Alexis Ren & Allie Michelle: 3 Ways to Stop Putting a Guard up in Love & Why You Need to Change Your Mindset On What Success Means in Dating

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (01:01):
If there's like a girl you know listening who's like, ah,
you know, I would love to feel more feminine. I
would love to, you know, have more of that energy
inside of me first is recognizing and giving so much
appreciation to that masculine that got you here, because it
was there was probably a reason you leaned into the masculine.
We our bodies are intelligent, our hearts are intelligent, and
we lean into what we need to in order to survive.
And so it's like, this is incredible, but now it's

(01:24):
time to not just survive anymore, and it's time to
truly like get into that thriving.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
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(01:49):
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Speaker 3 (02:01):
Subscribe right now the number one health and wellness.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Podcast Jay Sheety Jay Shetty see Zy holy st Hey everyone,
welcome back to on Purpose, the place you come to
become happier healthier and more healed. I'm so grateful to
have conversations with friends, thought leaders, experts, athletes, musicians, people
from all walks of life and backgrounds who come here

(02:26):
to share their stories, share their experiences, and share their
insights so that all of us can grow together. Today
I get to invite one of my friends and someone
is really special to her too. So we have two
amazing guests, two friends, two people that I've got to
know over.

Speaker 3 (02:41):
The last couple of years.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
And today's conversation is going to be one that I
hope you listen to with your friends, with your family,
with your sisters, with your cousins, with your brothers. I
want this to be an episode that you consume with
someone else so that you can discuss it just like
we will. You can dissect it just like we will,
and you can share in the experience with someone else. Today,
I'd like to introduce my two guests. One of them

(03:03):
is someone we've had on the show before. She absolutely
crushed it Last Time You Love the Episode. Her name
is Alexis Wren, one of the most influential personalities on
social media, with over eighteen million followers on Instagram alone.
Alexis is an American entrepreneur, model, and advocate for mental
health and self empowerment and our second guest who is

(03:24):
on the show as well as Ali Michelle. She's a
three times best selling author, viral spoken word artist, and
Ali is also a certified yoga, breath work, meditation, reiki
and cranio sacral therapist. Alexis and Ali launched We Are Warriors,
a female driven mind, body wellness community that focuses on

(03:45):
fostering and cultivating self growth, love and strength for women
around the world. Alexis and Ali launch their new journal,
which I'm so excited to have in my hands right now.
It's out right now as well, that guides you through
the depths of your your subconscious, helping you uncover the
wise behind your patterns and offering eye opening insights into

(04:06):
your own behavior and emotions. Go and grab your copy
right now. I can't recommend this enough. Please, Welcome to
the show, Alexis and Ali, thank you so much for
being here.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Oh my god, I could just listen to your talk
all day.

Speaker 3 (04:18):
My goodness, we were remembering when you were here. A
couple of years ago.

Speaker 1 (04:21):
We had a sacred care turn ceremony at the home
and both of you joined, which is so beautiful, and
I'm so excited to have you back on the show.
Alexis Ali. I'm so excited to have you on the
show for the first time, and I want to start
by just getting to understand how you too became friends
and how you met. I think it's always beautiful for

(04:42):
our audience to hear how two powerhouse humans have come
together to create beautiful things in the world. You also
have your podcast releasing this summer, I believe, and it's
called Easy A Easy.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
I love that title.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
I love the movie so Easy A coming out this
summer as well, and you're launching that together. But I'd
love to hear the origin story of how this relationship
became to be, so I'll leave it to you to
figure out how do you tell that story.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
It was a super synchronistic one. We met when we
were what twelve, thirteen, eleven eleven. She remembers everything. I
just had jokes here and there. We became very very close,
very quickly. I think one of the reasons that we
always stayed friends was we never held each other to
a certain type of relationship. We were very fluid with
our friendship. But it didn't really cement until my mom

(05:31):
got sick. When that started to happen to my family,
her mom stepped in, her whole family stepped in, and
then when my mom passed, they actually adopted me, and
I actually moved in with them, and her mom taught
me about taxes and business and got me into all
sorts of book Mary Williamson kind of set me on

(05:51):
my path and reminded me of who I was. And
then after that we just knew that this was going
to be a lifelong relationship and a very unique one
that because we're actually kind of pull her off plus
couldn't be more different. I think because of that, we
blend really nicely with each other. And we always knew
there was going to be some kind of path, divine

(06:12):
path for us, but we didn't know what and how,
And for a while we just kind of let each
other go off and do different things. I went more
of the traditional Hollywood route, and then she went and
started traveling. And we always have this funny joke like
I'll take care of our outsides and she takes care
of our insides, and like that's how we got to
do this. And then things started manifesting for us to

(06:34):
actually start working together. When Warriors was founded in twenty twenty,
it morphed into so many different things. But then at
one point I was like, it would make so much
sense to bring Ali on here because she's literally she's
my other hearts, she's my other brain. I trust her
opinion as much as I trust my own, and so
bringing her on to Weird Warriors just felt right. And
then through that, she's really helped me just harness and

(06:55):
strengthen what that community does for the girls and for
everyone in it. And so far we've already tackled like
almost ten thousand girls in and out of that community.
And it's pretty insane because now we've actually become the
big sister mentors and yeah, essentially become the girls that
we needed when we were flailing around being like, what

(07:17):
is our papist? The weight of the world on our shoulders,
we need to save the earth. And now we're just
kind of coming back around to that joyful playfulness and
seeing where it takes us. And then Warriors kind of
got us ready for the podcast, and that was really
nice because because it's gated, we had this opportunity to
just learn how to speak to a crowd and learn

(07:39):
how to host essentially because it is a talent and
you're one of the best, I will say, my goodness, gracious,
like no one tops to you. And so through that
we got really comfortable with being able to balance each
other out in that way, and then it just made sense.
And of course, selfishly, there's so many people me and
Ali want to talk to. We've always just been so
curious about different people of all landscapes. I'm sure that's
one of the reasons. You also got into it, because

(08:01):
it's just so cool you have an excuse to just
speak to anyone that you've ever wanted to, and so
now we actually have that excuse to do that.

Speaker 4 (08:08):
Yeah, I mean, I think Warriors is really a love
letter to her mom, because she was always into the
holistic health stuff of you know, acupuncture and meditation, and
so she really introduced me to all of that. So
it just feels like she almost brought us together for Warriors.
But to your point, I think the beautiful thing is
we've never held each other hostage to a specific version
or you know, judge each other for our choices or

(08:29):
tried to change one another. And so for me, it's
been my greatest example of a healthy love exactly.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
We really taught each other how to communicate in the
hardest ways possibility.

Speaker 1 (08:40):
You know, well, that's actually when I was thinking about
when I was preparing for this interview. That was actually
what was on my heart that I wanted to understand
how you do that and even hearing you both describe
it as we've allowed this relationship to be fluid, and
it's taken on many forms. I think when you're young, especially,
we have this idea of this is my best friend,

(09:02):
and this is my next best friend, and.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
This person's right.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
We live in this kind of very binary world when
we're kids, and so we do put people in boxes
and we do label people. And then sometimes those labels
last as we get older, and sometimes they fade away,
and sometimes we still act like kids even when we're
older with how we see our relationships. How did you
both develop that ability to allow each other to be

(09:28):
who you were separately, Like you just said, Alexis, you
were like I went down the Hollywood route, you know, Ali,
you went traveling. You went seems like down the healing
route quite as a priority externally as well. Even though
Alexis was doing that internally, but her external career was different.
How did you allow each other to be who you
were independently but still respect each other and connect because

(09:51):
I think that seems to be a big need in
our world today, whether it's friendships, whether it's romantic relationships,
whether it's business and professional relationships. I think we live
at a time when it's so easy to judge each other.
How did you develop that over time? Was it always
like that or was there a time when you like, oh,
you know, she sewed out or she's like did you

(10:11):
have those assumptions about each other?

Speaker 4 (10:13):
I mean we butt heads, of course because we're opposites,
but our north stars are the same. And I think
that's what sees us through is there's something so much
bigger than us. And you know, especially because we made
it through the loss of her mom together, it didn't
really matter if we were fighting because I'm going to talk.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
To you next week.

Speaker 4 (10:29):
We're family and so, you know, I think when you
have such a clear devotion to someone, it doesn't really
matter what shape it takes.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
It reminds me of that one poem where you talk
about the marriage and how the guy was like, I've
been married for x amount of years and someone was like,
I'll let you. I'm butchering it, but gone.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
So I watched this interview of these couples who had
been together for sixty plus years, and there was one
that had been together for sixty seven and the interviewer
looks at the husband and says, how have you been
with the same woman for so long? And he says,
she hasn't been the same woman at all.

Speaker 1 (11:03):
Yeah, there's so much evolution and so much growth, But
I guess that's what it is, right. I feel like
as humans, we have a resistance to other people growing,
just as we have a limitation on who we can be,
and we almost extend that limitation to others as well.
When you saw each other grow in different ways, maybe

(11:24):
incongruent ways, random ways, what allowed you to have difficult
but healthy conversations around that? And I'm speaking from my
personal experience, even I've only been with Radi for eleven
years only, and no, but in the.

Speaker 3 (11:38):
Sense of compared to sixty seven.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
I was like, oh, yeah, like, we've been together for
eleven years, and I agree with that statement completely, Like
Radi has transformed in so many ways in the last
eleven years since I met her, I fully agree with that,
but that evolution requires two people to sign up to
that and subscribe to that. So with those moments where

(12:01):
you saw each other going through these big or small
changes and how did you adapt with each.

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Other, we would definitely trigger each other. But then we
had enough wisdom where we knew when there was a trigger,
there was a path we had to take in order
to get through that ego and then into the growth part.
So and we also we truly do love watching each
other grow. It gives us a lot of joy. And
we've also never held each other back. If I disagree
with her, for instance, I will state that truth immediately.

(12:28):
I'll be like, I disagree with you, but I absolutely
respect your decision. I'm gonna love you no matter what,
you know, whatever happens, I was right. She loves to
always be right, and she usually is. That's the unfortunate thing.
But then I think that's always the nuanced way to communicate.
Is I just you have to voice that, because if
you don't, then there's this pacific there's this resentment that

(12:49):
builds in the relationship, and then you can't harness authenticity.
So with her, it's like I have to state this,
but I also am gonna let you be you. And
so that's always been our rule with each other, is
that we kind of dance on the ashes of who
we once were, and we never hold each other to
this idea of who we're supposed to be. But she's

(13:10):
also just become such an incredible woman, and it's been
so almost a real watching it happen, because you've known
each other since you were twelve. It's just I mean,
I always think if I would have told twelve year
old Ali that you were speaking in front of five
hundred people at conferences and traveling all of the world
doing spoken word, it would that twelve year old you

(13:33):
would literally run into a closet, like what is actually
going on right now? But I think that's also when
we hold each other accountable for growth, that's the main thing,
because there's going to be a lot of friction with
that always I've noticed in my own life and I'm
assuming with you as well. Wherever there's the most resistance,
there's also the most transformation. And we've always had actually
the most resistance in our friendship, Like we've gone through

(13:57):
so many different versions of ourselves. We've stopped talking for
six months we've gone I think our limit was like
a year without talking, and then we always like got
back into it. It's almost that feminine energy of just
letting it flow as opposed to trying to put this
like expectation of the friendship, because I think that is
why relationships in any shape or form kind of become stagnant,

(14:18):
because we're holding this idea of someone to them and
then they resent it because they're trying to grow our
ego's heart because you don't want them to move out
of that box that you're so comfortable that they're being.
And this happens weekly with us, I think, a really honest,
vulnerable relationship, it's an almost daily thing we have to
go through. But then it's fun because now we look
at who we are as like these little avatars, and

(14:41):
we can add different attributes to each other and just
be like I think I want to be funnier or
I think I want to, you know, be grittier or
like and we just we have these really honest conversations
with about ourselves and then we build together, like truly
we've built ourselves together. And then of course that over
you know that the energy of my mom kind of
always being there. It feels really divine and sacred, and

(15:05):
I think that really is what drives everything we do.

Speaker 4 (15:09):
Yeah, I was put on Riddlin and adderall and just
different add medications super young, around like ten or eleven,
and it kind of snuffed out my creativity. And her
mom was one of the people that helped turn.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
My light on inside.

Speaker 4 (15:23):
And so there is just this greater devotion to her
that I feel. And I think our culture, Western culture
is particularly noncommittal. There's almost this one foot in, one
foot out. We have so many options. I don't know
which one to take, but there's actually a freedom that
happens when you just fully plant both feet on the
ground and say, like, this is what I'm committed to.

Speaker 2 (15:41):
It's contradicting, it's so contradicting.

Speaker 4 (15:44):
But I think also because it's not a romantic relationship,
but there's so much room to breathe, you know, there
there are way less expectations, and because we're fully committed
to each other, we just figure it out. Like now,
we communicate a lot better by writing each other letters
because if we step on a tender spe but and
it gets.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Really reactive emotion. Feel now conclusion now, and she's like
five to ten business days please, And so we really
had like I need to withtrash. It's like I need
to explode. I'm like, how about a letter?

Speaker 4 (16:13):
So it's that it's finding whatever it can be a
bridge between you.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
What was the reason that you went on the medications
and then what talked to me about the journey of
finding your way with that? Because it sounds like obviously
right now creativity is by the way, if anyone has
not seen I'm speaking to the audience right now, if
any of you have not seen, Ali and Alexis performed
spoken word together insane.

Speaker 3 (16:36):
That was amazing.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
But I remember seeing that common to her immediately. I
remember it coming out. I think I even shared it.

Speaker 3 (16:41):
It came up.

Speaker 1 (16:42):
I think it was on my TikTok feed or maybe
it was on Instagram. But that was spectacular. It was
so good, Like how I don't know how long it
took you to write it, and you're both going to
say like two hours or something, but it was believe
it was so good, like it was so powerful, like
every line. So obviously you've tapped into that now and
that seems to be the greatest part of your expression.

(17:04):
But to hear that actually, based on the medications you
were on, that was dampened. Walk us through that a
little bit, just to give the audience context.

Speaker 4 (17:11):
I just think there's so many different types of intelligence,
and I have a natural inclination towards creative and emotional intelligence.
But my sister, for example, had like a semi photographic
memory and just got incredible grades and was very smart
in a specific way. And so when you're in school
and the system is kind of a one size fits
all for the most part, it's very difficult as a
kid to have high self esteem if that's not a

(17:34):
value that's within the school.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
And so her mom, you know, was.

Speaker 4 (17:37):
Such a huge help in that of no, this is
really valuable, Like, no, you are intuitive, No, it's okay,
Like you can express your creativity.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
She had to deal with me and being like I
can't do math, and she's like, it's okay, your value
somewhere else. Everyone has.

Speaker 4 (17:54):
No really, everyone has their deck of cards to play.
Some people are like goodwill hunting, you know, and some
people are like art, and some people can grow the
perfect flower. And it's all should weigh equally on a scale.
In my opinion, So I think it was that journey
of just learning to believe in myself in that way
and place value on my gifts that maybe society didn't.

Speaker 3 (18:13):
Oh that's so beautiful.

Speaker 1 (18:14):
I want to come back to that because I love
that theme and I love the examples you just shared that.
I was watching an interview, or at least a clip
of an interview where Melinda Gates, who just came on
the show. She was interviewing Oprah has been on the show,
and Gail King and so Milinda's interviewing them, and it's
all about female friendships and relationships. And Oprah said something

(18:36):
that really stood out to me. She said that the
reason why she's been able to be friends with Gail
for so long is because she's one of the few
people who's not been envious of her. And I was
thinking about that, and it really resonated with me, and
I started to realize how all the friendships I had
that have lasted on non envious friendships, and all the friendships,
business partnerships, even relationships romantic relationships that didn't last or

(19:01):
had envy in them somewhere, whether someone was envious or
insecure about you, whether someone was envious in a business sense,
whether someone was envious. I remember guy friends when you
were teenagers being like, oh, let's see who can get
more numbers tonight from girls? And I'm like, why does
it have to be that? I thought we were friends?
Like when did this turn into a competition? And it's
interesting how what starts off as innocent teenage competitiveness kind

(19:25):
of can transcend into our adult life as well. Talk
to me as to how you keep envy at bay
in a friendship like this and a business partnership like this,
because I think it is the crux of the quality
of relationship you have, and it's not talked about enough.
I think it's a really uncomfortable, awkward thing to talk about.
But I genuinely believe that my best friend, who was

(19:46):
my best man at my wedding, the reason why we're
best friends and have been for the past twenty years
is because he's not envious in me, and I'm not
envious of him. Even that doesn't mean that I'm not
proud of him and I don't admire him and he
doesn't that of me. But there isn't that sense. Would
you agree? Would you disagree? How do you feel I
want to hear about it? From you guys.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
For me personally, it always makes me like my lovely.
My love language is like helping people become better. I
think that's acts of service in a form. We call
it ratification improvement. I love. I love helping people improve.
I always have this like vision for them, and I
get really excited when I can help, you know, make
that vision come to life. So and and for me,

(20:24):
I always, you know, coming from the homeschooling background, I
never felt intelligently adequate enough. And but she was, you know,
in her own rights, so intelligent, and so I think
we almost reassured each other, you know. For her, she
was insecure about you know, you know, in that awkward
teenage phase, and I was just way too confident at

(20:47):
that age. So we mediated each other.

Speaker 4 (20:49):
I was had a University of Racist and she was
a Lexus run.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Let's just but we we we validated each other where
our wounds were most apparent. And that's why there is
no envy, because I almost look at her as like
the same way I would look at myself, like a
project that I that I helped create, that I helped,

(21:13):
you know, and vice versa. She she helped me. Really,
I mean, I wouldn't be who truly, I wouldn't be
who I am without you, and even thinking to our
first you know, conversation on this podcast, it was so
much of the things that I said, you know, we're
in honor of her, and conversations that I've had with
her they gave and shot at her out in the book.
I was just like, Ali, yeah, I just I wouldn't

(21:35):
have believed in my depth if it wasn't for her,
just really calmly next to me, being like, you're good,
you got this, you have it too, and me vice
versa with you know, wearing that dress or doing those
you know, more of those exterior things of like not
like the time is now, like put on that dress,
let's get your like just caring so much so that

(21:55):
it's okay to care about it, because I think when
you're so vulnerable about a specific attribute that you don't
feel confident in, you almost want to pretend not to
care about it because you're like, ah, like I don't
care about how I look her. It's fine, I don't
care if I know math or whatever. But it's actually
where you care deeply.

Speaker 4 (22:12):
But you're also like I should say, Alexis is like
a genie, and she makes her friend streams her dreams.
Like she went to a corporate company to the head,
marched on his office and said, you're going to hire
my friend, and how do you?

Speaker 3 (22:24):
Was there?

Speaker 4 (22:24):
Actually there was no position, like this didn't exist, and
she convinced this owner of a really successful company to
just create a position for her friend because she was
in an unhealthy job setting. And so Alexis just does
this for everyone. Like our other friend almost lost her
script and she was calling eight different agents. She's just
really supportive. And I think that's the beauty is she's

(22:46):
the archetype of the ruler, which means she serves her people,
and so she makes everyone's dreams belong to her. And
I think that's the key, is like you have to
nurture your friend's dreams like they're your own too.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
And the mudicians, so tell them, tell them a little
bit about that.

Speaker 3 (23:04):
Yeah, we've done.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
This actually with the community.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
There's there's a book by Carol Pearson and I think
it's called the Twelve Archetypes or something that but if
you look.

Speaker 2 (23:14):
At them, thank you.

Speaker 4 (23:16):
But it goes to the twelve major archetypes within our
subconscious and a lot of it is based on Carl
Jung's psychology, and I personally love storytelling in fairy tales
as a way to translate wisdom. And so there's this
book called erth c as well, where this young sorcerer
releases a demon shadow into the world, and the way
that he stops it is he gives it his own name.
And so by naming the shadow, it ceases to have power.

(23:38):
And when you use these kind of archetypes, rather than
clinging to one identity of like I am this, I
am that, I'm a Pisces, I'm a you know, Capricorn, whatever.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
It is, I'm a three.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
And he's like, this is the aspect of my subconscious
that I'm wielding right now with this different archetype, And
so it creates more compassionate understanding, and to me, it
also helps me name my shadow a lot clearer.

Speaker 2 (24:00):
So yeah, and that's why I love the archetypes, because
it's you're never one. It's just what you're building with
right now. So you could go back and look, Okay,
the orphan archetype needs more work, or you were saying, America,
actually the lard we have the most connection to the
orphan archetype because we all kind of come here for
this dream or come here from other places, and it's
kind of the like do I belong here? Where do

(24:21):
I belong? So I think different countries to also build
on different archetypes depending on their culture. So it's really interesting.
And what I found the most funny about all of
this was the ruler and the magician have this really
interesting relationship. It's the most volatile pairing.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I love that because so.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
Look at King Arthur and Merlin. That's a great example.
They're equally important to each other. But the downfall of
that would be like a tyrant king I think Geoffrey
from Game of Thrones or something, and then ja'far from Aladdin.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
It's the evil sorcerer and then the wicked ruler.

Speaker 4 (24:59):
And so we hold each other accountable in that way
if we're sitting at two opposite ends of this power spectrum,
and we keep each other from slipping into like evil
sorcer and tyyrant.

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Whenever we're having a disagreement, I'm like, am I being
a tired Okay, we're just gonna write a letter like
please don't unname me.

Speaker 4 (25:18):
But I just love looking at people like characters and
books because it creates so much more compassion, because if
you had a perfect character, it would be really boring
to read about. You know. It's all those idiosyncrasies that
make them so unique.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
So I think that helps too, And that's why I
think that's truly like her perception of that is why
I've loved myself so much, because all of these little
quirks I've had, She's like, keep going, keep doing it.
Like she'll give me the little check mark in a
conversation with people and I'll just go off. And I
love it because she kind of gives me permission. She's

(25:50):
a little permission slip to just, yeah, lean into those
quirky parts of me that I felt for a really
long time I needed to like hold back and keep tight.
And that's been really cool.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
And it's really cool too because her fantasy book, she
put a character in for me, and that was really
cool as well, because reading it, I was like, One,
I'm immortalized, which is crazy. Two I'm awesome, Oh my god,
is this how you perceive me? Yes. Now, whenever someone says, oh,
Run's my favorite character in Ali's book, I'm like.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
What I love about? What it's bringing out for me.
Going back to the question of envy, is that what
I found is that when you understand your place and
your pace of growth, which is the archetype, and when
you understand someone else's place and their pace of growth,
it allows you to be non envious because it allows
you to see that you're moving at your own pace
and you have a place forever, and that that person

(26:48):
does too. And I find that the reason we experience
env is because we don't know where we stand and
we kind of like where someone else stands, even though
that may not be the platform for us to be on.
And so it's this constant tug in war between I
like this person, but I also want to be like them,
and actually, not only do I want to be like them,

(27:09):
I don't want them to be liked that much. And
that's where envy kind of takes over so much of
a friendship. So I'm so glad you talked about the
archetypes a little bit. Is there a test that people
can take, Like, if people want to understand the archetype,
how would you suggest they go about that?

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Yeah, Carol Pearson has a website and then if you
get the book too, it's in the book.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
It's a large books.

Speaker 4 (27:28):
It's a huge book for a textbook, but I like
it because it's it's fluid. You know, it's not as
awakening the heroes awakening all right.

Speaker 3 (27:36):
If anyone's listening. And I love that.

Speaker 1 (27:38):
And you've been teaching that in Warriors as well. That's
been something that you've been sharing with your community.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
Literally anything, we'll just like pick up a book or
we'll have a conversation. I mean, I remember I was
literally last week when to her crying about not going
to say on this podcast. But I was like, and
then she's slowly like, I'm going to write the Warrior
Workshop and what was it? Navigating the unknown?

Speaker 4 (28:02):
There's been so many times when we've just created workshops
around what we're personally experienced because it's resonance, and so yeah,
we'll make workshops around anything that feels very alive in
the moment, because I find the girls are often going
through similar things in their own way.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I wanted to talk about that, Actually, what would you say,
having built this community, You've had thousands of women who've
been a part of this community.

Speaker 3 (28:21):
It's growing.

Speaker 1 (28:23):
If you had to pick and I know this is
a hard exercise, but I want to do it for
the basis of our conversation today. If you had to
pick the top three challenges, and we'll just start with
the top one challenge that you hear, would you feel
is that the root of so many women's challenges in
your community, and of course broader than that too.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
What is that? One?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Two, three? What are those three things? In no particular order,
but what would you say those themes are that are
holding women back, that they're constantly perplexed by, that they
are feeling limited restricted by.

Speaker 3 (28:57):
What would they be?

Speaker 2 (28:57):
The first one that came to my mind is really
knowing and understanding your own femininity, because I think this
is especially in America, it's very like masculine dominated to
build your empire, blah blah blah, and I think we
get as females, get really lost in that because the female,
you know, energy is to attract and the male energy
is to like make happen, and both are needed, but

(29:18):
so many girls they kind of spin out, even just
from a biological level, you know, there's we're a different
person every single week. Then they feel like they have
to like push down the doors the way with that
masculine energy forever and they're exhausted, being like, is this
live in my dream life? And I'm like, no, it's
just a belief you're having that's probably not helping you.

(29:39):
And so we kind of will help them break down
what those beliefs are. But it usually has to do
with them not honoring their feminity in some way, shape
or form, and we have to remind each other of
that because even with the podcast, like this idea of
divine timing has been so helpful because when I, you know,
went into more of the business side of things, it

(30:00):
was like, there's a deadline we have, but no, now,
even when it didn't feel good, we would just kind
of stick to these deadlines. But with the podcast, it
was like, we're gonna launch this month, No we're not. Okay,
keep it moving, and we just kind of kept waiting
and waiting and waiting until yeah, you're in conversation. Yeah,
And we just kind of waited until it was the
right moment at the right time, and all all of
the you know, components came together so beautifully, and so

(30:23):
that was what that's when I was like, Okay, there's
this theme happening here. And even with the girls as well.
There's this theme of kind of running up to this
wall and then trying to push it, as opposed to
letting the opening of the cave, you know, come through
and then walking it. So I think that's definitely one.

Speaker 3 (30:39):
Let's talk about that. Let's talk about that together.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
I think that's such a huge one and I'm fascinated
by it. How does someone start to embrace or encourage
their feminine energy in a world that's a masculine dominant
or at least would you describe it as the masculine
storyline has been Yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:57):
It's more the storyline. I think it's just you have
to break down the beliefs. So you have to understand
what beliefs your It's like the car or what beliefs,
what wheels the let's say the beliefs are the wheels,
like what is driving you down that way? And then
once you understand, okay, that's those are the beliefs that
have been manifesting this creation, this life. What are the

(31:18):
beliefs that I would like to have? I still remember
I was with a friend and we were walking around
a pond one day and she was like, remember when
we believed things had to be hard? And I was like,
I know, so it. You know, belief is a thought
that you just have over and over and over again
until you think it's just your life and it's ingrained
into you and it's permanent, when it's really not. So
part of that has been just showing people and acting

(31:40):
is taught a lot for me. I've learned so much
about this for acting where I'm like, that's actually you
were so much more fluid, And it really is just
breaking down what these really tall structures are and then
chiseling at them just little by little, and it probably
not all at once. We usually take like one solid
belief that they have and then either make a workshop

(32:01):
from that and break it down even more. But that
for sure is definitely a way.

Speaker 1 (32:05):
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That's ka jabi dot com forward slash jshetty kujabi dot
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have made over seven billion dollars. What are some of
those beliefs, Sally, maybe as well that you think are
those restricting feminine energy and kind of blocking the women

(33:38):
from their potential in the community.

Speaker 4 (33:40):
I think beauty is a huge one, actually, because beauty
has provided security for women for thousands of years, primarily
just you know, if you become this attractive thing, then
you'll find a mate that can protect you. And so
people call it, you know, a surface level or whatever
it might be. But there is like this primal hardware,
secure purity that we're raging against in a way. And

(34:03):
I used to live in a house full of musicians
and there was this one guy who could just belt,
like from the bottom of his soul, and another girl
in the house who could sing so beautifully, but she's
sang very softly, like she was singing into a bottle.
And she finally turns to him and she goes, how
do you sing that way? Like I know that's in me,
but I can't get there. And he says, make an

(34:23):
ugly face, and she makes this like cute little ugly face,
and he said, I said, make a real ugly face,
and she does, and he said, that's where you need
to sing from. And then she did, and her voice
cracked a little, but she belted. And so it's that
we need permission to kind of break out of this
porcelain suit that we walk around in nowadays, because that's

(34:44):
where our power comes from.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
Wow, that's so powerful.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
I mean, that's I feel like all of us can
relate to that in so many ways, and I feel
like it's so difficult. It goes back to what Alexis
was saying earlier, that you've given her the permission to
have all these quirks and be all of her. And
I've definitely had that where I feel the people who
know me the deepest and the most well will say
to me, Jay, one of the things I love about

(35:09):
you is I get to talk to you about spirituality, business,
and media, and there's not many people I could talk
to about all three of those things, and that's like
the most It's one of those moments whenever I hear
that from someone who spent a lot of time with
me and spend deep time with me, I feel so
seen because I want to be all those things, and
I appreciate all those things, and I admire all those things.

(35:31):
I want to talk about my monk life as much
as I want to talk about media, as much as
I want to talk about marketing like and H and
I love all of it and I am all of
it and all of it is me. But I find
often that I'm forced to choose a box to put
myself in. It's like, oh, you can either be spiritual
or your material, or you can either be like you're saying,
you can either be this porcelain doll, or you can

(35:54):
be ugly or whatever like that, there's a choice there
that all of a sudden like diff finds who you are.
Talk to me about some of the practices you both
have developed. I definitely want to talk about the journal
as well, but talk to me about some of the
practices you've developed, because we all know, all three of
us know that this isn't as simple as just standing
in front of the mirror and saying things to yourself.
That's a part of it. But it's like, this is

(36:16):
a deep, subconscious belief that we're having to rewire, and
we're doing it at the same time while the propaganda
and the broadcasting from the world around us is so
strongly the other way. And so walk me through some
of the exercises, maybe some of them that are in
the journal that you love, some that you've practiced. You
both keep talking about letters, and I know the journal
is full of letters. So just maybe give me a

(36:37):
couple of insights and steps and principles eats that you
feel have been profound for your own journey, or maybe
you even have stories of people that you've helped that
they've practiced some of these techniques.

Speaker 2 (36:47):
I feel like all these practices sound like, oh, roll
my eyes, Okay, fine, I'll write a little five minute
journal gratitude whatever. Like you think they're not important, but
when you actually apply them, it's like, whoa a doctor McCall,
he's this wonderful natopathic doctor. Or that we had on
the podcast, he was talking about a way to kind
of deal with a trigger in real time, because I
think every time there's a trigger, there's a little blockage

(37:09):
that happens in our body, and disease is the you know,
physical manifestation of all of these different triggers getting blocked
in no way out. And one of the things that
he said in his book was the second that someone
triggers you, you have to immediately think back and just
be like, okay, why did that trigger me? Go to
the little the child's self, and then have a quick

(37:30):
in the moment, even if you're with them, you literally
have to do it in my brain. I'm just like, okay,
why did that trigger me? For instance, I was in
the car with a friend and there was my car
went off and saying that there was a flat tire
and it was the second time this month, and I
was just like ooh, and I braced myself for this
really stressful situation that we were going to have, and
my friend was just like, oh well, and I was like,

(37:52):
and that triggered me that he was so calm about it.
And then I asked myself, why am I triggered by
this tire that it's going to be fine? And then
I'm also double trigger that he was so calm about it.
And I realized because my household was so chaotic, that
one more thing would have blown up the whole, like
just it was just a compilation of triggers, and we

(38:12):
the electricity went out and this went out, and so
all of these tiny little things created this huge explosion
in my childhood. And so I had this moment where
I just held myself and I was like, it's okay.
Your family's reactions to these little bad things happening was
not valid. It wasn't okay for you to see that
much stress with something that was so easy to fix.
And I'm sorry, and you're scene and your love and

(38:33):
it was the first time where the trigger went away
instantly and didn't store into my body. So I think
that was that's been the most transformational thing I've found
right now.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
I love Yeah, while you were talking about that, I
can think of so many scenarios where I can see
that as being practical and useful.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, but it has to you have to do it
the moment.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
We don't want to do it because you're.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
Like, I'm just triggering. I want to sit in the
hurt because it's.

Speaker 3 (38:58):
Valid Yeah, yeah, I know. I love that.

Speaker 4 (39:02):
I think whatever I get validated for the most in
life becomes my porcelain suit.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
And so for a while, oh so good. I was
the deep one, and so I couldn't be funny.

Speaker 4 (39:11):
I was like, let me speak and bumper sticker and
be as spiritual as possible because that's how I belong.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
And so it's about making the ugly face for me.

Speaker 4 (39:19):
And I had this poetry mentor and I first started
doing spoken word and I was trying to sound very
melodic and he said, I want you to scream, and
I screamed the poem and he starts smacking me with
a pillow and he's like, now jump up and down
and wave your arms.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
I'm like, this feels so bad. I don't feel cool
at all.

Speaker 4 (39:35):
And that was the point, was to just kind of
slip out of my cool so I could tap into
what was really honest.

Speaker 1 (39:42):
Yeah, no, that's such a I mean, I can relate
to that. So that to so many guests where I
just felt like, I just feel like everyone's just waiting
for me to say something. And at one point I
really carried it as a weight where I realized I
stopped listening to people because I was just thinking in
my head what to say. And then I realized that

(40:02):
not only was I never going to say something profound
if I didn't listen, but that maybe sometimes the most
profound thing to do was to listen.

Speaker 3 (40:11):
Like that was it, like it didn't even need a word.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
And I remember a famous statement by Saint Francis where
he said that you should preach wherever you go and
if necessary, open your mouth.

Speaker 3 (40:25):
And I love that.

Speaker 1 (40:25):
It's like that idea of just like you know, we
always feel like, yes, saying the thing is is the thing,
and it's like, well, no, just being present and just
listening and just being there and like you just said,
like holding yourself internally during a trigger.

Speaker 3 (40:39):
It's not like you had to say something or repeat something.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
You get a high off of the wisdom, and then
you don't actually integrate it. At least for me for
a while, whenever I would hear something profound out of
my own mouth or I would I would be like
cos and write it down, and then it just kind
of became a game as opposed to real integration. I
can so relate to that, and I resonate so deeply
with what you're saying about just trying to make something

(41:03):
profound in life changing because me and Ali personally are exhausted.
I don't want to be profound fun and then have
a good conversation and if it happens, it happens. It doesn't,
it doesn't, But like letting it be what it is,
as opposed to trying to put the moment in a box.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
In a way, I've seen that with all my friends
who are you know, successful comedians. I'm sure we have
people in common, like they just feel the pressure that
if they're not funny at dinner, and they're not funny
at breakfast, and they're not funny at lunch, it's like
people are going to think, oh, you're not that funny,
You're not that interesting, and they're like, well, no, there's
so much more to me. And it's giving yourself that
permission and also recognizing we live in a society where

(41:41):
it's like we think when we meet a dentist, they're
analyzing our teeth, like that's all they must think about today.

Speaker 3 (41:50):
And they're not.

Speaker 1 (41:50):
They're not thinking about that, and and but we are.
And I think that's such an important that's such an
important tool and principle. I remember when Russ came on
the podcast. He talks about how when all of his
squad and his crew would come into the studio, he
would try and act cool, and he'd make the worst music.
And so he said his favorite thing to do was

(42:11):
get everyone out the studio and make weird sounds into
the microphone and stand in weird places and do really
strange things, kind of like what you're saying, because he
said that was the only way I could break the mold,
because if my friends were in there, I was just
trying to look and sound cool. And I think everyone
has their version of it, whether you're a rapper, whether
you're a teacher or a guide, or whether you're.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Acting as well like me and my friends, we like
host little acting classes, just the three of us. But
like one of these acting techniques that we do is
just like follow your little child self, Like if you
want to lay down, if you want to look at
yourself the mirror, if you want to jump up down.
It's like knowing what those intuitive pulses are is what
gets you into that flow state. But if you don't

(42:51):
know what it is, and because everyone's different in their
own way and how they pull out the creativity or
the profoundness or the flow state, whatever it is. I
think that's what's so almost ironic about this whole, the
whole spiritual journey, because it's realizing that it was just
supposed to be fun and oh we were just supposed
to be children all along, just like kind of playing
with it and having fun and taking all of that

(43:12):
weight and knowledge off of it so then wisdom can integrate,
because that was literally our entire life like for the
last two years has just been like, oh.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Fun, yeah, what What's something else would you say that
the community struggles with? So we started with that big
one is what else is there? What else comes up
for people?

Speaker 4 (43:32):
I mean just basic adult things like how to regulate
your own nervous system and do taxes. You know, I
don't know why those are the two most valuable things
as an adult in modern society.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
No, yeah, you need to know, but I.

Speaker 4 (43:47):
Feel like you're not really prepared for life and traditional schooling,
and so that's a huge passion. It's just you know,
bringing on financial educators, bringing on breathwork teachers, meditation teachers,
and really just handing tools to these women. It's the
teacher man a fish story, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
Yeah, I think that's the that's the difference. It's like,
we're not coming on here being a therapist. We're just
coming on here being big sisters, being like, here are
the right questions so you can get to your answers,
but that you have to learn how to get there yourself,
because that's what being a leader is. And that's what's
so cool because then on the reverse end of that,
watching girls go from seventeen to twenty two years old

(44:24):
and seeing that growth, it is the most fulfilling thing ever.
Just knowing that our work with some of our girls
will go on to their parenting and their life partners
and the people around them and their friends, and it's
just it's incredible to see the ripple effect of that
deeper work. It's so cool because we're like our warriors
are kind of like little light bulbs just glowing walking

(44:47):
around the earth, you know, spreading what it means to
live a fulfilled life and not be afraid of that desire.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
And it's amazing you're working with women as young as seventeen,
and yeah, that's incredible. I love that people are starting
that early and doing the work and finding that mentorship
and advice because I feel like we're all trying to
come to as early as we possibly can.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Then I know, it's like that's a competition itself. That's
something that I've noticed too, is a lot of people
who are older than me, not by much, but they're like, oh,
I wish I had that wisdom when I was your age,
And I was like, it's not a competition, it's really not,
because this information, this knowledge, this wisdom sometimes weighed me
down as to what you were saying, because then it
put me in this box that I need to always

(45:28):
fill and make sure people see and value me in
that box. And for a while, for me, it was
beauty and looks and like that felt so like Okay,
this is this is my little value box. I'm sit
in here and do the best that I can and
like work and be the best of that that I
can be. Being so afraid of not being loved when
you know, I had a pimple, which it sounds so silly,

(45:51):
but it's so deeply rooted into us. But yeah, no,
like the experience being human in all different ways. But
what I've noticed too is when you finally realize you're
in a box, you're like, I'll just get a bigger box.
I just jumped to bigger boxes. And that's why, like
you know, when we were talking about spoken word and poetry,

(46:11):
it's like I wrote that one poem about paradoxes and
how it's kind of just like it's both. It's not
this or that, it's always going to be both. And
that's why when you're looking for another box, you're already
in the wrong. Because for a while I was like, Okay,
if I don't want to be valued for just my looks,
then I'm going to do this and I'm going to
get into business. And I just added more boxes. I
didn't really evolve. But the beautiful thing about growth is

(46:35):
sometimes the outside doesn't have to change for the growth
to happen. And I think that's what was so cool
is when I realized, like, hey, I actually love dressing
up and being beautiful and feeling beautiful and validating my
friends for wanting to do that too, and telling them
to wear that up and telling them that we're going
out having all that, and knowing that it's coming from
this pure twelve year old, like just homeschooled girl that

(46:57):
you know, had nowhere to go, but just love fashion
so much that she wanted to make it happen. And
so externally nothing has changed, but my why has been
integrated so deeply that it feels now light and exciting
and happy. And then also understanding that wisdom itself comes
from those life experiences, and then also trusting that wisdom

(47:18):
can come from peace as well. I think for a
really long time I was I thought, Okay, if my
life isn't chaotic and there isn't these big lessons or
these things happening, that I'm not evolving, And then that
was just a belief I had. But when I realized
I could evolve and be in peace and go through
these motions and actually learn some of the deepest lessons
from the simplest of things. That's when I got exciting again,

(47:41):
because I didn't have to be on a rollercoaster anymore.
I was like, Oh, thank god.

Speaker 3 (47:46):
You've reminded me of something I wanted to read it.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
I just brought it up here because we're all on
the same page about this idea of just we've got
to be able to look at our ugly side, our
dark side, our shadows. So we've got to be able
to look at the subconscious and rewire our beliefs. We've
got to be able to then take action on it
outside and like you just beautifully said, like we do
just end up looking for bigger boxes or more boxes
to define ourselves. But I think often what's not talked

(48:10):
about is the discomfort in those transitions and how hard
it is to go from someone who says, well, all
I'm valued for is for my looks. Now I'm going
to get into business. And it reminded me of this speech,
and that's why I want to read parts of it.
I'm just trying to find the right part. This was
a Taylor Swift speech, and I believe it was at
the Billboard Awards years ago. Now it was a long

(48:32):
long time ago, but it was so powerful. I've seen
the video for it, and she said, let me just
find the exact part. So Taylor Swift said, And now
I realized that this is just what happens to a
woman in music if she achieved success or power beyond
people's comfort level. I now have come to expect that
with good news comes some sort of pushback. But I

(48:52):
didn't know that then. So then I decided that I
would be the only songwriter on my third album, Speak Now,
and that I would talk constantly, work on my vocals
every day, and perfect my stamina in the live show.
I decided I would be what they said I couldn't be.
I didn't know then that soon enough people would decide

(49:13):
on something else I wasn't quite doing right, and the
circle would keep going on and on and rolling along,
and I would keep accommodating over correcting in an effort
to appease my critics. They're saying I'm dating too much
in my twenties. Okay, I'll stop and just be single
for years now. They're saying my album Red is filled

(49:33):
with too many breakup songs. Okay, I'll make one about
moving to New York and deciding that really, my life
is more fun with just friends. Okay, they're saying my
music is changing too much for me to stay in
country music, all right. Okay, here's an entire genre shift
and a pop album called nineteen eighty nine.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Oh you heard it? Sick.

Speaker 1 (49:52):
Now it's that I'm showing you too many pictures of
me with my friends. Okay, I can stop doing that too.
Now I'm actually a calculated minute rather than a smart
business woman. Okay, I'll disappear from public view for years.
Now I'm being cast as a villain too. Okay, here's
an album called Reputation, and there are lots of snakes everywhere.
In the last ten years, I've watched as women in

(50:14):
this industry are criticized and measured up to each other
and picked out for their bodies and their romantic lives
and their fashion. Or have you heard someone say about
a male artist, I really like his songs, but I
don't know what it is. There's just something about him
I just don't like. No, that criticism is reserved for us.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
Anyway, there's watching that video of the way she delivers
that speech is so powerful, Like I.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Didn't do it justice at all.

Speaker 1 (50:37):
It's really powerful, but I feel like it's that constant
shape shifting that we all go through. It's like you
found your porcelain doll version and then you've realized it
wasn't you, so you decided to expand because you got
criticized for perfecting that thing. And it's almost like we
all go through that cycle where you practice something and
everyone likes you, or you start something and everyone laughs

(50:57):
at you. You practice something and everyone likes you and
you perfect and then everyone criticizes you, and then you
keep doing that on so many other levels. How do
you help yourselves and help others go through those uncomfortable
transitions because that moment you're being criticized for the thing
you thought everyone wanted you to do all the thing
that you thought you wanted to do is probably the hardest.

Speaker 3 (51:16):
Part of it.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
Yeah, it reminds me of what we were talking about
with making me a hero or a villain, and.

Speaker 4 (51:21):
The opening my fantasy book, the first line is make
me neither a hero nor a villain, both live within
all of us. Make me into whatever you need, but
don't take away my humanity by making a hero out
of me.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
So good, I love that, and that's so true.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
It's true because like once you get it's just in
our nature. When a person gets at a certain point,
it's uncomfortable for everyone, and then it's like all right,
time to pull them down from that level, pull the
level ground.

Speaker 4 (51:46):
Also, no living thing does well under a microscope. I mean,
I can't imagine if we all were judging each other's
actions twenty four hours a day. And I think that's
why the conversation about shape shifting and being fluid. Maybe
your core essence is the same and your values remain
the same, but whatever shape it takes, you know, life
is a dance.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Yeah, And I think that is part of the service
for me too, is that? And I know you posted
about this, Alexis. I thought you post something about this,
like I think it was a year or two back,
and it was a really thoughtful caption around what I
can't remember the exact language you use, but this idea
of what pseudo spirituality looks like.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Yeah, yeah, I remember that we went off about.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, and just that idea of just like how I
think part of it is. You know, I always grew
up believing that spiritual people were poor and that materialistic
people had things, and I was so wrong. I was like,
you know, spiritual people are abundant, like you know, it's

(52:46):
it's such an important quality of a spiritual individual. And
to me that became so much more prominent as I
grew older and matured and recognized the value as opposed
to this belief system that you know, you don't, you can't,
you shouldn't have anything, and you can't have anything, and
you can't create value for others, and not realizing that

(53:07):
we have a full team of people across the world
who are all working on a mission, who are providing
for their families because we are going out there and
building something abundant.

Speaker 3 (53:15):
This isn't about me.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
This is about so many people being supported, and we
often missed that in our world of I've just got
to take care of myself and no one else.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
And so are you? Are you pretty good with balancing
the feminine and masculine in yourself?

Speaker 1 (53:28):
I really want to talk about it with you too,
So you're going to have to tell me whether I am,
but you're going to have to teach us. And it's
so funny because I've had three people in my life
say something to me that when I first heard it,
I was like, watch what you're saying, and then now, yeah, exactly,
and now I'm like, no, that's me. So I've had
three people say this to me over the last like
eight years. Jay, you have the perfect balance of masculine

(53:52):
and feminine in the way you approach life. And the
first time I heard that, I was like, you what
you know? And my masculine ones triggered. And then now
I'm like, I really appreciate. I hope that's true, and
I think I'm working on it. I think that's because
I was raised by my mom and that's where the
strong and my mom's actually in the house right now,
she's visiting, but that's where the strong feminine energy came from.

(54:15):
And at the same time, I have very masculine qualities, tendencies, drives, ambitions.
But I'd love to understand more about the two through
both of you, because I know this is a space
you both talk about. I think our community would be
so fascinated to hear about it from you, because I
think we've started to think of the masculine feminine energy
as gender and it's just getting complicated. So let's talk

(54:38):
about it, and then you can tell me whether I
am or not.

Speaker 4 (54:41):
Yeah, And I should preface this with I'm not an
expert or guru on this topic at all.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
I just love and experience life experience.

Speaker 4 (54:48):
I just also love reading books. But I would say
the feminine is kind of built to navigate the unknown.
Even in the way we bring life into the world.
It's like we're bringing thing unknown into the known, and
the masculine is really great at navigating the known.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
It's like the mind and the heart. You know.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
You can use your mind to analyze and decide what
to do based on what's real and what's right in
front of you here and now, but the mind can't
future cast and figure things out. And yet the heart
is what guides us blindly through these moments. And so
that's kind of how I differentiate it. But it's obviously
really complex subject with lots of layers.

Speaker 2 (55:22):
And I like, for me, I look at it as
like nature, you know. I think, like the God is
the masculine, and Mother Earth is the nature, and like,
look how chaotic and like unforgiving but beautiful and incredible
our nature is. And so I think it's like the
two their lovers, they're they're a part of all of us.
And so it's it's more of an energetic conversation as
opposed to and it's and it's a way of being

(55:47):
in the world. And for me, I naturally fall into
my masculinity because I didn't have really much of a
father growing up, and when my mom passed away, it
was like, Okay, gotta like parent myself right now, like
let's get it going, and like I can do this.
And then she's she always falls really deep into her feminine.
Like we always joke like I'm the husband, maybe wear that.

(56:10):
But because I know that, and because I have that awareness,
I balance myself out. I do things, for instance, with
my physical body, I do things that are very feminine
like ballet or yoga and slower pilates, Like I go
slower because I know my internal natural reaction to life
in general is more of a masculine. Like we're just
going to both, like buldoze through this. Once you understand

(56:32):
kind of your initial reactions to things, you'll understand, Okay,
do I come from more of the feminine or do
I come from more of the masculine? And learning to
balance that obviously, it's just it's a journey, as is
life and life is just the classroom that we're all
just going to sit in for the rest of whatever
this dimension is. And so I think the masculine and
the feminine is one of is one of the bigger

(56:53):
lessons that we have, because that's even in like the
Hermetic Principles, it talks about the principle of gender and
how there's always a masculine and feminine And it's not
what you're saying. It's not black and white, it's not
you know, the biology of it. It's truly like an
energetic field that we use to navigate this universe and
this dimension specifically. And then I want you to talk
a little bit about how you've integrated the masculine in

(57:15):
your life, because you've done a really good job at that.

Speaker 4 (57:18):
Yeah. I think when I was very extreme in my
feminine it was very hard to actually use my will
to create things where I would have an idea for
a book, but I wouldn't write the book. And so
integrating that I realized, oh, okay, the masculine is it's almost
like a.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
Chariot that you can write. It'll get you where you
need to go.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Then you can get off.

Speaker 4 (57:34):
Yeah, and then you can get off and you can rest,
which I'm you know, we're working on in our modern culture.
It's a little difficult to do nothing, but I try
and weigh now what life is asking of me. Am
I meant to bring my feminine energy into this moment?
Am I meant to be patient and nurturing and navigate
that unknown space? Or am I meant to use force
and will? And you know it's like the door's not opening,

(57:56):
let me kick it down.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
I don't know. Sometimes it's also nice to look at
the energies as archetypes, like inside out. Yeah, have you
seen the second.

Speaker 1 (58:06):
Go with you?

Speaker 2 (58:06):
Guys have seen it, I'll see together. I like the
second one better than the first set. But what helps
is it just once again with back with the archetypes.
It helps kind of personify these different energies in us.
And then we just like after inside out too, some
profound stuff, guys. I had such compassion for my anxiety.

(58:28):
I was like, oh, my god, you've caught me so far.
Thank you. You've literally exhausted my body, but thank you
so much for getting me here and preparing me over preparation.
My God, calm down, but thank you. And I felt
such gratitude for her, and I also felt I felt
love for anxiety for the first time in my life.
And then through that, I think joy and anxiety. And
I noticed this with my dog. We're on the way

(58:49):
to the park. She's like so excited and then all
of a sudden, she has anxiety and she's whining and crying,
and I'm like, oh my god. Same. That's so true
because it's such a it's such a similar energy. Even
coming here. I'm like, I'm excited for this podcast, So
you're not nervous, You're excited.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
I was just.

Speaker 2 (59:05):
But we get those energies mixed up. But they also
they kind of service each other in a way, so
that was really fun. It just it takes once again.
I think our journey right now with our wisdom is
taking off the weight of all of it and also
not expecting it to come out with something profound every
single time and just enjoying the moment for it. And
I think when we personify those emotions, it gives us

(59:28):
an opportunity to immediately giggle about it. Honestly, I think
for us laughter has been it's everything, Like sometimes you
just need a giggle, Like sometimes it's too soon, but
I'm my goal. I know, I cracked jokes way too
soon and everyone's just silent, and then someone goes that
that was too soon. I'm oops. And then I wait

(59:49):
another month and then I say an never one last,
and I'm like, okay, I'll figure out.

Speaker 3 (59:52):
Then when when did she tho?

Speaker 2 (59:55):
When is she for the stars? Land on the cloud?
Doory guys? But you know it's it's it's so helpful
to have just that comunic relief. And I think that too,
like that's actually the fool archetype is what me and
now we have been really implementing and love like the
Jack Sparrow kind of just everything happens to you, one
of my favorite characters, and just yeah, even like the
Dunkin Trustle and the mister Brainwash and just like these

(01:00:16):
people who have just kind of stumbled ass backward into
like this divine life and it's like the legally blonde
like what Like it's hard, just like unraveling all of
these beliefs I had around success and abundance, like similar
with you, where I'm like, oh, this can be fun
and almost like a treasure hunt. My manager he's so cute.
I love my manager to death. We're best friends.

Speaker 3 (01:00:35):
But he was.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
He was every time he calls me, he's like, guess what,
and I'm like what, and he's like, so I found
this ring and it was my dad's ring and it
was a blue sapphire. And then I go over here
and this psychic told me and he just like puts
together all of these little clues and I stopped him,
and I was like, it's so beautiful that you look
at your life like this little treasure hunt to the
divine and the fact that you look at it in
that way is why it's unfolding in this beautiful fun

(01:00:59):
like scavenge your hunting way. And it's just a belief
he had. So I was like, I'm going to acquire
this belief. If you don't mind, I'm going to take
this from you. And ever since then, I've just been
kind of taking on that full Jacksparre archetype of like
just like fall in the shits you.

Speaker 3 (01:01:12):
Have, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:14):
You know why that comes full circle because I totally
just went to kuaiy So they shot one of the
Jacksparao scenes on that beachom yeah exactly, yeah exactly, And
so when I was there, that's all.

Speaker 3 (01:01:25):
I was thinking about. Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
You know, I love what you're talking about because I
think what's really interesting about it is you're talking about
the benefits of actually balancing masculine and feminine energy and
how you both have seen value in both. And I
think it's so strange because I think the conversation often
shifts to, like, well, which one are you prioritizing? So
how would you encourage people to think about their balancing

(01:01:49):
of their masculine and feminine and how would you encourage
them to kind of navigate that I guess the imbalance
that they may have, because I I don't think most
people are trying to think about the balance because we
were thinking it's either all yeah, and we're thinking, all, well,
masculine energy is what I need because that gets things done.

(01:02:09):
But you're saying, well, what about rest and refuel and
nourishment or in your case, you know, balancing your masculine
energy with the feminine.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeah. I think the first step is giving a lot
of compassion to like once you find out, because I
think too we look at spiritual growth in any capacity
of like, when we weren't balanced or aligned, we failed.
It's just like, no, like the contrast is there to
show us the way, like there wouldn't be light without dart.
It has to come together. It's both and so honoring. Okay,

(01:02:40):
maybe I've been leaning into my masculine a little bit
more and maybe it's been draining my body a lot
because I've been trying to force things and make them
happen and carve things out of nothing. And Okay, but
that's also the reason that I'm here and safe and
I've survived. So just really like thanking it for helping
you survive and getting to where you are, because if
we go still with that black and white way of

(01:03:03):
thinking of oh, that's bad because I've been doing that
and I'm not fulfilled, that's bad and it's like, no,
you need it. You just need to understand how to
integrate and incorporate it into your life. So I just
I want, you know, if there's like a girl you
know listening who's like, oh, you know, I would love
to feel more feminine. I would love to, you know,
have more of that fairy energy inside of me. First

(01:03:24):
is recognizing and giving so much appreciation to that masculine
that got you here, because it was there was probably
a reason you leaned into the masculine. Our bodies are intelligent,
our hearts are intelligent, and we lean into what we
need to in order to survive. And so it's like
this is incredible, but now it's time to not just
survive anymore, and it's time to truly like get into
that thriving and then you can look at it as in, now,

(01:03:46):
how do I want to bring this feminine energy into it?
So it's both they've been I mean even anxiety. She's
just trying to keep me safe, Like she's just trying
to keep me prepared for this interview, so I don't
see something stupid, like she's just trying to help. You know,
it's all there to assist you. This is all intelligently
created divinely for you. And when you trust that, like
that's always the belief I try to get girls too,

(01:04:07):
It's like this is all divine. If you can trust
that it's all divine, then any scenario that comes your way,
you're gonna look for the growth because you're gonna because
you know it's meant for you and you're not a
victim anymore. So anything bad that happens, I'm like, Okay,
what do we do? God? Like, how is this gonna
you know, navigate. How is this going to assist my growth?
Because it is, because this is a divine because I

(01:04:27):
believe it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:28):
One thing you've raised there that I love is this
idea of how we at one point start to hate things.

Speaker 3 (01:04:33):
That helped us survive. Yeah, and it's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (01:04:36):
It's like that saved you, that helped you, it got
you to the other side, and now that it's no
longer serving you, we feel like we wasted time. We
hate it, we were wrong, we messed up. Rather than
going that served me then and now I'll find the
next thing to serve me, and I'll always honor that.
I'll always have a space for that in my life.

(01:04:57):
And it's a tool, it's a skill, it's a habit,
it's a mindset. I can go back, but I don't
have to now hate it and neglect it and negate
it from having value.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Yeah, or feel embarrassed.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
Feel embarrassed. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a common emotion.

Speaker 2 (01:05:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
I love that first of all, because I don't know,
I mean, I actually I don't want to spoil inside out,
but there's a really beautiful scene at the end it
is I won't spoil it, but it's like the visual
representation of what you just said, and it's really beautiful
to look out for it. Okay, this is just an
inside out ad.

Speaker 3 (01:05:29):
Apparently exactly sponsor us.

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
It really is one of those brilliant movies.

Speaker 4 (01:05:37):
I try to look at things in storytelling and even
archetypically I'm trying to do the opposite of my nature. Like,
for example, let's say I really had an integrated ruler.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
The only one.

Speaker 4 (01:05:49):
That is just as powerful as the ruler said the
magician would be the full because the fool can say
anything to the king that he wants to not be beheaded,
because that's his job to be funny and honest, and
so he can poke it the king's ego in a
way that no one else can. And so with the ruler,
maybe you're more serious and stoic, but maybe you need
to bring in some of the full archetype.

Speaker 2 (01:06:09):
And so it's the same with masculine and feminine.

Speaker 4 (01:06:10):
It's like, what is my impulse, my reactive step that
I want to take, and can I actually try doing
the opposite as an experiment and see what happens?

Speaker 1 (01:06:19):
And do you bring that in through other people or
through activities you do yourself well both.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
Whatever the moment presents.

Speaker 4 (01:06:25):
You know, if I'm if I'm doing a poem and
I've done it the same way a hundred times and
it's gotten a great reaction, I'm like, well, let's let's yell.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Let's yell and jump up and down and see.

Speaker 4 (01:06:35):
Because I think, to your point, we need the freedom
to try new coping mechanisms. We need the freedom to fail.
That's super important, not just for artists but people in general,
is to not be so hard on ourselves to be
perfect all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:06:48):
So I like being perfect time it's impossible. We're just.

Speaker 3 (01:06:55):
Yeah, you just vo right, Yah.

Speaker 4 (01:06:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
We all love pretending. But it was one of the
reasons why I did when I did my tour. You
guys didn't come to my show last year, like one
of the reasons I did my show in this style.
I did it, and you can be honest with me
about how you felt about it. But the reason I
did it in the way I did was because I
wanted to shake off that holier than thou I'm the teacher,

(01:07:19):
I'm the guide.

Speaker 3 (01:07:20):
I wanted just that to just go.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
And so from the moment I came out, it was
me making natural jokes, humor. Everything was just real. It
was who I am in who I really believe I am,
and on stage I feel like I can be three
hundred and sixty degrees of who I am, which I
can't always be in a video or a snapshot or
whatever it may be. And if someone listens to the podcast,

(01:07:43):
they get all of who I am, but it's on
stage I can just totally let loose. My real goal
of the show was to show people that they could
do uncomfortable things. It wasn't that I could tell you
the right thing and you could think I'm great. It's
that you could see people like you. So I would
take people from the audience and they would do some
of the most incredible, uncomfortable things live on stage, and

(01:08:05):
it was just random people from the audience that we
hadn't prepared with. They weren't staged or casted. It was
truly organic, and I loved it. It was beautiful because
I was just amazed at the human spirit and resilience
and grit, and at the same time I was able
to make my audience the star of the show, so
people would like There was one girl who came up

(01:08:25):
and she said to me afterwards, she said, Jay, Like,
literally I got ten people ran and hugged me after
I told my story, or like after I came off stage,
like I had seven people approached me and asked me
to build community with me. And it was just amazing
to kind of create that energy. And that's what it
was for me. It's what you both just said. It
was like I used it as a creative expression to say,

(01:08:46):
I want to shake off those shackles of what I
think people think of me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:51):
It's exactly what you did. And going back to this
idea of instead of giving people the answer, it's more
about presenting just more and more honest questions until they
get there. That's exactly what you did on stage.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Now.

Speaker 2 (01:09:01):
I don't know if I had the balls seet up
on that stage. My god, some of those people were
so raised. Yeah, the one near there YouTube tha Yeah,
And that was incredible because watching them transform through their
own answers, like that's that's true just that's true power

(01:09:22):
for an individual. So it was incredible to see that
for you instead, because like, yeah, usually like a show
like that would typically just be you sharing wisdom, but
it felt so interactive. So I definitely saw that from
my end of it as well. Definitely the Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
I want to talk to you a bit about this
journal you've built and created, because I think that you've
thought about journals very differently. I think a lot of
journals are very daily, and your journals feels like more
like a journey that can kind of begin and wherever
you want, which is beautiful. You both have talked about
letters this whole time, Yeah, and you encourage letter writing

(01:09:59):
as part of your journaling process. Walk me through your
favorite journaling practice in there that could include a letter,
may not include a letter that you're so excited for
people to do and why they should do it, when
they should do it, and what you hope they'll.

Speaker 3 (01:10:15):
Get out of it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
One of my favorites is we have like a letter
to Fear essentially, and it's basically you write a letter
to fear and then the next you start asking its
questions and you kind of start having this really beautiful,
fluid conversation with fear. And our goal always is to
get people out of this mindset of like bad good,

(01:10:38):
because that is what shields us in all of these boxes.
And so with the journal, it's just us sharing and
hoping to just show you those honest answers that you
guys give where you realize how it all assists you,
even your fear, you know. And I also love the
one where we even have you talk to death as well.

(01:10:58):
We get into some because I think, you know, Ali
points this out beautifully. She was like, you can never
truly live if you haven't really faced death in some way,
because that's what makes life so valuable and beautiful as
knowing that this is temporary, and you also don't really know,
like everything becomes clear, you know when when something of
that nature happens, and so giving kind of people, Yeah,

(01:11:22):
just a little bit of a plant medicine. I'm sure
you be a journal and getting them very clear on
what they want, because when you just ask, like what
do you want? It becomes overwhelming you shut down. But
when you start asking, hey, what have I been shielding
myself from? What do I envy in people? What triggers
me the most? Like those types of questions are going

(01:11:43):
to get you to what you truly want and desire
quicker than any of like more of the forthright coming answers.

Speaker 4 (01:11:51):
Yeah, I think it's just valuable to climb into perspectives
other than your own.

Speaker 2 (01:11:55):
So there's one where.

Speaker 4 (01:11:56):
You write yourself a letter as though you're your mother
or father on the day you're born.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
There's one where you talk to death. There's some one
where you talk to fear.

Speaker 4 (01:12:02):
And it's just very important to step outside of yourself,
especially in forgiveness work or you know, if you need
to express anger, whatever it is. A journal is a
place where everything gets to belong. There's something too ugly,
it just has to be honest.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
That's really then also subconscious writing. That's been one of
my favorite tools that we give them. We'll give there's
like five or six just blank pages and basically we'll
give you a subject and you have to write as
fast as you can because it will quite literally get
to your subconscious And acting coach actually did this with me.
We're using my dad as a reference for the scene,
and she was like, I want you to write as
fast as you can about your dad. And by the

(01:12:41):
tenth page, I was, you know, crying because I had
all of these messages and things come through that I
never knew was inside of me, because I finally got
through that conscious mind back to the subconscious and it
finally started talking to me. So you can subconscious write
literally about anything, and that's that's why it's so powerful,
because you could subconscious write without any intention and you'll

(01:13:04):
still get to some light bulble moment because it's just finally,
it's like meditation. You're writing as fast as your thoughts,
so you can't really read it back. Who kind of
gets all we're just like riding. Our warriors are like
I can't feel my hand. They're just like, just keep going,
but they always come to these incredible realizations. So that's

(01:13:27):
definitely something I wish that you guys try at some point,
whoever's listening. It's really it's an incredible gift. It's kind
of like the morning pages from like the Artist's Way,
but instead of you know, over analyzing what you're saying
and if you're growing and is it working, you just
you write so fast that there is you and you
write the thoughts. So it's like the subconscious writing starts. Hey,

(01:13:49):
I don't really want to do this, this is my
hand's already aches. How am I gonna get? How am
I gonna write? To head pages? You quite literally have
to be super honest with exactly what's going through your brain,
and that's how you get through.

Speaker 1 (01:13:59):
I'm assuming that you both believe that most of us
don't often connect with our subconscious or do we and
do we not see the signs?

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
How do you feel about I.

Speaker 1 (01:14:12):
Guess the question is does our subconscious ever try and
communicate with us? Or is it something that we're always
having to try and unlation unravel.

Speaker 4 (01:14:22):
I feel like we're ruled by what remains buried in us.
And I do a lot of dream work with my friend.
He's a great dream analyst, and he's his Carl Jung Again.
I love Carlo clearly, but it's that it's a language,
and I think if your subconscious knows you're you're speaking
to it, it starts speaking back. I always personify it
as a little monster when I feel like it's getting overactive,

(01:14:43):
like if things are going really well, for example, my
subconscious is waiting for the shoe to drop, and so
it starts looking for things to upperlimit or panic about
when everything's totally fine. And so I gave it a character.
It's like this little ladybug, and I named it Bert
because it removes the power. It's that process of naming
something when you can just make it this funny little

(01:15:04):
thing but I think if you can love your little
monster it or love you back, and it will help
you and be with you in your life versus ignoring it,
then it starts to rule you and be in the
driver's seat at least.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
That's how I similar with intuition actually too, Like once
you start building that intuitive and understanding you're intuitive pulses,
you start having a stronger and stronger relationship with it,
and then it's like and it's just speed doll, Like
I can connect with the intuition immediately and it's yeah,
it's yeah. I think that was another really incredible thing

(01:15:35):
that we had with the Warriors because we were like, okay,
let's talk about intuition, and all the girls were like,
but I don't what is my intuition? And I was like,
oh wow, okay, first we need to figure out how
to get you guys back to connecting with intuition and
what that means for you, and then through that we
can use intuition and workshops. But we had to even
go back farther to be like, oh, okay, let's build
a relationship first, because everything has relationships. Everything is a relationship,

(01:15:57):
and it's always a two way street.

Speaker 3 (01:16:00):
I fully agree with you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
We have a relationship with money, we have a relationship
with food, we have a relationship with our bodies, we
have relationship with others, And that's something I wanted to
talk to you both about. I imagine that a lot
of questions you get have some correlation to dating, love
a romantic partner. What are some of the subconscious beliefs
that you're seeing holding people back from love? What have

(01:16:23):
you seen in your own journeys towards romantic love that
you feel of held you back from really creating something
powerful or beautiful like you have in your friendship. And
how do you guide young women through that journey of
their life. Because I feel like if there's anything that
has been seen as put on the greatest pedestal or

(01:16:43):
platform or the ultimate achievement, as you rightly said, was
why you become the porcelain doll, is because you've been
told that that's what gives you protection.

Speaker 3 (01:16:51):
So that's so hardwired. What's the breakthrough insight for that?

Speaker 4 (01:16:57):
At least for me? My work is and love surrendering
the sword first. That's the only way to win the battle.
And explain that to me, Like we it's very easy
to throw up a guard and to tiptoe into something.
Especially now there's so many options. You can be noncommittal
so easily because there's always something you know, rich or
smarter or pretty or whatever it is, versus actually leaning

(01:17:19):
into the person in front of you. And I think
that's my work, is fully leaning in no matter what,
so that when if it ends, whether that's through dying
together in our nineties or nine minutes from now it
just doesn't work out, at least they'll know I gave
all of myself because I think that's what haunts me
is if I didn't lean into a moment. So yeah,
I think by surrendering my sword, by being the first

(01:17:42):
to strip off my armor, that's when I actually feel
really proud of myself in love. Whether or not it
works out, I feel it's successful in that way.

Speaker 1 (01:17:49):
How do you respond to that when it could be
that someone took advantage of that, or someone misuse that
openness and vulnerability.

Speaker 3 (01:17:59):
That you gave them.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
How do you reconcile that afterwards, in the aftermath that
it only lasted three months or six months or whatever
it was, and it wasn't as deep and beautiful as
you wanted to commit towards.

Speaker 4 (01:18:10):
There's not really a way for me to know that.
You know, I can't peer into the future, and that's
the risk I take in love reminds me of that
colors your bron poem on Love, where he says, when
love beckons, you follow him though his ways are hard
and steep, you know it's true you might get wounded.
And it's just the risk that we take with caring
about people. You know, we'll lose them one way or another,

(01:18:31):
whether they die before us or we die before them.
The sphere of will I ever find my person is
now replaced with will I lose my person? And that
just comes with caring about someone other than yourself. It's
an inevitable reality. And so if I can face that
every day and accept that, it makes me have.

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
More courage to lean in. Yeah, I want to echo that,
just because I think we define successful relationships as lasting forever.
Whereas for me and Alley, as we're learning and growing,
it's really about letting it morph into whatever it's meant
to be. So whether that stays romantic, or or it
changes into something else, or you know, if you feel

(01:19:07):
like it's time to leave, making sure that the love
is still there no matter the decision, because I think
it's way easier to just wait until you both get
so triggered that then we can just make it, make
each other the bad villain or whatever, and then move
on with our lives. But the real growth, and when
you know, kind of the universe, the God knows that

(01:19:29):
you're ready for a partner, is when you act in love,
not because they deserve it, or you know, because you
want to show them or whatever. It's because you are
love and that's just what you attract. And so for me,
at least like with my prior relationship to this one,
that's exactly what happened. I was absolutely heartbroken, but I
knew that this was a conversation with me and God

(01:19:50):
now about Okay, can you end this in love, because
regardless if he wants to stay, you are love, and
so you're going to end it in this way, and
then therefore the real, the real partnership will come and
and that's exactly what happens. So also too, you know
it is it is a little chaotic right now in

(01:20:10):
the world with this idea of non attachment. You know,
we we associated with spirituality a lot because it's like, oh,
I'm not attached. But Ali also has this beautiful poem
where she was like, if you don't, if you just
constantly go with the flow of the river, you're going
to fall off the waterfall. Like it's when we don't
use that masculine energy to say no, I want this,
I want to do this, I want to work for this,

(01:20:31):
then everything just there's no there's there's no real intimacy
and no real connection. And I think that's our That's
my goal at least with every romantic relationship if I
have one, if whatever it is, is just getting to
the depth of that connection so that both of us
can grow, and growth is my definition of success in relationship,

(01:20:51):
not time. And it's scary too, because I think when
you're in a relationship and you feel like you're not
getting something that you want, you usually will go in
your backo, try and figure it out, come to a conclusion,
and then tell the person as opposed to being letting
them in on the conversation, being like, Hey, I'm not
getting this type of energy or this type of treatment,
and I'm really noticing that it's an ultimatum for me

(01:21:12):
in relationships, and I want to include you on this
conversation because I'm terrified of hurting you or I'm terrified
of like leaving this life, and you know, just bringing
them into the conversation is what takes the power away
from it. And then it's like it's an honest love
no matter what. And that's it's really scary because it's
way easier to just come to the conclusion and then

(01:21:34):
present it to them, and it's even scarier being like, hey,
I'm terrified of breaking your heart.

Speaker 3 (01:21:39):
How does that wran you? Real?

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
But at least it's an honest conversation. And I'm noticing
that with our relationship. I've been in a relationship for
four almost five years now, and that's it. Like every
six to nine months, we just we have to, you know,
have a conversation of like, hey, is there anything that's
not being honored within the relationship that you feel like
you need because I think going back to this masculine
and feminine that's super important in a relationship. It's fluid,

(01:22:04):
you know, sometimes you'll lean into the masculine, sometimes I'll
you know, he'll lean into feminine. But when we especially
with females, you know, when we are in the masculine
too much, in a relationship, we kind of become the
mother archetype a little bit of like did you do
the bed? Blah blah, Like you're picking on things that
don't mean to be picked on, and it's usually because, uh,
the feminine us hasn't been honored in a way where

(01:22:25):
it's like have you taken her out? Have you you know,
done a romantic weekend or whatever it is, is just
bringing that romance back into it and then the female
can just like fall into her feminine and feel like
a princess truly, because that's what we also want in
a relationship, at least for me, I like to feel
it princess.

Speaker 1 (01:22:45):
Know what, what's your take on, like how this language
of like high value man and high value woman is
like permeated like social media culture relationships and like, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
I don't know.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
To me, it feels so transactional of I think we're
drawn to people who bring out the side of us
that needs to come out in a way. And I've
always trusted that life will bring me the person that
I meant to fall for, and I've trusted that I
feel like I'll feel it when I see them versus
if I create this checklist of like he has to
make this much money and drive this car and look

(01:23:21):
like this and do this. It takes the magic out
of it, and I'm not actually present with the person
in front of me. And at least on a soul level,
I don't know that I'll learn the most from the
person on my checklist. You know, I don't know that
I'll be able to dance on the ashes of who
we once were together if it's what my mind thinks,
because at least I find whatever my mind thinks should

(01:23:41):
happen is usually not what should happen.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
I agree at all.

Speaker 4 (01:23:45):
Yeah, so I want to be surprised because love is
such a greater force than me, and it's so humbling.
And yeah, I guess when I hear the high value man,
high value woman, it automatically to me insinuates that you
don't have value or you know what I mean. It
triggers is the self esteem thing. At least that's how
I feel when I hear it.

Speaker 1 (01:24:03):
Absolutely, Yeah, I love your take on it, and I
think my take is that you can't really judge value
in that way because I always give this example of
like when I met RADI I was in debt and
didn't have a job and didn't know what I was

(01:24:24):
going to do. And so if I was judged on
my value of my net worth or any of those things,
it would have been minus. But I was not judged.
I was approached by RADI based on my values, not
my value, and that totally was a different take, and
she invested in my values, and those values are what

(01:24:46):
constructs a healthy relationship today, I don't think whether we've
had money or not had money it actually affected our
romantic connection, or whether we had things or didn't have things,
whether it affected our intimacy, Like that wasn't what I
had an impact. I always say to people, like, how
to old someone is isn't going to change.

Speaker 3 (01:25:05):
Whether you guys are have also.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
So much fun to grow with you xactly and to
be like I was there from the beginning. Like that's
so satisfying and cool in its own way. So when
we're always constantly looking for like the finished product of someone,
it's like, well, then where's that gritty growth that I
love so much, because at least that's what we have
in our friendship. You know, it's just like this gritty

(01:25:28):
like I'm going to continue to like go with you
on this journey whichever way you know, if you need
to bury dead body list Like it's that energy on
Purpose podcast. He's like, God, love each other, her out, No,
but it's true. Like I I like, even in the

(01:25:49):
past five years, I'm like, this is incredible to see
how much we've grown together. It's almost it's exhilarating in
its own way. So I do think too, and men also,
I think I'm going to talk a little bit potential
because I think women who Run with the Wolves, that
incredible book, they were talking about how women it's in
one of it's part of our nature to see a
man's potential and to truly like help lift them to

(01:26:11):
get them there. And so so many times I hear
my friends, you know, embarrassed that they fell for them
for his potential, and then they felt guilty or bad
that they were trying to push him in a direction
that maybe he didn't want to go. And when I
read that in the book, I realized, oh no, because
the right man will be so excited that you see
that path for them and will walk that path with

(01:26:33):
you in a beautiful way. So there is truth within
that that natural ability that women have. It's it's so beautiful,
and I've seen that with my own relationship, Like it
is so fun to watch him grow and become this
incredible man. It is. It's so much more satisfying than
if I would have just gone on a date with

(01:26:53):
this version of him now and met him now. It's
our nature to to feed that potential to something greater.
And if he's the right guy and he's ready for you,
then that's where the growth and the beautiful garden that
you guys will create comes from. So it's really beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:27:07):
I can listen to you both talk forever now we
can on the easy A podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
I'm so excited.

Speaker 1 (01:27:12):
I hope you're both going to have loads of conversations
with each other too, because I could just hear you
you two talk without any guests or anything.

Speaker 2 (01:27:18):
It's been interesting being a host, like I will say
so because like like watching you do this and how
you're able to You're so present, You're able to wrap
around a story and you're able to take different questions
and you know, form them into new ones to take
us on this new path. It's this incredible talent that
you have, so I definitely have watched yours and studies
yours a lot, but then also like adding our own

(01:27:38):
little sauce into it has been so fun, And it's
actually like way more intimidating to be interviewed as opposed
to be the host. Like I prefer being the host
so much more.

Speaker 1 (01:27:48):
But I finally realized that you realized that because in
the beginning, when you're hosting yours and Neverson scared, and
then you realize the person in the seat is as
a way out a job, we were so No, you're
both a phenomenal. I want to end with the final five,
which we always do the end of every on purpose interview,
but we're going to change it up. We're going to
take questions from the journal because I think that would

(01:28:08):
be fun and so the questions. But the hard part
is the questions have to be answered in one word
to one sentence maximum, and I'll probably allow you, I'll
probably want you to expand his Timeue goes on. So
question one, let's start with an easy one.

Speaker 3 (01:28:21):
Let's not start with that.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
Yeah, I've got a really good one there for later on.
We'll start with it an easy one. What piece of
advice would you give to a younger you?

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Your brain's just not fully formed. You're going to be Okay,
I worry about it, like twenty five, it'll calm down,
smooth sailing, but just like it's fine, You're good.

Speaker 3 (01:28:43):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:28:44):
Buckle up, baby, enjoy the ride.

Speaker 3 (01:28:48):
Okay, great. If life stopped today, what would you regret
not doing? I love that question.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Serving spending way we're talking to my family, you could
be on the water more. Yeah, honestly nothing.

Speaker 4 (01:29:00):
Oh yeah, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
That's an amazing place to be. Tell me about all
the parts of yourself that you cringe at.

Speaker 2 (01:29:12):
My unfiltered thoughts, my intrusive thoughts, It just will come out.
I've been pretty good on this episode, but I love
your intrusive thoughts. But they had just become my personality
and it came I just yeah, there's moments where I'm like, don't, don't,
and it just comes out. So I guess, Yeah, my
intrusive thoughts are pretty cringey, especially when I just can't
stop saying them out loud. I think it was being homeschooled.

(01:29:33):
There's just no filter. And then also my mother was like,
oh adults, Oh no, they're just they're like you, but older,
and I was like oh, and then I never really got,
you know, afraid, and never called people mister and missus,
and so there was never like this disconnection from me
and my olders in a sense. So I just there's
no filter and never went to school, so I just

(01:29:55):
will keep talking. And so I'm gonna shut up.

Speaker 3 (01:29:58):
Now this is all intrusive. I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:02):
Yeah, I think I just cringe it being a walking
and bumper sticker, like as a poet, I'm just so trained.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
I can see her cringe to say line that she said, I.

Speaker 4 (01:30:13):
Can't stand it. I think that's why I appreciate her.
It's the balance. Yeah, there's nothing composed, and I'm too composed,
and so somewhere will become a person in the middle.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
I always say that, like I take life too seriously
and Rady doesn't take life seriously at all.

Speaker 3 (01:30:29):
Yeah, and it's the only way to balance it out.

Speaker 1 (01:30:31):
Similar I know what I'm doing every minute of the day.
All right, question number four, list of things that you're
running from?

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Okay, I just spit uh mortality to get like really deep.
I've been feeling like I've been needing to face us
in different types of ways. Maybe it's a plot plant

(01:31:04):
medicine thing. Maybe I don't know what it is, but
I feel once I can have a more honest relationship
with death, I'll be able to because now I love
my life so much and I love who I am
so much, so I'm like, I just really want to
be in it so deeply and I and I know
that like fear of death and fear of loosening it
all is kind of ruining the presence for me a

(01:31:24):
little bit. So yeah, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:31:27):
I'm running for my gifts. I think I've hit a
certain comfortable place in writing, but I want to see
how far I can go and stretch that muscle. But
it feels like that Mary and Williamson quote if we're
afraid of our power more than failure. I just butchered
that terribly. But I'm afraid of that. I'm seeing how
far I can go about You, Jay Shatty, what am.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
I running from? Yeah, that's what you're saying, right that question.
I literally wait to do this, Like I'm really excited.
Am I running from?

Speaker 1 (01:32:03):
I think I'm running from. I'm actually doing what I
was talking about earlier. I'm running from a past self,
an identity then no longer serves me. But I think
I'm doing it not in the right way. So my
history is important to me, and it's powerful, and it's

(01:32:24):
so much the reason I am who I am today,
and I think sometimes I'm trying to run away from
my history because I'm so different today externally and in
so many other ways. But I don't think that's the
right thing to do, so i'd say that's what I'm
running from. That makes sense at all? All right, Fifth
and final question, what are you pretending not to know?

Speaker 3 (01:32:46):
Right now?

Speaker 2 (01:32:47):
That's the question that I wanted him to Oh is it?

Speaker 3 (01:32:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Remember what what did it? Could say? Our friend Coop
Blacks an extra set?

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I interviewed two years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
Oh yeah, he's Oh my god, what's larger than life?

Speaker 3 (01:33:04):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:33:04):
Oh my gosh. What am I brandtending not to know?
Right now?

Speaker 3 (01:33:08):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:33:08):
No, oh no. That I was really hoping he wasn't
going to ask that question, but I wanted to ask
him that question.

Speaker 3 (01:33:14):
And now we're in.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
I think I do feel a little bit of fear
of success with the podcast because we had this conversation
with kot. There's a difference between sharing who you are
and exposing who you are, and I always got nervous
with that because with social media, it's everyone's just going

(01:33:39):
to use any part of their life to gain attraction,
and I really want to maintain a sense of privacy
while also sharing deeply who I am. I feel you
do a really good job about that, So I think
I'm I'm afraid of that line being crossed with now
that we're in this like more love content, because this

(01:34:03):
is the only type of content on the Internet that
I feel actually shows all versions of someone, and that's
why me and Ali were so excited to get into it.
But there's definitely a huge fear of it right now
that I'll expose myself in some way or feel like
I hate those vulnerability hangovers. My god, it doesn't feel good.
Oh it doesn't feel good.

Speaker 4 (01:34:22):
What about you? I actually think it's what you said
earlier about the inner piece external chaos. I find what
brings me inner piece, I notice rocks the boat of
people I love most a lot of the time, and
so I really really struggle with not wanting to hurt
people and then suffocating a part of myself. And I

(01:34:44):
think there's a balance between the two of freedom and security,
But I think it's pretending not to know when something's
good for me, but I know what's going to be
something that feels like upheaval inside.

Speaker 1 (01:34:54):
Yeah, well, thank you guys. What are you pretting not
to know right now? I'd say it's I feel that
there's a larger than life, bigger service that I'm meant
to walk into, but I feel like the immediate keeps
taking my attention, and so I'm pretending not to know

(01:35:18):
that there's this bigger thing that will be hard at
work people work that is asking me to pick up
the call. But it's almost like you're avoiding the call
because there's all this immediate stuff that is good and
it's great and it's helping, and it is service based
as well, but it's you know, there's more and you're
not picking up the call.

Speaker 2 (01:35:39):
So oh that's good, That's honest.

Speaker 1 (01:35:41):
What I love about everything I've said to you guys,
and even just sitting and do this activity with you,
I love that those beautiful, simple, well crafted questions made
me say things that I probably haven't said out loud
to anyone in years. Maybe so you know the power
of the questions. You've curated and chosen a really special

(01:36:02):
and I'm so excited for people to dive into it.
I'm honestly seeing with you both today, I can honestly
say that I hope.

Speaker 3 (01:36:09):
That you come back to teach me some more and
offline as well. I mean, I actually genuinely mean that.

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
I'm not just saying that, I really hope you'll come
back offline to teach me some more. I'm going to
reach out to both of you. I can't wait for
people to listen to easy A. I'm so excited for
people to use the Becoming a Warrior journals. And I'm
rooting for you guys and forever in your corner and
anyway that I can be, and so grateful that you

(01:36:37):
came on purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
You're the best ever. Thank you so much. You've supported
me for years and I just I feel so much
gratitude when I think of you and Roddy and like
truly you've you guys kind of like took me under
your wings. So I really really appreciate it, and thank
you for welcoming Ali.

Speaker 3 (01:36:52):
Of course, thank you.

Speaker 4 (01:36:53):
You really create such a beautiful safe space where it
elicits honesty in a way that's not invasive.

Speaker 2 (01:37:00):
It's like calm honesty. It doesn't feel supportive and loving.

Speaker 3 (01:37:04):
Yeah, yeah, thank you. It means the world to me.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Did I not ask you anything that you wanted to
share or something that was on your heart and mind
that you really want to share with the community right now?
If there's anything, please feel free. It's open floor.

Speaker 2 (01:37:17):
I just think the Box conversation has just been so
relevant in my life in the last year, and it
always just comes back to this idea of giving the
world us individuals the grace of change, because it's truly
what we need. And that's why I, me and Ali
have such a close connection, because we've given each other
the grace of change and we need that more than

(01:37:39):
ever in this world.

Speaker 3 (01:37:41):
I fully agree Ali Annie what she said. I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:47):
Everyone has been listening or watching wherever you are, whether
you're walking your dog, you're at home, you're on the
way to work, on the way back from work, you're
at the gym, wherever you are. Please make sure that
you tag all three of us. Tag Ali, tag Alexis,
tag myself. Let us know what stood out to you,
what resonated with you. Remember, I want you to go
listen to this with a friend, to deepen your friendship,
to remove envy from your connections, and of course start

(01:38:10):
removing the boxes, start trying to live in bigger boxes,
and allow ourselves to give us permission to be the
fullest three to sixty degree version of ourselves. So big
thank you to Alexis, big thank you to Ali, and
thank you for listening to on Purpose.

Speaker 3 (01:38:23):
Everyone. Thank you so much, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:38:26):
If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with
Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to
heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

Speaker 2 (01:38:38):
Everything in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So tree
doesn't go over it's hard and thick, does it. It
goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.

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Episode Transcript

Host

Jay Shetty

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On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

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