Jahnavi: How to Create Inner Calm When Life Feels Overwhelming (THIS Simple Daily Practice When Your Mind Won't Stop!)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
There's so many different ways that people pray. For some
people it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized
way of placing their body in a certain position or
doing certain actions. I think all of those things are
designed to bring us into a certain state of mind
and of being that allows can allow you to express

(00:23):
some of these deepest sentiments that are otherwise quite hard
to access.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you
come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's
guest is one of my dearest friends of the last
twenty years. But she's also one of the most talented musicians.
She uses music not just to entertain, but to heal.
Joanavi is a devotional singer, writer, and artist whose voice

(00:50):
has become a refuge for people searching for peace and
spiritual grounding. Through her performances, recordings, and global workshops, Joanavi
has devoted her life life to helping people experience the
power of mantra, meditation and sacred sound. Her work invites
us to pause, breathe, and reconnect with our inner life,

(01:12):
and she's also been nominated for her very first Grammy.
If you're part of the Academy. This is my personal request,
go and vote for her. I'm so excited to welcome
to Omburburse my dear friend, Janavi Harrison Janevie. Is so
wonderful to have you here.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
I just got a massive confidence boost you.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
I mean, I just want to let people know. So
I've known you now for like twenty years, and i
met you through our temple and Spiritual community in London,
which is where we first met, and we would have
both been at college or something like that. And I
am so fortunate and so excited about this because sometimes
I post these pictures of me on the on social

(01:54):
media which are like how it started, how it's going,
and all of those how it started, so many of
them were with you. So me and Janavie for everyone
who doesn't know, what we would do is we would
do events together where I would speak and Janavie would
lead Montreal meditation and we would like that was like
our duo tag team, yeah exactly, and we travel all

(02:15):
over England. We did events in London, we did events
in Weymouth, we did events Cambridge, Cambridge, we did events
in maybe Oxford. We would do events and we've done
this for years together and that's always what we did.
It was always our due. And then since I moved
to La Jehanevie comes to my house every single year
and we do an event where rather you will organize

(02:36):
this beautiful gathering of all of our friends and Ghanavie
will lead a meditation and people are always so moved
and just it's pretty amazing, Like thinking about being friends
for twenty years and seeing our relationship has always been
service based of wanting to give spiritual experiences to others.
But at the same time, you lived with us during
the pandemic. I do for a few months, I think. Yeah,

(03:01):
So I'm really excited because rarely do I get to
sit with someone that I've known for twenty years on
the show. Yeah, and I'm so excited you've been nominated
for a Grammy. It's like thank you when you mentor
historical occasion for you know, our whole tradition. Yeah, and
to really see that just how far you've taken spiritual

(03:22):
montra music to help people, and it's such a How
does it feel, I mean.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
It's it's a huge honor and like you said, it's
it feels like an honor, not you know, it's it's
part of our training. And I think that the spiritual
tradition that I've grown up in that you know, you
get an honor and it might have your name attached
to it, but you think about how many people have
brought you to that moment, how many hands and hearts

(03:49):
and minds have all collaborated to you know, whether it's
creating something or whatever it is. It's such a collective endeavor.
So I feel honored personally, but feel honored on behalf
of everybody. And yeah, it's incredible.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
It's amazing. I mean, you've you know what, It's really
interesting because obviously I've seen you grow and you know,
you tour the world, you do retreats. You know, you
made an album with our dear friend Willow, who came
on the podcast with last time. It's been amazing to watch.
But I almost this is really exciting for me because
even when you know someone, when I get to sit

(04:25):
in the interview with them, I'm always thinking I'm actually
going to get to know them in a way that
I don't before. Yeah, So I want to go back
to your childhood. Yeah, and I want to ask you
what is a childhood memory that you have that you
feel defines who you are today or embodies who you
are today.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Wow. Well, I know with these kind of things you
should you're supposed to say the very first thing that
comes into your head, and I'm seeing myself in a
field near my house. You know, I grew up outside
of London, but it's not that far from the city,
but it's an area that there's a lot of protected

(05:02):
farmland and stuff, so there's a lot of fields and
forests and it really feels quite rural. And these fields
were close to my house, so I used to love
walking cycling there and just being in nature. And yeah,
they would rotate the crops and the things that were

(05:23):
grown in the field, and certain years there would be
these incredible yellow flowers. Rape seed flowers are sometimes called
mustard flowers, and you could just kind of walk amongst
them and be completely engulfed by these yellow flowers, yellow
as far as I could see. So I don't know
why that came to my head, but yeah, I guess

(05:44):
that's something that's defined who I am. Connection to nature
and just yeah, finding a lot of inspiration in that.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
Do you still spend a lot of time in nature?

Speaker 1 (05:55):
I try to, Yeah, Yeah, I do.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
In Where is it where you are when you go
back home, because I know you don't live in London. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah, I mean for the last you know, almost three years,
we've been living in the Bay Area, so that's famous
around the world for the incredible nature. So now we've
got the redwood trees and you know, the incredible California coast.
So yeah, we tried to be out in that environment
as much as possible. But I love to, like, you know,

(06:23):
I consider myself a bit of a tree nerd, So
wherever I go in the world, I'm always trying to
learn about what trees are around. And yeah, it's just
something that inspires me a lot.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
Yeah. I mean, I obviously know your parents. Your dad
actually was our wedding priest for me and yeah, yeah,
and so he actually did our wedding ceremony. And I've
known your parents for two years now as well, and
they've always been just so wonderful and you know, they're
so loved by our community. Yeah, and everyone has such
an affinity for them. Like what what do you think

(06:55):
each of them gave you growing up that you carry
with yourself today, Like what quality or a value or
a belief or even mindset that you think has really
stayed with you for all these years.

Speaker 1 (07:07):
They're both truth seekers. That's something that I think brought
them together. I mean they both joined the spiritual community
for I think around a decade before they got married.
So they came from their respective religious traditions that they
were brought up with and even countries. You know, my
mum's from Canada, and both of them went on a

(07:29):
personal odyssey of a sort, you know, searching for truth
and meaning purpose in life. So I think that courage
to depart from the script that's being given, which I
know a lot of people had in the you know,
the sixties seventies, a lot of young people felt emboldened
to take some unconventional steps. But not only did they

(07:52):
sort of try that on, but they've committed to that
life and to deepening I think with every year. And
to have parents that are, yeah, they're so committed to
a life of service and devotion and community. I think

(08:13):
both of them in their own way, my mom's the one.
I mean, actually, both of them are very people people.
You know, they know a lot of people, they remember
people's names, but they really care about people as well.
I think in our community. If they walk from point
A to point B, you know, like a five minute walk,

(08:34):
they'll be stopping constantly with every person and care about
what's going on in their life at the moment. So
I think that's something that's made a deep impression on me.
It's hard to follow in their footsteps, you know, in
my life, and I guess in the life of all
of us who have grown up with the Internet and

(08:56):
social media, we have the ability to be connected to
so many more peopleeople than ever before, and it's difficult
to bring that same quality of presence and attention and
care to all of our interactions. But it's a kind
of a gold standard that I have in my mind. Yeah,
so much. It's hard to measure all the things you

(09:18):
received from your pigeons.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Did you always know that you wanted to create music?
Did you always know that?

Speaker 1 (09:26):
I didn't know that I wanted to create music in
a formal way, but I was always I think I
was always doing it without consciously realizing that was a thing.
Like I just when I was home recently, my mom
had some cassette tapes from that I used to record myself,
you know, like probably seven, eight, nine years old and

(09:51):
I had one of those keyboards, Cassio keyboard, and I
would just put on a drum beat and I would
just play. I didn't know how to play board, but
I had total lack of, you know, inhibition. I just
record myself spontaneously and I would sing a bit, tell
a story, make up the story as I went along,

(10:11):
and they were just meant for my sister to hear,
like bedtime stories and stuff like that. But when I
listened back, I was like, oh, I guess I was
kind of making up songs and things like that. But yeah, it.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Wasn't you any good now when you listen back, Like, no,
it was embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
I was really embarrassing.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
We need to hear them. I need to hear this.

Speaker 1 (10:29):
I think I'm gonna I'm going to digitize them just
so I can listen back and be like, wow, I've
come a long way. But I mean, I love to sing,
you know. I grew up surrounded by music. My dad
and mom both love singing. My dad was really well
known for his voice, and yeah, we we sung as

(10:49):
a family together. So I think it was just always
around me. But I'm you know, quite introverted by nature,
so I was never like I want to be a singer.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Yeah, what do you what do you think what's the
difference for someone who doesn't know, Yeah, what's the difference
between devotional mantra music yeah, and popular music or music
in general? Like, how would you differentiate them?

Speaker 1 (11:12):
I think there's a few key differences. One is one
is the most obvious, which is which is the lyrics
with with mantra music. Specifically, a mantra is you know,
a sacred word or phrase, often containing names that refer
to to the supreme being, and it's repeated, so you know,

(11:34):
people's first reaction is like often what oh, why is that?
Why are you saying the same thing over and over again?
But the idea is that it's a type of purifying
Like I always think of a washing machine. You know,
if you had clothes that were really dirty, you put
them in the washing machine a few times or something
like that. So it's it's sound vibration that is intended

(11:57):
to clarify pure orfy the heart and mind. But I
think the other key difference is the intention of the music.
So the intention, as often prayer, is to connect, like
you were saying at the beginning, to that sacred space
within whereas I think, you know, music can have all
kinds of intentions. There can be the intention of the

(12:18):
artists just to express something, just to connect with the listener,
or just to entertain. I don't mean just in a
you know, to minimize what that is. But yeah, the
quality of it is different. You can you can encounter that,
you can feel it.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, no, it's I remember when I first got exposed
to it, it was addictive and intoxicating in a way
that was something I hadn't experienced before. I remember my
friends and I would love going out to parties and
clubs and things like that. And then when I heard
devotional music for the first time, I was I was like, wait,
why do I like this? You know? But it felt

(12:56):
familiar and it felt it felt like it, I don't know,
connected with a part of me that had been buried
for some time or or not, you know, not awakened.
And yeah, it has a really special quality. And now
obviously years later, it's it's one of my favorite things
to experience, especially when when you were charing.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
But did you feel that straight away? Do you remember
if you did it take a while to appreciate it
or immediately.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Film on one of the first retreats I went on,
Like I felt it immediately. It was there was a
part of it that was just fun because there's so
much you know, there's dancing, there's like it's yeah, it's
such a celebration.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, it's not always just sitting meditation exactly.

Speaker 2 (13:36):
It's so festive. Yeah, so I think there's a part
of that. But there were there were certain people and yeah,
i'll tell you later who specifically, but like, yeah, there
were just they were just specific. There were definitely experiences
I had very early on that made me very convinced
that the practice made sense. And yeah, beautiful and and special.

(13:57):
But but yeah, how so if you were so you
were always artistics and you're always playing around, Yeah, talk
to me about the discovery because so much of our
community and our audience is always in the pursuit of
their passion. And obviously you're doing something you love, you're
doing something that's more niche. You're also doing extremely successfully.
This is what you do, it's what you offer to

(14:17):
the world. And I think often we live in a
world today where we think, oh, if I'm not doing
something that's really mainstream, and if I'm not doing something
that has millions of followers and has then I can't
do it, and then it can't be successful if it
can't take care of me and my family. And I
think there are people like yourself and others I know
that have found something you love that serves other people,

(14:37):
makes them happy, is able to get nominated for a Grammy.
Talk to me about the discovery, the early discovery of
this passion or maybe it's not, maybe it was always
a passion, but the discovery of mastery of it. What
did you study at college? What did you think you actually,
let's go backwards. What did you think you were going

(14:57):
to be when you were like eleven years old? Because
we all get asked that question? What did you What
did you write? I'm intrigued?

Speaker 1 (15:03):
What did I remember? So? I went to school at
the Temple in the Temple community till I was about
ten years old, and then I went to you know,
a bigger regular.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
School and what was that transition?

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Like? That was hard? It was really hard.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
Talked to me about the different So I didn't go
to a school like that. I only ever went to
public schools and grammar schools in England, and I ever
went to school. So talk to me about what that means,
and then the transition from.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, so the school at the temple. So the place
where I went to school is called buckdivid unto Manor,
and you know, it's in many ways an idyllic environment.
There's you know, it's kind of eighty acres of beautiful
country land. There's cows there, there's a beautiful lake. It

(15:55):
was a very special environment to grow up in. The
school was very small, so we had very individu dual
attention from the teachers. There was a lot of singing, drama, art,
you know, in addition to the usual things we studied.
And also we we would lead the chanting in the

(16:16):
temple once a week as a whole school.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
So we were doing learning the National curriculum.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yes, we were doing the National curriculum, so we're doing
all the regular subjects, but we would also have time
where we would study texts like the Bagavat Gita. We
would learn you know, versus and things even from four
or five years old. So it's a very unique way
to grow up. Like for me, it was all I knew,
but we used to have There would be schools that

(16:43):
would visit the temple as part of their religious education.
You know, I think some people might not know. In
the UK religious education it's compulsory in school, so you
go out to places of worship and see how, you know,
how other people live. So we would have these kids
looking through the window, like pressing their nose against the window,
looking at us. So we'd be like, we're not we're
not zoo animals. But they were curious and and we

(17:07):
also didn't know what their school experience was like. But yeah,
for me, it was normal, And I didn't realize when
I went out to you know, a more kind of
conventional school that most kids don't learn, you know, songs
in ancient Sanskrit when they're young and talk about death

(17:28):
and reincarnation from a young age and the soul and
things like that. You know, it kind of makes you
a bit weird to other kids. And I also didn't
have that much exposure to tipop culture, you know, So.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
You only realized that when I transitioned. Yeah, yeah, you
didn't know that until then.

Speaker 1 (17:47):
I didn't know that there was a bit of a
rude awakening anyway, tell me about it, Like, yeah, I
mean I was I was confident in my world, but
coming out of my world I felt extremely vulnerable. And
you know, sometimes people say, oh, when did you give
yourself the name Jenevie. I'm like, no, I was given

(18:07):
the same when I was born, you know, and I
chose to keep that as my name when I went
to regular school. So then anyone who has an unusual
name knows the embarrassment of, like the teacher pausing when
they get to your name, and the kids all laugh
or whatever. Those things kind of things are. Even being
vegetarian at that time was quite unusual. I think it's

(18:29):
much more common now. I just wanted to disappear. I
didn't want to be comment worthy in any way. And yeah,
that was really hard because I was trying to erase.
I was trying to erase myself in a way so
that no one would have anything to say or make
fun of.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
Because you were coming with a different name, a different culture.

Speaker 1 (18:53):
Different name. Yeah, why do you have white skin? But
you say you're Hindu? Your name is weird, We just
call you something else. Why do you eat that? You
know it's They're pretty innocuous questions in one sense, but
kids can everyone knows kids can be really mean as well.
I didn't even grow up, you know, with that, Like,

(19:14):
I didn't grow up around that many kids, so suddenly
being in a class of thirty kids, it can be
quite a sensory overload also if you're sensitive, and it's
just I think it's about also having the confidence as
a young person to speak about why did you grow
up in this way? What are the things that you
believe in? You know, sometimes you don't kind of have

(19:35):
that experience till you're a bit older. And yeah, I
just didn't have the words to describe it, so I'd
rather become silent. So that was really difficult. I felt
like I'd been kicked out of the nest, you know,
the baby bird kicked out of the nest, and I
couldn't get back to the nest. Because you change through

(19:56):
those difficult experiences, you're no longer. I remember I did
wear a school uniform at the Temple school, but it
was a different kind of school uniform when I went
to the other schools. And I remember my parents were saying, oh,
why don't you come. You know that there's a worship
service at the temple every morning, and they were saying,

(20:17):
why don't we go before school? You can go in
the temple, And I was like, well, I'll have to
wear my uniform and they were like, that's okay. You
can just come in your uniform and come for you know,
ten minutes, then we'll go to school. And I was like,
I can't, And I said why can't you? And I
was trying to describe it, but I was trying to
say that when I put that uniform on, I have

(20:38):
to become someone else. Can't. It's almost like I felt
like I would implode or something if I tried to
be that person at the temple. It was just like
two different masks I had to wear, or characters roles
that I was playing. So learning how to integrate and
just be yourself in all environments that was a real journey.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
Going back into the world of work was a culture shop, yeah,
and it was very, very different. It was almost easier
to go into the monastery than it was to get out,
because getting out felt like, wait a minute, I've been
practicing all these things for three years. Yeah, now I
have to go to a wine and pizza tasting networking
event and I don't drink, and there's certain things that

(21:21):
don't eat anymore and things like that, and just having
to adjust and so it's embarrassing. It it's hard. And
I did that as an adult, so to me, it
was hard, but it was so much easier. It was
somewhat easier. Yeah, but to do that as a teenager, it's, like,
you know, is super hard? Did it? What actually helped
to integrate? How did you integrate these two seemingly opposite

(21:45):
lives that seemed to contradict themselves. What did you do
to integrate? What did that look like?

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah? I think in my school the school school years,
like you know, till eighteen or so, I just really struggled.
It kind of felt like a dark tunnel those years,
because not not that every day was dark, but it
just I just didn't feel like I could find that
confidence and that self assurance to feel yeah, grounded in

(22:14):
who I am. And I kind of went back and
forth in and out of you know, I'd go to
a regular school for a year, and then I would actually,
I mean several times I kind of made myself sick
actually with anxiety. I started developing stomach issues and I

(22:36):
get headaches every single day. I wouldn't eat at school.
I wouldn't, you know, I'd just save my lunch and
eat it on the bus on the way home, just
like all these behaviors that were not I don't know
why I was doing those things. So then I'd tell
my parents, Okay, I want to do like homeschooling for

(22:56):
a while, and I'd do that. But then you know,
I could tell myself that I have It's not like
I'm like super academic, but I need to be stretched
a bit. Like when you're in that comfort zone of home,
or you're just with friends or your parents telling you
to do things you don't, you don't always push yourself.
So I would kind of yearn for that environment again

(23:17):
and go back into it and then feel like, oh,
I don't think I can do this. And I think
things really change when I started to feel like I
could take agency for myself and start to take have
a bit more confidence in choosing the direction of my education,

(23:37):
which I think maybe for many people comes around university
and you're kind of starting to hone in on you
know what you want to do. But I was going
to say, you were saying, you know, when you were eleven,
what did you want to do with your life? And
I remember sitting on the school bus and writing. I
remember like three long lists on the page, and they
were just all these different artistic things, and I would

(24:00):
keep going back to the list, and every time I
would learn something more about each of those creative careers,
I might cross one off and it was like florist
and special effects makeup artists. And my dad would sometimes
take me to like, do you know work shadowing with
different people, just to just to try and see what
it was all about. But yeah, I had no idea

(24:23):
where my journey.

Speaker 2 (24:24):
Would Did you have a narrow down to one or no?

Speaker 1 (24:26):
No, I never know.

Speaker 2 (24:28):
That's so funny.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
I'm still working on that.

Speaker 2 (24:31):
Was it hard to go from secondary school or high
school to college, like to university? Was that hard that transition?
Or was university not that hard?

Speaker 1 (24:39):
That was easier? That was easier because by that time,
I think I'd developed some confidence. I did my A
levels very unconventionally through evening classes, which I was with
older people that I found easier to be around, because
I don't know, I just think I'd also grown up
around a lot of older people, and I found I
did really well doing studying int dependently a lot, and

(25:01):
so I think that gave me a lot of confidence,
like choosing how I was going to study. You know,
then I finished the A levels in a year instead
of two years. It's like a different way of approaching it.
And then I started to feel like, okay, you know,
I just yeah, felt different in myself. I mean, you
grow up, so I think university college also people are

(25:23):
a lot more open minded. I found. You start realizing
that it can be cool to be different rather than
just something to be made fun of.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
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(26:31):
wisdom from the spiritual traditional community that you carried through
with you that helped you through those tough times or
do you feel it was You're trying to keep it
out so much that it didn't really even have a chance.
Like I really felt that when I went back into
the world of work, the thing that I held on
to the most that really changed my life. I genuinely

(26:52):
mean it was the diverse that says, when you protect
your purpose, your purpose protects you. And I'm translating dharma's
purpose in that regard that originally is when you protect
your dharma, your dharma protects you.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
And when I heard that verse, that was just profound
to me, and I started to want to protect what
I believed my dharma was rather than neglect it and
reject it to move toward what the world was trying
to get me to focus on. Yeah, And that acted
as a real compass for me when I was feeling unsure.

(27:26):
Was there anything for you I'm just intrigued or was
it so like you were like this is so alien,
I have to keep it separate that you were just
trying to avoid it.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
That's such a great question. I don't think I've thought
about it in that way before. I don't remember actually
taking strength from the spiritual tradition like independently. I think
my parents would try to help me with that, and
I know for sure, I think on an emotional level,
my mum was trying to care for me in every

(27:54):
way possible. I mean, I really gave my parents a
hard time. I'm also the eldest, so I was the
first of the children to go out to school, and
what do.

Speaker 2 (28:01):
You mean to give them a hard time?

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I would cry every day I beg not to go
to school. I think they were just you know, parents
are just trying to do the best for you. They
wanted me to have opportunity, They wanted me to grow intellectually,
to you know, to do well in studies and everything.
And I think they were really confused about, like, how

(28:23):
can we make her be happy and just embrace this
with confidence and not just be kind of yeah, stressed
and anxious all the time. So yeah, I feel really
sorry for what, you know, putting them through that. But
they were definitely really trying to help. Also from a
spiritual perspective always, and you know, in simple and digestible ways.

(28:45):
But I think, yeah, it was it was difficult for
me to really integrate that at the time.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Did you so many kids who grew up in religious
and spiritual communities end up leaving did you ever consider.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
It, not at the time, not at the time, And
people would always ask me that, and I would It
was like a very common question, especially from people outside
of the tradition. They'd always be like, so, did you
ever want to just rebel and just sleep? And I
would always very confidently say no, No, I never really
had that inclination. One of the reasons I think with
that is that my parents have been always very broad minded,

(29:21):
very open to talking about anything, and I would have
a lot of conversations, especially with my dad, about any
you know, any theological questions, philosophical things, doubts that would
come to my mind. We would always talk about it.
And he's very well read, very extensively in many different traditions,
so he'll always have some great insight to offer. So

(29:43):
I didn't feel that pull. But I think what I
didn't know was that, you know, doubt and crisis of
faith or looking at your tradition from a different lens,
it doesn't necessarily always happen in those normative teen times.
Sometimes it can come later on, or sometimes comes multiple

(30:04):
times through your life. So it's not that I ever
felt the strong urge to leave, but I definitely went
through some difficult times at a later phase, I think
when I really started to Yeah, it's almost like with
every step further out into the wider world, it kind
of demands of me to go deeper in what I

(30:28):
practice and believe because it's being kind of butted up
against just these intense currents of everything that's going on
in the world.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yeah. I often think about that because you know, and
Radi and I talk about like thinking about having children
or whatever it is, and like how we want to
raise them where they have good spiritual values, but at
the same time they have choice. Yeah, and it's always
hard because you're kind of like I always think. I
always believe that people who choose what they follow, and

(30:58):
someone who's grown up in a tradition also gets that
opportunity as they get older to keep choosing. And I
also feel like when you choose what you follow, it
you're more confident about it, it generally has more power
generally speaking. But when you're raised in something, you have
to choose as you get older, because you choose whether
this value is still yours. And the interesting thing about

(31:20):
that is that also just applies to anyone who grew
up in the normal system because you grow up with
certain beliefs your parents have, and at one point you
pause and you go, wait, do I even believe exactly? So,
your parents might have believed that you shouldn't work that hard,
or you should marry a man who works hard, or
your parents may have had the belief that you should

(31:42):
always do what you love, or you should never do
what you love. You should do what is safe and
is reliable. And I think we all go through our
twenties and thirties and have reflection points where we say, well, yeah,
my parents believe that, but I didn't. And so it
applies to all of life, but obviously, very specifically a
lines to someone who's grown up in a specific tradition,

(32:03):
in a specific path. When did music go from being passion, exploration,
curiosity to mastery? Because I think this is such an
important part. I think I hear a lot of people
who say, follow your passion, and I think that's okay,
you know, but if you're going to turn it into
something you do professionally, the passion at one point has

(32:25):
to turn in to proficiency and mastery. When did you
start to actually master your art and craft? What did
that look like?

Speaker 1 (32:36):
I don't identify with the word master in any way.
And I don't mean that in a falsely humble way.
I just yeah, I feel like I'm very much scratching
the surface. But I think that I think that it
happened very organically. I started to, you know, when I
was eighteen, I started to develop more of an independent

(32:58):
interest in art in my own tradition and really engage
with the muntor meditation practice kirtan. And also, you know,
I'd been studying the violin since I was about ten
years old, and that was always something I did basically
in my bedroom and in my room with the teacher.

(33:19):
I never really used my instrument in a public placed.
I did one time one day in an orchestra and
I got bullied and then I was like, I'm not
going back. So it was very like I got to
a point and I was like, why am I even
learning this instrument. So it was only when I started

(33:39):
playing it at the temple in the kirtan and trying
to improvise, I realized that, you know, aside from just
participating in this activity musically, there's something I can offer,
something I can develop and refine. And initially that was
my connection through the violin. That was my voice, you know,
I was too shy to sing. But I think everything

(34:02):
actually stemmed from there because through the violin, I ended
up joining a montra music group that was forming at
the time, right as I was finishing my undergraduate degree
and I did not know what was I was going
to do next. You know, I studied English and creative
writing linguistics. It was like very interesting to me, but

(34:26):
I had no idea what to do with it. And
this opportunity came like a month before my graduation to
tour all over America and all around the world. It
ended up being so I was just it was a
no brainer. I was like, yeah, I want to do that,
and I thought that it would just be I still

(34:46):
felt like, well, I'll have to get a regular job.
I didn't know what that was. I actually then I
did get a job as a magazine editor.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
But I.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
Got the job and then write when I was meant
to go back and take it, I was doing this
touring beforehand, and then I just wrote to them. I said,
I'm sorry, I can't. I think I need to keep
doing what I'm doing. It was, yeah, speaking to my soul.
I guess so it's been very organic. I think I
have struggled with a lot of doubt along the way,

(35:17):
because anyone who does anything creative or artistic knows there's
no assurance of any kind of ability to maintain yourself
have a livelihood with that activity. And so it's a
real act of I think faith and courage to sort

(35:38):
of just keep going with it a year upon year.
And so I was many times constantly questioning myself, Okay,
so is now the point when I should get a
quote unquote regular job or something that's more predictable and stable.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Do you think you experience divinity when you sing and
make music in a way that you don't access through
any other practice.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
I would say, yes, yeah, I do. I think it's
an incredibly deep idea that you can access divinity through sound,
sound being so subtle, not requiring any instrument, any tool,

(36:26):
just your own voice, and it just requires presence and
it's very esoteric, but I feel like anyone can experience
it also, like we have ears to hear, you know,
a voice to use. And yeah, I remember first starting

(36:47):
to become aware of that around I mean, I had
many incredible moments when I was a child, you know,
sometimes people ask me what some of my earliest memories
of kirtane, And there's so many incredible times, Like there
was a festival that would happen every year. We would
walk in procession through London to this huge park, Battersea Park,

(37:08):
and there would be a festival, many tents there till
late at night and the kirtan would be going all
afternoon into the evening. And I just remember feeling so joyful,
so exhausted, but like so filled by that experience. I
think I started to really notice that, Wow, there's something

(37:29):
really special here around sixteen seventeen eighteen and feel like
I want to come back to this. You know how
you feel when you I guess there's so many things
you could liken that too, but you just, yeah, you
want to keep doing it.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
What have you found when people are because I think
singing out loud can feel so nervous for people because
it's this call and response where you're chanting and people
are responding back, especially when you're live. Yeah, what have
you seen like the transformation people have had where they
start off because you do retreats, et cetera, where they
start really nervous and anxious and then what have you
seen that turn into Even for people who think like

(38:07):
I can't sing to say my life, or you don't
like the sound of your voice or whatever it may
be my singing voice. I'm very confident speaking.

Speaker 1 (38:14):
But I've heard you saying I think, yeah, it's terrible.
Now I think you can say now I know you're
lying for sure.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Now I have proved that last night right now we
were talking about that thing. You were lying. But what yeah,
what is that for you?

Speaker 1 (38:28):
Like?

Speaker 2 (38:29):
What have you seen? I'm intrigued for people, anyone who's
listening right now. Anyone who's listening right now, I hope
you're going to go to Spotify or you know, Apple
and type in Johannavie Harrison and you know, I'm looking.
You've got like one hundred and thirty four thousand monthly
listeners right now. And if someone was listening to this
music or they were going to come and see you live,

(38:50):
and you'd say, hey, everyone sing along with me, which
is very common at these events if someone's nervous in
the beginning or doesn't quite get it. How have you
seen people transform over time through retreats and events.

Speaker 1 (39:01):
Yeah, I think it's really normal to feel nervous. I
think many people, or even I would say most people
have some level of insecurity about singing out loud. I
think the beautiful thing about it is that you're singing
with other people, so you're not even there's no demand
that you even sing really loud. You know, you can

(39:22):
sing very quietly. But feeling that togetherness, I mean we
experience we all can experience that if we go to
a concert or I don't know, a football match, everyone's
singing the same thing together. It's empowering and it's connecting
in a way that few things are of that nature.
So I would even say that, you know, some people,

(39:43):
some people that lead this type of music are more
strident or commanding and like, come on, everyone sing, you know.
I think I, being a more shy nature, I really
empathize and understand how that feels to feel so nervous.
So I don't I don't don't expect people to, you know,
push themselves in a way that feels just too uncomfortable.

(40:05):
I always tell people if you want to sing internally,
because you have we have an internal voice as well,
you can sing back in your heart. I do that
on the plane if I'm stressed I listen to something
and then I sing back with my inner voice. But
it's incredibly freeing, and I've seen people relax and become

(40:27):
free in a way that they didn't expect by letting
go and letting their voice out. You know, everything that
feels uncomfortable initially usually feels you feel a great sense
of achievement afterwards as well.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, what do you think? What do you think people
turn to your music for? Like when you're finding people
discovering your music? Yeah, who are not from the tradition,
who don't aren't familiar with it? What are they? I mean,
like you were? You were Rady's I think number one
artist on Spotify rat this year. What do you think people? Yeah?

(41:02):
What are people seeking? What have you found?

Speaker 1 (41:05):
I can say what people tell me, which is I
think people say that they find a sense of peace,
a sense of shelter and comfort. A lot of people
tell me that they listen to their music to my
music in difficult times. You know, so many people say, yeah,
you know, I was studying for exams, my parent was unwell,

(41:30):
someone in my family was dying, or you know, I
was getting ready to get married, and then I played
your music on my wedding day as I was coming
in these kind of transitional and very meaningful moments in life.
A lot of people talk about playing my music first
thing in the morning or last thing at night when
they want to connect to a place of deep prayer

(41:54):
or a sacred space. Yeah. I think that's what people find.
And I'm always blown away by people's stories, you know,
because ultimately you as a person or I speak for myself, like,
we're so aware of our humanness and our flaws and

(42:15):
everything that we bring to you know, we bring all
of it to every endeavor. So it's really incredible for
me that I can do something that allows someone to
enter into that space where they feel so deeply connected,
because I know that that's not it. It's me because
I'm allowing myself to be used in that way, but
I know that there's something a lot deeper that's happening.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
Yeah. Every time, I mean every time I'm in one
of your sessions, I'm like just to the back, to
the whole background too.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I've seen that.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Like it. It's strange though, because you can't really explain it. Yeah,
it's so hard to put into words where you just
got to be in one I've had like my team
has come to sessions obviously, we have friends here, have
come to events home, and it's amazing how you don't
need to know the language. You don't really you don't
even need to know to some degree. I know, you
always explain what it means, but even if someone doesn't

(43:06):
know what it means, it's it's It's so interesting how
and sound has that potential. I think, you know, if
you look at even music right now, like Latin music,
is you know so global. Yeah, you know you've got
bad Bunnies, Puerto Rican and that style of music has
taken over and you've got and that's what's so beautiful
about music in generalist, it's so beyond language and so

(43:27):
beyond where you grew up.

Speaker 1 (43:29):
It transmits transmit I really feel.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
It, Yeah, which is which is so special. And I
definitely feel that in you know, in in Montra music
in an unexpected way.

Speaker 1 (43:40):
Yeah, although I would say, you know, I've started to
also experiment with or not experiment, but part of my
creative journey in the last few years has been to
to write original songs also and incorporate that into especially
when I do concerts. You know, I kind of distinguish

(44:01):
certain settings for certain offerings. I think, you know, there's
a lot of times I'll lead meditation sessions with Kirtan
in a very traditional sense, and it has a very
it can have a very intimate feeling, especially if people
are they know what to do, you know they're ready.
But in a more maybe I don't know if theatrical

(44:25):
setting is the right word to use, But in an
auditorium where there may be people who have never done
this before, I've started to weave together these traditional chants
with sometimes original songs in English, because it's not only
just a tool for making a connection point for someone
else with a language of prayer, but for me also,

(44:47):
I've found it to be something that brings a certain
vulnerability and personalism to which I think in some ways,
growing up, I would have thought that that was taboo,
because the practice of Caretena is very much not about
you putting yourself there. It's really being a vessel, being

(45:08):
a channel to just give this pure sound. But I
think that there's some value as well in sharing, yeah,
a personal a personal prayer, a personal reflection on just
being someone trying to go through life and be connected
to truth and faith and beauty.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, if someone was to start with one of your albums, Yeah,
where would you like them to start? Like, if someone
was like, I want to check this out, I don't
really know much about it, what would you recommend?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
I think if someone's curious in the just mostly the
traditional songs and mantras. My first album, Like a River
to the Sea, is a great one. But I think
a lot of people connect with the album that I
did with Willow called Rise, and then my recent album
Into the Forest. I think Rise and Into the Forest

(45:58):
are similar in that they incorporate both mantras and and
some original lyrics.

Speaker 2 (46:03):
Yeah. Yeah, that's great if anyone who's starting out there
journey of wanting to you know, move into devotional music
and I've never had the experience of it.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
Or they should check out Rady's playlist. So many people
tell me, oh, I found your music through Raddy. She's
got a great collection there of also many other wonderful artists.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I love that love. That's what's a misconception you think
people have about spiritual people.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
I think people tend to project a lot onto spiritual
people that they're like, you're so divine and you must
float around your house all day, you know, spouting like
wisdom quotes, and.

Speaker 2 (46:46):
That's exactly what I do.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
I've seen you in your robes.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (46:52):
I think a misconception is that spiritual people don't have doubts,
don't have material desires, don't make mistakes, or all of
those things obviously are true, or that spiritual people have
all the answers. I think to try to pursue a

(47:13):
life connected to a spiritual core is courageous because there
is a level of faith that's required where there's not
always a hard answer, there's very good answers, but you
also still have to be very open hearted and constantly
open to learning and surrender, which is very very difficult.

Speaker 2 (47:36):
Yeah, such a great answer, know what I expected, But yes,
such a great answer. It's a Yeah, everyone's human, and
everyone's trying, and everyone's failing, and everyone's making mistakes. And
I think the problem is when you think that a
spiritual person is perfect, then you don't feel spiritual internally, Yeah,
because you don't feel like you've reached what other people

(47:57):
have reached or what you should have reached, and that
can actually deter you from the path. Yeah, because you think, oh, well,
I'm not like that. And they have it all together,
and therefore I must not be spiritual, not realizing that
we all already are inherently and perfection may be the
goal and the aspiration, but the journey towards it is

(48:18):
far more incremental and step by step than it is
this enlightened day. I think, you know, I think that's
a misconception. I always think is people always like, what
was the day you've realized?

Speaker 3 (48:28):
Right?

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I have not had that came down from the car,
And it's again it's how media's portrayed it where it
feels like you have this day of enlightenment. I've had
really special meditations, I've had really special experiences, but it's
three steps forward, one step back, two steps forwards, three
steps forward, you.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
Know, ten steps back. You're like, what am I doing wrong?

Speaker 2 (48:51):
And that's what's meant to be?

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah, yeah, I do find that, you know, I encountered
that the more that I became publicly known for doing
muntter meditation and devotion sacred music, I would start to
encounter more and more people coming to me like with
you know, shining eyes. I could feel and sometimes it's

(49:15):
very obvious by the words they say that they they
are for want of a better phrase, putting me on
a pedestal, or thinking that there's some kind of perfection,
you know, happening, which I know is not true. And
I think part of that is, you know, anyone that's
kind of facilitating us to go into a spiritual practice

(49:36):
or experience, we may you know, associate that person with
the feeling and the and the the real, the very
real experience that we get. But I think, yeah, I
think as you get older, especially just accepting both your
own being patient with your own flaws. I've definitely had

(49:57):
to learn to be very patient with myself because yeah,
I mean, we're blessed to have as well, you know,
we're blessed to know so many people who truly are
exemplary in their life and their actions. And yeah, I
mean I identify without looking at someone thinking, God, you know,
I'm never going to be I'm never going to be spiritual.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
What's something that you used to believe to be true
spiritually and now you don't agree with it?

Speaker 1 (50:29):
I think I think growing up in a particular spiritual
tradition you can have, you're surrounded by constant affirmation and
validation of that tradition. You know, if you're immersed in
a community, You're sur surrounded by people who believe in

(50:52):
that path, in those practices, And I think the more
that I've grown and encountered people from all different walks
of life, who've had all different kinds of experiences, I
don't know if it's so much something that I don't
believe anymore, but it challenges a lot of things that

(51:14):
I've heard, things that I've just accepted because everyone around
me was saying yes, yes, And I really value that.
I feel that's necessary. But it's not always easy because
sometimes there's not an easy resolution or answer.

Speaker 3 (51:32):
To.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah, conflicting worldviews and opinions about things. So that's something
that I've encountered a lot on my journey. Sometimes it's
even people that are within the same broad category of
a religion or a faith tradition, but you know, different
strands of specific beliefs. There's so much nuance, and yeah,

(52:00):
I think I've found it harder to be like this
is the answer.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I agree. I think it's
a healthy thing. And it's also the brain just doesn't
like it. For simplicity's sake. It's just easier for the
brain to have it set of beliefs and move with
them even if they're not health And so when you
allow yourself to be in a paradox, yeah, it's challenging. Yeah,

(52:27):
and that's why we avoid it. That's why we prefer
left or right, or black or white, or binary thinking.
And so I find that in my own self. I
try and live it like that. I try and live
in the middle of the Venn diagram always like trying
not to be binary. But it's hard because you're it's
so much easier to pick a place to live and say, yeah,

(52:49):
I'm going to go all in and believe this is
the truth, or I'm going to refute it. And it's like, well, no,
there's things that make sense and there's things that don't
make sense. I was just saying to someone this morning.
I was like, it's how we've always talked about how
whether the glass is half full or half empty, and
I'm like, it's both, yeah, Like it's always both. Like
that's just a stupid question because did you see it?

Speaker 1 (53:11):
Could you see it too? Like could one I have
one lens and.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
The other have the other earlier?

Speaker 1 (53:15):
And it's like both things.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Yeah, and both things are true if a glass is
half full, it is therefore half empty. Yeah, And so
therefore the right answer is I see both. And if
you see both, it means I can fill the glass up. Yeah,
and it also means I have more to drink. And
so this idea of do you see the glass is
half full of half empty? The answer is both, But
it's the brain doesn't want that answer. The brain just
wants to choose one or the others. So we either

(53:36):
become positive or you know, evangelists of our beliefs, or
we become negative and pessimists of that belief and we
don't recognize that most things have lots of good in
them and lots of things that they could improve and yeah,
and grow. But it's the brain, for simplicity's sake, prefers
one or the other.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
And yeah, and sometimes it's hard to feel, you know,
it's difficult because you also don't want to be Sometimes
you have to choose a specific direction or you know,
there is specificity to the choices we make. And sometimes
you know, for integrity, you need to kind of define things,
you know, is it this or is it that? But anyway,

(54:17):
it's yeah, it's very context based as well. I find
but I don't know. I don't know if it's because
of me also trying to connect with that space, but
I know a lot of people have told me that,
you know, there's so many people who have grown up
in religious environments who have experienced a lot of heavy
judgment or trauma. Even it seems more common than not sometimes,

(54:44):
or at least maybe I just encounter people who speak
about that. And I've felt encouraged that people have said
when they've come to my events or gatherings that they
feel it's a safe space to to to be in
a spiritual space but not have something imposed upon them,
And I feel happy about that. You know, I want

(55:07):
to try to hold that tension, and I don't know
if it's tension, but it's like, you know, walking a
path of integrity and specificity oneself, but being able to
create space that feels very inclusive and welcoming for everyone.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
Has there ever been anything that's really difficult that you've
gone through in life that you feel your faith has
been integral to moving through.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
I don't think there's been a life event like you know,
some of the huge things that happen or you know,
losing a love one, things like that that are often
the cause of a you know, a deep grief and
sorrow that you know, it sometimes leads to a spiritual search.

(56:14):
But I think I have experienced crisis of faith which
required faith to come out.

Speaker 2 (56:22):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Yeah, yeah, which, yeah, it took me by surprise, you know.
I think the experience, especially if you're used to being
someone who who, that's something that you do feel sure of,
and then when it's suddenly not there, it can feel
like rug is pulled out from under your feet. And
I felt like I'm not quite sure who I am.

(56:44):
You know, you're like like like in a coloring book.
You know, you've got the lines and that's like the
defined color within the lines. But imagine if the lines
just disappeared and you're just color, Like who am I?
Without that? I have experienced that a couple of times.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's it's an interesting answer
because yeah, it's like how I hosted the Variety Faith
and Spirituality on his last week, and I was talking
about how the people who are being awarded and honored
they've showed different types of faith, and I was saying

(57:23):
it showed having faith, messy faith, losing faith, and that's
what makes it so real. Where I think faith based
content or people sometimes have always been shown as one note,
where like this is who you are, or like this
is the kind of person you should be. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And now I think we're showing these variegated depictions of

(57:46):
what faith can look like, it's spirituality can look like,
and it's just so much more real because relata relatable
and grounded and accessible and yeah, just truly trying to
spar because that's what it can look like. And I
think if anyone is a person of how did faith
help you rEFInd faith when there was a crisis of faith?

Speaker 1 (58:08):
I think there was a period of time and it
wasn't that long, but because of the disorientation that I felt,
it felt a lot longer than it was. I think
of feeling like the faith had just totally evaporated, and
you know, it feels like a type of it feels

(58:29):
like a type of darkness because something that had previously
given you a lot of light and internal support and
nourishment just seems to disappear or no, it seems like
vapor that is was that actually real? And I think
I think faith almost it felt like it seeped in

(58:51):
almost like a you know, through a pin hole where
you get light that just comes through a tiny crack
and it gradually grows. But initially there had to be
a speck of faith for me to think that faith
could even return in a way, I had to be

(59:11):
open to that. And I found through that experience I
connected more to prayer spontaneously and personally versus more ritual
type of worship or a set you know, practice or routine,

(59:36):
more spontaneously, more expressively in English. And it's funny because
I grew up, you know, completely steeped in prayer, like
throughout the day, because that's just the environment I was in.
I was thinking about the soundscape of my life growing up.
There was always bells ringing, and you know, in my

(59:57):
tradition we blow this conch shell. There's these kind of
spiritual sounds around and ancient Mantra's Sanskrit was a very
familiar language for me. But what I didn't have confidence
and ease with was praying in the language that I
speak and actually being that personal to just be alone

(01:00:20):
and speak those words whatever was coming up. And I
think that was a really transformative experience and time for
me and actually led to some of the songs that
I've recorded because eventually I thought, you know, you don't
always think like that I should record this because it's
so personal and specific. But I did feel that I

(01:00:42):
bet there are others who go through these times or
who feel these these emotions, who may it may enable
them to express words that they can't find the words
to say.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
Do you think we all need to talk to God
more one?

Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
Yeah. I was thinking about this ahead of our chat
because I was thinking about how much you know, in
the last I don't know if it's the last decade,
but of course mindfulness is a word that we've heard
so much. Meditation has become something that is so in
many ways integrated into you know, it's not that everyone

(01:01:25):
does it, but if you say it, no one's going
to probably look at you funny. You might see people
doing in an ad or you know. I always remember
walking into I think it was gap or something, you know,
on a high street, and there were these mannequins sitting
like this in the lotus position, and I was like, oh, interesting,
this is like filtering into just everyday you know, culture
and fashion. But I was thinking about how meditation can

(01:01:51):
bring us into this space of stillness and internal connection.
But what am I meditating on and the difference between
just coming to a place of groundedness, stillness, calming the mind,
and prayer, to me is quite distinct. That's my personal

(01:02:13):
take on it. You know, someone may use those terms
differently and describe it differently, but I feel like, yeah,
if prayer is not something that you've ever done, or
even if it is something that's familiar that you did
grow up with, I feel like, you know, sometimes they
say I'll just try doing something with your left hand

(01:02:35):
or your non dominant hand because it will reveal something
to you, or you'll feel a different way of looking
at something and doing something. I think, yeah, it might
be something that listeners would like to try, you know,
to either approach it for the first time or approach
it through a different pathway, like.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
What you've been used to, take a new neural pathway.
Almost yeah, yeah, why not?

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Yeah, yeah, sometimes it sometimes it involves you know, there's
so many different ways that people pray. For some people
it's very spontaneous. Some people have a very ritualized way
of placing their body in a certain position or doing
certain actions. And I think all of those things are
designed to bring us into a certain state of mind

(01:03:22):
and of being that allows can allow you to express
some of these deepest, these deepest sentiments that are otherwise
quite hard to access in a natural way.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
Yeah. Absolutely, Yeah. Yeah. I for me, like, I find
I love talking to God when I'm driving.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
I do that, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
That's my favorite. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:43):
In one of the hardest times I experienced, that was
the time you just reminded me of that. I would
just talk. Yeah, driving by myself, cry speak sing.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
I find driving to be so therapeutic in a place
to share streams of Yeah, and I always love it.
I think it also reminds me of that Bruce Almighty
scene where he's like asking God for a sign. Yeah,
God keeps sending him loads of signs and ignoring them,
and then his car goes off the bridge or whatever
it is, and I'm like, yeah, I'm always looking around
for signs, and I'm driving and connecting billboards to God's

(01:04:18):
message to me. And it's just like this fun idea
that that there's some you know, there's some power in
what I'm reading and seeing. So I love that last
question before the final five, what's a question you ask
yourself when you feel lost.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
M Am I connected with my Am I am I
being of service? Am I actually connected with service in
this moment.

Speaker 2 (01:04:50):
Because you believe that if you're connected to service, then
you'll have found where you belong.

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
Yeah. I feel like it's a state of being which
is protective because it's protective of the experience of being
totally lost because you're focusing on giving. It's hard being
embodied human. You know, it's so easy to feel lost
for so many different reasons. But when you're thinking about

(01:05:16):
how you can serve someone else, whatever that may look like,
I find that that really helps me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
It's such a great answer, and I could agree more.
And I think it's I think it's one of the
biggest losses of modern education and modern space, where everything
to solve you is all about you and not about
anyone else. And there's been studies on this too, like
if you have depression and you help people who have depression,
your depression goes down. And so even in a really

(01:05:44):
difficult state, the active service can still be helpful to yourself.
What to speak of when things are not that bad? Yeah,
and Yeah, it's fascinating to me how we always think Oh,
if I have more than I'll be able to give more.
But actually, wherever you are just now, you already may
have a little more than someone else. And if you
can help and support in whatever way, time, energy, money,

(01:06:05):
if that is your way of helping. Yeah, I love
that answer. It is such a good answer.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
It's something I've been I've been trying to to say
this this prayer every day and it's it's it's a
traditional Sanskrit prayer. I won't say all the words, but
it ends with the phrase das anudas and that means,
you know, servant of the servant. And it's funny when
when I when I was growing up, and you know,
this is one of those things that in a in

(01:06:31):
a religious community, a certain thing becomes a way that
people do things which from the outside can seem a
bit weird. Yeah, so everybody would sign a letter or
a message your servant. And I can't remember when it happened,
but maybe we were visiting some relatives or something. But
I just saw that through a different lens and I
thought that must sound so funny because the idea of

(01:06:54):
being a servant is not something that we would regard
very highly, you know, in a sort of like regular world.
But it's a really profound spiritual idea that to identify
as a servant as like an essential identity keeps you
always looking for ways to contribute and give. So, yeah,

(01:07:16):
I find that really helps me a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:07:19):
Yeah, it's yeah, I think if you it's really interesting
because I think the misconception of that is when we think, oh,
that means I have to stay small.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Yeah, or that means I'm going to be exploited.

Speaker 2 (01:07:32):
Correct, correct, And it's almost like there's been the servant
leadership movement and even the idea of oh, you could
be the SEO of a company and see yourself in
service of others. Yeah, Like it's not based on your
position in society. It's based on the mood and intention
that you do that act with. So someone could be

(01:07:52):
the coach of the biggest soccer team in the world
and see themselves as serving their team, and someone can
be the best player in the world and see themselves
as serving their team. Or you could be all those
things and think you're the best thing in the world
and no one else is important, and so it's got
nothing to do with your external position. And I think
the problem we think is, Oh, my external position has

(01:08:13):
to match that. Yeah, so therefore I want to be small. Yeah,
I've got to be small and play small. And it
doesn't make any sense because.

Speaker 1 (01:08:19):
Yeah, I'd like to understand. I'd like to to understand
and grasp that more deeply, because I think I still
struggle with that. Like you've always, you know, in our friendship,
You've always encouraged me to embrace what I'm doing and
be you know, unafraid to to I guess, grow and
broadcast out what I'm doing, you know, bigger and bigger

(01:08:42):
as a service. But it's so difficult when you're you're
you're more visible or more in a position of leadership
to continue to kind of, yeah, harmonize that that idea
that I'm serving, but also have to kind of have
the things that go along with being more in a
leadership position. I don't know, for me, I find it challenging.

Speaker 2 (01:09:05):
Yeah, no, I don't disagree. I think that the more
closer you get to your unique service, the less you
see it as big and small, and the more you
see it as just yours, and so there is no
it kind of fades away because it's so clearly what
you were meant to do that. Then you don't see
it as big or expansive or small or not. It's

(01:09:28):
just is. And therefore I find that people who know
their purpose and their drama are less envious, and less
comparative and less all of those things because they just
found their thing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
You know, you can't be or do what someone else
is doing because correct, you know yourself so well and correct,
and you feel aligned in what you're doing. I guess
I guess I'm coming to that. I'm coming to that now.
I think I've finally accepted myself as doing what I'm doing.
And this is why I an't taken a long time.

Speaker 2 (01:10:00):
Yeah, we'll got in the universe. Had to nominate you
for a dammy to get you to understand that.

Speaker 1 (01:10:04):
I mean, he knows that I need a big push,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Yeah, I love it, Janney. This has been so nice
getting to know you this way. Like I know, we've
we've had so many conversations. I mean, whenever you're over
at the house and you come up and will like
you know, stay up and talk for hours and hours
and hours. You know, I love having these conversations. But
I film so glad I get to share you with
the community. And I know you've been on before a
few years back. Now that was twenty twenty twenty, was
it twenty twenty.

Speaker 1 (01:10:28):
That was in your old place.

Speaker 2 (01:10:30):
Yeah, yeah, so amazing to have you back on.

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
Thank you. And I'm a fan of the podcast, so
this is like very cool for me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:37):
It's awesome to have you here. And we end every episode,
as you know as a fan of the podcast, with
a final five.

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:43):
These questions have to be answered in one word to
one sentence maximum Wow, everyone does one sentence and no
one okay, okay, So Johannavie Harrison, these are your final
five thank you. Question one, what is the best advice
you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:10:58):
Don't be afraid?

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
He told you that, do you remember.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
I've heard it from many different people, but I think
my parents' mentors. Yeah, and it's there in the bugger
with Gita. Don't be afraid, have trust and courage and
keep walking forward. Yes, purpose yes. Question number two, what
is the worst advice you've ever heard or received? Anything

(01:11:23):
related to what will other people think?

Speaker 2 (01:11:28):
Definitely? Definitely. It's when you say you want to do
something and goes what will they say? What will Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
Yeah, yeah, it's a good answer.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
Question number three, is there a decision you made that
didn't make any logical sense but was the right one
for you?

Speaker 1 (01:11:46):
The decision I made to on purpose miss a plane
home to get to take up this job as a
magazine editor. I've never I'm always like a real rule follower,
and the fact that I had a flight book is
and that I intentionally missed it and just said I'm

(01:12:07):
going to drop that. That didn't make any sense at
the time, and the next morning when I woke up,
I was like, what did I do? But I think
I was trying to follow a deeper intuition and it
turned out to lead me to this and many other moments,
but that it took a long time for me to realize. Yeah,
I had to have confidence in that decision along the way.

Speaker 2 (01:12:28):
Yeah, I'm so glad you did that question of before,
what's something that you used to value that you don't
value anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
I think I used to put a lot more value
on other people's opinions, and that doesn't mean that I
don't now, but it's something I've actively worked on because
I've realized how how damaging it can be to place
that much weight and concern on what other people are

(01:12:57):
thinking and saying I don't know if I could have
come to that point any earlier. Yeah, part of growing
up for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
So yeah, it's the biggest one. It's it's a weird one.
You want to It's almost like you want to choose
which opinions you listen to from which people. Yeah, because
we all have to listen to someone like yeah, and
you know, as we talk about in spirituality, there has
to be some sense of authority and the challenges when
you give everyone an authority of yeah, and all of
a sudden, now you listen to everyone with equal You

(01:13:29):
listen to everyone with equal attention despite their lack of
authority or competence or character. Weight to give weight when
it doesn't have any value. Yeah, that's what I think
is the issue. We all have to listen to someone,
but we give too much weight and value to people
who don't know anything about that or us.

Speaker 1 (01:13:47):
Yeah. I think I used to do that to the extreme,
probably because of also growing up in an environment where
you're expected to, you know, respectfully hear from anyone who's
older than you or you know, knows more than you.
But yeah, it's I'm a work in progress for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:14:04):
No, I came up with a system whenever I thinks
like a monk to make it easier because I struggled
with that so much. Inspiritual circles, for sure, but in general,
and I came up with something that I call the
four season, which is character, care, consistency, and competence. And
so I think about the problem that I have and
then I figure out who I'm speaking to based on

(01:14:25):
one of those four. So if it's a morality question,
I have to ask the person of high character, because
if I just ask the person who cares about me,
they may bend morality in my favor. Or if I
am worried about my health, I've got to talk to
the person who cares about me but is also competent,
whereas the person who might have who might consistently be

(01:14:46):
around me, they may not have the best insight and advice.
Or like, for example, if I talk to my mom,
she just cares if I've eaten well, but she won't
give me the best work advice because she'd prefer I
take care of myself then do something good for work.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
And so do they all four have to be there
or it's different things for different stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:15:03):
I believe no one has all four Oh and there
are different things for different decisions. Yeah, and they just
care about you. Yeah, so there's advice is skewed, but
their opinion is also. One of my favorite quotes says,
don't take directions from someone who's never been to where
you're going. And we all do that. We all take

(01:15:23):
someone's opinion and they've not even been there, they've never
they've never reached that or achieved that, and we're sitting
here taking their word as gospel. Yeah, and so yeah,
those four sees have kind of really helped me.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
That is really helpful.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
Yeah, tough.

Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
It's tough one to learn because you may have people
that are very close to you and you assume that
by intimacy, by the fact that they know you so deeply,
that they will have all or at least most of those.
But yeah, it's necessarily the case.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Yeah, even even my mom, Like my mom has a
very good character. She cares about me, she's consistent, but
she's not competent in every She's competent in some are
is there some things my mom has great insight on you,
but she's not competent in every area of my life
and therefore it's not you know then anyway, all right,
Fifth and final question. We asked this every guest who's
ever been on the show. If you could create one

(01:16:13):
law that everyone in the world had to follow, what
would it be.

Speaker 1 (01:16:18):
I would love everyone to talk to God more. I
feel like I feel like a lot of you know,
like a domino effect, a lot of things would shift.
And I know it sounds like a cliche, but to
truly have this mood of being in service to others,

(01:16:42):
to each other. Imagine if that was like a compulsory
thing just to be a citizen of the world. I
think it would be a beautiful world.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
It's a great answer. How do you know if you're
talking to God or talking to yourself?

Speaker 1 (01:16:57):
You know it's intention. You might it might look like
you're talking to yourself, but I think you it's. Yeah,
it's purely about your intention. If you address God, I mean,
if you are familiar with any spiritual tradition, most most
will agree that God is everywhere, in everything, everything is

(01:17:21):
coming from Him her, and so there's so many different
ways to do that. And yeah, you can do it
in your own way, or you can get guidance on
how to do it. But I think if you've if
you've not experienced it before, it's just it's it's so
worth it, and it's not worth it's not worth missing

(01:17:45):
out on what you may find through that experience, to
you know, to kind of leave it aside.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Everyone. The album is called Into the Forest. Jenevie Harrison
just got nominated for a Grammy. I'm so excited. I'll
be the game key. Yeah, the thing has crossed.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
Hoping see you in two months, hoping for the way. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
For any of you don't already, please follow Janavi Arrison
on Instagram. You can subscribe to your music on Spotify
and listen along to the album she's mentioned today. And Johnavian,
thank you so much for being such a dear friend,
for doing this interview, and so proud of you, so
excited for this really big moment in your amazing career.
And thank you just you doing something based on service

(01:18:26):
and devotion and it being recognized at this level. It's
so exciting you.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
I want to say thank you to you because you've
been such an encouraging friend. But also I think so
many of these very meaningful moments in my journey have
been somehow connected to you through through serving together, I've
learned so much and I recognize that a lot of

(01:18:50):
significant growth that I've had has been through your encouragement.
So I really feel that. So I share the Grammy
nom with you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:00):
Well yeah, and everyone add that to my bio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
No, it's really a privilege. I'm so grateful to be here.

Speaker 2 (01:19:08):
No, you're so kind and honestly, it's been such a joy.
Like it's fun looking back at those pictures of the
last twenty years.

Speaker 1 (01:19:14):
Did you mention Weymouth?

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
Yeah? Yeah, do you know the funny thing about that
picture is I'm actually sitting behind a pillar, so you
can't even see me in it. But it's like, yeah,
we drove to Weymouth, which I can't remember how father
is from London.

Speaker 1 (01:19:26):
I think it was about three hours, three.

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
Hours, We stayed the night, We did an event as
like ten people came.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
Yeah, and like, I mean it's a beautiful event.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
It was a beautiful event. But that's the kind of
you know, it's fun talking about these things because it's
easy to sit here now and you know, you nominate
for Grammy and all the rest of it. But it's like, no,
it's like we used to drive three hours and I
would do a talk and you would chant and lead
meditations and we would do that for free, just wanting

(01:19:54):
to do our surveys. And we do it all the time.
We did our universities. We did it and it was
just for free all the time. Yeah, together, and it's
fun looking back, and you know, we still do so
many things for the community and yeah, you're and there,
but it's just so yeah, it's fun. It's fun too,
came back.

Speaker 1 (01:20:10):
Yeah, and how to change channel and hold on to
that same spirit even though the form, you know, the
vessel of it may change, it may have more kind
of image of material success, but the intention that yes,
I want to be there and I want to I
want to show up with everything that I can give,

(01:20:30):
how to kind of yeah, hold on to that. I know.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
There was a magic about those times.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
Yeah, yeah, I remember doing these meditation sessions at Soas University.
Remember running from the tube station across Russell Square and
it would be like three students would be there and
we do that for an hour. But yeah, there's precious times.
Anytime you get those kind of opportunities, I think so yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Well, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:20:57):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
If you love this episode, you'll enjoy my interview with
doctor Daniel Ahman on how to change your life by
changing your brain.

Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
If we want a healthy mind, it actually starts with
a healthy brain.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
I've had the blessing or the curse to scan over
a thousand convicted felons and over one hundred murderers, and
their brains are very damaged.

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