Novak Djokovic: “I Never Felt I Was Enough” The Secret to Turning Your Self-Doubt Into HUGE Success (Use THIS Method Today!)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Not having success is not an option. I have to succeed.
It's basically a matter of existence, a survival of my family.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
The world's number one mile tennis player is one fourteen
Gland slams and a glittering career.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
No, Djokovic, You've.

Speaker 2 (00:15):
Been through so many injuries, losses.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
I always heard himself from hood.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Has Novak Djokovic done? What goes through your mind when
you love I just want to be left alone? What
has it taken to become Novak Djokovic?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
It's a consistent practice. It's prayer, work, mindfulness, meditation, conscious breathing.
It requires more responsibility from you on a daily basis
to prepare yourself for the biggest battle.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
When did you first become aware of that feeling of
not being enough?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I kind of get emotional about it because it's still
deep inside of me.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Do you feel like in your career you've achieved everything
you set out to as a tennis player?

Speaker 1 (00:54):
When you reach your thirty you start counting your days
to your retirement. I'm thirty eight year How far can
I go? How long can I push my own limits?
The Number one Health and Wellness Podcast Jay Setty Jay
Sheney on set.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Everyone, Welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health
and wellness podcast in the world. Thanks to each and
every one of you who come back every week to listen, learn,
and grow. Now, this is an incredible statistic that I'm
sharing for the first time. Thanks to you, we are
now creating five hundred million views every month, not every year,

(01:37):
every month, and I'm so grateful that you're part of
this community. Today I get to welcome back a guest
who has been a big part of making that possible
for me.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
I'm grateful to him.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
I'm indebted to him because he believed in the mission
of On Purpose even before many people did, or any
people did, before this podcast was even out, he allowed
me the gracious kindness to go and interview him and
release as the second episode of all time. Welcoming back

(02:08):
on Purpose. I'm so excited to have my friend, the
incredible human Novak djokowitch. No, thank you, j you are
I mean, you know what. I'm so grateful to have
you back. And my heart is so full because you
were one of those rare people that had seen one
of my first ever videos. We'd reached out, we'd connected,

(02:30):
we were talking a lot at the time, you were
going through a really fascinating place in your career, you
were recovering from an injury. It was a different mindset.
You were just on the cusp of becoming the greatest
of all time, and you took a chance on me
in so many ways, and I'm eternally indebted and grateful

(02:50):
to you for that. So thank you for coming on
then and coming back now.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
J Thank you. It's a great pleasure to see you
again and to be able to talk to you. Thank
you for kind word in introduction as well. Reflecting on
our first conversation in twenty nineteen, I don't think I
took a chance, because we talked about it just before
we started officially recording. You know, when you were connected
with yourself and with your emotions, and when you feel

(03:17):
someone deeply and look in someone's eyes and you understand
instantly with your instinct, with your intuition that this person
thinks good or thinks bad, or has the right intention,
has the heart of the right place. So I could
see that from the first moment with you, and that's
where I felt the connection. And even though we haven't
seen each other for a few years, you know, I'm

(03:38):
just so glad that we were able to connect now.
And you led me through the list of all the
guests that you had in the last almost three hundred
episodes in the last five years, and I couldn't be
happier for you, and for your wife and for your
entire team.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Amazing, Thank you, man, And it's you gave me my
first Wimbledon experience. I got to see you play on
Center cold. I was pretty it was amazing. I mean,
are you kidding me? It was like and you crushed
you one, obviously, but it was just such a brilliant
experience to see you play after getting to understand your psychology.
And I think that's what I've respected about you over time,

(04:13):
that you've really worked hard on your internal game as
much as your external game. And I think you're one
of those few rare athletes that have raised the consciousness
by working on your own consciousness. So today I want
to dive deep into that, and I want to dive
right in. I wanted to start by asking you, like,
what has it taken to become Novak Djokovic, Like, what

(04:36):
is it actually taken to become you internally?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
You know, you mentioned that I took a lot of
the time and attention to dedicate myself to the internal work.
And you know, I've been blessed and really lucky in
a certain way to be surrounded with certain people at
the very early stages of my career and my life
that have directed me into this direction of self care,

(05:07):
of holistic approach, of multidisciplinary approach to the preparation to
the prevention to the recovery both physical, mental, emotional, and
at that time, because I was so young, I didn't
understand that and it didn't need to be explained to
me in depth. At that point, I trusted you know,

(05:27):
my tennis mothers I like to call her. She passed
away thirteen years ago, but she was the one that
really introduced this holistic concept to me. You know, we
were I was going, you know, obviously to school, and
then I was only nine years old and nine ten
and I was training with her maybe two or three
times a week individually tennis, and then I would have

(05:48):
group sessions, and my parents were, you know, we're trusting
her enough to allow her to participate directly into my
upbringing basically, so she also educated me off the tennis
court as well. So she took me very often at
least two times per week to her house where we
would look at the tapes of all the greats, both

(06:11):
male and female tennis players. That's where my impersonation started.
You know, people you know still to this day ask me,
you know, when are you going to do the imitations
impersonations and you know, I haven't done it. I've done
it early in my career and it was fun. It
was viral and people liked it. And then I received
a little bit of an evil looks in the locker
room and I kind of felt like, you know, maybe
I'm stepping over the line. So that's why I stopped.

(06:32):
But that's where it started. And I was like, I
was really trying to adapt all of the great things
that I could see, and I have a kind of
a photogenic memory and I'm a very visual person, and
that was something that was kind of expected. That is
kind of common as well, what you do with kids,
you know, or with young athletes, right, you watch videotapes,
you try to analyze, you try to talk. But then

(06:55):
she had me listen to classical music, and she said,
it's very import did you do that almost on a
daily basis? Listen to classical music? While you are writing
your journal, while you are you know, preparing for bed,
or any time of the day, but particularly those times.
And you know, I liked it. I didn't understand the

(07:17):
purpose of it, but you know I liked it. And
so we would look at the tapes and would listen
to this music, and then we would read poetry, and
then we would do a visualization practice. At that time,
she was not presented to me as such, but she
would just say in a very simple way that would
be understood by a boy, a ten year old boy,

(07:37):
just close your eyes and think about how you want
to play tennis, and think about when you're your happiest.
And so it started at the very early age. And
I'm so eternally grateful to her for instilling this in
me and teaching me, you know, how to see life
basically and understand that tennis is not as an individual sport.

(07:59):
Of course, is also different because you don't have anyone
to replace you if something goes bad, you know, during
the match, you have to figure out the way. So
I think it requires more responsibility from you on a
daily basis to prepare yourself for the biggest battle internally
and also externally. Of course, with your opponent and with
everything that is happening around. But you know, so it

(08:20):
taught me to really understand that tennis is not only
about hitting a tennis ball over the net and counting
score and dreaming about these achievements and winning Wimbledon as
our holy grail of tennis. But it's more than that,
and I can use tennis as a platform to evolve

(08:41):
into a better human being. At that point, I didn't
understand that. But then as I was growing older and
becoming more mature, I start to understand the importance of
doing all of these practices, and I started to expand
on each of these topics that I was going through
with her, And then, you know, I started going into yoga,

(09:02):
I started going into the movement into Christianity or to
christian I'm very proud of my religion, but at the
same time, I am very open to, you know, embrace
anything that can teach me, you know, from other religions
and from the spirituality as a whole. So I'm very
curious by nature. So I was really always looking for

(09:23):
new ways to improve myself and improve my life on
this planet, you know. And I was very lucky to
be basically have that space also from my parents. It's
a kind of a self discovery through the self care
through tennis really consumed most of my life. I mean
it still does not to that extent, of course. I
mean I have two kids, I have family and other

(09:43):
businesses and other things that interest me. So I'm you know,
I'm balancing right now between tennis and the other stuff,
and I'm kind of making that transition slowly. You know,
I still play professional tennis, and I still experience my
worst self on the court and my best self. And
so going back to your comment at the beginning where
you said, you know, you're one of the the athletes

(10:06):
that really have immersed himself into the spirituality, into understanding
the holistic approach and so forth, and the mental health,
I would say yes, but I'm still surprising and shocking
myself on how much I actually need to still work
on that. And I still quote unquote don't know enough

(10:27):
about that world. And it was really hard for me
to accept that. You know, I thought, you know, since
ten I basically started working on that and growing the foundation.
But it has evolved and has transformed so much for
me in terms of how I see myself how I
see the world, and I thought, you know, maybe when

(10:49):
I was at the peak of my career and you know,
I felt like I'm unbeatable and I feel like I
could do anything, you know, I kind of walking on
the water. We all experien is that in our own
lives in a certain way, and it's a great feeling,
but then the ego takes your places where it's hard
to come back from and maybe you shouldn't come back

(11:09):
from that. Maybe you're trying to find a violence, find
the optimal measure that really works for you. But it
took me time to really accept the fact that what
I have learned, what I have mastered, and what I'm
doing on a daily basis for the last twenty years
or more is not necessarily a guarantee that I'll always

(11:31):
find a way and that will always work for me
in this particular time of my life and circumstances that
I'm facing. So that's a huge revelation for me because
and I'm still trying to get a grasp on it
and understand all of these factors that are in play
that are challenging me on a daily basis. And when
I talk from this perspective, it's a beautiful journey that

(11:54):
I'm trying to embrace. But when you are immersed in
the dark moment, it's kind of hard to really get
out of that.

Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah. No, I love what you're saying because in the Geta,
the ancient text of India, it's spoken on a battlefield,
and the idea is that you're always on a battlefield,
and as you said, on the battlefield, you see the
best of yourself and the worst of yourself. And often
people said that to me when I moved to La.
Everyone's like, why do you want to be in La.
There's so much materialism, there's so much you know, illusion here,

(12:24):
And I said, well, actually, I feel like I'm on
the battlefield here, so I see the best of myself
and I see the worst of myself, and the worst
of myself reminds me to keep going and to keep
working on myself, and the best of myself allows me
to share my message with the biggest megaphone in the world.
And so it's that dichotomy of actually, when you're looking
for spiritual growth, you want to be in a place

(12:47):
that reminds you of your weaknesses as much as your strength,
because if you are only reminded of your strength. You
just have your ego, and if you were only reminded
of your weaknesses, well then you would be depressed or disheartened.
That balance is really interesting. As I'm listening to you,
I'm thinking, do you feel like in your career you've
achieved everything you set out to as a tennis player?

Speaker 1 (13:09):
Yes, and more than that. And at the same time,
I still want to do more. And I know that
that comes in a big part from a good place,
meaning from a place of purpose, inspiration, motivation, love for
the sport, passion for the sport, passion to make people
happy when they watch me. If I'm doing that, and

(13:30):
I have a feeling that I am by still actively
being on the tennis tour and having my tennis career
active tennis career, I'm still spreading that light by playing
tennis and inspiring younger generations. That's something that comes from
a good place. But what comes from maybe i'ld say,

(13:51):
not necessarily a bad place, but less of a good place.
I have identified that as well is my feeling of
not being enough, and that goes back to my very
very beginning of my life and my relationship, particularly with
my father and being not doing enough, not being good enough,

(14:13):
et cetera, et cetera. So so now that I'm talking
about I kind of get emotional about it because it's
still deep inside of me, and it's kind of the
battle that I also go through often because a lot
of people, even closest people in my life, ask me,
you know, what more do you want? You know, you
have achieved everything, What do you want? Why do you

(14:34):
keep going? And I tell them the good part that
I told you that I still really strongly feel it's
inside of me, and I feel like, as long as
I have the capacity or ability to compete for the
biggest titles in my sport, I want to keep going.
And also partly the part that I didn't mention that
inspires me to keep going is to test my limits

(14:58):
mentally and physically. Because when I was starting to break
through in the professional tennis, I remember, when you reach
your thirty you start counting your days to your retirement.
Like after thirty, you know that's it pretty much, even
though there were some exceptions, like Jimmy Connor is the
legend of our game. He played I think semi finals

(15:19):
or finals of US Open when he was forty. You
know still still you know, dominating the tour, so there
were very but very few exceptions. Nowadays it's different. Why
because I think the care for the body has improved
so much. I mean now not only top ten or
fifteen guys or girls on the tour have like multiple

(15:42):
people in their squad to take care of them. You
have top fifty people that are taking care of them.
It's due to the improvement, of course, of the conditions
for the players. And you know, we earn more across
the board, so it gives you, it allows you to
hire more people that would take care of your body.
And I think that it's also a kind of a

(16:04):
curiosity from my side, how how far can I go?
You know, I'm thirty eight this year, you know, how
long can I push my own limits? And I don't
feel like I do have limits, and I feel like
the limits are normally constructs in our mind. I've seen
the episode you did with Brian Johnson the other day
and then he talked about you know, he's, by a

(16:25):
lot of people's opinion, very extreme, but you know, he
dedicated his own entire life to getting the data and
understanding what are the best conditions for the longest living
life that he can have for himself, which I think
is something that is admirable, and you know, give him
huge credit for that. And I understand because as a

(16:48):
professional athlete, you know, the care for your body and
your mind and the devotion to the daily habits is
so tough because when you want to change a certain habit,
science says it takes at least twenty one days right
for the brain to start growing new neurons that are reprogramming.

(17:09):
But if you don't have the right environment, that's going
to be very, very challenging. So that was also one
of the things that I wanted to reflect on. And
your question is the environment is the one that can
be very stimulative to you. It can be really supportive
or it can be pulling you down. So it's super important.

(17:30):
Even though we always encourage ourselves to be independent in
terms of what we do, what we eat, how we sleep,
you know, how we lead our lives and what we
do and how we can live the best version of
our lives possible. But at the same time, we are
social beings. We are very tribal beings, and even if
it's the smallest community, we still want to belong to

(17:52):
that community. We still want this community to support us,
even if it's one person or two. But it's super
important in the end of the day because you know,
making tough choices. These are tough choices because society when
you go out there, you know, super majority of the
places where you go to eat or people that you see,
it's a kind of a vicious cycle and they lead

(18:12):
their life in a certain way that maybe doesn't coincide
or correspond to your choices that you want to make,
the new choices or maybe the new changes. So it's
really hard, you know, I mean, living in the big
city and deciding you want to go through transformational journey.
On a daily basis, we're being exposed to something that
is contrary to what you're trying to achieve. I feel

(18:34):
like it's reinventing yourself constantly. You know. For me, I've
had this kind of upbringing, had the great foundation, and
you know, I've achieved incredible things. I was dreaming of
becoming number one in the world and becoming a Wimbledon champion,
and that was my dream. I achieved that dream within
two days. I won Wimbledon and at the same day

(18:55):
became number one in the world in twenty eleven, in
front of my family, in front of President of Serbia
who was there. I mean, it was with the welcoming
of hundreds of thousands of people on the way back.
It's just, you know, once in a lifetime type of experience,
and when you do something for the first time, obviously
that big. It's just like you're you're flying to the moon.

(19:16):
I mean you're not. It's a kind of an old,
out of body experience. But then I felt like I
had to set new goals. And because I was, you know,
at the time twenty eleven, I was twenty three years old,
twenty four So okay, what do I do next? You know,
I feel like I'm a peak of my powers and
I want it so so then I want to wear
multiple slams, that I want to win all slams at once,

(19:38):
that I want to win gold medal for my country,
that I want to make history, and so forth. So
I think goal oriented mind, particularly in sports, but also
in business or anything. Really, I think it's super important
because the clarity from my experience is something that is
essential to have also peace of mind and to have

(20:00):
have a calm heart that you know what you're doing,
and that you set your goals, your short term goals,
your long term goals, and you know exactly the strategy
that you need to implement to achieve them. And you
surround yourself with the people who are supporting you, but
also people who are telling you what you don't want
to hear, you know, giving your constructive criticism or maybe

(20:21):
giving you non constructive criticism and then putting you very down.
But that's also part of the journey. It's also learning
how to get up like a phoenix and rise and
try to develop a thick skin, so to say. So
it's a constant process. Really, I don't see myself fully satisfied,
if that's maybe a shorter answer, because I have that

(20:44):
part of me which is like, you know, I think
I can still do more, but I'm at the other
side of me is like, of course I'm fully I'm
happy and I'm proud and in a way I can't
wait one day for me to reflect on everything. But
while I'm still in my active career, I don't have time.
Tennis has the longest season of all sports. Generally starts

(21:06):
generally ends almost end of November, and of course I
earn my right in a way to be selective with
tournaments where I play. So that's what I'm doing. I'm
not playing as much, focusing on the big ones, and
I'm trying to incorporate all these other things inside of
my career and basically expand the platform and use my

(21:26):
voice for other things than just the tennis court. And
I'm super blessed to be in a position that I am.
But as I said, it's a constant journey and process.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
Yeah, I really appreciate you being honest about your experience
with your father, because I think that pretty much anyone
who goes off to do something successful externally, all of
us and everyone was channeling some sort of internal inadequacy
or an internal feeling of not being enough, as you said,

(22:00):
And I wanted to ask, when did you first become
aware of that, that you had that feeling of not
being enough? And how have you helped that evolve in
the healthiest way possible. What has been that journey of
almost having to live with it because it's there, but
not letting it be your guiding light.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
Well, you're right, it makes sense because I think if
you use it as the right fuel, it can actually
serve as a great motivating factor, right. It can push you,
it can stimulate you to extract the most amount of
necessary energy on a daily basis to achieve your goals

(22:39):
and to basically live your dream. I think for me,
it started really as something that was inevitable as a
part of the environment that I was in. I touched
upon that a little bit in our conversation five six
years ago. May upbringing with several wars and sanctions and
embargo and poverty and everything. So you know, from a

(23:00):
very young age, I was basically forced to mature very
quickly because I'm I'm a oldest of the three brothers.
I have two younger brothers, So as an oldest son
to my father, I was basically kind of in a
position where I had to be informed very early on,
particularly the age of eleven twelve, when we had that

(23:22):
bombing and the war and sanctions that stayed, that we
are in as a family or as people of my country,
the situation, the circumstances. My father had to bring it
forward to me in a very clear, mature way. So
you know, one of the most impactful moments of my upbringing,
my childhood is when he brought ten Deutsche marks and

(23:45):
I've said this story many times, which is equivalent to
ten dollars, and he said, this is all we got
for our family of five is living in a super
small apartment. That's where it hit me. It was like, Okay,
now I have to take the means in my hands
as a twelve year old boy in whatever way I can.
At least what I can do is support my mother,

(24:05):
maybe from some of the burden that she has during
the day of taking care of my younger brothers. And
that's where it also hit me that not having success
is not an option like I have to succeed. It's
basically a matter of existence, a survival of my family.
So I think it started there and then over the

(24:28):
years it has obviously transformed or evolved into different kind
of form. But I think that and also my relationship
with my father oftentimes because of maybe lack of patience
of my father or people around, because everyone saw that
I have a talent. I was coming from Serbia that

(24:50):
had no tennis tradition, no tennis culture. We are a
nation of a team sports. We are definitely a sporting nation.
We love sports, but team sports, and at that point
during nineties, it was about survival. People were watching sports,
but there was not much support for the sports. It
was particularly not tennis, a very expensive sport at the time.

(25:12):
I chose the most difficult sport for my parents in
the most difficult time for our nation and for my family.
So oftentimes I wouldn't travel because we didn't have money.
And then you know, obviously, as you can imagine, Tennis
Federation didn't have, you know, money to support me, so
my father had to go and bag and then he
was also borrowing money from unfortunately in some criminals at

(25:36):
the time during nineties, and then they would you know,
they would tell him it's a funny story right now,
but at the time it wasn't funny as particularly for him.
But you know, he would go and he said, first
time I was going to go to the United States
to play, I was fifteen years old. I was going
to play like big junior events here like Prince Cup
and Orange Bowl there are the biggest ones under sixteen

(25:56):
and under eighteen. And also more importantly, I was going
with my father hopefully to get the sponsorship or you know,
get recruited by one of the big agencies IMG's or whatever.
So he went for us for money because we didn't
have so he went to ask for five thousand dollars
and so these criminal people that you could borrow money

(26:19):
from because banks obviously would not give it to you.
And then they said, you know, he asked them, you know,
are you how much are You're in rush? And he's like, listen,
I'm asking this money from you because of my son.
He's playing tennis. We're going in America. You know, I'll
return this money within whatever they agreed on, one or

(26:39):
two months, whatever it is. Three months, he says, interest
rate was fifteen percent, but because you were in rush,
it's twenty five. So my father was like, okay, you know,
I'll take it because I have no other options. So
and I can only imagine the stress that he was
going through and trying to earn this money, where people

(27:01):
were really car chasing him, shootings in our capital town.
Stuff that my father went through, you know, to really
not only survive himself, but to actually allow all of
us to live and protect us and to allow me
to live my dream and to play the most expensive
sport at the time for my country is something that

(27:23):
I'm eternally indebted. I cannot there's no money or there's
nothing that can return the favor, so to say. So,
of course, my father's always my hero for that and
my champion, but you know, feeling of not enough because
of that stress and what things that he was going through.
And then it was hard because he was giving me
also hard time if I wouldn't play well, and it's

(27:45):
like and then I understood, but at the same time,
I was afraid. I knew what I have to do,
but you know, it's hard for me to deliver it.
When you need it's like, okay, you need to win,
no matter what type of situation. He wasn't telling me that,
but that's how it felt, and it felt like that
for years. So that's why I say that the success

(28:07):
that I have achieved is not only due to my father,
my parents, or myself. It's also the divine higher force.
I strongly believe that there was an intervention and there
still is. There's higher forces in power that were helping
me in some of the most difficult moments in my

(28:29):
family as well. I am a man of faith, and
I really truly believe in God and a higher spiritual
force that intervenes in the most difficult moments. If you
open your heart, if you pray and if you believe
in it, so I felt it on my own skin, Jade.
To be honest, I really don't know how I won
certain matches. I cannot explain it, even with my team.

(28:51):
After I would finish a Grand Slam final against Roger
Featherer in twenty nineteen Wimbledon, when he was a far
better player, saved some match points and I came off
the court. All stats were going his way. I won
the match, and I just said, you know, and I
wasn't playing well, I wasn't feeling well on the court,

(29:11):
and I was just like struggling and scrambling and trying
to stay out there, stay alive. And I won in
the end in one of the most epic finals in
history of tennis. And then, you know, I told to
my parents and my family and my team, I said,
and my wife, I said, I don't know how I
won this match. I have no idea. At the same time,
I do know deep inside that there's that connection happening,

(29:35):
and that there's also that help, so that there's a
mix of things. It's really hard to explain. Sometimes there's
this divine power that really if you allow it, if
you believe it that really helps you come out of
a trouble and achieve things.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from
our sponsors. Thanks for taking a moment for that. Now
back to the discussion. What has been your point of
connection or practice with that higher power that keeps you connected?
What's been that for you? There's so many different traditions
and different methods. What's been the method for you that

(30:15):
you find especially in those moments that you're able to
tap in? Because I find that if you're able to
tap in in really difficult times, it means you're doing
something in good times because it doesn't just suddenly turn
on when you need it. So what has been your
particular practice, method system or theory that's kept you can.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
You hit the nail with that one. It's a consistent practice.
So it's prayer work, mindfulness, meditation, conscious breathing, visualization, presence,
basically many other things as well that just NLP or
you know, there's a lot of different techniques that I

(30:54):
have been practicing and trialing, always with myself before or
I would recommend it to someone else, and over the
years I've developed my own formula that changes depending on
the feeling, dependent on whether I'm on the court, where
I'm at home practice whatever it is that I'm doing.

(31:16):
But I try to do it when you know nobody's watching.
And sometimes I verbalize things, sometimes I don't. Sometimes I
write things down, sometimes I just internalize. It just depends.
But I think most importantly in the end is that
you're doing something. I'm actually reading this book. One of
the books that I'm reading currently is You Know The

(31:36):
Power of Surrendering and Letting Go. It is an amazing
book for me at the moment because because of my upbringing,
because of my character, and because of my life story,
hard for me to let go. It's hard for me
to surrender unless it's to the higher power. But I'm
still working on how to surrender and let go of

(32:00):
certain things in relationship with close ones, or my relationship
with the tennis or you know, if I lose a
match or a tournament, if I go through a crisis
period and know how to not hold something that pulls
me down or regrets or you know. It's a constant work.
But I feel like if you devote the time on

(32:21):
the daily basis whatever works for you, you had some
of the most amazing guests on your show that talked
about from neuroscientists to doctors and nutritionists and talked about
the healthy habits. So I don't want to be talking
as them as I'm not an expert, but in my
fields or sort of say, in my own life and experience,
I feel like I'm an expert because I have tried

(32:43):
and developed so many different things over the last thirty years,
and I know what works and what doesn't in a way.
But going back to the very beginning of organization, it's
not again a guarantee that it will keep on working
to the rest of my life. But I know what
will is my dedicated time in a day to this

(33:03):
practice mental practice, physical practice of course, activity practice that
I'm doing in the gym, outside and tennis court or
when I'm not training, I still do stuff, still do
some yoga practice, still do stretching, I still do breeding.
I love the chigong and the Chinese traditional medicine or
Chinese tradition practices. I think they're super good and important

(33:26):
that you can do even in your chair. There's always
there's ways and it's incredible. Nowadare's an Internet, and I
mean it is access to incredible things. All it takes
is a willpower to do it and a desire to say, Okay,
I'm consciously making this decision to change my life for better,
and I'm going to start with small steps super important.

(33:48):
It's hard. You have so much judgment in this society,
in this world, right, it's really hard for people, as
we talked about the environment, as much as effort you're
putting in, and then you come with your friend or
or whatever, with your family members and they start to
judge you because you're starting to act weird because you're
not normal. You're not conforming to the norms of the society,

(34:10):
whatever they are, because it's quite relative. You know, we're
all different, but you know, the norms of society are
not really healthy ones. Otherwise we wouldn't be where we
are as a world, ecosystem, as a whole, and as
people and what we are doing to our planet, et cetera.
There's a lot of awakening happening and it's great to
see that change. But it's not easy for people. And
I understand that, and it's okay not to feel okay.

(34:33):
We heard that many times as well, and sometimes, as
I said, accepting and embracing for me and letting go
of the fact that I cannot find a solution to
something that happens in my brain. In my mind is
also fine. Of being in a dark place for as
long as it requires, is also a humane thing. It's

(34:53):
also part of our life. I can see. There's also
a narrative that I don't really necessarily like or support
in our let's say wellness mindfulness space, wellbeing space, where
it's presented by certain people in such way that you
can only think positive thoughts and there's no room for

(35:14):
negative thoughts. That you know, every picture or video they
post online is smiling, it's great life and so forth.
I mean, that's not possible, right, I mean, you cannot
convince me that there is a single person in this planet,
even the monk in Tibet that is meditating twenty four
to seven, or an arthoist Christian priest in a holy

(35:37):
island in Greece that is twenty four to seven praying,
you know, peace, isolated in the cave, that is not
experiencing some negative thoughts. And I always go back to
what one one of my friends told me that he's
also mental coach, and I've worked with him for years
and one of his teachers is zen Buddhism teachers, and

(36:00):
he goes to the temple in France often to his teacher,
and he asked him in one of the first times
that he was there doing retreats and spending time at
the temple, He says, how are you so calm? You know,
how is it that nothing really ravels you or unsettles
you like you always so serene and you don't have

(36:22):
any negative thoughts? And he said. The answer from the
teacher is that he says, it's not true. He says,
I probably have more negative thoughts and more challenging thoughts
and emotions than you have. The difference between you and
me is my training and my ability to not stay

(36:43):
in that state and in that emotion for a long time.
So I stay in it for seconds and you stay
in it for who knows right. So I think there's
true wisdom in that. And it's all about practice everything.
I mean, brain is a mussle like any other, even
consciousness that comes naturally to us. I mean, we are conscious,

(37:06):
spiritual beings, We are souls on this planet, in this body.
But in order for us to connect with our true self,
we need to go through these layers, the constructs of
the society that has developed us in a way, has
shaped us, and that requires practice on a daily basis.
And that's not easy. Look, it's not easy not switching

(37:28):
on your phone or your TV the first thing in
the morning, but doing something that is maybe not as healthy,
but being devoted to that practice or you know, during
the day, having that little one, two, five, ten, twenty
minute rest time and comprehension time. It's not easy to
do that, especially for people that didn't develop that kind
of habit. It doesn't come naturally. I mean, my even

(37:51):
though I don't like giving advices, we talked about it,
but I like to share something that works as a suggestion,
something that works extremely well for me. And then, and
this is crazy that even in the twenty first century
we are even talking about this as a hack. It
should be like an everyday thing that it's most natural
thing is to spend time in nature. Listen to the

(38:13):
birds chirping, listen to the wind, feel the wind, feel
the I mean, if you're by seaside or ocean side,
walk by the water or any water or a pond
or lake, or just be without the phone and in nature,
let the nature do its job and heal you. And
there's so much more power to that than we actually think.

(38:35):
And I felt like, in the darkest moments when I
really don't want to do any of these techniques, so
all the time indoors, I just go out and I
just go out and preferably walk uphill, because I feel
like when you walk uphill, your heart rate raises obviously,
and because of that effort, you're even more present, so

(38:58):
even less time for your thoughts to consume you, so
you're like fully present, and then when you get to
a certain point high at the top, you feel good
about yourself because you've done something. You're in the nature,
You're dedicated time to yourself, So I feel like that's
super powerful and it's oftentimes very underestimated.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
The reason why I love hearing about your practice is
just because I think I think an athlete's mind is
one of the most unique places on Earth because when
you're dealing with extremes every day and every week, and
both extremes are being number one and then losing a game,
and you know everything that goes on, the toolkit you
have is one of the most versatile toolkits and that's

(39:40):
why I asked that question, was just to understand what
you do. I was going to ask you, like, I
feel like one of the most challenging things and you
probably remember this when you are the new kid on
the block and you're playing all the legends and today
you're the legend and you're playing the new kids on
the block, and it must be such a fascinating experience
to go through. And when you talk my the power
of letting go and the power of surrendery I wanted

(40:03):
to talk to us about that, Like, what did it
feel like when you were the new kid on the
block and you were playing your legends that you looked
up to, and now you're the legend, You're you're the
number one playing the new kids on the block, Like,
what does that mentally look like?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
It's a completely different feeling, obviously, and different perspective. I mean,
when you're a teenager coming up and then you know
you're in a dream land when you are just sharing
a locker room with the legends of the game or
the guys that you look up to your biggest rivals.
They are becoming your biggest rivals later on, but at

(40:38):
that point they're heroes. They're like, why gosh, I mean
these guys, I've seen them on the TV, and now.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
Who is that for you?

Speaker 1 (40:45):
I mean, look, my idol growing up was Pete Tampress.
And even though Pete Pete's game and my game are
quite different, I don't know. I love his demeanor. I
love his ability to cope with the pressure and how
he was coming up with the best tennis when it
mattered the most, and that was a kind of a

(41:05):
sign of a greatest champion. I mean, he was holding
a record for most slams and a week's number one,
et cetera for a long time until Roger came and
Rapa of course, and then of course paved the way,
and then you know, looking up to them as well.
Even Nadal is only a year older than me, but

(41:26):
he made a breakthrough earlier than I did. It's already
for a couple of years. He was on the tour
when I started coming in, and he was already number
two in the world's multiple slam winner and et cetera. So,
of course, it was kind of a surreal experience for me,
and I tried to enjoy it and embrace it, but
at the same time, I felt like, Okay, it's great

(41:48):
to share the court with these guys, but I want
to beat them. You know, I want to get the
biggest titles. I want to be number one, I want
to dominate. So I think that the first kind of
that wave that I was writing on helped me to
win my first Slam when I was nineteen in Australia.
Australian Open in two was and eight, and then I

(42:11):
won a couple of big tournaments and so forth. I
reached the number two in the world, but you know,
I still wasn't number one. And then I had a
three year period I didn't win a Slam. I was
winning some big tournaments, but I couldn't win a Slam.
These two guys were beating me in every big match,
feather and adult. I changed rackets, you know, team members.
I did everything I can to kind of find the

(42:34):
right formula, and I was struggling physically as well. I
wasn't you know. That's where I actually I had my
transformative journey nutrition wise, where I took out the gluten
and dairy products and refined sugar. Up to that point,
I was eating all of these things, thinking well, I'm
eating relatively healthy I mean relatively healthy. I thought, you know,
that's what I know. But then, you know, when I

(42:56):
started working with this doctor and he pointed out, you know,
you have strong gluten intolerance, messes up with you. You
got to take that out. You got to take out
the dairy product because that creates a lot of inflammation
in your body. You might be able to eat it
later on, but not now. And refined sugar absolutely no.
So that was a huge change. But I committed to it,
and then I felt that affected me. In fact, my

(43:19):
mental clarity, my recovery was much better, my decision making
on the court was better, et cetera. So that helped
a lot, and of course mentally as well. I was
working on certain programs that I had from you know,
that were kind of not really very positive and not
really serving the purpose on the court of winning a match.
So that year in twenty ten twenty eleven, is when

(43:43):
I experienced a huge boost of energy and transformation and
that change an unbeaten round of forty plus matches and
had three slams and became number one and had one
of the best seasons of my life. And that's where
everything started going in the upwards direction. For me, and
learning also from these guys and the matches that we've

(44:04):
played against each other was something that was extremely important
for me at the time. I was, of course trying
to consume as much as I can this energy of
the center court and everything, and it was overwhelming at times.
But I was also very thorough in my analysis of
the matches afterwards, even though I don't necessarily like to

(44:27):
watch matches that I lost. But you know, Kobe Bryant
used to talk about this a lot, and when I
was talking to him personally about that, he would because
I tell him, Kobe, I really don't like, you know,
watching myself perform bad or when I lost, and it
just gives me this cramps in my stomach and I
don't like it. And he said, even if it's just

(44:50):
specific intervals of the match that you lost that you
want to watch that, you definitely look at that and
you need to analyze that, and you need to go
through that cramping feeling because that's where you learn from
those those mistakes, and that's where you have an opportunity
to rectify that the next next tournament or next match

(45:10):
and so forth. So that helped a lot, and I
do watch the matches that I lost, and highlights in
certain parts, but I never watch the last point. I
don't want to watch the point where my opponent, you know,
fist pumps and raises his hands. I just maybe it's
I don't know, it's a superstition or not, but it's
just some kind of a feeling that I have. But yeah,

(45:33):
I just you know, those rivalries really shape me into
the person I am, into the player that I am,
and definitely grateful for for everything that I experienced with
these guys.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
And now the flip, now when you're playing the younger.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Well, now the flip is obviously an interesting experience for
me because when Feather and Nadal and Murray, my biggest
rivals retired actually most recently in the in the last
year to part of me left with them. And I
really feel that because and I thought, well, it's not

(46:06):
going to be difficult for me to kind of shift
my attention in terms of who are my principal rivals
on the tour from them to someone else, But you know,
it is it is tough because you know, I'm used
to these names, these guys, these faces for twenty years,
and then new faces come in and it's normal, how

(46:27):
can I say, evolution of our sport, And it's normal
that you have new generations that are kind of come
in and dominate the tour. I'm experiencing something I have
never experienced before, but that's also fine. You know, I'm
trying to embrace this journey. But also I think what
is very important to me personally and what I have

(46:49):
expressed directly to all of my basically rivals currently today,
the young guys who are going to be the carriers
of the tennis for the next decade, is that I'm
here for them to share my experience, even though it's
difficult because we're facing each other, but I still feel

(47:11):
that in a way that's also my role, it's also
my responsibility, and it's also a great opportunity for me
to do that because it really fills my heart with
joy that I'm able to convey my experience, is my knowledge,
whatever that I can from my journey to new generations,
because naturally, the tennis should get better, and we all

(47:34):
want tennis to get better, to be better, and I
want somebody to break my record in the future, or
all of the records. Why not, I mean, this is
how it should be if I can contribute in a
way where I can say, hey, a side of the
barriers that we created in a rivalry. If you need
help with I don't know, public relations, if it's marketing,

(47:57):
if it's dealing with the outside world as well. That
is it's very difficult dealing with anxiety. We all have that,
you know, we all know how it is to feel alone,
you let yourself down or you let other people down.
Mental challenges in a high level professional sport are one
hundred percent present with everyone. It's just a matter of

(48:18):
how you deal with it, who you have in your
support system that can help you. So I feel like
it was great when I was able as a kid
to ask some of the guys who were playing at
the top level, you know, some of the questions that
were interesting me, and that just hearing from them two
or three sentences of how they think that they were

(48:40):
dealing with it and how that affected them was huge
to me. Even if you heard it from someone else,
but just hearing it from them, it just has this
resonant power and impact and it did help me a lot.
I didn't have it from my top rivals at the time,
but I had it from some guys like even Yubichich,
for example, who was, you know, a fellow creation tennis player,
and he was number three or four in the world

(49:01):
at that point, and then I was breaking through as
a teenager and we shared the same tennis coach. He
influenced me in a positive way to like change the
racket or string pattern or strings and all these small
details that you might not think that are maybe relevant
or but you hear them, You hear it from them,
and then you're like, Okay, now I'm ready to make

(49:22):
the decision because I trust what he tells me, because
you know, he is a testament to what he's preaching. Basically.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
It's so interesting because I love that you offered that.
I was talking to Carmelo Anthony recently, the basketball player
from the NIXT and you know, very successful Hall of Famer,
and he was telling me that in basketball he doesn't
find the young players being that open to coaching and
guidance from the senior players. How do you find it
in tennis? Is it more open?

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Is there?

Speaker 2 (49:51):
Did you get people coming back and saying, Novak, I
have loads of questions for you.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
Yeah, I would agree with that with Carmelo because also
in tennis because it's an individual sport as well. It
makes it even more isolated solitude sport where you are
focused on your team and you create your own environment community,
and you're like excluding everything else, which is understandable, you
know to some point. Contrary to let's say basketball, we

(50:17):
do share the locker room, so we're sitting next to
each other or warming up next to each other, riding
finals for the biggest tournament, which is crazy to think
about it, you know, whereas you know, obviously the basketball
or football soccer, you know, these guys that don't see
each other until they actually on the court, We you know,
look at each other, send each other looks, Our team

(50:38):
members send each other looks in the locker room and stuff.
So the battle starts already there. So from that point
of view, it's kind of hard to expect that they
would come and say, hey, look, you know, give me
some advice. How can I beat you? But that's why
I'm saying, like, there's many more other things that can
be very helpful, like outside of the court. And yes,

(51:00):
there are some young players that are how can I say, open,
more flexible, more curious, and I think it's maybe not
so much about that, But it's about how shy you
are or how courageous you are to really, you know,
break that boundary and not be afraid of coming to
me or to someone that you look up to and say, hey,

(51:22):
can I ask you a question? You know? More often
I would get questions through their team members, to my
team members, to me and so, and then I would
approach them and say, hey, you can. You know you
can talk to me, there's no problem. Yeah, but you know,
I don't want to bother you and stuff like that.
So yeah, I think it's very nice if you have
that exchange, even if it's a short one, because the

(51:45):
level of appreciation and respect, which I think is ultimately
the most important thing in sports. You know, Yes, we
all want to win, Yes we all want to be
the best. Yes we all want to make records in history.
But appreciating what your fellow athlete goes through compassionate, being
compassionate and empathizing with him or her and respecting the

(52:08):
process is something that is more eternal in your heart,
in your soul, and in the eyes of all the
other people than any achievement or any success. I mean,
that's at least how I see it.

Speaker 2 (52:21):
I love that I can agree with you more because
I always try to remind people that the only person
who can truly relate to you is that person like
your competitors exactly, are the only people who can actually
relate to what it feels like to be you, because
your team they can't fully relate. Of course they can relate.
They play tennis and they understand the game, but they

(52:43):
don't know what it feels like to be in that
locker room before you go on to be at the
net when the score is not in your favor. Even
I talk about it, even in our industry. I like
to be friends with everyone in my industry, and I
like to connect with anyone that you genuinely get along with,
because for me, I'm like the only person who understands
what it feels like to interview people, to get the

(53:06):
public criticism, to have the scrutiny, to be careful about
what you're saying to you know, whatever it may be.
And if I'm not friends with you, I have my
friends from back home in London who I loved and
my best friends, but they don't know what it feels
like to do this right. And so in this part
of my life, there's a difference. I wonder with you you've
been through and I want to talk about some really

(53:27):
pivotal moments. You've been through so many injuries, losses, all
of that. At this point in your career, when you've
achieved so much, you've been through so much, what goes
through your mind when you lose?

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Now answer that, but just want to reflect from what
you said on the industry, because I think it's super important,
and that's the mentality, the right kind of mentality, and
the philosophy of instead of division, it's unity, its collaboration,
it's understanding, its support, its respect, it's appreciation, it's coming together,

(53:59):
it's growing industry together. Understanding that you're all, Yes, you
are competitors. I mean, even in your industry, you compete
for the audience and so forth. And there's a lot
of you know, podcasts out there, and it's understandable to
a certain point that you know there are certain formulas
that you developed and tools that you want to keep

(54:19):
to yourself, which is one hundred percent understandable. But at
the same time, overall, in a general perspective of things,
we are part of the same industry. We need to grow,
we need to grow this awarenes So that's how I
also see it for tennis. You know, in sports even
more so, competition and the kind of a fierce mentality

(54:40):
is so prominent to the point where, like, for example,
in basketball, I love basketball. You know, Serbia is a
country of basketball, is our you know, national sport number one.
And you have intentionally, maybe in the midst of a
battle under the rim fighting for a rebound, hurt somebody

(55:02):
and that's somebody You elbowed somebody, okay, and that somebody
is down and you can see him in pain, and
you don't come and give him a hand and say,
hey man, sorry, let's go. I don't see how that
exposes your weakness, because I think that's in the center
of everything. It's like, don't show your weakness, don't show
your verlnerability, be strong, be tough whatever. Of course, we

(55:27):
have to be tough, be strong, be whatever, be fierce
in terms of like wanting to win and finding a
way to win. But that doesn't mean that we can
be also human beings that Hey, if I did something
to you in a contact sport like basketball, if it's
a foul or something like that, hey, you just give
him a hand. One second and says, whatever, let's go,
let's keep it going. That doesn't mean that you will

(55:48):
not battle in the next minute again. So that's the
part which I don't really understand fully or don't support it.
But that's why I feel like coming together and really
showing that respect, even if it's you know, before the
game and after the game, it really resonates with people.
It does scent overall a good message, and I think

(56:10):
it improves the sport and brings people more together. Now
to your question about losing a match, right, that was.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Yeah, like at this stage of your career, I feel
like you've obviously we've talked about it, you're satisfied, you've succeeded,
You've come back from like being down on points, and
I'm trying to get into your mindset just where it's
at today and how it's evolved over time, Like what
does it feel now when you lose, have an early exit, Like,
what does that feel like now compared to before?

Speaker 1 (56:38):
As hard as as hard as it was before. Yeah,
sometimes there is no rule. Sometimes it takes me an hour,
sometimes a half a day, sometimes a day, sometimes a
week to go over the loss. I mean, it just
really depends, but right after the match. You know, I
would if I have to reflect about the match with

(57:00):
my team, but I just want to be left alone. Yeah,
I just have to go through my process. I don't
like the chit chat, the small talk of trying to
lift my spirits up right after the match. I just like,
just give me some time. I need to isolate myself.
Go in my room, go outside, walk whatever it is,

(57:22):
you know, just blow some steam out. And then when
I do that, then I'm ready to you know, talk,
socialize and stuff like this. I don't know whether that's
something that is good or not in general terms, but
that's just me. I feel like it's really hard for
me to digest that I lost the match. As I said,

(57:42):
sometimes sax longer, sometimes shorter to get out of it.
But I do need definitely, like a few hours to
not see anybody, Like I hug my kids. If I
say my kids, you know my kids sometimes within those
few hours they get me and they're like, Benny, we
have to do this. You have to take me there
and stuff. So kids have that permission to come into

(58:03):
my space, but you know, anybody else, I just need
some time, and I just feel like it's sometimes it
is necessary to have that, and in solitude is not
necessarily bad. And I feel like we all need to
learn how to embrace being in solitude and being by
and enjoy being by ourselves. Doesn't mean that we have

(58:24):
to go to total extreme, but it has to be
balanced and optimal. But we need to create that time
for ourselves. Because also being bored is good, you know,
being bored. This is something very interesting, you know that
I also see with my kids, like particularly with my son,
keeps on telling me he's ten and he's like daddy,

(58:45):
Like he just recently told me. A few days ago,
we were that my parents places countryside by the lake,
and we were alone and we were playing different We
were playing ping pong, we were doing some chai king
in the lake, so and we played some football soccer.
So we have a quite active few hours of the

(59:06):
first few hours of the day. And then I was
doing something else. I don't know what I was doing,
and then he comes up to me. It's like, Daddy,
I'm bored. And then I had him sit down with
me and I said the son, it's okay to be
bored sometimes. First of all, you had a great active
morning and you did a lot of things. And second

(59:27):
of all, you know, when you're bored, it doesn't mean
that you have to instantly take a book or a
screen or anything else. You need to also learn how
to be with your thoughts. And if you're not comfortable
being bored indoors, go outdoors, sit on a chair and
have some drink and just look at the sky. And

(59:50):
I think that's much easier said than done. And I
really would love my children to be able to be
okay with being bored, because that's the time when you're
actually most creative, or that's the time where you can
manage your thoughts and everything that you have been suppressing
by distracting yourself with phone, with whatever it is. They

(01:00:12):
don't have my kids or have phones. They're ten and seven,
and that's another conversation. But you know, it's a struggle,
but it's important, you know, I think it's super important,
particularly for them at this young age, to understand and
develop a connection with nature, with outdoors, with activity, with
all these things. And then it's inevitable, you know, soon

(01:00:33):
it will come a moment where they'll have the screens
and while they're blend into the society's norms. But at
least I'll be comfortable as a parent that I've done
what I can to instill some of the foundational things
in them that they will appreciate, maybe not now but
later on in life. I think also, you know, when

(01:00:54):
I lose a match, I want to be distructed by
some I want to have my phone, I want to
watch something, read something, I want to I want to
distract myself. And that's one of the bad habits that
I have. So it's it's a battle for me. And normally,
how I win this battle is just go outside and
I either don't take my phone, I'll leave it, or

(01:01:14):
if I take it, I'll just if I'm in the city,
I'll just listen to something, listen to Jay Setty's podcast
on purpose, or I would do something, you know, just
or normally I would listen to a music, you know, relaxing,
just to kind of calm myself. I would prefer not
listening to anything and just being immersed in whatever is
outdoors and trying to trying to find a park, trying

(01:01:37):
to find anything natural, you know. And I think that
helps a lot, but I do need my time.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
Yeah, that's reaffirming for me. Because if I'm having a
tough time, I've always found that being alone, I have
to first make sense of how I feel about something
before I hear everyone else's feelings, right, because otherwise someone's
feeling won't satisfy me. So even if someone said, and
I assume that's what you're saying, if someone came up

(01:02:04):
to and goes, oh, but Jay, but everything's going to
be all right, it's like, if I don't feel that,
and if I don't believe that, it doesn't matter how
many times someone says it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
And of course the intention is good, of course a person,
but it's hard for you to see that at a
given moment. So I agree with that, and I think
to the point of distractions, I don't think that necessarily
distractions are one hundred percent super negative. And I'll explain.
I think that for a lot of people they need

(01:02:33):
a moment. However that moment lasts to it looks like
they're distracting themselves, like when I do it. But what
I do is just bringing myself back to that center
whatever that is, okay, and then I'm ready to do
some other practice of breathing or whatever it is, or

(01:02:55):
I can socialize. I can start speaking with people and
do other things. So I don't feel it's necessarily bad
unless you don't have any control of it, unless it
just carries you into hours and hours of playing games
or being on social media of being If it's that,
then it's not good. Then it's not good because then
you're disrupting your own rhythm.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
Well, what you're doing is you're disrupting the pattern, so
instead of being there and then you're just playing the
game again in your head and being down on yourself
and being negative, and so you're disrupting that pattern with
the distraction, right, and then that's a good thing because
then you don't get into the spiral and it's not
like you're checking what people said on the comments. It's
about the game, right, you're disconnecting.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
From the game, disconnecting. Well, the thing is that if
you're on social media, which I do have a tendency
to go to social media as well, like right after
even though I don't want to, but part of me
wants to. It's also where I find some short clips
of what happened in the match and then kind of
like analyze what happened and why I did what I
did or whatever. What could I could could have better?

(01:04:01):
And then I see, you know, there's obviously there's these
shocking headlines like Djokovic is out, you know, he lost.
I mean, what a shock early, blah blah blah. And
then I get pissed off, and then I just switched
that off, right, so I don't even get to the
comments or section or anything like that. Then I just
leave it for whatever whatever time. And then what you're
doing is you are changing that state you're in, because

(01:04:26):
if you are really wired in that moment, you are
like almost going to burst. It's not good. I mean,
how can you have a rational conversation with anybody if
you're in that state? And then normally in that state,
if you start making decisions when you're hot headed, not

(01:04:47):
good as well. I think that these are the ways
of like if you can like cool yourself down, and
then I mean a cold shower is something that I
also do sometimes when of cat headed that I think
also helps with kind of biology. And I feel like
physiology just like helps my mind my brain calm down,

(01:05:08):
and then I'm able to address topics that I want
to address.

Speaker 2 (01:05:12):
It's almost like what it takes to be to emotionally regulate,
and if you go straight into analyzing the game or
talking about it, you're actually your heartbeats going up, you're
breathing shallow again, you're replaying the misshot and all of
a sudden you're just bombarded by all the same emotions again,
and you've got to sometimes just calm that down before

(01:05:32):
you can do that effectively. It makes a lot of sense, exactly.
But what I love hearing, which is what I love
about all my favorite athletes, and you're definitely you know,
when I think about my favorite athletes, You're in tennis,
Christiano in soccer, Lewis Hamilton in f one. Like people
sometimes will make fun of Christiano online still crying when
he loses. I love that, Like as a fan, I

(01:05:53):
love that, Like I love to see that he's crying
after all this time. Like you know, he's the number
one goal scorer in the world. Oh right, he's you know,
in my opinion, he's achieved everything he possibly could. He's
played amazing for his country the same way as you.
But it's like he's still crying and the game's not
even it's not the Champions League.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
He cares, Yeah, he cares, exactly, He cares and I
agree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:06:16):
But first, here's a quick word from the brands that
support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.
Now let's dive back in.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
This is the point that we discussed on particularly men
professional sports. There's no room for vulnerability, and because that
shows weakness. Weakness exploits you, and when something exploits you,
then you're vulnerable to you know, lose the match or
game or whatever it is. I mean that that's the narrative.

(01:06:45):
When you are crying, you are, yeah, you're You're often
regarded as a very weak man. And I have had
the same view for quite a long time, I must say,
and I changed that about ten years ago. My upbringing,
there was no room for emotions. That was just like serious,

(01:07:06):
I have to do my job and I have to
be successful, no room for error, et cetera. But it also,
you know, comes from I think my home, where I
didn't have that relationship where I when I would cry,
I would be you know, with my father especially that
I would feel safe. I would not feel that, and
so I had to not cry and be tough, and

(01:07:28):
then I have to I kind of close myself, you know,
and to the point where I wasn't able to express
myself emotional inn the time when I started dating my
girlfriend at the time, my wife. You know, it was
hard for me to to kind of express what I feel.
Even though I'm a very talkative person. I very you know,
I like to communicate and I feel like I'm very

(01:07:52):
approachable in that in that sense. But for a long time,
that was that was a kind of an arratist, particularly
in you know, men's sports, as we talked about it.
So I do like that about Cristiana as well, because
in the end of the day, you know, he's giving
his heart out on the pitch for his team, for
the fans, and that ultimately needs to be respected because

(01:08:15):
the guy at his age forty, after everything he has achieved,
still going, still wants to win in a league that
is far weaker than the best leagues in Europe, you know,
but he still has this champions mentality and he'll always
have it as long as he's playing. So yeah, absolutely
credit to him for that, and I do resonate with that.

(01:08:36):
And I cried many times after my losses in the
locker room but also on the court, particularly after Olympics,
Like losses at Olympic Games, for my country or Davis Cup.
When I play for my country, that's like even stronger
intensity of emotions that you go through because you're not
playing for yourself only in that way. I mean, when

(01:08:57):
I play all the tournaments, I always represent my country,
but here in this official team competitions or Olympics, it's
even more emphasized the importance of your country of wearing
those colors, you know, on your sleeve or in your heart.
So when you lose your like you know, your soul
down and the whole world collapsed. I'm very happy that

(01:09:20):
I was able to win the golden medal for my
country last year in Paris Olympics because there was a
long time dream of mine and the Olympic Games are
just so special, you know, every four years. I know
LA is the next one. Obviously, my wish is to
be able to play LA. I mean hopefully I'll be
still still playing to be able to participate.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Yeah, I hope so too. It'll be fun. Yeah watch
you locally for one for sure. And we got that
soccer World come into America too. Yeah, it's an exciting time.
But no, it's I love hearing that as well, just
like when you're playing for yourself, you let yourself down,
you let the fans down. But when you're playing for
your country, you let the country down. And you know,
no one wants to let their country down. No one

(01:09:59):
wants you know, everyone wants to represent well. And I
think sometimes at a national level, athletes get it really
tough when you lose for your country.

Speaker 1 (01:10:09):
Yes, it's one of.

Speaker 2 (01:10:10):
The hardest feelings because, yeah, it's a different emotion, and
I think we forget as fans and followers, you forget
the human experience.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, look, we are very
blessed as athletes on the highest level to be able
to play the sport that we fell in love with, because,
if not all, but super majority of professional athletes play
those sports on the highest level because when they were
kids they wanted to play tennis, basketball, football, whatever. They

(01:10:44):
fell in love and it's a love and passion for
the game that got you going. So it's important to
state that because you know, we are for sure fortunate ones.
But at the same time, we feel that through sport
we are able to connect with people, and people are
able to connect with the virtues that sport and the

(01:11:06):
values that sport represents. That help them in their everyday life.
I think that's not something that has been talked about
a lot. And how why is it that our sports
are so popular. Why is it that people relate to athletes.
It's because of this grit, because of this battle. We
all go through internal battle on the daily basis. And

(01:11:28):
in sports, we can, of course admire the features of
an athlete and the skills and the talent and the abilities,
but at the same time we also identify ourselves with
those athletes. We feel like, wow, you know, this game
or a match, it's in a way, a condensed daily

(01:11:52):
life or condensed life into an hour two or three
where you start at the beginning, you're even then you
end up you know, winning or losing. But in the
process or journey of the match and the game, you're
going through ups and downs. You're going and particularly in
individual sports, you're going you mentioned Louis Hamilton, another great legend,

(01:12:14):
You're going through that battle of you know, trying to
win that inner battle where you go through your doubts,
your worries, your fears. So all of these elements are
part of everyday life of everyday person. And that's why
I feel like people relate to sports. And then also
they when they go to see sport live particularly, but

(01:12:36):
also when they watch it on TV, I feel they're
able because they they are so connected to the community
of that club or that athlete or whatever it is.
They feel like all of their problems stop at least
for those hour two three hours that they are watching,
and they feel like they can also when they're watching.

(01:12:58):
I mean, that's my obsvation and experience with tennis fans
for example, or I mean, of course I watched basketball
football live as well, or the other fans of the
other sports, is that's where they feel like they can
free themselves of the emotions and the burdens that they're
kind of wearing them down. And sometimes it really goes

(01:13:19):
to an extreme level where people start really or swearing
and fighting and throwing stuff at the athletes and behaving
really bad like hooligans. And that's obviously a part that
I don't support, but I can see that there's a
lot of people that are like That's that's why, like
after a gain, they either feel drained or they feel energized.

(01:13:40):
They either feel like they've kind of like collected that
energy from the stadium or they feel like they're completely
like a deflated balloon because they've you know, been through
crazy intensity of the emotions and they relate, They follow
every point and every second of the game, and then

(01:14:01):
they in the end. Of course, if the team loses,
it's a big difference than when they win. But it's
just that identification that happens that I feel like it's
super strong and why sports are so important for the
society and why people regard it as something very popular
and important for them.

Speaker 2 (01:14:18):
And I'm really glad you're having that conversation because I
think it can have even as a kid, like I
grew up playing sport, never you know, good enough to
play any semi professional even professional level, but sport created
discipline in my life, even as someone who wasn't you
know that prolificate. Sport created discipline, created teamwork if you
were playing a team. Sport created timeliness, created commitment, created

(01:14:41):
showing up. There were so many healthy, valuable masculine traits
as well that were so important and of course for
women as well. And it's interesting what you say about
it going the toxic side, because I think it was
the last Euros of the World Cup and there was
this statistic about how domestic violence in England goes up
up if England lose, but it goes up even more

(01:15:04):
if England win because people drink more when they win.
And that's just so shocking that you see that connection too,
And that's why I think it's even more important to
get these positive messages through sport out so that we
don't have that kind of a statistic because that's specifically
to do with football.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
So yes, of course, but it is super important, I think.
But in football it's far more extreme than in tennis.
In terms of the tennis fans are a bitter of
fans and you know the kind of like following and
being such an ultra devoted fan. I mean they literally
live for that the entire year, which I think is beautiful.

(01:15:45):
When you see choreographies of some fans in the basketball
games or football games and it's just it's arts. It's beautiful,
you know. And then this energy when thousands and tens
of thousands of people start singing together it's for their club.
I mean, it's incredible feeling. That's why we all love
being present to experience that, because ultimately human beings love

(01:16:09):
to experience things. Yes, that that feels our life, and
the sports allow us to do that. It allow us
to experience some incredible enthusiastic, exhilarating type of up lifting
energy joy. But it also the sadness or anxiousness and stuff,

(01:16:32):
and so all of these emotions that you go through
is just an incredible school of life in some way.
But you're right, you know, it also teaches professional sports
teach a great, great deal of discipline and also the
never giving up spirit that I think it's important for
people because today in the society, because a lot of

(01:16:55):
people look to conform to be comfortable to you know,
there's always, you know, something that I can do differently,
They don't finish things. So it's important to kind of
remind yourself to be devoted and not give up and
believe that you can achieve something that you set yourself
up to. And so, yess, sports definitely send those values,

(01:17:15):
and you're right, it's important to always emphasize that. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
One of my favorite stories actually of that never give
up mindset was Vanessa Bryant tells this story after Kobe
Bryant tragically passed away, and she said that Kobe played
through a lot of games, especially finals, when he was
injured yea, And she would ask him and say, why

(01:17:39):
you playing when you're injured? You should just not play
like it's okay. And he would say that if I
don't play, there's going to be a fan out there
who's saved up to watch this game and they can
only come to one game in their life because it's
expensive to get seats, and they saved up to watch
me play. And if I don't play, they won't see
me play. And so I'm going to play through an injury.

(01:18:01):
And I'm like, when you hear stories like that of
athletes doing incredible things, you think, wow, Like that's the power,
that's the motivation. I was going to ask you, I mean,
you've played through and overcome some bad injuries. What's the
worst injury that you ever had to overcome to be
able to come back at the top.

Speaker 1 (01:18:20):
I had a surgery of my elbow back in twenty seventeen,
and I've kind of had that injury for a year
and half, and I tried with I don't normally drink
anti inflammatories. I don't like those top tablets and courtes
on shots or anything like that. I feel like that's
only masking the problem. But you know, sometimes if you

(01:18:44):
really you know, in tennis, we sometimes play five six
days in a row and you have no other option,
and if you want to stay alive in the tournament,
you have to do it. So I've done it for
like a year or something with playing under these pills,
like every single match, to the point where I didn't
feel pain anymore. Sorry, actually I felt the pain even

(01:19:08):
if I was taking the full dose of anti inflammatories.
And that was the sign for me, like I have to,
you know, operate this. I have to do something different.
I made it kind of a little bit of a
while to myself and I promised that I will not
operate myself throughout my career, will not make any surgery.
And that was I felt. I let myself down. I

(01:19:28):
cried for days that I accepted to do a surgery,
but surgery was done very well. For days. Yeah, because
I felt like I let myself down. I said, you know,
I wanted to go throughout my entire career without having
one surgery. But it happened, and I had an arthroscopic
intervention on my knee last year during a match in
Rolling Garris, actually fourth round I've won in five sets

(01:19:50):
after four and something hours, but I was I was
winning set and half comfortably in the last sixteen round
and then I felt that click. It was something. It
was very weird and I never had an injury of
the knee, luckily, at least that severe. And then you know,
I started to play, but I could not stand on
my leg and I was playing through the pain that

(01:20:12):
I invited physio and a doctor and then you know,
he was touching me in this spot where my meniscus
is and I felt, wow, and that's very painful. He's like,
what do you want to do, and I said, listen,
you know, I want to give it a shot. I
want to try. Just give me strongest painkillers you have
right now, because I'm on the court, full stadium, I

(01:20:33):
can't just I want to try. So that's what he's
They've done, and after thirty minutes they started kicking in
and I was kind of surviving in these thirty minutes
and then the pain went down. The pain was still there,
but I went through it and I won the match
and I actually finished the match with pretty good feeling.
I still had pain, but it was pretty good feeling,
and I was like confident for my quarterfinals it was

(01:20:55):
coming up in two days. But the next day I
went for an MRI and I saw I have a
rupture the meniscus and basically had to be operated. So
I pulled out on the tournament and I did that operation,
and the Wimbledon was coming up in three weeks, and
then my team was I still remember that conversation with
my team on the rooftop and on the back of
that story that you told me about Vanessa and Kobe.

(01:21:19):
You know, Vanessa was telling Kobe, why do you play?
Don't play like it's a normal protective advice from a
dear person in your life. Same I got from all
of my people, from my family members to my team members.
And I remember my physio that I'm with for the
last twenty years. You told me, yeah, you know, it's
normally like four to six weeks and stuff like this,

(01:21:40):
but you know, we had some miraculous recoveries from some athletes.
La Ala and my physio was sitting on the rooftop
of our hotel and old team was there, and he said,
I know, you do not even think for a second
you'll play Wimbledon, Like that's out of the question. Wow,
And I didn't say anything. All the team members agreed.

(01:22:01):
I didn't say anything. Actually one thing I said. I said,
I understand what you're saying, but please, you know, for
my own mental sanity, because it's Wimbledon, because it's always
been a dream tournament, the most important tournament. Let's just
see how it goes in the next two weeks, because
I have three weeks to the tournament, and I can

(01:22:22):
pull out three four five days before the tournament, so
I have like two two and a half weeks to
play around. At that point, I was with crutches so
long ago, So long story short, I've dedicated so much
time in a day to recover and it was like
a task for me to prove even the closest people
in my team and family wrong that I can recover.

(01:22:44):
And it was really a mission. And I recovered, and
I played finals, and I lost last year finals in Wimbledon,
and then I a week after they came to the
Paris back again and played Olympics and won the gold medal.
So it was the best period of my twenty twenty
four season. Is when I actually had a surgery, a
post surgery, because something clicked in my head where he

(01:23:07):
triggered me my physio and said, do not even think.
And for me, what I heard is, Okay, thank you
for giving me the task, because now I have a
challenge on my hands. All I needed is that, And
actually that's what I need now. I feel like in
this phase of my career, when I'm trying to motivate
myself and keep going and stuff, I need a challenge.

(01:23:28):
I think athletes in the highest level after so long,
they need to feel their challenge. They need to feel
that they are playing a game, even though it's our job,
but we need to feel like somebody is going to
say something. You want to prove them wrong. Michael Jordan
and his last dance was talking about it. He's like,
even if I didn't have anybody in the crowds talking

(01:23:50):
crap to me, but I still picked someone and selected
him as an enemy. And just because I needed to
create that enemy inside of my head to get me going,
I actually relate to that. Even though I don't necessarily
always look for enemies in my every match in the crowd,
but I had quite an experience with tennis crowds over
the years in my career. Oftentimes when I would play

(01:24:13):
with Nadal and Feather, most of the times I would
have most of the stadium against me, so it would
be challenging. But that's also part of why my mental
toughness is as it is in a kind of a
hostile environment. Played most of my matches and big matches,
and I kind of had to find a way to
win a match and to use that energy as my

(01:24:34):
fuel and not have it wear me down.

Speaker 2 (01:24:37):
What does that take to do that? Because it sounds
like that scrutiny is worse than an injury. What's worse
that kind of hostile environment? Hostility or injury?

Speaker 1 (01:24:47):
Look, injury is the biggest enemy or an opponent of
an athlete. You can't do your job, you can't play
your sport if you're injured, which proves the point of
self care even more or how important it is, how
significantly you have to address that and approach that in

(01:25:08):
your daily life as an individual athlete particularly. But at
the same time, hostile environment is not ideal. I mean,
you always want to be playing where you're celebrated cheered
for of course it you know, lifts you up in
a tough moment when you're down. It just but I
learned in the somehow in the hostile environment to thrive.

(01:25:30):
And I've seen that, you know with like Kobe did
it as well, right Lebron. You know other athletes as
well in their respective sports talked about it and football
they experience it a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:25:42):
People can relate to that, Like I think people always
feel yeah, even the average person constantly feels like there
works a hostile environment or yeah wherever, Like what allowed
you to use it as fuel consistently over that time
to the point where people were cheering when you finally win.

Speaker 1 (01:25:58):
Well, there are a few things. First, I mentioned that
already is using that as a fuel to prove somebody wrong,
and that requires work mentally to be able to transform
or transmute that energy or that cheering that is against you,
to convince yourself it's for you. So I was. I

(01:26:21):
was saying this years ago after I was playing I
was playing feather in one of the Wimbledon finals. They
were cheering Roger Roger all the time, basically, So I've
was convincing myself, and I managed to convince myself, especially
in the second part of the match, that they were
cheering no No Lan or Novak Novak. I was That's

(01:26:42):
what I was hearing. Wow, and co and then and
in my mind was playing games, but I wasn't allowing
it to play games with me. That basically was like,
what are you talking about. I mean, they're saying Roger,
and I was saying Novac. But I was like, no, no, no,
they're saying Novak, Novak, Novc Novac. So I was using
that as my own force and my own fuel. I
just got and then, But that's it is possible. It

(01:27:02):
is possible, but you need to you need to work
on that and convincing yourself in something that is different
from the reality that is actually happening, or basically in
other words, creating your own reality, because in the end
of that's more philosophical question and spiritual whether this is
all one reality or it's a different We all experience

(01:27:25):
different forms of reality of what's happening. So creating your
own reality and convincing yourself and basically training your subconscious
mind that this is exactly what you want to hear.
It is possible, but it takes an effort, but it
goes a long way because for everyday person, you know,
you can tap into that subconscious mind that basically controls

(01:27:47):
ninety five percent of your one hundred percent daily life
while you're awake, you know, five percent is only I mean,
I was shocked, And that's science. That's not me saying
it's science that is saying that five percent is only conscious.
Ninety five is I was shocked when I heard that.
It's like, how in the world are we then able

(01:28:08):
to live how we want to live? Where we are
actually on an autopilot most of the time. And that
explains the multitasking. That explains why we can text and
drive and drink and speak and do five things at
the same time is because of the subconscious. But subconscious
is basically reacting to what you are instilling or uploading

(01:28:33):
in that program. So I feel like when I was
introduced to that subconscious mind science, I was you know,
I felt like I've changed myself and my own perspective
on things and how I approach life and performance and relationship.

(01:28:53):
And I could see that. And I still make mistakes,
and I still do plenty of mistakes, not on the
tennis court or outside in relationship. Every I'm more conscious
and more aware where it's coming from and why I
did it. And I'm going to keep on doing mistakes,
but I'll try to reduce those. And I feel like
being in control is something that we all want to

(01:29:14):
be in, Like we want to control our thoughts, we
want to control our lives, our partners. That we want to,
but it's not possible and it shouldn't be the case.
Like you can only control what you can, which is
your own process internally. And then how that comes across
what I speak to you right now and what you
think in your mind and how you hear my words
is I can't control that, you know. I can only

(01:29:38):
hope that I am emitting the right kind of energy
and vibe to you, and then we are creating something nice.
That's what I feel like. We all get trapped a lot.
Is like, no, I'm going to prove you the point
of what I was saying, and I'm going to tell
you why you are causing this in me and so forth.
So putting always a blame to someone else. And I

(01:29:58):
mean I can feel that with ten, is that I
can instantly see the mistake when I actually say it's
my coaches folder, it's my physios fold or my fitness
coaches folder. It's whoever's fold for me losing a match
or me playing this way. So I always remind myself, Hey,
take the responsibility in your hands, take the means in
your hands. You are in control of your life. Maybe

(01:30:22):
not fully, because there's always this destiny or divine purpose
of us being here and the karma from past lives
and etcetera. That's another conversation. But what you can control
focus on that. The other things is just you know,
it's in God's hands and it's in the hands of
other people and how that all interacts. But I believe

(01:30:43):
that when you're training yourself to think good thoughts and
it comes back to you, it's the law of attraction
and the law of giving and taking and it comes back.
You know, you become what you think right, and so
there's true power in that.

Speaker 2 (01:30:58):
Before we dive into the next moment, then let's hear
from our sponsors and back to our episode. No, that
you've been so kind and generous with your time. I've
got a few more questions for you. You know, I
think you've talked so much about health, self care, discipline.
I know that you have your new supplement out that
I can't wait to try as well, your hydration. It's

(01:31:19):
called Seala, which I love the meaning of. If you
can share what that means. But I love that you're
finding a way to productize your mindset like I actually am,
because I think people like myself who want to know
what is that zero point zero zero zero one percent
mindset and what are you discovering and taking And you
were just sharing it with me earlier. I was just thinking,

(01:31:40):
I'm so excited about that to try it out for
myself because I try and treat myself like an athlete
even if I'm not playing in the games you are,
because to me, I'm trying to operate at that mindset,
that level physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, And I love that.
So I guess where did that come from? Was that
this idea of you know, as you're thinking about tennis

(01:32:02):
and thinking about beyond tennis, Like, where did that come from?

Speaker 1 (01:32:05):
I was always trying to think beyond tennis, you know,
particularly well, particularly in the last I would say twelve
to fifteen years of my career my life. I mean
I because I was hearing early on from some other
not just tennis players, established tennis players who were retired
and shared their experience of post career with me, but

(01:32:28):
also other athletes and how you know, the struggles they
had mentally, and particularly the struggles that they had if
they have not prepared themselves for that transition. I believe
that in some way you cannot fully prepare yourself for
that transition mentally. Like it's going to be a sad
day for me when I leave tennis, and it's going

(01:32:49):
to be very emotional and all that. But what I'm
talking about is basically the adrenaline that also needs to
be filtered or reached somewhere. And I know that I
will play sports for the rest of my life because
I love sports and being active is essential, but also
I feel like you need a challenge. Tennis has consumed

(01:33:13):
most of my life and that's what I know how
to do best. But I have very broad interest in
a lot of different things, and the industry or the
sphere of life, which is called health, wellness and well
being is my biggest passion. And it's very broad ecosystem

(01:33:34):
or field if you want, as you know because you're
part of it. But it has been my passion for
fifteen plus years. And you know, always imagine the world
where most of the people will take care of themselves
of you know, how they hydrate, how they eat, exercise,
how they manage their sleep, just the healthier world. And

(01:33:57):
of course it's hard to change everything at the same time,
and it of course takes a lot of different time
because the planet is big and there's a lot of people.
But I think taking small steps is very valuable and
it has its effect. So hydration is something that was
always super important for me as a professional athlete, and

(01:34:20):
I noticed that people who live everyday life, but not
only then, but also athletes, don't really understand the importance
of hydration and don't really understand maybe how to fully
hydrate themselves on a cellular level. Because when we talk
about hydration, obviously the first thing that comes to your
mind is drink water. Right, We drink water. We have

(01:34:42):
to survive a day without water, so that's normal. But
then we also have all these other ingredients and vitamins
and minerals and things that we're trying to take, whether
it's through supplementation, whether it's through food. Obviously, if you
can get everything through food is the best. Brian Johnson
I saw the other day one hundred and whatever tablets

(01:35:05):
that he's taking. I mean, I don't know how he
does it. I mean amazing, but I don't think I
would be able to drink and I don't want to
drink that many tablets. I do have supplementation myself, but
I prefer trying to take everything through food. But it's
difficult because our soil is depleted. The food that we
are getting is most of the time comes from the

(01:35:25):
other remote side of the world, travels, it lost its nutrients,
you know, and it's hard. You know, we have a
polluted air, polluted water, polluted soil. All of these things,
you know, play an important role in the inflammatory processes
in our body or how we ingest certain ingredients and

(01:35:49):
substances that are necessary for optimal health. So going back
to the hydration, I think hydration is probably the easiest
step towards that healthier diet or healthier life, and it's
something that we cannot go without on a daily basis,
and something that is easy as breathing, that's something that

(01:36:12):
everybody can do. Diet changes are something that is more challenging,
I think for people. And there are hundreds of different
diets and I don't want to get into it because
everyone has their preference, but I think hydration is probably
something that we will all agree with. So since twenty
seventeen or eighteen, I've been working on this project and
I've been thinking, you know, and I didn't want to

(01:36:34):
come out. I could have come out. I've worked with
few different people and I finally then agreed to come
out on the market with It's basically a wellness brand
called Sila, and one of the first products that we
come out with is hydration, but we have magnesium. We
are working on our sleep formula, nor tropic formula, gut formula,

(01:36:58):
so we're going to have a line of different products
and I'm doing that. My partner in that is actually
my best friend, Mark Stilitano, who is also very very
He used to play tennis and we know each other
since we were teenagers, and very very passionate guy about
you know, wellness and hydration and healthy lifestyle. So I

(01:37:21):
found that we are very synergetic in our mission and
vision and he had something similar in his life that
he wanted to do, and he said, let's join forces
and do it together. So we just recently started we
very quietly, kind of as a soft launch, because I
don't want this product or this brand to be just

(01:37:42):
one of the many many out there. And when I
say that I mean that every ingredient that is in
every of the product needs to be one hundred percent
best quality that is out there. But you know, I'm
very passionate about this because it's a kind of a
continue of my passion, of my story, of my journey.

(01:38:04):
It's what I love, it's what I drink on a
daily basis, my kids, drinking, my wife, everybody. And so
I'm always looking for new ways or best supplements or
things that can improve my performance, that can improve my
performance not just on the tennis court, but also in
life for me to have more clarity, more energy, better
sleep and stuff like this. So I decided to do

(01:38:24):
something on my own because the supplements out there that
I was trying, there are some good ones, but I
was not fully satisfied. So I try to kind of
take the means in my hands and control the process
from A to Z. It's the way I am, It's
how I do things, and and so hopefully people will
like it. I don't know, you know, it's going to
be interesting journey that we're embarking on. And other than that,

(01:38:48):
I have another very interesting project it's called for Genesis
Pod that I want to get you in that pod.
It's been also six years that we're working on that
and we're launching later this year. And that that pod
is like a capsule, you know, like one of those
sleeping capsules that you have in an airport. So about
twelve thirteen years ago, I was in Dubai Airport and

(01:39:10):
I was in business class lounge and I was like,
look at me, you know, I'm so you know, lucky
to be here and to be able to have a
bed or have this you know, sleeping pod or something
like that, but you know, ninety nine percent of the people,
I mean, they're layovers, they're in transit, they're sleeping on
the floor and uncomfortable chairs and stuff. So it felt like,

(01:39:30):
how cool would it be if, you know, on the
airport we would have these pods where people will go
in and out not only to nap and sleep, but
to go in and out in shortest amount of time,
whether it's you know, eight, ten, fifteen, twenty minutes and
feel refreshed and feel re energized. They can reset their

(01:39:50):
system and recharge the batteries and go on with their day.
And by that time, I was already traveling with an
additional suitcase of gadgets of near infrared, fire, infrared pulse,
electromagnetic frequency, different plates, boards, you name it. I mean
essential oils, this that, light therapies, vibrational frequencies, sounds, everything,

(01:40:19):
everything that is out there in the market that I
find amusing and interesting. I take it, I try it,
I try to implement it. So I'm still traveling with
these gadgets, and so I said, okay, so I partner
up with my partner, Tough Keen, who is Australian and
lives in Bali, and so we connected and then he
had also some similar thoughts and then we're like, okay,
can we do this part where I would have all

(01:40:41):
these gadgets incorporated in one multisensory device where they don't
interfere with each other, but they complement each other. So
where you go in, you're like in a Faraday cager,
protected from harmful radiation of the towers, the Wi Fi,
the five g's, et cetera. You are just giving yourselves

(01:41:02):
a rest and recharging and then you know, being stimulated
with all these things. Would it be possible? And so
four or five years of R and D and we
finally created it. So it's quite an inexclusive. I would
say a product because it's you know, it's very expensive,
it's big. It's not like a hydration drink. But my

(01:41:23):
dream is to have that in every airport. It started
like that, but then, of course the corporate wellness is
a big world as well, the corporations. I mean, people
who work nine to five, nine to eight, they're staying
all days seated. You know, their posture, all these things
are affected. They don't have the ability to ground their

(01:41:44):
feet and be in the nature and stuff. It's always
this fast paced modern lifestyle. On the goal, on the goal,
give me a quick fix. I'm eating my lunch in
the car on the goal. What you know, So I understand,
you know, I'm not not judging. I understand we all
all part of that world. So that's why I kind
of wanted to create in a way, even even though

(01:42:05):
I don't like that term, a healthy quick fix to
a modern, fast paced lifestyle. Men or women that live
and don't have time and then come back home they're
super tired, exhausted, and they have kids, they have the spouse,
they have everything happening, and they're like, oh my god,
I'm sore, I'm this, I'm depleted, I'm not sleeping well,
et cetera. So it's it's quite complex, but this could

(01:42:27):
be and I hope it will. I mean, again, I'm biased,
and we've been doing I mean, hundreds or maybe even
thousands of people have done it trials and the results
are incredible. We're doing a scientific study now, a human
study in UH one two universities in the United States
with a pod, and so can't wait to see the

(01:42:49):
results of that and see how it rolls out, you know.
So I'm very passionate about it. These are some you know,
I have a few other projects that I'm very involved in,
and but I like it because it's in my alley.
You know, It's in the area of life that I'm
not only passionate about, but that I feel like I
have experience in knowledge to some extent. And of course

(01:43:14):
I surround myself with with people who are more qualified
and knowledgeable about than me in that space, and then
we develop it together, and I feel like like you
trying to make other people feel better, you know, whether
it's mentally or physically, through supplements, through this pod, through
this podcast, through talking, through you know, sharing the journey,

(01:43:35):
sharing the maybe some hacks and techniques and stuff that
they can do. You know, in the end of the day,
that's actually what drives in. I feel like it drives
you a lot, you know, because it gives the purpose
on purpose. It gives you purpose in your life. It's
not like only about yourself and what you do and
the achievements and the fame and money and everything. It's
really about how you make your mark in the world.

(01:43:58):
What's the legacy, what do you live behind, How do
people you know benefit from you? And what you say,
what you do, what you create. So that's a kind
of a driving force. You know. One of the best
psychologists that I've worked with and one of the most
impressive and intelligent people that I ever met in my life.
His name is doctor Jim Lair and he was one

(01:44:19):
of the founders of a Human Performance Institute HPI in Florida,
and we worked for a few years, and you know,
he has this obviously, one of the most important questions
is what would you like to have written on your tombstone?
And would you like, you know, people to list your

(01:44:40):
achievements or is it something else? How would you like
people to remember you? You know, but deeply think about that,
and then we would go through a process of writing
things down and really kind of deconstructing my personality in
my life, what I'm living in a given moment, and
what I how I see the future self and how
I see the future of the world, and whether I

(01:45:01):
feel like I strongly believe that I can make that impact.
So I feel this is everything that I do is
related to that source of the purpose and of the
light that is in the center of everything. Because you know,
I've also turned down many different companies in my life
that wanted me to be an ambassador because I just

(01:45:23):
feel it's very hard for me to represent and advocate
something to millions of people that I really don't believe in.
I wouldn't never drink that drink or eat that or
whatever it is. I just if it's not aligned with
my philosophy my mindset, it's not going to work. And
I've selected that journey which is for my managers and

(01:45:45):
my agents, not the ideal one. But at the same time,
I'm calm in my heart in my mind because i
know that I'm doing something that is right.

Speaker 2 (01:45:54):
I love that and I'm so excited to try it,
and I'm grateful that you've said that that authenticity is
there because I personally am someone who wants to try
new things and wants to know what the best you're using,
especially when you're creating it yourself. You're not putting your
name to it. It's not something you know, it's you're
actually saying, no, this is what I use, this is

(01:46:15):
what I'm doing. I think that's important. So, Novak, we
end every interview with the final five. These have to
be answered in one word to one sentence maximum, okay,
and then I may ask you to go over the
Novak Djokovitz. The is your final five. The first is
what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:46:36):
Live the life in the present moment, learn from the past,
live in the present, and work for the future.

Speaker 2 (01:46:44):
What is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:46:49):
The worst device If someone does good to you, do
ten times better to them. But if someone does bed
to you, do ten times worse to them.

Speaker 2 (01:47:02):
Oh, that second part is not good advice exactly. That
first part beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:47:06):
As yeah, but the second the first part is connected
to the second one. That's why I said it. But yeah,
second one I don't like.

Speaker 2 (01:47:13):
Yeah, I think it's almost like if someone does good
to you, do ten times better to them, and if
someone is bad to you, do ten times less to them.
Like just you know, that would be good advice. But
that's a good answer. I've never heard that. Yeah, that's
really really good. What's the power of having had such
a beautiful relationship with your partner, your wife, Yelena. I

(01:47:34):
can't do an interview without giving her credit and talking
about her. Sure, I feel like a good man needs
a good woman. And thanks such a big important part
of all of our lives.

Speaker 1 (01:47:45):
Yes, yes, thank you for asking me about my wife.
And you know, we've been together since my age eighteen,
she was nineteen, so very long time we dated. We
went through different stages in different phases, and basically she's
the only like very serious relationship that I've ever had.
And yeah, she is my rock. She's someone that has

(01:48:08):
seen the worst and the best sides of me. She
has seen my evolution, she has challenged me on every level.
We have grown together and we have two beautiful children,
and we still keep on growing and evolving. We have challenges,
as I guess every couple has, but I think we
have an amazing base and foundation and we always when

(01:48:33):
we have challenging times in relationship, we revert to that
and we address, you know, why we are together, who
we are as people, and how we've grown, and the
future that we see is the future that we see together,
and so whatever we try to do, we try to
do together. So all of the projects that I told

(01:48:54):
you about and everything, she's been involved, and it's very
important for me to always hear her thoughts, her feedback,
and because she's probably the only one in my life
other than my brothers or my one or two friends,
that is able to tell me things that I maybe

(01:49:16):
don't want to hear and really challenge my ideas, challenge
my thoughts, challenge my decisions, and oftentimes her instinct or
intuition was correct and mine wasn't. I have to say that.
But now jokes aside. She has been an incredible partner

(01:49:36):
in this whole journey, professionally, privately, emotionally, romantically, as a
parent as well. So I still play at this level
because also of the support that she's giving to our
family back home, and I remind myself of that a lot.
You know, I've grown up with two younger brothers in

(01:49:57):
a very small apartment, and I've seen what my mother
you know, did, and what she does for a family
and what women do to keep families together and intact
and bring this incredibly powerful energy to our life and
to that gives us wings and that gives us a

(01:50:19):
springboard for everything that we're doing outside of home. It's
just something that one will never comprehend unless one experience
is that family life. So we've been through all these
different journeys together as you know, kids, teenagers, and you know,
getting more serious and relationship and her being my fiance

(01:50:41):
and then getting married and then having two kids. So yeah,
it's hard to express everything that I feel as kind
of love and gratitude towards her and what she means
to me in my life.

Speaker 2 (01:50:52):
Yeah, I feel like when I've met her or interacted
with her, she's always just operating such a high frequency
and a high vibrations, that natural energy, and it's good
for I feel like that about my wife, and I
feel like it's good to have someone in your life
who's that close to you that can call you out
and write, check on you, and you know, realign you,
and I know I value that deeply, and my wife

(01:51:14):
does the same for me. Question four is two as well,
what was your worst day on court? And what was
your best day on court?

Speaker 1 (01:51:22):
I would say winning a gold medal for my country
in Olympics in Paris twenty twenty four would be the
best moment, even better, and it surpasses me winning Wimbledon
for a first time or winning they discover my country
and stuff, and I've been incredibly fortunate to experience some
of the I mean, the greatest achievements in our sport.

(01:51:43):
But that one just because I was thirty seven at
a time, I mean thirty seven years old and maybe
my last shot at the real shot at the gold medal,
and everything with how it happened and how it unfolded,
it is just you know, that's the and the worst
would be I would say. Actually also Olympics when I

(01:52:07):
was when I lost the Olympic Games in Rio Dejanira
in twenty sixteen, I was, yeah, struggling a little bit
with this injury of the wrist and didn't know if
I'm going to play or not. I played. I lost
to the Potro's dear friend and went on to win
a silver medal for his country. I lost in first

(01:52:30):
round in a tight two setter in two tiebreaks, and
it was super emotional because Olympics, playing for my country,
being supported by the whole stadium, being probably at the
peak of my career overall, being on a run and
on the role winning four slams. I held all four

(01:52:53):
slams at that point, I was just the most dominant
I've ever was in my career. Practicing several days, I
was like, I cannot miss a ball, like this is
my time. There's no chance anybody beats me here. And
then one day or two days before the match, I
start to feel something in the wrist, start to doubt myself.

(01:53:16):
I started a question whether I should go out or not.
I have a very tough draw. I draw the apotrow
is very tough draw restaurant, and I lose close match.
You know, as I said, he goes on to win
silver medal. But I that was the moment where I
just felt like my whole world collapsed. Yeah, very very tough.
So it's interesting now that you ask me, because I

(01:53:38):
never thought about it. But best moment in the worst
moment happened in Olympic Games. Because Olympic Games happen every
four years, they're so rare and all the other tournaments
you have a chance every year to win, but here,
you know, every four years, so you got to be
at your top to be able to, you know, get

(01:53:59):
a medal.

Speaker 2 (01:54:00):
That's cool, that's good, good memories, and I'm glad you
got the goal last year. Yeah, I appreciated toughest opponent
mentally and toughest opponent physically.

Speaker 1 (01:54:09):
Toughest opponent mentally by far myself. That's a good answer
by far. And the toughest opponent physically Nadal, Yeah, for sure.
I mean the battles with him were just grueling. The
longest Grand Slam finals in history in the finals of

(01:54:32):
twenty twelve Australian Open, five hours and fifty three minutes.
I think it was so almost six hours of grueling battle.
I won that match in the fifth set, seven five
or seven six. It was just I remember the closing
ceremony after that, we were standing and listening to the
sponsors speeches and stuff, and we at one point we

(01:54:55):
both simultaneously bent down and hell our knees and I
could see his legs are shaking, My legs are shaking,
and then I and then someone saw that and brought
us two chairs and brought us water and we had
to sit down and sit for the rest of the
ceremony because we were just I went into the locker
room and took out my shoes and I had blood

(01:55:18):
on all over the socks and both bald socks, and
I didn't feel it. Obviously, in this adrenaline rush on
the court, you just go through the pain, You go
through everything, and then you like, once you cool off
and your muscles are cold and everything, it's just like
devastating feeling you can't walk, but you know, obviously more
satisfying when you win such battle. But I had incredible

(01:55:41):
matches against Nadal clay court matches. I mean, clay's the
slowest surface and most physically in our sport, and playing
him on clay in rolling Garris is probably the top
challenge you can have in the history of our sport
because he, you know, he was getting to every ball,
and I was also very very good defender and always

(01:56:01):
and you know, very physically fit. So we would like
push each other to the very limit physically and mentally.
You know. It was at times almost like an out
of body experience for both of us, where we would
just everything would flow. We would play incredible points that
would last so long exchanges and you know, when you
finish a match, then you realize, oh my god, it's

(01:56:22):
almost like you were not playing it. It was like
something took over and just all your talents, the skill,
everything was on a scale or on the platform that
we created. It's like almost like an artist where he
goes into his on a canvas, into his zone and

(01:56:42):
just starts drawing some beautiful That's how it felt, you know,
many times when I played him, and now when I
talk about it and reflect, it gives me, you know,
a great sense of pride and satisfaction that I've had
the rivalry that I had with him, and that you know,
I feel like not only we both made history of

(01:57:02):
the sport, but we both made each other better. And
I feel like we brought so many incredible emotions to
people who were watching us play.

Speaker 2 (01:57:11):
Yeah, you can still watch those I love TikTok now
because you've got the highlights. Yeah yeah, you can just
watch those highlights right ages, like all the best points,
and of course people compile it and you just think, wow,
it's it is its poetry in motion to just watch
two eyes play together. Fifth and final question, We asked
this every guest who's ever been on the show. Not

(01:57:32):
in the beginning though, so these all these rituals came
after it. If you could create one law that everyone
in the world had to follow, what would It be?

Speaker 1 (01:57:41):
Hard to pick one thing, but I would probably create
a law without punish greatly someone who just destroys our planet,
throws trash in the nature or in the water, or
you know, disrespects our mother nature and and we live on.

(01:58:02):
Maybe it would be a law where you would have
to say hello to every person that walks by, just
trying to be more kind, more gracious, a little bit
more compassionate. We need a little bit more empathy and
compassion in this planet because when we are as people
closer to each other and we are less divided, I

(01:58:26):
feel like then, as a positive consequence of that, we
will take care of the planet we're living on. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:58:32):
Well, Novak as always inspired to see what you do,
continue to do in tennis, what you'll do beyond tennis.
And last time we covered your story of how you
became and who you were and where you started. And
I feel like today we've added another beautiful chapter onto
that growth. And I'm so grateful to you for showing

(01:58:55):
up as you do always, for living as intentionally as
you always do. I still remember we finished the last interview,
and even today my team was saying it after the
interview last time, you spent an hour talking to my
team at that time, and even today when you were
coming in and it was just, oh my god, he's
so nice, he's so kind. It's just it's amazing to
see someone who's truly, truly, truly the go the sport

(01:59:18):
to be that humble, grounded kind at all times with everyone.
It's truly admirable and appreciate and all the truly best
people have it.

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
So, you know, thank you j for having me, and
thank you for spending you know, two hours with me
and I you know, we time flew by. I mean
it's incredible and it's I feel like the connection and
the energy was it was amazing, as it always is
with you, and I hope that for the next chapter
we won't need to wait another five years.

Speaker 2 (01:59:48):
I agree, let's let's probably we need to.

Speaker 1 (01:59:50):
We need to. We promise each other, we gotta we
gotta meet more frequent because I think we're both you know,
expanding and evolving and doing incredible things in our own fields,
and so many interesting things to talk about and to share.
So for sure, I love to be your guest a
little bit more frequently and not wait for a long time.

(02:00:12):
But thank you for having me, and thank you allowing
me to share my story.

Speaker 2 (02:00:15):
Thank you man. Anyone who's been listening and watching, let
me and Novak know. Tag us on Instagram, on TikTok,
let us know what's resonating with you, what's connecting with you.
If there was a message, a game, a point, something
that Novak shared with you that is going to stay
with you for some time, let us know. I love
seeing what has an impact on you. That's the goal
of these conversations. I want to see what shifts you make,

(02:00:38):
the habits you change, and the new goals that you
achieve because of this conversation. The big thank you to
Novak again, and we'll see on the next one. If
you love this episode, you'll love my interview with Kobe
Bryant on how to be strategic and obsessive to find
your purpose.

Speaker 1 (02:00:54):
Our children have become less imaginative about how to problem
solve in parents and coaches have become more directive and
trying to tell them how to behave versus teaching them
how to behave.

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Jay Shetty

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