April 9, 2025 • 48 mins
This week, S.E. sits down with actor and screenwriter Johnathon Schaech! S.E. digs into the transcendent appeal of his 1996 comedy/musical That Thing You Do and Johnathon's misrepresented character, James. They talk about the movie's ever-growing fan base, his musical talents, and his friendship with Tom Hanks. S.E. and Johnathon also go back to his childhood, his early roles, and the moments — and people — that changed the course of his life. Johnathon bravely shares with S.E. his personal nightmare — his own MeToo moment — how that trauma has impacted him, and how he works to move beyond it. Johnathon and S.E. talk about the importance of speaking out and why they both chose to do so. Before closing out the conversation, S.E. quizzes Johnathon about “Leather Coat Guy” (IYKYK)!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
When I did speak out, it was important to me
because I knew that that was a thing that was
holding me back from living my life to the fullest.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
You know, I talk a lot on this podcast about
mental health, and that's for you, that's for listeners primarily.
I believe firmly that the more we talk about mental health,
the easier it is to talk about mental health. And
that's the point for me this pod. While it's not
a mental health podcast per se, it's an interview show
(00:34):
where we create a space for mental health to come
up naturally because that's.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
What I want.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I wanted to come up naturally in conversation and not
be something where like can I bring this up?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Can I talk about this?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And so I love giving my guests and my listeners
those opportunities, but listen, I'll be very clear.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
It is also for me. My life in the.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
News is taxing. The news is triggering for me, which
is really convenient. It's my job and it can feel
impossible to get a break from it because the news,
the news will bombard you. I feel like it's like
Isla Fisher in Wedding crashers. She's like, I'll find you. Seriously,
(01:16):
that is how it feels sometimes. So this pod Off
the Cup is truly a gift to me as well.
I love it so much. Getting to talk to interesting
people about their lives, about their challenges, share funny stories.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It is awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So thank you for tuning in, And today I have
one of those awesome, interesting, talented, brave guests. He's an
actor and screenwriter with a very long career in television
and film, from How to Make an American Quilt to
That Thing You Do Houdiniteray Donovan, Legends of Tomorrow to
the series Blue Ridge.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Now it's Jonathan Shack. Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Thank you for doing this. I'm really excited for this
conversation well.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
After that lead, and I'm very very curious to see
if I can't be of service to you.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You're gonna be, You're gonna be.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I just did one yesterday, and I'm reminded of this
all the time. When you just talk about mental health
sort of like naturally and normally things come up. And
I learned something new about my own mental health from
someone else yesterday, just in conversation. So when you open
this door, magical things can happen. So we'll get into it.
(02:25):
We will get there. But first, I love that thing
you do so much. I love it so much. It
is a perfect movie. You've done so much. But is
that what most people would know you from?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Absolutely? Yeah, you think.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Was it a big turning point for you in your career?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You know, at the time it was not that big
of a deal. It didn't wasn't number one at the
box office. People love the movie over time. It's still
that movie that just resonates with people and they watch
it all over and over again.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, yes, we do, and every single day.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So one stops me and tells me how much I
love the movie. Go, can I take a picture with you?
I love Jimmy and that thing you do well.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I use very frequently in my text conversations the.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Meme of I quit, I quit, I quit.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, I use it all the time because, like when
I'm done with something, it's just the perfect meme to send.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Did you when you got that role? Did you sing
or play an instrument?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No? I didn't. When I met with when I auditioned
for Tom, he told me after the auditions like, you know,
I love your acting, That's all I care about. But
we're going to teach you how to play the guitar
and sing. But we already have somebody for the voice
for the vocals. Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Did Steve Zon know how to play guitar.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, he's very He was a very good guitar player.
He picked a lot and yeah to play. He was
in a band. He was like eighteen years old slapping
the bass. Yeah. Ever, Scott had to learn from scratch, had.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
To learn Tom had to learn the drum.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
But that must have been so fun. Was it like
band camp?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Exactly? That's exactly with great teachers. One thing, Gary Getsman,
who he worked. He made a lot of documentaries on
music and he was in the music industry. He worked
with Jonathan Demi.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So he was instrumental in getting us to be one
point with our chords. He said, I want I'm gonna
I'm going to cut to whatever is right, so if
you're on the right chord, it'll be in the movie.
So they would we would do takes after takes, make
sure everyone was playing the song and if you heard it,
it would get by. This wasn't good enough.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I think it's funny because the song plays a lot.
That thing you do plays a lot during the movie,
but when you're in the movie, you don't feel bored
by it because it builds.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
It's almost like Bolero, you know, it builds over the
course of You get a snippet, then it it gets
a little better, then it gets more refined, and by
the end you're seeing the real version and you're.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Like, oh, good, yeah, you've I mean not everyone gets that,
but directors have talked to me about like movies that
they made where they were like, you know, I looked,
I studied that thing you do because of that very thing,
and the very beginning it's very little, it's rough, and
then you get a little bit better, you get a
little bit better, and it gets more refined. And they
never played the you know one section too many times.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, it's it's really clever the way it un folds
over the course of the movie.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
How did the role come to you? How did you
get that audition?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I had a great agent, her name was Eileen Feldman,
and I had done American Quilt, So yeah, it was
a torture's audition process and I won that role. So
the casting director knew me from that and they were
pretty high on me. But that audition, there is a
line of people.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Like who else that people would know was up for
that role.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I remember seeing anyone that I knew at the time,
but it was everybody, everybody, all of them.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yep, your character Jimmy was such a jerk, but also
part of me really identified with him, like these guys
should take it as seriously as Jimmy is taking it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Do you feel like James was misunderstood?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
What a great chance in life, you know, had this
great opportunity and we'll let it go and this one's.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Going to Vegas and this one's joining the Marines.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
He's serious about the music. And you know, over time,
I've had Rascal Flats, I've had Busfalo's Springfield like they
were like we have. I was Jimmy, you know, in
the band, and it's amazing understood like I was. I
didn't mean to be a jerk, but I was so
into our work and if I wasn't like that, we
would never have been successful.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yes, alone in his principles for a reason.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
You were alone in your principles because you believed in
your talent. You knew you had to make more music,
and these guys kind of just wanted to have fun,
you know.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Billy Zabkov got to look at his character differently in
Cobra Kai, and I talked to the guys that made
Cobra Kai about, you know, doing the same thing with
Jimmy because he's so misunderstood. It's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Oh my god, I love that. You know, in the movie,
a lot of the big crowds looked to me like, Cgi, Yeah,
did you ever play in front of a real big audience? Yes,
you did? Which one was that? Was that? In come
with the scene with Kevin Pollock when Steve was.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Singing come on Pretty Babe.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Oh yeah, Oh so that was in front of a
real audience and it was electric.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
We had so much fun that day. It was a magical.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Oh that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What they would do is like for the big fair scene,
they would have all these extras for this one section,
and then they move all the extras to this section.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And then they just put it together.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, that's amazing, Right, that's how they used to do it.
And you know all this stuff with Ai, I'm like, man,
I would just put like fake people throughout the whole
thing and make it a lot easier, right.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, ah, that's amazing. In twenty twenty one, Eerie PA
hosted a Wonders Night where you and Tom and Steve
Zon reunited. How fun was that?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
It was magic? I mean we had a line going
around the stadium that people had brought, you know, merchandise
from that thing you do for us to sign. And
everyone loved the movie, Like there are fans in the movie,
and people flew from California, you know, someone came from Alabama.
It was like it was just a and there were
(08:38):
very little press, but we it was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I'm sure not every movie gets a chance to like reunite.
I mean without a sequel, you guys, you guys have
that fan base that just wants to keep reconnecting with it.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And it's it's interesting because it played on television. I
don't know exactly what happened. It wasn't a box office
success as that. And Tom has been very vocal about
the critics.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, he has repeat what he said, Yeah, it's dirty,
and I'm like, go Tom, Yeah, and they were, you know,
there no one like embraced him because he was just
so successful at the time, and they didn't really see
the magic in it at the time.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And over and Gary gets men and Tom. Gary just
looked at his partner and I was like, I'm going
to show the Worldless movie over and over and over
again so they can see the magic that was made.
And I think new audiences, younger audience have got to
really experience it. So many people come to me like,
I'm a musician, they say, and it's because of that
(09:42):
thing you do. Stop so many I can't even count on,
you know, so many people.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
That must be so fulfilling and rewarding.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, I'm not a musician, but I'm just glad that
they pursued their dreams.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, but that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Just to be an inspiration to someone that's that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Well, the movie is perfect. It is magic, And I
want to talk about the rest of your career. But first,
what kind of kid were you?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I was a little guy, always smaller than everybody, always
trying to compensate for my size. Okay, okay, I see
they would say, very feisty.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay, were you funny? Were you did you were you
looking for attention?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Were you performative?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I wasn't performative, that's for sure. Okay, I was an artist.
I loved drawing and painting.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Okay, were you quiet?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
They would say. I was quiet until I got into
like sports or something like that, and it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
What sports did you get into?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, I got cut from every team I've ever had,
all the sports that I loved. They wouldn't let me
play football because I was only ninety eight pounds in
high school. Yeah, but I played baseball. They cut me
in baseball because it was too tiny. And then I started.
I was playing lacrosse ever since I was young, and
so I really started playing more lacrosse and I made
the lacrosse team and then it became really good lacrosse. Okay, wrestled.
(11:00):
I was a ninety pound wrestler.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
This was Edgewood High School.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, Edgewood High School? Was it so that? No, I'm
just kidding.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I think I found this wow, And I found this.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh my goodness, see a little guy all lips At
the time.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I'm holding up Jonathan's high school yearbook and yearbook picture
for people who don't know, because that's what.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I like to do.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I like to make people really uncomfortable about how much
I know about them.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Good job.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, I feel like lacrosse was mandatory in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, it pretty much was. And you know, my son
is now playing lacrosse here in Tennessee. That's fun. I
never thought he would play lacrosse, especially See. But we're
having so much fun.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Your dad was a cop, yeah, former city cop.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Was he strict?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, it was brutal. It's tough, tough cop, great human being,
tough cop.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Were you allowed to do stuff that your friends were
allowed to do?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I probably wouldn't do them because those just respectful of
my father. What he did, I didn't get in much trouble. Yeah.
So yeah, older than I started the ruining the bell.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Correct me if I'm wrong. You seem to be wearing
a bow tie in this picture.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I know. I was just thinking the same thing, like
where did we get bow ties? Like? What was that
the prom? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Bow ties? This is the eighties, not the fifties. I
want people to know you're not that old. So when
do you decide you want to be an actor?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's when my rebellions started to happen. My father had
My mom and my dad broke up when I was
a junior and I think that when that happened, it
was a tough time for me, and I just saw
the world differently, like it just kind of broke everything,
and I was able to say, you know what, what
(12:53):
do I want to do with my life. I'm not
going to do what everyone else is telling me I
should do because it's just not fitting me. And I
started to try different things. I listened to what was available,
and then I kept thinking I wanted the always wanted
the dance, right. I thought I could be a dancer.
(13:14):
My father got me this an extra role on the
set of Hairspray in downtown Baltimore, and I too scared
and I didn't show up. So that holds onto me
like I didn't do and I kept thinking, I really
wanted to be a strange Usually people take drama classes
in high school. It wasn't me logical. I didn't do
(13:35):
it back then. I better do it now. And I
took one class at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
The teacher was Sam mc ready, and I just thought,
you know what, I can actually do this. I remember
watching Tom Cruise in a movie Top Done. I could
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Uh huh, I mean it's so out.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Of the out of the world that I lived in.
But I just I just thought, and I could do
that I'm supposed to do. And there's this Richard Mark song.
If you remember this song, it's not like in the
eighties wherever you go whatever.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You right here waiting for you. Yes, yeah, of course
I know it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And I know it's a romantic song. But all I
kept hearing is I have to go somewhere. I have
to be somewhere, I have to do something. I have
a purpose.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh have you told Richard Marks that story?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I told him at He's like, that's amazing, Jonathan, You're
not the first person to say that to me.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But I know Richard, he's a friend of mine. I
have to ask him about it. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Is that Neat? I thought that was so that's great.
You sit across with the guy that app you, you know,
break out of the small town.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yes, so then you go and you study with Roy London.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Oh yeah, what was that like? Well, you know, I
think that this part of my life is I've really
been looking at that part of my life. And Brad
Pittman has been talking about, or at least he's mentioned
something during his press conference about Roy where they asked
him and it's all over the news in my world,
(15:07):
and he've had the same experience that I did. That
this man said, you want to be an actor, you
need to know who you are and you need to,
you know, be open to try new things. And that
basically taught life lessons. And those life lessons just got
(15:28):
me out of my shell. Yeah, we changed my mind.
It was more than acting. Yeah, it was more than acting. Yeah.
Really like this small little group of really courageous human beings.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
After the break, I talked to Jonathan Shack about one
of the darkest times of his professional and personal life. Well,
you get a big break with the period drama Sparrow,
(16:03):
a Zephyrelli film. This should have been a wonderful experience
for a young actor, but it was actually a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I was a compliet nightmare for you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And you wrote a very brave and compelling piece many
years later for People magazine about what happened during that shoot.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
I'm wondering if you want to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So, you know, I learned a lot since I spoke out.
But when I did speak out, it was it was
important to me because I knew that that was a
thing that was holding me back from living my life
to the fullest and experiencing life. I was kind of
always sheltering myself or abusing myself in certain ways because
(16:44):
of this incident, because of this trauma, because of this
traumaea and what happened. I'd learned this late. I spoke
out about it, and I couldn't figure out when it happened.
I mean, I was twenty one, twenty two years old,
and you know, it just was something I just didn't
want to deal with. I was not gonna share with anybody,
(17:05):
just gonna I won't interfere with my life.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
What is this because let me just stop you. Is
that because you didn't want it to like define you?
Or is it because you were ashamed?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Well, shame took over, you know. There's So what happened
was during the night after the audition, the screen test,
he flew me from Los Angeles, his producers and his
whole team. So me and my roommate, of all the
thousand people that he auditioned, me and my roommate went
(17:37):
out there. And this is how I learned a lot
because I talked to my roommate about it, and I
wouldn't have got that kind of information if I hadn't
spoke to him, because he was he's an acting teacher,
and he was literally like, John, did this happened? Yeah,
you did this to me and that's not you. So
you were triggered by something that happened. And I was like, man,
this is exactly what happened. He came into my hotel
(17:58):
room in the middle of the night and sexually molested me.
And I didn't kill him. I didn't stop him. I mean,
I said no, but still there was elements of like
what was going on that I just I couldn't even compute. Yeah,
it was just like so big and scary.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
And you can't make sense of it.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Didn't make sense of it, so I buried it. And
then then I went back to lost this is what happened.
And then I went to Los Angeles and I was
freak out. I thought, this is not this is my
Hollywood experience. You don't want to do this. So I
went back. I got this manager, and that manager was
smart enough to start to put me out and audition,
(18:40):
audition me for the soap operas, and I got I
got one of the soap Operas offered me a role
and I was gonna take it. But my manager, who
I didn't tell what had happened, he contacted Zephyrelli's producers
and then they offered me the movie and they said
this Jonathan. We want Jonathan to go to the Royal
(19:01):
Academy at Dramatic Arts in London and trained for three
months prior to filming, which will take place for about
six months in Italy and Sicily. And you know, we
would think he has to have more of a proper dialect.
He mumbles a little bit. We think he's sensational in
other aspects, but he needs to work these these things speed.
(19:22):
And so I had this real strong dilemma. I'll never
forget this, Like I was like, do I go do
a soap opera? Where do I go do this movie?
And my manners like you have to go do the movie,
and I didn't know to say, hey, well this happened
yeah the last time. So what happened was I went
to lock, I went to London, I studied, I fell
in love with my co star. I clung on to
(19:44):
her so that I wouldn't have to deal with Zephyrrelli
ZEPHYRRELLI was pretty adamant throughout the whole filming process. He
was brutal to me, and he would drink and he
would you know, say stuff like you can't act and
stuff like that. You know, you can imagine at a
young age it was brutal. But he wasn't just brutled me.
It was a lot of people. He had this sexual
component that he kept prying on me, you know, trying
(20:05):
to get me to you know, what's come back in
my room.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
And yeah, he was trying to groom you for it
and get you ready for that.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, It's all good, Donathan. He was grooming me,
and he was he was Franko ZEPHYRRELLI. Man, he knew
film like nobody's business. And he taught me so much,
you know. But what happened. I didn't allow him to
be part of my my you know, I didn't let
him back in my bedroom. It was not I didn't
(20:33):
let him in the first time, and this time I
had power to say no. You know, I thought I
was gonna get fired every day. It was just like
but I mean, I didn't know any better. I just
kept trying to be like the good human being that
my parents taught me to be. And I got to
the end of the film and I knew I was
a very good actor. And Roy London was always on
the phnge talking to me, and I told Roy, this
(20:54):
guy's all over me, is like, you don't need to
do anything. You don't need to do anything, you don't want.
So that gave me a lot of power that yeah,
acting teacher would say that. So at the end of
the film, Franco basically says, you know, I want everyone
to go to positive whole cast at a positive the
most beautiful place in the world. And when they went there,
(21:16):
he said to me that dinner, I'm going to come
into your room and I was like, no, you're not, No,
it's not okay. And he came to my door, tried
to open the door, door was locked. I probably put
a chair up there. Yeah, he's not coming to my room,
and this time he's going to get hurt. But what
that did to him was it broke his heart or
(21:37):
it it made him not want to talk to me
ever again. So he he dubbed my voice in the film,
and so you use another actor and put their voice
over my voice, and for the whole film for the
whole film, huh. So I thought that was the end
of my acting career. The first thing I ever did,
and this whole experience, and I didn't think anyone would
(22:00):
ever believes, like, you know, the psychology behind what he did. Yeah,
I just was determined. After that, I got a great
agent and she she was great, My manager was great,
and they just worked really hard to get me more opportunities.
And then I won American Quiote and then I had
the great opportunity with Tom Hanks. So it was kind
(22:21):
of like I put it in the back and you know, Franco,
I tell you this, this is such a great story man.
He called me up and his producers called me up
when they had dinner with me, and I'm on the
cover of Vanity Fair and I'm like, what does he want?
Like inside me, I'm like, oh, what does this guy want?
Like he wants to sit down with me? Like does
(22:41):
he want to apologize? You know what? What what should
I do? Yeah? I said, Oh, though I'm not scared
of him, I can't do anything to me. So I
went and it was just me and Franco having dinner
and he said, I'm sorry what I did you one
of the loves of my life. And I was like, wow, hey, buddy, like,
(23:06):
where are you coming up with this stuff? And I
after I spoke out, I learned that Franco was molested
by a priest and he had done this to every
young actor and had this type of like compelling, you know,
pulling of art like he had. That was the relationship
(23:29):
he had with Wisconte and this priest. You know, throughout
the whole life, this priest was always point. Became his
friend and started to try to get him to make
a movie about Jesus, which he did. It was like
that you read this history, You're like, of course he
tortured Jonathan, That's exactly who he was. He was Wow. Yeah,
(23:55):
So so ask questions because I know that wasn't the
most articulate thing in the world, but I think that
we Oh, no.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It was, and it was very brave to share that. Again,
how did this trauma impact you down the road because
you didn't You didn't sort of deal with it in
the moment, which is what most people do, right.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
They don't deal with it in the moment. They kind
of hope to put back, but it comes up, right.
I mean, how does it manifest later in your life?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
You know, it caused me to try to mask a
lot of the pain that I had inside. I was
frightened of auditions. You could imagine. Yeah, it was psychology
behind me auditioning. It was just like and I built
this this world around it, and it was I've come
to realize it's shame. It's not that I was guilty
of anything that I was just I was this a
(24:46):
horrible human being inside. There's something really wrong with me,
and that I was just dyslexic. That had a big
thing to do with it. So I couldn't always do
things the way that people did them. I've grown to
know that that's probably the greatest gift that I could
have given as an ackor But in the time, it
was like a hell, the shame, and I just couldn't
I couldn't understand it was what that was. And I
(25:08):
would I would drink, I would use drugs and use sex. Yeah,
constantly numbing myself so that I wouldn't have this or
that I would feel really horrible about myself. And that
was my state of living.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, right right, And did you eventually get therapy where
you got to unpack us with a professional.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So after two divorces and finding the love
of my life and having a child, I was I
was willing and able to go inside and I did
something called brain spotting for the abuse and d m R. Yeah,
(25:53):
that's what it is. Yep. So I did that for
about six months of my life. After I spoke out.
So I was like, oh my god, what did I
just do? I better just as.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, some work. But was that liberating speaking out?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It was? But it in the world, like you know,
you expect like people like people would say good things
like that was very brave. But then other people would
be like, what a fuck an idiot? Why would you
say something like that? Now, now your competitors are just
could take your jobs. They're not going to hire you
any Macha roles, you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Really you heard that?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Oh man, I had I lost my best friend. He
just didn't want to have He didn't want to hear
any of it. Why do you think, Well, obviously it
was something mirrored in him that he didn't deal with.
And I mean, I'd love to unpack that for him,
but it's not my job. No, And I was you know,
the other thing is I was in my I'm sober,
so I I really started working the steps had great sponsors.
(26:50):
I had more than one sponsor because I moved here,
and they really helped unpack all of it.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, did you.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Hear from people? But when you spoke out? Did you
hear from people? Conversely? Who said that? Gave me courage
to speak out myself?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yes, I reach out. I had a preacher in he
in New York. The same thing happened with Zephyrrelli him. Yes,
I mean I he was like, verbatim, this happened to me,
exactly what you wrote. That happened to me. He did that.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Wow, I know that. You also spoke to.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Rose McGowan. Oh yeah, how did that happen? So me
and Rose very it's beautiful putting it all together. You like,
think of the right after I'd made the Zephyrelli movie,
I won the role of the Xavier Read and then
Rose came into the audition process and she won the
(27:53):
role of Amy Blue. So we were we had to
made this movie together. Yeah, and it was like her
first experience and I just came from this really thing.
Oh god, yeah, it was just like but you know
what I've always just loved her so much. She was
so brave, and I thought she was very good at
what she did, and she did very She became very
popular after that, very successful, and did very well as
(28:14):
an actress. And when she spoke out about Harvey or Twitter,
you know, I was a Twitter. Yeah, I just went
what And then she described what had happened. And that's
really I remember saying to my wife, like that happened
to me. Yeah, same thing that what she was expressing
(28:37):
in a very articulate and you know a deeper level
of like understanding psychology. And I reached out to her
and she was right there with me. She said, well,
you know, what do you need? Tell me some suggestions.
And I helped, you know, we helped each other throughout
the whole experience. And yeah, very tight. She is my sister.
(28:58):
She's a warrior. You gotta get her on your show, right.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Well, I love her, and you're right, I do.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But I covered the Me Too movement a lot at CNN.
I covered it a lot, and of course I had
had my own stories. But I remember walking through CNN
through the old bureau building in New York, and I
saw her in a green room and I Remember I
looked at her, she looked at me.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
There was this knowing glance. I broke down in tears.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I gave her a hug and I just said thank
you for saying what you said and doing what you've done.
And then after that I told my stories because I
just felt I had gotten power through us Moses from her,
because she's like that, she's her. Her feeling of empowerment
is infectious. When you're around it, you just want to
(29:48):
be as brave as she is.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's what happened, right, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Should reach out to her.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Didn't a similar thing happen to Brendan Fraser and Terry
Crews other men have come out.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
You know, there's a part of me when that because
it destroyed my life so much and it was such
a big secret that when Terry, you know, the more
I have thought about what happened to Terry and what
happened to Brendan in public and then having the vot
like the being courageous and saying you can't do that
(30:25):
in public, right, they didn't have all this uh you know,
torture like like like what Baby Reindeer went through. Then
you see that, Yeah, he really broke that down to incredible,
Like he didn't have that, They didn't have these inner
demons that destroyed their lives. They had this thing that
they shared with and it was really strong for everyone
who had gone through it. Yeah, Terry was so supportive
(30:48):
of me. It's such a big way. You know. He
kept telling me to try to get louder. You get loud.
I can't get loud.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
No, we can't all get as loud as to right.
That's great though.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
So I was. I was a big part of that
me Too movement. I was always in those meetings with
SAG I get part of it. I helped organize this
big committee with all these big powerhouse Terry being one
and trying to you know, trying to make rules that
would empower actors.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Streen Actors Guild, and that's basically what it was, is
that you're allowed to speak up. Yeah, you know what,
the more I thought about it, that's that's it. Because
if they they silence you, and they keep you silenced
a predator, you're you're in trouble. But if you're aboud
to speak out, careful what they do, it'll be cautious
(31:40):
to what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, I'm a little I think Me Too was really
impactful and important, but I don't think it's done.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And I know in my business ie things have gotten
a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
But what still happens is if you talk, if you
speak out about someone, you're generally just not hired again.
And that's the that's the rub for us. Because Me
Too led a lot of people in my business to
speak out, a lot of them never got hired again.
And so we still have to make the choice do
(32:15):
I speak out or do I want to keep my job?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
And that sucks. That's the sucky part in my business.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
That's what we JAGU do and SAG is empowered person
go this happened. It doesn't mean that we need to
eliminate this individual. Yeah, we just need to regulate this individual,
but to make sure that that whatever that they did
to me never happens again. You know. So if someone
if someone had done that with Franco, yeah, I wouldn't
(32:42):
have been abused, right right, So that's the thing you
read the way out, and then you can't be alone
in that. You need support in that, right, Yes, you
don't lose your job. That's the tricky rub right there.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It is tricky, but thank you for sharing that the
first time and again with me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah. I think we shared some stuff that I've been
wanting to talk about, so I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Oh I'm glad. Then I'm glad. Well we're not done.
Let's move on to some better things. Winona Ryder, Jessica Lang,
Gwyneth Paltrow, Live Tyler. You've worked with some very talented women.
Who's your favorite female acting partner Jessica Lang.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, why, well, she taught me everything I needed to know.
Oh my god, she was just like she would tell
me just straight up. They said I was doing wrong? Really,
Oh yeah, she is brilliant and she really she I
don't even know how she does that with everyone, but
she did it with me. She was my mother in it,
so that's great.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
What was the story with Ellen DeGeneres. You would go
to public events with her?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
What was that is crazy?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, I mean my manager came to me one day
and said, Ellen has a TV show, wasn't her talk show?
And she's afraid that you know too, for the public
to think that she's gay, and she'd like for you
to be her date. And I was like, and I
loved her. She was awesome Jesus, but.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
You didn't know her or you didn't know her.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
We were with the same manager, so I was always
around her and we always got along. So well, okay,
well I would take her on the red carpet and
hold her hand and never forget the days he kissed
me on the bread and yeah, it was right around
the time with the whole Zephyr Eli thing. I always
wanted to tell Ellen when I happened.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
You never got to tell Ellen.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Never got to tell Alan. I would have liked to
share that with her because I was you can imagine
then I was hiding her see her shame right, Yeah,
in my shame. I didn't know what it was. I
really needed to talk to someone about it. Yeah. Well
she was a great person, I had to and your
most interesting thing of all that, and then watching her
(35:03):
become very successful after and so she came out. She
was rich, she was very successful. You know, she was
in great relationships. She was healthy in her relationships to
a degree, but like it seemed like she had everything,
but what she really didn't have was love, love for herself.
(35:26):
So when she when Anne Hash and her started dating
and I don't know if this exactly happened. I'm pretty
certain this Anne was basically like, you you're with me,
You're with me. The old world needs to know, right like,
you're not gonna go out with him, here with me.
(35:47):
And I think that was kind of the way it happened.
And it made her really like look at herself a
different way. And then they broke up. And then it
broke up. She went into a very dark period whereas
never got this. I hardly ever saw her after that.
And then she came out with the talk show and
she became this beautiful human being that people didn't realize,
(36:09):
you know, she was gay anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They just thought you didn't care.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, they didn't care, which was really good for us.
Yeah as a society.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Of course, are you still friendly?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
When I moved I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, I tried
really hard to reach out to her so that if
it was the last time I would ever see her,
that I could say goodbye to her. And I wasn't
able to do that. We're gonna have dinner, and then
it fell apart and then she's you know, she's retreated
wherever she is now. Well, hopefully you get that chance
(36:44):
to talk. I did. I had a beautiful moment. It
was in the It was in the garage at Soho
and she pulled up in her Porsche. She goes, Jonathan,
I was with my little boy and I was like
he ended like yeah, Porsia like was. I was like, hi,
poor John, Jonathan, oh man, you know friends with Ellen
(37:06):
for such a long time, and this wait, I said,
this is my little miracle, you know, this is my own.
She was so sweet. Then she had had a new idea.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
She was yeah, right, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Though, Maybe that was the closure that I needed.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Maybe, yeah, yeah, oh that's great. Up next, what's the
story behind the leather coat? Guy? More with Jonathan Check
Tell me about Blue Ridge.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So, Blue Ridge is a beautiful series. It's it's a
series that I can watch it with my eleven year
old son and my eighty eight five year old father
and everyone's going to have to do time watching it,
and you can watch it. My wife can watch it
because there's a lot of romance in it as well. Okay,
but the beautiful thing about Blue Ridge is it came
(38:01):
to me after I left Hollywood. I didn't want to
have anything to do with the process of Hollywood anymore,
and I knew it wasn't working for me. And I
called up five of my friends, Tom Hanks being one
and one, Nicholas Gonzalez, and Nick said, you have got
to meet this producer named Gary Wheeler and I'll hook
(38:25):
you guys up. And Gary called me up and he said, Jonathan,
I had this film about a guy who leaves California
and moved to a small town to be with his family. Yeah.
I was like, yeah, buddy, Yeah, thank you. I don't
know if that's a god smack or what, but then
that's pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
And then we went and shot the movie and then
COVID hit and Gary called me one around Christmas. He
was like, they want to turn this into a series.
I'm like, well, they wanted me to be in it.
He was like, yeah, yeah, a big idea. I was like,
why won't you do this right away a few years ago? Hey?
And you know what? They wrote six beautiful scripts and
(39:07):
the first season's coming out. It came out on ISP Yeah,
but now it's coming out of Amazon Prime. Okay, good
support to get to see it. People love it. It's
the kind of reminds me of old school TV that
I used to grow up on, where the whole family
would sit down and watch it.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, right, for me, that was murder.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
She wrote, Yeah, this is very similar.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I love that. You know.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
She was a writer like me and living in New
England where I grew up, and I.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Was just like, oh, I want to be Jessica Fletcher.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
But we would all gather to watch it, and there's
not a lot of that left anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yes, yeah, then we brought that back.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Why did you want to leave Hollywood?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Well, I realized like that even though audition audition process
had created such shame in me, and I need a
distance from it. I knew just I couldn't, I couldn't
continue down that road and I needed to maintain my sobriety,
and I didn't want to cause any harm in my family,
and I just I just knew it was the right thing.
(40:05):
I surrendered to something much more powerful than I had
ever experienced before. And I'm completely surrendered and knew that
I just didn't need to be part of that world anymore.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
When you put yourself first, I'll speak from my experience,
not yours.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You know, I had like a nervous breakdown a few
years ago and a lot of it had to do
with what I do for a living, and my fear
was okay, well, the obvious thing to do is stop
doing what I do.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
But who am I?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Then?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Will I still get work? Will I still get to
do stuff?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
If I take myself out of the sort of the
firing line that I've lived in for a very long
time doing news in politics, what then? But I haven't
completely left that world, but I've set a lot of
boundaries and I've changed sort of the way that I
work within that space.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
And when you put yourself first, it is so scary
at first, but for me it's been validated again and
again and again over time. Have you felt that way.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yes, very much so. So you know you may not
get the call that you're used to getting. Better call. Yes,
And if we live in fear, it doesn't happen. We
don't allow ourselves. Those are too scared. But when we
live in we go into the unknown, and we have
courage in it, things come to us. Being brave is rewarded.
(41:32):
So good for you. It's a tough world that you
live in. I don't watch the news.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I'm jealous.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
We fund ourself on the radio. I'm like, man, I
don't know what they're I don't know what they're selling,
but I'm I'm not interested. I'm not interested.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
It is tough. But well, that's that's great advice and
I'm glad we shared those stories. Uh okay.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Next we're going to lighten up with a lightning round.
And the first part is a bit of a quiz.
It's but it's a quiz about you. Okay, let's say
if I know me, Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
What is the name? You'll know this? This is easy.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
What is the name of the beach band that the
Wonders play in that thing?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You do Captain Geech and the Shrimp Shack Shooters?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Correct? Okay, But the second part is trickier. What is
Captain Geach and the Shrimp Shack Shooters named after?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Uh? Tom was filming Bulbus Shrimp farst Gum, Yes, and
he would he kept driving by this. He told me this.
Here's I kept driving by this shrimp Shack. I think
it was like old dilapidated thing, and that's how it
came up with the name.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yes, it's two restaurants. He kept driving by Captain Geeches
and the Shrimp Shack, and so he combined them.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
So he was writing while he was making Uh.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yep, amazing in the sweetest thing. What are your only
lines as leather coat guy?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Oh? I know, I am, but what do you something
like that, something like that, Yeah, what's up with you?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
With you nothing? What's up with you? Nothing? What's up
with you?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You know? The story behind that I was I was
watching Christina perform that day during camera and they said, Jonathan,
will you go in the scene.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Oh, you were just on sets as Christina's husband try
to pick her.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Up, and so look, thank you for my beer. And Christina,
you know, she's such a genius. She just comes up
with this little brief that we started to do back
and forth.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Did you come in with the leather jacket on or
did they put the leather coat on you?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
They put me through wardrobe. They said, go to wardrobe
and get because I think I had a baseball cap and.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
You didn't look like you were going clubbing.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, and so yeah, the leather coat guy. And then
they asked me to continue the part. But I I
was doing this film that I had a flat to Morocco. Well,
it was a great little part.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
And that's a really funny, funny movie. Okay, the quizzes well, no,
the quiz is not over. What was your high school
mascot ram?
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, you got it. Okay, the quiz is over. You
have two kids? What kind of dad are you?
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Wow? It's deep. I just try to be as present
as I can. Yeah, and you know, my sobriety, it's
one thing about I will always chirp about my being sober.
It is like I'm present with my children. I mean,
I'm there. If I was drinking, if I had party
(44:41):
on my brain, or if I wanted to go do
certain things to just kind of escape and I'd be
a little boy, I wouldn't be present for them as
much as so. I'm really proud of myself for getting sober.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Present is everything. Yeah, okay. What's the best thing you
make for your kids in terms of food?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Oh? Wow, I make them bagels and we you know,
they get to choose their toppings.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Oh that's fun. That's great. Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
And chicken. They love chicken because I eat chicken five
times a day.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, okay, that's good. What's your favorite Christmas movie?
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Die Hard?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
That is legit a Christmas movie? And I don't blame you.
That's great. It's a great film.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
It all want to be in a Christmas movie.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
We should have not done a Christmas movie.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Have they ever made one about like a newscaster who
finds love? Oh?
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Like a Hallmark movie? Yeah, oh, we should do that.
That would be really fun. I'll write it. You or
you're in it.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
All right, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I love that has to be in a small town.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
She's writer for a small town newspaper, or maybe she
leaves the big city for a small town.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Exactly. That's what you have to it's got They got
their little equation down.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Oh it's a formula.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Oh but you'd be so great in that. Okay, we'll
do that. Okay.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Final question, and it's very important to me. When is
iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Mm hmm. It's begins in July. When does it go
to September?
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Okay, that's incorrect.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
It would be July to July year round, is the
correct answer. That's just because I'm from Boston and there's
Dunkin Donuts in my blood.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I did go to Cornell Wow, great school.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Oh yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
We had a lot of laxers from from Maryland.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
It was a big, big feeder school from Maryland, Lacrosse exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Well, Jonathan checked.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
This was fun and insightful and important and I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, thank you for It's important to talk about these
things for our mental out and yes, and to do
it in a way that people can hear it. You know,
I've done so much work of myself, so I'm not
going to get buried into these, you know, shameful episodes
when I speak of it. And I appreciate you not
being too triggered to where we couldn't have a resourceful
(47:17):
conversation in which we did. So.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Thanks same to you, and look, no shame, all gain
in talking about it, all gain.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Next week on Off the Cup, I talked to a
comic writer, actress all the things, Judy Gold.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
We're the truth tellers. We're not afraid to tell the
truth right right and call people out and say you're
you're Are we allowed to curse on this?
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel
Hill and Native Land pod For Off the Cup, I
am your host, se cup editing and sound designed by
Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se cop Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts.
(48:09):
Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,
When I did speak out, it was important to me
because I knew that that was a thing that was
holding me back from living my life to the fullest.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
You know, I talk a lot on this podcast about
mental health, and that's for you, that's for listeners primarily.
I believe firmly that the more we talk about mental health,
the easier it is to talk about mental health. And
that's the point for me this pod. While it's not
a mental health podcast per se, it's an interview show
(00:34):
where we create a space for mental health to come
up naturally because that's.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
What I want.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I wanted to come up naturally in conversation and not
be something where like can I bring this up?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Can I talk about this?
Speaker 2 (00:46):
And so I love giving my guests and my listeners
those opportunities, but listen, I'll be very clear.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
It is also for me. My life in the.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
News is taxing. The news is triggering for me, which
is really convenient. It's my job and it can feel
impossible to get a break from it because the news,
the news will bombard you. I feel like it's like
Isla Fisher in Wedding crashers. She's like, I'll find you. Seriously,
(01:16):
that is how it feels sometimes. So this pod Off
the Cup is truly a gift to me as well.
I love it so much. Getting to talk to interesting
people about their lives, about their challenges, share funny stories.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
It is awesome.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
So thank you for tuning in, And today I have
one of those awesome, interesting, talented, brave guests. He's an
actor and screenwriter with a very long career in television
and film, from How to Make an American Quilt to
That Thing You Do Houdiniteray Donovan, Legends of Tomorrow to
the series Blue Ridge.
Speaker 3 (01:49):
Now it's Jonathan Shack. Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Well, thank you for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Thank you for doing this. I'm really excited for this
conversation well.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
After that lead, and I'm very very curious to see
if I can't be of service to you.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
You're gonna be, You're gonna be.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I just did one yesterday, and I'm reminded of this
all the time. When you just talk about mental health
sort of like naturally and normally things come up. And
I learned something new about my own mental health from
someone else yesterday, just in conversation. So when you open
this door, magical things can happen. So we'll get into it.
(02:25):
We will get there. But first, I love that thing
you do so much. I love it so much. It
is a perfect movie. You've done so much. But is
that what most people would know you from?
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Absolutely? Yeah, you think.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Was it a big turning point for you in your career?
Speaker 1 (02:41):
You know, at the time it was not that big
of a deal. It didn't wasn't number one at the
box office. People love the movie over time. It's still
that movie that just resonates with people and they watch
it all over and over again.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
Yes, yes, we do, and every single day.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
So one stops me and tells me how much I
love the movie. Go, can I take a picture with you?
I love Jimmy and that thing you do well.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
I use very frequently in my text conversations the.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Meme of I quit, I quit, I quit.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
Yeah, I use it all the time because, like when
I'm done with something, it's just the perfect meme to send.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Did you when you got that role? Did you sing
or play an instrument?
Speaker 1 (03:23):
No? I didn't. When I met with when I auditioned
for Tom, he told me after the auditions like, you know,
I love your acting, That's all I care about. But
we're going to teach you how to play the guitar
and sing. But we already have somebody for the voice
for the vocals. Yes.
Speaker 3 (03:42):
Did Steve Zon know how to play guitar.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Yeah, he's very He was a very good guitar player.
He picked a lot and yeah to play. He was
in a band. He was like eighteen years old slapping
the bass. Yeah. Ever, Scott had to learn from scratch, had.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
To learn Tom had to learn the drum.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Yeah, uh huh.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
But that must have been so fun. Was it like
band camp?
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Exactly? That's exactly with great teachers. One thing, Gary Getsman,
who he worked. He made a lot of documentaries on
music and he was in the music industry. He worked
with Jonathan Demi.
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
So he was instrumental in getting us to be one
point with our chords. He said, I want I'm gonna
I'm going to cut to whatever is right, so if
you're on the right chord, it'll be in the movie.
So they would we would do takes after takes, make
sure everyone was playing the song and if you heard it,
it would get by. This wasn't good enough.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
I think it's funny because the song plays a lot.
That thing you do plays a lot during the movie,
but when you're in the movie, you don't feel bored
by it because it builds.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
It's almost like Bolero, you know, it builds over the
course of You get a snippet, then it it gets
a little better, then it gets more refined, and by
the end you're seeing the real version and you're.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Like, oh, good, yeah, you've I mean not everyone gets that,
but directors have talked to me about like movies that
they made where they were like, you know, I looked,
I studied that thing you do because of that very thing,
and the very beginning it's very little, it's rough, and
then you get a little bit better, you get a
little bit better, and it gets more refined. And they
never played the you know one section too many times.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Yeah, it's it's really clever the way it un folds
over the course of the movie.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
How did the role come to you? How did you
get that audition?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I had a great agent, her name was Eileen Feldman,
and I had done American Quilt, So yeah, it was
a torture's audition process and I won that role. So
the casting director knew me from that and they were
pretty high on me. But that audition, there is a
line of people.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Like who else that people would know was up for
that role.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I remember seeing anyone that I knew at the time,
but it was everybody, everybody, all of them.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Yep, your character Jimmy was such a jerk, but also
part of me really identified with him, like these guys
should take it as seriously as Jimmy is taking it.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Do you feel like James was misunderstood?
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Absolutely?
Speaker 3 (06:22):
Yeah, he did.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
What a great chance in life, you know, had this
great opportunity and we'll let it go and this one's.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Going to Vegas and this one's joining the Marines.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
He's serious about the music. And you know, over time,
I've had Rascal Flats, I've had Busfalo's Springfield like they
were like we have. I was Jimmy, you know, in
the band, and it's amazing understood like I was. I
didn't mean to be a jerk, but I was so
into our work and if I wasn't like that, we
would never have been successful.
Speaker 3 (06:52):
Yes, alone in his principles for a reason.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
You were alone in your principles because you believed in
your talent. You knew you had to make more music,
and these guys kind of just wanted to have fun,
you know.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Billy Zabkov got to look at his character differently in
Cobra Kai, and I talked to the guys that made
Cobra Kai about, you know, doing the same thing with
Jimmy because he's so misunderstood. It's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
Oh my god, I love that. You know, in the movie,
a lot of the big crowds looked to me like, Cgi, Yeah,
did you ever play in front of a real big audience? Yes,
you did? Which one was that? Was that? In come
with the scene with Kevin Pollock when Steve was.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Singing come on Pretty Babe.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Oh yeah, Oh so that was in front of a
real audience and it was electric.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
We had so much fun that day. It was a magical.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Oh that's amazing.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
What they would do is like for the big fair scene,
they would have all these extras for this one section,
and then they move all the extras to this section.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
And then they just put it together.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, that's amazing, Right, that's how they used to do it.
And you know all this stuff with Ai, I'm like, man,
I would just put like fake people throughout the whole
thing and make it a lot easier, right.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, ah, that's amazing. In twenty twenty one, Eerie PA
hosted a Wonders Night where you and Tom and Steve
Zon reunited. How fun was that?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
It was magic? I mean we had a line going
around the stadium that people had brought, you know, merchandise
from that thing you do for us to sign. And
everyone loved the movie, Like there are fans in the movie,
and people flew from California, you know, someone came from Alabama.
It was like it was just a and there were
(08:38):
very little press, but we it was so much fun.
Speaker 2 (08:43):
I'm sure not every movie gets a chance to like reunite.
I mean without a sequel, you guys, you guys have
that fan base that just wants to keep reconnecting with it.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
And it's it's interesting because it played on television. I
don't know exactly what happened. It wasn't a box office
success as that. And Tom has been very vocal about
the critics.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Yeah, he has repeat what he said, Yeah, it's dirty,
and I'm like, go Tom, Yeah, and they were, you know,
there no one like embraced him because he was just
so successful at the time, and they didn't really see
the magic in it at the time.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
And over and Gary gets men and Tom. Gary just
looked at his partner and I was like, I'm going
to show the Worldless movie over and over and over
again so they can see the magic that was made.
And I think new audiences, younger audience have got to
really experience it. So many people come to me like,
I'm a musician, they say, and it's because of that
(09:42):
thing you do. Stop so many I can't even count on,
you know, so many people.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
That must be so fulfilling and rewarding.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Well, I'm not a musician, but I'm just glad that
they pursued their dreams.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Yeah, but that's incredible.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Just to be an inspiration to someone that's that's awesome.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Well, the movie is perfect. It is magic, And I
want to talk about the rest of your career. But first,
what kind of kid were you?
Speaker 1 (10:05):
I was a little guy, always smaller than everybody, always
trying to compensate for my size. Okay, okay, I see
they would say, very feisty.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
Okay, were you funny? Were you did you were you
looking for attention?
Speaker 3 (10:22):
Were you performative?
Speaker 1 (10:24):
I wasn't performative, that's for sure. Okay, I was an artist.
I loved drawing and painting.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Okay, were you quiet?
Speaker 1 (10:31):
They would say. I was quiet until I got into
like sports or something like that, and it wasn't.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
What sports did you get into?
Speaker 1 (10:39):
Well, I got cut from every team I've ever had,
all the sports that I loved. They wouldn't let me
play football because I was only ninety eight pounds in
high school. Yeah, but I played baseball. They cut me
in baseball because it was too tiny. And then I started.
I was playing lacrosse ever since I was young, and
so I really started playing more lacrosse and I made
the lacrosse team and then it became really good lacrosse. Okay, wrestled.
(11:00):
I was a ninety pound wrestler.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
This was Edgewood High School.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
Yeah, Edgewood High School? Was it so that? No, I'm
just kidding.
Speaker 3 (11:08):
I think I found this wow, And I found this.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Oh my goodness, see a little guy all lips At
the time.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I'm holding up Jonathan's high school yearbook and yearbook picture
for people who don't know, because that's what.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
I like to do.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
I like to make people really uncomfortable about how much
I know about them.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Good job.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Yeah, I feel like lacrosse was mandatory in Maryland.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
Yeah, it pretty much was. And you know, my son
is now playing lacrosse here in Tennessee. That's fun. I
never thought he would play lacrosse, especially See. But we're
having so much fun.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Oh that's great.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Your dad was a cop, yeah, former city cop.
Speaker 3 (11:47):
Was he strict?
Speaker 1 (11:49):
Yeah, it was brutal. It's tough, tough cop, great human being,
tough cop.
Speaker 3 (11:54):
Were you allowed to do stuff that your friends were
allowed to do?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
I probably wouldn't do them because those just respectful of
my father. What he did, I didn't get in much trouble. Yeah.
So yeah, older than I started the ruining the bell.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
Correct me if I'm wrong. You seem to be wearing
a bow tie in this picture.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
I know. I was just thinking the same thing, like
where did we get bow ties? Like? What was that
the prom? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Bow ties? This is the eighties, not the fifties. I
want people to know you're not that old. So when
do you decide you want to be an actor?
Speaker 1 (12:31):
That's when my rebellions started to happen. My father had
My mom and my dad broke up when I was
a junior and I think that when that happened, it
was a tough time for me, and I just saw
the world differently, like it just kind of broke everything,
and I was able to say, you know what, what
(12:53):
do I want to do with my life. I'm not
going to do what everyone else is telling me I
should do because it's just not fitting me. And I
started to try different things. I listened to what was available,
and then I kept thinking I wanted the always wanted
the dance, right. I thought I could be a dancer.
(13:14):
My father got me this an extra role on the
set of Hairspray in downtown Baltimore, and I too scared
and I didn't show up. So that holds onto me
like I didn't do and I kept thinking, I really
wanted to be a strange Usually people take drama classes
in high school. It wasn't me logical. I didn't do
(13:35):
it back then. I better do it now. And I
took one class at the University of Maryland, Baltimore County.
The teacher was Sam mc ready, and I just thought,
you know what, I can actually do this. I remember
watching Tom Cruise in a movie Top Done. I could
do that.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
Uh huh, I mean it's so out.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Of the out of the world that I lived in.
But I just I just thought, and I could do
that I'm supposed to do. And there's this Richard Mark song.
If you remember this song, it's not like in the
eighties wherever you go whatever.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
You right here waiting for you. Yes, yeah, of course
I know it.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
And I know it's a romantic song. But all I
kept hearing is I have to go somewhere. I have
to be somewhere, I have to do something. I have
a purpose.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
Oh have you told Richard Marks that story?
Speaker 1 (14:22):
I told him at He's like, that's amazing, Jonathan, You're
not the first person to say that to me.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
But I know Richard, he's a friend of mine. I
have to ask him about it. That's amazing.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Is that Neat? I thought that was so that's great.
You sit across with the guy that app you, you know,
break out of the small town.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
Yes, so then you go and you study with Roy London.
Speaker 1 (14:47):
Oh yeah, what was that like? Well, you know, I
think that this part of my life is I've really
been looking at that part of my life. And Brad
Pittman has been talking about, or at least he's mentioned
something during his press conference about Roy where they asked
him and it's all over the news in my world,
(15:07):
and he've had the same experience that I did. That
this man said, you want to be an actor, you
need to know who you are and you need to,
you know, be open to try new things. And that
basically taught life lessons. And those life lessons just got
(15:28):
me out of my shell. Yeah, we changed my mind.
It was more than acting. Yeah, it was more than acting. Yeah.
Really like this small little group of really courageous human beings.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
After the break, I talked to Jonathan Shack about one
of the darkest times of his professional and personal life. Well,
you get a big break with the period drama Sparrow,
(16:03):
a Zephyrelli film. This should have been a wonderful experience
for a young actor, but it was actually a nightmare.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
I was a compliet nightmare for you.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
And you wrote a very brave and compelling piece many
years later for People magazine about what happened during that shoot.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
I'm wondering if you want to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
So, you know, I learned a lot since I spoke out.
But when I did speak out, it was it was
important to me because I knew that that was a
thing that was holding me back from living my life
to the fullest and experiencing life. I was kind of
always sheltering myself or abusing myself in certain ways because
(16:44):
of this incident, because of this trauma, because of this
traumaea and what happened. I'd learned this late. I spoke
out about it, and I couldn't figure out when it happened.
I mean, I was twenty one, twenty two years old,
and you know, it just was something I just didn't
want to deal with. I was not gonna share with anybody,
(17:05):
just gonna I won't interfere with my life.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
What is this because let me just stop you. Is
that because you didn't want it to like define you?
Or is it because you were ashamed?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Well, shame took over, you know. There's So what happened
was during the night after the audition, the screen test,
he flew me from Los Angeles, his producers and his
whole team. So me and my roommate, of all the
thousand people that he auditioned, me and my roommate went
(17:37):
out there. And this is how I learned a lot
because I talked to my roommate about it, and I
wouldn't have got that kind of information if I hadn't
spoke to him, because he was he's an acting teacher,
and he was literally like, John, did this happened? Yeah,
you did this to me and that's not you. So
you were triggered by something that happened. And I was like, man,
this is exactly what happened. He came into my hotel
(17:58):
room in the middle of the night and sexually molested me.
And I didn't kill him. I didn't stop him. I mean,
I said no, but still there was elements of like
what was going on that I just I couldn't even compute. Yeah,
it was just like so big and scary.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
And you can't make sense of it.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Didn't make sense of it, so I buried it. And
then then I went back to lost this is what happened.
And then I went to Los Angeles and I was
freak out. I thought, this is not this is my
Hollywood experience. You don't want to do this. So I
went back. I got this manager, and that manager was
smart enough to start to put me out and audition,
(18:40):
audition me for the soap operas, and I got I
got one of the soap Operas offered me a role
and I was gonna take it. But my manager, who
I didn't tell what had happened, he contacted Zephyrelli's producers
and then they offered me the movie and they said
this Jonathan. We want Jonathan to go to the Royal
(19:01):
Academy at Dramatic Arts in London and trained for three
months prior to filming, which will take place for about
six months in Italy and Sicily. And you know, we
would think he has to have more of a proper dialect.
He mumbles a little bit. We think he's sensational in
other aspects, but he needs to work these these things speed.
(19:22):
And so I had this real strong dilemma. I'll never
forget this, Like I was like, do I go do
a soap opera? Where do I go do this movie?
And my manners like you have to go do the movie,
and I didn't know to say, hey, well this happened
yeah the last time. So what happened was I went
to lock, I went to London, I studied, I fell
in love with my co star. I clung on to
(19:44):
her so that I wouldn't have to deal with Zephyrrelli
ZEPHYRRELLI was pretty adamant throughout the whole filming process. He
was brutal to me, and he would drink and he
would you know, say stuff like you can't act and
stuff like that. You know, you can imagine at a
young age it was brutal. But he wasn't just brutled me.
It was a lot of people. He had this sexual
component that he kept prying on me, you know, trying
(20:05):
to get me to you know, what's come back in
my room.
Speaker 3 (20:10):
And yeah, he was trying to groom you for it
and get you ready for that.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
You know, It's all good, Donathan. He was grooming me,
and he was he was Franko ZEPHYRRELLI. Man, he knew
film like nobody's business. And he taught me so much,
you know. But what happened. I didn't allow him to
be part of my my you know, I didn't let
him back in my bedroom. It was not I didn't
(20:33):
let him in the first time, and this time I
had power to say no. You know, I thought I
was gonna get fired every day. It was just like
but I mean, I didn't know any better. I just
kept trying to be like the good human being that
my parents taught me to be. And I got to
the end of the film and I knew I was
a very good actor. And Roy London was always on
the phnge talking to me, and I told Roy, this
(20:54):
guy's all over me, is like, you don't need to
do anything. You don't need to do anything, you don't want.
So that gave me a lot of power that yeah,
acting teacher would say that. So at the end of
the film, Franco basically says, you know, I want everyone
to go to positive whole cast at a positive the
most beautiful place in the world. And when they went there,
(21:16):
he said to me that dinner, I'm going to come
into your room and I was like, no, you're not, No,
it's not okay. And he came to my door, tried
to open the door, door was locked. I probably put
a chair up there. Yeah, he's not coming to my room,
and this time he's going to get hurt. But what
that did to him was it broke his heart or
(21:37):
it it made him not want to talk to me
ever again. So he he dubbed my voice in the film,
and so you use another actor and put their voice
over my voice, and for the whole film for the
whole film, huh. So I thought that was the end
of my acting career. The first thing I ever did,
and this whole experience, and I didn't think anyone would
(22:00):
ever believes, like, you know, the psychology behind what he did. Yeah,
I just was determined. After that, I got a great
agent and she she was great, My manager was great,
and they just worked really hard to get me more opportunities.
And then I won American Quiote and then I had
the great opportunity with Tom Hanks. So it was kind
(22:21):
of like I put it in the back and you know, Franco,
I tell you this, this is such a great story man.
He called me up and his producers called me up
when they had dinner with me, and I'm on the
cover of Vanity Fair and I'm like, what does he want?
Like inside me, I'm like, oh, what does this guy want?
Like he wants to sit down with me? Like does
(22:41):
he want to apologize? You know what? What what should
I do? Yeah? I said, Oh, though I'm not scared
of him, I can't do anything to me. So I
went and it was just me and Franco having dinner
and he said, I'm sorry what I did you one
of the loves of my life. And I was like, wow, hey, buddy, like,
(23:06):
where are you coming up with this stuff? And I
after I spoke out, I learned that Franco was molested
by a priest and he had done this to every
young actor and had this type of like compelling, you know,
pulling of art like he had. That was the relationship
(23:29):
he had with Wisconte and this priest. You know, throughout
the whole life, this priest was always point. Became his
friend and started to try to get him to make
a movie about Jesus, which he did. It was like
that you read this history, You're like, of course he
tortured Jonathan, That's exactly who he was. He was Wow. Yeah,
(23:55):
So so ask questions because I know that wasn't the
most articulate thing in the world, but I think that
we Oh, no.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It was, and it was very brave to share that. Again,
how did this trauma impact you down the road because
you didn't You didn't sort of deal with it in
the moment, which is what most people do, right.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
They don't deal with it in the moment. They kind
of hope to put back, but it comes up, right.
I mean, how does it manifest later in your life?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
You know, it caused me to try to mask a
lot of the pain that I had inside. I was
frightened of auditions. You could imagine. Yeah, it was psychology
behind me auditioning. It was just like and I built
this this world around it, and it was I've come
to realize it's shame. It's not that I was guilty
of anything that I was just I was this a
(24:46):
horrible human being inside. There's something really wrong with me,
and that I was just dyslexic. That had a big
thing to do with it. So I couldn't always do
things the way that people did them. I've grown to
know that that's probably the greatest gift that I could
have given as an ackor But in the time, it
was like a hell, the shame, and I just couldn't
I couldn't understand it was what that was. And I
(25:08):
would I would drink, I would use drugs and use sex. Yeah,
constantly numbing myself so that I wouldn't have this or
that I would feel really horrible about myself. And that
was my state of living.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, right right, And did you eventually get therapy where
you got to unpack us with a professional.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So after two divorces and finding the love
of my life and having a child, I was I
was willing and able to go inside and I did
something called brain spotting for the abuse and d m R. Yeah,
(25:53):
that's what it is. Yep. So I did that for
about six months of my life. After I spoke out.
So I was like, oh my god, what did I
just do? I better just as.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, some work. But was that liberating speaking out?
Speaker 1 (26:06):
It was? But it in the world, like you know,
you expect like people like people would say good things
like that was very brave. But then other people would
be like, what a fuck an idiot? Why would you
say something like that? Now, now your competitors are just
could take your jobs. They're not going to hire you
any Macha roles, you know that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
Really you heard that?
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Oh man, I had I lost my best friend. He
just didn't want to have He didn't want to hear
any of it. Why do you think, Well, obviously it
was something mirrored in him that he didn't deal with.
And I mean, I'd love to unpack that for him,
but it's not my job. No, And I was you know,
the other thing is I was in my I'm sober,
so I I really started working the steps had great sponsors.
(26:50):
I had more than one sponsor because I moved here,
and they really helped unpack all of it.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
Yeah, did you.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Hear from people? But when you spoke out? Did you
hear from people? Conversely? Who said that? Gave me courage
to speak out myself?
Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yes, I reach out. I had a preacher in he
in New York. The same thing happened with Zephyrrelli him. Yes,
I mean I he was like, verbatim, this happened to me,
exactly what you wrote. That happened to me. He did that.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
Wow, I know that. You also spoke to.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Rose McGowan. Oh yeah, how did that happen? So me
and Rose very it's beautiful putting it all together. You like,
think of the right after I'd made the Zephyrelli movie,
I won the role of the Xavier Read and then
Rose came into the audition process and she won the
(27:53):
role of Amy Blue. So we were we had to
made this movie together. Yeah, and it was like her
first experience and I just came from this really thing.
Oh god, yeah, it was just like but you know
what I've always just loved her so much. She was
so brave, and I thought she was very good at
what she did, and she did very She became very
popular after that, very successful, and did very well as
(28:14):
an actress. And when she spoke out about Harvey or Twitter,
you know, I was a Twitter. Yeah, I just went
what And then she described what had happened. And that's
really I remember saying to my wife, like that happened
to me. Yeah, same thing that what she was expressing
(28:37):
in a very articulate and you know a deeper level
of like understanding psychology. And I reached out to her
and she was right there with me. She said, well,
you know, what do you need? Tell me some suggestions.
And I helped, you know, we helped each other throughout
the whole experience. And yeah, very tight. She is my sister.
(28:58):
She's a warrior. You gotta get her on your show, right.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
Well, I love her, and you're right, I do.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
But I covered the Me Too movement a lot at CNN.
I covered it a lot, and of course I had
had my own stories. But I remember walking through CNN
through the old bureau building in New York, and I
saw her in a green room and I Remember I
looked at her, she looked at me.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
There was this knowing glance. I broke down in tears.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
I gave her a hug and I just said thank
you for saying what you said and doing what you've done.
And then after that I told my stories because I
just felt I had gotten power through us Moses from her,
because she's like that, she's her. Her feeling of empowerment
is infectious. When you're around it, you just want to
(29:48):
be as brave as she is.
Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, yeah, that's what happened, right, Yeah, yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Should reach out to her.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Didn't a similar thing happen to Brendan Fraser and Terry
Crews other men have come out.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
You know, there's a part of me when that because
it destroyed my life so much and it was such
a big secret that when Terry, you know, the more
I have thought about what happened to Terry and what
happened to Brendan in public and then having the vot
like the being courageous and saying you can't do that
(30:25):
in public, right, they didn't have all this uh you know,
torture like like like what Baby Reindeer went through. Then
you see that, Yeah, he really broke that down to incredible,
Like he didn't have that, They didn't have these inner
demons that destroyed their lives. They had this thing that
they shared with and it was really strong for everyone
who had gone through it. Yeah, Terry was so supportive
(30:48):
of me. It's such a big way. You know. He
kept telling me to try to get louder. You get loud.
I can't get loud.
Speaker 3 (30:57):
No, we can't all get as loud as to right.
That's great though.
Speaker 1 (31:03):
So I was. I was a big part of that
me Too movement. I was always in those meetings with
SAG I get part of it. I helped organize this
big committee with all these big powerhouse Terry being one
and trying to you know, trying to make rules that
would empower actors.
Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
Streen Actors Guild, and that's basically what it was, is
that you're allowed to speak up. Yeah, you know what,
the more I thought about it, that's that's it. Because
if they they silence you, and they keep you silenced
a predator, you're you're in trouble. But if you're aboud
to speak out, careful what they do, it'll be cautious
(31:40):
to what they're doing.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Yeah, I'm a little I think Me Too was really
impactful and important, but I don't think it's done.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
And I know in my business ie things have gotten
a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
But what still happens is if you talk, if you
speak out about someone, you're generally just not hired again.
And that's the that's the rub for us. Because Me
Too led a lot of people in my business to
speak out, a lot of them never got hired again.
And so we still have to make the choice do
(32:15):
I speak out or do I want to keep my job?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
And that sucks. That's the sucky part in my business.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
That's what we JAGU do and SAG is empowered person
go this happened. It doesn't mean that we need to
eliminate this individual. Yeah, we just need to regulate this individual,
but to make sure that that whatever that they did
to me never happens again. You know. So if someone
if someone had done that with Franco, yeah, I wouldn't
(32:42):
have been abused, right right, So that's the thing you
read the way out, and then you can't be alone
in that. You need support in that, right, Yes, you
don't lose your job. That's the tricky rub right there.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
It is tricky, but thank you for sharing that the
first time and again with me. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Yeah. I think we shared some stuff that I've been
wanting to talk about, so I appreciate it very much.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
Oh I'm glad. Then I'm glad. Well we're not done.
Let's move on to some better things. Winona Ryder, Jessica Lang,
Gwyneth Paltrow, Live Tyler. You've worked with some very talented women.
Who's your favorite female acting partner Jessica Lang.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, why, well, she taught me everything I needed to know.
Oh my god, she was just like she would tell
me just straight up. They said I was doing wrong? Really,
Oh yeah, she is brilliant and she really she I
don't even know how she does that with everyone, but
she did it with me. She was my mother in it,
so that's great.
Speaker 3 (33:48):
What was the story with Ellen DeGeneres. You would go
to public events with her?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
What was that is crazy?
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, I mean my manager came to me one day
and said, Ellen has a TV show, wasn't her talk show?
And she's afraid that you know too, for the public
to think that she's gay, and she'd like for you
to be her date. And I was like, and I
loved her. She was awesome Jesus, but.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
You didn't know her or you didn't know her.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
We were with the same manager, so I was always
around her and we always got along. So well, okay,
well I would take her on the red carpet and
hold her hand and never forget the days he kissed
me on the bread and yeah, it was right around
the time with the whole Zephyr Eli thing. I always
wanted to tell Ellen when I happened.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
You never got to tell Ellen.
Speaker 1 (34:42):
Never got to tell Alan. I would have liked to
share that with her because I was you can imagine
then I was hiding her see her shame right, Yeah,
in my shame. I didn't know what it was. I
really needed to talk to someone about it. Yeah. Well
she was a great person, I had to and your
most interesting thing of all that, and then watching her
(35:03):
become very successful after and so she came out. She
was rich, she was very successful. You know, she was
in great relationships. She was healthy in her relationships to
a degree, but like it seemed like she had everything,
but what she really didn't have was love, love for herself.
(35:26):
So when she when Anne Hash and her started dating
and I don't know if this exactly happened. I'm pretty
certain this Anne was basically like, you you're with me,
You're with me. The old world needs to know, right like,
you're not gonna go out with him, here with me.
(35:47):
And I think that was kind of the way it happened.
And it made her really like look at herself a
different way. And then they broke up. And then it
broke up. She went into a very dark period whereas
never got this. I hardly ever saw her after that.
And then she came out with the talk show and
she became this beautiful human being that people didn't realize,
(36:09):
you know, she was gay anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They just thought you didn't care.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
Yeah, they didn't care, which was really good for us.
Yeah as a society.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Of course, are you still friendly?
Speaker 1 (36:20):
When I moved I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, I tried
really hard to reach out to her so that if
it was the last time I would ever see her,
that I could say goodbye to her. And I wasn't
able to do that. We're gonna have dinner, and then
it fell apart and then she's you know, she's retreated
wherever she is now. Well, hopefully you get that chance
(36:44):
to talk. I did. I had a beautiful moment. It
was in the It was in the garage at Soho
and she pulled up in her Porsche. She goes, Jonathan,
I was with my little boy and I was like
he ended like yeah, Porsia like was. I was like, hi,
poor John, Jonathan, oh man, you know friends with Ellen
(37:06):
for such a long time, and this wait, I said,
this is my little miracle, you know, this is my own.
She was so sweet. Then she had had a new idea.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
She was yeah, right, that's nice.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Though, Maybe that was the closure that I needed.
Speaker 3 (37:19):
Maybe, yeah, yeah, oh that's great. Up next, what's the
story behind the leather coat? Guy? More with Jonathan Check
Tell me about Blue Ridge.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So, Blue Ridge is a beautiful series. It's it's a
series that I can watch it with my eleven year
old son and my eighty eight five year old father
and everyone's going to have to do time watching it,
and you can watch it. My wife can watch it
because there's a lot of romance in it as well. Okay,
but the beautiful thing about Blue Ridge is it came
(38:01):
to me after I left Hollywood. I didn't want to
have anything to do with the process of Hollywood anymore,
and I knew it wasn't working for me. And I
called up five of my friends, Tom Hanks being one
and one, Nicholas Gonzalez, and Nick said, you have got
to meet this producer named Gary Wheeler and I'll hook
(38:25):
you guys up. And Gary called me up and he said, Jonathan,
I had this film about a guy who leaves California
and moved to a small town to be with his family. Yeah.
I was like, yeah, buddy, Yeah, thank you. I don't
know if that's a god smack or what, but then
that's pretty wild.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:44):
And then we went and shot the movie and then
COVID hit and Gary called me one around Christmas. He
was like, they want to turn this into a series.
I'm like, well, they wanted me to be in it.
He was like, yeah, yeah, a big idea. I was like,
why won't you do this right away a few years ago? Hey?
And you know what? They wrote six beautiful scripts and
(39:07):
the first season's coming out. It came out on ISP Yeah,
but now it's coming out of Amazon Prime. Okay, good
support to get to see it. People love it. It's
the kind of reminds me of old school TV that
I used to grow up on, where the whole family
would sit down and watch it.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
Yeah, right, for me, that was murder.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
She wrote, Yeah, this is very similar.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
I love that. You know.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
She was a writer like me and living in New
England where I grew up, and I.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Was just like, oh, I want to be Jessica Fletcher.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
But we would all gather to watch it, and there's
not a lot of that left anymore.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yes, yeah, then we brought that back.
Speaker 3 (39:40):
Why did you want to leave Hollywood?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Well, I realized like that even though audition audition process
had created such shame in me, and I need a
distance from it. I knew just I couldn't, I couldn't
continue down that road and I needed to maintain my sobriety,
and I didn't want to cause any harm in my family,
and I just I just knew it was the right thing.
(40:05):
I surrendered to something much more powerful than I had
ever experienced before. And I'm completely surrendered and knew that
I just didn't need to be part of that world anymore.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
When you put yourself first, I'll speak from my experience,
not yours.
Speaker 2 (40:24):
You know, I had like a nervous breakdown a few
years ago and a lot of it had to do
with what I do for a living, and my fear
was okay, well, the obvious thing to do is stop
doing what I do.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
But who am I?
Speaker 1 (40:37):
Then?
Speaker 3 (40:38):
Will I still get work? Will I still get to
do stuff?
Speaker 2 (40:42):
If I take myself out of the sort of the
firing line that I've lived in for a very long
time doing news in politics, what then? But I haven't
completely left that world, but I've set a lot of
boundaries and I've changed sort of the way that I
work within that space.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
And when you put yourself first, it is so scary
at first, but for me it's been validated again and
again and again over time. Have you felt that way.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
Yes, very much so. So you know you may not
get the call that you're used to getting. Better call. Yes,
And if we live in fear, it doesn't happen. We
don't allow ourselves. Those are too scared. But when we
live in we go into the unknown, and we have
courage in it, things come to us. Being brave is rewarded.
(41:32):
So good for you. It's a tough world that you
live in. I don't watch the news.
Speaker 3 (41:39):
I'm jealous.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
We fund ourself on the radio. I'm like, man, I
don't know what they're I don't know what they're selling,
but I'm I'm not interested. I'm not interested.
Speaker 3 (41:51):
It is tough. But well, that's that's great advice and
I'm glad we shared those stories. Uh okay.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
Next we're going to lighten up with a lightning round.
And the first part is a bit of a quiz.
It's but it's a quiz about you. Okay, let's say
if I know me, Yeah, we'll see.
Speaker 3 (42:14):
What is the name? You'll know this? This is easy.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
What is the name of the beach band that the
Wonders play in that thing?
Speaker 1 (42:22):
You do Captain Geech and the Shrimp Shack Shooters?
Speaker 3 (42:25):
Correct? Okay, But the second part is trickier. What is
Captain Geach and the Shrimp Shack Shooters named after?
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Uh? Tom was filming Bulbus Shrimp farst Gum, Yes, and
he would he kept driving by this. He told me this.
Here's I kept driving by this shrimp Shack. I think
it was like old dilapidated thing, and that's how it
came up with the name.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Yes, it's two restaurants. He kept driving by Captain Geeches
and the Shrimp Shack, and so he combined them.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
So he was writing while he was making Uh.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yep, amazing in the sweetest thing. What are your only
lines as leather coat guy?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Oh? I know, I am, but what do you something
like that, something like that, Yeah, what's up with you?
Speaker 3 (43:15):
With you nothing? What's up with you? Nothing? What's up
with you?
Speaker 1 (43:19):
You know? The story behind that I was I was
watching Christina perform that day during camera and they said, Jonathan,
will you go in the scene.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Oh, you were just on sets as Christina's husband try
to pick her.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
Up, and so look, thank you for my beer. And Christina,
you know, she's such a genius. She just comes up
with this little brief that we started to do back
and forth.
Speaker 3 (43:42):
Oh my god, that's amazing.
Speaker 2 (43:43):
Did you come in with the leather jacket on or
did they put the leather coat on you?
Speaker 1 (43:47):
They put me through wardrobe. They said, go to wardrobe
and get because I think I had a baseball cap and.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
You didn't look like you were going clubbing.
Speaker 1 (43:54):
Yeah, and so yeah, the leather coat guy. And then
they asked me to continue the part. But I I
was doing this film that I had a flat to Morocco. Well,
it was a great little part.
Speaker 3 (44:04):
It was great.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
And that's a really funny, funny movie. Okay, the quizzes well, no,
the quiz is not over. What was your high school
mascot ram?
Speaker 3 (44:13):
Yeah, you got it. Okay, the quiz is over. You
have two kids? What kind of dad are you?
Speaker 1 (44:20):
Wow? It's deep. I just try to be as present
as I can. Yeah, and you know, my sobriety, it's
one thing about I will always chirp about my being sober.
It is like I'm present with my children. I mean,
I'm there. If I was drinking, if I had party
(44:41):
on my brain, or if I wanted to go do
certain things to just kind of escape and I'd be
a little boy, I wouldn't be present for them as
much as so. I'm really proud of myself for getting sober.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Present is everything. Yeah, okay. What's the best thing you
make for your kids in terms of food?
Speaker 1 (45:02):
Oh? Wow, I make them bagels and we you know,
they get to choose their toppings.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
Oh that's fun. That's great. Okay.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
And chicken. They love chicken because I eat chicken five
times a day.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yeah, okay, that's good. What's your favorite Christmas movie?
Speaker 1 (45:21):
Die Hard?
Speaker 3 (45:25):
That is legit a Christmas movie? And I don't blame you.
That's great. It's a great film.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
It all want to be in a Christmas movie.
Speaker 3 (45:34):
We should have not done a Christmas movie.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
Have they ever made one about like a newscaster who
finds love? Oh?
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Like a Hallmark movie? Yeah, oh, we should do that.
That would be really fun. I'll write it. You or
you're in it.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
All right, let's do it.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
I love that has to be in a small town.
Speaker 2 (45:51):
She's writer for a small town newspaper, or maybe she
leaves the big city for a small town.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Exactly. That's what you have to it's got They got
their little equation down.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Oh it's a formula.
Speaker 1 (46:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:01):
Oh but you'd be so great in that. Okay, we'll
do that. Okay.
Speaker 2 (46:05):
Final question, and it's very important to me. When is
iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Mm hmm. It's begins in July. When does it go
to September?
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Okay, that's incorrect.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
It would be July to July year round, is the
correct answer. That's just because I'm from Boston and there's
Dunkin Donuts in my blood.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I did go to Cornell Wow, great school.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Oh yeah, I loved it.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
We had a lot of laxers from from Maryland.
Speaker 2 (46:43):
It was a big, big feeder school from Maryland, Lacrosse exactly.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
Well, Jonathan checked.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
This was fun and insightful and important and I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yeah, thank you for It's important to talk about these
things for our mental out and yes, and to do
it in a way that people can hear it. You know,
I've done so much work of myself, so I'm not
going to get buried into these, you know, shameful episodes
when I speak of it. And I appreciate you not
being too triggered to where we couldn't have a resourceful
(47:17):
conversation in which we did. So.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Thanks same to you, and look, no shame, all gain
in talking about it, all gain.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
Next week on Off the Cup, I talked to a
comic writer, actress all the things, Judy Gold.
Speaker 3 (47:36):
We're the truth tellers. We're not afraid to tell the
truth right right and call people out and say you're
you're Are we allowed to curse on this?
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel
Hill and Native Land pod For Off the Cup, I
am your host, se cup editing and sound designed by
Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me Se cop Lauren Hanson,
and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts.
(48:09):
Follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday,
Host
S.E. Cupp
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