What was your biggest dream as a child?
Growing up, did you have the best environment to pursue these dreams? Or did you need to set them aside for a different purpose in life?
Today, Jay sits down with the iconic voice behind Elsa from the film Frozen, Idina Menzel. Idina's other well-known character is Elphaba in the original Broadway production of the musical "Wicked." She co-authored the children's book, Loud Mouse.
One of the big takeaways here is how our dreams and ambitions are like living entities, always changing and growing, just like we are. As we navigate life's various chapters, our goals shift in response to what matters most to us. It's a reminder that it's perfectly okay for our dreams to evolve and expand as we do.
Idina has a way of nudging us to appreciate diverse viewpoints and experiences. The podcast encourages us to embrace this and to seek understanding and connection with others. There's a powerful message about the strength in being open, vulnerable, and compassionate in a world that can sometimes be a bit harsh.
In this interview, you’ll learn:
How our dreams evolve throughout the years
How to navigate challenges that come our way
How to be less self-absorbed in certain situations
Why understanding someone has limitations
How to allow your authentic voice to be heard
Ultimately, this conversation is like a friendly nudge to live life on our terms, free from the weight of other people's judgments. It's an invitation to explore our ever-changing perspectives, to find strength in resilience, and to chase our passions with fervor.
With Love and Gratitude,
Jay Shetty
What We Discuss:
00:00 Intro
02:31 What keeps you going these days?
06:00 When you start seeing things differently through a different lens
08:43 The story of a young girl learning her way with music through experience
12:23 How ambition and dreams can evolve through the years
16:07 The long developmental process of musical shows
19:46 The mission was to show up and never miss a show
23:39 How do you find perspective and become less self-absorbed?
26:14 How do you stay present in the moment?
31:09 How to communicate through differences with parents and children
35:55 Idina wrote a children’s book that allows children to be more themselves!
40:39 How do you allow your authentic voice to be heard?
41:54 What it is like to revisit a character you played years later
44:27 Why it is challenging to believe we can walk in someone else’s shoes
46:37 Stop worrying about what other people think and live your own life
Episode Resources:
Idina Menzel | Website
Idina Menzel | Instagram
Idina Menzel | YouTube
Idina Menzel | Facebook
Idina Menzel | TikTok
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
My next guest is Adina Menzel. She has a new
album called Drama Queen and a children's book called Proud
Mouse out September twelfth. Make sure to watch and read.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
My son is Mixed. I don't want my whiteness to
be something that I know people say you're the mom.
He's going to love you, but there's going to be
things that I can't understand for him because I'm not
in his skin. And as he's getting older, he's becoming
more and more aware of the society that he lives
in and the violence, the racism, and I just want
(00:31):
to be someone he can come to, you know. The
best selling author in the post.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
The number one health and wellness.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so
grateful for our community here at the number one health
podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one
of you that come back every week to listen, learn
and grow. And I know that you're always looking for
new stories, new ideas, new things to bring into your
life so that you can feel better, feel happy. I
feel healthier and feel healed. And today I'm talking to
(01:02):
a guest who has a really unique experience of life.
And that's what I love. I love learning about people
who've come from different backgrounds, different walks of life, taken
different parts. And I'm speaking to all of you about
Idina Menzel, a powerhouse multi hyphenet, a singer, an actress
in film and TV, a songwriter, a Broadway star, and
(01:23):
a philanthropist. And I mean her accolades are absolutely unbelievable.
Adina rose to fame for her role as Maureen in
the popular Broadway musical Rent, and their career took off
when she won a Tony Award for her role as Alphabet,
the Wicked Witch of the West in the musical Wicked.
If you haven't seen it, it's phenomenal. I can't believe
you haven't seen it yet. Adina's voice can be heard
(01:45):
as Elsa in Disney's Oscar winning Frozen, the second highest
grossing animated film of all time, with more than one
point two billion dollars in worldwide box office revenue, and
right now she's out talking about her children's book Loud Mouse,
which we'll be hearing about today as well. Please welcome
to the show, Dinna Manzelle, and thank you for.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Doing this, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, it's so grateful to meet you and so happy
to get to spend this time with you. I know
you've had a long day. We're just talking about. You've
been up since four am.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, and I'm on the LA time. So that's what
that was weird because I couldn't get to bed, yeah,
with my jet lag, so I'm running on empty. But
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'm just coming as well three days ago, and so
I know that feels like But I guess the question
is that you've been up since four am, You've been
doing so much work today. What drives you? What motivates you?
What what keeps you going?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
My son, my thirteen year old son Walker, I think
that's the main driving force. I mean, obviously creativity and
my you know, artistic soul, my desire to keep creating
and finding new ways to express myself. But if I'm
(02:58):
being completely honest, it's you know, it's how can I
be a better mom? How what am I doing today
to help my son? You know? My relationship with my husband.
I think it's because I'm I've turned fifty now, and
the ambition starts to weigh a little bit when you
(03:22):
when you have a little success too, you know, like
start to feel okay, like I can afford to pay
for his schooling, and I can pay my mortgage, and
I'm doing wonderful things and working with terrific people, and
so I can relax a little bit. When I was younger,
I was just pounding the pavement so hard, you know,
(03:44):
and really I believed in myself, but I was just
really working hard and playing gigs everywhere and trying to
get noticed. And so at this age it starts to
you know, you go, Okay, everything's everything's going to be okay,
you know, and so you want to give a lot
of energy to your relations, to your marriage, to your child.
(04:07):
And that's why this children's book is. I guess this
sort of an organic step in the evolution of things,
you know, because people always ask me to do one,
you know, because I guess my trajectory of characters and
this sort of alpha us and Elsa's and these amazing
(04:29):
young women that have all this incredible power and our
role models for kids, and it's all about, you know,
embracing that power and harnessing it and not being afraid
to send it out into the world. You know, there's
for some reason. There's the universe has thrown these things
(04:51):
my way. I don't know if it's the chicken or
the egg. Is it me, you know, choosing these somehow,
even though they were jobs I needed and I had
to do for them. So I think that there's in
the tradition of those characters. I felt that I wanted
to write a children's book that was about really me
(05:13):
having those very similar experiences when I was little, and
really believing in myself at a young age, really recognizing
that I had something special to offer, but also being
hesitant to share it out of fear of being alienated,
being disliked, feeling like I was calling too much attention
(05:35):
to myself. How much space can we take up in
the world, what's allowed? You know, especially as women, I
think we're always sort of second guessing ourselves. So that's
what the book's about. But that's what I do with
as a grown up too. Every day. I'm still second
guessing when I walk in a room, how much space
I can take up, how big my voice is literally
(05:58):
and metaphorically.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Well, and how do you think your view has changed
of what you view as important from that time when
you were like grinding and hustling and busy, working hard
to now having a bit more I guess structure and
peace and a bit of arrival feeling, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
The desperation isn't there, you know, it doesn't mean that
I'm not still dreaming and there's not things that I
There are still things I want. There's a lot of
things that I find still elusive to me. We could
talk about that. But so I still have ambition, but
the fear of literally not being able to pay my
(06:41):
rent or not making good on my commitment to myself
as a young girl, of working hard to have my
dream come true. My dreams have come true. I perform
on a stage, I perform in all these incredible venues
for thousands of people and Disney Princess Queen for God's sakes,
(07:03):
you know. So, But you know, the more you get,
the more you want, and you see things differently through
different a different lens when you become a mom.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, it was two things you hit there which I
read about you when I I was looking for this interview.
You said, do you have many dreams? But then one
of the dreams I've heard you've had is your teeth
falling out right. I know that's a different time, different
type of dreams. That's not the kind of dream that Yeah, yeah,
that's my night. You Have you ever looked into all
(07:34):
the meetings behind?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, it's all about anxiety.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Have you ever found a meaning that sits well with you,
that gives you some comfort in life?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No, not that dream. It's always such anxiety. And that's
what I've read about it. And I also usually the
teeth come out and you can hear the sound of
them slinking against Yeah, I have that one. And I
have one that I never actually graduated college and I'm
too credit short. I have it so much that I
still wake up with a feeling of like, why do
I feel unseubtled? Oh you think you didn't. Let's a wait, No,
(08:05):
I was there, I got my diploma.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, I get the dream of like I have another
exam again. I think that's the one that sets me up.
I'm like, no, I don't want to do another exam. God,
enough exams in my life. But no, that that that's interesting.
And yeah, that lack of control, I think that's what
I've seen it as well, Like when you're losing your
teeth in a dream, it's like feeling like the anxiety
and losing control.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And then then I have cracked a tooth and a
bagel close like my nightmares coming true, you know whatever, yeah,
oh my gosh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeahs and hearing the teeth that sounds sounds make me
very like skirmish, I feel like sounds tough. And then
also with working hard, I mean before this, you used
to well, not before this, a long time ago, you
used to perform at the mitzpahs and weddings. Yeah, which
which one did you prefer? Was there a better one?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well? I went through different phases. When I was fifteen
years old, my parents parents divorced, and I wanted to
get a job to kind of help out that, you know,
dad was supporting two households. And my mom started dating
this guy who was really sweet and saw talent in me.
And he knew some guy that had a wedding band
(09:16):
out in Long Island, and he said, you should auditionize.
I don't know en f songs, you know. And we
lied about my age because we didn't want them to
worry that I was still kid, so we said I
was eighteen, like that's so old. And I started learning
a bunch of songs. I put on kind of a
slutty dress and I went in and I sang what
(09:37):
I sing back, I'm dating myself, but I sang Evergreen
like a Barber Streisen sung, and I sang We're walking
on sunshine. Oh, I remember I saying a flash dance song. Anyway,
and I got the job and I started working all
the time, weddings, permits, visit, it didn't matter. They all
can be bad because nobody's listening. They can be really wonderful,
(10:00):
especially for a young girl becoming trying to figure out
my identity as a vocalist, having to learn so many
kinds of genres of music, you know, like motown, pop, rock, jazz.
So I really that was kind of my education of music.
(10:20):
And I'm working. There's a lot of incredible musicians that
do it as a side gig just to make extra money.
So the good thing about people not listening is you
can try a lot of it. And one of my
favorite times would be when they say, like ladies and gentlemen,
please take your seat, your salad is being served, and
then the band would take a break except for me
(10:41):
and like the keyboard player, and then we'd sing, you know,
a Billie Holiday Tune or Eli Fitzgerald. And at a
young age, I learned what melody is and I would
listen to them on the car ride to the gig,
and then I'd learned what I was contributing to it,
how to improvise, and where were my instincts, my impulses
(11:06):
as a singer. And so I actually still identify with
I still see myself as that girl, the chick gig singer,
a wedding singer. And it's been so much longer that
I've not been that than I was, but I still
just feel like that's who I am when I'm on stage.
I could be at Madison Square Garden. I'm still with
(11:27):
my band. I want a jam. I'm okay with spontaneity.
You walk on. I was fifteen years old, and they
call it tune. You have to call it in the
right key. You have to know the lyrics. If you
don't know the lyrics, you tape. Now they have iPads,
but I would pull out a little Rolodex cheat sheets
and I'd tape them to the mic and I'd sing
the songs. Like I said, nobody's paying attention to the band,
(11:48):
so they don't see but I still identify as that person,
and no matter what when I go to a wet
someone else's wedding or burmits, or when I get paid
to like a lot of money to be a guest
or somebody's and sing a couple. So wow, and I'm
really taking back. So I'm like, I used to make
a hundred bucks, you know, for the night to sing,
(12:10):
and then I'm up there and I still feel like
that that unknown girl just trying to do a great
job and get the song done.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
That's amazing. Yeah, that's incredible. What are the next steps?
Like when you when you hear about that experience that
you're in and I am doing a bit of biography
chatting because I do find it fascinating, Like, you know,
you look at the stage you're on today and you
look back there and you're like, wow, that's that's a
long long way. And I think it's easy externally to
be like, oh yeah, there was these line of great
(12:43):
things that happened and it took off, But like what's
the next step from that? Like happen like the pretty
much immediately like after you're doing that and guessing is
that building your confidence? Is it just allowing you to
pay for a few things on the side, like what
is that doing for you?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
To be a working singer? To make a living as
a singer, especially at that age, was a source of
deep pride ye me. Then as I kept getting rejected
at auditions, I was writing my own music. I was
trying to get a record deal. Nothing was happening. Now
I'm doing it six seven years. Now, I'm getting a
little bit annoyed.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You were seeing a weddings and but mins was for
like six seven.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah. It go in and out depending. When I was
in college, I went to NYU, and certain semesters it
was rough, but then other semesters I could pick up
gigs and so then I would be a little bit
more I'd like to say disgruntled. And I'd stand and
I think I'm doing this when I'm thirty, you know,
I'm quitting the business. And I get in trouble the band.
(13:45):
The band leader would say, you have an attitude today,
and I'd be thinking, because I just I'm going to
be something one day. You know, I'm going to get
out of here, so I forget where your question, Well, no,
my question is that I do What was the next
thing like that, is that that's do you're doing exactly
what it's asking, like that idea that you're going to auditions,
What were you auditioning for?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Like what was well important to you at that?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah. So when I was a little girl, my parents
took me and I grew up in Long Island, they
take me into the city to see Broadway shows. I
wanted to be on Broadway. Then when I started doing
all these weddings and seeing all these kinds of music,
I started writing my own music, and my taste evolved
with the kind of music that I wanted to sing,
and so then I wanted my own record deal and
(14:29):
wanted to make albums, and so I would now also
put rock bands together, and I'd go play at CBGB's
and at the Bitter End in the village, and so
that started to be the thing that I wanted. And
then I finally, at finally, at twenty five, I got
the original cast of Rent, which was the big rock
(14:52):
musical of the time, but it was theater, but it
was rock. And so that started me on this sort
of path of kind of straddling both worlds always, which
back then in the nineties it was not it was
frowned upon to try to go from theater to legitimate
rock pop kind of career. Now everyone can do everything,
(15:15):
but back then you didn't. If you're a movie star,
you didn't do TV. And if you were a theater person,
you weren't going to be people wouldn't believe you as
a as a rock star. But here I was kind
of in both, and so I did that dance for
a long time. And now you get to the point
where you've done so many different things and so many
(15:37):
I put out so many kinds of albums and that
I can get on stage and I don't care that
I'm one particular style because now my body of work
is who I am. But it's taken me all that
time to feel like I have a story and identity,
because back then it was like, look, who are you?
What kind of singer are you? What are you going
(15:57):
to be? What do you represent? And I said, well,
I can do and I can do motown, and I
can do Madonna and when you use it and rock
and roll, and so my versatility was my curse.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Wow, and what were you doing by age thirty? Because
you said, when I get to if I'm doing this
by thirty, I'm going to quit what were you actually doing.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
When I was in a workshop of Wicked. Okay, so
I was hired to develop Wicked, which was a five
year process, and ever after every workshop of that, I
always thought they were going to replace me with someone
more famous or something, and so I always thought I
was going to get fired. So the fact that I
actually got to the Gershwin Theater when I was I
(16:34):
don't know, thirty two, I was like, who, you know?
You always think you're going to get fired in this business.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So when they bring you into develop and part of
my ignorance, yes, so they're bringing you into develops and
what is that? What does that actually mean? Does that
mean you might make it into the show or you're
in the behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
They say they're looking for their amuses, you know, and
so they'd like to find the people that they are
writing for, because the composers are writing and for your voice,
and which is like the greatest honor that was Rent
was like that as well, and most of the things
I do because their original musicals they go through these
long developmental processes, which I love. I love standing on
(17:13):
a piano and an incredibly talented composer like Steven Schwartz
or Tom kitt or Jonathan Larson, and they say, figure
out where my voice sits and how they want to
write something so that I can soar, you know, and
the character can soar. Sometimes that guests confused, but or
(17:34):
it's one and the same.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But I love that process so much. And what it
is is you go in a room, usually in like
a regular rehearsal room, and sometimes they only have the
first act. Sometimes they have the whole thing, but then
they so you do like a little reading of it
for a bunch of people, investors, and then everyone gives notes.
And then six months later they've scrapped a bunch of things.
Maybe they took a song out of Act two and
(17:56):
put it in F one, and now that offsets the
whole balance. And then and this part sucks, but this
part's really working, you know, and they keep having to
and you just go with the flow. And I find
it fascinating that whole process.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, No, it's interesting hearing about it as a fan
of Broadway. I always have been in the West End
in London where I grew up, and then Broadway here.
It's interesting knowing how it works because I think you
take for granted that some of these things, the amount
of time they take in development before we even see them.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's funny. I did Wicket at the West End for
six months a year and a half after I left
it here in New York. I always wanted to open
a show on the West End. To me, that was
the most prestigious thing to do, and I had one
of the greatest times of my life. I had two
Australians starring with me, who taught me how to party
(18:47):
and do hos a week, which I think I only
learned that because they like to take credit for that,
but I also think it's because I had already wanted Tony.
I knew I wasn't going to get fired. I knew
how to pace myself hos a week. The pressure was
off me and so I could go to the pub after.
But you know, when when you're in the beginnings of
(19:07):
a show, you're just you know, you're you're a monk, yes,
and you don't do anything and you go home and
you watch movies and you don't drink alcohol and you
know so, and that can be kind of lonely.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, those schedules seem just insane. I was with a
friend recently, they're piloting a show in San Diego at
the Old Globe Theater to try and take it into Broadway,
and so I was watching her and she was telling
me about her schedule, and then we just I just
went and saw the music Man this Sunday and like
watching you do that, and I was it was just
(19:40):
it's fascinating to me to think just what a tough
schedule that is. It's exhaust yeah, it's And how do
you like? What were your coping mechanisms the first time round?
Like not when you'd won the tourny.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
First time with friends? I I lost my boy well,
I started I was abusing my voice. I didn't I would.
I took boys lesson in my whole life, but I
stop going to my teacher at one point, and I
just had never even though I was singing all those
gigs at the weddings, I had never done eight shows
a week, and so I had to look go back
(20:10):
to a teacher and address all the different problem spots
in the show for myself. And then I ended up
being stronger than ever and then it's never happened to
me again. But back then, you know, the I don't know,
if you're familiar with Jonathan Larson, who wrote he was
a composer of I don't, but I know. He passed
away early on in our process, and it was a
very emotional time for all of us, and we all
(20:33):
felt so committed to never missing a show because we
just felt like our mission was to show up and
communicate his message, you know. So for six months, not
one of us missed a show. I was actually the
first one because the doctor ordered me to have voice
for us, and I've never had a cast do that ever.
(20:54):
I realized that was very rare that people wouldn't miss
a show for six months. That's so that was a
commitment and that set a precedent. I think for me,
it's also because you know, have an ego and I
don't want my understandy to go on all the time.
But but yeah, and the more people coming to see
(21:17):
a show with your name on the marquee, the more
pressure you feel to be there.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, that's.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
A lot of pressure. But I learned, you learn to
pace yourself and you learn. What I like to say
is I have an A, B, and a C show.
So the A show is the one that has lots
of acrobatic vocals and what I want to sing if
I could all the time. The B and the C
are melodies that are maybe not as hard, but people
(21:45):
don't even notice itogize, and so it's a psychological thing
for me that I don't feel like I'm failing if
I don't get the A show. I just say I
have a cold to go out there and do a
really great B show today, and then I and then
the pressure's off and I end up having a great show.
So there's a lot of it's mental, you know, and just.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
That's a great technique. I love that. I don't think
I've ever heard anyone say that before, because I think
people think that you only have two choices. You're off. Yeah,
you're on or off, and that's actually not true. I
love the ABC grading for anything in life because I
don't think we're ever at our a game every single day.
It's not possible.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, And how many times do you realize you think
you had the worst show, interview, whatever, and then someone
comes and they had no idea what you're talking all
that dialogue in your head, that's sabotaging.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah. I went to public speaking drama schools since I
was eleven years old, and so I've been in public
speaking is now the majority of my life, and so
there is I know exactly when I think I messed
the lineup or didn't quite get that message across right,
and I'll be over analyzing it. I used to do
a lot more earlier days, but then you realize no
one even noticed any percentage of that. But I love
(22:56):
your ABC grading.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, I wish I could do that with life.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, well, I think it's a good tool for life.
I'm hoping that.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Mom, I'm not going to get it all right, you
know today, and my son's gonna be angry with me.
But that's okay. But I'm really hard on myself about
that stuff. I'm hard on myself in general. I'd like
to so give myself a break.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah yeah, yeah, how did you How do you think
you were able to give yourself a break on stage?
Because that's obviously in one sense. I mean, I'm sure
and I'd love to hear this as from a mother's perspective,
but and I don't want to assume either way. But
I'm guessing you may say that actually being a mother
to one child is actually more pressure than performing in
front of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And when I became a mother, I found perspective. Obviously,
I became less self absorbed. I realized that my son
has a fever tonight. I want to snuggle with him,
take care of him. I don't want to worry that.
I don't care if I get sick. Yeah, I got
a big show tomorrow. What happens if I get throat
(24:00):
or something, Well, it's too bad. I'm not going to
sleep in the other room. That's just not going to
be I just have to be with them. So then
I'd wake up the next day, didn't get a lot
of sleep worrying about my kid. I'm on stage. What
can I do? I'm doing the best I can. I'd
have the best shows, yeah, you know, because I just,
you know, lower the expectations of myself and for myself.
(24:22):
And that's really it changed my life in a lot
of ways. When you have something that you care about
way more.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, so what do you think it's going to take?
I love what you said there, and I think everyone
can relate to that. I think anyone is listening right now.
If you're a mother, you definitely feel if you're not
a mother, you'll feel it like the idea of I
just need to be a bit easier on myself, Like
I think most people are very self critical, h most
people who even come across as confident or even arrogant
or often insecure and dealing with something internally.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So I'm not an expert and no, not an expert.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm just intrigued as to how you think you get
to like what well.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
And I also I'm not a shamed to say my
public assisians probably don't say that, but I take you know, prozac,
and I have help, and I yeah, because there are
some days where I just I'm you know, people expect
me to let it go and I can't, you know.
So I'm doing the best that I can. But being
(25:20):
in the moment, being present, you know, it's just the
hardest thing to do. It's like what we aspire to
do as artists, actors, singers to you know. It's it's
so weird because the greatest moments I have when I'm
performing are usually moments I can't even remember because they
I transcend it in some way, you know, but trying.
(25:41):
But that's not being present then, you know, and that
you know, you can meditate, you can do all these things,
but it's trying to achieve just one moment where I
felt like I'm here in my body, understanding this without
judging myself, without criticized. And so I don't I don't
(26:02):
have the answers. I just I give myself things to
try to stay in the moment, you know, whether it's
very clinical, just think about the lyrics, think about breathing,
think about getting Walker to school tomorrow, or focusing on
the person in front of me and trying to change
them in the scene or the song. You know. But
sometimes it's just it's really hard. I can't get out
(26:25):
of there. In other days I can.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, But I think that ABC grading is you've already
You've already come up with the perfect But it's what
you said. It's like, that's that is the way we
all need to think. How you started thinking about the stage,
you think about our life network. I think it's a
great it's a great method.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And I also have an incredible husband who was an actor.
His life changed and he became he's a clinical director
of uh An impatient facility in California has two houses recovery,
alcohol and drug recovery and also mental illness and so
(27:09):
he thinks I'm just like a piece of cake all
the time, which is really nice to come home and
think He's like, what that mood is fine, that's nothing,
you know. So that's given me some perspective too. He
just thinks all my neuroses is like normal and he
can handle he can handle it. I'm not too much.
I'm not too much for him.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
That's beautiful. That's a really special Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, no,
I mean yeah, that's that's a beautiful thing to have
in your life. Yeah, And I think it's I think
that's true for pretty much. I often think with relationships
and with my wife, I I if I sat there,
I could easily reel off reasons why I think she's
(27:48):
annoying or frustrating or whatever. Maybe, like that's easy. I
think anyone could do that if they've been longer long
enough with someone. But if I stop to think about
the things that are special about her and unique about her,
and the thing that she does that no one else
could do, all of a sudden, it's like all those
other things seem so insignificant and irrelevant, And I think
it's so easy to amplify those small, irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
And my life is too short. I'm gonna get he's
gonna I mean, he gets on my nerves so much
when we travel because I'm traveling all the time. I
know how to wear my I don't wear shoes with laces.
I get through the security, I know how to do it.
If something changes, I can go get another flight. I'm
moving and grooving. He walks too slow. He doesn't have
that aggressive traveling attitude. And I'm like, oh, and then
(28:33):
I realize, why am I you know, he's sweet? Why
is this getting on my nerves that life's too short? Yeah,
he's when it comes down to it, he's an incredible
father and my son, and he's there for me whenever
I need him, and he really sees me, sees my soul,
and so so those little things are so silly.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah. Yeah, And I feel like we all pair up
with someone who's exactly the other way. Like I'm probably
more like you in that sense as you describe that,
just like you know, I'm like, I want to get
to the airport three hours early and figure everything out,
and like I don't like rushing. I don't like being late.
And my wife's like, you know, just like she's having
to run to the the what do you call it,
(29:15):
the terminal? Like run to the yeah, the gate, sorry,
the gate, Yeah, run to the gate. And I'm like,
I don't want to live like this, And she loves
the pressure and whatever it may be. So, but I
feel like we always pair up with people like that.
But with your dreams earlier you said that, she's like,
you know, dreams for the future. Like, what are the
dreams now, Like, how have your dream shifted? You changed,
or what's left? You said elusive? Some of the dreams
(29:36):
are still elusive. You said that's the word.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Well, now talking to you, they seem so trivial. Well, professionally,
there's things. I want to be a better performer, a
better artist. I want to work with people that I've
always looked up to. I want to work with some
more people like that that teach me stuff. I want
to create more original music. But my son is mixed.
(30:03):
He's uh, he identifies as black, and I see him
as a black thirteen year old boy, little man. That's
kind of where a lot of my focus is, I
think lately, is I don't want my whiteness to be
something that I know people say, you're the mom he's
going to love you, but he's super smart and intuitive,
and there's going to be things that I can't understand
(30:26):
for him because I'm not in his skin. And I
find myself preoccupied with that a lot, like how can
I be so close to him, be the one that
he can come to for everything? If I can't totally
understand all that because I just haven't lived it, How
can I educate myself? How can I be better in
that way? And as he's getting older, he's becoming more
(30:48):
and more aware of the society that he lives in
and the chaotic world he lives in, the violence, the racism,
and I just want to be someone he can come to,
you know. So I'm probably overthinking a lot of that,
but that's a lot where my energy goes to, just
how can I really be better in that way for him?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean I think my parents felt that
way when I was a kid, for different reasons completely,
but I was mine was probably not as smart or
as intuitive as your son sounds, but I was highly
rebellious and I was getting involved in all the wrong
places and circles, and my parents didn't raise me that way,
and they, you know, they did only thing everything right
(31:31):
and they were loving.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And why were you pushing back?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I think I was. I think I've always been like
a thrill seeker, Like I've always deeply wanted a purpose.
I didn't know that word at that at thirteen, Like
I just thought thrill meant excitement, and almost like doing
well in school and getting good grades like didn't feel
like enough. I was like, that can't be the goal
of life, to do well at school, Like, that can't
be it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
You got to live.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
There has to be yeah, like what does it mean
to live? Right? What does it mean? And And I
feel like it's really interesting because that age at least,
and whenever I'm working with someone or whenever I hear
about that, I always feel like that's the age when
kids kind of like start going off in their own journeys,
in their own directions. And one thing that my dad
did that I think was a game changer because I
(32:16):
realized that at that point, no matter what my parents said,
I wasn't going to listen to it, no matter what
they said. And I think a lot of parent of
your job, Yeah, yeah, and yeah, exactly right. And I
think every child, everyone who's been a child, everyone has
that experience of yeah, I didn't listen to my parents
when I was thirteen, and then I think every parent
has that experience of my kids don't listen to me
from like thirteen to twenty one maybe, and then my
(32:38):
dad started giving me books of people's lives, of people
that he thought I'd be inspired by based on my ambitions,
my rebellion. But at that time it started to be
people like Malcolm Max and Martin Luther King, and then
later on I read Einstein, and then I was also
reading people like that that I was interested in as
a fifteen year old kid, like David Beckham and so
I was into soccer or doing the Johnson because he
(33:00):
was in WWE, and so I was reading Malcolm X
on one side and David Beckham on the other. But
it was really fascinating to me because it was almost
like those people could talk to me at that time
in a way that my parents never could, because they
had lived experiences or things that for some reason, you know,
connected with me and resonated with me in a way
(33:21):
that even if my parents said the same things, it
would never have connected. And I wonder, hence you writing
a children's book, which is where my direction's going. It's like,
I'm fascinated by who the voice is your son needs
to hear right now at this time in his life.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, I it's no.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I don't think it ever is your parents, not because
our parents are wrong. Like there's that famous quote. I
don't know who said it, but it's the day you
realize your parents were right. Your kids are telling you
that you're wrong exactly, and you know, it's one of
those moments like now I'm so grateful to my parents
and I can see everything. I'm thirty five and I'm like, okay, yeah,
I value everything my parents did and they tried their best.
(33:59):
But in those times, I find like finding the voices
of other people that feel like your voice to you,
that he could hear it from someone else feels like,
you know, it feels like I'm wondering this children's book.
Was that a way of communicating to like, what was
the Yeah, what was the purpose behind it?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I want him to hear that message. My son's pretty confident.
So I think the book comes from my interaction with
so many young people through all the projects that I've
been a part of, and these multi generational projects, you know,
of really seeing lots of young people inhibit themselves on
(34:42):
scorn their unique qualities, and I relate to that because
that's how I was. My son's pretty sure of himself.
So hopefully that's good. I mean, because I think we
all as parents project, you know, all the stuff that
I need to work on and myself. When you have
a kid that comes like glaring back at you, you know,
(35:03):
he's okay with the spotlight, you know. So I don't
know if this book is necessarily written for him to
help him, because he teaches me. I you know, I am,
he said, he said, Mom, when I get my braces
off and I and I go through puberty, this is
(35:25):
going to be no stocking. He means that with the
girls everything. So it's like I just need to take
a lesson from my son, you know. So I think
the book comes from I wrote it with my sister,
first of all, who I'm very close to, Kara, and
and she's a teacher, an elementary school teacher, a writer,
(35:48):
and also specialize in literacy at school. So I wanted
to write it with her because she's a pro, and
she understood me better than anyone else in the world
understands me. She's the closest person to me. She's younger,
but she's the wiser, she's the older soul. And it
was the two of us writing lists together because we
experienced it as sisters. I was always loud and singing
(36:11):
and taking up all this space, and she was always
am I supposed to know what I want to do
at the age of seven, you know, I don't know
what I want to do. And so we've been really
exploring all of those that's so old issues, I think.
So that's more for those kids that are just a
little bit hesitant to kind of allow people to see them,
(36:31):
you know, and allow themselves to be vulnerable and take
a risk.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, that's that's fascinating. Yeah. I have a younger sister
and we became we're still extremely close. She's like my
best friend. She knows everything about me, and I know
everything about her, and she's I almost treat it like
a little child. She's only five years younger than me.
To me, that's I remember holding her when I was
five years old and she was this tiny, little bay.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
It's one of those, like, you know, very special memories
of kind of seeing her grow up and feeling old
even though I was old. But it's interesting, like I
think with siblings, it's it's fascinating to hear that that
difference also of being okay with one being loud and
one being silent, and noticing how neither of those strengths
(37:16):
or weaknesses. Although I think it's often imprinted that someone
is loud is more confident and.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Is more right, and that's totally a contradiction, at least
in me. I mean, if you saw me at home,
I'm actually kind of quiet, and people that meet me,
they say, oh, you're actually really soft spoken, and so
the big the girl with the big voice and singing
to the rafters is definitely part of me. But I
think we all have these different sides. And then my sister,
(37:45):
who is very soft spoken. She's the one that when
I went to watch her teach, she was a TA
back in Boulder at See You, and she didn't know
what she wanted to do. And I was like some
neuroscience classes and she was a TA and I sat
in the back and watched her and she was unbelievable,
so charismatic, so on her voice, so engaging. The students
(38:07):
loved her, and I said, this is your thing, Like
you got to teach, you know, so our voice emerges
in many different ways, and I think it's a little
bit a misconception that someone like me, who knows how
to produce loud sounds and hit the back row, is
necessarily comfortable in her own voice in my own life,
(38:30):
because especially given that mantle to always sing, let it
go to kids or defy gravity, it's like, oh, you know,
I'm not always that example. I mean, I have those
days where I can't get out of bed myself and
I have to find my voice as well. And it's
(38:51):
so I hate for people to think that there's this
perception of me that I'm fearless because I'm not.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, of course, And it sounds like this book is
also of finding your voice, because yeah, you're playing so
many other voices.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yes, well yeah, I mean it's it's autobiographical and a
too Little Mouse, too little mice away, But I love
that you chose a mouse to really yeah, because the
mouse feels is so small. But when she sings, she's
the joy and the sound of her voice. When she
(39:26):
decides to share it with the class instead of just
keeping it to herself at home, she ends up becoming
a huge, huge, huge mouth and now everybody can see
her and hear her, and that invites a lot of scrutiny,
a lot of accolades, but a lot of different things,
you know, And that's I think that's what happens with
(39:47):
all of us when we allow ourselves to be seen.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I'm always finding I'm always intrigued by people who play
lots of voices. And as you said, like, I think
everyone's always searching for their voice in life because they
forget that their early voice was so informed by their parents,
and then their later voice was so informed by friends,
and then our voice is just always a mix of
other people's noise. And then I wonder for you, do
(40:13):
you ever feel like you've rubbed off on the voices
of your characters? Your characters' voices rub off on you,
Like I'm always fascinated by people who play people for
a living, Like how that.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
That's what I was saying before checking the egg. How
much am I bringing to something that then the writers
are inspired by what I'm bringing? And how much is
the part sort of finding me?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Which characters do you think? Which characters do you think
rubbed off the most on you? In a.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Each one was like a gift at the time, you know,
like the Rent stuff was really it was a celebration
that character was unafraid, sexy, money, just an excuse for
me to really be all those things. And then when
(41:06):
Wicked came along, I was definitely more insecure and needing
to sort of allow myself to not be afraid of
my own anger and my larger than life qualities, you know,
So that one was really art imitating life. You know,
so different things.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I don't know, that's a beautiful Yeah, No, there's there's wonderful.
It's just so's it's just so much. Yeah, it's so
much more when you're playing someone deeply, it's so much
more deeper than just a character right.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Now, and then you live with that how many shows
a year?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, that's well, that's even more than a movie, right,
Like even more than a TV show a movie. It's
like this character is.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, and I've had two instances now with Rent the movie.
We did it ten years after we left. I left
the show and then had this sequel to Enchanted, Disenchanted
coming out now, and that's fifteen years later. And it's
kind of fun to revisit a character years later because
(42:11):
it's just you see how like life is informed you're
who you are and how you approach the character. Now
it's really I find it really fascinating to go back
and see that if I threw caution to the wind
a lot. I didn't have as much process when I
was younger, just kind of like was raw and in
the moment and spontaneous and in the moment. But the
(42:35):
older I've been getting, the less in the moment I
am because the more you're aware of how far you
can fall, you know, and you get in your head.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
So I don't know, Yeah, what's something that you feel
you used to value that you don't value anymore, Something
that was important to you that's become less and less important.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Hmm. I was going to say being liked, but having
people care about what people think, But I think I
still care about what people think.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, when I was asked, I was asked this question,
and that's where I started to involve in my interviews.
And it was probably one of the only questions that
made me stop and think, like you had to, you know,
most questions you're just talking. And then my answer to
it in the moment, without thinking about it, in like
seven seconds of thinking about it was being understood. I
(43:27):
think I realized that ninety nine percent of the world
would never be able to understand anyone fully. I don't
think it's actually possible. And I think the pressure we
put on ourselves to try to understand someone fully rushes
the process of understanding them half And so like that
feeling of oh, I understand you, Like even we just
(43:49):
want to be able to say that, and we want
to be able to say that so quickly.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I'm saying about my son, Yeah, I will never yeah,
be able to be all those things to him exactly. Yeah,
live in a white woman's body and my background and
where I've come from, and just because he came from
my womb, I think the carte blanche to understand his emotion,
you know. So that's very frustrating, Yeah, and I need
(44:16):
to just accept that.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, and accepting it just Yeah. I think for me,
it was like I realized that even if someone does
understand you, they won't understand you in the way you
want them to understand you, right, even in wanting to
be understood, like you're talking about trying to understand someone else,
but even I think all of us crave to be understood.
When we say.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Something we're really seeing, like someone really gets me exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
And I found even the people that really get you
don't really they don't they get me.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
They do.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
My closest friends really get me. But even then, there's
a part of you that only you get and no
one will ever know. And that's and being at peace
with that has been very good for me. If you
could create one law that everyone in the world had
to follow, what would it be.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It would just be to mind your own business, stop
worrying about what other people are doing, and live your
own life.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That's a great one. I love that it didn't Mazelle. Everyone,
if you have been listening or watching, thank you so
much for tuning in. Make sure you share what you learned,
what you took away, any reflections, any questions that you've
had tig us both on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter,
all the platforms that you know that we're on right now.
And of course, the book loud Mouse is available. We're
(45:29):
going to put the link in the show notes so
you can order it as well. You can read along.
I know I'm going to be ordering a ton of
copies for my nieces and nephews.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, and there's a refrain in it, so there's a
song I wrote that I love that that goes along
with that, and you don't have to sing it.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Like I definitely will not sing it.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Just start.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I never don't see it, but I'll be ordering them,
ordering the book for my nieces and nephews to share
it with them as well. I know that it's probably
one of my favorite things to do is to sit
down and read it to your child. And I don't
have two kids on my own yet, but when I
do it with nieces and nephews or you know, my godsaid,
it's like one of the most fun, fun bonding experiences.
(46:10):
I look forward to that. Yeah, thank you, thank you.
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with
Megan Trainer on breaking generational trauma and how to be
confident from the inside out.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for
five minutes. It was already tough for me to love
my body. But after the C section scarf with all
the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've
been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I
was like, you know what her thighs are cute,
My next guest is Adina Menzel. She has a new
album called Drama Queen and a children's book called Proud
Mouse out September twelfth. Make sure to watch and read.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
My son is Mixed. I don't want my whiteness to
be something that I know people say you're the mom.
He's going to love you, but there's going to be
things that I can't understand for him because I'm not
in his skin. And as he's getting older, he's becoming
more and more aware of the society that he lives
in and the violence, the racism, and I just want
(00:31):
to be someone he can come to, you know. The
best selling author in the post.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
The number one health and wellness.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am so
grateful for our community here at the number one health
podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every one
of you that come back every week to listen, learn
and grow. And I know that you're always looking for
new stories, new ideas, new things to bring into your
life so that you can feel better, feel happy. I
feel healthier and feel healed. And today I'm talking to
(01:02):
a guest who has a really unique experience of life.
And that's what I love. I love learning about people
who've come from different backgrounds, different walks of life, taken
different parts. And I'm speaking to all of you about
Idina Menzel, a powerhouse multi hyphenet, a singer, an actress
in film and TV, a songwriter, a Broadway star, and
(01:23):
a philanthropist. And I mean her accolades are absolutely unbelievable.
Adina rose to fame for her role as Maureen in
the popular Broadway musical Rent, and their career took off
when she won a Tony Award for her role as Alphabet,
the Wicked Witch of the West in the musical Wicked.
If you haven't seen it, it's phenomenal. I can't believe
you haven't seen it yet. Adina's voice can be heard
(01:45):
as Elsa in Disney's Oscar winning Frozen, the second highest
grossing animated film of all time, with more than one
point two billion dollars in worldwide box office revenue, and
right now she's out talking about her children's book Loud Mouse,
which we'll be hearing about today as well. Please welcome
to the show, Dinna Manzelle, and thank you for.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Doing this, Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
Yeah, it's so grateful to meet you and so happy
to get to spend this time with you. I know
you've had a long day. We're just talking about. You've
been up since four am.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Yeah, and I'm on the LA time. So that's what
that was weird because I couldn't get to bed, yeah,
with my jet lag, so I'm running on empty. But
I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I'm just coming as well three days ago, and so
I know that feels like But I guess the question
is that you've been up since four am, You've been
doing so much work today. What drives you? What motivates you?
What what keeps you going?
Speaker 2 (02:35):
My son, my thirteen year old son Walker, I think
that's the main driving force. I mean, obviously creativity and
my you know, artistic soul, my desire to keep creating
and finding new ways to express myself. But if I'm
(02:58):
being completely honest, it's you know, it's how can I
be a better mom? How what am I doing today
to help my son? You know? My relationship with my husband.
I think it's because I'm I've turned fifty now, and
the ambition starts to weigh a little bit when you
(03:22):
when you have a little success too, you know, like
start to feel okay, like I can afford to pay
for his schooling, and I can pay my mortgage, and
I'm doing wonderful things and working with terrific people, and
so I can relax a little bit. When I was younger,
I was just pounding the pavement so hard, you know,
(03:44):
and really I believed in myself, but I was just
really working hard and playing gigs everywhere and trying to
get noticed. And so at this age it starts to
you know, you go, Okay, everything's everything's going to be okay,
you know, and so you want to give a lot
of energy to your relations, to your marriage, to your child.
(04:07):
And that's why this children's book is. I guess this
sort of an organic step in the evolution of things,
you know, because people always ask me to do one,
you know, because I guess my trajectory of characters and
this sort of alpha us and Elsa's and these amazing
(04:29):
young women that have all this incredible power and our
role models for kids, and it's all about, you know,
embracing that power and harnessing it and not being afraid
to send it out into the world. You know, there's
for some reason. There's the universe has thrown these things
(04:51):
my way. I don't know if it's the chicken or
the egg. Is it me, you know, choosing these somehow,
even though they were jobs I needed and I had
to do for them. So I think that there's in
the tradition of those characters. I felt that I wanted
to write a children's book that was about really me
(05:13):
having those very similar experiences when I was little, and
really believing in myself at a young age, really recognizing
that I had something special to offer, but also being
hesitant to share it out of fear of being alienated,
being disliked, feeling like I was calling too much attention
(05:35):
to myself. How much space can we take up in
the world, what's allowed? You know, especially as women, I
think we're always sort of second guessing ourselves. So that's
what the book's about. But that's what I do with
as a grown up too. Every day. I'm still second
guessing when I walk in a room, how much space
I can take up, how big my voice is literally
(05:58):
and metaphorically.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
Well, and how do you think your view has changed
of what you view as important from that time when
you were like grinding and hustling and busy, working hard
to now having a bit more I guess structure and
peace and a bit of arrival feeling, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
The desperation isn't there, you know, it doesn't mean that
I'm not still dreaming and there's not things that I
There are still things I want. There's a lot of
things that I find still elusive to me. We could
talk about that. But so I still have ambition, but
the fear of literally not being able to pay my
(06:41):
rent or not making good on my commitment to myself
as a young girl, of working hard to have my
dream come true. My dreams have come true. I perform
on a stage, I perform in all these incredible venues
for thousands of people and Disney Princess Queen for God's sakes,
(07:03):
you know. So, But you know, the more you get,
the more you want, and you see things differently through
different a different lens when you become a mom.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
Yeah, it was two things you hit there which I
read about you when I I was looking for this interview.
You said, do you have many dreams? But then one
of the dreams I've heard you've had is your teeth
falling out right. I know that's a different time, different
type of dreams. That's not the kind of dream that Yeah, yeah,
that's my night. You Have you ever looked into all
(07:34):
the meetings behind?
Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah, it's all about anxiety.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Have you ever found a meaning that sits well with you,
that gives you some comfort in life?
Speaker 2 (07:42):
No, not that dream. It's always such anxiety. And that's
what I've read about it. And I also usually the
teeth come out and you can hear the sound of
them slinking against Yeah, I have that one. And I
have one that I never actually graduated college and I'm
too credit short. I have it so much that I
still wake up with a feeling of like, why do
I feel unseubtled? Oh you think you didn't. Let's a wait, No,
(08:05):
I was there, I got my diploma.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, I get the dream of like I have another
exam again. I think that's the one that sets me up.
I'm like, no, I don't want to do another exam. God,
enough exams in my life. But no, that that that's interesting.
And yeah, that lack of control, I think that's what
I've seen it as well, Like when you're losing your
teeth in a dream, it's like feeling like the anxiety
and losing control.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And then then I have cracked a tooth and a
bagel close like my nightmares coming true, you know whatever, yeah,
oh my gosh, yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
Yeahs and hearing the teeth that sounds sounds make me
very like skirmish, I feel like sounds tough. And then
also with working hard, I mean before this, you used
to well, not before this, a long time ago, you
used to perform at the mitzpahs and weddings. Yeah, which
which one did you prefer? Was there a better one?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Well? I went through different phases. When I was fifteen
years old, my parents parents divorced, and I wanted to
get a job to kind of help out that, you know,
dad was supporting two households. And my mom started dating
this guy who was really sweet and saw talent in me.
And he knew some guy that had a wedding band
(09:16):
out in Long Island, and he said, you should auditionize.
I don't know en f songs, you know. And we
lied about my age because we didn't want them to
worry that I was still kid, so we said I
was eighteen, like that's so old. And I started learning
a bunch of songs. I put on kind of a
slutty dress and I went in and I sang what
(09:37):
I sing back, I'm dating myself, but I sang Evergreen
like a Barber Streisen sung, and I sang We're walking
on sunshine. Oh, I remember I saying a flash dance song. Anyway,
and I got the job and I started working all
the time, weddings, permits, visit, it didn't matter. They all
can be bad because nobody's listening. They can be really wonderful,
(10:00):
especially for a young girl becoming trying to figure out
my identity as a vocalist, having to learn so many
kinds of genres of music, you know, like motown, pop, rock, jazz.
So I really that was kind of my education of music.
(10:20):
And I'm working. There's a lot of incredible musicians that
do it as a side gig just to make extra money.
So the good thing about people not listening is you
can try a lot of it. And one of my
favorite times would be when they say, like ladies and gentlemen,
please take your seat, your salad is being served, and
then the band would take a break except for me
(10:41):
and like the keyboard player, and then we'd sing, you know,
a Billie Holiday Tune or Eli Fitzgerald. And at a
young age, I learned what melody is and I would
listen to them on the car ride to the gig,
and then I'd learned what I was contributing to it,
how to improvise, and where were my instincts, my impulses
(11:06):
as a singer. And so I actually still identify with
I still see myself as that girl, the chick gig singer,
a wedding singer. And it's been so much longer that
I've not been that than I was, but I still
just feel like that's who I am when I'm on stage.
I could be at Madison Square Garden. I'm still with
(11:27):
my band. I want a jam. I'm okay with spontaneity.
You walk on. I was fifteen years old, and they
call it tune. You have to call it in the
right key. You have to know the lyrics. If you
don't know the lyrics, you tape. Now they have iPads,
but I would pull out a little Rolodex cheat sheets
and I'd tape them to the mic and I'd sing
the songs. Like I said, nobody's paying attention to the band,
(11:48):
so they don't see but I still identify as that person,
and no matter what when I go to a wet
someone else's wedding or burmits, or when I get paid
to like a lot of money to be a guest
or somebody's and sing a couple. So wow, and I'm
really taking back. So I'm like, I used to make
a hundred bucks, you know, for the night to sing,
(12:10):
and then I'm up there and I still feel like
that that unknown girl just trying to do a great
job and get the song done.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
That's amazing. Yeah, that's incredible. What are the next steps?
Like when you when you hear about that experience that
you're in and I am doing a bit of biography
chatting because I do find it fascinating, Like, you know,
you look at the stage you're on today and you
look back there and you're like, wow, that's that's a
long long way. And I think it's easy externally to
be like, oh yeah, there was these line of great
(12:43):
things that happened and it took off, But like what's
the next step from that? Like happen like the pretty
much immediately like after you're doing that and guessing is
that building your confidence? Is it just allowing you to
pay for a few things on the side, like what
is that doing for you?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
To be a working singer? To make a living as
a singer, especially at that age, was a source of
deep pride ye me. Then as I kept getting rejected
at auditions, I was writing my own music. I was
trying to get a record deal. Nothing was happening. Now
I'm doing it six seven years. Now, I'm getting a
little bit annoyed.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
You were seeing a weddings and but mins was for
like six seven.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah. It go in and out depending. When I was
in college, I went to NYU, and certain semesters it
was rough, but then other semesters I could pick up
gigs and so then I would be a little bit
more I'd like to say disgruntled. And I'd stand and
I think I'm doing this when I'm thirty, you know,
I'm quitting the business. And I get in trouble the band.
(13:45):
The band leader would say, you have an attitude today,
and I'd be thinking, because I just I'm going to
be something one day. You know, I'm going to get
out of here, so I forget where your question, Well, no,
my question is that I do What was the next
thing like that, is that that's do you're doing exactly
what it's asking, like that idea that you're going to auditions,
What were you auditioning for?
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Like what was well important to you at that?
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Yeah. So when I was a little girl, my parents
took me and I grew up in Long Island, they
take me into the city to see Broadway shows. I
wanted to be on Broadway. Then when I started doing
all these weddings and seeing all these kinds of music,
I started writing my own music, and my taste evolved
with the kind of music that I wanted to sing,
and so then I wanted my own record deal and
(14:29):
wanted to make albums, and so I would now also
put rock bands together, and I'd go play at CBGB's
and at the Bitter End in the village, and so
that started to be the thing that I wanted. And
then I finally, at finally, at twenty five, I got
the original cast of Rent, which was the big rock
(14:52):
musical of the time, but it was theater, but it
was rock. And so that started me on this sort
of path of kind of straddling both worlds always, which
back then in the nineties it was not it was
frowned upon to try to go from theater to legitimate
rock pop kind of career. Now everyone can do everything,
(15:15):
but back then you didn't. If you're a movie star,
you didn't do TV. And if you were a theater person,
you weren't going to be people wouldn't believe you as
a as a rock star. But here I was kind
of in both, and so I did that dance for
a long time. And now you get to the point
where you've done so many different things and so many
(15:37):
I put out so many kinds of albums and that
I can get on stage and I don't care that
I'm one particular style because now my body of work
is who I am. But it's taken me all that
time to feel like I have a story and identity,
because back then it was like, look, who are you?
What kind of singer are you? What are you going
(15:57):
to be? What do you represent? And I said, well,
I can do and I can do motown, and I
can do Madonna and when you use it and rock
and roll, and so my versatility was my curse.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Wow, and what were you doing by age thirty? Because
you said, when I get to if I'm doing this
by thirty, I'm going to quit what were you actually doing.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
When I was in a workshop of Wicked. Okay, so
I was hired to develop Wicked, which was a five
year process, and ever after every workshop of that, I
always thought they were going to replace me with someone
more famous or something, and so I always thought I
was going to get fired. So the fact that I
actually got to the Gershwin Theater when I was I
(16:34):
don't know, thirty two, I was like, who, you know?
You always think you're going to get fired in this business.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
So when they bring you into develop and part of
my ignorance, yes, so they're bringing you into develops and
what is that? What does that actually mean? Does that
mean you might make it into the show or you're
in the behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
They say they're looking for their amuses, you know, and
so they'd like to find the people that they are
writing for, because the composers are writing and for your voice,
and which is like the greatest honor that was Rent
was like that as well, and most of the things
I do because their original musicals they go through these
long developmental processes, which I love. I love standing on
(17:13):
a piano and an incredibly talented composer like Steven Schwartz
or Tom kitt or Jonathan Larson, and they say, figure
out where my voice sits and how they want to
write something so that I can soar, you know, and
the character can soar. Sometimes that guests confused, but or
(17:34):
it's one and the same.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I guess.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
But I love that process so much. And what it
is is you go in a room, usually in like
a regular rehearsal room, and sometimes they only have the
first act. Sometimes they have the whole thing, but then
they so you do like a little reading of it
for a bunch of people, investors, and then everyone gives notes.
And then six months later they've scrapped a bunch of things.
Maybe they took a song out of Act two and
(17:56):
put it in F one, and now that offsets the
whole balance. And then and this part sucks, but this
part's really working, you know, and they keep having to
and you just go with the flow. And I find
it fascinating that whole process.
Speaker 1 (18:10):
Yeah, No, it's interesting hearing about it as a fan
of Broadway. I always have been in the West End
in London where I grew up, and then Broadway here.
It's interesting knowing how it works because I think you
take for granted that some of these things, the amount
of time they take in development before we even see them.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
It's funny. I did Wicket at the West End for
six months a year and a half after I left
it here in New York. I always wanted to open
a show on the West End. To me, that was
the most prestigious thing to do, and I had one
of the greatest times of my life. I had two
Australians starring with me, who taught me how to party
(18:47):
and do hos a week, which I think I only
learned that because they like to take credit for that,
but I also think it's because I had already wanted Tony.
I knew I wasn't going to get fired. I knew
how to pace myself hos a week. The pressure was
off me and so I could go to the pub after.
But you know, when when you're in the beginnings of
(19:07):
a show, you're just you know, you're you're a monk, yes,
and you don't do anything and you go home and
you watch movies and you don't drink alcohol and you
know so, and that can be kind of lonely.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Yeah, those schedules seem just insane. I was with a
friend recently, they're piloting a show in San Diego at
the Old Globe Theater to try and take it into Broadway,
and so I was watching her and she was telling
me about her schedule, and then we just I just
went and saw the music Man this Sunday and like
watching you do that, and I was it was just
(19:40):
it's fascinating to me to think just what a tough
schedule that is. It's exhaust yeah, it's And how do
you like? What were your coping mechanisms the first time round?
Like not when you'd won the tourny.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
First time with friends? I I lost my boy well,
I started I was abusing my voice. I didn't I would.
I took boys lesson in my whole life, but I
stop going to my teacher at one point, and I
just had never even though I was singing all those
gigs at the weddings, I had never done eight shows
a week, and so I had to look go back
(20:10):
to a teacher and address all the different problem spots
in the show for myself. And then I ended up
being stronger than ever and then it's never happened to
me again. But back then, you know, the I don't know,
if you're familiar with Jonathan Larson, who wrote he was
a composer of I don't, but I know. He passed
away early on in our process, and it was a
very emotional time for all of us, and we all
(20:33):
felt so committed to never missing a show because we
just felt like our mission was to show up and
communicate his message, you know. So for six months, not
one of us missed a show. I was actually the
first one because the doctor ordered me to have voice
for us, and I've never had a cast do that ever.
(20:54):
I realized that was very rare that people wouldn't miss
a show for six months. That's so that was a
commitment and that set a precedent. I think for me,
it's also because you know, have an ego and I
don't want my understandy to go on all the time.
But but yeah, and the more people coming to see
(21:17):
a show with your name on the marquee, the more
pressure you feel to be there.
Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, yeah, definitely, that's.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
A lot of pressure. But I learned, you learn to
pace yourself and you learn. What I like to say
is I have an A, B, and a C show.
So the A show is the one that has lots
of acrobatic vocals and what I want to sing if
I could all the time. The B and the C
are melodies that are maybe not as hard, but people
(21:45):
don't even notice itogize, and so it's a psychological thing
for me that I don't feel like I'm failing if
I don't get the A show. I just say I
have a cold to go out there and do a
really great B show today, and then I and then
the pressure's off and I end up having a great show.
So there's a lot of it's mental, you know, and just.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
That's a great technique. I love that. I don't think
I've ever heard anyone say that before, because I think
people think that you only have two choices. You're off. Yeah,
you're on or off, and that's actually not true. I
love the ABC grading for anything in life because I
don't think we're ever at our a game every single day.
It's not possible.
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Yeah, And how many times do you realize you think
you had the worst show, interview, whatever, and then someone
comes and they had no idea what you're talking all
that dialogue in your head, that's sabotaging.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah. I went to public speaking drama schools since I
was eleven years old, and so I've been in public
speaking is now the majority of my life, and so
there is I know exactly when I think I messed
the lineup or didn't quite get that message across right,
and I'll be over analyzing it. I used to do
a lot more earlier days, but then you realize no
one even noticed any percentage of that. But I love
(22:56):
your ABC grading.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Yeah, I wish I could do that with life.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
Yeah, well, I think it's a good tool for life.
I'm hoping that.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
Mom, I'm not going to get it all right, you
know today, and my son's gonna be angry with me.
But that's okay. But I'm really hard on myself about
that stuff. I'm hard on myself in general. I'd like
to so give myself a break.
Speaker 1 (23:19):
Yeah yeah, yeah, how did you How do you think
you were able to give yourself a break on stage?
Because that's obviously in one sense. I mean, I'm sure
and I'd love to hear this as from a mother's perspective,
but and I don't want to assume either way. But
I'm guessing you may say that actually being a mother
to one child is actually more pressure than performing in
front of thousands of people.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
And when I became a mother, I found perspective. Obviously,
I became less self absorbed. I realized that my son
has a fever tonight. I want to snuggle with him,
take care of him. I don't want to worry that.
I don't care if I get sick. Yeah, I got
a big show tomorrow. What happens if I get throat
(24:00):
or something, Well, it's too bad. I'm not going to
sleep in the other room. That's just not going to
be I just have to be with them. So then
I'd wake up the next day, didn't get a lot
of sleep worrying about my kid. I'm on stage. What
can I do? I'm doing the best I can. I'd
have the best shows, yeah, you know, because I just,
you know, lower the expectations of myself and for myself.
(24:22):
And that's really it changed my life in a lot
of ways. When you have something that you care about
way more.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
Yeah, so what do you think it's going to take?
I love what you said there, and I think everyone
can relate to that. I think anyone is listening right now.
If you're a mother, you definitely feel if you're not
a mother, you'll feel it like the idea of I
just need to be a bit easier on myself, Like
I think most people are very self critical, h most
people who even come across as confident or even arrogant
or often insecure and dealing with something internally.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So I'm not an expert and no, not an expert.
Speaker 1 (24:55):
I'm just intrigued as to how you think you get
to like what well.
Speaker 2 (24:58):
And I also I'm not a shamed to say my
public assisians probably don't say that, but I take you know, prozac,
and I have help, and I yeah, because there are
some days where I just I'm you know, people expect
me to let it go and I can't, you know.
So I'm doing the best that I can. But being
(25:20):
in the moment, being present, you know, it's just the
hardest thing to do. It's like what we aspire to
do as artists, actors, singers to you know. It's it's
so weird because the greatest moments I have when I'm
performing are usually moments I can't even remember because they
I transcend it in some way, you know, but trying.
(25:41):
But that's not being present then, you know, and that
you know, you can meditate, you can do all these things,
but it's trying to achieve just one moment where I
felt like I'm here in my body, understanding this without
judging myself, without criticized. And so I don't I don't
(26:02):
have the answers. I just I give myself things to
try to stay in the moment, you know, whether it's
very clinical, just think about the lyrics, think about breathing,
think about getting Walker to school tomorrow, or focusing on
the person in front of me and trying to change
them in the scene or the song. You know. But
sometimes it's just it's really hard. I can't get out
(26:25):
of there. In other days I can.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah, But I think that ABC grading is you've already
You've already come up with the perfect But it's what
you said. It's like, that's that is the way we
all need to think. How you started thinking about the stage,
you think about our life network. I think it's a
great it's a great method.
Speaker 2 (26:44):
And I also have an incredible husband who was an actor.
His life changed and he became he's a clinical director
of uh An impatient facility in California has two houses recovery,
alcohol and drug recovery and also mental illness and so
(27:09):
he thinks I'm just like a piece of cake all
the time, which is really nice to come home and
think He's like, what that mood is fine, that's nothing,
you know. So that's given me some perspective too. He
just thinks all my neuroses is like normal and he
can handle he can handle it. I'm not too much.
I'm not too much for him.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
That's beautiful. That's a really special Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, yeah, no,
I mean yeah, that's that's a beautiful thing to have
in your life. Yeah, And I think it's I think
that's true for pretty much. I often think with relationships
and with my wife, I I if I sat there,
I could easily reel off reasons why I think she's
(27:48):
annoying or frustrating or whatever. Maybe, like that's easy. I
think anyone could do that if they've been longer long
enough with someone. But if I stop to think about
the things that are special about her and unique about her,
and the thing that she does that no one else
could do, all of a sudden, it's like all those
other things seem so insignificant and irrelevant, And I think
it's so easy to amplify those small, irrelevant.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
And my life is too short. I'm gonna get he's
gonna I mean, he gets on my nerves so much
when we travel because I'm traveling all the time. I
know how to wear my I don't wear shoes with laces.
I get through the security, I know how to do it.
If something changes, I can go get another flight. I'm
moving and grooving. He walks too slow. He doesn't have
that aggressive traveling attitude. And I'm like, oh, and then
(28:33):
I realize, why am I you know, he's sweet? Why
is this getting on my nerves that life's too short? Yeah,
he's when it comes down to it, he's an incredible
father and my son, and he's there for me whenever
I need him, and he really sees me, sees my soul,
and so so those little things are so silly.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Yeah. Yeah, And I feel like we all pair up
with someone who's exactly the other way. Like I'm probably
more like you in that sense as you describe that,
just like you know, I'm like, I want to get
to the airport three hours early and figure everything out,
and like I don't like rushing. I don't like being late.
And my wife's like, you know, just like she's having
to run to the the what do you call it,
(29:15):
the terminal? Like run to the yeah, the gate, sorry,
the gate, Yeah, run to the gate. And I'm like,
I don't want to live like this, And she loves
the pressure and whatever it may be. So, but I
feel like we always pair up with people like that.
But with your dreams earlier you said that, she's like,
you know, dreams for the future. Like, what are the
dreams now, Like, how have your dream shifted? You changed,
or what's left? You said elusive? Some of the dreams
(29:36):
are still elusive. You said that's the word.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Well, now talking to you, they seem so trivial. Well, professionally,
there's things. I want to be a better performer, a
better artist. I want to work with people that I've
always looked up to. I want to work with some
more people like that that teach me stuff. I want
to create more original music. But my son is mixed.
(30:03):
He's uh, he identifies as black, and I see him
as a black thirteen year old boy, little man. That's
kind of where a lot of my focus is, I
think lately, is I don't want my whiteness to be
something that I know people say, you're the mom he's
going to love you, but he's super smart and intuitive,
and there's going to be things that I can't understand
(30:26):
for him because I'm not in his skin. And I
find myself preoccupied with that a lot, like how can
I be so close to him, be the one that
he can come to for everything? If I can't totally
understand all that because I just haven't lived it, How
can I educate myself? How can I be better in
that way? And as he's getting older, he's becoming more
(30:48):
and more aware of the society that he lives in
and the chaotic world he lives in, the violence, the racism,
and I just want to be someone he can come to,
you know. So I'm probably overthinking a lot of that,
but that's a lot where my energy goes to, just
how can I really be better in that way for him?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
Yeah? Yeah, I mean I think my parents felt that
way when I was a kid, for different reasons completely,
but I was mine was probably not as smart or
as intuitive as your son sounds, but I was highly
rebellious and I was getting involved in all the wrong
places and circles, and my parents didn't raise me that way,
and they, you know, they did only thing everything right
(31:31):
and they were loving.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
And why were you pushing back?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
I think I was. I think I've always been like
a thrill seeker, Like I've always deeply wanted a purpose.
I didn't know that word at that at thirteen, Like
I just thought thrill meant excitement, and almost like doing
well in school and getting good grades like didn't feel
like enough. I was like, that can't be the goal
of life, to do well at school, Like, that can't
be it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
You got to live.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
There has to be yeah, like what does it mean
to live? Right? What does it mean? And And I
feel like it's really interesting because that age at least,
and whenever I'm working with someone or whenever I hear
about that, I always feel like that's the age when
kids kind of like start going off in their own journeys,
in their own directions. And one thing that my dad
did that I think was a game changer because I
(32:16):
realized that at that point, no matter what my parents said,
I wasn't going to listen to it, no matter what
they said. And I think a lot of parent of
your job, Yeah, yeah, and yeah, exactly right. And I
think every child, everyone who's been a child, everyone has
that experience of yeah, I didn't listen to my parents
when I was thirteen, and then I think every parent
has that experience of my kids don't listen to me
from like thirteen to twenty one maybe, and then my
(32:38):
dad started giving me books of people's lives, of people
that he thought I'd be inspired by based on my ambitions,
my rebellion. But at that time it started to be
people like Malcolm Max and Martin Luther King, and then
later on I read Einstein, and then I was also
reading people like that that I was interested in as
a fifteen year old kid, like David Beckham and so
I was into soccer or doing the Johnson because he
(33:00):
was in WWE, and so I was reading Malcolm X
on one side and David Beckham on the other. But
it was really fascinating to me because it was almost
like those people could talk to me at that time
in a way that my parents never could, because they
had lived experiences or things that for some reason, you know,
connected with me and resonated with me in a way
(33:21):
that even if my parents said the same things, it
would never have connected. And I wonder, hence you writing
a children's book, which is where my direction's going. It's like,
I'm fascinated by who the voice is your son needs
to hear right now at this time in his life.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, I it's no.
Speaker 1 (33:37):
I don't think it ever is your parents, not because
our parents are wrong. Like there's that famous quote. I
don't know who said it, but it's the day you
realize your parents were right. Your kids are telling you
that you're wrong exactly, and you know, it's one of
those moments like now I'm so grateful to my parents
and I can see everything. I'm thirty five and I'm like, okay, yeah,
I value everything my parents did and they tried their best.
(33:59):
But in those times, I find like finding the voices
of other people that feel like your voice to you,
that he could hear it from someone else feels like,
you know, it feels like I'm wondering this children's book.
Was that a way of communicating to like, what was
the Yeah, what was the purpose behind it?
Speaker 2 (34:21):
I want him to hear that message. My son's pretty confident.
So I think the book comes from my interaction with
so many young people through all the projects that I've
been a part of, and these multi generational projects, you know,
of really seeing lots of young people inhibit themselves on
(34:42):
scorn their unique qualities, and I relate to that because
that's how I was. My son's pretty sure of himself.
So hopefully that's good. I mean, because I think we
all as parents project, you know, all the stuff that
I need to work on and myself. When you have
a kid that comes like glaring back at you, you know,
(35:03):
he's okay with the spotlight, you know. So I don't
know if this book is necessarily written for him to
help him, because he teaches me. I you know, I am,
he said, he said, Mom, when I get my braces
off and I and I go through puberty, this is
(35:25):
going to be no stocking. He means that with the
girls everything. So it's like I just need to take
a lesson from my son, you know. So I think
the book comes from I wrote it with my sister,
first of all, who I'm very close to, Kara, and
and she's a teacher, an elementary school teacher, a writer,
(35:48):
and also specialize in literacy at school. So I wanted
to write it with her because she's a pro, and
she understood me better than anyone else in the world
understands me. She's the closest person to me. She's younger,
but she's the wiser, she's the older soul. And it
was the two of us writing lists together because we
experienced it as sisters. I was always loud and singing
(36:11):
and taking up all this space, and she was always
am I supposed to know what I want to do
at the age of seven, you know, I don't know
what I want to do. And so we've been really
exploring all of those that's so old issues, I think.
So that's more for those kids that are just a
little bit hesitant to kind of allow people to see them,
(36:31):
you know, and allow themselves to be vulnerable and take
a risk.
Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, that's that's fascinating. Yeah. I have a younger sister
and we became we're still extremely close. She's like my
best friend. She knows everything about me, and I know
everything about her, and she's I almost treat it like
a little child. She's only five years younger than me.
To me, that's I remember holding her when I was
five years old and she was this tiny, little bay.
Speaker 2 (36:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
It's one of those, like, you know, very special memories
of kind of seeing her grow up and feeling old
even though I was old. But it's interesting, like I
think with siblings, it's it's fascinating to hear that that
difference also of being okay with one being loud and
one being silent, and noticing how neither of those strengths
(37:16):
or weaknesses. Although I think it's often imprinted that someone
is loud is more confident and.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
Is more right, and that's totally a contradiction, at least
in me. I mean, if you saw me at home,
I'm actually kind of quiet, and people that meet me,
they say, oh, you're actually really soft spoken, and so
the big the girl with the big voice and singing
to the rafters is definitely part of me. But I
think we all have these different sides. And then my sister,
(37:45):
who is very soft spoken. She's the one that when
I went to watch her teach, she was a TA
back in Boulder at See You, and she didn't know
what she wanted to do. And I was like some
neuroscience classes and she was a TA and I sat
in the back and watched her and she was unbelievable,
so charismatic, so on her voice, so engaging. The students
(38:07):
loved her, and I said, this is your thing, Like
you got to teach, you know, so our voice emerges
in many different ways, and I think it's a little
bit a misconception that someone like me, who knows how
to produce loud sounds and hit the back row, is
necessarily comfortable in her own voice in my own life,
(38:30):
because especially given that mantle to always sing, let it
go to kids or defy gravity, it's like, oh, you know,
I'm not always that example. I mean, I have those
days where I can't get out of bed myself and
I have to find my voice as well. And it's
(38:51):
so I hate for people to think that there's this
perception of me that I'm fearless because I'm not.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
Yeah, of course, And it sounds like this book is
also of finding your voice, because yeah, you're playing so
many other voices.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Yes, well yeah, I mean it's it's autobiographical and a
too Little Mouse, too little mice away, But I love
that you chose a mouse to really yeah, because the
mouse feels is so small. But when she sings, she's
the joy and the sound of her voice. When she
(39:26):
decides to share it with the class instead of just
keeping it to herself at home, she ends up becoming
a huge, huge, huge mouth and now everybody can see
her and hear her, and that invites a lot of scrutiny,
a lot of accolades, but a lot of different things,
you know, And that's I think that's what happens with
(39:47):
all of us when we allow ourselves to be seen.
Speaker 1 (39:50):
I'm always finding I'm always intrigued by people who play
lots of voices. And as you said, like, I think
everyone's always searching for their voice in life because they
forget that their early voice was so informed by their parents,
and then their later voice was so informed by friends,
and then our voice is just always a mix of
other people's noise. And then I wonder for you, do
(40:13):
you ever feel like you've rubbed off on the voices
of your characters? Your characters' voices rub off on you,
Like I'm always fascinated by people who play people for
a living, Like how that.
Speaker 2 (40:25):
That's what I was saying before checking the egg. How
much am I bringing to something that then the writers
are inspired by what I'm bringing? And how much is
the part sort of finding me?
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Which characters do you think? Which characters do you think
rubbed off the most on you? In a.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Each one was like a gift at the time, you know,
like the Rent stuff was really it was a celebration
that character was unafraid, sexy, money, just an excuse for
me to really be all those things. And then when
(41:06):
Wicked came along, I was definitely more insecure and needing
to sort of allow myself to not be afraid of
my own anger and my larger than life qualities, you know,
So that one was really art imitating life. You know,
so different things.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
I don't know, that's a beautiful Yeah, No, there's there's wonderful.
It's just so's it's just so much. Yeah, it's so
much more when you're playing someone deeply, it's so much
more deeper than just a character right.
Speaker 2 (41:40):
Now, and then you live with that how many shows
a year?
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yeah, that's well, that's even more than a movie, right,
Like even more than a TV show a movie. It's
like this character is.
Speaker 2 (41:50):
Yeah, and I've had two instances now with Rent the movie.
We did it ten years after we left. I left
the show and then had this sequel to Enchanted, Disenchanted
coming out now, and that's fifteen years later. And it's
kind of fun to revisit a character years later because
(42:11):
it's just you see how like life is informed you're
who you are and how you approach the character. Now
it's really I find it really fascinating to go back
and see that if I threw caution to the wind
a lot. I didn't have as much process when I
was younger, just kind of like was raw and in
the moment and spontaneous and in the moment. But the
(42:35):
older I've been getting, the less in the moment I
am because the more you're aware of how far you
can fall, you know, and you get in your head.
Speaker 1 (42:42):
So I don't know, Yeah, what's something that you feel
you used to value that you don't value anymore, Something
that was important to you that's become less and less important.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Hmm. I was going to say being liked, but having
people care about what people think, But I think I
still care about what people think.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, when I was asked, I was asked this question,
and that's where I started to involve in my interviews.
And it was probably one of the only questions that
made me stop and think, like you had to, you know,
most questions you're just talking. And then my answer to
it in the moment, without thinking about it, in like
seven seconds of thinking about it was being understood. I
(43:27):
think I realized that ninety nine percent of the world
would never be able to understand anyone fully. I don't
think it's actually possible. And I think the pressure we
put on ourselves to try to understand someone fully rushes
the process of understanding them half And so like that
feeling of oh, I understand you, Like even we just
(43:49):
want to be able to say that, and we want
to be able to say that so quickly.
Speaker 2 (43:52):
I'm saying about my son, Yeah, I will never yeah,
be able to be all those things to him exactly. Yeah,
live in a white woman's body and my background and
where I've come from, and just because he came from
my womb, I think the carte blanche to understand his emotion,
you know. So that's very frustrating, Yeah, and I need
(44:16):
to just accept that.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, and accepting it just Yeah. I think for me,
it was like I realized that even if someone does
understand you, they won't understand you in the way you
want them to understand you, right, even in wanting to
be understood, like you're talking about trying to understand someone else,
but even I think all of us crave to be understood.
When we say.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Something we're really seeing, like someone really gets me exactly.
Speaker 1 (44:38):
And I found even the people that really get you
don't really they don't they get me.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
They do.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
My closest friends really get me. But even then, there's
a part of you that only you get and no
one will ever know. And that's and being at peace
with that has been very good for me. If you
could create one law that everyone in the world had
to follow, what would it be.
Speaker 2 (45:00):
It would just be to mind your own business, stop
worrying about what other people are doing, and live your
own life.
Speaker 1 (45:07):
That's a great one. I love that it didn't Mazelle. Everyone,
if you have been listening or watching, thank you so
much for tuning in. Make sure you share what you learned,
what you took away, any reflections, any questions that you've
had tig us both on Instagram, on TikTok, on Twitter,
all the platforms that you know that we're on right now.
And of course, the book loud Mouse is available. We're
(45:29):
going to put the link in the show notes so
you can order it as well. You can read along.
I know I'm going to be ordering a ton of
copies for my nieces and nephews.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
Yeah, and there's a refrain in it, so there's a
song I wrote that I love that that goes along
with that, and you don't have to sing it.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
Like I definitely will not sing it.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Just start.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I never don't see it, but I'll be ordering them,
ordering the book for my nieces and nephews to share
it with them as well. I know that it's probably
one of my favorite things to do is to sit
down and read it to your child. And I don't
have two kids on my own yet, but when I
do it with nieces and nephews or you know, my godsaid,
it's like one of the most fun, fun bonding experiences.
(46:10):
I look forward to that. Yeah, thank you, thank you.
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my conversation with
Megan Trainer on breaking generational trauma and how to be
confident from the inside out.
Speaker 2 (46:23):
My therapist told me stand in the mirror naked for
five minutes. It was already tough for me to love
my body. But after the C section scarf with all
the stretch marks, now I'm looking at myself like I've
been hacked. But day three, when I did it, I
was like, you know what her thighs are cute,
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Jay Shetty
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