Chris Appleton EXCLUSIVE: “I Thought My Kids Would Be Better Off Without Me” Opening up About The Darkest Night of His Life and What FINALLY Gave Him The Courage to Live Authentically

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
I felt like it would be better for them to
have a dad that was dead than a dad that
was gay. It's not something I've ever spoken about. Chris
Ampleton is a hairstylist to the stars including Jennifer Lopez
Kim Kardashian Do a leaper.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
When did you realize that you couldn't stop hiding who
you really were?

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I came out in twenty six and all the people
said to me, well, you must have already known and
just hit it, And I wasn't aware that I did know.
Being a gay child, I learned to hide myself when
I did hair. There was this whole thing about sexuality,
and it's like, oh, you're gay. Being gay must be
bad because people are you know. They weren't saying it
in a nice way, like you're gay. They were like,
you're gay.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
There was you who filed for a divorce. Everything you've
been through, I can imagine that's not easy.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something.
People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid.
I was going through a lot of private pain. What
really helped me was not being okay.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
You right about the night that you tried to end
your life.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
They close my eyes and this is it. I won't
hurt anyone anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
We reached out to the kids. They send us a
note for you.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Oh ye, I don't know what to thro The number
one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Jay Setdy, Jay Shaddy sly Set Hey, everyone, welcome back
to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning into
the place you come to become a happier, healthier, and
more healed. Every guest I sit down with has been
on an incredible healing journey, whether it's their mind, their emotions,

(01:36):
or even their soul. And today's guest is someone who's
been on an unexpected internal journey because their life is
so public and external. Today's guest is Chris Appleton, a
renowned celebrity hairstylist best known for creating iconic looks for
the likes of Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, Ariana Grande, and
so many more. Chris is the global creative director for

(02:00):
Colour Wow Hair and a social media sensation with over
seven million followers. His work is regularly featured in Vogue,
Harper's Bizarre l and in Style. In his debut book,
Your Roots, don't define you. Chris opens up about identity,
transformation and self work. So I want you to support Chris.

(02:20):
Go and pre order it right now. Please, Welcome to
On Purpose Chris Appleton. Chris, it's great to have you here,
great to finally be here. I mean, we have bumped
into each other in a million places, absolutely, whether it's
Jims Cities, Jims in Miami, Paris, La. And I've always
been an admirer of you and your work from the outside.

(02:42):
You work with incredible people. They have so much love
and respect for you. But I have to be honest
and say that when I've read the book, I have
a different level of respect for you that came from
this book because I can see you really want to
help people, and I can see that you want to
use your journey as a way of supporting other people's journeys.
And that fascinating because you don't really know that when

(03:02):
you follow someone on Instagram or see them. So I'm
glad that we get to pull back the curtain on
your life and understand you more.

Speaker 1 (03:09):
No, absolutely, And I think there's so much about that
that we make an assumption of people by social media
just what we see because it's surface level and there's
nothing wrong with that. But I think it's so nice
to be able to get to know more and just
know some of the magic of how things are done
and how everyone else can have a part of that.
And that's what I hope with the book, that people
feel like they can have a part of that and
you know, help make that come back.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, And it's so nice to sit with another man
from England and think about the crazy journey. We just
realized we both moved to the States nine years ago.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
I have no regrets. What about you?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
No, me too.

Speaker 1 (03:40):
I love it here.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
It's been amazing to me. It's been so good to me.
I feel like it's been good to you as well. Absolutely,
And I'm in Londoner at heart, always through and through.
But there's a beauty to living here. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
I mean there's so many nice things when you go home,
Like I just went back and the chocolate. I just
always love the chocolate. It's a little sweeter, a little
bit of a sweet milk exactly. Yeah, I just like
dairy milk, the milk. Yeah, but I'm always fat. I'm
like sitting in the stores, like just looking at all
of the that I remember remember pickled on your cris Yeah,

(04:12):
exactly all the things, but no, it's fun to go back,
but LA is definitely home now, Yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Love that well, Chris. I wanted to ask you something
that I often ask a lot of guests because I
think I'm always fascinated by how who we were places
imprints on us into who we become. And I wanted
to ask you, do you have a childhood experience that
you remember that you think has defined who you are today?
An experience or a memory that you have that you

(04:37):
feel had some coding into who you've become today.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
You know, it's funny you say that, because I have
a very distinct memory, but for a long time it
was a really sad one. But the more I've understood
that memory, the more I realized it was kind of
where I was at in my life. And it's sad
because I guess it was a memory at the age
of it was maybe sort of eight and nine years old,
and I remember looking outside the window. I'll come from

(05:03):
a big family in the UK and one of five.
We were you know, really working class, if not poor.
You know, we didn't have many luxuries and life was real.
It was very you know, different to La and sunshine.
It was rainy and gray, and I remember sort of
looking out the window and I felt like I didn't
really belong I knew I felt different. I knew there

(05:25):
was something different, Like my brothers enjoyed doing football and sports,
and my sisters like doing girls things like I don't
know why we were playing with bobbies or braiding hair, and
I kind of felt somewhere in the middle. I didn't
really feel like I fit in. I was a middle
child also, and I remember just looking out and I
felt quite alone. And I think that was the beginning

(05:45):
of me kind of abandoning myself in a way to
fit in, to fit in with what I think people
around me thought I should be or who I was
told to be. So that memory was in one way,
it's very motivational now I know what it meant because
I can kind of go back to that moment and
I've learned that sur in therapy and sort of been

(06:05):
able to like connect with that inner child, which for
so long I ignored. But I think for me, it was
a real special moment that I go back to because
you can kind of change that, you can change what
you came from and that's a lot about what the
book's about. It's about how your roots don't define you,
and it really is about you know, we all grow
up being told to be something or be someone, or

(06:26):
we have influencers around us which kind of leaders into
a certain part of our lives, and sometimes we stop
and look in the mirror and don't recognize how we
got there, let alone how we look. You know, sometimes
I've worked with clients and I'll say, you've got short,
dark hair and bangs. Why is that? And why just
what I've always had? I don't know we ever thought

(06:48):
about going lighter and long? No, not really? Why not?
Well just because that's not what they kind of then
stop and go, well, why have I never thought that?
Because no one ever given the freedom to. And a
lot about what my job was about is really kind
of opening people up. It's really starts on the outside
as a visual, but then once you start going internal
with things and breaking down these kind of boundaries, it's

(07:08):
really quite magical what can happen. And that, in a
nutshell is kind of what I've always done. Gone that
little bit deeper, and I guess going back to that
childhood memory really helps me kind of remember that that
your roots really don't define you, and you do have
a chance to start again. It's never too late.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah, it's such an interesting connection that you made there,
because most people wouldn't see that. You wouldn't think that
something aesthetic like that about yourself is so deep rooted,
but it is. And all these limitations and blocks and
all this conditioning that we all have, whether it's about
who you can become, how much money you can make,
who you're meant to be in the world. And for you,

(07:44):
you fell in love with the hair quite early, right, Yeah,
that was something you discovered. Really, what was the discovery
of it? I think it was, honestly, the first time
I felt good at something. I was pretty young.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
I was maybe like nine ten years old as a
similar age where I was dyslexic, so I really knew
what that was then. So you were kind of just
told you were stupid. I remember I used to sit
in the classes and I was like, please come one
into the question because I did not know what he
was going on about. When I sort of started to paint,
I noticed I got like a reaction. And then when
I started to use my hands and do hair, which

(08:14):
was my mom. At the time, I realized you had
this ability to sort of change the way people felt.
I really liked that. I loved that you could transform people.
I was really mesmized by that. But I noticed people
reacted different, and I felt like that was almost like
a superpower. So I just thought, I'm going to be
the best at it. This is what I'm good at.
I'll be the best at it, and I'll prove everyone wrong.

(08:35):
I'm not stupid. And again just being conditioned to I mean,
I was pretty bullied at school because of that. And
then when I did hair, there was this whole thing
about sexuality and it's like, oh, you're gay because no
one back then did hair espec when had a job
at thirteen, and doing hair was you know, stereotypically where
I grew up, people you know, said okay, wee are

(08:56):
you gay? And that was before I al really even
understood sexuality. I didn't even really consider it. I was
just a young guy having a great time. You know,
when you're a kid, you just you're free. You know,
it's great. It's such a good feeling. And then the
harsh reality of life slaps around the face one day
and I remember sort of things, was like, well bad,
that's bad, Like being gay must be bad because people
are They weren't saying it in a nice way, like

(09:17):
you're gay. They were like you're gay. You know, people
would like spit on you. And I mean it was bad.
I got bullied quite aggressively, and I think that really
led me to push, and I guess push away from myself.
That's I think when the curtain started to come down
and I really abandoned myself because I started to become
a version of myself that I thought other people wanted

(09:40):
to see. So talk a little bit more masculine, stand
more masculine. You know, you start to become very aware
of your mannerisms. Doing hair was feminine. So I kind
of kept it to myself and I just kept my
head down. I didn't want to tell people about it.
And it's really sad because I think being a gay child,
I learned to hide myself. I lean to hide the

(10:03):
parts of myself with authentic and I adapted myself into
being something that I thought other people wanted me to be.
And as an adult, what you have to do is
then on pick those parts and find out what were
the parts that are actually me? And the parts that
I created for other people. And as much as anything,
I go back to the book, like there is stories

(10:24):
about my life and as reflection, but it's really about
helping people get to get back to theirs and on
pick it as well, because sometimes it takes a bit
of that work, and that work can be brutal. It's
not the easiest work I've ever done, but I would
say the most rewarding for sure.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I like the way you drew that when you
reflect on your past, you've got to pick a part
of the parts that you've made for yourself and the
parts that you made yourself. That's such a great.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
And everyone has that, you know. If you grow up
into a family of religion, or if you grow into
a family of different beliefs and cultures, you tend to
take them on, even relationships. You know, we look at
relationships of like that's how mom and dad interacts, and
you kind of carry that for out your life. And
it's not until you get into relationships an adult and
you're like, oh, you can do it differently, you know.
And they're all the lessons we learn as adults. But

(11:08):
not everyone is, like I guess aware of that. Not
everyone is aware is you can change the story, and
there's a real freedom to doing that.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Yeah, I want to go down two paths based on
what you said, but the first path before we go
down the other, because the other will lead to more
different opportunities to talk about. But the first part is
you said you wanted to become the best. As soon
as you discovered you can do hair, you're like, I'm
going to become really good at this. Yeah, what did
it take to become the best at what you do?

(11:38):
Because you are, you work with the best, you consider
the best by the people that you serve. What did
that take? Because I think often when we look at athletes,
or you look at business, there's people who've told those stories.
But when you take something as artistic as air, yeah,
we don't necessarily think about it in the same way totally,
at least publicly, even though it's such an important part

(12:00):
of daily life that everyone has, right And so I
want you to walk me through, like what was that process? Like?
Like what did that take? What did that look like?

Speaker 1 (12:08):
I think I just was so determined not to be stupid,
not to be deemed as bad or different, that I
really wanted to be good at something, and like I say,
it's kind of a double edged sort because it motivated
me to want to do better. And my focus really
was to just get on it as fast as I could,
and I just put everything I had into hair. Like

(12:29):
I got a job at the age of thirteen and
I just had a salon. Yeah, And I remember my
first day. I remember it very clear. I remember standing
against the wall and I saw people walking one way
and I saw them then walk out another way once
they have their hair done, and I swear they were
standing a little taller and then you know, their shoulders
went back and I was like, this is good. I
love this, and I was like I want to do
I remember literally thinking this is what I'm going to do.

(12:53):
And I just like every aspect of parent if I
didn't know how to do it, I'd find out, you know.
I mean, eventually, as my career regressed and I became
top sort of hair stylist, and then was like, what's
outside of this? So I'd look outside. I was like, Oh,
this is thing called editorial hair, and there's fashion shows
and there's and every every kind of block was like
a beginning again because no one really kind of like
if you're a sale hairdresser. You're just a soale hairdress

(13:15):
so you can't be a fashion hairdresser. You know, they
kind of there's a competition. Yeah, totally. It's like, you know,
people love to put you in a box. All my life,
people love to put me, and I still to today,
I'm always trying to fight being put out of box.
I don't know if you can relate to that. I
think a lot of people just still love to put
you where they know you can stay. And I just
pushed myself to know every aspect and if I didn't

(13:35):
know what it was. I remember, for example, I eventually
got an editorial job and they wanted a look that
I just didn't know how to do, and I just
got in a car. I took myself to this local
salon and she did this. It was like this, this
like weaving technique of it's called a basket weave, and
like I would sit there and watch her and just
pay this woman to sit and watch and I'd sit
with her doll's head up all night. I don't know,
I just I think I just went above and beyond.

(13:57):
I loved what I did, I still love what I do,
and I just I think that combined with again a
bit of a blessing in a curse, like a little
bit of an OCD mentality, where I wanted it to
be good and I could see things. I don't just
let things go. I can see every detail and every
little hair, and I think that can combined and just
the passion to want to be good at something just

(14:18):
pushed me. And it's funny now because it's only now
I'm forty two and I look back at videos. I
recently just put some things on social media because someone
came from the UK with a big box of DVDs,
and even I forgot what I did to get to
where I've got. Every competition I did and I didn't
win and failed, and every you know, educational thing that
I failed because of my dislexay. I just kept bouncing

(14:40):
back and the nose. I had people laugh in my face,
you know. I remember eventually I got an agent, and
I was so excited about the next steps, and they'd
laugh at me. They were like, you know, you just
need to stay where you are and keep it real,
and they'd send me on a photo shoot for some
flip flop commercial. I just I didn't care. I was
just determined, and I think you have to have that
resilience along the way. I think you really have to

(15:00):
have that intern or resilience to stay focused. And it's
not it was never one thing. It was just lots
of little leap frog moments. Everyone thinks it's this big moment.
It really isn't. It's just a build. But I would
say one of my biggest secrets to success in that
area was just to be consistent. I stayed consistent and
when I got knocked down, I got back up on

(15:22):
a carry on and I tried to land by every
mistake as I went along. You know, I if I failed,
I was like, why did I fail in that person? Wait?
Why did that person get it? And I didn't. I
would look and I analyze the situation and come back. Yeah,
And I think that's a lot of what it takes.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's good advice. It's also good to hear
that there's no industry in which you just one day
get a call from, you know, totally the biggest star
in the world. It's like everyone's earned their stripes and
done the work, and it's good to hear about it.
Whether it's podcasting, whether it's hair whether it's music and
athletes that we've had, it's it's always that you always
hear that same story. But going back to England and

(15:57):
talking about the derogatory use of the term gay, I mean,
I went to a boys school and I think about
all the guys at my school that got so bullied
because we went to a boys school as well. And
now when I look at how many guys in my
school were gay but never came out until years later,

(16:19):
some of them at university, some of them much later
than that, and I'm just like, wow, they never even
had the opportunity because they thought immediately that if they
were to say that at our school, they were going
to get bullied for it. And so I get how
real that was at that time especially, and of course
there are still parts of the world where that's still
the case. But how early were you sure about that

(16:41):
being part of your identity and were you consciously masking
it or was it still a discovery of your identity
or was it like, oh, I know that's true and
I'm going to hide it now, as you said, you
had to abandon yourself, or was it like I don't
really know what that is and I'm discovering and figuring
it out. How was it for.

Speaker 1 (16:59):
You as to this A lot? It took me a
while to understand because in the beginning I didn't know myself.
I came out in twenty six and all of people
said to me, well, you must have already known, like
and just hit it, And I wasn't aware that I
did know. And I'll tell you now, Jay, like, the
brain is such a powerful tool, and shame is such
a powerful tool. And when I think back to that

(17:20):
eight year old kid that just felt different and I
had to hide it, like, I feel so sad for
that little guy, because it really did abandon myself and
I think I just I shut it out. I didn't
even allow myself to think about it. It was before sexuality.
I was even thinking about having sex, so anything like that,
I just knew it was bad and I just pushed

(17:41):
it away. So I went through my life, like I said,
trying to just be normal, and as far as I
was aware, it was fine. And it's not until you
really you have these moments where you stop at life.
Life makes you stop sometimes if you don't choose to
stop and look in the mirror, sometimes life makes you
stop it's a you know, something, you losing a family member,
it can be anything. But sometimes you have to sit
with yourself. And I don't know that ever allowed myself

(18:05):
to know. I never had the space to express that.
And that's why I'm hoping with like the book, that
I can help someone that feels not seen and someone
that is going through a hard time, or someone that
is successful but miserable when they get home, because I
never got that opportunity and finding that makes such a difference.

(18:25):
It makes a difference in the job you do, the
relationships you have, the friendships you have, and just generally
who you are as a person.

Speaker 2 (18:32):
I think that's what people don't realize. I love that
point just made that it actually impacts all other parts
of yourself crazy, because it is your identity. It's crazy,
it's who you are. And so if you're hiding that part,
you're hiding all these other skills and talents and abilities.
I know because one of my closest friends came out
when he was thirty. Yeah, and he just and he

(18:54):
grew up in a Muslim background, and so that was
extremely hard for me because of the religious pressure, and
it was such a journey for him and he thinks
about who he became after that age, and it's almost
like everything went in its favor after that. Yeah, Whereas
up until that point it always felt like everything was
working against him. But he, like you, also felt that
he had to hide and you know, not be honest

(19:15):
with himself.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
Yeah. I think my whole life changed when I authentically
and it took a few years to get to that point.
It took ver a bit, took understanding, it took being
with myself. But part of that was moving to LA
And I think the great thing about moving to LA
was that I didn't feel any shame because I'm also
a dad and I hold that very close to my heart.

(19:37):
My biggest focus in life is being a great dad
to two kids, and any parent out that can connect
to that, I will always put them before myself. The
difficulty with shame is it's very different, difficult to heal.
When I wasn't just feeling my shame, I was feeling
shame for them. I was feeling shame. Yeah, I felt
a lot of shame and moving to America, the part

(19:57):
of it that became easier is because an introduction could
be like, hey, I'm Chris and it's like I'm gay,
you know, and no one blinks an eyelid. But where
I grew up in the town where people knew me, Hey,
I'm Chris, and it's like I didn't feel confident to
say I was gay, and if I did, they'd be like, oh,
he used to be he's got a family, he's got kids,
Oh my god, you know, and there was always this
secret conversation. It was just this It felt dark still,

(20:19):
it still felt like people wanted to keep putting me
back in the box. So, you know, it was kind
of part of moving to America was at the first
time that I could experience what it was really like
to come out without all of the outside noise because
I'd already made a life on myself. Yeah, and you know,
I get it. People. When there's a secret, people want
to talk. People love to you know, when there's a secret,
people want to know the answer to it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Talk to me about that time in your life, because
when you started dating the mother of your children. Yeah,
and that experience you were married for like ten years,
nine years, nine years, Yes, it was it's a long
period of time.

Speaker 1 (20:51):
We were never married, but we were yeah, nine years
and committed yeah, I mean it was amazing. I generally
believe I was meant to meet Kate. We were together
for nine years and it was magical. Nine years. It
was great. I had two kids, and I honestly, for
I had it all figured out. I remember at the weekend,
I'd be doing I'd be doing the man stay, I'll
be painting the fence, I'd be like fixing things. You know.
I was just doing all the things that I thought

(21:12):
I was supposed to do as a man. And when
I did realize I was gay, I mean, god, it
came crashing down.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from
our sponsors and back to our episode. What do you
think it was about that moment that allowed you to
be conscious that you were, like you said, for so long,
you were hiding it, you were suppressing it, you were
putting aside. You're doing all the quote unquote things you're
meant to do as a man. What was it that

(21:40):
brought that up for you? When you felt like like
you just said, you felt like you'd figured it all out.
You're two beautiful kids.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
You loved, you know, because from the age of a
to the age of twenty seven that held my breath
and I could finally excel. I couldn't hold my breath anymore.
I couldn't do it. I tried, I kept trying to,
like and I I couldn't. And once I put my
tiptoes into breathing, and how good that felt, I couldn't

(22:06):
stop it. But then came the shame of, like, well,
I'm going to hurt all these people I've created this
life with. So I kept pulling back until I just
had to let go.

Speaker 2 (22:14):
How long did you carry that that shame of? I know,
but I don't want to tell them because it would
hurt them and break what they've built.

Speaker 1 (22:22):
Once I knew, I had an experience which I talk
a bit about in the book, and it wasn't anything heavy,
but I was, I said, when I was a kid,
I was sat down. I grew up in northern England.
There wasn't middle to north, and it was kind of there.
Being gay wasn't really a thing. There was a gay
pub in town, but it was on the outskirts and

(22:43):
the men that went were quite flamboyant. It wasn't really
spoken about. Princess Diana was on the news shaking a
man with AIDS without gloves, and that was headline news
because you know, the like could she get AIDS? And
I'm shaking this man's hand. People didn't know enough about it,
and they knew about AIDS, and it was kind of
told to me that gay enda AIDS, so I was

(23:04):
also fearful of that. One I was prone to OZD like,
I just felt very conscious of that. So I had
an experience that I kind of met someone. We became friends,
and it never really went beyond friendship, but he told
me one day that he was HIV positive. I remember
he didn't even live near me. We had a phone call,
conversation daily, but I became friends with him, and it

(23:25):
was the first time that I was kind of like,
I like this guy, like I really like him, and
I kind of was trying to understand it. So it
was a slow process. And then he told me you
had HIV and I was like, well, I can't. I'm good.
I'm absolutely good. So I literally just cut it off.
And even though I hadn't done anything, I felt like,
oh my god, cod I get a HVI because this
is a thing I don't know. It was really really scary,
and then I guess over the process of the next year.

(23:45):
I think once, like I say, you kind of put
your foot in the water. It was just it was
hard to go back. And then once I actually did
meet someone, yeah, that was it. There was there was
no going back.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
That period of your life, I can imagine is when
you look back at it now, it's probably one of
the most difficult times because it's almost like.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
It got way harder.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
Yeah, which we'll get to. But that moment of I
can finally be honest with myself, but I don't know
how to be honest with the people that I love.
That's like a there's one thing of like, oh wow,
I can finally be honest with myself.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
That's huge.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yeah, but then it's always harder when you're trying to
express to the other people. I imagine, what was it
like telling your partner at the time.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I told initially my partner, and that was a process,
and I also had to respect that she needed to
go through her own grief.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Were you aware of that at the time when you
told them? Yeah, well that's mature.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
Because I loved her, I really loved her, and I
didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to be different.
I went back to being the kid at school. But
once I told her, I kind of just went on automatic.
I told my family and everyone needed to process it
the way they needed to process it, and I just

(25:04):
had to be respectful of that. You have to let
people go through their own grief. I can't control their emotions,
nor do I want to. I think it's really important
for people to feel and go through the process. But
the hardest part was telling my kids, and I think
mentally for me, I couldn't really ever get my head
around that. I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't
think I ever would, but I do feel ready. I

(25:28):
feel ready to talk to people because I feel like,
hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a
difficult time. But my job as a dad, I felt,
was to protect my kids. Going through what I went
through as a kid, being bullied was horrible. My childhood
was a lot of memories are not great ones. So
the idea of bringing that to my kids was really
painful to feel that they would get botheried because their

(25:51):
dad was gay. I know the things that kids say
and how I mean they can be, and I just
didn't want them to ever have that shame that was
put on me, onto them, and in a way, I
felt like I felt like a disease. I felt like
it was like a cancer. I wanted to clear it
out of me. I was like, if I could just
get rid of that, then I could just be a
normal dad for them, because that's what they need, you know.

(26:12):
I just, I just I felt so selfish putting myself first.
So eventually people started to talk, as they do. It
was a small town, and me and Kate decided to
tell the kids, so I couldn't even say the words.
And I think maybe a lot of people can relate
to this. Initially, saying the words I'm gay is a

(26:33):
challenge because once those words are out, it's done. I
actually didn't say it. The mother of Kate's mum actually
said it. And then I just saw these two beautiful
kids who were like six and eight, and they were
just they were upset because they knew why I was upset,
and they were confused, and all of a sudden, I
just felt like I'd I felt like I just messed

(26:55):
their life up, and I felt like I'd failed as
a dad because my job was to protect them and
if anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them. But
I was the one hurt in them, and I couldn't
understand that. I also just couldn't hide it was gay anymore.
I was so exhausted from it. So after telling them

(27:16):
it just a confusion killed me. And my son said
to me, you know it, does that mean you're going
to you know, have your arm like this? Like because
he was so young and innocent and kids at school
would do there was already things said, you know, And
I was like, no, you know, I'm just me. I'm
the same. I'm not going to change, but that are
you going to change? Are you going to be different? Yeah?

(27:37):
I kind of just shut down and I left. And
I left not because I was three, but I left
because I felt so much shame. And I got in
the car. I drove for a couple of hours. I
drove for quite a long time, felt like five minutes.
I just felt like I needed to get away from them.
I just I felt like I was contagious. And I sorry,

(28:01):
I've not really spoke about this before, so to be sorry. Yeah.
So I I felt like it would be better for
them to have a dad that was dead than a
dad that was gay, and so I I brought some
pain colors. I brought a bottle of alcohol and I
checked myself into a hotel, and the whole time I

(28:23):
had a picture of the kids. It was like this
computer case it had and the smiling on it. They
wrote a message on it. It was silly, it was
just a little computer case, but I was just holding
it the whole time. I slept with it a lot
throughout that period, just I just wanted to protect them,
you know. And I took the tablets and drank the alcoholic.

(28:44):
I rank itate and I apologized for the pain that
I've caused, and I closed my eyes and I just thought,
this is it. This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore,
or you know, I won't bring any more pain, and
maybe I'll stop hurting too. The rest was a blur.

(29:07):
I remember sirens and stuff, and I just then remember
being in hospital and I could hear voices, and I
remember thinking, is this it? You know? Where am I?
And something changed then, and it was really powerful because
I realized I couldn't hate myself anymore than I had,

(29:30):
and I couldn't try and stop being gay anymore. I've
done everything with my powers my whole life, creating a
different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be
and take all the boxes, but I knew I had
to reveal the truth. And so in that moment it
was really quiet. It wasn't dramatic, but I just remember thinking, well,

(29:57):
what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm
just gay and I just be that? And I don't
really know where to begin with it, and I don't
know where it's going to lead me, but it has
to be better than what I've been doing. And in
that moment something changed. I decided to live. And I

(30:17):
think that's the moment where I went back to that
eight year old boy standing at the window and allowed
himself to be seen. That was the beginning of it already.
So although it was one of the darkest nights of
my life, I think it was a turning point. And
like I say, it's not something I take lightly. I

(30:38):
think it's not something I've ever spoken about. But I
hope other people in watching this can maybe feel heard
or seen and find the help they need, or even
maybe it's a parent that's struggling and understanding their child
to understand how dark it can be when you're left
in silence and when you don't get to express who
you truly are, or even if it's the kid that

(31:00):
did the bullying at school, and see how painful it
can really be for someone.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Yeah, Chris, thank you for sharing that, because it's.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I just didn't feel like I could write a book
talking about my story. I think there's this perception of
me that people see on social media, and it looks
like my life together, it looks like I look pretty polished.
I think people tell me that, you know, I'm going
to work with amazing women, you know, and life looks glamorous,
and from the outside it probably looks like I've got

(31:30):
it all together. But there's a very different side. And
that's what I want to talk to people about, and
that's what I want to help people with. And it's
not just about my journey. It's about helping people realize theirs.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Yeah. No, I really appreciate you sharing it because we're
seeing males suicide rise.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
We know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt
for long periods of time is not healthy for someone,
even if they don't, you know, try to commit suicide.
And I think having people like yourself who've been there,
who are open enough to share how you get there,
and it's needed right now. It's needed right now help

(32:07):
a lot of men. Yeah, a lot of people, but
definitely a lot of men right now who need it
as well.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
And I think also just like stereotypes and boxes that
we love to put people in, it's like you don't
have to fit. Particularly I'm old. I think you are
who you are and you should have time and space
to develop that and what it is. And I'm someone
that spent my life trying to avoid that, and then
I had to do the really painful part of them
picking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone

(32:32):
else and what was truly me. When I did that,
there was a piece to it.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Were you relieved when you were up in the hospital.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Yeah, I mean I don't think I ever wanted to die.
I wanted to kill the thing that I felt that
was destructing my life and the thing that made me
feel different as a kid, the thing that made me
not blend in with all the other boys and girls,
like I wasn't like all the regular guys, and I
wanted to not be different. Now I love being different,
you know, as an adult now I've realized the beauty
and being different. It's so a special thing to be

(33:01):
able to have that talent to be different, to let
it grow, and when it's not suppressed, my God, like
the whole world can change. My whole whole world really
did change. And it can be such a beautiful thing.
And I'm not talking about success. I'm talking about inner happiness.
You know, there's a lot of successful people out there
and they're not happy. You know a lot of people
some unsuccessful people and they're not happy. I think true
happiness on the inside is really I don't know, it's

(33:23):
a really powerful tool.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
How did your family react to obviously come into the hospital?
The kids like now, it was almost like there was
in that time the first shock that you're gay, and
then there's this shock of nearly losing you or being
a critical situation. How did you how did Katie, the
kids and family?

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Really Yeah, I think there was really everyone understanding. I
don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just
trying to get through it because everyone's trying to process
it themselves. I think everyone had questions and everyone's like,
well did he always know? And like was that my fault?
And did I say something when he was a kid,
and when I told him about like gay men and
sexualiy and I think a lot of people were questioning,
I don't know, did they know, did they see something?

(34:04):
And I think everyone was just trying to process something.
It didn't really matter to me in terms of like
that was the time I came back to myself. So
there was there was a change in my brain where
I really just was like, I'm going to allow myself
to be and I'm going to be respectable of everyone else,
and I'm going to be supportive because it's just who
I am. But I'm going to be, you know, I'm
going to be I'm going to allow Chris to be

(34:27):
and I'm a gay man and that's it.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
And I imagine at that time the shame that had
been hanging over obviously the kids went back to school,
they were now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like
you said, everyone wants the answer to the secret. Now
the secret's out totally.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
People love a secret. Yeah, people love gossip. You know,
I get it, like we all do it. Everyone loves like,
oh yeah, you know. But I think once the secret's out,
people are like, oh, well, you know, it's just not
as exciting. It's all right, well.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
And felt that kind of able to move on from it.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
Absolutely and listen, it wasn't an overnight sense it was,
it was just a mental change for me. I still
had to through the process.

Speaker 2 (35:01):
What was that process like, because it's like, like you said,
you bottled it up for that many years. It comes
out in this extremely dark way for you personally, shame, guilt.
Thankfully you're still alive. But what did that process actually
look like? Because like you just said, and I don't
want anyone to hear this and go, yeah, oh wow,

(35:23):
one night just change, you know, Like I don't want
them to have that perspective either, because that isn't true
from the book. And I'm excited for people to read.
I'm encouraging people to read the book because I think
when they engage with it and you're sharing of it,
they'll get the context that you won't be able to realize, Like,
this wasn't an overnight change, It wasn't a one night switch.

(35:47):
But walk me through the process you had to go
through over the next few months and years to rebuild,
because you said you almost came home to yourself totally,
but then you had to build this new house.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Like anything starting anything new, the unknown, and so I
think I took every day as it came, every hour
as it came. I've always been a big believer in
therapy and he's so helpful to be able to and
I think it's I also think it's something that if
someone is struggling, that if you can, and you have
the resources too, you should use because I think it's

(36:18):
a really healthy way of being able to be and
really be in the moment and really feel things. And
I think working with therapists to try and understand, even
making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a
therapist and Kate, did you know. I think everyone was
on their own journey. But personally, for me, it was
just taking every day as it came. And there were
good days and there were bad days, and there were

(36:39):
days I still felt really shameful, and there were days
I didn't feel such shameful. But I think, as with anything,
and when you're grieving something, and I really was grieving
a loss because I was grieving the loss of people
I used to be and so in a way it
was like a death because I was letting go of that,
I was letting go of this image that I created
this man that I created and what came with that
man family, And so then I had to you don't

(37:02):
have it all figured out. I'll be honest with you, though, Jay,
I still don't have it all figured out. I wake
up every day and I'm still figuring out I think
as humans we are. I'm grateful for that because that
means I'm always learning and I'm always growing. And if
I'm growing and that that makes me feel happy because
I'm alive. Yeah, you know, no one ever has it
all figured out?

Speaker 2 (37:18):
Me too, I fully agree, I don't.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
I mean people think because you've got a book, or
because you've had some successful work, or you know, you
got it all figured out. No one's got it all
figured out. But I think for me, I've always been
really interested in other people's journeys and inspiration and understanding
how someone else took on. And this in my journey
is not for everyone. Everyone's different and everyone has their
own journey, but sometimes you can just take something from it.

(37:42):
And you know, for me, that's why I did the book,
because I was trying to help people come back to themselves.
And I don't think I can do that if I'm
not telling them my story yeah, you know, to say
I had a really dark moment too. A lot of
people have had dark moments too.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, but it's brave and important to share it. And
that's one of the reasons why I've been talking about
the difference between Western and Eastern ideologies, because in the
West you have this before and after, so it's like
I used to be like this, Now I'm healed, i' fit,
I'm amazing. And the reality is the Eastern worldview would
say everything's cyclical. You're always two steps forward, three steps back,

(38:21):
you're always maintaining, you're always sustaining. You don't just it's
almost like you don't just end up with a six pack.
It's like that's something that takes to work, and.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
The next week, I'm like, what happened?

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah, And that's and that's something that's physical that you
can see and it's tangible, what to speak of emotional
grieving and growth, and so that idea of before and
after it doesn't really exist. It's like before what and
after what? The reality is you're constantly growing, each and
every one of us and me included too. I think
even with the work I do, I definitely carry that
baggage sometimes of people thinking I'm teaching from the place

(38:54):
of perfection, and it's like we're not trying to Yeah,
it's like, actually, I'm trying to do the opposite and
just trying to be a friend who's nudging you in
the right direction. And by the way, I do this
as much for you as I do it for me,
because the more I talk about these ideas, the more
and I'm sure you felt that with your book, the
more you're talking about these ideas, the more responsible you
feel to actually live them.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
And honestly, I feel like if there was something like
this when I was a kid, when I was an
eight year old kid or a twelve year old kid
at school and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience,
probably could have saved me going in the direction I
did and made up a choice, you know, But that's life.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I'm doing some research for my new book right now,
and I was researching the I was speaking to the
head of suicide at Harvard and he told me two
things that stayed with me. One was that one of
his friends committed suicide even though he knew his friend
was the head of suicide at Harvard and never told
him anything. And so just shows how hard it is
to even talk about it with someone, even though your

(39:53):
friend is an expert, and so just because you're a
therapist or a coach or a guide or it's not
easy for people to open up about these things.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
No, I've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just
talk about it. But I hope that in doing so
that it will help someone else. And it's not to
say any of the things I've done all right or wrong,
but it was my journey and it led me to
where I'm at now. And I think if you can
take some of the shame away from people struggling in life,
and you know, I think someone like me, where people

(40:21):
perceive me to have it all figured out, maybe to
know that they've not and there's been some really hard
times in my life enables people to be able to
talk about theirs too and feel free to be able
to express them at that and there isn't so much
shame around it.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
Yeah, it doesn't make you weak, Yeah exactly. Yeah, it
doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time
right now, or you're struggling to pay the bills, or
you're struggling to take care of the family you.

Speaker 1 (40:44):
Love, and everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's
the beautiful thing of life.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Did any men come back from your childhood over time
that you feel reconcile their relationship with you or from
the bullies or whatever, bullies or even yeah, bulliese family,
like anyone that you think was negligent maybe or unaware
at that time. Did you ever have any good conversations

(41:09):
with any men as life went on?

Speaker 1 (41:11):
My brother actually is actually recently. We were very different.
He was in a very different place in his life
and I was just a kid trying to grow up.
You know. He was a good ten years old on
than maybe maybe twelve years he was twelve years older
than me. He actually met me in London. I was
there for some shoot and he said I wanted to
meet and I'm all right, well okay. So we met
and had dinner and he actually apologized and he sat
down and he said, you know, I was really shit

(41:31):
to you. I was really shitty, brother, and I don't
think I realized how much pain you were in. And
I think he was in his own pain because everyone's
got their own journey. And you know, I found forgiveness
in that. I found forgiveness and it was actually really
really special. Like I say, that's what I mean. It
wasn't an overnight thing. This is literally ten years later,
like my brother's apologizing. But I also I'm mature enough

(41:54):
and have done the work enough to recognize that he
was going for a difficult time. He used drugs and
he was going for his own thing. But you know,
here's sort of acknowledgment of that still stopped me in
my tracks and was like, yeah, that was tough, but
I forgive you, and a forgiveness is also a beautiful thing.
And letting go and moving on. Yeah, I like me
to move on. I like to go right through something

(42:15):
and then let it go, and I think that's a
beautiful thing. It's brutal, it's really hard, so easy to avoid.
So many people avoid stuff, complete avoid and completely just
let's pretend it' snampling. But for me, what works is
to really feel it and sit in it, because then
I feel like I can let it go.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Yeah. I mean, it's really mature to have that worldview
of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their
pain at the same time as you are. Yeah, And
it's really hard to compare pains because you can't. They're
all so unique and everyone's valid. E's got their own journey.
But to accept that requires a lot of mature and depth.
But first, here's a quick word from the brands that

(42:55):
support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.
Now let dive back in. How does it feel now
that you've said it out loud and talked about it?
How does that feel in your chest? Hot?

Speaker 1 (43:07):
Well, I mean I probably you could tell as I
was talking I was getting quite tight chest. If I
ever even really talked about it, my chest will get
very tight. I'm grateful for that. I hope I never
get used to it because it was a very extreme
thing in my life and I'm an emotional guy. I
love the people I love, but I've liked not to
feel shame anymore. And I think part of dealing with

(43:29):
shame is being able to talk about it, being my technology,
being able to look at it in the mirror. And
I felt like sharing that is empowering to me and
hopefully others. I feel lucky to be able to share
my journey with other people. Hopefully you know, someone finds
it interesting or can give them a different perspective on
their day and in their life. And I've done that

(43:51):
in like an outward sense of a visual with people
know that with my job. But I think the internal
part is just really where it starts, because when you
marry those together, that's when you have your real power.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
I mean, as we've been talking about this in this journey,
that none of us are perfect and it still shows up.
How does how does shame still show up in your
life today? Like how does it still have that stronghold
in life?

Speaker 1 (44:16):
I woke up this morning I cannot talk about that.
I can't talk about that on the podcast, had this
complete like panic, I woke up this one of and
my god, I can't talk people think I'm crazy, Like
that was a really dark time and it was a secret.
It's a secret. And then I had to stop myself
and I'm like, ah, it's a secret. It doesn't need
to be I'm not that person anymore. No one is
the people that we were in that time. We've all

(44:38):
moved on and evolved and I'm in a better place
in my life now. And I think with wisdom comes
you know, like you being able to educate people and
share people. That's like me in my head dressing, career, learning,
all these amazing techniques giving them all to myself. And
everyone has said to me before, like you really want
to share your techniques? People might copy you, and I'm like, god,
I hope they do. I hope they have great hair. Yeah,

(44:58):
everyone everyone deserves it. I think some new takes. I'm
onto the next thing. So yeah, I mean, look, we're
human beings. Like I said, none of us have it
figured out. But I also have great people around me
to be like Chris, remember you're helping others And I'm like, yeah,
that's what I want to do.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
You know, as your journey grew, did you find you
share these stories with clients and talk to people that
you were close to And no one.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
Really knows this about me too, So I think probably
a lot of people might, you know, be like, okay,
I didn't know that part of you because, let's face it,
in human interaction, most of the time, it's like, Hi,
hell are you look great? You know you can go
oh yeah, and then we move on. We don't always
open up the blinds and you know, pull people in
because it's difficult to do. You know, even on social media,

(45:39):
people say to me, oh, you know you like you
have this Polish social media, you bring people in more.
It's difficult sometimes to do that when it's at a
camera in front of you, and I think I've always
been very one on one. That's what I do. But
that's why I wanted to package it up and put
it into something that people could read and take in
them themselves.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
I want to know what happened because this was all
still while you were back home in England. Yeah, and
so this isn't even the career journey that we see
now that hadn't even begun then. Yeah, in terms of
the public part of it. How soon after did you
end up moving to America and did everything shift?

Speaker 1 (46:15):
I stayed in I moved to America when I was
thirty one, so it was four years later. And during
that time, I started to travel backwards and forwards. I
was kind of commuting backwards and forwards. I started working
with an artist and you know, they travel around. I
was kind of doing different types of hairdressing work. I
remember I got a call once I was in London
and I had an email actually that came through and

(46:38):
it was from Jalo's team and I remember thinking, oh wow,
but it was too much to kind of take in.
I was like, it's like, are you available? You know,
we wanted to see if Chris Appleton was available for
a Vegas show and I was like, oh, it's interesting.
And then I thought, well, how does Jalo know who
I am? It was the beginning of social media and

(46:58):
I was posting, not really know what I'm doing, but
I was just posting all different hairstars I was doing,
so I guess when I look back, my brand quite
quickly was apparent. I was always changing up. I'm not
your beachy wave kind of guy. I like to do
a look, do the next one, move on, that's next.
I was very excited by hair and I was just
posting all that, so I kind of felt what was cool?
But I'm in England and that's Hollywood. I sart the

(47:21):
land of dreams. You know, it's far, far, far away,
and they're not going to fly me out, so all right,
well I just left it and I thought, maybe this
is just like a Maybe it's like a fake email.
You know, you get a lot of random emails, Hey
is that madam? You've won ten? And I'm like, oh
how about you know I haven't replied into them anymore,
but for when I was younger I used to. So
I left it and a few months later I got

(47:41):
another email. I thought, well, maybe this is a thing, maybe,
like maybe I could go to LA you know, it
seemed like the big shining star, and that's where a
lot of stars are, and I loved the excitement. As
a kid, I was always really sort of mesmerized by
the power of transformation. Back then it was Madonna, you know,
she would have a different look per album, and I
always loved how each look. Really it started a trend.

(48:05):
People would start to wear it in the streets and
it was like a whole vibe. So for well, maybe
I'll go to LA. So I pretty much decided to
do it. I packed two suitcases. I had a whole
apartment in London that I'd worked very hard for, small,
basement one, but nevertheless it was mine. And I packed
two suitcases and I moved moved to LA.

Speaker 2 (48:26):
And without even a plan.

Speaker 1 (48:28):
No, you have a dream, No nothing, I had a dream.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
Man was I was like, how many followers did you
have this time?

Speaker 1 (48:34):
Four or five thousands?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Right?

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Right?

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Oh wow?

Speaker 1 (48:37):
Yeah? Yeah, really early days. But I did have a
hope and I for what's the worst that could happen.
I'll come back if it doesn't work. So I remember
I moved to America for the first three or four months,
sending to do anything. I'd spent all my money. ELI
is really expensive, and I remember thinking I'm gonna have
to go back home. And then I got a call
to do Christinea Wherever's hair on the Voice, which I

(48:58):
speak a little bit about in the book. It was
an experience that didn't go so well. It was like
my one opportunity and it seemed to go very wrong.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
You felt you didn't it went wrong to go right.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, Okay,
I'm going to do this. I'm going to do my thing.
It's the Voice. Everyone watches the Voice, but we have
to understand this. When you live in the UK, it's
like this many people see it. When you live in
the US, it's like the world sees it. It just it
was bigger. Everything was bigger. And I remember going to
the Voice and there was like three hours to do

(49:29):
glam and the makeup artist went in inside the trailer
and I just sat outside. So I was like, okay,
I'll just wait for a bit, and then I went
by and I was like, well, maybe she don't need
too much done to a hair, you know. And then
two hours went by and I'm like, well maybe, like
the hair's probably done and I'm just going to be
finessing it, you know. And then the last twenty minutes

(49:50):
before the live show, I'm like, I mean, so I'll
just go home, and they called me in, so I thought, well,
you know, she definitely got a hair done. It's gonna
be good. Right twenty minutes, I mean, what else can
it be? So I'll go in. And it wasn't good.
It wasn't done. It was ready to be done. So
she's like, what do you want to do? And I

(50:11):
was like, well, or what I really want to do?
It's two hours to do? Yeah, but whatever we got
to waiting for.

Speaker 2 (50:16):
You to go in or no. No, I think she was.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Just like doing make up, probably got chatting and there
was no will intention really, it was just like whatever,
you know, like you're in the chair every day, you know.
And then I went in, so I did that thing
the headressers do where you stop moving the hair around
if you ever sat in a chair, and the headress
was kind of like, we're just kind of touching it. Yeah,
it means we don't know what we're doing it just
we're kind of just like hoping something's going to happen.

(50:39):
So I said to her, like, would you if you
ever try to wis? I thought that would be great
because it'd be fast, and she's like, I don't like
wigs somehow, of course you don't like wiggs. And then
I really lost myself and I was like, why would
you like anything I've got to do? Like you see me,
you see the little boy and standing in the wind,
you see little Chris, Like, what am I doing it?

(51:00):
I'm a joke. I'm a joke, Like why I am it?
And I felt like that shame again and I felt small,
so small, and I just had this moment. It was
actually the mother of my kids, Kate, who we are
still best friends and she has always been so supportive
throughout my career. I called her on the way and
she said to me, look, Chris, if you don't make
this work, you're going to have to come home because
I have responsibility and my dad, I have the kids,

(51:20):
you know, And I remember you think if I don't
make this work, we I have to go home. So
I thought you know what, Let me do me, and
if she doesn't like it, that's cool. We're just not
a match. But if I don't do me and do everything,
I know, I'm thirty one, I've spent my whole life
learning this craft. If I don't do me and walk away,
I'll always kick myself. So I said, you know what,
you've never tried more weeks, Let's try it. She was like,
all right. So I put it on the head and

(51:40):
she was like, oh, and I'd finessed wigs. I got
really good at them because I used to work with
cancer patients and and all these little tricks I kind
of like from one area of my life then turned
into making me good at it for stars. And so
I put it on ahead and there was no time.
She was like, I like it. So I put it on.
It was like no time. She literally got up and
run off onto the onto the show, and then she's

(52:01):
on live TV. And you know, that was the time
of social media. Because I was also very nervous because well,
everyone's going to have an opinion on this, and when
it's good, it's great, and when it's bad it's not.
When it's bad, you'll know about it.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
It's good, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Bad, it's bad. So I remember she came off the
stage and she it was like a little break and
she was talking to someone like this, and she looked
over at me and she went, everyone likes your wig,
and then just carried on talking. And in that moment
I knew that and it was great, Like she looked great,
and then we worked together. You know, at the beginning,

(52:35):
you look right. I mean, I don't want people to
think I am being arrogant in telling that story, because no,
I'd put so much of my whole life into my craft.
I wanted to learn it inside out, upside down, left
to right. I knew every aspect of her for me
to be able to be able to stand there and
know that it was the right thing to do. I

(52:55):
wasn't being pushy or anything. I just knew that this
was right. And therefore, if it didn't work, it's like
a relationship. If it didn't work, it's okay. Yeah I tried.
If I don't do what I know to be true
and good, then I'll always kick myself and I'd hate that.
And I think part of my coming out story, and
you know, seeing my full self again was not ever
letting myself not be seen, and you know, I wanted

(53:16):
to present as I was and the knowledge I knew
and that was it was a success story in it,
and that was the beginning of my career in Hollywood.
It just rolled on once people saw her hair because
we did this kind of really icy wig and then
I did these hoops in the hair. And then I
started working with Ariana and then Kim and then Adele
and it was Jlow and it just Katie Perry just
just evolved. You know, who's doing that? That's cool. You

(53:39):
know pop stars or artis started to change their hair up,
so it's like, okay, so it's very fast. That was
very fast, but I was very prepared because I'd spent
thirty one years in my life learning it.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
It's really interesting because I'll tell you later I have
a very similar story of because when I first moved
out here was everyone's asking me to teach them how
to meditate or yeah, coaching them or guiding them spiritually
their life. And so I was meeting a lot of
people and our work, finally enough is similar, even though
it's very different. It's very intimate, it's very one on one,
it's really present in someone's life, and I had a

(54:10):
similar experience. But the thing I found as well was
if I was trying to be what they wanted me
to be, I couldn't be that. I just knew how
to do what I do, and that's really hard. When
you feel inexperienced, you feel like an impostor, and you
feel like you don't belong here, which is how I felt.

Speaker 1 (54:29):
Too, tellally, which we all feel, which we all feel
when you have success or whatever.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
Yeah, and you come and you're like, oh no, but
this is a bigger world. It's a different world, and
it's different iballs, and then you're just like, no, actually,
I have to trust the work that I've done up
until now. And that doesn't make me egotistic totally. It
just makes me experienced. I've got to trust the experience
I have, and most importantly, it makes me me So
I love that message from your experience there, which was

(54:54):
if you hadn't done the WIG, it would have just
looked terrible because you wouldn't have been able to do
anything in that time, and so you had to trust
your instincts, which was my experiences. Let's go with the weik. Yeah, totally,
that's amazing, and then obviously you became such good friends
with Kim and everyone. It's like, what's been your favorite
part about building these amazing relationships because the work is

(55:15):
so intimate, it is so connected to them.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
I'm so grateful to work with everyone who worked, but
I was just feel very lucky to work in their
presence because they're amazing on what they do. You know,
they're an artist in their own and to be a
part of it, I just feel very grateful. And you know,
I Kim up become very good friends. We have so
much respect. But her to see her at close, to
see you know, the world sees one thing. They see
Kim Kardashian. I don't really see her like I see
as Kim, you know, and she is a mother, an

(55:40):
amazing mother. She is a businesswoman, you know, to see
what she did with Skims and build that, and just
to see how she is with everyone that walks in
the door. You know, she speaks to whether it's an assistant,
a lighting person, what she's says hello to everyone, introduces herself.
She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person.
She's well closed, a really really great person. And so

(56:02):
I think organically you spend so much time together with
the people you work with, obviously there's a friendship there.
And I'm just incredibly grateful I've got to work with
the people like I do, and you know, see them
in the light I do, because I guess not everyone does,
because again, we all make assumptions. Everyone's just seen a
vision or an image or a quick clip on TV
or a clip here on social media, and we all
make assumptions. It's what we do. It's okay. But I

(56:22):
just feel grateful to have seen a side that maybe
others haven't.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
And yeah, I'm sure you lot what are people like? Really?
I'm sure you get that all the time from people
work at home as were like, oh, what do people
really like behind the camera? And it's I always find
it so refreshing to be able to be like, you know,
a lot of the people you watch, they're actually really
wonderful and nice. There isn't some big conspiracy, you know,

(56:46):
it's just they're just wonderful humans who are really nice
and they're really great at what they do. What they do, yeah,
what they do, and yeah they treat everyone with respect.
It and it isn't as juicy as you want it
to be No. Yeah, so with your journey with that piece,
it feels like, I mean you said it earlier, were like,
it only gets harder. Yeah, And it feels like even

(57:07):
though now you were having this success and that was
moving fast and you have become the person you've become
where you are the go to person in the city
but across the states for all of these people to
turn to whether the musicians, models, talent. And then I think,
now it's been like just a year from your divorce again,
and that was with a very public relationship. Was that

(57:29):
the first time you'd had a public relationship.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
It was definitely the first time that I had experienced
that magnitude of people being so invested in my private life.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
What was it like having such a public romantic relationship
as someone who for years before that, let alone having
a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship.

Speaker 1 (57:55):
With a man. This is the first time I've ever
spoke about this, And I think people have this perception
from social media, probably like I said that I have
it together. I work with these amazing people. Life looks glamorous,
so from the outside it probably looks like I got
it all together. But the truth is especially during that
time I was going through a lot of private pain

(58:18):
and then you go with all the online speculation part
people say things about you. There's things in the tabloid
and people that have an opinion on your life, and
that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying
to deal with things. I think for me, what really
helped me was not being okay. And you know, I've

(58:41):
always believed in therapy, and I work with a therapist
to really sit in my feelings and really go through
them and understand how I felt. And that is really
brutal to go through it. But for me coming out
the other side, there's a part of you that feels
like you can you know, reflect on it and move on.
The biggest lessons I learned is finding alignment. From what

(59:05):
I do is all about visual you know, It's what
I've done my whole life, and even what people see
of me is this visual representation of Chris Heppleton. But
I think for me there was a real peace in
finding alignment and in a peace on the inside. And
like I said, that wasn't an easy process. But I
think when you align those two, when you genuinely feel
good on the inside. I think that's when your real

(59:27):
power comes in place. And I think, you know, just
because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you
have to go and explain to everyone about your life.
And I think for me, I really wanted to deal
with it with peace and deal with it my way.
You know, there's an interesting thing about living in the
public hige is people have an opinion, and that's okay.

(59:48):
I don't mind people saying good and bad things, because
you put yourself out into the arena, you're going to
get that. But I think for me, as a dad,
I wanted to protect my kids. I always want to
do that, and I'm very aware any relationship I go
into there will be a conversation around that. And so
I think for me, making sure that I had that
internal alignment, which I never had my whole life. Finding

(01:00:09):
that and being comfortable with that and finding happiness was
a really beautiful thing. And you know, you can love
someone and then not be a forever happy ending. I
think you learned so much from it. I think any
relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it.
I've learned what's important to me in terms of boundaries
in terms of how I want to be loved, how

(01:00:31):
I want to love And that's a beautiful thing because
it means you're always growing and evolving.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from
our sponsors, thanks for taking a moment for that. Now
back to the discussion. It was you far for a divorce, right,
like you were the one who yeah, ended it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
When you look at that in the perspective of the
whole conversation that we've had and everything you've been through,
I can imagine that's not easy.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
Again, No, but I think again, like, it doesn't mean
you don't learn something about yourself. And just because it's
not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. And it's
a bit like going to buy a house, Like you know,
we could go and look at houses. I particularly like bright,
lots of space. I don't like confined and dark. Some
people do, and that's okay, just not aligned. And I

(01:01:19):
think one of the biggest things I realized about any
relationship I've been into or go into is the importance
of alignment. And I think for a long time I
didn't have that, and I think finding that within myself
has been special. It's about growth. And like I say,
as long as I'm growing and evolving, then I'm alive
and that feels great.

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Why do you think you didn't have that alignment? Maybe
when you met and because it moved fast, right.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Look, moving fast doesn't always mean you're reckless. I think
sometimes it means you're hopeful. And I think any relationship
ever been into, I've gone into with an open heart
and I have no regrets about that. I think we
shame people too much for leading with an open heart.
And I think the sad part about that, especially when
it does and work out, And I think the sad
part about that is you can learn to retract and

(01:02:04):
protect yourself. But I would rather love and fall than
to never feel anything at all. And I think I'd
rather experience something and feel alive than to never put
my thought out in the water. And I think as
long as you're growing and evolving from it and things
don't always go to plan, I think as long as

(01:02:26):
you go through it and go through the process of healing,
I think that's really important, then I think you're doing
all you can. I don't know. I feel like I
felt like a responsibility to just really look at everything
as any situation I've ever been in, I've always tried
to look back and reflect of, like, do I feel
like I'm happy with where I'm in my life, how
it is visually and how I feel internally, And you know,

(01:02:47):
if not being able to sit in that and sit
with it and process it and go through it has
been a really magical part because it doesn't really matter
what anyone else says. I know my truth and I
feel happy. I really value the people that are in
my life. I have an amazing family. I've worked really
half of my career. I love the people I've supported family,
and I'm really grateful for that. Yeah, and ending doesn't

(01:03:09):
mean it didn't mean anything. It just means it ended.
You know, as many relationships have been through my life, friendships, relationships,
they've ended, and I've tried to learn something each time
from that experience.

Speaker 2 (01:03:23):
Yeah, I really appreciate your take on not closing off
and not kind of building a wall to And you
are right. We do make people feel bad for falling
in love or moving fast or whatever it may be.
And I think also coming from a South Asian culture,
I've seen the dangers of demonizing divorce yeah, and looking

(01:03:47):
at divorce as a failure or a negative thing, when
actually I look at my community and I'm like, I
wish this person would get divorced, and this person because
you know the truth and when they open up to you,
and so it's almost it's interesting. We've made people feel
bad for maybe opening their heart, and we also made

(01:04:09):
people feel bad for it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:10):
And I get it. I get it. And people love
to say like, oh, I knew you know, that would
happen and that wouldn't last. But I don't know. It's
just who I am. I go in wholeheartedly into every friendship,
every relationship, you know, every family member, and I've learned
to protect myself and also honor myself. Like I say,

(01:04:31):
I keep mentioning in alignment, but it really is a
key part of like my healing is to be able
to leave a situation when it's not right anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:04:39):
Yeah, why did it feel again important for you to
talk about it now as part of this journey with
the book?

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
I think it's just always I think every part of
my life, if there's something in the tabloid or people
want to know, I think I would like to sort
of share my experience. So people can relate and maybe
not feel so alone. My biggest guy is to make
people realize that it doesn't matter where you came from.
It doesn't matter what the situation was that you got

(01:05:04):
stuck in. You can move on, you can evolve your life,
and you can have your come back at any age.
At any age, it's never too late. So many people
think it's too late. They're not twenty. They think they're done.
And I think, I don't know. Some things are for
a season and some things are forever. Like that's life.
Life is life. Love is messy. People are complicated. We

(01:05:28):
all bring our old trauma and baggage into a relationship,
whether you're willing to admit it or not. And like
I said, that's just life. It's about alignment. And if
something's not aligned, it's okay, whether it's a relationship or
a friendship or a marriage or whatever it is in
your life. I think so many people get so fearful

(01:05:49):
of not moving on or change. Change is so scary
to people. Change, I know, by just people changing their hair,
how terrified that be? Well, people are going to recognize
me or people are going to I'm like, yeah, that's great,
see a new you see, actually you that this is
actually going to be great for you. You have a
whole new look. You could have been stuck with that
old hairstyle that you showed me a minute ago, a
whole life, you know what I mean. You know, it's

(01:06:13):
like if you don't know, you don't know at the time,
I bet you thought you were killing that. This is
straightened my hair? Why you straight hair? Because someone told
me to have beautiful natural texture? Someone bringing you back
to that, like, I don't know. It kind of helps
you form who you are, whereas maybe you canform to
society because society said you should straighten curly hair. I
don't know what the answer. We're all we're all conditioned

(01:06:36):
to that, following the lead and following the pack, and
you don't always have to do that. To not do that,
you have to have some balls. And like I think
part of finding that strength is to be able to
sit with yourself. And I can honestly say any situation
now that I'm ever in, I can sit with myself
and I can process it. And it's not always easy.

(01:06:58):
In fact, doing the work is brutal. It's never easy.
But the last thing I feel like I need to
do is tell everyone because it's my journey, it's my story,
and you know, when I'm ready, which is why I'm
doing the book now you know you can share it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
How did you protect your peace at the time, because
I imagine it's not easy when you're going through it. Headlines,
whether they whether you take them seriously or react or not,
they still hurt and everyone's asking, you know, I know
what it feels like where you're Sometimes I find that
when you also have family that's not connected to the industry,
I'll always get a load of messages as well from
back home from friends and family. Again, I just saw

(01:07:33):
this thing about you know whatever. I just saw that,
and I'm like, guys, like I'm dealing with it, like
you know, this is normal in my world now, yeah,
but it's not normal for them, and I can find
that that's hard sometimes. Was there any was there any
of that feeling of that kid looking out the window,
like was that any of that coming back through this
as well? Or how did you protect your piece at
that time?

Speaker 1 (01:07:53):
I think there's a lot of private pain. Like I say,
no one is immune to it, but I think for
me working with like have an amazing therapist I've always
worked with, and I am so profound the same person
that you worked with the whole time. Yeah, wow for
how many years? Maybe the life was since I moved
to America, So nine years.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Wow, that's impressive.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
And for me, therapy just enables you to like sit
in it. Therapy really helps you to do that, and
therapy really helps you to move on and let go
of situations that you know no longer serve you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
So it's been around two years. Now, where's your headspace
at now?

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
I think I just feel grateful to have had the
experiences I've had in my life and to have the
knowledge and the wisdom to be able to process them
and let go of it and move on. And I
think with every chapter of my life, I'm so grateful
I had that each and ever experienced good and bad,

(01:08:52):
because it led me to where I'm at now. I
think I'm in a good place, not every day, but
more so. And I ever have been in my life
where I've abandoned myself and it's such an easy thing
to do, and I'm just so aware of doing that now.
It's like I can't not see it. Once you see yourself,
you know how many people look in the mirror. Every
day you look in the mirror, maybe I think the

(01:09:15):
average is twelve times a day. They say on average
is an hour a day from brushing your teeth to
checking your hair, whatever it is, having your hair, got
an hour of your day of looking yourself in the mirror.
So many people see a reflection. Not everyone looks at themselves.
We just look, but no one actually really looks. And
part of my job and my journey has been, I guess,
showing people the real mirror so people can really see

(01:09:36):
themselves and be seen, and a lot of people are
not seen. And when you really see people and you
break it down to like, why have you always done this?
Why have you always repeated this behavior? Why have you
always got yourself into the same situation? Why have you
got yourself into the same relationship? There's a pattern to it.
Once you see the pattern, and once you break it down,

(01:09:57):
you can change it. That's really empowering. I did it
with hair for a long time, but I didn't realize
I was also doing it in an internal way, and
everyone can relate to that. People saying your hairdress is
your therapist. I didn't even know I was doing that.
That's a real part of it. The difference is I
used to do it with everyone else, and I'd see them,
and you know what, I never saw myself. I didn't

(01:10:17):
see myself for twenty seven years of my life. I
didn't allow myself to look. It was easier to make
up people see themselves and for me to look at myself.
When I saw myself, I could not see it anymore.
I could not see who I was and who had become.
And that defining moment of my life changed every decision
moving forward. And so if in my bad friendship, if

(01:10:39):
I'm in a bad relationship, if I'm in a bad
work environment, I'll leave it if it no longer serves me.
And if i feel like I've done everything I can
to be the best person I can and no one's perfect.
Humans are messy, that's okay. But I've learned to respect
myself enough to be able to go back to that
little boy at the window and say, it's okay. You

(01:11:00):
don't have to be in that anymore. You don't have
to feel alone. You can be seen. And I'd hope
that's what everyone does and maybe finds a bit of
that when they read the book. And obviously it's called
your Roots Don't Define You. It's about roots and it's
a double edged sword, but it is such a powerful
thing that if you actually stand and look in the

(01:11:20):
mirror and look at yourself. This book is for anyone
that looks back and it's like is this it? Or
anyone who looks in the mirror and is like, I
don't really know why I look the way out look,
or anyone that does have some success but it's so
miserable or somemartimes, just people thinking there must be more
to life. Hopefully this will help people feel like they

(01:11:43):
can change that and they can have their comeback, and
they can transform not only the way they look on
the visual because everyone knows I do that, but if
they can do it internally, I'm telling you now, their
life will change. And I hope people can take what
I land because I feel like everyone deserves to be free. Yeah,
you know, I see people in the supermarket, I see

(01:12:04):
people walking in the street, and I'm like, I wish
you knew what I knew. You know, And I think
it's just really special to be able to share that journey.

Speaker 2 (01:12:10):
What do you see in the mirror now when you
look in the mirror you see yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
It depends on the day. Some days it's all right,
and other days, you know, like I'm still like I
really should lose five pound to my hair a lot
good better blonde. You know, you read a comment on
social media like you look way better blonde, and I'm like, oh,
you know, it's all right. We all have those voices
in the head. I hope they're always there. It keeps
me alive, it keeps me. I just laugh at myself now.

(01:12:36):
I think I try and treat most things with humor.
You know, if I do see a headline about myself,
or if I do see someone say something, I'll try
and laugh it off because I was, what else are
you going to do? You know, It's like I probably
couldn't have done that before. If I went back ten years,
I probably couldn't do that. I probably would have gone
crazy and been like, oh my god. Now I'm like,
it's okay, it's just someone else's opinion. That's all right.

(01:12:57):
You know, I can actually laugh at it, and I'm like, well,
you know what, probably do look a bit like I
need to lose five pounds or I don't know, I
can relate to it. I'll just at least laugh at it.
We were talking about red carpet pictures. They can make
you crazy, you know, like you you think pretty good
about yourself. Yeah, I'm good. You know, I feel like
I look good. You take a picture?

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Is that what I look like? Man? Tell me about it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
Oh my god. I saw this picture myself and I
was like head to toe in brown and for some reason,
the background was red and my hair was kind of
the same line a lot like a log and that,
you know, it's this text shame Aroun'm texting my hold
I look like a log, and I just laugh at it.
You know, It's all right, it's fine. It's just nothing's perfect.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
You get over it after you realize there's more bad
pictures of you and Getty than good around. Then I'm
with it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:37):
And that's the same with like a headline or what
I'm like. All right, it's cool, you know, fine, whatever
I mean. It's not easy. I'm not I'm not saying
I laugh everything off at all.

Speaker 2 (01:13:44):
I'm I have.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
I'm a dad, and my number one goal is to
protect my kids, you know, because they're going to see everything.
My family see everything. But I've also learned to be
able to know that if I'm aligned, sometimes I have
to go back to that and I have to sit
back in it.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
I'm okay, what have the kids read the book?

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
Yeah? They have. Well, I think it's kind of for them.
It's interesting because I'm Dad. I think one of the
proudest moments of my life is the fact that they
have been through so much on this journey with me,
but they can still look at me and call me
Dad proudly and that means everything to me. And I

(01:14:29):
don't want to have any secrets. I want to share
my journey with them, and as difficult as some of
those topics are, I'd rather show them and say that
was really hard, and I moved on and this is
where I'm at now. And I didn't just move on
because like it was easy. I moved on because I
went through it and it was brutal and it was challenging.
But do the work, you know, and it will lead

(01:14:50):
you to a better place.

Speaker 2 (01:14:51):
We reached out to the kids and they send us
a note for you. Yeah, and so there's one each
and I'm going to ask you. I haven't read them yet,
so I'm going to hear them for the first time. Too.
I can ask you to read Kitties out loud.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
Okay, I can read it out.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
For us, because I've not read it either. I wanted
to save it for you.

Speaker 1 (01:15:16):
There are so many things I wanted to say over
the years, and sometimes I don't know how to put
them into words. But today I just want to tell
you how proud I am truly to be your daughter.
You've been my example of strength, compassion, and integrity for
as long as I remember. For every chapter of life,
you've shown up with grace and honesty. You've made sacrifices

(01:15:38):
that I'll never fully understand, and you've given me a
love in a way that made me feel safe, valued,
and seen. Even now, watching you open your heart and
share your story to the world, I'm constantly inspired by
your vulnerability and courage, and that's rare and a beautiful thing.
You've given me so much more than I could ever

(01:16:00):
thankful your love to shake me and your belief in
me has carried through. I love you so much and
I'm forever proud to be your daughter. Love Kitty. Oh God,
I don't know I'm shaking. Oh God, I don't know

(01:16:20):
what to say. Oh that's how you get me with
my kids. I'm just I'm just so grateful that I
have them and that they've been a part of this journey.
And like I said that, the biggest achievement of my
whole life is that they can call me Dad and

(01:16:43):
say it with pride, because it's been so many times
I've not I felt proud of myself, and I have
not been kind to myself, and I think a lot
of people can relate to that abandonment of themselves. And yeah,
having them is this is the greatest gift.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
The beautiful letter and this one's from billionaire.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
You know what. I remember that night telling them about
you know, being gay. It was especially for a boy.
There's so it's kind of what guys say, you're gay,
you're gay. It's always pinned as a bad thing. So
I knew he was going to face so much going
back to school, of people talking and people whispering and
people saying stuff to him. And they both have gone

(01:17:25):
through so much. They never let me see because they
knew I was going through my own pain, So like, yeah,
this means a lot. Okay, dear Dad, where do I
even start. One of my first memories as a kid,
is you a dressing up a superman to surprise me
on my birthday. I thought I'd just met my hero.

(01:17:48):
I didn't realize it then, but as I grew older,
I came to see the real superhero wasn't a costume,
it was a man inside. He went from cutting hair
and a small local salon to taking a massive leap
and moving across the world with nothing, and somehow across
the chaos, you built a life out there. You work
with Hollywood stars, become a businessman, appeared on TV, and

(01:18:10):
now we' even written a book. And for all of that,
you're still the same guy who makes people laugh and
lights up every room, and who does everything he can
to make the people around him happy. But what sticks
with me the most isn't just what you've accomplished, is
what you've taught me. He's shown me how to be
confident myself and not to care what other people think.

(01:18:30):
And you've taught me how to stay motivated to reach
for the stars. And most importantly, you've taught me how
to be respectful, kind and caring and beyond proud.

Speaker 2 (01:18:39):
To be on.

Speaker 1 (01:18:42):
Keep doing you, dad, God, Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
I'm kneel in Jos is listening. It's so beautiful man.

Speaker 1 (01:18:51):
Yeah, it's very special.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
It's amazing. Yeah, I feel so proud. I have to
raise two kids who love you that much. That's pretty special.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
Yeah. But you know, any parent listening knows that their
only goal is to make sure their kids grow up
with the least amount of pain. And we all know
the harsh reality of life. You know, when you're a kid,
you're so innocent and life is so free, and as
we grow older, there's so much baggage phone iturs and
I think the only thing you can do is try

(01:19:23):
and understand it. And I spent many of my years,
like I said, trying to unpick what didn't belong to
me and shake that off, and shake that package off.
And if I can save them, if I can save
them having to go through some of the struggles I
went through because I didn't allow myself to be then

(01:19:45):
I did okay with that, you know, all right, I'm.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
So grateful to you for you, know, your time and
energy writing this book. I love about how you talk.
When people dive in, they'll learn about the personal hate,
so that we all have inside of us to learn about.
How you talk about how shame lives in the shadows yep,
to learn about this whole journey of what it means
to make a comeback, and and.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Also to realize that it's never too late. Yeah, it
really is never too late, and sometimes we spend years
of our life trying to figure that out. But once
you have that realization, and hopefully the book will be
that realization that it isn't too late and maybe a
few footsteps into going into the right direction to change things.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
Chris, we end every episode of On Purpose with a
final five. Okay, these questions have to be answered in
one word to one sentence maximum, so Chrisp's in easier
final five. Questionable one is what is the best advice
you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
Live and let live. I think everyone's experience is different.
If there's one thing I've learned in this time on
the earth is that everyone's going through something. Everyone has
had heartache, everyone has had trauma and different baggage, and
one is going through some things. I think to try

(01:21:02):
and remember that and let people you know, live, and
like live you know and be We're so judgmental sometimes
and we, like I said, love to put people in boxes,
and that's something that we all do. If you're aware
of it, you can understand and be more forgiving towards people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
My second question is what is the worst advice you've
ever received?

Speaker 1 (01:21:25):
I guess stay in your lane. I think I've been
told so much of my life to fit in a box.
There's no boxes you need to fit.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
In question number three, your favorite look you've ever done?
For Kim and Jaylor.

Speaker 1 (01:21:40):
Easy, Kim's met Ball, she did the mole look. It
was like the finger Waves look and Jlo super Bowl everyone,
I think unanimously. They tell me that my favorite, your favorites,
they're everyone else's favorite.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
I think your favorite.

Speaker 1 (01:21:54):
Listen, I'm going against the green. Everyone's going to come
for me. But I love a blonde Kim and taking
that platinum as a whole thing. So probably a blonde Kim.
I love that. And then j Loo, I don't know.
I really like it when we did like a short.
We did a short hair style for her on The
Couple of a Law and I loved it just because
it was so different. I love seeing someone really take
on a different character in a different story and just

(01:22:15):
try it out, you know, fearlessly.

Speaker 2 (01:22:16):
I love that. Question number four, what do you see
when you look at the inner mirror. Now, so you
told us you on the outside sometimes you're like five
pounds blonde hair.

Speaker 1 (01:22:27):
Yeah, what does the inner mirror look like? I think
I see a guy that doesn't always have it together,
but absolutely tries his best to be the best version
of himself, primarily to inspire my kids that they can
do the same. And now this book so with people

(01:22:47):
feel like they can share that journey with me. And
I want to hear over people's stories. I want to
hear over people's journey. My greatest pain growing up was
that no one spoke. No one spoke about it, no
one spoke about their experience. And I think people that
speak and share their stories and their journeys, the more
we can all learn and accept and grow all said.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest
who's ever been on the Showah, if you could create
one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
what would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:23:14):
My one law would be that everyone stops, looks in
the mirror and just says, is this enough? Is this
what I wanted? Is this where I'm at? And? If so, great,
but at least just to stop and really look, how
did we get to where we got it's going to
realize that if you want to change, you can, because
like I said, I've always done that with my hands

(01:23:36):
and sitting in the chair. But I realized there was
this whole world that people don't know about. But once
you know, you can't see it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:44):
Chris Appleton, The book is called Your Roots, Don't Define You.
Everyone who's been listening and watching, I cannot wait to
see what you're taking away. I want to see all
the tiktoks, the instagram reels, the stories. I love seeing
what you extract from these conversations applying your own life.
You've had a friend or family member that you haven't
even known what to say to you because they've been

(01:24:05):
on a similar journey, send this episode to them. I
think it's going to help a lot of people on
their personal journey of transformation and reflection. And make sure
that you keep coming back. Make sure you subscribe so
that you never miss out on an episode, because it's
stories like this that we built this platform for where
people can come and talk about the upstairs downs, the
real healing and what that actually looks like. And I

(01:24:27):
highly recommend you go and grab a copy of Chris's book,
Your Roots Don't Define You. It's available for pre order
right now as we're speaking. Chris, thank you again so
much for trusting me, for trusting the platform. Thank you
for what you do jes so open and honest.

Speaker 1 (01:24:43):
It's a real privilege to be here and share it
with you, because I feel like you two have shared
your journey and since spiring to a lot of people,
so you know you're a big inspiration to me, so
to be here is very honored. So thank you for
your time.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
I genuinely have so much respect for you to be
able to talk about some really really difficult stuff, and
I think in the world right now, this message is
really really needed. There's a lot of people that this book,
this interview is going to help, and so thank you,
and I'm so grateful to you for using your platform
to spread this message. You could talk about your life,
you could teach people how to build a big brand,

(01:25:17):
you could teach people to do so many things. But
the fact that you've told them about your truth and
how they can find theirs, it's a really beautiful offering
in service. So thank you, Chris, thank you, thanks so much.
Thank you. Mate. If you love this episode, you will
also love my interview with Kendall Jenna on setting boundaries
to increase happiness and healing. You're in a child You

(01:25:39):
could be reading something that someone is saying about you
and being like, that is so unfair because that's not
who I am and that really gets to me sometimes.
But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like,
but I know who I am.

Speaker 1 (01:25:49):
Why does anything else matter?

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