December 24, 2025 • 49 mins
Today, we're sharing a favorite Off the Cupp episode from 2024: a conversation with Larry Wilmore. In it, S.E. and Larry talked about Rob Reiner and his dad, Carl Reiner. It was a really good conversation about so many things, from parenting to comedy, but it just so happened that the Reiners' figured prominently. And since, surely, S.E. isn't alone in thinking a lot about Rob Reiner and his movies, we thought this episode would be a nice replay episode this Christmas Eve if you didn't get a chance to hear it the first time. S.E. shares one of her favorite Rob Reiner movies. If you want to share your favorite Rob Reiner movie with S.E. email us at offthecupp@gmail.com and we may revisit the subject in a future episode.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Off the Coup.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Christmas Eve, and I've been thinking a lot about
all of our Off the Cup episodes. I wanted to
share one that aired in twenty twenty four. I know
we've got a lot of new listeners this year. I'm
so grateful. So you might have missed this, but because
of the awful, tragic death of Rob Reiner, I've been
(00:29):
thinking about this particular episode a lot. It's a conversation
with my friend Larry Wilmore, and in it we talked
a lot about Rob Reiner and one of my favorite
of his movies, The American President. We talked a lot
about his dad, Carl Reiner, and one of Rob's best friends,
(00:49):
Al Brooks.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We had a really.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Good conversation about a lot of things, but it just
so happened the Reiner's figured prominently, and I'm thinking a
lot about Rob and his movies. I know a lot
of other people have been too. I saw that our
friend Stephen Webber just posted that he watched stand By
Me for the first time, and I've gone back to rewatch.
(01:16):
You know some favorites like when Harry met Sally and
The Princess Bride, and a few good men. I mean,
Rob Briner had so many, so many great movies. It's
just kind of comforting to go back and listen to
this conversation with someone who knew him. So I really
liked it. I hope you like it too. I thought
(01:36):
a good sort of entry into the holiday season. And
then don't forget on New Year's Eve. We also have
a very.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Special off the Cup.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's a compilation of.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Our favorite answers to the time honored question when is
it ice coffee season? You don't want him ass that.
It's really fun. It's super entertaining to hear the multither.
So check that out too, and uh, listen, I'll see
you in twenty twenty six. Let's let's hope for a
better year than twenty twenty five. Okay, now go enjoy
(02:10):
your families.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Oh is success gonna give you a big head? I'm like,
I'm fifty two. Success had his chance when I was younger.
You know, Sorry, Success, you're a little too late, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So you know, I meet a lot of people in
this business, including people you never expect to. I've done
TV with everyone from RuPaul to Newt Gingrich, from Zach
Gallifanakis to David Milliband. It's it's a weird career. And
I know a lot of smart people. I know a
(02:44):
lot of funny people. I know some kind people. I
don't know many who are all three. But I was
lucky enough to work with my next guest several times,
I think, but most notably for me when I was
a guest on his own talk show and I had
just had my son, Jack and it was one of
the first return TV appearances for me, and I was feeling,
(03:06):
you know, a little vulnerable, a little insecure about my body,
and this person just could not have been nicer, putting
me at ease, making me feel like I could just
get back in the saddle.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I'll never forget that, because he didn't have to be.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You might know him as the one time senior Black
correspondent on The Daily Show. He was host of the
Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore, That'll Give It Away, creator
of The Bernie Mac Show, co creator of Insecure on HBO.
I Love that show, host of the Black on the
Air podcast, and so so so much more.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It's Larry Willmore welcome, Hey it say.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
It's such a nice intro. That's so nice.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I don't know if you remember that, but I remember that, Si.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I was a fan of yours for a long time.
I admire you because you were a conservative in those
liberal spaces, you know. Yeah, and you never shied down,
you know, but you were always so just quick and
smart and funny. You know, you had a light approach.
You never liked put people down. So I always I
(04:09):
admired you from afar way before that. You were on
my show and I was I was so excited when
you were going to do the show because I was
a big fan. So that's a big memory.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Oh well, that's really nice.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I feel like you had to say that because I
just said all those nice things about it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, sure, sure, Well it's mutual.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I just I think I think the world of view
and I was a fan as well.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It feels like everything.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Has changed so much since that time in twenty fifteen,
Like everything's changed, media, politics, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Oh thousand percent? You know. It's funny. The American President
was on TV the other day, you know, the Aaron
Sarkin thing from the nineties. Oh, I love that, and
I think I haven't seen it since it came out. Actually,
it wasn't one of those it wasn't a repeated viewing
thing for me, and nothing is a movie. It was fine,
but oh my god, the time and this is fiction,
(05:01):
of course, yeah, but at the time it kind of
mirrored what was about to happen with the Monica Lewinsky things. Scanna,
but this is more chaste. It's just a bachelor president
with a girlfriend.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
If I were on your staff, I would tell you
that the absolute worst thing you can do coming into
an election year is to open yourself up to character attacks.
And the quickest way to do that is to prance
around like the playboy of the Western world.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
But the things we considered scandalous back then for politics,
you can't even I mean, Trump in one sentence blows
that out of the water, you know, I mean, it's crazy.
The world has changed so much in that short amount
of time, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
You know, it's funny you brought that up because I
should get erin on the podcast, because I consulted for
his show, The Newsroom and got to know him then.
And then I guest lecture a class called Politics and
Movies at Cornell once a year, and I always show
the American President and I always have aarin give me
(05:58):
a little tidbit to tell that class, like, give me
some behind the scenes, and it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
He always leads with apologies.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I was young, yeah, and I'm like, Aaron, No, it's
such a good movie.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
It's very capra, it's very you know, Collyanna.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
But it's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And he's like embarrassed by it because it was so
naive a bit and and Rosie and you know, everyone
was ultimately a.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Good person, you know, Yeah, mister Smith is already in Washington.
Was that that is exactly And it's kind of a
precursor to the West Wing too, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It was, and that helped.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But you know, he said, I just wanted to write
a rom com in a weird place, like what would
be the weirdest place I could set a rom com?
And so he thought, well, I'll do it in the
White House. But anyway, that's that's off topic. I'm just
glad you brought that.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Up, because when you think of romantic places, you think
of the way the White House.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
The White House.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
We don't get too politic on the show because this
is supposed to be a brick from all of that anxiety,
but do you think things media politics right we'll ever
get back to normal.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Absolutely not. I think things never reset. They just go
to a new place in a different way that we
could never predict it, and that becomes the norm, you know.
But I don't think there's ever been a point in
history where we can look back and think there was
a reset, you know. Yeah, I don't. I can't remember any.
But it doesn't mean necessarily that it'll be a bad place,
(07:31):
because many times I think young people reset against whatever
the culture before, or a couple of cultures before, if
they go too far to the left. The younger generation
kind of resets right, you know, and that it goes
too far right, they kind of reset left, it seems like.
But they do it in different ways, you know, which
is what keeps making things contemporary and that sort of thing.
(07:53):
But yeah, this call for things to go back, it's
it's never going to happen. I don't know why people
make those calls.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
You know, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I think part of me at least wishes.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I don't know if you feel this way, but there
felt to me like a heyday of media, and in
particular political media.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, and that.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Involved the Daily Show, but it also just it was
a it was more fun. Yeah, and you know, the
media was booming and we're in a decline right now.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's just a fact.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's true, you know, and it's funny if
you you know, I like, you know, I've been kind
of a history buff lately going through different periods. I
like to put myself into the contemporarious, contemporaneous, you know,
moments and that sort of thing. And I was looking
at how horrible the eighteen sixties and seventies were like
in New York City and how oh, man, you talk
(08:41):
about how politics being nasty, we can't hold a candle
to what was going on. Man, oh, the civility. I mean,
it was terrible, you know. And media. What was media
then were newspapers and cartoons, you know, yeah, right, and
some of the cartoons single handedly kind of like how
the Daily Show did to a certain extent, Saturday Night Live,
(09:01):
you know, how they've lampooned people, has become the kind
of way in which we interact with politics and that
sort of thing. It'll be interesting to see what takes
the place of the Daily Show, because I don't know
if it has the same influence that it had in
that period. You were talking about, or if Saturday Night
Live continues to be that place where you know, we
can look to for what's reflecting where we are, who's
(09:25):
making comments, you know, where can we connect and that
kind of thing, you know, because they've had such an
amazing long run of doing that. Oh totally, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
What happened to Funnier Die. Wasn't Funnier Die going to
be something like that?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I think so? But I, you know what, that's a
good question. I think what Funnier Dye has its opponent
is the viral video, and that's a very formidable opponent. Yeah,
you know so, I think it's hard to manufacture viral videos.
It's just difficult. Good luck. You know, all the companies
you know es see, you know, I work in Tulliban
(09:59):
from creating shows and stuff. There have been different periods
where different companies like Verizon and that sort of thing
have tried to do these startups of making content for
your phone. People have tried it at different times, and
it always fails because they're competing against viral videos. Which
TikTok is smart because it's that you can just make
your vil video on our platform. We're not going to
(10:20):
try to make them.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
You know, I remember that because I develop as well.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And I remember being in a meeting years ago and
Quibi was going to be the.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
New Quibbi right exactly, it was.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Going to be the thing, and they wanted you to
make like eight minute content for kids walking in between
classes on college campuses.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And I was like, remember how to create this.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Way exactly exactly where? And the actual content that they're
interested in is someone just simply opening a box and
telling you what's in it. That's the content they're interested in.
So all these millions of dollars of research into what
show and it's highly produced at all this stuff eight minutes, no, no, no, no, sorry, asshole.
I just want to see somebody opening a box and
(11:03):
just tell me what's in it. That's the content on right.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I learned for this upcoming generation because my nine year old,
I mean it loves those videos watching other kids ohen
toys or games.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I know, it's amazing. Could you imagine like seeing Harry
Truman back in the day, like opening effected wat? I
got this a bound business a little later, but before that,
you know, it's Christmas Day.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I want to talk about your career and how you
became so successful and agile and diversified in everything you've done.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
But take me back before you grew up.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You grew up in Pomonas On, California, and you had
lots of siblings.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Yeah, there were six of us total. I was third
from the top.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
A common refrain I hear among comedians is like I
came from a big family, and so I had to
like being funny.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Was how I got attention?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Was that? No, not really, I just have a funny family,
but they don't know that they're funny. So my parents
are hilarious, but they just don't know it. And they're
so they were opposite. My parents divorced when I was
about nine or ten, but they're still ironically, they're still
together as they which is crazy, Like, like they're so
crazy they can't even stay away from each other even
with the divorce, you know, that's how crazy they are.
(12:41):
But like, my mom was always the extreme emotionally and
my dad was the complete opposite in a funny way.
So that was always their conflict. Like I always said,
like if I'm driving a car and I just switched things,
I'm like, Mom, what what you didn't use your blanker?
I said, you almost killed me right now, you know,
whereas a plane could crash in the house next door
(13:03):
and Desgin hmmm, I'm like, I'm like, Dad, that was
a plane crash a plane because man was not meant
to fly, you know, like he would have some philosophical
like thing like that. And my brother and I, who
we just found them so hilarious, like they were our entertainment,
you know, most of the time. And so that's that's
(13:25):
where it comes from. Really, my brother and I observing
the world around us, and we went to Catholic schools,
so we used to make fun of our nuns and
all that stuff, and the teachers and our neighbors who
we make fun of. So we had all these characters
in our world that we just found as entertainment. So
that's where my sense of humor comes from.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
That's really funny. I just watched the Albert Brooks documentary.
That was great, Oh my god, so good. I love him.
But you know that part where Rob Reiner is talking
about how.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
They were friends as kids.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, and how Carl Reiner, Rob's dad told Albert Brooks
a point when he was a teenager, like you're the
funniest person I've ever met.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Can you imagine?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, I can't imagine. In fact, I have chills right
now just even talking about it. What that must have
been like for Albert Brooks. But was there someone in
your life who told you, you know, you're really funny?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Well it wasn't so much that, but I got an opportunity.
Let me just side comment this first. This is what
Trump does in his speeches. He side speeches is what
I call it speech and then side speech. I had
the great opportunity to spend time with Carl Reiner on
three different occasions, and it was it was one of
the joys I first met him. And then I'll go
back to your question, okay, because Carl Reiner was kind
(14:38):
of an inspiration to me.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know, you know my questions don't matter. Tell me
everything about Carl.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Okay. So when I was a young comic, they had
the same called the Comedy Awards. It was something like that.
They were trying for a few years, and I think
Steve Martin was being I think Steve Martin was being honored,
I think, or maybe it was bel Brooks, one of
the two. It was probably Melbrooks. But there was this
table with Steve Martin, Rob Reiner, Carl Reiner, Mel mel
Brooks are all at this table and this young comic
(15:05):
and I wanted to say hi to Carl Reiner, you know,
but there's all these stars there and I just kind
of sheepless. You go up and I go, sorry, mister Reiner,
my name is Larry I mccomack, I wanted to say.
And he was so nice, like, oh, hey, how you
doing like to be? He said, you know what, you're
a comic and I said, you know what, you're good looking.
Dick Van Dyke was good looking, and he did great,
you'll do fam. I'm like, okay, thanks Carl. So so
(15:29):
he like gave you this cop of bit and but
here are Steve Martin, all these other people who I love.
But I zero dine on Carl Reiner, not even knowing
at the time that I would. He was the model
for the career I was going to have somebody who
was a showrunner. He was also a performer, he was
a director, He was out there the rack and took
kind of he did everything, you know. He was he
was the hyphen it before anybody who was, you know.
(15:50):
And then later he was on The Bernie mac Show, yes,
where I got him and I got to see different
phases of them. So we went out to lunch and
he's Carl Reiner, the legend at lunch, you know, telling stories,
you know, and he's where do you go to lunch? Oh? God,
who knows? It wasn't anywhere fancy? It was just was it?
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, like Studio City. It was no fancy. I want
to It was great because we're sitting at his feet,
you know, listening to these stories and all this stuff,
and he's called writer, the Legend, the rack and tour.
Then we get on set and now I'm the showrunner
and now he's the insecure actor, you know, and you
see him completely change, you know. Is that okay? Is
that right? And the whole, this whole thing that was
(16:29):
just there is just gun and I'm like, hey, it's great.
And I'm his boss now. So we have a different
relationship and we're interacting and all that stuff. And then
later they're doing the remake of The Dick Van Dyke
Show and he invited me to the set and I
go there and there's oh, you know, Dick and Dyke's
there and Mary Tyler Moore, you know, people from the originals,
some of the writers who I was fans of, like
(16:49):
Persky and dan If I'm talking to these guys now,
he's called Rener the showrunner. Yeah, okay, completely different. All
those relationships that Dick and Mary had back in eighteen
sixty one came back. You could see. You could even
see Mary's insecurity a little bit. You know, Dick there
is the start. You could see their relationship, but they're
beholden to Carl. I mean, this is this is years later,
(17:12):
all those relationships right in place. He's quick witted, he's
on it. You could see his brain working the way.
You know. I don't even know how old he was seventies, eighties,
but he was on it. I was like, wow, I
just got to see three phases of this guy.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
That's incredible.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And then the final one. I did it. He did
my podcast a couple of years before he passed away,
and I was in his home and we spent an
hour talking, just shooting the shit, and it was I see,
it was. That's why Carl Reiner legacy. I got to
spend so much time with him. But he's my he's
my show biz inspiration, somebody who did it the long term.
But what he really loves. He loves comedy, and so
(17:46):
do I, you know, and we realized that there's different
ways to express it. Sometimes it's a joke, and that's
when I did stand up. Sometimes it's a sketch, and
he just show shows. I didn't live in color, you know,
you expressed it in that way. He did Dick Van
Dykes show, I did Bernie mackshow. You know, you can.
Sometimes you need a longer for them, you know. Sometimes
I did an essay, I did it in Nightly Showing,
(18:06):
a whole different form where it's political commentary, but I'm
still looking for the humor and that sort of thing.
So I've always been I've done the different things because
my expression is comedy. But I realized you can put
it in different forms and get it out there, you know.
So when I was doing stand ups, sometimes i'd be
frustrated because I'm like, that's not really joke, but I
like it. It's funny. I go, well, what is it? Oh,
(18:26):
maybe that's a film idea, you know, right, So that's
kind of my road.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
What an awesome story.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I'm so glad I brought up the Albert Brooks documentary.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I'm so glad because that was an incredible story.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
One of your first TV roles was on a show
that was really really important to me.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Larry, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Oh, it has to be take all.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You take the good, you take the bad. You take
a booth in there, you have the tacks of.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Life's Tell me everything about Touty and Blair and Show
and Natalie and missus Garrett, tell me everything.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
What are you want about. I'm a young actor at
the time, wanting to break into show biz. I was
a theater major. I was a very serious actor at
the time, but I was also doing stand up but
I took very seriously. I used to always I go
to auditions and I'd changed the lines, not knowing that
might be offensive, but I would think it's something funnier.
So but anyhow, I did this theater reading. They were
the Olympics were coming in nineteen eighty four to la
(19:24):
and they had a year earlier they had these readings.
Even maybe it might have been even two years earlier.
It might have been two years earlier where they were
going to put on some theater for the Olympics. There
was something like that, and they had these special shows
on a friend of mine to ask if I would
do a part in it, and I ended up getting
a lot of laughs in it. And there were a
lot of people in the audience like Danny Simon, Neil
Simon's brother, people who came up to me and they
(19:45):
were like, oh, you're really funny. I'm like, oh, thank you,
you know. But there was a casting person in there
from I think Embassy Television at the time, and they
later brought me in to read for a pilot called
Aka Pablo, and I read for it. I didn't get it,
but they to me a lot and brought the same
people brought me back to read for the Facts of Life.
So the first part I read for the Facts of
Life was for two D's boyfriend, and he was this
(20:07):
illiterate like football player, like because they always had those
it's a special facts of life, you know, they would
have those. I remember those special stories. And so he
was the illiterate football player. He's ashamed of beig not
being able to read. It was that type of story
of life. So I read for it. Everything said, Larry,
you know, you were great. We really loved reading, but
we just don't believe that you're a literate.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
What a compliment, I know.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
And I'm like, but I am, trust me, I could
be stupid, guys, trust me.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
They're like, no, you can't.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And then they brought me back to play the part
of a cop. They just gave me the role because
they just liked me. Yeah, and uh, Officer Ziyakis, I
think was the name exactly what just the graffiti saying it.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Says, uh, yeah, I can't.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Say it, missus Garrett. I've been a police officer for
three years, and before that I was a kid. I've
heard just about everything.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
It was recorded, right.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah. I played a couple of episodes and it was
so surreal because it was shot on the Universal Lot,
and I used to sneak on that lot as a
you know, dreaming of being you know, part of it.
And I remember sneaking into the Alfred Hitchcock Theater and
I'm watching them edit films. I'd be in the book,
you know, scared that I'm out. Yeah, my friend and
I we would go into the dining room. We dined
(21:22):
and dashed a couple of dames. That's so great, this
is the life. I really was the kid who dreamed
of being on there, and so they'll actually be on
a show. I'll never forget. I had a dressing room.
It was like in a trailer outside and I saw
the tram go by that I used to be on,
and I want to kind of wave and do the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
How old were you?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I was in my early twenties, twenty one, twenty two
something like that. And I'll never forget. Tony Danza came
by and they all knew who he was, and he
was like, Yeah, I'm doing this new show. We just
did the pilot over there. Yeah, and that was Who's
the Boss That turned out to be you know, of course,
and it was so close. They were doing the Jefferson's
right down the home. It was such a children thing.
(22:01):
But the girls on the show were really nice, really
really nice. Yeah, and Charlotte Ray played Miss Garrett. I
was already a fan of hers, such a pro she
was so nice. But it was fun.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Could you tell?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Because Kim Fields sort of had a similar trajectory.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
She ended up.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Writing, she ended up show running, she ended up at
movies like she.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Does a lot more, yeah than you know that sitcom?
Could you tell at the time that Kim Fields was
going to be not just a star of a sitcom,
but like that, she was a real smart writer, producer,
et cetera.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Well, I don't know if I could tell that, but
her mom, Chip Fields, was I think a manager at
the time. So Kim's got that in her of there's
more than just what you're doing. Yeah, you know, so
it doesn't surprise me. She was one of the most
likable ones on that cast. I think the audience loved
Kim Fields. You know, she was so too.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I mean even the name right, like skates, I mean,
all of it.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Love.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I would see her years later and I just played
a small part and she always remember but she was
always so nice and lovely. Yeah, couldn't. I was like, man,
she's so nice and she kind of has that reputation.
It's funny, you know, we always say the stories about
people being this and that, but I tell you that
cast was just great, just really nice people. It wasn't
like one of those nasty situation type things. Yes, it's fun.
(23:18):
That was That's my break.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You also wrote for Fresh Prince of bel Air, which
was also very important to me as.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
As a child. I only write shows that important to you.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Well, obviously, clearly, what was Will Smith like then.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Okay, Will Smith another great guy. He was very approachable.
He wasn't standoffish. I was there the last season, so
I wasn't there in some of the early seasons. But
they were very tight group.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I mean the last season. He was a big star.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
He well, he hadn't quite broken out as a movie
star yet. Yeah, he was about to.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
You know, he was like the biggest thing on TV.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
He was, he was, he was pretty big, you know.
But it's funny that there is that difference when you
go up that next next step, like Michael J. Fox,
who I got to me years ago, you know, before
he was a big star, but family ties made him
a TV star, but it was back to the future
that really made him a whole different category, you know, totally.
And the same with Will with Men in Black, it
(24:14):
just put him in a just different category than fresh Prince.
But fresh Prince for us, you know, it was all
that and everything, but really cool. I still talked to
Will this day. He used to call me up over
the years and I'd come in and help them pilots
punch up that kind of stuff. Yeah. But we did
a special called a mend a docu saries on Netflix
about the Fourteenth Amendment that Will hosted and I produced
(24:35):
and I appeared on. It was great working with him,
and so that was a nice full circle moment.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
What did you think of the slat.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
It was very I thought it was very surreal.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
To me, it seemed like Will had an out of
body experience. It seemed like, I know, there's no way
if he had to do it again, he'd do the
same thing. That's one of those things. I'm sure he'd say.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
No, like, that was not the Will Smith.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
You knew, absolutely not. Yeah, you know, so I don't
know what was going on personally or whatever. I have
no idea, but it was so out of character. And
he's very aware. Will knows he's very aware of what
Hollywood is, how meaningful it is. He's very aware of
the history, the legacies, protecting your legacy, like he Tom Cruise,
(25:18):
those type of people, they always seem to protect their
legacies so so much. You could tell the people that
do that, right, those big starts. So yes, why would
Will Smith do that? It seems so out of character.
It had to have been some out of body experience
where he just left himself for a second and forgot
about that. Because somebody of that stature just doesn't make sense, you.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Know, it really didn't.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I mean from a pr point of view, or a
really any point of view, it really didn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
There's no point of view it makes sense. And Chris
Rock's a comedian. You know, he's a comedian. You know
he's making jokes. Yeah, you know he's going to make
jokes that are going to be off color, that type
of things. But that's why he's Chris Rock. That's why
we love him. So yeah, you know, and if you
have a real beef with him, you have it afterwards.
You know, you don't have it like that.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
No, no, no, no, no, can Can I get personal with you?
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
But you want to know, girl, how did you meet
your ex wife?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I met my ex wife through a blind date set
up by a dear friend of mine who's still a differend.
And we went out briefly and then we didn't date,
and then I called her out a year later, and
then we went out like one and then I called
her a year later again. It was like a start
(26:46):
and stop type of thing. Okay, yeah, and then we
I remember we ended up just talking on the phone
every day and just realized just how much we just
had in common and liked each other, and we just
got to do each other and that's pretty much how
it happen.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
She was in the business as well.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yeah, Yeah, she was an actress. She did a lot
of stage work. She was from Hawaii. Her name is Leilani,
and she wanted Tony on Broadway. I'm very talented, and
she was. You know. She did a ton of voiceover work,
which I think she still does some of the commercials
and that kind of stuff. She was the voice of
Pacific Telesis. It is one of those things. She was
(27:22):
one of those Pine Salt ladies, you know, was one
of those if you look back, you go, oh, I
remember her. Yeah, she's a Pine sal lady, And yeah,
it's one of those things. I met her at a
time in my life where I had dated enough where
I knew whatever I was doing was not working okay,
you know, and so I decided to do it differently,
consciously with her, and I decided to just be friends
(27:44):
and get to know somebody because I just had no
skills in the relationship department. And see, I just didn't
know what I was doing, and I had very low
self esteem with that I was a very shy growing
up when came to girls. But having someone who basically
was a friend, you know, really made that And I
tell you when we had problems later on. We eventually divorced,
(28:06):
But I'm not talking on a turn. She had some
issues with depression, and I think a lot of it
was related to our son was diagnosed with autism. He
had Asperger's and I think she took it very personally.
She had a lot of postpartum things and it was
a very deep emotional thing for her, and it's hard
(28:26):
as a partner sometimes hard to penetrate someone else's thing.
It's a deep you know. So when she got on
some medication, you know, we really couldn't work on our
marriage at that point because it just wasn't fair somebody
just going through that. But because this is just from
my point of view, of course, I think we had
done so much work in the friend category at the
(28:48):
beginning of our relationship. I was there for her as
a friend first of all. You know, some of course
someone you love and you care about. But like I
threw that out of my mind the problems that we
were having during that time and focused on the fact
that this is someone in your life that you care
deeply about, yeah, and you have to be there to
support them and that kind of stuff. And it was
(29:08):
really good, you know. It was one of those I
value that. That's how our relationships started. And even now
we still talk, you know, because we have two kids
of course, yep. And I just saw her sister and
her husband, my daughter's doing a show a regional theater
right now, and we were all hugging everything. Oh, it's
so good to see and I was like, I felt
so lucky that her family is still my family in
(29:30):
my mind and would be all that love and bond
is still there. And I know it's because of the
way that it started. There was that deep friendship, respect
for that seeing the other person as a person, you know,
it was such a big lesson in relationships for me
at the time.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, I love that, and it's so what you said
just really resonated. I a few years ago had a
bit of a nervous breakdown and began working on my
mental health. I struggled from severe anxiety and for this time,
when it was really rough, everything stopped and my family
got real small, and this was all that mattered, right,
(30:07):
getting me better, and I was able to put like
work aside and all the other things stopped. And it
was in a way, I mean, it was very difficult,
but it was in a way very nice to have
this one focus as a family. And then, of course,
as I started working on my mental health and getting better,
(30:28):
everything else comes right back right, every problem you had
and every reality comes back. But for that time, you
really know who is there for you in those moments,
who will drop everything to focus on the one thing
that matters the most in that moment, and everything else
can wait. What kind of parents were you? What kind
(30:52):
of dad were you when they were young? What kind
of dad are you?
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Now, that's a great question. I know my wife was
more of the I wouldn't say disciplinarian, because we both
were that in certain ways, but maybe we traded roles
or that type of thing. But I was affirmed. But
I was a fun dad too, you know. I always
(31:17):
like to bring excitement and you know, pass on the
joy of things to the kids and stuff. We all
laughed a lot, you know, that sort of thing. But
it was the one of the funnest roles was being
the heavy when I had to, you know, it was
fun so oh my god, because when kids are little,
you know, this is see they're so hilarious, yes, you know,
(31:38):
like and the thing is, this is why it so
irks me when I see parents that don't discipline their children,
you know, because I'm like, this is the time when
you can do it when they're small. You're not. If
you don't do it now, good luck later, because you know,
you're just gonna release this monster into the world, you know.
But uh so, like the one thing, like, you know,
(31:58):
you can't really spanker kids type of thing, but in public,
like I would pinch them. Sometimes they didn't and I
look them in the eye because nobody can see you pinching.
They're like oh, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, we're not
gonna do that anywhere, no, you know, you know. But
my kids had a good sense of what's right and
what's wrong. So if they did something wrong that was
really bad, my wife would send them to me in
the den and that's in there, and they come in.
(32:19):
I'll say everything it's I mean, it's so adorable, yah,
you know, and I would just say, okay, tell me
what happened, you know, Oh, John, did m were you
right or were you wrong. What we I was wrong? Okay,
all right, well what do you need? What do you
need to do? You know, tell them I'm sorry, okay,
(32:41):
all right. You know we did talk about what's the
right thing to do, what's the wrong thing. I always
tried to use language properly with my kids, Like we
would go to church, my wife saying in the in
the choir at Saint Charles Borromeo, Paul Solomonovich is this
great choir director. They sang for the Pope and all
kinds of it was legendary choir, and she she has
beautiful she's saying in that choir. If we were in church,
(33:04):
I would never tell the kids to be quiet in church, okay,
never said that. I would say show respect.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Because I wanted them to learn the distinction and behavior.
You know, quiet you're not really doing anything. But if
you're showing respect, that's active, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Yeah, being quiet is more passive, but showing respect they
have to actively do that, so and.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Be quiet sounds like a punishment, which it does. And
be respectful as not.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
And they're more in control of being respectful.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
You know. Also, if they know the distinction. They know
that quiet to me has a time limit to it,
but respect doesn't.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah, So just having distinctions with them and using language
carefully and that type of thing. I was always aware
of the language that I use with the kids, And
when they got a little older, we would have great
conversations stuff like that. And I remember having one with
my daughter and she goes, oh, Dad, I wish you
could my kids. And I said, what do you think
I'm doing now? She goes, oh, you know, like so
(34:08):
we used to have that type of stuff. But I
really enjoyed the conversations we'd have. We'd have philosophical conversations,
fun conversations, things like that. So we and they're very
close to their mom in that way too, you know. Yeah,
we all have that type of type of relationship, which
is great. Although my son talks to her way more.
I have to get things out of him, like she'll
call me. Said to John, tell you he's tying, and said, no,
(34:29):
he never talks to me. He tells you everything, you know,
So they have like this secret relationship. I don't know where.
She gets to know.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Everything as we do we do with our boys.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
We do.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
She gets to know things months before I even know
that's the things. Yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So then in twenty fifteen, tell me if I'm wrong,
you have to move for work? You moved to New
York right for the night they show? What was that
like on your family?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
That was tough because we were going through a breakup
at that time, So those things are happening at the
same time. We have been in marriage counseling for almost
eight or nine years. For a long time. No, we
worked on it for a long time. Yeah, it had
reached its its end, I guess you could say, but
it was unfortunate timing. So it's a bit of a strain.
But you know, real tough of me because I'm missing
(35:17):
my family and all that stuff. And then your second guess,
am I doing the right thing? Blah blah blah. So
when I was doing the Night the show, I was
going through all that, especially in the first year, it
was very, very difficult and feeling very alone there in
New York too, you.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Know, And was this your big like, did you feel
the weight of this show, the pressure of this show,
your name's on it? You know, was that daunting to
you or had you already done so much that you
were just like, I'm ready.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Yeah. I used to joke with people, I said, is
success gonna give you a big head? I'm like, I'm
fifty two. Success had its chance when I was younger.
You know, Sorry, success, You're a little too late, you know, like, sorry,
I'm going through a divorce this. You know, I got
success your way, But you hear so far in back
of the line, you know. In fact, some of it
(36:06):
I kind of resented because I loved being successful and anonymous.
It was great, you know, but losing anonymity is not fun,
you know, And and it was a little too much attention.
Like I don't I'm not a performer for the attention.
I'm a performer for the expression. So it's even when
I did stand up, you know, I love doing it,
but after the show I wouldn't hang around, you know,
(36:29):
the audience or that type of thing. So I was
always shy because I was shy growing up and stuff.
But I love performing, but I do it for the
expression of it. I love figuring out the joke and
then seeing if it works yeah yeah, and then if
it works, hey I did it, you know. But some
people do it for the attention. They need the laughs
to validate them. For me, I want the laughs to
validate the joke, you know, not to validate me. So
(36:50):
my friends and family there to validate me, you know,
and all that stuff. So luckily I got there, or unluckily.
So when the nightly show like I'm on billboards, some
taxicabs are going by. It was way too much, I see.
I'll be honest with you, it was. I was a
good God, no wonder people turn into monsters who nobody
should have this much attention. That's what I was thinking
(37:10):
at the time. You know, some of it was flattering,
but honestly, it was too much. I just I always
felt it was too much. Anytime I see a poster
in my big head on it, I'm like, that head
is huge. Nobody needs their big head on a thing
like this. I'm like, So I was kind of like
even when my show went away, I was sad that
it went away, but I wasn't really. It was kind
of a relief.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
There was some upside.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Yeah, there was a bit that was that was too
much for me as a person, not as a performer,
but as a person.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I get that.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I've heard you talk.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
About work and you know, how in some ways you
don't feel like you've ever worked, because you know you've
gotten to do so much of what you've loved. But
where in the universe of your life, where do you
put work? With family, you know, all the things? Where's
work for you? For some people it's really like the
central part of their life, right, where is it for you?
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Well?
Speaker 4 (38:00):
For me, you're right, because I don't consider it work
because I divorced that concept years ago. I wrote an
essay on LinkedIn years ago about deciding to give that
up when I was selling bookstore to or in college
and I went into many people's homes and just saw
people felt trapped in things, and I decided to choose
(38:20):
a path, you know, that would kind of bring me fulfillment.
And I saw what I was doing for a living
is just kind of walking down this path, and that
success was where I started, not where I ended, and
showbiz was just different examples of that success as opposed
to a road to success, you know. So I've always
viewed work as the kind of a means to have
(38:44):
expression in that sort of thing. So it's never been
a burden on me. You know, it's a burden in
other ways. You know the physicality of it all, having
the righting things like that. But I'm very lucky in
the fact that, you know, the thing that I do
is my expression, you know, and so and I'm driven
in that way more so than like I'm not competitive
(39:04):
with other people. I'm competitive with myself, you know. So
I want to be, you know, the best in that way.
But I don't have any demons associated with it that
other than my procrastination demons like I have like so
many different levels of procrastination. It's crazy, you know, Like
I have ways to procrastinate my procrastinating, you know, true,
(39:25):
because because they're categories like they're the worst is productive
procrastination because you're actually getting things done, but it's really procrastinating,
you know. So well, I got to clean my office, No,
you have to write that scriptularry.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
It's productive procrastination, right right, exactly.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
So.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
But here's the thing. So when I've talked to I've
done a lot of electroniccologists and that type of stuff.
One of my talk to kids, I never encourage them
to follow their dreams as a job or to have
to do for their job, even what is their passion.
I said, you don't have to do that, because sometimes
your passion can't make you any money. You know, you
have to make a living. Yeah, So sometimes choose something
that you're just good at, buying something that you're good at.
(40:07):
You don't have to be passionate about it. But something
that you're good at you could be productive at and
it can make money for you. And then keep your
passion as your hobby. Yeah, because that's expression. That's the
thing that's that. Look for that. Look for hobby, family
friends for your happiness quotion, and look for work for
your productivity. If happiness comes out of that bonus round right, right,
(40:28):
But don't look for work for happy you know, because
you're you're gonna be very disappointed in that. You know.
So I've never luckily, that's never been my happy place.
It's my fun place, but my happy place. If you
told me, strip away everything, what are you left with? Father?
That's it. One word, it's the only word that really
matters to me, is father.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
You know, yeah, same, I feel the same.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
All of it could go away, you know what I mean?
You know completely, that's the that's the identity. Not writer,
not comedian enough this you know. Yeah, really it's a
thing that brings. It's the thing where my happiness really
is in that.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yes, No, I completely agree and get that.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
When when you first had kids, though, did you feel
becoming a father threatened your identity as a comedian a writer.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Up, It wasn't even related to it and didn't do.
It was just its own thing. I call kids a
blessed inconvenience is my name for CHICU. That's what they are.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
You're very inconvenient.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Yeah, it's like thank you God, you know, thank you?
All right, Okay, freedom, yes exactly, But the cost of
the benefit of that loss of freedom is happiness, everything.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
It's everything.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
It's everything exactly. So no, I never connected those you know.
In fact, if anything, I was worried that work would
get in the way of that. And in fact, I
remember looking at pictures of my wife with the kids,
like on some day and I'm like, where was imes?
Like you read work, ass you missed all that? Sorry
for the language here, but I'm like, how do I
miss those days? I miss so many days? I see,
like when my kids were little, it's when I was
(42:10):
working the most hours. Yeah, because I was at the
most productive time of my life during that period, you know,
And that's you. But you know there's all those trade
offs in your life.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, and there's no right answer.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I mean I constantly doing that in my mind too,
the guilt of life.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I'm working my ass off right now.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
But it's for him, it's you know, and for me,
and that makes me a better mom being.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
You know, it's these circular conversations like co.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Come, you're never hears it. I'm working for your Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
It's true. It's tough. Okay, I want to do a
sort of a lightning round. I think you might have
already said this, but ok who's the funniest person you know?
Speaker 4 (42:54):
The funniest person I know personally? Yeah, the funniest person
I know personally. Unfortunately I lost a couple years ago
as my brother Mark. Okay, Mark was so funny, and
Mark could make himself look like people. I mean when
we were kids, he could do his face like Milton Burrel.
He just goes, you know, it's just like it just transformed,
like he could do anybody. But Mark was so deeply funny,
(43:16):
and anybody that knew him thought the same thing.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
So, my little Burrow, Who's the funniest person that I
would know?
Speaker 4 (43:23):
There's several people in that category, and there's different ways
in which they are funny. I've been so fortunate because
I've worked with some really funny people. Eddie Murphy let
me tell you, Oh my god. I mean as a performer,
Eddie's very quiet personally, but as a performer, I mean,
you just cannot stop laughing. He's just so just so
(43:46):
raw funny. Bernie Mack was really really funny, and Living
Color was the funniest show I worked on because the
writers were hilarious and the performers. The writers are arguably
funnier than the performers sometimes, right. We have one writer
named Less fires Thing. Oh god god, he was so funny.
And we used to do this thing I say, where
(44:06):
we would be working till all hours of the night,
like three or four in the morning, so by one
or two in the morning we do skits for each other.
We know, got so fun Oh man, We perform for
each other and the darkest stuff ever that you you
could not ever if you knew the stuff we were doing,
we would have been arrested immediately just for the subject matter.
I mean so dark. I think you would have appreciated,
(44:27):
because I know, I know your mind is very dark.
I would No, I've actually serious. You would have enjoyed it.
I believe nothing, nothing was sacred, everything you could make
jokes about.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I love that. I love dangerous comedy. I love Ricky Turvas.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I love people who you know, really push the envelope
but are smart and funny.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
You hosted the White House Correspondents Dinner. I was there.
This is a quiz.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
The first White House Correspondence.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Dinner was a in eighteen eighty eight, b in nineteen
twenty one, or see nineteen fifty four.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
I'm going to say nineteen twenty one.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
You're right.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
You are correcked, ding ding Ding. What's your favorite movie?
Speaker 4 (45:11):
See, it's a there's a competition there, well, competition if
I'm forced to choose one. See, it's hard for me
not to have Marx brothers in there, just because they're
so influential growing up. Like Animal Crackers is not a
great movie, but it's still one of my favorite. For you, Yeah,
(45:31):
for me, and Buster Keaton's up there too. The Graduate
is a movie that I can watch time and time again.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Perfect movie.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Yeah, there's a lot on there for this. I just
saw Cooley High again when I was a kid, that
movie meant so much to me. Favorite band, the Beatles.
Me too, big Beatle fan. I'm talking to Bill mar
about this. Actually, Oh he loves the Beatles. Oh yeah,
I know. And I got the Beatles later though, because
I like a lot of different kinds of music by
(46:00):
I'm a multi genre, yes person, Yes, sometimes it's moved related.
But I had slept on the Beatles growing up, you know,
you know, I kind of knew who they were, blah
blah blah. But when John Lennon died, I remember my
brother got some eight track or something or Cas said
he had in his car the Beatles live at the
Hollywood bowlm and he was playing it and I was
listening to the audience. I'm like, good lord, I'm like Jesus,
(46:21):
like I had forgotten the phenomena that was the Beatles
because I was really too young to appreciate that. But
just hearing the people scream, I thought, let me could,
let me look into these So I started. I did
the discography. I started with their first album, and I
went in order, you know, and I'm so glad that
(46:42):
I did. I fell in love with them as a
group too. There was a special Malcolm MacDowell did called
the Complete Beatles. It's still one of the best. Yes,
you know he did at the time, and oh, I
just completely I went down that rabbit hole and just
drank all the kool aid. You know, it was all
in on the Beatles and just from then on, that's
that's that's my group.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
It always amazed me that they were a band for
five years. Five years, that's it. Five years and they
made the most important music of history. I mean, I
just yeah, I can't get over how talented they were.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Finally, this question is very important to me culturally. When
is iced coffee season?
Speaker 4 (47:23):
See, for me, it's never ice coffee season. Never. Well,
why why do I want to make my coffee cold?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
You know, because you don't want to sip it.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You want to inject it into your veins. You want
it confee.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Coffee knows its job. Coffee knows its job. You know.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Well, that's it's the wrong answer. The right answer is
year round, year round. But you learn from a person by.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Asking you, like, I don't like food trying to chick me,
that's something else. Okay, So coffee ice coffee is trying
to chick me. That it's iced tea. But you're not coffee.
You are not. You know you're not, so stop it.
It's couscous trying to pretend it's right. Not because because
you're you're not Rice. Stop trying to act like it.
You know, Rice is rice. That's why we have it,
(48:05):
That's why it's there. That's why they had to come
to the term impossible burger, because you know, you're acknowledging
the fact that there's no way that's a burger. So
at least you acknowledge it. Yeah, at least you acknowledge
that this is impossible. Because I agree with you. I
don't know what this is, but you're right, it is impossible.
But I don't like food that's trying to trick me,
So I believe. I believe ice coffee at its core,
and it will admit this is engage in a deceptive campaign.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Well on, behalf of ice coffee.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
I am sorry you feel your way, but sorry ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
We love, we love ice coffee.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Clarry Onemore, this was.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Such a treat. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
It was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Next week, on Off the Cop I talked to two
of my favorite politicos, but not about politics.
Speaker 6 (48:45):
You were on the team because they drafted him first,
and you owe the traveling trailing sibling. So I had
my houch ego rocked pretty hard at age twelve.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
It's Congressman Eric Swollwell and former Congressman Adam Kinsinger.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
You care and freak yourself out in the cockpit.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
You really could, because you're like.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I'm freaked out right now just hearing you talk about it.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Recent Choice Network. I'm your Hostess Cupp
editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are meet Ssie Cupp, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If
you like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever
you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes
every Wednesday.
Welcome to Off the Coup.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
It's Christmas Eve, and I've been thinking a lot about
all of our Off the Cup episodes. I wanted to
share one that aired in twenty twenty four. I know
we've got a lot of new listeners this year. I'm
so grateful. So you might have missed this, but because
of the awful, tragic death of Rob Reiner, I've been
(00:29):
thinking about this particular episode a lot. It's a conversation
with my friend Larry Wilmore, and in it we talked
a lot about Rob Reiner and one of my favorite
of his movies, The American President. We talked a lot
about his dad, Carl Reiner, and one of Rob's best friends,
(00:49):
Al Brooks.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
We had a really.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Good conversation about a lot of things, but it just
so happened the Reiner's figured prominently, and I'm thinking a
lot about Rob and his movies. I know a lot
of other people have been too. I saw that our
friend Stephen Webber just posted that he watched stand By
Me for the first time, and I've gone back to rewatch.
(01:16):
You know some favorites like when Harry met Sally and
The Princess Bride, and a few good men. I mean,
Rob Briner had so many, so many great movies. It's
just kind of comforting to go back and listen to
this conversation with someone who knew him. So I really
liked it. I hope you like it too. I thought
(01:36):
a good sort of entry into the holiday season. And
then don't forget on New Year's Eve. We also have
a very.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Special off the Cup.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
It's a compilation of.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Our favorite answers to the time honored question when is
it ice coffee season? You don't want him ass that.
It's really fun. It's super entertaining to hear the multither.
So check that out too, and uh, listen, I'll see
you in twenty twenty six. Let's let's hope for a
better year than twenty twenty five. Okay, now go enjoy
(02:10):
your families.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Oh is success gonna give you a big head? I'm like,
I'm fifty two. Success had his chance when I was younger.
You know, Sorry, Success, you're a little too late, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
So you know, I meet a lot of people in
this business, including people you never expect to. I've done
TV with everyone from RuPaul to Newt Gingrich, from Zach
Gallifanakis to David Milliband. It's it's a weird career. And
I know a lot of smart people. I know a
(02:44):
lot of funny people. I know some kind people. I
don't know many who are all three. But I was
lucky enough to work with my next guest several times,
I think, but most notably for me when I was
a guest on his own talk show and I had
just had my son, Jack and it was one of
the first return TV appearances for me, and I was feeling,
(03:06):
you know, a little vulnerable, a little insecure about my body,
and this person just could not have been nicer, putting
me at ease, making me feel like I could just
get back in the saddle.
Speaker 1 (03:19):
I'll never forget that, because he didn't have to be.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You might know him as the one time senior Black
correspondent on The Daily Show. He was host of the
Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore, That'll Give It Away, creator
of The Bernie Mac Show, co creator of Insecure on HBO.
I Love that show, host of the Black on the
Air podcast, and so so so much more.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
It's Larry Willmore welcome, Hey it say.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
It's such a nice intro. That's so nice.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
I don't know if you remember that, but I remember that, Si.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I was a fan of yours for a long time.
I admire you because you were a conservative in those
liberal spaces, you know. Yeah, and you never shied down,
you know, but you were always so just quick and
smart and funny. You know, you had a light approach.
You never liked put people down. So I always I
(04:09):
admired you from afar way before that. You were on
my show and I was I was so excited when
you were going to do the show because I was
a big fan. So that's a big memory.
Speaker 1 (04:18):
Oh well, that's really nice.
Speaker 2 (04:19):
I feel like you had to say that because I
just said all those nice things about it.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, sure, sure, Well it's mutual.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
I just I think I think the world of view
and I was a fan as well.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
It feels like everything.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Has changed so much since that time in twenty fifteen,
Like everything's changed, media, politics, doesn't it?
Speaker 4 (04:40):
Oh thousand percent? You know. It's funny. The American President
was on TV the other day, you know, the Aaron
Sarkin thing from the nineties. Oh, I love that, and
I think I haven't seen it since it came out. Actually,
it wasn't one of those it wasn't a repeated viewing
thing for me, and nothing is a movie. It was fine,
but oh my god, the time and this is fiction,
(05:01):
of course, yeah, but at the time it kind of
mirrored what was about to happen with the Monica Lewinsky things. Scanna,
but this is more chaste. It's just a bachelor president
with a girlfriend.
Speaker 5 (05:10):
If I were on your staff, I would tell you
that the absolute worst thing you can do coming into
an election year is to open yourself up to character attacks.
And the quickest way to do that is to prance
around like the playboy of the Western world.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
But the things we considered scandalous back then for politics,
you can't even I mean, Trump in one sentence blows
that out of the water, you know, I mean, it's crazy.
The world has changed so much in that short amount
of time, you know.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
You know, it's funny you brought that up because I
should get erin on the podcast, because I consulted for
his show, The Newsroom and got to know him then.
And then I guest lecture a class called Politics and
Movies at Cornell once a year, and I always show
the American President and I always have aarin give me
(05:58):
a little tidbit to tell that class, like, give me
some behind the scenes, and it's so funny.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
He always leads with apologies.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
I was young, yeah, and I'm like, Aaron, No, it's
such a good movie.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
It's very capra, it's very you know, Collyanna.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
But it's a great movie.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
And he's like embarrassed by it because it was so
naive a bit and and Rosie and you know, everyone
was ultimately a.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
Good person, you know, Yeah, mister Smith is already in Washington.
Was that that is exactly And it's kind of a
precursor to the West Wing too, you know.
Speaker 1 (06:35):
It was, and that helped.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
But you know, he said, I just wanted to write
a rom com in a weird place, like what would
be the weirdest place I could set a rom com?
And so he thought, well, I'll do it in the
White House. But anyway, that's that's off topic. I'm just
glad you brought that.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Up, because when you think of romantic places, you think
of the way the White House.
Speaker 1 (06:56):
The White House.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
We don't get too politic on the show because this
is supposed to be a brick from all of that anxiety,
but do you think things media politics right we'll ever
get back to normal.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
Absolutely not. I think things never reset. They just go
to a new place in a different way that we
could never predict it, and that becomes the norm, you know.
But I don't think there's ever been a point in
history where we can look back and think there was
a reset, you know. Yeah, I don't. I can't remember any.
But it doesn't mean necessarily that it'll be a bad place,
(07:31):
because many times I think young people reset against whatever
the culture before, or a couple of cultures before, if
they go too far to the left. The younger generation
kind of resets right, you know, and that it goes
too far right, they kind of reset left, it seems like.
But they do it in different ways, you know, which
is what keeps making things contemporary and that sort of thing.
(07:53):
But yeah, this call for things to go back, it's
it's never going to happen. I don't know why people
make those calls.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
You know, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
I think part of me at least wishes.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I don't know if you feel this way, but there
felt to me like a heyday of media, and in
particular political media.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Yeah, and that.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
Involved the Daily Show, but it also just it was
a it was more fun. Yeah, and you know, the
media was booming and we're in a decline right now.
Speaker 3 (08:20):
That's just a fact.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
Yeah, yeah, it's true, you know, and it's funny if
you you know, I like, you know, I've been kind
of a history buff lately going through different periods. I
like to put myself into the contemporarious, contemporaneous, you know,
moments and that sort of thing. And I was looking
at how horrible the eighteen sixties and seventies were like
in New York City and how oh, man, you talk
(08:41):
about how politics being nasty, we can't hold a candle
to what was going on. Man, oh, the civility. I mean,
it was terrible, you know. And media. What was media
then were newspapers and cartoons, you know, yeah, right, and
some of the cartoons single handedly kind of like how
the Daily Show did to a certain extent, Saturday Night Live,
(09:01):
you know, how they've lampooned people, has become the kind
of way in which we interact with politics and that
sort of thing. It'll be interesting to see what takes
the place of the Daily Show, because I don't know
if it has the same influence that it had in
that period. You were talking about, or if Saturday Night
Live continues to be that place where you know, we
can look to for what's reflecting where we are, who's
(09:25):
making comments, you know, where can we connect and that
kind of thing, you know, because they've had such an
amazing long run of doing that. Oh totally, it's crazy.
Speaker 3 (09:33):
What happened to Funnier Die. Wasn't Funnier Die going to
be something like that?
Speaker 4 (09:39):
I think so? But I, you know what, that's a
good question. I think what Funnier Dye has its opponent
is the viral video, and that's a very formidable opponent. Yeah,
you know so, I think it's hard to manufacture viral videos.
It's just difficult. Good luck. You know, all the companies
you know es see, you know, I work in Tulliban
(09:59):
from creating shows and stuff. There have been different periods
where different companies like Verizon and that sort of thing
have tried to do these startups of making content for
your phone. People have tried it at different times, and
it always fails because they're competing against viral videos. Which
TikTok is smart because it's that you can just make
your vil video on our platform. We're not going to
(10:20):
try to make them.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
You know, I remember that because I develop as well.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
And I remember being in a meeting years ago and
Quibi was going to be the.
Speaker 4 (10:29):
New Quibbi right exactly, it was.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Going to be the thing, and they wanted you to
make like eight minute content for kids walking in between
classes on college campuses.
Speaker 3 (10:39):
And I was like, remember how to create this.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Way exactly exactly where? And the actual content that they're
interested in is someone just simply opening a box and
telling you what's in it. That's the content they're interested in.
So all these millions of dollars of research into what
show and it's highly produced at all this stuff eight minutes, no, no, no, no, sorry, asshole.
I just want to see somebody opening a box and
(11:03):
just tell me what's in it. That's the content on right.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I learned for this upcoming generation because my nine year old,
I mean it loves those videos watching other kids ohen
toys or games.
Speaker 4 (11:16):
I know, it's amazing. Could you imagine like seeing Harry
Truman back in the day, like opening effected wat? I
got this a bound business a little later, but before that,
you know, it's Christmas Day.
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I want to talk about your career and how you
became so successful and agile and diversified in everything you've done.
Speaker 1 (12:01):
But take me back before you grew up.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
You grew up in Pomonas On, California, and you had
lots of siblings.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Yeah, there were six of us total. I was third
from the top.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
A common refrain I hear among comedians is like I
came from a big family, and so I had to
like being funny.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Was how I got attention?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Was that? No, not really, I just have a funny family,
but they don't know that they're funny. So my parents
are hilarious, but they just don't know it. And they're
so they were opposite. My parents divorced when I was
about nine or ten, but they're still ironically, they're still
together as they which is crazy, Like, like they're so
crazy they can't even stay away from each other even
with the divorce, you know, that's how crazy they are.
(12:41):
But like, my mom was always the extreme emotionally and
my dad was the complete opposite in a funny way.
So that was always their conflict. Like I always said,
like if I'm driving a car and I just switched things,
I'm like, Mom, what what you didn't use your blanker?
I said, you almost killed me right now, you know,
whereas a plane could crash in the house next door
(13:03):
and Desgin hmmm, I'm like, I'm like, Dad, that was
a plane crash a plane because man was not meant
to fly, you know, like he would have some philosophical
like thing like that. And my brother and I, who
we just found them so hilarious, like they were our entertainment,
you know, most of the time. And so that's that's
(13:25):
where it comes from. Really, my brother and I observing
the world around us, and we went to Catholic schools,
so we used to make fun of our nuns and
all that stuff, and the teachers and our neighbors who
we make fun of. So we had all these characters
in our world that we just found as entertainment. So
that's where my sense of humor comes from.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
That's really funny. I just watched the Albert Brooks documentary.
That was great, Oh my god, so good. I love him.
But you know that part where Rob Reiner is talking
about how.
Speaker 3 (13:53):
They were friends as kids.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, and how Carl Reiner, Rob's dad told Albert Brooks
a point when he was a teenager, like you're the
funniest person I've ever met.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Can you imagine?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, I can't imagine. In fact, I have chills right
now just even talking about it. What that must have
been like for Albert Brooks. But was there someone in
your life who told you, you know, you're really funny?
Speaker 4 (14:16):
Well it wasn't so much that, but I got an opportunity.
Let me just side comment this first. This is what
Trump does in his speeches. He side speeches is what
I call it speech and then side speech. I had
the great opportunity to spend time with Carl Reiner on
three different occasions, and it was it was one of
the joys I first met him. And then I'll go
back to your question, okay, because Carl Reiner was kind
(14:38):
of an inspiration to me.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
You know, you know my questions don't matter. Tell me
everything about Carl.
Speaker 4 (14:42):
Okay. So when I was a young comic, they had
the same called the Comedy Awards. It was something like that.
They were trying for a few years, and I think
Steve Martin was being I think Steve Martin was being honored,
I think, or maybe it was bel Brooks, one of
the two. It was probably Melbrooks. But there was this
table with Steve Martin, Rob Reiner, Carl Reiner, Mel mel
Brooks are all at this table and this young comic
(15:05):
and I wanted to say hi to Carl Reiner, you know,
but there's all these stars there and I just kind
of sheepless. You go up and I go, sorry, mister Reiner,
my name is Larry I mccomack, I wanted to say.
And he was so nice, like, oh, hey, how you
doing like to be? He said, you know what, you're
a comic and I said, you know what, you're good looking.
Dick Van Dyke was good looking, and he did great,
you'll do fam. I'm like, okay, thanks Carl. So so
(15:29):
he like gave you this cop of bit and but
here are Steve Martin, all these other people who I love.
But I zero dine on Carl Reiner, not even knowing
at the time that I would. He was the model
for the career I was going to have somebody who
was a showrunner. He was also a performer, he was
a director, He was out there the rack and took
kind of he did everything, you know. He was he
was the hyphen it before anybody who was, you know.
(15:50):
And then later he was on The Bernie mac Show, yes,
where I got him and I got to see different
phases of them. So we went out to lunch and
he's Carl Reiner, the legend at lunch, you know, telling stories,
you know, and he's where do you go to lunch? Oh? God,
who knows? It wasn't anywhere fancy? It was just was it?
Speaker 5 (16:07):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Yeah, like Studio City. It was no fancy. I want
to It was great because we're sitting at his feet,
you know, listening to these stories and all this stuff,
and he's called writer, the Legend, the rack and tour.
Then we get on set and now I'm the showrunner
and now he's the insecure actor, you know, and you
see him completely change, you know. Is that okay? Is
that right? And the whole, this whole thing that was
(16:29):
just there is just gun and I'm like, hey, it's great.
And I'm his boss now. So we have a different
relationship and we're interacting and all that stuff. And then
later they're doing the remake of The Dick Van Dyke
Show and he invited me to the set and I
go there and there's oh, you know, Dick and Dyke's
there and Mary Tyler Moore, you know, people from the originals,
some of the writers who I was fans of, like
(16:49):
Persky and dan If I'm talking to these guys now,
he's called Rener the showrunner. Yeah, okay, completely different. All
those relationships that Dick and Mary had back in eighteen
sixty one came back. You could see. You could even
see Mary's insecurity a little bit. You know, Dick there
is the start. You could see their relationship, but they're
beholden to Carl. I mean, this is this is years later,
(17:12):
all those relationships right in place. He's quick witted, he's
on it. You could see his brain working the way.
You know. I don't even know how old he was seventies, eighties,
but he was on it. I was like, wow, I
just got to see three phases of this guy.
Speaker 1 (17:24):
That's incredible.
Speaker 4 (17:25):
And then the final one. I did it. He did
my podcast a couple of years before he passed away,
and I was in his home and we spent an
hour talking, just shooting the shit, and it was I see,
it was. That's why Carl Reiner legacy. I got to
spend so much time with him. But he's my he's
my show biz inspiration, somebody who did it the long term.
But what he really loves. He loves comedy, and so
(17:46):
do I, you know, and we realized that there's different
ways to express it. Sometimes it's a joke, and that's
when I did stand up. Sometimes it's a sketch, and
he just show shows. I didn't live in color, you know,
you expressed it in that way. He did Dick Van
Dykes show, I did Bernie mackshow. You know, you can.
Sometimes you need a longer for them, you know. Sometimes
I did an essay, I did it in Nightly Showing,
(18:06):
a whole different form where it's political commentary, but I'm
still looking for the humor and that sort of thing.
So I've always been I've done the different things because
my expression is comedy. But I realized you can put
it in different forms and get it out there, you know.
So when I was doing stand ups, sometimes i'd be
frustrated because I'm like, that's not really joke, but I
like it. It's funny. I go, well, what is it? Oh,
(18:26):
maybe that's a film idea, you know, right, So that's
kind of my road.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
What an awesome story.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
I'm so glad I brought up the Albert Brooks documentary.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
I'm so glad because that was an incredible story.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
One of your first TV roles was on a show
that was really really important to me.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Larry, that's hilarious.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
You know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 4 (18:47):
Oh, it has to be take all.
Speaker 3 (18:52):
You take the good, you take the bad. You take
a booth in there, you have the tacks of.
Speaker 2 (18:56):
Life's Tell me everything about Touty and Blair and Show
and Natalie and missus Garrett, tell me everything.
Speaker 4 (19:02):
What are you want about. I'm a young actor at
the time, wanting to break into show biz. I was
a theater major. I was a very serious actor at
the time, but I was also doing stand up but
I took very seriously. I used to always I go
to auditions and I'd changed the lines, not knowing that
might be offensive, but I would think it's something funnier.
So but anyhow, I did this theater reading. They were
the Olympics were coming in nineteen eighty four to la
(19:24):
and they had a year earlier they had these readings.
Even maybe it might have been even two years earlier.
It might have been two years earlier where they were
going to put on some theater for the Olympics. There
was something like that, and they had these special shows
on a friend of mine to ask if I would
do a part in it, and I ended up getting
a lot of laughs in it. And there were a
lot of people in the audience like Danny Simon, Neil
Simon's brother, people who came up to me and they
(19:45):
were like, oh, you're really funny. I'm like, oh, thank you,
you know. But there was a casting person in there
from I think Embassy Television at the time, and they
later brought me in to read for a pilot called
Aka Pablo, and I read for it. I didn't get it,
but they to me a lot and brought the same
people brought me back to read for the Facts of Life.
So the first part I read for the Facts of
Life was for two D's boyfriend, and he was this
(20:07):
illiterate like football player, like because they always had those
it's a special facts of life, you know, they would
have those. I remember those special stories. And so he
was the illiterate football player. He's ashamed of beig not
being able to read. It was that type of story
of life. So I read for it. Everything said, Larry,
you know, you were great. We really loved reading, but
we just don't believe that you're a literate.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
What a compliment, I know.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
And I'm like, but I am, trust me, I could
be stupid, guys, trust me.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
They're like, no, you can't.
Speaker 4 (20:37):
And then they brought me back to play the part
of a cop. They just gave me the role because
they just liked me. Yeah, and uh, Officer Ziyakis, I
think was the name exactly what just the graffiti saying it.
Speaker 5 (20:49):
Says, uh, yeah, I can't.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
Say it, missus Garrett. I've been a police officer for
three years, and before that I was a kid. I've
heard just about everything.
Speaker 3 (20:59):
It was recorded, right.
Speaker 4 (21:00):
Yeah. I played a couple of episodes and it was
so surreal because it was shot on the Universal Lot,
and I used to sneak on that lot as a
you know, dreaming of being you know, part of it.
And I remember sneaking into the Alfred Hitchcock Theater and
I'm watching them edit films. I'd be in the book,
you know, scared that I'm out. Yeah, my friend and
I we would go into the dining room. We dined
(21:22):
and dashed a couple of dames. That's so great, this
is the life. I really was the kid who dreamed
of being on there, and so they'll actually be on
a show. I'll never forget. I had a dressing room.
It was like in a trailer outside and I saw
the tram go by that I used to be on,
and I want to kind of wave and do the moment.
Speaker 3 (21:39):
How old were you?
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I was in my early twenties, twenty one, twenty two
something like that. And I'll never forget. Tony Danza came
by and they all knew who he was, and he
was like, Yeah, I'm doing this new show. We just
did the pilot over there. Yeah, and that was Who's
the Boss That turned out to be you know, of course,
and it was so close. They were doing the Jefferson's
right down the home. It was such a children thing.
(22:01):
But the girls on the show were really nice, really
really nice. Yeah, and Charlotte Ray played Miss Garrett. I
was already a fan of hers, such a pro she
was so nice. But it was fun.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
Could you tell?
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Because Kim Fields sort of had a similar trajectory.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
She ended up.
Speaker 3 (22:15):
Writing, she ended up show running, she ended up at
movies like she.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Does a lot more, yeah than you know that sitcom?
Could you tell at the time that Kim Fields was
going to be not just a star of a sitcom,
but like that, she was a real smart writer, producer,
et cetera.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Well, I don't know if I could tell that, but
her mom, Chip Fields, was I think a manager at
the time. So Kim's got that in her of there's
more than just what you're doing. Yeah, you know, so
it doesn't surprise me. She was one of the most
likable ones on that cast. I think the audience loved
Kim Fields. You know, she was so too.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
I mean even the name right, like skates, I mean,
all of it.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Love.
Speaker 4 (22:56):
I would see her years later and I just played
a small part and she always remember but she was
always so nice and lovely. Yeah, couldn't. I was like, man,
she's so nice and she kind of has that reputation.
It's funny, you know, we always say the stories about
people being this and that, but I tell you that
cast was just great, just really nice people. It wasn't
like one of those nasty situation type things. Yes, it's fun.
(23:18):
That was That's my break.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
You also wrote for Fresh Prince of bel Air, which
was also very important to me as.
Speaker 4 (23:25):
As a child. I only write shows that important to you.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
Well, obviously, clearly, what was Will Smith like then.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
Okay, Will Smith another great guy. He was very approachable.
He wasn't standoffish. I was there the last season, so
I wasn't there in some of the early seasons. But
they were very tight group.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I mean the last season. He was a big star.
Speaker 4 (23:46):
He well, he hadn't quite broken out as a movie
star yet. Yeah, he was about to.
Speaker 3 (23:51):
You know, he was like the biggest thing on TV.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
He was, he was, he was pretty big, you know.
But it's funny that there is that difference when you
go up that next next step, like Michael J. Fox,
who I got to me years ago, you know, before
he was a big star, but family ties made him
a TV star, but it was back to the future
that really made him a whole different category, you know, totally.
And the same with Will with Men in Black, it
(24:14):
just put him in a just different category than fresh Prince.
But fresh Prince for us, you know, it was all
that and everything, but really cool. I still talked to
Will this day. He used to call me up over
the years and I'd come in and help them pilots
punch up that kind of stuff. Yeah. But we did
a special called a mend a docu saries on Netflix
about the Fourteenth Amendment that Will hosted and I produced
(24:35):
and I appeared on. It was great working with him,
and so that was a nice full circle moment.
Speaker 1 (24:39):
What did you think of the slat.
Speaker 4 (24:43):
It was very I thought it was very surreal.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (24:46):
To me, it seemed like Will had an out of
body experience. It seemed like, I know, there's no way
if he had to do it again, he'd do the
same thing. That's one of those things. I'm sure he'd say.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
No, like, that was not the Will Smith.
Speaker 4 (24:57):
You knew, absolutely not. Yeah, you know, so I don't
know what was going on personally or whatever. I have
no idea, but it was so out of character. And
he's very aware. Will knows he's very aware of what
Hollywood is, how meaningful it is. He's very aware of
the history, the legacies, protecting your legacy, like he Tom Cruise,
(25:18):
those type of people, they always seem to protect their
legacies so so much. You could tell the people that
do that, right, those big starts. So yes, why would
Will Smith do that? It seems so out of character.
It had to have been some out of body experience
where he just left himself for a second and forgot
about that. Because somebody of that stature just doesn't make sense, you.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Know, it really didn't.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I mean from a pr point of view, or a
really any point of view, it really didn't make sense.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
There's no point of view it makes sense. And Chris
Rock's a comedian. You know, he's a comedian. You know
he's making jokes. Yeah, you know he's going to make
jokes that are going to be off color, that type
of things. But that's why he's Chris Rock. That's why
we love him. So yeah, you know, and if you
have a real beef with him, you have it afterwards.
You know, you don't have it like that.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
No, no, no, no, no, can Can I get personal with you?
Speaker 4 (26:15):
Yeah? Absolutely?
Speaker 2 (26:17):
But you want to know, girl, how did you meet
your ex wife?
Speaker 4 (26:22):
I met my ex wife through a blind date set
up by a dear friend of mine who's still a differend.
And we went out briefly and then we didn't date,
and then I called her out a year later, and
then we went out like one and then I called
her a year later again. It was like a start
(26:46):
and stop type of thing. Okay, yeah, and then we
I remember we ended up just talking on the phone
every day and just realized just how much we just
had in common and liked each other, and we just
got to do each other and that's pretty much how
it happen.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
She was in the business as well.
Speaker 4 (27:01):
Yeah, Yeah, she was an actress. She did a lot
of stage work. She was from Hawaii. Her name is Leilani,
and she wanted Tony on Broadway. I'm very talented, and
she was. You know. She did a ton of voiceover work,
which I think she still does some of the commercials
and that kind of stuff. She was the voice of
Pacific Telesis. It is one of those things. She was
(27:22):
one of those Pine Salt ladies, you know, was one
of those if you look back, you go, oh, I
remember her. Yeah, she's a Pine sal lady, And yeah,
it's one of those things. I met her at a
time in my life where I had dated enough where
I knew whatever I was doing was not working okay,
you know, and so I decided to do it differently,
consciously with her, and I decided to just be friends
(27:44):
and get to know somebody because I just had no
skills in the relationship department. And see, I just didn't
know what I was doing, and I had very low
self esteem with that I was a very shy growing
up when came to girls. But having someone who basically
was a friend, you know, really made that And I
tell you when we had problems later on. We eventually divorced,
(28:06):
But I'm not talking on a turn. She had some
issues with depression, and I think a lot of it
was related to our son was diagnosed with autism. He
had Asperger's and I think she took it very personally.
She had a lot of postpartum things and it was
a very deep emotional thing for her, and it's hard
(28:26):
as a partner sometimes hard to penetrate someone else's thing.
It's a deep you know. So when she got on
some medication, you know, we really couldn't work on our
marriage at that point because it just wasn't fair somebody
just going through that. But because this is just from
my point of view, of course, I think we had
done so much work in the friend category at the
(28:48):
beginning of our relationship. I was there for her as
a friend first of all. You know, some of course
someone you love and you care about. But like I
threw that out of my mind the problems that we
were having during that time and focused on the fact
that this is someone in your life that you care
deeply about, yeah, and you have to be there to
support them and that kind of stuff. And it was
(29:08):
really good, you know. It was one of those I
value that. That's how our relationships started. And even now
we still talk, you know, because we have two kids
of course, yep. And I just saw her sister and
her husband, my daughter's doing a show a regional theater
right now, and we were all hugging everything. Oh, it's
so good to see and I was like, I felt
so lucky that her family is still my family in
(29:30):
my mind and would be all that love and bond
is still there. And I know it's because of the
way that it started. There was that deep friendship, respect
for that seeing the other person as a person, you know,
it was such a big lesson in relationships for me
at the time.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Well, I love that, and it's so what you said
just really resonated. I a few years ago had a
bit of a nervous breakdown and began working on my
mental health. I struggled from severe anxiety and for this time,
when it was really rough, everything stopped and my family
got real small, and this was all that mattered, right,
(30:07):
getting me better, and I was able to put like
work aside and all the other things stopped. And it
was in a way, I mean, it was very difficult,
but it was in a way very nice to have
this one focus as a family. And then, of course,
as I started working on my mental health and getting better,
(30:28):
everything else comes right back right, every problem you had
and every reality comes back. But for that time, you
really know who is there for you in those moments,
who will drop everything to focus on the one thing
that matters the most in that moment, and everything else
can wait. What kind of parents were you? What kind
(30:52):
of dad were you when they were young? What kind
of dad are you?
Speaker 4 (30:54):
Now, that's a great question. I know my wife was
more of the I wouldn't say disciplinarian, because we both
were that in certain ways, but maybe we traded roles
or that type of thing. But I was affirmed. But
I was a fun dad too, you know. I always
(31:17):
like to bring excitement and you know, pass on the
joy of things to the kids and stuff. We all
laughed a lot, you know, that sort of thing. But
it was the one of the funnest roles was being
the heavy when I had to, you know, it was
fun so oh my god, because when kids are little,
you know, this is see they're so hilarious, yes, you know,
(31:38):
like and the thing is, this is why it so
irks me when I see parents that don't discipline their children,
you know, because I'm like, this is the time when
you can do it when they're small. You're not. If
you don't do it now, good luck later, because you know,
you're just gonna release this monster into the world, you know.
But uh so, like the one thing, like, you know,
(31:58):
you can't really spanker kids type of thing, but in public,
like I would pinch them. Sometimes they didn't and I
look them in the eye because nobody can see you pinching.
They're like oh, and I'm like, yeah, yeah, we're not
gonna do that anywhere, no, you know, you know. But
my kids had a good sense of what's right and
what's wrong. So if they did something wrong that was
really bad, my wife would send them to me in
the den and that's in there, and they come in.
(32:19):
I'll say everything it's I mean, it's so adorable, yah,
you know, and I would just say, okay, tell me
what happened, you know, Oh, John, did m were you
right or were you wrong. What we I was wrong? Okay,
all right, well what do you need? What do you
need to do? You know, tell them I'm sorry, okay,
(32:41):
all right. You know we did talk about what's the
right thing to do, what's the wrong thing. I always
tried to use language properly with my kids, Like we
would go to church, my wife saying in the in
the choir at Saint Charles Borromeo, Paul Solomonovich is this
great choir director. They sang for the Pope and all
kinds of it was legendary choir, and she she has
beautiful she's saying in that choir. If we were in church,
(33:04):
I would never tell the kids to be quiet in church, okay,
never said that. I would say show respect.
Speaker 1 (33:11):
Oh yeah, okay.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
Because I wanted them to learn the distinction and behavior.
You know, quiet you're not really doing anything. But if
you're showing respect, that's active, you know.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Yeah, that's so good.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
Yeah, being quiet is more passive, but showing respect they
have to actively do that, so and.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Be quiet sounds like a punishment, which it does. And
be respectful as not.
Speaker 4 (33:31):
And they're more in control of being respectful.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:34):
You know. Also, if they know the distinction. They know
that quiet to me has a time limit to it,
but respect doesn't.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah, So just having distinctions with them and using language
carefully and that type of thing. I was always aware
of the language that I use with the kids, And
when they got a little older, we would have great
conversations stuff like that. And I remember having one with
my daughter and she goes, oh, Dad, I wish you
could my kids. And I said, what do you think
I'm doing now? She goes, oh, you know, like so
(34:08):
we used to have that type of stuff. But I
really enjoyed the conversations we'd have. We'd have philosophical conversations,
fun conversations, things like that. So we and they're very
close to their mom in that way too, you know. Yeah,
we all have that type of type of relationship, which
is great. Although my son talks to her way more.
I have to get things out of him, like she'll
call me. Said to John, tell you he's tying, and said, no,
(34:29):
he never talks to me. He tells you everything, you know,
So they have like this secret relationship. I don't know where.
She gets to know.
Speaker 1 (34:35):
Everything as we do we do with our boys.
Speaker 3 (34:37):
We do.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
She gets to know things months before I even know
that's the things. Yeah, so there you go.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
So then in twenty fifteen, tell me if I'm wrong,
you have to move for work? You moved to New
York right for the night they show? What was that
like on your family?
Speaker 4 (34:56):
That was tough because we were going through a breakup
at that time, So those things are happening at the
same time. We have been in marriage counseling for almost
eight or nine years. For a long time. No, we
worked on it for a long time. Yeah, it had
reached its its end, I guess you could say, but
it was unfortunate timing. So it's a bit of a strain.
But you know, real tough of me because I'm missing
(35:17):
my family and all that stuff. And then your second guess,
am I doing the right thing? Blah blah blah. So
when I was doing the Night the show, I was
going through all that, especially in the first year, it
was very, very difficult and feeling very alone there in
New York too, you.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Know, And was this your big like, did you feel
the weight of this show, the pressure of this show,
your name's on it? You know, was that daunting to
you or had you already done so much that you
were just like, I'm ready.
Speaker 4 (35:43):
Yeah. I used to joke with people, I said, is
success gonna give you a big head? I'm like, I'm
fifty two. Success had its chance when I was younger.
You know, Sorry, success, You're a little too late, you know, like, sorry,
I'm going through a divorce this. You know, I got
success your way, But you hear so far in back
of the line, you know. In fact, some of it
(36:06):
I kind of resented because I loved being successful and anonymous.
It was great, you know, but losing anonymity is not fun,
you know, And and it was a little too much attention.
Like I don't I'm not a performer for the attention.
I'm a performer for the expression. So it's even when
I did stand up, you know, I love doing it,
but after the show I wouldn't hang around, you know,
(36:29):
the audience or that type of thing. So I was
always shy because I was shy growing up and stuff.
But I love performing, but I do it for the
expression of it. I love figuring out the joke and
then seeing if it works yeah yeah, and then if
it works, hey I did it, you know. But some
people do it for the attention. They need the laughs
to validate them. For me, I want the laughs to
validate the joke, you know, not to validate me. So
(36:50):
my friends and family there to validate me, you know,
and all that stuff. So luckily I got there, or unluckily.
So when the nightly show like I'm on billboards, some
taxicabs are going by. It was way too much, I see.
I'll be honest with you, it was. I was a
good God, no wonder people turn into monsters who nobody
should have this much attention. That's what I was thinking
(37:10):
at the time. You know, some of it was flattering,
but honestly, it was too much. I just I always
felt it was too much. Anytime I see a poster
in my big head on it, I'm like, that head
is huge. Nobody needs their big head on a thing
like this. I'm like, So I was kind of like
even when my show went away, I was sad that
it went away, but I wasn't really. It was kind
of a relief.
Speaker 3 (37:31):
There was some upside.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
Yeah, there was a bit that was that was too
much for me as a person, not as a performer,
but as a person.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
I get that.
Speaker 4 (37:38):
Yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I've heard you talk.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
About work and you know, how in some ways you
don't feel like you've ever worked, because you know you've
gotten to do so much of what you've loved. But
where in the universe of your life, where do you
put work? With family, you know, all the things? Where's
work for you? For some people it's really like the
central part of their life, right, where is it for you?
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Well?
Speaker 4 (38:00):
For me, you're right, because I don't consider it work
because I divorced that concept years ago. I wrote an
essay on LinkedIn years ago about deciding to give that
up when I was selling bookstore to or in college
and I went into many people's homes and just saw
people felt trapped in things, and I decided to choose
(38:20):
a path, you know, that would kind of bring me fulfillment.
And I saw what I was doing for a living
is just kind of walking down this path, and that
success was where I started, not where I ended, and
showbiz was just different examples of that success as opposed
to a road to success, you know. So I've always
viewed work as the kind of a means to have
(38:44):
expression in that sort of thing. So it's never been
a burden on me. You know, it's a burden in
other ways. You know the physicality of it all, having
the righting things like that. But I'm very lucky in
the fact that, you know, the thing that I do
is my expression, you know, and so and I'm driven
in that way more so than like I'm not competitive
(39:04):
with other people. I'm competitive with myself, you know. So
I want to be, you know, the best in that way.
But I don't have any demons associated with it that
other than my procrastination demons like I have like so
many different levels of procrastination. It's crazy, you know, Like
I have ways to procrastinate my procrastinating, you know, true,
(39:25):
because because they're categories like they're the worst is productive
procrastination because you're actually getting things done, but it's really procrastinating,
you know. So well, I got to clean my office, No,
you have to write that scriptularry.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
It's productive procrastination, right right, exactly.
Speaker 5 (39:43):
So.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
But here's the thing. So when I've talked to I've
done a lot of electroniccologists and that type of stuff.
One of my talk to kids, I never encourage them
to follow their dreams as a job or to have
to do for their job, even what is their passion.
I said, you don't have to do that, because sometimes
your passion can't make you any money. You know, you
have to make a living. Yeah, So sometimes choose something
that you're just good at, buying something that you're good at.
(40:07):
You don't have to be passionate about it. But something
that you're good at you could be productive at and
it can make money for you. And then keep your
passion as your hobby. Yeah, because that's expression. That's the
thing that's that. Look for that. Look for hobby, family
friends for your happiness quotion, and look for work for
your productivity. If happiness comes out of that bonus round right, right,
(40:28):
But don't look for work for happy you know, because
you're you're gonna be very disappointed in that. You know.
So I've never luckily, that's never been my happy place.
It's my fun place, but my happy place. If you
told me, strip away everything, what are you left with? Father?
That's it. One word, it's the only word that really
matters to me, is father.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
You know, yeah, same, I feel the same.
Speaker 4 (40:50):
All of it could go away, you know what I mean?
You know completely, that's the that's the identity. Not writer,
not comedian enough this you know. Yeah, really it's a
thing that brings. It's the thing where my happiness really
is in that.
Speaker 1 (41:04):
Yes, No, I completely agree and get that.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
When when you first had kids, though, did you feel
becoming a father threatened your identity as a comedian a writer.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Up, It wasn't even related to it and didn't do.
It was just its own thing. I call kids a
blessed inconvenience is my name for CHICU. That's what they are.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
You're very inconvenient.
Speaker 4 (41:31):
Yeah, it's like thank you God, you know, thank you?
All right, Okay, freedom, yes exactly, But the cost of
the benefit of that loss of freedom is happiness, everything.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
It's everything.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
It's everything exactly. So no, I never connected those you know.
In fact, if anything, I was worried that work would
get in the way of that. And in fact, I
remember looking at pictures of my wife with the kids,
like on some day and I'm like, where was imes?
Like you read work, ass you missed all that? Sorry
for the language here, but I'm like, how do I
miss those days? I miss so many days? I see,
like when my kids were little, it's when I was
(42:10):
working the most hours. Yeah, because I was at the
most productive time of my life during that period, you know,
And that's you. But you know there's all those trade
offs in your life.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yeah, and there's no right answer.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
I mean I constantly doing that in my mind too,
the guilt of life.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
I'm working my ass off right now.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
But it's for him, it's you know, and for me,
and that makes me a better mom being.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
You know, it's these circular conversations like co.
Speaker 4 (42:33):
Come, you're never hears it. I'm working for your Yeah.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
It's true. It's tough. Okay, I want to do a
sort of a lightning round. I think you might have
already said this, but ok who's the funniest person you know?
Speaker 4 (42:54):
The funniest person I know personally? Yeah, the funniest person
I know personally. Unfortunately I lost a couple years ago
as my brother Mark. Okay, Mark was so funny, and
Mark could make himself look like people. I mean when
we were kids, he could do his face like Milton Burrel.
He just goes, you know, it's just like it just transformed,
like he could do anybody. But Mark was so deeply funny,
(43:16):
and anybody that knew him thought the same thing.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
So, my little Burrow, Who's the funniest person that I
would know?
Speaker 4 (43:23):
There's several people in that category, and there's different ways
in which they are funny. I've been so fortunate because
I've worked with some really funny people. Eddie Murphy let
me tell you, Oh my god. I mean as a performer,
Eddie's very quiet personally, but as a performer, I mean,
you just cannot stop laughing. He's just so just so
(43:46):
raw funny. Bernie Mack was really really funny, and Living
Color was the funniest show I worked on because the
writers were hilarious and the performers. The writers are arguably
funnier than the performers sometimes, right. We have one writer
named Less fires Thing. Oh god god, he was so funny.
And we used to do this thing I say, where
(44:06):
we would be working till all hours of the night,
like three or four in the morning, so by one
or two in the morning we do skits for each other.
We know, got so fun Oh man, We perform for
each other and the darkest stuff ever that you you
could not ever if you knew the stuff we were doing,
we would have been arrested immediately just for the subject matter.
I mean so dark. I think you would have appreciated,
(44:27):
because I know, I know your mind is very dark.
I would No, I've actually serious. You would have enjoyed it.
I believe nothing, nothing was sacred, everything you could make
jokes about.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I love that. I love dangerous comedy. I love Ricky Turvas.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
I love people who you know, really push the envelope
but are smart and funny.
Speaker 4 (44:46):
Yeah, me too.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
You hosted the White House Correspondents Dinner. I was there.
This is a quiz.
Speaker 1 (44:53):
The first White House Correspondence.
Speaker 2 (44:55):
Dinner was a in eighteen eighty eight, b in nineteen
twenty one, or see nineteen fifty four.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
I'm going to say nineteen twenty one.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
You're right.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
You are correcked, ding ding Ding. What's your favorite movie?
Speaker 4 (45:11):
See, it's a there's a competition there, well, competition if
I'm forced to choose one. See, it's hard for me
not to have Marx brothers in there, just because they're
so influential growing up. Like Animal Crackers is not a
great movie, but it's still one of my favorite. For you, Yeah,
(45:31):
for me, and Buster Keaton's up there too. The Graduate
is a movie that I can watch time and time again.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Perfect movie.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Yeah, there's a lot on there for this. I just
saw Cooley High again when I was a kid, that
movie meant so much to me. Favorite band, the Beatles.
Me too, big Beatle fan. I'm talking to Bill mar
about this. Actually, Oh he loves the Beatles. Oh yeah,
I know. And I got the Beatles later though, because
I like a lot of different kinds of music by
(46:00):
I'm a multi genre, yes person, Yes, sometimes it's moved related.
But I had slept on the Beatles growing up, you know,
you know, I kind of knew who they were, blah
blah blah. But when John Lennon died, I remember my
brother got some eight track or something or Cas said
he had in his car the Beatles live at the
Hollywood bowlm and he was playing it and I was
listening to the audience. I'm like, good lord, I'm like Jesus,
(46:21):
like I had forgotten the phenomena that was the Beatles
because I was really too young to appreciate that. But
just hearing the people scream, I thought, let me could,
let me look into these So I started. I did
the discography. I started with their first album, and I
went in order, you know, and I'm so glad that
(46:42):
I did. I fell in love with them as a
group too. There was a special Malcolm MacDowell did called
the Complete Beatles. It's still one of the best. Yes,
you know he did at the time, and oh, I
just completely I went down that rabbit hole and just
drank all the kool aid. You know, it was all
in on the Beatles and just from then on, that's
that's that's my group.
Speaker 2 (47:01):
It always amazed me that they were a band for
five years. Five years, that's it. Five years and they
made the most important music of history. I mean, I
just yeah, I can't get over how talented they were.
Speaker 4 (47:12):
It's crazy.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
Finally, this question is very important to me culturally. When
is iced coffee season?
Speaker 4 (47:23):
See, for me, it's never ice coffee season. Never. Well,
why why do I want to make my coffee cold?
Speaker 1 (47:29):
You know, because you don't want to sip it.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
You want to inject it into your veins. You want
it confee.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Coffee knows its job. Coffee knows its job. You know.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Well, that's it's the wrong answer. The right answer is
year round, year round. But you learn from a person by.
Speaker 4 (47:44):
Asking you, like, I don't like food trying to chick me,
that's something else. Okay, So coffee ice coffee is trying
to chick me. That it's iced tea. But you're not coffee.
You are not. You know you're not, so stop it.
It's couscous trying to pretend it's right. Not because because
you're you're not Rice. Stop trying to act like it.
You know, Rice is rice. That's why we have it,
(48:05):
That's why it's there. That's why they had to come
to the term impossible burger, because you know, you're acknowledging
the fact that there's no way that's a burger. So
at least you acknowledge it. Yeah, at least you acknowledge
that this is impossible. Because I agree with you. I
don't know what this is, but you're right, it is impossible.
But I don't like food that's trying to trick me,
So I believe. I believe ice coffee at its core,
and it will admit this is engage in a deceptive campaign.
Speaker 1 (48:28):
Well on, behalf of ice coffee.
Speaker 2 (48:29):
I am sorry you feel your way, but sorry ice coffee.
Speaker 3 (48:32):
We love, we love ice coffee.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Clarry Onemore, this was.
Speaker 3 (48:35):
Such a treat. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4 (48:36):
It was my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (48:39):
Next week, on Off the Cop I talked to two
of my favorite politicos, but not about politics.
Speaker 6 (48:45):
You were on the team because they drafted him first,
and you owe the traveling trailing sibling. So I had
my houch ego rocked pretty hard at age twelve.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
It's Congressman Eric Swollwell and former Congressman Adam Kinsinger.
Speaker 4 (48:59):
You care and freak yourself out in the cockpit.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
You really could, because you're like.
Speaker 1 (49:02):
I'm freaked out right now just hearing you talk about it.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
Off the Cup is a production of iHeart Podcasts as
part of the Recent Choice Network. I'm your Hostess Cupp
editing and sound designed by Derek Clements. Our executive producers
are meet Ssie Cupp, Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. If
you like Off the Cup, please rate and review wherever
you get your podcasts, follow, or subscribe for new episodes
every Wednesday.
Host
S.E. Cupp
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