CHRIS HEMSWORTH EXCLUSIVE: The Untold Story of His Anxiety, Fear of Failure & The Diagnosis That Changed Everything

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We're watching memories disappear in front of us. Everything we
thought was solid and true and consistent was going to
dramatically change.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Chris Hemsworth, Welcome to On Purpose.

Speaker 1 (00:11):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
It's great to be here. We're in Byron Is that's
me specific. Soya come to Byron to interview you, and
I was just sharing with you. When I first started
the show, you were on that top list of people
I wanted to sit down with. So it took me
seven years to get to Byron Bay. Thank you, But
I'm really really grateful. So it's such a fan of

(00:33):
your work. I loved watching your interviews, felt felt just
a connection to what you're doing. And then as you've
gone into this world of Limitless and now this incredible
documentary with your father, it's such a phenomenal evolution from
the authentic version of you that I feel we've always
got to see in interviews.

Speaker 1 (00:51):
So oh appreciate it. Yeah, thank you.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah, really really special.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah. I love the show and I'm glad you could
make it out of here and we could do this
in my hometown through Shiful Well.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
I wanted to dive right in because in the dock
we get such a up close and personal feel of
who you are, your family, your parents, and I love
understanding how people became who they were. So the first
question is what's a childhood memory that you have that
you feel defines who you are today, that feels like
it is such a strong part of your personality today.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
What you see in the documentary is the road trip
my dad and I take back to the community that
we grew up in, this indigenous community, Dolden Territory in
the outback of Australia, and they were definitely my most
vivid earliest memories. I have trouble remembering kind of years

(01:43):
earlier than that and years after that, you know, because
I think one it was so starkally different to the
environment in Melbourne where I grew up, but I think
there was it had such a profound impact on me
due to for so many reasons, the connection with that
and that the people in that community. The experience itself

(02:05):
was so dramatically different to anything as I'd done, but
the immersion within that that that in indigenous culture in Australia,
and having feeling this sort of influence from the I
guess the sort of traditional way of life that they
embodied and the welcoming we received in that town I

(02:31):
still have when I think about who I am and
my appreciation and sense of gratitude and place in the world. Definitely,
I'm brought back to that period of my life. Trying
to think of a sort of a single sort of
thing for you, but that that period of time for
me is the most, the most vivid.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
And what images flash in your mind when you're thinking
about that time.

Speaker 1 (02:55):
Is it not owning a pair of shoes, not having
a TV, being the only white kid, and an indigenous
school buffalo walking down the street, being five hours drive
from the nearest shops. You know, it was like a
little remote community in the middle of the outback, and

(03:15):
but how normal it all felt, you know. And to
be sort of thrust back into that environment now would
be sort of a shock to the system in many ways.
But that was as familiar and comfortable and organic as
sort of anything I've ever felt. And you know that
I see photographs now that prompt instant sort of visceral

(03:40):
feelings and a deep sort of nostalgia and warmth and happiness,
you know, in a sense of connection, because that was
you know, he lives in a tent at one point,
you know, with my parents and my older brother. We
then lived in a sort of a very older, sort

(04:01):
of run down house. But it was it was as
you know, wonderful of a childhood as you could ask for.
You know, there was no it was sort of boundless,
the opportunities where the imagination could go, and the sort
of the physical experience. You know, it was again unlike
kind of anything else I've had since then. You know,

(04:22):
it was sort of Peter Pan quality to that sense
of fantasy and adventure that was instilled in us from
that age, but that that environment definitely awoken in us.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, and I guess when you're living here, you don't
know how specially it is.

Speaker 1 (04:35):
Yeah. I think like all of our experiences that you know, there,
the norm is what is in front of you, you know,
and if I had something to compare it with at
the time, I may have, but it was that was
my way of life. And then it was kind of
a shock coming back to Melbourne and adapting into I

(04:58):
guess the world that a suburban neighborhood, you know, structured
sort of you know town that we lived in and
catching the bus to school and the train and all
the sort of the usual things that for me was
an adaptation that was I remember kind of going, oh,
this is this is very different to where we had
sort of where we'd come from.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, your dad in the documentary says that as a
kid you would say I'm going to Hollywood. Yeah, I'll
go to Hollywood. Where did that come from? From this
world that you grew up in.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
I think part of it was growing up in Northern
Territory because there was this sort of sense of adventure
instilled in me then, and I remember my dad reading
Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit to me and
my mum as well, and that sense of sort of
fantasy and imagination awakened through through a sort of a

(05:49):
very big cultural difference. But also I think being outdoors,
you know, the opportunity for not boredom, but not being
continuously stimulated and entertained like we asked it of nowadays
with devices and so on, there was I guess being
in that environment awoke something in me that I still

(06:11):
now either try and get back to or when I
do attach myself to it, it ignites that sense of
fantasy and that sense of adventure. But through reading books
and then when we moved back to Melbourne. Every weekend
was you know, we would go to the movies, or
we would hire a film, or we'd go on hikes
and we'd go surfing and we go camping. And I

(06:32):
remember from a very young age not wanting to be
an actor, but wanting to be one of those characters
in one of those films, one of those books. And
the closest thing I could be to, you know, an
elf in The Lord of the Rings, pressed up and
played one in a movie, or the closest thing I could,
you know, get to as far as antigalactic travel or

(06:52):
something was playing the character in that movie. And I
guess it was sort of sort of an escapism of sorts,
but not that I was escaping from anything. I didn't
to be a part of it was it kept me captivated,
you know, and still does. The transportation to other worlds
and inhabiting other characters and other spaces, it's yeah, and

(07:16):
it sort of it comes from a different each film
and each character I sort of I look at and
that sort of journey I embark on. There's a sort
of a real organic attachment to it. As far as
I wouldn't say I'm seeking out that character as much
as they sort of arrive. And then as you sort
of fall into a character or fall into a film,

(07:40):
it then sort of takes on a life of its
own and takes it to places that I think you
just have to be open to, you know, interpretation, but
open for the journey.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
You mean by playing a character. Yeah, it opens up
a different mindset or different for sure.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
It probes different parts of your soul or psyche. And
there's a premeditated sort of a proach and a sort
of calculated approach, and then there's an absolute sort of
demolishing of all that preparation and surrendering to the process.
And then and that's the part. I love you, and

(08:14):
you only get that through an extreme amount of preparation, yes,
and calculation, but then the letting go portion of it,
and which is where the risk is involved. But then
that for me, is where the greatest adventure occurs, is
through kind of really leaning in and really surrendering to
the experience.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
That rings true. I had the fortune of sitting with
Kobe Bryant before he sadly passed away on the show,
and he talked about how structure leads to spontaneity. Yeah,
it was that discipline, as you're saying, leads to the
ultimate ability to be free and surrender. But as I
hear you say, I'm wondering, it's obviously not something that
you mathematically strategically access because you're saying, it's happening in

(08:55):
this really natural, authentic way where it leads you. What
roles made you feel that way or which one are
the ones that have a strong memory for that for
you where you went, oh wow, this led me to
a place I didn't imagine it would.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
I mean, it's interesting because I sort of I think
I undulate from the extreme analytical, over ruminating, calculated analysis
of something and then into the sort of you know,
more sort of mad scientist, you know, intuitive sort of approach,
but they go hand in hand, you know. The sort

(09:27):
of the polarity between the two I find is really helpful.
And I'd say the film with George Miller, part of
the Mad Max series called Furiosa, and that, for me
was was probably the greatest example of that kind of
character taking over and being led into a place which

(09:47):
you didn't plan for. But it only the sort of
improvisational portion of it or the experimentation of it, or
the you know, throw caution of the wind and just
leap in. The first came from months and months, or
actually a couple of years, because I had read the
script two years before, and while I was doing other films,

(10:09):
I was thinking about that character. It began to sort
of infect my thoughts in a daily and to the
point where I had to kind of try and put
it aside because I had to get back to the
film I was currently on. I was talking to George
Miller about that, and he goes, well, selfishly, I don't mind,
you know, you can give our character more of that.
And it was the first time I kind of started
journaling as the character and started doing a you know,

(10:32):
he was a pretty ugly, villainous individual on paper and
on screen as well, I guess, but I had to
find a way to sort of understand and empathize with
his position and from his point of view, he was
the heros and you know, everyone's And so by the
time I got to set everything that i'd sort of
planned began to fall away, and each day was again

(10:55):
kind of an experiment and a real sort of deep
dive into the psyche of this individual and what were
the sort of justifications for his actions which were perceived
from one angle as you know, horrific, but from his
angle and his position, from where his people were standing,
Survival of the fittest, And yeah, I've had that a

(11:16):
few times in my career, but that certainly stands out
is one of the biggest ones.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
I feel like there's so much empathy in becoming an
actor because you're trying to understand this character that you
don't know, but you have to kind of get to know,
and you may not feel what they feel. One of
my friends is an acting coach in La and I.
He invited me to just go watch one of his
sessions with actors at night. So I went to see
him a couple of weeks ago, and I was just like,

(11:40):
if anyone feels lonely, they should just go to an
acting class. Like everyone was so encouraging of each other,
and there's this real camaraderie that everyone had and everyone
give each other feedback, and all of it was about
dissecting character and emotion feeling, and I was like, wow,
I've learned more from this than you know about human
emotion and about human potential sure and depth. Then you

(12:02):
would going to a class because there's so much study,
and there's so many layers, and there's so many And
as I'm hearing you talk about it, I'm like, yeah,
there's such a But it sounds like you love that,
Like it sounds like a lot of yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
I mean, I've always had a big interest in psychology
and understanding us sort of in a workings of soul
and our psyche and us a human beings and we
interact with one another and nature versus nurture and the
how and why of it all. And for me, there's
just something therapeutic about the experience of acting and putting
on the clothes of a completely different individual and having

(12:37):
the chance to look at the world through a different lens.
And I see that as a real gift you compared
to a lot of sort of I guess you know,
our working life. It is. There's just an abundance of
creativity and exploration there which which I find, you know,

(12:59):
incredibly helpful, just even I mean from each character I
find I come out, whether or not I agree with
the character or not, I've been able to sit in
their shoes for a moment and look at the world
in a different way, and I think there's a sort
of humility that's forced upon you in that sense, which
I find I find a really interesting sort of experiment,

(13:20):
and as you've been pointed out, I think very healthy
for all of us to do. You know, I know
a lot of directors that you know, have never acted,
and it scares the hell out of them, but they
go and do acting classes for that reason, to understand
the psychology, also understand how you're going to come at
this character or what the position is that you might take,
and as opposed to standing on this side of the
fence and making assumptions, stepping into those different environments certainly,

(13:45):
and it gives you a greater sense of agency. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Has there ever been a character you played where you
felt I wish that one didn't rub off on me
or left with you there?

Speaker 1 (13:55):
I mean, it's I find that it's not that the
lines get blurred. But I've been in im press too.
Was defending my character and then we tapped on the
shoulder and like the guy killed a bunch of people.
Oh yeah, okay, besides that part, and so it's sort
of I don't think the state I will get myself

(14:17):
in for certain characters through the day a very heightened
sort of fight or flight type state where I am
there's a sort of feels like there's electricity running through
my bones, and you've especially when there's a lot of
dialogue and there's a lot of reaction, a lot of
lot going on, that I find very hard to switch off.
It's not so much the character that I'm trying to shake,

(14:39):
it's the energy that's required to play that character, and
I find it with one of the hardest things to
the high to come off is improvisational sort of comedy,
you know. And I remember doing then when we did Ragnarok,
there was a lot of that in there, and it
was a very new version of the character, and I
would get in there's sort of ecstatic sort of you know,

(15:03):
electrified state and be kind of drinking coffee and red
Bull and slam and you know, energy drink to try
and elevate that more. And then it was like I'd
have to kind of rein that in and get home
and I'd just be sort of twitching and try to
come off that. So I find that the residual effect
of the state of the character more so than the.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Yeah, it's more about getting into characters.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, because you could put that that that I don't
necessarily have to believe I am the you know, leader
of an army or whatever. It's more what would I
feel in that situation that you then embody and then
that sort of takes out.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
That's fascinating to hear. Yeah, yeah, but the jitters are real.
Like that's like you've talked before about this idea of
how your acting career has actually brought on huge anxiety, Yeah,
and stress. Where where's that come from?

Speaker 1 (15:55):
I remember when I when I first started acting, I
had it immediately once I sort of locked into the
idea that I was going to become an actor. It
was an absolute obsession, that was an addiction. It was
all I talked about it. That was sort of there
was no shadow of a doubt that was what I
was going to do, and there was a ignorance and

(16:15):
a naivety that was there about the reality of how
difficult that was going to be. But you need a
fair amount of madness, I think, to sort of excel
in any space, there needs to be a certain amount
of absolute, deeply profound sort of commitment to it. You know,

(16:38):
you talk about Kobe Bryant and anyone in phys excelled
in in their field, and you know a number of
sports players and individuals that I looked to that's sort
of on the spectrum in some sense. You know that
there's a sort of a mastery there which is otherworldly,
but it does require a sort of an insane dedication
to it. So I remember when I was finishing high school,
it became this obsession that was all I was going

(16:59):
to do and everything I was going to do from
it was I was going to help pay off my parents' house.
I was going to do this. I was going to
do that. I was going to take care of my
family and friends, and oh, you know a little of
the amazing things I could do. And every time I
go into a job, as small as it was and inconsequential,
in my mind was like, if I screw up this
one scene, then it will somehow make its way to

(17:21):
Hollywood from Australia and I'll never get a job again
if I strew up this one audition, And it was
that kind of pressure. It was I was thinking ten
years ahead. And then from the time I got onto
Home and Away, which was to be big, so proper
alongest running proper in Australia, which I flew into that

(17:42):
experience with enthusiasm and excitement, and I was it was
great for a couple of months, and all of a sudden,
I was hit with this wave of anxiety because I
was looking at the outcome rather than the sort of process,
and I was looking at the I'm doing it for
this reason, and that resonate rather than being in the

(18:02):
moment in the present, and it really detracted from what
I was doing each day, and it would be the
last thing I'd think about before I go to bed
was what scenes I'd screwed up and how I should
have done this, I should have done that, And as
soon as i'd wake up, it'd be like a shot
of adrenaline about what I was going to screw up.
And I don't know. I think it became from a
sort of expecting too much of myself, which is there's

(18:23):
a slight sort of contradiction to that too, because as
I said, it requires that obsessive, you know, addictive sort
of concentration, but it's the ability to sort of hold
that obsession and that absolute need and want for it
to achieve something great that you want to achieve, and

(18:44):
then at the same time to completely let it go
and not care. And so I had to do this
strange dance around trying to convince myself I didn't care,
but in the preparation time to motivate myself, I would
have to care a hell of a lot. And so
it's sort of the you know, the the two voices,

(19:06):
the Jacqueline Hyed version of oneself that is sort of
both need to be kept in check. You know, it's
it's your purpose pulls you, your fear pushes you. There's
a sort of strange balance with the two extremes I
find useful but also terrifying when not kept in check.
And and that sat with me for years, that anxiety.

(19:28):
And then I remember I've talked about this in a
couple of interviews, but reading a few books around performance
anxiety specifically, and looking at different sports players and musicians
and people who performed at a high level of public speaking,
and they took their all their sort of measurements, you know,
the physical sort of response responses prior to these engagements,

(19:52):
and said are you scared or are you excited? And
whether you know half the group was in this category,
half isn't excited. The physical response was exactly you same
across the board, elevated heart rate, all the things you know,
you would imagine. So it was about the sort of
the takeaway was it was about an interpretation to that feeling.
And so when I would have nervous energy come up

(20:13):
and all those things that at one point I would
signal myself for fear, I to just narrate that in
a different sense and say, oh no, this is my
signaling for excitement. This is not my signaling for fear.
And again that's I still have to keep that in check,
and it sort of out of know where, it will
take me down one path or the other, and I've
got to kind of wrangle my way back to the

(20:34):
preferred place, which is which is that the enthusiastic is sited.
You know.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
Yeah, what's fascinating about that, as I'm hearing you say,
is it actually makes you better at what you do. Yeah,
like that pressure it sounds like that you were putting
on yourself when you're doing home in a way, Yeah,
even though it wasn't a great experience for you, it's
making you better at the thing. Yeah, And that's what
I find so fascinating about people like yourself or high

(20:59):
performing out fleets or any of the types of people
you mentioned. Is that the thing that makes you better
at the craft doesn't necessarily improve the quality of your
life and your mind. Yeah, and that's that dance you're
talking about, which is so I've got to kind of
be able to unleash the beast to be able to
do the work that I do. But then I don't
want the beast to eat me, Yeah, because then there's

(21:21):
nothing left. Yeah, when the beast is satisfied.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
For sure, there's sort of a blessing and a curse
in a way, because I've had experiences when, you know,
the thing I was trying to remove, which was that
heightened sense of awareness and then the fact that you
know you're absorbing too much information and it's every little
movement or sound. I'm like, oh God, I wish I
could numb that. I wish I could reduce this sort

(21:45):
of state and be more present. And then I've found
my way to that place, either through not caring for
one reason or another, being purely exhausted. You know, night
shoots you just got there is no adrenaline lefe in
the body. I'm like, oh, this is great. I'm comfortable
and the first note is it's a bit flat. Then

(22:06):
the next take, you know, and I'm like, oh great,
the thing they've been trying to get rid of is
actually the secret source. And so that again about the interpretation.
I don't think the feeling itself is the problem. It's
our label we put upon it, which then causes all
the problems. And so I say this to friends of
mine who are auditioning on set and having anxiety or problems.
I'm like, you got to just you're got to make

(22:27):
friends with it. You've got to look at it. It's
very hard to recognize now, but it is a gift
in that sense. It is your spidery sens is coming alive.
It is the ability to think quicker and react faster
and be more attuned to things if you you're allowing
it in the space as opposed to you know, don't
think of a pink elephant. Whenever you think of that's

(22:47):
pink elephant. And I've had so many people talk about
like meditation prior to walking on stage and calming down,
and I don't know, for me, that is like house
of cards, because it's like you're in that state and
then the one little thing sets you off, whereas I
beforehand want to get my state and myself into that
ecstatic sort of state because it's on my term. So

(23:09):
now I own it as opposed to it being something
that creeps in the back door. I'm like, no, I
want this. Bring it on, big, big breath kind of
you know, absorb it, use it. And then and then
I found that that has been really beneficial and I've
been able to use it for the good version of it,
as opposed to it transforming into the one we're afraid of.

Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, it's what I hear you saying
is that when it's in control of you, it feels
like pressure and fear, and then when you're in control
of it, when you're embodying it, it's now part of
your narrative and part of your purpose and part of
you feeling like, oh, this is fuel for how I
want to perform, rather than this is just reminding me
of Hey, if I missed these three things, no one's
going to care about me, and I'll mess this up,

(23:52):
and that obviously is not helpful at all. And so
you're saying, befriending it is transforming it from being pressure
in fear, Yeah, being friendship and purpose.

Speaker 1 (24:02):
Absolutely. Yeah, there's an acceptance to it, there's a surrendering
to it, there's an ownership to it as opposed to
it being something you're trying to avoid. But that only
comes through I think, understanding the mechanisms or the mechanics
around the fact that it is beneficial. If you have
that relation to it, you know it is the worst
thing in the world. If you're trying to avoid it. Yes,

(24:24):
you know, shallow breath, heart rates up, sweaty palms, like
you can't think, everything just shuts down, you know. But
if it's like no, no, the the these these this
physical response is emotional response I've programmed myself to see
as a positive. Therefore it can be yeah, and again
you'll see me broke down at one point, go the

(24:45):
trick can't working today?

Speaker 2 (24:46):
Is a Chris. I've had a similar experience with public speaking,
where I've been public speaking for years on stages and

(25:10):
if I really care, and that's my narrative kicking in.
If I really care, I'll still get straight palms, I'll
still be shaking a little, I'll film my heart rate
go up. And I've learned that all of those things
are just assigned that I care, because I know if
I get asked to speak someone I don't really care,
then I won't feel any of those things. And so
I'm like, oh, I feel like there's some steaks here
and this is important. And then I have my practices

(25:32):
to embody that and feel good about that. But then
at the same time, when I went on tour two
years ago and we were doing nearly fifty shows across
the world, I was feeling a completely different level of
anxiety than I'd ever felt. And I remember two days
before when we were in rehearsals, I just feel really
tight chested. I talked to my doctor and went in
for a check up, and they're like, it's just stress,

(25:53):
and I was like, well, am I stressed to do
this all the time. But there's always what still makes
you nervous or what still gives you a stress.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Now, I mean this stuff, you know, the press, you
know walking I said it all, it all definitely awakens
that that that feeling, and then it's a constant sort
of dance and adaptable sort of the experience. But I think,
you know, I probably have a much easier time now
playing a character than I would being myself. Like in fact,

(26:24):
with this this series Limitless, that was very new to
me to do, you know, be in the documentary space
and play Chris, and I felt really uncomfortable from that.
And I got better with it probably in the second
season and this and this last episode with my dad,
But earlier on it was like, I have nothing interesting
to say. I don't I'm not educated on these topics.

(26:45):
I don't, and I'm sort of a guinea pig in
the experience. So maybe that's a good thing. But you're
far more critical of yourself than you are. I think
of someone you're pretending to be. Like you said before,
that it's a signaling that you care. I guess that discomfort,
that anxiety is the signal that it's important on some
level and it's something that should be respected and paid
attention to, rather than oh, I'm anxious, How dear I

(27:08):
be anxious, And then the criticism and the judgment, and
then it's like slippery slope. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, It's so interesting to me how so many of
us it's easier to pretend to be someone then by ourselves,
not just for actors, but all of us. Whether you're
playing a performance at work and a persona or a
persona with your friends, and it's so hard to just
let go of that persona. And it's almost like when
I speak to comedians, they're always like, yeah, I just

(27:34):
feel everyone just wants me to be funny all the time,
and they just feel that constant pressure around friends, family, everything,
and they just want to be normal and have a
bad day or whatever it may be. And you know,
everyone feels that pressure to perform in a certain way,
and it's almost like we're waiting for the person we
can take off the outfit around and just kind of
let go.

Speaker 1 (27:54):
I remember my mum talking to me about this years ago,
and she was a high school teacher at the time,
and I said, I'm nervous about this, that and the other,
and being on a certain producer in this and she goes,
it's the same in any environment. She's me as the teacher. Okay, well,
the principles the producer and my students are the audience
or you know, and my work colleagues and the other
cast members. And in any line of work you're faced

(28:16):
with this. It's the sort of a human experience that
you can't escape. And she talked about the same thing
about kind of understanding that and accepting that it always
is a challenge. It's always a navigation of sorts, and
rather than looking at it as my experience is unique

(28:38):
and special to everyone else's and has more pressure than
yours or this that and now that's the trapping, you know,
as soon as you kind of understand it is more
common than uncommon, I think there's some comfort in that.
Like I remember listening to Anthony Hopkins and Kate Blanchett
and you know, people I'd worked with and admired and
looked up to, talking about, you know, imposter syndrome and

(28:59):
this might be my last job, and thinking, really, but
there was deep truth in that, you know, they still
had that doubt, but aware of the fact that maybe
that doubt was a good thing because it kept you humble,
It kept you motivated, It kept you pushing forward and searching,
as opposed to thinking you have all the answers, you know,
and then there's a sort of and there's a lack

(29:20):
of humility.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Yeah, yeah, well you've talked about that as well, right,
You've talked about that idea of fearing saying no, yeah,
because what if it all disappears? And when I read
that you said that. I was like, wow, like that,
you just wouldn't expect that. But we have these codings
from whether when we were young or wherever we picked
them up, where there's like a sense of like, oh, well,

(29:41):
this could all just go away.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, you're growing from a house, you know, loving, beautiful
household and great parents, but we had no money. And
I remember the kind of financial burden that was on
my parents and overhearing conversations about bills and you know,
then borrying money for our grandparents or their parents to
you know, before payday came on every Thursday, or you know,

(30:03):
the twenty dollars we might have had in our piggy bank,
kind of saying we worry that we'll give it to
you next week. And and not that they ever put
that honest by any means, and probably tried to shelter
us from that, but being very aware of it. So
I felt that responsibility and that need to remove that
pressure for them from a very early age. And but

(30:25):
still it's this crazy irrational thought that well, it's going
to run out or it's going to be taken away,
and I won't be able to do that thing. It's
like we've already done that thing. You know, they're all
taken care of their family, cousins' friends, you know, and
not to say my career couldn't end tomorrow, but financially
that wouldn't be a concern due to kind of what

(30:46):
we've put in place. And it's I don't know, it's
it's irrational, it's the logical, and but again I think it,
I don't know. It's sort of I don't mind a
little bit of that just to keep you hungry, but
it has to be tempered. Like all of that. It's
because of the insanity of too much of that thinking
is incredibly detrimental, and you never enjoy what you have

(31:09):
because it's always about I need to get more and
it's not enough for what else can I do I
do to secure this even more? And it's this obsession
with safety I think we all have, and the need
for abundance and in security. But then I look at
my own childhood where I couldn't have felt more secure

(31:29):
and safe, and you know, so money isn't the answer
to that, yet you sort of trick yourself into thinking
it is. And whether that's from society will sort of
understand these expectations and the sort of our relationship to
money as human beings and how we signal or represent
safety and comfort in the wrong spaces. Maybe, but it's

(31:51):
a constant navigation, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, it's almost like what you're talking about is the
power of pattern. Yeah, it's almost like when you've thought
that has been practiced. So with you giving the examples
of like, oh, we're gonna borrow this money here and
we'll pay it back next week, and so you're constantly
living in a cycle of we don't have enough, We're
going to have to figure it out, and that doesn't
disappear when an external situation changes, and you can all

(32:16):
relate to that. I mean I can relate to it
in my life too. And what I love about what
you said the most was it's not about I think
everyone over and I don't like you when anyone says
this whole money can't buy happiness stuff, because I'm like, well,
it solves a lot of problems for a lot of people,
and I don't think that's the point. But I love
what you just said about this safety idea that you
felt safe growing up and it wasn't because of that,

(32:38):
and I think that's an even more powerful truth where
it's like, wait a minute, what about if it was
about safety and we all want to feel safe and secure.
I felt very safe and secure because my mud I've
always described it as my mum's love was like this
protective shield where I never grew up ever questioning whether
I was lovable or not. My mum loved me someone
and that makes me feel very safe. And that wasn't

(33:00):
we had money growing up, And it wasn't because we
always knew what was coming next. It was because you
felt loved and you felt safe and secure because of.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
That, for sure.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
And so there are certain problems that money solves and
it's not safety. Yeah, and it can provide and help
for that, but safety is a more core emotional need, Yeah,
that comes from other things.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
It's another thing I've talked to my mum about the
fact that the lessons I learned and the person I
am and my brothers who we are. You know, growing
up in that household, we didn't have money, And well,
now my kids we have money. What's that going to
do to them? Are they going to not learn the
same lessons that we had and have the same sense
of sort of gratitude and appreciation for things, and she said,

(33:42):
you could look at you know, the households ad a
lot of money, households I had little money, and he
could pick about the same amount of successful stories versus unsuccessful.
And at the end of the day, it comes down
to love, security, safety. Do I feel like I'm connected
and part of this household and appreciated and that I'm
safe to explore who I am as an individual or not,

(34:02):
you know, regardless of this sort of the exterior, the
larger environmental, sort of superficial elements of it, it's around
those core components of love and connection, and that always
gives me comfort, you know, when I'm sitting here thinking
I'm destroying my kids by having this big house, and
you know, abundance and all this so on. But is

(34:23):
always a complex one that sort of navigate in any space.
I guess.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yeah, I think it's true though. I think it's what
you've been saying this whole conversation already, is that you
keep talking about how everything's somewhat of a gift in
the curse. Yeah, and it is that right, Like everything
is like and as soon as you accept that everything's
binary and there is no black or white, yeah, it
is all gray. Yeah, And it is all teaching people

(34:47):
to see the gray and see the nuance and see
the complexity and recognizing that complexity is simplicity in the
sense of as soon as you accept that it is
all of it, Yeah, then all of a sudden, it's simple.
Whereas when you're trying to find a definitive right way
of doing it, it's pretty impossible to find it and
you rack your brain forever.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
It is, and this sort of the thing you're searching
for only exists because of the thing you're not searching for,
like the polarity of things, and it's the you know,
there's no north with herd of south. There's not a
one sided mountain that there's that you know, you only
know love because you know grief. And I had this
friend of mine passed away recently, and I had this
the normal response of grief and anguish and pain and

(35:28):
the why and the questions. And then through that, all
of a sudden, this this lightness and this stillness because
all the trivial things that I was ruminating around day
to day all of a sudden dissipated, and it was like, wow,
it's that simple. It can be gone in a second,

(35:49):
and I wouldn't know one without the other. And so
the sort of grief is as much a blessing as
the love is and the joy because they coexist. You
know that there isn't an individual experience. You can't have
one without the other. And that that, for me, I
find helps navigate the complicated spaces of life. And the

(36:14):
sort of moments of adversity is kind of realizing that
they're sort of one and the same thing. And that's
and I don't do that. I don't exist there all
the time, but every now and then and I feel
like I get a glimpse of it, and there's a
quiet peacefulness to it, you know, it's like the sort
of the louder it gets, all of a sudden, things
just stop. Alan Watts talks a lot about that. I

(36:34):
love just sort of the philosophy around what he presents
in that way.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Yeah, I'm sorry for your loss.

Speaker 1 (36:40):
Yes, thank you. Yeah, I mean it's you know, there
was a sort of out of nowhere kind of tragedy,
tragedy as you know we all experience at some point.
But I just remember having that moment, that sort of
very odd sort of lightness in amongst the Greece, which
he paused for a moment and consider where that came
from and where that stems from and what that sort

(37:01):
of what that message is.

Speaker 2 (37:04):
Yeah, yeah, it's so you're your grief is only as
deep as your love.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
If you don't feel grief about something like that, well
there's probably because you didn't didn't it didn't have that
love and care and it's but yeah, it's not that
that's easy to recognize in the moment or pause, and
but when you get that access, it's something to worth
holding on to.

Speaker 1 (37:23):
Yeah, And that was trying to reconcile the sort of
dischotomy around those two two feelings, you know that the
the sort of I almost then followed this guilt that
I wasn't feeling as sad as I was a moment ago.
And it's like, what is this sort of compast kind
of you know, push and pull between those two states,
And it's like, I don't know, living in the questions

(37:45):
rather than needing the answers to it, you know, all
the time, the sort of the answers of trying to
define the definity why to something and the absolute certainty
of something is just like a danger in a trapping.

Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. Yeah, and we will
just And the funny thing is, even if you get
a perfect right answer, you still won't be satisfied with
it tomorrow. Yeah exactly, Yeah, because then you're like, wait
a minute, if I look at it from this angle,
you know, and it's it's fascinating how the human mind
wants completion.

Speaker 1 (38:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
Yeah, that still keeps locating all the incomplete loops.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Absolutely to get lost in it, Like the unly certainty
is uncertainty, you know, the only constant inconstant.

Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
It's a It does a number on you, for sure.
It's like, I don't know, if you're when you're a kid,
you're kind of lying awake at night thinking about how
big the universe is or what happens when we die
and then nothing and then like oh, it's like kind
of your brain arrives at a place of nothingness, you know,
and that's as terrifying as that, it's kind of liberating here. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
Does it help to have brothers in the industry too,
because I mean that's rare, Yeah that, you know, all
of you have got incredible careers and it's like, how
does that is it helpful to be able to share
some of these challenges or do you find that that's
not really the case?

Speaker 1 (39:01):
No, it is definitely. Yeah, this is a sort of
a point of reference or are There's a camaraderie for
sure and support network between the three of us. You're
in your sort of quieter moments of reflection, you can
kind of go, is this normal? Am I kind of
you know wrong to feel this that and the other,

(39:21):
and what's your experience in that? And so absolutely having
someone who is a complete sort of you know, safe
house for those discussions is a is a real benefit.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yeah, it's really powerful. I feel like that's the hardest
thing for most artists or athletes or people who go
and live other worldly lives. And then it's almost like
you have all your best friends back home or your
the people you grew up with. Yeah, and you need
them because they're the only ones who remind you of
where you started and where it came from, But they
don't understand the new world that you deal with, and

(39:51):
so you kind of have this version of it where
they can reconcile with you the challenges. It's not like,
oh well, Chris, you're rich in famous. It doesn't. So
they're like, oh no, those things are still real, and
you still experience im Paster syndrome, and you still experience anxiety,
and they can vouch for that because they probably go
through the same day.

Speaker 1 (40:09):
Oh for sure. I mean, I feel very lucky to
have them in the same space. But I'd say the
thing that has had the biggest effect on me is
that the team that people I get to work with,
which is from you know, the hair and makeup team,
my costume guy that I travel with, my assistant, my trainer,
that group I've known for about fourteen years. My assistant,

(40:32):
my trainer I've known for thirty five years. I went
to school with my two best mates, and to have
the five or six of us travel together is in
I thought was quite common. Why wouldn't you bring along
your mates and have the same people with you. And
the amount of people I've met in the highest two
positions that live this isolated, lonely existence and don't have

(40:54):
true friendships around and groups of people who who remind
them who they are really and remind them that there's
there's a grounding quality to it. It's such a tragedy,
you know. I think of this this abundance of opportunity
and this sort of you know, one in a million
chants to sort of participate in this journey where you

(41:16):
get to travel and you're dealing with all this experience
and activation and interaction with the world on a level
that you know most of us wouldn't get to experience.
Yet you're doing it alone. You have no no one
to share it with. And I think that's the about
the social connection. It's like it's only as good as

(41:37):
the people standing at the side of you that get
to walk that journey with you, because you know, there's
times when you become a little jaded about it, there's
times it becomes a little normal, normal times when it
becomes boring, and have someone to shake you and go, hey,
that's pretty cool, and remember where we came from and
what we could be doing when what we used to
do is is incredibly invigorating. And I find myself the

(41:59):
thing I'm most fright for, I think in my career
is having those core people with me constantly.

Speaker 2 (42:04):
Yeah, how do you define a real friend?

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Someone you can laugh with and who you can laugh
at each other and it's not offensive or it can
be and that's okay. Someone you can really push it
too far with and they're going to go I'll let
that one slide. I'll get you next time. A true
friend who keeps you humble, I think, keeps you grounded,
the sort of the sort of obvious things to say.

(42:29):
But you know, through thick and thin, they still stand
there next year, and whether it was all to be
taken if it all got taken away, they'd still be
there having a laugh Paty in the back saying, well,
we gave it a shot. And I've got a lot
of those people in my life. I'm very thankful for.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
Yeah, I love that it's it's definitely it's British band
is a big thing. But I got to learn that
Australian band is as strong, if not better, as well,
because when I was touring in when I toured Australia
two years back, and we did three shows at this
in the Opera House, we did Melbourne and Brisbane, and
I have lots of moments in my show where I

(43:04):
bring people up on stage and we're going through all
sorts of experiments and activities and every single person would
banter back. There was no one who's letting me get
away with a joke at their expense and I was like,
this is amazing. It was so much fun. Everyone was
so fast, the equips were great.

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Like it's good. There's a good self deprecating sort of quality.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah. Yeah, and I love that too. Is I feel like,
you know, I have a WhatsApp group with all my
best mates back in London and all we do is
just roast each other all day long, so whether someone
posts something on social media or send this video out,
whatever it is, and I think that that's such a
good test of friendship for sure. And when we when
me and my wife from London too, when we moved

(43:43):
to America, me and my wife roast each other just
as you would roast one of your boys, and everyone
on my team would just think we were having a
massive argument because they just went used to it, so
they thought we hated each other exactly. Yeah. We were like, no,
this is our you know, it's not passive aggressive, this
is this is just like Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:00):
I think that there was a there was a study
done recently and I don't know where I read it,
but talking about that it is at a sign of
true friendship that you can roast each other and give
each other ship and it's a sign that there is
a I don't know, there's a trust there because you don't.
I wouldn't speak this way to someone that I didn't
know that well. And yeah, I thought it was going
to go okay with it. Yeah, a bit of trouble.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Yeah, talking about the worst. The worst was when I
first moved to LA and I was learning about getting
a stylist and all this kind of stuff, and my
friends would just take terrible pictures of me off the
red cart, just keep putting them in the group. Then
why you're wearing a skirt?

Speaker 1 (44:36):
What you do?

Speaker 2 (44:37):
I'm sure you've had a million of those.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Oh for sure. I'll so many pictures of like, you know,
certain sort of fashions at a moment and looks and
it's like, oh it's number seven, you know, a hand
on the end, there's scratch above the head, and you
kind of I find myself of doing those shoots and
then stopping myself because three or four guys back home,
we're going to see it and tell me better rather
than the last majority of people who might not think
twice about it.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I love that and you need that. Yeah,
I think about it all the time. Every time the
hairstyles tries a new hairstyle, whatever it is, I'm like, yeah,
all right, I know who's I know who's going to
send me a picture of this tomorrow. It was I'm
so grateful that I got to see the documentary because
I I went through a really and I shared this

(45:20):
because of how powerful it was for me to watch it.
And so my greatest spiritual mentor, who I grew up
around in London, he passed away during the pandemic and
I couldn't go back to his funeral. I was I
was stuck in the United States and he was he
was based in London, and I just remember finding out.
It was almost like everything changed for him and changed

(45:42):
for us in like a night. It felt that way,
at least when we became aware. Yeah, no, no, but
it was watching your experience with your father was was
so beautiful because it was all the I was like,
people are going to watch this and they're going to
know what to do, and that is such a beautiful
thing to give people. It's such a gift to give

(46:03):
to people because I didn't know because I'd never been
through I've never seen anyone publicly go through it. So
when I watched it, and I can't wait for everyone
who's listening and watching right now to watch it too,
because it gave me a real resolve to be like, yeah,
this is going to help people. It's going to help
a lot of people. And I wanted to ask you
about that. Your your father obviously got diagnosed with Alzheimer's.
It's like, what was that like the day you found out?

(46:25):
Like what, how did or how did you eve noticed
it before the day you found out? Did you start
to notice things?

Speaker 1 (46:31):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny. I remember in the first season
of Limitless and Peter Attiya, Yeah, I did a bunch
of blood work and you know, looking at my genetics,
and the plan was on camera. He was going to
tell me about, you know, what I had a predisposition
to and what I had the vulnerability or what my
strengths were and so on, and he said, oh, I

(46:53):
don't want to do this on camera. I got to
talk to you about something. And I thought, oh god, what
is this?

Speaker 2 (46:56):
You know?

Speaker 1 (46:56):
And Darren Aronofsky called me. He said, Peter wants to
call you and and I got really nervous about what
he was going to tell me, and he said, you've
got two copies of the apoe four gene, which you
get a copy each from each parent. A two's not
so about. A three is a little worse. The fours
the worst one, and you've got two. And basically, I

(47:17):
think one percent of the population has two copies of
these genes, and it puts you in a high risk
category for Alzheimis. It's not a predeterministic gene. It's just
an indication that you have a great vulnerability to Alzheimer's.
He told me that, and I was like a moment
of sort of shock, a moment of what does mean?
And then about fifteen minutes later, I was like, ah,

(47:38):
something old people get whatever. I told my parents about it,
and I remember my dad saying, oh, look that don't
worry now, we'll figure it out. That's you know. And
I was like, yeah, I'm not concerned. It's just this
strange thing to be told. And he was likely, it's fine, mate,
you know plenty of time where you don't figure out
what you need to do to prevent it, and so on.
And I remember vividly that conversation of him sort of

(48:00):
telling me not to be concerned about it. And then
about two or three years later, my Mum's saying to me,
I think we've got to get Dad checked because there's
these signs and things I'm concerned about the obvious one's
memory and sort of slight mood changes and shifts and
forgetfulness and so on. So he went and got tested

(48:22):
and found out he had two copies of the Apeli four,
as did my mum, which so we got one one
percent of populations April four. What, I don't know what
the math is on finding each other. So then Buddy Fault, Me, Luke,
and Liam all have two cops of vapors. So this
sort of anomaly of of genetics and accommodations. And but

(48:47):
my I was immediately hit with the reality of what
that meant for him because I had just gone through way. Ah,
it's a long way down the track, don't worry, push
it aside. Then all of a sudden it was right
front of us, and it was incredibly confronting. But again

(49:07):
I think the we'll figure it out mentality was was
was still very prominent, and then as it began to
get worse, it became a real sort of shaking into
the moment and a real sort of shock to the system.
And oh wow, this sort of everything we thought was
solid and true and consistent was going to dramatically change

(49:29):
and shift. Yeah, and then and then we I remember
when I was looking at doing another episode for that series,
the discussion around when I do something around brain health
with my dad, and my first instinct was I just
spent a lot of the press too of the previous

(49:49):
show trying to tell people that I didn't have Alzheim's,
and you know, and I said, I don't want to
go through that, but I also don't want to exploit
or feel like him in any way, putting him in
an uncomfortable position, exploiting this kind of condition, And how
is it going to make him feel? And I spoke
to him about it, and he was like, oh, absolutely, yeah, no,
you know, maybe this will help shed some light on

(50:10):
the issue and people will benefit from it and we
might learn something along the way, and off we went
in that direction. But there was a huge amount of
grace and humility in his attitude to it. You know,
he says it in the documentary, but his biggest concern
was being a burden and that was heartbreaking to hear
and consider. And I had never even up until we

(50:34):
shot the documentary. I didn't know even how he felt
about it because I hadn't asked him. And I felt
the strange mix of sort of guilt while shooting as
well as concern for his condition, but guilt but hadn't
asked this prior. Now I'm doing it on camera, and

(50:54):
so it was this strange sort of orchestration of events.
But what came out of it, and it wasn't planned,
was this beautiful so connection that my dad and I
were able to have in this beautiful discussion that we
probably wouldn't have had otherwise. And someone who had just
seen it recently, he said, I'm about at the same
you know, I got diagnosed a few years ago. I'm

(51:16):
in the same space as your dad's in. And he said,
I wish my kids could see this documentary. I hope
they see it because there's so much stigma around it.
They don't know what to say. They don't even talk
to me about it. They don't ask me how I'm
feeling about it. They don't ask me am I afraid?
Am I concerned? What am I concerned about? They just
sort of talked to me about the footy, or they
talk to me about you know work and that was

(51:38):
a sort of a beautiful moment of realization. And I
was there with my dad and I said, this is
hopefully what you know this is going to do for people,
is it motivates people into reaching out and removing the
sort of awkwardness around the uncomfortable conversations and actually reaching
out to people and allowing each other to be vulnerable,

(51:59):
allowing each other to talk about their fears and their
concerns and help navigate it together as opposed to again
having blinkers on and sort of burying our heads in
the sand.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
It's such a big thing, and it's such a hard
thing that it's hard to be like, oh, when we've
had hard things happened in the family before we talk
about it. This is different to that. Even though everyone's
an adult now you know your family and everyone's grown up,
it's a difficult conversation to have. And it's have you
as a family always had open conversations and emotional conversations

(52:47):
and difficult conversations or has there not really been a
need to have one?

Speaker 1 (52:50):
And no, we have, but there hasn't been a need
as as I guess is as important as this one.
You know, it wasn't as personal like we we've obviously had,
you know, people die and situations occur and things that
we were all you know, confronting and and the you know,

(53:12):
human experience a tragedy, and and and so on, But
it wasn't as in front of us as this was.
And the interesting, the complex thing about I think dementia
and Alzheimer's is it's when the science first start to show,
they're very subtle, so you still sort of think, oh,

(53:34):
we can manage this, you know, and and then it
gets over time a little worse. And depending on the regression.
You know, some people that happens in six months and
they're the sort of vegetable CATACOONCTO states, whereas and there's
some people that's a that's a slower regression, and and
and so again there's there's an easy option to sort

(53:59):
of ignore all those subtle changes. And I think this
experience made it far more prominent for all of us
than we had to pay attention to it. And even
my mum had said, you know, my dad did the interviews.
She's like, I've never even heard him talk like that.
I didn't even know he felt that. I didn't know
he was his experiencing that and because he didn't want
to put that burden upon someone else. And so yeah,

(54:23):
I I guess I'm thankful for the opportunity to embark
on this sort of journey with him, and as far
as the documentary went, because it ignited something in I
think all of us in my family to be a
lot more proactive and a lot more present and a
lot more connected, because you know, we're watching sort of

(54:46):
memories disappear in front of us.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
The first time you're going through it. And same as
my experience before the pandemic, before he did pass away,
I would go back to see him. Yeah, and every
time I'd go back, I'd noticed, especially because I was
living in La So every time i'd go back, I'd
notice big changes then the people who were with him
every day. And it was like I'd go back maybe
every four months to see him or whatever it was,

(55:10):
and it's like the first time, he'd still remember my name,
but he'd forget that I was there after like ten
minutes and then say hello again. And then the next
time I'd go he'd remember my name, but then he'd
only he'd forget me every thirty seconds or whatever. It
was and then you know, you just I saw that
decline because I wasn't with him every day.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
How long we're be to him when he was, oh,
my god diagnosed?

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Maybe like I think I'd have to check the exact time,
but maybe like three to four years.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Wow, yeah, like three yeah, yeah, it's the same time
my dad was diagnosed. A friend of ours was diagnosed.
And my dad's actually in a remarkable position compared to
that friend of ours who can barely speak, and that glazed, vague,

(55:54):
local sort of confusion comes twenty four to seven. My
dad is the short term memory, you know, and it's
the older memories are still very strong and evident. He
can sit here and recognize people. But there's some repetition
now occurring more than there was. But you know, I'm
thankful that it hasn't happened as fast as a lot

(56:15):
of instances, you know. Yeah, yeah, it was about probably
four maybe even five years ago.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
You know, yeah, that's yeah. No, I'm happy to hear
that too.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
And it was.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
It's beautiful to watch you go back to your childhood
home like rebuilt, rebuilt, redesign, And when everyone watches it,
they'll know what I mean when I say that, but
just like, yeah, it's such a special thing to do,
Like I can't imagine what it felt like for him
and for you to even go back there as like, yeah,
it's finally grow an adult, because he was an adult
when he was there last.

Speaker 1 (56:43):
But you know, no, and it was the reminiscence therapy
is what was called about. You know that there's basically
stimulating old memories and the hippocampus and triggering memories that
held a great amount of larger emotional response. So whether
it be exhilarating, exciting, nerve wracking those intense memories to

(57:05):
stimulate those via looking at old photographs, talking to old
friends from the past, discussing things that happened in the past.
What we did was very elaborate, supercharged version of you know,
we had a film crew with us and a production
and they basically took the house that we grew up
in and stripped all the furniture out and somehow sourced

(57:28):
furniture and posters and DVD players and whatever you know
that we had as kids and set the house up
the way it was and we lived there and it
was beyond sort of comprehension that when I first walked in.
I was struggling to sort of articulate how I felt
about it because my brain didn't know what to do
with it. And it was remarkable sort of seeing my

(57:52):
dad sort of come to life in moments and it
triggered all of the other memories. And then my mum
going through the house and it triggering a different experience
for her, you know, as a reminder of the passage
of time and the memories she had then, but the
memories we may not have, you know, in a few
years time or that disappearing. But it was, yeah, a

(58:16):
pretty wild experience.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Yeah. Yeah, it just fully takes you back, and it's
I imagine that while you're doing this, because you're doing
the supercharge version, there's a sense of I wonder how
your thoughts on how making memories has changed, because we
say that as humans, like, oh, we should make let's
make memories. But I don't know if we really think
about it as profoundly as you do when you're faced

(58:41):
with not knowing how many more you can make and
how many of the part so is, how is your
thought process on, like make the idea of making memories
been impacted?

Speaker 1 (58:50):
I think my time that I spend with him now
is is is a lot simpler then I would have
thought would have attempted in the past. I thought there
had to be a bigger experience d to do something,
you know, incredibly memorable. And I've realized now that the

(59:12):
greatest moments of just sitting there, being with him and
seeing him have someone listen to him and see him,
have someone see him and pay attention, and watching him
through this, even this documentary, all of a sudden he
had agency in something again, you know, and not just
because of they're certainly having Alzheimers. The awareness around I'm

(59:36):
losing control and I can't sort of lead the pack
or be in charge of the space. I'm very much
a passenger or maybe a patient. But also that thing
that happens at a certain age. And I've watched my parents,
you know, the last kind of ten years, the transition
of well they've been the authority and now they're looking

(59:58):
to us. That does to the ego and all, and
it's it's it takes a great amount of grace and
humility to go. Oh, I now have to seek support
where I used to lead the way, and I don't
have the answers to that and now you know, my
kids may be the authority on a lot of these subjects.

(01:00:20):
You know, even though we thought we were well for
our egoic, youthful times, but that sort of transition and
so for him, that was really you know, I looked
at that making the documentary as a I thought I
was very thankful for watching him, and a lot of
the crew said this, Wow. As the days went on,
he really sort of took charge and felt like he

(01:00:41):
was in the driver's seat again. And I think that's
really important for people to remember us to still give
them some agency and still as much as there is
a lack of control, but I don't know, allowing them
to embody some authority and narrative on their life, as
opposed to like now you just have to sit in
this space and have your hand out and yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
You think you're helping, Bactually you're hurting.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah, it's like you and I try, And you know,
I asked my dad questions I know the answers to,
but just to I know he'll it feel like he
has hopefully doesn't hear this, because you will forget it anyway,
you know. I'll ask him things just to sort of

(01:01:26):
stimulate some again agency and authority and has his thinking.

Speaker 2 (01:01:30):
But yeah, I mean it must have been pretty amazing
to see him ride in like yeah even that, like yeah,
that's pretty impressive. When I saw that, I was like, wow,
that's yeah, that must feel great for him to get
because he used to be a Yeah. You know, it
just to me that that also must feel like some
agency for him to still be so active in this way, because.

Speaker 1 (01:01:47):
Yeah, And that's the thing I think I'm most scared
for for him, and I think probably he is, is
it will come a time when he won't be able
to do those things. And at the moment, you know,
I mean he saw races and historic races with old
Harley's and different bike and things, and you know, we'll
blit the pack and young bloats to rock up and
their bikes and instagraph and they'll go whoa who is
this guy? And he ends up on the podium a

(01:02:08):
lot of the times in the phrases he's an incredible
rider still. But I don't know at what point that
will occur. But that, for me, I brings me great concern,
you know, as it does for him as well, because
it will be the I think the most obvious representation
of the lack of agency and that you're taking a

(01:02:30):
real backseat to things. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Yeah, well, no, hearing you talk about it is just
genuinely so as hard as it is for you and
obviously for your family, and even just hearing you say
how hard it was to make a documentary about something
so personal, I definitely think that even hearing you talk
about it today, I'm like, this is helping people because
I feel like there's so many it's not talked about enough,

(01:02:54):
and there are so many families that go through it,
and like you said, it's so easy to pretend like
it's not happy or try and just tell that person
what actually happened, because that's what our logical brain doesn't.
What did you learn about your dad through this experience?
Only that you wish you'd learn sooner or understood earlier.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
My dad had. There's certainly has always been my hero.
You know. He's represented such nobility and integrity and compassion
and strength and a great, deep, profound sense of justice
and injustice and right and wrong, and it has been
very present and vocal about situations like that. You know,

(01:03:37):
he worked in child protection and taking care of the
most vulnerable of us and being children, you know, and
and that he big shoes to fill, you know. And
and but I think what I didn't realize watching this
documentary was that he had all the same fears and
concerns that I had or I have, And and he

(01:03:58):
isn't unshakable and unmovable, and he's human and watching him
be vulnerable and express concern and fear about things made
me love him on at an even deeper level. You know.
It's like, oh wow, the walls came down, you know.
And I don't think he was presenting those walls out

(01:04:20):
of avoidance, but there wasn't. He wasn't as not emotionally invailable,
but he wouldn't let you see that side of him
as much. And now there's this gentileist, sort of open,
vulnerable side which that I wasn't aware of as much
as before, you know, And I think that I'm very

(01:04:45):
thankful for that. You know, He's got beautiful sort of
watching his interviews which I wasn't present for, but the
master interviews that I watched after with that, oh my god,
I had no idea that those are the things he
was considering. But also the sense of humor he had
with it, and that the human and the sort of
self deprecating sort of nature that he had even in
discussing the most difficult things.

Speaker 2 (01:05:07):
You know, it must be really special that you have
all those tapes.

Speaker 1 (01:05:10):
Yeah, absolutely, I had I think you said this at
the start of our chat, but he had a friend
of mine say, because I was really concerned about doing this,
and even through it, and even after we'd finished, I
was talking to the director. I was like, oh, it's
just a good thing if I you know again, I
don't want to feel like this is exploiting any of this.

(01:05:30):
And he said, you know, I lost my father really
suddenly and never had a chance to at these conversations.
And the fact that you've been able to have this
experience and force these conversations out of one another. What
a gift. And then so many people who were at
the screening the premiere a few weeks ago said I

(01:05:52):
wish I had done this, or I am now I
am going to do this. I'm now going to reach
out to my parents or that loved one or friend
that I haven't said these things too, because it was
just a reminder of the fleeting nature and of all
of it, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:06:05):
Yeah, well that's that's what's amazing about it that it
doesn't have to be Also, it's like, you know, yeah,
it's just about having time and space to reconnect and
see your parents for who they are and who they
didn't show you because they were protecting you, and yeah,
who they didn't want to or they weren't ready to.
And and it's hard because we all have everyone has
different relationships with their parents and everything. But there's there's

(01:06:27):
something beautiful about being able to just sit there and
see them and them being at them allowing you.

Speaker 1 (01:06:32):
Because even like making the documentary was like, on one hand,
I sort of we're you know, we were abut to
sort of understand Alzheimer's or dementia and and find the fixed,
find the silver bullet, you know, look into reminiscence therapy,
looking at different medications, looking at for different modalities and
approaches on how to handle it. And then by the

(01:06:52):
end of it it was exactly that it was like, oh, wow,
this is about connection. This is universal to all of
our experience. This isn't just about our semus. This is
about supporting one another and being there for one another
and being part of a family in a community and
that india connected nature of all of it as opposed
to one lane with dementia, Alzheimer's cognitive health. It was

(01:07:13):
about it was about love and support and connection, and
that for me was the biggest takeaway I think, you know,
or as equally as sort of beneficial of the connection
with my dad was about what it meant universally to
all of my relationships.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
What did you learn about yourself that you weren't aware
of it, that you hadn't come across before.

Speaker 1 (01:07:32):
And I felt just said I was doing something right.
I think, I know that sounds kind of strange, but
I had so much doubt and criticism and concern about it.
And then I was sitting at the premiere and my
dad kept like holding my hand and never done that,
you know, he was both emotional and laughing, and I thought,

(01:07:54):
oh wow, this is like, out of all the things
I've done and things I've put on screen and the
things I've made, this feels profoundly important and deeply personal,
but special and unique to probably anything I'll ever do again.
And I don't know a little bit of what we're

(01:08:18):
saying before, but I don't walk around thinking I've sort
of I am the thing. I guess I try and
present of having figured it out and having this sort
of you know, being entirely in control of things. I
have more doubt than you know, well as much doubt
as anyone, or more doubt than anyone. I don't know,
but I have a lot of inner criticism and so on,

(01:08:41):
and this, I don't know. I felt a real lift
in that, and I felt like there was plenty that
there are plenty more opportunities or should be to do
things that have a deeper message and can resonate on
a larger scale, and they can mean something. It doesn't

(01:09:03):
just have to be purely entertainment. It doesn't just have
to be it can have a deeper message, you know.
And I don't know, I cut myself some slack. I
guess I sort of sense of sort of pride that
I hadn't felt before.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
Yeah, I love you, and that I'm glad you're finally giving.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
Yourself And I'm not saying I'm kind of, you know,
disapproving of ely I've done. And but I don't know,
it resonated on a different level to me.

Speaker 2 (01:09:31):
Yeah, I think that's real. I think it's real. I
think I think that's they just feed different things right
in the same ways that you can make something purely
entertaining that makes people have the best time and laugh
and whatever it is making something that personal, Yeah, there's
there's nothing like it. Like I'm sure it was almost
more gratifying watching your dad watch himself and it was

(01:09:53):
ever seeing any of your movies, because that's how we're designed.
Like I feel like we're like we're wired for generous
he is, humans were wired for that connection. So it's
it's you know, when you were seeing that person that
you love, what's themselves. Yeah, it's way better than seeing
yourself on the screen.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
Visually next to me. And I spent as much time
looking to him to sit as I did at the screen.
And at the end of the film, something you said
to me. On my first ever film, I spent a
small part in Star Trek and he flew in for
the premiere in La with a moment and the end
of the film, he grabbed me, kissed me on the
top of the headingers you were the best in your row,

(01:10:31):
And every single film I've done, he's like, you were
the best in your row. You know, you were the
best in your class type thing. And it's this like
his way of saying, you know, and then he would
go on and give the greater sort of summary of
it all. But then I leant over to him and
I said, you're the best in your row, and he goes, yeah,
not as bad as I thought it was going to be.

(01:10:51):
This again, is a wicked sense of humor about it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:54):
Yeah, no, he comes across. I mean, obviously I've never
met your dad, but he comes across like so lovable,
so charming, so endearing, like just you know, just just
a great dad. Like he definitely like.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
You know, you should know the human.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Yeah yeah, yeah, exactly exactly, a good good like good people,
good good human. And there's that beautiful picture that almost
the whole documentary is kind of centered of, you know,
you and your dad. And I was wondering if you,
if you would go back to that younger self in
that picture, what would you say to that younger self.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
I don't know it would be. I'd be cautious to
say anything, because it's all it's worked out pretty well,
you know, the slightly older version of that kid. I'd
say it's going to be okay. In those sort of
worry some nights that I would kind of spin my
wheels on one subject or another and be full of

(01:11:51):
concern and anxiety and regret and guilt and this kind
of strange concoction of emotions. I don't know why, but uh,
I would like to appease and remove some of that
if I could to my younger self by saying, don't worry,
just trust in the in the process and go with
the flow a little more, you know. But then again,

(01:12:11):
as I said, I wouldn't change anything, so I want
to see myself off the path.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
Yeah, it's like almost if you went back and did that,
then you wouldn't be doing what you're doing today.

Speaker 1 (01:12:22):
I want the same outcome, but I want it to
be less challenging.

Speaker 2 (01:12:26):
Isn't that all of us? That's so funny that that's
literally it was like that's that would that is everyone's
desire in life. It's almost like never the case. It's
all even this, even you making this documentary was it
was uncomfortable and now you're sitting back reflecting, going, I'm
really proud of it. It made me feel good, you know,
sitting with my dad, like, but it was an uncomfortable

(01:12:47):
journey of do I make it? Do I not is it?
How's it going to look? And so it's such a
the discomfort to joy. It's so real for all humans.

Speaker 1 (01:12:57):
And I don't matter how many times you tell yourself
the city is what builds the strength, whether it's in
the gym or whether it's emotional experiences. It's like, you'll
be better for this afterwards. Always yeah, each time like ah,
why why me? Why again? Why is just happening? How
can I avoid this? How can I you know? And
it's like it's a it's a I don't know whether

(01:13:17):
you ever arrive at a place where you're just completely
on board with the suffering the challenges of the university.
And you're like, but then if you did, then it
wouldn't be suffering. So then you're not learning anything.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Like then you're not working out, Then you're not then
you're not actually going through it.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Okay with this, it's because it's not hurting enough. Yeah,
give me an extra ten reps. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
It's like when you've been in the cold plants for
seven minutes and now it's not You've just Normalisa, it
doesn't matter anymore, just in there for the ego booster.

Speaker 1 (01:13:45):
Now it's not doing anything you need to do it eight.

Speaker 2 (01:13:48):
It's like, Yeah, what do you think that younger self
in that picture, or even a bit older would say
back to you.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
I think it'd be they'd be like, we're going where
you don't have the And I think that often about
if my younger self knew what was install or what
was coming, they would be you were gonna play superhero
play dress ups and we travel the world and and
being this crazy, crazy adventure with our friends. And I

(01:14:17):
think I think they'd be I think they'd be grateful.
I think they'd be excited. I think they'd make sure
I was enjoying it, you know, and not being caught
up in the next one or the over calculation of
it all. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
Yeah, it's almost like that. It's almost like living life
from that perspective is the only yeah worthy one because
from that lens, you look at it and you go,
I'm grateful and happy and joyful. Yeah, And there's some
power in just looking back at your life from that
younger self.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
For sure. Yeah, And they'd look up and go, you're
doing a good job. You know.

Speaker 2 (01:14:57):
They wouldn't have the criticism.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
Yeah, it's like were you You're trying to better the
situation for that younger version of yourself or the dream
you had then, or this sort of the thing you
you know, that the sort of the prior imagining of
it all, you know. And yeah, and I've thought about

(01:15:20):
that before, Like the younger self would be wildly impressed
by it, you know, so so should you. Yeah. But
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:33):
That's the funny part, right that that that younger self
that's still inside of us, is the part of us
that doesn't have the criticism and the judgment and the
harsh words, and just as like this childlike excitement and
thrill and enthusiasm, and it's still there inside all of us.
It's just you don't you almost don't let it breathe
because you kind of treat it as like not as

(01:15:53):
smarter or not as intelligent, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
I mean that's and that is what I I chase
all the time in a performance setting is like how
would the what would my mindset be as a child
in this in this situation, and what would I how
vivid would my imagination be? How you know, let it
run wild? And every now and then I get a

(01:16:17):
hold of that or I find myself in that state
and it's completely unencumbered with the thought and the criticism,
and you're like flying, You're in the moment, you know.
And and I had Downey, Robert Downey to say this
to me once in the scene where I sort of
improvised something and something happened and he comes up to me,
how to feel I said, cool, that was really good,
and he goes, happens like a couple of times in

(01:16:38):
the career and goes grab a hold of it, remember it,
And I was like, yeah, but what it was was
that and the non judgmental, childlike version of myself, you know.
And I think to take that into all aspects of life,
not just when I was in front of the camera,
has been really important and has been a real lesson,
is to be more adventurous, inquisitive and curious and not

(01:17:02):
so much for outcome, base focused, you know, just be
sort of moment to moment and allowing that sort of
the cheekiness of children, and they're sort of the slight rebellious,
sort of you know, less concerned with the rules version
of ourselves come out. Yeah, but like you said, but
then it's uh, you know, that's that's it's inconsistent with
how the adult version should behave and that's irresponsible and

(01:17:25):
so on. It's like it doesn't matter. I don't know
anyone getting hurt now, yeah, we'll carry on. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
I think there's a big difference between being child like
in childish.

Speaker 1 (01:17:36):
Yeah, that's yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
And we don't often know the difference, yea. And so
we pressure down or suppress our childlike self, yeah, because
we we're scared we might get childish. And it's the
intelligent self sees the childish partners are whatever. Yeah, but
it's the childlike self that we know exists and has
that power. There's this when I'm doing workshops, I have
this thing called the thirty circles test. It's basically an

(01:17:58):
a four piece of paper with thirty on it. And
I'll do this with executives across the world and big
companies and all the rest of it. And I'll say
you've got thirty seconds to uniquely complete thirty circles. That's
the only instruction they get. And they all have a pencil,
so everyone starts scribbling. There's a timer, and then the
time starts going down, and then I go five, four, three, two,
one times up. Some of them keep scribbling, like you know,

(01:18:19):
trying to get some more time in. And then they
stop and I ask them what they've done, and the
top five answers are always someone wrote the numbers one
to thirty in every circle. The second answer is people
wrote eight to z and then ABCD, and then people
do squiggles, people do emojis and little smiley faces, sad faces,
football's pizzas, all that kind of stuff, and that's pretty

(01:18:41):
much it. And these are like the smartest executives, cmo
CEOs whatever of all the big you know, Fortune five
hundred companies and all the rest of it. And then
I've done the same thing with kids, and with ten
year olds usually, and I learned this from the person
who built the thirty circles test. And the kids just
come up these amazing things. So this one boy, he

(01:19:03):
put a line around it, put a little sign on top,
and then put lines on the circles. And when I
asked him what it was, he said it was a
bag of tennis balls, and because he plays tennis. And
then there was this other girl who she did all
this intricate line work, like straight lines on each piece
and different things, and then when I asked her what
it was, she said it was a bird's eye view
of a chessboard and because she she loves flaying chess.

(01:19:26):
And then my favorite one. I always remember this one.
There's this little girl who did intricate circles and curves
and all this kind of stuff, and asked her what
it was. She held the paper like this, she goes
this bubble wrap and it was just like this really
like childlike, you know, and you never get an adult
doing any of them, because we just hear thirty circles,
thirty seconds, get the job done and get you get
these kids who just have this little bit of freedom

(01:19:48):
still where they haven't got trained to shut that out.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
But I haven't, you know, deeply embedded our neural pathways
around ideas and expectations and you know, the assumption around
the right and the wrong. It's you know, the mind
that is wide open at that point. And yeah, I
think we all can do the heavy dose of getting

(01:20:13):
back to the time of our life.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
You've been married for fifteen years now something like that, Yeah,
fifteen years, and you've got three wonderful children, you know,
and how old is the oldest?

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
Know, my daughter's thirteen, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:31):
So she stands in Yeah, what would you say your
kids have taught you that you didn't anticipate their word.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
I'd like to say they taught me patients. They're attempting
to teach you patients, because I don't know that I'm
figured it out. I mean, you talk about the ways
you kind of you know, it can be in control
and being authority in spaces and have it all figured out,
and then that door opens and it's just chaos, and
it's like I'm failing every single component of this. The again,

(01:21:04):
the importance of time, you know, and and the things
that I thought we're going to bring great joy and
the things that I was going to provide and give
comfort security. It's far simpler than that. It's attention, you know.
They want your presence, they want your space, they want
your focus, and and we overcomplicate it so often with

(01:21:30):
the attempts are sort of more extravagant experiences and things,
and yet they just want your time, you know. And
that for me has been terrifying at times realizing how
quick it's gone, you know, and I think I'll get
to that, and then a year goes by and I've

(01:21:50):
done a couple of films or whatever and gone, oh wow,
what which part of their you know, brief childhood have
I have I missed? And so they've taught me a
greater awareness around the importance of this moment because their
personalities change every second and every day and every week
and every month, and you kind of you're mourning a

(01:22:13):
version of that child every month because they're gone. You know,
you look at the sort of the three year old
and you think, oh wow, this is it and can't
wait till they're out an appiers and doing this. And
then all of a sudden they're four and five and
they're adding appiers and you've put the stroller away. You're like,
oh god, I wish I had that version back. And
then so you're constantly saying goodbye to little versions of

(01:22:33):
these people. And so just pay attention, just be here,
be present, and they don't care about the things they
are the sort of larger achievements and you know, an
award or a big film or this and that and
the other. You know, if they do momentarily oh it's cool, whatever, gone.
They just want you there. And that's comforting, I find,

(01:22:54):
you know, because the pressure you put on yourself about
those those you know, more superficial sort of pmplishments and
things are important on one hand, but not as important
as just being there.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
Yeah, what's been there? What's been the key to fifteen
years together.

Speaker 1 (01:23:13):
Having fun? I think, you know, both having a sort
of bit adventurous spirit, making time for one another. I
think the complicated times have been when it's been all work,
all kids, and all of a sudden, the us in
the relationship is what is sort of the non existent.
You know, you're you're you're just kind of managing a

(01:23:35):
household or the work family schedule, and else will be
off on work, and then I'll be off and work,
and then it's chaos at kids and the kid kid time,
and and so sort of removing ourselves from all of
that and just having time for the two of us
and making space for each other rather than the rest
of the world that can be so all consuming.

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
You know, that must be so hard though, right with
your schedule.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
Yeah, it is, it is, it's it's I think it's
just hard to sort of for anyone really, you know,
it's all relative and you know we yeah, it's challenging,
but we also have opportunity to make it work. We
have no excuse as far as like how how much
time we can make for each other during the support

(01:24:20):
we can get and to do our situation. So yeah,
just making each other laugh, you know, just kind of
because there's so that there's so much over sort of
focus on these kind of the importance and the intense
sort of things and the big decisions. And then it's
the same with the kids. It's like the stuff that

(01:24:41):
really resonates and when you really get along and you
really kind of feel like you're just here in this
space is when there's there's humor involved adventure, and there's curiosity,
when there's openness to kind of make a fool of
yourself and self deprecation. All that I think is that's

(01:25:02):
what you can hold. You know, there's always that spark
and that attraction, but what it comes down to is
his friendship companionship at the end and the moment you're
run out of things to talk about and you lack
that curiosity and interesting one another is you know, that's
what it's concerning, and that's it. You know, you've got
to you keep digging, you know, sort of again coming

(01:25:24):
to some arrival or or insisting on a sort of
finer conclusion to it is there's a finish line then,
you know, and to understanding you don't entirely ever know
each other, and you'll continue to try and figure it out.
And as you're trying to figure as you're trying to
greater have a greater understanding of yourself as well in
that experience, I think is important to keep it the

(01:25:46):
front of your thinking. You know, it allows you to
forgive each other, It allows you to be more compassionate
with each other, allows you to have greater understandings for
both of your shortcomings and the things we might you
know that the less versions of ourselves we might think of. Yeah,
I think it's that that you know has kept us

(01:26:09):
in check. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:10):
I love the part of you saying when you still
don't know each other, like you still get in to
it like that's that's I think, such a beautiful thing
if like you're you still believe there's more to know
about this person that you see every day and live with,
and you still believe, no, there's more to know. I
don't know them fully, and that keeps it fresh and

(01:26:30):
new and exciting because there's an acceptance whereas as soon
as you think, oh, I know them and I know
their habits and I can kind of predict everything they do,
and there is a part of that and that's a
helpful thing, like oh, I know when they're tired, and
I know when they need space, and I know when
they're hungry or hungry or whatever it may be. And
that's helpful, of course it is. But then it's also
the acceptance of I actually don't know them because they're

(01:26:52):
changing and they're growing, and I haven't seen the mother
version or the mother of three or the mother you know,
there's there's all these iterations that we almost think, well,
no people stay the same.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Yeah, yeah, And it is, and it's having a sort
of allowance for that and a bit of compassion around
you know, do we ever even know ourselves entirely? You know,
how could we ever entirely know somebody else? But you
have to keep reminding yourself to be curious and to
sort of embody the humility to go, oh, I don't

(01:27:26):
entirely understand I know that, but that's okay. I don't
have to. I don't have to, you know, I don't
have to entirely. You know, the sort of a pattern
recognition and you have your expectations and someone but having
a little more openness to and and curiosity enthusiasm to

(01:27:47):
understand what is it that makes you tick today versus
tomorrow versus yesterday, you know, as opposed to thinking I
know all of your tricks, you know all am I.
It takes away the sort of presumption I guess we
have around each other, which is, you know, it is
often cause for complication. I think you know, I know

(01:28:09):
why you did that. I don't know why you're going
to do this, and I don't know. It's just like
then comes to eye roll in the contempt and then
then you're down a dangerous You know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:18):
If else was here sitting right next to me right now,
what would she tell me about you that would surprise me?

Speaker 1 (01:28:26):
You don't know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
You'd have to ask.

Speaker 1 (01:28:30):
To ask, have interviews. I'm like, why did you tell
them that that's not.

Speaker 2 (01:28:37):
That's the best react to it?

Speaker 1 (01:28:41):
Yeah, good ways and then ways, I'm like, it's not
true when you do, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Have you had the conversation with your kids about their
granddad's also, have you yeah, walked me through that part?
How do you explain it? How does that conversation?

Speaker 1 (01:29:15):
Yeah, it's it's been really interesting because I they're they're
the biggest kind of lessons of the most sort of
profound sort of shifts in our sort of our growth,
I think as individuals is around confronting moments, and I
was it was very important for me to have them

(01:29:37):
understand what was happening and articulate what this meant and
also what it meant for me, you know, rather than
I guess protect or you know, avoid that situation for
them or that discomfort. I was kind of it was
very important, and so when I would talk to them
about it, Initially they'd be like, Okay, what does that mean.
Ye he's going to forget his memories? Okay, And then

(01:29:58):
they'd go and see him and they got Dad's yes,
and then they would kind of go He asked me
this three times, and I said, well, this is what
it is, and now you might have to look after
me one day, and this is what we do that
this is family, and this is the importance of you know,
this connection and the support we have for one another
and having compassion for vulnerable challenging times. And and they've

(01:30:19):
been great with it, you know, they have they have
big hearts. My kids. I'm so thankful for that, you know,
and there is an abundance of sort of compassion there
and they're like, okay, cool, what do you need from us?
You know? Yeah, cool an ul rally and go around
and you know, ah dad questions and things and talk
about old memories and things I've talked about with them

(01:30:39):
and yeah, and then they'll also be little maniacs not
care about any of it on other occasions. But for
the most part, they've they've been really good. And my son,
one of my boys, actually at the screening was really
emotional and it really kind of was really surprised, and

(01:31:00):
then he was like in the car and the way home,
like got really upset. He said, I just I just
love Craigie so much. And I said, well, you're still here,
you know, make sure you tell him. And he said,
I am. I want to go around there more, and
I want to have more barbecues and ride motorbikes with him.
And it was this great kind of I think, sort
of awakening for him. You know, it was real, but

(01:31:20):
until he saw that the documentary, it wasn't as real.
And his brother, who isn't probably as articulate with his
sort of emotions, was it was still affecting him, you know,
and both were like, and he was sort of agreeing, Yep, yep,
let's go and be with him more and let's you know,
let's make the most of this opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:31:40):
So, yeah, that must have been amazing scene.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
Their reaction to it, well, yeah, it was. It was,
and it was I wasn't even focusing on it, you know.
It was I was to write there with my dad,
and at the end of it, they were there and
in the car and the way home talking and I thought,
oh wow, I was sort of just focused on this moment.
But now this is the next generation coming in that

(01:32:02):
sort of the transference from one of the other and
the experience of my dad's had had and passed me,
and now I passed my kids.

Speaker 2 (01:32:09):
And yeah, it's also the power of just media and
storytelling in a way that if we could all personalize
in a world where you're not a movie star and
you're not making a documentary. And it's almost like I
went to two friends' seventieth birthday parties this year and

(01:32:31):
I've not known them. I've known them both separately, two
two different people, and I've probably known them both for
maybe the last ten years.

Speaker 1 (01:32:39):
If that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:40):
So, I've not known them for like sixty years of
their life. I've got to know them in the last ten.
And these birthday parties were filled with people they've known
for nearly seventy years. And it was old friends and
of course their kids and grandkids and families, and you know,
they weren't huge parties, but they were big in that
there were lots of very close people there, teachers and

(01:33:03):
you know, business partners and just just everyone. And it
was so beautiful, like it was such a special thing
to attend as someone who's not seventy years old and go, wow,
like what an incredible life these two people have lived.
How amazing it is to see them celebrate it, and
how and they're not movie stars, and how amazing it

(01:33:23):
is for their families to have made media about them.
So whether it's like a little homemade video of their
highlight reel for seventy years, or whether it's messages from
over the years. And I was just like the power
and it's like I've only known them for the last
ten years, but I'm like weeping at these videos and
i haven't even been there for that long, like compared
to everyone else in the room, but there's a power

(01:33:43):
to that and how connected we feel when you see
someone's story being told, and it makes you wonder how
much more we can all do that for our families
and the people we love, even if it's not on
a big you know, you're not going to a premiere
or anything like that. But how much of a need
there is for celebrating people milestone, yeah, for sure, and
kind of taking a moment to create storytelling around them

(01:34:06):
so other people can appreciate them better.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
Yeah, it is. It's I think the most important thing
to see one another and to be seen and to
recognize and other others the beauty and what they have represented,
what they have given you. We don't often, you know,
I mean at the milestones and parties and the birthdays

(01:34:29):
and someone we might you know, offer that up, but
I don't think we do it enough, you know, And
it's it's incredibly important because you you know, without that
recognition from someone else, we don't really know kind of
our effect on the world. We don't really you know.
We can assume and think this or that, but for

(01:34:49):
the most part it's a sort of imagined experience, you know,
and the actuality of the reality of it when someone
else taps you on the shoulder and says, hey, this
is incredibly important what you've done, and this is incredibly memorable.
And they had this amazing, profound effect to me, what
you said this one time? We don't I don't think
we're as comfortable saying it, or we don't sort of

(01:35:10):
do it as often as we should.

Speaker 2 (01:35:11):
Yeah, yeah, and then yeah, it's a good This was
definitely a good reminder of that. Yeah, for sure to
see it and for everyone to recognize that you can
do your own version of it. I think that's kind
of what I was the whole time I was watching it.
I was just like, Yeah, I wish I did that
with my mentor, and I wish we got the other
two and in a good way, not in a not
in a painful way, in an excitement everyone else who
and you know, doing it with my mom. I remember

(01:35:32):
a few years ago I interviewed my mom, not on
the podcast, but just over dinner. And it was my
sister's thirtieth birthday. We'd gone away together as me, my mom,
and my younger sister, and we just I just interviewed
my mom over dinner. It was one of my favorite
things I've ever done, because I learned so much about
her that she'd never told me she's seventy hour she
was at that point, and it just it was so

(01:35:54):
special just to ask us some questions that she would
never tell me the story about, or she wouldn't she
never makes her life sound exciting or different or special,
and then you get into and you go, your life
is all of those things, And yeah, just you know,
what a beautiful thing to give people the right vocabulary.
I wonder with with everything you've been saying, what, what's

(01:36:14):
something that you want to get better as as a man?

Speaker 1 (01:36:18):
I want to slow down a bit, you know. I
feel like that I have been sort of chasing something
for so long and achieving something and arriving at a
point and then quickly replacing it with something else. And
it's afforded me an incredible life, and I've to some

(01:36:41):
wonderful things, but it's I would love to take pause
and take stock in kind of this moment more, you know.
And and it's not to say I don't want to
keep working and do a trieting things, but I want
to be less kind of focused on the outcome of it,

(01:37:04):
you know, and just be there for the experience and
be there for the joy and the thrill and the
adventure and have a greater curiosity around it without being
consumed with the what if it goes wrong portion of things,
you know. But it's a strange thing because, as we've
discussed a few times, you know, well can you have

(01:37:25):
one without the other? But I, you know, I have.
This has made me slow down a lot, you know,
with my dad recently. And I'm looking next year and
I have films to do, but I've turned down a
lot of things just so I can be here with
him more and because I know I'm not going to
get ten years down the track and going glad I

(01:37:45):
did those extra three or four films. I'm going to say,
I wish I spent more time with him, and with
my mum, you know, and with my brothers and my wife,
my kids and family and friends. And because it's you know,
he wake up and years as come by, and it's
like it's been fun, but a lot of it it
feels like a sort of a blurred polaroid photograph, and

(01:38:08):
I'm like, God, I just kind of remember that, you know.
But I was sort of all consuming and so busy
and such intensity and such high emotions and and such
got a big risk, big reward payoffs, big big loss,
you know, and that's fun, and there's this sort of
excitement to that, but I found, I find sometimes there's

(01:38:32):
just pure exhaustion as well, and I just would like
to kind of reset a bit and recharge and have
a greater amount of sort of stillness and not want
so much from a situation, just kind of just be here.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
Yeah, is that way? Coming back here was so important
instead of being in La as well?

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. And it was right when I had kids.
We were in LA and we had a big, beautiful
house there, but it just didn't feel like and it
was chaotic and every time I leave the house or
was reminded of work and reminded of what I was
doing or what I wasn't doing, and and and that
was documented by paparazzi and then plastered across sort of

(01:39:11):
various huge outlets and so on, and it didn't it
wasn't fulfilling on a sort of a personal soul level,
you know. It didn't feel nourishing at all. And we
came back here just for just for a holiday, but
in a sort of a subtle attempt from me to
sort of, you know, convince my wife to move here,
and it was it wasn't it wasn't a hard and

(01:39:36):
it wasn't a hard sell at all. She was instantly like,
this will do. This is pretty special.

Speaker 2 (01:39:40):
Yeah. Is your dad's transition most hardest on your mom?

Speaker 1 (01:39:43):
Do you see? For sure? Yeah, that's the one that
I has become really complicated because it's sort of, well,
what's scary is she has the same two copies the
hypoly for I think it is a high probability of

(01:40:06):
women getting it as supposed to men, so she's in
an even higher risk category. And the stress and the
concern that she carries is incredibly dangerous, you know, and
detrimental to her health. And so my brothers and I

(01:40:27):
big attempt to sort of offload that as much as
we can, and also watching you know, you don't want
to be in a sort of romantic loving relationship and
then one have to be a care I'm gone to
have to be a patient.

Speaker 2 (01:40:43):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:40:43):
It's such a tragedy and I think at times that's
where that's where the roles have been assigned, and these
good days and bad days, But I think not being
able to do the things that they used to do
and not having the same connect in the same conversations
that they used to have, and that there's a beautiful

(01:41:05):
connection and love there, but there isn't the same depth
to some of the conversations and the interactions they have
now there isn't the same support. And you know, obviously
no one's fault, just the sort of an inability and
an incapacity to be there and provide that now because
the memory isn't as you know, strong as it was,

(01:41:28):
and it's the short term things are rapidly sort of declining.
So yeah, we're sort of trying to implement a lot
of things currently for her health and for his but
also trying to allow there to be some autonomy in
my mum's life as well and a bit of agency

(01:41:48):
in her space so she doesn't have to feel like
she is no the care.

Speaker 2 (01:41:53):
Yeah, it's such a stranger and isn't it. It's like
you're caring for the person who's actually on well yeah,
and caring for the person who's caring for the person
who's own well.

Speaker 1 (01:42:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:01):
He's often gets forgotten sometimes.

Speaker 1 (01:42:03):
Peter Ta said it to me when my dad was
first diagnosed. He said, how's your mom? I said, oh, yes,
she's fine. She's the one i'd be concerned about, you know,
because your dad. You know, we can slow the regression
of Alzheimer's sometimes we're yet to sort of reverse it,
you know, but once it starts, that's the path you're on.

(01:42:24):
He said, your mom isn't there yet, isn't isn't you know,
it doesn't have a sort of cognitive decline. But he goes,
but this is the environment where it will it will
promote or that is the stress and the sleepless nights,
the increase in cortsole and that anxiety and concern. He said,
all of those are like, that's the environment for her

(01:42:45):
and now sort of be forced down that path. So
he said, we've got to pay attention there. And that
was a beautiful reminder from him, and he said it
a number of times him in contact with him a
lot and says, how's your mom doing? How's your mum doing? Yeah,
she's definitely a big focus.

Speaker 2 (01:43:00):
Yeah, I love that. Chris has been such a joy
talking to you. Thank you you too, truly just just
it's beautiful feeling let into someone's life and heart in
this way. Because it just, you know, puts so much
into perspective for all of us to hear you kind
of be so vulnerable and so open. It can't be easy.
And of course seeing the documentary, you just see how

(01:43:21):
much you're letting everyone in. And we end every episode
with the final five. These questions have to be answered
in one sentence maximum. Often we go off piece because
I get enthusiastic and excited, but Chris hems with these
are your final five. We ask these to everyone on
the show, or at least a few of these. So
question number one, Chris, what's the best advice You've ever received?

Speaker 1 (01:43:44):
Best advice I've received? I remember being asked this when
I was doing Home and Away, this sop from many
years ago, and my answer was be kind. And I
remember the journalist at the time mocking me and saying, oh,
it's like something you read on It's Teddy Bear or whatever.
But that advice that was given to me my my

(01:44:05):
mum is just be kind to people, be compassionate. Has
stayed true and been my north star through everything I've
ever done, and in its simplicity is there's some profound
wisdom to it, you know, be kind to yourself, be
kind to others. It's about, as you know, if we
embody just that one thing, I think we'll do Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:44:28):
I love that. Second question, what is the worst advice
you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:44:33):
I don't know. Just be what I was afraid of
and what makes me nervous? This I love that, all
those tricks I was trying to there's a good anxiety Christian.

Speaker 2 (01:44:46):
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:44:48):
The worst advice I've had many occasions, just one more drink,
one more beer.

Speaker 2 (01:44:53):
It doesn't work out.

Speaker 1 (01:44:54):
It doesn't work out, soways. The worst idea, the one
more There was always the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
It leads to overweight thought.

Speaker 1 (01:45:01):
It leads overweight thought, It leads the confused thought, skipful
for catastrophic thought.

Speaker 2 (01:45:08):
I love it. Question number three, what do you believe
makes a good dad?

Speaker 1 (01:45:18):
Someone who it truly embodies the things they're trying to
bestow upon you. You know, someone who truly represents those
virtues that they're trying to teach you, rather than you're
talking about it. Their behavior represents that, and that's been

(01:45:40):
has been my dad. You know, his actions spoke a
lot louder than his words, and he didn't necessarily speak
in sort of poetic one liners that were memorable. It
was his the way he walked into a room, and
the way he treated people, the way he behaved and
held himself and took care of people as compassionate that

(01:46:00):
and he was true to his word and honest and
still is and holds a beautiful amount of integrity and love.
And yeah, someone who models their behavior honestly.

Speaker 2 (01:46:14):
Question Numberfore, what do you believe makes a good son.

Speaker 1 (01:46:18):
Being in not just a state of receivership but also
giving back, you know? And I remember when my dad's
father passed away. I was in LA and he called
me and I said, oh, sorry about your dad, And
I remember him getting choked up, and on the other
end of the call kind of thinking, oh, wow, he's crying.

(01:46:41):
I hadn't really seen him cry, I don't think ever,
and very I was sort of listening and okay, how
are you right? And then he started talking again and
we changed the subjects and we went and afterwards, maybe
a year later, I thought, God, I wasn't there for him,
And then as time went on, realizing how important it

(01:47:01):
was for me also to show give recognition and how
important he was rather than just him taking care of
me realizing I had a part to play. And so
what makes a good son is also the recognition that
you have a position and a place to hold in
this relationship and it isn't just to be taken care of,

(01:47:21):
it also to to share that responsibility and take care
of one another. It's a convoluted answer.

Speaker 2 (01:47:28):
Yeah, that's beautiful, beautiful. I feel like we're living at
a time where roles are so hard to understand and undefined.
It it's so beautiful to just have like a north
star of like as simple as it is to have like, yeah,
your dad's a good dad, someone is true to his
words and lives by example. That's a beautiful, simple thing
that we can all try to aspire to live towards,
as opposed to, you know, complex ideas.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
I remember have a friend of mine's dad who who
was very well read, and you know, we quote various
philosophy and psychologists and things, and it was like, oh, wow,
that's a really interesting that's a great thing, and I
would take them, but he didn't embody any of it.

(01:48:13):
You know, as the years went on, I was like, oh,
that's it's all talk, you know, it's not action, and
just yeah, right, So what I was saying before. It's
you know, it's one thing to sort of be able
to spout off wisdom and quotes and so on, but
it's like, do you truly when push comes to shove,
is that what you're representing or not? I'm trying to

(01:48:35):
avoid the next question.

Speaker 2 (01:48:38):
We're on question Oh, we did question for We're on
question five.

Speaker 1 (01:48:40):
This is it.

Speaker 2 (01:48:41):
This is the one that I told you about right
at the top of the show, that you've been thinking
about the whole time. So, Chris, the fifth question that
we asked every guest who's ever been on the show.
And by the way, everyone knows this question, and no
one ever prefess for it, So don't want fifth and
final question. If you could create one law that everyone
in the world had to follow, what would it be.

Speaker 1 (01:48:59):
To have a a three day work week or four
day maybe to work less? You know, and I think
we would have We think we would work harder and
more efficiently when we do, and their entire life wouldn't
be around productivity and work work, work, work work. It
would be about hopefully more enjoyable experiences, you know, Yeah,

(01:49:24):
I mean, And the weekends are the weekends and beautiful
and needed and wanted and waited for with such anticipation
because we've worked, Yes, but I think a day or
two less week universally beneficial.

Speaker 2 (01:49:38):
I have no idea how humans signed up to a
five day work week. Can you imagine when that got instated,
how everyone just goes, yeah, we're going to I don't
know how we did it, Like I don't know how
we ever agreed going, yeah, we're all going to work
five days a week and in some cases six in
some places across the world, like six seven days people
are working and maybe church on Sundays.

Speaker 1 (01:49:57):
Mental fatigue and the physical fatigue, and now it's phones
and all the otherwise we were sort.

Speaker 2 (01:50:01):
Of you know, now it's twenty four hours, right, there
is no.

Speaker 1 (01:50:04):
There is no switching off down brutal.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good look.

Speaker 1 (01:50:09):
I hope you get rid of phones.

Speaker 2 (01:50:10):
Maybe one day when you're when you're Prime minister, or
you stay before they work with Australia. Then you can
figure out.

Speaker 1 (01:50:19):
You know, how it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:50:20):
Yeah, yeah, let's know, test it. Yeah yeah, Chris, it's
been such a joy on to talk to you. Thank you,
really wonderful getting to know you on such a deep level.
Thank you for being so open, vulnerable, and so grateful
that you're sharing you on your dad's journey and your
family's journey with us.

Speaker 1 (01:50:36):
I appreciate your Tom Man. Thank you very much to
watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:50:38):
Yeah, it was definitely worth coming twenty four hours.

Speaker 1 (01:50:41):
Thank you. It's amazing. Thank you, thank you, thank you
very much.

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
Appreciate it. Awesome man, Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:50:46):
Such ak.

Speaker 2 (01:50:47):
If you love this episode, I need you to listen
to one of my favorite conversations ever. It's with the
one and only Tom Holland on how to overcome your
social anxiety, especially in situations where you're not drinking and
everyone else is. We talk about his sobriety journey and
so much more. He gets really personal. I can't wait

(01:51:08):
for you to hear it. It's going to blow your mind.
The quote is, if you have a problem with me,
text me, And if you don't have my number, you
don't know me well enough to have a problem with me.

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