December 10, 2025 • 45 mins
This week, S.E. talks to Chris Noth, known for his memorable roles on Sex and the City and Law and Order. Chris talks about those iconic projects, but SE and Chris go deep on childhood and the loss of his father, how a boarding school in upstate New York saved him, what he's learned about mental health and men, acting regrets, and what Me Too taught him.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
As an actor include all the TV shows that I've
done in New York, and I'm so lucky to have
been in them. But as an artist, I don't think
those made it for me. I feel like I have
more to give.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote. Boy,
do we have a good one for you today? Let
me take you back. There was a very short era.
It was a moment in time. It was a flicker
of light that I was the exact right age, at
the exact right time, in the exact right place to
(00:41):
be right in the middle of it. And it was magic.
From nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and four, if
you were a twenty somethingter professional woman living in Manhattan,
you saw your life, or maybe the life you wanted,
depicted on screen in a hit television show with much
better fashion than you could ever afford. Sex and the
(01:03):
City came out when I was finishing college, and then
I moved to the city to become a writer. No surprise,
it made a big impact on my life. And if
you lived in the city, it was like a guidebook.
It told us what restaurants to go to, which clubs
and bars to go to, where to shop, where to live,
where to look for love? What kind of guys to avoid?
(01:24):
I bought my first Manolo's when I was twenty three.
I spent an entire paycheck. It would be years before
I could afford my second pair. But whether it was
Sushi Samba or the Gay Bars and Chelsea or Monkey
Bar or Barney as you name it, we were lucky
enough to just go to all the places they went.
Millions of people watched the show, we got to live it,
(01:47):
and looking back, it was such a bygone era of television,
of New York City, of media, of fashion. It's an
incredible time capsule. And of course it lives on in
the two Sex and the City movies and the rebooted
and just like that's series which just ended this year.
It is beloved and deservedly so. And my next guest
is a huge or shall I say big reason why.
(02:11):
He's known for his roles on Law and Order and
The Good Wife. He's an award winning actor of film
and television and theater. Chris Notath, Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
What an intro.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Listen. You have to know how people feel about that show.
And like I said, I was the perfect age and
time and place and profession and personality for that show.
It just spoke to.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Me, Yeah, I should have taken it more seriously.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I think that you just enjoyed it and obviously worked
very hard on it. But I think that was probably best.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I did enjoy the early years. I did think it
got a little over glamorized later on, Yesez, I thought
it lost its compass a bit later on. It's like
anything to please the audience type of thing once they said,
oh they like this, you know, yeah, Whereas there was
bittersweetness and irony and satire and drama at the beginning,
(03:18):
and it wasn't so much about the moon. I can't
even pronounce that show. Pronounce that for me?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, Manolo's yeah, yes, it's a good thing that you can't.
It's fine, it's not for you. It wasn't for you,
but you're right. The movies became references like how many
outfit changes can we have in one scene? And little
it lost sort of the heart of it a little bit.
(03:45):
I know what you mean.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But there was a lot in those first years that
was new and different.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And it was grittier.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I didn't even I don't think any of us knew
what it would become. I certainly didn't. I remember when
my agent first said, do you want to go on
in this meeting because HBO at that time was still
finding its way. Yeah, yes, And they said do you
want to go? You don't have to it's this little
ditty you know or something. They said, well, I'm not
(04:14):
working right now, let me go find out. And what
I read the pilot, the line that intrigued me was
when she says at the end, have you ever been
in love? And he says, abs fucking I said, well,
that's interesting. Yes, sure about this name, mister big, What
the hell is that? So? I think I went into
Darren's Star to meet Darren Starr and I was wearing
(04:36):
sunglasses and he had no idea about my previous career.
And I read somewhere he said if I had seen
him in Law and Order, I never would have cast
him in.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
This, Oh my gosh, because you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Know, so I lucked out that way, and I just said, sure,
let's let's let's go with it. I was at the
time doing a Law and Order movie called Exiled, and
I was all wrapped up in that, so I really
hadn't given it much thought, but the writing was so
good it sort of took care of me.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You know, uh huh, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Were you told? And listen, we're gonna I want to
talk about you as well. But while we're on Sex
and City, were you told at the beginning that you
were going to be a long time love interest or
were you told like maybe a season?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I think it was season to season And then
when it caught fire, like I said, they said, hey,
you know, let's take advantage of this. I'll never forget again.
When we shot it, I just I had a lot
of fun doing it. At that time. I had I
thought a nice chemistry with the girl who plays Carrie.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And that girl, that girl, and but I.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Kind of said, okay, that job's over, you know. And
you know, HBO at the time, which was different than
other TV, would repeat it over the so we shot
and it repeated. So I hadn't heard anything in a while.
So I was outside a cafe in New York Upper
East Side with my good friend Charlie Kipps, who wrote
exceled talking, and all of a sudden we both heard
this sort of noise coming toward us, who was a
(06:15):
sort of a group of young women, and there was
kind of like, you know, I was hearing lies like
is that that? Is? That? That? That's And I was like, oh, yeah,
what And all of a sudden they started screaming at me. Now, look,
I'm not trying to pretend to a rock star thing,
but I turned my head and they were coming at me.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yelling, are you about that?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Big? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Got the fuck up? Let me get out of here.
I was. It scared me a little now, but that
was the beginning of like saying this, this has caught
the imagination of people. Yes, I still didn't take it
too seriously, but that was my first insight into this
could be bigger than I ever thought.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And it was because then it became culturally very important.
But more than that, I remember after nine to eleven,
which you know, was just so devastating to those of
us who lived in Manhattan, especially shows like Sex and
the City and SNL and even like the Mets and
the Yankees, they were really important. They had a bigger
(07:21):
job to do now, which was to bring New Yorkers
together and show the world we were going to be okay.
And I loved the episode that had the ladies going
I don't know if you remember this, because you weren't
in this part, but the ladies go downtown. They talk
about throwing some much needed money downtown to like save
the economy, and it was a thing we were all
(07:42):
talking about, you know, going downtown, eating downtown so that
these businesses could open up again. And it took on
a whole new level of relevance. So I mean, through
all the iterations of those six seasons, it just became.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Part of New York, part of what it still is.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
God nine to eleven, I was downtown and then I
lived in the village, and I remember we went to
this place, the Knickerbocker, and just watched the people on
University Place coming from downtown walking covered in ash, some
of them. It was, yes, docking.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It's just wow, you know what's wild?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Chris. So, I mean I lived that too, and I
have my own memories, and I took pictures that day
with my camera. And my son, who's now ten turning eleven,
is learning about it in school and he's very interested
and he knows that I was there, and you know,
(08:43):
you know, mom, can I see your pictures, which he
very rudely asked if they were in black and white,
and I'm like, dude, dude, it was two thousand and one.
We had colored pictures. But he wanted to go to
the nine to eleven Memorial downtown and the museum. So
I'm I'm seeing it again. I'm seeing nine to eleven
kind of again through different eyes.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Wild.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, we're going to get back to sex and the city,
but I want to just talk about you. I know
you're born in the Midwest, but then you moved to Stanford,
Connecticut pretty young, right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Our family, Yeah, both my parents to find work.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, that's the town next to mine, so I'm real
familiar with it. What kind of kid were you?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh jeez, I was kind of wild and untamed. I
was getting a lot of trouble in school at a
young age. You know. I had two older brothers sort
of used me as a soccer ball in a loving way.
(09:43):
But we were lucky in those days. In Stamford was
such a rural North Stamford. I lived on Webb Hill Road,
off a long ridge. Yep, too many corners. Okay, you
could have been in Vermont. We we had a believe
it or not, This is kind of funny Webhill Road,
and you went up Webhill Road and you got toward
(10:04):
our little driveway and on the left side was a
eight acres of a house with a field that was
a Saint Bernard kennel with like hundreds of Saint Bernards
that when you would.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Walk by, you know, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
On the left was a little tiny graveyard from the
eighteenth century of all the webs who were buried in
this little plot at the base of our stone driveway
which went up and then over to our house, which
was a barn that had been turned into a house
like turn of the century. So my brother and I
(10:40):
lived in the hayloft. So we lived the really and
across the field was the meadow. We had a lot
of nature around us. And across the field was a
home we called the Haunted House. It looked like a
Southern sort of one of those homes that's got to
wrap around porch and a widow's peak, widows whatever they
(11:00):
call it.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Apparently in the twenty some woman for whatever reason walked
out and never came back, and everything just sat there
for decades. He used to sneak in there and it was,
you know, all the pictures and the letters of people.
Still a life, you know, this whole life was. Yeah,
we used to nip a vase or something, a grand piano,
(11:22):
the slippers under the bed. It was truly haunted, ow creepy.
It was, so my imagination was pretty excited by all this.
Growing up.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
What happens when your dad dies you're eleven.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's hard to talk about. It
was such a painful marriage they had. My mom was
a very ambitious woman and the successful one, and my dad.
I consider him to be a war hero. I mean
he came out a career. He was on a flew
(11:59):
their planes off the aircraft carriers, and I think he
was very damaged by it. And I think coming out
of the Navy he lost his way and didn't know
how to get back into normal society. And I know
that some of this program is about mental health, and
part of what I feel bad about is that he
(12:19):
had no outlet to go to. They went to booze
and smoking, and it's like they didn't know better, and
he it was painful to watch as a kid. So
that sort of is part of the fabric of growing up.
So that the marriage was bad and it was hard
for us, and it was almost I don't want to
(12:40):
say a relief, but maybe like maybe he's found some peace.
I don't know about him a lot. He's buried in Arlington.
I brought my son over because he did a silver Star.
He won a lot of different things flying and we
have a picture of my oldest son Ryan and I
had his grave Orlington. And he was a really smart man.
(13:02):
He was like a he was super like. He could
have been a what do they call them bridge when
they played that game bridge, Like he could have been
a bridge whatever master. Yeah. Yeah, Whereas my mother was
super ambitious and I guess felt the weight of having
to take care of three boys. God I have two,
(13:22):
and like I can imagine alone because basically, you know,
he worked for an insurance company and was making nothing. Well,
of course, in those days things were very reasonably cheap,
I mean compared to we're talking the sixties, for God's sake.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, but the.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Pressure was on her and she she was a very
glamorous woman, very headstrong, and so that was a that
was tough. And I think my brothers and I had
a lot of freedom because she would work. Yeah, we
liked in New York. But she she demanded a lot
from us too.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And I know your team years are a little tumultuous.
There's some moves, there's some trouble eventually, boarding school. What
what happens when you get to the Barlow School?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Though? Oh Barlow was like a lifesaver for me. Yeah,
I mean, listen, it was the late sixties. All my
I you know, I had When you're thirteen and fourteen,
it's your friends that become your family. And of course,
you know, jeez, marijuana and that rock and roll was
(14:29):
all coming to Fruition.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I remember I went with my brother to try to
get to Woodstock, just in my friend at the back
seat of the car. We got We got there, but
so far back in the line, it's like, uh, what
do we do now?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
People buy another town.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
We were at Woodstock, we didn't hear any music, but
we're our road ten miles out. Yeah, And I just
think it's a little crazy when I think back of
what my friends and I used to do. We're you know,
getting trouble seemed to be fun, you know, taking down
the signs of all the streets or whatever, but which
(15:09):
drove my mother crazy. And so that's what I mean
when I was a bit wild and untamed, although around
her it was like, you know, the military, and it
was an odd life because she had a very sort
of glamorous life. She was a CBS news correspondent and
so she was some really big names were coming around
(15:31):
the house and of course like great impression. So when
I was getting in trouble at school for having a cigarette,
which was terrible that we were doing that, smoking it,
you know, fourteen or fifteen, but we were, and that
just sort of enraged her. So she, I think mistakenly
(15:52):
said these kids need a father. So she got married
and we moved, of all places, to Newport Beach, California.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, big mistake. Yeah, God, we hated it.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And you know, he wasn't thinking and then she walked
away from She could have been what doing with Barbara Walters.
She was right on the cusp of making that happen.
It was very popular at CBS. She had just done
one of the first women commentaries in the sports world.
You know, now women are all over the place.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Right, Yeah, but then it was rare.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah sixty nine. Suddenly she I think it was with
Frank Efft, because I know he worked for a CBS.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah, and that was a big thing. And she walked
away from all of that and because.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
To marry this guy. I think she was in love
with the guy, and you know, she thought she was
and she thought she was helping saving the family because
these wild kids need to be crawled at. So we moved.
There was just terrible. I mean, the culture shock of
going from the Connecticut woods and your friends to southern
(16:57):
California where people are saying things like bitching and far
out like man, it was painful and I got in
trouble there, you know. And then her fix was, well,
I really wanted to go back east, and you're going back.
(17:19):
You're going to a prep school. You know, your brother
went to Mount Herman. My oldest brother's you know, a scholar,
you know, really smart athlete, one in boards and pole vaulting,
did all kinds of stuff. You know. Meanwhile the younger
fuck up, like I just didn't know what to do
with me, you know. And uh so she said, yeah,
(17:44):
you're going to Mount Herman and you're gonna get a
great education. So we went up to interview and they
kind of looked at my record and looked at my
mom's but we do know, there are some kinds of
schools that are happening that I think may be better
for him, and because he's not for this, you know,
(18:09):
and she said, oh, but what would that be. Well,
there's the Buxton School, and there's the Barlow School over
in Amenia, Dutchess County, and that may fit him a
little bit better. And so, you know, my mother was
very suspicious. She believed in the Ivy League, you know.
But we'll go look at it. So we drove into
the gorgeous I don't know if you've been to Dutchess County,
(18:30):
it's beautiful arm and especially in the this is nineteen
seventy now, the rolling hills and the something bucolic about it,
right out of a kind of a Wordsworth poem or something. Yes,
So we were driving past the campus and there it
is on a hill, just beautifully laid out, and I
was like looking at it. And we made a turn
and we were coming down to go to the medmaster's
(18:52):
house and I looked at the left and there's this gorgeous, beautiful,
sparkling small not lake, but big big pond, let's put
it that way. It's small lake kind of thing, and
I looked, and all of a sudden, there were like
ten young women skinny dipping.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And I was like, oh, this is for me.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Look my mother was looking the other way to make
the turn, and I said, geeze, mom, I have a
really good feeling about this.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I'm gonna like it here.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I think I may like it here. And so I
went and it. It definitely changed my life. I don't know,
I think I should be instituted every institution. I've gone
to Barlow, Marlborough College, Yale Drama, I've I've had such
great times and so happy. I should institutionalize myself. But
(19:49):
that kind of tremendous. Yeah. I like the structure, and
I like I like academia. I like the study of everything,
and I mean Yale drama was great because I had
been struggling for you know, New York in the late seventies,
early eighties. It's like, it's just it was hard and
(20:10):
suddenly to go to drama school at Yale, where they're
going to say, you'll probably end up doing about twenty
five plays within three years because you've got directors, designers,
actors all working toward that production. You know, our first production,
our first year was the lower depths and Gorky and
it was like God, it was like, I get to
(20:31):
do this part I played. The actor actually was a
drunken Russian.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But you get I mean, you end up being able
to study with like two great Sandy Meiser and Stella Adler, Like.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, well I did stella Adler's and Meisner was great,
the greatest teacher I had there. Actually, because Meisner was
off and away he wasn't doing well. I actually studied
privately with him. But Richie Pinter, who ran the school,
was just this great teacher. And again another institution I thrived.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And how do you get to law and Order after Yale?
How do you get to law and order? How does
that happen?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Well? I didn't immediately get I got out of Yale,
and god, the first job I got, you know, was
a soap opera, Believe it or Not, which was really boring,
and I knew I didn't like that. And then I
did some jobs here and there, you know, but I
(21:28):
was really a little frustrated. And then I got a
movie which would today would be considered a low budget movie,
and it was shooting in Indonesia, in Jakarta, and it
was called I was like, Ji Karta, this is like,
(21:49):
I mean, my geography wasn't too solid. I guess. I
was like, what the hell is the capital of Indonesia?
But it's like everyone knows it from Bali being down
an hour and a half light.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Everyone goes to you know, they're not the same.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
No, even though it's the same country.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Right, they're not the same.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And they said I was going to be there for
eight weeks, and I was there for about seven months.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Oh wow, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And what happened was the living experience turned into the
whole thing. The movie was just my day job, and
at that point I was making what would today would
be considered scale. But for me it was like heaven,
you know, because I made some of my most lifelong
friends there. And it was right after that when I
got home in the fall. I went in January of
(22:40):
nineteen eighty seven, and I got back in November of
nineteen eighty seven from that job. But I started to
get back in the swing of things, and I got
the audition and I had been an auditioning and a
very well known and respected casting director named Lynk Kressel.
I was a terrible I probably still am. I was
a terrible auditioner. I missed. Thought, yeah, you just go
(23:02):
and you wing it because you want to be spontaneous,
and that can work once in a blue moon, but
then when you got to come back and do it again.
I remember I had a great audition for Moonstruck. I
would have got Nicholas Cage anywhere, but I had a
great one. And they called me back and I was like,
I'll just do the same thing because I had gone
there and winged. Yeah, I can just stunk up the room.
(23:24):
It's like, yeah, I can't see it. But Lynn Kressel
actually said, listen, don't do what you usually do. You
need to take me seriously. You've got telling me you
your auditions are. You know you could get this put
something into it. And so I did, and I had
(23:47):
to be flown out to the Black Tower and Universal,
which is where when it starts getting close you go
up there, and George Zunza was there, who was my
first partner. I don't know. They liked our chemistry kind
of and also the physical difference, and I guess I
(24:07):
was what they were looking for. And I was super
exciting because shooting in New York a series and getting paid,
I mean holy cow. I just you know, I was
used to living in maid's rooms for eighty eight dollars
a month. And I have to tell you that practically
all of my first year of Law and Order for me,
(24:29):
I can't even watch the episodes. My acting is so bad. No,
I just didn't understand what I needed to do, which
is to not try to do so much. It's like,
why are you, dude? Why are you? Why are you indicating?
Why shut up? You know? You know, it was almost
(24:52):
the language was so spars, so uncharacter driven, that you
felt you had to make something out of it. And
I watched that whole first season. I just go, oh god,
it's hard for me. But you know, they didn't fire me,
and I think I started to get the hang of it, probably,
I would say, by the last couple of episodes, and
(25:15):
then I realized it's just about being there and letting
the moment happen.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And then does sex and the City start at the
simultaneously like you're doing.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I left the Law and Order in ninety five. I
just ninety eight ninety nine. Yeah, we did the pilot.
I think at the end of ninety eight somewhere Night
got you. Yeah, came out in ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So now you're in another New York.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Another New York show, show York shows. Yeah again without
any real idea of what it would become. You know.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, right is cool.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
But you really could have played mister Big a lot
of ways. And I think what made him such a
great character is that he is layered. He's not just
one thing or another thing.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Well, the the funny thing is is I'm more of
an Aiden hair down to here playing guitar.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You told me this the other night. You told me
this the other night, that you're more of an Aiden
than a mister Big, and it shook me to my core.
But Chris, tell me what this means.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I'm an old hippie, you know. And I don't do
woodworking like Aiden, you know. But you know I played
guitar badly, and I commune with nature. I don't care
about clothes. I have the same to this day. My
wife gave me these corduroys and I wear them out
and then I get them fixed. Luckily, I got to
(26:48):
keep all my suits from Sex in the City, so
I can look dapper if I want. And I haven't
bought a suit sentence. But the fact that people know
me is like the businessman, dapper and all that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I had to shed so many bad habits to portray
that man because I'm a bit of a slob. The
part taught me a lot actually about he has patience
I'm working on still. He's very modulated. He's very logical
and reasonable and also honest about who he is.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yes, I always say he.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Never tried to be anything when they go, you know,
he was terrible to carry it. He never tried to
be anything that he wasn't. He was who he was,
which was rich, and he had a life that he liked, yep.
And he had boundaries, but he had you know, he
adored carried and he probably knew that in many ways
(27:48):
they weren't right for each other. But he got a
kick out of her, and he didn't take relationships, it
seems to me in the same way that she did.
I remember at the beginning I said to Jarreing, I said,
can we get away from the suave bola? You know,
you know, would you like some more of this expensive wine?
Maybe I should get you a diamond to make you
(28:09):
feel better? Come on, I mean, my favorite episodes are
when she farts in bed.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah, great, when we fall in the pond great.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And really my ultimate favorite were the mud Fights. Yes, Gon,
and that's based a little bit on a true story.
I did have a flirtation with a well known actress
and I gave him the line Michael Patrick Kingey, that's
what makes him good as a writer. I think he
likes to take stuff from you. And I'm not going
(28:38):
to name who that it was, but I said, and
I said, use this line in it.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I already know what you're gonna say. He can read me,
but I can never.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
But I could never get her that fucked up. So
when we bond at the end, I think is brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Right, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
But that episode was so important for his character, for
mister Big to be vulnerable. Yeah, and you needed to
see him kind of messed up from a woman and yeah, yeah,
kind of groveling and Carrie, I need your help. And
that that's one of my favorite episodes too, because it
was it was such a different It was a role
reversal that we needed to see, and.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That element is what to me was so missing in
the movies. And of course the other show I don't
even watch, but judging by the episode I was in,
it wasn't anything I was really that interested. In fact,
I cut myself lucky.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
To have died in just like that.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
But you know, as an actor, those are all include
all the TV shows that I've done in New York,
and I'm so lucky to have been in them. Yeah,
but I don't between you and me. Yeah, as an actor,
(29:59):
I don't feel they define my career. And yet I
don't feel i've done I look at a lot of
the great work that's going on. There are so many
good actors out there, and I kind of feel, and
I don't want to put it down, but I kind
of feel, yeah, that was good, and thank god it
provided a livelihood. I've got two kids now and I
put them in college. But as an artist, I don't
(30:20):
think those made it for me. I feel like I
have more to give, and I haven't. I don't think
I've done it. I can think of a few plays
that I've done where there were nights where I felt,
you're an artist, you did something that was moving, you know.
(30:41):
I think of the last week when I did Faustust,
which I got pillared for by the critics. By the way, again,
the whole mister big thing, mister based you know.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Just you know, yeah, And people don't realize how much
theater you've done.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, And it was what I set out to do
when I got out to Coramma School until it, you know,
I got Law and Order and didn't look back. But
I've done theater throughout in different spots, you know, wasn't
I mean, listen my heroes growing up. I before I
went to the Neighborhood playoffs, I read a biography of
(31:14):
Lawrence Olivia and that was it for me. Ralph Richardson
and that life in the theater was That's what I wanted.
It just doesn't exist unless you went off to a
regional theater, you know. Three. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't
do that. I didn't really want to do that. I
wanted this romantic idea of what he had. You know,
he's the greatest theatrical actor ever. So I don't feel
(31:36):
like being in popular TV shows really means anything to me?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Is it not as fulfilling for you?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
No? I'm glad, you know, And that it's meant to
culturally gives it a sort of like geez wow, people
love it and people enjoy it. Why do I feel like,
not that I'm obviously not wasting my time, but it's
and I don't believe in like legacy or any thing
like that, but it's like that little spark inside of
me that goes, yeah, you haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I just wanted to before we go on to some
lighter stuff. I want to talk about mental health. I
want to talk about some things that I know are
important to you, and I want to talk about them
through I know what was a challenging chapter, and that's
the me Too chapter and I'm covering me too at
CNN just like everyone else. And you're accused through this process.
(32:45):
You've denied any wrongdoing. You've never been charged. But and
this isn't a podcast where we like relitigate that stuff
at all, but I did want to give you the
opportunity to talk about it, address it, and talk about
what that life changing moment meant for you and your
mental health.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, life changing is a good way of describing it.
I mean, yeah, nothing came of it, and yet being
the focus of a media deluge. I think these writers
know they have the power to change the perception of reality,
and they I just don't think they care because there
(33:27):
wasn't even a cursory vetting of this. Okay, I know
exactly what happened. I know exactly what those articles left out.
There was a line I read somewhere that said people
in who live on the sea and get into a
really rough storm, merchants, big boats, merchant marines or whatever.
(33:49):
They get into a terrible storm, and what do they do.
They turn off the engines and let it and drift
through it till the waters are come to a certain
That's what I had to do, because you can't explain
it away. You can't defend yourself. It just doesn't work
that way. Never explain, never defend outother some line like that.
(34:12):
And I'm the one that put myself in the position
for this to happen because I was reckless, I was immature.
You know. I did the classic mistake I think that
many people do, which is you mistake pleasure for happiness.
I just know that I put myself in that place
to do that out of my actions of being irresponsible
(34:36):
and maybe entitled, I don't know. And I think also
as we talk about the character of mister Big and
how many females loved him, that they felt betrayed that
the actor who played him just ruined this character that
they had all these fantasies about. But it's like, I
was never that that's just a fantasy man, that's just
(34:56):
a character, right, But you know it was importan to them,
and I just chat all over it, I guess, and
you know that's too bad.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
How have you gotten involved in men's mental health?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Oh, so a lot of things happened that I had
to immediately involve myself in meditation. I love the app Headspace.
It's been a lifesaver for me. I think therapy to
a certain extent work to a point. Bart Morris, who
(35:29):
runs the Lions, then it's called I want to read
you something about what the essence of the Lions then is.
Because he's better than me. Great in the unforgiving terrain
of relationships are primal instincts and adversaries are the lions.
(35:50):
They lurk, sometimes unnoticed and reactions in the crucible of marriage, work, parenting.
Picture it the line of rejection. It's mighty war echoing
telling us to shield ourselves, to distance ourselves from vulnerability, weakness.
It's raw. It can be heard every time we overreach
and feel disrespected. In the lines then program we confront
these beasts, and this has cut off the delicate balance
(36:14):
of love and leadership. When those lions take us down
treacherous paths, we find ourselves lashing out, checking out, or
succumbing to fits of rage. So I like that he
calls them lines, and I know what he means. And
this is the exact opposite of that whole man sphere thing. No,
(36:35):
this is about coming back to your vulnerability, back to
those lions that roar out because of your fears, yes,
fronting them and with other men through their experiences and ours,
and then talking about, you know, steps to take it
and what you can do. One of the things I
(36:56):
had to do. And I don't want to talk about
my marriage too much because my wife's a very private
person and shouldn't need a fuck up like me, you
know from my past actions. But one of the most
important things was writing a letter of apology for my actions.
And it's still not enough. I've probably run away from
a lot of things because you know what you're You're
(37:20):
not gonna drink it away, You're not gonna fuck it away.
You're not gonna work it away, you're not gonna travel
it away. You're gonna have to be in it and
let it be in you, and that's hard to do.
And this whole thing that happened was like the universe
saying you're going to be in this and you're gonna
(37:43):
deal with it, and you're not gonna find you can try,
and then you find out very soon that it doesn't
do that. So life has a way of it seems
from you, the idea that you can't escape from it.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Nobody gets out alive.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
No one gets out alive. But that's what's nice about
the lines den is that you know there's a brotherhood
of us as men talking about our fears.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah, and it's really important.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
That's not macho or anything.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's it's yeah, like vulnerables.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
In marriage and relationships, the way we've used substances, the
way we've run away from ourselves. And I've been running
my whole life in a way without even knowing it,
Like when I said mistaking pleasure for happiness, and you
know I took advantage of it. You know, I guess
(38:40):
after a while though, it's like, dude, you can you
know you're maybe your twenties and thirties, but at your age,
there's no excuse so well.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I think that that was really vulnerable and accountable and
I appreciate you talking about that. Yeah, I think it
was important, important to talk about it that way. All right,
I want to end on a lightning round. Oh no, no,
you're gonna like it.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I hear all about your lightning rounds.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, but you're gonna like it. The first question you're
gonna love. Why do you walk one hundred miles every year?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Oh? Yeah, Well I talked about my friendships going back
to Jakarta, and there's a group, a couple of men
that I know they come from that who got me involved.
All these people live in Spain and it just seems
insurmountable to walk one hundred miles, and so doing it
(39:45):
and finishing it feels incredibly gratifying and along the way
the friendships deepen, which is very important to me.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Very cool. Yeah, what is on your Spotify playlist?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Ah? I'm because I know you do a thing of
an album that you could know.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
You told me so I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I'll just list a little bit. I call this my
Cigar Night perfect First, That's the Way by led Zeppelin,
Great Destiny zero seven, Don't Let It Go Back, My
favorite the brand new Heavies. Day by day you heard
of the brand new Heavies. No old shelter, you gotta
(40:28):
get it. Barcelona, George Ezra, Great without a Song, Frank Sinatra, Great,
Spooky Classics, four Slip Away, Pat Metheny, ramble On, led Zeppelin,
All or Nothing at All, Frank Sinatra, Angelize, Frank Sinatra,
which I sing at the cutting room sometimes. Let me
know when you're in New York if I needed someone,
(40:50):
The Beatles, Carolina, The Beach Boys, Last Tangle in Paris, Gotto, Barbari,
Stormy Classics, four Stone, sole Pit, The Fifth Dimension, One
less Bill to answer, to answer the Fifth Dimension? Love
theme from Chinatown, Till Brawner. Who can I turn to?
Nancy Wilson, You're the only woman, Ambrosia.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh wow, so eclectic.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Jazz man, Carol King, sit yourself down, Stephen Stills, and
it goes on. But you probably have four great So
it's a lot of different stuff. That's when I'm having
a cigar and a martini.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah it sounds great. Yeah, that's vibe. What's the best
restaurant in New York City to you?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Jeez gosh, Bella Blue on the eppery side, is great
Italian thing is I've been cooking so steakhouses. I went
to a steakhouse the other day and I said, my
stake's better than this. Oh, I have to say I
liked the Ilios. It was pretty good. I went there
and it was pretty good. Crowded, but still, I like
(42:04):
you heard of them?
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Okay, all right, that's good.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Berkshire's or the City, all right, I gotta have both. Okay,
So yeah, yes your answers, yes, yes, okay. What's your
favorite play?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I want to see this play in New York ragtime.
I hear it's amazing. Almost any Shakespeare. I saw Zoe
Caldwell and Medea. That was pretty amazing. She directed me
an Hamlet in the late eighties. That and Sweeney todd
(42:46):
Len carry you.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Okay? Good one, yeah, good?
Speaker 1 (42:51):
And there's more, but I'm you know.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Sure, Okay, this is the last question. It's it's important
to me. We ask it at the end of every podcast.
When is it iced coffee? Season?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Never?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
It's never always hot coffee?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Okay, okay, are you espresso? Are you black coffee?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
What are you coffee? With a mix A little bit
of almond milk and regular milk, that's it. My favorite coffee,
believe it round is dunkin Donuts.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Well that's mine too, is it?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Well, I'm from New England, I'm from Boston, so dunkin
Donuts is it for me? I don't know if you
can see I've got.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Just had two a dunk yeah right there.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Okay, Well, the correct answer is iced coffee season is
year round. But we at least like that. You enjoy
dunkin Donuts coffee?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Oh? Why is that the correct answer? Year round?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Because that's that's how I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Very good.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I have it in like fifteen degree weather. It doesn't
matter what the weather is. I need ice.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Cl with hot coffee.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It can be here in the summer.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just opposite ends of the same coin.
Is what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
What sign are you sign?
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Oh? I'm a scorpio.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Okay, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I don't need okay, perfect.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I love that you asked anyway, Chris, note, this was
really a wonderful conversation and I'm really appreciative that you
had it with me. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Oh I'm glad you have done it. It was great.
Thank you for giving me the space to open up.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Absolutely, absolutely appreciate it. Next week, on Off the Cup,
as the holidays approach, I talked to comedian Aparna Nanturla
about mental health.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, it feels like my anxiety is on its own,
you know, Eat, Pray, Love Journey.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel
Hill and Native Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I
am your host, se Cup. Editing and sound design by
Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts,
(45:12):
Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,
As an actor include all the TV shows that I've
done in New York, and I'm so lucky to have
been in them. But as an artist, I don't think
those made it for me. I feel like I have
more to give.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote. Boy,
do we have a good one for you today? Let
me take you back. There was a very short era.
It was a moment in time. It was a flicker
of light that I was the exact right age, at
the exact right time, in the exact right place to
(00:41):
be right in the middle of it. And it was magic.
From nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and four, if
you were a twenty somethingter professional woman living in Manhattan,
you saw your life, or maybe the life you wanted,
depicted on screen in a hit television show with much
better fashion than you could ever afford. Sex and the
(01:03):
City came out when I was finishing college, and then
I moved to the city to become a writer. No surprise,
it made a big impact on my life. And if
you lived in the city, it was like a guidebook.
It told us what restaurants to go to, which clubs
and bars to go to, where to shop, where to live,
where to look for love? What kind of guys to avoid?
(01:24):
I bought my first Manolo's when I was twenty three.
I spent an entire paycheck. It would be years before
I could afford my second pair. But whether it was
Sushi Samba or the Gay Bars and Chelsea or Monkey
Bar or Barney as you name it, we were lucky
enough to just go to all the places they went.
Millions of people watched the show, we got to live it,
(01:47):
and looking back, it was such a bygone era of television,
of New York City, of media, of fashion. It's an
incredible time capsule. And of course it lives on in
the two Sex and the City movies and the rebooted
and just like that's series which just ended this year.
It is beloved and deservedly so. And my next guest
is a huge or shall I say big reason why.
(02:11):
He's known for his roles on Law and Order and
The Good Wife. He's an award winning actor of film
and television and theater. Chris Notath, Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
What an intro.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Listen. You have to know how people feel about that show.
And like I said, I was the perfect age and
time and place and profession and personality for that show.
It just spoke to.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
Me, Yeah, I should have taken it more seriously.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
I think that you just enjoyed it and obviously worked
very hard on it. But I think that was probably best.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I did enjoy the early years. I did think it
got a little over glamorized later on, Yesez, I thought
it lost its compass a bit later on. It's like
anything to please the audience type of thing once they said,
oh they like this, you know, yeah, Whereas there was
bittersweetness and irony and satire and drama at the beginning,
(03:18):
and it wasn't so much about the moon. I can't
even pronounce that show. Pronounce that for me?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, Manolo's yeah, yes, it's a good thing that you can't.
It's fine, it's not for you. It wasn't for you,
but you're right. The movies became references like how many
outfit changes can we have in one scene? And little
it lost sort of the heart of it a little bit.
(03:45):
I know what you mean.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But there was a lot in those first years that
was new and different.
Speaker 3 (03:50):
And it was grittier.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
I didn't even I don't think any of us knew
what it would become. I certainly didn't. I remember when
my agent first said, do you want to go on
in this meeting because HBO at that time was still
finding its way. Yeah, yes, And they said do you
want to go? You don't have to it's this little
ditty you know or something. They said, well, I'm not
(04:14):
working right now, let me go find out. And what
I read the pilot, the line that intrigued me was
when she says at the end, have you ever been
in love? And he says, abs fucking I said, well,
that's interesting. Yes, sure about this name, mister big, What
the hell is that? So? I think I went into
Darren's Star to meet Darren Starr and I was wearing
(04:36):
sunglasses and he had no idea about my previous career.
And I read somewhere he said if I had seen
him in Law and Order, I never would have cast
him in.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
This, Oh my gosh, because you.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Know, so I lucked out that way, and I just said, sure,
let's let's let's go with it. I was at the
time doing a Law and Order movie called Exiled, and
I was all wrapped up in that, so I really
hadn't given it much thought, but the writing was so
good it sort of took care of me.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
You know, uh huh, you know what I mean?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
Were you told? And listen, we're gonna I want to
talk about you as well. But while we're on Sex
and City, were you told at the beginning that you
were going to be a long time love interest or
were you told like maybe a season?
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I think it was season to season And then
when it caught fire, like I said, they said, hey,
you know, let's take advantage of this. I'll never forget again.
When we shot it, I just I had a lot
of fun doing it. At that time. I had I
thought a nice chemistry with the girl who plays Carrie.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
And that girl, that girl, and but I.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Kind of said, okay, that job's over, you know. And
you know, HBO at the time, which was different than
other TV, would repeat it over the so we shot
and it repeated. So I hadn't heard anything in a while.
So I was outside a cafe in New York Upper
East Side with my good friend Charlie Kipps, who wrote
exceled talking, and all of a sudden we both heard
this sort of noise coming toward us, who was a
(06:15):
sort of a group of young women, and there was
kind of like, you know, I was hearing lies like
is that that? Is? That? That? That's And I was like, oh, yeah,
what And all of a sudden they started screaming at me. Now, look,
I'm not trying to pretend to a rock star thing,
but I turned my head and they were coming at me.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Yelling, are you about that?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
Big? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (06:36):
Got the fuck up? Let me get out of here.
I was. It scared me a little now, but that
was the beginning of like saying this, this has caught
the imagination of people. Yes, I still didn't take it
too seriously, but that was my first insight into this
could be bigger than I ever thought.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
And it was because then it became culturally very important.
But more than that, I remember after nine to eleven,
which you know, was just so devastating to those of
us who lived in Manhattan, especially shows like Sex and
the City and SNL and even like the Mets and
the Yankees, they were really important. They had a bigger
(07:21):
job to do now, which was to bring New Yorkers
together and show the world we were going to be okay.
And I loved the episode that had the ladies going
I don't know if you remember this, because you weren't
in this part, but the ladies go downtown. They talk
about throwing some much needed money downtown to like save
the economy, and it was a thing we were all
(07:42):
talking about, you know, going downtown, eating downtown so that
these businesses could open up again. And it took on
a whole new level of relevance. So I mean, through
all the iterations of those six seasons, it just became.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Part of New York, part of what it still is.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Yeah, I do remember that.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
God nine to eleven, I was downtown and then I
lived in the village, and I remember we went to
this place, the Knickerbocker, and just watched the people on
University Place coming from downtown walking covered in ash, some
of them. It was, yes, docking.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
It's just wow, you know what's wild?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Chris. So, I mean I lived that too, and I
have my own memories, and I took pictures that day
with my camera. And my son, who's now ten turning eleven,
is learning about it in school and he's very interested
and he knows that I was there, and you know,
(08:43):
you know, mom, can I see your pictures, which he
very rudely asked if they were in black and white,
and I'm like, dude, dude, it was two thousand and one.
We had colored pictures. But he wanted to go to
the nine to eleven Memorial downtown and the museum. So
I'm I'm seeing it again. I'm seeing nine to eleven
kind of again through different eyes.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Wild.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Okay, we're going to get back to sex and the city,
but I want to just talk about you. I know
you're born in the Midwest, but then you moved to Stanford,
Connecticut pretty young, right.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Our family, Yeah, both my parents to find work.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Yeah, that's the town next to mine, so I'm real
familiar with it. What kind of kid were you?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Oh jeez, I was kind of wild and untamed. I
was getting a lot of trouble in school at a
young age. You know. I had two older brothers sort
of used me as a soccer ball in a loving way.
(09:43):
But we were lucky in those days. In Stamford was
such a rural North Stamford. I lived on Webb Hill Road,
off a long ridge. Yep, too many corners. Okay, you
could have been in Vermont. We we had a believe
it or not, This is kind of funny Webhill Road,
and you went up Webhill Road and you got toward
(10:04):
our little driveway and on the left side was a
eight acres of a house with a field that was
a Saint Bernard kennel with like hundreds of Saint Bernards
that when you would.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Walk by, you know, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
On the left was a little tiny graveyard from the
eighteenth century of all the webs who were buried in
this little plot at the base of our stone driveway
which went up and then over to our house, which
was a barn that had been turned into a house
like turn of the century. So my brother and I
(10:40):
lived in the hayloft. So we lived the really and
across the field was the meadow. We had a lot
of nature around us. And across the field was a
home we called the Haunted House. It looked like a
Southern sort of one of those homes that's got to
wrap around porch and a widow's peak, widows whatever they
(11:00):
call it.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Apparently in the twenty some woman for whatever reason walked
out and never came back, and everything just sat there
for decades. He used to sneak in there and it was,
you know, all the pictures and the letters of people.
Still a life, you know, this whole life was. Yeah,
we used to nip a vase or something, a grand piano,
(11:22):
the slippers under the bed. It was truly haunted, ow creepy.
It was, so my imagination was pretty excited by all this.
Growing up.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
What happens when your dad dies you're eleven.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
Yeah, yeah, you know, it's hard to talk about. It
was such a painful marriage they had. My mom was
a very ambitious woman and the successful one, and my dad.
I consider him to be a war hero. I mean
he came out a career. He was on a flew
(11:59):
their planes off the aircraft carriers, and I think he
was very damaged by it. And I think coming out
of the Navy he lost his way and didn't know
how to get back into normal society. And I know
that some of this program is about mental health, and
part of what I feel bad about is that he
(12:19):
had no outlet to go to. They went to booze
and smoking, and it's like they didn't know better, and
he it was painful to watch as a kid. So
that sort of is part of the fabric of growing up.
So that the marriage was bad and it was hard
for us, and it was almost I don't want to
(12:40):
say a relief, but maybe like maybe he's found some peace.
I don't know about him a lot. He's buried in Arlington.
I brought my son over because he did a silver Star.
He won a lot of different things flying and we
have a picture of my oldest son Ryan and I
had his grave Orlington. And he was a really smart man.
(13:02):
He was like a he was super like. He could
have been a what do they call them bridge when
they played that game bridge, Like he could have been
a bridge whatever master. Yeah. Yeah, Whereas my mother was
super ambitious and I guess felt the weight of having
to take care of three boys. God I have two,
(13:22):
and like I can imagine alone because basically, you know,
he worked for an insurance company and was making nothing. Well,
of course, in those days things were very reasonably cheap,
I mean compared to we're talking the sixties, for God's sake.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
Yeah, but the.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
Pressure was on her and she she was a very
glamorous woman, very headstrong, and so that was a that
was tough. And I think my brothers and I had
a lot of freedom because she would work. Yeah, we
liked in New York. But she she demanded a lot
from us too.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
And I know your team years are a little tumultuous.
There's some moves, there's some trouble eventually, boarding school. What
what happens when you get to the Barlow School?
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Though? Oh Barlow was like a lifesaver for me. Yeah,
I mean, listen, it was the late sixties. All my
I you know, I had When you're thirteen and fourteen,
it's your friends that become your family. And of course,
you know, jeez, marijuana and that rock and roll was
(14:29):
all coming to Fruition.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I remember I went with my brother to try to
get to Woodstock, just in my friend at the back
seat of the car. We got We got there, but
so far back in the line, it's like, uh, what
do we do now?
Speaker 3 (14:45):
People buy another town.
Speaker 1 (14:46):
We were at Woodstock, we didn't hear any music, but
we're our road ten miles out. Yeah, And I just
think it's a little crazy when I think back of
what my friends and I used to do. We're you know,
getting trouble seemed to be fun, you know, taking down
the signs of all the streets or whatever, but which
(15:09):
drove my mother crazy. And so that's what I mean
when I was a bit wild and untamed, although around
her it was like, you know, the military, and it
was an odd life because she had a very sort
of glamorous life. She was a CBS news correspondent and
so she was some really big names were coming around
(15:31):
the house and of course like great impression. So when
I was getting in trouble at school for having a cigarette,
which was terrible that we were doing that, smoking it,
you know, fourteen or fifteen, but we were, and that
just sort of enraged her. So she, I think mistakenly
(15:52):
said these kids need a father. So she got married
and we moved, of all places, to Newport Beach, California.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
Yeah, big mistake. Yeah, God, we hated it.
Speaker 1 (16:05):
And you know, he wasn't thinking and then she walked
away from She could have been what doing with Barbara Walters.
She was right on the cusp of making that happen.
It was very popular at CBS. She had just done
one of the first women commentaries in the sports world.
You know, now women are all over the place.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
Right, Yeah, but then it was rare.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah sixty nine. Suddenly she I think it was with
Frank Efft, because I know he worked for a CBS.
Speaker 3 (16:33):
Yeah, and that was a big thing. And she walked
away from all of that and because.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
To marry this guy. I think she was in love
with the guy, and you know, she thought she was
and she thought she was helping saving the family because
these wild kids need to be crawled at. So we moved.
There was just terrible. I mean, the culture shock of
going from the Connecticut woods and your friends to southern
(16:57):
California where people are saying things like bitching and far
out like man, it was painful and I got in
trouble there, you know. And then her fix was, well,
I really wanted to go back east, and you're going back.
(17:19):
You're going to a prep school. You know, your brother
went to Mount Herman. My oldest brother's you know, a scholar,
you know, really smart athlete, one in boards and pole vaulting,
did all kinds of stuff. You know. Meanwhile the younger
fuck up, like I just didn't know what to do
with me, you know. And uh so she said, yeah,
(17:44):
you're going to Mount Herman and you're gonna get a
great education. So we went up to interview and they
kind of looked at my record and looked at my
mom's but we do know, there are some kinds of
schools that are happening that I think may be better
for him, and because he's not for this, you know,
(18:09):
and she said, oh, but what would that be. Well,
there's the Buxton School, and there's the Barlow School over
in Amenia, Dutchess County, and that may fit him a
little bit better. And so, you know, my mother was
very suspicious. She believed in the Ivy League, you know.
But we'll go look at it. So we drove into
the gorgeous I don't know if you've been to Dutchess County,
(18:30):
it's beautiful arm and especially in the this is nineteen
seventy now, the rolling hills and the something bucolic about it,
right out of a kind of a Wordsworth poem or something. Yes,
So we were driving past the campus and there it
is on a hill, just beautifully laid out, and I
was like looking at it. And we made a turn
and we were coming down to go to the medmaster's
(18:52):
house and I looked at the left and there's this gorgeous, beautiful,
sparkling small not lake, but big big pond, let's put
it that way. It's small lake kind of thing, and
I looked, and all of a sudden, there were like
ten young women skinny dipping.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And I was like, oh, this is for me.
Speaker 1 (19:13):
Look my mother was looking the other way to make
the turn, and I said, geeze, mom, I have a
really good feeling about this.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I'm gonna like it here.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I think I may like it here. And so I
went and it. It definitely changed my life. I don't know,
I think I should be instituted every institution. I've gone
to Barlow, Marlborough College, Yale Drama, I've I've had such
great times and so happy. I should institutionalize myself. But
(19:49):
that kind of tremendous. Yeah. I like the structure, and
I like I like academia. I like the study of everything,
and I mean Yale drama was great because I had
been struggling for you know, New York in the late seventies,
early eighties. It's like, it's just it was hard and
(20:10):
suddenly to go to drama school at Yale, where they're
going to say, you'll probably end up doing about twenty
five plays within three years because you've got directors, designers,
actors all working toward that production. You know, our first production,
our first year was the lower depths and Gorky and
it was like God, it was like, I get to
(20:31):
do this part I played. The actor actually was a
drunken Russian.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
But you get I mean, you end up being able
to study with like two great Sandy Meiser and Stella Adler, Like.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Yeah, well I did stella Adler's and Meisner was great,
the greatest teacher I had there. Actually, because Meisner was
off and away he wasn't doing well. I actually studied
privately with him. But Richie Pinter, who ran the school,
was just this great teacher. And again another institution I thrived.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
And how do you get to law and Order after Yale?
How do you get to law and order? How does
that happen?
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Well? I didn't immediately get I got out of Yale,
and god, the first job I got, you know, was
a soap opera, Believe it or Not, which was really boring,
and I knew I didn't like that. And then I
did some jobs here and there, you know, but I
(21:28):
was really a little frustrated. And then I got a
movie which would today would be considered a low budget movie,
and it was shooting in Indonesia, in Jakarta, and it
was called I was like, Ji Karta, this is like,
(21:49):
I mean, my geography wasn't too solid. I guess. I
was like, what the hell is the capital of Indonesia?
But it's like everyone knows it from Bali being down
an hour and a half light.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
Everyone goes to you know, they're not the same.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
No, even though it's the same country.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
Right, they're not the same.
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And they said I was going to be there for
eight weeks, and I was there for about seven months.
Speaker 3 (22:13):
Oh wow, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
And what happened was the living experience turned into the
whole thing. The movie was just my day job, and
at that point I was making what would today would
be considered scale. But for me it was like heaven,
you know, because I made some of my most lifelong
friends there. And it was right after that when I
got home in the fall. I went in January of
(22:40):
nineteen eighty seven, and I got back in November of
nineteen eighty seven from that job. But I started to
get back in the swing of things, and I got
the audition and I had been an auditioning and a
very well known and respected casting director named Lynk Kressel.
I was a terrible I probably still am. I was
a terrible auditioner. I missed. Thought, yeah, you just go
(23:02):
and you wing it because you want to be spontaneous,
and that can work once in a blue moon, but
then when you got to come back and do it again.
I remember I had a great audition for Moonstruck. I
would have got Nicholas Cage anywhere, but I had a
great one. And they called me back and I was like,
I'll just do the same thing because I had gone
there and winged. Yeah, I can just stunk up the room.
(23:24):
It's like, yeah, I can't see it. But Lynn Kressel
actually said, listen, don't do what you usually do. You
need to take me seriously. You've got telling me you
your auditions are. You know you could get this put
something into it. And so I did, and I had
(23:47):
to be flown out to the Black Tower and Universal,
which is where when it starts getting close you go
up there, and George Zunza was there, who was my
first partner. I don't know. They liked our chemistry kind
of and also the physical difference, and I guess I
(24:07):
was what they were looking for. And I was super
exciting because shooting in New York a series and getting paid,
I mean holy cow. I just you know, I was
used to living in maid's rooms for eighty eight dollars
a month. And I have to tell you that practically
all of my first year of Law and Order for me,
(24:29):
I can't even watch the episodes. My acting is so bad. No,
I just didn't understand what I needed to do, which
is to not try to do so much. It's like,
why are you, dude? Why are you? Why are you indicating?
Why shut up? You know? You know, it was almost
(24:52):
the language was so spars, so uncharacter driven, that you
felt you had to make something out of it. And
I watched that whole first season. I just go, oh god,
it's hard for me. But you know, they didn't fire me,
and I think I started to get the hang of it, probably,
I would say, by the last couple of episodes, and
(25:15):
then I realized it's just about being there and letting
the moment happen.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
And then does sex and the City start at the
simultaneously like you're doing.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
I left the Law and Order in ninety five. I
just ninety eight ninety nine. Yeah, we did the pilot.
I think at the end of ninety eight somewhere Night
got you. Yeah, came out in ninety nine.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
So now you're in another New York.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Another New York show, show York shows. Yeah again without
any real idea of what it would become. You know.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah, right is cool.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
But you really could have played mister Big a lot
of ways. And I think what made him such a
great character is that he is layered. He's not just
one thing or another thing.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Well, the the funny thing is is I'm more of
an Aiden hair down to here playing guitar.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
You told me this the other night. You told me
this the other night, that you're more of an Aiden
than a mister Big, and it shook me to my core.
But Chris, tell me what this means.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
I'm an old hippie, you know. And I don't do
woodworking like Aiden, you know. But you know I played
guitar badly, and I commune with nature. I don't care
about clothes. I have the same to this day. My
wife gave me these corduroys and I wear them out
and then I get them fixed. Luckily, I got to
(26:48):
keep all my suits from Sex in the City, so
I can look dapper if I want. And I haven't
bought a suit sentence. But the fact that people know
me is like the businessman, dapper and all that.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I had to shed so many bad habits to portray
that man because I'm a bit of a slob. The
part taught me a lot actually about he has patience
I'm working on still. He's very modulated. He's very logical
and reasonable and also honest about who he is.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Yes, I always say he.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Never tried to be anything when they go, you know,
he was terrible to carry it. He never tried to
be anything that he wasn't. He was who he was,
which was rich, and he had a life that he liked, yep.
And he had boundaries, but he had you know, he
adored carried and he probably knew that in many ways
(27:48):
they weren't right for each other. But he got a
kick out of her, and he didn't take relationships, it
seems to me in the same way that she did.
I remember at the beginning I said to Jarreing, I said,
can we get away from the suave bola? You know,
you know, would you like some more of this expensive wine?
Maybe I should get you a diamond to make you
(28:09):
feel better? Come on, I mean, my favorite episodes are
when she farts in bed.
Speaker 3 (28:14):
Yeah, great, when we fall in the pond great.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
And really my ultimate favorite were the mud Fights. Yes, Gon,
and that's based a little bit on a true story.
I did have a flirtation with a well known actress
and I gave him the line Michael Patrick Kingey, that's
what makes him good as a writer. I think he
likes to take stuff from you. And I'm not going
(28:38):
to name who that it was, but I said, and
I said, use this line in it.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
I already know what you're gonna say. He can read me,
but I can never.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
But I could never get her that fucked up. So
when we bond at the end, I think is brilliant, brilliant.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
Right, brilliant.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
But that episode was so important for his character, for
mister Big to be vulnerable. Yeah, and you needed to
see him kind of messed up from a woman and yeah, yeah,
kind of groveling and Carrie, I need your help. And
that that's one of my favorite episodes too, because it
was it was such a different It was a role
reversal that we needed to see, and.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
That element is what to me was so missing in
the movies. And of course the other show I don't
even watch, but judging by the episode I was in,
it wasn't anything I was really that interested. In fact,
I cut myself lucky.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
To have died in just like that.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
But you know, as an actor, those are all include
all the TV shows that I've done in New York,
and I'm so lucky to have been in them. Yeah,
but I don't between you and me. Yeah, as an actor,
(29:59):
I don't feel they define my career. And yet I
don't feel i've done I look at a lot of
the great work that's going on. There are so many
good actors out there, and I kind of feel, and
I don't want to put it down, but I kind
of feel, yeah, that was good, and thank god it
provided a livelihood. I've got two kids now and I
put them in college. But as an artist, I don't
(30:20):
think those made it for me. I feel like I
have more to give, and I haven't. I don't think
I've done it. I can think of a few plays
that I've done where there were nights where I felt,
you're an artist, you did something that was moving, you know.
(30:41):
I think of the last week when I did Faustust,
which I got pillared for by the critics. By the way, again,
the whole mister big thing, mister based you know.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
Just you know, yeah, And people don't realize how much
theater you've done.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Yeah, And it was what I set out to do
when I got out to Coramma School until it, you know,
I got Law and Order and didn't look back. But
I've done theater throughout in different spots, you know, wasn't
I mean, listen my heroes growing up. I before I
went to the Neighborhood playoffs, I read a biography of
(31:14):
Lawrence Olivia and that was it for me. Ralph Richardson
and that life in the theater was That's what I wanted.
It just doesn't exist unless you went off to a
regional theater, you know. Three. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't
do that. I didn't really want to do that. I
wanted this romantic idea of what he had. You know,
he's the greatest theatrical actor ever. So I don't feel
(31:36):
like being in popular TV shows really means anything to me?
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Is it not as fulfilling for you?
Speaker 1 (31:43):
No? I'm glad, you know, And that it's meant to
culturally gives it a sort of like geez wow, people
love it and people enjoy it. Why do I feel like,
not that I'm obviously not wasting my time, but it's
and I don't believe in like legacy or any thing
like that, but it's like that little spark inside of
me that goes, yeah, you haven't done it yet.
Speaker 2 (32:20):
I just wanted to before we go on to some
lighter stuff. I want to talk about mental health. I
want to talk about some things that I know are
important to you, and I want to talk about them
through I know what was a challenging chapter, and that's
the me Too chapter and I'm covering me too at
CNN just like everyone else. And you're accused through this process.
(32:45):
You've denied any wrongdoing. You've never been charged. But and
this isn't a podcast where we like relitigate that stuff
at all, but I did want to give you the
opportunity to talk about it, address it, and talk about
what that life changing moment meant for you and your
mental health.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, life changing is a good way of describing it.
I mean, yeah, nothing came of it, and yet being
the focus of a media deluge. I think these writers
know they have the power to change the perception of reality,
and they I just don't think they care because there
(33:27):
wasn't even a cursory vetting of this. Okay, I know
exactly what happened. I know exactly what those articles left out.
There was a line I read somewhere that said people
in who live on the sea and get into a
really rough storm, merchants, big boats, merchant marines or whatever.
(33:49):
They get into a terrible storm, and what do they do.
They turn off the engines and let it and drift
through it till the waters are come to a certain
That's what I had to do, because you can't explain
it away. You can't defend yourself. It just doesn't work
that way. Never explain, never defend outother some line like that.
(34:12):
And I'm the one that put myself in the position
for this to happen because I was reckless, I was immature.
You know. I did the classic mistake I think that
many people do, which is you mistake pleasure for happiness.
I just know that I put myself in that place
to do that out of my actions of being irresponsible
(34:36):
and maybe entitled, I don't know. And I think also
as we talk about the character of mister Big and
how many females loved him, that they felt betrayed that
the actor who played him just ruined this character that
they had all these fantasies about. But it's like, I
was never that that's just a fantasy man, that's just
(34:56):
a character, right, But you know it was importan to them,
and I just chat all over it, I guess, and
you know that's too bad.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
How have you gotten involved in men's mental health?
Speaker 1 (35:08):
Oh, so a lot of things happened that I had
to immediately involve myself in meditation. I love the app Headspace.
It's been a lifesaver for me. I think therapy to
a certain extent work to a point. Bart Morris, who
(35:29):
runs the Lions, then it's called I want to read
you something about what the essence of the Lions then is.
Because he's better than me. Great in the unforgiving terrain
of relationships are primal instincts and adversaries are the lions.
(35:50):
They lurk, sometimes unnoticed and reactions in the crucible of marriage, work, parenting.
Picture it the line of rejection. It's mighty war echoing
telling us to shield ourselves, to distance ourselves from vulnerability, weakness.
It's raw. It can be heard every time we overreach
and feel disrespected. In the lines then program we confront
these beasts, and this has cut off the delicate balance
(36:14):
of love and leadership. When those lions take us down
treacherous paths, we find ourselves lashing out, checking out, or
succumbing to fits of rage. So I like that he
calls them lines, and I know what he means. And
this is the exact opposite of that whole man sphere thing. No,
(36:35):
this is about coming back to your vulnerability, back to
those lions that roar out because of your fears, yes,
fronting them and with other men through their experiences and ours,
and then talking about, you know, steps to take it
and what you can do. One of the things I
(36:56):
had to do. And I don't want to talk about
my marriage too much because my wife's a very private
person and shouldn't need a fuck up like me, you
know from my past actions. But one of the most
important things was writing a letter of apology for my actions.
And it's still not enough. I've probably run away from
a lot of things because you know what you're You're
(37:20):
not gonna drink it away, You're not gonna fuck it away.
You're not gonna work it away, you're not gonna travel
it away. You're gonna have to be in it and
let it be in you, and that's hard to do.
And this whole thing that happened was like the universe
saying you're going to be in this and you're gonna
(37:43):
deal with it, and you're not gonna find you can try,
and then you find out very soon that it doesn't
do that. So life has a way of it seems
from you, the idea that you can't escape from it.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Nobody gets out alive.
Speaker 1 (38:02):
No one gets out alive. But that's what's nice about
the lines den is that you know there's a brotherhood
of us as men talking about our fears.
Speaker 3 (38:11):
Yeah, and it's really important.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
That's not macho or anything.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
It's it's yeah, like vulnerables.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
In marriage and relationships, the way we've used substances, the
way we've run away from ourselves. And I've been running
my whole life in a way without even knowing it,
Like when I said mistaking pleasure for happiness, and you
know I took advantage of it. You know, I guess
(38:40):
after a while though, it's like, dude, you can you
know you're maybe your twenties and thirties, but at your age,
there's no excuse so well.
Speaker 2 (38:52):
I think that that was really vulnerable and accountable and
I appreciate you talking about that. Yeah, I think it
was important, important to talk about it that way. All right,
I want to end on a lightning round. Oh no, no,
you're gonna like it.
Speaker 1 (39:10):
I hear all about your lightning rounds.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Yeah, but you're gonna like it. The first question you're
gonna love. Why do you walk one hundred miles every year?
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Oh? Yeah, Well I talked about my friendships going back
to Jakarta, and there's a group, a couple of men
that I know they come from that who got me involved.
All these people live in Spain and it just seems
insurmountable to walk one hundred miles, and so doing it
(39:45):
and finishing it feels incredibly gratifying and along the way
the friendships deepen, which is very important to me.
Speaker 2 (39:54):
Very cool. Yeah, what is on your Spotify playlist?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
Ah? I'm because I know you do a thing of
an album that you could know.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
You told me so I'm doing.
Speaker 1 (40:07):
I'll just list a little bit. I call this my
Cigar Night perfect First, That's the Way by led Zeppelin,
Great Destiny zero seven, Don't Let It Go Back, My
favorite the brand new Heavies. Day by day you heard
of the brand new Heavies. No old shelter, you gotta
(40:28):
get it. Barcelona, George Ezra, Great without a Song, Frank Sinatra, Great,
Spooky Classics, four Slip Away, Pat Metheny, ramble On, led Zeppelin,
All or Nothing at All, Frank Sinatra, Angelize, Frank Sinatra,
which I sing at the cutting room sometimes. Let me
know when you're in New York if I needed someone,
(40:50):
The Beatles, Carolina, The Beach Boys, Last Tangle in Paris, Gotto, Barbari,
Stormy Classics, four Stone, sole Pit, The Fifth Dimension, One
less Bill to answer, to answer the Fifth Dimension? Love
theme from Chinatown, Till Brawner. Who can I turn to?
Nancy Wilson, You're the only woman, Ambrosia.
Speaker 2 (41:13):
Oh wow, so eclectic.
Speaker 1 (41:16):
Jazz man, Carol King, sit yourself down, Stephen Stills, and
it goes on. But you probably have four great So
it's a lot of different stuff. That's when I'm having
a cigar and a martini.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Yeah it sounds great. Yeah, that's vibe. What's the best
restaurant in New York City to you?
Speaker 1 (41:40):
Jeez gosh, Bella Blue on the eppery side, is great
Italian thing is I've been cooking so steakhouses. I went
to a steakhouse the other day and I said, my
stake's better than this. Oh, I have to say I
liked the Ilios. It was pretty good. I went there
and it was pretty good. Crowded, but still, I like
(42:04):
you heard of them?
Speaker 3 (42:04):
Okay, all right, that's good.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Berkshire's or the City, all right, I gotta have both. Okay,
So yeah, yes your answers, yes, yes, okay. What's your
favorite play?
Speaker 1 (42:23):
I want to see this play in New York ragtime.
I hear it's amazing. Almost any Shakespeare. I saw Zoe
Caldwell and Medea. That was pretty amazing. She directed me
an Hamlet in the late eighties. That and Sweeney todd
(42:46):
Len carry you.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Okay? Good one, yeah, good?
Speaker 1 (42:51):
And there's more, but I'm you know.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
Sure, Okay, this is the last question. It's it's important
to me. We ask it at the end of every podcast.
When is it iced coffee? Season?
Speaker 1 (43:02):
Never?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
It's never always hot coffee?
Speaker 2 (43:06):
Okay, okay, are you espresso? Are you black coffee?
Speaker 1 (43:09):
What are you coffee? With a mix A little bit
of almond milk and regular milk, that's it. My favorite coffee,
believe it round is dunkin Donuts.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
Well that's mine too, is it?
Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Well, I'm from New England, I'm from Boston, so dunkin
Donuts is it for me? I don't know if you
can see I've got.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Just had two a dunk yeah right there.
Speaker 2 (43:34):
Okay, Well, the correct answer is iced coffee season is
year round. But we at least like that. You enjoy
dunkin Donuts coffee?
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Oh? Why is that the correct answer? Year round?
Speaker 2 (43:45):
Because that's that's how I enjoy it.
Speaker 1 (43:50):
Very good.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
I have it in like fifteen degree weather. It doesn't
matter what the weather is. I need ice.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Cl with hot coffee.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
It can be here in the summer.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're just opposite ends of the same coin.
Is what's happening here?
Speaker 3 (44:03):
What sign are you sign?
Speaker 1 (44:07):
Oh? I'm a scorpio.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
Okay, I don't know what that means.
Speaker 3 (44:11):
I don't need okay, perfect.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I love that you asked anyway, Chris, note, this was
really a wonderful conversation and I'm really appreciative that you
had it with me. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (44:24):
Oh I'm glad you have done it. It was great.
Thank you for giving me the space to open up.
Speaker 2 (44:31):
Absolutely, absolutely appreciate it. Next week, on Off the Cup,
as the holidays approach, I talked to comedian Aparna Nanturla
about mental health.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
Yeah, it feels like my anxiety is on its own,
you know, Eat, Pray, Love Journey.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel
Hill and Native Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I
am your host, se Cup. Editing and sound design by
Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts,
(45:12):
Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,
Host
S.E. Cupp
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