Gabrielle Bernstein: The Simple 4-Step Method to Heal Anxiety, Stop Overthinking, and Stop People-Pleasing for Good

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The aspects of ourselves that cause the most drama and
most chaos in our life are the most hated aspects
are actually the parts of us that are working so
hard to protect us.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the place you
come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest
is one of my dear friends, one of my favorites,
and someone that is so deeply important to me. And
I'll tell you about something special in a second. Today's
guest is the one and only Gabrielle Bernstein, number one
New York Times best selling author on multiple occasions, spiritual

(00:34):
teacher and speaker, known for making personal growth accessible and practical.
Gabby has written multiple New York Times best selling books,
including The Universe Has Your Back. Her latest book, though
Self Help, brings internal family systems therapy into everyday life.
If you have no idea what that is, I promise

(00:55):
you it is going to change your life. Stick around
for this episode because Gabby is a lead reading voice
on wellness stages around the world and continues to inspire
millions through her talks, courses, and online community. Please welcome
my dear friend, Gabby Bernstein. Gabby it's so great to
have you back. I love that we were just talking

(01:15):
about how the first time we met was literally nine
years ago to a couple of weeks from now, and
I remember I had just launched this brand new show
at Half Post called Follow the Reader. You were at
the top of our booking list. You said yes, and
I must have interviewed you in my second week at

(01:37):
the job, yep, and we became instant friends. You became
such a dear mentor someone that I turned to for advice.
And I'm so grateful to you because from day one,
when I literally had nothing to offer you, you were supportive, kind, helpful.
You're the real deal. And I love saying that about
people because it's very rare. So thank you and thank
you for being here.

Speaker 1 (01:58):
I walked out of that interview and I looked at
my publicist and I said to her, first, I'm going
to be friends with that guy, Like that guy's my friend,
and second I'm like he's a superstar. I was like,
just watch this career blow up and here we are.

Speaker 2 (02:10):
So I love you, so grateful, and I'm so grateful
you put this book together. Because my wife actually interview
her on her podcasts and the first thing she said
to me, she was like, oh my gosh, I had
no idea what internal family systems is, and I have
no idea how powerful it was until I spoke to
Gabby and she was raving about it, like she couldn't.
I was like, yeah, I love Gabby obviously, but she couldn't.

(02:32):
It was something that really impacted her. And I think
that's what this book has done. I think that's what
you sharing of IFS has done. Please for all of
us who may not be familiar with it. What is
Internal family systems therapy, How does it work, and what's
the goal?

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Internal Family systems therapy, which is also known as IFS,
is the therapy that changed my life. And it is
a practice of befriending the act of parts of ourselves,
the aspects of ourselves that often we might like the
least so the parts of ourselves that can be hyper
vigilant or addicted or extreme in any way, or the

(03:13):
belief systems and patterns that hold us back from what
we really want. Oftentimes we want to just shut those
parts of ourselves down right, Oh I hate that part
of myself, or I don't want to be there again,
or how did I end up in that situation again?
It's about befriending those parts of ourselves and healing and
accessing this relationship to these parts rather than making them
bad or wrong, but starting to get into relationship with

(03:37):
these aspects of ourselves, because really, Jay, they're just little
children inside you.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
Saying that, I mean, hearing that just now has literally
given me goosebumps because it's so profound, because I feel
like most of our self help efforts, or most of
our self work efforts as of now, are all about
never feeling that way again exactly. So It's like, how
do I never the feel anxious ever again? How do
I completely block out the inner critic? How do I

(04:06):
never experience this ever again? In my life?

Speaker 1 (04:09):
You're nailing it pretty much. What happens is is as
young children, we have these experiences of trauma with a
big tea or trauma with a small tea. We all
have them. It doesn't matter how big or small. We've
all had them. Maybe you were bullied on the playground,
or maybe you had extreme trauma like an abuse or
a parent that was alcoholic, no matter what that moment
in time was as a child, or multiple moments in time,

(04:31):
those experiences of feeling terror or unlovable or inadequate, not
good enough, those were such extreme feelings that we would
do whatever it took to protect against them. Just like
you said, I never want to feel that again. So
what we did was you start to build up protection mechanisms.
And those protection mechanisms could be like controlling, or they

(04:53):
could be people pleasing or perfectionism, or in my case,
control was a big one age or then addiction. And
these protection mechanisms become these aspects of ourselves that really
run the show. They're called protector parts, and so in IFS,
the whole intention is to start to get to know

(05:14):
these protector parts, soften to them, recognize them, and these
protection mechanisms that we've been living with for as long
as we can remember, to recognize them as young little
children inside who need the care of our inner self,
of our higher self. And that's what in IFS is
called self, which is why the book is called self help.
And I mean go on and on about the inner

(05:36):
workings of self help, which we'll do today. But really
my intention with this book, Jay, was to democratize and
demystify and simplify this extraordinary therapy that my friend, doctor
Richard Schwartz created, and I went on to be trained
in the model, and after doing the therapy for a

(05:56):
decade for myself with my own therapist and then getting
trained in it, it was very clear to me that
I was going to do what I do, which is
translate and simplify, and that's what this is. This is
a self help practice based on the principles of IFS.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
It's so counterintuitive to what I think we've been told
for so long, and so it takes a second. But
you said something at the start of the interview a
few moments ago about how it actually changed your life
and what was it that took you and drew you
to IFS. How did that come to be in your life,
and where were you at in your life when this
became something that was relevant for you.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
It was a real accident. I didn't know that it
was there. I was with the same therapist for about
seven stepond or eight years, and midway through my therapy,
I actually remembered in a dream trauma from my childhood,
extreme trauma, big T trauma. In that journey of undoing
that trauma, she began practicing IFS with me I didn't

(06:52):
know that we were doing it. I just was doing
the thing that she wanted me to do. And it's
actually really hard for me to do at the time,
because she was wanting me to start to tap into
these aspects of myself and start to get to know,
get into relationship with the addict or the anxiety, or
the extreme patterns of rage or the controller, which were

(07:13):
all protection mechanisms that had been blocking me from remembering
that trauma. And I remember it was about twenty twenty.
I was at home, as we all were, and I'm
watching this YouTube video with this man, doctor Richard Schwartz.
I just stumbled upon it, and I'm watching this video
and I'm like, this guy's talking about this therapy he created.
And as I'm hearing him talk about it, I'm realizing
that's the thing I've been doing for all these years

(07:35):
with my therapist. And it was so exciting to me.
And it was just around the time that I was
starting my own podcast, so I reached out to him
and he was one of the third people I had
on the show because it was just my mission to
uncover as much as I could about this therapy that
was really healing me. And then Dick really encouraged me
to go on and get the training, and so as
one of the last people to be able to do
the facilitator training, that isn't a therapist, it isn't a

(07:57):
licensed therapist. So it was definitely divinely time. And I
think when you get trained in something and you know this,
when you do the training and you undergo what it
would mean to be a facilitator of that work, it
starts to get into your system in a way that
it benefits you even more. I think we borrow the
benefits as teachers. We start to experience the work in

(08:19):
a different way, becomes so integrated, and that accelerated my
experience of IFS, which then made me realize, you know,
I can't just expect that everyone's going to be able
to get to this therapy because they won't be able
to afford it, or there's not enough therapists out there,
or they won't even know that it's there. So I've
got to make it easy and accessible for people to use.
And particularly right now, people need resources and they need

(08:41):
tools to access on the fly, and we need an
inner sense of safety inside.

Speaker 2 (08:48):
So where do people stop to start?

Speaker 1 (08:50):
You have to just first recognize that there are parts
of yourself that are activated to just you know, if
you've ever said something like, there's a part of me
it gets really angry and rageful when my wife does X,
or a part of me checks out when I'm around
my parents, or a part of me is really defensive
at work when I'm around authority. Figures those parts of

(09:13):
yourself are not who you are, they are parts of
who you are, and they're protection mechanisms. And so having
this experience of being the witness without any judgment of
these aspects of yourself that may actually be aspects of
yourself that you've really judged and really hated for a
long time. But being that non judgmental witness of these

(09:33):
parts of yourself and recognizing how long has that part
been around every time you're going to say as long
as I can remember, since I was a kid, since
I was five, and then asking yourself, Okay, well, what
is that part really trying to do here? It's trying
to protect you. And so that's the first step is

(09:53):
to recognize that the aspects of ourselves that cause the
most drama and most chaos in our life or the
most oftentimes hated aspects are actually the parts of us
that are working so hard to protect us. And you know,
I've been sober now twenty years, twenty years right now,
and I can look back at the cocaine addict part

(10:13):
at twenty five years old and just look at her
with so much love and so much compassion and just
say thank you for working so hard to keep down
these impermissible feelings that I was not ready to face.

Speaker 2 (10:28):
So it starts by spotting a pattern, yeah, that you
see repeated that you don't like about yourself.

Speaker 1 (10:36):
A belief, maybe a belief, a pattern, a behavior that
you find to be extreme in some way that's causing
some issues in your life or oftentimes the parts of ourselves.
And I'll just give a bunch of examples. So for me,
the controller, we have the anxiety, the addict. There is
a part that I named called knives out, and it

(10:57):
was really like, if you mess with me, knives are
coming out. And she's a really unburdened part. Now that
part is doing okay, But for a long time it
was like I could be the greatest person, but if
you messed with me, it's just like this defensiveness was
going to just come out in such an extreme way,
and even parts of ourselves that might be praised. For example,
for years, I was just sort of a workaholic, and

(11:18):
people would be like, wow, Gabby, you write a book
a year and you're doing so much, and you'd be
praised for these aspects of yourself, But meanwhile it was
destroying me. And you've known me through that time. You've
seen me through those sort of destructive eras of my
life where I was just pounding and grinding, I was running,
I was protecting against deep feelings that I wasn't ready
to face. And so these aspects might not necessarily be

(11:40):
perceived as bad, but they're causing and creating chaos nonetheless.
And the thing that's really important for me about this
work is that it's very spiritual work. And as you know,
all my work up to this point has been really
grounded in spiritual beliefs and faith and my own faith
and my own truth around my spiritual practic this. But

(12:00):
what's gorgeous about this is it's really marrying therapeutic processes
with a spiritual experience. And I can get to that
that's what self is.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that. I mean, I was
going to ask you that you're saying a lot of
these protection mechanisms they ultimately bury this self.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
They are blocking that's right, yes, Because there's this beautiful
quote by IFS practitioner, and I'll just i'll share it.
It's that self is like the sun behind the clouds,
and when the clouds dissipate, the sun begins to emerge naturally.
So you've had anyone watching has had experience. Anyone listening

(12:45):
or watching has had experiences of self, those moments when
you're just in complete flow, when you're playing pickleball with Lewis,
when you're cooking with Roddy, when you're you're you're in
self right now, you looked me in the eye before
this at this show started, you asked me one of
the most beautiful questions. I almost started crying before we began.

(13:06):
That's your self energy, it's calm, it's courageous, it's curious,
it's connected, it's clear, creative, I think I said, and
confident is these sea quality, compassionate and it's almost an
oftentimes very childlike wonder. It's just just. And the reason actually,

(13:28):
I think that you're such an excellent interviewer is because
you interview with a lot of self, the curiosity, the connection, clarity,
you know, that's also what comes through. That's what people
feel even healed in the presence of self, and so
that self energy all of us have, but we blocked it.
We've blocked it with all these protectors. But the good
news is it never left us.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
Yeah, and that's what you're saying. We've all had these glimpses, yes,
of our compassionate self, our creative self, our kind self. Yes,
And you're so right that all of our triggers blocked that.
Even I was thinking about this just how trying to
think of someone who spoke to the other day, who
you could tell there was this almost fight inside.

Speaker 1 (14:10):
Of them where their.

Speaker 2 (14:14):
Insecurity about something was unlocking their ego, when in reality
they wanted to follow their higher self and be compassionate.
And I think that's what we all go through. I
think the truth is Gaby that and we can both
speak to this. You've done this work for so long
now in helping so many millions of people across the world.

(14:36):
People are exhausted right now, and doing this work requires
a lot of effort and energy and time and courage.
How do people bring themselves to actually do this, to
unlock their self when it just feels like it's so
far blocked and it's so far removed, and we feel
so far away from feeling that creative, compassionate, powerful self

(15:01):
that we all have and that we will are well.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
I think if someone's coming to this with that energy
of I don't have time for this, or this is
too much, or I'd ask that person, well, how is
it all working out for you this way? Because we
think it's hard, We think that self help practices are hard,
or spiritual practice is hard, But the truth is is

(15:25):
that not having that foundation is much more difficult. And
not having that foundation in this critical time, this is
a very critical time. If we don't have a faith
of our own understanding, or a therapeutic or a spiritual
or self help practice of our own understanding, or a
tool of accessing some kind of interconnection to inner wisdom, inspiration,

(15:48):
intuition in our guidance. If we don't have that right now,
we're going to be like a fish out of water.
We're going to be flailing around. We're going to feel
really unstable, really uncertain, really anxious, and really scared. And
I think that's most people right now, anyone watching or
listening you to this interview, is on the track of

(16:10):
wanting more. So they've already begun the first step. They
would not be following you if they weren't interested in
seeking their ability to self soothe, to self correct, to
feel a sense of safety inside. So they're already ninety
percent of the way there because they're listening. But the
practice that I've created, that I've outlined here is taking

(16:33):
this big body of work that does oftentimes feel like
a lot to go into therapy every single week, to
sit down, to open up to some of those deepest,
most vulnerable parts of ourselves. And so this is really
a way to scratch the surface and to do it
safely because I'm not going to those exiled parts and

(16:56):
not going to that little traumatized child. We're going to
the day to day mechanism.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Yeah. Yeah, And it's a.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Four step practice. It's a simple four stet practice.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
So what do we do once we've identified this pattern, Yes,
whether it's anxiety, people pleasing, avoidance control, what do you
then do once you've found this pattern that has been
a protector but ultimately is the block of himself?

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Yeah? So these patterns are the way that we check out.
And so the practice in the book is called the
four step check in process, and it's checking in with
the part and so the if you have enough space
between that stimulus and the reaction. So let's say you
are at work and your boss triggers you, and you're like, Okay,
I got to get out of this office right now,
and I got to go into the bathroom, and I

(17:40):
got to check in with myself because otherwise I'm going
to do something I'm gonna regret. So you step away,
or you typically stepping away is very valuable, or you
maybe the next day you want to check in because
it's still lingery. You get out of the instant of
the trigger, and then you choose to check in instead
of check out. So it's focusing your attention inward as
the first step just looking inside, just even closing your

(18:02):
eyes and focusing your attention inside. The second step is curiosity.
So that's where you start to just tease it out
a little bit and you'll say, Okay, where does that
part of me live in my body? Where do I
feel it? And you'll notice it's in my jar, or
it's in my stomach or my chest or my shoulders
or wherever it lives. You'll ask a few more questions,
are there any thoughts or feelings or sensations attached with

(18:25):
this belief or pattern, And then you'll hear you know
I'm not good enough, or you know I can, or
maybe you'll have an image. You know, I see myself
and I'm five years old and the bully on the
playground is yelling at me, or whatever that storyline was,
and or you know, my dad just left or whatever
the experience. Maybe you'll see the image or you'll hear words.
So you just keep teasing it out, just noticing thoughts, feeling, sensations,

(18:49):
what's happening inside. And once you have a little bit
of connection, remember that self, you're going to connect deeper
with compassion, which is the third step, and you're going
to ask the part not yourself. You're asking the part
of the activated part of you, what do you need?
And Jay, it'll be blown away. The part will say
I need to dance, I need to rest, I need

(19:10):
to play. Because what do these parts need? They need
to be kids again, they need to return to that
natural role of being innocent, or I need love. And
then once you have that third step. The fourth step
is very easy, and it's really checking for self. So
you're going to check in for those c qualities. Do
I feel calm? Do I feel more compassionate? Do I

(19:31):
feel connected? Do I have some clarity? Do I feel
a little courageous to have creative energy buzzying inside of me?
Oftentimes you'll very quickly feel calmer, you feel some courage
and clarity is a big one that comes through quickly too.
And so those four steps rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.
And I've prescribed this. I've looked at my audiences and

(19:52):
I've said, okay, listen, what about one minute a day?
Four steps is bothering you? And everyone's like, nothing, I
can do that. And so that's it, one minute a
day steps. Because the thing is, once you do this
one time, then you can realize, oh wait, I can
do this maybe in an hour from now, or I
can do it before I'm going to bed when I'm
having anxiety, or I can do it after that deep
conversation with my partner that really activated me. I can

(20:13):
keep coming back to this really simply without feeling like
it's a burden. It can be as little or as
much as you want. But I've always taught as a
metaphysical teacher that the miracles that we experience in our
life for the experiences when we change the way we
experience something, not that the things outside of us change,

(20:36):
but that our experience of our experience changes, and that's
what this will offer.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
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(22:17):
that we're going back to being guided from within, yes,
And I feel that's somewhere where we've lost in society,
where it's constantly been or your parents taught, or your
friend's thought, or your family thinks. Now what social media thinks,
and we're so overexposed to everyone else's opinion, and it's

(22:39):
so common for us to ask questions about what we
should do with our life in the group chat, you know,
trying to get someone else's opinion to give us the answer.
And I think we've lost the ability to understand that
all of the answers are right there within if we
were simply to sit with ourselves. Your body will tell
you, your heart will tell you, your mind will tell tell you.

(22:59):
And this practice really allows you to do that again.
So it's not like here's a fix it orld situation.
It will tell you something different every time when someone
does it for the first time, How can they do
it in a way that they have an experience where
they get a taste that it's real. Because I think
when we hear these things and you know what the

(23:20):
truth is today, I've been thinking about this a lot,
and you're you're the right person to ask this because
you've shared so many great pieces of advice over the years.
I feel everyone knows what they have to do, but
we don't actually do it properly, and so we never
have the qualitative experience that convinces us we should keep
doing it. Whereas when you've had that qualitative experience, whether

(23:42):
it's an amazing meditation, whether it's the four step practice,
once you've had that qualitative experience and you've felt the impact,
you'll do it again and again and again. But the
first time, how can someone really lock in the first
time they do this.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Self begets more self. So the first way to step
in is to look at your life and ask yourself,
is this what I want? Is this it? I think
that those are really magic words.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
Is this?

Speaker 1 (24:10):
It? Is this all I've got here? I want more
than this? Even just saying I want to change, I
want more. Everyone listening is in some way, shape or form,
wanting some aspect of change. And that desire is there,
and that desire wouldn't be planted in your heart if
it wasn't ready to come forth, if it wasn't ready

(24:32):
to be birthed. So I think that that's the responsibility
that we have to give ourselves, is to ask ourselves,
you know, this is that beautiful Mary Oliver quote. If
this is our one simple life? Is I'm batching it?
But this is this one beautiful life that we have?
And am I going to take it to the max?
Am I going to live to the highest and the best?

(24:55):
And that's one question, And that's one place to come
to this or the other place that there may be
people listening that are hitting a massive bottom in their life.
And for those folks, Jay, it's going to be a
lot easier to pick up this book and start a
lot easier because when we are there's that beautiful roomy quote.
The wound is the place where the light enters you.

(25:15):
When you are in that moment of hitting some kind
of bottom, or you're having that that addiction come to
an end, or you're in the divorce, or you're having
a crisis at work, or you've lost the job, or
you've gotten the diagnosis. Those are the moments when the
light enters you. So the question you want to ask
yourself is am I willing to do whatever it takes

(25:37):
to get to great? Am I willing to do whatever
it takes to feel great? And that's the path I've
been on. I've been on. I want to get to great.
I've lived through a lot of a lot of different
difficult experiences, as all of us have, and I've just
been on a pursuit of feeling great. This is and
this this interesting thing that I heard in a twelve
set meeting early in my recovery was if they want,

(26:00):
if you want what they have, do what they do.
So sometimes that's just enough to be listening and be like, well,
Jay Jay and Roddy did that, you know? Or you know,
if you want what they have, do what they do.
There's a reason that somebody is in And when I
say what they have, I don't mean the external things,
I mean the inner piece. If you want what they have,

(26:20):
do what they do. And the thing that happens that
you said that was also quite interesting, is that why
this is a spiritual practice. It's because when you start
to reflect inside and start to tend to these protection mechanisms,
these burdened parts, they start to feel seen, like what

(26:43):
do child? What does a child need? Child needs to
be seen, soothed, loved, cared, common, compassionate energy. So it
starts to feel like you have this internal parent inside
and you realize, as Dick Schwartz says, that you are
the one you've been waiting for, that all of the
external validation or love or connection or support, all that

(27:08):
outside stuff that you've been seeking to find completion and
safety is actually inside of you. And I know that's
something that people always say in spiritual you'll really experience
that with this what's the balance do you think, Gabi
of how much external validation and how much self validation
we need?

Speaker 2 (27:29):
Like does external validation play any part in our ability
to self validate? Or do you believe it's a full
self validation process and external validation is should be irrelevant
at some point.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
I can really speak for my own experience. The more
self I've accessed inside, the more self connection I have
to that inner parent, that inner wisdom. The less external
validation I need. I don't need it and I don't
a human so it's not like I know, honestly, Jay,
I don't really think I need it. I don't feel

(28:02):
like I'm grasping or looking or needing. And I think
the other irony is that the more self that you
have access to, the more self you attract. So the
more calm, connected, compassionate energy you bring into your life,
so you do get that love and that connection because
you are always receiving back what you are vibrating out.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
And so the more you access self, the more you
the more you become that point of attraction for more
self in your life.

Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah. No, I love the answer because I've been talking
to a lot of friends about that recently, about this
idea of if you have the power to self validate
and self to soothe and self regulate and honor your
hard work and intensity, then you won't crave it from others.
And what I was explaining to someone was that any

(28:49):
time I've wanted someone to validate me externally, they can
never fully satisfy my need for it because they haven't
lived my life, and in this same way, I haven't
lived theirs, so I can't validate them effectively either, because
I haven't been up with them on those sleepless nights.
I haven't gone through the trauma that they've gone through.

(29:12):
And so even if I'm to say, well done, you
did great, that's amazing, it will still never fully satiate
their desire for validation, because, as you just quoted Dick Schwartz,
that you're the one you've been waiting for. It's only
when I sit with myself and I cry at the

(29:32):
thought of everything I've been through and honor myself for
every way I've showed up for myself, whether it's my body,
my mind, my heart, and my soul, that's the only
time when I'll actually be satisfied. And I've noticed that
again and again, so I completely agree with you. The
point isn't that I don't appreciate external validation. I do.
The point isn't that I'm not inspired when I'm validated externally.

(29:55):
I am. But the only type of validation that really
really like affects me deep in my heart, and my
gout is when it's coming from me. That's right, because
I have all the details. I have the record books,
I have the files and the notes on every difficult
moment I've been through, just as you do for yourself.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
We are the ones we've been waiting for. I had
the experience just yehsterday, a really epic experience where I
was My Sonny is a six and a half years
old now, and so we belong to this really sweet
lake club in our community in the countryside, and it's
like nineteen fifties and there's these docks and grills and

(30:36):
it's kind of like the dirty or your sweatpants are
the bed the cooler you are there, and clay tennis
courts and it's just really adylic and my kids at
the age now where he can just like run around
and do his thing, and I'm and he's a great swimmer,
and I'm not stressed out about what's going on, so
I'm like, go do you man, And I'm sitting on
the dock by myself. My husband was out for a drive.

(30:56):
I'm sitting I just played some tennis. I'm sitting on
the dock. I've got this new book in my hand,
I'm in my you know, my red bathing suit. I've
got my iced coffee next to me. It's like like
there's like it's dirty all over the dog, but I
didn't care. And I was just sitting there on this
like cozy chair and I'm looking at the water and
I had this incredible energy just pour through me. This

(31:19):
energy was just like just spirit. It was spirit coming through.
I mean, that's the way I would just define this.
And this just self energy just so connected, so in
the moment, so present, there wasn't anything else that I
was thinking about or trying to get to or trying
to do, and it was just this moment of whoa,

(31:39):
this is what we've been training for. It just flood
in and that isn't a fleeting moment. That's how we
can live our lives. We can live not all day.
Every day. We're going to be in self. We're going
to get activated, We're going to get triggered. The best
of us are going to get triggered. But it's the
trigger has become less less. What one was years would

(31:59):
be days or minutes or five seconds, and we start
to access more of that presence and that taste of
that energy, that self energy, you want more of it.
And also I think that there's this thing I always
call spiritual proof when you have an experience of something
where you say, oh my god, I just did that
four step thing and I actually feel a little bit calmer.

(32:21):
And Gaby said, all I need is to be a
little bit calmer, and then I've done the job.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
I've done this.

Speaker 1 (32:25):
If I even feel the slightest molecule of self, I've
done the work. That experience of that molecule of self
is something you crave. You want more of it. It's
like going to the gym, you want more of it.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, to keep practicing it. Yeah, What's one of the
ways people experience a protector or a trigger is self
judgment and self criticism in a critic, how do you
even reconcile the fact that self judgment is a protector
in some way?

Speaker 1 (32:55):
Self judgment is a huge protector. Actually wrote a book
called Judgment Detox. Yeah, a little bit ahead of myself there,
because it's very much what this work is about.

Speaker 2 (33:03):
It.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
It's judgment is a way of judging ourselves is definitely
a protector because if there is something big, too uncomfortable
to access, that's being activated feelings of being inadequate, unlovable.
We are going to do anything we can to numb

(33:25):
that pain. So one we're going to judge others so
we don't have to feel the pain inside. Or two
will judge ourselves, start nitpicking and judging ourselves because it's
easier to judge and attack ourselves than it is to
feel the pain. And what happens with this beautiful practice
is that as you start to tend inward, you recognize
that you don't have to reexperience the pain. You can

(33:47):
just be present with what the protector needs in that moment,
and in that moment it can just soften. And it's
these moment by moment unburdenings of the pain of that
that you've held on to you for so long.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
So what do we do with the self critic through
this four step practice?

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Great question. So you'd notice yourself in that self critic
or that attack or judgment, and you would have again,
you have to have enough space between the attack and
the response to it. And sometimes it might happen till
the next day when you have a little bit of
a of a judgment hangover or whatever it is, but
you notice it and you say, okay, you know, I'm
going to check in, And so you'd check in with

(34:26):
the judgment and you'd focus your attention towards that judgment inside,
so instead of being in your head, you'd get into
your internally and I like to close my eyes with this.
I can also suggest that people do this with journaling.
So at the top of the page, you could say,
I choose to check in with my judgment and then
the compassionate, the curious connection, that curiosity coming inside. You'd

(34:47):
ask the judgment, what are you trying to tell me?
What are you trying to reveal? Because the judgment will
then speak And this is really helpful. You asked earlier,
what's a great way to start journaling. It's a great
way to do this because if you're just journaling with it,
you'll let your pen flow and that stream of consciousness
will start to come forward into the page and you'll
be blown away what the part will start to say.

(35:08):
Just journal with the part, So you ask you what
do you need? And then you'll just journal, journal, journal,
and then it's going to you know, carry on with
the four questions. So check in curiosity, compassion, and what
do you need and then start to journal more. How
do I feel now?

Speaker 2 (35:22):
Yeah, it's almost starting to treat ourselves. You you said
this earlier, and it's resonating more as you explained the practice,
this idea of treating those parts of yourself as small children. Yes,
And it's like if a child was crying, the first
thing you'd say is, hey, what's up? Like, how's what's
going on? Like how are you feeling? Like what happened?

(35:42):
Are you okay? Whereas when we see the parts of
ourselves crying inside or kicking up a farce, we're just like,
go away, go away, go away. I don't want to
talk to you.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
This is an actual question I asked my audiences. Is
you know, if you're if a little child in your
life was having a hard moment, I'm really scared or
I'm really activated, the first thing you would do is
calm connection your self. Energy would rise to the occasion,
calm connected, curious, what would you need? But the way
that we speak to ourselves is insane. It's horrible. We

(36:15):
are so mean to ourselves and so aggressive with ourselves
and wanting to shut it down. That's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
Why do we find it easier to suthe others and
not sue ourselves.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Well, because we need, we believe, or unconsciously, I don't
think we know this, but we unconsciously believe that we
need these protectors to stay alive. So I'll give an example.
I had very severe codependent addiction before I was a
drug addict, and in that codependent addiction, I literally had
a belief that if I'm not in a relationship, I

(36:49):
will die. It wasn't nice. I wouldn't say that out loud,
but it felt like that. It felt like death.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
You behaved like that.

Speaker 1 (36:55):
I literally like, oh my god, if I was clinging
and fawning. And if that doesn't really she was the work,
I want to find another one. And I was actually
talking with a woman yesterday W's who identifies as a
codependent and has a very serious addiction to this one
partner that she's been trying to release and she keeps
going back and she keeps going back and she's like,
it's just such a drug. And I said, well, what

(37:17):
does it feel like if you were to end it?
And she's like, I literally feel like I would die.
And that's the thing with these protectors is that we
don't realize it, but they actually are protecting us from
feelings that we think and believe inside unprocessed trauma, feelings
that we believe will take us down. We believe they

(37:40):
will take us down. And it's only when we start
to self soothe and access a little bit of that
self inside that we can start to realize no, no, no, no,
actually there's some safety here. I feel like I can
actually be a little bit more resilient than I thought,
or it's not that terrifying to go there. I can

(38:01):
go there and I can be okay on the other side.
But we have to have that spiritual proof in order
to actually have even any desire to keep going.

Speaker 2 (38:10):
Yeah, I think that's that's that part where I'm like,
the first time you do this, for anyone who's listening
and watching, really give it. You're all because yes, an
experienced spiritual proof early, and as soon as you have that,
you just set because you now know what you're working towards.
Not that you want the same feeling or the same
emotion will be different, but you know the process works.

(38:32):
And I think sometimes it's almost like everyone knows they
need to work out and everyone knows they need to
take supplements and vitamins. But when you don't do that
properly and you don't do it consistently, you don't have
the proof that it works.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Let's give them the proof right now. God's give them
the experience right now. It's because one of the things
I don't love about this sort of therapeutic book is
that talking about it. Yeah, it's like people are like,
like you know, and also protectors get up like other
protectors like literally like you're gonna have to bleep me,
but they're like this. I don't want to go there.

(39:05):
And so that's why it took me years in therapy
and I wish it'd had this book because I think
it would have been a more gentle access to it.
So I don't let's stop talking about I'll give it
to them, okay, okay, and you can do it for yourself.
I think everyone listening, maybe you close your eyes while
we do this if you want to, and for your
own sake, Jay, just think of a protector that you
might be aware of. And you don't have to say

(39:27):
out loud what you're working with unless you want to later. Okay,
and everybody listening check in right now with At this point,
maybe you're aware of a part of yourself that is
a little activated at times, or maybe very activated at times,
the parts that are controlling or addicted, or maybe the
part that runs through a refrigerator or checks out with YouTube,

(39:49):
or the aspects of yourself that you want to check
in with, and choose one right now, and once you're
aware of that part, if you're not driving, you can
generally close your eyes and focus your attention inward and
choose to check in with the part. And now noticing

(40:10):
inside with a little curiosity, where does that part of
you live in your body? Where do you feel it inside?
And does it have a shape or a color or
is there any words or thoughts or memories attached to it?

(40:36):
And give it a breath, take a deep breath in
like Jaj just did. Breathe in with it, and just
be present with it and let it know that it's
safe to let you know more to any memories or
feelings or sensations, and don't judge anything that comes forward.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Just let it come through.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
And now that you have a little bit of access
and can to this part, you can ask it one
last time, is there anything else that you want me
to know. And now with that access to the part,
I want you to check in a little bit more
closely and offer it a little bit of compassionate connection,

(41:20):
asking the part, what do you need? Just listen, don't
overthink it, don't judge it.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Just listen.

Speaker 1 (41:37):
And now take a deep breath in and maybe place
your hand on your heart and your other hand on
your belly and just breathing in and just let that
part know that you've listened, that you're here, and take
another deep breath in, and well, just check in and

(42:01):
notice how you feel. Do you feel even the slightest
bit more calm? Do you feel a little bit of
compassion towards that part? Are you curious? Would you like
to know a little bit more at some point? Are
you willing to get to know more? Do you feel connected?

(42:28):
Do you have more clarity about it? Any creative energy
buzzing through? You feel a little buzziness? Just notice those
ce qualities, courage, need confidence. Just take one last deep

(42:49):
breath in, just let it go, and then whenever you're ready,
you can open your eyes. See how you feel. I

(43:22):
watched you go there.

Speaker 2 (43:23):
It was beautiful, It was great, It was what I
really liked about it. The part that really helped me
was being able to approach something head on, which we
don't do, yeah, and then to actually sit with it

(43:45):
with compassion in a good way. So my normal reaction
to it would be, God, why do I do this?
Why am I doing that? God, it's so annoying. Oh,
I know this came from something in my past or
that's the kind of energy that it often has. And
to not have that energy for that protector was new,

(44:08):
because the energy that I have for the protector is
most likely negative or condescending or some sort of kind
of derogatory kind of feeling, whereas this was it was
really pleasant to see in Oh, like, you're not all
that bad. You've been needed, you've performed a purpose, you've

(44:29):
been useful, and and it's not perfect, but I'm grateful,
Like yeah, yeah, and that that was quite new. I've
never done that before.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
There's a lot of clarity there. That's a lot of
self that clarity. So if you're walking for the listener
who's walking out of this or experiencing this just for
the first time, and they have they're like, Oh, I
learned something new. That's that self did you feel a
little bit more calm self. You felt some compassion towards himself.
So anyone that's listening, even the slightest, like I said,

(45:00):
the molecule of calmness or compassion or connection, you've done
it perfectly. Because this is perfect. And if you're like
I actually feel worse, that's fine too, because you tried right,
You did that, you went through the journey that it
doesn't This is just the first baby step in the experience.
Like I shared earlier, is about getting into relationship with

(45:25):
the part, not pushing it away, shutting it down, blaming
and shaming. It's getting into relationship with And here's the
cool part. The more you do this, the more you
can actually speak for your parts rather than as your parts.

Speaker 2 (45:39):
Yes, wow, that's really powerful. Say that again because that's
really good.

Speaker 1 (45:43):
The more you practice this, the easier it is for
you to speak for your parts rather than as your parts.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I mean, that's it, right.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
I'll give you an example. Yesterday. You know, I have
a part that's she's doing okay, she's called knives out.
She's been really at bay and the person that she
likes to bring the knives out to with my husband
for Zack. So she loves to bring those knives out.
But we've been so good, you know, like my husband
and I do IFS therapy and for couple therapies, so

(46:11):
like we are, we're in a great We're a rocket.
I mean, it's amazing that marriages can get that much
better for a time and we have a language around it.
And I said to him something happened where he said
something that was really triggering to me. It was like
something that we're like I did something with my kid
that he didn't like, and he was kind of shaming me,
but not on purpose, but I felt shamed because when

(46:33):
does knives out come out? Jay? When I feel shame? Right, Like,
I don't want to feel that shame. So instead of
feeling that shame, I'm going to literally bring the knives out,
go and become completely overtaken. You'll if anyone that read
my books on me, they'd be like terrified and cry
and run in the corner. And knives out comes out
and she's like cursing, and she's like go after yourself,

(46:54):
you know, and like outraged. And later that night Zach
was just like I don't know what to do with
that part, Like what the hell was that? Why did
you We've been so good? Why did you have to
act out like that? And I said, I was triggered
in the moment, and I was taken over by the part,
and I want to speak for the part. There's that

(47:16):
part again that when she feels shame, she goes into
a nut, she checks out. I become blended with the part.
You literally could take on like a different physical form.
Your face can change, your voice can change. And I
just said, I'm really sorry for how I acted, and
I want to take ownership that that part gets really
and I'm not saying, oh, it's just a part, so

(47:37):
get over it. I'm saying, that's that part that I'm
still working with. I'm going to speak for the part.
The part got really activated. She felt shame. When she
feels shame, she can't she goes crazy. And so I'm
going to keep working with her. And I'm sorry that
she acted out, but I'm speaking for her that rather
than as her, as her would have been like still
in that rage, I'm protecting no matter what, fighting for

(48:01):
the part. And this is really cool in work environments,
So if you've got coworkers that you work with or
a boss that pisces you off, you cause starts speaking
for the part. You can go to the boss and
just say hey, listen, depending on the environment, but you
could in your own way say hey listen. I just
want to let you know that when I get really flustered,
when I don't know the answers, I just wanted to
let you know that that a part of me gets

(48:22):
really activated when I don't know all the answers. So
if you see me acting weird in those but I
just want to let you know, because I'm not trying
to bullshit you, but I actually just get really flustered.
And you just imagine living like that or starting a
relationship with somebody and you have this language and you're like, listen,
A part of me is like a very anxious attishment style.
And I just want you to know that, Like, like
I might act a little nuts at times because this

(48:44):
is a part of me that gets activated. If I
was dating a guy early in a relationship and he
said that's me, I'd be like, bro, let's take this further.
And if they can't, then that's not your partner, right.
But speaking for these parts just makes you so much cooler.

Speaker 2 (48:58):
It's like that animation inside out.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, inside out is based on i FS.

Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, right, right right? That makes sense.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
And that's why I love it for kids, because then
I'll talk to my kid about that film and I'll
be like, I'm a really anxious guy, and you know,
they can speak for these parts of yourself.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Talk to me about how you've been using ifs in
those two ways. So you talked about with your husband,
Zach and with your son. Let's talk about i FS
in that context of being in a relationship and a
romantic relationship and then having a relationship with your child.
Let's start with romantic relationship. If someone's starting to do

(49:54):
this work and they want to encourage their partner to
be included in it, how do you do that? How
do you go about that conversation in a way I
feel like so many people today are like, I don't
want to date someone who hasn't done therapy. I don't
want to date someone who hasn't healed. How do you
actually have that conversation in a healthy way.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
I'm going to answer that with a story. Okay, So,
because I get this question all the time. When I
first started this yoga practice decade almost a decade ago,
and I was so deeply into it and I was
like doing the sad nad. I was wearing the turbine
and you remember, and I was like in the whites
and I was like every day all day going to
the teacher training. I'd come home and I'd be like, Zach,

(50:34):
you have to do this, like you know, five hour
breath work practice through your hands in the air with me.
And he was just like go after yourself, like, no,
I'm not doing that. And I kept being like, well,
why isn't he doing it? And I went to my
teacher and I said, listen, my husband isn't doing the
practice with me. He doesn't want to do it. And
she looked at me and she said, the second that
you walk in the door, when you get home, she said,
take off the turbin and shut up. And that was it.

(50:58):
That's my answer for everybody. Take off your metaphorical turbine
and shut up. Because if your partner's not ready for it,
they're not ready for it. You do the work. You
are the one you've been waiting for. You get to work,
you start tending to the parts of yourself inside, and
when you change, everybody else around you has the opportunity
to rise up with you. And that's in relationships. If
you start to rise and they don't rise with you,

(51:20):
then that's your sign. Okay, it's time to move on.
But when you rise, you give somebody the opportunity to
elevate with you, alongside you. But you got to do
the work you can't. Yeah, you could say I'm tracting
a partner that wants to do the work, but their
work might be different than your work. And so I've
been on my own path. Zach's been on his own path.
We find intersection, but he's not sitting and going to

(51:41):
ashram or he's not going to go and deep do
a two hour meditation. But he will do self help
with me. He'll check in with me. But this is
a journey. You got to do the work for yourself.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, what about when your parts, even when you learn
to speak for your parts and not as your parts,
when your parts have pushed people too far away? So,
for example, with your knives out, Zach is an understanding
person who's doing the work with you. He's also trying
to figure this out. I'm sure he has his version

(52:13):
of whatever it is, what do you do when your
parts have acted out and you've realized too late that
they've actually pushed people quite far away. Is that repairable?

Speaker 1 (52:22):
The word is repair I think that that depends on
the relationship we as an addict. I know very well
what it means to make an amends. A lot of
times we as addicts can have those addicts are very
extreme parts. They're called firefighter parts that are literally at
wits end. I have to do whatever it takes to

(52:42):
put out the fire and the flames of this impermissible feeling.
And so that's why addicts deserve a tremendous amount of compassion,
because oftentimes we're traumatized people who do not have the
resources in that moment to actually heal and help ourselves.
So in the scenario of an addict, let's just say
they may have pushed a lot of people away. They
might have created a lot of wreckage. And so it's

(53:03):
first in the inner work of the self forgiveness. There's
a chapter in the book called self forgiveness. In the
inner work of getting in relationship with those parts and
recognizing that that was a part that was working really
hard and forgiving yourself first, because you won't really be
able to even be in an energy that could be

(53:25):
resonant with someone to receive their forgiveness if you don't
forgive yourself first, because then you're needing them to make
it right for you. You have to make it right for you.
And when you do that, that's when your amends will
really land. So I can look at Zach now and say,
I know that this part needs me, and I'm working

(53:49):
really hard with her, and so I'm going to forgive
her and I'm gonna ask for your forgiveness as well.
And so I think that's the answer, Jay, is that
if you've pushed, if your parts have created a lot
of wreckage in your life, then you have to really,
no one has to. My suggestion is to go deep
into your own inner healing and forgiveness of yourself and

(54:11):
forgiveness of the parts and acceptance of the parts, and
then you'll be shown Self will guide you. You'll be
self led. Self is spirit, so self is God. Self
is the energy of love inside of you will show you. Okay,
when you feel that you have access to that self
forgiveness inside, you're going to know that it's time to
go and make amends. And maybe you get the forgiveness

(54:32):
or maybe you don't but you don't need it, but
you're there to ask to really to make amends. I
think that all relationships, if there are two parties that
are interested in this, this is an extraordinary practice for
a couple, extraordinary, it's an extraordinary practice for a parent.
Doctor Becky Kennedy's a good friend and she's also very

(54:53):
good friends with Dick Schwartz, and she practices a lot
of ifs in the work as well, and it comes
through in her work a lot because think it's curiosity.
You have a DFK deeply feeling kid like I do,
and the child needs your self energy and the case
of my child. So to answer the second question, how
do we do this with their kids? Some kids might

(55:15):
like the four steps. Some kids might like, you know,
they're really activated, and you're like, okay, let's check in,
you know, let me check in, and you actually could
go through the steps of them. Let's check in with
that part at where do you feel at your body?

Speaker 2 (55:25):
Baby?

Speaker 1 (55:25):
And just checking in okay, oh, and then what do
you need and how do you feel now that mommy's
giving you a little bit of breath and remembering that
our children are always co regulating with they're regulating with
our energy, so we're not coregulating. They're regulating with us
and so our self energy. The more we do this,
the better a parent we will be, because what does
a child need a self led leader in the home.

(55:47):
The child doesn't need a lot of child's parts parenting them.
They need the adult resourced, undamaged self as often as
possible as the parent, because that's what's safe and so
that self but gets more self. In the case of
my child, if I start trying to go through the
forests with him, he's like, are you kidding me? He

(56:08):
is so allergic to you know, this kind of conversations.
You're like, how you feeling? He's like, nah, mammy, So
I have to do a little backwards ways, you know,
I'll just be very casual, like, yo, bro, how are
you feeling? Like what's going on? Like what happened today?
Just really cash, really cash. So you have to know
your kid. Yeah, the kid is like, don't try that
on me, mommy.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Yeah, that's and that's that's the beauty of it, though,
is that it gives you a language to speak to
the other people in your life as well.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
Yes, So if you have friends or other parties involved.
It gives you a collective language. So it's really funny
whenever I'm around my friends in the IFS community. I
did a call yesterday with Dick Schwartz and his wife
and we were talking about AI stuff and I was
giving them some guidance and they were getting activated by
it because it's new, and it's like, what do you mean,
are you like a clone? Like what are you talking about?

(57:00):
And I looked at them and I was like, so, guys,
you know, I know I have a really aggressive part
that likes to get really excited about things. So just
warning you as we enter this car. And so we
all speak for our parts in these relationships. And it
really is quite funny when you're around as IFS people
because we're all just like, my part feels this, but
it's beautiful. And imagine the whole world just walking around
being like, hey, we just speak for a part of
myself before I act like an asshole.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 1 (57:24):
It's a totally different way to live.

Speaker 2 (57:26):
It's it's people use it as an excuse.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Definitely. You don't want to start being like in that
sort of wounded place of it's kind of like offense
but that happens in all practice, of course, right, You're
gonna be like, well, I just needed my four hour
meditation or I didn't do enough mantras this morning or whatever,
you know. But in this instance, I think that we
this is about taking ownership of our parts, but not
in a way where we're judging them, but where we're

(57:52):
befriending them and speaking for them and taking care of them.

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Is there is there ever a time we've talked to
a lot about self soothing, self regulating, self help overaule?
Is there ever a time where being hard on yourself
is actually useful and effective?

Speaker 1 (58:09):
You ask the best questions? Are so good at this,
you know, I think that there's so this is actually
a beautiful question. There are protectors that also have really
valuable They all have valuable roles. Right, So let's think
about it from the standpoint of my Workaholic really create

(58:29):
a lot of drama and chaos in my life and
gastro issues and just constant hyper vigilance. But she also
wrote ten books in fourteen years, right, and she's helped
served a lot of souls. So we didn't want to
shut her down or blame her or shame her she
was doing the best she could, and she also did
a lot of good along the way, and we can
be in difficult times and still be doing great things

(58:50):
in the world. So I think that a part that
is sort of beating us up, or not even beating
us up, maybe like an encouraging part that's like, you know,
push harder, go more. It's it's it's a self like part.
It's not it's not self, but it has more self
aspects than protect your aspects. And the real question isn't

(59:13):
is that bad or good? It's really is is it extreme?
Because if it's extreme, that's when you really need to
start to tend to it. Because remember, we could be
very praised for our perfectionism, or very praised for our
work ethic, or very praised for how hard we hit
the gym or how much we practice that tennis, and

(59:34):
we could be really praised for that, and it looks
like a great quality, and in many ways it is.
But when it's extreme, it's oftentimes a very extreme protector.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
Yeah, and that's the that's and that's why you've got
to approach it in the same way. You can't judge
that part of you that is hard on you.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
No check one with it. Yeah, and the thing that's happened.
Here's the miracle. When you start to check in with
these parts and you start to befriend them, and you
start to self soothe, and you start to create this
relationship inside. It's not that the parts have to go away, Jay,
It's that the parts now become the best versions of themselves.

(01:00:12):
They've returned to their natural roles. So my workaholic part, Look,
I've got you today and then I'm going off to
the next thing. I got three more podcasts tomorrow. I'm
still showing up, but I'm doing it in a less
extreme way. You know this, You've known me for almost
a decade. My energy is different. I'm not doing I mean,

(01:00:32):
I'm not doing less. I'm just more intentional and I'm
more aligned, and I'm more resourced, and I'm having more
fun and I'm more child like. I can't tell you
how many friends like you and Louis and like brothers
of mine have been like, yeahy, you're like so youthful
and child like. You guys said that to me when
we had dinner. And that's just the unburdening because it's
gonna make me cry. It's like you return to this

(01:00:52):
child like presence inside that was always there. Yeah, it
just got taken from you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Yeah. I mean when we were at Lewis's and I
didn't actually tell you this. I told you at dinner,
which I think we had like a year ago, but
when we were at Lewis's wedding earlier this, yeah, I
was just I was thinking about it a lot, and
I was like, Wow, Gabby's just so at peace, Like
you just have this ease about you these days. That
not that you weren't and you were like that when
I first met you. You were like you were buzzy,
and you were like kind of like, you know, you
had all this good energy you always have. I've never

(01:01:19):
felt anything different, but I could feel that like ease
and grace and peace from you. Yeah, And that's a
really beautiful thing when you experience it in someone. Because
I think we're used to being around high performing people
who have big goals and targets and things like that,
and that's not a fun energy to be around. It's
kind of it's it's not like it's not attractive that

(01:01:40):
and we're all ambitious and stuff, so there's nothing wrong
with that. But if that someone's overarching energy. It's not
the same as when you're around someone who's kind of
just at ease and peace, even though they are driven
and ambitious. Talk to me about that kind of paradox,
because I think we think that if someone's at peace,
they're slow, yeah, and if someone's ambitious, they're fast. Talk

(01:02:02):
to me about slow fast yeah, peaceful, ambitious yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:07):
Well, oftentimes high performing entrepreneurs do have a lot of
shadow parts, but oftentimes that is the reason for so
much of their successes, and it's when those folks begin
to alchemize and start to recognize and do the work.
However that work shows up in their life that they're

(01:02:29):
real successes, not external, but that they're actually able to
achieve what they're truly capable of. And so achievement is
not a sign of self energy at all. Achievement is
oftentimes the sign of a lot of protectors working their
ass off to get something going to protect you. What
happens when we are in that self energy, when we're

(01:02:50):
in self is that it's not that if we are
a high performer. Just by nature, certain people just have
different energies, right, We're born with different frequencies if that's
in your nature and that's a part of you. It's
not that that goes away, it's just that you can
do it in a more sustainable way. You have more boundaries,
you have more ability to say yes, say no. You

(01:03:11):
are clearer, so you're making better decisions. You're clearer so
you're not surrounding yourself with the wrong folks, so you're
you can actually move even faster and create even more
because you're not burdened. So it's it's not faster or slow,
it's what is the energy that's moving through you. When

(01:03:33):
you have self energy, you could move for real fast,
but it's so intentional that it has so much more
power and you actually can do a lot less and
attract a lot more.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Let's talk about bound because I mean, I feel like
boundaries is at the heart of every human issue today
in the sense of when we think about interpersonal dynamics,
whether people having issues with their friends, their family members,
it's all boundaries based. And many of us are willing
to break our boundaries because we care more about people pleasing,

(01:04:21):
we care more about living up to everyone's expectations, we
care more about everything else, and we think we have
a boundary. We say we have a boundary, but we
don't really keep up to it. So I'll give an example.
I was talking to a friend the other day and
she said she wanted to she only wanted to hang
out if all of the friends were invited, and another

(01:04:47):
one of her friends said, no, I only want to
hang out with you, and she was like, well, if
we hang out, then everyone's going to find out we
hang out, and then they're going to be upset that
we hung out. So I think we should invite everyone.
And the other friend said, no, I just want to
hang out with you and a couple of other friends,
but I don't want to invite everyone. So you had
these two boundaries that were almost at odds with each other.
One boundary was we should always invite everyone because it

(01:05:09):
makes everyone feel included, which almost was people pleasing, not
even a boundary. And the other boundary was, no, I
think it should just be a small group of us.
And the person who wanted to invite everyone ultimately gave
in and said, no, okay, fine, we'll just have a
small group of us. Yeah. Now this is a very
small example, but to me, it's at the heart of
all the problems that we have. It's like people being

(01:05:30):
upset that people didn't invite them to their wedding, People
being upset that they invited them but didn't give them
an important role. People being upset that their family didn't
prioritize their birthday. People being upset that they're always the
ones organizing vacations and no one else does. Like, these
are the real challenges in life that we're all going
through every day. What do we do? How do we

(01:05:52):
set boundaries that we actually stick to and that we're
okay with letting people down?

Speaker 1 (01:05:58):
It seems it sounds like the case of your friends,
the one that was wanting to invite everybody to big
people please are part and it might sound like the
other one probably had a pretty clear bound like yeah,
good boundaries good or bout it? I mean, listen, boundaries
are only good if they're led byself, because you could
also be really like, I've got all these boundaries. But
that's a protector too, right, So, whether it's boundaries, whether

(01:06:19):
it's it's control, whether it's anxiety, whatever the protector is,
if those parts of you are happening in extreme ways
that are misaligned with that calm, clear, curious compassionate, confident,
courageous energy. Then it's a protector. Then it's a protector.

(01:06:42):
It's across the board when it comes to boundaries, I
find that the more we do whatever type of personal
development or spiritual practice that we have, and the more
we start to access self inside, the more precious we
realize our energy is, the more connected we feel inside,
so we begin to know I can't do that anymore.

(01:07:06):
The more access to self that I have acquired, the
easier it has been for me to be very boundaried
with the people who work for me and literally speak
the thing that in the wrong tone could be very upsetting,
but with the self energy or fine, so saying Nope,
I won't do that anymore, that's not my thing, or
look at somebody in the eye and say, actually, that's

(01:07:27):
your job. I want you to do that. That's no
longer my job. I had a part for many years
Jay that was if they don't do it, if I
don't do it, nobody else will. That was a really
big part. If I don't do it, nobody else will.
And that was lingering for up until maybe a year
ago or less. It's really recent that it's been kind
of out of my life, and not completely but.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
Pretty much much how you worked on that one, because
that's a great one.

Speaker 1 (01:07:50):
I just kept working with that part. So that part
was probably one of the parts I worked with most
in my life. And it was really creating a lot
of chaos because and it made me just to be
the one that would take the burden of all of
it and do all the work too. It wouldn't let
people rise up. And three, it would put me in
a position where I wasn't never asking for what I wanted,
and I did not have the clear boundaries around where

(01:08:10):
I started and I ended, and so burn out. And
so I kept working with it and working with it
and checking in with it and noticing it and witnessing
it and bringing it to my IFS therapy and bringing
it to my meditation practice and checking in with it.
I checked in with every single day for at least
a year through my journaling. I literally wrote with it
every single day for a year. During COVID, I was

(01:08:30):
working with it like crazy. So it's been maybe a
decade of working two decades of working with that part,
but really heavily in the last year, and man, I
have come out the other side I'm literally looking at people,
and I'm in a different nervous system. I'll look at somebody,
I'll say, oh no, no, no, that's your job, that's
your job, that's not my job, or and I actually

(01:08:52):
don't come across. I was probably much more of an
asshole before because I was doing it and then mad
that I was doing it, and then taking it out
on them energetically. Right, So now I'm just like, oh, no, no, no,
you know that's your thing, or I'm going to ask
that you do this thing. This is my clear clarity
and boundaries as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as someone
who wants to be a leader in your home with

(01:09:13):
your child, in your classroom, and your business, whatever it
is that you do. This is the most important book
you could read as a leader. And I wish I
actually know. It's easy for me to say that because
it's based on Dick Schwartz's work. Right, So it's this
or any ifs practice work is the most important thing
you could do as a leader. The Dick talks about
self led leaders. We need to be showing up particularly

(01:09:37):
right now. What's happened is everyone out there out there,
It's all just a lot of damaged parts on all
over the place. This country is insanely divisive all throughout
the world. And that's just parts parts chaos, chaos.

Speaker 2 (01:09:55):
Yeah, we're leading through a knives out pot, a exactly
addicted part and an anxious part, whatever it may be.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Think about the activists, they're like fighting, fighting, fighting. Look,
that work is incredible, it's life changing, it's necessary. But
if we're in that constant place of fighting, that's another protector.
So how can you lead and activate from a place
of self? How can you come from that? It doesn't
mean that you don't get angry, it doesn't mean that

(01:10:23):
you don't have rage. You use it, You infuse the
self energy into it. And it's really important right now.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Yeah, it's incredible, Gabby. I can't wait for people to
read this book. Everyone. The book is called self help.
This is your chance to change your life. Go and
grab your copy if you haven't already. I love that
this book actually has a practice within it. It's built
around the practice, built around the therapy. So it's not
a book that you're going to read. It's a book
that you're going to live, and it's a book that

(01:10:52):
you're going to practice. And so I highly recommend, if
you appreciate our conversation today, that you go grab a copy. Gabby.
We end every episode of One Pert Was with a
final five, and these questions have to be answered in
one word to one sentence maximum. Okay, so I'm going
to ask you these final five, Gaby Benstein. These are
your final five. Question Number one, what is the best
advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:11:14):
Befriend the parts of yourself inside?

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Yeah, I love I actually loved that advice. It's it's
so because as humans were so good at using something
fat for when it's useful, and then as soon as
it's not useful, we condemn it. So it's like, oh, yeah,
I hate this job now, and it's like, well, no,
this job paid for the last three years of your family,
your life, everything, even if you didn't love it, don't

(01:11:37):
hate on it. But we kind of use it and
we hate it. And it's like, oh, I love this partner,
and now that things didn't work out, I hate them,
and it's like, well no, no, no, Like you learned
so much. And we don't only do that with jobs
and people, we do that with ourselves. Where hey, there
was this part of me that I hate now, and
it's like, no, that part of you helped you survive
college and kept you alive.

Speaker 1 (01:11:57):
And I want to speak to that before we end you.
Because when I wrote I wrote this book. The year
that I wrote this book, I was a fellow at
a recovery center, and every month I would go and teach,
and there was about one hundred new folks entering the
treatment center each time I'd show up, so they'd BBB one, two, three,
four days SOB and I'd walk in the room and

(01:12:19):
I was teaching this. I was practicing what I was
writing about. And so I'd look at this group of
people who are all literally at witsheman who knows what
kind of destruction they just two days into recovery. And
I'd say to this group, well, listen, let me ask
you how many people in this room have experienced trauma.
They all raise their hand, and then I'd say, and
wouldn't it make sense that you would do whatever it

(01:12:40):
took to put out the flames of that impermissible fear
and experience? And a lot of them would be like, Okay, yeah, yeah,
I get that. And then I'd say, well, wouldn't it
make sense that the addict had a purpose that it's
been working really hard to keep you safe. And I
want to really really let people hear that at the

(01:13:01):
parts of yourself that you're the most ashamed of that
have caused the most chaos in your life, they've been
working really hard to keep you safe.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
Yeah. It is so so real. And if we were
able to get that way, you'd be so much more
positive and healthy about what's possible in your life.

Speaker 1 (01:13:19):
And able to move forward because you could forgive yourself.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Yes, yes, and able to move forward because you take
all of that experience and learning and that energy onto
the next and you'd be willing to let go as well. Yeah,
Like you could easily let go of that part knowing
that it's served its purpose, whereas sometimes we probably stay
too long in parts that are no longer serving.

Speaker 1 (01:13:41):
Us our whole life.

Speaker 2 (01:13:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Second question, what is the worst advice
you've ever heard or received.

Speaker 1 (01:13:50):
Stop doing YouTube and start blogging?

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
Does someone say that to you?

Speaker 1 (01:13:55):
Yeah, like ten years ago, it's the biggest mistake of
my life. I'm rebuilding my YouTube now.

Speaker 2 (01:13:59):
Oh wow, interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:14:01):
Sorry that was like career advice. Yeah, no, it's the
worst advice in my life. It was like, where's Where's
Jay Sheddy? When I needed them? It sounds like the
stupidest thing to answer, but it really might have been
that wasn't Was that the worst advice of my life?
It's I mean, yeah, I think in this moment, it's
the thing that's type of mind.

Speaker 2 (01:14:17):
Yeah, it's it's uh.

Speaker 1 (01:14:20):
I mean I think there's to expect something more profound
than that.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Oh no, no, I love we That's the whole point
of the podcast is to be fully authentic. Yeah no,
I know I'm reacting because I think what's really interesting
is that there's a lot of people who say they're experts,
but really the only people you can trust as experts
are the people that are actually doing it. And I
feel like there's a lot of bad advice I see
all the time, Like there'll be someone on Instagram saying

(01:14:45):
this is what to do on Instagram and someone will
show it to me my friend or something saying oh ja,
and I'm like, check how many follows that person has,
Check what their engagement is like, check how many comments
they get. Yeah, don't trust them. Like it's just someone
saying something and it sounds really convincing, and it sounds
really well put, but they don't have the they don't

(01:15:05):
have the engagement or anything to follow it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:06):
Yeah exactly. And the thing I think that that was
a bad choice for me because it was bad advice
that I took because for me, I'm I'm an orator,
I'm a rock and tour. I needed to be storytelling.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:15:20):
On I guess YouTube really being the greatest vote. I'm
looking at your YouTube, plaqu right there. So so here
I am, I'm rebuilding my YouTube now.

Speaker 2 (01:15:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15:29):
And then the other thing is is you know, forgive
the advice that you took that was wrong and start again.
And here I am, I'm like literally like I might
as well be like a bro in Bushwick and like
a studio apartment like hacking, you know, making my YouTube
channel with all the packages. But I'm having fun with
it and that you know that creative force it self.

Speaker 2 (01:15:45):
Yeah, yeah for sure. Yeah, how do we do that?
Like that's let's take that really practical thing, like often
we got bad advice, we took a wrong turn, a
relationship took us off track. How do you use this
to get over that? Because that is like one of
those things that could just be a thorn forever that
you're just like God, that person I didn't date them

(01:16:08):
for three years. If I didn't take that advice, I
wouldn't have wasted those six years of my life blogging
whatever it is. How do we apply that to this?

Speaker 1 (01:16:15):
Oh my God, I think I'm a master. I should
write a book about this. I am a master at
self forgiveness. And I think that I have been because
it's like a flip that I just switched for myself,
particularly in my sobriety, where I had to just just choose.
I think that that's a choice you make to carry

(01:16:35):
the burdens of your past or to choose to step
into what could be your opportunity in the moment. So
someone right now could have a quantum shift right here,
right now. We could give them a quantum shift right here,
right now if they choose to start to say, I
forgive myself. I forgive myself, even if you just fake
it till you make it. I forgive myself. Okay. And

(01:16:56):
I like to kind of speak to myself like this, Jay,
I'll do something that's kind of wobbly, maybe not the
greatest thing I say. I'll talk like this, I'll go Okay, Okay,
we did that again. Okay, we did that again? Who
do I how do I need to clean it up?
What do I need to who do I make amends to?
Who do I check? What part do I check in with?
And then, very quickly, how do I choose again?

Speaker 2 (01:17:18):
Yeah? How do I choose again? That question shifts it
completely because it was a choice. You had the power. Yeah,
you made a choice, and yeah, I agree. I mean,
I've pivoted so many times in my career and my
life and so many things, and it's it's only been
because I've followed self. Yes, And that's where I know

(01:17:39):
when I'm not living my best life is when I'm
not following self totally. And I think the challenge is
that self can get very quiet for people. And you
talk a lot about trusting yourself ultimately, and it's you
can't trust yourself when you can't hear yourself, and you
can't hear yourself because you haven't listened to yourself for
so long. And this book is helping you get back

(01:18:01):
to that so that you're not making decisions based on
rationale or logic or pros and cons lists, but you're
actually having clarity from within, which is such a gift, and.

Speaker 1 (01:18:14):
If you think about that clarity from within. Okay, So
if you're struggling to change a relationship, this will guide
you to that clarity. If you are struggling to forgive
a past behavior that's been holding you back, this will
help you release that behavior and start to connect to
that clarity. So that essence of accessing the energy that

(01:18:35):
we need. All anyone listening wants to create in this lifetime.
They have visions, they have dreams, they have desires. It's
not about how often you say it. It's not about
how many vision boards you create. It's not about how
many affirmations you say. It's about how you relate to
yourself inside, because you're always attracting who you are, you

(01:18:59):
manifest tract you are.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
Question number three, what are you feeling really clear about
right now?

Speaker 1 (01:19:08):
Hmm? Very very clear about YouTube. I'm really clear about
where I want to put my energy, where I want
to focus my energy.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
What a great place to be. Question number four, what's
something you used to value that you no longer value?

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
External validation? I mean I value it, like you said earlier,
it's nice, but it was something that was very important
for me and I needed it, and I don't feel
it that way anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Switched. Yeah. Fifth and final question, we asked this every
guest who's ever been on the show. If you could
create one law that everyone in the world had to follow,
what would it be to get to.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
Know your parts? Yeah, he heal on the inside. I
actually do really believe that. I believe that if everyone
was doing this type of work, that we would be
living in a very different place.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Yeah, because we wouldn't Yeah, because we wouldn't be throwing
our wounds over the place.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
We'd be help self help. We'd be helping ourselves. We'd
be living accessing more self And what really the only
way to change the frequency, or change the trajectory that
we're on is to actually, on an individual level, start
to heal. And in that inner healing, we start to

(01:20:22):
lead in our own corners with that self led energy.
And it's community right now. I mean, this is what
I've been channeling in my meditations. It's it's getting inside,
doing the inner work, and then bringing that self led
energy into your local community and that will have a
ripple effect.

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
Everyone in the book, it's called self help. This is
your chance to change your life. Gabby Bernstein. Go and
follow her on YouTube, on Instagram and TikTok. Subscribe to
all of Gabby's channels so that you don't miss out.
And please please go and grab a copy of the
book to do the work yourself, to save yourself so
mu's time, energy, money in the long term for your

(01:20:59):
own good, the good of your family, your partner, whoever
else may be in your life, your friends, your community.
Thank you again Gabby for coming on the show. It's
great to have you back and have this conversation. And
thank you. I'm so grateful for your work. I love you,
Thank you, I love you too. Thanks Gavy. If this
is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're
trying to build more, I need you to listen to

(01:21:20):
this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into
your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that
lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving what
you do. If you're trying to find your passion and
your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value,
Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all
of the value. That's the success comes when you say
I like this enough for other people to see it.

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