Dr. Aliza Pressman: How to Avoid Your Parents Mistakes & Raise Confident and Resilient Kids

How do you help your children build confidence?

How do you teach your kids to be resilient?

Today, Jay welcomes Dr. Aliza Pressman. Aliza is a developmental psychologist with nearly two decades of experience working with families and healthcare providers. She is the host of the Raising Good Humans podcast and an expert in parenting strategies and child development. Dr. Pressman is also the author of The Five Principles of Parenting: Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans, where she offers practical advice and insights for parents looking to raise emotionally resilient and well-rounded children. 

Aliza begins by discussing whether everyone should become a parent and emphasizes the importance of being intentional and reflective before making that decision. She suggests that potential parents should think about their own values and how they want to approach parenting. She explains that having a strong, secure bond with a child is crucial for their development and that this bond can evolve over time, even if there have been mistakes along the way. 

Some children are more sensitive and require a specific environment to thrive, while others are more adaptable. She encourages parents to be mindful of their child’s unique needs. The discussion moves on to discipline and encouragement. Dr. Pressman suggests that discipline should focus on teaching rather than punishing, with clear boundaries set for the child’s safety and well-being. When it comes to building confidence, she emphasizes that helping children develop skills (competence) is more effective than simply giving praise.

In this interview, you'll learn:

How to handle parenting guilt and shame

How to set boundaries for your child

How to build your child’s confidence

How to discipline effectively

How to foster independence in your child

How to build a secure attachment with your child

By focusing on building secure attachments, setting clear boundaries, and fostering independence, parents can create a nurturing environment where their children can thrive. 

With Love and Gratitude,

Jay Shetty

What We Discuss:

00:00 Intro

02:57 Should Everyone Be a Parent?

04:29 How Do We Get to Be Who We Are?

05:50 Secure Attachment Relationship

07:15 Feeling of Guilt and Shame as a Parent

11:07 Tiny Moments to Build Resilience

15:31 The Tendency to Overcorrect

17:03 What is Effective Reflection?

21:44 Learn to Reflect with Your Children

26:31 Failure as a Parent

31:14 Different Forms of Communication with Children

35:10 What is the Right Approach to Discipline?

39:10 Three Parenting Styles 

41:36 Tension and Rejection Can Be a Motivation

45:34 Dealing with a Child Who Doesn’t Want to Open Up

50:12 Your Presence is Important

51:46 How to Have a Social Media Conversation?

57:12 How to Raise a Confident Human?

01:01:40 Allow Kids to Showcase What They Learned

01:05:53 Adults Can Work on Themselves

01:07:23 Aliza on Final Five

Episode Resources:

Dr. Aliza Pressman | Website

Dr. Aliza Pressman | Instagram

Dr. Aliza Pressman | Facebook

Raising Good Humans

The 5 Principles of Parenting: Your Essential Guide to Raising Good Humans

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
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Speaker 2 (01:00):
It used to be you have a baby, develop the
secure attachment and that's it. Our job is not to fix,
it's to be there.

Speaker 3 (01:08):
Actually have the podcast called Raising Good Humans Psychologists all
these oppressmen.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Not only can you not be perfect, but it's actually
worse for your kids. I feel like discipline is so controversial.
I think of it as all feelings are welcome, all
behaviors are not.

Speaker 4 (01:22):
Should everyone be a parent?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
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Speaker 3 (02:24):
The number one health and wellness podcast.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Jay set Jay Shedy J.

Speaker 1 (02:32):
Everyone Welcome back to on purpose. I know that you
come back here every week to become happier, healthier, and
more healed. And it's my commitment to go and find experts,
thought leaders, and thinkers that can help you on your
journey to make better decisions, to change habits, and to
transform your mindset. Now, I don't think there's potentially a

(02:54):
more important topic than the one we're discussing today, because
I think raising good humans, raising the future generation, and
learning how to improve ourselves in the process is probably
one of the most life changing journeys that any of
us ever go on. And today's guest is someone who
has so many great insights, so many great takeaways, so
many wonderful methods that we can all apply in our

(03:16):
daily lives to become better at being a good human
and raising good humans in the process. I'm speaking about
doctor Eliza Pressman. She's a developmental psychologist with nearly two
decades of experience working with families and their healthcare providers
who care for them. Eliza is also the host of
the podcast Raising Good Humans. If you're not listening already,

(03:38):
go ahead and subscribe. And today we're talking about her
new book that's out called the Five Principles of Parenting,
your essential guide to raising good humans. Please welcome to
On Purpose, Elisa Pressman. Alisa, it's great to have you here.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
I'm so thrilled to be here.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
Ah, thank you for being here.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Honestly, I'm really excited to dive in as been talking about,
and I wanted to get straight into this because I
have so many questions I want to ask you, and
I want to start off with what I believe is
the most important one. And I feel in our society
is often missed, forgotten, avoided, not even a thought. And

(04:16):
the question is should everyone be a parent?

Speaker 2 (04:20):
WHOA I don't think we can presume to say what
anybody should or shouldn't be other than the whatever your
definition of good human is. And so if that entails
bringing kids into this world, if that's your calling, I
think you must do it in whatever way that works out.

(04:43):
But not everybody wants that, and it's it's, you know,
it's an assumption that we probably shouldn't be making.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Absolutely for those who want children or have always thought
they've wanted children, what would you encourage people to think
about before diving in? Because I often feel that, like
so many things in society, whether it's the degree we
end up studying, or the job we get out of college,
or getting married or having children. It almost feels like

(05:10):
we're on a conveyor belt and we don't really stop
to pause and reflect, which I know is one of
your key principles. We don't often stop and think, should
we are we ready? What are the qualifications, what's useful?
And we just dive in. And it's interesting that, you know,
and I've heard many people talk about this. I think
I spoke to Kristen Bell and Dax about this at

(05:32):
one point, and they were talking about how, like you
just get to come back from a hospital with a baby,
no exam, there's no test, and like you spend all
these years studying for a degree, or you spend a
couple of years practicing out a drive or whatever it
may be, but all of a sudden, you have a
baby without a license and nothing else. And so, what
are some of the things you'd encourage people to think
about even before becoming a parent, that you think would

(05:55):
help them in the process of being a parent.

Speaker 2 (05:57):
I mean, ideally we all are thinking about this before
or we've become parents, because it just that reflection of like,
how did I get here?

Speaker 3 (06:06):
How do we come to be who we are?

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Which I think is the sort of crux of what
developmental sciences is, how do we get to be who
we are?

Speaker 3 (06:14):
And what then.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Happened in that process that I want to bring to
parenting and what do I want to let go of?
And if you take the time to reflect, then you
can be intentional about your parenting. So the idea that
we can do this before we have kids. If you
are in a position to talk to your partner about
that and really think through that, talk to yourself about that,

(06:38):
you can have a mission statement for how you want
to be as a parent. It's not like what your
kid's going to be like, because you have no idea what.

Speaker 3 (06:48):
Your kid's going to be like.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
That's a fantasy that you can decide, but we can't.
They are whatever seed is planted is planted and that
flower blooms. But we have so much capacity to be
intent and so that reflection before you're even trying to
have kids is so beneficial and it's actually linked with
secure attachment relationships.

Speaker 4 (07:10):
Oh wow, talk to me about that connection. I didn't
realize that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
So one of the things in the research on human development.
Is that having a secure attachment relationship with your child
or with you know, as the child has with one caregiver,
and that is you know, a whole other. We're probably
part of this conversation. It's so deeply protective. It buffers
the impact of trauma. It's so important. And not everybody

(07:36):
grew up with that. So about sixty five percent of
us came from secure attachment relationships. If we didn't, and
we reflect back and we think through what was going on,
how we came to be who we are, how we
learned how to be loved, how we experienced love, how
we gave love, we then have a much higher chance

(07:59):
of turning what could have been just an autopilot to
a different kind of relationship into this secure attachment.

Speaker 1 (08:07):
Now, no what everyone's thinking right now, they're thinking, at
list I wish you told me this five years ago.
You'd have saved me right Like, I feel like a
lot of our listeners may have already had children.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
And it's natural. Again, I'm not judging anyone.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
It's such a part of our community in society. And
and then I think a lot of people, especially our community,
who is really smart and thoughtful and intentional and listens
and goes. You know what, actually I realized that, but
I've already had children now and I feel like I've
made mistakes. What are some of the most common mistakes
people come up to you with where they're feeling guilt

(08:39):
and shame And I feel so sad for that, because again,
you couldn't have known. You didn't know, and now that
you know, as Maya Angelou said, now you know better,
you can do better. What have you seen are some
of the biggest mistakes people carry around as guilt and
shame when there when they have become parents.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Well, I think so importantly attachment reallyationships.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
Are dynamic, so you weren't just like it used to be.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
We used to think like you have a baby, you
develop the secure attachment, it's like a bond and that's it.
But we know now it's dynamic, and so if you
have a five year old or a sixteen year old
or a thirty five year old, you can still grow
that healthy attachment relationship.

Speaker 3 (09:22):
So you can change.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
And that's what your audience knows all the time. And
it's true about relationships with your kids. But I think
that shame is from thinking like I wasn't there enough.
There's shame in not being able to fix whatever your
child's going through. And what I hope everybody gets from

(09:44):
certainly this conversation is that our job is not to fix,
it's to be there. And that's what secure attachment is.
Even in your adult relationships. It's like, who can sit
with me through all of these experiences, through these feelings
because we're not like the idea of being happy isn't

(10:07):
really about always being happy. It's about knowing you can
come back from whatever it is that you're going through
and you will be happy again. And if our kids
experience the range of things that come their way and
they know that they have someone sort of sitting by
their side, they end up in this relationship that is

(10:28):
securely attached and it's not like one and done and
if it didn't. You know, that's the thing that I
think is the trickiest is feeling like I'm responsible for
my child's constant happiness. I have to feel ashamed if
I wasn't there for every moment, or if I couldn't
fix that feeling, which you can't, as you know. And

(10:50):
I think sometimes people feel like they're maybe better or
worse at different stages. And so there's you know, like
this assumption that we're going to kind of know what
to do, the idea that you do come home from
the hospital and you're just like, okay, I guess I
just feel like in adulthood this happens all the time.
Like I remember just the first time I was, you know,

(11:14):
in my twenties and I had my own apartment, and
I was like, wait, I can just decide what I'm doing.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
I can open a bottle of wine. Like there were
things that I still was like, I'm going to it's bizarre.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
And now like that I'm the last, you know, person
in charge of whatever, and there's nobody that I'm supposed
to ask and I can make a decision. I'm still
kind of like, is that okay?

Speaker 4 (11:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (11:36):
And so the idea that you're just like in charge
of raising a whole human being or more is really
daunting and we all kind of think everybody else knows.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
We don't know.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Yeah, And I think those two things really resonated with me,
this idea of I want to fix all their problems
and I'm not there them enough, and I can feel
like I can obviously only relate to them theoretically from
a parenting standpoint, but I can relate to them in
my other relationships, So whether it's with my younger sister,
whether it's with my wife, or whether it's with the

(12:14):
people I love in my life. And I can only
imagine how that is amplified with a child that you're
you know, that feeling and so, how do you carry
that weight and almost loosen that control that is naturally
it feels so got instinct correct, right, It doesn't feel

(12:37):
like that's a bad idea. Yeah, it feels like that's
the best thing, that's what you were made for. And
then you're failing at it, and so how do you
do what you just said? How do you carry that
weight at the same time is recognized that you need
to put it down?

Speaker 2 (12:52):
I mean, I think that that's where the idea of
repair and the what we know about repair comes in
is that in the same way that we build muscles,
like you need tiny little ruptures in the muscles to
grow stronger muscles, we have to have tiny moments of disrepair,

(13:15):
of not being exactly the right parent, of not being
able to fix the feeling, of the feeling being really
really hard, of the experience being a fail in order
to grow stronger relationships. And so I think taking the
weight off is much more easy or comes by more
easily when you remind yourself, like, I'm actually building this

(13:37):
muscle for my child and for me. So every mistake
is to me this like, Okay, I just because you
have this relationship, because you're invested, because you're intentional, you're
going to blow it.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
You're not going to be able to fix it.

Speaker 2 (13:53):
You're going to feel like, oh my god, did I
ruin my kid? And no, you invested in resilience building
because you're there. If you were like, oh, well, you know,
like rot and suffer, that's a totally different thing. But
nobody listening to this is that. And so I think
that lifts the weight of not only can you not

(14:14):
be perfect and not only can you not fix everything,
but it's actually worse for your kids. And it is
important to acknowledge what you said, which is it's still
appropriate to want to of course, like.

Speaker 3 (14:27):
You you should.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
I think we all want to help the people we love,
and it is amplified with the people that you are
raising because it's like, I can make this better, I
have capacity to change this, to call the school, to
call the friend, to change the system, to.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Move to whatever.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
But when we can get a little bit more sort
of accepting of the fact that it is so hard
to watch someone struggle, but when they're struggling next to
you and you can be there for them and help
them understand that that is part of being a person.
It's not dangerous. Feelings are not dangerous. You're giving them
such a gift that that's where I think you can

(15:12):
let go of the weight.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Well, yeah, I think when I'm listening to you, I'm
thinking it takes almost the same amount of energy to
shame yourself as it does to shift yourself.

Speaker 3 (15:26):
Oh wow, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:27):
Right, this idea of I'm going to sit here and
keep replaying the mistake I made and the wrong thing
I said, and how I messed up in this moment,
or I do reflect on that as you would say,
I do reflect on that, and now I know what
I need to say next time, and what I need
to say now and how to behave differently. And that

(15:47):
takes the same amount of time, It takes the same
amount of energy, it takes the same amount of effort.
But on negativity bias naturally takes us into.

Speaker 3 (15:55):
That it's like a spiral spiral, yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
And just self judgment, self criticism that we then pass
down on to our children as they see us do that.

Speaker 2 (16:03):
And then you're you know when you when you shift it,
you're actually building the very strength of the relationship that
you're lamenting, yes for the mistake.

Speaker 1 (16:14):
Yes, yeah, when you when you were saying that, I
was thinking about I almost feel like when I speak
to a lot of parents as well, and I speak
to my community and audience, there's a feeling of I
went through something I never want my kids to go
through that, right, or I didn't get this opportunity.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
I really want them to get this opportunity.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
So our life becomes this mirror projection of what I've
called before, the gifts and gaps in our lives. So
if our parents gave us gifts, we want them to
have those same gifts. And if our parents left gaps,
we want to fill those gaps for the kids. And
so in that mindset, how does that mindset create challenges
and issues and how do we actually tweak and refine that.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
I mean, I think we overcorrect and so if we're
reflective and we can say, Okay, this is the thing
I really didn't have and I really want my kids
to have. But let me be aware that that doesn't
mean that I should forget about, for example, boundaries. You know,
if I didn't receive a lot of affection and love

(17:22):
and connection, am I going to be so worried that
I'm not giving enough of that to my child that
I'm scared of the limits and boundaries that are necessary
for their safety.

Speaker 3 (17:35):
I think that happens all the time.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
And so it's all middle path, you know, like if
we notice that something really really matters to us, can
we let it matter without overcorrecting and forgetting about these
other things?

Speaker 4 (17:50):
Yeah, and that's so odd.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
I know, it's such a challenge, Like I feel like
that controller inside of us, and I feel that there's
such a experience that we're having of what we're trying
to heal in our children is what we're trying to
heal in ourselves. And so there's this constant belief that
I think I'm trying to heal them, but really I'm
just preaching to myself and processing something internal. But our

(18:15):
self awareness is so warped sometimes or hidden that we
can't see that we think we're doing it.

Speaker 4 (18:22):
Just for the benefit.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
How do you break that veil, Like, how do you
kind of how do you reflect effectively? I think that's
the question I'm asking, Yeah, what is effective reflection? Because
I think we can all ponder and maybe our reflection
takes us as far as yeah, you know, my parents
like always forgot my birthday. I won't forget my kid's birthday.
I'll do it right. Or yeah, you know, my dad

(18:43):
never turned up to my sports games, and so if my.

Speaker 3 (18:45):
Kids sports like to miss the thing, Yeah, yeah, so
that's good.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
But what is the most effective version of reflection that
makes it such a big part of your five principles?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
So I think if you can write down, like set
a timer and for five minutes and write down the
story of who you are as a parent that your
child's going to explain to their grandchildren, Oh wow, just
five minutes, who are they describing? And then circle the
words that really keep coming up and make that your

(19:22):
mission Like this is my mission statement as a parent,
and I now know sort of my north star, and
within that framework, I'm going to reflect and decide if
it's still working or am I overcorrecting. So like, for example,

(19:42):
if one of the things that keeps coming up is
I want to be present.

Speaker 3 (19:46):
I want to be present. I want to be present.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
And the way you're translating it is you're not missing
a game to the point where your child doesn't know
how to enjoy themselves without the audience, to the point
where it feels like they are so the center of
your universe that they are worried that you are not
a person without them. Then you would want to pivot

(20:10):
and say, I can be present without being invasive, you know,
But I think that that's the easiest way is to
check into how is this? I mean, in a scientific paper,
you'd say, how is this operationalized? And in life, I

(20:30):
would genuinely do that exercise regularly, like kind of every
year and check in. And the other thing that I
think is very interesting about it is if you figure
out kind of what your mission statement is like in
this is this parent or in this household, if you're
doing it with your co parent or again, you can
keep it to yourself, but as your kids get older,

(20:53):
if you say to them, my mission in this as
a parent is this, you know, these three things were
really important to me. What do you think my mission
or our mission statement is? And if your kids come
back to you as they're older, and your like kindness,
empathy and presence, and they're like education, persistence and money.

(21:17):
That's okay, But then it's a moment to say, huh,
there's one of two things happening here. Either I'm not
parenting in the way that I mean to, because the
messaging is clearly not getting across. Or I'm not honest
with myself about what I'm really going for because there's
no right or wrong. No, But it's more like, how

(21:40):
do I keep checking in with it so that that
reflection is taken into action.

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Speaker 4 (22:16):
Go grab your Juni.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
So interesting how two people can have the exact same
experience with the same parents, yet respond so differently. I
played a lot of sports growing up, and my mum
would be taking care of my sister and rarely would
my dad show up. And I took that and I
have a good relationship with my dad now, and I

(22:39):
took that as a sign of I got to decide
who I wanted to be. And it's been probably one
of the best things that ever happened to me that
my dad didn't sho up because I had no one
to impress apart from myself. Yes, and I love that
because till this day, I make decisions based on not
completely I have challenges too, but I make wholly. I
will reflect on decisions as to how do I feel

(22:59):
about this, because I'm the person that I have to
live with, and I think that's one of my favorite
qualities that I've been able to gain in life. But
I also know a lot of people who've been through
the same thing, and they've just feel abandoned, they feel discouraged,
they feel like no one was ever there for them.
They weren't able to learn self validation in the process.
And it's almost like as parents, when you're trying to overcorrect.

(23:22):
It's that you don't know how a child is going
to respond to your presence or your absence, And I
think we can kind of get into a whirlwind around that.
And I like what you're saying, this idea of actually
reflect with them totally. It's such a beautiful way as
they get older of like, what does that mean? And
I think that requires such a maturity on a parent's

(23:43):
part because it's hard.

Speaker 4 (23:44):
To do that.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
It is, it is, but then you get to also
model for your kids this thing that we wish maybe
was modeled for us. Reflection and also just to your
point about the different responses. And I write about this
in the book, and this is a big part of
the literature and developmental science, but temperament really is real.
And I like how doctor Thomas Boyse talks about it

(24:08):
as orchids, dandelions, and then later folks said they studied tulips.
But it's like a way of looking at how the
environment influences you. That's kind of You're born this way right,
you come into this world, has nothing to do with
anything that your parents have done. You are responding to

(24:29):
the wind in a different way than the next child.
And so an orchid is going to thrive in certain sunlight,
water and soil. But we've all or maybe not all
of us, but I certainly have tried to raise orchids
and they're like, it's like a stump because I just
wasn't I wasn't sensitive enough to that particular flowers need.

(24:52):
And so I learned about the plants that needed less
and I could fill my house with those, but you
can't do those. And so but like a dandelion child,
and these are real, like they studied these orchid babies
for real, like as babies, not as actual flowers, but
just label them as orchids and dandelions. And a dandelion

(25:14):
is probably going to grow with just like your basic sunlight,
water and soil, your basic love connection and some boundaries
and rules. And they're they're gonna go to the game,
not go to the game. They're gonna be fine. But
if you if you have a kid that isn't thriving
and that's happening, then it's also it's very courageous, it's

(25:36):
very vulnerable, but asking ourselves like what do I need
to give in order for this flower to bloom? And
it's gonna be different for every child. So it's not
like you have one way to parent and that's it,
but you know, and it's not as exhausting as it sounds.
It's more just like, okay, this one because you see

(25:57):
it pretty quickly, Like as you get to know your kids,
you're like, this one notices the sound of the air
conditioning more easily. This one does not notice if anything
is going on, like they're just sort of moving around
the world and nothing's getting to them. Other kids are
like this tag is itchy. It's temperament. It's not because
you know the parent was over coddling. It's like you

(26:20):
can amplify these things, of course, like you could take
a kid who's very sensitive, ignore their needs, ignore their needs,
ignore their needs, and they're probably going to be extra needy.
Or you can take a kid who's extra sensitive and
turn that sensitivity into beautiful empathy and creativity and curiosity
and thoughtfulness, but you're still dealing with the same sensitivity.

(26:42):
So I just think that recalling that you could go
through experiences like not having a parent come to your
game and no, let's say you have a kid and
you're like, my dad never came to the games, and
this is why I'm kind of amazing at knowing what
I need and knowing that I'm not doing it for
everybody else, and I'm not performing to please a parent.

(27:05):
But then if your child says, can you.

Speaker 4 (27:07):
Please come to a game, yeah, you can't apply that.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
You have to say yes.

Speaker 2 (27:11):
But I think what would be great is that you
know in your heart, yes, I'm going to go to
some of those games, but I don't have to go
to all those games in order for this child to thrive.
And that's the gift of the lesson that you got
from your father.

Speaker 4 (27:24):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
I so appreciate the nuance of that and the sensitivity
of that, because I think that's where we trip ourselves up,
where it's like, oh, that's the lesson I learned. I
don't need to go to any games. They'll learn independence
because that's what I learned. They are different, They're an
old kid or whatever else it may be, and that
lack of sensitivity and that lack of connectivity with them

(27:45):
and noticing their temperament and noticing their environment that they
need is often what happens. And I also find that
this kind of what you were saying, this idea of
when we're noticing these things in them. When we notice
inadequacies or lacks in a child in what we perceive

(28:07):
to be an inadequacy, it's because we're having this feeling
of we're inadequate because we haven't been able to have them.

Speaker 4 (28:15):
Not have that issue.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Yeah, and I find that we're trying to solve it
so that we can solve that inadequacy inside of ourselves,
and then when it doesn't solve, and then we keep thinking, well, it.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Must be me, it must be me.

Speaker 3 (28:25):
Yeah, what's me?

Speaker 4 (28:27):
How do you process that? Door?

Speaker 1 (28:29):
What's what's a healthy practice to have when that seems
to be a recurring theme.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
You know, it's really interesting because as you were saying that,
I was thinking about what really pisses me off? Like
what what when do I get When do I disappoint
myself as a mother? And it's when my kids are
doing something that I feel is hard for them, or
they get hurt or something is like they should be

(28:58):
better at this because of my pain parenting and.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
I was the one who blew it.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
And so my anger is not at all at them,
but it comes out it can come out at them,
which is the only thing that sort of motivates me
to deal with it because we just feel like such
failures and a lot of the time it's just like,
wait a second, can I also look at what's the

(29:24):
benefit of having something different going on for this child?
Like maybe it means that they're going to see things
in a clearer way, or maybe it means that because
this is bothering them, they're going to pay attention. Now
I don't know what this is, but like, because you know,

(29:45):
this is a silly example, but let's say itchy tags
bother them, and there are sensory issues and all sorts
of things, but we're not getting into that. But because
itchy tags bother them, and they really like soft clothing,
and there's You're like, I've raised this kid who can't
function in the world, and now I'm mad at myself
because I'm like, just deal with it. But if you
could say, I wonder if this is what strength will

(30:09):
this bring for them instead of looking at it as
a weakness. Is it possibly just different than you? Because
one of the things about temperament is also like what
kind of flower are you? Because there's something that researchers
have long looked at, which is it's called goodness. A
fit and when a parent and a child has a

(30:30):
good fit, their temperament matches well, they tend to do
better and so they're not going to change. But we
have more capacity to sort of pay attention to that.
And so another thing that we can think about is like,
what is my temperament? How do I respond to the environment,
and why is that bothering me? And also if you

(30:51):
feel like because I would say an example that happens
a lot is if you have a kid who's more
sensitive and you're just like kind of a dandelion. It's annoying.
You know, you have to take a lot more care
and a lot more time. But you could have one
parent who's like, I'm so sensitive, they're so sensitive. I'm
going to be so attuned that maybe it's too much,

(31:14):
maybe maybe they won't learn, you know. So it's again
back to paying attention then coming to the middle of
it and saying, okay, one of us. Let's say you
have two parents, and you can say one of us
is able to notice those sensitive moments.

Speaker 3 (31:31):
We're able to sort of be attuned.

Speaker 2 (31:34):
So I'm going to pay less attention to that skill
that I have so naturally, and I'm going to focus
on not panicking when my kid is uncomfortable. But maybe
the more dandelion like parent is going to say, I
think I've got the not worrying so much about them
and thinking they can handle it. So I'm going to

(31:54):
focus on being more attuned to what's going on for them,
and so we just like it's this, you know, constant
sort of. It's not hard, though, it's I think it's interesting.
I think if you look at it as curious and interesting,
it's not like, oh my god, how much is there
to think about? But it's just like in their small moments,
you know, we're just kind of paying attention. And when
you have that capacity to give attention to things, it's

(32:19):
it's not that hard. It's what's hard is that we
just want it to be right all the time and
not hard. But the like when you let go of
it and you're just like, all right, my tendency is this,
I'm going to I'm going to go on the other
side of it and challenge myself more often than not
fifty five percent of the time. I think you can

(32:42):
really develop incredible relationships with your partner with your kids
because you're basically saying I'm not going to assume that
you and I are the same person.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
I'm not telling the same story.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
I'm going to let you unfold as you are, and
I'm going to give you a little bit of my
you know, like what I can offer.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Are there different forms of communicating with children that work
at different ages in their journey? Like are there certain
types of communication or forms of communication that are more
effective between zero and five, ten and fifteen or anything
like that, or how do you see that communication evolving
over ages?

Speaker 2 (33:20):
I guess I think the first five years there's a
lot more physical communication, even though of course we want
to use our words, because the more exposure to language
you have, the more likely you are to have, you know,
sophisticated language. But physical touch is so effective and a
lot of times we try to talk young children like

(33:41):
out of feelings, and those are the times that I
really want to encourage people to let their nervous system
do the talking. So you just kind of put your
hand on your heart, take a breath, remind yourself that
whatever is going on for them, they're safe. They're just upset,
and so you're lending them your nervous system, but you're

(34:01):
not telling them you're not like you're safe, You're gonna
be okay. You're just upset that you didn't get a
blue cup and you really wanted it. You're more like
reminding yourself of that quietly. You don't need to use words,
and then over time you can use more words. But
in general, we use too many words. I say, using

(34:23):
so many words.

Speaker 4 (34:24):
Wow, that's interesting. And the reason for that.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Is because our kids only have so much capacity to listen,
and a lot of the things that they're learning from
us are watching and borrowing our nervous system.

Speaker 3 (34:40):
So rather than saying.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
You know whether or not something is worthy of freaking
out about or telling them how to feel, they could
just see that it's not scaring you. So instead of saying,
don't be scared, they can be scared, but they're watching
you not be scared. And like a flight attendant, I mean,
this is this shows you my issues.

Speaker 3 (35:02):
But like I am not a great flyer, though I
fly a.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Lot, and I always choose the seat close enough to
the flight attendant because I just want to see how
they're doing. And then if there's turbulence, I feel like
they have enough experience in this world and this gig
of flying that if it were worrisome, I would pick
up on it. And it's the same thing. If our
kids are looking at us, come on, like, so we

(35:26):
don't have to say so many words, but we do
have to pay attention to what's going on inside of us.

Speaker 1 (35:30):
That's such a good example. That is so interesting. I'm like,
I don't I fly a lot. I'm not afraid of flying.
But if there's bad turbulence, that's the first The first
thing you do, right is I try and look at
how they're doing. And it doesn't matter whether they turn
on the thing and say, hey, there's turbulence. Pretty belts
and I'm watching You're looking at their face and their

(35:52):
body lengths so real. Yeah. Wow, that's such a great example.
And you never think about that because you think it's
the words that do the communication. And you're so right
that often you don't believe the words or you don't
feel the words exactly.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
And I want our kids to believe us, and so
if we are going to use words, we have to
believe them too. Like if you said no, no, no,
I'm not upset, but you're upset, it's a mixed message
and so over time your kids aren't quite they're not
going to believe that they can read people properly because
it's like, what's really going on? So I think part

(36:28):
of it is fewer words, and then when you use words,
tell the truth, I mean within developmental reason.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yes, I asked a couple of people around what questions
they'd be interested in asking, and I think the two
big things that came up, which I'm sure you hear
a lot of we're disciplined and.

Speaker 4 (36:46):
Encouragement, like the two opposite things.

Speaker 1 (36:48):
So it's like, this seems like two common parents' activities
are disciplining and trying to encourage or nurture, and so
I want to talk about each of those.

Speaker 4 (36:59):
Let's start with disciplining.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
What is the what is the right approach to discipline
in a way as you talk about creates resilience, Yeah,
as opposed to I guess if we had a mission
statement for disciplining, traditionally it would be to get things right,
to do things well, to know what is good and bad.

Speaker 4 (37:19):
I feel those.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
Would be traditional metrics of discipline. Yeah, what would you
say are the new metrics? And and how does healthy
what does healthy disciplining look like to lead to resilience?

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Okay, I feel like discipline is so controversial, but I
think of it as all feelings are welcome, all behaviors
are not. So if I had to sum it up,
and I think we do think of discipline as punishment
versus teaching, and it's teaching, and if we're teaching how
to move through the world, and if we're teaching kind

(37:53):
of what's expected, what are boundaries and they're real, like
they are for your emotional, physical safety, and you're not
just doing them to control, but you actually are, like, no,
this is a big deal because it actually influences your
growth and development. It's not just for my entertainment. Then
your kids trust you a little bit more and the

(38:14):
relationship is stronger. But I think the key with discipline
is not being afraid of how our kids react to
it and having the strength of purpose and belief that
if they do have a negative reaction to it, we
can love them all the way through it, but we're
not going to change our minds about it, because that's

(38:35):
where it gets messy, is that. And I think this
is partly my whole field and industry. If we're talking
all about how important the relationship is, and then you
have this limit that you set like, this is my
expectation of you, and your child doesn't like it. This
simply like you know, I take the phone away at
night or the iPad or whatever, and your child is

(38:58):
freaking out about it. Then you go, well, now I've
messed with the relationship, and so I guess I should.
They're crying and I need to get back in there,
So okay, I'll give you more time or whatever it is.
And that's where we get confused. I think if parents
really understood that feelings aren't dangerous, that kids aren't going
to say thank you for the boundaries and limits that

(39:20):
we set, and that we set them with the intention
of physical and emotional safety about not just them but
other people. Like we're not just raising kids in a vacuum.
They have to move through the world and think about
community and other humans, and so what's comfortable for them
might not be thoughtful to other people. And so it's

(39:40):
that balance between be there for yourself, but also not
to the extent that you can't you know that you're
entitled and don't respect that there are other people in
the world.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
Yeah, I remember, and I think my mom got that
right from why I can at least follow that advice
because I remember in my time was a bit easier
because we were just playing video games, like that was
the closest thing we had to a mobile phone, right,
And it's I remember I'd get home from school and
I was allowed to watch TV for thirty minutes and
play video games for thirty minutes and after that to
do homework.

Speaker 4 (40:11):
Then we'd have dinner and then whatever that, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
And I remember that that hour was like something I
looked forward to every single day because I'd get to
watch whether it's The Simpsons or when I got older,
like Fresh Prince of bel Air or whatever it was.
And then and and those rules kind of changed over
time where it's like, okay, now you get a bit
more polaystation time or whatever else it may have been
as I got older. But I now look back and

(40:36):
really value the fact that I had these limits and
rules and discipline because it's created a healthy level of
discipline that I value today in me. And yeah, of course,
when I was a kid, I didn't enjoy it, like
I didn't want to do my homework and turn off
the tea.

Speaker 4 (40:51):
Who does want to do that? But I feel like.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
It was It's interesting how yeah, I don't think my
parents negotiated in the bogainy with that stuff. It was
just like, no, that's just how it is. And as
uncomfortable it probably was for them that I hated them
at that time, you know, at the time, Yeah, they
were willing to live with that, and.

Speaker 3 (41:15):
I guess it was for your benefit.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
Correct, And I guess that's the hard part, right. So
we want you want your kid to love you and
like you, and it's not fun not being liked by someone,
especially when you're trying to help them, Yes, and you're
trying to do good for them.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
No, it's true because it's like you.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
I mean, there's three kind of parenting styles outside of neglectful,
which is not you know, that's a whole other thing.
But there's like the permissive, which is best friend parenting,
and it is so sensitive. They do like you and
you can play as many video games as you want
and all that's great, except for it you have no
nobody's steering the ship, and so it actually can lead

(41:51):
to anxiety and depression and a sense that you are
too responsible for things. And the other side of it
is authority Harran, where it's fear based and it's just rules,
and it's just because I said so, but without the like,
I know you really love doing this and I wouldn't
stop you from doing it if I didn't know that
it was better for your brain or whatever. So that's

(42:13):
the middle path of like authoritative, where you're sensitive but
you stick with your limits and boundaries because you know
that that's going to benefit your kids. And then you
start to because it's about our comfort, like how much
can I handle of you being upset with the boundary
that I set. It's not like anything else. It's really

(42:33):
just looking at ourselves and saying, what is my capacity
for handling the discomfort knowing that I've made this choice
because it's for my child's benefit, because they're definitely not
going to be like, thank.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
You so much.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
And so when people say, like, this strategy isn't working,
I'm like, that's not the goal. The goal is and
for your kids to say, oh, thanks for explaining.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Now I'm just going to listen.

Speaker 5 (42:59):
Right.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
That's so interesting, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
It's like, as humans and as adults, we believe that
getting something right means knowing the right thing to say
and getting the right response, which is a response we
want or agree with And the truth is, half the time,
when you're doing the right thing, you rarely get a
response in that moment that is aligned with what you want.

(43:23):
Like I always say to for me, I feel like,
you know, up until eleven, I was a pretty good
kid and obedient, and then eleven to twenty one, I
was totally the opposite, and my parents were wrong about everything,
or maybe fourteen to twenty one, And then when you
kind of like twenty five, you're like, yeah, you know what,
my parents were good, Like, my parents were right about
so many things, and I'm so grateful to them and

(43:44):
all the rest of it. Like that kind of overarching
feeling comes out, which, yeah, as a fifteen year old,
you know, you didn't have And it's almost like we
want them to display this, Like if my parents wanted
me to display gratitude at fifteen, it was never going
to happen.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
Right, No, that's a great example.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
Actually, yeah, right, but we all believe that we're the
exception that our kids will do that. Yeah, Yet we
were also the ungrateful kid. Right. It's almost I find
it because I'm not a parent, I find it better
to reflect on what I was like as a kid. Yeah,
I know my parents had good intentions. I know they
tried their best. I still chose to do things they
would never agree with, and I still chose to behave

(44:22):
in ways. And it wasn't because they did anything wrong.
It's just because I was a kid.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
You were being a developing human.

Speaker 2 (44:27):
Your description of yourself mapping with brain development, and it
tracks right like eleven to fourteen. Maybe we're just beginning
to experiment with pushing them away and push back and rebellion,
and then you know, that's like puberty happens, hormones change.
Then there's you know, fourteen to till you were in
your twenties. Your prefrontal cortex doesn't fully develop till eighteen

(44:50):
to twenty eight, and boys it's later, so it's usually
not the eighteen and so you are more you know,
they say all gas, no breaks, and so all of
the things you're talking about are mapping with where your
brain was at the time. And as an adolescent, you're
about to leave the nest, and so you're supposed to

(45:13):
start to learn how to reject and so it's this
like push pull. Ideally, there's still moments of connection, and
you know, maybe they didn't you know.

Speaker 3 (45:25):
It's possible.

Speaker 2 (45:26):
I don't know, but it's possible that they felt rejected
by your rebellion and then you you know, you're pushing
away then worked, and so they didn't come toward you
and say like despite all of this, like we love
you very much, or maybe they did, But those are
times of tension, and you're supposed to by the time

(45:47):
you're ready to go out into the world, you have
to feel like you know, you shouldn't can And if
it was just like cozy and delicious at all times
at home and there was none of that tension, wouldn't
be motivated to grow up and go on.

Speaker 3 (46:03):
So it all makes sense.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
That is so I've never heard it put that way,
and I've never thought of it that way. That is
such a fascinating point that in order to leave the
pack you have to have a sense of rejection, autonomy
and independence just.

Speaker 4 (46:19):
In the idea of development.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, like there has to be that feeling of I
can do it on my own and I will figure
it out. And yah know, my my parents, I think honestly,
were able individually with me to be like I always
feel that my mom was able to be that person
who I always feel even till this day is always
there for me, but never smothering or controlling in that way.

(46:44):
And so it's it's been a really like I know
that if no matter what was to happen, I could
always my mom would catch me. Yes, and I know that.
But that's what's given me the confidence to not have
to rely on it. Yeah, because it's it's there and
I know that deeply. Yeah, it's just there. And and
when my dad, he was a lot more aloof But

(47:05):
like I said, that worked good for me because it
helped me chart my own path and you know, build that,
which is interesting. I wanted to dive in a couple
of things that stood out to me from the book
that I've dogg here here because I've got so many
little parts that I loved that I wanted to talk about.
One of the things I was thinking about is you
talk about here the idea of having a parent who's

(47:25):
helping us through hard times. And I was thinking, I
think one of the hardest thing about a young person
going through a hard time is they don't have the
vocabulary to talk about it, even even adults, but kids especially, Yeah,
even adults, like you know, it's hard even to ask
your partner when they're going through a tough time, let
alone a child that And I think with our children
we try harder often than we try with our partners.

Speaker 4 (47:47):
But with your child, you're like, tell me what's going on,
like I want to know.

Speaker 1 (47:50):
I'm here to help you, and they're like I don't know,
Like go away, like I don't know what I'm going through. Right,
walk us through that path and that process, because again
we feel so rejected and so distant and it almost
feels like we're failing. But the real issue here is
we can't get them to open up, and therefore we
can't help.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Yeah, I mean it's so hard because if you push
and for a lot of some kids are like disclosers,
Like there are people I was like, let me tell you,
let me tell you everything, mom, to the point where
she was probably like I really don't need to know
this much. But then there are the more closed in,

(48:32):
closed up kids. And also it just depends on your
vocabulary that you've grown up with, which is I think
that going back to like, even when you have limits
and rules, you want your kids to know, as you're
describing your mom, that they have you. So if you
do mess up, yeap, you can still go to them

(48:52):
instead of being terrified.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
And so that's this.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
Weird thing where it's like, here are my expectations. Also,
I want to name the fact that you're going to
blow it sometimes and I want to be the person
you come to, and that's something to say, not when
they're struggling. And I think part of the reason why
it's hard to get kids to open up is because
we try to get in there when they're in the
center of the struggle instead of like building the vocabulary

(49:17):
and connection outside of it. So you have the conversations
and you give the language when nobody's in the heat
of the moment, so that when the heat of the
moment comes, they already know that they can come to
you and you can just say to them, I can
tell something's going on. I'm here whenever or if ever,

(49:38):
and then just leave space. A lot of times doing
something with a kid who's not opening up, like going
for a drive even so that you're not looking at
each other. And you know, I can't think of any
sport right now because I'm not super sporty, but you know,
like playing, I'm like, what is it called? And one

(50:00):
does a game with someone now, thank you. So you
go play pickleball. You're playing pickleball, it's going to come up,
but you want to just like put little tiny moments
where you say, I'm askable, I'm tellable, and I'm not
going to say anything. And one of the things that
helps is that when your kids do tell you something,

(50:22):
you say thank you for telling me before you have
any other reaction, and that may be your only reaction,
and then you give them a little space and then
you say is there anything I can do? And it's
not you know you can fix it, it's is there
anything I can do to be supportive of you right now?
And the other thing is like this is developmental too,

(50:47):
but when you think about teenagers versus young kids with
younger kids, you want to be This is going to
sound ridiculous if you don't think about animals this way,
but I do, so tell me if it resonates. But
you kind of want to be a dog. You're wagging
your tail when you're excited to see them. You're always
there and you're like really enthusiastic and they need that.
But then as they get older, imagine you're eleven to

(51:10):
twenty five year old self you need to be a cat,
so you're like a little You're there, you're always around,
you're not you might you're touching their feet, like you're
not overly on top of them. But if they're interested,
they can come to you. But you're not going anywhere.

(51:31):
So it's like it's this safe thing where you're there
for them, but it's it's not so intense. And then
they have the opportunity to open up a little bit,
and when they do, you don't pounce like a dog.
You stay a cat who's like welcoming the information, but
not you know, saying oh my god. And then you know,

(51:51):
because you don't want your kids to think you can't
handle my truth.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
So I'm you're not the person to tell.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah, and I feel that's the heart time to be
the cat because you're scared about them getting involved in
the worst, the worst things, like whether it's drugs or
you know, addiction to social media or getting involved in
the wrong circles, like that's the age at.

Speaker 4 (52:12):
Which it's going to happen.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
Yeah, it's terrifying.

Speaker 4 (52:14):
So yeah, it's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
So they're not and they're getting a driver's license. They
can drink now, you know, as you know, as they
get older, it's like it's almost like those are the
times where you want to be more hands on.

Speaker 3 (52:24):
And you are fit.

Speaker 2 (52:25):
That's why I say you're physically present, Like I think
toddlers and teenagers need you more present than anybody. But
we think teenagers are like off on their own and whatever.
But you're home, like if they're going to a party,
you're home to greet them and look into their eyes,
so you don't need to ask if they've been drinking,
because you will know when you hug them and look

(52:47):
in their eyes, and you can have a conversation in
a different kind of way than if you're sort of
like I'm out, you're out, you're older, you know, take
an uber, don't drive drunk.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
I'll see you tomorrow.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
So I think your presence is important, but the sense
that you're like kind of all over them verbally has
you have to pull back a little bit, and it's terrifying.
But if you've cultivated the relationship and you've set the
expectations from you know about substances and social media and whatever,

(53:22):
it's easier. But when something's really bothering them, what they
need is to know that they don't have to explain
it and they can just come to you and be sad.

Speaker 1 (53:33):
What's a good way to have that social media substance
conversation because that sounds like the.

Speaker 4 (53:38):
Worst nightmare for any parent, I know. It's like, how
do you have that conversation?

Speaker 1 (53:42):
And again it's like you can't define whether you're going
to get the right answer back or whatever. So what
kind of communication around those two specific things have been
effective for parents or that you've seen.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Okay, So one of the things, the most protective thing
is that you just have the conversations the relationship, and
so you're like, over time, it's never one conversation, and
hopefully before they're teenagers, you're starting to talk about what
these things are and what they do to your brain.
And with substances, for example, we know that before certain

(54:17):
ages your brain is so it's in such a growth
mode that you don't want to mess with that growth
by putting substances in it. So if they have any
thoughts about future and hopes and goals, now's the time
to talk about that and explain that, like at a
certain point, you're going to be able to drink at

(54:38):
a certain point depending on what state you're in You're
going to be able to smoke pot, but right now
your brain is at a vulnerable stage, and so it's
a bigger decision now, and in this household, it's not
on the table. And also, if you make a mistake,
I'm the person you come to because your safety matters

(55:00):
more to me than anything in the world. So I'm
never going You're never going to regret that. So I
think it's one of those things where it's both a limit,
a boundary, and a relationship and you're paying attention, and
so that's one the best friend. Parenting thing can be
problematic because you're like, well, I'd rather them drink at home,

(55:22):
or I'd rather them get their drugs from me, And
this is we know from the literature. It's just not
so you don't want them to feel like, you know,
we've sort of created a world where we want our
kids to make it's so easy that they don't even
have to push back.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
You're like handing them. Did you see Mean Girls the
movie the originally the original?

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Oh yeah, I love the reason you know, Tina fe
walks not Tina fe Amy Poehler walks in like with
with cocktails for all the girls and they're getting ready
and they're just like ew, it's like you don't you
You might crave connection and desperately want to give them
the thing so that they're sticking with you, but you're
still the parent, and there needs to be they need
to know that it's hard to do those things, you know,

(56:06):
like there are barriers so that you don't break the
rules overtly. So let's say they do end up drinking.
There's a difference between if your kid eventually ends up drinking,
because you've really made it clear they can't, so maybe
they've pushed it off. So now instead of at fourteen,
they're seventeen, and there's a difference between drinking where they're

(56:29):
just taking some SIPs of a white claw and binge drinking.
And you talk about that with them, like I can't
if I can smell it on you or see it,
that's a problem. But there's there's a message in there,
which is like, if you're going to make a mistake,
make the mistake moderately. And those are all the different

(56:50):
ways to sort of help lay the ground work for
them to do as best they can to keep safe.
But like you're not giving them the you know, the
permission and the carte blanche to just kind of do whatever.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Yeah, it's such a challenging balance.

Speaker 3 (57:05):
It's so hard.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
It's so hard. Like I was thinking about it when
I was a kid. If anything was off the table,
that was the most attractive thing.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
In the world.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
And I think that's very important to acknowledge, is like,
it's still going to be attractive. So if you set
no limits, the other side of it is there needs
to be something for a teenager to push back on.
So if you're like, I'm going to use an example
that's less fraut clothing. If you're like, you can wear

(57:33):
whatever you want, I don't care. And you see that
your child is going out to a party in like
something very revealing and you don't say anything, then they're like,
I'm gonna try it. I'm gonna I'm not even getting
pushed back. This must not be revealing enough. I'm going
to now wear something ridiculously like so revealing that it's

(57:55):
offensive even to me. But I'm gonna do it because
let's see what happens. And your parents says nothing, and
at a certain point it's like the parent is you're
supposed to put on a sweatshirt and hide it from
your parents.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Take the sweatshirt off and like know that this.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Is not something that is like their dream, but that
you can call them if you need them, and if
we make things so it's a balance because you need
to be rejecting of your parents. So make the limit
tight enough that there's, you know, something to reject and
there's something to do that's not dangerous.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
But also know your kid's temperament.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
And there are some kids where you have to frame
things differently because they're just like, oh, your no is
my yes. And I think that that's something to just
pay attention to because everybody's different and every kid is
going to be different.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I know. But that's a really interesting point about needing
to reject something and needing to have tension on something,
and it's almost like if you remove the tension.

Speaker 3 (58:54):
Completely, Yeah, what is there? What's there to do?

Speaker 4 (58:57):
What's there to do? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (58:58):
I know, that's that's fascinating. I want to talk at
the flip side, we're talking about discipline, talking about encouraging,
and I feel like the biggest thing people want to do,
at least the route I find, is wanting to raise
a confident child. Right. You don't want your children to
feel insecure about the way they look, the way they think,
the way they act. And that seems to be the

(59:18):
biggest challenge of the day with social media and everything else.
And so there's a real sense today of insecurity, envy, comparison,
feeling less than How do you raise a confident human?

Speaker 2 (59:36):
Well, I think there are two parts of confidence that
we can really cultivate, and then there's separately, like behavior
patterns that we can help along, like turning off social media,
like taking it away if it's really just like harming you.
So if you notice that you have a fifteen year
old and they're fixated on how certain things holding my

(01:00:00):
hand up, they're fixated on what naturally they're going to be,
but like some are more inclined than others, and it's
really starting to get them down. Say to them, how's
this is making you feel? Because what I'm noticing is
you're feeling worse and worse when you look at this.
So let's figure out a limit and I'll help you
because I'll just take the phone away even when you're

(01:00:22):
feeling like, oh, I really want to.

Speaker 3 (01:00:23):
Look at this.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
But it comes from this real compassion and then the
two things for confidence that we can do. The first
is remember that competence builds confidence, not praise, like telling
you they're amazing is not going to make them feel
like they're amazing. It's the competence, like helping them develop

(01:00:45):
the skills. And those skills don't have to be that
you're like a star violinists or tennis player. It can
be that you know how to cook or put the
dishes away, you know, just just.

Speaker 3 (01:00:56):
A functioning individual.

Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
And so we tend to do everything for our kids,
even if they're capable of doing it, but then praise
them as if that's building the confidence. And so I
think that's one thing, and the other thing is helping
them understand how they feel and how they are reading
the room, because then you start to go like, okay,

(01:01:21):
I can trust myself, and that is part of confidence
as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
That competence and praise peace, that's huge. I love the
way you said that because I've often thought about that
with so many of my friends, because I was quite
as shy and I would say, oh, somewhat, I was
in skerew about my weight growing up and to some
degree the color of my skin to like experiencing racism

(01:01:46):
growing up and things like that.

Speaker 4 (01:01:47):
And so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:49):
When I went to high school my secondary school is
we call it in England, my parents forced me to
go to public speaking and drama school and that was
somewhat of my worst nightmare and parts, but it was
really amazing because it built a competency that then became
really interesting and useful as I came to my teens
and all of a sudden, I felt like I had
a skill that I could use and implement and it

(01:02:13):
was really helpful in so many ways, and of course
has gone on to change my life. But I look
at that and I often tell some of my friends
who were parents, and I'll be like, I promise you
just work on a skill, because that changed my life.
And they can't imagine a world in which I was
shy or that I was insecure, because they're like, oh, Jay,
you must have you know, and I'm like, no, no, no,
I promise you, Like it was developing skills that gave

(01:02:35):
me confidence in myself. And You're right, they start really
small of you know, you have a skill, like I
know my wife has the skill of she's really good
at like techy stuff around the house, which I'm horrific
at and she like can fix the TV and fix
this and that, and like she can do that because
her and her dad used to do that and she
has a competence around it, and that as a kid
was something she knew she was good at. And I

(01:02:57):
think it's so interesting how we often think that even
bonding time with our children has to be social. H
And of course that's awesome, and I wonder I actually
want to ask you about that, like how it because
you're it's interesting what you said. And obviously my parents
outsource the skill development because my dad would hate teaching

(01:03:17):
me math because that was not a good good My
dad's really good at math and I'm not so good,
so it was great to outsource it to another teacher.
But how do you see that parent child relationship based
on social versus skill development and what's good to outsource,
what's good to in house?

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
Well, I think if you have to know yourself, like
if you're going to get frustrated with your kid because
they are not as easy to explain math to, you're
probably not the best person to help them along with
the math. But if you have something that you see
even a kernel of interest in your kid, like they're
interested in seeing how you fix the TV. Spend the

(01:03:56):
time helping them learn how to do that, like you're
it's a shared experience together.

Speaker 3 (01:04:01):
It's a shared skill building even learn how to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:05):
That teaches them growth mindset, like I'm not really good
at this, but it looks like for first of all,
it's great if your kids actually have a skill like
mine are obviously better at tech than I am because
they're in it.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
They this is their native tongue.

Speaker 2 (01:04:18):
So my seventeen year old is for sure the chief
technology officer of the family, and like anything tech that happens,
I'm like, please fix this. But it's interesting for her.
And if that's interesting for her, what I could do,
I don't. But what I could do is say, teach
me how to get better at this, tell me what

(01:04:39):
you know. And one other way to get really confident
is to teach, like, teach what you know. That's why
it's great when you know older kids in school teach
the younger kids.

Speaker 3 (01:04:49):
It's so awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
So that is the other side of skill building, is
like allowing them to then, you know, show you what
they've learned earned and really pay attention to it. And
you know, checking in with what they're interested in. The
way attention works is you have to care, you have
to be interested. So if you're trying to get your

(01:05:12):
kid interested in something and skilled at violin and they
just are not interested, it's not gonna It's the thing
that you're looking for is for them to know. Whether
it's bead making or tennis or violin, it doesn't matter.
It's the act of working on something and getting better

(01:05:32):
at it that.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Builds the confidence.

Speaker 4 (01:05:33):
And it doesn't matter what it is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
It doesn't matter. So we have to like let go
of that investment. I mean, certainly there are going to
be some things because it's just what we're going for.
Like I didn't know how to play tennis growing up,
and I am so annoyed, Like it just bothers me
so much. Socially, it bothers me as a grown woman.
I'm like, I can't hang, I can't do the fun
things my friends are doing. So I force my kids
to play tennis, not competitively, but just like you need

(01:05:57):
to know how to do this. But and so, so
I think you get a pass for a couple of
those things, and you just have to acknowledge your kids like,
I don't care if you're interested in this is a
me problem, not a you problem, but in general, like
let their interest lead.

Speaker 4 (01:06:11):
Yeah, yeah, no I did. I can relate to that
so well.

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
My parents forced me to learn piano and it was
the most At that time. I was like, I hate this,
and now I'm so sad because I think the piano
is one of the most beautiful instruments.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
And I look back and going, God, they were right.
Why did I throw it away?

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
And and you're going to have those natural experiences. They
allowed me to quit because I was so hell bent
on no, I don't want to do this, and they
saw that, and so they allowed that to happen.

Speaker 4 (01:06:39):
And now I regret it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:40):
And so but that's okay, yeah, because now you'll just remember.

Speaker 4 (01:06:43):
Yeah, exactly exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
It's it's it's interesting how I feel like it's such
a I've been reflecting on, hopefully at one point, being
a parent in my life a lot, and all I
keep coming back to is this. A few things that
keep coming to me are humility, releasing control, and the
acceptance that I don't always know what's best or right,

(01:07:07):
and allowing for someone else to evolve and grow just
as I've had to despite my parents' best interests, And
that sounds like the most beautiful lesson and the biggest
challenge at the same time, because it's the thing you
do want to control the most, yet can't.

Speaker 2 (01:07:24):
Oh, I know, it's the thing you want to control
the most because it's the most important thing. And it's like,
if we can accept that we can only control ourselves,
our parenting flourishes.

Speaker 1 (01:07:40):
And that, in one sense, is the harder answer, because
we always think we can change things outside of ourselves
quicker than we think we need to change.

Speaker 2 (01:07:51):
Yeah, that is the craziest thing about my job is
that so much of it is and coologists in whatever
area of psychology they're in, because there's so many different branches.
And I'm not a clinical psychologist, but even clinical psychologists
who are sitting, you know, a lot of times they're

(01:08:12):
meant to be working with children, but what ends up
happening is they're working with the adults. I'm only working
with the adults, but I think it's because adults can
work on themselves and control themselves, and we have this
inclination to want to control our kids.

Speaker 3 (01:08:33):
Again.

Speaker 2 (01:08:33):
It's all with the most love and hope but we can't,
and so that's not you know, like that's not the
best use of our energy.

Speaker 4 (01:08:44):
Lisa has been such a joy talking to you today.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Honestly, I feel like I've learned so much, I've reflected
so much, and I want everyone who's listening and watching
to know we have simply skimmed the surface of some
of the insane and incredible topics and methods they are
inside this book. If you've been listening and watching so far,
make sure you go and order The Five Principles of
Parenting by doctor Eliza Pressman, host of the Raising Good

(01:09:09):
Humans podcast as well Alisa. We end every on Purpose
episode with a final five and these have to be
answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

Speaker 4 (01:09:19):
So these are.

Speaker 1 (01:09:20):
Your final five The question. The first question is what
is the best parenting advice you've ever heard, received, or given?

Speaker 3 (01:09:28):
All feelings are welcome, all behaviors are not.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
What is the second question? What is the worst parenting
advice you've ever received or heard?

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
You just want your kids to be happy?

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Question number three, what's something you used to believe to
be true around parenting, but recently you've changed your mind
about that?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
I would be better?

Speaker 4 (01:09:55):
Wow, that's beautiful. That's beautiful. Question BEFO for.

Speaker 1 (01:10:01):
If you could encourage every parent to build one skill
that would help them become a better parent for good humans?

Speaker 4 (01:10:09):
What would that one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
Skill be one of the five that makes you the
most uncomfortable of relationship reflection, regulation, rules, and repair.

Speaker 4 (01:10:19):
Yes, love that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:21):
And fifth and final question, if you could create one
law that everyone in the world had to follow, what
would it be?

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
Hunt for the good?

Speaker 4 (01:10:32):
That's beautiful. I love that, Doctor Eliza Pressman. Everyone.

Speaker 1 (01:10:37):
The Five Principles of Parenting is the book. Go and
grab your copy right now. We'll put the link in
the comment section, and please tag me and Alisa on Instagram,
on TikTok on Twitter. Let us know, sorry X, let
us know what is resonating with you, what you're trying,
what's working for you. I think, as you saw today,
Alisa is really giving us a lot of stuff to

(01:10:59):
play with, stuff to interact with. There's no right or
wrong way, There's no good or bad way here. It's
about figuring out how sensitive you can be, how close
you can get to the human in front of you,
how you can learn to balance and play that middle path,
and so as you are trying all of this great
insight out. Please do share it with us. We'd love
to see it. I'd love to thank you again, Elisa

(01:11:20):
for doing this, for being present here with me today.
I really enjoyed sharing this energy with you, and I
really believe this is going to help a lot of people.

Speaker 3 (01:11:27):
So thank you so much, Gosh, thank you so much.
This has been incredible.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with
doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your life by
changing your brain.

Speaker 5 (01:11:40):
If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with
a healthy brain.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
You know.

Speaker 5 (01:11:46):
I've had the blessing or the curse to scam over
a thousand convicted felons and over one hundred murderers, and
their brains are very damage