Rainn Wilson

On this episode of Off the Beet [Farm], Brian catches up with his dear old friend Rainn Wilson. Instead of talking about The Office, they go much deeper into how he harnessed his childhood struggles to play some of the weirdest characters out there, traveling the world for his new show Rainn Wilson and the Geography of Bliss, and okay fine, they do talk about The Office a little too.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're back. We're together. Look at this.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
I love it.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Thanks for coming out from San Diego. Hey, it's really
good to be in person. I'm excited about that to
see you.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Come on, come on, are we rolling? Both of them?
And this too is rolling? Everything's rolling. Oh my god,
it's happening.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's totally happening. Hi everybody, and welcome back to another
episode of Off the Beat. As always, this is your

(00:49):
host Brian Baumgartner today. Yeah, very special, live in person.
The Man, the myth, the legend. He's a New York
Times best selling author. He is the host of his
new show, Geography of Bliss, and I'm sure you have
all of his other credits memorized. That's right. Rain Wilson

(01:11):
aka Dwight Shrut is joining me today.

Speaker 3 (01:16):
Hey, Brian, Off the Beat, get it Off the Beat.
Today's episode is Off the Beat.

Speaker 4 (01:26):
Farm Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and Squeakna
Bubble and Squeak. I could get every mole left over
from the nine before.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Hi Brian, Hi buddy, this is cool.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
What what's happened?

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Well? You know, I mean we hadn't seen each other
in so long and now twice in a few weeks.
It's crazy. I love it. Yeah, I need more. I
need to come to your farm for sure. I really
want to come to your farm.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
You need to bring the kids out to my little.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Farm, to your farm. Yeah, it's like a petting zoo.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Bring the children out to the farm and there's a
it's like a little petting zoo, and there's fruits.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Do you let any children come to your petting zoo?

Speaker 3 (02:32):
All the children?

Speaker 1 (02:33):
You don't invite the children? Yes, I really.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
I walk down the streets of Oxnard, California playing the
flute and the children follow, and there's magical animals and yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
You're the pied Piper of ox and ard of Oxnard, California.
Was that a dream early on to be the pied
piper of Oxnard, California?

Speaker 3 (02:54):
That that was out of my wheelhouse? It was out
of my imaginary field of being.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, it was great to see you.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Nice to see you.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, like really, I started watching your show, which we're
going to talk about later. Obviously you are very this
is going to be a running theme of this conversation. Okay,
that you're very open. I have been very open about
your history, your personal history. Uh huh. You grew up

(03:27):
in Washington and like in almost the first line of
the show said you had an unhappy childhood. Yeah, yeah,
first off, why was it unhappy?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
You're going right to it.

Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah, I'm going right to it. No, I'm going right
to it because it's fascinating that you are so open
in all of your work. I mean, you're open as
an artist, as an actor.

Speaker 3 (03:51):
I don't understand why more people aren't as open to me.
It makes total sense to be open. I guess maybe
I've been in therapy for twenty years, so I'm just
really used to kind of excavating this stuff. And I've
done a lot of therapeutic work in lots of different ways.
So listen in a lot of senses. You know, my

(04:12):
childhood was normal and happy. You know, I wasn't starved,
but I was love starved. And I think it has
to do with, you know, my dad, God rest his soul.
He died a couple of years back. He was really
traumatized as a kid. I mean he had like a
like a Charles Dickens childhood. He was beaten, tortured, like

(04:37):
his dad would take off for weeks at a time,
leaving him to raise his younger sister when he was
like thirteen, and he had to like borrow food from neighbors.
I mean, it was really bad shit, and so that'll
mess with you, right, So he wasn't so good at
the whole intimacy thing. He was a very sweet man.
He was a soft natured man. He wasn't like hard

(05:00):
scrabble abusive, but he was very cut off. And when
my mom left him and me when I was about
a year and a half or two years old, I
didn't really see her again until I was about fifteen,
and then I was kind of raised by my step
mom and they just had a terrible marriage. And you know,

(05:21):
just to cut to the chase. When I was writing
my autobiography, The Bassoon King a couple of years back,
I asked him, I said, when did you know that
your marriage was bad and that you shouldn't have gotten married?
And they both said, like, oh, within about six months
of being married. And they stayed together for fourteen fifteen
more years. And then you know, I grew up a
member of the Bahai faith, which you know I've spoken

(05:43):
about a lot here and there, but one of the
things that has been most difficult for me to kind
of understand and rectify is that in the Bahih faith,
everything is about love. It's about peace, it's about unity,
it's about serving others and being open and serving humanity,
et cetera. And so we had a lot of talk
about love. We talked about love all the time, right,

(06:06):
but there was zero love in the room, right. It
was a really fractured So it's for a child, it's
incredibly gaslighting to kind of be like, we should all
love each other and serve each other and be kind
to one another. And then my parents weren't loving or
kind to each other. And I was kind of stuck
in the middle.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
Were you Were you aware of that in the moment?
Like were you aware?

Speaker 3 (06:27):
Okay, No, I was, And this is you know, and
this created in me a big a sense of anxiety, loneliness, alienation.
I didn't know what the hell was going on. It
didn't make any sense to me. Like I remember several
times my parents would be fighting and then we would
have a Bahai spiritual gathering at our house. So it

(06:47):
involved like saying prayers or singing or meditating or studying
you know, mystical works of various religious faiths or of
the Bahaigh writings themselves and like my stepmom like breaking
dishes in the sink and there's guests over, and then
her stomping through our tiny little living room about the
size of this podcast, both because we didn't have any money,

(07:09):
and going to the door and like slamming the door,
and sometimes you'd even hear screams from the other and
then my dad going okay, well shall we say some prayers?
And you know, I'm nine years old, and I'm like,
this is I know this isn't right right, but everyone's
pretending it's normal. Maybe this is normal. Is this how

(07:31):
other people act?

Speaker 1 (07:31):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (07:33):
So all of this is, you know, it's Christ for
the mill. And I've said it before and I'll say
it again. I don't think I play kind of weirdo
alienated characters as well. If I don't have that Petrie
dish of an experience growing up. It did give me
some mental health issues that I've kind of dealt with

(07:55):
through my adulthood. And that's been part of the journey too,
So you know, I see it all interwoven. I have
a psychological personal journey through therapy and recovery. I have
a journey a spiritual journey as a behigh and seeking
kind of spiritual meaning and purpose in my life. And

(08:15):
I'm an artist too, and I transform and I play characters,
and I draw on all of this complexity in history
and the playing of those characters, and all three of
those journeys are intricately intertwined.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, that's what I was going to ask you, like,
do you feel like your work as an artist, even young,
that you used that, even if you couldn't articulate that
things were maybe not quite right at home, as you said,
or that you weren't fully happy, do you feel like
you used the arts and creating characters and beginning your

(08:49):
sort of passionate journey along those lines you used that,
I think, so I think you use it.

Speaker 3 (08:56):
You don't, you're not even aware you're using it right
when you're starting out in acting.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
But I always played misfits better.

Speaker 3 (09:02):
I always played odd balls better, people that didn't fit in,
people that were kind of tortured, And so I definitely
drew on that. When I was in acting school, I
swiftly realized, like, oh, I'm incapable of playing someone well
balanced and popular, and you know, but the more twisted

(09:24):
the character the better I would do.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Right.

Speaker 1 (09:27):
So yeah, so you know, in a lot of ways,
I'm grateful.

Speaker 3 (09:32):
I wouldn't have I wouldn't have played quite true had
I had a you know, normal balanced childhood. It's all,
it's all part of the beauty and complexity of being
a human being.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah. I just had a conversation with Garrett Dilla Hunt.
Yes you're old Powell, Yeah, who described you as a
legend at you dub He was slightly younger, just behind you.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Legend yuh, but yes.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
A legend kind of a legend in the theater department there.
I mean, did you were you having success? Did you
feel that in yourself when you were in college?

Speaker 3 (10:13):
Not at all. So I started acting later in high
school when I went to this kind of very wealthy,
artsy high school called New Trier north of Chicago. And
I was really grateful because I had some amazing theater
teachers there. I got to be a part of some
incredible productions very early on, very young. And then I

(10:35):
went to Tufts University in Boston. I did a year.
I did a bunch of theater there and that was good,
and I did some plays and then my parents were
getting a divorce my dad and my stepmom and I,
you know, as messed up as their marriage was, I
was still very connected to them, right and I was
kind of having a breakdown as they were having a breakdown.
So I went back to Seattle. Then I ended up

(10:55):
at University of Washington, where I met my now wonderful wife,
Holiday Rhynhorn, and met Garrett, Dilla Hunt, Matt Ross, Lynn Shelton.
A lot of great artists were there at that time
and started doing plays, and I don't remember at all
being a legend Universon of Washington. I played, you know,
a couple of leads, but a couple of smaller parts

(11:16):
and some different plays, and I think Garrett was I
had been acting for a while and Garrett was literally
just starting. So I saw Garrett in his very first play,
and he was so talented, but he was so tense
I thought, I just thought, oh my god, he's going
to explode. The veins on his face are so tight,
you know. But he was just kind of ruggedly handsome,

(11:39):
other worldly, like kind of ethereal David Bowie cowboy from Yakima,
Washington and doing these experimental plays. But he was just terrific.
And then I went to n YU and then two
years later he went to the NYU Graduate Acting Program.
So we kind of followed each other and have both
had pretty nice careers. He's he's an outrageously talented actor.

(12:01):
I love his stuff. But I will say I just
wanted to tell this little story. So I had had
because your question was about the success that I had.
I had success in high school and in two colleges,
and I kind of thought, oh, maybe I'm really good
at this. Okay, I should go be a professional actor.

(12:22):
I should go audition. So I was in Seattle University
of Washington, and I like went down the university avenue
to the photography studio and I got I still have
some of these really cheesy headshots from nineteen eighty six,
and I'm like, you know, and and I typed up

(12:42):
a resume. I had my dad helped me type up
like the high school and college plays that I had done,
and I just started submitting myself for I looked in
the newspapers and you know, on the ads and stuff
like that, and I started submitting myself and I started
getting some auditions, and I auditioned around at a lot
of little, not community theaters, A semi professional and professional

(13:05):
theaters there, and after about four or five auditions, and
then I auditioned for the Orgon Shakespeare Festival and the
guy there was like, listen, you need to either come
to the organ Shakespeare Festival and like carry a spear
and understudy roles and do that for five or six years,
or you need to go to like New York and
get acting training. You should do one of those two things.

(13:28):
But it became really clear, like, oh shit, I am
the tiniest fish in a very big pond now, and
I'm really not good enough and I don't have the
skill set to be good enough to act professionally at
that point. And that was twenty nineteen or twenty at
that point, and I'm really grateful that I had the

(13:49):
wherewithal to kind of have that ability to kind of
see myself to kind of go like, oh, you're not
good enough yet, because some actors never have that right.
I kind of think that they're ready for Broadway and
there and there, they just they don't have it right.
So I was like, I need to train, And that's
when I went to NYU for actor training.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
When did you decide, I mean, this is slightly different
a different question. When did you decide it's what you
wanted to do. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:18):
So my best friend at the time, John Valades, and
we had grown up together since third grade and we
ended up going to NYU together. We went to University
of Washington together. We were like really good friends through
our youth. He was going to India for a year.
He decided to take a year off and just go
to India and he was going to do some service
projects and travel and he's like, come on, man, come

(14:38):
to India, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (14:40):
And I was like, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
And I was doing these plays and I was really
thinking about acting and whether or not to make it
a career. My parents were supportive but wary. You know,
how am I going to pay the bills?

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Sure?

Speaker 3 (14:53):
And I had a spiritual, transformative experience that made me
decide to commit one hundred percent. And that was I
was visiting my birth mother, who I was just getting
to know at the time in Boston. I think it
was over Christmas break, sophomore year of college, and the

(15:16):
movie version of A chorus Line was playing in a
little theater in Boston and I just walked in by myself.
I don't know I was wondering in Boston. I saw
it and I just went in. I watched it by myself. Now,
this is a legendarily bad movie version of a musical.
It's really and I knew even when I was watching it.
I was like, oh, this is terrible, but it's all

(15:39):
about acting and actors and it's how much I love
the theater and I really need this job, please God,
who am I? Anyway? Am I my resume? You know
those kind of songs. And I was there and I
just started sobbing and just tears were pouring down my

(15:59):
face and I was like heaving, supplet.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
That.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
And then the theater was empty because the movie was terrible.
And I went outside and it was sunset because i'd
seen a matinee and it was a red sunset. Snow
was falling through kind of a red sunset, and I
had like tears on my face and I was like,
that's it. I'm going for this. I'm all in.

Speaker 1 (16:25):
Wow, I'm all in.

Speaker 3 (16:28):
I know this is going to be a ten year commitment,
but the only way to do it is to just
completely fully commit. I want to be an actor in
the theater. And that's when I auditioned for these UH
training programs and I was lucky enough to get into
nWay NYU.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
For you, it was about theater. Yeah, and that's what
you wanted to do? Is that where? Because that was
for me, that's where I saw my life. That's what
I thought I was going to do forever and ever. Yeah. Amen?

Speaker 3 (16:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (17:00):
When did that start to change for you? Because your
career was successful, You're traveling around at major regional theaters
and working in New York. What for you made you
transition and decide to move to Los Angeles? And did
you view it as a career change? Because I did?
You did? I did? I didn't think about it until

(17:23):
I decided to fully change, which was say no to
any acting roles in the theater. I'm not doing that.
I'm going to move to Los Angeles and really recommit
myself to what I viewed as a career change. Was
it the same for you or no? It wasn't the
same for me. I mean I was so in love

(17:46):
with the theater and devoted to the theater, and I
had done you know, after three years of theater training
at NYU, I did nine or ten years of NonStop
theater in New York and regionals. I did a company
called the Acting Commpany, which was a tour bus and
truck touring company of Shakespeare. When I first got out
of college and I was on the road with Jeffrey Wright,

(18:07):
you know who's in West World and has been War
nominated and the French Dispatch Angels in America.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Yeah, he's an incredible actor. I was Demetrius, he was
Puck in The Midsummer Night's Dream. And we got back
at the end of a six month theater tour, just
exhausted but draggled. We go and pick up our mail
at the headquarters of the theater company and I opened
up my bank statement and I have like twenty three

(18:35):
hundred dollars in the bank after six months of work
on the road.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
And I was like, oh fuck.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
And then Jeffrey Wright's opening his mail and he's like, yeah, whoa.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
I'm like, jeff, what's going on. He's like, check it out.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
I got a residual check and he had this check
and it was for thirty five hundred dollars and he
had done two days on a Harrison Ford movie and
he got more money in rezials for those two days
that I had for six months of working and right
then and there is like in my head. I remember

(19:09):
it was like, Okay, this is.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
I got it. This is ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
You know, if I am ever going to pay off,
forget buying a house, if I'm ever going to pay
off my student loans, I have to do TV and film.
See actors in New York. And I do think there's
a you know, a handful of David Costable's when we
both know that do it all. And I love that
about New York and actors in London that they can
do a play here and a TV show here, and

(19:34):
a movie here and a commercial.

Speaker 1 (19:35):
Here and you get to do it all. You know,
LA doesn't really work like that.

Speaker 3 (19:40):
There's a very few theaters, they're far away, they don't
pay very well, etc. And it's hard to do that
anywhere else. A little bit in Chicago, maybe DC, a
couple places like that, but it's very hard to kind
of balance all of it. But I really was like,
I want to do enough television and films so that
I can come back to New York and get cast

(20:01):
in leeds in plays, right, because that's what was happening
all the time. You'd have like James Vanderbeek just did
Dawson's Creek and he got offered Hamlet, you know, because
he's been on Dawson's.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Creek, you know. And that's the reality of the theater.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
They got to sell tickets, right, So I was like,
I want a TV show so I can come back
and play Hamlet in New York. It hasn't really worked
out that way. I've been here in LA for over
twenty some years now.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
But now my son is going off to college.

Speaker 3 (20:30):
Can you believe it?

Speaker 1 (20:31):
Now?

Speaker 3 (20:32):
Walter was born. Walter was born during the Hot Girl,
Perse Girl episode of season one. That's right in a
really traumatic berth.

Speaker 1 (20:40):
Yes, you ran from set to go to the hospital
because there was a medical issue. Yes, I know.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
And now he's going off to college, so I'm going
to have more time to do theater.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
He's the physical embodiment of how long we all were together.
Just as he grow Oh, it was like, oh wow,
we've been together a long time. And now he's going
off to college, which is nuts.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Nuts yeah, just not nuts. Yeah. But once he's gone,
he's our only kid, and then I've got a little
more freedom, so I can go do theater for very
little money, for six months here or five months there.
So I'm very excited about about doing that because for me,
you know, I always have a little bit of the mystical,
spiritual nature in me, and for me, acting is about

(21:30):
there is a magic about transforming into characters. Yes, and
people always are like you know, Dwight gets so much
attention and focus about who I am as an actor
and as a person, and that's great. I'm so grateful.
Those nine years were magical, amazing, what a great character.

Speaker 1 (21:48):
The writing, the cast.

Speaker 3 (21:49):
The thought, the you know, the producers, everything like that,
the fans, the support, it's it's it's been incredible. But
people don't realize this, and a lot of people aren't
in the acting world. Like I played dozens of characters
before I played Dwight, and since I've finished Dwight, I've

(22:11):
played another couple dozen characters. So for me, it's about
transforming into characters and telling stories. I played Hamlet in school.
I did Eugene O'Neil at the Arena stage. I did
Philadelphia Here I come at the Guthrie.

Speaker 1 (22:24):
I did you know?

Speaker 3 (22:25):
I did Shakespeare tours. I've done lots of little I
played the creepy guy in Supermarket and CSI.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
But they're all characters.

Speaker 3 (22:35):
They're just like you know, I hope that when I die,
people will Yes, I look at Dwight, but be like, wow, look.

Speaker 1 (22:41):
At all crazy different characters.

Speaker 3 (22:44):
This guy played like this was a panopoly of a
very different characters, dozens and dozens and dozens over his life.
And I love that act of transformation. It's so satisfying
to me to just to build and develop and play
a character and then play a completely different character, you know,

(23:05):
than the month after.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, I feel I really feel this way that for
you and I, I think we have a unique bond
and excitement about what you just talked about, like actually
creating the physicality, the inner life, the external differences from

(23:28):
ourselves and melding that with who we are. That that
for me as well, that is really my favorite thing
in the world. Yeah, Like just it's I keep using
the word transformation.

Speaker 3 (23:40):
Yes, you walk different, you speak different, you think different,
you see the world different, you have a different kind
of energy. All of these things need to transform to
create a character. Now, of course I'm it's the basic
building blocks of Rain Wilson. So I'm going to be
using this big, weird ungainly body, and I'm going to
always see things through a certain lie, so you're always

(24:00):
going to see Rain Wilson in those characters. And that's
also a magical thing. But that's that's what I love
about the theater. And I think why, you know, people
have always loved the theater and they love to see
their favorite actors transform.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
Do you resent that people only want to see you
be Dwight?

Speaker 3 (24:25):
Sometimes I do to be really honest, you know, to
be perfectly frank. It's just like I'll do an independent
film that I worked my ass off on and play
a villain or you know, played something completely different than me,
you know, unhinged person or something you know, really funny
or whatever, and I'll promote it on like social media.

(24:48):
They'll be like, hey, Dwight, Yeah, yeah, Dwight and exactly
and it's and it's it's like, guys, I get it,
I got it. You love the show.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
I do too.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
It's beautiful, But also can you respect me as an
artist and that I'm trying to do some other things
here too. But at the end of the day, I've
been really lucky because I even think, like the last
ten years since I got out of the Office. I've
done a lot of really cool stuff. I did this
show Backstrom, No one really watched it. I did the

(25:20):
show Utopia.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
Backstrom is the role you stole from me. That is God.
I wanted to play that role so bad, and they
just really wanted you. I wanted to play that role.
I mean we've discussed this. It's not in a long time. Yeah,
but literally, when I look at your at your at
your when I looked at your sheet and I see Backstrom,
I'm like, motherfucker that one. That one's still yeah. Yeah,

(25:44):
there's another version of Backstrom. There's another.

Speaker 3 (25:47):
A lot of maybe it would have worked and been
better and stayed on the air with you as the h.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
No I as the cop.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
That's true. Well, but the point I'm making is that
you know this show Utopia and Amazon. I did Harry
Mudd on Star Trek and a bunch of independent films
and some theater, and like, I really love the actor's
life that I've had post office. Yeah, people haven't given
a shit about any of it.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Like, no one is like what, But.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
It's been really Uh, it's been fun for me. And
these have been some really great, satisfying characters. And then
part of me has thought recently, like, oh, this is
the life I always wanted. Like, I'm living the life
I always wanted. I'm getting to play all of these
cool roles.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
People haven't really vibed with them.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
That's okay.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
I just started watching Launched today. I know this is
not going to come out today, but Geography of Bliss, Yeah,
is there a part of you? Is there a conscious
thought within you to show yourself? We're all performing all
the time. We're performing with our family, with our friends,

(27:20):
with our coworkers, depending on what the relationship is, right,
I mean, like everyone, not actors. Everyone is performing in
one way or the other. Is there a part of
you that wanted to show yourself really in Rain Wilson,
I mean you are Rain Wilson in Geography of Bliss.
Was there a part of you that wanted that? You know?

Speaker 3 (27:39):
It just it was not something that I wanted. It's
just this kind of world of like people want to
know about the guy who played Dwight, and so I
talk about my life story and people really resonated with
me talking about mental health issues and that was really
people like oh wow, and they that because it's such

(28:01):
a big deal right now, for young people, this mental
health epidemic that young people are going through, it's just
it's staggering. It's preposterous, it's deadly. It's so any kind
of celeb says, hey, I have struggled, people are like,
tell me more, because it really can help people. So
when I saw like, oh, me sharing my story is
helping people, and so I started sharing it more. And

(28:24):
your first question is like, Wow, you're so upfront about
sharing this stuff. And you know, maybe it's because I said, like,
I've been in therapy, so I talk about it every week.
It's not that big of a deal to me. It's
just stuff that I work on, right, And I'm very
blessed with some kind of character trait in me that
I never just kind of settle. I'm always trying to

(28:46):
dig deeper. I want to get to know myself better.
I want to get to know the universe better. I
want to figure out why we're alive deeper. I just
have an insatiable curiosity around that stuff I'm not able to.
I wish I kind of could just be like, hey, bro, like, yeah,
a mellow whatever. Maybe it's maybe it's being wired with
that anxiety that I talked about as a kid. So

(29:07):
just more and more over the years, talking about myself,
telling my stories, people being interested writing about myself and
the bassoon King, and now in this new book Soul Boom,
and then people knowing me as Dwight. It's and part
of me is kind of like, I guess I'm a
celebrity now. I'm like Suzanne Summers doing her diet books
and her aerobus eyes or something like that. It's like, right,

(29:29):
So this is the first time I've done a big
hosting thing, kind of being myself yourself on a TV show.
So it's hopefully I can do it all. I'll hopefully
still keep acting and also get to be myself. I
don't know, we'll see what happens well.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Geography of Bliss on the Peacock. You were nice enough
to give me some episodes. I didn't wake up at
two o'clock this morning and start binging them. I love
it because you were embracing the office in the show.
I mean several times I almost like like I almost
like drew my breath in because it's not you. This
is not something that you do. Is talk about Dwight,

(30:06):
and I feel like they exchange the exchange with the
Bulgarian cab driver where you start hummaking the theme song,
like trying to plug him into like who you know who?

Speaker 2 (30:18):
Right?

Speaker 3 (30:18):
You know?

Speaker 1 (30:20):
There was something so refreshing about that and an openness
to your journey of trying to find happiness. How did
you choose where you were going to go? Yeah, so
it was a crazy story.

Speaker 3 (30:34):
My manager at the time just got an email from
this young producer who said, Hey, I got the rights
to this book called The Geography of Bliss that was
a bestseller about this journalist going around the world trying
to figure out what made people happy in various cultures.
And he said, I think this would be a great
travel documentary series, and I think Rain would be perfect
for it. I had spoken a little bit about some

(30:54):
mental health stuff with me and my search for well
being and meaning in my life, and you know, nine
times out of ten, I'm not going to respond to
anything that comes in just cold call like that. But
I was like, he's kind of riot.

Speaker 1 (31:09):
This is interesting.

Speaker 3 (31:10):
So I sat down with him and this other young
producer they're both like twenty eight years old, Casey and Evan,
and just totally vibed with them. I read the book.
It was great. It's just just one of those things
that fell together in such a beautiful way. And then
we brought on Radical Media, which is a really top
production house and great showrunner Melissa Wood and great director
in Niharika Desai, and we pitched it around and Peacock

(31:36):
bought it, and then it was like where are we
going to go? At first we were going to go
to Finland and Moldova, and then a little thing happened,
which is the invasion of the Ukraine. So Finland borders Russia, okay,
and Moldova borders Ukraine, and they were like, jeez, we

(31:56):
can't because what if we go shoot there and then
six months later they've been invaded.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
And we can't use the footage because it would just
be weird. So like eugh.

Speaker 3 (32:05):
So our Finland alternative was Iceland. Our Moldova alternative was Bulgaria.
We could tell a similar kind of story about those
because Moldova is the unhappiest place in Finland is the
happiest place, so we went to like the second happiest place,
Iceland and the second unhappiest place, Bulgaria. And then we
really wanted to showcase Africa of course, and Ghana has

(32:26):
some amazing statistics about it's optimism. It's one of the
most optimistic places on the planet where people really do
believe that in ten or twenty years their children are
going to have it way better and that they're going
to build a better and better life there. And in
a lot of ways they have. Ghana has been one
of the great success stories of the world, you know,
economically and educationally. It's a beautiful culture, English speaking, which

(32:50):
is very helpful. I highly recommend anyone go to Ghana.
It's so much fun, food's great, people are wonderful. And
then Thailand has a spiritual compone it with its Buddhism
that will be very intriguing to us. And then here's
a funny story. We were gonna go we were gonna
shoot in Ghana, and then we were going to go
to Dubai and do an episode called like Can Money

(33:13):
by You Happiness, And the day before we flew to
Dubai Real Housewives of Dubai. It's a show aired in Dubai,
and Dubai has a royal family, and the royal family
saw Real Housewives of Dubai and they were flabbergasted and
incensed at all the drunken bacchanalia, backstabbing shenanigans of those

(33:38):
real housewives of Dubai.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
And so they shut down all productions.

Speaker 3 (33:42):
We literally showed up in Dubai with our camera.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Bags and our producers.

Speaker 3 (33:46):
And they're like, sorry, your permit's been pulled. So we
had to like shift. So our final episode we did
back in Los Angeles, which I really like. And the
final episode is about you know, Ken rain else and
find happiness back in La. Can he come back to
La and you know, put into practice what he.

Speaker 1 (34:06):
Learned out in the world. So would you do more? Oh?

Speaker 3 (34:10):
Yeah, Oh my god, I've said it before, I'll say
it again, Like I never thought i'd have a better
job than the office, but getting paid to travel the
world and talk to people about happiness and wellbeing and
meaning is just, oh my god, it's so awesome.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
It's so great. Do you feel like you were changed?
Were you able to forget the cameras and you're an
intensely interesting and interested person. Were you able to open
your be open enough while shooting the show to really

(34:48):
change and have discoveries?

Speaker 3 (34:50):
Yeah, that's a great question. It's a weird thing to
have a camera pointed at you and like, hey, go
have a discussion with this taxi driver about happiness. And
you're like, okay, it's it's an interesting challenge. And I
got self conscious a lot, and like, am I saying
the right thing?

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Is?

Speaker 3 (35:07):
This? Is this right? But I would say over the
course of the show, I definitely loosened up and had
a good time and was really able. And remember I
was connecting with the people even when the cameras weren't
rolling too so. But I do feel like I was changed.
And the takeaway that I have from Geography of Bliss
is really pretty simple. When I was writing my book,

(35:29):
I came across this very famous study called the Grant
Study out of Harvard University, and it followed three hundred
men over eighty years from like nineteen thirties on about
happiness and well being and what it means to live
like a good life. And they studied every aspect of

(35:49):
you know, family life, divorces, health, mental health, spirituality, exercise, travel, income,
et cetera, on and on, and they boil it down
to one thing, and one thing only to which is
a good life, and that is community and connection. That's
all that It's about and I think we've learned this

(36:10):
in COVID. We need to stay connected, We need community.
We thrive in relation to one another. We don't thrive
kind of on our own in our bubble steering at
our phones.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Right.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
We thrive and this is part of the mental health epidemic.
We thrive in community and connection. And that's what they
that's what eighty years of study of hard data by
the top scientists, you know, social psychologists in the world
arrived at. And that's what I arrived at. It's pretty simple,

(36:43):
it's pretty obvious. But seeing these incredible thriving communities, whether
it's a tribe or a family, or a work collective
or people that love to do polar plunges together or
you know, have a band together, but humans thrive in connectivity.
And so that really is like, oh, I need to

(37:04):
lean into that more in my life because you know,
I have groups of friends here, here, and there, but
it's time for me to lean into lean into that
because that's where the greatest and deepest satisfaction lies.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
Isn't that so interesting? Because connection and community and how
much joy and happiness people find in the office. Yeah,
because at its core, we were a community, and we
were connected as characters but also as people. Yeah, and

(37:41):
that palpable energy I believe because I'm told goes out
into the world and makes people happy. I mean, that's
what I've said many times. The greatest gift for me
that the show gave me is thats Asuals. The second

(38:02):
greatest thing that the show gave me, no, is when
someone comes up and I always describe it this way.
It's not that they're they want their tell they're telling
me how much the show means. It's that they have
an overwhelming feeling of need to communicate to me how

(38:23):
much the show means, right, like they are.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Sometimes that can be a bit much though, right, Sometimes
when you're at an event, it's settings, it's setting, it's
all settings. The twelfth the twenty seventh person like grabbed
your arm and been like, no.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
You understands there is settings, but that but that's but
that's what you're talking about, Like that is that is
them wanting this connection and community that they found from
the show. But you're absolutely right to bring that up.

Speaker 3 (38:54):
And I just want to say that what you're talking about, like,
so you me, John Jenna, Bjy Angela, the whole Gang, Oscar.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
The list goes on and on, like.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
We loved each other. Yeah, and there was a joy
that Greg Daniels helped create the environment for that and
the casting and then that that joy and that love
may not have been between Dwight and Kevin and Angela
and Ryan and whatnot, but you can it bleeds in,

(39:28):
you feel it, and people can tell. And then that
is what people are responding to at the end of
the day. And you know, Pam says to end the series,
you know, there's beauty in the small things. Isn't that
what it's really all about? And I think that's what people.
People aren't watching thirty Rock over and over again. Yeah,
you know, they're not watching a lot of different shows
over and over again, but they come back to the

(39:50):
office for that. And do you remember there was a
director I have to look up his name. I can't
remember his name.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
We were in season like seven, and we would come
in in the morning.

Speaker 3 (39:59):
Laughing, hugging, high fiving, kissing each other, you know, tickling
each other. We and he's like, what the fuck is
going on?

Speaker 1 (40:08):
You've been seven years and you guys are acting this
way with each other?

Speaker 3 (40:12):
Like he goes you don't understand. I just came off
the set of Desperate Housewives and half of the cast
won't talk to the other half of the cast, and
they won't come out of their trailers until this person
is like on the set and they don't want to
cross that person, and they this person won't do scenes
with this other person, and it's like and there's so
you hear that about so many different TV shows.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Yeah, anyway, do you think travel brings happiness experiencing places,
whether there are happy places or unhappy places.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Yeah, I think travel is one of my favorite things,
and I think it's uh, it's beautiful. It works on
a lot of different levels. Like you you're interacting with
a different physical environment, right, it's an advent. You're out
of your comfort zone, so you're your your senses and
your brain is kind of firing in a whole different
way because you're you know, you're in Greece, or you're
in a mountain range, or you're in London or a

(41:04):
different city or a different language or whatever. So that's
all really exciting. I think the important thing about travel
is a lot of Americans, not just Americans, people from
all of the Western world kind of want to travel
and have an experience that's very similar to their home life.
So they travel and they go to a resort that
has a buffet and has the same foods you know

(41:25):
that they eat at home, and they sit by a pool,
and then they watch HBO on their iPads and then
they go back and that's their vacation. Now, there's nothing
wrong with having a relaxing vacation for hardworking folks, But
if you're traveling to different cultures, it's so important to
embed with the culture. Whenever you can do to take
a tour, go with guides, visit with a family, you know,

(41:48):
go on an adventure, like try and speak the language
and respect a culture. And that's when travel really comes alive.

Speaker 1 (41:58):
That is such a great point because I travel quite
a bit, and there was a period of time that,
like my first question when going to my hotel was
where's the nearest Starbucks? Like where, because in the morning,

(42:18):
I'm gonna want coffee, yeah, and I'm gonna want And
by the way, folks, I'm surprised this is a small one.

Speaker 3 (42:26):
Brian walks around with a big like ice car and
he will nurse.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
He will nurse something like this, Like I don't know
how he does, like six hours. Yeah, it'll take him
some ice in.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
There, and he's just all day. You just see Brian
like swirling his little ice. It's a little that's for
the people listening in the audio.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
But it's not a Starbucks. It's not it's not a Starbucks.
I'm not saying I don't go to Starbucks. And Starbucks please,
if you need to spend your AD dollars anywhere, please
off the beat is available to you. But my point
is because I wanted the same, right it was. It
wasn't about Starbucks, but it was about well, Starbucks are everywhere,
and I know what that tastes like. Sure, and I

(43:11):
want the same to your point, and now I try
to do the opposite, like what is the what is
a local coffee shop? And sometimes it's awful and sometimes
it's mind blowingly amazing because coffee shops are like they
they reflect in a lot of ways, especially independent coffee

(43:33):
shops like a community. It's different the food, the way
the coffee is and anyway, I think what you say
is really important because you're right, and through your experiences
on geography Bliss, we see you do that over and
over and over immersing yourself into the culture and to
the people.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, it's I'm so blessed. It's I'm so fortunate to
be able to travel in that way because they they
hook up families for me to stay with, and people
for me to spend the day with and have and
eat meals with and walk through the woods with, and
so I get to go much deeper and have made
some really delightful friends and connections.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
There's another part that though, that I really liked, which
was you connecting in these different places with at times
people that you knew already. The actor in Iceland, iked
Sarria Olifson. Yes, it's fun to see you relax in

(44:34):
a way with people you have a familiarity. Obviously, the
people you don't know, that's amazing too. But seeing you
with these people that you have met over your life
and now spending time with them in their homeland or
the place that they live now, that was really fun
for me. M Yeah, that was great. It was a

(44:56):
great addition. Did that just happen or was that planned?
Were you like, oh, I know someone here in Bulgaria.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah, I knew this psychologist in Bulgaria through the Bahaigh faith. Community,
which was really interesting and the producers were very resistant,
and I was like, we got to talk to her
because she's been living in America for thirty years, but
she's Bulgarian, so she really knows and she's a psychologist,
she really knows the Bulgarian psyche Like, well, trust me,

(45:25):
we're going to want to talk to her. And it
was a key interview there to really understand the Bulgarians.
And then dari It does the same thing. They become translators.
Anthony Bourdain did it so beautifully. God rest his soul,
like the people that he would meet and the chefs
and the guides and stuff. And you'd go back to
Vietnam and meet the guy that had been there twenty

(45:46):
years earlier when he had been to Vietnam, and it's
such a great entree into culture and food and connection.

Speaker 1 (45:55):
Yeah, you go deeper, though, and I feel I feel
you searching for the answers to these questions. I mean,
you know, I mean, you've written books about life, life's
big questions that there truly is no answer, but that

(46:15):
searching that to me is really compelling, Like the searching
for something as opposed to an experience, which there are
two different things, and Anthony god Rest his soul Yes
was brilliant. I felt like that was more having an
experience this. I feel you searching for something, which to

(46:41):
me is more interesting.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Oh good, thanks.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, you founded soul Pancake and now you have your

(47:07):
new book, soul Boom. How have you? How is the
questions that you're looking to answer changed from your time
with soul Pancake. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
So soul Pancake was a digital media company, mostly a
YouTube channel. We worked and created a lot of short
form video content and a lot of social media content
about life's big questions. But it was always with an
aim to inspire and uplift and bring people together. That
was kind of the focus of the platform itself. We

(47:39):
ended up selling the company to Participant Media, so it's
kind of been folded into what they do as a
media company and a film production studio. So sol Boom
is a little bit different because this is me kind
of writing a book on big spiritual ideas about the

(47:59):
meaning of life. As I say in the book, I'm
throwing a bunch of spiritual spaghetti at the wall and
we'll see what sticks. And I talk about life and death.
I talk about consciousness, the journey of the soul, sacredness God.
I have a chapter on God called the Notorious Good,
and then I talk about can we use spiritual tools

(48:21):
for social transformation? How can we use these big, deep,
rich spiritual ideas that have been in every faith tradition
on the planet from the dawn of time? Can we
use those ideas to help us transform collectively? Because we're
hurting so much right now, there's so much disunity, there's
so much venom, toxic social media and partisanship. How can

(48:45):
we learn from the Bible, How can we learn from
the baghavad Gita, from the Torah, you know, from the
damapatas of the Buddha, And can we use those tools
for a kind of We think a lot about spirituality
as personal transformation, like, Oh, I'm going to I'm gonna pray,
I'm gonna meditate, I'm gonna read holy words, I'm gonna
try and be a better person. That's that's part of

(49:06):
our spiritual path. But can we also use them for
social transformation? So it's a it's a big idea book,
and at the same time it's I try and make
it funny and light and readable at the same time.
It's not a dissertation or.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
Anything like that. No, it's beautiful and I feel like
with Soul Pancake you are searching for the answers to
life's big questions. This to me feels deeply personal, much
more personal to me in this book and exploring the

(49:40):
questions that are in the world today through your own
specific lens, which is always the case, but being so
open again and sharing your past experience gives it just
a real power. Wow.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Thank you so much. That's that's very kind. I appreciate that.
I I tried to share my experience whenever I could.
I just find that people are more receptive to ideas
when you share it personally, you know, when you make
it say here's what I went through. You know, my
chapter on death, which is called Death and How to Live,
it is framed by the death of my father, which happened,

(50:18):
you know, six months into COVID and he died of
heart disease at age seventy nine. And it was, you know,
like I said, my mom took off when I was,
you know, a toddler, so my main parental bond was
with my dad, and I'm you know, most bonded to
someone who was really really bad at intimacy because he
had been so traumatized. So that was a conundrum but

(50:42):
heartbreaking nonetheless, So I wanted to really share deeply, like
what I was going through, what I was feeling. I
tell a very comedic story in it about we were
preparing the body for burial in a Bahigh tradition, which
is very similar to a Jewish tradition, where you wash
the body and wrap the body in preparation for burial,
and the funeral home didn't have any nice bowls. It

(51:05):
had like some tupperware containers or a teapot, and that
we were up against it because the funeral was starting soon,
and I had to run to a target to buy
glass bowls. It was the middle of a heat wave,
and I'm pouring sweat and it's COVID and I'm sobbing
snots running down my nose, and I'm trying to find
glass bowls to wash my dead father's body. So we

(51:28):
have a good.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Time along the way. You talk about your behigh faith,
You have always been very open about that you left
in your twenties and then returned to it later on.
How important was that for you? The leaving and the
coming back and what brought you back.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Well, it's a key story for me. It's maybe the
most important story of my life. Was that kind of
twelve year journey where I left the ba High Faith
to go to New York to be an actor. I
just wanted to do theater. I didn't want to think
about religion, spirituality, God certainly not morality. I wanted to

(52:12):
kind of party and do what I wanted to do
when I wanted to do it. And a lot of
kids do this, you know, this is a very common things.
Probably probably eighty percent of kids who grew up in
some spiritual tradition, when they go off to college or
go off to live in the city and have a life,
they jettison their faith, the faith of their childhood. So

(52:33):
I'm not special in this regard. I think what happened
for me, however, is I started really coming up against
some of these mental health issues that I've been talking about.
That's when my anxiety kicked in. I used to have
I mean, I can't even tell you how crippling these
anxiety attacks were.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
That I would have.

Speaker 3 (52:50):
I mean I would fall on the floor, shaking and sweating,
and I was like I'm having a heart attack. I'm
going to die. I'm literally dying. Came so close on
a half a dozen occasions of calling nine one one.
I mean, I was just and then all the many

(53:10):
anxiety attacks I was having, and then depression, addiction issues,
and and this forced me to reinvestigate spirituality. Okay, it's
interesting because I had a conversation with BJ and and
BJ was very frank. He's like, that was great that
you had that it forced you go on a spiritual path.

(53:32):
But what would you say someone like me, Like, I'm
interested in spirituality and I'm struggling, and I want to
get to know it more and I want to figure
out my life a in a But my life is
fine right now. You know, I'm I'm fine, I'm functioning,
I'm pretty happy, I'm doing great projects. So how do
you how do you do that? And you know, I

(53:53):
don't know what the answer is. I mean, I think
it's to just get more curious and to read a
little bit, which will fuel that curiosity. But I was
really fortunate in a way, like I kind of hit
bottom so bad in a number of ways in my twenties,
and I was really dissatisfied that it forced me to

(54:13):
look at spirituality again, and I read a lot of
the holy books of the world, and I studied and
journeyed and read and journaled and did some therapy. And
because I felt in my bones like I think that
there's probably a spiritual solution to this misery that I'm in,
and that by jettisoning my religion and my spirituality, I

(54:37):
have done myself a disservice. And I bet this will
lead to greater happiness and fulfillment if I re explore
that dimension. It was a very long time coming. I
mean I was still exploring early on in the office,
but came back to the faith, the bhy faith from
my childhood, which has brought me and my wife a

(54:58):
lot of solace and connection.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
Yeah. The themes that you explore in the book, they
seem to have a lot in common with geography of bliss,
self awareness, self improvement, self acceptance. What do you see
as a relationship between soul Boom and geography of Bliss
And is there an is there an overall message or

(55:24):
are you trying to just put people on their own journey? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Great, great, great question. So I knew the book was
coming out. What month is this May April, so it
was coming out in late April. And then Peacock was like, Hey,
good news, We're gonna we're going to release Geography of
Bliss in September. And I was like, wait, whoa, whoa, whoa,
whoa what? No, no, No, I have a book coming
out in April that's about this theme and I'm going

(55:49):
to be promoting it. I'm going to be out there
on the road. I'd love to talk about Geography of
Bliss as well. And they were great about it. And
I also said, and also think about it, like, think
about releasing the show right before people are trying traveling
over the summer. It's a post COVID show. It's kind
of launching into the summer traveling the world. People are
going on vacations, like, and they're thinking about being more expansive.

(56:10):
Maybe they've traveled traveling for the first time, like it all.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
And they were great about it, and Peacock was like,
you know what, you're right, then Snell, there you go.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
They shifted the release date.

Speaker 1 (56:21):
They said that, they said, you're right.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
I have to say they've been an amazing partner and
team on this and it's funny Brian Sidebar. There was
this article in the Onion Avy Department and it was
like Peacock is using its former sitcom stars to have
documentary series and they they they mentioned some other actors

(56:47):
that had been on like Parks and Rec and some
other shows that were doing some kind of documentary series
on Peacock and they it was like the article was
like this scandalous article, like we've exposed this.

Speaker 1 (56:59):
It's like, duh, what do you think? Like they're trying
to get people, They're trying to get people to watch
the Peacock.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
But not only that, Like there are office fans turning
to Peacock and they like Rain. They tend to like
Rain Wilson and then they turn it on and then
they see that I've got this show, and it's it's
win win, Like it's that's how television works.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
It's how it's always worked, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Like, you know, uh, TV stars of CBS or TV
stars of HBO do other shows on that. You know, Uh,
Patricia Arcat is doing a new show on Apple after
severance because they have a nice relationship and people that
go to Apple like Patricia Arcat. It's oh my god,
give me a break. So, so what is it about it?

(57:45):
To me, It's all about you. You you brought it
up before. It's all about asking questions. I'm not a guru.
I don't have any answers. I'm a schlubby, chubby, weird guy.
I still struggle. I've learned a few things, but I'm
not presenting myself as like some kind of guru, know
it all self help guy, like a lot of folks

(58:06):
do on social media and whatnot. I'm just I'm a
fellow journeer. And let's dig into these big ideas. Let's
look at what makes us happy. Let's examine cultures around
the world and where we can find great well being
from them and have a blast along the way. And
in the book, like, let's dig into what it means

(58:27):
to be alive? And is there a God? And do
we have a soul? And how do we find what
is sacred and holy in our lives? And what is
the miracle of consciousness? And how do science and spirituality intersect?
And where do we you know, where do we go
from here as a society. I don't have the exact
answers for it, but it all dovetails. So the universe

(58:49):
seems to be pushing me in this direction to be
telling these kind of stories. Who knows what's next the book.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
If you haven't gotten it, get it read it. I've
known Rain twenty twenty plus. I mean, you know, I
was at least aware of you for much longer, but
known each other twenty plus years.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
We have to talk about three sisters a little bit.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
Oh yeah, three sisters. Well, let me finish this legitimate
pitch for the book. I learned about Rain by reading
this book, and Rain is a very open person. Rain
is I've said this before, I'll say it again. I'll
say it till the day I die. He is the lewdest,
most inappropriate, most If there was a Dundee Award for

(59:39):
most likely to be sent to HR in today's culture,
it is Rain Wilson, no question. But at the same time,
the kindest, the person that everyone would go to if
something were really happening in their lives that they needed

(01:00:00):
vice and input in. Thoughtful, always curious, and the book
reflects that amazingly.

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
You're so kind.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Thank you. That's very nice to see. Yes, well, I
mean it. And as for geography of Bliss, it's funny,
it's funny and will make you think about your own life.
And it's beautifully shot, by the way, which you had
nothing to do with. So you But it's my parents

(01:00:29):
went to Ice. I've been to. I have been to
the Reikievik airport on a layover, so I spent you know,
three hours in the middle of the night. Never thought
of ever leaving the airport or going there again seeing it.
Even just the shots of you guys driving around, the's incredible,

(01:00:49):
is unbelievably beautiful.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
It's I've been five times. That's one thing that was
a lie we told in the show. It made it
seem like I was going there for the first time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
I had been four times before. Oh, just as a person,
just as a as a traveler.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
Yeah, liars, and I love that play.

Speaker 1 (01:01:09):
I would.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
I was very seriously talking to my wife about, like
what would it take for us to go.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Live here because it is recently or years ago?

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
Two? Three years ago?

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Yeah no, but not when you were just there for
the show.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
No, okay, But it's the black sand beaches, glaciers, volcanoes.
It's I say, like our last trip there as a family,
we went and like parked under like a five hundred
foot waterfall in our camper van and like we're cooking
dinner and looking out, like it's pretty nice, pretty nice waterfalls.

(01:01:44):
Like we've seen way bigger. We've seen the three thousand
foot waterfalls and like coming off of the side of
a glacier and the you know, Onyx Cliffs and this one,
and it was like, wait a minute, I'm parked under
a five hundred foot waterfall and I'm like it's like
ho hum, you know, it's it's incredible, super fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Yeah. Three Sisters, Three Sisters.

Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
So before the Office and in the early days of
the Office, I was directing one of my very favorite plays,
Checkov's Three Sisters, and I met Brian through some mutual friends.
I had seen you in a play, although in a
small role in Minneapolis, and I was like, oh, this
guy's perfect for Andre and three Sisters. And we did

(01:02:30):
this kind of ongoing workshop production that we were The
plan was we were going to perform the whole play
in people's living rooms. We got to perform the first
couple acts a couple of times. You were so great
in the role, just perfect combination of heartbreak and comedy,
and it was really fun and arduous because we would
just meet on Sunday mornings and like rehearse for three

(01:02:52):
hours every single week and do little chunks of it.
And we all had to like pitch in some money, like, hey,
everyone put in twenty bucks to go at the rehearsal
space and stuff. But you were you were great and
sad and beautiful and I hope you'll do more theater.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Oh my gosh, thank you. Those were really fun times. Yeah.
I was trying to think. I couldn't put the time
table together, so it was literally before the office. Yeah,
and then and then.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
And then early on, like when we had shot the
pilot we had started it. Yeah, and then we shot
the five more episodes of the first season and we
kept going. By the time we were into like the
second season, other people moved from LA to New York
and we were kind of losing the cast and stuff,
and then we got really busy and it it kind
of petered away.

Speaker 1 (01:03:40):
Yeah, you should produce it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:42):
Should should. You're a little old f andre now, sorry,
am I.

Speaker 1 (01:03:48):
It depends on how old everyone else is. Really.

Speaker 3 (01:03:52):
Yeah, you've got to feel sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:03:56):
Sorry twenty years ago. It was twenty years ago. Yeah, Wow,
it's always great to see you. I'm gonna come by
the farm, Come.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
By the farm. We've got pigs to pat and a
pea hen.

Speaker 1 (01:04:08):
Pigs, a pea hen, a donkey.

Speaker 3 (01:04:11):
Still, yeah, the donkeys that is at my wife's where
she has her horses.

Speaker 1 (01:04:16):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
And then we have a donkey named Chili Beans, a
rescue donkey. He's adorable, chili beans. Oh, he's so huggable.
He's got fuzzy, big ears. It's like if you've ever
nuzzled a donkey. And that's not a dirty euphemism, but
I would love for you to nuzzle my donkey.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
I'm n even bushes chili beans. Chili beans, you can
make chili out of him. Oh, that's see. Dark, It
all comes around, that's all dark. It sure does, Rain.

Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
Wilson, everybody, bomb Gardner, everybody bringing it week after week.

Speaker 1 (01:04:50):
Like we just looked. I'm gonna look into the camera.
Oh we didn't do any takes to the camera. A
hundred and four thirty one of these puppies you are,
this is number one forty one, which is anyone, which
is a significant number, not at all?

Speaker 3 (01:05:07):
Could you have called me like it's not in the
first like thirty or forty, because.

Speaker 1 (01:05:12):
Hello, well, no. I mean. The funny thing is is
the very first time I ever sat down for a
podcast interview with me was with you at the old
iHeart studios in Hollywood. And I called you and I
was like, hey, I'm thinking about putting this thing in
oral history of the Office together. And you were, as
always like very accommodating with restrictions. You said, absolutely, I

(01:05:40):
have to do it next week because I'm gonna maybe
shoot this movie and the show and I'm gonna be busy,
so next week, so you don't even know any of
this scrambling started, no what we the team hadn't done
a brief at that point. We didn't know what the
hell we were doing. And I was like, oh my god,
we have to have rain. So we scramble. So we

(01:06:01):
go to IHEARTA, we go to iHeart.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
I thought you were like in production.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
No, this was like no, this was like I'm making calls, Hey,
this is what I'm thinking about doing, and yeah, you
were just very clearly like, aps, whatever you need, but
next week only. It was sent. And we sat down
that day over two hours and I left the room
and you left and you said hello, nice to everybody.

(01:06:26):
You left and everyone was like, we have a show,
we have one. You didn't suck, meaning me, like, you
didn't suck, guys.

Speaker 3 (01:06:35):
You guys did it. You did it right, I mean
you did. You interviewed everybody, every and you spent hours
and you you got into the minutia and the seasons
and the and the pre the office. How'd you sell?
I mean it was it was an incredible accomplishment. It
became like a cultural document and it was awesome. You
guys just kicked ass with that thing.

Speaker 1 (01:06:56):
Man, it was. It was beautiful. Thank you, well, thank you.
And now we sit back together. Oh and let's we
won't it won't be, bestie, it won't be.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
We used to play tennis together. And then you just
went that's a dark side and just went completely over
into golf.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Horrible, horrible man. Yeah, thanks Rayin, Thanks Brian, talk to
you later, Hie, everybody bye. Off The Beat is hosted
and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive

(01:07:35):
producer Ling Lee. Our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our
producers are Liz Hayes, Hannah Harris, and Emily Carr. Our
talent producer is Ryan Papa Zachary and our intern is
Sammy Katz. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by
the one and only Creed Bratton and