July 2, 2025 • 39 mins
This week, S.E. challenges her cardinal rule here on Off the Cupp (no politics!) with a most delightful and very much politically engaged guest, Bradley Whitford. It's not just Bradley's tenure as White House Chief of Staff Josh Lyman in Aaron Sorkin's beloved drama the West Wing that makes him particularly political. Bradley is also putting himself in the mix every chance he gets — advocating for political candidates, policies, and social justice issues. He just can't help himself. S.E. and Bradley talk about his childhood as youngest kid, "the mistake's friend," finding his people through theater, and some incredible near misses in his illustrious career. They also talk about the sometimes debilitating power of confidence, monitoring their media intake, stimulation overload. It's also a very presidential lightning round!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
The business is. It's a horrible business. It really is
like dating a schizophrenic, even if you're lucky. But one
they have always felt is, oh I found my people.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
This is going to be a good one. As you know,
we don't do politics here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Off the Cup is a break from all of that,
so we'll have to dance around it a little.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Bit with today's guest.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Because as much as he's renowned for his many acting credits,
everything from The West Wing to Get Out, The Handmaid's
Tale and The Post, he's as well known for his
passion for politics. But because this is Off the Cup,
where we talk about career arcs and parenting and mental
health too, we're going to get into all of it.
(00:52):
Bradley Whitford is an Emmy Award winning actor of stage, television,
and film, and he's also a very involved activist, campaigning
for both issues and candidates, putting himself right in the
middle of all the action.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm a huge fan of all of his work. Welcome
to Off the Cup. Bradley Whitford as the Coup.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I'm good. I'm so glad you're here. We've crosspaths on
social media for years, and I'm just so glad we're
finally getting to talk.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm thrilled to talk to you. You know. It's interesting
we're talking about avoiding the anxiety of politics, yep. And
it's something I have had to do consciously, between shooting
and advocating and shooting nights and then going to political
(01:42):
events a couple of times twice I and I've never
in my life done this. I keeled over, I like fainted, really, yeah,
which I think is beyond liberal tiers. What the right
has been going for is just to have progressives topple over.
My doctor basically said to me, you're in your sixties.
(02:03):
You can't do all nighters and you can't let politics
destroy you. And my wife and I have very self
consciously monitored my media intake, but I continue to advocate,
I think partially out of it's an aspiration to mental health.
I feel like if I don't speak up within reason,
(02:27):
I'm going to lose my mind.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yes, you have children, correct, Yes, so we're all dealing
with we look at wonder with at our children at
how are they going to handle this world where we
are bombarded with so much stimuli in ways I don't
think we have just don't have an immune system for
(02:52):
and you've got a political movement intentionally sort of using that.
It's a very difficult balance that I kind of struggle
with every day.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You're not alone.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And like I said, even though we don't talk about
politics here, this comes up a lot because people are
very anxious about the world. And I know, being both
a journalist in politics, but also I'm an advocate myself
and an activist on some humanitarian causes. Getting involved and
(03:23):
whether it was like the Serian Civil War was good
for my mental health. It made me feel less helpless
and hopeless because I was doing something about this giant
problem that in a way, it made me feel more centered.
Now I had to monitor that as well, because I
would start taking that home with me, and all the
(03:43):
world's conflicts and awful images, I started taking that home.
And so it's a very You have to be so
intentional with news consumption, advocacy, your causes that are so
important to you.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And your mental health.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You really have to be aware and set those boundaries
so that the two aren't in conflict, the two aren't
hurting you, but you're healthy.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
All right.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I want to talk about you and your work.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
But first we have to start with the Aaron Sorkin
of it all, because I'm I'm a huge Sorkin fan,
especially a few good men, but also of course the
American President and West Wing obviously, but also I consulted
on the newsroom for Aaron and got to meet him
and work with him, and he's just the most wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I having dinner with him tonight. Stop true, I'll say hi.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Oh, please say hi for me. I talk to him
every now and then and adore him.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I always say about Aaron. I set it to his face.
Believe me, there's a lot of luck involved in being
able to make a living at this particular high school
extracurricular activity. Yep. But Aaron has truly given me my
career twice.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, let's start with the first and a few good
men to play.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
People always say like, how do you get West Wing?
This is how I got West Wing? Yeah, yeah, I
got cast in Revenge of the Nerds to colon Nerds
in Paradise, which is pretty much the godfather too of
the Nerds indeed movies, and there's a guy named Tim
Bussfield in it, and Tim played Poindexter with the violin
(05:29):
and the erections. And Tim and I were theater rats
and we were shooting this movie in Fort Lauderdale during
spring break.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, it's a good opening line at a bar.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
What do you do here?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I'm shooting a movie. Yeah. But Tim and I went
to the Humana Festival, which is a one act theater
festival in Louisville, and we bonded doing that movie. Tim
was doing thirty something. Tim replaced Tom Holts in A
Few Good Men. Tim basically said to Aaron, you should
(06:10):
see this guy. I auditioned to play what's the Kevin
Bacon part?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Jack Ross? Jack Jack Ross?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, way to go smile on Jack rossp And I said,
it's turned out to be a career strategy of mine.
But I said, I really want to understudy the lead
if that's possible. Yes, And I did, yes, and Dan
Cathy Yes. I suggest that everybody who wants to be
(06:39):
an actor understudy all you can. It's terrifying. The audience
is not happy when you go on, but it's a
great way to get double the experience. YEA and Aaron
at a moment, no disrespect to me, but at a
moment when the play was appeared to be waning, when
that lead role should go to a again no offense
(07:01):
to me, a fading television star, Aaron said, no, I
think this guy should play it. And it was an
incredibly huge shot to give me. My dressing room at
the Music Box. Theater was bigger than my apartment. We
had a twenty four hour back then security guard. I
(07:24):
moved my dog Luke in and I had this magical experience.
I was the lead in a Broadway play and it
was an incredible, incredible thing. So Aarin then came to
see me a couple of years later in a play
(07:45):
called Three Days of Rain, and he wanted to know
if I was interested in doing a television show that
he was going to do called Sports Night yep, and
I could not do it because my oldest child was
about to be born and I had been offered a
(08:05):
part on a picked up on the air thirteen episode
show called The Secret Lives of Men, and Aaron understood
that with a kid coming, we didn't. Aaron was totally
untested in television. I didn't say it to him at
the time, but he was writing big movies at that point,
(08:28):
I thought he would write the pilot and then never
write another episode of Sports Night. Right, the opposite happened.
Secret Lives of Men did not work out great and
he had this incredible, interesting show called The Sports Night
that I was jealous of. Then West Wing comes along
(08:49):
and it was a fascinating audition process. I knew what
to do to get ready for Aaron. I know that
you got to have those lines not just memorized, but subconscious.
And I was walking through the Canyons and Hollywood off
book for weeks working on this Josh Lymon part which
(09:11):
he had said he had written for me and felt
like it fit like a glove. But anyway, I had
the best audition in my life. Could not have been better.
I get home, Aaron calls me, He's like, hit it
out of the park. It made me look great Erin
didn't have the power to cast back then. And then
we found out that Warner Brothers didn't feel that way.
(09:32):
Tommy Schlami, who was our executive producer, did not feel
that way. And then it became a real struggle. And
I'm still with my manager of thirty years because she
would not take no for an answer. Amazing and that's
really rare because Warner Brothers is saying stop. They said
(09:54):
to her, what do you not understand Brad Richard is
not going to get this part. Oh my god. And
she persisted, and I got a call. I was I
had this brand new thing called a car phone. I
got a call in Santa Monica while I was pumping
gas and it was Aaron and he said, we've cast you.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And I was like, oh my god. Oh and it
had been months and he said, but you're playing Sam
And I said, Aaron, I should It was not a
card I should play, but like, I'm not the guy
with the hooker on the guy with the Christian right
And he said, give me a second. I think it
(10:38):
was because they were playing hardball with Rob Low in
a negotiation and they were probably undercut him. But Aaron
came back and again advocated for me. Yeah, and totally
changed my life to be able to surf on that
writing and on that guy's mind in that moment. I
(11:00):
am forever grateful. Oh if that had to happen, maybe
something else would have happened. But if I had not
had that experience, yeah, I mean it was twenty two
episodes a year for seven years. That's an experience I
ache for young actors because they won't get it now. Yeah,
(11:21):
season after season, it's acting when you're ready, when you're
not ready, when you're tired. Right, That experience completely changed
my life.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And it was such an iconic show. But you're right.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Today, you know they're doing white Lotus style shows with
like new casts every season. Or you know you're on
a Game of Thrones and you could be the star
and die in the first episode. You know, you don't
have the same kind of stability that you could back
when these long running sitcoms were prevailing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Or that community, that intense level, familial level of intimacy.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, and we're a very close I'm sure. Yeah, yeah,
I can tell.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, we remain close. But yeah, now you know Handmaid's Tale,
I feel very close. We were lucky to have six seasons,
but we shot six seasons over ten years. Yeah, ten episodes,
and it wasn't that daily grind. Now, that daily grind
punishing for the crew, certainly for Aaron in some ways.
(12:32):
In many ways, that was too much, But there was
an experience there that was invaluable to me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I want to go back a little bit and talk
about you grew up in Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I want to know what kind of you were.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I'm the baby in a big family. My parents had
three kids, a big break. My mom claims she was
trying to get pregnant the entire time, and then in
her forties had my brother, the Mistake, And I'm basically
the Mistake's friend because we didn't want They didn't want Dave. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So when you get a puppy to keep your other puppy.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Company, yeah exactly. So I was there as the designated playmate.
So when he went to college, they were, you know,
in their sixties looking at me like mission accomplished. Not really.
So I was raised. I feel very, very lucky because
I was that last kid who they were choosing to have.
And now that I've had kids, my parents were incredibly loving,
(13:50):
incredibly supportive. My fundamental memory of my childhood that every
child should have is that every time I in the room,
they kind of lit up. They knew they were at
the end of this. They had grown children. I have
a sister's eighty five. Yeah, my sister was in college
(14:12):
when I was born. Their parental philosophy was love them
and keep them out of traffic because they're going to
be whatever they are, and I feel very lucky. I
always think about how different parenting is now, inevitably, and
I'm not saying I was any better at what it
(14:32):
seems like I'm going to criticize now. I feel like
now raising kids, we all in a very well intentioned way,
and if we're lucky, are basically looking at our kids going, Okay,
we're totally cool. But what are you because we'll support it, right,
(14:54):
just are you an athlete, We'll do that. Are you
an artist? Are you academic? Do it? There was none
of that right my father. I always tell the story.
My father loved me, and my father really believed in education.
And in the spring of my senior year of high school,
he took a sip of his coffee at breakfast and said,
(15:18):
did you apply to college? And part of it was
in Wisconsin, if you got to if you had to
be average, go to the university. There was no pressure.
So I had a corny experience doing a play in
seventh grade. I was vividly remember being backstage about to
(15:41):
go on in seventh grade and I'd seen my brother
do a play and it terrified me. I had seen
my sister high school play. I was like, it was
like watching a car wreck, Like why would anybody put
themselves in that in that position? And I go through
this feeling all the time. I'm still to this day,
(16:01):
like you could sentence people to this and crime would
go down. And then I made this entrance and it
was as close to an epiphany as I've ever had.
And the epiphany was, Oh my god, this is the
(16:22):
only integrated activity I've ever done. When I'm reading a book,
I have to turn off my body. When I'm doing
a sport, I have to turn off my head. This
is an immediate relationship with an audience and with other actors,
and it required everything. Here's a name drop, Bruce Springsteen wrote.
(16:46):
I met him many many years ago because he wrote
a song for Philadelphia which I was in. And he's
the sweetest guy on the planet. And I had a
discussion this discussion with him once because if I was
parenting my kid, I would have gone to that play,
and any contemporary parent I would have gone, oh my god,
I've never seen you happier. Do you want to take
(17:07):
an acting class? And I really believe that if my
dad had done that, I wouldn't have the sense of
ownership that I had by not making it pre professional.
All the way through college, I was just doing it
because I loved it. My dad, by the way, loved
(17:28):
I could tell he loved it. He was a frustrated musician,
amazing musician who didn't have the option coming out of
the depression, and I could tell he was into it.
But there was no pre professional pushing into it. And
you know, at one point in this conversation was bexteen.
I was like, what if your mom had come down
(17:49):
like with a guitar and said, oh my god, Brucie,
you got something man, And do you want to take
guitar lessons? And he said, oh, i'd be a newer
Yeah right. So it's a difficulty with parents. I certainly
did you know. With my kids, I anything they were
interested in. You know, I wanted to encourage, right, And
(18:11):
I think it's inevitable. It's just interesting to me. And
I'm grateful that all the way through college I was
just in many plays as I could be in. Yeah,
I wanted to act. I wanted to act more than
I want to be an actor. Yeah right right, And
then almost on a whim, I applied to graduate school,
(18:32):
and I remember opening this thing from Julliard and going,
Jesus Christ, I guess I'm going to be you know,
try to do this.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yep, and you did, but I have to I just
go back for a second because I'm Yeah, it's my impression.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Looking at your yearbook.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You were a class officer, debate, forensics, math team, honor Society, orchestra,
prom court student, senate, tennis, tower time, which I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yes, advanced Human Relations club.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, it sounds like a euphemism.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
What was Advanced Human Relations Club?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I don't remember, but I did. I had a great
time in high school.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Listen, I was gonna ask were you one of the
weirdos who loved high school? Because you did everything and
it seemed like you were super popular and happy. I've
seen all the pictures in your yearbook and you were
happy in all of them.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I yeah, yeah, I was. I was happy. Yeah. You know, Madison,
Wisconsin is a kind of shagger lot to me. Yeah,
incredibly kind people. You were able to cross pol and
eate between the jocks and the theater.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, clearly you did it all.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
You know. One thing I've always felt like the business
is it's a horrible business. It really is like dating
a schizophrenic, even if you're lucky. But one they have
always felt is, oh, I found my people. And those
were the theater people bull at East High School, the
theater people at Wesleyan. Juilliard was the first time where
(20:06):
it was like stressy.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Because it was competitive. It was all your people were
in one place.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, and I'm sure you dealt with you know. There
there was a psychology that I think was pretty pervasive
in the ballet world, but there was a very misguided
teaching through intimidation. Yeah, oh yeah thing. And it's interesting
because it's something that I think about. I think about
all the time and sort of dealing with the different
(20:36):
hierarchies that I deal with now. It's very difficult as
an actor not to adopt a psychology of submission that
I think is dangerous because you're at the mercy of
you know, somebody has to write a play, somebody has
to choose you. The teachers are very powerful and truly
(20:59):
the best director experiences that I've had in my life.
The ones you would think would be the most intimidating,
the namyet brilliant ones that Jordan Peel and Steven Spielberg.
They know that their self interest won't be served if
(21:21):
the actor thinks that the director knows better than the actor. Huh,
how to play the part. I think it's like parenting.
Most directors overparent Our children deserve the opportunity to surprise us, right,
and if we really love them, they can take us
(21:42):
to a surprising place rather than the controlled place, right.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Or at the very least, we want them to think
it was their idea.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh yeah, it was so funny because you're nervous about directing.
The first time I did it, I'm reading all these
directors books and I'm reading about lenses and crossing the
line and all this technical stuf. And after the first take,
I realized, Oh, this is.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Parenting exactly right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
They need structure, they need support.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
They have some independence, even if it's a false sense
of independence.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yes, we're going to pretend. We're going to pretend we're
setting them free while we manipulate them.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, Well, in addition to working with some incredible directors
in your first several years of making films, you work
with and I'm talking in the span of four years,
Harrison Ford, Robin Williams, Robert de Niro, Al Pacino, Nicole Kidman,
Clint Eastwood, Tom Hanks, Tommy Lee Jones, Susan Sarandon. Again
in four years, this is ninety to ninety four. Yeah,
(22:42):
when you're really first, I mean before that you had
done adventures, babysitting in some others, but like, this is
four years of working with the greatest actors on the planet.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yeah, what was that? I imagine it was kind of a whirlwind.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
But I also want to know what you learn and
what was disappointing in working with some of the is giants.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Wow, I've never you discovered that. For me, I do
remember watching the Oscars and realizing I was in both
clips when Pacino won and when Hanks won.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So it was Sense of a Woman and Philadelphia, Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
But also Awakenings.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I mean these were giant, giant films, beloved films.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah. I had great experiences with all of these people. Tom.
Then I've worked with Tom, can I do it it
twice or three times?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Well? You did the post?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, I've worked with him three times. And saving mister Banks,
I've clocked in with him at these different times in
his career. And Tom, you know when he did Philadelphia
Tom was thought of as a light comic actor. This
was an intense thing, and Tom at that point would say,
who was hoping to be taken seriously as an actor?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I mean you were doing Philadelphia with him kind of
as he's coming off of Big.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, right, as he's coming up. What was great
was it was an invaluable time because you see that
these extraordinary professionals and the first player I ever did
was with Kathy Bates, and it was what was reassuring
(24:30):
was to see them kind of struggle to get there.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It brings up a really interesting question to me about
the perils of confidence, because I think creatively, especially there
really is nothing worse than a totally confident actor. Yes,
I mean there really is not, Okay, because the most
(24:59):
compelling actors James Gandolfini like notoriously in agony about his
capacity to pull this off. And what you got was
this a guy lugging this sack of humanity into every moment.
(25:21):
And I think it's interesting in storytelling because it's very
difficult to gain confidence. You're always fighting to gain confidence
just so you can function. I always say to this day,
and I've had I'm blessed with more experience than I
could have ever dreamed of. But until the scene works,
(25:43):
I don't know if it will. It's a neurotic space
and the other crazy thing. Just to diverge a little bit,
but because your answer, going to Juilliard was really fascinating,
Because you're in this building. If you want to be
a dancer, if you want to play the trumpet, if
you want to be an opera singer, there is a
(26:05):
mountain of technique that you have to master before we
can even begin to know whether or not you have
whatever talent is. Right. On the other hand, I've seen
dogs be good in movies. Yeah, acting is something different.
I'm not saying it's not that there's no technique or anything,
(26:26):
but it's a much more elusive thing.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Well and in a way.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I mean, as a dancer, if you don't start early,
you've missed your window.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
It's not something you can start at twenty or eighteen.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So acting, I wouldn't say you could just pick it
up at eighteen, but you could if you were really
naturally gifted and wanted to commit to learning the craft
of it, you could.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
There's a movie that's going to come out when the
audience Sworred its Sun Dance. It's going to come out.
It's called East of Wall.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
It's all people who are acting for the first time,
and I think several of them should get out dominated
for oscars.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Blew me out of my seat.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So you're not in it? Okay, Wow East of Wall Okay. Yeah,
we'll be on the lookout for it.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Great, but it's part of the neurotic, elusive thing about acting.
I got to do in the post. I got to
do just a little with Meryl Street. But it was
fascinating because I remember, you get a call Steven Spielberg
wants you to come to his office to read a movie.
And I had known Stephen over the years I did.
(27:33):
I played with Hubert Humphrey and a thing he produced,
and I worked with his wife, Kate Capshaw, many many
years ago, so I know him a little. But you
go over to the offices and you sign a non
disclosure thing and you read a script and you're like Jesus, wow, yeah,
what an amazing story. And then as you're leaving, they
(27:55):
go Stephen wants to talk to you. Can you stay
And you're like, yes, sure, And you go into a
room and Steven walks in and he says, did you
read the script? And yeah, and would you like to
do it? Would you like to play this part? And
I think I actually did say no, Steven, I you know,
I'd rather not, right of course, And he said, part
(28:19):
of the reason I want you to do this is
I've seen a couple of things you've done and I
haven't known who you are for a second. So whatever
we're doing vocally or anything, this was I think the
only character in the movie wasn't real. It was a
composite Arthur.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
You're talking about yeah, oh interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
But he's like, change your voice a little, do some
weird with your hair and interesting? And I said are
we When do we rehearse? And he's like I don't
like to rehearse. Oh, And he's like, Meryl really wants
to rehearse. But and I was like, she's she's pretty
pretty good at acting. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I don't.
(28:56):
I don't. I don't like to rehearse. And I'm like,
when is the read through? And he's like, I don't
I like to do read throughs. He's like, Meryl really
wants to read through. I'm like, what is ed? He
said a funny thing with a laugh. He said, yeah,
I don't like read throughs because they give people the
idea that this is going to be a more democratic process.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Then you're gonna have a say in this.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But it's interesting speaking of over confidence, Steven intentionally, I
assumed because of his facility as a filmmaker, this guy
goes in with a plan, right, And the opposite is true.
He intentionally gets in there and sort of plays the
(29:41):
crew like a jazz band. He does not make decisions
in advance. It's part of the reason he's wonderful to
act with. He'll see something, he'll smell something in a
take and go on that journey. He would see Meryll.
The overwhelming sensation when Meryl Streep is doing a complicated
(30:05):
thing in front of you, I was like, oh my god,
like she's playing five pianos. Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
We're told as actors to make a choice. That's the
cliche in acting, teaching choices. It really I've always struggled
with that because it always seems to flatten things out.
And I remember watching Meryl just go through all of
these things. It really changed the way I thought about
(30:35):
acting that instead of narrowing the aperture of what a
character is or what someone is feeling. Have the balls
to throw it open and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
All right, we're gonna do a lightning round.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh God.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
The first couple questions are quiz, who do you play
on Drunk History?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
It's the Scopes Trial. I totally forget who I.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Played William Jennings Bryant, Na Jennings Bryant. Yep, you're one of.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
The voice callers on Fraser in an episode called Kissing Cousins.
What was Stu's problem?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I have absolutely no idea memory.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, I can't remember his problem.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
No, he was afraid to give up his freedom when
his girlfriend wanted him to move in and.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Get more serious.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
But a lot of people don't know that the caller
in the beginning of every Fraser episode is a celebrity.
Is a well known celebrity that you never see but
you hear them call in, and that you had one
of those wonderful roles.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I miss those. My kids get embarrassed because I always
make the joke over and over again. If we're in
a restaurant, if the waiter says, can I get you
anything else? I'm always like, yeah, A four camera sitcom in.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
La right, the good old days. I mean as a viewer,
there were the good old days for us too. If
you could play a president, because I know you played
Hubert Humphrey in all the way. If you could play
a president, who would it be?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think it would be very It's a toss up.
I would love to play FDR. I think that time
is fascinating. Yeah, I don't understand how. There is an
incredible television show, The Crown, beautifully done, beautifully written, beautifully
(32:45):
acted about a royal family. I would be very interesting.
I think the American Crown would have something to do
with FDR and would require an upstairs downstags double take.
But the other partresident I'd like to play is Eisenhower
(33:05):
because I think it would be fascinating to play a
conventionally perceived middle of the road conservative whose warnings about
many things, including the military industrial complex, would make AOC blush.
(33:27):
I just think you would be a fascinating It would
be fascinating to bring that, yes, because I know you
come from a more from the Republican background. I come
from a progressive background, and I think of the people
that used to be frustrated with and I feel like,
(33:47):
you know, George Bush looks like Abby Hoffman.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Now Mitt Romney, Oh yeah, I mean, please please? I know.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Okay, who in film not TV? Who in film has
played the best fictional president? And I can give you
a list. Morgan Freeman, Deep Impact, Bill Pullman, Independence Day,
Michael Douglass American President, Jeff Bridges, The Contender, that's my favorite,
Kevin Klein, Dave Harrison, Ford, Air Force One, John Travolta,
(34:17):
Primary Colors, Billy Bob Thornton Love. Actually, Peter Sellers Doctor
Strange Love. That's just a list of some of them.
If you have others, find.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
But it's got to be Peter Sellers in Doctor Strange Love.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Chart Well, that's a good one. It's hard to argue
with Peter Sellers. But I think Jeff Bridges in The Contender.
I'd love to see that script because from the Shark
Sandwiches and all of his little idiosyncrasies, I wonder how
much Jeff Bridges brought to that role and how much
was on the page, because it's just it's so good
and quirky and yet believable.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's a great movie.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
He's a great actor.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Okay, is the West Wing getting a reboot?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I have no idea. Aaron tonight, I'll ask Aaron tonight.
You know what I do think. I think it's probably
a mistake. I always say in television series, you want
to get out before the banana turns brown. I do
think it would be fascinating if you found a way.
We're all a little geriatric now, but if you found
(35:22):
a way to have that naive idealism confront today's political landscape. Yes,
head on, yes, not avoid that issue.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Capra's gone.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yes, now. I always thought that the shows, and I
think Aaron feels this way. You know, Oh, it's sentimental.
You know, it's a fantasy. And we were always compared
to the Sopranos, and I was like six people who
believe in the president they're serving, not a fantasy hit
man in therapy.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
That's a fantasy.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
And if you look at Aaron will always say, if
you look at what the Bartlet administration accomplished, it wasn't much. Yes, yeah,
we didn't go oh healthcare for everybody, like we really
lost a lot. And I think Aaron captured something that
(36:22):
is what I see as the real heroic political impulse.
Every one of those shows was some version of the
question of how dirty do my feet have to get
without me disappearing in the month in order to get
an inch of what I really want done? And it's
(36:44):
actually very easy to stand on principle, But how do
you get it done?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yep? Okay?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
The final question is the one that's most important to
us here. We ask it at the end of every
podcast because it's important to me culturally. When is iced
coffee season?
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I think it's I think it's three hundred and sixty
five days a year.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
That's the correct answer. That's the correct answer. It's your round,
yes answer either way.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I don't know if this is true, but I heard
that the Renaissance in Italy, Yes, happened one year after
they imported coffee, and I believe it. And these guys
were like, we should paint the fucking ceiling, man. Yeah,
like yeah, I could work on my back.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, I paint. You get the Tower of Pisa, No,
wonder why you see that guy?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
See that guy, David and Go and the guys like, yeah,
you're gonna draw him. No, man, no, I'm gonna carve
him out of what No?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
No, cutting him out of stone?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Big Stone. It's all caffeine.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
And the news or the health news, as you must know,
it's all good news on coffee.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
So we do a companion podcast here called Togg and
Coffee where we talk about all the health benefits of coffee.
And then there are always like these studies that come
out telling you what not to do with coffee.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
But coffee is good for you. Coffee is good for you.
Caffeine is good for you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
It's good for your liver, it's good for colon cancer.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Your heart yep, yeah, inflammation, yeah, we believe me. We
cover it. We cover all the important things here, Bradley,
and all the important things.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Four cups a day.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Four cups is considered okay.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah. You may irritate your teenage children, yes.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
But four cups is okay.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah, Bradley Whitford, this was such a joy and a
pressure and an honor, truly aim higher. I'm so glad
we did it. And uh yeah, I hope we cross
paths again soon.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Me too, Me too, I'm a fan, so thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Coming up next week, I talked to actor Justin Bartha
of Natural Treasure and the hangover.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
National Treasure has really kind of been this generational gift.
I've had people come up and say, I watched it
with my dying mother.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
My grandparents love that movie.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
With Hangover, you know, there's a lot of just screaming
outside of cars. I found aug you know, it's like
a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I can't go to Vegas anymore.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native
Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I am your host,
Si Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our
executive producers are me Si Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman.
Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or
subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
The business is. It's a horrible business. It really is
like dating a schizophrenic, even if you're lucky. But one
they have always felt is, oh I found my people.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
This is going to be a good one. As you know,
we don't do politics here.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Off the Cup is a break from all of that,
so we'll have to dance around it a little.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Bit with today's guest.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Because as much as he's renowned for his many acting credits,
everything from The West Wing to Get Out, The Handmaid's
Tale and The Post, he's as well known for his
passion for politics. But because this is Off the Cup,
where we talk about career arcs and parenting and mental
health too, we're going to get into all of it.
(00:52):
Bradley Whitford is an Emmy Award winning actor of stage, television,
and film, and he's also a very involved activist, campaigning
for both issues and candidates, putting himself right in the
middle of all the action.
Speaker 3 (01:06):
I'm a huge fan of all of his work. Welcome
to Off the Cup. Bradley Whitford as the Coup.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
I'm good. I'm so glad you're here. We've crosspaths on
social media for years, and I'm just so glad we're
finally getting to talk.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
I'm thrilled to talk to you. You know. It's interesting
we're talking about avoiding the anxiety of politics, yep. And
it's something I have had to do consciously, between shooting
and advocating and shooting nights and then going to political
(01:42):
events a couple of times twice I and I've never
in my life done this. I keeled over, I like fainted, really, yeah,
which I think is beyond liberal tiers. What the right
has been going for is just to have progressives topple over.
My doctor basically said to me, you're in your sixties.
(02:03):
You can't do all nighters and you can't let politics
destroy you. And my wife and I have very self
consciously monitored my media intake, but I continue to advocate,
I think partially out of it's an aspiration to mental health.
I feel like if I don't speak up within reason,
(02:27):
I'm going to lose my mind.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yes, you have children, correct, Yes, so we're all dealing
with we look at wonder with at our children at
how are they going to handle this world where we
are bombarded with so much stimuli in ways I don't
think we have just don't have an immune system for
(02:52):
and you've got a political movement intentionally sort of using that.
It's a very difficult balance that I kind of struggle
with every day.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You're not alone.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
And like I said, even though we don't talk about
politics here, this comes up a lot because people are
very anxious about the world. And I know, being both
a journalist in politics, but also I'm an advocate myself
and an activist on some humanitarian causes. Getting involved and
(03:23):
whether it was like the Serian Civil War was good
for my mental health. It made me feel less helpless
and hopeless because I was doing something about this giant
problem that in a way, it made me feel more centered.
Now I had to monitor that as well, because I
would start taking that home with me, and all the
(03:43):
world's conflicts and awful images, I started taking that home.
And so it's a very You have to be so
intentional with news consumption, advocacy, your causes that are so
important to you.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
And your mental health.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
You really have to be aware and set those boundaries
so that the two aren't in conflict, the two aren't
hurting you, but you're healthy.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
All right.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
I want to talk about you and your work.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
But first we have to start with the Aaron Sorkin
of it all, because I'm I'm a huge Sorkin fan,
especially a few good men, but also of course the
American President and West Wing obviously, but also I consulted
on the newsroom for Aaron and got to meet him
and work with him, and he's just the most wonderful.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I having dinner with him tonight. Stop true, I'll say hi.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Oh, please say hi for me. I talk to him
every now and then and adore him.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
I always say about Aaron. I set it to his face.
Believe me, there's a lot of luck involved in being
able to make a living at this particular high school
extracurricular activity. Yep. But Aaron has truly given me my
career twice.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Yes, let's start with the first and a few good
men to play.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
People always say like, how do you get West Wing?
This is how I got West Wing? Yeah, yeah, I
got cast in Revenge of the Nerds to colon Nerds
in Paradise, which is pretty much the godfather too of
the Nerds indeed movies, and there's a guy named Tim
Bussfield in it, and Tim played Poindexter with the violin
(05:29):
and the erections. And Tim and I were theater rats
and we were shooting this movie in Fort Lauderdale during
spring break.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Nice.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, it's a good opening line at a bar.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
What do you do here?
Speaker 1 (05:48):
I'm shooting a movie. Yeah. But Tim and I went
to the Humana Festival, which is a one act theater
festival in Louisville, and we bonded doing that movie. Tim
was doing thirty something. Tim replaced Tom Holts in A
Few Good Men. Tim basically said to Aaron, you should
(06:10):
see this guy. I auditioned to play what's the Kevin
Bacon part?
Speaker 3 (06:16):
Jack Ross? Jack Jack Ross?
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yeah, way to go smile on Jack rossp And I said,
it's turned out to be a career strategy of mine.
But I said, I really want to understudy the lead
if that's possible. Yes, And I did, yes, and Dan
Cathy Yes. I suggest that everybody who wants to be
(06:39):
an actor understudy all you can. It's terrifying. The audience
is not happy when you go on, but it's a
great way to get double the experience. YEA and Aaron
at a moment, no disrespect to me, but at a
moment when the play was appeared to be waning, when
that lead role should go to a again no offense
(07:01):
to me, a fading television star, Aaron said, no, I
think this guy should play it. And it was an
incredibly huge shot to give me. My dressing room at
the Music Box. Theater was bigger than my apartment. We
had a twenty four hour back then security guard. I
(07:24):
moved my dog Luke in and I had this magical experience.
I was the lead in a Broadway play and it
was an incredible, incredible thing. So Aarin then came to
see me a couple of years later in a play
(07:45):
called Three Days of Rain, and he wanted to know
if I was interested in doing a television show that
he was going to do called Sports Night yep, and
I could not do it because my oldest child was
about to be born and I had been offered a
(08:05):
part on a picked up on the air thirteen episode
show called The Secret Lives of Men, and Aaron understood
that with a kid coming, we didn't. Aaron was totally
untested in television. I didn't say it to him at
the time, but he was writing big movies at that point,
(08:28):
I thought he would write the pilot and then never
write another episode of Sports Night. Right, the opposite happened.
Secret Lives of Men did not work out great and
he had this incredible, interesting show called The Sports Night
that I was jealous of. Then West Wing comes along
(08:49):
and it was a fascinating audition process. I knew what
to do to get ready for Aaron. I know that
you got to have those lines not just memorized, but subconscious.
And I was walking through the Canyons and Hollywood off
book for weeks working on this Josh Lymon part which
(09:11):
he had said he had written for me and felt
like it fit like a glove. But anyway, I had
the best audition in my life. Could not have been better.
I get home, Aaron calls me, He's like, hit it
out of the park. It made me look great Erin
didn't have the power to cast back then. And then
we found out that Warner Brothers didn't feel that way.
(09:32):
Tommy Schlami, who was our executive producer, did not feel
that way. And then it became a real struggle. And
I'm still with my manager of thirty years because she
would not take no for an answer. Amazing and that's
really rare because Warner Brothers is saying stop. They said
(09:54):
to her, what do you not understand Brad Richard is
not going to get this part. Oh my god. And
she persisted, and I got a call. I was I
had this brand new thing called a car phone. I
got a call in Santa Monica while I was pumping
gas and it was Aaron and he said, we've cast you.
Speaker 3 (10:13):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
And I was like, oh my god. Oh and it
had been months and he said, but you're playing Sam
And I said, Aaron, I should It was not a
card I should play, but like, I'm not the guy
with the hooker on the guy with the Christian right
And he said, give me a second. I think it
(10:38):
was because they were playing hardball with Rob Low in
a negotiation and they were probably undercut him. But Aaron
came back and again advocated for me. Yeah, and totally
changed my life to be able to surf on that
writing and on that guy's mind in that moment. I
(11:00):
am forever grateful. Oh if that had to happen, maybe
something else would have happened. But if I had not
had that experience, yeah, I mean it was twenty two
episodes a year for seven years. That's an experience I
ache for young actors because they won't get it now. Yeah,
(11:21):
season after season, it's acting when you're ready, when you're
not ready, when you're tired. Right, That experience completely changed
my life.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
And it was such an iconic show. But you're right.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Today, you know they're doing white Lotus style shows with
like new casts every season. Or you know you're on
a Game of Thrones and you could be the star
and die in the first episode. You know, you don't
have the same kind of stability that you could back
when these long running sitcoms were prevailing.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Or that community, that intense level, familial level of intimacy.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, and we're a very close I'm sure. Yeah, yeah,
I can tell.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, we remain close. But yeah, now you know Handmaid's Tale,
I feel very close. We were lucky to have six seasons,
but we shot six seasons over ten years. Yeah, ten episodes,
and it wasn't that daily grind. Now, that daily grind
punishing for the crew, certainly for Aaron in some ways.
(12:32):
In many ways, that was too much, But there was
an experience there that was invaluable to me.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I want to go back a little bit and talk
about you grew up in Wisconsin.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
I want to know what kind of you were.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
I'm the baby in a big family. My parents had
three kids, a big break. My mom claims she was
trying to get pregnant the entire time, and then in
her forties had my brother, the Mistake, And I'm basically
the Mistake's friend because we didn't want They didn't want Dave. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
So when you get a puppy to keep your other puppy.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Company, yeah exactly. So I was there as the designated playmate.
So when he went to college, they were, you know,
in their sixties looking at me like mission accomplished. Not really.
So I was raised. I feel very, very lucky because
I was that last kid who they were choosing to have.
And now that I've had kids, my parents were incredibly loving,
(13:50):
incredibly supportive. My fundamental memory of my childhood that every
child should have is that every time I in the room,
they kind of lit up. They knew they were at
the end of this. They had grown children. I have
a sister's eighty five. Yeah, my sister was in college
(14:12):
when I was born. Their parental philosophy was love them
and keep them out of traffic because they're going to
be whatever they are, and I feel very lucky. I
always think about how different parenting is now, inevitably, and
I'm not saying I was any better at what it
(14:32):
seems like I'm going to criticize now. I feel like
now raising kids, we all in a very well intentioned way,
and if we're lucky, are basically looking at our kids going, Okay,
we're totally cool. But what are you because we'll support it, right,
(14:54):
just are you an athlete, We'll do that. Are you
an artist? Are you academic? Do it? There was none
of that right my father. I always tell the story.
My father loved me, and my father really believed in education.
And in the spring of my senior year of high school,
he took a sip of his coffee at breakfast and said,
(15:18):
did you apply to college? And part of it was
in Wisconsin, if you got to if you had to
be average, go to the university. There was no pressure.
So I had a corny experience doing a play in
seventh grade. I was vividly remember being backstage about to
(15:41):
go on in seventh grade and I'd seen my brother
do a play and it terrified me. I had seen
my sister high school play. I was like, it was
like watching a car wreck, Like why would anybody put
themselves in that in that position? And I go through
this feeling all the time. I'm still to this day,
(16:01):
like you could sentence people to this and crime would
go down. And then I made this entrance and it
was as close to an epiphany as I've ever had.
And the epiphany was, Oh my god, this is the
(16:22):
only integrated activity I've ever done. When I'm reading a book,
I have to turn off my body. When I'm doing
a sport, I have to turn off my head. This
is an immediate relationship with an audience and with other actors,
and it required everything. Here's a name drop, Bruce Springsteen wrote.
(16:46):
I met him many many years ago because he wrote
a song for Philadelphia which I was in. And he's
the sweetest guy on the planet. And I had a
discussion this discussion with him once because if I was
parenting my kid, I would have gone to that play,
and any contemporary parent I would have gone, oh my god,
I've never seen you happier. Do you want to take
(17:07):
an acting class? And I really believe that if my
dad had done that, I wouldn't have the sense of
ownership that I had by not making it pre professional.
All the way through college, I was just doing it
because I loved it. My dad, by the way, loved
(17:28):
I could tell he loved it. He was a frustrated musician,
amazing musician who didn't have the option coming out of
the depression, and I could tell he was into it.
But there was no pre professional pushing into it. And
you know, at one point in this conversation was bexteen.
I was like, what if your mom had come down
(17:49):
like with a guitar and said, oh my god, Brucie,
you got something man, And do you want to take
guitar lessons? And he said, oh, i'd be a newer
Yeah right. So it's a difficulty with parents. I certainly
did you know. With my kids, I anything they were
interested in. You know, I wanted to encourage, right, And
(18:11):
I think it's inevitable. It's just interesting to me. And
I'm grateful that all the way through college I was
just in many plays as I could be in. Yeah,
I wanted to act. I wanted to act more than
I want to be an actor. Yeah right right, And
then almost on a whim, I applied to graduate school,
(18:32):
and I remember opening this thing from Julliard and going,
Jesus Christ, I guess I'm going to be you know,
try to do this.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yep, and you did, but I have to I just
go back for a second because I'm Yeah, it's my impression.
Speaker 3 (18:47):
Looking at your yearbook.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
You were a class officer, debate, forensics, math team, honor Society, orchestra,
prom court student, senate, tennis, tower time, which I appreciate.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yes, advanced Human Relations club.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
Yeah, it sounds like a euphemism.
Speaker 3 (19:06):
What was Advanced Human Relations Club?
Speaker 1 (19:09):
I don't remember, but I did. I had a great
time in high school.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Listen, I was gonna ask were you one of the
weirdos who loved high school? Because you did everything and
it seemed like you were super popular and happy. I've
seen all the pictures in your yearbook and you were
happy in all of them.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
I yeah, yeah, I was. I was happy. Yeah. You know, Madison,
Wisconsin is a kind of shagger lot to me. Yeah,
incredibly kind people. You were able to cross pol and
eate between the jocks and the theater.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah, clearly you did it all.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
You know. One thing I've always felt like the business
is it's a horrible business. It really is like dating
a schizophrenic, even if you're lucky. But one they have
always felt is, oh, I found my people. And those
were the theater people bull at East High School, the
theater people at Wesleyan. Juilliard was the first time where
(20:06):
it was like stressy.
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Because it was competitive. It was all your people were
in one place.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Yeah, and I'm sure you dealt with you know. There
there was a psychology that I think was pretty pervasive
in the ballet world, but there was a very misguided
teaching through intimidation. Yeah, oh yeah thing. And it's interesting
because it's something that I think about. I think about
all the time and sort of dealing with the different
(20:36):
hierarchies that I deal with now. It's very difficult as
an actor not to adopt a psychology of submission that
I think is dangerous because you're at the mercy of
you know, somebody has to write a play, somebody has
to choose you. The teachers are very powerful and truly
(20:59):
the best director experiences that I've had in my life.
The ones you would think would be the most intimidating,
the namyet brilliant ones that Jordan Peel and Steven Spielberg.
They know that their self interest won't be served if
(21:21):
the actor thinks that the director knows better than the actor. Huh,
how to play the part. I think it's like parenting.
Most directors overparent Our children deserve the opportunity to surprise us, right,
and if we really love them, they can take us
(21:42):
to a surprising place rather than the controlled place, right.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Or at the very least, we want them to think
it was their idea.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh yeah, it was so funny because you're nervous about directing.
The first time I did it, I'm reading all these
directors books and I'm reading about lenses and crossing the
line and all this technical stuf. And after the first take,
I realized, Oh, this is.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Parenting exactly right.
Speaker 1 (22:05):
They need structure, they need support.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
They have some independence, even if it's a false sense
of independence.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yes, we're going to pretend. We're going to pretend we're
setting them free while we manipulate them.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, Well, in addition to working with some incredible directors
in your first several years of making films, you work
with and I'm talking in the span of four years,
Harrison Ford, Robin Williams, Robert de Niro, Al Pacino, Nicole Kidman,
Clint Eastwood, Tom Hanks, Tommy Lee Jones, Susan Sarandon. Again
in four years, this is ninety to ninety four. Yeah,
(22:42):
when you're really first, I mean before that you had
done adventures, babysitting in some others, but like, this is
four years of working with the greatest actors on the planet.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
Yeah, what was that? I imagine it was kind of a whirlwind.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
But I also want to know what you learn and
what was disappointing in working with some of the is giants.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Wow, I've never you discovered that. For me, I do
remember watching the Oscars and realizing I was in both
clips when Pacino won and when Hanks won.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
So it was Sense of a Woman and Philadelphia, Yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
But also Awakenings.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I mean these were giant, giant films, beloved films.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah. I had great experiences with all of these people. Tom.
Then I've worked with Tom, can I do it it
twice or three times?
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Well? You did the post?
Speaker 1 (23:42):
Yeah, I've worked with him three times. And saving mister Banks,
I've clocked in with him at these different times in
his career. And Tom, you know when he did Philadelphia
Tom was thought of as a light comic actor. This
was an intense thing, and Tom at that point would say,
who was hoping to be taken seriously as an actor?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I mean you were doing Philadelphia with him kind of
as he's coming off of Big.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
Yeah, yeah, right, as he's coming up. What was great
was it was an invaluable time because you see that
these extraordinary professionals and the first player I ever did
was with Kathy Bates, and it was what was reassuring
(24:30):
was to see them kind of struggle to get there.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It brings up a really interesting question to me about
the perils of confidence, because I think creatively, especially there
really is nothing worse than a totally confident actor. Yes,
I mean there really is not, Okay, because the most
(24:59):
compelling actors James Gandolfini like notoriously in agony about his
capacity to pull this off. And what you got was
this a guy lugging this sack of humanity into every moment.
(25:21):
And I think it's interesting in storytelling because it's very
difficult to gain confidence. You're always fighting to gain confidence
just so you can function. I always say to this day,
and I've had I'm blessed with more experience than I
could have ever dreamed of. But until the scene works,
(25:43):
I don't know if it will. It's a neurotic space
and the other crazy thing. Just to diverge a little bit,
but because your answer, going to Juilliard was really fascinating,
Because you're in this building. If you want to be
a dancer, if you want to play the trumpet, if
you want to be an opera singer, there is a
(26:05):
mountain of technique that you have to master before we
can even begin to know whether or not you have
whatever talent is. Right. On the other hand, I've seen
dogs be good in movies. Yeah, acting is something different.
I'm not saying it's not that there's no technique or anything,
(26:26):
but it's a much more elusive thing.
Speaker 3 (26:30):
Well and in a way.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
I mean, as a dancer, if you don't start early,
you've missed your window.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
It's not something you can start at twenty or eighteen.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
So acting, I wouldn't say you could just pick it
up at eighteen, but you could if you were really
naturally gifted and wanted to commit to learning the craft
of it, you could.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
There's a movie that's going to come out when the
audience Sworred its Sun Dance. It's going to come out.
It's called East of Wall.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
It's all people who are acting for the first time,
and I think several of them should get out dominated
for oscars.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Blew me out of my seat.
Speaker 3 (27:04):
So you're not in it? Okay, Wow East of Wall Okay. Yeah,
we'll be on the lookout for it.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
Great, but it's part of the neurotic, elusive thing about acting.
I got to do in the post. I got to
do just a little with Meryl Street. But it was
fascinating because I remember, you get a call Steven Spielberg
wants you to come to his office to read a movie.
And I had known Stephen over the years I did.
(27:33):
I played with Hubert Humphrey and a thing he produced,
and I worked with his wife, Kate Capshaw, many many
years ago, so I know him a little. But you
go over to the offices and you sign a non
disclosure thing and you read a script and you're like Jesus, wow, yeah,
what an amazing story. And then as you're leaving, they
(27:55):
go Stephen wants to talk to you. Can you stay
And you're like, yes, sure, And you go into a
room and Steven walks in and he says, did you
read the script? And yeah, and would you like to
do it? Would you like to play this part? And
I think I actually did say no, Steven, I you know,
I'd rather not, right of course, And he said, part
(28:19):
of the reason I want you to do this is
I've seen a couple of things you've done and I
haven't known who you are for a second. So whatever
we're doing vocally or anything, this was I think the
only character in the movie wasn't real. It was a
composite Arthur.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
You're talking about yeah, oh interesting.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
But he's like, change your voice a little, do some
weird with your hair and interesting? And I said are
we When do we rehearse? And he's like I don't
like to rehearse. Oh, And he's like, Meryl really wants
to rehearse. But and I was like, she's she's pretty
pretty good at acting. And he's like, yeah, yeah, I don't.
(28:56):
I don't. I don't like to rehearse. And I'm like,
when is the read through? And he's like, I don't
I like to do read throughs. He's like, Meryl really
wants to read through. I'm like, what is ed? He
said a funny thing with a laugh. He said, yeah,
I don't like read throughs because they give people the
idea that this is going to be a more democratic process.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Then you're gonna have a say in this.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
But it's interesting speaking of over confidence, Steven intentionally, I
assumed because of his facility as a filmmaker, this guy
goes in with a plan, right, And the opposite is true.
He intentionally gets in there and sort of plays the
(29:41):
crew like a jazz band. He does not make decisions
in advance. It's part of the reason he's wonderful to
act with. He'll see something, he'll smell something in a
take and go on that journey. He would see Meryll.
The overwhelming sensation when Meryl Streep is doing a complicated
(30:05):
thing in front of you, I was like, oh my god,
like she's playing five pianos. Wow.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:14):
We're told as actors to make a choice. That's the
cliche in acting, teaching choices. It really I've always struggled
with that because it always seems to flatten things out.
And I remember watching Meryl just go through all of
these things. It really changed the way I thought about
(30:35):
acting that instead of narrowing the aperture of what a
character is or what someone is feeling. Have the balls
to throw it open and see what happens.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
All right, we're gonna do a lightning round.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Oh God.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
The first couple questions are quiz, who do you play
on Drunk History?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
It's the Scopes Trial. I totally forget who I.
Speaker 3 (31:20):
Played William Jennings Bryant, Na Jennings Bryant. Yep, you're one of.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
The voice callers on Fraser in an episode called Kissing Cousins.
What was Stu's problem?
Speaker 1 (31:32):
I have absolutely no idea memory.
Speaker 3 (31:35):
Yeah, I can't remember his problem.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
No, he was afraid to give up his freedom when
his girlfriend wanted him to move in and.
Speaker 3 (31:42):
Get more serious.
Speaker 2 (31:44):
But a lot of people don't know that the caller
in the beginning of every Fraser episode is a celebrity.
Is a well known celebrity that you never see but
you hear them call in, and that you had one
of those wonderful roles.
Speaker 1 (31:57):
I miss those. My kids get embarrassed because I always
make the joke over and over again. If we're in
a restaurant, if the waiter says, can I get you
anything else? I'm always like, yeah, A four camera sitcom in.
Speaker 2 (32:10):
La right, the good old days. I mean as a viewer,
there were the good old days for us too. If
you could play a president, because I know you played
Hubert Humphrey in all the way. If you could play
a president, who would it be?
Speaker 1 (32:23):
I think it would be very It's a toss up.
I would love to play FDR. I think that time
is fascinating. Yeah, I don't understand how. There is an
incredible television show, The Crown, beautifully done, beautifully written, beautifully
(32:45):
acted about a royal family. I would be very interesting.
I think the American Crown would have something to do
with FDR and would require an upstairs downstags double take.
But the other partresident I'd like to play is Eisenhower
(33:05):
because I think it would be fascinating to play a
conventionally perceived middle of the road conservative whose warnings about
many things, including the military industrial complex, would make AOC blush.
(33:27):
I just think you would be a fascinating It would
be fascinating to bring that, yes, because I know you
come from a more from the Republican background. I come
from a progressive background, and I think of the people
that used to be frustrated with and I feel like,
(33:47):
you know, George Bush looks like Abby Hoffman.
Speaker 3 (33:50):
Now Mitt Romney, Oh yeah, I mean, please please? I know.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Okay, who in film not TV? Who in film has
played the best fictional president? And I can give you
a list. Morgan Freeman, Deep Impact, Bill Pullman, Independence Day,
Michael Douglass American President, Jeff Bridges, The Contender, that's my favorite,
Kevin Klein, Dave Harrison, Ford, Air Force One, John Travolta,
(34:17):
Primary Colors, Billy Bob Thornton Love. Actually, Peter Sellers Doctor
Strange Love. That's just a list of some of them.
If you have others, find.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
But it's got to be Peter Sellers in Doctor Strange Love.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
Chart Well, that's a good one. It's hard to argue
with Peter Sellers. But I think Jeff Bridges in The Contender.
I'd love to see that script because from the Shark
Sandwiches and all of his little idiosyncrasies, I wonder how
much Jeff Bridges brought to that role and how much
was on the page, because it's just it's so good
and quirky and yet believable.
Speaker 3 (34:52):
It's a great movie.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
He's a great actor.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Okay, is the West Wing getting a reboot?
Speaker 1 (34:58):
I have no idea. Aaron tonight, I'll ask Aaron tonight.
You know what I do think. I think it's probably
a mistake. I always say in television series, you want
to get out before the banana turns brown. I do
think it would be fascinating if you found a way.
We're all a little geriatric now, but if you found
(35:22):
a way to have that naive idealism confront today's political landscape. Yes,
head on, yes, not avoid that issue.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Capra's gone.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yes, now. I always thought that the shows, and I
think Aaron feels this way. You know, Oh, it's sentimental.
You know, it's a fantasy. And we were always compared
to the Sopranos, and I was like six people who
believe in the president they're serving, not a fantasy hit
man in therapy.
Speaker 3 (35:57):
That's a fantasy.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
And if you look at Aaron will always say, if
you look at what the Bartlet administration accomplished, it wasn't much. Yes, yeah,
we didn't go oh healthcare for everybody, like we really
lost a lot. And I think Aaron captured something that
(36:22):
is what I see as the real heroic political impulse.
Every one of those shows was some version of the
question of how dirty do my feet have to get
without me disappearing in the month in order to get
an inch of what I really want done? And it's
(36:44):
actually very easy to stand on principle, But how do
you get it done?
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yep? Okay?
Speaker 2 (36:50):
The final question is the one that's most important to
us here. We ask it at the end of every
podcast because it's important to me culturally. When is iced
coffee season?
Speaker 1 (37:04):
I think it's I think it's three hundred and sixty
five days a year.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
That's the correct answer. That's the correct answer. It's your round,
yes answer either way.
Speaker 1 (37:13):
I don't know if this is true, but I heard
that the Renaissance in Italy, Yes, happened one year after
they imported coffee, and I believe it. And these guys
were like, we should paint the fucking ceiling, man. Yeah,
like yeah, I could work on my back.
Speaker 3 (37:32):
Yeah, I paint. You get the Tower of Pisa, No,
wonder why you see that guy?
Speaker 1 (37:37):
See that guy, David and Go and the guys like, yeah,
you're gonna draw him. No, man, no, I'm gonna carve
him out of what No?
Speaker 3 (37:45):
No, cutting him out of stone?
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Big Stone. It's all caffeine.
Speaker 3 (37:51):
I love that.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
And the news or the health news, as you must know,
it's all good news on coffee.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
So we do a companion podcast here called Togg and
Coffee where we talk about all the health benefits of coffee.
And then there are always like these studies that come
out telling you what not to do with coffee.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
But coffee is good for you. Coffee is good for you.
Caffeine is good for you.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
It's good for your liver, it's good for colon cancer.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Your heart yep, yeah, inflammation, yeah, we believe me. We
cover it. We cover all the important things here, Bradley,
and all the important things.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Four cups a day.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Four cups is considered okay.
Speaker 1 (38:32):
Yeah. You may irritate your teenage children, yes.
Speaker 3 (38:35):
But four cups is okay.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Yeah, Bradley Whitford, this was such a joy and a
pressure and an honor, truly aim higher. I'm so glad
we did it. And uh yeah, I hope we cross
paths again soon.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
Me too, Me too, I'm a fan, so thank you.
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Coming up next week, I talked to actor Justin Bartha
of Natural Treasure and the hangover.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
National Treasure has really kind of been this generational gift.
I've had people come up and say, I watched it
with my dying mother.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
My grandparents love that movie.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
With Hangover, you know, there's a lot of just screaming
outside of cars. I found aug you know, it's like
a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I can't go to Vegas anymore.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Reason Choice Network.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
If you want more, check out the.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics with Jamel Hill and Native
Land Pod. For Off the Cup, I am your host,
Si Cup. Editing and sound design by Derek Clements. Our
executive producers are me Si Cup, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman.
Rate and review wherever you get your podcasts, Follow or
subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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