Joe Reitman

Stephen Baldwin sits down with actor and producer Joseph Reitman (Lady In The Water, The Perfect Storm, Bandidas) to talk about the bad movies that shaped his career in unexpected ways. From box office bombs to behind-the-scenes chaos, Reitman shares wild stories of working with Hollywood’s biggest names.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to One Bad Movie. Today.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
We're excited to have actor Joseph Rightman, but as we
continue reading what you've written, I.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Might have to critique it a little bit. Right sure.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Known for his work in films like Lady in the Water,
where he had a memorable role. So do we want
to say about Joe like he was in Lady I'd
be worried already right there, you know, as well as
Clerks too and The Perfect Man. Joseph has a diverse

(00:32):
career spanning film, TV and even voice work, and will
be diving into his experiences, including his time on the
set of Lady in the Water.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
You take that last line, this.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
Is how I would have done it, and I'm not
the actor. Please help me, all right, please welcome back
to One Bad Movie. All right, So today we have
a good episode, well known character actor named Joseph Rightman.
You may not know his name, but you'll definitely recognize
his face from movies like Lady in the Water, Clerks
to The Perfect Man, shows like Charmed. Just very well

(01:03):
known working actor. He had a little run on a
Disney Plus show recently, So may not know the name,
but you'll definitely recognize the face.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
Acting coach, and we talked about you don't mention that
in this little writer, but this is what you're for. Yeah,
that's meaningful, of course, And.

Speaker 3 (01:18):
You guys definitely talked about that a lot in the episode.
I thought that was some of the best part of
the conversation.

Speaker 2 (01:22):
I told Joe that it was the first time I
had ever heard about what do you call that? A
zoom audition? Remember, I never heard about the young people
today and Hollywood doing zoom auditions.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
And we do, and we actually do a lot of
zoom audition references throughout One Bad Movie because that's a
that's an ongoing theme. And we definitely dive into him
working with m Night Shamalan. Remember the water, Yeah it
was that was a great episode he had. He has
a lot of good stories.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
So we got that comment.

Speaker 3 (01:53):
Yes, that is on this episode of One Bad Movie,
creating doll bad lips.

Speaker 4 (02:06):
It's so bad, it's good. It's guilty manness, this sun this,
it's so bad, it's good.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
One Bad Airplane. I'll have no phone, airplane amazing airplane mode,
airplane mode. That's my goal, no phone, cell phone. I
want to live somewhere when they just have a landline. Yeah,
and then just go, hey, man, tell Joe rightman, I'll

(02:38):
talk to him Tuesday at three.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Cool, move on, No, But I just mean scheduling in life. Yeah,
imagine mentioned you imagine if you scheduled your existence are
you recording We're good? Imagine if you scheduled your existence
so that you only talk to people on a real
old phone reverse engineer that from right now you just

(03:02):
put your cell phone down.

Speaker 1 (03:04):
All that you do with that, you wouldn't do anymore. True.
You would have a laptop. Let's say you were in
the woods in a log cabin that had an ISDN line,
high speed fiber whatever, but you wouldn't have to hold
a cell phone. You could click your fingers onto the

(03:25):
so the radiation of all that would no longer be
connected to you. See, that's what I'm going to do
in the future. It's not a grounding thing, if you
know what that is. I understand, right sure, but I
I it creeps Jared and John out that I never

(03:46):
hold the phone. If I talk to you right now
like this, then I turn it on, I click it,
and I'll start doing it. But now I'm not holding
it and going like yeah, yeah, because the matrix. It's bad.
The hold cell.

Speaker 3 (04:04):
Phone, Steven, You'm gonna take that?

Speaker 1 (04:07):
Take what the board?

Speaker 3 (04:08):
The board, the beating up, the beating up board.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, we need a new one on one. That's one
bad one bad board. Clac stick what every what do
you call it? Clapstick clacker, clapboard, clapboard slate? What were
we talking about?

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Let's adjust your mike, Stephen, just got to get closer.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Why it's Joe and I can be cool with Joe. Yeah.
I don't have to be so official, but just just
Jared likes my voice.

Speaker 3 (04:34):
That's what you want to hear this. It is a podcast.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
I might break into an Alec impersonation, and when I
do that, I gotta have the mic very close.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
I bet you do a good app. You have no idea.
I'm sure you do a good out. I do Alec
from way back baby, yeah wave, Well, yeah, I dated
a few of his ex girlfriends. You know what I mean?
Did you really? I didn't know. I didn't know that. Well,
come on, bro, makes sense, I get it. I'm I'm
nine years younger than him. Sure, you know when I

(05:02):
came out of the American Academy of Dramatic Arts and
I was working at Mama's Pizza, which is at the
same time I met my wife. So prior to meeting
my wife, right who I married in nineteen ninety were
still married amazing, So you can imagine when I was
in that waiter period before becoming a professional actor, that

(05:28):
my brother, who at the time was already kind of cruising,
you know, he already done knots landing, things like that,
you know, which back then was not slanding was pretty big. Yeah,
So he would, you know, have friends that he dated,
and then he no longer dated.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
So once in a while I'd be at the old
you know, Irish pub and bump into so and so
who knew one of my brothers.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, is his cup run over? And there you go.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
And I would simply say to that gal, he's a prick.
We all know he's a prick. His drink it was.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
It's awful, Joe, it's terrible scenarios to be and all right, well,
I was, you know, a bit of a comforter because
what they had to deal with was, you know, what's
your name, Susie, Hi, Susie alec nice to mean you,
you know, so there's this kind of have you seen
my shweaty balls. Well that's a character, that's something else.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
But Alec himself, Alex real sweaty balls is uh something
that requires a voice to do that in personal you're
not the right voice frequency to replicate the sweaty balls frequency.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
Sure, is what I'm saying. God, it's already, it's already
a great interview, bro saying, Okay, we got sweaty balls.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
You'll be putting in like pop up, so so so
much for why I needed to adjustment.

Speaker 1 (06:49):
Yeah, of course, sorry, Sorry, Joe. You're a serious guy,
and here you are. I'm not really that serious now,
not so much. But you've been in a lot of stuff, sure, yeah, no,
but yeah, cool stuff some yeah, some of it was
some cool. Yeah yeah yeah but back in the day. Yeah,
but I think your coolest stuff was back in the day.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
Sure, but I think, like many brilliant Thespians like myself,
you gravitated away from what seemed to be like a
studio system norm and did your own thing.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
I mean, I've constantly tried to just do whatever felt
right in general, but like and then occasionally you have
to pay the bills. So like there's a weird mix
of times that you kind of like have to succumb
to doing work that you're not necessarily believing in, you know,
So there's stuff to pay the bills, right, and then
there's stuff that's thus one bad movie, thus many bad movie. Correct.

(07:49):
It's one of those. Well, I've noticed in my filmography
that the higher up that I am on the call sheet,
the closer I get to one, the lower the ratings
for the film are. The more the more bad review
there are. So like I'm if I'm like at number
twenty on the call sheet, it usually is a pretty
good movie. If I'm number one, it's a piece of craps.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
In future one bed movie episodes, that's a bit we
have to do some kind of a call sheet scale.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, the higher up that I am in the call sheet,
the worst your movie is all the time. There's got
to be a cross pollenization of that, like there is
if we could actually get call sheets from bad movies
and then see who.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
The actors and figure out where their position. Oh my god,
that's fascinating. See I'm already curious about the numerology of that.

Speaker 1 (08:34):
It's frustrating, it really is. Well, like the Goofy tragedy
is if you love acting, right, if you're good at
it, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
Like I tell people, the Baldwin Brothers four guys. You know,
the four of us have done more films than any
siblings ever.

Speaker 1 (08:48):
It's just because there's four of us. But it just
trips me out because the game has changed some of
the folks that we talked to earlier. I switched up
on you stay with me because Sam, it works in
the edit. Okay, I'm staying with you, just.

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Just like my performances. Sure it works in the edit, Joe.
But I'm just saying all that because I don't want to.
I don't want to forget in this conversation that we're
going to cover all that other stuff. Like you're sure
we'll play and talk about it, but I don't want
to forget that in the where you're at now and
in the where I'm at now, it seems to be
a cool retro.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
Trend that folks who have been around for a while,
who are serious about loving film and acting in theater
or you know, just doing quality stuff that when you
watch it, people go, wow, right, that thing is eroding.

(09:42):
It's always has always has been, you know, as you
get in this game.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
As you get in the business. I mean, you and
I can sit here and talk about your next project. Sure,
stay with me. But at the same time, if either
one of us got offered, you know, even being a
supporting guy with multiple opportunities and some Marble Universe, did
I say Marble Marble?

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Did I said Marble Universe?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
The Marble Universe shows you how I shows you how
bad I want to be in the Marvel Universe.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Okay, okay, and look, I've I've done a couple of
jobs in that universe. But you sit there and you
and all you can think to yourself is like, if
I just got like one decent break in this world,
you know, you freaking change everything. You know. I always
feel that way about my career. I feel like I
do a lot of work where I'm trying to pay
the bills or whatever happens, or I'm trying to be creative,

(10:29):
and you always feel like you're just one job away
from like everything changing again.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
But for you, if the potential for the one bigger
gig came along and it just was something you just
didn't vibe with, would you do it?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
Yeah? What do we?

Speaker 4 (10:46):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (10:48):
It's official. Joe Wrightman is our first one bad actor.
Oh god, if I was given an opportunity to horrmi again. Sure, wow,
I appreciate your honest. I feel like we're in an
AA meeting now. Yeah, it's fantastic. Yeah, he was just
so rigorously honest. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Please bring please bring in mister Ragmens mancha latte. Please
my two fisted My goodness, it took forever. Did you
take my bike? What retro And now for this promotional
moment from Steve Baldwin about retrospect e bikes. Just I'm kidding,

(11:29):
but if retrospect can send me like some free fricking tires,
I appreciate it. Sorry, Joe Tug gotta plug when you
can plug, I get you.

Speaker 1 (11:42):
Sorry, Thanks for being here, Joe, Thank you for having me.
Where was I.

Speaker 3 (11:49):
You're about to ask him what his one bad movie is.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
No, I'm not going to ask him that yet.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I want to hear from this guy, Okay, who's like
boots on the ground in Hollywood, teaching young people about
the craft right and at the same time, the biggest
hit movie ever was Barbie. Now, Joe and I already
know Joe's like mcgalliard, He's going to debate me on Barbie.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
Am I did you hate it? Yes? Ah, I love you.
I hated. I hated. I think I think Ryan did
a very good job. You know. I thought his performance
was good. I think the sets and the costumes were

(12:34):
done very well. Right, I can't really deny that, you know,
But I think the message was horrible in garbage. That's
what I felt like the message. Okay, well, I think
less less, less, less more about it. I hate it.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
Oppenheimer, Well, we'll talk about that's another conversation. Wow, yeah,
see my guys. Yeah, yeah, I like that.

Speaker 1 (12:58):
I did. He's the youngest Baldwin.

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Obviously, he's the most like you know, wow, Okay, something's
wrong with him.

Speaker 1 (13:05):
But I'll talk about Oppenheimer's sap separate.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Barbie to me, quite simply is just that event movie commercialization.

Speaker 1 (13:14):
Thing, but about something.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
It's about taking an American a doll and then morphing
in morphing it into this thing.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
That's so bad story wise. It's such a forced, you know,
marketing machine. It's so zombie America that people are just
going pink, I see pink. They're not even watching a movie.
They're just they're blinded by pink. But here's the thing.
I think Greta is a very good filmmaker. She's a

(13:44):
very smart woman. She knows what she's doing. So my
problem is is that the message that she tried to
put out there with that movie upset me. So is
she that smart if that's what she tried to do?
So hold on. You can take your hollywood nessnessness, your

(14:05):
great director talent and get inside a movie studio that
they're going to spend tens of mirions. You got the cast,
you got all the power. If you're Greta coming into
this opportunity and forget see for me, I'm not I
don't want to debate the story thing and the outcome
of that. That's your interest, okay. My interest is if

(14:28):
you're all we're taught, if you're this woman that talented.
I watched interviews after I didn't see the film, but
I watched her go well, this is an important timely
moment in the history of women and power. And I'm
sitting there going and you took all of that stuff
and wrapped it up into a fantasy movie for little
kids and totally manipulated your audience. That's how I see Barbie.

(14:55):
I see this like Oppenheimer a marketing manipulation, but it's
a hy the Hollywood lead to be fair, it worked,
of course, right to be fair, of course, so like
we could argue that point. But the thing is she
was extremely successful if that was her goal, extremely.

Speaker 2 (15:11):
Successful and in the working that means the success. So
now my question, Joe Ryman, is is the success and
it's working, what's good for the industry?

Speaker 1 (15:30):
I feel that it's like the issue is this is
like if she is this woman who created this film
and made this, she now can make any movie she
wants in her life, right, correct, so that she doesn't
have to do another movie. That's like, and the gal
that plays the lead, Margot Robbie, you know how much
she made a lot seventy million on the back end,

(15:51):
not her feet. Yeah, I understanding. Yeah, So here's my
other beef. I'm the new guy coming back to Hollywood,
going guy. Look if the game now is that kind
of money, God bless Margot Robbie.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Margaret Robbie does not deserve seventy million dollars on the
back end. She has not been in the business long enough.
She's not Meryl Streep. When does Meryl Streep make seventy
million dollars in the back end. That's what I want
to know.

Speaker 1 (16:18):
Dog, what what? Hey, Steve, don't say that he kids,
sh don't piss on Hollywood, Steve. But you know what,
her negotiator. But she had a negotiation. She had a
good piece of the back end, and she got what
she deserved because of her contract. Right. I mean, how
many contracts have you signed for bad movies where you

(16:38):
were guaranteed back end where you knew it wasn't gonna come.
Nobody knows that better than the youngest Baldwin. That's what
I'm telling you, of course. But my point, but what
if one of them became Sharknado and made like one
hundred million dollars? Would you deserve the money that day?
That's not the question I'm asked. That's not the question
I'm asked. I understand. But you're telling that she if

(16:58):
I become a billion in the future, yeah, I'm going
to do a Warren Buffett. I'm going to drive an
old car. Sure, I'm gonna not live beyond my means.
I don't think that superachts and all that stuff are
for me. I understand, that's just me I get it.
I think that you can't say yes in Hollywood and

(17:20):
make seventy million on the back end and there's sixty
thousand homeless on the streets of LA that you drive
by every day and do nothing to solve it. Well,
we don't know what she's going to do with that money, Okay,
But if I had seventy million on the back end,
I take half of it. I would take half of
seventy million dollars personally and give it to the city
of Los Angeles with the right plan to rescue homeless

(17:42):
people up the streets. And that's what I would do.
That's great, and I that's great and I and I
hope that you make your seventy million so you can
do that, because that's great. Yeah, think absolutely, you know,
but you heard it your first Poe. Yeah yeah. But
with that said, we don't know what she's going to
do with that money. I mean, she made that money,
and you just have to decide at that point. Hopefully
she'll do the right thing in some way, you know,

(18:03):
and give some of it back. But because I agree
with you, like, that's too much money for anybody anyway,
you know, it's too much money for anybody.

Speaker 5 (18:09):
Well, she'll net what it's fair, not even it's fair,
And I don't disrespect that.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
It's fair for Margot Robert to make that back in
in the system to which we exist, correct. I find
it ironic and hypocritical that that same system doesn't fix
its own city.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
Well as we both know, like the studios, it's the
Kodak theater. Yeah, but it doesn't fix anything. Yeah, but
the studio system which she's making that money from, has
no interest in doing good for the people. I mean,
you know as well as I do. Like they don't.
They don't look out for the people. They don't look
out for the actors, they don't look out for the people.
That's not what studios do. So it's not their job
to do that.

Speaker 5 (18:51):
If the city of question becomes yeah, well I have
a pipe in for a fact check because technically the
studio that made it is in the city of Burbank,
and we're doing great, so they.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Take they take care of that city.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
That's good for you. Good for you, Joy Burbank Jared
for Mayor of Burbank. Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
No, but I'm just I'm being a dick to make
a point which is with your point. I don't want
to work in that system anymore. As best I can,
I don't want to work in that system anymore.

Speaker 1 (19:24):
If they called me to do a Marvel movie tomorrow,
I'm not into it. I'd rather really, I'd rather do
really fetishish documentaries then be iron Man any day. That's
just me. Well, we have different priorities, but yeah, you'd
be iron Man. Oh my god, you would? Are you kidding? Oh? Wow?

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Joe share with him? The Batman's George.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
So I worked at this movie called The Perfect Storm
years ago, of course, and I worked with Clooney. I
love that, right, And I asked Mark Wahlberg, Yeah, And
I asked Clooney a few questions. One of the questions
I asked him while were on the boat is I said,
I said, I go, what made you decide to do Batman?
You know, because I'm like, hey, I figured he had
to have read the script, it had to have known

(20:11):
that it wasn't going to be the best Batman or
whatever the situation was. I go, what made you say
yes to Batman? And he took a second and he
looked at me, and he goes. I went to my
accountant and I said, if I do this movie, do
I ever have to work again? And his accountant said, now,
if you do this Batman film, you can do whatever
you want for the rest of your life. And he said,

(20:32):
then I'm going to do it, because then I can
choose whatever movie I want to make, I can choose things,
I can say no to whatever I want, I can
say no to the system, and I can absolutely have
control of my career for the first time in my life.
And I thought that was a great answer. You know,
to do one bad movie, you know, to be able
to do whatever you want for the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
If we keep peeling this on, and of course we
could peel it down to well, you know, could you
justify as an artist? Could I justify? That's seventy million
back ends your question. In other words, would I do
something that I don't agree with artistically in order to
have artistic freedom in the future?

Speaker 1 (21:11):
Forever? Forever? Are you iron Man? Once? It sounds to
me like the god of eaten Joe. If you ask
me just to eat from this tree, I wouldn't. I
would eat that apple and all hard what you're talking
about I want to talk about. Okay, the Mullet Talk

(21:38):
with the Mullets TV show The Mullets. Yes, okay, don't
ever tell me why you did that. Don't tell you
why I did the Bullets. Just tell me why you
like it, Why I like the Mullets. Yeah, okay. So
I'm kind of known for like doing unconventional things, I think,
for auditions, especially if I don't really like the material necessarily.

(22:04):
So I had called him from the Mullets, and The
Mullets was a show that I don't think anybody would
call us good. Uh, No, one like you know, anyone
ever saw an episode was like that was a horrible
idea for a TV show, and uh, but which is fine.
And what happened is that I got the audition to
play a character named Thrash, who was basically Slash from
Guns and Roses. And the lines in the script were

(22:26):
so bad that the jokes were so bad that I
decided instead of saying the lines, I would just mumble
the whole time and say so, I had a line
where I said, well, you know, it's better than I said,
better than being stuck on a television show blah blah blah,
and I don't even remember the line was instead of that,
I went, well, he's gone, there's a taxi cat confessions

(22:48):
literally nonsensical, nonsensical literally didn't say words except for the
last two words of every sentence they gave me, and
they used it and they thought it was It was
obviously funnier than anything on the page. So they just
hired me to actually not say the lines and then
improv whatever you want to. Yes, just mumble to myself
and then say two words and we laugh at my
joke with a mullet. Correct. And I didn't have a mullet.

(23:10):
I had my slash slash hair and a top hat.
I mean they addressed me like slash. The three guys
who were the lead. I needed to understand how you
were involved in anything called and to be honest, like
Lonnie Anderson was on the show, and I was in
love with her, like when I was a kid, so
like I would have done anything to be kind of
like be in her presence. Yeah, more than one day. Yeah,

(23:31):
I played her ex boyfriend. Yeah, you played Lannie Anderson's
ex boyfriend. She There were three guys in the show.
One was supposed to be Keith Richards and then me
and Tommy Lee. We were all like based on like
you know those characters and uh and we were all
supposedly guys. Are there any flashback scenes? Like? No, No.
They just talked about like how we used to hang
out and stuff and what we used to do. Was
she a doll? Uh? Yes? But married? Was she married? Yeah? Well,

(23:55):
we didn't talk about her marriage much. I just kind
of sat there and just giggled about being like Joe,
what's the matter with you get next to Lonnie Anderson?
You ask her if she's married. I was just so
happy to be in the present. I mean, I swear
to got like, you know, she was like a fantasy
girl of mine for like when I was twelve, Are
you kidding me? She was everything?

Speaker 3 (24:12):
Can we tell the listeners who are under fifty who
Lonnie Anderson is?

Speaker 1 (24:15):
Lonnie Anderson was on a TV show called w KRAP
in Cincinnati when I was young, and she, to me
was like the most beautiful girl in the work.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Listening to me, you're being way too nice. I'm from
massapeak with Lonnie Anderson's boobs, Oh my god, Lonnie.

Speaker 1 (24:28):
Anderson's boobs, you are correct? And Jarednia Anderson's boob yeah
this dream.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, so we have four yeas that just as male
American h young people. Yeah, back during when we were
how old back then, seven, eight, nine, ten were we
back then?

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Guys ten to twelve? I was a ten, yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:52):
But Lonnie Anderson on w Krapy in Cincinnati was she
was very pretty the top five for me. But that
was when you you could do serious back then, and
the women could dress a certain way and not wear
braziers under their clothes, and they did things much different
back then.

Speaker 1 (25:07):
For sure. I'm not saying that to be like weird.
I'm saying as that little kid like stand by Me movie,
and I like that little POV of young man. Lonnie
Anderson was lon Anson and and Linda Carter to me
were just like everything in the world. She was top
five two, but to me, like Linda Carter going back

(25:29):
to superhero stuff, like where I really started with my
superhero stuff was literally the Carter. Like I was like,
I didn't start with I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
I didn't start with superhero stuff. I kind of like
girls that were more like dirty, you know, Linda Carr.
The Carter was a little too clean for Yeah, she
was beautiful and when she spun and then she got
on a skateboard. I was like, oh, that's cool, but
you know I needed you know, I needed like I'm
more kind of gritty. Yeah, I'm more raw kind of chick,
you know. And so you know, like that girl from

(25:57):
uh Terminator.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
Oh wow, was the original Mom Hamilton? Yeah, like that's
you know when the Hamilton Mike looking at you, it's Jim.
You're like, will you spot me? You know, I feel
like i'd ask her for some help, you know what
I mean?

Speaker 3 (26:12):
And we'll be right back.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Not again. We're talking about fantasy that part, that's that's okay.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
But let's talk about movies and bad movies.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
And we're talking a great and you're using all of this, Jared,
whether you like it or not.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
That's fine.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Kind of shift gears. Yeah please? So can I put
my feet.

Speaker 3 (26:37):
Up from it'll affect the mics? Yeah, it shakes the
mic and vibrates.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Okay, Sorry, sorry, Joe, I mean I don't know, well,
what were you gonna say? I was gonna say. So
they talking about fantasy girls and moving to other stuff
like bad movies. That were talking about one bad movie.
I did a movie called The Real Deal that was starting.
Leela Bricado who is like in the Bronx Tail. Yeah, yeah,
yeah he was in that movie. We were the two leads.

(27:04):
And then uh and besides that, like Madison was in
the movie, who I know was do on the show already,
so imagine did a one day guest start in the
In the movie, he did a cameo playing himself where
I had to like just be oh my god, it's
Michael Madson. But the real reason I did the movie
is because Angie Everheart and I got it because I
had scenes with I had to roll around with Anngie

(27:26):
Everheart like like uh, like we had a fight scene,
but it was like very intense. And my ex wife
knew that I was in love with Angie Everhart. I
in love with her, and she took the movie and
she goes, you're not allowed to sleep over on set.
If Angie sleeping over on location, you need to drive
back from Malibu or like she she's there, you drive home.
She would not let me spend the night. But you
were married at the time, yes, And I was like right,

(27:48):
and I was like I'm like okay, And I did
the movie and Angie and I had a scene where
like we had like a fight scene but it was
on a bed where we were like a very second
gorgeous and the director knew that I was in love
with her, and he told and we're rolling around and
I have her like pinned down where like in a
wrestling move. He's like, he's like, how's this working for you? Joe?
I'm like, stop it, and she goes, what are you
talking about. He goes, oh, you didn't know. I'm like,

(28:09):
do not tell her? And he goes, oh, yeah, Joe's
wife won't let her spend the let me spend the
night here because you're here and you're like in his
like top five list of like you know right right.
He's like, you know, while you're holding right down as
I'm holding her now, at which point she goes, how's
this and she pushes her butt back into me as
I'm holding her, and she goes like is this better

(28:29):
for you? And I'm like, oh my god. And Angie
for the rest of the shoot would not stop torturing
me because she knew there was nothing that I could
do about it, and he just sat there and yeah,
she was impressive. Did the last part of the story
was that ever told to your ex wife before? No,
my ex wife. She wouldn't care. Now she'd laugh. Now

(28:50):
at the time, what's your ex wife's name? Uh shennon Elizabeth. Oh,
it's Shannon.

Speaker 3 (28:58):
I was trying to get you to ask that follow up.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
That is funny.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
First mention, that's brilliant, much more so because Shannon's good
looking gal. Yes, probably, i'd say better looking than Ange.
I would put them on the same tier. I would say,

(29:21):
is that fair sex is more attractive in my opinion. Now,
that doesn't mean dirty. Don't reference what I look.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
I'm not gonna lie. Here's the thing. Okay, the dirty
girl is Angie Everhart.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (29:34):
I'm not. Yes, that's correct, very correct. That's so great.
If she back, thank you. But I mean Shannon. But
she's funny, Angie's She's like, Angie, You're amazing, Shannon. I look,
and I will say this to the day. And Shannon,
to me was the most beautiful woman I'd ever seen
when I met her, like I loved her because she

(29:56):
knows that. But indeed, I can tell you the moment
that I knew that I was going to marry her,
which is a little side note, but I went to
the premiere of Drop Dead gorgeous, which Dinias Richard's was
in right and uh. And the two of them were
talking at the premiere, and Denise to me was also
one of the most beautiful women. Can't talk about Denise,
she's my friend, right, I'm just saying, like I can

(30:17):
just say it beautiful. I can't even talk about time.
But she was beautiful, right, Yeah, beautiful about Denise. That's fine.
You don't have to I will, I will, my brain
will just implode. That's fine. But for me, I thought
she was one of the most beautiful women at that time,
especially at that time. And the two of them were
talking and I sat there and I went, oh, my god.
If I had an opportunity to be with Denise, who
I think is one of the most beautiful in the world,
or be with my girlfriend, who would I want to

(30:38):
be with. I'm like, oh my god, I want to
be with my girlfriend.

Speaker 4 (30:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:41):
I was like, I go, I should marry this girl, because,
like she is, she is more important to me than
the fantasy that I could ever have. So that's why
I know it's going to marry her. God, you're a
nice guy.

Speaker 2 (30:53):
I'd dated Denise for a weekend and then got married
but that's just me.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
I mean, to be fair, if I could have taken them,
both of them, I would have done that one bad
beauty if I could. If I if I swung that,
I'd be a god. That's like that. But you know
that did not happen, and now you're single. Yeah no, girlfriend, No,
what's that like? Salt meat wound salt? We are hysterical,

(31:22):
Uh you know, yeah, I mean it's a process. I
mean it's been a while since I've been kind of
like on my own for a while.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
So yeah, yeah, I'm curious because I really think your
perspective is is your I don't call it opinion. I
think your perspective is very interesting because you wear multiple
hats in this town right now.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Yeah, you could be hired as an actor to do
whatever the heck you want very next month. Yeah. Sometimes yeah,
and you are actively online with Zoom dealing with students
that are ping correct, right, tell me about because you've
already answered about the political system in Hollywood, in the

(32:08):
studio system very wisely.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Unlike Stephen Baldwin, You've been very wise. But I just
want to know, in your experience as an actor yourself,
what have you seen in the last three decades as
a progression of acting now now, like I made the
joke I recently talked about, Hey, I've been out of
this game.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I'm just coming back right now. I'm getting ready to
start the writer director part season of my career is
what I did you do? What's tripped me out is
two years ago I was here visiting my granddaughter. I'm
in line at a Starbucks and this kid in front
of me, he's on the phone. He's like, yeah, cool,
I'll see you there. Yeah, I'll see at six. Right.
But at five o'clock I got a Zoom audition and

(32:48):
after that, I'll I went zoom audition. It took me
fifteen seconds to download. Zoom is that thing where you
talk to somebody on video. And so this kid means
he was auditioning for a movie, yeah or whatever through Zoom.

(33:09):
I'm exaggerating to make a point. You don't even have
to be in the room anymore. I haven't gotten to
a room to audition to four years. Sorry, I haven't
been in an audition room for four years. It's all
been zoom. It's all been self tape. I haven't been
in a room four Talk to me about that and
the young people you work with the now, in the
in the genetics, and in the in the digital aspect

(33:30):
of that. Like well, I mean the overall the biggest
thing to be aware of is the fact that we
all have a camera in our pocket now, right, So
everybody has that. So the thing that's I tell people, like,
the greatest thing that's happened in our generational change is
that everybody has a camera in their pocket, and anybody
can make a movie. The biggest nightmare that we have
in this society is that anybody can make a movie, everybody, right, So,

(33:51):
so like that's the that's the problem, right, right, it's
the win and the loss, correct, So because anybody has
the capability now of making something, which makes a lot
of bad movies. Now when we deal with the idea
of like acting, though, the biggest shift that I've seen
is that thirty years ago when we started, we didn't
really see ourselves on tape until we started working, right,

(34:11):
you know, we'd acted on right, we'd act on stage,
we had done things, but we really hadn't acted on
camera until we actually started working. But now everybody on
the planet has now seen themselves and how they act
and what acting naturally is because you and I had
to learn how to bring down our performance because we
were trained on stage probably I'm assuming you were too,

(34:32):
and we were trained to project to the back row.
But the kids today, they've seen themselves on camera doing
face times and zooms and all these things, and constantly
glanced at themselves subconsciously learning what natural acting is, right,
watching one's like to be real. So everybody now knows
what it's like to be real. Now there's no there
there's no lesson to be caught from that, except for

(34:54):
the fact organically understanding what feels natural. That doesn't teach
you how to act, obviously, to make choices, how to
build an arc, how to actually develop a character, that
still has to be taught. But the ability to deliver
a natural performance that everybody has learned how to do
from a very young age because it's ingrained in them Nowaday.

Speaker 2 (35:13):
Think about what you just said, almost like Andy Warhol
said that fifteen Minutes of fame because of what's gonna
happen with media. At some point, media will be so
overly exposed to everyone inaccessible. You can film yourself and
get so comfortable with that. That's what's changed, Joe weird

(35:34):
because like you just said, and forget from stage to
screen or from stage to a camera. Forget even that
psychology of performance for a second.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
Just if you and I worked on thirty five millimeter
feature films in the past, which we did correct before
the cell phone or before the ability to film yourself,
because we worked on thirty five millimeter films before there
was the ability to film yourself. Correct. But since then.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
In the in the through the kaleidoscope of acting and
how you learn acting and traditionally schools and students.

Speaker 1 (36:17):
And teachers, and now that first phase of the teaching,
which is to learn to edit yourself and not to
get in the shadow and all that's already taught correct, yep,
And that's that's exactly what do you have to break
through that in your acting class? Do you have to
tell kids, no, don't do it to the camera like
that because that's the way they like it, or no, no, not.

(36:40):
That hasn't really become a thing. Actors have really learned,
like their angles at a very young age, where like
before you know how to look good? Is everyone know
chined down three quarter profile? Everybody knows how to do right?
You know, you still have to teach people.

Speaker 2 (36:54):
My granddaughter's almost four. Yeah, and the kid can look
at a phone and look, and she's looking.

Speaker 1 (37:01):
She's watching herself. And that's what I'm saying. Everybody's learned
how to do that. That's been the really big shift
over the last thirty years. The other thing is, too,
is like I teach my class over zoom, and some
people have said to me, like, go oh, but I
want to be in a class and on stage. I'm like,
but that teaches you horrible habits. You need to learn
how to act in this frame right here, because every
audition that you have over zoom or self tape is

(37:22):
how that functions now. So if you know that first,
you need to know how to use this frame, how
to move in it, and how.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Because the reverse psychology of what you said earlier is
very interesting, which is it's harder to take from projecting
to the back of the room to the close up.
But teaching somebody to start to learn the close up
and then taking that and blowing it out on stage
would probably be probably be an easier progression.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
I think. So too, is that it turn it up. Yeah,
that's a book, dude, You should write that book. You
should write that book. You should write Why do I
have to write it. I'm not the acting teacher, just
a schmuck doing one bed, but I do feel like
but that's the things I do feel like the frame.
You teach people how to use the frame, just even
to move like this much, how to like I'm leaving.
If I'm leaving the room, all I have to do
is this right and then come back. I don't have

(38:07):
to actually walk away. I can be seated and create
the same kind of vibe. And I think like teaching
people how to do that on camera. But actors will
become super lazy because everyone can have their script on
their screen. People aren't memorizing the way they need to
or should, even the sad contract which has made it
so that actors don't have to memorize for an audition.
And the truth is, if you do memorize it, and

(38:27):
you know it and you can internalize it, your performance
is going to be better than reading up a piece
of paper, you know. And actors will become lazy and stupid,
you know, because they're like, oh, this is easier now
if you have a two page monologue. Sure, if we're
not issuing you have twenty four hours to memorize. Of
course you're gonna need to learn some of it, but
not to put the time in to internalize it and
feel it. I just feel like that's lazy, and I

(38:48):
feel like a lot of actors are really, really lazy,
and only one person gets to the job. I asked.
I ask actors all the time. I go, who's the
fastest person on the planet? If I ask you that,
who's the fastest person? You say both, Who's second? Sorry,
who's second? Nobody knows because nobody cares. Right, one guy
gets the job. You know in Hollywood that guy's really

(39:09):
fast and that guy who's second is also super fast,
either the second fastest guy in Jamaica or the second
fastest guy or the fastest guy in his country. And
it doesn't matter because if you're not number one, you
don't get the job. And that's how Hollywood jobs work.
So anybody who's lazy, who puts a hurdle in their
way or is lazy in the choice will never get
the job. Just can't happen.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
So what kind of advice as an acting teacher would
you give someone of Steven's experience? What kind of advice
would they give Toh, like, what kind of lesson acting
lessons to who?

Speaker 1 (39:41):
Steve?

Speaker 3 (39:42):
Oh to me, didn't you say you wanted to audit
his class?

Speaker 1 (39:46):
But I'm more interested in.

Speaker 2 (39:50):
I'm not in the last ten years the active zoom
audition thing. Really, I've done it very little, hardly at all,
maybe three times, and ten years have I done like
a self tape. I'll get to Joe in a minute.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
I'm just saying that. But no, But the reason the
reason I like to talk to him is he's seeing
the people, the younger generation, how they're you know, engaging
this community and this pool of activity. Right.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
So the reason I want to talk about with you
is you're actively doing it each and every day. And
all I ever see when I watch programming about acting
is the professionals, the working actors again, that club I
call it talking about acting.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
Sure, so now you have these round tables of people
who whoever they are, whatever their experience is, you know,
whatever their method is, whatever their technique is, five Tom
Hanks and whatever. Yeah, but they're the ones projecting out
to young people. Now, like what it's about. You see
where I'm going with this. I want to talk on
this show to somebody who's doing it. And it's interesting

(41:05):
to me that you're saying, what's important for young actors
today is learn acting. Yeah, of course, yes, learn the camera,
yeah yes, But but if you're if you're in an
acting class or you're studying somewhere now where you're gravitating
towards learning the lines, knowing the lines, doing a brand oh,

(41:28):
reading it off the screen instead of actually going back
to like that little childlike kid that was playing with
the army man, you know, at the at the beach.
I mean, here's the thing, so you understand what I'm saying.
I do. So here's the thing. Like Meisner technique, which
I'm sure you're aware of course, Meisner for those of
you who don't know at home, Meisner is a technique
we learn how to act natural, you know, and it's

(41:49):
really about listening and kind of connecting with somebody else.
I feel like everybody's learned that now because of the
way that the camera has operated in self tapes and zoom.
So like Meisner isn't what it used to be because
all of that stuff kind of we could argue about
whether or not like century memory stuff which they talk
about is something they could use, but like the idea
of connecting and really responding, that's not as helpful anymore

(42:10):
because I feel like everybody learns that. But when we're
talking about like acting, what they need to learn what
they don't teach you because these people who make TikTok videos,
and that is they don't learn how to build an
arc for a scene for a great character, right right,
And that's something that as somebody who's been a lead
in a film, that you understand that films are not
shot in order, and understanding where you are at every
point of that arc is super important because that is

(42:30):
what really holds the character together and we're able to foreshadows.

Speaker 4 (42:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:35):
Yeah, last time you saw all that click of actors
at a round table talking about acting, when's the last
time you heard what I'm going, Well, the arc of
my character.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
And that's what I'm saying is I don't see it,
And look, I love watching those. This is important, Jared.
This is showing young people that some old guys who
have been around a little bit really still care about
the craft. Well, these other guys are sitting around with
all the money going yeah it's the craft. Well, sorry,
not just my attitude about it, But to be honestly,

(43:05):
I love watching those round tables with the Hey guys,
I understand that you can hate them, but I enjoy
here and I totally get it, you know. But listen,
I think Tom Hanks is very Will you be my therapist? Sure, yeah,
you'd be a good therapist. I'd love to.

Speaker 2 (43:21):
Maybe I should just take your acting quess just so
you can like help me yea with my personal Yeah,
we can.

Speaker 1 (43:26):
Do that too. Calm down, private sessions too. It's all
good sessions. One on ones all the time, Okay, one
of ones most of my I mean I teach two classes,
but the one on one classes are you know. This
is the thing is working like a cornerman for a fighter,
which is really how I picture myself as an acting coach.
Is like you know, I'm like, I'm like the corner man.
I kind of sit there and great age because you

(43:51):
have to understand where you talk. Like Jake, I thought
I was over there fooling around. Huh. I thought I
was over there fooling around. Judges thought I was fooling
around too. Who knows what happened with them. I'd like
to say I could do the whole speedro so that's
that's de neuro doing Jack. Yeah. I think the thing

(44:12):
about the acting in talking about the art that I
was saying is like, I don't think any classes teach
that the way they should, because we have these kids
who learn how to act in a TikTok video or
learn how to do like Instagram videos and do all
that stuff, but they don't. That's just a microcosm of
a performance understanding, especially for an audition, and they never
talk about this in acting classes, and they should. Is like,

(44:33):
you sit there and you're like, if my scene that
I have is in the beginning of the movie and
it's a scene, let's say in The Wizard of Oz,
Dorothy has to project that she hates Kansas or it
doesn't matter when she says there's no place like home, right,
So you have to understand where you are in those
first thirty pages, and that what the performance calls for
is a real hatred for Kansas. If you're doing Star Wars,

(44:54):
Luke has to be pissed at the Droids and has
to kick them because his angst and anger has to
eventually be resolved for him to find the force and
find peace. Understanding where you are in the story to
build that arc. So a character has learns, learns things,
you know, overcomes obstacles and gets to where they need to.

(45:14):
Besides the story of whatever it is the backdrop in
Rocky finding love in that case, you know, finding self
worth is what really Rocky's about. Not about being a boxer.
It's about loving yourself right and understanding that it's not
about the boxing, but it's really about like being a
broken man and figuring out how do you find love
and self worth? Right? So teaching those things that's what

(45:35):
I really like to do with actors because I think
that's the thing that is missing from a lot of
the classes that I see.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
We should do an acting podcast, Okay, Jared make a note,
please done. It'll just be Joe being smart and me
being stupid and asking dumb questions. Joe right man, Yeah,
most important question of the entire interview, what is your

(46:04):
one bad movie?

Speaker 1 (46:06):
There's too many, really, to be honest. Can you can
you think of one in your filmography?

Speaker 3 (46:10):
That's just it was just I can chime in. You
guys both worked with someone an actor you mentioned just
ten minutes ago, right in Paul Giamata. You guys both
did movies with him. I did Fred Klaus and you
did Lady in the Water. What's it called Lady in
the Water? Lady in the Water, which.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
I don't think is a bad movie. I don't think
it's a bad movie.

Speaker 6 (46:33):
No.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
I think it's just some freakish experimental thing. I mean,
it's a dream. It's a dream night Charleman. Yeah, it was.
It was a it was a night. It was a
bedtime story that night. Shyamalan made it for his Shamalan
wrote a story for his daughter, and they turned into
a movie which is more of a thriller than a
horror film. I feel like the studio really didn't do
them justice. They released it as a horror movie and

(46:55):
try to push the horror, and it really isn't that movie.
It's really more of a fantasy based film. But it
was a bummer. I really liked that movie. I actually
liked that movie sadly. Yeah, what was it like?

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Cause it was a It was his fourth big movie,
fourth big studio movie, right forem night. Yeah, I don't
I think it was like his fourth, No, it was
his fifth. Because the village, he just had the village. Yeah,
and basically he's the hottest director in town. So how
did you get the project?

Speaker 1 (47:20):
Uh? Well, I mean I I auditioned for Lady in
the Water like anybody else does a sentencemitted tape. I
actually kind of got all gothic for it, like I
did put on like some eyeliner and a bunch of stuff,
which is not what ended up in the movie. But
I gave you the audition, and uh when they offered
me the job, I said I wanted to read the
script first, and they were like, really, you're not going
to say yes. I'm like, no, I want to read

(47:41):
the script before I say yes. I don't want to
I don't want to agree to his film that I
don't know what I'm doing right, And uh so Warner
Brothers had me go to the studio and I had
to hand over my phone and sign an NDA and
they put me in a private room with like the
script and I had to read it in one city.
That is awesome in a private room by myself. Yeah,
but isn't it cool that, like they could have just
told you to this off. They could have, but they

(48:01):
understood that. I said, I just want to be able
to read the script before I say yes. I just
want to read it, you know, and so but they
so they set it up. They set up that could
go in a room, and that's a dope story. I
love it had me down And I have a question, Yeah, Bandidas,
were you in the movie Ben Dida's sure was now
there was that movie? Yeah? Thank you, yeah, thank you?

(48:24):
Because here you are in the film. What's your character
in Bendida's the Regulator, which I was like just the
bad guy who worked you know that. Did you have
scenes with the girls? Of course I did, yeah, And
who were the girls? Penelope Cruz and Sma hyak So
I just and then the guy who's Sam Shepherd. Sam
Shepherd was Sam Shepherd's making a movie where he's training

(48:45):
these two gals how to be like cowboys. And Sam
Shepherd's like the greatest American cowboy, right, And here I am.
And I had performed like scenes from like True West
in college, and like I had done all of his
plays in college. I loved Sam.

Speaker 2 (49:00):
He's horror for the money to teach these two gorgeous
Hollywood starlets how to beat calboy.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
Here am I doing a scene with him, And I'm
so excited to be working with like a legend I'm like, here,
I am like this Jewish kid from Boston. He's jew
from Boston trying to like act like a cowboy with
the greatest American cowboy. And I see him at breakfast
day one and I go up to him and I go,
mister Shepherd, I said, I'm sorry, say I'm in the
movie with you. I just want to say how excited
I am. I've done all your plays in college and

(49:25):
I just think you're so talented. And Sam Shepherd looks
at me and he goes, can I eat my breakfast? Now?
He was in character? I wish he was. He was
just a character. I wish he was. See you're on
Banditas and it's a very sexy movie. Sure the way

(49:46):
they wrote it.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
They got the girls running around and you know, they're
shooting guns, and there being women running around shooting guns,
as you know, as Hollywood depicts that in history. Hello,
tell me about not just the fact what like you
were talking earlier, your your your ex wife, just that

(50:08):
you enjoy a pretty face.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
What was it like to be on Benita's like playing
your role. But I don't mean on a personal level.
Everybody's married this, it doesn't matter. I just mean was
it fun for you to be in that film with
these two gals being that silly and crazy? No? Why?
I mean, the whole experience was We're in Mexico filming
a movie with a European cast, mostly French, a crew

(50:34):
of who didn't speak English. Like even with all these stories,
it was a train wreck. It was. It was an
absolute train wreck. Like it was like nobody spoke English
on the set. It was. They got horses. I had
to ride a horse I trained in La we got
down there. They didn't get stunt horses. They just got
horses from a local guy who had horses. So the

(50:55):
first time I got on a horse that they were firing.
They're doing gun tests thing while the horse was on set,
which of course was freaking the horse out there. Get
on the horse. I'm like, this is a really bad idea.
And I get on the horse and the horse bucked
and threw me the first time that I got on
the horse. Who was the director? Uh? It was directed
by these two guys who Yoka who was it?

Speaker 3 (51:22):
Joahim running and and Espen Sandberg Scandinavian Scandinavian.

Speaker 1 (51:28):
Yet he's doing what was the film they did just
before that? And they're just they're doing tron now. I'm
playing the politics right now. I just want to see
something right now.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
They did just before that.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
And what was the year you did the Benas they.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
Did a short, They did a short movie.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
This was their first year, was Benas. And before that
they did a short. So this is their first feature.
It was written by lucas On. Oh did he ride it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Oh wow, Well Luke took all the money. That right,
That's what happened on that production.

Speaker 1 (52:04):
Thank god, you're okay. I got through it was it
just that throughout the whole shoot you kept getting bucked off.
There was safety problems. There were there were some safety problems.
They wanted me to ride the horse while carrying a
flaming torch and throw it through a window and do
all this stuff that you know, I was doing my
own stunts, you know. It was that kind of thing. Uh,
it was. It was just scenes with the girls. Of course,

(52:24):
have stunts with the girls, not stunts with the girls.
You have to make out with the girls. No, that
wasn't me. That would have been a stunt. Yeah yeah, no,
and some actual cruise. Some Kayak is a better looking
person than she is even on film. I do the
movie with some Hiakus, that's unimaginable. I know that she
could be any more. I thought some hiak was a
better looking person than she is on film.

Speaker 2 (52:45):
Was I do the movie with Someahayak with Laurence Fishburne
called Fled, where we played two guys.

Speaker 1 (52:50):
Who were escaping from prison. Some was fabulous.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
One of the coolest people on the Planet's very sweet
and yes too, from the top of her head to
the botto of her feet, she's pretty bulletproof.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
Yeah, Penelope Cruz, I think it's probably a hair more.

Speaker 2 (53:15):
Healthy is the only word I would use. Health think,
I'd just say healthy. I think Salma's gorgeous. But I
think Phenelpi Cruz I couldn't work with is all I'm saying. Really,
I couldn't even direct her in a film. Interesting, Yeah,
I would just elaborate. I would bump into the furniture constantly,
and just I wouldn't be able to focus.

Speaker 1 (53:35):
She was much quieter. Penelope was a much quieter kind
of like introvert, right. Selma was a little bit more
in your face extroverted, Yeah, which is fine. Sala's very
She's there. I was a filthy dirty, kind of like
Cowboy and and I cleaned up one day before I
had to fly back to la for a week off,

(53:55):
and she saw me. She goes, look at you.

Speaker 4 (53:58):
What she's like?

Speaker 1 (54:00):
You clean up? And I go, I go, is that
it she was? And I asked, somebody always said a
good or bad thing? She was, It's a thing that
was your president, that was your brush with beauty.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
Well, he was married to my angie everheart, Shannon Elizabeth,
so I don't know if it was his only brush.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
With Oh my angie ever heard. That's cute.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Wait, so let's go back. Luke Bassan wrote this at
the time. He's like one of the biggest directors. You
get that script, like, what are your thoughts after reading it? Uh?

Speaker 1 (54:31):
I thought the script was fine. When I read Bandita's
I thought it was fine. It's a funny, cute movie.

Speaker 2 (54:38):
It was a good you're talking about it the fact
that it's a bad movie for you because because in
the experience behind the scenes.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
He that was part of it. It was a train
wreck experience. It was a mess, Like you know, the
trailers were awful down there. They really it was a
hot box. I had to stay in and while wearing
like entire leather outfits. It was very tough. It was
a tough shoot, you know it. But they also paid
me more money than I'd ever seen before to do it,
and it was like I was, I mean, there was
no way I wasn't doing that. You've laid Barney roble Bro,

(55:07):
I understand was my biggest bencheck. And sometimes you sit
there and you're like, there's no way I can say
no to this, no matter what they do. You know,
I was like, this is crazy.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
You know, One bad Barney Baby wait for both of
you on both of these movies. Is there ever a
point where you're in the middle of it, right and
you're just like, I don't know if this paycheck is
worth it? Does it ever get that bad?

Speaker 1 (55:25):
Well for you, No, not for Bandidas. He never got
that bad.

Speaker 2 (55:32):
Now that I'm doing my own program, one bad movie, Uh,
there will be critics.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
I'm gonna have haters.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
You're gonna have people that I worked with in the
past who didn't like me, right, so they're gonna say
whatever they say. So the director Brian Levant, the director
of The Flintstones, Viava Rock Vegas. Hey, Brian, how you doing?
I got this microphone. Now you a little douche, So
pay attention. I'm kidding. I'm kidding, I'm kidding. Yeah, calm down, Yeah,

(56:02):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Gonna go off again.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
But in retrospect, I saw this video of that director
years after we made the movie, and he was busting
my balls with some guys. He was doing an interview
with you know, talking about my unprofessionalism. So it just
made me wonder, did he think that while he was
directing me?

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Right? Did he not like me? Wow?

Speaker 2 (56:25):
Now I already knew that because my ideas were better
than his as the actor. I would come to him
as the director and go hey this and he goes nah.
And he was a stand up comic formerly so Brian
Levant was a comedian who became a director only because
he was very involved in comics. The only reason the
studio picked him because he was like an expert in comics,
not to delineate from his you know, talent or anything.

(56:48):
He's a very good director. He directed a sixty million
dollar film called Flintstone viaver our Face. But it's just
weird this business, right, Yeah, Like if if you wondered
why you had a weird time with somebody who or
weird experience. Then the years later on social media him
go like, oh yeah, it was one person on that
movie was a dick. So I'm just talking about that
because it's trippy now industry wise to have to consider

(57:13):
in an art form all.

Speaker 1 (57:14):
Of that politics. And look, the directors of like Bandias
were great guys, you know what I mean. You can
have a great guide directors and then just have like
a crazy amount of like things go wrong on a set,
you know, and then you have times that things are
great on a set and the director is just a
horrible human being, you know.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
And how much better would performances be if most directors
could just get over whatever their personal shit was to
be able to let the actress express themselves without.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
In all humility, I guess, in all humbleness.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
Yeah, I mean, I played a character in a film
that now in retrospect, I realize the director was more
what was more important to Brian Levant about my performance
that his jokes got in for the care because I literally,
and I'm not saying this to be a dick in retrotech,
I'm simply saying I've learned the industry now, so now
I don't waste my time when I'm working with certain people,

(58:09):
if I'm working with the director that is shut down,
like Brian Lant was shut down to my creativity.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
He just wanted you wanted me to put the pilton
and be the guy that did the last But like
the Bandiana's movie is like even though it ended up
being and I think it was because of the mess
that was made by the production and it's.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Heart comp But then the directors, I mean, if you
don't want to say that, I'm just saying it's it's
their vision.

Speaker 1 (58:30):
Yeah, but I don't think I don't blame them for
the production. Like like like was said, like this was
the it was luke best song. Luke wasn't even on set,
Like you know, you have to sit there and be
like the producers who were from Europe who were there
were dealing with like you know, Mexican crew and a
couple of Scandinavian directors. It was every there were different voices, actors,
and all these things were kind of a mess. Those
directors went on to direct like the Pirates of the

(58:50):
Caribbean and made a great movie I think out of
that movie, right, and they looked they were kind enough
reming the same guy that same guys and they brought
me into kind of like audition for that movie Adidas
the Pirates of the Caribbean. Yeah, and you sit there
and you're like those guys are you know they were
good guys the heartfelt tell them it's it, Yes, very much, so,
you know, in a bad situation. Yeah, because I mean

(59:10):
their first feature, they're at the mercy of every of this,
of the production company. I think that's weird. That's weird.

Speaker 3 (59:16):
You guys have both worked with like huge name directors, right,
and from different backgrounds. You said Brian was a stand
up comic, Like all these directors come from different places.
Is there one characteristic from directors that you've worked with
that work well that you've noticed, like, for example, actors
who become directors are better or is there any common
background that you've from your experiences that you find make

(59:38):
better directors.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
I mean, I think what makes a really good director
tends to be somebody who like listens to the actors
and works with you, you know, doesn't just say just
do this. You know, it doesn't matter if they have
an acting background or not, or just film, but collaborative,
you know, a collaborative experience on set is super expensive,
super important. I think the experience is better if you're

(01:00:00):
working with the director. You have ideas, they hear them,
he says, they say what they're thinking, and you work
together to do what's needed. And if they're what they
need is not what you're doing, and they can justify it.
I'm sure you're like me. If they go like I
need this because of X, Y and Z, that resonates
you go got it. I think it's twofold. I think
there's actors directors and shooter directors. Michael Bay is a

(01:00:24):
shooter director. I never worked with him, but he's an
action guy, you know. I don't think he sits down
and breaks down the miisoner of it with people. No
that said, I worked with.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
You, no unusual suspects, right, Brian Singer, he was a
guy who would go through the process with you, but
he knew what he wanted, so when he was filming,
he wouldn't waste time. I worked with Brian de Palma
on Casualties of War. I have fired in the film,
but to Palma was somebody that didn't talk to you
at all. He only talked to you the main guys.

(01:00:58):
He relied on you to show up and know the work. Yeah,
And there's a lot of directors like that who I
prefer the director who talks to me and helps me
create the character and understand. And there's a difference between
directors who do that a tiny bit and shut up
and show up and do it because they're focused on
so many other things, like Brian to Palma. But I ironically,

(01:01:24):
I have found that the best films I was in,
the ones that had the best outcome, were with those
directors that were really the shooter guys who didn't give
you much to go on. I think, you know, usual suspects,
you know, Born on the fourth of July with Oliver Stone, right,
I was working on that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
I did a little part of it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:42):
But the process with Oliver Stone was very similar. He
talked about the character and he was just like, do
what you want, and then he edited around what he wanted.
So when he was directing you like you're saying, he
got what he knew in the edit, in the cut
of his mind. So I guess those in the cut
directors I think make the better movies. It's very interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
Yeah, I mean I think obviously a mix of the
two makes a really good movie.

Speaker 2 (01:02:06):
Well, then you get like a guy like Ron Howard
who's both Yeah, you know, which answers your question because
he was an actor. Yeah, so I don't think necessarily.
And here's the point I want to make to you, Jared,
which is, yes, Ron Howard's great, but he's not as
great as Francis Ford Coppola, who was never an actor.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
A sure point. Sure, that's just my opinion. Look. M
Knight was very good with the actors, which I thought
was really really great. He flew us all out for
the first table read and then just said how grateful
he was for us all to be there, and he's like,
I got my first choice for every role that I wanted.
I'm so grateful for all of you. And the guy
next to me said, wow, I can't believe he got
the first guy ever ever ago. Who knows if it's true,

(01:02:48):
but it was the smart thing to say, because we
all believe. I admire M. Knight. You'd like to work
with him again? Of course? Yeah. I think he's very
smart and very kind man and really well, he's brilliant. Yeah, story,
he's unique as a story. Yeah, he's great, great, And
then technically his films are brilliant. I think so too,
And I think he makes cool stuff. He doesn't make Barbie.
Now see now m Knight wouldn't do a sequel to Barbie.

(01:03:09):
That's what I'm saying. And look the guys you directed,
like like I said, the guys directed Banditas, Like I
think they're great directors. You sit there, but they were
young when they started, and they had just done a short,
and like, you know, the problem is going back to
the studio system. The studio, you know, whatever the producers
want when they're When you're a first time director, you
get bullied around a little bit and you don't have
all the control and you can't say where you want
the money. You can't put your foot down, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:29):
It's like those guys, that's yeah, Like like what you're saying,
people don't understand in the in the industry side of it.
You know, if you're going to punch a clock because
you're working on an assembly line, you know that whatever
that drama is nine to five Monday through Friday. That's
one thing. Yeah, But movies is show business, right, what's
the first word? What's the second word? Like you've heard
that old cliche, you know, but it's art meeting commerce

(01:03:52):
in the most unique way. Yeah, I tell people the
process of making a movie it is actually a pross
that goes completely against the process of making a movie.

Speaker 1 (01:04:03):
Yeah, that makes sense. The creative process of how to
do your bath.

Speaker 2 (01:04:07):
Like anything that wins an oscar or you know, really
credibly creatively deserves a certain outcome of success. The industry
is designed for the opposite to that to happen. Every
the forces of the process of making a movie here, well,
you know, people blows my mind if you think about it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
I did. I did another movie that was a super
low budget film. Those shot during the coronavirus experience. And
and the thing is is that it was done for
like no money with a crew of less than ten people.
It was the first film that that SAG approved of
being done after the strike. It was shot during the picks,

(01:04:48):
during the pandemic. It was like, you know, literally a
crew of like six people in a house with two actors. Right,
that's the whole movie. And from an artistics standpoint, you'd
be like, oh, this movie made for no money. If
you at a film festival, people would sit there and
be like, wow, that was made for no money. Two
people talking on a set, no money, it's fine, but
the movie got distribution, right, They changed the name of

(01:05:10):
it to a stupid name that nobody agreed with, and
then ended up making this movie and releasing it and
put it like in red boxes, and it wasn't good
enough to be there, right, So if you went to
a festival and saw it, you'd be like, wow, impressive,
they made a movie for nothing. You pay seven ninety nine.
Someone in Oklahoma pays seven to ninety nine to see
this movie. They expect a friggin' movie, you know, not

(01:05:32):
an artistic endeavor. They don't even know what that. They
don't understand what it takes to make a movie or
what it's like to make a movie for no money,
you know. So it's hard the perspective of like what
a movie is and what it takes to make it.
Most people don't even know. I don't think no idea
at all.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
Yeah that some idea, but not the very heavy technical,
behind the scenes aspects.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
No idea, how complicated it is. What we've talked about
is I don't see guys who have made as many
movies as us on the real real talking about acting.
Because there's going to be young people that see this
bro that go like, wow, I watched one bad movie
because it was funny, but like there was this awesome

(01:06:16):
conversation about these guys talking about like how important it
is as an actor to foundationally understand it's not about
all this other crap. Contemporarily, it's not about all this
other you know, tricks and you know, you know, it's
not the TMZ scroll of a Sorry yeah, sorry, right,

(01:06:36):
so you see my pun there. Yeah, So thank you
for doing this because I just think that that sort
of thing is important. Sure, I do too, Yeah, I
do too. Yes, Jared, you were saying I.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
Forgot now after I was gonna say some of your stories,
like the stories and bad movies, how they're perceived after
they're done, versus cant listen.

Speaker 2 (01:07:01):
The one bed for me, the thing that has made
certain movies or experience is bad. Are the other actors
are other method actors. My first feature film was called
The Beast. Very Kevin Reynolds, who directed Water World Right,

(01:07:21):
directs this movie with Jason Patrick. The actor was a
producer on this film who had developed the concept of
the movie from a play called Nanawatee. So the movie
was literally about the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. So it's
about how this tank battalion of Russians gets lost in

(01:07:44):
a valley and how these Mujahadeen are attacking them with
like stones and stuff and winning, you know, because of
their faith.

Speaker 1 (01:07:54):
So I'm literally working on this movie. I'm playing a
tank loader, a Ohian tankloader, and I had to study
with a guy named Dale Dye from Warriors in Corporated.
Had to learn how to do the tank and he
had trained Charlie Sheen and all those guys for what
was it read, don no no no, no, no no

(01:08:16):
no no platoon for a platoon. So here I am
playing a Russian soldier and this actor Don Harvey, you
know Don Harvey. Oh, Don's great. Don's a very talented guy.
I don't know what he's doing now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:31):
He's always working, but he's a he's a pretty smarmy,
intense method guy. And we're sitting there in Israel, I'm
away from to my first movie ever, like eating some
food at the that's the all in buffet at the
hotel they put us, and he turns to me and

(01:08:53):
just says something totally mean and like, you know, just
just uh, trying to deliberately hurt my feelings, but not
in the context of the work. In our personal interaction.
He literally turns me like he us, you know, I'm Steven.

(01:09:13):
What really bothers me about? And like, what I didn't
know is it was like it was a method trick
he was doing. He was doing that in our personal
life because on the set the next day he wanted
things to go a certain way. And I'm like, that
was weird, and I don't know what technique that is,
but it's very inefficient. Sure, I mean, I think you

(01:09:35):
need to be on the same page with another actor
you're working with. If you're not trusting each other and
working with each other, then I it doesn't make any
sense to me because it's a dance.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Now, Don Harvey might call in someday on this program
and go, no, dude, I just did it because it's possible.
But what are you talking about. It's like, if you're
doing a dance with somebody else, somebody you know you
need to work together on the dance. That's funny.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
Yeah, well, but but I don't think other other than
accidents on a set, you know, stepped on a rake
and a hitch in the head, you didn't know what
was going to happen.

Speaker 3 (01:10:02):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
I think the I think actors have been the creepiest
thing about my experience.

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Creepiest yep, the one bad movie. I mean I did
a commercial with Steven Saga and he punched me in
the face. I mean that was like an awful experience.
But break that down for me because he's in Russia now,
so you're safe.

Speaker 2 (01:10:18):
Yeah, Cigal, you're doing a commercial with Steven Sagal and
did you say something or he just thought you were.

Speaker 1 (01:10:26):
They tired, these actors, but they wanted to make sure
we could all do stunts. And we get to set
and Steven Sagal goes. He goes, so you're stunt guy.
I'm like, well, I'm actually an actor, but I do
my own stunts. He goes. Most of the time when
I work with stunt guys, they wear a metal sheet
under their clothes because when I hit them, I don't
break their ribs. I was like, okay, And we get
to the scene and he has to throw a backfist

(01:10:46):
to my face and I had heard that he hits
people and can't pull his punches. So I went to
the other actors in the set when we're about to
do my shot, and I gave them all twenty bucks
and go when the time comes, come and give me
my twenty buck. And we'd go to the shot and
he throws the backfist and he pulls a function but
throws it and hits me in the face, like literally,
he knocks you to the ground. Yeah it's cigall. Yeah,

(01:11:06):
it's a big fist. And he hit me and I
drop and the director comes out and says, we got it. No, no,
director goes to goes, he goes, he goes, did he
lean in? Was it his fault? And yes, and Seagall
looks at me and goes, no, not such a bad guy.
I hit the ground and I went to here when

(01:11:27):
I said, pay up, and everyone comes up and gives
me the twenty back and he goes, you bet everybody
that i'd hit you. I'm like, yeah, everybody, because I
knew he would do it. And we do another take
and he hit me in the face again. Yeah, hit
me twice, drop me twice. Yeah, you took two backfists
from Stevens Sigal And at the end of the day
he called me to his trailer and he had two

(01:11:48):
girls in there. His uh. His he had some sort
of like military training guy and like a microbiotics chef
and they were all there and somebody playing the guitar
and he comes. He goes like, I just want to
thank you for your work today, because he sat there
in his kimono playing the guitar, and he's he's like, no, mistay,
thank you so much for being here.

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
I'm like, this dude touched me in the face twice today.
Somebody gets right and his rider is trainer chef. Two
chicks on the side pretty much. Wow, yeah, must they
were interns. Interesting they weren't dressing interns.

Speaker 1 (01:12:23):
What was the location of that movie the commercial here
in America? That was in the valley in a liquor store. Yes, yeah,
I was like a victory in some liquor store off
of like I want to say, Cold Water Canyon Circus.
It was not Circus, but I shot at Circus before.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
Well, can I just tell you right now, I literally
told that guy in the yellow shirt two months ago,
if I raise the money and I call Segal in Russia.
Now I want to call Stephen Skull and go, if
I give you a million dollars, will you be my instructor?

(01:13:00):
My martial arts instructor for a month. If I pay
a million dollars and I film it, I'll give you
the back end. I'll negotia whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:13:07):
Pros, but fifty to fifty all the prophets. If it
makes one hundred million, I give a fifty. Okay, I
just want to come to Russia and have you teach
me martial arts. Because you ever see his videos, it's
the cool it's Fred Astaire of martial arts. Dude. He
like take a guy by his stump and goes and
the guy goes like the matrix. The guy flipped through
the arts. Yeah, it's great. I want to learn that. Sure,

(01:13:28):
r suky, Joe, you can director. Let's go to Russia.
You can direct it. We're going to Russia.

Speaker 7 (01:13:36):
Good Uh poutin ain't ready for rightman and bald when
I tell you right now?

Speaker 4 (01:13:42):
Baby?

Speaker 1 (01:13:44):
But yeah, no, I mean think I mean actor. I
did a movie recently with an actor who I deeply admired,
who I was a hero of mine when I was younger,
and I was offered the job by a friend. He's like,
do you want to do a scene with this actor?
I said absolutely, he's a hero of mine. I absolutely
want to do it. And I got to set and
my friends like, you want to meet him? And the actor,

(01:14:06):
who I admire, was talking to a craft service person
and they led me up to him and he goes
in and the producer said, I'd like to introduce you,
and the guy goes, I'm busy because he was talking
to a girl, at which point Casper Van Dean walks by.
You know Casper, right, yes, yeah, Cap watch by. He
he's like word of the wise, don't interrupt him when
he's talking to women like that. Was like, I was like,

(01:14:27):
what is that right? You can't rather?

Speaker 3 (01:14:32):
And it was his brother.

Speaker 1 (01:14:35):
Yeah, and then uh. And then we got to shoot
the scene and they were like, the directors says, who
do he wants to do coverage of first, and the
actor says, I want to do my coverage first. So
they set up the camera, they go over my shoulder
and they go to the actor and the director. He
goes to the directors, how long have I known this guy?
He's like, uh, years, He's like, how long have you

(01:14:55):
been here? A couple hours? How long you've been having
this conversation? Five minutes? Okay, I'm ready And then he
sits and he looks at me. They go action the
role and he just goes line.

Speaker 6 (01:15:07):
And the.

Speaker 1 (01:15:09):
And the director goes. The director goes, where's my money?
And he goes, where's my money? And then I go,
I don't know, and then he goes and then he
looks at me, and he was line and he did
that for the whole scene, the whole scene, said line,
one line at a time. The director fed him every
line for the whole scene.

Speaker 7 (01:15:30):
He was like, he's the only legend they can get
away with that kind of behavior because he's so brilliant

(01:15:51):
but hero.

Speaker 2 (01:15:52):
But now you know, he goes to his defense a
little bit like Bruce Willis right now, he's having you know,
not memories. I understand, but Mickey's getting up there and
he's slowing down. If you sit with Mickey like this,
he's can have a totally normal conversation, I understand. But
right now, because I just in a movie with him,
like a year ago, uh uh, when did you work

(01:16:13):
with him?

Speaker 1 (01:16:13):
How long ago? Year and a half?

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Maybe same thing, which was he kind of wasn't able
to I don't know how much listen to me. I
know Mickey Rourke pretty good, and I'm willing to bet
you just like if Mickey's talking to a pretty girl,
see how focused he can be.

Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Then ah, you know what I mean, Mickey's a little eccentric,
he is. And I'm hero of mine. Hero. Oh bro
Mickey Rourke. You know I and Iron Man. He was
in Iron Man Going Full Circle.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
Mickey Rourke in Barfly is one of the top ten
greatest single performances by an actor in film history in
my opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
And Look an Angel Heart to Me is one of
my favorite movies When I think.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
I think Barfly is as I would have a performance
as Roberts and Iron Raging.

Speaker 1 (01:17:03):
Ball and Look the Wrestler is one of my favorite
ten movies right for us, I mean Wrestling Rocky and
the Wrestler.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
But again, I remember how I said at the beginning
this conversation, I like it dirty. Yeah, Mickey's a dirty actor,
you know what I mean. Mickey's just always done it
his way. You he insisted his reward robe for the shoot.
You were like an orange cowboy suit.

Speaker 1 (01:17:23):
It was like the craziest thing. And then they didn't
have like duplicates, so like when his standing came and
he just stripped down to his underwear, handed it over
to Stanga and he just sat in a chair. But
it was crazy. Mickey's the kind of guy that when
he understood like what Brando was like, yeah, he started
to cut.

Speaker 2 (01:17:39):
Like there's few actors around anymore, like Sean Penn, you know,
just a few guys around anymore that really want.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
To, you know, just search the mystery of that thing.
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Now, personally, I don't agree with a lot of like,
you know, there's a lot of actors that think in
order to be that creative or powerful or dramatic, you know,
you have to be an alcohol you have to you know,
you have to suffer, you have to. I don't believe
in any of that. It's kind of like when Gilgood
said on Marathon Man to Hoffmann, you know, that's try acting.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
But it's a great line. Because I worked with the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
I worked on a movie called eight Seconds, which was
a rodeo picture with Luke Perry yep. And the director
of that at the time was the guy from Rocky
What's his name passed away? John Ableton. So when I
worked on that movie, I was playing a cowboy character
with an accent with John Albleton, dude one oscars and

(01:18:34):
all this kind of stuff and learning the accent.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Like we were talking here. It was a very serious
commitment to a character, and here was Ableton. Great director.

Speaker 2 (01:18:43):
We're talking about directors giving great You prefer when you
can communicate with the director and go through the development
of the character and all that stuff. I did another
movie called Crossing the Bridge early on in my career,
a little low budget indie film with Jason Gedrick and
Josh Charles, and it was written and directed by a
guy named Mike Binder. Mike Binder is a very successful

(01:19:06):
comedian comedy writer. He did a sex Monster, the series
and the series Mind of the Married Man.

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Did you ever see that? Many years ago? I don't remember.

Speaker 2 (01:19:17):
Binder's been in He's written and directed a lot of
really cool stuff. So he does this little indie film
with me, and he's a stand up comic, is his roots.
And now he's directing this feature film with me and
these two other actors. It's his first movie. Mike Binder.
He's a stand up comic directing his first feature. And
I'm doing the scene and.

Speaker 1 (01:19:38):
It's a heavy scene. I gotta cry and this and
I have all these beats and I have it all
worked out and I know how I want to do it,
and we shoot the scene and I do one tick,
two ticks, three ticks, four ticks, four takes.

Speaker 2 (01:19:51):
Mike comes over. He goes, hey, I just go keep
giving me one more because I'm trying to find this
thing in this shot, by this little arc in the
in the scene that I'm portraying as the actor. Finally,
after like nine takes, Joe Mike Binder gives at to
me and he goes, I said, okay, if I just

(01:20:12):
give you one little suggesting I go yeah, man, yeah, yeah,
just like I keep asking for one more because I'm
just trying to find a certain flow in the scene here.

Speaker 1 (01:20:20):
And he goes. He goes, yeah, you just do one.
I just want you to try one for me. I go, yeah,
he goes, just say the words I could cry right now,
I literally went, he goes, because he wasn't thinking in
the bubble. I understand, understand. He literally just went stop acting.
See what happens that you go the opposite way with

(01:20:43):
your process right now? That's the take they used and
think nothing sure and just say I will never My
whole acting career changed after that film because I no
longer I had the same story. Right when I was
doing the Perfect Storm. At the end of the movie,
I'm sitting at the bar and I survived. I see

(01:21:04):
the boats gone down on the TV, and I go
to Wolfgang and they brought me back. They added the
scene that they wanted me to do where I'm just
like where I see the boat went down, and I
went to Wolfgang. Thank you so much for bringing me
back and having an extra scene. I'm so grateful. I go,
I don't know what you want me to do. Want
me to smash a bottle? Or do you want me
to cry? Or do you want me to sit there
and hold my head and sob or.

Speaker 6 (01:21:23):
He goes, Joe, do is apt and the comed will
push in and the music will spell and you will
look brilliant.

Speaker 1 (01:21:37):
And I was like, he walked away and went, what
the does that mean? Right? And I go, I'm just
going to stare and not blink at the TV and
just sit there and see what happens with the smoke
in the room and just see what happens. And I
did that, right, That's all I did. And it's way more.

(01:21:57):
And my mom watches the movie. She goes that scene
at the end and when the camera pushes in and
the music swells. You were so emotional. She's like, what
were you h Yeah, she goes, what were you thinking?
I was thinking, don't blink? And she goes, don't this
movie up for me? Do you not this movie up
for me? But but is that revelation of like you said,

(01:22:19):
there go, I don't have to do as much as
I think I have to do.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
But you just encapsulated the point of one bad movie. Like,
there's the perception people have of movies, and then there's
the people who make them, like you and me, who
get to talk about it, you know, and and hopefully
share with this because I just think it's so that
that is really interesting in the same bubble that I.

Speaker 1 (01:22:39):
Was just correct mentioning. And I worked with a director
named George Schleiser. I don't know if you know that
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:22:46):
He made a movie called The Vanishing that was very successful,
the Dutch version first, and then they did the American
version with Jeff Bridges and it was a bad movie. Yeah,
you know, Schleiser never worked with the American studio system again.

Speaker 1 (01:22:58):
Oh really after that movie just they screwed them. I know,
they changed the ending.

Speaker 2 (01:23:03):
I think they did Sandra Bullock, and this it just
it just wasn't the original. You know, they didn't let
him do what he did with the original.

Speaker 1 (01:23:11):
You know the same thing with bands, like I said,
they did. Don't let somebody like that who's new to
the system, right, same thing too. Shut.

Speaker 2 (01:23:19):
What was fascinating about Schleizer was we were shooting this
feature film about an actor who plays on a reoccurring
crime drama series. So imagine like, there's Unsolved Mysteries the
TV show, and I'm an actor being hired by a
TV show doing stories about real crimes, and they bring

(01:23:43):
the actor and do like and then he went to
the front door with a knife, and you have the actor.

Speaker 1 (01:23:46):
Come in and go like that, and they put that in.
So it's that idea.

Speaker 2 (01:23:50):
But now the actor who's weekly portraying a killer gets
contacted by the killer. So now the movie is about
a guy who's an actor trying to find the method
and the truth. And now he doesn't tell anyone that
he's re enacting the crimes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:08):
Every week after this guy kills somebody, and he doesn't
tell the cops that he's talking to because he wants
to get so close to the real thing and then
it becomes It seems psychologically kind of crazy, but it's
interesting in the thought of.

Speaker 2 (01:24:21):
How that actor, how close to the sun that actor
can fly before becoming, you know, an axe murderer himself.
So I'm working with George Sliser, he does the Vanishing.
I'm a big fan, and every time there's a murder
in the film, he never shows the violence.

Speaker 1 (01:24:40):
I play the crime reenactment actor.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
So I take like an ice pick, and I got
this woman in an alley and I lift the ice
pick up right in front of her face, and right
before I stick it in her eye because later in
the film that just goes her eye was removed by
an ice pick. But in the scene previously where I'm
doing it, you see me lift the ice pick to
her eye, and then the camera goes down her body

(01:25:03):
and you hear you see your feet going like like
very hitchcock. This guy had a very hitchcock but he
never hardly ever showed the blood or the violence. I'm
working with this guy in London and I turned him.
I go, George, Arge, you're gonna like show it. I
said to George Slide, I'm like, you know, the lead

(01:25:25):
actor in the film I'm like, just will there be
any because after the third or fourth re enactment, when
the way he filmed it, there was no blood, no violence.
It was the suggestion of it in the psychology. So
I turned around, I said, are they all gonna be
like that? He goes, oh, yes, Steven, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:25:42):
The violence is farm extreme in the mind of the viewer.
Then if I show them the eyeball being scooped out
by the ice.

Speaker 2 (01:25:50):
Pick, yeah, again it was like Mike Finder, I went,
the vision of the violence is far greater in the mind.
So if you apply that to acting, yeah, and what
if your performance is so less is more because you're
so inviting the man?

Speaker 1 (01:26:08):
You know what I mean? It's I mean acting. I mean, like,
you know, the first thing you learn film school is
they show like the footage of a guy to sit
in there thinking, you know, and then they cut away
to like a piece of like some food. And then
when you cut to the food, you cut back to
me and go, oh, he's thinking about food, you know.
And then if you show the prince and person just
sit in there thinking and you cut to him rolling

(01:26:28):
on the beach with a woman in the water, Oh,
he's thinking about that. If you have happy music that
you put on top of that, he's having a positive memory.
You put sad music, he's acting with sad memory. Right.
So it's not so much what we do as long
as we're thinking, because they can make anything you want
if we understand the process of what's important. A good
director will create that emotion that has to happen with

(01:26:50):
music and imagery. That's it we can do less or
a good editor. They're a good editor. Or did you
get that? Sure? Did you get that shirt?

Speaker 6 (01:27:01):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
There was? There was. There's a place I want to
say in Arizona called the Unicorn Cupcake Company or something,
and they were at a gifting suite in Los Angeles
and they said, if you ever come to a new
if you ever come to Arizona, coming to the shop.
I went in. The shirt was on there, I saw it.
I loved the shirt, and they gave me the shirt.
I love the shirt now. Just so you know, see

(01:27:24):
that in the box see that creature black Lagoon? Did
you see Batman up there? Do not see Batman? You
see killer Tomatoes?

Speaker 3 (01:27:33):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:27:33):
Those are t shirts. Look at that that we stretched
and had put in there framed. They're so fabulous. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
Instead of turning them into pillows, we framed them.

Speaker 1 (01:27:45):
Joe, thank you so much. Good beer. Did you drink
both of your Macho LTEs for almost like one and
a half? Good? Yeah, very thanks having man, thank you,
thanks for having.

Speaker 4 (01:28:00):
Love be during the richly sex and guilty pleasures. This
sun is food. It's so bad it's good. One bad move,
the only sure