April 2, 2024 • 56 mins
Brian sits down with Bachelor-turned-business guru Jason Tartick. Jason talks about the business side of reality television, how to balance love and checkbooks in his new book “Talk Money to Me”, and challenges Brian to consider his own relationship to financial transparency.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Did you fall in love with Becca Kufrian?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yeah, and TV Land I was falling in love with Becca.
But then you because when you're doing it, Brian, you
don't get your phone, no TV, no Internet, you can't
talk to your family, you can't talk to friends, you
don't hear music, and you're sequestered. Oh, you're sequestered. So like,
the only woman that I saw in like three months
and then a producer or two was her, So like,
(00:23):
you're and she's great, she's amazing, But I thinking, like.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All the producers are married, all the producer women is
the requirement you have to be married, so you can
only see one single woman over the course of three months. Yeah,
(00:54):
welcome back everybody. This is Off the Beat and I
am your host, Brian bomb Partner, my guest today is
a super successful business owner. He is a podcast host,
he is an author, but he is probably best known
for his dating life. That's right, Bachelor Nation, Rise up
wherever you are, because today I am speaking with Jason Tartig.
(01:19):
He was a rising star in corporate banking in Seattle.
He was plucked from obscurity and into the glorious world
of reality dating television. He appeared on season fourteen of
The Bachelorette with Beca, But sadly, he did not find
true love. We'll discuss that today, I promise. But despite
(01:42):
his nationally broadcast heartbreak, he has bounced back to become
a successful entrepreneur in the investing and financial education world.
He is the host of the podcast Trading Secrets, which
is all about financial transparency. He's also the author of
the new book Talk Money to Me, which is all
about having the hard conversations about money in your relationships.
(02:06):
That book is out this week, so we're going to
dive into all of that. How he ruined his mom's
bachelor addiction by going on the show, the pitfalls of
being a Buffalo Bill's fan, and stars who call the
paparazzi on themselves. I promise that is not me, but
it does happen. This is a fun one. He's handsome,
(02:28):
he's successful. Here he is the extremely eligible Jason Tardick,
Burble and Squeak. I love it Burble and Squeak. No
Burble and Squeaker cook at every month lift over from
(02:49):
the nine before. What's up, Jason, Ryan, How you doing
by man? I mean, you know, I could I could
tell you exactly, but it doesn't matter, like nobody truly nobody.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, i'll tell you what you know you. I don't
know if you remember this, Brian, but you and I
were playing at the celebrity Sweat Flag Football together game
in the Super Bowl and you were you were killing
it then, so I'm sure you're killing it now.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Well, listen, I do remember that. That was all I
know about that game is everyone got hurt. And here's
the thing about me. I got hurt in warm ups
and you know who didn't say anything me. I didn't
say a damn thing. I just took it. I just
(03:42):
took See. Here's the thing, RGI three in warm ups.
I don't even know what he's like. You know, he's
like saying, hey, take do this out come in do
that he throws at seventy five miles an hour. Okay, fine,
I catch it. Let's be clear. Totally jam my thumb,
I mean like jammed it, like it was inside out
(04:04):
on my hand, pulsing. And you know what, I didn't
say anything. Everybody else says, I mean he he falls
on his mic pack and breaks his ribs and punctures
is lung. He complains, I don't complain.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
You know, you're just a warrior. And I will tell
you this, that's the biggest misconception behind NFL quarterbacks. It
is the freaking speed at which they throw that ball.
It's like catching the baseball. It's nuts. But you know what,
did you play a snap that day or did you
just act like like, nah, you know, I'll sit one
out for the team.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
No. I played. I played a few snaps, uh, and
then I ended up. UH. They were like, hey, can
you go up and talk to uh? You know our
men and women in military, they're listening on radio. They're like, hey,
can you go say hi in the booth? I was
like absolutely, are you kidding? Absolutely, I'll be better served
up there. I don't know. It was like forty five
(04:58):
minutes later. Am I this entire game? Like I thought
I was saying hi in the booth? I go through
seven or eight commercial breaks and I'm still I'm like, guys,
I think my team needs me down there. I don't know,
but anyway, it was, it was. It was a really
good time. I know you're a Big Bills guy. Talk
(05:22):
about somebody who fires the ball.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Oh yeah, Huge Bills guy Josh Allen fires that ball.
He was flowing around the Super Bowl a little bit.
It was, you know, good to see him out having
a good time. But yeah, I've been a born and
raised Buffalo Bill's fan, fortunately and unfortunately for thirty five years.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Now. Have you have you have you gotten to note
Josh a little bit?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah? You know, the first time I actually ever came
across Josh was in two thousand. Shoot, I think it
was twenty twenty one is Super Bowl and he's like, yo,
come over here, and he was waving at me, Brian,
and I looked behind me. I'm like, he can't be
waving at me, and he was waving at me, and
I was like, oh god. So I went over hung
(06:05):
out with him, and he said that he had watched
a little bit of The Bachelor, so he knew of
my past. And I'm like, this is unbelievable. I was
drinking beers with Josh Allen at the Barstool party and
that was like, that was like my pinnacle in life
right there.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Well, I was going to say, if you were hanging
out with him at a super Bowl, it wasn't because
he was playing.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Oh Brian's drop of bombs on me.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
No, I'm just saying, I mean, we have, many of
us have expected it. Now for a while I did,
uh well, I thought this last year was going to
be their year. But he is just a super nice guy,
obviously incredibly talented and always very very kind when when
(06:53):
we run into each other, normally on a golf course.
I'll be honest. But yeah, so you grew up in Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, yeah, So I was born and raised in Buffalo,
played hockey, soccer, lacrosse there, and then I ended up
going into I went to D three school outside Buffalo,
New York, and I kind of was like the corporate
bank or soldier, like tell me where to go and
how to go. And I moved from New York to
Seattle and it was then at twenty nine, I got
(07:22):
this random call to go on the Bachelorette of all things,
and that was kind of my step into this whole
crazy world of entertainment and media about six years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Okay, now hold on a second. You just went through
so much so fast. Here, let's break this down for
a second. Okay, So, first off, I was just in
Buffalo for the first time. Uh Is that right? Yeah?
I think that's right. First time I was in Rochester
in Buffalo this last year, fantastic place.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well watch you there.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well I did something in Rochester and then I had
something in Toronto, and I was told, uh yeah, that
it was close. So I decided to drive. Although I
will say when the people said, oh you just drive,
(08:12):
that seemed very easy. No one would give me a
car like no one would. No one would allow me
to rent a car and drive it into Canada and
then leave it in Canada. So I ended up this
day Made of the Mist. I don't know, holds a
special sentimental thing in my past, but I had never
(08:33):
been on it myself. Uh, so I went on the
Maid of the Mist. So I drove all the way
to Canada, did the Maid of the Mist, and then
drove back to Buffalo to get a car to take
me literally right over the bridge where I just was
to go into Canada. So that have you been on
the Maid of the Mist?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Oh yeah, Well I lived in Rochester for a few years,
so that drive everybody's talking about. You're talking like four
and a half hours, So I don't know who sent
you that direction. But then you go to Niagara Falls,
and the best part about Niagara Falls there's this old story.
I don't know if it's even true that the mafia
owns the American side and so they have held out,
apparently on doing anything. I don't know if it's true,
(09:16):
but if you look at the Canadian side, it's like
a mini little Disneyland over there. They got Ferris Wheels
and casuos and restaurants, and there's nothing on the on
the American side. But I did the Maid and the
miss with with like my thing is my high school
sweetheart or one of my exes, so it too has
a sentimental place in my heart.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Run there you go, and now you went. You went
to college, and you went to and you got a
master's in business right at University of Rochester. You were
just now, why did you want to get into business?
Early on?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I mean I started off as a as a history major,
So if that tells you anything, I was just a
lost kid in freshman year.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
The one thing, the one thing that always intrigued me
was my my grandfather was a hustler. Like he had
he had like poker games underground at his house and
he owned a small grocery store. And then my dad
was always into businesses. And I started like lemonade stands
when I was like six, trying to sell the most
expensive lemonade. So I was always intrigued with with the
(10:19):
the idea of business. But the biggest thing to me, Brian,
was I feel like in my life I got you know,
here and there I was lied to, Like I feel
like stories in this world shift and context change. What
I loved about numbers is that they don't lie, like
they tell the truth. And so I was always attracted
to numbers from an early ag job.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Interesting and then why why Seattle and you were in
You were in full on corporate banking, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I was full corporate banking, full steam. And to me, Brian,
it was like at this time, I was just like
the yes man, like tell me where to go, and
I'll go. So I took that whole mentality of like
I will be early, I will stay late, I will
exceed expectations. And I kind of lived the like entirety
of my life through my twenties through my job title.
(11:10):
And so when they offered me an opportunity to move
to Seattle, I took it. Now I have a podcast
called Trading Secrets, and so what we do on Trading
Secrets I'd love to have yacht at some point. We
have you know, different celebrities and public figures talk about,
you know, where they made money, how much they made like,
you know, whether it was Gronkowski, a Rod or one
of the Real House of New York, Like what do
(11:30):
you pay per episode? What'd you get paid on that
brand deal? Where'd you lose money? Because I've always been
intrigued with that. So I'm very open about money for
your listeners when they hear me talk about it. And
I liked, I think healthy conversations about money can like
really help us as we're all trying to navigate in
the world that we weren't taught this shit. So but
I was twenty nine years old. I got offered this job.
It was twenty seventeen, and it was one hundred and
(11:53):
sixty five base, one hundred and ten signing bonus, and
I could make up to like three times my base
based on performance. So I didn't know one person Seattle,
but I was like, I'll take in that deal. Let's
go pack my bags and moved across the country.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So I don't know. I mean, you brought up the mafia,
and you brought up being like very transparent about money.
I think maybe what you're going to learn about me
today is I'm I might be connected. Oh I don't know.
I don't ever. I don't ever talk about my money.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Oh you're one of those guys. So like if you
if you were asked, if you were asked just that curious.
You don't have to answer. It's your podcast, not mine.
Would you be comfortable talking about like what you made
on your episodic basis and how you negotiate and when
you made like the big payday or does that make
you like super uncomfortable?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah? No, no, Yeah, I don't know. I don't I mean,
I don't you know. I had two hobbies that took
a long long time, golf and and and poker, so
I had I felt like I had to give up
one for for life choices and and fail family sanity.
So I gave up poker. But yeah, no, that used
(13:04):
to be. At the like local game that we had
in La was people would start talking about how much
money I had on the table, and I would say that,
don't talk about my money, talk about my money. Just
concern yourself with yours and me taking it. I don't
worry about my money.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I love that. Now we had our podcast, we had
Daniel ran on and hed a little bit about some
of those underground games. We also had Molly Bluemon who
right is from Molly's Game? Yes, I mean there's some
crazy shit that happens in those underground games.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Brian, Yeah, yeah, well those are not that's that's what
that was above. That's that's that's above, my pig rade.
I will I will fully admit I have not been
in Molly's Game.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I would would you ever admit the most amount of
money at a poker table that's been in your stack?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
No? No, I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. I mean maybe
if we were having a beer and we weren't. Yeah,
but no, I do not, probably not. I don't know.
That's fascinating to me. Well, here's people just want to
talk to you about this on. I mean, this is
a self, this is a cell right now about your
(14:16):
Trading Secrets podcast. I mean, I'm definitely gonna listen to
that now. I mean I was ready to plug it
and check it out, but now kidding me, Well, here.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Let me ask you this though, because I love these conversations.
You don't have to answer any of them. But like,
when you think about why you don't like talking about it,
there is something behaviorally, and it could be good, it
could be bad. It could be protection, it could be stigma, bragging,
weaponizing what people think. Like, what do you think the
real reason is when you hear like me asking you
(14:46):
about your stack or what you made on an episodic basis, Like,
why does that make you uncomfortable? What is it?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You know, it's funny. I just made a joke. Who
did I just make a joke? Oh yeah, I was
hosting this thing with a profeon golfer and I started
ribbing him. Uh because you know, of course the purses
for professional golf tournaments are public, so I know exactly
to the scent how much money he made on a
(15:13):
particular weekend. Right, I think it's I don't know, maybe
it's maybe it's my southern upbringing or something, and I
that sounds like a hedge or something. I think it's
uncouth to talk about money. Yeah, yeah, I mean in
terms of myself, I'm I'm totally happy and I'm totally
happy to discuss discuss things in general. But yeah, I mean, right,
(15:37):
doesn't that make it just about you? And what you're
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I think I think it's the exercise of like trying
to analyze where is the situation where coming and talking
about money is stopped at in your tracks, and then
understanding why because I'm guessing, but just stay based on
this conversation, I do feel if I asked you certain
jobs you had before things went really well, or like
(16:05):
maybe your toughest time trying to make it in that
space when like you couldn't even maybe afford your next meal,
what was that like? Or someone like the tough times.
Some people get really comfortable talking about that, but it's
like when they talk about the successes, it comes off
they feel like braggadocious. But what I think is cool
is that through each person's story, especially someone like you
(16:27):
who's had such cool successes, through your story, there's a
lot of people out there that are really really struggling
but have the dreams and aspiration to be you. And
it could be hearing your success and what you did
in your times of disarray financially that keeps them focused,
that keeps them motivated. So I think if we do
it in a healthy, like non weaponizing way, we could
actually like motivate inspire and learn a lot. That's kind
(16:49):
of my thesis. And I think that if we don't
talk about it, we're actually just like hurting ourselves as
consumers and employees and business owners and just like our
over all financial health.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That's very interesting, and I think on a I think
in a utopian from a in a utopian space, I
hear what you're saying, but let's be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeahs it.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I'm speaking of truly, like just in general, if
you're a quarterback in the National Football League and all
those contracts are public, and you see a contract that
you of someone who you believe you are better than,
it becomes about getting one more dollar than that person.
And what is that like? I will say this, I
(17:38):
feel like I feel like for myself, I am at
least proud of and at times maybe under sell myself.
But I feel like I am able very often to
analyze the situation and determine, based on whatever that particular
(17:58):
market is, determine what I should be compensated. And I
think the thing that's unique about what I know is
unique about me and my perspective on that is in
this world, it's about the negotiation, and you have lawyers
(18:19):
who are UH who depend upon that negotiation UH to
for their survival right, which of course ends up eating
up a bunch of money. I say an amount of
money and that's it, and there's.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
There's no negotiation that amount of money.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well no, but it's but it's not. It's not in
an adversarial way. It's a I've I have preanalyzed your side,
and I have determined that this is the right amount
of money, and it's and I'm not over selling it,
which to me makes things much simpler. And and it
doesn't matter to me what anyone else is making or
(19:02):
where I'm making in regard to anybody else. I have
analyzed the situation. I believe this is the amount, and
this is the amount.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Interesting, I do think that is unconventional. I think it's
a talent and skill set you have that most people don't.
But I think if we look at like anything, and
I love this conversation, by the way, if we look
at like anything in America, everything that is that we
do based on our willingness to pay the price of
a stock, what we are paid, what we pay for gas.
(19:32):
Obviously there's uncontrollables, but a lot of it is all
based on your simple theory of economics, like willing to
pay based on supply and demand, and then people fluctually. Right,
we know restaurant prices are up twenty five percent last
four years. We know that child daycare is up forty
one percent in the last two years, so we know
that prices changed based on economic conditions but also people's
(19:53):
willingness to pay. So I think the idea of like
the arbitrary of analyzing yourself and naming your numbers very specific,
very unique. I feel like I want you to write
a book on it because I want to read it.
And I'll even go back to your quarterback statement, like
I would actually disagree with your quarterback statement. And I
think the people that have utilized the fact that they
(20:13):
understand that they are underpaid but there's a greater long
term play are the ones that are making more money
than anyone. Now. Classic example, right, Tom Brady took a
paid cut so that his team could be completely stacked.
He won the Super Bowls that he did. And I
guarantee you Tom Braid is making a minimum I would
(20:33):
say a minimum of three x what he's making now
than he was playing. And I know some of this
is just even the small little bit of it is
like even Gronk Brock has come on my show and
talked about it. He's making way more money now than
he did playing. So I think people that could eat
or maybe even yourself, right, maybe if you were paid less,
but you knew that your involvement in the show would
(20:55):
be more. Your brand, your longevity if your brand is
even greater. So I don't know. It's just fun conversation.
But the one thing I'll say, and then we could
pause this or we could go into a different direction,
is with the book, is talk money to me? We
know that having conversations with loved ones or our significant
other about money statistically prove it puts us in a
(21:16):
better position to succeed. And I could bore you with
eight thousand stats, but that one we know for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I do want to dive into your store. You're in Seattle,
you're working as a money manager. Tell me how did
you get on the Bachelorette?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, so I got well, I did this thing. So
Guilda's club. Gilda Radner, famous comedian. She died abruptly of
ovarian cancer. So they created this non for profit called
Guild this club and they did this Bachelor auction where
they recruited thirty guys to come on and raise money
for the non for profit. And that night I came
out to old time rock and roll. Everyone's wearing like tuxedos,
(22:12):
and I was like, I gotta win this thing. So
I start stripping, I started taking everything off. I start
going nuts, and I raised the most money of the
thirty bachelors. So there was a video from that night
that was sent to ABC of me, and you know,
there's three thousand people in the audience and two people
(22:33):
got submitted from that night to The Bachelor, one being
my best friend. So you're not gonna believe this. Eight
months goes by after that auction. I don't even live
in New York. I get a call, Hey, are you single?
And do you still live in New York? So no,
I'm single. We live in Seattle, and they tell me
they're from The Bachelor. That day, my best buddy calls me.
(22:54):
He's like, you're not gonna believe what happened. I said,
you're not gonna believe what happened. And we went through
the casting process from this batchl auction eight nine months before.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That's unbelievable. What so, But somebody else sent it and
then they contacted you to see if you were interested
in doing it correct, Why did you want to do it?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That's the golden question. My parents were ready to kill me, but.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I would have too, by the way, But anyway, continue.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
They're like, what the hell you're doing? My mom has
watched the show since day one. She's like, literally, she oh,
she watched. She knows everything. She knows everything. So Brian,
she tells me, my only escape from you, your brother
and your father is this damn show. You're not getting involved?
And here I am. Years later, so touched it, but
(23:46):
I ended up going because I found I kind of
told you a little earlier, but I was just chasing
so much career, career, career. I kind of lost myself
and I just had no I was just like, what
am I doing with my life? I'm so focused on
my job. Even the way I talk and dress, it's
literally connected to my title. And so I said in
(24:07):
ABC's calling to go on a show, and I'm just
like kid born in this small town. I'm a greasy
banker and they want me to go, Like, hell, yeah,
I'm going. Why would I not go, so I.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
And the experience positive for you. Did you fall in love?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Did you fall in love? Over the course of nine
weeks on the Bachelorette? Did you fall in love?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I feel like Bride's judging me so hard this podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
We're getting into it. When the first we talked money,
Now we're going to talk about this, you fall in
love with Becca.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I'm going to answer your question before I do. I
promise i'll answer it before I do. I want to
tell you about the because I think it's a poker player.
You'd be impressed with this. To get the bank to
allow me to go on the show, I went back
and watched the previous seasons. I then asked producers information
so I had an idea of numbers. So on average,
(25:14):
there's thirty people from the cast that go on the show.
After night one, on average, one third of them are
gone after night two filming. They say it's two weeks,
but it's really only three days. After week two, roughly
like forty percent are gone, and after a month only
four people are left. So I use this like mathematical
breakdown of my likelihood of when I would return back
(25:36):
to work in the percentage, and it was like an
eighty seven point nine percent chance I'd be back and
work in four weeks. And that's how the company actually
let me use vacation time and go on a reality show.
So I thought, as a poker guy, you would like that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well, so okay, so you have.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
What my boss thought, and he's like, you gotta be
shitting me. And then it went to the VP, and
then it went all the way to the president of
the entire bank, who's looking at this breakdown of how
many people from the Bachelor get certain roses and how
many weeks and give the kid us his vacation.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
There you know what I thought you were going to say,
which this would have been perfect, This would have been smarter,
but this would have gotten you on quicker. You tell
them go through and analyze how much money those people
have or how much they will have after the show,
and say, look, I'm not going on to find love.
(26:27):
I'm going on because I'm going to manage all of
their money when they're done. I'm going to make them
like me and then then then I can manage their money.
You didn't think about that one.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Do you own a consulting business, Brian, Because I'm ready
to hire you today. That's good, all right, I'll get
back to your question. I won't.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So they Yeah, did you fall in love?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
How many?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
How many? So nine weeks was not nine weeks or
nine episodes.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
No, so so in the early section they have to
do it fast because when they do like hometowns and
actually fly to your home or you fly international, it
takes longer. So the whole filming process was about actually
three months, but most of the cast is eliminated in
the first four or five weeks, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So you were there three months?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, we got we got to go to Buffalo from
my hometowns. I didn't do the Maid of the Myss,
but we got to go.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I should have done the Miss Ship. Did you fall
in love with Becca Koufrian?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah? And TV Land I was falling in love with Becca.
But then you because when you're doing it, Brent, you
don't get your phone, no TV, no Internet, you can't
talk to your family, you can't talk to friends, you
don't hear music, and you're sequestered. Oh, you're sequestered. So
like the only woman that I saw in like three
months other than a producer or two, was her. So
(27:44):
like you're and she's great, she's amazing. But I think
in like.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
All the producers are married, all the producer women. It's
the requirement. You have to be married, so you can
only see one single woman over the course of three months. Well,
I mean, you know, you have your home town thing.
You see some other Yeah, but it's some old gal
friends there.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Oh no, no, no, no, you're in. You're in. Like
when you go to hometowns, you're in your hotel. You
can go to dinner with the producer. You go back
to your hotel, and you're only coming out for filming,
so you're not like going to meet up with buddies
and stuff. You're you're in their world. So in TV land,
actually you fell in love in TV land?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, what is that? Okay? I understand what you mean
in TV land, but like, but you your heart, you
fell in love.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
At the time during that moment when I said it,
I felt it to the core.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Okay, you felt it to the core.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Two weeks after I like got like, whoa, You're out
of this like hypnosis state of TV Land. I was like,
what the hell did I just do? Like what was that?
How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right? So yeah, right, like you, you're like I. And
then because here's the thing. If you if like if
you say to someone that you love them and you
want to marry them in real life and it and
something goes awry, like they choose your best friend, Like
they choose your best friend instead of you, This could
(29:11):
be a This could be debilitating for years, right am
I not crazy about that? Like if you're like essentially
left at the altar, I want to propose to you
and you're like, no, I like your best friend more,
this would be debilitating, right, like in real in real
non TV life.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I mean, don't you tell me what's worse? Brian, So
I came in third, right right, and but one of
my very very good friends that season still to this day,
he came in second. So he proposed and she said
no and went to the other guy. I actually I
have been you know, I've been on this journey for
three months. I'm going through it. I'm through the ringer
(29:50):
and then I get to the fantasy suitet dates. So
it's like, okay, here we go. You know, that's it's
fantasy sueet dates and at dinner right for a fantasy
sweet night. I got dumped that fantasy sweet night. So
you tell me what's worked. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, but that would be demilitating. But
what you're saying is is that a couple of weeks later,
you you know you're good. I mean, you're okay.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I think.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
The reality is what's crazy about this show is you
actually you watch it all back. So you film for
a few months and then you watch it all back.
So then you're seeing this girl that you fell in
love with with all these other guys. You're like, oh wow,
her connection is way better with them, and the now
here's the curveball of all curve balls, because you know,
(30:37):
my story gets even a little more interesting where yeah ahead,
if you're into that one. Well, the thing is is
you think about the person. And this is when I
have so much sympathy for the people that actually end
up together. These two are engaged, they're in this like hiatus,
they're living their best life, and then they have to
(30:57):
go watch back every episode and this person that they're
engaged with and now planning their whole life with them
moving in is like literally like hooking up and falling
in love with all these people, and you have to
see it on TV Wow America like picks them as
a fan favorite. How hard is that got to be?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Oh, yeah, that's tough. That's oh I didn't think about that.
That in a way is worse than like any And
I'm not talking about hook I'm not talking about anything
totally untoward. But that's worse than like bad behavior at
a bachelor party, right, I mean, this is like you're
actually watching real feelings play out between two people right
(31:41):
on the doorstep of your engagement. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I mean I haven't been there. When I've talked to
those people that have been through it, and they're like,
it's brutal because you're also you're watching everything. You're watching
them fall in love, You're watching them interact with the
other family, You're watching them interact with your family. You're
watching that person pick out a potential ring. So it's
like all these things and people say, you know, the
Bachelor franchise has struggled with having successful relationships, which it has,
(32:07):
but they attribute it to all different things. I think
the number one reason is because you have to watch
all this back and so much resentment is built, and
then you're you're thrown into this world of like media,
which you've never seen, and it's just like the spin
of it all creates mayhem.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Well, okay, maybe, but isn't it also.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Like what do you mean? Maybe? What do you well?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Isn't it also like, I mean, there's a there's a
fantastic movie called The Truman Show, which is I mean,
it's not exactly the same, but you are essentially choosing
a pool of people that producers have chosen who they
believe will make good television for people to watch. For
(32:55):
this person to you know, potentially be with. Right, I mean,
you're not going You're not going into a bar, yeah,
or a or a you know, restaurant or whatever with
three hundred people and going all right, I'm gonna choose
those twelve.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Right, No, Yeah, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Fair So fascinating. Have you been approached to go back again?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I have. The last time I was ever approached was
to go on Paradise like twenty eighteen, and then I
signed a contract to be the bacher, but they went
with a different guy. So I have not that approach
to do anything from a cast perspective since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
So so you signed? So is this is this like
my line of work? You sign a contract and then
they choose from a couple of people. Is that what happens.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yep, that's what happens. Yeah, my god, what they do
in your world too?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yes? Are you serious? Yeah, well you know that's big.
You know about money, that's why that is yeah, they yes,
but you are negotiating with three people, three people, right,
three people at the same time. That's usually what it
is in my world. Three people. So that you signed
three contracts to be on a show, and then they
(34:10):
have the they can execute it exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
The difference is, you guys are getting paid a whole
lot of money. We're all getting paid the exact same
and it's not that much money.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And so I actually, well, the leverage point you're all
all of yours is the same contract.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
The leverage point is like they might know exactly who
they're gonna have no matter what, and then they bring
in three people, and the leverage point is the person
that is their number one will not negotiate anything, not
even just thought about anything, because they know if they do,
the number two, three person will be slotted. So it
puts you in a position where you really can't negotiate
at all. But what I almost did, which connects to
(34:49):
the example earlier. I almost revert. I wish they wouldn't
have picked me anyway, but I almost reverse negotiated where
I was gonna say, pay me nothing to do it,
I'll actually do it for free because the the actual
present value of that role is so much, so much
greater than the actual dollar amount you're provided to do it.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Oh yes, love, sweep love. Oh but oh maybe I
can't who That's the promo right there.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
No one in twenty twenty four, and I mean, nobody
in twenty twenty four goes on reality TV without an angle.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Nobody, nobody goes on without an angle.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No in twenty twenty four, not one, not one.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Okay, you ended up having a relationship, and see, look
I don't talk about relationships with very many of my guests,
but it seems really important. You got together with another
former bachelorette, Caitlin Bristow for a long period of time.
Now was this something that this happened naturally? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So this was very organic. This was not like this
was not filmed. No, we were out. It's just like
Truman show broke through the walls and then he met someone.
So we weren't in the Truman Show.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Thank you for going to thank you for going with
my analogy there so okay, and then and then that
that also did not work out for other other reasons.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, So we were together for you know, we met
after so they decided to go with the other bats Or.
She has a podcast which does very well. I went
out our podcast. She asked me, like, what's what now?
You know what happens now, what's your life gonna look like?
We actually met that day, started dating thereafter, and we
were together for about four and a half years. In
(36:38):
the last summer that that didn't work out, So here
we are.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
My question really is about having so much of your
personal life play out and you know, I mean we
have fun. I have fun, hopefully you have fun. It
is a part of it, right, It's what you just
talked about going on reality TV. There there's an angle,
and so part of that is it feels like you
have to let your personal life play out in public.
(37:26):
Right Is that is that? Is that? Is that? Right? Yeah?
For better or worse, Not that you love it all
the time, but that's a part of it, right.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's it's for I would say, the way it is
is it's for better at very high level and like
very highs and for better and very worse at very
deep worse like it's it's very extremes of showcasing your
personal life, uh to everyone. But I remember the first
couple of weeks, I was just trying to understand it all,
and I was so worried about like an edit and
(37:54):
things like this, and a producer said it best to me.
They said, listen, when you sign up for this, what
you're doing is you're getting out a roller coaster. And
when you get on a roller coaster, you have one option.
You strap in and you enjoy it, or you shrap
in and you're miserable. But no matter what you do
in that roller coaster, there's gonna be that turn, there's
gonna be the scare of going up, there's gonna be
the crazy fall. It's gonna happen. So while you're on
(38:16):
this show, you're on a roller coaster. And what I
recognize is even after the show now with social media,
it's the same roller coaster. But you don't think about it. Brian,
You you have a skill. You are a very skilled human.
You are funny, You are an actor. You've worked on
your trait. You've built this community reality TV stars. For
the most part, our only superpower is opening up our
(38:40):
personal life. So those who try to fight it are
those who try to over edit themselves or those who
try to put on something else. The truth all we
surfaces and it won't work, it won't last. There's zero
longevity for doing so. So it's almost like you have
no other choice should you step into this world.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
So, in other words, if you step into this role,
you say no, then you're then then you shouldn't have
even stepped in to begin with, because you're you're done. Yeah,
is that what you're saying? I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
People that say no, two things happen. Either they get
cut out from the show because they make terrible TV
because they won't open up and there's no purpose for them.
Or they say no with the idea of I am
going to be something I'm not. And the problem is
this world is too transparent and the truth always right,
bodies always float to the surface, like truth always surfaces,
Like eventually they end up getting their stuff, like it
(39:30):
will like blow up on them, you know, Like someone
will have a girlfriend then go on the show and
act like they're single. And falling in love and then
what do you know, like that gets exposed and all
of a sudden everything blows up. So it's either know
wing they go away or knowing it blows up.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, it's interesting to me. I mean, you know, I
got married and I found out at the reception that
I needed to comment to a magazine that will not
be named about my wedding that's just happened. And I said, well,
that's none o their business. Of course, no comment, And
(40:04):
my publicist was kneeling next to me and said, well,
if you don't comment, it's coming out anyway, because they
were there and we had people hanging from the trees
outside of my house taking pictures of various guests that
were in my own home that came there, and then
forced me on that day to answer to their whim.
(40:27):
I'm not getting I'm not selling pictures, I'm not getting paid.
But now I've subjected my guests, many of which who
are famous, to that I won't ever speak to that
publication anymore. Same publication came to me after the birth
of my first daughter, and I said, no comment, and
they said, well, we know the story, like we know already,
(40:48):
And I said you know, not to them specifically, but
I said fuck you, and I on my Instagram you
can see to this day that announcement by me with
all the details that I could think that they could
possibly know about the birth of my first daughter, because
I wasn't going to give that to them. So what
I'm saying is is that I work in such a
(41:08):
different way that for me, like the idea of that
and you having that all of the time just must
be incredibly difficult. And as you say, there are highs,
there are highs that I'm sure are are fantastic, but
I just, yeah, it's it's really it's a it's a
(41:30):
it's a difficulty that I struggle with all of the
time because I chose to be an actor and I chose,
I guess to be in film and television and understand
what comes along with that. But I think there's a
line for me, There's there's a line. And you know,
I don't know if I say that, I feel badly
(41:53):
for you. I feel bad that those things have to
play out in the press.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, And I mean, you know you were you were
extremely light with it, right, Like there are some discussions
you have when you're doing a new project or something
like Brett, you know that my book, that's the world I'm promoting.
But like, there are some places you go to promote
your book and it's it's not like how is your
relationship you break up? It's everything you can possibly think
(42:21):
of in the darkest way, people asking, And so I
think the way I've I've approached it is listen, especially
people from the Bachelor franchise, you can do really really
cool things with the platform that we're given because of
the show. And there's a handful of people that have
done unbelievably exceptional things. But it's almost impossible. It's almost
(42:42):
impossible to remove and or completely eliminate Bachelor being from
your resume or spoken about when you're doing things. And
it's a challenge. But do you wish that it was
in a perfect world? Yeah, in a perfect world, yes,
And I think that's what people try to do. They
try to build their brands, but the reality is is
(43:04):
that it never will and actually being attached to it
helps a lot too. So it's one of these things.
It's like it's a give and take, it's a love hate.
It just is what it is, and it's something you
just can't escape and reality TV is just so. And
the things that come from reality TV, the monetization of
brands after reality TV, the business side of reality TV,
(43:25):
it is so much different, right of course, as you
know then, like the business of a famous actor comedian
like yourself. Because what's crazy and I know this because
I own a talent agency now is what a lot
of the time propels people's brand for it in the
reality unscripted space, what's the gasoline to the fire. A
(43:45):
lot of it is making sure that they're at your wedding,
making sure you're talking about these things, these things you
hide from unfortunately, and unscripted space. I don't want to
speak for everybody, for a lot it's actually what fuels it.
So it's like pick your poison if you still want
to be in the game. And it's a crazy space,
it's freaking nuts.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
But yeah, you know, I'm not I'm not gonna mention
the name, but I it's so funny. I tell the
story to friends all the time. This was the first
time I realized to what degree this this was happening.
And this is a number of this is a number
of years ago. This is when more like you know,
the quote unquote paparazzi was bigger and getting, you know,
getting photographed here or there out, you know, in supposed
(44:28):
private moments. And I was in an airport. I was
flying from New York to LA and I had the
two people on the plane with me. We were walking
through the airport of JFK and they're like stumbling like
with their bags. They're carrying a lot of bags with them,
and this guy kind of comes out of the shadows,
(44:49):
it seems to me, and like comes out and uh,
the woman that I'm referring to, like hands him one
of her carry on and like her jacket and her
pillow for the plane and all the stuff. And they
are walking together, and suddenly I realized, oh, this is
(45:10):
a paparazzi. I mean talking about fueling your own and
setting this. I mean this literally, they have told this
person that they know that they're going to be walking
through the New York airport. And then sure enough, because
I consciously went the next day and looked, there were
the photographs, the supposed like private, secretive paparazzi photographs in
(45:32):
JFK that he was actually carrying their bags. I mean,
it was just that's and this a number of years ago.
I'm older and jaded now, but like at the time,
I was like, oh, this is how it works, Like
this is all a scam somehow when they catch me,
it's totally by accident. But these people like have set
(45:53):
it up, no wonder, they look much better than I do.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
That is so funny you just said that, because especially
in the reality space, like I would say ninety percent
of all paparazzi reality TV is set up. The other
thing that's set up is people will get brands to
take so they'll wear the brand when they're super hot
off the show, and they'll plan when the paparazzi's going
to capture them in the brand so that that brand
(46:17):
ends up in a magazine and therefore they actually get
paid for it. And I know people in the batch
or space that have called like TMZ TMZ on them
and some of them don't even admit it. But I
got so flustered the other day because I went to
I was doing this deal with Capital One cafe. I
was going to speak at their cafe, and someone from
TMZ came up to me asking about a rumor they
(46:39):
heard of a relationship. And I was so flustered. I
was so caught off dark, I was so rattled, and
I was so pissed because now everyone knows. Everyone knows
or at least things into space like you called them,
and I'm like, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Call it some mess.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
I was like sweating, and I know a TMZ guy
texted and I said, bro, what the hell? Like I thought,
we were like, you couldn't give me a tip? And
he goes, He goes, dude, I would have been there.
I would have tipped you off. I didn't know about it,
and so it just happened two weeks ago, and I
had literally no idea. But most people literally call it
(47:15):
on themselves.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yeah, I've never done it. I've never called them myself.
We talked about Trading Secrets podcast after this conversation here
is you have a new subscriber for sure for me.
But I really want to talk about your new book.
I love the title talk Money to Me. Did you
(47:37):
ever consider talk money to me baby? Did you ever
think about that?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Well, it's a little play on talk dirty to me
that you know.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
The Yeah, I was trying to eight essential financial questions
to discuss with your partner. What's the biggest, most important
financial question that you should always talk money to your
partner about.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Well, the thing is this is that we know right
now that money arguments is second leading reason for divorce.
We know that seventy three percent of couples say that
money creates material tension in the relationship, and of those
seventy three percent, over half of them attributed to decreased
intimacy from money. So the biggest topic here in the
(48:24):
question they ask, like, what's the number one question? The
biggest thing we need to do is stop hiding, stop shaming,
stop weaponizing. If you're not comfortable, like we talked about
here today, Brian talking it to the million people that
listen to your podcast, I get it. But to the
person that you absolutely love, the person that contractually financially
you're connected to, we know we have to start talking.
(48:46):
So the step one is like, let's start have the conversations,
and then step two would be, you know these eight
numbers that identify as the most essential to talk about
with your significant other.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Is there one one of those questions that you feel
like is the most important.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
If I had to say the number one, I would
say it's understanding what is your net worth? And how
can we go over our networth on a quarterly or
bi weekly or annual basis. And the reason I say
networth is because net worth is everyone thinks, google networth,
how much is it? But no, everyone has a networth.
(49:23):
Everyone that's listening does. And all it does is it
gives you a direct snapshot of everything, of your debt,
of the money that's spent, of the money that comes
in and through your net worth, you can't hide things.
And we know in forty three percent of couples there's
one person forty three percent of the time that's committing
financial infidelity, which is like hiding money or hiding purchases
(49:46):
that are a material amount. So the net worth captures
everything and it allows you, guys to be on the
same page with how it's moving up, down, left or right.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Do you think you need to disclose to your partner
every time you go to Starbucks?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
No, Okay, perfect, that's not a material thing.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
What I'm talking about, Brian, is like I but I
interviewed people that had financial fraud right, and I got
hundreds and I actually got over a thousand emails, And
I ask people, tell me about a financial fraud story
in your life, your loved ones and like one of
the examples is a woman gets married to this guy.
She went by Jane Doe. She want to be anonymous.
They're married for a year after they met. He has
(50:26):
good income with a bad credit, That's what he tells her.
She has great credit, Okay income. She takes out the mortgage.
She agrees that he will venmo her half of the
amount for the house. They agree to it, no contracts.
They close on the house the day they close. The
irs owns her house because he has hundreds of thousands
of dollars in back taxes. She never knew about it.
(50:48):
He never told her. And these things happen all the time.
So I'm not talking about the Starbucks run. I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Stuff like that. Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Or did you see Tinder Swindler there's Netflix. Yeah, yeah,
we did a follow up with one of the girls.
She got swindled. The whole world knows this guy's a
scumbag and took advantage of them. She got swindled in
fifty four days. The systems allowed her to take over
two hundred thousand dollars in debt and she was making
only only sixty thousand dollars a year. Still to this
(51:16):
day she is liable zero forgiveness. She's had to claim bankruptcy.
So even in situations like that where the whole world
knows the truth and that you were taking advantage of,
at the end of the day, you're accountable for your decisions.
And if you don't talk about it and you don't
know about it, you could be leaving yourself susceptible.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
How is he out like?
Speaker 2 (51:34):
How well, what he did was like the mechanics.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
It was a gift or something, and so.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Well he got right. What he did was he convinced
the people. He found certain personality types. So if you're
listening to this and you have a personality type in
which you could be taking advantage of, or you're a
people plaser, you are susceptible to be taking advantage of.
But he would find those personality types. He would convince
them through manipulation to open credit cards. He would and
then convince them through manipulation to give him the number.
(52:03):
He would run everything up and then they were liable
because he never signed for it. He never initiated they did.
He just convinced it to do them. So all the
debt that he put on their cards they're still liable for.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
Well, it makes a whole lot of sense to me
that you need to have these open conversations. And I
think that you know, whether it's monthly or bi annually
or you know, as you said, every few months, have
a scheduled conversation where you're talking about And I like
(52:35):
what you said too, because it's not how much money
you're making, but if it's true net worth, then yeah,
all of your debt, credit card, mortgage, you know, all
of that stuff is all sort of laid out on
the table. So that and it's not about I mean,
I assume you would say it's not about saying, oh
we're in trouble or oh dear God. But it's just like,
(52:56):
let's just look at it and make sure that we're
all on the same page, and if they're things that
we wanted you differently, we can right.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Yeah, it's exactly like it's a little saying network is
not your self worth. But it's just like let's have
visibility to it and work as a unit on it
and see it as a unit because we know that
like all the metrics that define success in relationship, like
you know, even sex drive, even breakups, like everything is
connected when your money is like managed as a unit
(53:23):
as opposed to different directions. So that's that's the overall thought.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Talk money to me, baby, that's that's I need that
on my book. No, it's talk money to Me. Jason.
Thank you so much, and you know what, listen, thank
you for being open to this conversation. I mean we
talked about things that I may not have been totally
(53:49):
comfortable with it. We also talked about things that you
weren't comfortable with. I think it's the start of a
great relationship.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
I think so too. I'm looking forward to it. If
you guys are listening to this, go DM Brian and
tell them to come on Training Secrets and Brian, let's
have you on man. Let's talk money by.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Trading secrets available as we say, wherever you get your
podcasts and also the new book Talk Money to Me. Jason,
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Brian, you're the man. Thank you so much for having
me and whether it's poker or beer whatever, I look
forward to hopefully connected soon.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Absolutely, Thanks ma'am.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
All right, take care.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Jason. Wow, you really made me think about some things
that I have not been historically all that open about
I'm not sure I'm going to start sharing my personal
life and finances all over, but I am certainly thinking
about them. Thank you so much for accepting this podcast invitation.
I don't have roses for you, but you can come
(55:00):
back anytime. Jason's new book Talk Money to Me is
hitting bookshelves as we speak, and his podcast Trading Secrets
is available wherever you listen to podcasts. I know I'm
going to be turning in check those out today. Come
back here next week for more of well, more of me.
Until then, have a good week. Off the Beat is
(55:30):
hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our
executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia.
Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr.
Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern
is Ali Amir Sahi. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
(55:52):
performed by the one and only Creed Bratton,
Did you fall in love with Becca Kufrian?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Yeah, and TV Land I was falling in love with Becca.
But then you because when you're doing it, Brian, you
don't get your phone, no TV, no Internet, you can't
talk to your family, you can't talk to friends, you
don't hear music, and you're sequestered. Oh, you're sequestered. So like,
the only woman that I saw in like three months
and then a producer or two was her, So like,
(00:23):
you're and she's great, she's amazing, But I thinking, like.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
All the producers are married, all the producer women is
the requirement you have to be married, so you can
only see one single woman over the course of three months. Yeah,
(00:54):
welcome back everybody. This is Off the Beat and I
am your host, Brian bomb Partner, my guest today is
a super successful business owner. He is a podcast host,
he is an author, but he is probably best known
for his dating life. That's right, Bachelor Nation, Rise up
wherever you are, because today I am speaking with Jason Tartig.
(01:19):
He was a rising star in corporate banking in Seattle.
He was plucked from obscurity and into the glorious world
of reality dating television. He appeared on season fourteen of
The Bachelorette with Beca, But sadly, he did not find
true love. We'll discuss that today, I promise. But despite
(01:42):
his nationally broadcast heartbreak, he has bounced back to become
a successful entrepreneur in the investing and financial education world.
He is the host of the podcast Trading Secrets, which
is all about financial transparency. He's also the author of
the new book Talk Money to Me, which is all
about having the hard conversations about money in your relationships.
(02:06):
That book is out this week, so we're going to
dive into all of that. How he ruined his mom's
bachelor addiction by going on the show, the pitfalls of
being a Buffalo Bill's fan, and stars who call the
paparazzi on themselves. I promise that is not me, but
it does happen. This is a fun one. He's handsome,
(02:28):
he's successful. Here he is the extremely eligible Jason Tardick,
Burble and Squeak. I love it Burble and Squeak. No
Burble and Squeaker cook at every month lift over from
(02:49):
the nine before. What's up, Jason, Ryan, How you doing
by man? I mean, you know, I could I could
tell you exactly, but it doesn't matter, like nobody truly nobody.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Well, i'll tell you what you know you. I don't
know if you remember this, Brian, but you and I
were playing at the celebrity Sweat Flag Football together game
in the Super Bowl and you were you were killing
it then, so I'm sure you're killing it now.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Well, listen, I do remember that. That was all I
know about that game is everyone got hurt. And here's
the thing about me. I got hurt in warm ups
and you know who didn't say anything me. I didn't
say a damn thing. I just took it. I just
(03:42):
took See. Here's the thing, RGI three in warm ups.
I don't even know what he's like. You know, he's
like saying, hey, take do this out come in do
that he throws at seventy five miles an hour. Okay, fine,
I catch it. Let's be clear. Totally jam my thumb,
I mean like jammed it, like it was inside out
(04:04):
on my hand, pulsing. And you know what, I didn't
say anything. Everybody else says, I mean he he falls
on his mic pack and breaks his ribs and punctures
is lung. He complains, I don't complain.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
You know, you're just a warrior. And I will tell
you this, that's the biggest misconception behind NFL quarterbacks. It
is the freaking speed at which they throw that ball.
It's like catching the baseball. It's nuts. But you know what,
did you play a snap that day or did you
just act like like, nah, you know, I'll sit one
out for the team.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
No. I played. I played a few snaps, uh, and
then I ended up. UH. They were like, hey, can
you go up and talk to uh? You know our
men and women in military, they're listening on radio. They're like, hey,
can you go say hi in the booth? I was
like absolutely, are you kidding? Absolutely, I'll be better served
up there. I don't know. It was like forty five
(04:58):
minutes later. Am I this entire game? Like I thought
I was saying hi in the booth? I go through
seven or eight commercial breaks and I'm still I'm like, guys,
I think my team needs me down there. I don't know,
but anyway, it was, it was. It was a really
good time. I know you're a Big Bills guy. Talk
(05:22):
about somebody who fires the ball.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Oh yeah, Huge Bills guy Josh Allen fires that ball.
He was flowing around the Super Bowl a little bit.
It was, you know, good to see him out having
a good time. But yeah, I've been a born and
raised Buffalo Bill's fan, fortunately and unfortunately for thirty five years.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Now. Have you have you have you gotten to note
Josh a little bit?
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Yeah? You know, the first time I actually ever came
across Josh was in two thousand. Shoot, I think it
was twenty twenty one is Super Bowl and he's like, yo,
come over here, and he was waving at me, Brian,
and I looked behind me. I'm like, he can't be
waving at me, and he was waving at me, and
I was like, oh god. So I went over hung
(06:05):
out with him, and he said that he had watched
a little bit of The Bachelor, so he knew of
my past. And I'm like, this is unbelievable. I was
drinking beers with Josh Allen at the Barstool party and
that was like, that was like my pinnacle in life
right there.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Well, I was going to say, if you were hanging
out with him at a super Bowl, it wasn't because
he was playing.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Oh Brian's drop of bombs on me.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
No, I'm just saying, I mean, we have, many of
us have expected it. Now for a while I did,
uh well, I thought this last year was going to
be their year. But he is just a super nice guy,
obviously incredibly talented and always very very kind when when
(06:53):
we run into each other, normally on a golf course.
I'll be honest. But yeah, so you grew up in Buffalo.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, yeah, So I was born and raised in Buffalo,
played hockey, soccer, lacrosse there, and then I ended up
going into I went to D three school outside Buffalo,
New York, and I kind of was like the corporate
bank or soldier, like tell me where to go and
how to go. And I moved from New York to
Seattle and it was then at twenty nine, I got
(07:22):
this random call to go on the Bachelorette of all things,
and that was kind of my step into this whole
crazy world of entertainment and media about six years ago.
Speaker 1 (07:32):
Okay, now hold on a second. You just went through
so much so fast. Here, let's break this down for
a second. Okay, So, first off, I was just in
Buffalo for the first time. Uh Is that right? Yeah?
I think that's right. First time I was in Rochester
in Buffalo this last year, fantastic place.
Speaker 2 (07:50):
Well watch you there.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well I did something in Rochester and then I had
something in Toronto, and I was told, uh yeah, that
it was close. So I decided to drive. Although I
will say when the people said, oh you just drive,
(08:12):
that seemed very easy. No one would give me a
car like no one would. No one would allow me
to rent a car and drive it into Canada and
then leave it in Canada. So I ended up this
day Made of the Mist. I don't know, holds a
special sentimental thing in my past, but I had never
(08:33):
been on it myself. Uh, so I went on the
Maid of the Mist. So I drove all the way
to Canada, did the Maid of the Mist, and then
drove back to Buffalo to get a car to take
me literally right over the bridge where I just was
to go into Canada. So that have you been on
the Maid of the Mist?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Oh yeah, Well I lived in Rochester for a few years,
so that drive everybody's talking about. You're talking like four
and a half hours, So I don't know who sent
you that direction. But then you go to Niagara Falls,
and the best part about Niagara Falls there's this old story.
I don't know if it's even true that the mafia
owns the American side and so they have held out,
apparently on doing anything. I don't know if it's true,
(09:16):
but if you look at the Canadian side, it's like
a mini little Disneyland over there. They got Ferris Wheels
and casuos and restaurants, and there's nothing on the on
the American side. But I did the Maid and the
miss with with like my thing is my high school
sweetheart or one of my exes, so it too has
a sentimental place in my heart.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
Run there you go, and now you went. You went
to college, and you went to and you got a
master's in business right at University of Rochester. You were
just now, why did you want to get into business?
Early on?
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I mean I started off as a as a history major,
So if that tells you anything, I was just a
lost kid in freshman year.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
The one thing, the one thing that always intrigued me
was my my grandfather was a hustler. Like he had
he had like poker games underground at his house and
he owned a small grocery store. And then my dad
was always into businesses. And I started like lemonade stands
when I was like six, trying to sell the most
expensive lemonade. So I was always intrigued with with the
(10:19):
the idea of business. But the biggest thing to me, Brian,
was I feel like in my life I got you know,
here and there I was lied to, Like I feel
like stories in this world shift and context change. What
I loved about numbers is that they don't lie, like
they tell the truth. And so I was always attracted
to numbers from an early ag job.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Interesting and then why why Seattle and you were in
You were in full on corporate banking, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I was full corporate banking, full steam. And to me, Brian,
it was like at this time, I was just like
the yes man, like tell me where to go, and
I'll go. So I took that whole mentality of like
I will be early, I will stay late, I will
exceed expectations. And I kind of lived the like entirety
of my life through my twenties through my job title.
(11:10):
And so when they offered me an opportunity to move
to Seattle, I took it. Now I have a podcast
called Trading Secrets, and so what we do on Trading
Secrets I'd love to have yacht at some point. We
have you know, different celebrities and public figures talk about,
you know, where they made money, how much they made like,
you know, whether it was Gronkowski, a Rod or one
of the Real House of New York, Like what do
(11:30):
you pay per episode? What'd you get paid on that
brand deal? Where'd you lose money? Because I've always been
intrigued with that. So I'm very open about money for
your listeners when they hear me talk about it. And
I liked, I think healthy conversations about money can like
really help us as we're all trying to navigate in
the world that we weren't taught this shit. So but
I was twenty nine years old. I got offered this job.
It was twenty seventeen, and it was one hundred and
(11:53):
sixty five base, one hundred and ten signing bonus, and
I could make up to like three times my base
based on performance. So I didn't know one person Seattle,
but I was like, I'll take in that deal. Let's
go pack my bags and moved across the country.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
So I don't know. I mean, you brought up the mafia,
and you brought up being like very transparent about money.
I think maybe what you're going to learn about me
today is I'm I might be connected. Oh I don't know.
I don't ever. I don't ever talk about my money.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
Oh you're one of those guys. So like if you
if you were asked, if you were asked just that curious.
You don't have to answer. It's your podcast, not mine.
Would you be comfortable talking about like what you made
on your episodic basis and how you negotiate and when
you made like the big payday or does that make
you like super uncomfortable?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Yeah? No, no, Yeah, I don't know. I don't I mean,
I don't you know. I had two hobbies that took
a long long time, golf and and and poker, so
I had I felt like I had to give up
one for for life choices and and fail family sanity.
So I gave up poker. But yeah, no, that used
(13:04):
to be. At the like local game that we had
in La was people would start talking about how much
money I had on the table, and I would say that,
don't talk about my money, talk about my money. Just
concern yourself with yours and me taking it. I don't
worry about my money.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
I love that. Now we had our podcast, we had
Daniel ran on and hed a little bit about some
of those underground games. We also had Molly Bluemon who
right is from Molly's Game? Yes, I mean there's some
crazy shit that happens in those underground games.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Brian, Yeah, yeah, well those are not that's that's what
that was above. That's that's that's above, my pig rade.
I will I will fully admit I have not been
in Molly's Game.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
I would would you ever admit the most amount of
money at a poker table that's been in your stack?
Speaker 1 (13:55):
No? No, I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't. I mean maybe
if we were having a beer and we weren't. Yeah,
but no, I do not, probably not. I don't know.
That's fascinating to me. Well, here's people just want to
talk to you about this on. I mean, this is
a self, this is a cell right now about your
(14:16):
Trading Secrets podcast. I mean, I'm definitely gonna listen to
that now. I mean I was ready to plug it
and check it out, but now kidding me, Well, here.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
Let me ask you this though, because I love these conversations.
You don't have to answer any of them. But like,
when you think about why you don't like talking about it,
there is something behaviorally, and it could be good, it
could be bad. It could be protection, it could be stigma, bragging,
weaponizing what people think. Like, what do you think the
real reason is when you hear like me asking you
(14:46):
about your stack or what you made on an episodic basis, Like,
why does that make you uncomfortable? What is it?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
You know, it's funny. I just made a joke. Who
did I just make a joke? Oh yeah, I was
hosting this thing with a profeon golfer and I started
ribbing him. Uh because you know, of course the purses
for professional golf tournaments are public, so I know exactly
to the scent how much money he made on a
(15:13):
particular weekend. Right, I think it's I don't know, maybe
it's maybe it's my southern upbringing or something, and I
that sounds like a hedge or something. I think it's
uncouth to talk about money. Yeah, yeah, I mean in
terms of myself, I'm I'm totally happy and I'm totally
happy to discuss discuss things in general. But yeah, I mean, right,
(15:37):
doesn't that make it just about you? And what you're
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
I think I think it's the exercise of like trying
to analyze where is the situation where coming and talking
about money is stopped at in your tracks, and then
understanding why because I'm guessing, but just stay based on
this conversation, I do feel if I asked you certain
jobs you had before things went really well, or like
(16:05):
maybe your toughest time trying to make it in that
space when like you couldn't even maybe afford your next meal,
what was that like? Or someone like the tough times.
Some people get really comfortable talking about that, but it's
like when they talk about the successes, it comes off
they feel like braggadocious. But what I think is cool
is that through each person's story, especially someone like you
(16:27):
who's had such cool successes, through your story, there's a
lot of people out there that are really really struggling
but have the dreams and aspiration to be you. And
it could be hearing your success and what you did
in your times of disarray financially that keeps them focused,
that keeps them motivated. So I think if we do
it in a healthy, like non weaponizing way, we could
actually like motivate inspire and learn a lot. That's kind
(16:49):
of my thesis. And I think that if we don't
talk about it, we're actually just like hurting ourselves as
consumers and employees and business owners and just like our
over all financial health.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
That's very interesting, and I think on a I think
in a utopian from a in a utopian space, I
hear what you're saying, but let's be honest with you.
Speaker 2 (17:13):
Yeahs it.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
And I'm speaking of truly, like just in general, if
you're a quarterback in the National Football League and all
those contracts are public, and you see a contract that
you of someone who you believe you are better than,
it becomes about getting one more dollar than that person.
And what is that like? I will say this, I
(17:38):
feel like I feel like for myself, I am at
least proud of and at times maybe under sell myself.
But I feel like I am able very often to
analyze the situation and determine, based on whatever that particular
(17:58):
market is, determine what I should be compensated. And I
think the thing that's unique about what I know is
unique about me and my perspective on that is in
this world, it's about the negotiation, and you have lawyers
(18:19):
who are UH who depend upon that negotiation UH to
for their survival right, which of course ends up eating
up a bunch of money. I say an amount of
money and that's it, and there's.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
There's no negotiation that amount of money.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Well no, but it's but it's not. It's not in
an adversarial way. It's a I've I have preanalyzed your side,
and I have determined that this is the right amount
of money, and it's and I'm not over selling it,
which to me makes things much simpler. And and it
doesn't matter to me what anyone else is making or
(19:02):
where I'm making in regard to anybody else. I have
analyzed the situation. I believe this is the amount, and
this is the amount.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
Interesting, I do think that is unconventional. I think it's
a talent and skill set you have that most people don't.
But I think if we look at like anything, and
I love this conversation, by the way, if we look
at like anything in America, everything that is that we
do based on our willingness to pay the price of
a stock, what we are paid, what we pay for gas.
(19:32):
Obviously there's uncontrollables, but a lot of it is all
based on your simple theory of economics, like willing to
pay based on supply and demand, and then people fluctually. Right,
we know restaurant prices are up twenty five percent last
four years. We know that child daycare is up forty
one percent in the last two years, so we know
that prices changed based on economic conditions but also people's
(19:53):
willingness to pay. So I think the idea of like
the arbitrary of analyzing yourself and naming your numbers very specific,
very unique. I feel like I want you to write
a book on it because I want to read it.
And I'll even go back to your quarterback statement, like
I would actually disagree with your quarterback statement. And I
think the people that have utilized the fact that they
(20:13):
understand that they are underpaid but there's a greater long
term play are the ones that are making more money
than anyone. Now. Classic example, right, Tom Brady took a
paid cut so that his team could be completely stacked.
He won the Super Bowls that he did. And I
guarantee you Tom Braid is making a minimum I would
(20:33):
say a minimum of three x what he's making now
than he was playing. And I know some of this
is just even the small little bit of it is
like even Gronk Brock has come on my show and
talked about it. He's making way more money now than
he did playing. So I think people that could eat
or maybe even yourself, right, maybe if you were paid less,
but you knew that your involvement in the show would
(20:55):
be more. Your brand, your longevity if your brand is
even greater. So I don't know. It's just fun conversation.
But the one thing I'll say, and then we could
pause this or we could go into a different direction,
is with the book, is talk money to me? We
know that having conversations with loved ones or our significant
other about money statistically prove it puts us in a
(21:16):
better position to succeed. And I could bore you with
eight thousand stats, but that one we know for sure.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I do want to dive into your store. You're in Seattle,
you're working as a money manager. Tell me how did
you get on the Bachelorette?
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, so I got well, I did this thing. So
Guilda's club. Gilda Radner, famous comedian. She died abruptly of
ovarian cancer. So they created this non for profit called
Guild this club and they did this Bachelor auction where
they recruited thirty guys to come on and raise money
for the non for profit. And that night I came
out to old time rock and roll. Everyone's wearing like tuxedos,
(22:12):
and I was like, I gotta win this thing. So
I start stripping, I started taking everything off. I start
going nuts, and I raised the most money of the
thirty bachelors. So there was a video from that night
that was sent to ABC of me, and you know,
there's three thousand people in the audience and two people
(22:33):
got submitted from that night to The Bachelor, one being
my best friend. So you're not gonna believe this. Eight
months goes by after that auction. I don't even live
in New York. I get a call, Hey, are you single?
And do you still live in New York? So no,
I'm single. We live in Seattle, and they tell me
they're from The Bachelor. That day, my best buddy calls me.
(22:54):
He's like, you're not gonna believe what happened. I said,
you're not gonna believe what happened. And we went through
the casting process from this batchl auction eight nine months before.
Speaker 1 (23:05):
That's unbelievable. What so, But somebody else sent it and
then they contacted you to see if you were interested
in doing it correct, Why did you want to do it?
Speaker 2 (23:16):
That's the golden question. My parents were ready to kill me, but.
Speaker 1 (23:21):
I would have too, by the way, But anyway, continue.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
They're like, what the hell you're doing? My mom has
watched the show since day one. She's like, literally, she oh,
she watched. She knows everything. She knows everything. So Brian,
she tells me, my only escape from you, your brother
and your father is this damn show. You're not getting involved?
And here I am. Years later, so touched it, but
(23:46):
I ended up going because I found I kind of
told you a little earlier, but I was just chasing
so much career, career, career. I kind of lost myself
and I just had no I was just like, what
am I doing with my life? I'm so focused on
my job. Even the way I talk and dress, it's
literally connected to my title. And so I said in
(24:07):
ABC's calling to go on a show, and I'm just
like kid born in this small town. I'm a greasy
banker and they want me to go, Like, hell, yeah,
I'm going. Why would I not go, so I.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
And the experience positive for you. Did you fall in love?
Speaker 2 (24:25):
So?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Did you fall in love? Over the course of nine
weeks on the Bachelorette? Did you fall in love?
Speaker 2 (24:33):
I feel like Bride's judging me so hard this podcast.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
We're getting into it. When the first we talked money,
Now we're going to talk about this, you fall in
love with Becca.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
I'm going to answer your question before I do. I
promise i'll answer it before I do. I want to
tell you about the because I think it's a poker player.
You'd be impressed with this. To get the bank to
allow me to go on the show, I went back
and watched the previous seasons. I then asked producers information
so I had an idea of numbers. So on average,
(25:14):
there's thirty people from the cast that go on the show.
After night one, on average, one third of them are
gone after night two filming. They say it's two weeks,
but it's really only three days. After week two, roughly
like forty percent are gone, and after a month only
four people are left. So I use this like mathematical
breakdown of my likelihood of when I would return back
(25:36):
to work in the percentage, and it was like an
eighty seven point nine percent chance I'd be back and
work in four weeks. And that's how the company actually
let me use vacation time and go on a reality show.
So I thought, as a poker guy, you would like that.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Well, so okay, so you have.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
What my boss thought, and he's like, you gotta be
shitting me. And then it went to the VP, and
then it went all the way to the president of
the entire bank, who's looking at this breakdown of how
many people from the Bachelor get certain roses and how
many weeks and give the kid us his vacation.
Speaker 1 (26:07):
There you know what I thought you were going to say,
which this would have been perfect, This would have been smarter,
but this would have gotten you on quicker. You tell
them go through and analyze how much money those people
have or how much they will have after the show,
and say, look, I'm not going on to find love.
(26:27):
I'm going on because I'm going to manage all of
their money when they're done. I'm going to make them
like me and then then then I can manage their money.
You didn't think about that one.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Do you own a consulting business, Brian, Because I'm ready
to hire you today. That's good, all right, I'll get
back to your question. I won't.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
So they Yeah, did you fall in love?
Speaker 2 (26:48):
How many?
Speaker 1 (26:49):
How many? So nine weeks was not nine weeks or
nine episodes.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
No, so so in the early section they have to
do it fast because when they do like hometowns and
actually fly to your home or you fly international, it
takes longer. So the whole filming process was about actually
three months, but most of the cast is eliminated in
the first four or five weeks, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
So you were there three months?
Speaker 2 (27:12):
Yeah, we got we got to go to Buffalo from
my hometowns. I didn't do the Maid of the Myss,
but we got to go.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
I should have done the Miss Ship. Did you fall
in love with Becca Koufrian?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
Yeah? And TV Land I was falling in love with Becca.
But then you because when you're doing it, Brent, you
don't get your phone, no TV, no Internet, you can't
talk to your family, you can't talk to friends, you
don't hear music, and you're sequestered. Oh, you're sequestered. So
like the only woman that I saw in like three
months other than a producer or two, was her. So
(27:44):
like you're and she's great, she's amazing. But I think
in like.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
All the producers are married, all the producer women. It's
the requirement. You have to be married, so you can
only see one single woman over the course of three months. Well,
I mean, you know, you have your home town thing.
You see some other Yeah, but it's some old gal
friends there.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Oh no, no, no, no, you're in. You're in. Like
when you go to hometowns, you're in your hotel. You
can go to dinner with the producer. You go back
to your hotel, and you're only coming out for filming,
so you're not like going to meet up with buddies
and stuff. You're you're in their world. So in TV land,
actually you fell in love in TV land?
Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, what is that? Okay? I understand what you mean
in TV land, but like, but you your heart, you
fell in love.
Speaker 2 (28:30):
At the time during that moment when I said it,
I felt it to the core.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Okay, you felt it to the core.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Two weeks after I like got like, whoa, You're out
of this like hypnosis state of TV Land. I was like,
what the hell did I just do? Like what was that?
How did that happen?
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right? So yeah, right, like you, you're like I. And
then because here's the thing. If you if like if
you say to someone that you love them and you
want to marry them in real life and it and
something goes awry, like they choose your best friend, Like
they choose your best friend instead of you, This could
(29:11):
be a This could be debilitating for years, right am
I not crazy about that? Like if you're like essentially
left at the altar, I want to propose to you
and you're like, no, I like your best friend more,
this would be debilitating, right, like in real in real
non TV life.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I mean, don't you tell me what's worse? Brian, So
I came in third, right right, and but one of
my very very good friends that season still to this day,
he came in second. So he proposed and she said
no and went to the other guy. I actually I
have been you know, I've been on this journey for
three months. I'm going through it. I'm through the ringer
(29:50):
and then I get to the fantasy suitet dates. So
it's like, okay, here we go. You know, that's it's
fantasy sueet dates and at dinner right for a fantasy
sweet night. I got dumped that fantasy sweet night. So
you tell me what's worked. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, but that would be demilitating. But
what you're saying is is that a couple of weeks later,
you you know you're good. I mean, you're okay.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I think.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
The reality is what's crazy about this show is you
actually you watch it all back. So you film for
a few months and then you watch it all back.
So then you're seeing this girl that you fell in
love with with all these other guys. You're like, oh wow,
her connection is way better with them, and the now
here's the curveball of all curve balls, because you know,
(30:37):
my story gets even a little more interesting where yeah ahead,
if you're into that one. Well, the thing is is
you think about the person. And this is when I
have so much sympathy for the people that actually end
up together. These two are engaged, they're in this like hiatus,
they're living their best life, and then they have to
(30:57):
go watch back every episode and this person that they're
engaged with and now planning their whole life with them
moving in is like literally like hooking up and falling
in love with all these people, and you have to
see it on TV Wow America like picks them as
a fan favorite. How hard is that got to be?
Speaker 1 (31:14):
Oh, yeah, that's tough. That's oh I didn't think about that.
That in a way is worse than like any And
I'm not talking about hook I'm not talking about anything
totally untoward. But that's worse than like bad behavior at
a bachelor party, right, I mean, this is like you're
actually watching real feelings play out between two people right
(31:41):
on the doorstep of your engagement. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
I mean I haven't been there. When I've talked to
those people that have been through it, and they're like,
it's brutal because you're also you're watching everything. You're watching
them fall in love, You're watching them interact with the
other family, You're watching them interact with your family. You're
watching that person pick out a potential ring. So it's
like all these things and people say, you know, the
Bachelor franchise has struggled with having successful relationships, which it has,
(32:07):
but they attribute it to all different things. I think
the number one reason is because you have to watch
all this back and so much resentment is built, and
then you're you're thrown into this world of like media,
which you've never seen, and it's just like the spin
of it all creates mayhem.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
Well, okay, maybe, but isn't it also.
Speaker 2 (32:30):
Like what do you mean? Maybe? What do you well?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Isn't it also like, I mean, there's a there's a
fantastic movie called The Truman Show, which is I mean,
it's not exactly the same, but you are essentially choosing
a pool of people that producers have chosen who they
believe will make good television for people to watch. For
(32:55):
this person to you know, potentially be with. Right, I mean,
you're not going You're not going into a bar, yeah,
or a or a you know, restaurant or whatever with
three hundred people and going all right, I'm gonna choose
those twelve.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Right, No, Yeah, you're right, You're right.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Fair So fascinating. Have you been approached to go back again?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
I have. The last time I was ever approached was
to go on Paradise like twenty eighteen, and then I
signed a contract to be the bacher, but they went
with a different guy. So I have not that approach
to do anything from a cast perspective since twenty eighteen.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
So so you signed? So is this is this like
my line of work? You sign a contract and then
they choose from a couple of people. Is that what happens.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
Yep, that's what happens. Yeah, my god, what they do
in your world too?
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Yes? Are you serious? Yeah, well you know that's big.
You know about money, that's why that is yeah, they yes,
but you are negotiating with three people, three people, right,
three people at the same time. That's usually what it
is in my world. Three people. So that you signed
three contracts to be on a show, and then they
(34:10):
have the they can execute it exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
The difference is, you guys are getting paid a whole
lot of money. We're all getting paid the exact same
and it's not that much money.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
And so I actually, well, the leverage point you're all
all of yours is the same contract.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
The leverage point is like they might know exactly who
they're gonna have no matter what, and then they bring
in three people, and the leverage point is the person
that is their number one will not negotiate anything, not
even just thought about anything, because they know if they do,
the number two, three person will be slotted. So it
puts you in a position where you really can't negotiate
at all. But what I almost did, which connects to
(34:49):
the example earlier. I almost revert. I wish they wouldn't
have picked me anyway, but I almost reverse negotiated where
I was gonna say, pay me nothing to do it,
I'll actually do it for free because the the actual
present value of that role is so much, so much
greater than the actual dollar amount you're provided to do it.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Oh yes, love, sweep love. Oh but oh maybe I
can't who That's the promo right there.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
No one in twenty twenty four, and I mean, nobody
in twenty twenty four goes on reality TV without an angle.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Nobody, nobody goes on without an angle.
Speaker 2 (35:33):
No in twenty twenty four, not one, not one.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Okay, you ended up having a relationship, and see, look
I don't talk about relationships with very many of my guests,
but it seems really important. You got together with another
former bachelorette, Caitlin Bristow for a long period of time.
Now was this something that this happened naturally? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (35:55):
So this was very organic. This was not like this
was not filmed. No, we were out. It's just like
Truman show broke through the walls and then he met someone.
So we weren't in the Truman Show.
Speaker 1 (36:07):
Thank you for going to thank you for going with
my analogy there so okay, and then and then that
that also did not work out for other other reasons.
Speaker 2 (36:17):
Yeah, So we were together for you know, we met
after so they decided to go with the other bats Or.
She has a podcast which does very well. I went
out our podcast. She asked me, like, what's what now?
You know what happens now, what's your life gonna look like?
We actually met that day, started dating thereafter, and we
were together for about four and a half years. In
(36:38):
the last summer that that didn't work out, So here
we are.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
My question really is about having so much of your
personal life play out and you know, I mean we
have fun. I have fun, hopefully you have fun. It
is a part of it, right, It's what you just
talked about going on reality TV. There there's an angle,
and so part of that is it feels like you
have to let your personal life play out in public.
(37:26):
Right Is that is that? Is that? Is that? Right? Yeah?
For better or worse, Not that you love it all
the time, but that's a part of it, right.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
It's it's for I would say, the way it is
is it's for better at very high level and like
very highs and for better and very worse at very
deep worse like it's it's very extremes of showcasing your
personal life, uh to everyone. But I remember the first
couple of weeks, I was just trying to understand it all,
and I was so worried about like an edit and
(37:54):
things like this, and a producer said it best to me.
They said, listen, when you sign up for this, what
you're doing is you're getting out a roller coaster. And
when you get on a roller coaster, you have one option.
You strap in and you enjoy it, or you shrap
in and you're miserable. But no matter what you do
in that roller coaster, there's gonna be that turn, there's
gonna be the scare of going up, there's gonna be
the crazy fall. It's gonna happen. So while you're on
(38:16):
this show, you're on a roller coaster. And what I
recognize is even after the show now with social media,
it's the same roller coaster. But you don't think about it. Brian,
You you have a skill. You are a very skilled human.
You are funny, You are an actor. You've worked on
your trait. You've built this community reality TV stars. For
the most part, our only superpower is opening up our
(38:40):
personal life. So those who try to fight it are
those who try to over edit themselves or those who
try to put on something else. The truth all we
surfaces and it won't work, it won't last. There's zero
longevity for doing so. So it's almost like you have
no other choice should you step into this world.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
So, in other words, if you step into this role,
you say no, then you're then then you shouldn't have
even stepped in to begin with, because you're you're done. Yeah,
is that what you're saying? I mean yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:09):
People that say no, two things happen. Either they get
cut out from the show because they make terrible TV
because they won't open up and there's no purpose for them.
Or they say no with the idea of I am
going to be something I'm not. And the problem is
this world is too transparent and the truth always right,
bodies always float to the surface, like truth always surfaces,
Like eventually they end up getting their stuff, like it
(39:30):
will like blow up on them, you know, Like someone
will have a girlfriend then go on the show and
act like they're single. And falling in love and then
what do you know, like that gets exposed and all
of a sudden everything blows up. So it's either know
wing they go away or knowing it blows up.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
Yeah, it's interesting to me. I mean, you know, I
got married and I found out at the reception that
I needed to comment to a magazine that will not
be named about my wedding that's just happened. And I said, well,
that's none o their business. Of course, no comment, And
(40:04):
my publicist was kneeling next to me and said, well,
if you don't comment, it's coming out anyway, because they
were there and we had people hanging from the trees
outside of my house taking pictures of various guests that
were in my own home that came there, and then
forced me on that day to answer to their whim.
(40:27):
I'm not getting I'm not selling pictures, I'm not getting paid.
But now I've subjected my guests, many of which who
are famous, to that I won't ever speak to that
publication anymore. Same publication came to me after the birth
of my first daughter, and I said, no comment, and
they said, well, we know the story, like we know already,
(40:48):
And I said you know, not to them specifically, but
I said fuck you, and I on my Instagram you
can see to this day that announcement by me with
all the details that I could think that they could
possibly know about the birth of my first daughter, because
I wasn't going to give that to them. So what
I'm saying is is that I work in such a
(41:08):
different way that for me, like the idea of that
and you having that all of the time just must
be incredibly difficult. And as you say, there are highs,
there are highs that I'm sure are are fantastic, but
I just, yeah, it's it's really it's a it's a
(41:30):
it's a difficulty that I struggle with all of the
time because I chose to be an actor and I chose,
I guess to be in film and television and understand
what comes along with that. But I think there's a
line for me, There's there's a line. And you know,
I don't know if I say that, I feel badly
(41:53):
for you. I feel bad that those things have to
play out in the press.
Speaker 2 (42:00):
Yeah, And I mean, you know you were you were
extremely light with it, right, Like there are some discussions
you have when you're doing a new project or something
like Brett, you know that my book, that's the world I'm promoting.
But like, there are some places you go to promote
your book and it's it's not like how is your
relationship you break up? It's everything you can possibly think
(42:21):
of in the darkest way, people asking, And so I
think the way I've I've approached it is listen, especially
people from the Bachelor franchise, you can do really really
cool things with the platform that we're given because of
the show. And there's a handful of people that have
done unbelievably exceptional things. But it's almost impossible. It's almost
(42:42):
impossible to remove and or completely eliminate Bachelor being from
your resume or spoken about when you're doing things. And
it's a challenge. But do you wish that it was
in a perfect world? Yeah, in a perfect world, yes,
And I think that's what people try to do. They
try to build their brands, but the reality is is
(43:04):
that it never will and actually being attached to it
helps a lot too. So it's one of these things.
It's like it's a give and take, it's a love hate.
It just is what it is, and it's something you
just can't escape and reality TV is just so. And
the things that come from reality TV, the monetization of
brands after reality TV, the business side of reality TV,
(43:25):
it is so much different, right of course, as you
know then, like the business of a famous actor comedian
like yourself. Because what's crazy and I know this because
I own a talent agency now is what a lot
of the time propels people's brand for it in the
reality unscripted space, what's the gasoline to the fire. A
(43:45):
lot of it is making sure that they're at your wedding,
making sure you're talking about these things, these things you
hide from unfortunately, and unscripted space. I don't want to
speak for everybody, for a lot it's actually what fuels it.
So it's like pick your poison if you still want
to be in the game. And it's a crazy space,
it's freaking nuts.
Speaker 1 (44:06):
But yeah, you know, I'm not I'm not gonna mention
the name, but I it's so funny. I tell the
story to friends all the time. This was the first
time I realized to what degree this this was happening.
And this is a number of this is a number
of years ago. This is when more like you know,
the quote unquote paparazzi was bigger and getting, you know,
getting photographed here or there out, you know, in supposed
(44:28):
private moments. And I was in an airport. I was
flying from New York to LA and I had the
two people on the plane with me. We were walking
through the airport of JFK and they're like stumbling like
with their bags. They're carrying a lot of bags with them,
and this guy kind of comes out of the shadows,
(44:49):
it seems to me, and like comes out and uh,
the woman that I'm referring to, like hands him one
of her carry on and like her jacket and her
pillow for the plane and all the stuff. And they
are walking together, and suddenly I realized, oh, this is
(45:10):
a paparazzi. I mean talking about fueling your own and
setting this. I mean this literally, they have told this
person that they know that they're going to be walking
through the New York airport. And then sure enough, because
I consciously went the next day and looked, there were
the photographs, the supposed like private, secretive paparazzi photographs in
(45:32):
JFK that he was actually carrying their bags. I mean,
it was just that's and this a number of years ago.
I'm older and jaded now, but like at the time,
I was like, oh, this is how it works, Like
this is all a scam somehow when they catch me,
it's totally by accident. But these people like have set
(45:53):
it up, no wonder, they look much better than I do.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
That is so funny you just said that, because especially
in the reality space, like I would say ninety percent
of all paparazzi reality TV is set up. The other
thing that's set up is people will get brands to
take so they'll wear the brand when they're super hot
off the show, and they'll plan when the paparazzi's going
to capture them in the brand so that that brand
(46:17):
ends up in a magazine and therefore they actually get
paid for it. And I know people in the batch
or space that have called like TMZ TMZ on them
and some of them don't even admit it. But I
got so flustered the other day because I went to
I was doing this deal with Capital One cafe. I
was going to speak at their cafe, and someone from
TMZ came up to me asking about a rumor they
(46:39):
heard of a relationship. And I was so flustered. I
was so caught off dark, I was so rattled, and
I was so pissed because now everyone knows. Everyone knows
or at least things into space like you called them,
and I'm like, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (46:52):
Call it some mess.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
I was like sweating, and I know a TMZ guy
texted and I said, bro, what the hell? Like I thought,
we were like, you couldn't give me a tip? And
he goes, He goes, dude, I would have been there.
I would have tipped you off. I didn't know about it,
and so it just happened two weeks ago, and I
had literally no idea. But most people literally call it
(47:15):
on themselves.
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Yeah, I've never done it. I've never called them myself.
We talked about Trading Secrets podcast after this conversation here
is you have a new subscriber for sure for me.
But I really want to talk about your new book.
I love the title talk Money to Me. Did you
(47:37):
ever consider talk money to me baby? Did you ever
think about that?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
Well, it's a little play on talk dirty to me
that you know.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
The Yeah, I was trying to eight essential financial questions
to discuss with your partner. What's the biggest, most important
financial question that you should always talk money to your
partner about.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
Well, the thing is this is that we know right
now that money arguments is second leading reason for divorce.
We know that seventy three percent of couples say that
money creates material tension in the relationship, and of those
seventy three percent, over half of them attributed to decreased
intimacy from money. So the biggest topic here in the
(48:24):
question they ask, like, what's the number one question? The
biggest thing we need to do is stop hiding, stop shaming,
stop weaponizing. If you're not comfortable, like we talked about
here today, Brian talking it to the million people that
listen to your podcast, I get it. But to the
person that you absolutely love, the person that contractually financially
you're connected to, we know we have to start talking.
(48:46):
So the step one is like, let's start have the conversations,
and then step two would be, you know these eight
numbers that identify as the most essential to talk about
with your significant other.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
Is there one one of those questions that you feel
like is the most important.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
If I had to say the number one, I would
say it's understanding what is your net worth? And how
can we go over our networth on a quarterly or
bi weekly or annual basis. And the reason I say
networth is because net worth is everyone thinks, google networth,
how much is it? But no, everyone has a networth.
(49:23):
Everyone that's listening does. And all it does is it
gives you a direct snapshot of everything, of your debt,
of the money that's spent, of the money that comes
in and through your net worth, you can't hide things.
And we know in forty three percent of couples there's
one person forty three percent of the time that's committing
financial infidelity, which is like hiding money or hiding purchases
(49:46):
that are a material amount. So the net worth captures
everything and it allows you, guys to be on the
same page with how it's moving up, down, left or right.
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Do you think you need to disclose to your partner
every time you go to Starbucks?
Speaker 2 (50:00):
Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
No, Okay, perfect, that's not a material thing.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
What I'm talking about, Brian, is like I but I
interviewed people that had financial fraud right, and I got
hundreds and I actually got over a thousand emails, And
I ask people, tell me about a financial fraud story
in your life, your loved ones and like one of
the examples is a woman gets married to this guy.
She went by Jane Doe. She want to be anonymous.
They're married for a year after they met. He has
(50:26):
good income with a bad credit, That's what he tells her.
She has great credit, Okay income. She takes out the mortgage.
She agrees that he will venmo her half of the
amount for the house. They agree to it, no contracts.
They close on the house the day they close. The
irs owns her house because he has hundreds of thousands
of dollars in back taxes. She never knew about it.
(50:48):
He never told her. And these things happen all the time.
So I'm not talking about the Starbucks run. I'm talking about.
Speaker 1 (50:53):
Stuff like that. Oh my god. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
Or did you see Tinder Swindler there's Netflix. Yeah, yeah,
we did a follow up with one of the girls.
She got swindled. The whole world knows this guy's a
scumbag and took advantage of them. She got swindled in
fifty four days. The systems allowed her to take over
two hundred thousand dollars in debt and she was making
only only sixty thousand dollars a year. Still to this
(51:16):
day she is liable zero forgiveness. She's had to claim bankruptcy.
So even in situations like that where the whole world
knows the truth and that you were taking advantage of,
at the end of the day, you're accountable for your decisions.
And if you don't talk about it and you don't
know about it, you could be leaving yourself susceptible.
Speaker 1 (51:33):
How is he out like?
Speaker 2 (51:34):
How well, what he did was like the mechanics.
Speaker 1 (51:38):
It was a gift or something, and so.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Well he got right. What he did was he convinced
the people. He found certain personality types. So if you're
listening to this and you have a personality type in
which you could be taking advantage of, or you're a
people plaser, you are susceptible to be taking advantage of.
But he would find those personality types. He would convince
them through manipulation to open credit cards. He would and
then convince them through manipulation to give him the number.
(52:03):
He would run everything up and then they were liable
because he never signed for it. He never initiated they did.
He just convinced it to do them. So all the
debt that he put on their cards they're still liable for.
Speaker 1 (52:14):
Well, it makes a whole lot of sense to me
that you need to have these open conversations. And I
think that you know, whether it's monthly or bi annually
or you know, as you said, every few months, have
a scheduled conversation where you're talking about And I like
(52:35):
what you said too, because it's not how much money
you're making, but if it's true net worth, then yeah,
all of your debt, credit card, mortgage, you know, all
of that stuff is all sort of laid out on
the table. So that and it's not about I mean,
I assume you would say it's not about saying, oh
we're in trouble or oh dear God. But it's just like,
(52:56):
let's just look at it and make sure that we're
all on the same page, and if they're things that
we wanted you differently, we can right.
Speaker 2 (53:02):
Yeah, it's exactly like it's a little saying network is
not your self worth. But it's just like let's have
visibility to it and work as a unit on it
and see it as a unit because we know that
like all the metrics that define success in relationship, like
you know, even sex drive, even breakups, like everything is
connected when your money is like managed as a unit
(53:23):
as opposed to different directions. So that's that's the overall thought.
Speaker 1 (53:27):
Talk money to me, baby, that's that's I need that
on my book. No, it's talk money to Me. Jason.
Thank you so much, and you know what, listen, thank
you for being open to this conversation. I mean we
talked about things that I may not have been totally
(53:49):
comfortable with it. We also talked about things that you
weren't comfortable with. I think it's the start of a
great relationship.
Speaker 2 (53:55):
I think so too. I'm looking forward to it. If
you guys are listening to this, go DM Brian and
tell them to come on Training Secrets and Brian, let's
have you on man. Let's talk money by.
Speaker 1 (54:05):
Trading secrets available as we say, wherever you get your
podcasts and also the new book Talk Money to Me. Jason,
Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2 (54:18):
Brian, you're the man. Thank you so much for having
me and whether it's poker or beer whatever, I look
forward to hopefully connected soon.
Speaker 1 (54:24):
Absolutely, Thanks ma'am.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
All right, take care.
Speaker 1 (54:38):
Jason. Wow, you really made me think about some things
that I have not been historically all that open about
I'm not sure I'm going to start sharing my personal
life and finances all over, but I am certainly thinking
about them. Thank you so much for accepting this podcast invitation.
I don't have roses for you, but you can come
(55:00):
back anytime. Jason's new book Talk Money to Me is
hitting bookshelves as we speak, and his podcast Trading Secrets
is available wherever you listen to podcasts. I know I'm
going to be turning in check those out today. Come
back here next week for more of well, more of me.
Until then, have a good week. Off the Beat is
(55:30):
hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our
executive producer Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia.
Our producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr.
Our talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary, and our intern
is Ali Amir Sahi. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak,
(55:52):
performed by the one and only Creed Bratton,
Host
Brian Baumgartner
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