October 18, 2023 • 34 mins
With only a degree from "the school of hard knocks," one of Forbes World's Most Influential CMOs and Time Magazine's 100 Next gives the real deal on marketing, product development, social media, and more...
🎙️ The side hustle path to CEO
🎙️ Should you get an MBA?
🎙️ How to get 500K people to follow *you* on social
🎙️ A 4-day work week???
🎙️ The insider’s guide to collecting contemporary art
This episode just might change your life. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-office-hours-with-mike-st-122602026/
Go deeper:
💯Everette’s profile in The new Time100 Next: https://time.com/collection/time100-next-2023/6308465/everette-taylor/
🖼️ How to become an expert art collector: https://www.artsy.net/article/artsy-editorial-5-tips-first-time-art-collectors
🎧 Gucci Mane explaining The Sauce: https://youtu.be/g0-F88c6Hrk?si=sqT9FxH66VPRSEcc
💪 The Career Manifesto, Mike's full reading list, art picks, and other resources here: www.mikesteib.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to Office Hours, where we sit down with the
world's most important chief executives and answer your most pressing
questions about leadership, career, and life. I'm Mike Steibe. Today
we're joined by one of my favorite people, Everett Taylor.
Everett is the CEO of the global crowdfunding platform Kickstarter,
formerly the founder of multiple successful digital marketing businesses, and
(00:28):
most importantly for me, he was the CMO of Artsy,
where he and I work together transforming the world of
art collecting. He's graced the cover of Black Enterprise and
been recognized as one of the world's most influential cmos
by Forbes. He's even had his portrait painted by famous
artists Henry Taylor and Otis Quaco and he's only thirty
three years old. Everett, my good friend. Welcome to the
(00:51):
show man.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Men.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
All right, evertt is you know the format here is
a lot like real life office. Our listeners have questions
for the CEO and we answer them. The theme of
the questions we selected today ranges from marketing to product,
personal career challenges, and a really fun one. I'm going
to say for the end jend of the team have
ted them all up for us, and we're gonna let
it rip.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
You ready, I'm cool, Let's go. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hi, this is Kate from Mountain View. I'm early in
my career and it is my goal to make.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
It to CEO before forty.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You both made CEO at a pretty young age.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Can you talk about the path there and what I
should be doing now to make fast progress.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's ambitious for starting off, for starting off hot.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Ever, tell everybody a little bit about your background.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
My background was a little bit unorthodox because I, you know,
dropped out of college at nineteen and I started my
first company, started my first company, sold it in a
couple of years, and in over the course of that
next decade, you know, I was taking different marketing and
business roles so I could learn, you know, more about
the skills that I needed to run a company at
(02:02):
a higher, bigger level, but also at the same time
starting my own companies and getting that entrepreneurial experience and
that CEO experience at that level. And so it was
the balance of knowing that I could, through my side
hustles get a feel for what it was like to
run a business right, which was super important. But at
the same time, I understood there were certain skills that
(02:23):
I needed to acquire that I couldn't gain from just
a small business or a small startup, and so I
always kept that balance of starting my own things, gaining
that experience, but also combining it with the experience that
I needed at bigger companies.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So you were very intentional about the things you wanted
to learn, yes, and you filled in those blanks with
side hustle yes. I think that is a super valuable
point I would share with you, Kate. Earlier in my career,
I had not started a business yet like Everett had.
I was in like a corporate job. I was looking around,
I saying, what am I going to do with myself?
(03:02):
I know that I want to run a business someday,
and I'm looking at this long ladder to get to leadership.
And so I did this exercise that I just I
recommend to anyone who asked me a question like this.
I went, I just looked up the bios of people
who had jobs like I wanted to be a CEO.
I've found CEOs I respected and admired. I studied their
(03:22):
bios and I wrote down the things that they had
to be really good at to do that job and
to do it well. And then I compared those things
to where I was today in my job, and I
made it was a very very long list, but a
list of things that I was going to do either
in my job, in my side hustle, or in the
next job I was going to take that would start
to fill in those blanks. Next up, we've got Jeff
(03:45):
in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Hey, Mikey team, this is Jeff from Atlanta.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
I'm in sales and I want to move into a
more strategic function.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So I'm wondering if you think I should leave my
job and get an MBA.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
I didn't go to a top tier college and I'm
wondering if this would help.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
You know, what's so interesting is that I'm a college dropout.
I actually dropped out of college three times. I don't
have a bachelor's degree, I don't have an MBA. I
don't have any of that. I remember growing up and
you know, people be like, you know, you have a
degree from the School of Hard Knots, and you know,
I think growing up in my experiences of seeing a
(04:21):
lot of things and being around a lot of different
types of people, and seeing both the element of people
not having much and then throughout my life seeing people
who have so much. You talk about the art world.
It gave me this greater understanding of people in general,
and what I've learned in my career when it comes
(04:43):
to strategy and thinking about marketing product and all these things,
and even being a CEO, it really boils down to
understanding people and having empathy for people. When you're building products,
when you're thinking about marketing, when you're thinking about running
people in hr when you're thinking about how you're communicating
externally and internally, it all boils down to people. And
(05:06):
I think that's been my superpower. A degree can't give
you that, And so the structure of college and universities
and seeing people go down the same paths didn't really,
you know, wasn't attractive to me.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Some researchers at Harvard did a long term study on
not just CEOs, but high performing CEOs, and they found
that seven percent had an Ivy League degree and eight
percent had no degree. So if you look at the
top level and you're just looking at who's in the
org chart and who's got you know, the fanciest LinkedIn?
(05:43):
It tends to skew towards MBAs and towards top college degrees.
If you go one level deeper and say who actually
makes CEO? Sixty three percent of public company CEOs do
not have an MBA. And if you go a level
deeper than that, who's really performing? Man, it does not matter.
The degree doesn't matter. What matters is have you put
(06:04):
yourself out there, have you leaned into challenging situations, have
you learned from them? And do you carry the burden
of servant leadership? So we come all the way back
then to Jeff's question was, Hey, man, I'm in sales.
I want to get out of sales? Jeff, I would say,
if you do an exercise like the one I did,
where you identify the gaps between where you are and
the things you would have to learn to move into
(06:25):
and be good at a role and something else. If
the only way to fill that gap for you is
through school, I would say, go to school. If you
can fill those gaps with side hustle, by taking on
other projects or finding somebody to take a bet on
you and put you into a new role. Personally, I'd
try that because it saves you two years, saves you
the high investment cost of your MBA, and honestly, there
(06:48):
is echoing effort sentiments. There is no better way to
learn than by doing it, and there's no greater asset
in your career than all the time you take engaging
with people in these challenging situations and life learning from them.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Who's next?
Speaker 7 (07:02):
Hi, This is Maria from New York and my question
is for Everett. Everett, I love marketing, and I'm trying
to decide if it's the best way to a senior
leadership role is through the brand marketing path or the
growth marketing path. I'm not like a creative genius or anything,
but I love great brands. So any advice from a
(07:22):
former CMO like he would be really helpful.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Ever, take that one away.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, that's that's actually a great question. So interestingly enough,
you look at my career, it's kind of split a
little bit half and half. Earlier in my careers, especially
at early stage startups, like growth was super important, like
being like a data driven, growth minded performance marketer, and
so like the early days in which I was doing marketing,
(07:48):
I was really focused on performance marketing, SEO life cycle marketing,
and really focused on growth channels. But as I looked around,
like Mike made this point of like, you know, if
you want to get to CEO, you want to get
to CMO. Like looking at the profiles, what I realized
was that a lot of the senior leaders in marketing
and cmos were brand creative content people you know that
(08:13):
were also like analytically sound, but a lot of them
came from more of a brand and creative background when
I looked across many of the cmos that I was
seeing across companies, and I think it's because the skill
sets of growth aren't necessarily always tied to maybe the
best people managers or understanding the brand at a large scale,
(08:37):
like they you know, the person that is really good
at CEO or the person that's really good at you know,
performance marketing might not be able to think about the
brand in a way that's needed for senior leadership roles,
but also may not be the person that is equipped
to deal with lots of people. Because the secret to
(08:59):
leadership in getting to the senior leadership roles is you're
doing less of the actual work itself. It's a lot
of you know, talent management, hiring the right people, recruiting,
managing egos, and making the right decisions. And so for me,
I saw that I needed to equit myself with more brand,
creative and content skills, especially on the brand side, because
(09:23):
I felt like I could get the right growth people
underneath me to do those types of things.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
You definitely have to be competent at all of the
functions within marketing, including as ever noted, leadership. You have
to be a good manager, but you're going to have
to be extraordinary at one of them if you want
to be an executive leading that function. And Maria, you
know my advice for what it's worth is you're most
likely to be extraordinary at whichever one of these gets
(09:52):
you most excited.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Hi, Mike, this is June. I wanted to ask you
something because the founder of our company has recently started
telling everyone that we have to become growth hackers in
order to grow our audience and stand business. The problem
is that everyone is afraid to ask him what exactly
growth hacking is. Can you please explain this and tell
me how I can learn it?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Well? I picked this question out of the hat because
you were here ever? Tell all right, you know, the
majority of the folks listening to this podcast today aren't marketers,
but they hear all these terms like help us, help
us get our heads around what is the job?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
It take and and then for June, what's growth hacking?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yeah? So funny enough. I don't know if you knew
this about me, Mike, but I actually co founded growthhackers
dot com with Sean Ellis. I know everything about you
coined the term growth hacking, and it comes down to
when it comes down to growth hacking. You know, when
you think about growth hacking, it's really was a way
(11:07):
for startups that were emerging in silicon value that didn't
have big budgets to strategically come up with hacks to
accelerate growth.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So one of the classic examples was Craigslist. Airbnb used
to list all of their listings on craigslists. Seems creepy now,
but it worked out for them. But when you really
break what growth hacking down is, it's just really smart
analytically driven marketing. It's like being creative understanding there's a
(11:38):
problem to solve to get scale, understanding that you know,
budget may be a restraint or manpower may be a restraint,
but being creative and innovative with your marketing, but also
making sure that you're data driven and that you're keeping
yourself honest through that data. That's really what it all
comes down to, and that's what marketing is. Market is
(12:00):
trying to solve complex problems, to get scale and do
things that are engaging to people. And so you could
put fancy titles around it like growth hacking and etc.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Etc. But all it is is just great innovative marketing.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Perfect answer, Thank you. I would also I would note
for you June, when you hear questions like this from
leadership or just when you approach your job, it's always
good to ask yourself what is my leadership team really
worried about? The founder of your company is not really
worried about growth hacking. He's worried about growing users and
growing revenue.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
All right.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So Philip, who says he's followed you ever on social
media for a long time, like many people do, he
has a good one for you.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
Hi, my name is Philip, and I have a question
about social media. So, Everett, you have more followers than
a lot of cmos and CEOs at some of the
biggest companies in the world. How do I grow my following?
Can you buy followers or is there some other way
to get an edge? Is it worth the effort? Thanks?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, I been wanting to ask him this question for years. Everett,
how do we all get more followers?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
You know, I was very lucky early on because one,
I grew a lot of my following during a time
where it was a lot easier to grow faster on
the social media networks. Also, I kind of cheated because
I created a software called pop Social, which was an
automation tool that helped me grow my following greatly over
(13:34):
the course of a few years. With that being said,
what I've learned most recently is on LinkedIn, because LinkedIn
is a channel that I hadn't used a lot, and
if you look at my LinkedIn following, I have like
twenty some thousand followers, but it pales in comparison to
most of my channels. But what I realized was a
(13:56):
few key things about LinkedIn. One is having a unique
perspective or voice that you can give, and I've seen
that not only on LinkedIn, being you know, a young CEO,
being in a position that I am and having a
very unique view and take on the world and the
(14:17):
take on business and being able to be vocal about it.
And so when you're thinking about growing your social media,
think about what is your superpower? What is the thing
that makes you special and makes you stand out? Like,
I know, I can't just sit there and like take
selfies all day and grow super fast, but I do
know if I'm giving out very solid business advice or
(14:37):
being able to be vulnerable like a lot of execs
aren't willing to do. That was kind of my sweet
spot and it helped me grow on other social media platforms,
and I see how it's helped me grow pretty fast
on LinkedIn. Number two is just like consistently studying best practices,
the algorithm and what's going on. You know, if you're
(14:58):
using Instagram or using the these other channels, you need
to know what's actually driving engagement right now on a
lot of channels, on a lot of social media platforms,
it's video, it's reals, it's tiktoks. All of that is video, video, video, video.
So you can create all the static content that you want,
but if you're not creating engaging videos, then it doesn't matter.
(15:20):
And so again number one finding your unique perspective in
voice and talent on social media, and number two really
studying what is the best practices. And number three is
something I don't even do well, but it's like, you know, velocity,
like continuing to post, being consistent all the time, posting, posting, posting, posting.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Iou one other thing I'd noticed, ever, it's the best
at this. So I very little to add other than
if you follow the companies who own these social media platforms,
like read the articles about them or listen to their
earnings calls, they're telling you without telling you directly, how
you can one of those platforms. So there was a
moment where everything Google cared about was mobile web because
(16:06):
they were competing with Apple and they were worried all
the traffic would go to apps. Well, if you really
want a great SEO on your website, the answer was right,
there have an awesome mobile optimized website. If you listen
to the earnings calls for Meta, all they are asked
by their analysts is what about TikTok? What about TikTok?
So where do you think the algorithm on Instagram is
(16:26):
being tuned up?
Speaker 7 (16:27):
Now?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Is being tuned up to reward everyone who puts content
like TikTok content, which is short form videos on Instagram.
So pay attention to the game at the top level
where the money's made, and you'll know how the game's
going to be played where the followers come.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yep, absolutely all right.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
This next one I love. This is a product question.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Hi, Mike, This is Amanda. So I love both of
your company's products, the design, the utility, all of it.
It's so hard to make a product or a feature
that really stands out. So I was wondering what advice
do you have for people trying to build really truly
great apps.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You know, I'll take the first bite at this, and
then Everett, there's something I really want to talk with
you about. My last company was called The Not and
the new team came in at the nodded like twenty
and thirteen, and at the time the company was very
much a web one point zero content and display advertising business.
And the new team came in and we had this idea,
(17:26):
which was, all these people are planning their weddings. That
Not helped people plan weddings, and what do they really need? Well,
like the luckiest twenty percent of people have the money
to pay a wedding planner. The wedding planner like takes
all the problems away from your wedding. The other eighty
percent had to do it themselves. And it's overwhelming and
it's expensive and it's intimidating. And we're like, what if
(17:47):
we use what if we build software that will be
as good as a wedding planner for every person in America?
Give everybody that joy? And we honestly did not know
how to make money with it. We're like, I don't
know you charge for it? You just keep running advertising?
Do you build a marketplace, run a We had all
these you know, hypotheticals, but we're like, first, let's build
an awesome product. And we had to rebuild the technology
(18:09):
stack and the team and all of it. But building
the awesome product started with saying, what is a really
special thing I can do for someone? What is a
human a human journey, a human problem that we can
solve with technology or help solve with technology. And once
you do that, the business will follow. Everett, you and
I were in a meeting together and we were talking
(18:31):
about the Artsy product. And now for those of you
who aren't art collectors, arts is an amazing way to
collect art. The products come a long way in the
three years Evert and I worked together. Everett had a
complaint about the product. Do you remember you told the
team a quote by Gucci Man, Yes, and then you
explained what was deficiting the product.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Please tell us it didn't have a sauce.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
The quote and tell us what you meant, because it
was so on the money.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah, it's it's the sol is that special thing. It's
that special thing that makes you know if a person
has a sauce, you know, you can't you know, you
can't be born with the sauce. You gotta, you gotta,
you gotta, you gotta have that sauce. You got to
acquire that sauce. And you know Artsy, you know, for
as long as it had been around, and it was
(19:19):
such an amazing app and in company, it didn't have
the sauce. It didn't have that thing that was going
to be engaging and bringing people back every single day
with that must have experience. And I love what you've
been able to do at Artsy because we've you guys,
and while I was there, we completely change that experience
on the app.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So Gucci min says, a man must have the sauce,
but a man can get lost in the sauce. Now,
we never got into what does it mean to be
lost in the sauce? Because I've got so much sauce
now in my new app, is there a risk?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, well you can get you can get lost. You
can get lost in the sauce.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Because is once you have that level of swagger or
start to get that success, you got to.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Continue to remain You got to continue.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
To understand that like that has to continue to develop
and you got to continue to get better.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you can't get lost in a sauce.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Now, I love Kickstarter. Tell me what's the sauce and
Kickstarter or what's the sauce that it needs?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
The sauce that Kickstarter needs right now is very similar
to artsy right, where it's like when people wanted and
needed to buy art, they were coming to Arcy. That
was the number one place that they were coming, right,
But what about engaging them on a consistent basis and
finding ways to engage them on a more regular basis,
(20:42):
Because here's the thing. If someone's being engaged on a
regular basis, they're going to buy more art.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Hunger.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yes, absolutely so Kickstarter. It's so funny. I talked to
Mike all the time and I'm like, I'm running your
playbook in so many ways, because I understand that for
Kickstarter to become sick sucessful, it can be this ephemeral
experience where like, hey, your buddy Joe has a new
e bike and you go and you pledge to that,
and then you don't use Kickstarter for two years. We
need to create experiences where people are going to be
(21:12):
engaged and find it interesting to engage their niche interest.
The same way at arts we knew if you were
into black figurative art or photography, we needed to create
personalized experiences in the content and the things that you
wanted to see to see to make people more engaged.
And that's the sauce that Kickstarter is missing. And then
I'm currently working on is creating engaging content and personalized experiences,
(21:36):
machine learning all of that to make sure that every
time you land on Kickstarter, you're seeing the things that
you're going to most likely be interested in, and find
a way to continue to engage people back onto the
app so they can support more people.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I love it. Next, you've got Eileen, who is an
HR professional in Bentonville.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
Hey, Very, I'm excited to see that your company was
experimenting with a four day work week recommend it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I knew, Mike every Why don't you go first?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
All, I'll go first. So this is my first time
experiencing anything like a four day work week, and I
really really know the importance of work life balance, and
I do love that Kickstarter values work life balance. But
I also understand the importance of making certain sacrifices when
(22:28):
you're in the trenches and trying to get to a
certain place. And so it's been interesting balancing that right, balancing,
you know, a four day work week, where it becomes
more difficult to fit all your meetings and everything that
you need to do in one week into four days,
and it can be a little bit limiting. But also
we've seen the highest retention ever at Kickstarter since I
(22:50):
started five months ago. Not one single person has quit.
People are overall a lot happier, but there still remains
to be seen if that is the right move for
Kickstarter long term.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Everybody's got to manage their own sort of work in
life and all that stuff. But one thing I'd encourage
and encourage anyone who has this question on their mind
to take a look at is if you're hoping to
do your job less, is it the right job for you?
If you wake up and you're thinking, boy, thank goodness,
the four days are over, so now I don't have
(23:25):
to do that for the next three. Did you find
the thing that you really want to build and give
yourself the gift on that fifth day when you're not working,
maybe a Kickstarter or another company practicing this trying this out,
like open up a blank notebook and just start writing down,
like what are the things you want to build and
(23:45):
create in your in your life? And it might be
it might be community, it might be family, It might
be a product you want to build, It might be
a team you want to build, a mission, a service.
But when you find that thing, you are going to
be so motivated. Then no one's ever going to have
to tell you when to work, and you're never going
to have to ask someone when do you have to work.
(24:07):
You're going to use the precious minutes in your life
to build the things that you're proud of with the
people who you love doing it with. And that might
be work, and it might be community. And it might
be church. You'll figure out what those things are for you.
But if you're asking the question how do I do
what I'm doing less, I just would really encourage you
to also ask the question what do I wish I
(24:29):
was doing? Instead?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Great response?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
All right, we have Douglas in Brooklyn. I like this one.
Speaker 8 (24:46):
Seeing a company ran by a CEO who happens to
be a minority is worth congratulating. So first I want
to congratulate you. Now that you have made it to
the top. How will you ensure that other people who
look like you have the opportunities to reach the chop
as well?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Diversity and helping others is something that's extremely important to me.
That's why I'm at Kickstarter. That's why I was at
Artsy to support artists and so actively mentoring others, giving
people opportunities. I'm right now really strategically thinking about how
I can bring in diverse leaders into Kickstarter or place
(25:25):
them or help place them in other companies. And the
first time I speak to anybody that's looking to get to,
you know, the C suite or leadership level is I
asked them what is it that you want? Like, what
is the path that you want and have you strategically
thought about what it's going to take to get there
and ultimately is that the thing that's going to make
(25:46):
you happy? And so what I would challenge you to
challenge you to do is think about strategically what it
is that you want out of life. Are you prepared
to sacrifice and get there? And if so, there's plenty
of people like myself that provide mentorship, guidance and opportunities
(26:08):
for people from diverse backgrounds looking to get a leg up.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
What should more companies be doing to be a better
place for people who are black, people of color, for
people who aren't represented on boards and in c suites
enough today? And then how do we lift up more
of those people into those senior positions.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yeah, that's a great question. I think Number one is
you're never going to be able to make the right
choices if you're not willing to open yourself up to
more diverse hires and get those perspectives. And if you
don't have that diversity in the leadership suite, then you
need to be able to reach out to others who
(26:50):
are in those positions. If you see someone like myself
and others reach out for guidance, reach out for consultation.
We love to get paid, So if you want to
pay us for to pick our brain.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
We'll love that too.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
But I think it's really really important to understand that
you have to make these decisions with the insight of
someone that actually understands these backgrounds and these experiences and
understanding Like I was talking to someone recently and they
were talking about a package that they wanted to give
to someone, and they couldn't understand why this person didn't
(27:25):
want to take more equity, right, And the person was,
you know, prioritizing cash, And I said, listen, this is
a young black man who doesn't come for much, doesn't
have the ability to take the same risks as someone
who may come from a privileged background and may want
more equity and less cash.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
So depending on someone's perspective in their life experience, they
may have different things that they need to take care of,
and so understanding those things is so so important. And
at the time that person was couldn't believe that person
didn't want more equity and wanted to optimize for cash.
But it's different experiences coming from where we come from,
(28:06):
and so it's important to really challenge yourself to understand that,
but also to lean on others who actually understand that.
And also and ultimately what you want to do is
actually have that in your suite, c suite, in leadership
positions at your company.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I think we are going to make business podcast history
with this next question. So let's hear it.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Hey, this is Jessica from New York.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
You guys have both worked in the art market and
collect art, and I, personally, I have always wanted to
start collecting, so I was wondering if you could offer
up any advice on how to get started.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I told you the last one. It's going to be
a fun one.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You want to take this one first.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I want you to take this one first because I've
seen your collection.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Uh not to be a homer here, but like you know,
still to this day when people ask me, I talk
about the talk about the Artsy app because it is
one of the best ways to learn and educate yourself.
We have so much evergreen content, or you all have
so much evergreen content about.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
On the Gangways.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
It's our app, and so you know, I think the
ability to explore and learn about different artists and kind
of figure out what your tastes are is super important,
but more importantly is to one build relationships. Build relationships
with different collectors and people who know things in a space,
(29:32):
whether it's curators, artists, collectors, et cetera, et cetera, and
build relationships with galeries. They're the gatekeepers in a lot
of ways for the artists that you want, and so
it's important to build those relationships. It's a relationship driven
business because there's only so many art pieces by an
artists in any given year, and so it's important to
(29:54):
have strong relationships there. Number two is like, go see
a bunch of art, like, go see a lot out
of it, and make sure that you're figuring out what
you like and not what other people are telling you
that you like. One of the things I was really
impressed by you, Mike, was you know, early on, like
your advisor might say this or that, and you were like, no,
(30:15):
but I like this and I like that, And I
think that's amazing trying to figure out or figure out your.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Own taste and what you want.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
And lastly, the thing that I would say is set
a realistic budget. Set a realistic budget of what you
can do, and I think that's super important because it
can get addictive and get a little out of control sometimes.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, I would say for our listeners there is I
did not collect art before I was at arts, and
I learned having friends like Everett and others who were
in the game. I really learned the art world, the
art market, and got to know a bunch of artists.
It's an absolute joy. You not only bring something into
(30:59):
your home and into your life that's going to give
you endorphins and you don't make you happy every time
you walk by it, you also get to be a
patron to a working artist who's trying to create a
career around telling their story and bringing their art to
the world. It's important and it feels good. So my
suggestion to everyone is collect art and evert And I
(31:21):
always joke you only regret the paintings you don't buy.
So if you see something and you love it and
it's in your budget, like, you're never ever going to
wish that you hadn't. And I will note because I
love this so much, you slide into my DMS, you
tell me your budget, you tell me three artists you like,
I'll send you a link. I'll take carry you.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's dope. I love that, my friends.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I hope you enjoyed the interview with Everett. I thought
it was awesome sitting down with Everett talking about marketing,
career path and all of it. You know, as I
reflect on our chat, it strikes me as a lot
of people ask what is the path to CEO? I
have to tell you not a lot of people get
there by accident. And I think you heard it in
(32:07):
our conversation with Everett today. This is someone who's had
a plan, who's understood his gaps and the areas in
which he's strong and where he needs to develop, and
has laid out a plan to get from where he
started to the CEO of a very exciting company today.
And i'd encourage all of you as you're thinking about
that path for yourself, whether it's to CEO, CFO, see anything,
(32:28):
whatever you see in the future for you, and if
it's not in business, if it's politics, if it's writing,
whatever it is, be deliberate, execute a deliberate path to
the impact you want to have with your career and
the place where you want to end up. We also
talked about some marketing stuff. You know, marketing can be
(32:49):
buzzworthy and what I loved about our conversation today is ever.
It brought it back to people say growth hacking. What
they're really saying is find clever ways to reach your
audience and get them to come to your product without
spending a lot of money. So that's it, everybody. I
hope you enjoyed it. I did too, and we'll see
you all next week. Don't forget can follow me online.
You can hit me up anytime questions feedback. I love
(33:11):
to hear it at Mike steib on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn,
And if you want to get your question on the
air with us, call us two one three four one
nine five nine six. Maybe you'll be on the next
pod again that number one two one three four one
nine oh five nine six. Your questions and curiosity drive
(33:33):
this podcast. I hope I hear from you. I want
to thank Jen, Meg, Jada, Matt and the whole team
at Blue Duck Media for pulling this all together, Dylan
and Christopher at iHeart, and Ben and the team at
William Morris Endeavor for all their support. I want to
thank Bayyid who's here in the studio with us and
made all the magic. Office Hours is a production of
(33:53):
Blue Duck Media and distributed by our Heart Radio. Have
a great day, guys. I hope you see you next week.
Welcome to Office Hours, where we sit down with the
world's most important chief executives and answer your most pressing
questions about leadership, career, and life. I'm Mike Steibe. Today
we're joined by one of my favorite people, Everett Taylor.
Everett is the CEO of the global crowdfunding platform Kickstarter,
formerly the founder of multiple successful digital marketing businesses, and
(00:28):
most importantly for me, he was the CMO of Artsy,
where he and I work together transforming the world of
art collecting. He's graced the cover of Black Enterprise and
been recognized as one of the world's most influential cmos
by Forbes. He's even had his portrait painted by famous
artists Henry Taylor and Otis Quaco and he's only thirty
three years old. Everett, my good friend. Welcome to the
(00:51):
show man.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Men.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
All right, evertt is you know the format here is
a lot like real life office. Our listeners have questions
for the CEO and we answer them. The theme of
the questions we selected today ranges from marketing to product,
personal career challenges, and a really fun one. I'm going
to say for the end jend of the team have
ted them all up for us, and we're gonna let
it rip.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
You ready, I'm cool, Let's go. Okay.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Hi, this is Kate from Mountain View. I'm early in
my career and it is my goal to make.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
It to CEO before forty.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
You both made CEO at a pretty young age.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
Can you talk about the path there and what I
should be doing now to make fast progress.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I like this.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I like it.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
It's ambitious for starting off, for starting off hot.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Ever, tell everybody a little bit about your background.
Speaker 4 (01:39):
My background was a little bit unorthodox because I, you know,
dropped out of college at nineteen and I started my
first company, started my first company, sold it in a
couple of years, and in over the course of that
next decade, you know, I was taking different marketing and
business roles so I could learn, you know, more about
the skills that I needed to run a company at
(02:02):
a higher, bigger level, but also at the same time
starting my own companies and getting that entrepreneurial experience and
that CEO experience at that level. And so it was
the balance of knowing that I could, through my side
hustles get a feel for what it was like to
run a business right, which was super important. But at
the same time, I understood there were certain skills that
(02:23):
I needed to acquire that I couldn't gain from just
a small business or a small startup, and so I
always kept that balance of starting my own things, gaining
that experience, but also combining it with the experience that
I needed at bigger companies.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
So you were very intentional about the things you wanted
to learn, yes, and you filled in those blanks with
side hustle yes. I think that is a super valuable
point I would share with you, Kate. Earlier in my career,
I had not started a business yet like Everett had.
I was in like a corporate job. I was looking around,
I saying, what am I going to do with myself?
(03:02):
I know that I want to run a business someday,
and I'm looking at this long ladder to get to leadership.
And so I did this exercise that I just I
recommend to anyone who asked me a question like this.
I went, I just looked up the bios of people
who had jobs like I wanted to be a CEO.
I've found CEOs I respected and admired. I studied their
(03:22):
bios and I wrote down the things that they had
to be really good at to do that job and
to do it well. And then I compared those things
to where I was today in my job, and I
made it was a very very long list, but a
list of things that I was going to do either
in my job, in my side hustle, or in the
next job I was going to take that would start
to fill in those blanks. Next up, we've got Jeff
(03:45):
in Atlanta.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Hey, Mikey team, this is Jeff from Atlanta.
Speaker 5 (03:49):
I'm in sales and I want to move into a
more strategic function.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
So I'm wondering if you think I should leave my
job and get an MBA.
Speaker 5 (03:55):
I didn't go to a top tier college and I'm
wondering if this would help.
Speaker 6 (03:59):
Thanks.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
You know, what's so interesting is that I'm a college dropout.
I actually dropped out of college three times. I don't
have a bachelor's degree, I don't have an MBA. I
don't have any of that. I remember growing up and
you know, people be like, you know, you have a
degree from the School of Hard Knots, and you know,
I think growing up in my experiences of seeing a
(04:21):
lot of things and being around a lot of different
types of people, and seeing both the element of people
not having much and then throughout my life seeing people
who have so much. You talk about the art world.
It gave me this greater understanding of people in general,
and what I've learned in my career when it comes
(04:43):
to strategy and thinking about marketing product and all these things,
and even being a CEO, it really boils down to
understanding people and having empathy for people. When you're building products,
when you're thinking about marketing, when you're thinking about running
people in hr when you're thinking about how you're communicating
externally and internally, it all boils down to people. And
(05:06):
I think that's been my superpower. A degree can't give
you that, And so the structure of college and universities
and seeing people go down the same paths didn't really,
you know, wasn't attractive to me.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Some researchers at Harvard did a long term study on
not just CEOs, but high performing CEOs, and they found
that seven percent had an Ivy League degree and eight
percent had no degree. So if you look at the
top level and you're just looking at who's in the
org chart and who's got you know, the fanciest LinkedIn?
(05:43):
It tends to skew towards MBAs and towards top college degrees.
If you go one level deeper and say who actually
makes CEO? Sixty three percent of public company CEOs do
not have an MBA. And if you go a level
deeper than that, who's really performing? Man, it does not matter.
The degree doesn't matter. What matters is have you put
(06:04):
yourself out there, have you leaned into challenging situations, have
you learned from them? And do you carry the burden
of servant leadership? So we come all the way back
then to Jeff's question was, Hey, man, I'm in sales.
I want to get out of sales? Jeff, I would say,
if you do an exercise like the one I did,
where you identify the gaps between where you are and
the things you would have to learn to move into
(06:25):
and be good at a role and something else. If
the only way to fill that gap for you is
through school, I would say, go to school. If you
can fill those gaps with side hustle, by taking on
other projects or finding somebody to take a bet on
you and put you into a new role. Personally, I'd
try that because it saves you two years, saves you
the high investment cost of your MBA, and honestly, there
(06:48):
is echoing effort sentiments. There is no better way to
learn than by doing it, and there's no greater asset
in your career than all the time you take engaging
with people in these challenging situations and life learning from them.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Who's next?
Speaker 7 (07:02):
Hi, This is Maria from New York and my question
is for Everett. Everett, I love marketing, and I'm trying
to decide if it's the best way to a senior
leadership role is through the brand marketing path or the
growth marketing path. I'm not like a creative genius or anything,
but I love great brands. So any advice from a
(07:22):
former CMO like he would be really helpful.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Ever, take that one away.
Speaker 4 (07:27):
Yeah, that's that's actually a great question. So interestingly enough,
you look at my career, it's kind of split a
little bit half and half. Earlier in my careers, especially
at early stage startups, like growth was super important, like
being like a data driven, growth minded performance marketer, and
so like the early days in which I was doing marketing,
(07:48):
I was really focused on performance marketing, SEO life cycle marketing,
and really focused on growth channels. But as I looked around,
like Mike made this point of like, you know, if
you want to get to CEO, you want to get
to CMO. Like looking at the profiles, what I realized
was that a lot of the senior leaders in marketing
and cmos were brand creative content people you know that
(08:13):
were also like analytically sound, but a lot of them
came from more of a brand and creative background when
I looked across many of the cmos that I was
seeing across companies, and I think it's because the skill
sets of growth aren't necessarily always tied to maybe the
best people managers or understanding the brand at a large scale,
(08:37):
like they you know, the person that is really good
at CEO or the person that's really good at you know,
performance marketing might not be able to think about the
brand in a way that's needed for senior leadership roles,
but also may not be the person that is equipped
to deal with lots of people. Because the secret to
(08:59):
leadership in getting to the senior leadership roles is you're
doing less of the actual work itself. It's a lot
of you know, talent management, hiring the right people, recruiting,
managing egos, and making the right decisions. And so for me,
I saw that I needed to equit myself with more brand,
creative and content skills, especially on the brand side, because
(09:23):
I felt like I could get the right growth people
underneath me to do those types of things.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
You definitely have to be competent at all of the
functions within marketing, including as ever noted, leadership. You have
to be a good manager, but you're going to have
to be extraordinary at one of them if you want
to be an executive leading that function. And Maria, you
know my advice for what it's worth is you're most
likely to be extraordinary at whichever one of these gets
(09:52):
you most excited.
Speaker 6 (10:06):
Hi, Mike, this is June. I wanted to ask you
something because the founder of our company has recently started
telling everyone that we have to become growth hackers in
order to grow our audience and stand business. The problem
is that everyone is afraid to ask him what exactly
growth hacking is. Can you please explain this and tell
me how I can learn it?
Speaker 1 (10:27):
Well? I picked this question out of the hat because
you were here ever? Tell all right, you know, the
majority of the folks listening to this podcast today aren't marketers,
but they hear all these terms like help us, help
us get our heads around what is the job?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (10:43):
It take and and then for June, what's growth hacking?
Speaker 4 (10:47):
Yeah? So funny enough. I don't know if you knew
this about me, Mike, but I actually co founded growthhackers
dot com with Sean Ellis. I know everything about you
coined the term growth hacking, and it comes down to
when it comes down to growth hacking. You know, when
you think about growth hacking, it's really was a way
(11:07):
for startups that were emerging in silicon value that didn't
have big budgets to strategically come up with hacks to
accelerate growth.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
So one of the classic examples was Craigslist. Airbnb used
to list all of their listings on craigslists. Seems creepy now,
but it worked out for them. But when you really
break what growth hacking down is, it's just really smart
analytically driven marketing. It's like being creative understanding there's a
(11:38):
problem to solve to get scale, understanding that you know,
budget may be a restraint or manpower may be a restraint,
but being creative and innovative with your marketing, but also
making sure that you're data driven and that you're keeping
yourself honest through that data. That's really what it all
comes down to, and that's what marketing is. Market is
(12:00):
trying to solve complex problems, to get scale and do
things that are engaging to people. And so you could
put fancy titles around it like growth hacking and etc.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Etc. But all it is is just great innovative marketing.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Perfect answer, Thank you. I would also I would note
for you June, when you hear questions like this from
leadership or just when you approach your job, it's always
good to ask yourself what is my leadership team really
worried about? The founder of your company is not really
worried about growth hacking. He's worried about growing users and
growing revenue.
Speaker 3 (12:33):
All right.
Speaker 1 (12:34):
So Philip, who says he's followed you ever on social
media for a long time, like many people do, he
has a good one for you.
Speaker 5 (12:43):
Hi, my name is Philip, and I have a question
about social media. So, Everett, you have more followers than
a lot of cmos and CEOs at some of the
biggest companies in the world. How do I grow my following?
Can you buy followers or is there some other way
to get an edge? Is it worth the effort? Thanks?
Speaker 1 (13:03):
Yeah, I been wanting to ask him this question for years. Everett,
how do we all get more followers?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (13:11):
You know, I was very lucky early on because one,
I grew a lot of my following during a time
where it was a lot easier to grow faster on
the social media networks. Also, I kind of cheated because
I created a software called pop Social, which was an
automation tool that helped me grow my following greatly over
(13:34):
the course of a few years. With that being said,
what I've learned most recently is on LinkedIn, because LinkedIn
is a channel that I hadn't used a lot, and
if you look at my LinkedIn following, I have like
twenty some thousand followers, but it pales in comparison to
most of my channels. But what I realized was a
(13:56):
few key things about LinkedIn. One is having a unique
perspective or voice that you can give, and I've seen
that not only on LinkedIn, being you know, a young CEO,
being in a position that I am and having a
very unique view and take on the world and the
(14:17):
take on business and being able to be vocal about it.
And so when you're thinking about growing your social media,
think about what is your superpower? What is the thing
that makes you special and makes you stand out? Like,
I know, I can't just sit there and like take
selfies all day and grow super fast, but I do
know if I'm giving out very solid business advice or
(14:37):
being able to be vulnerable like a lot of execs
aren't willing to do. That was kind of my sweet
spot and it helped me grow on other social media platforms,
and I see how it's helped me grow pretty fast
on LinkedIn. Number two is just like consistently studying best practices,
the algorithm and what's going on. You know, if you're
(14:58):
using Instagram or using the these other channels, you need
to know what's actually driving engagement right now on a
lot of channels, on a lot of social media platforms,
it's video, it's reals, it's tiktoks. All of that is video, video, video, video.
So you can create all the static content that you want,
but if you're not creating engaging videos, then it doesn't matter.
(15:20):
And so again number one finding your unique perspective in
voice and talent on social media, and number two really
studying what is the best practices. And number three is
something I don't even do well, but it's like, you know, velocity,
like continuing to post, being consistent all the time, posting, posting, posting, posting.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Iou one other thing I'd noticed, ever, it's the best
at this. So I very little to add other than
if you follow the companies who own these social media platforms,
like read the articles about them or listen to their
earnings calls, they're telling you without telling you directly, how
you can one of those platforms. So there was a
moment where everything Google cared about was mobile web because
(16:06):
they were competing with Apple and they were worried all
the traffic would go to apps. Well, if you really
want a great SEO on your website, the answer was right,
there have an awesome mobile optimized website. If you listen
to the earnings calls for Meta, all they are asked
by their analysts is what about TikTok? What about TikTok?
So where do you think the algorithm on Instagram is
(16:26):
being tuned up?
Speaker 7 (16:27):
Now?
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Is being tuned up to reward everyone who puts content
like TikTok content, which is short form videos on Instagram.
So pay attention to the game at the top level
where the money's made, and you'll know how the game's
going to be played where the followers come.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Yep, absolutely all right.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
This next one I love. This is a product question.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Hi, Mike, This is Amanda. So I love both of
your company's products, the design, the utility, all of it.
It's so hard to make a product or a feature
that really stands out. So I was wondering what advice
do you have for people trying to build really truly
great apps.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
You know, I'll take the first bite at this, and
then Everett, there's something I really want to talk with
you about. My last company was called The Not and
the new team came in at the nodded like twenty
and thirteen, and at the time the company was very
much a web one point zero content and display advertising business.
And the new team came in and we had this idea,
(17:26):
which was, all these people are planning their weddings. That
Not helped people plan weddings, and what do they really need? Well,
like the luckiest twenty percent of people have the money
to pay a wedding planner. The wedding planner like takes
all the problems away from your wedding. The other eighty
percent had to do it themselves. And it's overwhelming and
it's expensive and it's intimidating. And we're like, what if
(17:47):
we use what if we build software that will be
as good as a wedding planner for every person in America?
Give everybody that joy? And we honestly did not know
how to make money with it. We're like, I don't
know you charge for it? You just keep running advertising?
Do you build a marketplace, run a We had all
these you know, hypotheticals, but we're like, first, let's build
an awesome product. And we had to rebuild the technology
(18:09):
stack and the team and all of it. But building
the awesome product started with saying, what is a really
special thing I can do for someone? What is a
human a human journey, a human problem that we can
solve with technology or help solve with technology. And once
you do that, the business will follow. Everett, you and
I were in a meeting together and we were talking
(18:31):
about the Artsy product. And now for those of you
who aren't art collectors, arts is an amazing way to
collect art. The products come a long way in the
three years Evert and I worked together. Everett had a
complaint about the product. Do you remember you told the
team a quote by Gucci Man, Yes, and then you
explained what was deficiting the product.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Please tell us it didn't have a sauce.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
The quote and tell us what you meant, because it
was so on the money.
Speaker 4 (18:58):
Yeah, it's it's the sol is that special thing. It's
that special thing that makes you know if a person
has a sauce, you know, you can't you know, you
can't be born with the sauce. You gotta, you gotta,
you gotta, you gotta have that sauce. You got to
acquire that sauce. And you know Artsy, you know, for
as long as it had been around, and it was
(19:19):
such an amazing app and in company, it didn't have
the sauce. It didn't have that thing that was going
to be engaging and bringing people back every single day
with that must have experience. And I love what you've
been able to do at Artsy because we've you guys,
and while I was there, we completely change that experience
on the app.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
So Gucci min says, a man must have the sauce,
but a man can get lost in the sauce. Now,
we never got into what does it mean to be
lost in the sauce? Because I've got so much sauce
now in my new app, is there a risk?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
Yeah, well you can get you can get lost. You
can get lost in the sauce.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Because is once you have that level of swagger or
start to get that success, you got to.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
Continue to remain You got to continue.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
To understand that like that has to continue to develop
and you got to continue to get better.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
So you can't get lost in a sauce.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
Now, I love Kickstarter. Tell me what's the sauce and
Kickstarter or what's the sauce that it needs?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
The sauce that Kickstarter needs right now is very similar
to artsy right, where it's like when people wanted and
needed to buy art, they were coming to Arcy. That
was the number one place that they were coming, right,
But what about engaging them on a consistent basis and
finding ways to engage them on a more regular basis,
(20:42):
Because here's the thing. If someone's being engaged on a
regular basis, they're going to buy more art.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Hunger.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
Yes, absolutely so Kickstarter. It's so funny. I talked to
Mike all the time and I'm like, I'm running your
playbook in so many ways, because I understand that for
Kickstarter to become sick sucessful, it can be this ephemeral
experience where like, hey, your buddy Joe has a new
e bike and you go and you pledge to that,
and then you don't use Kickstarter for two years. We
need to create experiences where people are going to be
(21:12):
engaged and find it interesting to engage their niche interest.
The same way at arts we knew if you were
into black figurative art or photography, we needed to create
personalized experiences in the content and the things that you
wanted to see to see to make people more engaged.
And that's the sauce that Kickstarter is missing. And then
I'm currently working on is creating engaging content and personalized experiences,
(21:36):
machine learning all of that to make sure that every
time you land on Kickstarter, you're seeing the things that
you're going to most likely be interested in, and find
a way to continue to engage people back onto the
app so they can support more people.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I love it. Next, you've got Eileen, who is an
HR professional in Bentonville.
Speaker 6 (21:55):
Hey, Very, I'm excited to see that your company was
experimenting with a four day work week recommend it.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I knew, Mike every Why don't you go first?
Speaker 4 (22:05):
All, I'll go first. So this is my first time
experiencing anything like a four day work week, and I
really really know the importance of work life balance, and
I do love that Kickstarter values work life balance. But
I also understand the importance of making certain sacrifices when
(22:28):
you're in the trenches and trying to get to a
certain place. And so it's been interesting balancing that right, balancing,
you know, a four day work week, where it becomes
more difficult to fit all your meetings and everything that
you need to do in one week into four days,
and it can be a little bit limiting. But also
we've seen the highest retention ever at Kickstarter since I
(22:50):
started five months ago. Not one single person has quit.
People are overall a lot happier, but there still remains
to be seen if that is the right move for
Kickstarter long term.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Everybody's got to manage their own sort of work in
life and all that stuff. But one thing I'd encourage
and encourage anyone who has this question on their mind
to take a look at is if you're hoping to
do your job less, is it the right job for you?
If you wake up and you're thinking, boy, thank goodness,
the four days are over, so now I don't have
(23:25):
to do that for the next three. Did you find
the thing that you really want to build and give
yourself the gift on that fifth day when you're not working,
maybe a Kickstarter or another company practicing this trying this out,
like open up a blank notebook and just start writing down,
like what are the things you want to build and
(23:45):
create in your in your life? And it might be
it might be community, it might be family, It might
be a product you want to build, It might be
a team you want to build, a mission, a service.
But when you find that thing, you are going to
be so motivated. Then no one's ever going to have
to tell you when to work, and you're never going
to have to ask someone when do you have to work.
(24:07):
You're going to use the precious minutes in your life
to build the things that you're proud of with the
people who you love doing it with. And that might
be work, and it might be community. And it might
be church. You'll figure out what those things are for you.
But if you're asking the question how do I do
what I'm doing less, I just would really encourage you
to also ask the question what do I wish I
(24:29):
was doing? Instead?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Great response?
Speaker 1 (24:43):
All right, we have Douglas in Brooklyn. I like this one.
Speaker 8 (24:46):
Seeing a company ran by a CEO who happens to
be a minority is worth congratulating. So first I want
to congratulate you. Now that you have made it to
the top. How will you ensure that other people who
look like you have the opportunities to reach the chop
as well?
Speaker 4 (25:03):
Diversity and helping others is something that's extremely important to me.
That's why I'm at Kickstarter. That's why I was at
Artsy to support artists and so actively mentoring others, giving
people opportunities. I'm right now really strategically thinking about how
I can bring in diverse leaders into Kickstarter or place
(25:25):
them or help place them in other companies. And the
first time I speak to anybody that's looking to get to,
you know, the C suite or leadership level is I
asked them what is it that you want? Like, what
is the path that you want and have you strategically
thought about what it's going to take to get there
and ultimately is that the thing that's going to make
(25:46):
you happy? And so what I would challenge you to
challenge you to do is think about strategically what it
is that you want out of life. Are you prepared
to sacrifice and get there? And if so, there's plenty
of people like myself that provide mentorship, guidance and opportunities
(26:08):
for people from diverse backgrounds looking to get a leg up.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
What should more companies be doing to be a better
place for people who are black, people of color, for
people who aren't represented on boards and in c suites
enough today? And then how do we lift up more
of those people into those senior positions.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yeah, that's a great question. I think Number one is
you're never going to be able to make the right
choices if you're not willing to open yourself up to
more diverse hires and get those perspectives. And if you
don't have that diversity in the leadership suite, then you
need to be able to reach out to others who
(26:50):
are in those positions. If you see someone like myself
and others reach out for guidance, reach out for consultation.
We love to get paid, So if you want to
pay us for to pick our brain.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
We'll love that too.
Speaker 4 (27:03):
But I think it's really really important to understand that
you have to make these decisions with the insight of
someone that actually understands these backgrounds and these experiences and
understanding Like I was talking to someone recently and they
were talking about a package that they wanted to give
to someone, and they couldn't understand why this person didn't
(27:25):
want to take more equity, right, And the person was,
you know, prioritizing cash, And I said, listen, this is
a young black man who doesn't come for much, doesn't
have the ability to take the same risks as someone
who may come from a privileged background and may want
more equity and less cash.
Speaker 2 (27:46):
Right.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
So depending on someone's perspective in their life experience, they
may have different things that they need to take care of,
and so understanding those things is so so important. And
at the time that person was couldn't believe that person
didn't want more equity and wanted to optimize for cash.
But it's different experiences coming from where we come from,
(28:06):
and so it's important to really challenge yourself to understand that,
but also to lean on others who actually understand that.
And also and ultimately what you want to do is
actually have that in your suite, c suite, in leadership
positions at your company.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I think we are going to make business podcast history
with this next question. So let's hear it.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Hey, this is Jessica from New York.
Speaker 7 (28:30):
You guys have both worked in the art market and
collect art, and I, personally, I have always wanted to
start collecting, so I was wondering if you could offer
up any advice on how to get started.
Speaker 6 (28:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
I told you the last one. It's going to be
a fun one.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
You want to take this one first.
Speaker 1 (28:47):
I want you to take this one first because I've
seen your collection.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Uh not to be a homer here, but like you know,
still to this day when people ask me, I talk
about the talk about the Artsy app because it is
one of the best ways to learn and educate yourself.
We have so much evergreen content, or you all have
so much evergreen content about.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
On the Gangways.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
It's our app, and so you know, I think the
ability to explore and learn about different artists and kind
of figure out what your tastes are is super important,
but more importantly is to one build relationships. Build relationships
with different collectors and people who know things in a space,
(29:32):
whether it's curators, artists, collectors, et cetera, et cetera, and
build relationships with galeries. They're the gatekeepers in a lot
of ways for the artists that you want, and so
it's important to build those relationships. It's a relationship driven
business because there's only so many art pieces by an
artists in any given year, and so it's important to
(29:54):
have strong relationships there. Number two is like, go see
a bunch of art, like, go see a lot out
of it, and make sure that you're figuring out what
you like and not what other people are telling you
that you like. One of the things I was really
impressed by you, Mike, was you know, early on, like
your advisor might say this or that, and you were like, no,
(30:15):
but I like this and I like that, And I
think that's amazing trying to figure out or figure out your.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Own taste and what you want.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
And lastly, the thing that I would say is set
a realistic budget. Set a realistic budget of what you
can do, and I think that's super important because it
can get addictive and get a little out of control sometimes.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Yeah, I would say for our listeners there is I
did not collect art before I was at arts, and
I learned having friends like Everett and others who were
in the game. I really learned the art world, the
art market, and got to know a bunch of artists.
It's an absolute joy. You not only bring something into
(30:59):
your home and into your life that's going to give
you endorphins and you don't make you happy every time
you walk by it, you also get to be a
patron to a working artist who's trying to create a
career around telling their story and bringing their art to
the world. It's important and it feels good. So my
suggestion to everyone is collect art and evert And I
(31:21):
always joke you only regret the paintings you don't buy.
So if you see something and you love it and
it's in your budget, like, you're never ever going to
wish that you hadn't. And I will note because I
love this so much, you slide into my DMS, you
tell me your budget, you tell me three artists you like,
I'll send you a link. I'll take carry you.
Speaker 2 (31:40):
That's dope. I love that, my friends.
Speaker 1 (31:46):
I hope you enjoyed the interview with Everett. I thought
it was awesome sitting down with Everett talking about marketing,
career path and all of it. You know, as I
reflect on our chat, it strikes me as a lot
of people ask what is the path to CEO? I
have to tell you not a lot of people get
there by accident. And I think you heard it in
(32:07):
our conversation with Everett today. This is someone who's had
a plan, who's understood his gaps and the areas in
which he's strong and where he needs to develop, and
has laid out a plan to get from where he
started to the CEO of a very exciting company today.
And i'd encourage all of you as you're thinking about
that path for yourself, whether it's to CEO, CFO, see anything,
(32:28):
whatever you see in the future for you, and if
it's not in business, if it's politics, if it's writing,
whatever it is, be deliberate, execute a deliberate path to
the impact you want to have with your career and
the place where you want to end up. We also
talked about some marketing stuff. You know, marketing can be
(32:49):
buzzworthy and what I loved about our conversation today is ever.
It brought it back to people say growth hacking. What
they're really saying is find clever ways to reach your
audience and get them to come to your product without
spending a lot of money. So that's it, everybody. I
hope you enjoyed it. I did too, and we'll see
you all next week. Don't forget can follow me online.
You can hit me up anytime questions feedback. I love
(33:11):
to hear it at Mike steib on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn,
And if you want to get your question on the
air with us, call us two one three four one
nine five nine six. Maybe you'll be on the next
pod again that number one two one three four one
nine oh five nine six. Your questions and curiosity drive
(33:33):
this podcast. I hope I hear from you. I want
to thank Jen, Meg, Jada, Matt and the whole team
at Blue Duck Media for pulling this all together, Dylan
and Christopher at iHeart, and Ben and the team at
William Morris Endeavor for all their support. I want to
thank Bayyid who's here in the studio with us and
made all the magic. Office Hours is a production of
(33:53):
Blue Duck Media and distributed by our Heart Radio. Have
a great day, guys. I hope you see you next week.
Host
Mike Steib
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