My Mother-in-Law wants to STEAL my daughter! | Reddit Stories | EP2350 - ok storytime

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, this is Sam, this is John. We're the ancient
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Speaker 2 (00:05):
Have some ancient wisdom in the stories coming up.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
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our sponsors for the next two minutes or so.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
My mother in law wants to steal my daughter.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
That is crazy and.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Trigger warning for mental health crisis stogging, self unliving threats. Ooh,
my stepmother in law or soon to be mother in
law is generally a lovely woman, kind, helpful and sweet,
but lord, recently I really don't like her background. Father
in law married, is it stepmother in law? We'll find

(00:43):
out when dear husband was a teenager, so they've been
together for quite a while now. She had infertility issues
and after countless failed IVF attempts, found out they couldn't
have children. I think one of the benefits of marrying
father in law was that she would inherit two sons.
Even though they were close to being legal adults. She
knew one day they would have children and she'd be

(01:05):
a grandmother. By the way, this comes from panther purple
and if you want to smit your own stories, go
to the art slashowcase story type some read it.

Speaker 4 (01:12):
I'm Sophia and we have a guest here.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, and we have a guest here.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm doctor Tracy, you're and.

Speaker 4 (01:19):
I'm Keon, And I'm gonna do a little introduction for
doctor Tracy dog Leash, a clinical psychologist, author, and relationship
expert who spent over fifteen years fifteen years guys helping
couples untangle the messi dynamics between marriage and family through
a ground breaking vault method which we'll probably get into later.
She teaches partners how to set boundaries, break toxic cycles,

(01:40):
and build healthier connections within laws. Doctor Tracy is here
today to give us insights on the dynamics of mother
in laws and narrative, and sharing her launch of her
new book, You Your Husband and his Mother. Please welcome
doctor Tracy.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
And can we go to the wine because we have
the book right here.

Speaker 4 (01:58):
We'll do a little book.

Speaker 3 (02:00):
It'll be real, it's beautiful. This is not just a
book for mothers in law. This is about you creating
healthy relationships with extended family members. Feeling solid as a team,
and I am saying to people, this is a great
gift for a wedding, It's a great baby shower gift
because we know that people struggle with boundaries and we
want to set healthy family expectations and standards.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Yeah, but oh, Pie says, now, this brings me to
my issue. Before I gave birth to to your daughter,
I knew an influx of annoying stuff was coming my
way because there hadn't been a girl born into the
family for a long time. But I definitely didn't think
it would be this bad. When I was pregnant with daughter,
my stepmother in law bought me four bin bags worth

(02:45):
of clothes, despite my specific request for no one to
buy me clothes because a she'll grow out of them
in a matter of weeks, so it's a waste of
money and be my in laws have a tendency to
buy clothes that say things like Grandma's number one girl
and Daddy's girl.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Oh but not her, nothing about the mother, Nothing about
the mother. And that is just this low blow.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
When I told my stepmother in law that I wouldn't
have people wait in the delivery room this time because
of the storm that was the birth of my first child.
She seemed understanding. She said, oh, okay, I understand Will
makes sense what you thought she understood. But father in
law later told me she cried herself to sleep every
night for a week. I have a good relationship with

(03:31):
my stepmother in law, so this hurt me to hear,
but at the same time, it felt like a guilt trip.

Speaker 3 (03:38):
I was about to ask Lolo, so her father in
law told her that, yes, I need to pause right
here and just emphasize how vulnerable mothers are during the
postpartum period. Absolutely not the first two weeks, not six weeks,
I say twelve months, twelve months. And we also want
to recognize that the generational levels don't flow downward. Yeah,

(04:02):
that's not the kids's responsibilities. That's for you and your
partner to work out exactly. Or you go to your peer,
a sibling, a therapist, or you go to your own
mother and talk to her.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Yeah. I'm wondering why the father in law came to
ope that. Yeah, I mean, we could.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Do all kinds of hypotheses around this. We won't know.
But my guess is that he doesn't know what to
do with it, and so he thinks he's solving the
problem by then going to his daughter in law and
saying she was really struggling with this. Yes, but then
that turns a whole this is the whole triangle of
the book. You're creating a triangle then instead of him
being the supportive partner and saying, of course you're having

(04:38):
a hard time, I understand this. Yeah, let's look at
this from our daughter in law's perspective. We're not going
to put our feelings onto her. We're going to be
responsible for us. We'll be together, and then when they're
ready to invite us in, then we'll come in.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah. And it seems like the mother in law is
putting a lot of I don't know, emphasis on this birth,
maybe being she's like she wants to live vicariously through
it since she didn't have that.

Speaker 3 (05:04):
Experience, that projection. Yes, and it's even the when you
say what you want, I'm not going to respect it,
and I know so many people say. And this is
also where the two couple partners get stuck because then
he says, well, mom had good intentions, or stepmom had
good intentions, or even the father in law saying she

(05:26):
had good intentions by buying these four bins of clothes.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
But at the end of the day, it's not respecting
what she asked.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
It's not about intention. People really have to sink into
understanding that this is about impact, and impact matters more
in deepening a relationship and honoring a connection than having
to focus on intention. I mean, we all have good intentions.
Most of us do not walk around manutulating out hurting others.
We want to be connected.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yes, oh, if he continues, I sat her down and
told her this wasn't about her, and of course she'll
be involved in my daughter's life. Just hold off for
a bit.

Speaker 3 (06:01):
I love that.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, I'm not doing it despite you. Yes, she seemed
to understand, but the past year has been difficult, to
say the least. This leads me to today a bullet
point to make it more organized. One. She constantly refers
to my daughter as variations of her precious little girl.
I walked in on her, hovering over daughter in her crib, saying,

(06:22):
you're the child I have prayed for, my little girl.
God has truly answered my prayers.

Speaker 5 (06:27):
Definitely projecting, and it's just that kind of flavoring of
enmeshment and codependency that my needs are all going to
be met by you.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
Yeah, like the prophecy child.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
A baby, and when she's two, four ten, fourteen, that's
not her job to meet her names.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
She tried to give my daughter a middle name because
I got to give daughter her first name, sir, her mother. Sorry, Yeah,
why did you get a namer? Oh?

Speaker 3 (06:58):
This woman is hurting. She's so much of her own
pain and grief and it's not her that she hasn't
dealt with it, seems no, and it's not her daughter
in law's job to fix that or to fill that hole.

Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah. The name she chose was what she picked for
the child that she miscarried. Wow, so I was very
creeped out. Probably one of the weirdest things was when
she said she's so beautiful. She got that from you.
It's a shame. I always wanted to see my features
on my child. Maybe we can say she has my eyes.

Speaker 3 (07:30):
Let's pin that one in terms of boundary statements that
we can say around that. I think that'd be really important.

Speaker 2 (07:35):
When my daughter cries, this woman turns into Usain Bolt
himself and goes to pick her up, saying, sh I'm
here now, you're okay, nothing can hurt you. The guilt trips.
I'm very reluctant about my children sleeping over at people's
houses because they're still very young. But despite this, she
constantly asks, can I have daughter over the night? I

(07:55):
give reasons, What about next week? I give reasons. Now
she makes statements like I've set up the whole nursery
and she hasn't even used it once. Hah, well, creepily
staring at me. I need some advice. I don't know
how to handle this. Sometimes I'd rather just be like
my mother in law, an upfront knucklehead, because I can
deal with that. I just don't know how to deal

(08:17):
with passive aggressiveness. Technically, she doesn't overstep my boundaries, but
she'll find loopholes or guilt trips. I get it, you
didn't get to have children. Honestly, I feel for you,
but that doesn't mean my daughter is going to be
the baby you've always wanted to have. However, she has
been there for me and is honestly a sweet person overall,

(08:37):
But ever since I've had my daughter, she has become overbearing.
Husband loves his dad and my stepmother in law, and
his dad can't bear his wife being upset. So I
know if husband and I try to talk to her
formally about it, she'll cry in guilt trip maybe not
even intentionally. I don't know how to handle weepy people.
Any advice and there is an update, but do you

(09:00):
do you have any thoughts?

Speaker 3 (09:01):
So far in the book, I outline six types of
mothers in law, and I did that after almost twenty
years of working with people, and this is I really
want people to know. This is not a diagnosis. You're
not going to go through these types and then go
to your partner for be like, haha, your mother, your
mother as I didn't use that word intentionally because it's
not helpful. And so whenever we're dealing with someone, we

(09:24):
want to understand what category of behavior are they because
then we will know how we can communicate and interact
with them. So, for example, there's a lot of martyr
victim flavoring here where I want to give and give
and give, but there's guilt attached to it or this
poor me, it's all happening to me. I never got
to have that, which more of that victim flavoring. And

(09:47):
so then when you think of who you're dealing with,
and already she's saying this woman has all of these
passive aggressive remarks. You know that it's probably not going
to be helpful to over explain yourself. And I O
piece piece two where she says, you know, I like her,
we had a good relationship, and I think there's like
this torn feeling that so many daughters in law experience

(10:08):
after having children, which is what happened to our connection,
because now you're focused all on baby.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
And I'm not even I know, I don't even exist.

Speaker 3 (10:18):
Yeah, And it is the most painful thing, Sophia, to
be in a room with someone and they not even
look at you, ask you how you're doing, get you
the water after you've just given birth.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, you're just the carrier of these kid.

Speaker 4 (10:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:32):
Yeah, and that's being reduced to that. We'll have to
come back to the piece where her husband because I'm
really because that can also really make a difference. But
then let's also acknowledge that you're entering into a system here.
And so because the stepmom's been around for a while. Yeah,
she's been around for I think since her husband's fifteen.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah, I believe so. Yeah, because they were almost right.

Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, So there's a system in place, and it's been
operating for a long time. She's an outsider and so
she's going to be more likely to recognize that system.
And I always say to daughters in law, you are
not bad for calling out a system. And so I
know for many people they'll go to their partners and say,
your mom or your stepmom, they're guilt tripping us. And

(11:17):
their husbands will say, no, what are you talking about.
That's just mom. Yeah, she's being nice, and that's so painful.
So I think that's really important.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
Yeah, and the whole stuff about her saying, oh, let's
say that your daughter has my eyes, it just feels
very obsessive.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
So at this point, I think where we tend to
go into as parents right now is we want to
control the outside so we can feel safe on the inside.
And I really want parents to feel empowered in the home,
that everything you do with yourself, your partner, and your
child is about building security. And so even if stepmother
in law is coming in and saying these things, you're

(11:56):
always going to be that secure base for your child.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Or if you're in their home and they insert some
food rules, like you you know, older rules that a
lot of parents don't follow today, are things like you
have to clear your plate before you get dessert. You
get to step in as the parent and say, actually,
I'm the parent, and that's not a rule we follow
in our family.

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
So keeping that in mind and knowing that you can
always help support and model to your child what's healthy
and what's not. So for example, I can imagine then
as baby gets older, then Grandma's going to be like, oh,
give me a big hug. I want to hug body.
Autonomy is so important.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
You're like, well, you know, we consent before we give.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
Yeah, no, sensing who this person is, she's not gonna
like that. But yeah, mom gets to say, oh, we're
not going to do hugs. She doesn't want you right now.
We believe in asking first. Yeah, and the thing here,
so two pieces. She's not going to change. Sure, and
you could go into those conversations and point out these issues,

(12:56):
but that might cause more distress. And I have a
feeling it would what seems.

Speaker 2 (12:59):
Like oh piece already kind of said what she feels
and that.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Hasn't done anything. I love what op he did in
the sense of saying like, will invite you in, will
let you know what works for us? Yes, that's beautiful.
You've already done that piece. But now here's someone who
can't see that pattern. And so here you're gonna want
to know, really what your boundaries are. Most people come

(13:22):
into my office saying they're not respecting my boundaries. And
when we dig a little bit into it, it's because
people are making requests, and requests sound like, please don't
whisper these comments into my daughter's ear. Please don't make
comments about her eyes or that kind of thing. Yeah,
it's about the other person doing something. The boundary is
what you are or are not willing to do. And

(13:44):
so then when she makes these comments, what does op
want to do? What would be empowering for her? Is
this a moment where she goes to the bathroom and
splashes her face because all my word, grab your phone,
text the group chatre be like, oh yeah, intense is it?
And she says something you go mm hmm, and then
you change the topic, like her asking can I give

(14:04):
her the middle name? Well, that's something we're deciding. Hey,
have you been following the Jays? Sorry, I know I'm
Canadian and the Jays.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
I don't know what the Blue Jays, I don't know sports. Yeah,
that's that's Keon's thing. I don't know anything. Yeah, go
Blue Jays, right, I mean there's.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
I'm not a Dodger fan, so go Blue Jay Canada.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
I'll be anybody's fan. I could be the Jays fan.

Speaker 3 (14:30):
But be ready then to go to a different conversation.
Have that prepared, because one thing we can know for
certain is that family is consistent and predictable, especially if
you're not seeing them go to therapy or do some
of this self work.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
Have those things in your tool belts yourself. Yeah, but
we have an update, so let's see if OP uses
any of your thoughts. Update. I was going to wait
until Friday when stepmother in law, father in law, brother
in law, his wife and kids came over. My naive
self thought this was a take her to the side
for a five minute chat situation. But you guys scared

(15:07):
the sense into me with your comments, so I had
to get my ducks in a row immediately. As soon
as I saw my husband in the evening, I burst
out crying. He just looked at me, shocked because I
rarely cry. So even if he didn't think the stepmother
in law situation was bad before he knew it must
be to be making me feel this way. I began
by telling him everything. It was like word vomit, and

(15:28):
I told him about the pet names, the constant holding,
the running to get her before me, the clothes, all
the stuff through my pregnancy, the nursery, the constant whispering
in daughter's ears, the photo album of daughter. She took
pictures constantly and has already filled out a massive photo album.
She has more photos than me. I told him about
the sad statements, the looks. When I'm holding my daughter,

(15:51):
she gives me the weirdest look, a combination of sadness, anger,
and confusion.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
Can I pause there for a second. I'm thinking about
how when someone else comes into your safe space and
it feels threatening, your nervous system can't tell the difference
between a true bear or an imagine bear.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
I was wondering because O. P says she has this
look of anger, sadness, and confusion. I wonder if maybe
in this instance, you are just kind of reading into
something that's not there. Not to say that you are,
but like you don't know for sure.

Speaker 3 (16:23):
You don't know. But when someone comes in with that possessiveness,
or they're knocking at your door, every day to see
the baby, or they're only talking about your child. I
had one woman tell me that her mother in law
would whisper in her ear, you're not my grandson's real family.
Oh can you imagine that is threatening? It's biologically wired

(16:44):
inside of us to protect our You know, your heart
is now walking outside of your body or lying outside
of your body.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Your caesar is a threat.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
You're going to be protective. And then I think, not
knowing what's coming next. But the other piece here that
I see happen so often is that daughters in life
law are pushed and pushed and pushed and then they explode.
But then guess who's the problem?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
Cosband, the daughter and the daughter.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Oh, because oh how could she get angry? Look at her,
she's yelling at me. I remember one client saying that
she was felt so much shame because she yelled at
her mother to get out of her house. Yeah, they're
the bad guy now there, she was labeled the problem
when all of the other m grow aggressions, those paper
cuts were being dismissed beside ignored.

Speaker 2 (17:28):
Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Seems like
this husband in the story is supportive of op which
is crazy. Yeah. I finished by reading them a few
of your comments. I highlighted what a lot of you
said that stepmother in law didn't properly handle her grief
and it has manifested into an obsession with my daughter.
Her unhealthy attachment to daughter is damaging not only to

(17:49):
daughter and DS who will grow up noticing the different
attention they get from her, but to her own mental health.
I made it clear I do genuinely have love for
stepmother law, but I'm scared of this unhealthy attachment. You
just sat there and listened. First thing he did was
hug me. And for someone who doesn't cry, lord, I
think I cried for England in that moment. He said

(18:12):
he always knew she hadn't processed her grief properly. He said,
his dad has to realize his wife is his primary
concern and she needs help, and husband's primary concern is
me and the kids. His dad needs to respect that.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
I oh that, Oh, I love that so powerful. That
is what we want partners to be doing today.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
You are your partner's partner, yes, and your kids have
their own partners.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
This isn't happening in this scenario. But what often happens
that I see is that a man is in and
not all I want to say, not always, but for
a lot of the time, a man is in this
position for the first time. Yeah, where he's having to
look at his mother or family of origin and say
what am I doing in these patterns, which is hard

(18:59):
because their decense ties to it and they're part of
the system. Yeah, And do I make mom unhappy? Or
do I turn this way and make my wife unhappy?

Speaker 2 (19:08):
And that who do you choose?

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Who do you choose? So I say to men, you
are not abandoning your family. You are now prioritizing your
chosen family, the emotions and the needs in your home.
First you have a new family unit, and then you
bring in the extended family members.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
Yeah. Absolutely, we had a whole plan to start from
a point of concern rather than attack slowly branching into
our issues, outlining our rules and boundaries clearly and firmly.
We are not to be overridden, manipulated, influenced, or stomped over.
Any breach of our boundaries would indicate that stepmother in
law doesn't respect our role as daughter and sons parents.

(19:48):
And with all violations, there are repercussions, then coming back
to concern addressing her mental health and processing her grief.
My best friend went through her own miscarriage a few
years ago and went to the therapy. She gave me
the contact info of her therapist. We would be there
for stepmother in law emotionally as well. I made it
clear to my husband that even if she agrees to

(20:08):
respect her boundaries, I still want her to go to
therapy because those issues won't go away. If she can't
inflict them on to daughter, she will only internalize them
and cause herself more in her conflict, and I am
genuinely concerned about her mental health. We had notes, we
were on the same page. The kids were sleeping, I
had calmed down. Great, I feel like everything's not going

(20:30):
to be great. I got a text from stepmother in
law saying she and father in law wanted to come
round tomorrow for dinner instead because Friday they had a
meeting at their church. My anxiety ridden mine could face
this quicker and wouldn't have to be drawn out until
the end of the week. Everything was set. I had
a husband's full support and he'd be addressing everything with
me and my stepmother in law. Is a rational woman.

(20:52):
What could go wrong?

Speaker 3 (20:55):
Oh, I mean this, Wait, when there's unprocessed grief, process trauma,
a lot could go wrong because that slowing down, that
sinking into your body, that self awareness and self reflectiveness
is not there. And if there's anything that people can
learn about relationships, know that you are having your own

(21:16):
experience just like you and I ree hear Sofia, I'm
having my own experience and you're having your experience. Yeah,
and then I'm actually experiencing you on top of that,
and that's complex to do. And so it would require
this woman to be able to say, here's what's happening
inside of me. This is really hard. I'm feeling all
of this old stuff. And then here's what I'm doing

(21:36):
to you.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, And it seems like she hasn't even processed what's
happening inside. So that's already hard. Yeah, to hear from
someone else, this is what I think is going on
with you. This is what you can no longer do
with our child. Yes, a lot of information at once.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
And it's tricky too, because I know there's such good intention,
but I also know, and I don't want to overgeneralize.
There are people in a generation who will say, what
would I talk to? What want I talk about in therapy?
Or I don't have any I don't need to go
to therapy, what would I even do? I'm not going
to say. And it is just we all have things
to say. We have to accept that others might never

(22:15):
do this work, and we can't force that. We can
find the therapist, we can research all the things, we
could research the method, go for this, do that, talk, text,
phone call, Hey, did you look up that therapist? Inevitably,
they're going to make their own choices, and you don't
get to control that.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Absolutely. You only get to control the boundaries for your
daughter and.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Your family one hundred percent. And OP really has to
sit in that. Okay, so this is what she's choosing,
and as a result of that, then what do I
want to choose? Then?

Speaker 2 (22:42):
Absolutely, But we do have an update and we're going
to find out if everything went well with that conversation.
OP starts by saying, this happened a few hours ago,
so I'm still pretty overwhelmed. I know you guys are
used to the craziness of mother in laws, sure especially,
but this level is still very much new to me.

(23:03):
As I was getting ready in the morning, my hands
were shaky and it felt like someone left a knife
in my stomach. I think my body was warning me
things were going to go down. Stepmother in law and
father in law live a thirty minute drive away. I
picked up the kids from the childminder, settle them down.
Husband comes home. Everything was set. We were planning to
have the talk after dinner. When the kids went down,

(23:25):
the door rings, husband gets it. They come in and
greet everyone. Stepmother in law spots daughter in my arms
and makes a beeline towards me. My darling, you're getting
so big.

Speaker 3 (23:36):
Come to nana and we're not going to change her
for that. Yeah, you will not change that. It's all
going to be about your response, and also to knowing
that as your daughter grows, she'll then get to decide
and she'll feel it. She'll be like, oh, Grandma, norush away.
Because that's the work of children is they're supposed to

(23:59):
individuate and differentiate, and they'll say, oh, no, get out
of my face. I don't like that. They'll feel it.
A lot of times, as parents we worry the impact
on our kids. Instead, we need to trust our own
values and what we teach our kids. Yeah, and it'll.

Speaker 2 (24:12):
Still that sense of autonomy into them. I said, actually,
can you help me in the kitchen and handed my
kid to husband. She looked taken aback, but came along.
At dinner. She spent the whole time fussing over daughter.
I told her your food is getting cold. She said,
my princess needs attention. I said, she's enjoying her food.
You should to kids get put to bed. Despite protests

(24:34):
from stepmother in law, I come down to her, saying,
panther seems very short today. I walk up and answer
before husband. Actually, stepmother in law, we've been meaning to
speak to you. All color from her face disappeared.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
Can I comment here? Hm? I'm thinking of the anxious protest? Yeah,
is that when people worry about distance and disconnection, they
reach for more. So I think of the parent holding
the eight month old and the eight month old pushes
away because that's normal. They want to go on the
floor and play at their blocks, and then mom or
dad squeeze, go oh, no, I can't let you go.

(25:09):
Or if i'm you know, my kids are ten and eight,
if I'm with my ten year old and say no,
I can't let you like you have to stay home
with me. It's this anxiety that when I feel him
pulling away, I want to be closer. Yeah, rather than
trusting our bond, trusting that I have a role here.
And if she did her own work the stepmother in law,
then she could trust that she's going to have a role.

(25:32):
And maybe that's even something too for this person. Again,
I don't know how it's ending, but to continue moving forward,
give her one small special role that she can do.
Is it feeding? Is it the bad time? Is it
story before bed? So then she feels soon and that
it's not this kind of like protesting and anxious pursuit.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
I sat next to husband, so we were across from
stepmother in law and father in law. I told her
I hope she didn't take this as an attack, as
we were greatly concerned Sin's daughter had come along. She
changed from warm grandmother to son to adopting a mother
role with daughter. We wanted to make it clear we
are daughter's parents. She started weeping. I handed over a

(26:15):
tissue and continued, good for her. Yeah, I'm glad that
you are like okay, and I recognize that you're sad,
and I'm not going to try and fix that right now,
I'm just gonna keep going.

Speaker 3 (26:24):
These are my emotions, and I'll always say to parents,
I'm having this conversation with you because you matter.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
And if we go to our core, what do we
all need? We all need to know that we're important
to the person we love, that we matter, that we're
good enough, we're worthy, and we're loved.

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
And that she's doing this. I think it's so important,
so entering hard conversations. They love and care about you.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
We have clear boundaries that she is continually crossed. I
am daughter's mother when she cries, and I am two
feet away. I don't appreciate stepmother in law rushing past
me to pick her up daughter is and hers. The
weeping got louder, and father in law looked annoyed. Please
stop referring to her as your little girl or princess.
You're her grandmother, but please understand your role. Please stop

(27:11):
pestering me for FaceTime sessions when you've just seen her.
Husban told her he could see she was upset, but
our primary concern was our children, and we were worried
about stepmother in law. She had developed an unhealthy attachment
to daughter and she needed to address the underlying issue
her grief.

Speaker 3 (27:28):
If there could be anything that someone does differently make
it smaller. Yeah, when you go into too many things,
her brain goes into overwhelmed mode and she shuts down
so she can't hear it.

Speaker 2 (27:40):
Just one issue that you're focusing on, or.

Speaker 3 (27:42):
Maybe it's not even a specific issue, but maybe it's
And this all depends on who it is, because if
we list things out, they might walk away and say,
I can't believe they've said that about me. Don't they
see I'm trying my best and how much I love her?
These are all good things. Yeah, So I wonder even
if we think about this and I talk about how
to do the boundaries in the book specifically, but if

(28:03):
we think about what is the thing that she needs
and just focusing on that rather than calling out all
of those behaviors, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
It's tricky.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
Yeah, Like at the root is like, you know, I
need to feel like I'm the parent, and there are
times where you step in really quickly. I know, here's
my reassurance. You always reassure sause it softens them. I
know how much you love this role, and I will
just put my hand on my heart here for a moment,
because I know when I do that with my clients,
they're like, why do I have to reassure this adult?

(28:35):
Why do I have to reassure my mother? That's her job, right?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Frustrating.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
If we're going to be evolved and we are self aware,
we model it to them. So you say that to them,
and then you say, moving forward, it really needs you
to slow down a little bit. Let me step in,
and I'm going to make sure I call you in
and how about this? Right? That's kind of gentle, yes,
and also too for anyone who's been in those positions

(28:58):
of just giving those boundaries and it's not going the
way you want it to and you hear me do it.
I'm not in the moment, my nervous system isn't going wild,
and I can phrase it this way and just remember
boundaries expressing your needs. It's a skill. You're flexing the muscle.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Until she did, we didn't feel comfortable with her being
alone with daughter. This is what did it. She jumped
up and shouted, you can't take her away from me.
She's all I have. Why are you trying to keep
me away from her? Ope? I've done so much for you.
I was the mother in law that husband's bio mother wasn't,
and this is how you repay me by taking away
my little girl. I don't have issues. I couldn't have children,

(29:38):
and God himself bless me with a family of my own,
and now you're trying to take her from me. She
ran out, shouting daughter's name. We all sat there, stunned.
I shot up and followed her, ran past her, blocking
the stairs. I pushed stepmother in law back and told
her get out of my house. You're going to wake
up my kids. My voice was firm and oddly unfaithed,

(30:00):
even though I was in complete shock. She collapsed, grabbing
onto my feet, begging and wailing. Husband and father in
law appeared shot.

Speaker 3 (30:08):
This is a trauma response. Yes yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:10):
Husband unclawed her hands from my feet and lifted up
her limp body. She grabbed husband by his face and wept. Please,
I'll do whatever you want. I'll listen to your rules.
Please don't take her away from me. She's my little girl.
Husband looked at father in law and said she needs help,
more than what any of us can give her. Father
in law snapped out of his trance and took stepmother

(30:31):
in law's hand, trying to calm her down. She was
still weeping as they opened the door. Please please, please,
ope you please, was the last thing I heard before
they got in the car and drove off.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Wow. I just think about the stress of a family
having to go through this. Yeah, that is incredibly difficult,
and boundaries your nervous system. And because these events don't
just happen and you go to bed and don't experience it,
your body is literally processing all of this and it's
so much. And this is the impact of not working

(31:05):
through your own grief and healing.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Yeah. I mean, it's clear that the stepmother in law
had such a giant response to I'm I mean, ohp
never said you never get to see my daughter. All
she could.

Speaker 3 (31:18):
Hear was the loss. Though you're losing.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
You can't have her anymore. She's not yours. Yeah, when
all op was trying to do was set boundaries. I
ran up to check on the kids. They were both
fast asleep. I walked back downstairs and sat on the stairs.
Then a husband sat down next to me, held my hand,
and we sat there in silence for the next five minutes,
mentally processing what happened. I call the childminder to let

(31:40):
her know that she can't release the kids to anyone
but me or husband. And there is a third update.
Oh but wow, yeah, wow, Okay, lot so happen.

Speaker 3 (31:51):
We're trying to protect family, which is good, and this
is now really up to father in law.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Well, it seems like he's finally, at least in this moment,
understanding how big of an issue this is, because.

Speaker 3 (32:03):
Hopefully, yeah, hopefully hopefully, because sometimes what could happen is
they go home, she is able to regulate, and then
they flip it all onto daughter in law and make
her the scapegoat and say she's the bad one. And
this is the common thing that so many daughters in
law experience is that in laws will say we never

(32:25):
had these issues before she came along, sure, rather than
going inwards and taking accountability and so we would hope
then that together they could say I think we need
to address this. And also too, how powerful it is
if father in law could say, we should go do
this work together. Let's go and find a therapist and
we can talk about what this was like for both

(32:46):
of us because they both went through the infertility and
the laws.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Well, I think that stepmother I'm not quite sure, but
I think stepmother in law had that before they got married.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Oh okay, yeah, and we still I imagine it shows up
in their dynamic, right it would.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
I mean it probably showed up and how she parented
Opie's husband and his brother, yeah, her sibling.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
It's so important for people to recognize that one of
the most powerful things you can do is to say
to your partner, I believe you. I might not feel
the same way. I might not be getting those nasty
comments from my mom like you are as daughter in law,
but I believe that this isn't good.

Speaker 2 (33:23):
Well, I think it's just putting trust in your partner.
We read a lot of cheating stories and stuff, and
I feel like it's similar thing of at the end
of the day, do you trust your partner? Do you
believe what they say? Because if you don't have trust.

Speaker 3 (33:35):
It's the security, it's the we think of the four
US's secure, safe, sooth seam that creates this attachment in partnerships.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, but we do have a third update, and we're
not even halfway through the story, so this is a
long one.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
John here og host.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
We're going to get back to these stories. But a
quick three minute break from hops from our sponsors. A
lot has happened. Everything was quiet for a few days.
We hadn't heard from stepmother in law or father in
law directly, but brother in law said his dad was
taking care of the situation. Dear husband texted his dad
that we were glad he was getting stepmother in law
professional attention, but due to recent events, we'd be limiting

(34:16):
contact and there would be no contact with the children
until we saw great improvement. Visits would still be supervised,
he replied. I understand and thank you. I took time
off work because I was anxious. Apart from the whirlwind
that was the breakdown, I thought the situation was contained.
This is where the narrator in my life says she

(34:36):
thought wrong. I didn't want to leave the house for
Mother's Day, but husband planned a whole day, so we
agreed to celebrate. I felt guilty in the back of
my mind. I couldn't help thinking of stepmother in law,
who we celebrate every year, and she was probably a mess.
The morning of, I laid out my makeup and went
to shower. I came back and several products were gone.

(34:58):
She and your house.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Sorry, let's go back to the Mother's Day piece. I
often say to women and grandparents if I'm working with them,
that Mother's Day can be celebrated in lots of different ways,
but generation today is saying it's supposed to be for
those who are in the trenches, and that if your
mother in law or your own mother really want a celebration,
put it on another day. Yeah, maybe it's earlier, maybe

(35:22):
you bring a flower basket on a different day. But
I hear from a lot of mothers in law and
mom saying, well, I'm the grandparent, I should be celebrated
on this day. And instead of turning now past the
torch to the mom and the trenches. Yeah, yeah, I
give permission for that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
I assumed it was stress and that I must have
misplaced them. After looking for a while, I just used
different products and my spare brushes. We left for brownsch
at a restaurant fifteen minutes from our house. It was
chillier than expected, so I thought i'd grab jackets for
my kids and be back before the food rived. When
I pulled up, I noticed the signe my door was

(36:00):
slightly open. It's not a door that has a lock,
so I assumed the wind opened it, but it was
still odd. I went to close it and noticed a
trash can had fallen over. The wind couldn't have knocked
this over. It was full. Now I was on edge.
I went to the front of the house, slowly unlocked
the door and closed it behind me. My heart was racing.

(36:21):
I walked upstairs, past my son's room, up to my
daughter's room, and the sight I saw horrified me. My
daughter's clothes were organized and rows on the floor, not folded,
but laid out outfits, completed with shoes and accessories. There
sitting cross legged on the floor was stepmother in law,
whoa All I could say was what the f hole?

(36:46):
She got up so fast and sighed like she'd been
waiting on me. Thank God your hero pe. I came
to celebrate Mother's Day with the baby's no one was here.
I couldn't decide on what outfit to put her in,
so I laid them out to get a visual. I
thought I was the one going crazy. I took out
my phone to call a husband, and she grabbed it
and said, no, no, we don't have to do that
with the effing creepiest great I feel like she's having

(37:08):
a breakdown.

Speaker 3 (37:09):
So I'm kind of again, I can't assess anyone, yeah,
when I'm not there and I don't have patient consent,
But I'm almost getting this flavoring of a break from reality.
I agree, And someone commented, how does she have keys?
I also want to know that it feels like she
broke in.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
She might have yeah, or maybe there's a house you know,
hiat to key or something.

Speaker 3 (37:34):
Leaves our side door open all the time. But yeah, yeah,
this kind of losing touch with reality is a flag.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
Yeah. And when you have this, you know, heartbreaking loss
of a child previously that you haven't gotten over worked through,
and then you have this trigger of you can't see
the kids anymore, seems like it's all kind of come
together to this moment. My heart was saying, start swinging,
but my head was saying, she's unwell and clearly unstable.

(38:05):
I told her she needed to leave right now. You're
not supposed to be here, we're no contact, she said,
But it's Mother's Day, It's the day God meant from
mothers and children. I should be with my baby. I
told her, she's not your daughter. I am her mother.
You're not even biologically related to her. I'm done with this,
I snatched my phone back and started walking downstairs to

(38:27):
call husband, and this woman was sobbing behind me. I
called husband and told him he wanted to drive back,
but I didn't want him to bring the kids. Oh okay,
then good, I thought the kids were there.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
No, she went back by herself because she thought while
waiting for food, she'd go and come back.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Okay. I was like, why are you leaving the kids upstairs? Okay,
so the kids aren't there. She was just arranging the clothes.
But I didn't want him to bring the kids, so
I said drop them at sister in law's house. Then
come This woman was screaming over my shoulder. Oh pie,
is that husband? Is he bringing daughter? I knew you
come around. See this was a misunderstanding. Babies are supposed
to be with their mothers. She started laughing. I told her,

(39:05):
your delusional. I can never let you be around them.
You broke into my house. I'm calling the police. She sobbed.
You can't. We're family, I'm not doing anything wrong. You're
trying to keep her from me. Half of me wanted
to beat the sence into her, but the other half
was so freaked out. I thought it would be better
for the police to handle this. I think that's probably

(39:26):
a good idea.

Speaker 3 (39:27):
Yeah, and also too when we call the police. And
I don't want to speak out in my area of expertise,
but you know, if you are ever concerned about someone's
mental well being, because this is not a threat, you
don't make a threat to someone. I'm like, I'm gonna
call the police, but if you are seriously concerned, you
call nine one one. Yeah, recognizing it's not like a Yeah,
recognizing you're not a therapist, you're not an emergency counselor,

(39:49):
and that if you're worried for someone's well being, in
safety and even your own.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, calling a medical professional rather than call nine one one. Yeah.
The phone was ringing as I said hello and turned
back around. Oh my god, this woman had two sharp objects,
each one pointing at her temple. I never felt more
powerless and horrified. She was sobbing that she couldn't live
in this world without her baby. I tried to speak calmly,

(40:12):
but I was about to faint from horror. She was
screaming and sobbing uncontrollably, saying she couldn't live in this
world anymore. It was too painful, too evil. I was
crying now, half because I was terrified, the other half
because what she was saying was horrible. I begged and
pleaded with her, but I knew the only thing that
would get her to put down the sharp objects was
my daughter. I told her she couldn't do this. Would

(40:35):
it affect daughter without her grandmother here? She needed her.
She started to whimper and drop the knives. I picked
them up. The police arrived. I mean, clearly this woman
needs full time care. This yeah, yeah, this is not
you know, so she's just a bad mother in law.
This is beyond that.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
It sounds like there is that break in contact of reality.
And then also too, the threat to self really indicates
that she needs more help.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Oh yeah, I mean father in law cannot at this
point help her.

Speaker 3 (41:08):
This is traumatizing. Yeah, and I'm hoping then for op
she is going to now go check in with her therapist,
because that is incredibly difficult.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Having that responsibility of trying to walk someone back from
that moment is terrifying. The rest of the day was
a blur. I remember her husband, father in law, and
brother in law arriving shortly. I remember screaming at father
in law that he was weak and cowardly and that
he needed to put her in a hospital where she
could be psychologically analyzed. I felt bad at how I

(41:42):
was screaming at him, but that was one of the
most terrifying moments I witnessed. Stepmother in law went into
psychiatric hold and she's still in the hospital. Neither husband
nor I have visited her, but sister in law told
me for the first day she was screaming, just let
me pass away and crying her daughter. It's been a week,
but I was told she's made improvements.

Speaker 3 (42:02):
And this is also too. I think people really need
to hear this because for op, you didn't cause this. No,
and I know so many people can easily fall into
guilt and shame, even of like I'm a bad person
that I did this. You had every right to express boundaries.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
And also it seems like you, like the moment that
you noticed that there was something wrong, you came to
her and said, I'm worried for you. It's not just
we're setting boundaries. You can never I hate you, it's
I'm worried for you because we had a good relationship.
I don't know how to feel. On one hand, our
relationship is permanently damaged. I feel guilty because I know

(42:37):
she's unwell, but a part of me will always feel
she's unpredictable and therefore unsafe to be around. Me and
the kids are going to our apartment in another state
for a few weeks. My best friend lives at ten
minute drive away. We're also looking to move. This whole
thing has been a trial, to say the least. And
there is another update, but too have many thoughts before

(42:58):
we get into that update.

Speaker 3 (42:59):
The community and connection is really important. Taking space is important.
Looking after yourself.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
You need to, yeah, focusing on you, your husband, and
your kids because you've already done a lot.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
And the thing here too is the mother and father.
You have to be well to look after your kids
at this point. Your children need you to be grounded
and connected and secure and attentive. And I just love
that she's doing that. But that's traumatic.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah, absolutely. But we have a fourth update, and guys,
we are getting to the end of the story. But wow,
what a crazy story. Hey guys, I'll give you a
rundown of what's been going on. Stepmother in law is
out of the hospital. From what I've heard from sister
in law. Her delusions have stopped, but she's very depressed
at the reality of her life and what's happened. She's

(43:46):
now attending therapy. The restraining order was granted. We spoke
to our lawyers and the breaking and entering charges were
trickier than we thought. Honestly, we think she needs mental
health more than criminal corrections, so we decided against it.

Speaker 3 (43:58):
I agree, Yeah, yeah, it's this kind of we're going
to drop this, We're going to focus on what's really important.
And also too for father in law then to be
on board to see this. Yeah, and this is such
a moment of distress. So I think we also want
to understand that having delusions, well even like, let's look
at delusions for a minute from a mental health perspective,

(44:22):
this is anxiety to the extreme. So when we're anxious,
we're worried that someone's going to break into our house.
When we have a delusion, we believe someone broke into
our house. So it's the spectrum, and that oftentimes when
we get to this place of having delusions or hallucinations,
it's not just one thing, it's a series of stressors
over time. And so this was a build up for

(44:43):
her really. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
We have a complete new security system that covers the
whole grounds, new locks, new passwords. The house got put
up for sale. I'm sad about this because it's my
dream house, but too much has happened. Plus, stepmother in
law and father in law live a twenty minute drive away,
which is way too close. Me and the kids are
temporarily staying in our apartment in another state. Stepmother in

(45:06):
law has never been here and she doesn't know the address.
My friends have been really supportive, and my sister flew over. Still,
I gave a picture to the doorman of what she
looks like, just in case. We finalized our will to
ensure father in law and stepmother in law will never
be the guardians of our children. I wanted to clear
some things up from my last post. I don't feel

(45:27):
sorry for her, as in I'll forgive her poor her.
She's not a threat. I feel sorry that this is
an unfortunate situation, and it's a shame it had to
end in no contact. Don't get me wrong, I felt
sad initially, but not enough to place her needs above
mine or my children's. If I'm being completely honest, Even
with the ro I think she will still come for us.

(45:48):
Hopefully the therapy will help them.

Speaker 3 (45:50):
And also too, if there was that break from reality
that was why she was in the home, not because
once she has had that addressed, she would do it again.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Yeah, I doubt she cares about legal repercussions. Sister in
law said it took some time, but she doesn't seem
delusional anymore, just depressed, and that she cries all day
that she won't see us for a long time because
of what she did. I can't take the risk of
her being around my children knowing what she's capable of,
but they will no doubt try to guilt us into

(46:19):
seeing them, especially with the birthdays coming up.

Speaker 3 (46:22):
I really hear ope setting boundaries for themselves, which is
all of and it's so unfortunate that you have to
move and make those decisions.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
The house that you know you love just.

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Just crushing and at the same time, though you could
stay stuck and continue to spiral. And why did they
do that? Why did this happen? They should have to move?
They went inwards and made all of the agency for themselves,
and that's really powerful. The piece I'm thinking about here
and again, like you have to decide that as a couple,

(46:53):
it's never for someone else to judge what you decide
to do, and that no contact. Maybe it shifts, maybe
at some point we don't know how it ends, but
maybe one day down the road it shifts to low
contact and that you meet at a restaurant when.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
She's proven that she's taken the steps that she needs
to take.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
And only the couple can decide what will feel good
for that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
Father in law promised stepmother in law that when she
gets better, of course she'll get to see us. Father
in law said that I don't think he could make
that promise. Brother in law stepped in and said, that's
not his decision, and we've made it clear that stepmother
in law won't be around our children for a long time.
She cried. The flying monkeys have hit us with full force.

(47:34):
People from stepmother in law's church called husband, rambling about
how terrible this situation is and we shouldn't abandon her
in her time of need. He hung up. The pastor
of the church met with husband, and he was lovely.
He said, we were taking the right steps to ensure
the safety of our children. Maybe he can talk to
all those people that are calling your husband from the church. Hmmm,

(47:54):
since he's in a position of leadership. We have vacation
plans already booked, so we'll be out of the country
a few months. Unfortunately, we can't move out of the
US permanently. It isn't the right time for us, but
we're definitely moving states a fresh start is overdue. To
top it off, my mother in law has returned from
her travels, pestering husband for details and sweeping in trying

(48:16):
to adopt this stable parental and grandparent role. So I
guess we have Opie's husband's bio mother.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
Coming in and buy his bio MoMA coming in.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, the mother is so I think there's the stepmother
in law who's married to Opie's father in law, and
then we have mother in law.

Speaker 3 (48:31):
So mother in law's coming in.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, So it's trying to It seems like she's trying
to be like, oh see, you guys didn't like me,
but I'm looking pretty good now. That's what at least
i'm reading from that sentence. Also, I never found the
missing makeup. I had to repurchase the products, which sucks
because it's expensive as.

Speaker 3 (48:49):
That and people shouldn't steal from your house no.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Yeah, some relevant comments from Little m Me Too says,
I'm so sorry for you all, such a crappy situation.
I think you're doing the right thing though. And as
for a name, Naobi in Greek mythology, the woman who
wept for her passed away children until she turned to stone.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Ooh, that gives me chills.

Speaker 2 (49:08):
Yeah, yes, Panther Purple who's op says Wow, this might
be the winner. And there is a fifth update, and
I believe this would probably be the final update to
our story. One more. But any final thoughts.

Speaker 3 (49:21):
Oh, we've just taught. We've dabbled in so much here.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
It was such a lot to unpack about this story.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
There's this almost generational piece that I'm curious about. And again,
so adult children are not responsible for parents feelings. We
can show up with empathy, kindness, validation, but it's not
our job to soothe them and meet all of their needs.
And I think that's really important for us to remember
because holidays around the corner parents are saying. And again,

(49:51):
in unhealthy family systems, some of the things that show
up I outline ten in the book. So some of
the things that show up are things like rigidity and control,
where they'll say things like we always celebrate on Thursday.
You have to be here on Thursday, and then they
weep when you say this year, we're not coming, like
that's that's not healthy. Yeah, healthy family systems can say, huh,

(50:11):
I feel sad that you're not coming this year. It
is a tradition and I love so much. How can
we then find another time to do this together?

Speaker 2 (50:18):
We do this over the weekend if you're free, Yeah,
just so we can be together.

Speaker 3 (50:23):
Because healthy families are not hinged on one event, which I.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
Think is kind of going into the mother in law
or mother's day of saying we can celebrate it on
another day.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Sure, and also too, I mean again, these events have
to work for you. Some families will say it's fine,
my mother in law wants Thanksgiving, we all show up.
It's fine. There's another piece here where this generation of
parents they're doing things differently compared to previous generations. We
don't want to pack up the kids. We don't want
to drive. I'm in Canada so snow. We don't want

(50:54):
to drive through the eight hour snowstorm with the three
month old and the toddler crying, and the dog and
the backseat. But other generations did that because that's just
what you did. Yeah, and that was the right thing
to do. And I think for so many of us today,
we're so overwhelmed and burnt out and stressed. We don't
have to list off the events for why we are
and we're choosing our own family tradition, yeah, and our

(51:16):
own things that are meaningful to us. And so for
healthy families, just remember that it doesn't hinge on one event.
There's lots of things that make a connected relationship. And
if the stepmother could be a little more grounded, she
could see all the other ways that she builds family.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Yeah. And it's sad that OPI lost that really seemingly
important relationship she had with step.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Much as grief for her too. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
Update five. I can't go into everything because it's draining,
so I'll give you the highlights. I've decided to go
with Niobe because the namesake is eerily appropriate. A month ago,
sister in law facetiming she was at Niobe's house helping
her clean and came across a suitcase. So Niobe is
the stepmother in law. Inside were pieces of my clothes, shoes,

(52:00):
I hadn't seen for months, ras, gloves, and a bunch
of random stuff including hair ties and perfume. When asked
about it, Naobi said she used to take things of mind,
no matter how insignificant. She wanted to make things more
familiar for daughter when she was here. She was asked
about my makeup, but Naobi said she couldn't remember if
that was something she took.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
That wouldn't be so out to the left field if
she had said, yeah, can I make a space, like,
how could we do this instead of doing this in secret?
So I know that many grandparents build this healthy nursery
setup so the baby will be comfortable, but you have
to do it in joint with the parents.

Speaker 2 (52:41):
Right here, she's trying to adopt A's kind of visage
to you know, take the daughter. So the mystery of
the missing makeup is still unsolved, but a lot of weirdness. Nevertheless,
for the first few weeks, father in law bombarded husband
with calls and texts he never picked up.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
That's hard because that's the father in law not respecting
boundary for space. That's the anxious pursuit. And it happens
often when adult kids say their parents, I need a pause.
I just need to take space. We're going to work
through this, but in order to do that, I need space.
Then that parent goes into the anxious pursuit and they
call and they call and they call, and they're making
it worse.

Speaker 2 (53:19):
And then the yeah, they lose. You know, they might
have had a chance to reunite in the future, but
they lose that chance. Turns out father in law would
call any time. Niobe was having a hard time to
convince us to let her have a FaceTime session with
the kids, which I don't even think would help her.
And I feel like he needs to be working more
with the professionals that hopefully are you know, working with

(53:39):
stepmother in law, rather than just giving into all of
the demands that she has. Our children adapted pretty well
after our conversation with son explaining why they won't be
seeing their grandparents. He hasn't really struggled or asked. Niobi
is making steady mental progress. She's not delusional anymore, but
she still has her own issues. Her and her church
minions have convens themselves that my actions are far too drastic.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Oh and they are scapegoating the daughter in law instead
of making it about what she did that was not okay, And.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
It's just very frustrating to me because it feels like
all of these church people are kind of like vultures
around this clearly unwell woman and inserting whatever their own
thoughts and feelings are about family dynamic onto a person
who is struggling and needs a lot of help, just
specifically these people.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
It's almost this self awareness skill that when someone tells
you a story, you practice questioning what information do I
not know? I do this with my friends. My friends
will come and we'll have dinner, and they'll say, oh,
so and so is having these marital problems, and I'll say, well,
that's really interesting because you know, in a marriage there's
two people. Yeah, and while you only hear that story,

(54:49):
what's the other side that you're not hearing because there's
a dynamic, So there's a bias the church friends. Yes,
your friends, you're supportive, But at the same time, how
powerful if you're a mother in law watching this to
then say to your friend, like, maybe you need to
respect this, maybe you need to see things from her perspective.

Speaker 2 (55:09):
Absolutely, they claim I use this opportunity to isolate my
husband and children from their family. They also tried to
rewrite what happened and said I exaggerated and manipulated Niobe's breakdown.
Every couple of weeks I get calls from people asking
me if various rumors are true, including that I cheated
on husband and convinced him to move to be near

(55:30):
my lover. Please laugh with me. When they found out
we were moving, they flipped out. The following conversation took place, Naobi,
she's taking this too far. I understand I was in
the wrong, but to move to another state? Wait? Is
she planning on leaving to England? She can't do that.
Brother in law says, yeah, I don't think you have
a say in that, Niobi. I'm still their grandmother. She

(55:51):
can't do that. We're not planning to move to the
UK anytime in the near future, if ever. But either way,
she's not seeing my kids, so why would it matter.
Forward This woman and equally unhinged father in law decided
to take a lovely trip to visit London when they
were in Europe. Thanks to everyone being tight lipped, we
were in Asia on vacation. That didn't stop her from

(56:14):
trying to call my sister asking for her address to
stop buy and catch up my sister gave her a
stern talking to and pretty much said, I'm not as
patient as my sister. Call me again and we're gonna
have big problems. We're heading back to the US, so
I'm sure our return will invite another level of crap.
But there is a final update to this story. I

(56:36):
think that Opie might need to get a new number,
which is what a lot of people are saying. If
you keep getting harassed by people on.

Speaker 3 (56:43):
How do you keep setting those boundaries. She's not going
to change, She's going to keep trying, So how do
you keep creating that space and protecting your peace? Absolutely,
and also too, we need family on board on this,
and so her sister sounded like she protected.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
Yeah, and that was the brother in law as well,
so it seems like you.

Speaker 3 (56:59):
Can sounds like father in law can't do that though,
and so that might also require them son to say
to dad, listen, Dad, this isn't okay. Yeah, you need
to stop. We're taking this space because that distance is
not being respected.

Speaker 2 (57:15):
Yeah, it's just sad because the father in law is
not helping his wife by doing this, and it doesn't
seem like she really has anyone on her side. Except
hopefully a therapist or some you know, medical professional.

Speaker 3 (57:26):
But it makes me question why why doesn't the father
in law be more in there? And I think of
the relationship stuff. A really healthy relationship is about challenging
each other and influencing each other. We know from research
couples who allow influence are more satisfied at follow up,
especially men when they allow influence. And so if they're together,

(57:50):
he could then be doing this work with her and
you know, refocusing and when we set boundaries too, father
in law could not just be to stop focusing on this,
but instead, let's go take up tai Chi. Let's go
to the movies. Let's explore this country we never got
to do before. Let's go to the rocky mountains, right.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Like something to take the focus off of Golden special life. Yeah,
and like find yourself and you're you know who you
are away from this daughter. Yes, but there is a
little bit left to this story. Hey guys, I know
an update about Niobi's way overdue, and an update of
Crazy is pending, so I'll write that up, but this

(58:29):
one is fairly short. So some of you may remember,
during Niobe's mental breakdown, she broke into my house, and
mysteriously my makeup disappeared too, but no one ever spoke
about it again. Well, a few weeks ago, I was
in our old state to finalize a few things and
attend my good friend's engagement party. Now Niobi was good
friends with said friend's mother, but after this all kicked off,

(58:52):
my friend saw what a mess I was. Her mother
was the one who told me. Niobi was telling people
I had an affair.

Speaker 3 (58:58):
Wow, And this is the other thing too. And when
we're in community, so I think of this church group.
We're in community and we want to support each other.
But wow, don't talk about other people. Yeah, just don't.
You don't know their business, you don't know what they're
going through, you don't know what their marriage is. Just
don't talk about other people. It's not it's not okay.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Well, friend's mother was disgusted at her lies and cut
her off. Niobi, however, still felt the need to congratulate
my friend on her engagement and give her a basket
of gifts. And I'm I see where this is going.
So I asked my friend what she got. She went
upstairs and ground the basket. You guys, everything in that

(59:39):
basket was a brand new version of everything I had
owned that Niobe had stolen, the exact foundation that went missing,
the bronzer, the lipstick, all my shades, which is crazy
because my friend is pale a lingerie set, hair ties,
and perfume. To say we were creeped out is an understatement.
I don't know, it would be really weird if I

(01:00:00):
received a lingerie set from, you know, my mother's friend.

Speaker 3 (01:00:06):
There have been some mothers in law that have gifted
lingerie to their daughters a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
I'm strange.

Speaker 3 (01:00:11):
Everyone has their own proclivities, but there is this sense of, yeah,
just a little iky source it out. You know, if
you're not sure about a gift asking chicken.

Speaker 2 (01:00:20):
I don't know if she did it to f with
me or what, but I'd say that's pretty danging evidence.
You know what's funny? That is the least crazy these
past two months have been, and you guys will soon
be roped into the horror movie that is my life.
But that is the end of that story. There's no
more horror movie. For now. It seems like Ope's on
the way to separating that life from her stepmother in

(01:00:42):
law and getting away from all of that. But any
any final thoughts to leave op with.

Speaker 3 (01:00:48):
I think, and this is even my own brain. My
own brain does a lot of like what could I
have done differently? I like to ruminate. I think that's
just my my brain that does it. But it's often like, Okay,
was there a way to intervene earlier? And hindsight's always
twenty twenty, which is why I always tell people don't
get stuck in going back being revisionous in history? But

(01:01:08):
were there smaller moments along the way. Ultimately, you can't
control someone's mental health. You did not cause this to happen. Yeah,
it sounds like there were these like kind of unfoldings
or cracks that were happening, and nobody was supporting her
and seeing it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Yeah, and then when she tried to bring it up,
father in law didn't listen.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
Right, all of these like small micro moments. And what
really stands out for me, and I'm like, you know,
just cheering, is that her husband was on the same
page as her. Absolutely, and that doesn't happen all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
We read so many stories where husbands do not listen
and then it leads to like a divorce or just
this big blow up fight. Yeah, so I'm glad that
he was on her side. When you have a person
this unhinged in the mix, one.

Speaker 3 (01:01:51):
Of the most harmful things you can do in your
relationship is deny their experience and say that didn't happen.
It's not important. So really being able to just sit
besides your partner, you don't have to problem solve. One
of the biggest things we want in relationships is to
be seen and to be known. We can give that,
and then I also think about the cycle of relationships
which goes through So this is really important. Relationships are

(01:02:13):
all about connection, disconnection, repair, and you go through this cycle,
and when you go through this repair piece, that actually
strengthens your relationship. Many of us didn't witness the repair.
We only witness connection disconnection. And I ask a lot
of my clients, well, what did you learn about emotions?
What did you learn about coming back and saying sorry?
Stories were forced? Parents never did it, Parents walked on eggshells,

(01:02:35):
doors were slammed, but no one came back together. We
didn't know and so it was never modeled. And so
then we think, well, how do you do this? In relationships?
Ownership is important, taking accountability and responsibility and always coming
back and saying, you know what, I messed up there
and that could have changed so much of what happened
in this experience, and not on the opiece, part on

(01:02:57):
father in law, on stepmother in.

Speaker 2 (01:02:59):
Law, all the other characters. Yeah, yeah, but that is
the end of that story. And we do have some questions.
But do you have time to ask some questions? Yes? Perfect.
So these are from some of our lovely people in
Chat and also just our lovely viewers.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Hey, it's Sam. We we get back to the stories.
But here's three minutes of ads from our sponsors.

Speaker 2 (01:03:19):
Anonymous. We don't not anonymous from Chat. This is just
an anonymous person said, my twenty four male mother in
law fifty three female constantly meddled in our marriage, controlling
our finances, insisting on being involved in everything, and issuing
ultimatums or throwing massive fits whenever we try to make
decisions as a couple, turning our marriage into a constant battlefield.

(01:03:42):
Because my wife, twenty five female, is severely affected by
your mother. Question, how do I handle my mother in law?
Should I interfere between them two or should I quietly
coach my wife how to set boundaries with her? And
that is the question from an anonymous user.

Speaker 3 (01:03:58):
The first thought is if you interfere, how is that
going to affect your marriage? There's almost three things here.
What am I doing as husband? So what do I
want to do? What are my boundaries? What am I
willing to engage with or not with my mother in law?
And then what am I doing to support my wife
and her And this is where the book you your
husband and his mother, or you your husband and her mother,

(01:04:20):
whatever it is, it's there's a triangle. And the triangle
exists when two people are experiencing conflict and we bring
in a third to alleviate that conflict. So in this situation,
wife and her mom are having conflicts. So he's kind
of like, do I insert myself? And that can make
it more conflictual in all those relationships, right.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
I think there's also kind of like really quick way
I think sometimes. I mean, at least when people critique
my mom, I'm like, hey, it's my mom, kids, I
can critique.

Speaker 3 (01:04:50):
Her love that you just shared that, because people then
naturally get defensive of their own memories and histories and parents.
And so if he's going to go in, she's going
to get defensive instead. Of and I think of it,
it's like, okay, top down as I'm interfering, bottom up
in a relationship is being able to say, how do

(01:05:11):
you feel when your mom does that? You know, I
noticed that your mom did blah blah, Like what thoughts
do you have after? Like, oh, you told me that
you weren't going to initially do that, and then you did,
Like just help me, like walk me through how you
decide them that would be one piece, so bottom up,
and then what are they doing as a couple? So first,
how are they protecting their finances? How are they protecting

(01:05:31):
their piece? How are they then also engaging in things
that bring each other joy? Because if he can say
to his wife, hey, let's go have joy over here
and with other healthy people, she'll start seeing how much
weight and how much energy her mother costs her and
then she can start making that decision.

Speaker 2 (01:05:50):
Mm hmm, yeah, I think it's I think to answer
that question, it seems like you're saying the not necessarily coaching,
but it's it's like the top down of the bottom up,
sorry not top bottom up of being uplifting her and
supporting her as she makes.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
Those but then for him, yeah, find your boundaries, So
don't engage in those manipulative conversations. Nip those in the
bud that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Yeah, Question two from another anonymous user. My twenty three
female mom is super financially reckless, always overspending, racking up debt,
and gambling instead of budgeting. And now she keeps guilt
tripping me for money, who's asking for loans multiple times,
even try to get one under my name while lying
about it. And I've already been giving her basically all

(01:06:34):
my money just to keep the apartment running. I'm stuck
worrying she'll keep taking advantage of me, guilt tripping me
and taking my money. I can't move out for a
few more years, and I've been planning to eventually get
as far away from her as possible and cut contact completely.
What can I realistically do for now.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
This financial abuse? Yeah, that's so so wrong. We as
children look to our parents, and this is throughout the
lifespan to support us, to not take advantage of us.
I even think of some of my twenty three year
old clients, or even my thirty eight year olds or
forty six year olds where their parents go to them

(01:07:15):
and talk about their weight issues. Or their money issues
or their marital issues. Again, top down, we don't want
to do that. And so then for her this is
going to be I mean, my first thought is roommate situation,
Like if your mother's taking your money, then can you
not go find two other people to live with and
split cost? Financial supports could maybe be an option as well,

(01:07:37):
but someone taking out loans in your name is not okay.
And then now what are the boundaries? So every time
your mother tries to guilt trip you or go down
that road, you're going to leave the home. You're gonna say, okay,
I have to go. Got time for me to do
whatever it is, and just not engage in that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
Oh, that's a tricky power. It's that like stuckness, right,
Like I feel like I'm so stuck here, and sometimes
we have to acknowledge that you're being stuck. But then
also how do you then find what you could do differently?
Do you really have to give her all the money?

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Can you go all just guilting you into feeling like that?

Speaker 3 (01:08:12):
Right? And can you hide it in some other way?
Can you not tell her how much your paycheck was?
Can you tell her you didn't get a paycheck this week,
and they promised you whatever it is, and so that
you're packing that money away. So again going to yourself.
What's your own agency? How can you do things differently?

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Greed answer. Another anonymous man says, just by setting limitations.
My husband has adopted the same mindset. Now, I've always
loved a clean house, enjoyed cooking, and didn't mind saving money.
But to the extent they do it, it's crazy. He's
trying to do better with laundry, cleaning, and chores, but
you can tell he isn't as happy unless the house
is spotless. He's an only child and his mom stayed

(01:08:49):
at home and didn't work while he was growing up,
which is perfectly fine. She just believes anyone who doesn't
clean like she does is lazy. Her definition of clean
includes scrubbing base boards, windows, and showers every week, whether
they were used or not. It's wild.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
Can I share something?

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
I remember being how old was I? I think I
was twenty seven. I was sitting across from my therapist
and I had said, well, my now husband, my boyfriend
doesn't turn the lights off when I leave the room.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:18):
She's like, okay, Well tell me about that. And I
had said, well, you know, growing up, the lights were
the thing, Like if you didn't turn lights off, it
was like, Tracy, come turn lights off, right, it's the thing.
And she's like, what if you just didn't do that?
What if you didn't repeat it? And it always stuck
with me because again, you're bringing two systems together, him
and hers, they're coming together. What if you just don't.

(01:09:41):
You don't have to repeat those things. Just because that
worked for your family doesn't mean it now works for
both of you. And when one person comes in saying
it has to be this way, that's not a relationship,
that's not co creation, it's a good point. I leave
all the lights on now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
I'm over it now. His dad relied on his mom
to do all of these things. He worked his job
and she was expected to take care of the rest.
This arrangement is fine, and I also like a clean house.
But once we add a special needs daughter, which required
me to stay home and give up my career to
provide the care she needs, my husband thinks I should
continue doing the same as his mom did, which is

(01:10:17):
pretty unfair because your mom didn't have to take care
of a special needs daughter, and so you have an
entirely different set of responsibilities.

Speaker 3 (01:10:24):
Their expectations changed, and, as it does in life, you
choose a partner, something changes along the way. Someone loses
a job, a parent gets sick. You have to ebb
and flow. You can't stay the same all the time, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
My daughter, who is fifteen, has prater Willie syndrome, expressed
her concerns last week to my mother in law about
how controlling her dad is and how she doesn't feel
love or support from her as a mother in law.
She pointed out that in twenty five years, my mother
in law has never responded to her when she's expressed
love or even initiated contact herself. All discussions seem to

(01:10:57):
revolve around my mother in law, her son, and my daughter.
My husband took his mother's side. She got upset with
my daughter and told her that I can just lave
if I'm not happy. Since then, she still hasn't spoken
to my daughter because she thinks she should apologize. My
husband has only pitied his mom. Oh, so your daughter
has gone to your mother in law and said that

(01:11:17):
she's noticed how she's treating you.

Speaker 3 (01:11:20):
Wow, that's complex. There's a lot of talking to others
in this scenario.

Speaker 2 (01:11:24):
Yeah, that's tricky.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
There's a lot of triangles.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
I encourage people.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
To just speak directly.

Speaker 3 (01:11:30):
Yeah. But also for those watching listening, think of the
triangles in your life when you choose to go to
one person, but really you should go to somebody else. Yeah,
And that's all about discomfort. I think what I'm seeing
here is maybe kind of this. And again I can't diagnose.
I'm not sitting with people. This is just kind of speculations.
There's almost this low emotional intelligence with the mother in

(01:11:53):
law and maybe with her husband, who can't see that
this is not the daughter's job to do this. Oh, also,
a family has to come together. But then I wonder
how does mom and daughter now protect their energy. You're
not going to change husband, You're not going to change
mother in law. Yeah. And a lot of women, I think,

(01:12:13):
come to this point they say, am I going to
be the good wife? Or am I going to be
the good mom? And in the seventies many women said
I'm going to be the good wife. Yeah, But today
we're saying I want to be the good mom. And
so how does she then say to her husband, yeah,
I'm not going to keep up the standard of the
house and if you would like to do that, then
maybe we need to outsource something. But I can't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Yeah, And I think it models to your daughter how
to stand up for yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:12:39):
Absolutely, and that's so important.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
Yeah, because right now she's seeing she comes to her
father says I've noticed this. He dismisses her, but at
least you have you coming and saying like, no, I'm
not going to accept that behavior, yes, which I think
is a big deal.

Speaker 3 (01:12:52):
And then mom's saying to daughter, Hey, you know, I
know you're coming from a good place, but you don't
have to worry about me with that. Yeah, And for
her then to say to daughter, let's focus on us
and what we can control, and I'll do my work
with your grandmother and then you just focus on whatever,
like good stuff comes with your grandma, whatever that looks like.

(01:13:14):
And I think you said she was fifteen, but yeah,
at that part, she might say, I don't feel good
hanging out with grandma anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Any like a separation of yeah, or distancing.

Speaker 3 (01:13:25):
There's another triangle with father mother daughter. Yes, And so
then daughter and father have to work through what they're doing.
Mom and dad have to do their own stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:13:35):
Outside of that and not yeah, put that on your
daughter some extra questions. What makes setting boundaries with the
mother in law so hard? It's just general questions.

Speaker 3 (01:13:46):
Oh my goodness, there's a little bit of a power
dynamic in here. Sure, And so I think if we
think of even it from daughter in law perspective, then
from son, so son with his own mom, so from
the daughter in law perspective. Many women want to be seen.
We think of Brene Brown's three p's. We perfect perform please,
we want to be good, we want to be liked.
We go into this family saying like me, accept me,

(01:14:07):
bring me in. I want to have this family. And
right there is the power differential, and that's hard to
do if you are still growing. Some people have shared
with me they've joined their in law family at fifteen,
and we're always viewed as an outsider or like a
child and not respective. Yeah, or people who join at
thirty seven, for example, And then right there it's like

(01:14:30):
you're two adults and all along you're trying to learn
what your boundaries are, and sometimes those don't become clear
until certain events in life. Yeah, I often think of
adulthood as starting at twenty seven to thirty because your brain,
your brain is growing, and that front of your brain
that is really able to slow things down and say, Okay,

(01:14:52):
what's happening for me, what's happening for you? How do
I want to communicate this? That doesn't come, It doesn't
completely finish until twenty two, twenty three, twenty four. Yeah,
So it's hard to set boundaries when you're younger, you know.
I think at that first, the first short question we had,
they're twenty four to twenty five, So that's tough. And
then I think of the sun. I'm going to make

(01:15:13):
a really broad statement here from my clinical experience, is
that men are more likely to be avoidant. Yeah, and
they are more likely to shut emotions down and to
avoid into compartmentalize. And so because of the early social
development of that, they struggle to set boundaries with mom.
And then incomes the partner and they get married, maybe

(01:15:35):
they have a baby, and partner saying you have to
set a boundary with your mom and he's never done
it before. Yeah, And then what we all choose, and
I love this, We all choose the path of least
resistance because we don't want to be uncomfortable, and so
we say to our partners, it's not that bad. Yeah,
fin It's mom will go always like that. We'll go

(01:15:57):
for an hour and then we'll leave, and then we'll
go and have fun and play. But it's not because
those early patterns are laying the stone, yes, and you
want to interrupt them early on.

Speaker 2 (01:16:08):
And we have another question, what is the first warning
sign when a mother in law has crossed the line?
Which you kind of said, those are the first, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:16:15):
Patterns that you see. Also two when you express something
and they keep doing it. Yeah, that's painful. Absolutely. Another
one might be kind of more of a process experience,
which would be you're with them, you leave, check in
with yourself and I'm doing I do this a lot
because I'm pointing to my God. I'm not in my head,
I'm pointing into my body. How does this feel after

(01:16:36):
you leave? Yeah, the first question we worked through, she
had said she felt like sick in her stomach before
having that hard conversation. Your body carries so much knowledge,
and so when you leave an event and something feels icky,
it's a good sign that maybe a boundary has been crossed. Also,
the very sneaky sign is resentment, when you start to

(01:16:59):
feel resented. It probably means that you have let your
boundaries go and you've been saying yes more than saying no.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Absolutely. Another question, what's the most common mistake most couples
make with their in laws.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
I posted it real recently and it was about splitting,
and I had my husband act out all these lines.
My husband's just fantastic in my community, see, and he's like,
don't post it. I just sound awful. It's not good.
I'm like terrible, Like we need the things to be seen.
So it's the splitting where you go. He goes to
his mom and will be like, Tracy doesn't want to

(01:17:32):
come for dinner. Tracy's feeding the baby, so you can't
do it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
One scene he's like, Mom, Tracy says, don't give the
kids candy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:42):
Yeah. It's like when you have a friend over when
you're a kid and you're like, oh, they're hungry. They
said they were hungry mom.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Yeah, it's the I'm making you the bad guy. And
there's you know, it's so interesting when I think of like, ooh,
is that a red flag? Should you get out of
that relationship? No, because if you can go to them
and say, hey, I'm not sure you're aware of this, Yes,
but this is what's happening, and that's going to lead
your mom to think that I don't want to be
here and we need to be this united front with family. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:18:12):
that's a big one.

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
And find a question what does a healthy in law
relationship actually look like?

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
Oh, that's big.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
Yeah, and I'm sure there's many different forms of a
healthy relationship.

Speaker 3 (01:18:23):
Yeah, there's this level of emotional intelligence and self awareness, kindness, respect, care,
and I think about a few kind of things. So
the willingness to communicate and work through hard things. I
think we need to understand that all families have bumps
along the way, but that you can come and repair things,

(01:18:44):
you can come back together.

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Yeah, so it's not always going to be broken.

Speaker 3 (01:18:49):
And that I think is really difficult because I think
sometimes today we just want relationships to feel easy rather
than hard. We learn a lot from the bumps, and
we come back together, we come apart, we come back together.
And then there's this element of also not personalizing it.
So we talked about that with the first one is
like really, like, you know, this is not about me.
This is what they're doing and it's different from me,

(01:19:10):
and maybe I don't understand it, but I'm gonna respect it.
So not personalizing it and then also being really curious
you think about relationships, Curiosity goes such a long way. Yeah,
asking questions, taking a genuine interest in your daughter in
law when baby is born. I know grandparents are excited,
and you go right to daughter in law first and

(01:19:33):
you see her and you make sure she's always seen
in that relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Yeah. Especially, I feel like we read a lot of
stories where we have a mother in the delivery room
and the second she's given birth, everyone's spawning over the baby,
and it's like, well, this person just gave birth, and
you know is an incredibly sensitive state.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
Or you know, everybody comes to see baby. Yeah, and
who holds mom? M hm, who's holding the mother? Yeah?
M hmm.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:20:00):
Those are all very great answers. Lovely, thank you again.

Speaker 2 (01:20:04):
I've seen everyone in the chat being very excited about
you being here and thankful.

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
Yesful.

Speaker 4 (01:20:09):
It looks like we have one question from the chat
from Chelsea Beck with.

Speaker 2 (01:20:13):
Chelsea beckw asks how do you deal with finding out
your mother in law has been secretly crossing boundaries and
making others turn against you without you knowing then turns
into the victim after getting called out.

Speaker 3 (01:20:25):
So Chelsea has already called her out then, which means
that if you have a victim mother in law type
I go through the six types in my book. You
get to find out who yours is, not to diagnose,
but to be curious about their pattern of behavior, because
then you get to choose what you're going to do next.
And going to her calling her out, she's going to
fall back into that victim mode. So the question then

(01:20:46):
is for you, what are you going to do? The
boundaries are what I am and am not willing to do,
and maybe that boundary is I'm not willing to enter
to these conversations and I have to sit with this
idea that other people don't know my truth and that's uncomfort.
But when you know your truth and your partner knows
you and each other together, that's all you need. You

(01:21:07):
can't control other people's opinions of you. Yeah, and it's
so painful to have that because I know, I know
people want connection, I know people want to be with family,
and this is such a painful thing to experience. Thank you,
And then I always love when people come and say
hi to me. So if you've been hanging out with
us tonight, please come say hi to me. My social
is at Doctor Tracy d I am social on there.

(01:21:29):
I see every DM, I see every message if you
want to dabble into relationship stuff with me, and my
podcast is called Dear Doctor Tracy. My special guest is
often my husband who comes on and he's just a
regular guy, so he kind of gives this like regular
guy perspective of like the defensive, kind of stonewaller guy
that he like, just yeah, I love how he This

(01:21:52):
community is just unreal, Like, I'm so proud of you guys.
You know, it's incredible. I'm so proud of you. It's
like we're in community and it's just so needed.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
No, I've really been loving bringing all you know, these
We've had a lot of different professionals on, so I
feel really.

Speaker 3 (01:22:10):
Lucky to have you, you know it basically, you know
that's such a guest. Yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:14):
It's been really great. I feel like I'm learning a
lot good. Yes, But I think that's the last question
we have for you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:20):
Thank you agains amazing for joining us and giving such
great answers for everything. Thank you really appreciate it. Thank you.
I have not been on the Today Show though, so
if you know somebody, yeah yeah, we get you on.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Pull me on there. We'll be the next guest on there.

Speaker 3 (01:22:35):
You've all been amazing. Thank you so much, Thanks Sophia,
thank you for sitting with me, and thank you for
everyone for joining us.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
I had a great time, so I'm glad that you
enjoyed as well.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}My Mother-in-Law wants to STEAL my daughter! | Reddit Stories | EP2350