Sadia Khan: Stop Ignoring Red Flags! (How to Train Your Brain to Know When To Walk Away)

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey everyone, It's Jay Sheddy and I'm thrilled to announce
my podcast tour. For the first time ever, you can
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near you for meaningful, insightful conversations with surprise guests. It
could be a celebrity, top wellness expert, or a CEO
or business leader. We'll dive into experiences designed to experience growth,

(00:25):
spark learning, and build real connections. I can't wait to
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Head to Jsheddy, dop me Forward Slash Tour and get
yours today.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
The moment you heal your self esteem, we'll have a
natural distaste towards things that are a bad for you, people
who don't love you, people who don't treat you right.
How you know your self esteem is improving is that
the moment those people start treating you badly, you lose.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Attraction to them. The psychologist, teacher and relationship experts.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
What would be your advice as someone who feels like
they've got ghosted.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Chances are their hiding information ghosts. Regardless of their reason,
they're still poor communicators. So best predictor of future relationships
is their past relationships. People are their patterns. My number
one client is a man who's just been cheated on.
The women are cheating on the men. No, a lot
more than I ever expected.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
What's the worst thing to say to someone who's just
gone through a breaker?

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Well, you knew he was like that anyway, So what's
the problem.

Speaker 1 (01:27):
What can a woman do to make sure a man
doesn't cheer on it?

Speaker 3 (01:30):
I have a willingness to walk away when she's being disrespected.
That's all it really takes.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Wow, this is, without a doubt, my favorite relationship episode
we've ever done. The number one health and wellness podcast
Sheddy j Sheddy Everyone, Welcome back to on Purpose, the

(01:55):
place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed.
Today's get is going to help us do just that.
She is Sadia Khan, a renowned psychotherapist and former psychology
teacher whose bold, viral insights on modern relationships, masculinity, and
emotional healing have earned her a global following. Known for

(02:17):
her no nonsense approach, Sadia helps men and women navigate infidelity, identity,
and intimacy with clarity and strength. Sadia's mission is to
empower people to reclaim their confidence, understand themselves and others,
and build real, lasting love. Please welcome to On Purpose,

(02:37):
Sadia Khan.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so unbelievably
honored to be set opposite you, and I know I've
been gushing since I've arrived, but I can't express how
grateful I am.

Speaker 1 (02:47):
Well, Sadia, the feelings mutual. I've been loving following you
for the past couple of years and I can't wait
to have this conversation with you because I think you
present such a counterintuitive, refreshing, challenging view on love and
I appreciate it. So let's dive straight in perfect I
want to ask you, if someone applied your teachings that

(03:08):
you're about to share with us in the next couple
of hours, what would they overcome.

Speaker 2 (03:13):
The first thing that they would overcome is their fear
of conflict. One of the things that keeps people stuck
in relationships is that they have a fear of conflict
because it boils down to the have a fear of
walking away. And if people understood that the quality of
your relationships will vastly improve the moment you exercise the
ability to walk away when you're being heartbroken, when you're
being disrespected, and when you're being dehumanized. It actually brings

(03:35):
out the best in your partner when they know that
you have that strength. When you remove that strength from
your relationships, what ends up happening is that you attract
people who will use and abuse you and treat you
terribly because they see that your kindness is going to
be your downfall. So I think if you really apply
my teachings, the only thing that will happen is that
you will have the self esteem to simply attract people

(03:57):
who are good for you and develop a disdain towards
people treat you badly, And because of that, you can
select better and you can maintain your relationships in a
healthier way.

Speaker 1 (04:04):
I love that. So people are going to select better,
they're going to attract better, and they're going to stay
in the right relationships exactly. Let's start with the first one.
Most people I speak to feel like they keep attracting
people who are unavailable, people who don't want to commit,
people who don't have the emotional capacity for connection. Why
is it it's.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Not what we attract, is what we entertain. Most people
can attract pretty much everybody. Yeah, if we try hard enough,
we can pretty much attract everybody. But when we have
low self esteem, we have these personal prophecies that people
are supposed to be a bit unavailable, people are supposed
to pay hard to get, or it's normal that he
doesn't text back, or it's normal that he doesn't really
ask me how my day is. It's normal that he
only texts me at twelve am on a Friday night.

(04:45):
And because they believe that that's normalized to themselves, they
start to accept what's actually not going to lead to
a healthy relationship. The moment they figure out not what
they're attracting but what they're entertaining, they can take their
power back and say, I'm actually attracting all types of men,
but the ones I keep forming an attachment to are
the ones that leave me a bit anxious and the
ones that leave me worrying what this is and where

(05:06):
this is going. Instead of being attracted to that, I
start to learn that that is a signal that they've
got commitment issues, and all it's going to do is
delay my time, delay my ability to get married, delay
my ability to have a family, and so on and
so forth. So we can attract all types of men,
but we only entertain the ones that will enable you
to start a family, in a relationship, or whatever your
goal is. They enable that, and if they don't enable that,

(05:27):
try and lose attraction for them.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Why do we feel more attracted to people who make
us anxious and who are unavailable. Why is it that
we think that they're the ones worth chasing.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
Firstly, if we have low self esteem, we kind of
see as that this is supposed to happen, and nobody's
supposed to just overly adore and love us. That's probably
not going to happen. It's normal that we get treated
like this if that's your low self esteem. But the
other thing is unavailable men. Sometimes they demonstrate the idea
of having options and alternatives. Their mystery makes them seem

(05:59):
more disare and because of that mystery, we assume that
they've got something interesting going on, they've got alternatives, there's
something about them that's making them busy and making them dismissive,
when we really realize that it's actually they're just emotionally immature.
They're not this special guy that's got a million things
going and his work is taking over and he's so
so busy.

Speaker 3 (06:16):
Actually, he's just emotionally mature.

Speaker 2 (06:17):
He doesn't know how to commit, he doesn't how to
award off alternatives and just focus on one person at
the time. When you realize that it's actually a signal
of emotional immaturity than desirability, we actually won't be so
attractive to that person who can't communicate in a healthy way.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
I think, just on when I'm listening to you, I'm thinking,
if you want someone, like anyone should who texts back
within a decent amount of time, that's not an abnormal request.

Speaker 3 (06:41):
And nobody's that that busy.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
I know, like men like to sound busy at work
or I've got this going on, I'm that stressed, completely understandable,
but one text to let that person know will enable
them to just relax the whole day. But you can't
have the emotional maturity or the empathy to just send
that quick text, Then that person doesn't understand what it
takes to have a healthy relationship, and they're pro probably
not worth your investment.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Obviously, a lot of people these days aren't even getting
that far because they're meeting people on dating apps. Yeah,
and so you're swiping away. You might get into a
conversation with two or three people. First of all, let's
talk about this. You're not matching with anyone, like, no one,
It doesn't feel like it's going that Well. What do
you say to men and women who feel like they've

(07:21):
been rejected a few too many times and they're losing
that faith and ability to feel that there is someone
out there for them.

Speaker 2 (07:28):
Just to be careful on are you actually not matching
or are you disliking who you're matching with? Sometimes what's
happened is because of social media and because of dating apps,
we enter relationships with almost like a double standard or
a sense of comparison of comparing people to our algorithms.
We're saying, well, if he's not the dream guy, or
she's not the dream girl, if he's not a high
value man and she's not a high value woman, we

(07:49):
start to look at our matches with a level of distaste,
when sometimes a better thing to do is look at
the people who are matching with you and try and
see are they actually that bad?

Speaker 3 (07:59):
Is there something wrong with them?

Speaker 2 (08:00):
Or am I just comparing them to a dream, idea
or a partner that I haven't actually been able to access.
I always just think the more you like the person
you are, the higher your self esteem, The more you
like people who like you, the fact that the person
that are matching you automatically you start to like them
more because they've matched you, because you like you and
they like you as well. When you've got low self esteem,

(08:20):
you chase after people that you can't access. So my
advice to people who is always start with who likes you.
Always start with that poor and then home in on
that poll and see if you've got similar demographics, values,
so on and so forth. But where people go wrong
is they glorify the people that they're not matching with
and wanting a love that they've never been able to access,
and then comparing who they do get matched with with

(08:41):
these alternatives that aren't really real. So the better thing
is to focus on who does and maybe adapt your
standards to those people who are actually invested in you.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's so true, and I feel like what I'm thinking
people are going to say is, well, why do I
have to settle?

Speaker 2 (08:54):
If similarity feels like settling, then maybe your standards are
too high And what I mean by that is I
sometimes we all meet men who are in maybe in
their forties, on their second divorce and saying, I don't
want a woman with baggage, so I need somebody twenty
five years old. I don't want women with baggage. Or
sometimes I meet women who are, you know, not working,
and they say I want a man that's an entrepreneur
and got six figures. But I always just say, you

(09:16):
shouldn't you be looking for someone similar to you? And
if similar to you it starts to feel like you're settling,
then maybe your standards are a bit inflated. If what
you're bringing to the table and what you're receiving, if
you're asking for that, you're not asking for too much.

Speaker 3 (09:28):
But if you're.

Speaker 2 (09:29):
Asking for people to fill the gaps in your self worth,
maybe you do need to adapt your standards a little bit.
So ask yourself it does similarity feel like settling. If
it does, then maybe we need to work on ourselves
to be able to access people that we're actually craving.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
Yeah, it's so much of what you're doing about is
just having awareness and honesty. I know, like there's such
a need to be honest with ourselves.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
And it's harder, it's getting harder to become honest with
ourselves because we are bombarded with advice from tiktoks and
advice from you know, people that are giving advice about
never settle. You're somebody's dream girl or this is a
high value woman. So we think that if we get
anything less than what our algorithm is suggesting, we're settling,
when really, as long as we're matched in terms of
values and maturity and where we see ourselves in the future,

(10:12):
we're not truly settling. We're just finding somebody who's compatible.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
I mean, so many people on dating apps these days,
their common experience is being ghosted. And I'm sure you've
had a million people about feeling like, hey, we were
having a good chat and this person just disappeared. Yeah,
what would be your advice as someone who feels like
they've got ghosted?

Speaker 2 (10:31):
I would say, try and have the reasonable expectations. Unfortunately,
in the digital world, people see each other as disposable
and there's very minimal investments, so they don't always feel
like they owe somebody an explanation. And usually when they're ghosting,
it's either they've met alternatives or they might have just
been on the app to buy some time to heal
from a heartbreak. They're not truly looking for a partner,
They're just looking to kind of heal some or kind

(10:53):
of recover from some kind of stress that they're going
through as a coping mechanism. So if they're ghosting you,
try not to take it too personal. But if you've
been dating that person and then they ghost to chances
are they're hiding information. Ghosters regardless of their reason, they're
still poor communicators. And whatever the reason that they have
for ghosting you, the bigger reason is they're not great
at communicating. So try and reduce your attraction to people

(11:16):
who can't communicate.

Speaker 1 (11:17):
Well, what are the signs when you are dating someone
or you're starting to have those early conversations with people?
Do you think people miss but should be looking out
for that shows signs of a healthy, positive relationship.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I would say that sometimes the best predictor of future
relationships is their past relationships. And one thing I think
people kind of forget is that their patterns don't truly lie.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
And if you meet a man.

Speaker 2 (11:42):
Or a woman even in their late thirties early forties
have never been a committed relationship and you think everything's
going well and for some reason they ghost to you
or they're no longer in a committed Sometimes that's just
their patterns. Maybe they struggle with commitment, or if you
find that these people in previous relationships were always unfaithful
or in previous relationships it never really past three months.
Chances of people are their patterns, so just try and

(12:03):
pay doesn't mean you judge them completely, but pay attention to.
If they do fall off and they don't want to commit,
it might not be personal. It might just be their
pattern in previous relationships where they're just not used to
settling down. They don't know how to, they don't have
the skills and tools to, so they will find it
difficult other people because they've always been in four or
five year long relationships. They only have the habits for
long lasting relationships. So even when you've just started dating,

(12:25):
they'll kind of treat you like a girlfriend and it
can accelerate into a relationship a bit faster.

Speaker 3 (12:29):
So their previous patterns is something to pay attention to.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
And that second pattern can also be negative because you
could just get into a relationship too quickly with someone because.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
They're just in those habits. Yeah, they're not actually compatible,
they're just in those habits. Particularly if they've just come
out of a relationship. They might just be in the
habit of calling everywhere every day, arranging to see you
on the weekends, doing all of those things, which feels great,
But if they're not actually healed, it will turn into
love bombing because they're accelerating the residual feelings from their
previous relationship onto you, and it kind of accelerates the
relationship faster than what the psychological compatist ability is. So

(13:01):
you might find yourself catapulted into a relationship by somebody
who's just in that habit of doing that, and that
can also be a problem.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
What the top three things that people you guide and
coach and follow you and social media come to you
for and say their number one issue is.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
Well, for men, they do suffer from a lot of infidelity.
The women are cheating on the men a lot more
than I ever expected. My number one client is a
man who's just been cheated on by a woman. And
because there's not much talk about this on social media,
and there's not much talk about this in general, we're
almost programmed to think men cheat. So yeah, it's rare

(13:36):
that you find the idea of women chaging and men
don't actually talk to each other when they've been cheated on.
They kind of keep it to themselves because they're almost
embarrassed or ashamed. Wre as women, we can confide in
each other a bit more.

Speaker 1 (13:45):
So.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
My number one client tends to be the man that's
been cheated on or the woman that can't get the
man to commit. That tends to be the two feels
that I kind of have that seem to attract in
terms of clients. But men getting cheated on or men
not being masculine enough to tends to be the common
theme of my clients that keep coming back in.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
That Let's talk about both of those things because they're
both fascinating. So let's start with men not being masculine enough.
What does that mean? Because I think for a long
time we were hearing men are not feminine enough, or
men don't show their emotions, or men can't have emotional connection.
That's the issue. Yeah, but you're actually saying it's the opposite.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
It's actually the opposite, and they're genuine because look, we're
living in a time, particularly in a city like la
where men are almost divided into being too nice and
not masculine enough or toxic masculinity. There doesn't seem to
be a middle ground. And men who have black masculinity,
they have these three traits in common that I noticed. Firstly,
they grew up without a male role model. So what
may have happened is they grew up in a single

(14:44):
parent home and they saw their mum making all the decisions,
doing all the hard work, doing the emotional and physical labor,
and they think that's what women want. They think that's okay,
So when they go into relationships, they think that women
wants to make all the decisions, she wants to do
everything around the house, she wants to be in control,
when really they're looking for a man who's decision making
they trust enough for them to finally be able to relax.

(15:06):
But instead they think that that's what women want, So
when they get into relationships, they're not decisive, they're not
problem solving. They allow her to take complete lead, and
they almost follow her too much. And at first that
might be fine. Women might find that a bit attractive,
like okay, perfect is very docile and passive, but later
on they find that man exhausting, particularly when they have children.
They can't rely on him to make any decisions because

(15:28):
he's almost doesn't trust his own judgment and he doesn't
have that protective or provider instincts, So she kind of
has to end up doing a dual role. But the
biggest thing I find with men that lack masculinities is
they have a problem setting boundaries. And the effective way
to set a boundary is to find the perfect balance
between being stern and sensitive. What some men will be

(15:49):
is too stern, and they will want to set a
boundary and they get abusive. At the same time, they're like,
you can't do this name call, and they get too
much too stern. Other men are too sensitive, They get
too soft with it, so they don't know how to
set it. They allow any kind of behavior, and then
they kind of suppress what they're truly feeling. To get
the right balance, you have to be stern with what
you want from that person, but be really sensitive to

(16:09):
her needs and understand what she wants and remind her
how much you love her and you want to save
this relationship, and that's why you're setting the boundary. So
it might be something like if she's talking to an
X or something like that. You might be stern and
saying I don't feel comfortable that you're talking to an ex.
But the sensitive part is because I love you and
I really want this relationship to work, and I really
want us to have a healthy pattern. I don't want
any outside interference. So getting that balance is something that

(16:31):
guys that stuffer with masculinity don't get right. And if
they could just get that perfect balance of sternness and sensitivity,
they'll be able to set boundaries a lot better.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Yeah, you are right. I've seen the abusive for sure. Yeah,
I've seen a lot of men who feel like they
just want a submissive partner who does what they want
when they want, and.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
No love in there. There's no actual love there.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
They're setting all these boundaries, but they're aggressive with it.
They're not reminding her that they love her, they don't
even show her that they love her, but they want
her to obey him. That's not a way to set
a boundary. And other men are just two on the
soft side, and then she forgets what he actually truly
wants because he's kind of people pleasing. So finding that
balance is something that's become difficult.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Yeah, it's so interesting you said that, because I was
thinking about So my mom was the bread wren in
my house and she did everything for me and my sister,
and my dad was aloof he was kind of checked out.
And it's so interesting you said the male role model piece,
because two things happened for me. One thing was my
male models were monks who were really good men. And

(17:33):
then on the other side, I saw my mom's strain
and struggle and pain, and that made me want to
be a better man. Yeah, but that's because she was
vulnerable with me about him. Yeah. So, because I could
see that my mom didn't have an easy life, I
was convinced that when I got married, if I ever
got married, that I would never let my wife work out.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
But that's a really common trait that and the other
type of man experienced. Some men because they saw their
mom really struggle, they just want to relieve their partner
of all struggles. So the other that they can go
is that they want to save a lot of women,
And what ends up happening is that they really want
to make sure that she has no troubles and she
lives a life of complete comfort. The problem is when
you remove or struggle from anybody's life, they lose purpose

(18:15):
and they actually resent you for not allowing them to
problem solve themselves. So some men in that position what
they'll end up doing, and I'm not saying this was you,
but generally sometimes those men they want to protect their
partner from any kind of pain and stress, and in
the process of doing that, they can either become a
bit people pleasing or just solve every problem that she
could potentially have. Either or she doesn't actually get to

(18:36):
fulfill her own potential and it can lead to resentment.
So either way, unfortunately, the lack of Mailrod Morole model
has a significant impact on how they behave with women.

Speaker 1 (18:45):
Yeah. I love that perspective, and it's such a fine line,
and I would argue that probably while I was dating
I was that kind of guy. It was only when
I got married to RADI did I upgrade to actually
realizing that I needed my partner to also pursue her purpose,
discover what it was, understand it. And that took a while.

Speaker 3 (19:07):
Yeah, and did you find that? Do you have that habit?

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Because a lot of men in that position. Sometimes I'll
choose women that are heavily, heavily traumatized, or they choose
to women that I've never had any work and no work,
or they might choose somebody who is just really struggling
with it some addictions, and they like that because then
they're like, I can just show you and help you
and help you recover. But the problem is sometimes when
those women do recover, they want a man with higher

(19:30):
self esteem, somebody who wouldn't tolerate so much of that
negative behavior.

Speaker 3 (19:34):
So they actually, wow, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:35):
So sometimes I'll meet men who like, she had this addiction,
she was an alcoholic, she was traumatized from sexual abuse.
I helped her get through all of it. But when
she's recovered, she's actually looking at him like, why did
you tolerate all of that? Why did you select this?
There must be something wrong with you. I actually want
somebody who's got a higher selection process. Now, sometimes they
can lose that woman that they have, and women suffer
from this as well. They think that if I just

(19:56):
show him I'm consistent, caring and love him, I'm getting
through the addiction. When he finally recovers, he actually looks
for somebody with higher self esteem, and they end up
all that investment can sometimes go to waste.

Speaker 1 (20:08):
So isn't that so heartbreaking? It is because that was
love in its best form, if someone was patient while
you healed and they supported you, Like, aren't we moving
away from love if we leave someone who is there
for us in our darkest times?

Speaker 2 (20:23):
They are, but sometimes they don't know if you were
there because you love them or you're seeking their approval,
and a lot of people sometimes they are approval seeking
and master that through helping they will help that person financially,
help that person with every single problem that they have.
But there's an unconscious contract that the more I help you,
the more you will love me in return. And sometimes

(20:44):
we can see through it when it's not genuine. And
when that person can see through that this was all
done with a contract assigned to it that one day
you will then be lawyal, loving and committed to me,
they didn't agree to sign that contract. So when they're healed,
they can become ungrateful to the person who help them.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
Yeah, that makes so much sense.

Speaker 2 (21:00):
So it just depends what the unconscious contractor is when
you're helping people.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
I love that unconscious contract. Yeah, you're so right that
if you're doing it just to say, look, I was
there for you. Yeah, I was there the whole time.
You should love me more. Now people sense that. People
sense that, how do you communicate to someone that you're
there for the right reasons?

Speaker 2 (21:16):
You have those boundaries, so how you communicate Because I
suffer from that as well. I like to be super
super helpful because then I'm like, I'm soor irreplaceable if
I do all these things, I'm sorry replaceable, right, And
there's unconscious ego attached to that. It's like, look, how
wonderful I am because I saw you through all your
financial woes and all this stuff. But really the best
way to communicate that you're there for love and not
for approval is that you still have deal breakers. Where

(21:39):
people go wrong is that they are literally a doormat.
There's nothing you can do that will make them ever leave.
Whereas where you're still loving but you're not for approval
seeking is there's a limit to how much you can take,
and if there's not at least gratitude, respect, honor, and loyalty,
you will leave.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Whereas if you have no.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Deal breakers whatsoever and you're just consistently loving this, and
who is just taking from you, It signals low self
esteem to that person, and it signals an incorrect attachment.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You know what. I love talking to you because this
just everything you're talking about is like getting into the
real like Nuce. Like there's this gray layer of in
between of all these ideas and that's really what makes
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you to our sponsors. Now let's dive back in. As

(23:56):
I'm listening to you, the question that's coming to my
mind is we all seem to think we know why
men cheat on women. Why do women cheat on men?

Speaker 2 (24:05):
I've gotten in a lot of trouble for saying this
in the perst. No soa Again, Usually in my experience
of when women cheat on men, it's not so much
that you know he's done something toxic. I've met women
who are in toxic relationships and stayed loyal the whole time.
It's simply when he lacks masculinity, they are most likely
to cheat. I don't actually see women often cheating on
a toxic man. They are actually quite loyal to him.

(24:27):
They're more likely to cheat on the man that is
too passive, too naive, and too people pleasing. And the
reason for that is because there's something about that man
that is so soft, so naive that makes her lose
sexual attraction. Something about the fact that he can't spot
red flag, something about the fact that he believes everything,
he doesn't question anything, he's afraid to assert his boundaries,

(24:50):
makes a woman crave somebody with a bit more masculinity.
So it's not so much that they're cheating on him
because he's so bad to her, Because I've met so
many women saying he's wonderful man. He treats me really,
really well. I'm just not in love with him. And
usually the reason why she's not in love with him
is because he's not protective enough. And what some men

(25:11):
will provide, but what we mean by protective is she
might be out all day with her ex boyfriend and
he won't get protective and say Hey, babe, I don't
feel comfortable, or she might be doing, you know, disrespect
to him or anything like that, and he doesn't stand
up for himself. And in those moments when a man
doesn't stand up for himself, she loses that respect and
then she crosses new boundaries because mainly she believes he

(25:33):
will stay regardless. And when we give our partners the
belief that regardless of how you behave, I will forgive
and maintain consistent, I'll love you regardless, we think we're
showing them unconditional love. But what they'll end up doing
is thinking that we are going to tolerate unconditional disrespect,
and they end up just pushing our boundaries more and more.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
So what does he do?

Speaker 2 (25:52):
So what he does is make sure he's aware of
when he's being disrespected. And we naturally human beings in general,
and I think this as men and women. If you
ever want to prevent yourself from getting cheated on, it's
not so much that you have to spot the red
flags in the other person. Sometimes you can become a
person who never gets cheated on no matter what relationship
we go, and you can become immunized to it. And

(26:13):
the way to become immunized being cheated on is number one.
Understanding your partner's true needs, Understanding what they actually need
in a relationship and asking yourself, can I commit to that?
So some people be in a relationship with somebody who's
got a really high sex stripe, they just can't meet
that need.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
If you know you can't, at some point that relationship
is going to suffer.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
Or sometimes you might meet a partner who really needs
financial support and you can't meet that need. At some
point that relationship will break down. So understand your partner's
true needs. The second thing is knowing that if they
did cheat on you, you would leave. If you give
the signals to your partner that you wouldn't leave no
matter what they do, and you don't meet the needs
of each other, chances out that relationship will let end

(26:51):
in infidelity. But if you meet each other's needs and
you have a rule, both of you have a particular rule,
like if it did happen, I'm going to leave, There's
no two ways about it.

Speaker 3 (27:00):
So your partner won't take that risk.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
They only take that risk when they believe unconsciously you're
going to accept their behavior regardless of what they do,
and the signals of that come earlier on. So it
might be early signals that you catch that they're still
on Tinder.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
You forgive them.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
You go through their phone, you find that they're still
talking to other people. You forgive them. You forgive the
footsteps too many times. I'm not saying you've become toxic
and don't forgive anything, but you let them know that
this behavior is not something I tolerate. You can do it,
no problem, but I'm not going to stick around for it.
When they learn that you mean what you say, they'll
naturally improve. But if they see that you make a
big kuha, you screamage out, but you actually tolerate more

(27:33):
and more disrespect. You give them the signal that you'll
accept any behavior, and they start taking more risks if
it's the wrong person.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
What happens when someone is not in an abusive way,
but they are disrespecting you. You make them aware that
they're disrespecting you in a assertive way, but they keep
doing it.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
What do you do when you can't change others, You
have to change yourself, And the only thing you can
do is withdraw and remove access utunately, that's the only
way to teach people how to treat you correctly, is
you remove the perks of being with you. And if
they don't, if they and some people are scared to
do that because they worry, then I'll lose them. But
you'll lose a person who's going to continuously get more disrespectful.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
We're so scared of being alone, yeah, and we're so
scared of not being with someone that I think we
continue to accept that disrespect.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
I know, but sometimes it's more lonely staying with the
wrong person. And this is why I think having a
good social network is as important as having a good
healthy relationship. A healthy relationship without a social network will
lead to codependency. But your social network is so so
important because what it does is as a relationship starts
to fall apart, that fear of walking away when you

(28:43):
need to is lessened. But when you don't have a
social network, as that relationship starts to fall apart, you
will tolerate more and more abuse because you're just so
afraid of being alone, which we all are. We all are,
But having a good social network acts as a buffer
for that.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah. I mean, when I'm listening to you talk about
the type of man that women want, and the fact
that if he's too much of a pushover, too sensitive,
too much of a you know, walk over, Yeah, they
lose respect.

Speaker 2 (29:10):
They may cheat, they made chea And from my work,
what I've noticed is women fall in love in three stages,
and if any of those stages are missing, the relationship
will either break down very quickly or it break down
very slowly, but it will break down. And I call
it the three a's, and I have like a program
on it. The first thing is women have to be
truly attracted to their man in order for the relationship
to actually turn into love. At some stage, there has

(29:33):
to be physical attraction because naturally that fades with time,
and you know, we so much familiarity. If we don't
have that to begin with, it can become very difficult
to start a romantic relationship. This is why we have
so many friends, so many male friends, because if we're
not truly attracted him, even if he's wonderful, we can't
start a romantic relationship. So I always say it starts
with attraction. The second stage for a woman to truly

(29:54):
fall in love with the man, she has to admire
who he is and what that means is with or
without her influence. He's just a man that she admires.
He's got a great job, he's got a good network
of friends. He's got lots of self control. He's not
an addict, and he's not addicted. He's got good level
of self control in terms of money, his body, his
sexual behavior. It's not all over the place. So she
truly admires him. And then once she's attracted and admires him,

(30:15):
then she needs adoration from him. He needs to show her,
adore her, reassure her all of those things. If she
gets all three of those chances out, her relationship won't
break down. But if any of those are missing, maybe
he adores her, absolutely adores her, but she's not truly
attracted to him, at some stages in the relationship will
break down because that adoration will feel like neediness. Or
let's say, for example, she's truly attracted to him and

(30:37):
he's giving her lots of reassurance, but he's not an
admirable man. He's not working, he's not achieving, he's not
doing a lot, even though she might love him, And
it might be a slow breakdown, but some stage she'll
need someone she can admire, particularly when she has children.
So without those three ingredients, I don't think women realize this,
but if any of those are missing, they will some
stage lose interest.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
That's a great three step formula. And I think so
much of the time we get so hooked on the
attraction path. Yes, yeah, that we overvalue it compared to
the other two. So if he's not six foot four
and he's not got you know, a particular colored hair
or whatever, it is, right, like, the physical appearance becomes

(31:19):
so much more overvalued than the other two, or the
admiration piece becomes so overvalued. So if he's not making
enough money, he's not how do you kind of look
at them as are they equal?

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Are they over They're actually equal, They're actually equally. If
you have lots of physical attraction, you admire him lots,
but he's not showing you any admiration.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
That will literally turn into a toxic relationship.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
You'll be begging for hugs and kisses and he won't
give it to you. You'll be begging for him to
give you compliments. He won't give it to you, but
you won't. You'll be stuck because you're like, I know,
he's a good man. So many women come to me
and say, I know he's a good man. He's got
a great job. He's such a he's so good at
his work. All his friends love him. She admires him,
and she's attracted him, but he doesn't adore her.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
She suffers a lot. He will start rejecting her sexually,
doesn't remind us she's beautiful. She feels so.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Invisible around him, but she's stuck because she's like on paper,
he's a great man. So she's got two of those
ingredients other times, and this is where the nice guy suffers.
She's got so much adoration, so much reassurance. He loves her,
he adores her, he's a good man, but she's just
not attracted to him. And she's pushing herself to really
love him, but she just simply can't find the physical attraction.

(32:27):
And then she kind of thinks gaslights herself and be like,
am I an evil person? How can I not love him?
There's nothing wrong with you, it's just those three ingredients
if they're not there. And I know it sounds like
we're being super fussy, but it doesn't have to be
super fussy. My husband's no oil painting it's not that.
It's just the fact that I am attracted. It's as
simple as that. And it doesn't mean he's cured cancer.
I just admire the person he is.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
That's all it is. He doesn't have to be extreme.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
It's just that I've got attraction and admiration and the
adoration you just need your level of that. Missing those
ingredients is either a quick end because it will be
toxic he's just not you the love you need, or
it'll be a slow one because you're not getting you're
not truly attracted. But either way, it will break down.

Speaker 1 (33:05):
I think the key part of that is, though, what
you just said in regards to your own husband is
it's about how you feel, that's all. And I think
the challenge, going back to what we were talking about earlier,
is so many of our expectations of our partner are
based on like do my friends like them, Do they
have a good, you know, online presence? Are they successful
at their job compared to And it's like you can

(33:28):
only look at it through your angle, yeah, only because
you could compare forever and you're no matter who how
successful your partner is, they'd always be second to someone
else out there.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
In the world, especially in this day and age, it
always like, not everybody's going to have a husband that
is great at writing poems and singing songs about them,
but he still adores you in his way, and that
works for you. You don't know, and you know sometimes
some girls will be like, oh my god, you go
fifty to fifty with your husband. I could never But
if that works in your marriage and you're both doing
the best you can, that's perfect.

Speaker 3 (33:55):
Like, it's totally fine.

Speaker 2 (33:56):
You don't have to compare yourself to the standards that
have been hijacked by TikTok me. Just as long as
it works for you, no problem. But if you miss
those ingredients, unfortunately, at some stage you'll realize that the
relationship is not quite working.

Speaker 3 (34:08):
And doesn't mean you become extra fussy.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
It just means you pay attention to this and you
figure out which of those is missing and try and
work on that. Maybe the adoration is missing, try and
work on that, maybe the attraction is missing. There's nothing
wrong with telling your partner, babe, i'd love it if
we start working out together. There's nothing wrong with doing that.
But if we miss those things and then we ignore
the resolution unfortunate, our relationships will suffer.

Speaker 1 (34:28):
I think that's my favorite checklistuff ever.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
It just it's simple, but it works.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's simple, but it's really powerful because it's not just
a random checklist. It's things you could actually observe in
how you feel. And you're right, it's all three. It's
just all three because often the admiration piece just overclouds
the other stuff. And I always say to someone, you're
not marrying someone's resume. Yeah, you're not dating someone's bank balance.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
And because I live in to buy, I see this
a lot. They'll meet a CEO, he's an entrepreneur and
he pays all the bill and he's fantastic. He really
is fantastic at that, but either she's not attracted him
or he's too busy to give her any adoration. At
some stage, you're crave it. If we could just do
one and just live a relationship on one, I would
tell women to just focus on one. Some men are
better at doing one. They just physically attracted and they're

(35:15):
kind of happy with that, but it's an empty libe.
I think for women, we really crave all three of them.
Outside of that, honestly, it doesn't matter if he buys
your flowers every day, if you write superms, if you
make tiktoks with you or not, they really don't matter.
Just have those three you'll be fine, God willing.

Speaker 1 (35:29):
So those are the three a's for women. What about
for men?

Speaker 2 (35:32):
It's the three l's I call it for men. The
first one is they do need some lust. I know
it sounds really shallow, but if they're not sexually attracted
to you, no matter how wonderful you are, no matter
what the relationship is like, especially in this day and
age where they're saturated with porn, they will shift their
attention elsewhere. So there has to be some level of lust.
And what I mean by lust is they're attracted to you,
but this sexual connection between, this synergy in that area.

(35:56):
The second thing, and I think men don't realize, is
that we actually need They need some lady but invested
in their partner. And what I mean by that is
emotional and financial labor invested in their partners. Some men
will think, oh, she's successful, she doesn't need any financial investment,
or she doesn't need any emotional she's strong.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
They just need it.

Speaker 2 (36:13):
The moment they invest in a woman, they're more likely
to see that relationship go through. If he's not taking
her anywhere and not doing anything for her, if the
relationship ends, he's not bothered. Basically, if he's invested in her,
he's taken on, he places, he's bought a few things,
he's done, he's invested emotionally in financially to her, he's
more likely to want to see that relationship work out.

Speaker 3 (36:30):
And the final thing is the loyalty.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
If they don't become loyal and the woman and there's
no loyalty in that relationship and they've got their options open,
they're not truly in love. They need those three things
in order for them to truly be in love. They
need to first need lust, have some lust, put some
labor into that relationship, and then they need to be loyal.
If they say that I'm in love with you, but
I'm not loyal truly, they're missing something. They need it reciprocated.

(36:54):
If you're not loyal to them and they still love you,
that's actually they're stuck in the lust stage. They need
reciprocated loyalty in order for it to be truly a
healthy relationship, and then they're fine.

Speaker 3 (37:03):
After that. We don't care about that they'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Yeah, no, no, it makes a lot of sense. I'm
thinking about just I feel like you've totally reframed.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
What can I ask you though, because I might be
wrong for a man's perspective, is that correct or not?

Speaker 3 (37:22):
Really? Is there something that you would say that you
need a little bit more or less of?

Speaker 1 (37:26):
Let me think on that.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
It's a great question, because what I'm trying to say
is that because sometimes I meet men and they meet
a wonderful woman, They've put a lot of energy, invested
a lot into her. They're very loyal to each other.
But because there's no attraction left, of course, they turn
to pornography too much. And that is a very slippery slope.
And that's why a little bit they need some lust
in their first and foremost before those other properties can

(37:49):
be valued in a woman.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
Well, I mean it goes back to what we were
saying earlier. You told us why women cheat. Yeah, this
is why men cheat.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, it's a big factor. And I you know, I
know we like to think that people cheat simply because
they're narcissists and simply because they're like that. There are
some men that come that way. There are some men
that genuinely, no matter who they're with, no matter what
the relationship is, they're too broken to be faithful. They
feel uncomfortable being faithful. They're going to cheat on everyone.
But a lot of the time they are deprived of

(38:16):
the intimacy. Yeah, either because they just didn't choose a
woman that was attracted to them to begin with, or
they ruin the intimacy by inviting too much pornography or
alternatives into relationship and now they've got no intimacy left
with their partner. But when they do lose the intimacy,
they lose the motivation to be loyal. They think they're
more likely to be loyal to a women that gives

(38:37):
them good intimacy than a woman that gives them a
good life because they think why their motivation to be
loyal decreases as their sexual intimacy dies in their relationship,
so they're more likely to be open to it. So
I always tell people, try and guard your marriage by
embedding the intimacy in it as regularly as you can.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
No, I think you've hit the core root things that
people are looking for, and how they show up is
always different. Yes, And I think that's why I was
saying earlier, it feels like you've hit the core at
the root of what's needed trying to I don't think
you've missed anything. I'm just sitting with it. But I
think anything that I would say are only things that
are part of those Like, for example, you know the

(39:16):
loyalty piece includes respect, like both people are looking for respect.
I think that the loyalty police includes like they believe
in your goals and you believe in there's like there's
root causes, and I.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Think sometimes those women. We can remove the labor part,
hoping that he would think that we're so low maintenance
he won't put any investment in us. Roby so easy,
we become the hook up girl. So what I mean
by that is, if we remove his ability to put
labor into us, we don't say to him like, let's
go on dates. We don't say like, look, when are
we getting married. There's no emotional we don't burden him
with any problems, and we think, no, let's.

Speaker 3 (39:49):
Just be cool.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
We think that being cool eventually he will lead to
us as commitment and he'll become loyal to us. Actually,
he has to put the labor in in order for
us to see see as something worth being law too,
So if we deprive them of that, we actually are
enhancing the chances of us just being a hook up,
short term fling.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, that's how you avoid being.

Speaker 2 (40:07):
The avoid being the fling is making it so easy
for them, And I know it's so tempting because sometimes
you're thinking, he's such a lovely guy, really attracted to him,
And if I insist on a few dates, orr, if
I insist on like maybe going away together, maybe I'll
lose him. But you'll only lose people who are not
willing to invest in you anyway.

Speaker 3 (40:24):
So unfortunately, being too easy it can work.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
I'm not saying it never works, but at the same time,
it doesn't motivate them in any way, shape or form
to actually make this serious because they've got it so easy.

Speaker 1 (40:33):
What's the difference between the woman a man dates and
the woman a man marries.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
I would say the key difference is the element of
stability and responsibility. And what I mean by that is
being with a man who is super social, who's a
big drinker and has got all these friends in busy
or day every day and got this amazing life.

Speaker 3 (40:51):
Is great for dates.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
You get to go on great vacations with him, You
get to go to red, nice restaurants and so on
and so forth. But when we get when it comes
to getting married, if you don't look for a man
that a lot of self control, you will really suffer.
And what I mean by this is that he needs
to have self control in terms of his sexual discipline.
He needs self control in terms of what he puts
into his body, even the food he eats everything, And
he needs self control when it comes to his money.

(41:12):
If in those areas he's got no self control for dating,
no problem, it doesn't matter. Yeah, he can be sexually wild,
he can spend all his money, no problem. You can
enjoy a great life when you marry a man like that.
Every day's anxiety, every single day's anxiety because his lack
of self control will lead to lack of self respect,
and as a result, he'll have such low self esteem
that you can't trust him to make decisions. But men

(41:33):
with lots of self control, you can trust that they
make great decisions. You can trust their judgment, and you
can finally start a family or start your goals. But
you can't do that with men who have got no
self control.

Speaker 1 (41:43):
Do you know what the amazing thing is that as
I was listening to you, I was thinking about, like,
men don't learn that anywhere. No, they it's so hard,
Like if I never lived as a monk, I wouldn't
have any sense.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
What's your biggest lesson? Were living with money?

Speaker 1 (41:55):
I mean a big part of it is self control,
like don't you don't you eat what you're giving? You
celibate while you're there. There's complete focus in determination on
the path. And so there were so many amazing mental
mastery tools that I gained in terms of discipline an
organization that I don't know where else I would have

(42:16):
learned them.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
Can you excel as a man without self control? Do
you think?

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I don't think so.

Speaker 3 (42:19):
It's an impossibility, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (42:21):
That's what you're saying. I just feel bad because I
can't think of.

Speaker 2 (42:26):
It's the opposite that actually we're told men are being
told that be with as many women as you can.

Speaker 3 (42:30):
We have zero.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Sexual discipline, and you know, you can kind of eat whatever,
and there's always a zembic, so don't worry about it
or this.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
We're actually being told to reduce.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Our like our self control and replace it with hedonism
follow your impulses and you only live once.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Just do it.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
That kind of mentality when it comes to drinking, when
it comes to food, when it comes to money, to spend, spend,
spend all these things. Unfortunately, we're pushing men into a
slow and steady depression because we're reducing the importance of
self control and replacing it with self indult audience. And
that is a slow suicide for a man. He will
only start to respect himself when he can control himself.
And they're only when he can control himself he can

(43:08):
then excel. And if you pick a man who can't
control himself, you'll spend the rest of your life trying
to control him, and it will bring out the worst
side of you. You'll become a mother to a child
you'd never wanted to adopt.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Wow, that might drop. They're so powerful. It's as I'm
listening to you, I'm just sitting here thinking how much
there is a need in helping men realize the mental mastery, sense, control,
discipline are what's going to find the right person. But
I think the problem is men also believe that if

(43:42):
they're the life of the party, if they're the big spender,
if they're the big guy at the that's what's going
to attract the right person.

Speaker 2 (43:50):
Attract a chaotic person. There are women, lots of women
that were like that. There are lots and lots of
women that were like that. You're a big spender, you're
spending on bottles, you're going drinking all night and or
the life and soul of the party. But it will
attract women who want a fast life. Dome probably don't
want to invest in you. They're probably not going to
be there when you're suffering and you're on a downward spiral.
My reason I'm so strict on men when it comes

(44:11):
to self discipline and sexual discipline in particular, is we
live in a time where men don't really get a
say in when a baby is born. It's not really
up to them if that child stays. And all women
have the right way. I don't know what it's like
in America, but usually we get to control if we
want to keep the baby or don't want to keep
the baby, and as a result, we get some autonomy.
If it's the wrong man perfect we don't have to
suffer the consequences. But with men, if you get the

(44:32):
wrong person and you don't have a good relationship, and
then you bring children into that mix, you create a
generation of broken children, and you.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Are more responsible for that.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, because you have to be more careful than women do.
Because we still have autonomy. We can get rid of
a child if we need to. You can't really have
that much say in it. So you have to be
so disciplined with who you are laying down with, and
if you're I know men who have ruined their families
just because they couldn't control themselves sexually, or just because
they couldn't have that right conversation with their wife and say, look,
I'm missing the intimacy, Maybe we should just part Instead,

(45:01):
they just light a flame into their own home and
then suffer the consequences. So sexual discipline is a really
really important one for men, followed by financial discipline, and
then of course in terms of your food and your
health and stuff like that I think is really important.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
What's your take on women sleeping with men too early.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
I think it's really difficult for women because a lot
of women do want to preserve themselves. They don't want
to jump into sleeping with men so early. But what
they're finding in this day and age is if they
don't lead with that. The men don't even want to
know them anymore. Men have no longer wanted to invest
in getting to know them psychologically or anything like that.
So they're almost stuck between am I just going to
stay lonely forever? Or do I end up just sleeping

(45:37):
with men? Or I'm not even that keen on but
I have to stay in the game. So they are
really stuck. But what I would say is, try not
to accelerate your physical intimacy above the psychological intimacy. You
can sleep within that same day, but if you've really
had strong psychological intimacy, you know where you two are going.
You are in a good place with each other. Do
whatever you want. But if you don't have that, all

(45:57):
the sex will do is enhance your own insecurity, to
enhance your own anxieties about the relationship, and then it
will leave you dampened into the dating market when you
go back into it, and negativity with the new man
and the new man, so it just lowers your own
self esteem. So try and accelerate the psychological intimacy first.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
How would you define psychological intimacy versus like, we're just
excited by being.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
To your chemistry, Yeah, it's difficult. Chemistry is how much
you're enjoying the person's company. You can have great chemistry
with everybody. Psychological intimacy is how much you're similar in
your goals and values. So how similar I can enjoy
the company of somebody really easily. No, it's not a problem.
But you might realize that they're still you know, they're
still parting a lot, maybe they're still on drugs, maybe
they're doing that. But psychological intimacy is do we have

(46:41):
the same vision of where we see ourselves in five, six,
ten years time, and are we both aligned in the
values that will take us there. And if we've got
an alignment, you're probably quite intimate. If you haven't got
an alignment, you can enjoy them, but chances are it
won't be a long lasting relationship.

Speaker 1 (46:55):
Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from
our sponsors, and now let's get back to the episode.
I like the idea that physical intimacy should follow the
pace of psychological intimacy because then there's actual closeness. Yeah,
and you're not using physical closeness as a substitute for

(47:16):
actually having a deeper, meaningful connection.

Speaker 3 (47:18):
And a lot of people do that.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Sometimes they got with somebody they're so physically intimate, and
then they're discovering things that they have nothing in common
with each other. But because they've now slept together, they're
kind of prolonging this relationship longer than it needs to.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
It's almost like dragging a dead horse.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
So if they can accelerate, And I know, it's difficult
because it's hard competing with men that push for it,
or we're living in a world where men will ask
for pictures straight away and stuff like that, So it's
hard for the woman that is. And I always say this,
it's really difficult for the woman with good intentions to
find a man in this day and age. The woman
that's not prepared to lead sexually and lead with that,
she finds herself being overlooked by the women that are

(47:53):
and so and a bit like some men then maybe
they don't want to lead with finances, but they find
themselves being overlooked. So the people who are actually going
into relationships with the correct intentions are finding it the
most difficult.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, it's hard.

Speaker 3 (48:05):
It's so hard for them.

Speaker 1 (48:07):
And you shouldn't lower your standards.

Speaker 2 (48:09):
You shouldn't and but I can see why people do.
I don't want to be judgmental because I can completely understand.
I don't know what it's like to be single in
this day and age, and I can imagine. So at
some point, you're just like, if I keep having these
high standards, I'm never going to meet somebody. What I
would say is keep your intrinsic standards high and your
extrinsic ones low. And what I mean by that is,
keep your standards of how you like to be treated
emotionally really high. Do you like to expact? Do you

(48:31):
like labels? Do you like regular dates? Keep that high?
Or regular time together doesn't even have to be dates,
Keep that high. But keep your extrinsic values like does
he take me on holidays?

Speaker 3 (48:40):
Is he going to buy me?

Speaker 1 (48:40):
This?

Speaker 3 (48:41):
Is it?

Speaker 2 (48:41):
Got mis sent me flowers? Keep those low. They're not
relevant in the long run.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Everything you're saying is in my venuon is spot on.
It's such great advice, and I really hope everyone who's
listening is taking notes because there's so much that you're
sharing that I think you're so clear in your approach.
I think it's really practical. I think it will connect.
But I've heard you say before that if someone cheats
on you, it's partly your fault. I do say that,

(49:07):
and I wanted to hear your.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah, I know that sounds terrible, and I say this
particularly with you know, men especially, I'm like, it's always
were in fault. And the reason I say that's most
cheaters come with smoking guns on the first day. There's
always some signal that their behavior was not transparent. And
whenever you catch them cheating, usually so they say, I
always knew because from day one they were like this.

(49:30):
And I always say people usually don't lie. They might
say lies, but they show you their red flags pretty
much from day one. And it might have been that
they were in a relationship when you met them, or
it might have been that you caught them in a
few lives when you first got with them, you would
have caught some signs that this person is capable of
deeper lies. And when I'm not saying you should always
look for the bad. But when we keep ignoring poor behavior,

(49:52):
what ends up happening is we are becoming distant from
the truth. We are going into denial. I actually don't
have a problem even if your partner is cheating no problem.
You have to have radical, radical relationship.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
With the truth.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
And there are some women out there that are mistresses.
They're so happy in that role because they know the truth.
They know that he goes there spend time with his wife.
I'll see when I see him. Truth is really important.
So the more you align yourself with truth, the more
you won't actually get blindsided. But when you start missing
red flags again and again, you haven't been intimate in months,
somebody is not coming home one time. Nothing's adding up,

(50:24):
and you keep making excuses. Unfortunately, we create the environment
for these types of people to flourish. It's almost better
that you protect your own home and protect your own sanity.
Doesn't mean you become accusatory, but you know that your
treatment is not what you appreciate. And if they continue
like that, they don't have to cheat. The behavior is
enough for you to start setting a boundary and the
behaviors you don't need. Because some cheaters will say, well,

(50:46):
you can't prove anything. Cheatas will always want you to
catch them red handed, you as the person, should say,
I don't need red handed evidence. I can see your
behaviors not treating me rightly. Stop them there before they
get to the point where they're disrespecting you more and more.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
That's where the gas line comes in.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, that's where the gaslighting.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
Yes, people get gas They.

Speaker 3 (51:03):
Do get gaslighted really heavily.

Speaker 2 (51:04):
And this is even as a psychologist, and you know,
when I'm as a therapist, and this is where I
have to be a lot more empathetic because I've had
clients there that were like, she keeps accusing me, and
they're so like convincing that I'm like, you need to
stop accusing him. I don't, and then she'll take to me.
Afterwards I found out he was having an affair the
whole time. So the gas lighting is very very real.
But the feeling they give you is always true. So

(51:26):
they'll lie to you or their words their lips will
be learned. But you're feeling that got instinct that something's
not right or they're lying. To try and pay attention
to that, and even if you never get evidence, that
feeling is partly your partner's responsibility to help soothe those anxieties,
not make them worse. So if you have that feeling
and they're just like maybe like whatever you need, like
to make you feel better, I have no problem. I've

(51:46):
got nothing to hide. But if they get less and
less transparent, try and pay attention to that.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
What I'm hearing from you is, if you pay attention
to the signs that you're seeing, you don't let yourself
be in a position where you're taking advantage I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
I'm saying, No, your partner better than they know themselves.
At the moment they start changing, you spot it quicker than.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
They can so.

Speaker 2 (52:06):
And I'm sure you have this with Radi where you
probably know her so so well that it would be
difficult for her to have a double life without you.

Speaker 3 (52:12):
You know her behaviors.

Speaker 2 (52:13):
Or where she moves, how she talks, how she kisses you,
everything you pay close attention.

Speaker 3 (52:18):
We pay so much attention to your partner.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
It's quite difficult for them to live a whole double
life without you catching on. So try and stay at
tuned as much as you can.

Speaker 1 (52:25):
Yeah, every relationship has a rhythm as a pattern, and
when the pattern's off, you check in. I think one
of the things I see in relationship struggling is, especially
as they get longer term, is we don't recommit, so
life changes. Right. Me and Radi had a dating life
when we got married. We had to recommit to a
different way of living. When we got married. Then we
lived in New York, we had to recommit to a

(52:47):
different way of living. We moved to la different way
of living. It's almost like I've dated so many different
people in radi as in, she's evolved, she's changed and
saying back at me. Probably to some degree, but I
think we don't I keep when our partner changes, Yeah,
and we almost want them to stay the same. Or
I've heard maybe you say before that we almost want

(53:07):
our The guy wants the woman to never change, yeah,
and the woman wants the man to change.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Yeah. That's the problem.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
One thing I say is that some men are committed
to their marriage. And what that means is they're committed
to that woman as she changes, as they change, is
they commit to each other. They're loyal to the person
that they've they married, and they will stay loyal forever.
Some men are just loyal to the woman they fell
in love with. As long as she stays exactly like
the person they met, they'll stay loyal. When she starts
to change, they'll get more and more disloyal because they

(53:36):
don't accept change. You just have to decide what type
of person are you are? Are you deciding to commit
to the marriage, and actually what that means is following
them through the evolution, getting to know them at every stage,
and staying.

Speaker 3 (53:47):
Loyal throughout it.

Speaker 2 (53:48):
But if you're somebody who's just committing to the person
you fell in love with, the moment that person starts
to change, which they inevitably will, your eyes will start
to wonder. So it might be good to have that
conversation with each other, which one are we? And can
we try and shift to being loyal to the marriage
rather than just each other, so that we can help
each other evolve and remain consistent while we do change.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
What can a woman do to make sure a man
doesn't she on her.

Speaker 2 (54:10):
Have a willingness to walk away when she's being disrespected.
That's all it really takes. When men know that you
will always be there for them. You're there, ride or die.
You accept any kind of disrespect. They've been abusive, you
accept it. They've been coming home late, you accept it.
They are talking to other people, you accept it. And
you always make excuses for them. I know you love him,
and I know your love is unconditional, but respects shouldn't

(54:32):
be unconditional. Yeah, she shouldn't be treated disrespectfully regardless of
that behavior. And when and I know human behavior, we
should appreciate the person that is loyal to us. We
should appreciate the person who loves us regardless.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
We just don't. Unfortunately, we just don't.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
So when they see that your love is totally unconditional,
they will start abusing that love that you have for them.
But when they learn that you love them, you're very
loyal to them, you care about them, but that doesn't
give them a license to abuse you or hurt you,
then they are more like to stay in line. So
I think the thing that prevents them from truly cheating
is knowing that you have a willingness to walk away

(55:06):
and you don't tolerate this level of disrespect, they start
to show you a.

Speaker 3 (55:10):
Bit more respect.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
And I've noticed so many men who have cheated on
their wives, and they were.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Felt no guilt, zero guilt.

Speaker 2 (55:16):
The moment she filed for divorce, they were besides themselves.
So for the year that they were cheating, they were
having the time of their life. The day she filed
for divorce, besides themselves, crying hysterically because at some point
on conscious level, they thought she would never actually do that.
The day she did that is when the realization all
sunk in. So when the person knows that you're not
too afraid to take that room, they're more likely to
be respectful.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Yeah, And it's not threatening people with it, it's actually
doing it for real, just once. Because I find like
me and Raddy made it real early in our relationship
that we would never throw around the word divorce, we'd
never throw around the word break up, We'd never throw
around any of these words that if you were to
say it, you'd have to actually back it up. Then
you'd actually have to be there. Because I didn't want

(55:57):
to be in a relationship where these things were used
as level yeah, or used as kind of ammunition to
get a reaction out of someone.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
It's only used when you actually, God forbid need it.
But I always to say that one of my vows
that I recommend to my clients. I know it sounds negative,
is we can sit there and say I'm going to
love you forever, I'm going to be loyal forever. Probably
the more realistic vow to say to each other, not
even just marriages. As a couple is if and when
my feelings start to change, I will communicate it with
you and that way we can work on the relationship.

(56:25):
Where people go wrong is as in when their feelings change,
they don't they avoid communication and they outsource their happiness
from somewhere else, or they not, they numb their pain
through a coping mechanism. The better vow to take is
if and when my feelings ever change, instead of hurting
you and disrespect to you, I will come straight to
you and we can try and fix it.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
And if we can't fix it.

Speaker 2 (56:43):
We will separate on respectful terms. But doing things that
cause permanent damage is just not acceptable.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
Yeah, it's it's such a fine line because, yeah, we
sometimes like to in an argument in the heat of it,
you'll pretend to say and that that person still knows
that you don't mean it, just making it up to
get a reaction, and it doesn't have any values.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
It's more of a cry for help and we've all
done it, all done it. But it's a seriousness of
like if you go to I'm not saying have that
divorce word ever, but have deal breakers. What I mean
by deal breakers is one or two things that if
this happened in my relationship. There's just no negotiation. It
might be hitting, it might be cheating. Is there's a

(57:25):
deal breaker? If you eat sense that our partner has
no deal breakers, They're more likely to attract narcissistic partners.
They're more likely to attract abusers, they're more likely to
attract takers. But if you come with a clear deal breakers,
people can sense that confidence, and usually you don't attract
people who are going to do your deal breakers.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Anyway, if a man cheats on a woman, can they recover?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
I think it depends on the reason. I still think
it's difficult. The reason I say it's difficult is that
it becomes a point of contention pretty much permanently. I
would say you can only forgive a person if the
cause of the cheating is somewhat understandable. So I famously said, like, look,
if a woman cheats on a man, you can never
forgive us. She's going to cheat on you forever, and

(58:07):
she's just using you for free accommodation.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
And I used to and I do stand by that.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
Usually when a woman cheats on a man, there's usually
very little recovery. But then i'd have clients and the
woman would say to me, he deprived me of sex
for six years, four years, he wasn't sleeping with you.
I didn't know what to do as one I had.
I was so lost. I didn't know and my culture
we don't get divorced. I didn't know what to do
in those circumstances. It's like, did they really cheat or
did you push.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
Them to that point?

Speaker 2 (58:31):
Are they actually an inherent cheat or did the circumstance
of that relationship bring out the worst in them? I
think if they're an inherent cheat and they do it
from day one, they did it even while you were
good to them, even while you're consistent in caring all
of these things, I don't think there's any point recovering
that relationship. But if it was something that happened in
the relationship that brought out the worst in them, and
you can repair what happened in that relationship, then perhaps

(58:52):
you can give it a chance, particularly you've deprived each
other of intimacy, because that's usually the main cause. If
you've deprived each other of intimacy, it's almost a bit
unf to expect a partner to be lawer for five, six,
seven years. If you've never given them any intimacy and
they're still a human. They got needs, So I can
understand in those circumstances that they might do things that
are out of character.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
It's always hard because when people look at it from
their own perspective, they're always like, but I was loving
to you the whole time, right, that's generally our reaction.
It's almost like, but I was good to you, yeah,
and the other person's like, well I didn't see it
that way.

Speaker 2 (59:22):
Well, you might have been good to me, but the
needs weren't met. Yeah, so you might be. And I
know couples I've never fought, no fights, no nothing, but
they just didn't have any intimacy for years. Or they
might have been a couple that actually don't fight, no
issues in that time, but there might be some emotional
needs that they just weren't kissing or harging or saying
nice things to each other. So it's the needs rather
than just a surface of the relationship that matters more.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
Yeah, what have you seen when you're as you said,
we started with this idea that men who've been cheated
on by women, what have you seen the success rates
of healing growth for that individual? Even if they don't
stay with the same person.

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I find that men that get cheated on once tend
to get cheated on in every relationship. And I know
that sounds terrible, but there's something about them getting cheated
on in one relationship. They tend to get it a lot.
And the reason why is because firstly, there's something broken
in their selection. They're selecting women that need a lot
of repair and have a lot of trauma and have
a lot of issues. So they're selecting women who aren't

(01:00:18):
truly attracted to them, but they're super attracted to that
partner and they're trying to be useful to get that
woman's attachment. The second thing is when they do meet
a woman that has a few red flags, they are
so so passive with those red flags. They don't have
the ability to set boundaries. They don't know when to
set us say no. They feel like they're being toxic
if they have any kind of needs or wants, so

(01:00:39):
they just become too placid. And in those cases, what
ends up happening is they attract women with a lot
of red flags because they don't have the strength to
stand up for women that do. So what ends up
happening is they tend to be in a cycle of
attracting that unfortunately, so they're usually selecting women with a
lot of trauma and a lot of issues and a
lot of unhealed like behavior. And then when they see

(01:01:00):
that unhealed behavior, they don't know how to set that boundary,
and they usually forgive cheating. I think one thing that
is underspoken about is men forgive for female cheating far
more than we realize. I would say majority of men
forgive it, but they just don't talk about it. The
problem is the more you forgive it. There's something about
women that to lose a bit of respect when a
man is super forgiving.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
I know that sounds terrible.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
It's not that we want someone toxic, but we want
somebody that has some boundaries. And when we learn that
he has zero, she might at first be really grateful. Yeah,
at first, she might thank you for forgiving me whatever
it is. But later on, what he hasn't understood is
for her to actually cheat. And something's missing. Those three
a's they haven't been addressed. Yeah, either the attraction, admiration
or the adoration. Something's been missing. And usually when you

(01:01:43):
forgive too many misdemeanors, the admiration for the man starts
to go down, and therefore there's an inevitable end. I
could be wrong, but and my experience, I've always seen
that men that forgive cheating they end up getting cheated
and again by the woman that they forgive, and in
the future they tend to find it again and again.

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
And women, how is it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
It's slightly different.

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
It's like the chances of him cheating again do go up,
but usually I do find if the intimacy is consistent,
they tend to be relatively faithful. Is the intimacy drops,
the chances of infidelity to increases. And when women realize that, okay, yeah,
maybe we didn't have so much intimacy, she's not as angry.
It's only when she realized she did do her job
and he still did it, then she gets furious and

(01:02:24):
then she finds it really difficult to forgive. So it
depends more on the intimacy than the actual respect when
men cheat.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
I want to shift to talking about the female client. Yeah,
the one who says I want a man to commit
but he's not. Yeah. I think that's super common. Yeah,
I think people are feeling like, hey, we're thirty, we're
mid thirties, we're forty. Why does he not want to commit?

Speaker 2 (01:02:44):
Well, first of we unfortunately there's a lot of men
that are raised in homes with divorce nowadays. Yeah, so
what happens is they see a divorce in their family,
and whenever you're raised with a divorceity, he either really
really cherished commitment and just never want to get a
divorce and want to stay with one person forever. But
the more common response, particularly for men, is to avoid
intimacy and emotional intimacy as much as possible. You just
don't want to get too vulnerable. So we're dealing with

(01:03:06):
the men, a market of men that have witnessed divars
and a little bit anxious of getting committing. If you
are a man that has commitment issues, if you're trying
to work out, because a lot of men think that, oh,
it's not commitment issues. I don't have commitment, it's just
she's like this and she's too needy, or she's They
try and blame the woman. If it was truly something
wrong with the woman, then why are you with her?

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:03:24):
I always ask him why you're with her? Why don't
you just leave her?

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
And let her find somebody who's going to commit, so
then they realize, actually there's nothing wrong with her.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
There must be something in them.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
If you suffer from commitment issues, the best thing to
do is make a as a man, try and be
a bit logical.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
Make a risk assessment. What are the worst things that
can happen if I commit to this woman? How bad
can it be?

Speaker 2 (01:03:42):
If it's like, oh, she's really toxic, she's really abusive,
she's going to cheat on me, Fine, no problem, then
maybe just exit. But if you find that the risks
are quite low and the behaviors are quite good, then
you don't lose anything from committing. Nothing is going to
actually happen. Whatever your fear is is irrational. So try
to work out the risks of that relationship. If there's
not too many risks, try and just commit. Because only
through commitment you'll realize if you're compatible. Without commitment, you

(01:04:04):
can't actually get to compatibility. And the reason being is
because when we're not committed, we dilute the attachment. We're
kind of talking to this person here, we're going there,
we're not truly committed. The moment you commit, you realize
if you're right or wrong for each other, and then
it speeds up your own time. You're not wasting your
own time with the wrong person. So commitment is actually
very useful for both parties to realize where it's going.

Speaker 1 (01:04:22):
And what about for the woman who's waiting for him
to commit, She's tried to have the conversation with him.
He's not opening up, he can't really reflect on this
idea that he wants to commit. What does she do?

Speaker 2 (01:04:34):
I would say, like in my experience of women who
have had to push their partner into aultimatums into getting commitment,
the man you end up being married to is not
a man you'll actually be happy with. The men that
are pushed into commitment tend to resent their partners for
making them a married man. They get angry at small
signs of intimacy. They get annoyed that they have to
be loving to you. They get annoyed that they have
to check in with you every day and tell you
what time they're coming home and what time dinner is

(01:04:56):
going to be ready. They resent the patterns of being married.
So the more you're pushing man that doesn't want commitment
into commitment, you're only going to access a relationship that
won't really make you happy anyway, So when you're forcing
them and putting the automatives, it's better to ask yourself,
is this man who he truly is right now? Somebody
I can actually be married to? If the answer is you,
he's got potential, maybe if you committed, then try not to.

(01:05:18):
But if it's like, yes, he is, then he would
naturally like commitment. So ask yourself, is it truly is
someone worth pushing into a commitment, because usually they turn
into a very negative person when you push them into commitment.

Speaker 1 (01:05:29):
Anyway, I'm glad you said that about ultimatums. I'm not
a fan of.

Speaker 3 (01:05:32):
Why don't you like them?

Speaker 1 (01:05:34):
Same reason? I think if anyone has to be forced.
For example, if a guy doesn't want to have a
wedding and you force him to have a wedding, he'll
resent it forever.

Speaker 3 (01:05:44):
Yeah, and you'll make you miserable.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
That's just one day. That's one So let alone like
having a marriage and being in a marriage and all
the rest of it. I just think that you can't
for if you have to force people into love and commitment, yeah,
then it's not love and commitment. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:05:59):
And are you sure you love them, because if you
have to force them to become a person they're not
in order to please you. Are you sure you love
the real them? Because every time I meet a woman
who's suffering in a marriage, I ask him did he
want to get married because the things you are? Because
usually a lot of these women are not asking for
a lot. They'll say I just asked him to spend
some time with me after work, or I just asked
that maybe we can get a kiss. When he walks
in and he makes it out like it's such a
big degre, He's like, leave you alone. He gets so aggressive

(01:06:20):
about it. And then I asked him did you push
him to get married? And she's like, yeah, well I
sold him. I'm turning thirty four this year. If you
don't marry me, I'm gone. And you know, he got
nervous and did it. But unfortunately, those ultimatums just bring
out the resentment in the man or the woman all
the other way around. It brings out their resentment and
they're mean to you. And are you sure you want
to marry somebody who's going to be mean?

Speaker 1 (01:06:39):
Yeah, Because the opposite of commitment is actually comfort. The
point is they're comfortable and that's what they want.

Speaker 3 (01:06:45):
That's what they want.

Speaker 1 (01:06:46):
And so when you're forcing commitment, you're basically saying I
want you to be uncomfortable, and they don't want it,
and they don't want it, and they do it and
then they're uncomfortable and then blame then and then you
get the blame.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
And they're truly uncomfortable. Just simple things. I'll have clients,
so it's just a simple thing, just going to bed.
At the same time, he doesn't want to do it.
He want to be like, I don't want to go
at the time I want to go. So the acts
of marriage, do the behaviors of marriage feel uncomfortable to
that man? If they do, then you're going to create
a husband that you actually don't aren't happy with, and
you're going to suffer.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Let's take a short break to hear from our sponsors.
All right, thank you to our sponsors. Now let's dive
back in. Can you save a bad relationship?

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Yes, you can save a bad relationship, but it's difficult
if both people don't want to. The only way you
can save a bad relationship is if both people truly
want to and they've just misunderstanding each other. The relationships
that are difficult to save is when one other person
is far more attached than the other. When one person
is really wanting the relationship to work, and the other
person is simply not attracted, not invested, and not committed,

(01:07:48):
then what ends up happening is the only way it
can be saved is the beggar in the relationship demands
less and less and less, And that's usually the dynamic.
When one person wants it more than the other, you
get a beggar in the relationship. And just like beggars
on the street, when they ask for a bit, you'll
give them a bit, but when they ask for a lot,
you're like, go away, you're a beggar, Like I'll give
you bare minimum. That's how couples start to treat the
person who begs to be with them. So when you

(01:08:10):
enter that dynamic, it's very difficult to fix. But when
you enter a dynare we don't know why we keep
butting heads. We love each other, I don't know why
it's not working. Then it's probably just something wrong in
understanding each other's core needs, and it's very easy to
fix those people.

Speaker 1 (01:08:21):
Yeah, I think it's natural for relationships to go through
ups and downs. It's pretty remarkable if a relationship is
always hard because work comes out. I think having children
is a huge one for people to stay connected during
that time. Travel, There's a million things that are going
to happen, and all of it comes down to am
I communicating with that person and are they communicating with me?

(01:08:44):
And I think we just haven't been trained to say, hey,
when you're going through a change, Yeah, tell your partner
and practice it when the changes are small, like, hey,
for the next three days, I've got a busy work period.
Hey for the next week, I've got a big presentation
of work I'm preparing for, or like talk about those
tiny things. Yeah, so that when you have big things
like having kids or travel or parent issues, you're not

(01:09:07):
as scared.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
Yeah, it's not so bad.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
But then I do find what relationships happen In relationships,
there's relationships that have pains, which are ups and downs.
Maybe the miscarriage, maybe things go wrong busy with work.
And there's relationships that are suffering, which is simply a
consequences of poor decisions when you've chosen the wrong person.
Pains will happen in every marriage. Every marriage will have
ups and downs, financial issues. Babies will come pay, but
babies will go God forbid, parents get sick. Those are

(01:09:30):
pains in marriages. These are to be expected and it
can cause rough periods. Suffering is when even without those
there are emotional consequences of just choosing the wrong partner
and daily, daily things, small things become big fights. You
just want to hold hands, They get angry at that,
You just want to spend more time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:46):
They get angry at that. Your life starts to feel
like suffering.

Speaker 2 (01:09:48):
And when it's more suffering than it is pain, then
it's a bit harder to fix those marriages.

Speaker 1 (01:09:52):
I do think picking is such a big part of it. Yeah,
it's so hard when going back to your three a's
and your three l's. Yeah, if someone's been with someone
for ten years now and the attractions faded naturally to
some degree, they kind of admire them, and they kind

(01:10:15):
of get adoration to some degree, and you already have
kids together, you're not going to necessarily get divorced.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
No, but then that's fine. That's actually not so end
of the world, as long as it's not so toxic.
If you've got to a stage where it's kind of okay,
it's not so bad. I think in this day and age,
that's a win.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
I know it sounds terrible and it sounds like, oh,
you're just floating by, But I think as long as
you're avoiding suffering and you're not a toxic in if
you're after ten years, you're kind of attracted, kind of admires,
some adoration, but it's not unstable.

Speaker 3 (01:10:45):
I actually think that's a win.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
I know that sounds terrible, but I just think that's
not a bad I wouldn't be terrified if I had that.
It's only when you never had those to begin with,
and then they just gets exaggerated, exaggerated, exaggerated, it usually
turns into suffering.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
Yeah, So unless it's toxic abuse exploited.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
To I think if you don't have it so bad
and you don't have any of the deal breakers, I
think what happens is people focus so much on like
having the highs in a relationship. I just think, as
long as you don't have deep lows, even if it's
not like poems and you don't have these holidays and
you don't have these great experiences, but you don't have
any of those toxic lows. Having that sense of peace
is actually okay, I actually think that's a win. I

(01:11:22):
think it's toxic to assume that you should always be
having those highs. I think actually just seek that piece,
and it's as long as they don't have deal breakers,
the relationship will be Maybe it won't be the most exciting,
but as long as it's not got those deal breakers,
you'll actually have relatively peaceful marriage.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Yeah, it's interesting you just said both are toxic. Always
wanting to be on the highest toxic and naturally someone
who treats you low as toxic. Yeah, and so both
of them can be toxic. So of them as opposed
to accepting that piece is piece is a great place
to be.

Speaker 3 (01:11:48):
It's the goal.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Yeah, the end goal is that peaceful state where it's
not too high not too low. The highs and lows
comes because the circumstance isn't but not because our day
to day interactions are so overstimulating or understimulating.

Speaker 3 (01:12:00):
It doesn't come from day to day. It comes from
experiences or events in our marriage.

Speaker 1 (01:12:03):
Sadia, what's the worst thing to say to someone who's
just gone through a breakup?

Speaker 2 (01:12:08):
The worst thing that you can say to somebody who's
just gone through a breakup. Is that, Well, you knew
he was like that anyway, so what's the problem? I know,
you know, sometimes we do know the person was already
like that, we know, but right now, dwelling on that
person is probably the least important part of the healing
process to get over our heartbreak. It's not so much
that we have to forget the person that we're heartbroken about,

(01:12:30):
but we just have to try and rediscover ourselves. And
the best way to rediscover ourselves is not by focusing
on the person, focusing on what he did wrong, how
terrible he is. It's more just finding out what your
patterns are, what your selection was, and then how you
can improve your life so much so that the feelings
for him become they disappear. But dwelling on him and
focusing on him and all his problems, I think that

(01:12:51):
will just keep you invested in relationship and make it
harder for you to heal that heartbreak.

Speaker 1 (01:12:56):
What about when you thought you were going to spend
the rest of your life with someone and they left you,
They moved on, They didn't see it the same way,
but you were convinced after a few years that this
was going to be your person and you break up.
What actually helps, I.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Think the only thing that helps is just remembering that
everything you wanted with this person, whether that vision was
getting married, whether it was to have kids, where it
was to go on holidays, that vision is still attainable
for you. You can still access that entire vision you
had with them with somebody new, and if you feel
like you really loved that person, you probably just loved
certain traits that they had.

Speaker 3 (01:13:32):
Those traits that he has.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
Are available in other men that will actually still make
your vision come true. And hopefully the new person will
not have the traits that cause the relationship to break down.
So remember it's not about the person. This is the
way people get stuck in heartbreak. They think that their life, happiness,
and the relationship and their end goal in life is
in the hands of that particular person in that relationship.
That end goal is something that they can still attain

(01:13:54):
and achieve by themselves if they just remember that, they
can still achieve it with somebody else, or they can
achieve it by themselves, they can achieve through friends. That
goal is more important than the person, and your vision
is far more important than the relationship. So as long
as you keep your vision in mind and remember that
there's other people that can help you attain that vision.
You will let go of that ego that's attached to
that particular person that that just broke your heart. And

(01:14:14):
I know this sounds hard to do, but when you
find out that somebody's hurt you and they've moved on
and they've got a relationship, we can't be hurt and
happy for somebody at the same time. If you want
to remove your hurt for people, you almost have to
try and be happy for them, even if they don't
deserve it. You don't do it for them, You do
it for your own sake. So you can suppress that
feeling of her and just be like, he treated me terribly,
But I would never want somebody else to go through that.

(01:14:36):
So I hope he has a happy relationship. I hope
he treats her way better than he treated me, And
then hopefully you'll attract that positive energy back into your
own life.

Speaker 1 (01:14:43):
How do we get closure when the person doesn't give
it to us.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
We can get it through their actions, not their words.
So if for example, I really love this person and
they just left me out of nowhere and they gave
me no explanation. Sometimes the closure is in their behavior.
The fact that they could let me go and leave
me hanging in that moment is all the closure I need.
That maybe they didn't see me as important as I
saw them, Maybe they found someone else, whatever it is,
Their closure comes in their behavior, not just their words.

(01:15:07):
Whatever they were going to say to you probably wasn't
true anyway. They're probably just trying to make you feel
better or trying to hide what the real reasons is.
Their words are not so important, their actions are. And
we can always find closure in people's actions.

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
Yeah, and often their actions are so painful. Yes, take
up a gear of a text. They don't want to talk.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
To you, And as hard as it is, it's usually
our ego that seeks another conversation with them. If you
really look at their behavior, your soul will know they're
bad forew So try and pay attention to your soul
knows if someone's good or bad for you. Our ego
will just want the last word. They just want them
to come calling back to us, so we can say, oh,
we can reject them, or we can have our last word.
But try and remember that that's just your ego speaking

(01:15:45):
your soul knows that this proper person probably wasn't right
for you. If they were right for you, wouldn't be
suffering today. So try and let go of that need
for validation and that need for conversation and replace it
with their behavior.

Speaker 3 (01:15:55):
Spoke volumes.

Speaker 1 (01:15:56):
That difference between the soul and ego is so powerful.
The hard part is most of us are living through
our ego daily and not our soul. So to suddenly
flip into salt living not ego living in a breakup,
it's extremely hard.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Yeah, because your ego is what looks right and your
soul is what actually is right, and we always want
to look right. We want to be the one that
says I don't want to be with them, or we
want to be the one that broke up with them.
But that's just a temporary high of being the one
that had the final say or being the one that
got to say this. These are temporary highs. The long
term high comes from not needing those conversations. It's almost
like an emotional kind of neutrality towards that person, and

(01:16:34):
the quicker you can get there, the quicker you actually heal,
so the less you can pay attention to your ego,
the closer you'll get to healing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:41):
Well, would you encourage people to think about that through
steps and stages?

Speaker 2 (01:16:44):
I think the ego When it comes to your soul
and ego, the key difference is ego is what makes
you look good in front of people. Soul is actually
what makes you feel right. So it might make you
look better or to him, if you start posting pictures
of you with another man or showing memes, it might
make it, you know, get a stab at them, but
do you actually feel any better when you do that.
The ego might make you say, look, go move on
to another guy, Go text your ex, go be with

(01:17:06):
another person, make him jealous, but your soul will No,
it doesn't feel right. So the in and voice that
you have like does this actually feel right? And how
you can assess this? You ask yourself if I didn't
meet this person, like say with my ex, I just
broke up with my husband and I was like, Okay,
if I didn't meet this person, ever, would I be
going on this date with this random guy or would
I be actually sitting at home and watching TV with

(01:17:28):
my friends. If the answer is I would still be
going on the date with the guy. The chance that
it's not your ego, You're probably just doing it because
that's what you want to do. But if it's like
I'm only going to the club because I know he's
going to be there now I want to hurt him,
or I'm only going to go text this other guy
because i know it will hurt him. If you're allowing
that person to dictate your feelings and what you do,
then it's probably your ego speaking to yourself. Act like
that person doesn't exist, and ask yourself, what do you

(01:17:49):
want to do with yourself? And if the answer is
I just want to heal, I just want to cry,
I just want to feel good, like I want a
couple of days to myself, then do that rather than
just trying to play that game and seeing who looks
better and trying to win, because there's no winner when
you follow your ego.

Speaker 1 (01:18:01):
I was really happy that we started with the two
core issues you go through with your clients, because I
think they're even if it's not women cheating on men,
it's mentioning on women, it's infidelity, and then this idea
of commitment, which I think are two of the biggest
things that everyone's struggling with and then at the same
time talking about relationships at the top end of attracting

(01:18:23):
the three a's the three l's, it's a.

Speaker 2 (01:18:24):
Bit a paradox that the women that want commitment and
the men that are committed they're not finding each other.
There's the men that are getting treated badly in relationships
and the women that are getting treated badly, and they
seem to not seem to be attracting each other unfortunately,
which is a shame, because I think there's something about
being too nice as a person, both women and men.
They don't attract each other because I don't feel useful
when we're with somebody else who's equally as nice as them.

(01:18:46):
They almost feel better when they're with somebody a bit
tougher and stronger, so they can, you know, feel like
the nice person in that relationship. If they simply meet
each other, it would be a great resolution to this
problem that we're facing and modern dating at the moment.

Speaker 1 (01:18:58):
Yeah, I think the big part of it is also
healing and retraining our own desires, because not everything you
want is good for you, and sadly, the things that
are good for you don't want them, I know, and
so the sad part is you're attracted to the things
that are bad for you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Just like with food, just like with everything in life. Unfortunately,
we were attracted to things without a bad few. But
the moment you heal your self esteem, what happened is
you'll have a natural distaste towards things that are bad
for you, people who don't love you, people who don't
treat you right. How you know your self esteeming is
improving is at the moment those people start treating you badly,
you lose attraction to them. And the moment people treat
you well, you increase your attraction to them, And that

(01:19:40):
is a real signal. And I know sometimes you can
get love bombed and the person is just so so
nice to you, and then you're attracted to that. But
it's that steady, healthy pace of people treating you nicely
that you are attracted to, which you'll help heal your
self esteem.

Speaker 1 (01:19:52):
Sadia, You've been amazing. We end every On Purpose episode
with a final five. These have to be answered in
one word, one sentence, so Sady, you can't. These are
your final five. Question number one, what is the best
relationship advice you've ever heard or received?

Speaker 3 (01:20:09):
Pick piece over pleasure?

Speaker 2 (01:20:11):
Always to somebody who will give you more peace than
pleasure if you want a long lasting relationship.

Speaker 1 (01:20:16):
Question number two, what is the worst relationship advice you've
ever heard or received?

Speaker 2 (01:20:20):
You are somebody's dream girl, or don't set up a
less I think anything that inflates your vision of what
a relationship looks like is going to make it difficult
for you to find the right person.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Great answer. Question number three. What's something that you think
everyone believes to be true about love but it's actually
not true?

Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
It should be unconditional. I don't believe that it should
be true. You definitely need conditions for your love, otherwise
you will attract people who abuse your kindness.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
That's a great answer. Question number four, what is something
you used to believe was true about love but recently
you've disconnected with that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
Just being with somebody who just loves you so so
much is all you need when really, without you being
attracted to that person, it will feel like neediness.

Speaker 1 (01:21:08):
Fift and final question. If you could create one law
that everyone in the world had to follow, what would
it be?

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
You treat people behind their back as you do in
front of them, So how you behave behind people's back
is exactly how you are in front of their face.
And if you want to practice that in your relationships,
what happens is you don't need your partner to regulate
you in any way, shape or form. You act like
the same person with or without their monitoring. And if
you do that in life, I think you'll probably have
more authentic relationships.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
So you can't thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
This is, without a doubt, my favorite relationship episode we've
ever done. I don't believe I honestly have never gone
that deep into the nuances of why and who and
where and just I love the way you think about it.

(01:21:56):
I really really appreciate it. And I want everyone whos
listen and watching to tag me in Sadia on Instagram,
on TikTok with the moments that resonated with you, that
connected with you, that things you're going to stop doing
from now on, things you're going to start doing, signs
you're watching out for, because I want to see what
you're putting into practice. If you don't follow Saudia across

(01:22:18):
social media already, make sure you go and subscribe. I
hope that it saves you from wasting time, money, and
energy on the wrong person. And I really really hope
that it helps you connect with true, meaningful, lasting love. Sadia,
I'm so grateful to you again.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
You have no idea how much you have honored me today.
So thank you so so much for your time. I
cannot believe I get to speak to you.

Speaker 3 (01:22:43):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
If you love this episode, you'll love my interview with
Dr Gabor Matte on understanding your trauma and how to
heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.
Everything in nature goes only where it's vulnerable. So treee
doesn't go over it's harden taked as that it goes
with it, soft and green and vulnerable.

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Jay Shetty

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