November 19, 2025 • 57 mins
Rahm Emanuel has many former big titles attached to his name: President Obama's chief of staff, mayor of Chicago, ambassador to Japan. He also has a pretty hefty — potential — future title (*cough* 2028 presidential contender) attached to his name as of late. But that's not what S.E. and Rahm are here to talk about. In this episode, the two dig into Rahm's past, his family, his pivots and passions, and maybe a little bit of politics sprinkled in. The two also get to nerd out on a surprising number of parallel paths and hobbies, from ballet to fly fishing.
And if you're feeling a little lost in the murky language of fly fishing, check out S.E.'s very alluring fly fishing vocab break down bonus episode. It might just make you want to wade into the hobby.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What are you an idiot? That's how my dad would say.
He loved me, what are you an idiot?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I said, I wanted to do this success for
the rest his sister.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
As you know, we don't do politics here, but I'm
always willing to make an exception when the guest is
extremely interesting and when he or she accepts flattery in
exchange for coming on. We had him on talking politics
a month or so ago, and it was such a
(00:33):
great conversation. I could have gone another hour with him.
So that's what we're doing now. But we're not really
going to talk about politics. I want you to get
to know him more because he's got a really fascinating
life story full of ups and downs, his and lows,
all the things we like to get into here on
Off the Cup, and he might just be a serious
contender for president in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
So this is very good timing.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We have a terrific friend in common, David Axelrod, who
connected and I'm so glad he did. You know him
most recently as our ambassador to Japan during the Biden administration.
Before that, he was mayor of Chicago. Before that, of course,
he was Barack Obama's White House chief of staff. Before that,
he was a congressman. If there's a thing you can
do in government, he's done it. Welcome to off the cup,
(01:17):
Rahm Emmanuel.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you. How are you.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I'm great, I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I mentioned this on Talking Politics, but I'll say it
again for folks who are just tuning in now.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I may be conservative, but the way you talk about politics,
the way you talk about the American dream, the state
of our democracy and what Democrats need to do to
get it together and win again, it's really giving me
so much hope at a time when it's really easy
not to have any You are inspiring me. You're getting
me excited about twenty twenty eight instead of dreading it.
(01:54):
I just think if you're out there working on it,
it might just be okay.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I think, you know, don't ever underestimate the resilience of
the American people.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Say more, you know, for.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
All of us that are involved in this, so we
can get cynical pretty quickly and everything like that. Actually
their anger is because they actually believe in America and
you have to appreciate that. And they are disappointed and angry.
Sentful is a series of emotions because the thing that
they've accepted has turned out to be booby trapped.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, and they have every right to be angry.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They got sold a bill of goods. And to me,
I kind of understand that frustration.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, there's so much I want to talk to you about,
because I mean, weirdly, we have a lot in common,
which we'll get into. But first I always like to
start with, what kind of kid?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Were you?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
All right? Are you sitting down?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah? For an hour? Yep, I'm here, Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I was a quiet kid, quiet to the point that
my parents thought they should get me tested.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
For like maybe something was wrong physically.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I was a quiet child that didn't do anything, didn't
say anything.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's number one.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
No swear. Steve didn't swear as a kid.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Did He barely talked?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And what that as a child. Then you have to
kind of fast forward. Well, I'm also the middle child
of three very very competitive brothers. Also, Ari and I
are separated by sixteen months to the day, and we
always shared a room together. Zeke and I are separated
(03:43):
by twenty one months, so it was quite.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Wow, it was tightly packed.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Joke, but this is actually a true story.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Zeke and I used to jump off the bunk bed
into Ari's crib to watch the baby bounce, which is why.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Started walking at nine months old. So we were a
very rambunctious group of three boys.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Now, I also was academically outside of either history or math,
an under achiever.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
My mother did.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Something torturous to all of us. So when you walked
into the house, you came through not the front door,
of the side door in the kitchen, and about four
feet away was the side of the refrigerator and I'm
that refrigerator. Mom hung Zeke's, mine and Ari's report cards
(04:40):
until the next semester.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Now, I don't know if you know this, but Zeke
got straight a's are you? I did not, okay?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And if you wanted to know why I wanted to
kill him, that was it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And you know, Ari and I have a.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Joke when Zeke used to say, I don't want to
you know, at seventy five, I'm gonna stop, you know,
taking medicine or whatever. And they said, see if you
have no worries because Ari and I are going to
kill you. Except don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But we used to. My mother would say that if
you don't do well academically.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
That's not a problem. Anybody who comes to the house
will see how you do.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Oh yes, now the other to my about a week
from now, we're all coming in and we're gonna celebrate
mom's ninety three.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Oh wonderful muzzle.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
But my parents did one other thing that I think
was formative to us as children.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So down in the family.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Room, in the middle of the wall was my great
my grandmother on my mother's side, purse that had heard
her too, my two great aunts passports, and they had
the passports, and on either side was black and white
photos of relatives from my parents' side, my father's side
(05:58):
on my mother's side, who never made it to America.
And so these eighteen eyeballs would steer at you. Yes,
and there was nothing subtle. And this was my parents' way.
And then it's not just way. They told you you
are not here to screw this up.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Yeah, people did not make it here.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
They died on the journey here.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
And you got lucky.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, you and I say this all the time. If
you're an American, you won the lottery take of life,
and I think, I uh, now again, I saw I
would never do anything my parents did, but I decided
to torture my kids the same way my parents tortured me.
And two of the three kids have joined the armed forces, because.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You have to give some peo this country.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It has a lot of problems, but it has a
lot to offer, which is why people don't journey to
go to China, they don't journey to go to Russia,
they don't journey to go to Iran. They journey to
come to America because this has that thing and we
have to give something. So anyway, that's kind of from
(07:10):
your report card to relatives of one hundred years ago to.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Watching him down.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yes, this leads perfectly to my next question, which is
about your family's emigration story.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
It's really powerful. Can you talk about it a little bit?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I can talk about it. So there's two different threads.
One thread is my grandfather on my mother's side. Lee's
Moldova is near Romania between wrote Romania and Ukrate leaves
at fourteen to flee the Russian Progroms against Jews. Yeah,
(07:46):
fourteen years old, comes to Chicago. As we always say,
not a bucket to spit in in a window, to
throw it on him.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Now he's big. You would not know it.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I did not get whatever the jeans were on that side.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I didn't get.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And he lies and drives a taxi at fourteen wow.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And he sells crap on Maxwell Maxwell Street, which is
the old Schmata Street for Jewish immigrants of Eastern Europe,
not Germany. If you know Chicago, German Jews live on
the south side south Shore near Hyde Park. Everybody else Polish, Russian,
Lithuay on the west side Lawndale. And he settles a
(08:28):
family and makes Chicago home. And he's a steel worker,
meat cutter, wins Scandinavian meats in a poker game.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
But he is a huge six' three and a.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Boxer and he found the right.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Town it sounds like Totally chicago was made for him
and he was made For.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Chicago, Yeah and so that's one.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Thread and moves to the west side to the north
Side Chicago Albany. Park and we used to Have sunday
night family dinners WHEN i was growing, up And uncle
Les mom's youngest brother is A chicago. Cop, Shelley mom's
other younger brother is a truck. Driver mom becomes a,
(09:12):
nurse And estie And, Shirley mom's older sisters become accountant
said bookkeeping and stuff like. That my dad comes To
america having fought in The war Of independence In israel
and was in the. Underground he comes to do his
residency and meets my mother At Mount Sinai hospital In
(09:33):
chicago on The West. Side they, Marry they go.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Back To. Israel then they couldn't make it for a
host of, reasons.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
And my father and mother moved back To, chicago and
my mother leads The congress On Racial equality here In
chicago late fifties early, sixties for integration at the beaches and.
Housing and if You're ben And manu a, doctor a,
pediatrician you don't Speak, english what does he? Do in
(10:05):
nineteen and he has three, boys and what does he?
Do he quits THE ama over universal national health care
and then he sues the city Of chicago in nineteen
sixty four over let in household paint that it was
gay creating brain damage to you don't, yeah and it's
not exactly the business model of success in nineteen sixty
(10:27):
if you don't take On RICHARD.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
J daily and THE ama the same. Week but it,
was you, know my family's way of teaching.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
US i think about the importance of being not only,
heard but making an impact in other people's.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Lives, well it's such An american thing to do.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Too, yeah there's a big. Strain but you, Know grandpa
Was so my kids, Say i'm not.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Allowed to talk about my dad or my grandfather Because
i'll start to, cry which is exactly what's happening.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Now BUT i know it's Not.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Grandpa he lived at and the Other he was a
really influential person in our. Lives now he is a.
Socialist h huh that becomes A democrat because Of Franklin Delano.
Roosevelt And i'm kind Of i'll never forget this because
it was A Shabbat sabbath. Dinner grandpa sitting at the
(11:30):
head of the table in our house on Wan ona
And broadway And, edgewater and he and my mother get
into a Met this is how we argue a massive
fight About.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Wallace now it's nineteen sixty. Eight, dad because it gets so, violent.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Takes us all the boys out Because mom And grandpa are,
fighting like really going at.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
It so we asked. Him he, asked my, dad who
is This wallace?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Guy now sixty? Eight, yeah you'd have thought it Was George.
Wallace oh, no, no not a. Chance oh it was
About Henry wallace in forty eight breaking from The Democratic,
party and my grandfather was furious That Henry wallace had
the audacity to leave the, party and my, mother being
the progressive in the, house was Defending Henry, wallace and
(12:23):
twenty years, later.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Like it was relevant then holding that not just a.
FIGHTING i, mean, wow.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's like the hung The gladiators and it was so
Bad dad had to take the boys out of the.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
House, yeah that was hot while we grew.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Up that's. Amazing when do you start taking ballet?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Lessons so my freshman year of high, School i'm playing
soccer and in the off season After, NOVEMBER i tell
my MOTHER i want to improve my soccer. Game and
that was the Year Rosie career at The Minnesota vikings
took up. Ballet, okay and my mother had, danced but
(13:07):
she her physique was not the aesthetic of, balanchine which
was a dominant. Esthetic she, says you should take up, ballet, balance,
footwork et. Cetera, YEP i walk into class at The
Emson school Of balle and there's twenty nine women yeah
and me yeah, Right and LIKE i didn't NEED. AI
(13:28):
i didn't need a software. Written twenty nine, Women me
sitting on the bench with twelve guys, cold AND i go.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Ballet it was LIKE i went for the thirteen year
old chemical makeup of a young. BOY i went. Ballet,
yeah looks, like, YEAH i can do.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
This this is not LIKE i don't even care If
i'm In Swan lake at.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Home THEN i find out were Discovered i'm good at.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
It yeah, Yeah AND i uh.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Drop soccer and stay with Balt and it's actually taught
me a lot about, discipline taught me a lot about.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
You, know in the nineteen.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Seventies it's not like we have a rush of young
men taking it up about, ridicute being ridiculed, yep and
kind of having the confidence and. Certainty but that's HOW i.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Started SO i started on a whim at six or
seven In, Andover massachusetts BECAUSE i just needed something.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
To do after.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
School my mom was a. Teacher she couldn't always come
to get me right right after. School AND i didn't know,
it but when we signed me, up it was this
Like Russian vaganova super, strict you, know no, talking getting
yield at And russian And. French my first, teacher, Actually Mara,
mier was a Former israeli prima ballerina who was just
(14:44):
like very serious and SO i never got to do
the fun dancing with like the competitions and the, costumes
and it was so serious AND i learned a lot
of discipline, too AND i ended up eventually moving on
To Boston bala WHERE i danced escially At Boston Ballet.
School oh, wow was that your kind of experience, too
(15:04):
like the the, serious very disciplined.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Ballet, YEAH i.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Mean WELL i did. IT i split. It so one
IS i was not allowed to never not take.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Ballet but THEN i also added On Gus giardano jazz,
yeah and later On Hubbard street.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Dance. Yeah but ballet was the fundamental and it was.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Also extremely discipline and extremely kind OF i would, say,
harsh so much as we're not really interested in your.
Creativity these are the, rules they've been passed on for three.
Centuries they're going to follow the, rules.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Right, well mine Was mine was harsh and how many
of you can relate to, this like That's russian? Praise,
yeah and praise came so, infrequently AND i mean the
abuse felt, daily the praise was maybe your. YEARLY i
kept doing it BECAUSE i got conditioned to seek someone's
(16:05):
approval like once a, year AND i ended up doing
it for ten, years probably longer than really, then probably
longer THAN i should, yeah because like you, know starting
at six or, SEVEN i was on point at, eight
which is way too. Early and THEN i was dancing
six days a week through summers Through, christmas no vacations
(16:25):
for ten. Years it Was it defined me and it
got to a point with like.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Eating disorders and.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Stuff but also just it got to a point WHERE
i didn't know WHO i was without, it AND i
couldn't imagine leaving, it AND i. DID i left when you,
Did LIKE i think you got an offer to Join
joffrey right a.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Scholarship the ballet.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
School, Yeah AND i was coming around to the time
where you would need to apply for, college AND i,
SAID i can't keep doing, this and SO i quit
right BEFORE i needed to apply to. College how did
you make that decision when you're offered this incredible. Opportunity
(17:07):
when you got to that place where you're good and
people are saying you are, good you should do.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
This, well it's, funny you. Say SO i went out
to go try.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Out, Yeah and a friend of mine From chicago was
in The Jeoffrey, company AND i stayed with her and
three other dancers who are all in The jeoffrey.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And the exposure to that, LIFE i, SAID i am
not doing.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
This you saw what it would.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Be, yeah and the other.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
THING i was, good BUT i would never be. Principal
same AND i had too big an ego for. That.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, Yeah and SO i Decided i'm going to go to.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
College AND i told my. Parents my mother was very,
disappointed and She's, jewish so she's still. Disappointed in ninety,
THREE i have done nothing to warrant not taking.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Up ballet in my. LIFE i, mean there'll be a
moment and she'll just. Go you could have been a,
DANCER i don't.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
KNOW i got, chiefs The, President, yeah, Yeah ambassador, Mayor,
no you could have been a. Dancer you could have
done something with your. Life you crap had, that you.
Know you went to ballet school to get yelled, at
try to get a compliment out of A jewish mother
doesn't happen so?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
True, Okay, yeah they give it to you once every. Decade.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Okay SO i convinced my parents THAT i was going
to go to school In New, york that IF i missed,
DANCE i would.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Go back to.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Dancing and the moment they drove off after they dropped
me off At Sarah lawrence through the ballet.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Shoes against the, wall sin. Sucker, Yeah and NOW i
danced at, school.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Kept it up after. School twice a, WEEK i would
take one, ballet one kind of modern slash. Jazz and
that was WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Did but it was not really WHAT i wanted in my.
LIFE i didn't know WHAT i, wanted BUT i knew
that wasn't. It?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Ye so, yeah same WHEN i shut that door AND
i got TO i got to, school it was.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So clear THAT i had made the right.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Decision did you know what you wanted to do when
you got to college or were you kind of?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Exploring?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
NO i mean, one you Know Sarah lawrence WHERE i
went at a early childhood education AND i THOUGHT i
wanted to be an early childhood. Educator AND i did
some stuff in that work in that that evolves to
early childhood.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Psychology and then one SUMMER i.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Worked for a public interest, Group Common, cause AND i, said,
well this is WHAT i. Love. Now if you ask
my friends from high, school they, said, oh we all
knew you were go into public.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Life REALLY i did not know.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It they, say that's.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
WHAT i wanted it kind OF i discovered, it AND
i just AND i discovered this was WHAT i really.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Had a passion.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
For AND i actually one of those rare cases when everybody, says,
oh follow your.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
PASSION i actually followed my.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Passion how do you meet The? Clintons how do you
get involved?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
There so nineteen eighty eight or eighty, SEVEN i am
the political director of The Democratic Congressional Campaign. Committee the
chairman Is Congressman Burall anthony From. Arkansas so when we
used to go, recruiting AND i go around the country
to get people who run For, congress we would fear
(20:39):
episodically periodically stop back In, arkansas and there was a
governor by the name Of Bill, clinton AND i got
to know he comes up To chicago nineteen ninety one
to give a speech As Vince laine that had In
Chicago Housing authority was doing different things on public, safety
in public housing.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
At Capri, Green Robert Taylor, holmes et.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Cetera and Then Governor clinton AND i keep up our.
Relationship and when he decides to run for, PRESIDENT i
was single AND i, thought you know, WHAT i want
to do. THIS i want to try, this and he
asked IF i would be financed. Director but that's HOW
i got the, No Bill.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Clinton did you imagine.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Like when he announced he was going to run or even,
before like this guy's got.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Something, well two.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Things one IS i wanted To one of my life
goals was to work in The White.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
House, yeah for a.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
PRESIDENT i believed. It second, IS i did. Believe remember
you got to come out Of.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Jimmy carter n, Eighty walter Mont dale in eighty, Four
Mike decoccus in eighty.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Eight, yeah that was not the.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Course and you're going to need a Different now we
say Different. DEMOCRATS i don't know IF i would have
said it intellectualized.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
It it's a different.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Depract but following that, stream you couldn't do the same
thing over. AGAIN i expected from hisself AND i Thought
clinton had a capacity that very Few democrats, had and
SO i was willing to take that my father yelled at.
Me he, says in that Great israeli, accent what are
you a? Schmuck you're going down To who is this?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Guy what does he? Do you?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Know and he was at two, percent, right and people forget,
this he was at two. Percent and those were the
days that All washington was a flutter About Bill bradley
and Manriy O, cuomo. Etcetera and you're going to a
place Called. Arkansas, yeah what are you an? Idiot that's how.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
My dad would.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Say he loved, Me what are you an? Idiot AND
i SAID i wanted to do, this. Etcetera and the
rest is.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Sister it.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Is you, know there's recently been a lot of looking
back at The clintons and you, know At Bill clinton's.
Behaviors i'm wondering if you have any thoughts on the
way The, democrats including some some feminists at the, time
defended him credit his, accusers like people are kind of
(23:03):
wrestling with that now And i'm just wondering if you
had any thoughts on.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
That, well it was kind of at the, time also
discussed when we were.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
There tell, ME i mean, NO i mean when during
the presidency a LOT i mean during the kind of impeachment.
Process there was a lot of attacks women leaders and
women groups for defending a guy and a person that
they thought didn't deserve to be. PROTECTED i think if
(23:32):
you look at, it had this happened twenty years, Later
i'm not sure any of those women or.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Groups would have come to his.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Defense, yeah because of our politics and what change in
our value.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
System it's a.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Country, yeah after The White, house you join an investment,
bank but it's not long before you decide to run
for office. Yourself and what made you want to cross
over and go from staff to.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Principle, well.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So let's say, interesting we have three. KIDS i didn't
have a bucket to spit in a window. THROW i
needed to make some, money BUT i didn't have the
money for a down payment on my. Home amy AND
i started a, family and we wanted to get a,
home AND.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I put it. Together and, anyway, yeah so what she's.
Sleeping it was A saturday.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
AND i was watching the kids out in the front
yard and Then Congressman rodabagoivitch runs.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
By oh my, god and he.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Goes you, Know i'm thinking of running for. Governor will
you helped? Me AND i, said you, know, SURE i,
have you, know not a problem or. Whatever and we
talked briefly and he's running in place while we're, talking
and then he starts to run AND i just remember
he looks over his left shoulder and, goes you.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Should run for my. SEAT i had not thought about
it at.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
All oh my.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Gosh, now being the good FATHER i.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
DID i went in the, house left the kids out
in the front yard by themselve on a what AND
i called who is a dear friend of, Mine Congressman
Rosa doloro From New, Haven AND i, said, Hey and
this is What rob, said roses like an older, sister
and she said you should do it except For redline
talked To axelrod and THEN i DECIDED i had achieved
(25:21):
quicker THAN i thought my family's financial, security WHICH i
had a responsibility to do BEFORE i went.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Back at the bank.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Before, yeah much quicker THAN i. THOUGHT i had no.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Sense, now if you look at the, district predecessors Are Dan,
Rostenkowski Roman, Kachinski Franken, Nuns, you Rob, Igoyevitch Mike, Flannagan
Ram Israel emanuel is not fit in the district And
i'm running against, well there's four of us in the.
Field i'm running against A polish woman.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Who's in state. Wreck so if you had a, bank
put your money on the.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Bat.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah BUT i DECIDED i didn't want to pass this.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
UP i didn't want to have an opportunity and not
AND i, Decide, Okay i'm gonna do.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
It Was amy on. Board, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes so.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
When we were, DATING i told her two. THINGS i
would never run for, office and we would live. Overseas
so the WAY i look at, it we lived In.
Japan i'm like one for. Two, okay she thinks they're
running For congress and. Mayor it was a bait and.
Switch SO i can't imagine why she came to that,
(26:36):
conclusion and to her great credit support if this is
what you, want she, Says, LOOK i, mean let's be
honest for any, family and she's you, Know Mama beer
protecting the.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Cubs this is Not if this is what you, want.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Great but you know we have A AND i give
her a lot of credit about both Through congress and through,
mayor of making sure that the kids were.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Secure, yeah they.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Were in a home of love and that whatever was
done outside the house vice a ve that my. Job
it didn't infect who they were in the household we were,
building and that's while we did it. Together it wasn't
fifty to fifty and so she was, supportive and it
wasn't it wasn't option, one two or three in her
(27:28):
choices of WHAT i did in my.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Life, no you had promise her you wouldn't do that. Thing,
okay who?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Knew, okay two thousand and six is a very interesting
year for you Because hillary is assumed to be running
for two thousand and, eight and you say you would
support her in that. Effort but Then Barack, obama your
home state, senator says he might run. Too so, like
how conflicted are? You and how how public is that
(27:56):
conflict in.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Two thousand and when they're. Running two. Things, ONE i
said That i'm going to hide under my desk with my.
Blanket i'm not coming out till they have a. NOMINEE
i said it.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Publicly, oh because you didn't want to have to pack
SAID i have.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It first of, ALL i Knew President obama when he
was a state. Senator we were Part there was a
number of us of which he AND i were part
of the next generation coming.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Up, yeh.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah and Obviously david's very close to. Him i'm very
close To, david. Etc we've met numerous times when he
was a state. Senator on the other, hand i'd Be
i'm nothing Without Bill, clinton, right AND i know, that And.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I'm old school about. Loyalty SO i called up Person.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
CLINTON i, Said, HEY i know HOW i got, here
BUT i have a senator for my, state So i'm
not endorsing, him BUT i can't Endorse hillary against.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Him what did he?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Say he got, It he understood.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
It i'm not sure everybody, else the other people on both,
Sides I'M i sure got.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
It, yeah he understood.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
It AND i said the same thing then presidential Candidate,
obama AND i, Said i'm not Endorsing.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Hillary that would be wrong to.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You BUT i can't endorse you either because it would
be wrong to the man that gave me my start
in national, politics which Is Bill.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Clinton i'm not doing, it and so don't ask. Me
so what ends? Up he asked me to be chief
staff when.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
We'll get you one way or the.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Other BUT i hid under my desk until he had a.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Nominee that was a tough, primary you know.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It, was but it was good for the.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Party it was And President obama would tell You hillary
made him a better.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Candidate, first you could see. It you could see it.
Happening he wasn't in real. Time you, know people forget.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
This, now this is the weirdo in.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Me The Bill, clinton you, know in The Barack obama you,
know are not who they.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Are on day. One, yeah in the process they.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Emerge now they have raw, talent they have, capacity but
the process sharpens the. Knife do they become The Bill
clinton we know about in our mind's, eye The President
obama that we know in our mind's, eye that is
not where they, were and they, won they become.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
That they don't start.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
THERE i was in that. Prime that was a tough.
PRIMARY i covered it tough. GENERAL i was supporting. McCain
when did you know That Barack obama was going to win?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
This?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, back uh.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Huh when we win in six and we start dealing
with from the, Majority President, Bush, YEAH i know that
The democrats are going to win and it you know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
That, Yes do you know that McCain's going to be the?
Nominee probably?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
No BUT i could tell both where the economy Was Iraq,
war we won thirty one.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Seed you could also look at poling early, on and
see none of that had.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Dissipated, YEAH i, thought whoever wins the, nomination that's a
nomination worth.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Having did you consider McCain a formidable.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Opponent, YEAH i mean you have.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
TO i, mean but he gets dealt a horrible. Hand
he's coming at the end of eight years Of George,
bush a very unpopular, war and a financial and residential housing.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Meltdown he just draws a bad.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Hand now you could go through who he picks for
his running, mate how he does, that.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Etc but he has a bad.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Hand and The, democrats whoever we, nominate is going to be,
changed and no, age no matter what changes in the. Air,
now about four three weeks befour weeks before the, Election
i'm At leah's soccer. Game she's about nine years, old she's,
(32:00):
younger and we're on the lake front phone rings and
It's Senator. Obama It's, september and he, Says i'm just
giving you a heads.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Up i'm coming after you after this IF i.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
WIN i want you to be chief a Step AND
i told, him in no uncertain terms THAT i was
changing my phone number And i'm not doing, THAT i, Said,
amy AND i are. Set i've been to The White house.
BEFORE i don't want to do that again with a young.
FAMILY i, Said i'm not doing. IT i did it
WHEN i was. Single up until the, END i Said
i'm not it's not fair to the family And amy And.
Eric he, says you say all, that But i'm just
(32:34):
letting you. Know and then he Called OBVIOUSLY i also
saw him election night and he, says we're talking tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Morning so how did he get you to do?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
It, well you, know this goes back To grandpa m
that when The president of The United states asked you
to do, something it's either yes or, yes, sir and
you just got to figure out between those two which
one you're anting ancering? What, YEAH i didn't want to do.
IT i had MY i gotta be. Honest amy and
the kids were. Set our life was. SET i had
my sights set on being the, speaker AND i was
(33:10):
doing WHAT i did from the d trip c and
caucus chair WHERE i was, going AND i figured out
the chest.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Pieces it worked out.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Okay but you know the first six months of his,
tenure which are not exactly WHAT i call a stroll
in the. Park amy AND i are living apart And
i'm without my, family and it's AS i used to,
say in The White, house it's a family friendly to
(33:39):
the first. Family everybody else gets kind of a. STOUT
i used To The other THING i used to say,
was Thank, god It's, friday two more work days Still,
monday and so that's kind of AND i knew. That
but you, know The president of The United states at
a critical, moment and he's a. FRIEND i was also
the chair of his transition FOR Us senate.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
When he, wins and you know how to do.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It, yeah in the same way THAT i would not
Abandon President clinton with the chips were, Down President obama
Or president Like obama's walking into a. Situation let's be,
honest nobody had faces in fifty, years sixty.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
YEARS i knew.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Something about The, HILL i knew something about The White.
HOUSE i knew something about, politics AND.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I knew how to run.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Things he needed you and you have to.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Serve, Yeah so at any point during your tenure do
you come to enjoy? It there are times that look
like you enjoyed. It chief Of, Staff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Are you out of your? Mind?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Now in, retrospect when you're having a glass of red,
wine you look at the book with all the black
and white. Photos, yes going through, it you're you know
that painting by Ed munk the, Screen that's what You're. Yeah, okay,
no there is no there is no no enjoyment going.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Through, it because, literally he could be high.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Fiving we just passed the bill and you're back at
your desk dealing with the next.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Problem and this is non stop.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
And and you, know you got a healthcare. Crisis, yeah
you got a recession near a, depression you got the
auto industry, collapsing you got the financial sector, collapsing and
you got everybody and the tea.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Party, yeah beginning this was what You you tell me what's? Enjoyable?
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Yeah, right?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Nothing. NOTHING i mean.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Now in, retrospect is it rewarding that you were part
of creating universal healthcare At? Asia from a why you
get into public service one hundred going through?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
It, yeah you are just a stressed out, Person that's
all you.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Are so was going back To chicago to run for
mayor was that a fam about family.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
Or is that something you'd always wanted to?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Do? NO i, mean well there's a so WHEN i
Tell President, OBAMA i don't want to do this whatever he, goes,
well what else do you want to do besides p.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Speakers do you know we're going From chicago one?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Day you, know ast of those the other Offices, MAYOR i,
mean if you're In, chicago mayor's mayor's alpha Dog Axe
rods as we both. Did that used to always, say
AND i agree with, him there are five great jobs
in public. Life, president governor Of, California governor Of New,
York mayor Of New York, city or mayor Of. Chicago
(36:31):
and my, joke my joke Was i've had one and
a half of these jobs and so but as soon
As Mayor daily says he was not going to seek,
reelection you, KNOW i, said, okay this is AND i
had come to nineteen months With President. Obama that's kind
of the longevity of a chief of Stat The president's joke,
(36:52):
was do you Think ram will stop buya sayabye on
the way, Out AND.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I was, like, bo.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
This is the most important. Question oh, okay when do
you pick up fly?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Fishing, okay this is.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Now, yeah you love fly, Fishing, YES i love.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
FISHING i mostly, spinfish BUT i also fly. Fish my
husband's a big fly.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
FISHERMAN i love fly.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
FISHING i, know SO i this is weird because usually
you a would, say you know.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Upstate.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
WISCONSIN i had a friend who loved to, travel love fly,
fishing recently passed away and wants to organize a fan
too family trip To. ARGENTINA i take it up in
two thousand and, three and it's become an obsession of.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Mine. Yeah, yeah not like SOMETHING i. Enjoy, yeah on.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Obsession i'm ambassador AND i go To New zealand twice
to go fly.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Fishing oh you send me that? VIDEO i saw.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
It, yes, YES i love fly. FISHING i took it
up in two thousand and three WHEN i was. Mayor
my older Brother Zeke Skip paul paula gala a group of.
Us every year when The Missouri river opened up first
week Of. May we would do a three day float
down The Missouri river go fly.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Fishing THAT i can't have to. Me standing in the.
WATER i. Don't i'm not a fan of, floating but
standing in the water like to.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Wade got.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
It the water's rushing on you and you're reading the.
Water where do you think the fish will? Be, casting hitting,
it hooking, it having something live on your.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
HANDSHAKE i just love. IT i can't get enough of.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
IT i fish With he's great and his son's a
guide In.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Alaska, yeah, Yeah aaul's a very he's into it, Too, yes,
very he's very into. IT i send.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Him there's a group of us that's send photos each
other on, yeah fly.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Fishing, Yeah paul's always there's a, hug you. Know, yeah,
yeah so We.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
But let me just be, Clear, yes this is not
this doesn't scream fly Fish, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah you. Know it's such a romantic. Sport AND, i
as a, WOMAN i GOTTA i gotta tell. YOU I
i fished.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
A lot of.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
WATERS i was fishing The Keen eye In alaska one.
Year i've done that several. Times And i'm ganging these
giant kings out of out of the, river both on
a fly and then on like an eggsact. Bait BUT
i felt so primal pulling this thing out of the,
water gutting it and cleaning it in on the, water
taking it to the river, bank putting it on a,
fire cooking and eating. IT i felt like there's NOTHING
(39:48):
i can't, do, now do you.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Know WHAT i? Mean it's just the best.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Feeling and it was a preparation for The trump presidency.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Survival, OKAY i actually have been on the copper up
in the last.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Great uh, NO.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I i'm with you about. THIS i think there's something very.
Spiritual AND i don't know how to explain. This you,
know your rod is bending down and you have this
thing that's just yanking and pulling and heading, downstream and
your how much you're supposed to let it run versus putting.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Tension there is nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Live feeling in your hand yep of that fish at
the end of a.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Line.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Ye and it's hard to explain to people who've never. Experienced,
Yes AND i find it also very relaxing me.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
TOO i FEEL i hunt as, well AND i feel the.
Same really, yeah SO i hunt and. FISH i feel
the same. Way you're so, focused especially, hunting you're, listening you're,
quiet you're still unless you're, driving but like you're you're
usually If i'm in a, Blind i'm, Quiet i'm, Listening i'm.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Watching you can't think about.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Techs or you, know it blocks everything.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Else it completely does and there's nothing else that does
that for, me, RIGHT i.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Mean, so you Know amy likes to fly, fish and
so we kind of do it. Together Although i'm a
little ON i know you find it shocking a little
on the. Spectrum i'm obsessive about, it, sure but, yeah,
yeah you know how these flies they have these weird.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Names?
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah is there a committee that meets down in the
basement with likes four six packs and they come up
with these ridiculous?
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Names?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah like and then you know the guides whether, Earlier,
YEAH i got, it that's NOT i you know, Whatever
and they say these.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
NAMES i want to. KNOW i want on the. COMMITTEE i, like,
ca can't we just call It joe's? Fly why don't
we have to have?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
It you?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Know and it's deals with like people's sexual devians and
all these weird. Names, yes it's, weird and you can't
explain it to.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
EVERYBODY i name my the words After seinfeld. Character so,
yeah Like elaine's great for like deep, jigging, okay but
then Like banya is good for something.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Else but that's HOW i can keep track of.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Them you go to a fly shop and they will have,
names and literally it's like Cheating Chong WE'RE i was
like stoned one night and they just came up with these.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Names i've never heard anything like. This i'm going.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
There.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Ridiculous, yeah but it's a great but it. Is.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Now the interesting thing also is you hear people describe,
golf Which i've never.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Done they will describe kind of the.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Be able to block everything, out the single like focus
outside on a single, task which is what fly. Fit you,
know with THE i have like nature AND i have.
Pictures there's bald eagle, flying there's a moose, here and
you're just fishing out in nature and by.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yourself it's, very very restorative to your. Soul.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Totally my husband can remember every fish he's ever. Caught
are you the same?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Way let me do it the other. Way you can
have a great day catching. Eighteen all you focus on
is the nineteenth that got.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Away, yes so what you, felt, yes and then you sit.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Around so then the other thing is when you're on the,
water it's seventeen. Inches when you get to the shop it's,
twenty so it's called so a lot of guys, say
that's a shop, Twenty so it's means on the.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Water on the, water it was sixteen.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Or, seventeen and just by the time five hours later
you get back to brag it's twenty.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Inches of course it was a. Record it was a, record, yeah. Exactly,
okay let's do a lightning.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Round, okay.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Speaking of have you ever caught a record? Fishing if,
so what was the species and what did you catch?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It On New?
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Zealand seven point eight pounds and it was thirty three
inches and it was a.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Brown.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Nice oh that's a big. Brown.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah the guy said it was the second biggest he
caught that.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Year, yeah that's what he said for, me BECAUSE i
was paying.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
The day he.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Did.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, yeah and he got a good one for that.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Compliment bucket list fly fishing destination you haven't done.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
YET i want to go To. Mongolia oh, yeah oh.
YEAH i went To New zealand. TWICE i could never
get this. Schedule everybody Says labor day ish is the
perfect Time.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Mongol i'd like to go. There so everybody says it's.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Spectacular i've Heard Andorra andorra's on my Last, well it
is supposed to be this incredible pocket in The. Alps
it's Like valley in The, alps this tiny little country supposed.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
To be spectacular for fly.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Fishing and they have these fly fishing camps set.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Up they're.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Empty you just go in and use them if no
one's using them at the.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
TIME i Think.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Mongolia and ALSO i would say northern part Of, Finland,
sweden that, Area.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Oh, yeah, cold, yes ye.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yes SO i already asked you your favorite movie about
politics On Talking, politics let me ask you who your
favorite fictional president, is AND i can run down a.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
List.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Yep so you have Like Morgan freeman In Deep, Impact
Bill pullman In Independence, Day Michael douglass and The American,
President Jeff bridges In The, Contender Kevin klein And Dave
Harrison Ford Air Force, One John, Travolta Primary, Colors Billy Bob,
Thornton Love, Actually Peter, Sellers Doctor, Strangelove Martin Sheen.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
Sting it's a pretty comprehensive.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
List, yeah it's a little too, much too. Much yeah, yeah,
uh give me the middle ones to get into number.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Three so my Favorite Jeff bridges In The. Contender he
is so weird and great in that. Movie you Have
Michael douglas And American President the Erin sucer.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Movie that's a really good.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
One, Yeah Michael. DOUGLAS i happen to Like Michael douglas
too as a.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Person AND i Love Aaron sorkin and the way he,
wrote it's a very. Capra, yes it's so.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
GREAT i don't. Know these imaginary presidents.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
To, me not the real. Thing do you know the real?
Speaker 2 (46:39):
THING i, SAID i. Don't i'm not into.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
It well can you be like, no because that's? Fictional,
no stop.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
It that's. Right what's the Best chicago food? Stuff be, careful.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Best chicago food stuff In Mexican american communities like back
of The, arts in The Grouse, restore there are taco
stands in the. Back there's a particular one in the
back of the. Yards i'm not telling anybody because then
people will go and ruin. It there is probably the
best Tacos i've ever. Had AND i would say that.
(47:14):
IS i, know we got our, pizza we got Our
Winni circle hot dogs very.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
Good, yeah you got Your polish delicacy.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Is but the tacos in a grocery store in the.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Back there's a Few mexican grocery.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Stores there's two to three of them that have, it
and it's really.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
SPECTACULAR i do want TO i know this is supposed
to be a lightning.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Rod there's another taco place near our house and the
other day about a month.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
AGO i. WAS i went in to get some.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
FOOD a lot of cops, visited and the, woman Who
i've known for years through my, mayorality et, cetera just
started crying to like looked up and the fear in
her eyes because of what was going.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
On With ice and everything like.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
That and she could AND i you, know you can
read about, it, obviously what has happened to her and
is what's happening to her is existential and the amount
of fear she's explaining how she bikes to work and
how she had to change the route and how she.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Now rides alleys so, heartbreaking, yes. Totally, Yeah BUT i
was reading.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
About it and meeting someone is totally, DIFFERENT i.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
MEAN i, Think BUT i MEAN i was telling you
in the beginning by this interview about my grandfather who
flees the, programs and here In, america which is a
symbol of, freedom we're chasing people who are trying to
get to.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Work it's.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Crazy.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Yeah so what's the best thing you ate In?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Japan the best, thing, well even straight food is A
Michelin star. Restaurant, Right so if you go to the
northern island Of, hakkaido probably the best Venicon i've ever
had in my, life full.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Stop there was a very unique.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Sushi restaurant that served a shark and tuna dish THAT
i had never had anywhere.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Else near The Skejee market In.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Tokyo there's a place in the basement Where amy AND
i had found with this ambassador From singapore and his
wife that would go to the market pick up the
back spine of the tuna that was usually. Discarded you
would get a shell and you would scrape the meat
(49:53):
between the ribs and that was the sushi you. Had,
god it Was i've never had anywhere off the. Charts
the other thing they would do is they would take
the tunic jaw and they would make a dish out
of that which is filled with. Meat, yeah like so
those and then down in the southern island A, kishu
(50:18):
they have a set of street food from the runs
of the salmon et cetera that.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Is off the, chart but you can't.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Oh In, kanazawa it was a young chef and his
wife who turned home into a. Restaurant there's a, home
old home that got left and they had made Food
japanese traditional kind of seven course that was off the.
(50:46):
JOB i was trying To i'm going. BACK i was
trying to get in AND i couldn't get.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
IN i can't get. It it's. Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Wow, okay what's your favorite band or musical artist right?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
NOW i always say my Favor put somebody LIKE i
get into a place And i'll.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
Listen, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Right Abraham. ALEXANDER i really Like Jacob. BANKS i really
like what genre. Salt they're kind OF r AND. B
Jacob banks is From, africa But ritish. Citizen Abraham alexander's
got a little spirituality to, it but also SOME r
AND b. SOUND i Think Cane, brown which is An
(51:27):
African american country. Singer chabouzi is. ANOTHER i Like Chris.
STAPLETON i Like Zach Bryan Luke. Combs then on THE
i have to give a shout out To wilco And
Jeff tweety here From chicago BECAUSE i think they're great.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Music so that's.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Good kind of a Plactic yeah did?
Speaker 3 (51:52):
YOU i didn't have this, question BUT i just thought of.
IT i fell in love with classical music through through,
ballet just tearing it all the time, time AND i
Found i've returned to classical.
Speaker 4 (52:02):
MUSIC i had a sort of a nervous. Breakdown in twenty.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
TWENTY i struggle with, anxiety BUT i have found classical
music to be incredibly soothing and.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
Calming do you like classical? Music?
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Complicated only for this recent my father self taught you
could hear two notes and say de Vorda Mahler, yes by,
myself and so that ends up torturing the rest of,
us all three.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Boys SO i do like, it BUT i want to be.
HONEST i have a love hate.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
RELATIONSHIP i get, that but, YEAH i got that On sunday.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Mornings so.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Every, morning BECAUSE i, CAN'T i get up at, FIVE
i make coffee AND i bring it up To amy in.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Bed she gets it every. Day oh.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
Nice, yeah to.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Start, today it's downhill after, That i'm back in the
doghouse by eight a. M but at five point.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
Thirty you're starting.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
RIGHT i start, right and then it's a black diamond down.
Mail but On saturday And, sunday if we don't really have,
ANYTHING i put on music AND i start with, classical
and then it would go Classical Nora jones and then
WHAT i want to listen?
Speaker 3 (53:28):
To oh, good, Iression, YEAH i eas her into, it, yeah,
yeah with a good cup of dark roast coffee on
the side of the. Bed this is a perfect segue
into our last. QUESTION i ask it at the end
of every pod because it's the most important to. Me
this is my, spirituality it's my. Culture when is it
iced coffee?
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Season i'm not the guy to ask the answer that
question BECAUSE i Like i'm, black, hot, dark.
Speaker 4 (53:56):
Gross, simple don't.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
DON'T i don't want to hear about. MILK i don't
want to hear about. OATS i don't want to hear
about any of that. STUFF i don't want to hear about.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
Caramel sure, don't, no, no, now.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Now the other. Thing full. Stop let me go.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Back japan has one of the greatest coffee cultures you'll
find anywhere in the. World, yes, yes every cup is individually.
Made there's no pot o. Coffee there's this great Near
Skichi market In tokyo place Called, tourette unbelievably wins best
(54:31):
coffee roaster In, asia opened up and did us pop
up in Both New york and la, oh and it
has an incredible coffee. Culture BUT i am.
Speaker 4 (54:41):
A, purist dark, hot rose.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Hot coffee in the middle of the. Summer i'm not
really interested in messing with.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That, Now no, milk no, sugar no, honey no, whiskey
don't play with.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
This, okay it's worked going all the way back To.
Speaker 4 (54:57):
Egypt that's.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
True nobody asked your, opinion that's WHY i, yeah, okay.
Yep so now when do you think it starts ice?
Speaker 3 (55:03):
Coffee it's iceby, season year. Round, okay is the correct.
Answer we like that you like, coffee that's, fine but
the correct answer is your. Round I'm i'm From, massachusetts
the land Of Dunkin, donuts and ice coffee is my.
Speaker 4 (55:18):
Religion it's really oh, yeah, yeah hot, coffee hot black.
Coffee that's your. Choice, yeah the free. Country.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Two and then you put a cap and you say
two cups a, day of which when you get the,
third it doesn't count because you didn't really finish the.
Speaker 4 (55:33):
Second. That, yeah that's. Coffee.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Math i'm county and that's the way we. Count, yeah that's.
Coffee that's why everybody can vote In, Chicago.
Speaker 4 (55:44):
Rob, emmanuel this was so. Delightful i'm so glad we did.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
This, okay next, time we're going through, books great history
books that we have.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
Read, okay, Great, YEAH i love. THAT i love that for.
Us thank you so. Much this was this was. EXCELLENT
i loved to know you.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
MORE i thank you very much for doing.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
This coming up next week On off The, CUP i
sit down and talk to best selling author Of The
Orchid thief and her new, memoir Joy, ride Author Susan
orlean being out in.
Speaker 5 (56:15):
The world and meeting people and reporting and, researching which
is really a. Thrill and then the writing part where it's,
suddenly oh my, god how DO i tell this?
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Story off The cup is a production Of iHeart podcasts
as part of The Reason Choice.
Speaker 4 (56:34):
Network if you want, more check out the Other.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
Reason choice Podcasts spolitics With Jamel hill And Native Land.
Pod For off The, Cup i'm your, Host Si. Cup
editing and sound design By Derek. Clements our executive producers
are Me Se, Coup Lauren, hanson And Lindsay. Hoffman rate
and review wherever you get your, podcasts follow or subscribe
for new episodes Every.
Speaker 4 (56:55):
Wednesday
What are you an idiot? That's how my dad would say.
He loved me, what are you an idiot?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
And I said, I wanted to do this success for
the rest his sister.
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Welcome to Off the Cup, my personal anti anxiety antidote.
As you know, we don't do politics here, but I'm
always willing to make an exception when the guest is
extremely interesting and when he or she accepts flattery in
exchange for coming on. We had him on talking politics
a month or so ago, and it was such a
(00:33):
great conversation. I could have gone another hour with him.
So that's what we're doing now. But we're not really
going to talk about politics. I want you to get
to know him more because he's got a really fascinating
life story full of ups and downs, his and lows,
all the things we like to get into here on
Off the Cup, and he might just be a serious
contender for president in twenty twenty eight.
Speaker 4 (00:54):
So this is very good timing.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We have a terrific friend in common, David Axelrod, who
connected and I'm so glad he did. You know him
most recently as our ambassador to Japan during the Biden administration.
Before that, he was mayor of Chicago. Before that, of course,
he was Barack Obama's White House chief of staff. Before that,
he was a congressman. If there's a thing you can
do in government, he's done it. Welcome to off the cup,
(01:17):
Rahm Emmanuel.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Thank you. How are you.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
I'm great, I'm so glad you're here.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I mentioned this on Talking Politics, but I'll say it
again for folks who are just tuning in now.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I'm a fan.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I may be conservative, but the way you talk about politics,
the way you talk about the American dream, the state
of our democracy and what Democrats need to do to
get it together and win again, it's really giving me
so much hope at a time when it's really easy
not to have any You are inspiring me. You're getting
me excited about twenty twenty eight instead of dreading it.
(01:54):
I just think if you're out there working on it,
it might just be okay.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
I think, you know, don't ever underestimate the resilience of
the American people.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
Say more, you know, for.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
All of us that are involved in this, so we
can get cynical pretty quickly and everything like that. Actually
their anger is because they actually believe in America and
you have to appreciate that. And they are disappointed and angry.
Sentful is a series of emotions because the thing that
they've accepted has turned out to be booby trapped.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah, and they have every right to be angry.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
They got sold a bill of goods. And to me,
I kind of understand that frustration.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, there's so much I want to talk to you about,
because I mean, weirdly, we have a lot in common,
which we'll get into. But first I always like to
start with, what kind of kid?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Were you?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
All right? Are you sitting down?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Yeah? For an hour? Yep, I'm here, Okay.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
I was a quiet kid, quiet to the point that
my parents thought they should get me tested.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
For a while.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
For like maybe something was wrong physically.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
I was a quiet child that didn't do anything, didn't
say anything.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's number one.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
No swear. Steve didn't swear as a kid.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Did He barely talked?
Speaker 1 (03:19):
And what that as a child. Then you have to
kind of fast forward. Well, I'm also the middle child
of three very very competitive brothers. Also, Ari and I
are separated by sixteen months to the day, and we
always shared a room together. Zeke and I are separated
(03:43):
by twenty one months, so it was quite.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Wow, it was tightly packed.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Yeah, and I.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Joke, but this is actually a true story.
Speaker 1 (03:53):
Zeke and I used to jump off the bunk bed
into Ari's crib to watch the baby bounce, which is why.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
Started walking at nine months old. So we were a
very rambunctious group of three boys.
Speaker 1 (04:08):
Now, I also was academically outside of either history or math,
an under achiever.
Speaker 4 (04:15):
Huh.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
My mother did.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Something torturous to all of us. So when you walked
into the house, you came through not the front door,
of the side door in the kitchen, and about four
feet away was the side of the refrigerator and I'm
that refrigerator. Mom hung Zeke's, mine and Ari's report cards
(04:40):
until the next semester.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
Now, I don't know if you know this, but Zeke
got straight a's are you? I did not, okay?
Speaker 1 (04:51):
And if you wanted to know why I wanted to
kill him, that was it.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
And you know, Ari and I have a.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Joke when Zeke used to say, I don't want to
you know, at seventy five, I'm gonna stop, you know,
taking medicine or whatever. And they said, see if you
have no worries because Ari and I are going to
kill you. Except don't worry about it.
Speaker 2 (05:10):
But we used to. My mother would say that if
you don't do well academically.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
That's not a problem. Anybody who comes to the house
will see how you do.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Oh yes, now the other to my about a week
from now, we're all coming in and we're gonna celebrate
mom's ninety three.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
Oh wonderful muzzle.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
But my parents did one other thing that I think
was formative to us as children.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
So down in the family.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Room, in the middle of the wall was my great
my grandmother on my mother's side, purse that had heard
her too, my two great aunts passports, and they had
the passports, and on either side was black and white
photos of relatives from my parents' side, my father's side
(05:58):
on my mother's side, who never made it to America.
And so these eighteen eyeballs would steer at you. Yes,
and there was nothing subtle. And this was my parents' way.
And then it's not just way. They told you you
are not here to screw this up.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Yeah, people did not make it here.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
They died on the journey here.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
And you got lucky.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
Yeah, you and I say this all the time. If
you're an American, you won the lottery take of life,
and I think, I uh, now again, I saw I
would never do anything my parents did, but I decided
to torture my kids the same way my parents tortured me.
And two of the three kids have joined the armed forces, because.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
You have to give some peo this country.
Speaker 1 (06:50):
It has a lot of problems, but it has a
lot to offer, which is why people don't journey to
go to China, they don't journey to go to Russia,
they don't journey to go to Iran. They journey to
come to America because this has that thing and we
have to give something. So anyway, that's kind of from
(07:10):
your report card to relatives of one hundred years ago to.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
Watching him down.
Speaker 3 (07:16):
Yes, this leads perfectly to my next question, which is
about your family's emigration story.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
It's really powerful. Can you talk about it a little bit?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Sure?
Speaker 1 (07:25):
I can talk about it. So there's two different threads.
One thread is my grandfather on my mother's side. Lee's
Moldova is near Romania between wrote Romania and Ukrate leaves
at fourteen to flee the Russian Progroms against Jews. Yeah,
(07:46):
fourteen years old, comes to Chicago. As we always say,
not a bucket to spit in in a window, to
throw it on him.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Now he's big. You would not know it.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
I did not get whatever the jeans were on that side.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
I didn't get.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
And he lies and drives a taxi at fourteen wow.
Speaker 1 (08:05):
And he sells crap on Maxwell Maxwell Street, which is
the old Schmata Street for Jewish immigrants of Eastern Europe,
not Germany. If you know Chicago, German Jews live on
the south side south Shore near Hyde Park. Everybody else Polish, Russian,
Lithuay on the west side Lawndale. And he settles a
(08:28):
family and makes Chicago home. And he's a steel worker,
meat cutter, wins Scandinavian meats in a poker game.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
But he is a huge six' three and a.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
Boxer and he found the right.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
Town it sounds like Totally chicago was made for him
and he was made For.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Chicago, Yeah and so that's one.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
Thread and moves to the west side to the north
Side Chicago Albany. Park and we used to Have sunday
night family dinners WHEN i was growing, up And uncle
Les mom's youngest brother is A chicago. Cop, Shelley mom's
other younger brother is a truck. Driver mom becomes a,
(09:12):
nurse And estie And, Shirley mom's older sisters become accountant
said bookkeeping and stuff like. That my dad comes To
america having fought in The war Of independence In israel
and was in the. Underground he comes to do his
residency and meets my mother At Mount Sinai hospital In
(09:33):
chicago on The West. Side they, Marry they go.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Back To. Israel then they couldn't make it for a
host of, reasons.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
And my father and mother moved back To, chicago and
my mother leads The congress On Racial equality here In
chicago late fifties early, sixties for integration at the beaches and.
Housing and if You're ben And manu a, doctor a,
pediatrician you don't Speak, english what does he? Do in
(10:05):
nineteen and he has three, boys and what does he?
Do he quits THE ama over universal national health care
and then he sues the city Of chicago in nineteen
sixty four over let in household paint that it was
gay creating brain damage to you don't, yeah and it's
not exactly the business model of success in nineteen sixty
(10:27):
if you don't take On RICHARD.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
J daily and THE ama the same. Week but it,
was you, know my family's way of teaching.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
US i think about the importance of being not only,
heard but making an impact in other people's.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Lives, well it's such An american thing to do.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
Too, yeah there's a big. Strain but you, Know grandpa
Was so my kids, Say i'm not.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
Allowed to talk about my dad or my grandfather Because
i'll start to, cry which is exactly what's happening.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Now BUT i know it's Not.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Grandpa he lived at and the Other he was a
really influential person in our. Lives now he is a.
Socialist h huh that becomes A democrat because Of Franklin Delano.
Roosevelt And i'm kind Of i'll never forget this because
it was A Shabbat sabbath. Dinner grandpa sitting at the
(11:30):
head of the table in our house on Wan ona
And broadway And, edgewater and he and my mother get
into a Met this is how we argue a massive
fight About.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
Wallace now it's nineteen sixty. Eight, dad because it gets so, violent.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Takes us all the boys out Because mom And grandpa are,
fighting like really going at.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
It so we asked. Him he, asked my, dad who
is This wallace?
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Guy now sixty? Eight, yeah you'd have thought it Was George.
Wallace oh, no, no not a. Chance oh it was
About Henry wallace in forty eight breaking from The Democratic,
party and my grandfather was furious That Henry wallace had
the audacity to leave the, party and my, mother being
the progressive in the, house was Defending Henry, wallace and
(12:23):
twenty years, later.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Like it was relevant then holding that not just a.
FIGHTING i, mean, wow.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
It's like the hung The gladiators and it was so
Bad dad had to take the boys out of the.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
House, yeah that was hot while we grew.
Speaker 4 (12:38):
Up that's. Amazing when do you start taking ballet?
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Lessons so my freshman year of high, School i'm playing
soccer and in the off season After, NOVEMBER i tell
my MOTHER i want to improve my soccer. Game and
that was the Year Rosie career at The Minnesota vikings
took up. Ballet, okay and my mother had, danced but
(13:07):
she her physique was not the aesthetic of, balanchine which
was a dominant. Esthetic she, says you should take up, ballet, balance,
footwork et. Cetera, YEP i walk into class at The
Emson school Of balle and there's twenty nine women yeah
and me yeah, Right and LIKE i didn't NEED. AI
(13:28):
i didn't need a software. Written twenty nine, Women me
sitting on the bench with twelve guys, cold AND i go.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Ballet it was LIKE i went for the thirteen year
old chemical makeup of a young. BOY i went. Ballet,
yeah looks, like, YEAH i can do.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
This this is not LIKE i don't even care If
i'm In Swan lake at.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
Home THEN i find out were Discovered i'm good at.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
It yeah, Yeah AND i uh.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Drop soccer and stay with Balt and it's actually taught
me a lot about, discipline taught me a lot about.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
You, know in the nineteen.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Seventies it's not like we have a rush of young
men taking it up about, ridicute being ridiculed, yep and
kind of having the confidence and. Certainty but that's HOW i.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Started SO i started on a whim at six or
seven In, Andover massachusetts BECAUSE i just needed something.
Speaker 4 (14:23):
To do after.
Speaker 3 (14:23):
School my mom was a. Teacher she couldn't always come
to get me right right after. School AND i didn't know,
it but when we signed me, up it was this
Like Russian vaganova super, strict you, know no, talking getting
yield at And russian And. French my first, teacher, Actually Mara,
mier was a Former israeli prima ballerina who was just
(14:44):
like very serious and SO i never got to do
the fun dancing with like the competitions and the, costumes
and it was so serious AND i learned a lot
of discipline, too AND i ended up eventually moving on
To Boston bala WHERE i danced escially At Boston Ballet.
School oh, wow was that your kind of experience, too
(15:04):
like the the, serious very disciplined.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
Ballet, YEAH i.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Mean WELL i did. IT i split. It so one
IS i was not allowed to never not take.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Ballet but THEN i also added On Gus giardano jazz,
yeah and later On Hubbard street.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Dance. Yeah but ballet was the fundamental and it was.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Also extremely discipline and extremely kind OF i would, say,
harsh so much as we're not really interested in your.
Creativity these are the, rules they've been passed on for three.
Centuries they're going to follow the, rules.
Speaker 3 (15:41):
Right, well mine Was mine was harsh and how many
of you can relate to, this like That's russian? Praise,
yeah and praise came so, infrequently AND i mean the
abuse felt, daily the praise was maybe your. YEARLY i
kept doing it BECAUSE i got conditioned to seek someone's
(16:05):
approval like once a, year AND i ended up doing
it for ten, years probably longer than really, then probably
longer THAN i should, yeah because like you, know starting
at six or, SEVEN i was on point at, eight
which is way too. Early and THEN i was dancing
six days a week through summers Through, christmas no vacations
(16:25):
for ten. Years it Was it defined me and it
got to a point with like.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Eating disorders and.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Stuff but also just it got to a point WHERE
i didn't know WHO i was without, it AND i
couldn't imagine leaving, it AND i. DID i left when you,
Did LIKE i think you got an offer to Join
joffrey right a.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
Scholarship the ballet.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
School, Yeah AND i was coming around to the time
where you would need to apply for, college AND i,
SAID i can't keep doing, this and SO i quit
right BEFORE i needed to apply to. College how did
you make that decision when you're offered this incredible. Opportunity
(17:07):
when you got to that place where you're good and
people are saying you are, good you should do.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
This, well it's, funny you. Say SO i went out
to go try.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
Out, Yeah and a friend of mine From chicago was
in The Jeoffrey, company AND i stayed with her and
three other dancers who are all in The jeoffrey.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
And the exposure to that, LIFE i, SAID i am
not doing.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
This you saw what it would.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Be, yeah and the other.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
THING i was, good BUT i would never be. Principal
same AND i had too big an ego for. That.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Yeah, Yeah and SO i Decided i'm going to go to.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
College AND i told my. Parents my mother was very,
disappointed and She's, jewish so she's still. Disappointed in ninety,
THREE i have done nothing to warrant not taking.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Up ballet in my. LIFE i, mean there'll be a
moment and she'll just. Go you could have been a,
DANCER i don't.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
KNOW i got, chiefs The, President, yeah, Yeah ambassador, Mayor,
no you could have been a. Dancer you could have
done something with your. Life you crap had, that you.
Know you went to ballet school to get yelled, at
try to get a compliment out of A jewish mother
doesn't happen so?
Speaker 2 (18:15):
True, Okay, yeah they give it to you once every. Decade.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
Okay SO i convinced my parents THAT i was going
to go to school In New, york that IF i missed,
DANCE i would.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Go back to.
Speaker 1 (18:29):
Dancing and the moment they drove off after they dropped
me off At Sarah lawrence through the ballet.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Shoes against the, wall sin. Sucker, Yeah and NOW i
danced at, school.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
Kept it up after. School twice a, WEEK i would
take one, ballet one kind of modern slash. Jazz and
that was WHAT i.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Did but it was not really WHAT i wanted in my.
LIFE i didn't know WHAT i, wanted BUT i knew
that wasn't. It?
Speaker 3 (18:55):
Ye so, yeah same WHEN i shut that door AND
i got TO i got to, school it was.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
So clear THAT i had made the right.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Decision did you know what you wanted to do when
you got to college or were you kind of?
Speaker 4 (19:09):
Exploring?
Speaker 1 (19:10):
NO i mean, one you Know Sarah lawrence WHERE i
went at a early childhood education AND i THOUGHT i
wanted to be an early childhood. Educator AND i did
some stuff in that work in that that evolves to
early childhood.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
Psychology and then one SUMMER i.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Worked for a public interest, Group Common, cause AND i, said,
well this is WHAT i. Love. Now if you ask
my friends from high, school they, said, oh we all
knew you were go into public.
Speaker 4 (19:44):
Life REALLY i did not know.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
It they, say that's.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
WHAT i wanted it kind OF i discovered, it AND
i just AND i discovered this was WHAT i really.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
Had a passion.
Speaker 1 (19:55):
For AND i actually one of those rare cases when everybody, says,
oh follow your.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
PASSION i actually followed my.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Passion how do you meet The? Clintons how do you
get involved?
Speaker 1 (20:18):
There so nineteen eighty eight or eighty, SEVEN i am
the political director of The Democratic Congressional Campaign. Committee the
chairman Is Congressman Burall anthony From. Arkansas so when we
used to go, recruiting AND i go around the country
to get people who run For, congress we would fear
(20:39):
episodically periodically stop back In, arkansas and there was a
governor by the name Of Bill, clinton AND i got
to know he comes up To chicago nineteen ninety one
to give a speech As Vince laine that had In
Chicago Housing authority was doing different things on public, safety
in public housing.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
At Capri, Green Robert Taylor, holmes et.
Speaker 1 (21:01):
Cetera and Then Governor clinton AND i keep up our.
Relationship and when he decides to run for, PRESIDENT i
was single AND i, thought you know, WHAT i want
to do. THIS i want to try, this and he
asked IF i would be financed. Director but that's HOW
i got the, No Bill.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Clinton did you imagine.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
Like when he announced he was going to run or even,
before like this guy's got.
Speaker 4 (21:26):
Something, well two.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Things one IS i wanted To one of my life
goals was to work in The White.
Speaker 4 (21:32):
House, yeah for a.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
PRESIDENT i believed. It second, IS i did. Believe remember
you got to come out Of.
Speaker 1 (21:40):
Jimmy carter n, Eighty walter Mont dale in eighty, Four
Mike decoccus in eighty.
Speaker 4 (21:45):
Eight, yeah that was not the.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Course and you're going to need a Different now we
say Different. DEMOCRATS i don't know IF i would have
said it intellectualized.
Speaker 2 (21:54):
It it's a different.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Depract but following that, stream you couldn't do the same
thing over. AGAIN i expected from hisself AND i Thought
clinton had a capacity that very Few democrats, had and
SO i was willing to take that my father yelled at.
Me he, says in that Great israeli, accent what are
you a? Schmuck you're going down To who is this?
Speaker 2 (22:15):
Guy what does he? Do you?
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Know and he was at two, percent, right and people forget,
this he was at two. Percent and those were the
days that All washington was a flutter About Bill bradley
and Manriy O, cuomo. Etcetera and you're going to a
place Called. Arkansas, yeah what are you an? Idiot that's how.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
My dad would.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
Say he loved, Me what are you an? Idiot AND
i SAID i wanted to do, this. Etcetera and the
rest is.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Sister it.
Speaker 3 (22:43):
Is you, know there's recently been a lot of looking
back at The clintons and you, know At Bill clinton's.
Behaviors i'm wondering if you have any thoughts on the
way The, democrats including some some feminists at the, time
defended him credit his, accusers like people are kind of
(23:03):
wrestling with that now And i'm just wondering if you
had any thoughts on.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
That, well it was kind of at the, time also
discussed when we were.
Speaker 1 (23:12):
There tell, ME i mean, NO i mean when during
the presidency a LOT i mean during the kind of impeachment.
Process there was a lot of attacks women leaders and
women groups for defending a guy and a person that
they thought didn't deserve to be. PROTECTED i think if
(23:32):
you look at, it had this happened twenty years, Later
i'm not sure any of those women or.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Groups would have come to his.
Speaker 1 (23:40):
Defense, yeah because of our politics and what change in
our value.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
System it's a.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
Country, yeah after The White, house you join an investment,
bank but it's not long before you decide to run
for office. Yourself and what made you want to cross
over and go from staff to.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Principle, well.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
So let's say, interesting we have three. KIDS i didn't
have a bucket to spit in a window. THROW i
needed to make some, money BUT i didn't have the
money for a down payment on my. Home amy AND
i started a, family and we wanted to get a,
home AND.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
I put it. Together and, anyway, yeah so what she's.
Sleeping it was A saturday.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
AND i was watching the kids out in the front
yard and Then Congressman rodabagoivitch runs.
Speaker 4 (24:34):
By oh my, god and he.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Goes you, Know i'm thinking of running for. Governor will
you helped? Me AND i, said you, know, SURE i,
have you, know not a problem or. Whatever and we
talked briefly and he's running in place while we're, talking
and then he starts to run AND i just remember
he looks over his left shoulder and, goes you.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Should run for my. SEAT i had not thought about
it at.
Speaker 4 (24:54):
All oh my.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
Gosh, now being the good FATHER i.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
DID i went in the, house left the kids out
in the front yard by themselve on a what AND
i called who is a dear friend of, Mine Congressman
Rosa doloro From New, Haven AND i, said, Hey and
this is What rob, said roses like an older, sister
and she said you should do it except For redline
talked To axelrod and THEN i DECIDED i had achieved
(25:21):
quicker THAN i thought my family's financial, security WHICH i
had a responsibility to do BEFORE i went.
Speaker 4 (25:28):
Back at the bank.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Before, yeah much quicker THAN i. THOUGHT i had no.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Sense, now if you look at the, district predecessors Are Dan,
Rostenkowski Roman, Kachinski Franken, Nuns, you Rob, Igoyevitch Mike, Flannagan
Ram Israel emanuel is not fit in the district And
i'm running against, well there's four of us in the.
Field i'm running against A polish woman.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Who's in state. Wreck so if you had a, bank
put your money on the.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
Bat.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yeah BUT i DECIDED i didn't want to pass this.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
UP i didn't want to have an opportunity and not
AND i, Decide, Okay i'm gonna do.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
It Was amy on. Board, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yes so.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
When we were, DATING i told her two. THINGS i
would never run for, office and we would live. Overseas
so the WAY i look at, it we lived In.
Japan i'm like one for. Two, okay she thinks they're
running For congress and. Mayor it was a bait and.
Switch SO i can't imagine why she came to that,
(26:36):
conclusion and to her great credit support if this is
what you, want she, Says, LOOK i, mean let's be
honest for any, family and she's you, Know Mama beer
protecting the.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Cubs this is Not if this is what you, want.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
Great but you know we have A AND i give
her a lot of credit about both Through congress and through,
mayor of making sure that the kids were.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Secure, yeah they.
Speaker 1 (27:07):
Were in a home of love and that whatever was
done outside the house vice a ve that my. Job
it didn't infect who they were in the household we were,
building and that's while we did it. Together it wasn't
fifty to fifty and so she was, supportive and it
wasn't it wasn't option, one two or three in her
(27:28):
choices of WHAT i did in my.
Speaker 4 (27:29):
Life, no you had promise her you wouldn't do that. Thing,
okay who?
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Knew, okay two thousand and six is a very interesting
year for you Because hillary is assumed to be running
for two thousand and, eight and you say you would
support her in that. Effort but Then Barack, obama your
home state, senator says he might run. Too so, like
how conflicted are? You and how how public is that
(27:56):
conflict in.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Two thousand and when they're. Running two. Things, ONE i
said That i'm going to hide under my desk with my.
Blanket i'm not coming out till they have a. NOMINEE
i said it.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Publicly, oh because you didn't want to have to pack
SAID i have.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
It first of, ALL i Knew President obama when he
was a state. Senator we were Part there was a
number of us of which he AND i were part
of the next generation coming.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
Up, yeh.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah and Obviously david's very close to. Him i'm very
close To, david. Etc we've met numerous times when he
was a state. Senator on the other, hand i'd Be
i'm nothing Without Bill, clinton, right AND i know, that And.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I'm old school about. Loyalty SO i called up Person.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
CLINTON i, Said, HEY i know HOW i got, here
BUT i have a senator for my, state So i'm
not endorsing, him BUT i can't Endorse hillary against.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Him what did he?
Speaker 2 (28:55):
Say he got, It he understood.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
It i'm not sure everybody, else the other people on both,
Sides I'M i sure got.
Speaker 2 (29:03):
It, yeah he understood.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
It AND i said the same thing then presidential Candidate,
obama AND i, Said i'm not Endorsing.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Hillary that would be wrong to.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
You BUT i can't endorse you either because it would
be wrong to the man that gave me my start
in national, politics which Is Bill.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
Clinton i'm not doing, it and so don't ask. Me
so what ends? Up he asked me to be chief
staff when.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
We'll get you one way or the.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Other BUT i hid under my desk until he had a.
Speaker 4 (29:31):
Nominee that was a tough, primary you know.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
It, was but it was good for the.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
Party it was And President obama would tell You hillary
made him a better.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
Candidate, first you could see. It you could see it.
Happening he wasn't in real. Time you, know people forget.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
This, now this is the weirdo in.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Me The Bill, clinton you, know in The Barack obama you,
know are not who they.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
Are on day. One, yeah in the process they.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
Emerge now they have raw, talent they have, capacity but
the process sharpens the. Knife do they become The Bill
clinton we know about in our mind's, eye The President
obama that we know in our mind's, eye that is
not where they, were and they, won they become.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
That they don't start.
Speaker 3 (30:18):
THERE i was in that. Prime that was a tough.
PRIMARY i covered it tough. GENERAL i was supporting. McCain
when did you know That Barack obama was going to win?
Speaker 4 (30:29):
This?
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, back uh.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
Huh when we win in six and we start dealing
with from the, Majority President, Bush, YEAH i know that
The democrats are going to win and it you know.
Speaker 4 (30:48):
That, Yes do you know that McCain's going to be the?
Nominee probably?
Speaker 1 (30:52):
No BUT i could tell both where the economy Was Iraq,
war we won thirty one.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Seed you could also look at poling early, on and
see none of that had.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Dissipated, YEAH i, thought whoever wins the, nomination that's a
nomination worth.
Speaker 3 (31:09):
Having did you consider McCain a formidable.
Speaker 4 (31:14):
Opponent, YEAH i mean you have.
Speaker 1 (31:17):
TO i, mean but he gets dealt a horrible. Hand
he's coming at the end of eight years Of George,
bush a very unpopular, war and a financial and residential housing.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Meltdown he just draws a bad.
Speaker 1 (31:31):
Hand now you could go through who he picks for
his running, mate how he does, that.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Etc but he has a bad.
Speaker 1 (31:39):
Hand and The, democrats whoever we, nominate is going to be,
changed and no, age no matter what changes in the. Air,
now about four three weeks befour weeks before the, Election
i'm At leah's soccer. Game she's about nine years, old she's,
(32:00):
younger and we're on the lake front phone rings and
It's Senator. Obama It's, september and he, Says i'm just
giving you a heads.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Up i'm coming after you after this IF i.
Speaker 1 (32:13):
WIN i want you to be chief a Step AND
i told, him in no uncertain terms THAT i was
changing my phone number And i'm not doing, THAT i, Said,
amy AND i are. Set i've been to The White house.
BEFORE i don't want to do that again with a young.
FAMILY i, Said i'm not doing. IT i did it
WHEN i was. Single up until the, END i Said
i'm not it's not fair to the family And amy And.
Eric he, says you say all, that But i'm just
(32:34):
letting you. Know and then he Called OBVIOUSLY i also
saw him election night and he, says we're talking tomorrow.
Speaker 4 (32:43):
Morning so how did he get you to do?
Speaker 1 (32:46):
It, well you, know this goes back To grandpa m
that when The president of The United states asked you
to do, something it's either yes or, yes, sir and
you just got to figure out between those two which
one you're anting ancering? What, YEAH i didn't want to do.
IT i had MY i gotta be. Honest amy and
the kids were. Set our life was. SET i had
my sights set on being the, speaker AND i was
(33:10):
doing WHAT i did from the d trip c and
caucus chair WHERE i was, going AND i figured out
the chest.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Pieces it worked out.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Okay but you know the first six months of his,
tenure which are not exactly WHAT i call a stroll
in the. Park amy AND i are living apart And
i'm without my, family and it's AS i used to,
say in The White, house it's a family friendly to
(33:39):
the first. Family everybody else gets kind of a. STOUT
i used To The other THING i used to say,
was Thank, god It's, friday two more work days Still,
monday and so that's kind of AND i knew. That
but you, know The president of The United states at
a critical, moment and he's a. FRIEND i was also
the chair of his transition FOR Us senate.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
When he, wins and you know how to do.
Speaker 1 (34:03):
It, yeah in the same way THAT i would not
Abandon President clinton with the chips were, Down President obama
Or president Like obama's walking into a. Situation let's be,
honest nobody had faces in fifty, years sixty.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
YEARS i knew.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Something about The, HILL i knew something about The White.
HOUSE i knew something about, politics AND.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I knew how to run.
Speaker 4 (34:23):
Things he needed you and you have to.
Speaker 3 (34:26):
Serve, Yeah so at any point during your tenure do
you come to enjoy? It there are times that look
like you enjoyed. It chief Of, Staff, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
Are you out of your? Mind?
Speaker 1 (34:39):
Now in, retrospect when you're having a glass of red,
wine you look at the book with all the black
and white. Photos, yes going through, it you're you know
that painting by Ed munk the, Screen that's what You're. Yeah, okay,
no there is no there is no no enjoyment going.
Speaker 2 (35:02):
Through, it because, literally he could be high.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Fiving we just passed the bill and you're back at
your desk dealing with the next.
Speaker 2 (35:08):
Problem and this is non stop.
Speaker 1 (35:11):
And and you, know you got a healthcare. Crisis, yeah
you got a recession near a, depression you got the
auto industry, collapsing you got the financial sector, collapsing and
you got everybody and the tea.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Party, yeah beginning this was what You you tell me what's? Enjoyable?
Speaker 4 (35:32):
Yeah, right?
Speaker 2 (35:33):
Nothing. NOTHING i mean.
Speaker 1 (35:35):
Now in, retrospect is it rewarding that you were part
of creating universal healthcare At? Asia from a why you
get into public service one hundred going through?
Speaker 2 (35:46):
It, yeah you are just a stressed out, Person that's
all you.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
Are so was going back To chicago to run for
mayor was that a fam about family.
Speaker 4 (35:59):
Or is that something you'd always wanted to?
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Do? NO i, mean well there's a so WHEN i
Tell President, OBAMA i don't want to do this whatever he, goes,
well what else do you want to do besides p.
Speaker 2 (36:06):
Speakers do you know we're going From chicago one?
Speaker 1 (36:10):
Day you, know ast of those the other Offices, MAYOR i,
mean if you're In, chicago mayor's mayor's alpha Dog Axe
rods as we both. Did that used to always, say
AND i agree with, him there are five great jobs
in public. Life, president governor Of, California governor Of New,
York mayor Of New York, city or mayor Of. Chicago
(36:31):
and my, joke my joke Was i've had one and
a half of these jobs and so but as soon
As Mayor daily says he was not going to seek,
reelection you, KNOW i, said, okay this is AND i
had come to nineteen months With President. Obama that's kind
of the longevity of a chief of Stat The president's joke,
(36:52):
was do you Think ram will stop buya sayabye on
the way, Out AND.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I was, like, bo.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
This is the most important. Question oh, okay when do
you pick up fly?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Fishing, okay this is.
Speaker 4 (37:15):
Now, yeah you love fly, Fishing, YES i love.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
FISHING i mostly, spinfish BUT i also fly. Fish my
husband's a big fly.
Speaker 2 (37:21):
FISHERMAN i love fly.
Speaker 1 (37:23):
FISHING i, know SO i this is weird because usually
you a would, say you know.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Upstate.
Speaker 1 (37:31):
WISCONSIN i had a friend who loved to, travel love fly,
fishing recently passed away and wants to organize a fan
too family trip To. ARGENTINA i take it up in
two thousand and, three and it's become an obsession of.
Speaker 2 (37:48):
Mine. Yeah, yeah not like SOMETHING i. Enjoy, yeah on.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
Obsession i'm ambassador AND i go To New zealand twice
to go fly.
Speaker 4 (37:57):
Fishing oh you send me that? VIDEO i saw.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
It, yes, YES i love fly. FISHING i took it
up in two thousand and three WHEN i was. Mayor
my older Brother Zeke Skip paul paula gala a group of.
Us every year when The Missouri river opened up first
week Of. May we would do a three day float
down The Missouri river go fly.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
Fishing THAT i can't have to. Me standing in the.
WATER i. Don't i'm not a fan of, floating but
standing in the water like to.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
Wade got.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
It the water's rushing on you and you're reading the.
Water where do you think the fish will? Be, casting hitting,
it hooking, it having something live on your.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
HANDSHAKE i just love. IT i can't get enough of.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
IT i fish With he's great and his son's a
guide In.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
Alaska, yeah, Yeah aaul's a very he's into it, Too, yes,
very he's very into. IT i send.
Speaker 1 (38:55):
Him there's a group of us that's send photos each
other on, yeah fly.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Fishing, Yeah paul's always there's a, hug you. Know, yeah,
yeah so We.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
But let me just be, Clear, yes this is not
this doesn't scream fly Fish, okay.
Speaker 3 (39:15):
Yeah you. Know it's such a romantic. Sport AND, i
as a, WOMAN i GOTTA i gotta tell. YOU I
i fished.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
A lot of.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
WATERS i was fishing The Keen eye In alaska one.
Year i've done that several. Times And i'm ganging these
giant kings out of out of the, river both on
a fly and then on like an eggsact. Bait BUT
i felt so primal pulling this thing out of the,
water gutting it and cleaning it in on the, water
taking it to the river, bank putting it on a,
fire cooking and eating. IT i felt like there's NOTHING
(39:48):
i can't, do, now do you.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Know WHAT i? Mean it's just the best.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Feeling and it was a preparation for The trump presidency.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Survival, OKAY i actually have been on the copper up
in the last.
Speaker 4 (40:00):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, Great uh, NO.
Speaker 1 (40:03):
I i'm with you about. THIS i think there's something very.
Spiritual AND i don't know how to explain. This you,
know your rod is bending down and you have this
thing that's just yanking and pulling and heading, downstream and
your how much you're supposed to let it run versus putting.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Tension there is nothing like that.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
Live feeling in your hand yep of that fish at
the end of a.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Line.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
Ye and it's hard to explain to people who've never. Experienced,
Yes AND i find it also very relaxing me.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
TOO i FEEL i hunt as, well AND i feel the.
Same really, yeah SO i hunt and. FISH i feel
the same. Way you're so, focused especially, hunting you're, listening you're,
quiet you're still unless you're, driving but like you're you're
usually If i'm in a, Blind i'm, Quiet i'm, Listening i'm.
Speaker 4 (40:56):
Watching you can't think about.
Speaker 2 (41:00):
Techs or you, know it blocks everything.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
Else it completely does and there's nothing else that does
that for, me, RIGHT i.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Mean, so you Know amy likes to fly, fish and
so we kind of do it. Together Although i'm a
little ON i know you find it shocking a little
on the. Spectrum i'm obsessive about, it, sure but, yeah,
yeah you know how these flies they have these weird.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Names?
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Yeah is there a committee that meets down in the
basement with likes four six packs and they come up
with these ridiculous?
Speaker 4 (41:34):
Names?
Speaker 1 (41:35):
Yeah like and then you know the guides whether, Earlier,
YEAH i got, it that's NOT i you know, Whatever
and they say these.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
NAMES i want to. KNOW i want on the. COMMITTEE i, like,
ca can't we just call It joe's? Fly why don't
we have to have?
Speaker 1 (41:47):
It you?
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Know and it's deals with like people's sexual devians and
all these weird. Names, yes it's, weird and you can't
explain it to.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
EVERYBODY i name my the words After seinfeld. Character so,
yeah Like elaine's great for like deep, jigging, okay but
then Like banya is good for something.
Speaker 4 (42:14):
Else but that's HOW i can keep track of.
Speaker 1 (42:16):
Them you go to a fly shop and they will have,
names and literally it's like Cheating Chong WE'RE i was
like stoned one night and they just came up with these.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
Names i've never heard anything like. This i'm going.
Speaker 4 (42:29):
There.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
Ridiculous, yeah but it's a great but it. Is.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
Now the interesting thing also is you hear people describe,
golf Which i've never.
Speaker 2 (42:39):
Done they will describe kind of the.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Be able to block everything, out the single like focus
outside on a single, task which is what fly. Fit you,
know with THE i have like nature AND i have.
Pictures there's bald eagle, flying there's a moose, here and
you're just fishing out in nature and by.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Yourself it's, very very restorative to your. Soul.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Totally my husband can remember every fish he's ever. Caught
are you the same?
Speaker 1 (43:07):
Way let me do it the other. Way you can
have a great day catching. Eighteen all you focus on
is the nineteenth that got.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Away, yes so what you, felt, yes and then you sit.
Speaker 1 (43:25):
Around so then the other thing is when you're on the,
water it's seventeen. Inches when you get to the shop it's,
twenty so it's called so a lot of guys, say
that's a shop, Twenty so it's means on the.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
Water on the, water it was sixteen.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Or, seventeen and just by the time five hours later
you get back to brag it's twenty.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
Inches of course it was a. Record it was a, record, yeah. Exactly,
okay let's do a lightning.
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Round, okay.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
Speaking of have you ever caught a record? Fishing if,
so what was the species and what did you catch?
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It On New?
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Zealand seven point eight pounds and it was thirty three
inches and it was a.
Speaker 2 (44:24):
Brown.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Nice oh that's a big. Brown.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
Yeah the guy said it was the second biggest he
caught that.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Year, yeah that's what he said for, me BECAUSE i
was paying.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
The day he.
Speaker 1 (44:35):
Did.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, yeah and he got a good one for that.
Speaker 3 (44:37):
Compliment bucket list fly fishing destination you haven't done.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
YET i want to go To. Mongolia oh, yeah oh.
YEAH i went To New zealand. TWICE i could never
get this. Schedule everybody Says labor day ish is the
perfect Time.
Speaker 2 (44:54):
Mongol i'd like to go. There so everybody says it's.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Spectacular i've Heard Andorra andorra's on my Last, well it
is supposed to be this incredible pocket in The. Alps
it's Like valley in The, alps this tiny little country supposed.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
To be spectacular for fly.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
Fishing and they have these fly fishing camps set.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Up they're.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Empty you just go in and use them if no
one's using them at the.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
TIME i Think.
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Mongolia and ALSO i would say northern part Of, Finland,
sweden that, Area.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
Oh, yeah, cold, yes ye.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
Yes SO i already asked you your favorite movie about
politics On Talking, politics let me ask you who your
favorite fictional president, is AND i can run down a.
Speaker 4 (45:39):
List.
Speaker 3 (45:39):
Yep so you have Like Morgan freeman In Deep, Impact
Bill pullman In Independence, Day Michael douglass and The American,
President Jeff bridges In The, Contender Kevin klein And Dave
Harrison Ford Air Force, One John, Travolta Primary, Colors Billy Bob,
Thornton Love, Actually Peter, Sellers Doctor, Strangelove Martin Sheen.
Speaker 4 (46:00):
Sting it's a pretty comprehensive.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
List, yeah it's a little too, much too. Much yeah, yeah,
uh give me the middle ones to get into number.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
Three so my Favorite Jeff bridges In The. Contender he
is so weird and great in that. Movie you Have
Michael douglas And American President the Erin sucer.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Movie that's a really good.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
One, Yeah Michael. DOUGLAS i happen to Like Michael douglas
too as a.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
Person AND i Love Aaron sorkin and the way he,
wrote it's a very. Capra, yes it's so.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
GREAT i don't. Know these imaginary presidents.
Speaker 4 (46:36):
To, me not the real. Thing do you know the real?
Speaker 2 (46:39):
THING i, SAID i. Don't i'm not into.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
It well can you be like, no because that's? Fictional,
no stop.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
It that's. Right what's the Best chicago food? Stuff be, careful.
Speaker 1 (46:51):
Best chicago food stuff In Mexican american communities like back
of The, arts in The Grouse, restore there are taco
stands in the. Back there's a particular one in the
back of the. Yards i'm not telling anybody because then
people will go and ruin. It there is probably the
best Tacos i've ever. Had AND i would say that.
(47:14):
IS i, know we got our, pizza we got Our
Winni circle hot dogs very.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
Good, yeah you got Your polish delicacy.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Is but the tacos in a grocery store in the.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
Back there's a Few mexican grocery.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Stores there's two to three of them that have, it
and it's really.
Speaker 2 (47:40):
SPECTACULAR i do want TO i know this is supposed
to be a lightning.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Rod there's another taco place near our house and the
other day about a month.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
AGO i. WAS i went in to get some.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
FOOD a lot of cops, visited and the, woman Who
i've known for years through my, mayorality et, cetera just
started crying to like looked up and the fear in
her eyes because of what was going.
Speaker 2 (48:04):
On With ice and everything like.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
That and she could AND i you, know you can
read about, it, obviously what has happened to her and
is what's happening to her is existential and the amount
of fear she's explaining how she bikes to work and
how she had to change the route and how she.
Speaker 2 (48:25):
Now rides alleys so, heartbreaking, yes. Totally, Yeah BUT i
was reading.
Speaker 4 (48:33):
About it and meeting someone is totally, DIFFERENT i.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
MEAN i, Think BUT i MEAN i was telling you
in the beginning by this interview about my grandfather who
flees the, programs and here In, america which is a
symbol of, freedom we're chasing people who are trying to
get to.
Speaker 2 (48:50):
Work it's.
Speaker 4 (48:51):
Crazy.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (48:53):
Yeah so what's the best thing you ate In?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Japan the best, thing, well even straight food is A
Michelin star. Restaurant, Right so if you go to the
northern island Of, hakkaido probably the best Venicon i've ever
had in my, life full.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Stop there was a very unique.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Sushi restaurant that served a shark and tuna dish THAT
i had never had anywhere.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Else near The Skejee market In.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
Tokyo there's a place in the basement Where amy AND
i had found with this ambassador From singapore and his
wife that would go to the market pick up the
back spine of the tuna that was usually. Discarded you
would get a shell and you would scrape the meat
(49:53):
between the ribs and that was the sushi you. Had,
god it Was i've never had anywhere off the. Charts
the other thing they would do is they would take
the tunic jaw and they would make a dish out
of that which is filled with. Meat, yeah like so
those and then down in the southern island A, kishu
(50:18):
they have a set of street food from the runs
of the salmon et cetera that.
Speaker 2 (50:23):
Is off the, chart but you can't.
Speaker 1 (50:25):
Oh In, kanazawa it was a young chef and his
wife who turned home into a. Restaurant there's a, home
old home that got left and they had made Food
japanese traditional kind of seven course that was off the.
(50:46):
JOB i was trying To i'm going. BACK i was
trying to get in AND i couldn't get.
Speaker 2 (50:51):
IN i can't get. It it's. Unbelievable.
Speaker 3 (50:53):
Wow, okay what's your favorite band or musical artist right?
Speaker 1 (50:57):
NOW i always say my Favor put somebody LIKE i
get into a place And i'll.
Speaker 4 (51:02):
Listen, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (51:04):
Right Abraham. ALEXANDER i really Like Jacob. BANKS i really
like what genre. Salt they're kind OF r AND. B
Jacob banks is From, africa But ritish. Citizen Abraham alexander's
got a little spirituality to, it but also SOME r
AND b. SOUND i Think Cane, brown which is An
(51:27):
African american country. Singer chabouzi is. ANOTHER i Like Chris.
STAPLETON i Like Zach Bryan Luke. Combs then on THE
i have to give a shout out To wilco And
Jeff tweety here From chicago BECAUSE i think they're great.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
Music so that's.
Speaker 1 (51:49):
Good kind of a Plactic yeah did?
Speaker 3 (51:52):
YOU i didn't have this, question BUT i just thought of.
IT i fell in love with classical music through through,
ballet just tearing it all the time, time AND i
Found i've returned to classical.
Speaker 4 (52:02):
MUSIC i had a sort of a nervous. Breakdown in twenty.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
TWENTY i struggle with, anxiety BUT i have found classical
music to be incredibly soothing and.
Speaker 4 (52:16):
Calming do you like classical? Music?
Speaker 1 (52:19):
Complicated only for this recent my father self taught you
could hear two notes and say de Vorda Mahler, yes by,
myself and so that ends up torturing the rest of,
us all three.
Speaker 2 (52:37):
Boys SO i do like, it BUT i want to be.
HONEST i have a love hate.
Speaker 4 (52:42):
RELATIONSHIP i get, that but, YEAH i got that On sunday.
Speaker 2 (52:45):
Mornings so.
Speaker 1 (52:48):
Every, morning BECAUSE i, CAN'T i get up at, FIVE
i make coffee AND i bring it up To amy in.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
Bed she gets it every. Day oh.
Speaker 4 (52:58):
Nice, yeah to.
Speaker 1 (53:00):
Start, today it's downhill after, That i'm back in the
doghouse by eight a. M but at five point.
Speaker 4 (53:07):
Thirty you're starting.
Speaker 1 (53:08):
RIGHT i start, right and then it's a black diamond down.
Mail but On saturday And, sunday if we don't really have,
ANYTHING i put on music AND i start with, classical
and then it would go Classical Nora jones and then
WHAT i want to listen?
Speaker 3 (53:28):
To oh, good, Iression, YEAH i eas her into, it, yeah,
yeah with a good cup of dark roast coffee on
the side of the. Bed this is a perfect segue
into our last. QUESTION i ask it at the end
of every pod because it's the most important to. Me
this is my, spirituality it's my. Culture when is it
iced coffee?
Speaker 1 (53:47):
Season i'm not the guy to ask the answer that
question BECAUSE i Like i'm, black, hot, dark.
Speaker 4 (53:56):
Gross, simple don't.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
DON'T i don't want to hear about. MILK i don't
want to hear about. OATS i don't want to hear
about any of that. STUFF i don't want to hear about.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
Caramel sure, don't, no, no, now.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
Now the other. Thing full. Stop let me go.
Speaker 1 (54:10):
Back japan has one of the greatest coffee cultures you'll
find anywhere in the. World, yes, yes every cup is individually.
Made there's no pot o. Coffee there's this great Near
Skichi market In tokyo place Called, tourette unbelievably wins best
(54:31):
coffee roaster In, asia opened up and did us pop
up in Both New york and la, oh and it
has an incredible coffee. Culture BUT i am.
Speaker 4 (54:41):
A, purist dark, hot rose.
Speaker 2 (54:45):
Hot coffee in the middle of the. Summer i'm not
really interested in messing with.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
That, Now no, milk no, sugar no, honey no, whiskey
don't play with.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
This, okay it's worked going all the way back To.
Speaker 4 (54:57):
Egypt that's.
Speaker 2 (54:58):
True nobody asked your, opinion that's WHY i, yeah, okay.
Yep so now when do you think it starts ice?
Speaker 3 (55:03):
Coffee it's iceby, season year. Round, okay is the correct.
Answer we like that you like, coffee that's, fine but
the correct answer is your. Round I'm i'm From, massachusetts
the land Of Dunkin, donuts and ice coffee is my.
Speaker 4 (55:18):
Religion it's really oh, yeah, yeah hot, coffee hot black.
Coffee that's your. Choice, yeah the free. Country.
Speaker 1 (55:26):
Two and then you put a cap and you say
two cups a, day of which when you get the,
third it doesn't count because you didn't really finish the.
Speaker 4 (55:33):
Second. That, yeah that's. Coffee.
Speaker 2 (55:36):
Math i'm county and that's the way we. Count, yeah that's.
Coffee that's why everybody can vote In, Chicago.
Speaker 4 (55:44):
Rob, emmanuel this was so. Delightful i'm so glad we did.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
This, okay next, time we're going through, books great history
books that we have.
Speaker 4 (55:53):
Read, okay, Great, YEAH i love. THAT i love that for.
Us thank you so. Much this was this was. EXCELLENT
i loved to know you.
Speaker 2 (56:00):
MORE i thank you very much for doing.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
This coming up next week On off The, CUP i
sit down and talk to best selling author Of The
Orchid thief and her new, memoir Joy, ride Author Susan
orlean being out in.
Speaker 5 (56:15):
The world and meeting people and reporting and, researching which
is really a. Thrill and then the writing part where it's,
suddenly oh my, god how DO i tell this?
Speaker 3 (56:27):
Story off The cup is a production Of iHeart podcasts
as part of The Reason Choice.
Speaker 4 (56:34):
Network if you want, more check out the Other.
Speaker 3 (56:36):
Reason choice Podcasts spolitics With Jamel hill And Native Land.
Pod For off The, Cup i'm your, Host Si. Cup
editing and sound design By Derek. Clements our executive producers
are Me Se, Coup Lauren, hanson And Lindsay. Hoffman rate
and review wherever you get your, podcasts follow or subscribe
for new episodes Every.
Speaker 4 (56:55):
Wednesday
Host
S.E. Cupp
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com