Chris Paul ON: How to Create Habits for Discipline and Consistency & Empowering Yourself Through Forgiveness for Healing

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
People are always going to say something. Always they're going
to try to have some type of narrative. But as
long as you know what's real, I think that's what
can help you keep your saying.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
The best selling authoring most the number one health and
wellness podcast On Purpose.

Speaker 3 (00:12):
With Chris Paul On Purpose, thank you for being here.

Speaker 4 (00:17):
Man.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
I am so grateful to you because you just said
season finished yesterday. The next game is in six seven days,
which we'll talk about. But the reason we're here is
to talk about this incredible book that you've written, your
memoir and ode to your Grandpa sixty one. I read
the book cover to cover, and so what I want

(00:41):
to say to everyone who's listening and watching, whether you
know Chris on the court or off the court, I
felt like you were personally sitting with me talking to
me throughout the entire book. I literally felt like it
was just me and you in the room. So I
felt like I've already had this experience in a weird way.
And what I'll say, Hey, everyone who's listening and watching,
who's you know? I hope you're going to go and

(01:03):
grab a copy of the book please. Is it is
one of the most genuine memoirs that I've read like
it felt it really felt like it was coming from
your heart. And the best thing about it is you
get to understand you on a different level to just
the game. And so I just want to take a

(01:23):
moment to say, man, that I think it was really
well done. It was so personal, so real, and I
literally felt like I was like, this is just my
friend talking to me.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Man, it's crazy, Jade that you say that in first
and foremost thanks for having me. And you probably don't notice,
but I think you probably the first person that's told
me that you read it from beginning to end, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
Because it's not even out like that. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
I don't really get a chance to talk to people
about it too much, but it's crazy to know you've
written books or what not.

Speaker 4 (01:54):
This is the first one I've done. Children's books.

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Yes, never anything like this, And I have a new
found appreciation for the process, for the entire process of
the different versions. And the very first time, if I'd
be honest, the very first time, when I got the
first copyback, I was like, Oh no, this ain't it.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
This ain't it.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
And it was because I had someone who was helping
me with it, right, But when you're talking about your
own life experiences, you wanted to sound.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
Like you, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
So when I read the very first version, I was like,
this don't sound like me, you know, And I started
from scratch.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
I could literally see the service station, like I can
see the places the way you describe them, like the people,
the characters. I literally felt like I was there. And
I think that requires all that detail and that texture
and the you know, it's your lived experience, and so
I felt like I was living that experience with you.
And so every question I ask you today is me

(02:55):
wanting to know a bit more about you from different angles,
different perspectives. Parts where I was like, I'm so lucky
that I get to sit with you and actually ask
these questions to you.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
So let's dive in.

Speaker 2 (03:04):
I want to start off with just setting context for people.
Seasons just finished, you're heading it off end of the playoffs, Like,
how do you prepare at this time to big your
huge start for you? You talk about hard work, work ethic
in the book all the time, but how is this

(03:24):
different or how do you set yourself up?

Speaker 1 (03:26):
Yes, wow, this is my eighteenth season right in the NBA,
and it's been been a lot, right, A lot of
good things have happened, but a lot of unfortunate bad
things have happened.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
Lost his injuries and all of this, and it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:41):
I usually have like this dead date, right, honestly, Like
we usually have this dead date with everybody that works
with me, where we'd be like, look, Chris will be
doing meetings and all this stuff until this date and
then we just lock in, you know what I mean.
But doing the book and everything, it's been cool and
getting a chance to do this is really cool. And

(04:01):
so when you lose it something right, like one like
group of athletes I've always thought about is Olympians, right,
Like the Olympics happened once every four years, right, and
if you trip like in that race, that's it. You
got four years till you can get ready for it again.
We see for us, like when we lost last year

(04:23):
in the playoffs, you know, you feel that heartache and hurt,
and it's like I can't wait till next year. And
now finally next year is here, you know, so we
got five six days to get ready for our first game.

Speaker 4 (04:36):
But it's it's nothing like it.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, in the book, you said you think the game.
And when I read that, I thought that was interesting
to me. I've sat down with so many athletes on
the show and behind the scenes as well, but I'd
never really heard anyone say it that way.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
What does that mean today? What does that mean right now?

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Yeah, that means do you do anything? Do you like
play cards at all?

Speaker 3 (04:58):
I used to? I mean I used to play so
growing up. That favorite.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
But like even if it's soccer, if it's connected four right,
like I played Dominant. Yeah, yeah, I play Ping Pong,
I play I play any and everything. And in everything
you do, you have to have a strategy, right, whether
it's a card game or anything, and you just have
to think different layers. You can always play right, just play,
but if you can think the game too. And so me,

(05:24):
like I was up this morning, as soon as I
woke up this morning, before I call my kids, I
was on YouTube, like looking at clips, Like I go
to YouTube and I'll look at or I'll go to
this website that'll show me every shot I've missed the
maid since I've been in the NBA. So like I'm
literally always watching trying to learn, trying to see how
it can get better. So that's what I mean when

(05:45):
I say I think the game Wow.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
So you literally go on YouTube, type in CRISP Paul
Missus and then watch.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
This website actually called Second Spectrum that you can go
do that. But I can go on YouTube and look
at this particular game. So we're playing the Clippers in
the playoffs, right, so I can go look on YouTube.

Speaker 4 (06:04):
They got everything on there. I'm sure everybody know that too.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
But you can go look at all of my shots
that I played against the Clippers this year.

Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah, and you just study.

Speaker 1 (06:15):
Study it, study the game, study who I might be guarded,
and study your opponent and all this stuff. So then
in the game, of course, talent and all that stuff,
but at some point you still got to be able
to think and sort of everybody has tendencies. Yeah, we
play eighty two games, right, there's certain things that guys
do on a regular basis. So if I can learn
that and figure that out, the better.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Yeah. I love that, And I saw that in your
book too.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
It's like it's almost like you're observing patterns, right, Like
there's all these patterns, and that's what you're saying, Like
there's patterns over eighty two games, and when you start
spotting the patterns, it's hard for people to break them.
And so they're going to keep repeating that.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
I can't imagine the things that you learned and all
the experiences that you had, right, But you know there
are certain things that are staple for people that are successful.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yes, right, yeah, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
You gotta work hard, you gotta have some type of discipline,
right or else whatever you want to see come into existence,
it's just not going to happen.

Speaker 4 (07:11):
It's like they always say, what is it.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
I'd rather be lucky than good or something like that,
but you still got to have the work ethic to
see it through.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
Yeah, what have been your Do you have like a
set morning routine on game days and preath days or
do you kind of intuitively figure it out?

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Like what are you like?

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Are you that disciplined beast that's just set up to win?

Speaker 4 (07:33):
Or you know what?

Speaker 1 (07:34):
A good friend of mine, JJ Reddick, he does a
podcast now. He talks He was my teammate but he's
retired now. Earlier this year he was talking about how
sometimes a routine can drive you nuts, right, And I
sort of got into that mode because I didn't played
so long I didne felt like if I don't do
this particular thing, I'm not sure what's going to happen tonight,

(07:58):
you know, especially with how many games I play. Like
I'm serious, I used to have so much anxiety, like,
oh man, if I didn't do this before I run
out on the court, got some injury might happen. I mean,
I used to have this crazy routine for the past
few years. Like I would get up, I would eat breakfast,
go to the gym, shoot around, might be at ten.
I might get there at eight fifteen, do all this stretching, workout,

(08:20):
shoot and go home. I would get bodywork from like
eleven fifteen, eleven thirty to like one o'clock, and then
I would lay down, had to be at one, get
up at three, shower, get dressed, eat, get in the car,
go to the game. You know, it just made for
a long day. Honestly, on a game day, it was
a long day. And so I stopped doing necessarily the

(08:42):
body work from eleven fifteen to one, just to give
me some time to live, honestly, to just be maybe
like watch a show for a little bit when my
kids in town, chill with them, or whatnot, and it's
actually been like liberating.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
But for so.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Long you just like I gotta do this, I gotta
do that, and it'll drive you.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, and it sounds like that's the way of it though, right,
Like the reason you can take that break now or
what's that show or catch up with the kids is
because of that investment you put in for like yeah,
fifteen years, sixteen years, sure, for.

Speaker 1 (09:12):
Sure, but you also realize that sometimes you gotta break
up the monotony of that routine or whatnot just to
give yourself a break.

Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
I think that's going to help a lot of people listening,
because I think there's so many people listening right now
who are stuck in their routine and don't realize how
much it'll.

Speaker 4 (09:31):
Drive you crazy.

Speaker 1 (09:32):
Especially in what we do now, there's certain things, like
there's certain handshakes that's got to happen, Like a few
things not going to change, right, Like when they call
our name out for the starting lineups, I make sure
I dip up all my teammates. Then I go to
the little slat board. I make sure I put my
foot on that three times. I make sure I get

(09:53):
the chalk, rub my hands together, clap them together three times,
hit the backstanchion.

Speaker 4 (10:00):
I got a lot of routine stuff that I do.
I like, hit my chest.

Speaker 1 (10:02):
Then I look up and you know, say what up
to Kobe, you know what I mean, and then we
do the jump ball. Some of that stuff not gonna change,
but some of the other things or whatnot.

Speaker 4 (10:12):
You have to look at your situation and realize, how
can you be I don't know, intentional what you're doing. Yeah?

Speaker 2 (10:19):
Yeah, And do you feel like all of those things
you just mentioned that aren't going to change? There were
things you picked up along the way because of wins,
Like where did those originate from?

Speaker 1 (10:27):
Yeah, So it's funny. It's funny you asked that. And
being on a team for all of my life, you know,
I've been on a team since I was five years old.
And so when you find these little things, they sort
of just happen, right. So you're out there with your
teammates and you come up with a handshake, and then
somebody like accidentally do something and then you're like, oh,
I like that.

Speaker 4 (10:47):
We're gonna keep doing that. We're gonna keep doing that.

Speaker 1 (10:49):
So all these things just sort of get added along
the way, you.

Speaker 4 (10:53):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
So like before, before I leave the locker room, I
also do like a one, two three, and a bunch
of our team trainers they yell it with me. I
do one and they yell two three. You know, So
that stuff just sort of picks up and you keep
doing it.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
That's amazing.

Speaker 4 (11:12):
Man.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
One of the things that comes through your book is
you talk so much about hard work. Confidence, you know,
seeing your own potential when no one else sees it,
being able to bet on yourself, having that confidence, and
even today I can tell this. But at the same time,
with that confidence, there's this humility in your book too,
because you talk so much about the teachers and the

(11:34):
coaches and the mentors, and you talk about this idea
about how no one's really self made, right, and so
you have this great balance between this confidence and this humility.
I wonder, what was something that you were insecure about
as a kid. Was there anything in your life that
you weren't confident about or things that made you doubt
yourself at all?

Speaker 4 (11:52):
All types of things.

Speaker 1 (11:53):
I mean I was small, right, Well, some people will
still say I am you know what I mean in
my profession, but I mean I was a little brother, right,
So I had my older brother and all his friends
would pick on me.

Speaker 4 (12:07):
You can't do this, you can't do that.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
I played football, I mean I was on my AAU
basketball team.

Speaker 4 (12:13):
I think I talk about this in the book.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
And everybody on my team was on varsity except for me, right,
and so I was a little bit slower, right than
some of the other guys. I mean, one of the
most embarrassing things was back then, our team used to
run out for warm ups and back then, like our
parents had chance and all these songs they would sing,
and as my teammates we ran out to the court,

(12:37):
everyone would run and smack the backboard, right, everybody, everybody
smacking the backboard. I couldn't touch the backboard, so I
would have to run by the backboard and just get
back in line. So I just had this conversation with
my son the other day because I told my son
he's gonna be vertically challenged just like me, and so
one of his biggest goals is to be able to dump. Right,

(13:00):
So he asked me, when did I dunk for the
first time. I was a junior, I think in high
school when I dunk for the first time. So he
was like, I'm a dunk before that. I'm a dunk
before that, And I told him I'm cool and fine
with that, but I also want him to develop the
actual skills of like playing the game. I feel like
so many times now kids just want to be able

(13:21):
to dunk instead of learning actually how to play the game.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
How did you make that difference for yourself growing up?
Because I feel like kids are always kids, right, right.
You grew up watching Jordan and you want to you know,
so I feel like everyone who grows up watching anyone,
we all want to stand that way imitate, right, And
so how did you stop yourself as an athlete when
you were coming up to refocus just as you're encouraging

(13:47):
little Chris to do?

Speaker 4 (13:47):
It was just different.

Speaker 1 (13:49):
And I say different because and it may be because
of my circumstances in my situation, right and seeing my
grandfather right, so, I saw how my grandfather provides it
for my family in so many different ways, especially financially,
and growing up the way I grew up, I always
wanted more, Like I wanted more, not just like financially,

(14:13):
but I wanted to see things, and I wanted my
family to see things. And I don't know, I've just
always been very competitive, and my brother helped make me
that way. But I just, I mean still to this day,
like I really don't take no for an answer, right,
Like there's got to be a way, There's got to

(14:33):
be a solution, and if you tell me I can't
do it, then we're gonna see about it, you know.
And so it was it was a drive about it,
and it was a drive to just want to be
better and the curiosity and I don't know, like I said,
it was almost subconscious watching my grandfather work.

Speaker 4 (14:52):
Right, So I played football. My coaches were.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Hard on me, you know, and I just knew if
I wanted to do so, I had to work.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah, that work was just obvious through your grandfather who.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Just lived it every day. And you know when you
took the.

Speaker 2 (15:09):
Kids back to see the service station in the space,
that part of the book is really special because you
reminded me so I was. I was nine years old
when my dad took me back to the home he
grew up in. And my dad's home was probably as big.
His home was as big as this room. Like cut
off that part as well, like none of that alway,

(15:31):
So his whole house was this big, and it was
in India where he grew up, and so he took
me there and I remember like walking outside, there was
a lot of like trash on the floor. There were
like rats running around, there were cockroaches inside this big
bat floor on my face like had my Batman moment,
Like I was like other nine year old kid did

(15:51):
this back floor of my face and it was disgusting.
My dad put it out my eyes and then we
went in this house and it was literally this big,
and I remember my dad was telling me how they
shared like a toilet with like thirty families, like he
grew up in, like you know, immense poverty, and it
was just one of the best experiences of my life
going there as a nine year old. So when I
was reading about you taking your kids back to drop
our service station in the space you grow up, I

(16:13):
was like, I know how formative that's been for me.
Walk us through what their reaction was. Yeah, your reasoning,
Actually everything that you just said is so valid.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
And if I be if I'm gonna be very honest,
like when you're a kid, you only know what you know, right,
And so the times that something was going on and
I seen my grandfather pour that wad of money out
of his pocket. I used to start tripping. That's a
lot of money to me, to anybody. And so like,

(16:44):
as a kid, you want things. I mean when we
was in the car and we went to McDonald's or something, right,
or say you went to Wendy's.

Speaker 4 (16:52):
I don't care where you went.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
Like if you went to Wendy's, we want the biggie
size fries, right, like we want the extra large fries
and the extra large self. We couldn't do that, you
know what I'm saying, Like my parents just wasn't doing
it because we didn't have the money to do it.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
And as a kid, I watched movies too. Did you
ever see Richie Rich?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 4 (17:12):
Right, so you see Richie Rich? You see that movie?
What was it? Blank Check? You know what I mean.
As a kid, it's like, dang, I'm trying to see
what that be like? Right, And so of course you
want things, you want things.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
But the biggest thing that I learned is when I
got to the NBA, right, and you can get those things,
they don't complete you at all, Like they don't. But
what you start to realize is that with the money
and the finance, at times you have an opportunity to
change other people's lives. So that's when the work really
just sets in and it's like, all right, I want

(17:47):
to keep working because I want to keep providing, helping
others or whatnot. So when it came to my kids,
they live a totally different life than me and my
wife ever did, right, And so this is so crazy.
I'm I'm picturing these real conversations that I have with
my kids because for me and my wife, like I
wanted something different from my parents, right, And the hardest

(18:11):
thing is trying to figure out how to get my
kids motivated because they can't get me at my wife
a new house, you know what I mean, they just can't.
And so it's constantly just making sure that they have
their own motivation. What's going to motivate them? So I
wanted them to see why I am the way I
am because sometimes they just see mom and dad or

(18:31):
they just see me, but they got a chance to
really go see why I get mad if the trash
ain't taken out, you know, because growing up, I was
having to cut the grass, we were having to fold clothes,
wash clothes, do all these different type things. So that's
one of the challenges as a parent of how do
you instill some of these things in your kids.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
Yeah, and throughout the book you see just how conscious
and intentional you are about the kids. And again, I
think there's this healthy balance where like there's a lot
of love for them and you get that it's not
their fault that they didn't have that experience. Yeah, but
at the same time you want to help them. And
I think that it's it's such a it's such a
hard balance to do, but it sounds like because you

(19:13):
and Jada are taking it so thoughtfully and intentionally that
I I just see it all the time, Like the
amount of celebrity create kids who also feel the pressure
a to be like their parents in their field.

Speaker 3 (19:27):
That's already a pressure.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Second of all, there's a feeling which I don't think
a lot of people realize, but there's a lot of
feeling of guilt for kids to be like, well, I
didn't deserve this, or my friends don't have this, or
like I didn't do it. And then on the other side,
which you get, is the entitlement as well.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
So it's such so much, so much to deal with it,
so much that goes into it. Man and I think
the only thing for us that we've always tried to
do is at least communicate with them and don't make
them guess or try to figure it out on their own.
And even oh, I'm here somewhat giving advice or whatnot,

(20:03):
or talking about my memoir, I'm always looking for advice
some of the people that I've looked to as mentors
or whatnot. Most of our conversations have been on parenting
because this thing don't come with a manual, you know,
it doesn't. And I'm constantly learning, adapting, trying to adjust
because kids, for sure will will will like test you,

(20:26):
you know, and I think it's been the best test
that I've ever had because they show you how to
love unconditionally and.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
It's the best ride.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Yeah, the part in the book that really got me
was when you're because I don't have kids yet, and
me and my wife have been together for around ten
years now, and we moved from London to New York
to LA and now we live in LA. But the
last seven years have been moving around and you know,
in our own way. Obviously I'm not moving how you are,
but still kind of that feeling of not having a

(20:56):
home right now we know we're living in LA and
we're happy, but I often think about, like how my
kids will have a different life to the life I had,
even in so that the protram picking out of your
book is when you're leaving LA and you're talking to
little Chris about it and he's really upset about it,
like because he's made his friends and he's going to

(21:18):
miss him and and you can relate to that as
a kid. It doesn't matter who your dad is. It's
like as a kid, it's like your friends are everything.
You're scared about what it's going to be like going
to a new school. I think that's when you're moving
from LA to Houston and you're just you're feeling this discomfort.
And I love what you say to him where you're like,
I need you. And I thought that was amazing to

(21:40):
hear a dad say like I need you. It wasn't
like you need to do this for me or you
got to you know, just just fix up and be
strong and man up. And how did you recognize that?
That was the conversation.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
Jay.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
I'm very visual, so even when as you're talking to me,
like I'm envisioning when it happened and we were in
my office in my house in Calabasas, and I'll never
forget his face.

Speaker 4 (22:03):
Ever. It was tough.

Speaker 1 (22:04):
And like I said, I grew up around the same friends,
right like me and my brother got a group chat
with our homies back home that we grew up with.
And that is probably one of the coolest things about
my childhood. Whereas I know, to each his own, some
people moved around a lot, and it gave them the
ability to be flexible to different cultures and this and that.

(22:27):
But it was cool having a home base. And so
when we left and Chris said that it was hard,
it was really hard, which is why we ultimately made
the decision when we went from Houston, OKC to let
them stay in LA And it's always going to be hard.
That's what you understand is that there's no perfect life,

(22:47):
there's no perfect family. Because in trying to give them stability,
now the last four years I've been without them, you know,
So I think what always ends up happening is somebody
got a sacrifice, right And if anybody gonna sacrifice as
far as my family go, I'm gonna make sure it's me,
you know.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
And that's that's how we got to where we are.

Speaker 2 (23:07):
Now, and how do you stay strong in that time?
Because I get that too, Like my wife and I
end up spending a bit of time apart every year
as well because her family, both of our families are
from London and they live in London and aniece and
nephew are there, our sisters are there. So my wife
misses family a lot, and her family's like her her
like fuel, right, and so we end up spending quite

(23:30):
a few months apart every year, And I wonder, how
do you stay strong, how do you kind of like,
what do you work on to make sure that you're
filled up as well? Because like you said, it's a sacrifice,
but at the same time, you have to take you
have to be the.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
One I'm looking for tips and advice every day. I'm
telling you, it's so hard. And I tell you, I
think that the the biggest thing that I try to
do is make sure that I'm not not too emotional
in front of in front of my kids, right, because
my kids are spell like my son is so thoughtful,

(24:04):
you know, and my daughter is the same way. And
it's so different, right, My childhood was my dad was
coach and all that my mom was a team mom,
so my parents never missed anything. I think probably one
of the coolest interactions was we played in La maybe
like a week and a half, two weeks ago, and

(24:25):
my family came to the game and my kids were
standing outside the locker room. And I had no clue
they did this, But when a few of my teammates left,
they saw my daughter and they was like.

Speaker 4 (24:35):
Cam, we be watching your baseball games.

Speaker 1 (24:37):
We'd be watching your basketball games because because I can't
be there, I'll literally be in the locker room before game.
My iPad is set up, my wife is video in
the game, and I'm doing my stretches and exercises before
the game, and anybody is in the locker room, they
can hear. They can hear my daughter's game going on.

(24:58):
So to see my wife told me how much my
daughter like. She just lit up, knowing you know that
I'm not there physically, but I'm always, you know, at
least watching and trying to when I came.

Speaker 2 (25:12):
I feel like kids feel that presence, you know. I
always felt like my parents didn't have a lot of
time for me. They were both immigrants, working hard, trying
to put food on the table. But I always felt
their presence because when I was with them or when
they did see me, there was a real connection there. Yeah,
and I didn't need like eight hours a day, ten hours.
I didn't have that luxury. They didn't have that luxury.

(25:33):
But even if it was for those couple of hours
every day.

Speaker 4 (25:36):
I say that all the time.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Man, I'm so aware and conscious that like kids, my
kids now thirteen and ten, they're very smart.

Speaker 4 (25:44):
They're very aware that if you was.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
To get them a gift, say you're a big time
person or something, you get them a gift, and somebody
works for you got them to gift your kids, you
can't fool them, you.

Speaker 4 (25:54):
Know, But they would much rather have that time.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
So when I'm in town or whatnot, if I get
a day off and I go home, the best time
for me is taking my kids to school. Right that
twenty twenty five minute drive to school. And then even
the fact that my daughter still lets me walk her in.
Those I think are the most priceless moments because one
thing that I learned during quarantine was that was the.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
First year that I lived away from my family.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Right I was in Oklahoma and then the shutdown happened
and we all went home for a while. And it
was just crazy because even though my kids might be
doing their own thing, they felt comfort. And I was
like on zoom trying to set up the bubble, right
because I was the union president.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
Of the town.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
But they felt comfort in doing their own thing. But
they knew if they looked out the side of their
eye that they could see me in my office, right,
So just the awaring it. You might not necessarily be
right there next to them all the time, but just
the fact that they know you're there.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Yeah, yeah, well said, well said. And going back to
one of your rituals, I was just thinking about this.
You said, you right, can't give up now, yeap on
your shoes before you go out to play a game,
And I was thinking, like, what is that? You know,
eighteen years is a long time to dedicate professionally and
then what to speak of all the prep and and
everything else that goes into it. But what does it

(27:15):
feel like to get traded, to feel down and out,
to feel like it's not going in the direction you want,
and then to.

Speaker 3 (27:21):
Can't give up now?

Speaker 2 (27:23):
Like I find that that kind of pivot for some
people it breaks them, and for some people it makes
them and for you, any sort of pivots have only
taken you further and further and further for you to
perform and pursue at a higher level. What is that?
Because I think people look at you and even when
I read your book, I was just thinking, you're working
really hard at basketball, You're really working out of your family,

(27:45):
You're working out of being a dad. I'm like, this
guy works hard on every area of his life. Like
there's not.

Speaker 4 (27:50):
Such you're trying to.

Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah, I respect that you don't come across as you're
perfecting it, but there's this energy of like thinking about
how'm raising my kids and thinking about my relationship. But
then when the career part is having its hiccups and
slip ups and whatever else in the past, what did
you find when you get that call give up? Now?

Speaker 4 (28:11):
Like?

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Where does that come from?

Speaker 4 (28:12):
So I'll tell you where that came from.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
Was when I got traded from Houston to Okce Like
to be, I was mad, like really mad because I've
been told one thing and another thing happened. And when
I went to Houston, we moved like fifteen people to Houston,
right so to not know and to know that I
was going to Oklahoma city.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
I was hot.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
I was in Augusta, Georgia, and I didn't know what
that meant, right, I didn't know what that meant. I
didn't know what was next. It was the first time
I had been blindsided with something like that. It's a
song by Mary Mary Right. It's called I Can't give
Up Now. Because, like I said in the book, I
grew up in church. I was in church four or
five days a week, and I remember listening to that

(28:54):
song and like getting emotional and it was like, look,
the trade didn't happen to ESPN, everybody talking about it
or whatnot. I learned this a while ago in the league,
is that ain't nobody gonna feel sorry for you? And
like you said, I've learned that too in this business,
that there's two different type of people. People who gonna
feel bad for themselves and just salt, and then there's

(29:15):
other people who gonna get to work.

Speaker 4 (29:17):
And so that was my that was my mindset.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
It was like, all right, I think I'm done, all right, cool,
I got I put my head down and do the work.
And so that was, you know, my whole energy going
into that.

Speaker 3 (29:31):
How do you differentiate between.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Well, the media is building is a narrative versus your narrative, Like,
how do you I find like athletes? That's what makes
the athletes job a million times harder than even playing
the game, especially now with social media where there's so
much chatter, so much conversation. How do you keep your
focus around this is reality?

Speaker 3 (29:52):
And that's just.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Crazy you said that because I learned something about myself
even a few years ago. I can't have that clutter right.
And when I played back in LA I think I
said this in the book too with the Clippers Doc Rivers.
He used to talk about getting rid of the clutter.

Speaker 4 (30:10):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
So when you get home from a game, if your
team lose, everybody is with your family and all that.
What they're gonna do if y'all lost the game, what
they're gonna say it was everybody else's fault.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
Right. If you lose a game and you.

Speaker 1 (30:25):
Get home, everybody in your family gon, they're gonna be like,
this person wasn't doing that, that person wasn't doing that.
They ain't never gonna say nothing about you, right, And
so that's literally clutter right, And the same thing I've
learned years ago in the playoffs, Like in the playoffs,
you got to win four games out of seven, right,
And I don't care what anybody says about social media

(30:46):
or whatnot. But if you win a game in the
playoffs and you go on the social media and you
had a great game and everybody talking about you like
you the best thing since payings with pockets, then you
might let your guard down, right.

Speaker 4 (31:00):
And the same thing.

Speaker 1 (31:01):
If you don't have a good game and you go
out there and everybody's talking about how sorry you are,
you might lose a little bit of confidence.

Speaker 4 (31:08):
So for me, I try to block out all of
that noise, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (31:12):
So that's like when the playoffs start, I don't want
to see what ESPN talking about. I don't want to
see what bleacher. I don't want to see what none
of them talking about. Because you got to just stay
locked in and stay focused. And as long as you
know what's true, you know what I mean. People always
going to say something, always they going to try to
have some type of narrative or whatnot. But as long

(31:32):
as you know what's real, I think that's what can
help you keep your sanity.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, And I think that's one of the hardest skills
for anyone. Let learn, someone who a lot of people
in the world are talking about like that's you know,
I can imagine that affects kids today. I'm sure kids
feel at school and you see that with them at school.

Speaker 1 (31:50):
And see, this is the thing I tell you. And
I'm not a parent, coach or anything like that. I
can only tell you my experience. But what I've learned
with social media with kids, right and having a thirteen
and a ten year old, is that when I was
growing up, if a girl didn't like you or something
like that, you dealt with it at school. Right once

(32:11):
you went home, you didn't have to deal with it, right,
you just saw her at school.

Speaker 4 (32:15):
The next day.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Now, with phones and social media and all that, one
thing I know is that these kids are dealing with
things all day long.

Speaker 4 (32:24):
Right.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
It could be on Snapchat, it could be on Instagram
or whatnot. And if us as adults, if we can't
handle that mental capacity, Like I said, I can't handle that,
Like I'm on Instagram, but I'll go weeks without even
looking at it, you know what I mean? Just because
I feel like, you know, with our stories and stuff
like that. Now we ask people how they're doing, we

(32:44):
already know what the hell they didn't did for the
last three weeks, you know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (32:48):
So that's just me.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Yeah, yeah, there's I want to shift here because there's
what I found was really special as someone who was
reading your book and just again, like I said, learning
so much about you. It was like you said that
your grandpa, you know, used to encourage you to listen
to obituaries and when they came on and you'd he'd

(33:12):
tell you more about that person too, like yeah, this
amazing memory.

Speaker 4 (33:16):
Weirdo. It was.

Speaker 1 (33:18):
It was weird and kind of strange because like it
wasn't no like iPhones with the alarm went off and
he knew to do it. It's like everybody would be
working and my granddaddy would just be like cut on
obituaries and as soon as somebody hit the little radio player,
the song would be playing. It's like kind of morbid,

(33:38):
and they would just start naming off the people who
had died, right, And I mean everybody out there working
and you might hear mister Ulysses or Bow or somebody say,
oh such and such die, you know, they didn't know,
and my granddad might start talking about one of them.
But because I talk about my grandmother dying when I
was seven. That was my first time, you know, being

(34:01):
faced with death. And then it's crazy. It was a
funeral home in our hometown called Russell's Funeral Home. Like
once every like two weeks or whatnot. They would bring
their fleet of cars up to the service station because
they had like a it's crazy to think about it now,
they had a business account right with my granddad's service station,
and so just it was a lot.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
Man.

Speaker 1 (34:24):
That's why I still don't deal with death. Well you
know what I mean to see the hearses pull in
there and I don't know it was it was different.

Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, it's you said that with your grandmother's past and
you were like, I never really got over that, like
and I think that's that's so real for so many people.
But like you said, like people often say like, oh,
I know how you feel, but no one can know
how you feel because they didn't know that person. They
didn't know your connection to them, that experience. Like you,

(34:52):
you dealt with that so early on at seven, and
like you said, you didn't you never really got got
over it. Now when you look back on it, is
it something you even want to get over or is
it something that just stays with you at it.

Speaker 1 (35:05):
I think it just stays with me because I tell you,
like writing this book was also like therapeutic because some
of the stuff I never talked about, and so might
have been. A week or two ago, I was talking
to my parents and was just asking them like I
was like that, I was like, when was the first
time you dealt with death?

Speaker 4 (35:23):
Right?

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Because my kids are thirteen and ten and they haven't. Right,
the only person I think that they've seen pass away
wood is my wife's grandmother, right, And so obviously the
less you have to deal with death, the better. But
I mean, as soon as I go to a funeral, right,

(35:46):
all those emotions from when I was seven, you know,
they come right back, they come right back, and it's
something about the closure aspect of it and somebody not
being there anymore. I'll tell you something really cool. When
I grew up as a kid, videoed everything. Every one
of my games was vhs, all of that. My dad

(36:08):
found a bunch of those tapes and he had them
converted into DVDs, and so recently, maybe like three weeks ago,
he sent the DVDs to me.

Speaker 4 (36:18):
He hadn't even watched him, and I put one of
the DVDs in and I was watching it.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
And we used to have events all the time at
this place up the street from my house.

Speaker 4 (36:28):
And I was looking at the video and I was like,
what is this? And I kept.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Watching it for a while, and my granddad walked in.
It was actually a video from his sixtieth birthday, right
literally just three weeks ago. Came across this and it
was like emotional watching it, and I started filming some
of it because I hadn't heard my granddad's voice in
over twenty years since he passed away. I took a

(36:54):
video of it and I put in our family group chat.
My mom called me. She pulled over to the side
of the road and she was crying because you don't
think about stuff like that, you know what I mean.
My kids they know the story of my grandfather, they
know all of that, but they had never heard his voice.

Speaker 4 (37:08):
My wife, I didn't know. She had never heard his voice.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Right, So to have this footage now and my brother
talked wishing him a happy birthday. And I'm anxiously watching.
I'm like, man, where am I?

Speaker 4 (37:23):
Where am I?

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Because you see everybody setting up and then you see
somebody say all right, everybody be quiet. He about to
walk in because it was like a surprise. And so
when I heard somebody say that, I was like, oh,
I must be bringing him in to surprise because we
used to be together all the time. And then he
walks in and out, I don't see myself, and I'm like,
where am I in this video? And as my brother's

(37:44):
giving his happy Birthday speech to my granddad, he says,
if Chris was here, he would have said the same thing.
And then I like just this whole feeling came over
me because I wasn't there, and I called my mom.

Speaker 4 (37:59):
I was like, Mom, where it was? I? Where was I?

Speaker 1 (38:02):
And she was like, you had to be at an
AU tournament. And so it was crazy, like I was
getting emotional again because I was like, damn, that's sort
of been the story of my life is missing stuff,
you know what I mean. But it's crazy, Like I said,
death and all this stuff, you just you never get
over it and you're not reminded of it until you
face with it again.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
Yeah, thank you for sharing that story, man. I mean
that's like the oh I mean to be reminded of
being absent because you're pursuing your dream, but then you
know the stuff like you said sacrifice, You said, something
has to be sacrificed. But I can't imagine what it
felt like to, you know, reconnect back with that memory
through finding an amazing tape but then feeling like you know.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
This, especially at this time with the book coming out,
to finally see that that was really cool and I think,
I mean, I got my little cousin a j and
Takoya who like twenty nine and twenty seven, they had
never heard aj had but they were kids or whatever
when he died, so they hadn't heard anything.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
Yeah. Yeah, what do you think was a lesson? There's
so many lessons in the book that you learned from
your grandpa, and that are you know. I think people
should read the book for it to learn the depth
of it. But what's the lesson that you think you
carry in your heart, the most that stays with you
right now till this day, that you feel lives with you.

Speaker 1 (39:24):
Man, it sounds so generic, but I say the work ethic, right,
But it's crazy because I could sit here and say
you gotta work, you gotta work.

Speaker 4 (39:33):
It's the work ethic. But I will also say it's
the balance because It's.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
The one thing that I also learned about my family,
and my mom said this, and I never even thought
about this. Aspect of it was that my grandfather worked
so hard, and I think I said this in the book,
that that was all he knew. So he never actually,
I don't want to say, enjoyed our family, but he
never like went on vacation, you know what I mean.

(39:59):
And I'm not saying and you gotta go to another
country or something like that, but just try to make
sure that there's balance and make sure that of course you.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
Gotta work work, work to provide.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
But make sure at some point you take some time
to enjoy the people around you and your family. Because
my mom said that the one time that my granddad
actually went on vacation was when my grandmother was about
to pass away. And so it wasn't until he's seen
that he was gonna lose my grandmother that he was like, Okay,

(40:32):
I need to do something with her.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, And you talk about how like you used to
finish work at like seven am to seven thirty and
then he started ending at six yep. And you were saying,
like to some people that may not be a big thing,
but in your family.

Speaker 3 (40:44):
That was huge.

Speaker 4 (40:45):
I was huge because all you.

Speaker 3 (40:46):
Saw him do is work.

Speaker 1 (40:47):
I always saw him. I always saw him do his work.
And when my grandmother died is when anywhere he went.

Speaker 4 (40:54):
I tried to go with him. I try to go
with him. And it's it's tough, man. Like I like,
I keep.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
Saying, my mom is unbelievable because I mean, I'll be
thirty eight in a few weeks and I still got
mom and dad. And it's not till I got older
and I started like I was like, man, mom, you
lost mom and dad? You know, so I can't imagine that.

Speaker 4 (41:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (41:20):
Yeah, And how did they process it? Because you say
in the book, like how you know, we don't always
do therapy, We don't always talk about it. Like have
you helped them with their grief while you help yours?
Do you find it useful as a family to connect
or is it?

Speaker 1 (41:32):
You know, it's crazy. I don't think my parents have
read the book yet. I'm so excited for him to
read it. I want them to read the book, but
I also want them to listen to the audiobook because
I did the audiobook so they can actually hear my voice.
And I think when they read it. They probably gonna
learn some stuff about me that they probably don't know.
And I know my family's extremely emotional and a lot

(41:55):
of times we're all working, we're all on the move,
we're all.

Speaker 4 (41:57):
On the go. But I think it's going to be
so cool to talk about once they read it.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
Yeah, what do you think is going to shock them
the most, to surprise them the most, or or something
you think that they're going to be maybe even is
there anything that would make them money easy?

Speaker 3 (42:10):
What do you I don't.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
Think anything's gonna be uneasy.

Speaker 1 (42:12):
Some of it probably be funny because I talk about
some of me and my brothers, like childhood growing up,
my parents never talking to us about sex, all this
different type stuff. But it's gonna be real cool and
I think they'll probably I mean, I try to tell
my parents how much I appreciate them all the time,
but hopefully they get more of a feeling of that

(42:33):
through the book too.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, do you think you're talking about the hard work
and the balance and it's such a It's something that
I think all of us who are ambitious or obsessed
with figuring out right, you want to put everything into
the thing you love, the thing you were born to do.
And at the same time, you realize it's meaningless if

(42:54):
the family, the relationship, the friendships aren't there.

Speaker 4 (42:57):
Right.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
We always hear that to them, like no one wants
to be low at the top or it is lonely
at the top. Right, And so do you think that
that makes you sacrifice success or do you think that
it is success is to be able to have buzz?

Speaker 1 (43:09):
It depends, it depends if you can have both, then
that's probably the ultimate goal, right, to have both, to
have that success and have that balance. But the thing
that I'm always battling with, right is that eighteen years
of my life I've been in the NBA, and that
is a blessing.

Speaker 4 (43:28):
Right. I want to be there. I want to be
there for my kids' events.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
I want to be a dad just like my dad
was to me, because I'm not where I'm at without
my dad sort of cultivating that and being there. And
then there's this other side of it too, whereas if
I was to retire, right and stop playing, knowing that
I still got a lot left in the tank and
still got the passion and whatnot, would I be this

(43:55):
amazing dad that I want to be if I gave
gave up my own passion, right. So that's the hard decision.
That's the hard decision that everyone has to make all
the time. And I constantly have those conversations with my
kids and my wife about it, and you know, we
ultimately sort of decided that they wouldn't like the person

(44:18):
that's at home if I stopped playing prematurely.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
Yeah, that's so real, man, I think that's like the
that's that's the biggest realization, is like, how if you're
not living your purpose, the person you become is like
a figment, like a little tiny piece of who you
really are, and then everyone's getting that leftover version.

Speaker 4 (44:38):
Of you exactly.

Speaker 1 (44:39):
And so it's crazy. You just never know it's you know,
that time. You know you won't get that time back.
It ain't like you can stop playing and then called
the NBA in four or five years be like yo,
pick me back up, you know. But also you don't
get that time back with the kids. So that's what
we all trying to figure out.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
If you were in that tape, if you're there at
that bus day, what would you have said?

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Oh, man, I'm sure it's a tape somewhere from one
of those other birthdays, But I know I would have
just talked about how my granddad was my best friend,
you know, and how I was happy for him to
be there, and I probably would have said something about
him not having his teeth in you.

Speaker 4 (45:20):
Know, in that video. In the video that I seen
of him, he didn't have his teeth in his mouth.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
So as soon as I seen him walk in and
his whole face was closed up, I was like, where
is my granddaddy teeth at?

Speaker 4 (45:31):
But I don't know?

Speaker 1 (45:33):
And it was crazy for me because, like I said,
I'm watching his video not knowing what it is, and
then when I see it's his sixtieth birthday, knowing that
he died literally the next year at sixty one, it
was it was crazy. So I would have definitely just
told him, you know how much I love and appreciate him,
and probably try to get him to move in with
us again.

Speaker 2 (45:52):
What do you think is a lesson that if he
was here with us today that he'd still want you
to learn or something he'd be poking at you at?
Oh man, what do you think he'd be coaching on
right now? Probably all the texts that I get my temper?
Oh yeah, probably, But I don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
I think the biggest thing that my granddad would be
proud of if he was still here was just that
our family is still together, you know what I mean.
I think that's the biggest thing that he'd be proud
of because he had he had my mom, and he
had my aunt Randa, right, and so the fact that
even in La that's where my wife and kids lives,

(46:30):
where my brother lives, that's where my aunt Ronda's kids,
Aj and Koya live, like all the holidays, we all
still get together, even after all this time. And uh,
I think that's what he'd be most proud of.

Speaker 2 (46:43):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's like when I'm reading
the book, I had the the buds, I viewed note
of what had happened in your experience, but then to
read it and to get the real context of the
depth of your relationship with your grandpa, which then when
you read about what happens, you're like, you know that

(47:03):
that like it gets it gets you, right, like it
gets me. I wasn't close with my granddad at all.
I never I barely met my dad's dad, and I
was never really that close to my mom's dad, and
so I didn't I don't have I can't even say
I know how you feel because I don't even have
that context. But I felt close to your relationship with
your granddad because of how you describe him, and then

(47:26):
I mean, there's no words to describe it, for it
to happen, just in the most tragic way that you
could lose someone you love, and the way you find out,
the way you rush over there, Like, yeah, that whole
moment when I'm reading it, it was like, I can't imagine
how tough it is to relive that for you as
you're writing it out. And why was it so important

(47:49):
to share that piece and why did it mean so
much to you to share that piece?

Speaker 4 (47:54):
Yeah, I think it was important for me to share
it just.

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Selfishly for me too, you know, to talk about it,
and also to show why I am sort.

Speaker 4 (48:05):
Of the way I am and why I'm wired the way.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
I am, and I don't know, keep learning little things
like throughout the book. Throughout the process of writing a book,
I was having to call and ask like my mom
some questions, right, Like that's how I found out my
granddad's name was.

Speaker 4 (48:22):
Chili, Like we called them pop out Chili, but.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Called my mom Luckily, my granddad still has a few
siblings that are still alive, and that's why it's so
important to ask our grandparents and things like that questions
so we know our history. And I don't know, I
think it was just great for me. Obviously, I want
a lot of people to read it. But sometimes I

(48:47):
was almost in the book just talking to my family
because even being away from home, right, I haven't lived
in Winston Salem in eighteen years, and that's where all
my family is, like you were saying, your wife, like
London or whatever.

Speaker 4 (48:59):
I grew up around all my family.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
So in some parts of his memoirs, me talking to
my family back home that I've been away from from
a long time and just letting them know how much
I appreciate him, how much I miss him through a lot.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Of these experiences too. It's taught me.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I really treasure the relationship that my kids have my
parents and my wife's parents, right, because my dad, my
mom and dad, they are not the same people to
raise me, right, they are not the way they be
so nice to my kids. And you know, my son
in the backyard shooting basketball when he was younger, and
he bricking left and right and my mama just yelling

(49:40):
good job, baby, No, that is not what you're supposed
to be doing. But there are times when my kids
will do something and I get on them, and I
see my dad them like be easy on them, and
I like, you wasn't easy on me. But because of
my grandfather and that relationship, I get it, like I

(50:00):
get it when my parents would get mad at me
or I get my butt whoop.

Speaker 4 (50:04):
The first person I called was my granddad.

Speaker 1 (50:06):
So I'm grateful for that because those relationships are really important,
and I want to make sure that my kids have
that bond that I had.

Speaker 4 (50:17):
Too with my granddad.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, for sure, And that's I'm so happy to hear that.
I'm so happy to hear you feel that your kids
have that video parents and Jada's parents, because yes, because.

Speaker 1 (50:27):
When they wake up, when my parents are in town
and my kids wake up in the morning, they run
in their first, they running that first, and I see
the way that my parents light up, and it seriously
like I literally look at my parents and I think
back to my granddad and how he must have felt.
It's so crazy. What's is twenty twenty three. My dad

(50:48):
is sixty two now and so when my granddad, I mean,
when my dad turned sixty one last year, it was
like crazy emotional for me because I was like, man,
this is how old my grandad it was when I
lost them, and it's crazy to see like my dad.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and for them to have him in
health and greatness. It's I think the part that really
blew my mind is you saying how you found a
way to have empathy and you know, some sort of
like forgiveness for the four individuals that assaulted your grandfather.

(51:27):
And I think having to relive it again when the
case gets opened up again and you know, you know,
to deal with it up until twenty twenty one, I
think it was like, you know, it's like that having
to go through it is the worst thing anyway, and
then to have to leave, relive it again, and for
it to be opened up, and for innocence to be
the topical conversation, and for then again for it to close.

(51:50):
Like but for you to be in a place where
you said, it's taken you a long time, but you
feel like there's a certain level of empathy, I'm like,
that is I mean, it walk us through the journey,
not the end, because the end is the hard part.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
But yeah, the journey is tough because in the immediate reaction,
Oh yeah, Like I said in the book, I had
some family members who was gonna handle it, handle it themselves, but.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
It was I don't know, it took a while.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
But then you start to realize, no matter what happens,
he's not coming back, right, I couldn't get him back.
And I don't know if it was just getting older
or the way that I like watch shows. You start
learning about the prison system and all this different type stuff,
and you just start realizing that people make mistakes, sometimes

(52:43):
bigger than others. But being incarcerated for that long of
a time, you know what I mean, If you can
show that you're remorseful and everything, that everything has happened,
that's when I definitely think you need a second chance
at this thing.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Did you ever receive any remorse or apology or any
sort of thing from them or that never happened?

Speaker 4 (53:06):
No? No, never.

Speaker 1 (53:07):
And what's crazy is, like I said, when that case
got reopened, that was one of the first times. It
was the first time that I actually started finding out
details about the case. Because you think about, like I said,
I was in college and my.

Speaker 4 (53:23):
Parents wouldn't let me go.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
They wouldn't let me go to any of the court
hearings or anything like that. And over the years, I
tell you, my aunt Ronda, she'd have wanted to be
on top of everything. And it was a few times
that I used to ask her. I used to be like, Auntie,
show show me what the boys looked like, you know,
and she would like pull up a picture or whatnot.
And that was like hard to even look at because

(53:46):
you started questioning asking why, like hell, why would you
do this? But as time goes on, you just you
just try to heal.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
That's that's huge man, to hear the apology and remorse
and to almost to accept an apology you never received
in order to rise above. I mean that that's like,
I mean, that's I mean. I was gonna ask you,
what do you think is the toughest thing you've ever done?
I'm like, that sounds like the toughest thing anyone's ever

(54:18):
had to do.

Speaker 1 (54:19):
Yeah, for sure, it's definitely one of them. Like I said,
I think it was the unexpected situation as far as
my granddad and in the book, like I really like detail,
you know, when traumatic things happen you sort of tend
to remember everything down to I remember scuffing my Jordans,
you know what I mean, right there about the gym, and.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
It was crazy.

Speaker 1 (54:40):
It was just a whirl when how everything happened that
went from the best day on the fourteenth seriously like
a movie. The fourteenth signed my letter of intent to
the fifteenth that happened. You start to realize that, I
don't know, like I'm right here thinking about it. Yeah,
I love that when people when people call you sometimes
now whatnot? Like you always hope for the best, but

(55:01):
expect the worst. You know, when somebody says, yo, do
just happen?

Speaker 4 (55:05):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (55:05):
Even though that one situation happened, it sort of almost
gets you on edge whenever something happens.

Speaker 4 (55:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Well, well, I think that the book is genuinely like
it's a beautiful dedication to your grandpa, Like it is
like I can't imagine anyone in the world who wouldn't
be super proud to be honored in that way. Like
it's such a beautiful honoring of a person that you loved.
And I don't think I've ever read a memoir that
felt like an honoring of someone else.

Speaker 4 (55:35):
Man I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
Yeah, I really mean that.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
It's like I was reading it, I was like, you,
you know, obviously you shared you do share so much
about yourself, but so much about yourself is in him
for sure and from him, and so you know, to
read something with someone honest, like almost offering your life
as an honoring to him, is to do that in
a memoir, it's very very special. It's like very special.

Speaker 4 (55:58):
How many books have you written?

Speaker 3 (56:00):
Ran not too?

Speaker 4 (56:02):
Oh, yeah, this is one.

Speaker 1 (56:03):
And that was that took a while because, like you said,
I wanted you to be able to feel like what
I was experiencing and what I was going through. And
it's cool, it's really cool. It's really cool to hear
that you you read it.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
All.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
That sort of made me nervous when you said that too,
because because it's probably not always going to be.

Speaker 4 (56:22):
The best or whatnot.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
But if somebody can draw any experience from it, right,
any experience from it, and I think then that was
a win.

Speaker 4 (56:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
And I didn't mean to scare you. I just wanted
it to know, you know. I just I feel like
when I when I started to dive into you and it,
I was just like I just needed to feel like
I had a real grasp of what you've gone through
to honor you in this way as well, Like sure,
when I sit down with someone, I feel like I'm
trying to to some degree appreciate and honor their life

(56:54):
because it's my ability to also capture your you as
a as a human and even the name Like I
remember when the book first came on my desk and
I was trying to figure out like I didn't get
the physical version, but the digital version. When it first
came to me, I was like, sixty one interesting, and
I started diving into everything around it, and what did

(57:15):
it feel like when in that game, you you know
when you talk about all the feelings that rush through
ahead of like, oh, that's the record of Jordan at
sixty seven, and you know, I feel like when you're
in that place, so many things are flashing in between
your eyes, like just walk us through that.

Speaker 1 (57:33):
It was crazy because, like I said, the high school
that we played against was my mom's old high school, Parkland,
and the most I scored in the game up to
them might have been like thirty four or thirty six.
And I know that when death happens or things happen
for me. A lot of times I get quiet, right,
and a lot of times that's because I'm just trying

(57:54):
to collect my thoughts or trying to breathe, or I
don't necessarily know what I'm always thinking. But I knew
that I wanted to try to honor my granddad somehow,
some way, and I didn't want everybody to know, you know,
I'm one of those people to just like try to
get it done right, get it done. And when it happened,

(58:16):
and I had fifty nine and I drove and I
scored the sixty first point. I think about it, that
was twenty years ago, right, twenty years ago, So I
couldn't foresee that I would be in the NBA all
this different type stuff. But that was the highlight, right,
And I just never forget being so tired and exhausted

(58:37):
because emotionally I'd been drained, right, had literally been drained,
and seeing my dad over there on the bench and
my brother what not, just made it that much more emotional.
And I knew, like right then that all my family
was in town or whatnot, and that's something that would
always connect us for the rest of our lives.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Yeah, I think for so many people went through something
like that twenty years ago. It's easy to for all
of us on the outside to look back now and
see how incredible it is. But for so many people
that would have been a very valid reason to give
up on their dream or for it to not happen,
because you know, it derails you and it can derail

(59:19):
your life, and that would be completely valid. But to
actually look back at it now and go, this career
is dedicated to this person through your lens, it's remarkable
to think that you can find the courage to step
up again and go from that.

Speaker 4 (59:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:34):
I think what's even crazier for me, probably at this
point in my life, is that I've actually been without
my grandfather longer than I was with him, right, And I.

Speaker 4 (59:44):
Never think about that. You sort of just live or whatnot.

Speaker 1 (59:47):
But there is literally almost nothing that I can do
on a daily basis that I don't think about it,
you know. And what's crazy is in the book, I
think said something about one of his favorite scriptures being
Philippians for thirteen.

Speaker 4 (01:00:04):
I can do all things through Christy strength is me.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
And that video I just found when he's standing up
thanking everybody for coming to his birthday thing. He says that,
and it gave me goosebumps, he says that in the video.
So one thing about it, I'm gonna tell my daddy
to keep finding videos because this is it's really nice
to have.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Yeah, and that's not the watch though, that's a different one.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
No, it isn't the watch. But Vacheron right, this is
the two two two.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
I literally got this watch because it looks looks like
the one.

Speaker 3 (01:00:39):
Yeah, the way you described was like, yeah, yeah, this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Watch looks like and I mean I think I talk
about how strict my parents were growing up. There was
no earrings, no nothing like this or whatnot, no tattoos
or whatnot. But last summer I got this this tattoo
right here with your chevron logos right yeah, for my
brand there.

Speaker 3 (01:01:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
I love getting to do this because I even even
just singing with you right now, I'm like, I'm thinking,
I'm so grateful that I came out today to sit
with you, to have this opportunity, because you know, it
takes a lot of courage to sit with someone and
for them to open up in this way, and obviously
you have a book to do it. And I was
really fortunate to have the same experience to sit down

(01:01:22):
with Kobe in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 3 (01:01:26):
Twenty nineteen, yeah, twenty nineteen, it would have been.

Speaker 4 (01:01:29):
It was.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
It was literally like two months before his tragic accident.
So I got to interview him and we didn't we
didn't know each other in the same way we don't
know each other, but I felt like there was a
real connection. It was such a such a gravitas and
such a presence when he spoke, and just his demeanor
with the team and just everything. And even today, like

(01:01:51):
you know, I think when you talk about not being
able to play with someone but knowing what could have been,
but you again, even today, you were like you look
up and you know on him in that way, like
how do you navigate what ifs in your career? I
feel like that again, as an athlete is such a
scale because there's so many what ifs, like what if

(01:02:12):
I did that, played it that way, played with this,
but like you know, and so talk us through that
because I think even in life, like that's what your
whole book about, just for everyone who's listening. Chris's whole
book is about what his granddad tore him off the court,
which applies on the court, and then on the court
lessons that apply off the court, right, And there's this
beautiful synergy. But I think there are so many people
listening and watching right now who live their life and

(01:02:33):
what ifs. Yep, And You've had a lot of what ifs.
That's the big one you call out in the book.
How do you breathe and live through that?

Speaker 4 (01:02:41):
You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
It's twenty four chapters in my book. You know what
I mean as a tribute to Kobe, You know what
I mean. And I was actually on the phone with
Adam Silver yesterday and I brought up a Kobe quote
talking to him, and I actually talked to Vanessa every
now and then too. That's probably one of the coolest,
if not the best award that I've gotten since I've
been in the NBA. Was a year before last they

(01:03:05):
started a Kobe and GG Award and I was able
to get the first one that they did. And so
Cod was just different, right, and the way he approached things,
but the way we competed against each other. And I
think in the book, what I keep talking about when
you say the what ifs, right, I always say, if

(01:03:25):
there was one thing that I could change, in my
entire career. It wouldn't be wins and losses. It would
be how I rehabbed after my very first surgery.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:36):
So, I had surgery on my moniscus back in two
thousand and nine, right, and I was so young and
nine twenty ten, and I was so young at the
time that it was like, all right, they did the.

Speaker 4 (01:03:49):
Surgery, Okay, I'm gonna be fine.

Speaker 1 (01:03:51):
Right, didn't really take rehab that series because I was
just so young. It was like, Okay, they fixed it,
I'm gonna be fine. But because of that, I've had
so many different things over my career, different hamstring things
or whatnot. And me and my agent was talking about
it the other day, but sort of the story of
my career has been the different situations that have happened

(01:04:15):
over my career how I've learned from them.

Speaker 4 (01:04:18):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
So, an injury that I had, right, it taught me something,
and I was like, Okay, I'm gonna figure out how
how it's gonna make me better. Right I get traded
or whatnot. Okay, they feel like I ain't performing well enough,
I'm not playing enough games.

Speaker 4 (01:04:33):
Houses gonna make me better?

Speaker 1 (01:04:34):
So every time something has happened, right, you know, I
gotta talk about in the book. The craziest thing, probably
one of the crazy things in my career, was that
injury in Houston when I got hurt and we were
a game away from going to the NBA Finals.

Speaker 4 (01:04:52):
And so.

Speaker 1 (01:04:54):
Had that not happened, had I not hurt my hamstring
that year and then heard it again next year, I
don't think I still would be playing in the league
right now. Because all of that stuff was a wake
up call to me. It was like I got to
change something. I got to change something, I got to
figure this out. And once all that stuff happens, all right.

(01:05:14):
So if you if you if you sit around and
I'll tell you this, if you sit around and dwell
on that, what if too long somebody gonna pass you by?
You know, So if you're sitting over there trying and
figure out, what if somebody else over here gonna take
your job?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
Yeah, yeah, definitely. And that's and I love that idea.
If this happened, what can I do better? This happened?

Speaker 3 (01:05:34):
What can I do better?

Speaker 2 (01:05:35):
That That mentality is like continuous improvement and rededication as opposed.

Speaker 1 (01:05:40):
To exactly instead of what if it might be, what's next.
You know what I mean, because yeah, you can sit
back and chill and me and Cob every now and
then be like, man, we play together, we play together.
Yeah whatnot? But everybody can't do it. But I can
compartmentalize that. I can talk about this what if. But
I'm still you know, I still got my eye on

(01:06:01):
what's what the goal is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Yeah, yeah, I think I think a lot of us
live in what if, but we all have to learn
to live in what is and then what's next, as
you said, because that that's what we have.

Speaker 4 (01:06:13):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (01:06:13):
And I love hearing that. It's great.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
But what I appreciate is it's a nuance. It's really
subtle what you just said there, And I want people
to appreciate it because what you're saying is I can
feel this way, I can compartmentalize it, and I can
move on. And I think that's super healthy because I
think a lot of us pretend like we don't have
what ifs, right Like it's easy to and I love
what you just what we do injury, it's a lot.

(01:06:35):
It's very easy to walk up like I've got no regrets.
I know what ifs in my life. But the truth
is we all have them, and if you don't address them,
they're going to come up somewhere exactly, but you're saying, no,
you have it, compartmentalize it, and then focus on one.

Speaker 1 (01:06:49):
Next you're going to be sitting around telling them high
school stories or whatnot that don't nobody care about.

Speaker 4 (01:06:54):
No more.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Yeah, and that and that happens to all of us.
We can all live in nostalgia and walk down memory lane. Chris,
this has been such an honor to say with you.
Is there something that I haven't asked you, something that's
in your heart and mind right now?

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Before?

Speaker 2 (01:07:10):
I have a couple more questions, but is there anything
that I haven't asked you, something that's in your heart
and mind right now that you really want to share
that you feel like I haven't touched on.

Speaker 1 (01:07:18):
No, just the appreciation for this and being able to
talk and tell my story through the book, and I
hope people can really feel.

Speaker 4 (01:07:27):
That it was really about that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
It was about letting people understand and know about me
and make sure that people understand that, Look, my family,
like anybody else, has got their issues. Everybody isn't all
like loving and all this stuff on each other at
all times. I mean extended family or whatnot. But at
the end of the day, it's my family, you know.
And as long as you, you know, try to work

(01:07:52):
through different things with you and yours, I promise you,
you know, you'll appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:07:57):
And there.

Speaker 3 (01:07:58):
Yeah, I love that. Well, Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
The end every on Purpose episode with a final five
and these ones have to be answered in one word
to one sentence maximum. But I always change the rules,
so we'll try. Chris, what's the best advice? And I'm
guessing it's going to be from Grandpa, But what's the
best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
Never delayed gratitude? I was actually from my college coach skript.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Process walk us through that. Actually I want to hear them.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
Yeah, never delayed gratitude, and that means, you know, if
you're grateful or thankful for anything, be sure and tell people,
you know, be sure and tell people like I don't
care where I'm at, what's going on. Whenever I get
off the phone with my parents, my wife, my kids,
or whatnot, it's always I love you.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
You know those.

Speaker 1 (01:08:45):
Times when you say you're going to tell somebody something
in the morning or something like that, like you just
never you absolutely never know what's going to happen.

Speaker 4 (01:08:53):
So never delayed gratitude.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
And that was a coach you said that to you,
How did how did that apply to sport? And how
why did he introduce because that's so interesting to get
from a like a basketball coach.

Speaker 4 (01:09:04):
Yeah, so I talk about coach process a lot yees.

Speaker 1 (01:09:07):
Because he's one of the three most influential men in
my life. And he just had all of these sayings, right,
never delay gratitude. If you can't be on time, be early.
Don't be a two to four guy, be a four
to two guy. And it was just all these different things.
And the reason that never delayed gratitude thing how it
related to sports, was it's hard to win a game, right,

(01:09:31):
It's hard to win one game, let alone make.

Speaker 4 (01:09:34):
It to the playoffs.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
Like I coached the other night when we clinched to
make it to the playoffs. In the locker room, he
just told everybody, he said, listen, I'm grateful for you guys.

Speaker 4 (01:09:43):
We always talk about gratitude.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
It's a lot of teams that's going home and going
on vacation, but you know, don't take it for granted
that you get a chance to play in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
Yeah, that's awesome, man, I love that, and I think
a lot of young athletes are listening. If you have
kids who a young athlete like, that's great advice because
often that kind of softer touch is missed, like you
don't think it's there.

Speaker 4 (01:10:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
But when I say never delay gratitude also mean for
like kids to your parents. Like when I'm at my
basketball camps, I always make all the kids stand up
and turn around and tell their parents thanks because, like
I said in the book, my dad spent his entire
four one k on me and my brother playing travel basketball.
So that's where these kids they get to go do
all these camps and all this stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:10:25):
And don't delay gratitude. Tell your parents thank you, because
every kid is not getting that opportunity.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Yeah. Actually I want to I want to take a
side note on that because one of the things I
was blown away by in your journey is just how
much purpose and giving back in service is such a
big part of how your your foundation, the way it's
set up your when you walk through the you know,
the the murder of and the death of George Floyd
and Black Lives Matter, and then how you're dealing with

(01:10:51):
it in the bubble, and of course with your role
at the time, and you talk about how like you
changed the messaging three times. They went from peace, yeah,
I forgot with the other.

Speaker 4 (01:11:00):
One say their name, yes, say I think it was equality?

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
Equality yeah correct, yeah, yeah exactly, and you shift through it.
And I was just thinking, like, there's just so much
intention in your life with all the work that you've
chosen to do. What's been kind of like a meaningful
fruit or result that you've seen that as Really.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
It's a lot of different things, and I'm fortunate to
have an amazing team that works with me or whatnot,
because obviously I'm dealing with a lot of different things
on a given day and trying to be the best
athlete that I can be. But they're constantly bringing different things, saying, hey,
would you like to support this or could you do this?
And I'm always trying to as much as I can.

(01:11:42):
And I think the most valuable thing that I have
is time. So even if it's before a game or
after a game, given a young kid an opportunity to
watch me warm up or taking a picture with him
and just giving them your undivided attention for five minutes
is one of the most valuable things that you can
do with anybody.

Speaker 4 (01:12:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:00):
Absolutely, And I just I want to read this out
because it's so it's so powerful. So last March, Chris
was the only athlete appointed to President Biden's Advisory Board
on Historically Black Colleges and Universities. And that's been I
mean that, that's incredible that you've become a spokesperson and
a champion for that. Is there some of the work
there that's resonated or some stories that you think, oh man,

(01:12:24):
it's probably so many. Yeah, I mean, well we got
a lot of different things. What we've done is me
and my brother a few years ago and then Carmen
actually did it too. We went to this business class
at Harvard with Anita Elbers, a bim's class Business Education,
Management Sports I think. And after going to that class

(01:12:47):
at Harvard, we were like, why isn't this curriculum of
course offered at HBCUs. And we got to work and
Anita helped with it, and now we have that had
a few different hbcusow right, So just always trying to
figure out how we can make some type of impact.

(01:13:07):
Equality again exactly equal as equal access to education, it's incredible.

Speaker 3 (01:13:12):
I'm glad. I'm glad we went there.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Actually, Second question, what is the worst advice you've ever
heard or received?

Speaker 4 (01:13:18):
Worst advice? That cheese tastes good Jesus disgusting.

Speaker 1 (01:13:24):
Like, seriously, I've never had a cheeseburger, macaroni and cheese,
none of that disgusting.

Speaker 2 (01:13:31):
I thought, you do my cheeses and money. Literally yeah, literal, yeah, literal, Okay, literally,
So you don't like.

Speaker 4 (01:13:38):
Cheese at all at all? No evenrom pizza, no, no, no, no,
I'm cool. No cheesy fries. Okay. My brother when we
used to get home from school, he used to go
in the refrigerator and get the block of cheese. What
is that?

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
That string cheese? Kind of like I think I know way.

Speaker 4 (01:13:56):
Too, I don't know. He used to have to take
plastic off the saturday. Yeah, I'm doing that. Put muc
it's all in his body.

Speaker 2 (01:14:03):
And now, oh so question number three, how would you
define your current purpose?

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
You know, basketball and athlete, that's what I do, not
necessarily all of who I am, but just trying to
help make a difference in different aspects of life, whether
it be HBCUs, whether it be health and wellness, I
think that's been a big thing that I've become passionate
about the past four or five years, is trying to

(01:14:30):
figure out how to make some of these health things
more accessible, right, and make people more aware, like I'm
always curious about this.

Speaker 4 (01:14:43):
That, whatever it may be.

Speaker 1 (01:14:44):
I'm so curious about water and the things that people
are eating and all these different type things, and trying
to make sure that other people become.

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
Aware like I am.

Speaker 1 (01:14:54):
And the other biggest purpose is whatever I have to
do for my family, whatever I have to do do
for my family, especially my wife and kids. Is just
trying to figure out how I can continue to pour
into them.

Speaker 2 (01:15:07):
Question of before what's your reaction to the title point God?

Speaker 4 (01:15:12):
Oh man, the point god thing has been.

Speaker 1 (01:15:17):
It's crazy. I don't even know when it started. I
don't even know when it started. But it's a privilege, right,
like an honor basically that people see you playing.

Speaker 4 (01:15:28):
The game the right way. Now.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
It ain't some like worshiping thing or whatnot, but I
get really like kind of shying back for when people
say that or whatnot. But it's it's cool to be
even in that consideration and playing for as long as
I played.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
Fifth and final question, if you could create riositas to
every guest who's ever been on the show, if you
could create one law that everyone in the world had
to follow, what would.

Speaker 4 (01:15:56):
It be one all everybody in the world, in the
world had to follow.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
What would it be?

Speaker 1 (01:16:04):
And take you to Oh that everybody got to get
them guns up, man, everybody.

Speaker 4 (01:16:09):
Everybody come turn them in. Everybody, come turn them in. Everybody.
So we got some beef for something like that, or
somebody got to do something. You got to fight it out.
You got to fight it out. Oh no, that was
the first thing.

Speaker 3 (01:16:22):
Yeah, that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:16:24):
Thank you, Chris, Paul everyone Chris incredible memoir sixty one.
Make sure you grab it. We're gonna put the link
and the comments and the captions across the board. I
wanted to go read this book. If you're already a
fan of Chris, you're gonna love it. If you're learning
about Chris through this, you're gonna love it even more
because it's it's truly a remarkable story of love, of sacrifice,
of connection, of generations passing on beautiful lessons. You've got

(01:16:48):
like four or five generations in the book being talked about.
So I hope you go and grab a copy of
sixty one. Chris Paul. It's been a pleasure. And honestly,
you're you're you're a real one man. This is like
this has been one of my favorite interviews. Honestly because
you're so present. When I was sitting with your book,
it felt that way. And to sit with you and
to what you thinking and to what you visualize it

(01:17:09):
and to what you telling it from memory, and then
for you to share that story about finding that tape
or your father finding that tape, I mean, just really
grateful man.

Speaker 3 (01:17:17):
Thank you for this.

Speaker 4 (01:17:18):
I appreciate you. Jay, thank you, thank you, thank you man.

Speaker 2 (01:17:20):
If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with
Kobe Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to
find your purpose.

Speaker 4 (01:17:29):
Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem
solve in parents and coaches have become more directive and
trying to tell them how to behave orsus teaching them
how to behave

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