email it to
us at the Office deep Dive at gmail dot com.
(36:28):
That is the Office deep Dive at gmail dot com.
Make sure to include your name, where you're from, and
then your question or comment, and don't forget to leave
your number two, because yes, I am going to call
a few of you back and have you on this show.
All right, that's it. I've announced just about everything there
(36:52):
is to announce. So with that, I will say goodbye,
thank you so much again for listening, and have a
great one everyone. The Office. Deep Dive is hosted and
executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer
(37:17):
Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer. Our producers
are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. My main man in
the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
performed by my great friend Cree Bratton, and the episode
was mixed by Seth Olandski
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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