Kate Cassidy EXCLUSIVE: Sharing Her Last Conversation with Liam Payne and The Real Story Behind Their Relationship

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 2 (00:48):
It's just so hard to process that you thought we
had all this time and it was just taken away.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Breaking news. Former One Direction thinger Liam Payne has.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
Been found dead at a hotel in Buenos Aires in Argentina.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
I wanted to ask you why you felt that you
wanted to come here to speak about this and why
right now I want to talk about how you found
out on the day that we sadly lost Liam.

Speaker 5 (01:15):
The day left Argentina was the last day I was
able to touch Liam, to hug Liam in that moment.
I still don't believe it to be true. I was
supposed to be trying on my wedding dress. I wasn't
supposed to be wearing black dress.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
What was the last conversation you'd had with Liam?

Speaker 5 (01:31):
One thing that really helps me day to day is
reading letters that Liam has left me.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
And I believe you brought one of those letters that
you talk could share.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Yeah, the number one health and wellness podcast, Jay Sheidy,
Jay Sheddy.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
Shed Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I am
so grateful that you've tuned in today to listen, learn
and grow. We have built this platform as a place
of happiness, of health, and of healing. And today I'm
really truly grateful because I have the honor of sitting
down with Kate Cassidy, the girlfriend to internationally beloved artist

(02:18):
and former One Direction member Liam Paine. And Liam's voice, talent,
and charisma left an indelible mark on millions, and his
sudden passing on October sixteenth left the world mourning a
true star. Nearly three years ago, while working as a
waitress in Charleston, which we'll hear about more Fate introduced
Kate to Liam. Kate is here to share her story

(02:41):
of love, loss and the strength to move forward. Please
give a warm welcome to Kate Cassidy, Kate, Welcome to
On Purpose. I want to start by just checking with
you and asking you how you're doing today.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Thanks for having me. I think that's the hardest question
to answer. There's really no right answer to that. I
think the best thing I can say to that is
I'm doing okay. I have my harder days and I
have my better days. I think each day it doesn't
get so much better, but each day I'm just trying

(03:17):
my best, and I think even just trying my best
makes me feel that little bit better. This has just
been such a rollercoaster of emotions, and I'm really just
really trying my best. I don't, like I said, that's
the hardest question to really put into words to answer.

Speaker 1 (03:33):
No, and I wanted I wanted to start off by
and I was sharing this with you when you first arrived,
but I wanted to share my prayers. My condolence is
to yourself, to Liam, his family, friends, the fans all
across the world, like just my prayers for him and
for everyone who loves him because it's such a loss
that you feel. I remember the day it happened, and

(03:55):
me and my whole team there was it was. It
was something that impacted everyone. And I wanted to ask
you why you felt that you wanted to come here
to speak about this, and why right now and why
this was appropriate timing for you to want to share
some of this story.

Speaker 3 (04:09):
It's been, just like I said, a roller coaster.

Speaker 5 (04:12):
And you give this such a sense of comfort, and
I do want to be able to use my voice
and be able to share my story as this has
impacted me so much and changed my life forever, and
you give this sense of comfort and sincerity that I
genuinely feel like I would be just you know, And
I am so comfortable speaking and sharing my story with you.

(04:34):
And if there's any opportunity and chance for me to
help other people that are dealing with grief, mental health,
anything like that, I really want to be able to
be able to help. And even though right now I'm
not an expert, I don't think anybody can really be
an expert at that. But I'm going through this day
by day and I'm teaching and learning, you know, teaching
myself how to better myself, and I think if there's

(04:56):
if I could give anybody advice and help other people,
then I would love to be able to be able
to do that.

Speaker 3 (05:02):
Well.

Speaker 1 (05:02):
I want to acknowledge how brave that is and how
commendable that is. And again, I'm grateful that you're here
and giving us the opportunity to hopefully help so many
people as well, and hopefully do it from a place
of peace for yourself. So the last few months for
you have been drastically different and changed your life, as

(05:22):
you mentioned just now, But before we dive into that,
I wanted to focus on who Kate was before Liam,
before this, so that we can understand you a bit
more and your journey. So talk to me about Kate.

Speaker 5 (05:35):
So grew up in New Jersey. I actually am half British.
My mom's from England, so I do have a ton
of family in England.

Speaker 1 (05:43):
We're in England.

Speaker 3 (05:44):
She grew up in a town called Edmonton. I'm not
too familiar.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
That is so close to where I grew up. Really, yeah,
if we're talking about the same Edmonton, Yeah, I do.

Speaker 5 (05:52):
Have some family in England on my mom's side. Grew
up in New Jersey after I graduated high school, I
kind of immediately moved out of the house pretty much.
I went to a college in South Carolina called Coastal
Carolina University, graduated there. After four years, moved to Charleston,
South Carolina. I think after college, I wasn't too sure

(06:12):
what I wanted to do with work or with even
my life. I think it was still kind of that,
you know, I went to college. I had such a
great experience. I met so many great people. I'm so
glad I have a degree, and I didn't know though,
what I wanted to do. Some people obviously go to
college for you know, law school, medical school. They kind
of know what path they're taking. I kind of went
to college just saying, Okay, I know at some point

(06:34):
it's going to click, like I know what I want
to do. But I still didn't really understand what I
wanted to do in life. So moved to Charleston with
a bunch of my friends. My friends were all kind
of in the same boat too. We were all just
kind of like, all right, let's just take one day
at a time. We all graduated college. We're all kind
of almost in a way like lost. We don't know
what to do college is over?

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Now?

Speaker 5 (06:50):
What Now it's like the real life, the real big
girl life. And moved to Charleston all together, and took
some time there just to focus on myself, and I
ended up a couple months later getting this waitressing job
at this restaurant, lounge bar place, and that's where, on
my second week of working, I met Liam and that

(07:10):
day is you know, has changed my life forever, and
it was you know, I'm such a believer and everything
happens for a reason, and it's I've talked about this
previously in the past, but it's very it's just so
weird how sometimes the dots all connect. Because I tried
so hard to get off work already my second week,
I told my friend because my friend was the one
who owned the restaurant, and I told her, I honestly
want to I wanted to balance my social life with

(07:32):
work life. So I just said to her, I want
to work every other weekend. Because it was only a
weekend shift. It was Thursday to Sunday. So I told her,
I want to work every other weekend. And then week
two came about and she put my name on the
schedule and I remember calling her and I was like, wait,
I thought I wasn't working back to back weekends, and
she was like, we really need you, like.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
It's just our second week of opening. It was brand new.

Speaker 5 (07:51):
I tried so hard to get off and I was like,
you know what, Okay, fine, So I went in and
I met Liam that same night. And it's just crazy
because if I did get off that I never would
have met him.

Speaker 3 (08:00):
So yeah, I met him that night. I was his
server and it all started from there.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Thank you for sharing that. I wanted people to have
context of you know, where you've come from as well,
and I can't believe me and your mum have Edmonton
in common. That Yeah, that's still blowing my mind. I
read somewhere that you said that you had a crush
on Liam ever since you were ten years old, and
that you even felt that you would definitely meet at
some point, Like there was that yeah you had.

Speaker 5 (08:25):
I think a woman always has a strong intuition, and
I think for me, I was a one direction fan
and specifically Liam. I remember even a couple years ago,
like a fan dug up this old Facebook post and
it was of me from like twenty ten, and it
was I think it said like Ferzane comment for Liam,
and I commented on my own post Liam with an

(08:47):
explanation point. And I really just feel like even the
way that me and Liam met, I just think that
the fact that it was my second week of work,
Liam is in town in this kind of random city,
just randomly, and that you know, I tried to get
off work and I happened to be his server, and
then we just clicked immediately. And just the fact that

(09:08):
even I have all this background and I'm familiar with England,
with London, and just we just hit it off the
bat immediately. And I really do believe that people are
meant to meet in this life, and I do believe.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
That we were. We were like soule connections.

Speaker 5 (09:21):
We had that connection because instantly, as soon as we
started talking, we had this connection more.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
It was just so easy.

Speaker 5 (09:26):
I mean, I'm not going to lie. Of course I
was nervous. I was a fan, so I of course
was so nervous to meet him. I remember walking up
to his table, my heart was pounding and I was
kind of just like what am I doing? Like this
is terrifying, Like Hi, I'm Kate, nice to meet you.
It was terrifying, but he was just such a humble,
kind person. You would never even know that he was

(09:47):
this huge worldwide pop star.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
You would never know.

Speaker 5 (09:50):
And he just had this sort of sparked him and
he was just so kind, just so humble, so different
than anybody I've ever met, and just immediately it was
just like just a spark that we were just a
conversation just flowed so easily. And it's just but I
didn't think, of course that, oh, conversation's going great, I'm
gonna have a future with this man. I didn't think

(10:12):
anything about I just thought, this guy's really great. This
is so cool to meet him. I had his posters
on my want when I was ten years old. I know,
drew photos of him when I was ten years old.
So I didn't know it was going to go anywhere,
and the obviously it did.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Okay, thank you so much for sharing that, And I
want to hear a bit about how did that evolve
into this beautiful relationship. I've seen videos of both of
you dancing together and attending events together and whatever else
it may be like to talk to me about those
early months of dating and how were you managing to
spend time together with his busy schedule, where you were living.

(10:46):
How did that all work?

Speaker 5 (10:47):
He did end up extending his flight a couple of
days in Charleston. I think he was supposed to leave
the next the following day, and he ended up extending
it for three nights, so he was there for a
couple of days. We spent day and night together. Immediately
immediately just clicked so well. We would go to the beach,
go to dinners, lunches, we went bowling, we would do
all these Charleston tours. We just had this click and

(11:08):
it was just so normal, you know, and it was nice.
I felt like I was his tour guid. He's never
been to Charleston before. I was able to show him around.
He's been all over the world to all these different places,
and it was like I was able to show him
the one place he hasn't been to.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
So it kind of gave me that upperhand.

Speaker 5 (11:22):
I was like, oh, I feel kind of says cool
that I'm able to show him this new place.

Speaker 3 (11:26):
And he loved it.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
He loved Charleston. I ended up going flying out to
England to London about like a week later, and once
again just inseparable, I mean, hit it off where it's
like we were obviously I was staying with him, but
we just the minute we'd wake up, we would just
plan all these things throughout the day to do all
these things, and it just felt right, is how I

(11:47):
would describe it. It was just something that it was
so fun and I could tell like I brought out
this light in him where he was just so like
he was just happy, and I think that I saw
that in him, and we both brought out this light
in each other.

Speaker 3 (12:01):
I was happy.

Speaker 5 (12:02):
He showed me this type of fairy tale life and
I showed him a sense of normality, which I think
is you know, balance is a key in a lot
of relationships. And I think that it was just so
cool to experience so many things I never would have
thought I would experience, or places I never thought i'd
be able to go to in the world that he
took me after being with him for two months, not
even and it's just it was crazy, it was insane,

(12:24):
and I was so grateful and blessed to be able to,
you know, experience that with somebody that I loved and love.

Speaker 1 (12:30):
How did it feel like going from I have a
crush on this person to oh, my gosh, you're my boyfriend,
Like what was that realization?

Speaker 5 (12:36):
Like at first, it was so surreal. I would wake
up every day and just I would even say it
to him. I'm not really a shy person, so I
would say to him, I can't even believe me and
you are together right now.

Speaker 3 (12:47):
Like I was a fan. I was a fan. I
would always say these things to him.

Speaker 5 (12:50):
It's not like I would run into my closet and
like scream out of excitement. I was honest with I
just was always, you know, saying to him, I can't
even believe it. But I think that it got to
a point where it just became so normal and it
just felt so normal, like you just put all that
past you and you know it's still of course, I
would always say to him, you are the coolest person

(13:12):
I've ever met in my life, and it's just such
an honor to be a part of your life. It's
he was the best person I've ever met. And I
think that one day it just kind of okay, this
is reality. It doesn't you know, fame doesn't change somebody
or you know, in his it didn't change him. So
it just felt so normal and just felt so right.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Yeah, that's so beautiful to hear. And what was it
like with the media attention on your relationship in those
early days? How did you experience that? It was.

Speaker 5 (13:43):
Something I've never experienced before in my life, of course,
and it was definitely difficult, i'd say in the beginning.
I think also with boy bands and you know, guy
like male pop stars, I think they have this fan
base that, of course, so many girls are so protective
over and I understand that. I mean, this was one

(14:03):
direction was a part of so many you know, people's childhoods,
and I me being one of those, so I totally
understand that. But I think when we first kind of
were spotted out in public, and I think it might
have been maybe our first Instagram post together or something,
I was just getting flooded with hate just like you're like,

(14:25):
you know, just just being the new girlfriend, kind of
like this isn't going to last.

Speaker 3 (14:29):
Who even are you? Where do you come from?

Speaker 5 (14:32):
Like just nitpicking everything about me, just my appearance down
to everything. Just you know, people would dig up all
these old photos of me from like twenty twenty, you know,
and just be like, she looks so different than she
looks now, Comparing photos and it was just it was.

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Just hard to see that.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
And Liam, you know, Liam would say to me like,
I'm I'm so like he would feel at Folly'd be like,
I feel so bad that you're that you have to
put up with this and deal with this like this,
you know, like if this isn't for you, And I
was like, I don't care what people think at all
because I love you. So if people think that our
relationship is fake or staged, or if they think I
wear too much makeup or like look ten times older,

(15:13):
like or just have these little nippicking opinions about me, like,
at the end of the day, nobody knows our relationship
like me and Liam.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
So I never let it get to me.

Speaker 5 (15:22):
He never let it get to him, and he showed
me that it's not don't let people's opinions get to you.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 5 (15:28):
It's always going to behind the computer screen and it
shouldn't let it affect your day or your life. And
I completely agree with that. And I try, you know,
I try to have the thickest strong of skin, but
I will say sometimes like one negative comment will weigh out.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Ten positive comments.

Speaker 5 (15:43):
No matter how strong you are, you see that one
really negative comment, but then you see ten really kind,
beautiful comments on top of that. The only one you're
going to think about all of that day is the
one negative one you're not going to think about like
the kind ones.

Speaker 1 (15:56):
No, it's so true, and it's even harder when it's
almost like a life that you came into because it
wasn't the life that you had. Yeah, it's extremely thick
skinned for you to be able to say, I love you,
so I don't care about it. But like you said,
sometimes things got through. How did you navigate that together?
How did you navigate that personally? Because like you said,
there's always that one comment that kind of squeezes through

(16:19):
that thick skin that we have that does affect us,
and we all go through it. I know I go
through it. How did you navigate that? How did you
navigate that together?

Speaker 5 (16:27):
That was definitely all Liam for me. He almost like
guided me into this way. He just built me up.
He made me feel like this amazing human and this
he grew up in the limelight of fame since the
young age of fourteen fifteen years old, so he's had
over at the time, you know, almost fifteen years of
experience of this and He just completely always said, you're

(16:48):
going to get hate no matter what, You're going to
get negativity.

Speaker 3 (16:51):
It doesn't matter what you do, he just always said.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
And I would see it because people wouldn't always be
so nice to him, and I would see him just
brushing it off. And he really you know, sometimes I
could see that one comment that would get to him,
but barely.

Speaker 3 (17:04):
He would just brush it off and just who cares.

Speaker 5 (17:07):
And he really taught me that it's not important this
one comment, And he really did train me in a
way to realize that life is more than that, and
not to let one negative comment affect your.

Speaker 3 (17:18):
Entire day or your life.

Speaker 5 (17:19):
That's amazing to focus on the good things, focus on
the positivity from it, not the negativity.

Speaker 1 (17:23):
That's that's incredible to hear. I mean about his character
and just how comforting and loving he was and supportive
he was was as you just mentioned there that he
sometimes received it too. You know, obviously from my outside perspective,
it's like you look at someone like him who's so beloved,
so appreciated, admired, What was he experiencing, what was he

(17:44):
what was he going through?

Speaker 5 (17:46):
I think a lot of the negativity and it always
comes with fame, Like I said before, but he would
just almost have got to a point where a lot
of the things that he would do, he was getting
this negativity brought towards him and it was just so
uncalled for and it's just so mean and verticuoling and cyberbullying.
And he could be out somewhere wearing something and people

(18:08):
would say he's trying too hard, or he could post
something and people would say, oh, like, you know, he
thinks he's all that, just such mean things that And
like I said before, he was the most humble person
you know. And that's how I would say to him too,
like these people are just behind a computer screen. Don't
let this affect you. And he didn't need to hear
that from me. I mean, he's been dealing with this

(18:29):
fifteen years. But yeah, he just for pretty much anything
that he did, he was living under this microscope. People
would love it, people would hate it. He would wear
something specific and people would say, oh, my god, he's
dressed great, but then people would be like, what the
hell is he wearing? He looks so whatever, And anything
he did, pretty much he'd get that mixture of love
and heat, and I think that's with a lot of

(18:51):
people that are living in the limelight. I think no
matter what they do, will get that mixture of love
and hate, no matter what, doesn't matter who you are,
what you do, they will always get that. But I
think he did such a good job of being able
to just push that negativity aside and just focus on
the good and the positivity. I mean, he was so
talented and he knew that, and he knew that, and

(19:11):
he should know that and just not let those comments,
those hurtful comments, ruin his day, because there's no point.

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(20:45):
seems like a humble, wonderful, kind, giving human being And
at the same time, was he already struggling with addiction
and mental health challenges when you both met or was
that something that you saw develop.

Speaker 5 (20:58):
He's been pretty open about his mental health, and I
think it's something he struggled with for definitely a good
amount of time even before we were together.

Speaker 3 (21:09):
It was no secret.

Speaker 5 (21:10):
And I think that you know, with mental health and addiction,
it really is you just never really know what way
it's going to go, and it's just a flip that
can switch. I think that for him, Yeah, he experienced
struggles with mental health for years before dating me as well,
and I think that he did struggle with addiction, and

(21:35):
I think again, he was pretty open about that. And
like I said, with mental health, it's kind of the
same thing where it's like you addiction is something where
obviously you don't want to have that addiction, and it's
something you know, if he could have chose to just
be sober the rest of his life, he would have been.

(21:55):
It's just something that I at first, I think, did
didn't fully understand. I don't have addiction that runs in
my family. I didn't really understand it at first, So
to be completely honest, I think in the beginning of
our relationship, when he was struggling a little bit, I

(22:15):
think that I remember just kind of being like in
my head, like, well, can't you just not do that?

Speaker 3 (22:23):
But it's not that easy.

Speaker 5 (22:25):
It's not easy at all, and they don't want an
attict doesn't want to do that, he doesn't want to
pick up a drink, he doesn't want to take a
certain substance. Like they don't want to do that, but
they it's almost like their brain is wired to pick
up that beer, to do that thing. And that's when
I started to realize, like, this is a this addiction
is a serious thing.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
Yeah, I think that makes so much sense. I feel
for all of us. If you haven't seen someone with
an addiction close up, you actually don't realize how deeply
conditioned and wired it is for that person. And it's
so easy from afar to say, oh, why can't you
just stop or why can't you just quit? Or why
can't why can't you just not do that? And that's

(23:06):
a natural feeling people have, But as you move closer
to someone who has an addiction, you recognize it's actually
them acting against their own will. It can be really
something that just pulls them towards it, even when they
really don't want it. And you know, whenever I've met
or seen people with addiction, I've seen that to be
the case. And I really appreciate you being so honest

(23:29):
about it, because I think when you're new to it
when you don't have an experience of it. That is
how we process it. How did you start to notice it?
When was it that you started to notice that this
wasn't something that just goes away or that he can stop.
And how did you adapt and change and show up
for him in those times?

Speaker 5 (23:46):
I think it was I finally realized, you know that
this is something he did not choose, you know, something
that he does not want to choose. When he would,
like I said, prior, it's we would have the best day,
we would have such a great day, and then later
on that night it was just something would just tick
in his brain where he couldn't help himself. And I

(24:07):
think that's a huge factor with addiction. In our relationship,
balance was definitely a huge key. I really tried to
do what I could to help him and better him
and distract his mind. For me, I'm really not a
homebuddy at all. And Liam was a homebuddy and that's okay,
But for me, I didn't want to be at home

(24:28):
from the minute I wake up to the minute I
go to sleep. And one thing I remember closer to
the beginning of our relationship was that I remember Liam
would always order us coffee from Starbucks on Uber eats
every morning, and I eventually said to him, I was like,
this is before I got my you know, I was

(24:49):
able to drive and learn how to drive on the
other side of the road in England, as you know.
And I remember saying to him, I was like, you know,
you have a car, why don't we just go out
and grab a coffee? Like why do we have to
order one every single morning from Starbucks? And he just
would always say, I just I don't really want to
get out of bed. I don't want to get out
of bed yet. I just want to have like a
lazy morning and then we'll go do something later on.
And for me, I prefer to actually wake up early,

(25:12):
go grab a cup of coffee, go on a Starbucks
drive through, sit on the drive through. I know it's
something so small, but it makes my day feel ten
times more productive just getting out of bed rather than
sitting in your bed and waiting for a coffee to
show up right at your doorstep. So for me, I
think balance was a huge key factor in helping Liam
with his mental health. You know, I tried to make
sure that we weren't busy twenty four to seven, because

(25:34):
he wouldn't have liked that. That's like him trying to
keep me at home twenty four seven. I wouldn't have
liked that. So I think a balance was great. You know,
some nights we would go out to a nice dinner
and then go watch a movie after and then play
mini golf or something or go bowling and then come home.
But then other nights we would cook dinner at home,
watch a movie at home in bed, and then play

(25:55):
we bowling, you know, like we didn't have to be
out all the time. But I think balance is so good,
especially when you do struggle with mental health, to help
get that person kind of out of their shell and
out of the house. And that's something that I really
tried to And some days, you know, he wouldn't really
want to leave the house, and I would just kind
of say to him, come on, like, we're getting out

(26:16):
of the house. I have I found this cool museum.
We're going to go here. And just at the end
of the day, everything that we did, we never regretted
because I knew in a way we succeeded the day
I got him through his mental health, that day I
got him out of that headspace. And I remember in
Greece a couple months ago before Liam passed away. We

(26:40):
were in Greece and he was posting on his snapchat
and he was having one of those days where he
woke up and he wasn't in the best headspace. And
I said to him, all right, get dressed, we're going
to the beach. It's we're in Greece, it's eighty degree
ninety degree weather. Why are we in the hotel room.
We're going to the beach. He didn't want to go
to the beach. He said to me, I don't want
anyone I want to say in the hotel room. And

(27:01):
I remember saying to him, no, we're going to beach.
It's a five minute walk, and then if you want
to come back to the hotel room, we'll come back
to the hotel room after. Let's just get out for
even thirty minutes.

Speaker 3 (27:10):
Let's go.

Speaker 5 (27:11):
So we go to the beach and he's posting these
snapchat stories and in a way, he's kind of joking.
He's posting these videos and pictures. He's kind of joking saying, like,
you know, my girlfriend dragged me to the beach. I
don't want to be here. But part of him was
being serious, and I remember when he put that out,
I was. I actually the next day received a lot
of hate from that because the fan base don't know

(27:32):
what goes on behind closed doors, so they took it
as in I forced Liam out of the house. I
forced him to do things he doesn't want to do,
like he didn't want to go to the beach, but
his girlfriend's dragging him to the beach. But I just
did it to help better his headspace that day. And
at the end of the day, we had a great
time at the beach. We did, and we ended up
getting lunch after we made a whole day out of

(27:53):
it instead of just sitting in the hotel room all day.
And once again I knew that day we succeeded. It
was at times a lot for me, and I am
not a professional. I never was, and I, you know,
am so young and I was so young at the time,
and I really just tried to do everything that I could,
and I just I think one thing that people need

(28:14):
to realize is that you cannot fix somebody, and you
cannot cure somebody. They could really only do it themselves.
I think that's one thing. Back to what I was
saying earlier that I just kind of was like, why
can you know, why does he have to do this?
Like can't he just stop? Or Oh, I'm gonna run
in and be the big hero. He's gonna you know,
he's gonna, I'm gonna save the day. But at the

(28:36):
end of the day, you cannot hear somebody, but you can.
You can help them, You can support them through their
better days their worst days always, but you can't cure somebody.
And I think that's one thing that a lot of
people don't realize an addiction, that you and mental health
you can't cure somebody.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
Yeah, absolutely, And it's a lot to try, even beyond
this situation. I think it's it's so hard, and I'm
empathizing with so many people who probably listening and watching
to this right now, who are trying to support a
partner through something like this, or a friend or a
family member, And it can be really hard on you
because you take on this responsibility, you take on this role,

(29:14):
and every day it changes, right, It's not linear. I
think a lot of people think it gets better every day,
But you could get better for three days and then
feel like you move back four steps exactly. Yeah, it's
shifting every single day, and it's very challenging for both
people because the person who's suffering doesn't want to put

(29:34):
that on the other person, and the person who's trying
to help wants to let go of that suffering, and
so it's heavy for both people. It's also not just
a one way thing. Yeah, it's both sides. I've seen
people through addiction and having mental health disorders that are
just feeling so bad for their caretaker or their partner
or friend who's trying to help them through it.

Speaker 3 (29:55):
Yeah, and I think something like that too.

Speaker 5 (29:57):
You have to in order to help and care for
somebody else, you you have to not forget to care
about yourself. And that's one thing I think I at
times was kind of forgetting to do, where you know,
a lot of people could probably relate to that if
they're in a similar situation, and you have to be
able to care and better yourself as well. You can't
just let yourself forget about yourself. You need to make
sure that you care about yourself as well and that

(30:18):
other person, of course both.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Yeah, did you overall feel like things were getting better?
Did you feel that he was moving in the right direction? Like,
what was your thoughts about how that progress was happening
for him?

Speaker 5 (30:31):
It was more so positive than it was negative. I
think he made you know, like you said before, a
lot of you know, he would take five steps forwards
and then three steps backwards.

Speaker 3 (30:40):
It would be kind of one of those things.

Speaker 5 (30:43):
He was a very strong, strong person, so he had
a strong mindset where he could really he could better
himself at times, but it's just that flip, that that
switch that just flips where you wake up one morning
and it's almost like he doesn't have a choice, but
he feels a certain type of way.

Speaker 1 (31:02):
Kate, I want to talk about how you found out
on the day that we sadly lost Liam and what
happened that day. Where were you and how did you
find out?

Speaker 5 (31:15):
I was in Florida and it was about three days
after I got back from Argentina. I was in the
house alone with our dog Nala, and I remember just
being on the couch. I feel like that whole day
was kind of a blur for me. Well, not the day,
but that moment in time. I was on the couch

(31:37):
and I got a phone call from one of Liam's
friends and he called me and said, is Liam.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (31:45):
I heard he fell from a balcony, and I said, what,
that must be a rumor. I was like, that's not
true at all, Like there's no way this isn't true.
And when his friend first called me to he didn't
mention anything about death. So the first thing that went
to my mind was either it was a rumor, just
something for clickbait, or he fell off a balcony and

(32:08):
he broke a rib, like he's okay. So I'm making
all these phone calls and nobody's answering the call, and
eventually I call the friend back. At this point, I'm
like starting to freak out, but I didn't think the worst,
so I'm not even like panicking too too much, and

(32:31):
I'm starting to get a little bit panicky. I call
his friend back and I say, have you heard any updates?
I'm really confused, like what's going on? And he was like,
the only update I've heard is that Liam's Liam's Liam's dead.

Speaker 3 (32:49):
And in that moment, I in that moment, I still
didn't believe it to be true. There was just no way.

Speaker 5 (33:01):
But there was just that one little part of me
in the back of my head that was like, why
would somebody make this up, you know.

Speaker 3 (33:08):
I'm just starting to panic at this point.

Speaker 5 (33:10):
At this point, I'm thinking of Okay, this this must
be true, and I'm pacing around the house. I couldn't
even sit still like I was genuinely there was like
sweat dripping down me and I've never experienced that before,
and I was just I just I couldn't stop fidgeting
with my hands. I couldn't be on my phone. At

(33:30):
this point, my phone was getting blown up. So this news,
whether it be this rumor that wasn't true because I
didn't have confirmation yet, or this true news that I
was just I just found out two mensco. My phone
was completely getting blown up by my friends, my family,

(33:51):
people that I haven't spoken to in years. I was
getting miss calls from and I'm just staring at my
phone and I'm like, not even looking at my messages,
but just I knew exactly what these calls were for.
I'm I'm piecing around the house, freaking out. And eventually
his friend called me back and he said that Liam's

(34:16):
not here anymore, and he's not he's dead and he
fell to his death. And I still I still didn't
really believe it. I just I kept saying, no, no, no,
he's Are you sure he's He's probably just he broke
he broke a bone, he broke a rib, he broke
something like, he's not dead, he's not dead.

Speaker 3 (34:33):
There's there's no way he's dead. There's no way. And
his friend said he's dead. He was like, I can't
really talk for I can't talk. I just need to
let you know the news. I'll call you back later.
And at this point I just lost it.

Speaker 5 (34:48):
I I just even talking about it, it brings all
these emotions back, where it's just still doesn't even feel
true talking about it. Sometimes I can talk about it
without crying, and then other times I can't really even
speak because it's just so the way that I found out,
it's just it's something that I never would have thought

(35:10):
would have happened. And I'm sitting in my house, I'm
all alone with my dog. I didn't want to be
on my phone because, like I said, it was getting
blown up. And our housekeeper pulled in the driveway. And
our housekeeper left earlier that day and she.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
She, you know, I.

Speaker 3 (35:29):
We got along really well, and.

Speaker 5 (35:30):
I guessed as soon as she pulled in the driveway,
I looked up out, you know, I looked out the
front door.

Speaker 3 (35:36):
I saw a carpooll in the driveway.

Speaker 5 (35:37):
She put in the garage code, ran in the house
and just literally fell on the ground and just hugged
me and just said, I am so sorry.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
I just got home.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
The first thing I did I put on the news
and it was the first thing after getting back from
your house. And it was just me and her, and
she was so comforting and brought me water, brought me tissues,
and eventually this is when all of my friends came
over to support me. Obviously, my mom and dad are
in New Jersey, so my mom got on a flight

(36:05):
the next day. Three of my best friends from childhood
all gone on a flight the next day all flew
down to be with me.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
It was hard, and it just it just still. It
was just something I never thought I would ever get.
That phone call.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, people talk about phone calls you never want to
receive in life, and that's definitely one of them. I
can't imagine the shock, the lack of power, control ability
to change anything in that moment, the lack of feeling helpless,
and confirmation not confirmation. I mean, there's so many emotions
that are running there. I again so sorry to even

(36:45):
hear about it that way, and you know the courage
that you have to share it right now. I'm sure
it's not easy at all. What was the last conversation
you'd had with Liam? Is that something that you were
thinking about then? Did you remember that?

Speaker 5 (36:59):
I think I think about the last day in the
last words that we said to each other. It brings
me this mixture of pain and peace, and it brings
me pain because I can't fully still process that that
day was the day left Argentina, was the last day
I was able to touch Liam, to hug Liam, to

(37:22):
speak to him, to be in the same room as him.
But it brings me peace because it was such a
beautiful last moment we had together on our last day.
We woke up, we had an amazing breakfast, we were
in the countryside, we went horseback riding, and I had
a later on evening flight and me and Liam had

(37:45):
this almost I don't even know what other word to
describe it, but we had this cleaniness to us where
even how we met, we kind of just met instance spark,
and our relationship moved very quickly. And some people might
say it's too quick. You know, people are going to
say what want to say. But I would never change
anything about it. And if I even went away for

(38:05):
one night to go spend the night at my girlfriend's house,
or even go to dinner with my girlfriends, the way
me and Liem would say gobye to each other was
and just like, oh, I'll see you later. Majority of
the time it was this heartfelt, long goodbye for at
least five minutes of just hugging I'm going to miss you,
I love you. And on the last day in Argentina,
my car was in the driveway and we went back

(38:25):
into the guest house, grabbed my suitcase, and we were
sitting on the couch and I just kept going on
and on and on about how much I love him
and how much he means me, and how much I'm
going to miss him, and that I can't wait for
him to already be back in Florida because we were
starting this new chapter of our life. We just bought
a new house, we just got a dog. We just

(38:48):
moved to America as well. I mean I was living
in England with him for two years. We just moved
to you know, my country. It was just all these
new beginnings and it was in just such a positive light.
So I remember sitting there with him and I was
going on and on and on and saying to Liam
how much I love him, and he laughed and he

(39:08):
interrupted me and he just said, Kate, like you're going
to miss your flight. Your car's in the driveway. You're
acting like this is the last time you're ever going
to see me again.

Speaker 1 (39:16):
Wow. I just laughed back.

Speaker 3 (39:18):
I was just like, I know, I'm being silly. I
need to get in the car. I can't miss my flight.

Speaker 5 (39:24):
Just to even look back in time and just know
that really was the last, the last time I was
able to see him again, is just so chilling. But
in a way, I think that the way that we
said goodbye to each other, I'm so blessed. And this
is where I get that piece from it, that it
was that heartfelt beautiful. I didn't know of it, but

(39:46):
obviously our last goodbye. I wouldn't have wanted it to
be any differently if it was just if I just
said all right, i'll see you in a couple of days,
like love you. I'm so glad that we had that
last beautiful moment together and shared that.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
I can see how much you're holding back and how
hard this is for you. Just you know, I think
when people lose people and you know, are family members sick,
there's a it's never easy, ever, but there's a preparation.
There's there's time to process with a tragic moment like this,
which you're not expecting at all, and then to have

(40:24):
the shock of it. Did you want to fly to Argentina? Like,
what was even going through your mind?

Speaker 5 (40:30):
I think my first thought definitely was yes, to get
on a flight to Argentina. But then after all my
friends and my mom came to Florida, I just realized
there would be no point and it's just better to
not be in a like foreign country.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
I don't know anybody in Argentina.

Speaker 5 (40:49):
I don't have family or friends there, So just to
be in a home where I feel comfortable being and
being surrounded by such a great support system is just
going to be so much better for my mental health.
I knew, of course, if I had to be there,
I would have been there, but there was almost no
point in me going there. I think obviously being in

(41:09):
Florida for those couple of days after finding out the
news and then being in England was definitely where I
needed to be, was being in England.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
I think a lot of us when we lose someone,
When we lose someone, a lot of us focus on
the moment we find out, but we don't often ask
people or how they felt the morning after, because it's
almost like when you wake up and the news is
still true and you realize it's real, it almost feels heavier.
What was that next day and that next morning.

Speaker 5 (41:40):
Like it was a mixture of this numbness where I
didn't sleep at all that night the first night, I
couldn't sleep at all, I remember, just because of also
the time difference and obviously England. I was just on
the phone back and forth with a lot of family
and friends in England. My friends who were with me
stayed up night with me. I don't think any of

(42:01):
us could sleep. I mean Liam was even you know,
he made such an effort with my friends and they
looked at Liam as a friend as well.

Speaker 3 (42:07):
So we all lost. They lost a friend. I lost
the love of my life.

Speaker 5 (42:12):
I remember one thing my friends immediately they said to
me after obviously the news the first night, they basically
took my phone and deleted social media. They were like,
don't redownload this. You don't want to see anything, because
there were a lot of images and things that were
coming out on the web that they were protecting me

(42:34):
that I shouldn't have seen. So I didn't have social
media for a couple of days. Honestly, maybe three days,
which is no time at all, and I'm ashamed to
even say that I re downloaded TikTok. I think after
three days it was everywhere in the media. It was,
you know, I would just scroll on TikTok and it
was my entire video after video Liam and just I

(42:55):
think the videos of of seeing him happy and with
a smile and just good memories and good moments made
me more sad because I realized, like, he's never going
to smile again, and he's never it's just an end
to creating any future memories. It was harder for me
to see those videos. But yeah, the morning after was

(43:17):
just numb. I think with grief it comes in so
many different emotions. I've never lost anybody extremely close to me.
I've never been to a funeral before, and the fact
that I'm twenty five years old in the first funeral
that I have to attend is my partner's funeral just
still doesn't sit right with me.

Speaker 3 (43:35):
And it's just mind boggling to even think that. I
remember what I was.

Speaker 5 (43:40):
Trying on my funeral dress. I remember just trying it on,
looking in the mirror, and I just remember thinking in
my head, I just started bawling because I was like,
I was supposed to be trying on my wedding dress.
I wasn't supposed to be wearing a black dress. I
was supposed to be wearing a white dress. And Lee
was supposed to be here with me, you know, So
it was really hard to accept this reality of knowing

(44:03):
he's not here anymore.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
I mean, when I'm hearing that, I feel like losing
someone is hard enough, and then losing someone when they're
in the public eye and they have fans all over
the world, and then when you're every post you see
is about that person and what's happened, it's a different
thing to deal with. And where everyone knows who thinks

(44:28):
they know, or knows who that person was, it's a
very different thing to go through. And I find that
you're not only grieving the loss of someone you loved,
but you're also grieving the life that you were going
to build together. It sounds like when you talk about
getting married, was that something that you both had spoken
about and talked about.

Speaker 5 (44:47):
I mean, for me, I think that most couples, of course,
why would you be with somebody if you don't expect
to have a future with them. It's something we definitely
spoke about and something that we knew when the time
was right that we wanted to develop and build this
life together. And I think we were really on our
way of doing that by moving to America, getting this
new house. I was starting to think of buying some

(45:10):
new decorations and all these things, and you know, having
a dog, and we were just kind of on our
way there. And to have that ripped from you is
just in one day. I mean, you really never know
what tomorrow will bring, and I think ever since October sixteenth,
I live in a fear of I don't know what
tomorrow will bring ever. But everything just got completely ripped

(45:31):
away from me in that one day.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
I know it hasn't been very long, but what has
helped you with the grieving process over the last few
months and as you're in that process and journey still,
what's been useful to you? What was helpful to you,
and what was unhelpful as well, because I think so
many people listening or watching, whether they've lost someone close

(45:55):
to them or I think people struggle to know what
to say, people struggle to know what to do themselves
when they've lost someone. What worked for you, I.

Speaker 5 (46:03):
Think at the end of the day, you need to
listen and trust your heart, because grief comes in so
many waves, so many different emotions. You're going to wake up,
you're going to feel numb, You're going to wake up,
you're going to feel sad, you're going to feel angry,
you're going to feel One day, you're going to wake
up and you're going to laugh, and you're going to
just think of good moments you had, and then you're
going to find yourself just this laugh turning into this
hysterical cry. And I think that grief is something that

(46:27):
you never know what to expect, and it hits everybody
so differently. So I think the best, you know, some
advice that I would give, just some general advice, would
be to always trust your gut. Some things for me
might not work for other people. I think keeping a
consistent of course, schedule, routine, and I'm not saying waking

(46:50):
up in the morning from nine am, having a strategic
plan throughout the day, and then not getting home until
eight pm. Of course not your mind needs time to
rest and think. But even just if you take one
activity per day, it could just be walking, baking, going
to the gym, going to applies class, just any type

(47:11):
of small thing, it just helps so much with your headspace.
But I think for me, one thing that really has
helped me so much and that makes me feel so
full of light and love is seeing signs.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
And I.

Speaker 5 (47:26):
See so many signs of Lim And I'm such a
believer in signs. I believe in manifesting, and I know
that he's with me and I feel him all the time.
And I remember at first when he passed away, I
didn't feel him for i'd say the first five days.
And I know that's not a long amount of time,

(47:49):
but obviously five days when you're not with somebody after
being with them twenty four to seven, it feels like,
you know, five years. So I remember getting kind of
angry and just being like talking to Liam, just saying,
why haven't you shown me any signs? And I remember
one day it was before I flew out to England.
So I was still in our house in Florida. I

(48:10):
sat on the floor of his closet and I started
crying hysterically, and I was so angry with him. I said,
show me a sign. This is so unfair, like are
you here with me? Show me a sign? And this
is a stage of grief that also, I want people
to know it's okay to be angry, and it's okay
to cry, and it's okay to say things.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
It's okay.

Speaker 5 (48:29):
And I was crying and I was just saying, I'm
so disappointed. I love you so much, but I need
you to show me a sign because I don't feel you.
And I remember I went back downstairs and it's just
it was such a simple thing, but my friends asked me,
do you want anything from McDonald's. And at this point
it was so hard for me to even hold down food.
I was barely eating. And for me, me and Liam,

(48:51):
we loved McDonald's. It was something that we would probably
get like twice a week, which I know is not
the healthiest option. It was just a part of like
just kind of our childlike things to do, and we
would always get the happy Meal toy. We always would
get the Happy Meal toy. It was always also Liam's
idea to do that. He was such a kid at
heart and he would always get the Happy Meals toy.

(49:11):
And I said to my friends, you know what, get
me a Kid's mealk. I'm not even hungry. I really
don't want to eat, but I'll try to. I'll try
to eat something, but I just want to see what
the happy Meal toy is. I really just want to
see what it is. So they came back. They brought
me the Happy Meal and it came in this like
because it was around Halloween. It came in this trick
or treat bin instead of the cardboard McDonald's like happy mailbox.

(49:35):
And I remember when they gave it to me. I
was I was annoyed because I was like, this is
the happy Meal toy. I thought I was going to
get like a little cute thing that maybe would have
been a symbol of Liam, or something that Liam would
have liked, or something like cute that could just make me.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
Feel a little lifted.

Speaker 5 (49:50):
I was just my head was everywhere, just even thinking
that I could get any sort of positivity and light
from a happy Meal Kid's meal toy. That was just
where my head's face was and I was so angry.
I didn't get any type of toy. I just got
a trigg or treatment that obviously I'm not quiting trick
or treating. So then I opened the lid to try

(50:11):
to eat some of the food and I noticed there's
this maze on the back of the lid, and it
was kind of one of those mazes where it's like
count how many black cats count, how many ghosts count?
How many pumpkins you can find? And I, obviously I
didn't try to even do the maze.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
Why would I?

Speaker 5 (50:25):
And on the back of it it said the answers
in small little letters, so you can, I guess, match
it up to see if you won the puzzle. And
our angel numbers have always been four, any sequence of four,
and the answers on the back of it were four
four four, And that was immediately the first sign I
got from Liam. And the number four symbolizes guidance and

(50:48):
support from your angels. And this has been such a
big part of our relationship. I mean, he had the
number four initialed on his finger. I ended up getting
it after he passed away, and I think that four
was such a part of our every single letter he's
written me, he has ended it with your four four four.

Speaker 3 (51:04):
It's just it was always our thing.

Speaker 5 (51:07):
So the fact that I got these this happy meal
toy and the answer said four for four, that was
Liam listening to me, and he was giving me a
sign saying I know I am here, I am here.
You're not alone like I am here, and it made
me feel so just my I just lit up. I remember,
and I still kept the little map I have folded
up and it's in my bedside drawer.

Speaker 1 (51:26):
And it sounds like you've seen so many other signs
off to that as well.

Speaker 5 (51:30):
Yeah, I have, and I see so many signs. And
I came to La obviously to be here. I came
to La and I've never been to La with without
Liam before. I've only been with Liam. We've went a
handful of times together and we've created so many memories here.
And when I landed in La, I felt like part
of me was missing. I just even getting on the plane,

(51:52):
just sitting alone, you know, not next to Liam, just
felt so wrong. And I was just still, you know,
everything that I do, I miss Liam. I'm thinking of Liam,
but being in this city that I love, and I
have this connection with La.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
I love it so much.

Speaker 5 (52:06):
Without the person that I love who brought me here
and showed me around La and introduced me to this
wonderful city, it just felt so empty. And I think
on my second or third night here, I mean, my
friend went to a basketball game and we were on
our way to the basketball game. We were in an
uber and everywhere we were just seeing fours everywhere on

(52:29):
license plates, we were seeing it on billboards, phone numbers,
like on billboard everywhere, just the number four.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
And then we get into the basketball game.

Speaker 5 (52:37):
We go into a suite and every suite it's like,
I'm assuming decorated differently that's normally how it is. It
has like a different type of interior to sign especially
at this arena. And we walk in and the wallpaper
is the exact same wallpaper as me and Liam's bathroom
wallpaper in England, and it's so unique. I've never seen
a wallpaper like this before. It's lionheads with this floral design.

(53:01):
It's something that's not just a color or not this
sort of design that you would see shopping for, you know,
a painting at TJ Max. It's just this design that
I've never seen before moving into this house in London
with Liam, and the fact that that was in the suite,
I immediately that's the first thing.

Speaker 3 (53:18):
I walked into the suite and I just stopped.

Speaker 5 (53:20):
I turned to my friend and I said, this is
the same wallpaper that me and Liam had in our
bathroom in London.

Speaker 3 (53:26):
And then we leave the basketball game.

Speaker 5 (53:29):
At this point, it's kind of late and we just
want to get some food in us, so we go
to this quick little restaurant for a bite to eat.
We were the only ones in the restaurant because I
think their kitchen was about to close within five minutes.
We walk into the restaurant and the song that's playing
as we're walking in is Night changes by one direction.
And the first place my eyes go to is the
TV screen behind the boots, and it was Liam on

(53:53):
the screen. They were playing the music video and it
was just three signed, three big signs in a row
being here in la and I just knew Liam was
with me that night, and Liam was there at that
basketball game with us. Liam was there that night eating
tacos with us. He was there with us, and seeing
those signs make me feel so much more connected and
close to him. And that I know he's here and

(54:13):
he's listening to me, and he's he's far, but he's
not too far.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah. I had the pleasure of interviewing Laurea Lyn Jackson,
who wrote the book Signs. Yeah, and I loved that book.
For anyone who loves learning about signs, loves knowing about signs,
that that book is speaking so closely to I don't
know if you've ever seen it or ever met Laurea Lynn,
but she speaks so beautifully about how all of us

(54:39):
have different whether it's numbers, whether it's emblem symbols, things
that we can see anywhere that points to us that
we're moving in the right direction. And yeah, me and
my team have had some pretty crazy experiences when we
were preparing for that interview and met her and everything
else as well, And so thank you for sharing those
because it's amazing to see how Liam so alive in

(55:01):
your life and so present in your life. And I
can imagine that's hard too. I'm curious to know what's
been the hardest part of the last few months for you,
because as much as it's wonderful to see Liam being
present in all these places, I'm sure it's hard as well.

Speaker 5 (55:17):
I think the hardest thing that this has of course
brought me is this loneliness feeling. And you go from
being with somebody twenty four to seven to knowing and
facing the reality that you're never going to see this
person again in this life, and that, for me is
something that I still just cannot fully process in my mind.
And I think that is always in the back of

(55:39):
my mind. I think going places to everything reminds me
of Liam. I could be having a specific coffee flavor
from Starbucks and I'm just thinking, Oh, Liam, love this
coffee I bring. You know, I bring up Liam in
almost every conversation I have because everything reminds me of him,
and at the end of the day, I'm thinking about
him every second of every single day. I could be
having a full converse, full bow in conversation with somebody

(56:02):
about something completely off topic, something just completely not involving me,
involving Liam, and always in the back.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Of my head, I'm just thinking Liam, Liam, Liam.

Speaker 5 (56:12):
And then even some of the things that I don't
connect with with Liam, things that we haven't done, memories
that we haven't made yet, or moments that we haven't
shared together remind me of him, because I'll think to myself,
Liam would have loved this, or I wish Liam was
able to experience this, or I wish we were able
to try this together. So everything reminds me of him
in one way or another.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
You know, I think we often think of grief as
a almost as if we're waiting to wake up one
day and we don't feel what we felt anymore. And
that's for anyone who's tried to grieve knows that's not true,
and it doesn't happen like that, And it's almost like
this very day to day thing. Day to day we

(56:52):
can feel different things, feel different emotions. One day, we
can be an absolute wreck. One day we can speak
with love about person that we've lost. What's been helping
you day today.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
One thing that really helps me day to day is
reading letters that Liam's left me, And I think in
today's generation it's not as common to leave letters. And
I'm not talking just about birthday letters, a birthday card
or a Christmas card, just letters that our heart felt
and that in the moment you want to surprise and

(57:25):
leave your loved one this letter. And throughout me and
Liam's relationship, he has written me I mean, he was
a songwriter. He was so good with his words. He
was almost like a poet in a way. And one
of his love languages was to put his thoughts and
words on paper. And he would leave me these notes
all around the house. And I have every single note

(57:45):
that he's left me, ever since the very beginning to
the very end. And we could be at a diner
and he'll write me a small little I love you
on a napkin, and I'll fold it up and.

Speaker 3 (57:54):
Put it in my purse.

Speaker 5 (57:54):
I keep everything that he's given me, And honestly, if
it weren't for these notes, letters that he's written me,
I don't even know where my head's face would really
be at. Because I think when you're reading a letter
in somebody else's handwriting you genuinely, when you're reading it
to yourself, in your mind, you hear this person, you
hear his voice, and it's just this connection that means

(58:17):
so much more than something on text or a compliment
in person. And that's so important too, of course, but
something about just a letter just speaks so much volume.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
It just means so much.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
And I believe you brought one of those letters with you.
Do it that you talk could share. Yeah, when was
this letter written?

Speaker 5 (58:39):
This letter was more towards the beginning of our relationship.
Another part of his love language was to, you know,
give gifts and sentimental gifts that would last a lifetime,
something that maybe even I could pass down to my
future children. And any single gift he's given me has
always comes with a card and or a letter. And

(59:00):
this letter here says the reason I picked this watch
out for you is because it doesn't have any numbers
on it, and my love for you is endless.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
It literally means eternity.

Speaker 5 (59:15):
So now every time you look down at your wrist,
you can no and remember that my love for you
is timeless. We have all the time in the world
to learn our love language for each other, and I
hope and pray that I get this right for you
with every tick and every talk this watch makes from
this second onwards, I love you with all my heart, Kaitlin,

(59:37):
and I won't lose you.

Speaker 3 (59:39):
You're four four four.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Sorry, it's just somethimes reading it out loud, just it's
just so hard to process that. It's like we thought
we had all this time, and he thought we had
all this time, and it was just taken away and
it's this is the watch, and it's so it's so special.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
To me, and I just you know, this is something
that I will always everything he's given me, but this
watch will always cherish, and especially ever since he's passed away.
I read this note so often and I look down
and I I just like he he you know, he
wants me to look down at my wrist and remember him.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
And you know it's not in the way that we thought, but.

Speaker 5 (01:00:29):
This, this watch is so special, and it's even the
way he gave me this watch it was I remember
he came home one day and he said, I got
you a gift and I said, you didn't have to
what Okay, Like that's so kind.

Speaker 2 (01:00:46):
What is it?

Speaker 5 (01:00:47):
And Liam would always bring me gifts, and they weren't
always these luxurious items. Sometimes he'd bring me McDonald's happy
meal to way that he got earlier that day after work,
or can we bring me a coffee or just a
card or note or flowers. It was always something different,
and he said, you're gonna have to go find it.
It's in the backyard.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
And I was like, what do you mean.

Speaker 5 (01:01:08):
He was like, I just thought we'd make fun out
of it. I want you to remember this gift. So
I hit it in the backyard. We're gonna have a
scavenger hunt. And I'm just in the backyard, running around everywhere,
and he's kind of just saying warmer, colder. And finally
I look behind this chair bench thing we had in
our backyard, and I see this box and this card

(01:01:31):
on top of it. And every gift he's given me
has a story to it, and I think that's something
that's so important too, and so important with me too.
I have not only these cards that I can read,
but these gifts, small or big, doesn't matter that they
each have a story and a memory to it. They're
not They weren't just given to me like, oh, I
picked this up today, I thought of you, thought you'd

(01:01:51):
like it. Okay, I'm gonna go shower now. Every single
thing he's given me has such a story behind it,
and I'll cherish this watch for the rest of my life.
And everything's given me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Thank you for sharing that with us and letting us
into the beautiful love that you both shared, and also
knowing how powerful it is for the people we love
and the people that love us to have these memories
that we can hold on to so deeply, especially as
you said so wonderfully in the form of letters. I

(01:02:22):
think it's such a beautiful message for you to share
with everyone that what's helping you day today is these cards,
these letters, these moments in time that you've kind of
kept as this capsule that you can turn to and
experience that love, even if it is challenging, but to
reconnect with it and feel closer again to Liam as well.

(01:02:43):
So thank you so much for sharing that with us.
As I've been listening to you today, I think you're
really brave and courageous to share the journey that you
both went on. The journey that you've been on can
be very hard with anyone who's beloved by so many

(01:03:04):
people all over the world. Like I said, you know
everyone in my life. When we found out the news,
there were messages being shared and people who didn't know him,
So I can't imagine you know, yourself, his family, everyone
else who's actually gone through this loss and had to
process it publicly as well. What's something that you think
this outpouring from the fans. I mean, the response from

(01:03:28):
the online world was so beautiful to see, and it's
always this is something that I find so difficult that
when people are alive, they rarely get to see how
much everyone loves them. And we deal with this back
and forth of criticism, challenge, whatever else it may be.

(01:03:50):
And then when we lose someone, we all realize how
we actually felt about that person and how they made
us feel, and we remember the first time we saw
that person on screen, or the first time we met
them if we got that, or the first time you
went to a concert for someone like Liam, or you
start seeing all of these stories and memories pour out.
And so when you look at that out pouring, what

(01:04:12):
would you have loved for Liam to have experienced?

Speaker 5 (01:04:15):
I think I just would have loved for Liam to
know how loved he really was. And I think he
knew that to an extent, but with any type of
criticism he was receiving, he didn't have that validation of
knowing how much of an impact and how much the
world loved him and you know loves him, you know
still every single day for the rest of his life.

(01:04:35):
I mean, Liam is going to be spoken about forever
was He made such a mark on people's lives and
impacted so many and I really do wish he was
here to see the love and support he's received from
everybody worldwide, because it's really nothing but beautiful, and the
memorials that people have put together, the tributes, and it's

(01:04:56):
just he deserved it. And as time goes by, going
to get this recognition and this love and support, and
I couldn't be more proud of him, and I do
wish he was here to be able to see the
tremendous legacy that he's left behind, and it's something he deserves.

Speaker 3 (01:05:14):
And I think this is just.

Speaker 5 (01:05:15):
Another message to be kind to people, especially online, and
it's one thing people weren't always so kind to Liam,
and especially like I said before, with so many other celebrities,
so many people aren't kind online. But then when something
tragic like this happens, everyone turns and everyone just sits

(01:05:35):
there and talks about the good. And he deserves only
to be spoken in such a highly positive matter. This
should be just a message to just be kind. And
you know, we're never going to live in a world
where people are always going to be kind. There's always
going to be that one out of ten comments or
three out of ten comments that are going to be
hateful always, and it's something we can't control. But I

(01:05:56):
think the fact that we can't control that, then why
are we letting it to us so much. We can't
control what people's opinions are, what people think. We can't
control it, so there's no point in trying to, you know,
in letting that ruin your day.

Speaker 1 (01:06:10):
How do you think he would have reacted if he
did have a chance to feel and experience the outpouring
of love.

Speaker 5 (01:06:16):
If he saw all of this, I think he would
feel just so grateful and just he would just know
that would just be his confirmation of how important he
was in this life. And I mean to me he
was the most important person in my life. To so many,
he was, but he just maybe didn't fully feel that confirmation.
I'm not sure, but if he saw this, he would

(01:06:38):
have that confirmation of Wow, I really left this legacy.
I impacted so many people's lives. And that's what he
would want, and that's he would just be. He would
be proud of himself, but he would be right now
if he was able to see everything, he'd be so proud.

Speaker 1 (01:06:52):
Yeah. Absolutely. Hearing about him from you has made me
appreciate him even more, respect to me even more, and
feel so much, you know, love for him through you
and through all the beautiful memories and things that I
read about when we found out the news. Just to
see him being honored and appreciated in that way is

(01:07:13):
really beautiful to see. Whenever we lose someone that's important
to us, I feel like we find a new part
of ourselves because we lose an old part of ourselves
and this part that of course always stays. But for you,
what perspectives have changed, what's shifted for you through this
journey that you've been on. For him, what's kind of

(01:07:35):
what's a lesson that's kind of risen to the surface.

Speaker 5 (01:07:37):
I think, just like you said, I think that when
you do lose somebody so close to you, you do
lose a part of yourself. And I do feel like
I lost half of me. And if Liam were here,
he would want me to be strong. He would want
me to be brave and do things that make me happy,
and do things to honor his legacy and honor his
name and to help other people. And I think for me,
one of the things I just keep thinking about is

(01:08:00):
what else can I lose in life now? When I
already lost the best thing in my life, Like what
more is there to lose? Like, how could it get worse?
So in my mind it's like take the risk. Do things,
be brave, be strong, don't lay in bed all day,
get out of bed, live your life. And I have
to live my life for Liam because I'm twenty five.
He would never want me to be in bed all

(01:08:21):
day depressed, and I have those days. Don't get me wrong,
I'm sad all the time, but I'm happy sometimes because
I just think about all the memories we have and
there was like, there's never going to be a love
in my life that Liam was one of a kind.
The love that we experienced is going to be one
of a kind. I'm never going to experience that type
of love again in the future. Whatever is meant for me,

(01:08:43):
it's going to be so different than what I experienced
with Limb and it's something that you know, I'm so
I wouldn't change any part of it and I don't
regret anything, and it's something that it's like out of
a movie. And I love him so much and I
will continue to for the rest of my life. I
just think that for me, just doing things that make

(01:09:03):
me happy and that I know would make him happy,
I'm just trying to do those things and be strong
and just realize that life's short and take the resks,
take the opportunities, do what makes you happy, because you
don't have much to lose.

Speaker 1 (01:09:19):
Okay, I want to thank you for taking the risk,
being so courageous, and hoping that everyone's been listening today
has felt through you a deeper sense of love for
Liam and the beautiful words you shared about him, which
I really do believe honor him. And I really hope
for anyone who's listening who's lost someone near and dear

(01:09:39):
to them, someone who's close to them, feels a sense
of peace and healing through you sharing your journey of
grief and loss and everything that you're still going through.
And I think you've left us with some really beautiful
reminders that I know I'm going to hold on to
of whether that's leaving the people we love letters, whether
it making sure that we do what's right for us

(01:10:03):
when we're going through loss, because no one really knows
what else we're going through, and ultimately what you're really
sharing with all of us that it's the oldest lesson
in the world, but it's the one we need again
and again and more and more in this world today
is that we have no idea what someone's going through.
You have no idea what's going on in someone's mind,

(01:10:24):
And it doesn't take anything, and it doesn't cost anything
to be kind and to be loving and to be supportive.
And I'm walking away from this conversation feeling inspired and
touched and close to Lim in a way that I
feel grateful that I didn't have the opportunity to before.

Speaker 3 (01:10:46):
So thank you so much, genuinely, thank you for having me.

Speaker 5 (01:10:49):
And I think opening up and talking about it really
really helps me with my grief. This conversation has really
just done a lot for me. I feel before talk
into this room, it's sometimes hard for me to talk
about it, but I think leaving this room, I'm going
to feel just addressing the good memories about Liam and
just thinking about those putting them out there for it

(01:11:11):
to share with you, to share with your viewers. I
think it's just so important and it made me feel
so much better. So thank you for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:17):
I'm glad, no, thank you. That means the world to me.
And it's another lesson in that that when someone's ready
to talk about it and when they feel comfortable, it
can actually help with their healings. So thank you. If
you love this episode, you'll love my interview with doctor
Gabo Matte on understanding your trauma and how to heal
emotional wounds to start moving on from the past. Everything

(01:11:40):
in nature grows only where it's vulnerable. So a tree
doesn't go over it's hard and thick, does it. It
goes where it's soft and green and vulnerable.

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Host

Jay Shetty

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Kate Cassidy EXCLUSIVE: Sharing Her Last Conversation with Liam Payne and The Real Story Behind Their Relationship