Jillian Turecki: 3 Biggest Dating Mistakes You’re Making (Stop Chasing Love That’s Not For You)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:25):
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Speaker 2 (00:45):
Who you decide to partner with is one of the
most important decisions you will ever make. If someone is
not into you, they absolutely are not for you.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
World renowned relationship coach, podcast host, and speaker.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
It's the why me. This is never going to happen.
People then get into this learned toplessness. This state that
I am in is permanent.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
No, what are the three biggest mistakes I'm making in
dating right now?

Speaker 2 (01:11):
Okay, so number one is the number one health and
wellness podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Jay Sheety Jay Sheety mdy Only Shetty. Hey everyone, Welcome
back to On Purpose, the place you come to become
a happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is Jillian Tareki,
a relationship coach, teacher, podcast host, and speaker with over
twenty years of experience helping people transform themselves and their

(01:42):
love lives. As the founder of the Jillian Tareki Coaching
she offers transformative workshops, retreats, and coaching that blends psychology, yoga,
and somatic practices. Her teachings, influenced by diverse spiritual traditions,
connect ancient wisdom with modern relationship dynamics. Jillian's first book,
It Begins with You, has Nine Truths Everyone should know,

(02:06):
the nine hard truths about love that will change your life.
And it's going to be out on January fourteenth. Make
sure you go and grab a copy if you're trying
to figure out your love life right now. Please welcome
to On Purpose, Jillian Tareki. Jillian, it's great to have.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
You here, wonderful to be here. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (02:24):
Of course, of course, I'm so fascinated by love and
relationships and my last book was all about love and relationships,
So whenever I get to sit down with a fellow
coach and a fellow author to learn more and understand more.
I'm a huge fan of the videos you post on
social media, and I think you're doing such a great
job of speaking about really, really interesting things when it

(02:46):
comes to love. But I wanted to start off with
asking you because this is I always trying to get
a sense of what our audience is worried about and
concerned about and challenge with. And one of the big
things that keeps coming up is what are the three
biggest mistakes I'm making in dating right now?

Speaker 2 (03:02):
Like?

Speaker 1 (03:02):
What am I getting wrong about dating? That seems to
be the top question.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
So there's a few things. One is it shouldn't just
be the apps. I don't tell people get off the apps.
Sometimes I say get on the apps. But if you
just focus on that, that's going to burn you out
and it's going to exhaust you and you're meeting a
bunch of strangers. So that's like another mistake that people
make is that they're impatient. It's not every day that

(03:29):
you meet someone who you want to build a relationship with,
like it's just not that easy. But you have to
get out there. You have to be proactive. Look, there
are people who are sitting around on their couch waiting
for like that person to fall onto the couch next
to them, and it's not going to happen that way.
So you can either live your life to the fullest

(03:52):
and enjoy your life and trust that one day organically
it may or may not happen if you put yourself
out there and you why din your circle, or you
actually have to be proactive, and that might mean going
on a like dating like it's your business, like going
on a bunch of dates every single week with this
low of an expectation as possible. Because one of the

(04:12):
biggest mistakes that people make in dating, like I have
nothing but compassion and empathy for this, but you're texting
with someone, you're kind of excited, you feel like there's
a vibe, and then you go out and you're like, oh,
I don't feel spark or I'm not into it, and
then there's this People then get into learned helplessness. And
when they go into learned helplessness, they're like, you know,
it's the why me. This is never going to happen.

(04:34):
It's this state that I am in is permanent, like
I will never find anyone.

Speaker 3 (04:38):
No.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
Dating is really an opportunity for you to practice your
social skills. Social skills are things that most people are
not that great at. Honestly, even the people who think
that they're really great at it. It takes a lot
to really talk to someone and not interview them and
actually be curious about them. You know, a lot of
people are nervous. So practice and being comfortable in your

(05:02):
body and getting to know someone, and who knows, maybe
you make a friend and maybe you never want to
see that person again, but at least you're practicing. So
the three biggest mistakes is just focusing on the apps
and not actually expanding your circle and doing new things
and letting the certain things unfold organically. Number two impatience.

(05:22):
Number three just sort of high expectations. But I want
to add another one if I can. People will get
into these very long I mean when I say long,
like weeks texting exchanges with these people, and it gives
them a false sense of intimacy. Oh I have this
amazing connection. They never even met the person, and then
maybe they never meet. Don't do that text a little

(05:45):
bit back and forth like a day, and make a
date to either meet on FaceTime zoom or in person.
You really should go about it as if your time
is too precious to waste texting back and forth with
a stranger who may not be available for a month,
for a month or more. And then you're getting all excited.
I understand, like the thrill of it, and it's all

(06:06):
it's exciting, but it's such a waste of time. Honestly,
you know, meet the person.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
As you were speaking, I was thinking about what's at
the root of that for so many people, and one
of the things that came to me was this fear
of rejection. So even the idea of I'm talking to
this person for a month is because I don't have
to potentially face meeting someone and them never wanting to
meet me again, or the resistance that we have to

(06:34):
make work and dating feel the same. I know so
many people who will cancel on dates last minute because
they're scared of well, what if I go and it
doesn't work out. And rejection, by the way, is two
types of rejection. One type of rejection is that person
doesn't want me, and the other type of rejection is
that person doesn't meet my expectations or that person I

(06:56):
don't want to be with them. Yes, so I'm not
just saying rejection in that we're scared of, well, what
if that person doesn't like me. We're also scared of that,
am I going to reject another person? And like you said,
with the high expectations, what do we do about both
of those types of our fear of rejection? Because let's
take the more obvious one to start with. We all

(07:17):
want to be loved, we want to be liked. We
all want the next person to be the person. Yeah,
chances are that's not going to happen. We know that, Yeah,
but still we struggle with the fact that I'm going
to meet someone and they're going to say, well, you're
not right for me, or you know, don't don't really
want to see you again. Like, how do you get
over that? Because we talk about it in an entrepreneurship,
we talk about it in life, but when you do

(07:39):
it with love, it seems so personal.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
It's one thing to be rejected by the person you love.
It's another thing to be rejected by a stranger who
you don't know. This is just human nature. We go
on dates even if we're not into the person, we
want them to be into us or right yes, or
like we find them. Let's say we find them attractive
and then find out, wait, you're not into me, you

(08:01):
don't find me attractive. Yeah, but life, really, the quality
of our lives is very much determined by how well
we can confront rejection. Like, you're not going to be
for everyone. And I really believe this with all of
my heart and soul. If someone is not into you
for whatever reason, like let's say you're in the early
dating process, they're not attracted to you, they're not feeling

(08:22):
a spark, whatever it is, they absolutely are not for you.
I can guarantee that. So it's important to build that
resilience against rejection muscle. First of all, it makes a
person more attractive. Second of all, it's just part of life.
And I know that it's like you're putting yourself out there.

(08:42):
But I wish there was like a magic pill that
I could give people to just get over it. But
you have to become more resilient when it comes to that.
You know, you can't be hiding behind text and not
actually meet the person. It sounds hard, but you have
to be stronger than that. Honestly, you really really do.
And you have to just trust that, like you're not

(09:02):
for everyone and not everyone's for you. And yes, it's awkward,
and maybe we can just all acknowledge the awkwardness of
it all, you know, but you still have to If
you want love and you want a relationship, you have
to go for it. You can't just be passive.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
You're looking for one person to fall in love with
you and for you to fall in love with yes,
and for that you're going to have to meet a
lot of people to find that one person. But all
you need is one person to say yes, one person
to say I do, one person to say I love you.
And if you're only looking for one person, just by
the nature of odds, you should know that that probably

(09:38):
won't be the next person. So switching to that, you
said one thing about kind of going in at the
lowest baseline expectation, which I agree with, because then you're
allowing it to become a friendship. You're allowing it to
become a nothing ship. You're allowing it to become what
it is. Yes, as opposed to us walking in and
going this next person's going to be my wife, my husband,

(09:59):
whatever it may be. Yeah, my partner. I think it's
so natural for so many of us to want to
speed up love. Yeah, like speeding up love seems to
be our addiction and obsession with I just want to
meet the one now that we're daying, I just want
to get married now, you know, it's we're trying to
accelerate love almost So how do we slow it down?

(10:21):
And how do we take it back to baseline?

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Number one? Is there is no the one? There really isn't.
I mean, we actually choose who the one is? And
this is this is really really important. Love, as I'm
sure you know, is a choice, Like it's a feeling
for sure, But we're so conditioned to believe that love
is just a feeling as opposed to a choice, and

(10:45):
that when if you do decide to be with someone
long term, you're going to have to make that choice
many many times throughout your relationship, which is I choose you, right,
So people want to rush it, and so what they
do you and what I've done is that we lie
to ourselves. And it's also because we've been lied by
society that there is in romanticism, that there is this

(11:07):
one person who's going to come into your life and
rescue you and make your life better, and that once
you find that person, like everything becomes easier. And I'm
certainly not advocating for people being in difficult relationships, but
the more challenges you've had in relationships, the less that
you've been modeled what it is to actually really love someone,

(11:29):
the more you are going to be challenged to overcome
and transcend old things and old patterning to actually love
someone and to do love to where it's a verb
and not just a feeling. So how do we slow
it down? And we just want to rush it? It's
about acknowledging that feeling. So a lot of people they

(11:50):
meet there's chemistry, and I know that this was me.
I think if there's chemistry, then this is it as
opposed to, well, maybe in the past there's been chemistry,
and I haven't had chemistry with the right people, So
maybe I need to slow down a little bit and
sort of process my enthusiasm. And it's not about I
don't want anyone to I don't want to reign on
anyone's parade. Like all that stuff is really fun in

(12:12):
the beginning, but you want to just say, okay, hold on,
what am I feeling right now? This feels really good,
this is really exciting. But I need to slow down
because I actually need to uncover this person's character. I
need to uncover their values. I perhaps need to get
a little bit clearer on what it is that I need,
what it is that I value, and what it is

(12:34):
that I really really want, Not just my preference, but
what do I need in order to function in a relationship.
Do I have some understanding of myself? You know, it's
difficult women, childbearing, age, societal pressures, get married. I understand.
I have nothing but compassion for that. The more that
I can stress that who you decide to partner with

(12:56):
is one of the most important decisions you will ever
make in your entire life. And we are meant to
kind of get it wrong, and some of us get
it wrong for a longer time than others right, But
it is the most important decision. So if you're going
to rush that, you're really truly doing yourself a disservice.

(13:18):
And you have to get comfortable with the fact that, yes,
you're scared. You're scared to be alone, you're scared to
not be loved. You don't want to be in the
dating world. I get all of that. Be mindful of it,
you know, connect to that within yourself, and remind yourself
always that who you decide to spend your life with

(13:38):
might be one of the most important decisions, if not
the most important decision, because there's no one in your
life who's going to have a bigger impact on your
overall well being and emotional state than the person who
you choose to spend your life with. So you've got
to take that decision very seriously and not rush it.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I have often said to friends, there's the pain of
being single, and there's the pain of being in the
wrong relationship. Yes, and the pain of being single is
a lot better than the pain of being in the
wrong relationship.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Agree one hundred percent agree on It's so.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Hard when you're dating someone and you've got enmeshed into
each other's lives. There's the toxicity, there's complexity, there's as
you said earlier, there's a disconnect in your values the
person's character. You think you just discovered it, but actually
they showed it all along and you didn't see the signs,

(14:34):
And now you're thinking, gosh, I was happier when I
was single, and you can't see that when you're single,
because the promise of being in a relationship is so
alluring and intoxicating that we feel like I must have
that now.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yes, and many of those people might think, yes, it's
easier when I'm single, but they're actually free to go
back to it, and that's why they stay in these relationships,
because we fear the unknown.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Why is it that we end up being attracted to
people that are not into us, and then people who
are into us we're not into them. Why does that happen?

Speaker 2 (15:10):
I'm going to give you some theories, and there are
theories shared by many, but one thing that I say
is that if anyone truly understood one hundred percent the
answer to that, they would win the Nobel Peace Prize.
Right because everyone has these theories and they're good theories
and they're rooted in psychology. I really want to put
out there that no one truly has the answer to that.

(15:31):
But there's some really good theories. So one theory, when
someone is not paying as much attention to us that
could trigger attraction, and one of the reasons is, well
maybe they are, like, maybe there's something really special about
them and so we put them on a pedestal, and

(15:52):
where we are on the spectrum of our self esteem
impacts that greatly. So we are on the lower end
of self este then we are going to meet people
often and think that they are better than us. If
our self esteem is on the healthy level, then we
kind of are like, well, I'm not better than anyone else,
and no one's really better than me. We are all one, right.

(16:13):
And then there, of course there's the grandiosity, which is
they think everyone is sort of below them in some way.
But the people who I work with and most of
the problems, and I think the people who probably write
into you, there's more of a lower self esteem issue
happening where they put someone up on a pedestal and
they project unconsciously their ideal partner onto this person. Maybe

(16:34):
this person looks exactly like a childhood crush or like
you know, the actor who they were always in love with,
or maybe there is just something about them and their
vibe that they're like, this is the person that I want,
and or maybe it's their job. The things on the surface,
people will then think I must get this person, because

(16:55):
if I get this person, then I'm actually getting everything
that I've ever wanted in a partner. On the surface,
if I get this person, I'm validated. I'm going to
have a good life. Right, So it's all an illusion.
It truly is all an illusion. Then there's like the
deeper childhood wounds of my father was very rejecting. I'm

(17:16):
putting this in the context just because I'm a woman
who dates men, so I'm just thinking more. But it
could be you know, obviously whoever you date, but if
one of your parents was rejecting of you, and that's
all you ever knew, and so you never really felt
good enough. So actually, in dating and in love, your
sort of like center of gravity psychologically is I work

(17:38):
really hard to earn love as opposed to understanding or
being used to no, Like, all I have to do
is be myself and the right person is going to
fall madly in love with me, right, you know, be
myself with a little dosage of like also let me
check myself.

Speaker 1 (17:55):
Right.

Speaker 2 (17:56):
So people are used to that, They're used to the
rejection they and then again the lower self esteem if
they're not into me challenge accepted. So other people are
just like there's a competitive edge. I'm going to be
like I'm going to change this person, or I'm going
to be the inspiration for their change, or I'm going
to make them notice me. There's just a conglomerate of

(18:17):
influences around that. Why are they not attracted to the
person who's actually into them? Again, a lot of theories,
and I think they're good ones. Fear of intimacy. You know,
if and this is all unconscious, if I'm into the
person who's into me, then we actually have to be
in a relationship, and then I actually have to be vulnerable,

(18:37):
and then I actually have to be emotionally available, and
then we're going to build this thing. And like, ooh,
that's icky and scary. What's easier for me is to
go for the person who's completely emotionally unavailable, who's actually
not that into me and may not even be that
nice to me, but they're hot and there's something about
them and I really want to have sex with them,
and I'm just going to use that as sort of
like an inn. There's some deeper healing needs to go

(19:00):
on there, like that might require therapy, that might require
looking into your family of origin and trying to understand
that there could be like for a woman who's dating
a man. You know, maybe she has a very misguided
understanding of what it is for a man to be masculine. Right,
So a woman typically is looking for lots of different things,

(19:22):
but a lot of women who date men are looking
for a man. Or she wants to feel safe. She
wants to feel safe, and she wants to feel seen,
she wants to feel understood. Maybe she's looking for some
providership and maybe that has nothing to do with money,
but just has to do with energy and vibe, right,
And so then she'll look to the man who may
on the outside seem strong. Maybe he's tough, you know,

(19:45):
maybe his physique is big and strong. Maybe he's got
a little bit of like that dark edge. So she
reads it as, oh, he's going to protect me. There's
something masculine and sexy about him. But on the inside,
he's broken. He has no idea how to love because
he doesn't know how to love himself. He's not safe.
He's actually very unsafe. Even if not physically, he's going

(20:08):
to be unsafe emotionally. And so there's a maturity that
needs to happen to understand that, like your type, you
have to get under the hood of the car a
little bit more and understand, Like, if you're looking for
those qualities in a person, and I'm just using this
an example, then really what's actually going to be safe
is someone with strong character, someone with presence, someone who
has a sense of self, who can actually feel safe

(20:32):
in his or her own body. And when they can
feel safe in their body, they can actually provide safety
for you in the relationship. And that you also have
to understand how to make yourself safe. So there's a
lot going on. I hope I'm not saying too much,
but yeah, But so there's maturity level here, there's misguided
understanding of what it is for someone to truly be
embodied and safe and valued, and then there's also childhood

(20:57):
wounding and they could be all part of it.

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(22:28):
relationships is that if someone's into us, we see it
as their weakness. And if someone's not into us, we
see it as their strength. And it goes back to
where you start this book, is that it all begins
with you, because all of that is made up in
our minds because we're saying, oh, well, if you're into me,
then that means you must be weak because you're into me.

(22:50):
If you're not into me, then that means you must
be really specially important because you're not into me. And
so again it comes back to us. And so when
you say it begins with you, you, how do we
learn to acknowledge our strengths and accept our weaknesses? How
do we learn to build our self esteem at the

(23:11):
same time as have self awareness? Yeah, of our shortcomings?
What does that look like?

Speaker 2 (23:15):
So it's difficult because when you're dealing with because what
you've just said, like, if you're into me, then you
must be weak, but if you're not into me, then
you must be strong. That's all through the filter of
low self esteem and low self worth. It's like, what's
wrong with you that you are actually into me? It's
not just about accountability. It's like, can you see how

(23:38):
incredibly powerful you are that you can be the change
that you want to see in your life. This isn't
about like, oh, you're the problem. It's really rarely that
it's one person who's the problem in a relational dynamic. Yes,
it does exist for very extreme cases, and I'm never

(23:59):
going to say that it's fifty to fifty. You know,
it really could be someone who's seventy percent of the
quote unquote problem and someone who's thirty percent. But if
you can see that your relationship or your life is
really the product of the choices that you make, and
that it's not your fault if you didn't learn, Like,

(24:19):
we're all trying to figure out what it really truly
means to love someone. Philosophers have been talking about this
for centuries, trying to understand what love is or is not,
and especially if you were raised in a family where
like your parents really kind of didn't love each other.
You know, maybe they said they loved each other, but
their actions would speak otherwise. So we're all really trying

(24:40):
to do the best that we can do with the
tools that we have. And really this book is just
about giving tools. So how do you build self awareness
and also have the self esteem. You're never going to
raise your self esteem by being too precious with yourself.
You have to be willing to be brave and to
look at the hard things, but also at the same
time knowledge how strong you are. Like, let's just start

(25:03):
with that, Like all the miles that you've walked, all
the things that you've had to overcome, all the struggles,
all the late nights that maybe you've had of being
really anxious, and yet you still manage to go to
sleep and get up the next morning and get ready
for work or get your kids ready. It takes a
tremendous amount of resilience just to be a human being.

(25:24):
So just acknowledge that and at the same time get
really curious. We are very complex, weird creatures, you know,
Like we're all so nuanced and quirky. Don't think that
you're so unique in your problems, Like you are not.
These these things that you worry about, millions of people

(25:44):
are having the same worry at the same time. That's
actually not what makes you unique. Your problems don't make
you unique. The other beautiful things about you are actually
what makes you unique. Yeah, The healing happens when you
can acknowledge the way in which maybe you've been standing
in your own way and contributing to whatever it is

(26:04):
that you don't want to have in life.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
What's your take on the mindset that a lot of
people can naturally again, I empathize with it too, can
get stuck into, which is like there's no good men left, yeah,
or this idea that all the good men are either
taken or yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:20):
Or they don't exist anymore, emotionally unavailable.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
What happens when you've got into that place and let's
say it's been a valid experience you've had, like the
last three guys you were talking to ghosted you. Yeah, right,
Maybe there was someone who you actually started dating. You
were seeing them and then you asked them an important
question to you or shared something vulnerably and now that
person cut you out. So what do we do with
the mindset? Because it could be valid or it could

(26:45):
be something you came up with, but either way, what
do we do with that?

Speaker 2 (26:48):
I've worked with hundreds of couples. I work with people
at all stages of their relationship life, but a lot
of singles are kind of like, you know, kind of
the loudest because they want love and I understand that,
and so I the first thing they work on is
their mindset and their belief system, and so yes, all
the good ones are taken, and yeah, I want to
validate everyone who've had really hard experiences. So I'm going
to tell story that's okay.

Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:09):
So I was out for dinner recently with some friends,
one man and two women, and we were in New
York City. I really care about this girl, like, you know,
she helps me out, and I'm just like, I want
to get you. I want to get your partner. I like,
what's going on. I wanted to sort of like understand
what was going on with her. I said, well, what
is it, what is it that you believe about men?
She's like, well, I just think all men really just

(27:30):
want one thing sex. I was like, wow, interesting, I
don't really think that's true. And then our guy friend
who was there, was like, that's really not true. But
she has this core belief and it's reinforced because she's
gone on dates with men and they've sort of not

(27:51):
really valued getting to know her and have made advances
that were really inappropriate. But guess what, she gives them
a second date, and then she gives them a second date,
and then it's even more reinforced. And I said to her,
and she wanted me to be really brutally honest with her.

(28:11):
I said, first of all, that's actually not true. Sure
it's true for some, but it's actually not true. There
are actually men out there who will be very attracted
to you in a way that they want to know
more about you, Like they're drawn to you, they're magnetized
to you. Yes, it's attraction in the beginning, it's less,
but they want to they want to know you, and

(28:34):
they want a relationship. There's millions of men single, men
who want love and want a relationship, but you're choosing
the ones who kind of suck and who just want
that from you, And you are actually rewarding their behavior
by giving them another date. So you're part of the problem.

(28:56):
These men are getting rewarded because they're getting some smart
and tent and beautiful woman. They're getting a second date
after they are treating you like they could care less
about you. So you are actually training these men to
do more of what they already do, instead of being like, yeah,
I'm not interested and absolutely never seeing them again, and

(29:19):
deciding to be a little bit higher with your standard
and a little bit stricter with your sort of boundaries
about who you decide to date. I think that's actually
a really good example of how someone can get really
fixated on a belief. And your beliefs are what create
your mindset. Then your reality becomes a reflection of your

(29:40):
belief system, and yet you don't even realize the things
that you're doing to reinforce it. Hence it begins with
you and so having this conversation and also having like
a really good looking partnered man at the table when
I say good looking, I mean on the inside on
the outside, like you know, a great catch, saying absolutely,

(30:01):
that's not true, and then me pointing out her sort
of pattern and all that we were able to kind
of chip away at a belief that was actually the
belief that's keeping her single. Yes, yeah, it's a combination
of things of challenging yourself like is that really true?
Where did I adopt that? How am I reinforcing that?

(30:23):
Could it be true that I've had a couple of
bad experiences? But sometimes that's the way the cookie crumbles,
and that doesn't necessarily mean that it's everyone.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Well, I think until we do that, we also keep
repeating who we're attracted to as well.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Yes, you have to change your type.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Yeah, so often we're attracting and attracted to the same person,
and therefore we keep having the same result and keep
having the same experience of all men just one one thing.
All men are x y Z or whatever, women all
men or anything. Yeah, we start creating a mindset that's
very embroiled in one particular type. But that's because we

(31:01):
do keep going off to the same type.

Speaker 2 (31:03):
So you keep going for maybe the guy who you
think is really smart, looks a certain way, has a
certain job, or she looks a certain way or whatever,
and you're so attached to that that you keep getting
the same thing as opposed to the mindset shift has
to be. Yes, listen, chemistry is important. You've got to
be attracted to the person if you want to sleep
with them, But you want to also train yourself to

(31:23):
be drawn to certain qualities like someone's character, and give
people who you are like, oh, you know, there's something
kind of interesting about them. I don't know if I
feel an immediate spark. Screw the immediate spark. Let's see
if you're actually like who you are and when you're
with this person, and I'm not saying endless amount of

(31:44):
time you can't force chemistry, but it can sometimes turn
on like a light switch after three or four dates.
If when you get home from the date, you're like,
I had a good time, but I'm not sure if
I feel the spark. They're not really my type. That
whole chatter.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Interesting because we talk about the spark in chemistry so much,
and it feels like we've got to talk about it
for so many more years now to undo all the
work that all the movies and that we grew up
on did. Because I was thinking about this recently and
I talked about it in my book, which was this
idea of today. The word going around is someone's aura
or their charisma, and this idea, and I'm like, I

(32:20):
promise you, if you see someone's aura and you're attracted
to it, so is everyone else in the room. So
you're not special, and you don't have a special inclination
towards that person. And chances are that that aura doesn't
make them a good partner. Yes, And so you might
be attracted when you walk in and you hear someone
speak and you're like, Wow, they're so intelligent, they're amazing speaker.

(32:41):
That's not their character. You walk in and you see
someone in their dress really well and they've got all
this swag in this charisma. That doesn't mean they're a
good partner and have good character. You see someone who
has an amazing job and makes all this money and
drives a really great car. That's not their character, doesn't
make them a good partner. And so it's almost like
everything we're attracted to about someone isn't what makes them

(33:03):
a good partner and makes them good at a relationship.
You keep saying the word character, and I agree with you. Conundrum,
what is that because we're not even seeing that. It
seems like we look at how people think and we're
attracted to that. We look at how people look and
we're attracted to that. We look at what people do
and achieve and we're attracted to that, and none of
that makes someone a good partner. No, they're completely different things, right.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
Completely different things. Some of the most intelligent, charming, witty,
beautiful people on the planet are also the most unhealthy
and the ones who will harm you emotionally. I mean,
it really is a cruel joke, isn't it. I'm never
going to suggest that you date someone who you're not
attracted to. I do think though, and I would really

(33:47):
be curious to hear your thoughts day, Like I do
think that with maturity and maybe that's age and wisdom
and that looks different for everyone that you do start
to find other things attractive, like for me personally, so
one who's like really present with me and like a
good listener. It's not a guarantee. If you're really present
with me and a good listener, that doesn't mean I'm

(34:07):
going to be attracted to you. But if you're not
present with me and you're not a good listener and
you're not interested, that's definitely going to be a turn off.
Whereas in the past, I would have felt that in
my body, I would have felt that red flag and
then intuition that would have felt off in my body,
but I would have suppressed this is what And I'm

(34:29):
saying this about myself because I represent so many people
who are I know do this too, because I see
it all the time. Let me just repress that because
I want to be seductive. I want to lure them in.
I want the validation. I think they're hot, you know,
maybe there's something there, And I think with maturity it

(34:51):
translates as actually, no, like that's actually a really big
turn off when we start to have a clearer sense
of self. And I don't believe that anyone is ever
fully whole. Ever, I think that's I think that's the journey,
and I think that's the biggest lie. It's two whole
people coming together. I mean, if that's really the truth,
then we're all screwed, honestly. However, having no sense of

(35:13):
self and no center is problematic too. Life isn't binary.
It's not black or white, but it's we live in
the gray area. But I do think that as we
do get sent a clear understanding of ourselves, meaning what's
important to us? You know, what are the things that
we struggle with? Can we find some sort of self

(35:35):
acceptance even in the midst of our greatest ambivalence towards
the things that really we don't quite like about ourselves.
Can we start to actually hold ourselves in high regard,
even though we are keenly aware of our imperfections and
the ways in which perhaps we're difficulty And to me,
that's healing is really being able to be familiar with

(35:59):
the parts of ourselves that are good and maybe not
so great, and still accept ourselves and see that we
have intrinsic value and that we deserve love. And I
think that the more that we get an understanding of
how to meet our needs better understanding what our needs are,
learning how to stand on our own two feet emotionally
for some people, that's financially whatever it is. Then who

(36:21):
we are attracted to changes, and the things that maybe
we used to be attracted to we're not so attracted to,
or like, I mean, I've definitely in the last couple
of years have been like, oh my god, like that
is the guy totally would have gone for and like what,
But I know that that is not right for me,

(36:43):
So I kind of I just switch it off. I
don't indulge it. It's like I can actually compart to
menalize and be like, yes, totally attracted him, but I
know that that would never be the right partner for me,
So I don't even They're just putting this box over here,
and I don't pursue that. Yes, that does not mean
that I can't be attracted to a really good person.

(37:05):
It just means that we can be attracted to many
different people for many different reasons. And the more that
we heal and grow, the more we find qualities that
are maybe not so you know, charm for it, Yes,
very attractive.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
I feel. One of the challenges from what I'm hearing
from you is that a lot of us in our
thirties are still chasing our sixteen year old crush and
in forties, yes, and so we're wanting a relationship that
we wanted back then, and because it was never satisfied
in our teens or in our twenties, we still spend
our thirties and forties looking for it. Yeah. So when

(37:43):
we're in our teens, all we wanted was pleasure, fun
in chemistry. But now if I actually look at what
I want in my thirties or my forties, it's peace
and it's a connection, and it's a sense of comfort
as opposed to the unease of do we like each
other today? Do we not like each other? So you
asked me earlier or alluded to it. So I'm very

(38:04):
attracted to my wife, but that isn't what's kept us together, right,
That would be a very weak reason to stay with someone,
because you can be attracted to many people again and
again and again. The reason why you stay with someone
is because there's peace, there's no drama. We both forgive quickly,
we both move on.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
First say friendship.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
There's friendship. We deal with problems in a way that
I enjoy. Like, what keeps you together? Isn't that? So? Yes,
I'm still attracted to my wife, but we've been together
for eleven years and married for eight, But that isn't
what's kept us together. What I find attractive has not
necessarily changed. I still find the same things attractive as
I did when we first got together. But what I

(38:45):
need for a long term, long lasting relationship is so
much more than chemist an attraction. I have a friend
that I was talking to the other day and she
said she was out on a date. She got back
from the day and she usually does this. She messaged
me straight way and her messages said, Jay, he was perfect,
he said all the right things. We have the same values,

(39:07):
great family, guy character. I can't believe. I don't want
to go out on a second date with him.

Speaker 2 (39:12):
Did you force her too? I hope you don't.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes, I did. And I was like, wait a minute,
what are you talking about, Like, how does that make
any sense? Yeah? And it was just like because I
was like yes, because of course, your sixteen year old self.

Speaker 2 (39:22):
Yes, wanted this shiny butterflies and almost danger like excitement.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
Yes, correct, And it wasn't there. And so it's so
interesting to me about how we all have to mature
and grow up, yes, to be like, what is my
thirty forty fifty year old self? Whatever age you are, yeah,
mid twenties, whatever, What do I actually want right now?
What do I need right now? Yes? And let me
not still be stuck in a sixteen year old mind,
because we are more than we think we are. And

(39:48):
I've also seen this for people who explored later on
in life. Even friends who because of their cultural tradition,
came out later on in their life, they found that
their first few relationships, even though they were thirty one
years old when they came out, they were still dating
like a sixteen or eighteen year old because it was
their first relationship. So it wasn't a material AIDS thing.

(40:10):
It was a mental and relationship AIDS thing. So if
you're someone who hasn't dated for a long time, yeah,
your age of relationship is actually much younger than you're
actual age.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
That's very well said, and that's very very true. There
are people who are really accustomed to very unhealthy relationships,
a lot of push pull dynamics, there's a lot of toxicity,
and often their physical intimate lives are the glue. Is
the glue that keeps it together, like that's the hot
part of the relationship. And that person then might get

(40:43):
out of it and say, well, I may not ever
have sex like that again, and I tell them, no,
you probably actually won't. But that's okay, because if you
are at least attracted to someone and you feel safe
with them, you can explore so much more. You can
go into the depths of your vulnerability with this person

(41:05):
and then create a sex life that can be very
wonderful with that person, and that's what you want to do.
For some people, they even say, you know what, I
just I've deprioritized that. You know, they've been through so
much crazy in their relationships that they actually have made
the decision. It's not that it's not important, but they've

(41:28):
deprioritized it because they've associated with so much pain. So
everyone is on a different journey. But ultimately the sixteen
year old self, like, you just have to just acknowledge
that person and be like, no, you're not in charge,
because what you want is actually not good for you absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah. One of your hard truths that I loved is
truth number five. You must speak up and tell the truth. Yes,
And I was going to ask you, what's the difference
between telling the truth and being worried about being too
honest too early on? Because it's almost like we want
to share our truth and we want to be honest,
but we don't want to scare them away. We don't
want to overstep. Yeah, it's a fine balance, and I

(42:08):
think it's hard for people, like you said earlier, we
also want them to like us. And yeah, so what
does that look like for me?

Speaker 2 (42:14):
What I tell people, I think you should be as
direct and honest from the very beginning, and I think
that that's actually very attractive. That is different, however, than
sharing your entire childhood pain to a stranger. So that's
not the honesty I'm talking about. Someone has to kind
of earn that information, and I don't think it's appropriate

(42:34):
to share everything like that with a stranger. I think
that has to go a little bit more slowly. There's
a progression to getting to know someone. It's like you
know someone, then you're getting closer, and then you're sharing
a little Then you're starting to open up and be vulnerable.
You don't have to do that on the first date.
But in terms of honesty of what it is that
you really want, what it is that you really need,

(42:55):
I think right from date one, I agree, this becomes
more complicated in when you're actually in a relationship. You know,
I spent many years not really telling the truth. I've
worked with many couples where there's a lot of love,
but they weren't telling the truth. Fear of not being enough,
fear of abandonment, fear of rejection. This is where rejection

(43:16):
really is intense, when we already love the person. Fear
that we might disappoint our partner, fear that they will
never look at us the same way, fear that they
will resent to all of that, and these are very real.
But withholding the truth is what becomes the sickness in
the relationship. And I always say, you don't just have

(43:39):
the hard conversations for you or for your partner. You
do it in service of love. You do it in
service of the relationship. When two people in a relationship
have the mindset, since we've been using that word, have
the mindset of I'm going to protect our relationship, that's
the priority. Sure, you're a priority priority, but what we

(44:01):
are building together that's our baby, Like, that's the priority.
And so if it means having to have really uncomfortable conversations,
if it means having to say something instead of going
into what's familiar, which is stuffing it down and becoming
resentful and then hating your partner for it, It's like,
whenever we have a higher purpose, whenever we feel like

(44:22):
there's something that we're working towards, we will do what
it takes. We'll climb that mountain, we'll transcend that ego,
we'll transcend our fears because we're doing it in service
of something greater than ourselves. And in a relationship, your
relationship has to be the thing that's greater than the
two of you. That's the encouragement that I want to
have people to have to tell the truth, because it

(44:44):
really sucks when you don't. It's very hurtful.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
I love that, and I think the challenge I've seen
with that is our ego. Going back to something you
mentioned right at the beginning, that we want the other
person to make us feel important. We want them to
know that we don't need them, but we really do.
Like it becomes about and I don't want to just

(45:07):
say games because I think everyone thinks they don't play games,
so I don't want to use that language. But but
we all do.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
But we all do.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Yeah, But there's just this feeling of like, I love
what you just said. You said the most important thing
is to protect the relationship, which is beyond both of you.
But most of us can't look beyond ourselves and we
want the other person to look beyond themselves. But when
they don't do it, we're like, well, then why will
I do it? And then it becomes this, you know,
back and forth. So if someone has withheld information or

(45:35):
broken trust in that way, not being honest because of
the fears you mentioned earlier, which I think we're very
well and clearly laid out, how do you repair that?
What does that look like?

Speaker 2 (45:46):
Well, it depends on what the withholding or the lies
are about. Sometimes it's you're withholding a truth of just
how you feel, and that's like not as much of
a betrayal to the other as it is to oneself,
which is I'm not speaking up, I'm not telling you

(46:06):
how this landed in my body for me and how
angry I am at you, because no one will lie
to you more than you'll lie to yourself. And so
a big part of telling the truth begins with telling
the truth to ourselves because oftentimes we don't want to
look at it. It's hard, We suppress it, we don't
want to express it. But how do you repair from that? Well, again,

(46:31):
it depends. Maybe you need a third party understanding you
know what exactly, what were the boundaries that were crossed
to what degree? How much can you find compassion for
the person when they were withholding the truth? How much
can you see that it actually wasn't personal and that
it was just something that they were doing because they

(46:52):
were afraid. You repair with a lot of listening, a
lot of communication, and possibly with a third party. But yeah,
it's not easy, and it depends on the degree of again,
if it's actually a betrayal or this is hard. But
we have to learn to not take so many things
so personally because oftentimes, and I'm not talking about infidelity

(47:16):
and things that are really detrimental to the sanctity of
a relationship, but oftentimes people are doing that and they
just were too afraid. It's like, well, why didn't you
tell me how you feel. You have to tell me
how you feel, and yes, you kind of do, and
you have every right to feel sort of like a
mini betrayal from that, like how can I show up

(47:37):
for you? How can I be in this relationship if
you don't tell me how you feel? And that's very valid,
But if the other person can say, you're right, I
was afraid, this is what I was afraid of, And
then two people are really starting to tell the truth
and now we're really getting into the deep stuff and
getting vulnerable.

Speaker 1 (47:56):
We also expect the other person now to change their habit.
So we're waiting for the one therapy session after which
our partner will be transformed. We're waiting for one coaching
session after which our partner will be the person that
they promised to be. And it almost feels like we're
we just are looking for this moment where they're going

(48:17):
to get it and the penny's going to drop and
they're going to be like this new, profound individual. And
that's just not reality. Like people are going to change
if they want to over a number of years. Yes,
And the key part of that is if they want to,
and a number of years and a number of years
and we're so focused on No, they have to change,
they have to change, They have to change.

Speaker 2 (48:38):
But it begins with you because there's something that has
to change in you as well. Because if there's something
going on in the dynamic and you love this person
and it's a good relationship, otherwise you are contributing in
some way, whether you know it or not, to them
not feeling comfortable to telling the truth. Like people come,
they come to a couple's counseling and a couple's therapy,
they sit down and inevitably both people are thinking the

(49:00):
other person so that I can be okay in this relationship,
when really it's when we change ourselves. We actually can
influence the relationship and the change and the other Not always,
but a lot of the times we can. If you
have the belief they just need to change and be
fixed and we're going to be okay, you are in
for a run for your money because that's actually not true.

(49:22):
Like maybe they do have to change more than you,
but there are things that you need to change in
this dynamic as well.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah, we really convince ourselves, though we do.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
We reach another lie we tell ourselves.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
Yeah, we really convince ourselves it's a one way thing, yeah,
and that if they were to change the entirety of
who they were, and then people say, oh, well, you
keep giving them the benefit of the doubt if you
don't do that, And I think that's the balance that
we're trying to strike is how do you give someone
the benefit of the doubt that it's not personal, and
at the same time hold yourself and them accountable for change.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
If you want your partner to change. That's we're getting
into sticky territory. You have to accept your partner for
who they are, but also you can have expectation that
they want to grow. And look, I mean if we're
not growing in a relationship, meaning trying new things together
and also separately, you know, following our dreams in some

(50:12):
way or you know, even in our own personal lives,
just being willing to pick up a book or try
a new thing, the relationship is going to get very boring.
I mean, that's really what we're trying to do in
so many ways in a relationship is how to combat
in a long term relationship, how do we combat boredom?
And really it starts with are we becoming more interesting?

(50:32):
Are we growing? Are we trying new things? You know,
are we not just are we doing new things together?
But are we doing things individually? But if you fundamentally
think that your partner needs to completely change who they are,
you're not with the right person. But if you can
accept them for who they are but also want them
to evolve and change certain things about themselves, look, many
people will come will have to come to a moment

(50:54):
where they ask themselves, is this enough? You know, like,
can I tolerate this? And all I would say is no,
one is perfect. Everyone's growth is ultimately their own business,
their own evolution, their own business, and people grow in
different ways. But if you want an apple, then you
have to sit under an apple tree, not sit in

(51:15):
like a pear tree and then expect the apple to
come down. So you have to know who your partner
is fundamentally and be okay with that.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Yes, yes, you agree with that? Yeah, well said, yeah, no, absolutely,
I could agree with you more. I think that one
of the reasons we struggle to accept people the way
they are is because we've never taken an interest in
how they became the way they are. We don't actually
have context of why they became this way. That question

(51:47):
of what happened to you, how did you end up here?
And when you start uncovering all of that, you start
realizing it's so not about you, and it's all about them.
And by the way, the same is true for you.
And how did you become this way? And how did
you expect all of this to be this way? And
so I feel like that You've talked about this a
few times today, this idea of curiosity, learning about your partner,
understanding how they got there, and all of a sudden,

(52:10):
when you understand that, you go, oh my gosh, I
get it now, And now I understand how long it
will take to unwire or rewire that as well, if
they want to, and if they notice it. As opposed
to this idea of well, I snapped my fingers, and
you should get it. You should know how I feel immediately. Yes,
I agree with you completely. I don't think there's at

(52:30):
least in my relationship. I learned that the smart way
to be early on was respecting my partner's values and
having her respect mine, and not trying to change our
values because we couldn't. Like I don't think I could
change deeply.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
My core value, your core ones.

Speaker 1 (52:52):
No, I can't, And if someone was trying to change them,
I'd find that very uncomfortable. And if I was trying
to change theirs, I'd find that very own comfortable. And
so I'm with you on the idea of you've got
to accept them the way they are, and if you don't,
then that's okay too. It's okay to move on and leave.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Yes it is, or you know, but always know that,
like you know, there's no one who's actually perfect. Yes,
you know, that does not exist. And I think that
I do think that people know that intellectually, Jay, but
I don't. But I still think that a lot of
people expect perfection in others. You know, one mistake that
many people have made is it's okay that I'm flawed,

(53:33):
but unconsciously I'm looking for this person who's so perfect,
who's going to actually make up for the deficits that
I have in my in my personality and make up
for the deficits that are actually inside of me.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
I think we've got so disconnected, going back to it
begins with you. It's just we've got so disconnected from
knowing ourselves and knowing what's right for us and what's
good for us.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:56):
I feel like the amount of people that are just
constantly seeking advice from anyone and everyone in their life
and not listening to them and not listening to themselves.
And you have one text thread over here with like
nine girlfriends, and then you have you post it on
Instagram and say I'm dealing with this on my stories
just to your private friends, and then you reach out

(54:16):
to your family and your parents, and so you're talking
to like twenty seven non experts about something in your life,
and no wonder you're confused because everyone has their own opinion,
someone saying give them another chance, someone saying, oh leave them,
someone you know, and you've just got these You've also
got actions to take without understanding. Yes, And I wanted

(54:37):
to ask you, if there is no the one, how
do you know who to focus on? How do you
know who to kind of make it work with?

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Number one? The person who treats you well. And that
doesn't mean I think that you know, when we're in
a relationship for long enough, we will unconsciously hurt each
other's feelings, and sometimes we will, even the most mindful
of us will behave or say something or do something
that's not filled with a lot of mindfulness. You know
will act unconsciously, but fundamentally, you want the person who

(55:11):
treats you well, who respects you, who you feel good around.
You feel like you can safely express an opinion. You
feel like you can be yourself with them. That's so important.
I think that is probably one of the most underrated
criteria for choosing a partner is can you really be

(55:32):
yourself with them? I'm not talking about be your bad self,
your lower self with them, but can you actually be
who you are? Do you feel comfortable in your skin
when you're with this person or do you have to
hide parts of yourself so that they can accept you?
So I think that's the most important thing. And so

(55:52):
someone with whom you share values, someone with whom can
you agree on what a life well lived is, because
you can have there could be a wonderful connection with someone,
But to them, they want to live a nomadic lifestyle
and you're like, no, no, no, I want to root
and have children. Like it's not going to work. You
might have a great love affair, but you're never going

(56:13):
to work long term. So agreeing on what a life
well lived is there's some compatibility and just in terms
of core values. I think that's incredibly important because when
in the duration of your relationship things get really hard.
Life happens, family members die, maybe illness happens, money, whatever

(56:33):
it is, it's your values. It's not your sex life.
It's your values. Like as you were saying that, there's
not attraction or chemistry, your values that are going to
really keep you together. And I think it's you know,
that person who if you had to be stranded on
a desert island like that would be the person you'd
want to choose. And that's how you know, and all

(56:55):
their little eccentricities that annoy you and like maybe they're
not as neat in the kitchen as you would like,
or maybe they're not exactly the height, or you know,
maybe they've got some stuff that like you can go
down the list and be like, that's not my preference.
Those are the things you need to tolerate and accept
because they have the other things of values. You enjoy

(57:18):
being touched by them, you enjoy kissing them like there's
attraction there. You agree on what a life well lived is,
and you really feel comfortable being who you are when
you're with them.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Does the one that got away actually exist.

Speaker 2 (57:33):
I don't know. I think that's a story that people
tell themselves.

Speaker 1 (57:36):
Why do we do that?

Speaker 2 (57:37):
What I've seen is we've made some poor choices, and
so that we look back at that person and we
romanticize them and pedestal them and actually see them maybe
better than what they were, better for us, and so
we get into our heads and we romanticize them. So
I'm not quite sure. What I do know for sure
is that if you tell yourself that story, well then
you're just like sealing your fate, that there's just no

(57:59):
one else out there for you. And to me, that's
part of the whole romanticism theory that keeps us very
stuck and suffering.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
I agree. Yeah, it's almost like that nostalgia effect. Yes,
you look back on everything and it was always so
much better, I know, And if you actually went back there,
you'd be like, this was the worst thing. Just go
and find an old journal when you're a kid or
a dary whatever and look back at it and be like, oh,
life wasn't as great as I pretend to think it
was exactly, And nostalgia just makes everything seem so much

(58:29):
more romantic and beautifully colored.

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Quite manipulative, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
It really is. It's what you said, it's a protective
mechanism of oh, things used to be better, and you
know that's a safe space, and I feel good. But
actually it's not really protecting you because it's like you said,
it's manipulating you into unhealthy belief. You have a beautiful
quote in the book where you say, stay in your head,
and your relationship is dead. And I think that's partly it.

(58:55):
That we stay in our head in relationships in a
lot of ways. Some of them can be negative thoughts.
Some of them can be doubts, some of them can
be questioned, some of them can be you know, ruminating
on the past. Yes, how do we get out of
our heads and get out of those repetitive thoughts? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (59:13):
I love talking about this because I'm someone I tend
to lean sort of intellectual, and when I am not centered,
I leaned, as a lot of people do, and a
lot of women these days anxious. So I can get
like very like ruminating, analytical and all that. So I
feel very equipped. And also when I work with so
many people, I mean the stories that they tell themselves

(59:36):
about themselves and about their partner that's not rooted in
the truth because they're not communicating. I mean, that's the
stories in our heads that ruin relationships. So how do
we get out of our heads. Well, we start telling
the truth and we start communicating. Like that's like the
low hanging fruit, Like build enough self awareness, and this
picks practice where you can say, oh, I'm in my

(59:57):
head right now, I am getting lost in a story
right now, because it's a habit. And some people really
have a bad habit of getting lost in such a
story about another person and then get themselves so worked up.
And so what you have to do is keep practicing.
That's that storyteller in me right now, that's that storyteller.
Maybe something else is true? Could something else be true?

(01:00:19):
Let me communicate. Getting out of our heads is also
getting in our bodies. So exercise, movement, breath work, going
for a long walk, having a long healing conversation with
a friend, doing something where you're social. If we're too
much in isolation and we're spending too much time with ourselves,
we're too much in our heads. So it's a really
beautiful strategy to get out of our heads. When we

(01:00:39):
see a friend or two, or we even go to
something that we're invited to and just because then our
attention is outwardly focused. Like right now, our attention is
outwardly focused. Yes, we have to go a little inward
to kind of think. You have to go inward to
kind of think of the question, right, I have to
go a little bit inward to kind of give you
an answer. But we're very because we're having this like commnsation.

(01:01:00):
It's just you and me, and the lights are on
us and the cameras are rolling. We're outward focused, and
when we're alone, everything is so inward focused. So moving
our bodies is always the easiest, fastest way to get
out of our heads. It's really and it's daily movement.
It's like, oh, in my head, I'm going to go
for a walk. Oh I'm going to have in my head.
Maybe I have to take a cold shower, get out

(01:01:22):
of this state. Maybe I have to talk to someone.
But it starts with the awareness of you know, my mind.
All of our minds can be become battlefields. Our mind
can be a beautiful thing, but if we don't stand
guard of our mind, we are going to be in
serious trouble. And no one is invulnerable to that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
As we're talking about it, one thing that came to
my mind is just how we're really focused on starting
things as humans, and we're good at reacting to when
things end, and we're really complacent and ignorant in the middle. Yeah. Right,
we've talked a lot today about dating and then we're
talking about when things go wrong, and maintenance is not

(01:02:01):
something we find interesting exactly right, It's so true. Yeah,
it's not something as humans that we like maintaining a home,
like building a home, designing a home, that's cool. Yeah,
when if you leave something and you're finding something new,
that's that's interesting. It's something to pay attention to. Sure,
But maintenance is something that we ignore so much. And
I was thinking if you could recommend a reflection someone

(01:02:23):
could do with their partner right now, whether they're stuck
or maybe it's like, what if something feels almost right
but not fully right, as in there's nothing wrong? Huh,
what do you do in that situation? Because I think
a lot of people find themselves there where it's like
they're in that maintenance phase. You're not getting married, you're
not you know, you're not having the big moment, and

(01:02:44):
you're not you're not kind of ending it like there's
nothing there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Yeah, but you're just kind of like coasting, maybe borderline
a little bit bored or complacent.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
So like let's say this couple has kids, stop making
your kid it's the only focus of your life. You
have to your children actually want you to focus on
each other. That's what's going to be really good. Like
you are benefiting your children's mental health and lives when
you are connecting with each other. So that's important. Shake

(01:03:17):
things up a little bit, whether that's individually or together.
Go on a date, try something new, bring some novelty,
whether that's in the bedroom or completely outside of the bedroom.
Take some time to really connect with each other. Maybe
it's sitting down and having a meal and just being like, Okay,
we're going to put the phones away and we're going
to really connect and maybe we're going to talk about

(01:03:39):
something a little bit deeper today. And I went to
I had dinner over to friends last night and it
was so wonderful, Like we just went into really deep stuff.
I mean also sprinkled in with a little fun and
silly stuff, but we just went into very deep stuff
and it's like, wow, this is so refreshing to be
around people where you could be vulnerable and open. And
I think couples kind of you I want to be

(01:04:00):
doing that all the time because you need a little levity.
So this is an interesting thing as a couple. Maybe
you have to do a temperature check, like do we
need a little bit of levity? Like do we need
a little bit of lightness? Have we been too bogged
down with their routines? Are we talking about the relationship
too much and we need to have some fun? Then
do something new, Do something fun, Do something that you

(01:04:23):
would have done in the first three months of your
relationship a few years in and watch the change happen
in your relationship and build it into your weekly routine
or at least your monthly routine. If your relationship is
kin you're feeling a little disconnected, right, So it's not
the lack of levity, but there's the lack of connection.
Get vulnerable. Maybe maybe connect in the bedroom or outside

(01:04:46):
of the bedroom, have a real heart to heart. Maybe
do something new that's also very bonding. Touch each other
and I'm not even talking in a sexual way, but
are you touching each other? Like do you put a
hand the leg or on the shoulder. Are you being
present with each other? Again? This is the part that's mindfulness,

(01:05:06):
and it really sometimes it's so little that has a
huge ripple effect, and it's just a matter of, oh,
this is what we need, and one of you take
the leadership role in that way, be like, Okay, let's
do this. I really want to do this. It shouldn't
be framed as like, oh, you know, we need this.
Otherwise it's just like I would really love this. Wouldn't

(01:05:29):
this be so lovely if And sometimes it's just let
me change something in me. Maybe it's not even a
conversation with your partner, it's how you're showing up. Maybe
you've grown a little complacent towards the relationship, towards your life,
towards anything. Maybe you need to shake things up a
little bit inside yourself and bring a little bit more

(01:05:50):
of the part of you, because we all have so
many different parts to our psyche and our personality. Maybe
bring a little bit more of what you brought in
the beginning of the relationship now.

Speaker 1 (01:06:00):
And that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Kind of always does the trick if people are willing switching.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
From going back to the beginning of the relationship, looking
at the end of a relationship. Yeah, if someone's broken
up with you, what's the best self reflection exercise that
you'd recommend to someone If someone's just broken up.

Speaker 2 (01:06:17):
With them, Well, if they're just in the shock and
the pain of just broken up after they air, yeah
I would. Yeah, I would say after that because in
the beginning, it's more just like how can I survive
and who's going to support me? Right, But when you're
sort of out of that initial shock of pain, you're
still hurt and you're still sad, but you're ready to

(01:06:37):
self reflect. One of the hardest things to do yet
most important things to do, and maybe you'll never one
hundred percent get clear, is how did I contribute to
whatever did not work? And how did they contribute? It's
so hard not to go into the blame game and
just blame them for everything and blame ourselves for anything,

(01:06:58):
but true self when it comes to the end of
a relationship is can I have some clarity around some
of the patterns that I have that have contributed to
whatever didn't work? And can I get clear about what
they did and what their patterns were that really didn't work?
And that's a process, and it's a journey of self reflection.

(01:07:19):
But I think that is absolutely important to start with,
what are some of the ways in which maybe I
have contributed to what didn't work?

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
There?

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Is there something in my self esteem that needs to
be worked on? Is there something that I learned from
childhood that maybe isn't working? And then to add to
that is what did I contribute that really worked? What
are my strengths in relationship? Because you have to reflect
on that too. How was I really really loving? Maybe

(01:07:48):
I was too loving to a fault, but I'm still loving,
you know, And I'd rather be too loving to a
fault than not loving at all, you know. So those
are some of the questions that we need to ask ourselves,
and those are hard. You know, I've gone through tremendous
heartbreak and just having to go through that, but I
was so hell bent on I don't want to this
to ever happen again.

Speaker 1 (01:08:08):
So what do I have to do?

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
And look? Accountability in a relationship wherever the relationship is,
and the beginning, middle, or end is the most important thing.
If you cannot take responsibility for being another human being
in this dynamic, then you are essentially a nightmare to
be in a relationship with and I hate to be
so blunt, but it's true. Accountability is everything. That's not

(01:08:30):
about taking all the blame, but we have to be
able to own our stuff. And when two people are
doing that, I really think that there's tremendous healing that
can happen between two people if they're willing.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
To do that. Killian, thank you so much for your
insights today. It's been really wonderful having this back and
forth with you of just kind of thinking about all
the different iterations, moments, phases of a relationship. And we
end every episode of On Purpose with a final five Yes,
fast five. Every question has to be answered in one
word to one sentenced maximum. Okay, so Jillian and Toureki,

(01:09:05):
these are your fast five. The first question is what
is the best love advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 2 (01:09:13):
No one is perfect. Figure out what you can tolerate
and what you can't tolerate.

Speaker 1 (01:09:16):
I like that second question is what is the worst
relationship advice you've ever heard?

Speaker 2 (01:09:21):
You don't have to lean on your husband when you're
going through a miscarriage. You just lean on your mother
and your sister. That was the worst advice that I
got from a therapist someone said that to you. Yeah,
a therapist said.

Speaker 1 (01:09:32):
That, let's take a detour to focus on that list. Yeah,
how did that feel?

Speaker 2 (01:09:39):
Very confusing. I understand when you're in a relationship that
your partner should not be your only confidante. That it's
really important to have some community or other people around
you that you go to, Like you don't have to
go to your partner for every single thing. Yeah, to
have other sources. But if you're going through the miscarriage

(01:10:00):
and you can't lean on your partner, to me, that
sounds insane. But I think her intention was don't lean
on him for everything. And so I took that on as,
oh my god, you know, I'm being too dependent or
to doing being too codependent, And it was very confusing.
And it was only later on when I started to
do this work where I recognize that that was the

(01:10:22):
worst piece of advice I've ever received ever from anyone.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
And I've especially in that situation, and.

Speaker 2 (01:10:27):
Especially in that situation, and I could not disagree with
it more. That's exactly who you should be leaning on,
and it's exactly who you should feel safe leaning on.

Speaker 1 (01:10:35):
Question number three. One of your hard truths is number eight,
no one is coming to save you. What do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:10:44):
Save yourself and choose someone who's going to have your
back while you do that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:51):
The right answer? And question number four truth and number
nine you say you must make peace with your parents.
Why is that so important?

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
What I will say first, because I think this is important.
I don't in the book. I do say if you
were sexually abused or terribly abused, I would no way
tell someone to make peace with your parent. What I
would encourage them to do is to figure out how
to become the hero of their story rather than just
the survivor. Even if you never speak to your parent again,
you have to figure out a way to question the

(01:11:23):
story that you have about them so that you are
looking at them and thinking of them through the lens
of your adult self and not your child's self, because
if you don't, that is going to infiltrate your romantic
life and cause you a lot of problems. I wish
I was one word, but the time absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
And fifth and final question, if you could create one
law that everyone in the world had to follow, what
would it be?

Speaker 2 (01:11:47):
Oh? I normally say something, and then later I'm explained
that one lare Oh my god, letting go is so
much easier than clinging. Letting go is so much easier
than clinging. It's really hard, but your life will be
so much better than clinging if you learn to just

(01:12:09):
let things be.

Speaker 1 (01:12:11):
Jill Interrechti, thank you so much. The book is called
It Begins with You, The Nine Hard Truths about Love
that will change your life. You can grab your copy
right now. You heard about some of the hard truths
in this conversation, but I hope that you'll dive into
the book to learn and understand so much more. It's
out on January fourteenth. I'm sure this will be out

(01:12:31):
while you're watching this. The book will be out already
or very very soon. Julian, thank you so much for
coming on on purpose. Thank you for sharing so wonderfully.
And I'm excited for people to connect with your content
online and continue to follow along to see how much
more they can learn about love. And thank you for
reminding us all that it begins with you.

Speaker 2 (01:12:50):
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Yeah, thank you so great.

Speaker 2 (01:12:53):
Thank you you too.

Speaker 1 (01:12:54):
If you love this episode, you're going to love my
conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get up over
your ex and find true love in your relationships.

Speaker 3 (01:13:03):
People should be compassionate to themselves that extend that compassion
to your future self, because truly extending your compassion to
your future self is doing something that gives him or
her a shot at a happy and a peaceful life

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