April 16, 2025 • 58 mins
This week on the pod, comedian, actress all around talent, Judy Gold! The comedian talks about the struggle to be funny in this moment, the Trump Effect on comedy and the intrinsic elements of humor — vulnerability and truth — that are so unfortunately lacking right now but in this political regime in particular. Judy shares what she was like as a kid - a natural observer who said everything - whose appearance and height were the source of endless bullying. Judy talks about her career, the breaks and disappointments and how stand-up will always be her main squeeze. S.E. and Judy also trade anxiety stories and find a lot of each other in them. Stay for the lightning round to see if Judy really knows the details of her own career.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Life is a series of befoors and afters, and then
you become a different person, you know. I remember when
my father died when I was in my twenties, and
definitely a different person after that, and this changed me
so much.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
I have known today's guest for I don't know how long,
Like I truly don't know how long. Maybe she can
tell me. But there are times when no one can
contextualize a news story or politics the way a comic can,
and so we in the news business regularly invite comics
(00:40):
on to help put a story in perspective, or make
fun of it or make us laugh through the insanity.
And that is how I got to know her. And
I've always loved her quickness, her passion, her intelligence, her timing,
and how hard she works. She is an Emmy Award
winning comic with stand up specials for Comedy Central and HBO, appearances,
countless television shows including Broad City and Search Party, recurring
(01:04):
roles in All American Girl and the First Lady. She's
done theater, she's written books. There is nothing she hasn't done.
It's Judy Gold welcome to Off the Cup, Judy, thank Youssi.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm so happy to be here. You know, I'm a
huge fan.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, we'll say i'm huge fan. When did we meet?
Do you know? I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's gonna be it's at least ten, maybe fifteen.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I said a master. Or was it at CNN?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, I feel like it was at CNN. Okay,
it feels I remember talking to you at CNN and
you were I don't know. I remember talking to you
in a million places, yeah, a.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Million places in my memory. We have just always known
each other. I know that's not true or possible, and.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
We have we have mutual friends or many people, you know,
like we'rek people, many many.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah. Well, I'm so thrilled that you're here. Do you
in all the things you do? Do you like going
on the news, Like when I would ask you to
come on for some story, did you like doing that?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I do like doing it. It also depends on the host.
So you're great at it because you're a comedy fan
and you're you were a performer as a kid. Yes,
And you're a friend to the lgbt Q community, always
have been friend and supporter you're smart, you're no nonsense,
(02:26):
and it's that is ultimost.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I like everything you're saying, but it.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Really does depend on who the host is and like
what their intent is. And I think your intent is
always to get, you know, different perspectives on a story
so that people can make a conclusion based on different,
you know, points of view and totally and so and
(02:52):
when it's hey, we're gonna have a comic, we just
want you to be funny and I'm going to mostly
pay attention to this one and then if you could
jab and you know that's not fun because we are
social commentators. We do follow the news, yes, and we're
also and you know you talk about having comics on
(03:14):
panels and stuff. We're the truth tellers. We're not afraid
to tell the truth right right and call people out
and say you're you're Are we allowed to curse on this? Yes? Bullshitting?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yes, you know, yes, well, And that's why I love
I love having comics on too sort of skewer and
I don't know, get cut right to the core of
a story right in the last business, we have to
dance around it a little bit. We have to be
you know, we have to be polite. We have to,
and you guys, you can, you can go right to
the core and sometimes we just need.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
That, right And I love and I know how much
you appreciate that I do. Yeah, and that is so apparent.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You're so good at that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, we don't do politics here mostly, but I just
want to ask broadly for you as a comic. Has
it gotten harder to be funny about politics since the
stakes feel higher? Now?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
You know? Such a good question. I think it's more
difficult when you're enraged. So it's so hard to be
funny when you're enraged. Vulnerability is a huge part of
being funny, because you can be angry when the audience knows,
(04:31):
you know, I connect with her the acoustic sort of vulnerability,
and you can't do it without that vulnerability, which is
why so many people who think they're funny, and not
comics but government officials who think are people running for
(04:51):
office or in office or elected to office, act like
they're funny. You have no idea what it is to
be funny, and there's no funny without the truth. For me, personally,
there has been a huge and you know, I don't
shy away from anything yes, there has been a huge
shift since October seventh. Right, So for me as an
(05:15):
out Jewish Zionist with a nuanced opinion based on fact
experience being in the area meeting with Jews, I'm sorry
Israelis and Palestinians, you know, really knowing, you know been
I mean, these people have never been there. You know,
(05:40):
so many comics are saying I don't want to do
my Jewish material, it's not worth it, and benign Jewish
jokes that you know that we're funny. On October sixth,
then all of a sudden, because I'm a Jew, they're
not funny. It's it's been really, really hard. That's been
(06:00):
the hardest part, you know, And I think about how
every president we have skewered. I mean it's part of
our culture. Yes, every comic, I mean down to I
mean Clinton was a gold mine. George W. Bush was
a gold mine, Carter was a gold mine. Reagan was
(06:22):
a gold mine. You know, everyone laughed because this is
our presence, this is what we do in this country.
We have First Amendment rights. Satire is I think so
important anyway, but you would do it. A benign Trump
joke in twenty sixteen about his hair. They would like
(06:45):
completely turn on, like okay, I'm not even talking about
politics here, I'm.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Talking to somebody, right, Yeah, well, I know everything looks
different after Trump, I know, coming from this or right.
I look back on the Obama years differently now, and
what I said about Obama, I didn't do crazy things.
I didn't do birtherism in that guard, but I was
pretty critical of his agenda. And I remember a long
(07:14):
time ago, you had some you had some words for
for W. M H. You got you got in a
little hot water. Yeah, for w you called him a living,
breathing piece of shit.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
All right, do we have to review this? No?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
But do you look back at that any Do you
look back at those years any differently now? Because Trump
has so changed not just politics, but he's changed the country.
He's changed what oh good guy?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yes, yes, yeah, because I look back and you know,
I was at a Howard Dean benefit. I didn't even
support Howard Dean, but you know they asked me to
do this benefit, and he was in the lead. And
I really didn't like George W. Bush because of my
you know, LGB two. I was fighting for the right.
(08:04):
I just wanted to be legitimized, you know, as a
human being and live with dignity. And it was just
like cut the shit. But you know, that was at
a function, and that's what the newspaper picked up. And yeah,
it's been so much different because first of all, Trump
(08:25):
thinks he's a fucking Oh I'm allowed to curse. Trump
thinks he's a fucking comedian, and he's a hack you know,
and if you his rallies are just hacky, I'm going
I'm gonna i gotta laugh at the rally two weeks ago.
I'm gonna repeat that. I mean, not even funny, try
to be and you have to have self awareness to
(08:46):
be a funny person. But yes, you know, I think
about how they didn't have a comedian at the White
House correspondence dinner and how lame that was. But yes,
it's really changed. And you know what's really sad, I think,
and I'm sure this is in your industry, comics were
(09:10):
a unified group. We were always had each other's back. Yeah,
no matter what I mean. You know me, I have
friends from every end of the political spectrum. Yeah, it's
not like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
It's not like that in my business either. You're absolutely right. Yeah,
we're so bifurcated now in the press that we're on
teams and we're all doing we should all be doing
the same thing, right in journalism, holding power for people
account right, that's it. But now there's the good guys,
the bad guys, this team, that team. It's awful.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But how does it feel I really want to know,
as a journalist, how does it feel? Well? I watched
Trump say, look at them all, back there, those it's
such an assault on the free press, on you know,
our first first amendment. It's the first one for a reason,
(10:09):
doesn't don't you feel threatened? Like I felt threatened when
he said he was going to investigate SNL. I was like,
it's not learned it, I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, it's not that I feel threatened. I have been threatened.
First of all, He's tweeted at me, right, Trump has
tweeted at me my name, thank you, Masel, thank you,
thank you. But I have been threatened. I've been threatened.
You know, CNN has been sent pipe bombs. I've been
threatened at my home and listen, we I got that
(10:40):
before Trump as well, but not in the numbers, not
in the severity and the scariness.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And the social media of it all.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And then there's that and we're very public people, right,
we have to be everywhere we're on social media. We
have we all have our different platforms, and so yeah,
that is a really terrible part of my job. And
I hate that it's a part of the job now
and that we all just talk about it matter of factly,
like well, that just comes with it. That should not
come with it.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
But it didn't come with it before.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, it didn't. It didn't.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And it's like, you know, I think back of all
the celebrities who I loved and then you find out
shit about them, like oh really, you know, and and
we didn't have that because you could have your personal
life and your opinions and your political leanings and you
could be a big storm. People could love you and
for your art and then you're like, oh, I hate
(11:37):
that person now, Like it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, we're so defined by politics now, right, and that's
not how it should be. The center of our universes
should not be politics. It should be our communities, our
friends or family, our work.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You know. It's funny when my book came out, the yes,
I can say that book about free speech. Yes, the
first review on Amazon was this woman who said, I'm paraphrasing,
but she basically said, do not read this book. She
you know, she's just another lefty. I mean, you know,
(12:10):
I'm not the most lefty, but whatever, but she's just
another blah blah blah, which is exactly the point of
the book. I did enjoy how I did learn a lot,
and I thought she really handled the bill cosby situation.
Like so there was low like I like the book,
but she don't read it.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's perfect right, right, as a review
on a book about that is perfect right?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, what kind of kid were you? Let's go back?
What kind of cake?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
God? So, first of all, I mean I think back now,
I was really I said everything. I said everything. I
was like walk none, and I was like why is
everyone to like, why can't we talk about And it
was constant. It was always like Judith, go upstairs, Judith?
(13:09):
You know, but I just made an unto Judith. Everyone
in my family still, yeah, you will always be Judy
to me. That's amazing. Yeah, it's so funny. And that
if they call me Judy, I get really uncomfortable. But
it was always like Judith, stop, you know, shut up.
I definitely I had terrible ADHD that was undiagnosed, but
(13:32):
I really had good coping mechanisms. But yes, I was funny,
very unpopular. I was six feet at thirteen. I got
it bullied. It was like, you know, thank god there
was no social media because I was one of the
most bullied kids. And I think back, thank god I
(13:52):
could go home and go, you know, play the piano,
or go to my room or you know, call my
three friends whatever. I had had a way to escape it,
and these kids have no escape, right I would get
I got a D in self control in fourth grade and.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Would you remember, oh my.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
God, because I had never gotten a D ever ever,
and you know it was all about you know, i'd
get a ninety nine. Why didn't you get a hundred?
You know, it was that kind of yeah. But I
was like I had Spelke's. I was just like and
I was always thinking in joke and funny and I
would always notice shit about people like that no one noticed,
(14:38):
and yeah, I was music has really saved me. I know,
you know you were a dancer, right, yeah, yeah, that
is the one thing I could really focus on. So
I think that learning music and practicing the piano and reading,
you know, like that, I think was the thing that
(15:01):
got me through everything. But yeah, I what did.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You want to be? You didn't want to be a comedian,
did you.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Well? I wanted to be Barber streisand but that wasn't
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I mean it was I mean I tried. First of all,
I tried out for the basketball team in seventh grade
and the coach told me I was too tall for
the team and it wouldn't be fair to the other players. Okay, meanwhile,
my son is a Division one basketball player, Okay he is, yes,
And then you know, I joined the band. I was
in the marching band, and you know, very nerdy. I
(15:32):
wanted to be in the school play and they were like,
you're so tall. It was like ridiculous. I even audition
for graduate school at Mason Gross and Bill Asper, who
was the head of the graduate school, said, you know,
you're very talented. You have impeccable comedic timing, but how
do you expect me to cast you too? And I
was like, oh my god. And my mother was like,
ye'all show him. But I had this agency I had
(15:57):
something in me even as a child that was like
you're gonna You're gonna get through that. I don't know
what it was, but I definitely felt awkward and humiliated
on a daily basis. You know when I feel that now,
you know, you when you recognize feelings from your childhood
is when I go on a step and repeat for
(16:17):
something and they're like, you know, sometimes if there's a
big star there, they just treat you like you're just
human waste. So those kind of things. I hate going
to premieres and stuff like that, and I'm always surprised
when we're like, Judy, look over here, Judy.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You know, I know that feeling too.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
You know, it's the worst. Yeah, but I was definitely funny.
I was, I don't know, yeah, And I would always
be like why is everyone depressed? Or like why are
we not talking about mister elephant right there?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah? And then you go to you go to Rutgers
and you do stand up on a dare right? Did
you love it immediately?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Oh? My god? Okay, First of all, I was a
music major. I was gonna I wanted to be. My
parents really wanted me, especially my father, to be a
music teacher, but I knew I wanted to perform, like
you asked me as a kid. It was like I
just wanted to be on the stage. Yeah, yeah, And
I loved you know, I would watch so many variety shows,
(17:23):
like I loved Tony Fields, and I loved Joan Rivers,
and I loved Philis Diller and Jean Carroll and Moms
Maybee and I would just be like drawn to these
women who just said shit that you weren't supposed to say.
And yeah, so it was Secret Sanna's and my Secret
Sanna sent me a note under the door, and we
(17:45):
did it very We were very creative with our Secret Sannah,
which now should be what secret seasonal whatever, you know,
Secret Winter. Yeah. I felt completely assaulted as a Jew
that I was playing secrets. So anyway, so he put
this note on under my door that said you have
to do five to ten minutes of stand up and
(18:07):
use everyone who lives on the floor as fodder for material.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And I had a great challenge. I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It was like I took it. So I didn't go
to class. I was sitting there just writing jokes. There
was a funny kid on the floors, like let's let's
work this. I mean it was and I remember standing
there and you know, everyone was doing shit, but I
they said, okay, now Judy's gonna do And I had
(18:37):
a microphone and I had my jokes and I did
my first joke and I took it so seriously, like
I was like nervous and stuff. And I got a
laugh and I Am not kidding. It was like my
body came, you know, came out and was looking down
(18:57):
and was like I never had that feeling about anything,
and I was like, this is what I'm meant to do.
And that was it. That was it. And you know,
even today, when I get on the subway with my notebook,
I'm going to be sixty two. Well probably i'll be
sixty two when this airs, but you know, I'm sixty
(19:19):
two and I get on this. I get on this
subway with my notebook going down to the comedy seller.
I can't wait. I can't wait to try out a
new joke. It's like I still love it that much.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah great. I mean for me, the writing is like that.
For me, I'm a writer, and I you know, TV
sort of came with it, but but all I want
to do is write and it's something I have to
do to breathe. It's like breathing right, and you feel
you and I don't do it.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Do you don't you sleep better when you write? Yes? Same? No?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I mean it really does impact and impacts my mental
health and impacts so much because it is something I
have to do. And real writers know that, know that's feeling.
So I completely get it. And I completely get the
rush of feeling seen and heard and appreciated and talented.
Right when you feel like, RW, I'm talented at something
(20:13):
and everyone sees.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It right, and you know, we get we get immediate gratification.
You do yeah or not right, and you write and
you probably I know because I write too. You're like, yeah,
I think this is good, you know, like we're it's
like a joke. It's like I'm like this is hilarious.
(20:35):
And now I got on stage and nothing, and I'm like, really,
you know, Yeah, did you study English or writing in school?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
No? I was writing. My mother was an English teacher,
and so I grew up grew up in a very
verbal house and where you know, she used all the
correct words all the time, and so I was writing
books at like six and seven. They weren't good, and
I was writing novels, you know, because I just loved it.
That was my creative outlet and it was so natural
(21:06):
to me. I never took classes. I got to college
and I was an art history major, thinking I would
I would write in that space somehow, but no, I
never took a class. Never.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, I mean I take a comedy class. I mean
it's in you right. It's so funny because I was
talking to someone about, you know, people who are like
art history majors or music majors or whatever, and that
people are like, eh, you know, like unless you're like
finance or whatever. And it's like, do you realize that
(21:42):
art is a vehicle to learn every everything everything. You
learn about the history of the world through art history,
you know, music history, you know what the hell was
going on?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You know, math history.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I mean it's ever so, yeah, we don't appreciate the
arts here.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
No, And I get defensive of that sometimes when someone's like, no,
what'd you do with that degree? This learned a lot. Yeah,
I learned a lot with that degree. Well. I once
read that you said a female comic can't be hot looking.
Men are not going to listen to you. If you are.
Do you think that's changed?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yes, like Raser, right, Nikki is very hot.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Rachel even, I don't want to say even take that back.
Not even Amy Schumer became famous, famously funny for talking
about looks and women and the idea of that, the
idea of a woman's look and comedy.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And I wonder, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
If it's changed at all, because I'm sure that was
true at one time.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah. So because Jeane Carrol, who really was the first
real female stand up in fact, you know, men would
steal jokes from her. She was beautiful. But if you
look at all the women comedians from the fifties, sixties, seventies,
(23:17):
they're eighties. I mean, there was always a disclaimer in
the very beginning of their set, Like Jean Carrol, I know,
I gained a little wake higher. Oh why didn't she
get that?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well?
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You know, even with Joan, I know I'm a woman
and I should be, you know, ironing my husband's handkerchiefs.
You know, there was always some self deprecating thing to
put the audience at ease, to say, I know my
place now, can you listen to my act?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And I don't think that we have that situation anymore.
And it is thanks to I mean to all the
woman who came before and opened the door and the
ceiling for people to say, you know, fuck you, I'm hot.
(24:09):
I mean, if you go back to the eighties when
I started huge shoulder pads, men's jackets, very asexual, very
just listen to my work. Just listen to what I'm
saying instead of yeah, meanwhile, these guys can look like fuck.
I remember I fucking slops with their sweatpant I remember
(24:32):
I was a Catch rising star and Adam Sandler must
have been eighteen nineteen years old, and he and I'm
sitting standing there with Lewis Randa, who now runs the
New York Comedy Club. But he was the he was
the first. He was a bartender at Catch and then
he became the booker. And he's standing there and Adam
(24:53):
goes on and he's funny, but he's like, it looks
like he just got out of bed, didn't brush his teeth,
hasn't done low dream three months, you know, yeah, And
he and Lewis goes He's going to be a star,
and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
How can't even clean his pants?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I know, And if a woman went on like that. Yeah, right,
forget it. There's always been but you know, what's this.
This happened over the pandemic. So women when I started,
and up until probably the twenty first century, women never
worked together. We were never put on the same show.
So if they had a woman on the show, it
(25:32):
was one. And when we went on the road, we
went and had to share condos with two guys we
don't know, or three guys. It was. It was really hell. Yeah.
And there was a club in Soho called Comedy You
Grand on fifty five Grand Street and every Thursday night
(25:53):
they had the way they advertised it was all female comedians.
I was like, you know, we're not a circuit. You
don't have to double down on the and Thursday night
it was and we got five bucks. But it was
all women. We didn't have to follow some fucking you know, hey,
my dick, and our next act is a is a woman.
(26:15):
You know, they would always introduce us our next act
is female, or they'd be like, our next act is gigantic,
and it's like I used to just get on stage
and give it right back, like that was our MC.
He's got balls and a cock, and uh, you know
I gave it right back to them. But so this
night was all women and we did a reunion over
(26:40):
the pandemic on Zoom and this is where I, you know,
met Joy Behar and Susie Esmond and you know I
just said, LORI kill Martin, want to psykes? You know,
it was just all these Kathy Ladman, I mean, they
were just it was amazing. And Joy said on this
Zoom if it wasn't for those Thursday nights, I would
(27:00):
have quit doing stand up wow, because it was so
it was just like okay, And so this me too
thing came out and part of me was like, oh good,
and the other part was like, all right. I mean,
you know, I've had to listen to so much shit
and they shouldn't behave like that, but they've gotten away
(27:22):
with it. I call it out all the time.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But when do you think of what do you think
of Matt Rife?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Hell, I mean, he's a good looking guy, right who
does rape jokes?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
So yeah, and crowd it's not I think he's agreed.
There's so many the rules change, Essie. Like we used
to go on the road, we would say we had
no computers.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
We were completely isolated. We had no phone. You couldn't
use the phone in the hotel because it would eat
up your entire salary for the week. We used to
go on the road to develop our act, just to
be if you if you were the feature act, you
got to do thirty thirty five minutes. And that's how
we and then we came back to the city with
a new six minutes, new eight minutes to get on
(28:18):
a late night show. And then once you were on
some even cable show like A and He's even the Improver,
Caroline's Comedy or VH one stand up Spotlight. That's how
you got club work from working on your act.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Really developed, and you'd go out with this little seed
and you'd come back with a huge bit and it
was the most exciting thing. And people don't do that anymore.
And so Matt Rife is an example of, Hey, let
me get a lot of followers on social and then
I'm gonna pack the clubs. But I really don't know
(28:58):
this craft that well. But I'm really good looking, and
the girls love even like it's so infuriating, you know,
these it's all about your followers, and so I feel
like they go to these clubs and they see these
people and a lot of times club owners say, you know,
I had this. This woman had a viral video and
I had her in and she sold out two shows.
(29:20):
And then nine months later I booked her and no
one showed up. It's like, yeah, you have to do
the work right right. So, and they think I'm gonna
make a funny video. I know how to do an
hour in a club.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
No, you don't. No, do you think Nate BARGETSI is
more of the old school. I'm going to work on
these jokes for a really long time and try him
out everywhere.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think he's one of the Yeah. I mean, you know,
I look at him. I'm like white guy boy, you know,
like I can I like really edgy, edgy comedy.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, so he's very clean.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, it's just like, okay, I got it. But I'm
just I love clubs. I love that dark, dingy dangerous.
I love dangerous.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That's the sit of that. Is is a television a
sound studio And you've done so much TV as an actor,
right is do you see that as something completely separate
for you? Is that a completely different muscle or is
that sort of building.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
On one hundred percent I mean, I've taken so many
I've studied acting so and I did Shakespeare in the
Park and and you know, I love acting, but it's
a whole other muscle. And I remember when I did
when I got cast on All American Girl, right, and
I remember going, yeah. I remember thinking, oh my god,
(30:44):
I got a sitcom. I don't have to do stand
up anymore. And I remember thinking I couldn't wait. I'm
reading other people's lines. It's so milk toast. I was like,
I gotta get on stage. I gotta be you know,
I gotta be free. I couldn't. And they used to
be like, why are you going? You know, Margaret and
b D and everyone would be like, you know, we'd
(31:06):
all be having dinner. I'm like, I gotta go. I
got a spot at this comedy store. And they'd be like,
what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And I'm like why this should be enough?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, they used to call me the leopard. Everyone, even
Joy and Suit like why do you do so many spots?
I'm like, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And it was too safe. TV was too safe.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And it's controlled by other people, you know, Yeah, I don't.
I mean, I'm sure you've had this where you have
an executive there while you're doing your show who shows
up and then they stand in the corner like yep,
just whispering, and you're like, do you want me to
pack my things up? Now?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
It's like yeah, yeah, this is That's how it was
during our like the rehearsal, and they'd be standing there
and you're just going, I, yeah, I I have.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
A Let me get home and get a suitcase and
I'll get rid of my dresser, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Like yeah, and comfortable.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Right, it's awful, and stand up is and when you're
good at it and you have control and you feel
so comfortable, and that takes at least ten years, I'm sorry,
to really get up there and go I got this.
Nothing's gonna throw me. And the reason I'm so comfortable
(32:21):
is I've done the shittiest, crappiest venues in the middle
of nowhere, and it taught me. Every every set should
teach you something.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And we have this in common in our businesses as well.
Where As a woman, you reach an age and you
are told not unsubtly right, you might want to move on,
or you know you're too old for an anchor position, right,
And I read that Comedy Central once told your manager
(32:57):
that you had asked out of having a special, which,
which is like ridiculous. Does not happen to men, right never?
And while your business is I mean, I guess it's
partly a visual business, but it's really not. It's your material.
And my business is partly a visual business, but it's
also my brain and what's coming out of my mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, if you're gonna yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It shouldn't matter, but it does.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I haven't. And I look at these guys, and you know,
Lewis Black, who's an old old friend life. He's a
fucking he's an angel, he's the greatest guy. He's brilliant,
he's so good, he's so good, and he's just on
the right side of everything. They'll never say, now you're
(33:45):
too old, No, no, right, right, you know right. The
people in mid look at Rickles?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
How old was Rickles? When he was?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Right? John stew I started with John Stewart, you know,
and Ray Romano. These were all the guys I started with.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Did you work with Brad Garrett at all?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Oh my god, Yes, I love Brad so much.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
We've had him on the pod.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, he's the best and you know, Phil Rosenthal wrote
a pilot for the two of us to play brother
and sister.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Stop it.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
But yeah, but no one Netflix didn't pick it up.
And yeah, it would have been so good, hilarious. It
was it was like you read a script and you're like,
oh my god, I can see that.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Oh my gosh, Okay, let's get.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That be hilarious. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Can I tell you I loved The First Lady so
much because it's all the things, it's you know, it's politics,
and it was so well done. And you play Elizabeth
Fisher read in the First Lady. She was a real
person who was very close to Eleanor Roosevelt. Yeah, it
was her personal attorney, and yeah, she was a suffragist,
She was a lawyer, advisor of Eleanor's. She was she
(34:57):
was openly gay. How did this cred a Ball role
come to you?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I auditioned and I did I audition or did Yeah?
I think I auditioned and I got it and esther
lape who was my girlfriend, my partner, my lover in
the I hate the term lover love, but that's what
they said. Uh, we were in week week. A lot
(35:25):
of we ended up in the on the cutting room floor,
and when we were doing this, there were scenes where
we're obviously in this women's salon in our apartment with
Eleanor there, and this is really where she became a
huge feminist and it was a huge part of her
(35:46):
life and an advocate for women. And you know, the
director really wanted us to be you know, we would
be touching now, don't you know. They they stopped that,
and they cut along a lot of the scenes that
really affirmed her homo sexuality or bisexuality or whatever, and
(36:09):
so that was kind of upsetting, but I loved I
loved it. It was such a you know, a period
piece and just and what women women actually, Yeah, and
it was like so women heavy. And you know, I've
always loved Eleanor Roosevelt. And my aunt, who's ninety five,
(36:30):
she went to she used to go to this camp
over the summer. My grandmother and her would go. I
don't I think it was I don't know it was
in Poughkeepsie, maybe, I don't know. And there's a picture
of her with Eleanor and they would go to these
learning sessions. But you know, you read about her. I
played her actually in Clinton the musical, which because Hillary
(36:55):
was you know, obsessed with her, but she was, I
mean talk about changing the that job of the first
lady and being independent and writing, you know, she won't
every day sort.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Of born out of his affair and right feeling right,
like having that catalyst say well, okay, if I have
to stay in this marriage, I'm going to have we're
gonna have separate lives and my separate life is going
to be full and rich.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And ye yes, yeah, I really, but it's like we
know that to you know, you look at like when
I talk to young gay kids, huh that are so entitled.
You know, I don't want to hear your stories about
(37:46):
whatever and whatever you know, and I want to say,
you know you're fighting so the people use the right pronoun,
but you wouldn't be fighting this if thirty years ago
my friends were not sick and dying like right, you
have no idea And so that's what I also think
(38:10):
is just so upsetting about. I mean, I sound like
an old lady, but it's true. You know your history.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
After the break, Judy and I swap anxiety stories. You've
talked openly about mental health, so violeence why I'm doing
(38:40):
this podcast. It's not a mental health podcast, but what
I wanted was to create a space where you could
dip in and out of mental health and talk about
anxiety or depression or whatever you're going to through naturally
in conversation. And so I was wondering if you could
talk a little bit about anxiety, depression, those periods.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Okay, well it's so interesting because I was just thinking.
I thought. I just thought the other day, if I
could get all the time back where I spent sitting
on a sofa being anxious or depressed or not really
(39:21):
functioning emotion Like, if I could have that time back, god,
you know, I would have so I would live for
so much longer, you know. But so I did have.
I had ADHD that was undiagnosed, and it was caught.
My mother was constantly Judith the way, Yeah you're shaking
(39:42):
a leg, and I calmed down, your hypa, go upstairs,
your hypa, your hypa. No one knew what it was.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
No.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
We would have reading time in school where we had
everyone had a piece of carpet and you would sit
in the corner and read. And I couldn't do it
like I couldn't do it like there was, and all
I wanted to do was read and be able to
sit there. But I just mu was stare at people
and my mind would wander and I'd read the same
(40:09):
sentence over and now and like I didn't know. And
that's why I think the fact that I read music
helped with my reading comprehension. Yeah, and I did read
a few books, but not as many. Like that's one
of my biggest regrets is that I didn't read all
the books in high school that I I mean, I
am a voracious reader now, but it took me. Okay,
(40:31):
so I feel like then I got to college, and
I was always bloody fingers, you know, really like every
bit of anxiety. I smoked pot all the time because
I needed to rest my brain. Yeah, so I definitely
(40:52):
did that. I never liked really drinking, but I'm kind
of enjoying now anyway. And so I was always really anxious.
And then I when I was in my twenties, I
went to some doctor and I did this test, like
a written test, and he said, you have ad HD
(41:13):
and OCD and that that is why you have been
able to function because you're OCD sometimes over steps your
add where you're like, if I don't do this, I'm
gonna be really mad at myself. I mean, I got oc.
I missed a gig because I was like, I have
(41:35):
to run five miles to day. I have to run
and there was a snowstorm coming and I knew if
I had left on you know anyway, So I had
lived with all this anxiety. I went on meds in
my thirties. I was so afraid to go on meds
because I thought I'm not gonna be funny. And then
in twenty ten, I woke up. Lisa and I were
(41:56):
in I had just done a show at the Theater
and DC and it was January second, I think or
January first, and we were in a hotel and I
woke up and I said, something's wrong. And I didn't
know what it was, but I was in a panic
and like I couldn't talk. I could not talk, and
I basically I had this major, massive depression, which you
(42:24):
would call a nervous breakdown, I guess, and that definitely
changed me. You know, life is a series of befoors
and afters, and then you become a different person, you know.
I remember when my father died when I was in
my twenties and definitely a different person after that. And
this changed me so much, and it took years, like
(42:48):
two and a half years or so for me to feel.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Normal.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It's my biggest fear that it'll happen again. But what
I learned was I had diurnal depression, which was when
the sun went down, I felt relief. I wasn't normal,
but I felt relief. I could eat a little bit,
but I couldn't nap. I couldn't take a nap because
I was afraid to wake up, because every time I
(43:16):
woke up, I was terrified and panicked. And yeah, and
I realized I had that my whole life, like it
to a certain degree. When the alarm would go off
in the morning, it was like, and I feel that
I reach out to people I'm you know, I say, hey,
(43:38):
not feeling I know now through cognitive behavioral therapy and
regular therapy, but cognitive behavioral therapy really gives you a
toolbox that is invaluable. But I do. I recognize it,
and I'll say to Alisa, now, today's not good. I
got to just get to the night time. You know,
(44:01):
I recognize it, and I feel so much for other
people who suffer like I. I just want to say,
it's it's the darkest of darkness, It's beyond like and
I you get to this place, I'm sure you've been
there where you you don't commit suicide, but you know why,
(44:22):
you know intellectually, Oh, this is why people end their lives.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, it feels hopeless. How does this end? When? Where's
the end of this?
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (44:33):
When you can't see an end to it, it's a
very lonely place. And I have a very similar story.
I woke up one day and I was different. Unpacking
it over time, I think we determined I had oh
deed on anxiety that day, I ohdeed my body said,
we are not doing this anymore. The non stop catastrophizing,
(44:57):
from non stop racing for bubble around every corner, the
rituals I would have to do to get through my day,
these are all things I thought that were I thought
were keeping me safe actually, because it's a completely irrational anxiety,
right right, But it was exhausting and my body had
had enough enough. And that's how it told me through
(45:18):
a total nervous breakdown where like you, I couldn't talk,
I couldn't get out of bed, saying I couldn't read,
I couldn't walk, I couldn't watch TV. Everything was too
much stimulus. And in fact, I don't know if this
happened to you. Classical music, which I had grown up
with my entire life because of ballet, was my only
(45:40):
remedy in those times to calm me down and get
me out of my head. Everything else was too much stimulus,
which meant I couldn't watch the news like oh I
I did all the time normally, Suddenly I couldn't. And
so there's definitely a before and after for me, and
like you, therapy and medication and unpacking and the work
(46:03):
has really helped.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah. I also think that artists like us, because we
feel so deeply, our depression is way more intense. I
do believe that because you know, you're taught to remember,
and you can go back in your You know, if
I sat here with you, we could both go back
(46:26):
to that space. Just thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I remember sitting in the chair in the living room
and I remember someone said, can you go to the
corner and get a cart and of milk? And I
was like, no, I can't.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I do remember same thing. In fact, my husband dragged
me out of the house because I'd been in bed
for a good five days, and he said, we're just
going to go to the store. And we went to
the grocery store. And when I tell you, Judy, I
didn't know to turn left or right. That was too
big of a decision for me right let alone, What
(47:01):
do I need? What am I here for? It was
so out of body. The good news is for me,
I knew I needed help right away. There was no like, well,
I can work myself out of this. I knew I
could not, So I didn't wait to get help when
this happened. I think I was forty one or forty
two when it happened, and I got help right away
because it was so severe. I was paralyzed. I was
(47:23):
completely paralyzed.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Alisas a therapist and she kept me out of the hospital.
I mean, she was amazing. We'd only been together for
two and a half years and she she was incredible.
But I remember, I don't know if you had this.
I remember when I finally could leave the apartment and
or I was forced to go, like Judy, were there,
(47:49):
it's so and so's birthday, you know, like a niece
or nephew, and we're gonna go.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
I remember sitting there and I used to always stare
at people and go, what is it like? What is
it like to not think about yes, this or that?
Like I'd be like, so you, I was fascinated.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Like me too, and I was jealous. And I would
look at my colleagues. So the news is a big
trigger for me because I'm always reporting on bad stuff.
It gives me the sense that bad stuff is around
every corner. But obviously it's what I do for a living.
But I would always look at my colleagues, who I
would think, how come they're not taking this home with them?
How come it's so hard for me? And I didn't
(48:28):
know that they were taking it home with them. I
didn't know, like, who's to say they're not on medication
and the therapy just like me. But oh I was
envious because it was exhausting, being exhausting being me?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Did you I felt like I had to tell people
like I told everyone. I was like, I'm going through this, yep.
But you know, I look at my blood work during
that time it is whack job in what beyond? Yes,
I remember I was looking through my medical records it
was like deficient in this deficient in that Oh wow,
(49:07):
everything was completely different in my body from this chemical imbalance.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah right, listen, this is a real thing, and I
this is why I like to talk about anxiety, and
you'll have to book about it in very real ways
because some people say, well, who isn't anxious? Everyone's worried. Okay,
that's not what it is.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
This is not just I'm worried.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Now when people go, oh, yeah, I've been depressed, you know, no,
you don't understand no.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
And you've got to be almost graphic about how much
of a disorder this is then, and then why it's
so important to get to get help, because this is
not something you can just keep living with. It will
break you, right, and it can break you in a
number of ways. It can break you with a breakdown
and hopefully you get help, or it can be much worse.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Did you I remember I'd go to therapy sashis. I
just sat there. I couldn't even talk, but I had
to be somewhere other than my.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Bed in your head, right, right, and.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Right? I remember. I mean I use those tools all
the time, Like you get a feeling and then you
go hmm, no, sorry, you're not doing that to me today.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I'm closing that door instead of opening that door and
running through it. I'm closing that door that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
For me, and also identifying that this is not reality,
this is fear.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Exactly, yeah, exactly. I heard something great. And I don't
give advice because I'm not a doctor, but I do
share what has worked for me and what hasn't. And
I heard this once. It made so much sense. It
said the opposite of being anxious is not being calm,
And in fact, telling someone who's anxious to calm down
is awful because all it makes me do is worry, Like,
(50:48):
why can't I calm down? The opposite of anxious is
being present, and what my anxiety does is take me
out of the present. I'm safe right here, but in
my head, in my anxiety, I am somewhere where I'm
literally in a terrorist attack or my son is in danger.
I'm actually right here, safe, but my anxiety takes me
(51:10):
out of the present. So when I know that's happening,
now I can recognize it. I am not in my present.
Let's get back to my present. That was such a
helpful trick and listen. Not everything works, Like meditation did
not work for me, breathing did not work for me.
I had to go through years of figuring out the
things that would actually help manage my anxiety. And you
(51:33):
can only do that by doing the work and going
to therapy. And I fucking hate Judy. I fucking hate
these TikTok influencers.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Oh please get on.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I can ent your anxiety in five easy steps. No,
you can't. You don't know anything about my anxiety because
you have not you're not a doctor and we haven't talked.
So I really think that that bunk influencer psycho babble
bullshit is really dangerous and I hate people that do
that because you cannot get You cannot fix this on
(52:06):
TikTok right exactly.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And you have to be diagnosed. That's why there are
mental health professionals. Yes, you can't diagnose yourself. It's it's
not I'm a.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Very self aware person. I thought I knew myself really well.
I thought I was doing great. I was not. I
was not.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
I know, you really do get to a point where
all bursts.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
I love. I just love trading these stories. This, This
is my favorite part of this podcast. That you and
I have just traded. Did this happen to you? Did
this haven to you? Because that's how people talk about
real life and there's nothing to be ashamed of, and
we are not alone.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
You know. It's so funny because I did. I did
a benefit for some mental health organization in New York
and I got on stage and I was like, I
have a clinical depression and ADHD and anxiety and and
they were like, yeah, it was just the funniest thing.
They were all just started clapping. I'm like, oh my god,
(53:08):
thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
But that's how there's this great clip. It's kind of
funny and silly. But Shawn Mendes is this is a singer,
popular singer, and he came out about his anxiety and
then he's getting interviewed and this girl in like a
podcast is like, I just want to talk to you
about mental health because I have suffered from anxiety, and
he goes, amazing this, we love this, we love this.
(53:33):
I don't love that you're anxious there or no.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
But it's like you because you can't understand until you've
lived through it.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yes, you know, like you don't get it.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
You don't get it. And that's why you reach out
to those people exactly. You can always you can always
reach out to me if you're having a shitty day,
and I'll get help you.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Oh, same, Judy. And I appreciate that, I.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Really do, because I have my little small list, and yeah,
it's just so fucking important.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
It's so important. Okay, I love that. I love that
for us. I want to do a lightning round before
we go.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Oh boy, I hate these things. Okay, this is no
because this No, I don't really hate them, but it's
that whole being in the moment and not going this
is my first thought. But oh but but but but
but but but you know, yeah, you can answer any
way you want, all right, Okay.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Some of these are just like quiz, like, how many
episodes of World's Dumbest were you on? Oh my god,
I have no idea, I think along mind, yes, how many?
No you guess forty one hundred and fourteen?
Speaker 1 (55:00):
No way, yes, no way. And you know what, we
don't get residuals.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yes, that number, And I was like, holy shit, that's
a lot of shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Like many
of our guests, you are a graduate of a prestigious university,
the School of Law and Order. What was your character's
name on Law and Order?
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Oh fuck, I don't know. I did Law and Order
and Law and Order SVU.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
I know, but in Law and Order as you didn't
have a name. Your character didn't have a name. In
Law and Order you had a name and no. Well
but see I love this because someone outside watching and
be like, how can you not remember you were in
this iconic show? But you've done so much? I get it.
Your name was Deborah Patterson.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Deborah Patterson.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
He already told you he knows nothing about the murder. Okay,
and I love that. This is the best lie around
in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Okay, okay, who's the performer you never got to see
live but wish you had?
Speaker 1 (56:08):
Probably Lenny Bruce.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Oh talk about dangerous comedy. Yeah yeah, I love that. Okay. Finally,
when is iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I hate ice coffee? No, I like, I like coffee
ice cream, but I want my coffee high.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Yeah that's the wrong answer, but.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Okay, okay, ice coffee season is. I'm gonna go mid June.
Shut up.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
See they disagree with you because the answer is year round, Judy,
The answer is year round.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Oh shit, Okay, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
I'm so used to, but I love Massachusetts. I grew
up with Dunkin Donuts. It is a very important part
of my life. It's my culture. It's my religion. Right,
Ice coffee and I yeah, I wanted ice because I
want to drink it fast. I don't want to sip it.
It's not precious.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Oh, I loved I love my fucking hot coffee. I
grew up with wah wah. Have you ever been to
wah wah?
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Of course I love the best.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Wa Wah is the best? Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Well, I love you and I love you.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
You're the greatest, No, you are.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
I love this conversation so much. I loved it so
much too. Thank you. Next week, on Off the Cup,
I live out my fifteen year old SI Cup fantasy,
and I get to talk to Brian Austin Green. I
thought we were going to go in one direction, but man,
did we go so much deeper. You're so wise.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I'm not wise like this is. I'm standing on the
back and the shoulders of many people.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
This is just all the stuff that I've learned. I
love this, I love it. I have so much in here.
But I don't care because this is the this is
the good stuff. Off the Cup is a production of
iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason Choy network. If
you want more, check out the other reason Choice podcasts S,
Politics with Jamel Hill, and Native Land Pod. For Off
(58:07):
the Cup, I am your host, Se Cup. Editing and
sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers are me
Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review
wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or subscribe for new
episodes every Wednesday.
Life is a series of befoors and afters, and then
you become a different person, you know. I remember when
my father died when I was in my twenties, and
definitely a different person after that, and this changed me
so much.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
Welcome to off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
I have known today's guest for I don't know how long,
Like I truly don't know how long. Maybe she can
tell me. But there are times when no one can
contextualize a news story or politics the way a comic can,
and so we in the news business regularly invite comics
(00:40):
on to help put a story in perspective, or make
fun of it or make us laugh through the insanity.
And that is how I got to know her. And
I've always loved her quickness, her passion, her intelligence, her timing,
and how hard she works. She is an Emmy Award
winning comic with stand up specials for Comedy Central and HBO, appearances,
countless television shows including Broad City and Search Party, recurring
(01:04):
roles in All American Girl and the First Lady. She's
done theater, she's written books. There is nothing she hasn't done.
It's Judy Gold welcome to Off the Cup, Judy, thank Youssi.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I'm so happy to be here. You know, I'm a
huge fan.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, we'll say i'm huge fan. When did we meet?
Do you know? I don't remember.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
It's gonna be it's at least ten, maybe fifteen.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I said a master. Or was it at CNN?
Speaker 1 (01:27):
You know, I feel like it was at CNN. Okay,
it feels I remember talking to you at CNN and
you were I don't know. I remember talking to you
in a million places, yeah, a.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Million places in my memory. We have just always known
each other. I know that's not true or possible, and.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
We have we have mutual friends or many people, you know,
like we'rek people, many many.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah. Well, I'm so thrilled that you're here. Do you
in all the things you do? Do you like going
on the news, Like when I would ask you to
come on for some story, did you like doing that?
Speaker 3 (02:05):
You know?
Speaker 1 (02:05):
I do like doing it. It also depends on the host.
So you're great at it because you're a comedy fan
and you're you were a performer as a kid. Yes,
And you're a friend to the lgbt Q community, always
have been friend and supporter you're smart, you're no nonsense,
(02:26):
and it's that is ultimost.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
I like everything you're saying, but it.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Really does depend on who the host is and like
what their intent is. And I think your intent is
always to get, you know, different perspectives on a story
so that people can make a conclusion based on different,
you know, points of view and totally and so and
(02:52):
when it's hey, we're gonna have a comic, we just
want you to be funny and I'm going to mostly
pay attention to this one and then if you could
jab and you know that's not fun because we are
social commentators. We do follow the news, yes, and we're
also and you know you talk about having comics on
(03:14):
panels and stuff. We're the truth tellers. We're not afraid
to tell the truth right right and call people out
and say you're you're Are we allowed to curse on this? Yes? Bullshitting?
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yes, you know, yes, well, And that's why I love
I love having comics on too sort of skewer and
I don't know, get cut right to the core of
a story right in the last business, we have to
dance around it a little bit. We have to be
you know, we have to be polite. We have to,
and you guys, you can, you can go right to
the core and sometimes we just need.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
That, right And I love and I know how much
you appreciate that I do. Yeah, and that is so apparent.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You're so good at that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Well, we don't do politics here mostly, but I just
want to ask broadly for you as a comic. Has
it gotten harder to be funny about politics since the
stakes feel higher? Now?
Speaker 1 (04:09):
You know? Such a good question. I think it's more
difficult when you're enraged. So it's so hard to be
funny when you're enraged. Vulnerability is a huge part of
being funny, because you can be angry when the audience knows,
(04:31):
you know, I connect with her the acoustic sort of vulnerability,
and you can't do it without that vulnerability, which is
why so many people who think they're funny, and not
comics but government officials who think are people running for
(04:51):
office or in office or elected to office, act like
they're funny. You have no idea what it is to
be funny, and there's no funny without the truth. For me, personally,
there has been a huge and you know, I don't
shy away from anything yes, there has been a huge
shift since October seventh. Right, So for me as an
(05:15):
out Jewish Zionist with a nuanced opinion based on fact
experience being in the area meeting with Jews, I'm sorry
Israelis and Palestinians, you know, really knowing, you know been
I mean, these people have never been there. You know,
(05:40):
so many comics are saying I don't want to do
my Jewish material, it's not worth it, and benign Jewish
jokes that you know that we're funny. On October sixth,
then all of a sudden, because I'm a Jew, they're
not funny. It's it's been really, really hard. That's been
(06:00):
the hardest part, you know, And I think about how
every president we have skewered. I mean it's part of
our culture. Yes, every comic, I mean down to I
mean Clinton was a gold mine. George W. Bush was
a gold mine, Carter was a gold mine. Reagan was
(06:22):
a gold mine. You know, everyone laughed because this is
our presence, this is what we do in this country.
We have First Amendment rights. Satire is I think so
important anyway, but you would do it. A benign Trump
joke in twenty sixteen about his hair. They would like
(06:45):
completely turn on, like okay, I'm not even talking about
politics here, I'm.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Talking to somebody, right, Yeah, well, I know everything looks
different after Trump, I know, coming from this or right.
I look back on the Obama years differently now, and
what I said about Obama, I didn't do crazy things.
I didn't do birtherism in that guard, but I was
pretty critical of his agenda. And I remember a long
(07:14):
time ago, you had some you had some words for
for W. M H. You got you got in a
little hot water. Yeah, for w you called him a living,
breathing piece of shit.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
All right, do we have to review this? No?
Speaker 2 (07:28):
But do you look back at that any Do you
look back at those years any differently now? Because Trump
has so changed not just politics, but he's changed the country.
He's changed what oh good guy?
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yes, yes, yeah, because I look back and you know,
I was at a Howard Dean benefit. I didn't even
support Howard Dean, but you know they asked me to
do this benefit, and he was in the lead. And
I really didn't like George W. Bush because of my
you know, LGB two. I was fighting for the right.
(08:04):
I just wanted to be legitimized, you know, as a
human being and live with dignity. And it was just
like cut the shit. But you know, that was at
a function, and that's what the newspaper picked up. And yeah,
it's been so much different because first of all, Trump
(08:25):
thinks he's a fucking Oh I'm allowed to curse. Trump
thinks he's a fucking comedian, and he's a hack you know,
and if you his rallies are just hacky, I'm going
I'm gonna i gotta laugh at the rally two weeks ago.
I'm gonna repeat that. I mean, not even funny, try
to be and you have to have self awareness to
(08:46):
be a funny person. But yes, you know, I think
about how they didn't have a comedian at the White
House correspondence dinner and how lame that was. But yes,
it's really changed. And you know what's really sad, I think,
and I'm sure this is in your industry, comics were
(09:10):
a unified group. We were always had each other's back. Yeah,
no matter what I mean. You know me, I have
friends from every end of the political spectrum. Yeah, it's
not like that anymore.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
It's not like that in my business either. You're absolutely right. Yeah,
we're so bifurcated now in the press that we're on
teams and we're all doing we should all be doing
the same thing, right in journalism, holding power for people
account right, that's it. But now there's the good guys,
the bad guys, this team, that team. It's awful.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
But how does it feel I really want to know,
as a journalist, how does it feel? Well? I watched
Trump say, look at them all, back there, those it's
such an assault on the free press, on you know,
our first first amendment. It's the first one for a reason,
(10:09):
doesn't don't you feel threatened? Like I felt threatened when
he said he was going to investigate SNL. I was like,
it's not learned it, I mean, I'm not.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, it's not that I feel threatened. I have been threatened.
First of all, He's tweeted at me, right, Trump has
tweeted at me my name, thank you, Masel, thank you,
thank you. But I have been threatened. I've been threatened.
You know, CNN has been sent pipe bombs. I've been
threatened at my home and listen, we I got that
(10:40):
before Trump as well, but not in the numbers, not
in the severity and the scariness.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
And the social media of it all.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
And then there's that and we're very public people, right,
we have to be everywhere we're on social media. We
have we all have our different platforms, and so yeah,
that is a really terrible part of my job. And
I hate that it's a part of the job now
and that we all just talk about it matter of factly,
like well, that just comes with it. That should not
come with it.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
But it didn't come with it before.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
Yeah, it didn't. It didn't.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
And it's like, you know, I think back of all
the celebrities who I loved and then you find out
shit about them, like oh really, you know, and and
we didn't have that because you could have your personal
life and your opinions and your political leanings and you
could be a big storm. People could love you and
for your art and then you're like, oh, I hate
(11:37):
that person now, Like it's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
Well, we're so defined by politics now, right, and that's
not how it should be. The center of our universes
should not be politics. It should be our communities, our
friends or family, our work.
Speaker 1 (11:49):
You know. It's funny when my book came out, the yes,
I can say that book about free speech. Yes, the
first review on Amazon was this woman who said, I'm paraphrasing,
but she basically said, do not read this book. She
you know, she's just another lefty. I mean, you know,
(12:10):
I'm not the most lefty, but whatever, but she's just
another blah blah blah, which is exactly the point of
the book. I did enjoy how I did learn a lot,
and I thought she really handled the bill cosby situation.
Like so there was low like I like the book,
but she don't read it.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah that's perfect right, right, as a review
on a book about that is perfect right?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (12:46):
Okay, what kind of kid were you? Let's go back?
What kind of cake?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
God? So, first of all, I mean I think back now,
I was really I said everything. I said everything. I
was like walk none, and I was like why is
everyone to like, why can't we talk about And it
was constant. It was always like Judith, go upstairs, Judith?
(13:09):
You know, but I just made an unto Judith. Everyone
in my family still, yeah, you will always be Judy
to me. That's amazing. Yeah, it's so funny. And that
if they call me Judy, I get really uncomfortable. But
it was always like Judith, stop, you know, shut up.
I definitely I had terrible ADHD that was undiagnosed, but
(13:32):
I really had good coping mechanisms. But yes, I was funny,
very unpopular. I was six feet at thirteen. I got
it bullied. It was like, you know, thank god there
was no social media because I was one of the
most bullied kids. And I think back, thank god I
(13:52):
could go home and go, you know, play the piano,
or go to my room or you know, call my
three friends whatever. I had had a way to escape it,
and these kids have no escape, right I would get
I got a D in self control in fourth grade and.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Would you remember, oh my.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
God, because I had never gotten a D ever ever,
and you know it was all about you know, i'd
get a ninety nine. Why didn't you get a hundred?
You know, it was that kind of yeah. But I
was like I had Spelke's. I was just like and
I was always thinking in joke and funny and I
would always notice shit about people like that no one noticed,
(14:38):
and yeah, I was music has really saved me. I know,
you know you were a dancer, right, yeah, yeah, that
is the one thing I could really focus on. So
I think that learning music and practicing the piano and reading,
you know, like that, I think was the thing that
(15:01):
got me through everything. But yeah, I what did.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You want to be? You didn't want to be a comedian,
did you.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Well? I wanted to be Barber streisand but that wasn't
going to happen.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Why not?
Speaker 1 (15:12):
I mean it was I mean I tried. First of all,
I tried out for the basketball team in seventh grade
and the coach told me I was too tall for
the team and it wouldn't be fair to the other players. Okay, meanwhile,
my son is a Division one basketball player, Okay he is, yes,
And then you know, I joined the band. I was
in the marching band, and you know, very nerdy. I
(15:32):
wanted to be in the school play and they were like,
you're so tall. It was like ridiculous. I even audition
for graduate school at Mason Gross and Bill Asper, who
was the head of the graduate school, said, you know,
you're very talented. You have impeccable comedic timing, but how
do you expect me to cast you too? And I
was like, oh my god. And my mother was like,
ye'all show him. But I had this agency I had
(15:57):
something in me even as a child that was like
you're gonna You're gonna get through that. I don't know
what it was, but I definitely felt awkward and humiliated
on a daily basis. You know when I feel that now,
you know, you when you recognize feelings from your childhood
is when I go on a step and repeat for
(16:17):
something and they're like, you know, sometimes if there's a
big star there, they just treat you like you're just
human waste. So those kind of things. I hate going
to premieres and stuff like that, and I'm always surprised
when we're like, Judy, look over here, Judy.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
You know, I know that feeling too.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
You know, it's the worst. Yeah, but I was definitely funny.
I was, I don't know, yeah, And I would always
be like why is everyone depressed? Or like why are
we not talking about mister elephant right there?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yeah? And then you go to you go to Rutgers
and you do stand up on a dare right? Did
you love it immediately?
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Oh? My god? Okay, First of all, I was a
music major. I was gonna I wanted to be. My
parents really wanted me, especially my father, to be a
music teacher, but I knew I wanted to perform, like
you asked me as a kid. It was like I
just wanted to be on the stage. Yeah, yeah, And
I loved you know, I would watch so many variety shows,
(17:23):
like I loved Tony Fields, and I loved Joan Rivers,
and I loved Philis Diller and Jean Carroll and Moms
Maybee and I would just be like drawn to these
women who just said shit that you weren't supposed to say.
And yeah, so it was Secret Sanna's and my Secret
Sanna sent me a note under the door, and we
(17:45):
did it very We were very creative with our Secret Sannah,
which now should be what secret seasonal whatever, you know,
Secret Winter. Yeah. I felt completely assaulted as a Jew
that I was playing secrets. So anyway, so he put
this note on under my door that said you have
to do five to ten minutes of stand up and
(18:07):
use everyone who lives on the floor as fodder for material.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
And I had a great challenge. I love that.
Speaker 1 (18:15):
It was like I took it. So I didn't go
to class. I was sitting there just writing jokes. There
was a funny kid on the floors, like let's let's
work this. I mean it was and I remember standing
there and you know, everyone was doing shit, but I
they said, okay, now Judy's gonna do And I had
(18:37):
a microphone and I had my jokes and I did
my first joke and I took it so seriously, like
I was like nervous and stuff. And I got a
laugh and I Am not kidding. It was like my
body came, you know, came out and was looking down
(18:57):
and was like I never had that feeling about anything,
and I was like, this is what I'm meant to do.
And that was it. That was it. And you know,
even today, when I get on the subway with my notebook,
I'm going to be sixty two. Well probably i'll be
sixty two when this airs, but you know, I'm sixty
(19:19):
two and I get on this. I get on this
subway with my notebook going down to the comedy seller.
I can't wait. I can't wait to try out a
new joke. It's like I still love it that much.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah great. I mean for me, the writing is like that.
For me, I'm a writer, and I you know, TV
sort of came with it, but but all I want
to do is write and it's something I have to
do to breathe. It's like breathing right, and you feel
you and I don't do it.
Speaker 1 (19:46):
Do you don't you sleep better when you write? Yes? Same? No?
Speaker 2 (19:52):
I mean it really does impact and impacts my mental
health and impacts so much because it is something I
have to do. And real writers know that, know that's feeling.
So I completely get it. And I completely get the
rush of feeling seen and heard and appreciated and talented.
Right when you feel like, RW, I'm talented at something
(20:13):
and everyone sees.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
It right, and you know, we get we get immediate gratification.
You do yeah or not right, and you write and
you probably I know because I write too. You're like, yeah,
I think this is good, you know, like we're it's
like a joke. It's like I'm like this is hilarious.
(20:35):
And now I got on stage and nothing, and I'm like, really,
you know, Yeah, did you study English or writing in school?
Speaker 2 (20:46):
No? I was writing. My mother was an English teacher,
and so I grew up grew up in a very
verbal house and where you know, she used all the
correct words all the time, and so I was writing
books at like six and seven. They weren't good, and
I was writing novels, you know, because I just loved it.
That was my creative outlet and it was so natural
(21:06):
to me. I never took classes. I got to college
and I was an art history major, thinking I would
I would write in that space somehow, but no, I
never took a class. Never.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, I mean I take a comedy class. I mean
it's in you right. It's so funny because I was
talking to someone about, you know, people who are like
art history majors or music majors or whatever, and that
people are like, eh, you know, like unless you're like
finance or whatever. And it's like, do you realize that
(21:42):
art is a vehicle to learn every everything everything. You
learn about the history of the world through art history,
you know, music history, you know what the hell was
going on?
Speaker 2 (21:55):
You know, math history.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I mean it's ever so, yeah, we don't appreciate the
arts here.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
No, And I get defensive of that sometimes when someone's like, no,
what'd you do with that degree? This learned a lot. Yeah,
I learned a lot with that degree. Well. I once
read that you said a female comic can't be hot looking.
Men are not going to listen to you. If you are.
Do you think that's changed?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yes, like Raser, right, Nikki is very hot.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Rachel even, I don't want to say even take that back.
Not even Amy Schumer became famous, famously funny for talking
about looks and women and the idea of that, the
idea of a woman's look and comedy.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
And I wonder, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
If it's changed at all, because I'm sure that was
true at one time.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah. So because Jeane Carrol, who really was the first
real female stand up in fact, you know, men would
steal jokes from her. She was beautiful. But if you
look at all the women comedians from the fifties, sixties, seventies,
(23:17):
they're eighties. I mean, there was always a disclaimer in
the very beginning of their set, Like Jean Carrol, I know,
I gained a little wake higher. Oh why didn't she
get that?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Well?
Speaker 1 (23:29):
You know, even with Joan, I know I'm a woman
and I should be, you know, ironing my husband's handkerchiefs.
You know, there was always some self deprecating thing to
put the audience at ease, to say, I know my
place now, can you listen to my act?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
Wow?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And I don't think that we have that situation anymore.
And it is thanks to I mean to all the
woman who came before and opened the door and the
ceiling for people to say, you know, fuck you, I'm hot.
(24:09):
I mean, if you go back to the eighties when
I started huge shoulder pads, men's jackets, very asexual, very
just listen to my work. Just listen to what I'm
saying instead of yeah, meanwhile, these guys can look like fuck.
I remember I fucking slops with their sweatpant I remember
(24:32):
I was a Catch rising star and Adam Sandler must
have been eighteen nineteen years old, and he and I'm
sitting standing there with Lewis Randa, who now runs the
New York Comedy Club. But he was the he was
the first. He was a bartender at Catch and then
he became the booker. And he's standing there and Adam
(24:53):
goes on and he's funny, but he's like, it looks
like he just got out of bed, didn't brush his teeth,
hasn't done low dream three months, you know, yeah, And
he and Lewis goes He's going to be a star,
and I'm like.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
How can't even clean his pants?
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I know, And if a woman went on like that. Yeah, right,
forget it. There's always been but you know, what's this.
This happened over the pandemic. So women when I started,
and up until probably the twenty first century, women never
worked together. We were never put on the same show.
So if they had a woman on the show, it
(25:32):
was one. And when we went on the road, we
went and had to share condos with two guys we
don't know, or three guys. It was. It was really hell. Yeah.
And there was a club in Soho called Comedy You
Grand on fifty five Grand Street and every Thursday night
(25:53):
they had the way they advertised it was all female comedians.
I was like, you know, we're not a circuit. You
don't have to double down on the and Thursday night
it was and we got five bucks. But it was
all women. We didn't have to follow some fucking you know, hey,
my dick, and our next act is a is a woman.
(26:15):
You know, they would always introduce us our next act
is female, or they'd be like, our next act is gigantic,
and it's like I used to just get on stage
and give it right back, like that was our MC.
He's got balls and a cock, and uh, you know
I gave it right back to them. But so this
night was all women and we did a reunion over
(26:40):
the pandemic on Zoom and this is where I, you know,
met Joy Behar and Susie Esmond and you know I
just said, LORI kill Martin, want to psykes? You know,
it was just all these Kathy Ladman, I mean, they
were just it was amazing. And Joy said on this
Zoom if it wasn't for those Thursday nights, I would
(27:00):
have quit doing stand up wow, because it was so
it was just like okay, And so this me too
thing came out and part of me was like, oh good,
and the other part was like, all right. I mean,
you know, I've had to listen to so much shit
and they shouldn't behave like that, but they've gotten away
(27:22):
with it. I call it out all the time.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
But when do you think of what do you think
of Matt Rife?
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Hell, I mean, he's a good looking guy, right who
does rape jokes?
Speaker 4 (27:37):
So yeah, and crowd it's not I think he's agreed.
There's so many the rules change, Essie. Like we used
to go on the road, we would say we had
no computers.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
We were completely isolated. We had no phone. You couldn't
use the phone in the hotel because it would eat
up your entire salary for the week. We used to
go on the road to develop our act, just to
be if you if you were the feature act, you
got to do thirty thirty five minutes. And that's how
we and then we came back to the city with
a new six minutes, new eight minutes to get on
(28:18):
a late night show. And then once you were on
some even cable show like A and He's even the Improver,
Caroline's Comedy or VH one stand up Spotlight. That's how
you got club work from working on your act.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
Really developed, and you'd go out with this little seed
and you'd come back with a huge bit and it
was the most exciting thing. And people don't do that anymore.
And so Matt Rife is an example of, Hey, let
me get a lot of followers on social and then
I'm gonna pack the clubs. But I really don't know
(28:58):
this craft that well. But I'm really good looking, and
the girls love even like it's so infuriating, you know,
these it's all about your followers, and so I feel
like they go to these clubs and they see these
people and a lot of times club owners say, you know,
I had this. This woman had a viral video and
I had her in and she sold out two shows.
(29:20):
And then nine months later I booked her and no
one showed up. It's like, yeah, you have to do
the work right right. So, and they think I'm gonna
make a funny video. I know how to do an
hour in a club.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
No, you don't. No, do you think Nate BARGETSI is
more of the old school. I'm going to work on
these jokes for a really long time and try him
out everywhere.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
I think he's one of the Yeah. I mean, you know,
I look at him. I'm like white guy boy, you know,
like I can I like really edgy, edgy comedy.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah, so he's very clean.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Yeah, it's just like, okay, I got it. But I'm
just I love clubs. I love that dark, dingy dangerous.
I love dangerous.
Speaker 2 (30:06):
That's the sit of that. Is is a television a
sound studio And you've done so much TV as an actor,
right is do you see that as something completely separate
for you? Is that a completely different muscle or is
that sort of building.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
On one hundred percent I mean, I've taken so many
I've studied acting so and I did Shakespeare in the
Park and and you know, I love acting, but it's
a whole other muscle. And I remember when I did
when I got cast on All American Girl, right, and
I remember going, yeah. I remember thinking, oh my god,
(30:44):
I got a sitcom. I don't have to do stand
up anymore. And I remember thinking I couldn't wait. I'm
reading other people's lines. It's so milk toast. I was like,
I gotta get on stage. I gotta be you know,
I gotta be free. I couldn't. And they used to
be like, why are you going? You know, Margaret and
b D and everyone would be like, you know, we'd
(31:06):
all be having dinner. I'm like, I gotta go. I
got a spot at this comedy store. And they'd be like,
what is wrong with you?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
And I'm like why this should be enough?
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Yeah, they used to call me the leopard. Everyone, even
Joy and Suit like why do you do so many spots?
I'm like, I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
And it was too safe. TV was too safe.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
And it's controlled by other people, you know, Yeah, I don't.
I mean, I'm sure you've had this where you have
an executive there while you're doing your show who shows
up and then they stand in the corner like yep,
just whispering, and you're like, do you want me to
pack my things up? Now?
Speaker 2 (31:40):
It's like yeah, yeah, this is That's how it was
during our like the rehearsal, and they'd be standing there
and you're just going, I, yeah, I I have.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
A Let me get home and get a suitcase and
I'll get rid of my dresser, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Like yeah, and comfortable.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
Right, it's awful, and stand up is and when you're
good at it and you have control and you feel
so comfortable, and that takes at least ten years, I'm sorry,
to really get up there and go I got this.
Nothing's gonna throw me. And the reason I'm so comfortable
(32:21):
is I've done the shittiest, crappiest venues in the middle
of nowhere, and it taught me. Every every set should
teach you something.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
And we have this in common in our businesses as well.
Where As a woman, you reach an age and you
are told not unsubtly right, you might want to move on,
or you know you're too old for an anchor position, right,
And I read that Comedy Central once told your manager
(32:57):
that you had asked out of having a special, which,
which is like ridiculous. Does not happen to men, right never?
And while your business is I mean, I guess it's
partly a visual business, but it's really not. It's your material.
And my business is partly a visual business, but it's
also my brain and what's coming out of my mouth.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Yeah, if you're gonna yeah, so.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
It shouldn't matter, but it does.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
I haven't. And I look at these guys, and you know,
Lewis Black, who's an old old friend life. He's a
fucking he's an angel, he's the greatest guy. He's brilliant,
he's so good, he's so good, and he's just on
the right side of everything. They'll never say, now you're
(33:45):
too old, No, no, right, right, you know right. The
people in mid look at Rickles?
Speaker 2 (33:52):
How old was Rickles? When he was?
Speaker 1 (33:55):
Right? John stew I started with John Stewart, you know,
and Ray Romano. These were all the guys I started with.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Did you work with Brad Garrett at all?
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Oh my god, Yes, I love Brad so much.
Speaker 2 (34:10):
We've had him on the pod.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
Yeah, he's the best and you know, Phil Rosenthal wrote
a pilot for the two of us to play brother
and sister.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Stop it.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
But yeah, but no one Netflix didn't pick it up.
And yeah, it would have been so good, hilarious. It
was it was like you read a script and you're like,
oh my god, I can see that.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Oh my gosh, Okay, let's get.
Speaker 1 (34:32):
That be hilarious. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Can I tell you I loved The First Lady so
much because it's all the things, it's you know, it's politics,
and it was so well done. And you play Elizabeth
Fisher read in the First Lady. She was a real
person who was very close to Eleanor Roosevelt. Yeah, it
was her personal attorney, and yeah, she was a suffragist,
She was a lawyer, advisor of Eleanor's. She was she
(34:57):
was openly gay. How did this cred a Ball role
come to you?
Speaker 1 (35:02):
I auditioned and I did I audition or did Yeah?
I think I auditioned and I got it and esther
lape who was my girlfriend, my partner, my lover in
the I hate the term lover love, but that's what
they said. Uh, we were in week week. A lot
(35:25):
of we ended up in the on the cutting room floor,
and when we were doing this, there were scenes where
we're obviously in this women's salon in our apartment with
Eleanor there, and this is really where she became a
huge feminist and it was a huge part of her
(35:46):
life and an advocate for women. And you know, the
director really wanted us to be you know, we would
be touching now, don't you know. They they stopped that,
and they cut along a lot of the scenes that
really affirmed her homo sexuality or bisexuality or whatever, and
(36:09):
so that was kind of upsetting, but I loved I
loved it. It was such a you know, a period
piece and just and what women women actually, Yeah, and
it was like so women heavy. And you know, I've
always loved Eleanor Roosevelt. And my aunt, who's ninety five,
(36:30):
she went to she used to go to this camp
over the summer. My grandmother and her would go. I
don't I think it was I don't know it was
in Poughkeepsie, maybe, I don't know. And there's a picture
of her with Eleanor and they would go to these
learning sessions. But you know, you read about her. I
played her actually in Clinton the musical, which because Hillary
(36:55):
was you know, obsessed with her, but she was, I
mean talk about changing the that job of the first
lady and being independent and writing, you know, she won't
every day sort.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
Of born out of his affair and right feeling right,
like having that catalyst say well, okay, if I have
to stay in this marriage, I'm going to have we're
gonna have separate lives and my separate life is going
to be full and rich.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
And ye yes, yeah, I really, but it's like we
know that to you know, you look at like when
I talk to young gay kids, huh that are so entitled.
You know, I don't want to hear your stories about
(37:46):
whatever and whatever you know, and I want to say,
you know you're fighting so the people use the right pronoun,
but you wouldn't be fighting this if thirty years ago
my friends were not sick and dying like right, you
have no idea And so that's what I also think
(38:10):
is just so upsetting about. I mean, I sound like
an old lady, but it's true. You know your history.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
After the break, Judy and I swap anxiety stories. You've
talked openly about mental health, so violeence why I'm doing
(38:40):
this podcast. It's not a mental health podcast, but what
I wanted was to create a space where you could
dip in and out of mental health and talk about
anxiety or depression or whatever you're going to through naturally
in conversation. And so I was wondering if you could
talk a little bit about anxiety, depression, those periods.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Okay, well it's so interesting because I was just thinking.
I thought. I just thought the other day, if I
could get all the time back where I spent sitting
on a sofa being anxious or depressed or not really
(39:21):
functioning emotion Like, if I could have that time back, god,
you know, I would have so I would live for
so much longer, you know. But so I did have.
I had ADHD that was undiagnosed, and it was caught.
My mother was constantly Judith the way, Yeah you're shaking
(39:42):
a leg, and I calmed down, your hypa, go upstairs,
your hypa, your hypa. No one knew what it was.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
No.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
We would have reading time in school where we had
everyone had a piece of carpet and you would sit
in the corner and read. And I couldn't do it
like I couldn't do it like there was, and all
I wanted to do was read and be able to
sit there. But I just mu was stare at people
and my mind would wander and I'd read the same
(40:09):
sentence over and now and like I didn't know. And
that's why I think the fact that I read music
helped with my reading comprehension. Yeah, and I did read
a few books, but not as many. Like that's one
of my biggest regrets is that I didn't read all
the books in high school that I I mean, I
am a voracious reader now, but it took me. Okay,
(40:31):
so I feel like then I got to college, and
I was always bloody fingers, you know, really like every
bit of anxiety. I smoked pot all the time because
I needed to rest my brain. Yeah, so I definitely
(40:52):
did that. I never liked really drinking, but I'm kind
of enjoying now anyway. And so I was always really anxious.
And then I when I was in my twenties, I
went to some doctor and I did this test, like
a written test, and he said, you have ad HD
(41:13):
and OCD and that that is why you have been
able to function because you're OCD sometimes over steps your
add where you're like, if I don't do this, I'm
gonna be really mad at myself. I mean, I got oc.
I missed a gig because I was like, I have
(41:35):
to run five miles to day. I have to run
and there was a snowstorm coming and I knew if
I had left on you know anyway, So I had
lived with all this anxiety. I went on meds in
my thirties. I was so afraid to go on meds
because I thought I'm not gonna be funny. And then
in twenty ten, I woke up. Lisa and I were
(41:56):
in I had just done a show at the Theater
and DC and it was January second, I think or
January first, and we were in a hotel and I
woke up and I said, something's wrong. And I didn't
know what it was, but I was in a panic
and like I couldn't talk. I could not talk, and
I basically I had this major, massive depression, which you
(42:24):
would call a nervous breakdown, I guess, and that definitely
changed me. You know, life is a series of befoors
and afters, and then you become a different person, you know.
I remember when my father died when I was in
my twenties and definitely a different person after that. And
this changed me so much, and it took years, like
(42:48):
two and a half years or so for me to feel.
Speaker 2 (42:53):
Normal.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
It's my biggest fear that it'll happen again. But what
I learned was I had diurnal depression, which was when
the sun went down, I felt relief. I wasn't normal,
but I felt relief. I could eat a little bit,
but I couldn't nap. I couldn't take a nap because
I was afraid to wake up, because every time I
(43:16):
woke up, I was terrified and panicked. And yeah, and
I realized I had that my whole life, like it
to a certain degree. When the alarm would go off
in the morning, it was like, and I feel that
I reach out to people I'm you know, I say, hey,
(43:38):
not feeling I know now through cognitive behavioral therapy and
regular therapy, but cognitive behavioral therapy really gives you a
toolbox that is invaluable. But I do. I recognize it,
and I'll say to Alisa, now, today's not good. I
got to just get to the night time. You know,
(44:01):
I recognize it, and I feel so much for other
people who suffer like I. I just want to say,
it's it's the darkest of darkness, It's beyond like and
I you get to this place, I'm sure you've been
there where you you don't commit suicide, but you know why,
(44:22):
you know intellectually, Oh, this is why people end their lives.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Yeah, it feels hopeless. How does this end? When? Where's
the end of this?
Speaker 1 (44:32):
Right?
Speaker 2 (44:33):
When you can't see an end to it, it's a
very lonely place. And I have a very similar story.
I woke up one day and I was different. Unpacking
it over time, I think we determined I had oh
deed on anxiety that day, I ohdeed my body said,
we are not doing this anymore. The non stop catastrophizing,
(44:57):
from non stop racing for bubble around every corner, the
rituals I would have to do to get through my day,
these are all things I thought that were I thought
were keeping me safe actually, because it's a completely irrational anxiety,
right right, But it was exhausting and my body had
had enough enough. And that's how it told me through
(45:18):
a total nervous breakdown where like you, I couldn't talk,
I couldn't get out of bed, saying I couldn't read,
I couldn't walk, I couldn't watch TV. Everything was too
much stimulus. And in fact, I don't know if this
happened to you. Classical music, which I had grown up
with my entire life because of ballet, was my only
(45:40):
remedy in those times to calm me down and get
me out of my head. Everything else was too much stimulus,
which meant I couldn't watch the news like oh I
I did all the time normally, Suddenly I couldn't. And
so there's definitely a before and after for me, and
like you, therapy and medication and unpacking and the work
(46:03):
has really helped.
Speaker 1 (46:05):
Yeah. I also think that artists like us, because we
feel so deeply, our depression is way more intense. I
do believe that because you know, you're taught to remember,
and you can go back in your You know, if
I sat here with you, we could both go back
(46:26):
to that space. Just thinking about it.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
I remember sitting in the chair in the living room
and I remember someone said, can you go to the
corner and get a cart and of milk? And I
was like, no, I can't.
Speaker 2 (46:40):
I do remember same thing. In fact, my husband dragged
me out of the house because I'd been in bed
for a good five days, and he said, we're just
going to go to the store. And we went to
the grocery store. And when I tell you, Judy, I
didn't know to turn left or right. That was too
big of a decision for me right let alone, What
(47:01):
do I need? What am I here for? It was
so out of body. The good news is for me,
I knew I needed help right away. There was no like, well,
I can work myself out of this. I knew I
could not, So I didn't wait to get help when
this happened. I think I was forty one or forty
two when it happened, and I got help right away
because it was so severe. I was paralyzed. I was
(47:23):
completely paralyzed.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Alisas a therapist and she kept me out of the hospital.
I mean, she was amazing. We'd only been together for
two and a half years and she she was incredible.
But I remember, I don't know if you had this.
I remember when I finally could leave the apartment and
or I was forced to go, like Judy, were there,
(47:49):
it's so and so's birthday, you know, like a niece
or nephew, and we're gonna go.
Speaker 2 (47:53):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
I remember sitting there and I used to always stare
at people and go, what is it like? What is
it like to not think about yes, this or that?
Like I'd be like, so you, I was fascinated.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Like me too, and I was jealous. And I would
look at my colleagues. So the news is a big
trigger for me because I'm always reporting on bad stuff.
It gives me the sense that bad stuff is around
every corner. But obviously it's what I do for a living.
But I would always look at my colleagues, who I
would think, how come they're not taking this home with them?
How come it's so hard for me? And I didn't
(48:28):
know that they were taking it home with them. I
didn't know, like, who's to say they're not on medication
and the therapy just like me. But oh I was
envious because it was exhausting, being exhausting being me?
Speaker 1 (48:42):
Did you I felt like I had to tell people
like I told everyone. I was like, I'm going through this, yep.
But you know, I look at my blood work during
that time it is whack job in what beyond? Yes,
I remember I was looking through my medical records it
was like deficient in this deficient in that Oh wow,
(49:07):
everything was completely different in my body from this chemical imbalance.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Yeah right, listen, this is a real thing, and I
this is why I like to talk about anxiety, and
you'll have to book about it in very real ways
because some people say, well, who isn't anxious? Everyone's worried. Okay,
that's not what it is.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
Now.
Speaker 2 (49:29):
This is not just I'm worried.
Speaker 1 (49:30):
Now when people go, oh, yeah, I've been depressed, you know, no,
you don't understand no.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
And you've got to be almost graphic about how much
of a disorder this is then, and then why it's
so important to get to get help, because this is
not something you can just keep living with. It will
break you, right, and it can break you in a
number of ways. It can break you with a breakdown
and hopefully you get help, or it can be much worse.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Did you I remember I'd go to therapy sashis. I
just sat there. I couldn't even talk, but I had
to be somewhere other than my.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Bed in your head, right, right, and.
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Right? I remember. I mean I use those tools all
the time, Like you get a feeling and then you
go hmm, no, sorry, you're not doing that to me today.
Speaker 2 (50:17):
I'm closing that door instead of opening that door and
running through it. I'm closing that door that's a good one.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
For me, and also identifying that this is not reality,
this is fear.
Speaker 2 (50:27):
Exactly, yeah, exactly. I heard something great. And I don't
give advice because I'm not a doctor, but I do
share what has worked for me and what hasn't. And
I heard this once. It made so much sense. It
said the opposite of being anxious is not being calm,
And in fact, telling someone who's anxious to calm down
is awful because all it makes me do is worry, Like,
(50:48):
why can't I calm down? The opposite of anxious is
being present, and what my anxiety does is take me
out of the present. I'm safe right here, but in
my head, in my anxiety, I am somewhere where I'm
literally in a terrorist attack or my son is in danger.
I'm actually right here, safe, but my anxiety takes me
(51:10):
out of the present. So when I know that's happening,
now I can recognize it. I am not in my present.
Let's get back to my present. That was such a
helpful trick and listen. Not everything works, Like meditation did
not work for me, breathing did not work for me.
I had to go through years of figuring out the
things that would actually help manage my anxiety. And you
(51:33):
can only do that by doing the work and going
to therapy. And I fucking hate Judy. I fucking hate
these TikTok influencers.
Speaker 1 (51:42):
Oh please get on.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
I can ent your anxiety in five easy steps. No,
you can't. You don't know anything about my anxiety because
you have not you're not a doctor and we haven't talked.
So I really think that that bunk influencer psycho babble
bullshit is really dangerous and I hate people that do
that because you cannot get You cannot fix this on
(52:06):
TikTok right exactly.
Speaker 1 (52:08):
And you have to be diagnosed. That's why there are
mental health professionals. Yes, you can't diagnose yourself. It's it's
not I'm a.
Speaker 2 (52:20):
Very self aware person. I thought I knew myself really well.
I thought I was doing great. I was not. I
was not.
Speaker 1 (52:27):
I know, you really do get to a point where
all bursts.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
I love. I just love trading these stories. This, This
is my favorite part of this podcast. That you and
I have just traded. Did this happen to you? Did
this haven to you? Because that's how people talk about
real life and there's nothing to be ashamed of, and
we are not alone.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
You know. It's so funny because I did. I did
a benefit for some mental health organization in New York
and I got on stage and I was like, I
have a clinical depression and ADHD and anxiety and and
they were like, yeah, it was just the funniest thing.
They were all just started clapping. I'm like, oh my god,
(53:08):
thank you.
Speaker 2 (53:08):
But that's how there's this great clip. It's kind of
funny and silly. But Shawn Mendes is this is a singer,
popular singer, and he came out about his anxiety and
then he's getting interviewed and this girl in like a
podcast is like, I just want to talk to you
about mental health because I have suffered from anxiety, and
he goes, amazing this, we love this, we love this.
(53:33):
I don't love that you're anxious there or no.
Speaker 1 (53:35):
But it's like you because you can't understand until you've
lived through it.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Yes, you know, like you don't get it.
Speaker 1 (53:43):
You don't get it. And that's why you reach out
to those people exactly. You can always you can always
reach out to me if you're having a shitty day,
and I'll get help you.
Speaker 2 (53:52):
Oh, same, Judy. And I appreciate that, I.
Speaker 1 (53:55):
Really do, because I have my little small list, and yeah,
it's just so fucking important.
Speaker 2 (54:02):
It's so important. Okay, I love that. I love that
for us. I want to do a lightning round before
we go.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Oh boy, I hate these things. Okay, this is no
because this No, I don't really hate them, but it's
that whole being in the moment and not going this
is my first thought. But oh but but but but
but but but you know, yeah, you can answer any
way you want, all right, Okay.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Some of these are just like quiz, like, how many
episodes of World's Dumbest were you on? Oh my god,
I have no idea, I think along mind, yes, how many?
No you guess forty one hundred and fourteen?
Speaker 1 (55:00):
No way, yes, no way. And you know what, we
don't get residuals.
Speaker 2 (55:06):
Yes, that number, And I was like, holy shit, that's
a lot of shows. Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. Like many
of our guests, you are a graduate of a prestigious university,
the School of Law and Order. What was your character's
name on Law and Order?
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Oh fuck, I don't know. I did Law and Order
and Law and Order SVU.
Speaker 2 (55:30):
I know, but in Law and Order as you didn't
have a name. Your character didn't have a name. In
Law and Order you had a name and no. Well
but see I love this because someone outside watching and
be like, how can you not remember you were in
this iconic show? But you've done so much? I get it.
Your name was Deborah Patterson.
Speaker 1 (55:49):
Deborah Patterson.
Speaker 3 (55:50):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (55:52):
He already told you he knows nothing about the murder. Okay,
and I love that. This is the best lie around
in the entire world.
Speaker 2 (56:01):
Okay, okay, who's the performer you never got to see
live but wish you had?
Speaker 1 (56:08):
Probably Lenny Bruce.
Speaker 2 (56:10):
Oh talk about dangerous comedy. Yeah yeah, I love that. Okay. Finally,
when is iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (56:18):
I hate ice coffee? No, I like, I like coffee
ice cream, but I want my coffee high.
Speaker 2 (56:28):
Yeah that's the wrong answer, but.
Speaker 1 (56:29):
Okay, okay, ice coffee season is. I'm gonna go mid June.
Shut up.
Speaker 2 (56:42):
See they disagree with you because the answer is year round, Judy,
The answer is year round.
Speaker 1 (56:46):
Oh shit, Okay, I don't like it.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
I'm so used to, but I love Massachusetts. I grew
up with Dunkin Donuts. It is a very important part
of my life. It's my culture. It's my religion. Right,
Ice coffee and I yeah, I wanted ice because I
want to drink it fast. I don't want to sip it.
It's not precious.
Speaker 1 (57:06):
Oh, I loved I love my fucking hot coffee. I
grew up with wah wah. Have you ever been to
wah wah?
Speaker 2 (57:12):
Of course I love the best.
Speaker 1 (57:14):
Wa Wah is the best? Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2 (57:16):
Well, I love you and I love you.
Speaker 1 (57:18):
You're the greatest, No, you are.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
I love this conversation so much. I loved it so
much too. Thank you. Next week, on Off the Cup,
I live out my fifteen year old SI Cup fantasy,
and I get to talk to Brian Austin Green. I
thought we were going to go in one direction, but man,
did we go so much deeper. You're so wise.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I'm not wise like this is. I'm standing on the
back and the shoulders of many people.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
This is just all the stuff that I've learned. I
love this, I love it. I have so much in here.
But I don't care because this is the this is
the good stuff. Off the Cup is a production of
iHeart Podcasts as part of the Reason Choy network. If
you want more, check out the other reason Choice podcasts S,
Politics with Jamel Hill, and Native Land Pod. For Off
(58:07):
the Cup, I am your host, Se Cup. Editing and
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Host
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