December 17, 2025 • 66 mins
It’s the holiday season, and that can often mean a mixed bag for mental health. Between all the joy and merriment (and Hallmark movies), there’s often also the extra burden of shorter days, familial complications, the pressure of expectations, and loneliness. Luckily for all of us who experience that full holiday cheer-to-anxiety spectrum, S.E.’s guest this week is comedian Aparna Nancherla. Aparna has a new special out on Dropout, Hopeful Potato, and she (like so many comedians, it seems) has particularly keen insights about dealing with mental health challenges. She sat down with S.E. to talk about why she is holding the holidays more lightly and why comedy is so great at exploring, as she put it, “the smallness of life that can end up feeling so big.”
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Comedy too, is like, you know, it's a lot of
falling on your feet where it's like when you're first
trying stuff out in front of an audience. You are
always trying stuff out to see if it works. And
it's like sometimes you say a thing of like we
all do this right, an audience is like no, we don't.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh, and then you're like, oh, it catches me.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Okay, great, noted, We'll not say that one out loud again.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
We're coming up on the holidays, and for a lot
of people that is welcome news. It's decorating the house,
it's viby, it's having some time off work. It's family traditions. Maybe,
like us, you take an opportunity to do some giving back,
(00:46):
some philanthropy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Maybe you watch a hundred Hallmark movies for others.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Holidays invite anxiety, depression, all kinds of mental health stress.
There's the stress of shopping and spending money, the looming
threat of family interaction. Sometimes unstructured time off can feel
overwhelming and disorienting and like untethered.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
And then of course there's the weather less daylight.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
There's the sense of dread at New Year's resolutions you
will never fulfill.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
It can be a lot, and I think we should
talk about it.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
And who better to talk about this than a stand
up comedian and self proclaimed board certified depressive. She was
a writer for Late Night with Seth Myers and w
C Matbell. She had her own comedy album, just putting
It out there. You know her from recurring television roles
on BoJack, Horseman and Corporate. You've seen her on Conan,
Master of None, the stand Ups, A Simple Favor. She's
(01:44):
got a new full length special called Hopeful Potato, premiering
this month on Dropout, and she has a knack for
finding comedy in existential despair. Welcome to Off the Cup,
Aparna Ninchurla.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So nice to me, Hi, so nice to meet you too.
I have to tell you I did work for w
CA Mawbell back in the day, and that was my
first comedy writing job period, but also a late night
news show. And I remember seeing your face because we
always had news programs on, and seeing your face on
(02:19):
our screen regularly in the writer's room.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Did you yell at my face on your screen regularly?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think by the end we were too despairing to
Evan Yelle. But and this was pre Trump, so this
was a oh definitely okay Trump, we were not on
the same team. I totally understand this is how it goes.
But I also know Mal because I've done several of
his projects but also just projects with him. And there
was a time he was at CNA right, and I
(02:46):
love him. He's so smart and funny.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
We had.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
We had a really weird one. We had a dinner
at Chelsea Handler's house. Oh boy, that was on camera.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, camera, some shit went down. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
But I'm I'm really excited to have you here, like
I'm excited to have you here for all the reasons
we love having comedians on On Off the Cop because
they're usually particularly good at talking about mental health. Yeah,
which we'll get into, but we also just love to
laugh on a podcast about about mental health because it's
better than crying.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Although we do ask you sometimes, so listen, I want
to talk.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I want to talk to you about you and your
work and and your your arcs and your life and
mental health. But let's just start with the holiday is
where are you and how are you?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
How do you approach this time of year generally. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean it's strange because I think all summer long,
I'm like, oh, it's too hot. I can't wait until
it cools down. And I mean I don't even live
in New York anymore. I live in La now, but
there is still sort of an La winter. I would
say hard quotes, but uh yeah, I think I'm just like, yeah,
(04:03):
I can't wait to kind of cozy in and wetter weather, yes,
wetter weather and you know, a nice latte or whatever.
And then as soon as daylight savings hits, I'm just
like I am a shell of a person every time
it gets dark. Yeah, and you're like cockwork, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's too cold.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
You know those there's like a week before winter and
before summer where you're like your body is not acclimated
to the cold or the heat.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, yes, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Your body is like, oh we're doing this, Oh we're oh,
we're really doing this. It's gonna it's about to get freezing,
and you're like freezing for a week and then you acclimate,
or right before summer you're like so hot and then
you acclimate. I always feel that too, like that desire
for cozy until it gets really fucking cold, and then.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I helps get me to the beach, I.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Know, and I'm now I'm a whimp because it's like
now I'm in southern California and it's like it's not
even cold cold like it is in other parts of
the country. And yet I'm still I don't know. California
cold is like its own brand of because none of
the houses are insulated, so like when the temperature drops,
it is like a different kind of cold. But yeah,
I think I'm just every season I'm a wimp. I
(05:17):
can't handle.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, I can find something wrong with every season. Yes,
do you do anything to prepare for the onslaught of
holiday cheer that assaults us all around this time?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well, that's the weird thing about me, is like I
think I like, I like the tradition of the holidays,
and I like that it's like predictable and there's like,
you know, a sameness to here's the newest slate of
holiday movies. Here's like, you know, the Halloween costumes that
are in this year, And I like all that. I
think fall and winter like I'm on board with on
(05:53):
the surface, but then I'm like, oh, yeah, I forgot
that the flip side of that is that I know,
I don't know, maybe just as biological animals, this is
the time of year when we're like shutting down mentally
and just like things are dying and we are descending
into the earth. So like I forget about that part
of it and I'm never ready.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, what, what are some tips because some of this
is like there are seasonal depression is real, yeah, but
there's also reasons people can get very stressed and anxious
and depressed around the holidays. What do you have any
tips for people and how to get through the holidays.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I think for me, I've just been holding them more lightly.
I don't know if that's just getting older where you're
when you're younger, you're kind of like this magical time
of year it has to live up to how it
is in my head or this idea of how it's
supposed to be. And now I'm just like, well, it
kind of is just like I mean, this sounds a
(06:51):
little jaded, but I'm like, you know, it's just another
day and it's just another time of year that it
doesn't have to look as certain way, doesn't have to
be everyone's ideal of what this time of year is
supposed to be, especially with family stuff. I just feel
like family dynamics are so complicated, and I think many
(07:12):
people this time of year are just like, I don't
look like the Norman Rockwell version of whatever this is
supposed to be, and I feel like a failure. And
it's like, no, I think ninety nine point nine percent
of people are going through some version of that.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I think that's really an important point. It's so much
of this is about expectations, and whether that's the expectation
of like making a perfect dinner holiday dinner or you know,
you know, being perfect in front of your family or
making you know it perfect for your kids or whatever,
like that's just not that's not going to serve you.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well. Yeah, and I don't remember. I think it was
a Russian writer who said something of like every family
is dysfunctional in its own way. And I believe that,
but I also, you know, there is thanks to its
We do see, you know, a peek into some friends
family where you're like, oh, they do all wear matching
(08:07):
pajamas Christmas morning? And they do? They those people are
out there, and you know we have to protect ourselves.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
From them, we do, you know, that's such.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I'm so glad you said that, because a part of
I've pretended to be that that person in that family,
and I've put on I've done the matching pajamas. Okay, okay,
And I.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Feel like you're being so open and vulnerable with me.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Listen, I'm honest if nothing, but but but I feel
like a fraud doing it. And I know I'm cringing
as I'm posting these pictures. I've only done it like
once or twice, Like, oh, people are going to see
this and think like, oh, look how perfect we are,
and that's so.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Gross to me.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, because it's just not true. But like I've pretended
to be that because I live in Connecticut. You have
to try.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You have to try.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
But I'm with you, like, that's that's aggressive. Yeah, that's
like aggressively unrealistic and inauthentic.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
But I understand the impulse because I think we live
in a world that's so out of control that it's
like any measure of control you can have or display
to others is like so comforting.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I think that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And the holidays give you this opportunity, right because there
are like, yeah, rituals and traditions and things you do, Yes,
but I also think like there's something to the routine
and regimen of regular life. Like before the holidays start,
we had Mark Duplas on and he talks a lot
about his systems, and I've actually picked up some of
(09:40):
his systems, and he and I talked recently offline about
like keeping those systems up on vacation, which is hard.
It's hard to you know, all the things that you
do in your you know, Monday through Friday. Yeah, it's
tough to always do that on vacation. And sometimes the
unstructured time of the holidays takes me out of my
systems and it can just throw everything off. And it's
(10:03):
supposed to be that break from the daily yeah rhyme yea.
Sometimes the daily grind's keeping you on track.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah. I mean, I think maybe I heard this in
therapy recently, but my therapist was saying that it takes you,
like when you go on vacation, it actually takes you
twelve days for your nervous system to like fully reset,
for it to understand you're like in a different mode.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So it's like you just.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, that's what I That was her point. It's like
by the time your body understands it's okay to relax,
you have been back at work for five days, you
know what I mean? Like this system is rigged against us,
so I don't know. Like, and I also am self employed,
so I don't even really have a day where I'm like,
(10:52):
this is my day off. Like I can't I can't
not be checking my email every day, even though I
don't want to be doing that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Say, that's the bitch of the of the I'm self
employed as well. Yeah, you know I have employers, but
like I've got many of them, and I can take
work and not take work. And yes, yeah that can
be really tough too, because I could be working at
eleven PM, right I do. I do CNN shows all night.
(11:20):
I could be working at five am. I could be work.
I could have nothing to do during the day, or
I could have a really full day. It's just different
all the time, and it's hard to when you were
coming up on a vacation or a holiday, it's time.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
It's tough to be like, well.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Here's how I'm going to structure this, and here's how
I'm gonna am I really turning off all my all
my things.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know that I can do that.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I mean I remember very clearly, like maybe last year,
the week between Christmas and New Years, just being like
what's everyone doing? Like, you know, just everything goes quiet
and just like what are other people up to? It's
kind of like when I was a kid, where there
were we weren't hyper connected all the time, and I
was always just like I wonder what other people are doing?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
There's yeah, yeah, are there any holiday movies you like
to watch every year?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I mean I am a tried and true home alone fan,
Like I saw it at a very pivotal time in childhood,
and I think it just has stuck with me as
a classic movie, not even just a holiday movie, like
a movie in general. Yeah, I am kind of a
sucker for whatever cheesy Hallmark or you know other holiday
(12:32):
movie you throw at me. I know they're kind of fluffy,
but I think there's just a comfort in the the
template of them. You like, you know, know what the
formula is, and they're gonna feed you that maybe and
feel good. Yeah. Yeah. The writing, you're like, you know what,
this isn't the writing I would I would have turned
(12:52):
in for a script. But that's fine.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
That's fine, but Lacy Sebert does a great job every time.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh my god, hot Frosty. Did you see that her
latest offering to the cannon? So good.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
We know what we're getting, which is which is nice?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yes, And I'm an anxious person and so I like predictable,
I like rewatchable. Yes, so I totally get that. What
is our feeling about love actually? Because I feel like
it went from uncontroversially beloved to suddenly problematic and like
the last four or five years or so, because we
(13:29):
have to ruin everything with over analysis.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But I saw a Reddit thread recently.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
It was titled Love Actually is a disgusting movie and
its toxic.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Portrayal of love? What are we?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
What do we feel about love? Love Actually? Oh wow?
I have not watched it recently, so I cannot clearly
remember all the plot lines, but I'm assuming it was
some dynamic that was not a healthy the model of
a healthy relationship or something.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
There several but so what, Like, you know, there's the
Boks having an affair with his secretary, gotcha, gotcha chanting
on Emma Thompson, which is not yeah, but okay.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
There's the Colin Firth character the writer.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Whose girlfriend or wife went out stepped out on him,
and so now he's like trying to get with his
Portuguese uh house cleaner.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Like the president is getting with the aid at at
ten down.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Okay, but so what why do all of these relationships
have to be like we approve of them for it
to be a good movie that's really fun to watch
around Christmas?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I don't know, Well, I think it's part of, you know,
this cultural shift that I think we have really turned
a mirror on the past and been like, what are
all the things we can course correct that we were
so dumb and didn't know before? And I think some
of those things are valid. You know, It's like I'm
totally fine with getting rid of a statue of a
Confederate general or whatever it is. But then other things,
(15:01):
it's like a gat I think we can we can
agree that this one is not a huge.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
A place in time and yeah, yeah, you know, yeah,
it's it can be exhausting, yes to revisit.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, and also kind of like Okay, I mean I
see your points, but I'm still gonna watch.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And but and yeah, I was listening to your Blue
Woman Group podcast with Jacqueline Novak and oh Wow, let's
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
In this particular one.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
You're talking about how a sunny day can sometimes be
worse when you're depressed, because it just makes the contrast
even more stark, right between how you're feeling and the
outside world and how you're supposed to feel on a
beautiful sunny day, which is both funny and profound. I
think the holidays can have a similar effect on depression,
(15:52):
with this like tangible forced joy and you know, everywhere
around you, and that just kind of can make you
feel even worse.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I mean, I you know, I have friends who
really love like Disney and Disneyland and Disney World, and
that's kind of the same issue I have with those
types of places where I'm just like everyone is smiling
so hard it feels like their teeth are going to crack.
Like it's just it feels too much like we're avoiding something,
(16:22):
Like it's like a family dinner where you're like working
so hard to make it seem like everyone's having a
good time and you're not addressing I don't know the
fact that the dog died or something horrible under the surface.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
We are all here at Disney avoiding something going on
back home.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah. Yeah, it's so I don't know, like, and I
think that's part of my own brains problem. It's like,
because you know, sometimes if you suffer from depression, you're
just like more stuck in reality mode all the time.
And I think the happiest people have a little bit
of delusion that keeps them kind of so.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Not going a long Yeah, so nice tome on, Okay,
I want to talk about you. I always like to
start by asking what kind of kid were you.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I was a very introverted kid. I was very shy.
I lived a lot in my head. I was pretty
sheltered I had I was raised in the suburbs of DC.
I had two immigrant parents who were doctors, and I
think they were kind of like, you know, trying to
(17:40):
figure things out at the same time as I was
in a way. And yeah, I mean I would say
I was kind of the kid who was writing a
lot in my journal. I was reading stories aloud to
an audience of stuffed animals. Yeah, like I was. Yeah,
I was. I was a kid who was kind of
like my inner world it was much richer than maybe
(18:01):
my outer world.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I lived in well, I lived in Old Town.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, when I was working in Washington.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We had our son in living in Old Town.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
You know, tell me if you enjoyed growing up there,
because I know a lot of people who grew up
there and they have sort of like mixed feelings because
like proximity to d C is is weird. It's clear
in so many ways because you know, there's so much
history and and but it's weird to be in a
government town. There's there's a lot of turnover, a lot
of people coming, you know, in and out, a lot
(18:36):
of smart people, but also a lot of gross people
because politics. Yeah, and like people say, there's a lot
of history in DC, not a lot of culture. Like
how was your experience growing up in DMV area?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I have to say I didn't hate it, like I remember,
you know, I feel like I had two worlds, which was,
you know, the world of and kind of a more
Western heavy focus. And then you know, my parents would
take me to a bunch of cultural events and like
we grew up going to a Hindu temple, and so
(19:14):
I think I also had a very like South Asian
centered upbringing in a way. So I think it gave
me a taste of kind of more than just like
one world and that made it maybe more dynamic because
I know a lot of other people who grew up
in like the Virginia suburbs who were like, this is boring,
there's nothing going on here. And I think I got
(19:34):
a little bit more than that. But but I understand
because I know people from my high school still live there,
and I'm like, well, I don't think that would be
for me necessarily.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, I okay, I'm going to ask you two questions
at once because I feel like they might be related. Okay,
when do you first feel funny? And when do you
first feel depressed or anxious?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Oh? Wow, I first feel funny. I come to comedy
very much from a writer's mindset, So I think when
I have a bunch of ideas that I'm excited about,
or they like one comes after the other. That's like
when I feel most kind of jazzed and like ready
to go and kind of like oh my god, like
the world seems like so full of possibility and like
(20:20):
just these funny little notions I have. And then I
think feeling depressed or anxious is absolutely the opposite of that,
where it's like I either feel a crushing weight of dread.
That's generalized, not even to not even going to point
to a specific thing, and or I just feel like
(20:41):
so stuck and stagnant and kind of like what am
I doing? I can't even think straight, Like I just
don't even really understand why any of us get up
in the morning. Like it's a very it's very stark sides.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Of the coin contrast, I understand that. Yes, let me
rephrase this lightly. At what age do you first feel funny?
And at what age do you first feel some mental
health issues creeping in? I?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I mean, I honestly think I've always struggled with mental
health issues. I just didn't have the words for it.
Early on, there wasn't like a huge conversation around mental
health like there is now. I think my parents especially
were not equipped in like even thinking of the idea
of going to therapy or like looking closer at that,
(21:37):
my mom actually struggled with anxiety pretty profoundly when she
first moved to this country, So she actually had, you know,
had some treatment for some of her anxiety and stuff,
and she just like didn't tell me that until I
was much older. So it's interesting how we kind of
think we're protecting our kids in a way, but it's
(21:59):
really like not necessarily doing that.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
No, and my therapist, I've said, I've said this before
on the pod. My therapist has said, like do not
pretend for your kids. Yeah, you're always fine, Like an
age appropriate way is like let him in to this journey. Yeah,
and so he knows my mom doesn't have all the answers.
Sometimes she needs help. It's okay, that's for help, or
to talk openly about this, But the first instinct is
(22:25):
always to like, he doesn't need to know any of this,
he's right, right, right, what is actually? Yeah, I know
because I decided to let you into that later.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I think it was as I opened up about it,
I think she felt more comfortable than being like, yeah,
this is actually something I've dealt with my whole life
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, So I think that's maybe the positive side of it.
It's like, you know, your discomfort or own journey maybe
gives people an opening to kind of disclose their journey
to you or makes it feel safer.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
That's what we do here.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, you know, I'll always go I'll go first.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, I don't care, but maybe it lets someone else
just have the conversation too, Because I always say, when
you talk about mental health, it makes it easier to
talk about mental health.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah. And it's also interesting because I just feel like
it's so not a linear journey. It's not like, oh,
I learned I was depressed and then I went to
therapy and now I'm no longer depressed. It's like such
a stops and starts, like you have a season that's great,
and then you followed by a season that you're like, oh,
we're back here again. Yeah. So I think it's interesting too,
(23:40):
where it's like where you're meeting people in your journeys,
because I've had times when I feel like much better
or like more functional, and then I'm like, is that it? Am?
I like out the other side and it's.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Like, yeah, my cured.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Oh no, there's no yeah, yeah, no, sorry, no, no nope.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
What kind of anxiety do you you struggle with?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I it's well, I know we were briefly talking about
paramenopause before we got we started recording, but I would
say the nature of it has really changed since entering paramenopause.
Like before, I would say my anxiety lived much more
in my brain and it would be like racing thoughts,
not being able to kind of think straight, you know,
(24:24):
just some physical symptoms like shaking or just like nerves
and like butterflies, and you know, maybe feeling really tired.
But now it's like so much more in my body,
like I you know, I started getting panic attacks, which
I've never had before. And I'm such a nervous flyer
(24:44):
now and that was never my thing. It would more
be about performing or letting people down. Yeah, it feels
like my anxiety is on its own, you know, Eat
Prey love journey.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Similarly, I was always you know and anxious, like anxious overachieving.
You know, I am I performing well for me? Am
I performing well for everyone else around me? And meeting expectations?
Can I am I beating expectations?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Right?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
But then I got like the catastrophizing totally took over
everything I did.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
It was twenty four to.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Seven at my worst, the catastrophizing was twenty four seven.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
It was around every corner.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
It always ended in the death of my child or
someone close to me, Like it wash you know, I
mean that's paralyzing, and it gets you get so irrational
with thoughts like I'd look at a plane, is that
going to crash into my house right now, like definitely
not yeah, not.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
But it's like once you get on that track, it's like.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You can't close the door. The door gets really hard
to close. And then it's a battle of I'm never
gonna be able to close the store? Do I run
through the door, do I walk through the door? Like
how am I gonna approach the inevitable? Yeahory catastrophic thought,
interestive thought. And that's been the hardest part for me.
(26:13):
But that only happened to me like in my forties.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yes, yes, I feel like mine changed. And then you know,
the wildfires happened here earlier this year, and I think
that just like kicked my anxiety into overdrive where there
was like a whole you know time where people are
like is the air safe? You know, are we should
we even be here right now? And then for me
(26:37):
that like pivoted into suddenly being like, well and now
there were fires. Of course there's now gonna be an earthquake.
Like I it's like you're saying, it's like once the
door is open, you it's really hard to scale it back.
I mean, I think it was just for me what
helped was time. But when you're in it it's really hard.
(26:58):
You're really paralyzed frequently well.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
And your body learns from the shock of that trauma
and it doesn't want to be surprised again.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So then this is me. Then my mind goes.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Into like I'm going to be prepared for every single
scenario that could possibly happen, Yes, which is exhausting and
also irrational.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yes, and impossible because you're always like, oh, I forgot
this other thing.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yep, yep, yeah, And then you worry about not worrying enough,
like am I worrying enough to prevent the thing?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
What have I not thought about or worried about?
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Or then it becomes the worrying is actually what's keeping
me safe.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
If I don't worry, the bad thing's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
If I do worry, I'm inoculating myself from it, which
is again exhausting and irrational.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, that's so funny because I have like a small
joke in my special that's just about how I like
spiral so often that sometimes mid spiral, I'll forget what
I'm spiraling about. Have to do like a quick recap,
you know, just to be like last time on spiral,
just to like catch my up on what I was.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Missed last time.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, that's so great. So because it's true.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
It is true. When do you know you wanted to
do comedy? Was it before college? Was it after college?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
It? I think the seeds were planted during high school.
I mean even I guess to go back to your question,
because I don't think I answered it about when did
I first feel funny? I think I started just as
a kid being like realizing that like silly stuff or
laughing with people was kind of my favorite mode to
(28:35):
be in. And I started, you know, doing more creative things.
I think as a kid, I would write stories and
I think I like to make them kind of sillier, funnier,
kind of absurd. And then my mom was afraid that
I was such a shy kid, so she put me
in public speaking classes when I was pretty young because
(28:56):
she was like, this is a you know, useful soft
skill that you should get early. And I remember one
of the first times I felt funny in front of
a crowd was I After taking these classes, I entered
a community through our temple, entered a community youth speech competition,
(29:18):
and I remember my speech was the only funny one
out of like everyone else wrote kind of a more
serious thing about you know, maybe bigotry or like a
more staid topic, and then I wrote about, you know,
I basically did a takedown of Bollywood movies because my
parents would make me watch them at home and I
was kind of resentful about it. So I kind of
(29:38):
just put all the pent up resentment into a speech
and I remember it went down really well and I
ended up winning. And I think that was maybe the
first time I was like, oh, okay, comedy is a
little bit of a superpower in that it can really
like get people on your side in a way that
I hadn't experienced before.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, ye, were your parents approving of you wanting to
be a comedy writer or stand up comedian for a job?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I think similar, I mean similar to me. I started
comedy pre YouTube. I think maybe MySpace was the big
platform when I started. So I don't think the accessibility
or the knowledge that like anyone can enter this field,
anyone can be an entertainment definitely, I did not know that.
(30:29):
I think I was like, you know, it's like the circus.
Your dad was a comedian, you become a comedian, Like
it's not just something anyone off the street can do so.
I think I in high school, I started you know,
maybe watching more SNL and Conan and some late night
and I had friends who would give me comedy albums,
and I think that started to make me understand that, oh,
(30:53):
this is a world that you can kind of align
yourself to work toward. Like anything else, how do you
break in? Yeah, I started doing I mean I went
to college in Western Massachusetts, but then I moved back
to d C after college, and I just started doing
open mics. I mean I first went with a friend
who also was interested in doing it, and we both
(31:17):
tried it out. And I don't know, I'm really I mean,
oddly enough, I think during college I had sort of
like a crash with the depression. I had to take
time off, and that was when I first went on antidepressants.
And I really think that initial boost for antidepressants was
what kind of gave me the I don't know, the
(31:41):
permission to try something so wildly outside my comfort zone.
And yeah, I mean yeah, I might have to thank
prozac for my whole career.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, was anyone helpful to you in getting your start
in comedy? I'm sure along the way lots of people
(32:16):
have been, but when you're just starting, was anyone there
too that you really remember being super helpful?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I mean the very first open mic I ever went to,
a good friend came with me and so that felt
very safe or safer. So and she's still been, like,
you know, one of my biggest supporters and has come
to my shows over the years, So she's definitely like
someone I would put up there. And then in terms
(32:43):
of just like in the comedy world, I think the
peers you come up with are you are kind of
all succeeding and failing together, So I think that they
are kind of your learning from them. They're learning from you,
they're your colleagues. But I think with art sometimes it
can feel deeper than that in a way, and some
(33:03):
of them become you know, your close friends, and so
that would also be like a core group I would
I would say influence me. And then also just like
people you respect. Like one thing with comedy is like
as you're starting, you get the opportunity to open for
acts that are coming through town, and I got to
work with some of my heroes, and I think they
(33:24):
I mean, they say never meet your heroes, but I
would say with comedy, people more often than not. They
are very lovely grounded people in my experience, and I
think just you know, like someone you look up to
or have only seen on like TV or listen to
their album, being like, oh hey, you're really funny, like
you know, keep going like that makes all the difference
(33:46):
when you're new and young and still figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Who's someone that did that for you that you really respected.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I mean, Maria Bamford is a comedian that's like, I mean,
really open mental health. I think in a way that
I don't think any other comedian has to the degree
that she does. And she's also maybe one of the
nicest people to walk this earth. So she really is
like one of those people where you're like, I feel
lucky that you exist, and that the fact that I
(34:18):
also know you and I've worked with you and like,
you know, we're friendly like that, it sometimes feels inconceivable.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yeah, yeah, surreal, right yeah yeah. So a part of
my business is a mess. Cable news politics just a mess.
You know, we're we're contracting, nobody's watching us. We're also
being swallowed up by these like giant conglomerates, and so
like three tech pros run run news, which is really scary.
(34:47):
What's the state of your business? How is comedy doing
right now?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I mean, I would say we're having our own upheaval
and turmoil. I think it's become more polarized in that.
I think there's you know, there's a side of comedy
now where it's like we're not allowed to say anything anymore,
Like I'm just speaking my truth and it happens to
be throwing your group under the bus.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
It's there's that end of things of just like I
want to be mean, and I want a safe space
to be mean, and then and then you know, the
other side of like why do we maybe have other
voices at the table and and have you know, some
new ways of looking at this art form that's still
(35:34):
a relatively young art form and has room to evolve.
So I think there is a bit of an identity
crisis in comedy as well. And I think to your
point about just the state of the media landscape, I
think the same thing even with like this stand up
special I have coming out, like it's coming out on
(35:55):
a newer platform called Dropout that that's basically by the
same people as College Humor, but they you know, decided
to create their own avenue for putting out stuff, and
they have a very loyal fan base. And but just
to the speak to the fact that there are so
many avenues now for putting out work, and some of
that is just comedians putting their specials on YouTube because
(36:18):
it's much harder to sell it to HBO or Netflix
or you know, Amazon. So I think people are a
little also directionless in terms of like what steps do
I take to move forward in my career other than
what everyone thinks they should be doing, which is putting
more reels on Instagram talks build and yeah, build an
(36:41):
internet audience.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, very similar.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
I think a lot of overlap in terms of like
how we're all operating inside of these businesses.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Because the extra real estate.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
And the nonlinear paths to doing the job that's all
great accepts, you know, there's anxiety around it, and you
know you start asking, well, is this as good as this?
Is this as legitimate as this? And yes, I've been
doing it this way forever. Now I have to adapt
and am I too old for this?
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yes? You know?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Or is this actually better for me?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
And I need to kind of live leave the old
trappings and the old idea I have in my head
about how this should go, leave that behind and move
move forward. But like there's no no one coming in
with all the answers of how to do it, so
we're all on our own.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I mean I joined substack maybe two years ago now
because I was like, maybe this is the place for me.
And I wouldn't say I've done a great job of
keeping up my substack, but I did see in my
late little substack news feed the other day that was
like Dolly Parton has now joined substack, and I was like, wow,
could could she have predicted that substack would be the next.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Move it is?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I joined too to future proof like yeah, of creating.
And I'm a writer first, and so it's a place
I can write things that I maybe can't.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Write my political columns or whatever.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
But every time someone washes out of legacy media, right yeah,
like yeah, welcome.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
To substack, Like, yeah, it's a place you can go.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I don't know if it feels like a full replacement
of the old thing, but it definitely feels like.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
An addendum or like a yes and add on.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
You know. That's that's fun and great and different, And
I hope independent media grows.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I think that's good for everybody.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's just fascinating though, the way
what you're saying with like the tech bros of like yeah,
it's like, okay, now we're all oriented in this direction
towards this one thing. But then it's like, you know,
when was Vine, I don't know, but it's like that
now it's just like a punchline or like a footnote
in cant. I remember when everyone was like trying to
(38:56):
blow up on Vine or like.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Quib was going to be the thing, you know, like
you were all meant to do this like five minute,
ten minutes. Yes, yeah, product content production. For us, it
was news and politics and that didn't work at all.
But like we're all trying to figure it out. And
you're right, some of these things were investing a lot
in right now, could be on the cutting room floor
(39:21):
of history in like a year.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, And not to say that that doesn't make them
valid in the moment, but I just think things move
so quickly now that it's hard to know what to
invest in because you're like so hard, could not exist
in a year.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
It's so hard THERI odd comedy fest your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I was not asked, so you didn't have to make
the more in the moral judgment that decision I think,
I mean personally, I just don't think I would have
wanted to do that. I don't know, like I I
think I I have a hard time wrapping my head
around unless you really needed the money, like being like, yeah,
(40:06):
this seems like a cool thing, I should sure.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah, I mean I guess if you're like, when else
would I go to Saudi Arabia? I would, you know
what I mean, Like, I don't. I just have a
hard time putting myself in the mindset of like, yeah,
this seems fine, nobody's gonna nobody's gonna have any thoughts
about me doing this.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, Yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
That.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I was mixed on that.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
You know, Yeah, I have certain lines that I won't cross.
There's money I won't take, for sure, Yes, that's probably one.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I'm not taking Saudi money.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, But but I also wondered, like, you know, for
someone to say, well, listen, we're we're going there to
show what we what what our sort of.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
What our cultural value you are?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah, and you know, I guess you could make that argument,
but like, do that from here?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Do that from here.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, yeah, okay, comedians hosting award shows. We just had
Nate BERGETSI do the Emmys. I've loved when Ricky Gervais
hosted the Golden Globes. Nikki Glazer just hosted the Golden Globes.
And of course you know we've had like Billy Crystal
and yeah, for years he was so great, Chris Rock,
Kevin Hart. What makes a good award show host? What
(41:29):
makes a bad one?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I I just think even if you're going to kind
of tank or because you know, I think there have
been some that have not gone over as well as others. Yes,
I think if you are if you as a comedian,
know what you're there to do, or like you have
a you know, if it's like I'm gonna maybe take
(41:56):
some shots at people in this room and and they
may or may not be on board with those shots,
like you gotta like then double down on that. You
can't then scale it back and be like, oh no,
you know, my I have bad writers or whatever it is.
You know, you have to like own it, you have
to own it. And but I mean my favorite is
(42:17):
just the silly, like where this is silly. We're all
here having a silly time in our like big floppy
hats or whatever it is, you know, like not not
too self serious, but also not trying to like be
really mean mean people because I'm like, you're already in
an industry where you get a lot of meanness. You
don't need it here.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
You decide to make mental health a big part of
your your creative work and stand up your material. And
I feel like outs, like outside of academia, I feel
like comedy is the only place really you can talk
about your own mental health like all the time publicly,
and it works. I think a lot about Noah con
(43:01):
who's an artist. He's a musician who almost all of
his songs are about his mental health.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
He might be an exception, but.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Like if you're just like if you're like the head
of sales at like a paper company, it'd be really
weird if you were, like, I'm going to lead with
my anxiety and like everything I do and say right.
But comedy, like you can decide I'm going to talk
about my mental health all the time. And it's why
comedians I think have done so much good for mental
(43:28):
health because it you know, maybe Selena Gomez can talk
about it like once or twice, and that's great, that's
impactful too.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, I feel like a comic.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Or a comedian can do it all the time with
the humor being self effacing, being super raw and honest,
and I just I think that's that's really unique to comedy.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think as a comedian who is
really mining from my own life, my personal life, it
is a to kind of really get into the nooks
and crannies of what it is to be a human
in this world and kind of those moments in the
day where they aren't you know, these big news making moments,
(44:12):
Like I think comedy is really good at being like,
isn't it weird how we all have this thought in
the morning, you know, Just like I feel like it's
an art form that really revels in the smallness of
life that can end up feeling so big. So I
think you're right. I think that does make it an
art form that's weirdly suited to kind of how the
(44:35):
minutia in our life ends up sometimes being the biggest
like messaging to our version of what our own reality is.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, and how we feel connectivity to other people and
talking about those small moments much more than the news.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah. I mean the funny thing with comedy too, is like,
you know, it's a lot of fall on your feet
where it's like when you're first trying stuff out in
front of an audience. You're always trying stuff out to
see if it works, and it's like sometimes you say
a thing of like we all do this right, an
audience is like no, we don't.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Oh, and then you're like, oh, it catches me.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Okay, great, great, noted, We'll not say that one out
loud again.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
That's really funny. Yeah, I can just imagine that.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Okay, Yeah, you've done several projects around mental health. I
mentioned Blue Woman Group, which was great, and and Laughing
Matters too. How did how did those two things come about?
Speaker 1 (45:39):
I think well, Jacqueline was, uh, you know, someone I
had admired and looked up to for a long time,
and we started chatting and I think we're both bonded
about just depression, and she wrote like such a great
book about her own experience with depression, and so I
think we wanted to work together and had this link
(46:01):
that already like bonded us. So I think that made
us be like, okay, what can we how can we now? Monetize, Yes,
so how can we prop it off of this tram?
So I think that one was just, yeah, a little
project we kind of test drove together, and then I
think laughing matters. I think they reached out to me
and they were like, you know, we've we're familiar with
(46:23):
your work and think you would be a good addition
to this project.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Such a great idea. Uh do you outside of stand up?
What in popular culture do you think has handled mental
health really well? Like, like do you watch Shrinking or
like Fouria or Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Couple's Therapy? Like what
what do you think really handles this topic?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Well? Yeah, I really enjoy Couple's Therapy. I actually started
watching on a plane.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
But so addictive.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's so addictive. But I'm always curious how they I mean,
I guess you get used to the cameras in the room,
but I'm like, I don't know. If I was in therapy,
I would be so but.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Let's talk about this because I love talking about couples therapy. Yeah,
and doctor Orna. We're trying to get doctor Orna on
the show because I just think she's trying to get
her on Magical What is it about Okay, I'll tell
you what it is about Couble's therapy for me, which
is really dark. It's an ugly side of me. But
this is what I love about it.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
It's the justice.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
It is the justice of having a third party in
the room, Dr Worry, Yes, be able to say very clearly,
which she wouldn't phrase it this way, but you know,
pointing out the way you're talking is terrible, or this
is your your problem, you are doing this, you are
making this situation worse. And she doesn't say it like that, right,
(47:51):
but the justice of like we've all been in an
argument with a significant other or someone and wished someone
was there to be like a no, no, no, no, you're
definitely crazy and she's right, or vice versa.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
And it's just having that like that honest voice in.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
I know and also to see I mean not to generalize,
but to see that exact situation playing out and then
you see the let's be honest, usually the man, if
it's a head relationship, just double down and like refuse,
even with another person saying reaffirming and still being like no,
(48:32):
You're like, well, this is interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
I love it, Like, yeah, are you thinking of Mal
because I always think of Maul. Yeah yeah, right, okay,
yeah yeah yeah, and Mao did this to himself. Okay,
Mal asked for this, but like, yeah, and sometimes some
of these relationships are great and you like both people
and you really want them to work it out, and
sometimes you're just like I hope this ends and worse.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah yeah, I know, I know, You're just like I don't.
I don't get it. I mean, I get we've all
been a relationship where it's like, maybe this isn't the
best for me, but yeah, I know when you're seeing
them like in therapy, really hashing it out, you're like,
get out.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, you don't have to keep doing this to each other.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah, okay, sorry I interrupted you you like couples therapy,
anything else that you like that handles mental health.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
I mean, I'm gonna be honest. I feel like I
both don't watch as much comedy as I think people
think comedians watch, and I don't watch a bunch of
like a lot of mental health stuff because I think
I'm I think it's the sort of thing you like,
you want to escape what you're living in. So agree,
so I'm watching I don't know what am I watching
(49:41):
I guess I started Pluribus, which maybe there's a mental
health aspect to that, but otherwise maybe selling Sunset, which
is probably a travesty to mental health.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
No, no, no, I love reality television. I watch a lot
of Bravo because it is an escape. And like I
tried to watch Shrinking and it was actually very uncomfortable.
I didn't like the way they dealt with with mental
health and I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Get outside of myself.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's to that point, Like
you know, people always say comfort TV. I think there's
been a whole movement in recent years of discomfort TV,
where almost the point is to make you a little uncomfortable,
and I think everyone has a different line of like yeah,
this is what that is uncomfortable for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Oh that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Because Nate, I don't know, if you've watched any of
Nathan Fielder's work, I think he really doulves into maybe
making you feel like, oh, I don't know if I
could watch this.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
I don't want to be I don't want to be uncomfortable.
I'm uncomfortable ninety nine percent of my day in my
own skin. When I'm escaping into some kind of something creative,
I want to be super comfy, comfy and yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
I have a question for you. Are you a horror
movie person at all?
Speaker 3 (51:06):
You know, I'm not not. I don't get scared by
scary movies. I find them silly. Yes, mostly so I
get I'm very into like a good thriller, but it
has to be like a psychological.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Thriller, a random horror movie.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Like it's just silly to me, and it doesn't make
me anxious. It just I'm like, what this is done?
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yeah, I think I'm also very much thriller. Psychological thriller
is my cat nip. But I was just listening to
a podcast about like how a lot of anxious people
actually find horror movies kind of cathartic because it's like
a scary situation, but it's like you you know how
it plays out, or you're like and you know it's
not gonna happen to you because you don't believe in ghosts,
(51:47):
so they actually like are attracted to them.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
That's so interesting. Yes, that's not the thing for me.
The things I have.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
To avoid are like.
Speaker 3 (51:58):
Real world scenarios that involve harmon kids. Well, yeah, you know,
or like a real world scenario I could be in
that would that would be right, really really trauma traumatizing
if I couldn't be in it.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
And I'm not worried about this thing happening. I can
usually watch it.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
But like that's why reality is just because it just
lives up here. It's so superficial, and you know, I
know I'm not going to be an idiot like some
of these people are. You know, I'm not going to
make these mistakes, so it doesn't like get to my
nervous system.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, though I find it so strange now how it
kind of bleeds into you know, It's like you'll watch
this show, but then people will be like, oh yeah,
but on her social media she's actually not talking to
her anymore. And I'm like, wait, so which reality is
the reality? You know, like it's all so blurry now.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Yeah, I actually don't like that because like.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
I don't either keep it.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
I don't the show outside of the show.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
Outside of the show, Yes, deal with the things that
are happening on camera that I can see, and not
the blogger you met with off camera and the social
media fight you're in with someone else that I can't write.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
It in yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Talk about your new special, Hopeful Potato on Dropout.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, so it's my first hour lenth special. I wrote
a book about imposter syndrome about came out now two
years ago, and when I was working on that, I
took a break from stand up. It just was really
hard to I mean, you're writing, I think, a book
on your own mental health right now, and I don't
(53:53):
want to assume how it's going, but for me, it
was very destabilizing and hard, and it is. I know
you've written other books, but this was my first, and
I think it was just, yeah, difficult in a way
I could not have foreseen. And I took a break
from performing while I was doing that, and then this
special was sort of the culmination of like coming back
(54:15):
to stand up and kind of naming the new place
I was in with like aging and relationship and just
worldview and mental health. And yeah, I would say it's
kind of a little snapshot because I think the material
kind of came together over maybe to two and a
half years, So it's a little snapshot of where I was,
(54:40):
where I've been, where I am now. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
Great, Well, I hope everyone goes and checks it out
before I let you go, I want to do a
lightning round. What's the best thing to do in DC
or the DMVO.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
I would say d C as a very and I
guess I'm biased because I started to stand up there,
but a very under the radar maybe performing arts scene.
I just feel like there's a lot going on with
theater and comedy and dance that I mean, it's it's
you know, available, but I think maybe not everyone is
(55:21):
in touch with it. And so I would say thinks
about it, Yeah, thinks about d C as DC as
that kind of Yeah, So I would say, check out
something in the performing arts realm. And then I also
think there's like beautiful nature in DC that I mean
people also don't maybe associate with just like trails and
(55:42):
beautiful hikes and bikes and yeah, relief.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
It is especially northern Virginia and yes, yes, you know
Arlington and Alexandria like so much, such such great towns
for walking. I you know, I walked everywhere, and when
my son was born, I take them in the stroller
and just walk miles and miles like a lot of Potomac.
Or that's true, it's underrated for that yes, anxiety or depression.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
You can only save one.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
Save one as in, keep it or toss it out.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Are you keeping your anxiety or are you keeping depression?
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Oh? Man, I don't even know what the analogy is.
I'm like, are they like my children? I don't know.
I would say, I mean, maybe it's the time of year,
but I'm gonna say I'm going to keep the depression
get rid of the anxiety, Okay. I like And I
think that might just be that my general mo O
(56:46):
is that I kind of move slower in the world
compared to other people, and I feel like depression is
okay with you moving slower, and anxiety is kind of
like hurry up, hurry up, hurry up. And I'm always
it's like a horrible feeling. It's like the feeling you're
late and I'm always late anyway.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
And and anxiety judges you and like demands like why
aren't you working as hard?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
And depressions like let's stay in bed.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
It's fine, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, h yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
What's the worst vacation you ever took?
Speaker 1 (57:18):
Oh, worst vacation I ever took? How would you answer that?
Because I'm like immediately blanking, well, one.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
That comes to mind for me. Uh, I was going
to Alaska.
Speaker 3 (57:32):
This was my second time in Alaska, and I was
bringing friends and we were going hunting and fishing, and okay,
it requires a lot of you, right, You're out in
the wilderness and fishing. And I got sick, like really
really sick for like the whole trip, and I felt
really responsible for everyone because like I had brought them
and I couldn't do all the things that we were
(57:54):
going to do together. And I literally spent like three
days in bed. That was great. One vacation I went
for my twenty fifth birthday.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
We went to Rome.
Speaker 3 (58:06):
My bags went to Osaka, though, and so for the
entire trip, I'm like running around Rome.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
I have no money.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
I'm totally poor, trying to buy like clothes off the street,
like from like street clothes just to be there.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
I mean, I'll piggyback off of that. This isn't really
fair answered your question. But I once did and this
isn't sort of half work half vacation. But I did
a comedy like a comedy themed cruise or like a
themed cruise that was like for comedy, and they lost
my bag as soon as I got there. They couldn't
(58:44):
find it, and yeah, so I had to wear like
my clothes, which is not really my vibe. That's a
category you would yeah, yeah, I was like, that's funny.
Speaker 3 (58:57):
I also did a themed cruise, a conservative themed cruise.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
I hated it.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
I hated that.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
God. I mean, my thing with cruises that I find
difficult is you cannot leave.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, you're trapped.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
You cannot leave.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
You're trapped.
Speaker 3 (59:11):
And in your case and in my case, I was
trapped with like fans who were there to you know,
be with me. Yeah, but on the job and like vacationing,
which is so Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
And in fairness for mine there they were really lovely
fans and they wouldn't bother you. But something about you know,
being in line to get you know, oatmeal with like
five people who just saw you perform, it's to the
anxiety was rampant with you.
Speaker 3 (59:43):
It was not for my anxiety. What's your favorite sitcom?
Speaker 1 (59:48):
Oh, favorite sitcom? I would go with. This is a
kind of a maybe lesser known show. I hope more
people know it. But it's a British sitcom that some
friend turned me onto. Name called staff Let's Flats. It's
(01:00:10):
a bit of a tongue twister. Say it again, staf
lets flats. I think it's a choice that they wanted
the name.
Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Don't any word that you just said. What's the first
word you said.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Staf st Ah, yes, correct, and that's the name of
the main character. And then let's because it's British.
Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
So rents yes, okay, flats apartments ah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Okay, stat the person is renting out apartments? Is the
name of the show?
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yes, yes, exactly okay, And I mean, based on how
confusing that title is, that is basically the the tone
of the show. It's like a very goofy, absurd kind
of family workplace show about this very in common potent
realtor who's like Cypriot Greek and he works at this
(01:01:07):
realtor firm that his dad wants him to take over.
He's like so bad at it, and it's just such
a dumb, funny show that's like kind of unlike anything
else you've seen in common.
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
I'm going to check that out. I love British TV.
I love it British comedies.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yeah me too.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Okay, I'm going to check that out. Go out or
stay in?
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
H stay in? Yeah? I love to stay and I'm
pushing myself to go out more because I think I've
really let it swing too far the other way. And
I have to say, the big joy about going out
is the feeling of getting home. And if you're always in,
you don't get that high of getting home.
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Yeah, I get The biggest rush I ever get is
in canceling plans. Yeah, that is such a high, but
that hot You start to tolerate that the more you
do it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
And yes, so you need you need to go out
in between all of.
Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
The canceling of plants exactly exactly, or you're not canceling
of plants, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Or you're not getting the same rush dopamine hit from it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
The last question we ask at the end of every podcast.
It's super important to me. It is my culture, it
is my spirituality. When is it iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
I have to be fully honest. I listen to some
other episodes so I know what the right answer is.
But I also am aligned with that answer, which is
that any time of year is good for ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Well, I appreciate your honesty that you're not pretending, but
I had agreed with you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
You believe that. Sincerely, I do.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
I mean not just because I live in LA I
just think ice coffee is its own drink and it's
not seasonally specific. It's like whenever you want to Oh.
Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
You're correct, and you know that, you know that, But
I'm just I'm just so glad. I always love meeting
another iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Has anyone disagreed with that?
Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Oh yeah, oh oh yeah yeah, and it's we'll get
lots of lots of answers like we why don't drink coffee?
Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Or I prefer tea?
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Or well, ice coffee season is June through August when
the temperature is but x y z or whatever, and
those are all fine, but the wrong, the wrong, the wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Well, Okay, because I opened with honesty, I will continue
my honesty in that I have had to switch to
tea because of anxiety, like my body can't seem to
handle caffeine in the same.
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Way I've had to switch to decaf.
Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Oh it's tragic, it's tragic.
Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
A part of why do we internalize this switch so much?
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Because I, as my producers know, because we have another
podcast called Talking Coffee, where I talked about I made
confession that I had to switch to TEACLF and it
would really bothered me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Why are we so bothered by having to go decaf?
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
I think I just I don't know that. I feel
like there's so few, you know, comforts in this life
and the ritual of coffee and something about just easing
you into the day or welcoming you into the day
when your brain maybe is not the most welcoming place.
Is just yeah, you want you need those things. You
(01:04:42):
need those things to keep going.
Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
So how has it been switching to tea?
Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
It's been fine. I've like, you know what, I throw
so much milk in there. It's like nobody knows what
the drink is by the end. But yeah, I've I've adjusted.
But it is like if I go to coffee shop,
I'll just get a hit off the smell at this
pace because it's the best smell. It's the best smell.
Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
Aparna, thanks so much. This was such a great conversation.
I loved it. I loved every minde.
Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
I really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yeah, and thanks for talking about mental health. You do
a real service.
Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Likewise, coming up next week on Off the Cup, I
talked to Broadway and West End star Marisa Wallace.
Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Everyone's on the feet crime screaming, like going crazy, and
I was like, well, guess when I knew.
Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
That I had caught fire? I was like, Okay, this
is where I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill, and Native
Land pod. For Off the Cup, I'm your host, Si Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producer
are me Se cop Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate
and review wherever you get your podcasts. Follow or subscribe
for new episodes every Wednesday.
Comedy too, is like, you know, it's a lot of
falling on your feet where it's like when you're first
trying stuff out in front of an audience. You are
always trying stuff out to see if it works. And
it's like sometimes you say a thing of like we
all do this right, an audience is like no, we don't.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Oh, and then you're like, oh, it catches me.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
Okay, great, noted, We'll not say that one out loud again.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
Welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
We're coming up on the holidays, and for a lot
of people that is welcome news. It's decorating the house,
it's viby, it's having some time off work. It's family traditions. Maybe,
like us, you take an opportunity to do some giving back,
(00:46):
some philanthropy.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Maybe you watch a hundred Hallmark movies for others.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Holidays invite anxiety, depression, all kinds of mental health stress.
There's the stress of shopping and spending money, the looming
threat of family interaction. Sometimes unstructured time off can feel
overwhelming and disorienting and like untethered.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
And then of course there's the weather less daylight.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
There's the sense of dread at New Year's resolutions you
will never fulfill.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
It can be a lot, and I think we should
talk about it.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
And who better to talk about this than a stand
up comedian and self proclaimed board certified depressive. She was
a writer for Late Night with Seth Myers and w
C Matbell. She had her own comedy album, just putting
It out there. You know her from recurring television roles
on BoJack, Horseman and Corporate. You've seen her on Conan,
Master of None, the stand Ups, A Simple Favor. She's
(01:44):
got a new full length special called Hopeful Potato, premiering
this month on Dropout, and she has a knack for
finding comedy in existential despair. Welcome to Off the Cup,
Aparna Ninchurla.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
So nice to me, Hi, so nice to meet you too.
I have to tell you I did work for w
CA Mawbell back in the day, and that was my
first comedy writing job period, but also a late night
news show. And I remember seeing your face because we
always had news programs on, and seeing your face on
(02:19):
our screen regularly in the writer's room.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Did you yell at my face on your screen regularly?
Speaker 1 (02:25):
I think by the end we were too despairing to
Evan Yelle. But and this was pre Trump, so this
was a oh definitely okay Trump, we were not on
the same team. I totally understand this is how it goes.
But I also know Mal because I've done several of
his projects but also just projects with him. And there
was a time he was at CNA right, and I
(02:46):
love him. He's so smart and funny.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
We had.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
We had a really weird one. We had a dinner
at Chelsea Handler's house. Oh boy, that was on camera.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Yeah, camera, some shit went down. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
But I'm I'm really excited to have you here, like
I'm excited to have you here for all the reasons
we love having comedians on On Off the Cop because
they're usually particularly good at talking about mental health. Yeah,
which we'll get into, but we also just love to
laugh on a podcast about about mental health because it's
better than crying.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Although we do ask you sometimes, so listen, I want
to talk.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
I want to talk to you about you and your
work and and your your arcs and your life and
mental health. But let's just start with the holiday is
where are you and how are you?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
How do you approach this time of year generally. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean it's strange because I think all summer long,
I'm like, oh, it's too hot. I can't wait until
it cools down. And I mean I don't even live
in New York anymore. I live in La now, but
there is still sort of an La winter. I would
say hard quotes, but uh yeah, I think I'm just like, yeah,
(04:03):
I can't wait to kind of cozy in and wetter weather, yes,
wetter weather and you know, a nice latte or whatever.
And then as soon as daylight savings hits, I'm just
like I am a shell of a person every time
it gets dark. Yeah, and you're like cockwork, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It's too cold.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
You know those there's like a week before winter and
before summer where you're like your body is not acclimated
to the cold or the heat.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, yes, yes, and.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Your body is like, oh we're doing this, Oh we're oh,
we're really doing this. It's gonna it's about to get freezing,
and you're like freezing for a week and then you acclimate,
or right before summer you're like so hot and then
you acclimate. I always feel that too, like that desire
for cozy until it gets really fucking cold, and then.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
I helps get me to the beach, I.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Know, and I'm now I'm a whimp because it's like
now I'm in southern California and it's like it's not
even cold cold like it is in other parts of
the country. And yet I'm still I don't know. California
cold is like its own brand of because none of
the houses are insulated, so like when the temperature drops,
it is like a different kind of cold. But yeah,
I think I'm just every season I'm a wimp. I
(05:17):
can't handle.
Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah, I can find something wrong with every season. Yes,
do you do anything to prepare for the onslaught of
holiday cheer that assaults us all around this time?
Speaker 1 (05:30):
Well, that's the weird thing about me, is like I
think I like, I like the tradition of the holidays,
and I like that it's like predictable and there's like,
you know, a sameness to here's the newest slate of
holiday movies. Here's like, you know, the Halloween costumes that
are in this year, And I like all that. I
think fall and winter like I'm on board with on
(05:53):
the surface, but then I'm like, oh, yeah, I forgot
that the flip side of that is that I know,
I don't know, maybe just as biological animals, this is
the time of year when we're like shutting down mentally
and just like things are dying and we are descending
into the earth. So like I forget about that part
of it and I'm never ready.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yeah, what, what are some tips because some of this
is like there are seasonal depression is real, yeah, but
there's also reasons people can get very stressed and anxious
and depressed around the holidays. What do you have any
tips for people and how to get through the holidays.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
I think for me, I've just been holding them more lightly.
I don't know if that's just getting older where you're
when you're younger, you're kind of like this magical time
of year it has to live up to how it
is in my head or this idea of how it's
supposed to be. And now I'm just like, well, it
kind of is just like I mean, this sounds a
(06:51):
little jaded, but I'm like, you know, it's just another
day and it's just another time of year that it
doesn't have to look as certain way, doesn't have to
be everyone's ideal of what this time of year is
supposed to be, especially with family stuff. I just feel
like family dynamics are so complicated, and I think many
(07:12):
people this time of year are just like, I don't
look like the Norman Rockwell version of whatever this is
supposed to be, and I feel like a failure. And
it's like, no, I think ninety nine point nine percent
of people are going through some version of that.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
I think that's really an important point. It's so much
of this is about expectations, and whether that's the expectation
of like making a perfect dinner holiday dinner or you know,
you know, being perfect in front of your family or
making you know it perfect for your kids or whatever,
like that's just not that's not going to serve you.
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Well. Yeah, and I don't remember. I think it was
a Russian writer who said something of like every family
is dysfunctional in its own way. And I believe that,
but I also, you know, there is thanks to its
We do see, you know, a peek into some friends
family where you're like, oh, they do all wear matching
(08:07):
pajamas Christmas morning? And they do? They those people are
out there, and you know we have to protect ourselves.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
From them, we do, you know, that's such.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
I'm so glad you said that, because a part of
I've pretended to be that that person in that family,
and I've put on I've done the matching pajamas. Okay, okay,
And I.
Speaker 1 (08:27):
Feel like you're being so open and vulnerable with me.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Listen, I'm honest if nothing, but but but I feel
like a fraud doing it. And I know I'm cringing
as I'm posting these pictures. I've only done it like
once or twice, Like, oh, people are going to see
this and think like, oh, look how perfect we are,
and that's so.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
Gross to me.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, because it's just not true. But like I've pretended
to be that because I live in Connecticut. You have
to try.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You have to try.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
But I'm with you, like, that's that's aggressive. Yeah, that's
like aggressively unrealistic and inauthentic.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
But I understand the impulse because I think we live
in a world that's so out of control that it's
like any measure of control you can have or display
to others is like so comforting.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
I think that's it.
Speaker 3 (09:20):
And the holidays give you this opportunity, right because there
are like, yeah, rituals and traditions and things you do, Yes,
but I also think like there's something to the routine
and regimen of regular life. Like before the holidays start,
we had Mark Duplas on and he talks a lot
about his systems, and I've actually picked up some of
(09:40):
his systems, and he and I talked recently offline about
like keeping those systems up on vacation, which is hard.
It's hard to you know, all the things that you
do in your you know, Monday through Friday. Yeah, it's
tough to always do that on vacation. And sometimes the
unstructured time of the holidays takes me out of my
systems and it can just throw everything off. And it's
(10:03):
supposed to be that break from the daily yeah rhyme yea.
Sometimes the daily grind's keeping you on track.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah. I mean, I think maybe I heard this in
therapy recently, but my therapist was saying that it takes you,
like when you go on vacation, it actually takes you
twelve days for your nervous system to like fully reset,
for it to understand you're like in a different mode.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
So it's like you just.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
Well, that's what I That was her point. It's like
by the time your body understands it's okay to relax,
you have been back at work for five days, you
know what I mean? Like this system is rigged against us,
so I don't know. Like, and I also am self employed,
so I don't even really have a day where I'm like,
(10:52):
this is my day off. Like I can't I can't
not be checking my email every day, even though I
don't want to be doing that.
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Say, that's the bitch of the of the I'm self
employed as well. Yeah, you know I have employers, but
like I've got many of them, and I can take
work and not take work. And yes, yeah that can
be really tough too, because I could be working at
eleven PM, right I do. I do CNN shows all night.
(11:20):
I could be working at five am. I could be work.
I could have nothing to do during the day, or
I could have a really full day. It's just different
all the time, and it's hard to when you were
coming up on a vacation or a holiday, it's time.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
It's tough to be like, well.
Speaker 3 (11:34):
Here's how I'm going to structure this, and here's how
I'm gonna am I really turning off all my all
my things.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know that I can do that.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I mean I remember very clearly, like maybe last year,
the week between Christmas and New Years, just being like
what's everyone doing? Like, you know, just everything goes quiet
and just like what are other people up to? It's
kind of like when I was a kid, where there
were we weren't hyper connected all the time, and I
was always just like I wonder what other people are doing?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
There's yeah, yeah, are there any holiday movies you like
to watch every year?
Speaker 1 (12:10):
I mean I am a tried and true home alone fan,
Like I saw it at a very pivotal time in childhood,
and I think it just has stuck with me as
a classic movie, not even just a holiday movie, like
a movie in general. Yeah, I am kind of a
sucker for whatever cheesy Hallmark or you know other holiday
(12:32):
movie you throw at me. I know they're kind of fluffy,
but I think there's just a comfort in the the
template of them. You like, you know, know what the
formula is, and they're gonna feed you that maybe and
feel good. Yeah. Yeah. The writing, you're like, you know what,
this isn't the writing I would I would have turned
(12:52):
in for a script. But that's fine.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
That's fine, but Lacy Sebert does a great job every time.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Oh my god, hot Frosty. Did you see that her
latest offering to the cannon? So good.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
We know what we're getting, which is which is nice?
Speaker 3 (13:08):
Yes, And I'm an anxious person and so I like predictable,
I like rewatchable. Yes, so I totally get that. What
is our feeling about love actually? Because I feel like
it went from uncontroversially beloved to suddenly problematic and like
the last four or five years or so, because we
(13:29):
have to ruin everything with over analysis.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
But I saw a Reddit thread recently.
Speaker 3 (13:33):
It was titled Love Actually is a disgusting movie and
its toxic.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Portrayal of love? What are we?
Speaker 1 (13:39):
What do we feel about love? Love Actually? Oh wow?
I have not watched it recently, so I cannot clearly
remember all the plot lines, but I'm assuming it was
some dynamic that was not a healthy the model of
a healthy relationship or something.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
There several but so what, Like, you know, there's the
Boks having an affair with his secretary, gotcha, gotcha chanting
on Emma Thompson, which is not yeah, but okay.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
There's the Colin Firth character the writer.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
Whose girlfriend or wife went out stepped out on him,
and so now he's like trying to get with his
Portuguese uh house cleaner.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Like the president is getting with the aid at at
ten down.
Speaker 3 (14:29):
Okay, but so what why do all of these relationships
have to be like we approve of them for it
to be a good movie that's really fun to watch
around Christmas?
Speaker 1 (14:37):
I don't know, Well, I think it's part of, you know,
this cultural shift that I think we have really turned
a mirror on the past and been like, what are
all the things we can course correct that we were
so dumb and didn't know before? And I think some
of those things are valid. You know, It's like I'm
totally fine with getting rid of a statue of a
Confederate general or whatever it is. But then other things,
(15:01):
it's like a gat I think we can we can
agree that this one is not a huge.
Speaker 3 (15:08):
A place in time and yeah, yeah, you know, yeah,
it's it can be exhausting, yes to revisit.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
Yeah, and also kind of like Okay, I mean I
see your points, but I'm still gonna watch.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
And but and yeah, I was listening to your Blue
Woman Group podcast with Jacqueline Novak and oh Wow, let's
talk about it.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
In this particular one.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
You're talking about how a sunny day can sometimes be
worse when you're depressed, because it just makes the contrast
even more stark, right between how you're feeling and the
outside world and how you're supposed to feel on a
beautiful sunny day, which is both funny and profound. I
think the holidays can have a similar effect on depression,
(15:52):
with this like tangible forced joy and you know, everywhere
around you, and that just kind of can make you
feel even worse.
Speaker 1 (16:02):
Yeah, I mean, I you know, I have friends who
really love like Disney and Disneyland and Disney World, and
that's kind of the same issue I have with those
types of places where I'm just like everyone is smiling
so hard it feels like their teeth are going to crack.
Like it's just it feels too much like we're avoiding something,
(16:22):
Like it's like a family dinner where you're like working
so hard to make it seem like everyone's having a
good time and you're not addressing I don't know the
fact that the dog died or something horrible under the surface.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
We are all here at Disney avoiding something going on
back home.
Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah. Yeah, it's so I don't know, like, and I
think that's part of my own brains problem. It's like,
because you know, sometimes if you suffer from depression, you're
just like more stuck in reality mode all the time.
And I think the happiest people have a little bit
of delusion that keeps them kind of so.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Not going a long Yeah, so nice tome on, Okay,
I want to talk about you. I always like to
start by asking what kind of kid were you.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
I was a very introverted kid. I was very shy.
I lived a lot in my head. I was pretty
sheltered I had I was raised in the suburbs of DC.
I had two immigrant parents who were doctors, and I
think they were kind of like, you know, trying to
(17:40):
figure things out at the same time as I was
in a way. And yeah, I mean I would say
I was kind of the kid who was writing a
lot in my journal. I was reading stories aloud to
an audience of stuffed animals. Yeah, like I was. Yeah,
I was. I was a kid who was kind of
like my inner world it was much richer than maybe
(18:01):
my outer world.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
I lived in well, I lived in Old Town.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
Yeah, when I was working in Washington.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
We had our son in living in Old Town.
Speaker 3 (18:15):
You know, tell me if you enjoyed growing up there,
because I know a lot of people who grew up
there and they have sort of like mixed feelings because
like proximity to d C is is weird. It's clear
in so many ways because you know, there's so much
history and and but it's weird to be in a
government town. There's there's a lot of turnover, a lot
of people coming, you know, in and out, a lot
(18:36):
of smart people, but also a lot of gross people
because politics. Yeah, and like people say, there's a lot
of history in DC, not a lot of culture. Like
how was your experience growing up in DMV area?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
I have to say I didn't hate it, like I remember,
you know, I feel like I had two worlds, which was,
you know, the world of and kind of a more
Western heavy focus. And then you know, my parents would
take me to a bunch of cultural events and like
we grew up going to a Hindu temple, and so
(19:14):
I think I also had a very like South Asian
centered upbringing in a way. So I think it gave
me a taste of kind of more than just like
one world and that made it maybe more dynamic because
I know a lot of other people who grew up
in like the Virginia suburbs who were like, this is boring,
there's nothing going on here. And I think I got
(19:34):
a little bit more than that. But but I understand
because I know people from my high school still live there,
and I'm like, well, I don't think that would be
for me necessarily.
Speaker 3 (19:44):
Yeah, I okay, I'm going to ask you two questions
at once because I feel like they might be related. Okay,
when do you first feel funny? And when do you
first feel depressed or anxious?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Oh? Wow, I first feel funny. I come to comedy
very much from a writer's mindset, So I think when
I have a bunch of ideas that I'm excited about,
or they like one comes after the other. That's like
when I feel most kind of jazzed and like ready
to go and kind of like oh my god, like
the world seems like so full of possibility and like
(20:20):
just these funny little notions I have. And then I
think feeling depressed or anxious is absolutely the opposite of that,
where it's like I either feel a crushing weight of dread.
That's generalized, not even to not even going to point
to a specific thing, and or I just feel like
(20:41):
so stuck and stagnant and kind of like what am
I doing? I can't even think straight, Like I just
don't even really understand why any of us get up
in the morning. Like it's a very it's very stark sides.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Of the coin contrast, I understand that. Yes, let me
rephrase this lightly. At what age do you first feel funny?
And at what age do you first feel some mental
health issues creeping in? I?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
I mean, I honestly think I've always struggled with mental
health issues. I just didn't have the words for it.
Early on, there wasn't like a huge conversation around mental
health like there is now. I think my parents especially
were not equipped in like even thinking of the idea
of going to therapy or like looking closer at that,
(21:37):
my mom actually struggled with anxiety pretty profoundly when she
first moved to this country, So she actually had, you know,
had some treatment for some of her anxiety and stuff,
and she just like didn't tell me that until I
was much older. So it's interesting how we kind of
think we're protecting our kids in a way, but it's
(21:59):
really like not necessarily doing that.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
No, and my therapist, I've said, I've said this before
on the pod. My therapist has said, like do not
pretend for your kids. Yeah, you're always fine, Like an
age appropriate way is like let him in to this journey. Yeah,
and so he knows my mom doesn't have all the answers.
Sometimes she needs help. It's okay, that's for help, or
to talk openly about this, But the first instinct is
(22:25):
always to like, he doesn't need to know any of this,
he's right, right, right, what is actually? Yeah, I know
because I decided to let you into that later.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
I think it was as I opened up about it,
I think she felt more comfortable than being like, yeah,
this is actually something I've dealt with my whole life
as well.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:48):
Yeah, So I think that's maybe the positive side of it.
It's like, you know, your discomfort or own journey maybe
gives people an opening to kind of disclose their journey
to you or makes it feel safer.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
That's what we do here.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Yeah, you know, I'll always go I'll go first.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
Yeah, I don't care, but maybe it lets someone else
just have the conversation too, Because I always say, when
you talk about mental health, it makes it easier to
talk about mental health.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Yeah. And it's also interesting because I just feel like
it's so not a linear journey. It's not like, oh,
I learned I was depressed and then I went to
therapy and now I'm no longer depressed. It's like such
a stops and starts, like you have a season that's great,
and then you followed by a season that you're like, oh,
we're back here again. Yeah. So I think it's interesting too,
(23:40):
where it's like where you're meeting people in your journeys,
because I've had times when I feel like much better
or like more functional, and then I'm like, is that it? Am?
I like out the other side and it's.
Speaker 2 (23:51):
Like, yeah, my cured.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Oh no, there's no yeah, yeah, no, sorry, no, no nope.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
What kind of anxiety do you you struggle with?
Speaker 1 (24:02):
I it's well, I know we were briefly talking about
paramenopause before we got we started recording, but I would
say the nature of it has really changed since entering paramenopause.
Like before, I would say my anxiety lived much more
in my brain and it would be like racing thoughts,
not being able to kind of think straight, you know,
(24:24):
just some physical symptoms like shaking or just like nerves
and like butterflies, and you know, maybe feeling really tired.
But now it's like so much more in my body,
like I you know, I started getting panic attacks, which
I've never had before. And I'm such a nervous flyer
(24:44):
now and that was never my thing. It would more
be about performing or letting people down. Yeah, it feels
like my anxiety is on its own, you know, Eat
Prey love journey.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:56):
Similarly, I was always you know and anxious, like anxious overachieving.
You know, I am I performing well for me? Am
I performing well for everyone else around me? And meeting expectations?
Can I am I beating expectations?
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Right?
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (25:17):
But then I got like the catastrophizing totally took over
everything I did.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
It was twenty four to.
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Seven at my worst, the catastrophizing was twenty four seven.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
It was around every corner.
Speaker 3 (25:32):
It always ended in the death of my child or
someone close to me, Like it wash you know, I
mean that's paralyzing, and it gets you get so irrational
with thoughts like I'd look at a plane, is that
going to crash into my house right now, like definitely
not yeah, not.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
But it's like once you get on that track, it's like.
Speaker 3 (25:53):
You can't close the door. The door gets really hard
to close. And then it's a battle of I'm never
gonna be able to close the store? Do I run
through the door, do I walk through the door? Like
how am I gonna approach the inevitable? Yeahory catastrophic thought,
interestive thought. And that's been the hardest part for me.
(26:13):
But that only happened to me like in my forties.
Speaker 1 (26:17):
Yes, yes, I feel like mine changed. And then you know,
the wildfires happened here earlier this year, and I think
that just like kicked my anxiety into overdrive where there
was like a whole you know time where people are
like is the air safe? You know, are we should
we even be here right now? And then for me
(26:37):
that like pivoted into suddenly being like, well and now
there were fires. Of course there's now gonna be an earthquake.
Like I it's like you're saying, it's like once the
door is open, you it's really hard to scale it back.
I mean, I think it was just for me what
helped was time. But when you're in it it's really hard.
(26:58):
You're really paralyzed frequently well.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
And your body learns from the shock of that trauma
and it doesn't want to be surprised again.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
So then this is me. Then my mind goes.
Speaker 3 (27:09):
Into like I'm going to be prepared for every single
scenario that could possibly happen, Yes, which is exhausting and
also irrational.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
Yes, and impossible because you're always like, oh, I forgot
this other thing.
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yep, yep, yeah, And then you worry about not worrying enough,
like am I worrying enough to prevent the thing?
Speaker 2 (27:28):
What have I not thought about or worried about?
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Or then it becomes the worrying is actually what's keeping
me safe.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
If I don't worry, the bad thing's going to happen.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
If I do worry, I'm inoculating myself from it, which
is again exhausting and irrational.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
Yeah, that's so funny because I have like a small
joke in my special that's just about how I like
spiral so often that sometimes mid spiral, I'll forget what
I'm spiraling about. Have to do like a quick recap,
you know, just to be like last time on spiral,
just to like catch my up on what I was.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Missed last time.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Yeah, that's so great. So because it's true.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
It is true. When do you know you wanted to
do comedy? Was it before college? Was it after college?
Speaker 1 (28:14):
It? I think the seeds were planted during high school.
I mean even I guess to go back to your question,
because I don't think I answered it about when did
I first feel funny? I think I started just as
a kid being like realizing that like silly stuff or
laughing with people was kind of my favorite mode to
(28:35):
be in. And I started, you know, doing more creative things.
I think as a kid, I would write stories and
I think I like to make them kind of sillier, funnier,
kind of absurd. And then my mom was afraid that
I was such a shy kid, so she put me
in public speaking classes when I was pretty young because
(28:56):
she was like, this is a you know, useful soft
skill that you should get early. And I remember one
of the first times I felt funny in front of
a crowd was I After taking these classes, I entered
a community through our temple, entered a community youth speech competition,
(29:18):
and I remember my speech was the only funny one
out of like everyone else wrote kind of a more
serious thing about you know, maybe bigotry or like a
more staid topic, and then I wrote about, you know,
I basically did a takedown of Bollywood movies because my
parents would make me watch them at home and I
was kind of resentful about it. So I kind of
(29:38):
just put all the pent up resentment into a speech
and I remember it went down really well and I
ended up winning. And I think that was maybe the
first time I was like, oh, okay, comedy is a
little bit of a superpower in that it can really
like get people on your side in a way that
I hadn't experienced before.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
Yeah, ye, were your parents approving of you wanting to
be a comedy writer or stand up comedian for a job?
Speaker 1 (30:08):
I think similar, I mean similar to me. I started
comedy pre YouTube. I think maybe MySpace was the big
platform when I started. So I don't think the accessibility
or the knowledge that like anyone can enter this field,
anyone can be an entertainment definitely, I did not know that.
(30:29):
I think I was like, you know, it's like the circus.
Your dad was a comedian, you become a comedian, Like
it's not just something anyone off the street can do so.
I think I in high school, I started you know,
maybe watching more SNL and Conan and some late night
and I had friends who would give me comedy albums,
and I think that started to make me understand that, oh,
(30:53):
this is a world that you can kind of align
yourself to work toward. Like anything else, how do you
break in? Yeah, I started doing I mean I went
to college in Western Massachusetts, but then I moved back
to d C after college, and I just started doing
open mics. I mean I first went with a friend
who also was interested in doing it, and we both
(31:17):
tried it out. And I don't know, I'm really I mean,
oddly enough, I think during college I had sort of
like a crash with the depression. I had to take
time off, and that was when I first went on antidepressants.
And I really think that initial boost for antidepressants was
what kind of gave me the I don't know, the
(31:41):
permission to try something so wildly outside my comfort zone.
And yeah, I mean yeah, I might have to thank
prozac for my whole career.
Speaker 3 (31:53):
Yeah, was anyone helpful to you in getting your start
in comedy? I'm sure along the way lots of people
(32:16):
have been, but when you're just starting, was anyone there
too that you really remember being super helpful?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I mean the very first open mic I ever went to,
a good friend came with me and so that felt
very safe or safer. So and she's still been, like,
you know, one of my biggest supporters and has come
to my shows over the years, So she's definitely like
someone I would put up there. And then in terms
(32:43):
of just like in the comedy world, I think the
peers you come up with are you are kind of
all succeeding and failing together, So I think that they
are kind of your learning from them. They're learning from you,
they're your colleagues. But I think with art sometimes it
can feel deeper than that in a way, and some
(33:03):
of them become you know, your close friends, and so
that would also be like a core group I would
I would say influence me. And then also just like
people you respect. Like one thing with comedy is like
as you're starting, you get the opportunity to open for
acts that are coming through town, and I got to
work with some of my heroes, and I think they
(33:24):
I mean, they say never meet your heroes, but I
would say with comedy, people more often than not. They
are very lovely grounded people in my experience, and I
think just you know, like someone you look up to
or have only seen on like TV or listen to
their album, being like, oh hey, you're really funny, like
you know, keep going like that makes all the difference
(33:46):
when you're new and young and still figuring it out.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Who's someone that did that for you that you really respected.
Speaker 1 (33:55):
I mean, Maria Bamford is a comedian that's like, I mean,
really open mental health. I think in a way that
I don't think any other comedian has to the degree
that she does. And she's also maybe one of the
nicest people to walk this earth. So she really is
like one of those people where you're like, I feel
lucky that you exist, and that the fact that I
(34:18):
also know you and I've worked with you and like,
you know, we're friendly like that, it sometimes feels inconceivable.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Yeah, yeah, surreal, right yeah yeah. So a part of
my business is a mess. Cable news politics just a mess.
You know, we're we're contracting, nobody's watching us. We're also
being swallowed up by these like giant conglomerates, and so
like three tech pros run run news, which is really scary.
(34:47):
What's the state of your business? How is comedy doing
right now?
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I mean, I would say we're having our own upheaval
and turmoil. I think it's become more polarized in that.
I think there's you know, there's a side of comedy
now where it's like we're not allowed to say anything anymore,
Like I'm just speaking my truth and it happens to
be throwing your group under the bus.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
You know.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
It's there's that end of things of just like I
want to be mean, and I want a safe space
to be mean, and then and then you know, the
other side of like why do we maybe have other
voices at the table and and have you know, some
new ways of looking at this art form that's still
(35:34):
a relatively young art form and has room to evolve.
So I think there is a bit of an identity
crisis in comedy as well. And I think to your
point about just the state of the media landscape, I
think the same thing even with like this stand up
special I have coming out, like it's coming out on
(35:55):
a newer platform called Dropout that that's basically by the
same people as College Humor, but they you know, decided
to create their own avenue for putting out stuff, and
they have a very loyal fan base. And but just
to the speak to the fact that there are so
many avenues now for putting out work, and some of
that is just comedians putting their specials on YouTube because
(36:18):
it's much harder to sell it to HBO or Netflix
or you know, Amazon. So I think people are a
little also directionless in terms of like what steps do
I take to move forward in my career other than
what everyone thinks they should be doing, which is putting
more reels on Instagram talks build and yeah, build an
(36:41):
internet audience.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
Yeah, very similar.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
I think a lot of overlap in terms of like
how we're all operating inside of these businesses.
Speaker 2 (36:50):
Because the extra real estate.
Speaker 3 (36:53):
And the nonlinear paths to doing the job that's all
great accepts, you know, there's anxiety around it, and you
know you start asking, well, is this as good as this?
Is this as legitimate as this? And yes, I've been
doing it this way forever. Now I have to adapt
and am I too old for this?
Speaker 1 (37:13):
Yes? You know?
Speaker 2 (37:14):
Or is this actually better for me?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
And I need to kind of live leave the old
trappings and the old idea I have in my head
about how this should go, leave that behind and move
move forward. But like there's no no one coming in
with all the answers of how to do it, so
we're all on our own.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I mean I joined substack maybe two years ago now
because I was like, maybe this is the place for me.
And I wouldn't say I've done a great job of
keeping up my substack, but I did see in my
late little substack news feed the other day that was
like Dolly Parton has now joined substack, and I was like, wow,
could could she have predicted that substack would be the next.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Move it is?
Speaker 3 (37:55):
I joined too to future proof like yeah, of creating.
And I'm a writer first, and so it's a place
I can write things that I maybe can't.
Speaker 2 (38:05):
Write my political columns or whatever.
Speaker 3 (38:07):
But every time someone washes out of legacy media, right yeah,
like yeah, welcome.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
To substack, Like, yeah, it's a place you can go.
Speaker 3 (38:18):
I don't know if it feels like a full replacement
of the old thing, but it definitely feels like.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
An addendum or like a yes and add on.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
You know. That's that's fun and great and different, And
I hope independent media grows.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
I think that's good for everybody.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
Yeah, yeah, I mean it's just fascinating though, the way
what you're saying with like the tech bros of like yeah,
it's like, okay, now we're all oriented in this direction
towards this one thing. But then it's like, you know,
when was Vine, I don't know, but it's like that
now it's just like a punchline or like a footnote
in cant. I remember when everyone was like trying to
(38:56):
blow up on Vine or like.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Quib was going to be the thing, you know, like
you were all meant to do this like five minute,
ten minutes. Yes, yeah, product content production. For us, it
was news and politics and that didn't work at all.
But like we're all trying to figure it out. And
you're right, some of these things were investing a lot
in right now, could be on the cutting room floor
(39:21):
of history in like a year.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, And not to say that that doesn't make them
valid in the moment, but I just think things move
so quickly now that it's hard to know what to
invest in because you're like so hard, could not exist
in a year.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
It's so hard THERI odd comedy fest your thoughts.
Speaker 1 (39:44):
I was not asked, so you didn't have to make
the more in the moral judgment that decision I think,
I mean personally, I just don't think I would have
wanted to do that. I don't know, like I I
think I I have a hard time wrapping my head
around unless you really needed the money, like being like, yeah,
(40:06):
this seems like a cool thing, I should sure.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah, I mean I guess if you're like, when else
would I go to Saudi Arabia? I would, you know
what I mean, Like, I don't. I just have a
hard time putting myself in the mindset of like, yeah,
this seems fine, nobody's gonna nobody's gonna have any thoughts
about me doing this.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Yeah, Yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
That.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
I was mixed on that.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
You know, Yeah, I have certain lines that I won't cross.
There's money I won't take, for sure, Yes, that's probably one.
Speaker 2 (40:43):
I'm not taking Saudi money.
Speaker 3 (40:45):
Yeah, But but I also wondered, like, you know, for
someone to say, well, listen, we're we're going there to
show what we what what our sort of.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
What our cultural value you are?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Yeah, and you know, I guess you could make that argument,
but like, do that from here?
Speaker 2 (41:05):
Do that from here.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, yeah, okay, comedians hosting award shows. We just had
Nate BERGETSI do the Emmys. I've loved when Ricky Gervais
hosted the Golden Globes. Nikki Glazer just hosted the Golden Globes.
And of course you know we've had like Billy Crystal
and yeah, for years he was so great, Chris Rock,
Kevin Hart. What makes a good award show host? What
(41:29):
makes a bad one?
Speaker 1 (41:33):
I I just think even if you're going to kind
of tank or because you know, I think there have
been some that have not gone over as well as others. Yes,
I think if you are if you as a comedian,
know what you're there to do, or like you have
a you know, if it's like I'm gonna maybe take
(41:56):
some shots at people in this room and and they
may or may not be on board with those shots,
like you gotta like then double down on that. You
can't then scale it back and be like, oh no,
you know, my I have bad writers or whatever it is.
You know, you have to like own it, you have
to own it. And but I mean my favorite is
(42:17):
just the silly, like where this is silly. We're all
here having a silly time in our like big floppy
hats or whatever it is, you know, like not not
too self serious, but also not trying to like be
really mean mean people because I'm like, you're already in
an industry where you get a lot of meanness. You
don't need it here.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
You decide to make mental health a big part of
your your creative work and stand up your material. And
I feel like outs, like outside of academia, I feel
like comedy is the only place really you can talk
about your own mental health like all the time publicly,
and it works. I think a lot about Noah con
(43:01):
who's an artist. He's a musician who almost all of
his songs are about his mental health.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
He might be an exception, but.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Like if you're just like if you're like the head
of sales at like a paper company, it'd be really
weird if you were, like, I'm going to lead with
my anxiety and like everything I do and say right.
But comedy, like you can decide I'm going to talk
about my mental health all the time. And it's why
comedians I think have done so much good for mental
(43:28):
health because it you know, maybe Selena Gomez can talk
about it like once or twice, and that's great, that's
impactful too.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
Yeah, I feel like a comic.
Speaker 3 (43:38):
Or a comedian can do it all the time with
the humor being self effacing, being super raw and honest,
and I just I think that's that's really unique to comedy.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, I mean, I think as a comedian who is
really mining from my own life, my personal life, it
is a to kind of really get into the nooks
and crannies of what it is to be a human
in this world and kind of those moments in the
day where they aren't you know, these big news making moments,
(44:12):
Like I think comedy is really good at being like,
isn't it weird how we all have this thought in
the morning, you know, Just like I feel like it's
an art form that really revels in the smallness of
life that can end up feeling so big. So I
think you're right. I think that does make it an
art form that's weirdly suited to kind of how the
(44:35):
minutia in our life ends up sometimes being the biggest
like messaging to our version of what our own reality is.
Speaker 3 (44:46):
Yeah, and how we feel connectivity to other people and
talking about those small moments much more than the news.
Speaker 1 (44:55):
Yeah. I mean the funny thing with comedy too, is like,
you know, it's a lot of fall on your feet
where it's like when you're first trying stuff out in
front of an audience. You're always trying stuff out to
see if it works, and it's like sometimes you say
a thing of like we all do this right, an
audience is like no, we don't.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
Oh, and then you're like, oh, it catches me.
Speaker 1 (45:13):
Okay, great, great, noted, We'll not say that one out
loud again.
Speaker 2 (45:19):
That's really funny. Yeah, I can just imagine that.
Speaker 3 (45:24):
Okay, Yeah, you've done several projects around mental health. I
mentioned Blue Woman Group, which was great, and and Laughing
Matters too. How did how did those two things come about?
Speaker 1 (45:39):
I think well, Jacqueline was, uh, you know, someone I
had admired and looked up to for a long time,
and we started chatting and I think we're both bonded
about just depression, and she wrote like such a great
book about her own experience with depression, and so I
think we wanted to work together and had this link
(46:01):
that already like bonded us. So I think that made
us be like, okay, what can we how can we now? Monetize, Yes,
so how can we prop it off of this tram?
So I think that one was just, yeah, a little
project we kind of test drove together, and then I
think laughing matters. I think they reached out to me
and they were like, you know, we've we're familiar with
(46:23):
your work and think you would be a good addition
to this project.
Speaker 3 (46:28):
Such a great idea. Uh do you outside of stand up?
What in popular culture do you think has handled mental
health really well? Like, like do you watch Shrinking or
like Fouria or Crazy Ex Girlfriend, Couple's Therapy? Like what
what do you think really handles this topic?
Speaker 1 (46:49):
Well? Yeah, I really enjoy Couple's Therapy. I actually started
watching on a plane.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
But so addictive.
Speaker 1 (46:57):
It's so addictive. But I'm always curious how they I mean,
I guess you get used to the cameras in the room,
but I'm like, I don't know. If I was in therapy,
I would be so but.
Speaker 3 (47:08):
Let's talk about this because I love talking about couples therapy. Yeah,
and doctor Orna. We're trying to get doctor Orna on
the show because I just think she's trying to get
her on Magical What is it about Okay, I'll tell
you what it is about Couble's therapy for me, which
is really dark. It's an ugly side of me. But
this is what I love about it.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
It's the justice.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
It is the justice of having a third party in
the room, Dr Worry, Yes, be able to say very clearly,
which she wouldn't phrase it this way, but you know,
pointing out the way you're talking is terrible, or this
is your your problem, you are doing this, you are
making this situation worse. And she doesn't say it like that, right,
(47:51):
but the justice of like we've all been in an
argument with a significant other or someone and wished someone
was there to be like a no, no, no, no, you're
definitely crazy and she's right, or vice versa.
Speaker 2 (48:03):
And it's just having that like that honest voice in.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
I know and also to see I mean not to generalize,
but to see that exact situation playing out and then
you see the let's be honest, usually the man, if
it's a head relationship, just double down and like refuse,
even with another person saying reaffirming and still being like no,
(48:32):
You're like, well, this is interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (48:37):
I love it, Like, yeah, are you thinking of Mal
because I always think of Maul. Yeah yeah, right, okay,
yeah yeah yeah, and Mao did this to himself. Okay,
Mal asked for this, but like, yeah, and sometimes some
of these relationships are great and you like both people
and you really want them to work it out, and
sometimes you're just like I hope this ends and worse.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Yeah yeah, I know, I know, You're just like I don't.
I don't get it. I mean, I get we've all
been a relationship where it's like, maybe this isn't the
best for me, but yeah, I know when you're seeing
them like in therapy, really hashing it out, you're like,
get out.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Yeah, you don't have to keep doing this to each other.
Speaker 3 (49:14):
Yeah, okay, sorry I interrupted you you like couples therapy,
anything else that you like that handles mental health.
Speaker 1 (49:21):
I mean, I'm gonna be honest. I feel like I
both don't watch as much comedy as I think people
think comedians watch, and I don't watch a bunch of
like a lot of mental health stuff because I think
I'm I think it's the sort of thing you like,
you want to escape what you're living in. So agree,
so I'm watching I don't know what am I watching
(49:41):
I guess I started Pluribus, which maybe there's a mental
health aspect to that, but otherwise maybe selling Sunset, which
is probably a travesty to mental health.
Speaker 3 (49:54):
No, no, no, I love reality television. I watch a lot
of Bravo because it is an escape. And like I
tried to watch Shrinking and it was actually very uncomfortable.
I didn't like the way they dealt with with mental
health and I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (50:09):
Get outside of myself.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, I mean, I think there's to that point, Like
you know, people always say comfort TV. I think there's
been a whole movement in recent years of discomfort TV,
where almost the point is to make you a little uncomfortable,
and I think everyone has a different line of like yeah,
this is what that is uncomfortable for me? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Oh that's a good point.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
Because Nate, I don't know, if you've watched any of
Nathan Fielder's work, I think he really doulves into maybe
making you feel like, oh, I don't know if I
could watch this.
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
I don't want to be I don't want to be uncomfortable.
I'm uncomfortable ninety nine percent of my day in my
own skin. When I'm escaping into some kind of something creative,
I want to be super comfy, comfy and yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:01):
I have a question for you. Are you a horror
movie person at all?
Speaker 3 (51:06):
You know, I'm not not. I don't get scared by
scary movies. I find them silly. Yes, mostly so I
get I'm very into like a good thriller, but it
has to be like a psychological.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Thriller, a random horror movie.
Speaker 3 (51:20):
Like it's just silly to me, and it doesn't make
me anxious. It just I'm like, what this is done?
Speaker 1 (51:26):
Yeah, I think I'm also very much thriller. Psychological thriller
is my cat nip. But I was just listening to
a podcast about like how a lot of anxious people
actually find horror movies kind of cathartic because it's like
a scary situation, but it's like you you know how
it plays out, or you're like and you know it's
not gonna happen to you because you don't believe in ghosts,
(51:47):
so they actually like are attracted to them.
Speaker 3 (51:50):
That's so interesting. Yes, that's not the thing for me.
The things I have.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
To avoid are like.
Speaker 3 (51:58):
Real world scenarios that involve harmon kids. Well, yeah, you know,
or like a real world scenario I could be in
that would that would be right, really really trauma traumatizing
if I couldn't be in it.
Speaker 2 (52:15):
And I'm not worried about this thing happening. I can
usually watch it.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
But like that's why reality is just because it just
lives up here. It's so superficial, and you know, I
know I'm not going to be an idiot like some
of these people are. You know, I'm not going to
make these mistakes, so it doesn't like get to my
nervous system.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah, though I find it so strange now how it
kind of bleeds into you know, It's like you'll watch
this show, but then people will be like, oh yeah,
but on her social media she's actually not talking to
her anymore. And I'm like, wait, so which reality is
the reality? You know, like it's all so blurry now.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
Yeah, I actually don't like that because like.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
I don't either keep it.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
I don't the show outside of the show.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
Outside of the show, Yes, deal with the things that
are happening on camera that I can see, and not
the blogger you met with off camera and the social
media fight you're in with someone else that I can't write.
Speaker 1 (53:12):
It in yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3 (53:26):
Talk about your new special, Hopeful Potato on Dropout.
Speaker 1 (53:30):
Yeah, so it's my first hour lenth special. I wrote
a book about imposter syndrome about came out now two
years ago, and when I was working on that, I
took a break from stand up. It just was really
hard to I mean, you're writing, I think, a book
on your own mental health right now, and I don't
(53:53):
want to assume how it's going, but for me, it
was very destabilizing and hard, and it is. I know
you've written other books, but this was my first, and
I think it was just, yeah, difficult in a way
I could not have foreseen. And I took a break
from performing while I was doing that, and then this
special was sort of the culmination of like coming back
(54:15):
to stand up and kind of naming the new place
I was in with like aging and relationship and just
worldview and mental health. And yeah, I would say it's
kind of a little snapshot because I think the material
kind of came together over maybe to two and a
half years, So it's a little snapshot of where I was,
(54:40):
where I've been, where I am now. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (54:44):
Great, Well, I hope everyone goes and checks it out
before I let you go, I want to do a
lightning round. What's the best thing to do in DC
or the DMVO.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
I would say d C as a very and I
guess I'm biased because I started to stand up there,
but a very under the radar maybe performing arts scene.
I just feel like there's a lot going on with
theater and comedy and dance that I mean, it's it's
you know, available, but I think maybe not everyone is
(55:21):
in touch with it. And so I would say thinks
about it, Yeah, thinks about d C as DC as
that kind of Yeah, So I would say, check out
something in the performing arts realm. And then I also
think there's like beautiful nature in DC that I mean
people also don't maybe associate with just like trails and
(55:42):
beautiful hikes and bikes and yeah, relief.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
It is especially northern Virginia and yes, yes, you know
Arlington and Alexandria like so much, such such great towns
for walking. I you know, I walked everywhere, and when
my son was born, I take them in the stroller
and just walk miles and miles like a lot of Potomac.
Or that's true, it's underrated for that yes, anxiety or depression.
Speaker 2 (56:09):
You can only save one.
Speaker 1 (56:12):
Save one as in, keep it or toss it out.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
Are you keeping your anxiety or are you keeping depression?
Speaker 1 (56:22):
Oh? Man, I don't even know what the analogy is.
I'm like, are they like my children? I don't know.
I would say, I mean, maybe it's the time of year,
but I'm gonna say I'm going to keep the depression
get rid of the anxiety, Okay. I like And I
think that might just be that my general mo O
(56:46):
is that I kind of move slower in the world
compared to other people, and I feel like depression is
okay with you moving slower, and anxiety is kind of
like hurry up, hurry up, hurry up. And I'm always
it's like a horrible feeling. It's like the feeling you're
late and I'm always late anyway.
Speaker 3 (57:04):
And and anxiety judges you and like demands like why
aren't you working as hard?
Speaker 2 (57:08):
And depressions like let's stay in bed.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
It's fine, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, h yeah yeah.
Speaker 2 (57:14):
What's the worst vacation you ever took?
Speaker 1 (57:18):
Oh, worst vacation I ever took? How would you answer that?
Because I'm like immediately blanking, well, one.
Speaker 2 (57:27):
That comes to mind for me. Uh, I was going
to Alaska.
Speaker 3 (57:32):
This was my second time in Alaska, and I was
bringing friends and we were going hunting and fishing, and okay,
it requires a lot of you, right, You're out in
the wilderness and fishing. And I got sick, like really
really sick for like the whole trip, and I felt
really responsible for everyone because like I had brought them
and I couldn't do all the things that we were
(57:54):
going to do together. And I literally spent like three
days in bed. That was great. One vacation I went
for my twenty fifth birthday.
Speaker 2 (58:05):
We went to Rome.
Speaker 3 (58:06):
My bags went to Osaka, though, and so for the
entire trip, I'm like running around Rome.
Speaker 2 (58:12):
I have no money.
Speaker 3 (58:13):
I'm totally poor, trying to buy like clothes off the street,
like from like street clothes just to be there.
Speaker 1 (58:22):
I mean, I'll piggyback off of that. This isn't really
fair answered your question. But I once did and this
isn't sort of half work half vacation. But I did
a comedy like a comedy themed cruise or like a
themed cruise that was like for comedy, and they lost
my bag as soon as I got there. They couldn't
(58:44):
find it, and yeah, so I had to wear like
my clothes, which is not really my vibe. That's a
category you would yeah, yeah, I was like, that's funny.
Speaker 3 (58:57):
I also did a themed cruise, a conservative themed cruise.
Speaker 1 (59:01):
I hated it.
Speaker 2 (59:02):
I hated that.
Speaker 1 (59:03):
God. I mean, my thing with cruises that I find
difficult is you cannot leave.
Speaker 2 (59:08):
Yeah, you're trapped.
Speaker 1 (59:09):
You cannot leave.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
You're trapped.
Speaker 3 (59:11):
And in your case and in my case, I was
trapped with like fans who were there to you know,
be with me. Yeah, but on the job and like vacationing,
which is so Yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:23):
And in fairness for mine there they were really lovely
fans and they wouldn't bother you. But something about you know,
being in line to get you know, oatmeal with like
five people who just saw you perform, it's to the
anxiety was rampant with you.
Speaker 3 (59:43):
It was not for my anxiety. What's your favorite sitcom?
Speaker 1 (59:48):
Oh, favorite sitcom? I would go with. This is a
kind of a maybe lesser known show. I hope more
people know it. But it's a British sitcom that some
friend turned me onto. Name called staff Let's Flats. It's
(01:00:10):
a bit of a tongue twister. Say it again, staf
lets flats. I think it's a choice that they wanted
the name.
Speaker 3 (01:00:18):
Don't any word that you just said. What's the first
word you said.
Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
Staf st Ah, yes, correct, and that's the name of
the main character. And then let's because it's British.
Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
So rents yes, okay, flats apartments ah.
Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Okay, stat the person is renting out apartments? Is the
name of the show?
Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
Yes, yes, exactly okay, And I mean, based on how
confusing that title is, that is basically the the tone
of the show. It's like a very goofy, absurd kind
of family workplace show about this very in common potent
realtor who's like Cypriot Greek and he works at this
(01:01:07):
realtor firm that his dad wants him to take over.
He's like so bad at it, and it's just such
a dumb, funny show that's like kind of unlike anything
else you've seen in common.
Speaker 3 (01:01:19):
I'm going to check that out. I love British TV.
I love it British comedies.
Speaker 1 (01:01:24):
Yeah me too.
Speaker 2 (01:01:25):
Okay, I'm going to check that out. Go out or
stay in?
Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
H stay in? Yeah? I love to stay and I'm
pushing myself to go out more because I think I've
really let it swing too far the other way. And
I have to say, the big joy about going out
is the feeling of getting home. And if you're always in,
you don't get that high of getting home.
Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
It's true.
Speaker 3 (01:01:53):
Yeah, I get The biggest rush I ever get is
in canceling plans. Yeah, that is such a high, but
that hot You start to tolerate that the more you
do it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
And yes, so you need you need to go out
in between all of.
Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
The canceling of plants exactly exactly, or you're not canceling
of plants, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
Or you're not getting the same rush dopamine hit from it.
Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
The last question we ask at the end of every podcast.
It's super important to me. It is my culture, it
is my spirituality. When is it iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
I have to be fully honest. I listen to some
other episodes so I know what the right answer is.
But I also am aligned with that answer, which is
that any time of year is good for ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
Well, I appreciate your honesty that you're not pretending, but
I had agreed with you.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
You believe that. Sincerely, I do.
Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
I mean not just because I live in LA I
just think ice coffee is its own drink and it's
not seasonally specific. It's like whenever you want to Oh.
Speaker 3 (01:03:05):
You're correct, and you know that, you know that, But
I'm just I'm just so glad. I always love meeting
another iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
Has anyone disagreed with that?
Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Oh yeah, oh oh yeah yeah, and it's we'll get
lots of lots of answers like we why don't drink coffee?
Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Or I prefer tea?
Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
Or well, ice coffee season is June through August when
the temperature is but x y z or whatever, and
those are all fine, but the wrong, the wrong, the wrong.
Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Well, Okay, because I opened with honesty, I will continue
my honesty in that I have had to switch to
tea because of anxiety, like my body can't seem to
handle caffeine in the same.
Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Way I've had to switch to decaf.
Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
Oh it's tragic, it's tragic.
Speaker 2 (01:03:57):
A part of why do we internalize this switch so much?
Speaker 3 (01:04:00):
Because I, as my producers know, because we have another
podcast called Talking Coffee, where I talked about I made
confession that I had to switch to TEACLF and it
would really bothered me.
Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Why are we so bothered by having to go decaf?
Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
I think I just I don't know that. I feel
like there's so few, you know, comforts in this life
and the ritual of coffee and something about just easing
you into the day or welcoming you into the day
when your brain maybe is not the most welcoming place.
Is just yeah, you want you need those things. You
(01:04:42):
need those things to keep going.
Speaker 3 (01:04:45):
So how has it been switching to tea?
Speaker 1 (01:04:48):
It's been fine. I've like, you know what, I throw
so much milk in there. It's like nobody knows what
the drink is by the end. But yeah, I've I've adjusted.
But it is like if I go to coffee shop,
I'll just get a hit off the smell at this
pace because it's the best smell. It's the best smell.
Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
Aparna, thanks so much. This was such a great conversation.
I loved it. I loved every minde.
Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
I really enjoyed it. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:05:16):
Yeah, and thanks for talking about mental health. You do
a real service.
Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:05:20):
Likewise, coming up next week on Off the Cup, I
talked to Broadway and West End star Marisa Wallace.
Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Everyone's on the feet crime screaming, like going crazy, and
I was like, well, guess when I knew.
Speaker 2 (01:05:37):
That I had caught fire? I was like, Okay, this
is where I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 3 (01:05:43):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 3 (01:05:49):
Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill, and Native
Land pod. For Off the Cup, I'm your host, Si Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producer
are me Se cop Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate
and review wherever you get your podcasts. Follow or subscribe
for new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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