April 30, 2025 • 40 mins
This week, S.E. sits down with one of the best communicators, maybe, on the planet — it's Donny Deutsch! The TV host and master marketer talks about growing up in Queens and how being a New Yorker is such an embedded part of his identity. They talk about the evolution of branding and what makes a great brand — and what definitely doesn't. Donny also shares his meandering path to ambition — his first TV appearance on a game show with Betty White — and what it took for him to lock in and get to work. S.E. and Donny also dig into the wild world of the 1980s advertising (very different vibe than Mad Men). There's a lot to learn from this episode and, make no mistake, Donny will tell it to you straight!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I've always believed that I'd like to think of myself
as strong and straightforward and direct. But I don't think
you ever win by goading people or carry people down.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, everybody, welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti
anxiety antidote. Today we're talking to someone who is so
good at talking about anything. Seriously, He's one of the
best communicators, I think on the planet. He's a master marketer,
a TV host, host of On Brand with Donnie Deutsch.
I guess that gives it away, and just someone I
love talking to.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Donnie Deutsch, Welcome, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I see, I appreciate it. I'm such a big fan.
I love the work you do, and so it's an
honor to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Right back at jam, let's start at the top with
you have done something amazing. You have made branding your brand,
and I can't really think of anyone else who's done that.
I feel like you're in a category of your own.
Do you feel like you created a category interesting? You know?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I think, yeah, it's interesting. Brand is such a prevalent term.
I mean we're all brands. Yeah, I mean, if you
have a Facebook page, you're a brand. A brand is
a set of values, what you stand for, what you believe.
So we're all yes every day. You know, we always
think traditionally if a brand is you know, Kellogg Cereal,
But everything is a brand. Every person, every athlete, every movement,
every political party, every politician, We're all brands. And so
(01:19):
I have created this unique space as the guy who
kind of you know, talks about it and has a
lot of experience. Obviously, I spent twenty five years building
an agency. So I love that I'm able to bring
that and talk about that through lensing it through politics
and pop culture and other things like that, because that's
what I bring to the table, and I think other
people don't.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You're right, Like when I was coming up, even me,
you know, twenty years in was aware of like creating
a brand when I was coming up as a writer
and then started doing TV, and I was aware of it.
I didn't know how to do it, but I was
aware that I should probably be a thing with a
well fought out plan. But it just feels like maybe
(02:01):
you know this intuitively branding because.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You speak off the kuff about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, I kind of do. It's in my blood. I
don't you know. I don't know why, I don't know how.
You know, the key to understand, the key to what
make great brands is authenticity, honesty, consistency, staying true to
core values. You know, the great brands over time don't deviate.
And so you know, a challenge for politician if you
want to have a strong brand is you can't be
flip flopping too often. You know. The one thing about
(02:28):
Trump and we know you and I both feel the
same way about him, and that's not very well. He
is very authentic to his brand, who he is, what
he's about, and that's one of the things that resonates.
And I think, by the way, I find most of
what his brand stands for is reprehensible. But I do
give him major points for being a master brander, starting
with starting with himself.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You know, I have I'm asked about this a lot
because sometimes it's in my shot. I have a giant
picture in my office. It's like five by five of
it's Al Gore playing flag football with his kids on
his front lawn.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And the story of this picture is twofold.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I'm working at the New York Times many years ago,
and we're in the old building, and these Pulitzer Prize
winning pictures are all over the place. Right, there's one
of like Champion Yankees and da da dah. This one
happens to be over my workspace for the entirety of
my time there. And when we moved to the new building,
they said, you can have one of these, like you
(03:27):
can take one of these homes.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So I took this one home.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The story of this photo is this is about two
days after the two thousand election, and you know this,
we didn't have a president yet. We had to do
a recall. But his people told him go outside on
your front lawn, play football with your kids. It'll look
like you're confident. And of course all it did was
look like a photo op. It looked packaged, and that's
(03:52):
all the press talked about, which was this like photo
op and how inauthentic it looked. And it was sort
of a punctuation on a camp pain that was not
very authentical.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Was that a lot of people felt, Yeah, a lot
of people.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, that's right. It was his thing.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That was the criticism of al Gore that he just
didn't feel authentic. He was likable enough, he was smart,
he had just been a vice president. He was good looking,
like there were reasons he should have worked.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's interesting a lot of politicians post their main political
time find it. He found it afterwards through the Internet
and through environmentalism, And yeah, that was always Hillary's problem,
and she posts running for president. Now she has this
kind of I don't give a shit and I'll tell
it like it is and becomes incredibly more likable, more powerful,
(04:38):
and more credible. So I think that's just such a
key thing. And the ones, the politicians that like Bill
Clinton had it, Barack Obama had it, rob O Reagan
had it. The great ones have that.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, it's a really interesting way to look at it.
And I always think about it when when I look
at that photo.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Just be authentic.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Even in my business, I find even when people are
disagreeing with me, they know I I'm speaking authentically as myself.
And I think that's important connecting with people. Let's go back,
Let's go back. What kind of kid were you? I
always like asking what kind of kid someone was.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I was a good kid. I had a really lucky,
happy upbringing. I have two great parents, you know, who
were married, stayed together. I grew up in Queen's kind
of middle to upper middle class. I mean I went
to a big high school, four thousand kids. You know,
it's kind of a tough Queen's high school. So it
kind of made me a little bit of who I was.
But yet had everything at home, every privilege I could want.
(05:33):
So I had the best of all worlds I was.
I was a very popular kid. I was president of
my senior class. I had a really fortunate, happy, productive childhood.
I give it, and I have to, you know, give
the credit to my parents because they set the table
and so. But I was a funny kid. I was
getting in trouble, but not horrible trouble, just mischievous kind
(05:53):
of thing. What you would think, what you would think
I was like as a kid. I was a kid, Okay,
were you?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Were you ambitious?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I didn't love studying in school. My parents, particularly when
my mother would push me, and I give her credit
for that. I found ambition after I went to college.
I went to Penn, I went to Wharton. I was
kind of the village idiot them. Yeah, I was the
village idiot. I don't know how I got into this day,
but somehow I snuck in the back door and I
found ambition kind of coming out of college. A lot
(06:21):
of my friends got fast starts. They went to Wall Street,
they were doing great. I was working for an ad agency,
Ladge agency, and then I was working for my father
who had an agency at the time, and I was
kind of fucking up and my father fired me. And
after that I came back and I found ambition. Now,
I kind of. I was at twenty four to twenty five.
I was like, shit, this is passing me by. And
I kind of went from there.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
You grew up in Queens.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
As you said, how important is New York to your identity?
Like would you be Donnie if you grew up in Phoenix?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
No? Right now I am in New Yorker full through
all the good and all the gather comes with that,
and I own it proudly. I owed my Queen's heritage proudly.
You know. I remember getting in college the first day
and meeting all these kids that, you know, kind of
had their own BMW's and I didn't. I was like,
what that's your How how is that your car? I
don't even know understand that. But they were soft because
(07:10):
they grew up in very homogeneous you know, either all
preppy communities or all. You know, I don't use the
word bossington. All Jewish communities are all very white, brick communities.
And I grew up in a very integrated, on the
street school, and I just remember I couldn't wait to
play cars with them and take their money, you know.
And and because they didn't have but the one thing
they didn't have, they didn't have both the street smarts,
(07:31):
and they didn't have the same hunger I had. And yeah,
the challenge we all have, of course, our kids are
all growing up comfortably, is you don't want to rob
your kids are the luxury of being hungry? Wow?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, I mean the places you're describing is for sure.
The town my kid is growing up in. Where is
it Connecticut?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay? Okay, my kids growing up on the Upper East
Side of New York. So yeah, not not going to
be exposed to the same thing, you.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Know, they're not. Yeah, he's just not.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And I think about it a lot because I grew
up middle class, nothing handed to me. My parents both
worked really hard, and I think he just won't know
a lot of the things that I knew, and I
don't know that I can recreate it for him.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Can't do it. Doesn't that you could teach them great values.
It's just different. They're not exposed to the breadth of things.
They're not growing up hungry. I know kids from incredibly
affluent or very prominent families who are incredible hard workers
and achievers. And then I know the quintessential trust for
in idiots. You know. So it's not in absolutely the way,
(08:30):
but it makes it more challenging clearly.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
And I always found growing up, I moved a lot,
and I went to a lot of different schools, private, public, Catholic,
all girls, you know, all kinds of schools. And I
found ambition was contagious. When I was in a school
where everyone wanted to be great, worked hard, had big goals,
were competitive, I took that on as well. And when
I was in schools where like being cool was more
(08:54):
cool than being smart, it was harder to be ambitious.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
And so maybe it's just like an environmental too.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
They've done a lot of studies on this, and that's
the they say. The most important thing about getting into
a good college is not the rigorous studying, is that
you'll be with a group of kids that will will
become selfulfilling prophecy of how much you strive that they've
done all kinds of psychological studies, not about college, but
about exactly what you're saying. Your peer set defines so much. Galloway,
(09:21):
who I like a lot of talks a lot of
Professor Scott Gallery talks.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
A lot of you know, Oh okay, all right, I'm
onto something. Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So in the eighties you join your father's firm. Was
that a choice of yours or his?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
My I went first worked at a large agency ogil
Va May the left after a year, went it with
my dad as a small agency, and look, we were
able to kind of scale it and turn it into
a big agency. But I kind of stand on his
shoulders every day. He did the hard part to build
something from nothing. I don't care how much you scale.
You can build a one hundred x times. That's the
I have tremendous respect and I owe so much of
(09:56):
my success to him, because that's why I always I
always get angry at people in family businesses can't understand
that that doesn't mean you haven't also achieved, but you're
still standing on the founder shoulders and don't.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Right, don't ever forget that you didn't do the hardest part.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I didn't do that. I don't think I did the hardest. Yeah,
I think I give myself a a. I mean, I
built it to a really big, big, big, big agency.
But I still think he did the hardest part still,
you know, grinding out from nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
The eighties New York advertising man. Yeah, my uncle wasn't it.
My uncle was at BBDA. No, sure, garriy Apollo.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Will you do that? I know that name somehow, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I bet you did. He was a big he was
a big wig.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
He did visas everywhere you want to be.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
He was. He was a creative director, right, yes, I think, yeah, okay,
I remember the name.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, he had big account. You had PEPSI, he had big,
big account.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So that's BBDO. Yes, yeah, three dose.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You might have met him, which is so funny. He's
about twenty years older than you. But thank you for
saying it just seems like the eighties Manhattan, Yeah, Midtown
advertising was just like, oh it was.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You know, it was a different version of mad Men.
You know, we all know mad Men, sixties Martinis and
you know, the whole kind of thing. It, you know
what didn't have that romanticism and had a kind of
a grittier cocaine flat Wall Street very much. It was
a creative, sexier Wall Street, but it had all but
it was rough, rowdy, and it was crazy and it
(11:23):
was fun. We lived, you know, it was very interesting.
The work environments were very very different. Everybody was dating
each other. It was a very different It was a
very different world and it was it was exactly you know,
it was interesting. Jay Leno opened up when he left
his show. One of the things he did at the end,
he showed in the curtain and he showed all the
families that met at his workplace, and he was most
proud of that. You would never do that today. You know.
(11:44):
It was very, very different, and you know, obviously we've
come to a better place. But so much of work
was the social aspect of it, particularly in a creative
if you were in the TV business, if you were
in the advertising business, if you were you know, in
the journalism business. I mean, you know what newsrooms were
like years ago, and obviously they were like what they
were like, you know, and it's hopefully that is what
they were like, you know what I mean. It has
(12:06):
changed a lot, and it's changed for the better.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I don't know if most people know this about you,
but your first TV appearance was on the game show
Match Game.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Wow, you did your homework here. Okay, we're gonna find
out about Donnie Deutsch. First, tell us where you're from.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
My name is Donny Deutsch. I'm out here visiting from Queens,
New York.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I just recently graduated the University of Pennsylvania, and since
that time, I've been working for a large advertising agency
in New York. Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh
my god, Big Afro, Huge jew.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Care is stunning. Here is stunning, Johnny.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Judefro like this with a beard. Yes, that was my
initial TV appearance nineteen seventy nine, the Match Game with
Gene Rayburn. I matched the Super Match five thousand dollars
with Betty White. Let's see if you would I don't
know if you saw the clip, but see if you
would get the answer the way you would do it.
They would give you a word and you don't have
to fill in the other words.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So, okay, situation blank? Do they give you letters? A
number of letters?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
No? No, no, no, you just you have to that'ch
what the person's gonna say? You know, they write it
down and then you guess what they said.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Situation ship. That's such a modern situation, situation comedy, situation comedy.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I wouldn't have even thought of that because we just
say sitcom sick.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, that to me was the only thing that came
to my head. Yeah, it was the only thing that
came to my heead. But we got so. I won
five thousand dollars in nineteen seventy nine. That was not
that it's not a lot of money to take, but
it was a real lot of money back then, and
it allowed me to stay in California for a period
of time just hang out and it was. It was bizarre,
and it still lives on the internet today. So if
you if you type in dining doos match game, you'll
(13:34):
see a guy with really big afro and a beard
who looks really weird.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I'll attest it's stunning.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Did you ever envision a career on camera?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
No? What happened? Was I used to when I was
running my agi see, I tended to. I was kind
of you know, every industry has a couple of faces
that you know, there's always the divorce lawyer that ends
up on TV or this. I was kind of the
ad guy that you know, if you were the Today
Show or you were CNBC, you want to you know,
I kind of a guy before me was Jerry del
Fanminaho was that guy. I tended to be that guy.
And every time I would do an interview, two things
(14:17):
would happen. I would love it, I'll get a rush,
and the producer or the interview would say, you're really
good at this. You should do this one day, you know.
So I sold my agency and I was looking for
something to do, and I met with an agent and
hooked me up with the NBC and we kind of
went from there. But it was like something just that
I always loved doing. I love performing. I was never
in theater or anything like that, but I think back now,
(14:38):
my favorite class in school was speech, you know, so,
and part of what I did in advertising was perform
and present, you know. I mean, it's a fair you know.
We used to see the Don Draper standing up in
front of the clients and its theater. You're doing theater.
Obviously there's a lot underneath it, and there's a lot
that goes into it. And that's just the kind of
the cherry on the top. But I was always good
at the theater and the presentation that the pitch, so
to speak, And that's what you're doing on TV. You know,
(15:00):
if I'm with a client and I'm pitching, I'm with
you know, I ke it and I'm you know, pitching
them the best way to do their furniture advertising. I
have to sell my vision. I have to sell it
to them. I have to understand my audience put it
to them in a way that they can accept it.
That that get my point across. Well, what are you
doing on the air? What are you doing? You're making
a point and the best way how do I present it?
(15:21):
How do I do it in the most cohesive, you know, succinct,
compelling human way. How do I do it that my
audience is gonna be able to take it in the
way I want them to take it in. So the
kind of the I don't call them the art forms,
but the muscles are kind of the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I think that's really interesting because you say, you know,
you loved being on TV. You got a rush from it,
and I always I'm fascinated by that because I get
nothing from TV physiologically.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I don't get nervous. It doesn't. It doesn't make me excited.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I don't get nervous, but I get pupped. I walk
into morning jokes every day.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Take still, I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I get a rush from it. It's not that I'm
being on now, not that I'm thinking to myself, Oh,
you're on TV and people watch. It's just, yeah, I'm
in a conversation that matters, you know. That's that somehow
is going to connect, you know. I what I love.
You know, I used to have a show on CBC.
I'm sure the big idea. I love when somebody stops
me on the street and say, you know, I used
to watch a show and I started my business because
(16:15):
of it. Or somebody stops me on the street and says,
you know, you really convinced me about this. You said
about women voting, and I think that's really important. Whatever
it is that at the end of the day, what
are we here for? What do we want to leave
our children? We want to make a difference. I don't
even mean change the warb So if you can inform
I don't mean literally inform, but you know, affect somebody
one movie and somehow add something to their life, to
(16:37):
something you said or thought, What a wonderful gift. And
that's what I get excited about, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It is that part is gratifying.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It comes with so many awful other things, but yeah,
that part is for sure gratifying. You said recently when
you had me on your pod, which.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Was great, which the great numbers, by the way, who knew? Right?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, you said to me, you said, you wear your
insides on your outside, and no one's ever said that
in that way. I love the way you said that,
And I wouldn't know how to do it differently because
I don't think about how I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's what that's That's what authenticity is. That's what I mean.
That's kind of an it's kind of like a grimier
way to say authenticity. You know, it's just what you
see is what you get. People can smell it, they
know it. That's what it was. Interesting. Before I had
my show on CBC, I got friendly with Michael J. Fox.
I'm on his board what a privilege to be a
dear friend is? And I asked them for advice. What
(17:36):
do I do? He goes, be yourself. They'll know the
difference if you're not, you know, what I mean. So
like that, they're either gonna buy it, they're not gonna
buy it, but they'll know if you're not. So just
you know, be who you are. And that's why when
everybody says to me, you know, I'm gonna take media
trading or this and that, I'm saying, just be who
you are, don't don't worry about cadences, don't worry about this.
Just just let it. And I think that works for
(17:57):
an actor. I think that works for that, work works
search for a politician. We talked about that. So the
one kudo I'm going to give Trump is he's authentic,
authentically repulsive, but.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
He means it.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So it's yeah, you know, you can't argue with that.
I mean, you know, take the line out, but you know,
he is what he is and really is. And a
lot of people that scores with a lot of people. Yeah,
a lot of people will say when you watch people
being interviewed WI runner A Trump, well, I know, first
of all, they say, he talks like me. You know,
he sounds like me because he's not talking perfectly. He's
(18:33):
talking about you know, and you know, and I believe him.
He believes what, you know, I don't agree with him,
but I believe him, you know, And yeah, that scores
a lot of points.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I had this conversation with a producer, my producer the
other day. I had written in a script, maybe like
a for syllable word, and he was like, you got
to take that out. It's too big. No one knows
what you're talking about. I'm like, I this is me, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Like this is me.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm a writer, Like this is how I talk. And
he's like, I don't care. You can't be you if
you're gonna be like that for this show. Yes, yes,
So offline we talked about this. I loved the show, Donnie.
It was so fun to watch the.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Short lived comedy on USA now.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But tell me how it happened, because I just like
developing other things too.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
How did this happen?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
So it basically what it was that people don't know
I did. This is in twenty fifteen, I think, so
you know, about eight years ago, nine years ago, whatever
it is. It was a kind of a soft scripted
cover like a Larry David kerbutres not to compare myself
to him or that, but it was a Jaq Janjer.
It was a comedy where I played myself a more
ridiculous version of myself in the show. I had a
(19:41):
sleazy daytime talk show and it wasn't really scripted, and
we would do it loosely like they do Curb. We
would just know here's the scene and go and in.
And I had two kids, and we shot it actually
in my real home here. I live in townhouse in
New York. And it was I'm so proud of it.
It was funny you. It was on the wrong place.
It went on you it needed to be. It was
before streaming really hit like you if you would put
(20:03):
Curb on ten thirty on a Tuesday night in the
USA network, people consume shows like that, not appointment TV,
you know. So it didn't do well in the ratings
that I thought it was. It was hysterical. I made
fun of myself. I was a very I kind of
whatever you would think of me as stereotypical. I played
to the nth degree and I just had the idea
(20:24):
and I just kind of wanted to use another It's interesting.
I was talking to a very well known news person
the other day who was asking me about it and
thinking about doing the same not that same thing, but
a more entertainment scripted thing I said, using a different
muscle is so exciting, and I loved it. It's the
thing I don't say I'm most proud of, but it's
the thing I most surprised myself that I was able
to do, you know, writing it, I created ith acting
(20:47):
in it, you know, just building it from ground zero.
I loved it only the last one season, but but
I love it.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And by the way, and I loved it too.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
If anybody just go on I guess iTunes or Apple,
however you find these things. Just it's called Donnie exclamation point.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Six episodes. Will you will Leaf? I promise you will.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Leave you you will. I loved it, Thank you. I
I wrote a sitcom set in a newsroom. It's comedy,
and this was born out of a frustration I had
been asked to consult on two shows about the news.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Aaron Sorkins The Newsroom.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Which I loved, which was wonderful writing, I mean wonderful,
and Jeff Daniels, I mean Off the Truck.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Oh so good. And I love Aaron, and so that
was great.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I'd be on set at MSNBC, where I used to
have a show, and I'd get a call from Aaron. Okay,
I just saw you arguing with your co host. What
did you guys talk about in the break I was
talked about getting.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Sushi, But so I did that one.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
And then I got asked to consult on the morning
show for Apple. And when I heard the morning show
was going to have Reese and Jennifer Aniston and Steve Carrell,
I thought, oh, good, a comedy because the newsroom was
very much a drama and took the news very serious,
very seriously, very and I thought, you know, I really
just want to be funny.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And then I got in the writer's room and we started.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Talking and I realized, this is not going to be
a comedy.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It's going to be a drama.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
How does it work. I've never consulted on this. So
they bring you into take me through that. What does
that look like?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well for the morning show, they brought me into a
literal writer's room, and this is so typical and funny.
They needed to know what a conservative sounded like because
I don't think they'd ever met one.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, this is like so typical Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So I came in to say, well, here's what I
would say in this situation or here's what a conservative
girl like that's character might do in this situation. So
that was particular, like that was I was brought in
to inform that particular part of it, and I just
remember afterwards being like, well, I can't wait for someone
to call me to consult on a comedy about a newsroom.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And I thought, why am I weaighting? Like, maybe I'll
just write one.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Sure, So I did.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I wrote a pilot. It seems like no one wants
to watch a news room.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Sitcomcoms are tough to sell because streaming doesn't do half
hour comedies. They don't work exactly. I mean, Curve worked.
I think ted Lasso is a half hour, but they're
few and far between. They can't make money on them,
they cancel them internationally. So you're basically stuck with the
broadcast networks that are dying. And that's that's a problem,
you know exactly. Saying when was the last when was
(23:22):
the lass good really good sitcom?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Well, I feel it was veepntes.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Beep was actually I don't remember, but that was on
streaming obviously, But it's very hard to do a I
minded it is, you know, high minded sitcom today.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, just all right. Well, then I don't feel so bad,
don't feel sure.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It is great. I heard like.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I sent it to Aaron, he was like, this is great.
HBO liked it, but they had just done veep and
it's kind of deep in a newsroom, right, and so
they wanted to give it some time. But I don't know,
Maybe I'll shop it around again. I want to go
back to twenty ten. You're host at MSNBC and you
got in a little trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Oh god, you remember this, yes, yes, it was so insane.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Phil Griffin, the head of the MS, who I love
and who was great it was. He such an amazing
TV executive. He said to me, we'll try out it's
kind of weird. We'll try out three in the afternoon,
right for a week, you know, we'll see if that goes,
then maybe we'll give you a show. And the first
wasn't I think it was? The first was the second
day I did? I think now it was so naive,
it was so dumb on my part. We did an
(24:25):
whole segment on anger and TV and news and the producer.
I don't want to blame the producer, but I had
nothing to do with this. In the upfront piece and
the setup piece showed you know, all the angry conservatives,
and then.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Showed Keith Olberman you know network, Yeah, my network, you can't.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
You can't do that. No. Now, Keith, who was a
major asshole, instead of kind of taking him in stride,
went didn't show up for work next day and said
if he's on the air, I'm not on the air.
I mean maybe what a douche, you know. And so,
by the way, it was a mistake. It was a
mistake by the producer because I didn't even know. I
certainly never talked about it, and I was doing going
after the concern servatives. I didn't know what was going
(25:01):
to be in the in the in the in the
piece up up top. So I understand why he was upset.
You can't like make me part of your piece that's
hitting people. But like just he just went went on
a like insane rate.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And then the network said, you were taking time off
to deal with the personal issue.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
That's how fucked up our business is.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah. Yeah, you know, I don't remember what personal action
I had the personal issue, and you know it was Yeah,
it was just one of those great TV moments that
you just go this is some business, you know. But
I remember even learned that they put the producer on leave.
Thank god they didn't fire the producer, yeah, or the
or It wasn't the main wasn't the showrunner. I mean,
it wasn't the EP. It was just somebody who was
(25:38):
putting a piece together, you know, and it was not
to put Heath in that group was not a smart
thing to do.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Well, he's such a douche.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
He once said that my parents should have availed themselves
of Planned Parenthood's services.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Are you serious? Just not a good guy? You know,
eventually the really bad guys get found out.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
You know, a business, he keeps getting hired.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Where you don't really he I mean, he was a
he was a major presence. He had, He had a
big platform, and he was kind of what Rachel is
today at MS. He was then he was kind of
the main anchor or not actually John want to say
what Joe was. I have to stick to my home team,
you know, but you know that's that what he had
a big platform. He doesn't have that anymore.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That that moment aside, like do you stop yourself from
getting personal or nasty or like ad hominem when you're
on the air.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, I I've always believed that. I'd like to think
of myself as strong and straightforward, the direct, But I
don't think you win. I go after a bully. I'll
go after Trump very very hard, But I don't think
you ever win by goating people or tarry people down,
or I'd like to think that who I am shows
on the air. Uh you know that that How would
(26:57):
I describe just just me and just trying to do
the I'm trying to do the right thing at this
stage in my life. You know, I'm not a kid anymore.
I'm sixty seven. I'm going to be sixty seven, and
you kind of want to be on the right side
of things.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
In my this is my father fatherly instincts coming out.
I really worry about us, not in the abstract sense.
I worry about we will no longer be everything that
we take for granted or truly free society. I feel
like that people will continue to be pitted against each other.
I just my good side comes out. Yeah, that's that's
not always my Always issue with people voting for Trump
(27:31):
and I'm not It's like, how do you vote for bad?
How do you vote for me? And how do you
vote for evil? How do you vote for pugnacious? How
do you vote for you know? Deviceive it like it's
just the very thing like truth. What is the first
thing we teach our kids? What is the one thing
you can will always get past it, but you have
to tell me the truth? Yes, the simplest common denomination
we put for our children. I would like to keep
(27:53):
the leader of our country accountable for.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You know, but what you do, it's really specific effect,
and I'm sure it's authentic, But you don't do this
condescending like where you're looking down on Trump voters.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
No, No, first of all, I don't don't do that.
I don't First of all, the people I get angry at,
not that look down, but get angry at. By the way,
if you're a maga guy, if you think he's gonna
you're gonna put more food on your table, or whatever
reason you're it's the people that only care about another
three percent of their taxes, that have a lot of money,
that know right from wrong, and no matter they don't do. Yeah,
(28:31):
that's the people I don't know that I look down
and I get angry at them and I know a
lot some of them are my friends.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, where like, maybe it's not.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Perfect for you, maybe it might cost you an extra
dollar here or there, But don't you care about right
and worship and the very things that people that our
grandfather's bought for in World War Two? Like we're not
gonna do heavy. Don't you have that perspective that goes
beyond narrowly what's better for you. You're in the point
in life where you can make decisions not just what
it's a better faight and isn't that what it's Those
(28:59):
are the people I get frustrated with.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, I get angry at the people on my side,
the conservatives who I know no better of course, that
he's not conservative, that he doesn't care about the values
that we used to care about that I still do
and know better and sell out and.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Just go where the power is. Those are the people
that bother me.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I as a man, not to sound sexist, I wonder
how they look at their wives and their children and
they're doing it. I think the same thing, and like
their friend, like, are you that much of a fucking
weenie as a human being? You know? I had a
am kinsing gram I show a couple of weeks ago,
and I said, the guys used to come up to
you off the record and go, we wish he goes.
You would not believe the names. I could name thirty
(29:41):
well known people that what I was doing when I
was doing, I wish I could do what you were doing.
I know you're right, how do you look at yourself? Yes?
How do you you know? Like it's just and I
know it's their jobs. But if you said to me,
you know you could have the best prime time show
in the world. All you have to do is back Trump.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I would have no way, not like, how do you
look at yourself?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
You're missing your self leveling. You know.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I've had to make those decisions.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I've had to sort of navigate right wing media and
that world through Trump. I've had to make those decisions.
They were not hard decisions for me. They were super
easy because I have to sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
What I love about what I love about you and
why I feel we have a great connection is and
you start out right of center, I start out left
of center. Yeah, but we comfort what we think is
right and fair, and we're able to get out of
our lane. We're not in a lane. We start with
what's right, at least what we think is right and wrong.
They were able to drift into certain places and there
(30:36):
aren't tons of people in the media could do that.
You know. I like that a lot about the show
that I do Joe and make. I really feel Joe
really is driven by his I'm not just saying this.
Christmas is Shoe, that's what. You know. He comes out
what he thinks is right. And yes he's started as
a conservative, but if you really listen to him, he's
going by what he thinks is right as a father,
you know. Yeah, And I see that with you, and
(30:56):
I've always respected that about you.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
You and I have talked a little bit about mental health, yes,
and I've talked about my challenges. You've talked a little
about your challenges. Can you talk a little bit about
what you had to confront what you had to deal with?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Sure? You know, Look, I've had some depression issues and
I've dealt with that, and you know, you find out
people like the Rock and other people. I mean, it's
just it's part of who we are. It's part of
our chemistry. I find sometimes the more unique you are,
the more challenges you can have. And so many people
have issues with anxiety and depression, and you know, you've
(31:47):
written about it, you've talked about it, and you know
it's one thing is nothing to be embarrassed about. Is
any issue, It's no different if you have issues with
something like with anxiety or depression, it's no different than
having high blood pressure or high cholesterol. It's something chemical
in your system that we now have medication that solves.
And so my only suggestion to anybody out there who's
(32:08):
having any kind of struggles, whether it's anxiety or depression
or anything in there, just we've got a lot of
help to get today that there's no reason to suffer
in the way that people had to suffer decades ago.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
How did you get to a place as a man
of a generation, How did you get to a place
where you were just comfortable getting help and then talking
about it?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
You know, it wasn't I don't really talk about it
a lot. Somebody asked me about it, I'll talk about it.
I'm not, you know, an advocate for it. I think
you get secure as a person and you realize it.
It doesn't make you less strong, It actually makes you
stronger to talk about it because maybe you help somebody else,
and seeing other people of tremendous stature who would talk
about it, you know, you know, people like Churchill, and
(32:49):
you know it goes on and on and on. Abe
Lincoln suffered from the great So I don't it's not
a scorecard for how strong you are, how good you are,
as I said, it's like no different than if you
had diabetes.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, what really bothers me because I do talk about
it a lot for all the reasons. What really bothers
me are people who go on TV or on their show,
on their podcast and criticize someone who's talking openly about
their mental health. And this happened a lot with like
Naomi Osaka and Simone Biles and Megan Markle.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I know that was that was just like, it's incomprehensible,
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
It's incomprehensible how you use a platform. I'm talking about
Megan Kelly. I don't know why I don't have to
like use other hide her name. She really went after
these people. And so you're lazy and entitled and rat
and grow up.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And that's hate and ignorance. It's all wrapped into one's hate.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
What is the purpose of that purpose?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Is the purpose is for somebody like that is a
few things? Is a what can I do? That's contrarian.
It's gonna get clicks and bites and you know, oh,
everybody's celebrating her. I'm gonna detegrate her ignorance and just
mean spiritedness, just not decent human being. It's like, you
can't hear this person who publicly obviously went through traumatic
(34:06):
situations both of these people and had to step aside
and did so and bravely talked about it. That surely
helped other young women.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Definitely, yes, And I don't this isn't your beat either,
Like you don't have to weigh in on this. Your
beat is not mental health or sports or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
You don't have to say.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Anything about what Naomi Osaka is going through. You choose
to which I just don't understand. There is zero good
coming out of denigrating someone for being honest about their struggles.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
No. I wonder if somebody, you know, take somebody like
Tucker Carlson, and I wonder I'll put them in the
same yep category. Do they know? Is it performance art?
Are they playing to for him?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
It is?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I know him, I've never met him, and I go nobody.
He's a father, he's got four kids.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I think he's got very smart.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You can't believe this stuff. And then you go with
make it worse or better? Yeah, you know, yeah, I
mean I think it's worse. It's transactional, you know. And
it's just like, how do you the ship that comes
out of the amount? How do you sit there with
a guy who's saying the real devil in World War
Two was not Hitler was Churchill? And you're sitting there going,
how do you give that personal platform? Not child like?
(35:23):
And then go home and face your children. You know,
there are certain things that there are not two sides
to certain things. You know that, and the news sometimes
makes that mistake. Sometimes there is not there's no equivalency
there is, there's no two sides to that argument, you know.
So I don't know. I you know, I always wondered
that about a lot of these guys. You know, I've
met Hannity. Seems like a really good guy.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
You know, I don't know him personally, he's a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
You know, you get the feeling he's in on the
joke a little bit. You know.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Listen, Tucker's smart. I worked for Tucker. Tucker is a
student of history.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Oh, no, of these guys are dumb. I mean, let's
not make any mistake about it, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, so it's I think it's a little worse. Yeah, Okay,
I want to do a lightning round. Okay, okay. Elon
Musk calls you and asks you to help him save
Twitter and his reputation.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
What is your crisis? Camm's advice.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I wouldn't help him because I think he's a bad guy.
I would never take a cigarette advertising when I was
doing advertising, so I could never use my skills to
help somebody or a cause that I thought was bad
or destructive. I think he's like a Bond villain. I
think he's a really dangerous guy.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yes, so you would say no.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
No, I'd say I can't unless it was I met him,
and I genuinely think he had this cathartic moment he
wanted to do good. And it wasn't just completely it was,
you know, like, I've really made a mistake. I've learned
and I realized as a result of some of the
things I put on Twitter. This happened, it's not good.
And if it was something that but if it was
just like I'm in trouble. I need to polish my
(36:57):
image and go find someone else.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Amazing madmen or scandal madmen, not even clothes. Favorite adult beverage.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Favorite adult beverage tequila, to drink tequila with Blanco tequila
with a splash of soda, wedge of orange.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Wait to say that again?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Uh Blanco tequila?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Blanco?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Okay, I think some Vanka tequila and I was like
those those don't go now.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
With a splash of soda wedge of orange. Always pretty
much you'll find that me having a couple of those
most nights.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
I love that. What's your favorite band?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Probably Springsteen?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I put spring I put the Stones and put Springsteen.
Bon Jovi's a friend of mine, so I always put
them up there.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
He did a thing he did, Oh my god, that
was incredible.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
But I mean, for those of you that don't know,
there was somebody that caught Saval's finish. He was taking
a video on a bridge I think in Nashville. There
was a woman who sadly was gonna jump. She was
on there was a ledger of bridge, and he was
happy to be there, and he walked over. He talked
her off, and he got Her. I mean like he
was a real life here. He's a really good guy, Joe,
He's a really good guy.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That's nice to hear. What's your favorite movie?
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Graduate, I'll give him my top. I have a group.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I have a Graduate.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yes, I have Godfather One, Godfather Too, Goodfellas, Scarface, Field
of Dreams, Swept Away, the Original, Swept Away? What else
would I put in there? Love? Actually? What else was popp?
Midnight Cowboy? I love a lot of the late seventies. Yeah,
(38:29):
it sounds pretty the gritty movies Godfather, Midnight Cowboy, Graduate.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Well like French Connection, French Connection.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I think that period of time, you know, Easy Rider,
that late seventies, I mean Godfather's early seventies, mid seventies.
I think it was the top of filmmak.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I just saw one for the first time. Robert Redford
plays a journalist. Not all the presidents man, No, no, no,
not comment door.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yes, yes, it sounds like that.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Uh, there's something days of the.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Condor, Days are the condor?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Not common with it?
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Condor or something like yes, yes, yes, yes, it was great.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I should remember the name. Yeah right, I like that
era too, That's a really good era for film. Yeah, Okay,
this is the last question. It's really important to me
and my culture. Okay, when is iceed coffee season?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Oh, I can't believe. I actually don't have one next
to me. I drink four ice coffee a day, every
day of the year.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, every day of the year is the correct answer.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Every day of the year. I drink like everybody knows.
You know. I start out pumping two two before I
start anything. I'm surprised. I don't what time is it now.
I usually stopped by the afternoon, you know, but all
morning long, I'm juicing on ice coffee. You know.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I don't understand people who are like, that's only for summer.
What would you only eat ice cream in the summer.
Now you have it when you want it.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Because you walked right into my wheelhouse, so that we
are we're separated at birth that way totally.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Well, Donnie, thanks so much. This was really fine, This
was fun.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Really enjoyed it. You say, keep doing what you're doing.
You're doing good, good stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Thanks. That means a lot. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Off the Cup is.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
A production of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason
Choice Network. If you want more, check out the other
Reason Choice Podcasts, Spolitics with Jamel Hill, and Native Land Pod.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
For Off the Cup, I am your host se Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Our executive producers are Me Si Cup, Lauren Hanson, and
Lindsay Hoffman.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Rate and review wherever you get
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,
I've always believed that I'd like to think of myself
as strong and straightforward and direct. But I don't think
you ever win by goading people or carry people down.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Hey, everybody, welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti
anxiety antidote. Today we're talking to someone who is so
good at talking about anything. Seriously, He's one of the
best communicators, I think on the planet. He's a master marketer,
a TV host, host of On Brand with Donnie Deutsch.
I guess that gives it away, and just someone I
love talking to.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
Donnie Deutsch, Welcome, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I see, I appreciate it. I'm such a big fan.
I love the work you do, and so it's an
honor to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Oh I love that.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Right back at jam, let's start at the top with
you have done something amazing. You have made branding your brand,
and I can't really think of anyone else who's done that.
I feel like you're in a category of your own.
Do you feel like you created a category interesting? You know?
Speaker 1 (00:58):
I think, yeah, it's interesting. Brand is such a prevalent term.
I mean we're all brands. Yeah, I mean, if you
have a Facebook page, you're a brand. A brand is
a set of values, what you stand for, what you believe.
So we're all yes every day. You know, we always
think traditionally if a brand is you know, Kellogg Cereal,
But everything is a brand. Every person, every athlete, every movement,
every political party, every politician, We're all brands. And so
(01:19):
I have created this unique space as the guy who
kind of you know, talks about it and has a
lot of experience. Obviously, I spent twenty five years building
an agency. So I love that I'm able to bring
that and talk about that through lensing it through politics
and pop culture and other things like that, because that's
what I bring to the table, and I think other
people don't.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
You're right, Like when I was coming up, even me,
you know, twenty years in was aware of like creating
a brand when I was coming up as a writer
and then started doing TV, and I was aware of it.
I didn't know how to do it, but I was
aware that I should probably be a thing with a
well fought out plan. But it just feels like maybe
(02:01):
you know this intuitively branding because.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You speak off the kuff about it a lot.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, I kind of do. It's in my blood. I
don't you know. I don't know why, I don't know how.
You know, the key to understand, the key to what
make great brands is authenticity, honesty, consistency, staying true to
core values. You know, the great brands over time don't deviate.
And so you know, a challenge for politician if you
want to have a strong brand is you can't be
flip flopping too often. You know. The one thing about
(02:28):
Trump and we know you and I both feel the
same way about him, and that's not very well. He
is very authentic to his brand, who he is, what
he's about, and that's one of the things that resonates.
And I think, by the way, I find most of
what his brand stands for is reprehensible. But I do
give him major points for being a master brander, starting
with starting with himself.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
You know, I have I'm asked about this a lot
because sometimes it's in my shot. I have a giant
picture in my office. It's like five by five of
it's Al Gore playing flag football with his kids on
his front lawn.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
And the story of this picture is twofold.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I'm working at the New York Times many years ago,
and we're in the old building, and these Pulitzer Prize
winning pictures are all over the place. Right, there's one
of like Champion Yankees and da da dah. This one
happens to be over my workspace for the entirety of
my time there. And when we moved to the new building,
they said, you can have one of these, like you
(03:27):
can take one of these homes.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
So I took this one home.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
The story of this photo is this is about two
days after the two thousand election, and you know this,
we didn't have a president yet. We had to do
a recall. But his people told him go outside on
your front lawn, play football with your kids. It'll look
like you're confident. And of course all it did was
look like a photo op. It looked packaged, and that's
(03:52):
all the press talked about, which was this like photo
op and how inauthentic it looked. And it was sort
of a punctuation on a camp pain that was not
very authentical.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Was that a lot of people felt, Yeah, a lot
of people.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Yeah, that's right. It was his thing.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
That was the criticism of al Gore that he just
didn't feel authentic. He was likable enough, he was smart,
he had just been a vice president. He was good looking,
like there were reasons he should have worked.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It's interesting a lot of politicians post their main political
time find it. He found it afterwards through the Internet
and through environmentalism, And yeah, that was always Hillary's problem,
and she posts running for president. Now she has this
kind of I don't give a shit and I'll tell
it like it is and becomes incredibly more likable, more powerful,
(04:38):
and more credible. So I think that's just such a
key thing. And the ones, the politicians that like Bill
Clinton had it, Barack Obama had it, rob O Reagan
had it. The great ones have that.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
Yeah, it's a really interesting way to look at it.
And I always think about it when when I look
at that photo.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Just be authentic.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Even in my business, I find even when people are
disagreeing with me, they know I I'm speaking authentically as myself.
And I think that's important connecting with people. Let's go back,
Let's go back. What kind of kid were you? I
always like asking what kind of kid someone was.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
I was a good kid. I had a really lucky,
happy upbringing. I have two great parents, you know, who
were married, stayed together. I grew up in Queen's kind
of middle to upper middle class. I mean I went
to a big high school, four thousand kids. You know,
it's kind of a tough Queen's high school. So it
kind of made me a little bit of who I was.
But yet had everything at home, every privilege I could want.
(05:33):
So I had the best of all worlds I was.
I was a very popular kid. I was president of
my senior class. I had a really fortunate, happy, productive childhood.
I give it, and I have to, you know, give
the credit to my parents because they set the table
and so. But I was a funny kid. I was
getting in trouble, but not horrible trouble, just mischievous kind
(05:53):
of thing. What you would think, what you would think
I was like as a kid. I was a kid, Okay,
were you?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Were you ambitious?
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (06:00):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I didn't love studying in school. My parents, particularly when
my mother would push me, and I give her credit
for that. I found ambition after I went to college.
I went to Penn, I went to Wharton. I was
kind of the village idiot them. Yeah, I was the
village idiot. I don't know how I got into this day,
but somehow I snuck in the back door and I
found ambition kind of coming out of college. A lot
(06:21):
of my friends got fast starts. They went to Wall Street,
they were doing great. I was working for an ad agency,
Ladge agency, and then I was working for my father
who had an agency at the time, and I was
kind of fucking up and my father fired me. And
after that I came back and I found ambition. Now,
I kind of. I was at twenty four to twenty five.
I was like, shit, this is passing me by. And
I kind of went from there.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
You grew up in Queens.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
As you said, how important is New York to your identity?
Like would you be Donnie if you grew up in Phoenix?
Speaker 1 (06:47):
No? Right now I am in New Yorker full through
all the good and all the gather comes with that,
and I own it proudly. I owed my Queen's heritage proudly.
You know. I remember getting in college the first day
and meeting all these kids that, you know, kind of
had their own BMW's and I didn't. I was like,
what that's your How how is that your car? I
don't even know understand that. But they were soft because
(07:10):
they grew up in very homogeneous you know, either all
preppy communities or all. You know, I don't use the
word bossington. All Jewish communities are all very white, brick communities.
And I grew up in a very integrated, on the
street school, and I just remember I couldn't wait to
play cars with them and take their money, you know.
And and because they didn't have but the one thing
they didn't have, they didn't have both the street smarts,
(07:31):
and they didn't have the same hunger I had. And yeah,
the challenge we all have, of course, our kids are
all growing up comfortably, is you don't want to rob
your kids are the luxury of being hungry? Wow?
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, I mean the places you're describing is for sure.
The town my kid is growing up in. Where is
it Connecticut?
Speaker 1 (07:46):
Okay? Okay, my kids growing up on the Upper East
Side of New York. So yeah, not not going to
be exposed to the same thing, you.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Know, they're not. Yeah, he's just not.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And I think about it a lot because I grew
up middle class, nothing handed to me. My parents both
worked really hard, and I think he just won't know
a lot of the things that I knew, and I
don't know that I can recreate it for him.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Can't do it. Doesn't that you could teach them great values.
It's just different. They're not exposed to the breadth of things.
They're not growing up hungry. I know kids from incredibly
affluent or very prominent families who are incredible hard workers
and achievers. And then I know the quintessential trust for
in idiots. You know. So it's not in absolutely the way,
(08:30):
but it makes it more challenging clearly.
Speaker 3 (08:32):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
And I always found growing up, I moved a lot,
and I went to a lot of different schools, private, public, Catholic,
all girls, you know, all kinds of schools. And I
found ambition was contagious. When I was in a school
where everyone wanted to be great, worked hard, had big goals,
were competitive, I took that on as well. And when
I was in schools where like being cool was more
(08:54):
cool than being smart, it was harder to be ambitious.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
And so maybe it's just like an environmental too.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
They've done a lot of studies on this, and that's
the they say. The most important thing about getting into
a good college is not the rigorous studying, is that
you'll be with a group of kids that will will
become selfulfilling prophecy of how much you strive that they've
done all kinds of psychological studies, not about college, but
about exactly what you're saying. Your peer set defines so much. Galloway,
(09:21):
who I like a lot of talks a lot of
Professor Scott Gallery talks.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
A lot of you know, Oh okay, all right, I'm
onto something. Okay.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
So in the eighties you join your father's firm. Was
that a choice of yours or his?
Speaker 1 (09:34):
My I went first worked at a large agency ogil
Va May the left after a year, went it with
my dad as a small agency, and look, we were
able to kind of scale it and turn it into
a big agency. But I kind of stand on his
shoulders every day. He did the hard part to build
something from nothing. I don't care how much you scale.
You can build a one hundred x times. That's the
I have tremendous respect and I owe so much of
(09:56):
my success to him, because that's why I always I
always get angry at people in family businesses can't understand
that that doesn't mean you haven't also achieved, but you're
still standing on the founder shoulders and don't.
Speaker 3 (10:07):
Right, don't ever forget that you didn't do the hardest part.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
I didn't do that. I don't think I did the hardest. Yeah,
I think I give myself a a. I mean, I
built it to a really big, big, big, big agency.
But I still think he did the hardest part still,
you know, grinding out from nothing.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
The eighties New York advertising man. Yeah, my uncle wasn't it.
My uncle was at BBDA. No, sure, garriy Apollo.
Speaker 1 (10:30):
Will you do that? I know that name somehow, I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I bet you did. He was a big he was
a big wig.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
He did visas everywhere you want to be.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
He was. He was a creative director, right, yes, I think, yeah, okay,
I remember the name.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Yeah, he had big account. You had PEPSI, he had big,
big account.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
So that's BBDO. Yes, yeah, three dose.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You might have met him, which is so funny. He's
about twenty years older than you. But thank you for
saying it just seems like the eighties Manhattan, Yeah, Midtown
advertising was just like, oh it was.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You know, it was a different version of mad Men.
You know, we all know mad Men, sixties Martinis and
you know, the whole kind of thing. It, you know
what didn't have that romanticism and had a kind of
a grittier cocaine flat Wall Street very much. It was
a creative, sexier Wall Street, but it had all but
it was rough, rowdy, and it was crazy and it
(11:23):
was fun. We lived, you know, it was very interesting.
The work environments were very very different. Everybody was dating
each other. It was a very different It was a
very different world and it was it was exactly you know,
it was interesting. Jay Leno opened up when he left
his show. One of the things he did at the end,
he showed in the curtain and he showed all the
families that met at his workplace, and he was most
proud of that. You would never do that today. You know.
(11:44):
It was very, very different, and you know, obviously we've
come to a better place. But so much of work
was the social aspect of it, particularly in a creative
if you were in the TV business, if you were
in the advertising business, if you were you know, in
the journalism business. I mean, you know what newsrooms were
like years ago, and obviously they were like what they
were like, you know, and it's hopefully that is what
they were like, you know what I mean. It has
(12:06):
changed a lot, and it's changed for the better.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
I don't know if most people know this about you,
but your first TV appearance was on the game show
Match Game.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Wow, you did your homework here. Okay, we're gonna find
out about Donnie Deutsch. First, tell us where you're from.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
My name is Donny Deutsch. I'm out here visiting from Queens,
New York.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
I just recently graduated the University of Pennsylvania, and since
that time, I've been working for a large advertising agency
in New York. Oh my god, Oh my god, Oh
my god, Big Afro, Huge jew.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Care is stunning. Here is stunning, Johnny.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Judefro like this with a beard. Yes, that was my
initial TV appearance nineteen seventy nine, the Match Game with
Gene Rayburn. I matched the Super Match five thousand dollars
with Betty White. Let's see if you would I don't
know if you saw the clip, but see if you
would get the answer the way you would do it.
They would give you a word and you don't have
to fill in the other words.
Speaker 3 (12:53):
So, okay, situation blank? Do they give you letters? A
number of letters?
Speaker 1 (12:58):
No? No, no, no, you just you have to that'ch
what the person's gonna say? You know, they write it
down and then you guess what they said.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Situation ship. That's such a modern situation, situation comedy, situation comedy.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
I wouldn't have even thought of that because we just
say sitcom sick.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
Yeah, that to me was the only thing that came
to my head. Yeah, it was the only thing that
came to my heead. But we got so. I won
five thousand dollars in nineteen seventy nine. That was not
that it's not a lot of money to take, but
it was a real lot of money back then, and
it allowed me to stay in California for a period
of time just hang out and it was. It was bizarre,
and it still lives on the internet today. So if
you if you type in dining doos match game, you'll
(13:34):
see a guy with really big afro and a beard
who looks really weird.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
I'll attest it's stunning.
Speaker 1 (13:40):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
Did you ever envision a career on camera?
Speaker 1 (13:56):
No? What happened? Was I used to when I was
running my agi see, I tended to. I was kind
of you know, every industry has a couple of faces
that you know, there's always the divorce lawyer that ends
up on TV or this. I was kind of the
ad guy that you know, if you were the Today
Show or you were CNBC, you want to you know,
I kind of a guy before me was Jerry del
Fanminaho was that guy. I tended to be that guy.
And every time I would do an interview, two things
(14:17):
would happen. I would love it, I'll get a rush,
and the producer or the interview would say, you're really
good at this. You should do this one day, you know.
So I sold my agency and I was looking for
something to do, and I met with an agent and
hooked me up with the NBC and we kind of
went from there. But it was like something just that
I always loved doing. I love performing. I was never
in theater or anything like that, but I think back now,
(14:38):
my favorite class in school was speech, you know, so,
and part of what I did in advertising was perform
and present, you know. I mean, it's a fair you know.
We used to see the Don Draper standing up in
front of the clients and its theater. You're doing theater.
Obviously there's a lot underneath it, and there's a lot
that goes into it. And that's just the kind of
the cherry on the top. But I was always good
at the theater and the presentation that the pitch, so
to speak, And that's what you're doing on TV. You know,
(15:00):
if I'm with a client and I'm pitching, I'm with
you know, I ke it and I'm you know, pitching
them the best way to do their furniture advertising. I
have to sell my vision. I have to sell it
to them. I have to understand my audience put it
to them in a way that they can accept it.
That that get my point across. Well, what are you
doing on the air? What are you doing? You're making
a point and the best way how do I present it?
(15:21):
How do I do it in the most cohesive, you know, succinct,
compelling human way. How do I do it that my
audience is gonna be able to take it in the
way I want them to take it in. So the
kind of the I don't call them the art forms,
but the muscles are kind of the same. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
I think that's really interesting because you say, you know,
you loved being on TV. You got a rush from it,
and I always I'm fascinated by that because I get
nothing from TV physiologically.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
I don't get nervous. It doesn't. It doesn't make me excited.
Speaker 1 (15:49):
I don't get nervous, but I get pupped. I walk
into morning jokes every day.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
Take still, I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
I get a rush from it. It's not that I'm
being on now, not that I'm thinking to myself, Oh,
you're on TV and people watch. It's just, yeah, I'm
in a conversation that matters, you know. That's that somehow
is going to connect, you know. I what I love.
You know, I used to have a show on CBC.
I'm sure the big idea. I love when somebody stops
me on the street and say, you know, I used
to watch a show and I started my business because
(16:15):
of it. Or somebody stops me on the street and says,
you know, you really convinced me about this. You said
about women voting, and I think that's really important. Whatever
it is that at the end of the day, what
are we here for? What do we want to leave
our children? We want to make a difference. I don't
even mean change the warb So if you can inform
I don't mean literally inform, but you know, affect somebody
one movie and somehow add something to their life, to
(16:37):
something you said or thought, What a wonderful gift. And
that's what I get excited about, you know.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
It is that part is gratifying.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
It comes with so many awful other things, but yeah,
that part is for sure gratifying. You said recently when
you had me on your pod, which.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Was great, which the great numbers, by the way, who knew? Right?
Speaker 2 (16:59):
Okay, you said to me, you said, you wear your
insides on your outside, and no one's ever said that
in that way. I love the way you said that,
And I wouldn't know how to do it differently because
I don't think about how I'm doing it.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
That's what that's That's what authenticity is. That's what I mean.
That's kind of an it's kind of like a grimier
way to say authenticity. You know, it's just what you
see is what you get. People can smell it, they
know it. That's what it was. Interesting. Before I had
my show on CBC, I got friendly with Michael J. Fox.
I'm on his board what a privilege to be a
dear friend is? And I asked them for advice. What
(17:36):
do I do? He goes, be yourself. They'll know the
difference if you're not, you know, what I mean. So
like that, they're either gonna buy it, they're not gonna
buy it, but they'll know if you're not. So just
you know, be who you are. And that's why when
everybody says to me, you know, I'm gonna take media
trading or this and that, I'm saying, just be who
you are, don't don't worry about cadences, don't worry about this.
Just just let it. And I think that works for
(17:57):
an actor. I think that works for that, work works
search for a politician. We talked about that. So the
one kudo I'm going to give Trump is he's authentic,
authentically repulsive, but.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
He means it.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
So it's yeah, you know, you can't argue with that.
I mean, you know, take the line out, but you know,
he is what he is and really is. And a
lot of people that scores with a lot of people. Yeah,
a lot of people will say when you watch people
being interviewed WI runner A Trump, well, I know, first
of all, they say, he talks like me. You know,
he sounds like me because he's not talking perfectly. He's
(18:33):
talking about you know, and you know, and I believe him.
He believes what, you know, I don't agree with him,
but I believe him, you know, And yeah, that scores
a lot of points.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I had this conversation with a producer, my producer the
other day. I had written in a script, maybe like
a for syllable word, and he was like, you got
to take that out. It's too big. No one knows
what you're talking about. I'm like, I this is me, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Like this is me.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
I'm a writer, Like this is how I talk. And
he's like, I don't care. You can't be you if
you're gonna be like that for this show. Yes, yes,
So offline we talked about this. I loved the show, Donnie.
It was so fun to watch the.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Short lived comedy on USA now.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
But tell me how it happened, because I just like
developing other things too.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
How did this happen?
Speaker 1 (19:21):
So it basically what it was that people don't know
I did. This is in twenty fifteen, I think, so
you know, about eight years ago, nine years ago, whatever
it is. It was a kind of a soft scripted
cover like a Larry David kerbutres not to compare myself
to him or that, but it was a Jaq Janjer.
It was a comedy where I played myself a more
ridiculous version of myself in the show. I had a
(19:41):
sleazy daytime talk show and it wasn't really scripted, and
we would do it loosely like they do Curb. We
would just know here's the scene and go and in.
And I had two kids, and we shot it actually
in my real home here. I live in townhouse in
New York. And it was I'm so proud of it.
It was funny you. It was on the wrong place.
It went on you it needed to be. It was
before streaming really hit like you if you would put
(20:03):
Curb on ten thirty on a Tuesday night in the
USA network, people consume shows like that, not appointment TV,
you know. So it didn't do well in the ratings
that I thought it was. It was hysterical. I made
fun of myself. I was a very I kind of
whatever you would think of me as stereotypical. I played
to the nth degree and I just had the idea
(20:24):
and I just kind of wanted to use another It's interesting.
I was talking to a very well known news person
the other day who was asking me about it and
thinking about doing the same not that same thing, but
a more entertainment scripted thing I said, using a different
muscle is so exciting, and I loved it. It's the
thing I don't say I'm most proud of, but it's
the thing I most surprised myself that I was able
to do, you know, writing it, I created ith acting
(20:47):
in it, you know, just building it from ground zero.
I loved it only the last one season, but but
I love it.
Speaker 3 (20:53):
And by the way, and I loved it too.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
If anybody just go on I guess iTunes or Apple,
however you find these things. Just it's called Donnie exclamation point.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
Six episodes. Will you will Leaf? I promise you will.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Leave you you will. I loved it, Thank you. I
I wrote a sitcom set in a newsroom. It's comedy,
and this was born out of a frustration I had
been asked to consult on two shows about the news.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
Aaron Sorkins The Newsroom.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
Which I loved, which was wonderful writing, I mean wonderful,
and Jeff Daniels, I mean Off the Truck.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Oh so good. And I love Aaron, and so that
was great.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I'd be on set at MSNBC, where I used to
have a show, and I'd get a call from Aaron. Okay,
I just saw you arguing with your co host. What
did you guys talk about in the break I was
talked about getting.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Sushi, But so I did that one.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
And then I got asked to consult on the morning
show for Apple. And when I heard the morning show
was going to have Reese and Jennifer Aniston and Steve Carrell,
I thought, oh, good, a comedy because the newsroom was
very much a drama and took the news very serious,
very seriously, very and I thought, you know, I really
just want to be funny.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
And then I got in the writer's room and we started.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
Talking and I realized, this is not going to be
a comedy.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
It's going to be a drama.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
How does it work. I've never consulted on this. So
they bring you into take me through that. What does
that look like?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
Well for the morning show, they brought me into a
literal writer's room, and this is so typical and funny.
They needed to know what a conservative sounded like because
I don't think they'd ever met one.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah, this is like so typical Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
So I came in to say, well, here's what I
would say in this situation or here's what a conservative
girl like that's character might do in this situation. So
that was particular, like that was I was brought in
to inform that particular part of it, and I just
remember afterwards being like, well, I can't wait for someone
to call me to consult on a comedy about a newsroom.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
And I thought, why am I weaighting? Like, maybe I'll
just write one.
Speaker 1 (22:54):
Sure, So I did.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
I wrote a pilot. It seems like no one wants
to watch a news room.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Sitcomcoms are tough to sell because streaming doesn't do half
hour comedies. They don't work exactly. I mean, Curve worked.
I think ted Lasso is a half hour, but they're
few and far between. They can't make money on them,
they cancel them internationally. So you're basically stuck with the
broadcast networks that are dying. And that's that's a problem,
you know exactly. Saying when was the last when was
(23:22):
the lass good really good sitcom?
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Well, I feel it was veepntes.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Beep was actually I don't remember, but that was on
streaming obviously, But it's very hard to do a I
minded it is, you know, high minded sitcom today.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, just all right. Well, then I don't feel so bad,
don't feel sure.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
It's great.
Speaker 3 (23:42):
It is great. I heard like.
Speaker 2 (23:43):
I sent it to Aaron, he was like, this is great.
HBO liked it, but they had just done veep and
it's kind of deep in a newsroom, right, and so
they wanted to give it some time. But I don't know,
Maybe I'll shop it around again. I want to go
back to twenty ten. You're host at MSNBC and you
got in a little trouble.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Oh god, you remember this, yes, yes, it was so insane.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Phil Griffin, the head of the MS, who I love
and who was great it was. He such an amazing
TV executive. He said to me, we'll try out it's
kind of weird. We'll try out three in the afternoon,
right for a week, you know, we'll see if that goes,
then maybe we'll give you a show. And the first
wasn't I think it was? The first was the second
day I did? I think now it was so naive,
it was so dumb on my part. We did an
(24:25):
whole segment on anger and TV and news and the producer.
I don't want to blame the producer, but I had
nothing to do with this. In the upfront piece and
the setup piece showed you know, all the angry conservatives,
and then.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
Showed Keith Olberman you know network, Yeah, my network, you can't.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
You can't do that. No. Now, Keith, who was a
major asshole, instead of kind of taking him in stride,
went didn't show up for work next day and said
if he's on the air, I'm not on the air.
I mean maybe what a douche, you know. And so,
by the way, it was a mistake. It was a
mistake by the producer because I didn't even know. I
certainly never talked about it, and I was doing going
after the concern servatives. I didn't know what was going
(25:01):
to be in the in the in the in the
piece up up top. So I understand why he was upset.
You can't like make me part of your piece that's
hitting people. But like just he just went went on
a like insane rate.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
And then the network said, you were taking time off
to deal with the personal issue.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
That's how fucked up our business is.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Yeah. Yeah, you know, I don't remember what personal action
I had the personal issue, and you know it was Yeah,
it was just one of those great TV moments that
you just go this is some business, you know. But
I remember even learned that they put the producer on leave.
Thank god they didn't fire the producer, yeah, or the
or It wasn't the main wasn't the showrunner. I mean,
it wasn't the EP. It was just somebody who was
(25:38):
putting a piece together, you know, and it was not
to put Heath in that group was not a smart
thing to do.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
Well, he's such a douche.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
He once said that my parents should have availed themselves
of Planned Parenthood's services.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Are you serious? Just not a good guy? You know,
eventually the really bad guys get found out.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
You know, a business, he keeps getting hired.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
Where you don't really he I mean, he was a
he was a major presence. He had, He had a
big platform, and he was kind of what Rachel is
today at MS. He was then he was kind of
the main anchor or not actually John want to say
what Joe was. I have to stick to my home team,
you know, but you know that's that what he had
a big platform. He doesn't have that anymore.
Speaker 3 (26:22):
That's true.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That that moment aside, like do you stop yourself from
getting personal or nasty or like ad hominem when you're
on the air.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, I I've always believed that. I'd like to think
of myself as strong and straightforward, the direct, But I
don't think you win. I go after a bully. I'll
go after Trump very very hard, But I don't think
you ever win by goating people or tarry people down,
or I'd like to think that who I am shows
on the air. Uh you know that that How would
(26:57):
I describe just just me and just trying to do
the I'm trying to do the right thing at this
stage in my life. You know, I'm not a kid anymore.
I'm sixty seven. I'm going to be sixty seven, and
you kind of want to be on the right side
of things.
Speaker 3 (27:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
In my this is my father fatherly instincts coming out.
I really worry about us, not in the abstract sense.
I worry about we will no longer be everything that
we take for granted or truly free society. I feel
like that people will continue to be pitted against each other.
I just my good side comes out. Yeah, that's that's
not always my Always issue with people voting for Trump
(27:31):
and I'm not It's like, how do you vote for bad?
How do you vote for me? And how do you
vote for evil? How do you vote for pugnacious? How
do you vote for you know? Deviceive it like it's
just the very thing like truth. What is the first
thing we teach our kids? What is the one thing
you can will always get past it, but you have
to tell me the truth? Yes, the simplest common denomination
we put for our children. I would like to keep
(27:53):
the leader of our country accountable for.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
You know, but what you do, it's really specific effect,
and I'm sure it's authentic, But you don't do this
condescending like where you're looking down on Trump voters.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
No, No, first of all, I don't don't do that.
I don't First of all, the people I get angry at,
not that look down, but get angry at. By the way,
if you're a maga guy, if you think he's gonna
you're gonna put more food on your table, or whatever
reason you're it's the people that only care about another
three percent of their taxes, that have a lot of money,
that know right from wrong, and no matter they don't do. Yeah,
(28:31):
that's the people I don't know that I look down
and I get angry at them and I know a
lot some of them are my friends.
Speaker 3 (28:35):
Yeah, where like, maybe it's not.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Perfect for you, maybe it might cost you an extra
dollar here or there, But don't you care about right
and worship and the very things that people that our
grandfather's bought for in World War Two? Like we're not
gonna do heavy. Don't you have that perspective that goes
beyond narrowly what's better for you. You're in the point
in life where you can make decisions not just what
it's a better faight and isn't that what it's Those
(28:59):
are the people I get frustrated with.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, I get angry at the people on my side,
the conservatives who I know no better of course, that
he's not conservative, that he doesn't care about the values
that we used to care about that I still do
and know better and sell out and.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Just go where the power is. Those are the people
that bother me.
Speaker 1 (29:20):
I as a man, not to sound sexist, I wonder
how they look at their wives and their children and
they're doing it. I think the same thing, and like
their friend, like, are you that much of a fucking
weenie as a human being? You know? I had a
am kinsing gram I show a couple of weeks ago,
and I said, the guys used to come up to
you off the record and go, we wish he goes.
You would not believe the names. I could name thirty
(29:41):
well known people that what I was doing when I
was doing, I wish I could do what you were doing.
I know you're right, how do you look at yourself? Yes?
How do you you know? Like it's just and I
know it's their jobs. But if you said to me,
you know you could have the best prime time show
in the world. All you have to do is back Trump.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
I would have no way, not like, how do you
look at yourself?
Speaker 1 (30:00):
You're missing your self leveling. You know.
Speaker 3 (30:03):
I've had to make those decisions.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I've had to sort of navigate right wing media and
that world through Trump. I've had to make those decisions.
They were not hard decisions for me. They were super
easy because I have to sleep at night.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
What I love about what I love about you and
why I feel we have a great connection is and
you start out right of center, I start out left
of center. Yeah, but we comfort what we think is
right and fair, and we're able to get out of
our lane. We're not in a lane. We start with
what's right, at least what we think is right and wrong.
They were able to drift into certain places and there
(30:36):
aren't tons of people in the media could do that.
You know. I like that a lot about the show
that I do Joe and make. I really feel Joe
really is driven by his I'm not just saying this.
Christmas is Shoe, that's what. You know. He comes out
what he thinks is right. And yes he's started as
a conservative, but if you really listen to him, he's
going by what he thinks is right as a father,
you know. Yeah, And I see that with you, and
(30:56):
I've always respected that about you.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
You and I have talked a little bit about mental health, yes,
and I've talked about my challenges. You've talked a little
about your challenges. Can you talk a little bit about
what you had to confront what you had to deal with?
Speaker 1 (31:26):
Sure? You know, Look, I've had some depression issues and
I've dealt with that, and you know, you find out
people like the Rock and other people. I mean, it's
just it's part of who we are. It's part of
our chemistry. I find sometimes the more unique you are,
the more challenges you can have. And so many people
have issues with anxiety and depression, and you know, you've
(31:47):
written about it, you've talked about it, and you know
it's one thing is nothing to be embarrassed about. Is
any issue, It's no different if you have issues with
something like with anxiety or depression, it's no different than
having high blood pressure or high cholesterol. It's something chemical
in your system that we now have medication that solves.
And so my only suggestion to anybody out there who's
(32:08):
having any kind of struggles, whether it's anxiety or depression
or anything in there, just we've got a lot of
help to get today that there's no reason to suffer
in the way that people had to suffer decades ago.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
How did you get to a place as a man
of a generation, How did you get to a place
where you were just comfortable getting help and then talking
about it?
Speaker 1 (32:28):
You know, it wasn't I don't really talk about it
a lot. Somebody asked me about it, I'll talk about it.
I'm not, you know, an advocate for it. I think
you get secure as a person and you realize it.
It doesn't make you less strong, It actually makes you
stronger to talk about it because maybe you help somebody else,
and seeing other people of tremendous stature who would talk
about it, you know, you know, people like Churchill, and
(32:49):
you know it goes on and on and on. Abe
Lincoln suffered from the great So I don't it's not
a scorecard for how strong you are, how good you are,
as I said, it's like no different than if you
had diabetes.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yeah, what really bothers me because I do talk about
it a lot for all the reasons. What really bothers
me are people who go on TV or on their show,
on their podcast and criticize someone who's talking openly about
their mental health. And this happened a lot with like
Naomi Osaka and Simone Biles and Megan Markle.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I know that was that was just like, it's incomprehensible,
you know.
Speaker 2 (33:26):
It's incomprehensible how you use a platform. I'm talking about
Megan Kelly. I don't know why I don't have to
like use other hide her name. She really went after
these people. And so you're lazy and entitled and rat
and grow up.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
And that's hate and ignorance. It's all wrapped into one's hate.
Speaker 3 (33:42):
What is the purpose of that purpose?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Is the purpose is for somebody like that is a
few things? Is a what can I do? That's contrarian.
It's gonna get clicks and bites and you know, oh,
everybody's celebrating her. I'm gonna detegrate her ignorance and just
mean spiritedness, just not decent human being. It's like, you
can't hear this person who publicly obviously went through traumatic
(34:06):
situations both of these people and had to step aside
and did so and bravely talked about it. That surely
helped other young women.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Definitely, yes, And I don't this isn't your beat either,
Like you don't have to weigh in on this. Your
beat is not mental health or sports or whatever.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
You don't have to say.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Anything about what Naomi Osaka is going through. You choose
to which I just don't understand. There is zero good
coming out of denigrating someone for being honest about their struggles.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
No. I wonder if somebody, you know, take somebody like
Tucker Carlson, and I wonder I'll put them in the
same yep category. Do they know? Is it performance art?
Are they playing to for him?
Speaker 3 (34:54):
It is?
Speaker 1 (34:54):
I know him, I've never met him, and I go nobody.
He's a father, he's got four kids.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
I think he's got very smart.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
You can't believe this stuff. And then you go with
make it worse or better? Yeah, you know, yeah, I
mean I think it's worse. It's transactional, you know. And
it's just like, how do you the ship that comes
out of the amount? How do you sit there with
a guy who's saying the real devil in World War
Two was not Hitler was Churchill? And you're sitting there going,
how do you give that personal platform? Not child like?
(35:23):
And then go home and face your children. You know,
there are certain things that there are not two sides
to certain things. You know that, and the news sometimes
makes that mistake. Sometimes there is not there's no equivalency
there is, there's no two sides to that argument, you know.
So I don't know. I you know, I always wondered
that about a lot of these guys. You know, I've
met Hannity. Seems like a really good guy.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
You know, I don't know him personally, he's a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (35:47):
You know, you get the feeling he's in on the
joke a little bit. You know.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Listen, Tucker's smart. I worked for Tucker. Tucker is a
student of history.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Oh, no, of these guys are dumb. I mean, let's
not make any mistake about it, right, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah, so it's I think it's a little worse. Yeah, Okay,
I want to do a lightning round. Okay, okay. Elon
Musk calls you and asks you to help him save
Twitter and his reputation.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
What is your crisis? Camm's advice.
Speaker 1 (36:19):
I wouldn't help him because I think he's a bad guy.
I would never take a cigarette advertising when I was
doing advertising, so I could never use my skills to
help somebody or a cause that I thought was bad
or destructive. I think he's like a Bond villain. I
think he's a really dangerous guy.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
Yes, so you would say no.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
No, I'd say I can't unless it was I met him,
and I genuinely think he had this cathartic moment he
wanted to do good. And it wasn't just completely it was,
you know, like, I've really made a mistake. I've learned
and I realized as a result of some of the
things I put on Twitter. This happened, it's not good.
And if it was something that but if it was
just like I'm in trouble. I need to polish my
(36:57):
image and go find someone else.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Amazing madmen or scandal madmen, not even clothes. Favorite adult beverage.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Favorite adult beverage tequila, to drink tequila with Blanco tequila
with a splash of soda, wedge of orange.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Wait to say that again?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Uh Blanco tequila?
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Blanco?
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Okay, I think some Vanka tequila and I was like
those those don't go now.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
With a splash of soda wedge of orange. Always pretty
much you'll find that me having a couple of those
most nights.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
I love that. What's your favorite band?
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Probably Springsteen?
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Uh?
Speaker 1 (37:33):
I put spring I put the Stones and put Springsteen.
Bon Jovi's a friend of mine, so I always put
them up there.
Speaker 3 (37:39):
He did a thing he did, Oh my god, that
was incredible.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
But I mean, for those of you that don't know,
there was somebody that caught Saval's finish. He was taking
a video on a bridge I think in Nashville. There
was a woman who sadly was gonna jump. She was
on there was a ledger of bridge, and he was
happy to be there, and he walked over. He talked
her off, and he got Her. I mean like he
was a real life here. He's a really good guy, Joe,
He's a really good guy.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
That's nice to hear. What's your favorite movie?
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Graduate, I'll give him my top. I have a group.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
I have a Graduate.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Yes, I have Godfather One, Godfather Too, Goodfellas, Scarface, Field
of Dreams, Swept Away, the Original, Swept Away? What else
would I put in there? Love? Actually? What else was popp?
Midnight Cowboy? I love a lot of the late seventies. Yeah,
(38:29):
it sounds pretty the gritty movies Godfather, Midnight Cowboy, Graduate.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
Well like French Connection, French Connection.
Speaker 1 (38:36):
I think that period of time, you know, Easy Rider,
that late seventies, I mean Godfather's early seventies, mid seventies.
I think it was the top of filmmak.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
I just saw one for the first time. Robert Redford
plays a journalist. Not all the presidents man, No, no, no,
not comment door.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yes, yes, it sounds like that.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Uh, there's something days of the.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Condor, Days are the condor?
Speaker 1 (39:04):
Not common with it?
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Condor or something like yes, yes, yes, yes, it was great.
Speaker 2 (39:08):
I should remember the name. Yeah right, I like that
era too, That's a really good era for film. Yeah, Okay,
this is the last question. It's really important to me
and my culture. Okay, when is iceed coffee season?
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Oh, I can't believe. I actually don't have one next
to me. I drink four ice coffee a day, every
day of the year.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Yeah, every day of the year is the correct answer.
Speaker 1 (39:28):
Every day of the year. I drink like everybody knows.
You know. I start out pumping two two before I
start anything. I'm surprised. I don't what time is it now.
I usually stopped by the afternoon, you know, but all
morning long, I'm juicing on ice coffee. You know.
Speaker 2 (39:42):
I don't understand people who are like, that's only for summer.
What would you only eat ice cream in the summer.
Now you have it when you want it.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Because you walked right into my wheelhouse, so that we
are we're separated at birth that way totally.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Well, Donnie, thanks so much. This was really fine, This
was fun.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
Really enjoyed it. You say, keep doing what you're doing.
You're doing good, good stuff.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
Thanks. That means a lot. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (40:05):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (40:07):
Off the Cup is.
Speaker 2 (40:07):
A production of iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason
Choice Network. If you want more, check out the other
Reason Choice Podcasts, Spolitics with Jamel Hill, and Native Land Pod.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
For Off the Cup, I am your host se Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Our executive producers are Me Si Cup, Lauren Hanson, and
Lindsay Hoffman.
Speaker 3 (40:27):
Rate and review wherever you get
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,
Host
S.E. Cupp
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