Michael Madsen

Living legend, screen icon and one of the greatest actors alive, Michael Madsen joins the pod to talk fighting fake wolves, Freeing Willy, meeting Al Pacino, what was the story behind his hat in Kill Bill, and we even get a special call-in from Big Brother, Alec.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh no, it was greatness. Man. It's too bad it
was a remake because if it would have been on
its own, I don't think I think it would have
did a lot better. Yeah, I think it made about
a forty fifty. Yeah, no it did. Yeah, I don't
think they left it out long enough. But but he
was great, he was the best.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
You were great, dang it. I was okay, dang it,
Michael Madson, I.

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Was okay in that. Yeah, that's one of my better ones.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
You got a couple other pretty good ones.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, yeah, I got your favorite. I got lucky.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
It's a dumb question. I hate when they go, what's
your favorite movie? I have to say Barnie.

Speaker 1 (00:38):
Yeah, but you got to be barniey Robell. That's pretty cool.
I mean, you know, we gets to be Bernie Rubell Man.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
You know, hey, Bernie Rubell f everybuddy.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
I'm sure you did great. I didn't see that one.

Speaker 3 (00:59):
Madlits.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
It's so bad.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's good. Guilty Madnesses, Sun List, it's so bad.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
It's good.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
One bad mo.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Ladies and gentlemen, I'm Stephen Baldwin. Welcome to the One
Bad Movie. Quite thrilling, Old friend, old buddy, old thespian
partner Michael Manson in the house, Ladies and gentlemen.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:32):
So the concept, Michael, you please, thank you for being here.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
Brother.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
The idea here with One Bad Movie is it's a
podcast to talk to people in Hollywood about bad movies,
because all we do is talk about the pretty good
ones most of the time.

Speaker 1 (01:46):
That's a list of pretty good ones right there. They
haven't caught up to the bad ones.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, tell me, Stephen Bon Welcome to One Bad Movie, Michael,
ma watch, just watch Mike Madson, what's your one bad movie?

Speaker 1 (01:56):
Christmas Crash, Chris, The Christmas Crash Chris is crash. Yeah.
I'm attacked by a wolf and so they throwed us
a stuffed wolf at me. There it is, and I
had I had to pretend like he was killing me
in it. It's really super awkward, man. You know. The
thing is just like a big piece of fur, you know,

(02:17):
and you're sitting there and you're like, okay, man, I
gotta make this look really good, you know, the action,
and they throw it on you and you're.

Speaker 3 (02:23):
Like, that's what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
It's ridiculous, you know, and oh my god, man, but
you went with it. Oh yeah, you have to the choice.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
Here's the thing. If that were I made it.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Get me in the neck.

Speaker 2 (02:36):
You did that?

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, you did the wholess Oh yeah, I wrestled with
it and I threw it, you know, and they picked
it up. They threw it back on me, you know,
and it's so awkward, it's so stupid. You gotta pretend
you're getting ripped apartment Michael, get him to bite your
neck again.

Speaker 3 (02:52):
That's brilliant.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
It was one that was incredible.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
We got it. We got it. Oh man, Oh, Michael,
Jesus was great. Yeah, and you're like, it's just take
out of here.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
You've all had a couple of those.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Mike. No, I know, I know you're so handsome. You
really are, man, you know you are you know, you
know you remind me of ist. No, who's the guy
from uh Breakfast at Tiffany's Gee, George for Part. Yeah,

(03:28):
nobody's ever said that to you. Oh Stephen, come.

Speaker 2 (03:31):
On, No, that's fantastic.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
You're you're George for Part from me very first time
I ever saw you, man, this is this.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Is what's your name? Vanessa Johansson?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Wow, I didn't know she had a sister.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
Oh yeah, she's terrifical.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
I got a Johanson's story, but I don't think I
can tell you. I wouldn't tell it. It's not worth it.
Oh is that supposed to be the bad guy? I
can tell by way they did just show.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Here we are, so listen. I'm a shark expert, an expert,
and she's like been a sign to to this very
rare case.

Speaker 1 (04:08):
Here's the bad guy, he's terrible, but he's at a
fake mustache, a fake beard. There's the guy that's another
fake beard.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
He's the but he's the boss with the shag carpet
on his head.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
Look, why don't they ever get good mustaches on people?
You know? Or why didn't he just grow his own beard?
You know? Why did they have to put the fake
one on?

Speaker 2 (04:30):
Because the continuity of the film with shots.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
It looks so horrible they I bet they didn't tell
you they were going to call it that in the beginning.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
All right, let's fast forward, guys. She's cute as a button.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
George, let's get it.

Speaker 2 (04:49):
Here we go, Here we go.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
You ever see George part in the blue Max?

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Let me see some sharks, show me, show me shocks
in Venice. I need a sighting. I need Roy Scheida.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
I did a picture of Roy which one it never
came out, Oh perfect, it was called red Light Runners.
Not only did it come out, but they never paid
Roy either. He never forgave me for that.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
If we ever did a remake of Jaws, could you
play Quint you'd act.

Speaker 3 (05:25):
No.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
I'd love to tell the story.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
That would be fun.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
The guys in the Indianapolis. I read that they did
like four takes of that, and the first one he
was sober and he was fine, and then he was
drinking throughout the night. And the final one that's in
the movie is he was pretty hammered of the Indianapolis,
the guys in Indianapolis. And then that's the best one.

Speaker 3 (05:48):
In the movie.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Listen, I'm getting a chill thinking about that speech because
everybody says.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Those dark guys Lego doos Man brilliant. But you can
tell because in the show they show earlier clips where
he's straightforward about it and then later on he's yeah,
and then this buddy was showing up. But you can tell,
you know that that if you're a drinker, you could tell,

(06:15):
which I was once upon a time.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
There's a special frequency he was on.

Speaker 1 (06:18):
Yes see, I could talk about it now you get
on that alcohol frequency. Yeah, I've got a few of
those out there.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
Have you ever done any scenes like that where you
every take you drink a little bit more?

Speaker 1 (06:28):
And uh, you know, I always felt like drinking on
camera was not the best way to play drunk because
it would work the opposite against you. Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
I did one. I did Last Exit to Brooklyn, remember
that moment and Selby No No Crazy Movie. And I
was drinking on that movie before.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I did one in Romania where I was supposed to
speak in Romanian and I learned how to say the words,
but I didn't know what they meant, and so I
made them put it on two cards for me, and
so I'm reading him and I'm saying in it. But
I was really not good, and I had lots of

(07:06):
vodka on that particular afternoon. This like in the nineties,
you know, ninety five. I'm a big boy now. But anyway,
I saw a clip for a bit. There's a clip
from it a couple of years ago, and the cameras
behind me, and instead of me saying the line in

(07:28):
Romanian in the movie, I actually you hear my voice
say stop telling me how to pronounce stuff. They kept
it in the film, which makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (07:46):
It must have interrupted some kind of edit or something.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Yes, really it must have been. No, I know who
wore a pair of socks in their pants? And no
you don't on WYATRP. Yeah, I can't, I won't. No,
I can't. Couldn't do that, man, I couldn't do that.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
Next week, No, we'll be back Michael Mansion. There's a
mystery of wild up.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
There's a there's a walk sock.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Who done it?

Speaker 1 (08:11):
There's a walk down to the Okay Corral. There's a
walk on the way dog that was on the on
the walk down of the Okay Corral. There's a participant
that that roll the socks?

Speaker 4 (08:24):
What was the thinking behind.

Speaker 1 (08:25):
I can't, I wouldn't do it. I couldn't say I wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
I can't.

Speaker 1 (08:33):
I can't do that.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
It's funny, though.

Speaker 1 (08:35):
No, it is funny. It's funny how I found out
about it? More funny, it's you know, I get it, though,
I must say.

Speaker 2 (08:43):
How'd you find out about it? Without going completely off
the reservation I had.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
I had a friend in wardrobe who informed me of it.

Speaker 2 (08:55):
Oh that's the best.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Yeah, rated him out. Yeah, it's nasty rough. Oh. Well,
you know sometimes I get it, man, I mean I
already get it.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
Well, you want to measure up, and you know we
had to package.

Speaker 1 (09:15):
The package to look good man, you know, sure, No,
it's a good idea.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Today. Your title was Christmas.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
What the Christmas crash?

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Christmas crash? Yeah, okay, Michael, just walk me through. What's
the overall story if you read the script.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Well, back when I used to read scripts, Uh, it's
my wife and I and we crashed in a plane
and we're lost in the in the wilderness somewhere, which
is impossible because how could we be lost when we're
only a few miles from home. And so uh, I'm

(09:51):
I'm I'm debilitated. I think I hurt my leg or something.
And she's supposed to be the dominant one of the
of the of the marriage, and so uh, I'm I'm
laying in the tent and this wolf comes around and
the damn thing jumps on me, and and uh and

(10:13):
so she fazes it away with it.

Speaker 2 (10:16):
I almost wanted to do this in advance with your permission,
but apparently in the stunts of fighting with the wolf itself. Yeah,
it really wasn't a wolf, was it.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Well? No, it was a goddamn piece of fur. It
was like a pillowcase with a head on it, and
they stuffed it full of rags, you know, and they
threw it at me. But the first time I saw it,
I go, oh my god, is that it?

Speaker 3 (10:40):
No?

Speaker 1 (10:40):
You know?

Speaker 5 (10:41):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, And I said, well what am I supposed to?

Speaker 3 (10:43):
You know?

Speaker 1 (10:44):
They well, we'll just I said, oh my, okay, just
throw it at me, Just throw it in and I'll
catch it and then I'll pretend like it's getting me.
And they're like, yeah, that's a great idea. So it's
pretty fast that they cut away to some other guys.
She cover she covers me up.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
And then and who's this again? John Jared? Who's this?
This is the lovely what's your name? Alexandra Paul stunning
Actress's good?

Speaker 1 (11:12):
It's it's a She was a good softball player. She
liked to play softball.

Speaker 2 (11:21):
Sweet, there it is. Oh, so that.

Speaker 6 (11:30):
Was it?

Speaker 1 (11:31):
That was it? And then they cut to this guy.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, I gotta it was. That was faster than I
thought it was gonna be.

Speaker 1 (11:37):
It must have been so bad they couldn't use.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
It premature Wolfe. Uh isation there, this is the intro.
I'm doing the intro of the show. You ready, Oh yeah,
you're all warmed.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Up the films of Michael Madison. I've done some good ones.

Speaker 4 (11:57):
What was the argument about, Like why why did he
want you to take the hat off?

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Well?

Speaker 1 (12:02):
I bought that hat in Durango, Mexico when I was
doing a western right before we were doing the read
throughs for kill Bill, and I started, you know, just
my hat man. So I wasn't really I didn't have
a plan for it, but I was wearing it to
the read throughs for kill Bill and Quentin comes up

(12:25):
to me and he goes, you know, you're not gonna
wear that hat and I go, what do you mean?
He goes, you're not wearing that hat in the movie,
and I go, well, I wasn't really planning on it,
you know, they know, but every time you show up
you got the hat. And I go, well, it's because
it's my hat, you know. I wasn't It wasn't a setup,
you know. And he says, no, but you're not gonna
wear it in the movie and I said, well, you know,

(12:47):
I kind of want to. Now you know now that
you're saying that, I think maybe I will wear it,
and he goes no, no, And so anyway, like the
next day there I am in the hat and he
and he says, you know, I can't now picture you
without the hat, so you can wear it in the movie.

(13:09):
And so I did. But then later on we're shooting
after establishing the goddamn thing in the graveyard, he wrote
the scene where I have to take the hat off
in the strip club and him and Larry didn't tell
me that he was going to say that on camera,
that he was going to tell me he want you
to take off that hat, and I didn't know that

(13:30):
he was going to do that. Yeah, and so when
I take that hat off, that was no acting for
me because I didn't want to take the goddamn thing.
Oh but I was trying to go with the scene,
and so I took it off, you know, But it
was a trick. They played a trick on me to
make me take the hat off, which is brilliant, you know.

(13:52):
I mean, that's that's brilliant filming.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
We can I just compliment you really quickly because this
think about what those guys had to talk about before
told me that to you. No, but it just means
your acting is so what it is, But it's intense, Mike. No, Look,
you're you're a very focused, intense guy when you do
your thing.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Larry told me later on, he said that Quentin went
to his trailer and he said, you know, you gotta
make Manson take off that head. I don't know how
you gonna do it, but just make him take that
head off.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
I could just see Quintin and this trailer going, how.

Speaker 1 (14:26):
Do we get how are we going to get Michael
to take that head off? And they planned it like
they planned it, you know, him and Larry planned it,
and then they sprung it on me, you know, right
when I'm standing there with the thing. You know, I
had to react to it, and I didn't know what
was going on.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Mike.

Speaker 4 (14:41):
You just came off of Reservoir Dogs like this huge indie,
like the biggest movie of the year, indie wise, right, Yeah,
makes a name for Quentin, makes a name for the
cast involved. And when does the script of Free Willie
come your way?

Speaker 1 (14:53):
Oh god, that was way before that. No, I did
Free Willy way before. I don't know what year was
Free Willy Reservore Dogs was ninety two.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
Yeah, Reservoir Dogs was ninety two, Freewillly was ninety three.

Speaker 1 (15:08):
Okay, well see I got that backwards. Then I would
have thought it was the other way around. When I
got the script for Free Willy, I didn't understand why
they wanted me for the dad. And I remember I
was really worried, and I went to Simon Winsor, who
was the director of it, and I said, Simon, and

(15:32):
I said, why why did you cast me as his father?
And he goes, well, Michael, Michael, I don't know. Mike
didn't so, and I thought there must be something in
the script that they hadn't told me about, you know,
like I would do something really bad at some point,

(15:53):
you know, I was going to hurt the kid, or
I was gonna cut one of them. I was gonna
cut Willie's fin or something. I was convinced that they
had tricked me to be the father by not telling
me that I was going to do some dastardly thing.
And he goes, no, no, Michael, no, we just we
just think he'd be the great father figure, because you know,

(16:14):
we needed the father to have a little edge. And
I go, oh, okay, I have a little edge. Yeah,
and and who's the guy Richard Donner, who was Richard
Donner's wife, Laura. Laura Laura's shue of Donner was the
associate producer on Free Willie. And I remember I asked her,

(16:37):
you know, because I went to meet everybody before they
did it, and I said, you know, I was talking
to Simon and I'm just kind of curious you don't
want to I'm so so curious that why you guys
have me as the father in the film. He goes, well,
what did he say? And I said, well, you know,
he told me that they wanted somebody with an edge.

(17:00):
And she goes, well, you certainly have that. And I
didn't know what the hell she was talking about. I said, really,
I started imagining, why do I have an edge? What
does that mean? I have an edge? And right away
I thought, well, it must be because of reservoir dogs. Right,

(17:21):
It's just because I did that thing with the cop
in the in the chair. And I said, so there's
nothing in there that's you didn't have me read, right,
And she goes, well, no, Michael, I said, no, I'm
not going to hurt Willie, am I? And she goes, no,
and I said, I don't want any bad scenes with
the kid. I don't want to hurt kids. And she goes, no, Michael,

(17:44):
my god, nothing like that's going to happen. And I said, okay,
all right, so this should be fun. Then I'll be
the good guy. I'll be the good father. Yeah. Oh yeah, truestory. Yeah,

(18:05):
so it was great.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I got to ask you a couple of questions. Sure
at that time you had to be considering all kinds
of offers.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Not really, okay, after res of Our Dogs, oh after that.
But you see, when Dogs came out, it was such
an independent film, and it wasn't really released in a
lot of theaters, and not a lot of people saw
it until Pulp Fiction came out. Right then, all of
a sudden, it Quentin's first movie became this thing that

(18:35):
everybody wanted to talk about Rest of Our Dogs, because
up to then it was just an independent film that
a few people thought it was pretty cool. In Sundance
and in Toronto and in a couple of different places,
people were talking about it, but it wasn't getting me
any work at all. It wasn't like that I was
pumping gas in Beverly Hills at the Union seventy six.

(18:57):
I mean, I was an episodic.

Speaker 7 (18:58):
TV actor, and uh I thought Dogs was interesting.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
But that's interesting for people watching the show to understand.
Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction two totally obviously different movies. Yeah, yeah,
two totally different characters for you. Yeah, two totally different
visions for Quintin.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:21):
And it's wild to think in the retrospect that he's
he's Quintin, right, he's a genius.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Well, nobody knew that then. I mean when I got
the script for that thing, they told me not to
do it. They said Reservoir Yeah. When I got Reservoir Dogs.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Your agent told you not to do it?

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, they told me that it was They said, listen,
nobody knows this guy, Quinton. Nobody's ever heard of him,
he's never made a film before. There's nobody in it,
and there's no money Michael, Okay, just so you know,
going in, nobody's getting paid and there's nobody in it.
And I was like, wow, I kind of like it.

(20:00):
Oh man, you know, I really like the writing. It's
I never read anything about like this. It's so cool,
you know, these guys.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
How wonderful is it that that instinct inside of you.
What if you'd listened right?

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Oh yeah, no, I often wonder that. And just to
make another comment about the whole thing, Uh, mister, well, god,
I don't know. If I gotta be careful on these things,
we can go ahead. Uh wanted Quentin to cut the
torture scene from Rest of Our Dogs. In fact, he
threatened him he was not going to release res of

(20:33):
Our Dogs unless they took out Michael Madson with the
ear cutting scene. Insisted that the movie would lose its
female audience with that scene, and Quentin, God bless him.
Quentin said, no, I put Michael in this movie. I
put him in that scene, and I'm going to leave
it in the movie.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
And you see, if he hadn't stood up for me
that way, who knows viding me sitting here talking to
I mean, I'd still be pumped, guess probably. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
But that's well, And that's what God bless him.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
I mean, you know he but that's the way he is,
and that's he stood up for me. He stood up
for his material. But here's this big shot, big wig
who was gonna just say I don't want that in there. Yeah,
I mean and he had the power. He had the
power to have done away with me. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (21:19):
So I could go on and on and on, Michael
about the films and the performances. I'm not blowing smoke.
I could really, you know, people love you because you're uh. Generationally,
a handful of actors comes along that are qualified. I'm
not trying to both smoke. I'm just oh, no, I
I I feel you know, but in your generation, you're
one of the one of the cats that you can

(21:41):
count on two hands. That's a that's a that's a blessing,
you know what I mean. Really respect that the fans have.
It's incredible, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (21:51):
So yeah, no, I I I appreciate it so much.
I mean, I I never know what to what. I
never know what to say about something like that.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
I was a big fan of of of Kirk Douglas
and and and Lee Marvin and Robert Mitcham and Burt
Lancaster and Spencer Tracy, Ernest Borgnine and William Holden. You
know these guys, man, they were to me, that's what
movies were, you know, for real guard And that's when

(22:26):
I wanted to do it. I wanted to be an
actor because I thought that I figured it out that well, Okay,
I can see what they're doing, and I'd see mitcham
in a in an interview and it would be so
much like somebody he played that I would think, well,
it must not be that difficult. You know, you're just

(22:47):
an extension of yourself. If you imagine your own self
in the situation of a character, the all you really
have to do is be.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yourself pretty much.

Speaker 1 (22:58):
And I thought, wow, that's the good way to make
a living, you know, it's got to be better than
pumping gas.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
Well, look, it gets back to that marathon Man Olivier story.

Speaker 1 (23:09):
Right, yeah, try acting? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think
it was nothing often right was Marathon Man was suffering
from the tooth thing or something.

Speaker 3 (23:19):
And.

Speaker 2 (23:21):
He had a scene the next morning where we're supposed
to stay up all night. He gets in the trailer, yeah,
and he's talking about it in makeup, and Olivier.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
Says, good, try acting.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
You know, one of these days, young man, you really
you should consider just acting.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
No, you know who's like that as al Pacino's like that.
I did Donny Bresco with al uh. I didn't want
to read for Donny Bresco because I'm a terrible, terrible,
cold reader. I'm the same I can't believe. I don't
know what it is, but I can't. I don't like
to be put in a position where I have to
prove something. You know. I get mad. I said, listen,

(23:55):
you guys, you guys know I can do this, And
so what's the point of making me read for it?
Because then I'm then I'm I'm not going to be
good your second guess, I'm not going to get the part.
So if I read for Donny Bresco, I'm not going
to get cast in the movie. So I'm not going
to read. And they passed me by and they weren't
going to do it, and they got another actor and uh.

(24:18):
And they tried to trick me a couple of times
into reading for it, but I didn't do it. And
then finally they said, okay, how do you feel about
meeting l And I said, oh, well he must have
casting approval and they go, well yes and no, and
I go no, no, no, yes, he obviously does. He said

(24:39):
well would you meet him? And I go, well, yeah,
of course, let meet him. Does I want to meet
al Pacino? I said, yeah, i'll meet him. I'll meet him.
And they said, well, we've got to fly you to
New York and I said, yeah, okay, yeah, So they
flew me to New York Man and these guys came
to the hotel and they had the lyric plugs in.

(24:59):
It was like me the President of the United States,
you know. They took me down a hallway and up
a stairway in in an elevator, and some guy named
Rocco picked me up, you know, and really it was
like a big thing to meet him. And yeah. As
we get there and there's a room with the door
and that he's in there, I'm like, wow, what do
I mean, Al's in there? I said, okay, why are

(25:22):
you telling me that he's in there waiting for you?
They're like, oh, you want me to go in there?
Like yeah, he's going there. He's in there. And I'm like, well, okay,
you know, and they're all standing there with their ear
plugs like looking at me, and I'm like, oh, for
Christ's sake. So I go over and I opened the

(25:44):
door and say okay, man, and then I walk in
and it's a little room like this and there's Al
with his back to me. And he's looking out the
window all right, and there's bookcases behind me in his desk,
and I'm like, wow, okay, he does say anything, So no,
I'm looking around for something to do. And I took
this book out from a bookshelf that was behind me,

(26:04):
and I started looking at the book, and all of
a sudden, I hear I like that book. And I
look over and I realized he can see my reflection
in the window that he's got his back to me,
and he can see me with the goddamn thing. He
liked that book. And I'm like, I go and I
don't even know what book it is, okay, you know.

(26:26):
And now he turns around and he goes, you like
the script. And I go, yeah, I like the script.
You read the book. I go, yeah, I read the book.
It's better than that book. Yeah yeah he did. And
he goes, h, anything about a script you don't like?
And I said, yeah, there's one thing you know in

(26:47):
the book, Uh, Sonny Black has birds. He keeps pigeons
on the roof, you know, like Terry in the waterfront.
You know, he's got the birds on the roof. He
was a ha ha, you don't get the parts like,
what do you mean? I get the birds, I get
the parts burden for me and I go okay, all right,

(27:08):
and he goes, you got a problem with that, and
I go, no, well I don't have a problem. Okay,
you can have the birds. Well I got him. I
got him. I go okay. It was like a thing
like you wanted to know.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
But I love it.

Speaker 1 (27:22):
And I said okay, great. So I'm standing there, you know,
and it's like good, like ten seconds, man, just nothing right.
And I'm thinking okay, and I go, well, is that it?
It is? Oh? Is that it? And I go, yeah,
is that it? Because I don't know, you don't know.

Speaker 3 (27:43):
He was.

Speaker 1 (27:45):
So awkward. It was so awkward. May yeah, I guess
that's it. And he didn't even answer me. And he
turns around again. He's looking out the window.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Do you think he was some character?

Speaker 1 (27:56):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (27:57):
He might have been a freaking case.

Speaker 1 (27:58):
I don't know. But I left and I and I
and I thought, okay, that's it, man, I'm not going
to be in this movie. And I went back to
the hotel and I got in my room and I
was sitting on the bed. They got well, you know,
I gotta go back to La and the phone ring
is my manager and he said, oh, you're doing Donny
Brasco just like that. And I never would have got
it if I had read for it. I probably would

(28:19):
never have even met l if I had read for it, right,
And there's no way you would have That's the way
it happened.

Speaker 2 (28:24):
You just went and had a conversation.

Speaker 1 (28:26):
About was about seven minutes. Yeah, that's all it was.

Speaker 2 (28:31):
I think he was in character, and I ain't the
way second, but I think listen to the first word.
You like the book like you liked that, Mike, you
know you like that book?

Speaker 3 (28:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (28:38):
I know it was very lefty. It was very lefty.
Is you know? It was very very very much the
way he did.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
That because you, in my sense of the story, because
you stayed you, you stayed you. You know what you
just did?

Speaker 3 (28:53):
You like?

Speaker 2 (28:54):
What do you want to do?

Speaker 5 (28:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (28:55):
It was there they said, come here.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
You don't even hel Patito. I mean what I gonna do?

Speaker 3 (28:58):
You know?

Speaker 1 (28:59):
I mean, you know you like that book? I yeah,
what book? I don't know what book it is. I
just took it off the thing, you know, I mean,
I didn't know what to talk about. The birds Man
you know, I got the birds.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
But that's the next observation. And you watch the movie.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
There's no birds of the movie. They never even gave
it to him. It's not even in the in the film.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
But that's my point of why I'm wondering. Was nobody
atter because you were saying something like, Mabe, if he
is listening to you in that room and he thinks
you're the character, he's gonna go I get the birds.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
No, no, sure, no, I get that. Yeah he was.
He was wonderful. We worked on a picture. I mean,
I probably never had a five minute conversation with Johnny Depp, right,
you know, Johnny's like, he's not even in the same
room with you.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Okay, can I can I say something now?

Speaker 1 (29:46):
But al Man he was every day. Al even showed
up and was off camera for me beautiful on days
when he wasn't even shooting.

Speaker 2 (29:53):
That's wonderful.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
He'd come in with a couple of coffee.

Speaker 7 (29:55):
Where's Madson? Where's Madson? I'm like, I'm over here. It's oh,
I'll be here. I'll be over here, And I.

Speaker 1 (30:00):
Say, okay, I wouldn't have to look at a light stand.
It was him, you know, I don't know. It's great respect.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
Are we ken edit this as you know? So? I
just I mean, can I talk about Johnny Depp?

Speaker 1 (30:12):
I don't get it. I mean, ever Scissor Hands is
I couldn't do that. Maybe I could, I'd be an
interesting Ever scissors Hands, I'd be I'd be really good.
You would you know. I would have made a great Batman,
but it just wasn't meant to happen. But when you
take Johnny and you put him in Donny Brasco, it
just didn't work for me. But there's no way that

(30:33):
guy would have been let in the family. I would
have bumped him off.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
As an actor with your process? Does it? And I
know the answer ready? But how's it gonna? How is
it when it hits you that like, oh, I'm in
a movie. We just did a table read. I have
scenes with that person and they're not very good. Not Johnny.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
I just mean, well, what's happened to me before? It's
happened a lot of times. It's it's it's tough, but
you got to ask yourself, look at how lucky am
I to be in this? I'm in it, and I'm
I'm lucky to be in it. And that guy is
going to be that. Okay, then I have to make
it work somehow. You know, it doesn't. This doesn't work
for me. But I'm not the one who's putting up

(31:15):
the money for this. I didn't write it. You know,
I'm not directing it. I just have to be this
other guy. And you have to deal with it, Steven,
you know what I mean. You know, you just have
to do it now.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
I'm going there. So with Depp, was there any moments
with Depp where you were performing opposite him and you went.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
Oh, this guy's terrible. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (31:37):
Yeah, I was trying to I was trying to sugarcoat
that was terrible.

Speaker 1 (31:41):
It was just boring. It was like lifeless. It was
a lifelessness to it that I couldn't comprehend. It made
no sense to me. You know, I'd see Bruno Kirby
pouring Johnny's cheerios, you know, in his trailer, there's Bruno
pouring cheerios for Johnny.

Speaker 2 (31:58):
Why was he doing some method thing?

Speaker 1 (32:03):
No, they were just hanging out, I guess, but it
was just it was the something happened to me and
Johnny in the in the viper room. As a matter
of fact, I'd like to tell the truth of the
story if I could. But I went to see after
Donny Bresco. I had went to the Viper Room one
night and al Pacino was there actually, and there was

(32:23):
some band playing or something. But I knew Johnny owned
the Viper Room, right, and so whatever, you know, he's there,
and you know we were never friendly to each other
on the movie. Well it's something weird. There's a whole
other thing happened that I could tell about. But the
bad guys, the real guys, set me in Johnny up.
One time. They did a really mean thing to Johnny.

(32:45):
And they put a big rubber.

Speaker 7 (32:46):
Rat in a room that had a battery in it
that made it move in a big rat trap, and
they made me push Johnny in the room and they
closed the door and locked him in there with the rat.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
And when he came out, he was white faced. And
they said, that's because you're a rat in the movie.
You play a rat, you see it. But it was
all in good humor. You know, they weren't going to
beat us up or kill us, but they were letting
us know, you're playing us guys. This'll be real about it.
You know what I'm saying. But after that day, Johnny

(33:21):
didn't want to have anything to do with me because
he thought I had befriended them in the rat trick thing.
But anyway, we're at the viper room and these two guys.
Was one guy, he starts nudging me at the bar. Right. Oh,
so you're you know in this movie with Johnny and
that kind of thing. You know, it's probably happened to
you before. And You're like, no, man, you know, I

(33:43):
don't know you, and yeah, I'm in the ficture, so what.
But it became an aggressive thing, and I was like, okay, man,
I don't want to get in a fight in here.
And so I'm in the bathroom and someone comes in
in the bathroom and the lights went out the bathroom
room and I'm like, oh, man, but I was in
the stall, not at the urinal. I'm in a stall

(34:06):
and the bamness the stall door like hits me, you know,
And I turned around and told darkness, and somebody hit
me right in the face and I fell back against
the toilet and it ruptured the glass tank on the
back of the toilet, porcelain tank, and all the water
came rushing out. And I got up and I came
through the door and this other guy was there, and

(34:27):
it was the one that was being a jerk at
the bar, and I smell I got a really good
punch right in a mug and he fell back against
the paper towel thing and he hit it so hard
that it came off the wall, all right, And just
then Al comes in the bathroom. Yeah, my little bread No.

(34:47):
He comes in and he's like, oh, and this poor
guy bounce off the wall and all the waters rushing
through from the broken toilet. And I'm standing there and
I was looking at me, and the two of them
run out, and I'm and I'm looking at that Al.
He goes oh, and I go, yeah, man, what the
And I walk out of the bathroom and I go
back over to the bar. It's really crowded and I'm
looking for these apps anywhere nowhere round and all of

(35:10):
a sudden, this big bouncer comes over. He's a big guy, man,
and he said you gotta go, and I said, okay, man,
and so I I slowly, you know, went out. But
I was trying to explain. These guys came in the
bathroom and they me up and what was that all about?
You know, the guy who asked me to leave. He said,
Johnny wants me to tell you that he thought you
loved him, and I'll never forget that. I said, well,

(35:33):
I don't know what what does that mean? What did
that mean? I don't know what that meant? Right coming
from Johnny and then come over from and then and
the next day I got his agency calling my agent saying,
Michael Matson made a big problem in the viper room
last night. He broke the toilet.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Listen, I don't think Mike Madson's going to miss the
viper room very much. No.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
I never went back there. I never went back.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Can the skin off Mike Madson's I?

Speaker 1 (36:02):
I just I tried to explain the fact that I
didn't break the toilet. Uh and uh I wouldn't have
done that.

Speaker 2 (36:08):
But you know it's weirder. Here's a here's a guy
who's a fellow actor, he owns a club. He could
have just called you. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yea, hey man,
you know, first of all, second of all, heard your
side of the story.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah. No, here I am putting him down for his
performance in Donny Brasco.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
He's been asking he's been.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Great and other stuff. God bless him, but he didn't.
And Donnie, I thought you he's lucky. Al was underplaying Lefty.
That's all I can say.

Speaker 2 (36:46):
Free Willie, Yeah, why me? So you go from playing
certain characters. You ask the director in Free Willy, why
did you cast me as the dad? They say, we
were looking for a dad with an.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Edge, who wanted someone with an edge.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
So when you're making Free Willie, yep?

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Is it all kind of case? Sarah Sarah, and you're
just it's a it's a fun, lighter, cushy job, and
you're just shut up and don't walk into the funiture,
furniture and know your lines.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
I remember Lauren Schuler Donner. We were in Lauren Schuler
Donner's trailer watching OJ in the White Bronco because that's
when that happened while I was shooting Free Willy. Right,
it might have been Free Willy too. It was one
of those whale movies when that happened. Because she came
on the set and she goes, oh my god, oh

(37:43):
my god, you got to see this, and they stopped,
they stopped rolling, they stopped shooting to go and sit
in her trailer and watch oj in the Bronco for
like two hours.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
I was just gonna say, I mean, you know, tying
three WILLI is beyond genius.

Speaker 1 (37:59):
But that's what happened.

Speaker 3 (38:00):
Anyway.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
I had a good I had a good time on
Willie I had. In the first movie, they were real whales.
In the second one they were animatronic robots. Yeah, because
we couldn't use real whales in the second picture because
the people that you know it all rights people got
really upset about the first picture.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
In the first one, though, that's real, actual whales, and
Keiko was was a real whale, and you know, I
was in the in the water with the damn thing.
But in the second one they're all robots. They're rubber robots.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
But in the first one, yeah, when you started Free Willy,
you're playing it's like a different character. Free but just
just indulge me. So you're in the is there any
moment I'm trying to be Mike Madson for a minute.
I'm in the water with orcas I'm in Free Willy
the first one. I'm floating around going, man, this isn't
the hate late, you.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Know, No, I was fascinating to me. I was I
am a father.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
It did inevitably come something you enjoyed. You had fun
of it.

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Oh, yeah I did. Yeah, I liked to be in
the I thought that would help me to get more
roles like that, because I thought I was getting pigeonholed
mister blond and I thought this is going to balance
things out for me a little bit. Maybe I'll get
some more you know, sympathetic parts if I'm the dad
in this thing. And uh, yeah, no, I was happy

(39:19):
with it. I was glad to be That's why I
did the second one. But I didn't do really three though.
They didn't have enough money to get me in the
third one. You know, by the end of the story
was over.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
Were you shocked at like how huge of it hit?
The first one was?

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Ah? I thought it was a good picture. I mean
I've seen it again recently and it holds up. I
mean it's a good picture. It really is. It's one
of those rare movies that it's as good now as
it was when it came out. It really it really is.
I was lucky to be in it. I love Laurence
sul she was wonderful to me. And Simon Winsor everybody

(39:56):
was a good experience. I don't remember anything negative happening picture.

Speaker 4 (40:01):
I will say I think part of the reason it
still holds up is because they grounded it, And I
think that's probably why they cast you when they said
they had edge, it was like you you bring a
certain groundedness. Because I rewatched this a couple of times
now with my kid. There's not a scene that you're
in where it doesn't feel real.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
No, I'm proud of it, man. It's one of the
one of the one of the ones I can look
back and say, yeah, I did a good job.

Speaker 4 (40:22):
There's even in the scene where they're transporting the whale. Yeah,
there's this line that I'm like, in the hands of
any other actor, it would be ridiculous. It's like, what
are you doing? Why do you see in my truck?
And what are you doing with this whale? And like
with you, it's completely believable, but it would be a
ridiculous moment with anybody else.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
I feel like, no, I'm not an actor, man. I
I've often wondered about that kind of thing. I think
I just uh, I never I didn't understand the status
Slavsky method thing. I didn't understand what it was supposed
to be. Because if you're supposed to tend that you

(41:01):
have a boiling hot cup of coffee in your hand,
why don't you just give me a bullying a cup
of coffee and then I'll play the moment because the
goddamn thing he's gonna burn me. You know what I'm saying.
Why should I pretended that? It didn't make any sense
to me? It just seems so stupid to me because
I didn't. I was so afraid of being obvious that

(41:22):
I never wanted to pretend anything. It had him be
be truthful to me, or else I would feel really
bad about myself.

Speaker 2 (41:28):
I got one different off the topic question, and then
I got a peek.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
We'll go ahead. I gotta go. You know what, even
Alex go Oh, well, god damn it. Any minute.

Speaker 2 (41:37):
He just finished a conference call. Okay, we're gonna take
a pee break, talk to him and you're out.

Speaker 1 (41:42):
Okay, Okay, don't shoot.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Here's a deal.

Speaker 1 (41:44):
No, I'm fine with you, brother, don't worry. You can
have No It's okay that I can. No, I won't.
I'll just I can remind him of a few things.
We'll see how he is.

Speaker 3 (41:57):
Man.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
I can I know him.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
An amazing thing you said earlier about the acting was
you know, like, well, you know, I saw Mitchem in
an interview and he was like still almost the same guy.
And yeah, I just want to again, Michael, I'm not
blowing smoke. I'm not going to say things that I
think are a waste of time. Your ability to not
have trained like a lot of others, and to have
figured that out to literally on your own, in your

(42:24):
own common sense, just to go O, ways I could
have two and two is four and give me the
real cup of coffee, and it's amazing. I'm different than that.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
I worked with Chris Penn, God rest his soul, you know.
I was working with them ones and he goes like this,
we're rehearsing. I put the pen. I put the you know,
the the weapon, the wallet to this. We're talking and
I go action. You know, we were doing rehearsal. And
I go, right, Charlie, I'll meet you down at four o'clock.
I put the pen, I do all the same moves.
We rehearsal three times. I put the props back. We
do it the same way. I just that's kind of
a way I do it with certain stuff. He turns around,

(42:53):
he goes, gosh, I don't eye you, Joy.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
You remind me a.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Shot who cares the man and the nuality just like
I'm saying, they're going. It was like one of the
nicest compliments you ever gonna give you.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
You know, I love Chris Man. Chris, we had a
lot of drinking together. Oh yeah, we were dangerous together.
So in your generation, I miss him very much.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
I missed him a lot too.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
I get two pictures of him.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
He's the only person to get her out drink me
and I'll say so when you get to heaven, Chris,
God bless you man. True man.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
But you you mentioned guys like Mitcham the list of
actors you mentioned like twenty minutes ago. Yeah, a lot
of young people today, Michael, they're not I know the name.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
I know.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
It's disturbing.

Speaker 2 (43:39):
And that's why it's great you set him.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
That's one of the reasons I'm sitting here with you, right.
I a great You know, I watched you man and
Billy and your and Alec and Daniel. For Christ's sake,
you know, in the nineties, man, I knew all you guys.
I mean, there isn't anybody anymore? Steven. Let's he's it.
They're gone. It's over for Nicholson, he's retired. You know,
Clint is one hundred years old. What are we gonna do, Steven?

(44:04):
I mean, there's no.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
Who is pray? All we can do is there's nobody
left kind of sort of it's faid to build titting
quick question in your generation? So now I want to know,
like Mickey Rourke, who are the guys?

Speaker 1 (44:22):
Mickey's good? I like Mickey, but who are your heroes?

Speaker 2 (44:26):
Not the generation, the Mickey generation? Who are the guys?
Willem Dafoe? Is there any other great in the Fall?

Speaker 3 (44:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (44:34):
Who's stuff did you like?

Speaker 1 (44:35):
Who was the guy who was in Platoma? Charlie with
a face messed up.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
In a U?

Speaker 1 (44:42):
Tom Berenger, Tom Barringer, brilliant, Tom Berenger, Man, Tom Behringer,
Mickey Rourke, what's his name? Aiden Quinn? Was good man? Whatever?
Whatever happened to crossing Jimmy Russell.

Speaker 2 (44:59):
I just told these guys it is when we get
up on the show.

Speaker 1 (45:01):
Adrian Brody, Yes, we should have Adrian on the show,
you know, I mean it's just wow, there's so few
of them.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
Yeah, but you can select a few, definitely, I hear
what you're saying. But even older than Brody, Eric Roberts,
now he had some great performances. Star eighty was pretty hot, Yeah,
Papa Greenwage Village was pretty yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
Yeah, yeah, you know all those guys. Denzel Washington was great,
you know in his early, early early stuff. You know,
he was going to go somewhere. You know, there's so
few of them.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
I agree, And the worst part is, listen, I came up,
I did last night to Brooklyn. I came up and
got very blessed to be involved in a couple of
cool usual suspects. You know, I was lucky to be
in it, Like you said, you know some pictures, you're
just blessed to be in it for the opportunity. Yeah,
you know, but I've seen guys and I'm not gonna
name names like you said, but just there's guys that
were in my generation who have gone on to have

(45:53):
great success, Guys who were not supposed to be big stars.
A list, guys who are guys who I thought the
wore never going to become that big.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
Yeah, but there were people that stuck out that stayed
in your mind like you and like your fucking brothers.
A great actor. Josh, I'm Josh Brolin. You know, I'm
glad you brought him up. I just saw him the
other day the market in Melville. Oh that's I had
never met him, and there he was and I said
I to him, he said I to me. I was like, wow, hey, man,
I always wanted to meet him. I thought it was

(46:22):
great in the old country for bad country, you know, Yeah, no, no,
he's yeah, for sure, I'm glad you brought him up.
Certain people have a certain sort of screen presence, and
that's the thing that there isn't anymore. There's that thing
you don't know, what is that thing? You know you're

(46:43):
so absolutely spot on correct anymore? Man, it just really isn't.

Speaker 2 (46:49):
There's a force and a power that comes with a
confidence of presence and acting when you know really what
you're doing in your even if you're doing it wrong.
But now, like you said, I listen the last twenty
years the people that have played Spider Man. Now, the people,
these young, skinny, wafy guys playing these ass kicking superhero.

Speaker 1 (47:09):
I don't get it. I don't know. I think it's
a Oh man, I gotta be careful, and you know
I gotta keep working.

Speaker 2 (47:19):
Hey free Willy for Michael Madson. Speak your mind, baby.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
Well I didn't break the toilet in the Viber room
on purpose.

Speaker 2 (47:31):
I gotta be I'm coming back.

Speaker 7 (47:38):
Oh man, I can tell some stories that would be
really bizarrely saying I can get into so much trouble.

Speaker 3 (47:44):
Man.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
I've seen some things, man, that are just unbelievable, such
as oh god, Man, I don't know, so it's kind of.

Speaker 4 (47:59):
Can can I ask, like, what do you think your
best performance is? Do you do you ever look back
at your performance and say, man, I was really in
the zone.

Speaker 1 (48:06):
I did a picture called Strength and Honor. I played
an Irish American prize fighter, and I think probably the
best I ever did.

Speaker 4 (48:17):
Strength and Honor.

Speaker 1 (48:18):
Strength and Honor, Yes, Irish American Prize Fighter. It's a
story about my son. My son is gonna uh okay
and I have to fight to save my son's life.
And then never got any distribution, never came out.

Speaker 4 (48:34):
It never came out.

Speaker 1 (48:35):
No to me and Vinnie Jones. It's a great boxing picture.
I stopped smoking, I stopped drinking. I trained for three months.
I was supposed to be a prize fighter and we
shot the movie in Ireland. I had like five or
six fights, like professional fights, and I had to fight
Vinnie Jones at the end of the movie, a big dude. Yeah,

(48:58):
Vinnie's a big dude. It's scary guy. I'm glad he
did it because he I needed to be afraid of
that person to make it work. But that movie never came.

Speaker 4 (49:07):
Out, so it's just still sitting on the shelf, buried.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
He buried the print of it and can't film festival.

Speaker 4 (49:14):
Wow, mm hmmm, So is there there's no there's no
way to access it. There's no way too.

Speaker 1 (49:21):
The thing is, once a picture is passed, it's time.
You can't re get it and re put it back
to the world. It doesn't work that way. If it
was a big movie, you can go Big Body and Clyde.
They could re release it tomorrow and it probably do
get great but strengthened honor. It's over. No one's ever
heard of it, no one ever saw it. They released

(49:43):
it on video in the UK, which nobody even rented it.

Speaker 4 (49:50):
So there, so there are copies out there. I just
I just need Yeah, it's out there, man, you can
find it. I want to get it.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
Yeah, I love strength and honor. I thought it was
a great boxing film. There's no swearing, there's no cigarettes.
You know, it's a father son's story. I kill a
guy in a ring in an amateur fight, and I
tell my family that I'm never gonna fight again because
I'm so I feel so bad about killing this guy.

(50:18):
And then I find out my son needs a heart
surgery and there's a great big fight that that's a
bare knuckle fight that they actually do in Ireland and
it's a real thing that happens. And the prize money
to win the bare knuckle is two hundred and fifty
thousand dollars and that's what I need to get to
the operation for my son.

Speaker 4 (50:39):
And that's when you quit smoking. Was for that role,
and you stop smoking since then?

Speaker 1 (50:43):
No, no, after that, I was back on everything.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
So after a few months, did you feel different, like
having gone through the boxing training just like in your
day to day did you feel like how different did
it feel?

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Depressed? Didn't come out. I got really shattered and really
depressed that it never came out. It really really ruined me.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
I hope people listening can rediscover this, this movie out
there because I know I want to see it tonight.
Can I just ask you a few more questions about
Free Willy and stuff?

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Go ahead?

Speaker 4 (51:14):
So did you read the script or were you aware of,
like what the original version of the script was, how
the main kid was mute and he lived with nuns
and all that work. Was that not on your radar?

Speaker 1 (51:23):
O Free Willy?

Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (51:24):
I read the original script then I didn't. Ever, there
was nothing about him being with any nuns.

Speaker 4 (51:29):
God that I remember that could be internet conjectured.

Speaker 1 (51:31):
Then, I know it was a lot simpler than that.
I mean, the script that I read was what we shot.
That kid didn't want to be that kid. Jason did
not want to be in the movie. Really, he didn't
want to be the kid in the whale movie. Wow.
You know, he would say all the time. He was
just miserable. Wow. Let's say you're in the go buddy,
you're going to be like this big thing. You're going

(51:53):
to be the most famous kid actor in the world
when this comes out. Don't you realize that? And He's like, Oh,
I just I don't want to be I hate this, Michael,
I don't want to be the Whale kid me. You know,
I didn't notice that he wanted to be a guitar player.
He wanted to be a musician, and he was obsessed
with it. And you know, he could have been you know,

(52:16):
huge if you would have taken advantage of it. But
he didn't want to be an actor. It wasn't his thing.
Now I think he's realizing it of what he could
have done or what could have happened, but it's too late.

Speaker 4 (52:28):
I think he moved kind of behind the camera, right
he was doing producing or like.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
I don't know what.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
I don't know what he's doing. I don't know. We
never really stayed in touch.

Speaker 4 (52:34):
When you saw the poster work. Was anyone surprised that
everything about the movie gave the ending away?

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Well? Yeah, but but but back then, nobody realized that
it was giving it away. You know, it's just a
whale jumping through the air with the kid. Nobody knew
that was going to happen. It was a big thing, man.
It was a big, happy, happy family movie.

Speaker 4 (52:54):
I mean, I think it was second behind Jurassic Park
that year, which.

Speaker 1 (52:58):
Like to the cry when they see that, goddamn ye.

Speaker 4 (53:01):
My daughter loves it now. She was drawing an orca
this morning before I left.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
I swear I did a lot of stuff in that movie.
That's me driving the truck to the fence. That's me
driving the truck. When the whales on the trailer. Wow,
that's me backing it into the water. I did all
that stuff in all the tot truck stuff was was
actually me driving.

Speaker 4 (53:22):
And you knew how to do that just because you
were mechanical and.

Speaker 1 (53:25):
Yeah, I d truck. Chicago. To me, it was like, oh, yeah,
it's a great truck. That is a beautiful truck.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
Well part of Chicago did you grow up in?

Speaker 1 (53:34):
I was right in the city, like by Wrigley Field.
You bring it, you know. My father was a firefighter
at Chicago, and I went to I went to a
Steppenwell theater. Uh acting school for about two days in Chicago,
and uh, I was playing baseball and I was building

(53:55):
a quarter mile drag cars. I want to be Richard Petty.
That was my thing, being a movie actor.

Speaker 4 (54:01):
At what point did that change for you?

Speaker 1 (54:03):
Though? That's a long story.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Right now. Oh good, Literally I just talked to him.

Speaker 4 (54:09):
Okay, cool on Free Willie too. Did anyone talk about
how the message of the movie kind of negated the
whole message of the first one, because like the whole
point was, whales shouldn't be captured and confined. They let
him out and then in part two he's at dying.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
I only did the second one because they paid me
a lot of money. You know, that's the God's truth.
You know what I mean? Honestly, you know what happened
to the real whale. They tried to set the thing free,
and they towed it behind a freek it find forget me.
The goddamn thing escaped and they got a virus from
the ocean that killed it. You know, So what's the
big thing? Let's set it free? Well, hey, man, it

(54:47):
might have worked in the movie. In real life, it
didn't happen that way. Where did you get all these
little posters?

Speaker 2 (54:57):
You should get the goud on myself, bro, you should
get the false ones.

Speaker 1 (55:01):
I love movie posters, man, I'm obsessed with him. I
probably had about one hundred of them. My house burned
down in Malibu. My house in Malibou burned down in
twenty eighteen, and I lost all my posters. I had
so many, man, I probably had forty or fifty. I
had some good ones. I had a good couple hundred
grand worth. Yeah. Wow, they're all burned up in my house.

(55:23):
I had a junior bonner that Quentin gave me, was
an Italian junior bonner poster. Oh yeah, are we waiting
for somebody?

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Yeah, we got him. We're just dialing them in right now.
Can you hear me, buddy, hear me. We can hear you, sir.

Speaker 1 (55:38):
Hey, Alec, it's rudy. I'm telling your brothers some stories these.

Speaker 5 (55:50):
Movies, and I think no one's ever going to be
able to play that.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
Part, you know, probably not. Yeah, he was so good,
you know, I just wanted to I was. I thought
that al al the terry. I thought he was so good.
I wanted to be you know, I mean, who's going
to do that? Nobody can do that, you know, fantastic.
No thanks, Alex, but you know yeah, but I had

(56:14):
you there with me, so it made it easy. No, Alec,
come on, you were great and that thing, you know,
you were man. You know you did a good job
in that, Alex. You're you're handsome and you got the
charisma of it. You pulled it off.

Speaker 5 (56:29):
Right now, this month of April, that's thirty years ago.

Speaker 3 (56:33):
Ninety four.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
That's scary. Man, that's that's scary. Well, yeah, I'm fine.
I'm uh, he looks great, man. I'm just trying to
stay employed.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
You know.

Speaker 5 (56:44):
I tell my brother Steve, and I said, that was
one of the funniest experiences I've ever had.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
We had a good time man down there.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Yeah, tough, tough sun and it was dry. But I
think we went down one time over the border.

Speaker 5 (57:03):
Yeah, we went over the border, just over the border
from Mexico.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
It was one hundred and twenty six degrees one day.

Speaker 1 (57:09):
Yeah, yeah, it.

Speaker 3 (57:11):
Was really really hot.

Speaker 5 (57:12):
My favorite moment I told Stephen was they were there.

Speaker 3 (57:17):
None of us wants to go to work, you know,
we got wrapped around.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
I wanted to stay in the pool.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
You were in the pool.

Speaker 6 (57:24):
I don't need any other names, but just you, me
and a bunch of special guest stars in the pool.

Speaker 1 (57:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (57:30):
And we're there, and you're laying in.

Speaker 5 (57:32):
The corner like a boxer in a boxing ring.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
The right corner.

Speaker 5 (57:37):
You got a bunch of dead soldiers around, a bunch
of beer bottles and half eaten club sandwiches and this
and that, and I was sitting there and the phone rings,
and they got an old school.

Speaker 6 (57:49):
Regular telephone on a little hook on the side of
the yeah, yeah, yeah there, And I run up there
and I picked up the phone and you.

Speaker 3 (57:57):
Look at me and go Elick like, tell him I'm
not here. Tell him I'm not here, Alex, and I'm
doing my best Chicago accent, and they go. I go,
and I picked up the phone.

Speaker 6 (58:09):
And I go hello, and on the other end, they're going,
is mister Michael Madison there? And I go, mister Michael Mason,
Michael Maseon like, no, Michael Madson, I'm sorry. I am
so sorrry. He's not here, Michael Mason, I'm not here.

Speaker 3 (58:28):
And You're sitting there trying not to laugh, and I'm.

Speaker 6 (58:31):
Going, no, I'm so sorry. I go, is a mister
Michael Mason here? And everyone's quiet, and I go, no,
I'm so sorry.

Speaker 3 (58:37):
He's not here.

Speaker 6 (58:38):
Misters No, it's Madson Madison And I hang up and You're.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
Like, God, damn it, Alec, You're the funniest mother.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
I could have. Are you trying to figure out why
you decided to use an X accident?

Speaker 3 (58:51):
I mean, the good news is we didn't have to
go back to work that day.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
No, no, he says it. Oh God, we were we
were done at the pool. Those are good times. Man.
You remember when you saw Rudy in the hallway in
the in the motel, in the hotel, Yes, you remember
what I did? Yes, he just answered, And good enough,

(59:19):
though I was, you know, I did want to say
one thing. Remember when I teached you about doing the
hand over the behind the gun and you said you
weren't going to do it because you were mad because
I kept teasing you about Steve. But then you actually
did it. You did the hand thing behind the gun,
and I loved you that day when you did that.
I thought it was pretty cool. It's still in the movie.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:41):
My my favorite one was We're in the town square.

Speaker 5 (59:45):
It was like a little village with a square and
the first ding he comes up and says, could you
go get Mike.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
We gotta have Mike. You know where he is? Oh, yeah,
he's in that bar right over there.

Speaker 5 (59:54):
And I walked into this giant Adobie building, this big
white cathedral.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
Yeah, is a bar to the left.

Speaker 5 (01:00:01):
There's all these tables with the chairs put up, and
there you were coming back from the bathroom, and I
know you're in there, and you're coming back from the
bathroom and a woman has taken your seat, and you
say to the woman, you're not drunk, but you're you're
a little happy, and no, I probably was drunk. Your
seat and the woman took your seat and you told
her to get up and give her back to your seat,

(01:00:21):
and she wouldn't, and you let out one of my favorite.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Yells I've ever heard, really loud. You yelled out, you
need to be.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
You know it probably made a lot of sense at
the time, you know, But did she get up there?

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
Alick, are you okay? And I go, yeah, what He goes,
you're in a bar?

Speaker 6 (01:00:44):
I go, yeah, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:00:45):
He goes, you're in a bar, Alex, are you okay?
I said, yes? Why are you asking? He said, because
you don't drink.

Speaker 5 (01:00:51):
You're in a age you don't drink, and you're in
a bar.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
Tweet your out, you're freaked out.

Speaker 1 (01:00:56):
You remember the day you left, Remember when you left
when we were having a fighting.

Speaker 5 (01:01:00):
I remember every moment from thirty years ago, but I
don't remember yesterday.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
I I I have that feeling. I'm the same way.
I don't remember saying that to that woman. But but
did she get up?

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Did she get up Alec, did she give.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
Me my chair back? I must have ran into her.

Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
Later they told all the stories you used to get.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
You used to get very mad at me because Kim
was always talking to me. And I remember one day
I heard you because you didn't realize I was on
the other side of the wall, and you were saying,
stop talking to Madson, stop talking to Madson, and and
Kim was all sweet, and she said, oh, you know,
I like Michael. You know he's a really nice guy.

(01:01:49):
And you're like, no, you don't understand. He's the bad
guy in the movie. You know, you had to stop
chatting him up, you know, stop talking to Madson.

Speaker 5 (01:01:59):
Take your hand has out of Madimsand no.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
It wasn't. That didn't happen until later. Oh, Alex Man's
a lot of times, Stephen.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
I gotta go because I gotta go to the show now.
But let me just say one last thing real quickly.
Please everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
You always get the last word. I remember that about you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Everybody's memories aside.

Speaker 5 (01:02:22):
I want to say to you, Michael, I really mean
that you're one of the greatest movie actors of all time.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
Hey right he is?

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Oh God, Alic, thank you much.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
I don't think anybody else could have got away with you,
and they get away except you.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
Nobody like you never will be. I don't care if
you tried to.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Bless you, Hey, God bless you be Bad movie. Hang
in there, brother, Thank you bro, brother.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
But that's what I was saying earlier. The respect you
have commanded as a result of your commitment to this
craft is handlon.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
I'm not gonna I'm just telling you and thank you
for coming on One Bad Movie. Appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:03:04):
Hey, it's my pleasure to be here, Stephen. And I'm
here because I love you, because I watch you and
you're acting.

Speaker 7 (01:03:10):
You know, at the same time. We went up in
this business together and here we are. We're still together
and we're making jokes, laughing. It's gotta be worth something, mate.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Yep.

Speaker 8 (01:03:20):
Fifty years from now, nobody's gonna give it. But right now, hey,
we're still here. Yeah, and then we got a long
way to go. God bless you, brother, Yeah, brother, thank you,
Thank you. That about wraps it up here on One
Bad Movie. Thank you, Michael Manson. And be sure you
can catch the Christmas Crash at all of your digital
download opportunities and please forgive me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:45):
And of course Free Willie stands on its own. You
can just just google Free Willie. The movie will pop
upright in front of you. Michael Madison, Thank you, Sir

Speaker 1 (01:04:00):
Kilden