October 18, 2025 • 38 mins
Welcome to Talkin' Politics, the podcast within a podcast that gives you a weekly dose of S.E.'s piping' hot takes on the news of the week as well as interviews with political heavyweights. And this week, S.E. talks with Rahm Emanuel. Most recently, Rahm was the U.S. ambassador to Japan, but he has also served in Congress, as mayor (of Chicago), and, once upon a time, Chief of Staff for President Obama. And rumors are swirling he's eyeing the presidency. And you know S.E. likes to have some fun, so each political interview will wrap with the Talkin' Politics version of a lightning round that we're calling, the Exit Poll. And stay tuned for S.E.'s take those leaked texts from a young Republican group chat.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to Talk in Politics, the brand new pod within
a pod here at Off the Cut, where every week
I'll give you my piping hot political takes on the
news of the week, the latest scandal, election predicts, or
just making sense of the madness. And we won't always
do this, but I will bring in some political heavyweights
from time to time to give you that little extra,
(00:24):
some insights, some interesting perspective, maybe a thirty thousand foot
view of things from the inside. So today, for our
launch episode, I'm very excited to bring on a seasoned
pro most recently, he was our ambassador to Japan. Before that,
he was the mayor of Chicago. Before that, he was
Barack Obama's chief of staff, and before that he was
(00:47):
a congressman. So he's basically done all the things you
can do in government, and there are rumors swirling he
may run for president in twenty twenty eight, so he's
a great guest for our inaugural Talking Politics. Welcome Rom Emmanuel.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you for having me, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Really excited, And I have to say, David Axelrod is
the best friend a girl could have. I I love
him so much. But here's here's what happened. Rom so,
just so you know, I text acts, Hey, can you
connect me with someone in Ram's office. That's it. That's it.
And then you call and you're like, hey, Axe told
me to call you, and like say yes to whatever
(01:27):
whatever you're about to ask me to do. I'm like,
I'm so embarrassed. I wanted him to connect me with
like a handler, and you go, don't worry, I'm about
to pass you off to a hand.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Don't flatter yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Exactly exactly, don't don't worry I'm handing you off. But incredible.
I love him so much. He's such a great connector.
And I'm so glad that you said yes to this because.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I the inaugural.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Show, inaugural show, this is your our launch guest, and
I don't want to embarrass you, but I'm a big
fan this Republican, former Republican, still conservative, basically independent, never Trumper.
I'm a fan, and I think we need someone like you.
(02:20):
I I think we need your expertise, your experience. I'm
not anti establishment, like I like establishment. I like knowledge, experience, expertise,
you know how government works in all of the ways.
I think we need that, and especially now someone's gonna
have to come in and put our government back together
(02:41):
again because Trump is dismantling it. And the way you're
talking about politics right now as a Democrat, I think
is so so important and refreshing. So I'm a big fan.
But you know what I need, rom I need Democrats
to get their shit together. I need I need Democrats
(03:01):
to figure it out so that they can be in
a good position to beat off trump Ism now but
also beat Republicans in the midterms and then in twenty
twenty eight. Tell me they're they're in a better position
than I think they are.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Some are.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean, I'll give you and I'll just the
conclusion of that. But I didn't want to interrupt you. You
were on a roll, and I'm taking it to make
sure that members of my family get to hear that good.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I mean it. I mean it. I don't say.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Here's what I would say is anecdotal of why I
believe that Democratic voters are where you would like them
to land.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
What rule one I have about politics.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I used to say this to President Obama, try to
follow it when I was mayor, or said it to
President Clinton.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
When I was a senior advisor. Sound is not always fearing.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Sometimes it's just sound, and don't in a good pow
knows how to navigate between sound and fury, and sometimes
it is fury that sometimes just sound. So you have
five six people running in New Jersey governor primary. You
had the mayor of Newer, president of the Teachers Union,
the mayor of Jersey City, two members of Congress. I
(04:18):
forgot the six to one and over forty nine point
six percent of the vote goes to the two most
moderate conservative members, of which the nominee overwhelming the Mikey
Cheryl wins the primary. And it's an eight hundred plus
thousand turnout. So you had I wouldn't call it thirty
one flavors, but you had thirty one flavors. Yeah, and
(04:39):
you could pick and fifty percent of the vote goes
to the two moderates in Mikey. I mean, people maybe
on this show probably know the listening is she's a
blue dog, the most conservative.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You can get.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
So that's a as a kind of a matrix of winning.
And they obviously the mayor of Newer, if you thought
the base was really progressive and loud progressive should have won.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, I'll fast forward over.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
To the other side of the the primary. In the
Democratic primary for Jerry Connley's congressional seat and replacement eleven candidates,
the most moderate gets fifty nine percent of the vote
in an eleven person field. Now he happens to be
(05:28):
not a House of Delgate but the supervisor in the
largest county. But that's you know, that's how the ball bounces,
I would say to you. And that's two anecdotes post Trump.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Now, yeah, you can use Swazi, you can use Spamberger absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Now the other thing is, if you go through the
history of the party, when we lose, not when we
do in, but when we lose very big difference, we
become incredibly pragmatic.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Now I want to pause on that, come.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Back to that, because the demographics of the party are
not the same as they were when I drew that example.
I mean John Kerry versus Howard Dean all of a sudden,
and iowa of the voters go, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa
pragmatic Joe Biden versus Bernie Sanders South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Whoa pragmatic?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
You could argue also of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama
in their primaries. Now, the demographic makeup the Democratic primary
voter in all those cases is not the same today.
Now you've got this really great group called highly white,
college educated and highly confident in their own judgment, opposed
to black voters and other pragmatic voters who understand that
(06:38):
we don't have time for kind of esoteric efforts.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
We got to win and we got to be pragmatic.
So yeah, we're going to test my theory out.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
About these very sophisticated college quote unquote liberal progressives and
their pragmatism where they think everybody wants to be like
them and nobody wants to be like them, but they
but they project, so that will be so.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
But my judgment and in the end of the.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Day is when you look at Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale,
Michael Decoccus, Bill Clinton becomes our nominee in nineteen ninety
two seen in the primary, then there's a gap and
then as the most capable, skilled and so ideology, the
(07:21):
ideological metric is pragmatism.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I understand that that like the reaction to the last guy,
and the pendulum always swings, and I get that what
would then the reaction to Harris if we're if not Biden.
If we're just taking Harris, what would the reaction to
Harris be in twenty twenty eight?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
My in again, these are you're asking me to rejecked.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
My instincts is that the Democratic primary voter wants to
seal the book on twenty twenty four and never put
it up in the attic and never go there again.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, that's my instincts. One of the things that I
think is very, very important in where we are today,
and if we didn't have a choice in twenty twenty four,
in twenty twenty eight, you're gonna have the basket of Robbins.
I'm chocolate. Meant if I decided to do this perfect So.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think, and this is a bet, is it that
there's a whole part of resistance whatever Trump is, we're against. Yeah,
but that in twenty twenty six, if we win the House,
I think the zeitgeist will shift to not fighting Trump,
(08:51):
but to fighting for America. And that's a bet I'm making.
And I think one of the things that Democrats have
to realize in twenty twenty eight that I think they
will in twenty twenty seven, and he is twenty twenty
eight is a choice election not a referendum election. And
I get all the energy around because what Donald Trump
and my own who is doing here is really dangerous.
That said, and I've articulated, you know that the American
(09:14):
dream is unaffordable, it's inaccessible, It can't be the American dream.
And only my kids, your kids can get access to
the American people. They want a shot, and what they
got is the shaft here. They can't buy a home,
they can't say for their retirement and their health care
and their kids' education, and it's become you know, basically
(09:36):
the system is raped against your own success, and that
to me is the core.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Now.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I've also laid out stuff because about education that I
think is very very important, and I think we got
to talk to people. We always say, all you got
to talk to people their lives, I mean, and we
don't we talk to people. We talk to ourselves. We
don't talk to people where they live their lives. And
I kind of and I can say this first hand
knowing and stuff as I've talked about. Again, I'm in Japan,
(10:03):
but watching this is we're talking about and getting ourselves
wrapped around and axle about a single pronoun when thirty
five kids in the class can't tell you what a
pronoun is. We are debating taking Abraham Lincoln's name off
of school, and we don't worry about whether kids know
why Abraham Lincoln's an American giant. We literally are dealing
with bathroom access, and I dealt with that one in
(10:24):
twenty sixteen is a mayor.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But we lost the classroom excellence.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
And I think that I do think the public knows
that and knows in the first Democrat that articulates getting
ourselves both middle class economics, middle class values is and
when's the primary navigates that is poised to win in
twenty twenty eight because I think the country's going to
want to put this moment in time.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Also in a book.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Close it shut, yeah, put it in the attic under
a weight that you can never open up again.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
This is what I need Democrats to sound like the
things you're saying. Listen, Democrats would have won if they
talked like this in twenty twenty four instead of telling
voters they were wrong about how they felt about crime,
the economy, and immigration. You're wrong, those things are fine.
Look at our charts and figures and graphs.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Well, the one thing is like if people having been
through two presidentials, but there's an element of the party
and we're going to you know, I can spend as
much time, if not more energy on the where the
Republican Party and specifically the congressional wing has lost their
I mean they put their manhood in their integrity in.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
A lock box here totally.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
We'll come back to that in a segment. Here look
at success.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Bill Clinton is now as shorthand as this is sister
soldiers speak because Rockstar is talking about the killing of
a officer in the legitimacy.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And you know, people forget this.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
When Bill Clinton ran for president, the number one issue
in is advertising by plus and welfare as.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
We know it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Workfare second is a restoring work as a principle and
a value that we identify, which I.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Find weird for Democrats.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Social Security and Medicare is built on the premise that
you work, we should as Roosevelt builds the party around
work and now we're like, you get a free this,
you get it free that you don't have to do
anything to get that. Actually, the party's history is honoring
work as a value, not only and a principal. Second,
(12:33):
when Barack Obama runs for president. He deals not only
with pastor right his own pastor's very ugly comments. He
also deems to challenge something that Patrick Mornehan got screamed about,
but parenting in fatherhood. John Kennedy, if you want to
go back that far, goes to Texas to give his
speech that he will be a president who's Catholic, but
(12:56):
not a Catholic president takes direction from the poet. So
everybody had a clear a cultural matrix that underscored their
economic message.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And I don't understand how in.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Twenty twenty four where did it go? Yeah that well,
I know where to go on the value system. And
there's some people even talking about running now who had
pronouns on their handle and stuff like that. But look,
as a mayor twenty sixteen, dealt with bathroom acxis.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I never lost focused on graduation rates, reading scores, mass scores,
which is why Stanford said Chicago public school systems were
the best by ninety eight percent of all public school systems.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I was ambassador. We had people trans people to work there. Great,
you're paid by the taxpayers. Do your job. This was
not a game of identity politics.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
It was a game of actually fulfilling our mission as
the embassy for the United States of America, which is
I want to say this with two kids in the
Armed forces, if you're an American, you.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Have won the lottery life. And we need to start saying.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
That and start there is a lot to fix with America,
but this is the lottery of life, and we have
won the winning ticket. And it's an honor to be
an American, and it's honor to serve and improve the country.
And to me, the Party got in a cultural cul
de sac and never got outside of it, and they
talked to themselves and they didn't realize. You know, part
(14:24):
of campaigns is the other side was saying X, Well
they get a voice, you have to respond to it.
We don't want we think this whole cultural thing is
a loser.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
No, I'm ready to talk about it. I'm ready to.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Talk about putting more police on the beat and getting kids,
guns and gangs off the street. And I'm going to
tell you this, having visited children at hospitals at home,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Want to do this. Don't.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yes, data is coming down, but nobody walks around going
you know what, I feel twenty two safer this year
than I think. Right, Okay, you don't let your kid,
you don't sit up on the front porch, you're not safe.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
You don't let your kids.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Go after dark to go to a local ice cream
place in the summer, you are not safe. And it's
right logical, and we should embrace taking on that issue
and embrace taking on the fact that we are comfortable
talking about public safety, immigration, all the issues that make
(15:24):
up people's lives and homelessness.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And it's not that hard.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It feels hard, and I just watching it field. Well, yeah,
and I'm wondering, like, where's the democrat the democratic agenda,
Like do Democrats need a new new deal contract with America?
Like where's the thing that's going to bind progressives and
(15:48):
moderates all over the country around some common ground so
that they can run together as a party and not
against each other.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, well, the primary will be I actually think it's
going to be healthy.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Now, let me do one piece of history and I'll
come right to that.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
My answer to that question, let me interrupt myself, is
it's about the fact that the American dream is unaffordable,
it's inaccessible.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
As a Democrat, that's unacceptable to me, and it.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Comes to restoring our education as a goal because you
are living a period of time where you earn what
you learn. Now, we did something in Chicago that I'm
very proud of. For a couple of things, and at
least on high school one you get a B average.
Community college is free, but you earn it.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It was called the Chicago Stars Scholarship.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Number five.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Number two.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
This is something I think we should talk about nationally
and in Poe and not in Posed, but do kind
of a race to the top.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
To get your high school diploma, you must show a
letter of acceptance from a college, community college, branch of
the Armed forces, or vocational school. Every children, not the
emmanual children alone, will have a post high school plan.
So when you walk on graduation day, you know where
you're walking to.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, okay, And we don't have a person to waste
In the twenty first century, we're about to face off
with China and they're three times our size. We can't
afford somebody to not be as productive and successful as
they need to be in this battle. Number two, I
get to the American nam now here is my analysis.
(17:26):
We lose Carter Bondale to Caucus. We're spending a lot
of time progressive groups in Alibhat. But Bill clint Win's
nomination in Dale see the Democratic leaves is core to
his intellectual framework, so core. He picks an echo chamber
with al Gore, which had not been done usually you
balanced it was echo chamber about being new Democrats. Now
(17:52):
I'm a fan of Admyer, etc. And I'm as guilty
as everybody else of this President Obama wins the nomination
and wins the election post eight years of Bush. You
look at the coalition that makes it up. And around
that time is the zeitgeist that demographics are destiny and
(18:13):
Democrats just have to stand there and this sucker is
coming right towards us.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
We don't have to do any and we become intellectually flabby.
We don't think through not.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Just healthcare, which is a great thing, but what's next
and that period, and I do think there's four in
the last first twenty five years of the twenty first century.
There are four peak moments that have defined not only
our economics but our politics. We fall down on the
number one job of politics, which is, as Bill Clinton
(18:45):
used to always say, is the most undervalued thing in
politics is ideas and we become intellectually, we don't have
to do anything to look at the demographics.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Look at Hispanic voters.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Look at African America voters, look at women, look at
college educate, just got them. Just stand here and their
wave is coming to us. And and I and I
said in the beginning guiltiest charge. I repeated this so stupidity,
and it is. It's stupidity, and we are paying a price.
Now the benefit is I think we've acknowledged that, and
(19:16):
we are now thinking. Now there's a policy.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Group every five minutes opening up. But you know, what
do you do? We were talking about this earlier.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Why is rama manual getting a mortgage deduction for a
second home when other families can't get.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
A first home? The system is screwed.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And I have other words I'd like to use, but
I don't want you to get knocked off on the
podcast world.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
FCC can come after you.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
The whole system, the idea that literally a college education,
The reason people can't buy home they come out of
college is because they're down payment and their mortgage and
their mortgage payment are going to student loans.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Right, this is insane.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yet, and that's just college education.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
There's a whole host We are literally making that ten
percent of the children of America get access to the
American dream and the other ninety percent look at a
frosted window and try to look in not the American dream.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's turned into American nightmare.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
And they.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
They have every right to be.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
We And as I said in Iowa when I was
there about a month ago, I spent my full adult
life trying to undrig a system that I thought was rigged.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well, let me guess you, I'm not doing it anymore.
I'm for a rig system.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I'm for rigging it for you and against those guys,
which is my whole life.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
You know, whether it was taking on the NRA.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
On the assault weapon ban, first city to sue the
pharmaceutical industry over opiates, taking on the educational biocracy, taking
on the insurance companies that were on the ten million
kids who had no health care, taking out of the
tobacco industry to give free eye in dental care to
the kids of the sneach.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'm for a rig system. Just want to know who's
going to be rigged?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Four And I know it could because the system is
you know that great line paranoid people even have enemies.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
The system is rigged getting You're right, it's not a
conspiracy theory.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
This is not You're not gonna wake up. You're getting screwed.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah. Coming up after the break, stay tuned for my
exit poll with Ram Emmanuel and after that my hot
take for the week. So we end every talking politics
with three questions of varying degrees of seriousness. I'm calling
(21:38):
this the exit poll. The first question is what's your
favorite political movie?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
What is my favorite political movie?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Well, my favorite movie is Godfather too, Okay, I can
also claim that could be also my favorite political movie.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Sure, okay, yep, I'll stick with that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I like it. Who's someone on the other side of
the aisle one you know.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
I would say, is the documentary uh made? I think
it's called The Fogle War?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Oh great?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Yes, yeah, and that is if you say pure politics.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Oh it's so good.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, the Fog of War would be my favorite.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Okay, that's fantastic. Who's someone on the other side of
the aisle that you admire?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Mike Gallagher?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yep?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And the reason, well, we're friend, we meet, we don't
know each other, we deserve together. We meet and at
a dinner that when I'm ambassador, I'm in town and
I have the head of the Armed services were just
like five of us, six of us. And Mike, as
he told I, getting you know him, and I asked,
(22:50):
he says something about his kids, et cetera. And I said,
let me tell you what we did when I was
a congressman, chief staff and mayor, and how to make
sure kids grow up healthy and that our jobs don't approach.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And while I never wanted to.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
See what happened to Mike and his family, a lot
of these people say, Oh, I'm gonna quit so I
can spend more time with the family listen. But he
actually didn't have to, and he did. And I think
it revealed character that his children, his wife, his family
was more important than a guy who was on the
hockey stick up.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
In his career.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
And I say that I admire him because I think
it showed an earnestness of character and judgment that is
outside if you get out of foreign policy. We don't
agree a lot, but I agree with the character of
the human being. And I don't think he gets enough
recognition for you know, a lot of people, Oh, I'm
(23:47):
gonna go.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Spend more time in a family. Like your family doesn't
want to spend more time with you, so forget. But
they don't like you that you don't.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Even like yourself, so give me a break in this case.
In this case is the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And I think and I admire the strength attempt to
do it as well as a character.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Finally, last question, how do we save our democracy?
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Well, it gets to the first point. If my analysis
is right about the American dream, it's.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Not a coincidence.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
The moment the American dream really starts to become unaffordable
is exactly when our democracy becomes unstable.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And while I'm for voting rights to act on for
same day voting and etc.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
If people believe in the system, they will believe in
the efficacy as well as the effectiveness.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Now there is a lot. This is if I get
ever invited back.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I think there are four peak moments that have destroyed,
are not destroyed, have really set back our country, our democracy,
and our economy. A war built down on set of lies,
where we lost thousands of men of women, promise of
America and spend a trillion dollars on the deserts of Fallujah,
(25:07):
and nobody is held accountable. They're in universities and on boards.
Three years later, the financial meltdown built on lyyer loans,
People lose their home, the American dream, and those ungrateful
sobs get bailed out. And now we get bailed out.
They think they deserve a bonus.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Four years after. They're a little longer after that, China goes.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
From being a strategic competitor to strategic adversary at their choice,
and we hold on to the mythology that they still
want to be competitors.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Not adversaries.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
And we let Battle Creek battle Beijing on its own,
and we don't invest in America or Americans. And then
fourth and finally, and we continue to do that where
the elite get off and everybody else gets the downdraft.
And then COVID also about eight six years later, and
so maybe a little longer, and all of us kind
(26:05):
of self righteous people have the essential workers expose themselves
while we get to work from home or do whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think those four peaks, and I could be missing some.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
That's my analysis, but I think if you look at
the last twenty five years, it is twenty twenty five
from the beginning of the twenty first century. That is
the breakdown in both an agreement about the economic system
and its rewards and opportunities, and also the consensus that
(26:40):
we are all held accountable by.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
One rule book. And it's not true. Now you have
a bunch of people that lie to America knowingly.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Lose thousands of men and women built on a lie
on yellow cake from Niger, and not one of them
have ever had the character of decency turn around and say.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm sorry, Yeah, I messed up.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Yeah, and it's the trillion dollars that you know, you
might jump. My view on the Iraq War is that
the only one that won between US and the Iraqi
regime was China. They won, and so that to me
are the when you say restore our democracy, yeah, restore
the accessibility of the American dream.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You'll be amazed how confident people are in this country.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Listen, I could talk to you all day. I really
appreciate you being here for our first talk about question.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Since I make each of my kids read a book
with me, yeah, I just finished one with Zachariah. We
read eighteen sixty one, Jay Winnick's new book, and I
made Alana read, not made she read nineteen.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Forty four by Jaywin. What's your favorite political book?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Oh, yeah, you got movies kind of like down to
about thirty.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So what's your favorite book? Which is down to three thousand?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Mmmm. I don't want to sound like a total loser here.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
That's okay. It's just the two of us will edit this.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Out to pro deserf them Hyak, which one Hiak Road
deserved them? Huh, I'm a nerd, I'm a loser.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Okay, Gary Wills Gettysburg nice. I think that. I think
that is a great.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Great I think I need to come into this century
or even the last one.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You got to get there, man, And it sounded.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Like Detokville and Yak, and I need to come into
the modern era.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Oh, do it slowly, but you put it's like wind
share put it on.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Okay, easy, Yeah, go in slowly, don't don't die, don't
dive into the deep end without your water wings.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
From Emmanuel, thank you so much. This was great. I
appreciate you, Luck, I'm honored. I appreciate you, and I
appreciate David axel Rod for connecting us. Oh what a
great conversation. I really really love a lot of what
rom had to say, and I think if more Democrats
talked like him, they'd be in a much better position.
(29:16):
But great, first guest, so thrilled. We're not always going
to have guests on talking politics. This is going to
be your destination for my piping hot political takes, but
we will have guests, and I've got some. I've got
some coming up that are going to be great. But
let's get to today's hot take and my mini mono,
(29:39):
mini monologue.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Here.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
For this first mini mono, I want to talk about
a guy named Todd Aiken. If you don't remember Todd, congratulations,
But he was a congressman from Missouri from twenty one
to twenty thirteen. He was a Republican, and in twenty
twelve he ran to unseat Democratic Senator Claire mccaskell. It was,
(30:03):
as you know, twenty twelve an election year, and Mitt
Romney was running against Obama, so every other down ballot
race was really being scrutinized heavily. To Daiken did a
local interview with k tv I Saint Louis. He'd probably
done one hundred interviews with local news over the course
of his campaign, and he probably thought this one was
going to be like any other It wasn't. He was
(30:27):
asked about exceptions to abortion in the case of rape,
and heres how that went.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
If an abortion could be considered in a case of say,
tubal pregnancy or something like that, what about in the
case of.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Rape, should it be legal or not?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Well, you know, people always want to try and make
that as one of those things. So how do you
slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. It seems
to me, first of all, from what I understand from doctors,
that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female
body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something.
(31:02):
You know, I think there should be some punishment, but
the punishment ought to be in the rapist and not
attacking the child.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I gotta tell you, I've heard that clip probably one
hundred times because I covered that election. I just heard
it again, and like, my stomach is churning, as you
can imagine, a few things bothered people about that answer.
For one, the words legitimate rape. What does that mean
as opposed to an illegitimate rape? Then the female body
(31:33):
don't say that, but the female body has ways to
try to shut that whole thing down. What excuse me,
I beg your finest pardon, sir. If we're legitimately raped,
our body shuts it down so we can't get pregnant.
That is news to the female body. That is news
(31:54):
to us. And finally there should be some punishment. Yeah,
that didn't sound great to people either. The reaction to
this congressman, most people hadn't previously heard of, it was swift.
The condemnation was resounding, and importantly it came from his
fellow Republicans. Mitt Romney, the nominee, urged him to drop out.
(32:15):
Paul Ryan, his running mate, also called for him to
step down. Mitch McConnell said his apology was insufficient. Roy
Blunt and other Missouri Republicans like John Ashcroft, Kit Bond,
John Danforth, Jim Tallant, they all urged him to drop
out of this race. The National Republican Senatorial Committee then
sc withdrew millions of dollars from his race. Conservative groups
(32:41):
like American Crossroads pulled their advertising from his race. And
get this, Sean Hammity begged Aiken to drop out, saying,
sometimes an election is bigger than one person. Now, this
is all hard to imagine today, Republicans uniting against a
fellow Republican who'd behave badly and urging him to do
(33:02):
the right thing, to put country before party and party
before personal gain. To his credit, either because you wanted
to or he had to, Todd Aikeen issued a total
apology and cut an ad asking for forgiveness. Ultimately, it
wasn't enough. He lost badly, and he became an asterisk
(33:22):
in history books known for this moment, And some people
even suggest this moment tanked Romney's presidential bid because it
was like right before the RNC, like a week before
the RNC. It was all anyone was talking about. Now,
we can't imagine all this happening today because it isn't
happening today. Leaked texts from a young Republican group chap
(33:47):
in which horrendous comments were made racist, sexist, anti submit a, homophobic, xenophobic,
you name it. They checked every bigot box there is.
There was even one just saying I love him. They've
exposed an unseemly and gross comfort inside the party with
(34:08):
saying this stuff out loud among friends, where they obviously
thought what could go wrong? I'm a good company here
dropping the N word, the homophobic f slur saying I
love Hitler. This would all be well received. That is
such a tell that enough people on this chat thought
they were in good enough company saying things most people
(34:30):
wouldn't even think that. Most bigots wouldn't even whisper, let
alone share in a group text. But this isn't a
toaddagn situation. Very little backlash from inside the tent. Where
are the party elders to tell these guys, grown men
and women, by the way, not kids, that they acted
(34:52):
like fools and assholes, and to assure the nation that
they don't represent the GOP future or present look some have.
To their credit, Republican Governor of Vermont Phil Scott said
the head of his states why our chapter should resign.
New York Republican congress people Mike Waller and Elis Staphonick
(35:12):
also condemned the rhetoric. Again to their credit, Well, what
about GOP leadership speaker Mike Johnson was asked if he
was worried about extremist pro Hitler sentiment among the party's
young Republicans. He said no, He said yeah, he condemned
the rhetoric, but also dismissed it, saying he didn't know
who any of these people are. Does that matter? There's
(35:36):
been nothing from the president, a guy who keeps posting
videos of House Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries in a sombrero.
Spokespeople have insisted Trump doesn't know these guys, even though
there's a picture of him with two of them from
a rally last year. It's not surprising. Trump spent weeks
refusing to disavow KKK leader David Duke. In twenty sixteen,
(36:00):
he called neo Nazis some very fine people. He welcomes
white nationalists and insurrectionists into the party. He has lunch
with neo Nazi Nick Fuentes and anti semi Kanye West.
Trump hasn't weigh in, no surprise, but Vice President Jade
Vance has and it's disgusting. He says. The reality is
that kids do stupid things, especially young boys. Again, these
(36:22):
are thirty year olds, they're not young. They're not boys.
He said. They tell edgy, offensive jokes like that's what
kids do. And I don't really want to grow up
in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke
is caused to ruin their lives and at some point,
we're all going to have to say enough of this BS.
We're not going to allow the worst moment in a
twenty one year old group chat to ruin a kid's
(36:45):
life for the rest of time. That's just not okay.
So having these men, not kids, face consequences for their actions,
that's not okay. For the vice president, instead of saying
the e the easy obvious thing, which is that they
are assholes and they said inexcusable things that make Rehoblicans
(37:06):
look horrible and of course should lose their jobs in
the party, Vance goes out of his way to defend them.
That's how corrupted the party is. That's how diseased MAGA
is that the vice president feels comfortable defending this garbage,
which is easily rebuked. These aren't pople running for office.
(37:27):
You're not in danger of losing seats. Just say the thing.
They're losers, they're bigots, they shouldn't have positions in the party.
But no, Vance's knee jerk reaction is I need to
somehow defend this. Todd Akin is probably in a deer
blind somewhere in Missouri, shaking his head, wishing he lived
(37:47):
in this Republican timeline. I did all that groveling only
to lose my election, lose my job, get totally excommunicated
from the party, and become a punchline and cautionary tale.
If he'd said what you said today, would anyone have
even batted? And I I doubt it. Okay, that's today's
(38:09):
talking politics, folks. We'll see you back here next week,
and don't forget to tune in to our Off the
Cup interviews and our talk and coffee pod in a
pod too. Off the Cup is a production of iHeart
Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network. If you
want more, check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics
(38:31):
with Jamel Hill and Native Land Pod. For Off the Cup,
I am your host, Si Cup. Editing and sound design
by Derek Clements. Our executive producers are Me Si Cup,
Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you
get your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
Welcome to Talk in Politics, the brand new pod within
a pod here at Off the Cut, where every week
I'll give you my piping hot political takes on the
news of the week, the latest scandal, election predicts, or
just making sense of the madness. And we won't always
do this, but I will bring in some political heavyweights
from time to time to give you that little extra,
(00:24):
some insights, some interesting perspective, maybe a thirty thousand foot
view of things from the inside. So today, for our
launch episode, I'm very excited to bring on a seasoned
pro most recently, he was our ambassador to Japan. Before that,
he was the mayor of Chicago. Before that, he was
Barack Obama's chief of staff, and before that he was
(00:47):
a congressman. So he's basically done all the things you
can do in government, and there are rumors swirling he
may run for president in twenty twenty eight, so he's
a great guest for our inaugural Talking Politics. Welcome Rom Emmanuel.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Thank you for having me, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Really excited, And I have to say, David Axelrod is
the best friend a girl could have. I I love
him so much. But here's here's what happened. Rom so,
just so you know, I text acts, Hey, can you
connect me with someone in Ram's office. That's it. That's it.
And then you call and you're like, hey, Axe told
me to call you, and like say yes to whatever
(01:27):
whatever you're about to ask me to do. I'm like,
I'm so embarrassed. I wanted him to connect me with
like a handler, and you go, don't worry, I'm about
to pass you off to a hand.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Don't flatter yourself.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
Exactly exactly, don't don't worry I'm handing you off. But incredible.
I love him so much. He's such a great connector.
And I'm so glad that you said yes to this because.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
I the inaugural.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Show, inaugural show, this is your our launch guest, and
I don't want to embarrass you, but I'm a big
fan this Republican, former Republican, still conservative, basically independent, never Trumper.
I'm a fan, and I think we need someone like you.
(02:20):
I I think we need your expertise, your experience. I'm
not anti establishment, like I like establishment. I like knowledge, experience, expertise,
you know how government works in all of the ways.
I think we need that, and especially now someone's gonna
have to come in and put our government back together
(02:41):
again because Trump is dismantling it. And the way you're
talking about politics right now as a Democrat, I think
is so so important and refreshing. So I'm a big fan.
But you know what I need, rom I need Democrats
to get their shit together. I need I need Democrats
(03:01):
to figure it out so that they can be in
a good position to beat off trump Ism now but
also beat Republicans in the midterms and then in twenty
twenty eight. Tell me they're they're in a better position
than I think they are.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
Some are.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
Yeah, I mean, I'll give you and I'll just the
conclusion of that. But I didn't want to interrupt you. You
were on a roll, and I'm taking it to make
sure that members of my family get to hear that good.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I mean it. I mean it. I don't say.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Here's what I would say is anecdotal of why I
believe that Democratic voters are where you would like them
to land.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
What rule one I have about politics.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
I used to say this to President Obama, try to
follow it when I was mayor, or said it to
President Clinton.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
When I was a senior advisor. Sound is not always fearing.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Sometimes it's just sound, and don't in a good pow
knows how to navigate between sound and fury, and sometimes
it is fury that sometimes just sound. So you have
five six people running in New Jersey governor primary. You
had the mayor of Newer, president of the Teachers Union,
the mayor of Jersey City, two members of Congress. I
(04:18):
forgot the six to one and over forty nine point
six percent of the vote goes to the two most
moderate conservative members, of which the nominee overwhelming the Mikey
Cheryl wins the primary. And it's an eight hundred plus
thousand turnout. So you had I wouldn't call it thirty
one flavors, but you had thirty one flavors. Yeah, and
(04:39):
you could pick and fifty percent of the vote goes
to the two moderates in Mikey. I mean, people maybe
on this show probably know the listening is she's a
blue dog, the most conservative.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
You can get.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
So that's a as a kind of a matrix of winning.
And they obviously the mayor of Newer, if you thought
the base was really progressive and loud progressive should have won.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
Right.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, I'll fast forward over.
Speaker 4 (05:05):
To the other side of the the primary. In the
Democratic primary for Jerry Connley's congressional seat and replacement eleven candidates,
the most moderate gets fifty nine percent of the vote
in an eleven person field. Now he happens to be
(05:28):
not a House of Delgate but the supervisor in the
largest county. But that's you know, that's how the ball bounces,
I would say to you. And that's two anecdotes post Trump.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
Now, yeah, you can use Swazi, you can use Spamberger absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Now the other thing is, if you go through the
history of the party, when we lose, not when we
do in, but when we lose very big difference, we
become incredibly pragmatic.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Now I want to pause on that, come.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
Back to that, because the demographics of the party are
not the same as they were when I drew that example.
I mean John Kerry versus Howard Dean all of a sudden,
and iowa of the voters go, whoa, whoa, whoa whoa
pragmatic Joe Biden versus Bernie Sanders South Carolina.
Speaker 2 (06:13):
Whoa pragmatic?
Speaker 4 (06:15):
You could argue also of Bill Clinton and Barack Obama
in their primaries. Now, the demographic makeup the Democratic primary
voter in all those cases is not the same today.
Now you've got this really great group called highly white,
college educated and highly confident in their own judgment, opposed
to black voters and other pragmatic voters who understand that
(06:38):
we don't have time for kind of esoteric efforts.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
We got to win and we got to be pragmatic.
So yeah, we're going to test my theory out.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
About these very sophisticated college quote unquote liberal progressives and
their pragmatism where they think everybody wants to be like
them and nobody wants to be like them, but they
but they project, so that will be so.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
But my judgment and in the end of the.
Speaker 4 (07:00):
Day is when you look at Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale,
Michael Decoccus, Bill Clinton becomes our nominee in nineteen ninety
two seen in the primary, then there's a gap and
then as the most capable, skilled and so ideology, the
(07:21):
ideological metric is pragmatism.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
I understand that that like the reaction to the last guy,
and the pendulum always swings, and I get that what
would then the reaction to Harris if we're if not Biden.
If we're just taking Harris, what would the reaction to
Harris be in twenty twenty eight?
Speaker 2 (07:57):
My in again, these are you're asking me to rejecked.
Speaker 4 (08:01):
My instincts is that the Democratic primary voter wants to
seal the book on twenty twenty four and never put
it up in the attic and never go there again.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, that's my instincts. One of the things that I
think is very, very important in where we are today,
and if we didn't have a choice in twenty twenty four,
in twenty twenty eight, you're gonna have the basket of Robbins.
I'm chocolate. Meant if I decided to do this perfect So.
Speaker 4 (08:30):
I think, and this is a bet, is it that
there's a whole part of resistance whatever Trump is, we're against. Yeah,
but that in twenty twenty six, if we win the House,
I think the zeitgeist will shift to not fighting Trump,
(08:51):
but to fighting for America. And that's a bet I'm making.
And I think one of the things that Democrats have
to realize in twenty twenty eight that I think they
will in twenty twenty seven, and he is twenty twenty
eight is a choice election not a referendum election. And
I get all the energy around because what Donald Trump
and my own who is doing here is really dangerous.
That said, and I've articulated, you know that the American
(09:14):
dream is unaffordable, it's inaccessible, It can't be the American dream.
And only my kids, your kids can get access to
the American people. They want a shot, and what they
got is the shaft here. They can't buy a home,
they can't say for their retirement and their health care
and their kids' education, and it's become you know, basically
(09:36):
the system is raped against your own success, and that
to me is the core.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Now.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I've also laid out stuff because about education that I
think is very very important, and I think we got
to talk to people. We always say, all you got
to talk to people their lives, I mean, and we
don't we talk to people. We talk to ourselves. We
don't talk to people where they live their lives. And
I kind of and I can say this first hand
knowing and stuff as I've talked about. Again, I'm in Japan,
(10:03):
but watching this is we're talking about and getting ourselves
wrapped around and axle about a single pronoun when thirty
five kids in the class can't tell you what a
pronoun is. We are debating taking Abraham Lincoln's name off
of school, and we don't worry about whether kids know
why Abraham Lincoln's an American giant. We literally are dealing
with bathroom access, and I dealt with that one in
(10:24):
twenty sixteen is a mayor.
Speaker 2 (10:26):
But we lost the classroom excellence.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
And I think that I do think the public knows
that and knows in the first Democrat that articulates getting
ourselves both middle class economics, middle class values is and
when's the primary navigates that is poised to win in
twenty twenty eight because I think the country's going to
want to put this moment in time.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Also in a book.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
Close it shut, yeah, put it in the attic under
a weight that you can never open up again.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
This is what I need Democrats to sound like the
things you're saying. Listen, Democrats would have won if they
talked like this in twenty twenty four instead of telling
voters they were wrong about how they felt about crime,
the economy, and immigration. You're wrong, those things are fine.
Look at our charts and figures and graphs.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Well, the one thing is like if people having been
through two presidentials, but there's an element of the party
and we're going to you know, I can spend as
much time, if not more energy on the where the
Republican Party and specifically the congressional wing has lost their
I mean they put their manhood in their integrity in.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
A lock box here totally.
Speaker 2 (11:36):
We'll come back to that in a segment. Here look
at success.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Bill Clinton is now as shorthand as this is sister
soldiers speak because Rockstar is talking about the killing of
a officer in the legitimacy.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
And you know, people forget this.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
When Bill Clinton ran for president, the number one issue
in is advertising by plus and welfare as.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
We know it.
Speaker 4 (12:04):
Workfare second is a restoring work as a principle and
a value that we identify, which I.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Find weird for Democrats.
Speaker 4 (12:12):
Social Security and Medicare is built on the premise that
you work, we should as Roosevelt builds the party around
work and now we're like, you get a free this,
you get it free that you don't have to do
anything to get that. Actually, the party's history is honoring
work as a value, not only and a principal. Second,
(12:33):
when Barack Obama runs for president. He deals not only
with pastor right his own pastor's very ugly comments. He
also deems to challenge something that Patrick Mornehan got screamed about,
but parenting in fatherhood. John Kennedy, if you want to
go back that far, goes to Texas to give his
speech that he will be a president who's Catholic, but
(12:56):
not a Catholic president takes direction from the poet. So
everybody had a clear a cultural matrix that underscored their
economic message.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
And I don't understand how in.
Speaker 4 (13:08):
Twenty twenty four where did it go? Yeah that well,
I know where to go on the value system. And
there's some people even talking about running now who had
pronouns on their handle and stuff like that. But look,
as a mayor twenty sixteen, dealt with bathroom acxis.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (13:27):
I never lost focused on graduation rates, reading scores, mass scores,
which is why Stanford said Chicago public school systems were
the best by ninety eight percent of all public school systems.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
I was ambassador. We had people trans people to work there. Great,
you're paid by the taxpayers. Do your job. This was
not a game of identity politics.
Speaker 4 (13:46):
It was a game of actually fulfilling our mission as
the embassy for the United States of America, which is
I want to say this with two kids in the
Armed forces, if you're an American, you.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Have won the lottery life. And we need to start saying.
Speaker 4 (14:02):
That and start there is a lot to fix with America,
but this is the lottery of life, and we have
won the winning ticket. And it's an honor to be
an American, and it's honor to serve and improve the country.
And to me, the Party got in a cultural cul
de sac and never got outside of it, and they
talked to themselves and they didn't realize. You know, part
(14:24):
of campaigns is the other side was saying X, Well
they get a voice, you have to respond to it.
We don't want we think this whole cultural thing is
a loser.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
No, I'm ready to talk about it. I'm ready to.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Talk about putting more police on the beat and getting kids,
guns and gangs off the street. And I'm going to
tell you this, having visited children at hospitals at home,
I don't.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Want to do this. Don't.
Speaker 4 (14:49):
Yes, data is coming down, but nobody walks around going
you know what, I feel twenty two safer this year
than I think. Right, Okay, you don't let your kid,
you don't sit up on the front porch, you're not safe.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
You don't let your kids.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Go after dark to go to a local ice cream
place in the summer, you are not safe. And it's
right logical, and we should embrace taking on that issue
and embrace taking on the fact that we are comfortable
talking about public safety, immigration, all the issues that make
(15:24):
up people's lives and homelessness.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
And it's not that hard.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
It feels hard, and I just watching it field. Well, yeah,
and I'm wondering, like, where's the democrat the democratic agenda,
Like do Democrats need a new new deal contract with America?
Like where's the thing that's going to bind progressives and
(15:48):
moderates all over the country around some common ground so
that they can run together as a party and not
against each other.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
Well, well, the primary will be I actually think it's
going to be healthy.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
Now, let me do one piece of history and I'll
come right to that.
Speaker 4 (16:04):
My answer to that question, let me interrupt myself, is
it's about the fact that the American dream is unaffordable,
it's inaccessible.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
As a Democrat, that's unacceptable to me, and it.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
Comes to restoring our education as a goal because you
are living a period of time where you earn what
you learn. Now, we did something in Chicago that I'm
very proud of. For a couple of things, and at
least on high school one you get a B average.
Community college is free, but you earn it.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
It was called the Chicago Stars Scholarship.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
Number five.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Number two.
Speaker 4 (16:39):
This is something I think we should talk about nationally
and in Poe and not in Posed, but do kind
of a race to the top.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
To get your high school diploma, you must show a
letter of acceptance from a college, community college, branch of
the Armed forces, or vocational school. Every children, not the
emmanual children alone, will have a post high school plan.
So when you walk on graduation day, you know where
you're walking to.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Yeah, okay, And we don't have a person to waste
In the twenty first century, we're about to face off
with China and they're three times our size. We can't
afford somebody to not be as productive and successful as
they need to be in this battle. Number two, I
get to the American nam now here is my analysis.
(17:26):
We lose Carter Bondale to Caucus. We're spending a lot
of time progressive groups in Alibhat. But Bill clint Win's
nomination in Dale see the Democratic leaves is core to
his intellectual framework, so core. He picks an echo chamber
with al Gore, which had not been done usually you
balanced it was echo chamber about being new Democrats. Now
(17:52):
I'm a fan of Admyer, etc. And I'm as guilty
as everybody else of this President Obama wins the nomination
and wins the election post eight years of Bush. You
look at the coalition that makes it up. And around
that time is the zeitgeist that demographics are destiny and
(18:13):
Democrats just have to stand there and this sucker is
coming right towards us.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
We don't have to do any and we become intellectually flabby.
We don't think through not.
Speaker 4 (18:24):
Just healthcare, which is a great thing, but what's next
and that period, and I do think there's four in
the last first twenty five years of the twenty first century.
There are four peak moments that have defined not only
our economics but our politics. We fall down on the
number one job of politics, which is, as Bill Clinton
(18:45):
used to always say, is the most undervalued thing in
politics is ideas and we become intellectually, we don't have
to do anything to look at the demographics.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Look at Hispanic voters.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
Look at African America voters, look at women, look at
college educate, just got them. Just stand here and their
wave is coming to us. And and I and I
said in the beginning guiltiest charge. I repeated this so stupidity,
and it is. It's stupidity, and we are paying a price.
Now the benefit is I think we've acknowledged that, and
(19:16):
we are now thinking. Now there's a policy.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Group every five minutes opening up. But you know, what
do you do? We were talking about this earlier.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
Why is rama manual getting a mortgage deduction for a
second home when other families can't get.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
A first home? The system is screwed.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
And I have other words I'd like to use, but
I don't want you to get knocked off on the
podcast world.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
FCC can come after you.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
The whole system, the idea that literally a college education,
The reason people can't buy home they come out of
college is because they're down payment and their mortgage and
their mortgage payment are going to student loans.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
Right, this is insane.
Speaker 2 (19:59):
Yet, and that's just college education.
Speaker 4 (20:02):
There's a whole host We are literally making that ten
percent of the children of America get access to the
American dream and the other ninety percent look at a
frosted window and try to look in not the American dream.
Speaker 2 (20:16):
It's turned into American nightmare.
Speaker 3 (20:18):
And they.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
They have every right to be.
Speaker 1 (20:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
We And as I said in Iowa when I was
there about a month ago, I spent my full adult
life trying to undrig a system that I thought was rigged.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Well, let me guess you, I'm not doing it anymore.
I'm for a rig system.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
I'm for rigging it for you and against those guys,
which is my whole life.
Speaker 2 (20:39):
You know, whether it was taking on the NRA.
Speaker 4 (20:40):
On the assault weapon ban, first city to sue the
pharmaceutical industry over opiates, taking on the educational biocracy, taking
on the insurance companies that were on the ten million
kids who had no health care, taking out of the
tobacco industry to give free eye in dental care to
the kids of the sneach.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
I'm for a rig system. Just want to know who's
going to be rigged?
Speaker 4 (21:01):
Four And I know it could because the system is
you know that great line paranoid people even have enemies.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
The system is rigged getting You're right, it's not a
conspiracy theory.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
This is not You're not gonna wake up. You're getting screwed.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah. Coming up after the break, stay tuned for my
exit poll with Ram Emmanuel and after that my hot
take for the week. So we end every talking politics
with three questions of varying degrees of seriousness. I'm calling
(21:38):
this the exit poll. The first question is what's your
favorite political movie?
Speaker 2 (21:44):
What is my favorite political movie?
Speaker 4 (21:47):
Well, my favorite movie is Godfather too, Okay, I can
also claim that could be also my favorite political movie.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Sure, okay, yep, I'll stick with that.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
I like it. Who's someone on the other side of
the aisle one you know.
Speaker 4 (22:03):
I would say, is the documentary uh made? I think
it's called The Fogle War?
Speaker 1 (22:12):
Oh great?
Speaker 4 (22:13):
Yes, yeah, and that is if you say pure politics.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
Oh it's so good.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yeah, the Fog of War would be my favorite.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Okay, that's fantastic. Who's someone on the other side of
the aisle that you admire?
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Mike Gallagher?
Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yep?
Speaker 4 (22:30):
And the reason, well, we're friend, we meet, we don't
know each other, we deserve together. We meet and at
a dinner that when I'm ambassador, I'm in town and
I have the head of the Armed services were just
like five of us, six of us. And Mike, as
he told I, getting you know him, and I asked,
(22:50):
he says something about his kids, et cetera. And I said,
let me tell you what we did when I was
a congressman, chief staff and mayor, and how to make
sure kids grow up healthy and that our jobs don't approach.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And while I never wanted to.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
See what happened to Mike and his family, a lot
of these people say, Oh, I'm gonna quit so I
can spend more time with the family listen. But he
actually didn't have to, and he did. And I think
it revealed character that his children, his wife, his family
was more important than a guy who was on the
hockey stick up.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
In his career.
Speaker 4 (23:26):
And I say that I admire him because I think
it showed an earnestness of character and judgment that is
outside if you get out of foreign policy. We don't
agree a lot, but I agree with the character of
the human being. And I don't think he gets enough
recognition for you know, a lot of people, Oh, I'm
(23:47):
gonna go.
Speaker 2 (23:48):
Spend more time in a family. Like your family doesn't
want to spend more time with you, so forget. But
they don't like you that you don't.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
Even like yourself, so give me a break in this case.
In this case is the truth.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And I think and I admire the strength attempt to
do it as well as a character.
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Finally, last question, how do we save our democracy?
Speaker 4 (24:12):
Well, it gets to the first point. If my analysis
is right about the American dream, it's.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Not a coincidence.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
The moment the American dream really starts to become unaffordable
is exactly when our democracy becomes unstable.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
And while I'm for voting rights to act on for
same day voting and etc.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
If people believe in the system, they will believe in
the efficacy as well as the effectiveness.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
Now there is a lot. This is if I get
ever invited back.
Speaker 4 (24:47):
I think there are four peak moments that have destroyed,
are not destroyed, have really set back our country, our democracy,
and our economy. A war built down on set of lies,
where we lost thousands of men of women, promise of
America and spend a trillion dollars on the deserts of Fallujah,
(25:07):
and nobody is held accountable. They're in universities and on boards.
Three years later, the financial meltdown built on lyyer loans,
People lose their home, the American dream, and those ungrateful
sobs get bailed out. And now we get bailed out.
They think they deserve a bonus.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
Four years after. They're a little longer after that, China goes.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
From being a strategic competitor to strategic adversary at their choice,
and we hold on to the mythology that they still
want to be competitors.
Speaker 2 (25:41):
Not adversaries.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
And we let Battle Creek battle Beijing on its own,
and we don't invest in America or Americans. And then
fourth and finally, and we continue to do that where
the elite get off and everybody else gets the downdraft.
And then COVID also about eight six years later, and
so maybe a little longer, and all of us kind
(26:05):
of self righteous people have the essential workers expose themselves
while we get to work from home or do whatever.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think those four peaks, and I could be missing some.
Speaker 4 (26:17):
That's my analysis, but I think if you look at
the last twenty five years, it is twenty twenty five
from the beginning of the twenty first century. That is
the breakdown in both an agreement about the economic system
and its rewards and opportunities, and also the consensus that
(26:40):
we are all held accountable by.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
One rule book. And it's not true. Now you have
a bunch of people that lie to America knowingly.
Speaker 4 (26:50):
Lose thousands of men and women built on a lie
on yellow cake from Niger, and not one of them
have ever had the character of decency turn around and say.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I'm sorry, Yeah, I messed up.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
Yeah, and it's the trillion dollars that you know, you
might jump. My view on the Iraq War is that
the only one that won between US and the Iraqi
regime was China. They won, and so that to me
are the when you say restore our democracy, yeah, restore
the accessibility of the American dream.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
You'll be amazed how confident people are in this country.
Speaker 1 (27:28):
Listen, I could talk to you all day. I really
appreciate you being here for our first talk about question.
Speaker 4 (27:35):
Since I make each of my kids read a book
with me, yeah, I just finished one with Zachariah. We
read eighteen sixty one, Jay Winnick's new book, and I
made Alana read, not made she read nineteen.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
Forty four by Jaywin. What's your favorite political book?
Speaker 4 (27:54):
Oh, yeah, you got movies kind of like down to
about thirty.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
So what's your favorite book? Which is down to three thousand?
Speaker 1 (28:01):
Mmmm. I don't want to sound like a total loser here.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
That's okay. It's just the two of us will edit this.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
Out to pro deserf them Hyak, which one Hiak Road
deserved them? Huh, I'm a nerd, I'm a loser.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Okay, Gary Wills Gettysburg nice. I think that. I think
that is a great.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Great I think I need to come into this century
or even the last one.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
You got to get there, man, And it sounded.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Like Detokville and Yak, and I need to come into
the modern era.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
Oh, do it slowly, but you put it's like wind
share put it on.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
Okay, easy, Yeah, go in slowly, don't don't die, don't
dive into the deep end without your water wings.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
From Emmanuel, thank you so much. This was great. I
appreciate you, Luck, I'm honored. I appreciate you, and I
appreciate David axel Rod for connecting us. Oh what a
great conversation. I really really love a lot of what
rom had to say, and I think if more Democrats
talked like him, they'd be in a much better position.
(29:16):
But great, first guest, so thrilled. We're not always going
to have guests on talking politics. This is going to
be your destination for my piping hot political takes, but
we will have guests, and I've got some. I've got
some coming up that are going to be great. But
let's get to today's hot take and my mini mono,
(29:39):
mini monologue.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Here.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
For this first mini mono, I want to talk about
a guy named Todd Aiken. If you don't remember Todd, congratulations,
But he was a congressman from Missouri from twenty one
to twenty thirteen. He was a Republican, and in twenty
twelve he ran to unseat Democratic Senator Claire mccaskell. It was,
(30:03):
as you know, twenty twelve an election year, and Mitt
Romney was running against Obama, so every other down ballot
race was really being scrutinized heavily. To Daiken did a
local interview with k tv I Saint Louis. He'd probably
done one hundred interviews with local news over the course
of his campaign, and he probably thought this one was
going to be like any other It wasn't. He was
(30:27):
asked about exceptions to abortion in the case of rape,
and heres how that went.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
If an abortion could be considered in a case of say,
tubal pregnancy or something like that, what about in the
case of.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Rape, should it be legal or not?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Well, you know, people always want to try and make
that as one of those things. So how do you
slice this particularly tough sort of ethical question. It seems
to me, first of all, from what I understand from doctors,
that's really rare. If it's a legitimate rape, the female
body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.
But let's assume that maybe that didn't work or something.
(31:02):
You know, I think there should be some punishment, but
the punishment ought to be in the rapist and not
attacking the child.
Speaker 1 (31:08):
I gotta tell you, I've heard that clip probably one
hundred times because I covered that election. I just heard
it again, and like, my stomach is churning, as you
can imagine, a few things bothered people about that answer.
For one, the words legitimate rape. What does that mean
as opposed to an illegitimate rape? Then the female body
(31:33):
don't say that, but the female body has ways to
try to shut that whole thing down. What excuse me,
I beg your finest pardon, sir. If we're legitimately raped,
our body shuts it down so we can't get pregnant.
That is news to the female body. That is news
(31:54):
to us. And finally there should be some punishment. Yeah,
that didn't sound great to people either. The reaction to
this congressman, most people hadn't previously heard of, it was swift.
The condemnation was resounding, and importantly it came from his
fellow Republicans. Mitt Romney, the nominee, urged him to drop out.
(32:15):
Paul Ryan, his running mate, also called for him to
step down. Mitch McConnell said his apology was insufficient. Roy
Blunt and other Missouri Republicans like John Ashcroft, Kit Bond,
John Danforth, Jim Tallant, they all urged him to drop
out of this race. The National Republican Senatorial Committee then
sc withdrew millions of dollars from his race. Conservative groups
(32:41):
like American Crossroads pulled their advertising from his race. And
get this, Sean Hammity begged Aiken to drop out, saying,
sometimes an election is bigger than one person. Now, this
is all hard to imagine today, Republicans uniting against a
fellow Republican who'd behave badly and urging him to do
(33:02):
the right thing, to put country before party and party
before personal gain. To his credit, either because you wanted
to or he had to, Todd Aikeen issued a total
apology and cut an ad asking for forgiveness. Ultimately, it
wasn't enough. He lost badly, and he became an asterisk
(33:22):
in history books known for this moment, And some people
even suggest this moment tanked Romney's presidential bid because it
was like right before the RNC, like a week before
the RNC. It was all anyone was talking about. Now,
we can't imagine all this happening today because it isn't
happening today. Leaked texts from a young Republican group chap
(33:47):
in which horrendous comments were made racist, sexist, anti submit a, homophobic, xenophobic,
you name it. They checked every bigot box there is.
There was even one just saying I love him. They've
exposed an unseemly and gross comfort inside the party with
(34:08):
saying this stuff out loud among friends, where they obviously
thought what could go wrong? I'm a good company here
dropping the N word, the homophobic f slur saying I
love Hitler. This would all be well received. That is
such a tell that enough people on this chat thought
they were in good enough company saying things most people
(34:30):
wouldn't even think that. Most bigots wouldn't even whisper, let
alone share in a group text. But this isn't a
toaddagn situation. Very little backlash from inside the tent. Where
are the party elders to tell these guys, grown men
and women, by the way, not kids, that they acted
(34:52):
like fools and assholes, and to assure the nation that
they don't represent the GOP future or present look some have.
To their credit, Republican Governor of Vermont Phil Scott said
the head of his states why our chapter should resign.
New York Republican congress people Mike Waller and Elis Staphonick
(35:12):
also condemned the rhetoric. Again to their credit, Well, what
about GOP leadership speaker Mike Johnson was asked if he
was worried about extremist pro Hitler sentiment among the party's
young Republicans. He said no, He said yeah, he condemned
the rhetoric, but also dismissed it, saying he didn't know
who any of these people are. Does that matter? There's
(35:36):
been nothing from the president, a guy who keeps posting
videos of House Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries in a sombrero.
Spokespeople have insisted Trump doesn't know these guys, even though
there's a picture of him with two of them from
a rally last year. It's not surprising. Trump spent weeks
refusing to disavow KKK leader David Duke. In twenty sixteen,
(36:00):
he called neo Nazis some very fine people. He welcomes
white nationalists and insurrectionists into the party. He has lunch
with neo Nazi Nick Fuentes and anti semi Kanye West.
Trump hasn't weigh in, no surprise, but Vice President Jade
Vance has and it's disgusting. He says. The reality is
that kids do stupid things, especially young boys. Again, these
(36:22):
are thirty year olds, they're not young. They're not boys.
He said. They tell edgy, offensive jokes like that's what
kids do. And I don't really want to grow up
in a country where a kid telling a stupid joke
is caused to ruin their lives and at some point,
we're all going to have to say enough of this BS.
We're not going to allow the worst moment in a
twenty one year old group chat to ruin a kid's
(36:45):
life for the rest of time. That's just not okay.
So having these men, not kids, face consequences for their actions,
that's not okay. For the vice president, instead of saying
the e the easy obvious thing, which is that they
are assholes and they said inexcusable things that make Rehoblicans
(37:06):
look horrible and of course should lose their jobs in
the party, Vance goes out of his way to defend them.
That's how corrupted the party is. That's how diseased MAGA
is that the vice president feels comfortable defending this garbage,
which is easily rebuked. These aren't pople running for office.
(37:27):
You're not in danger of losing seats. Just say the thing.
They're losers, they're bigots, they shouldn't have positions in the party.
But no, Vance's knee jerk reaction is I need to
somehow defend this. Todd Akin is probably in a deer
blind somewhere in Missouri, shaking his head, wishing he lived
(37:47):
in this Republican timeline. I did all that groveling only
to lose my election, lose my job, get totally excommunicated
from the party, and become a punchline and cautionary tale.
If he'd said what you said today, would anyone have
even batted? And I I doubt it. Okay, that's today's
(38:09):
talking politics, folks. We'll see you back here next week,
and don't forget to tune in to our Off the
Cup interviews and our talk and coffee pod in a
pod too. Off the Cup is a production of iHeart
Podcasts as part of the Reason Choice Network. If you
want more, check out the other Reason Choice podcasts, Politics
(38:31):
with Jamel Hill and Native Land Pod. For Off the Cup,
I am your host, Si Cup. Editing and sound design
by Derek Clements. Our executive producers are Me Si Cup,
Lauren Hanson, and Lindsay Hoffman. Rate and review wherever you
get your podcasts, follow or subscribe for new episodes every Wednesday.
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S.E. Cupp
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