November 20, 2025 • 26 mins
How is it that two of the biggest stories in politics today are that MAGA influencers with massive platforms are whitewashing neo-Nazis and pedophilia? Hear S.E.'s take on just how low MAGA will sink to twist reality to defend MAGA's a-moral faction (that Trump opened the door for in 2016, by the way) or help launder Jeffrey Epstein's posthumous reputation. To what end? Also, S.E. gets NewsNation anchor Leland Vittert's take on some of stories of the week.
Leland Vittert's new memoir, Born Lucky: A Dedicated Father, A Grateful Son, and My Journey with Autism, is out now.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to talking politics, where we go hard for democracy
and ask, really the only question that matters anymore?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Where do we go from here? It's rough out there, guys.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
A lot of Americans are in real economic pain, and
yet Congress just shut down the government for over a month.
It can barely function as a governing body, and now
it's consumed with the Epstein files. And I get that
this is important. Victims deserve justice. I'm all for releasing
the files, but can we also start working on making
(00:34):
Americans lives better? Can we do better for our farmers
who are drowning under these dumb tariffs? Can we do
better for our teachers who can barely make a living wage?
Can we do better for our college grads who can't
find jobs? Can we do better for aspiring homeowners who
can't afford a starter home? Can we do better for
consumers we're seeing skyrocketing grocery prices? Can we do better
(00:58):
for our vets who are going to lose vital services
due to budget and personnel cuts? What about all of that?
Is any of that important to lawmakers? Doesn't really seem
like it. And as Democrats and Republicans gear up for midterms,
these are the issues on most voters' minds.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
The party that can speak to them will win. Period.
It's not complicated, Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Today's guest is a News Nation anchor and national correspondent.
He's author of the new book Born Lucky, A Dedicated Father,
A Grateful Son, and My Journey with Autism and guess
what over at Amazon. It's on sale through Black Friday
twenty five percent off, so go grab your copy if
you don't already have it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome Leland Vindert.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you, so good to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So we're all covering all of this. What are you
noticing as you talk to lawmakers? Do they in your
view from where you sit, do they seem to get
where American voters are right now?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I think that there is a good amount of life
lawmakers who understand how angry and how much Americans are hurting.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I think they mistake that anger for wanting to make
a difference politically, And by that I mean I think
that they channel that anger as to oh, I have
to get one hundred percent from the Democrats, or oh
I have to get one hundred percent from the Republicans,
rather than mister and missus Miguilcutty just what lower grocery.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Press right, totally right, And.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
That to me is the difference of they see the anger,
but they understand it wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
And they understand it through their own lens.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Because for politicians, the way they do better is through
fundraising and cable news yets, which comes first, you can argue,
and that's by being as divisive and extreme as they
can be.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's a really
good interpretation of it. You know, I had a sense
in twenty twenty four that Trump was going to win
just because Democrats weren't weren't getting it. They kept telling
voters that I was great, crime was down, Immigration's fine,
Like seriously dumb, dumb messaging decisions. If you had to predict,
either based on where we're at right now or how
(03:10):
the pendulum typically swings against a you know, incommon administration,
how do you think the midterms are gonna go?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Really?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yeah, yeah, no, I don't do predictions, but thank you
for trying.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
What I will tell you. And this is what is
just so funny to me.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
And we've done this now twice, actually a third time
is we have put together clips back to back to
back to back of Trump and Biden talking about the economy.
They sound exactly the same. Trump and Biden talking about prices.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
They sound exactly the same.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
And last night I had Jason Smith on, congressman from
Missouri who I really like, who had broken with the
President over beef prices and other things, and he starts
railing about why beef prices are high.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
It's of the four meat packers. I said, Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And as I'm sitting there on the set, I pulled
up a press release from Joe Biden in twenty twenty
two when beef prices were way up, And what does
Joe Biden in the White House blame the four meat packers?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So it didn't work for Democrats.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, it ain't gonna work for Republicans, right, So that
I think is pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Because I have you here and this happened this week.
I just wanted to get your take as a journalist
on a couple items in the news. Trump seeming to
blame Jamal Kushoki, who was brutally murdered and dismembered by
the Saudis at the direction of the man sitting to
Trump's right in the Oval office yesterday or two days
ago for his own death, saying things happen. When asked
(04:44):
about his murder, what did you make of that moment?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I made of it that Donald Trump cares more about
the future than he does the past.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I made of it that.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
The world is a difficult place and bad things happen.
And I think there's a French affairs of French phrase.
It basically translates to affairs of state. If if the
American president was required to adjudicate everything a foreign government
(05:18):
has done, then we wouldn't get very far. So was
the murder of Jamal Koshogi wrong by Western moral standards? Yes,
it's the way the Arab world operates. And if you
put it in a zero sum game, is it better
that Saudi Arabia is a client state of the United
States or a client state of China, It's better that
(05:38):
we're there are a client state of the United States.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
But he didn't need to he didn't litigate it, and
he didn't need to blame Jamal Koshogi for it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That was a choice he made.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, I again, he've views ingratiating himself to MBS is
more important.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay, what about Trump calling a reporter on Air Force
one piggy your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I don't. Again, this is who Donald Trump is. This
is who we elected as a country. So I don't.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I don't spend a lot of time handringing what Donald
Trump does or does not say. I acknowledge that he
is who he is.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And move on. I think the.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I guess what they say is the never ending desire
or thought by those who don't like Trump that somehow
this behavior is going to be the thing that crystallizes
in everyone's mind how much Trump is bad, or that somehow,
by losing their minds over calling someone a reporter piggy
(06:47):
or saying Jamal Kashogi had it coming, or whatever it is,
that somehow Trump's supporters are going to be like, oh, okay,
after ten years and after the grabber by the p tape,
and after saying John McCain's not a war hero, and
after all these other things because he said Koshogi deserved it,
Now I don't support Trump anymore. That's not going to happen.
So I just don't. I don't think it changes.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So that's not the point of it. We're journalists.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
The point isn't to change people's minds. But the point
is to call out, to call out things that are
that are terrible.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
No, I think as a journalist, your job is to
report what happened.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Well, my job is jobs might be a little different
than yours. I understand that because I'm an opinion journalist.
But we're we're members of the press, and when Trump
is attacking the press, it might be important to call
it out.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It has nothing to.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Do with this is going to be the thing that
destroys it.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I think that's where you're coming from.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I think it's I think that the point about Trump
and the press is this. Trump is the first president
who treats the press as though they are part of
the game, like that they are players on the field.
And what I would say is that when as a
news organization with which I think certainly with ABC and
certainly with the question you know, with the reporter was
(08:01):
in the Oval office, this is somebody who's shown real bias.
This is somebody who was cover you know, who very
clearly covered for Joe Biden during the her investigation in
the transcript of that interview. And I think Trump treats
journalists as players in the game and I would say
(08:23):
the opposite, which is, once as a journalist or certainly
as an opinion journalist, once you go set foot on
the field of cable news or of broadcast news, your
fair game, like you know, it's It's amazing the number
of people who can't wait to run a play and
run offense, but the second they get hit on defense,
(08:43):
they can't take a punch and they can play.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Oh my god, we're journalists. You can't can't you can't
criticize us. Give me a break.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I mean, we get criticized all the time. Of course
we're not above reproach. But the President of the United
States calling a journalist piggy, you can't defend that.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm not I'm not defending it. I'm not I'm not defending.
I'm saying it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
But I'm sing is what it is.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
It is what it is.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
And I don't Again, I've had Donald Trump call me
lots of names.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh me too, me too, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I don't like, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
And I and the people who want run around going
oh my god, this is so terrible.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
They called me a name.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Like you make, you make, you make? How many of that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
You make, how much money you make, how much money
you talk about the names you're, you're on the field
of you're, you're, you are a player on the field,
and once you step on the field, if it's a
if it's a hit, it's a hit.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Okay, the mega media fight between like Ben Shapiro, Tucker
Carls and Meghan Cally Candice and Snick Poins, what are
your thoughts on how that's going.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
I think the group of people playing cute c and
foot see with objectively horrible human beings, of which I
put Cantie Owens and Nick Floyant is it. Nick Floyd
is not just anti semi He's a rape enthusiast. He's
a misogynist. He is a fan of Hitler. These are
(10:12):
these are totally different levels of you know, oh, I
don't like people who eat bagels. And this idea on
the on the right that because the left is accepting
of anti Semitism and the left is accepting of this
anti Israel pro hamas oppress or oppressed dynamic, that somehow
(10:35):
that absolves the right of any and all issues is
really dangerous.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And I've said it on TV.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I think what is happening is just horribly wrong and
scary is all is all get out.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I think the other thing to examine is why it's happening,
And by that I mean the idea that there is
a sizeable part of the young male population for whom
this kind of I don't want to use the word garbage,
but it is like this drug of victimhood mixed with anger,
(11:16):
mixed with revenge is somehow now appealing. That says a
lot about our society. And you know, I think it's
you know, it's one thing to just say, well, you know,
catus Oone's is terrible and Tucker Carlson shouldn't have fuente
sa on and on and on on. That's a very
different conversation because somebody is going to provide if there
is a demand for this drug, right of anti semitism,
(11:40):
rape enthusiasm, hitler loving.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Kind of stuff. Somebody is going to provide that drug.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
And the idea that there's a group of male population
in America who's interested in that should tell us a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, what do we do with that?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Because I agree, I think ID album is worse than
just someone interviewing someone.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
What do we do that that's.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
I think you really have to examine how did young
men get to this point? And I think a lot
of it has to you know, comes from twenty fifteen
or twenty twelve to twenty twenty two, when young men
were demonized and being male was demonized. And now all
of a sudden, somebody's telling young men you can act like.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Men and they're listening to it. Now is it?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
It is the messenger a bad person, Yes, But I
think that the society as a whole has to then
reevaluate how do you treat young men?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
How do you deal with young men? If you're going
to fix that problem?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah? Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
We always end with an exit poll, and it's three
questions of varying degrees of seriousness.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
The first is what is your favorite movie about politics?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Charlie Wilson's War.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Who's someone in left wing media and right wing media
that you like?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
But I like, do you mean friend?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Or do you mean now like you admire what they do?
Speaker 4 (13:03):
The I'm going to give you two on the left,
which would be matt al and tarlav Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
For an MS now, well yeah, I mean mad As
now Charles oh yes, right?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
And then right wing I would give you Hugheswett.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yep, I know you.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, I'll give you Hugh Hewett.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
And I think what Buck Sexton is doing is pretty interesting, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Buck is a friend as well. Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And finally, how do we uh, how do we protect
our democracy.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
By vigorously practicing it?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Great?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Thanks to Leland vitterert you can go buy his book
Born Lucky now and it's on sale at Amazon through
Black Friday.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And we'll be right back with my mini monologue after them, and.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Welcome back to talking politics before we get to my rant, Lauren,
do we have any mail?
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Okay? So we just have one comment that I wanted
to share.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
This was a listener who wrote in about some news
that unfortunately had already been sort of resolved.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
By the time we got to it.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Okay, but I suggested maybe they write in with some
other questions because we're all here for it. But they
did give us a really lovely comment say, but thank
you so much. The pot is a public service in
keeping us all sane. So I just wanted to share that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's so nice.
Speaker 7 (14:45):
I know it's Mac from London, I believe, or the youth.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, we got an international worldwide British fan. I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Okay, Well, thanks uh for that. And if you want
to write in, you can at Off the Cup, Cup
of two P's at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You can write in.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
About our talkin Politics episode. You can write in about
our Off the Cup celebrity interviews and mental health.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And you can also write in.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
About coffee because we do talk and coffee as well.
So give us all your thoughts, just all of them, Okay,
onto the mono. I want to take you back to
a moment in twenty sixteen. It's October seventh, and the
Washington Post drops a bombshell, just like a month before
the election, and it was.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
The perfect October surprise.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
It was a never heard before recording from an Access
Hollywood interview between Donald Trump and Billy Bush. In the recording,
which happened before the interview, while Trump and Bush are
like on a bus, the Republican nominee for President, Donald
Trump describes how he seduces women, saying I don't even wait,
(15:55):
and when you're a star, they let you do it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You can do anything. Grab by the p you can
do anything. Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
The tape certainly put Trump on defense, but as we
all know, the revelation that this man admitted to sexually
assaulting women.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It did not derail his candidacy, which you know says
a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But anyway, I bring this up because I'm reminded of
when I had to go into CNN as a you know,
thirty something new mother and discuss this on the air.
And I remember sitting across from Jake Tapper, someone who's
a friend and a colleague, someone I admire and respect,
(16:40):
and having to say those words and talk about this
sordid lude, crass gross comment and the sordid lude grass
gross Man who said it.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I felt embarrassed sitting at that table.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Actually, I couldn't believe this is what we had to
talk about. I guess it was similar during the Clinton
scandal and all those dirty details that reporters and political
commentators had to discuss on television, but it.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Was awful for me.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Nowhere in my journalism career did I think I'd be
discussing a presidential candidate who talked about grabbing peas.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Okay, well, I feel similarly today.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I cannot believe that two of the biggest stories in
politics today are that MAGA influencers with giant platforms are
whitewashing neo Nazis and whitewashing pedophilia.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I can't believe it. I cannot believe it.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I thought my capacity for surprise had reached its limits
with MAGA, I truly I did. But then Tucker Carlson
and Megan Kelly said, hold my beer, you ain't seen
nothing yet. If you haven't heard Tucker Carlson, who was
once my boss, okay, and another person I used to
(18:02):
really respect, he's devolved into a conspiracy theory spouting despot
defending neo Nazi protecting weirdo. He recently had Nick Fuentes,
a self proclaimed hitler, lover, holocaust denier, rape defender who
has said some of the most vile, disgusting things I've
(18:22):
ever heard any person say ever, on his podcast, where
Tucker did not press Nick on his hideous ideas. Instead,
he gave him a very friendly interview where he seemed
to suggest this neo Nazi's not so bad. We just
needed to get to know each other. Take a listen
to the first minute of this interview.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
Nick Quentes, thank you for doing this. Yeah, thank you
for having me.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Wanted to meet you. I've heard about you.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Hmmm, I've heard about you so well, thank you. I
want to understand what you believe, and I want to
give you a chance minute to just lay it out.
Not what you're pivoting against, which are a lot of
the same things. You know, I agree with you on
some of the things you're pivoting against, for sure, But
what do you affirmatively believe? So I just want to
stand back and let you explain it. But first I
(19:11):
want to understand how you got to where you are,
how you became Nick Fuentes. So here's I'm just this
is my understanding of your life arc, and tell me
if I'm wrong. You show up at Boston University. You
grew up in a suburb of Chicago, kind of working
class suburb of western suburb, and you show up at
Boston University in the fall of twenty sixteen, at the
(19:35):
height of the well, the battle between Trump and Hillary.
It's like this kind of pivot point in history. And
you show up with a Maga hat, and you have
a Trump hat, and you have like basically off the
shelf Republican views. Yes, and so describe what the views
that you had then, and then describe what happened.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
That's right, that's right, just a normal kid from Chicago
with off the shelf Republican views and hit.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
That guitar track. Of course, while.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
He's at Boston University, he leaves for a minute to
go down to Charlottesville to march with tiki torches, So
you know, just off the shelf Republican views. That helps
you understand the tone of this interview, which really started
this internacine battle on the right over whether Tucker was
right to do that. And then you had folks like
Ben Shapiro who've called Tucker out over this. Several board
(20:27):
members at the Heritage Foundation have resigned after its president
defended Tucker.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Meg Kelly's defending Tucker. She's blaming pro.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Israel factions on the right for unfairly attacking him over this,
because you know, it's always the Jews for in some way,
it's always the Jew's fault. And she's accusing anyone who
disagrees with Tucker for playing footsat with white supremacists, which
should be everyone, of not being real conservatives and trying
(20:56):
to enforce speech codes. Okay, it's absurd, it's disgusting, and
there's just no courage in these corners to say what
is obvious, which is that no one should help to
launder or normalize a racist, neo nazi's reputation or beliefs,
and under the guise of conservatism. Okay, but listen, Trump
(21:17):
let all of these ugly factions in back in twenty sixteen,
the Proud Boys, the oathkeepers, the white nationalists, the anti Semites,
the Islamophobes, the bigots, and the sexists and the homophobes.
Trump opened the door, and now Ben Shapiro is surprised
that people like Nick Fuents walked through it.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Now, In addition to defending Tucker for elevating quentas Ben
Kelly is also and I can't believe I'm going to
say this, helping to launder Jeffrey Epstein's posthumous reputation too.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Can you imagine that's right?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I don't know if you heard her saw it, but
on her show she well she questioned whether Epstein's preference
for fifteen year old girls actually made him a pedophile.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Take a listen.
Speaker 8 (22:05):
As for Epstein, I've said this before, butch is a reminder.
I do know somebody very very close to this case
who was in a position to know virtually everything, not everything,
but virtually everything. And this person has told me from
the start, years and years ago that Jeffrey Epstein, in
this person's view.
Speaker 7 (22:23):
Was not a pedophile.
Speaker 8 (22:24):
This is this person's view who was there for a
lot of this, but that he was into the barely
legal type, like he liked fifteen year old girls. And
I realized this is discussing. I'm definitely not trying to
make an excuse for this. I'm just giving you facts
that he wasn't into like eight year olds, but he
liked the very young teen types that could pass for
(22:46):
even younger than they were but would look legal to
a passer by.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I mean, okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
First of all, first of all, she wants you to
know someone really clear this case does not think Epstein
is a penophile, as if that's important, okay. And secondly,
this distinction she's making, which she's not defending, of course,
course of it's just facts. She's just putting it out there, right,
I'm just saying, just asking questions, folks, That's what these
guys do. I'm just asking the questions. I'm just giving
(23:18):
you the facts. She thinks it's really important that Epstein
preferred fifteen year olds to eight year olds, Okay, now
deciding that the most important thing to do with her
massive platform is to use it to do pedophile math.
That's a choice, it's a choice, but also to intimate.
That's sexually abusing and trafficking a fifteen year old girl,
(23:41):
which is not barely legal, Megan, it's just illegal.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
It's a crime.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Is somehow better than sexually abusing and trafficking an eight
year old girl is more than a choice.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's moral bankruptcy. Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
That's a ghoul who sold out for subs and clicks.
Because the person who will a actively look for ways
to put like a nicer spin on pedophilia just because
Trump himself a sex criminal may be implicated. That's a
person with no soul, Okay. And I just can't believe
(24:16):
this is where we've gotten to. I mean I can
and I can't, but still neo Nazis and pedophiles, because
in MAGA, you have to defend the absolute worst shit
in the history of history. If it helps Trump in
any way, it is garbage. And on the one hand,
it makes me really sad that this is where people
(24:36):
with massive platforms have decided to take Americans, and especially
they're taking and corrupting young minds in the process, because
a lot of Nick fouent As his fans are teenage boys.
But it also makes me hugely happy that I no
longer play in this sandbox, because for a long time
I was colleagues with some of these people. Twenty sixteen,
(24:59):
I just saw where Trump wanted to take the party
and the country, and I tapped out.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And I'm so glad I did.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I mean, I never would have lasted in it because
I'm so repulsed by Trump and I care about the
one thing he doesn't, conservatism. But I'm so glad I
don't have to do this for money or power or
fame or whatever they're doing it for. I wouldn't, of course,
but it's obviously a choice plenty of people made and
feel like they have to keep doing it. It's shameful.
(25:29):
It's absolutely shameful. Shame on them. Okay, that's it for me.
Thanks for being here with me and for wanting to
be in a space that doesn't normalize Nazis and petals.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I appreciate that, and I appreciate you. We're in this together.
We got to stick together. I'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill, and Native Land.
For Off the Cup, I am your host se Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate
and review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or subscribe
for new episodes every Wednesday.
Welcome to talking politics, where we go hard for democracy
and ask, really the only question that matters anymore?
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Where do we go from here? It's rough out there, guys.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
A lot of Americans are in real economic pain, and
yet Congress just shut down the government for over a month.
It can barely function as a governing body, and now
it's consumed with the Epstein files. And I get that
this is important. Victims deserve justice. I'm all for releasing
the files, but can we also start working on making
(00:34):
Americans lives better? Can we do better for our farmers
who are drowning under these dumb tariffs? Can we do
better for our teachers who can barely make a living wage?
Can we do better for our college grads who can't
find jobs? Can we do better for aspiring homeowners who
can't afford a starter home? Can we do better for
consumers we're seeing skyrocketing grocery prices? Can we do better
(00:58):
for our vets who are going to lose vital services
due to budget and personnel cuts? What about all of that?
Is any of that important to lawmakers? Doesn't really seem
like it. And as Democrats and Republicans gear up for midterms,
these are the issues on most voters' minds.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
The party that can speak to them will win. Period.
It's not complicated, Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
Today's guest is a News Nation anchor and national correspondent.
He's author of the new book Born Lucky, A Dedicated Father,
A Grateful Son, and My Journey with Autism and guess
what over at Amazon. It's on sale through Black Friday
twenty five percent off, so go grab your copy if
you don't already have it.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Welcome Leland Vindert.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Great to be with you.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Thank you, so good to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
So we're all covering all of this. What are you
noticing as you talk to lawmakers? Do they in your
view from where you sit, do they seem to get
where American voters are right now?
Speaker 4 (01:56):
I think that there is a good amount of life
lawmakers who understand how angry and how much Americans are hurting.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I think they mistake that anger for wanting to make
a difference politically, And by that I mean I think
that they channel that anger as to oh, I have
to get one hundred percent from the Democrats, or oh
I have to get one hundred percent from the Republicans,
rather than mister and missus Miguilcutty just what lower grocery.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Press right, totally right, And.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
That to me is the difference of they see the anger,
but they understand it wrong.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
And they understand it through their own lens.
Speaker 4 (02:36):
Because for politicians, the way they do better is through
fundraising and cable news yets, which comes first, you can argue,
and that's by being as divisive and extreme as they
can be.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's a really
good interpretation of it. You know, I had a sense
in twenty twenty four that Trump was going to win
just because Democrats weren't weren't getting it. They kept telling
voters that I was great, crime was down, Immigration's fine,
Like seriously dumb, dumb messaging decisions. If you had to predict,
either based on where we're at right now or how
(03:10):
the pendulum typically swings against a you know, incommon administration,
how do you think the midterms are gonna go?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Really?
Speaker 4 (03:20):
Yeah, yeah, no, I don't do predictions, but thank you
for trying.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
What I will tell you. And this is what is
just so funny to me.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
And we've done this now twice, actually a third time
is we have put together clips back to back to
back to back of Trump and Biden talking about the economy.
They sound exactly the same. Trump and Biden talking about prices.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
They sound exactly the same.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
And last night I had Jason Smith on, congressman from
Missouri who I really like, who had broken with the
President over beef prices and other things, and he starts
railing about why beef prices are high.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
It's of the four meat packers. I said, Uh huh.
Speaker 4 (04:03):
And as I'm sitting there on the set, I pulled
up a press release from Joe Biden in twenty twenty
two when beef prices were way up, And what does
Joe Biden in the White House blame the four meat packers?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
Uh huh.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
So it didn't work for Democrats.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
Yeah, it ain't gonna work for Republicans, right, So that
I think is pretty obvious.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Because I have you here and this happened this week.
I just wanted to get your take as a journalist
on a couple items in the news. Trump seeming to
blame Jamal Kushoki, who was brutally murdered and dismembered by
the Saudis at the direction of the man sitting to
Trump's right in the Oval office yesterday or two days
ago for his own death, saying things happen. When asked
(04:44):
about his murder, what did you make of that moment?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
I made of it that Donald Trump cares more about
the future than he does the past.
Speaker 5 (04:54):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
I made of it that.
Speaker 4 (04:57):
The world is a difficult place and bad things happen.
And I think there's a French affairs of French phrase.
It basically translates to affairs of state. If if the
American president was required to adjudicate everything a foreign government
(05:18):
has done, then we wouldn't get very far. So was
the murder of Jamal Koshogi wrong by Western moral standards? Yes,
it's the way the Arab world operates. And if you
put it in a zero sum game, is it better
that Saudi Arabia is a client state of the United
States or a client state of China, It's better that
(05:38):
we're there are a client state of the United States.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Right.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
But he didn't need to he didn't litigate it, and
he didn't need to blame Jamal Koshogi for it.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
That was a choice he made.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Yeah, I again, he've views ingratiating himself to MBS is
more important.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Okay, what about Trump calling a reporter on Air Force
one piggy your thoughts.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I don't. Again, this is who Donald Trump is. This
is who we elected as a country. So I don't.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
I don't spend a lot of time handringing what Donald
Trump does or does not say. I acknowledge that he
is who he is.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
And move on. I think the.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I guess what they say is the never ending desire
or thought by those who don't like Trump that somehow
this behavior is going to be the thing that crystallizes
in everyone's mind how much Trump is bad, or that somehow,
by losing their minds over calling someone a reporter piggy
(06:47):
or saying Jamal Kashogi had it coming, or whatever it is,
that somehow Trump's supporters are going to be like, oh, okay,
after ten years and after the grabber by the p tape,
and after saying John McCain's not a war hero, and
after all these other things because he said Koshogi deserved it,
Now I don't support Trump anymore. That's not going to happen.
So I just don't. I don't think it changes.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
So that's not the point of it. We're journalists.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
The point isn't to change people's minds. But the point
is to call out, to call out things that are
that are terrible.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
No, I think as a journalist, your job is to
report what happened.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Well, my job is jobs might be a little different
than yours. I understand that because I'm an opinion journalist.
But we're we're members of the press, and when Trump
is attacking the press, it might be important to call
it out.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
It has nothing to.
Speaker 1 (07:33):
Do with this is going to be the thing that
destroys it.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
I think that's where you're coming from.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I think it's I think that the point about Trump
and the press is this. Trump is the first president
who treats the press as though they are part of
the game, like that they are players on the field.
And what I would say is that when as a
news organization with which I think certainly with ABC and
certainly with the question you know, with the reporter was
(08:01):
in the Oval office, this is somebody who's shown real bias.
This is somebody who was cover you know, who very
clearly covered for Joe Biden during the her investigation in
the transcript of that interview. And I think Trump treats
journalists as players in the game and I would say
(08:23):
the opposite, which is, once as a journalist or certainly
as an opinion journalist, once you go set foot on
the field of cable news or of broadcast news, your
fair game, like you know, it's It's amazing the number
of people who can't wait to run a play and
run offense, but the second they get hit on defense,
(08:43):
they can't take a punch and they can play.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Oh my god, we're journalists. You can't can't you can't
criticize us. Give me a break.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I mean, we get criticized all the time. Of course
we're not above reproach. But the President of the United
States calling a journalist piggy, you can't defend that.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
I'm not I'm not defending it. I'm not I'm not defending.
I'm saying it is what it is.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
But I'm sing is what it is.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
It is what it is.
Speaker 4 (09:06):
And I don't Again, I've had Donald Trump call me
lots of names.
Speaker 2 (09:13):
Oh me too, me too, Okay, yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
I don't like, I don't care.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
And I and the people who want run around going
oh my god, this is so terrible.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
They called me a name.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Like you make, you make, you make? How many of that.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
You make, how much money you make, how much money
you talk about the names you're, you're on the field
of you're, you're, you are a player on the field,
and once you step on the field, if it's a
if it's a hit, it's a hit.
Speaker 3 (09:39):
It doesn't bother me.
Speaker 1 (09:41):
Okay, the mega media fight between like Ben Shapiro, Tucker
Carls and Meghan Cally Candice and Snick Poins, what are
your thoughts on how that's going.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
I think the group of people playing cute c and
foot see with objectively horrible human beings, of which I
put Cantie Owens and Nick Floyant is it. Nick Floyd
is not just anti semi He's a rape enthusiast. He's
a misogynist. He is a fan of Hitler. These are
(10:12):
these are totally different levels of you know, oh, I
don't like people who eat bagels. And this idea on
the on the right that because the left is accepting
of anti Semitism and the left is accepting of this
anti Israel pro hamas oppress or oppressed dynamic, that somehow
(10:35):
that absolves the right of any and all issues is
really dangerous.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
And I've said it on TV.
Speaker 4 (10:44):
I think what is happening is just horribly wrong and
scary is all is all get out.
Speaker 6 (10:52):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (10:53):
I think the other thing to examine is why it's happening,
And by that I mean the idea that there is
a sizeable part of the young male population for whom
this kind of I don't want to use the word garbage,
but it is like this drug of victimhood mixed with anger,
(11:16):
mixed with revenge is somehow now appealing. That says a
lot about our society. And you know, I think it's
you know, it's one thing to just say, well, you know,
catus Oone's is terrible and Tucker Carlson shouldn't have fuente
sa on and on and on on. That's a very
different conversation because somebody is going to provide if there
is a demand for this drug, right of anti semitism,
(11:40):
rape enthusiasm, hitler loving.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
Kind of stuff. Somebody is going to provide that drug.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
And the idea that there's a group of male population
in America who's interested in that should tell us a lot.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Yeah, what do we do with that?
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Because I agree, I think ID album is worse than
just someone interviewing someone.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
What do we do that that's.
Speaker 4 (12:03):
I think you really have to examine how did young
men get to this point? And I think a lot
of it has to you know, comes from twenty fifteen
or twenty twelve to twenty twenty two, when young men
were demonized and being male was demonized. And now all
of a sudden, somebody's telling young men you can act like.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Men and they're listening to it. Now is it?
Speaker 4 (12:26):
It is the messenger a bad person, Yes, But I
think that the society as a whole has to then
reevaluate how do you treat young men?
Speaker 3 (12:36):
How do you deal with young men? If you're going
to fix that problem?
Speaker 2 (12:39):
Yeah? Okay.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
We always end with an exit poll, and it's three
questions of varying degrees of seriousness.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
The first is what is your favorite movie about politics?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Charlie Wilson's War.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Who's someone in left wing media and right wing media
that you like?
Speaker 3 (12:58):
But I like, do you mean friend?
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Or do you mean now like you admire what they do?
Speaker 4 (13:03):
The I'm going to give you two on the left,
which would be matt al and tarlav Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
For an MS now, well yeah, I mean mad As
now Charles oh yes, right?
Speaker 4 (13:18):
And then right wing I would give you Hugheswett.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yep, I know you.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
Yeah, I'll give you Hugh Hewett.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
And I think what Buck Sexton is doing is pretty interesting, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Buck is a friend as well. Okay.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
And finally, how do we uh, how do we protect
our democracy.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
By vigorously practicing it?
Speaker 2 (13:48):
Great?
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Thanks to Leland vitterert you can go buy his book
Born Lucky now and it's on sale at Amazon through
Black Friday.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
And we'll be right back with my mini monologue after them, and.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Welcome back to talking politics before we get to my rant, Lauren,
do we have any mail?
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Okay? So we just have one comment that I wanted
to share.
Speaker 5 (14:21):
This was a listener who wrote in about some news
that unfortunately had already been sort of resolved.
Speaker 7 (14:27):
By the time we got to it.
Speaker 5 (14:29):
Okay, but I suggested maybe they write in with some
other questions because we're all here for it. But they
did give us a really lovely comment say, but thank
you so much. The pot is a public service in
keeping us all sane. So I just wanted to share that.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's so nice.
Speaker 7 (14:45):
I know it's Mac from London, I believe, or the youth.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Yeah, we got an international worldwide British fan. I love that.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Okay, Well, thanks uh for that. And if you want
to write in, you can at Off the Cup, Cup
of two P's at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
You can write in.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
About our talkin Politics episode. You can write in about
our Off the Cup celebrity interviews and mental health.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
And you can also write in.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
About coffee because we do talk and coffee as well.
So give us all your thoughts, just all of them, Okay,
onto the mono. I want to take you back to
a moment in twenty sixteen. It's October seventh, and the
Washington Post drops a bombshell, just like a month before
the election, and it was.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
The perfect October surprise.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
It was a never heard before recording from an Access
Hollywood interview between Donald Trump and Billy Bush. In the recording,
which happened before the interview, while Trump and Bush are
like on a bus, the Republican nominee for President, Donald
Trump describes how he seduces women, saying I don't even wait,
(15:55):
and when you're a star, they let you do it.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
You can do anything. Grab by the p you can
do anything. Okay.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
The tape certainly put Trump on defense, but as we
all know, the revelation that this man admitted to sexually
assaulting women.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
It did not derail his candidacy, which you know says
a lot.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
But anyway, I bring this up because I'm reminded of
when I had to go into CNN as a you know,
thirty something new mother and discuss this on the air.
And I remember sitting across from Jake Tapper, someone who's
a friend and a colleague, someone I admire and respect,
(16:40):
and having to say those words and talk about this
sordid lude, crass gross comment and the sordid lude grass
gross Man who said it.
Speaker 2 (16:54):
I felt embarrassed sitting at that table.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Actually, I couldn't believe this is what we had to
talk about. I guess it was similar during the Clinton
scandal and all those dirty details that reporters and political
commentators had to discuss on television, but it.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Was awful for me.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Nowhere in my journalism career did I think I'd be
discussing a presidential candidate who talked about grabbing peas.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Okay, well, I feel similarly today.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
I cannot believe that two of the biggest stories in
politics today are that MAGA influencers with giant platforms are
whitewashing neo Nazis and whitewashing pedophilia.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
I can't believe it. I cannot believe it.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
I thought my capacity for surprise had reached its limits
with MAGA, I truly I did. But then Tucker Carlson
and Megan Kelly said, hold my beer, you ain't seen
nothing yet. If you haven't heard Tucker Carlson, who was
once my boss, okay, and another person I used to
(18:02):
really respect, he's devolved into a conspiracy theory spouting despot
defending neo Nazi protecting weirdo. He recently had Nick Fuentes,
a self proclaimed hitler, lover, holocaust denier, rape defender who
has said some of the most vile, disgusting things I've
(18:22):
ever heard any person say ever, on his podcast, where
Tucker did not press Nick on his hideous ideas. Instead,
he gave him a very friendly interview where he seemed
to suggest this neo Nazi's not so bad. We just
needed to get to know each other. Take a listen
to the first minute of this interview.
Speaker 6 (18:45):
Nick Quentes, thank you for doing this. Yeah, thank you
for having me.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Wanted to meet you. I've heard about you.
Speaker 6 (18:50):
Hmmm, I've heard about you so well, thank you. I
want to understand what you believe, and I want to
give you a chance minute to just lay it out.
Not what you're pivoting against, which are a lot of
the same things. You know, I agree with you on
some of the things you're pivoting against, for sure, But
what do you affirmatively believe? So I just want to
stand back and let you explain it. But first I
(19:11):
want to understand how you got to where you are,
how you became Nick Fuentes. So here's I'm just this
is my understanding of your life arc, and tell me
if I'm wrong. You show up at Boston University. You
grew up in a suburb of Chicago, kind of working
class suburb of western suburb, and you show up at
Boston University in the fall of twenty sixteen, at the
(19:35):
height of the well, the battle between Trump and Hillary.
It's like this kind of pivot point in history. And
you show up with a Maga hat, and you have
a Trump hat, and you have like basically off the
shelf Republican views. Yes, and so describe what the views
that you had then, and then describe what happened.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
That's right, that's right, just a normal kid from Chicago
with off the shelf Republican views and hit.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
That guitar track. Of course, while.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
He's at Boston University, he leaves for a minute to
go down to Charlottesville to march with tiki torches, So
you know, just off the shelf Republican views. That helps
you understand the tone of this interview, which really started
this internacine battle on the right over whether Tucker was
right to do that. And then you had folks like
Ben Shapiro who've called Tucker out over this. Several board
(20:27):
members at the Heritage Foundation have resigned after its president
defended Tucker.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Meg Kelly's defending Tucker. She's blaming pro.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Israel factions on the right for unfairly attacking him over this,
because you know, it's always the Jews for in some way,
it's always the Jew's fault. And she's accusing anyone who
disagrees with Tucker for playing footsat with white supremacists, which
should be everyone, of not being real conservatives and trying
(20:56):
to enforce speech codes. Okay, it's absurd, it's disgusting, and
there's just no courage in these corners to say what
is obvious, which is that no one should help to
launder or normalize a racist, neo nazi's reputation or beliefs,
and under the guise of conservatism. Okay, but listen, Trump
(21:17):
let all of these ugly factions in back in twenty sixteen,
the Proud Boys, the oathkeepers, the white nationalists, the anti Semites,
the Islamophobes, the bigots, and the sexists and the homophobes.
Trump opened the door, and now Ben Shapiro is surprised
that people like Nick Fuents walked through it.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Come on.
Speaker 1 (21:37):
Now, In addition to defending Tucker for elevating quentas Ben
Kelly is also and I can't believe I'm going to
say this, helping to launder Jeffrey Epstein's posthumous reputation too.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Can you imagine that's right?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
I don't know if you heard her saw it, but
on her show she well she questioned whether Epstein's preference
for fifteen year old girls actually made him a pedophile.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
Take a listen.
Speaker 8 (22:05):
As for Epstein, I've said this before, butch is a reminder.
I do know somebody very very close to this case
who was in a position to know virtually everything, not everything,
but virtually everything. And this person has told me from
the start, years and years ago that Jeffrey Epstein, in
this person's view.
Speaker 7 (22:23):
Was not a pedophile.
Speaker 8 (22:24):
This is this person's view who was there for a
lot of this, but that he was into the barely
legal type, like he liked fifteen year old girls. And
I realized this is discussing. I'm definitely not trying to
make an excuse for this. I'm just giving you facts
that he wasn't into like eight year olds, but he
liked the very young teen types that could pass for
(22:46):
even younger than they were but would look legal to
a passer by.
Speaker 2 (22:53):
I mean, okay, all right.
Speaker 1 (22:56):
First of all, first of all, she wants you to
know someone really clear this case does not think Epstein
is a penophile, as if that's important, okay. And secondly,
this distinction she's making, which she's not defending, of course,
course of it's just facts. She's just putting it out there, right,
I'm just saying, just asking questions, folks, That's what these
guys do. I'm just asking the questions. I'm just giving
(23:18):
you the facts. She thinks it's really important that Epstein
preferred fifteen year olds to eight year olds, Okay, now
deciding that the most important thing to do with her
massive platform is to use it to do pedophile math.
That's a choice, it's a choice, but also to intimate.
That's sexually abusing and trafficking a fifteen year old girl,
(23:41):
which is not barely legal, Megan, it's just illegal.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
It's a crime.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Is somehow better than sexually abusing and trafficking an eight
year old girl is more than a choice.
Speaker 2 (23:52):
That's moral bankruptcy. Okay.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
That's a ghoul who sold out for subs and clicks.
Because the person who will a actively look for ways
to put like a nicer spin on pedophilia just because
Trump himself a sex criminal may be implicated. That's a
person with no soul, Okay. And I just can't believe
(24:16):
this is where we've gotten to. I mean I can
and I can't, but still neo Nazis and pedophiles, because
in MAGA, you have to defend the absolute worst shit
in the history of history. If it helps Trump in
any way, it is garbage. And on the one hand,
it makes me really sad that this is where people
(24:36):
with massive platforms have decided to take Americans, and especially
they're taking and corrupting young minds in the process, because
a lot of Nick fouent As his fans are teenage boys.
But it also makes me hugely happy that I no
longer play in this sandbox, because for a long time
I was colleagues with some of these people. Twenty sixteen,
(24:59):
I just saw where Trump wanted to take the party
and the country, and I tapped out.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
And I'm so glad I did.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
I mean, I never would have lasted in it because
I'm so repulsed by Trump and I care about the
one thing he doesn't, conservatism. But I'm so glad I
don't have to do this for money or power or
fame or whatever they're doing it for. I wouldn't, of course,
but it's obviously a choice plenty of people made and
feel like they have to keep doing it. It's shameful.
(25:29):
It's absolutely shameful. Shame on them. Okay, that's it for me.
Thanks for being here with me and for wanting to
be in a space that doesn't normalize Nazis and petals.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I appreciate that, and I appreciate you. We're in this together.
We got to stick together. I'll see you next week.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill, and Native Land.
For Off the Cup, I am your host se Cup.
Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are me Se Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate
and review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or subscribe
for new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.