Quinlan Walther: Stop Chasing Love Just Because You’re Lonely! (Do THIS to Attract the RIGHT Relationship)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We only obsess over people who aren't fully available to us.
The obsession can be mistaken for a spark, where there's
something we're projecting onto someone that is so full on
it feels like an obsession.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Hey, everyone, welcome back to On Purpose. I'm your host,
Jay Shetty, and I'm so excited to introduce you to
someone that I'm a huge fan of.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
I've been following her.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
For a couple of years now, loving all of her content,
engage with it regularly and consistently. And then when I
was on tour this year, I actually had the opportunity
to meet her, and now we finally have her in
the On Purpose studio. I'm speaking about Quinlan Walfa, a
writer and relationship coach transforming the way millions of people
think about love. Quinlan's viral videos on dating, self trust,

(00:45):
and connection have reached millions of people worldwide. If you
don't follow her already, make sure you do after this conversation.
Quinlan is helping people break unhealthy patterns, build deeper connections,
and create relationships that feel safe, intentional, and fulfilling. Please
welcome to On Purpose, Quinlan Walther Or q Q. I'm

(01:07):
so glad to have you.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Here, Jay, It's so good to see you. Thank you
for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Of course, I am so excited to dive in. I
have so many things to talk to you about. I
know our audience is going to absolutely love this conversation
because they're constantly trying to figure out love and relationships
and dating. I feel like that's on we all exactly.
I feel like it's the need of the hour, which
is such a beautiful thing as well. And the first
question I wanted to ask you is what's the difference

(01:32):
between wanting a relationship and being ready for a relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:37):
One of my favorite ways to frame this, which I
think we cannot really too, is you shouldn't go grocery
shopping when you're starving. We don't tend to make the
best choices. We grab the first thing we see. We
grab all the things that we want that look exciting, right, ooh,
that'll taste so good. I want this, I want that,
not necessarily what we need, and that, in my opinion,
applies to dating and relationships as well. When you go

(01:58):
out into the world, you start dating, you're looking for
a relationship. You want to have a pretty solid understanding
of what it is that you're looking for. You want
to have a pretty solid understanding of how you love yourself,
how you show up for yourself, of the life you
want to create for yourself, the relationship that would be
an added bonus to that life that you want to create.
Rather than feel like you're trying to fill a void,

(02:21):
you end up seeking connections from a place of desperation
that can't be fulfilling because it's essentially pouring into a
bottomless pit of a trying to fill this bottomless void. So,
in my opinion, asking yourself those questions first, really spending
time understanding who you are, what you want, how you
can love yourself, how you can support yourself, how you

(02:41):
can commit to building a life you like, and the
relationship that could be a bonus. I also want to
add the caveat that it's not as if you have
to go hide away, do all of those things and
then come out and find the relationship. It can happen
at pretty much the same time with the focus being
on understanding all the things I just said, who you are,
what you want, et cetera, and not go looking for

(03:04):
love when you are metaphorically starving.

Speaker 3 (03:07):
I love that truth.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Bum that's that's huge already, the idea that we're constantly
looking for love when we're starving, rather than being really
really clear and being in a healthy sense of hunger,
Like you have an appetite, but you're not starving, because
we all know that when you're starving, you're so spawn.
I think about all I was. I was literally going

(03:29):
through all the bad decisions I've made at.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
The grocery store, what.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
I eat when I'm starving. I will pull up at
a gas station, I will buy two bags of chips.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Yep. Yeah, totally like everything that.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
You don't want to be having, and then on the
way home, you're regretting it.

Speaker 1 (03:44):
And you love it while you're eating it the best
while it's there, and it's, oh, this is everything that
I wanted. And then ten minutes later, you're probably hungry again.
You're probably crashed out from the sugar high, you need
a nap, and you feel even more exhausted and still
hungry after you're done. I feel like that just directly
applies to the kind of relationships, the kind of connections
that we choose when we're acting from that place of starvation, desperation, emptiness.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Yeah, and the hard part about that is that it's
so real today to feel that way, to feel lonely,
to feel desperate, to feel not chosen. What do we
do with all those emotions then, because we're used to
running for the quick solve, because those emotions are so
heavy and hard to sit in. What do you do
with all those emotions when you're not getting to just

(04:33):
curb your craving by getting some fast food or fast love.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
Build self trust. Self trust is imperative for liking who
you are, understanding who you are, making decisions that align
with who you really want to be, and of course
that pays off in our relationships. There are four s's
when it comes to self trust, in my opinion. First
one is curiosity. Are you curious about who you are,

(04:59):
why you do what you do, the feelings that you feel,
your motives and intentions behind the decisions that you make.
What you want out of life? Is there curiosity? You
can't trust yourself if you don't know yourself, and from
curiosity can come comprehension, So it's really important that you
lead with curiosity. The second one is capacity, So that's
emotional flexibility, emotional stability. Like you just asked, what do

(05:23):
we do with these big emotions, you build the capacity
to stay anchored in who you are even when you
feel really sad, even when you feel really helpless or
hopeless or overwhelmed, angry, frustrated. Can you find an anchor
in yourself that you can support yourself through all of
those emotions. That's capacity. The third one is compassion, having

(05:45):
humanity for who you are. Having an understanding that you
are a flawed human who makes some poor decisions sometimes
right and being able to meet yourself with a softness,
with a warmth is imperative, like it absolutely paramount. And
we're talking a lot about relationships here today. If you
aren't compassionate with yourself, you'll be far less likely to

(06:06):
be compassionate with the people around you and your significant
other and such. The changes we want to make don't
typically happen from a place of rigidity, blame, shame, judgment.
They happen from a place of compassion and support and love.
And then, finally, the fourth one is commitment. The fourth
sea is commitment, your commitment, your devotion to being who

(06:27):
you want to be, making decisions that really align with that,
and building a life that feels so fulfilling so good
from within. There's no way around it. You can have
the first three. If you don't have the commitment to
bring who you want to be, to fruition to building
that life, things go astray. So you need that fourth
one as well.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
I like the forces, thank yeah, And they feel like
they take a lot of time. I can't imagine doing
that in a month or three months. And like you said,
I think I think our idea around doing work before dating,
and you alluded to this in a healthy sense, we
kind of at one point started to believe we had
to be complete before we met someone. And as someone

(07:07):
I've been married now for nine years and with my
wife for twelve, I thought I knew how I was
when we met and that was a good foundation. But
I have discovered so much more about myself and grown
so much more in the last twelve years than what
I thought. And so this idea that we have to
be fully formed, fully complete, fully perfect before we meet
someone doesn't really add up.

Speaker 1 (07:28):
Uh A. I would even say any relationship will change
you some for the better. Somethn't any change happening in
the relationship, you probably aren't actually showing up to it.
And more to your point when you enter a healthy, safe,
loving relationship, it's going to reflect back to you the

(07:49):
parts of you that you haven't yet seen worked on,
grown through, grown out of, grown around. But I believe
you have to be able to discern what is versus
what is judgment or a lack of acceptance or an
opportunity for growth anyway, because Roddy could come to you

(08:09):
and say, Jay, I'm really noticing that you haven't been
present with me and I miss you. You know, I
want more time with you. If you don't have the
awareness that that's probably coming from a place of love,
from a desire to improve your relationship. If you don't
have a growth mindset, you'll get defensive, you'll snap back,
you won't listen, and you'll drive a wedge even further

(08:31):
between the two of you. So I think you need
to practice some of those fources so that you have
the awareness of what growth feels like, what it's like
to meet yourself, so that when you're in a relationship
that is asking you to grow more, there's already a
familiarity there. I do think that's important.

Speaker 3 (08:49):
It's so important.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
But what's so interesting about your saying what you're saying
and I'm so glad you've gone in that direction. Is
you're saying, relationships take growth and out almost for growth,
but we don't get into them wanting that. We get
into them wanting pleasure or joy or relief or companionship.

(09:11):
And what you just said is, well, no, it's about growth.
Talk to me about that difference between our expectation and
why you think relationships are actually about growth.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
As you grow, as you know yourself, like yourself, all
the things we talked about, you don't need as much
from the relationship itself. You aren't expecting the person that
you're with to be a validation machine to meet you
in every way, in every moment, all the time, so
perfectly you can show up and actually allow the other

(09:47):
person to meet you in this almost third entity, there's you,
the other person, and then the relationship that you create together,
and that means I get to bring my insecurities, you
get to bring your insecurities. I get to bring my
good stuff, you your goods, right, and we meet each
other there. And it's the point of a relationship is
just to relate to another person, right, to walk alongside them,

(10:09):
to be a source of love, encouragement, enthusiasm and to
grow individually in your own right. But I agree with
you that I think one of the biggest problems today
with people or for people who haven't really taken the
time to try and meet themselves, it is what can
I get? What can I get? I'm not getting enough.
I need to get more. This isn't what I wanted,

(10:31):
with very little consideration for the other person in this
third entity that is the relationship.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
It's something that I'm really grappling with as we're talking
about it to try and help people shift their perspective,
because we're not saying that it's growth that is growth
that you that brings you pain or stress, or we're
saying it's growth that inspires you to become better and
be better. And it may take you a second to

(10:59):
make it in seaspiring for each other. So in the
start it may rub you. So for example, as you said,
when Rady comes up to me at the beginning and says, hey,
I need you to do this or that my ego
is quite high, and I go, well, why don't you
do it for yourself? And then it drives a wedge
between us, and then over time you respect and love
so much about this person that you start to go, well,

(11:19):
wait a minute, maybe they're saying it from the right place.
Now I've grown to have the ability to recognize that
everything she says is from a place of love, and
now maybe I'll be able to receive it. And the
third time she says it, I'm almost noticing I've been
not present.

Speaker 3 (11:32):
Myself, and I can say, hey, I haven't.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Been present, and now we're not trying to live in
a world where I am always fully present, because that's
never going to happen. That's not realistic. But it goes
from her saying it and me being triggered to her
saying it and me being aware, and then me noticing
it even before she says it, so that I'm actually
able to explain why I may not be present. Sometimes

(11:54):
I'll say to rather, Hey, you know what, the next
week's really.

Speaker 3 (11:56):
Intense for me.

Speaker 2 (11:58):
I think I'm just going to be a bit less
around because I've got some things to focus on and
I just want you to know it's got nothing to
do with you, or I've just got a lot on
right now. And I find that that's really helpful for
a relationship.

Speaker 1 (12:09):
And that's emotional safety. Choosing a partner and building a
relationship that is based in trust, emotional safety, your ability
to see here Roddy's take, and trust that she's coming
from a loving place, not from a critical place, not
from a defensive place. That requires emotional stability, that requires

(12:32):
emotional safety. So when you choose a partner, look at
this in early dating is what is the character of
the person that you're seeing. How do they treat their friends,
how do they treat their family? Are they a person
of integrity? Are they typically kind and well intentioned? Because
that's going to bloom into a relationship with that same character.
Right where someone gives you feedback, This person that you're

(12:54):
building a relationship with, gives you feedback. Can you trust
that they're well intentioned in their feedback, that what they're
asking for or what they're reflecting back to you is
for the greater good of your connection, right or of
simply a request to love them better, to love them
in the way that they want to be loved. And
assuming you want to be a person who does that,

(13:15):
assuming you want to be a person who participates in
the emotional safety and the stability, then you're able to
hear that underneath the request or the feedback, et cetera,
rather than get defensive. But it requires trust and it
requires emotional safety.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
Absolutely, yeah, And how do you know the difference between
someone's request being inherently good versus unreasonable? Because I imagine
when people are dating, they may hear quite often, Hey,
I don't think you're present, or you missed my friend's birthday,
or you miss this, you miss that, and you almost
feel like they're not hearing you. How do you make

(13:51):
sense or decipher between someone's feedback being inherently good and
for the relationship versus just being an unreasonable request.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
If there's too much black and white thinking. If someone
comes to you and says, you skipped my friend's birthday,
you didn't remember that important meeting that I had last week,
and you forgot to take out the trash, you must
not love me, you don't care about this relationship, and
I won't stand for it. I won't have it. That's unreasonable,
that's ego speaking, that's an insecurity. That's not kind, that's

(14:23):
not a loving way to communicate or to think. If
someone can come to you and hold the nuance, there
can see the color. Hey, you've been really stressed, right,
you had a really busy week. You forgot about my meeting,
you missed my friend's birthday, you forgot to do that,
You forgot to take out the trash like you said
that you would. I know you've been busy. Can I
help support you in some way? And is there any

(14:45):
way that you can make the event next week with
me be really important?

Speaker 3 (14:49):
Right?

Speaker 1 (14:50):
So it's being able to hold Hey, this hurts.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Hey.

Speaker 1 (14:53):
I see where you're coming from. You're a human with
finite capacity and I don't expect you to be a
superhero here, and the relationship is important, right, There's so
much color in there. So I think the straightforward answer
to your question is if it's black and white, if
it's demanding, and if it really only considers one perspective,

(15:14):
one side, then you might want to consider a different approach.

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, and that's really great awareness for ourselves as well,
because we don't want everyone else to communicate with us
in an emotionally intelligent way. But then when it comes
to us sharing our needs, and it's so interesting when
you were saying that, it resonates so deeply. It makes
so much sense, And then I go, where do people
even learn all of this?

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Right?

Speaker 2 (15:37):
Like, we're doing this podcast so that people can learn
and grow. But I'm listening to you going, I don't
know anyone who naturally communicates that way because they didn't
see that in their home. They didn't have that through
friends or family. They didn't have any training, of course.
And so we all do the other thing, which is

(15:58):
you always choose yourself. You never show up for me,
you don't love me. We all do that version. And
so sometimes you're in a relationship with someone and you
see that, but then you're like, but.

Speaker 3 (16:08):
I've been with everyone else and they you know, they're
worse than you. So I guess this is it.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
You hear all the time. Love is consideration, right, Love
is an action. Love is consideration, yes, but not consideration
beyond someone's capacity. Right. People can only meet you as
deeply as they've met themselves. They can only meet you
given whatever whatever emotional resources they have available to them

(16:35):
at any given time. And where we get stuck is
expecting someone to anticipate and meet our needs all the time, uncommunicated,
and then there's this devastating disappointment when they don't, when
they don't show up the way that we want them to.
That's not a lack of love, that's dependency. That's a
parent child dynamic. Not having to ask, having all your

(16:58):
needs tended to without it, you know, any forewarning or insight.
That's not an adult adult partnership. So you have to
consider the kind of relationship you want to build and
the partner you want to be is the other half
of that, because I'm assuming it's someone who is patient,
who is willing to see the limited resources that someone

(17:19):
has available at some time, can tolerate a certain amount
of disappointment when you aren't met in the ways that
you want to be met someone who's loving and warm
in their communication and their understanding. When you know you
want to be those things, then you can start practicing.
Even if it wasn't shown to you. You can take
stock of where you aren't showing up in those ways

(17:40):
where you can be a little bit better at showing
up in those ways. But I really really think it
starts with accountability. First, take a look at your side
of the street. When you've taken a look at your
side of the street, if you're in a relationship, then
bring it to a conversation, right like, Hey, let's co
create this thing together. How can we do this together.
I think that's the way I feel.

Speaker 2 (18:18):
So many people right now, I'm sure you hear it
all the time are burnt out and exhausted with dating.

Speaker 3 (18:24):
They're just tired of dating.

Speaker 2 (18:26):
And they've either developed mindsets like there's no good men left,
all the good men are taken. Oh you know, well,
she's not quite right. Whatever it may be right, everyone
has their version. But people are exhausted with dating. We
talked about what happens when you got there starving? What
do you do when you feel exhausted?

Speaker 1 (18:46):
No, you have two options. Number one, you can stop.
You cannot date. That's an option. Take a breather. It
doesn't have to be a full time job. It doesn't
have to feel like a full time job. It's good
to focus on other things. Or you can shift your expectations.
Not needing to walk into every first date as if

(19:07):
you're interviewing for your future spouse, for the position of
your future spouse, like such high stake, such high pressure.
Can you go in and try to have fun? You know?
Can you change the energy that you want to bring
to the room where you're just meeting someone new. You're
gonna go grab some dinner, You're gonna go grab coffee,
you're gonna go grab drinks, whatever it is. Can I

(19:28):
enjoy myself? Can I have fun with it? And deciding
the energy you want to bring to the function typically
allows you to enjoy the function more rather than feeling like, Okay,
here we go again. Another disappointment, you know, another let down,
another waste of time. Don't do anything with that mentality,
with that energy, your attitude, so you can either stop

(19:51):
or shift your energy, shift your perspective.

Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
I was being to a friend the other day and
she was saying, she goes. She said to me, I
just wish men realized how long it takes a gout
get ready. And she was like I got ready. She
was like I looked real cute. And she was like,
he didn't say anything like this guy that you're on
the first date with, he said. She didn't say I
looked lovely. He didn't say it was nice to see me.

(20:14):
He didn't say it was lovely. He was just like,
I didn't feel like hem. Yeah, and she was so
let down, and she was just like, I really put
effort into how I, you know, got ready. I was
excited about it, and it just felt like it wasn't
just that he didn't notice her visually was she was
like the conversation didn't go either. But I can imagine
that that kind of feeling repetitively gets tiring. But at

(20:38):
the same time, you're so right that it gets tiring
when there's really high stakes on it every time and
it being perfect or being the one or being the moment.
It's almost like it's almost like you made it. You
made it harder for yourself by going out wanting him
to be the night. Yes, whereas if you'd just gone out,

(21:01):
and even if you did put in all that f
and everything, but you like that about yourself.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
And if you had fun.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
Right.

Speaker 1 (21:06):
I'm a girl. I love getting ready. I love my
two hour long process of getting ready for an event.
And you know, the music's playing, the vibe is good,
that's fun. I enjoy that. I enjoy that, so I
do it more. I do it when I want to.
It's a process that I want to engage in. I
also think i'd like to start a petition to bring

(21:26):
back flirting in general. I think we've lost the art
of flirting, because flirting is fun and not flirting that
has to lead to anything, not you find someone attractive,
there's a little bit of chemistry. You share a five
minute conversation. It's flirting and it's fun and it can
end there. It can end there you show up to
a first date. Can I tap into that, you know,

(21:48):
the back and forth, the banter, the fun, the chemistry
with no strings attached, just for the sake of connection
and fun. Yeah, I don't know how we'll start that.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
You're gonna figure outing bring back.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
For Yeah, I wonder.

Speaker 2 (22:05):
I feel like it's disappeared, mostly because people aren't used
to speaking in person in the time that things are flatty,
so most of the flatting happens over a message, and
then by the time you get in front of each
other you have to have a real conversation, which is
kind of like a hard shift to go from flating
on the phone to you know, through text, to them
being interesting in person.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (22:24):
So absolutely do you do you believe the spark is real?

Speaker 3 (22:28):
And does it matter?

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Absolutely? Spark is real and it matters, but it changes
and it fades and it grows in other in other instances.
I think you need to feel an immediate attraction to
someone that you are romantically interested in. That doesn't mean
you are flooded, overwhelmed, like hot and sweaty, you can't

(22:52):
can't catch your breath. You're doesn't have to be that,
but you do need to think. I'd like to be
a little closer to them, my chair a little bit clearer.
I have to figure out a way to talk to them,
you know. But that's that's not to say that connection
and intimacy and attraction can't grow over time. They absolutely do,
especially for women, especially for women. But you you should

(23:15):
find the person that you're dating attractive and there should
be a spark of Yes, I want to be physically
closer to them, but I also want to know more
about them. There's some magic here, there's some some something
something to work with. I think there has to be.
But as you get to know a person, as the
novelty wears off, that spark will change. And that's okay.

(23:38):
I don't think we need to discount anyone if there
isn't some immediate firework, and we should prepare for that
spark to change if you plan on starting a long
term relationship.

Speaker 2 (23:48):
Yeah, when when can the spark mislead us? How does
it mislead us?

Speaker 1 (23:52):
When it feels like you're on a roller coaster. When
you find yourself pining for someone, there's a I like
to say say, we only obsess over people who aren't
fully available to us, and that spark can really be mistaken,
or the obsession can be mistaken for a spark, where
there's something we're projecting onto someone that is so full

(24:15):
on it feels like an obsession, and there's this gap
between who they are and who they could be, the
relationship that you could have and the relationship that you
actually have, and that gap in between is a reflection
of who you would get to be and how you
would get to feel if the fantasy became a reality,

(24:36):
and that can feel like a spark, can feel like
a deep, overwhelming obsession. Anyone who's been through this knows
how all consuming it can be. But when we're projecting
a fantasy onto someone, that spark can take us away
into a whole other world.

Speaker 2 (24:53):
Yeah, I fully agree. And it's so hard because when
you're doing that, you don't even know you're doing it.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
No, typically not at first. If you experience it enough times,
because it'll be a pattern, it's probably happened. If it's
happened once, it'll probably happen again unless you catch it.
Because you shouldn't feel like you're falling off a cliff.
You shouldn't feel like a free fall of adrenaline and anxiety.

(25:22):
You should be excited to see someone, excited to be
around them, to get to know them. But it should
not feel like the ground falls from underneath you when
you're with them or not near them, or uncertain about
what's going to happen.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
What's the difference between chemistry and compatibility and what's more
important over time?

Speaker 1 (25:43):
I think compatibility in terms of shared values and visions
of the future people optimistic compatibility for similarity in all aspects. Right,
I need to find someone who likes the same movies
I like, listen to the same music, prefers to eat
all the same foods that I do, who goes to
sleep with the same type. You don't need an identical
copy of you. In fact, that would probably drive you crazy.

(26:06):
What I think compatibility really boils down to, in a
more important sense, is how do you value your time, attention,
and energy when it comes to the most important things
in your life. If you are someone who values family,
you want children one day, you want to be married,
you want a long term partnership with love, honesty, trust,

(26:27):
all those things. You need to find someone who values family, kids,
being married, prioritizing the family above just their own innate desires. Right,
Those values have to align otherwise you're headed for a disaster.
Same thing with visions of the future. If you start

(26:48):
dating someone who wants to live out of a van
and travel around the country and wants to kind of
have this nomadic life, and you want to live two
blocks away from your parents, you know, and Iowa and forever,
and that's home for you. I love that for both
of you. You're probably not meant to be together. That'll
be a really contentious relationship. I like to say, don't

(27:11):
order what's not on the menu when you meet someone.
If they say work is their most important priority, that's
their top value. Don't get into a relationship expecting to
change that about someone. It's not fair to them, it's
not fair to you. That's compatibility. Chemistry, in my opinion,
boils down to the magic that you feel just being

(27:37):
around someone. Yeah, it's almost palpable. There's whether that's a
quiet intimacy, like a soft intimacy, you're pulled towards each other,
whether it's banter and wit have a similar sense of humor.
Whether it is physical attraction, you just want to jump
their bones and you can't help but kiss them and
all all the things that to me is chemistry, and

(28:00):
you want you want that, But chemistry won't build the
long term relationship, the long term partnership that some people want,
not everyone, some people don't.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
But I loved your distinction between compatibility and similarity because
I think that's to me, that's the real hurdle for people,
because I talk about this where me and my wife
are just completely the opposite people in terms of we
don't have a lot in common when it comes to

(28:33):
likes and dislikes and things like that, but from a
values and vision point of view, we respect and we
don't even have directly the same values and vision, but
we respect each other so much that it allows for
a healthy relationship. So my purpose, my work, is my
number one priority, and my wife's is her family. But
I love when she spends time with her family, and

(28:54):
she loves seeing me pursue my purpose, and therefore there
isn't conflict, whereas if she said, Jay, you have to
give up for your purpose to be with my family
or if I said, well, you've got to give up
your family to spend time with my purpose, that wouldn't
work for us. And I find that to be a
really common thing I hear from people where the biggest
mistake you can make in a relationship is one of

(29:16):
you wants the other person to change for them and
the other person doesn't want you to change at all.
And the truth is you're both going to change, but
not in the ways the other person wants you to.
You're just going to become who you are going to become.
And it's so interesting to me that I meet so
many people who almost want their partner to play a

(29:37):
very specific role in their life, not realizing that that
human is evolving, growing and shifting themselves and is unlikely
to do that.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
There's a real opportunity to see beyond ourselves if we
find that dynamic at play where I need them to
show up in this way they need to be just so,
that's black and white thinking, right. It's limiting to you,
it's limiting to the other person, and it's limiting to
the relationship. That's the and that's hard to accept because

(30:08):
if you're outsourcing all of your needs, desires, and wants
onto another person, you're going to be disappointed. And if
you expect to be met in all the ways you
want to be met all the time, you're going to
be disappointed. There has to be a bit of accountability there,
where am I not taking care of myself? Where am
I not pursuing what I really want to spend my time, attention,

(30:31):
and energy on. That's there's probably a bit of that
that's lacking, because if you expect someone else to do
it for you to change in all the ways you want,
that's a self centered view, and you can at the
very least consider how important is everything that I'm asking
for right now? Could I live without this and still

(30:53):
be okay and still be happy. Maybe it's a season.
Maybe it's just a season. People think love is supposed
to carry them through decades and decades of relationship, just love,
just the feeling that it should be peaceful and RESTful
all the time. Sometimes it's work. Some seasons are work
where hey, I really want this and they say I

(31:16):
really don't, and your top value is your commitment to
each other, then you're going to figure it out and
that's probably going to be a stormy season. But no
one really likes hearing that because it means we have
to tolerate some disappointment and take some accountability, which doesn't
always feel very good.

Speaker 3 (31:30):
Is love enough.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Love the feeling or love the action? You tell me,
Love the action is because love as an action is willingness,
willingness to find the color, the nuance, the balance, willingness
to learn to love someone how they want to be loved,

(31:53):
willingness to show up and be loving when you feel
the least loving. You know, people say I would die
for my partner. I love them more than anything in
this world. I would literally lay down and die for them. Okay,
but would you put your phone down when they're telling
you about your day? Do you take their hand when

(32:13):
you're walking down the sidewalk with them? Do you notice
when they come home from work and their mood is
a little off. Do you take the time to stop
and ask them about it, to remember the little things
that they tell you to care. That's love, that's love
as an action. That's what keeps connection. Love is a
feeling will be fleeting if we don't follow it, follow

(32:34):
it through, follow it up with action.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
So there is a difference between love the feeling and
love the.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Action, I think, so do you.

Speaker 3 (32:41):
Yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
No, I never thought about it like that. I think
love the action requires so much more emotional intelligence and
maturity than love the feeling. I think I was in
love when I was sixteen.

Speaker 1 (32:55):
All the time, all the time, all the time.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
And I did not back that up with actions. I think,
going back to the piece about people changing, I think
people change for people because they're so scared that that
person has so many options. So I'd rather change to
be everything you want me to be so that you
don't leave me to find someone else. But in that process,

(33:18):
I'll become someone I don't even recognize because I didn't
want to become that person at all, And now you
will leave me anyway because you can tell I'm not
really authentically that person. So it almost hurts twice, one
in unbecoming yourself and then in losing the other person
anyway because you didn't become who they needed you to be.

(33:43):
So many people today feel like there's plenty efficient the
sy there's so many options. What do you do when
you meet someone you like them, but you can tell
that they have some detachment because they have this idea
that there's plenty efficiency, and you're trying to hold on
to them. You can tell you're trying to hold on
then knowing that they might ultimately let you go anyway.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
Do you value commitment? Do you value someone who also
knows what they want? If you have if you have
a clear vision of the kind of relationship you want,
the way you want your relationship to feel, consistent, reliable, warm, fun,
it's playful. When you understand that, becomes a lot easier

(34:28):
to discern who's for you and who's not. Someone who's
still worried about all the other fish in the sea,
who's easily distracted, who that catches their eye, that catches
their eye, and you feel like you have to control them.
If it feels like you have to control them, it's
not love. And you can't build a relationship, a fulfilling
relationship from that place. So if you notice that they
don't value the same things you do, they don't value

(34:50):
commitment in the same ways, then they're probably not for you,
because the last thing you want to do is chase
after them, try and convince them to want the same
things that you want. And please, I'll show you so
how good it'll be if you'll just choose me. Then
you end up losing yourself in a in the very
ways that you're trying to avoid in the first place.

Speaker 3 (35:09):
It's always hard.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
I always find that we're willing to tolerate bad behavior
from someone we're really into versus someone we're kind of into.
And so when we say we want reliability, if the
person we're really into doesn't message back, we'll be patient.
But if someone were kind of into doesn't message back,
We're like, oh, red flag.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
That was me?

Speaker 1 (35:29):
That was I mean, that was that was a childhood
childhood wound of Am I lovable? Am I difficult to love?
Who do I have to become to get someone to
choose me to pay attention to me?

Speaker 3 (35:42):
Right?

Speaker 1 (35:43):
So, oh, you kind of like me, you kind of
are interested, you kind of pay enough attention. I'm going
to get the other fifty percent of that attention from you.
I'm going to earn it. I'm going to tolerate the
hurt that disrespect because you're giving me a little bit
of what I want and I'm going to prove it.
And then I'd get into really relationships fully chosen, stable, love,

(36:03):
very good people, and I'd test them. No, you don't
hear m mmm. I'm going to show you that I
can rebel against this. I'm going to show you that
I'm hard to love so that then I can come
back and earn it again. That is an That is
a childhood wound that doesn't heal until you take accountability
for it. It wasn't until I realized the pattern at
play and I got sick of my own shit. I

(36:26):
got sick of the same hurt, the same anxiety, the
same cycles like I don't want this. And then I
took accountability and realized that the stubility and the love
that I was looking for was going to require me
to make value based decisions first and foremost, and really

(36:46):
show up and support myself and soothe myself. When I
wanted to run, or when I wanted to beg or
when I wanted to react, I had to learn to respond.
Little tidbit about me.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
I was going to ask, you, did, how bad did
it have to get for you to take accountability?

Speaker 1 (37:06):
I really lost myself, chasing the feeling of being chosen,
had given up on dreams, lost all confidence, tolerated just
the worst possible behavior, just was a shell of myself,

(37:26):
really and truly and when you reach that level, when
essentially rock bottom, you either have to pull yourself out
or you realize how deep and dark it'll feel until
you find the courage, and you don't want to live
like that. I didn't want to live like that. I
knew that there was an option, and I knew it
was going to be hard, and I knew that it
was going to take a hell of a lot of time, attention, understanding,

(37:50):
patience for myself. But one of the best things, one
of the best things I've ever done, A big piece
of what actually got me into this work quite frankly,
tell me about that the pattern I was just talking about,
you know, choose me, see me, what can I do
to earn your attention? That primarily came from my mother.
And my mother died of cancer back in twenty nineteen,

(38:18):
and there was something about her death that was so
devastating and yet so healing because of the way we
were able to repair before she passed. So we got
to have these conversations peel back so honest, so honest,

(38:41):
and the safety and space it created, feeling seen and
chosen and loved in such a way, even though it
was the end. There was something about that moment, and
obviously the journey of grief that came after that that
changed me to my core. And this is all happening
around the same time the feeling like I was at

(39:01):
rock bottom the death of my mother. There was so
much going on there where I realized that I was
looking for evidence to confirm or deny the beliefs that
I had learned in this mother daughter dynamic growing up,
that I was hard to love, that I was difficult
to love, that I needed to fight to be chosen.
I was looking for evidence to confirm that everywhere, and

(39:24):
it felt awful. It felt awful. So there was a
bit of the love and support and honesty that I
was able to find in these conversations with my mother,
and then the work that I did after she passed
to learn to show up for myself and no longer

(39:46):
tolerate those beliefs, no longer take those beliefs as fact,
And that was really where where the work was. That's
where the work came from.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
First of all, sorry for your loss, because it sounds
like a really difficult time through everything that you just mentioned.
And at the same time, my question is how useful
was it to repair with her and could more of

(40:18):
us heal our relationships with our future partners by repairing
our relationships with our parents in any way.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
If you have the option, if you have the option,
it's worth a try. But you don't need to. You
don't need to. And I was so blessed and so
lucky to be able to number one have the time
before she passed because she was sick, but for her
to also have an open heart and an open mind

(40:52):
to meet me there. I know that that's not a
luxury that every everyone gets, and that's really hard if
anyone can relate to that. I just want to acknowledge
how there's a grief in and of that. You know
that you don't have a parent that will meet you
in such a way, you don't have a person of
such importance that will meet you meet either, but there

(41:14):
absolutely is a process of a similar strategy I just
explained that you can do on your own, which is
meeting yourself in the ways you wish that parent would
meet you. What do you wish they would say? What
do you wish they would validate about you? Because my
guess is what you wish they would validate about you

(41:35):
are the same things you bring into those romantic relationships.
I wish you would accept me. I wish you would
just love I wish you would look at me and say,
I'm so proud of you. I see you. There's probably
a few flavors of that that show up in your
conflict with your romantic partner. Right, And if you're with
someone who is safe and loving and patient romantically, you're

(41:59):
you can have some of these conversations with them, Hey,
I feel this way. You know, maybe it came from
mom or dad, maybe it didn't, but communicating that sharing that,
that's how we grow in relationship is by bringing these beliefs. Hey,
what I'm feeling? Is this what I'm hearing in this conversation.
I heard you just say that you don't love me
and you don't care about this relationship. And they look

(42:20):
at you like I just told you that I that
I is going to be home two hours late.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
What do you?

Speaker 1 (42:25):
I didn't? What?

Speaker 3 (42:27):
Right?

Speaker 1 (42:27):
That's and that's where the understanding and the healing and
the reprogramming really comes from. But it takes a hell
of a lot of vulnerability that's not always comfortable, but
it's always worth it.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:39):
Always.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
One of my early experiences of love was I was overloved,
and then I was made to feel guilty for not
reciprocating back at that level. And so when I first
started dating my wife, I would do exactly the same.
I would over love and then guilt her for not
loving me in the same amount.

Speaker 3 (43:17):
Back scoreboard totally. And her reaction.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Was very human and eventually helpful, because my love and
there were so many other things that were so worthy
of love that her reaction was just she pulled away
because she didn't understand. Because at one point she'd be like, well,
I didn't ask for you to overlove me, and then
she'd be like, but I am loving you, just not

(43:44):
exactly perfectly in the way that you're saying it. And
because I believed her, and because I believe there was
truth to it, I remember the moment the penny dropped
for me where I was like, oh my gosh, this
is exactly me repeating a pattern no wonder, no one
wants to be And I saw my sister do the same,
and I just I just noticed how like that was

(44:04):
how we were trained to love. And I remember the
moment I realized that, and I could find all these
other patterns in how I loved my wife in an
unhealthy way. It just transformed our entire relationship because now
there weren't there wasn't any of that. And it's so
funny because I felt so righteous in that belief at
the time that I was like, I must be right.

(44:27):
Of course I'm right. I'm the one who's doing everything.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Where did it turn Where your realization when did it?
Was it something she said?

Speaker 2 (44:35):
Was well it was it was her pulling away And
it was almost like it kind of made the scoreboard
not work because in my relationship with love, if someone
did that to me, I just turned up how they
wanted me to turn up.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
But what was the thing that helped you realize that?
It was a personal pattern? The accountability of oh shit,
that's my stuff to us.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
I think it ended up because it was so long ago.
Now I believe it was probably I ended up being
a conversation where I think my wife said something to
me like I just don't know what I could ever
do to make you happy, Like I'm like, I just
don't know, like even if I did this, and I
did this and I did that, I don't even know

(45:17):
if it would ever be enough. And I think when
she said that to me, and I thought about it.
I was like, yeah, I think she's right. I don't
think it would have even if she did all those
things that I said I wanted yes, or thought back,
it would never be enough because I'd just find something else.
And when I also started to realize that when I

(45:39):
went above and beyond for her, it was never because
she asked for it or wanted it or even one
of the things I went above and beyond for. So
that was also self inflicted. And actually if I was
more present and aware, then maybe I'd meet her with
where she wants and what.

Speaker 1 (45:53):
She wants, almost like you almost so like you could
get love.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Correct, absolutely that I felt to earn it, and so
you're giving a lot thinking that's how you get love,
not realizing love was in the every day and the
little things and the beautiful things and the you know,
the things that are there. And then and then there
was another conversation that we had, This was a few
years later that was really illuminating. Was I said to her,

(46:18):
I feel like I'm always planning our vacations, and I
do all the planning and the detail and everything, and
it's almost like I don't feel like I get the break,
and she was like, I'm more than happy to plan it.
But the difference is, she was like, when you plan something,
I'll happily do whatever you plan, But when I planned something,
you'll have one hundred things you'll find wrong with it

(46:40):
and you'll be unhappy about it. And that really hit
me because I was like, gosh, she's so right, Like
that's exactly what I would do.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
I would I would be upset.

Speaker 2 (46:48):
The schedule and the timeline and everything because I have
a viewpoint on how it should be done. And therefore
she allows me to plan it because she knows I'll
be happier that way on both accounts. But so it's
so interesting how so much of it isself inflicted because
I've found there the more I take responsibility for how
I need to change, and the more she takes responsibility
for how she needs to change, the better our relationship gets,

(47:10):
rather than her telling me how I need to change
and me telling her how she needs to change.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
Well on what a comment, I call it the criticism
and withdrawal loop. One person says I want more, the
other person says, why is nothing that I do ever enough?
And that can quickly spiral your taking your story. For example, hey,
I always plan these things. I would love it if
if you would plan the vacations more. Yeah, she could

(47:36):
easily say, I throughout this idea last time, and you
shut me down. And I tried to throw out this
idea before and you won't go for it. Nothing I
ever do is not where do you want me to
go with this? And it turns into this spiral, and
then after that there's a withdrawal or the criticism gets louder.
I told you you didn't plan this last vacation, and
you know what, you haven't planned any date nights either.

(47:56):
It all falls on me. What's really being communicated is, hey,
can I share this mental load? Can I Can we
share in the emotional labor here a little bit? Can
you show up and can you help? Can I get
some support? Can I feel your connection right? That would
mean a lot to me. And I'm a little overwhelmed.

(48:18):
I feel like I can't quite find the right words
or the right thing, and it feels like you don't
accept me, like you don't like nothing I do is
valued same driving intention, very different ways to approach the
conversation right, so our ability to understand why something is

(48:39):
bothering us and communicate That is paramount. In addition, being
able to listen in for the intention even if your
partner can't explicitly communicate it is also really important. Maybe
you and Roddy can give everyone a masterclass.

Speaker 2 (48:55):
And I think we both generally just you know, it's
been I think for us they've been very healthy conversations
because we both have a similar understanding of not raising
voices and not getting angry. Like we both have a
good set of rules that I think we said early
on what we wanted conflict to look like, or disagreements

(49:16):
to look like.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
Did you know to pick someone with such a temperament?
Was it a parent when you first met each other,
or was that something that was communicated or happened just coincidentally.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
I think I got lucky at the start, and then
became more conscious of as we got more serious, and
have become even more grateful as years have gone by,
And so I think there was a bit of luck
in the beginning, and then maybe you were even developing.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
It naturally drawn to her temperament maybe for sure?

Speaker 2 (49:50):
For sure, Yeah, yeah, there's definitely that there was a
natural draw, but it was an unconscious experience in the beginning,
then became more conscious and focused and developed. And I
always it's like you, you can get a lot of things
right without not without knowing, but then once you know,
it's good to focus on getting them better. Yes, but
I wanted to ask you this question. You say one
of my favorite things that you say. You said in

(50:11):
a video that you can tell how much you love
yourself by the partner that you've chosen.

Speaker 3 (50:18):
Tell me about that.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Well. I pose it as a question because if you
hear someone say in the video, I think you're referring to,
how would you feel if someone said that they can
tell how much you love yourself by the partner that
you've chosen. Does that feel like a compliment or an insult?

(50:41):
And what that really distills down to. I'm not passing
a judgment on your relationship, but the way you feel
about that question can offer a lot of insight. Have
you tolerated treatment that really really doesn't feel great, It
doesn't really feel loving. It's not what someone would put

(51:03):
up with if they loved themselves, or Man, I've chosen
a really patient, loving, incredible person. You know, some part
of me must like myself enough to choose someone who
loves me in such a way. It's really really most
mostly about reflection. What is it that we're choosing? And
am i? Am I making decisions building relationships, investing in

(51:25):
relationships that reflect love, love for myself and back to
the values. Do you know am I making decision based
on my values? Or am I stagnant? Am I complacent?
Am I participating in this negative dynamic as well? It's
really about reflection and seeing what comes up for people.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
Yeah, it's a great reflection, such a great question, and
it's a great way if you're dating right now to
really make the right shifts and changes.

Speaker 3 (51:56):
Absolutely, And if.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
You're married and you feel like you may the wrong decision,
what would you do if someone's listening to that and
they're going, like, I'm listening to you right now, Qan
that that feels tough because my partner is not present.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (52:15):
I know they love me, but you know, I'm not
sure we I think we lost it somewhere along the way.
What would you say to them?

Speaker 1 (52:22):
I love that distinction too. I say dating is dating
is about discernment. Marriage is about devotion, not the other
way around. Say that again, dating is about discernment, not devotion.
Devotion is to be saved for marriage or long term relationships,
long term partnerships. That's important as you're making decisions. But

(52:45):
what I would say to someone who's realizing that maybe
their relationship dynamic is not as loving as they would
want it to be. First things first, take a look
at your side of the street. That does doesn't mean,
That doesn't mean it's your fault. This is not a
blame game. But if you envision the kind of relationship

(53:06):
you want this with your husband, with your wife, with
your partner, what does it consist of? And how can
you add more of that? Now? How can you be
the first to add to try? How can you show
up as the partner you want to be? Where's the
appreciation for the ways that they are making effort. It's

(53:27):
really easy to get sucked into a disappointment spiral, like
you go down the rabbit hole and all you can
see are the things that they aren't doing, the things
are doing wrong, the ways that they aren't showing up.
Pull yourself out of that. If you want your relationship
to work, you have to pull yourself out of that.
Even if you choose to leave, don't choose to leave
in the bottom of the disappointment spiral. Anyway, clean up

(53:50):
your side of the street, and go first. That's what
I would say. The follow up to that is have
a conversation with your spouse. Hey, I want more of
this because I love you. I feel really distant, I
feel really lonely. We both have a lot going on.
Can we come up with a plan to reconnect. What

(54:12):
do you want more of? Here's what I want more of.
Can we get on board? It doesn't have to be
so hum drum you negative? Oh, we have to fix this.
It can be an exciting thing if you want it
to be. And if you come with the right energy,
and if it is the right person, then they'll at
least try to meet you.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Ei there. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
What's the difference between keeping someone accountable and trying to
change them?

Speaker 1 (54:35):
I don't think you can keep people accountable. I don't
really believe that it's possible.

Speaker 3 (54:41):
We'll hold someone accountable.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
If you're with someone who's really lacking consistency, they're not
really following through on their word, and you're thinking, I
need a little bit more here. They are not taking initiative.
I can't trust them to do what they say that
they're going to do, you can bring that up. This
is what I'm noticing. I'm finding it hard to rely

(55:04):
on you because you haven't done the things that you
said that you're going to do. I mean, can we
talk about this And if they say I want to
be a more consistent, reliable person, thank you for bringing
that to my attention. Great. Now they want to make
that change, You've brought it to light. It is on
them to make the change. You can lovingly hey, again,

(55:26):
this thing didn't get done, but it's the buck stops there. Yeah,
you can't be breathing down their neck. You definitely don't
want to meet them with criticism or constant disappointment. People
don't actually change from that place. So if they want
to make the change themselves, great, beautiful, the onus is
on them. You can be loving and supportive in the process.
But I don't believe that we can really hold people

(55:48):
accountable and we definitely can't force them to change.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
I fully agree, And I think the hardest part of
it is you know how hard it is to change yourself.
So even when someone says they want to change, you've
got to realize how hard that is, right, You may
have your partner say to you, yeah, I really do
want to work out and get in the gym more,
and then they're never in the gym. They're always watching sport,
they're hanging out whatever it is.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
You know how hard that is to do.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
And so it's such an interesting dynamic because we almost
think change should be really easy for other people, knowing
that it's really hard for ourselves, and then when they
don't change, we're upset or disappointed in them. And if
you just thought for a second about how hard it
is to change yourself and build good habits yourself, I
think you'd have more empathy and compassion for someone else.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
That's that's how I see it. At least.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
We tend to judge ourselves by our intentions, and we
tend to judge others by their actions or their follow
through or the result of their thing. Right, So I
meant to go to the gym five days this week.
I really only made it once, but I intended to.
You know, I had a lot going on. My intentions
were good, I tried. They don't go to the gym

(57:00):
five times a week, they only go once, and suddenly
it's a reflection of their character. Right, they're unreliable, they
lack discipline, they aren't motivated. That let's hold on here,
let's let's find the color amongst all this black and
white thinking. I totally agree.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's it's the toughest one. I see.
It's I always just feel like.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
And that's why I love that you said start on
your side of the street, because I think a lot
of relationship language and podcasting and conversations right now are
all about how do you spot if someone's good? And
I'm just like, oh, it's a dangerous game to play
because in that scenario, you're always the detective and the
secret agent, and the other person's always the villain in

(57:42):
some way. And while that can be true in certain
cases where there's extremes, the reality is most of us
are all flawed and making mistakes at the same time.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
And if you want a peaceful, emotionally intelligent person right
with all of these traits that are wonderful, I love
that for you, you have to be the other half
of that relationship, right. You also want to be patient
and calm, slow to conflict, kind with your words, even

(58:13):
when you're frustrated. You can handle some disappointment and you
want to be the other half of that loving relationship.
It's not going to come from focusing on all the
red flags you need to look out for and all
the things that the specific ways they need to show
up to prove to you that they are who they
say that they are. Focused on your side of the street,

(58:35):
focus on being the other half of this relationship that
you want so badly, rather than trying to figure out
the quick fixes to avoid all of the bad fish
in the sea. It's a waste of time.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
In my opinion.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
You said in one of your videos, the only people
who are upset with your boundaries are the very same
people who directly benefit from you not having any.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
I love that. Can you explain.

Speaker 1 (59:00):
Who loves you wants you to have boundaries. Someone who
loves you wants there to be limits on what you
will and won't tolerate. What you have capacity for don't
have capacity for that is necessary. Someone who loves you,
and better yet, someone you want in your life. We

(59:21):
can argue all day, do they love me or do
they not? If they're disrespecting your boundaries, you probably don't
want them to have much access to you. Energetically, emotionally.
At the end of the day, boundaries aren't designed to
keep people out. They aren't designed to hurt anyone's feelings.
They're designed to maintain your finite amount of energy and attention. Right,

(59:44):
I can't say yes to everything it doesn't have I
can't say yes to everything and still show up in
the ways that I want to show up. You keep
the character and integrity that I really like about myself.
There's no way to do that. Someone who loves me
is going to encourage that and respect that. And the
people who benefit from you not having the people who
want to take more from you, who want more and

(01:00:06):
more and more, who are more self centered, they won't care.
They won't care if it's good for you or bad
for you or not. They're more focused on themselves. And
that's disrespectful, that's not loving, and that's not someone who
should have an infinite amount of access to you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
How do you set an effective boundary? Because I think
we've got used to the language, but we don't really
know how to do it. We think that a boundary
protects you from other people, but really a boundary is
something that protects you from yourself and your natural triggers
or ways of behavior. So how do we set a
behavior that protects us rather than trying to keep other

(01:00:45):
people out.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
A boundary is I will or won't blank if blank?
I will or won't blank if blank. So that means
it is all within your control. I won't participate in
this conversation. If you yell at me again, I won't. Well,

(01:01:07):
I'm gonna have to walk away.

Speaker 3 (01:01:08):
Yeah, and you're not saying that to them. You need
to know that as well.

Speaker 1 (01:01:11):
Yeah, yeah, either or right. I don't want to participate
in a relationship with someone who lies to me. I won't,
I will not. You need to know that for yourself. Absolutely,
you could share these things with other people, right back
to the conversation with difficult parents or contentious relationships with
your parents. You know, I really value our relationship, but

(01:01:35):
I won't stay if you keep talking to me that way,
if you keep bringing up that issue, I'm gonna walk away.
I will blank if blank is a boundary, not you
can't blank blank blank not. You better not. It's not
a threat. It's a rule for yourself, and your boundaries
are for you to respect.

Speaker 3 (01:01:58):
And that's the hardest part. Right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
I feel like we compromise our own boundaries. So we
say things like I won't participate in this conversation if
you lie to me, but then we continue to participate
because it's not really a boundary. It's hoping they won't
lie to you. Right, We're saying it hoping you'll stop
lying if I threaten you. Yes, but you just said it's.

Speaker 3 (01:02:19):
Not a threat.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
It's a boundary if we recognize I have to leave now,
so if you're lying, I now have to walk away,
But we don't want to do that because we're hoping
they change yes. So it's like a secret, hidden hope
as opposed to a boundary.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
The manipulation that you just kind of described, like I'm
going to say that I won't tolerate it, but then
if you actually do it, then I will say because
what I'm really trying to get is you to show
up for me and trying to get you to love me,
So I'm going to mix in this threat'. That's a
hell of a lot of manipulation rather than having your
own back, like really respecting yourself enough to say I

(01:02:56):
will not tolerate this. Myself respect is not worth the
emotional turmoil that comes from allowing this kind of behavior.
That's really hard. That's really hard. You have to choose
your self respect over your desire to be chosen or
your desire to not be alone. That's that's paramount. Absolutely.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Is there such a thing as the one or a soulmate?

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
The one is the one that you choose. The one
is the person whose natural essence compliments yours in a
way that makes love and growth a little bit easier,

(01:03:45):
a little bit, right, it's a little bit. Sometimes it's
still hard, but ideally you choose well. You use discernment
in the beginning. You admire someone's integrity, you really suspect them,
you really cherish them, you like them, which is often

(01:04:07):
an overlooked one. You know, it's he's he's this tall
and it makes this much money, so he'll be the one. Well, okay,
but do you.

Speaker 3 (01:04:16):
Like the guys here?

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
That's really important. And then you build the relationship from there,
respecting the other person, respecting yourself, and again creating this
third entity. One thing I also think is overlooked when
it comes to choosing the one and being the one.
This is this is this works for both sides. You
need to be your partner, your person's biggest fan. I

(01:04:41):
mean that with my whole heart. You need to be
your partner's biggest fan. And if you can't, then you
either need to check in on your insecurities. You either
need to pay attention, or you've chosen the wrong person.
If you don't want their dreams to come to true,
if you don't want them to succeed, if you don't

(01:05:03):
want them to be their happiest best self, do not
promise to spend a lifetime with them. I really really
think that that's important and not talked about enough. I
don't hear that very much. We talk about the conflict stuff, right,
we talk about how to handle boundaries and how to
do all of that. But you want someone in your corner.

(01:05:23):
You want someone in your corner on your worst days,
on your best days, and you want to feel like
you're on the same team. And I deeply believe you
need to be your your person's biggest fan and that
contributes to them being the one and building the right relationship.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
When you were saying that, it was reminding me of
wedding vows, and I was thinking about how we spend
so long planning a wedding and not building a marriage
and just the discrepancy between the two, even how long
you'll take to write your vowels, but then to live
up to those vowels takes a whole different set of skills,

(01:06:17):
and we don't really put that much effort into building
those skills and working on those parts those maintaining those skills.
How do you know if you're in love with someone
or just the idea of them?

Speaker 1 (01:06:33):
How do you know if you're in love with someone
or just the idea of them? Is there a difference
between how you wish they would be and how they
actually are?

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
How?

Speaker 1 (01:06:45):
Why does that gap? How much of the relationship do
you actually enjoy versus how much time are you spending
trying to change them, trying to change the dynamic. I
like to say, if you allow your person to be
exactly who they want to be, without molding them, without

(01:07:08):
controlling them, without micromanaging them, but you allow them to
show up just as they are, does that help you
feel more or less like the person you want to be?
Does that feel more or less like the kind of
relationship you want to be in. It doesn't mean it's perfect,
doesn't mean it's all the time, But if you it
doesn't mean that they won't change, doesn't mean you can't change.

(01:07:30):
But if you really allow them to be, if you
accept them for exactly who they are, does that help
or hinder what you want love to feel like? That's
one question asked.

Speaker 2 (01:07:42):
It's a great question. I love that question. It's such
an important question because that is who you're with ninety
percent of the time, and that is what you'll experience.
And Yeah, if you're in love with the idea of them,
then you're absolutely right. You answer to that question will
be oh, because I want them to be a bit

(01:08:03):
more this, a bit more that, a bit more this.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
And do you need a bit more? Is that bit
more that you're missing really really important to you? If
it is, by all means, do what you gotta do.

Speaker 3 (01:08:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
But I think a lot of times we fool ourselves
into thinking that the little bits that we're missing are
make or breaks, and we forget that loving someone is
such an honor. And this is more so geared towards
long term relationships marriages of sorts, but it's a real

(01:08:36):
honor to be able to love someone through several seasons
of their life, to be able to be their support system,
to be the smiling face that picks them up on
a day when they feel shitty to be there, when
they lose someone that they love, or they lose an opportunity,
or they hit their highest high to sit with them

(01:08:56):
on a Sunday night on the couch every Sunday for
years and years in aw. I mean, it's an honor
to love someone and to be there. And sometimes I
just think we need to reframe the way that we
view the person we're with as a whole human all
on their own, that we get the honor to love,

(01:09:19):
and that tends, that tends to clear out a lot
of the little bits that we aren't getting.

Speaker 3 (01:09:24):
Yeah, that's beautiful.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
You look at that person and you think, my god,
I really do love them. Look at the way that
they do the dishes or tie their shoes. I love
the way that they drive, the way they dance to
museic I love. I love to watch them get ready
and put you know, do their morning routine whatever. Like,
you just look at that human and remember that it's
an honora to love them, and maybe that'll clear out

(01:09:48):
some of the bits that you're missing.

Speaker 2 (01:09:50):
Yeah, what do you wish people lost themselves before they
got married?

Speaker 1 (01:09:56):
Do I want to be a partner or do I
want a spouse? And the difference there is when you
want to be a partner, when you want to be
someone's support system, when you want to be the co
creator of the marriage that you're about to step into

(01:10:19):
the life that you're going to build. There's accountability and
responsibility in that, and it really allows you to focus
on what you can control, which is how you show up. Now,
assuming you're walking walking to that altar and you know
this person pretty damn well, and you've spent a good

(01:10:41):
long time seeing who they are, understanding their heart, really
caring for them, all of that, you're gonna have to
remember that sometimes the best you can do is show
up as the partner you want to be that you
want to be, even if your seasons are are misaligned.
Matthew Kaey has this great bit in a podcast that

(01:11:02):
he did or He says, sometimes you're walking and they're running,
and sometimes you're running and they're walking, and you just
have to make sure that one doesn't get too far
ahead of the other. And I love that. Yeah, I
love him.

Speaker 3 (01:11:13):
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I love that too.

Speaker 1 (01:11:15):
I think that's well said.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Yeah, absolutely, And I think it's about how you communicate
when you are that. I've always thought about it as
sometimes me and my wife are driving to the same event,
but we're driving separately. She's going to get there early
and I'm going to be late, and so I'm on
the phone. I'm like, hey, I'm going to be late,
and she's like, well, I'm going to be early. And
I'm like, okay, Well, do you want to wait for
me because you want to go in together or do

(01:11:38):
you want to go in without me and I'll follow
you in there, And she's like, no, I want to
wait for you to go in there together. And it's
like you're both driving separately, but you're talking to each
other the whole time about where you're at, and that's
that conversation that calms you both down, rather than you
have no idea what time that person's getting there. One
of the challenges I find is that everyone wants a
lot of what I hear is people want their partner

(01:12:00):
to talk to them more emotionally and tell them more.
And there's a lot of people who don't want to
do that, or don't know how to do that, or
don't feel the need for it. And the person who
wants to talk, kind of gets a bit annoyed and
frustrated and upset that their partner won't talk. What's your
advice in that scenario?

Speaker 1 (01:12:20):
What's the loving thing to do? You know? And that
probably requires both sides of the aisle to adjust a
little bit. You're not going to get perfect words all
the time. It's not going to happen, and you're going
to have to give imperfect words a lot of the time.
You're going to have to try. My aunt and uncle
are in their mid seventies early seventies. They've been married

(01:12:43):
for twenty five thirty or something like that, and we
were just having a conversation the other night. I was
asking my uncle John, I said, what is your secret
to the what's the magic? How has this happened? They're
probably the happiest couple I know. Incredible And he said,
she tells me what she wants to hear, and I
repeat it back to her and he meant Jay, He

(01:13:04):
meant it with his full chest. I've seen them do it.
My aunt Beth will say, I need you to tell
me that this is going to be okay. You hear me.
You've got my back, and you've got it covered, and
he will recite it right back to her word for word,
and they say, Okay, I love you and leave it there,
and some to and some people will think, but if
I have to say it, if I have to tell

(01:13:25):
them what to say, it doesn't matter. It erodes the
value and this, that and the other. If your person
is asking to be loved in a specific way, put
your stuff aside and show up so the best of
your ability. It will not be perfect all the time,
it's sure as hell won't. But do the loving thing,
and that is typically to show up in the ways

(01:13:46):
that your partner is explicitly asking you to. If you
want bonus points, anticipate some of those needs right, pay
attention and try to do it without having to be asked,
But don't knock the direct communication. And then choose the
loving thing to do.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Yeah, yeah, How do you start to trust yourself again
when someone breaks up with you that you thought you
were going to be with for a long time.

Speaker 1 (01:14:14):
Well, step one. Grieve. You know, there's an acute phase
of heartbreak where you don't have to do anything right
or well, you can just be That's step number one,
especially if it's a breakup after a long long relationship.
The next step is reflection. You know, right now, the

(01:14:36):
story might be they left me, they didn't love me,
all those years were wasted. How could I have done that?
I should have known, right, I must be disposable. It's
a lot that's harsh. There's more color in that story.
So what were some of the red flags or some
of the even just the disconnection, the things that weren't working.

(01:14:59):
Takes some accountability in that, you know, I didn't communicate
as well as I really wish that I would have,
Or you know what, I stayed way too long because
I tried to communicate and that person wasn't meeting me.
That was really difficult. Take some accountability around how you
may have contributed what you want in your relationship moving forward,

(01:15:21):
and more so focusing on who you want to be
now that that chapter has closed, Because I can tell
you one thing, the person who was for you is
the person who wants to be with you. If they
aren't willing to try, they're definitely not your person. And
I think that most things, most relationships can be worked

(01:15:42):
out if two people are willing if you want it to,
barring some extreme cases, but if they're not willing, they're
not your person now. When it comes to moving on specifically,
I always say stop trying, because we think that if
if I just do all of these steps, I have
to do this in the morning and this at night,

(01:16:03):
and this is my evening routine, and then I'll wake
up someday and I'll be moved on, as if it's
a destination. As I imagine yourself tomorrow morning, you wake
up and you get what you wanted. You want to
move on. You want to trust yourself again. If you
knew for certain that you would wake up tomorrow and
that was your reality, what would you do with yourself?

Speaker 3 (01:16:24):
Oh, that's such a good question.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
What would you think about, how would you spend your time,
what would you invest your energy into, Who would you
spend your time with, What would you think about, what
would you talk about? And then just start to do
some of those things. Bring the grief with you. It's
probably not going to happen as fast as you want
it to. But you want a direction. You want a
clearer vision of where you're going so that you can
head in that direction.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
Yeah, so good.

Speaker 2 (01:16:48):
That's such a good answer, because, yeah, all the little
tips and tricks to try and move on quick. It
doesn't process like that. And I love the idea of
what would your life look like if you'd already moved on,
because that's what you're waiting for. You're waiting for that anyway,
You're waiting for the day you've moved on and you
can say I'm over it and I'm ready for whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:17:09):
What is it? What does that look like? And start
mirroring that today. That's brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:17:12):
You want the thing, right, I just want to move on?
What does that even mean to you? It's like, let's
define it. That gives you something to move towards. Yes,
which is so important. And moving on doesn't even necessarily
mean that you don't care. You might still care, Yes,
you might care about that person for the rest of
your life.

Speaker 2 (01:17:28):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:17:29):
But you want to build whatever your next chapter is
to be as enjoyable and intentional as possible. Yes, And
that gives you somewhere to go.

Speaker 3 (01:17:39):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:17:40):
And mostly I was coaching someone earlier this year and
they were going through a breakup. And the first month
they broke up, they talked about it every day. The
second month after they broke up, they talked about every
other day. The third month they talked about it every
three days. The fourth month, they talked about it once
a week, and the fifth month they thought about it

(01:18:01):
once a month. And I had to remind them of that,
because to them, every reminder was as sharp as remembering
it every day. And I like people to think about
it like that. You're not trying to get to a
point where tomorrow you don't think.

Speaker 3 (01:18:17):
About it at all.

Speaker 2 (01:18:19):
You're just thinking about it less because your life looks
like how you want it to be and what it
would be like if you were free. And I've always
thought about that mindset, even when I've had Even when
you think about physical pain, if you want to wake
up tomorrow and you've had surgery or you're hurt or
whatever and you want to be completely healed, it would
never happen. You'll only ever be one percent better if
you did all the right things. And as soon as

(01:18:41):
you accept that, all I need to do is be
one percent better today, all of a sudden you see
that progress. But when you're looking to be one hundred
percent better and you aren't, now you feel ninety nine
percent behind, and it just becomes so amplified. And that's
what it feels like to be wanting to heal from
a breakup, and you're constantly feeling on why haven't I
healed yet?

Speaker 3 (01:18:58):
That's that ninety percent.

Speaker 1 (01:19:00):
And oftentimes there are beliefs, almost almost identities that we
find ourselves trying to finding ourselves wrestling with when a
breakup happens. No one will choose me. I'm never good enough,
Nothing that I do is good enough. No one will stay.
It was all my fault or it was all their fault.
How could they? And we find these these absolutes that

(01:19:22):
are really really difficult to do anything productive with. Truly,
I mean, it doesn't it doesn't make you feel better emotionally.
You can't really move yourself forward from there. And that's
what I say about. Just be be malleable with the
story for a while, for the first month, for the
first one, at a maybe at a question mark to

(01:19:45):
the end of that, like I'm difficult to love question mark.

Speaker 3 (01:19:49):
Just just just.

Speaker 1 (01:19:51):
Don't wrestle with the absolutes. Give yourself time and space
to consider another narrative, because I promise you there's color,
there's nuance in that they didn't leave. Because you're hard
to love someone choosing not to love you is not
a reflection of how lovable or unlovable you are, so
you know that, don't wrestle with the absolute. Give yourself

(01:20:15):
time and space would be another piece of advice.

Speaker 3 (01:20:17):
I like the question mark that's good. Yeah, it's true,
it's true, it's totally true. It's totally true. I love
that Q. Have you ever had your heartbroken.

Speaker 1 (01:20:27):
Many times in many different ways? Yeah, and it's a
I have an interesting relationship with grief now, and in
part of course, my mom is a big part of that.
But losing relationships and growing through heartbreak has always been

(01:20:49):
a catalyst for me. And I don't say that as
like I'm so high and mighty and this is so impressive. No,
it's usually quite ugly, and it's usually quite messy to
really look at yourself and put the pieces back together
and try to move on. But I've always come out
the other side liking myself more, accepting uglier parts of

(01:21:12):
myself that I don't think I accepted previously.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Did.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
You got to take a real look at why you
did what you did, how you showed up the people
that you chose, and sometimes that means accepting like, man,
I've been I haven't been making the best choices and
you have to love that, you have to accept that,
and it expands your capacity in a way that allows

(01:21:38):
for the emotional flexibility we were talking about earlier, where
the deepest heartbreak losing my mom, losing people that I
thought I would spend the rest of my life with.
Losing that makes everything else a little bit easier to process.
If I can survive that, survive a lot, a lot,

(01:22:03):
and I've been there through all of that. I've picked
myself back up. I've built a support system of people
who remind me of that when when I forget rights.
But I really learned to like myself. I really learned
to trust myself, and I really learned that there can
be beauty in the mess if you stay put and

(01:22:25):
go through it long enough to find the bigger story,
the bigger meaning, the bigger narrative.

Speaker 3 (01:22:32):
Que.

Speaker 2 (01:22:32):
We end every episode of On Purpose with a final five.
These five questions have to be answered in one word
to one sentence maximum and so Q these are your
final five. The first question is what is the best
love advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:22:48):
Do the loving thing, Comma and choose appreciation.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
You can do that. That was that was very well done.

Speaker 2 (01:22:58):
Second question what is the worst love advice you've ever
heard or received?

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
Match their energy? Two wrongs don't make it right. That's
the reality. You don't matching someone's energy means you're handing
over your power. Your power is in how you respond.
Your power is in your intention. Are you going to
add more negativity to a situation you don't already you

(01:23:24):
already don't like, Maybe you can choose how you want
to respond rather than matching someone's energy, And even more so,
maybe your love, your decision to meet them in a
way that they can't seem to meet themselves in that moment,
is exactly what they need.

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
Love that I always say to people, you don't you
don't mess up your living room just because someone messes
coming over.

Speaker 3 (01:23:50):
Yes, guy, just don't do that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:54):
I'm not going to match that energy because then I'm
going to start walking over my rugs with my dirt issues. Right, Like,
why would I do that just because someone's coming over.
It's like, No, they're messy person.

Speaker 3 (01:24:04):
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (01:24:04):
That's their mind and their space, and I'm not going
to messy up my mind because we're interacting.

Speaker 1 (01:24:11):
It's a very inauthentic way to move through the world.
To build relationships absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Question number three, what did you used to believe to
be true about love and romance that you don't anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
I used to believe that love, the feeling was enough.
It's fantastical, it's alluring, right that someone will show up
and your whole life will be better everything. You'll be
whisked away by their love and live happily ever after.
That's not a story that you really want. You know,

(01:24:47):
you want to build a relationship intentionally. You want to
choose to give love and to build love and to
build this relationship. And sometimes it takes those those shitty moments,
those really tough moments, to remind you how much you
value the really good moments. And I think if love
was just a feeling, we would miss a lot of that.

(01:25:09):
Love is consideration, the action, the willingness to continue showing
up and creating more of it.

Speaker 3 (01:25:20):
Love.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
That question of before, what's something that you used to
value that you don't value anymore?

Speaker 1 (01:25:26):
Being understood. People can really only meet you as deeply
as they've met themselves, which means that some people simply
won't have the ability to understand you. And that's okay.
You don't need to fight to be heard, to be seen,
to be approved of. Sometimes it's just okay to say

(01:25:51):
we don't agree. I don't think you to understand, and let.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
It be Love that oka fIF question. We asked this
to every guest who's ever been on the show. If
you could create one law that everyone in the world
had to follow, what would it be.

Speaker 1 (01:26:10):
To live within your integrity, to decide for each person individually?
Like what is right to you? What kind of person
do you want to be? What is true for you
your truths? What kind of person do you strive to
be so much so that it feels in your bones,

(01:26:32):
in your heart just right. I wish it was a
law that everyone had to figure out what that meant
to them, and then they had to act on it consistently,
because I really believe that most, if not all, of
us would choose to be good people, would choose to
make value based decisions, kind decisions, loving decisions, not fear based, hurtful,

(01:27:00):
destructive decisions. I really believe that if we were all
living within integrity, if we had the courage to understand
that for ourselves, that we would do a lot of good.

Speaker 3 (01:27:10):
Yeah, I love that that would be lot you. Thank
you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:27:15):
Everyone has been listening and watching, whether you're walking your dog,
whether you're driving to or from work, whether you're cooking.
I'm so grateful that you joined us. Please make sure
that you follow Quinlan Welfare on social media across platforms.
And I want to know what resonated with you. I
want to know what connected with you, So tag us
both take the clips, post them, let us know what resonated,

(01:27:36):
what really got through to you. Share this with a
friend who may be going through a breakup issue, maybe
moving in with someone, maybe a friend's getting married soon.
This could be one of those episodes that I think
you can listen to, your friends and family can listen
to and connect with no matter where they are on
their love and romance journey. And again, Cuth, thank you
so much for showing up so authentically. It was so
great to just go back and forth with you and

(01:27:58):
dissect so many different themes and topic.

Speaker 3 (01:28:00):
I'm so grateful to spend time with you. A calm
wait to have you back.

Speaker 1 (01:28:02):
Thank you, Jan It's such a pleasure.

Speaker 3 (01:28:04):
Thanks appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (01:28:05):
Hey everyone, if you love that conversation, go and check
out my episode with the world's leading therapist Laurie Gottlieb,
where she answers the biggest questions that people ask in
therapy when it comes to love, relationships, heartbreak, and dating.
If you're trying to figure out that space right now,
you won't want to miss this conversation.

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
If it's a romantic relationship, hold hands. It's really hard
to argue.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
It actually calms your nervous systems. Just hold hands as
you're having the conversation. It's so lovely.

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