June 27, 2024 • 43 mins
People have been branding themselves for a long time, but personal branding is a whole new beast in the digital age -- especially for Black folks. Katie and Yves speak with Bridget Todd of There Are No Girls on the Internet about what it means to share carefully crafted personas on social media.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get
into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving
connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really
been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it
if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe
to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all,
Now time for the episode. On Theme is a production
(00:22):
of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm Katie and I'm Eves.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Today's episode Branding While Black, So Katie, I have a
fraught relationship with personal branding. I am not the most
comfortable person on social media, but I understand the pressures
of feeling the need to personal brand. And when I
say personal brand, I'm thinking create a very molded and
(01:07):
shaped and crafted story about ourselves on social media and
on the Internet. And I know that it can feel
like a part of marketing, but too honestly, it's a
part of storytelling because we are telling stories about ourselves.
And I just wondered, does that look different for black
people than it does for everybody else? How do you
(01:29):
feel about personal branding?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I find it more of an evil than a necessary evil.
I try not to do it at all. I try
to resist as much as possible, especially I think with
online personal branding.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of downsides to
personal branding and to having to do it and having
to be visible on the Internet in a way that
is compartmentalized. But I know that there are also upsides
to it. It's a very complicated topic and for that reason,
we wanted to talk to Bridget Todd of the podcast
(02:08):
There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
My name is Bridget Todd, I you shee her pronouns,
and I am the creator and host of iHeartRadio's techn
culture podcast called There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Someone with a great personal brand. I'd say yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So let's get into our conversation with Bridget. Hi, Bridget,
welcome to one theme. We are so happy to have
you here today.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Uh Eve's my podcast play Cousin. I am so excited
to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So I have a lot of feelings about social media
and about what branding means, and I definitely rub up
against some friction a lot of the time when I'm
thinking about what branding means and kind of feeling compelled
to come up with the brand and do the active branding.
But I am wondering, since you're very in tune with
social media and digital media strategy, what exactly does personal
(03:04):
branding mean to you?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
To me, personal branding is very powerful. It's a necessary
way to show up online. It is a necessary way
to make sure that the people that you want to
be in conversation with, the people that you want to
give you money to make things that they think of
you when they think of whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
That you specialize in.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
However, I would also say personal branding is really exhausting.
I think that it's something that we are forced to
do because we live in a capitalistic, white supremacy society
that kind of forces us to be not just making
the thing and excited about making the thing, but selling
how we make the thing.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
And yeah, I just don't.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I think that any conversation about personal branding also has
to be rooted with the fact that sometimes it feels
like we are forced to do that kind of work
in addition to the work that we want to be doing.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So, given your stance on personal branding, give us your
personal brand a bio.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Tell us who we are?
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Oh man, so who I am?
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And as it pertains to my how I've branded myself personally.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Or like yeah, like if we were if I was
a big shot in an elevator who had the money, like,
what would you say to get some off of me?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
First of all, I would say, if you're a billionaire,
you probably didn't get that money ethically.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
So you want to say it funds.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Your conscient No, no, no, no, well no. I did want
to get drunk at a party with very rich people
and I asked somebody how much their house costs.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
My friend was like, that's such a rude question.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
We'll do that when I'm not drunk.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
So if I was in an elevator with a big
shot media professional, I would say that along with my
amazing team, with folks like Tari Harrison and Joey Pat,
I make conversations about technology and the policy and the
people that run it. I make those accessible, and I
make those in ways that highlight the reality that it
(05:01):
is traditionally marginalized people who make technology what it is.
And so we're fostering and curating conversations that really deepen
the perspective of black folks, queer folks, black women, trans folks,
working people, all the kinds of people that are often
left out of conversations about technology, the Internet, social media,
what it means, and the policy.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
That shapes it.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
We start there, like that is our starting point for
those conversations.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
I can tell you've done that before, Bridget.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I give you some money.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I'm just gonna know, right, money please, So when you
are thinking about personal branding, like because I've went to
your website and I was and I listened to your show,
I'm like, I truly don't know anything else about you
besides what you like put out there that's pertaining to
your professional career. Like I don't know if you've got
(05:51):
a man, you got a woman, you got kids, I
don't know nothing. I'm like, I'm nosy and I want
to know those things. But I feel like you personally,
like purposely, don't put those out there. So like, what
story are you focused on telling? And what story are you? Like, No,
that's a distraction for why I'm trying to get at Katie.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
That is a very like that is you're good with
your Internet sleuthing because you would have to dig pretty
deep I think to find out personal information about me,
And that is very much with intention and by design,
and I think It goes back to what I personally
have found about my branding is that because I find
(06:26):
personal branding and sort of storytelling about myself online, I
find it kind of exhausting and I don't really like
participating in it that much these days, but I know
I kind of have to because of the career that
I'm in.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
I am very intentional about it.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
I almost would use the phrase like, you know, kind
of neutrally manipulative.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
I don't want any I only want someone.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
To be able to say like, oh, well, she does
x y Z kind of work, she's interested in x
y Z kind of projects. And part of it is
because you know, I care quite a bit about my
work and my professional identity, but my real identity, the
people that I love, my community, my values, all of that.
I kind of hold that a bit closer to my
(07:09):
chest because I don't want that to be something that
is a personal an exhaustive personal branding exercise. Right like
when I'm spending time with my family, I don't want
to feel that I have to be digitally curating a
story about that time. Otherwise it doesn't count. That's just
like not a not a dynamic. I'm really interested in
bringing into certain parts of my life. But I'm happy
(07:30):
to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
With you all. In terms of how I brand myself,
it doesn't really show up.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yes, I've no zy, I want to know. I'll talk
about that after Katie.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Well, I'm curious how is it shown up for like
how do you two as creatives and hosts and people
who have platforms and make things like how do you
How have you found that dynamic?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I think we approach very differently.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Say more about that.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I think cause like I don't have like a website
about myself or anything I've taken into like also not
like really posting anything about my like family, and I
used to I felt like people would ask me questions.
I just felt like I had to answer, like and
it's like so silly to say it was like you
actually don't have to tell people things just because they
ask you that, Like, oh, guy Ross is asking me
(08:16):
about my grandpa, I have to tell him and I'm
just like, oh no, I don't. So like I've tapered
off of that. I feel like I've grown into like
cause like in my personal life, I'm very like to myself,
like I don't even be telling my friends like every
single thing. So I'm like, why am I telling the
internet every single thing? And I think I got to
that very quickly. It's like, actually, I don't like this,
Like I feel like I don't really have a curated
(08:40):
personal brand. Maybe my personal brand is like not having one,
like being mysterious, I would like think. I was like, yeah,
my agent was like, you need to have a website
and you need to do this, and I'm just like, hmm,
I hear you, but I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So yeah, they tried to do the same thing to me,
like back in like years ago when I first started
hosting pop they were like, you should probably set up
a Twitter. I mean, and look how that's gone today,
you know. But I mean, I have felt compelled to
be to have a public presence, but that that feeling
of being compelled has never actually led me to do
(09:14):
anything that I'm uncomfortable with because at the end of
the day, I know that I have control over what
I choose to share with people and how I choose
to share it. So I have found myself telling myself
that I want to share more, but if that doesn't
show up right in my body, then I don't do it,
so I have shared more in the places where I
feel most comfortable, which for me oftentimes that is if
(09:36):
it's on social media, then that's in the Instagram space.
But if that's outside on the internet, like you know,
just the articles that I write in the podcast that
I produce, those are spaces where I know that I
have creative more creative control, and they're subject to scrutiny
in different ways, or at least more measured scrutiny. I
(09:56):
don't think I have a personal brand either, but I
think maybe one has been construct it for me and
my chosen interest. Actually, speaking of this bridget we've talked
about this before in the title of public intellectual and
how that's something that is like I would be labeled
as regardless whether or.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Not I would choose to call myself that.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
I mean, you are one.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
I don't think somebody comes down from the sky. And
as like Eves, I w a public intellectual.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
You are one.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
You publicly opined and have good takes and good opinions,
and you're part of the public conversation and people look
to you. The people who are listening to on theme,
they listen to the both of you to help them understand,
you know, what they should be help shape their own opinions,
and so yeah, I think.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
You are a public intellectual.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Even if you don't feel like you would ever call
yourself one, you both definitely are.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I feel like I'm getting a therapy session right now
for helping me work through some things.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Well.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Also, think about all the kinds of people who wouldn't
feel like I just know a lot of people who
are like, oh, I'm a X Y Z expert, and
I'm like, oh, I feel like experts the kind of
thing that other people have to call you.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
It's you're calling yourself one.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
That's interesting, and I think more people who have actual
good things to offer the world should take ownership of
those labels that mean so much.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
So, what would you say you're an expert in?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Oh? God, nothing, No, that's not true. I am an
expert in this is a good question. I am an
expert in curiosity. I know that's kind of a cop
out answer, but you know, like, that's one of the
reasons why I love podcasting is that you really just
(11:39):
get to poke and product people. And you know, Katie,
you said something earlier and Eves was like, Oh, tell
me more about that. If there was a question that
animates my entire existence in this world and is probably
tell me more about that, because I am just genuinely
very curious about who people are, what motivates them, their values,
where they see themselves, how see the world.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
So I think I'm an expert in curiosity.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So you have your own personal experience with personal branding,
but when you see other people and the ways that
they choose to personal brand in public, what are your
feelings about that? Like, do you have any sort of
initial emotions that come up when you think of the
ways that people have to personal brand on the Internet.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I don't know if anybody can relate to this feeling,
But lately I have made a lot of intentional efforts
to sort of step back and be a little more
selective about my how my own brand shows up online,
and also I've made the choice to care a little
bit less about it and say, like, if I want
to be a kick ass podcaster, I'm going to lean
into podcasting and the personal branding stuff can come second,
(12:42):
and that's okay. However, lately I have felt like when
I scroll social media, I am just constantly being bombarded
with the ways that I'm getting it wrong the ways
that I'm like, oh, you're not making reels, you should
be making tiktoks like this. You should be offering your
your audience. If you want to grow, do that. And
I think part of that is just the nature of
(13:04):
social media algorithms. It seems like every other month at
a mos Aria, the head of Instagram will be like, oh, well,
last month we told creators if they wanted to use
Instagram to the best of their ability, they should be
doing X.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Now it's why.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
And I realized that I just have no interest in
being on this hamster wheel while where I have to be,
you know, responding to the whims of billionaires who run
tech platforms who I will never meet, right, And so
I've made that decision for myself. But I don't feel
like it's very easy to sit in that choice all
(13:39):
the time, because constantly I'm bombarded by people who are
doing it right or have the answer, or want to
sell me the answer. I often find other people's personal
branding a little bit exhausting, and it's so just like
me projecting my own insecurities and anxiety around it onto them,
like they're not doing anything wrong. But it sometimes it
(14:00):
seems hard to just exist online without constantly branding yourself
and constantly selling people on who you are. Like, whatever
happened to kicking it online or having fun online or
finding community online in a way that wasn't like just
intentionally branding yourself as some sort of expert in your field.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, but that also makes me think about how corporations
and commercial institutions, how their anxieties and their issues have
been projected onto us, and how we've kind of had
to co op them in our own efforts to survive
and live in this world. And I'm wondering if you
(14:40):
see any differences in the way that Black people have
had to operate in that space of being forced to
personal brand to live, and how people of other races
have operated in that space.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
Do you feel differently about them? Do you see a
difference between the two.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I do see a difference. I think the stakes are
different for us, you know. I mean, I think historically
we have a lot less access, So we have a
lot less access to platforms and spaces and traditional media outlets,
and we've really had to build our own platforms and
spaces and media outlets. If you want to be heard
and want to be able to show up as our
(15:20):
authentic selves.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
That is a gift.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
That is a gift that we as black folks have
always had, is building our own tables when we're not
invited to other people's stables, Right, So I want to
honor the fact that that is a truly a gift
and a legacy.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
So I'm not knocking that.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
However, I think that because of that, we kind of
always have to be doing that, and like there's a
feeling that if you stop doing that, you'll cease to
exist or you'll cease to get those opportunities. And I
actually really do believe that. I think that if I
were to take a year off of social media or
a year off of making my podcast, I think that
(15:57):
it would be that much harder for me to come
back because people will be like, oh, what, like, in
that year, I didn't see you constantly posting what awards
you were winning, or constantly and posting what content you
were making, So I guess you didn't exist, right, And
So I think that because of these because of the
way that historically we have been shut out of that
kind of access, I think it creates this kind of
(16:17):
need to be doing something that luckily we're quite good at,
which is building our own platforms, And I just, yeah,
I just want to make sure that when we talk
about that, we're talking about it in a way that
both honors how great that is, but also is tuned
into how tough that can be, that feeling can be,
to be like, oh, I can't even take a break
for a moment, I always have to be branding.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, if we're already black people, is the way I'm
talking about already subject to so much scrutiny because even
when we're visible in the very smallest of ways. So
what do you think that kind of loop of visibility,
of having to be present at all times just by
nature of the Internet, but also because we're black, How
(16:59):
does does that affect like how we are treated in
terms of our visibility and hyper visibility.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Hypervisibility is a good word for it, because it's like,
as black folks who show up online, we're both hyper visible,
but in a lot of ways erased or overlooked. And
it's just very interesting to me how you can sort.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Of be both.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I've had accomplishments in my life where things happen in
my life that I don't put on social media and
people act like they don't exist, and so I'm really
challenging myself to sort of resist that internally. And I
really think about this quote from MICHAELA. Cole when I
think she won an Emmy, and she said, in a
world that entices us to browse through the lives of
(17:41):
others to help us better determine how we feel about ourselves,
and to in turn feel the need to be constantly visible.
For visibility these days seems to somehow equate to success.
Do not be afraid to disappear from it, from us
for a while and see what comes to you in
the silence. And I have always found so much power
in that quote, because when you have that silence and
(18:03):
that space where there aren't eyes on you, for me,
that has equated to really making something I'm proud of,
or really being able to lean into something right.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
And so I think that in a.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
World that tells us that visibility is success, not being
afraid to step back and go invisible, go dark for
a little bit, you know, I think it's really powerful
to be able to do that and understand what the
power in that in a world that tells you always have.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
To be showing yourself and branding yourself more.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
With bridget after this break. Have you ever taken a
social media break?
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Oh? All the time? I mean I'm not. I'm not
somebody who will be like, hey, guys taking a.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Break, Like like, nobody cares, my girl.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You could have kept that to yourself'll take a nap, right, Like.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We wouldn't have known if that was the algorithm or
them taking a break anyway.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
I definitely take long breaks, short breaks, all the breaks
from social media, and I don't feel the need to
announce it. But isn't it so weird that you would
even feel the need to announce it, Like there's like
how many other things in your life. If you stop
doing it for a week or a month, would people
be like, oh, are you okay?
Speaker 5 (19:23):
What's going on with you?
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Like if you didn't play a certain game for a month,
do you think that you would feel the need to
like announce that to the world. I just think that
that really, to me illustrates how we're so caught up
in this idea that everybody, everybody has to be on
social media all the time, and that you know that's
not true, Like you can dip in, dip out, do
it as it feels comfortable and right to you, and
(19:46):
truly nothing will happen.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I think that also goes to the difference between personal
branding online versus personal branding like IRL, because I don't
think people paid that much more. People pay more attention
to the online then like there in person presence. So
like you're going to think about like what outfit you're
posting when you're posting online, and you're going to craft
(20:08):
your caption really well, and you're going to like have
all this thought. But when you're out in the streets,
you're looking a mess, You've got a bond it on,
and you're talking crazy to the people at American Deli,
Like you're not really thinking too much about your personal brand.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And when people apologize for that, they do it online,
like when they apologize for their public presence. I've seen
people say I had to where I couldn't go outside
today because I wasn't. They'll say things about like wearing makeup,
or wearing a bond it out or not being dressed
to the nons, you know, not having their faces beat
and apologize for that because they know that might show
up online in a certain way, but not necessarily because
(20:42):
they care about how that personal interaction in real life went.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I mean, by the way, i'm pro bonnet outside just
putting that up out.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I'm just saying people will apologize for things like that
because they want to be perceived a certain way, because
they know their brand will show up.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, but it's like the personal branding, Yeah, I'd like
the obsession with it doesn't really for I think for
most people, it doesn't show up outside unless you're like
on a panel or at a conference, but like just
how you move every day, I don't see that as much.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
There is this weird kind of collapse that I see
between in real life and online evens where it's like, yeah,
somebody might have an interaction offline that is in some
ways authentically them because they're not branding it. It's just happening,
you know, off the cuff or whatever, and then go
online to talk about that interaction in a way that
(21:40):
is part of the brand. It's so interesting how these
online and offline realities have kind of collapsed. And I
do think that if something like in a lot of ways,
the digital realm has become more real than reality in
some ways where it only sort of matters how it
shows up online, or how it's branded online and how
it shows up in reality is a lot In a
(22:02):
lot of cases, it's a lot less important to folks.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I think, yeah, for sure, are you familiar with the
Google for faces pim eyes? Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yes, so I just learned about that, I think last week.
Are you familiar with the use?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So it's basically like, if say I have a picture
of you, and you can have a mask on, you
can have your eyes closed, you can be like looking
a different way. I can put that into that and
it would show every instance where your face appears online,
whether you posted it, whether you're just like in the
background of somebody else's picture, just everything, And like learning
about that really just like made me want to just
(22:40):
go further away from not branding myself. Like I was, like,
I want to remove every picture of myself from online,
just because like I think when we first started doing this,
I would say like for us, maybe like the early
twenty tens, we had no idea like what the internet
was going to be, and so like now in twenty
twenty four, I feel like we still don't have a
(23:02):
true idea, but we see a little bit more and
to me, it's like very scary what the internet is
about to be.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
You know, I think I might be a little older
than both of you, But I remember when I first
got Facebook. I was an undergrad in college and I
graduated college in two thousand and seven, two thousand and seven,
and this was when the main thing was like, you
are connecting with your friends, You are going out to
a nightclub, you are taking.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
A thousand pictures from.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
That single outing, posting all of them pistays, and all
of them for sure pit stains. Yeah, like albums, right,
And so I think that was sort of that the heyday,
when we really really kind of it was easy to
think of this as something that was about connection. Here
in twenty twenty four, I don't think that anybody feels
like social media platforms are offering us genuine connection anymore.
(23:53):
I think what they're offering us is exploitation. I think
what they're offering us is anxiety. I think what they're
offering us is surveillance, criminalization, all kinds of things. And
I think that you know that idea of connecting with
your friends, even if you look at your if you
if you open Instagram right now and scroll your you know.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Whatever their version of their feed.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
A lot of the stuff that you're being shown is
it from your friends or people that you've opted to follow.
It's algorithmically generated content that they want you to see
that they think that you might like, right, And so
I think that what is I think we should be
asking what that means for our role in all of this,
how we fit into that if social media platforms are
going to go to a place where it's more about
(24:35):
like surfacing you content than connection.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
So if you're no longer connecting with your.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Friends, are we all like Katie Eves and Bridget are
we all now de facto content creators?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Or or what like? Are we the audience here?
Speaker 4 (24:46):
I think that we really need to have a more
refined role in how we fit into this because the
two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, two thousand
and eight days are like way behind us in terms
of how this is all working.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
We're living in president at times, but we've been doing
so for for a while now. It's not like, oh,
we have like one one event that happens. It's like
ooh that was unpresidented, Glad that's over. It's just like
all of it, like the evolution of it is just like,
oh my god, like what's the next what are.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
We going to do?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
And as a podcaster, Bridget, I'm interested in getting your
take on like who owns our personal brands? Because it
sounds like, oh, it's our personal brand, we own it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
But you know, like as.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Contractors, like do we own those or is it you
know XYZ Corporation media conglomerate that owns our personal branding?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Well?
Speaker 4 (25:42):
As a company girl, I have to shout out the
good folks that iHeart radio definitely own my brand and
all of the things that come with it.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I mean I think your question is it's like a
really good one. I am I might be a weird
person to ask because I'm particular about ownership, right If
you ever watched that show Breaking Bad and Walter White,
one of the reasons it's like revealed by that one
of the reasons why he's so weird about his meth
recipe is that he was cut out of a cut
(26:12):
out of a deal when he was a scientist and
he didn't have ownership over a product that he made,
and it like stuck with him. I kind of feel
like that's a little bit of my origin story too,
where I am a real I am very particular about ownership.
I would rather get screwed on the money and have
more ownership of something. I don't know if that's like
the best choice, but part of it is because of
(26:33):
that discomfort around who owns what. I just hate the
idea that something that I create right, something that I conceptualized,
that I put my heart and soul into, that came
from me, that was that was colored by all of
the experiences that I have brought with me to this world,
that somebody else could be like, oh well, that's just
(26:54):
another point in our annual sales meeting about how we're
doing right. So like I am very I'm like very
weird about that kind of thing, and I do. I mean,
I've had situations where the line of ownership who owns
what about me and my work and my brand isn't
so clear, And so these days I'm trying to really
(27:14):
move through the creative professional world with a lot more
clarity about where the lines are about who owns what about?
You know, who has the final say, who has control,
who makes the money all of that because I think
it's I think you need to you know, I don't
want to get too into it, but like when I
was first coming up in podcasting, I've signed some deals
(27:34):
that I wish I had looked at a little closer,
because I would see, like, oh, I'm I'm inherently, both
in the work and on paper, just generating stuff for
other people. And so no matter how much of myself
I put into that, I'm only going to ever be
generating for others as supposed to generating for myself. And
so yeah, I feel a bit burned on that in
(27:56):
some ways and really trying to move now with a
little more clarity around it, but again as creative. So
it'd be really curious how you all are navigating that
as well.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
Well.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
I was just about to say you are.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You would not be the only person to say that, Bridget,
And I think it's like comforting to hear that coming
from you, a person who's worked on so many podcasts,
because these deals were happening then and they're still happening now,
and yeah, I think pretty difficult to navigate because if
you're working with the company, there's going to be some
trade offs, and the question is that you have to
(28:27):
ask yourself, like what are those trade offs to you?
Speaker 6 (28:28):
And what are the most important parts of it to you?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Those questions are often about ownership, and I think that
I in the past have not been like competent enough,
or I haven't had the team on my side, like
a good lawyer on my side to be able to
tell me what the right things were. So I've been
able to learn from crowdsourcing and the sharing of information,
which has been amazing.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Information is power. If anybody listening wants like DM me,
I will, I will give you my contracts, I'll give
you my lawyer's name, right, Like It's the only way
that we will ever take up more space in this
industry is if we share information. This mindset that like, oh,
we have to be cling to what you have because
you don't want her to get it or her to
get it. That's complete bullshit, Like there's enough room for
(29:11):
all of us. We need to have that mindset, and
we will all win and rise up when we share
information with each other.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
And yeah, I to that point.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
He's like, whenever I see companies that are hosting, like, oh,
we're doing a contest where if you submit your idea,
maybe we'll make your show. I'm always like in the
Instagram comments like, Hey, what's the ownership look like?
Speaker 5 (29:33):
What's the IP look like? Great contest? Like do they
own it?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Like?
Speaker 5 (29:36):
How does it work? What's the adsplit?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yay?
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Like that's me in the comments asking those questions.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I was at a festival and they had one of
those like activations like picture podcasts.
Speaker 5 (29:46):
I was like, don't do.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Good.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, And I think for black people in podcasting and
in writing in general, I've come up against that question
of like what I choose to share and what I
don't choose to share because as a creator, it's it's
like the generative process and a part of the process
that there can be fear around. But it can be
important to share certain things and to not be afraid
to put yourself out there all the time. But especially
(30:12):
as black creators in American media, it's important for us
to protect ourselves and the work that we create. So
it can definitely be a fine line to tiptoe. We'll
be back with more conversation with bridget after this break.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
I think it goes beyond just sharing information, honestly, Like
I can speak to it from the book publishing side
of it. And I'm getting like less than fifteen percent
of list price.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
And I have done all the work on this book.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I thought of the idea, I've gotten all the people together,
I'm designing it and I'm not a designer, but I'm
like showing the designer everything that I want to do.
I've written everything, I travel, you know, all these things,
and I'm getting less than fifteen percent of list price.
So like even if I told somebody that coming in,
like if I said, ease, I'm getting this much like okay,
like maybe you can get like one more person, but
like I don't know, I don't think like that's truly
(31:09):
going to make a change. And like a lot of
people's books are very personal, Like I don't know if
y'all read the memoir Heavy by Kisa Leiman, but it's
like a very personal book. And the books you've written before,
it's like got one thousand dollars total for those books,
And it's like this is the publishing industry, Like this
is what they do, like even if you're going to
be a really big name. So I think it goes
(31:30):
beyond sharing information and like actually, like you said, like
making our own thing and like having it cooperatively owned
and not like wanting to like cozy up with these
like big companies, which I know is like so like
hard to not think is really cool. But I feel
like every time I think something's really cool and I'm like, fuck,
this isn't cool.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It's not no, you know what, you know, those big
companies aren't cool.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
You know what's cool? Katie's cool, Like you know, you're cool,
like it.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
It's such a weird it's such a you're so right,
it's such a hard thing to turn off that being
associated with x y Z big brand or big company
or big publisher or big network or whatever that is going.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
To make me feel successful. And it's just not true.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
And it's like half the time those deals don't look
as shawny as they as they appear on the outside
on Instagram. Right, And you're so right that I think
it's not just information sharing. It goes beyond that of like,
here's the reality of what it looked like for me
to work with this company, so that you can decide
if it's worth it for you to work with this
company to only get X y Z of the price, right,
(32:29):
And I agree, I think it really has to go
back to building more abundant models for us to put
our stories and ideas out there that don't involve having
to cozy up with companies just because they have a
big name but a terrible reputation about how they treat people.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, And I also think it goes back to the
personal branding, because I will be the first tie to say, like,
I'm like a I like making an announcement about my book,
Like I have a book deal with the biggest publisher
in the world, and it's just like, well, and I'm
not going to be like and I'm getting like shitty
royalties and like all this stuff like all that, you know,
because I want to get my Instagram like so off
and for people to buy the book to tell me congratulations.
(33:05):
I think it goes back to like the personal branding,
like yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
And that makes me think about just going back to
our initial ideas around this about how personal branding is
a form of storytelling. We craft a certain story about
ourselves when we're telling our personal brands. We choose to
give this, we choose not to give that. And I
pulled a definition from personal brand dot Com, which I
had no idea existed before this episode, but they specifically, say,
(33:33):
a personal brand is a widely recognized and largely uniform
perception or impression of an individual based on their experience, expertise, competencies, actions, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 6 (33:44):
All the rest of that definition. You can go look
it up. But the point.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Is is that it's clearly a crafted thing. It is
when we create our personal brands, we are thinking. We're
being intentional about what we choose to share and what
we don't based on how we want to be seen.
So I know that we've used the word authentic a
couple of times in this conversation. I was wondering, Bridget,
if you think it's even possible for us to be
authentic and maintain a sense of self in how we
(34:09):
express ourselves when we are doing this personal branding.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Oh, absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
I mean I think I think, based on the definition
that you just read that I agree with and our
conversation here, I think it's I mean, I don't think
it's a lie.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
You know, when Katie says like.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Oh, I have this great book, deal with this great
publisher and all of that, leaving out the bit about
the parts that maybe aren't so exciting that she's not
doesn't not thrilled about.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
That's not a lie. It's just selective.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
It's just you're only getting a partial view into it
that Katie wants to control, right, And that makes all
the sense in the world. So I don't think it's
I don't think it's inauthentic to mean dishonest, but I
do think it's selective and we should all like have
that in our minds when we're scrolling Instagram, you know
every day that we're not getting the full lens into
whatever whatever is actually going on with you. But when
(35:00):
they're branding themselves online, like I'm not giving my full
self and how these things feel for me when I'm
branding myself, and I don't think the people that I'm
consuming their content.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
I don't think that they are either.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
And I would also add, like, I think that it's
really important to be branding yourself online if you're a
person making something in twenty twenty four. However, I think
that I've really found power in doing it, understanding that
I have to do it, but then not really putting
too much stock into it because how many likes my
(35:32):
stuff gets or whatever it feels good. Like it's like
a like who doesn't like it when they're when like
all their friends are in the comments like gay, good job.
But you really have to like have a sense of
what success looks like, like what nourishment looks like for you. Right, So,
Like I know stories that I want to tell, the
work I want to put out. I know how closely
(35:53):
it aligns with my actual values. Those are the kinds
of things that make me feel like a successful creative.
And I have to be really clear about that. They that,
like are the benchmarks of success for me? And what
are not the benchmarks of success for me?
Speaker 5 (36:05):
What just like feels.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Good and if I'm having a bad day might give
me a pickup, right, And so I think it's important
to not conflate those two things.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I also think it's important to acknowledge how that
self selection, even though we have agency when we're doing it,
it can also be exhausting. Like just because we're doing
something we have control over doesn't mean that it doesn't
also take like a mental and spiritual toll on us
having to segment those parts of ourselves. Because black people
we have to compartmentalize in so many different ways already.
(36:34):
We have to be respectable sometimes, you know, we have
to tone shift. We have to do so many different
things of like how we think about how we appear
to other people in order to ensure our safety. So
when we self select in doing that and personal branding,
I think some of those things can also come up
around how it takes a toll on our bodies and
(36:54):
how it takes a toll on our spirits. And I
think that is also an important thing to acknowledge, because
both of those things can exist at the same time.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
I'm so glad you said that.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
And yeah, and it's so funny that you could be
crafting and in control of your personal brand, but still
very aware of like needing or wanting to come off
as a certain way, like more palatable or something.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
And it's like, if there's ever a time where you
should be the person in.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Control of how you show up, it's like your little
corner of the Internet.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
But I don't feel that way. I wonder if you
all feel that way.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
You know, I don't really want to be in spaces
where I have to show up a certain way in
order to be accepted there. However, even as I curate
my little corner of my personal brand Internet, I am
aware of that sort that sort of double consciousness that
you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I think, Yeah, I feel like if I truly showed
up how I am, I would be on like an
FBI's most Wanted list.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
We'd all have black black pillowcases in some secret room.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Like, girl, I ain't even trying to get that deep
with y'all for real.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Like, and then are often times of dissonance for me
where I feel like I'm branded a certain I can
go look at my website. Y'all know I'm Southern. Y'all
know I'm gonna say y'all, y'all know I'm gonna be
in front of things. And then like you know, when
I'm in certain rooms, I mean, that's how I am,
That's my personality oftentimes, but you know that excuse me, yeah,
(38:26):
but that that there's a dissonance between my brand and
like how I do show up in some ways, not
necessarily because I am cutting off parts of myself, just
because I'm multiple people, Like I'm different ways in different places.
So also speaking of being multiple people and showing up
in different ways, I would have never expected you Bridget
(38:47):
to align yourself with Walter White.
Speaker 6 (38:49):
But so that's something I wasn't expecting you to say.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
There is one thing I wanted to say, just that
I think we would be remiss or I would be
remiss not to say that you were part of information
sharing for us, Bridget as we were doing this podcast,
Like you shared your contract with us. So when y'all
hear Bridget say that, know that she's telling the truth.
I would do the same. You know, anybody can come
to me. I will be transparent about that. And I
can't solve all your problems.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
I'm not a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I don't know intellectual property law. You know, there are
other people who would need to be on your support team,
but I would be happy to be of whatever kind
of assistance.
Speaker 6 (39:25):
I would like to be.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Oh my gosh, this is my favorite topic. Like I
will tell you how much money I make, down to
the penny. I will like, like, I'm curious about other
creatives how much money they make. There's so much smoke
and mirrors, so like I want to know how much
your house cost. I will ask the question, and I'm
happy to give that information back to others.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
And now it is time for role credits, the segment
where we give credit to a person, place, or thing,
and we have Bridget joining us, But first Eves who
are what would you like to give credit to today?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I would like to give credit to t I'm not
a big coffee drinker, and I didn't become a big
warm tea specifically.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
I'm an iced tea hater, so don't ask me why.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I don't like sweet tea and I'm from the South,
but I love hot tea.
Speaker 6 (40:11):
I love drinking green tea in the morning.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I like macha, but I like other kinds of tea too,
And I can somehow handle the caffeine from tea, but
I can't handle the caffeine from coffee.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
It makes me very dittery. But I love tea.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I like get and tea when I'm in different places.
And I don't know as much about it as I
would like to like. I would like to learn a
lot more. I know people who are master herbalists when
it comes to tea. But yeah, I want to give
a shout out to tea today.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Okay, Tea, what's tea? Brigit? What you've given a shout
out to given credit to me?
Speaker 4 (40:40):
I'm going to give a shout out to journaling. I
have not been one to journal that often. I'm kind
of on and off. But I had a weird kind
of personal professional situation and I went back and was
reading my journal entries about it because I was like,
am I Am I being crazy here in reading my
journal entries. I like, no, actually, I'm being I'm very
(41:03):
clear on how I feel. And if I had not
written down how I felt through the situation, I think
I would have really second guessed myself and dabted myself.
And so yeah, I don't I want to give it
up to journaling.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Keep a journal.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I would like to give credit to neighbors. I live
in a neighborhood where most of the people are like
old and retired, and you know, they see a young
hot bitch and they do you hate in a little bit.
But this past weekend they were not hating, and they
invited me over to their shindig that they have every
week and they never invite me to but they seem
(41:38):
nice and they kind of were just like, oh, like,
we didn't know how to invite you. And you kind
of forget that people are like weird and just like, oh,
like you're weird, they're weird. Like maybe they y'all are
both thinking weird things about each other. But it's fun
when you like have that like neighborly bond with someone
like you don't got to be friends, but like you
can be like in community and like you know, borrow
(41:59):
the lawnmower something. So give me credit to tea journaling
and neighbors.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
All right, well then, Bridgie, can you tell everyone where
they can find you on the internet.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
Be sure to listen to my podcast there are no
girls on the Internet twice a week.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
You can find that on.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And
you can find me on Instagram at bridget Marie ndc Perfect.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Thank you, this has been a dream. Thank you so
much for having me, and honestly, thanks so much to
you too. Congratulations to you and the whole team on
launching on Theme. You know, thank you for what you're
doing to elevate our stories. It's really such a beautiful
special thing.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
So congratulations and we will see you next week.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Bye.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
This episode written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It
was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us on
Instagram at on themeshow. You can also send us an
email at hello at on Theme dot show. Head to
on themet Show to check out the show notes for episodes.
(43:17):
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,
Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get
into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving
connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really
been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it
if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe
to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all,
Now time for the episode. On Theme is a production
(00:22):
of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
I'm Katie and I'm Eves.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Today's episode Branding While Black, So Katie, I have a
fraught relationship with personal branding. I am not the most
comfortable person on social media, but I understand the pressures
of feeling the need to personal brand. And when I
say personal brand, I'm thinking create a very molded and
(01:07):
shaped and crafted story about ourselves on social media and
on the Internet. And I know that it can feel
like a part of marketing, but too honestly, it's a
part of storytelling because we are telling stories about ourselves.
And I just wondered, does that look different for black
people than it does for everybody else? How do you
(01:29):
feel about personal branding?
Speaker 3 (01:31):
I find it more of an evil than a necessary evil.
I try not to do it at all. I try
to resist as much as possible, especially I think with
online personal branding.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, I think there are a lot of downsides to
personal branding and to having to do it and having
to be visible on the Internet in a way that
is compartmentalized. But I know that there are also upsides
to it. It's a very complicated topic and for that reason,
we wanted to talk to Bridget Todd of the podcast
(02:08):
There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 4 (02:10):
My name is Bridget Todd, I you shee her pronouns,
and I am the creator and host of iHeartRadio's techn
culture podcast called There Are No Girls on the Internet.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
Someone with a great personal brand. I'd say yes, definitely.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
So let's get into our conversation with Bridget. Hi, Bridget,
welcome to one theme. We are so happy to have
you here today.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Uh Eve's my podcast play Cousin. I am so excited
to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
So I have a lot of feelings about social media
and about what branding means, and I definitely rub up
against some friction a lot of the time when I'm
thinking about what branding means and kind of feeling compelled
to come up with the brand and do the active branding.
But I am wondering, since you're very in tune with
social media and digital media strategy, what exactly does personal
(03:04):
branding mean to you?
Speaker 4 (03:06):
To me, personal branding is very powerful. It's a necessary
way to show up online. It is a necessary way
to make sure that the people that you want to
be in conversation with, the people that you want to
give you money to make things that they think of
you when they think of whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
That you specialize in.
Speaker 4 (03:27):
However, I would also say personal branding is really exhausting.
I think that it's something that we are forced to
do because we live in a capitalistic, white supremacy society
that kind of forces us to be not just making
the thing and excited about making the thing, but selling
how we make the thing.
Speaker 5 (03:48):
And yeah, I just don't.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I think that any conversation about personal branding also has
to be rooted with the fact that sometimes it feels
like we are forced to do that kind of work
in addition to the work that we want to be doing.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
So, given your stance on personal branding, give us your
personal brand a bio.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Tell us who we are?
Speaker 5 (04:07):
Oh man, so who I am?
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And as it pertains to my how I've branded myself personally.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Or like yeah, like if we were if I was
a big shot in an elevator who had the money, like,
what would you say to get some off of me?
Speaker 4 (04:21):
First of all, I would say, if you're a billionaire,
you probably didn't get that money ethically.
Speaker 5 (04:24):
So you want to say it funds.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Your conscient No, no, no, no, well no. I did want
to get drunk at a party with very rich people
and I asked somebody how much their house costs.
Speaker 5 (04:34):
My friend was like, that's such a rude question.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
We'll do that when I'm not drunk.
Speaker 4 (04:41):
So if I was in an elevator with a big
shot media professional, I would say that along with my
amazing team, with folks like Tari Harrison and Joey Pat,
I make conversations about technology and the policy and the
people that run it. I make those accessible, and I
make those in ways that highlight the reality that it
(05:01):
is traditionally marginalized people who make technology what it is.
And so we're fostering and curating conversations that really deepen
the perspective of black folks, queer folks, black women, trans folks,
working people, all the kinds of people that are often
left out of conversations about technology, the Internet, social media,
what it means, and the policy.
Speaker 5 (05:21):
That shapes it.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
We start there, like that is our starting point for
those conversations.
Speaker 6 (05:27):
I can tell you've done that before, Bridget.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
I give you some money.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
I'm just gonna know, right, money please, So when you
are thinking about personal branding, like because I've went to
your website and I was and I listened to your show,
I'm like, I truly don't know anything else about you
besides what you like put out there that's pertaining to
your professional career. Like I don't know if you've got
(05:51):
a man, you got a woman, you got kids, I
don't know nothing. I'm like, I'm nosy and I want
to know those things. But I feel like you personally,
like purposely, don't put those out there. So like, what
story are you focused on telling? And what story are you? Like, No,
that's a distraction for why I'm trying to get at Katie.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
That is a very like that is you're good with
your Internet sleuthing because you would have to dig pretty
deep I think to find out personal information about me,
And that is very much with intention and by design,
and I think It goes back to what I personally
have found about my branding is that because I find
(06:26):
personal branding and sort of storytelling about myself online, I
find it kind of exhausting and I don't really like
participating in it that much these days, but I know
I kind of have to because of the career that
I'm in.
Speaker 5 (06:39):
I am very intentional about it.
Speaker 4 (06:40):
I almost would use the phrase like, you know, kind
of neutrally manipulative.
Speaker 5 (06:45):
I don't want any I only want someone.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
To be able to say like, oh, well, she does
x y Z kind of work, she's interested in x
y Z kind of projects. And part of it is
because you know, I care quite a bit about my
work and my professional identity, but my real identity, the
people that I love, my community, my values, all of that.
I kind of hold that a bit closer to my
(07:09):
chest because I don't want that to be something that
is a personal an exhaustive personal branding exercise. Right like
when I'm spending time with my family, I don't want
to feel that I have to be digitally curating a
story about that time. Otherwise it doesn't count. That's just
like not a not a dynamic. I'm really interested in
bringing into certain parts of my life. But I'm happy
(07:30):
to talk about it.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
With you all. In terms of how I brand myself,
it doesn't really show up.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Yes, I've no zy, I want to know. I'll talk
about that after Katie.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
Well, I'm curious how is it shown up for like
how do you two as creatives and hosts and people
who have platforms and make things like how do you
How have you found that dynamic?
Speaker 2 (07:50):
I think we approach very differently.
Speaker 6 (07:53):
Say more about that.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
I think cause like I don't have like a website
about myself or anything I've taken into like also not
like really posting anything about my like family, and I
used to I felt like people would ask me questions.
I just felt like I had to answer, like and
it's like so silly to say it was like you
actually don't have to tell people things just because they
ask you that, Like, oh, guy Ross is asking me
(08:16):
about my grandpa, I have to tell him and I'm
just like, oh no, I don't. So like I've tapered
off of that. I feel like I've grown into like
cause like in my personal life, I'm very like to myself,
like I don't even be telling my friends like every
single thing. So I'm like, why am I telling the
internet every single thing? And I think I got to
that very quickly. It's like, actually, I don't like this,
Like I feel like I don't really have a curated
(08:40):
personal brand. Maybe my personal brand is like not having one,
like being mysterious, I would like think. I was like, yeah,
my agent was like, you need to have a website
and you need to do this, and I'm just like, hmm,
I hear you, but I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 1 (08:54):
So yeah, they tried to do the same thing to me,
like back in like years ago when I first started
hosting pop they were like, you should probably set up
a Twitter. I mean, and look how that's gone today,
you know. But I mean, I have felt compelled to
be to have a public presence, but that that feeling
of being compelled has never actually led me to do
(09:14):
anything that I'm uncomfortable with because at the end of
the day, I know that I have control over what
I choose to share with people and how I choose
to share it. So I have found myself telling myself
that I want to share more, but if that doesn't
show up right in my body, then I don't do it,
so I have shared more in the places where I
feel most comfortable, which for me oftentimes that is if
(09:36):
it's on social media, then that's in the Instagram space.
But if that's outside on the internet, like you know,
just the articles that I write in the podcast that
I produce, those are spaces where I know that I
have creative more creative control, and they're subject to scrutiny
in different ways, or at least more measured scrutiny. I
(09:56):
don't think I have a personal brand either, but I
think maybe one has been construct it for me and
my chosen interest. Actually, speaking of this bridget we've talked
about this before in the title of public intellectual and
how that's something that is like I would be labeled
as regardless whether or.
Speaker 6 (10:13):
Not I would choose to call myself that.
Speaker 5 (10:15):
I mean, you are one.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
I don't think somebody comes down from the sky. And
as like Eves, I w a public intellectual.
Speaker 5 (10:22):
You are one.
Speaker 4 (10:22):
You publicly opined and have good takes and good opinions,
and you're part of the public conversation and people look
to you. The people who are listening to on theme,
they listen to the both of you to help them understand,
you know, what they should be help shape their own opinions,
and so yeah, I think.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
You are a public intellectual.
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Even if you don't feel like you would ever call
yourself one, you both definitely are.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
I feel like I'm getting a therapy session right now
for helping me work through some things.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Well.
Speaker 4 (10:51):
Also, think about all the kinds of people who wouldn't
feel like I just know a lot of people who
are like, oh, I'm a X Y Z expert, and
I'm like, oh, I feel like experts the kind of
thing that other people have to call you.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
It's you're calling yourself one.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
That's interesting, and I think more people who have actual
good things to offer the world should take ownership of
those labels that mean so much.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
So, what would you say you're an expert in?
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Oh? God, nothing, No, that's not true. I am an
expert in this is a good question. I am an
expert in curiosity. I know that's kind of a cop
out answer, but you know, like, that's one of the
reasons why I love podcasting is that you really just
(11:39):
get to poke and product people. And you know, Katie,
you said something earlier and Eves was like, Oh, tell
me more about that. If there was a question that
animates my entire existence in this world and is probably
tell me more about that, because I am just genuinely
very curious about who people are, what motivates them, their values,
where they see themselves, how see the world.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
So I think I'm an expert in curiosity.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So you have your own personal experience with personal branding,
but when you see other people and the ways that
they choose to personal brand in public, what are your
feelings about that? Like, do you have any sort of
initial emotions that come up when you think of the
ways that people have to personal brand on the Internet.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
I don't know if anybody can relate to this feeling,
But lately I have made a lot of intentional efforts
to sort of step back and be a little more
selective about my how my own brand shows up online,
and also I've made the choice to care a little
bit less about it and say, like, if I want
to be a kick ass podcaster, I'm going to lean
into podcasting and the personal branding stuff can come second,
(12:42):
and that's okay. However, lately I have felt like when
I scroll social media, I am just constantly being bombarded
with the ways that I'm getting it wrong the ways
that I'm like, oh, you're not making reels, you should
be making tiktoks like this. You should be offering your
your audience. If you want to grow, do that. And
I think part of that is just the nature of
(13:04):
social media algorithms. It seems like every other month at
a mos Aria, the head of Instagram will be like, oh, well,
last month we told creators if they wanted to use
Instagram to the best of their ability, they should be
doing X.
Speaker 5 (13:16):
Now it's why.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
And I realized that I just have no interest in
being on this hamster wheel while where I have to be,
you know, responding to the whims of billionaires who run
tech platforms who I will never meet, right, And so
I've made that decision for myself. But I don't feel
like it's very easy to sit in that choice all
(13:39):
the time, because constantly I'm bombarded by people who are
doing it right or have the answer, or want to
sell me the answer. I often find other people's personal
branding a little bit exhausting, and it's so just like
me projecting my own insecurities and anxiety around it onto them,
like they're not doing anything wrong. But it sometimes it
(14:00):
seems hard to just exist online without constantly branding yourself
and constantly selling people on who you are. Like, whatever
happened to kicking it online or having fun online or
finding community online in a way that wasn't like just
intentionally branding yourself as some sort of expert in your field.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
Yeah, but that also makes me think about how corporations
and commercial institutions, how their anxieties and their issues have
been projected onto us, and how we've kind of had
to co op them in our own efforts to survive
and live in this world. And I'm wondering if you
(14:40):
see any differences in the way that Black people have
had to operate in that space of being forced to
personal brand to live, and how people of other races
have operated in that space.
Speaker 6 (14:56):
Do you feel differently about them? Do you see a
difference between the two.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
I do see a difference. I think the stakes are
different for us, you know. I mean, I think historically
we have a lot less access, So we have a
lot less access to platforms and spaces and traditional media outlets,
and we've really had to build our own platforms and
spaces and media outlets. If you want to be heard
and want to be able to show up as our
(15:20):
authentic selves.
Speaker 5 (15:21):
That is a gift.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
That is a gift that we as black folks have
always had, is building our own tables when we're not
invited to other people's stables, Right, So I want to
honor the fact that that is a truly a gift
and a legacy.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
So I'm not knocking that.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
However, I think that because of that, we kind of
always have to be doing that, and like there's a
feeling that if you stop doing that, you'll cease to
exist or you'll cease to get those opportunities. And I
actually really do believe that. I think that if I
were to take a year off of social media or
a year off of making my podcast, I think that
(15:57):
it would be that much harder for me to come
back because people will be like, oh, what, like, in
that year, I didn't see you constantly posting what awards
you were winning, or constantly and posting what content you
were making, So I guess you didn't exist, right, And
So I think that because of these because of the
way that historically we have been shut out of that
kind of access, I think it creates this kind of
(16:17):
need to be doing something that luckily we're quite good at,
which is building our own platforms, And I just, yeah,
I just want to make sure that when we talk
about that, we're talking about it in a way that
both honors how great that is, but also is tuned
into how tough that can be, that feeling can be,
to be like, oh, I can't even take a break
for a moment, I always have to be branding.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
Yeah, if we're already black people, is the way I'm
talking about already subject to so much scrutiny because even
when we're visible in the very smallest of ways. So
what do you think that kind of loop of visibility,
of having to be present at all times just by
nature of the Internet, but also because we're black, How
(16:59):
does does that affect like how we are treated in
terms of our visibility and hyper visibility.
Speaker 4 (17:07):
Hypervisibility is a good word for it, because it's like,
as black folks who show up online, we're both hyper visible,
but in a lot of ways erased or overlooked. And
it's just very interesting to me how you can sort.
Speaker 5 (17:19):
Of be both.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
I've had accomplishments in my life where things happen in
my life that I don't put on social media and
people act like they don't exist, and so I'm really
challenging myself to sort of resist that internally. And I
really think about this quote from MICHAELA. Cole when I
think she won an Emmy, and she said, in a
world that entices us to browse through the lives of
(17:41):
others to help us better determine how we feel about ourselves,
and to in turn feel the need to be constantly visible.
For visibility these days seems to somehow equate to success.
Do not be afraid to disappear from it, from us
for a while and see what comes to you in
the silence. And I have always found so much power
in that quote, because when you have that silence and
(18:03):
that space where there aren't eyes on you, for me,
that has equated to really making something I'm proud of,
or really being able to lean into something right.
Speaker 5 (18:12):
And so I think that in a.
Speaker 4 (18:13):
World that tells us that visibility is success, not being
afraid to step back and go invisible, go dark for
a little bit, you know, I think it's really powerful
to be able to do that and understand what the
power in that in a world that tells you always have.
Speaker 5 (18:29):
To be showing yourself and branding yourself more.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
With bridget after this break. Have you ever taken a
social media break?
Speaker 5 (18:44):
Oh? All the time? I mean I'm not. I'm not
somebody who will be like, hey, guys taking a.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Break, Like like, nobody cares, my girl.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
You could have kept that to yourself'll take a nap, right, Like.
Speaker 1 (19:04):
We wouldn't have known if that was the algorithm or
them taking a break anyway.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
I definitely take long breaks, short breaks, all the breaks
from social media, and I don't feel the need to
announce it. But isn't it so weird that you would
even feel the need to announce it, Like there's like
how many other things in your life. If you stop
doing it for a week or a month, would people
be like, oh, are you okay?
Speaker 5 (19:23):
What's going on with you?
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Like if you didn't play a certain game for a month,
do you think that you would feel the need to
like announce that to the world. I just think that
that really, to me illustrates how we're so caught up
in this idea that everybody, everybody has to be on
social media all the time, and that you know that's
not true, Like you can dip in, dip out, do
it as it feels comfortable and right to you, and
(19:46):
truly nothing will happen.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
I think that also goes to the difference between personal
branding online versus personal branding like IRL, because I don't
think people paid that much more. People pay more attention
to the online then like there in person presence. So
like you're going to think about like what outfit you're
posting when you're posting online, and you're going to craft
(20:08):
your caption really well, and you're going to like have
all this thought. But when you're out in the streets,
you're looking a mess, You've got a bond it on,
and you're talking crazy to the people at American Deli,
Like you're not really thinking too much about your personal brand.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
And when people apologize for that, they do it online,
like when they apologize for their public presence. I've seen
people say I had to where I couldn't go outside
today because I wasn't. They'll say things about like wearing makeup,
or wearing a bond it out or not being dressed
to the nons, you know, not having their faces beat
and apologize for that because they know that might show
up online in a certain way, but not necessarily because
(20:42):
they care about how that personal interaction in real life went.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
So yeah.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
I mean, by the way, i'm pro bonnet outside just
putting that up out.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I'm just saying people will apologize for things like that
because they want to be perceived a certain way, because
they know their brand will show up.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
Yeah, but it's like the personal branding, Yeah, I'd like
the obsession with it doesn't really for I think for
most people, it doesn't show up outside unless you're like
on a panel or at a conference, but like just
how you move every day, I don't see that as much.
Speaker 4 (21:17):
There is this weird kind of collapse that I see
between in real life and online evens where it's like, yeah,
somebody might have an interaction offline that is in some
ways authentically them because they're not branding it. It's just happening,
you know, off the cuff or whatever, and then go
online to talk about that interaction in a way that
(21:40):
is part of the brand. It's so interesting how these
online and offline realities have kind of collapsed. And I
do think that if something like in a lot of ways,
the digital realm has become more real than reality in
some ways where it only sort of matters how it
shows up online, or how it's branded online and how
it shows up in reality is a lot In a
(22:02):
lot of cases, it's a lot less important to folks.
Speaker 3 (22:04):
I think, yeah, for sure, are you familiar with the
Google for faces pim eyes? Oh?
Speaker 2 (22:12):
Yes, so I just learned about that, I think last week.
Are you familiar with the use?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
So it's basically like, if say I have a picture
of you, and you can have a mask on, you
can have your eyes closed, you can be like looking
a different way. I can put that into that and
it would show every instance where your face appears online,
whether you posted it, whether you're just like in the
background of somebody else's picture, just everything, And like learning
about that really just like made me want to just
(22:40):
go further away from not branding myself. Like I was, like,
I want to remove every picture of myself from online,
just because like I think when we first started doing this,
I would say like for us, maybe like the early
twenty tens, we had no idea like what the internet
was going to be, and so like now in twenty
twenty four, I feel like we still don't have a
(23:02):
true idea, but we see a little bit more and
to me, it's like very scary what the internet is
about to be.
Speaker 5 (23:08):
Yeah, I completely agree.
Speaker 4 (23:11):
You know, I think I might be a little older
than both of you, But I remember when I first
got Facebook. I was an undergrad in college and I
graduated college in two thousand and seven, two thousand and seven,
and this was when the main thing was like, you
are connecting with your friends, You are going out to
a nightclub, you are taking.
Speaker 5 (23:30):
A thousand pictures from.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
That single outing, posting all of them pistays, and all
of them for sure pit stains. Yeah, like albums, right,
And so I think that was sort of that the heyday,
when we really really kind of it was easy to
think of this as something that was about connection. Here
in twenty twenty four, I don't think that anybody feels
like social media platforms are offering us genuine connection anymore.
(23:53):
I think what they're offering us is exploitation. I think
what they're offering us is anxiety. I think what they're
offering us is surveillance, criminalization, all kinds of things. And
I think that you know that idea of connecting with
your friends, even if you look at your if you
if you open Instagram right now and scroll your you know.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
Whatever their version of their feed.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
A lot of the stuff that you're being shown is
it from your friends or people that you've opted to follow.
It's algorithmically generated content that they want you to see
that they think that you might like, right, And so
I think that what is I think we should be
asking what that means for our role in all of this,
how we fit into that if social media platforms are
going to go to a place where it's more about
(24:35):
like surfacing you content than connection.
Speaker 5 (24:37):
So if you're no longer connecting with your.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
Friends, are we all like Katie Eves and Bridget are
we all now de facto content creators?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
Or or what like? Are we the audience here?
Speaker 4 (24:46):
I think that we really need to have a more
refined role in how we fit into this because the
two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, two thousand
and eight days are like way behind us in terms
of how this is all working.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
We're living in president at times, but we've been doing
so for for a while now. It's not like, oh,
we have like one one event that happens. It's like
ooh that was unpresidented, Glad that's over. It's just like
all of it, like the evolution of it is just like,
oh my god, like what's the next what are.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
We going to do?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
And as a podcaster, Bridget, I'm interested in getting your
take on like who owns our personal brands? Because it
sounds like, oh, it's our personal brand, we own it.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
But you know, like as.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Contractors, like do we own those or is it you
know XYZ Corporation media conglomerate that owns our personal branding?
Speaker 2 (25:40):
What do you think about that?
Speaker 5 (25:42):
Well?
Speaker 4 (25:42):
As a company girl, I have to shout out the
good folks that iHeart radio definitely own my brand and
all of the things that come with it.
Speaker 5 (25:49):
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 4 (25:50):
I mean I think your question is it's like a
really good one. I am I might be a weird
person to ask because I'm particular about ownership, right If
you ever watched that show Breaking Bad and Walter White,
one of the reasons it's like revealed by that one
of the reasons why he's so weird about his meth
recipe is that he was cut out of a cut
(26:12):
out of a deal when he was a scientist and
he didn't have ownership over a product that he made,
and it like stuck with him. I kind of feel
like that's a little bit of my origin story too,
where I am a real I am very particular about ownership.
I would rather get screwed on the money and have
more ownership of something. I don't know if that's like
the best choice, but part of it is because of
(26:33):
that discomfort around who owns what. I just hate the
idea that something that I create right, something that I conceptualized,
that I put my heart and soul into, that came
from me, that was that was colored by all of
the experiences that I have brought with me to this world,
that somebody else could be like, oh well, that's just
(26:54):
another point in our annual sales meeting about how we're
doing right. So like I am very I'm like very
weird about that kind of thing, and I do. I mean,
I've had situations where the line of ownership who owns
what about me and my work and my brand isn't
so clear, And so these days I'm trying to really
(27:14):
move through the creative professional world with a lot more
clarity about where the lines are about who owns what about?
You know, who has the final say, who has control,
who makes the money all of that because I think
it's I think you need to you know, I don't
want to get too into it, but like when I
was first coming up in podcasting, I've signed some deals
(27:34):
that I wish I had looked at a little closer,
because I would see, like, oh, I'm I'm inherently, both
in the work and on paper, just generating stuff for
other people. And so no matter how much of myself
I put into that, I'm only going to ever be
generating for others as supposed to generating for myself. And
so yeah, I feel a bit burned on that in
(27:56):
some ways and really trying to move now with a
little more clarity around it, but again as creative. So
it'd be really curious how you all are navigating that
as well.
Speaker 5 (28:05):
Well.
Speaker 6 (28:05):
I was just about to say you are.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
You would not be the only person to say that, Bridget,
And I think it's like comforting to hear that coming
from you, a person who's worked on so many podcasts,
because these deals were happening then and they're still happening now,
and yeah, I think pretty difficult to navigate because if
you're working with the company, there's going to be some
trade offs, and the question is that you have to
(28:27):
ask yourself, like what are those trade offs to you?
Speaker 6 (28:28):
And what are the most important parts of it to you?
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Those questions are often about ownership, and I think that
I in the past have not been like competent enough,
or I haven't had the team on my side, like
a good lawyer on my side to be able to
tell me what the right things were. So I've been
able to learn from crowdsourcing and the sharing of information,
which has been amazing.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Information is power. If anybody listening wants like DM me,
I will, I will give you my contracts, I'll give
you my lawyer's name, right, Like It's the only way
that we will ever take up more space in this
industry is if we share information. This mindset that like, oh,
we have to be cling to what you have because
you don't want her to get it or her to
get it. That's complete bullshit, Like there's enough room for
(29:11):
all of us. We need to have that mindset, and
we will all win and rise up when we share
information with each other.
Speaker 5 (29:16):
And yeah, I to that point.
Speaker 4 (29:18):
He's like, whenever I see companies that are hosting, like, oh,
we're doing a contest where if you submit your idea,
maybe we'll make your show. I'm always like in the
Instagram comments like, Hey, what's the ownership look like?
Speaker 5 (29:33):
What's the IP look like? Great contest? Like do they
own it?
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Like?
Speaker 5 (29:36):
How does it work? What's the adsplit?
Speaker 4 (29:39):
Yay?
Speaker 5 (29:40):
Like that's me in the comments asking those questions.
Speaker 3 (29:42):
I was at a festival and they had one of
those like activations like picture podcasts.
Speaker 5 (29:46):
I was like, don't do.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Good.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
Yeah, And I think for black people in podcasting and
in writing in general, I've come up against that question
of like what I choose to share and what I
don't choose to share because as a creator, it's it's
like the generative process and a part of the process
that there can be fear around. But it can be
important to share certain things and to not be afraid
to put yourself out there all the time. But especially
(30:12):
as black creators in American media, it's important for us
to protect ourselves and the work that we create. So
it can definitely be a fine line to tiptoe. We'll
be back with more conversation with bridget after this break.
Speaker 3 (30:33):
I think it goes beyond just sharing information, honestly, Like
I can speak to it from the book publishing side
of it. And I'm getting like less than fifteen percent
of list price.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
And I have done all the work on this book.
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I thought of the idea, I've gotten all the people together,
I'm designing it and I'm not a designer, but I'm
like showing the designer everything that I want to do.
I've written everything, I travel, you know, all these things,
and I'm getting less than fifteen percent of list price.
So like even if I told somebody that coming in,
like if I said, ease, I'm getting this much like okay,
like maybe you can get like one more person, but
like I don't know, I don't think like that's truly
(31:09):
going to make a change. And like a lot of
people's books are very personal, Like I don't know if
y'all read the memoir Heavy by Kisa Leiman, but it's
like a very personal book. And the books you've written before,
it's like got one thousand dollars total for those books,
And it's like this is the publishing industry, Like this
is what they do, like even if you're going to
be a really big name. So I think it goes
(31:30):
beyond sharing information and like actually, like you said, like
making our own thing and like having it cooperatively owned
and not like wanting to like cozy up with these
like big companies, which I know is like so like
hard to not think is really cool. But I feel
like every time I think something's really cool and I'm like, fuck,
this isn't cool.
Speaker 4 (31:48):
It's not no, you know what, you know, those big
companies aren't cool.
Speaker 5 (31:51):
You know what's cool? Katie's cool, Like you know, you're cool,
like it.
Speaker 4 (31:56):
It's such a weird it's such a you're so right,
it's such a hard thing to turn off that being
associated with x y Z big brand or big company
or big publisher or big network or whatever that is going.
Speaker 5 (32:06):
To make me feel successful. And it's just not true.
Speaker 4 (32:09):
And it's like half the time those deals don't look
as shawny as they as they appear on the outside
on Instagram. Right, And you're so right that I think
it's not just information sharing. It goes beyond that of like,
here's the reality of what it looked like for me
to work with this company, so that you can decide
if it's worth it for you to work with this
company to only get X y Z of the price, right,
(32:29):
And I agree, I think it really has to go
back to building more abundant models for us to put
our stories and ideas out there that don't involve having
to cozy up with companies just because they have a
big name but a terrible reputation about how they treat people.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
Yeah, And I also think it goes back to the
personal branding, because I will be the first tie to say, like,
I'm like a I like making an announcement about my book,
Like I have a book deal with the biggest publisher
in the world, and it's just like, well, and I'm
not going to be like and I'm getting like shitty
royalties and like all this stuff like all that, you know,
because I want to get my Instagram like so off
and for people to buy the book to tell me congratulations.
(33:05):
I think it goes back to like the personal branding,
like yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
And that makes me think about just going back to
our initial ideas around this about how personal branding is
a form of storytelling. We craft a certain story about
ourselves when we're telling our personal brands. We choose to
give this, we choose not to give that. And I
pulled a definition from personal brand dot Com, which I
had no idea existed before this episode, but they specifically, say,
(33:33):
a personal brand is a widely recognized and largely uniform
perception or impression of an individual based on their experience, expertise, competencies, actions, YadA, YadA, YadA.
Speaker 6 (33:44):
All the rest of that definition. You can go look
it up. But the point.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Is is that it's clearly a crafted thing. It is
when we create our personal brands, we are thinking. We're
being intentional about what we choose to share and what
we don't based on how we want to be seen.
So I know that we've used the word authentic a
couple of times in this conversation. I was wondering, Bridget,
if you think it's even possible for us to be
authentic and maintain a sense of self in how we
(34:09):
express ourselves when we are doing this personal branding.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Oh, absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
I mean I think I think, based on the definition
that you just read that I agree with and our
conversation here, I think it's I mean, I don't think
it's a lie.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
You know, when Katie says like.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
Oh, I have this great book, deal with this great
publisher and all of that, leaving out the bit about
the parts that maybe aren't so exciting that she's not
doesn't not thrilled about.
Speaker 5 (34:36):
That's not a lie. It's just selective.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
It's just you're only getting a partial view into it
that Katie wants to control, right, And that makes all
the sense in the world. So I don't think it's
I don't think it's inauthentic to mean dishonest, but I
do think it's selective and we should all like have
that in our minds when we're scrolling Instagram, you know
every day that we're not getting the full lens into
whatever whatever is actually going on with you. But when
(35:00):
they're branding themselves online, like I'm not giving my full
self and how these things feel for me when I'm
branding myself, and I don't think the people that I'm
consuming their content.
Speaker 5 (35:09):
I don't think that they are either.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
And I would also add, like, I think that it's
really important to be branding yourself online if you're a
person making something in twenty twenty four. However, I think
that I've really found power in doing it, understanding that
I have to do it, but then not really putting
too much stock into it because how many likes my
(35:32):
stuff gets or whatever it feels good. Like it's like
a like who doesn't like it when they're when like
all their friends are in the comments like gay, good job.
But you really have to like have a sense of
what success looks like, like what nourishment looks like for you. Right, So,
Like I know stories that I want to tell, the
work I want to put out. I know how closely
(35:53):
it aligns with my actual values. Those are the kinds
of things that make me feel like a successful creative.
And I have to be really clear about that. They that,
like are the benchmarks of success for me? And what
are not the benchmarks of success for me?
Speaker 5 (36:05):
What just like feels.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Good and if I'm having a bad day might give
me a pickup, right, And so I think it's important
to not conflate those two things.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, I also think it's important to acknowledge how that
self selection, even though we have agency when we're doing it,
it can also be exhausting. Like just because we're doing
something we have control over doesn't mean that it doesn't
also take like a mental and spiritual toll on us
having to segment those parts of ourselves. Because black people
we have to compartmentalize in so many different ways already.
(36:34):
We have to be respectable sometimes, you know, we have
to tone shift. We have to do so many different
things of like how we think about how we appear
to other people in order to ensure our safety. So
when we self select in doing that and personal branding,
I think some of those things can also come up
around how it takes a toll on our bodies and
(36:54):
how it takes a toll on our spirits. And I
think that is also an important thing to acknowledge, because
both of those things can exist at the same time.
Speaker 5 (37:06):
I'm so glad you said that.
Speaker 4 (37:07):
And yeah, and it's so funny that you could be
crafting and in control of your personal brand, but still
very aware of like needing or wanting to come off
as a certain way, like more palatable or something.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
And it's like, if there's ever a time where you
should be the person in.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Control of how you show up, it's like your little
corner of the Internet.
Speaker 5 (37:26):
But I don't feel that way. I wonder if you
all feel that way.
Speaker 4 (37:30):
You know, I don't really want to be in spaces
where I have to show up a certain way in
order to be accepted there. However, even as I curate
my little corner of my personal brand Internet, I am
aware of that sort that sort of double consciousness that
you're talking about.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
I think, Yeah, I feel like if I truly showed
up how I am, I would be on like an
FBI's most Wanted list.
Speaker 5 (37:58):
We'd all have black black pillowcases in some secret room.
Speaker 2 (38:02):
Like, girl, I ain't even trying to get that deep
with y'all for real.
Speaker 1 (38:05):
Like, and then are often times of dissonance for me
where I feel like I'm branded a certain I can
go look at my website. Y'all know I'm Southern. Y'all
know I'm gonna say y'all, y'all know I'm gonna be
in front of things. And then like you know, when
I'm in certain rooms, I mean, that's how I am,
That's my personality oftentimes, but you know that excuse me, yeah,
(38:26):
but that that there's a dissonance between my brand and
like how I do show up in some ways, not
necessarily because I am cutting off parts of myself, just
because I'm multiple people, Like I'm different ways in different places.
So also speaking of being multiple people and showing up
in different ways, I would have never expected you Bridget
(38:47):
to align yourself with Walter White.
Speaker 6 (38:49):
But so that's something I wasn't expecting you to say.
Speaker 1 (38:53):
There is one thing I wanted to say, just that
I think we would be remiss or I would be
remiss not to say that you were part of information
sharing for us, Bridget as we were doing this podcast,
Like you shared your contract with us. So when y'all
hear Bridget say that, know that she's telling the truth.
I would do the same. You know, anybody can come
to me. I will be transparent about that. And I
can't solve all your problems.
Speaker 6 (39:14):
I'm not a lawyer.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
I don't know intellectual property law. You know, there are
other people who would need to be on your support team,
but I would be happy to be of whatever kind
of assistance.
Speaker 6 (39:25):
I would like to be.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
Oh my gosh, this is my favorite topic. Like I
will tell you how much money I make, down to
the penny. I will like, like, I'm curious about other
creatives how much money they make. There's so much smoke
and mirrors, so like I want to know how much
your house cost. I will ask the question, and I'm
happy to give that information back to others.
Speaker 3 (39:47):
And now it is time for role credits, the segment
where we give credit to a person, place, or thing,
and we have Bridget joining us, But first Eves who
are what would you like to give credit to today?
Speaker 1 (39:57):
I would like to give credit to t I'm not
a big coffee drinker, and I didn't become a big
warm tea specifically.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
I'm an iced tea hater, so don't ask me why.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
I don't like sweet tea and I'm from the South,
but I love hot tea.
Speaker 6 (40:11):
I love drinking green tea in the morning.
Speaker 1 (40:13):
I like macha, but I like other kinds of tea too,
And I can somehow handle the caffeine from tea, but
I can't handle the caffeine from coffee.
Speaker 6 (40:20):
It makes me very dittery. But I love tea.
Speaker 1 (40:23):
I like get and tea when I'm in different places.
And I don't know as much about it as I
would like to like. I would like to learn a
lot more. I know people who are master herbalists when
it comes to tea. But yeah, I want to give
a shout out to tea today.
Speaker 2 (40:35):
Okay, Tea, what's tea? Brigit? What you've given a shout
out to given credit to me?
Speaker 4 (40:40):
I'm going to give a shout out to journaling. I
have not been one to journal that often. I'm kind
of on and off. But I had a weird kind
of personal professional situation and I went back and was
reading my journal entries about it because I was like,
am I Am I being crazy here in reading my
journal entries. I like, no, actually, I'm being I'm very
(41:03):
clear on how I feel. And if I had not
written down how I felt through the situation, I think
I would have really second guessed myself and dabted myself.
And so yeah, I don't I want to give it
up to journaling.
Speaker 5 (41:14):
Keep a journal.
Speaker 3 (41:16):
I would like to give credit to neighbors. I live
in a neighborhood where most of the people are like
old and retired, and you know, they see a young
hot bitch and they do you hate in a little bit.
But this past weekend they were not hating, and they
invited me over to their shindig that they have every
week and they never invite me to but they seem
(41:38):
nice and they kind of were just like, oh, like,
we didn't know how to invite you. And you kind
of forget that people are like weird and just like, oh,
like you're weird, they're weird. Like maybe they y'all are
both thinking weird things about each other. But it's fun
when you like have that like neighborly bond with someone
like you don't got to be friends, but like you
can be like in community and like you know, borrow
(41:59):
the lawnmower something. So give me credit to tea journaling
and neighbors.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
All right, well then, Bridgie, can you tell everyone where
they can find you on the internet.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
Be sure to listen to my podcast there are no
girls on the Internet twice a week.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
You can find that on.
Speaker 4 (42:18):
Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. And
you can find me on Instagram at bridget Marie ndc Perfect.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Thank you, this has been a dream. Thank you so
much for having me, and honestly, thanks so much to
you too. Congratulations to you and the whole team on
launching on Theme. You know, thank you for what you're
doing to elevate our stories. It's really such a beautiful
special thing.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
So congratulations and we will see you next week.
Speaker 2 (42:48):
Bye.
Speaker 5 (42:49):
Hi.
Speaker 1 (42:54):
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
This episode written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It
was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us on
Instagram at on themeshow. You can also send us an
email at hello at on Theme dot show. Head to
on themet Show to check out the show notes for episodes.
(43:17):
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