My husband REFUSED to play Barbie dolls with our son! | Reddit Stories ft. Daniel Ahearn, LMFT

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00:12 r/AITAH - My (33 y/o f) husband (43 y/o m) doesn't like our son playing with "girly" toys?
29:21 r/BORUpdates - My daughter keeps going out, and I don't know what to do about it

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, this is Sam.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
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we got.

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Some delicious, juicy stories coming up.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
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Speaker 3 (00:12):
My husband refused to play Barbie Dolls with our son.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
That's really uncool, man, I should probably do that.

Speaker 3 (00:18):
And there is a trigger warning for emotional abuse. Ohp says.
This is my first time posting on Reddit, and I
need advice regarding a situation that feels weird. My thirty
three female little one five male has been wanting to
buy Barbie's and a baby doll for the last few weeks.
The daycare he goes to before and after school has
these things and he enjoys playing with them and wanted

(00:39):
some of his own. I'm of the belief that there's
nothing wrong with boys playing with stereotypically a girly toys,
just like there's nothing wrong with girls playing with stereotypically
boy toys such as hot wheels. I thought my husband
forty three mail and I were on the same page
about this. By the way, this comes from Worry Bird
Sheet and if you want to submit your own stories.
Go to the r slash Okay, story time, separate it.

(01:00):
I'm Sophia.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
Hi, I'm Daniel, and.

Speaker 4 (01:04):
Daniel would you like to introduce yourself?

Speaker 5 (01:06):
Yes, sure, Daniel, don't be scared to project here cool.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
My name's Daniel. I'm a psychotherapist. I live in Los
Angeles and my focus is on attachment repair. I work
a lot with adolescents and I see people in private practice.
And I'm a big student of Buddhist psychology.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
And he's here to give some advice, advice, advise me,
just talk about some feedback and we're gonna get.

Speaker 4 (01:29):
Into the story.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yesterday, we finally got the chance to get to the
store so he could get what he wanted, and our
little one was ecstatic. He used his own chore money
to get a Barbie car when she was most excited
about a boy Barbie and a girl Barbie. This was
great and I was very involved in helping him pick
them out. Dad, however, was very much not despite my

(01:52):
trying to include him. He hung back, didn't engage at all,
and when others came into the aisle, he would leave entirely.
He was acting like he was embarrassed to be seen
picking out these items.

Speaker 4 (02:03):
They're just dolls.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
On our way out of the store, I told him,
you know, people might not even assume right away that
he's even buying them for himself. What if we were
buying stuff for a little girl's birthday or something. I
said this to try and figure out how he was
feeling and where his head was at. He's very much
someone who feels like people are watching and judging him
at all times when he's out in public. He didn't
really respond to the question, just got in and we

(02:27):
went home. After the store. Everything seemed fine. Dad was
playing with our five year old and his cars. Then
our son brought the baby doll over and tried to
engage my husband with it. Habi pulled back from play
and told him no, he didn't want to play, and
playtime was over. I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
Maybe he just needed a break. Habby as a very

(02:48):
low playtime meter as it is, and has admitted that
his patience when it comes to our son is something
he needs to work on. I assumed he'd reached his
limit as far as playing in general. When ope, he's
giving him a lot of grace She's like, maybe could
be this. Yeah, that's fine. Children could be a lot.
I totally get it. Then last night I was getting

(03:09):
our little one ready for bed, and because using the
baby doll to get him down was working so well.

Speaker 4 (03:14):
Show your baby how good you brush your teeth? We
were on a roll.

Speaker 3 (03:18):
Dad came in for good night kisses and our son
usually doesn't let him leave unless he's gotten at least three,
so I was trying to help dad by moving things along.
I was like, okay, son, time for dad to go.
Show your baby doll. How good you say good night
to daddy?

Speaker 4 (03:32):
And he did.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Then Dad turned to leave and said good night son.
Our son said, Dad, say good night to my baby,
and Hubby paused and very firmly said good night son
and then left.

Speaker 4 (03:45):
Do you have a lot of.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Like parents that you know or have you ever had
this experience where the parents are like, we don't want
you know we have these very gender defined roles.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
I think people struggle with it for sure. I mean,
this is the first time I'm hearing this story, right,
I would say, what a missed opportunity to show up
and connect with your child and to help your child
understand and explore the world and thinking about how the
father must have such a fragile sense of his own masculinity. Absolutely,
and what an epic bummer. Yeah to like miss this opportunity,

(04:19):
And it's cool that maybe the family could talk about
it and explore it and come to understand that if
you're not supporting your child in discovering the world with them,
they'll go to other people. You have a real precious
opportunity to engage, not in the way that necessarily you
always want to, but in helping the child explore and
discover what has meaning to them sously.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
Because he's a parent, So it's like, you have this
opportunity to be like, you have a baby, You're my baby.

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Right, this is your child like dog getting the games.

Speaker 4 (04:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (04:49):
So I asked him after the fact, does his having
barbies and a baby doll bother you or something? Because
you completely ignored him when he asked you to say
good night to his baby and you were completely unengaged
at the store. He said, it doesn't bother me, but
I'm not going to interact with it. I said, well,
you say goodnight to his other guys, stuffed animals and

(05:09):
et cetera.

Speaker 4 (05:10):
Why is it.

Speaker 3 (05:11):
Different, and he replied, actually, I don't say good night
to stuffed animals anymore, which I'm not even sure is true,
because I witnessed him doing so in the last week.
He chose today He's like, I stopped tonight.

Speaker 4 (05:22):
That's it.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Let me be honest with you. Okay, I don't Oh,
this is him. I don't give a rat's rear. And
what my son plays with, if it's something he enjoys,
then that's all I need to know. My son seems
most interested in having little people. He can drive around
in a car and with the baby. He says he
gets to pretend to be daddy.

Speaker 4 (05:41):
Which was so sweet.

Speaker 3 (05:42):
Oh yeah, I mean that's what I was kind of
what I was saying of, like, he sees himself as like, oh,
I get to be daddy with the baby and daddy.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
You know, he's acting like a caregiver, and to have
it so rebuked by his father is such a missed opportunity.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Absolutely, I honestly thought my husband was of the same mind.
So I'm blown away a little by this attitude because
gender norms and our beliefs surrounding them are something we've
talked about prior to having kids. Am I crazy for
feeling like this is a weird thing to be playing
perfectly fine with your child when it's cars and then
the second the baby doll comes out you disengage entirely.

(06:18):
For context, we've been together for ten years, and as stated,
this is something we've talked about before we had a child.
And there are some comments, but do you have any
more thoughts about this?

Speaker 2 (06:28):
I mean, I think it. Yeah, it's just kind of
what we said, Like, I'm so I would be so curious,
like again, trying to view this as a psychotherapist, I'd
be really curious about this father's sense of gender and
masculinity and why he feels so threatened.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
And what maybe like what his childhood father and his child.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I mean these things are intern transgenerational. But really
also just when your son or your daughter is bidding
for a connection, meet that connection, to rebuke it and
shut it down. The message isn't that dolls are bad.
Connecting is bad.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Absolutely, And it seems also like OPI kind of mentioned
briefly that he was already having trouble connecting with Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
So I feel like that's so painful.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
It's even yeah, even further, you know, further creating this
this divide.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Between totally yeah, I mean it sucks, yeah, totally not great.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (07:20):
So my advice for this statu is, like, maybe we
should connect with let's focus not on the baby doll
and whether or not it's gendered, but like, let's focus
on spending time with your son.

Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (07:32):
But there are some comments. Comment one says, I'd be
more long term worried that your husband isn't prepared to
unconditionally love your child no matter what choices he makes.
Trying to control what he plays with by designating them
as appropriate for his gender is just the tip of
the iceberg. You may have talked about it, but either
he may have told you what you wanted to hear,

(07:53):
or he was over confident that it wouldn't happen to him.
Comment two says, yeah, that's super weird. Your husband acting
like touching a barbie will provoke his man card or something.
Your kid's just playing and learning how to nurture, literally
pretending to be a dad. That's awesome, not something to
shut down. He really needs to unpack why a doll
makes him so uncomfortable, because that's his issue, not your son's.

(08:17):
Common three says, You're not crazy at all. Your husband's
reaction is definitely rooted in outdated gender norms, and it's
okay to feel weird about that. Your son wanting a
doll and Barbie's is completely normal. It shows empathy, imagination,
and creativity. The fact that he said he gets to
pretend to be daddy is actually really sweet and shows
healthy emotional development, and Opie responds, this also shows that

(08:39):
the kid looks up to his dad so much so
that he sees him as a role model and wants
to emulate him. Imitation is the highest form of flattery
and all that the dad should be touched that his
son sees him in a nurturing and loving manner. I
actually don't think this is from Opie, but responding to
op so, Op's husband needs to knock off his behavior
and start showing acceptance so his son can emulate only

(09:01):
good traits, and common Force says, I'm going to go
a step further than some of the other commoners. I
think your son playing family with his dolls and trying
to engage his dad with them is modeling behavior he
wants to see and is not seeing.

Speaker 4 (09:14):
Ooh deep deep, It's like dad, I just want your love.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Look at me loving this baby totally.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, tell his dad to put that in his pipe
and smoke it. There's nothing girly about his emphasis on
being the daddy and enjoying driving the dolls around. That
sounds boyish to me. Also sounds nurturing and helpful, which
should be gender neutral. If I were in your shoes,
I'd get him some male action figures too, to see
if that helps keep the peace while Hubs gets counseling.

(09:41):
The fact is, no amount of disapproval from Hubs or
anyone else will force a gay or trans kid to
magically become Otherwise, it'll just damage that kid. People are
born that way and there is an update. But yeah,
I feel like a lot of those commentaries were touching
on what we said.

Speaker 2 (09:57):
Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, what's the.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
Oh, well we're gonna get into so what's gonna happen?

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Yeah, what will happen next?

Speaker 4 (10:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Yeah, I mean it's just unfortunate, right.

Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Obviously, if if we're talking about this as a psychotherapist
and the family was here, there would be a lot
that we could explore between the husband and the wife
and the relationship with the child and who wanted the child,
and what does it mean to be a father? What
does it mean to have a son? All these things,
But it seems like a very reactive and a very
strong yes response.

Speaker 3 (10:27):
And I mean am somewhat confused about because Op said multiple.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
Times that he agreed.

Speaker 2 (10:32):
Yeah, I'd be curious what that means.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Yeah, So like I'm wondering what exactly he thought he
was agreeing to.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
Right, right, what does agreement mean?

Speaker 4 (10:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (10:39):
And if like that one commenter said, if you just
didn't think it would happen to him, But yeah, you
can't really control what kids want to play with.

Speaker 2 (10:47):
They just kind of point you can, right, yes, forcefully,
you can really restrict their exploration, and that can affect
the way they discover meaning, and it can affect the
way they choose relationships, and then ultimately it affects their
interesting I mean back to the parents and sharing their life.
So I mean, go for it, bro, But in the end,
all you're doing is really damaging that child's relationship to himself, yeah,

(11:08):
and then relationship with the world.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
And I'm also wondering because I grew up with a brother,
as we were talking about, and I mean I did
play with a lot of like dolls and Littlest Pet
shops and all of that stuff. Yeah, but my brother
also had like legos and cars and dinosaurs and stuff,
so I was also playing with those things.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Were just playing.

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah, I was just playing.

Speaker 3 (11:27):
And so I'm kind of wondering if they have another
child and that child is a girl.

Speaker 4 (11:33):
You know, are the kids in the cars play with
each other?

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Right?

Speaker 4 (11:37):
Yeah, just wondering about that. But there is an update. Okay,
here we go, which now we'll get into.

Speaker 3 (11:42):
Okay, my husband and I spoke some more this morning.
As I noticed him doing and again our son asking
him to play with his new toys and my husband
ignoring him completely, I asked him to step into our
room for a bit so we could have the conversation
away from our son. I started by asking him what
specifically he doesn't like about playing with the toys our
son purchased yesterday. He said that he wanted to make

(12:02):
sure that our son bought them because he wanted to
and not because it's making other people happy. Feels a
little hypocritical, This is weird.

Speaker 4 (12:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Basically, he insinuated that myself or some other outside influence
convinced him that he wanted the toys when he might
not have otherwise. This is not the case. I told him,
if our son didn't want the toys, then he wouldn't
have been asking for them for the last three weeks.
Our son is very strong willed and knows what he
does and does not like, and very rarely does things

(12:31):
just because it would make someone else happy.

Speaker 4 (12:33):
He's five.

Speaker 5 (12:34):
Cool.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
I reminded him of all of this. But there is
a little bit left to this story. Any final thoughts
on this story?

Speaker 2 (12:41):
I mean, I like this kid.

Speaker 3 (12:42):
Yeah, he knows what I feel like he's stunnard like
his dad.

Speaker 4 (12:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
I mean he's also like, you know, he's standing on
his business, like he knows what he wants, he's going
to keep going. I think that's right.

Speaker 4 (12:53):
And I feel like when you're like, I've babysat a
lot of kids.

Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yeah, so I kind of know like kids from that
end of the thing, and I feel like five years old,
you you know a little bit about who, you.

Speaker 4 (13:03):
Know what you like? Yes, of course, and you know
pretty strong willed at five.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
I mean, can I share something? So from the attachment perspective,
the language we use is an internal working model, and
your internal working model is developed between the ages of
zero to three and then in late childhood three to five. Actually,
up until adolescence is when that internal model starts to
meet with the world and you're somewhat baked in. So

(13:28):
when you're dealing with a five year old, they're responding
to the matrix of care they receive zero to three,
and the parents are actually seeing, oh, this is a
care I gave. This is what I'm getting back. So
they're often reflective of one another's.

Speaker 3 (13:43):
So it's really interesting that they're parenting. He's like, what
caused this?

Speaker 2 (13:47):
It's like, you guys might have been you guys.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
Yeah, like, good job, Yeah totally yeah, right, you did
something good.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
You built confidence.

Speaker 4 (13:54):
In the end, he.

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Admitted that this is something he needs to work on
some more and find a middle ground engaging even though
dolls and barbies are not something he enjoys playing with.
I reminded him that he's an adult and that play
is intended to cater to the child for a reason.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah, beautiful.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
I like that. She's like, it's not really about whether
or not you want to play. No, for now, that's
all the update I got. But I did touch on
the fact that if his stone walling continued, then we
would have.

Speaker 4 (14:20):
To figure out a different living situation.

Speaker 3 (14:22):
Because it wasn't healthy for our son to be continually
subjected to that. He indicated that he understood that, and
as of right now is playing Barbies with our son. Yay,
our son made him be the girl Barbie. But at
least it's better than it was, and our son is
feeling that connection again, which is what really matters.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
I don't think the son did that intentionally at all.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
That's cool. I do think that it worked out. Yeah,
that's so rad.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Yeah, forcing the dad to you know, step outside of
his comfort zone.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yeah, I'm so curious what the dad's experience became, what
we learn about himself.

Speaker 4 (14:56):
Yeah, because I think that it could be really positive.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I think I always loved I think from just like
an acting improv standpoint, I loved growing up building those
worlds and I still, you know, when I babysat kids,
I still loved creating those worlds with them. So I
think when you really allow yourself to just be free
and enjoy that.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Play, that's right.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
It's really fun.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Totally. Kids live in a state of radical amazement, and
it's so fun to participate in that really liberating. Absolutely,
but that was the end of that story.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Are we doing the questions now?

Speaker 5 (15:26):
We can do the questions now. But I know a
lot of people are coming in and tuning in and
they're asking.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Who you are?

Speaker 3 (15:31):
You are you? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (15:35):
Okay, please introduce yourself again.

Speaker 2 (15:37):
You okay. My name is Danielihern. I'm a psychotherapist in
Los Angeles. I work with attachment psychology. That's my focus,
and I have a strong lean towards Buddhist psychology and
how these things intertwine. I work a lot with adolescents,
and I work in acute treatment with adolescents, so kids
that are struggling, and then I work in private practice.

(15:59):
Is that a good answer that it's perfet.

Speaker 1 (16:00):
Answer to answer? And you appreciate you being here?

Speaker 4 (16:02):
Yeah, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
Yeah, it's fun. Thank you.

Speaker 3 (16:04):
Yeah, But we have some questions from our okay, fam okay.
Marnas says, I, thirty five male, grew up with a
very strict father, and it's made me constantly afraid of
doing something wrong. Now that I'm starting a new job,
that fear shows up all the time. I overthink everything
and feel like I'm too slow or disappointing people. I've
tried exercising and doing things I enjoy, but when it's

(16:27):
time to focus on important tasks like work, I zone
out and start feeling like I'm doing everything wrong. I
end up distracting myself instead of finishing what needs to
be done. Please help me. I can't afford professional help
right now. My question is how can I stop feeling
this way and finally trust myself more?

Speaker 2 (16:43):
And do you have any Yeah?

Speaker 4 (16:44):
And I you know if you need to read it again?

Speaker 2 (16:46):
No, no, no, no, it's okay. I was really I'm really
thinking about that.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
So fundamentally, this is a good example of an attachment response.

Speaker 5 (16:55):
Right.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
If in early childhood we learn that love and attention
is performance driven, right, it's conditional. If I do this,
I'll receive love, I'll receive attention. We internalize that, and
then later in life, in our relationships or in our work,
we can start to view things that happen as threats.
Threats store our sense of self, threatstore our success, and

(17:17):
it can shut us down. Right. We can have different responses.
We can flee or fight or fond, or we can
kind of use any of the efforts to deal with that. Stress, right.
So what I would not advise, but I would consider
is for this person to really take a pause before
anything that you're doing at work or maybe after, and evaluate,

(17:37):
am I responding from the present moment or am I
responding to this old story that if I do something wrong,
I'll be rebuked or abandoned. And then after you do
any task, really acknowledge out loud, like oh I did
this thing, and celebrate your accomplishments. Moreover, I would find
people that you trust, maybe colleagues or friends, to talk
about that, like, Hey, I really struggle with feeling that

(18:00):
if I don't do this right, I'm going to fail.
And I don't even know where that feeling comes from
her maybe it comes from childhood. By just externalizing that
and building relationships with people, the term we use is coregulate.
You know, when you and I met a little while ago,
we didn't know each other, and then we kind of
got in a groove right, and we started to have
this experience of being in harmony together. It's one of
the human beings superpowers. So if you can take that

(18:23):
stress and find a way to tap into your friends
or colleagues and share it and coregulate it. I think
you're going to be okay. And I think also it's
really beautiful that you reached out because that is an
indication of your willingness to grow.

Speaker 4 (18:36):
Yeah, that's a great answer.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Okay, thank you.

Speaker 1 (18:41):
It's like he does this for a living.

Speaker 4 (18:43):
Is your job?

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Question two from Nina Nilsen. Nina Nilsen says, me and
my best friend, both twenty nine female of sixteen years,
are basically codependent. I'm there almost every day helping her
with her son, my godson around seven.

Speaker 4 (18:59):
Or we're in group activities together or with her family.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
I spend Christmas there and everything, and I have a
hard time feeling like I deserve a space in a
group due to having to fight for my spot in
my family's growing up. My parents aren't together and I
had evil stepparents on both sides.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
My best friend is.

Speaker 3 (19:15):
Dating someone new, and while we have no romantic feelings,
her being in a relationship does change things, things such
as who does what in all of our lives, but
especially my godson's life. I go to parent teacher conferences
and doctor's appointments and everything where I can be helpful
or if he or his parents want me to go
his father as fifty fifty custody and they co parent

(19:35):
very well and we are all close friends. I am
terrified of no longer having the space in my godson's
family and being replaced by someone new. I worry that
a new partner would dislike how active in their everyday
life I am.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
And if I would even be able to speak.

Speaker 3 (19:49):
My opinion on what I think regarding my godson, because
as much as we all joke that he's my child too,
he isn't, not legally and not as any kind of parent,
even stepparents. Would be not rational thinking I would lose
this family I found, But my parents have both chosen
new people over me. They even sat quietly while I
was thrown out because the step parent demanded more in

(20:09):
rent than I could possibly pay them. I was eighteen,
but both parents were still legally responsible for my cost
of living. My best friend came to pick me up
and I lived there for a bit while our mothers
talked and sorted things out as they were becoming friends
thanks to us. My friend and I are very open
with communicating, and their new date seems like a really
good person. I've met them once so far, and I

(20:30):
wish I could stop having this extreme reaction when I
truly am happy for them, and the more people that
love and care for my godson the better. My question is,
how can someone work on whatever this is, codependence, anxious attachment.
I am in talk therapy mostly just as a check
in while waiting for the psychiatrist to have time with
me twice a month. But I realize this needs more

(20:52):
work than that, so that I don't ruin my friendships
now or in the future. Thank you for taking the
time for us, and okay, fam good job. Man.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
It's like I can feel that so much and so deeply,
and without knowing too much more just knowing what we know.
It does sound like an anxious attachment response. Then, in
the quantity of information right that we're getting, I really
I want you to understand exactly what I'm saying. I
need to tell you all this information. And what's so
interesting about attachment I think Carly and I were talking

(21:22):
about neuroscience is in early childhood, going back to that
internal working model, the brain develops a certain way. So
when we start to feel that anxiety and we're sharing
a lot of information, it's a sign that we're actually
in draft right, we feel like if I don't share
everything with you, you're going to leave me. And then
this person so clearly explained that feeling of being left.

(21:45):
What I would do about it? You know? I guess
the other thing I'm curious about is in talk therapy.
Do you notice that talk therapy helps or do you
leave feeling actually more spun out right? Because sometimes talking
won't really help if you have this, Yeah, if you
have so much anxiety, yeah, you're just kind of caught
in this experience of sharing and sharing and sharing. And
the language that we use is like there's a self

(22:07):
and there's an other, And when I lose myself with
my anxiety, I collapse into other and it's so painful
because I can't find the me in it. What I
would advise, choosing my words carefully is to pause and
actually notice how valuable you are and check the evidence
to offer yourself a lot of compassion. Sounds like you've

(22:28):
been through a lot in early childhood. Understand that you
do have a good friendship and you are so invaluable
to this God's son, and find a way to pause
and reflect, notice that you're okay in this moment. You
can actually kind of visualize the person that you want
to be now rather than feeling trapped by the version
you have of this older version of yourself. And don't

(22:49):
be afraid to go out and explore other relationships. I mean,
you found one. You sound like a rad person. I'm
sure the more you go out and explore, the more
you can kind of strengthen your social network and help
yourself feel okay. But this is such a good example
of how that anxiety can feel so overwhelming. Yeah, and
you can collapse.

Speaker 4 (23:07):
Yeah, another great answer.

Speaker 2 (23:09):
Is that a good answer?

Speaker 5 (23:10):
No, Yeah, amazing answer. A lot of people are saying
we're being seen right now. Kitin literally just said he's
going to make me cry.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
At the gym.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
And you have that like one very close friendship that
you're codependent on.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
I think it can be like hard to Oh my god,
it's so terrorizing, like what if I lose this person,
I'm going to end. My world's going to end. And
that's a really young, young part, right, that's a zero
to three part. So always, oh my god, always so
much compassion for yourself. You know a big thing about attachment.

(23:42):
It's bandied around a lot. People throw the language around.
I'm anxious, So I'm dismissive. But these are strategies to survive,
Like you needed to develop them to survive to make
it through childhood. And it's so cool that we live
in a time now where you can repair those and
make improvements. But it sounds like you're well on.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Your Yeah, And we have a third question. I think
this might be the final question from Caitlin von Kampen,
who also might be here. Kaitlin says, after being in
a relationship for four years with a self absorbed person
and not wanting to fall victim to that again, what
are the biggest red flags to look out for in
a partner? So? I don't know, Yeah, I don't know.
That's not quite focused on childhood.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
I mean this is when I hear red flags the
thing we're talking about dating, jait Okay, cool, here's some
dating feedback. When you go on a date. This is
for literally everyone on earth. Don't worry about if they
like you. Take that off the menu. Really focus in
your body. Do I feel safe around this person? Do
I feel like I can be myself around this person?

(24:43):
So much of our culture puts the pressure on getting
people to like you and click the like button. And
appreciate you that you lose yourself and then you find
yourself vulnerable to people that have narcissistic tendencies. Don't paint
red flags white. The body is an incredible somatic instrument.
It's really wise. And if you can find your breath, yeah,
in your gut right the vagus nerve. We could talk

(25:05):
about all this wild stuff, but if you just pause
and breathe and notice, like, do I feel safe? Is
this something I want to keep pursuing, I think you'll
be on good footing.

Speaker 4 (25:16):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
I think I saw this thing about like when you
feel very connected to your partner, you're more.

Speaker 4 (25:21):
Likely to like feel sleepy. I don't know if that's.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Necessarily true or relax. Yeah, yeah, I mean.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
It kind of makes sense. If you talk about like
being comfortable with someone.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I think so.

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Feel that like anxiety response. It's like a safety mechanism
from you know.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
I mean you have to. I mean there's actually there's
a couple of weeks to look at this. Really Like
some of us, if we're so overwhelmed, we just like
not out.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
Yeah right, yeah, so I guess there's the opposite.

Speaker 2 (25:47):
Yeah, right, you can fond, but there is that experience
of like, oh my god, I feel so safe with you,
like I just want to like I finally feel like
I can rest. What a beautiful experience.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
And there actually is one more question from my twenty
six female mother fifty nine female won't stop asking about
who I'm texting, what I'm doing, or if I have
certain social media when I'm on my phone? Question, how
can I establish the boundary that it's my business about
what I'm doing on my phone and not hers without
being rute?

Speaker 2 (26:17):
I mean wild? Right? Yeah, I think the idea for
parents is to really be available to actually may say
it this way, it's our responsibility to hold our boundaries
and that can be hard. But one cool thing about
attachment is it's highly collaborative and we develop what's called metacognition,
which is insight. So the way that would work in

(26:38):
this relationship is like, hey, mom, I'm noticing that you're
asking me a lot of questions about my phone, and
I'm wondering what's going on, And really try and put
yourself in her position and let her see that you're
thinking about that, and it might wake her up to like,
oh my god, that's so whack. What am I doing
it may not. You have an opportunity to have your boundaries,
and this is for everyone. It's my responsibility to hold

(27:00):
my boundaries. It's not as important to me that you
like my boundaries. You don't have to. They're my boundaries.
And if I can have coherent boundaries for myself that
feel safe and protected and supported, then I can see
the kind of world that I want to engage in.
Kind of going back to the dating thing, right, I
have to find meaning and set boundaries in my own life.
And if people don't want to hang out for it,

(27:22):
you know what I mean, it's like, yeah, and this
goes from mom. I mean, like you're in a relationship
with your mother. It will persevere, but you're allowed to
adjust that. And I imagine, although it wasn't stated that
this misattunement between the mother and the child started a
long time ago and this is the latest example of it.
I don't think this is like totally new behavior. Fall

(27:42):
into patterns, that's right, you know, but you're allowed to
establish a sense of privacy and boundaries and it's actually appropriate.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Yeah, I feel like.

Speaker 3 (27:51):
I mean, with my parents, even to a certain extent,
there's when you're like a parent yeah, I'm just assuming nothing.

Speaker 2 (27:58):
I'm a parent.

Speaker 3 (27:59):
Yeah, yeah, you have to kind of there is less
privacy when you have like a minor child.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, you have to be involved.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Yeah, you have to be involved to keep them safe.

Speaker 3 (28:08):
And then when they become an adult, it's like there's
that transition period where you're like, oh, I actually can't
know everything about your life.

Speaker 4 (28:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Yeah, and it's really a beautiful experience. And you know,
parents can have grief around that, like, oh, my child's
not a child and that's cool, but like deal with
your grief. Like part of the beauty of parenting is
this ongoing process of loving someone so much and then
letting them be in the world and let them be
free and to support that. So and I think parents

(28:35):
can fall into patterns and it's totally acceptable to be like, Yo,
what are you doing mom.

Speaker 4 (28:40):
Let's let's pause on that. But those are all the questions.
Thank you so much for answering. Yeah, sure, they I
think they've been saying they appreciate it.

Speaker 5 (28:48):
You get some like real chords for some people who
are like just like I wasn't even they din't even
submit questions, but wow, they are wowed right now.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
So thank you. So much.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
I think a lot of those.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
Us, those people are able to relate with.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Yeah, just they're relatable, you know, their boundary issues or
stuff about how we relate to you know, this is
the thing and attachment. It's about the development of a
relationship to myself and the world. So relationships and exploration
and those are things we can all relate to.

Speaker 4 (29:16):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 4 (29:18):
And we have another story that we're really into.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
Okay, let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (29:20):
Yeah, I'm scared to let my eighteen year old daughter
have her freedom.

Speaker 2 (29:25):
Whoa, whoa. I mean, this is kind of the opposite
of the mom getting on the phone.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
Trigger warning emotional abuse. I am a forty nine year
old mother with an eighteen year old daughter in community college.
I am also very introverted and a little anxious. I
understand my daughter needs a social life, but I just
don't feel right about it. By the way, this comes
from worry Bird. She and if you want to submit
your own stories, go to the r slash Okay storytime
subvert it.

Speaker 4 (29:49):
I'm Sophia.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
My name is Daniel Ay Hearn. I'm a psychotherapist in
Los Angeles.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
When I'm keon and.

Speaker 3 (29:54):
Oh P says this year she started going out with
more friends. She was sad that she stood her teen
years in her room, but she was.

Speaker 4 (30:02):
Safe that way.

Speaker 3 (30:03):
She downloaded Life three sixty for me wow, and bought
pepper spray and her phone is always on. That is
interesting to me, having been a teenager. I never my
parents never did that. But I'm wondering if that is
coming from her mom's anxieties.

Speaker 2 (30:20):
Oh, this is right, Yeah, I mean our nervous systems
mirror each other. So going back to the Barbie Daddy, Yeah, right,
Like if you're sort of noticing that shut downness and
cut offness, you may start to see that in your child. Yeah,
either in concert exactly the same or the exact opposite.

Speaker 3 (30:37):
Yes, So this could like yeah, yeah, rebels versus yes,
or someone who falls in line.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
You know, thinking about that anxiety. If I'm not allowed
to experiment and explore and fall down and pick myself
up and develop a sense of self mastery or autonomy,
I'm going to be frightened of the world. And being
frightened in the world is not a skillful way to engage,
because you tend to find yourself in harming conditions for sure.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
John here Og host we're going to get back to
these stories, but a quick free minute break from has
for more sponsors. She's usually at them ma all or
downtown exploring with friends. I just don't like that I
don't know what she's doing or who she's with. I
believe it's much better to stay at home so there's
no risk of anything bad happening to anyone. Sometimes she's
annoyed about it. She has a ten pm curfew. Midnight

(31:25):
is much too late, she says. She feels stifled and sheltered,
But I'm just trying to keep her safe. She gives
me weird looks when I tell her that going out
a lot isn't a good thing. Am I being irrational?
And I'm sure the relevant comments will have a lot
to say about this, But before we jump into them.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Irrational, Yeah, I mean, I'm sure there's a reason. I'm
sure if we really talk to this person, there's a
very rational, understandable, historic reason of why she feels this way.
Is it the optimal way to build trust and safety
in your child? I think this person knows no. And
I'm sure it's really painful for this person to see like, oh,

(32:02):
this isn't working and it's really painful for me, and
it's really painful for my child. And I mean, all
of that is so hard.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, and it also feels like the daughter is kind
of unlearning because you know, he said, like she downloaded
life three sixty and was very cautious, right, but now
at eighteen, is trying to unlearn those kind of fear responses.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, trying to evolve?

Speaker 1 (32:25):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (32:25):
Right?

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Isn't that what we want? We want to continue evolution
and keep going.

Speaker 5 (32:29):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
Personal poet says, let your daughter live, and op responds,
she's smart, but too trusting of people. I'm scared she'll
get into a bad situation. I'm a single mother and
I can't have the stress of her possibly getting unalived
or worse. Home is safer, and comment two says it's
normal and healthy for your daughter to go out. She's
learning to build bonds with people, exploring our beautiful world

(32:51):
and connecting.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
With her community.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
The skills she's developing will help her professionally if she
moves to a new place, and when she finds a
life partner who will have their own family and friends
who will also be in her life. What about yourself?
Do you have enough strong friendships? And do you take
enough time to explore all that's going on locally, Ope responds,
I'm just scared she'll do something stupid. Part of the
reason why she's going out is because she complained her

(33:14):
senior year that her peers babied her because she was sheltered.
She also felt bad about not hanging out with friends
much when she wasn't busy with jobs and adulthood.

Speaker 4 (33:23):
What if she.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Drinks to try and fit in she never got much
male attention. What if she sleeps with a man just
to feel affection and ends up pregnant. I'm very introverted
and quite the homebody, so I only talk to people
at work in church. I guess I'm too old for friendships.
Loll museums, sport events and the like don't really interest me.
I just shop, work, and sleep, and there isn't there's

(33:44):
smart comments, But I do kind of want to discuss
just that comment from opecause I mean, just from my
thoughts on that, I feel like you she might do
all of those things. Yeah, And I think that you
can only as a parent give your advice and prepare
them as best as you can, and then you have
to let them do it.

Speaker 5 (34:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
I mean, ideally, you let them be free in the
world and then you trust that the relationship that you
built will bring them back to share it prepares it. Yeah,
I mean that's the idea. And maybe what we're what
I'm feeling into this is that the parent feels like, oh,
I didn't do a good job, and that's really what's
freaking me out. Yeah, so trying to control that outcome,
but you can't. Really you gotta live, Yeah, you gotta trust.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
I Also, you know, like as much as this is
about the mother daughter relationship, I think it's also about
Ope feeling like she can't explore anything anymore. Oh right, Yeah,
because she said I'm too old for friendships, which I
don't think anyone is ever to find new friendships.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
So there's that fear of letting go of the It
sounds like there's some ameshment too, like the child is
not your friend. Yeah, it's to your child.

Speaker 4 (34:49):
Yeah, exactly, She's relying on her daughter.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Yeah. I think that's I mean, it's unfair.

Speaker 3 (34:55):
Yeah, and maybe some of that anxious attachment of being
like if my daughter leaves, who else do I have?

Speaker 2 (34:59):
So yeah, with the anxious attachment, right, if you're so
focused on self, then you're not being an authentic person,
and then you actually don't see the person exactly because
that you're constantly lost in this projection that you're trying
to control to reduce that fear of abandonment. Absolutely all painful.

Speaker 4 (35:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:15):
Comment three says coming from parents who had me on
a short leash in high school. The more you push
your fear on her, the more likely she will be
to engage in risky behavior. Trust your daughter. She has
friends who will look out for she has peppers pray,
and she has your number. She's got that peppers ray.
The best thing you can do is be there for
her and say that if anything happens, you're only a

(35:36):
call away, and there is an update, and we're gonna
jump into that one so you don't have to wait.

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Okay, let's get into it.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
But how do you handle your kids not liking you
when it's your fault? Says Ope, My heart broke today,
but it's much deserved. My eighteen year old daughter has
slowly stopped sharing things with me. She's scared to talk
to me. I'm short tempered and I often lecture her
out of love. But she once said, half of our converse.
Is me just talking at her?

Speaker 4 (36:02):
She acts a.

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Bit like a know it all sometimes. She once said,
I tell her she's too naive, Yet I gave her
a ten pm curfew. I get pissy when she hangs
out with her friends, and didn't let her walk outside
her neighborhood until she was sixteen. I'm just trying to
keep her safe. One thing I do understand is that
I made her incapable of handling confrontation. She was sassy
as a kid, but as she grew older, I wondered

(36:24):
why she couldn't stand up for herself. Then I remembered
how much I blew up at her or was sarcastic
with her without allowing her to get angry at me back.
She had OCD. We both recognized the symptoms, and she
begged for therapy, but I let my denial get the
best of me until her junior year of high school.
I apologized for it this year, but I'm not sure
if she truly forgives me. And again, this is obviously

(36:46):
can't diagnose, but I'm wondering if maybe Obousy has OCD.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
Yeah, I mean it would be hard to diagnose him.
I want to do that, but I would say that
this refrain of like I was trying to keep her safe.
I was trying to keep her safe. I don't think
is the whole story. Yeah, you're trying to control the outcome.
That's not safety, no right. And you're trying to be controlling,
that's not safety. You have to let people live and
discover meaning. I mean, I have a lot of thoughts

(37:12):
that we could share another time about OCD from the
attachment perspective, but fundamentally, if I could share this, I
think this would be helpful. Rupture is expected in relationships,
in any kind of relationship, especially parental relationships, especially with teenagers.
Repair is optional and so beautiful for this person to recognize, Oh,
my kid is so sick of me. You're allowed to

(37:35):
voice that, say, Hey, you know what, I think I
was really unskillful and controlling and I don't want to
be that way. And to model the fact to a
teen or someone younger that you can make a mistake
as an adult and then change your ways changes their
version of the world. Right, So don't be afraid to
take accountability and to share that showing vulnerability actually build

(37:57):
strength in relationships and will help your a lot.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
And Opie hasn't mentioned a father in like a husband
or anything. Yeah, So I'm wondering if this is I
think I have a friend who has her mom is
a single mother, and I think and often has a
very contentious relationship because you're the only people there.

Speaker 4 (38:18):
Yeah, you're the only ones in that house.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Yeah, And so I think maybe that could be playing
into this of like they're the only people that have.

Speaker 2 (38:27):
And there's like parentification and spousification. A lot of things
can happen when you're relying too much on this younger
person and that stuff.

Speaker 3 (38:35):
I apologize for it this year, but I'm not sure
if she truly forgives me. Today she told me she
wants to go down to a UNI down in Georgia
when she's done with community college. I have a sinking
feeling it's to do with me. I'm offended.

Speaker 4 (38:48):
I do a lot for her, but I understand.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Mom's how do you deal with this if it's your
fault your kids don't like you?

Speaker 4 (38:54):
And there are some relevant comments.

Speaker 3 (38:56):
Uh Ducky's mama says, you're offended that the daughter you
talk down to and denied mental health treatment wants to
move as far away as possible. This right here, tells
me you don't want to work on yourself. You just
want to make her magically appreciate and love you. If
you want to fix this, you need to fix your actions. Yeah,
this is the redic comments Yeah, I'll tell you how
I feel. Listen to her without butting in how wrong

(39:18):
she is. Apologize again for the lack of treatment and
mean it. Tell her you support her wherever she wants
to go for college. Stop blowing up and start being supportive,
and if that's difficult, get into therapy. It's going to
take years and a lot of work to fix this relationship.
Redditor for says, thank you. My father is very similar
to Ope into this day. It's all about how much
he's done for me, as if providing material necessities can

(39:42):
somehow absolve them of the very real consequences of their actions,
and OP responds, you're right, I guess offended was the
wrong word. I know I did wrong and it hurts.
She's upset, but I acknowledge and understand why she feels
the way she does. I let my pride and control
get the best of me. I'll look into go going
into therapy, and OP also responds to a deleted comment

(40:03):
I'm an immigrant, hence why I seem foreign quote unquote,
my child was born here in the US. And another
editor says, the long winded lectures are just you punishing her.
Turn a fifteen second issue into a thirty minute punishment
talk where you release your anger on her and feel
vindicated for setting things right. But you're just a bully
and an ale op says, I guess it makes sense

(40:26):
why she got mad when I'd lecture her. I was
raised in a way where children must listen to when
adults talk to them and to get upsets.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
Is this no at all behavior?

Speaker 3 (40:36):
Granted I didn't always correct her in the nicest way.
For example, it's important to save your money versus my usual.
If I spent money like you, I'd be homeless. I
need a work on my communication. Another editor says this
comment is so very telling. You don't get it.

Speaker 4 (40:50):
Even with all of.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
The personal experiences being shared about others who live with
a parent like you, you think that a working on communication
is going to do anything. This has nothing to do
with communication. Simple question, yes or no?

Speaker 4 (41:01):
Do you want to.

Speaker 3 (41:02):
Be involved with any grandchildren's lives? If yes, go to therapy.
It's that simple. Another redditor says, why does your adult
child have a curfew? Honestly, I kind of disagree with
that comment because my parents, personally for me, I had
when I was living in their house. Yeah, so I
see that one. I don't think it's as cut and

(41:23):
dry for that. OP says, we live in a very
safe area, but you can never be too sheriff who
or what's out there. Another person says, she's an adult,
I'm curious what would have been the consequences if she
missed her curfew? OP says, I wouldn't be happy and
I'd probably not let her go out the next time
her friends invite around. She's an adult, but a very
young one, and she still lives under my roof, so

(41:44):
she should respect the rules. And there is an update.
But there are a lot of comments that we just
got there.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
So do you have any thoughts on any of those.

Speaker 2 (41:52):
No, I'm just listening, really. I mean, I think, well,
we don't know, we're not in this family system, so
we're kind of hearing, and we're all we all have
different ideas. It just sounds really hard. Yeah, And I
think what we're hearing and the context of the control
is the tip of the iceberg, and I'd be so
curious how it started. And it sounds like it's so
painful for everyone in this family system.

Speaker 3 (42:14):
Yeah, And I mean, like again, like OPI says she
was an immigrant. Don't have more knowledge than that, but
I think sometimes we read stories where you have like
a child who has to take on the role as
translator or as just like cultural yeah, you know, and
so that kind of goes into parentification. And there was
I think going back to like the beginning comments where
they were talking about her moving away.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
From school and op being having a hard time.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah, having a hard time with that and thinking that
it was kind of against her. I think a lot
of times space can help those relationships, Yeah, yeah, because
they've been so ameshed.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Totally so pressurized.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
For sure, like maybe you can actually rebuild your relationship
if she goes away.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
Well you might understand it with some distance. And yet
to your point, I mean, culture is very powerful. We
don't know the culture from which this is arising and
reviewing it from our culture, and you know, the privilege
of just like reading a little bit and having an opinion.
We don't know. But I mean, ultimately it's pretty clear
there's a lot of care here and a desire to
understand and do better.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Yeah, and I feel I do think the comments are
being somewhat harsh because I think it's clear that Ope
is looking for advice and it does want to improve,
just doesn't quite know how.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah. I also imagine that it's hard for people to
hear about someone being so controlling, Yes, because that really
that's really activating for us. A lot of us can
relate to people trying to be controlling and.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
Having our relationships with parents percent to extend. Everyone has
like arguments and stuff with parents and stuff.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
Again, conflict, rupture, definite repair is really the beautiful opportunity.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Yeah, but there is an update.

Speaker 5 (43:50):
Say, yes, I can relate to not Op. But I
guess Ope's child because my mom was an immigrant and
the way she was raised was very harsh, right curfew,
I need to know where you're going, Oh, you're going
out with your friends, even if you're one minute late,
you're grounded or like you're in trouble kind of thing.

(44:11):
It was very very intense because I would compare just
like Whitney, very intense right there. But I would compare
and contrast my you know, relationship with my mom, my
friend's relationships who their parents were white, and it was
they're like what they.

Speaker 1 (44:26):
Would scratch their head kind of thing.

Speaker 5 (44:28):
So it hearing this is very crazy coming from a
parent like this were like, I'm an immigrant and this
is how I was raised and you know, I'm gonna
do this to my child kind of things.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
So and maybe also her relationship with mental health and
like therapy and culture and yeah, with culture and stuff,
and how that because she says she didn't believe it,
she denied it.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Yeah, could I ask you a question, of course, in
noticing that in this moment, how is your relationship to
those boundaries as you've gotten older changed? Do they so?

Speaker 1 (44:57):
Like my mom and I are so cool now.

Speaker 5 (44:59):
But again, it was just I think once she realized
I could take care of myself once I'm an adult,
it was it wasn't like an instant, but it was
a very quick, gradual transition from like parent to like
now we're you know, we understand.

Speaker 1 (45:14):
Each other in the world. Yeah, exactly so.

Speaker 5 (45:18):
And I think it was also kind of seeing it
how because she was talking to the other parents and
they were like, oh, no, this is okay, we do
this kind of thing. So and she was like, I
don't know, is that okay?

Speaker 1 (45:28):
Why are you asking me?

Speaker 5 (45:29):
I'm not the parent kind of thing when I was
a teenager or you know, thirteen year old saying mom,
my friends can do this or my friends can do that,
and she said no, no, and then it changed over time,
but it was I think it was like a culture
shock or you know, for her.

Speaker 2 (45:45):
So totally yeah, yeah, culture is powerful.

Speaker 4 (45:48):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Hey it's sam og host. We're gonet back to these
delectable stories. But here's three minutes of ads from our
sponsors to help support the show.

Speaker 4 (45:56):
But we're going to get into this update.

Speaker 3 (45:57):
So Ope asks to start, why are my daughter's so different?

Speaker 4 (46:01):
Yet they were raised the same way? Oh, I have
two daughters. This is yeah, this is this is new information.

Speaker 3 (46:07):
One eighteen one, twenty eight. They both were goodie two
shoes as kids, and both were raised by me, both
live at home, and both grew up religious. Both were
also major people pleasers and aren't mentally ill as far
as I know.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
Is this the same?

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Because didn't we find out that she had OCD? Yet
the younger doesn't really talk to me. She's a bit
more wild. She goes out with friends, often wore a
fake nose piercing a bit, and isn't Christian anymore. She
gets more and more assertive and confident the older she gets.
The older text and calls me all the time. She
still asks me for permission for things. If she's not
working she has a career, she usually stays in her

(46:42):
room laying down. She's introverted and complacent. Why is this? Yeah,
so it seems like this is the still the.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
Same plot, diickens.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Yeah, yeah, so we have We have two kids that
I guess had had very different responses to that upbringing,
which is kind of what you're saying of, like falling
into that anxiety or like pushing rebel. Yeah, throw the
dough says, Having read your many other posts where even
you admit how awful you were to her, I can't
be surprised in the slightest you clearly resent her being

(47:10):
different than you, whereas you're older, seems more like you
or you've browbeaten her enough to be complacent. But wow,
shocking two humans are different than each other. Also wild
for wanting to have friends and not sit at home
being yelled at and lectured by her mom. For wanting
to not be sheltered or starved from the world. I'm
beginning to think you're either trolling or really really ubstuse

(47:31):
I truly feel so sorry for both of your children.
Oh p says, I don't resent her. I'm just kind
of laughing about how they were both so similar in
their youth but are now two different people. And yes,
I need a work on the damage I caused to her.
My oldest daughter even agrees that the youngest is trying
too hard to be like her peers by going out
and such. She's not in danger, but part of me
wishes she was still the quiet kid she was pre

(47:53):
the VID. At least she's learning to speak up for herself.
Throw the Dough says, you're not laughing, You're actively still
trying to make her this complacent, scare the world stay
at home person. You very clearly expressed how much you
resent her and actively try to keep her home because
God forbid she makes friends. And yes, it's clear you
wish she was still the person she was before she
finally pushed back. Also actively denying her help for her

(48:14):
OCD is a monster move to then also say no
mental illness, but not surprising because of the way you
treated it. I truly hope she does escape for college
and learn that this is so far from normal. Your
parents should love you and support you and want you
to be an adult with friends and a life of
your own. A parent shouldn't browbeat you into complacency and
make you fear leaving the house. There is a little

(48:34):
bit more, but yeah, we've got some commenters who are
clearly feeling.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
You're feeling this.

Speaker 3 (48:39):
Yeah, fact that, yes, absolutely somewhat relatable to them. It
seems Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I've seen
necessarily exactly what they're seeing from this comment or from
this op.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
What's your take it?

Speaker 3 (48:51):
It feels like Opee hasn't necessarily said like you can't leave,
you're not allowed.

Speaker 4 (48:57):
Just seems cautious.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Yeah, maybe, yeah, confusing, maybe don't know what to do.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
Yeah, And I think just the fact that she's coming
on here and asking for and also the person who
was like, you're a troll, I've seen so much. I mean,
like even to an extent my you know, my mom
was scared and cautious about my my brother and I
and stuff.

Speaker 2 (49:15):
So which is also appropriate. Yes, right, Yeah, you're paying attention.
The world is terrifying.

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Yes, especially now, especially you know, for kids being in
school with like violence happening in school and stuff.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
That's right.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
I think it's it's there to be cautious, especially you know,
maybe Op again coming from it as an immigrant and
seeing this violence if she's in the US. I think
that's very fair, and I think it's I think it's
a little bit harsh to be like, why would you
ever do this?

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Right?

Speaker 4 (49:43):
Why say this.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
Understanding is important? We're just trying to understand.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
And I think like offering Op that understanding while also
saying this is maybe not the right way to.

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Go about it, which I think OP knows.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
Yes, right exactly. Opis coming on here to say.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
That, like's not working out and it's really hard and
I don't understand it, and there's a cultural gap and
I want to do right by my kids and they're
having different experiences. I mean, that's pretty brave.

Speaker 4 (50:06):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
I think Op's at least on the right track. Yeah,
still has a lot left.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
To learn, clearly, we're all learning together.

Speaker 3 (50:15):
And I think that, like, I mean, we have a
lot of stories where people go no contact and stuff
with the parents or family members. Yeah, and I think
this is behavior that you kind of get very clear
consequences with.

Speaker 4 (50:27):
It's like either you.

Speaker 3 (50:28):
Change and you get that relationship with your daughter or
you don't change, yeah, and you loser.

Speaker 5 (50:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
What a waste to miss that opportunity to grow. And
I guess again going back to that I did it wrong,
Like you can talk about that. Yeah, you can find
a way to voice that and build that relationship stronger.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
Right, I think being honest.

Speaker 2 (50:44):
As a kid gets older, they come to a deeper
understanding of like, oh, maybe this is where they're coming from.
Sounds like everyone in this family system could benefit from
more life experience, absolutely, and then come back and kind
of share what's happening with them.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
Yeah. I think we've all been there too.

Speaker 5 (50:58):
When you think when you're a teenager everything, Yeah, so
back then you were like, oh my gosh, like this
is ridiculous, Like I know better than this.

Speaker 1 (51:09):
You dwell back on it and you're like, oh man,
you know it's.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Real and it's funny from my perspective, Like Sam and
I had very different experiences with because my parents were strict,
but Sam was very much He was much more adventurous
growing out, like he would climb buildings and like, you know,
get into trouble in those ways and stuff. And I
was very much like I hung out with my friends

(51:32):
and I didn't go to parties. I was like I
self kind of imposed regulations for myself. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:38):
True.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Or did you feel like you did you feel like
when you were younger you could go climb buildings but
you didn't want to or what was.

Speaker 4 (51:43):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (51:44):
My mom was very adamant about don't climb the buildings,
but I didn't. I don't think that she would have
prevented me from going to.

Speaker 4 (51:51):
Parties or anything.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Yeah, who you were, It just wasn't.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
Yeah, it wasn't who I was.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
And I think Sam had a little bit maybe more
you know, do this, don't do this, because he was
doing more stuff oh uh huh, whereas I wasn't really
doing anything.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
So yeah, I didn't feel like good, I don't need
that advice. I'm not going to do it.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:07):
And I think as i've you know, become more independent
and moved out and stuff, it's finding that you know,
I've been doing more like I host more part I
don't climb buildings.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
Okay, I was going to say, you can climbing building.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
I've been climbing buildings.

Speaker 3 (52:19):
Yeah, yeah, goals, But yeah, I think what you were
kind of saying about them not having a lot of
life experience, I think it's it's interesting because you have
an eighteen year old, thirty something year old or twenty
eight year old something like that, yes, and then forty
nine or something, yeah, somewhere along those lines, and they
all seem to have a similar amount.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
Of life experience limited.

Speaker 4 (52:40):
Yeah, limited.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
It's problematic. Yeah, And look it's hard, you know. I mean,
like your parents want to protect you, and it is
the natural response to want to push back against that,
and you have to find that sweet spot, you know,
of like the kids are trying to get in an
end zone and the parent's job is to not essentially right,
to keep them safe, but you want them to have
life experience because then there prepares them more for life

(53:02):
in the future, and it makes the whole experiences of
family richer and it's terrifying.

Speaker 4 (53:06):
Of course, someone did actually have a great point. I
do actually rock climb now.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
Oh do you really?

Speaker 4 (53:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Oh, there you go.

Speaker 4 (53:13):
Yeah, and my mom is not happy about it.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Is really do you like free climb buildings though?

Speaker 5 (53:17):
No?

Speaker 4 (53:18):
Yeah, yes, exactly. I don't tell my mom. I yeah, no,
I just I just bolder.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
But yeah, cool, we'll see. Bouldering's great.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
Another editor says, simple, your older daughter has ten extra
years of emotional abuse, and it's just that more ground down,
while your younger one is seeing what happened to her
sister and has probably internalized the lesson that she's not
going to tolerate that crap. OHP says, that's fair. I
made a lot of mistakes in my parenting. My youngest
thinks her older sister is parentified and codependent, something her

(53:46):
community college counselor told her.

Speaker 4 (53:49):
I looked up the terms, and I can't help but agree.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
She hasn't moved out out of guilt, and she feels
responsible for me.

Speaker 4 (53:56):
I've created a monster.

Speaker 3 (53:57):
As for the youngest, I and my older daughter are
scared she's gonna act wild for the sake of fitting
in and getting in trouble. Another editor says, so, not
only are you rude to your younger daughter to her face,
you also trash talker behind her back with her older sister.
I don't know if that was entirely trash talking. Yeah,
the teenage years were exactly the time both of your
children should have been learning to socialize with their peers,

(54:18):
to develop their critical thinking skills for the real world,
along with fitting in or not and making good choices
about all those things. You denied both of them that opportunity.
How exactly do you expect either of your children to
function in the world when you won't give them a
chance to even experience the world in the first place.
What exactly is your plant? Both of them go to
a job, come home, do nothing, and live with you

(54:39):
until you pass away. You expect them to never have friends,
never develop romantic partnerships, not have children of their own,
not have hobbies they enjoy, to never travel or explore
the world. That's not worrying about your kids. That's downright cruelty.
And that is the end of the story. I think
maybe something Ope could think about is the fact that
she is an immigrant and did travel and did make
that very big.

Speaker 4 (54:59):
You know, lead transition.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
I mean, it's hard to know what you don't know,
so operating from that context of trying to make sense
here in the States, and it's really wild. It must
be really hard.

Speaker 4 (55:10):
Yeah, final thoughts.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Yeah about OP I mean or four OP? I mean, no,
I think well. Fundamentally, my approach is you need to
collaborate with your children on their life. That is the
opportunity of the parent to show up and when they stumble,
you help pick them up. And you're allowed to have
boundaries and they're allowed to not like it, and at
a certain point you have to remove those boundaries and

(55:34):
let them be free. That's just kind of the way
it goes. That's healthy attachment and that's healthy development. And
it's totally hard, and don't ask your children to take
care of you and how hard it is. That's not
fair to them and it won't work. Yeah, those are
my final thoughts.

Speaker 4 (55:50):
Final answer that was the quiz.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
Thank you and Daniel, this is our time. But again,
what a great guest. Yeah, we appreciate your time and
then answering all those questions and also your expertise.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Yeah, thanks for having me you guys, what a cool
thing you're doing. Thanks to the community for having me
on and I'll see again.

Speaker 4 (56:06):
Yeah, you did great.

Speaker 1 (56:08):
Do you wanna?

Speaker 4 (56:08):
Do you wanna one more time?

Speaker 1 (56:09):
I'm telling me.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Who you are.

Speaker 2 (56:11):
My name is Daniel Ahern. I'm a psychotherapist in Los Angeles.
I focus on attachment repair and mindfulness. I'm easy to find.
I don't know how you tag people or whatever.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
But you know we can.

Speaker 3 (56:23):
We can absolutely If you have like an Instagram or
like anything that you would like us to tag, just
like keono, and we'll tag that in the.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
Chat okay and in the video. Cool rad Thanks everybody

Speaker 4 (56:32):
Course, thank you so much for coming.