This week, S.E. chats with National Treasure and The Hangover star Justin Bartha! S.E. and Justin find they have a LOT in common, including a shared hometown — at the same time — in Michigan. Justin talks about the lengths he went to follow Robert De Niro into the business, his first big break in — and the fallout from — the much-maligned movie Gigli and how he carved a surprising path forward. He shares his own mental health journey and how he's able to keep Hollywood at a healthy distance, even if it impacts his career. There's also a very fun Hangover themed lightning round, so stay tuned! Justin's new movie, Nuked, is available to stream starting July 11.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You reached out to me at a time where I
was at an odd you know, mentally, I was at
a kind of a dark spot. Talking about myself seemed
like the worst possible literally a nightmare, which it always
kind of has been.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
We have a terrific guest today. I'm I'm a big fan.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Of his work.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But also in prepping for this interview, I discovered we
have an uncanny amount in common, like spooky and we'll
get into it, but you know him as as Riley
Pool from the National Treasure film series, Doug Billings in
the Hangover trilogy. He's starred on TV shows like The
New Normal and the Good Fight, and he's made his
(00:47):
mark on stage and plays like Lend Me a Tenor
and All New People.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's Justin Bartha. Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thank you for having me Esse. I was telling you before,
I'm a big fan. I've been watching you on Bill
Maher for many years.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Okay, well that's our first and that's our first uncanny connection.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It is I'm really curious about these connections.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, this one's not spooky, it's just I was on
Bill Maher with Zach Galifanakis. Okay, you know who's wonderful
and quest and I remember in the after party being
a little cold and he gave me his his jacket
and just adult. So we'll talk about I want to
talk about him. That's one very small cross old.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Okay, Okay, there's more, there's more, there's more.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I can't First of all, I just can't tell you
how how happy National Treasure has made me in my life.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh that's sweet, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I watched those two movies like all the time because
I have anxiety, so I only watch things I've already seen.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
For the most part. Okay, okay, both.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The National Treasures are so good and I can't wait
to watch them with my son.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
How old is your son?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
He's ten?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
He okay, he was born the same year your daughter
was born, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, yea, okay, okay. We're also we're both forty six.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Okay, okay, yeah, soon to be forty seven over here.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah yeah, okay, okay, So forty.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Six and my daughter's eleven.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Now when's your and he was December?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, got it? Okay, so we're in similar experiences.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I mean, okay, Zach has.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Given me his jacket also, so there you go.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I also lived in West Bloomfield. Shut up, Okay, yeah,
so how did I not know that? How did I
not know? You did?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I didn't know because you're okay, you're born in Florida,
but you moved to West Bloomfield at like.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Eight, yeah, eight or nine?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, well we're the same age. I lived there ten
to thirteen.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
What. I went to Orchard Lake Middle School and then
I went to West Bloomfield High School.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Correct, right, okay, okay, where you go? Well?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I went to Doherty Middle which was behind my house.
I lived on Swan Lake Drive, which was Swallow, Swan
Lake and Walnut.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah you know it's here in another connection. This is
gonna be so brual. But in Florida, my elementary school
was called Doherty Elementary.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Oh my god, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay, wait wait, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So I go. I go to Doherty.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And then because I had just moved to Michigan, I
kind of tested out and they put me in a
charter school called Roosevelt Okay, okay, and then I went
to Country Day.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh, I know, Country Day, of course you do of
course you.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Sixth and half of seventh, and then I moved. But
I dance at Geiger Ballet Academy.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Sure I knew Guygery.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, God, oh my god. Which was in that like
strip mall fantastic? Country?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Did Country Day? Did I know? Did Chris Webber the
basketball go to Country Day? Yeah? Because then he went.
I was in sixth Cranbrook, right, Yes, that was the
fancy track. I wasn't. It's because of people like you
that everyone thinks I'm spoiled.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I went to public school all the way through, and
whenever I say West Boomfot, they go, oh, West Bloomfield.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I know, I get the same thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But I do make a distinction between Country Day and Cranbrook.
Cranbrook was so I had friends at Cranbrook. It was
so artsy, it was so pretentious. It was a different thing.
Country Day was like athletic and kind of yeah yeah,
yeah kind.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I was always jealous of the Country Day experience, and
then Cranbrook felt like I just took my family actually
because I moved out of Michigan for college to go
to New York, but my family I took back there
a few years back for the first time, and we
visited Cranbrook and I was like, wait, I had never
(04:41):
been to Cranbrook and I was like walking through there,
I was like, this shit is incredible beautiful. It's beyond it.
It's so beautiful, and I was like, I cannot believe.
I guess my parents like kept me away from that
experience so I wouldn't be overly jealous. But I remember
like driving by cram Brook once in a while and
it's like behind you know, these trees and you can
(05:04):
see it. It's like beyond amazing. I love Michigan so much.
That's me too.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And I just took my husband because he had never
been to Michigan. I just took him to Macana Island.
Did you ever get up there?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I mean every year I would go to Meccana Island
and that you know, I did the most American thing
possible when I took my family there during the summer.
We went and stayed at the Grand Hotel during July
fourth on Macina Island, and it was an explosion of American.
It was like the greatest July Fourth I've ever had.
I mean, I I just like, I'm like a proselytizer
(05:40):
when it comes to Michigan. I just think it's like
one of the great places in the world, especially upstate. Yeah,
but a lot of those kind of mid sized cities
have really come up since we lived there. But you know,
I went to summer camp, you know, up there, and
you know Sheboygan and you know, Traverse City Cherry Festival.
I took them to. It's just so so it's beyond beautiful.
(06:02):
Sleeping your dunes.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, people don't really have any idea how beautiful it is.
And yeah, Macinaw especially is so special. You know, you've
got to take up either a car or a plane,
and then a ferry and then a horse, and it's
a trip back in time.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
And the Grand Hotel is so wonderful and.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Just a fudge fudge everywhere. When I was there, It's funny.
I was there and I started I was walking around
and taking my family to the fudge shops and like
someone I could tell someone kind of recognized me in
the fudgshop and there was just like, you know, I
was like, and I went to another fudgshop and then
all of a sudden, I hear someone else come into
(06:41):
the fudge shop and start whispering. You guys, Paul Rudd
is Macina, Paul Read's on Amcan Island, and literally everyone
in the fudgehop started to go like this and then
run out onto the streets and like people congregated to
see if they could find Paul Rudd on Mackinac Island.
And I'm just like eating my foot, just like, do
(07:02):
you hear Paul Road is here?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Listen?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
People can't believe that anyone of any stature is there
because it's so hard to get to.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It's so hard to get there.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And if you're not like a Michigander, you're like, why
how'd you get here?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Why are you here? But it is so special.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Speaking of getting recognized, do you get recognized more for
The Hangover or National Treasure?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Do you think?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I mean, it's it's it's I don't know, it's both.
I mean it's different crowds, you know, it's certainly different crowds.
I mean National Treasure has really kind of been this
generational gift that you know, now families are watching. It's
become this really meaningful thing for a lot of people.
You'd say, you know, you talk about it helps with
anxiety because it's kind of like a comfort blanket, and
(07:49):
I think, you know, certainly as I get older, I
see really kind of like these big generational ties with
that movie of I've had people come up and say,
I watched it with my dying mother because we grew
up watching it. My grandparents loved that movie, my little
kids loved So it's like, really this gift that keeps
giving that I never thought I would be a part of.
(08:11):
With Hangover, you know, different, it's a different experience. There's
a lot of just screaming outside of cars. I found Doug.
You know, it's like a lot of that. I can't
go to Vegas anymore, but thankfully, what's wonderful about being
an actor in New York is you see kind of
pockets of different appreciations for the different, you know, projects
(08:33):
I've had over my life, because you know, I've done
a bunch of theaters, so there's like my theater community,
there's the TV stuff, so little you know, I did
a show that you mentioned called The New Normal, which
was you know, weirdly held up, you know, really in
the gay community. So a lot of like gay men
specifically come up to me like that was meaningful before
(08:54):
the legalization of gay marriage. So it was at a
time that it left.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I want to talk about the new normal and
a bit too. What though, what were you like as
a kid? I always like to ask what you were
like as a kid. I think it's a great place
to start.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
What was I like as a kid? I still am
a kid?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
See right? Can you believe we're forty six?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Justin No, you don't have to say it so many times.
You know, I was pretty independent. You know. I was
a sporty kid at first, and then kind of shy
and sporty, and then when I found performing and acting,
it really took over and I you know, separated myself. So,
(09:43):
you know, I was kind of after we moved to Michigan.
From really early on, I just started to kind of
find my own way and did my own thing.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
When did you start performing?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You know, it's funny, I just did this. I was
looking through some old stuff and I found this sheet
of like, you know, when I was twelve, of like
what do you you know? What did you do this summer?
What do you want to do? And then like what
do you want to be when you grew up? And
I wrote, I want to be an actor and I
don't even I don't even remember acting that early. I
kind of at least found it like fifteen seriously. But yeah,
(10:18):
I guess I wanted to do it from pretty early
on thirteen fourteen. I would say, you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Know, it's I most I did ballet and eventually very
seriously at Boston Ballet.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
But in Michigan, I.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Was doing ballet and I was also, I don't know
why this happened, auditioning for film and TV roles, and
I auditioned for a part in RoboCop two, which I
didn't get.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You did, huh? But I was obsessed with roebook. I
saw RoboCup two for my birthday.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Oh my god, Well don't I never even saw it.
But was there a role for a little girl?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I mean, I don't remember. Maybe I'm sure, I'm sure.
Maybe you know, you got to figure it's the sequels,
so I'm sure like Peter Weller was protecting a little girl.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
At something, Yes, something like that. I was against RoboCop.
Oh interesting anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Who did you but you actually like was so addressed
did the RoboCup outfit?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
No, he was a director or a cast you know,
was sitting there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Like did they talk? Did they talk in the RoboCop voice,
thank you for not smoking? Okay, Nope.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
And then I got like.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
A promotional film for GM of course because it's Michigan.
But like, was there a lot of work coming through
Michigan or were you mostly doing like stuff at school? No?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
No, no, I mean I did stuff at school. I
mean the first thing I do. I had like a
super indelible experience of when I was I think fifteen
was the first, you know, I started doing kind of
like acting workshops. And then there was an industrial that
came into town that was a commercial for Black History
(11:51):
Month starring Grant Hill, who was a big basketball player
at the time. Yeah, and they basically were casting a
bunch of kids. It was a black and white spot
and where a bunch of kids sat around and just
listened to Grant Hill kind of talk about Black History
Month and my dad, who you know, I don't have
any you know, connections to the industry of just some random,
(12:14):
you know kid in Michigan and my dad, you know,
I got this gig as like a kid that just
like an extra. Basically that's like watching Grant Hill, and
my dad took me never been to like a set before,
and we're like doing this whole thing. There's like probably
fifteen kids or something, and he's, you know, hanging out there.
You know, you see the director setting up the shots
(12:34):
and like featuring every kid, kind of listening to Grant
Hill and at the end of like a twelve hour
day and I'm so I remember being so into it
and blah. But my dad noticed that they never got
a shot of me. So they were gonna wrap and
my dad goes up to the director and he's like, hey,
let me talk to you for then you shoot my kid.
(12:56):
And was like, all right, Sarah, sorry, we ran out
of time. He's like, no, no, no, I waited around here
for twelve hours and my kids just sitting there. Shoot
my kid. Go ahead, yeah, I want to. I need
a shot at my kid. And sure enough he pre
convinced them to get one extra shot. And you can
see at a certain point it's me going like listening
to Grant Hill talk about Martin Luther King a little
(13:18):
Jewish boy, Yeah, a little Jewish boy, being like, these.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Are the words of doctor Martin Luther King Junior, whose
accomplishments are an inspiration to us ault.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So that's the first thing, and I was hooked now,
But I did a bunch, you know, I did. Like
there was like some summer stock type of thing, and
there was like a program where a New York acting
teacher came to do like a summer program, and I
signed up for this. Like he was teaching the Meisner technique,
which is a type of you know, acting technique, and
(13:51):
then attached to that training, they also did a production
of Jesus Christ Supershow where they brought in New York
actors theater actors and you would like experience what it's
like to be on a set, and we put it
on in downtown Detroit. And it's funnily enough, one of
those New York actors, randomly, like I worked with later on,
(14:13):
he had this thing the Dan band in the hangover.
So send them to get to the candice shop.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I'll let you lick the well.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So you go to NYU, you you go for acting.
Do you do all the end of year drama auditions?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean, I kind of had a circuitous path to
kind of getting into I was like, ah, I was
such a hustler. So I transferred kind of halfway through
into the film program. So I graduated from the film
for at NYU, so I was kind of, you know,
it's the program. When I was there was a conservatory
you're not allowed to work, and I was like, I
want to get out there and do some stuff. So
(14:53):
I started to make my own films. And then at NYU,
I had this show on NYU TV that was like
a comedic interview show that was, you know, we would
basically sneak into old school press junkets and like do
comedic interviews and we cut together like a sizzle reel
and we would have this the show on NYUTV that
(15:15):
became kind of like a cult little had a cult
little following, yeah, within the closed circuit TV. And then
through that I got an agent. And then I started
to direct, write and direct commercials for Showtime, and I
kind of went down that route and I got an
acting agent from that being able to kind of sneak
in through that, and then funnily enough, we ended up
(15:36):
sending that stuff we did at NYU. We got a lawyer,
and that lawyer sent it to Todd Phillips, who was
eventually a director of the Hangover. That's how I initially
met Todd. He ended up producing the show that we
made for MTV back in the day, in like the
year two thousand and we made a pilot for MTV
and then the last day I basically started to audition
(15:59):
for movies through that, and then I was auditioning for
my first movie and I kind of got it the
last when they turned down the pilot for MTV. So
I kind of that was my transition into acting.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
How do you get on the set of Vanalyze this,
I was obsessed.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
With de Niro, as every actor is, ye, but you know,
when I was in high school and then college, I
was truly obsessed with him, and I watched kind of
you know, I just watched every single thing he ever
did and kind of studied de Niro. I was a fan,
Like I would wait out. I remember waiting outside of
the set of Great Expectations. They were shooting in New York,
(16:36):
and I was like just waiting to just see him
and trying to schmooze a PA to let me like
shake his hands shit like that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
So I while again like I would skip school and
just try to work as I had no experience, just
gain experience within the industry, and I ended up getting
an internship at Tribeca Productions just like walking in there
and being like, I need to work here. And I was,
you know, a p auction assistant there, and then you know,
I worked my way up to you know, office PA
(17:05):
and set PA, and then I was just kind of
you know, that was how I learned a lot of
the business was being an intern.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
So did you meet him, did you work with him? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, I met him. You know, I I met him
a lot. I ended up being around him all the time.
And then, you know, I've never been you know, been
able to be in a movie with him, but I've
over my career, I've been able to do table reads
with him. You know, he always does table reads of
the movies that he's thinking about doing, and I've been
cast and some of those table reasons. So and then
we've had mutual friends and stuff like that. So yeah,
(17:36):
I did manifest some kind of you know, tangential relationship
with de Niro.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know, we we had a Barry son Enfeld on
the podcast and he was DP I think for Big
and yeah, was.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Telling me pornography too as well.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, so I know I know right out at NYU.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, but he was telling us that Tom Hanks was
not Penny marks Shoul's first choice for the role of
Josh Basket, Robert.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
De Niro was yeah, remember hearing that sure fucking wild,
Like it's interesting to hear the like, you know, like
Beverly Hills Cop. It wasn't supposed to be Eddie Murphy
was supposed to be Syevester Stallone like stuff like that
where you're like, holy shit, it would be completely different movie.
But every single movie ever made has those They wanted this.
That's the story of my career is we couldn't get
that guy. So it's that guy.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Talk about Gilie. Talk about Gilie for me.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I mean, this fucking thing, man, it's the it literally
just when you think they I know, man, Well, now
it's like I'm getting all these emails because Seth Rogen
did an interview on Kimmel and he talked about auditioning
for Jillie and how to ruin his career if it can't.
(18:59):
And now it's like every news cycle. It's the trump
of the entertainment industry. It never dies. I mean, you know,
I yeah, Jelly was my first movie. You know, what
do you want to know? I could I'll tell you
we could. We could fill up this whole podcast with
with Gillie Story.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Sure were you aware when it would be Yeah, sure,
how bad we would be received?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Of course not I could. I'll come, I'll comment on anything.
I have nothing to hide, No, of course not. I mean, listen,
anyone making a movie is trying their bat It's incredibly
difficult to make a good movie. It's incredibly difficult to
make a movie. To make a good movie is literally
nearly impossible. It really is so hard. And you know,
(19:47):
that movie at the time was you know, I had
never been on film before besides my own like short
films or anything like that, and this movie was the
hot thing in all of every single you know, It's
not just Seth Rogan. Every single actor of a certain
age read for this movie and tried to be in
(20:11):
this movie. It was Martin Brest, who was already one
of my favorite directors, you know at the time. It
was Ben Affleck and Halle Berry who was originally in
the movie, al Pacino, Christopher Walkin. I mean, it was
the it was the movie and the script was was good,
you know, so everyone, you know, I was you know,
(20:33):
when I got that movie, I had people coming up
to me and saying, I'll see at the Academy Awards.
Before I even shot a frame of the movie, everyone
thought the movie was going to be amazing. I mean,
this is a truly amazing feeling now. The experience of that,
although it was ultimately dramatic, you know, I learned more
(20:56):
about the industry of Hollywood making movie, these relationships, everything
within the making of that one movie then I've learned
in my entire career. It was unbelievable, an unbelievable experience,
not just because I got to work with al Pacino
and Christopher Walken and Ben and Jen and I became
(21:17):
very close with them, and it was truly unreal. But
you know, seeing relationally Martin Brest and you know, the
dynamics of the crew, all this stuff. It was invaluable.
But when you're making it, no, you believe wholeheartedly, and
I you know, the focus that is that it takes
(21:37):
to do it is crazy.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Now, once some of the stuff that was outside of
the movie started to leak in, like you started to
see you know when we first that movie, when we
made it, you know, at least a third of that
movie was reshot. Originally the movie was a drama and
Jennifer Lopez. That character she played was out of the
(22:01):
movie kind of like an hour before it was done.
And it was like this interesting, weird thing between Affleck
and it was a gangster kind of comedy, you know,
Tarantino asque and you know, when we tested the movie originally,
there was a clause in this kind of contract that
(22:21):
Marty Brest had a final cut, which was you know,
very rare and still is incredibly rare, and there was
a clause if it had tested below a certain number,
then the studio at the time, which was Revolution run
by Joe Roth, could mandate these reshoots of like a
large portion of the movie. And I saw like a
(22:44):
fistfight between the head of the studio and Martin Brest,
where Ben Affleck and I are holding people back. The
stories are are crazy, And what happened was is the director,
you know, I'm not saying the movie was great by
any means, but it was a completely different movie. And
it became kind of this Frankenstein to try and this
is kind of has been talked about to capitalize on
(23:07):
the relationship that was between Ben and Jen and kind
of you know, really took over all of media. So
they tried to fit kind of a rom com into
a kind of an offbeat comedic drama. And then you know,
it took almost a year and a half to make
(23:29):
that movie. When it came to reshoots, the director didn't
want to shoot the reshoots. At one point, Ben and
I rewrote a completely different script and we were trying
to get it approved by the studio. Like it was
so much into that we knew the reshoots were bad,
so we were trying to stop them, and we believed
in a lot of the stuff that we shot, you know,
(23:50):
but of course, when you frankenstein something together and it's
you know, creativity by committee, it's going to end up bad.
And this ended up worse than you know, anyone could
possibly know. And unfortunately, as a young actor, like, wait,
all this stuff that I worked on for over a
year is now. But the character. I'm not saying my
(24:10):
performance is like the greatest, or anyone's performance is the greatest,
But the character is piecemeal together. There's stuff that doesn't
make sense. The whole backstories are gone, there's all these
scenes gone. You know, people aren't are not happy to
be there. It was the worst popular situation. So by
the time the movie was set to come out and
we are going to do press. Me doing press for
(24:31):
the first time in my entire life. Yeah, Ben came
up to me and he literally before my first interview,
he just wanted to He just goes, listen, I just
want you to know, is going to be really bad,
Like this shit is going to be bad. Just hang
in there. Knew it, well, he knew like the day
before kind of reviews, all that stuff came out, and
we had a sense that we knew that it wasn't good,
(24:54):
you know, of course, but you know, I'll stand by
that it wasn't the worst movie that year. Yeah, there
was a you know, no offense to the filmmakers of
from Justin to Kelly, but you know, there was definitely
there's stinkers every year, and I think this movie, you know,
I think it kind of introduced the word Shoden Freuda
to the kind of American public when attached to the
(25:18):
entertainment industry. And I think, you know, there was that
exposure of Ben and Jen, which was a lot, and
there was this film that definitely is not good and
it was a perfect storm of horribleness.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Well, it's just such a shame because there's so many
talented people attached to that, and I'm wondering what you thought,
like the Ben and.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Jen reboot, what did you think? Oh? God, like we're I.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Mean, you know, honestly, you know, selfishly, you know, I
was like, listen, I want of course, I love them
both and I want them to find happiness. Yeah, but
on a selfish way, I was like, here comes all
the Gli shit.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Again, right right, you know guys, it was.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know, here we go. I gotta I gotta think
about that. Here's another cycle which again is going away.
As someone that is also, by the way, fascinated by
you know, bombs of Hollywood. I love these stories Heaven's
Gate and the stories behind the falls of studios, and yeah,
(26:23):
it's fascinating stuff. But it's it's it's very odd to
be kind of like weirdly in it and then kind
of like, Okay, this is a this is made twenty
you know, twenty years ago more than you know. I'm like, Okay,
it's still it's amazing how much, how how it lasts.
But I guess it's also you know, Ben and Jenn
(26:44):
are they are still incredibly famous people?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yes, they are, Okay, another weird coincidence let's talk about Rollers.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Okay, Holy Rose is all right there. Sorry, but but
you are an Orthodox Jew that deals drugs.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Indeed, uh no.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Holy Rollers was co produced by two of my very
good friends, Ryan Silbert and Rob Profusek.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
I don't know if you worked with those.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean Ryan, Yeah, for sure, I mean Ryan, I
think I've known for a long time.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
For sure, we both we all went to Cornell together.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Okay, it was so wild, but you know, that was
another That movie was another wild experience for me. Temmy
oh man, Well, what were you going to say, let's go,
let's follow your past.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I wanted to know what that what filming it was
like because I've I've not worked with those guys.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
They're just friends, and it's such a quirky film.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, I mean, listen that movie. What's interesting about that movie,
It really kind of to me what it brings up
is kind of the hustle it takes to get an
independent film made. Yeah, especially now. But but then it's
like this this guy that I'd known for a while,
Danny a Danny abo Aba Kassar, had this idea and
(27:56):
kind of a seed of an idea from like a
news magazine show that he saw that he'd seen and
he sent it to Jesse Eisenberg, who you know, I
was very close with, and we you know, the idea
was so great that the script at the time was
kind of a different thing. It was kind of more
set up to be almost like a B movie, like
(28:18):
a shoot him up kind of thriller, and Jesse and
I worked on kind of, you know, retooling it into
this kind of character drama story about you know, kind
of the fall from religion and brotherhood and what it
means to be in an insular community and all this stuff.
And it was, you know, we shot that movie for
(28:41):
for nothing, you know, in like eighteen days in New
York and certainly you know, at certain point you know
there's a yeah, there's it was. It was an interesting
shoot where some people had some difficulties kind of staying
on track. And Okay, but you don't hear you don't
(29:01):
hear a lot about the small movies. But yeah, but
we're very proud of that movie. We a lot of
my close friends. You know, one of my closest friends
was the cinematographer on the movie, who now is one
of a great the great cinematographers shot White lotus and everything,
and Jesse helped cast it, and we helped produce it
and really put it together and bootstrap it, and we're
(29:21):
super proud of it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Absolutely another thing you're proud of. You mentioned this earlier,
the New Normal. I know you're really proud of that
show and disappointed that it got canceled. But I was
wondering what your thoughts were going into You're going into
a network comedy, You're going into a Ryan Murphy production,
You're going into a show that, apparently for some people,
was considered controversial. This is even after like Will and Grace.
(29:47):
But anyway, what were all of your thoughts going into
the New Normal.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, I mean, I listen, I really wanted to work
with Ryan Murphy. I was sent that script and I
read it, and it just even though on television you
have certainly shows that tackle, you know, homosexuality and in
a way like Soap and Will and Grace and Modern Family,
(30:12):
this seemed like kind of a ratcheting up of issues
that were interesting. Surrogacy, real intimacy where you see men truly,
you know, be affectionate with each other, and certainly tackling
bigotry within that, and and you know, it was something
that I really wanted to be a part of. I
have one brother who's gay and had a difficult time
(30:36):
kind of you know coming out and and and coming
into his own and it was Yeah, it was just
there was so many wonderful people involved, and it was
something that we're proud of and and you know, kind
of in hindsight we are. It was also the only
thing that Ryan Murphy has ever done that was canceled
(30:57):
after one season. But yeah, there was it was interesting
to be kind of you know, there was controversy or
the Million Moms, this whole thing that we start to
understand when you're in you know, not necessarily the center,
but when that stuff is pointed at you, you're like,
you can see the artifice of all of the politicking
of these groups and how you know, they try to leverage,
(31:20):
you know, any type of controversy and to just press
right and having to navigate that in a way where
you're like, you don't want to underplay it, which you're
just like, to me, this is just normal, you know.
But the title of the show really was aprobo. I
mean that it was kind of overly kind of preachy
or progressive to certain people, and it felt like it
(31:43):
was a little bit ahead of its time, even though
I'm not saying it was a perfect show, but we
could have, you know, we all thought that it could
have kind of found it stride.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Do you think it was canceled for political reasons?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
No, I don't think it was canceled for political reasons.
I think that I think there are a lot of
different reasons. My sense is that it was certainly came
out during like this transitional period of network television, and
I think, like, you know, the ratings that you know,
if you just waited two years, the ratings that it got,
it actually they would have been like, oh, this is
(32:16):
a really successful TV show. But like you know, during
that time, it was really kind of like this bubble thing,
and then the rewards weren't worth the risk. I guess
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, let's talk about the hangover. Why why do Brad
and Ed and Zach.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Get to have all the fun and hijinks in those movies?
You're fun, thank you? You know?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
That was that's the way then the concert. I mean,
the character, you know, Doug is the kind of I
always describe him as kind of like the glue in
the sense with when you take him away, everything falls apart.
So he's you know, he's kind of designed as everyone's there.
In a way, he's the connector, if you you know,
(33:03):
the main for me, you know, in a way when
I was looking at that character, the main thing that
stood out was these three Why would these three guys
ever be in the same room? Right, So without Doug,
You're like, there's no connector. So he has to be
a little bit nerdy, a little bit empathetic to his
brother in law, a little bit you know, strong, and
(33:27):
kind of a ballsy like Bradley's character. You know, he's
a device in a sense.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And then just to circle back on National Treasure, what
did you did you have any misgivings about doing like
a big Disney I did?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean I did. I was a snobby little boy.
I was just you know, I was coming at a
film school. The first, you know, I did Gelie, which
hadn't really you know, it was still a kind of
a priss even though it was a bond. I still
worked with all of these people. The second thing I
ever did was a Sydney Lamette movie for HBO that
(34:04):
never came out. So I was like, really, like, I
want to friend this was hanging out with me being like, justin,
don't do this. I never thought that I would ever,
you know, even have a chance to do this, So
when it was initially sent to me, I was like, nah,
fuck this. And I was also in a weird place,
you know, I was like, do I want to quit?
Because of the Gili thing. It was so kind of
(34:24):
like ugh, oh wow, And then I ended up you know,
my agents were like, you'd be stupid to not just
read it's Nick Cage. I was like, I do love
Nick Cage the Great. And then Bruckheimer, who had who
was friends with Martin Brest. He knew Martin well, and
Marty had shown him before the public got hold of it,
had shown him Jillie, and he was he was into.
(34:48):
He was the one guy that was into what I
was doing in that movie. So he he was became
a champion of mine at that time. But yeah, I was.
I was certainly like no. I was like, I don't
know if I want to be in this big action movie.
This is kind of a different thing. And then you
know the character of this comedic sidekick. The way it
(35:11):
was written, you know, the script was worked on for
a long long time. It was like a little like, Okay,
we've seen this before, what am I going to do
with this? I don't know what I'm going to do
with this, So obviously once I got on board, it
was like the greatest experience ever. Yeah, you know, I
think everything that I do, I have some fear to
jump in. I'm always like can I do this? Should
(35:33):
I do? You know?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, I have that that no before jumping in with everything.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
I do too, because my business is similar to yours
in that it's not linear. There's no like, Okay, if
you want to get here, you do A B and
C and then you're there. There's all these career forks
and moments where Okay, if I do this, is this
going to take me off in this direction that I
don't love ultimately, or.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Is this going to be the thing that takes me
exactly where I want to get?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You never know, and so it's always just a gut
instinct and maybe agents and people around you telling you
what to do, but like they're always tough decisions.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, it's but it's also like so much of it
is an idea of what you want, you know, it's
it's all a fantasy in a way. Like you like,
the best stuff I've ever done is just either kind
of going with it and jumping in or just you know,
trying something completely different. So yeah, I think like when
I was younger, I was incredibly careful of every step,
(36:30):
and then a lot of people are, you know, being
like you should do that, you should be you know.
So it's navigating that specific world when you're in your
early twenties. It's just bizarre. Yeah, But ultimately it was
exactly what you know I always loved, you know, and
came up you know, in my high school we would
do these vaudeville productions and it was like the most
(36:51):
flow that I've ever felt in my life.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Or not young borld now and honestly share you we
look good, We did look good.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
We look great. But it's funny on this show.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I see that blue, I see that blue. You looking
good in that blue?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Thank you, sir, Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
We talk a lot on this show about career arcs,
and I don't know why this always comes up, but
I'm often interviewing creative people of an age, and it
comes up a lot that we're like existentially wrestling with Okay,
I'm forty six, who where am I going to go next?
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And I'm also a mom.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
That's you know, another life I've taken on And are
there things I still want to accomplish? Can I leave
the thing that I've been doing for twenty years? We
still know who I am? Do I have an identity
without it?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Like?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Why do you think at this age that it brings
up so many of those questions? And do you have
some of those same anxiety?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Those anxieties are my identity? Of course I have those anxieties.
I am constantly wrestling with that stuff, especially you know,
within our business, which is evolving at a rate that
is exponentially difficult to you know, hold on to.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
And also it's changing so much.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very similar thing.
But yeah, I mean, listen, I've been incredibly fortunate, I
think we both have in our career. And once I
had kids, which is something that I really kind of
always wanted to do, it certainly shifted quite a bit
(38:44):
in my ambitions and my you know, priorities, and then
you know, I think the pandemic times was kind of
really super charged, not just those anxieties but also those
kind of existential questions of what am I doing, you know,
especially within my own industry, you know, which was shut
(39:05):
down and you had to figure out what you were doing.
And you know, I was weirdly incredibly busy during that time,
and I also was I live in Brooklyn, It's like
the epicenter of the pandemic, and you're like, okay, what
am I doing here? I had I had sold something
to write right before everything shut down, so I was
(39:27):
kind of like trying to write a comedy during the pandemic.
And then also like my family had no as a
lot most families had no income, so we're like okay,
And I launched a business with my wife, a fitness app.
She's a fitness instructor, and we launched this this fitness
app during the pandemic, which then became a pretty big business.
(39:51):
It like took off. So my, you know, my, I
had a really hard time focusing on what I had
been doing writing and and creating up until that point.
I was scatted, like right, I felt like it was impossible.
And then I started building this business with my wife
that was really bringing me joy and also trying to
(40:12):
you had to step up your parent game to you know,
teaching my kid how to read. I'm trying to educate them. Yeah, school,
My schools were like every like you're you filling in
all the gaps. You're filling in all the gaps, and
like you have to rise to the occasion or it
all falls apart. So you're you know, that kind of
mix of the thing that I had been doing for
(40:36):
a long time. You know, it's not that simple, but
the thing that I had been doing a long time.
You know, there was a big shift when my kid
was born and then my second kid was born in
trying to support a family in a traditional way doing
off Broadway theater for four hundred dollars, you know, I
just kind of had a mental breakdown.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yep, me too.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
And then yeah, I truly was like I don't know
how to do that. There was no there's no one
in my life that was like, this is how you
do it. And it was like, Okay, this is a
huge shift from the life that I had built in
a great way but also in a confusing way. And
then the pandemic shifted in a beautiful way, you know,
(41:17):
you know, strangely for my family because I started to
build this business with my wife, and she really found
her flow in the world with kind of creating a
fitness app out of all of her training for years,
and this business really blew up. And then kind of
on the other side of it all, you know, certainly,
I was left with, Okay, I don't know what's bringing
(41:40):
me joy. The thing that I had been doing for
so long is not bringing me joy. Building a business
is really interesting. It's something that I'm doing with my wife,
and it's something that I'm seeing a lot of success in.
It's and it's kind of, you know, stretching a different muscle.
And then the opportunities that I had been blessed with
for many years were kind of disappearing. I also, you know,
(42:02):
just the way I moved within the industry in the
first part of my career, which is really centered on myself,
but you know, trying to build that I wasn't that important.
I didn't want to leave New York. I didn't want
to move away from my family. I was only taking
jobs that was that were in New York. I couldn't
understand how to, you know, go to another country for
six I was just like I couldn't figure it out.
(42:24):
I was like, I don't want to do it, and
then that had repercussions, so I think and then our
industry is just so different now and it's just like
it certainly has forced me to, you know, supercharge the
therapy and try to find different therapeutic modalities that can help,
(42:44):
and try to get right in a way that everyone
should do, whether you're you know, whether you've changed or
not and everyone has, or whether you have to, whether
your identity is defined by your career or whether it's not.
You know, so long answer is yes.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, it's been a journey so similar to my experience
with my business and my family and COVID and all
the things I got therapy, I got on medication started
talking about mental health.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
What do you do now to protect your mental health?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I mean to protect it? I mean, I know, the things.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
You wouldn't have known to do before.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Well, yeah, I mean for me, you know, the question
comes at an interesting time because you know, you you
reached out to me at a time where I was
at an odd you know, mentally, I was at a
kind of a dark spot and I was like, you know,
I was like talking about myself seemed like the worst possible.
It seems literally a nightmare, which it always kind of
(43:52):
has been. But I you know, to me, it's about
being aware of where you're at. I just did something.
I'm sure you've maybe heard of the Hoffman process, have
you heard? Yeah, So I just got back from that,
you know, fairly recently, which was fantastic, and you know,
you kind of you know, gain new tools too to
(44:15):
be aware and be uh and and uh and take
care of yourself mentally, which was super helpful. And it's
I think it's just about leaning into new possibilities and
not sticking with the same thing, whether it's you know,
you're doing traditional talk therapy for a long time and
maybe you think that it's just that's the it's just fine.
(44:38):
It's being like, no, maybe we should try something different.
It's not you know, it's not working out the same muscle.
So I think it's about, you know, like almost anything
in life, it's the willingness to adapt, evolve and change.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And what's your relationship This also comes up a lot
on the pod. What's your relationship with social media?
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Phones? It's all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, I mean, my you know, I'm a bit of
a lot. I mean, I I don't really engage. I
don't really engage in social media at all. Not because
I'm like it's the great evil, even though I think
it is. But I also think it's great. I think
it's every people have, you know, litigated this for a
(45:23):
long time. You don't need my voice on that. But personally,
I just find it so addictive. Like whenever I'm on
my you know, I'm not really on social media. I
have like a page that, you know, because once in
a while I need to reach out to people, right,
but I'm not. I don't engage at all, and I'm
still on my phone. Yesterday, I was trying to work.
(45:44):
I had work to do, I had to give notes
on a script, and I kept on being on my phone.
I would I literally throw my phone in anger focus
and then I find myself going for the phone and
then I'm I'm a monkey. So I unders I just
can't do it. You know, I talked to I mentioned
(46:06):
that Hoffmann process. During that, you know, it's like a
week long kind of emotional boot camp, and you have
no there's no phones, there's nothing, And the effect that
it had on me was astoun It was just like
you're so present, it's like it feels amazing just that,
and we grew up in a time where we didn't
(46:27):
have that shit, So you know, I know that it's
a drug. I like drugs a lot, and I have
to keep myself away from drugs. So to me, it's
you know, it's baked into the cake, and I try
to stay off of it with with with my kids,
I'm really strict about kind of screens in general. I
(46:48):
got my I actually got my my eleven year old
and Apple Watch recently, and I regret it. Just the
Apple Watch. He's not even on it, and I'm just like,
it's this umbilical cord. It's the bilical cord of all
of these kind of social media phones anything that I
think is kind of part of the danger, not just
the distraction, but I I my main thing is trying
(47:13):
to be like a a curator of content as much
as I can of like I'm showing my kids movie
you know, like let's watch movies that are great instead
of just like going on YouTube shorts, which once in
a while is fine, but trying to like get you know,
work out the attention span. I think that's the great
(47:34):
thing now of that even adults need to do is
they need we need to work on our attention span
so we can actually, you know, consume longer form narrative
and all that stuff and tell my kids love stories
and really tell longer stories and not just skibbity toilet.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
The worst. S give me, toilet is the worst. If
I have to hear that one more time in my.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
House, I wish I understood it.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
But yeah, oh same, Yeah, at least at least we
have Riz.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
We have Riz, have Riz. We have so much Riz.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
We have Ris. Okay, so what's coming up?
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I have this movie called Nuked that that I'm in.
It's a great ensemble cast that I also helped produce
and put together, and it was kind of born out
of the pandemic and it's an adult relationship stoner comedy,
which you don't get a lot of these days. It's
an actual comedy. I can promise you that there are
(48:43):
laughs and that it's it's coming out on July eleventh,
same day that's Superman. So if you're not looking forward
to seeing Superman, which is me, okay, maybe stay at
home with a drink or a joint with a loved
one and rent this movie Nuke. I guarantee it is
a good time and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Oh, I can't wait. I will absolutely do that.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Because I stay away from superheroes and comic books.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I listen for the family. I guess those are fine.
But this is like when was the last time you
saw a good relationship comedy?
Speaker 3 (49:16):
Yes, exactly, I love it. I live for that perfect
I do too.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
So I made one for you, and I'd love for
you to see it, just for me, just for me.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Great nuked, we'll see it. Okay, let's go to a
lightning round.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
What's your best high school memory?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
You know, I would you know it's as the actor.
I would say that first time that I got on
stage was at in high school playing the janitor and
Inherit the wind and Meeker and just sweeping the stage.
I was just like, all of a sudden, it was
like the first time that I really remember remember being
(50:00):
in like a flow state that I think we all
kind of try to get to these days.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Cool rank vs. Friends, Fraser Seinfeld.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Well, Seinfeld's one, Yep, it's correct. I mean, I guess
Fraser than Friends. I wasn't the biggest Friends fan. I mean,
I like it, but you know, I didn't really watch
Fraser that much. I don't know, it isn't toss. I
did a little. Yeah, I mean I liked, you know,
to me to us the Fraser thing, even though it's
(50:32):
a brilliant show. Like I love Cheers, so Fraser is
always a spin off of Cheers to me that I
couldn't quite so like Cheers would be number one. But
but I guess Fraser than Friends.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Yeah. National Treasure one or two?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
I mean, that's not for me to decide. To tell
me as the fan, you tell me which one you like.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Gosh, they're both great in their own way.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
I love.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I mean, I love the American history of National Treasure,
yeah one so much. And you know, Philadelphia and I
grew up in New England, so all those stories are
like very close to me.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
But I also love I love the President and the
second one.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
And that's sort of leading into all of.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Your conspiracy theories. That's a really fun strain in it.
And I love that you go to Europe in the
second one. I mean, they're both great. Will there be
a National Treasure three? Everyone wants to know.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I mean, it's they've been trying for so many years.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
So long.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
I mean, it's it's tough. I mean it's the question
that I could probably get asked the most, and you know, yeah,
I mean I think we've gotten close recently. Okay, Nick's
obviously killing it and doing great work. Yeah, I think
so much of it is the economics of it, all
of like, you know, these big Disney movies and blah
blah blah. But they have been working on a script
for quite a while. I don't think it's going to
(51:57):
happen any time soon, but I think if all the
people can get back together. John turtletob is the director
who's the secret sauce of the whole franchise. You know,
we've been we've been trying. I mean, you know, we
certainly you know, Bruckheimer's office has checked in recently. I
mean it's definitely still it's definitely still out alive. It's alive,
(52:18):
still alive.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Okay, cross cross fingers. Who's an actor you haven't worked
with yet but would like to? Well, I guess Dniro,
I mean for sure.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
I mean there's so many, Uh, there's so many. Yeah,
I mean it's yeah, I don't know. I mean, I
think Shia lah Buff is so good I would love to,
you know, spar with him. There's so many. I mean,
I haven't worked with some of the great you know
Meryl Streep.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Sure, sure, Yeah. What's your favorite book?
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Huh? A favorite book? That's rough. I mean what what
pops into my mind is Catcher in the Rye And
it's a lot cliche, but yeah, that's I mean, that's
a good one. Yeah, I would say Catcher in the Rye.
(53:12):
There's this book called Hunger that had a huge effect
on me by Newte Hampson that I read years ago
that I really love.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
Is that fiction?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (53:24):
Okay? What's your favorite hangover food?
Speaker 1 (53:29):
I'm not a big drinker, but you know, a nice
turkey ruben? What turkey ruben sandwich? It's just covered in
thousand Island cole slaw and ship your favorite? What's your
favorite hangover food?
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Probably like ramen Like that sounds.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Gross to be with a hugover slurping and ship Yes.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
Roast to me?
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (54:03):
All right?
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Uh, what's what's your favorite what's your favorite book?
Speaker 3 (54:09):
Well, it's a tie.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
I really love The Stranger by Camo that's up there
to keep that it's a great one.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
And I also love Rabbit Run by John Updyke.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Oh, I haven't read Rabbit Run.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
What's your favorite band? And then what do you think
is the most overrated band?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
I mean favorite band that's I mean, I would say,
I would say it's I'm such a huge music head.
It's tough. I mean, I guess for life. Radiohead is
up there, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. You know, there's
so many. I love the Stones, I love Beatles. M
(54:54):
overrated band, I don't, I don't know. It's mean. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
Okay, you don't have to be mean.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, I don't want to be mean. I mean, I
have so much reverence for it's you two. Oh god,
I have so much reverence for anyone that can play music.
I like, you know, if they can do it.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Great diplomatic, I like it. Yeah, this is the last question.
It's the most important to us. We ask it at
the end of every podcast because it's important to me culturally.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
When is it iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Right now? I had an iced coffee this morning.
Speaker 3 (55:24):
Great, it's cut.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
I mean sometimes I go ice coffee in the winter.
It's always ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
That's the correct answer, justin that's the correct answer. It's
your round. Yes, it's your round.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Depends on what I mean. If you go into if
you go somewhere that has the heat on in winter,
sometimes you want a little ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
It has got for me. It has nothing to do
with the temperature. I just always want an iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
That's absolutely love it for yourself. Get a frappuccino once
in a while.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Hey, you go crazy, absolutely so what who cares? Bartha?
This was so fun? Thank you, Thank you. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
I wish I could ask you a bunch of questions
right now, but I guess for the inevitable podcast that
I start, you can.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Ask me one question. What question would you?
Speaker 1 (56:06):
I mean, I am interested. I am interested about the
Bill maher experience and kind of like how that evolved
you've been on to me and how that evolved over
years and how you know if like you know, you're yeah,
how how is that experience?
Speaker 2 (56:22):
It's the best and the toughest thing I do in
my job. I don't get nervous for TV because I'm
on live TV all day and I don't even notice,
you know, when cameras are on. Now that's different. It's
a live audience. That's a different thing. It's once you're
not coming back anytime soon. You might be coming back
(56:44):
like next year, but you don't get to like redeem
yourself immediately. If it doesn't go right, it airs re
airs six times.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Over one weekend.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
So if you if you do, great, that's the best
week of your life. If you don't, it's agony. It's agony.
And then depending on where I am politically in the moment,
and Bill is politically in the moment, he's either you know,
cheering me on, which is great, or an adversary, which
is tough because usually it's me against everybody else. So
(57:17):
you really have to be prepared. These are smart people
who know what they're talking about. So it's just a lot.
It's a lot, but when it goes well. First of all,
I think it's the greatest political show on television, and I've.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Been watching him for my whole life.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yes, back when it's politically correct. Absolutely, he's incredibly talented.
But the producers of that show are also incredibly talented,
and it's such a well oiled machine.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
Both.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
I always really appreciate you on that show because you
don't pander to the audience. You do say, you know,
you're you have a you know, kind of in my opinion,
a centrist type of view, and I think that that's
super needed. And you know, and I always love seeing
you on there sparring.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Thanks well, I love doing it, and thanks for saying, yeah,
all right, so do you feel better?
Speaker 3 (58:06):
You asked a question.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I could keep going, but.
Speaker 3 (58:10):
Sure, well we can do this again. But thank you
so much. I really really loved it. Thanks for talking
about mental health.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
It always makes me happy because when we do, of
course talk about mental health, we make it easier to
talk about mental health.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Just the point.
Speaker 1 (58:23):
Absolutely. Thanks, thank you, Essie.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
Coming up next week on Off the Cup, I sit
down and talk to singer songwriter Eric Hutchinson.
Speaker 4 (58:33):
That's the first thing I do when I write a song,
as I spend a couple of days trying to figure
out if it's someone else's song or not.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
Are you serious? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (58:41):
I know a lot of songwriters that do that. But
a lot of the times why it sounds good to
you while you're writing is because you've already heard it
somewhere else before it.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the Other Reason Choice Podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill,
and natively For Off the Cup, I am your host
se Cup.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and
Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts,
follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
You reached out to me at a time where I
was at an odd you know, mentally, I was at
a kind of a dark spot. Talking about myself seemed
like the worst possible literally a nightmare, which it always
kind of has been.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
We have a terrific guest today. I'm I'm a big fan.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Of his work.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
But also in prepping for this interview, I discovered we
have an uncanny amount in common, like spooky and we'll
get into it, but you know him as as Riley
Pool from the National Treasure film series, Doug Billings in
the Hangover trilogy. He's starred on TV shows like The
New Normal and the Good Fight, and he's made his
(00:47):
mark on stage and plays like Lend Me a Tenor
and All New People.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
It's Justin Bartha. Welcome to Off the Cup.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
Thank you for having me Esse. I was telling you before,
I'm a big fan. I've been watching you on Bill
Maher for many years.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Okay, well that's our first and that's our first uncanny connection.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
It is I'm really curious about these connections.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, this one's not spooky, it's just I was on
Bill Maher with Zach Galifanakis. Okay, you know who's wonderful
and quest and I remember in the after party being
a little cold and he gave me his his jacket
and just adult. So we'll talk about I want to
talk about him. That's one very small cross old.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Okay, Okay, there's more, there's more, there's more.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I can't First of all, I just can't tell you
how how happy National Treasure has made me in my life.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
Oh that's sweet, thank you.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I watched those two movies like all the time because
I have anxiety, so I only watch things I've already seen.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
For the most part. Okay, okay, both.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
The National Treasures are so good and I can't wait
to watch them with my son.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
How old is your son?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
He's ten?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
He okay, he was born the same year your daughter
was born, twenty fourteen.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
Yeah, yea, okay, okay. We're also we're both forty six.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Okay, okay, yeah, soon to be forty seven over here.
Speaker 3 (02:10):
Yeah yeah, okay, okay, So forty.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Six and my daughter's eleven.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Now when's your and he was December?
Speaker 1 (02:18):
Okay, got it? Okay, so we're in similar experiences.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
I mean, okay, Zach has.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
Given me his jacket also, so there you go.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
I also lived in West Bloomfield. Shut up, Okay, yeah,
so how did I not know that? How did I
not know? You did?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
I didn't know because you're okay, you're born in Florida,
but you moved to West Bloomfield at like.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Eight, yeah, eight or nine?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, well we're the same age. I lived there ten
to thirteen.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
What. I went to Orchard Lake Middle School and then
I went to West Bloomfield High School.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Correct, right, okay, okay, where you go? Well?
Speaker 2 (02:54):
I went to Doherty Middle which was behind my house.
I lived on Swan Lake Drive, which was Swallow, Swan
Lake and Walnut.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
Yeah you know it's here in another connection. This is
gonna be so brual. But in Florida, my elementary school
was called Doherty Elementary.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Oh my god, Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay, wait wait, okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
So I go. I go to Doherty.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
And then because I had just moved to Michigan, I
kind of tested out and they put me in a
charter school called Roosevelt Okay, okay, and then I went
to Country Day.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Oh, I know, Country Day, of course you do of
course you.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Sixth and half of seventh, and then I moved. But
I dance at Geiger Ballet Academy.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
Sure I knew Guygery.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Yeah, God, oh my god. Which was in that like
strip mall fantastic? Country?
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Did Country Day? Did I know? Did Chris Webber the
basketball go to Country Day? Yeah? Because then he went.
I was in sixth Cranbrook, right, Yes, that was the
fancy track. I wasn't. It's because of people like you
that everyone thinks I'm spoiled.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Right.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I went to public school all the way through, and
whenever I say West Boomfot, they go, oh, West Bloomfield.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
I know, I get the same thing.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
But I do make a distinction between Country Day and Cranbrook.
Cranbrook was so I had friends at Cranbrook. It was
so artsy, it was so pretentious. It was a different thing.
Country Day was like athletic and kind of yeah yeah,
yeah kind.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
I was always jealous of the Country Day experience, and
then Cranbrook felt like I just took my family actually
because I moved out of Michigan for college to go
to New York, but my family I took back there
a few years back for the first time, and we
visited Cranbrook and I was like, wait, I had never
(04:41):
been to Cranbrook and I was like walking through there,
I was like, this shit is incredible beautiful. It's beyond it.
It's so beautiful, and I was like, I cannot believe.
I guess my parents like kept me away from that
experience so I wouldn't be overly jealous. But I remember
like driving by cram Brook once in a while and
it's like behind you know, these trees and you can
(05:04):
see it. It's like beyond amazing. I love Michigan so much.
That's me too.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
And I just took my husband because he had never
been to Michigan. I just took him to Macana Island.
Did you ever get up there?
Speaker 1 (05:17):
I mean every year I would go to Meccana Island
and that you know, I did the most American thing
possible when I took my family there during the summer.
We went and stayed at the Grand Hotel during July
fourth on Macina Island, and it was an explosion of American.
It was like the greatest July Fourth I've ever had.
I mean, I I just like, I'm like a proselytizer
(05:40):
when it comes to Michigan. I just think it's like
one of the great places in the world, especially upstate. Yeah,
but a lot of those kind of mid sized cities
have really come up since we lived there. But you know,
I went to summer camp, you know, up there, and
you know Sheboygan and you know, Traverse City Cherry Festival.
I took them to. It's just so so it's beyond beautiful.
(06:02):
Sleeping your dunes.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yeah, people don't really have any idea how beautiful it is.
And yeah, Macinaw especially is so special. You know, you've
got to take up either a car or a plane,
and then a ferry and then a horse, and it's
a trip back in time.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
And the Grand Hotel is so wonderful and.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
Just a fudge fudge everywhere. When I was there, It's funny.
I was there and I started I was walking around
and taking my family to the fudge shops and like
someone I could tell someone kind of recognized me in
the fudgshop and there was just like, you know, I
was like, and I went to another fudgshop and then
all of a sudden, I hear someone else come into
(06:41):
the fudge shop and start whispering. You guys, Paul Rudd
is Macina, Paul Read's on Amcan Island, and literally everyone
in the fudgehop started to go like this and then
run out onto the streets and like people congregated to
see if they could find Paul Rudd on Mackinac Island.
And I'm just like eating my foot, just like, do
(07:02):
you hear Paul Road is here?
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Listen?
Speaker 2 (07:06):
People can't believe that anyone of any stature is there
because it's so hard to get to.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
It's so hard to get there.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
And if you're not like a Michigander, you're like, why
how'd you get here?
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Why are you here? But it is so special.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
Speaking of getting recognized, do you get recognized more for
The Hangover or National Treasure?
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Do you think?
Speaker 1 (07:28):
I mean, it's it's it's I don't know, it's both.
I mean it's different crowds, you know, it's certainly different crowds.
I mean National Treasure has really kind of been this
generational gift that you know, now families are watching. It's
become this really meaningful thing for a lot of people.
You'd say, you know, you talk about it helps with
anxiety because it's kind of like a comfort blanket, and
(07:49):
I think, you know, certainly as I get older, I
see really kind of like these big generational ties with
that movie of I've had people come up and say,
I watched it with my dying mother because we grew
up watching it. My grandparents loved that movie, my little
kids loved So it's like, really this gift that keeps
giving that I never thought I would be a part of.
(08:11):
With Hangover, you know, different, it's a different experience. There's
a lot of just screaming outside of cars. I found Doug.
You know, it's like a lot of that. I can't
go to Vegas anymore, but thankfully, what's wonderful about being
an actor in New York is you see kind of
pockets of different appreciations for the different, you know, projects
(08:33):
I've had over my life, because you know, I've done
a bunch of theaters, so there's like my theater community,
there's the TV stuff, so little you know, I did
a show that you mentioned called The New Normal, which
was you know, weirdly held up, you know, really in
the gay community. So a lot of like gay men
specifically come up to me like that was meaningful before
(08:54):
the legalization of gay marriage. So it was at a
time that it left.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
And I want to talk about the new normal and
a bit too. What though, what were you like as
a kid? I always like to ask what you were
like as a kid. I think it's a great place
to start.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
What was I like as a kid? I still am
a kid?
Speaker 3 (09:17):
See right? Can you believe we're forty six?
Speaker 1 (09:19):
Justin No, you don't have to say it so many times.
You know, I was pretty independent. You know. I was
a sporty kid at first, and then kind of shy
and sporty, and then when I found performing and acting,
it really took over and I you know, separated myself. So,
(09:43):
you know, I was kind of after we moved to Michigan.
From really early on, I just started to kind of
find my own way and did my own thing.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
When did you start performing?
Speaker 1 (09:54):
You know, it's funny, I just did this. I was
looking through some old stuff and I found this sheet
of like, you know, when I was twelve, of like
what do you you know? What did you do this summer?
What do you want to do? And then like what
do you want to be when you grew up? And
I wrote, I want to be an actor and I
don't even I don't even remember acting that early. I
kind of at least found it like fifteen seriously. But yeah,
(10:18):
I guess I wanted to do it from pretty early
on thirteen fourteen. I would say, you.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Know, it's I most I did ballet and eventually very
seriously at Boston Ballet.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
But in Michigan, I.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Was doing ballet and I was also, I don't know
why this happened, auditioning for film and TV roles, and
I auditioned for a part in RoboCop two, which I
didn't get.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
You did, huh? But I was obsessed with roebook. I
saw RoboCup two for my birthday.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Oh my god, Well don't I never even saw it.
But was there a role for a little girl?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I mean, I don't remember. Maybe I'm sure, I'm sure.
Maybe you know, you got to figure it's the sequels,
so I'm sure like Peter Weller was protecting a little girl.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
At something, Yes, something like that. I was against RoboCop.
Oh interesting anyway.
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Who did you but you actually like was so addressed
did the RoboCup outfit?
Speaker 2 (11:09):
No, he was a director or a cast you know,
was sitting there.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
Like did they talk? Did they talk in the RoboCop voice,
thank you for not smoking? Okay, Nope.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
And then I got like.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
A promotional film for GM of course because it's Michigan.
But like, was there a lot of work coming through
Michigan or were you mostly doing like stuff at school? No?
Speaker 1 (11:31):
No, no, I mean I did stuff at school. I
mean the first thing I do. I had like a
super indelible experience of when I was I think fifteen
was the first, you know, I started doing kind of
like acting workshops. And then there was an industrial that
came into town that was a commercial for Black History
(11:51):
Month starring Grant Hill, who was a big basketball player
at the time. Yeah, and they basically were casting a
bunch of kids. It was a black and white spot
and where a bunch of kids sat around and just
listened to Grant Hill kind of talk about Black History
Month and my dad, who you know, I don't have
any you know, connections to the industry of just some random,
(12:14):
you know kid in Michigan and my dad, you know,
I got this gig as like a kid that just
like an extra. Basically that's like watching Grant Hill, and
my dad took me never been to like a set before,
and we're like doing this whole thing. There's like probably
fifteen kids or something, and he's, you know, hanging out there.
You know, you see the director setting up the shots
(12:34):
and like featuring every kid, kind of listening to Grant
Hill and at the end of like a twelve hour
day and I'm so I remember being so into it
and blah. But my dad noticed that they never got
a shot of me. So they were gonna wrap and
my dad goes up to the director and he's like, hey,
let me talk to you for then you shoot my kid.
(12:56):
And was like, all right, Sarah, sorry, we ran out
of time. He's like, no, no, no, I waited around here
for twelve hours and my kids just sitting there. Shoot
my kid. Go ahead, yeah, I want to. I need
a shot at my kid. And sure enough he pre
convinced them to get one extra shot. And you can
see at a certain point it's me going like listening
to Grant Hill talk about Martin Luther King a little
(13:18):
Jewish boy, Yeah, a little Jewish boy, being like, these.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Are the words of doctor Martin Luther King Junior, whose
accomplishments are an inspiration to us ault.
Speaker 1 (13:30):
So that's the first thing, and I was hooked now,
But I did a bunch, you know, I did. Like
there was like some summer stock type of thing, and
there was like a program where a New York acting
teacher came to do like a summer program, and I
signed up for this. Like he was teaching the Meisner technique,
which is a type of you know, acting technique, and
(13:51):
then attached to that training, they also did a production
of Jesus Christ Supershow where they brought in New York
actors theater actors and you would like experience what it's
like to be on a set, and we put it
on in downtown Detroit. And it's funnily enough, one of
those New York actors, randomly, like I worked with later on,
(14:13):
he had this thing the Dan band in the hangover.
So send them to get to the candice shop.
Speaker 3 (14:20):
I'll let you lick the well.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
So you go to NYU, you you go for acting.
Do you do all the end of year drama auditions?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean, I kind of had a circuitous path to
kind of getting into I was like, ah, I was
such a hustler. So I transferred kind of halfway through
into the film program. So I graduated from the film
for at NYU, so I was kind of, you know,
it's the program. When I was there was a conservatory
you're not allowed to work, and I was like, I
want to get out there and do some stuff. So
(14:53):
I started to make my own films. And then at NYU,
I had this show on NYU TV that was like
a comedic interview show that was, you know, we would
basically sneak into old school press junkets and like do
comedic interviews and we cut together like a sizzle reel
and we would have this the show on NYUTV that
(15:15):
became kind of like a cult little had a cult
little following, yeah, within the closed circuit TV. And then
through that I got an agent. And then I started
to direct, write and direct commercials for Showtime, and I
kind of went down that route and I got an
acting agent from that being able to kind of sneak
in through that, and then funnily enough, we ended up
(15:36):
sending that stuff we did at NYU. We got a lawyer,
and that lawyer sent it to Todd Phillips, who was
eventually a director of the Hangover. That's how I initially
met Todd. He ended up producing the show that we
made for MTV back in the day, in like the
year two thousand and we made a pilot for MTV
and then the last day I basically started to audition
(15:59):
for movies through that, and then I was auditioning for
my first movie and I kind of got it the
last when they turned down the pilot for MTV. So
I kind of that was my transition into acting.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
How do you get on the set of Vanalyze this,
I was obsessed.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
With de Niro, as every actor is, ye, but you know,
when I was in high school and then college, I
was truly obsessed with him, and I watched kind of
you know, I just watched every single thing he ever
did and kind of studied de Niro. I was a fan,
Like I would wait out. I remember waiting outside of
the set of Great Expectations. They were shooting in New York,
(16:36):
and I was like just waiting to just see him
and trying to schmooze a PA to let me like
shake his hands shit like that.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
So I while again like I would skip school and
just try to work as I had no experience, just
gain experience within the industry, and I ended up getting
an internship at Tribeca Productions just like walking in there
and being like, I need to work here. And I was,
you know, a p auction assistant there, and then you know,
I worked my way up to you know, office PA
(17:05):
and set PA, and then I was just kind of
you know, that was how I learned a lot of
the business was being an intern.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
So did you meet him, did you work with him? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (17:14):
Yeah, I met him. You know, I I met him
a lot. I ended up being around him all the time.
And then, you know, I've never been you know, been
able to be in a movie with him, but I've
over my career, I've been able to do table reads
with him. You know, he always does table reads of
the movies that he's thinking about doing, and I've been
cast and some of those table reasons. So and then
we've had mutual friends and stuff like that. So yeah,
(17:36):
I did manifest some kind of you know, tangential relationship
with de Niro.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
You know, we we had a Barry son Enfeld on
the podcast and he was DP I think for Big
and yeah, was.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Telling me pornography too as well.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Yeah, so I know I know right out at NYU.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah, but he was telling us that Tom Hanks was
not Penny marks Shoul's first choice for the role of
Josh Basket, Robert.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
De Niro was yeah, remember hearing that sure fucking wild,
Like it's interesting to hear the like, you know, like
Beverly Hills Cop. It wasn't supposed to be Eddie Murphy
was supposed to be Syevester Stallone like stuff like that
where you're like, holy shit, it would be completely different movie.
But every single movie ever made has those They wanted this.
That's the story of my career is we couldn't get
that guy. So it's that guy.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
Talk about Gilie. Talk about Gilie for me.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
I mean, this fucking thing, man, it's the it literally
just when you think they I know, man, Well, now
it's like I'm getting all these emails because Seth Rogen
did an interview on Kimmel and he talked about auditioning
for Jillie and how to ruin his career if it can't.
(18:59):
And now it's like every news cycle. It's the trump
of the entertainment industry. It never dies. I mean, you know,
I yeah, Jelly was my first movie. You know, what
do you want to know? I could I'll tell you
we could. We could fill up this whole podcast with
with Gillie Story.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Sure were you aware when it would be Yeah, sure,
how bad we would be received?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Of course not I could. I'll come, I'll comment on anything.
I have nothing to hide, No, of course not. I mean, listen,
anyone making a movie is trying their bat It's incredibly
difficult to make a good movie. It's incredibly difficult to
make a movie. To make a good movie is literally
nearly impossible. It really is so hard. And you know,
(19:47):
that movie at the time was you know, I had
never been on film before besides my own like short
films or anything like that, and this movie was the
hot thing in all of every single you know, It's
not just Seth Rogan. Every single actor of a certain
age read for this movie and tried to be in
(20:11):
this movie. It was Martin Brest, who was already one
of my favorite directors, you know at the time. It
was Ben Affleck and Halle Berry who was originally in
the movie, al Pacino, Christopher Walkin. I mean, it was
the it was the movie and the script was was good,
you know, so everyone, you know, I was you know,
(20:33):
when I got that movie, I had people coming up
to me and saying, I'll see at the Academy Awards.
Before I even shot a frame of the movie, everyone
thought the movie was going to be amazing. I mean,
this is a truly amazing feeling now. The experience of that,
although it was ultimately dramatic, you know, I learned more
(20:56):
about the industry of Hollywood making movie, these relationships, everything
within the making of that one movie then I've learned
in my entire career. It was unbelievable, an unbelievable experience,
not just because I got to work with al Pacino
and Christopher Walken and Ben and Jen and I became
(21:17):
very close with them, and it was truly unreal. But
you know, seeing relationally Martin Brest and you know, the
dynamics of the crew, all this stuff. It was invaluable.
But when you're making it, no, you believe wholeheartedly, and
I you know, the focus that is that it takes
(21:37):
to do it is crazy.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Now, once some of the stuff that was outside of
the movie started to leak in, like you started to
see you know when we first that movie, when we
made it, you know, at least a third of that
movie was reshot. Originally the movie was a drama and
Jennifer Lopez. That character she played was out of the
(22:01):
movie kind of like an hour before it was done.
And it was like this interesting, weird thing between Affleck
and it was a gangster kind of comedy, you know,
Tarantino asque and you know, when we tested the movie originally,
there was a clause in this kind of contract that
(22:21):
Marty Brest had a final cut, which was you know,
very rare and still is incredibly rare, and there was
a clause if it had tested below a certain number,
then the studio at the time, which was Revolution run
by Joe Roth, could mandate these reshoots of like a
large portion of the movie. And I saw like a
(22:44):
fistfight between the head of the studio and Martin Brest,
where Ben Affleck and I are holding people back. The
stories are are crazy, And what happened was is the director,
you know, I'm not saying the movie was great by
any means, but it was a completely different movie. And
it became kind of this Frankenstein to try and this
is kind of has been talked about to capitalize on
(23:07):
the relationship that was between Ben and Jen and kind
of you know, really took over all of media. So
they tried to fit kind of a rom com into
a kind of an offbeat comedic drama. And then you know,
it took almost a year and a half to make
(23:29):
that movie. When it came to reshoots, the director didn't
want to shoot the reshoots. At one point, Ben and
I rewrote a completely different script and we were trying
to get it approved by the studio. Like it was
so much into that we knew the reshoots were bad,
so we were trying to stop them, and we believed
in a lot of the stuff that we shot, you know,
(23:50):
but of course, when you frankenstein something together and it's
you know, creativity by committee, it's going to end up bad.
And this ended up worse than you know, anyone could
possibly know. And unfortunately, as a young actor, like, wait,
all this stuff that I worked on for over a
year is now. But the character. I'm not saying my
(24:10):
performance is like the greatest, or anyone's performance is the greatest,
But the character is piecemeal together. There's stuff that doesn't
make sense. The whole backstories are gone, there's all these
scenes gone. You know, people aren't are not happy to
be there. It was the worst popular situation. So by
the time the movie was set to come out and
we are going to do press. Me doing press for
(24:31):
the first time in my entire life. Yeah, Ben came
up to me and he literally before my first interview,
he just wanted to He just goes, listen, I just
want you to know, is going to be really bad,
Like this shit is going to be bad. Just hang
in there. Knew it, well, he knew like the day
before kind of reviews, all that stuff came out, and
we had a sense that we knew that it wasn't good,
(24:54):
you know, of course, but you know, I'll stand by
that it wasn't the worst movie that year. Yeah, there
was a you know, no offense to the filmmakers of
from Justin to Kelly, but you know, there was definitely
there's stinkers every year, and I think this movie, you know,
I think it kind of introduced the word Shoden Freuda
to the kind of American public when attached to the
(25:18):
entertainment industry. And I think, you know, there was that
exposure of Ben and Jen, which was a lot, and
there was this film that definitely is not good and
it was a perfect storm of horribleness.
Speaker 2 (25:32):
Well, it's just such a shame because there's so many
talented people attached to that, and I'm wondering what you thought,
like the Ben and.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
Jen reboot, what did you think? Oh? God, like we're I.
Speaker 1 (25:44):
Mean, you know, honestly, you know, selfishly, you know, I
was like, listen, I want of course, I love them
both and I want them to find happiness. Yeah, but
on a selfish way, I was like, here comes all
the Gli shit.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
Again, right right, you know guys, it was.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know, here we go. I gotta I gotta think
about that. Here's another cycle which again is going away.
As someone that is also, by the way, fascinated by
you know, bombs of Hollywood. I love these stories Heaven's
Gate and the stories behind the falls of studios, and yeah,
(26:23):
it's fascinating stuff. But it's it's it's very odd to
be kind of like weirdly in it and then kind
of like, Okay, this is a this is made twenty
you know, twenty years ago more than you know. I'm like, Okay,
it's still it's amazing how much, how how it lasts.
But I guess it's also you know, Ben and Jenn
(26:44):
are they are still incredibly famous people?
Speaker 2 (26:46):
Yes, they are, Okay, another weird coincidence let's talk about Rollers.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Okay, Holy Rose is all right there. Sorry, but but
you are an Orthodox Jew that deals drugs.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Indeed, uh no.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
Holy Rollers was co produced by two of my very
good friends, Ryan Silbert and Rob Profusek.
Speaker 3 (27:05):
I don't know if you worked with those.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
I mean Ryan, Yeah, for sure, I mean Ryan, I
think I've known for a long time.
Speaker 3 (27:11):
For sure, we both we all went to Cornell together.
Speaker 1 (27:14):
Okay, it was so wild, but you know, that was
another That movie was another wild experience for me. Temmy
oh man, Well, what were you going to say, let's go,
let's follow your past.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
I wanted to know what that what filming it was
like because I've I've not worked with those guys.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
They're just friends, and it's such a quirky film.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Yeah, I mean, listen that movie. What's interesting about that movie,
It really kind of to me what it brings up
is kind of the hustle it takes to get an
independent film made. Yeah, especially now. But but then it's
like this this guy that I'd known for a while,
Danny a Danny abo Aba Kassar, had this idea and
(27:56):
kind of a seed of an idea from like a
news magazine show that he saw that he'd seen and
he sent it to Jesse Eisenberg, who you know, I
was very close with, and we you know, the idea
was so great that the script at the time was
kind of a different thing. It was kind of more
set up to be almost like a B movie, like
(28:18):
a shoot him up kind of thriller, and Jesse and
I worked on kind of, you know, retooling it into
this kind of character drama story about you know, kind
of the fall from religion and brotherhood and what it
means to be in an insular community and all this stuff.
And it was, you know, we shot that movie for
(28:41):
for nothing, you know, in like eighteen days in New
York and certainly you know, at certain point you know
there's a yeah, there's it was. It was an interesting
shoot where some people had some difficulties kind of staying
on track. And Okay, but you don't hear you don't
(29:01):
hear a lot about the small movies. But yeah, but
we're very proud of that movie. We a lot of
my close friends. You know, one of my closest friends
was the cinematographer on the movie, who now is one
of a great the great cinematographers shot White lotus and everything,
and Jesse helped cast it, and we helped produce it
and really put it together and bootstrap it, and we're
(29:21):
super proud of it.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Absolutely another thing you're proud of. You mentioned this earlier,
the New Normal. I know you're really proud of that
show and disappointed that it got canceled. But I was
wondering what your thoughts were going into You're going into
a network comedy, You're going into a Ryan Murphy production,
You're going into a show that, apparently for some people,
was considered controversial. This is even after like Will and Grace.
(29:47):
But anyway, what were all of your thoughts going into
the New Normal.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, I mean, I listen, I really wanted to work
with Ryan Murphy. I was sent that script and I
read it, and it just even though on television you
have certainly shows that tackle, you know, homosexuality and in
a way like Soap and Will and Grace and Modern Family,
(30:12):
this seemed like kind of a ratcheting up of issues
that were interesting. Surrogacy, real intimacy where you see men truly,
you know, be affectionate with each other, and certainly tackling
bigotry within that, and and you know, it was something
that I really wanted to be a part of. I
have one brother who's gay and had a difficult time
(30:36):
kind of you know coming out and and and coming
into his own and it was Yeah, it was just
there was so many wonderful people involved, and it was
something that we're proud of and and you know, kind
of in hindsight we are. It was also the only
thing that Ryan Murphy has ever done that was canceled
(30:57):
after one season. But yeah, there was it was interesting
to be kind of you know, there was controversy or
the Million Moms, this whole thing that we start to
understand when you're in you know, not necessarily the center,
but when that stuff is pointed at you, you're like,
you can see the artifice of all of the politicking
of these groups and how you know, they try to leverage,
(31:20):
you know, any type of controversy and to just press
right and having to navigate that in a way where
you're like, you don't want to underplay it, which you're
just like, to me, this is just normal, you know.
But the title of the show really was aprobo. I
mean that it was kind of overly kind of preachy
or progressive to certain people, and it felt like it
(31:43):
was a little bit ahead of its time, even though
I'm not saying it was a perfect show, but we
could have, you know, we all thought that it could
have kind of found it stride.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
Do you think it was canceled for political reasons?
Speaker 1 (31:56):
No, I don't think it was canceled for political reasons.
I think that I think there are a lot of
different reasons. My sense is that it was certainly came
out during like this transitional period of network television, and
I think, like, you know, the ratings that you know,
if you just waited two years, the ratings that it got,
it actually they would have been like, oh, this is
(32:16):
a really successful TV show. But like you know, during
that time, it was really kind of like this bubble thing,
and then the rewards weren't worth the risk. I guess
I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Yeah, let's talk about the hangover. Why why do Brad
and Ed and Zach.
Speaker 3 (32:33):
Get to have all the fun and hijinks in those movies?
You're fun, thank you? You know?
Speaker 1 (32:41):
That was that's the way then the concert. I mean,
the character, you know, Doug is the kind of I
always describe him as kind of like the glue in
the sense with when you take him away, everything falls apart.
So he's you know, he's kind of designed as everyone's there.
In a way, he's the connector, if you you know,
(33:03):
the main for me, you know, in a way when
I was looking at that character, the main thing that
stood out was these three Why would these three guys
ever be in the same room? Right, So without Doug,
You're like, there's no connector. So he has to be
a little bit nerdy, a little bit empathetic to his
brother in law, a little bit you know, strong, and
(33:27):
kind of a ballsy like Bradley's character. You know, he's
a device in a sense.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
Yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And then just to circle back on National Treasure, what
did you did you have any misgivings about doing like
a big Disney I did?
Speaker 1 (33:43):
I mean I did. I was a snobby little boy.
I was just you know, I was coming at a
film school. The first, you know, I did Gelie, which
hadn't really you know, it was still a kind of
a priss even though it was a bond. I still
worked with all of these people. The second thing I
ever did was a Sydney Lamette movie for HBO that
(34:04):
never came out. So I was like, really, like, I
want to friend this was hanging out with me being like, justin,
don't do this. I never thought that I would ever,
you know, even have a chance to do this, So
when it was initially sent to me, I was like, nah,
fuck this. And I was also in a weird place,
you know, I was like, do I want to quit?
Because of the Gili thing. It was so kind of
(34:24):
like ugh, oh wow, And then I ended up you know,
my agents were like, you'd be stupid to not just
read it's Nick Cage. I was like, I do love
Nick Cage the Great. And then Bruckheimer, who had who
was friends with Martin Brest. He knew Martin well, and
Marty had shown him before the public got hold of it,
had shown him Jillie, and he was he was into.
(34:48):
He was the one guy that was into what I
was doing in that movie. So he he was became
a champion of mine at that time. But yeah, I was.
I was certainly like no. I was like, I don't
know if I want to be in this big action movie.
This is kind of a different thing. And then you
know the character of this comedic sidekick. The way it
(35:11):
was written, you know, the script was worked on for
a long long time. It was like a little like, Okay,
we've seen this before, what am I going to do
with this? I don't know what I'm going to do
with this, So obviously once I got on board, it
was like the greatest experience ever. Yeah, you know, I
think everything that I do, I have some fear to
jump in. I'm always like can I do this? Should
(35:33):
I do? You know?
Speaker 3 (35:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Yeah, I have that that no before jumping in with everything.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
I do too, because my business is similar to yours
in that it's not linear. There's no like, Okay, if
you want to get here, you do A B and
C and then you're there. There's all these career forks
and moments where Okay, if I do this, is this
going to take me off in this direction that I
don't love ultimately, or.
Speaker 3 (35:58):
Is this going to be the thing that takes me
exactly where I want to get?
Speaker 2 (36:01):
You never know, and so it's always just a gut
instinct and maybe agents and people around you telling you
what to do, but like they're always tough decisions.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Yeah, it's but it's also like so much of it
is an idea of what you want, you know, it's
it's all a fantasy in a way. Like you like,
the best stuff I've ever done is just either kind
of going with it and jumping in or just you know,
trying something completely different. So yeah, I think like when
I was younger, I was incredibly careful of every step,
(36:30):
and then a lot of people are, you know, being
like you should do that, you should be you know.
So it's navigating that specific world when you're in your
early twenties. It's just bizarre. Yeah, But ultimately it was
exactly what you know I always loved, you know, and
came up you know, in my high school we would
do these vaudeville productions and it was like the most
(36:51):
flow that I've ever felt in my life.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Or not young borld now and honestly share you we
look good, We did look good.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
We look great. But it's funny on this show.
Speaker 1 (37:14):
I see that blue, I see that blue. You looking
good in that blue?
Speaker 3 (37:16):
Thank you, sir, Thank you, sir.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
We talk a lot on this show about career arcs,
and I don't know why this always comes up, but
I'm often interviewing creative people of an age, and it
comes up a lot that we're like existentially wrestling with Okay,
I'm forty six, who where am I going to go next?
Speaker 3 (37:39):
And I'm also a mom.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
That's you know, another life I've taken on And are
there things I still want to accomplish? Can I leave
the thing that I've been doing for twenty years? We
still know who I am? Do I have an identity
without it?
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Like?
Speaker 2 (37:53):
Why do you think at this age that it brings
up so many of those questions? And do you have
some of those same anxiety?
Speaker 1 (38:01):
Those anxieties are my identity? Of course I have those anxieties.
I am constantly wrestling with that stuff, especially you know,
within our business, which is evolving at a rate that
is exponentially difficult to you know, hold on to.
Speaker 3 (38:21):
And also it's changing so much.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a very similar thing.
But yeah, I mean, listen, I've been incredibly fortunate, I
think we both have in our career. And once I
had kids, which is something that I really kind of
always wanted to do, it certainly shifted quite a bit
(38:44):
in my ambitions and my you know, priorities, and then
you know, I think the pandemic times was kind of
really super charged, not just those anxieties but also those
kind of existential questions of what am I doing, you know,
especially within my own industry, you know, which was shut
(39:05):
down and you had to figure out what you were doing.
And you know, I was weirdly incredibly busy during that time,
and I also was I live in Brooklyn, It's like
the epicenter of the pandemic, and you're like, okay, what
am I doing here? I had I had sold something
to write right before everything shut down, so I was
(39:27):
kind of like trying to write a comedy during the pandemic.
And then also like my family had no as a
lot most families had no income, so we're like okay,
And I launched a business with my wife, a fitness app.
She's a fitness instructor, and we launched this this fitness
app during the pandemic, which then became a pretty big business.
(39:51):
It like took off. So my, you know, my, I
had a really hard time focusing on what I had
been doing writing and and creating up until that point.
I was scatted, like right, I felt like it was impossible.
And then I started building this business with my wife
that was really bringing me joy and also trying to
(40:12):
you had to step up your parent game to you know,
teaching my kid how to read. I'm trying to educate them. Yeah, school,
My schools were like every like you're you filling in
all the gaps. You're filling in all the gaps, and
like you have to rise to the occasion or it
all falls apart. So you're you know, that kind of
mix of the thing that I had been doing for
(40:36):
a long time. You know, it's not that simple, but
the thing that I had been doing a long time.
You know, there was a big shift when my kid
was born and then my second kid was born in
trying to support a family in a traditional way doing
off Broadway theater for four hundred dollars, you know, I
just kind of had a mental breakdown.
Speaker 3 (40:55):
Yep, me too.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
And then yeah, I truly was like I don't know
how to do that. There was no there's no one
in my life that was like, this is how you
do it. And it was like, Okay, this is a
huge shift from the life that I had built in
a great way but also in a confusing way. And
then the pandemic shifted in a beautiful way, you know,
(41:17):
you know, strangely for my family because I started to
build this business with my wife, and she really found
her flow in the world with kind of creating a
fitness app out of all of her training for years,
and this business really blew up. And then kind of
on the other side of it all, you know, certainly,
I was left with, Okay, I don't know what's bringing
(41:40):
me joy. The thing that I had been doing for
so long is not bringing me joy. Building a business
is really interesting. It's something that I'm doing with my wife,
and it's something that I'm seeing a lot of success in.
It's and it's kind of, you know, stretching a different muscle.
And then the opportunities that I had been blessed with
for many years were kind of disappearing. I also, you know,
(42:02):
just the way I moved within the industry in the
first part of my career, which is really centered on myself,
but you know, trying to build that I wasn't that important.
I didn't want to leave New York. I didn't want
to move away from my family. I was only taking
jobs that was that were in New York. I couldn't
understand how to, you know, go to another country for
six I was just like I couldn't figure it out.
(42:24):
I was like, I don't want to do it, and
then that had repercussions, so I think and then our
industry is just so different now and it's just like
it certainly has forced me to, you know, supercharge the
therapy and try to find different therapeutic modalities that can help,
(42:44):
and try to get right in a way that everyone
should do, whether you're you know, whether you've changed or
not and everyone has, or whether you have to, whether
your identity is defined by your career or whether it's not.
You know, so long answer is yes.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, it's been a journey so similar to my experience
with my business and my family and COVID and all
the things I got therapy, I got on medication started
talking about mental health.
Speaker 3 (43:19):
What do you do now to protect your mental health?
Speaker 1 (43:24):
I mean to protect it? I mean, I know, the things.
Speaker 3 (43:29):
You wouldn't have known to do before.
Speaker 1 (43:31):
Well, yeah, I mean for me, you know, the question
comes at an interesting time because you know, you you
reached out to me at a time where I was
at an odd you know, mentally, I was at a
kind of a dark spot and I was like, you know,
I was like talking about myself seemed like the worst possible.
It seems literally a nightmare, which it always kind of
(43:52):
has been. But I you know, to me, it's about
being aware of where you're at. I just did something.
I'm sure you've maybe heard of the Hoffman process, have
you heard? Yeah, So I just got back from that,
you know, fairly recently, which was fantastic, and you know,
you kind of you know, gain new tools too to
(44:15):
be aware and be uh and and uh and take
care of yourself mentally, which was super helpful. And it's
I think it's just about leaning into new possibilities and
not sticking with the same thing, whether it's you know,
you're doing traditional talk therapy for a long time and
maybe you think that it's just that's the it's just fine.
(44:38):
It's being like, no, maybe we should try something different.
It's not you know, it's not working out the same muscle.
So I think it's about, you know, like almost anything
in life, it's the willingness to adapt, evolve and change.
Speaker 3 (44:52):
Yep.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And what's your relationship This also comes up a lot
on the pod. What's your relationship with social media?
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Phones? It's all that stuff.
Speaker 1 (45:01):
Yeah, I mean, my you know, I'm a bit of
a lot. I mean, I I don't really engage. I
don't really engage in social media at all. Not because
I'm like it's the great evil, even though I think
it is. But I also think it's great. I think
it's every people have, you know, litigated this for a
(45:23):
long time. You don't need my voice on that. But personally,
I just find it so addictive. Like whenever I'm on
my you know, I'm not really on social media. I
have like a page that, you know, because once in
a while I need to reach out to people, right,
but I'm not. I don't engage at all, and I'm
still on my phone. Yesterday, I was trying to work.
(45:44):
I had work to do, I had to give notes
on a script, and I kept on being on my phone.
I would I literally throw my phone in anger focus
and then I find myself going for the phone and
then I'm I'm a monkey. So I unders I just
can't do it. You know, I talked to I mentioned
(46:06):
that Hoffmann process. During that, you know, it's like a
week long kind of emotional boot camp, and you have
no there's no phones, there's nothing, And the effect that
it had on me was astoun It was just like
you're so present, it's like it feels amazing just that,
and we grew up in a time where we didn't
(46:27):
have that shit, So you know, I know that it's
a drug. I like drugs a lot, and I have
to keep myself away from drugs. So to me, it's
you know, it's baked into the cake, and I try
to stay off of it with with with my kids,
I'm really strict about kind of screens in general. I
(46:48):
got my I actually got my my eleven year old
and Apple Watch recently, and I regret it. Just the
Apple Watch. He's not even on it, and I'm just like,
it's this umbilical cord. It's the bilical cord of all
of these kind of social media phones anything that I
think is kind of part of the danger, not just
the distraction, but I I my main thing is trying
(47:13):
to be like a a curator of content as much
as I can of like I'm showing my kids movie
you know, like let's watch movies that are great instead
of just like going on YouTube shorts, which once in
a while is fine, but trying to like get you know,
work out the attention span. I think that's the great
(47:34):
thing now of that even adults need to do is
they need we need to work on our attention span
so we can actually, you know, consume longer form narrative
and all that stuff and tell my kids love stories
and really tell longer stories and not just skibbity toilet.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
The worst. S give me, toilet is the worst. If
I have to hear that one more time in my.
Speaker 1 (47:56):
House, I wish I understood it.
Speaker 2 (47:58):
But yeah, oh same, Yeah, at least at least we
have Riz.
Speaker 1 (48:02):
We have Riz, have Riz. We have so much Riz.
Speaker 3 (48:04):
We have Ris. Okay, so what's coming up?
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I have this movie called Nuked that that I'm in.
It's a great ensemble cast that I also helped produce
and put together, and it was kind of born out
of the pandemic and it's an adult relationship stoner comedy,
which you don't get a lot of these days. It's
an actual comedy. I can promise you that there are
(48:43):
laughs and that it's it's coming out on July eleventh,
same day that's Superman. So if you're not looking forward
to seeing Superman, which is me, okay, maybe stay at
home with a drink or a joint with a loved
one and rent this movie Nuke. I guarantee it is
a good time and it's a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 (49:03):
Oh, I can't wait. I will absolutely do that.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
Because I stay away from superheroes and comic books.
Speaker 1 (49:07):
I listen for the family. I guess those are fine.
But this is like when was the last time you
saw a good relationship comedy?
Speaker 3 (49:16):
Yes, exactly, I love it. I live for that perfect
I do too.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
So I made one for you, and I'd love for
you to see it, just for me, just for me.
Speaker 3 (49:25):
Great nuked, we'll see it. Okay, let's go to a
lightning round.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
What's your best high school memory?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
You know, I would you know it's as the actor.
I would say that first time that I got on
stage was at in high school playing the janitor and
Inherit the wind and Meeker and just sweeping the stage.
I was just like, all of a sudden, it was
like the first time that I really remember remember being
(50:00):
in like a flow state that I think we all
kind of try to get to these days.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Cool rank vs. Friends, Fraser Seinfeld.
Speaker 1 (50:11):
Well, Seinfeld's one, Yep, it's correct. I mean, I guess
Fraser than Friends. I wasn't the biggest Friends fan. I mean,
I like it, but you know, I didn't really watch
Fraser that much. I don't know, it isn't toss. I
did a little. Yeah, I mean I liked, you know,
to me to us the Fraser thing, even though it's
(50:32):
a brilliant show. Like I love Cheers, so Fraser is
always a spin off of Cheers to me that I
couldn't quite so like Cheers would be number one. But
but I guess Fraser than Friends.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Yeah. National Treasure one or two?
Speaker 1 (50:49):
I mean, that's not for me to decide. To tell
me as the fan, you tell me which one you like.
Speaker 2 (50:55):
Gosh, they're both great in their own way.
Speaker 3 (50:58):
I love.
Speaker 2 (51:00):
I mean, I love the American history of National Treasure,
yeah one so much. And you know, Philadelphia and I
grew up in New England, so all those stories are
like very close to me.
Speaker 3 (51:14):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
But I also love I love the President and the
second one.
Speaker 3 (51:18):
And that's sort of leading into all of.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
Your conspiracy theories. That's a really fun strain in it.
And I love that you go to Europe in the
second one. I mean, they're both great. Will there be
a National Treasure three? Everyone wants to know.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
I mean, it's they've been trying for so many years.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
So long.
Speaker 1 (51:35):
I mean, it's it's tough. I mean it's the question
that I could probably get asked the most, and you know, yeah,
I mean I think we've gotten close recently. Okay, Nick's
obviously killing it and doing great work. Yeah, I think
so much of it is the economics of it, all
of like, you know, these big Disney movies and blah
blah blah. But they have been working on a script
for quite a while. I don't think it's going to
(51:57):
happen any time soon, but I think if all the
people can get back together. John turtletob is the director
who's the secret sauce of the whole franchise. You know,
we've been we've been trying. I mean, you know, we
certainly you know, Bruckheimer's office has checked in recently. I
mean it's definitely still it's definitely still out alive. It's alive,
(52:18):
still alive.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Okay, cross cross fingers. Who's an actor you haven't worked
with yet but would like to? Well, I guess Dniro,
I mean for sure.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
I mean there's so many, Uh, there's so many. Yeah,
I mean it's yeah, I don't know. I mean, I
think Shia lah Buff is so good I would love to,
you know, spar with him. There's so many. I mean,
I haven't worked with some of the great you know
Meryl Streep.
Speaker 3 (52:47):
Sure, sure, Yeah. What's your favorite book?
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Huh? A favorite book? That's rough. I mean what what
pops into my mind is Catcher in the Rye And
it's a lot cliche, but yeah, that's I mean, that's
a good one. Yeah, I would say Catcher in the Rye.
(53:12):
There's this book called Hunger that had a huge effect
on me by Newte Hampson that I read years ago
that I really love.
Speaker 3 (53:21):
Is that fiction?
Speaker 1 (53:23):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (53:24):
Okay? What's your favorite hangover food?
Speaker 1 (53:29):
I'm not a big drinker, but you know, a nice
turkey ruben? What turkey ruben sandwich? It's just covered in
thousand Island cole slaw and ship your favorite? What's your
favorite hangover food?
Speaker 3 (53:50):
Probably like ramen Like that sounds.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
Gross to be with a hugover slurping and ship Yes.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
Roast to me?
Speaker 2 (54:02):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (54:03):
All right?
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Uh, what's what's your favorite what's your favorite book?
Speaker 3 (54:09):
Well, it's a tie.
Speaker 2 (54:10):
I really love The Stranger by Camo that's up there
to keep that it's a great one.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
And I also love Rabbit Run by John Updyke.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Oh, I haven't read Rabbit Run.
Speaker 3 (54:21):
It's great.
Speaker 2 (54:23):
What's your favorite band? And then what do you think
is the most overrated band?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
I mean favorite band that's I mean, I would say,
I would say it's I'm such a huge music head.
It's tough. I mean, I guess for life. Radiohead is
up there, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers. You know, there's
so many. I love the Stones, I love Beatles. M
(54:54):
overrated band, I don't, I don't know. It's mean. I
don't know.
Speaker 3 (54:58):
Okay, you don't have to be mean.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Yeah, I don't want to be mean. I mean, I
have so much reverence for it's you two. Oh god,
I have so much reverence for anyone that can play music.
I like, you know, if they can do it.
Speaker 2 (55:11):
Great diplomatic, I like it. Yeah, this is the last question.
It's the most important to us. We ask it at
the end of every podcast because it's important to me culturally.
Speaker 3 (55:19):
When is it iced coffee season?
Speaker 1 (55:22):
Right now? I had an iced coffee this morning.
Speaker 3 (55:24):
Great, it's cut.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
I mean sometimes I go ice coffee in the winter.
It's always ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (55:29):
That's the correct answer, justin that's the correct answer. It's
your round. Yes, it's your round.
Speaker 1 (55:34):
Depends on what I mean. If you go into if
you go somewhere that has the heat on in winter,
sometimes you want a little ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (55:40):
It has got for me. It has nothing to do
with the temperature. I just always want an iced coffee.
Speaker 1 (55:45):
That's absolutely love it for yourself. Get a frappuccino once
in a while.
Speaker 3 (55:48):
Hey, you go crazy, absolutely so what who cares? Bartha?
This was so fun? Thank you, Thank you. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
I wish I could ask you a bunch of questions
right now, but I guess for the inevitable podcast that
I start, you can.
Speaker 3 (56:03):
Ask me one question. What question would you?
Speaker 1 (56:06):
I mean, I am interested. I am interested about the
Bill maher experience and kind of like how that evolved
you've been on to me and how that evolved over
years and how you know if like you know, you're yeah,
how how is that experience?
Speaker 2 (56:22):
It's the best and the toughest thing I do in
my job. I don't get nervous for TV because I'm
on live TV all day and I don't even notice,
you know, when cameras are on. Now that's different. It's
a live audience. That's a different thing. It's once you're
not coming back anytime soon. You might be coming back
(56:44):
like next year, but you don't get to like redeem
yourself immediately. If it doesn't go right, it airs re
airs six times.
Speaker 3 (56:52):
Over one weekend.
Speaker 2 (56:54):
So if you if you do, great, that's the best
week of your life. If you don't, it's agony. It's agony.
And then depending on where I am politically in the moment,
and Bill is politically in the moment, he's either you know,
cheering me on, which is great, or an adversary, which
is tough because usually it's me against everybody else. So
(57:17):
you really have to be prepared. These are smart people
who know what they're talking about. So it's just a lot.
It's a lot, but when it goes well. First of all,
I think it's the greatest political show on television, and I've.
Speaker 1 (57:30):
Been watching him for my whole life.
Speaker 2 (57:32):
Yes, back when it's politically correct. Absolutely, he's incredibly talented.
But the producers of that show are also incredibly talented,
and it's such a well oiled machine.
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:43):
Both.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
I always really appreciate you on that show because you
don't pander to the audience. You do say, you know,
you're you have a you know, kind of in my opinion,
a centrist type of view, and I think that that's
super needed. And you know, and I always love seeing
you on there sparring.
Speaker 2 (58:01):
Thanks well, I love doing it, and thanks for saying, yeah,
all right, so do you feel better?
Speaker 3 (58:06):
You asked a question.
Speaker 1 (58:07):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I could keep going, but.
Speaker 3 (58:10):
Sure, well we can do this again. But thank you
so much. I really really loved it. Thanks for talking
about mental health.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
It always makes me happy because when we do, of
course talk about mental health, we make it easier to
talk about mental health.
Speaker 3 (58:22):
Just the point.
Speaker 1 (58:23):
Absolutely. Thanks, thank you, Essie.
Speaker 2 (58:28):
Coming up next week on Off the Cup, I sit
down and talk to singer songwriter Eric Hutchinson.
Speaker 4 (58:33):
That's the first thing I do when I write a song,
as I spend a couple of days trying to figure
out if it's someone else's song or not.
Speaker 3 (58:39):
Are you serious? Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 4 (58:41):
I know a lot of songwriters that do that. But
a lot of the times why it sounds good to
you while you're writing is because you've already heard it
somewhere else before it.
Speaker 2 (58:50):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network. If you want more,
check out the Other Reason Choice Podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill,
and natively For Off the Cup, I am your host
se Cup.
Speaker 3 (59:03):
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Our executive producers are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and
Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts,
follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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