MADONNA: For the First Time Ever

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you don't have a spiritual life, you're never going
to stop and ask any questions. You're just going to
plow through life, and you're going to see everything that
happens to you as just a random event. I don't
believe that anything is random. I think everything that happens
to us is meant to happen to us to teach
us some kind of a lesson.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Number one Health and Wellness podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Jay Shetty, Jay shettyly Madonad Welcome to On Purpose. I
am so grateful to be here with you today. Thank
you for the honor and the opportunity.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
And thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
I'm really really happy to be with you. After lots
of FaceTime calls, yeah, and discussions about this conversation with.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Fine definitely be in person.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
Absolutely absolutely, And I wanted to start off by asking
you don't do a lot of interviews. We don't see
you doing interviews, maybe even for the last nine ten years,
and give or take, what's your intention for being here today?
Why now? Why today?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Well, in the past I've usually done I used to
promote my work, whether that's music or a tour or film.
But today I would like to talk about my spiritual
life and the spiritual path that I've been on for
over twenty eight years. This wisdom has helped me navigate

(01:20):
them the ups and downs of life. For lack of
a better expression, people ask me a lot through the years,
like what is the reason you're still saying? What is
the reason you keep going? Why have you not fallen
by the wayside like other people. Definitely a lot of
my peers who who are no longer with us like,

(01:43):
what would you say is the key? And I would
say that is my spiritual life. I absolutely would not
be where I am or who I am if I
did not have that. It's helped me enormously, as I said,
navigate the ups and downs of life. So I feel

(02:03):
like I would like to share that with people. So
that's really the point of I'm not here to promote
a product or I don't want anyone to buy anything.
I just I want to share something with people that
has pretty much saved my life. It sounds dramatic, but
it's true.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
Yeah, it seems like it's something that's extremely meaningful to
you and a deep part of your life that often
I feel you don't get to share in other spaces.
So even though it's been a part of your life
for nearly three decades, maybe you haven't shared parts of
it before. What would you have life look like if
you didn't find it.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
I would believe that the physical world is all there is.
I would believe all the illusions, and that would be
my downfall, and that is most people's downfall.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
What does spirituality mean to you? Because I think that
word itself means so many things to so many people.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
Yes, I mean a spiritual life, A spiritual path could
could be mean a lot of things. I know that
you have a spiritual path, and for me, it's not
really about like who's is the best or you know,
it's whatever works for you. I've been studying Kabbala for
twenty nine years, so since nineteen ninety six. Yeah, it's

(03:22):
a long time.

Speaker 3 (03:23):
It's a long time, and.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
I'm not a frivolous person. I don't suffer fools gladly.
If something if I think there's something false about it
or corrupt or not authentic, I wouldn't have stuck around
for so long. I've had the same teacher for all
this time. I feel like, almost like it's my responsibility

(03:47):
to share with people because I feel like, I feel
like people need guidance, people need enlightenment, And for me,
a spiritual life is having an internal life because you
know this, I'm sure you know. If we get caught
up in the belief system that our value in the

(04:09):
world is based on people loving us or other people's
approval or how much money you have, or how many
fabulous outfits you have or how many follows you have
on Instagram, those things don't make us happy. Those things
don't bring us peace. So having an internal life and
being able to look internally and having some kind of

(04:30):
practice whatever that might look like your prayer, your meditations,
that the time you take out of every day to
stop and take stock, like contemplate, we live in a
very busy, chaotic world, lots of noise, lots of distraction.
I mean, how many times have you heard people say, oh,

(04:51):
you know, social media and like all the you know,
people can't walk down the street without listening to music.
Everybody has to be visually stimulated all the time. I'm like,
there's no peace, there's no quiet. We're not comfortable being
quiet with ourselves and looking inward and asking ourselves why

(05:11):
am I here or what am I doing? Or what
is my intention in this specific choice I'm making right now,
whether it's about my work or the way I'm raising
my children, decisions that I make about everything, Really, I
have to ask myself. And if you don't have a
spiritual life, you're never going to stop and ask any questions.
You're just going to plow through life. And if you

(05:33):
just and you're going to see everything that happens to
you as just a random event. And I don't believe
that anything is random. I think everything that happens to
us is meant to happen to us to teach us
some kind of a lesson. But the question is are
you aware enough, are you awake enough? Are you interested

(05:53):
enough to find out what that reason is?

Speaker 2 (05:57):
Like?

Speaker 1 (05:57):
Why did this happen to me? What is my lesson?
I don't want to go through life seeing everything that
happens to me is random. But I also don't want
to go through life as a victim. And I've had
a pretty challenging life, and it's easy to fall into
the trap of feeling sorry for yourself or like being
a victim, or you know, why isn't this happening to

(06:18):
other people? Why is it happening to me, why don't
I have what that person has. I'm sure you know
the expression comparison is the killer of joy, So you know,
it's like, you got to get out of that game.
You have to have a spiritual life. You just have to.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
You're reminding me of something beautiful that I came across
called the third space theory. Have you heard of it.
It's this idea that as humans around fifty years ago,
we had three spaces. So we had work, we had home,
and then you had a temple, a synagogue, a church,
a community center, or a third space. And the point

(06:56):
of that third space, it's kind of what you're saying,
was a place that you could look back at work
and home and you could reflect on your life, you
could take stock, you could introspect. But as time's gone on,
what's happened is we lost that third space. We stopped
going to temple, church, community, whatever place of self reflection,
a place of self reflection, and we ended up with

(07:18):
working home, and then after the pandemic, we lost work,
and so now we're in one space and we don't
have a different advantage point to where we are anymore,
which is what I think you're saying.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Go back on even one more step. That to me
is like a prison. Get if you get, if you
remove the spiritual life, spiritual practice, you remove the workplace,
then you're in the home, and then removed once more
from home. Is you're looking at your phone, which is
even takes you out of home.

Speaker 3 (07:51):
It's a great point.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Yeah, so where are you aware?

Speaker 3 (07:55):
You're living in the virtual world. Yeah, we're living in
the virtual world, not even in the material world.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yes, but in virtual and a virtual world is not
a bad world. But if you don't have consciousness, there's
really no point to living.

Speaker 3 (08:07):
Yeah, it's yeah. So it's interesting to think about that
because I feel like everyone can relate to the idea
that if we all had we need physical spaces to
sometimes make us do internal things.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yes, I mean some kind of ritualistic behavior has to happen.

Speaker 3 (08:25):
What have been your rituals? I'm intrigued what I'm curious?
What are your spiritual practices and rituals that have been
so supportive and emblematic of your journey, that have kept
you going at the times. As you said, there were
so many times you could give up, or things could
go wrong, or you kept pushing and they kept you locked?
What were they? What are they? Well?

Speaker 1 (08:46):
One really important thing is studying, making time every week
to sit down and study. I mean, you can study
the Bible, you can study the poetry of Cahil Gibran,
or you can study the Vedas you you know.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
And you did that right. You actually studied different traditions.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
And I mean, to be honest, before I discovered Kabbala,
I was looking for answers.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
And why do you think that was? Why were you
looking for answers?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Because I had everything that people would assume would give
you happiness. I had successful career, I had fame, fortune,
monetary things, physical things. But I wasn't happy, and I
naturally sought out well. When I was a dancer, I

(09:39):
had a roommate. She was a Buddhist and she would
get up and chant every day, and so I was
very intrigued by that, Like nothing bothered her, you know
what I mean, Everything bothers me, Everything bothers me. I'm
you know, I'm a Leo, I'm Italian. I'm very dramatic.

(10:01):
I wouldn't say she was peaceful all the time, but
I was just struck by her confidence and her knowingness
that everything was happening for a reason. She never got
upset about things. And this is in the beginning of
my career when I was living in New York and
I was broke and a lot of crazy things happened
to me. It's really scary, traumatic things. And I would

(10:23):
always ask her her name is Marianne. I would always
say what, like why are you like never upset? So
I attributed that to her spiritual life, but it didn't
speak to me. And then later on I started practicing
yoga Ashtanga yoga and my teacher, Eddie Stern, he still
has a you know Eddie, Yeah, he's amazing. I got

(10:44):
quite caught up in and competitive about like first series,
second series, third series. But one thing I noticed is
that a lot of people would come into his practice,
his studio where he taught, and they wouldn't even do
the posts. They would just go and sit in front
of the statue of ganesh or light candles or prayer.
And I realized, and Eddie pointed it out to me

(11:06):
because sometimes I would have injuries, I would or I
would be traveling and I couldn't practice yoga, and he say,
look are you breathing, And I'd say yes, and he said,
you're practicing yoga. So I realized that I was too, still,
too caught up in the physical poses. He's like, no,
you don't understand. You're missing the whole point. The poses

(11:28):
are just something that you do to breathe through, to
calm your nervous system down and to bring you back
to your center. And that really spoke to me. There
was a big now it was a painting on the
wall of the yoga studio. It says desire and detachment.
And I said, what does that mean? And he said, well,

(11:50):
of course we want. We want all the beautiful things
in life. We want all the pleasures, we want, all
the happiness, we want every we want it all. There's
nothing wrong with that which can't be attached to it,
because then if you're attached to it and you don't
have it, what's going to happen to you? So I
studied that for a while, and I studied Sanskrit. I
had a teacher, and you know, I learned that the

(12:11):
vibrations of the letters, you know, had a calming effect
on your nervous system and centered you and placed you
firmly rooted in the earth. And all of that made
sense to me. But then again, nothing happens by accident.
But I was pregnant with my daughter, Lola, my oldest daughter,
and I suddenly realized I was living in la I

(12:34):
suddenly realized, I'm going to be responsible for an other
human being. What am I going to teach her? I'm
just I'm like a meteor like making my way through
the you know, the on this planet. Like you know,
I have great survival instincts, I have a great work ethic. Yes,

(12:54):
I'm very ambitious all of those things. But I was
never like I was just knocking him down, you know
what I mean, and not like looking back like I'm
going to be somebody, because that's you know, that's why
I came to New York in the first place. I
will never go back to the nobody life I had
when I was a child growing up. So I definitely

(13:19):
was fueled by an inner drive, but I would not
say that I was spiritual or conscious. When I was pregnant,
I suddenly realized I knew nothing and I was a
slave or a victim of other people's opinions of me.

(13:41):
And I didn't have really even though it looks like
and looked like I was confident, brave, audacious, whatever you know, I,
deep down inside it was not.

Speaker 2 (13:56):
So.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I was at a dinner.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Party while you were pregnant.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yeah, I was at a dinner party at my friends
in La and there was a woman sitting next to
me and I knew her vaguely. She's a costume designer.
She was a costume designer. Her husband's a director. And
she said, oh, you should come with me to class.
And I said, what class. I'm open to classes, by

(14:22):
the way, I love being a student. So what's the
class all about. She said, there's a teacher there. It's
something called Kabbala. It's next to a synagogue. And I
was like, wait, so he's Jewish and she said yeah,
but it doesn't have anything to do with being Jewish.
It's just a belief system, not a belief system, like

(14:43):
a philosophy about life that you know, you could learn
a lot from. And I said, okay, I'll go. So
I did, and that's how I met my teacher. And
I literally would sit in the back of class for years.
Mostly men were in the class at the time. It was,
but everything that he said seemed to make so much
sense to me and gave me courage to be who

(15:08):
I am and who I meant to be, and made
me actually think about intention and a real sense of purpose,
because my sense of purpose can't just be I want
to be rich and famous, or I want to be popular,
or I want to sell a lot of records, because
none of that lasts. But it wasn't until I went
to class that I actually started thinking about those things.

(15:30):
So I just kept going and here I am today.
But you know, motherhood are being a parent is really
what made me start asking questions that I most likely
I should have asked them sooner, but I didn't because
I was just caught up in my self.

Speaker 3 (15:49):
I love that story for so many reasons, one of
them being that my journey to my spirituality had certain
similarities in that. Not that I was pregnant, so definitely
not that one. But I had a friend and friends
who were starting to get interested in spirituality, and they
invited me to hear a monk speak. And I'd seen

(16:10):
monks while I was growing up, but i'd never really
engaged with one or really understood what they did or meant.
And I'm so glad I said yes to going along.
And I was very young. I was eighteen nineteen years old.
I wasn't even seeking. I was open and I was curious, right,
And to be honest, I was doing what everyone else

(16:30):
was doing at that time when you're eighteen nineteen year
old kid like you experimenting, experimenting and doing everything else
under the sun. But I'm so glad I went because now,
looking back, I find that after meeting the monks that
I met, it gave my life a compass at a
very early age that I'm so grateful for because it
changed the entire trajectory of my life. I can't imagine

(16:53):
what I would have ended up doing in the same
way as you did. And it sounds dramatic, but it's
true that without the group of friends that invited me
to go along and meet my teachers who would become
my future teachers, I can't imagine what life could be like.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
And are those teachers still your teachers?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
Yes? Absolutely, still since that time, so it's been nearly
twenty years now. That's meaningful, yeah, very meaningful.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
And are your friends that came with you still also studying.

Speaker 3 (17:22):
Or one of those one of those yes? Absolutely. One
of those friends was my best man at my wedding
and he studies under the same teachers.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
That's cool. Yeah, what about the woman who took me
to class? No, okay, no, sho stick with it.

Speaker 3 (17:36):
Are you still there at all or not? Yes?

Speaker 1 (17:38):
I am sometimes.

Speaker 3 (17:39):
Yeah. It's amazing to hear that you had this ambition
and this drive to become successful and at the same
time there was this spiritual calling. Yes, that was almost
happening simultaneously. How did you reconcile the two when to
the external lie they could look very opposite. How did

(17:59):
you actually right look weird?

Speaker 1 (18:01):
You mean, not weird in.

Speaker 3 (18:02):
The sense of I think a lot of people assume
that spirituality and success don't go together. A lot of
people would.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Think that's absurd. Those are narrow minded people. I mean,
you need to be spiritual to be successful. Success is
having a spiritual life period. It's interesting because I had
this boyfriend some time ago, and after we broke up,
we saw each other years later, and I was telling

(18:28):
him about Cabal. He's like, oh, yeah, that makes a
lot of sense because you grew up as a Catholic.
I know how religious your mother was. And I was like, no, no,
that's not what it is at all. It's got nothing
to do with religion. Everybody has to find the path
that speaks to them and resonates with them. But I
do think it's important to have one. And I dare

(18:50):
say if you didn't have a spiritual path, you wouldn't
be as successful as you are today. I will make
that assumption in your work, in your marriage, in your friendships,
all your relationships. It honestly, it sounds like a really
like a cliche your spiritual life. Even I was like
the reason, but it's just got a bad rap. You know, you,

(19:12):
like one hundred percent can have a spiritual life and
be successful. I wouldn't be here if I didn't have one.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
Let's talk about how your spiritual life has impacted your
different roles, because you played so many roles in life,
and let's start with artists, because that's what the majority
of our viewers and our audience will connect with you
on your spiritual life has directly impacted your art. When
did you feel it was first introduced to your art?

(19:39):
How was it introduced? How would you use it to
inspire your art?

Speaker 1 (19:43):
About a year after I started studying, I made my
Ray of Light album and that is one hundred percent
influenced by my study with spiritual practice, like a door
opened for me and I certainly and maybe I was
spiritual without knowing it unconsciously. But and some things happened.

(20:04):
I mean often things would happen where I would have
visions or I would get ideas and I would manifest them.
And if you're too busy to sit for a moment
and think, Wow, that's so amazing what just happened? I
channeled that, Like you don't actually know that you're tapping
into another dimension until you start paying attention to the other,

(20:25):
to the idea that there is more to life than
you and I sitting in this room on a chair,
Like if you believe in energy, and you believe in
universal laws, and you believe in quantum physics, like the
possibilities are endless, and miracles, the idea of miracles is
not a foreign concept. It's not a lucky strike, you

(20:47):
know what I mean. It definitely affected my work. I
became conscious of the fact that I was and am
I am channeling, Like that's what I'm doing. I don't
own it. It's not mine. I am a vessel for it.
I'm a vessel for this light, which in turn, my

(21:09):
goal is to share with other people now that I
can do that through my work. I can do that
through my music, I can do that through my relationships
with people. I can do that as a friend, I
can do that as a mother, as a parent. So
you realize that it can. It informs every part of
your life. But the one really important thing, well, one

(21:31):
of the many important things that my teacher taught me
was that I am not the owner of my talent.
I am the manager. As long as you keep that
consciousness and you're aware like people who run to say
I did that, that was my idea. I mean, you
created an opportunity for yourself by allowing yourself to be

(21:53):
a vessel for this. Call it what you like magic.
I think it's magic. I think when you channel artistic
ideas and you have creative visions, it's magic. And when
you think it overthink it, or you start thinking about
how much of that you own, you stop it. That's

(22:15):
why a lot of I would say, this is my
observation that a lot of people have these great kind
of meteoric careers and they rise up and they take
the world by storm, and they influence the masses, and
they and then they just something happens and they can't

(22:36):
handle the light and they're not even aware of it,
and in a way they fly too close to the
light and it burns them. Yeah, and I would say
that's really true about many of my peers that I had.
I was lucky enough to know them, whether that's Prince

(22:57):
or Michael Jackson or Jean michelle boskiat the painter like
the these are like people who had just were channeling, channeling,
But I also don't think they understood like the concept
of their their what they were channeling, and that you know,
there has to be some kind of restriction. There has

(23:19):
to be some kind of filament. There has to be,
you know, like people like to take drugs, right why
because it makes they're they're actually channeling light where there
you know, tripping on acid, but it's light with no restriction,
and then that's what kills you or burns you out

(23:40):
to the light. No, no, no, thank God.

Speaker 3 (23:44):
Because everybody was when everyone else was doing.

Speaker 1 (23:48):
The universe God, Honestly, people ask me that all the
time because I grew up when I came to New York,
when I was broke and I had no friends, know
where to live, no nothing, Really what protected me from
you know I was held a bit gunpoint, I was robbed,

(24:10):
like I was raped. I like, always horrendous things up
to me, But I just feel like I've always had
a guardian angel. It just it took me a minute
to figure out that how blessed I was and that
the universe was protecting me and looking out for me.

Speaker 3 (24:28):
Was that a realization that came after because I mean
when you talk, well, when you talk about the events
of I mean getting raped, being held at gunpoint, these
are extremely traumatic, stressful, I mean the most extreme tragic
events people could go through in their life. The realization
you're sharing today, How long talk to me about the

(24:51):
journey of having that experience and then getting to the
realization you just mentioned, because I'm assuming it's not immediate
and no.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Through that first there was just my determination that I
think I was so I had such an unhappy childhood
that whatever happened to me in New York City, I
was like, whatever happens to me is better than what
my life was. So I'm gonna I'm sticking around. I'm
not going back. But you see, the worst things that

(25:22):
happened to you are the best things that happened to you.
Because if that had if my childhood hadn't been what
it had been, if I had lost my mother, if
I hadn't had all of these challenges as a child,
I would have thought of my home as a place
of comfort and I would have gone back. But I didn't.
So that's what kept me going. And then you know,

(25:43):
there are challenges in my career though. Even though I
was very successful, I went through many periods of time
where the press was beeeding up on me. I was demonized.
What kept me going? I don't I don't know, like
I said Guardian Angels, But again I wasn't conscious of
it until I was pregnant. Then I start to see,
like everything started to like come into focus for me.

(26:06):
But it's not. I make it sound like it's an
easy thing, like studying, Like the more you know, the
harder everything is, and the more enlightened you try to become,
the more conscious you try to become, the more tests
you have, the more you know. It's like why, Like
the more you know, the more you realize you don't know,

(26:28):
and the more you aspire to be conscious, the more
you feel like everyone's trying to drag you down and
take you out of it and convince you that it's
not true or you know the tests, Yeah, and you
know life is a test, let's face it.

Speaker 4 (26:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:46):
I was thinking about, as you were saying that a
bit earlier, of managing that balance between recognizing you are
a manager of the light and you are not the
light itself. I was thinking of this story about Marcus
Aurelius where he was followed around the Roman town square

(27:07):
by an assistant, and the assistant's only job was to
whisper in his ear, You're just a man, You're just
a man, because people would praise him, and people would
shower him with accolades and compliments, and the assistant would
remind him. And it said that that was done so
that he could always remain grounded. I can imagine for
you to not fall into the trap of believing you're

(27:29):
the light is extremely difficult when you're one of the
best selling artists of all time, when, like you said,
you name the company, there's only the Beatles, yourself, Michael Jackson,
that sit in this esteemed group of individuals who've achieved
incredible things. How did you hold on to that beautiful

(27:53):
belief that you're not the light and your manager of
the light when anyone else could easily believe they were.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
By continuing to have a spiritual practice spiritual life, by
continuing to study like always pulls you back two center.

Speaker 3 (28:11):
Were you able to keep it up when you were
like on tour or when you're building you albums? Wow?

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Everyone crazy? My manager's like, why can't we have shows
on this night? Or why are you late? Because I'm
because I'm praying? Like what you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Like, would you.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
People who are only focused on absolutely pray before every show,
But people are focused on making money are definitely not
focused on spiritual life. You have to have your feet
in both worlds.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
And I literally wouldn't do a show on a day
because that that was your study day.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Yeah, or I would be late. Yeah, I get a
lot of shit for being late.

Speaker 3 (28:53):
Walk me through.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Honestly, it's really hard to balance being a parent, having work,
having a spiritual life. You're you're constantly juggling. You know,
there's it's not there's not a lot of time to rest.
And if people don't recognize that, then they're just going
to look at you in a very one percent, like
superficial way and go you're late. It's like but you
don't understand what I was doing before I got I

(29:17):
became late.

Speaker 3 (29:35):
I want to talk about how spirituality affected you your
role as a mother. Obviously you said that becoming a
mother yourself is actually what even began that enlightenment. It
kind of began that journey. It felt like a responsibility,
It felt like a moment of change.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
How is well, my mother died after giving birth to
all my brothers and sisters, so literally, like the year
after my youngest sister was born, my mother died. So
I always equated motherhood with death. So and I also
equated it with I could see she was not happy.
I could see she wasn't living the life she wanted

(30:14):
to live. I equated it with death, or I equated
it with no freedom, or I equated it with no
life except taking care of other people. And so when
I started, when I came to New York and I
started my career, I was like, no, this is not
for me. I don't want to be a mother. I
don't want that. I wasn't saying it out loud, but
I was thinking that, like, why would I give all

(30:36):
of this up? I worked so hard for it. Well,
one day I found that I was pregnant and I
and I had been running away from it for so long.
And I wouldn't say I was in a stable relationship,
but I loved her father, so I wasn't really thinking
it through. But I was like, Okay, this happened. This

(30:57):
happened to me, so it's meant to happen to me.
But honestly, what the hell am I going to teach
my daughter? Like, how am I going to guide her?
I've just been living this, you know, completely selfish life
really that you know turned out good in many ways,

(31:17):
but in reality, I was doing everything for my own self.
And I also kind of thought, well, you know, okay,
I'm pregnant, so I'm going to be a mother, so
I'll figure it out. I'll work it out. But honestly,
I was scared shitless and I wasn't in a traditional relationship.
And once again, like this is the story of my life.

(31:38):
I keep finding myself in unconventional or untraditional or unusual
or unfamiliar places, and I have to keep adjusting. And
I say that, I would say that that is also
the reason that I'm still here and still going and
have the strength to fight things or just to survive

(32:03):
because being too comfortable in life, I would say, is
the downfall of a lot of people who started off
taking chances, taking risks.

Speaker 3 (32:13):
Is that something success does to you? Do you think
where in the beginning you take risks and you get it.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
I feel like that happens to other people, not me.
I think I've always been felt like an outsider in life.
I felt like an outsider growing up in Michigan. I
felt like an outsider when I came to New York.
I felt like an outsider when I moved to LA
and had my Hollywood life. You know, I always felt

(32:39):
like I did when I was in high school. I
don't fit in, and not fitting in is what saves you,
and that you know studying Kabala, No nobody else was
interested in it, not my friend group, And if I
would speak about it to people, they'd be like, oh,
that's really interesting. Having a spiritual life isn't necessarily going
to make you popular, but if you're a conscious person

(33:02):
searching for truth, then it's going to be interesting. Like
I'm interested in your spiritual path, your spiritual life. I
want to know what you do, what it does for you.
I want to know how you do it because I'm curious,
and curiosity and being an outsider, and those are the
things that actually save you, even though it's not supported

(33:26):
in our society to think outside the box, to take
the road less traveled by, to not be so concerned
with approval public approval. And now we live in a
world where everyone follows algorithms, and algorithms are the opposite

(33:48):
of taking chances. They are the opposite of being unique.
They're the opposite of spiritual life. They're the opposite of consciousness.
That's why artificial intelligence cannot duplicate consciousness. It can duplicate
doing things following formulas, but it can't duplicate consciousness. So

(34:10):
now have we gotten really?

Speaker 3 (34:11):
After that, I love it, thought it's great to be
in your stream of consciousness, and that on that point
I will get back. But I often get asked the
question right now when I'm on panels of do I
ever believe that AI will have a soul? And my
response is always I just hope that the people who
are building AI have a soul, because yeah, ultimately it's

(34:33):
becoming a reflection of whatever is inside of us. But
I digress, going back to going back to how gone
you're going to say no.

Speaker 1 (34:40):
You're you're right, yep, the people who make it, but are.

Speaker 3 (34:44):
They Yeah, that's the most important part.

Speaker 1 (34:46):
That's the scariest part.

Speaker 3 (34:48):
Yeah, the intention and the purity and consciousness.

Speaker 1 (34:52):
Yeah, yeah, I just repeat that like a mantra. Consciousness
is everything. Consciousness is everything, but a lot of people
don't even know what that is.

Speaker 3 (35:00):
Became a mom and you're trying to teach your children
about I guess I'm assuming you will. Yeah, you wanted
to pause some of these teachings on.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah, I mean they grew up learning it and studying it,
studying or listening to me, study with my teachers, or
listening to other people, and they would bounce back and
forth between thinking it was silly or something weird that
mom does, or but I see that it has impacted
all of them.

Speaker 3 (35:27):
What makes you see that because they study.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Not all of them. But I feel like my children
who have a spiritual life are happier than the ones
who do not.

Speaker 3 (35:39):
But obviously they could start at any time. It could happen.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
I'm not you know, there's no cohercion and spirituality like
if you either it speaks to you or it doesn't.

Speaker 3 (35:48):
I remember my dad was trying to get us to
do things for so long, and you rejected it so hard, because.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
Yes, well that's the other thing. Children always reject their
parents the path they followed, their belief systems. They think
it's stupid, and then they are they come back around
a little bit totally. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
Yeah, there's that famous quote that says, the day you
realize your parents were right, your kids are telling you
that you're wrong. And I think it's en often when
experienced that people have. Yeah, how did kabbala impact your
and your spiritual practice impact your role as a daughter, because,
like you said, you lost your mother when you were five.

Speaker 1 (36:29):
To a certain extent, I resented my father growing up
because I felt like he wasn't present for us emotionally.
He did have a lot of responsibilities, and I's a
deeply Catholic person, but I don't I felt like he
followed his spiritual path or he followed Catholicism because that's
how it was, that's how he was raised, that's how

(36:50):
it was done when I was growing up. If I
wanted to ask a question about why do we do this,
why are we genuflecting, why are we receiving the body
and blood, of Christ. Why is my father didn't have
an answer, He'd just say that's what is written. And
what drew me to Kabala was that I could ask
questions and there were answers and questions were invited, which

(37:13):
is the opposite of how it was brought up. So
I thought I looked at my father as kind of
like a religious robot, you know what I mean. Not
that he's not a good person, but I didn't want
to be a robot, and especially having a spiritual life,
I started to see my father as a human being

(37:35):
and see that he was a human that made mistakes
and that he did the best with what he was
taught he was given. When those cylinders start clicking in
your head, you start to have a lot more compassion,
not just for your parents, but for all people who
don't see life the way you see it, that you
don't agree with. It brought me to a place where

(37:59):
I could have more compassion for him.

Speaker 3 (38:02):
I mean that seems like a really big gift, yeah,
to have the understanding, and I could agree. I think
spiritual context create so much compassion when you are able
to zoom out and look at someone's life like I
remember the moment I really had compassion for my dad
was when I visited the home he grew up in,

(38:24):
which was this room. I mean, I can't even compare
it to this. His home was like probably just from
here to here, like his entire home and they shared
a bathroom with twenty thirty families. Yeah, and we went outside.
I was nine years old. We're in India and there's

(38:44):
cockroaches around us in Pune, and there's cockroaches around his home.
There's bats in the you know, and it's just like
and inside. And I was nine years old and I
couldn't believe that. You know, that's when my dad grew up.
And it was almost like something clicked where I was
like I, unless I saw that, I wouldn't have had
that experience because it was always easier to assume that

(39:07):
their life.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
Yeah. Well that's the thing, like I say to my
kids all the time, like you're judging me by the
chapter you arrived in, Like this is not how my
life has been, and it's really hard for kids to
see that.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah. Yeah, going there was probably one of the best
things that ever happened to me, because it's what you're saying.
I was able to go to a previous chapter in
someone's life. And even though my childhood we went well
to do or we didn't have anything, but we didn't
have a lot. Going to see that, I was like,
oh gosh, my life is a million times better than this,

(39:40):
and having that context was huge for me. I want
to hear about how you were able to apply these
principles in the difficulty of the big things you're talking about,
because whether it's reconnecting with our parents, whether it's recovering
from being raped, whether it's dealing with these challenges you've
dealt with. As you said, it doesn't up and overnight.

(40:00):
It's not easy. It is the level of study and work.
But talk to me about the emotional journey of shifting
from a victim to whatever you would call this on
the other side, because it would be very natural for
anyone to feel that way. I want to hear about
the emotional journey and the spiritual journey you went on.

(40:21):
What were some of the steps or stages that you
saw that if anyone is listening or watching, can recognize
and potentially well.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
The first thing is you're suffering all the time if
you don't have a spiritual life, like you're just suffering
all the time, and you really think that whatever is
happening to is like something that's never going to end,
and you drew the wrong.

Speaker 3 (40:42):
Card, you know, That's how you feel.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
That's how I used to think. And even now since
I've been studying, there's been times where I've been really
challenged and really suffered in certain situations, and I if
I didn't have a spiritual life, I don't know how
I wanted. You know, there were moments in my life
where I wanted to cut my arms off. I wanted

(41:07):
I actually contemplated suicide. And that probably sounds really weird
coming from me, because I'm not that I'm not emo,
you know what I mean. But I was like, I
can't take this pain anymore. But as soon as you
understand that what's happening to you is a challenge that
you are karmically meant to experience and learn from and

(41:30):
evolve to a higher level of consciousness, then you can
look at that event, that experience as a lesson and
not punishment.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
What pain at the time pushed you to that place
of potentially wanting to take your own life.

Speaker 1 (41:48):
I mean, I don't, I don't, I don't. I'm not
in the blame game. That's the thing. I used to
be that way, and I used to always want to
seek a and you know, somebody did did me wrong,
or I would pronounce loudly, oh well, you know, they'll

(42:10):
get their own karma. Well whatever, you know what I mean.
And even knowing about karma doesn't mean you're a grown up,
that doesn't mean you're not being a victim. But I
would say probably one of the most painful moments in
my life where I honestly couldn't see the forest through
the trees for the trees, was when I went through

(42:32):
a custody battle with my son and I you know,
even though my marriage didn't work out. I mean a
lot of people marriages don't work out. They marry their
own people. They're not aligned, they're not meant for each other.
Someone taking trying to take my child away from me
was like they might as well just kill me. That's

(42:56):
really how I was thinking. And I was on tour
at the time, so I had to go on stage
every night. I would just be lying on the floor
of my dressing room sobbing. I really thought it was
like it was the end of the world. I couldn't
take it. I just couldn't take it. But thank god,
I don't feel that way anymore. And I had to

(43:19):
keep you know, studying, Like, continuing my studies and continuing
on my spiritual path like helped me to understand that,
you know, the enemy is within. You know, lots of
people do lots of bad things and make a lot
of bad choices, or make choices that cause other people pain,

(43:40):
suffering or chaos or whatever. But at the end of
the day, I needed to learn some lessons. And I
can see that with the benefit of hindsight, but I
couldn't see it at the time. And also I was
abandoned as a child by my own mother, and so

(44:02):
losing a child like it was like life repeating itself.
I couldn't accept it, and so it caused me a
lot of suffering, and not being able to accept things
causes all of us a lot of suffering. So yes,
and now you know, I'm happy to say that I'm
really good friends with my son. But I couldn't see

(44:24):
it then. I really thought it was the end of
the world. So, you know, thank god I had a
spiritual life.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Was the lesson radical acceptance.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Yeah, exactly. It took me a long time, actually several years.
Radical acceptance is just accepting that what is happening to
you is meant to happen to you, and that you're
going to be okay. I mean, it's not an instant thing.

(44:53):
There's no such thing as an instant thing. There's no
way we're going to escape suffering. Even if we grow
up with wealth privilege, and you know it didn't grow
up in a small room. You know, our challenges and
our suffering is going to come to us in a
different way. I can give you another example of radical acceptance,
and that is and this is something that my teacher

(45:14):
shared with me about a year and a half ago.
I was rehearsing for my tour, a tour and I
I got a bacterial infection and I one minute I
was alive and dancing around, and the next minute I
was in the ICU unit of a hospital. And I
woke up from being unconscious for four days, I got

(45:38):
out of the hospital. They took me off of you know,
the ventil Later, I started to breathe on my own,
and I had something that's something it's called sepsis, and
it's like it can kill you and everybody recovers at
a different rate, and so you know, I've always seen
myself as superwoman. So I was like, oh, I'm gonna
I'm gonna, this is gonna I'm gonna kick this. I'm

(45:59):
going to be good. I'm getting back into rehearsals. And
I had no strength, I had no energy. I couldn't
get out of bed, and I didn't know when it
was going to end. And I used to talk to
my teacher all the time, and he's like, the sooner
you accept what's happening to you, and that you don't
know when it's going to end, the sooner it's going
to end. That made so much sense to me, and
of course it did. But I mean I've heard some

(46:22):
people never recover from it completely, never recover and have
their like full health again. So again, it's the same idea,
same concept, like if you sit around feeling sorry for yourself,
oh well, woe is me? Or poor me? Or this
is like I don't accept it, I will not accept it. Well,

(46:44):
then you're just going to be swimming and suffering.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
You're reminding me of something I read in a it's
not a spiritual book, but it has a similar message.
It's called Culture Code by Daniel Coyle, and he talks
in this book about how when soldiers were out a war,
a lot of them wanted to believe they'd be back
by Christmas, and there were the others that accepted that

(47:09):
they had no idea when they were going to get home.
And he talks about that those who accepted that they
had no idea when they were going to get home
were actually happier and were able to endure what they
were going through a lot easier than those who hoped
they'd get back on Christmas and then yeah, didn't.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yes, it's like the Victor Frankel book.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Yes and Such for me, Yeah, yeah, exactly, And it's
such it's when when I hear it from those really
extreme scenarios, you're like, wow, if Victor Frankel can think that,
you know, in the experience that he had, you go okay, well,
and Edith eager with the gift and you go wow,
like yeah, if you can have that experience there, then

(47:50):
then there must be some truth to that, because how
could you accept that when it was when you were
going through the worst. Yeah, yeah, it's really really tough
going back to your experience of that, What would you say,
because you mentioned karma there and this idea of choices
we make and lessons we need to learn, and karma

(48:12):
almost being this experience of learning the lessons. How do
you see karma? How do you define karma from your
learnings and studies? And let's stop there, and then I'll
ask the second question after that.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
My personal understanding is that our souls choose the lives
that we are born into the circumstances we are born into,
that our souls are perfect, but then we're born into
a life which is one challenge after an next after
the next, and that our journey is to navigate and

(48:51):
to see that each challenge that happens to us is
our karmic destiny. It's energy, the law of its quantum physics,
it's caused and effect. Whatever's happening to me that might
be uncomfortable is obviously meant to happen to me to
teach me a lesson. And if I don't learn that

(49:12):
lesson at that point, it's going to come up again
and again and again until I learn it and accept
then it's a lesson, not a punishment. So that's how
you get out of victim mentality.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
Also, what was the lesson that kept repeating for you
and took you a bit longer than you would have
liked to learn. What was the one that kept showing up?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Betrayal or abandonment Sometimes they go hand in hand, but
it really kept me like I saw a lot of
people or I felt and experienced it. I was constantly
being either abandoned or betrayed. So that kept me in

(49:58):
a state sometimes off, often like feeling sorry for myself,
stuck in a place of blaming others and not taking
responsibilities for well, how did I bring this upon myself?
Or why asking the question well, why is this happening
to me? Over and over again? Obviously I need to

(50:18):
learn something. I think everybody if they think about it,
like what is the thing that always comes back to you?
Or like for everybody it's something different. Obviously, I think
the abandonment thing was the greatest lesson to that I
could teach me that I could stop being destroyed by

(50:39):
it or paralyzed by it. Was to think of all
like how am I not showing up for other people?
How am I abandoning other people?

Speaker 3 (50:51):
How am I abandoning myself?

Speaker 1 (50:53):
How long have I been not listening to myself, my
inner truth, my inner voice. Yes, and we all say
goodbye to our inner selves at some point or another
until something wakes us up. Push has to come to
shop for everybody, there's just no way to escape it.
So that's something that as a concept that you have

(51:15):
to get your head around. There's no running away from
being tested. There's no running away from experiencing pain, suffering,
whether it's physical or emotional. I mean, and that obviously
that takes life experience and living and you know, going

(51:36):
everything's going well for me, I'm so happy, everything's great.
Oh no, this is like, this is a failure. People
are writing negative shit about me, like you know, or
this relationship ended, or this person cheated on me or this,
you know, like all these things that happened to you.
Rejection like and then you go and you go, no,

(51:57):
I'm not happy. If you're going to go through life
like being a slave to these like ups and downs,
you're just going to be like, I don't know how
you can last, obviously, I mean it's obvious to me.
I don't know if it's obvious to you or anybody
who's watching this, But I don't know how we can
maintain our sanity, and especially now. I mean when people

(52:21):
lived simpler lives and we didn't see what was going
on in the world, and we didn't like we weren't
so connected like we are because of technology and the
end of the internet whatever, it's hard not to get
like anxious or start blaming or taking sides or feeling

(52:43):
you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
Yeah, I loved I loved what you said. This one
line will stay with me for a long time. I
really really thought it was beautiful. You said we all
say goodbye to our in ourselves at some point, and
that really landed because that's why it feels like we're
coming home to ourselves when you and I think everyone
who's listening and watching can if they've started their spiritual journey,

(53:08):
they've started their reconnection journey. They know what that feeling's like,
where it's like, yeah, wait, when I left myself and
now I'm coming back to myself.

Speaker 1 (53:18):
Yes, I always say, what was I thinking before? I
was thinking? Right, I don't even know, So I was
just thinking about myself. But ironically and paradoxically, when you're
just thinking about yourself and consume with yourself, you're actually
not connected to yourself at all, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (53:40):
Yeah, how did it change now when you go through
betrayal or you go through rejection, or any of those
things that you talked about. How do you process it
differently now with your spiritual practices than you did before.
What's the different experience you have of it?

Speaker 1 (53:55):
Well? I spend less time feeling sorry for myself, being
a victim blaming, and more time thinking, okay, why did
this happen to me? What's the lesson? I mean, I
go to that sooner well than I did before.

Speaker 3 (54:11):
What's the difference between self blame and accountability? Because I
feel a lot of people fall into the trap of
now you don't go and blame other people, but you
blame yourself and you go, I messed up. I should
have chosen right, I should have done that.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
Okay, Well, self reflection and acknowledging and being accountable for
your behavior. It's not the same as feeling guilty. That
feeling guilty is just you're consumer with your.

Speaker 3 (54:32):
Ego flaming yourself.

Speaker 1 (54:34):
Yeah, so you're not going to get anywhere with that.
That just stops any kind of growth from happening.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
It's pretty amazing to say that you can speed up
to that point of asking yourself that question of what
can I learn from this? I mean, that's the ultimate question.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Yeah, And believe me, it's not something that stays with
me all the time. So sometimes I forget and I'm like,
I'm doing this again. I'm doing it again. I'm falling
back into a familiar pattern. Yeah. But if you don't know,
then you're not like it's important to know again, not
beat up on yourself. Well, okay, I made a mistake.

(55:10):
What can I learn from it? Swallow your pride? How
your eager to shut up?

Speaker 3 (55:17):
Basically, you mentioned the word manifesting earlier and channeling and
being a vessel, and I wanted to ask you because
manifesting becomes very popular in the world today as a concept.
It's at least out there people understand the word. Now.
When people would look at your career, they would assume
you've manifested incredible amounts of successful yourself, incredible amounts of

(55:44):
wins and all the rest of it. Talk to us
about your process of manifestation. What does it actually look like.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
If you're manifesting things and you're not conscious that it's
a gift from the universe, from the life from the creator,
whatever you want to call it. If you're not aware
of that and you're not conscious, then okay, you you
invented something great, you created this thing that now is

(56:14):
selling billions. But everything becomes finite when you're not manifesting
with the with the consciousness that you are channeling something.
You don't own it. So that's a big thing.

Speaker 3 (56:34):
Sure, So whatever.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
So if I have a successful show, if I have
successful if anything happens to me successfully like it is
perceived as a success in the outside world, I just say,
you know, that's how blessed am I. I manifested that
with the help of God. I didn't do it on

(56:59):
my own. I do nothing on my own. And if
if you think you're manifesting on your own in your
you're like an ostrich with your head in the sand,
and there will be an end to whatever you're manifesting.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
So if someone desires something, they've got to recognize that
it's not their hand, it's something that they're willing to become.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
Well.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
I mean, it requires work to be conscious, It requires
work to see that you're channeling something and being a
vessel for something. So you do have your part in it,
but you're not on your own. That's the point.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
And a lot of us feel like, I'm going to
do this. When I do this, I'll get this, and
when I get this, then I will be this person that's.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
Desire for selfish reasons. You're you know, manifesting success is
whenever you want something for the sake of sharing, when
you want something just for yourself, Like I'll be happy
when I have ten bugattis and a mansion in every
major city and I'm the brand ambassador of Louis Vuitton.

(58:13):
No sense to Louis Vuitton, just throwing that out there,
but you know what I mean, Like those things like
really make people happy, but it's short lived and sooner
or later. Everybody comes to that realization anyways. It's just
whether it's sooner or later. And these are the things.
I talk about this in our studies. You know, let's
get back to why I'm here, and my intention is

(58:35):
to share my spiritual life with people. We talk about
in our studies, we talk about manifesting, and we talk
about being a channel, and you know, I share in
one of the studies, I talk about writing my first song,
for example, and how I taught myself how to play

(58:57):
the drums, and I my friend, my boyfriend at the time,
was in a band, and he taught me how to
play guitar, like just simple chords, and when nobody was around,
I would start playing with all the instruments and start
without thinking, without any like I'm going to be this
or I'm going to be that. Let me just I

(59:18):
just sat down and wrote a song for the first time,
and I was and I was very conscious at that
moment after it happened, where did that come from? Well?
How did that happen? I didn't grow up with musicians.
I didn't grow up with songwriters, no one. I didn't
have a goal to be that. Where did it come from?

(59:39):
And so when you start like opening your eyes to that,
where did how did that happen? Where did that come from?
Then you see you see the possibilities, You see the
magic of the universe of life, and you see that
you know that was that was a gift. Some angels
showed up in my room and you know what am

(01:00:02):
I going to do with that gift? So these moments
happened to you throughout life. They happen to everybody, whether
you're saving someone's life or you have this incredible idea
for some life saving invention. You know what I mean.
We're all blessed with those moments, and it's you know,
it's really the important thing is to acknowledge where that

(01:00:24):
came from. That's really manifesting.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
I love that. That's my favorite explanation and manifestation I've
ever heard. Truly, it really is, because I think what
often happens in substitute of what you said is we
have an idea and then we try and manufacture that
set of inputs and outputs again to get that again,

(01:00:48):
and then it doesn't work, and then we're confused because like,
wait a minute, last time I did this and did
this and did this, then I got this, and now
I'm trying to do it again, and then you get
stuck because now you think you can't do it. But
the reality is that's just a very functional way of
looking at something that's far beyond input output and manufacturing.

(01:01:11):
You can't manufacture to manifest it doesn't make sense. No, Yeah,
I really really like that. I really really appreciate that definition,
and I think that's going to help a lot of
people because I think the way it's being talked about
right now is just being be clear about your goals
and be really clear about what you want. And I
mean that's important too.

Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Say out loud what you want out of life. That
is important, but it's it's you're in a partnership that
that's really what's important to remember. Yeah, and we become
our environments as well, So we want to surround ourselves
with people who with like minded individuals. And if you
are around people who also are attaining to reach a

(01:01:55):
higher level of consciousness or want to know the deeper
meanings of life, or want to look inward and figure
out why what their karmic destiny is, or even taken
to consideration the idea of karma. I mean you need
that also because if you don't have that support system,
then you can also fall back into the trap of

(01:02:16):
recreating formulas at work or trying to capture some magical
moment and make it magic again. And that's just our
ego taking over and telling.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Us, you know, I did that, I did that, I
can do it again. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:02:51):
One of my favorite ways of thinking about it, especially
when you said it's a partnership, is when we look
at the universe, everything's always said, so the sun's providing
light and heat. Waters obviously giving us life, oxygen exists,
trees are giving us shade and fruits and flowers, and

(01:03:11):
so in order to really be in partnership with the universe,
one has to want to serve because everything is designed
to serve and give, and everything's designed to give and
serve and provide. And so when we're not serving, we're
actually acting against the universe because everything in the universe
is designed simply to give. We're wired for generosity but

(01:03:33):
educated for greed, and when that juxtaposition comes up against itself,
it just creates friction. It's like, we all feel better
when we do something for someone else. Absolutely, we all
feel more joy when you take care of someone in need,
more than if you did it for yourself. And the
science and the research backs up as well. This isn't
some woo woo spiritual idea.

Speaker 1 (01:03:54):
No, absolutely the truth.

Speaker 3 (01:03:56):
But it's amazing how our conditioning and education is so
the oppos it that we will believe.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
That every man for himself.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
Yeah, yeah, that's the statement. No, how much unconditioning does
it take for us to lose the every man for
himself mindset? What does that look like in your spiritual practice?

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
And journey especially and not fall back into that trapuing
to continue to have a spiritual life, spiritual practice, to study,
to stop every you know, whether every day, once a
week you people don't have some kind of ritualistic moment
in their life, like I said, whether it's every day

(01:04:36):
or a few times a week, that like, what's going
to stop you? You know what I mean? You have
to have that moment where you're thinking about what you've done,
thinking about what you'd like to do, thinking about what
you know. Have I capitalized on the opportunities that have
come my way, not monetarily spiritually like what did I

(01:05:03):
do to help someone? What have I done for others?
I mean, that's really the only way you can be
successful in life.

Speaker 3 (01:05:13):
What were you trying to channel when you were creating
in your music and what were you trying to do
to help people? What was well?

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
In the beginning, I just wanted to be somebody. I
just wanted to be somebody like I wanted to have
a voice. I wanted to make a difference in the world.
But I wasn't clear about what that meant. Now I'm
clear about what it means.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
What does it mean today that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Everything I say has weight and gravity, and that words
are powerful and actions are powerful. And I always ask
myself like why am I doing this? Why do I
want to? Why is this song important to me? Why
is this performance important to me? Why is this conversation
we're having right now important to me? That's really the

(01:05:55):
difference is like having intention and conscious we're really like
I'm repeating myself over and over again. I can't think
of other words that capture that, but self awareness. Self
awareness doesn't really do it because self awareness kind of
implies like selfishness, you know what I mean, a day
at the spa, not that that's not something to be enjoyed.

(01:06:18):
I could I could use sure my roof has been
leaking for a month. Yeah, I want to go to
the spot. That's okay, But that's not going to bring
me lasting happiness.

Speaker 3 (01:06:30):
Well, I think that's the reality of it, right, Like
when you look at your experience, there's this everyone's experience
is this paradox where it's like you have the highest
highs the lowest lows. You have a life that of
course you need everyday self care, but there's also what
is lasting happiness and these bigger questions we all live
in this world, but we're not of this world. It's

(01:06:51):
it's almost like everything that it makes more sense to
recognize it's both and as opposed to either.

Speaker 1 (01:06:59):
Raw well, you have have to live in the paradox. Yeah,
it's like the greatest amount of light is where there's darkness,
and you can reveal the most amount of light when
you're in a dark room. You turn on the light.
When you're in a room that's already light, what do
you There's no effort made, So should we look for darkness?

(01:07:19):
You know what I mean? Should be but no, But
when we are in that space where we're feeling dark,
where we're feeling an absence of light, an absence of hope,
an absence of inspiration of vision, then you have to
Those are the moments, the challenging moments, where you say,
you have to say to yourself, this is my opportunity

(01:07:41):
to bring light to a dark place. You know, spiritual
wisdom is not helpful when everything's going your way. It's
helpful when you're challenged and when you're happy. It's it's
helpful to remember that at any given time, in any moment,
it could be gone. So don't take it for granted.

(01:08:04):
Have humility, be grateful when things are going your way,
and when you're being tested, also be grateful. That's a
hard one. That was a hard one for me. It
still is, but I'm glad that I know what I know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
One of the key aspects of this beautiful study series
that you've created is we've talked about some of the
themes today. We've talked about karma, there's manifestation, there's desire,
there's all of these themes that exist, and one of
the big ones that really stood out to me was forgiveness.
Because you know, when I listened to you today and

(01:08:42):
I even watched the studies that you created that I'm
hoping our audience will go and watch and appreciate and
learn from as well. You've conquered and continue to try
to conquer some really difficult emotions, like really really difficult things.
And I feel like forgiven for us in the world
today is probably one of the hardest things for us.

(01:09:05):
Whether we've been betrayed, whether we've been lied to, whether
we've been exploited, whether we've been taken advantage of. And
we always hear the age old phrase of forgiveness is
for you, it's not for them. And you hear these things,
but it's my wait who says that it's I mean,
it's common like verbiage that exists in the world at
least of this idea that you know, don't hold on

(01:09:27):
to grudges.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
Well, you shouldn't, We shouldn't, and it is ultimately liberating
for us to forgive. But obviously the world benefits from
our empathy, our ability to forgive.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Talk to us about that conditioning.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
I'm a fighter. You know, if somebody messes with me,
they're going to get it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:47):
That's I've always been like that.

Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Yes, but you know, when things happen to you and
there's not a tangible enemy that you can like put
your finger on, like what are you going to do?
You absolutely into radical exceptions, but you know there's there
are things, you know, there are things that have happened
to me in my life that I just thought I
will never I will never forgive this person. I will

(01:10:10):
never Now, I just don't. I don't want to have
those feelings anymore because they're really it's a prison, and
it's poison to not be able to forgive and to
live in a state of like holding a grudge or
hating someone or wanting them to suffer. It's like a

(01:10:31):
kind of poison. It's like a kind of cancer. And
that's why it's important to find a way to forgive,
even people that you perceive as your biggest enemies for
a really long time. It was my brother who died recently,
because I think the hardest ones are the people that
you feel like you're the like, they're you're the closest to,

(01:10:52):
they're your greatest ally, and they turn on you. The
people that hurt you the most are the people that
you love the most. And when life doesn't go the
way that you expected it to go, that you suddenly
that this pain is unbearable and that you think what's
going to save you is to think vengeful thoughts or
to never forgive, like that's going to give you some
kind of power, magical power. It doesn't just weighs you

(01:11:16):
down and eats away at you and is poisonous. So
having to forgive my brother, knowing that I had to
forgive my brother, it was you know, it's like your
ego dances around it like yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get
to it. I'll get to calling him up or talking
to him or being his friend or helping him. But

(01:11:38):
eventually I did. And I know I'm being mysterious. If
someone you love deeply betrays you and does something that
shows that they have no consciousness in that moment that
they made that choice to do that, it's really it's
a bitter pill for me to swallow. I can't speak

(01:11:58):
for everyone, but I imagine that lots of people feel
this way. For my brother, I didn't speak to him
for you know, for years, years and years, and it
was him being ill and reaching out to me and
saying I need your help, and me having that moment

(01:12:20):
like am I going to help my enemy? You know?

Speaker 3 (01:12:25):
That's how it fell.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Yeah, And I just did, and I ended up and
I felt so relieved, and it was such a load
off my back, such a weight that was removed, baggage
that I could put down to finally be able to
be in a room with him and holding his hand
even if he was dying, and saying I love you

(01:12:48):
and I forgive you. That was really important. And that
was another thing that I realized when I woke up
in the hospital, forgiveness. That word came to my mind,
like I have to forgive people because I was there,
I was almost there on the other side, and I
had a conscious moment and my mother appeared to me

(01:13:10):
and she said, do you want to come with me?
And I said no. My assistant was in the room
with me, but I was still unconscious, but she heard
me say no. And then when I did eventually wake up,
I realized that the no was about me needing to

(01:13:31):
forgive and make good with people that I still held
grudges against. So and interestingly well, I wrote a song
about him. I'm working on new music and I wrote
a song called Fragile, which is about my brother. And
then I wrote another song, and this is again just channeling.

(01:13:52):
It's called forgive Yourself, but the repeating phrase the chorus
of the song is if you can't forgive me, forgive
your which is something we all have to do. We
have to forgive others, but we also have to figure
forgive ourselves and stop beating up on ourselves about things
choices we've made in the past that haven't worked out

(01:14:15):
for ourselves or other people. Taking responsibility again, we come
back to that concept also, or that idea of being
accountable and being responsible. Taking responsibility as a very big
lesson that I learned studying Cabala is that I am responsible.
I am responsible and every and I believe in personal accountability,

(01:14:37):
personal karma, and I believe in global karma. Like a
lot of the things that are happening in the world
is as a result of our selfishness as people, as humans,
as a society, we are responsible. You can't just sit
in your room or your house or the safety of
your home and go people are you know, they deserve

(01:14:59):
it whatever to be aware and conscious that you're contributed
in some way, shape or form. And at the same time,
if we have collectively unconsciously evolved to a higher state

(01:15:19):
of consciousness, we can change the world. But that also
sounds like a cliche, but make the world a better place.
Tip the balance, so to speak. But that's why I'm here,
and that's why I'm talking to you, and that's why
I made these This is why I documented my studies
with my teacher, because I really believe that this wisdom

(01:15:40):
can help other people in a very practical way, not
in an esthetic way. And that's why I'm here.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
Thank you for sharing that and that journey you went
on of forgiveness, because yeah, for you to be that
honest and vulnerable and explain that that was someone that
you felt was an enemy at that point, but the
relief you felt from helping someone, I mean, that's like,
you know, I'm thinking about the people that are listening
and watching right now and the experience that they're having

(01:16:10):
where they're really struggling to forgive themselves or forgive someone else,
and looking at it from the point of view of
what would that look like if you never got that opportunity.
I know so many people who regret the last thing
they said to their parents, or the last thing they
said to a loved one, or whoever it may be,

(01:16:34):
and it seems that vengeance and spite doesn't seem to
heal the soul.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Well, harsh words and harsh behavior is energy, and you
can never take it back, but you can change your destiny,
your karmic destiny, and one of those ways is to
forgive others and forgive yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:17:00):
Oh No, You've been so gracious with your time, your energy,
and vulnerability today. I feel like I've learned so much
about you. I've very grateful to get and you said
you repeated yourself, but I'd honestly say that I enjoyed
that because it shows to me the good training is
good repetition, And so if you have the same, if

(01:17:20):
you have a similar mindset towards something, it's not in
the material world.

Speaker 1 (01:17:26):
You only get good at something if you do it
a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:17:27):
Yeah, in the material world we know that, but we
often look at repeating as I have heard that before.
I know that. But actually the thing we think we
know the most is the thing we need to hear
more often. And when I think about the detailed the vaders,
you're the soul, not the body, is the most repeated lesson.

(01:17:48):
It's the first lesson, but the most repeating. You're the soul,
your consciousness, not the body. Yes, is repeated more than
any other teaching, even though it's the most obvious, and
it's the first teaching.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Very obvious. But so look how attached we are psicicy.

Speaker 3 (01:18:00):
Exactly, so you need to repeat it. But I was
thinking that this might be a perfect time because you've
been referencing in this conversation. You've referenced your teachers so
many times, and we're fortunate enough today to actually have
the opportunity to invite him onto the show. And if
you're open to it, I think this may be there
would love shoure do it? Yeah, do it perfect a Don.

(01:18:22):
I'm so grateful that we actually get to speak to you.
Madonna's been talking about you the whole interview, and I
want our audience to know. Of course, you were sitting
in on our conversation as well, and so you have
context of everything we talked about, and of course you
have twenty nine years of context of everything Madonna shared
with us over the last couple of hours. But thank
you so much for doing this, and thank you for

(01:18:42):
being here.

Speaker 4 (01:18:43):
Thank you for having the honor of being here and
being part of really sharing these teachings.

Speaker 3 (01:18:51):
Yeah. Well, I was sharing with you earlier that my
vision when I started my platform was to make wisdom
go viral, especially ancient wisdom, and so this is truly
my heart's work, and so thank you for the opportunity back.
I want to dive in because we've heard about my
daughter's journey and her journey to Kabbalah, but I would
love to hear how you came to it, because I'm

(01:19:13):
assuming everyone has their own spiritual journey of awakening or connecting,
and I'm sure many of our listeners today are either
on their spiritual journey want to start one, but I'd
love to hear how did you come to this practice yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:19:27):
I started in a young age. I grew up in
Israel in a non religious family, and from a young
age I was asking questions about life. I think it
came from the depth of my soul. It's beyond because
someone taught me or anything. And when I was seventeen,
my brother introduced me to Kabbala. I went to the

(01:19:51):
Kabbala Center and I met my teacher for many years,
the rough Berg, And after hearing one hour of a
lesson of how the universe began and why are we here,
it resonated in such a deep level. Literally I couldn't
sleep for three nights and I felt I'm home. I

(01:20:17):
felt I'm reconnecting to really my purpose, what life is about.
And it took few years, and by the age of
twenty one, I knew that's my mission in life. So basically,
in the last forty years, that's what I'm doing all

(01:20:39):
day long, student and a teacher. In the last forty years.
That's beautiful. Like I was saying earlier, I felt like
I came to my work when I was eighteen, and
so I'm a couple of decades behind you in my journey,
but that idea of discovering something earlier and it resonating
so strongly with your heart and comming in your life

(01:21:00):
to it. What was it like when you first met Madonna?
What was that first interaction like?

Speaker 3 (01:21:06):
From your from your vantages, from your perspective, tell us about.

Speaker 4 (01:21:10):
I don't think she knows. But when Madonna's friend, which
studied with me, called me and told me, I'm bringing
Madonna to a class tonight forty people, so told her,
you know, I never saw a picture of Madonna. I
heard her name, so yeah, so don't worry, She'll sit

(01:21:35):
in the back with me. So that's actually the first time.

Speaker 3 (01:21:38):
So you had no idea. You looked like no idea.

Speaker 4 (01:21:41):
I did have a clue those days.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
I was pretty NiFe you you were planned in.

Speaker 4 (01:21:49):
Yeah, I was totally innision and I didn't I heard
the name Madonna, but didn't actually recognized.

Speaker 3 (01:21:59):
And then did you connect that evening? Was that well?

Speaker 4 (01:22:01):
That evening actually was said, Yeah, we sat in the
conference room because we said it invents that will meet
and Madonna was very suspicious of me.

Speaker 3 (01:22:15):
I can relate to that.

Speaker 4 (01:22:16):
What's the agenda here? What's happening. But listen, she had
many students. But one of the amazing qualities of Madonna
is perseverance, tenacities in the ups and downs. And trust me,

(01:22:38):
I've experienced and seen a lot of ups and downs.
But I always say, when you constantly nurturing your soul,
your soul will guide you. Our soul is the part
within us which knows all the all the answers that

(01:23:02):
connected to the higher force twenty four to seven. It
is our body, our logic, our ego, the layers in
our hearts that's blocking us to see and to feel
the truth. When you just agree with some spiritual concept
and once in a while learning so wow, it's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:23:23):
I love it.

Speaker 4 (01:23:25):
It's not enough. You need to nurture the soul that
that light of the soul and that wisdom of the
soul and that intuition that comes from the soul will
channel back its energy to your life. Because the source
of all protection and the source of all true joy

(01:23:45):
come from the soul. So she has that an amazing
and amazing attribute of tenacity and persecuting, not giving up
no matter what.

Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
One of the reasons I liked going there is because
it's like it was the only place where people didn't
bother me about who I was. I literally sat in
the back of a room with folding chairs. As I said,
there was mostly men, and no one said a word
to me, No one bothered me, no one said, oh
my god, aren't you ma Donna? Can I have your
autograph for like whatever? Like I just felt like I

(01:24:21):
could be anonymous.

Speaker 3 (01:24:22):
There was that the first time you'd experienced that a
new career that well.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
For a long time. Yeah, so with a large group
of people and strangers. So I liked the anonymity of
just being a student and going there and learning and
it had nothing to do with my career or work
or yeah, so that it was inviting. So I wanted
to go back. And then I would always bring my
notebook and take notes. And I have a zillion journals

(01:24:49):
from all of my classes and studies. And I loved
to be a student and learn, and I was learning
so much, And I also was so what I loved
so much about Kabal and studying Cabal, it was how
in tune it was with science and quantum physics. And
you know, it wasn't just just because you know what

(01:25:12):
I mean, Like everything made sense to me, and I
could see how you know, even the idea of you know,
how the world was created, or the beginning of life,
the idea of you know, Genesis, for instance, or the
idea of Adam and Eve. I learned that nothing in
life can be taken literally. You have to study the

(01:25:35):
deeper meanings of everything. And that is true for a
spiritual practice as well as science, as well as everything
we do in life. You can't judge a book by
its cover. You can't take things literally. And I was like, oh, Like,
when I was growing up as a Catholic, I would
always say to my father, well, why do we have

(01:25:56):
to you know, why do we have to address this
to church? Why does the you know, like you know,
wear a hat, cavery your hat what like? There was
no explanation for anything, and that really bugged me. So
if you can't find a reason, if you can't explain
something to me, I'm not interested. So he did explain
things to me, and they all everything made sense. Nothing

(01:26:18):
was silly. What we do study when we study Kabala
is the we study the Zohar, and in within the
Zohar is everything about life, about medicine, about science, about nature,
about relationships, and that was really comforting to me to see.

(01:26:42):
That's what helped me see life is not a series
of random events.

Speaker 3 (01:26:47):
And you mentioned I mean as I'm listening to Madonna
speak about this as well. You mentioned obviously you know
this tradition is four thousand years old. How first book
the difference?

Speaker 4 (01:27:00):
But it was before, it was before.

Speaker 3 (01:27:02):
Right, right ya? So it spread put into writing. Yeah,
it was put into the technology books four thousand years ago.
How did it come to be? Like, tell us a
bit about the history of it so that we get
some context of the tradition.

Speaker 4 (01:27:14):
Actually, the first book that was ever written in Kabbalah
was three pages long. It's called the Book of Formation
that was written by Love the Patriot, and it's reading
in such a coded way and will not get any
understand the secret of life and the wise ofe pages
three pages. Yes, it's a lot of commentary, but yes,

(01:27:37):
three pages. And then the main book of Kabbalah, after
many kabalists teaching from one to another, was the Book
of the Zoror or the Book of Splendor, that was
revealed two thousand years ago. And the zor is actually

(01:27:58):
decdified Torah codified the Bible and helping us to understand
the Bible is not a book of stories or laws
or religiosity or dogma. It's the secrets of life are
hidden there, and the so haard the main book of

(01:28:20):
which we have it today translated to English and to
other languages. It's actually helping us to understand that everything
in this world has a purpose and a reason. And
if asking what really kabbale is about, Kabbala is about
understanding the wise of life of the universe and why

(01:28:45):
I'm here and what is my purpose? And why are
we struggling? And what is the journey of our soul
and where we came from? And if the Creator is
such an infinite force of good and love out come,
we all struggling either with pain, with doubts, with negativity,

(01:29:07):
with selfishness. So that is the main book of Cabala,
and of course was many Kabbalists throughout his story since then,
that was we're able to bring Kabbalah down to us.
And in nineteen seventy that's when the Cabbala Center started,

(01:29:30):
which is opening the gates and the doors of Kabbala
to all mankind.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
You're talking about the whys of life and that's the
questions and the Sea King. Do you remember one of
the first questions that Madonna enquired about our one of
the first things that she was grappling with. What do
you remember?

Speaker 4 (01:30:04):
I don't even remember, So I just I don't remember
in what specific context.

Speaker 1 (01:30:13):
Also, I didn't study with him like this, Like I
was just a student in the back of a class.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18):
It took a while got it.

Speaker 1 (01:30:20):
For us to like have one on one conversations.

Speaker 4 (01:30:24):
It took a year or two until we started, right
to meet regularly once a week, right as well? Yeah,
well so, but I think one of the one of
the things that I remember speaking to Madonna, and this
is a struggles that everybody have. So we get there's

(01:30:46):
a higher power, call it God, call it the light,
call it inself, endless energy of love, of giving, that
is beyond time and space, and it's within us. Okay,
So why does evil forget about outside even inside? Why

(01:31:07):
do we have constantly destructive forces within each one of us?
There's a constant chatter you wake up and gravity pulls
you down. Why a lot of people study today how
to overcome that negative force, But why there is a

(01:31:29):
negative force within us? So one of the one of
the basic understanding we're talking about it, it's as understanding
that the greatest gift, the greatest gift the Creator gave us,
is the opportunity to overcome the opponent within, because when

(01:31:53):
you overcome, you become co creator. The reason why we
do experience enough peace, enough light, enough fulfillment, It's very simple,
Like trucks, like you want to experience the light, be
like the light, be a being of sharing. But part

(01:32:13):
of what the light is about, it's a creator. So
the gift to overcome negativity within is the gift of
being the creator. Imagine you were given everything. You're bond
with talents, you're bonn with love, You're bone with just
helping people all day long. That's your natural tendency. No

(01:32:35):
negative force try to pull you down, no selfishness. Do
you think you really will be able to actually experience
and appreciate the force of the Creator, the force of love,
the force of light, the force of true fulfillment. The
answer is no. So while sometime we all upset, why

(01:32:56):
I have this particular negative voice in my mind, and
why do I have to struggle with abandonmenttissue? And why
do I have to struggle with moments of sadness, at
the moment you realize one second, this is the greatest
gift to create. To give you doesn't mean you're right

(01:33:17):
away or how to overcome it. Maybe we'll share some
tools how to do it. But the fact that you
accept the greatest gift in this world is the gift
of overcoming. And it doesn't mean it has to be
with suffering. Actually it doesn't mean. But the fact that
you accept that opponent within you, it's actually was created

(01:33:43):
by the light, by the universe, by the force of
good to help us to grow. Imagine you bring spoke
about soccer a little bit before. Imagine imagine you bring
your kid to play soccer and you bring them in
front of a goal and with the ball and say,

(01:34:04):
now score. Will it be fun?

Speaker 2 (01:34:06):
Now?

Speaker 4 (01:34:07):
In its an opponent in either goalie, he needs to
overcome simpthing. Without overcoming anything, will never have a sense
of true fulfillment. And we're not talking about overcoming the
external challenges which is part of life, but recognizing the
unique challenges each one of us needs to overcome. We

(01:34:28):
call it karma, we call it cabalistically tikoun. Each one
of us have own unique areas of transformation, and everything
that life presenting to us is to present these opportunities
of overcoming and as a result, allow my soul to shine,
my gifts to shine, my true purpose to shine.

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
That's beautiful. I love hearing that. It's it's so interesting
to hear how that which we believe to be the
obstacle is actually the path. And it reminds me of
and I know, Madonna, you studied the Geeta as well.

(01:35:14):
Origins dilemma in the first chapter. So origins a warrior.
He's an archer, to be specific. And he's in the
middle of a battlefield and on one side is his brothers,
and on the other side is his cousins, so it's
all family, the opposing side and his side. And he's

(01:35:35):
on his chariot in the middle of the battlefield, and
he's talking to God and God is serving him as
his charioteer. And what he's expressing to God is his doubt,
his anxiety, and his insecurity. And that's how it begins.
It begins from a place of doubt, stress, fear, pressure,
which is what engages him to ask the question. And

(01:35:58):
it's so interesting that we often think that doubt and
anxiety and the problem, but often they are the seed
of where the question comes from and why we even
look up or look around and question what's happening in
our lives. And it's almost like doubt is the direction
and anxiety is beautiful, right, Like there's that's it's It's

(01:36:21):
similar as I'm.

Speaker 1 (01:36:22):
Something else to wake you up, whether you need some
kind of pressure, whether you're standing in front of a
goal or you're, you know, trying to win a war.

Speaker 3 (01:36:32):
Well, your pressure was becoming a mom.

Speaker 1 (01:36:34):
Yes, it's yes, it was, you know, and coming to
terms with you know is also you know, is my
life is my life as as in my careers, you know,
as an entertainer is going to change? Is it kind
of is going to be over? Like I said, I
associate motherhood with death, so it's like, what's going to

(01:36:57):
happen to me? Like I needed to be rooted somewhere
and I needed to have certainty. But you can't have
certainty unless you start with doubt.

Speaker 4 (01:37:08):
Exactly like she mentioned before. We Donna mentioned before that
the greatest light hiding beyond the greatest perception of darkness.
So if darkness manifests it as fear or the unknown
doubt or the uncertainty or the doubt or the weakness.

(01:37:29):
So one of the practices is actually ability to pause
and allow yourself to feel it for a second, because
there's a great light hidden there.

Speaker 3 (01:37:38):
Yeah, what did you help? What do you remember helping
or what advice would you have given to Madonna at
that time to help her connect the dots. I think
the phrase that she's repeated a few times in this
conversation of seeing motherhood as death is such a strong statement,
but it makes so much sense from your experience when

(01:37:58):
you connect the dots. How would you encourage How did
you encourage her to reflect on that?

Speaker 4 (01:38:04):
So we didn't necessarily speak about that concept, but about
other challenges and fears and perceived.

Speaker 1 (01:38:14):
Pain, abandonment. We talked about that a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:38:17):
Abandonment absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
I think, well, so you don't want to love or
be in love or be attached, feel attachment because then
you could get hurt. So that was a big issue
for me, Like I'm good on my own, because a
warrior surviving, like, don't with me, I don't need help,
I don't need any help, Like I'm good, but then

(01:38:42):
you need help and then it's hard, like to say
it and say I I I'm doubting myself. I'm I'm
I don't feel it like a warrior.

Speaker 3 (01:38:54):
Yeah, that's yeah, it's it's it's argentous dilemma. He's the
greatest archer of his time, yet his bow is slipping
from his hands because he's like, I can't shoot an
arrow and he's the best. And that feeling of I
think we all have that, Like you so beautifully talked
about Aytown, this idea that we've been given so many gifts,

(01:39:17):
with so many talents, and I think a lot of
our audience today in the world people have forgotten the
gifts that they have, and then we often get into
this feeling of low self esteem. You know, we don't
feel worthy, we don't feel we have a purpose. And
I feel like that's what the world is today. A
lot of people who are listening and watching today probably

(01:39:38):
feel like they don't have something to offer, or maybe
they know kind of what they have to offer, but
they don't feel confident enough. What would your teachings, in
some of your guidance say to those kind of people
who are sitting there thinking, I kind of you know,
I don't have that confidence in myself I don't I
don't really know what I'm going to do, and they're

(01:39:58):
feeling stuck.

Speaker 4 (01:40:00):
Thing like Madonna mentioned, she felt weak, she didn't felt
her personality of being a warrior. So there's a big
difference between personality and soul strength.

Speaker 3 (01:40:18):
Talk to us about the difference. Yeah, what's the difference
between personality.

Speaker 4 (01:40:22):
So Madonna always been a warrior, that's her personality that
she grew, she did, that's part of her gifts. But
it's not necessarily mean that she'll channel a warrior's attributes
in a soulful way. But we identify with that. I'm

(01:40:43):
a warrior. When i'm a warrior, I'm strong when i'm strong,
I'm happy when i'm strong, I'm meaningful when i'm strong.
I met her, and when suddenly you go through a
situation that threatened that ability to be a warrior, to
be strong, to be independent, suddenly you feel fear and emptiness.

(01:41:04):
And what I would recommend, what I would share with Madonna,
would recommend anybody, in order to find your strength, start
with the challenges of today. It's not about finding my
purpose in the future. And let's break it down to

(01:41:27):
simple such a.

Speaker 3 (01:41:28):
Great points, such a great point it's brilliant.

Speaker 4 (01:41:30):
Simple four steps. How do I handle a challenge today?

Speaker 3 (01:41:38):
So step number one, I just want to before you
driving the steps die is beautiful. I absolutely love that mindset.
I think it's such a great hope everyone who's listening
to watching right now. It's such great advice because we're
so fixated on finding, discovering, looking for the answer at
some point in the future, and it just keeps feeling
postponed and further away. And I love what you're saying

(01:42:01):
is that the challenge in front of you right now
is the exactly It's beautiful.

Speaker 4 (01:42:05):
How do you connect to the light, with the energy,
with your soul, with the blessing that available in this
very moment?

Speaker 3 (01:42:12):
Good?

Speaker 4 (01:42:12):
Sorry, Yeah, And that will lead to other blessings that
will open doors that will attract clarity. We face the
challenge all of us. It can be challenge at work,
it can be challenge at all. It can be just
I start to compare myself to someone else and it

(01:42:34):
triggers lack all of us. Doesn't matter how spiritual we are,
and doesn't matter how successful are guilty, We'll have at
least a hundred times a day lack will be triggered
fear today even today.

Speaker 3 (01:42:51):
Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:42:55):
So the comparison game at least hundred times a day.
I mean, that's the social media for really to make
you feel bad about yourself unless you recognize that that
is an illusion, that's not reality or doll an opportunity, right,
an opportunity for me to not engage.

Speaker 4 (01:43:14):
Exactly and to actually find light in the moment.

Speaker 1 (01:43:17):
We just actually to conquer your fear in that moment,
or to conquer your repetitive behavior of oh my god,
I wish I had that. Oh my god, I wish
I was that person. Oh my god, I wish that
my life was like that person's life, Like if only
I had dot dot dot. You know, it's like to
stop yourself in that moment and conquer that moment, which
is I'm good enough, I am everything that I need.

(01:43:41):
I am I I I embody it. I just have
to reveal it. But that's a that's a really hard one,
I think, especially for women, you know, because we are
a conditioned to like want to aspire to be this
beautiful or this great of a mother or you know,

(01:44:01):
this grade of a homemaker or this grade of a
you know, it's a test every day to not judge
yourself and to not like feel like you're lacking in
some way, like you say, and when I say my prayers,
part of my prayer is that I rise above my
limitations and that I rise above my nature, and that

(01:44:24):
I don't get sucked into the vortex of lack which
can come in so many different forms and tune into you.
Just you really have to be consciously like going like
your head is a radio dial like going like like like, no,
I'm not that's not me, you know what I mean.
It's constant. It's a constant conversation you're having with yourself.

Speaker 4 (01:44:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:44:49):
So true. So that's a really reliable problem.

Speaker 1 (01:44:51):
And it requires work, and it requires paying attention and
being aware. And we also get caught up in wh
We live in a world is distraction, right, so easy
to get distracted. It doesn't mean you're not supposed to
have fun, Like right now, I really want to have fun,
but not that you're not fun.

Speaker 3 (01:45:11):
Oh we're not having fun. I think we're having fun.

Speaker 1 (01:45:13):
But yeah, it's just we live in a world of distraction,
so it's so easy to get caught pulled off the
track of you know what am I doing? What am
I doing right now? What am I doing to myself?
Like I'm I'm I'm already there. I got caught, you
know what I mean by the seed of doubt and
self judgment and comparing and I'm not good enough. Therefore

(01:45:39):
I'm going to be in a bad mood. I'm going
to shout at my child or you know what I mean.
It's like takes so many different forms, and like the
greatest thing in the world is to be able to
stop yourself before that happens. But it does require constant vigilance.

Speaker 3 (01:45:58):
Yeah, absolutely amazing to hear you say that you still
feel that way. Yeah, that's helpful and validating for all.

Speaker 4 (01:46:05):
Of that's part of the path of transformation.

Speaker 3 (01:46:08):
Sorry, back to the tool.

Speaker 4 (01:46:10):
Yes, so really because without what is lack is the
illusion that there's no force of good, you're not protected,
you're not loved, you alone, you're said, you're disconnected, and

(01:46:34):
the practice to overcome that, not just in meditation throughout
the day, which is very powerful. Step number one, as
you face the challenge before you get as the reactive
process of lack and negative thoughts, tell yourself say these words, pause,

(01:47:00):
what an opportunity I don't know why. It's an opportunity,
but I know every moment of flack it's a gift
from the universe to help me to reveal greater light
and a blessing in my life. Step number two, don't
fix it yet. Embrace what is. Embrace the difficult feelings,

(01:47:27):
because in order to find light in darkness, you need
to be there with courage a little bit in darkness.
We want to fix right away. We want to get
rid of what bothers us. We want to get rid
of the fear. We want to get rid of the insecurities.
We can stand it. We don't like the discomfort, And

(01:47:49):
how do we want to get rid of it? By
being reactive, by blaming, by judging ourselves, by jumping after
opportunity for insectifications, by being self destructive. Pause, Embrace It's okay,
And part of the reason of study is developing trust.

(01:48:11):
It's okay. Embrace first what is, and then go to
the next level.

Speaker 3 (01:48:17):
And when you say embrace, do you mean to meet
it positively? In that? To me as it is to
allow it? Yeah, to allow it because it's in it.

Speaker 4 (01:48:28):
Allow it, not because I want to stay there. Because
that's part of the process of revealing the great light
of my soul.

Speaker 3 (01:48:37):
Yeah, it almost feels that. Often what happens is because
we've tried to go to the light so much. Sorry,
it often feels that because we've tried to go to
the light so much, we don't know how to sit
in the darkness. We want to go to the goods
so quickly, we don't know how to sit in the bad.

Speaker 4 (01:48:53):
That's when you develop strength. And there's a concept cableist discomfort. Yeah,
there's a concept cabalist call certainty beyond logic, explaining I'm
trusting even though I don't feel it, and it doesn't
make sense that actually I'm led towards anything positive, but

(01:49:16):
I'm trusting beyond logic that this experience is for my
best even if I'm guilty and feeling horrible about mistakes
that I've done.

Speaker 3 (01:49:30):
It's okay.

Speaker 4 (01:49:32):
You're going to get to the part of learning the lesson.
Don't fix it, don't erase it. Certainty beyond logic, so
the part of embrace it, allow and then you're ready
to the next step, which is telling yourself because our

(01:49:52):
belief system tells us it's a moment of darkness, there's
no light here, there's no good.

Speaker 3 (01:49:57):
Here, there's no there's no love here, there's no light here.

Speaker 4 (01:50:01):
So you need to tell yourself all the light that
I need is within me. Now, just tell yourself doesn't
make sense. Logic doesn't agree, the heart doesn't agree. But
that's the job of this world to allow the thoughts,
the stream of energy that come from the soul to
influence gradually the mind and the heart and the body.

(01:50:25):
And again and again again, tell yourself, all the light
I need is within me in mouth, I'm certain beyond
logic it's for my best. And then show me the
way the light the universe. What's the when you feel
less reactive? Because usually when we experience lack, we reactive.

(01:50:49):
We want to get rid of the luck, we want
to get rid of the fact. And that's what's caused,
I think, what's caused evil behavior between people not knowing
how to handle moments of luck. That's where it's art.
So forget about others. Let's start with ourselves. And sometimes
we'll fix the lack because someone will tell us, whow

(01:51:09):
you're an amazing person and love you so much, and
how we feel good? And I fixed it. I forgot
about my lack. I forgot about my insecurity. Actually, I
am amazing are you? By developing true muscles and skills
to find the light within or you want to be
attached to the external energy that will fix you will

(01:51:33):
never work. And of course when you in that place,
actions of giving, even if it doesn't make sense calling someone,
adding value to someone, being kind to someone also help
you to shift your energy towards the vibration of the soul,

(01:51:54):
towards the vibration of the light. But we all need
to go to this. Yeah, you know, some people would
call it mental illness, but we all have that mental struggle.
We all have that mental struggle in feelings and in

(01:52:17):
our minds. So it's a it's actually it's a it's
a daily perhaps transform, it's a daily practice and when
you have the courage and you study enough depth that
support the understanding that the light is never gone. Yeah,
it's my perception I see the light. I don't see

(01:52:38):
the light that is causing me to feel the light
is disappear. And I'm small and I'm not enough, and
I'm not capable and I'm not confident.

Speaker 3 (01:52:50):
Yeah, that really resonates very strongly because I feel like
when you're first reading this new script, you don't believe it.
And that's why, as you're saying, the regular study is
almost like reading a script consistently, a new script because
already reading the old script of I'm not good enough,
I'm not capable enough, I belong whatever it may be.

(01:53:13):
But the online that I really loved that resonated with me,
which I want to ask you about, Madonna, is the
trust beyond logic, because I think that's the phase that
most of us give up because we are living in
a logical, functional, material world where if a train's not coming,
you would leave this station. But here the trust beyond

(01:53:36):
logic is now, I'm still going to wait here, or
I'm going to act in a certain way, or I'm
going to change these behaviors. Madonna, when did you have
to practice trust beyond logic in your life? The most
where you I.

Speaker 1 (01:53:48):
Mean, every challenge I've ever had, once I became aware
that I had the power to do that, And like
making art, creation is there's nothing to do with being logical,
doesn't have anything to do with the logical part of
your brain. You can't measure it, you can't predict it,

(01:54:09):
you can't control it. You have to allow it. So
I would say that Challenger is like happening on a
daily basis, Like even now, like I told you, you know,
there's a pipe that bursts in the middle of my
house and it's like creating havoc and all I was

(01:54:32):
so excited to come to London, to be in my
house in London, and everything's gone wrong, and I'm like, okay,
So there has to be a reason for it. I
can't just sit here and like be angry or upset,
like there's a illogical wisdom to everything that's happening. If

(01:54:55):
that's not being attached to material things, then that could
be an option. If that's because all these things are broken,
I need to spend more time doing something else it's
more important, then that's you know what I mean. There's
always a reason for something so and you can't logically
figure it out. Like I wish that I could have

(01:55:17):
seen ten years I had that my son was going
to be my best friend. I was trying to make
logical sense of everything, you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (01:55:30):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:55:31):
I wish that I knew then what I know now.
So there's always Then there's big struggles in little struggles,
like you can't logically explain things like especially like I
always use art as a as an example, because I
can tell you that ninety nine percent of the time

(01:55:52):
when I'm writing lyrics or singing a melody, I'm not
thinking about it logic. If I think it's gone or
it doesn't come to me, I.

Speaker 3 (01:56:22):
Want to ask you a ton based on that. As
Madonna said, she waited ten years to see that experience
of you know, her son becoming her best friend. I
think a lot of people wonder how is the reason
revealed or received? How do we know? Because like you said,

(01:56:43):
it's trust beyond logic, and logic is like if I
do this, then this will happen. And this is like
my pipe's a burst. If I call the guy, he'll
come and fix it, right, Like, that's the kind of
way our brain works when we're trusting beyond logic. It
could take ten years to receive a reason, It could
take twenty years. It could take fifty years to really
have a revelation on something. How is it often revealed

(01:57:06):
or received when it's not based on logic? So that
makes sense, Yes, it makes sense.

Speaker 4 (01:57:11):
What you're asking. Number one is when things don't go
your way, and of course, sometimes we need to do
practical action to make things better and to fix things.
But sometimes it's out of our control. Things don't go
our way, like the situation with the experience of Madonna

(01:57:34):
shared so certainty be on logic is that the struggle
that I'm going through is for my best, but it
doesn't allow me to be self destructive because if I
want to speed up the process that I see the

(01:57:56):
light at the end of the tunnel, I need to
strengthen and we need friends, you need teachings, you need
the right support to actually trust the universe loves you
and it's for the good as difficult it is. But
then you need to ask a second question when you're ready,

(01:58:17):
when you're not as reactive, what's my lesson? Why is
it in my movie? And sometimes the answer is simple.
Every time we experience rejection, what is rejection? Things don't
go our way? It purifies us because our mind and

(01:58:39):
our heart it's so attached to happiness, is when this
will happen, which is not necessarily the big picture happiness
what really good for me? Yeah, So when you actually
realize that actually that's a purification process and you open

(01:59:01):
and you allow it to happen because all of us
are not aligned with the true desire of the universe.
If it would be aligned, we would be joyful every
second and we will be giving unconditionally every second, and
we'll think all day long, how can I add value

(01:59:22):
to others? And because we are not there, and that's
part of the gift of life gradual transformation. We need
moments of rejection. But when you question, you said, where
am I to attached? What's my lesson? What do I
need to let go? That will support to speed up
the process of seeing the light. Because every fruit in

(01:59:46):
order to become sweet and ripe is first hour. There's
a process. Actually, the bottomist would say that more sour
the fruit in the process sweeter at the end. It's
so easy to throw the sour fruit and to say

(02:00:07):
it's a bad fruit. But if you're able to allow
this process, and you need a lot of spiritual strength,
because culture, society, our body, our mind is prone to
react and to decide it's bad. That constant conversation in

(02:00:30):
our mind, it's good, it's bad, I'm good, I'm bad.
It's that reactive conversation we have within us that actually
prolong in the process. So actually faster. We're embracing certainty,
biologic fasting. We're asking questions because at the beginning you
cannot ask because you're in pain, so you just try

(02:00:53):
to at least trust and embrace and embrace and beg
something and asking. But when you're ready to ask, well,
what's my lessons? Because very often we are so touched.
We spoke about forgiveness to what's wrong with them, and

(02:01:13):
we forget that the true purpose of life is my
own transformation and elevation. While I'm interacting with other people,
So when the conversation is no longer about that good,
that bad? How did they do it? And you bring
it back to you, how can I elevate? How can
I become better? How can I transform? Between me and

(02:01:38):
my soul, between me and my perfected self? When you
that's when you inject the energy, then things the light
will be shown faster.

Speaker 3 (02:01:50):
Yeah, that's the question. That's the accelerator that we want.
We want the pain to go away quicker that question is,
and sitting with that question exactly is the thing that
actually speeds it up. What are you trying to work
on right now, Madonna? That you're working on in your
studies I know you get together regularly. People are going

(02:02:12):
to be able to watch your studies as well that
you do together. What's something that you're trying to work
on right now that seems very fresh as a challenge,
something to overcome.

Speaker 1 (02:02:23):
As you said, the lessons that I learn and study
are more applicable to things that are challenging me on
a regular basis, which would be you know, my children,
They're always challenging me in one way or another. And
that's a bit like such a big lesson for me
to let go of expectations and stop trying to control

(02:02:48):
the outcome and over worrying. And you know, I'm just like,
some days I wake up on this, I'm just relieved
that they're all okay, you know what I mean. And
I always say to people when you're when you have
that many kids, you're you're you're not really a parent,
You're a manager, you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (02:03:08):
Yeh.

Speaker 4 (02:03:08):
And by the way, she has amazing kids and spiritual kids,
and because of her tremendous effort to infuse not just
with the teachings, with their behavior consciousness. Sometimes you don't
see it right away, but we see kid of the
kids that actually they're coming around in the own unique way.

Speaker 1 (02:03:32):
So and also infuriating me what kind of things. I mean,
I have to stop thinking that, you know, my way
of doing things are my way of approaching life, or
my way of being an artist is going to be
somebody else's my kids way of doing it. Everybody has
their own journey and it's taken me a long time

(02:03:55):
to accept that.

Speaker 4 (02:03:57):
And to let go of control.

Speaker 3 (02:03:59):
M Why is that so hard as a parent, because
I feel like so many parents would be able to
relate to that right now where we subconsciously or consciously
are projecting living through our children, wanting them to, you know.

Speaker 1 (02:04:11):
Well, either to be successful or in not like, not
even in a not like. I want them to be
rich and famous. I just want them to be happy.
I want them to be authentic. I want them to
not compare the themselves to other people, not worry about
what people think of them, because they're my children. Like

(02:04:33):
we're you know, fearing judgment, letting that go, helping them
to see their own unique gifts. It's a constant battle
because also you don't want to come off as somebody
who's trying to control the situation all the time. Either
my weekly studies with Aton, or my daily prayers or

(02:04:54):
whatever are often about you know, I don't want my
children to do specific things. I want them to realize
what they were put on this earth to do. I
want them to elevate to their highest level of consciousness
and how can I help that? That's it. But it's

(02:05:17):
still hard not to be bothered by things things.

Speaker 3 (02:05:24):
Yeah, I think that's a very relatable challenge for parents. Yeah,
it's a real one. It's And I guess when you
ask that question, then what is the lesson in this
applying a TONS process? What what do you often come
up with?

Speaker 1 (02:05:42):
Trying to control all the outcomes in life is and
not getting the outcome you wanted is what makes you suffer.
So if that lesson keeps coming back to me, then
I guess I haven't learned it yet. And children are
a perfect teacher for that, because they're never going to
do what you want them to do way that you
want them to do it. You know, just get them

(02:06:04):
from here to there without hurting themselves or anybody else,
you know what I.

Speaker 3 (02:06:09):
Mean, because they too have to overcome exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:06:13):
Yeah, you know I did. I grew up with very
little and that's so I have a huge desire, and
then of course you give your children all the things
you wanted to have, and then you realize that's killing
their desire, and so you know, it's like it's just
you're just constantly going, oh shit, oh shit, okay, I'm

(02:06:33):
not okay, not just be counterintuitive. Just say nothing. That's
that's a big one for me. Say nothing. But I'm
getting good at it. I'm just really getting good at it.

Speaker 3 (02:06:43):
No. I appreciate you walkings through that though process because
I think you've summed it up. That's exactly what we
want to do. We want to take away someone's pain
or the pain we thought they were going to have
because of the pain we had, and then you provide
something only to create a new pain and for them
to never have the pain that you had, but have
a completely different version of it. We do it for
everyone we love. And I was going to ask you

(02:07:04):
you like, what do you do when you don't like
the answer? That question is so important, like what is
the lesson I need to learn? But a lot of
us subconsciously may not like the answer we gain. That's
where we have to keep learning. Again, what happens when
you don't like the truth that you're experiencing.

Speaker 4 (02:07:24):
So I think part of true spiritual transformation is craving truth.
Is I want to know, really what's my lesson? Because
what's the other option? More pain until I'm going to
learn the lesson. So the reason why we're not listening

(02:07:46):
to the voice that tell me let go of control?
Or for kids, one of the biggest mistakes parents do
is over giving to kids, which in Kubli scabilistic terminology
we call it broad of shame. When you give to
someone something without working, without earning, you're actually hurting them.

(02:08:09):
And the parent might know I'm overgiving and it's not
healthy for them, but I feel guilty to say no.

Speaker 1 (02:08:19):
And I'll be here if I say yes exactly.

Speaker 4 (02:08:22):
So here is the test guilty of saying no versus
long term pain for the kid and for yourself. So
actually pause and ask that question. That will help you
to get closer to the truth and be less in
denial and a fork short term long term saying yes

(02:08:45):
just to fix the pain, to give them what they want,
to let them play with the phone, or say no
and it's difficult and they feel bad and the blaming you,
but you're doing it from place of love, because yeah,

(02:09:05):
because what's driving us true desire to share in a
long term.

Speaker 3 (02:09:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:09:13):
If that's my true and that's the truth, Am I
really coming from true desire to share for a long
term share and not just temporary fix.

Speaker 3 (02:09:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:09:25):
And when I'm coming from that place only blessings, you're
planting a seed of light, a seed of blessing, a
seed of miracles. When you're coming from another place pretending
to be good or nice or kind only because you
cannot handle the temporary pain, you're planting a seed of chaos,

(02:09:48):
which cares also as intelligent to teach you lessons but
in a longer path.

Speaker 3 (02:09:53):
Yeah. I mean I can relate to that as a
kid because I'm not a parent. But it was almost
like during your team you just think everything your parents
say is wrong. And then in my twenties I was
like so grateful for the discipline and the rules and
the you know, I was only allowed to play video
games for like X amount of time or whatever it was,
and all of a sudden, everything my parents did, I

(02:10:14):
was like, oh, wow, there was actually a lot of
good in it. But during my teenage years that you know,
I obviously didn't agree with anything they said, and there's
such a reality to that feeling of the long term
point that you're making. The long term you realize, Oh, yeah,
I'm glad you actually didn't just let me eat rubbish,
or I'm really glad you didn't just let me waste
hours playing video games. I'm really glad that you didn't

(02:10:37):
do X, Y Z or whatever it may be. And
so it's hard though, because the parent or the person.
This could be romance, it could be in any relationship.
You've got to be unpopular in the moment. You have
to put us at your ego and you have to.

Speaker 4 (02:10:51):
Go through that disconference.

Speaker 3 (02:10:52):
Yeah, yeah, which applies at work, it applies everywhere anything.

Speaker 4 (02:10:56):
Yeah, especially in the culture today when everything can be
so instant app and ordering food and getting what you
want and watching any program and in your phone. So
that instant culture preventing a child or an individual to

(02:11:18):
go through a real process of going through this comfort
or earning the light as we're going saying caballistically, and
people don't understand they can be bright, how come I'm depressed?
Depression very often it's a consequence of instant gratification, not

(02:11:39):
willing to go through difficult process.

Speaker 3 (02:11:44):
So hard, so hard. We don't want to go through
the difficult process, and we don't want anyone we love
to go through a difficult process. Although that is that
is the any process that's going to benefit.

Speaker 1 (02:11:55):
Us, well, well we're going to anyway, so.

Speaker 3 (02:11:59):
Absolutely. I have one last question to ask both of you.
What is your soul's purpose? Why do you think you're here?
And what personally was the becoming or the overcoming that
you went through to really receive that soul's purpose that
you're living by. What was it that birth that idea

(02:12:20):
within you.

Speaker 1 (02:12:22):
My soul's purpose is to reveal light in the world
through whatever I do, whatever that's being a parent or
being an artist, being a friend, being a leader. Yeah,
we are here to receive for the sake of sharing.

(02:12:44):
So I have a huge desire. I have many desires.
This is not a relief system or philosophy that's about
no offense, being a monk and going up in the
mountains and meditating for hours. I want it all, but
I want it for the sake of sharing, not to
keep it for myself. Hey wants more followers on Instagram.

Speaker 4 (02:13:13):
The personal relationship between me and the light between me
and the Creator. I know that I don't anything less
than connecting while I'm in this physical world to the
soul that was given to me. And it means total transformation,

(02:13:35):
total desire to receive for the sake of sharing, certainty
beyond logic until it becomes second agor that's at a
personal level. But one of the ways to giv it
is to connect with our purpose of sharing. So I
know in my gut, in my soul, and it was
beyond knowing, it was beyond logic, that that's what I

(02:13:57):
came to do in this world, which is to spread
to be a teacher for the teachings of Cabbalah while
I'm studying. One of them is about being too perfectionist spiritually,
you know, taking spiritual lesson to an imbalanced place. Something

(02:14:18):
is wrong with me. So and I know as long
as we're in this world and if we're truly not
settling for lesson, that's a message for everybody. I want
to say, never settle for less wherever you are. This
is just the beginning comparing to your next level potential.
So those challenges were necessary to help me to evolve

(02:14:44):
to where I'm at today. And of course this is
just the beginning.

Speaker 3 (02:14:49):
What's that? Thank you so much for your time and energy. Again,
learn so much from both of you today, and I
really can't wait for people to watch the studies. I
hope that it gives spiritual seekers a opportunity to ask
better questions, deeper questions, and begins their quest for overcoming

(02:15:11):
and becoming whatever their soul's purpose truly is. And I'm
so grateful that you're both living yours truly and I'm
really again thankful for the opportunity to have learned so
much from both of you today. Thank you so much,
oh honor, thank you too much.

Speaker 1 (02:15:26):
Thank you.

Speaker 3 (02:15:27):
If this is the year that you're trying to get creative,
you're trying to build more, I need you to listen
to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break
into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods
that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving
what you do. If you're trying to find your passion
and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Speaker 2 (02:15:50):
Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value,
Like as an artist, if you like it, that's all
of the value. That's the success comes when you say
I like this and not for other people to see it,

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Host

Jay Shetty

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

The Joe Rogan Experience

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}MADONNA: For the First Time Ever