Kim Perell: Hate Your Job But Don’t Know What to Do Next? Ask Yourself THESE 7 Questions and Build a Step-by-Step Plan for the Career You ACTUALLY Want

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fear is paralyzing.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
I don't want to fail, I don't want to get rejected,
But I always think back to will I regret it
more than not doing it? Will I look back one
year from now if I'm in the same dead end job,
I will regret that decision more than I fear making
a decision and having.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
It be the wrong one.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
How are you going to move forward if you don't
put yourself in a position that actually makes you uncomfortable?

Speaker 3 (00:22):
The Number one Health and well Inness Podcast, Jay Setty,
Jay Shetty, Say Only Jay Shetty, Hey everyone, welcome back
to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning in
to become the happier, healthier and more healed. I am
so excited today because I get to interview not only

(00:42):
someone who's a powerhouse entrepreneur, someone who's a dear friend
and a co founder in mine and Raddy's Sparkling tea brand,
JUNI and I know so many of you are fans.
I hope you actually drinking it right now while you're watching,
But I want to introduce you to one of my
dearest and someone that I have so much respect for,
so much admiration for someone who truly walks the talk

(01:06):
and has built incredible businesses. If you're someone who's stuck
in a job that you hate, this episode is for you.
If you're someone out there who has an idea or
a passion but you don't know how to get started,
this episode is for you. And if you've already taken
that leap, but you're struggling to figure out whether you're
in the right business, what it means to be an entrepreneur,

(01:27):
what it takes, this episode is for you. My guest
today is Kim Barell, nine time founder, two time best
selling author, investor in over one hundred companies, and a
proud mom of four. Kim built her first company from
her kitchen table at twenty three, became a multimillionaire by thirty,

(01:48):
and sold her last company for two hundred and thirty
five million dollars. Now she's helping the next generation of entrepreneurs,
including me and Raley, turn mistakes into million dollar lessons
with her new book, Mistakes That Made Me a Millionaire
How to Transform Setbacks to Extraordinary Success. If you're listening

(02:10):
or watching right now, I want you to go and
grab a copy of the book. The link is in
the comments. You won't regret it. Please welcome to on Purpose,
Kim Perol. Kim, it's great to have you here.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Thank you so much, Jim, so happy to be here.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
I know, I'm so excited to be back with you
because we actually met when I was interviewing you for
your first book ever, The Execution Factor, and we instantly connected.
And I love that an entrepreneur was out there talking
about execution and actually doing stuff, and now here you
are talking about mistakes, which again I think is such
an important thing to talk about. And where I want

(02:45):
to start, and we'll get into Juny and all the
amazing stuff that we're excited about, but where I really
want to start is so much of my audience right
now is probably listening or watching. They're feeling stuck in
a job that they don't love. They might have an idea,
or maybe they don't even know what they're passionate about.
They just don't know where to start. What's the first

(03:05):
thing you should do?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
Oh my gosh, Yes, I totally relate. And there's so
many people that I talk to that are saying how
they are stuck. And I wrote, I mean in the book,
I talk about staying too long, right, staying too.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Long in a job you hate.

Speaker 2 (03:20):
In the job you wake up and you dread going
to and how do you get out? And I call
that my exit ramp strategy, Like, what's the exit ramp?
How do I get from where I am today to
where I want to be? And the first step starts
with thinking, for me, where do I want to be
in one year from today? It gets so overwhelming if
you try to have it all mapped out. But if

(03:43):
you can just think, what's my vision, where do I
want to be in one year, and then work your
way backwards to today and take small, tiny steps in
order to achieve it, it's more manageable. And I think
a year's a good enough, you know, a nice enough
amount of time to be able to put that first
step up into action and make that change that you
want to make. But it starts with knowing and making

(04:05):
you know that, putting that line in the sand that
I'm going to change my life.

Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yeah, I remember, I'm thinking about when I've been on
the verge of wanting to quit or move. And before
I started doing all of this, I was in a
corporate job. I was stable, I was safe, I didn't
love it, and I wasn't necessarily that successful. I was
good at what I did, but it was going to
be a long time before I had a successful career trajectory.

(04:32):
And I remember, for me, it was asking that question,
and also, funnily enough, another question which was kind of
at the other extreme, which was do I want to
be where everyone else is who's twenty years older than
me in this company? So I would look at someone
who's at the company who's ten twenty years older, more
senior than me, I would think, do I want to

(04:52):
be doing that when I'm twenty years older than myself?
To also get a reality check, right, an twenty years?

Speaker 1 (05:00):
How many times?

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I mean, you definitely shouldn't stay that long, right. Someone
actually told me the other day they were in a
job for twenty years. I thought, oh my gosh, twenty years. Right.
My rule of thumb, if you're not earning and you're
not learning, you got to make a change. And if
you're not there, say you've been in a job less
than less than three years, but over three years, you
got to really look at what is your career path

(05:22):
because you could just get stuck, yeah, and you just
end up staying. And honestly, I stayed too long in
a job. I mean I had sold my company. I
ended up staying because it was comfortable, but I wasn't
living the highest and best use of my skills and
my talents. It was just easy and it was scary
to make change.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
Right. Well, I think that's what it is like. I
think a lot of people, before we dive into some
of the mistakes, I made you a millionaire, I think
for a lot of people, we're just scared because we
don't see the options. We don't really know what's available.
We maybe even have been in a workplace that's made
us doubt our abilities. Maybe you've not been in an
empowering place, or you feel good about yourself. Maybe you

(06:02):
have a boss that doesn't acknowledge you or your commitments,
or maybe you have a team of people that have
made you shrink a little bit. Or maybe you've just
ended up in a job based on something you studied
at college and now you realize, I don't even like
this anymore. So when you're scared and you're facing fear,
what do you do with that? Because it can keep

(06:23):
you so paralyzed and so stuck, what do you do
to break through that fear? Of saying, well, let me
at least think about the next one year, let me
at least look at the options around me.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
I mean, fear is paralyzing, right, And I've had that
happen for me, just paralyzing because I am scared.

Speaker 1 (06:40):
I don't want to fail. I don't want to get rejected.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I don't want the pain that comes with trying something new.
But I always think back to will I regret it
more than not doing it? Like, will I look back
one year from now if I'm in the same dead
end job and I hate my you know what I
do every day, I will regret that decision more than
I fear making a decision and having it be the

(07:04):
wrong one. And so really thinking about is the regret,
you know, bigger than the fear.

Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, definitely. And I love that question and I've definitely
sat with that, and I think that's what made me
do what I do now, which is I would have
regretted if I never tried my hand at media. And
I look back now and I think, oh my gosh,
I would have been the craziest person in the world
to not try. And You're so right that regret is
probably the only emotions stronger than fear. Yes, and you

(07:34):
have to kind of tap into that to unlock and
get better.

Speaker 1 (07:37):
Yeah, and thinking to your point, in twenty years, I
will regret staying here and regret doing It's also about
just staying in relationships. What you're going to look back
and regret being in that too, right, How but it's
hard to change.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
I get it, like I've been there. It's so hard
to change. It's hard to make the decision. But again,
making sure that you think about the regret of not
making the decision is so much worse.

Speaker 3 (07:58):
Yeah, Mistake number one you is waiting to be one
hundred percent ready. I think this is you hit the
nail on the head with this one. I really truly,
truly believe that we're all wrapped up in what you
call the four p's, like the perfectionism, like wanting it
to be perfect, brilliant, know everything about everything you say

(08:21):
we want to be. We procrastinate, like we'll just overthink
the thing. How ready do you need to be in
order to start, like on a scale of one to ten,
or actually let's look at percentages zero to one hundred percent.
What percentage ready do you need to be in order
to start.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
I think when I look at being one hundred percent ready,
and it is mostly the fear, and I've been there.
I wasn't ready when I started my first company. I
mean I was too young, I didn't an experience. I've
never been to CEO, I didn't have any money. I
definitely I calculated because as my type a personality made
a spreadsheet it's like, not ready, how Kim, You're not ready?

Speaker 3 (08:59):
You know?

Speaker 1 (09:00):
And at that point you have to decide are you
ready enough?

Speaker 2 (09:03):
And the way I decided was actually I learned really
early on. I had heard this Marine Corps rule of thumb,
which is a seventy percent rule, and so it said,
if you're seventy percent ready, you should take action. If
you're one hundred percent ready, you've already missed the opportunity.
So I started using that rule, the seventy percent rule

(09:25):
to take action. It helped me balance analysis and action
and move forward. And I still use it all the time.
If I'm setting for tventy percent ready, I take action,
I move and I assume I'm going to figure it
out along the way. And if you think so, to
your point, what's the percentage seventy percent?

Speaker 3 (09:42):
I like that. I like that. Yeah, that really resonates.
I think that's right. I think one thing I love
that you said about there is that I think most
successful people they know that they'll figure it out along
the way. They don't believe that the first thing they
make will be the best thing, or they don't believe
the first thing they put out will be the final thing.

(10:03):
And I think when we're inexperienced, we think, no, the
first thing I have to put out has to be
my best thing. And you think about that and you go,
how's that even possible? Right? Like the first pair of
shoes that Nike made were not their best shoes. The
first drink that we made with JUNI like, our first
flavors were not our best flavors. Like the first thing
you make is never going to be the best, it's

(10:24):
not going to be the last, and it's not going
to be final. And so you had this vision of
I'll figure it out along the way. How does someone
know they're seventy percent ready? Like if they were, if
they had an idea, what is seventy percent classified it?
What do you think that's made up of?

Speaker 2 (10:40):
I think seventy percent is enough that you're still like
perfecting the edges, right, you're still thinking, Oh, I could
make a tweak to my deck, or make a tweak
to my business plan, or make I'll wait a little
bit longer.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
You know, you make up excuses.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
So I think as the point where you start making
excuses for why you're not ready, that's the seventy percent, right,
So I think it's not.

Speaker 1 (11:01):
I have done nothing. Obviously, you have to be seventy percent.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
So you have an idea, You've probably made a prototype,
you're ready to go to market, and then you convince
yourself why you can't do it. Yes, that's the point
where you actually need to go and get customer feedback.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
Me and you both know you got to get out there,
get the customer.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Feedback, get market feedback, because you're going to likely change.

Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yeah, talk to me about those steps, because those steps
that you just laid out I think are so important.
You just said you got to make a product. You
got to make you go to make a prototype, You
got to get customer feedback. When you think about building something,
whatever it may be, that is actually the fastest way
to figure it out. And this idea of having a

(11:41):
prototype or a minimum viable product is core like, so,
if you want to write a book, write a blog post, yeah,
and put the blog post out. Then see whether people
connect with it and engage with it, what comments they
put on it. If you want to start a podcast, interview,
I mean when I first met you, I didn't have
a podcast. I was interviewing people on Facebook Live Yeah,
and I could see what the comments were saying and

(12:02):
I could engage with people, and that gave me confidence
to have an interview show and actually build a podcast.
To me, that is the first step for anyone out there.
It's like, whatever you want to build, build the smallest, cheapest,
easiest version of it and put it out there. Right, Yes,
talk to me about some of the examples you've had
to do that with.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
I mean, yeah, I think for me, it's dream big,
really really big, and then start really small, right, start small?
And people ask me all the time do I need
to have money to start a business. The answer is no,
you actually don't today. I mean, you need to actually
have the grit and the ability to get your product
to market. So it could be a farmer's market, it

(12:42):
doesn't matter. It could be going door to door. You
just have to get a minimal viable product and understand
if you actually someone will pay for it, because if
not going to pay for it, it's a hobby. You've
always come there like I got a great idea, or someone.

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Pay for your idea.

Speaker 2 (12:56):
If it's not, it's a hobby, which is nice, but
is here to make money.

Speaker 3 (13:01):
Absolutely. Yeah. I was talking about it with someone earlier today.
We had when we launched our smoothie air one, A
lot of people come then. So I did this launch
if you remember, and we did it with the book
and our drinks and everything else at air one, and
we loved them over there, and we had a lot
of people wait outside and they came in droves. And
I met this one guy. He was like really excited
to make content for me and like work with me,

(13:24):
and he showed me some of his stuff and it
looked cool, and I was like cool, talk to my
team and get connected. The next thing I know, he
was on vacation and shooting JUNI just for fun.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (13:33):
And then he sent me a picture and now he's
editing so many things across different parts of our business.
But it was the same thing. He showed me, a
minimum viable product, right, So he went out and did
a pH issue. I never asked him to, no one
told him to. He went and did it. He was
on vacation. He shot Junie Cans in the ocean, sent
me pictures on DMS. I just saw it and I
was like, guys, this picture is really great. I remember

(13:54):
sending it to our chat and the whole team was like, oh,
that's awesome, and I'm like, yeah, we just got it
for free, Like this guy made it and now he's working.
So in any regard, I just feel like when you
can build the simplest, easiest, cheapest version of what you
believe in, that is the first step. Yes, and then
hear what people have to say. How do we get
over that hunch that we're scared of what people are

(14:15):
gonna think of what we put out there, because when
it's the easiest, cheapest version, we know it's not perfect.
And now we're trying to like over justify and be like, yeah,
but this isn't the final one. But how do you
allow yourself to put out something that's seventy percent knowing
that people are going to criticize, judge and have an
opinion on it.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
I mean, they're gonna judge anyway, right, And so I
look at it, and the naysayers and the critics and
the dream killers, they're gonna tell you why it's not
gonna work no matter what you do. When I started
my first company, they're like that Internet is a fad,
like that Internet's going to be nowhere.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Obviously, the Internet became so large.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
But back in the time, you just it's crazy to
think that people are like, no, the internet company is
gonna it's a terrible idea, Kim, obviously, but your confidence
in your idea has to be greater than anyone else's doubt.

Speaker 1 (15:05):
That is the bottom line.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
So you just have to believe more in what you're
building than anyone else's.

Speaker 1 (15:11):
Like, that's all noise.

Speaker 2 (15:12):
You just got to shut out the noise and keep
pushing towards your vision.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
What have you seen, because you've also coached so many entrepreneurs,
you've invested in so many companies, you continue to build
so many companies yourself, what have you noticed about the
difference between delusional confidence and delusional confidence That works because
it almost feels like everyone who wins that life is

(15:37):
delusional to some degree. They had to over believe. But
then you also see a sub sect of people who
do over believe. But there isn't anything there, Like there
isn't value there, So yeah, where does that come in?

Speaker 2 (15:49):
Ideas are a dime, a dozen executions everything, So I
get pitched all the time.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
I got a great idea, a great idea.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
You know what, the next three months from now, they're
gonna tell me I still have a great idea, and
then I'll see them in a year, Kim, I got
this amazing idea. Honestly, I want the guy or the woman,
the man, whoever it is, to come with me say
I've got a great idea. And I already started.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
But it started.

Speaker 2 (16:08):
I started my bait, my bathroom, I started my kitchen,
I started my garage. I don't care where you start,
but I actually had the courage to take the first step.
It's easy to dream, it's hard to do, and so
I want someone that is doing it.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Yes, that's why when you're watching Shark Tank or Dragon's Den,
the entrepreneurs that are the most impressive for the ones
who already have sales data, even if it's early days.
The entrepreneurs are always more impressed by that than they
are about someone who's like, well, we haven't put it
outs a market yet, we don't know. And so that
idea of learning and iterating, and I think it's like

(16:41):
shifting our mindset because I feel like when we were
at school, when you handed in a report, that was
it right? Right, So we were trained at school that
when you hand in a report or you do an exam,
it's final, it's done, whereas real life and business is
you hand in your first version of a prototype, and

(17:02):
then you iterate and you improve and you change and
you evolve. And so it's a real shift for people's
brains because we've all been conditioned to believe that, no,
once you hand it in, that's it, that's your grade.
Because if you've got a grade A, that's great, and
if you've got a grade C, that's it. You got
a grade C on your scorecard. You didn't get to go, oh, well,
now I'm going to make that report seven times better

(17:23):
and I'm going to change this paragraph and I'm going
to do this research. Whereas that's what real life's like.
So how have you trained yourself and trained other people
to change that mindset? Because I feel so many of
us get lost in thinking, well, no, it's final, it's done.
I don't have that ability to figure it out and
make things better.

Speaker 2 (17:43):
I think it's interesting to watch because people are trained,
to your point to want to be perfect. Right these
picture perfect I get an A, I move on. But
the reality, the most successful people that I know are
making mistakes and iterating along the way, and that's where
you get the most growth because you're putting.

Speaker 1 (18:04):
Yourself out there.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
You're actually being okay if you fail, and if you're
okay to fail, you're probably twice as likely to succeed.

Speaker 3 (18:12):
Right.

Speaker 2 (18:12):
The entrepreneurs that fail first are gonna, you know, statistically
proven to do better the second time. So you actually
should be putting yourself in positions now you might not
be successful.

Speaker 3 (18:23):
Yeah, I was watching a movie. You just reminded me
of something. I was watching The Founder again recently, which
is one of my favorite movies. It's the story of
Ray Kroc and how he built McDonald's. And if you
haven't watched it, anyone who's listening and watching, make sure
you go watch the movie. It's on Netflix, I think.
But I was watching it again because it's it's truly
one of my favorite movies, and there's this scene in
it where Ray Kroc, who's the who never founded McDonald's

(18:45):
but built the business because he took it off to
McDonald's brothers. But there's a scene where he's at like
this members club with his wife that his wife wants
to go to, and all of his friends have heard
about all his bad business ideas and he's a cut
on them, but they've all failed. So McDonald's is like
his seventh business or something like that, it's not his first,

(19:06):
and so all the people around him are kind of
laughing at him, going, oh, is this another one of
your franchise oh call franchise model, Like everyone's laughing it off,
and in that moment, his wife kind of stands up
for him and says, well, no, I think this time
it's different, and they kind of listen to her because
she thinks it's different. But it's so interesting that we're
all scared of the people closest to us because they've
seen us fail, and so making mistakes and failing is

(19:29):
uncomfortable because the people around us kind of remind us
of it. Like everyone at that table was like, raise
this one another one of your crazy ideas? And so
what do you do when you feel like the people
closest to you are your biggest doubters, because I think
that's we're not worried about the internet, we're not worried
about a customer because you don't really even know that.
You're worried about what your mom's going to say. Like

(19:51):
I remember when I was quitting my safe job to
do what I do today, my whole family was like,
you know, you're getting married this year, Like you don't
quit job when you're getting married, Like that's so unsafe.
Or I was hearing things like, well, you were so
lucky to get that job after you lived as a monk,
you know, you know it was so hard for you
to get that job, Like now you're going to leave that,

(20:12):
Like how are you going to give that up? How
are you going to pay your mortgage? How are you
going to pay rent? Like these are the things people
are hearing. And so making mistakes and failing is hard
because it's almost like everyone reminds you of your past mistakes.
So what do you do? Before we dive into the
next moment, let's hear from our sponsors. Thanks for taking
a moment for that. Now back to the discussion.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
For me, when I was growing up, my dad is
a serial entrepreneur and who's always on the brink of
bankruptcy and starting some very much like great I always
got some idea, chasing some dream, betting the farm. But
at dinner he would ask us what was the worst
thing that happened to you today? And so from a
very young age, he normally I mean it's very odd

(20:56):
to ask. I have four children, right, if I asked
him all the time, what's the worst thing that happened?
I think it was entrepreneur therapy for my father, to
be honest. But side note, it normalized failure for me
because it became okay to fail. And so how do
we have the same conversation with ourselves what's the worthing,
worst thing that happen to you today? I mean, like

(21:17):
something we know we're in business. Something goes wrong every
single day.

Speaker 1 (21:21):
It's inevitable.

Speaker 2 (21:22):
But how you respond to it is what makes the difference.
And so if we can just look at the setbacks
and the challenges and the things that go wrong as
essential stepping stones to what will go right. And it's
just it's inevitable. Right, success is in a straight line.
It's a winding, curving road. And if you can continue

(21:43):
to push forward and know that Okay, I'm going to
get rejected, this isn't going to go my way, and
start normalizing failure for yourself and making it okay and
with all the family. I mean, obviously my family is
embracing failure. I totally get an other you know, fai
aways Obviously that's not the case. But even when I
started my company, they told me this a terrible idea.

(22:05):
Like you again, it goes back to you just have
to believe, like obviously not to delusion. You have to
get to market and ensure that it's viable. But don't
listen to those naysayers.

Speaker 3 (22:16):
Yeah, how did you? How do you then pass that
on to your kids? Like you said, you wouldn't sit
down with your kids and say, what's the worst thing
that happened to you today? Like you wouldn't teach it
in the same way. Right, how are you thinking about
teaching your kids about failure and making mistakes and not
judging themselves or worrying about judgment? Like how do you
do that? And I know they're young, but like you said,

(22:37):
this starts young, it starts young.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
So for will I changed the dinner table conversation. I
use something called pow wow bow, which is how the
worst thing that happens to you, right, wow, the best
thing that happens to you, and bow like, what are
you grateful for? So it's a different take on the
dinner table ritual, but it grounds them in understanding failure

(22:59):
and mistakes and our great things happen, And it's a
different way to teach.

Speaker 1 (23:04):
Them how to balance back from the challenge.

Speaker 3 (23:06):
Well, you're almost teaching them that it's it's one third,
like it's a part of it. But then there's something
amazing that happened every day and there's something to be
grateful for, which is really which is a much more
complete view of life rather than just looking at what
went wrong exactly. But it is important. Yeah, I feel
like I'm trying to think about it. Where it happened
in my life, like where I just I feel like
at school it was probably my I feel like it

(23:30):
was my art teacher who just he wanted things to
be imperfect and raw. Oh that's amazing actually, And I
was never good at painting or drawing, so I always
thought I was bad at art, and he made me
realize how art was expression and it wasn't how well
you could draw a self portrait, which I can't do,
or how well you draw a person like He was like,
that's not our art expression and story and creativity. And

(23:52):
so I think he took away that perfectionist idea because
I think when we think of art, we think of
the Mona Lisa, and then when you look at something
like jack some Pollock, you're just like, that's just dots
on a you know, what is that? Or like lines
and dots and you know, but it's like, no, there
was some expression, there was some theory behind that that worked,
and whether you can appreciate or not, the idea is
that ore is imperfect. It's expressive, it's not always like

(24:15):
a picture perfect painting and the colors being amazing. So
I look at my Childhoo, and I go, where did
I learn to fail and be okay with it? And
even now I know that we have to fail every
single day to get to where we are in the
content we put out the podcast. We choose to do
everything like it is the only way. And I always
say to my team, thirty percent of our content always

(24:38):
has to fail, because that's a percentage and it's kind
of and I'm like, thirty percent of our content has
to be experimental. Thirty percent of our content has to
be experimental because we'll never discover the next style, format,
genre of content if we just keep doing what we're
doing right now. But I'm always trying to think, like,
how do I help people really embrace that because it's

(25:02):
easy to say and hard to do when you're like, well, Jay,
if I fail, I may never get another shot. And
I think that's how people feel that if I get
the door shot on my face, where am I going
to go? Like if I go pitch my idea and
it's not good enough, isn't that the end? No?

Speaker 2 (25:18):
And I think that's what we have wrong because as
an investor and as an entrepreneur, I raise a lot
of money and I invest my a lot of money.
You're going to get rejected one hundred times when people
come and they said, oh, someone didn't like my idea.
They want to invest five people. Listen, you got ninety
five more to go, right. This is a numbers game.
So you have to understand that if you want to
be successful, you're gonna have to get rejected a lot.

(25:41):
And that's okay, It's honestly part of the process and knowing.
I usually say, you know, go for the know, yeah,
go for the no. Just show up and try to
get the no. Because you're putting yourself out there. You're
getting better with each pitch, You're understanding what the investor
wants or doesn't want. And by the time you get
to one hundred, you got this nailed. You overcome your
feel of rejection at the same time, right.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
Yeah, and you learned so much. I remember yesterday we
were pitching and working with one of our brands and
we sat on a meeting. The team had come up
with this really amazing comprehensive deck, but I could see
within ten minutes the CEO that we were talking to
was cut. Their head was in a different space. They
were present, but I could tell that that wasn't turning
their wheels, and so I was like, let's just put

(26:23):
this acide and have a conversation. And we learned so
much more through having a conversation rather than just delusionally
just talking about what we'd planned. And I think that's
part of it too. It's like actually being president going
I'm just going to listen, because actually I just listen,
I'm going to learn so much more about what you
actually want, what you need, how your brain works, and
now I can be honest with myself and go. I remember, actually,

(26:45):
years ago, when I was building my coaching company, I
went to pitch at a coaching firm. This is so
be up before my content, and I was pitching a
corporate coaching session on emotional intelligence. And I was talking
to the head buyer at this corporate company in HR
and they told me what they wanted, and I remember

(27:06):
leaving the meeting, go, I actually don't have what you want, like,
but thanks so much. And I felt so proud of
myself for being able to admit that I actually didn't
have what they were looking for and that was okay,
but I would be able to find someone who was
looking for what I was selling. If that makes sense, Yeah,
for sure. And I think it's that belief of recognizing
that there is space in the world for so much
more than we think there is. I think we think

(27:27):
there's only space for Nike, and then you think about it,
You're like, wait a minute, there's Nike, there's Adidas, there's Rebook,
there's New Balance, there's Converse, there's La Coste. I can
go on and on and on. But we we kind
of in our brain are wired to believe there's only
two successful brands. There's Lululemon, there's there's Viry, there's alo,

(27:50):
there's you know. It's like, now it just starts expanding.
And you could have said, well, oh, you could have
said Athlesia was already all done like five years ago.
It's too saturated. Now you got set up active, you've
got fabletics like you know, it's you start recognizing, oh,
there's a lot of space in the world.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
There's so much space, and you don't have to innovate,
but you could iterate. And that's what we have to
understand is how do you iterate the next generation of
that version of whatever it is you're trying to create.
I mean, I've been pitched people like this idea has
already been gone, right, Like I was pitching idea, Someone's like, oh,
this is.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Never going to work.

Speaker 2 (28:23):
The ideas already the idea has already had. I ended
up investing because I bet on the people and it
went to like a thirty billion dollar market cap. So honestly,
if someone tells you it's already been done, I don't
believe you like it could be outdone, it could be differentiated.
There's better marketing. There's always an opportunity, to your point
to create.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
Yeah, yeah, and that's where you've got to look for. Yes,
we're too worried about being first or being the best
instead of being different exactly. And people are buying difference,
not first or best.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
No, they would just want what makes you unique? Yes, right,
and like why are you different?

Speaker 3 (28:57):
Why is it talking to me?

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Exactly?

Speaker 3 (28:58):
Exactly? Why is it me? There's a reason why a
brand speaks to you and connects with you more than another,
no matter how big or small it may be.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Exactly, there's always opportunity.

Speaker 3 (29:09):
That's where we need to put out energy rather than like,
oh my god, I'm gonna behind, Oh my god, I'm
going to be lost. The second mistake you talked about
is this idea of trying to do it all alone. Ah.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yes, that's so.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Hard, I know, but I think a lot of people
can think like that. I mean I grew up as
a twin and from an early age I was always
in competition with my twin sister, and she was smarter
and faster and better than me at basically everything.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
We took a test, she ended up.

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Being you know, Acey test genetically with the same so
it didn't make any sense.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
But she got busted up at the smart school and.

Speaker 2 (29:43):
I stayed back because I didn't ace the test, and
you know, my friends called me, you know, said you're
not the smart one, which labels you. But then from
an early age, I just became a lone wolf, right,
just like, Okay, I'll just do everything on my own.

Speaker 1 (29:55):
I'm not going to try to compete with her.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
I'll play tennis, I'll swim anything that's alone.

Speaker 1 (30:01):
Because it just didn't like I didn't want to compete.

Speaker 2 (30:04):
But that is such a mistake because trying to do
everything alone will not get you very far. It's only
until later, after I was burnt out, exhausted, working sixteen
hours a day by myself at my kitchen table, that
I learned that there's no way you will be truly
successful until you surround yourself with the right people. And

(30:27):
that was a game changer for me, and I think
for so many people out there. For whatever reason, ego
or you just want to do it alone because you
want to prove to the world that you can do
it again. Maybe, but statistically you won't be able to
do alone and until for me, mentorship has been such
a key factor in my I mean even us, we

(30:49):
have a great mentor in our business. So just having
a mentor. Statistically, ninety three percent of self made millionaires
have mentors. It's the low hanging fruit for any person
that wants to be successful, right, And a mentor doesn't
have to be someone that's hugely successful. It could be
the local business vendor. It just needs someone that's a

(31:10):
little bit ahead of you, right, And that's the key,
is someone that you can learn from, who's been there,
who's done that, who can teach you, because you will
not be successful alone, No one is.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
Yeah, I think that's the I think that you just
nailed it. That's the biggest mistake I think when we
make trying to find mentors because we want to be
mentored by the people we see on TV, and that
person's either not accessible, available, doesn't have time, but also
they've found that success in such a different way. And
you're so right that what you really want to do

(31:39):
is talk to your local bakery, talk to your local
design store, talk to your local you know. And now
everything's local, it's online, and there's so many companies and
so many people that would be happy talk to me
about how you build an effective relationship with the mentor,
because I think people are struggling right now where some
people don't have time, everyone's very busy to give time mentors.

(32:00):
Then mentor sumtimes feel like everyone's just take take, take,
take take, and then there's people saying, well, let me
do some work for you. But then that comes with
like a hidden agenda of like oh and you're gonna
give me free mentorship. So I think it's kind of
messy space right now, like how do you actually build
an effective mentoring relationship? How do you find one? And

(32:20):
how do you build an effective relationship with one?

Speaker 1 (32:23):
Okay, so those good questions. One, how do you find one?
Three words?

Speaker 2 (32:27):
Let's have coffee in our case t But yes, because
you can easily ask someone for fifteen minutes of a
coffee date or a tea nip date. That is like
to me, and I've been doing this for twenty years,
fifteen minutes, Jake, do you want to fifteen minutes? Granted,
you cannot email someone on TV and ask what they
want to have fifteen minutes of your time, but.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
You could email someone.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
I guarantee five people in your network that you actually
want to learn from and try to find a personal
connection point. So if you email me and say, hey, Kim,
you're a twin. I'm building something for twins, women and
business children under the age of ten. I need a
personal connection, and then I have the desire to mentor you,
and it becomes I mean, mentorship is personal. If there's

(33:10):
a price tag, that's not a mentor. That's a consultant. Right,
So if someone is saying I'll mentor you for ten
thousand dollars, two thousand dollars, one thousand dollars, whatever it is,
that's not a mentor.

Speaker 1 (33:20):
I mean I mentor a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (33:21):
It is truly I want the person to be successful,
and so I'm going to dedicate my time to ensuring
their success. And you want someone who actually cares about you,
who really cares about you what you're creating, and that
type of mentorship is so priceless and so finding that.
I mean, if there's only one thing you do ever

(33:44):
is finding that mentor that person. Because you're going to
hit roadblocks, you call them. They it's such a beautiful
connection if you can find the right one. But again,
if you call someone and they don't call you back.
That's not the mentor.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Yeah yeah, and you get hung up. You want to
find the person who has time to give yes, who
cares about you, who wants to do that. And just
because someone doesn't want to do that doesn't mean they're
a bad person. They're just not your mentor, right because
they might be doing it for someone else.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Yeah, the time's not right, that's okay, And don't take
it personally. Go out and find another one, right, Make
a list of ten people that you'd love to mentor
and start reaching out. Yeah, I mean again, take action
because I'm like, oh, can I need a mentor?

Speaker 1 (34:21):
It's like, okay, well show up and ask.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
I mean, the reason I have some of these amazing
people that I mentor is because they just asked. Yes,
asking for help is so hard, and people don't do
it because they feel embarrassed. They don't want to look stupid,
they don't want to show weakness. But asking for help
is the one thing that will help you exponentially increase
your success.

Speaker 3 (34:43):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And sometimes it's small things where
like people don't even ask, Like I had this so
I wasn't tour recently and I was flying Delta and
one of the estuids. At the end of her service,
when we were about to land, she wrote me this
really beautiful note and had left it near me because

(35:05):
I'd fallen asleep on the flight, and so when I
woke up, I read it. And they always give you
these I think it's these little wings from Delta or
something like that on top of it. So I read
it and it was really really sweet, and I said
to her when I was walking out, it was like
a full note, like it was a real letter. It
was very very sweet, and I just asked her on
the way out. I was like, oh, hey, like, are

(35:26):
you guys in here? Are you in town tonight? And
she was like yeah. I was like, well, when you
come to my show? And she ended up coming to
the show. She had a great night, Like it was amazing.
It was a town that we had a big Juny presence,
and I'm trying to remember what town it was, but
what city it was. But it was just one of
those moments where like it was just a really thoughtful
letter that really affected me and made I didn't mentor her,

(35:48):
but made me want to reciprocate. And so I found
that sometimes expressing something really beautifully and thoughtfully about what
you're doing, and with the mentor like us giving great advice.
Followed that up with saying, Kim, you know you told
me to do this. I did this, and this is
what happened. Kim, you know you told me to do this.
I reached out to this person because the mentor needs

(36:08):
to know that you're putting into practice. I think mentors
get exhausted when they feel they're giving you time, they're
giving you advice, to giving you inside, but you're not moving.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Oh yeah, I wouldn't mentor you very long.

Speaker 3 (36:18):
There you go so to me about the relationship.

Speaker 2 (36:21):
So I think you know I'm here to give great advice.
I don't have a lot of time. If you're not
going to take it, find a different mentor. I'm not
the mentor for you. But to be honest, it's that's
a you problem, not a me problem.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Yeah, I'm here to help take you to the next level.
And I want to be able to give my experience
to someone else. That really, I mean, people have been
so grateful with their time for me, and I feel
so lucky because it's been such a gift that I
want to give that and pay that forward. And so
I mean, even with the book, because I don't have
enough time to mentor as many people as I would

(36:55):
like to, I do have the time to write down
what I've learned so other people don't have to make
the same mistakes.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
Well, I think books are mentorship for that point. I
think that's a great, great point that I feel in
my life. Some of my best mentors have been books. Yeah,
I really believe that, Oh my gosh. And I think
this book's going to be a great mentor for people
who are making mistakes, who want to be successful and
they're like, I want to be coached by, you know,
a really successful entrepreneur that the book is that it is.

(37:24):
And I think we undervalue and underestimate the value you
can get from a book. Oh, I feel like I've
been mentored by some of my favorite entrepreneurs who either
died before I had the opportunity to meet them or
are people that I haven't connected with through books.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
Well, and especially if you're young. When I started, I
had no idea what I was doing, so I would
just read books of old great operators and actually execute
what they said.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Like Jack Welch, I mean it was ge. This is
thirty years ago. You're just looking reading books and be like, Okay,
I'll just do what this guy says. He must know,
right yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:00):
And so my hope is that to be able to
share those experiences, so you could say, Okay, I know
what to do when I'm in a toxic relationship when
I don't, you know, have the right partner. Like I'm
going to give you tips to get out of situations
that I was in that I wish someone would have.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Told me, right yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, please help
me kill I'm like, okay, here's the playbook. I'm giving
you the playbook. Read these ten and then come back
and tell me if you need more.

Speaker 3 (38:22):
Yeah, what are you when you say don't try to
do everything alone? Finding a mentor is important, but then
also finding a business partner is important sometimes, or like
co founders and connecting. What would you say you look
for in a business partner or a co founder.

Speaker 2 (38:35):
I've learned there are four pillars that you need. Just
as a house has four walls to stand, I think
there's four great pillars that every successful person that I
know needs, And one is a mentor, two is family
and friends, supportive, family and friends.

Speaker 3 (38:50):
Right.

Speaker 2 (38:50):
Three is the team. It doesn't matter if your solo entrepreneur.
It could be a consult it could be someone in
your network. And number four is peers. People that are
actually in the day to day and care relate because
my family can't relate to the trials that I go
through every day, but appear in the same category, in
same business does even in the same office, they can

(39:10):
relate to what you're going through. So if you can
find these core tenants, game changer. And so once I
started putting these people pillars into place for me, my
business took off.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
But it's making space.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:24):
It's saying I'm too busy, I don't have time. I've
heard it, I don't have time to do this, Kim,
I'm too busy.

Speaker 1 (39:28):
I'm too busy. Well, I'm busy too. But how do
we prioritize people, because that is how we will be
able to grow exponentially.

Speaker 3 (39:36):
Yeah, yeah, I was actually saying to someone yesterday that
one of the mistakes I've seen successful people make is
the only friends they have are people they pay all
people that have been there from day one, And those
are both important parts. One's your team and one's your
old school friends. But the peers part is so important

(39:58):
because that's the only person that i'munderstands your current pain.
So your person that you were friends with back in
the day, they understand your journey. And my best friends
are still my best friends from people I was friends
with twenty years ago. That will always be there. I
have a team that I love, I have great relationships
with very very important to me. I really value and
invest in. But the only person who can truly understand
where I'm at in life is my peer who's doing

(40:20):
the same thing at the same level. And what's really
interesting is those are the people you end up competing
with rather than actually collaborating with. And I was reading
Bob Iger's book and he was talking about how at
one point in time, and I may get a couple
of the names wrong, but the principle was there. Bob
Iger was saying that at one point Steven Spielberg, George Lucas,

(40:44):
and a couple of other famous directors of their time
used to preview their movies to each other, so they
would actually get into a little room, a theater room,
watch the movie, ask for feedback.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
That's the best advice ever ever.

Speaker 3 (40:57):
But that's because they were so confident that they're style
was so different that they didn't feel like they were competing.
Does that make sense, Like the reason why we're scared
to do that today is you feel like someone will
steal your idea. They trusted that these people were so
creative and no one would need to steal the idea
of because everyone was a genius in that room, and
so they actually trusted and respected each other's I love that.

Speaker 2 (41:19):
I love that, and I think if you can find
those peers, that make such a difference, because no one
can relate to what you're going through except for the
people already going through, and they can give you great.

Speaker 3 (41:29):
Advice before we dive into the next moment, let's hear
from our sponsors and back to our episode.

Speaker 1 (41:36):
Like that advice is, oh, I've just been in that situation.

Speaker 2 (41:39):
Let me tell you what to do in a hiring
situation and a partner situation. So I don't know if
you should have a partner or not. I mean that's
a personal values based question. But having other people to
collaborate on the highs and lows and kind of behind
the scenes, right because your team, you can't if things
go wrong you can't tell your team some of the
things you would tell a peer. You need to You're

(42:00):
gonna tell you one thing as a leader, then you
can tell your peers like, oh my gosh, it's crazy
out there.

Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah. Yeah. One of the mistakes you talk about is
this idea of like having a toxic in a circle,
Like you got to get rid of that, and so
you say that one of the mistakes is keeping toxic
relationships in you in a circle. I want to ask
you what's your take on starting a business with a
family member.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
It's hard, but I think anything could work as long
as you have very clear roles and responsibilities. Right, you
know what you do, I know what I do.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
I mean, think about you and Roddy obviously husband wife.
I actually seen it work really well if everyone knows
their strength. The problem it doesn't work well is if
you want to do what I want to do and
you think you could do it better.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
Yeah, and you're like, Okay, this is never going to
work out.

Speaker 3 (42:48):
Right.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
You need to trust that you will be in chard
to this, I will be in charge to this, and
division of responsibilities like that's number one. So actually I
love family businesses because I like legacy, and I like
the I mean, in the best case scenario.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
My children will work with me, So I hope that
would be like the joy of because it was so cute.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Right, they're five, so I don't know, We've got some time,
but yes, but that would be the ultimate gift for
me is to have something that I could leave to
my children. However, it's really important to you know, not
impose what you think should be done. You really have
to have trust and how you partnership is hard, so hard,

(43:28):
So I think partnerships are really hard. But trusting that
the other person will always act in your best interest,
that they always will do what you know you have
the same values. I think values are really important because
you know where you're coming from all the time and
whether you have a partnership or not.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
But I do believe it's so much more fun to
do it together, right absolutely.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Having started my kitchen table alone, it's so lonely.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
Like entrepreneurship is so lonely.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
I'm now at the other side where I never want
to do it alone.

Speaker 1 (43:58):
I want to do it.

Speaker 2 (43:59):
With a team, where you can share the joy and
the fun and the challenges and the disappointments like you're
just not alone, right.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Yeah. I've had a lot of friends who've like built
a business with a friend or a family member and
then it's gone toxic or difficult. Have you found any
great mentorship or insight on how to disconnect from that
relationship once it's gone bad that's in the healthiest way possible.

Speaker 2 (44:22):
Yes, I mean I've had a lot of toxic relationships
over time, and sometimes you don't even know because they
don't start toxic, right, They start as friends, and then
over time they go really badly, and then you're in
this relationship and you don't know how to get out.
But what I look to do is really annually I
audit my inner circle religious.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
Tell us about that.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
Right, So every year I look at all the people
in my business, all the people in my personal life
that I'm spending time with, and if they energize and
inspire me and encourage me to achieve my dreams, like
I put a plus. Very simple, it's a very simple exercise.
If they are negative, critical, tell me why it's not
going to work, I put a minus, and then I

(45:04):
actively audit them out.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
No, it seems mean, you know, people like what a
my my family. I know I get it.

Speaker 2 (45:10):
But if you want to achieve great things, you will
not be able to do it with toxic people around you.

Speaker 1 (45:15):
They will drag you down.

Speaker 3 (45:17):
Yeah, it's so true, right, And it's hard because people go,
how do I call it my family? How do I
leave the people that I live with? In one sense, yes,
it's hard.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
It's also about balance, right, So I understand that. I mean,
that's an internal struggle that I can't help with you.
But how do you you know, my advice is about balance.
So if you are in a situation where you can't
leave your parents, obviously, but you can minimize the time
that you're spending with them, right because those thoughts that
they're putting in your head, you know, once you leave,

(45:50):
And that's what happened to me when I was in
a very toxic relationship. You think about it over it
consumes you, right, and then it seeps into every part
of your life, your business part, your personal life, and
you have to eventually audit it out in order to
be able to move forward, in order to grow. And
it seems very harsh, but honestly, game changer.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
Talk to me about the connection between toxic relationships in
your life and money. How did the two connect.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
If you have toxic relationships, likely you're not going to
have a lot of money.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Yeah, why talk to me about that connection and how
you've seen it transpire.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
I think that having been in some toxic relationships, they're
not looking out for your best interest.

Speaker 1 (46:31):
And if you want to live to your.

Speaker 2 (46:33):
Highest and best use and your greatest potential, you can't
afford to have people that are draining your energy because
you need that in order to create and ideate and
innovate and build. So the more you have pressures that
are dragging you down, the less likely you will be
to be successful unfortunately. I mean it's just truth, right,

(46:55):
And so I really look hard at who I spend
time with and surrounding myself with people that love me,
want to see the best for me, believe in me.
It doesn't mean they can't challenge me, which is great,
but I don't want to be with someone that's going
to tell me why my dreams aren't going to work. Yeah, yeah,
that's not going to work because likelihood, I mean, you

(47:19):
have to be so confident in your dreams that having
other people talk in your ear all time terrible, right, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
Yeah, unless they have constructive love insight. Yeah, it BD love.
It doesn't work, And I think that's on I think
I love what you said. There's two sides to it.
The one side is you've got to limit your time
with them as well. It's agency because we can't blame
our lack of success on the people around us, because
then we're not taking responsibility an agency for the change

(47:46):
we can make. And I always say to people, for
every one negative person in your life, find three positive people,
because you have the percentage. Now twenty five percent of
your life is spent with negative people, but seventy five
percent of your life is surrounded by positive energy. And
you can do that Today. There's so many clubs and
events and communities all around just got it everywhere, Like

(48:07):
entrepreneurial society is just popping up everywhere because all entrepreneurs
are looking for community because nine percent of them didn't
have family support, right, because they had a crazy idea
or they took a risk or whatever it may have been.
So you're not alone. There's going to be other people
like you in the community who are looking for that
as well, right.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
And reaching out and being proactive, right, And it goes
back to asking for help and being vulnerable and saying
you don't know everything, like who wants to be with
someone that knows everything?

Speaker 3 (48:34):
Right?

Speaker 2 (48:34):
And usually the toxic people are self imposing their limiting
beliefs on you. They're telling you it's not going to work,
you can't do it because that's what they think, not
what you think. And so it's trying to make sure
that what they think or is what I think. And
it's hard if they keep telling you what they think,
so it becomes noisy in your head, right.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Yeah, And it's what they think because someone told them that, right.

Speaker 1 (48:55):
So you got to stop the pattern exactly.

Speaker 3 (48:57):
You got to stop the pattern for your family, yes,
for your prey children, absolutely absolutely, And people forget too.
They try and you know, I remember having this conversation
with my mom because she left, she had to leave
her country when she was sixteen years old and moved
to England. And when I was moving to America at
twenty eight, she was like, oh my god, I can't

(49:17):
believe like you're moving like full on, like to another country,
and you know all the rest of it. I was like, Mom,
you did it when you were sixteen.

Speaker 1 (49:24):
Gosh, god, Mom, you.

Speaker 3 (49:25):
Did it when you was sixteen, and she did the
same when I was becoming a monk of twenty two.
She's like, you're going to India and you're going to
be away and like you know, And I was like, Mom,
you moved when you were sixteen, right, like to a
country with no education, no money, and you figured it out,
like you know, and it's and it was so amazing
to see that, like mom's protective love. Like I know
it came from a place of love, but it was like,

(49:47):
but Mom, you had did something way harder than I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (49:49):
Yeah, she's trying to protect yourself.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
You try to protect me. It's a mom's love. But
it's really interesting because it's counterintuitive to the fact that
she had to do it right. She had to leave
her parents to build a life for them and you know,
all the rest of it and be able to provide
for her family. But we we forget that, and so
sometimes we passed down even though we lived a really difficult,
challenging life. We passed down insecurity to our kids, right,

(50:14):
not passing down freedom, which is a really fascinating thing.

Speaker 1 (50:18):
It's interesting, you know, it's because security.

Speaker 3 (50:25):
Not realizing that it was the same thing that gave
you the capacity and the intensity to become a resilient
like when you said people have got to have resilience
in grit. You don't get resilience in grit by everything
going your way. You get resilience and grit by being
knocked down things being hard and difficult, like you know,
that's where it takes to build muscles. So it's funny

(50:46):
how we try and make everything easy for everyone else,
even with.

Speaker 1 (50:50):
My own children making sure that I mean, their a life.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Obviously it's not the same life I grew up and
like trying to pay the bills and go have heat.
You know, they obviously don't have the same challenges, But
how do we instill the same work ethic in them?
That's what I'm thinking all the time. I Mean, it's
just like a struggle in my own mind, like what
do I need to do out of like chores? Like
everything in our family is just looking at how do
we instill and passion right, Like we want them to

(51:15):
have passion about what they do and what they want
to create.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
So we had to be very thoughtful and mindful about
not self projecting how we grew.

Speaker 3 (51:24):
Up definitely onto them. Definitely, Kim, how many people have
you hired in your lifetime?

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Oh? Thousands, yeah, thousands, thousands, thousands, Yes. The last company
I ran had over a thousand employees, I mean have thousands.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
And how many of them did you personally interview, look
at resumes and actually get that deeply.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
With Oh, I mean over twenty years, probably at least
over five hundred, maybe more.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
When you manage people, how did you set up your teams?

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Like?

Speaker 3 (51:48):
How many people maximum do you personally lead and manage?
Did you find a sweet spot? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (51:54):
Usually anything over eight was I mean, if you have
a thousand people globally or anything over eight starts get
very difficult.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Why did you find eight manageable? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (52:03):
Just because I could at least have one on ones
with them, I could spend time with them, I could
still have the personal connection to make sure that that
they had knew the vision, they knew I cared, and
it was And usually it was because we had offices
all around the world, so usually those eight were actually distributed.
So I had a country manager in Tel Aviv, one
in Australia, so depending on what the function was.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
But eight was where the sweet spot for me.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
I think some people can manage a lot more, but
in order to really scale like a billion dollars on
annual basis, that was where I found.

Speaker 3 (52:34):
I was like, perfect, well, yeah, that makes a lot
of sense. I think that's fair. And when you think
about you only have seven days a week and you
only have five work days, right, if you're managing more
than one person a day.

Speaker 1 (52:46):
It's very hard.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
It gets hard. Yeah, And so eight is you know
at that, like.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Well probably the max, right, Some people would say like
six is probably the best. The challenge is when you
build from the ground up, everyone wants to report to you,
so it becomes emotional too, and there's other factors that
aren't as just black and white.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
That aren't as easy as okay, it's six and we're
just going to do that. It's like, well, you just
that you have to be agile with the circumstance, right,
and it makes a difference, and you want to keep
people motivated, and especially I'm acquired a lot of companies,
and when you acquire companies, they don't want to be
put under layers of people. There's different challenges with every
phase of a business.

Speaker 3 (53:24):
So the reason I asked you that is because I
actually have four resumes here can hire someone, and I
want you to tell me, okay, who we should be hired.
So I'm going to hand you these. You can take
a second. Let through them.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
What's the position.

Speaker 3 (53:36):
These are all for different roles and ones for a
creative director, one's a product manager, one's a marketing specialist,
one's an operations manager. They're not competing, but I want
you to be able to look through them and tell
me what you think is good and bad, because a
lot of what we heard from our audience was that
I'm applying to four hundred companies and I feel like
I'm ending up on a stack that never gets looked at.

(54:00):
I don't know how to stand I'm gonna tell you how.
Tell us what's standing out and what's not standing out.

Speaker 2 (54:04):
Say I post a job on LinkedIn, I get three
thousand resumes, no way or hire a manager. Anyone can
go through them. If you want to stand out and
you want that job, you better find the hiring manager,
DM them, send them a letter. I don't care how
you get hold of them and tell them how bad
you want that job, because most people just send it
the resume and hope someone's gonna call him nobody's calling you.

(54:27):
If you really want that job, you will find the
hiring person and get in there.

Speaker 1 (54:32):
So dare to be different.

Speaker 2 (54:34):
I think that goes with the guy that you said
earlier that just started making content. You have to be proactive.
So forget just the resumes. No one's going to look
through three I literally will not look through three thousand resumes.
I mean maybe the hire manager will somewhere, but no,
it's the truth.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Or find a.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
Contact of someone that you know that's in the company.
You know, I think statistically, so many more hires are
done by referrals, right, So who can refer you in?

Speaker 1 (54:59):
But I'm gonna look the right It's just so I
can see.

Speaker 3 (55:01):
Yeah, take a look at what you like and what
you're don't like.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
Okay, they all look very good.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
But the one I'm going to hire is the product
manager for growth. And I'll tell you why because they
tell me in the resume that they did one hundred
and twenty percent year of a year user growth, They
increased adoption by thirty five. They gave me data that
supported the job that I want to hire them for.
I mean, honestly, they launched analytics feature resulting in two

(55:26):
point three million in the first year. Everything is data
driven and I like that. I mean, they are product
manager of growth. They're going to track the growth. Amazing
six years, twelve years. None of it actually matters to me.
I mean honestly, like, great, you have experience, but I
want to know what you are doing right now.

Speaker 3 (55:43):
So I like that, Yeah, you want to back the
claim up. You can't just be like I'm a marketing
specialist with six years.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
Ex tell me tell KPIs that you actually tell me
what you did differently and how you grew the company.
But the biggest thing I would also do, and this
is what I regret and huge mistake, is you know
you overlook it. I called the pop She looks perfect
on paper, right, amazing you how many people I have
hired that look perfect on paper and then are disaster

(56:09):
once they get in? Oh my gosh, so many. So
the one thing that I mean I talked about in
the book. First, I have specific interview questions that I ask, Okay,
so one would be in three months, what would I
learn now that I will not learn during this interview
process about you?

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Because I don't know. I mean, that's so much time.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
What would your last hiring manager, tell me that the
they would want to change about you, and then what
would your peers want to change? I want to know
things that are challenging, so I know if I'm going
to be able to live with them, and what you
need to change about people, what they need to change,
and are they self aware?

Speaker 1 (56:53):
And then living or dead?

Speaker 2 (56:55):
Who do you most admire because usually it's a reflection
of who they want to become, and so I want
to know who they admire because is that the type
of person that I want to have in the company
or not? Questions right, and so all of these little
specific things that I've learned along the way, because so
many people look great on paper, just like online dating.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
They look so good and then you get in You're like, oh.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
My gosh, you're terrible. Just because you had twenty years
doesn't make a difference. What did you do in the
last year?

Speaker 1 (57:21):
Yeah, righty, well I've.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
Been working for two years. That's I mean, that's okay too,
but I want to know that. And then referrals. If
you're hiring someone, we always skip and I, oh, the
restume looks great, I don't need to do oh, so
not referrals. References We look at hiring someone, we think, oh,
they look amazing on paper. I don't need to do
the references. Oh my gosh, huge mistake. Please call the references.

(57:44):
Usually they can't say anything anyway, But if it's a
really good and they really like the person, they'll tell you.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Right.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
They're just not going to tell you they don't like
the person.

Speaker 3 (57:52):
Yeah, Yeah, you'll get a signed Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:53):
You'll get a sign, you get a gut feeling. If
I can't tell you, talk to you about Kim.

Speaker 3 (57:59):
But that's the thing. You want to get a three
to sixty degree view, the person in person, the person
on paper, the person through another person's lens. It's not
good enough to just look at one thing. And I
loved your advice. By the way, I fully agree with you.
I don't think I've ever got a job or a partnership,
or invested in a company, or had a company invest
in me in any way when it wasn't personal. Right,

(58:20):
And that's one of your biggest mistakes that you talk about,
which is believing that business isn't personal. You say business
is always personal, always, And that comes down to this
point because it's so easy to think, oh no, but
there's a system, and there's rules to apply, and no,
it's personal.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
It's always personal.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
If you call me and say, Kim, I have a
great candidate, the probability that I take the interview is
so high. And if you say, Kim, I've got a
great investment, I will also take the Everything is personal.
If you're vouching for them, I'm vouching for them. That
means a lot, right.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
And that's a really important one. Anything you want to
add to this.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
I mean, no, I like who.

Speaker 2 (58:59):
I mean an interesting to see who you hire here,
But I will get it's not on these resumes. If
I have to bet, it's someone else. Somehow they get
through the system, some how they go around, they go up,
to go down, I don't know. But it's not someone
that's coming in through three thousand people that you can't find.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
Yeah, it's a great point. It's a truly great point.
I love it, and I hope it encourages anyone who's
feeling stuck and lost right now and feeling like your
resume is not being looked at. It's not because you're
not good enough. It's actually not a reflection of your
resume or your skills. It's a reflection of the fact
that people hire people they know what people that know
people they know and in some way differentiating yourself that

(59:37):
makes you stand out, right, that's all making.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
And finding a connection point. I love a personal connection point.
I'm a much more likely to talk to you if
you went to my It's like there's a there's a
bias that you just have. You're from my hometown, you
went to my school, You like my favorite sports team.
Start going through your birthdays in March like mine, Yeah,
me too, or Pisces. Whatever that connection point you can

(01:00:00):
find and make it personal. Ground it in personal connection,
the likelihood you will be successful is far greater.

Speaker 3 (01:00:07):
Yeah. I would always reach out to when I was
applying for jobs initially, I would always reach out to
alumnus of my university who are at the company that
I'd like to be at, because they're just three years
ahead of me or five years ahead of me, and
I'm like, hey, you went to the same school as me.
I'd love to follow your footsteps. Fifteen minutes coffee like tea? Right,
Can I hang with you for fifteen minutes If you can't,

(01:00:28):
I'd love an intro at the company. And all of
a sudden you've just skipped those three thousand resumes that
are sitting there, and you're right at the top of
the pile.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
The biggest mistake people make is not asking. I did
that when I wanted to go to college. I wanted
to go to Duke and I had a family friend
that had gone there, he was alumni. I didn't ask
him to write me a recommendation because I just felt
I was wasting his time.

Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
What a mistake.

Speaker 2 (01:00:54):
I didn't leverage that the assets I had. Obviously I
didn't get in I want to Pepperenid. But regardless if
I would have asked for help, if I would have
asked someone for the job referral, for the contact, people
want to help. I think it's our own internal voices
telling ourselves that people don't want to help.

Speaker 3 (01:01:14):
So this might be uncomfortable, but I think it's important
to say so. Someone will sometimes present me an opportunity,
but they'll present it in a way that's trying to
make it out like it's mutually beneficial, but really it's
just beneficial to them. And now it's not an ask,
it's a presentation, whereas if that person would have just
asked and said, hey, Jay, it would mean the world

(01:01:35):
to me if you did this. It's going to be
really easy for me to say yes you want, because
I want to help, but I don't want to be
made to feel like this is some mutually beneficial thing
when it isn't. And I just want to be clear
on that. And I happened to me yesterday with someone and
I don't have the relationship with them to tell them that,
but I was just thinking about that. I was like, no,
be humble enough to ask. And it's something I've loved

(01:01:58):
watching you do, you know, building a beverage company with
us and everything, Like I see you in every room.
You're always happy to be the person who asks the
most ridiculous question or the hardest question, despite being such
a successful entrepreneur. And it's what makes you so successful
because you're humble enough to ask the question and people
are willing to help you. I've seen it. We've had buyers,

(01:02:18):
we've had investors, we've had friends, we've had board members
who are willing to help you and me because we
both are okay being like we don't know, Like I
don't walk into beverage as an industry and go oh,
because I am really good at doing podcasting. That means
I really know what beverage is all about. It's like
I don't have a clue, and I'm okay with that,

(01:02:39):
Like that's not a weakness, that's my strength because now
I'm willing to ask questions that I don't want and
so I think sometimes having humility in the ask is
actually more endearing and attractive than trying to make it
look like a proposition that feels like it's doesn't make sense.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Yes, what goes to mentorship too, right, because.

Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
But first, here's a quick word from the brands that
support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.
Now let's dive back in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
We ask people all the time because we have no idea, Right,
we're asking our way to success over and over again.
We're asking for the intro and some people could say no.
People sends it can say yes, But at least we asked.
And just if you only take one thing away, just
start asking again, what's the downside?

Speaker 1 (01:03:25):
I don't want to get rejected again. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
How are you going to move forward if you don't
put yourself in a position that actually makes you uncomfortable.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Yeah, it's it's something you really live by and what
you do all the time. And it's always so impressive
to see someone so successful do that because and I
think it's actually a trait of very successful people. They're
very happy to know what they know and not know
what they don't know, right, and they're not trying to
And I think sometimes when we're on the come up,

(01:03:53):
we feel we have to pretend like we know stuff
in order to make sure that we don't look stupid,
and then you end up looking stupid in the process.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
Right, you don't want to show weakness. But the reality is,
I have no idea what I'm doing, and I'm learning
along the way, and I'm smart and I can pick
it up very quickly. But I actually have to tell
you that I no idea what Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Yeah, And that's the important part. You're smart and you
pick things up quickly. That's really important. You know. One
of the biggest mistakes, and this is the last one
I want to talk about. There's ten in the book
that Kim tells personal stories, shares insights. Like she said
the interview questions you should ask like. The book is
packed with so much great advice, and I want you
to really think about the mistakes that she's sharing, But

(01:04:34):
we all feel like we're not qualified. And I think
women statistically feel more unqualified than men. And you'd write
about this, to talk about this, talk to us about that,
because I think that's sometimes what trips us up so much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:49):
I spent a long time believing I was underqualified, and honestly,
it stemmed back to my childhood because I was told
I wasn't the smart one, and I was told that
I doesn't tell me of the f and I mean
that those boards haunt you, right, and so you create
these labels that you take with you which are not true,

(01:05:09):
and it makes you second guess yourself all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:05:13):
Am I supposed to be in this room? Am I
supposed to am?

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
Am I able to be a CEO of a tech
company even though I don't know how to code? Am
I able to be a CEO of a beverage brand
even though I have no idea what I'm doing? But
I feel that in my own career, believing I was
underqualified limited my ability to grow. So you know, I
was asked to be on a board seat, I said no,

(01:05:36):
Why Because I believed I was underqualified? What a mistake
I made? Because that was an amazing opportunity for growth,
for intellectual understanding.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Of how corporate boards work.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
And later I met the person that asked me, and
I said, why didn't you take this board seat? I
made up some excuse why I could. I'm too busy,
you know, some excuse that normally I shouldn't have done.
I said, listen, I didn't think I had the experience.
So it's a lot of MBAs and people that have
been vcs, and they said, your experience as a CEO
is exactly why we wanted you to be on the board.

(01:06:08):
But I made up these excuses in my head why
I was not qualified enough. And after that happened, I
said I would never do that again. I would just
say yes and figure it out. So the next time
someone asked me on a board, obviously I said yes,
but you have to overcome those limiting beliefs that you
are not qualified enough. And yeah, women, especially right, we

(01:06:29):
just don't think. We think we need more experience, we
think we need another degree, we think we need a
better pitch. I mean, I love to invest in women startups.
I don't even see a lot of them because the
guys will come pitch with their deck at seventy percent
the women that I see, they've perfected that deck. It
looks amazing, and I unfortunately, I don't want it to

(01:06:51):
look amazing. I want I know your business is going
to change. So come, like, just put yourself out there, right, Like,
you got to just put yourself out there. You're okay,
getting rejected, even if you think you're underqualified, doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Do it anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:07:03):
You'll figure it out along the way. And so learning
that for me it was a huge learning lesson, and
I talk about how do I overcome that? How do
I start believing and gain the confidence that I am
not underqualified?

Speaker 1 (01:07:17):
I'm just learning along the way.

Speaker 3 (01:07:19):
Yeah. Absolutely, it's such an empowering message to here. Kim.
Is there anything I haven't asked you today that you
wish I did, Any story that you wanted to share
that I haven't brought out of you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
I think the only one that maybe is just how
important pivoting is to a business or relationship or anything
you're doing. And how listen, ninety percent of businesses pivot.
I've invested over one hundred companies, probably one hasn't pivoted
the business model one Okay, So if you're out there

(01:07:50):
with an idea or a business or plan, and you're
stuck in the plan and you put your head in
the sand. You say market changing, and I'm I'm just
gonna keep doing the same thing. That's a mistake because
if you look at the most successful companies. YouTube started
as a dating site, Twitter podcast platform, Shopify started selling snowboards.

(01:08:12):
I mean every single company has pivoted. So you just
have to have the courage to start. I mean, look
at Judy, right, Yeah, We've pivoted so many times and
we'll keep pivoting because that's what successful people do. So
give yourself permission to pivot. I think I talk about
this a lot. Failing to pivot is such a huge mistake.

(01:08:33):
And recognizing when to pivot and when to not. I
mean that's a whole I talk about that as well,
and it's important to know that. But just knowing that
it's okay to make change, yeah right, just not stay
the course. We've learned this so many times, and we'll
continue to make mistakes, we'll continue to pivot, We'll continue
to change.

Speaker 1 (01:08:51):
Course, and that is what will make us successful.

Speaker 3 (01:08:54):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I mean we've done over JUNI you
do in every business. I mean I started, I used
to make Facebook videos, right, and no one today would
ever say, yeah, you make Facebook videos, like you know,
we just don't do that. You look at companies like Netflix,
and we both know Mark Randolph and he talks about
how they were a DVD company right, like they used
to mail DVDs.

Speaker 1 (01:09:15):
I know Mark wrote the forward to my book because
he can relate so much to.

Speaker 2 (01:09:20):
How how many mistakes they made right on the rise
of Netflix. And look, yeah they started mail order DVDs.
Now they're streaming company. Yeah, that's an insane pivot totally.

Speaker 3 (01:09:31):
It's so different. They're producing films now, they have their
own original slate that you know, it's unbelievable. And that
is the biggest thing everyone out there who's worrying about
having the perfect business plan is that actually you just
got to believe in something that you want to commit
your life to or commit the next couple of decades too,
in the area of what you're trying to do, Like

(01:09:52):
you know, they were trying to entertain and provide home entertainment,
and Netflix sending DVDs and being the platform it is
today is still home entertainment. And so if you have
a goal and a vision of how you're trying to
help and change the world like ours with Junior is
we want people to have healthy habits. We want people
to have healthy options. We want people to have happiness

(01:10:12):
in their life. We want them to have a happy mind. Yes,
and so if we want them to have that, that
could mean so many different things. It's you know, it's
bad when you just go, well, no, my only purpose
is to build this one thing. It's like, well no,
I'm standing for more. Talk to us about that of
when you need to pivot and when you know you

(01:10:32):
need to pivot and when you shouldn't. How do you
get that balance right?

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
I think you need to know if you have product
market fit, so if people are willing to buy the product,
you're in a great place. The way you know if
you need to pivot is are your sales declining or
no sales at all? I mean it's a revenue sign,
right Or are your sales dropping? Okay, well that's not
a good sign. You have to look outside and think, Okay,

(01:10:58):
the market's changing, the customers that something's changing, and I
have to find an area that I think I can
win in and be bold enough to be able to
try it right. Like I'm not saying overnight, pivot your
entire business, but you have to be able to start
and try and test and learn and adapt. And I

(01:11:18):
think today in the age of AI, so many things.
I mean, this isn't just pivoting businesses. This is pivoting
how you think in your mind, right because AI is coming.
So you need to develop an agile mind, flexible mind
that when something happens, which is going to do I
don't know what's going to happen, but your mentality is
that to adapt with it, and that will be the

(01:11:40):
game changer for so many people. But if you're just
trying to put your head in the sand, like I'm
just gonna do this, you will this will not end well.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
Yeah, yeah, right exactly. Yeah no. And again it comes
back to that data point of what you're measuring, because
if you're not looking at what customers are saying, it's
not If it's always about how you yell after you
do it or after you've built it, it doesn't really make
a difference. So it has to go back down to that.

Speaker 1 (01:12:06):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:12:06):
I love that, Kim. We end every episode of On
Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be
answered in one word to one sentence maximum. So, Kim Berrell,
these are your final five. The first question is what
is the best business or entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard
or received?

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
No one is successful alone.

Speaker 3 (01:12:28):
That's great. Great answer. Question number two, what is the
worst entrepreneurship advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
The worst advice that I've received is that you need
a lot of capital to start a business.

Speaker 3 (01:12:40):
And you don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:12:43):
I started my kitchen table.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
No, yeah, how much did you start with?

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
My grandma gave me a ten thousand dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
Loan and that's what it took.

Speaker 1 (01:12:51):
That's what it took to build one hundred million dollar company.

Speaker 3 (01:12:54):
That's incredible. That's truly incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
If I could do it, so can any anyone else
listening out there. You just have to have the courage
to do it, regardless of circumstance, regardless of everyone telling
you you can't. I was blessed to have my nanny
who bet on me, and that's why I pay it forward,
and that's why I invest in others, and I acknowledge
that it was an amazing gift.

Speaker 1 (01:13:14):
But you do not need a lot of capital to start,
especially today.

Speaker 3 (01:13:17):
I think a lot of people feel like it's hard
because they're like, well, I don't know how to code. Code
is cost a lot of money, Or I want to
build an app where I want to build something with
AI and I don't you know obviously to be able
to do that. So how how do you get your
head around that?

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
Like?

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
What does that take?

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
This is where you need You're not gonna be able
to do it alone.

Speaker 3 (01:13:33):
Yeah, you're gonna have to find.

Speaker 1 (01:13:34):
You're going to have to find someone to partner with.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
For me, once I got out of the mindset of
I'm a lone wolf, I'm going to build this, and
I hired and partner with the CTO and I had
a head of sales, Like, you have to find people
that compliment your weaknesses and your strengths, right, And that's
where the game changes. You're not gonna be able to
build if you're not a coder. You have to find
someone a partner that can, Right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:57):
I can't start a tech company and not be a CTO.

Speaker 3 (01:14:00):
Yeah that makes sense. Question number three, what's something you
used to believe to be true about entrepreneurship but it's
not true anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
I used to believe that skills be passion, and now
as an entrepreneur, passion beats skill.

Speaker 1 (01:14:18):
You can learn skills you cannot that passion.

Speaker 3 (01:14:20):
It's so good. You are the most passionate person I
know for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
And that will drive you to success regardless of circumstances.

Speaker 3 (01:14:27):
Do you know what? I couldn't agree more. That's such
a great I'm so glad you say that one. That's
a great one because I used to also hire people
based on skills, and now I hire people who are
passionate and coachable more than skills.

Speaker 1 (01:14:40):
You can learn. The skills always changing too.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
Like AI is changing what skills are needed, Like half
the skills would just get AI to do. So what
I need is a passionate person who's coachable, who wants
to learn and be adaptable. You're so right, great answer, really,
really great answer. I love that question. When you get
the answer fit, it's like, okay, you find so Yeah. No,
it's such a good one because I feel like, yeah,
for years I used to just hire people based on skills,

(01:15:02):
and then you either find out they're lying about the
skills or they don't really have the skills, or they
have the skills but then they're not passionate to learn
other skills, which you always need.

Speaker 1 (01:15:11):
You can't train passion.

Speaker 3 (01:15:12):
You can't train passion. You can't Okay, So that's a
question question before why can't we train passion? Where where
does passion come from? Where? What is that? That's a
great point, even if there's not a questioning it, it's
a great point.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
I think everyone has different passions.

Speaker 2 (01:15:26):
So it's just making sure that when you're hiring someone
they're passionate about your vision, because that passion will push
you through and I think that's most important as an entrepreneur.
That is what's going to keep you going after everyone
else is going to give up.

Speaker 3 (01:15:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Right, And so that passion is that red thread regardless
of circumstance, that that's.

Speaker 1 (01:15:48):
Going to put you and keep you going.

Speaker 3 (01:15:50):
Yeah. I love that. Fifth and final question. We asked
this that every guest who's ever been on the show,
if you could create one law that everyone in the
world had to follow, what we to be.

Speaker 1 (01:16:00):
I would say to be generous on every occasion.

Speaker 3 (01:16:04):
It's a nice one to let settle it. It almost feels
like we're at the opposite where we're always so scarce
with our energy, our time because everyone's struggling. It's hard.
Everyone in the book is called Mistakes that made Me
a Millionaire. How to Transform setbacks into extraordinary Success. Kim Parell,

(01:16:25):
go and grab your copy right now. Like I said,
the book is in the comment section. You can go
and order it right now. It's available. I am such
a fan of Kim as a human, such a fan
of Kim as a business person, and I truly believe
that this is the mentor that you've been looking for
that's gonna help you get over those mistakes and those
hurdles in your mind that keep coming up, whether it's

(01:16:47):
the noise in your head, the noise from outside, the
noise from family and friends. This book's going to help
you overcome that. Go and grab your copy right now.
You won't regret it. Kim, thank you so much for
tuning in and being here and just opening your heart
and sharing your mind and insights. It's always such a
joy to be with you, and I'm always you are

(01:17:09):
the person that I think of as having the most
and the best energy all the time, and so I'm
so glad that the world's going to get to experience
it through this beautiful book. So thank you. For writing it,
thank you for dedicating two years of your life of
putting in all two decades worth of insight into it.
So thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:17:28):
Thank you so much for listening to this conversation. If
you enjoyed it, you'll love my chat with Adam Grant
on why discomfort is the key to growth and the
strategies for unlocking your hidden potential. If you know you
want to be more and achieve more this year, go
check it out right now.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
You set a goal today, you achieve it in six months,
and then by the time it happens, it's almost a relief.

Speaker 1 (01:17:52):
There's no sense of meaning and purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:17:54):
You sort of expected it, and you would have been
disappointed if it didn't happen.

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