April 7, 2021 • 44 mins
Brian sits down with long time friend, Steve Lukather, founding member of Toto and 5 time Grammy Award winner as they rehash their early days playing together and the paths their lives have taken since. They cover it all — how the name “Toto” came to be, Steve’s session work on some huge hits many may not know he was involved in as well as his touching moments with Paul and Linda McCartney and George Harrison. Steve opens up about his sobriety and how it saved his career, he shares his take on the Weezer “Africa” cover, his genuine friendship with Ringo Starr and the full story behind that time he accidentally snubbed the King of Pop.
To check out Steve’s new music go to: https://www.stevelukather.com
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
On tour as a production of I Heart Radio and
Black Barrel Media. I'm your host, Brian ray On. This
show will take you behind the scenes of the music
business to give you the most raw, real tales you've
likely never heard before. We'll share our wildest, most unbelievable,
and yes, most embarrassing moments while on tour. In this episode,
I caught up with my good friends Steve Lucathur. Steve
(00:34):
does it all singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer, composer. He has
one of the longest running gigs in the industry and
he's won more awards than we have time to list,
including five Grammys. As a founding member of the band
Toto and now lead singer, he's never missed a show
in forty years. In addition to the mega hits Toto
has given us, Steve has also been a part of
(00:56):
more hit songs than you probably realize, among them Michael
Jackson's Thriller and Beat It. He's contributed to albums by
Van Halen and Joe Cocker. He's toured with Jeff Beck.
Peter Frampton is currently a big part of Ringo Stars
All Star band. We could spend hours sharing his stories,
So we did our best to hit the highlights with Toto,
(01:18):
his touching stories with Paul and Lyndon McCartney and his
friendship with Ringo Star, while not forgetting that time he's
snubbed the king of pop. Here's my conversation with Steve Lucather. Hey, Steve,
(01:41):
good to see your brother Brian. It's only been one
forty four years or whatever, forty three years as we
have been he had, we've been known each other a while, yeah,
I guess. So we met in about right, ma'am. Of
the girls, but my first uh wife Marie and her
twin sister Sari did a record and you were playing,
(02:03):
and I just was dragged along because like I'm the
boyfriend of one of them. I said, y're all come
a long, but had you and Joey Brassler was a
great guitar players. I just fumbled along and double evers parts.
I mean, come on, this wasn't Mahavish new music, you know, yeah, exactly, well,
it wasn't exactly Mahavish new music. It wasn't prag rock.
But all I remember from that because I was pretty
(02:26):
loaded during that time. But what I do remember is
seeing your smiling face and Joey Brassler and having a blast. Yeah. Well,
Joey and I went to high school together. Didn't realize that,
you know, that whole thing Grand High School with Mike
lan Down, myself, the Picarl Brothers, John Pierce Beard wasn't
(02:46):
was older, you know. I didn't meet Mike until like
I started doing sessions, like you know, the first time
I'm working this in seventy eight. I started actually doing
sessions in seventy seven for real, like you know, which
is hard to believe, and the time amazing. Yeah. So
I remember getting a call. I was looking for something
to do. I had just come back from a tour
with at a James opening for the Stone, so I
(03:08):
was like, no for something completely different, yeah, and looking
for something to do because you like that gig with
ed A Jane Oh, with Si, with Sharie and Marie
Curry with you. Uh well, I was just you know,
boyfriend at the time. I wasn't really in the band,
you know. Yeah, that's not how I heard it. Steve
Luke at Theirs on guitar and this was Joey Brassler
(03:31):
calling me year old school saying know them? Is that right? Yeah?
I just showed up so I'd be with my girlfriend
do something, and you guys were just newly dated. Yeah,
I mean she was I was twenty or she was nineteen.
I was twenty one, one of the two, you know,
damn look at that I was. I guess I was
twenty three. Were about the same age. But anyway, I
was just looking for something to do, and Joey called
(03:52):
me and said, you know, we're gonna do a string
of dates around California and some western states. Scott Carlson
was the manager. Well, man, I couldn't have been happy
to be there. We we had a blast. So we
had a great time because I love the way you play,
and I just thought, well, what am I doing here?
But you don't need me, so I just let every
let you guys pretty much, Allen, I just jumped the
rhythm ship. Do you have any memories from our touring days?
(04:15):
You know, I was never as bad as the papers say,
Oh man, we've been too lucky. Blokes man a pretty
good run man. Between doing all the sessions and then
I get to play with them. You know, I love
Ringo and and uh we're hanging with him. He's become
a dear friend of mine and I it doesn't it
just the hang is great and it's my vacation gig.
We're going to have fun, and that's what it is.
(04:36):
I can dig that, man. So I remember reading that
you started playing because of your love for the Beatles
and George Harrison. Is that right? Well, the whole thing,
you know, I watched in the nineteen sixty four like
everybody else, you know what I mean, like, and it
was like life went from black and white to color
like the Wizard of Oz ironically, um, and I just
became obsessed. And the sound of the guitar. I remember
(04:58):
hearing the solo and I saw are standing there mesmerized.
But I played it over and over and over again toil.
My father said if he played then again, I'm going
to kill you. So I used to get real soft
and put it and then I started just fumbling around
on it. And then one day it just made sense
to me, and I started playing all the first position
guitar chords. No one ever taught them to me, Is
(05:19):
that right? So? Were you always helped taught to you?
Ever go to? You know? I started saying when I
was about fourteen, when I realized that you know I had.
I had a pretty good year. I can figure stuff out.
But then when I met the Picaro brothers, when me
and Landau and John Druce went to Grant High School,
we met Steve Pacara and his whole family, and all
of a sudden, everything was like, WHOA, what's this session musicians?
(05:41):
And what do we gotta learn? Funk? I gotta learn
how to read music, which is really difficult to do.
Have you've been playing for seven years and you start
to have to start reading Maryanne a little lamb or
something like that. And then my teacher, Jimmy Wible, very patient,
God bless his soul, but I had to learn a
lot fast. And then we were the first class of
the Dick Grove School back in North I would yeah,
(06:01):
John Pierros of Pcaros, I mean it was the first
class of almost everybody in the in the class has
made a good career of being a musician. Yeah, so
that was pretty clos really something. Yeah, But you know, man,
it was just like once I got into the studying thing,
I started studying a orchestration composition with Dr Albert Harris,
like Jimmy Wible with Dick Grove. I took every music
(06:21):
class in high school, which, by the way, we really
need music in schools man, Yeah, damn right, we do.
I mean I was never in the orchestra of the
band or anything like that, but being around the music, studying,
harmony theory, first level piano, you know, all the sight
singing stuff. Do you think you'd never use I actually
(06:42):
really did use it on you know, when I started
doing sessions and yeah, you know, I really had to
get it together. It was. It was just very fortunately,
grateful and lucky that I got the shot that I did. Yeah,
it is unfortunate. It's been cut from a lot of
school budgets. But you know, one day, yeah, maybe one
day we'll get to return to that because it's not
just the music and exercising that part of your brain.
(07:05):
It's the camaraderie. And again, it's like a sport without
the grass stains. I mean, reading music is just like
learning a foreign language. It's not necessary, but it sure
as hell helps if you're in the country that they
speak that foreign language exactly. That's really well sad. So
thinking about your career in the earliest days and you're
talking about Pricaro and and Landau, Joey and Babe Pierce
(07:29):
right that used to be his nickname, right, Yeah, yeah,
well that's a long story, no, John, and John was
my very first friend in the entire world. Our parents
were pregnant. It's the same block were so before you
guys came to be. Yeah, we high five each other
on the way, and he was He was actually a
couple of a couple of months older than me. I
was just thinking, you know, you went to high school
with these guys who became first call session guy. Landa
(07:53):
and I have no each other were twelve, is that right? Yeah,
So I mean he was my second friend that went
off to you know, Mike and I are still a
close friends. Yeah, one of the best motherfuckers in the world.
And he and uh, you know we're still tight and
uh and Jeff Carl and David Pitch were already first
called guys. Jeff was making Katie live with stealing them
when we were in high school. And we actually learned
(08:15):
aboutch of the stuff with jam On and so um
and so from that we knew a wow session guys
and we started back in those days. Remember, we used
to do demo sessions sort of like the minor leagues
for session guys where you should pay twenty five bucks
a tune or something like to go in there before
machines couldn't make demos. I never got hired because of
(08:37):
my ridiculous sight reading parts. They used to just leave
ship blank because I would try to, you know, I
was I knew that I had to come up with
something better than was on the paper that I mean,
I can read it, and I go, I started playing,
and I go, I think I got something better, you know,
and they let me go with it. And then after
I developed some sort of repetation, they just didn't write
much for me at all, and what you want to play, yeah,
(08:58):
unless it was very specific, and then had to do it.
So your earliest taste with these guys were you called
Toto when was the band name at the time still Still,
which is a much better name. You should have kept
that I did all. I did argue with the Cats early,
but I was nineteen years old and I didn't have
the seniority at the time. I'm like, guys, total, are
(09:19):
you kidding me? And the funniest story about that is
like we were in the middle of the first album
and we have been signed as Toto, and I was like,
I can find this. I mean it's bad now, yeah,
but you know, it is what it is now. It's
been very good to be knock on Wood. But uh,
you know, we didn't know at the time. And then
we get a polaroid in the mail from Tom Scott
who was in Japan at the time, and we didn't
(09:42):
know there was a Total toilet. It's a bolaroid of
his ship floating in the toilet, said Toto on the
toilet was nice name. Oh no, I'm holding en up going.
And then you know, I, honestly God think that name
did not help us at all. It was too easy
to make fun of a band name Total. You know,
(10:02):
I was going, guys, we don't make humor music, but
the fucking But it is now forty three years forty
four years later if you want to count high school
since seventy three, So well, how did his always come
up with the name? I didn't Jeff and Jeff car
and David Pate did. They went out and you know,
had a picture of Mortaritas and some weede and went
back to Jeff's house and watched The Wizard of Laws
and they kept on saying, we need a name like
(10:24):
total simple to the point I'm going. And then they
come and tell us. I'm like, we're doing in the
middle of doing our first record. We don't have a
name yet. Yeah, I'm going total man, somebody guys, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's a great we know I'm going Tony. Yeah. But
the Wizard of a No, no, no no, it's not like that.
It means I'm going yeah, but nobody's gonna think they're
gonna go the Little Dog and the Wizard of Oz.
And sure enough. The clincher was when we were looking
(10:45):
for album covers and Jeff was always our artist guy
because he he wanted to be an artist. Warning he
did a drummer bee that, but you know, the head
of so or not, the head of the art department
from Son. He brought down potential album Bruce, one of
the first ones they had brought an easel like old school,
like they were gonna have the unveiling of their genius
(11:06):
new idea and we're all going, I can't wait to
see this, and Jeff, Jeff being orange, She's gone, this
better be good. Well, this kind of like surfer dude
showed up and he was like, you guys ready to
see it? And he opens up the easel and it's
a dog bowl with curly cords coming out of it,
and on the dog bullet said Toto, and um it
(11:32):
was so bad. There was dead silence in the room
and I think Jeff stood up and asked him to leave,
and maybe not such a nice way. And we sat
back in the room going fuck. And then Jeff found
this guy, Phil Garris, who did the Fiddler cover for
The Grateful Dead. He started living at Jeff's house and
(11:55):
that's how that all came to be. Well, it end
up being a great logo anyway, And well, you know what, man,
you know what's in a name? Yeah, I mean we
tried names like the Butthole Surfers and something. They were going,
you can't do that, you know you can't. And now
it's like, what do you mean? You can call it
whatever then you want to call it. But you know what,
after forty four years, it's been good to me. Some
(12:15):
people like the bands that we played at the band
I think we misunderstood. If you only heard the hits,
that's not really conducive of all what we do. But
you know what, it's kept me in my family alive
for a long time. And I'm grateful for that. What
is hip? Tell me? Tell me, you know, I don't know.
And I'm the only motherfucker's been there for forty three years,
(12:36):
Stevens dried Man for almost over twenty five years, You're
the only founding member that's played every total show and
every total record. And I didn't want to become the
face of the band, but nobody. Everybody left me there.
When Jeff died, everything changed because it originally, of course,
it was really Jeff and Dave's band. You know, they
were the one that came off the They were the
ones that came off the success of Silk Degrees by
(12:58):
Boss Gags, which made him a superstar. And then I jumped.
I was still in school, and then I was asked
to join the band right after Rice school and do
the tour for some Degrees and that opened up I mean,
Jeff picarl and David Page and Uh I had met
uh David Foster, j Graden Lee, written Hour and you
know Carlton and all, you know, all these heroes of mine,
(13:20):
and Jeff pulled me in the back door. You know,
we'd call it go like a be a student fifty
five for Diana Ross and ten minutes. Ry up, man,
you better play good, you know. But and that's how
I got in the door. Because I started playing with
those guys, they gave me the thumbs up. You know.
(13:45):
I've gotten to play with most of my heroes, you know,
and uh, one of them i'm in a band with
now has become a very dear friend, Ringo, just like
you are with Paul, you know. Yeah. I had a
thought that when we were kids, that this would be
our you know, our gig, you know, Yeah, we'd be
friends with all these wonderful musicians and arrows and stuff. Yeah,
that you and I would end up playing with two
of the Beatles. Paul were doing Thriller, right, tell me
(14:12):
about that. That was interesting. We were very very excited
about that. I was starting to work with Quincy a lot.
I think I was about three years old. I was
doing the Dude record, right and he and he was
digging me at the time, and so he says, I
want you to be on the next Michael record. I'm like, oh,
this is cool because off the wall it just happened.
So we knew this was going to be a big record,
(14:33):
you know, And so I got called in to do
all of that stuff with Q, you know, and that's
and then he said, We're going to do a dude
with Paul McCartney and and I want you and Jeff
and Pitch and I think Lewis Johnson played and Foster
might have been on that gig. And so we showed
up and it was all this anticipation, like the two
(14:53):
biggest stars in the world, I mean, obviously being Paul
on the level of his own and Michael was the
hottest star of the time. And so we showed up
early and it was a big scene. There was you
don't understand, this was only a couple of years after
we sadly lost John, So there was a big vibe
about security and being everybody was vetted and all this
(15:15):
other stuff in ways that I wouldn't even wear them,
but whatever. I So I showed up a little bit
early because I want to make sure my ship was right.
Yea exciting day for me to work with the reasons
with one of the guys that's the reason why I
played music. Yeah, this was a big deal. Sure, we
all wanted to be great and wanted especially one Paula
did us. We had already passed the test with Quincy
(15:36):
and ship like that. But Paul walked into the room
with Linda and it was a palpable difference in the
air quality of the room. It was neat and and uh,
Jeff was smoking a joint. Paul Linda walked to the
highest smell of musicians, you know in this something like that.
(15:57):
You know, we were all like, you know, trying not
to blow. I mean, you know, I get stars chucked
out off and when you know, when you meet one
of the Beatles and you never have before, it's kind
of a yeah, it's kind of insane. It's it's intense.
And he couldn't have been the nicest man in the world,
as you will know, yea. And Linda was a groove.
She was great and uh, you know, we did good
(16:17):
on the session and he really dug it. I came
up with some two part thing. He goes, uh, and
he says, you play, I go it's just the two thing.
I thought. I was like, wow, he likes my part. Wow. Yeah,
And so we did. I mean, I was set up
in the south stage for two weeks with Paul and Linda,
and I was on the same stand with Linda, and
when we got there, we were told whatever you do,
don't talk about the Beatles, don't play any Beatles songs,
(16:38):
don't you And we're like, what, we're here with George Martin,
Jeff Emrick, Paul McCartney and set up live and we
can't talk about the Beatles or a rip into a
song of the Beatles. This is terrible. So I ended up,
you know, I didn't see anything because you just don't.
We were two weeks there to do one song, you know,
(16:59):
and we had already gone in and cut it the
first day with George Martin and you know the band.
We nailed the part just in case, and uh, you know,
so anyway, but it was wonderful to be set up.
And I said this to Linda. I said, yeah, after
we became a little bit more friendly and she was
just great to me. I said, yeah, man, you know,
I I don't know what to do. I said, we're
not allowed to, like ask Paul about the Beatles or
(17:19):
playing anything. I go. I feel, you know, it's like
one of my all time I mean, this is a
really terrible thing to do. And I was like, you know,
you're in the room with your all time here and
you can't even talking about it. And she goes, who
the hell told you that? I go, well, the management
whoever said that? We're She goes, that's bollocks, and I
go really, She goes, yeah, I play something. So I
played Please Please Me. I started going to that, and
(17:39):
Jeff looked at me like, are you out of your
fucking mind? And then I started playing, and then he
started saying it, and then Jeff started playing it, and
then we all started playing in their room stopped, you know,
and at the end of it, the whole place went berserk.
And then Paul goes, oh, yes, so let me start
stelling the stories. And the floodgates were open, and we
had lunch every day and as I will, I was
(18:00):
able to pick the brain of George Barton, Jeff Emrick,
and Paul and we just had a blast. Amazing. I'm
glad that you were able to tell Linda that that
was what you were told. And yeah. Another thing about
I mean, you know, she got such a bad rep
for reasons I will never understand. This is one of
the coolest people I've ever met. And she's going to
me and she goes, look, every hates me because I'm
in Paul's She goes, he wants me in the band. Yeah,
(18:21):
I'm going and I'm not talking for Paul. I couldn't
do that. But she said that to me, and I
laughed at when really, I go, you know, girl, you're
the coolest person ever. I go, I don't understand anybody
could say anything about you. Well, they don't know me,
you know, Yeah, I've heard. She's just amazing. Oh. She
was a warm to everybody. She would come up to
people in the crew, the lighting guy, the rigger and
talk to him about whatever was going on. And she
(18:44):
did mean that. She like the kids were all young then, yeah,
and there was no she was hands on. There was
no like you know, nanny's and stuff. John was the
only guy hanging out and he was cool. And but
she goes later look after the kids for a little bit,
you know, while I go off and do the meeting
with Paul, and like, you're leaving me with your children.
I go, me, I'm like the youngest kid here right now.
(19:07):
And she was, you can handle it, and I go.
It was only like for like fifteen minutes or anything.
It wasn't like any big deal. But I was so nervous,
you know, and the kids were great, so it wasn't
like I had to do anything. I was just going, hey,
you guys, gotta be cool. I'm supposed to look after
you would remember any of this, but I remember because
it was like if I blow this, I'm really and
Ship's creek, you know. But it was very cool. It
(19:28):
was great. She just try and that she said, like
you know, autographed like you know, photo books, and would
explain things. It was just what over the top nights, man,
I've heard that was the best. He was the greatest.
I'm not telling you anything, you do know. And we
had a blast and then I didn't see him again
until we did that, you know, the fiftieth anniversary, which
I'm sure it was as much of a trip for
(19:49):
you as it was for me. What killed me was
like waiting backstage to go on to play the gig
and then showing them showing hard days night and I
remember log in my grandmother like a thousand times to
take me to see this movie. Yeah I think you know,
nobody else wanted to see it anymore, but I had
to see this thing as many times as possible. Yeah. Yeah,
And when she went out and bought me my beetle boots,
(20:11):
even though my parents thought my feet would grow into
a or something like that, you know what I mean,
you know, and I'm like this. My grandma was the coolest,
you know, So all these memories hit me. Yeah, did
you have a Beatle wig? No, we did. I didn't
have a Beatle I had a new stepfather in the
family and he was, you know, sort of courting the kids,
the four of us. The Beatles had just come out,
(20:32):
and he brought us all beatle wigs well, which I
really appreciate. But like you, I was in the middle
of the living room, cross legged waiting for the Beatles
to come on because we'd heard like one single on
the radio. And what the hell is this? It was
like the parting of the season. It was like aliens
landed and gave us the secrets, you know what I mean.
(20:53):
And this music still holds up to me. Yeah, and
the records do too, and they never retired from me.
And you know it's funny, you know it is, you know,
really it was. It's eight years of my life. When
you think of what they did in eight years. Yeah,
from I Love Me Do to Abbey Road, the Growth. Yeah,
(21:14):
and you know, it's still the gold standard. Whenever you
were in the studio making a record. You and you
can when you're kind of a beadily thing. Everybody knows
what that is. Yea. And I say to Ringo, who
really pisses me off of people give ship about his drumming? Yeah,
I go, okay, first off, how many drummers you know?
If you just play the drum track, you know what
(21:34):
song it is. That's right. There was no click tracks
on those gigs and they had to play Now. Is
he Billy cobbam? No, But you're not looking him to
be you don't want him to be. Yeah. And you know, remarkable.
He's one of the most amazing people I've ever known.
And we've been palaced for like eight years now. Amazing, man.
(21:54):
I told me had to kill me to get rid
of me. You man, I can see you guys are
hanging out. We've been around each other a lot over
the years. Ringo with you and be with Paul and
I think starting with that fiftieth anniversary Ed Sullivan and
just watching him with he gravitates to you all the time. Well,
(22:15):
you know, we just hit it off. You know, if
his name was Bob Smith, he would be my pal.
This is the coolest guy I've ever met. Yeah, he
is a you know, I'm very grateful and fortunate that
you know, he took a shine to me and and
we're buds. We hang out all the time. Yeah, and
you know, I just a door m as a human being.
What was your first meeting with Ringo? Like, what were you? Well?
I had servius and anxious about it. I really wanted
(22:36):
the gig because I knew I could make. First off,
I knew I could make the band. I was going
to give everything I had to make this a great band.
I wanted to make you know. I got the call
from Mark Rivera and I said, look, man, I'm gonna
I really want to get in here and kick ass thing. Man.
I want to do a great job for the band
and make sure everybody's working his hard on everybody else's
songs as their own, because apparently I heard stories that
(23:00):
nobody guys in the band would only give a shit
about their songs and they'd scuffle through everybody else's tunes. Yeah,
that's not a band, wouldn't do that. That's part of
the gag. Yeah, it's an all star bands. You know,
with our experience in the studios and all this stuff,
I mean I was doing this ship. Every day. You
showed up and you gave everything you had to whatever
(23:20):
piece of music was laying on to you exactly. And
if I thought that these are important parts, I'd learned
the parts off the record and go play it like
this is It's right. Those are the hooks. Yeah, that's
what the people want to hear when they hear these songs.
You know what. I'm sitting playing Santanna songs Greg Rawley
and was like, you know, and he's killing it, like
that's that he hasn't lost the lick. Man. He sounds great,
his voice is playing. I mean, he's incredibly because it's
(23:42):
one of the nicest cats on planet Earth. Yeah, it
was great seeing you there at the Greek Theater and
hanging out with you before the show. But I was
I was really struck with that that that band cared
about every single song that was being played. When I
get to play bass on the on the Hamish's Back
Hamish Stewart, so I get to play bas based on
some of the you know, and how great as that?
And I loved it because I love to play bass. Yeah,
(24:04):
like that guitar bassement. Yeah, you know, look at what
you did. All of a sudden, you get the gig
and like, you've got to be a bass player too,
and you've got to be a bass player. With Paul
McCartney looking at you, it's like, that's right, it's a
little like okay, Well basically I didn't look up for
the first six months. I mean it's like I looked
out on the side of my eye and there's Paul
McCartney with the footlights on. It looks like Chase Stadium,
(24:25):
and I'm going like, oh shit, I gotta really do
this right, So great? How you got the gig? Though? Yeah,
you know your buddy Rusty, right, so come on. Actually
it was Abe. It was you know, Rusty and a
We're both friends of mine, but they didn't know each
other yet really played with each of them. Like I've
been touring with Abe in France, with Milan Farmer and
(24:49):
right and with Rusty. He was a neighbor of mine
and he was just like a guitar bud and we
trade gear and share on each other's demos and do
that stuff that we do as good A sweet kid, great,
great guy. But the call came because Abe had gotten
the call to do that album and he was at
a dinner that I was having and I said, well,
(25:09):
so Abe, like, who's gonna play bass when Paul plays
guitar and piano And who's gonna play guitar when he
plays bass? Who's gonna do that? He goes, well, actually, yeah,
we're looking for a guitar player who plays a bit
of bass. And I put my hand up. I said, man,
I'd love a shot at that. And that's how I
love the way you play bass in the bands because
you played bass. See a lot of guys like us,
(25:32):
like if you give a guitar player of bass and
he starts playing, act like you have to hold those
whole notes that that one has to be full value
on the cordon note exactly. You know what I mean.
It's a different pot if you got a different mindset
I used. I love playing bass. I play based on
my own records. Ship Yeah, I played bassed on total
records anybody? Yeah, And didn't you play Did you play
(25:55):
some bass on some early sessions as well? Did might
play bass on beating? That was gonna say because of
the way the record went down. I mean I wasn't like,
you know, I played bass on a few things. I mean,
I played bass on my son on the song I
wrote with Foster for and Fee for talk to you
later from the twos because the Basic Play refused to
play on it because because yeah that guys, what do
(26:16):
you mean? A mean for? I didn't try to steal
your gig? Have you we done sessions? Were the guy
in the band that you're replacing is in the room? Yes,
I have sucked with Shakira. It sucked and I'm not
going to name names, but man, it was really really awkward. Yeah,
I mean there to replace the guitar parts that he'd
already played. Yeah, that was a co writer. Yeah, it
(26:38):
was a little bit brutal, but anyway, it was I've
had that wonderful experience. I'm going, why don't you play this? Like,
come on, what am I doing? And I'm going to
the person, what the funk? Would you invite this guy here? Ye? Right?
You know what I mean? But you just mentioned, um,
Michael Jackson. So you were first meeting with him, did
did you? Did I understand that you've got a phone call,
(26:59):
you know, o'clock in the morning, like a nineteen eighty one,
and you know what was up in nineteen eighty one.
I get this call at eight in the morning. Hi,
this is Mic I'm gonna fuck you. I don't have
the phone. A few minutes later, the same phone call. No, really,
it's to me. I'm going, okay, man, what moron calls?
He was just at the eight o'clock in the morning
at nineteen eighty what's up? Where are we? I just
(27:20):
went to sleep? Man, the funk is this? It's Mike,
I'm gonna funk off. Which one are my knucklet of friends?
As boom nobody calls. About ten o'clock that morning, I
got a call from Quincy's office from Joanne, who would
normally call. Then I get a call from you. You know,
that was really Michael. He should call him back, and
I went, oh, So I called him back and I said, hey,
(27:41):
I am any answers, I get the bad phone any
answers and I go Michael Steve Luca and he's just laughing.
I go, man, I'm so sorry. You know, I thought
it was a gag. He goes, Oh, it happens all
the time. Yeah. I had the same experience with Paul
that we had just done our first which I guess
was my audition, which was one song for this Super
Bowl in two thousand two, like before the national anthem,
(28:04):
oh create your first show is a billion people will see,
no pressure at all, nothing right. And at the end
of that gig, which is New Orleans, just one song,
he gives me a hug and says, Okay, well, i'll
see you back in l a Man in five weeks.
We're gonna start rehearsing and went what He goes, Yeah,
welcome aboard, stick with aban Rusty to show you the ropes.
(28:26):
And that was it. So I go back home, like
set up a guitar, bass and acoustic, a mike, big
old stack of CDs, remember those CDs and uh, And
I'm rolling through everything he's ever recorded, beatles, solo, wings
and everything. And I get a call one day, he goes,
and I picked up, going hello, Hi, Brian, it's Paul,
(28:49):
and I go Paul who Yeah, And he goes, you
know Paul the bass player, and go Paul, who goes
Paul McCartney And I go, no, it hasn't He goes, Brian.
Is Paul called, I got no way? And he laughed,
so he laughed so hard that he had to hold
the phone far away and just like Michael for you,
(29:09):
he said, it happens all the time to him. Yeah,
so I think they just like to funk with us. Yeah, basically, yeah,
for sure. No, when you asked me about the first
time I met Ringo, I really wanted the gig, you know,
I told Keltner and and like Greg Biscinetta is the guy,
You're perfect for this band. And he brought Dave Hart,
whose Ringo's agent and producer of the shows, to see
(29:30):
us play tot I was playing and they were on
the road in Europe and we were playing, and that's
the arena there, and he brought Dave Hart to see
me play, and Dave really dug it and he chooses,
so he put me up for the gig. And the
idea of Ringo has to approve everybody, so like he
listened to music and said either yes or no. And
I called Keltner and I said, Jim, call him and
(29:52):
tell him I really want this gig. Look me up,
you know, put in a high good word for me,
because I just wanted to do a season and say
that I did it. Yeah, and it worked out great,
you know, and then you know, so I got the gig,
but I couldn't tell anybody, but and I think at
that time we had just had lunch. You called me
and so let's hang out. And we met somewhere and
I started playing Bringer, and you looked at me like
(30:13):
and Willie looked at me in the same way. When
I said, I said, I said, what is what? The look?
He goes, well, man, you know he's great. He's had
some interesting bands that didn't Gael really well, you know,
And I said, well, I'm gonna make that difference. And
Kelton I was like, going, you can go in and
make this better. I go. If I don't, then I sucked.
And not to say that there weren't great bands, because
there were, but there weren't bands that were cohesive on
(30:35):
a friend level, like on a hang level, which is
we both know it's pretty important when you got to
spend all that time on the Rico just wants to laugh.
He just wants to hang on. He doesn't need the money.
He wants to do the work, but he wants to
have a good time man because he doesn't need to
do it. Thinks that ring goes he's a band guy. Yeah,
he wants to play. He takes the music really seriously.
(30:57):
And I love him for that. Yeah, and you know, oh,
it's it's all about that to him, you know, and
you take you know, like rehearsals are important, going to myself,
I'm going to we really need to rehears He likes
to feel better about really having it together. So what
was your first meeting with him? Like, well, I came
off of I just got into Canada and it was
a late flight, so I got in late and it
(31:20):
was about I don't know, nine thirty at night and
I got off before and he was waiting for me,
and he opened up the door and he came out
and he gave me a big hug. He says, welcome onboard.
He goes, not get some rest, were starting early. I said, yes, sir,
But he gave me a really warm hug, and I said,
I'm gonna fucking make this. I'm gonna give this everything
I got. Like what's smoking, drinking and doing the fucking
(31:52):
illegal ship you know over ten years ago. You know,
you and I come from a time in the seventies
and eighties when we were coming up in business. Well
asleep when I'm dead years Yeah, when it's what you did,
I wish I could get that back. But how stupid
was that? Yeah, I don't miss any of that ship.
And you know, I woke up one day and I
said this is it, and I never I quit smoking
(32:13):
and drinking. Every same thing never looked back as funny
as it. Stopping smoking is what led me to stop
drinking and using too. Yeah, they all go together. Yeah,
they do take one out of the equation. It's all wrong. Yes,
it's like it's like doing a bump with one side
and not getting the other. That's right. Yeah. Well, I'm
glad that you ended up changed. I mean I had
(32:34):
well listen, I'm really ashamed. I mean I went through
a period of time where almost destroyed my career because
I would suck. I was so miserable doing what I
was doing and I didn't care. And what an awful
thing to all of a sudden not care interesting, And
people were beating up on me and they should have. Ye.
I was squandering a great career and I was blowing it.
I was ashamed of myself, and I spent ten years
(32:56):
trying to get that back and apologizing and admitting it.
And I look that I it got the best of me,
and it ruined my playing well what change? What did
you wake up one day just say that's sucking it? Well,
I mean, the depression was hitting and I realized I
hit a wall. I felt like Ship all the time.
I started day drinking. I started doing all this ship
you weren't supposed to do. I couldn't even look at
myself in the mirror when I was brushing my teeth.
(33:18):
It was that bad. I was puffy and red. I
looked like Ship. I didn't. I was ashamed of myself,
but I kept You know, you just keep going so
you don't feel it, and then when you finally feel it,
it's brutal, you know. So I had a couple of
days of sweats and depression, and then you know, I
went through while of ship, you know. But you know
I never went back to, you know, wanting to have
(33:39):
a drink. I mean, I lost my days for it. Yeah,
and I just don't want any part of that life anymore,
you know. I mean not to the point where I
was a blithering idiot, you know what I mean. Occasionally
something comes up and the comments section is like, it's
a brutal boy. If you ever had an ego, you
can get rid of that real quick. Oh, Yeah, I
just stayed away from the comment section. I mean, I
(34:00):
was getting beat up to just you're not John Leonard
or something. You know absolutely and you don't get through
this life, in this career, of all these years that
you and I have done this without some embarrassing moments
on YouTube. So it's just like I stayed the hell
away from the comments sections. But I think it's it's
just toxic. Let's talk about the earlier years of your
session work and and and songwriting collaborations. Run us to
(34:24):
a couple of guitar solos that you would deem your
favorites that I don't know out there, that you're responsible
for some of the most killer guitar solos in popping
realm and history. Come on, brother, come on, we're talking
about Running with the Night by Lionel. Richie was it?
I wouldn't even try And I was going, what keys
(34:46):
is in? I had my last ball out and fifty
nine plugging crank and he goes, well, obviously this was
the time right after beat It. So it's like, oh,
rock solos R and B are gonna be cool. Yeah,
So I've been working with Richie and I love rich
She was great. He goes, I got the song run
with the Night, and I want you to play all
over it, and I go, okay, well what he's let
me figure it out. So I just play all over it.
(35:06):
Just I'm warming up doing my thing. I'm I'm picking
the spots that are rather obvious, and I'm playing and
they're digging it. And at the end of it, I go, great,
let's make one. Let's do it. I think I got
a handle. He goes, you just did. What do you mean?
I don't even know the song, goes It's great, You're done.
I was out. That's the thing to me. I played
too much on the record. They used it all, but
that was a long time ago that so I cracked
(35:28):
up on That was like a negative session. I didn't
even get one take. I didn't even know we were
keeping it. And I used to get I used to
be pretty good at getting it quick because you didn't
have a lot of tracks. Yeah, something's got by. They
were a little likely. That was a little wonder That
was a little dodging. I wish I could do that again.
But at the same time, that was the ship was happening.
Man with the part of the style of the times,
Man you kid. I got in there and did what
(35:49):
I had to do because I had to. That was
the gig where you gotta be tan guitar players. That
was what I found the best challenge because I get
to be everybody's guitar players. So I was really careful
about getting the right sound, playing the right parts. Rocky,
you know, play this iconic part of the Santana, So
I can you not play this George Harrison solo with
the right sound and usual leslie on this And I
tried to give it my all to everyone. Todd needs this,
(36:11):
I'm gonna play this or whoever needs one. I'm into it,
you know what I mean. That's as a session guy.
That was just normal behavior for me. Yeah. So and
you know that you get and then you do the job,
and of course you learn the parts on the record.
Are you gonna come up with a better base play
at the Palm card? Exactly right? And am I gonna
put them up with a better soulo than the one
that's on? You know? George Harrison played on it Don't
(36:33):
come easy again? Simple, but it's classic. Yeah, it's classic.
I want to talk about Africa a little bit. When
it came time for where were you when you heard
the Weezer version of it? So we said, was that
something that was just like out of the blue or no?
They said they sent this, uh Rosanna first, that's pretty interesting, okay,
(36:53):
And you know, I don't understand why they were doing it.
You know, I think, as I come to find out,
there was a girl, sweet girl, fifteen year old girl
from back east who you know, she was heard our
song on Stranger Things, believe it or not, and for
a year was bugging Rivers come out if I could
cut the tracks. Apparently they do old songs in the
(37:15):
seventies and eighties and do some covers. But the first
I think, yeah, well they did Rosanna, we got that,
and we were like, okay, well nice trying their guys.
And then they did um Africa, and really they did.
They tried to do pretty much the same arrangement. They
just put the crunchy guitars in the solo and Rivers
did all the harmonies. Yeah, I thought, he man, why not?
(37:37):
The group was a little funny to me because of
the way we made the record was Jeff and and
Lenny and the Paul of the loops and stuff. It
was these guys are more approaching it like a rock band. Yeah,
and you know, hey, they did a good job. It
was a hit. Let's hit you with a couple of
quick ones. This is a section of the show we
want to call the encore. We know that the non
(37:57):
glamorous side of what we do is the travel. What's
the craziest travel story that's happened to you? I think
getting to South Africa from l A was pretty rough.
That was a thirty hour uh, you know, door to door.
I think I donated my underwear to science at that point. Man, o, God,
you did not. No, I'm just kidding, you know, that
(38:19):
was rough. It's just a waiting around. Man, It's the
cancel flights. It's the getting in after an all night
or you know, even when you were fortunate enough to
do like what we get to do with with the guys,
which is traveling really well, you're still it's still you know,
you get there three in the morning, you get there,
it's interrupted sleep, it's you know, even the best to travel.
(38:40):
It's you know, we've been doing this with my whole life.
You've been doing your whole same Yeah, we'll tell me this.
What's the most embarrassing thing that happened to you on stage?
And how did you get through it? Food poisoning? Oh
my god, me too? So do you win? Did the
show anyway? One of those like jazz Fusion gigs were
(39:00):
doing fourteen in a row. I couldn't afford to blow
one out, Lord almighty, you know, so you have to
work a lot to make the money. And uh, I
was on stage and like, you know, yeah, you know,
I could have fucking crushed the walnut between my butt cheeks. Man,
you know, I couldn't turn a piece of coal into
a diamond, you know, And uh, you know I had
like yell, drum solo at a very opportune moment and
(39:22):
run down the stairs. And there's nothing like that feeling
of sitting on the commode having fucking mount Vesuvia's coming
out of your ainus while the band is still playing
and you're going like okay, man, you know, and then
you realize that like it's really bad, and like you know,
and you gotta fucking get through this again. You get
up there and everybody a plauds, and you get through
(39:44):
and you got that weird sweat, you know what I mean.
It's like you're going every song is like thirty minutes long,
and you're like, God, I'm gonna get out of this,
you know. Oh man, you know, so that's a bad one,
embarrassing things, and I say, just forgetting ship and just
being an idiot. But hey, we all do that, okay.
Is there anyone that you've played with, our met backstage
(40:05):
that you've been completely starstruck by? Well, you know, the
same people by you um over the years. When I
first met them, people like Jeff Beck and obviously Paul,
George and Ringo. You know, when I first met George,
that was a trip. I was at the nightclub, believe
it or not, right right after Jeff died and we
were going to do a gig at the Amphitheaters as
(40:27):
a tribute to him. And you know, George came and
played with us. I met him that night and we
hit it up. I just want to say thank you
for my entire career, and he says, sit on for
a second. I started making him laughing the next night.
We were really good friends until he got stabbed and
then he lost touch with everybody. And then I would
get a message through Keltner somebody saying George said I
(40:47):
he would call me. I wish I could had kept
some of the great outc Hey, it's a new good buddy,
George fancy Meal, you know. I remember driving him, me
and Keltner. I was working on my second solo record
back at ninety three, and he he goes, so come
on's go have dinner. Keltoner's coming and Jim knew I
was walking. Let's stop by the studio and think what
you're doing. We were working on it. So I drove
(41:10):
him into Capitol right after the Blue and the Red
album Best of Beatles or whatever they call. Hilume wanted
to the Blue one and the well they had the
mega life size, like as high as the Capitol building,
the size of four Beatles backstay and I drive into
the lot and he goes, bloody hell, and he's like
(41:31):
it's massive. And I and I walk into Capitol, you know,
the security with George Harrison and and they're looking at
me and looking at him. I go, I bet you
don't need to see his I d do you? Uh?
And they just let us in and they hung out
for a while. But we hung out a bunch. I
heard free as a bird before everybody took me up
to his place, he was staying at the bell everyone
(41:53):
untel with with Olivia, who's awesome, and um, he played
that for me and you know, he came in jam
with us and he just became a great pound and
then he and I never got to say goodbye. That's
so sad. Well, so tell me the last question. What
are you listening to right now that you're excited about? Yeah,
I'm not just saying this because he's my kid. He's
(42:14):
in a band microcos someplace based from one direction as
a killer drummer, and they found the singer that's just insane, Josh,
and they just made a record that's just ridiculous. They
may say rock and roll, for it's it's like if
you can imagine a young def Leppard? Is that right?
With the song quality of hooks? And my son plays
guitar not but weirdly got at all. He's never that.
(42:36):
I said, I'll get a bolt gutter if I see
it with that, I go, that's so over there. Go
be a songwriter, be fine. Parts got a great feel,
and he went for that. He and he wrote some
great ship and now he's sitting there waiting for it
to come out and go. I'm like, oh, my god,
what's the band name? Z f G zero Fox Giving.
I like it and you know it's and it's a
(42:57):
big deal that's coming out. Man, I'm really proud of it's.
It's not just good for It's like, holy fuck, this
is great. Fuck you, this is too good, you know.
And he's cracking up. But he's been twenty twenty year
overnight success, you know. I mean, he's been working really hard.
I wish I could tell you I helped him. I
helped him with a few things, introducing the right people,
but everything he did he did on his own. Amazing. Yeah,
(43:19):
he's a good kid. He's a great kid. Hen he
skipped over all the awful ship that I did. He
actually listened to me. Well, thank you so much man
for s this is a blast. I'd like to thank
(43:43):
everyone for listening, and thank you to Steve for having
us sober to his beautiful home and spending so much
time sharing his incredible stories. Be sure to watch for
Steve's new music on his website Steve lucathur dot com
on tour. As a production of I Heart Radio and
Black Barrel Media, this show is produced by Mandy Wimmer,
with executive producer Noel Brown and I'm your Host Brian Ray.
(44:07):
For more information about on Tour, visit our website black
Barrel Media dot com for behind the scenes photos from
these interviews and interact with us. Visit our social media
at on Tour pod on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. For
more shows from My Heart Radio and Black Barrel Media.
Just at the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or
(44:28):
wherever you get your favorite podcasts.
On tour as a production of I Heart Radio and
Black Barrel Media. I'm your host, Brian ray On. This
show will take you behind the scenes of the music
business to give you the most raw, real tales you've
likely never heard before. We'll share our wildest, most unbelievable,
and yes, most embarrassing moments while on tour. In this episode,
I caught up with my good friends Steve Lucathur. Steve
(00:34):
does it all singer, songwriter, guitarist, producer, composer. He has
one of the longest running gigs in the industry and
he's won more awards than we have time to list,
including five Grammys. As a founding member of the band
Toto and now lead singer, he's never missed a show
in forty years. In addition to the mega hits Toto
has given us, Steve has also been a part of
(00:56):
more hit songs than you probably realize, among them Michael
Jackson's Thriller and Beat It. He's contributed to albums by
Van Halen and Joe Cocker. He's toured with Jeff Beck.
Peter Frampton is currently a big part of Ringo Stars
All Star band. We could spend hours sharing his stories,
So we did our best to hit the highlights with Toto,
(01:18):
his touching stories with Paul and Lyndon McCartney and his
friendship with Ringo Star, while not forgetting that time he's
snubbed the king of pop. Here's my conversation with Steve Lucather. Hey, Steve,
(01:41):
good to see your brother Brian. It's only been one
forty four years or whatever, forty three years as we
have been he had, we've been known each other a while, yeah,
I guess. So we met in about right, ma'am. Of
the girls, but my first uh wife Marie and her
twin sister Sari did a record and you were playing,
(02:03):
and I just was dragged along because like I'm the
boyfriend of one of them. I said, y're all come
a long, but had you and Joey Brassler was a
great guitar players. I just fumbled along and double evers parts.
I mean, come on, this wasn't Mahavish new music, you know, yeah, exactly, well,
it wasn't exactly Mahavish new music. It wasn't prag rock.
But all I remember from that because I was pretty
(02:26):
loaded during that time. But what I do remember is
seeing your smiling face and Joey Brassler and having a blast. Yeah. Well,
Joey and I went to high school together. Didn't realize that,
you know, that whole thing Grand High School with Mike
lan Down, myself, the Picarl Brothers, John Pierce Beard wasn't
(02:46):
was older, you know. I didn't meet Mike until like
I started doing sessions, like you know, the first time
I'm working this in seventy eight. I started actually doing
sessions in seventy seven for real, like you know, which
is hard to believe, and the time amazing. Yeah. So
I remember getting a call. I was looking for something
to do. I had just come back from a tour
with at a James opening for the Stone, so I
(03:08):
was like, no for something completely different, yeah, and looking
for something to do because you like that gig with
ed A Jane Oh, with Si, with Sharie and Marie
Curry with you. Uh well, I was just you know,
boyfriend at the time. I wasn't really in the band,
you know. Yeah, that's not how I heard it. Steve
Luke at Theirs on guitar and this was Joey Brassler
(03:31):
calling me year old school saying know them? Is that right? Yeah?
I just showed up so I'd be with my girlfriend
do something, and you guys were just newly dated. Yeah,
I mean she was I was twenty or she was nineteen.
I was twenty one, one of the two, you know,
damn look at that I was. I guess I was
twenty three. Were about the same age. But anyway, I
was just looking for something to do, and Joey called
(03:52):
me and said, you know, we're gonna do a string
of dates around California and some western states. Scott Carlson
was the manager. Well, man, I couldn't have been happy
to be there. We we had a blast. So we
had a great time because I love the way you play,
and I just thought, well, what am I doing here?
But you don't need me, so I just let every
let you guys pretty much, Allen, I just jumped the
rhythm ship. Do you have any memories from our touring days?
(04:15):
You know, I was never as bad as the papers say,
Oh man, we've been too lucky. Blokes man a pretty
good run man. Between doing all the sessions and then
I get to play with them. You know, I love
Ringo and and uh we're hanging with him. He's become
a dear friend of mine and I it doesn't it
just the hang is great and it's my vacation gig.
We're going to have fun, and that's what it is.
(04:36):
I can dig that, man. So I remember reading that
you started playing because of your love for the Beatles
and George Harrison. Is that right? Well, the whole thing,
you know, I watched in the nineteen sixty four like
everybody else, you know what I mean, like, and it
was like life went from black and white to color
like the Wizard of Oz ironically, um, and I just
became obsessed. And the sound of the guitar. I remember
(04:58):
hearing the solo and I saw are standing there mesmerized.
But I played it over and over and over again toil.
My father said if he played then again, I'm going
to kill you. So I used to get real soft
and put it and then I started just fumbling around
on it. And then one day it just made sense
to me, and I started playing all the first position
guitar chords. No one ever taught them to me, Is
(05:19):
that right? So? Were you always helped taught to you?
Ever go to? You know? I started saying when I
was about fourteen, when I realized that you know I had.
I had a pretty good year. I can figure stuff out.
But then when I met the Picaro brothers, when me
and Landau and John Druce went to Grant High School,
we met Steve Pacara and his whole family, and all
of a sudden, everything was like, WHOA, what's this session musicians?
(05:41):
And what do we gotta learn? Funk? I gotta learn
how to read music, which is really difficult to do.
Have you've been playing for seven years and you start
to have to start reading Maryanne a little lamb or
something like that. And then my teacher, Jimmy Wible, very patient,
God bless his soul, but I had to learn a
lot fast. And then we were the first class of
the Dick Grove School back in North I would yeah,
(06:01):
John Pierros of Pcaros, I mean it was the first
class of almost everybody in the in the class has
made a good career of being a musician. Yeah, so
that was pretty clos really something. Yeah, But you know, man,
it was just like once I got into the studying thing,
I started studying a orchestration composition with Dr Albert Harris,
like Jimmy Wible with Dick Grove. I took every music
(06:21):
class in high school, which, by the way, we really
need music in schools man, Yeah, damn right, we do.
I mean I was never in the orchestra of the
band or anything like that, but being around the music, studying,
harmony theory, first level piano, you know, all the sight
singing stuff. Do you think you'd never use I actually
(06:42):
really did use it on you know, when I started
doing sessions and yeah, you know, I really had to
get it together. It was. It was just very fortunately,
grateful and lucky that I got the shot that I did. Yeah,
it is unfortunate. It's been cut from a lot of
school budgets. But you know, one day, yeah, maybe one
day we'll get to return to that because it's not
just the music and exercising that part of your brain.
(07:05):
It's the camaraderie. And again, it's like a sport without
the grass stains. I mean, reading music is just like
learning a foreign language. It's not necessary, but it sure
as hell helps if you're in the country that they
speak that foreign language exactly. That's really well sad. So
thinking about your career in the earliest days and you're
talking about Pricaro and and Landau, Joey and Babe Pierce
(07:29):
right that used to be his nickname, right, Yeah, yeah,
well that's a long story, no, John, and John was
my very first friend in the entire world. Our parents
were pregnant. It's the same block were so before you
guys came to be. Yeah, we high five each other
on the way, and he was He was actually a
couple of a couple of months older than me. I
was just thinking, you know, you went to high school
with these guys who became first call session guy. Landa
(07:53):
and I have no each other were twelve, is that right? Yeah,
So I mean he was my second friend that went
off to you know, Mike and I are still a
close friends. Yeah, one of the best motherfuckers in the world.
And he and uh, you know we're still tight and
uh and Jeff Carl and David Pitch were already first
called guys. Jeff was making Katie live with stealing them
when we were in high school. And we actually learned
(08:15):
aboutch of the stuff with jam On and so um
and so from that we knew a wow session guys
and we started back in those days. Remember, we used
to do demo sessions sort of like the minor leagues
for session guys where you should pay twenty five bucks
a tune or something like to go in there before
machines couldn't make demos. I never got hired because of
(08:37):
my ridiculous sight reading parts. They used to just leave
ship blank because I would try to, you know, I
was I knew that I had to come up with
something better than was on the paper that I mean,
I can read it, and I go, I started playing,
and I go, I think I got something better, you know,
and they let me go with it. And then after
I developed some sort of repetation, they just didn't write
much for me at all, and what you want to play, yeah,
(08:58):
unless it was very specific, and then had to do it.
So your earliest taste with these guys were you called
Toto when was the band name at the time still Still,
which is a much better name. You should have kept
that I did all. I did argue with the Cats early,
but I was nineteen years old and I didn't have
the seniority at the time. I'm like, guys, total, are
(09:19):
you kidding me? And the funniest story about that is
like we were in the middle of the first album
and we have been signed as Toto, and I was like,
I can find this. I mean it's bad now, yeah,
but you know, it is what it is now. It's
been very good to be knock on Wood. But uh,
you know, we didn't know at the time. And then
we get a polaroid in the mail from Tom Scott
who was in Japan at the time, and we didn't
(09:42):
know there was a Total toilet. It's a bolaroid of
his ship floating in the toilet, said Toto on the
toilet was nice name. Oh no, I'm holding en up going.
And then you know, I, honestly God think that name
did not help us at all. It was too easy
to make fun of a band name Total. You know,
(10:02):
I was going, guys, we don't make humor music, but
the fucking But it is now forty three years forty
four years later if you want to count high school
since seventy three, So well, how did his always come
up with the name? I didn't Jeff and Jeff car
and David Pate did. They went out and you know,
had a picture of Mortaritas and some weede and went
back to Jeff's house and watched The Wizard of Laws
and they kept on saying, we need a name like
(10:24):
total simple to the point I'm going. And then they
come and tell us. I'm like, we're doing in the
middle of doing our first record. We don't have a
name yet. Yeah, I'm going total man, somebody guys, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's a great we know I'm going Tony. Yeah. But
the Wizard of a No, no, no no, it's not like that.
It means I'm going yeah, but nobody's gonna think they're
gonna go the Little Dog and the Wizard of Oz.
And sure enough. The clincher was when we were looking
(10:45):
for album covers and Jeff was always our artist guy
because he he wanted to be an artist. Warning he
did a drummer bee that, but you know, the head
of so or not, the head of the art department
from Son. He brought down potential album Bruce, one of
the first ones they had brought an easel like old school,
like they were gonna have the unveiling of their genius
(11:06):
new idea and we're all going, I can't wait to
see this, and Jeff, Jeff being orange, She's gone, this
better be good. Well, this kind of like surfer dude
showed up and he was like, you guys ready to
see it? And he opens up the easel and it's
a dog bowl with curly cords coming out of it,
and on the dog bullet said Toto, and um it
(11:32):
was so bad. There was dead silence in the room
and I think Jeff stood up and asked him to leave,
and maybe not such a nice way. And we sat
back in the room going fuck. And then Jeff found
this guy, Phil Garris, who did the Fiddler cover for
The Grateful Dead. He started living at Jeff's house and
(11:55):
that's how that all came to be. Well, it end
up being a great logo anyway, And well, you know what, man,
you know what's in a name? Yeah, I mean we
tried names like the Butthole Surfers and something. They were going,
you can't do that, you know you can't. And now
it's like, what do you mean? You can call it
whatever then you want to call it. But you know what,
after forty four years, it's been good to me. Some
(12:15):
people like the bands that we played at the band
I think we misunderstood. If you only heard the hits,
that's not really conducive of all what we do. But
you know what, it's kept me in my family alive
for a long time. And I'm grateful for that. What
is hip? Tell me? Tell me, you know, I don't know.
And I'm the only motherfucker's been there for forty three years,
(12:36):
Stevens dried Man for almost over twenty five years, You're
the only founding member that's played every total show and
every total record. And I didn't want to become the
face of the band, but nobody. Everybody left me there.
When Jeff died, everything changed because it originally, of course,
it was really Jeff and Dave's band. You know, they
were the one that came off the They were the
ones that came off the success of Silk Degrees by
(12:58):
Boss Gags, which made him a superstar. And then I jumped.
I was still in school, and then I was asked
to join the band right after Rice school and do
the tour for some Degrees and that opened up I mean,
Jeff picarl and David Page and Uh I had met
uh David Foster, j Graden Lee, written Hour and you
know Carlton and all, you know, all these heroes of mine,
(13:20):
and Jeff pulled me in the back door. You know,
we'd call it go like a be a student fifty
five for Diana Ross and ten minutes. Ry up, man,
you better play good, you know. But and that's how
I got in the door. Because I started playing with
those guys, they gave me the thumbs up. You know.
(13:45):
I've gotten to play with most of my heroes, you know,
and uh, one of them i'm in a band with
now has become a very dear friend, Ringo, just like
you are with Paul, you know. Yeah. I had a
thought that when we were kids, that this would be
our you know, our gig, you know, Yeah, we'd be
friends with all these wonderful musicians and arrows and stuff. Yeah,
that you and I would end up playing with two
of the Beatles. Paul were doing Thriller, right, tell me
(14:12):
about that. That was interesting. We were very very excited
about that. I was starting to work with Quincy a lot.
I think I was about three years old. I was
doing the Dude record, right and he and he was
digging me at the time, and so he says, I
want you to be on the next Michael record. I'm like, oh,
this is cool because off the wall it just happened.
So we knew this was going to be a big record,
(14:33):
you know, And so I got called in to do
all of that stuff with Q, you know, and that's
and then he said, We're going to do a dude
with Paul McCartney and and I want you and Jeff
and Pitch and I think Lewis Johnson played and Foster
might have been on that gig. And so we showed
up and it was all this anticipation, like the two
(14:53):
biggest stars in the world, I mean, obviously being Paul
on the level of his own and Michael was the
hottest star of the time. And so we showed up
early and it was a big scene. There was you
don't understand, this was only a couple of years after
we sadly lost John, So there was a big vibe
about security and being everybody was vetted and all this
(15:15):
other stuff in ways that I wouldn't even wear them,
but whatever. I So I showed up a little bit
early because I want to make sure my ship was right.
Yea exciting day for me to work with the reasons
with one of the guys that's the reason why I
played music. Yeah, this was a big deal. Sure, we
all wanted to be great and wanted especially one Paula
did us. We had already passed the test with Quincy
(15:36):
and ship like that. But Paul walked into the room
with Linda and it was a palpable difference in the
air quality of the room. It was neat and and uh,
Jeff was smoking a joint. Paul Linda walked to the
highest smell of musicians, you know in this something like that.
(15:57):
You know, we were all like, you know, trying not
to blow. I mean, you know, I get stars chucked
out off and when you know, when you meet one
of the Beatles and you never have before, it's kind
of a yeah, it's kind of insane. It's it's intense.
And he couldn't have been the nicest man in the world,
as you will know, yea. And Linda was a groove.
She was great and uh, you know, we did good
(16:17):
on the session and he really dug it. I came
up with some two part thing. He goes, uh, and
he says, you play, I go it's just the two thing.
I thought. I was like, wow, he likes my part. Wow. Yeah,
And so we did. I mean, I was set up
in the south stage for two weeks with Paul and Linda,
and I was on the same stand with Linda, and
when we got there, we were told whatever you do,
don't talk about the Beatles, don't play any Beatles songs,
(16:38):
don't you And we're like, what, we're here with George Martin,
Jeff Emrick, Paul McCartney and set up live and we
can't talk about the Beatles or a rip into a
song of the Beatles. This is terrible. So I ended up,
you know, I didn't see anything because you just don't.
We were two weeks there to do one song, you know,
(16:59):
and we had already gone in and cut it the
first day with George Martin and you know the band.
We nailed the part just in case, and uh, you know,
so anyway, but it was wonderful to be set up.
And I said this to Linda. I said, yeah, after
we became a little bit more friendly and she was
just great to me. I said, yeah, man, you know,
I I don't know what to do. I said, we're
not allowed to, like ask Paul about the Beatles or
(17:19):
playing anything. I go. I feel, you know, it's like
one of my all time I mean, this is a
really terrible thing to do. And I was like, you know,
you're in the room with your all time here and
you can't even talking about it. And she goes, who
the hell told you that? I go, well, the management
whoever said that? We're She goes, that's bollocks, and I
go really, She goes, yeah, I play something. So I
played Please Please Me. I started going to that, and
(17:39):
Jeff looked at me like, are you out of your
fucking mind? And then I started playing, and then he
started saying it, and then Jeff started playing it, and
then we all started playing in their room stopped, you know,
and at the end of it, the whole place went berserk.
And then Paul goes, oh, yes, so let me start
stelling the stories. And the floodgates were open, and we
had lunch every day and as I will, I was
(18:00):
able to pick the brain of George Barton, Jeff Emrick,
and Paul and we just had a blast. Amazing. I'm
glad that you were able to tell Linda that that
was what you were told. And yeah. Another thing about
I mean, you know, she got such a bad rep
for reasons I will never understand. This is one of
the coolest people I've ever met. And she's going to
me and she goes, look, every hates me because I'm
in Paul's She goes, he wants me in the band. Yeah,
(18:21):
I'm going and I'm not talking for Paul. I couldn't
do that. But she said that to me, and I
laughed at when really, I go, you know, girl, you're
the coolest person ever. I go, I don't understand anybody
could say anything about you. Well, they don't know me,
you know, Yeah, I've heard. She's just amazing. Oh. She
was a warm to everybody. She would come up to
people in the crew, the lighting guy, the rigger and
talk to him about whatever was going on. And she
(18:44):
did mean that. She like the kids were all young then, yeah,
and there was no she was hands on. There was
no like you know, nanny's and stuff. John was the
only guy hanging out and he was cool. And but
she goes later look after the kids for a little bit,
you know, while I go off and do the meeting
with Paul, and like, you're leaving me with your children.
I go, me, I'm like the youngest kid here right now.
(19:07):
And she was, you can handle it, and I go.
It was only like for like fifteen minutes or anything.
It wasn't like any big deal. But I was so nervous,
you know, and the kids were great, so it wasn't
like I had to do anything. I was just going, hey,
you guys, gotta be cool. I'm supposed to look after
you would remember any of this, but I remember because
it was like if I blow this, I'm really and
Ship's creek, you know. But it was very cool. It
(19:28):
was great. She just try and that she said, like
you know, autographed like you know, photo books, and would
explain things. It was just what over the top nights, man,
I've heard that was the best. He was the greatest.
I'm not telling you anything, you do know. And we
had a blast and then I didn't see him again
until we did that, you know, the fiftieth anniversary, which
I'm sure it was as much of a trip for
(19:49):
you as it was for me. What killed me was
like waiting backstage to go on to play the gig
and then showing them showing hard days night and I
remember log in my grandmother like a thousand times to
take me to see this movie. Yeah I think you know,
nobody else wanted to see it anymore, but I had
to see this thing as many times as possible. Yeah. Yeah,
And when she went out and bought me my beetle boots,
(20:11):
even though my parents thought my feet would grow into
a or something like that, you know what I mean,
you know, and I'm like this. My grandma was the coolest,
you know, So all these memories hit me. Yeah, did
you have a Beatle wig? No, we did. I didn't
have a Beatle I had a new stepfather in the
family and he was, you know, sort of courting the kids,
the four of us. The Beatles had just come out,
(20:32):
and he brought us all beatle wigs well, which I
really appreciate. But like you, I was in the middle
of the living room, cross legged waiting for the Beatles
to come on because we'd heard like one single on
the radio. And what the hell is this? It was
like the parting of the season. It was like aliens
landed and gave us the secrets, you know what I mean.
(20:53):
And this music still holds up to me. Yeah, and
the records do too, and they never retired from me.
And you know it's funny, you know it is, you know,
really it was. It's eight years of my life. When
you think of what they did in eight years. Yeah,
from I Love Me Do to Abbey Road, the Growth. Yeah,
(21:14):
and you know, it's still the gold standard. Whenever you
were in the studio making a record. You and you
can when you're kind of a beadily thing. Everybody knows
what that is. Yea. And I say to Ringo, who
really pisses me off of people give ship about his drumming? Yeah,
I go, okay, first off, how many drummers you know?
If you just play the drum track, you know what
(21:34):
song it is. That's right. There was no click tracks
on those gigs and they had to play Now. Is
he Billy cobbam? No, But you're not looking him to
be you don't want him to be. Yeah. And you know, remarkable.
He's one of the most amazing people I've ever known.
And we've been palaced for like eight years now. Amazing, man.
(21:54):
I told me had to kill me to get rid
of me. You man, I can see you guys are
hanging out. We've been around each other a lot over
the years. Ringo with you and be with Paul and
I think starting with that fiftieth anniversary Ed Sullivan and
just watching him with he gravitates to you all the time. Well,
(22:15):
you know, we just hit it off. You know, if
his name was Bob Smith, he would be my pal.
This is the coolest guy I've ever met. Yeah, he
is a you know, I'm very grateful and fortunate that
you know, he took a shine to me and and
we're buds. We hang out all the time. Yeah, and
you know, I just a door m as a human being.
What was your first meeting with Ringo? Like, what were you? Well?
I had servius and anxious about it. I really wanted
(22:36):
the gig because I knew I could make. First off,
I knew I could make the band. I was going
to give everything I had to make this a great band.
I wanted to make you know. I got the call
from Mark Rivera and I said, look, man, I'm gonna
I really want to get in here and kick ass thing. Man.
I want to do a great job for the band
and make sure everybody's working his hard on everybody else's
songs as their own, because apparently I heard stories that
(23:00):
nobody guys in the band would only give a shit
about their songs and they'd scuffle through everybody else's tunes. Yeah,
that's not a band, wouldn't do that. That's part of
the gag. Yeah, it's an all star bands. You know,
with our experience in the studios and all this stuff,
I mean I was doing this ship. Every day. You
showed up and you gave everything you had to whatever
(23:20):
piece of music was laying on to you exactly. And
if I thought that these are important parts, I'd learned
the parts off the record and go play it like
this is It's right. Those are the hooks. Yeah, that's
what the people want to hear when they hear these songs.
You know what. I'm sitting playing Santanna songs Greg Rawley
and was like, you know, and he's killing it, like
that's that he hasn't lost the lick. Man. He sounds great,
his voice is playing. I mean, he's incredibly because it's
(23:42):
one of the nicest cats on planet Earth. Yeah, it
was great seeing you there at the Greek Theater and
hanging out with you before the show. But I was
I was really struck with that that that band cared
about every single song that was being played. When I
get to play bass on the on the Hamish's Back
Hamish Stewart, so I get to play bas based on
some of the you know, and how great as that?
And I loved it because I love to play bass. Yeah,
(24:04):
like that guitar bassement. Yeah, you know, look at what
you did. All of a sudden, you get the gig
and like, you've got to be a bass player too,
and you've got to be a bass player. With Paul
McCartney looking at you, it's like, that's right, it's a
little like okay, Well basically I didn't look up for
the first six months. I mean it's like I looked
out on the side of my eye and there's Paul
McCartney with the footlights on. It looks like Chase Stadium,
(24:25):
and I'm going like, oh shit, I gotta really do
this right, So great? How you got the gig? Though? Yeah,
you know your buddy Rusty, right, so come on. Actually
it was Abe. It was you know, Rusty and a
We're both friends of mine, but they didn't know each
other yet really played with each of them. Like I've
been touring with Abe in France, with Milan Farmer and
(24:49):
right and with Rusty. He was a neighbor of mine
and he was just like a guitar bud and we
trade gear and share on each other's demos and do
that stuff that we do as good A sweet kid, great,
great guy. But the call came because Abe had gotten
the call to do that album and he was at
a dinner that I was having and I said, well,
(25:09):
so Abe, like, who's gonna play bass when Paul plays
guitar and piano And who's gonna play guitar when he
plays bass? Who's gonna do that? He goes, well, actually, yeah,
we're looking for a guitar player who plays a bit
of bass. And I put my hand up. I said, man,
I'd love a shot at that. And that's how I
love the way you play bass in the bands because
you played bass. See a lot of guys like us,
(25:32):
like if you give a guitar player of bass and
he starts playing, act like you have to hold those
whole notes that that one has to be full value
on the cordon note exactly. You know what I mean.
It's a different pot if you got a different mindset
I used. I love playing bass. I play based on
my own records. Ship Yeah, I played bassed on total
records anybody? Yeah, And didn't you play Did you play
(25:55):
some bass on some early sessions as well? Did might
play bass on beating? That was gonna say because of
the way the record went down. I mean I wasn't like,
you know, I played bass on a few things. I mean,
I played bass on my son on the song I
wrote with Foster for and Fee for talk to you
later from the twos because the Basic Play refused to
play on it because because yeah that guys, what do
(26:16):
you mean? A mean for? I didn't try to steal
your gig? Have you we done sessions? Were the guy
in the band that you're replacing is in the room? Yes,
I have sucked with Shakira. It sucked and I'm not
going to name names, but man, it was really really awkward. Yeah,
I mean there to replace the guitar parts that he'd
already played. Yeah, that was a co writer. Yeah, it
(26:38):
was a little bit brutal, but anyway, it was I've
had that wonderful experience. I'm going, why don't you play this? Like,
come on, what am I doing? And I'm going to
the person, what the funk? Would you invite this guy here? Ye? Right?
You know what I mean? But you just mentioned, um,
Michael Jackson. So you were first meeting with him, did
did you? Did I understand that you've got a phone call,
(26:59):
you know, o'clock in the morning, like a nineteen eighty one,
and you know what was up in nineteen eighty one.
I get this call at eight in the morning. Hi,
this is Mic I'm gonna fuck you. I don't have
the phone. A few minutes later, the same phone call. No, really,
it's to me. I'm going, okay, man, what moron calls?
He was just at the eight o'clock in the morning
at nineteen eighty what's up? Where are we? I just
(27:20):
went to sleep? Man, the funk is this? It's Mike,
I'm gonna funk off. Which one are my knucklet of friends?
As boom nobody calls. About ten o'clock that morning, I
got a call from Quincy's office from Joanne, who would
normally call. Then I get a call from you. You know,
that was really Michael. He should call him back, and
I went, oh, So I called him back and I said, hey,
(27:41):
I am any answers, I get the bad phone any
answers and I go Michael Steve Luca and he's just laughing.
I go, man, I'm so sorry. You know, I thought
it was a gag. He goes, Oh, it happens all
the time. Yeah. I had the same experience with Paul
that we had just done our first which I guess
was my audition, which was one song for this Super
Bowl in two thousand two, like before the national anthem,
(28:04):
oh create your first show is a billion people will see,
no pressure at all, nothing right. And at the end
of that gig, which is New Orleans, just one song,
he gives me a hug and says, Okay, well, i'll
see you back in l a Man in five weeks.
We're gonna start rehearsing and went what He goes, Yeah,
welcome aboard, stick with aban Rusty to show you the ropes.
(28:26):
And that was it. So I go back home, like
set up a guitar, bass and acoustic, a mike, big
old stack of CDs, remember those CDs and uh, And
I'm rolling through everything he's ever recorded, beatles, solo, wings
and everything. And I get a call one day, he goes,
and I picked up, going hello, Hi, Brian, it's Paul,
(28:49):
and I go Paul who Yeah, And he goes, you
know Paul the bass player, and go Paul, who goes
Paul McCartney And I go, no, it hasn't He goes, Brian.
Is Paul called, I got no way? And he laughed,
so he laughed so hard that he had to hold
the phone far away and just like Michael for you,
(29:09):
he said, it happens all the time to him. Yeah,
so I think they just like to funk with us. Yeah, basically, yeah,
for sure. No, when you asked me about the first
time I met Ringo, I really wanted the gig, you know,
I told Keltner and and like Greg Biscinetta is the guy,
You're perfect for this band. And he brought Dave Hart,
whose Ringo's agent and producer of the shows, to see
(29:30):
us play tot I was playing and they were on
the road in Europe and we were playing, and that's
the arena there, and he brought Dave Hart to see
me play, and Dave really dug it and he chooses,
so he put me up for the gig. And the
idea of Ringo has to approve everybody, so like he
listened to music and said either yes or no. And
I called Keltner and I said, Jim, call him and
(29:52):
tell him I really want this gig. Look me up,
you know, put in a high good word for me,
because I just wanted to do a season and say
that I did it. Yeah, and it worked out great,
you know, and then you know, so I got the gig,
but I couldn't tell anybody, but and I think at
that time we had just had lunch. You called me
and so let's hang out. And we met somewhere and
I started playing Bringer, and you looked at me like
(30:13):
and Willie looked at me in the same way. When
I said, I said, I said, what is what? The look?
He goes, well, man, you know he's great. He's had
some interesting bands that didn't Gael really well, you know,
And I said, well, I'm gonna make that difference. And
Kelton I was like, going, you can go in and
make this better. I go. If I don't, then I sucked.
And not to say that there weren't great bands, because
there were, but there weren't bands that were cohesive on
(30:35):
a friend level, like on a hang level, which is
we both know it's pretty important when you got to
spend all that time on the Rico just wants to laugh.
He just wants to hang on. He doesn't need the money.
He wants to do the work, but he wants to
have a good time man because he doesn't need to
do it. Thinks that ring goes he's a band guy. Yeah,
he wants to play. He takes the music really seriously.
(30:57):
And I love him for that. Yeah, and you know, oh,
it's it's all about that to him, you know, and
you take you know, like rehearsals are important, going to myself,
I'm going to we really need to rehears He likes
to feel better about really having it together. So what
was your first meeting with him? Like, well, I came
off of I just got into Canada and it was
a late flight, so I got in late and it
(31:20):
was about I don't know, nine thirty at night and
I got off before and he was waiting for me,
and he opened up the door and he came out
and he gave me a big hug. He says, welcome onboard.
He goes, not get some rest, were starting early. I said, yes, sir,
But he gave me a really warm hug, and I said,
I'm gonna fucking make this. I'm gonna give this everything
I got. Like what's smoking, drinking and doing the fucking
(31:52):
illegal ship you know over ten years ago. You know,
you and I come from a time in the seventies
and eighties when we were coming up in business. Well
asleep when I'm dead years Yeah, when it's what you did,
I wish I could get that back. But how stupid
was that? Yeah, I don't miss any of that ship.
And you know, I woke up one day and I
said this is it, and I never I quit smoking
(32:13):
and drinking. Every same thing never looked back as funny
as it. Stopping smoking is what led me to stop
drinking and using too. Yeah, they all go together. Yeah,
they do take one out of the equation. It's all wrong. Yes,
it's like it's like doing a bump with one side
and not getting the other. That's right. Yeah. Well, I'm
glad that you ended up changed. I mean I had
(32:34):
well listen, I'm really ashamed. I mean I went through
a period of time where almost destroyed my career because
I would suck. I was so miserable doing what I
was doing and I didn't care. And what an awful
thing to all of a sudden not care interesting, And
people were beating up on me and they should have. Ye.
I was squandering a great career and I was blowing it.
I was ashamed of myself, and I spent ten years
(32:56):
trying to get that back and apologizing and admitting it.
And I look that I it got the best of me,
and it ruined my playing well what change? What did
you wake up one day just say that's sucking it? Well,
I mean, the depression was hitting and I realized I
hit a wall. I felt like Ship all the time.
I started day drinking. I started doing all this ship
you weren't supposed to do. I couldn't even look at
myself in the mirror when I was brushing my teeth.
(33:18):
It was that bad. I was puffy and red. I
looked like Ship. I didn't. I was ashamed of myself,
but I kept You know, you just keep going so
you don't feel it, and then when you finally feel it,
it's brutal, you know. So I had a couple of
days of sweats and depression, and then you know, I
went through while of ship, you know. But you know
I never went back to, you know, wanting to have
(33:39):
a drink. I mean, I lost my days for it. Yeah,
and I just don't want any part of that life anymore,
you know. I mean not to the point where I
was a blithering idiot, you know what I mean. Occasionally
something comes up and the comments section is like, it's
a brutal boy. If you ever had an ego, you
can get rid of that real quick. Oh, Yeah, I
just stayed away from the comment section. I mean, I
(34:00):
was getting beat up to just you're not John Leonard
or something. You know absolutely and you don't get through
this life, in this career, of all these years that
you and I have done this without some embarrassing moments
on YouTube. So it's just like I stayed the hell
away from the comments sections. But I think it's it's
just toxic. Let's talk about the earlier years of your
session work and and and songwriting collaborations. Run us to
(34:24):
a couple of guitar solos that you would deem your
favorites that I don't know out there, that you're responsible
for some of the most killer guitar solos in popping
realm and history. Come on, brother, come on, we're talking
about Running with the Night by Lionel. Richie was it?
I wouldn't even try And I was going, what keys
(34:46):
is in? I had my last ball out and fifty
nine plugging crank and he goes, well, obviously this was
the time right after beat It. So it's like, oh,
rock solos R and B are gonna be cool. Yeah,
So I've been working with Richie and I love rich
She was great. He goes, I got the song run
with the Night, and I want you to play all
over it, and I go, okay, well what he's let
me figure it out. So I just play all over it.
(35:06):
Just I'm warming up doing my thing. I'm I'm picking
the spots that are rather obvious, and I'm playing and
they're digging it. And at the end of it, I go, great,
let's make one. Let's do it. I think I got
a handle. He goes, you just did. What do you mean?
I don't even know the song, goes It's great, You're done.
I was out. That's the thing to me. I played
too much on the record. They used it all, but
that was a long time ago that so I cracked
(35:28):
up on That was like a negative session. I didn't
even get one take. I didn't even know we were
keeping it. And I used to get I used to
be pretty good at getting it quick because you didn't
have a lot of tracks. Yeah, something's got by. They
were a little likely. That was a little wonder That
was a little dodging. I wish I could do that again.
But at the same time, that was the ship was happening.
Man with the part of the style of the times,
Man you kid. I got in there and did what
(35:49):
I had to do because I had to. That was
the gig where you gotta be tan guitar players. That
was what I found the best challenge because I get
to be everybody's guitar players. So I was really careful
about getting the right sound, playing the right parts. Rocky,
you know, play this iconic part of the Santana, So
I can you not play this George Harrison solo with
the right sound and usual leslie on this And I
tried to give it my all to everyone. Todd needs this,
(36:11):
I'm gonna play this or whoever needs one. I'm into it,
you know what I mean. That's as a session guy.
That was just normal behavior for me. Yeah. So and
you know that you get and then you do the job,
and of course you learn the parts on the record.
Are you gonna come up with a better base play
at the Palm card? Exactly right? And am I gonna
put them up with a better soulo than the one
that's on? You know? George Harrison played on it Don't
(36:33):
come easy again? Simple, but it's classic. Yeah, it's classic.
I want to talk about Africa a little bit. When
it came time for where were you when you heard
the Weezer version of it? So we said, was that
something that was just like out of the blue or no?
They said they sent this, uh Rosanna first, that's pretty interesting, okay,
(36:53):
And you know, I don't understand why they were doing it.
You know, I think, as I come to find out,
there was a girl, sweet girl, fifteen year old girl
from back east who you know, she was heard our
song on Stranger Things, believe it or not, and for
a year was bugging Rivers come out if I could
cut the tracks. Apparently they do old songs in the
(37:15):
seventies and eighties and do some covers. But the first
I think, yeah, well they did Rosanna, we got that,
and we were like, okay, well nice trying their guys.
And then they did um Africa, and really they did.
They tried to do pretty much the same arrangement. They
just put the crunchy guitars in the solo and Rivers
did all the harmonies. Yeah, I thought, he man, why not?
(37:37):
The group was a little funny to me because of
the way we made the record was Jeff and and
Lenny and the Paul of the loops and stuff. It
was these guys are more approaching it like a rock band. Yeah,
and you know, hey, they did a good job. It
was a hit. Let's hit you with a couple of
quick ones. This is a section of the show we
want to call the encore. We know that the non
(37:57):
glamorous side of what we do is the travel. What's
the craziest travel story that's happened to you? I think
getting to South Africa from l A was pretty rough.
That was a thirty hour uh, you know, door to door.
I think I donated my underwear to science at that point. Man, o, God,
you did not. No, I'm just kidding, you know, that
(38:19):
was rough. It's just a waiting around. Man, It's the
cancel flights. It's the getting in after an all night
or you know, even when you were fortunate enough to
do like what we get to do with with the guys,
which is traveling really well, you're still it's still you know,
you get there three in the morning, you get there,
it's interrupted sleep, it's you know, even the best to travel.
(38:40):
It's you know, we've been doing this with my whole life.
You've been doing your whole same Yeah, we'll tell me this.
What's the most embarrassing thing that happened to you on stage?
And how did you get through it? Food poisoning? Oh
my god, me too? So do you win? Did the
show anyway? One of those like jazz Fusion gigs were
(39:00):
doing fourteen in a row. I couldn't afford to blow
one out, Lord almighty, you know, so you have to
work a lot to make the money. And uh, I
was on stage and like, you know, yeah, you know,
I could have fucking crushed the walnut between my butt cheeks. Man,
you know, I couldn't turn a piece of coal into
a diamond, you know, And uh, you know I had
like yell, drum solo at a very opportune moment and
(39:22):
run down the stairs. And there's nothing like that feeling
of sitting on the commode having fucking mount Vesuvia's coming
out of your ainus while the band is still playing
and you're going like okay, man, you know, and then
you realize that like it's really bad, and like you know,
and you gotta fucking get through this again. You get
up there and everybody a plauds, and you get through
(39:44):
and you got that weird sweat, you know what I mean.
It's like you're going every song is like thirty minutes long,
and you're like, God, I'm gonna get out of this,
you know. Oh man, you know, so that's a bad one,
embarrassing things, and I say, just forgetting ship and just
being an idiot. But hey, we all do that, okay.
Is there anyone that you've played with, our met backstage
(40:05):
that you've been completely starstruck by? Well, you know, the
same people by you um over the years. When I
first met them, people like Jeff Beck and obviously Paul,
George and Ringo. You know, when I first met George,
that was a trip. I was at the nightclub, believe
it or not, right right after Jeff died and we
were going to do a gig at the Amphitheaters as
(40:27):
a tribute to him. And you know, George came and
played with us. I met him that night and we
hit it up. I just want to say thank you
for my entire career, and he says, sit on for
a second. I started making him laughing the next night.
We were really good friends until he got stabbed and
then he lost touch with everybody. And then I would
get a message through Keltner somebody saying George said I
(40:47):
he would call me. I wish I could had kept
some of the great outc Hey, it's a new good buddy,
George fancy Meal, you know. I remember driving him, me
and Keltner. I was working on my second solo record
back at ninety three, and he he goes, so come
on's go have dinner. Keltoner's coming and Jim knew I
was walking. Let's stop by the studio and think what
you're doing. We were working on it. So I drove
(41:10):
him into Capitol right after the Blue and the Red
album Best of Beatles or whatever they call. Hilume wanted
to the Blue one and the well they had the
mega life size, like as high as the Capitol building,
the size of four Beatles backstay and I drive into
the lot and he goes, bloody hell, and he's like
(41:31):
it's massive. And I and I walk into Capitol, you know,
the security with George Harrison and and they're looking at
me and looking at him. I go, I bet you
don't need to see his I d do you? Uh?
And they just let us in and they hung out
for a while. But we hung out a bunch. I
heard free as a bird before everybody took me up
to his place, he was staying at the bell everyone
(41:53):
untel with with Olivia, who's awesome, and um, he played
that for me and you know, he came in jam
with us and he just became a great pound and
then he and I never got to say goodbye. That's
so sad. Well, so tell me the last question. What
are you listening to right now that you're excited about? Yeah,
I'm not just saying this because he's my kid. He's
(42:14):
in a band microcos someplace based from one direction as
a killer drummer, and they found the singer that's just insane, Josh,
and they just made a record that's just ridiculous. They
may say rock and roll, for it's it's like if
you can imagine a young def Leppard? Is that right?
With the song quality of hooks? And my son plays
guitar not but weirdly got at all. He's never that.
(42:36):
I said, I'll get a bolt gutter if I see
it with that, I go, that's so over there. Go
be a songwriter, be fine. Parts got a great feel,
and he went for that. He and he wrote some
great ship and now he's sitting there waiting for it
to come out and go. I'm like, oh, my god,
what's the band name? Z f G zero Fox Giving.
I like it and you know it's and it's a
(42:57):
big deal that's coming out. Man, I'm really proud of it's.
It's not just good for It's like, holy fuck, this
is great. Fuck you, this is too good, you know.
And he's cracking up. But he's been twenty twenty year
overnight success, you know. I mean, he's been working really hard.
I wish I could tell you I helped him. I
helped him with a few things, introducing the right people,
but everything he did he did on his own. Amazing. Yeah,
(43:19):
he's a good kid. He's a great kid. Hen he
skipped over all the awful ship that I did. He
actually listened to me. Well, thank you so much man
for s this is a blast. I'd like to thank
(43:43):
everyone for listening, and thank you to Steve for having
us sober to his beautiful home and spending so much
time sharing his incredible stories. Be sure to watch for
Steve's new music on his website Steve lucathur dot com
on tour. As a production of I Heart Radio and
Black Barrel Media, this show is produced by Mandy Wimmer,
with executive producer Noel Brown and I'm your Host Brian Ray.
(44:07):
For more information about on Tour, visit our website black
Barrel Media dot com for behind the scenes photos from
these interviews and interact with us. Visit our social media
at on Tour pod on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. For
more shows from My Heart Radio and Black Barrel Media.
Just at the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or
(44:28):
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