July 11, 2024 • 46 mins
Black haircare YouTubers built a brand-new storytelling genre from the ground up. So today on the podcast, Yves and Katie give them their much-deserved credit. Then they speak with LaToya Ebony, a content creator and actress who's been giving us haircare game on YouTube for over a decade.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get
into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving
connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really
been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it
if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe
to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all,
Now time for the episode. On theme is a production
(00:22):
of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media. Hey, y'all, welcome
(00:45):
to our channel.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm Katie and I'm Eves, and you're tuned into Friends.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
With FROs, a channel where we show you how to
pretty fi your puff.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
How to let your silk press sing and big.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Chop Bellow, how to help your braids go from busted to.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And how to let your kitchen cook because naps are
what Eves natural.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We'll make sure your hair is looking right so you
can keep fighting the good fight.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's right. This channel is all about pro black hair hair.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So without further ado, let's get into today's tutorial.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Today's episode wash day Woes.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Early in my high school years, I stopped getting perms,
and it wasn't really a principal thing. They just didn't
work for me. They burned no matter what I did.
I hated the process and upkeep, and I wasn't the
biggest fan of how I looked with my straight hair anyway.
And my mother didn't get relaxers, so I saw what
(01:43):
it was like to live without, so I decided to
let my hair grow out without getting touchups.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I do remember when you went natural, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It was a rough period, but so freeing that I
didn't have to deal with the creamy crack anymore. So
I committed to growing it all out, got made fun
of here and there, and eventually had a head free
of relaxer chemicals.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I went natural a couple years later than you when
I was in college, I think my sophomore year or
right after my sophomore year. But you're definitely like one
of the people I look to. I was like, well, East,
what natural? So I can too?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh yeah. But for me, throughout that whole transition, I
never would have made it. Q Marvin sapp if it
weren't for the natural hair YouTube girlies.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
They have given so many people free game.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, ma'am, and I was one of them. Now, they
weren't super popping on YouTube around the time that I
started my process. At first, I was reading articles on
old hair blogs with tiny pictures, scrolling through the comments
section looking for folks who could co sign or condemn
the tips given by the author, you know, trying to
figure out what the hell and loc method is. The
(02:56):
struggle was real, but baby, when folks started putting hair
tutorials up on YouTube, it was a game changer. And now,
years after the phenomenon first blew up, we have been
blessed with so much information, so much value, and look,
a lot of it is wrong, girl, But to be honest,
all the misinformation is one of my favorite parts about
(03:17):
the whole genre.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Now you're gonna explain that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Okay, okay, hear me out first, the misinformation begets reality
TV worthy drama. People have called out YouTubers on how
their advice is just flat out wrong. Sometimes the trends
don't be having no basis. In fact, it's just all
vibes and that's entertainment, yes. But second, and less messy
than that point is that we all end up learning together,
(03:42):
Like figuring out how to care for your individual hair
is a whole process and we have to experiment anyway,
So we're making mistakes and updating our knowledge when we
learn from it collectively. And third, the misinformation is indicative
of the whole genre. Starting as an each one tach
one project, it was black folks showing other black folks
how to do their hair, and the educators were on
(04:05):
a wide spectrum of experience and professional status, So of
course some debris came in with a tide. If you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I'm catching your drift. That makes sense. Folks from all
backgrounds definitely felt empowered to share whatever ounce of knowledge
they had and a lot of folks have benefited from that.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, And since the birth of the genre, its creators
have gone through a lot having to figure out how
many more ways they can spin a twisted updo for content,
upgrading their filming equipment and setup.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Ooh, figuring out how to show what they're actually doing
in the tutorial.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh my god, child, I'm saying, detailing washday routines, peddling
weed for foreign companies, arguing about the merits of hair types,
hair porosity, washing, weekly oil usage, prepoods, protein treatments, you
name it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
They have the whole storytelling genre from the ground up.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Exactly what I'm saying point number one. Think about the
way is that hair YouTubers format their videos to be
able to educate us best. The ways that they narrate,
the intros they use I got beef with those but alas,
the obligatory slow mode three sixty and glamour shots at
the end of the video all hallmarks of the genre
that creators built and solidified over time. Our nervous systems
(05:19):
know what to expect when tuning in to a hair
video at this point.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's given formulaic, it's giving Shakespearean play, it's giving aque
Act two, Act three, it's giving climax, it's giving falling action.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
All of the things. They created a set of standards
and practices that they use for their brand of visual storytelling.
We're used to our parents and aunties and family friends
showing us how to do hair, but filming it staying
engaging but not belaboring points, learning what to cut and
what to keep, working with technology and figuring out how
to get people to see it all. In the end,
(05:53):
they have put in work to create quality content that
actually feeds the people and looks good, and.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
They've honed the craft in such a short period of
time formula is tight as car rolls after a fresh.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Install, crispy as greased parts.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So what's your next point?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
This one's related to the artistry of it all too.
It's that hair YouTubers are all the archetypes that we
see in our favorite stories. They're unreliable narrators. Like I
said earlier, they don't always know what they're talking about,
and something they say that works for them will absolutely
not work for everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
They're also unsung heroes. They've saved me once or dice.
Let's be real a million times when I couldn't think
of a style to put on my head.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yep, And they're villains. Let a non perm YouTuber get
a relaxer and watch the people turn on her with
a quickness.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
In the comments, cussing name Colin.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
They inhabit the roles of celebrities as they gain audience
and visibility, struggling artists when they're learning hair techniques, mentors
as they teach us new hairstyles and hair care methods
and introduce us to new products. And when someone's doing
their thing on YouTube for a while, it can be
a whole coming of age story. You get to see
how they and their hair grow and evolve, we see
(07:03):
their channel grow, we see them get married or have kids,
and we see them decide to stop sharing on YouTube,
or we see them come out with their own product lines,
like Layla Washington of the YouTube channel Fusion of Cultures,
who started a skincare company called Wilsea Botanicals.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
All that main character and energy.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yep, and that leads me to my next point. The
genre and as creators carry some weight. They have a
big presence on YouTube. They created a community that's been
thriving for more than a decade now. Their followers are
super engaged, partly due to the fact that YouTubers are
charismatic and beautiful and personable and doing things that are
aspirational for lots of people, but also because of the
(07:42):
nature of the beast. We're interacting with the content in
the most authentic way, taking the creator's advice and tips
and using them on our own or on others' bodies,
and we might be watching their videos over and over again,
rewinding and replaying.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
They've had a definite impact on creator culture on YouTube.
A lot of hair YouTubers like Whitney White, also known
as Natural eighty five, are ogs in the YouTube content
creation lane.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
They became more than just people who knew how to
do hair. They were bloggers, influencers, entrepreneurs. They started getting
paid the big bugs, by sponsors and YouTube itself. Once
they started doing numbers, their recommendations bought or not drove
many of their adherents to purchase items that they wouldn't
even think about needing had their favorite YouTuber not used
(08:31):
it in their latest upload.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Girl and some of those products collected dust. Popularity came
and went, some just fell out of favor, and some
just weren't great to begin with.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
True, but we can't deny how these YouTubers filled a
gap that was growing as more Black people embraced their
natural hair journeys and sought a vice from bloggers. Not
that we weren't embracing it before.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
See Black as Beautiful and the glorious froze of the
sixties and seventies.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For sure, It's just that the phrase slash concept of
a natural hair journey was gaining steam as a measurable
phenomenon in the early oughts. And speaking of airs and hair,
this takes me into the next point, which is this
one's pretty simple. Hair YouTubers are documentarians. They document changes
in style over time. I can look back at videos
(09:20):
from past years and see when Senegalese twists, Voho braids
are band two knots were really popping. Through their videos,
we get a timeline of black hair trends.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And sometimes the YouTubers are the ones setting those trends.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And amplifying them by sharing them and spreading them to
wider audiences. So my next point is the last. But
who would we be if we didn't make you wait
to get it till after the break.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
We're ready for you.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Last point, all right, this is my favorite one. That's
why I saved it for last, is that as a whole,
black YouTubers have used the art the storytelling to help
us consider our relationship to our hair and how it evolves.
They've made us think about how we best love on
our hair, consider the reasons we want to reject perms
and embrace the kinks or not. They've made us question
(10:15):
our hair care practices and pay more attention to what
we're doing to our hair and why. They've encouraged us
to consider what brands we support, where we direct our money.
They've given us direction when we needed it most and
they've spurred innovation in the hair care industry. They have
helped us think more critically and act more intentionally around
black hair.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And that's what the best storytellers do. Make you think
more critically right and actually spur action in the real world.
I know, seeing the girls with the big afros, you know,
hair goals, hair goals, and now I can look and
see myself with a big aufro. I'm like, dang, I'm
really my own hair goals.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Did you see yourself like this in the future when
you first started watching them?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted my hair to be long as
it is, Like I wanted to be long month too,
Like what's going on here? I think at first when
you start looking at these YouTubers, you're really impatient. But
now like on once your hair is like at the
length where you're like, okay, I can like do these
styles that I want to do. You're kind of like
more relaxed about it, you know, but also like happy
(11:22):
to see other people really experimenting with their hair. I
don't experiment with my hair that much anymore, but being
able to see how people like tell stories with their hair,
Like there's that one girl who like does sculptures with
her locks. You know that. Yeah, I've seen her, Like
there's so many cool ways to do it. But then
also just like living your life with your natural hair.
It's like that's also like a story that we're telling
(11:44):
is like a collective, right, because I think when like
our parents was raising us and putting it on in
perms in our hair, like that was like a different
mindset that people were having. Absolutely, and so now like
you don't really see little kids with perms like that.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And I was singing the just for Me themes on
the other day. Yeah, like that's how ingrained it was.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
They were it. You're like, dang, I want to look
like her.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
When that yes, it poked out to the side, it hurt.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, And like so to see that shift collectively is
really interesting. And I liked what you said about these
YouTubers being documentarians because I remember when the Lemonade raids
was it, you know, like be yes, they had the
girls shook when that hair, you know what I'm saying.
So like being able to see those different iterations because
you know, like YouTube's been around for a minute now,
so it's it's really like a great archive of like
(12:33):
what everyone was doing with their hair.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, and I'm not the fondest of this phrase, but
I'm going to use it now anyway because I think
it's fitting. They are kind of thought leaders in a
way when it comes to hair. Because when you just
said something about you wanted your hair to be really long,
that made me think about how much we prioritize length.
And I think a lot of that did have to
do with the way that YouTubers were sharing. Like I know,
a lot of that is also society things that are
(12:56):
deeply ingrained in US, but I think there were so
many like videos about length checks on YouTube. It's like okay,
Liane check and the best way to do your line.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Check white t shirt. Yeah, wear the same shirt every time.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And different tips for being able to get your hair longer,
like when that chebe thing got really big, like putting
mud on your hair was something to You're looking at
me like you have no idea what it is. Girl,
that's how deep it goes.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Please skip me.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
And I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right,
but it's just there have been so many things to
help you with hair length, and so many YouTubers talking
about how your hair is growing, it's about length retention,
and this is how you keep it. Make sure you trimp.
After that, it felt like there was a swing back
toward your hair is great at any length, and I'm
looking for people with TWA's who can do this. Are
(13:45):
I feel like when I go to YouTube that I
can't find people. I always see people who are doing
styles that don't relate to me because I have four
sea hair or something like that. So it's interesting to
see how the thoughts that leaders on YouTube when it
comes to hair start to resonate and ripple throughout black folks.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, speaking of like the I can't find someone with
four sea hair conversation, one, I think with hair YouTube,
there are a lot of like cliches and like tropes,
Like you said, like your hair is growing, it's about retention,
like people saying like the same thing over and over again.
But then also I think, just like I think one
of the major tennants maybe this was like a twenty
tens YouTuber thing, and it's indicative of like larger issues
(14:32):
in like black storytelling is like the racially ambiguous or
like biracial person who just like has long, curly hair,
not because of the routine they're doing just because like girl,
you're mixed with white and your hair is gonna curl
that certain way or elevated. But you see it perpetuating
these like different ways of storytelling that you wouldn't think
(14:54):
would seep into like someone's bathroom or bedroom, but the
way that the audience reacts to them is very similar.
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I think that reflects the way that it's changed over time,
because there was an era, and you'll see in some
of these people's videos that we mentioned in today's episode,
like for a Natural eighty five who has a My
Natural Haircare Journey video from like two thousand or nine
years ago, so from a while ago where it was
just her showing pictures of herself. There is no narration happening,
(15:23):
there is her showing a tutorial, There is no edit
of an intro in the beginning, music only played in
specific spots. All of the things that come with videos
that people make on hair YouTube today and over time
that morphed into Okay, I understand, I'm a personality and
people need to come to my page. Okay, I get
subscribers and this is how I do it. Okay, YouTube's
(15:44):
algorithm is changing. I feel like I can say with
confidence that back then it wasn't as much about getting
more people to see. They cared about sharing, of course
that's why they posted it, but it wasn't so prioritized
to gain more followers or gain more engagement. And also
all of the hate that came with it afterwards. You know,
(16:05):
they had to combat about against that over time too.
So it's more I guess, freedom to be able to
put up what you want, how you want, versus there's
more thinking now around. Okay, I can't say this, I
can't be this real. I can only be a little
bit real. I have to be this authentic with the
capital a that everybody use about people on social media
(16:26):
these days, so people understand it as more of a
storytelling platform now that is meant to be constructed, and
that's why all of these expectations like you mentioned have entered.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, the Internet has just changed since they first started, Right,
Like people weren't personalities, people weren't getting so much money
for like posting themselves doing their hair. But like once
you know, all these sponsorships get involved, once you realize
people can look at the view out your window and
see what city you live in and you've said your
(17:01):
last name a few too many times that they can
pull up on you, like it really changes the dynamic
of how you can share, even if it is about
something like hair. It's also, I think, like a small
microcus of just like how the Internet has changed and
how we've changed along with the Internet.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And there are videos now that people are posting about
how hair YouTubers are struggling. So I just feel like
now is a good time to think about this because
I know they're still going you know, of course, they're
still making videos about hair on YouTube, like their channels
are still popping. I'm not saying that they're not, but
it definitely is a different landscape now. But there are
(17:38):
people who are posting videos saying content creators in the
hairspace on YouTube are struggling, like it's harder for them
to gain more views. People who should have bigger platforms
haven't been able to get bigger platforms even though they've
been working for a decade or even longer. And I
just think it is fascinating and very admirable to see
how something seemingly started from some such a noble place
(18:01):
like sharing how to do hair and techniques for doing
hair is such a familial and warm and intimate thing.
I have so many, like fun and rich memories of
getting my hair done as a child and struggling to
learn podocormra, which I still don't know how to do. Yeah,
I say no, I don't. I wish I did. I
(18:24):
didn't learn how to break though, and that was you know,
that was a struggle too. But I have so many
good memories of that, And I think that people started
wanting to as a genre, share this experience and this
knowledge with other people. Is like exploding this culture that
already existed. But it still feels personal. So we went
(18:46):
straight to the source. We spoke with LaToya Eboni, who's
been making haircare videos on YouTube since twenty ten.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
My name is LaToya Eboni. I am an online content creator,
a professional actress as well as an organic skincare formulator
soon to be hair care formulator.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Can you take us back to when you first decided
to start a YouTube channel? What were you feeling, What
were some of the ideas that were going through your mind,
What was the support and maybe lack of support that
was happening. Can you just take us through what that
time was like.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, I was in grad school studying acting and teaching.
And I remember one day I was in class and
I just kind of looked around and some of my
female like counterparts would just show up to class with
(19:46):
their hair like still wet, you know, slapped it back
in a ponytail. Meanwhile, I had, like, not only was
I doing prep for, you know, the work at hand,
but I'm like making sure my hair is in a
ball and all the things. Like I'm putting so much
effort into how I show up. And I remember looking
(20:07):
around being like, wait, I am doing the most. Meanwhile,
everyone else seems to be very comfortable just showing up
as they are, including their hair. And when you're in
graduate school for acting and you're studying the craft of acting,
(20:27):
you have to do a lot of self reflection, a
lot of self work in order to take on different
characters and being sort of these fantastical worlds. And I
was doing a lot of writing and self reflecting. And
I remember being at home and I was about to
go get my relaxer touch up. And I'm living in
(20:51):
South Carolina, by the way, and I remember thinking like,
why am I so ashamed of my hair? Why are
we collectively as a people the people that I grew
up with. Why are we so ashamed of showing up
as we are? And of course there's a whole lot
(21:13):
of historical context around that, But I really wanted to
start the journey for myself and kind of find out,
like what's underneath all of these like these weaves and
wigs and chemical treatments. I had no idea really what
my hair looked like outside of the new growth that
(21:35):
was coming in before I decided to like chemically relax it.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I'm curious to know how your acting training, how that
translates into your YouTube channel, because I think that's a
pretty unique angle to come into it with. I know
a lot of influencers might get into acting, but that
was your start. So how did that influence you?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Oh my gosh, So when I started acting, it was
and so it's not it's a different medium than being
on camera, but I knew that I wanted to do
like more film and television, so I was used to
critiquing myself watching myself, you know, So for me, I
think there wasn't necessarily the intimidation factor of being seen,
(22:24):
So that was that was definitely a big plus and
a big help. But I will say that the way
that it influences me is through storytelling. I think of
things and acts. So you know, there's the you know, beginning, middle, end,
or like chapters of a book. Right, So it's like
act one you present the problem or the subject of
(22:48):
the story. Act two you are like going through the
trials and tribulations of whatever that you know the subject is,
whether it's like testing a product, doing a hair tutorial,
telling telling a story. Act three is typically like the
(23:13):
conclusion after the big climax, right, what was the result?
And then the conclusion is is like the final act
would be my thoughts and feelings behind what happened, and
then we end curtained.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Down, say really trying to take folks on a journey
with you?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, yeah, I do. And it wasn't something that was
in the beginning intentional. I think that's just how my
mind works. And then as I got more and more
into content creation and what engages viewers, I think became
a lot more solidified.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Are there any other creators that you look to, maybe
in the past or today when you're creating your haircare
videos YouTube?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Ooh okay, So in the past, I African Export was
one that I looked at there was another called her.
Her name was like unique unique, something uniquely or you
after young Unique, I think, I want to say. And
(24:24):
there was oh my gosh, none of these people create
content anymore, by the way. So and there weren't a
lot of people who had my hair type. There were
people who were close, but not really like four C
except for maybe African Export I'd say colored Beautiful. She
(24:45):
did some hair content back in the day as well. Uh.
And of course I look at other people and other niches,
but today I'm gonna be honest. I don't watch a
ton of people except for my YouTube friends. So there's
Jim Jackson, we have four Sea hair. We're pretty close friends.
(25:08):
There is Nappy Fu her real name is Grace. I
watch her her channel as well. We're also close friends.
Fay in the City. I love her personality. I love
how she injects yeah, she just she has a great personality.
And Charae del Soul I would say she doesn't have
(25:30):
the same kind of hair hair type. I believe her
is this looser, but I really enjoy her her content
as well, and the hairspace.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I'm curious, like putting on your actor hat and your
YouTuber hair. What archetype do you see yourself as? Like
are you the hero, the lover, the everyman? Like, what
do you see yourself when you're on YouTube as well?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I'm always the hero and we're the main character here. Okay,
but you know, it really is a hero's journey, and
I have to think about it in the concept of
like the long term. There's the individual video of like
the hero's journey, right the things that happen. But I've
(26:16):
been doing this for like thirteen years. That's a long time,
and you know, starting in the beginning, it literally was
only exploration and being excited about like the small things,
like the things that seem small to me. Now like
I got my first afro puff, the first time I
did a quail out, my big chop, and all of
(26:37):
those sort of like emotional.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Investments and things like that. Right now, it's a lot
more research and diving deeper and you know, like how
many times can I do a twist out? And I'll
still do them, but you know, now it's about the
science of hair and you know, how do we keep
it healthy? Certain products, how they may or may not
(27:03):
benefit you, my my you know, product reviews, things like that,
so it's changed, but I mean we always got to
have a little drop at least some some you got
You've got to be entertaining, you know. But yeah, I'm
always the main character.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
So I want to hear about your relationship with the
YouTube hair care creator community, all the people who love y'all,
who engage with y'all, who have been rooting for y'all,
and like sticking with y'all throughout all the years. I
know there have been a lot of changes. There are
a lot of trends. There's a lot of accountability holding
for what like the creators we care about and that
(27:44):
teach us share with us, like you know, people relaxing
right now, all kinds of trends. So what is your
experience of those ups and downs with the community or
your community specifically.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I got to give a shout out to anyone who
chooses to do natural hair content. It is challenging because
it can be so emotionally charged on so many levels,
especially for people of color, and navigating those spaces when
(28:20):
you're speaking about sensitive topics and even how you show
up on camera and you represent your hair type, people
will pick things apart. And I think when I first started,
you were a lot more able to just be yourself
and there wasn't so much sensitivity around everything that you say,
(28:44):
and now I have to be very cognizant. So yeah,
it's a really challenging space, but it's also a beautiful space.
This is the space in which I learned about myself,
I learned about my community more, I learned from other creators,
especially in the time where people with type four hair
(29:06):
just weren't really welcome in hair salons unless you were
trying to get locks or braids. People just even today,
really aren't willing to deal with the length of time
it takes to do type four hair. And there are
so many licensed cosmetologists out there and hairstylists should I say,
that are just not experienced and are completely intimidated looking
(29:31):
at our hair. And it's not just white people, it's
black people, you know. The discrimination is real. And so
being able to turn to a platform like YouTube where
there's other creators that are sessing through any challenges with
their hair and teaching how to get it healthy, how
(29:54):
to make it grow, how to style it has just
been such a treat and really invo valuable. So shout
out to all the creators out there more after the break.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I'm thinking about all of the different kinds of tropes
that come up in the visual storytelling of YouTube haircare.
So like, I don't know, the slow turn, the glam intros,
you know, the before and the afters. What are some
of those tropes that you really like and have been
as maybe have been inspired by, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Think for comedic effect, I'll use slow B role. I
think I did that a little bit earlier in my career,
where I'll be like touching my hair and I'll be
like the slow falling of the hair. I would make
fun of it by like putting almost like porn esque music,
like just making fun of it. But uh, in terms
(30:55):
of editing, I use a lot of B role. B
role is so important, and especially when you're on a
visual platform, people want to see what you're talking about.
They don't just want to hear it, So B role
is so important for that. I do a lot of
fast cuts to keep the engagement there. People's attention spans
(31:21):
are just shorter and shorter, so I do a combination
now of long form and short form videos on all
all of my platforms.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I know that there also have been a lot of
changes to the YouTube platform itself. I'm wondering if any
of those changes have been particularly positive or negative, and
how have you responded to those.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
For YouTube? YouTube is the goal. I'm just going to
say this because I feel like of all of the platforms,
the people who are in charge of creator success and
whatever that looks like, I feel like they really take
care of their creators the best. Like my largest sort
of passive income checks come from YouTube as opposed to
(32:09):
any other platforms. Some platforms don't even pay, So there's that.
As far as protections against like bullying, racial slurs, like
being able to I guess blacklist certain words, certain phrases
has been so helpful. The introduction of YouTube Studio so
(32:34):
that I could see comments in real time, because once
you have a lot of videos, you just you're not
going back to your older videos. So when you use
an app like YouTube Studio, you can see the newer
comments a lot easier. So it helps me stay engaged
with my audience. But I would say an area of
(32:55):
opportunity that these platforms have would be protections against original
content and reposting and making sure that creators get their
credit and that they get a piece of the views.
I mean, historically, people of color have had so many
ideas stolen from them, and you know, I want the
(33:18):
original creators to get that credit.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Did you have any mentors, any YouTube haircare creator mentors
when you were first starting?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
No, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I actually didn't find my tribe of people until like
much later on, when I was already established.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I think I'm thinking about that because I feel like
now it seems to be at least from the outset
looking in, like a lot of people you know, shout
out to other people that they know that are helping
them and give them tips. But it's probably because there's
so much more structure around it now and people are like,
you know, they can create courses about how to do
this thing that it's easier for them to access help,
(34:02):
which is probably a good thing that happened. If it
weren't for people who just tried to figure it out
on their own before, then this wouldn't even be possible today.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Absolutely agree. Yeah, there just wasn't no one I when
I turned on my camera in twenty ten, no one
I knew was doing this. People were making fun of me.
I was working for support at the time as a
I was a certified makeup artist there and my friends
(34:29):
or my coworkers, I would call them, you know, when
they found out that I was doing YouTube videos. You know,
they knew and they would say sly remarks or about
you know, these YouTube makeup artists and things like that.
It was it was, you know, and then fast forward
like five years later, they're asking for advice. So I think,
(34:51):
you know, I think that you just got to do
what you what you have to do, whether you have
help or not. You know, I think women, Black women
in particular, were very resourceful. We've gotten through a lot,
and you know, sometimes people don't want to help until
you've put some sweat equity into it, you know, that's
the nice way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I think that also go back to what you were
talking about with not being afraid of being seen and
your actor training helping you with that, because I can
see if you're going to work every day and some
folks are, you know, making fun of you, Like someone
who didn't have that mindset would be like, okay, let
me stop, like this is silly, but you were like, nah,
I'm gonna keep doing it. And like you said, five
(35:35):
six years later they want your help m hm.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
For me, it was an outlet that I wasn't willing
to let go. You know, as an actor in particular,
or even working at a job, you're relying on someone
else to pay you, someone else to say yes, that
you're good enough that you can do the job. And
when I turn on my camera, there are very there's
(36:01):
very low barriers. I turned on my camera. If as
long as you have internet and a little bit of equipment,
you're there. And so there was no way I was
going to let some sly remarks get to me and
you and I had I didn't know what YouTube would become.
I wasn't getting paid to do anything. I wasn't doing
(36:23):
brand deals or anything like that. That stuff just what
didn't exist, especially for black and brown people. When we
started finding out that like the Juicy Stars and the
glitter Whoever's of the world, you know, we're getting paid.
We weren't getting paid then, and when we were getting paid,
it was pennies. So yeah, I did it because it
(36:46):
was an outlet. It was something I had control over,
and you know, yeah, I wasn't gonna stop.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Do you feel like YouTube haircare creators get the recognition
that they deserve today.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yes, and no, I think that the community that has
been helped absolutely uplifts natural hair creators. Absolutely. I think
other creators uplift other creators. I think in terms of
economics and how things work in business, Like for example,
(37:24):
it's very rare that you'll see platforms like TikTok, Meta,
Google actually giving recognition to natural hair creators. Google did recently.
I was a part of natural hair creator like appreciation
like playlist and all this, But I mean, those are
(37:47):
those are small little recognitions. I would like to see
the platforms do a better job because we really do
bring a completely different flavor demographic. We bring the spice
and they need us, and I think it would be
nice to get a little bit more recognition publicly. And
(38:09):
I would also say that hair care brands, I don't
feel like they really, I don't know, we're not really
getting our kudos for helping so many, especially like I mean,
any hair company really, to be honest, but even the
black owned brands, I've had a lot of disappointment in
(38:31):
that area in which I will see, you know, like
the shade moistures of the world and the you know,
all of those not necessarily calling them out. They've never
done anything to me. But you know, those companies that
started being predominantly black owned, and we've talked about their products,
we've recommended them, we've done it for free. And to
(38:53):
have them be successful and reach these heights and turn
around and say we don't have a budget for you,
while they have a budget for celebrities, a budget for billboards,
a budget for everything else except for investing into the
very people that invested in them. That's hurtful, very hurtful.
(39:15):
There's a lot of opportunity there.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, I've noticed that with brands. It's like they're happy
to get their free promo, but when it's time to,
you know, pay what it's worth. Because I'm more inclined
to believe a YouTuber showing me their process versus a commercial,
because like, of course you're going to say your product
works well, but you know this YouTuber they are going
(39:39):
through it and I can see the before and after,
I can see the slow mo and see what it's
hitting on, you know what I'm saying. So it's it's
interesting that that's what the that's what the I guess
ethosis for a lot of these companies and like you said,
hopefully that changes soon.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, because a lot of haircare creators have quit. It's
just not sustainable. You know, the people who are doing
more lifestyle content, who are you know talking about big
brands and you know there they have the money, they
have the budget, they have the checks, and they're willing
to invest into creators. They typically don't really come our
(40:17):
way unless it's a Black History Month, but you know,
were working on that.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Would you recommend a black person getting into hair care
on YouTube? Yes?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
And no. I think that I think that we need
to see more change so that it could be sustainable
for black creators. You know, we have bills to pay
just like everyone else, and we need to be recognized
that we have businesses too. We may be relatable, but
(40:50):
it's still a business. I think that if you if
you're going to go into natural hair care, you have
to be aware of the sensitivities of the topics because
there's a lot of there's a lot of energy behind
what some people say. You have to be aware that
a lot of brands won't be willing to pay you
(41:12):
as much as your white counterparts. You just have to
go into it with your eyes wide open. And eventually
get to a space where, honestly, for me, you create
something of your own and you start creating opportunities for
other people.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Does it make you happy this work? It does? It does?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I think you can't be a creator and hate it.
It shows way too much. We all can see when
people are kind of going through the motions that are
burnt out. I love having the control over this story.
I love telling stories. I love being able to turn
on my camera and connect with people all around the world.
I love the impact that I'm able to create, and
(41:59):
I love the few opportunities for other people that I'll
hopefully be able to employ and help along with this process.
So I absolutely love it. I wouldn't change I wouldn't
change anything so far. It takes grit, determination, persistence to
do anything really in this world. But to put yourself
(42:22):
out creatively, it takes something in you that you can't
let anybody else touch. You do the work that you love,
that edifies you, that fills you, that feeds your soul,
and you focus on the people, and that is what's
going to keep you going.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And now it's time for role credits, the segment where
we give credit to a person place or thing we
encountered during the week, and we have our guests with us.
But first, Eves, who are what would you like to
give credit to today?
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I like to give credit to working outside. So I
just got a new computer and finally I am not
stuck to either, you know. I'm grateful for them, of course,
but like I wasn't able to move around as much,
so I don't have to just be at my desktop
inside working anymore. I can enjoy the sunlight and the
fresh air and also the bugs that come around. Because
(43:13):
I am in Georgia, y'all, and it is hot outside,
but it's nice. I've been working outside a lot, So
that's what I like to give credit to today.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
How about you, LaToya, I'm going.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
To give credit to my husband, Ja Cuserles. We're both entrepreneurs.
We're both navigating the space. He's talking to investors and
all the things, and he's teaching me so much about business.
And that's the thing. The thing that I love about
our relationship is not only do we fulfill each other
(43:46):
in a sort of romantic way, he has made it
a point to pass down his knowledge from meetings and opportunities,
and he wants to see me win just as much
as I want to see him win. And that's the
kind of partner that I needed. And he's a wonderful
father too, So I'm gonna shout him out. Shout out
to all the good husbands out there and strong, beautiful
(44:11):
black man.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Okay, I would like to shout out the Creative Commons
license slash public domain, especially for things that are like
not old, that are in there, Like I'm one hundred
percent here for people getting their payments for their.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Art they're created.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
But if you put your stuff in Creative Commons license
or public domain before it automatically gets in there, shout
out to you, because that has helped me so much
this week. And I'm always so pleasantly surprised. I'm like, what,
this isn't the this isn't the public domain? Oh my god,
I'm so excited. But yeah, I love the knowledge sharing,
the art sharing that is going on with that license.
(44:56):
So that's what I would like to shout out to.
And where can people find you?
Speaker 5 (45:03):
On the interwebs so many places, so if on pretty
much every platform, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you can search LaToya
ebenie or LaToya ebeni haare and I will pop up.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
Have two YouTube channels, LaToya Ebnehair and LaToya Ebenie. And
for my company you can look up Someday Sunday dot com.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Well, thank you so much for joining us. This is
really fun.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Thank you so much for having me. Have a great
day YouTube Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.
It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us
on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us
an email at hello at on Theme dot show. Head
to on Themed Show to check out the show notes
(46:02):
for episodes. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hey, y'all, Eve's here. I know you're ready to get
into this episode, but really quick. We have been loving
connecting with y'all over black storytelling, and if you've really
been loving the show, then we would really appreciate it
if you would leave us a rating and review, subscribe
to the show, and share it with your friends. Thanks y'all,
Now time for the episode. On theme is a production
(00:22):
of iHeartRadio and fair Weather Friends Media. Hey, y'all, welcome
(00:45):
to our channel.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
I'm Katie and I'm Eves, and you're tuned into Friends.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
With FROs, a channel where we show you how to
pretty fi your puff.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
How to let your silk press sing and big.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Chop Bellow, how to help your braids go from busted to.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
And how to let your kitchen cook because naps are
what Eves natural.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
We'll make sure your hair is looking right so you
can keep fighting the good fight.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's right. This channel is all about pro black hair hair.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
So without further ado, let's get into today's tutorial.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Today's episode wash day Woes.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Early in my high school years, I stopped getting perms,
and it wasn't really a principal thing. They just didn't
work for me. They burned no matter what I did.
I hated the process and upkeep, and I wasn't the
biggest fan of how I looked with my straight hair anyway.
And my mother didn't get relaxers, so I saw what
(01:43):
it was like to live without, so I decided to
let my hair grow out without getting touchups.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
I do remember when you went natural, mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It was a rough period, but so freeing that I
didn't have to deal with the creamy crack anymore. So
I committed to growing it all out, got made fun
of here and there, and eventually had a head free
of relaxer chemicals.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
I went natural a couple years later than you when
I was in college, I think my sophomore year or
right after my sophomore year. But you're definitely like one
of the people I look to. I was like, well, East,
what natural? So I can too?
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh yeah. But for me, throughout that whole transition, I
never would have made it. Q Marvin sapp if it
weren't for the natural hair YouTube girlies.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
They have given so many people free game.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, ma'am, and I was one of them. Now, they
weren't super popping on YouTube around the time that I
started my process. At first, I was reading articles on
old hair blogs with tiny pictures, scrolling through the comments
section looking for folks who could co sign or condemn
the tips given by the author, you know, trying to
figure out what the hell and loc method is. The
(02:56):
struggle was real, but baby, when folks started putting hair
tutorials up on YouTube, it was a game changer. And now,
years after the phenomenon first blew up, we have been
blessed with so much information, so much value, and look,
a lot of it is wrong, girl, But to be honest,
all the misinformation is one of my favorite parts about
(03:17):
the whole genre.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Now you're gonna explain that a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Okay, okay, hear me out first, the misinformation begets reality
TV worthy drama. People have called out YouTubers on how
their advice is just flat out wrong. Sometimes the trends
don't be having no basis. In fact, it's just all
vibes and that's entertainment, yes. But second, and less messy
than that point is that we all end up learning together,
(03:42):
Like figuring out how to care for your individual hair
is a whole process and we have to experiment anyway,
So we're making mistakes and updating our knowledge when we
learn from it collectively. And third, the misinformation is indicative
of the whole genre. Starting as an each one tach
one project, it was black folks showing other black folks
how to do their hair, and the educators were on
(04:05):
a wide spectrum of experience and professional status, So of
course some debris came in with a tide. If you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I'm catching your drift. That makes sense. Folks from all
backgrounds definitely felt empowered to share whatever ounce of knowledge
they had and a lot of folks have benefited from that.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
Yeah, And since the birth of the genre, its creators
have gone through a lot having to figure out how
many more ways they can spin a twisted updo for content,
upgrading their filming equipment and setup.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Ooh, figuring out how to show what they're actually doing
in the tutorial.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
Oh my god, child, I'm saying, detailing washday routines, peddling
weed for foreign companies, arguing about the merits of hair types,
hair porosity, washing, weekly oil usage, prepoods, protein treatments, you
name it.
Speaker 2 (04:52):
They have the whole storytelling genre from the ground up.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Exactly what I'm saying point number one. Think about the
way is that hair YouTubers format their videos to be
able to educate us best. The ways that they narrate,
the intros they use I got beef with those but alas,
the obligatory slow mode three sixty and glamour shots at
the end of the video all hallmarks of the genre
that creators built and solidified over time. Our nervous systems
(05:19):
know what to expect when tuning in to a hair
video at this point.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
It's given formulaic, it's giving Shakespearean play, it's giving aque
Act two, Act three, it's giving climax, it's giving falling action.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
All of the things. They created a set of standards
and practices that they use for their brand of visual storytelling.
We're used to our parents and aunties and family friends
showing us how to do hair, but filming it staying
engaging but not belaboring points, learning what to cut and
what to keep, working with technology and figuring out how
to get people to see it all. In the end,
(05:53):
they have put in work to create quality content that
actually feeds the people and looks good, and.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
They've honed the craft in such a short period of
time formula is tight as car rolls after a fresh.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
Install, crispy as greased parts.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
So what's your next point?
Speaker 1 (06:08):
This one's related to the artistry of it all too.
It's that hair YouTubers are all the archetypes that we
see in our favorite stories. They're unreliable narrators. Like I
said earlier, they don't always know what they're talking about,
and something they say that works for them will absolutely
not work for everybody.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
They're also unsung heroes. They've saved me once or dice.
Let's be real a million times when I couldn't think
of a style to put on my head.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
Yep, And they're villains. Let a non perm YouTuber get
a relaxer and watch the people turn on her with
a quickness.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
In the comments, cussing name Colin.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
They inhabit the roles of celebrities as they gain audience
and visibility, struggling artists when they're learning hair techniques, mentors
as they teach us new hairstyles and hair care methods
and introduce us to new products. And when someone's doing
their thing on YouTube for a while, it can be
a whole coming of age story. You get to see
how they and their hair grow and evolve, we see
(07:03):
their channel grow, we see them get married or have kids,
and we see them decide to stop sharing on YouTube,
or we see them come out with their own product lines,
like Layla Washington of the YouTube channel Fusion of Cultures,
who started a skincare company called Wilsea Botanicals.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
All that main character and energy.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yep, and that leads me to my next point. The
genre and as creators carry some weight. They have a
big presence on YouTube. They created a community that's been
thriving for more than a decade now. Their followers are
super engaged, partly due to the fact that YouTubers are
charismatic and beautiful and personable and doing things that are
aspirational for lots of people, but also because of the
(07:42):
nature of the beast. We're interacting with the content in
the most authentic way, taking the creator's advice and tips
and using them on our own or on others' bodies,
and we might be watching their videos over and over again,
rewinding and replaying.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
They've had a definite impact on creator culture on YouTube.
A lot of hair YouTubers like Whitney White, also known
as Natural eighty five, are ogs in the YouTube content
creation lane.
Speaker 1 (08:07):
They became more than just people who knew how to
do hair. They were bloggers, influencers, entrepreneurs. They started getting
paid the big bugs, by sponsors and YouTube itself. Once
they started doing numbers, their recommendations bought or not drove
many of their adherents to purchase items that they wouldn't
even think about needing had their favorite YouTuber not used
(08:31):
it in their latest upload.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Girl and some of those products collected dust. Popularity came
and went, some just fell out of favor, and some
just weren't great to begin with.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
True, but we can't deny how these YouTubers filled a
gap that was growing as more Black people embraced their
natural hair journeys and sought a vice from bloggers. Not
that we weren't embracing it before.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
See Black as Beautiful and the glorious froze of the
sixties and seventies.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
For sure, It's just that the phrase slash concept of
a natural hair journey was gaining steam as a measurable
phenomenon in the early oughts. And speaking of airs and hair,
this takes me into the next point, which is this
one's pretty simple. Hair YouTubers are documentarians. They document changes
in style over time. I can look back at videos
(09:20):
from past years and see when Senegalese twists, Voho braids
are band two knots were really popping. Through their videos,
we get a timeline of black hair trends.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
And sometimes the YouTubers are the ones setting those trends.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
And amplifying them by sharing them and spreading them to
wider audiences. So my next point is the last. But
who would we be if we didn't make you wait
to get it till after the break.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
We're ready for you.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
Last point, all right, this is my favorite one. That's
why I saved it for last, is that as a whole,
black YouTubers have used the art the storytelling to help
us consider our relationship to our hair and how it evolves.
They've made us think about how we best love on
our hair, consider the reasons we want to reject perms
and embrace the kinks or not. They've made us question
(10:15):
our hair care practices and pay more attention to what
we're doing to our hair and why. They've encouraged us
to consider what brands we support, where we direct our money.
They've given us direction when we needed it most and
they've spurred innovation in the hair care industry. They have
helped us think more critically and act more intentionally around
black hair.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
And that's what the best storytellers do. Make you think
more critically right and actually spur action in the real world.
I know, seeing the girls with the big afros, you know,
hair goals, hair goals, and now I can look and
see myself with a big aufro. I'm like, dang, I'm
really my own hair goals.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
Did you see yourself like this in the future when
you first started watching them?
Speaker 3 (10:59):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Yeah, yeah, I wanted my hair to be long as
it is, Like I wanted to be long month too,
Like what's going on here? I think at first when
you start looking at these YouTubers, you're really impatient. But
now like on once your hair is like at the
length where you're like, okay, I can like do these
styles that I want to do. You're kind of like
more relaxed about it, you know, but also like happy
(11:22):
to see other people really experimenting with their hair. I
don't experiment with my hair that much anymore, but being
able to see how people like tell stories with their hair,
Like there's that one girl who like does sculptures with
her locks. You know that. Yeah, I've seen her, Like
there's so many cool ways to do it. But then
also just like living your life with your natural hair.
It's like that's also like a story that we're telling
(11:44):
is like a collective, right, because I think when like
our parents was raising us and putting it on in
perms in our hair, like that was like a different
mindset that people were having. Absolutely, and so now like
you don't really see little kids with perms like that.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
And I was singing the just for Me themes on
the other day. Yeah, like that's how ingrained it was.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
They were it. You're like, dang, I want to look
like her.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
When that yes, it poked out to the side, it hurt.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yeah, And like so to see that shift collectively is
really interesting. And I liked what you said about these
YouTubers being documentarians because I remember when the Lemonade raids
was it, you know, like be yes, they had the
girls shook when that hair, you know what I'm saying.
So like being able to see those different iterations because
you know, like YouTube's been around for a minute now,
so it's it's really like a great archive of like
(12:33):
what everyone was doing with their hair.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Yeah, and I'm not the fondest of this phrase, but
I'm going to use it now anyway because I think
it's fitting. They are kind of thought leaders in a
way when it comes to hair. Because when you just
said something about you wanted your hair to be really long,
that made me think about how much we prioritize length.
And I think a lot of that did have to
do with the way that YouTubers were sharing. Like I know,
a lot of that is also society things that are
(12:56):
deeply ingrained in US, but I think there were so
many like videos about length checks on YouTube. It's like okay,
Liane check and the best way to do your line.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Check white t shirt. Yeah, wear the same shirt every time.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
And different tips for being able to get your hair longer,
like when that chebe thing got really big, like putting
mud on your hair was something to You're looking at
me like you have no idea what it is. Girl,
that's how deep it goes.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Please skip me.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
And I don't even know if I'm pronouncing it right,
but it's just there have been so many things to
help you with hair length, and so many YouTubers talking
about how your hair is growing, it's about length retention,
and this is how you keep it. Make sure you trimp.
After that, it felt like there was a swing back
toward your hair is great at any length, and I'm
looking for people with TWA's who can do this. Are
(13:45):
I feel like when I go to YouTube that I
can't find people. I always see people who are doing
styles that don't relate to me because I have four
sea hair or something like that. So it's interesting to
see how the thoughts that leaders on YouTube when it
comes to hair start to resonate and ripple throughout black folks.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yeah, speaking of like the I can't find someone with
four sea hair conversation, one, I think with hair YouTube,
there are a lot of like cliches and like tropes,
Like you said, like your hair is growing, it's about retention,
like people saying like the same thing over and over again.
But then also I think, just like I think one
of the major tennants maybe this was like a twenty
tens YouTuber thing, and it's indicative of like larger issues
(14:32):
in like black storytelling is like the racially ambiguous or
like biracial person who just like has long, curly hair,
not because of the routine they're doing just because like girl,
you're mixed with white and your hair is gonna curl
that certain way or elevated. But you see it perpetuating
these like different ways of storytelling that you wouldn't think
(14:54):
would seep into like someone's bathroom or bedroom, but the
way that the audience reacts to them is very similar.
I think.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I think that reflects the way that it's changed over time,
because there was an era, and you'll see in some
of these people's videos that we mentioned in today's episode,
like for a Natural eighty five who has a My
Natural Haircare Journey video from like two thousand or nine
years ago, so from a while ago where it was
just her showing pictures of herself. There is no narration happening,
(15:23):
there is her showing a tutorial, There is no edit
of an intro in the beginning, music only played in
specific spots. All of the things that come with videos
that people make on hair YouTube today and over time
that morphed into Okay, I understand, I'm a personality and
people need to come to my page. Okay, I get
subscribers and this is how I do it. Okay, YouTube's
(15:44):
algorithm is changing. I feel like I can say with
confidence that back then it wasn't as much about getting
more people to see. They cared about sharing, of course
that's why they posted it, but it wasn't so prioritized
to gain more followers or gain more engagement. And also
all of the hate that came with it afterwards. You know,
(16:05):
they had to combat about against that over time too.
So it's more I guess, freedom to be able to
put up what you want, how you want, versus there's
more thinking now around. Okay, I can't say this, I
can't be this real. I can only be a little
bit real. I have to be this authentic with the
capital a that everybody use about people on social media
(16:26):
these days, so people understand it as more of a
storytelling platform now that is meant to be constructed, and
that's why all of these expectations like you mentioned have entered.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Yeah, the Internet has just changed since they first started, Right,
Like people weren't personalities, people weren't getting so much money
for like posting themselves doing their hair. But like once
you know, all these sponsorships get involved, once you realize
people can look at the view out your window and
see what city you live in and you've said your
(17:01):
last name a few too many times that they can
pull up on you, like it really changes the dynamic
of how you can share, even if it is about
something like hair. It's also, I think, like a small
microcus of just like how the Internet has changed and
how we've changed along with the Internet.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
And there are videos now that people are posting about
how hair YouTubers are struggling. So I just feel like
now is a good time to think about this because
I know they're still going you know, of course, they're
still making videos about hair on YouTube, like their channels
are still popping. I'm not saying that they're not, but
it definitely is a different landscape now. But there are
(17:38):
people who are posting videos saying content creators in the
hairspace on YouTube are struggling, like it's harder for them
to gain more views. People who should have bigger platforms
haven't been able to get bigger platforms even though they've
been working for a decade or even longer. And I
just think it is fascinating and very admirable to see
how something seemingly started from some such a noble place
(18:01):
like sharing how to do hair and techniques for doing
hair is such a familial and warm and intimate thing.
I have so many, like fun and rich memories of
getting my hair done as a child and struggling to
learn podocormra, which I still don't know how to do. Yeah,
I say no, I don't. I wish I did. I
(18:24):
didn't learn how to break though, and that was you know,
that was a struggle too. But I have so many
good memories of that, And I think that people started
wanting to as a genre, share this experience and this
knowledge with other people. Is like exploding this culture that
already existed. But it still feels personal. So we went
(18:46):
straight to the source. We spoke with LaToya Eboni, who's
been making haircare videos on YouTube since twenty ten.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
My name is LaToya Eboni. I am an online content creator,
a professional actress as well as an organic skincare formulator
soon to be hair care formulator.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Can you take us back to when you first decided
to start a YouTube channel? What were you feeling, What
were some of the ideas that were going through your mind,
What was the support and maybe lack of support that
was happening. Can you just take us through what that
time was like.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, I was in grad school studying acting and teaching.
And I remember one day I was in class and
I just kind of looked around and some of my
female like counterparts would just show up to class with
(19:46):
their hair like still wet, you know, slapped it back
in a ponytail. Meanwhile, I had, like, not only was
I doing prep for, you know, the work at hand,
but I'm like making sure my hair is in a
ball and all the things. Like I'm putting so much
effort into how I show up. And I remember looking
(20:07):
around being like, wait, I am doing the most. Meanwhile,
everyone else seems to be very comfortable just showing up
as they are, including their hair. And when you're in
graduate school for acting and you're studying the craft of acting,
(20:27):
you have to do a lot of self reflection, a
lot of self work in order to take on different
characters and being sort of these fantastical worlds. And I
was doing a lot of writing and self reflecting. And
I remember being at home and I was about to
go get my relaxer touch up. And I'm living in
(20:51):
South Carolina, by the way, and I remember thinking like,
why am I so ashamed of my hair? Why are
we collectively as a people the people that I grew
up with. Why are we so ashamed of showing up
as we are? And of course there's a whole lot
(21:13):
of historical context around that, But I really wanted to
start the journey for myself and kind of find out,
like what's underneath all of these like these weaves and
wigs and chemical treatments. I had no idea really what
my hair looked like outside of the new growth that
(21:35):
was coming in before I decided to like chemically relax it.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
I'm curious to know how your acting training, how that
translates into your YouTube channel, because I think that's a
pretty unique angle to come into it with. I know
a lot of influencers might get into acting, but that
was your start. So how did that influence you?
Speaker 3 (21:56):
Oh my gosh, So when I started acting, it was
and so it's not it's a different medium than being
on camera, but I knew that I wanted to do
like more film and television, so I was used to
critiquing myself watching myself, you know, So for me, I
think there wasn't necessarily the intimidation factor of being seen,
(22:24):
So that was that was definitely a big plus and
a big help. But I will say that the way
that it influences me is through storytelling. I think of
things and acts. So you know, there's the you know, beginning, middle, end,
or like chapters of a book. Right, So it's like
act one you present the problem or the subject of
(22:48):
the story. Act two you are like going through the
trials and tribulations of whatever that you know the subject is,
whether it's like testing a product, doing a hair tutorial,
telling telling a story. Act three is typically like the
(23:13):
conclusion after the big climax, right, what was the result?
And then the conclusion is is like the final act
would be my thoughts and feelings behind what happened, and
then we end curtained.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Down, say really trying to take folks on a journey
with you?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Yeah, yeah, I do. And it wasn't something that was
in the beginning intentional. I think that's just how my
mind works. And then as I got more and more
into content creation and what engages viewers, I think became
a lot more solidified.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Are there any other creators that you look to, maybe
in the past or today when you're creating your haircare
videos YouTube?
Speaker 3 (24:01):
Ooh okay, So in the past, I African Export was
one that I looked at there was another called her.
Her name was like unique unique, something uniquely or you
after young Unique, I think, I want to say. And
(24:24):
there was oh my gosh, none of these people create
content anymore, by the way. So and there weren't a
lot of people who had my hair type. There were
people who were close, but not really like four C
except for maybe African Export I'd say colored Beautiful. She
(24:45):
did some hair content back in the day as well. Uh.
And of course I look at other people and other niches,
but today I'm gonna be honest. I don't watch a
ton of people except for my YouTube friends. So there's
Jim Jackson, we have four Sea hair. We're pretty close friends.
(25:08):
There is Nappy Fu her real name is Grace. I
watch her her channel as well. We're also close friends.
Fay in the City. I love her personality. I love
how she injects yeah, she just she has a great personality.
And Charae del Soul I would say she doesn't have
(25:30):
the same kind of hair hair type. I believe her
is this looser, but I really enjoy her her content
as well, and the hairspace.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
I'm curious, like putting on your actor hat and your
YouTuber hair. What archetype do you see yourself as? Like
are you the hero, the lover, the everyman? Like, what
do you see yourself when you're on YouTube as well?
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I'm always the hero and we're the main character here. Okay,
but you know, it really is a hero's journey, and
I have to think about it in the concept of
like the long term. There's the individual video of like
the hero's journey, right the things that happen. But I've
(26:16):
been doing this for like thirteen years. That's a long time,
and you know, starting in the beginning, it literally was
only exploration and being excited about like the small things,
like the things that seem small to me. Now like
I got my first afro puff, the first time I
did a quail out, my big chop, and all of
(26:37):
those sort of like emotional.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Investments and things like that. Right now, it's a lot
more research and diving deeper and you know, like how
many times can I do a twist out? And I'll
still do them, but you know, now it's about the
science of hair and you know, how do we keep
it healthy? Certain products, how they may or may not
(27:03):
benefit you, my my you know, product reviews, things like that,
so it's changed, but I mean we always got to
have a little drop at least some some you got
You've got to be entertaining, you know. But yeah, I'm
always the main character.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
So I want to hear about your relationship with the
YouTube hair care creator community, all the people who love y'all,
who engage with y'all, who have been rooting for y'all,
and like sticking with y'all throughout all the years. I
know there have been a lot of changes. There are
a lot of trends. There's a lot of accountability holding
for what like the creators we care about and that
(27:44):
teach us share with us, like you know, people relaxing
right now, all kinds of trends. So what is your
experience of those ups and downs with the community or
your community specifically.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I got to give a shout out to anyone who
chooses to do natural hair content. It is challenging because
it can be so emotionally charged on so many levels,
especially for people of color, and navigating those spaces when
(28:20):
you're speaking about sensitive topics and even how you show
up on camera and you represent your hair type, people
will pick things apart. And I think when I first started,
you were a lot more able to just be yourself
and there wasn't so much sensitivity around everything that you say,
(28:44):
and now I have to be very cognizant. So yeah,
it's a really challenging space, but it's also a beautiful space.
This is the space in which I learned about myself,
I learned about my community more, I learned from other creators,
especially in the time where people with type four hair
(29:06):
just weren't really welcome in hair salons unless you were
trying to get locks or braids. People just even today,
really aren't willing to deal with the length of time
it takes to do type four hair. And there are
so many licensed cosmetologists out there and hairstylists should I say,
that are just not experienced and are completely intimidated looking
(29:31):
at our hair. And it's not just white people, it's
black people, you know. The discrimination is real. And so
being able to turn to a platform like YouTube where
there's other creators that are sessing through any challenges with
their hair and teaching how to get it healthy, how
(29:54):
to make it grow, how to style it has just
been such a treat and really invo valuable. So shout
out to all the creators out there more after the break.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
I'm thinking about all of the different kinds of tropes
that come up in the visual storytelling of YouTube haircare.
So like, I don't know, the slow turn, the glam intros,
you know, the before and the afters. What are some
of those tropes that you really like and have been
as maybe have been inspired by, you know, I.
Speaker 3 (30:35):
Think for comedic effect, I'll use slow B role. I
think I did that a little bit earlier in my career,
where I'll be like touching my hair and I'll be
like the slow falling of the hair. I would make
fun of it by like putting almost like porn esque music,
like just making fun of it. But uh, in terms
(30:55):
of editing, I use a lot of B role. B
role is so important, and especially when you're on a
visual platform, people want to see what you're talking about.
They don't just want to hear it, So B role
is so important for that. I do a lot of
fast cuts to keep the engagement there. People's attention spans
(31:21):
are just shorter and shorter, so I do a combination
now of long form and short form videos on all
all of my platforms.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
I know that there also have been a lot of
changes to the YouTube platform itself. I'm wondering if any
of those changes have been particularly positive or negative, and
how have you responded to those.
Speaker 3 (31:45):
For YouTube? YouTube is the goal. I'm just going to
say this because I feel like of all of the platforms,
the people who are in charge of creator success and
whatever that looks like, I feel like they really take
care of their creators the best. Like my largest sort
of passive income checks come from YouTube as opposed to
(32:09):
any other platforms. Some platforms don't even pay, So there's that.
As far as protections against like bullying, racial slurs, like
being able to I guess blacklist certain words, certain phrases
has been so helpful. The introduction of YouTube Studio so
(32:34):
that I could see comments in real time, because once
you have a lot of videos, you just you're not
going back to your older videos. So when you use
an app like YouTube Studio, you can see the newer
comments a lot easier. So it helps me stay engaged
with my audience. But I would say an area of
(32:55):
opportunity that these platforms have would be protections against original
content and reposting and making sure that creators get their
credit and that they get a piece of the views.
I mean, historically, people of color have had so many
ideas stolen from them, and you know, I want the
(33:18):
original creators to get that credit.
Speaker 1 (33:21):
Did you have any mentors, any YouTube haircare creator mentors
when you were first starting?
Speaker 3 (33:27):
No, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
I didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
I actually didn't find my tribe of people until like
much later on, when I was already established.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
I think I'm thinking about that because I feel like
now it seems to be at least from the outset
looking in, like a lot of people you know, shout
out to other people that they know that are helping
them and give them tips. But it's probably because there's
so much more structure around it now and people are like,
you know, they can create courses about how to do
this thing that it's easier for them to access help,
(34:02):
which is probably a good thing that happened. If it
weren't for people who just tried to figure it out
on their own before, then this wouldn't even be possible today.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Absolutely agree. Yeah, there just wasn't no one I when
I turned on my camera in twenty ten, no one
I knew was doing this. People were making fun of me.
I was working for support at the time as a
I was a certified makeup artist there and my friends
(34:29):
or my coworkers, I would call them, you know, when
they found out that I was doing YouTube videos. You know,
they knew and they would say sly remarks or about
you know, these YouTube makeup artists and things like that.
It was it was, you know, and then fast forward
like five years later, they're asking for advice. So I think,
(34:51):
you know, I think that you just got to do
what you what you have to do, whether you have
help or not. You know, I think women, Black women
in particular, were very resourceful. We've gotten through a lot,
and you know, sometimes people don't want to help until
you've put some sweat equity into it, you know, that's
the nice way of putting it.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
I think that also go back to what you were
talking about with not being afraid of being seen and
your actor training helping you with that, because I can
see if you're going to work every day and some
folks are, you know, making fun of you, Like someone
who didn't have that mindset would be like, okay, let
me stop, like this is silly, but you were like, nah,
I'm gonna keep doing it. And like you said, five
(35:35):
six years later they want your help m hm.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
For me, it was an outlet that I wasn't willing
to let go. You know, as an actor in particular,
or even working at a job, you're relying on someone
else to pay you, someone else to say yes, that
you're good enough that you can do the job. And
when I turn on my camera, there are very there's
(36:01):
very low barriers. I turned on my camera. If as
long as you have internet and a little bit of equipment,
you're there. And so there was no way I was
going to let some sly remarks get to me and
you and I had I didn't know what YouTube would become.
I wasn't getting paid to do anything. I wasn't doing
(36:23):
brand deals or anything like that. That stuff just what
didn't exist, especially for black and brown people. When we
started finding out that like the Juicy Stars and the
glitter Whoever's of the world, you know, we're getting paid.
We weren't getting paid then, and when we were getting paid,
it was pennies. So yeah, I did it because it
(36:46):
was an outlet. It was something I had control over,
and you know, yeah, I wasn't gonna stop.
Speaker 1 (36:53):
Do you feel like YouTube haircare creators get the recognition
that they deserve today.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
Yes, and no, I think that the community that has
been helped absolutely uplifts natural hair creators. Absolutely. I think
other creators uplift other creators. I think in terms of
economics and how things work in business, Like for example,
(37:24):
it's very rare that you'll see platforms like TikTok, Meta,
Google actually giving recognition to natural hair creators. Google did recently.
I was a part of natural hair creator like appreciation
like playlist and all this, But I mean, those are
(37:47):
those are small little recognitions. I would like to see
the platforms do a better job because we really do
bring a completely different flavor demographic. We bring the spice
and they need us, and I think it would be
nice to get a little bit more recognition publicly. And
(38:09):
I would also say that hair care brands, I don't
feel like they really, I don't know, we're not really
getting our kudos for helping so many, especially like I mean,
any hair company really, to be honest, but even the
black owned brands, I've had a lot of disappointment in
(38:31):
that area in which I will see, you know, like
the shade moistures of the world and the you know,
all of those not necessarily calling them out. They've never
done anything to me. But you know, those companies that
started being predominantly black owned, and we've talked about their products,
we've recommended them, we've done it for free. And to
(38:53):
have them be successful and reach these heights and turn
around and say we don't have a budget for you,
while they have a budget for celebrities, a budget for billboards,
a budget for everything else except for investing into the
very people that invested in them. That's hurtful, very hurtful.
(39:15):
There's a lot of opportunity there.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Yeah, I've noticed that with brands. It's like they're happy
to get their free promo, but when it's time to,
you know, pay what it's worth. Because I'm more inclined
to believe a YouTuber showing me their process versus a commercial,
because like, of course you're going to say your product
works well, but you know this YouTuber they are going
(39:39):
through it and I can see the before and after,
I can see the slow mo and see what it's
hitting on, you know what I'm saying. So it's it's
interesting that that's what the that's what the I guess
ethosis for a lot of these companies and like you said,
hopefully that changes soon.
Speaker 3 (39:54):
Yeah, because a lot of haircare creators have quit. It's
just not sustainable. You know, the people who are doing
more lifestyle content, who are you know talking about big
brands and you know there they have the money, they
have the budget, they have the checks, and they're willing
to invest into creators. They typically don't really come our
(40:17):
way unless it's a Black History Month, but you know,
were working on that.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Would you recommend a black person getting into hair care
on YouTube? Yes?
Speaker 3 (40:29):
And no. I think that I think that we need
to see more change so that it could be sustainable
for black creators. You know, we have bills to pay
just like everyone else, and we need to be recognized
that we have businesses too. We may be relatable, but
(40:50):
it's still a business. I think that if you if
you're going to go into natural hair care, you have
to be aware of the sensitivities of the topics because
there's a lot of there's a lot of energy behind
what some people say. You have to be aware that
a lot of brands won't be willing to pay you
(41:12):
as much as your white counterparts. You just have to
go into it with your eyes wide open. And eventually
get to a space where, honestly, for me, you create
something of your own and you start creating opportunities for
other people.
Speaker 1 (41:28):
Does it make you happy this work? It does? It does?
Speaker 3 (41:34):
I think you can't be a creator and hate it.
It shows way too much. We all can see when
people are kind of going through the motions that are
burnt out. I love having the control over this story.
I love telling stories. I love being able to turn
on my camera and connect with people all around the world.
I love the impact that I'm able to create, and
(41:59):
I love the few opportunities for other people that I'll
hopefully be able to employ and help along with this process.
So I absolutely love it. I wouldn't change I wouldn't
change anything so far. It takes grit, determination, persistence to
do anything really in this world. But to put yourself
(42:22):
out creatively, it takes something in you that you can't
let anybody else touch. You do the work that you love,
that edifies you, that fills you, that feeds your soul,
and you focus on the people, and that is what's
going to keep you going.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
And now it's time for role credits, the segment where
we give credit to a person place or thing we
encountered during the week, and we have our guests with us.
But first, Eves, who are what would you like to
give credit to today?
Speaker 1 (42:52):
I like to give credit to working outside. So I
just got a new computer and finally I am not
stuck to either, you know. I'm grateful for them, of course,
but like I wasn't able to move around as much,
so I don't have to just be at my desktop
inside working anymore. I can enjoy the sunlight and the
fresh air and also the bugs that come around. Because
(43:13):
I am in Georgia, y'all, and it is hot outside,
but it's nice. I've been working outside a lot, So
that's what I like to give credit to today.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
How about you, LaToya, I'm going.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
To give credit to my husband, Ja Cuserles. We're both entrepreneurs.
We're both navigating the space. He's talking to investors and
all the things, and he's teaching me so much about business.
And that's the thing. The thing that I love about
our relationship is not only do we fulfill each other
(43:46):
in a sort of romantic way, he has made it
a point to pass down his knowledge from meetings and opportunities,
and he wants to see me win just as much
as I want to see him win. And that's the
kind of partner that I needed. And he's a wonderful
father too, So I'm gonna shout him out. Shout out
to all the good husbands out there and strong, beautiful
(44:11):
black man.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
Okay, I would like to shout out the Creative Commons
license slash public domain, especially for things that are like
not old, that are in there, Like I'm one hundred
percent here for people getting their payments for their.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
Art they're created.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
But if you put your stuff in Creative Commons license
or public domain before it automatically gets in there, shout
out to you, because that has helped me so much
this week. And I'm always so pleasantly surprised. I'm like, what,
this isn't the this isn't the public domain? Oh my god,
I'm so excited. But yeah, I love the knowledge sharing,
the art sharing that is going on with that license.
(44:56):
So that's what I would like to shout out to.
And where can people find you?
Speaker 5 (45:03):
On the interwebs so many places, so if on pretty
much every platform, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, you can search LaToya
ebenie or LaToya ebeni haare and I will pop up.
Speaker 3 (45:17):
Have two YouTube channels, LaToya Ebnehair and LaToya Ebenie. And
for my company you can look up Someday Sunday dot com.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Well, thank you so much for joining us. This is
really fun.
Speaker 3 (45:31):
Thank you so much for having me. Have a great
day YouTube Bye Bye.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
This episode was written by Eves Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.
It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. Follow us
on Instagram at on Themeshow. You can also send us
an email at hello at on Theme dot show. Head
to on Themed Show to check out the show notes
(46:02):
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