Codie Sanchez: This is How You Get Rich off Your Normal Salary! (Use THIS Easy Formula to Build REAL Wealth NOW)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you don't understand money, you're never going to make
more of it because understanding money is like speaking a language.
How are you going to speak to somebody in Spanish
and had communicate and win at that relationship if you
guys don't speak the same language. So I want people
to speak the language of money. Let me tell you,
like one way to know if you're financially literate today,
do you really understand the difference between debit and credit
cards and why you should really never be using debit cards?

Speaker 2 (00:23):
The Number one Health and well Inness podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Jay Setti, Jay Shetty sly Set.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Hey everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
come to become the happier, healthier and more healed. Today's
guest was one of your favorites of the last twelve months.
Her episode blew up on audio, crushed it on video,
and I'm so excited to have her back because the
words you used to describe her were this is so practical,
this is so simple, this is so easy. Thank you,

(00:54):
thank you, thank you, thank you. That's all I saw
in the comments. We had to bring her back, and
we're so lucky that we could. I'm speaking about the one,
the only Cody Sanchez, entrepreneur, investor, founder of Contrarian Thinking,
a platform that helps people achieve financial freedom by acquiring
overlooked cash flowing businesses. Formerly a journalist and Wall Street investor,

(01:17):
Cody now leads a global community focused on ownership, unconventional investing,
and thinking differently about money. Through her platforms, including the
best selling book Main Street Millionaire. If you don't have
a copy, go and grab one. Cody has built a
community of over four million people, teaching them how to
think critically, invest wisely, and own their financial future. Please

(01:41):
welcome back to On Purpose, Cody Sanchez.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
I'm so excited to be here, Cody.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
It's great to have you back. And you know what's
really fun is when you met someone, you hit it off,
and then you're hanging out again. It just feels like
normal and easy and how it I want to start
with something that I think everything everyone's thinking about fascinated
by it because a lot of us start to believe
the media and we read articles, we see the news,

(02:07):
we see headlines, and we assume that now is not
a great time to make money, and we keep saying
things like when the market's better, when the market shifts
it's a terrible time to buy property. It's a terrible time.
And the funny thing is that rhetoric just continues. So

(02:29):
what should people think about right now when it comes
to money.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Yeah, well, first I think you got to be honest
about the fact there's heart out there and that it's real.
Like all the things that you're feeling about money and
finance right now are real. Wages have been the same
really since you know, you and I were born. It
hasn't really increased. Yeah, I mean, you know, if you
go back and you go to let's say, back to
Dave Ramsey's days, who is a friend and I think

(02:53):
highly of. But if you go back to Dave Ramsey
when Dave was working, he would tell you today that
you should buy a house. That's the number one thing
that you should do. You should own a house, you
should own your property. Well, the problem with that today
is that our wages have increased two x in his lifetime,
but housing prices, well they've increased by nine x in
his lifetime, and so you cannot really afford the same

(03:16):
things that the previous generation thought of. Is totally normal,
and so their construct might not work for our generation.
So one I think it's important to realize that it
is hard out there. Second though, is I think we
got to go back to what Warren Buffett says, which
is be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when
others are fearful, and it's really hard to do. It

(03:37):
hurts in our gut. But today, all around us, things
are starting to go on sale, and what we have
to try to do is figure out during this time period,
how can I start to get a little piece of it.
Housing prices in Austin are down thirty percent. This is
really just since I bought a house a year ago,
and so there is actually sales happening all around us,
and I think we got to be prepared for it.

(03:57):
But before we can buy things, we got to have
enough money to do it, and we got we got
to kind of know a little bit about money in
order to make more of it. So I think we
should talk about too. Yes it's hard right now, Yes
things are in sale. You are not crazy, but you
can make money in any market. And one of my
favorite quotes from Baron Rothschild, one of the richest guys
in the world, you know, creator of industry in the

(04:18):
US is by when there's blood in the streets, even
and especially when the blood is your own. And so
that is a hard visual way to realize that actually
real money is made when the market feels tough.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Yeah. So actually, right now, even though the market is tough,
we shouldn't be discouraged and waiting for the market to
be good. This should be the time that we actually
doubled down and listen to your advice.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean, think about it. I was looking at
an NFT yesterday that was sold for sixty million dollars
in the height of the NFT land. It is worth
nineteen thousand dollars today, sixty million to nineteen thousand. It
felt good during that time, didn't it. Everybody was like,
we're making money, We've got all this extra stuff. But
what actually happened is we bought things at overpriced assets

(05:02):
and now we're left with assets that are underpriced. The
opposite happens in this market. And so right now is
the time I think to put up your little spider
sense and start saying, well, everybody else is panicking, where
can I start to make some smart moves? Because there's
always money and opportunities, But definitely you want to buy
when things are on sale.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
Should people even be dreaming or thinking about wanting to
own a home anymore?

Speaker 1 (05:23):
I think that owning a home as an investment right
now today is mathematically not a smart decision. For the
first time in my lifetime, the numbers say that homes
today will you have an interest rate of five to
eight percent, You have a three million home shortage in
the US, you have flat wages, and you have this
increase of home prices. The math us is a math

(05:45):
in and so today I don't think you should feel
like you're not an adult, you don't live the American dream,
you're a failure. If you don't buy a house. You
might actually just be really financially intelligent rent and go
negotiate your rent prices right now, by the way, because
there's a lot of excess in the market. They want
to keep you, and you might actually be making an
incredibly smart financial decision. And so don't let people make

(06:08):
you feel bad if you're not doing what the American
dream adult thing used to be. The market's changed.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, you've already shared some really powerful advice for right now,
given the idea that now is a great time to
go and negotiate your rent. Now's a great time to
go and think about finding places to potentially purchase property
if you are what should be people thinking about doing
right now when it comes to making money that you
couldn't have been doing a year ago. That's very different now.

Speaker 1 (06:35):
Yeah, that's a great question. Well, first, what I would
think about today is I think you got to first
understand some like baseline financial literacy. And you and I
were talking about this. You know, they say the average
American reads at a sixth grade reading level. They say
the average American actually understands finances at about a high
school level. So we're taught, and you remember this in
high school, we're taught all the way up to like

(06:57):
budgeting like back in our day. Probably the kids will
do it this way anymore. But you used to have
checkbooks right now and everybody knows how old I was,
and you have to like balance your checkbook and how
do you do that a little ledger? That's actually where
we're capped. And so I think first what I want
people to do is realize that if you don't understand money,
you're never going to make more of it, because understanding
money is like speaking a language. How are you going
to speak to somebody in Spanish and communicate and win

(07:20):
at that relationship? If you guys don't speak the same language,
it's very hard, right, So I want people to speak
the language of money. So I think about this in
like small ways. Let me tell you, like one way
to know if you're financially literate today. One way might be,
do you really understand the difference between debit and credit
cards and why you should really never be using debit cards.
Everybody talks these days about how credit cards are bad, right, Well,

(07:42):
credit cards are bad if you don't pay off your
payment every single month, if you allow big interest rates
to stockpile, and if you use it as a I
want things as opposed to I need things. Credit cards
are bad, but debit cards are actually worse. They don't
allow you to build credit, and credit good credit in
this country is the underpinning of wealth. Debit cards do

(08:03):
not allow that. They also don't give you any points
or perks or cash back, and then you're less protected
actually with a debit card. So if somebody steals your
debit card and goes and charges things, the bank goes,
I don't know, that's your money, don't really care. If
you go and you charge a bunch of things on
your credit card and there's fraud, what do you do?
Two clicks? They erase it, right, they ship you a
new card. And so I think this generation was so

(08:25):
tormented by credit is bad, debt is bad. Don't have it? Well,
the people who are the richest in the world, they
all have some debt, just good debt as opposed to
bad debt. So where I want you, guys to start
is actually before you even think of making more money,
let's understand the language of money, right.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
So glad we're stying there. It's brilliant. And I had
personal experience of this. So I grew up in London,
where it's not the same setup, similar, but it's not
exactly the same. The whole structure is not based on
credit as strongly, and I was trained to believe you
only use a debit card, and so I used that
my whole life. When I came to the US and
I moved here. For the first year I lived or
I only lived, and I didn't have a lot of money,

(09:03):
so I was living just on a debit card. And
then when I wanted to finally get a car, I
was thinking about, you know, having an apartment, whatever it was.
I couldn't get anything because I had no credit score.
My credit score was like nonexistent, and it hit me
like a ton of bricks because I couldn't believe it
that I'd finally done good with my life, but I

(09:24):
couldn't actually exercise any of it. So walk me through
the myths about credit cards and debit cards that people
can solve right now. Is there a special credit card
they should be getting, is there one that's better? What
should they be looking out for? What does APR mean?
You know, walk me through the hidden things buying credit
cards that we all feel stupid about. When you see

(09:46):
an ad and you're like, I have no idea what
that means.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
Yeah, it's so true.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
You know.

Speaker 1 (09:49):
I had an employee, actually Christian, who's in from the
UK too, and we were ridiculing him merstally actually because
he only had a debit card to pay for things,
and I didn't even know that the U K was
completely different.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
No, they're all credit cards, but it's not he said,
it's not normal.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I was like, you're a twenty eight year old man.
You don't have a credit card. He was like, you
need to travel more Cody, and I was like, sorry,
but then we got him a credit card so he
could start establishing credit here. But more of the story
is here's I think the couple first steps to financial freedom.
You know, if you want to set up your kid
for success, you actually want them to get a credit
card really early. Does it so much matter what type
of credit card. I'm not like the points guy, where

(10:26):
I like to operationalize and optimize every aspect of a
credit card. I think that is almost more work than
trying to make more money. But I think if you
go from any of the major banks, there are a
lot of rules around credit cards, so they're really not
allowed to mess with you so much on interest rates.
There's a lot of protections for consumers, so it don't
stress too much about which one. Which one seems like
it has some night perks for you and you can

(10:46):
get the most amount of money that you need. Cool.
So that's step one. And if you can do that
for your kids when they're in high school, they will
actually have more access to the first pillar I think
of wealth, which is resources. We all know what's the
saying takes money to make money, right, And so if
you come from nothing. Well, you can start actually building
up your resource pile just from your credit, which you

(11:09):
can start at a young age. You don't need to
be rich to do that. And then after resources, you
pile on knowledge. Right, the rich pass on how to invest.
We need to start doing that to our next generation.
Then you pass on wealth accumulation. That's where you start
to pile on your own money. And then finally you
pass on the ability to invest to continue to move
cyclically your money around and make it work for you.
But that's where I would start. It's like you start

(11:31):
with a credit card. You have a debit card really
just because you want to get cash out sometimes if
you go into the club and buying drinks or whatever
people do these days that are cooler than me. And
that's where I would start, and then I would move
to this next level of Okay, if I have some credit,
now we need to focus on earning. So how do
I make more money? But I think most people skip
that first step because credit is scary, and like listen,

(11:54):
Charlie Munger, Warren Buffett's partner, obviously very famous dude. But
here's a line I love, which is men only go
broke by three things, and it's whiskey women and leverage,
and leverage means debt, right. Warren Buffett gave him a
little adage to it at the end, and he goes,
I think, actually, what my friend meant to say was

(12:14):
really just the last one. It's really just leverage. And
Warren Buffett, one of the richest guys in the world,
said he doesn't like debt. Here's the problem, Jay, He's
highly levered. He has a massive amount of debt. Why
because he has debt on assets and other people's things
as opposed to personal guarantees on his own. He's not
mortgaging his house to buy these companies. He is raising

(12:36):
debt on a company in order for it to make
more money. And So if you don't understand all that
right now, that's where I want you to dive in
a little bit more. Maybe you can start with a
debitan into credit card.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Yeah. No, I think it's so important to understand debt.
And you see that when you see a celebrity buy
a new home and you realize they borrowed to buy
that home. They didn't buy it in cash, even though
they have the cash, and it's a available to them.
And I think that idea is so foreign. So if
someone's thinking about starying a business right now, well wants
to grow a business, And the number one thing you

(13:07):
hear is, well, I don't have any money. I don't
have to fund it. How much do you actually need
to start a business?

Speaker 1 (13:13):
I think you never suffer from a lack of money.
You suffer from a lack of knowledge on how to
get money. The richest people in the world they never
use their own money entirely to buy things. And if
you can like sit on that for a second and
let that sit in, then I think you can really
open up your eyes to the fact that all around
you there are deals right now, and there is money
that is waiting for the actually rarest of things, which

(13:34):
is a human who wants to work really hard and
has a good idea where to put the money. And
so you actually don't need money to start a business.
I don't think you need it at all. What you
need is some access to it. And so you know,
next week I'm going to the SBA, the Small Business Administration,
and they just ran out all of these new programs
for new business owners where they will one do grants

(13:55):
where they give you money and grant means you take
this money, you don't have to give it back. The
government is going to give it to you, maybe because
you're a minority or a woman or have a core
needs business. They also do a ton of loans. You know,
they'll loan you ninety percent of the purchase price of
a business if you need one. And all around us
are also people who want to invest and so like

(14:16):
there's a website called percent and on percent. If you
have a small business and you need some debt for
a small business, you can actually get debt from your
small business through you know website. But I think the
most important part is not just tactically, It's like, can
I change my belief to believe that money is all
around me and I do not need to have only
my own money in order to get rich, and I

(14:36):
want more people to think that way. It's hard, I
get it.

Speaker 2 (14:39):
Do you think everyone needs a side us right now?

Speaker 1 (14:41):
I have two thoughts. One, I do not believe that
you have to go all in on the thing that
you want to do in life. I think that is
told to you by people who had survivorship bias. Like
it worked for me, so it's going to work for
you and what do we know to be true? Ninety
percent of startups fail over any five year period, and
so I actually think that the way to never have
risk in building a business. If you want to do

(15:02):
a startup and have no risk, I think you keep
your job. You do really well at that job while
you're doing it, you use your salary to fund your
side hustle or your next venture. You keep moving forward
on it until your side hustle matches the cost of living,
that you have your cash flow, and then you leave
your business or your job to go start your business
once you have enough money from inflow of the business.

(15:26):
And I think we've told too many people and idealized
this idea of entrepreneurship when in fact, you know, I
had three or four businesses fail. If I had just
left my job that paid me good money, I would
have been sleeping on somebody's couch. And so you can
have a side hustle, but please keep it on the
side for a minute until you make sure it's not
just a passion project it is a profit project.

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Yes, yeah, And I think that's dismised wisest advice. I'm
in the same boat when I started doing what I
do today. I had a full time job. It didn't
pay great, but it paid enough to get buy It
paid my bills. It means it means I wasn't creating
from a place of stress. And when you're creating something
new from just stress, it can be quite dehabilitating. Now,

(16:11):
sometimes stress can be the greatest motivator. It can propel you,
it can be your launch pad, but you've got to
kind of get it right. Too much stress and you
fall apart. Too little stress and you stay in the
golden handcuffs.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (16:22):
And I think that's where I see a lot of
people stuck today. Is I meet a lot of people
who I feel have tied on the golden handcuffs but
not using that as the investment. So it's like, I
want to have a lifestyle with the money I make,
I don't want to use it to build a new life.
Does that make sense?

Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yes? Well, I mean, and you know, there's a lot
of data out there that actually backs that. There was
a study that was done on should you leave your
job to do a startup or should you stay in
your job and do your startup at the side, And
what the data tells us from hundreds of individuals that
went through this is you have a thirty three percent
higher likelihood of your startup succeeding if you have an
income source while doing it, because we make better decisions

(17:02):
when we're not in flight or fight, when we can
actually sort of downregulate. You know all about this, thankfully,
there's so many tools like what you do that teach
people how to downregulate, and sometimes you can't control it.
But if you can control that, your decision making is
better by keeping an income source. Oh my gosh, why
wouldn't you, Because being a CEO is really, in my opinion,

(17:23):
it's like three things. If you want to be a
great CEO, it is number one, you have to be
able to sell a dream so big that other talent
wants to come alongside you they think that their vision
is bigger under yours. Then number two, you have to
make great diagnoses what's happening in the world around us,
just like a doctor would to understand what's good or bad.

(17:45):
And then you have to have great decision making on
top of the diagnoses. And so if you can hire
great talent diagnose well, but you make bad decisions because
you're scared. That's not going to lead to the successful startup.

Speaker 2 (17:57):
In my experience, I love those top three qualities of CEO.
I wanted to ask you the opposite. What allows an
employee to be great and make more money as an employee?

Speaker 1 (18:07):
If you want to make more money as an employee.
Number one, you have to understand how much money you
make the company today. If you don't understand what your
value dollar amount is you bring into your business, you
should probably go talk to your boss and say, hey,
I'd like to understand how I make you money. If
you had to quantify how I make you money, could
you help me understand that. One your boss is gonna

(18:28):
be like, this is amazing, nobody's ever asked me this before.
And then two, Once you understand that, you need to
figure out how could I make more money for the company.
Once you can understand how you can make more money,
you can say, well, what do you think the profits
of this business are? If we bring in one hundred
dollars sale, do we keep twenty bucks of it? And
if I figure that out, then I can go, Okay,
I made you one hundred bucks, we kept twenty of it.

(18:51):
If I do that, could I keep five of that twenty?
I brought you and then you actually know how to
negotiate for your salary. And a lot of times this
isn't always possible if you're in a big corporate job,
but more often than not, there is money available for
those who understand how to ask for it because they've
earned it.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
I love that that step by step process is so
brilliant because you're so right. If someone ever came up
to me and said, how do I make money? And
how do I make you more money? Yeah, oh my gosh,
it's like the best thing ever because it's so often
not thought about and you don't realize. And like you said,
there may be certain companies where you can't have that conversation,
but today I feel like there's just so many more

(19:30):
spaces to actually have that connection that you.

Speaker 1 (19:33):
Can yeah, you know, and think about it from your
boss's perspective, like they hires you for a reason because
they thought that you would make their life easier and
that you would make the business better. And I think
a lot of times you leave your job before you
get all of the money out of your job you
could have, and I did this so often in the beginning.
I think you'd make way more money if you thought

(19:56):
that you could have a conversation with your boss and say, man,
this isn't exact working how I thought it would be.
I think I could be of use over here as well.
I'd love some additional responsibility here, maybe less here. You know,
could I make you more money over here? If I
prove myself here? Could we do less here? You leave
the devil that you know for the devil that you
don't often, and when that happens, I think you actually

(20:18):
lose more money than you anticipate. It used to be
back in the day, you made about twenty to twenty
five percent more money every time you job hopped to
the next job. These days, I actually think that there
is a real value you can have to increase your
salary or overall pay by more like twenty five to
fifty percent if you stay and you diagnose as opposed

(20:39):
to you skip, and then you guess yes. And so
I would highly recommend that you not do what I
did at the beginning of my career, which was skip, skip, skip,
and never give the place a chance to pay me more. Yeah,
because they might want.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
To absolutely And what you miss when you skip is
you actually miss the skills of negotiating, upmanaging, learning new
skills and abilities at that place. You're so right, and
it's so I mean, you're so vulnerable for even saying that,
because you know you've done so phenomenally well. But it's
such a good lesson for people to understand because in

(21:15):
the carrot of a couple of extra whatever it may be,
you're moving across, but you're actually losing the skills. One
thing I painted up recently which I haven't fully presented
to my team yet, but it's been something i've been
putting together for how and I know you have something
on this too, so I want to share mine with
you to get your thoughts on it. I've been building
this framework of how to talk to my team about

(21:38):
what helps you grow at the company, and I used
a very very simple analogy and metaphor of beginning at
the bricklayer. So the bricklayer is usually at the level
with which you come in, and the bricklayer knows I
have to lay this brick and I've got to lay
it next to this one, and I know the pattern,
and I can lay a brick. Maybe I can build

(22:01):
a wall. Maybe the next level up is a builder
you actually know how to build a wall. You know
how to paint the wall, you know how to put
up scaffolding, you know how to connect walls. You can
do a bit more, and you're a builder. Above from
that is something I call the architect. Now, the architect
is not just good at building a wall. They could

(22:21):
actually go and build me and design me a new
part of the business, an extension of something, a new idea,
And that's how I want people to grow. And then
the highest stage that have come to is the city planner.
This person's not just building me one home. They're planning
the whole city, of the ecosystem of how everything falls
into place. And so I'm communicating this to my team

(22:42):
now because I'm like, I want all of you to
graduate from bricklayers to builders, to architects to city planners.
And that is what's attached to more money. It's not
more effort. It's not more work. It's not being more busy,
it's not doing more stuff off. These will come with
a different type of vision, They come with a different

(23:03):
strategic element, they come with more care, they come with
a wider scope. It isn't just about oh but I
worked more hours this year or I put in more time.
Didn't you see how much effort I put in? And
I think those things don't necessarily result in more successful
a company. What's your thoughts on that?

Speaker 1 (23:20):
I think it's perfect one. You know, we all want
to feel like we can see a future at an organization,
and I think we all want to make money, but
we also really want to know that we're getting better
and we want to know that we're going to get
rewarded for all the hard work we're going to put
in over the long term. And so if you can
show people a vision for the future, I think that's incredible.

(23:41):
I totally agree. We also talk about it as and
this isn't quite the same because the up bricklayer is
in many ways just as important as the city planner.
And so one other way we talk about it is
called the NPC ladder, and we sort of talk about
you know how there are video games, right, and in
the video games you have the NPCs, which are sort
of these people that sort of stay in the same

(24:02):
spot and repeat the same things, like you know, find
the dragon, find the dragon, and some people choose to
kind of stay in the same spot and to stay
as an NPC for much of their life and not
to move to each level of the game where you
become not the main character. Next you're a supporting cast member,
you know, and then you might be one of the
main characters, and then you might be the protagonist, et cetera.

(24:22):
And so at the very top of my best performers,
where I say the people who will be paid the
most maybe eventually get equity, well, they're the main characters.
And that means that they actually change the script, they
move forward the company overall. And so I love that,
and I think, you know, for most of us, there's
a saying that you don't leave bad jobs, you leave
bad leaders, and so I like to try to remember

(24:45):
that often in my companies that when somebody leaves, that's
a reflection on me and my team, that they didn't
see a way for them to become a city planner,
and that they didn't see a way for them to
come to the next level. I do think about that often.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
It's almost like it's a validation of all of these
are needed. But there's a ladder, yeah, and the ladder
isn't just more time and more work now, which often
is the mistake.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Well, I think you're you're really right. I mean, today,
I think there's a culture of there's a hustle culture
that happens about hard work will equal wealth, and that
is actually not true at all. And we have seen
over time, if hard work would equal wealth, then the
person who runs my laundromat would make just as much
as Jeff Bezos. And we know, you know, there's an
incredible video out there that I can't remember who did it,

(25:30):
but it basically shows, for the sixty seconds that Jeff
Bezos is in the video, how much money Jeff Bezos
is making every single second as he walks around the factory.
And it shows that he makes let's say, I don't
know x millions of dollars per second. And so by
the time my laundromat owner has picked up his coffee
put it in his mouth, Jeff Bezos has already lapped

(25:51):
him multiple times for the year. Now, why Jeff doesn't
work as hard as the guy who's laying actual bricks
or actually cleaning the roof. And so I think we
have to ask ourselves, if this idea of just work harder,
what's your work ethic? That's not true anymore, especially in
the age of AI. You know, the more I think
about AI as a total normy, I'm not a big

(26:12):
tech person. I'm almost like Boomer, incapable in many ways
with tech. But the more I think about it, the
more I think it will enable all of us to
have massive knowledge. And because we'll all have massive knowledge,
we will actually have to perform better because everybody will
be able to do a mid level execution, very few
people will be able to stand out amongst the noise.

(26:33):
And we're already seeing this forty seven percent increase in
creators just this year online. So why because it's so
much easier now to go bang bam boom put it
on the internet. So that's going to be everywhere, which
means that going forward, just doing a lot more, just
working a lot harder, won't be what changes it. What
will taking a moment to look at what do I

(26:55):
know different than anybody else? How do I increase my
knowledge stack? And how do I get really creative in
a world of lack of creativity but mass production? And
so I love to involve Ravikan's line, which was, in
this world today, you don't want to work like a cow.
You don't want to work continuously sort of grazing non
stop like this. You want to be the lion. You
want to have periods of sprint and rest, sprint and rest,

(27:17):
and that will be what the top performers do.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
Yeah. Absolutely so, well said. Is passive income a myth?

Speaker 1 (27:24):
Well, passive income is a tax statement. So like the
actual words passive income versus active income are real per
the government. But is passive income in the fact that
I will make money if I do nothing, and I
take X amount of risk and X amount of my
money in order to do something. No, that's a total lie.
And I think anybody who tells you that this will

(27:46):
be completely passive income, there's a red flag, immediate red flag.
I mean, I own a bunch of venting machines. Vening
machines are often something people call passive income. Let me
tell you what's not passive A veny machine. They break
all the time, people break into them. They don't make
that much money per machine. And also they make a
ton of money on aggregate, and they're great for many

(28:07):
things once you have hundreds of them or thousands. But
there's no such thing as passive income. And once you
know that, I think you also can recognize do you
want passive income. Is that what you really want or
do you just want a job that you love, that
pays you well, that like lights that fire inside of you.
I think we want passive income because we hate what

(28:27):
we do, Because eighty seven percent of Americans don't like
what they do for a living. They don't like who
they work with, and so why would they want to
do more of it? Please give me passive income. But
I don't think that's actually what we want. We just
want something that really speaks to us.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from
our sponsors and back to our episode. Do you think
people can do what they love and make a lot
of money or are those ideas disconnected.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
I think that anybody tells you you should follow your
passion in order to make money is probably already rich
and it sounds really nice actually, and so they're like,
of course, follow your passion. Well, even somebody like we
both know some of the founders of Airbnb. You're closer
with them than I am. But like you know Joe
and Austin, he would say that he was incredibly passionate
when he started Airbnb, But was he like passionate about

(29:17):
I don't know home design of his like you know,
mattress on the floor, Like, no, what was he passionate about.
He found some game that he loved to play in
the game of business. And it probably could have been
a lighting company that he had, or a painting company
or Airbnb. He just learned to love the game. So
where I think people get it wrong is learn to
love the game. Don't try to obsess on your passions.

(29:39):
We try to turn like painting that we do or
underwater basket weaving or whatever our weird hobby is into
our profits. And that's where you go really really wrong.
And in fact, there's a lot of data to support this.
I mean, we have something called the Boring Sexy Matrix
that essentially it kind of looks like, you know, two
lines and then a charted graph that shows you the
more boring industry, the higher the income, and so especially

(30:04):
in Hollywood. In fact, there's an incredible study that shows
in SAG after the Hollywood Union, there's one hundred and
eighty seven I believe, one hundred and eighty seven thousand
members of this union, and of those, more than eighty
percent of them do not qualify for health insurance, which
means that they don't make enough money to even qualify

(30:25):
for health insurance. The average income is like twenty three
thousand dollars for an actor in LA And so what
does that tell you when you want to try to
be a clooney or you want to try to be,
you know, a famous Brad Pitt. Most people make no
money from it. You'd be way better off going to finance,
where ninety nine percent of the people earn one hundred

(30:45):
percent of their income from their job than in acting,
in which it appears that less than twenty percent of
people make their full income from this job. And I'm
not trying to dissuade anybody from doing things that you love.
I might just be pushing to even say, how could
I be more creative about this? Yeah, if I love
to act, where is their money around the world of

(31:06):
acting that I could go grab and still integrate the two?
But does it have to be this preordained sexy role?
And I think the answer is no. You're a perfect
example of it. That's how podcasts were born, you know.
It was like these people who wanted to maybe have
talk shows, who wanted to interview people, and we said
we could do it. Here instead of a studio, and

(31:27):
you change an entire industry.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
I wanted to talk show so bad. It's such a
good example, and I love that. Yeah, who like that was?
You know? I grew up watching Oprah Big fan, and
I was like, how would it be to sit down
with people and to have a talk show and all
the rest of it. And then you realize no one's
giving you a talk show, and unless your talk show
is really really significant, no one's making any significant money

(31:50):
and no one's giving you a talk show. That's the
reality of it. There's only ever like three daytime talk
show hosts that are successful and maybe three late night
talk show that are successful. And then everyone else, like
you said, same as acting, ninety seven percent of people
nine nine percent of people don't have that. And when
you do what you love, like, so do I love interviewing,

(32:11):
Yes I do. But I love the distinction you made
because I think there's a difference between a hobby and
a skill. So, and you just said it, You literally
just said it. So I love soccer. Soccer is my
first love. It's one of my favorite hobbies. I love
talking about it, I like playing it. I like FIFA,
like on the PlayStation, Xbox, whatever I'm in. If I

(32:34):
tried to become a soccer player, it would never have happened.
Like I'm not good enough, not even close. And sure
I could have found a way to maybe get into
coaching or maybe whatever. But to be honest, it's a hobby.
It's something I love talking to my friends about that
doesn't have to be the thing that I monetize or
that I build into my offering to the world. And
I love the difference because I think when we hear

(32:55):
the word passion, we confuse hobby for skills, and then
you go, wait a minute, no, my hobby's painting. I'm
not the best painter. Let me be honest. And I
think I've never heard someone say that before. I've never
had that clear clarification. So thank you for making that
crystal clear.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Yeah, it's really you know, I heard Michael Dell the
the it was I think it was in Michael Dell's book.
He said somebody was asking him why he wanted to
take his company back because he had kind of had
it pulled away from him him. Another big investor basically
got into the scuffle and somebody was asking him, why
do you still care about Dell. You're a billionaire many
times over, you're super successful. Why don't you just let

(33:31):
this go? And he says, I will care about this
company after I am dead. He loves the game. He
was so obsessed with Dell that you couldn't pry it
out of his cold, dead hands. And I think about
that often. I think, you know, you couldn't make me retire,
no matter how much money you gave me. Why are
there many days where the game of entrepreneurship is so

(33:53):
brutal that I do think what am I doing? I
don't have to keep doing this? Why do I do it?
But I love the game?

Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (33:59):
And I think if we can instill in more young
people a love for the game, then they will realize
that it is the most fun thing that you can
do when you get a chance. And that's also how
you know if the thing you're doing is what you
should be doing. Like famously, when the two Steve Steve
Jobs and Steve Wozniak were first starting out, they were
at I think it was a Tory the company that

(34:20):
they were at. Anyway, they're at another tech company and
yeah it was and Jobs. Do you remember the story
where Jobs said the only way that I'm coming to
work here is if I can sleep here too. And
the founder, as a normal founder it probably would do,
is like that's weird, No, you can't do that. But
he realized that they were so good, they were so obsessed,
that their outperformance meant that he should let them be weird,

(34:42):
and so we let them stay there, which was like
a little problematic because I hear Steve was a little smelly.
But like, top performers are really just people who are
obsessed with the game. It's not that you have to
have crazy IQ, it's not that you have to have
a crazy skill set. It's really hard to beat the
compounding thing that is obsession. And I think that's should
open up for some people a realization that you could win.

(35:03):
You could beat a Jay and a Cody if you're
more obsessed with something than we are.

Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh for sure. And what I've learned is that in
order to love the game, you have to respect the rules.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Oh and what I.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Found it's like playing Monopoly. Everyone knows Monopoly, so I're
used as an example. It's like playing Monopoly. You know,
you have to have a three set in order to
build homes. Once you build four, homes on one street,
you can then upgrade it for a hotel. That is
the rule of how Monopoly works. Now, you play with
some people and they'll say, well, I don't like that.
I just want to be able to build on even

(35:37):
if I have one of the sets, Or why do
I have to build four houses to build a hotel.
I should just be able to build a hotel. And
I see this in real life too, where we start
saying things like well, I don't like the social media
algorithm because it's not fair, and it's like, it isn't fair,
but it is the rule, and so if we hate
the rules, you can't love the game. And I see
that over and over again, where it's like, well, Jay,

(35:59):
but this isn't or this isn't right, or it should
be like this or new thing, and I'm like, I
get it, Like I actually empathize with that, and I
validate you. I feel the same way. But in order
to love the game, you have to respect the rules.
And so figure out the rules that you figured out
the rules of vending machines, you figured out the rules
of different businesses that you've built, and once you know

(36:20):
the rules, you can play the game just like monopoly,
and I think that's what it takes. So what would
you say, are the rules of some interesting businesses or
even business in general, or money that you think people
need to learn to respect.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
I think the number one rule if you want to
be successful today is that there's really there's two type
of people. One type of person will be really successful
and one type of person will never be successful until
they change their mentality. And we call these fixers verse freeloaders.
A fixer is somebody who if you imagine there's a
leaky boat right and there's all these holes in it,

(36:56):
the fixer will be the one that starts actively thinking, okay,
we've got some you know, putty over here, We're going
to put it on here, We're actually going to start
bailing things out over there. They realize that there is
a problem. The problem is annoying. They probably didn't create
the problem, The problem might actually be somebody else's fault entirely.
And yet what do they do. They immediately go into
fix mode. And then there's the freeloader. And we can

(37:18):
all have a little component of this, but a freeloader
is so common today. The freeloader is the one that's
standing in the boat, and they might be saying, well,
you know, I don't mind the holes, or that's what
somebody else's issue, or I don't have time to fix that,
or I don't really know what to do about that.
And if you go through your life with this freeloader mentality,

(37:38):
if somebody else will fix it all the time, well
then somebody else will profit all the time. I've really
had to right, I've had this realization lately that every
time I find a problem in my business, that's where
the profit is. Every time I have a problem in
my life, that's where the money is.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Oh that's so good.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
And so if I can just start not having that
sinking feeling in my stomach when I find a big,
hairy problem and instead say oh that means there's money there,
that means there's opportunity there, that means there's growth there,
then my worldview kind of changes. And you know, when
we came in here, we were just talking and I
was like, oh God, I'm having a week because I
you know, I got this one business and we're growing

(38:17):
really fast, and that sounds cool, except that when you
grow really fast, there's all these issues. There's people issues,
and there's business issues, and so I'm in it right now,
and yet I always try to make myself go back
and say, it's my fault that we're here, and that
actually is really liberating because if it's my fault, that
means that I also might be able to fix it.

(38:38):
If it's somebody else's fault, then what am I going
to do about it? And so as often as possible,
be a fixer and not a freeloader. It's where the
money is.

Speaker 2 (38:46):
I really like that, and that's true whether you're a
team player, whether you're an employee, whether you're the owner,
whether you're looking at a new opportunity. It's true for everyone.
That's why I love it so much, because you could
be on a team and going, well, where is my
seat is greatest pain point? Whereas my manager's greatest pain point?
And if I can solve that and we're clear on it,
that could be the greatest opportunity for me to grow

(39:07):
my career one.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Hundred percent, you know, And if you really want to
grow and earn a lot, I think one of the
greatest things that you can do is go find a
leadership team and a leader that you think you want
to be like and that you like their trajectory. I mean,
I think you should try to get on as many
rocket ships as you can, and you should really stay
away from like the pta mom bus, you know, in life,

(39:31):
I think often we want the smooth ride, we want
the certain ride, we want the sliding doors. We want
to be on a little, nice, little minivan. And what
we realize is that minivans don't go fast, and minivans
will probably not be the winner of a race, but
winning comes with all the prizes. So I think, wherever
you can, you should try to get on the rocket ships.

(39:52):
And then when you get on the rocket ship, you
got to realize rocket ships have turbulence, they're bumpy, they
go fast, things break. You can't be surprised when you
want to be an astronaut and there's turbulence on the
way up. And so, you know, I think there's two
things that I didn't do early enough on in my career. Was, gosh,
I really should have tried to get on more rocket
ships fast, bumpy, messy, big problems. Oh my gosh. But

(40:16):
we're going to the moon, and I should stay away
from the normal, you know, mom bus life. That's super,
super smooth, because when I'm young, man, I don't need this.
I need this once I got kids and once I
got a bunch of responsibilities. But in the beginning, I
should be trying to take all the rides I can.
And so if I was young and hungry, I would
be trying to find a jay. I would be trying

(40:37):
to find teams where they are moving and I want
to learn from them.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, it's such great advice. And I look back and
I think as well that I had that same spirit then,
and I probably didn't seek out people like that enough.
I got lucky with a couple of examples, and I
remember it could happen anyway. I remember being I used
to work at a grocery store, and you know, stacking
shelves and whatever. But I was always trying to f
that on a weekend, you can make a time and

(41:02):
a half. On a holiday, you could make time and
a half. If I worked a few extra hours, you'd
make You know, you're always trying to figure out what
the rules are, as I was saying earlier, and I
think your spot on that if you can jump on
a place where your role is not perfectly defined, you
get to do lots of stuff you get to take
more on. When I was at Accenture, which is a

(41:22):
global consulting firm million employees now globally, it used to
be five hundred thousand when I was there, they actually
had this really great setup where every year they asked
you to learn one professional skill, one personal skill, and
then one skill that you were just fascinated by. And
it was really interesting because it was always encouraged that

(41:42):
you needed all three. And I loved that about the
workplace because it was almost like, what's your extra curricula?
So you did your day job, but what did you
do in the evenings? So my evening job at my
company was teaching meditation. So I was bringing my passion
into work. What did it do? Hit onlp me network more,
help me connect with people deeper, help me learn about

(42:03):
different parts of the company that I would never have
got to see if I wasn't teaching meditation. I had
a friend who was a photographer outside of work. We
were consultants by day, but he brought photography into work.
He would photograph all the major events. He'd take headshots
of our CEO, he'd take headshots of our CMO. All
of a sudden he's networking inside the company in a

(42:23):
way that you never would before. And so it's so
interesting when you take on new responsibilities which are based
on your passions, even in the workplace, because you never
know where they can go.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
Oh yeah, and there's something really contagious about somebody who
is hyper passionate with the things that they do for
a living. I mean, so many studies that show that
humans are contagious.

Speaker 2 (42:44):
You know.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
I was reading something the other day that said, if
you want to make more money, the fastest way you
can do it is actually just by who you surround
yourself with. And so there is actually a correlation between
if you have more friends who make over one hundred
thousand dollars, you have a ten percent increased like of
making more money, and somewhere between a two point nine
I believe in a five percent higher likelihood of investing more.

(43:06):
This is just like Jay stays the same, Cody stays
the same, but I hang out with a few people
who have more cash, I start making more money and
investing more. That's wild, but if you think about it
makes all the sense in the world. Imagine you wanted
to lose weight, and so what did you do you
went and hung out with a bunch of people who
partied all the time, who ate late night food, who
were drinking constantly, who slept in late, who are more

(43:26):
lethargic because of it, Or you went and hung out
with crossfitters that don't drink, that work out every day,
that already have six pack apps. Jay is the same person,
Cody's the same person. I choose the group that parties,
you choose the group that crossfits. Who do you think wins?
It's the people that you surround yourself with. And so gosh,
people are contagious in every sense of the word. If
you hang out with people that are passionate and obsessed

(43:49):
and moving forward, it's just going to be easier for
you to do the same thing.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
Oh it's so good, it's so true, And I just
you know how simple it is when you start doing it.
But I feel like we're all so scared of like
letting our friends down. We think we're you know, sometimes
we also get the backlash, like our friends might be like, oh, yeah,
you just want to be around that person now, you
just want to be successful. Now we're not good enough
for you. And I think all of these things of

(44:13):
what play on people's minds is we don't want to
be bad people, but this isn't being a bad person,
but we kind of carry that around.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
It's very true. I mean like there's like a micro lesson.
So let's say right now, you're trying to save more money.
A lot of the ways when when you're young and
don't have a lot of money that you spend it
is entertainment, right, It's going out with your friends. And
a lot of times when you go out with your friends,
what do you do? Like you guys are eating and
drinking and who's splitting the check and what's happening here.
I think that's a really uncomfortable thing for young people

(44:41):
to do. They're like, I don't know how to have
a conversation with somebody saying I'm really limited my spend
so I know there's six of us and it would
be really awkward. But I'm not drinking tonight and I'm
just going to have this little thing, So do you
mind if I pay for my portion of it? Why
do we worry about doing something like that because people
are going to think we're cheap, They might judge us.
They're gonna think that, you know, we're not all in

(45:01):
it together. And yet how are you going to reach
your goals if you're not willing to do even that
little thing? And I remember back in the day, you know,
when I had no money at all and I couldn't
afford anything. That felt super embarrassing to me. And yet
those micro decisions will help you macro if you do it.
And all it is is expectation setting. I think a
lot of times, if you want people to go along

(45:22):
with something, you just say, Hey, I'm super embarrassed to
bring this up, and it's a little it feels weird
to me, But I'm really trying to save up to
invest and to do this other thing, and I want
to hang out with you guys tonight. Would it make
you so uncomfortable if I asked to just pay for
my portion because I can't keep going out and doing
all this if I have to spend everything. You know
what you're gonna do, You're gonna unlock for somebody else

(45:44):
there who's too afraid to say it and never will
that they feel the exact same way. They're actually like,
oh god, they got me too, because Happy Hour slowly
killing my entire investing budget.

Speaker 2 (45:53):
This is coming up more and more in every conversation
I have right now, if you actually said what you
were worried about, people would actually get it. It's when
you kind of try and do the awkward thing of
not sharing how you feel about it. Like when you
say I'm embarrassed about this, All of a sudden, that
person has empathy. Right. Your confession of embarrassment creates empathy
and compassion in the other person, and then they receive

(46:17):
it with the understanding. Whereas if you just say, hey,
I don't think I'm coming out tonight now, it's like
what's wrong If you now go out and say, oh, yeah,
I'm just going to pay for my thing now, you
could come across as cheap or all the other things
you're worried about. As soon as you're honest about the embarrassment,
the vulnerability insight such a beautiful connection with someone. And
by the way, next time, they may not choose that spot.

(46:39):
They might choose someone that's easier for you. If they're
a good friend, they're actually they're actually walking your direction,
if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Yeah, you give somebody else a chance to actually be
there for you, which I've realized is a real gift.
I'm not so good at that. But you know, if
you can allow another person sort of in man, Wall's
breakdown pretty quick. And then as you make more money,
you can start paying for the other way. Yeah, you know,
and then when you can. That's one of the coolest
parts about having money is then you're like, I got
all this, like, don't worry about it, not want of you,

(47:07):
and you don't have to do it all the time.
You don't have to, you know, big shot people. But
when you're in your growth phase, when you're in your
save phase, just be there. That's okay, that's where you are,
and know that you don't have to stay there. You
can eventually be in your big boy giveaway, buy the bottles,
do whatever you want phase, but you don't have to
pretend like you're not there. And man, that'll really help
too in environments like this where it feels harder to

(47:30):
make money and you feel a little heavy, and you know,
I saw this in business too. I saw this tweet
the other day that I was like, ooof.

Speaker 2 (47:37):
It was a.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Business owner and the tweet was literally a picture of
a really expensive looking dinner and it was like, when
your company's a couple of weeks out from having no cash.
But you know that team morale is really expensive, so
you spend a couple thousand dollars on a dinner for
the team. And I looked at that for a second,
and I don't believe in like posting any criticism on
the internet, so I would never say anything for that
person directly, but I think he's wrong. I think instead

(48:02):
what you really should do as a leader just say, hey,
we're in a period where we need to tighten up
a little bit, and I'd love us to maybe take
an afternoon off, or maybe do something that doesn't cost
the company money, or maybe we could come up with
some cool ideas. We could do a little challenge to
see who could come up with the best idea for
us to do some team building. But I can't actually
afford this couple thousand because it's my duty to protect

(48:24):
your job and to protect your future in this company.
And so even though it would make me look good
to spend a bunch of money, I'm not going to.
And it's scary being in an ownership position when a
business isn't working, it's super super scary, And so it's
okay to also, they don't have to tell everybody everything
all the time. It's not their job to handle your

(48:46):
business stress, but it is okay to tell them some reality.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Cody, there's two big Arizona quiz you on now. I
think there's going to be a lot of great stuff.
I'm going to let you choose which one we start with.
One is money and dating and relationships, and the other
is the basics of investing. When someone is starting with little,
where do you want to go first?

Speaker 1 (49:07):
I want to start with something really random, which is
so there was an interesting study I saw the other
day that shows how you can predict if a recession
is coming through the way that women buy beauty products.
And so it's called the lipstick theory. And I was
playing around with this today because I think all of
us are wondering where the economy's going. And basically what
happened is during the this is when the world trade

(49:28):
centers came down. So Estey Lauds, the founder of the company,
basically realized that even though the market had a lot
of fluctuations in it, it was down hugely from the
world trade centers crashing. Lipstick sales were up eleven percent,
and actually a bunch of these like non necessary cosmetics
were up a ton, and so we started looking at why,

(49:51):
and what they realized is when the market really crashes,
you would think people would pull back on things they
don't need, but what they actually do is they pull
back on the big luck and they spend more on
the tiny ones. So it might not be that they
go on vacation that year, but it might be that
they look a little prettier in the mirror every single day.
And so I thought that was interesting because as we're

(50:11):
thinking about recession, what are some of the indicators that
nobody's watching today that could tell us what's happening. And
so one of them is actually, look at a spike
and beauty products. You can also see that by a
spike of the people who are launching them are a
lot of people continuing to buy, which I thought was
kind of interesting, which is which is happening right now? Yeah,
and then you know, the place I think that this
takes us is maybe a little bit more on the

(50:32):
dating side, which is here's some a little tough truth.
It turns out, if you want to make more money,
one of the best things that you can do is
find a partner, which is crazy. So married couples make
on average more than thirty percent more than non married couples.
Their net worth is almost three x someone who is

(50:54):
single over the course of their entire career. And so
I bring this up not to shame anybody who hasn't
found their partner. I know what that's like when you
feel like there's no options and you want to find
love but it's not around you. But why I do
bring it up is because I think it's something that
we should really prioritize. We should prioritize if we care
about making money, and we should prioritize if we care

(51:15):
about love, certainly, and I think it's gotten a bad rap.
Marriage has a bad rap. You do an incredible job
of showing the beauty that can be behind it. Will
also being like sometimes I hate her, Like I with
my husband side was like, oh you today. Really they
got to love you because I want to murder you.
It's a real boon to your financial health. And so
anybody that is around you that is saying I don't

(51:35):
need no man, I'd be better off without him. You know,
they're all toxic. Everybody else is a narcissist that I've dated.
I kind of want to push on your frame a
little bit and say, one, do you think you attract
things that you hate on? Probably not. Two. There's a
lot of reasons why you showing the stability for a
partnership will lead to a more stable life overall. And

(51:56):
so I thought that was that was fascinating.

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Before we die into the next moment, let's hear from
our sponsors, thanks for taking a moment for that. Now
back to the discussion. When I look at successful men,
going back to your earlier point of mentors, any of
the successful men that I've ever been mentored by talk
to me about having a one woman life change their

(52:19):
career trajectory because they found that the less time they
wasted on chasing, pursuing, wooing women, the more time they
had to focus on their career. So, even from the
other side, men who decide to commit to one woman
have more energy, more focus, more drive, more power to
direct towards making money and building a business than they

(52:40):
do when they're trying to impress lots of women or
take care of lots of women. Now, of course, there
are exceptions. There are people who have become very successful
without having a partner, and whatever they may have even
put their love life on the back burner. Sure, but
men who were married were just more who had that
commitment in their.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
Life, which is wild. They say, you're happier too, and
you live longer. Yeah, we're like slightly less happy as well.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
Right, you're dealing with a baby exact. It's funny. Yesterday
my wife said to me because I must have said
to her what I want for dinner, and she goes, well,
this is great training to have a kid. And I
said to yeah. She goes, husband's a great training to
have a kid, and I go, yeah, wife's a great
training to have a teenager. It's just like, it was
just this really funny moment when we were bantering and
I was like, yeah, you're like a teenager, like dealing

(53:25):
with emotions and all this stuff, and you're dealing with
my like baby needs of like hey, can you feed me?

Speaker 1 (53:30):
It's very, very true. I also think, man, if you're like,
I talk more from the women perspective, just because I'm
a chick and so I try to talk about all
the things I know about, but you know, from a
female perspective, there's a lot of things that I think
are wrong in the way we date with money.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
Yeah, that's what I want to get into. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Yeah, Like, for instance, you know, increasingly they say that
sixty four percent of women will not date a man
if he doesn't have the same income level or higher
her for men, that actually, in the studies at least,
does not seem to be the case. They actually don't
care about income level. Well, problem there that more women
are increasing their incomes and increasing their education levels than

(54:13):
men are today. I think there's something darker even than
the six or five trust fund blue eyes thing, which
is we're prioritizing the thing that seems to not lead
to any increase in happiness. Couples are no happier if
they are the same income level or higher or not.
They aren't wealthier if they focus on that than something else.
And so from my perspective, I'm like, man, if you're

(54:35):
a woman today, you know that don't give dating advice.
But the money seems to show that that does not
matter in a relationship. You know, my husband is amazing,
and I was already ran a business when I met him.
He was an avcal. The government doesn't pay very much
for that role, and so he was just playing a
totally different game. He didn't care about money actually at all.
He cared about service and he cared about respect. That's

(54:58):
what he wanted. He wanted to do something served, and
he wanted to do something that commanded respect. I in finance,
was not that much serving, you know, but I was
a lot money, and so when the two of us
came together, it was really really powerful. And so for
women today, a lot of times when they asked me,
how do you know? How do you find a partner?
What do you do if you make a lot of
money and he doesn't like, find somebody who plays a
different game, because then you two can compliment. Did you

(55:19):
both play the same game? Were you both trying to
grow and make money?

Speaker 2 (55:22):
No? No, no, So well, Radi's always been at peace.
She's always been at peace with who she is, what
she has, and her journey was more kind of I
always talk about the aspect of what you mentioned of
being surrounded by more people. So we grew up in
a culture where generally women in our community became housewives
and took care of the kids. That's majority of what

(55:45):
you'd see growing up where I grew up. Now, that's beautiful,
there's nothing wrong with that, And I'm not judging it.
What was interesting was when we moved to New York
and then we moved to La RADI was surrounded by
a lot of our female friends who were all founders,
who built businesses, who've achieved a lot of incredible things,
and they happen to be happy moms and happy wives
as well. Rather being exposed to them almost opened up

(56:07):
to this idea of what women could do, what women
could achieve, what was possible. And she has just come
into her own when she launched her book last year
for the first time, when she launched her podcast last year,
when she's just been growing and finding herself, and I
think she's really loved the journey. It's never been about growth,
it's never been about conquering, it's never been about a destination.

(56:29):
She just loves the fact she can fully express herself
and use her skills to help people. I started with
the same thing. I never had financial goals. I never
knew anyone who is that financially successful. I just wanted
to find a way to help people. And then I
realized you couldn't help people full time if you couldn't
do this full time, so you can have all the

(56:51):
most noble reasons to do what you do. If you
can't pay yourself and pay people to help you do it,
you're not going to do it for that long. So
I had to rewire my relationship with money because I
used to believe that if you were doing good in
the world, you had to be poorow And I had
to completely shift my relationship because I had to understand
that actually, if I wanted to do bigger good in

(57:13):
the world, I needed money because I needed bigger teams,
I needed bigger opportunities, I needed bigger relationships and the
rules of the game. Money gives access to that.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
I come from a Latino culture, and so money was
never really bad. It was bad to talk about it.
You couldn't really talk about money, and it was bad
to maybe have too too much of it. That was like, oh,
they're really rich, so how did they get there?

Speaker 2 (57:35):
Same? You know, I'm very similar.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
Yeah, but my dad, which I'm so grateful and if
I have kids, I hope I can do the same thing.
You know, if you want to be a good father
to a daughter and you want your daughter to be
really confident and have a ton of optionality, I'd model
after my father and what he always said as well,
you could be a princess, or you could also be
the president. You know, you choose, and then he's very cute.

(58:00):
And he also really taught me that money is a
moral It doesn't care. It is a tool. A hammer
is not good or bad except how you use it.
You could use a hammer for really good to build something.
You could use a hammer for murder. Same with money,
And so I had to. I came to the terms
with money in this way because I think that money
is an accelerator to whatever is inside of you. So

(58:20):
if you are not a great person and you want
to do bad things in the world, money is really
bad to be in your hands. If you are a
good person and you want to do good in the world,
money is really good to have in your hands. And
as long as you can stay true to that thing
inside of you, then money is actually just an ability
for you to build the world that you want as
supposed to live in somebody else's.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
You know.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
I watched my brother kind of go through this because
he's never cared really about money or success. I mean,
he got married last weekend and at you, wow, no, thanks,
I'm really excited for him. She's amazing too, and he
said at his speech, He's like, before I'm at Athena,
I used to think that I wanted to just kind
of post up on a beach somewhere, drink beers, like
I didn't really want to build very much out of life.

(58:59):
I want to just chill. And I'd never heard him
say that out loud before. He said, but then I'm
at Athena, and now that's not enough. Now I want
to build something. I want to build for her, I
want to build for our kids. And I just watched
him like turn into a little man, you know, in
front of me, which was incredible, and then also realize
you're made for more. But he is. He sounds to
me like what Roddy sounds like to you, which is

(59:20):
he has always been very comfortable as him. He is
the most him human I've ever met. You couldn't really
peer pressure him into anything. And I have a lot
of respect for people that have that kind of piece.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
Yeah, it's really special. I want. I want to go
back into this, and I know I'm not asking for
dating advice, asking for money advice good, which I think
they go so closely together now. And I love where
we started off. But there's so many things to kind
of unpack with that. Who should pay on the first date?
Men or women?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
In my opinion, I think the person who asks for
the date it pays. I agree, yep. Men versus women. Women,
if you're going to ask them out on a date,
I think the expectation is at least offer. If you're
going to ask somebody out on the date, I think
the expectation is do it. I tend to be a
traditionalist in some ways. I think sort of a high

(01:00:07):
value man wants to support and protect his woman, doesn't
always have to be financially, but in some way, shape
or form, and a high value woman wants to do
the same thing for her man, but probably can't protect
him as much. That's just our physiology, right, And so
that would be my gut reaction now if it's up
to me. I remember back in the day, I did
get asked on a date once and they didn't pay,

(01:00:30):
and it was such a huge turn off for me.
We've stayed friends, but I was like, immediate unsubscribed, we're
never dating. And so it's tough to be a man
in that case in some way today, But if you
were going to date somebody like me, I would expect
you to at least offer if you ask, what do
you think?

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
I think? So I agree with you the person who asks,
the person out in the day should pay. Yeah, And
this wasn't to get you in trouble. I think it's
a real discussion because I think that's what people do.
How you just said, hey, if he didn't pay, he's out,
by the way. And I come from I was raised
by my mom. I have a younger sister, so I
come from a very like i'll do it, I'll take

(01:01:09):
care of it kind of background, and I did when
me and Riley Fest started daying, I used to actually
tutor students for their college and eleven plus exams to
make enough money to take Rady out on a date
to make like twenty towns an hour because I didn't
have any money when we met, and that's how we'd
pay for stuff. I think a lot of men feel, yes,

(01:01:29):
I'll do that once we have some commitment, like once
we're going somewhere today, Like I feel like then, I'm like, well,
why would I do that if we're both figuring this out,
Like I would do that once we both say, hey,
we're exclusive, we're boyfriend and girlfriend. We're in a committed
relationship like this is going somewhere. But if it's like
our first or second day or third day, and we
don't really even know each other, then I kind of

(01:01:50):
want you to come and meet me hot middle because
that's what we're trying to build.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
I mean, I can't imagine I've ever been on a
date where I didn't ask to split it. At least
I think I would weird if you asked to. You know, yeah,
you pick it up all the way. That's a signal.
That's definitely it's a signal. Let's an opt out. But
you know, men, hey, it's a byproduct of the fact
that we have, for the first time in our let's
call it the last two hundred years probably of human existence,

(01:02:18):
men and women are competing for the same thing. This
has never really existed before. I mean, my parents were
the first generation where this started. My grandparents, that was
not an option. So we have to be honest about
the fact that today, men and women, they are competing
for jobs, they are competing for education spots, they are
competing for relevancy, they're competing for being heard places. I mean, heck,

(01:02:39):
in some ways, they're even competing for like necessity to
procreate with all of the modern medicine that's happening. And
so there are going to be rippling side effects from
this that I can't even imagine. And one of them
is that when we say we want to be equal
as women, well then we should think about what that means.
And so I think young men today are very right

(01:02:59):
to say, hey, you know, it's we're equal in every way.
It's a partnership between the two of us. So I
don't believe that we are partners yet. If so facto,
let's split. And I think in life, Chris and I
always have a saying, which is do you want to
be right or do you want to win? And so
my thought is, if you're a young man and you

(01:03:19):
are pursuing a woman that you really like or think
you might like, do you want to be right or
do you want to win? Do you want to be
right in society that yes, she should have split the bill,
but now you have to talk her back into a
second day. Okay, fine, then go that way. If you're
a young woman and you really like the guy and
he is more comfortable with this, do you want to
be right? Or do you want to win? Split the
bill and then tell him at some point, hey, you know,

(01:03:40):
if we're committed to each other, this is important to me.
Can we negotiate it between the two of us. We're
so busy these days pointing fingers at what's right as
opposed to saying what do I want? And then so
what action am I going to take to get there?
In a world in which a lot of guys split bills,
if you have a hard time getting chicks, be a
pretty big upside if you can pick up the bill right.

(01:04:00):
And if you're a woman that can't find a man,
maybe you show the man that you're a true partner.
And like, even if he offers, you say I really
would like to split it, wuld that make you feel comfortable?
I want you to know that in partnership, I believe
in being there for my man. Neither of those are wrong.
They just might help you win.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
Definitely. I love that right and winning. There's a did
you watch that movie fair Play? No? Okay, so there
was a movie last year. I don't think a lot
of people sway. It was kind of like an I
think I don't know if it's a true indie, but
it wasn't. It was on Netflix, but I don't think
it was hugely popular. But it was a dark take
on couple who were both vuying for the same job

(01:04:37):
in a company. It's really good, like it shows. It's
definitely dark and it's definitely extreme, but it just shows
the envy, the competition, how the gender roles have changed,
the expectations women being more talented and educated. And you know,
it's such a good social commentary on where we're at.

(01:04:57):
I wonder how have you found it? Because I meet
a lot of ambitious young women who want to do really,
really well, and they seem to intimidate men today. And
I look at that from the men's perspective, and I
understand that it's new for men. A lot of men
feel left behind. They've inherited the pain of the men
who came before them, who've abused power or used it wrongly.

(01:05:21):
If a woman's ambitious right now, how does she continue
to be ambitious and still find a man that gets
that and respects that. From a financial point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Of view, Yeah, the hard truth that I've found as
a woman, who you could say is hard charging is
that you can't play a man's game and win in
this society, and I'm not sure we should. And so
what do I mean by that? I mean that men
are push push push aggressive, or even our physiology right,
one is receiving and one is certainly given. And so

(01:05:51):
today I think, if you are a young woman who's
really hard charging, you have to think about are you
being ambitious and intimidating? Are you being I'm a bitch?
And I think a lot of times, because we've had
we felt like we have to stand up, we have
to push for ourselves, we're actually just not being that
nice as women. And it's that, you know, you can
go get a girl and you don't need a man,

(01:06:13):
and he's not listening to you, and you know, blah
blah blah. That energy is really negative. Men don't need that.
The two women that I that I know that are
lovely and they're single, and you know, everybody I know
tells them all the time, I can't believe you're single.
You shouldn't be single. But what do they say? Often
one of them who I adore, and I kind of
have given her my opinion on this, but she says

(01:06:34):
all the time, well, I don't want to like mother anymore. Men,
I don't want to mother them like you know what
all these boys like, Well, if you keep calling them that,
then that is what they will be. And so you've
got to be really careful about not demasculating men. And
you've got to be really careful about making sure that
they care about the two things they care about more
of the women do, which is which they care about
respect and you know, women, really we want to be loved.

(01:06:57):
You guys want to be respected, right like buy and
large grow generalization, and so in driving businesses, I have
to remember that all the time. I employment, I just
had a conversation right before this where I steamrolled somebody.
I totally owned the entire meeting. I just kept talking
and I was really aggressive and I lectured a little
bit in the meeting, and thankfully my person in this

(01:07:19):
situation was like, hey, by the way, I felt a
little bit like a lecture, felt like they needed to
be heard, not pushed so much. And I was like, God,
you're right. And that's when like the negative feminine shows
up in my mind, is when we think, let me
just keep going, I'm going to pound on this. So
I would push back on the negative. Are you really
intimidating men or are you being mean? And I think

(01:07:42):
often we are being a little mean, and so we
need to pull that back. Not all men want to
dominate you. You know a lot of men are the
best mentors I've ever had.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
Yeah, And it's that hard part for women because men
for so long have gotten away with pounding the payment right.
So like if a mind behaved in a meaning, would
he get the same feedback? Absolutely absolutely not. He'd just
be told that's normal, and he'd get away with it
and he'd move on. And so it's almost what people
expect of you, and it shouldn't be based on gender.

(01:08:11):
It should be based on your demeanor. Like, for example,
I'm not someone who gets angry or shouts at people
or it's just not who I am, So if I
did it, it would be so out of character that I
think someone would cry. You know. It's like you think
the person who shouts you every day makes you cry. No, no, no,
it's the person who's really silent and calm that if
they lost it, you'd be heartbroken because you don't expect

(01:08:33):
it from them. And I think this all gets difficult
when we're talking about money, because money creates power dynamics
it creates, especially in couples, it creates power dynamics in families.
I mean the amount of friends I've had recently who've
both men and women, have had to ask their partner
to sign a prenup before they get married. And it's

(01:08:54):
been really uncomfortable because you hope that we love each
other and that we would never have to do that.
My friends have talked to me, that's really odd. What's
your take on people having to sign a prenup before
they get married.

Speaker 1 (01:09:05):
I think you should always sign a prenup before you
get married.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:09:08):
I think you should have every hard conversation that you
need to have up front, and that is just another
hard conversation. You know what a prenup will tell you
before you get married is do you guys have the
same vision for life? Do you guys care about the
same things? How do you handle conflict between the two
of you? Can you guys compromise on the important part? So,
even if it's not about the money, like your bank account,

(01:09:30):
is a reflection of how willing you are to have
difficult conversations. The more you delay and the more you
don't have, the less money you'll have. And I think
a prenup is a perfect example. You can take it
as a victim and say, if he's asking me for
a prenup, that means that he does not want to
stay with me, or she does not want to stay
with me, or you could say this is an opportunity
for us to determine what are life will look like

(01:09:52):
together and what is his and what is mine and
what is ours together? And so I am a big
proponent of get that prene up on either side, get
real clear on your finances, and have a crucial conversation
up front. Now that said, I really try to never
give like individualized one on one advice. I'm sure you're
kind of the same. So it's like, here's the big
giant you. But you know, when my brother and new

(01:10:14):
sister in law came to me, they were like, should
you once you get married, should you have a joint
bank account or should you have a separate bank account?
I said, you should have a hard talk first, and
you should ask each other why you want each separate segment,
because what is the real conversation you're having. It's do
I trust your spending? Are we going to communicate well?

(01:10:36):
Are you going to put me in a weird situation.
Are you going to tell me I can't do something?
I'm an adult, don't tell me what I can't do.
And so it's not really about money. It's about can
you get on the same page. Yes, and so forget
the bank account, right, it's really can you have a
hard conversation? And there's no right or wrong. In my opinion,
some people say they still venmo each other their partners
back and forth, and they're like, that's awful. How could

(01:10:57):
you do that? That is the up to you. A
lot of my like you know, big friends in finance
would say, if you get married, you have a joint
bank account, that's what you do. And I would say
even having a joint bank account can be hugely problematic
if you're not willing to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Absolutely no. I love how practical that gets, and I
love how practical you always get because that is what
people are dealing with. And you're right, it's not about money.
It's about power, it's about agency, it's about accountability, it's
about all these other things. But money becomes the central
point of conflict. And you're right, just because you have
a joint bank account doesn't mean you have better compatibility.
That means nothing if you haven't had the hard conversation.

(01:11:35):
And I think having the hard conversation early about money
and expectations is so important. Going back to your earlier point,
which I was thinking about that idea that it's really
important how married couples end up making more money. I
found a lot of people recently looking for a business partner,
not a partner, so like when they're looking for someone

(01:11:55):
to be with, they're kind of seeing, will this person
help me build my business? Which is a really interesting,
you know, difference to what love is. What's your take
on finding a partner or a business partner?

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
That's fascinating. Well, I mean, isn't it funny how everything
just comes full circle. So if we think about the
original contract of marriage, it was business. It was can
your family further my family, and we will come into
contractual agreement one way or the other. Was that way
in India and the UK, It was that way here
in the US, and so that marriage was a business contract,
and in some ways it still really is because it's

(01:12:30):
a government contract and so and then for a long time,
well not that long really, what a generation or two,
it became love it was about love only that's actually
a new construct and so I think it's interesting it's
coming back to this idea of partnership.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
I have a personal bias. I think that you should
marry somebody if you believe that they will help get
you out of a third world prison when you get
in prisoned, you know, is this going to be your
person who will save you in your times of difficulty.
That's to me what a good partnership is. It's trust
this year and with my life implicitly, and I want
to build with them. Yes, I love them, but it's

(01:13:05):
not this like, oh, this victimized like I love them
even if they beat me and if the world you know, ends,
and some of the things we see in books today.
It's like, no, is this my chosen human human who
were going to go through time together and I trust
their ability and who they are. So that's for me personally.
The flip side of that is it's really hard working

(01:13:27):
with your spouse. We both do it in many ways.
My husband runs our investment side of our fund, our
holding company and our Vungure Capital fund. And our first
hardest year together was our first year of marriage. We
got married a little older, and so I didn't really
know how to compromise. He didn't neither. It was really
hard for us our first year, and I hear that's
a common thing. Our second hardest year was the first

(01:13:49):
year that we got into business together. And I was like,
huge mistake. You know, where's the like pull the shoot?
This is so hard? Why because anytime you put two
things closer together, what do they do? Friction? Baby? You know,
it's just natural, this is physics. And so I don't
know why I was surprised, but I was surprised. And
then I realized after we got through the first year,
I was like, how did I ever do it? Where

(01:14:12):
I had a human who couldn't understand some of the
stuff I was going through at work. He is such
a crutch for me now and I am for him.
So now I'm kind of a proponent of by personal bias.
There's nothing better than having the ability to truly understand
what your spouse does for a living and intertwining it
some way.

Speaker 2 (01:14:28):
What do you think we were together for a long
time before we launched a business together. There's a couple
of things I have that I take. It's almost like,
so I never wanted my wife to support my work
when my career was taking off from the beginning, and
my reason for that was very clear. I knew a

(01:14:48):
lot of men who are extremely successful in their fifties
after three decades of success, where their partners had become
basically their assistance, and at the age of fifty, their
partner now felt that they didn't achieve their dreams because
they felt they didn't achieve their potential. And the guy
had gone off and ticked off every box on his
checklist and felt like a champion. But now at fifty,

(01:15:10):
they're having this realization. And because I saw so much
of that and my own work on purpose, I was
really clear that everyone has their own purpose, like everyone
has their own offering that makes them feel significant. And
no matter how much you love someone, no matter what
anyone says, you cannot say that your significance is just

(01:15:32):
tied to someone else's significance. You have to have something
that feels like your own thing that feels meaningful to you.
That could be your child, it could be your business,
it could be coaching the college basketball team. Right, this
isn't about building a business. And so all I would
encourage Rady to do was to find her thing. My
favorite thing was setting her up on girl dates. I'd

(01:15:53):
become friends with women, just introduce them to my wife.
She'd be like, what are you doing, You're weirdo, But
they're now her best friends, so I guess, well, yeah, exactly.
But my whole goal was just I don't want her
to fall into the trap of Jay's doing really cool stuff.
I'm just going to help him and then feel like
she didn't find herself. And you see women do this

(01:16:14):
more than men doing this. Men generally are more independent,
they know their thing, or they don't want to be
involved anyway. And she was so talented and skilled and
amazing from the moment I met her that I was like,
I mean, like Riley could have a TV show and
it would crush, like she's just the most magnetic elector Yeah,
she's just so lovable, right, So I was like, she
deserves to have all all herself, and she found out

(01:16:35):
as time went on. When we found a June, we
were both at such a strength in our knowledge of
each other's strengths and weaknesses. But we don't take any
meetings together zero zero. So she does all the formulation
meetings of the taste the flavor profile, the mixtures, all
of that. She does everything to do with the colors

(01:16:56):
and the packaging and everything else, and I'll do all
the business and marketing calls, and so we're never even
on the same calls. And that works for us because
it actually splits up the work because I'm like, oh,
I trust you you can nail like my palette is basic,
and you know, it's like I knew nothing about you
Zu Pineapple when I met Radi, or you've got the
peach one over there, like I had no clue. She

(01:17:17):
really gets that and I really get my part, and
that works well for us. But we founded this like
ten years into our relationship, and so there was such
an understanding of each other that it split it up
nicely for us.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
It's you know what, when you say it out loud
like that, I'm like, oh, that's actually similar in a
lot of ways, because our reasons for friction in the
beginning were because we were two captains. Yes, two captains
don't work. No, it's so you know, I was on
their trying and he was trying to. And now he
runs our investment business entirely, and like, you know, shout
out to him. He gets so embarrassed because I love

(01:17:50):
bragging on him. But you know, he has like one
of the top performing funds for his whole twenty twenty
two vintage, and people always say congratulations, and I'm always like, honestly,
I did so little for that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
I'm I'm good at like top of funnel, bring people in.
And then he is really good at execution. And he's
a hunter. He chases things down. And so you're right
now that we now I think about it. I'm on
two calls a week with him, but he runs everything
else and does it much better. And actually our only
annoying spots are when I'm like weaseling in on something

(01:18:24):
that like he's our I got it, I got it, Like,
don't bother me over here. So it's it's you know,
I'm I'm the weasel in.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Robbie. Wait a minute, where have you been for the
seven months we've been working on this and now you
want to give your opinions?

Speaker 1 (01:18:39):
Yeah, thank you making me feel better.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
Hey, I'm that guy too. Gosh, where did you turn
up from? Like I've been working so hard on this?

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Yeah, he says, He'll be like, here's the summary I
sent you four times and now you want to talk
about it. But you know, we are endearing sometimes, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:18:52):
Sometimes Yeah, But that's what's so important, right, it's trust
to me. I just don't want my private time with
the rody to become business time. And that's a personal choice.
I don't look down on someone who does it. I
don't think it's I don't think that's the best for
business or whatever, but it's the best for me. I
married Ridley because I like spending time with her. I

(01:19:13):
didn't marry her so that we could talk about how
to make more money together. Like that just wasn't That's
not why we're together. And that's not a bad thing
or a good thing. It's just who we are. It
works for us.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
It's true. I actually haven't found a lot of people
that are like that usually, And now I have a
lot of friends, probably just selection bias, who both work together,
but they're very different, you know. And usually you have
one person who I kind of joke is like more
of the fun. They're the one that's like, let's go
do activities, let's do whatever. They're still working a lot,
and then you have sort of the fun sponge, which
is me, you know, it's always working and without my

(01:19:43):
fun guy, I would just be working all the time.
And so it is this balance. I mean, I've become
friends with Sean rad who's the founder of Tinder, and
what's so interesting every time I talk to him We're
going to see him tomorrow night, is that he has
all this data on when relationships are the most successful.
It's like the problem with a lot of these algorithms
and how they do dating is that actually the things

(01:20:05):
that we choose do not lead to happiness, such as similarity.
Similarity actually doesn't lead to us happy of relationships, according
to Sean and his dad. And that tracks for me each.

Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
From us too. You know, Roddy's the playful and the series. Yeah,
and I've always said that that playful and that performance
mindset works so well together because you're balancing each other out.
But first, here's a quick word from the brands that
support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.
Now let's dive back in.

Speaker 1 (01:20:36):
You know, isn't that funny? And that's most things in
life too, Like if you want to make a lot
of money in business, you also need somebody who they
call them the visionary, right, the person who has all
the ideas, the crazy things, and then you have your executor,
which is often called your implementor. And so if you
only have vision but you have no execution, you will
fail and make no money. If you only have execution

(01:20:57):
but you have no vision, you will play small games
for life. So there's a great book actually called have
you read How to Make a Few Billion dollars? No,
it's a good book. It's by this guy, Brad Jacobs.
If you could get him on the podcast, I will listen.
I've been trying to. I don't know if he's your style,
but he's well, actually he might be. He was like,
he's a multi billionaire hedge fund manager and private equity investor,

(01:21:18):
and he started off as a jazz musician and that
was going to be his calling. So he really likes
like dissonant noises and like, how do you pull things
together and sort of make them play like a jazz musician?
Mark Anyway, he's bought all of these companies. He's massively successful.
But he always talks about what makes a great deal.
If you want to make a lot of money, you've
got to pick the right deal. And there's sort of
four types of deals. You could think about it like

(01:21:38):
a quadrant. You could have a low risk and you
could also have a low reward deal. That's actually most
deals in life, right, that's like stay in your same job,
don't take risks, et cetera. The problem is you're not
going to make much money. Then you have a high risk,
high reward deal. Well, that could be like investing in
an El Salvadoranian power plant. It's just so likely to

(01:22:01):
fail that even though it's super high profit, we probably
want to stay away from those. And then you have
sort of the golden child, which is how can we
have high reward low risk. Well, not many of those exist, right,
that would be a unicorn. So what we're really looking
for is where is there a big, hairy problem that
has the right amount of risk and if we can

(01:22:22):
find that, then we have profit. And so now they
call it hair on a deal. That's like you know,
investing terms. You want to look for those hairy deals
where you think, oh, that level of risk is manageable.
And in our culture, for some reason, I think we've
gone into risk off. God, we don't even want the
risk of asking somebody a question at a bar, you know,
more or less starting a business and that's a problem.

(01:22:45):
I mean, the SBA has fascinating data. Do you know
there are more small businesses that close each year than
open in the US, No way more close than open.
And so we have people taking way less risk than
we think, and that means you'll never make as much money.
That crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
Yeah, let's talk about that in terms of investing. If
someone's thinking that, because they cut exactly what you're talking
about right now, this risk reward profile. If someone has
never invested in anything, they're working their job, they've got
a little bit of money, maybe if they've got one
thousand dollars to start thinking about investing. Maybe they've got

(01:23:23):
a bit more. Maybe they've been saving up and they're
thinking that home that they want to buy is a long, long, long,
long long way away. But they've got a little bit.
Where should they.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
Invest If you have only a little bit of cash.
The best returning asset class of all time, it's going
to be you put the money into you learning first
before you go to invest. A lot of days, a
lot of people these days will say, hey, it's Airbnb.
Hey it's buying small businesses. Hey it's real estate. The
highest performing asset class that you could ever have is
you because you have unlimited upside and it compounds over time.

(01:23:56):
And so if you don't have a lot of cash
right now, bet on you first before you go back
on somebody in the SMP. Now after that next amount.
I believe because I'm old school, I started at Vanguard.
I believe if you're reasonable, you'd probably agree with me. Like,
do we think that we're going to beat the best
stock pickers in the world who obsess on this every
single day? Are we going to beat the titans of

(01:24:17):
industry with their technology? No, So that's why I always
go for low cost, low movement, so they don't trade
a lot index funds. I worked at Vanguard. They have
the best cost structure, so I throw things in the
S and P five hundred in a diversified portfolio out
of cost. To this week, you go to Vanguard dot com.
You have no fees on their trading platform. In my opinion,

(01:24:39):
avoid Robinhood, avoid anything where you're buying individual stocks when
you don't know, unless you're doing it purely for learning
and you're okay with losing everything. And you go to
Vanguard dot Com and you select a diversified portfolio It's
cool too because they'll actually help you do it based
on your age and based on how much risk you
want to take. So they'll have a sixty forty portfolio,

(01:25:02):
which is like sixty percent stocks and forty percent bonds
if you're our age, for instance, if somebody's a little younger,
they'll go eighty twenty because you should take more risk
with stocks when you're young. So you can literally in
one click get a diversified portfolio, and then you can
add to it. You could also use like a wealth
front for that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
What's the divis portfolio For someone who doesn't.

Speaker 1 (01:25:19):
Know, that means that you never want to have all
your eggs in one basket and anything in life, but
certainly in investing, and so that means that they're going
to give you stocks and bonds. It means they're going
to give you emerging markets versus the US. So let's
say India, China, Russia, Brazil and the US stock market.
And it means that typically over time. You know that
there's these charts you can see in finance where it

(01:25:41):
kind of looks like it looks like a grid and
audit are all of these different colors, and what do
all the coverers represent that have no pattern to it.
Every single year looks different. They represent every asset class
you could invest in, from bonds to stocks, to Chilean
stocks to short term money markets. And what you see
over time is in every single market, everything moves. And

(01:26:03):
so what you want to have is a portfolio that
over time averages somewhere around ten percent. That's the average
cost of inflation. How your money really if you don't
invest it. Every single year that you don't invest, you
lose money. Say you took a one hundred dollars bill
right here, and I had it right in front of me,
and I looked at that bill since the beginning of
the Federal Reserve, which is the government institute that mandates

(01:26:24):
or manages all of our currency in the US. So
if I go all the way back to the seventies
and I look at it today, what do I see?
I see that one hundred dollars bill, if I just
held it from then to now, is worth about twenty
five bucks. It's not worth one hundred anymore. Why because
of inflation. And so if we don't invest our money
and we stick it under our mattress, then sadly the

(01:26:45):
government eats away at it every single year, both sides
politically agnostic, and so we got to make sure that
we put our money somewhere. That's why the stock market
over time is usually what most people do.

Speaker 2 (01:26:55):
Okay, it makes a lot of sense. And what's the
difference between a stock and a bond?

Speaker 1 (01:26:58):
Okay, so stocks and bonds one oh one. I think
about stocks like a ability for you to have future
upside of a company. So you are betting in a
way on a company. You're saying, today the price of
Amazon is ten dollars. I think in the future the
price of Amazon will be fifteen dollars. I want to
go for that ride. It's called upside return with a bond.

(01:27:20):
What are you doing instead? You're saying, I actually want income.
It's like a certificate. If I give you one hundred bucks,
I promise you over the next five years, I'm going
to give you one hundred and twenty back. You're not
going to make more if the bond that you invest
in goes up or down in price. You're just going
to clip coupons is what they're called. It used to
be like that, So you're clipping the coupon. And the

(01:27:43):
reason we want both of those is because again, you
want when the stock market crashes, you want your bond
to still be clipping those coupons, baby still coming in
when the stock market's raging, you want to capture some
of that upside. And that's how we play right there
in the middle of investing.

Speaker 2 (01:27:58):
Is there a stage three? So we did stage one
as you Stage two is SMP. What's the stage three?

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
Stage three is private? So if you're a real pro
and you want to go for three h three of investing,
that's where we start to do private equity. That's just
investing in those same companies, but instead of them being
traded publicly, those companies are now held by private investors.
They'll never trade on a stock exchange. That also includes
things like you can have alternative investments that might be

(01:28:26):
in investing in direct in real estate or investing in commodities,
which would be like timber. Right, you could bet on
timber prices that might be like equity and options. I
think this generation got a little crazy because they were
the first generation to gamify stock market investing and make
it seem fun as opposed to serious. And they were

(01:28:46):
the first generation that got easy access to things like
options and warrants, and that's really actually only for pros.
So I think anybody who's trying to tell you how
to day trade, anybody who's trying to tell you how
to do options, that's strategy. You think about that like
somebody trying to tell you, let me teach you, over
the course of a couple hours of me speaking to you,
how to cut open somebody's brain. We just wouldn't do that.

(01:29:10):
This is for pros. And if you really want to
make real money, you don't do it by messing around
at the margins of financial investing. In my mind, you
do it by becoming the company that they invest in,
which is stage four. So that's when you're like, I
buy the business outright, I raise money for my own business,
and that's the next level of the game.

Speaker 2 (01:29:27):
That's so great. I love that step by step because
I feel for so many people it just feels like
this unorganized, messy, wild wild West. And now it's like,
wait a minute, stage one, stage two, stage stage four.
I love those. Going back to stage two of the
S and P. What percentage of someone's income should they
be looking to put into the S and P.

Speaker 1 (01:29:49):
There's lots of rules around this, but I believe in
you pay yourself first, and you pay yourself first. What
I mean is you think about your investments just like
you would a need, not a lot, so every single month.
I believe in automatic investing. I've done it my entire career.
Vanguard taught me that you get really lucky in finance.
They teach you how to invest so that it becomes
a habit, not a possibility. You don't wake up unless

(01:30:12):
you're gross and not brush your teeth, right, You just
brush your teeth because you're not gross, And so for investing,
I think about it the same way. It's like you
automatically set up your payments, so a little bit goes
every time. I believe you want to have at least
ten percent of the money that you make go into investing.
There's lots of different rules. People could play it either way,
but I think pay yourself first because otherwise you'll never

(01:30:32):
pay yourself at all. And give yourself at least ten
percent because we want to beat inflation every single year.
And if you do those two things, you are better
than about ninety percent of people that don't.

Speaker 2 (01:30:42):
Do that ten percent off the tax. That's just such
a great goal for people, and you start thinking about
it and you go, oh, what am I spending dumb
money on? You know, like, what do you see people
wasting money on? You know what?

Speaker 1 (01:30:53):
The biggest thing is people waste money on looking rich
instead of being rich. And that is a cultural phenomenon
that I think is eroding our wealth of society. I mean,
perfect example here Coachella. We know because we're on the
inside that the dirty secret of Coachella and everybody that
you see on there is that most influencers are one
paid to go, two given free tickets, three flown out

(01:31:16):
for free. Four They actually have warehouses where you can
pick out the clothes because that part's expensive, and you
get the clothes for free, or if you're a real pro,
they'll pay you to wear the clothes and give you
the clothes for free. And so this entire experience for
the few who become because we're all we just desire
what other people have. That's how humans are. They're not
paying anything for a thing that costs thousands and thousands

(01:31:36):
and thousands of thousands of dollars. Well, the problem is
is that the average Coachella main ticket holder, about sixty
four percent of them couldn't afford their ticket, so they
had to do buy now, pay later options. This year
they offered buy now, pay later. And that is just
for the ticket. That's not for the clothes, and that's
not for the food, and that's not for the drinks.

(01:31:57):
And so we are basically having credit card debt with
which lasts forever, as a trade for Instagram posts which
last for a minute. And so the number one thing
that you can do to change your financial future is
to not buy into what you see on the internet
everybody else doing, which is why I really respect what
you do and I try to do it online too.

(01:32:17):
Sure we have nice things now sometimes you'll catch it
in places because I won't really tell. But you don't
see me flashing nice watches. You don't see me having
nice cars. You don't see me posting about private planes.
Why that's not really necessary. And all you are signaling
is that that is what success is. That is not
a success is. Those are just accoutrements that could be
fun if you're into it once you're rich. But I

(01:32:40):
promise you I've met so many unhappy mothers who have
private jets.

Speaker 2 (01:32:44):
Yeah no, And I really appreciate that you saying that
because I think for me it was the same thing
I never wanted. I mean, when I started, I didn't
have anything to show, but I didn't want someone to
follow me for what I had. I wanted them to
follow me for what I was saying and doing and living.
And that to me always felt like that means anyone
could do it, and as soon as it became. And
also it was never about getting the thing, even for me.

(01:33:07):
So if you make it about getting the thing, then
the thing you do to get it you don't love.
Whereas my thing is I love the game. I love
what I'm doing, and same as you. And it goes
back to where we started, where it's like, if you
love the game, if you respect the rules, if you
love what you do, then all of these things are
a byproduct. They're wonderful, but they're never the gold and
never the destination. They're never the thing that you wanted.

(01:33:27):
That's not what drove you there.

Speaker 1 (01:33:29):
It's so true, and I'll be taken from you at
very points, you know. And so I think about it
a little bit like beauty. You know, I'm getting older
and I've tried on the internet. Never make it about
how I look one way or the other, if I'm
fit or not, if I'm in sexy outfits or not.
Why because I'm going to get old. I know what
the future looks like, and it's old and wrinkley and
sagotits and all the things right, and that's cool. It

(01:33:52):
doesn't matter. And so if I can like prepare now
that maybe people listen because I might have something valuable
to say, then I'll still have something valuable to say
when I'm made, as long as I'm still with it.
And I think it's the same with stuff. You know,
somebody could take that from you, but they cannot take ever.
Nobody but God can take all the lessons that you've
learned while running this business. Nobody but God could take

(01:34:13):
the relationships that you've built from this business. But many things,
including the market, could take everything that sits around us.
And so I try to remember that so that I
never anchored to it. And don't get me wrong, I'm
not like, I am not an actual monk. I am
very flawed, and so you know, I wish that I
was better at some of this, But it is like
the habits of millionaires are that they actually buy and

(01:34:35):
large they don't care about money. They care about winning,
and they care about learning, and real players find things
and money to be uninteresting at some point.

Speaker 2 (01:34:45):
Toty cents, you're amazing. This is so great with you
because it's just it's refreshing. We talked about everything from
dating to investing, to making money to being a good employee.
And I love that you're so flexible to go anywhere everywhere,
because I feel people are going to get so much
out of this episode, and I'm just so grateful that

(01:35:06):
you're showing up as you are always despite everything else
crazy life that you have going on as well, you're
able to come here and drop wisdom gems with ease.
Thank you for the priceless advice. It was so fun,
amazing value. Everyone who's listening and watching, make sure you
tag me and Cody on Instagram, on TikTok. Let us
know what you're testing, let us know what resonated with you,

(01:35:28):
let us know what connected with you. Because there were
so many moments that I was sitting there going this
is great, this is great. I hope someone does this.
I want to see what's stuck with you. And of course,
if you don't already, go and grab a copy of
main Street Millionaire. Subscribe to Cody's podcast, follow her across
social media, don't miss out in the amazing wisdom that
she has to share, and we'll see you again soon.

(01:35:50):
Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If
you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant
on why discomfort is the key to growth and the
strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you
want to be more and achieve more this year, go
check it out right now.

Speaker 1 (01:36:08):
You set a goal today, you achieve it in six months,
and then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief.

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
There's no sense of meaning and purpose.

Speaker 1 (01:36:16):
You sort of expected it, and you would have been
disappointed if it didn't happen.

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